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2017-06-02T03:13:03Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2017-06-02T03:13:18Z axion: Greetings, beach
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2017-06-02T03:44:49Z krator44: sbcl's 1.3.18
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2017-06-02T03:46:44Z jasom: pjb: two different versions of windows could have different values for that
2017-06-02T03:47:10Z jasom: pjb: so even calculating the value at compile time is insufficient since one might want to distribute binaries
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2017-06-02T04:11:28Z jasom: pjb: or even two different CPUs running the same version of windows
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2017-06-02T05:01:39Z axion: is the symbol ORW supposed to be locked to CL?
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2017-06-02T05:05:09Z beach: axion: What does it mean for a symbol to be "locked to CL"?
2017-06-02T05:05:32Z axion: I'm just unsure what is causing this in my codes suddenly: Lock on package COMMON-LISP violated when interning ORW while in package AMATH.
2017-06-02T05:06:15Z beach: It looks like you are trying to intern ORW into the CL package.
2017-06-02T05:06:53Z axion: Well that is odd indeed, with in-package preceding it.
2017-06-02T05:06:58Z axion: I'll investigate some more, thanks
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2017-06-02T05:30:11Z axion: This seems like an sbcl bug since I updated last week. I cannot reproduce on CCL or ECL
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2017-06-02T05:36:05Z beach: axion: I guess you could try to disable package locks to get around the problem
2017-06-02T05:36:32Z beach: axion: Oh, and perhaps CCL and ECL don't have package locks.  Or not by default anywah.
2017-06-02T05:36:37Z beach: anyway.
2017-06-02T05:36:57Z axion: Indeed. It seems that even the Quicklisp version of my software cannot load, which was added 2 weeks ago so must have worked then.
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2017-06-02T05:40:11Z beach: axion: Do you have the OPTIMIZE settings like I do (debug 3) (speed 0)?
2017-06-02T05:40:24Z beach: If so, you should be able to look at the stack when the error occurs.
2017-06-02T05:40:39Z beach: Then you will have an idea of what it is trying to do.
2017-06-02T05:41:50Z beach thinks SBCL should have those values by default.  Many people don't bother changing them, not realizing that the debug information could be improved if they did.
2017-06-02T05:41:59Z slyrus: yes!
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2017-06-02T06:04:26Z slyrus: what's really disturbing is code that runs with low debug/safety and high speed, but fails with low speed, high safety...
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2017-06-02T06:06:40Z axion: What is more disturbing is top-level optimize forms. They may traverse down the system hierarchy and taint dependency libraries.
2017-06-02T06:07:57Z slyrus: true
2017-06-02T06:08:49Z axion: slyrus: By the way, thank you for opticl
2017-06-02T06:08:59Z slyrus: you're welcome! glad you like it.
2017-06-02T06:09:22Z axion: I was the one that request cl-tga support a while ago...I don't really need it that bad, but for a while was the only thing preventing me from using it.
2017-06-02T06:10:10Z slyrus: ah, ok. that shouldn't be too hard, but I haven't gotten around to it.
2017-06-02T06:10:26Z slyrus: patches welcome :)
2017-06-02T06:10:56Z axion: Hehe I know how that is. My backlog is growing while I grow older.
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2017-06-02T06:18:01Z slyrus: heh. cl-tga has an optimize speed space decl it probably doesn't need :)
2017-06-02T06:24:38Z jackdaniel: beach: ECL has package locks
2017-06-02T06:24:57Z jackdaniel: defpackage takes :lock t, or there is protocol for manipulating them
2017-06-02T06:26:17Z jackdaniel: also I think that CL package must be locked anyway, even if implementation doesn't provide protocol for that to programmer
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2017-06-02T06:53:15Z slyrus: axion: does this work for you? https://github.com/slyrus/opticl/tree/tga-support
2017-06-02T06:53:25Z slyrus: if so, I'm happy to merge it. now TGA writing yet.
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2017-06-02T06:54:32Z axion: Oh nice. I will try in a few minutes.
