(3466964478 :join "ccl-logbot" nil "n=ccl-logb@setf.clozure.com")
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(3466964478 :names "clarke.freenode.net" "blast_hardcheese emma fgtech metric jrockway vcgomes michaelw Patzy djinni` alexbobp rtoym zeroish joast dfox erg boyscared cataska r0bby j0ni l_a_m ski Fade Axioplase_ luis mle " nil)
(3466964555 :privmsg "deepfire" "Btw, how is a \"double-tree\" (as a reduction from octrees/quadtrees) called properly?" nil)
(3466964584 :privmsg "froydnj" "a binary tree" nil)
(3466964620 :privmsg "rahul" "deepfire: that's what method combinations are for" nil)
(3466964638 :join "rme" nil "n=rme@pool-70-105-92-209.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net")
(3466964657 :join "segoe" nil "n=sg@83.231.42.178")
(3466964671 :privmsg "segoe" "hi" nil)
(3466964694 :privmsg "Shamwow" "hi" nil)
(3466964698 :privmsg "rahul" "deepfire: most of the predefined non-standard combinations call all methods and combine the results using some aggregation function" nil)
(3466964818 :privmsg "deepfire" "rahul, my problem is at class hierarchy level, not gf-related.  I get circularities in class precedence lists." nil)
(3466964850 :privmsg "rahul" "eh?" nil)
(3466964860 :quit "knobo`" "Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)" "n=user@s0023-0003.dsl.start.no")
(3466964882 :join "slash_" nil "n=Unknown@whgeh0250.cip.uni-regensburg.de")
(3466964886 :privmsg "rahul" "deepfire: so you're trying to subclass a class that in turn subclasses you?" nil)
(3466964888 :privmsg "nyef" "deepfire: So... you've got a class hierarchy that isn't a DAG?" nil)
(3466970734 :join "ccl-logbot" nil "n=ccl-logb@setf.clozure.com")
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(3466970734 :names "leguin.freenode.net" "rread hdurer__ abeaumont cmm majhool jsnell Elench ianmcorvidae lnostdal araujo hicx174 C-o-r-E mfo Adrinael nareshov spiaggia tltstc Pepe_ guaqua aja smithzv phadthai minion Orest^bnc xristos deepfire sytse wgl hohum Borbus Xof StanleyD " nil)
(3466970788 :join "konr" nil "n=konrad@201.82.134.163")
(3466971230 :quit "milanj" "\"Leaving\"" "n=milan@212.200.194.148")
(3466971236 :quit "ignas" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt")
(3466971277 :privmsg "serichsen" "luis`: ping" nil)
(3466971313 :quit "kidd" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=kidd@216.Red-88-16-64.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net")
(3466971358 :quit "michaeljaaka" nil "n=michael@167-mo6-7.acn.waw.pl")
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(3466972319 :names "orwell.freenode.net" "p_l mncaudill mogunus blitz_ kleppari bdowning russell_ kiuma manituuuu Adamant slyrus_ saikatc mrsolo zbigniew sepult legumbre psc_bw dstatyvka gz myrkraverk` stassats billstclair nowhereman mikezor proq grouzen wlr ikki Sumpen nipra_ pem luis` Fufie bobbysmith007 rrice udzinari pkhuong Hun bgs100 ia Adlai daniel flatline spacebat trittweiler Summermute madnificent serichsen Taggnostr eihrul mejja thatdavidmiller dmiles_afk yahooooo somnium " nil)
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(3466972319 :names "orwell.freenode.net" "WhiteFlam yacin housel thijso mornfall pok EinarDogfin arbscht qsun fatalnix1995_ schme tsuru` tessier Xach holycow Computer mgr rares Dodek Lycurgus nasloc__ KatrinaTheLamia dek5 huangjs Khisanth robewald bfein sjbach fnordus nimred Aisling Buganini bakkdoor BrianRice erg boyscared cataska r0bby j0ni l_a_m ski Fade Axioplase_ luis mle dfox joast zeroish rtoym alexbobp djinni` Patzy michaelw vcgomes jrockway metric fgtech emma blast_hardcheese " nil)
(3466972319 :names "orwell.freenode.net" "dostoyev1ky mathrick kloeri chii acieroid clog_ qidush_ bohanlon setheus_ cpt_nemo esden foom guenthr Guest67387 herbieB ramus` PissedNumlock tic krappie rsynnott specbot felipe prip _3b` vsync frodef pixel5 " nil)
(3466972337 :privmsg "Sikander" "LiamH: is it there yet? Is it there yet?" nil)
(3466972347 :quit "Krystof" "Read error: 148 (No route to host)" "n=csr21@84-51-132-95.christ977.adsl.metronet.co.uk")
(3466972352 :privmsg "LiamH" "Sikander: error: failed to push some refs to 'ssh://repo.or.cz/srv/git/gsll.git'" nil)
(3466972362 :privmsg "LiamH" "! [rejected]        master -> master (non-fast forward)" nil)
(3466972389 :privmsg "Sikander" ".." nil)
(3466972400 :privmsg "Sikander" "Could it have something to do with the recent updates?" nil)
(3467433658 :join "ccl-logbot" nil "n=ccl-logb@setf.clozure.com")
(3467433658 :rpl_topicwhotime "clarke.freenode.net" "ehu" 3466609881)
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(3467433658 :names "clarke.freenode.net" "Helheim Tordek Elench prip felipe esden foom yacin koning_robot koollman guenthr Demosthenes tufflax Patzy beach rullie fnordus PissedNumlock tic krappie rsynnott acieroid eihrul psc_bw spacebat_ bulibuta hicx174 rotty kloeri chii Ginei_Morioka lemoinem REPLeffect_ rey_ hdurer_ fatalnix1995 schme antifuchs thoolihan wlr araujo bakkdoor xinming ramus` s0ber scode jl_2 wgl rahul qed Adrinael_ Pavitra manituuuu djinni` wentbackward mathrick m4thrick " nil)
(3467433658 :names "clarke.freenode.net" "antgreen Spaghettini gonzojive Computer cmatei liron holycow aja fihi09 herbieB udzinari lharc lukjad007 nyef CrazyEddy ve pixel5 alexbobp peddie sp0_of tessier gz j0ni Fade eno sykopomp mtd arbscht hoeq schaf froydnj AntiSpamMeta piso nicktastic egn rapacity codemonk1yx StanleyD Xof Borbus _deepfire xristos Orest^bnc guaqua Pepe_ tltstc spiaggia jsnell hdurer__ z0d Maddas tvaalen Zhivago tarbo_ maskd Draggor p_l mncaudill bdowning russell_ " nil)
(3467433658 :names "clarke.freenode.net" "zbigniew myrkraverk` pkhuong madnificent authentic anekos retupmoca Bucciarati jyujin johs aking ineiros highb p8m DrForr_ dalkvist_ _3b dcrawford kuwabara housel thijso mornfall pok qsun Lycurgus nasloc__ dek5 Khisanth bfein sjbach nimred Aisling Buganini BrianRice dostoyevsky blast_hardcheese metric michaelw joast dfox erg boyscared cataska l_a_m luis mle " nil)
(3467433663 :privmsg "Adlai" "Original, hit up PCL and get yourself set up with CCL or a free trial of ACL or LispWorks, and you'll see soon enough (round about chapter 9 of PCL) that this is a powerful tool" nil)
(3467433664 :privmsg "Adlai" "minion, tell Original about PCL" nil)
(3467433664 :privmsg "minion" "Original: look at PCL: pcl-book: \"Practical Common Lisp\", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005)." nil)
(3467433666 :privmsg "holycow" "if you want to write code, youcould be writing some now" nil)
(3467433666 :nick "skeptomai|awa-" "skeptomai|away" "n=nnnnnnnn@c-71-227-156-96.hsd1.wa.comcast.net")
(3467433671 :privmsg "Original" "im on closure site" nil)
(3467433673 :privmsg "sykopomp" "although it could just be with the custom body-velocity method, so I don't know :\\" nil)
(3467433676 :privmsg "Adlai" "Original, you can find CCL at ccl.clozure.com" nil)
(3467433677 :join "``Erik" nil "i=Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net")
(3467433679 :privmsg "stassats" "sykopomp: i'm not sure, but it just feels so" nil)
(3467433685 :join "stepnem" nil "n=stepnem@88.103.132.186")
(3467433685 :join "george__" nil "n=george@189.107.129.109")
(3467433695 :privmsg "holycow" "adn if you are on irc researching a language for a 'massive project' i'm starting to feel sorry for your funders" nil)
(3467433739 :privmsg "sykopomp" "holycow: I get the impression he passed troll status a while ago now." nil)
(3467433739 :join "setheus" nil "n=setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com")
(3467433743 :join "joga" nil "i=joga@rikki.fi")
(3467433744 :privmsg "holycow" "indeed" nil)
(3467433747 :privmsg "Adlai" "Original, CCL is much more than a hobby implementation, it has a company (Clozure Associates) that has been developing it for many years (over a decade, I think)" nil)
(3467433757 :join "cmm" nil "n=cmm@bzq-82-81-3-167.red.bezeqint.net")
(3467433768 :privmsg "stassats" "and it has roots in MCL" nil)
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(3467433783 :join "slather" nil "n=slather@haybaler.sackheads.org")
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(3467433794 :privmsg "Adlai" "stassats, bear in mind that recordmydesktop has been screwy for sykopomp, so the recording isn't precise" nil)
(3467433795 :join "qebab" nil "i=finnrobi@caracal.stud.ntnu.no")
(3467433797 :join "Ralith" nil "n=ralith@69.90.49.189")
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(3467433800 :nick "pragma_" "Guest73595" "n=pragma@blackshell.com")
(3467433802 :privmsg "sykopomp" "stassats: does MCL have roots in MacLisp (other than just the CL root)" nil)
(3467433802 :quit "rread" "Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net")
(3467433804 :join "ahaas" nil "n=ahaas@c-71-59-145-125.hsd1.or.comcast.net")
(3467433822 :privmsg "stassats" "sykopomp: i don't know, but i wouldn't think so" nil)
(3467433846 :privmsg "stassats" "mac in maclisp didn't have anything to do with macintosh" nil)
(3467433867 :privmsg "Adlai" "sykopomp, no, it doesn't" nil)
(3467433871 :privmsg "Adlai" "MacLisp is from a project at MIT" nil)
(3467433880 :quit "stepnem" "Excess Flood" "n=stepnem@88.103.132.186")
(3467433908 :privmsg "stassats" "sykopomp: some history on the sidebar: http://www.clozure.com/clozurecl.html" nil)
(3467433910 :join "Tristam" nil "n=Tristam@cpe-72-226-127-57.nycap.res.rr.com")
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(3467433948 :privmsg "Original" "clisp looks interesting" nil)
(3467433985 :privmsg "Adlai" "Original, clisp is very nice and some people swear by it, but it's also less performant than CCL, which runs on Windows too." nil)
(3467434004 :privmsg "Adlai" "clisp could be good for getting started, though" nil)
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(3467434028 :nick "Guest73595" "pragma_" "n=pragma@unaffiliated/pragma/x-109842")
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(3467434058 :quit "cmm-" "Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)" "n=cmm@82.81.3.167")
(3467434065 :privmsg "sohum" "I know usocket, and write-byte and write-line, exist. Is there a write-integer? which layer deals with things like network byte order? what string encoding does write-line use? is there some package on top of usocket that makes sending network data simpler? is there some crucial bit of info I'm missing?" nil)
(3467434071 :quit "metasyntax" "Connection timed out" "n=taylor@75.149.208.121")
(3467434075 :join "lpolzer" nil "n=lpolzer@dslb-088-073-229-239.pools.arcor-ip.net")
(3467434078 :quit "lpolzer_" "Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)" "n=lpolzer@88.73.229.239")
(3467434086 :quit "cods" "Connection timed out" "n=cods@82.241.80.108")
(3467434090 :quit "lichtblau" "Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)" "n=user@port-92-195-56-124.dynamic.qsc.de")
(3467434091 :quit "joga" "Connection timed out" "i=joga@unaffiliated/joga")
(3467434092 :quit "srcerer" "SendQ exceeded" "n=chatzill@dns2.klsairexpress.com")
(3467434093 :quit "Taggnostr" "Connection timed out" "n=x@86.50.68.11")
(3467434094 :privmsg "Original" "you tried newLISP?" nil)
(3467434097 :quit "Drakeson" "Connection timed out" "n=user@69.196.172.71")
(3467434108 :privmsg "sykopomp" "it's not a lisp implementation. It's a different language." nil)
(3467434111 :quit "Modius" "SendQ exceeded" "n=Modius@70.123.130.159")
(3467434113 :privmsg "Adlai" "Original, I think newLISP is far from what you want" nil)
(3467434116 :privmsg "stassats" "Original: you are joking, right?" nil)
(3467434123 :privmsg "Original" "no why" nil)
(3467434125 :join "mejja" nil "n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se")
(3467434131 :privmsg "Adlai" "it's a scripting language" nil)
(3467434131 :action "sykopomp" "keeps falling into the troll's trap :(" nil)
(3467434142 :privmsg "Original" "it says its lisp" nil)
(3467434149 :privmsg "Adlai" "it seems to be that you'd find a compiled CL implementation such as CCL more appealing" nil)
(3467434149 :privmsg "crink" "Original: try BEE lisp or Allegro CL express edition" nil)
(3467434149 :privmsg "Original" "for mac linux and win" nil)
(3467434161 :join "borism" nil "n=boris@213-35-232-204-dsl.end.estpak.ee")
(3467434169 :privmsg "lnostdal" "#lisp is about Common Lisp, Original  .. there's #scheme for Scheme and #clojure for Clojure .. etc. etc." nil)
(3467434171 :privmsg "holycow" "i say stick with .net and go away" nil)
(3467434175 :join "borism_" nil "n=boris@213-35-232-204-dsl.end.estpak.ee")
(3467434185 :privmsg "holycow" "yoru entire endeavour here isn't even marginally usefull to your goal" nil)
(3467434187 :privmsg "Adlai" "Original, \"Lisp\" is a whole family of languages. We use Common Lisp, which is the best variant (if you ask us)" nil)
(3467434207 :quit "stepnem" "Excess Flood" "n=stepnem@88.103.132.186")
(3467434227 :quit "bulibuta" "Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)" "n=bulibuta@unaffiliated/bulibuta")
(3467434234 :join "stepnem" nil "n=stepnem@88.103.132.186")
(3467434234 :privmsg "Original" "ugh, now theres a family of lisp languages ontop of a million different interperters thats all do different stuff" nil)
(3467434238 :join "ejs" nil "n=eugen@77.222.151.102")
(3467434240 :privmsg "holycow" "no" nil)
(3467434247 :privmsg "Original" "you know what lisp needs, uniformity" nil)
(3467434254 :privmsg "antifuchs" "Original: and all that for just a handful of toe nail clippings" nil)
(3467434254 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Original: remember that list of languages you spewed earlier?" nil)
(3467434255 :privmsg "holycow" "there is just a windows coder that doesn't understand" nil)
(3467434261 :privmsg "sykopomp" "that's basically \"the C family of languages\"" nil)
(3467434262 :join "cpt_nemo" nil "i=cpt_nemo@saga.ftbfs.de")
(3467434262 :join "mvilleneuve" nil "n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr")
(3467434263 :privmsg "antifuchs" "Original: lisp really needs you to shut up and do some research" nil)
(3467434264 :privmsg "holycow" "no, what you need is a clue" nil)
(3467434294 :privmsg "Original" "holycow is trolling because I offended his linux roots" nil)
(3467434297 :privmsg "Original" "whats your excuse?" nil)
(3467434303 :privmsg "stassats" "please, go away" nil)
(3467434309 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Original: complaining about lisp being a family of languages is like complaining that there are too many C derivatives because C and Python are too similar :)" nil)
(3467434318 :privmsg "mvilleneuve" "good morning" nil)
(3467434330 :privmsg "holycow" "careful, thats more words in a sentence than he can parse" nil)
(3467434335 :privmsg "Original" "python is far from being similar to c" nil)
(3467434344 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Original: newLISP is far from being similar to CL." nil)
(3467434348 :privmsg "Original" "holycow 1 more and your ignored" nil)
(3467434357 :privmsg "Original" "10 minutes of your crap is more than enough" nil)
(3467434359 :privmsg "Original" "thanks" nil)
(3467434360 :privmsg "Zhivago" "Python is more similar to C than an old sock." nil)
(3467434360 :privmsg "holycow" "lol, awww, hurt your feelings?" nil)
(3467434365 :privmsg "Zhivago" "These are not useful comparisons." nil)
(3467434371 :privmsg "Original" "just isn't necessary" nil)
(3467434373 :join "metasyntax" nil "n=taylor@75-149-208-121-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net")
(3467434385 :privmsg "madnificent" "holycow: hey, be nice.  nobody's perfect :)" nil)
(3467434395 :privmsg "holycow" "all he has to do is try to understand" nil)
(3467434399 :privmsg "holycow" "just 'try'" nil)
(3467434407 :privmsg "holycow" "and indeed" nil)
(3467434414 :join "fiveop" nil "n=fiveop@g229081015.adsl.alicedsl.de")
(3467434422 :privmsg "Adlai" "Original, actually, newLISP and CL are about as different as C and Python. Really." nil)
(3467434425 :privmsg "Zhivago" "If newLisp does what you want, then that's great." nil)
(3467434487 :privmsg "Original" "lispworks looks good" nil)
(3467434514 :quit "boyscared" "Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)" "n=bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net")
(3467434527 :privmsg "lnostdal" "if you can't handle simple facts or answers to your questions without having a mental overload (yes; the world _is huuuge_) then perhaps programming big projects isn't for you (and yeah, even linux; this is freenode, remember -- isn't for you either ..) :P" nil)
(3467434544 :privmsg "madnificent" "Original: in case it wasn't clear:  #lisp talks about Common Lisp, which is a (well, the best, clearly) dialect of lisp.  There are many lisps available, just as there are many algol-descendents.  Besides that: most lispers write libraries as they go.  You may win the time it took you to wrote the library back, when the language allows you to be much more expressive" nil)
(3467434584 :privmsg "lnostdal" "there's no need to go all *wave arms* for this ..  yes, most here use linux .. yes, there are several CL implementations (but a _single_ standard) .. yes there are several lisp dialects (but this channel is about common lisp) .." nil)
(3467434591 :privmsg "madnificent" "minion: tell Original about Common Lisp Implementation" nil)
(3467434592 :privmsg "minion" "Original: please see Common Lisp Implementation: Free Common Lisp implementations and their *features*. http://www.cliki.net/Common%20Lisp%20Implementation" nil)
(3467434631 :privmsg "lnostdal" "ha .. we said almost the same thing there, madnificent" nil)
(3467434640 :privmsg "Original" "A 32-bit 'Hello World' console application can be as small as 3-4MB on disk, depending on platform" nil)
(3467434641 :privmsg "Original" "wtf!" nil)
(3467434653 :privmsg "stassats" "sigh..." nil)
(3467434657 :privmsg "Adlai" "Original, also, there are many libraries for Common Lisp that do INTERESTING things. Granted, if you want to speak .NET protocol xyz over an abc connection to a foo SOAP server, you might be shit outta luck." nil)
(3467434663 :privmsg "Original" "that's madness" nil)
(3467434672 :privmsg "Zhivago" "original: So, pick another implementation ..." nil)
(3467434676 :privmsg "madnificent" "Adlai: SOAP exists for common lisp, I think... drewc knew all about it :)" nil)
(3467434682 :privmsg "Adlai" "Original, Common Lisp is not for writing Hello World applications." nil)
(3467434684 :privmsg "Adlai" "Common Lisp is for building organisms." nil)
(3467434686 :privmsg "Original" "A 64-bit 'Hello World' console application can be as small as 6.5-7.5MB on disk" nil)
(3467434691 :privmsg "Original" "incredible" nil)
(3467434694 :privmsg "Original" "that's madness" nil)
(3467434700 :privmsg "madnificent" "Original: no, it is not... actually :)  That is to say: your hello world application contains a repl, which allows you to calculate stuff :)" nil)
(3467434716 :quit "Axius" "\"Leaving\"" "n=ade@92.84.11.105")
(3467434724 :privmsg "lnostdal" "Original, did you even stop to consider why this is the case? .. please stop waving your arms; no one here consider this a real problem" nil)
(3467434738 :privmsg "Original" "I know what the reason is" nil)
(3467434739 :privmsg "Adlai" "madnificent, yes, but I'm not aware of a CL implementation of .NET protocol xyz... although maybe RDNZL supports it!" nil)
(3467434740 :privmsg "holycow" "lol" nil)
(3467434746 :privmsg "Zhivago" "original: So, what is the reason?" nil)
(3467434749 :privmsg "holycow" "this is kind of entertaining" nil)
(3467434756 :privmsg "holycow" "watching his brain explode like a bag of popcorn" nil)
(3467434757 :privmsg "holycow" "hehe" nil)
(3467434761 :privmsg "Adlai" "Original, I'll say it again -- Common lisp is NOT for writing hello-world apps." nil)
(3467434762 :privmsg "madnificent" "Original: besides that: haskell provides you with even bigger binaries, and most of the data is a fixed overhead.  That means that you loose the first few megabytes, but the binary grows like in C-like languages for other things you do." nil)
(3467434766 :privmsg "Original" "it tosses all its crap in ahead of time, kinda like delphi, the size doesnt increase incremently like that afterwards" nil)
(3467434773 :privmsg "Original" "but it still being that size is ridiculous" nil)
(3467434787 :privmsg "Zhivago" "original: So, pick another implementation." nil)
(3467434831 :privmsg "Original" "zhivago people say this the best one for windows" nil)
(3467434832 :privmsg "Original" ":(" nil)
(3467434861 :privmsg "holycow" "welcome to the world of no one gives a fuck" nil)
(3467434862 :privmsg "holycow" "lol" nil)
(3467434881 :privmsg "Original" "I told you once more didn't I?" nil)
(3467434884 :privmsg "Original" "goodbye holycow" nil)
(3467434893 :privmsg "holycow" "*oooo*" nil)
(3467434904 :privmsg "lnostdal" "heh" nil)
(3467434920 :privmsg "holycow" "windows users, a little bellow retarded.  hey, so tell us what happened, #efnet didn't want you either?" nil)
(3467434967 :privmsg "madnificent" "Original: tell me, why are you interested in CL?" nil)
(3467435001 :privmsg "Original" "because its the 1 language I haven't touched on, yet hear a lot about from geeks" nil)
(3467435011 :privmsg "Original" "like it's the greatest thing ever since slice bread" nil)
(3467435021 :privmsg "Original" "so i'm here to find out what makes it so great" nil)
(3467435045 :privmsg "madnificent" "Original: well, it is great because of the constructs the language gives you to express what your program is doing" nil)
(3467435045 :privmsg "holycow" "unfortunately, there is no cure for dumbass" nil)
(3467435047 :privmsg "Adlai" "Original, check out http://piano.aero/" nil)
(3467435053 :privmsg "Adlai" "yes, that's a URL :)" nil)
(3467435054 :privmsg "lnostdal" "hm, haskell and erlang and many more is also missing from your previously mentioned list" nil)
(3467435096 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Original: I think my favorite part of CL is the fact that you don't know it." nil)
