2016-08-31T00:04:37Z raydeejay: even if the word "cool" wasn't used as a pun, the follow up by pierpa pointing at the other meaning certainly qualifies as punning
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2016-08-31T00:05:37Z raydeejay: but perhaps this is more off-topic than asking about other lisps :D
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2016-08-31T01:22:56Z rpg: Does anyone still use redshank for editing lisp, or is it comprehensively dead?
2016-08-31T01:24:03Z cromachina: that's a funny way to spell emacs
2016-08-31T01:24:19Z Xach: cromachina: it is an emacs lisp package
2016-08-31T01:24:30Z Xach: rpg: I always meant to try it, but never did.
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2016-08-31T01:25:02Z rpg: Xach: Me, too. I was just looking at the github repo, and it's been dormant since 2012.
2016-08-31T01:25:39Z cromachina: oh!
2016-08-31T01:26:20Z rpg: It does some templating, some that's like some templates I already have.
2016-08-31T01:28:13Z rpg: I figured it might be bit-rotted. I'm interested in trying it, but think I should probably resist the temptation, and spend the available time on ASDF chores....
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2016-08-31T01:34:28Z raydeejay: rpg: http://www.foldr.org/~michaelw/emacs/redshank/ says tested with emacs 24
2016-08-31T01:34:31Z Fare: rpg: hi. Still here?
2016-08-31T01:35:00Z rpg: Fare: Just barely -- being called away, but resisting....
2016-08-31T01:35:24Z Fare: rpg: I took the liberty of committing stuff as 3.1.7.8 -- I hope you don't object to what I put in, or to my putting it without review
2016-08-31T01:35:25Z rpg: raydeejay: I looked at the git repo I was pointed at, and it listed the last commit in 2012.
2016-08-31T01:35:48Z rpg: Fare: I pulled the update. I'll check again. I don't mind having README.md, but I can't maintain it myself.
2016-08-31T01:35:49Z raydeejay: the last commit in there says 2012 too
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2016-08-31T01:36:09Z Fare: rpg: I understand -- far from me to try to impose more chores upon you
2016-08-31T01:36:16Z rpg: Fare: What did you think about the new condition class? Also, I put it in utility.lisp -- is that the right place for conditions in uiop?
2016-08-31T01:36:58Z Fare: rpg: I only resurrected the parts that were wholly off-topic of the webpage & manual, and prominently linked to these other two documents (and moved a few things there) where they are relevant.
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2016-08-31T01:37:16Z rpg: Fare: Thanks! That's great.
2016-08-31T01:37:41Z rpg: raydeejay: I figure paredit and other bits are likely to have changed under it.
2016-08-31T01:37:48Z rpg could be wrong
2016-08-31T01:37:49Z Fare: rpg: where is the definition? Is it in master or a branch?
2016-08-31T01:38:15Z rpg: It's in a branch. Hang on and I will make sure it's available (previously I just put it into emails, since I didn't finish getting it used.
2016-08-31T01:39:06Z rpg: It's in my personal copy of the repo on github, if you'd like to just have a peek.
2016-08-31T01:39:19Z Fare: rpg: it doesn't feel right to me to put too many metadata in the code that has to be manually maintained in synch with the code
2016-08-31T01:39:28Z Fare: URL ?
2016-08-31T01:40:21Z Fare finds https://github.com/rpgoldman/asdf/tree/unsupported-functionality
2016-08-31T01:41:30Z Fare: I would remove any slots but functionality
2016-08-31T01:42:49Z rpg: The only other slots are the format control and format args.
2016-08-31T01:43:06Z rpg: Dang. sorry.  Insistent request for my leaving they keyboard.
2016-08-31T01:43:48Z rpg: So the idea is that the functionality is a specified slot, and the programmer can add an optional explanation (e.g., "this function is not supported on clisp.")
2016-08-31T01:44:08Z rpg: Having functionality is just an easy hook for me to check in the asdf tests.
2016-08-31T01:44:17Z rpg: Uh-oh... really need to go.  TTYL.
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2016-08-31T03:49:43Z mordocai: I'm using sly and mcclim and looking at a backtrace i'm getting to https://github.com/robert-strandh/McCLIM/blob/master/Extensions/fonts/xrender-fonts.lisp#L451. I'm looking for the values of face family and font at the time of the backtrace. I added (format t "~s~%~s~%~s~%" face family size) right above it and that worked but what other (hopefully better) tools could show me the same info?