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2017-06-02T06:55:52Z slyrus: s/now/no/
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2017-06-02T07:16:19Z axion: slyrus: It looks like I'm not going to have any time to test this properly until tomorrow. I will let you know though. Thanks a lot!
2017-06-02T07:23:43Z jdz: Whatever you do, please do not declare (SAFETY 0). Thank you!
2017-06-02T07:24:19Z jdz: It's very demoralising for me to have my lisp process crash just like C ones.
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2017-06-02T07:26:56Z varjag: slyrus: could you click a checkbox for me
2017-06-02T07:26:57Z varjag: https://github.com/sharplispers/cl-jpeg/issues/37
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2017-06-02T08:18:48Z _death: jasom: QueryPerformanceCounter is the one.. I made it as a constant following Common Lisp's, but you're right, it should possible to compute it at load-time.. I wonder if a symbol-macro may be good here
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2017-06-02T09:39:36Z John[Lisbeth]: Can you help me to build a krivine machine in lisp?
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2017-06-02T09:42:19Z John[Lisbeth]: apparently this is it written in scheme: https://github.com/extrasharp/K
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2017-06-02T09:45:09Z John[Lisbeth]: this is it in haskell https://github.com/616D696C/Evaluation-of-Lambda-Calculus-in-Haskell/blob/master/LambdaParser.hs
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2017-06-02T09:53:15Z John[Lisbeth]: YOu know what I think I can understand the haskell more or less
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2017-06-02T10:40:08Z mrottenkolber: _death: LOAD-TIME-VALUE ?
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2017-06-02T11:33:48Z _death: mrottenkolber: yes.. I'm thinking in case the value should be computed at load-time, I'd have the symbol macro expand to a function call, and that function will use load-time-value
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2017-06-02T11:42:45Z _death: this idiom could be turned into a macro.. but since it's a small library and it will be used once, may be overkill
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2017-06-02T11:53:49Z slyrus: varjag: how do I do that? add the Travis CI "service"?
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2017-06-02T11:56:16Z slyrus: varjag: it looks like it wants a user/token/domain to do that
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2017-06-02T12:19:10Z pjb: jasom: you're right, the system provides a run-time value.  And it is conceivable that it may change at run-time, either because of a sysctl or /sys modification, or because the lisp process was migrated to a different core with a different value.  INTERNAL-TIME-UNITS-PER-SECOND is defined as constant, so on systems where the actual value is defined at run-time, it will have to be set to the smallest possible period. (it is not
2017-06-02T12:19:10Z pjb: specified that it should be maximal by clhs).
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2017-06-02T13:12:12Z mrottenkolber: _death: why not just define a function that computes the value and then (let ((c (load-time-value (myfun)))) ...) ?
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2017-06-02T13:13:03Z mrottenkolber: or defparameter or whatever, don’t think it matters
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2017-06-02T14:45:33Z _death: mrottenkolber: the purpose is to define something akin to internal-time-units-per-second
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2017-06-02T16:59:57Z jasom: pjb: wrong it cannot change at runtime according to MS docs.
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2017-06-02T17:01:34Z jasom: pjb: and we are talking about _death's monotonic clock library, not internal-time
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2017-06-02T17:02:41Z jasom: _death: a symbol macro if you want to preserve source compatibility, a function otherwise
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2017-06-02T17:05:48Z _death: think there's no reason not to make it a symbol macro
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2017-06-02T17:10:41Z raynold: ahh it's a wonderful day
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2017-06-02T17:19:14Z pjb: jasom: run-time is when you boot the lisp image.
2017-06-02T17:19:30Z pjb: Each time you boot the same lisp image, you can get a different value, since it can be booted on different systems.
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2017-06-02T17:21:14Z pjb: Notice that it could still be a lisp constant if as you said, the system ensures that it cannot change after lisp image boot: an implentation can update the compiled code when constants are redefinde.