(3467435097 :privmsg "sykopomp" ":D" nil)
(3467435108 :nick "daniel_" "daniel" "i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel")
(3467435110 :privmsg "lnostdal" "haha" nil)
(3467435121 :privmsg "madnificent" "Original: so, it allows to define your application on a higher level.  The low-level machine-stuff is possible (yes, really!) in lisp (it does everything, if you search a bit) but it generally is special because of its macro's." nil)
(3467435131 :privmsg "lnostdal" "the smugness; it's infinite :)" nil)
(3467435178 :privmsg "Original" "you guys written anything big in it?" nil)
(3467435213 :privmsg "lnostdal" "did you see http://wiki.alu.org/RtL%20Highlight%20Film .. wrt. your question \"what makes it so great\", Original ? ..  also the first chapter in the PCL book talks about this; http://gigamonkeys.com/book/introduction-why-lisp.html ..   there really is no point wasting time on IRC wrt. this" nil)
(3467435214 :privmsg "madnificent" "Original: lisp allows you to constantly redefine the available constructs in the language, to fit your application's needs.  That may sound a bit like an intoxicated coder, but it works really simple (and transparent!) whilst you're working in it" nil)
(3467435257 :privmsg "Zhivago" "mad: Only until you compile a file :)" nil)
(3467435257 :join "boyscared" nil "n=bm3719@c-68-32-124-6.hsd1.va.comcast.net")
(3467435269 :privmsg "madnificent" "Original: there are rather big projects written in lisp.  Examples include control systems of nuclear power plants.  I've written a POS system in it, there are many many other projects available" nil)
(3467435276 :quit "setheus" "Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com")
(3467435279 :privmsg "madnificent" "Zhivago: ?" nil)
(3467435297 :privmsg "madnificent" "Zhivago: oh, yeah well... if you have a repl, you can toy around :)" nil)
(3467435297 :privmsg "Zhivago" "Haven't you read about the constraints upon redefinition that compile-file imposes?" nil)
(3467435309 :privmsg "Adlai" "Original, google for ITA" nil)
(3467435338 :privmsg "madnificent" "Zhivago: no, actually... I haven't.  I didn't mean constantly redefine in that way anyways, but I guess I should read it" nil)
(3467435340 :privmsg "stassats" "madnificent: repl on a nuclear power plant should be fun" nil)
(3467435363 :privmsg "Zhivago" "I think that for a nuclear power-plant I'd prefer haskell." nil)
(3467435380 :privmsg "lnostdal" "isn't Ada used for stuff like that?" nil)
(3467435380 :privmsg "Adlai" "stassats, well they've had REPLs 100 million miles away on $100M hardware..." nil)
(3467435389 :privmsg "holycow" "heh" nil)
(3467435390 :privmsg "lisppaste" "dmiles pasted \"found my merge of the lisp vm and prolog vm\" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/90565" nil)
(3467435394 :privmsg "holycow" "true enough" nil)
(3467435404 :privmsg "madnificent" "stassats: available restarts:  [0] Continue meltdown [1] Restart meltdown [2] Shout out to lisp code [3] Alien power magick dust all-problem-solver" nil)
(3467435412 :privmsg "Zhivago" "Or, maybe not, given its hard to predict latencies." nil)
(3467435417 :privmsg "holycow" "madnificent: hehehehe!" nil)
(3467435459 :privmsg "Original" "cool" nil)
(3467435464 :privmsg "holycow" "unfortunately i don't have too much patience for windows coders" nil)
(3467435470 :privmsg "holycow" "it takes them so long to unlearn so much" nil)
(3467435473 :privmsg "madnificent" "Zhivago: lisp's garbage collector may run too... however for all time-critical RT things, dedicated controllers are used (at least, I may hope so in a nuclear power plant)" nil)
(3467435486 :join "tcr" nil "n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de")
(3467435489 :privmsg "Adlai" "madnificent, conforming programs are encouraged to make an ABORT restart available..." nil)
(3467435492 :privmsg "Zhivago" "madnificent: Well, I wasn't going to suggest lisp, either." nil)
(3467435510 :privmsg "Zhivago" "I was thinking more along the lines of Coq generated assembly." nil)
(3467435520 :privmsg "madnificent" "Original: if you're interested into languages (like I used to be) you may want to look at lisp... ensure you think you understand it all, believe it is crap.  Come back a year later to learn it all again, and hopefully understand what you've been missing out on in the past" nil)
(3467435530 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Adlai: condition MELTDOWN is a subclass of condition PROGRAM-ERROR" nil)
(3467435534 :privmsg "sykopomp" "what now, bitch?!" nil)
(3467435539 :privmsg "sykopomp" "UH UH" nil)
(3467435545 :privmsg "Zhivago" "Anyhow, there are real-time GCs, so ..." nil)
(3467435579 :privmsg "Zhivago" "dmiles: How is opencyc doing?" nil)
(3467435591 :privmsg "madnificent" "Zhivago: the problem is that you don't know when it will run (at least not if you don't know the implementation it will run on... which they probably know)" nil)
(3467435605 :privmsg "Original" "madnificent if its so great howcome google, microsoft etc haven't picked it up? most amazing languages that have with visual studios, google uses python alot, php obvious a biggy, c is without question by countless" nil)
(3467435606 :quit "rread" "Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net")
(3467435613 :privmsg "Zhivago" "madnificent: Given a real-time GC, I know exactly when it will run." nil)
(3467435624 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Original: because of people like you." nil)
(3467435626 :privmsg "sykopomp" "clearly" nil)
(3467435633 :privmsg "Original" "people like me?" nil)
(3467435636 :privmsg "sykopomp" "in any case, Peter Norvig works for Google." nil)
(3467435637 :privmsg "madnificent" "Original: well, there has been the AI winter, for which lisp took the blame (not correct).  And really, where are you going to find lisp programmers?" nil)
(3467435637 :privmsg "Zhivago" "madnificent: Generally it is at the point of memory allocation." nil)
(3467435656 :privmsg "madnificent" "Original: a stupid question about the same thing:  Do you believe in God?" nil)
(3467435660 :privmsg "dmiles_afk" "Zhivago: opencyc.. ok.. researchcyc.. better  larkc.. even better" nil)
(3467435663 :privmsg "nunb" "Original: you are an idiot. That was a non-sequitur." nil)
(3467435668 :privmsg "Adlai" "Original, you have to invest a bit of time to learning CL before you can appreciate its power" nil)
(3467435681 :privmsg "Zhivago" "The fact of the matter is that most of the people doing interesting work have moved to haskell or java or ..." nil)
(3467435683 :privmsg "guaqua" "Original: php is a 'biggy' at google?" nil)
(3467435687 :privmsg "stassats" "Adlai: like a couple of years" nil)
(3467435701 :privmsg "Zhivago" "Many of the advantages of CL have diminished as the rest of the world has caught up." nil)
(3467435703 :privmsg "Original" "what's with the constant flaming? perhaps it's not people like me, but people like you,  i'm asking legit questions" nil)
(3467435704 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Zhivago: people do interesting work in haskell? I thought haskell was just for mathematicians and wankers." nil)
(3467435705 :privmsg "dmiles_afk" "Zhivago: i am working on making cyc store its rules in a ffi prolog database" nil)
(3467435709 :privmsg "nunb" "Original: if you hope to learn don't say silly things, or at least, phrase them better!" nil)
(3467435715 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Original: no you're not." nil)
(3467435719 :privmsg "Zhivago" "original: You are one of the people doing the flaming." nil)
(3467435728 :join "rread" nil "n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net")
(3467435729 :privmsg "Adlai" "stassats, I don't think that's always true" nil)
(3467435732 :privmsg "Zhivago" "original: Stop throwing tantrums, and ask sensible questions." nil)
(3467435732 :privmsg "madnificent" "Original: I was serious: do you believe in god?" nil)
(3467435739 :privmsg "dmiles_afk" "Zhivago: is it can hit prolog unification when needed" nil)
(3467435746 :privmsg "lnostdal" "Original, how come Britney Spears sells more music than <pretty much any artist> ..?" nil)
(3467435758 :privmsg "nunb" "Original: python has unicorns, rails are strewn with roses. All we have is a dead horse that smells. It's not nice, is it? So go away." nil)
(3467435762 :privmsg "madnificent" "lnostdal: isn't she virtually dead yet? or something like that?" nil)
(3467435762 :privmsg "lnostdal" "Original, (i meant _good_ artist .. obviously)" nil)
(3467435768 :privmsg "Original" "i'm not flaming i'm asking questions about the language, and you're responding with personal attacks, you know what that says? alot" nil)
(3467435772 :privmsg "sykopomp" "stassats: CL is the first language I really learned. I was quite happy with it after only a couple of months :)" nil)
(3467435772 :privmsg "Zhivago" "dmiles: Cool." nil)
(3467435778 :privmsg "guaqua" "nunb: :) the lisp defense-mechanism against...." nil)
(3467435785 :privmsg "madnificent" "Original: I'm not giving you a personal attack!  I'm trying to show something!" nil)
(3467435785 :privmsg "nunb" "madnificient: depends.. how is the corn growing this year?" nil)
(3467435787 :privmsg "Zhivago" "original: Stop whining and learn how to spell \"a lot\"." nil)
(3467435788 :action "holycow" "refills the popcorn" nil)
(3467435792 :privmsg "sykopomp" "you might need several years to know the hyperspec in and out, I guess, but you can most certainly build useful things way before that." nil)
(3467435794 :privmsg "lnostdal" "madnificent, one could hope .. heh :)" nil)
(3467435801 :privmsg "madnificent" "lnostdal: :P" nil)
(3467435821 :privmsg "tcr" "Original: Beware of the newbs." nil)
(3467435846 :privmsg "stassats" "sykopomp: and in the meantime someone on irc will say \"hey, it could be written in a one line instead of 10\"" nil)
(3467435850 :privmsg "Original" "look you may all feel like you're superior to none lisp coders, that's fine, but what i'm saying is, if its so great how come it's not more readily backed by a heavyweight, keep in mind even" nil)
(3467435853 :privmsg "Adlai" "sykopomp, bullshit, Sheeple wasn't useful until I sprinkled magic mold dust all over it" nil)
(3467435856 :join "dto" nil "n=dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net")
(3467435861 :join "ejs1" nil "n=eugen@nat.ironport.com")
(3467435868 :privmsg "madnificent" "Original: again: do you believe in god... I'm going to show you why not" nil)
(3467435873 :privmsg "Original" "though I make a lot more money than you, know a lot more languages than you, are most likely a lot more educated, you're still apparently smarter than me" nil)
(3467435880 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Adlai: screw you, it's still not useful. Your mold dust is also memory-leaky." nil)
(3467435882 :privmsg "Original" "I don't know lisp, that's why i'm here askin questions" nil)
(3467435882 :privmsg "madnificent" "Original: but you need to answer, because it doesn't make sense otherwise :)" nil)
(3467435884 :privmsg "Zhivago" "original: Oh, stop whining." nil)
(3467435894 :privmsg "Zhivago" "original: Your ego problems are of no interest." nil)
(3467435907 :privmsg "Original" "it's not my ego that's in question" nil)
(3467435909 :privmsg "Original" "obviously" nil)
(3467435916 :privmsg "Adlai" "stassats, if the student has the right approach, he will embrace the learning opportunity..." nil)
(3467435916 :privmsg "holycow" "hahahaha" nil)
(3467435920 :privmsg "Zhivago" "original: Then stop talking about it, and start asking sensible questions." nil)
(3467435921 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Original: you're hilarious." nil)
(3467435928 :privmsg "holycow" "ah man, dumbass keeps on digging.  hows it feel Original?" nil)
(3467435933 :privmsg "holycow" "i know you are still reading" nil)
(3467435945 :privmsg "Adlai" "Original, I think ITA and Lyssys count as heavyweights" nil)
(3467435952 :privmsg "lnostdal" "Original, face it; most people (programmers too) are stupid ..  and in particular the ones making (backing type) decisions are even more stupid/clueless ..   ref. my analogy it is harder to play jazz music (programmers), and it is harder to sell jazz music (decision makers/sellers)" nil)
(3467435959 :privmsg "Original" "why hasn't a heavyweight, who's picked up every other language on the planet hasn't touched lisp is a sensible question?" nil)
(3467435960 :privmsg "madnificent" "Original: also: #lisp has a strange way of interacting with people... we pose more exact questions than in most other channels.  And discussions are rarely this far from CL... so expect to have a hard time... flaming back to users also doesn't help (even though we make fun of newcomers from time to time, that'll change as you go :))" nil)
(3467435966 :privmsg "guaqua" "Original: you are not going to get answers to questions you don't research beforehand. go see cliki" nil)
(3467435979 :privmsg "Original" "calling the world stupid, isn't really a good response" nil)
(3467435980 :privmsg "nunb" "This is entertaining, but will someone chuck Original out? I just read the backlog, he's trolling, pure and simple.." nil)
(3467435981 :privmsg "Original" ":\\" nil)
(3467435982 :privmsg "Zhivago" "original: And what is a 'heavyweight' here? The DARPA?" nil)
(3467435985 :join "Taggnostr" nil "n=x@dyn57-11.yok.fi")
(3467435990 :privmsg "madnificent" "Original: why don't you respond to anyone asking you anything here?" nil)
(3467436003 :privmsg "holycow" "seconding nunb" nil)
(3467436005 :privmsg "madnificent" "Original: afaict right now, you're just being pissed because you want to be pissed?" nil)
(3467436010 :privmsg "Original" "Zhivago: google, microsoft, ibm, intel, delphi etc..." nil)
(3467436012 :action "nunb" "reaches for the Laphroaig, but it's a little early for entertainment" nil)
(3467436018 :privmsg "madnificent" "Original: has your wife left you or anything?  child been killed... something like that" nil)
(3467436021 :privmsg "madnificent" "Original: are you bill gates?" nil)
(3467436046 :privmsg "Original" "so even you're trollin now?" nil)
(3467436050 :part "nunb" nil "n=nundan@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it")
(3467436053 :join "jdz" nil "n=jdz@85.254.211.133")
(3467436058 :privmsg "Zhivago" "original: Interestingly, ibm did make a lisp." nil)
(3467436059 :privmsg "Adamant" "MS has used Lisp and Haskell" nil)
(3467436061 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Original: Mozilla? Yahoo? ITA? NASA? Your Mom? Any of those ring a bell?" nil)
(3467436061 :privmsg "madnificent" "Original: you don't respond to my questions... and you keep spamming... why shouldn't I troll back" nil)
(3467436064 :privmsg "stassats" "Original: look what you did" nil)
(3467436073 :privmsg "Adamant" "IIRC so has Intel" nil)
(3467436075 :privmsg "madnificent" "this is where I am allowed to troll... I virtually live here :)" nil)
(3467436077 :privmsg "Zhivago" "original: However, there's a simple answer -- lisp is not good for bad programmers." nil)
(3467436078 :privmsg "tic" "What's new in the Lisp world?" nil)
(3467436078 :privmsg "Original" "ok, great, why couldn't you just say that the first 3 times I asked about it?" nil)
(3467436083 :privmsg "Original" "why you need to troll me?" nil)
(3467436092 :privmsg "splittist" "Original: social questions (why is X popular? why did corporation Y do Z?) do not have technical answers. Why is Dan Brown popular? Why doesn't Google fix Google Groups?" nil)
(3467436094 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Original: you're being a wanker :)" nil)
(3467436100 :privmsg "Zhivago" "original: It gives too much help in writing extremely weird code." nil)
(3467436105 :privmsg "madnificent" "Original: because you don't answer my question... and you keep asking the same question which I'm trying to answer :)" nil)
(3467436111 :privmsg "Original" "it's a lot easier just to give a reasonable answer to a reasonable question instead of trying to be funny with your nerd rage" nil)
(3467436112 :privmsg "madnificent" "Original: will we try again?" nil)
(3467436114 :privmsg "Original" "cause you're not." nil)
(3467436122 :privmsg "Zhivago" "original: As opposed to java, which is a lovely language for corporate developers." nil)
(3467436123 :quit "rread" "Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net")
(3467436127 :privmsg "guaqua" "splittist++" nil)
(3467436136 :privmsg "madnificent" "Original: will wy try to solve your question again?" nil)
(3467436140 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Original: assembly is a pretty shitty language to write anything but tow strlens in." nil)
(3467436142 :privmsg "madnificent" "in a humane manner :)" nil)
(3467436149 :privmsg "Zhivago" "original: So, you've gotten over the screaming and rolling on the floor over binary sizes, then?" nil)
(3467436154 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Original: seriously. What have you ever coded in assembly? A message box?" nil)
(3467436157 :privmsg "guaqua" "or better yet, incf :)" nil)
(3467436164 :privmsg "tcr" "People give him a break." nil)
(3467436170 :privmsg "madnificent" "(incf tcr)" nil)
(3467436174 :privmsg "tcr" "and me too" nil)
(3467436179 :privmsg "madnificent" "tcr: but I am willing to honoustly answer his question" nil)
(3467436183 :privmsg "stassats" "snr is crying" nil)
(3467436198 :privmsg "Original" "skyopomp that's a common misconception but entirely wrong, masm macro capabilities are insane, and considering all I need to do is include a dll, then call its function, on a single line, no defining" nil)
(3467436206 :privmsg "Original" "i'd say it's a lot easier than lisp atm" nil)
(3467436210 :privmsg "tic" "masm? I thought this was #lisp." nil)
(3467436213 :join "rread" nil "n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net")
(3467436215 :privmsg "Original" "guess how large my executables on linux and win are? 1kb" nil)
(3467436218 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Original: I don't believe you. ASM is garbage. Why doesn't everyone just write everything in ASM?" nil)
(3467436218 :privmsg "Original" "not 3mbs" nil)
(3467436218 :join "nunb" nil "n=nundan@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it")
(3467436231 :privmsg "sykopomp" "I don't want to have to write 10k lines of code just so I can say hello world." nil)
(3467436245 :privmsg "Original" "skyopomp cause they're scared of \"low level\" but masm provides lot of high level stuff" nil)
(3467436247 :privmsg "sykopomp" "I don't think you actually know assembly, either. I think you'er full of it." nil)
(3467436256 :join "grouzen" nil "n=grouzen@91.214.124.2")
(3467436257 :privmsg "sykopomp" "I'm not afraid of the low level. I just value my time." nil)
(3467436259 :privmsg "madnificent" "Original: that has been answered before... don't keep talking about it... that is trolling :)" nil)
(3467436262 :privmsg "Original" "not only do I know it, i've created an entire SDK" nil)
(3467436272 :privmsg "Original" "you?" nil)
(3467436273 :privmsg "Original" "thought so" nil)
(3467436275 :privmsg "sykopomp" "to do what? count to 10?" nil)
(3467436278 :privmsg "holycow" "hahaha" nil)
(3467436278 :privmsg "madnificent" "(an SDK for ASM, isn't that like doing nothing?)" nil)
(3467436279 :privmsg "Zhivago" "original: I guess that you haven't, yet." nil)
(3467436283 :privmsg "holycow" "ah man, this just gets better" nil)
(3467436292 :privmsg "holycow" "the dude that created the masm sdk DOESN'T know about lisp" nil)
(3467436292 :privmsg "Original" "no full blow GUI applications with hybrid 32bit/64bit code" nil)
(3467436300 :privmsg "holycow" "all these years later, he's never even googled it" nil)
(3467436302 :privmsg "holycow" "wow" nil)
(3467436304 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Original: full blown GUI?" nil)
(3467436305 :privmsg "Original" "drivers, directx, com, winsock etc..." nil)
(3467436308 :privmsg "Zhivago" "original: How exciting for you." nil)
(3467436308 :privmsg "Original" "yes" nil)
(3467436310 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Original: so you wrote an SDK that pops up message boxes?" nil)
(3467436312 :privmsg "sykopomp" "that sounds badass." nil)
(3467436314 :privmsg "holycow" "if he actually worked on windows, explains a lot" nil)
(3467436316 :privmsg "lnostdal" "someone should just end this or something .. *sigh* .. this is just painful and funny to watch at the same time x)" nil)
(3467436316 :privmsg "sykopomp" "it must have taken you an eternity." nil)
(3467436320 :privmsg "Zhivago" "original: Why should we care?" nil)
(3467436322 :privmsg "Original" "I bet my apps run a lot faster than anything you could write in lisp" nil)
(3467436325 :privmsg "Original" "and are smaller" nil)
(3467436335 :privmsg "Original" "lisp even support mmx? sse2+" nil)
(3467436337 :privmsg "Original" "doubt it" nil)
(3467436337 :privmsg "holycow" "so how do we get the attention of ops?  this really has gone long enough?" nil)
(3467436339 :privmsg "jdz" "Original: i bet the opposite." nil)
(3467436340 :privmsg "Adlai" "Original, can you do Aspect-Oriented Programming in masm?" nil)
(3467436346 :privmsg "Zhivago" "Do you want him banned?" nil)
(3467436346 :privmsg "Original" "probably" nil)
(3467436349 :privmsg "guaqua" "this calls for a /kick" nil)
(3467436351 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Original: I heard ASM is for people that like to pretend they're programming, but really just want to type a lot to write very inane things. Is this true?" nil)
(3467436361 :privmsg "holycow" "i'm not evil.  i think a good kick is enough" nil)
(3467436362 :privmsg "Zhivago" "Do I hear a second?" nil)
(3467436364 :quit "ejs" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=eugen@77.222.151.102")
(3467436365 :privmsg "madnificent" "sigh, flames are not fun" nil)
(3467436368 :action "nunb" "seconds" nil)
(3467436370 :mode "ChanServ" "+o Zhivago" "ChanServ@services.")