2016-08-31T03:50:01Z mordocai: The sly inspector does not seem to show those locals
2016-08-31T03:50:07Z mordocai: (in the backtrace view)
2016-08-31T03:51:19Z mordocai: I did however, just find the text-style argument in the inspector so there's my answer. Still curious about other ways though
2016-08-31T03:51:51Z jackdaniel: you may declaim (optimize (debug 3)), this could improve backtraces a little
2016-08-31T03:52:07Z jackdaniel: I have it in my .{put-your-lisp-here}rc
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2016-08-31T05:13:20Z muyinliu: I wrap GraphicsMagickWand with CFFI. It works fine in Mac OS X 10.10.5 and CentOS 32bit systems, but crash every time in CentOS 64bit system. Any suggestions? ith C program, there is nothing wrong in libGraphicsMagickWand.so
2016-08-31T05:14:08Z muyinliu: I wrap GraphicsMagickWand with CFFI. It works fine in Mac OS X 10.10.5 and CentOS 32bit systems, but crash every time in CentOS 64bit system. Any suggestions? With C program tests, I find out there is nothing wrong in libGraphicsMagickWand.so
2016-08-31T05:14:43Z H4ns: you need to be way more specific how it is crashing and also show your code.
2016-08-31T05:15:06Z H4ns: and even then, you may not find anyone able to help :)
2016-08-31T05:15:25Z muyinliu: Can CFFI work fine in Linux 64bit systems?
2016-08-31T05:15:30Z H4ns: certainly
2016-08-31T05:15:52Z H4ns: i would say 64bit linux is the platform that cffi is used most on.
2016-08-31T05:16:19Z muyinliu: OK. I will push cl-graphicsmagick to GitHub. wait a second.
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2016-08-31T05:21:55Z muyinliu: :H4ns Please check https://github.com/muyinliu/cl-graphicsmagick
2016-08-31T05:22:39Z H4ns: sorry, i don't have any interest in that, i was just mentioning that if you want any help, you need to provide specific information.
2016-08-31T05:22:47Z H4ns: "it does not work" is not specific enough.
2016-08-31T05:22:52Z Bike: it'll be faster if you just explain how it crashed, rather than wait on people to install your thing
2016-08-31T05:23:12Z muyinliu: :Bike wait a second.
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2016-08-31T05:27:26Z muyinliu: Pasted to http://pasteall.org/77040
2016-08-31T05:31:35Z pillton: Aww man. So much CFFI.
2016-08-31T05:31:53Z Bike: oh, geez, that looks really annoying to debug.
2016-08-31T05:31:56Z pillton is getting flashbacks.
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2016-08-31T05:36:41Z Bike: yeah i got no idea. if you can't get any help here you could maybe ask #sbcl how to use ldb
2016-08-31T05:40:34Z pillton: muyinliu: Did you initialize the library? In ImageMagick you have to call InitializeMagick.
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2016-08-31T05:41:44Z muyinliu: pillton: on Mac OS X and Cent OS 5.8 Final 32bit, it's not necessary to InitializeMagick...
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2016-08-31T05:42:12Z pillton: Is the documentation correct?
2016-08-31T05:42:15Z pillton: :)
2016-08-31T05:43:07Z muyinliu: And InitializeMagick is called by GraphicsMagickWand when NewMagickWand.
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2016-08-31T05:44:14Z pillton: What is *W* bound to?
2016-08-31T05:44:40Z pillton: i.e. Did %NewMagickWand return something valid?
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2016-08-31T05:45:44Z Bike: i googled a bit and the imagemagick api examples call MagickWandGenesis(void) before NewMagickWand?
2016-08-31T05:45:51Z muyinliu: pillton: *w* is bound to a CFFI foreign-pointer
2016-08-31T05:46:36Z pillton: I gathered that from the code. Is it a null pointer?
2016-08-31T05:46:38Z muyinliu: pillton: %NewMagickWand return a CFFI foreign-pointer
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2016-08-31T05:47:18Z muyinliu: pillton: not a null pointer.
2016-08-31T05:49:09Z muyinliu: :Bike MagickWandGenesis is also NOT export, so I think it's NOT necessary to call it.
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2016-08-31T05:50:02Z Bike: are you sure? it's listed in the api http://www.imagemagick.org/api/magick-wand.php#MagickWandGenesis
2016-08-31T05:50:06Z Bike: and i mean, might as well give it a shot
2016-08-31T05:50:47Z Bike: not sure what you mean by "export[ed]", it's C
2016-08-31T05:50:51Z otwieracz: Does any of you heard something about EINTR problems with usocket & mac os x?
2016-08-31T05:51:31Z muyinliu: Bike: Please look at http://www.graphicsmagick.org/wand/magick_wand.html, there is no MagickWandGenesis. GraphicsMagick is a little different from ImageMagick.
2016-08-31T05:52:06Z otwieracz: When in lparallel, I am getting number of EINTR conditions from cl-neo4j->drakma->usocket. The issue is already somehow known for drakma, but seems not resolved: https://github.com/edicl/drakma/issues/59
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2016-08-31T05:53:10Z Bike: my mistake. the examples on this website call InitializeMagick first instead, like pillton said.
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2016-08-31T05:59:36Z H4ns: otwieracz: as discussed, we consider this to be a usocket, not a drakma bug.  did you follow up in the usocket repository?
