03:40:57 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 03:40:57 03:40:57 -!- names: ccl-logbot bunt ikki rme k4jd095b_ spradnyesh sepult` jan247 HET3 sellout fe[nl]ix synthasee gigamonkey Sergio` ekpneo rodt2 kejsaren_ hadronzoo Tordek jao ikonia fusss redline6561 cmeow spcartman Fade parolang xenosoz1 porcelina c|mell legumbre billstclair konr bizarrefish saikat Anarch adu rread mbohun bipt sbahra ichernetsky dto maden_ arbscht dfox ltriant potatishandlarn Jasko fatblueduck derrida Xantoz drwho plutonas Krystof Phoodus ace4016 moocow 03:40:57 -!- names: oconnore_ xan-afk _rata_ mathrick m4thrick borkamaniac daniel__ araujo Fare marioxcc gruseom foom kpreid koning_robot rotty rootzlevel Makoryu spacebat lisppaste abeaumont vsync kwinz3 rrice Soulman__ antoszka madnificent adeht holycow Harag nowhere_man blitz_ dmiles_afk rbancroft lharc trebor_dki Oddity goosemo gz Dodek nipra luis xinming lpolzer__ wgl AntiSpamMeta varjag Xof Guest95631 smithzv_ Ralith_ Draggor cmm spoofy Taggnostr Yamazaki-kun 03:40:57 -!- names: alexsuraci pr kleppari ASau``` joast BrianRice Axioplase_ Pepe_ hicx174 kajic Elench tychoish fda314925 fihi09 moshisushi pchrist sobersabre mle nickjd Lycurgus Xach AqD|Home sykopomp nullman boyscared ``Erik yahooooo austinh bdowning ironChicken stepnem pkhuong codemonkeyx prip djinni` rapacity eno fgtech christoph_debian rahul drewc emma snorble anekos sepisultrum WOG turbo24prg frodef Adrinael nyef yacin pookleblinky pragma_ blast_hardcheese joga 03:40:57 -!- names: clog lukjad86 slyrus bytecolor cataska specbot ramus Amadiro rlonstein Zhivago clop hypno sytse TDT _3b` tltstc dalkvist easyE Madsy beach Stattrav DrForr mikezor deepfire Tabmow koollman lnostdal p_l REPLeffect spiaggia p8m [df] Buganini G0SUB tic hdurer_ randa pok johs felipe setheus slather_ tmdhat bfein PuffTheMagic Guest37097 lemoinem cpt_nemo lichtblau Patzy jroes zbigniew adlai_ df_aldur_ mtd Orest^bnc froydnj Ginei_Morioka scode hohum ski housel 03:40:57 -!- names: BeZerk ecraven antifuchs tmitt minion kvsari stettberger Borbus franki^ slyrus_ Tristam mornfall Tril Helheim krappie dostoyevsky gonzojive _bakkdoor eldragon Demosthenes _3b guaqua djm cods Khisanth Holcxjo kuwabara srcerer dcrawford PissedNumlock KatrinaTheLamia qebab thijso kami schme ve Raptelan kom_ jyujin hc_e rikjasnon fnordus rsynnott egn jsnell dejones reb Aisling nuba jrockway dym borisc bjorkintosh l_a_m retupmoca ineiros z0d tvaalen 03:40:57 -!- names: timchen1` tomaw ennen kencausey nicktastic fmu herbieB 20:48:38 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 20:48:38 20:48:38 -!- names: ccl-logbot puchacz kwinz3_ prip quidnunc balooga drwho schmx mstevens PuffTheMagic_ wormwood mjonsson cmatei HET3 udzinari pdponze seangrove kejsaren leifw Draggor enthymeme RaceCondition Nshag ve nixeagle Deesl Zephyrus astoon toekutr daniel slyrus snearch Taggnostr dnolen HET2 xenosoz1 lisppaste bzzbzz kzar tcr lhz chittoor l0stman timor1 eldragon LiamH marioxcc sepult nipra potatishandlarn dreish ace4016 ASau grouzen mattrepl carlocci Guest51763 c|mell 20:48:38 -!- names: bgs100 legumbre rares redline6561 dlowe fe[nl]ix Guthur Odin- mega1 rayservers adeht sellout attila_lendvai johs plutonas nha Yuuhi pavelludiq freiksenet morphling pragma_ etate beach ichernetsky mrSpec cmm benny nowhereman abend sbahra Tordek konr stassats` JuanDaugherty AntiSpamMeta bizarrefish stokachu mbohun Yamazaki-kun billstclair Jasko Adamant nicolai dmiles_afk cddr maden kuwabara porcelina jao mikezor kencausey Oddity rsynnott oconnore_ 20:48:38 -!- names: Ginei_Morioka BrianRice fda314925 xinming pchrist tompa Dodek yahooooo fgtech Drakeson blast_hardcheese tltstc hypno Phoodus dto Ralith OsamaBinWOG hicx174 BeZerk Krystof sjbach cods mooglenorph Harag dostoyevsky delYsid sykopomp pjb amaron hc_e spiaggia froydnj Madsy rootzlevel m4thrick djinni` slather setheus [df] wgl bakkdoor gonzojive jrockway _3b deepfire REPLeffect lemoinem bdowning reb` Khisanth ineiros Xof ski kom__ fnordus easyE eno codemonk1yx 20:48:38 -!- names: joast drewc z0d Aisling zbigniew ennen lukjad86 idurand tsuru pkhuong yacin dejones rikjasnon timchen1` nuba KatrinaTheLamia djm guaqua krappie franki^ jroes Patzy pok hdurer_ p_l sepisultrum rapacity ironChicken tychoish blitz_ rotty foom cpt_nemo stettberger kajic tomaw nicktastic herbieB Trystam Holcxjo ``Erik tmdhat Adrinael mornfall ecraven emma mtd lonstein Soulmann srcerer dalkvist araujo hsaliak df_aldur _3b`` turbo24p1g arbscht_ Borbus borisc_ 20:48:38 -!- names: Helheim phadthai Zhivago koollman Amadiro randa l_a_m mgr_ p8m dym_ jyujin_ sytse rahul Axioplase_ Xach joga felipe hacim Arelius Buganini ekpneo_ ianmcorvidae|alt nullman pr Kavinorum vsync DrForr thijso kvsari bytecolor clog TDT kleppari Xantoz tic boyscared Reinout_Stevens synthasee CrEddy spacebat mathrick retupmoca hugod tmitt pookleblinky goosemo clop fihi09``` timlarson Pepe_ antifuchs housel Raptelan hohum adlai_ jsnell nyef luis Tabmow Fade gz ramus 20:48:38 -!- names: bfein scode dcrawford egn tvaalen mle-lucca anekos 20:48:46 fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban2.inka-online.net] has joined #lisp 20:49:42 stassats`: Maybe something like a standard packet-sniffer/protocol-analyzer? 20:50:14 that's what i'm going for currently, would be better if there was particularly suited 20:50:51 I think there -is-, but it's not coming to mind. 20:51:11 Or there's some program you can run that pretends to be a display and just does passthrough... 20:52:32 i found xmon 20:52:42 it appears to be doing this 20:53:09 Stattrav [~Stattrav@202.3.77.161] has joined #lisp 20:53:52 is there something like strerror but for mapping signums to their names? 20:54:55 tcr: strsignal(3)? 20:55:26 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:56:00 thanks! 20:56:11 -!- Ginei_Morioka [irssi_log@78.115.199.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:56:20 Oh, that's beautiful. strsignal() doesn't look to be thread-safe, but it's recommended over the -array- of descriptions, which is obviously threadsafe. 20:56:30 :D 20:57:04 nyef: why isn't it thread-safe? 20:57:15 -!- tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:57:38 pkhuong: Only good until the next call. 20:57:54 Ginei_Morioka [irssi_log@78.115.199.228] has joined #lisp 20:57:58 "strsignal() function returns a string describing the signal number passed in the argument sig. The string can only be used until the next call to strsignal" 20:58:06 nyef: oh right.. not const char*. 20:59:54 so I'm trying to write a function which returns the sigprocmask as an alist. I'm wondering whether I should write a wrapper function in C and if what it should return 21:00:29 oh well, xmon appears to be twenty years old and not working 21:00:31 xan_ [~xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 21:00:54 could be worse, like 50 years old and barely working :-) 21:01:18 now i found xtrace, and i even have it installed 21:02:13 tcr: I'm not sure that will be very useful: strsignal returns the long description of the signal, not the short name 21:02:28 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@2002:62da:45b3:1234:21d:e0ff:fe00:f7ab] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:02:47 hm 21:02:50 -!- Ginei_Morioka [irssi_log@78.115.199.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:02:59 Ginei_Morioka [irssi_log@78.115.199.228] has joined #lisp 21:04:34 -!- astoon [~astoon@80.78.109.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:04:41 varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 21:07:04 bah that sucks 21:07:08 -!- balooga [~00u4440@adsl-76-194-233-139.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:07:44 -!- Ginei_Morioka [irssi_log@78.115.199.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:08:00 Ginei_Morioka [irssi_log@78.115.199.228] has joined #lisp 21:08:43 tcr: freebsd also has a sys_signame[], which is what you want, but not linux 21:09:35 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 21:09:56 looks like CLX hangs because it doesn't send anything in the first place 21:10:33 stassats`: So, is it not flushing an output stream for some reason, or is it just confused? 21:11:07 that's what i need to find out, it worked for me before, and CLX wasn't changed much recently 21:11:13 i blame something in CCL 21:11:38 Heh. "Wasn't changed much recently" has to be an understatement. 21:11:52 One patch to the glx-fixes branch in months. 21:12:51 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:59 -!- Ginei_Morioka [irssi_log@78.115.199.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:13:08 Ginei_Morioka [irssi_log@78.115.199.228] has joined #lisp 21:15:10 lemonade` [~00@pool-74-96-73-198.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:14 -!- idurand [~idurand@faucon.labri.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:15:56 -!- CrEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:16:21 -!- nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:16:30 CrEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 21:18:14 -!- Ginei_Morioka [irssi_log@78.115.199.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:19:06 idurand [~idurand@faucon.labri.fr] has joined #lisp 21:20:08 fatblueduck [~duck@pool-71-104-235-97.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:37 nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 21:21:50 I'm using (map 'list #'reverse (sublist-returning-function)) 21:21:55 and it works in the repl 21:22:11 but in my program it returns the list without reversing the elements 21:22:42 would someone tell me what I'm doing wrong? 21:22:44 then it uses different code 21:22:52 jewel [~jewel@vc-41-31-181-173.umts.vodacom.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:24:06 stassats: in the repl, "sublist-returning-function" is instead "(list '(1 2) '(3 3))" 21:24:30 but my the function returns a list that is ordered in that same way 21:24:35 well, see what your function returns really 21:24:54 ((7.0 0) (6.928203 1) (6.708204 2) (6.3245554 3) (5.7445626 4) (4.8989797 5)) 21:25:03 that is what the function returns 21:25:04 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 21:25:16 -!- kwinz3_ [~kwinz@85.124.207.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:25:54 and when I map #'reverse to it that is returned un-reversed 21:26:00 -!- toekutr [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-143-127.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:26:24 you apply it to the elements 21:27:12 I'll pastebin the this so you can see what I'm doing... 21:27:16 you want to reverse values in the pairs, right? 21:28:01 -!- nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:28:01 right 21:28:06 Ginei_Morioka [irssi_log@78.115.199.228] has joined #lisp 21:28:19 http://www.pastebin.ca/1854158 21:28:21 nipra [~nipra@121.243.225.226] has joined #lisp 21:28:54 both quadrant1 and quadrant2 will return the same values when format returns them 21:29:49 but you print only quadrant2 21:30:01 it says quadrant2 21:30:06 which is not modified 21:30:25 in the code, as opposed to your format string 21:32:12 ahhh, -I was calling lengths-to-perimeter-when-radius from the repl and not add-stroke 21:32:23 add-stroke is indeed reversing the list 21:32:39 thanks for your time varjag and stassats` 21:34:01 konr1 [~konrad@187.106.50.112] has joined #lisp 21:34:20 balooga [~00u4440@adsl-76-194-233-139.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:36:06 kwinz3_ [~kwinz@85.124.207.234] has joined #lisp 21:37:03 So I think my students might actually read the error messages if they were undrstandable and if they were in French. The question then is "what things does one have to watch out for in order to avoid effective internationalizations of ones implementation?". 21:37:10 -!- konr [~konrad@187.106.50.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:37:45 Clearly, inline :report messages in conditions would be the first to go. 21:38:01 -!- jewel [~jewel@vc-41-31-181-173.umts.vodacom.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:39:04 Then, pretty much any signaling using a control string as a datum, in favor of using a condition object with a defined (and language-dependent) report method. 21:39:46 Asserts could be portable, just because they don't have any messages in them, but CERROR would be tricky. 21:40:04 asserts can have customized messages, too, just as check-type 21:40:11 beach: make the reporting functions (inline) 21:40:24 beach: use the long form of assert 21:40:54 fe[nl]ix: explain please! 21:41:04 p_l: How would that help? 21:41:15 beach: clisp has support for gettext, there's also cl-i10n by the dwim group (though I recall them saying it's unsatisfactory) 21:41:55 tcr: What do you mean by "asserts can have customized messages"? 21:42:18 the same as fe[nl]ix; you can give assert a custom error message 21:42:31 (assert (oddp 2) () "foo? ~D" 42) 21:43:05 tcr: and what is your suggestion for making this multi-lingual depending on some environment variable? 21:43:45 beach: it was just an effort to have it make little impact on non-multilingual system while keeping multilang capability 21:44:06 beach: (assert (null position) (position) (_ "A socket cannot have a file-position.")) 21:44:21 beach: #'_ being the translator 21:44:30 I don't know, I think it's hard, needs careful consideration and I'm not sure it's particularly viable in CL 21:45:37 fe[nl]ix: You are essentially advocating the "gettext" method. Is this the right idea? 21:46:21 beach: You could ask on comp.lang.lisp if anyone has experience with internationalization in CL :-) 21:46:22 beach: I'm not certain, but at least it's a known method 21:46:28 fe[nl]ix: What if a language needs the arguments in a different order for instance? 