(3467436372 :privmsg "lnostdal" "why are you even considering lisp and other languages, then, Original ?" nil)
(3467436373 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Original: please answer my question. I am honestly curious." nil)
(3467436373 :privmsg "guaqua" "Original: social issues" nil)
(3467436377 :privmsg "Original" "nice, support the trolls" nil)
(3467436378 :privmsg "Original" "ban the winner" nil)
(3467436380 :privmsg "Original" "good plan" nil)
(3467436386 :kick "Zhivago" "Original" "Think")
(3467436391 :privmsg "tcr" "Notice that you people yourself made him so defensive." nil)
(3467436392 :privmsg "sykopomp" "damn. I was on a roll :(" nil)
(3467436405 :privmsg "sykopomp" "tcr: nah, he was being a douchebag." nil)
(3467436418 :privmsg "stassats" "#lisp is cannot resist trolls" nil)
(3467436424 :privmsg "Adlai" "Original, SBCL supports SSE" nil)
(3467436425 :privmsg "sykopomp" "it's true. They're too much fun." nil)
(3467436429 :privmsg "holycow" "well i fall into that category indeed" nil)
(3467436430 :privmsg "Zhivago" "There was considerable immaturity from all directions." nil)
(3467436433 :nick "cods_" "cods" "n=cods@tuxee.net")
(3467436434 :privmsg "jdz" "Adlai: too late" nil)
(3467436445 :privmsg "tcr" "Zhivago: Indeed." nil)
(3467436530 :privmsg "holycow" "i won't defend my self.  someone of his supposed caliber should have easily slipped into sbcl and really asked some good questions" nil)
(3467436549 :privmsg "Adlai" "bleh, my connection had to be choppy just then." nil)
(3467436554 :privmsg "sykopomp" "I personally think he deserves points for trolling so well." nil)
(3467436561 :action "Adlai" "grumbles about wireless internet and fades away" nil)
(3467436579 :privmsg "guaqua" "he wasn't bad at all. somew" nil)
(3467436588 :privmsg "guaqua" "argh, premature C-m :(" nil)
(3467436606 :privmsg "stassats" "considering that you still discuss him" nil)
(3467436610 :quit "Retardedpope" "\"Leaving.\"" "n=Retarded@c-66-56-9-145.hsd1.ga.comcast.net")
(3467436624 :privmsg "lnostdal" "imagine what the follow-up would be; \"Emacs!? ..are you insane! .. that's like, old!\"" nil)
(3467436635 :privmsg "guaqua" "someone once told me, when you are arguing with 'retards', they will take you down to their level and kill you with exp" nil)
(3467436636 :quit "_8david" "\"ERC Version 5.3 (devel) (IRC client for Emacs)\"" "n=user@port-92-195-56-124.dynamic.qsc.de")
(3467436658 :join "lichtblau" nil "n=user@port-92-195-56-124.dynamic.qsc.de")
(3467436658 :privmsg "Adamant" "when you wrassle a pig, the pig has fun and you get dirty" nil)
(3467436672 :privmsg "sykopomp" "clhs exp" nil)
(3467436672 :privmsg "specbot" "http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_exp_e.htm" nil)
(3467436676 :privmsg "sykopomp" "^ with that?" nil)
(3467436677 :privmsg "guaqua" "that's better" nil)
(3467436691 :privmsg "holycow" "the psychology here is interesting" nil)
(3467436697 :quit "lichtblau" "Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=user@port-92-195-56-124.dynamic.qsc.de")
(3467436703 :privmsg "guaqua" "sykopomp: i'd guess exp in this context means experience collected in some mmorpg" nil)
(3467436705 :privmsg "tcr" "stassats: I might have some time today for looking into slime-isearch-system / slime-query-replace-system" nil)
(3467436717 :privmsg "holycow" "here == previous guest" nil)
(3467436723 :join "lichtblau" nil "n=user@port-92-195-56-124.dynamic.qsc.de")
(3467436784 :privmsg "stassats" "tcr: i'll later commit a faster version of asdf-determine-system" nil)
(3467436931 :privmsg "guaqua" "social and technical issues, so hard distinguish from each other. it seems to be even harder to keep to one of those. and off course, regularly you run into people who have never even thought that social issues might even affect the language choice" nil)
(3467436956 :quit "Adlai" "Remote closed the connection" "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467436994 :join "Adlai" nil "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467437013 :join "Dodek" nil "n=dodek@156.17.1.251")
(3467437078 :join "morphling" nil "n=stefan@gssn-590d2b20.pool.mediaWays.net")
(3467437086 :quit "ljames" nil "n=ln@unaffiliated/ljames")
(3467437109 :part "khumba" nil "n=khumba@S0106001e2ac2d18e.ok.shawcable.net")
(3467437274 :privmsg "tcr" "It's pretty easy to convince if you do not immediately go havoc at them." nil)
(3467437287 :join "badipod" nil "n=badipod@110.32.140.61")
(3467437309 :privmsg "holycow" "guaqua: i feel the sam way.  that is an excellent point." nil)
(3467437309 :join "Original" nil "i=187db297@gateway/web/freenode/x-zayhraybbrsgyimt")
(3467437310 :privmsg "sykopomp" "tcr: really, it wasn't that immediate. It's pretty easy to be treated with respect if you don't come into a channel picking a fight :)" nil)
(3467437314 :quit "crink" "\"Leaving.\"" "n=crink@unaffiliated/crink")
(3467437362 :privmsg "Original" "don't justify your trolling and personal attacks on me, for something I did, I asked simple questions" nil)
(3467437372 :privmsg "Zhivago" "original: Please stop whining." nil)
(3467437373 :privmsg "Original" "none the less those who helped me outside the channel, thankyou" nil)
(3467437383 :privmsg "Original" "it's refreshing to know not all are bad seeds" nil)
(3467437387 :privmsg "holycow" "i really do love exploring this complexity and trying to understand it.  in that context it is always simultaneously interesting and frustrating to run into those that only know monoculture and a singular perspective on a complex system (usually an emphasis on economics alone as the key motivator)" nil)
(3467437387 :privmsg "sykopomp" "oh god the thing is back." nil)
(3467437398 :privmsg "tcr" "It's a human fallacy to associate popularity with quality. In general, that psychological shortcut works." nil)
(3467437413 :privmsg "tcr" "(except when it isn't, of course)" nil)
(3467437475 :privmsg "Original" "I wasn't asserting popularity equaled of higher quality, I was making a point that higher demand has merit and reasoning, which *can be based off quality, we're not talking about the general population" nil)
(3467437476 :join "nikodemus" nil "n=nikodemu@cs181150041.pp.htv.fi")
(3467437486 :privmsg "Xof" "morning" nil)
(3467437500 :privmsg "Original" "but programmers who whether you want to accept it or not, could be more intelligent than you..." nil)
(3467437516 :privmsg "holycow" "aaaand the trolling continues" nil)
(3467437526 :privmsg "Original" "aren't on this train, I was asking why" nil)
(3467437526 :privmsg "splittist" "morning Xof. sbcl-10 a fabulous success?" nil)
(3467437530 :privmsg "Zhivago" "original: Again, please stop whining." nil)
(3467437540 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Original: perhaps, if you're serious, you could adjust your approach to be a little more respectful." nil)
(3467437541 :privmsg "Xof" "well, I don't know yet.  The registration list is looking good" nil)
(3467437542 :privmsg "tcr" "Original: There was a time where Lisp was very popular. But the industry that used Lisp couldn't hold its (from our perspective, ridiculous) promises." nil)
(3467437549 :privmsg "Xof" "it would look better if the ditherers actually confirmed :-)" nil)
(3467437558 :privmsg "splittist" "heh" nil)
(3467437564 :privmsg "Original" "what promises would that be tcr?" nil)
(3467437565 :privmsg "Xof" "then of course I actually have to make it happen" nil)
(3467437574 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Original: the AI winter happened. Well, both of them did." nil)
(3467437576 :privmsg "tcr" "Original: Strong AI, machine capable of human thinking" nil)
(3467437578 :privmsg "antifuchs" "Xof: small matter of organizing!" nil)
(3467437582 :privmsg "sykopomp" "and Lisp got blamed." nil)
(3467437615 :privmsg "antifuchs" "it's not so much the blaming, rather the funding cuts (:" nil)
(3467437618 :privmsg "sykopomp" "afaict, if you were doing AI 20 years ago, it's pretty much a given that you know lisp." nil)
(3467437626 :privmsg "Original" "tcr: thats generally the association I hear inregards to lisp, is AI, so is the lack of it due to the language or the programmers" nil)
(3467437637 :privmsg "sykopomp" "antifuchs: well, my impression is that it got to be a bad word in academia." nil)
(3467437637 :privmsg "tcr" "Original: After the death of that industry, Lisp has had a very bad smell." nil)
(3467437640 :privmsg "nikodemus" "good morning" nil)
(3467437642 :privmsg "nikodemus" "Xof: i'll be there" nil)
(3467437651 :action "Xof" "adjusts the list" nil)
(3467437664 :privmsg "tcr" "Original: The point is that they could have never come as far as they came (to even make such promises) without Lisp" nil)
(3467437690 :privmsg "nunb" "anyone have tips on how to disable ,sayoonara for my production box but (perhaps) keep it enabled for the rest?" nil)
(3467437706 :privmsg "holycow" "there is also another pespective tangential to the digital winter" nil)
(3467437712 :privmsg "sykopomp" "nunb: it's pretty easy: don't type it?" nil)
(3467437718 :privmsg "holycow" "when you have two competing populations in a petry dish" nil)
(3467437725 :privmsg "holycow" "they usually develop a balance" nil)
(3467437727 :privmsg "tcr" "nunb: Put something which overrides that function in your production box's .emacs" nil)
(3467437740 :privmsg "tcr" "nunb: Look into def-slime-repl-shortcut in contrib/slime-repl.el" nil)
(3467437743 :privmsg "holycow" "then an event happens to sway the economics in the favour of one  population" nil)
(3467437744 :privmsg "Original" "so in 20 years they havent managed to pull off ai with lisp?" nil)
(3467437747 :privmsg "holycow" "this is effectively what happened" nil)
(3467437752 :privmsg "holycow" "imho anyway." nil)
(3467437757 :privmsg "Zhivago" "original: What is AI?" nil)
(3467437764 :privmsg "Original" "artificial intelligence" nil)
(3467437774 :privmsg "holycow" "one popuplation ended up with the vast capitalization in a 'way of thinking' and their children are what we are left with" nil)
(3467437776 :privmsg "Zhivago" "Original: And what does that mean?" nil)
(3467437776 :privmsg "tcr" "Original: \"They\" went on" nil)
(3467437794 :privmsg "Original" "Artificial intelligence (AI) is the intelligence of machines and the branch of computer science which aims to create it." nil)
(3467437796 :privmsg "holycow" "which is of course, independent of technical merit" nil)
(3467437814 :privmsg "lnostdal" "did you not understand that the goal of real (strong) AI turned out to be impossible to begin with? .. this was already mentioned, Original .." nil)
(3467437826 :quit "badipod" "Client Quit" "n=badipod@110.32.140.61")
(3467437826 :privmsg "Zhivago" "original: And what determines if something is \"intelligence\" or not?" nil)
(3467437827 :privmsg "tcr" "Original: There's that saying that as quick as something starts working, it ceases to be AI but becomes its own field" nil)
(3467437829 :privmsg "Original" "how is that impossible?" nil)
(3467437837 :privmsg "nunb" "tcr: thanks, will do." nil)
(3467437844 :join "badipod" nil "n=badipod@110.32.140.61")
(3467437853 :quit "Adlai" "Remote closed the connection" "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467437863 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Original: it's a very ambitious thing to try to do. They got pretty damn far with Lisp, but they were too optimistic." nil)
(3467437864 :privmsg "Xof" "quantum gravity" nil)
(3467437869 :privmsg "Original" "first off the managed to translate signals the brain sends into binary code, e.g translate thoughts to words, and they're working on emotions, the brain is just a complicated computers" nil)
(3467437869 :privmsg "sykopomp" "that's really what it came down to afaict." nil)
(3467437872 :privmsg "nunb" "sykopomp: indavertent, \"fingers know better\" situation :-(" nil)
(3467437872 :privmsg "Original" "ai is absolutely possible" nil)
(3467437892 :privmsg "Zhivago" "original: So, how can you test for AI?" nil)
(3467437895 :privmsg "stassats" "Original: have any?" nil)
(3467437904 :join "Adlai" nil "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467437908 :join "kejsaren" nil "n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net")
(3467437916 :privmsg "Original" "what kind of question is that?" nil)
(3467437918 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Original: perhaps you can code us a sample strong AI implementation in asm? We'll try to study it. I'm sure it's not too hard." nil)
(3467437923 :privmsg "nunb" "Zhivago: write a bot that enters #lisp and trolls, weed out the generations that learn not to get kicked?" nil)
(3467437926 :privmsg "tcr" "Original: Perhaps. The choice of programming language probably won't matter" nil)
(3467437928 :privmsg "Original" "yes they have tests for ai, depending on what's being claimed" nil)
(3467437930 :privmsg "nunb" "mwahahaha profit!" nil)
(3467437941 :privmsg "Original" "I could do A.I in asm, sure" nil)
(3467437944 :privmsg "Original" "wouldn't be hard either" nil)
(3467437951 :privmsg "holycow" "hehehe" nil)
(3467437951 :privmsg "Original" "\"strong\" A.i" nil)
(3467437956 :privmsg "Zhivago" "original: So, what is AI?" nil)
(3467437957 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Original: could you go code that for me, please?" nil)
(3467437958 :privmsg "holycow" "aaaaaaand we are dealing with a 16 year old" nil)
(3467437959 :privmsg "holycow" "hehe" nil)
(3467437969 :privmsg "jdz" "Original: the claim is \"something posesses AI\"." nil)
(3467437971 :privmsg "sykopomp" "Original: please include unit tests." nil)
(3467437986 :privmsg "tcr" "Original: Anyway, that one of the explanations why Lisp isn't used widely anymore because of its stigmata." nil)
(3467437992 :privmsg "Original" "everything in life is conditional statements, if then elseif, else" nil)
(3467437997 :join "aerique" nil "i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl")
(3467438001 :action "nunb" "feels special with stigmata" nil)
(3467438008 :privmsg "Original" "how those conditions are addressed is based off various other things" nil)
(3467438012 :privmsg "Original" "all which can be implemented" nil)
(3467438024 :privmsg "stassats" "that's naive" nil)
(3467438025 :privmsg "tcr" "Original: In the last decade, there has been some uprise in its adoption though, because of the uprise of dynamic languages" nil)
(3467438034 :join "trebor_dki" nil "n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de")
(3467438037 :privmsg "Original" "how is that naive" nil)
(3467438060 :privmsg "tcr" "Anyway I don't have the feeling you really want to listen, and cut out." nil)
(3467438080 :privmsg "sykopomp" "it's okay, he just doesn't understand anything :)" nil)
(3467438094 :privmsg "nunb" "'(I could do A.I in asm, sure) - this is OT, naive, probably juvenile, and #lisp's SNR has always been high. I vote ban." nil)
(3467438108 :privmsg "stassats" "banlist is full" nil)
(3467438113 :privmsg "Original" "I could" nil)
(3467438124 :privmsg "jdz" "Original: if you could you'd do" nil)
(3467438130 :privmsg "stassats" "well, less talk MORE CODE" nil)
(3467438151 :privmsg "Adlai" "Original, you -could- implement AI programs in asm, but the semantics and program size would end up much easier to understand and smaller if you were to write in a language like CL" nil)
(3467438155 :privmsg "Original" "jdz I have no reason too, but you assuming I couldn't is amusing, you seem to think A.I is somehow impossible or even difficult" nil)
(3467438161 :privmsg "Original" "it's indepth sure, but not difficult" nil)
(3467438175 :privmsg "lnostdal" "Original, let's see you tackle something simple first .. let's see if you are capable of learning something trivial like Lisp" nil)
(3467438178 :privmsg "jdz" "Original: of course it is impossible. you cannot implement something you cannot define." nil)
(3467438201 :privmsg "Original" "i've tackled very complicated things, by breaking them into smaller parts, its really not hard" nil)
(3467438219 :privmsg "Xof" "what, like learning to punctuate?" nil)
(3467438221 :privmsg "Original" "heh I can define A.I." nil)
(3467438232 :privmsg "jdz" "Original: no you can't." nil)
(3467438235 :privmsg "Zhivago" "original: Then do so." nil)
(3467438244 :privmsg "jdz" "Original: at least you failed so far." nil)
(3467438249 :action "Adlai" "(push 'corn)" nil)
(3467438250 :privmsg "Xof" "I can define an immovable object and an irresistable force.  Doesn't mean I can implement both at once" nil)
(3467438252 :privmsg "Adlai" "all are free to POP" nil)
(3467438253 :privmsg "Original" "A.I in the most extreme level is the ability for computers to not only learn, but understand and comprehend" nil)
(3467438256 :quit "loxs" "Connection timed out" "n=loxs@85-130-35-10.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net")
(3467438262 :quit "badipod" "Client Quit" "n=badipod@110.32.140.61")
(3467438272 :action "Xof" "wonders if the channel ban list is in fact full" nil)
(3467438274 :privmsg "holycow" "oh yes" nil)
(3467438275 :quit "rread" "Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net")
(3467438275 :privmsg "Phoodus" "That's a description, not a definition" nil)
(3467438276 :privmsg "holycow" "obviously simple" nil)
(3467438289 :privmsg "nunb" "stassats: really? I don't know whether to laugh or cry." nil)
(3467438297 :privmsg "jdz" "Original: how do you tell if computer understands something?" nil)
(3467438298 :join "badipod" nil "n=badipod@110.32.140.61")
(3467438310 :privmsg "jdz" "Original: does computer understand \"chess\"?" nil)
(3467438339 :privmsg "Original" "not currently no, they go off calculations, percentages,even pseduo randomness" nil)
(3467438361 :privmsg "stassats" "does brain understand chess?" nil)
(3467438364 :privmsg "jdz" "Original: have you ever heard of Turing Test?" nil)
(3467438379 :join "rread" nil "n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net")
(3467438401 :privmsg "nikodemus" "does anyone else except Original want to wrangle about definition of AI?" nil)
(3467438408 :quit "manuel_" nil "n=manuel@pD9E6FDF9.dip.t-dialin.net")
(3467438415 :privmsg "Zhivago" "original: Well, computers can learn without much difficulty." nil)
(3467438434 :privmsg "Zhivago" "original: So, what does it mean to \"understand and comprehend\"?" nil)
(3467438441 :privmsg "nikodemus" "(Zhivago doesn't count, obviously...) :P" nil)
(3467438445 :privmsg "Original" "that is the definition, a computer that can think, comprehend, and understand, but the problem with that is to truely understand some things requires context" nil)
(3467438460 :privmsg "Original" "context requires reasoning/emotion" nil)
(3467438467 :privmsg "Original" "that's what's hard to implement" nil)
(3467438471 :privmsg "Zhivago" "original: So, you can't define it?" nil)
(3467438475 :privmsg "jdz" "Original: i'm sure it is possible to implement context as a bunch of if-then rules" nil)
(3467438482 :privmsg "Original" "that is the definition, you can't read?" nil)
(3467438487 :privmsg "Zhivago" "nikodemus: It is a matter of housetraining, if you don't want to just ban it." nil)
(3467438490 :privmsg "Original" "you don't speak the english?" nil)
(3467438497 :quit "konr" "Connection timed out" "n=konrad@201.82.134.163")
(3467438505 :part "nunb" nil "n=nundan@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it")
(3467438516 :privmsg "Zhivago" "original: Ah, you're not a native speaker of English, then." nil)
(3467438518 :privmsg "Original" "zhivago I told you before, i'll tell you again,you're are absolutely on the wrong network" nil)
(3467438520 :privmsg "jdz" "Original: so AI is something that possesses emotion?" nil)
(3467438523 :privmsg "Original" "trolls like you live at efnet" nil)
(3467438527 :privmsg "Zhivago" "original: Once again, stop whining." nil)
(3467438535 :privmsg "Original" "jdz yes true ai will need emotion" nil)
(3467438536 :privmsg "lnostdal" "so he knows efnet .. figures" nil)
(3467438539 :privmsg "stassats" "ad hominem is always helpful" nil)
(3467438540 :privmsg "lnostdal" "just ban him, nicktastic" nil)
(3467438544 :privmsg "lnostdal" "nikodemus*" nil)
(3467438546 :privmsg "jdz" "Original: so what is emotion?" nil)
(3467438558 :privmsg "Original" "emotion is based off experiences, environment, and various other factors" nil)
(3467438568 :privmsg "_deepfire" "he didn't ask what it's based off" nil)
(3467438569 :mode "ChanServ" "+o Xof" "ChanServ@services.")