2016-08-31T06:05:35Z ZombieChicken: Anyone aware of any projects that are or have been that tried to replace a *nix userland (emacs doesn't count)?
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2016-08-31T06:07:26Z jackdaniel: DE's like xfce4 or gnome count?
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2016-08-31T06:07:50Z ZombieChicken: No
2016-08-31T06:07:58Z ZombieChicken: I'm thinking command-line
2016-08-31T06:08:53Z jackdaniel: plan9 maybe
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2016-08-31T06:09:48Z H4ns: ZombieChicken: i tried, but i did not find enough time to complete it.
2016-08-31T06:10:04Z Bike: busybox, this thing? http://heirloom.sourceforge.net/tools.html
2016-08-31T06:10:33Z H4ns: ZombieChicken: i got that far: https://plus.google.com/+HansH%C3%BCbner/posts/2LDwW4xzaJf
2016-08-31T06:10:34Z jackdaniel: Bike: but it's basically *nix userland lite, isn't it?
2016-08-31T06:10:55Z Bike: yeah? maybe i misunderstood "replace"
2016-08-31T06:10:57Z H4ns: i think the idea is to replace init/systemd and anything that follows with a lisp.
2016-08-31T06:10:58Z otwieracz: H4ns: To be honest, I've found no related issue https://github.com/usocket/usocket/issues?utf8=%E2%9C%93&q=eintr
2016-08-31T06:11:06Z ZombieChicken: Sorry, my head is in three places at once, but I was thinking of something in Lisp. I'm familiar with some of the alternatives (like busybox and I think some of the BSD userlands are portable)
2016-08-31T06:11:09Z H4ns: otwieracz: then maybe it is time to open one.
2016-08-31T06:11:53Z ZombieChicken: Just looking for a (hopefully semisimple) project to work on since everything else I'm looking at is beyond my comfort level
2016-08-31T06:12:16Z otwieracz: H4ns: Yes, I wast just looking if this is not already solved.
2016-08-31T06:12:28Z jackdaniel: ZombieChicken: maybe not command-line, but there is https://github.com/gas2serra/mcclim-desktop/ with some nice pointers
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2016-08-31T06:12:53Z H4ns: otwieracz: it'd be great if you open an issue in usocket so that there is a chance for someone to finally solve it.
2016-08-31T06:12:53Z ZombieChicken: jackdaniel: ty. I'll take a look at it
2016-08-31T06:13:19Z jackdaniel: you could add 'climsole' to it ;-)
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2016-08-31T06:23:53Z ZombieChicken: climsole?
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2016-08-31T06:27:23Z jackdaniel: i just made the name
2016-08-31T06:29:16Z jackdaniel: console for clim - terminal like clim-listener but more like terminal
2016-08-31T06:29:39Z jackdaniel: that sounded awkward :)
2016-08-31T06:30:02Z Bike: sounds like camisole.
2016-08-31T06:30:18Z ZombieChicken: Or clam soul
2016-08-31T06:30:37Z Bike: clams don't have souls, so that's ok
2016-08-31T06:30:47Z jackdaniel: heh
2016-08-31T06:30:48Z ZombieChicken: Bike: You're just plain heartless
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2016-08-31T06:31:34Z Bike: i have like twice as many atria as a clam
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2016-08-31T06:33:33Z JuanDaugherty: soul, spirit, zombie, oh my
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2016-08-31T06:36:45Z JuanDaugherty: what was that thing where that guy got here, yesterday i think, and said he was the real CLIM maintainer?
2016-08-31T06:36:57Z JuanDaugherty: *got on here
2016-08-31T06:37:04Z Bike: gabriel something
2016-08-31T06:37:22Z Bike: https://github.com/gabriel-laddel/clim
2016-08-31T06:37:32Z pillton: Has there been imposter CLIM maintainers?
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2016-08-31T06:38:40Z Bike: it's not like that, he's forking
2016-08-31T06:38:48Z jackdaniel: oh my, I'm pretty famous given the README. Gabriel was disappointed with some actions of mine I'm afraid
2016-08-31T06:39:01Z JuanDaugherty: i c, read and jumped to what seems to be the proper conclusion
2016-08-31T06:39:02Z Bike: i think he called you a sheep
2016-08-31T06:39:14Z JuanDaugherty: and not in a good way
2016-08-31T06:39:30Z jackdaniel: oh, sheeps are pretty nice animals
2016-08-31T06:39:43Z JuanDaugherty: not like ba ba black but sheeple
2016-08-31T06:40:08Z jackdaniel: I have some nice cotton clothes – my favourites tbh
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2016-08-31T06:42:02Z jackdaniel: :)
2016-08-31T06:42:55Z jackdaniel: long story short I think he changed his mind, when I clearly stated in last blog post, that we are focused on CLX backend at the moment
2016-08-31T06:43:55Z JuanDaugherty: " ... I could have had translated the CLIM
2016-08-31T06:43:55Z JuanDaugherty: specifiction to CLIM by now " can't tell if that's a typo or not
2016-08-31T06:44:12Z JuanDaugherty: s/spec/" spec/
2016-08-31T06:44:35Z JuanDaugherty: oh the line feed was carried
2016-08-31T06:45:18Z JuanDaugherty: but 90% or better it is, didn't read closely
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2016-08-31T06:46:43Z JuanDaugherty: the other reading is that the spec is shite
2016-08-31T06:47:16Z jackdaniel: it's quite complicated and it's quality isn't the same as CLHS's, but it's not that bad
2016-08-31T06:47:27Z jackdaniel: but it's not a good learning material – that's for sure
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2016-08-31T06:52:42Z JuanDaugherty notes CLIM may be available for people use by say '20
2016-08-31T06:53:34Z jackdaniel: you mean 2020? hm, maybe, but it's pretty usable already
2016-08-31T06:53:59Z JuanDaugherty: with what backend?