21:47:19 tcr: Thanks! And then get hundreds of messages about how I should use F# instead? 21:47:30 fe[nl]ix: Indeed. 21:47:46 beach: standard order of formatter arguments and usage of arglist movement format directives? 21:47:59 ugly but works 21:48:11 p_l: Yep. 21:48:27 -!- maden [~maden@dsl-157-111.aei.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:48:48 gettext has the pros of being commonly known format and rather easy to process 21:49:00 beach: AFAIK, gettext-like frameworks can at most change a word's suffix based on a parameter of the localized string 21:49:08 in order to handle pluralizationss 21:49:17 such as in Polish 21:49:25 Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 21:49:39 but that's all 21:49:50 well, FORMAT can do more with conditional directives, but still, languages like Polish, not to mention Japanese, are screwed 21:50:01 And that may or may not be sufficient for some languages. 21:50:14 p_l: Right! 21:50:25 beach: if the idiomatic way of expressing that message in language X requires a different order of parameters wrt. Enlgish, they're all screwed 21:50:53 fe[nl]ix: No, as p_l pointed out. 21:51:00 well doing it all in condition objects, the order does not matter 21:51:17 tcr: Exactly! 21:51:39 So it would be better to customize all reporting messages according to language. 21:51:55 and now i can't reproduce my bug anymore, damn 21:52:13 forbids some idioms like (error 'foof :context "during frobbage" :value 42) 21:52:16 the problem with slavic languages is that nouns have gender and numbering suffixes change with that. Then you have languages like japanese, where you have several different suffixes to use for numbering depending on the *kind* of noun 21:52:52 tcr: Yeah, one would have to be more careful about those. 21:53:03 tcr: dispatch on 'foof, make the rest arguments 21:53:13 luckily, Lisp has symbols, so :context :frobbage may work, too 21:54:36 tcr: or make it into (translate-context (error 'foof ...)) which would change the whole line into gettextable element ? 21:54:38 p_l: it's the same thing: 3 classes in Polish(genders), 21 in Japanese 21:54:40 I can SORT OF see how to internationalize an implementation, but it is even trickier to keep it compliant. 21:55:29 Like how do you handle (setf documentation)? 21:55:41 I guess the advice is: avoid strings, until you know what language you want 21:55:42 beach: While I'm giving all kinds of ideas regarding how to internationalize, I found by personal experience (and observation) that translation doesn't belong with computer languages 21:56:20 *p_l* shudders at memories of "polish translation" of Logo and Pascal 21:57:47 p_l: I kind of agree with you, and you and I probably both think that when you program, you are in "English" mode. However, it would be nice if my students could understand (and therefore read) the messages. And I also think that it would be an interesting exercise in making a CL implementation more modular. 21:57:48 forth is already polish 21:57:56 heh! 21:58:55 adeht: Thanks! Now how do you do that for (say) CERROR? 21:59:03 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-89-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:59:06 beach: link all messages to localized translation+explanation, but don't put actual translation into implementation? 21:59:16 beach, cl-l10n is not that bad, we just have an extensive TODO on it, but mostly infrastructural ones and about integration with local-time... 21:59:44 for example, make standard error codes... the modularity would still be nice for certain apps, though 22:00:06 beach, cl-l10n has a reader for cimple gettext use #"resource key" and provides transparent functional resources (closures invoked if they are closures) 22:00:25 beach: don't use cerrro 22:00:33 p_l: Possibly! Though I need to think through the possibility of making a particular CL implementation internationalizable, perhaps only to convince myself that it's not possible. 22:00:33 beach, it has inheritance (*locale* can be a list) 22:00:37 beach: cerror.. 22:00:57 beach: the first arg is a format control, a formatter function is a format control, too. 22:01:09 attila_lendvai: sounds interesting! 22:01:12 beach: so you can do (cerror (translated-formatter "...") ...) 22:01:39 i spent several hours debugging clx, and now it doesn't hang anymore, that's unfair! 22:01:51 you scared the bug :-) 22:02:03 beach: standard error codes + bi-lingual CLHS and error database/tutorials/etc. would have extra educational value, as it would teach extra english :) 22:02:05 somehow, i don't believe it won't show up anymore 22:02:12 adeht: That's the kind of "rule" I am looking for! 22:02:14 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-147-13.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn, you have to set yourself on fire.] 22:02:26 -!- kwinz3_ [~kwinz@85.124.207.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:02:27 beach, our approach is that proper l10n of a language requires all the features of a complex spell checker, which is beyond the scope of cl-l10n. but closures give you the freedom to use language specific libs... 22:03:01 beach: for documentation, don't use `documentation'.. use a documentation-for-language that takes an additional language parameter 22:03:09 fe[nl]ix: btw, it's 5 classes for counters in polish, it's just that they oft overlap 22:03:32 kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.124.207.234] has joined #lisp 22:03:59 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755908.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:04:01 adeht: I figured that out already, but then, if I want to remain compatible with CL, there has to be a DOCUMENTATION one day. 22:04:17 beach: special variables to the rescue? 22:04:21 beach: make documentation call (doc-for-lang *default-lang* ...) 22:04:31 fe[nl]ix: ((:singular (:male :female :neutral)) (:plural (:male-like :not-male-like))) ;-) 22:04:36 attila_lendvai: cl-i10n sounds good. 22:05:31 cl-l10n supports all that *default-lang* through functinal resources... they effectively dispatch on a list of locales 22:06:49 beach: but personally I, too, dislike "localized" programming environments.. I think your students will be better served if they learn their english 22:06:58 adeht, tcr: I agree. But the goal of SICL is to provide reusable components to implementors of CL. If it were just my own system, no problem, but how do I write a reusable module for a system that doesn't use internationalization and that is still part of a system that does? 22:08:32 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-156-147-13.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:33 beach: you need to keep in mind that it's _A_NSI Common Lisp :) 22:08:54 adeht: I might agree. But the choices are hard! Have the students systematically use ABORT and guess the problem, thereby propagating the myth that Lisp is mysterious, useless, incomprehensible, etc, or report the problem in a way that they can understand. 22:09:04 beach: on an unrelated note, how harddo you think it would be to decouple McCLIM's command system into a portable, non-CLIM module? 22:10:05 p_l: I haven't given it any thought, but I have been doing pretty much just that with the Web-based information system I am currently writing. 22:11:03 schoppenhauer [~css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 22:11:08 beach: I was basically thinking of making a system that could work on minimal, ANSI-specified I/O + be extensible by writing methods specialized for the kind of stream etc. 22:11:45 beach: I don't think there's any technical solution to solve that kind of problem :) 22:11:51 cause I would like to for example reuse SLIME REPL with CLIM-style commands 22:12:19 beach: you could just teach them not to ignore error messages 22:13:02 -!- marioxcc is now known as marioxcc-AFK 22:13:49 beach: the only way to solve that problem would be to use in each case a closure that takes the parameters and computes the actual message 22:14:14 p_l: Sounds great! 22:14:42 beach: if you do it in your own CL, you can extend (setf documentation), assert, cerror, etc ... to do that 22:14:46 -!- lemonade` [~00@pool-74-96-73-198.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:14:50 adeht: Thanks for the advice! 22:15:02 actually the study of the subject of dealing with exceptional situations such as errors thoughtfully both in software and in operation could be extremely beneficial to programmers 22:15:25 beach: it would be great for all kinds of ad-hoc apps where you don't really want to write an UI but you don't fancy writing code commands all the time 22:15:52 fe[nl]ix: Yes, I did that, and it turns out to be portable, if you accpt that a particular invocation is concerned with a particular language. 22:16:12 ideally it would undo the decades of sloppy UNIXy thinking 22:16:56 adeht: I don't think UNIXy thinking was actually that sloppy, I think it's more of a laziness problem 22:17:00 p_l: Definitely! 22:17:31 adeht: I totally agree with that goal! 22:17:44 p_l: yeah.. it takes a lot of "words" to say things correctly in C :) 22:17:54 Edward [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-73-102.w81-249.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 22:18:05 the UNIX pov was "better fail immediately if you can't ensure proper recovery" - so that you wouldn't have non-deterministic error later on because you tried to recover from an error and something went bad 22:18:23 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-135-87.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 22:18:34 -!- pdponze [~pdponze@144.85.124.96] has left #lisp 22:18:47 adeht: well, C was by design a rather limited language, and the idea was afaik to write in higher level languages that would then generate C... 22:18:54 p_l: And, it was related to technology at the time, like the concept of a process, that we now consider "good" as opposed to "a necessity due to the limitations of the PDP8". 22:19:09 basically, kind of macros, except on inter-language level 22:19:42 saturday night horror stories? 22:20:21 otoh, some popular "unices" have horrible bugs that are completely ignored that stop you from recovering from certain errors... 22:20:44 p_l: the thing is that "proper recovery" can never be completely ensured.. but in many cases it can be damn useful.. 22:21:41 So it looks like SICL will have some #+ and @- in there... 22:22:33 -!- konr1 [~konrad@187.106.50.112] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:22:37 rares1 [~rares@174-17-85-159.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:43 the fact that it's hard work to handle things gracefully, coupled with a bare language such as C, means the usual approach is the "punt" approach.. e.g., xmalloc() { return malloc() || exit(1); } (yes, not real C) 22:22:48 -!- rares [~rares@174-26-125-120.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:22:59 konr [~konrad@187.106.50.112] has joined #lisp 22:23:58 Erlang now advances that approach, too.. at least on a similar level of failure 22:25:03 adeht: Except that Erlang community makes the point about taking errors seriously much stronger 22:25:24 if something serious happens in ECL, I get a segfault. Whereas SBCL is often capable of handling it in some more graceful manner 22:25:25 p_l: right.. they handle them on a different level 22:25:51 Unix... is a mess. Though I still enjoyed ESR's TAoUP very much, including its chapter on proper, Unix-style error handling 22:26:21 p_l: but from what I gathered they don't tend to seriously think about resumption (i.e. restarts) 22:26:22 tcr: that doesn't mean it isn't possible to make ECL recover from those errors 22:26:34 it tries already 22:26:53 so yeah perhaps it's just a how many man-years were put into each implementation :-) 22:27:01 adeht: because they write assuming that the whole thing might fail and instead plan for failure or restart the whole operation at certain point 22:27:14 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.124.207.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:27:34 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@jobs.etla.org] has quit [Quit: mstevens] 22:27:36 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-89-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:27:38 p_l: yes, the point is that you don't always want to restart the whole operation :) 22:27:54 that would be the punt approach 22:28:05 adeht: well, then break it down into smaller pieces 22:28:58 kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.124.207.234] has joined #lisp 22:29:05 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 22:29:13 if the operation is atomic, then I say bloody hell, it *should* punt 22:29:19 -!- varjag [~eugene@226.119.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:29:41 p_l: yep.. that's how designing robust CL systems should be possible 22:30:21 adeht: I thing the problem is more of the fact that error handling seems to be *not* taught 22:31:10 I think PCL actually exceeds the norm when it comes to error handling tutoring with its chapter on conditions. And that's general norm of what I have seen in literature. 22:31:11 p_l: correct.. that's why I mentioned the study of the subject to beach 22:31:56 I think GJS talks about that subject nowadays as well 22:31:56 most other books I've seen just show you an exception catching/handling mechanism and leave it at that. 22:32:39 rares [~rares@174-26-100-200.