(3467438580 :privmsg "Original" "xof I heard about you" nil)
(3467438590 :privmsg "Zhivago" "A slow learner." nil)
(3467438590 :privmsg "Xof" "wow, I am famous!!" nil)
(3467438593 :mode "Xof" "+b *!i=187db297@*gateway/web/freenode/x-zayhraybbrsgyimt" "n=crhodes@dunstaple.doc.gold.ac.uk")
(3467438602 :mode "Zhivago" "-o Zhivago" "n=zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com")
(3467438623 :privmsg "jdz" "Original: apparently you fail at simple \"plain\" intelligence, not to mention artificial..." nil)
(3467438627 :part "Original" nil "i=187db297@gateway/web/freenode/x-zayhraybbrsgyimt")
(3467438644 :join "Adlai`" nil "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467438646 :privmsg "jdz" "and i still don't know what intelligence is..." nil)
(3467438648 :privmsg "tcr" "When working on typexpand, I wondered why the deftype-expanders do only take the &whole but not an &environment" nil)
(3467438656 :privmsg "nikodemus" "how do those web gateway addresses work?" nil)
(3467438664 :privmsg "Phoodus" "and why don't bans work on them?" nil)
(3467438669 :join "george" nil "n=george@189.107.150.164")
(3467438775 :privmsg "tcr" "Seems like &environment in deftype always gets bound to NIL" nil)
(3467438796 :privmsg "nikodemus" "tcr: yeah, our types don't know about environments" nil)
(3467438799 :privmsg "tcr" "I should probably fix that, too, if I'm on the spot" nil)
(3467438805 :join "loxs" nil "n=loxs@85-130-35-10.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net")
(3467438819 :quit "kejsaren2" "Connection timed out" "n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net")
(3467438851 :privmsg "tcr" "I remember a launchpad entry for that" nil)
(3467438864 :mode "Xof" "-b *!i=187db297@*gateway/web/freenode/x-zayhraybbrsgyimt" "n=crhodes@dunstaple.doc.gold.ac.uk")
(3467438949 :quit "Adlai" "Nick collision from services." "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467438954 :nick "Adlai`" "Adlai" "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467438955 :privmsg "tcr" "What is the reason for flaky threads on mac os?" nil)
(3467438957 :join "legumbre_" nil "n=leo@r190-135-47-215.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy")
(3467438960 :quit "george__" "Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=george@189.107.129.109")
(3467438983 :privmsg "nikodemus" "os x" nil)
(3467439012 :privmsg "Xof" "tcr: the problem is that we don't have a place in the environment for local type definitions" nil)
(3467439018 :privmsg "tcr" "has this been reported to them?" nil)
(3467439042 :privmsg "tcr" "(I.e. is there some place were a friend of mine could say \"I'd like to see this fixed, too\")" nil)
(3467439057 :privmsg "nikodemus" "it is our fault too -- and yes, slyrus has cooked up C-based test-cases for some of the issues" nil)
(3467439074 :privmsg "nikodemus" "our fault: stuff which is de-facto signal safe on most unixes isn't on darwin" nil)
(3467439079 :privmsg "tcr" "Xof: Local type definitions?" nil)
(3467439094 :join "envi_office2" nil "i=envi@203.109.25.110")
(3467439095 :join "FufieToo" nil "n=poff@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com")
(3467439121 :privmsg "serichsen" "How would Lisp look like without garbage collection?" nil)
(3467439136 :privmsg "stassats" "newlisp" nil)
(3467439156 :privmsg "Adlai" "serichsen, you could have sys:free" nil)
(3467439161 :join "knobo`" nil "n=user@90.149.4.182")
(3467439166 :privmsg "nikodemus" "our and their fault: the normal unix stuff isn't (or at least wasn't) robust enough, so we need to use the mach stuff for threads, and none of use really knows mach -- and those interfaces aren't properly documented" nil)
(3467439174 :join "ASau`" nil "n=user@77.246.230.247")
(3467439175 :join "Wombatzu`" nil "n=user@216-31-242-4.static-ip.telepacific.net")
(3467439177 :privmsg "tcr" "This is the bug entry: https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/309140" nil)
(3467439180 :join "fihi09`" nil "n=user@pool-71-190-74-115.nycmny.east.verizon.net")
(3467439193 :quit "antoszka" "clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net" "n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka")
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(3467439193 :quit "grouzen" "clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net" "n=grouzen@91.214.124.2")
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(3467439193 :quit "envi^office" "clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net" "i=envi@203.109.25.110")
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(3467439193 :quit "peddie" "clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net" "n=peddie@TEP.MIT.EDU")
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(3467439193 :quit "_deepfire" "clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net" "n=deepfire@80.92.100.69")
(3467439193 :quit "Xof" "clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net" "n=crhodes@dunstaple.doc.gold.ac.uk")
(3467439193 :quit "Pepe_" "clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net" "n=ppjet@ram94-7-82-232-191-53.fbx.proxad.net")
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(3467439280 :privmsg "serichsen" "I've been discussing with someone who claims that the developer always knows when a piece in memory can be freed, so it should be his responsibility, and that garbage collection just adds needless overhead and timing uncertainty." nil)
(3467439308 :join "nunb" nil "n=nundan@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it")
(3467439311 :join "Xof" nil "n=crhodes@dunstaple.doc.gold.ac.uk")
(3467439325 :privmsg "tcr" "Xof: What did you mean with local type definitions" nil)
(3467439325 :privmsg "nikodemus" "i know how to fix at least a subset of the threads/darwin issues: (1) implement userspace mutexes for darwin, so they don't have to use flaky-for-us syscalls (2) replace mutexes in the gc with realtime semaphores" nil)
(3467439334 :join "Ralith" nil "n=ralith@69.90.49.189")
(3467439348 :privmsg "nikodemus" "at least i believe those two would fix some of the issues" nil)
(3467439351 :privmsg "tcr" "Xof: I made up a test case for the &env stuff at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/309140" nil)
(3467439361 :join "Pepe_" nil "n=ppjet@ram94-7-82-232-191-53.fbx.proxad.net")
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(3467439386 :privmsg "Xof" "tcr: we don't separate out the file compilation environment from the rest of the environments" nil)
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(3467439409 :privmsg "Xof" "I'm fairly sure your test case is nonconforming by clhs 3.2.2.3" nil)
(3467439411 :join "Adlai`" nil "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467439419 :privmsg "tcr" "clhs 3.2.2.3" nil)
(3467439419 :privmsg "specbot" "http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_bbc.htm" nil)
(3467439420 :join "grouzen" nil "n=grouzen@91.214.124.2")
(3467439428 :privmsg "stassats" "serichsen: people can do many tasks that computer can do" nil)
(3467439442 :privmsg "Xof" "\"subtype/supertype relationships of type specifiers must not change between compile time and run time\"" nil)
(3467439470 :privmsg "tcr" "well that's true" nil)
(3467439476 :privmsg "stassats" "serichsen: and how well can be seen with all those memory leaks" nil)
(3467439511 :privmsg "nikodemus" "the third issue i know about is that you cannot spawn new lisp-threads in child processes if you have ever spawned one in the parent -- even if it has been joined before forking" nil)
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(3467439664 :privmsg "tcr" "Xof: What about the bit with separating out the file comp env?" nil)
(3467439670 :privmsg "tcr" "Do we need to?" nil)
(3467439677 :join "hdurer__" nil "n=hdurer@nat/yahoo/x-igtiklfrjndwutcm")
(3467439677 :privmsg "Xof" "I don't know" nil)
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(3467439693 :privmsg "Xof" "it would give you a conforming way of testing for the &env parameter behaviour :-)" nil)
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(3467439707 :join "mrSpec" nil "n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec")
(3467439707 :join "wlr" nil "n=walt@c-65-96-92-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net")
(3467439715 :privmsg "tcr" "You can easily do that by define-symbol-macro + macroexpand on the env in the deftype body" nil)
(3467439716 :quit "rread" "Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net")
(3467439718 :quit "badipod" "Client Quit" "n=badipod@110.32.140.61")
(3467439725 :privmsg "tcr" "I mean testing for it" nil)
(3467439733 :join "Jasko" nil "n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net")
(3467439736 :join "xristos" nil "n=nx@research.suspicious.org")
(3467439741 :join "stoop" nil "n=stoop@unaffiliated/stoop")
(3467439747 :privmsg "nikodemus" "if we did, file-compiling (deftype foo () 'fixnum) would not define FOO in the execution environment -- only load of the .fasl did" nil)
(3467439755 :join "gonzojive" nil "n=red@condi.Stanford.EDU")
(3467439759 :join "ignas" nil "n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt")
(3467439765 :nick "xristos" "Guest10190" "n=nx@research.suspicious.org")
(3467439767 :join "rread" nil "n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net")
(3467439774 :privmsg "Xof" "tcr: yeah, true" nil)
(3467439785 :privmsg "Xof" "it's harder to construct a \"real\" test case, though :)" nil)
(3467439801 :privmsg "nikodemus" "which would be nice, but also probably break some of code..." nil)
(3467439802 :quit "Adlai" "Nick collision from services." "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467439855 :privmsg "tcr" "Xof: Well, the issue gets a real-world flavor with an exported typexpand functionality" nil)
(3467439867 :privmsg "Xof" "oo, should think about release plans." nil)
(3467439878 :privmsg "tcr" "to make me rush??" nil)
(3467439884 :quit "legumbre" "Connection timed out" "n=leo@r190-135-42-24.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy")
(3467439887 :privmsg "Xof" "no, so that we don't embarrassingly fail to release" nil)
(3467439908 :privmsg "Xof" "I can do a release on the 27th, I think" nil)
(3467439931 :privmsg "Xof" "I have a release script that I want to test" nil)
(3467439942 :privmsg "nikodemus" "oh, that reminds me" nil)
(3467439960 :privmsg "nikodemus" "i have a new-install.sh that needs testing as well" nil)
(3467439971 :quit "Adlai`" "Remote closed the connection" "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467439979 :privmsg "tcr" "Would you be interested in being able to access launchpad from cl?" nil)
(3467439983 :part "cmsimon" nil "n=cms@unaffiliated/cmsimon")
(3467439997 :privmsg "serichsen" "stassats: that's what I said, but the question is first, whether a garbage collector can be as good as good manual memory management, and second, how much more tedious good manual memory management would be." nil)
(3467440000 :join "Adlai`" nil "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467440027 :privmsg "nikodemus" "one that installs as sbcl-<postfix-defaulting-to-version-string>, with a symlink as sbcl -- similarly for the stuff under lib" nil)
(3467440038 :quit "sohum" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=sohum@unaffiliated/sohum")
(3467440046 :privmsg "stassats" "serichsen: there can be parallel garbage collecting" nil)
(3467440072 :privmsg "nikodemus" "tcr: doesn't really matter to me. at least i can't think of an immediate use -- but maybe i just fail to see the obvious" nil)
(3467440088 :nick "Adlai`" "Adlai" "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467440107 :privmsg "stassats" "serichsen: and as for delays, there are real time garbage collectors" nil)
(3467440123 :privmsg "nikodemus" "serichsen: gc can be better than manual memory management -- it all depends on what you measure" nil)
(3467440126 :privmsg "_3b" "serichsen: seems like for any serious app, you will end up writing your own computer mediated memory management anwyay, so might as well do it right" nil)
(3467440138 :privmsg "Xof" "tcr: less interested than in accessing launchpad from emacs" nil)
(3467440140 :privmsg "dto" "how do i portably get the current directory that an executable is run from?" nil)
(3467440147 :privmsg "tcr" "nikodemus: I'd really like to see if the value of SBCL_HOME would be determined from the location a symlink to the sbcl binary links to" nil)
(3467440157 :privmsg "Xof" "(except that I can actually do that now by e-mail)" nil)
(3467440165 :privmsg "serichsen" "_3b: a kind of greenspunning :)" nil)
(3467440179 :privmsg "tcr" "nikodemus: I provided a patch for that, but I wouldn't like to commit it myself." nil)
(3467440189 :privmsg "_3b" "serichsen: right, look at all the ref counting smart pointer things in c++" nil)
(3467440193 :privmsg "tcr" "Xof: Yeah that's probably true" nil)
(3467440265 :privmsg "nikodemus" "tcr: you mean /usr/bin/local/sbcl -> /usr/local/lib/sbcl-1.0.42/sbcl hence the core is /usr/local/lib/sbcl-1.0.42/sbcl.core ?" nil)
(3467440274 :privmsg "tcr" "nikodemus: yes" nil)
(3467440285 :nick "Axioplase" "Axioplase_" "n=Axioplas@130.34.188.206")
(3467440322 :privmsg "serichsen" "_3b, stassats: thanks for the ammunition! :)" nil)
(3467440353 :privmsg "tcr" "dto: You cannot, methinks. The best you can do is probe `readlink $0', and then create symlinks from /usr/bin to your installation site" nil)
(3467440373 :join "G0SUB" nil "n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub")
(3467440379 :privmsg "stassats" "dto: (truename *default-pathname-defaults*) might work" nil)
(3467440384 :privmsg "dto" "(load-time-value (or #.*compile-file-truename* *load-truename*)" nil)
(3467440390 :privmsg "dto" "someone mentioned this on another channel" nil)
(3467440401 :privmsg "nikodemus" "dto: (truename \".\")" nil)
(3467440406 :privmsg "tcr" "Ok I misunderstood you then" nil)
(3467440423 :privmsg "Adlai" "nikodemus, stassats, those don't work portably" nil)
(3467440439 :privmsg "nikodemus" "they're pathnames, they're never portable..." nil)
(3467440439 :quit "rread" "Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net")
(3467440441 :privmsg "Adlai" "sometimes they just stay as the directory in which the lisp was started" nil)
(3467440462 :privmsg "stassats" "and what was the question?" nil)
(3467440492 :join "rread" nil "n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net")
(3467440500 :privmsg "nikodemus" "how to get getcwd() portably, i believe" nil)
(3467440524 :privmsg "nikodemus" "cffi + getcwd() or a thin portability layer" nil)
(3467440612 :privmsg "dto" "the problem i have is shipping a binary that includes files the binary wants to look up" nil)
(3467440614 :privmsg "stassats" "(truename *default-pathname-defaults*) is portable in the sense that it works on all implementations i've tested" nil)
(3467440623 :quit "Adlai" "Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467440674 :privmsg "nikodemus" "unless *default-pathname-defaults* is set in .lisprc, or set to something interesting by the program..." nil)
(3467440714 :join "Adlai" nil "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467440720 :privmsg "nikodemus" "dto: do you specify that you need to run the program from the install directory, or similar?" nil)
(3467440740 :privmsg "dto" "you don't have to run it from the install directory, but that's what i'm expecting people to do" nil)
(3467440742 :privmsg "dto" "it's a game" nil)
(3467440753 :join "badipod" nil "n=badipod@110.32.140.61")
(3467440754 :privmsg "nikodemus" "(or have a shell-script that cds into the directory, etc)" nil)
(3467440758 :privmsg "dto" "and in order to ship it the same way on windows, mac, and linux," nil)
(3467440759 :join "kejsaren" nil "n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net")
(3467440767 :privmsg "dto" "i need to get the directory where everything opens." nil)
(3467440781 :privmsg "dto" "s/opens/was untarred" nil)
(3467440793 :quit "benny" "No route to host" "n=benny@i577A1167.versanet.de")
(3467440816 :privmsg "serichsen" "I would guess that you need to configure the installation place as part of the installation process" nil)
(3467440841 :privmsg "tcr" "Adlai: Did you read that predicate dispatch report?" nil)
(3467440857 :privmsg "stassats" "for example, (car ccl:*command-line-argument-list*) => \"/home/stas/lisp/impl/ccl/lx86cl64\"" nil)
(3467440859 :privmsg "dto" "right now it looks for ~/.rlxrc and expects you to configure the pathname there. *default-pathname-defaults* is in there, but doesn't work" nil)
(3467440878 :privmsg "dto" "for example when the executable is clicked on from nautilus" nil)
(3467440888 :privmsg "stassats" "(car sb-ext:*posix-argv*) => \"/home/stas/lisp/impl/sbcl/src/runtime/sbcl\"" nil)
(3467440895 :quit "sp0_of" "Read error: 113 (No route to host)" "n=spoof@78.31.74.25")
(3467440904 :privmsg "nikodemus" "dto: given that it's pathnames, i would not promise any non-tested solution to be portable. if you want it to be robust, you really have to test across the implementations" nil)
(3467440917 :part "badipod" nil "n=badipod@110.32.140.61")
(3467440929 :privmsg "dto" "i could just use sb-ext for now. it's really a minor problem." nil)
(3467440954 :privmsg "Adlai" "tcr, the really long one? I read parts of it. Thank you for pointing it out." nil)
(3467440965 :join "kmc" nil "n=keegan@206-71-236-70.c3-0.nyw-ubr5.nyr-nyw.ny.cable.rcn.com")
(3467440997 :privmsg "nikodemus" "i've used (make-pathname :name nil :type nil :defaults (truename (asdf:system-definition-pathname (asdf:find-system :my-system)))) but that doesn't really work for executable delivery..." nil)
(3467441002 :privmsg "tcr" "Adlai: Is it based on MOP?" nil)
(3467441003 :quit "rread" "Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net")
(3467441044 :privmsg "nikodemus" "oh, oh. i've misunderstood the whole thing *blush*" nil)
(3467441064 :join "Adlai`" nil "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467441073 :join "levente_meszaros" nil "n=levente_@apn-94-44-8-243.vodafone.hu")
(3467441084 :quit "QinGW" "Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=wangqing@203.86.89.226")
(3467441102 :join "rread" nil "n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net")
(3467441165 :privmsg "tcr" "I wondered this morning if it made sense to take that predicate dispatch stuff, write a good test suite for it, and include it as a contrib for sbcl, so Xof has a hopefully non-trivial application test for his future MOP changes" nil)
(3467441215 :quit "lukjad007" "Remote closed the connection" "n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007")
(3467441225 :privmsg "nikodemus" "if you're willing to maintain it :)" nil)
(3467441258 :join "lukjad007" nil "n=lukjadOO@unaffiliated/lukjad007")
(3467441258 :privmsg "Adlai`" "What about ContextL and AspectL ?" nil)
(3467441306 :quit "Adlai" "Nick collision from services." "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467441307 :nick "Adlai`" "Adlai" "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467441336 :quit "ignas" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt")
(3467441451 :join "demmeln" nil "n=Adium@188.104.85.104")
(3467441537 :privmsg "tcr" "nikodemus: How bad does (interrupt-thread *thread-to-be-suspended* #'(lambda () (signal 'suspend))) sound? So threads can add customized suspension behaviour via handlers." nil)
(3467441712 :quit "EinarDog1in" "Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)" "n=plyryan@pool-71-113-49-75.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net")
(3467441730 :privmsg "tcr" "How does interrupt-thread relate to uwp protection forms in the interrupted thread?" nil)
(3467441738 :privmsg "stassats" "tcr: i've commited an order of magnitude faster and less consing asdf-determine-system" nil)
(3467441747 :quit "envi_office2" "\"Leaving\"" "i=envi@203.109.25.110")