2016-08-31T06:54:08Z jackdaniel: with clx
2016-08-31T06:54:17Z JuanDaugherty: ah, OK will check it out
2016-08-31T06:54:34Z jackdaniel: it has some warts, but for normal use it's perfectly viable option
2016-08-31T06:54:43Z jackdaniel: and we are intensively working on fixing these warts :)
2016-08-31T06:54:48Z JuanDaugherty: i mostly want to (and am) using cl for server and do gui with other stuff but still
2016-08-31T06:55:14Z JuanDaugherty: ty, that's good to know
2016-08-31T06:55:30Z jackdaniel: I've listed other GUI alternatives on the website: https://common-lisp.net/project/mcclim/involve
2016-08-31T06:56:11Z JuanDaugherty: well for religious reasons I prefer smalltalk, and for practical ones a web browser
2016-08-31T06:56:25Z jackdaniel: web frameworks are listed too
2016-08-31T06:57:06Z JuanDaugherty: yeah so HT and web stuff would be an option if i had to have gui in lisp
2016-08-31T06:57:18Z jackdaniel: HT?
2016-08-31T06:57:26Z JuanDaugherty: hunchentoot
2016-08-31T06:57:35Z jackdaniel: ah
2016-08-31T06:58:14Z jackdaniel: yes, I made my bechelor degree project with hunchentoot as user interface
2016-08-31T06:58:59Z JuanDaugherty: i'm using it with angular
2016-08-31T06:59:24Z jackdaniel: bachelor°
2016-08-31T07:00:46Z gko: In https://common-lisp.net/project/mcclim/involve, it's written for LispWorks: "CLIM – another alternative CLIM II implementation for LispWorks. It is proprietary and "provided primarily to support legacy applications" -> does it mean it shouldn't be used for anything new and CAPI should be used instead?
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2016-08-31T07:01:52Z jackdaniel: that's how I understand it
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2016-08-31T07:03:21Z gko: Looks like it...
2016-08-31T07:03:45Z jackdaniel: I've heard many good things about CAPI, no wonder LispWorks pushes to use their new thing
2016-08-31T07:04:04Z jackdaniel: s/new/"new"/, I don't know how old is CAPI actually
2016-08-31T07:04:08Z jackdaniel: newer°
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2016-08-31T07:05:51Z gko: But is CLIM still worth it for new applications?
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2016-08-31T07:06:08Z jackdaniel: many people certainly believe so
2016-08-31T07:06:26Z jackdaniel: (me included ;)
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2016-08-31T07:07:14Z jackdaniel: and, to answer your question from another perspective: CL doesn't have FOSS native toolkit (with exception of web frameworks)
2016-08-31T07:07:40Z jackdaniel: but McCLIM
2016-08-31T07:08:03Z jackdaniel: and clim2, but it isn't ported to other CL's /yet/
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2016-08-31T07:17:46Z gko: OK, I see..
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2016-08-31T08:28:56Z Ainieco: hello
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2016-08-31T08:29:54Z Ainieco: what the point of oop in functional PL like CL? can't you just create record/struct/whatever and pass it around to functions
2016-08-31T08:29:58Z Ainieco: sine you still have to do it with clos?
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2016-08-31T08:31:37Z jackdaniel: Ainieco: common lisp isn't functional programming language, it's multiparadigm
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2016-08-31T08:32:30Z jackdaniel: and oop is the most widely adopted programming paradigm at the moment (however some projects are written with FP in mind)
2016-08-31T08:32:49Z Ainieco: jackdaniel: okay, but what the point of clos if you can create struct and pass it around to functions like an object in clos?