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:32:52 -!- rares1 [~rares@174-17-85-159.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:33:59 -!- lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:34:01 beach: I think a better tool than translation/localization of implementation would be integrating some kind of automatic code checker into SLIME (or equivalent), so that on error, it would try to locate the source and run such checker on the source inspecting the stack frame as well - so it could catch for examply misused specials etc. 22:34:20 something like Lisp Critic? 22:34:48 for example, I recall losing once at least 30 minutes because I bloody hell didn't know that Pascal defined "in" and "out" variables 22:35:34 of course, the programming environment (written apparently by our teacher), wasn't capable of telling me that and was completely useless anyway. 22:36:08 And yes, it was that "localized" Pascal as well 22:36:54 so the search space of possible keywords/defined names that I could have infringed on was twice as big. 22:42:28 -!- timor1 [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:42:33 sbahra [~sbahra@c-68-33-18-207.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:43:23 linus5 [~user@dyn-160-39-42-66.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 22:44:55 -!- linus5 [~user@dyn-160-39-42-66.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:45:46 linus5 [~user@dyn-160-39-42-66.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 22:46:56 -!- l0stman [~l0stman@freedsl-2.blueline.mg] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:51:39 -!- sbahra [~sbahra@c-68-33-18-207.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:51:57 netytan [~netytan@85.211.40.98] has joined #lisp 22:52:25 -!- benny [~benny@i577A79C8.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:54:19 -!- kajic [kajic@Psilocybe.Update.UU.SE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:54:21 -!- abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:55:34 abend [~alx@076-076-146-016.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 22:58:14 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:00:00 is there an internal cl function for adding corresponding list items? (+ '(1 3) 23:00:19 ('3 5) -> (4 8) 23:00:29 benny [~benny@i577A8074.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 23:00:52 attila_lendvai_ [~ati@89.135.205.114] has joined #lisp 23:01:14 (reduce #'+ '(1 2 3 4 5)) 23:03:21 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:03:27 fatblueduck: Have a look at the various map functions. 23:04:09 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@adsl-89-132-54-34.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:04:23 nyef: ah thank you I think I found what I'm looking for 23:04:48 glogic [~rm@174.143.215.45] has joined #lisp 23:05:49 (map 'list #'+ '(1 2) '(2 5)) 23:12:29 nick` [~nick@ip68-98-187-233.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:54 beach: you committed two backup files to SICL 23:13:14 beach: Code/Conditions/conditions.lisp~ and Code/Types/types.lisp~ 23:14:01 My friend here and I are having some trouble getting ASDF to work. 23:15:00 I am positive that I put a .asd file in a directory that is mentioned in the asdf:*central-registry*, but it keeps saying it cannot find it. (Using Allegro CL in Lispbox. I'll paste the things we used in a second.) 23:15:23 nick`: "put" ? 23:15:25 you copied it ? 23:15:49 Just a second. We first stuck the directory in the registry, like so: (setf asdf:*central-registry* '(*default-pathname-defaults* #p"/Users/nick/Desktop/LISPy" )) 23:16:10 Then, we try to do this: (asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op 'parenscript) 23:16:12 nick`: you're missing a final #\/ 23:16:18 Ah 23:16:18 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 23:16:24 You mean inside the pathname? 23:16:27 That's good to know. 23:16:33 yes 23:16:59 But it doesn't help. 23:17:22 The response to the asdf:operate is 'component "parenscript" not found' 23:17:49 is parenscript a subdirectory of /Users/nick/Desktop/LISPy/ ? 23:18:16 No, but there is a symlink to a file called parenscript.asd inside the LISPy directory. 23:19:09 lrwxr-xr-x 1 nick staff 43 Mar 27 19:18 parenscript.asd -> lispbox-0.7/parenscript-2.1/parenscript.asd 23:19:20 so LISPy/ contains a symlink to the actual parenscript.asd ? 23:19:24 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:19:25 Exactly. 23:19:33 in that case, I can't see why it shouldn't work 23:19:36 Which is the one inside the directory that has the rest of parenscript inside it. 23:19:39 Me neither ;-) 23:19:45 is that a relative link or absolute? 23:19:50 relative 23:19:53 Is that a problem? 23:19:59 yes 23:20:44 Now it's absolute. Didn't fix it. 23:20:58 seems as though I had trouble with that 23:21:25 Ah. Well, thanks for the suggestion. My friend here has some experience with using Common Lisp pathnames, but it's over a decade ago ;-) 23:22:25 Note that I am not positive that ASDF can load any packages at all, since this is the first package I have tried to load with it. Lispbox seems to (strangely) set the current working directory in emacs to "/". 23:22:56 The ASDF documentation does tell you that the current working directory should always be fine (presumably because it is included in *default-pathname-defaults*)... 23:24:38 OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-66-36.ipnets.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 23:25:41 you can try stepping through asdf:find-system 23:25:55 Hmm... there's an idea... 23:26:28 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 23:26:41 -!- Guest51763 [~user@159.92.64.121] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:26:59 -!- Athas [~athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:28:28 fe[nl]ix: Hmm, I thought I was careful. I'll try to fix it in the morning. 23:29:52 fe[nl]ix pasted "better make-backup-file-name" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96971 23:30:14 beach: ^ is what I use, and it has helped me a lot 23:30:29 -!- pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.209] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:30:43 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban2.inka-online.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:30:57 beach: just remember to create ~/.backups/ 23:31:21 -!- zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:33:05 smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:19 synthase [~synthase@adsl-220-161-36.mob.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 23:38:41 -!- attila_lendvai_ is now known as attila_lendvai 23:38:49 -!- synthasee [~synthase@adsl-220-187-4.mob.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:39:03 -!- snearch [~olaf@e179134166.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:39:58 those .asd symlinks again... 23:42:09 attila_lendvai: would you prefer ghc-pkg approach, of a separate db containing information on available ASDF system definitions to load? 23:42:20 ikki [~ikki@189.247.5.38] has joined #lisp 23:42:24 attila annotated #96971 "my emacs backup config" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96971#1 23:42:44 p_l: I would, but that would require the use of a package manager 23:43:00 p_l, i prefer a one pager that scans a directory... http://dwim.hu/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=HEAD%20hu.dwim.asdf;a=headblob;f=/source/workspace.lisp 23:43:01 as opposed to simply downloading stuff and doing little more 23:43:39 wvdschel [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 23:44:11 attila_lendvai: one of my first CL hacks was something like that ;) 23:45:40 *p_l* has a recursive scanning hack in his sbclrc, haven't yet actually used it 23:45:43 adeht, that's exactly what i'm preaching but i doubt anything will change... this should be the default way advertized by asdf, otherwise newcomers start struggling with symlinks for no use... and oldtimers could fall back to symlink any time... 23:48:11 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 23:48:33 well, maybe have a mechanism that the user can put into asdf:*s-d-s-f* 23:49:26 upstream vanilla comes with that, too 23:50:02 you only have to enable it in your ~/.some/weird/path/asdf.conf 23:50:15 upstream asdf I mean 23:51:09 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:56:47 phf [~user@dhcp64-134-70-245.ssaf.orl.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:07 hello, is there a units manipulation library for common lisp? 23:58:38 -!- schoppenhauer [~css@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:58:54 something like http://www.isi.edu/isd/LOOM/documentation/loom4.0-release-notes.html#Units ? 23:59:37 syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.182.89] has joined #lisp 00:04:10 adeht: yes, that looks good. i take it this is tightly coupled with loom language? 00:04:31 -!- bizarrefish [~lee@host86-160-44-109.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:04:40 phf: no.. from what I recall, it is not 00:04:55 I did not actually use it, though.. just skimmed the code 00:05:53 bizarrefish [~lee@host86-160-44-109.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:07:35 aquateen [~chris@c-24-18-15-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:07:38 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 00:07:38 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@pool-71-247-120-94.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 00:07:43 adeht: thank you, i'll give it a try 00:08:17 kerim [~kerim@81.214.22.138] has joined #lisp 00:08:25 the code isn't very pretty 00:09:06 I used a hacked version for http://common-lisp.net/~trittweiler/talks/python-and-lisp-2009.pdf 00:09:12 yeah, symbol splitting 00:09:28 (iirc) 00:09:39 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:10:06 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.124.207.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:10:45 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:11:14 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:14:54 hrm, one could swipe the data file of the `units' program and just parse that. It's got just about any conversion on the planet in a single text file. You can even convert barns to sheds: 1 shed = 1e-24 barn ;) 00:14:57 nicdev [~user@rigel.cs.amherst.edu] has joined #lisp 00:15:26 Heh. Now -there's- a measurement. 00:16:03 kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.124.207.234] has joined #lisp 00:17:49 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@140.232.182.89] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 00:18:46 -!- nicdev [~user@rigel.cs.amherst.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 00:20:37 units.dat is a little language, so you can't just parse it 00:21:06 phf, I'm seeing that, definitely need an infix parser 00:21:27 bril(x) [;lambert] 2^(x+-100) lamberts ;log2(bril/lambert)+100 00:21:58 phf, oh I'm just talking about converting one unit to another 00:22:03 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:26 you have: x you want: y 00:22:26 -!- chittoor [~chittoor@117.204.52.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:22:29 ah, just bail out on complicated conversions 00:23:03 heh, it has units like "shoesize_men" 00:23:14 would be an interesting little project, the file just looks like rewrite rules 00:23:22 hehe 00:23:23 .... bytecolor multiply by cos(p/2)? 00:23:29 davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:34 Err... cos(pi/2)? 00:24:39 -!- quidnunc [~user@bas16-montreal02-1279375297.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:26:11 muahaha, according to the file the jews and christians could not even agree on the size of cubit: biblicalcubit 21.8 in, hebrewcubit 17.58 in 00:27:05 bytecolor: What about just plain "cubit"? 00:27:23 bytecolor: that comes in only two versions 00:27:48 this is as much fun as the timezone file 00:27:49 more or less each european country used to have its own "mile" 00:28:23 oh, lots of cubits, irish, roman, etc 00:28:31 bytecolor: imagine the fun for a traveler from france to russia :D 00:28:38 ahaha 00:36:09 chittoor [~chittoor@117.204.49.243] has joined #lisp 00:37:22 -!- xan_ [~xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:38:10 ... CRTs are too -deep-. :-/ 00:38:24 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 00:38:55 xan_ [~xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 00:41:09 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-48-139.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:41:18 -!- adeht [~user@bzq-84-110-123-3.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:42:14 I had dual 21" for a long time, that coupled with my dualy box, I didn't need a heater. 00:43:11 legumbre [~leo@r190-135-51-32.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 00:44:29 I just don't have the desk space to put a second monitor up that won't be 90 degrees out-of-plane with my current one or worse. 00:44:51 (That's an exaggeration, but not by much.) 00:45:00 -!- kzar [~kzar@hardwick.demon.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:45:13 And much of what stops me is actually the wall behind my desk. 00:45:47 -!- nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:46:30 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 00:46:40 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-244-120.