(3467441762 :privmsg "tcr" "stassats: cool I'll check it out" nil)
(3467441882 :privmsg "nikodemus" "tcr: it sounds bad" nil)
(3467441883 :quit "rread" "Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net")
(3467441941 :privmsg "tcr" "How would you implement interprocess messaging with real-time concerns?" nil)
(3467441944 :privmsg "nikodemus" "only thing suspend handler can really safely do is set a flag and continue normal execution -- which tests the flag at regular intervals" nil)
(3467441947 :join "rread" nil "n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net")
(3467441985 :privmsg "nikodemus" "write the code so that it checks for \"urgent messages\" at predictable intervals" nil)
(3467442001 :privmsg "nikodemus" "is mailboxes or queues or similar for communication" nil)
(3467442025 :privmsg "nikodemus" "never use interrupt-thread or with-timeout" nil)
(3467442097 :privmsg "nikodemus" "if i was in a hurry, i'd use with-deadline. if i had time, i'd add missing :timeout arguments to with-mutex &co, and add per-stream deadlines (see hans' design in ccl)" nil)
(3467442130 :privmsg "nikodemus" "s/is mailboxes/use mailboxes/" nil)
(3467442135 :quit "Adlai" "Remote closed the connection" "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467442172 :join "Adlai" nil "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467442176 :privmsg "nikodemus" "which reminds me, i still have sb-mailbox to clean up and commit" nil)
(3467442226 :privmsg "tcr" "I may in fact do that. Could you write up an extensive proposal for me? Something which outlines the steps, and explaining use cases/benefits?" nil)
(3467442236 :join "antoszka" nil "n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka")
(3467442255 :privmsg "nikodemus" "i could, but i'm not sure i have the time" nil)
(3467442266 :privmsg "tcr" "I may do that in paid time, I think an extensive proposal would help" nil)
(3467442308 :privmsg "stassats" "funny, fuzzy-completion does not complete NIL" nil)
(3467442322 :privmsg "tcr" "I'd be also interested in a discussion why the interrupt-thread is so bad. I know you're always talking about it, but I think it's not extensively explained in the manual." nil)
(3467442351 :privmsg "tcr" "I'd be especially interested in explanatory comments on what everything could go wrong" nil)
(3467442362 :quit "SandGorgon" "Remote closed the connection" "n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129")
(3467442388 :privmsg "antoszka" "I'm planning to build a touchscreen UI for a somewhat embedded home media player. This will run on X. What toolkit would you suggest I dig into for creating a simple, large-buttoned interface? (no window manager)" nil)
(3467442392 :privmsg "nikodemus" "tcr: http://random-state.net/log/3386927147.html" nil)
(3467442406 :join "SandGorgon" nil "n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129")
(3467442450 :privmsg "tcr" "Right I remember that, I'll read it again" nil)
(3467442453 :quit "loxs" "Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)" "n=loxs@85-130-35-10.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net")
(3467442504 :privmsg "stassats" "antoszka: mcclim?" nil)
(3467442518 :privmsg "tcr" "nikodemus: Are there more areas that should heed deadlines?" nil)
(3467442540 :privmsg "antoszka" "stassats: Will look, thx." nil)
(3467442553 :privmsg "stassats" "though, mcclim isn't very button-friendly" nil)
(3467442572 :join "Xach" nil "n=xach@unnamed.xach.com")
(3467442573 :privmsg "antoszka" "Is there one that is?" nil)
(3467442584 :privmsg "stassats" "i.e. it's not very its power is unleashed" nil)
(3467442589 :privmsg "tcr" "nikodemus: I does not seem there's an exported check-for-deadline that I can use at application level" nil)
(3467442594 :privmsg "stassats" "s/very/where/" nil)
(3467442601 :privmsg "antoszka" "I suppose possibility of bitmapped buttons would be a plus." nil)
(3467442617 :privmsg "stassats" "antoszka: there's commonqt for Qt" nil)
(3467442622 :quit "Reaver1" "Connection timed out" "n=Data_Ent@212.88.117.162")
(3467442643 :nick "ASau`" "ASau" "n=user@77.246.230.247")
(3467442643 :privmsg "nikodemus" "tcr: decode-timeout sleazily does that for you" nil)
(3467442651 :quit "demmeln" "\"Leaving.\"" "n=Adium@188.104.85.104")
(3467442668 :join "kiuma" nil "n=kiuma@93-62-254-109.ip25.fastwebnet.it")
(3467442712 :privmsg "nikodemus" "tcr: basically, all potentially blocking operations should come with a :timeout argument, except for stream operations where streams should have associated deadlines" nil)
(3467442717 :nick "joga_" "joga" "i=joga@rikki.fi")
(3467442776 :privmsg "antoszka" "stassats: Qt is humongous, and that won't be a very powerful machine... How about the state of gtk2 support? Last time I looked it seemed either unfinished or abandoned (depending on where I looked)." nil)
(3467442783 :privmsg "tcr" "nikodemus: The problem are foreign calls" nil)
(3467442833 :privmsg "stassats" "antoszka: i haven't used anything besides commonqt and mcclim, but some people here are fond of LTK if you fancy Tk" nil)
(3467442849 :privmsg "kiuma" "hello lispers" nil)
(3467442869 :privmsg "lnostdal" "there's been some recent work on cl-gtk2 ( http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-gtk2/ ) .. i don't know how complete it is" nil)
(3467442887 :privmsg "antoszka" "stassats: Yeah, I like Tk, I'll at it, thx." nil)
(3467442892 :privmsg "nikodemus" "tcr: i don't see how they're different from any third-party code" nil)
(3467442893 :privmsg "nikodemus" "if you use a library with blocking calls without timeout arguments, you're sol -- be that code lisp or c" nil)
(3467442894 :privmsg "antoszka" "s/at/look at/" nil)
(3467442898 :part "tcr" nil "n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de")
(3467442907 :join "tcr" nil "n=tcr@host146.natpool.mwn.de")
(3467442918 :privmsg "tcr" "wrong key" nil)
(3467442964 :privmsg "tcr" "nikodemus: The Lisp stuff is used for high-level reasoning, I don't think it does use much Lisp IO; it more likely talks to the robot io via ffi" nil)
(3467443022 :privmsg "tcr" "I have to learn more about the system." nil)
(3467443024 :action "tcr" "afk" nil)
(3467443054 :privmsg "nikodemus" "tcr: presumably the ffi calls already have necessary realtime guarantees" nil)
(3467443067 :privmsg "nikodemus" "if they don't, it's the C that needs fixing :)" nil)
(3467443217 :join "sp0_of" nil "n=spoof@78.31.74.25")
(3467443229 :join "c|mell" nil "n=cmell@91.151.140.4")
(3467443270 :join "loxs" nil "n=loxs@85-130-35-10.2073285806.ddns.cablebg.net")
(3467443536 :privmsg "aerique" "antoszka: cl-gtk2 was easy enough for me to get working on both linux and windows although i don't know about bitmapped buttons" nil)
(3467443920 :join "carlocci" nil "n=nes@93.37.216.165")
(3467443956 :quit "oudeis" "\"This computer has gone to sleep\"" "n=oudeis@93-172-204-211.bb.netvision.net.il")
(3467443983 :join "attila_lendvai" nil "n=ati@adsl-89-132-7-1.monradsl.monornet.hu")
(3467444083 :privmsg "antoszka" "aerique: thx." nil)
(3467444261 :join "ejs2" nil "n=eugen@77.222.151.102")
(3467444435 :quit "rread" "Remote closed the connection" "n=rread@72-254-98-222.client.stsn.net")
(3467444450 :join "rread" nil "n=rread@72-254-87-23.client.stsn.net")
(3467444504 :quit "c|mell" "\"Leaving\"" "n=cmell@91.151.140.4")
(3467444537 :join "Jafet" nil "n=Jafet@unaffiliated/jafet")
(3467444616 :join "ecraven" nil "n=nex@octonex.swe.uni-linz.ac.at")
(3467444651 :join "Hun" nil "n=hun@p50993726.dip0.t-ipconnect.de")
(3467444836 :quit "borism" "Client Quit" "n=boris@213-35-232-204-dsl.end.estpak.ee")
(3467444840 :join "pavelludiq" nil "i=c28d2f82@gateway/web/freenode/x-brkzetakfculzeec")
(3467444899 :quit "ejs1" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=eugen@nat.ironport.com")
(3467445005 :join "kejsaren_" nil "n=kejsaren@111.25.95.91.static.ras.siw.siwnet.net")
(3467445108 :privmsg "tcr" "stassats: I wonder if slime-open/browse-system should be synchronous, too" nil)
(3467445222 :privmsg "stassats" "(apply (lambda (&rest rest) (declare (dynamic-extent rest)) (reduce #'+ rest)) (make-list 100000 :initial-element 1)) fails for me on sbcl because of dynamic-extent" nil)
(3467445232 :privmsg "stassats" "is usage of dynamic-extent safe?" nil)
(3467445285 :privmsg "tcr" "fails in what way?" nil)
(3467445299 :privmsg "stassats" "CORRUPTION WARNING in SBCL pid 32041(tid 140737354004208): Memory fault at f4d25960 (pc=0x1002c38d4a, sp=0x7ffff4d25960)" nil)
(3467445312 :privmsg "tcr" "holy crap" nil)
(3467445313 :privmsg "stassats" "tcr: i like asynchronous because it doesn't freeze the whole emacs when it, for example, retrieves lisp from swap" nil)
(3467445347 :privmsg "tcr" "stassats: what is the difference between slime-read-system-name with default-value being nil and calling out to swank:asdf-determine-system?" nil)
(3467445378 :privmsg "tcr" "ah ok I guess I see" nil)
(3467445404 :privmsg "tcr" "uhm" nil)
(3467445492 :privmsg "stassats" "hmm, and this dynamics extent seems to fail only on x86-64" nil)
(3467445521 :quit "rread" "Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=rread@72-254-87-23.client.stsn.net")
(3467445523 :part "spradnyesh" nil "n=pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-jpnwxrzukamsqwml")
(3467445537 :join "rread" nil "n=rread@72-254-87-23.client.stsn.net")
(3467445589 :join "poet" nil "n=tim@unaffiliated/poet")
(3467445631 :privmsg "tcr" "stassats: perhaps the behaviour of default-value should also call out to asdf-determine-system?" nil)
(3467445675 :privmsg "stassats" "it's called most of the time from the repl, so i don't think it'd be useful" nil)
(3467445686 :privmsg "stassats" ",load-system etc. i mean" nil)
(3467445689 :quit "poet" "Client Quit" "n=tim@unaffiliated/poet")
(3467445716 :join "oudeis" nil "n=oudeis@62.219.154.220")
(3467445724 :privmsg "stassats" "i _guess_ so" nil)
(3467445756 :privmsg "tcr" "Yes makes sense" nil)
(3467445803 :privmsg "tcr" "I think this should be somewhat refactored though" nil)
(3467445818 :privmsg "tcr" "slime-read-system-name should be able to do both" nil)
(3467445821 :privmsg "tcr" "depending on its arguments" nil)
(3467445985 :join "dv_" nil "n=dv@83-64-248-68.inzersdorf.xdsl-line.inode.at")
(3467446025 :privmsg "nikodemus" "stassats: something no-right with &rest list handling, it seems it should \"just\" blow the stack in worst case, but obviously that is not happening" nil)
(3467446041 :privmsg "nikodemus" "stassats: can you put that on launchpad, please" nil)
(3467446059 :privmsg "stassats" "nikodemus: i'm in the middle of doing it right now" nil)
(3467446069 :privmsg "nikodemus" "thanks!" nil)
(3467446069 :privmsg "nikodemus" "thanks!" nil)
(3467446077 :privmsg "nikodemus" "oops" nil)
(3467446096 :join "ruediger" nil "n=quassel@188-23-89-215.adsl.highway.telekom.at")
(3467446128 :privmsg "stassats" "it blows stack when increasing the length further" nil)
(3467446144 :privmsg "tcr" "stassats: Would mind sharing your improved M-. hack for elisp never mind how bad it is" nil)
(3467446176 :join "ejs1" nil "n=eugen@nat.ironport.com")
(3467446214 :join "_deepfire" nil "n=deepfire@80.92.100.69")
(3467446559 :quit "ejs2" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=eugen@77.222.151.102")
(3467446568 :privmsg "lisppaste" "stassats pasted \"M-. for elisp\" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/90573" nil)
(3467446584 :privmsg "stassats" "only for functions" nil)
(3467446683 :privmsg "tcr" "find-lisp-object-file-name" nil)
(3467446688 :privmsg "tcr" "I don't seem to have that" nil)
(3467446770 :privmsg "stassats" "it's in emacs-23 at least" nil)
(3467446797 :privmsg "tcr" "I'm on emacs-23" nil)
(3467446803 :privmsg "tcr" "23.0.60.1" nil)
(3467446819 :privmsg "tcr" "where is it defined?" nil)
(3467446848 :privmsg "stassats" "i'm on 23.1.50.1, it was introduced at Mon Sep 1 08:04:40 2008, in lisp/help-fns.el" nil)
(3467446920 :privmsg "tcr" "ah well" nil)
(3467446941 :privmsg "tcr" "I have a built from cvs too but I don't want to restart my instance" nil)
(3467446945 :privmsg "tcr" "build" nil)
(3467446972 :join "sellout" nil "n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net")
(3467446999 :join "Edico" nil "n=Edico@unaffiliated/edico")
(3467447026 :quit "rread" nil "n=rread@72-254-87-23.client.stsn.net")
(3467447147 :quit "dang`" "Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)" "n=daniel@S0106001a704b7fbe.cg.shawcable.net")
(3467447153 :quit "G0SUB" "\"Ex-Chat\"" "n=ghoseb@ubuntu/member/gosub")
(3467447443 :join "bulibuta" nil "n=bulibuta@unaffiliated/bulibuta")
(3467447478 :privmsg "bulibuta" "I got sbcl working on OpenBSD-amd64, yay!" nil)
(3467447510 :quit "antoszka" "Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)" "n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka")
(3467447564 :join "silenius" nil "n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net")
(3467447710 :quit "Demosthenes" "\"leaving\"" "n=demo@206.180.154.148.adsl.hal-pc.org")
(3467447752 :privmsg "stassats" "oh great, nor slime's profiler, neither ccl's advice-profiler are willing to work for me on ccl" nil)
(3467447793 :privmsg "sellout" "stassats: What's not working?" nil)
(3467447820 :privmsg "stassats" "Error: Can't resolve foreign symbol \"clock_gettime\" on advice-profiler" nil)
(3467447872 :privmsg "sellout" "stassats: Which version of CCL?" nil)
(3467447910 :privmsg "stassats" "sellout: 1.5-dev-r13204M-trunk  (LinuxX8664)" nil)
(3467447955 :quit "morphling" "Remote closed the connection" "n=stefan@gssn-590d2b20.pool.mediaWays.net")
(3467448082 :join "Axius" nil "n=ade@92.82.91.1")
(3467448185 :privmsg "stassats" "basically, (#_clock_gettime 'foo 'bar) doesn't work" nil)
(3467448220 :join "dlowe" nil "n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net")
(3467448297 :quit "pavelludiq" "\"Page closed\"" "i=c28d2f82@gateway/web/freenode/x-brkzetakfculzeec")
(3467448326 :privmsg "sellout" "Yeah, sorry, not sure why. Hans or #ccl might be helpful." nil)
(3467448340 :quit "oudeis" "\"This computer has gone to sleep\"" "n=oudeis@62.219.154.220")
(3467448441 :join "envi^home" nil "n=envi@220.121.234.156")
(3467448555 :join "Reaver2" nil "n=Data_Ent@h15a2.n2.ips.mtn.co.ug")
(3467448669 :quit "ace4016" "\"night\"" "i=ace4016@cpe-76-170-134-79.socal.res.rr.com")
(3467448785 :quit "sellout" nil "n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net")
(3467448939 :join "sellout" nil "n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net")
(3467449025 :privmsg "Xof" "tcr: the predicate dispatch in Ucko is lame; it sticks all sorts of random stuff into method qualifiers" nil)
(3467449039 :privmsg "Xof" "I don't think allowing it to work is a design goal" nil)
(3467449051 :join "banisterfiend" nil "n=little_b@202-89-134-2.ue.woosh.co.nz")
(3467449061 :quit "dlowe" "\"Leaving.\"" "n=dlowe@c-24-91-154-83.hsd1.ma.comcast.net")
(3467449070 :quit "banisterfiend" "Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=little_b@202-89-134-2.ue.woosh.co.nz")
(3467449187 :privmsg "tcr" "ok" nil)
(3467449205 :privmsg "Xof" "as I remember the report, anyway" nil)
(3467449231 :join "segv" nil "n=mb@p4FC1B2BE.dip.t-dialin.net")
(3467449240 :privmsg "Xof" "now, if someone were to take the Costanza / lichtblau protocol for call-applicable-method-using-specializers and stick it in somewhere, then we'd be talking gravy" nil)
(3467449598 :privmsg "tcr" "speaking of protocols, does anyone know an implementation with a protocol / hooks into their lambda-list parsing?" nil)
(3467449674 :join "nvoorhies" nil "n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net")
(3467449819 :join "konr" nil "n=konrad@201.82.134.163")
(3467449862 :join "flatline" nil "n=flatline@z166195.dynamic.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp")
(3467449875 :join "mstevens" nil "n=mstevens@zazen.etla.org")
(3467450115 :privmsg "splittist" "'No results found for \"call-applicable-method-using-specializers\".'" nil)
(3467450123 :privmsg "splittist" "Google sux!" nil)
(3467450191 :join "demmeln" nil "n=Adium@lapradig96.informatik.tu-muenchen.de")
(3467450263 :join "mvillene1ve" nil "n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr")
(3467450279 :quit "mvilleneuve" "Nick collision from services." "n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr")
(3467450283 :nick "mvillene1ve" "mvilleneuve" "n=mvillene@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr")
(3467450318 :privmsg "nikodemus" "hmh, how did i tell sbcl that some file is to be loaded only for a given implementation?" nil)
(3467450369 :quit "Axius" "\"Leaving\"" "n=ade@92.82.91.1")
(3467450396 :privmsg "lichtblau" "http://www.doc.gold.ac.uk/~mas01cr/talks" nil)
(3467450402 :privmsg "lichtblau" "http://www.lichteblau.com/git/?p=specializable.git;a=summary" nil)
(3467450507 :privmsg "lichtblau" "splittist: see above.  Don't know whether Pascal's superior proposal is available anywhere except in Xof's INBOX." nil)
(3467450535 :privmsg "splittist" "lichtblau: thanks!" nil)
(3467450598 :join "Guthur" nil "i=c13dbf14@gateway/web/freenode/x-gqhzrvcnlspuumpl")
(3467450628 :join "Yuuhi" nil "i=benni@p5483AE98.dip.t-dialin.net")
(3467450728 :join "blackened`" nil "n=blackene@ip-89-102-22-70.karneval.cz")
(3467450814 :privmsg "madnificent" "talking to Original about AI is somewhat cruel... people that don't know the difficulties of the description of AI alone think they know what it means" nil)
(3467451030 :join "daniel_" nil "i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel")
(3467451156 :join "antoszka" nil "n=antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka")
(3467451233 :quit "ia" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=ia@89.169.161.244")
(3467451287 :join "ia" nil "n=ia@89.169.161.244")
(3467451309 :join "OmniMancer1" nil "n=OmniManc@219-89-107-44.jetstart.xtra.co.nz")
(3467451354 :join "ignas" nil "n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt")
(3467451374 :privmsg "splittist" "madnificent: on the other hand, Skynet teaches us that AI comes about when people aren't even trying to achieve it." nil)
(3467451434 :quit "Jasko" "\"Leaving\"" "n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net")
(3467451515 :join "Jasko2" nil "n=tjasko@c-174-59-195-12.hsd1.pa.comcast.net")
(3467451523 :privmsg "Guthur" "i think skynet is a little bit of the problem, people have a view of AI that is tainted somewhat by science fiction" nil)
(3467451592 :privmsg "Guthur" "though emergent behaviour is pretty interesting, they recently did some robotic experiences at my uni with gap transversal, getting a robot to got through a gap" nil)
(3467451601 :privmsg "Jafet" ".oO( Are we still trying to write sentient AI in lisp? )" nil)
(3467451602 :privmsg "Guthur" "it end up the robot was right handed" nil)
(3467451687 :privmsg "Xof" "lichtblau: isn't it in your inbox too?" nil)
(3467451704 :privmsg "Guthur" "but the thing was that the operator that trained it, most likely had a tendency towards right handed gap traversal" nil)
(3467451773 :privmsg "Guthur" "when i questioned the professor about it he wasn't to forthcoming though" nil)
(3467451846 :quit "Phoodus" "Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)" "i=foo@ip68-231-37-148.ph.ph.cox.net")
(3467451851 :quit "Guthur" "\"Page closed\"" "i=c13dbf14@gateway/web/freenode/x-gqhzrvcnlspuumpl")
(3467452042 :quit "daniel" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "i=daniel@unaffiliated/daniel")
(3467452055 :quit "Adlai" "Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)" "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467452169 :join "Fare" nil "n=Fare@c-24-218-127-11.hsd1.ma.comcast.net")
(3467452194 :action "Fare" "is experiencing an interesting case of appearing-disappearing common-lisp-controller on CLISP." nil)
(3467452210 :quit "OmniMancer" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=OmniManc@219-89-94-1.jetstart.xtra.co.nz")