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2016-08-31T08:33:25Z jackdaniel: Ainieco: CLOS is more about generic functions than actual objects in my understanding
2016-08-31T08:34:02Z jackdaniel: generic function may specialize on it's arguments and depending on it's arguments different code is used
2016-08-31T08:34:19Z jackdaniel: polimorphism (but not like C++'s, where methods "belong" to objects)
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2016-08-31T08:35:06Z jackdaniel: also you have various clever constructs, like specializations, which are called "after" the main method, "before" or "around", method combinations, it's a big topic I'm not very fluent myself
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2016-08-31T08:36:03Z jackdaniel: additionally you have Meta-Object Protocol, which gives you possibility to customize CLOS into something better suited to your task at hand (i.e you may control, how the slots - class members - are stored in the memory)
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2016-08-31T08:37:14Z Ainieco: ahh, right, before/after/around and MOP
2016-08-31T08:37:32Z Ainieco: and polymorphism
2016-08-31T08:37:38Z Ainieco: jackdaniel: thanks!
2016-08-31T08:38:08Z jackdaniel: a good example of this is elephant, which stores things in a database transparently (so you work only on CLOS, but in fact it's baked by a database)
2016-08-31T08:38:11Z jackdaniel: sure :)
2016-08-31T08:38:51Z jackdaniel: (elephant is a library, I'm not sure if it's maintained)
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2016-08-31T08:44:16Z dim: about CLOS read http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3243735416407529@naggum.no.html
2016-08-31T08:44:24Z dim: oh he's gone already
2016-08-31T08:44:57Z dim: anyway jackdaniel if you didn't read that article/rant from Naggum it's a very good read and shows how OOP in general and CLOS are quite different beasts
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2016-08-31T08:46:36Z jackdaniel: I did read it
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2016-08-31T08:47:14Z dim: yeah I should have guessed
2016-08-31T08:47:18Z jackdaniel: :)
2016-08-31T08:47:39Z dim: it's one of my top-3 rants from Erik
2016-08-31T08:48:06Z dim: Perl and XML are the 2 other ones
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2016-08-31T08:50:23Z jackdaniel: I've read these two as well – he was pretty convinced about his opinions – no doubt here ;)
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2016-08-31T09:02:39Z dim: jackdaniel: I like opinionated people when they are lucid enough to remember it's only that, an opinion
2016-08-31T09:03:16Z z0d: dim: link to the other 2?
2016-08-31T09:03:53Z loke: Doesn't Xach have a collection of the rants on his site?
2016-08-31T09:05:17Z dim: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3163193555464012@naggum.no.html
2016-08-31T09:05:20Z dim: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3250033735497397@naggum.no.html
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2016-08-31T09:11:37Z z0d: if he has that opinion of Perl, what would he think about PHP?
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2016-08-31T09:20:24Z jackdaniel: or javascript? ^_^
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2016-08-31T09:24:59Z dim: more interestingly, did he ever comment on on haskell?
2016-08-31T09:29:17Z loke: dim: I don't think Haskell was that popular then.
2016-08-31T09:29:29Z dim: was CL popular then?
2016-08-31T09:29:58Z loke: dim: I think CL was at its lowest point by then.
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2016-08-31T09:55:37Z pipping: Xach: btw, since we last spoke about mkcl i've been able to form an opinion of my own. first mistake that i made was filing bugs on gitlab.common-lisp.org which for mkcl is only a mirror of the github repo. the author has actually been very responsive to feedback and fixed all the bugs I've reported so far #happy-as-a-clam
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2016-08-31T11:38:42Z frgo: Hello - quick questrion for the gurus here: I have: https://gist.github.com/dg1sbg/01d4fd515947a79e7b91a4fb8f635c4f . I can't get this macro to work the way I want ... I know I have a problem with the eql specifier ... Any ideas how to get the eql specier out the the gensym'ed variable?
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2016-08-31T11:44:43Z pareidolia: frgo: You can't do the symbol-value thing
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2016-08-31T11:44:59Z Grue``: put comma outside of ,(symbol-value ) ?
2016-08-31T11:45:11Z myrkraverk: And since I blogged about Lisp: http://www.myrkraverk.com/blog/2016/08/postgresql-load-json-with-lisp-and-postmodern/
2016-08-31T11:45:24Z splittist: frgo: I'm not a guru, so I'd flail around trying extra commas (a la Grue)
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2016-08-31T11:46:24Z frgo: pareidolia: I know I can't do this. I can't seen to get :char here as a result of an "operation"...
2016-08-31T11:46:56Z pareidolia: frgo: Why are you assiging values to keyword symbols?
2016-08-31T11:47:21Z Grue``: you need to generate what you put after (eql *) during macroexpanding, then generate the code
2016-08-31T11:47:25Z pareidolia: What do you want to EQL on
2016-08-31T11:48:01Z Grue``: the fact that your (defmethod) is within a (let) is a code smell by itself, since it should be top-level form
2016-08-31T11:48:07Z frgo: pareidolia: It's a simple approach for "I don't know the correct way so let'sn try something".