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:19 I had a large l-shaped desk then, the main monitor was directly in front of me, the other just to the right maybe 15 or 20 degrees angle. I mostly just kept firefox running in the second monitor; the documentation view ;) 00:49:19 Can't really complain about the documentation view. 00:50:42 hrm, * has a higher precedence than / in units 00:51:39 -!- etate [~meta@mon69-4-82-228-201-242.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:53:44 bytecolor: / is not division though, it's like km/h type stuff. division is | 00:53:56 phf, oh? hrm 00:54:01 :D 00:54:22 going to be one funky parser 00:55:07 there's a parse.y in the codebase :> 00:55:15 dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:38 cool, a bnf! 00:56:13 hi, is there some function in sbcl to expand a pathname like "~/"? thanks in advance 00:56:54 davazp: not builtin but there's http://github.com/xach/tilde 00:57:55 I thought it was (merge-pathames (user-homedir-pathname) ) or similar? 01:04:35 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-135-87.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:05:36 -!- marioxcc-AFK is now known as marioxcc 01:06:39 -!- nick` [~nick@ip68-98-187-233.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:08:16 no cl-units on cliki, but there exists a debian package 01:10:19 -!- LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-98-188.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:10:49 it has barns but no sheds ;) 01:12:58 _rata_ [~bea182e9@gateway/web/freenode/x-mpexvmavocqpmzwi] has joined #lisp 01:13:53 xristos [~x@2001:470:8859:cafe:20c:29ff:fec5:e30a] has joined #lisp 01:16:08 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:19:25 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-184-36.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:22:54 midst [Yai@124.127.182.164] has joined #lisp 01:23:14 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@85.253.73.75.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:23:17 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.64.210.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 01:26:53 -!- midst [Yai@124.127.182.164] has left #lisp 01:30:24 -!- aquateen [~chris@c-24-18-15-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: aquateen] 01:33:09 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 01:34:18 aquateen [~chris@c-24-18-15-69.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:37:06 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@89.135.205.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:37:09 -!- koollman [~samson_t@87-98-172-67.ovh.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:37:28 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.124.207.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:38:56 koollman [~samson_t@ns301422.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:21 kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.124.207.234] has joined #lisp 01:46:57 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:50:19 -!- phf [~user@dhcp64-134-70-245.ssaf.orl.wayport.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:55:26 proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has joined #lisp 01:58:58 -!- smanek [~smanek@static-71-249-221-129.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:58:58 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:00:15 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 02:02:34 adu [~ajr@pool-74-96-89-29.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:04:45 is there a way to make revappend behave like adjoin? duplicate conses wouldn't appear in final list? 02:06:17 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 02:06:27 -!- konr [~konrad@187.106.50.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:08:44 -!- xenosoz1 [~xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:08:50 that's a bit weird, but here's a properly weird idea: (reduce (lambda (a b) (adjoin b a)) '(1 2 2 3) :initial-value '(4 5 6)) 02:09:00 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 02:09:43 rares1 [~rares@174-26-100-200.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:09:46 -!- retupmoca [~retupmoca@adsl-76-235-173-121.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:09:51 -!- ve [~a@smith.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:09:56 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:09:59 adeht I think that's the direction I need 02:10:55 xenosoz1 [~xenosoz@pe.snu.ac.kr] has joined #lisp 02:11:46 -!- rares [~rares@174-26-100-200.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:12:06 -!- kerim [~kerim@81.214.22.138] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 02:12:15 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483CB37.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:14:03 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:15:55 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-252-168-34.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.1.1] 02:18:22 -!- rares1 [~rares@174-26-100-200.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:19:44 rares [~rares@174-26-100-200.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:21:48 -!- xan_ [~xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has 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03:15:07 -!- pocket7878 [~masato@p2069-ipbf3506hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.2.6] 03:16:15 -!- housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:16:16 -!- herbieB [~herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:16:31 herbieB [~herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has joined #lisp 03:16:32 bytecolor: that's why everyone should use SI 03:17:08 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:20:39 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:23:56 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-184-206-92.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:26:27 -!- chittoor [~chittoor@117.204.49.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:28:56 housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 03:29:25 -!- dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has quit [Quit: dreish] 03:31:33 retupmoca [~retupmoca@adsl-76-235-201-132.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 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[~Moe111@bas1-montreal02-1096724744.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 06:02:21 -!- ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.27] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:04:06 Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:04:48 potatishandlarn [potatishan@c-958d72d5.026-58-73746f25.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 06:07:04 chittoor [~chittoor@117.204.53.220] has joined #lisp 06:12:55 konr1 [~konrad@187.106.50.112] has joined #lisp 06:15:19 Good morning! 06:15:48 -!- konr [~konrad@187.106.50.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 06:16:48 good morning 06:16:51 I hate time changes 06:17:16 I agree. 06:17:19 maybe do as chuck moore and ignore 'em? :) 06:18:47 hello beach 06:19:58 vng: Hey. I was planning to download your code today and have a look at it. Others here could do the same, I guess. 06:20:43 -!- ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-21-246.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 06:20:44 _ace4016_ [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-21-246.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 06:21:07 beach: yes 06:21:22 So what is the URL again? 06:21:43 http://common-lisp.net/project/sudoku/...? 06:21:58 ichernetsky [~ichernets@195.222.64.241] has joined #lisp 06:22:15 beach: http://common-lisp.net/gitweb?p=projects/sudoku/sudoku.git;a=summary 06:23:28 beach: or you can go to the repository in the home page 06:25:24 beach: I have changed the link of repository too. You can access it 06:25:59 OK, I got it. 06:26:43 fusss [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:27:55 vng: First thing to fix: put a package prefix asdf: on defsystem in sudoku.asd. 06:28:57 beach: yes 06:30:01 is there an internal cl function for truncating a number _away_ from 0 rather than towards 0? 06:31:13 -!- dralston [~dralston@S010600212986cca8.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:35:36 user_ [~user@p11811120.orange.net.il] has joined #lisp 06:35:55 -!- mega1_ [~quassel@53d83473.adsl.enternet.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:37:07 -!- user_ [~user@p11811120.orange.net.il] has quit [Client Quit] 06:38:08 vng: Pretty much every defclass in sudoku-algorithm is badly indented. You need to go through the code and indent every line properly. 06:39:05 vng: And you need to find out what it is that longkid is doing to make that happen. 06:39:52 etate [~meta@mon69-4-82-228-201-242.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 06:40:17 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-89-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:41:13 beach: yes, I will talk to longkid about that 06:41:40 vng: All his IFs are badly indented as well. 06:42:10 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-76-240-82-38.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:42:34 vng: (if (whatever) (return-from ... nil)) t should be replaced with (not whatever). 06:43:02 vng: It's the definition of the check-hole function. 06:43:39 beach: ya 06:44:42 Kludgy [~therealkl@S01060018f85956c8.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:49:38 enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-75-56-197-212.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:52:33 fatblueduck: ceiling? http://franz.com/support/documentation/6.2/ansicl/dictentr/floorffl.htm 06:53:52 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-142-222.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:58:59 -!- Kludgy [~therealkl@S01060018f85956c8.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [] 07:02:52 fusss: thanks, but ceiling rounds in a positive direction always 07:03:03 how can I leave a memo message for someone? 07:03:10 fusss: anyway I wrote a function to do what I want... 07:03:31 hohum_ [dcorbe@apollo.corbe.net] has joined #lisp 07:03:33 vng: You say minion: memo for : ... 07:03:48 but minion seems to be gone. 07:03:59 minion: chant 07:04:00 -!- hohum [dcorbe@apollo.corbe.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:04:00 anything less verbose than xml-emitter for xml generation? 07:04:03 :( 07:04:08 beach: :) 07:04:30 oh 07:04:33 if they are logged in... you could '/q username' 07:04:37 and type the message 07:04:41 I think... 07:05:46 what was the purpose of the (defun cons (x y) (cons x y)) in SBCL? 07:06:39 beach: I fixed the asdf: and push to cl.net 07:07:32 beach: and we will talk to longkid soon 07:07:44 sykopomp: to provide a lispy function definition for an operation that gets open-coded 07:08:00 adeht: thanks. 07:11:17 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:14:57 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.64.210.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:24:00 -!- marioxcc [~user@200.92.23.113] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:27:50 -!- konr1 [~konrad@187.106.50.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:31:46 -!- chittoor [~chittoor@117.204.53.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:32:53 -!- ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has quit [Quit: off] 07:36:48 -!- tompa [~thomas@h59ec27fb.sehjjak.dyn.perspektivbredband.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:39:17 vng: Great! 07:39:36 Draggor [~Draggor@216-80-120-145.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.static.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 07:44:54 chittoor [~chittoor@117.204.49.69] has joined #lisp 07:46:21 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 07:46:57 timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:49:39 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:49:43 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 07:54:06 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 07:56:03 -!- timor [~timor@port-87-234-97-27.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:56:06 ASau [~user@83.69.227.32] has joined #lisp 07:58:40 hdurer__ [~holly@home.sinclair-durer.net] has joined #lisp 07:59:46 -!- Holcxjo [~holly@88.97.45.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:00:47 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:01:11 -!- _rata_ [~bea182e9@gateway/web/freenode/x-xowjgkkrujkzewcs] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:02:59 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:06:52 -!- chittoor [~chittoor@117.204.49.69] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:11:41 grouzen [~grouzen@91.214.124.2] has joined #lisp 08:17:46 -!- adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-244-120.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:19:39 API naming dilema; Setting a background color. Should it be (setf (background-color) obj) or (set-background-color obj) ? If 'set-' then I need a corresponding 'get-' 08:19:56 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:20:01 freiksenet [~freiksene@hoasnet-fe29dd00-202.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 08:23:34 chittoor [~chittoor@117.204.49.135] has joined #lisp 08:25:03 sykopomp: look into src/compiler/generic/objdef.lisp for the real thing 08:25:33 tcr: thanks! 08:26:33 Hi_ [~81651338@gateway/web/freenode/x-xpihkfphglvyufli] has joined #lisp 08:27:33 I'm trying to learn common lisp and I wanted to make a function that would multiply polinomials of arbitrary size (represented by a list of coefficients) but I'm not sure how I would go about doing that 08:30:46 Hi_: SICP contains a chapter about it 08:32:02 which chapter? 