(3467452210 :quit "ignas" "Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)" "n=ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt")
(3467452268 :action "Fare" "traces it to his use of no-asdf" nil)
(3467452288 :action "Fare" "wonders how things ever worked on other compilers..." nil)
(3467452289 :quit "eno" "Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno")
(3467452296 :join "Adlai" nil "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467452393 :join "eno" nil "n=eno@nslu2-linux/eno")
(3467452405 :join "Krystof" nil "n=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk")
(3467452429 :join "longkid" nil "n=lisp@113.22.177.216")
(3467452451 :privmsg "longkid" "hello all" nil)
(3467452457 :privmsg "dto" "hi longkid" nil)
(3467452524 :join "rstandy" nil "n=rastandy@net-93-144-146-194.t2.dsl.vodafone.it")
(3467452627 :join "ska`" nil "n=user@ppp-58-8-127-155.revip2.asianet.co.th")
(3467452699 :action "_deepfire" "is utterly amazed by how effectively cheap TN TFT panels murder colors." nil)
(3467452895 :join "Phoodus" nil "i=foo@ip68-231-37-148.ph.ph.cox.net")
(3467452903 :privmsg "longkid" "if i want to print a integer number to screen, i use (format t \"~S\" number)???" nil)
(3467452913 :privmsg "longkid" "is it right?" nil)
(3467452958 :privmsg "stassats" "if that's what you want, yes" nil)
(3467452958 :privmsg "Fare" "_deepfire, TN ?" nil)
(3467452976 :privmsg "stassats" "(princ 10) would work to" nil)
(3467452978 :privmsg "Fare" "longkid, I'd add in a ~% at the end" nil)
(3467452993 :privmsg "Fare" "but that's just me" nil)
(3467453007 :privmsg "longkid" "Fare: to add a new line. Right?" nil)
(3467453014 :privmsg "Adlai" "clhs ~R" nil)
(3467453014 :privmsg "specbot" "http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_cba.htm" nil)
(3467453015 :action "Adlai" "would use that!" nil)
(3467453028 :quit "cmm" "Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=cmm@bzq-82-81-3-167.red.bezeqint.net")
(3467453029 :privmsg "Adlai" "maybe throw in a ~:@R for good effect" nil)
(3467453032 :action "stassats" "would use ~a" nil)
(3467453036 :action "Xach" "likes ~:D" nil)
(3467453061 :privmsg "Phoodus" "Or you could just write it in assembly language!  <ducks and runs>" nil)
(3467453100 :join "Odin-" nil "n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is")
(3467453105 :privmsg "Fare" "Phoodus, yes but only if your assembly language is in parenthetized syntax. We have standards, here." nil)
(3467453134 :privmsg "Fare" "Xach, you win the contest for the smiliest smiley" nil)
(3467453148 :privmsg "pkhuong" "Fare: or wrapped in parentheses, to follow LOOP's lead." nil)
(3467453178 :privmsg "Adlai" "Fare, like CCL LAP?" nil)
(3467453208 :privmsg "_deepfire" "Fare, the cheapest TFT technology, \"twisten nematic\"" nil)
(3467453212 :privmsg "_deepfire" "*twisted" nil)
(3467453218 :privmsg "Fare" "Adlai, or Lisp Machine LAP" nil)
(3467453221 :quit "george" "Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=george@189.107.150.164")
(3467453280 :privmsg "Fare" "pkhuong, well then, we must accept an assembly syntax based on one-letter instructions with a ~ prefix and numeric and boolean modifiers" nil)
(3467453315 :join "george" nil "n=george@189.107.157.39")
(3467453324 :join "oudeis" nil "n=oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net")
(3467453358 :privmsg "Fare" "mov rax, (8*rbx+rcx)145 ==> ~0,145,2,1,8@M" nil)
(3467453374 :privmsg "tic" "my eyes!" nil)
(3467453378 :privmsg "p_l" "ouch" nil)
(3467453415 :privmsg "longkid" "is there differences when using ~A or ~S to print a number?" nil)
(3467453423 :privmsg "stassats" "you're touchy, that's relatively harmless control-string" nil)
(3467453526 :privmsg "spiaggia" "longkid: don't thinks so, no." nil)
(3467453534 :action "Fare" "tracked down his problem with using no-asdf on the master but not on the slave. Sigh." nil)
(3467453558 :action "Fare" "would prefer for implementations to all be upgraded to a recent ASDF, but that won't happen any time soon." nil)
(3467453589 :privmsg "Adlai" "longkid, I find http://l1sp.org/pcl/format helpful" nil)
(3467453708 :privmsg "longkid" "Adlai: thanks" nil)
(3467453751 :nick "legumbre_" "legumbre" "n=leo@r190-135-47-215.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy")
(3467453786 :quit "Athas`" "Remote closed the connection" "n=athas@0x50a157d6.alb2nxx15.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk")
(3467453843 :privmsg "_deepfire" "Fare, that's why desire's bootstrap pulls, compiles and loads fresh ASDF as step #0." nil)
(3467453921 :quit "SandGorgon" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=OmNomNom@122.160.41.129")
(3467454062 :join "billstclai" nil "n=billstcl@dsl-74-209-25-128.taconic.net")
(3467454129 :privmsg "pkhuong" "Fare: mixing at&t and intel, are you? (:" nil)
(3467454171 :join "benny" nil "n=benny@i577A1167.versanet.de")
(3467454248 :privmsg "Fare" "pkhuong, I haven't written assembly code in ages. Not done it in 64-bit ever." nil)
(3467454273 :privmsg "Fare" "_deepfire, do you compile your own CL implementation, too?" nil)
(3467454297 :privmsg "Fare" "_deepfire, because otherwise, on debian, you'll have problems, as the new ASDF causes errors when loaded on top of an old one." nil)
(3467454304 :join "dlowe" nil "n=dlowe@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com")
(3467454310 :privmsg "Fare" "(which is the reason why I wrote no-asdf.lisp to begin with)" nil)
(3467454315 :join "lexa_" nil "n=lexa_@seonet.ru")
(3467454338 :nick "lexa_" "Guest14597" "n=lexa_@seonet.ru")
(3467454444 :quit "billstclair" "Read error: 113 (No route to host)" "n=billstcl@unaffiliated/billstclair")
(3467454481 :privmsg "_deepfire" "Fare, ouch!" nil)
(3467454537 :quit "kpreid" nil "n=kpreid@216-171-189-244.northland.net")
(3467454622 :privmsg "Xach" "ah, that's a great name for an extensible binding form a la BIND: LET*!" nil)
(3467454631 :action "Xach" "stumbles across http://github.com/ks/X.LET-STAR" nil)
(3467454678 :privmsg "Fare" "(and the old one is included by c-l-c)" nil)
(3467454693 :join "ignas" nil "n=ignas@78-60-73-85.static.zebra.lt")
(3467454730 :action "splittist" "wonders if unicode has asterisk-likes with different numbers of points..." nil)
(3467454741 :privmsg "Fare" "_deepfire, and I just bit myself by including in the xcvb test suite a test that runs on top of xcvb (using no-asdf) that tries to load the hello world example (using cl-launch compiled while not using no-asdf)" nil)
(3467454942 :quit "Adlai" "Remote closed the connection" "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467454947 :quit "jdz" "\"Boot me gently\"" "n=jdz@85.254.211.133")
(3467454950 :privmsg "splittist" "Unicode 2700 - 274B, FWIW. Let #x4b LET-STAR's bloom!" nil)
(3467454966 :privmsg "splittist" "(or #x4C, I guess)" nil)
(3467455004 :privmsg "splittist" "No, from 2721.." nil)
(3467455015 :action "splittist" "gives up. #lisp sighs with relief" nil)
(3467455040 :privmsg "_deepfire" "Fare, how do you unload it: delete-package?" nil)
(3467455041 :privmsg "Fare" "let" nil)
(3467455062 :privmsg "Fare" "_deepfire, see in xcvb/no-asdf -- not *just* delete-package" nil)
(3467455115 :join "ejs2" nil "n=eugen@77.222.151.102")
(3467455116 :privmsg "_deepfire" "Fare, I once tried to make ASDF systems reloadable, my naive approach was to delete-package.  Of course it leaked memory (IIRC pkhuong said it was due to symbols not being deleted..)" nil)
(3467455148 :join "Adlai" nil "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467455162 :privmsg "Fare" "delete-package basically works, except that other packages use yours, and are used, etc." nil)
(3467455167 :part "Guest14597" nil "n=lexa_@seonet.ru")
(3467455174 :privmsg "Fare" "plus there is some \"magic\" cleanup to be done for SBCL" nil)
(3467455205 :privmsg "Fare" "once again, utsl" nil)
(3467455263 :join "kpreid" nil "n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net")
(3467455272 :privmsg "_deepfire" "minion, what does utsl stand for?" nil)
(3467455272 :privmsg "minion" "Unloverly Transponible Streltzi Limitlessly" nil)
(3467455286 :privmsg "_deepfire" "Hmm :-)" nil)
(3467455286 :privmsg "Fare" "Use The Source, Luke" nil)
(3467455291 :privmsg "_3b" "splittist: what, no let-airplane or -scissors?" nil)
(3467455345 :privmsg "splittist" "_3b: that's for advanced use. YOu shouldn't run with -scissors (:" nil)
(3467455347 :join "Demosthenes" nil "n=demo@206.180.154.148.adsl.hal-pc.org")
(3467455369 :privmsg "Fare" "run-with" nil)
(3467455371 :privmsg "_deepfire" "Fare, I knew about other packages -- I deleted packages in proper, linearised reverse order." nil)
(3467455394 :privmsg "_deepfire" "So it appears I lacked the SBCL-specific magic you mentioned.." nil)
(3467455444 :privmsg "_deepfire" "(Maybe you even cannot delete a package if it's used by others, in SBCL, I don't remember..)" nil)
(3467455501 :privmsg "Fare" "or maybe you can, and then \"interesting\" things happen afterwards" nil)
(3467455564 :quit "Adlai" "Remote closed the connection" "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467455703 :quit "ejs1" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=eugen@nat.ironport.com")
(3467455761 :join "Haplo_" nil "n=ihatchon@LPuteaux-156-14-10-37.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr")
(3467455816 :quit "OmniMancer1" "\"Leaving.\"" "n=OmniManc@219-89-107-44.jetstart.xtra.co.nz")
(3467455974 :join "bobbysmith007" nil "n=russ@one.firewall.gnv.acceleration.net")
(3467456175 :join "jleija" nil "n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net")
(3467456185 :privmsg "Xach" "If only there were some sort of document to give us canonical guidance on the topic." nil)
(3467456246 :join "Geralt" nil "n=Geralt@vpn-cl-161-130.rz.uni-karlsruhe.de")
(3467456317 :privmsg "nyef" "Meanwhile, any SBCL developer who's ever looked at this shudders at the thought of trying to make it work \"right\", but knows that the issue is that the symbols are held by the infodb." nil)
(3467456350 :privmsg "nyef" "You -might- be able to fmakunbound the symbols first, which should reduce though probably not eliminate the memory load." nil)
(3467456419 :privmsg "nyef" "(Using fmakunbound clears the references from the fdefinition objects to the code components, which would be a start.)" nil)
(3467456481 :privmsg "Haplo_" "hi everyone" nil)
(3467456501 :privmsg "_deepfire" "nyef, sounds like a plan.. too bad I did rm -rf ~/source/reloadable.." nil)
(3467456546 :privmsg "_deepfire" "Aha, apparently I still have it elsewhere.." nil)
(3467456834 :privmsg "Fare" "nyef: so first, fmakunbound and makunbound all these symbols, then unintern them, then delete the package?" nil)
(3467456850 :privmsg "Fare" "(but first, recurse on using packages)" nil)
(3467457011 :join "setheus" nil "n=setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com")
(3467457117 :quit "Geralt" "\"Leaving.\"" "n=Geralt@unaffiliated/thegeralt")
(3467457209 :join "cvandusen" nil "n=user@12.185.80.194")
(3467457280 :privmsg "bulibuta" "any sbcl hackers around here?" nil)
(3467457391 :privmsg "froydnj" "yes, lots" nil)
(3467457451 :join "DrunkTomato" nil "n=DEDULO@ext-gw.wellcom.tomsk.ru")
(3467457477 :quit "sellout" "Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)" "n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net")
(3467457481 :privmsg "bulibuta" "I have quite a bunch of patches after the last commit of sbcl on the OpenBSD ports tree" nil)
(3467457490 :privmsg "bulibuta" "was wondering if some of those could go upstream" nil)
(3467457499 :privmsg "bulibuta" "so that they don't have to be maintained" nil)
(3467457541 :join "sellout" nil "n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net")
(3467457543 :privmsg "froydnj" "they probably could.  are they easily viewable on the web?" nil)
(3467457587 :quit "ska`" "Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=user@ppp-58-8-127-155.revip2.asianet.co.th")
(3467457593 :privmsg "bulibuta" "yes they are, but not at this very moment as there was an AC outage a few hours ago and stuff had to be turned off and restarted" nil)
(3467457608 :privmsg "bulibuta" "http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/ports/lang/sbcl/patches/" nil)
(3467457618 :privmsg "bulibuta" "this is where you can see them" nil)
(3467457915 :quit "Yuuhi" "\"ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)\"" "i=benni@p5483AE98.dip.t-dialin.net")
(3467457919 :privmsg "froydnj" "the makefile changes are probably ok, though I'm not sure I understand the point." nil)
(3467457940 :privmsg "froydnj" "I'm not an expert on the runtime path bits, but they look ok-ish" nil)
(3467458007 :privmsg "froydnj" "the contrib changes need to be reworked or subjected to external discussion" nil)
(3467458009 :privmsg "bulibuta" "which makefile? GNUmakefile" nil)
(3467458013 :privmsg "pkhuong" "ir1util has already been merged." nil)
(3467458039 :privmsg "froydnj" "GNUmakefile + Config.x86-openbsd" nil)
(3467458074 :privmsg "bulibuta" "pkhuong: in the .32 release, right?" nil)
(3467458113 :privmsg "pkhuong" "1.0.32.14" nil)
(3467458129 :privmsg "bulibuta" "yes, that's not ported yet. 1.0.31 version is the latest that works at the moment" nil)
(3467458165 :privmsg "bulibuta" "but if its upstream that means one more patch to go when 1.0.32 will be ready, yay" nil)
(3467458197 :join "spradnyesh" nil "n=pradyus@122.167.80.202")
(3467458205 :join "rrice" nil "n=rrice@adsl-99-51-212-135.dsl.akrnoh.sbcglobal.net")
(3467458250 :quit "Odin-" nil "n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is")
(3467458252 :privmsg "bulibuta" "I'm quite happy that the all the regression tests pass too" nil)
(3467458273 :privmsg "Fare" "whoa, macrolet on keywords??? I'm stumped." nil)
(3467458324 :quit "ejs2" "Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)" "n=eugen@77.222.151.102")
(3467458344 :privmsg "bulibuta" "anyway, I'm out for now, be back later tonight" nil)
(3467458352 :privmsg "rahul" "Fare: it's legal, like flet on keywords" nil)
(3467458366 :join "ejs2" nil "n=eugen@nat.ironport.com")
(3467458367 :privmsg "rahul" "not a good idea in most situations tho" nil)
(3467458371 :privmsg "pkhuong" "Or defun and defmacro." nil)
(3467458416 :privmsg "Haplo_" "any CLX hackers around here ?" nil)
(3467458432 :privmsg "demmeln" "I'm looking for a serialization library for CL. My needs are fairly simple, though i need to serialize some objects by reference (as opposed to by value). Candidates from cliki seem to be cl-store or cl-serializer. Does anyone have experience with both/either?" nil)
(3467458451 :privmsg "demmeln" "(few dependencies are a plus)" nil)
(3467458501 :privmsg "serichsen" "demmeln: do you serialize for transmitting, or do you simply need a store?" nil)
(3467458502 :nick "r0bby" "r0bby|android_" "n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby")
(3467458512 :privmsg "demmeln" "store/read" nil)
(3467458517 :join "Athas" nil "n=athas@192.38.109.188")
(3467458535 :quit "spradnyesh" "Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=pradyus@122.167.80.202")
(3467458541 :privmsg "serichsen" "demmeln: I'm experimenting with rucksack right now; it might fit" nil)
(3467458553 :nick "r0bby|android_" "r0bby|android__" "n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby")
(3467458553 :join "spradnyesh" nil "n=pradyus@122.167.118.48")
(3467458601 :nick "r0bby|android__" "r0bby" "n=wakawaka@guifications/user/r0bby")
(3467458719 :privmsg "demmeln" "serichsen: I saw that as well on cliki, you are right." nil)
(3467458732 :privmsg "demmeln" "according to clbuild rucksack and cl-store have no dependencies" nil)
(3467458741 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "demmeln, i'm just working on lowering the deps for hu.dwim.serializer (formerly cl-serializer). source available at http://dwim.hu/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi" nil)
(3467458769 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "it supports fine-grained control on what keeps identity (for runtime memory/speed price)" nil)
(3467458808 :privmsg "demmeln" "attila_lendvai: Oh I need to have a look at it. Thanks" nil)
(3467458825 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "although we don't have a far-fetched strategy to keep binary compatibility. so if you are planning to use the data long-term then that's some minus points in the decision" nil)
(3467458879 :privmsg "attila_lendvai" "on how to keep, that is. we gave some thoughts to it, but not that much. although, maybe i say that because levy was mainly working on it not me..." nil)
(3467458893 :action "attila_lendvai" "needs to leave" nil)
(3467458904 :privmsg "demmeln" "attila_lendvai: ok thank. bye" nil)
(3467459075 :privmsg "nyef" "Haplo_: I occasionally hack on CLX, why?" nil)
(3467459098 :privmsg "longkid" "(setf j (random 9))" nil)
(3467459099 :privmsg "longkid" "(loop" nil)
(3467459099 :privmsg "longkid" "     do (setf k (random 9))" nil)
(3467459099 :privmsg "longkid" "     while (= k j))" nil)
(3467459111 :privmsg "tic" "minion, lisppaste" nil)
(3467459112 :privmsg "lisppaste" "To use the lisppaste bot, visit http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp and enter your paste." nil)
(3467459137 :action "attila_lendvai" "waves bye" nil)
(3467459139 :quit "attila_lendvai" "\"...\"" "n=ati@adsl-89-132-7-1.monradsl.monornet.hu")
(3467459151 :quit "ejs2" "Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=eugen@nat.ironport.com")
(3467459199 :part "kpreid" nil "n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net")
(3467459209 :join "mattrepl" nil "n=mattrepl@pool-71-163-162-204.washdc.fios.verizon.net")
(3467459290 :join "kpreid" nil "n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net")
(3467459357 :privmsg "Haplo_" "nyef: using the latest cmucl 20a version, leads to change in the <mumble>-equal functions. They now requires that both arguments are of the proper type. Thus (window-equal nil <some-window>) raises a type error nil is not an XLIB:WINDOW. Even if this is logical reading the source, it does not seem obvious to me that a predicate should behave like that." nil)
(3467459369 :privmsg "Haplo_" ":-s" nil)
(3467459416 :privmsg "lisppaste" "longkid pasted \"lambda expression\" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/90580" nil)
(3467459441 :privmsg "nyef" "That does seem odd. And it's also not the branch of CLX that I hack on, so I really don't know anything about that change." nil)
(3467459500 :privmsg "pkhuong" "longkid: are you sure you don't have parentheses around the two forms you pasted?" nil)
(3467459536 :action "Fare" "realizes that the patch he sent to the mailing-list uses #+unix instead of #!+unix and that causes compilation failure of SBCL" nil)
(3467459539 :privmsg "longkid" "of course, I have 2 parentheses around those forms" nil)
(3467459560 :privmsg "Fare" "so much for testing compilation of the file with C-c C-k" nil)
(3467459581 :privmsg "pkhuong" "Fare: Better than silently working." nil)
(3467459592 :privmsg "Fare" "pkhuong, certainly." nil)
(3467459605 :privmsg "Fare" "though the error message could be more explicit" nil)
(3467459625 :privmsg "Fare" "as in \"You used #+unix, you probably meant #!+unix!" nil)
(3467459626 :privmsg "Haplo_" "nyef: well this is an import of the latest TELENT version" nil)
(3467459653 :privmsg "longkid" "pkhuong: so where is the problem?" nil)
(3467459662 :privmsg "nyef" "Haplo_: From Krystof's repository?" nil)
(3467459668 :privmsg "Fare" "also, I suppose there should be a standard sbcl-guts-hacking-mode for SLIME. Or is there already?" nil)
(3467459669 :privmsg "pkhuong" "longkid: in the surrounding parentheses." nil)
(3467459677 :join "brown" nil "n=user@72.14.228.129")
(3467459678 :privmsg "pkhuong" "Fare: what would that do?" nil)
(3467459703 :privmsg "longkid" "pkhuong: but I've already put parentheses around them" nil)
(3467459704 :privmsg "Fare" "allow me to compile code from sbcl innards in the same language variant as SBCL" nil)