2016-08-31T11:48:25Z pareidolia: What is (symbol-value ,lisp-type-kw-g) supposed to evaluate to
2016-08-31T11:49:10Z pareidolia: An EQL specification is just that, a specification, not an expression that will be evaluated
2016-08-31T11:49:39Z frgo: I want to have argument type-specifier to be a string, like "char", and I want the eql specifier to be (eql :char) ...
2016-08-31T11:50:02Z frgo: Grue``: The let is ok.
2016-08-31T11:50:18Z pareidolia: So why assign string values to variables named by keyword symbols
2016-08-31T11:50:19Z Grue``: no, why should it be there? in the expanded code?
2016-08-31T11:50:44Z frgo: Grue``: Ah! Is ee what you mean.
2016-08-31T11:50:46Z Grue``: it should expand to a single (defmethod)
2016-08-31T11:52:26Z frgo: Grue``: Nice spot - thx!
2016-08-31T11:52:46Z frgo: Case closed. Thanks a bunch!
2016-08-31T11:53:35Z pareidolia: frgo: So you want the (symbol-value ..) evaluated at macro-expansion time?
2016-08-31T11:55:06Z frgo: What I want is: https://gist.github.com/dg1sbg/01d4fd515947a79e7b91a4fb8f635c4f (see "CORRECT VERSION")
2016-08-31T11:55:42Z Grue``: i had something like that in mind as well
2016-08-31T11:56:25Z pareidolia: frgo: You told me that you wanted to EQL to a string, that is not true
2016-08-31T11:56:32Z pareidolia: You are EQLing on a keyword
2016-08-31T11:56:58Z Grue``: pareidolia: well, obviously you can't eql a string
2016-08-31T11:57:32Z pareidolia: Well, that's the flailing thing
2016-08-31T11:57:39Z frgo: I told you that I have a param, this being a string, that I wanted to be turned into a keyword on which wanteed to dispatch on.
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2016-08-31T11:57:55Z pareidolia: Must have missed that
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2016-08-31T11:58:37Z frgo: Anyway - Thx for taking the effort to look into this.!
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2016-08-31T12:50:05Z pareidolia: Pinch me if I'm dreaming. I thought Paredit was supposed to interface with SLIME to detect whether a symbol is a macro and adjust intentation accordingly?
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2016-08-31T12:55:15Z Xach: pareidolia: paredit does not manage indentation, only parentheses
2016-08-31T12:55:23Z cromachina: i believe slime mode does that already
2016-08-31T12:55:25Z Xach: pareidolia: slime informs emacs regarding indentation
2016-08-31T12:56:19Z pareidolia: Hmmm. I have the [mypackage sbcl] Slime minor mode in my buffer, but no dice
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2016-08-31T13:07:34Z Xach: pareidolia: what did you expect, and what happened instead?
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2016-08-31T13:12:29Z pareidolia: If I define a macro and C-c C-c it from my buffer, and I then use the macro it gets highlighted and formatted as if it were a function call
2016-08-31T13:12:51Z pareidolia: Something works though, my calls to alexandria:with-gensyms are recognized
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2016-08-31T13:13:50Z malice`: pareidolia: pardon me, what's the difference between function call and macro call formatting?
2016-08-31T13:14:07Z malice`: If you mean treating code as if it was "body", then I believe that using &body instead of &rest works
2016-08-31T13:14:37Z pareidolia: Yes, that must be it :)
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2016-08-31T13:15:05Z malice`: glad to help
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2016-08-31T13:15:31Z pareidolia: Yep, I get my 2 spaces of indent now :)
2016-08-31T13:15:35Z pareidolia: Thanks!
2016-08-31T13:15:39Z malice`: np
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2016-08-31T13:39:14Z drmeister: frgo: are you online?
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2016-08-31T13:41:28Z drmeister: Regarding your question - we could provide a list of mem-ref accessors that are available from c++ so there would be no need to intern symbols at macro expansion time.
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2016-08-31T14:08:28Z warweasle: Do you think we should invite Conrad Barski (Land of Lisp) to the next year's game conference?
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2016-08-31T14:15:45Z Fade: yes
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2016-08-31T14:16:24Z Fade: maybe he'll sing the LoL themesong. :)
2016-08-31T14:18:06Z warweasle: Fade: That would be awesome.
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2016-08-31T14:24:42Z Xach: I think he moved on from Lisp?
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2016-08-31T14:25:58Z warweasle: Xach: Awww...
2016-08-31T14:26:06Z warweasle: Xach: Scheme?
2016-08-31T14:26:31Z Xach: twitter says Ethereum & Clojure developer based in Evanston/Chicago
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2016-08-31T14:28:44Z splittist googles Ethereum, is none the wiser: Blockchain. App. Platform.
2016-08-31T14:29:58Z H4ns: splittist: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4APcgsRdW6w
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2016-08-31T14:32:17Z pareidolia: wtf
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2016-08-31T15:01:12Z warweasle: Is there a way to make a cffi sharable byte vector look like a 2D single-float array?