08:32:56 don't know off hand but as it's available online you can use google to search through the book 08:33:46 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:34:00 ok I found the chaper 08:34:03 thank you 08:36:24 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 08:42:57 -!- balooga [~00u4440@adsl-76-194-233-139.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:48:06 -!- _ace4016_ [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-21-246.mia.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: night] 08:48:14 Athas` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 08:49:38 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:53:50 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f75787b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:56:02 Athas`` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 08:57:11 -!- fusss [~chatzilla@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:57:34 -!- Athas` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:57:41 -!- Athas`` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:01:58 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:03:14 wow, sourceforge cvs is really fast at this time on a Sunday morning 09:03:24 I suppose even Free Software hackers have weekends off 09:03:28 (but not me. *sob*) 09:04:02 anyone good with colors? I need to map the interval [-1.0, 1.0] to one of 128 colors. Does anyone recongnize that color scheme? The conversion is easy, but where are the rgb values? #x7f is 7 bits, not evenly divisibly by 3. 09:05:25 have more green gradations than red and blue 09:06:26 Krystof: I was just reading about 8 bit color and they do something like that, 3 for red, 3 for green, and 2 for blue. 09:07:06 also, if you want the 128 colours to be "evenly spaced" in some way, you have a little bit of work to do 09:07:24 (because the colour spaces most applications work with are not linear) 09:08:15 ah, that's not really an issue ;) 09:08:25 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:08:27 the book states -1.0 is full on red, 0.0 is full on green, and 1.0 blue 09:08:35 the book is lame! 09:08:50 ahaha 09:09:08 it's a wonky color scheme, do doubt 09:09:09 ok, so the easy way is just to linearly interpolate between those specifications 09:09:20 nod 09:09:28 but you could do better by interpolating in a linear colour space and backconverting 09:11:02 with the _37 tag new patches may go in? 09:11:34 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 09:11:54 yes 09:11:55 go wild 09:12:15 -!- Krystof changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: SBCL 1.0.37, ABCL 0.19.1, CLSQL 5.0.5, ECL 10.3.1 09:12:33 slime is stuck in an endless loop... how do I stop this nicely? 09:13:09 <_3b> C-c C-c, C-c C-b, or C-g depending on context 09:13:46 <_3b> (first 2 if you actually mean the lisp slime is connected to is in a loop, 3rd if you mean slime itself) 09:13:47 I think I depends oh how tight your inner loop is too, I cant get out sometimes 09:15:37 -!- plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-164-20.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:16:08 -!- dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:17:22 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.124.207.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:17:46 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:18:28 kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:21:25 -!- enthymeme [~kraken@adsl-75-56-197-212.dsl.lsan03.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: sleep!] 09:21:57 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:22:01 kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.124.207.234] has joined #lisp 09:24:24 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181201111.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:24:30 attila_lendvai [~ati@89.135.205.114] has joined #lisp 09:24:47 thus endeth the sbcl-1.0.37 release process 09:25:00 pocket_ [~Pocket@p2069-ipbf3506hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:30:42 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.124.207.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:31:28 -!- Hi_ [~81651338@gateway/web/freenode/x-xpihkfphglvyufli] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:31:55 kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.124.207.234] has joined #lisp 09:32:10 \o/ 09:32:22 and good afternoon 09:33:12 yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:33:33 good afternoon 09:33:55 tcr: a huge ramble sent to sbcl-devel about deadlines, etc 09:34:34 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-184-36.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 09:35:39 adeht [~death@bzq-84-110-244-120.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:37:40 _3b: thanks 09:37:53 http://www.pastebin.ca/1854460 09:38:24 does anyone know why this is returning nil? I'm certain add-stroke is returning values... 09:39:08 lhz [~shrekz@c-b9aa72d5.021-158-73746f34.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 09:39:19 -!- sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-79-116-103.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:39:46 -!- proq [~user@unaffiliated/proqesi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:42:00 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-116-103.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:43:30 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:44:01 clhs: append 09:44:04 read that 09:44:36 hint: think about single-linked lists and return values 09:45:29 plutonas [~plutonas@port-92-195-254-22.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 09:45:48 nikodemus: ok thanks 09:46:12 yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:48:00 hello pocket_. New here? 09:48:49 hm, are the bots on vacation again? 09:48:56 minion: poke 09:50:10 davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:50:28 nikodemus: Thanks. I really wished I never looked into all this. :-) 09:52:38 -vng:#lisp- It's really hot :( 09:52:39 good stuff. 09:52:52 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-joyymszqvkntfysi] has left #lisp 09:53:43 -!- pocket_ [~Pocket@p2069-ipbf3506hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Bye...] 09:55:01 I'll read it now, but yes it's not interrupts per se that are bad but arbitrary unwinding. For example, I think a robust multi-threading program, if you just break into a random thread without unwinding, I think the program state should flow to some equilibrium where everything waits for the random thread to continue and it should just work on continuing 09:59:39 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:59:41 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-89-tbnb-esr-2.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:00:38 nikodemus: Are you aware of pthread cancelation? Isn't that deadlines-in-C? 10:00:53 tcr: yes and no 10:01:04 (to both questions) 10:06:12 yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:48 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.124.207.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:07:39 *_3b* wonders how far the sbcl-win32-threads tree on github has gotten 10:08:03 waat? 10:08:06 linky? 10:08:16 <_3b> http://github.com/dmitryvk/sbcl-win32-threads 10:08:48 kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.124.207.234] has joined #lisp 10:09:39 LGPL code :/ 10:09:44 <_3b> ouch 10:09:56 khali [~khali@203.171.123.8.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has joined #lisp 10:10:07 -!- drewc [~user@S01060013101b6ddb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:10:23 in the runtime, so it's not deadly, but... 10:12:37 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:12:51 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:13:16 -!- wvdschel [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:13:40 wvdschel [~wim@78-20-14-180.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 10:16:11 yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:17:36 how about the name condition-firewall for handler-unwind? :-) 10:18:24 or handler-firewall 10:27:13 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.124.207.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:28:19 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.151.230] has joined #lisp 10:31:03 -!- vng [~user@123.20.64.174] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:31:52 kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.124.207.234] has joined #lisp 10:32:26 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:37:22 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.124.207.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:38:49 spradnyesh1 [~pradyus@122.166.155.80] has joined #lisp 10:39:53 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.151.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:43:41 xan_ [~xan@cs78225040.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:47:13 yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:50:10 -!- spradnyesh1 [~pradyus@122.166.155.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:51:15 fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban1.inka-online.net] has joined #lisp 10:52:07 tcr: it seems that the mailbox version i pushed on github was not the most recent i had 10:53:14 kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.124.207.234] has joined #lisp 10:53:16 could you push the most recent version? 10:53:33 i'm just looking into it 10:53:44 i found an sbcl branch i had forgotten 10:54:04 in this alternate history i seem to have integrated sb-queue into sbcl instead of making it a contrib 10:54:22 (for example, using sb-queue for stream buffers, etc) 10:55:58 how can I undo the latest comment in git again? 10:56:02 commit 10:58:15 in your local copy? 10:58:28 eg. git reset HEAD^ 10:58:37 which doesn't change the tree 10:58:55 git reset --hard HEAD^ # if you want to throw away the tree too 10:59:08 tcr: or you add what you forgot to add and do commit --amend 10:59:11 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.155.80] has joined #lisp 10:59:24 I committed it to the wrong branch 10:59:44 ah 10:59:46 -!- chittoor [~chittoor@117.204.49.135] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 11:00:05 go to right branch, git cherry-pick 11:00:14 envi^laptop [~envi@220.121.234.156] has joined #lisp 11:00:20 go to wrong branch, git reset --hard HEAD^ 11:00:34 -!- envi^laptop [~envi@220.121.234.156] has quit [Client Quit] 11:00:38 for those who want to live dangerously: do those in the other order :-) 11:01:03 tcr: ok, it seems there aren't any real changes in the mailbox code on that branch 11:01:52 i'll send you the couple of trivial differences for consideration 11:02:00 I give up on the condition-wait crap, I'll add sb-mailbox without addressing the timeout fixme 11:02:01 but i don't think they are important 11:02:08 astoon [~astoon@80.78.109.217] has joined #lisp 11:02:14 cool 11:03:52 hrm 11:04:01 I do need a receive-message that does not block though 11:04:33 then you need to add try-semaphore 11:05:05 hm yeah that should be doable! (deja vu :-)) 11:05:32 and i would suggest making it try-receive-message instead of adding a :wait argument 11:06:05 i think explicit non-blocking functions are easier to reason about 11:07:46 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.124.207.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:07:49 git branch | wc -l # 87, ouch 11:09:08 kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.124.207.234] has joined #lisp 11:09:47 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.64.210.cable.starman.ee] has joined #lisp 11:10:11 try-receiving-message? 11:10:30 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:11:25 i would go for the grammatically incorrect version, but i'm not sure i can defend that rationally 11:12:02 receive-message-or-nil 11:12:05 pavelludiq [~quassel@91.139.196.209] has joined #lisp 11:13:16 maybe-receive-message 11:14:32 nha [~prefect@250-194.105-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 11:14:42 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@85.124.207.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:14:48 chittoor [~chittoor@117.204.49.250] has joined #lisp 11:17:54 snorble [~none@s83-179-14-105.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 11:17:59 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.155.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:19:46 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.225.9] has joined #lisp 11:21:02 Krystof: do you have a minute to look at PCL? 11:21:14 i think something is a simple editing snafu, but... 11:21:18 sort of in a not very kind of way 11:21:27 hit me with it 11:21:52 line 1668-1678 in dfun.lisp 11:22:44 pre-ansi / interpreter lefover? 11:24:27 haha 11:24:51 must be 11:25:08 ok, good. i was wondering if my brain was really on the fritz 11:25:15 caveat: every time I try to understand this bit it goes all metacircular and my brain hurts 11:25:31 but that one really does look like an (IF X Y Y) case 11:25:54 hypothesis: is function-p ever NIL? 11:26:21 -!- chittoor [~chittoor@117.204.49.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:26:26 -!- Anarch [~olaf@c-67-171-37-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: WILL TROLL FOR FOOD] 11:26:59 nikodemus: why is the COUNT of a semaphore unsigned-byte? It's useful to be able to initialize a semaphore's count with a negative value 11:27:34 tcr: not sure offhand 11:27:56 -!- davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has left #lisp 11:28:21 davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:28:26 i also suspect that allowing negative values can easily lead to subtle bugs 11:28:47 if you want a reverse semaphore you're better off using one instead of a semaphore 11:29:32 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.225.9] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:29:38 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:29:45 haha yeah that was my point against semaphores a while ago 11:33:11 kwinz3 [~kwinz@mk093111102154.a1.net] has joined #lisp 11:33:36 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.225.9] has joined #lisp 11:35:07 (our semaphores are also embarassingly slow right now -- they should use futexes directly on linux) 11:37:55 -!- davazp [~user@147.Red-88-6-205.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:39:05 chittoor [~chittoor@117.204.48.140] has joined #lisp 11:41:25 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.225.9] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:43:53 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.225.9] has joined #lisp 11:45:33 HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:46:07 lnostdal [~5f22c151@gateway/web/freenode/x-girfgcueylvqoprx] has joined #lisp 11:48:22 -!- HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:49:24 is there anyone here who has build ecls for arm? 11:50:54 I've seen reports that it's been done, but I haven't done it personally 11:51:56 the compile is dying on a config test relating to long long 11:52:01 sugarshark [~ole@p4FDA9282.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:59:56 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-116-103.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:35 -!- easyE [QENWSxCCR0@panix3.panix.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:02:30 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.167.225.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:03:23 -!- chittoor [~chittoor@117.204.48.140] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:03:30 sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-116-103.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:03:34 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-oibekbrsaugyqodw] has joined #lisp 12:06:06 Krystof: in CMUCL the first leg has an instance-lambda in it 12:09:42 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 12:11:39 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-184-36.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:12:40 chittoor [~chittoor@117.204.53.29] has joined #lisp 12:13:58 -!- astoon [~astoon@80.78.109.217] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 12:15:43 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 12:16:03 kpreid [~kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net] has joined #lisp 12:17:46 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 12:18:08 yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:23:07 dlowe [~dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:23:18 -!- kejsaren_ [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:23:51 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:26:06 sliq [~sliq@port0165-abr-dynamic-adsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 12:28:27 providing something-futex-like surely sounds nice 12:29:37 Who would be the right person to bug regarding the x86-32 backtrace cut-off? 12:29:46 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:30:02 anyone with the time? 12:30:38 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 12:30:43 that's only one half :-) 12:31:01 well, nyef is a good person to ask 12:31:08 pkhuong and gabor too 12:31:33 i could probably figure it out, but i don't have any immediate guesses 12:32:41 i would start by disassembling the relevant ffi calls on both x86 and x86-64 12:33:34 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 12:34:34 spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has joined #lisp 12:34:52 mega1 [~quassel@53d83473.adsl.enternet.hu] has joined #lisp 12:37:13 yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:37:13 -!- sliq [~sliq@port0165-abr-dynamic-adsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:38:10 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:40:43 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 12:42:34 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:43:47 -!- OmniMancer [~OmniMance@219-89-66-36.ipnets.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:43:50 -!- lnostdal [~5f22c151@gateway/web/freenode/x-girfgcueylvqoprx] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:44:24 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@192.165.126.74] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:44:47 legumbre_ [~leo@r190-135-53-239.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 12:46:47 -!- legumbre [~leo@r190-135-51-32.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:49:06 -!- kwinz3 [~kwinz@mk093111102154.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:50:05 tcr, nyef fixed a few of those backtrace cutoff bugs recently... 12:50:46 sliq [~sliq@port0165-abr-dynamic-adsl.cwjamaica.com] has joined #lisp 12:51:09 -!- sliq [~sliq@port0165-abr-dynamic-adsl.cwjamaica.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:54:56 -!- RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@82.131.64.210.cable.starman.ee] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 12:56:02 -!- jao [~jao@83.50.65.250] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:57:37 Joreji [~thomas@79-187.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:59:37 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:02:25 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-142-222.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 13:02:54 G'morning all. 13:03:19 hello nyef 13:03:59 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 13:04:58 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:10:37 I was thinking about the idea of a CLIM III last night and this morning. 13:11:02 What were you thinking about it? 13:11:53 One, that it might not be a horrible idea later on. 13:12:27 Two, that the use of regions and transformations to -specify- the size and location of a sheet is wrong. 13:12:53 Three, that having sheets and output records be separate class structures is also wrong. 13:13:10 Axius [~hi@109.97.49.111] has joined #lisp 13:13:13 I agree with the latter. 13:13:15 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:13:28 and perhaps the former as well. 13:13:29 -!- khali [~khali@203.171.123.8.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:14:19 Four, there are some things in the CLIM spec that are more an add-on utility library, but are not marked as such. 13:14:44 Table-formatting, for example, or graph layout. 13:15:24 Yeah, they could be separated out. 13:15:42 Almost everything in parts II, III, and IV is still junk, though. 13:15:52 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 13:15:54 -!- Adamant [~Adamant@unaffiliated/adamant] has quit [Quit: Adamant] 13:16:01 amaron [~amaron@cable-89-216-184-36.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 13:16:40 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-oibekbrsaugyqodw] has left #lisp 13:17:00 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:17:29 nyef: have you looked at duim for comparison? 13:17:44 nikodemus: Not recently, if ever. Link? 13:17:44 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:18:05 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 13:18:15 i don't there's a spec as such 13:18:34 That's a bit of a pity. 13:18:42 but the implementation is part of the old functiontal developer download, and there's documentation somewhere 13:19:54 http://www.opendylan.org/documentation/opendylan/dguide/index.htm # has something 13:20:22 *tcr* going to commit try-semaphore 13:20:30 Thanks. And I've found a page on the dylan wiki as well. 13:20:44 i'm mainly asking because scott always says he thinks he got stuff right in DUIM, but i don't think i've seen anyone else familiar with both compare them side by side 13:21:20 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 13:25:20 nikodemus: Is it part of the API of the semaphore function that they return the new count? 13:25:45 udzinari pasted "Can not get slime-startup animation to work.." at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96981 13:25:53 ^^ any ideas? 13:25:56 -!- Axius [~hi@109.97.49.111] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:26:54 tcr: i don't think it's an advertised part of the contract 13:27:10 udzinari: it's in slime-banner contrib 13:28:42 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:30:09 Hrm... Still seems to have the transform/region thing for sheets, of which I'm not a fan. The port thing is one of the few things in silica that I actually -like-, so that's okay... 13:30:18 Complex regions still feels wrong. 13:30:29 stassats`: thanks, adding it to slime-setup did the trick 13:31:41 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 13:32:05 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:32:34 Once again, it's setting sheet-region and sheet-transformation separately. 13:35:00 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 13:35:15 nyef: I think the sheet hierarchy must have an upper layer where only rectangular sheets, integer coordinates, and translation or flipping transformations are allowed. 13:35:51 *nyef* shakes his head. 13:35:57 Need shaped window support. 13:36:40 nyef: That's not excluded. 13:37:03 nyef: Sheets can be partially transparent. 13:37:13 Edward [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-26-4.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:37:54 Part of what annoys me is that you need both the region and the transform to figure out -anything- about a sheet in terms of size or position. 13:38:36 And there's no atomic update for both, you have to update one and then the other. 13:38:55 Why is that a problem? 13:39:00 Heh. Partially transparent to mouse clicks? 13:39:39 -!- attila_lendvai [~ati@89.135.205.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:39:41 -!- abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:39:52 nyef: Sure, why not? 13:39:57 Guthur [~Michael@host81-156-239-195.range81-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:40:11 I'm still unconvinced, but okay. 13:40:22 yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:30 Axius [~hi@109.97.49.111] has joined #lisp 13:42:50 HET2 [~diman@cpc1-cdif12-2-0-cust125.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 13:43:34 tcr: you forgot to update the manual :) 13:44:23 I think I'm used to thinking about window size and position in terms of device coordinates and only device coordinates, and drawing can have certain transforms (but not fully general affine ones) but they are for drawing only, not device events or window positioning, etc. 13:44:59 Sortof a notion that "these are separate things". 13:45:21 tcr: i'm not sure about the comment above the (DECF (SEMAPHORE-WAITCOUNT SEMAPHORE)) 13:45:46 it's not atomic and assumes we are holding the lock 13:46:26 zeroish [~zeroish@c-76-98-192-104.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:39 either it should be ATOMIC-DECF, or it should grab the lock if we are unwinding 13:46:59 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:47:15 jao [~jao@136.Red-88-6-173.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:00 oh, we don't have atomic-decf, only atomic-incf. that's silly 13:48:21 Can you atomic-incf by -1? 13:50:01 LiamH [~nobody@pool-72-75-98-188.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:10 yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:51:40 yes 13:51:55 but not having the DECF version is still an oversight 13:52:07 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 13:52:24 dreish [~dreish@minus.dreish.org] has joined #lisp 13:52:29 not according to whomever designed the Windows interlocked operation API 13:52:45 link? 13:52:46 hm you're right; in my head I had the notion that decf is just one memory operation 13:53:10 anyway it's good I added the comment :-) 13:53:16 quite! 13:53:18 tcr: i'm adding ATOMIC-DECF and can fix that while at it 13:53:44 I have the same bug in my kind-of-reverse-semaphores 13:53:56 nikodemus: they have InterlockedIncrement* but not InterlockedDecrement* 13:54:17 oh, ok. i thought that was an actual expressed design sentiment :) 13:54:30 not that I know of :) 13:54:32 not just an oversight like the current situation in sbcl :) 13:55:01 perhaps they just wanted to mirror the underlying processor instructions, whatever those are 13:55:48 would be nice if atomic-incf worked on with-slots symbol-macros; but that would mean some sort of compiler-support I guess 13:56:00 -!- Axius [~hi@109.97.49.111] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:56:07 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:56:13 as we do not know at macroexpansion time what the slot-value is going to become 13:57:28 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 13:59:10 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 13:59:17 yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:20 cmm: XADD in this case 14:01:39 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 14:06:07 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:09:16 yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:10:26 lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-152-62.