(3467459705 :nick "brown" "Guest39654" "n=user@72.14.228.129")
(3467459730 :privmsg "Fare" "so I detect this kind of error interactively (and also, can waive package locks, infodb overrides, etc.)" nil)
(3467459744 :privmsg "pkhuong" "longkid: and that's the problem." nil)
(3467459758 :quit "Krystof" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=csr21@howells.doc.gold.ac.uk")
(3467459798 :privmsg "Haplo_" "nyef: I would say yes according the cvs log message: Import portable clx version from Christophe Rhodes darcs repository as of 2009-06-16." nil)
(3467459828 :privmsg "nyef" "_deepfire: I have a possibly-more-complete \"solution\" for package destruction. For each symbol to be destroyed, and each non-nil element in the array sb-c::*info-types*, (sb-c::clear-info-value <symbol> <element>)." nil)
(3467459860 :privmsg "demmeln" "serichsen: any reason you preferred rucksack over cl-store?" nil)
(3467459884 :privmsg "longkid" "pkhuong: b/c those forms are in the body of a loop, so i have to put parentheses around" nil)
(3467459908 :privmsg "Fare" "longkid, progn?" nil)
(3467459909 :privmsg "pkhuong" "minion: tell longkid about pcl" nil)
(3467459910 :privmsg "minion" "longkid: look at pcl: pcl-book: \"Practical Common Lisp\", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005)." nil)
(3467459917 :privmsg "pkhuong" "longkid: read a book." nil)
(3467459957 :join "rajesh" nil "n=rajesh@nylug/member/rajesh")
(3467459993 :privmsg "longkid" "minion: thanks, i'll read it" nil)
(3467459993 :privmsg "minion" "np" nil)
(3467460024 :quit "nvoorhies" nil "n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net")
(3467460050 :part "longkid" nil "n=lisp@113.22.177.216")
(3467460133 :privmsg "dostoyevsky" "Someone familiar with memory allocators?" nil)
(3467460144 :quit "oudeis" "\"Leaving\"" "n=oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net")
(3467460168 :quit "sellout" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=greg@c-24-128-48-180.hsd1.ma.comcast.net")
(3467460199 :quit "nowhere_man" "Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net")
(3467460211 :join "nowhere_man" nil "n=pierre@lec67-4-82-235-57-28.fbx.proxad.net")
(3467460246 :privmsg "Fare" "dostoyevsky, what kind of memory allocators?" nil)
(3467460250 :privmsg "Fare" "like GC innards?" nil)
(3467460300 :quit "jleija" "\"Changing server\"" "n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net")
(3467460310 :privmsg "nyef" "Haplo_: I found the commit in my copy of the repository." nil)
(3467460327 :privmsg "nyef" "Dated Oct 6, 2008." nil)
(3467460348 :privmsg "Haplo_" "I think its quite correct" nil)
(3467460376 :join "pr" nil "n=pr@unaffiliated/pr")
(3467460381 :privmsg "Haplo_" "the only question is shouldn't it accept other typed arguments" nil)
(3467460382 :privmsg "nyef" "It's using a declare type on the arguments, which is reasonable as far as it goes." nil)
(3467460442 :join "jleija" nil "n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net")
(3467460447 :privmsg "nyef" "It possibly should, but that raises the question of what to do if neither argument is a window/pixmap/cursor?" nil)
(3467460469 :quit "jleija" "Client Quit" "n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net")
(3467460477 :privmsg "dostoyevsky" "Fare: I just notice that I am in the wrong #.  It's a C memory allocator (the easiest) I've written and I end up with a too large list of free blocks because allocation requests just get bigger.." nil)
(3467460541 :privmsg "Haplo_" "nyef: I know, the old equality problem ..." nil)
(3467460559 :privmsg "Fare" "dostoyevsky, suffering from memory leaks through impossibility of compaction?" nil)
(3467460572 :privmsg "Fare" "dostoyevsky, look for buddy allocation algorithms." nil)
(3467460580 :privmsg "pkhuong" "Fare: sounds more like a lack of buddying." nil)
(3467460586 :privmsg "Fare" "or welcome to the world of moving / compacting collectors." nil)
(3467460591 :join "jleija" nil "n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net")
(3467460591 :privmsg "dostoyevsky" "Fare: Yes...  I wonder how modern malloc implementations do it..." nil)
(3467460595 :privmsg "Haplo_" "nyef: I'll probably patch it for my own purpose in Eclipse" nil)
(3467460596 :privmsg "nyef" "(If only one argument is a window, then they obviously aren't window-equal, but if neither is a window then they are both equally as far as windowness is concerned.)" nil)
(3467460629 :quit "jleija" "Client Quit" "n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net")
(3467460630 :privmsg "Fare" "dostoyevsky, and/or you can have pools by size, taking advantage of a large address space..." nil)
(3467460642 :privmsg "nyef" "You doing anything with GLX in Eclipse?" nil)
(3467460689 :join "Adlai" nil "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467460689 :privmsg "Fare" "(buddies are kind of automatic size-pooling, at the code of a rather coarse size classification)" nil)
(3467460745 :join "jleija" nil "n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net")
(3467460790 :privmsg "dostoyevsky" "Fare: Thanks for your thoughts. ;-)" nil)
(3467460843 :quit "george" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=george@189.107.157.39")
(3467460952 :privmsg "Fare" "at long last, a clean test of xcvb-master on clisp, past that ASDF package madness!" nil)
(3467461069 :join "lupine_85" nil "n=quassel@unaffiliated/lupine-85/x-7392152")
(3467461167 :privmsg "Jafet" "dostoyevsky, go look at a modern malloc implementation" nil)
(3467461212 :join "ikki" nil "n=ikki@201.155.75.146")
(3467461287 :quit "Adlai" "Remote closed the connection" "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467461330 :join "Adlai" nil "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467461336 :privmsg "rahul" "dostoyevsky: glibc's malloc uses a buddy allocator" nil)
(3467461396 :quit "ikki" "Remote closed the connection" "n=ikki@201.155.75.146")
(3467461416 :privmsg "Haplo_" "nyef: no nothing with GLX at the moment, it would be a great idea but I've never start anything in that direction so far." nil)
(3467461418 :privmsg "rahul" "dostoyevsky: and remember, you can always steal space from a buddy region that is for objects smaller than yours" nil)
(3467461507 :quit "Adlai" "Remote closed the connection" "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467461511 :join "tobetchi" nil "n=tobetchi@p296ba7.sagant01.ap.so-net.ne.jp")
(3467461552 :join "Adlai" nil "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467461598 :privmsg "Fare" "rahul, thief!" nil)
(3467461618 :join "ikki" nil "n=ikki@201.155.75.146")
(3467461700 :quit "Adlai" "Remote closed the connection" "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467461735 :join "slyrus_" nil "n=slyrus@adsl-75-36-215-18.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net")
(3467461762 :quit "kpreid" nil "n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net")
(3467461781 :quit "jleija" "\"leaving\"" "n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net")
(3467461857 :quit "blandest" "\"Leaving.\"" "n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro")
(3467461872 :join "blandest" nil "n=blandest@softhouse.is.ew.ro")
(3467461906 :join "jleija" nil "n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net")
(3467461924 :quit "ganbold" "Remote closed the connection" "n=ganbold@202.131.232.87")
(3467461969 :join "ejs" nil "n=eugen@250-46-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net")
(3467462070 :quit "ASau" "\"off\"" "n=user@77.246.230.247")
(3467462166 :quit "jleija" "Client Quit" "n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net")
(3467462307 :join "kpreid" nil "n=kpreid@209-217-212-34.northland.net")
(3467462351 :privmsg "fatalnix1995" "Haha, I just realized the line at the top of the page:" nil)
(3467462361 :privmsg "fatalnix1995" "\"that book is dead sexy \\u2014Xach on #lisp\"" nil)
(3467462373 :join "milanj" nil "n=milan@93.86.187.145")
(3467462411 :privmsg "fatalnix1995" "Of the practical common lisp book" nil)
(3467462494 :privmsg "Xof" "\\u2014, eh?" nil)
(3467462510 :quit "nunb" "\"This computer has gone to sleep\"" "n=nundan@static-217-133-104-225.clienti.tiscali.it")
(3467462511 :privmsg "fatalnix1995" "that would be a -" nil)
(3467462530 :privmsg "fatalnix1995" "firefox seems to do that" nil)
(3467462540 :join "jleija" nil "n=jleija@user-24-214-122-46.knology.net")
(3467462546 :privmsg "fatalnix1995" "with a lot of things, actually" nil)
(3467462598 :privmsg "fatalnix1995" "In fact, I'm not eve 100% sure its firefox because sometimes it doesnt, but in most cases it does, but whenever I paste into a terminal it imediately becomes that, and I've seen it happen other places too. I'm guessing it might just be aterm" nil)
(3467462602 :quit "mejja" "Remote closed the connection" "n=user@c-49b6e555.023-82-73746f38.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se")
(3467462642 :quit "myrkraverk`" "Connection timed out" "n=johann@157-157-75-2.dsl.dynamic.simnet.is")
(3467462809 :quit "trebor_dki" "Read error: 148 (No route to host)" "n=user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de")
(3467462824 :privmsg "Fare" "what if you copy to an emacs window?" nil)
(3467462900 :privmsg "fatalnix1995" "comes out normal" nil)
(3467462904 :privmsg "rahul" "fatalnix1995: that gets interpreted by the shell as a dash" nil)
(3467462914 :privmsg "fatalnix1995" "ah" nil)
(3467462925 :privmsg "rahul" "so terminals paste non-7-bit characters that way" nil)
(3467462929 :join "Paraselene__" nil "n=None@79-68-173-7.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com")
(3467462950 :privmsg "rahul" "echo \"that book is dead sexy \\u2014Xach on #lisp\"  at a shell prompt to see" nil)
(3467462981 :privmsg "Xof" "the comment I was aiming for was not \"let's talk about Unicode for ages\", but more \"please proofread what you paste into your IRC client\"" nil)
(3467462992 :privmsg "fatalnix1995" "it just returns \\u2014" nil)
(3467463016 :privmsg "rahul" "fatalnix1995: hmm. works fine with zsh in rxvt" nil)
(3467463032 :privmsg "rahul" "fatalnix1995: could be that your font doesn't support unicode, also" nil)
(3467463043 :privmsg "fatalnix1995" "zsh says character not in range" nil)
(3467463052 :privmsg "fatalnix1995" "and cuts it off at sexy" nil)
(3467463054 :privmsg "rahul" "maybe you have an old zsh version" nil)
(3467463066 :privmsg "fatalnix1995" "I wouldnt doubt it" nil)
(3467463069 :privmsg "rahul" "I have 4.3.10" nil)
(3467463072 :privmsg "fatalnix1995" "with the distro I use" nil)
(3467463076 :privmsg "fatalnix1995" "zsh 4.3.10 (i486-slackware-linux-gnu)" nil)
(3467463093 :privmsg "rahul" "shrug, maybe it's just slackware's miscompilation of it" nil)
(3467463111 :privmsg "fatalnix1995" "could be" nil)
(3467463221 :privmsg "Fare" "how long do sbcl tests take, already? (order of magnitude, say on a 1.2GHz PC)" nil)
(3467463264 :privmsg "fatalnix1995" "yeah it doesnt work on xterm, rxvt or aterm, and if it works on rxvt it should work on aterm lol" nil)
(3467463265 :privmsg "Xof" "10 minutes" nil)
(3467463282 :privmsg "fatalnix1995" "it might work on urxvt" nil)
(3467463295 :join "nvoorhies" nil "n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net")
(3467463302 :quit "silenius" "Remote closed the connection" "n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net")
(3467463336 :privmsg "Fare" "or maybe he's using the zsh option BSD_ECHO" nil)
(3467463400 :action "Fare" "runs tests before to re-submit patch" nil)
(3467463406 :privmsg "fatalnix1995" "thats very possible" nil)
(3467463416 :privmsg "fatalnix1995" "seems how Slackware sticks close to BSD like operation" nil)
(3467463467 :nick "Guest10190" "xristos" "n=nx@research.suspicious.org")
(3467463494 :privmsg "Fare" "is it normal to see backtraces in the log of run-tests.sh ?" nil)
(3467463498 :privmsg "Xof" "yes" nil)
(3467463511 :privmsg "Xof" "not many but some, around the threads tests" nil)
(3467463523 :privmsg "Fare" "yup, was around the threads tests." nil)
(3467463527 :privmsg "Xof" "even some \"zillions of nested errors, died horribly\" are normal" nil)
(3467463569 :quit "grouzen" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=grouzen@91.214.124.2")
(3467463614 :privmsg "Fare" "/apparent success (reached end of run-tests.sh normally) ---- yay!" nil)
(3467463616 :join "fusss" nil "n=chatzill@60-241-1-206.static.tpgi.com.au")
(3467463705 :join "Adlai" nil "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467463705 :quit "Adlai" "Remote closed the connection" "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467463720 :join "Adlai`" nil "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467463757 :nick "Adlai`" "Adlai" "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467463833 :privmsg "fusss" "in sbcl, is  it faster to :adjustable t + vector-push-extend, or (coerce (reverse collected-list) sequence-type)?" nil)
(3467463887 :join "harag" nil "n=Harag@196.2.113.79")
(3467463892 :quit "pr" "\"leaving\"" "n=pr@unaffiliated/pr")
(3467463917 :privmsg "fusss" "i was under the impression that vector-push-extend is faster, but they're just about the same for '(unsigned-byte 8) elements; doesn't matter whether I collect the elements one by one into a list and coerce that to a vector, or do everything as a vector right from the start." nil)
(3467463970 :privmsg "kuwabara" "fuss: Don't you add work for a later GC when you cons ?" nil)
(3467463972 :join "Axius" nil "n=ade@92.85.27.164")
(3467463973 :privmsg "pkhuong" "fusss: do the fill pointer bit yourself and keep a list of exponentially growing vectors, then blit it into a single vector of exactly the right size." nil)
(3467463985 :privmsg "fusss" "it's just one line of code, in 500, and it's the choke point were 40% of the run time is spent (another 50% goes to TCP/IP connection creation and tear down per function call, but I can remove that with thread pooling)" nil)
(3467464015 :join "morphling" nil "n=stefan@gssn-590d2b20.pool.mediaWays.net")
(3467464030 :privmsg "jsnell" "adjustable arrays are total crap in sbcl in general" nil)
(3467464046 :privmsg "fusss" "kuwabara: yes, consing incurs GC penalty, but for the next iteration of the test; that's why one run of 1M requests takes 5 seconds, and the other takes 50 ;-)" nil)
(3467464049 :privmsg "pkhuong" "For extra points, use a pool for the temporary vectors (and store them in a dx fixed length (e.g. 20ish entries) vector)." nil)
(3467464050 :privmsg "jsnell" "vector-push-extend is particularly crap" nil)
(3467464070 :privmsg "fusss" "pkhuong: acronymexpand-1 dx" nil)
(3467464075 :privmsg "pkhuong" "dynamic extent." nil)
(3467464112 :privmsg "jsnell" "what kind of data are you processing?" nil)
(3467464124 :privmsg "fusss" "pkhuong: I got that 20ish entries bit from arnesi:parse-csv-string as well, is that a magic number or something?" nil)
(3467464138 :privmsg "fusss" "jsnell: database protocol for Redis" nil)
(3467464161 :privmsg "fusss" "one line of control in ascii, followed by a variable length octet array" nil)
(3467464173 :privmsg "Xof" "it would be nice to make them less crap; what would it take?  MORE WIDETAGS?" nil)
(3467464174 :privmsg "jsnell" "ok. is there a \"typical\" length for one of these arrays?" nil)
(3467464188 :privmsg "jsnell" "Xof: and type system hacking" nil)
(3467464190 :privmsg "pkhuong" "If you start with buffers of ~1KB and double at each iteration, 20 entries is enough to fill a 32 bit address space." nil)
(3467464205 :privmsg "froydnj" "probably just making v-p-e not go through full make-array?" nil)
(3467464212 :join "acrid" nil "n=mckay@204.126.146.202")
(3467464214 :privmsg "harag" "how much memory is needed to recompile sbcl? my vps server kills off the compile" nil)
(3467464214 :privmsg "Xof" "I can do the type system hacking.  I can't magically make appear more widetag space" nil)
(3467464215 :privmsg "pkhuong" "Xof: or CSE." nil)
(3467464219 :privmsg "lisppaste" "Haplo_ pasted \"untitled\" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/90582" nil)
(3467464224 :privmsg "Xof" "pkhuong: do you mean LIH?" nil)
(3467464241 :privmsg "fatalnix1995" "huh" nil)
(3467464244 :quit "mrSpec" "Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)" "n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec")
(3467464245 :privmsg "fatalnix1995" "urxvt has embedded perl" nil)
(3467464249 :privmsg "Xof" "I can never remember how compilers work" nil)
(3467464251 :privmsg "fatalnix1995" "why not embedded lisp?" nil)
(3467464251 :privmsg "jsnell" "Xof, froydnj: the problem is that there's no way to express a \"non-simple but not displaced\" array" nil)
(3467464255 :privmsg "pkhuong" "Xof: right, more like loop invariants." nil)
(3467464261 :privmsg "Haplo_" "nyef: would this look appropriated ?" nil)
(3467464268 :join "mrSpec" nil "n=Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec")
(3467464281 :privmsg "pkhuong" "Xof: What's the problem with more tags?" nil)
(3467464281 :privmsg "fatalnix1995" "probably by parsing and converting to assembly" nil)
(3467464286 :privmsg "fatalnix1995" "thats the easy way" nil)
(3467464343 :privmsg "Xof" "oh, there's more space than I remember" nil)
(3467464359 :privmsg "Xof" "we have 7 spare tags on x86-64" nil)
(3467464360 :privmsg "froydnj" "jsnell: oh, you want to go all the way to inlining v-p-e?" nil)
(3467464366 :privmsg "pkhuong" "fusss: could also just be that I'm a confounding variable here." nil)
(3467464388 :privmsg "pkhuong" "Xof: I've got my mittens on one already (:" nil)
(3467464388 :privmsg "fusss" "pkhuong: no worries :-)" nil)
(3467464390 :privmsg "froydnj" "Xof: huh, I thought we had less than that too" nil)
(3467464401 :quit "Adlai" "Remote closed the connection" "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467464405 :privmsg "Xof" "pkhuong: people who don't commit stuff in a timely fashion may lose their widetags" nil)
(3467464431 :join "Adlai" nil "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467464431 :quit "kiuma" "\"Bye bye ppl\"" "n=kiuma@93-62-254-109.ip25.fastwebnet.it")
(3467464431 :privmsg "jsnell" "froydnj: no, but for v-p-e to be useful the basic accessors for adjustable arrays should not suck" nil)
(3467464441 :privmsg "pkhuong" "If you find some use for all of them, I'll just pun complex double floats ;)" nil)
(3467464464 :privmsg "Xof" "froydnj: who knows, maybe someone's been deleting code while we weren't watching" nil)
(3467464465 :privmsg "jsnell" "right now we can't usefully inline a aref or (setf aref) on a non-simple array" nil)
(3467464504 :privmsg "Xof" "whereas if it's a non-displaced array it should be just fetch-data-vector, grab cell?" nil)
(3467464525 :privmsg "jsnell" "right" nil)
(3467464587 :join "danlei" nil "n=user@82.113.106.145")
(3467464675 :quit "ejs" "\"This computer has gone to sleep\"" "n=eugen@250-46-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net")
(3467464701 :privmsg "Xof" "ok, there is a way to express non-simple but not displaced: (and array (not (satisfies array-displacement)))" nil)
(3467464705 :privmsg "Xof" "the rest is a SMOP" nil)
(3467464710 :privmsg "Fare" "meh, forgot to thank nikodemus, sydney and xof in my commit message." nil)
(3467464731 :privmsg "Xof" "that's (and array (not simple-array) (not (satisfies array-displacement)))" nil)
(3467464747 :privmsg "Xof" "and when I say \"SMOP\" I don't actually mean that" nil)
(3467464770 :privmsg "Fare" "is AI a SMOP?" nil)
(3467464773 :privmsg "jsnell" "yeah, ILTWYS\"S\"" nil)
(3467464788 :privmsg "Fare" "or is SMOP \"anything easier than AI\" ?" nil)
(3467464797 :quit "benny" "Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)" "n=benny@i577A1167.versanet.de")
(3467464821 :privmsg "Fare" "after the P=NP? challenge, the SMOP=AI? challenge!" nil)
(3467464833 :privmsg "jsnell" "\"step 1: teach python to do something useful with certain satisfies types\"" nil)
(3467464887 :privmsg "Xof" "we already do that" nil)