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2017-06-02T17:29:29Z _death: hmm, in that scenario load-time-value won't do
2017-06-02T17:30:57Z jasom: _death: correct it's not fixed a load-time
2017-06-02T17:32:14Z jasom: _death: uiop has hooks for running code when an image is loaded; you could use those and then require that images be saved through uiop
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2017-06-02T17:33:54Z _death: now a simple function seems like the better solution...
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2017-06-02T17:34:38Z jasom: _death: but caching the value becomes problematic if someone calls monotonic-time-units-per-second before save-lisp-and-die
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2017-06-02T17:34:56Z _death: jasom: but that's someone's own problem
2017-06-02T17:35:08Z jasom: _death: true
2017-06-02T17:36:47Z jasom: _death: perhaps provide a hook to null it out for that case (and even register that hook with uiop)
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2017-06-02T17:37:50Z _death: my thinking is that there should be no symbol macro, just a function to get the value.. so it won't create an expectation that the value is constant
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2017-06-02T17:42:03Z _death: calling QueryPerformanceFrequency every time shouldn't be a big deal anyway
2017-06-02T17:44:01Z _death: and if it is, the user can always cache it himself.. better not pretend to solve that famous Hard Problem ourselves
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2017-06-02T17:45:51Z _death: but now we may need to solve the other Hard Problem.. the function's name likely shouldn't resemble CL's constant variable
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2017-06-02T17:49:12Z _death: other than that objection the name seems good though..
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2017-06-02T18:18:07Z pseudo-sue: hey, does anyone here have any experience using nixos as a dev platform?
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2017-06-02T18:18:50Z pseudo-sue: I just started trying it out, and have run into some snags when it comes to linking against .so files.
2017-06-02T18:18:55Z pseudo-sue: libpcap, e.g.
2017-06-02T18:19:13Z pseudo-sue: so I'm wondering if there's a nice, painless way of getting sbcl to play nice with nixos.
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2017-06-02T18:26:27Z dlowe: pseudo-sue: there's an opportunity for hacks of fame and glory if you get it working
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2017-06-02T18:49:42Z jasom: _death: prepend get-
2017-06-02T18:49:46Z jasom drops mic
2017-06-02T18:50:07Z jasom: pseudo-sue: oh I have a 60% finished project for that
2017-06-02T18:51:00Z jasom: pseudo-sue: for quick-and-dirty development, install any shared libraries you need to your environment and set LD_LIBRARY_PATH to $HOME/.nix-profile/lib
2017-06-02T18:51:52Z jasom: pseudo-sue: for more nix-like packaging, you'll want to have a separate asdf configuration for each sbcl program, and manage the asdf libraries and .so dependencies through nix
2017-06-02T18:53:20Z jasom has a program that generates nix expressions for every library in quicklisp (only works with about 80% of quicklisp) that do the asdf management for you
2017-06-02T18:54:03Z jasom: sadly I don't seem to have published it and it's on my laptop which is at home and asleep...  ping me this weekend pseudo-sue and I'll see if I can find it
2017-06-02T18:54:23Z _death: jasom: heh, if I add get then I might as well change monotonic-now to get-monotonic-time
2017-06-02T18:55:17Z jasom: _death: hopefully it was obviously a joke; the simple adding of () around it should make it clear that it's distinct
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2017-06-02T18:59:11Z ryanwatkins: Hey guys, how do I find the .xinitrc that is creating by consing window managers in the guix system config?
2017-06-02T18:59:16Z ryanwatkins: oops wrong channel!
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2017-06-02T19:23:11Z _death: ok, pushed the change
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2017-06-02T23:50:45Z argoneus: hello
2017-06-02T23:51:01Z argoneus: I know if I do (cons 1 (cons 2 nil))) I'll get (1 . 2)
2017-06-02T23:51:53Z argoneus: but can I use a list as a first argument and append to it with this?
2017-06-02T23:53:44Z argoneus: hm, (cons '(1 2 3) 4)) doesn't work as I'd expect it to
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