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 14:11:24 Axius [~hi@109.97.49.111] has joined #lisp 14:13:11 nikodemus: I find atomic-incf not particularly useful because sb-vm:word is not exported 14:13:29 couldn't atomic-incf work on (and fixnum unsigned-byte) ? 14:14:21 i.e. perform the addition as if sb-vm:word, then type-check for fixnumness? 14:15:25 ... Is there a way to trigger modular arithmetic on signed-byte quantities? 14:15:42 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:16:40 tcr: not if it is to be anywhere near as efficient as XADD 14:16:48 mstevens [~mstevens@212.183.140.17] has joined #lisp 14:17:07 because XADD of a fixnum can produce something that looks like a pointer 14:17:32 but exporting SB-VM:WORD from SB-EXT might not be a bad idea 14:17:59 or SB-EXT:UNSIGNED-WORD for clarity, maybe 14:18:05 *nyef* waits for the inevitable need to export SB-VM:MACHINE-WORD or whatever it's called. 14:18:40 seelenquell [~kvirc@pD9E46419.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:20 yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:20 ignotus [~ignotus@unaffiliated/ignotus] has joined #lisp 14:19:39 hi, is it possible to wake a (sleep)ing thread in SBCL? 14:20:44 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 14:21:45 tcr: to do ATOMIC-INCF on fixnums you need to do (loop (let* ((old (struct-slot struct)) (new (logand most-positive-fixnum (+ old diff)))) (when (= new (sb-ext:compare-and-swap (struct-slot struct) old new)) (return new)))) 14:22:13 ignotus: depends on the reason the thread is sleeping 14:22:34 nikodemus: thread is sleeping in (sleep), probably:) 14:22:43 is it waiting for input? waiting for a mutex to be released? etc. 14:23:06 ignotus: have you checked? 14:23:11 nikodemus: it is a (loop (do-some-work) (sleep 600)) thing 14:23:40 do you want it to loop again, or just kill it? 14:24:03 if you want it to loop again, you need to redesign the loop, pretty much 14:24:38 something like (loop (wait-on-semaphore *work-sem*) (do-some-work)) 14:24:45 nikodemus: simply killing it is not good, because I don't want to kill it if it is in (do-some-work) 14:24:56 in that case I want to wait 14:25:09 nikodemus: oh thanks, checking the wait-on-semaphore 14:26:19 -!- wgl [~wgl@c-98-227-91-74.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:29:41 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:30:45 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 14:30:52 -!- mbohun [~mbohun@ppp115-156.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:31:08 yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:32:00 mcspiff [~user@142.68.146.137] has joined #lisp 14:32:17 is clbuild still an acceptable way to install packages? 14:32:43 mcspiff: yes 14:33:41 somecodehere [~ingvar@16.198.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 14:33:58 Xach: hmm could you do me a favor and try to update cl-base64? im trying to get hunchentoot installed and its telling me the remote end isn't available for that package 14:34:48 mcspiff: no, sorry. 14:35:19 fatal: The remote end hung up unexpectedly 14:35:34 thanks 14:35:35 but that's not clbuild's fault 14:35:39 na i know 14:35:42 in a way 14:35:47 i have a local copy, if you need it 14:35:50 just making sure it didnt have outdated repo's listed 14:36:05 looks like the tarball on cliki is fine, ill just grab that 14:36:08 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Quit: Odin-] 14:37:13 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:39:51 git clone http://git.b9.com/cl-base64.git works 14:39:56 but not git:// 14:40:16 yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:40:33 ahh, that'd do it 14:41:39 lat@lat-desktop:~/clbuild/source/slime$ sh test.sh =====> test.sh: 16: Syntax error: "(" unexpected 14:42:25 when people say "sh" they often mean "bash" 14:42:43 it's #!/bin/bash 14:43:00 MassimoLauria [~user@adsl-ull-223-24.50-151.net24.it] has joined #lisp 14:43:05 yes, but if you run it with "sh" explicitly the shebang line is overridden 14:43:06 -!- Axius [~hi@109.97.49.111] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:44:15 lat: why do you need to run test.sh anyway? 14:45:22 stassats`, C-c C-d d doesn't work in slime 14:45:33 after new install. 14:45:49 that's not a reason to run test.sh 14:45:57 lat: what lisp? 14:46:06 and it doesn't work in what fashion? 14:46:06 mstevens_ [~mstevens@jobs.etla.org] has joined #lisp 14:46:15 stassats`, sbcl. 14:47:18 so, you press it and nothing happens? 14:47:52 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 14:48:42 It says C-c C-d is undefined. 14:49:09 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:49:14 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@212.183.140.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:49:14 -!- mstevens_ is now known as mstevens 14:49:48 are you doing it in the buffer where slime mode is enabled? 14:50:20 -!- mcspiff [~user@142.68.146.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:50:22 No. 14:51:15 here's your problem 14:53:27 -!- Taggnostr [~x@dyn57-487.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:54:44 stassats`, so it is! Everything is simple if you know what to do. :>) Thanks. 14:55:23 konr [~konrad@187.106.53.58] has joined #lisp 14:56:29 jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 14:56:42 I'm studying lisp again after a long delay. 14:57:22 congratulations! 14:58:09 tcr: re. inverse semaphores: http://article.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.steel-bank.devel/11854 14:58:56 I just update sbcl using clbuild, but got version 1.0.36, not version 1.0.37. 14:59:38 did you install it? 14:59:51 beach, thanks. 15:00:23 stassats`, yes. It took quit a while. 15:01:02 and you run ./clbuild lisp and it says 1.0.36? 15:01:08 yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:39 stassats`, yes. 15:02:03 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 15:02:28 stassats`, no, wait ... 15:02:29 -!- lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 15:05:36 lat: the suspense is killing me 15:05:58 stassats`, it say version 1.0.36 that way and directly from the command line. 15:06:43 -!- MassimoLauria [~user@adsl-ull-223-24.50-151.net24.it] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:07:24 -!- lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:07:50 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 15:09:24 Sorry, accidentally killed xchat. 15:09:36 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:09:44 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@190.198.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 15:09:45 no one will cry 15:11:09 yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:17 jan247_ [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has joined #lisp 15:11:20 -!- Joreji [~thomas@79-187.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:14:44 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:14:44 -!- jan247_ is now known as jan247 15:14:45 lat: did you do ./clbuild compile-implementation sbcl? 15:15:30 stassats`, no 15:15:49 well, here's your problem! 15:16:34 wgl [~wgl@c-98-227-91-74.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:16:51 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:17:34 nikodemus: Mine's a little different, it's just one operation incf-and-wait-until-threshold-reached to synchronize a known number of threads 15:17:36 -!- jan247 [~jan247@unaffiliated/jan247] has quit [Quit: jan247] 15:18:58 -!- rares [~rares@174-26-100-200.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:19:08 stassats`, thanks! Compiling now. 15:21:09 yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:13 kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:21 mcspiff [~user@142.68.146.137] has joined #lisp 15:27:54 -!- konr [~konrad@187.106.53.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:28:54 lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has joined #lisp 15:30:27 -!- lexa_ [~lexa_@seonet.ru] has left #lisp 15:31:05 -!- Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has quit [] 15:34:41 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:34:45 stassats`, do I still need to do something else so it will also load when I run from the command line and when I start slime? 15:35:30 Joreji [~thomas@79-187.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:35:37 Madsy [~madman@ti0207a340-0503.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 15:35:37 -!- Madsy [~madman@ti0207a340-0503.bb.online.no] has quit [Changing host] 15:35:37 Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 15:36:13 lat: just try, i don't really use clbuild, so i don't know 15:37:53 balooga [~00u4440@76.194.233.139] has joined #lisp 15:38:33 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@jobs.etla.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:39:21 i use clbuild for libraries, not sbcl, so i don't know either 15:39:44 but i have a faint recollection that there are some actual *docs* 15:41:08 yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:09 mstevens [~mstevens@jobs.etla.org] has joined #lisp 15:43:33 nikodemus, yes, I'm looking for them. 15:44:28 HET4 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:45:08 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 15:45:34 nikodemus: what do you prefer, (defer-deadline nil c), or a new (ignore-deadline c) / (cancel-deadline c) / (continue c) ? 15:47:11 -!- HET3 [~diman@w220.engin.cf.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:48:25 cancel-deadline 15:49:19 synonym for (invoke-restart 'defer-deadline nil), or its own restart? 15:51:28 konr [~konrad@187.106.53.58] has joined #lisp 15:51:38 Hmm. If I have a fairly large text file that has fairly dirty data in it, from a system I can't really customize to fix the dirty data - is there a good way, with readline- to have it read the line, regardless of the encoding system and if something can't be decoded to just use '' for that particular character it can't read? I'm guessing that I could just use straight read to do it, but I'm not sure about readline itself. 15:51:55 -!- mcspiff [~user@142.68.146.137] has left #lisp 15:52:32 :external-format :latin1 is one option 15:53:09 newish sbcl also has the notion of replacement characters 15:55:09 derrida [~derrida@unaffiliated/deleuze] has joined #lisp 15:55:26 Ah ok, I'll give a try to he latin1 one first and see how that works. I got around it a bit by just opening it in textmate. I wish emacs handled what I wanted it to do better. ah well. 15:55:32 Thanks nikodemus 15:56:50 Is using clbuild to build sbcl .. kosher? i did a `./clbuild install sbcl; ./clbuild compile-implementation sbcl;` and the binary that wound up in targets/bin/sbcl drops me to the LDB on execution 15:57:27 TDT: what do you want emacs to handle better? 15:57:36 TDT: i came in too late :) 15:58:09 for some reason i feel confident that emacs shouldn't have a problem with anything textmate does though. :) 15:58:33 sepult` [~user@xdsl-87-78-172-39.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:59:01 -!- somecodehere [~ingvar@16.198.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00:01 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:00:05 derrida: I pasted it to github, one sec....and yeah, I thought emacs would do this too, instead #emacs gave me more like "what do you expect emacs to do with the data" argument http://gist.github.com/346814 16:00:43 -!- sepult [~user@xdsl-87-79-116-103.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:01:27 ace4016 [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-21-246.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:36 The CL solution appears to be working (parser takes about 5m to run), but just for general knowledge I still wouldn't mind knowing how to do this in emacs too. 16:02:06 yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:02:26 gigamonkey [~gigamonke@adsl-99-184-206-92.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:10 derrida: what so, what does the LDB say? 16:04:44 eh, not "so", i ment OS 16:07:00 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 16:08:12 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:09:17 nyef / pkhuong aroundp? 16:09:24 T 16:09:32 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:09:43 care to take a look at x86-64 storew macro? 16:09:59 What about it? 16:10:34 fatal error encountered in SBCL pid 26225(tid 140737353803520): 16:10:36 can't load .core for different runtime, sorry 16:10:37 the first leg writes a constant in memory using two moves 16:10:39 konr1 [~konrad@187.106.53.58] has joined #lisp 16:11:02 nikodemus pasted "this seems saner" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/96984 16:11:05 ah i see the problem :) 16:11:15 original install: This is SBCL 1.0.36 16:11:23 new install: This is SBCL 1.0.36.40 16:11:28 ./clbuild slime-configuration prints out code for .emacs to cause slime to load the correct version of sbcl. Thanks for the help everybody. I'll probably watch the whole slime movie before coming back to bug you guys with more questions. 16:11:49 nikodemus: Yes, but that burns temp-reg-tn. 16:12:03 lat: that's certainly one way :) 16:12:23 And heap memory is write-combining cached anyway, isn't it? 16:12:37 -!- konr [~konrad@187.106.53.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:12:47 maden [~maden@modemcable068.120-20-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 16:13:25 nikodemus: sorry, OS is linux 16:13:28 isn't this just the sort of thing we have temp-reg-tn for in the first place? 