2016-08-31T15:01:43Z warweasle: I would like to have an array of an array of matrices.
2016-08-31T15:02:52Z warweasle: It's so I can pass an array of floats to an opengl shader.
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2016-08-31T15:47:39Z |3b|: warweasle: you might try static-vectors, which lets you pass lisp arrays to cffi (but doesn't help for things like mapped GL buffers where you need to use a specific foreign pointer)
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2016-08-31T15:52:00Z warweasle: |3b|: Thanks. I was hoping to treat them like native 2D arrays. Mostly for pretty printing and access. I can just use cffi:mem-aref.
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2016-08-31T16:10:59Z malice`: I've got a list like '("a" "b" "c"). I'd like to merge it with "." in between, so that (merge-list "." '("a" "b" "c")) would result in "a.b.c". Is there some easy way to do it?
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2016-08-31T16:14:18Z malice`: got it!
2016-08-31T16:14:43Z malice`: (format t "~{~A~^.~}" '("a" "b" "c"))
2016-08-31T16:14:56Z jackdaniel: format nil°
2016-08-31T16:16:01Z malice`: well, true
2016-08-31T16:16:06Z malice`: t means "testing purposes"
2016-08-31T16:16:08Z malice`: :P
2016-08-31T16:16:30Z jackdaniel: :)
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2016-08-31T16:17:24Z akkad notes how many vim users there are at a clojure shop
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2016-08-31T16:40:56Z rpg: malice`: I forget, but also CL-PPCRE might have the equivalent of perl's "join," which would also do that.
2016-08-31T16:42:19Z PosterdatiMobile: is anyone using gsll on ecl for OpenBSD i386, I cannot load the system with quicklisp...
2016-08-31T16:42:58Z PosterdatiMobile: it complains for #+fsbv clause in gsll polynomial.lisp
2016-08-31T16:43:47Z Grue``: rpg: cl-ppcre has split, but join has nothing to do with regexes so it probably doesn't have it
2016-08-31T16:44:10Z rpg: Grue``: I just assumed it would because I think of join as the inverse of split.
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2016-08-31T16:58:52Z raydeejay: rpg: I tried redshank in my emacs 24, works fine
2016-08-31T16:59:09Z rpg: raydeejay: thanks. I grabbed a copy.  I'll see how it works.
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2016-08-31T17:51:09Z jasom: malice`: the equivalent of python's join is usually done with format, as you found.
2016-08-31T17:54:53Z Posterdati: LiamH: hi
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2016-08-31T17:59:23Z dlowe: I ended up making my own join. Both format and using a string-stream were kinda slow.
2016-08-31T17:59:33Z dlowe: but it can be fast if you already know the length.
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2016-08-31T18:13:56Z rpg: dlowe: submit to Alexandria?
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2016-08-31T18:14:16Z dlowe: hm. didn't think of that.
2016-08-31T18:15:03Z LiamH: Posterdati: Hi
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2016-08-31T18:16:59Z LiamH: warweasle: look at Antik's foreign-array. That is built on static-vectors.
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2016-08-31T18:20:44Z rpg: dlowe: I'm getting to be a firm believer in not having to rediscover someone's cleverness!
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2016-08-31T18:21:10Z dlowe: alexandria has a reputation for being hard to add to
2016-08-31T18:21:26Z rpg: oh, I don't know much about the project, TBH.
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2016-08-31T18:22:56Z warweasle: Is there a map-tree function?
2016-08-31T18:23:21Z Xach: warweasle: not built-in
2016-08-31T18:23:39Z warweasle: Xach: Ok, then I'm not duplicating work.
2016-08-31T18:25:16Z Xach: warweasle: http://lisptips.com/post/43404489000/the-tree-walkers-of-cl sort of
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2016-08-31T18:34:12Z warweasle: Xach: I just realized I'm traversing objects with a "children" method. Tree walkers wouldn't work.
2016-08-31T18:36:59Z dlowe: I bet you could make a generic one.
2016-08-31T18:39:29Z warweasle: dlowe: Done and done.
2016-08-31T18:39:49Z warweasle: I just don't like to roll my own when I don't need to. It confuses people.
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2016-08-31T18:40:51Z pareidolia: I made a mental note to browse Alexandria as bedside reading
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2016-08-31T18:44:15Z haom: hello #lisp, what is the way to insert a long literal string into lisp code but avoiding newline characters?
2016-08-31T18:44:35Z haom: how do i hint that the string is continued to the next line?
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2016-08-31T18:45:42Z pareidolia: You could filter newlines
2016-08-31T18:46:22Z pareidolia: In top level assignment this would happen only once
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2016-08-31T18:46:50Z edgar-rft: haom: FORMAT has ~<newline> to write a single string in several lines if that's what you're looking for
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2016-08-31T18:47:52Z haom: i have found that for format, but i just want to assign a long string to a variable, without the newlines.