(3467464900 :privmsg "Xof" "in order to support keywordp" nil)
(3467464910 :privmsg "jsnell" "oh, really? cool" nil)
(3467464926 :privmsg "Xof" "this is not as hard as all that, at least the type system hacking" nil)
(3467464942 :privmsg "Xof" "I predict, having said that, that I will try to implement it and get confused because the last time I did anything in this area was 5 years ago" nil)
(3467464955 :privmsg "Xof" "step 1: teach python that t is not the same as :maybe" nil)
(3467464959 :privmsg "Xof" "step 2 is your step 1" nil)
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(3467465084 :privmsg "jsnell" "I OTOH would've said that the runtime and non-type-system compiler parts are really not all that hard ;-)" nil)
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(3467465118 :part "aburrido" nil "n=eldragon@84.79.67.254")
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(3467465169 :nick "Adlai`" "Adlai" "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467465170 :privmsg "Xof" "jsnell: well, obviously those bits are easier :)" nil)
(3467465187 :action "Xof" "doodles some more" nil)
(3467465279 :join "leo2007" nil "n=leo@soup.linux.pwf.cam.ac.uk")
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(3467465722 :privmsg "rahul" "Fare: I would say SMOP is anything easier than AI" nil)
(3467465759 :privmsg "rahul" "because AI is, by definition, not a simple matter, the first time through... and probably not even the second" nil)
(3467465774 :join "silenius" nil "n=jl@yian-ho03.nir.cronon.net")
(3467465787 :privmsg "rahul" "maybe we could say an SMOP is non-trivial to do the first time. AI is non-trivial to do the second time." nil)
(3467465797 :join "beauty" nil "n=beauty@83.231.45.206")
(3467465809 :quit "Adlai" "Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)" "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467465816 :privmsg "beauty" "evening" nil)
(3467465843 :join "Adlai" nil "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467465944 :privmsg "Fare" "beauty in #lisp? When I first tried Lisp, I thought I'd find beauty, but I mostly found a lot of ugly kluges." nil)
(3467465997 :quit "aerique" "\"...\"" "i=euqirea@xs2.xs4all.nl")
(3467466008 :privmsg "beauty" "ugly hacks?" nil)
(3467466009 :privmsg "dlowe" "reality is a lot of ugly kluges." nil)
(3467466029 :privmsg "madnificent" "Fare: are we your ugly kluges?" nil)
(3467466042 :privmsg "dlowe" "thus any program that deals with reality will mirror those kluges" nil)
(3467466043 :privmsg "dcrawford" "like government types:  worst, except for all the others" nil)
(3467466050 :quit "Adlai" "Remote closed the connection" "n=adlai@unaffiliated/adlai")
(3467466118 :action "madnificent" "hates that argument about governments.  Foolishly incorrect and yet people take it" nil)
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(3467466203 :privmsg "madnificent" "wb beach" nil)
(3467466206 :privmsg "madnificent" "wb beauty" nil)
(3467466215 :privmsg "madnificent" "apologies beach" nil)
(3467466217 :privmsg "beauty" "hi madnificent :))" nil)
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(3468325574 :privmsg "Xof" "does anyone have any spare time today to look at the sbcl HEAD windows build failure?" nil)
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(3468325630 :privmsg "nyef_" "The tools-for-build/grovel-target-whatever thing?" nil)
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(3468325703 :action "_deepfire" "ponders a powerful cpu/watt -effective machine for buildslavery purposes" nil)
(3468325714 :nick "nyef_" "nyef" "n=nyef@pool-71-161-71-17.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net")
(3468325742 :privmsg "_deepfire" "a win32 buildslave would be rather nice" nil)
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(3468325805 :privmsg "_deepfire" "are there organisations donating VMs to opensource projects?" nil)
(3468325806 :privmsg "Xof" "nyef: no, I think it's simpler than that: a header defines boolean, and so do we" nil)
(3468325810 :privmsg "nyef" "Yes." nil)
(3468325835 :privmsg "nyef" "But it's patched around in the runtime, so it's just the groveller that needs \"fixing\"." nil)
(3468325837 :join "yacin" nil "n=yacin@tyr.gtisc.gatech.edu")
(3468325847 :privmsg "nyef" "Alternately, perhaps we shouldn't define boolean?" nil)
(3468325858 :privmsg "Xof" "if someone can get me a plausible patch in the next couple of hours, I can release sbcl-1.0.33 today; if not, it won't happen until Wednesday" nil)
(3468325890 :privmsg "nyef" "I'm bringing up a build-capable win32 vm now." nil)
(3468325924 :privmsg "Xof" "thanks" nil)
(3468325932 :privmsg "Xof" "minimal patches preferred for now" nil)
(3468325938 :privmsg "Xof" "we should probably clean up our boolean act after 1.0.33" nil)
(3468325954 :privmsg "nyef" "Hrm. Okay, can't use this tree, it's got interrupt damage all over it." nil)
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(3468326523 :privmsg "_deepfire" "Hmm, looks like hitting C-c when the core is within WITHOUT-GCING isn't such a good idea in 1.0.32.14" nil)
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(3468326558 :privmsg "_deepfire" "Gets me into ldb on x86-32/linux." nil)
(3468326564 :privmsg "nyef" "Reliably?" nil)
(3468326567 :privmsg "_deepfire" "Yes.." nil)
(3468326580 :privmsg "_deepfire" "Shall I update?" nil)
(3468326618 :privmsg "_deepfire" "nyef, heavy lh-usb hammering is the context.." nil)
(3468326634 :privmsg "nyef" "Probably, especially given that we're due for a release either in a few hours or on Wednesday." nil)
(3468326653 :action "_deepfire" "obeys" nil)
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(3468326815 :privmsg "lisppaste" "_deepfire pasted \"for 1.0.32.14\" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91163" nil)
(3468326834 :privmsg "_deepfire" "..while it builds" nil)
(3468326838 :quit "grouzen" "Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)" "n=grouzen@91.214.124.2")
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(3468326875 :privmsg "nyef" "Okay, trying a win32 build again, this time without sb-thread enabled via c-t-f." nil)
(3468326940 :privmsg "nyef" "_deepfire: Hunh. You're entering the debugger, which pulls a backtrace, which conses, which runs out of memory because it can't GC." nil)
(3468326947 :privmsg "arabesca" "afternoon" nil)
(3468327012 :privmsg "nyef" "(Really, this is an argument against running your debugger in the same heap.)" nil)
(3468327043 :privmsg "nyef" "Why do you even have GC disabled?" nil)
(3468327055 :privmsg "_deepfire" "nyef, ioctl.." nil)
(3468327075 :privmsg "nyef" "What host platform?" nil)
(3468327081 :privmsg "nyef" "Oh, x86-32." nil)
(3468327081 :privmsg "_deepfire" "linux/x86-32" nil)
(3468327099 :privmsg "nyef" "Just bloody pin the objects if you're worried, don't lock out the GC." nil)
(3468327143 :quit "Soulman" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=kae@Gatekeeper.vizrt.com")
(3468327159 :privmsg "_deepfire" "The problem is that it needs to be realtime-ish -- if I send a read request to a USB device, but won't read it out soon after that, I lose." nil)
(3468327215 :privmsg "nyef" "Oh, you're worried about the device timing out over a sequence involving multiple requests?" nil)
(3468327255 :privmsg "_deepfire" "Basically, yes." nil)
(3468327256 :quit "demmeln" "Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)" "n=Adium@001cb3c457d3.dfn.mwn.de")
(3468327264 :privmsg "_deepfire" "Taking away GC lockout breaks it." nil)
(3468327280 :privmsg "nyef" "Okay, in that case, lock out interrupts as well?" nil)
(3468327307 :quit "plage" "Remote closed the connection" "n=user@serveur5.labri.fr")
(3468327319 :privmsg "nyef" "... There's some dependency here that I'm forgetting, I just know it." nil)
(3468327396 :privmsg "_deepfire" "Won't locking out interrupts take away the ability to C-c from the user?" nil)
(3468327432 :privmsg "_deepfire" "Or they are just queued until after they are reenabled?" nil)
(3468327443 :privmsg "nyef" "They're queued." nil)
(3468327454 :privmsg "_deepfire" "Thanks!" nil)
(3468327464 :privmsg "nyef" "It's like a CLI / STI pair in ASM. It just masks, and the interrupts are level-triggered." nil)
(3468327478 :privmsg "_deepfire" "So it's not a bug?" nil)
(3468327502 :privmsg "nyef" "It's user error, but there might be a bug that the error highlighted." nil)
(3468327512 :privmsg "nyef" "I'm going to have to think about it a bit." nil)
(3468327539 :quit "maus" "\"Leaving\"" "n=maus@222.253.99.233")
(3468327600 :privmsg "_deepfire" "On the good news, I got an ack from my boss to opensource the JTAG debugger I wrote." nil)
(3468327680 :privmsg "nyef" "Xof: Build failure reproduced, proceeding to testing a possible fix." nil)
(3468327849 :quit "rvirding" "\"ChatZilla 0.9.85 [Firefox 3.5.5/20091102152451]\"" "n=chatzill@192.165.65.245")
(3468327853 :quit "colin_" "Remote closed the connection" "n=colin@118-169-47-198.dynamic.hinet.net")
(3468328010 :privmsg "nyef" "First smoke test completed: grovel-headers compiled without incident." nil)
(3468328012 :join "bgs100" nil "n=ian@unaffiliated/bgs100")
(3468328017 :privmsg "nyef" "Waiting on full build." nil)
(3468328072 :privmsg "_deepfire" "Ok, with (without-interrupts (without-gcing it doesn't blow up on 32.38." nil)
(3468328077 :privmsg "lisppaste" "nyef pasted \"For Xof: The win32 build fix I'm trying\" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91167" nil)
(3468328085 :join "syamajala" nil "n=syamajal@c-98-217-241-153.hsd1.ma.comcast.net")
(3468328103 :privmsg "_deepfire" "But the delay after C-c takes action is about a second." nil)
(3468328124 :privmsg "nyef" "How long is your USB transaction sequence?" nil)
(3468328127 :quit "SIMONA-PC" "Client Quit" "n=SIMONA-P@92.27.0.110")
(3468328137 :privmsg "_deepfire" "Whereas the protected sections run in about less than a millisecond." nil)
(3468328138 :privmsg "nyef" "And you can explicitly poll for interrupts if you want." nil)
(3468328186 :privmsg "_deepfire" "Ok, it still breaks." nil)
(3468328219 :privmsg "_deepfire" "Further C-c interruptions were taking progressively more time, with the last taking ~5 sec" nil)
(3468328221 :privmsg "nyef" "How about without-interrupts but not without-gcing?" nil)
(3468328261 :privmsg "nyef" "I'm tempted to suggest \"don't do that then\" as a solution for your SIGINT woes." nil)
(3468328298 :privmsg "lisppaste" "_deepfire annotated #91163 \"untitled\" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/91163#1" nil)
(3468328351 :privmsg "nyef" "Something seems -odd- about that backtrace." nil)
(3468328412 :privmsg "_deepfire" "it's recurrent, for one" nil)
(3468328480 :privmsg "_deepfire" "Also, it appears that C-c events are sometimes (%30) missed." nil)
(3468328481 :privmsg "nyef" "I'd actually wonder if they're the same frame address..." nil)
(3468328530 :privmsg "nyef" "Oh, good. host-two already." nil)
(3468328589 :privmsg "nyef" "Ah, and an easy way to speed up compilation: Minimize the emacs window running the build." nil)
(3468328608 :join "snearch" nil "n=olaf@g225055198.adsl.alicedsl.de")
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(3468328730 :privmsg "Younder" "byef, and run compilation on a memory disk" nil)
(3468328732 :privmsg "_deepfire" "The progressive elongation of the time SBCL takes to react to C-c is present when I disable both of WI-GC and WI-IN" nil)
(3468328757 :privmsg "_deepfire" "(But then at some point the device barfs on me due to violated timeouts, so I cannot lead it to ldb)" nil)
(3468328793 :privmsg "_deepfire" "Hmm." nil)
(3468328815 :action "_deepfire" "looks at cffi:with-pointer-to-vector-data" nil)
(3468328821 :privmsg "nyef" "Younder: Having trouble with your #\\n key?" nil)
(3468328864 :privmsg "Younder" "nyef, yes sorry nyef, that is the second time" nil)
(3468328910 :privmsg "_deepfire" "Hmm, just a W-P-O, as expected." nil)
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(3468328948 :privmsg "_deepfire" "So why the progressive elongation? I assume it is a sign of a growing heap." nil)
(3468328967 :quit "snearch" "\"Ex-Chat\"" "n=olaf@g225055198.adsl.alicedsl.de")
(3468328993 :quit "ejs" "\"This computer has gone to sleep\"" "n=eugen@27-98-135-95.pool.ukrtel.net")
(3468328994 :privmsg "nyef" "At this point I'd consider asking on the list." nil)
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(3468329145 :privmsg "Younder" "look.. to speed up compilation run SBCL on a memory disk and redirect output to /dev/null.  Much of the time is spendt outputting irrelevant drivel" nil)
(3468329164 :join "snearch_" nil "n=olaf@g225055198.adsl.alicedsl.de")
(3468329199 :quit "varjag" "\"Ex-Chat\"" "n=eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no")
(3468329201 :privmsg "_deepfire" "Younder, if you were to to read the log, the output was actually a required component of testing the build itself." nil)
(3468329210 :privmsg "nyef" "Sure, except that I'm looking for build errors." nil)
(3468329215 :join "wakeup^" nil "n=wakeup@koln-5d814f71.pool.mediaWays.net")
(3468329217 :privmsg "wakeup^" "hiho" nil)
(3468329238 :privmsg "nyef" "So merely eliminating the realtime display update while still recording the output is sufficient." nil)
(3468329244 :privmsg "wakeup^" "how do I create a directory in common lisp, does not have to be portable, only work on linux/unix" nil)
(3468329247 :privmsg "wakeup^" "?" nil)
(3468329270 :privmsg "nyef" "And since this is a win32 build dumping to cygwin emacs on cygwin X, minimzing the emacs window provides a -huge- speedup, since it's not waiting for rendering time." nil)
(3468329275 :privmsg "Younder" "_deepfire, and if you encounter a problem output it. But not for every library" nil)
(3468329280 :privmsg "tic" "wakeup^, sb-posix:mkdir on sbcl." nil)
(3468329282 :privmsg "_deepfire" "I with I could produce a backtrace without disabled gc and interrupts, but the device won't let me." nil)
(3468329287 :quit "demmeln1" "\"Leaving.\"" "n=Adium@129.187.176.158")
(3468329300 :privmsg "stassats" "clhs e-d-e" nil)
(3468329311 :join "jtza8" nil "n=jtza8@iburst-41-213-65-18.iburst.co.za")
(3468329313 :privmsg "nyef" "Must be on target-2, getting a bunch of redefinition-with-defgeneric style-warnings." nil)
(3468329335 :privmsg "stassats" "i meant ensure-directory-exist" nil)
(3468329345 :privmsg "stassats" "specbot: wake up!" nil)
(3468329346 :privmsg "Xof" "nyef: sounds good" nil)
(3468329352 :privmsg "nyef" "Right, the bots disappeared over the irc server reboot. I'll deal with it." nil)
(3468329365 :privmsg "wakeup^" "tic: thx, any idea what it is in clisp?" nil)
(3468329373 :privmsg "Xof" "wakeup^: ensure-directories-exist is portable" nil)
(3468329373 :privmsg "stassats" "wakeup^: ensure-directory-exist" nil)
(3468329375 :quit "lisppaste" "Remote closed the connection" "n=lisppast@common-lisp.net")
(3468329390 :privmsg "wakeup^" "sounds cool :>" nil)
(3468329447 :privmsg "wakeup^" "ah" nil)
(3468329448 :privmsg "wakeup^" "wtf" nil)
(3468329460 :privmsg "stassats" "trailing \"/\" ?" nil)
(3468329466 :privmsg "wakeup^" "this is a perfectly fine function why dont I get this in google" nil)
(3468329467 :quit "thehcdreamer" nil "n=thehcdre@94.198.78.26")
(3468329478 :privmsg "nyef" "Xof: Okay, build done. Only failed contrib is sb-simple-streams, as usual. Anything in particular I should test, or is this \"good enough\"?" nil)
(3468329523 :join "akamaus" nil "n=maus@78.31.79.185")
(3468329534 :privmsg "Krystof" "that's good enough for me" nil)
(3468329537 :privmsg "Krystof" "thank you" nil)
(3468329545 :privmsg "Krystof" "would you like to commit it?" nil)
(3468329657 :join "metawilm" nil "n=user@e179149199.adsl.alicedsl.de")
(3468329688 :privmsg "jtza8" "I can't \"overload\" a generic function, right?" nil)
(3468329710 :privmsg "tic" "you can define methods on gfs" nil)
(3468329725 :privmsg "_deepfire" "jtza8, what do you want, precisely?" nil)
(3468329782 :privmsg "jtza8" "I'd like to define two methods with the same name on separate objects with differing arguments." nil)
(3468329826 :privmsg "jtza8" "Would I have to name them differently then?" nil)
(3468329828 :privmsg "nyef" "Krystof: Okay, prepping the commit now." nil)
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(3468329838 :privmsg "stassats" "jtza8: the number of required arguments should be the same" nil)
(3468329845 :privmsg "jtza8" "Ok" nil)
(3468329850 :privmsg "stassats" "and learn you some CLOS" nil)
(3468329858 :privmsg "jtza8" "Thought so, thanks." nil)
(3468329866 :privmsg "jtza8" "Yep" nil)
(3468329870 :privmsg "stassats" "minion: Keene?" nil)
(3468329872 :privmsg "hefner" "Nope, can't (or shouldn't attempt to) do it. Functions that do different things should have different names. One of the tradeoffs of subtle dynamic typing." nil)
(3468329889 :nick "legumbre_" "legumbre" "n=leo@r190-135-59-207.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy")
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(3468329941 :privmsg "Younder" "hefner, except methods pehaps?" nil)
(3468329943 :privmsg "nyef" "clhs e-d-e" nil)
(3468329944 :privmsg "specbot" "ENSURE-DIRECTORIES-EXIST: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_ensu_1.htm" nil)
(3468329954 :privmsg "nyef" "Right, that's working." nil)
(3468329977 :privmsg "nyef" "Krystof: committed." nil)
(3468330011 :privmsg "_deepfire" "jtza8, you can have different keyword arguments used by different methods." nil)
(3468330025 :privmsg "_deepfire" "jtza8, you can also have optional arguments" nil)
(3468330060 :privmsg "hefner" "Younder: if it isn't clear, I'm implying that methods on a generic function should do related things. Not the exact same thing, obviously, but it shouldn't be a random grab bag coincidentally related because they happened to have compatible lambda lists." nil)
(3468330099 :privmsg "Younder" "hefner, agreed" nil)
(3468330181 :privmsg "Younder" "hefner, like print or read, not parse-ardwark-file" nil)
(3468330258 :privmsg "jtza8" "_deepfire: Yep, thanks for being helpful. :)" nil)
(3468330352 :privmsg "Younder" "hefner, except it's print-object and there is no euivalent for read..." nil)
(3468330410 :privmsg "Younder" "equivalent" nil)
(3468330411 :privmsg "p_l" "jtza8: for different arguments you could probably define the gf so that it would have keyword or &rest arguments" nil)
(3468330439 :privmsg "p_l" "it's just that all methods on generic function must have the same signature" nil)
(3468330476 :privmsg "nyef" "And you can't dispatch on keyword argument types." nil)
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(3468330618 :privmsg "p_l" "nyef: well, I got an image where he wanted something like (method <object1> args-for-object1) and (method <object2> args-for-object2) :)" nil)
(3468330640 :privmsg "Younder" "Well the keywords are all in :keyword so you could" nil)
(3468330646 :privmsg "nyef" "Yeah, just figured it was worth mentioning." nil)
(3468330740 :privmsg "p_l" "jtza8: if you have problems transitioning to CLOS from \"typical\" object systems, like I had, for some reason I found that Haskell typeclasses are great learning tool" nil)
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(3468330858 :privmsg "Younder" "After a while CLOS seems to have got it right. The rest have got it wrong. I love the seperation of methods from classes." nil)
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(3468330957 :privmsg "jtza8" "Thanks p_l, I'll have a look at those." nil)
(3468330970 :join "nvoorhies" nil "n=nvoorhie@adsl-76-216-21-95.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net")
(3468330972 :privmsg "Younder" "makes things more 'friend'ly" nil)
(3468330982 :privmsg "jtza8" "Hehe" nil)
(3468331027 :privmsg "p_l" "I wonder if someone wrote a CLOS/MOP tool to check if a given type implements a \"protocol\" (as in CLIM protocols etc.)" nil)
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