16:14:00 I don't know? 16:14:19 write-combining, yeah, i suppose -- but how strong a guarantee is it? 16:14:21 silenius [~silenius@i59F74FB5.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:14:23 And anyway, if you try this you have to check everywhere storew is used to make sure temp-reg-tn isn't live over it. 16:14:44 and there are also interrupts to consider... 16:14:51 -!- Joreji [~thomas@79-187.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:15:01 i checked all uses of temp-reg-tn -- much less of them :) 16:15:09 Heh. Fair enough. 16:15:58 spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.181.103] has joined #lisp 16:17:20 ikki [~ikki@189.247.5.38] has joined #lisp 16:17:51 derrida, I just had the problem before you logged on. I am a newbie. Typing sbcl from the shell still gives me the wrong version of lisp. Does that matter? 16:18:41 mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:54 attila_lendvai [~ati@89.135.205.114] has joined #lisp 16:19:25 i fixed mine 16:19:28 oh 16:19:54 lat: you dont have your .sbclrc configured to look in the clbuild systems folder 16:19:57 if you get the "can't load .core for different runtime, sorry" message, you could do worse than read file INSTALL in the sbcl source directory 16:20:10 -!- mattrepl [~mattrepl@pool-72-83-118-99.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:22:08 yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:31 nikodemus: already fixed it. 16:23:59 derrida and nikodemus , thanks. 16:24:12 nikodemus: 12:11:05 derrida | ah i see the problem :) 16:24:20 subsequent lines show what was wrong 16:25:22 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@gw-fr-vauban1.inka-online.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:25:23 amusing typo: "fix WAIT-ON-SEMAPHORE-BUGLET" 16:25:28 lat: heres my .sbclrc: http://paste.lisp.org/display/96985 16:25:36 rdd [~user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:26:00 derrida: you realize .sbclrc has nothing to do with finding the right core, right? 16:26:11 nikodemus: ... 16:26:16 nikodemus: i'm trying to help lat 16:26:37 nikodemus: i had two mismatched installations of sbcl, one in /usr/local/ and one in ~/.clbuild/source/sbcl 16:26:44 sure 16:26:50 lat has the same issue 16:26:52 "Typing sbcl from the shell still gives me the wrong version of lisp." 16:26:55 no 16:27:11 sounds like he is not specifying his central registry 16:27:28 We really should get the tests infrastructure into shape 16:27:30 maybe just install.sh? 16:27:35 my bad 16:27:40 lat: please lisppaste a terminal session that shows what goes wrong 16:27:42 nikodemus: lat ~~ tdt :P 16:27:50 nikodemus: apologies 16:28:10 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@c-67-170-35-27.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:28:17 tcr: All those tests that ASSERT without being in a WITH-TEST, thus preventing the rest of the file from running if they fail? 16:28:26 lat: `which sbcl` also 16:29:23 nyef: For instance. Also making raises-error? to be signals-condition-p and using that consistently 16:29:42 wormwood_ [~wormwood@pool-70-23-80-233.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:49 sdiawara [~user@212.99.78.121] has joined #lisp 16:30:08 Another bit would be to make with-test expand to a with-timeout and thus abort on hanging 16:31:18 tcr: there are tests that could still hang 16:31:50 Then set up a timer which kills ourselves! 16:31:51 maybe have a parent process ready with kill -9 if a file takes too long instead 16:32:06 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@pool-141-155-38-10.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:34:39 wormwood [~wormwood@pool-141-155-24-162.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:35:32 -!- sdiawara [~user@212.99.78.121] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:35:38 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 16:36:03 Shouldn't be hard, given impure tests. 16:36:26 fisxoj [~fisxoj@80.153.54.203] has joined #lisp 16:36:37 -!- wormwood_ [~wormwood@pool-70-23-80-233.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:36:52 For that matter, you could do something clever in terms of reader hacks and the first form of an impure test file to control appropriate platforms, timeouts, etc. 16:36:58 spradnyesh1 [~pradyus@122.167.93.79] has joined #lisp 16:37:55 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@122.166.181.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:38:12 #+test-runner (:options :timeout-seconds 60) or something at the top of an impure test file, then just bind *features*, with-open-file, and READ the first form in the test-runner. 16:38:32 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:39:18 dnolen [~dnolen@ool-18bc2fa9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:03 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 16:40:35 Soulman__ [~kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 16:40:39 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined 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[~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 16:45:03 blitz_ [~blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 16:45:03 Patzy [~something@coa29-1-88-174-11-170.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:03 guaqua [gua@lakka.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 16:45:07 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@80.153.54.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:45:14 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:45:24 what did you do? 16:45:53 Athas` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 16:46:16 I find the idea of using ASDF in the SBCL test suite to be profoundly bad. 16:47:33 hugod_ [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441684.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 16:47:34 Soulmann [~kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has joined #lisp 16:47:51 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:48:13 -!- Athas` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 16:48:17 toekutr_ [~toekutr@adsl-69-107-143-127.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 16:48:32 well why? 16:48:40 Edward_ [Ed@AAubervilliers-154-1-26-4.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:48:59 It's an extra dependency in something that we use to diagnose problems with the base system. 16:49:35 (Of course, at this point I'm not a big fan of ASDF -anyway-.) 16:50:02 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:50:19 mattrepl [~mattrepl@64.134.66.66] has joined #lisp 16:50:20 beach` [~user@ABordeaux-158-1-110-24.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:50:35 -!- Soulman__ [~kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:50:35 -!- Helheim [~helheim@93.186.169.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:50:46 -!- gonzojive [~red@condi.Stanford.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:50:48 hicx174_ [~hicx174@211.187.100.115] has joined #lisp 16:51:01 Helheim [~helheim@93.186.169.24] has joined #lisp 16:51:09 _ace4016_ [~jmarcelin@adsl-10-21-246.mia.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:21 gonzojive [~red@condi.Stanford.EDU] has joined 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17:09:14 djm [~djm@paludis/slacker/djm] has joined #lisp 17:09:14 KatrinaTheLamia [~root13@li130-87.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 17:09:15 Tabmow [terry@freenode/staff/tabmow] has joined #lisp 17:09:18 -!- nixeagle` [~user@cpe-24-209-52-11.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:09:18 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:09:18 nixeagle [~user@Wikimedia/Nixeagle] has joined #lisp 17:09:57 -!- kejsaren [~kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:10:31 abugosh [~Adium@216-164-114-53.c3-0.tlg-ubr3.atw-tlg.pa.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 17:10:33 -!- Tabmow is now known as Guest20893 17:10:47 nyef: I think no one is :-) 17:10:52 -!- gz [~gz@209-6-40-245.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:11:20 To the point of not using it for new development? 17:11:55 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 17:12:04 _WOG_ [~OsamaBinW@66-168-47-22.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:12:20 rdd` [~rdd@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:12:35 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:41 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:12:56 Khisanth [~Khisanth@pool-141-157-238-16.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:09 nyef: is there anything else to use? 17:13:19 besides mk-defsystem and xcvb 17:13:31 -!- rapacity_ is now known as rapacity 17:13:45 -!- rapacity [~prwg@li30-188.members.linode.com] has quit [Changing host] 17:13:45 rapacity [~prwg@unaffiliated/rapacity] has joined #lisp 17:13:53 nuba_ [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 17:14:05 Good old-fashioned build-system.lisp and load-system.lisp? 17:14:16 pragma__ [~pragma@blackshell.com] has joined #lisp 17:14:26 -!- pragma__ [~pragma@blackshell.com] has quit [Changing host] 17:14:26 pragma__ [~pragma@unaffiliated/pragma/x-109842] has joined #lisp 17:14:32 lat [~lat@125.167.140.159] has joined #lisp 17:14:33 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279441684.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:14:36 Madsy [~madman@ti0207a340-0503.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 17:14:36 -!- Madsy [~madman@ti0207a340-0503.bb.online.no] has quit [Changing host] 17:14:36 Madsy [~madman@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 17:14:47 daniel_ [~daniel@p5082D02B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:50 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 17:14:57 that's good when you don't have dependencies, but those usually already use asdf 17:15:01 xinming_ [~hyy@218.73.133.12] has joined #lisp 17:15:03 akm [~Alan@c-67-180-16-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:09 -!- pragma_ [~pragma@unaffiliated/pragma/x-109842] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:15:14 -!- pragma__ is now known as pragma_ 17:15:15 -!- rdd [~user@c83-250-52-182.bredband.comhem.se] has quit 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quit [*.net *.split] 17:15:16 -!- xinming [~hyy@218.73.133.12] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:15:16 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:15:16 -!- OsamaBinWOG [~OsamaBinW@66-168-47-22.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:15:17 -!- BeZerk [~MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:15:17 -!- delYsid [~user@chello084115136207.3.graz.surfer.at] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:15:17 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.18.80.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:15:17 -!- [df] [~df@bspencer.plus.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:15:17 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:15:17 -!- slather [~slather@haybaler.sackheads.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:15:17 -!- djinni` [~djinni`@li14-39.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:15:17 -!- m4thrick [~mathrick@users177.kollegienet.dk] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:15:17 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@91-66-191-155-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:15:17 -!- froydnj [~froydnj@gateway.codesourcery.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:15:17 -!- bakkdoor [~bakkdoor@s15229144.onlinehome-server.info] has quit [*.net *.split] 17:15:18 -!- rdd` is now known as rdd 17:15:23 BeZerk [~MrEd@about/apple/iPod/BeZerk] has joined #lisp 17:15:35 -!- akm [~Alan@c-67-180-16-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 17:15:53 stassats: That's what REQUIRE is for. :-P 17:16:18 enthymeme [~kraken@cpe-98-148-35-51.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:16:36 hc_e [~hc@pdpc/supporter/active/hc-e] has joined #lisp 17:16:51 The only real problem comes when someone wants to use ASDF to depend on your stuff, for which you can tell them to write their own damned .asd. 17:17:13 Yuuhi [benni@p54839B2A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:18 RaceCondition [~RaceCondi@62.65.43.2] has joined #lisp 17:17:52 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:18:06 -!- synthasee [~synthase@adsl-220-161-36.mob.bellsouth.net] has quit 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nyef: you said that cleanup runs in the same frame as the protected form? 17:28:53 Yeah. Was I wrong? 17:29:10 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 17:30:52 -!- cods [~cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 17:30:53 -!- Soulman__ [~kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:30:53 -!- bytecolor [~user@adsl-71-137-200-22.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 17:30:53 -!- felipe [~felipe@my.nada.kth.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 386 seconds] 17:30:56 cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:56 -!- Xantoz [~hejhej@c-1bb4e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:30:58 Xantoz [~hejhej@c-1bb4e253.01-157-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:31:07 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:31:42 -!- udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:31:49 Kav [~kavinorum@pool-74-103-119-154.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:58 http://paste.lisp.org/display/96988 17:32:00 udzinari [~user@209.158.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 17:32:10 bots seem to be acting lazy again :)