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2016-08-31T18:48:49Z jackdaniel: haom: if you pass NIL as a stream to format, it will return a string instead of writing it somewhere else
2016-08-31T18:48:58Z jasom: #.(format nil "foo~<newline>bar")
2016-08-31T18:49:00Z haom: if theres no standard way, I'll filter out the newlines, i just wanted somebody to confirm that there is none, because i found none on my own.
2016-08-31T18:49:07Z jackdaniel: (defparameter *xxx* (format nil "bah~
2016-08-31T18:49:10Z jackdaniel: hi"))
2016-08-31T18:49:16Z pareidolia: jackdaniel: He wants a here-doc without newlines
2016-08-31T18:49:42Z jackdaniel: ah, right
2016-08-31T18:49:45Z haom: jackdaniel: i am not using format, so that wont help
2016-08-31T18:49:49Z jackdaniel: I have a reader macro for that
2016-08-31T18:49:53Z jackdaniel: but not on this computer
2016-08-31T18:50:01Z jasom: haom: why aren't you using format?
2016-08-31T18:50:22Z haom: i'm not outputting the string anywhere
2016-08-31T18:50:31Z jasom: haom: so?
2016-08-31T18:50:54Z pareidolia: format nil
2016-08-31T18:51:11Z haom: ok, let me try that.
2016-08-31T18:51:35Z jasom: http://paste.lisp.org/display/324737
2016-08-31T18:51:48Z pareidolia: But it's so easy just do (remove #\Newline "mylongstring....")
2016-08-31T18:52:06Z jasom: I assume a constant string is okay, so I used #.
2016-08-31T18:52:37Z jackdaniel: so he doesn't need heredoc after all? :p
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2016-08-31T18:53:13Z pareidolia: Whatever a here doc means in lisp code
2016-08-31T18:53:18Z jackdaniel: I have it in my toolbox as #" TAG
2016-08-31T18:53:22Z jackdaniel: text follows
2016-08-31T18:53:23Z jackdaniel: TAG
2016-08-31T18:53:35Z jackdaniel: and tag may be any symbol
2016-08-31T18:53:47Z jasom: jackdaniel: do you allow parameter substitution if tag is unquoted?
2016-08-31T18:53:49Z jasom: :P
2016-08-31T18:54:33Z jackdaniel: you mean something like in cl-interpol?
2016-08-31T18:54:51Z jasom: jackdaniel: I have no idea what it would mean in lisp, but that's how bourne style here-docs work
2016-08-31T18:54:53Z jackdaniel: no, it's just a dumb reader macro
2016-08-31T18:54:57Z jasom: << EOF vs << 'EOF'
2016-08-31T18:55:39Z jackdaniel: if I need this, I'd go for what ruby does, that is #{form}
2016-08-31T18:56:10Z haom: jasom, ok, this seems to be exactly what i was looking for, could you point me to what the reader macro #. is doing to the following form?
2016-08-31T18:56:20Z jasom: haom: #. means "evaluate at read time"
2016-08-31T18:56:21Z jackdaniel: but I'm not sure, how I would distinguish tag from substitute-allowing from the other one - it's just a symbol
2016-08-31T18:56:22Z jasom: clhs #.
2016-08-31T18:56:22Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhf.htm
2016-08-31T18:56:36Z jasom: haom: so that saves you from calling format every time the variable binding happens
2016-08-31T18:56:48Z haom: ok, thanks very much.
2016-08-31T18:57:04Z jackdaniel: hm, but if he modifies the string, won't it affect all future bindings?
2016-08-31T18:57:14Z jasom: jackdaniel: well hew was using a string literal previously
2016-08-31T18:57:15Z jackdaniel: I'd skip #. here
2016-08-31T18:57:32Z haom: i dont modify the string, i parse it in a non-destructive way.
2016-08-31T18:57:33Z jasom: the closest to a string literal would be to use #., but it will work either way
2016-08-31T18:57:55Z jackdaniel: haom: OK, but if you want to modify it, remove #. (and don't use string literals :)
2016-08-31T18:58:21Z jasom: haom: just remember not to blindy copy the #. until you learn the ramifications of it.
2016-08-31T18:58:49Z jackdaniel: maybe if the tag is a keyword?
2016-08-31T18:59:12Z mordocai: Is there a pre-existing CL library to watch a directory for file changes and then run a callback or do I have to integrate with C bindings for that? I only need linux support.
2016-08-31T18:59:13Z jackdaniel: that wouldn't be very lispy, but at least syntax would be pretty easy to grasp
2016-08-31T18:59:25Z jasom: jackdaniel: for here-doc and subtitutions?
2016-08-31T18:59:31Z jackdaniel: jasom: yes
2016-08-31T18:59:43Z jackdaniel: #" TAG … TAG  vs #" :TAG … TAG
2016-08-31T18:59:59Z jackdaniel: mordocai: fstat, I think cl-fad has it, but not sure
2016-08-31T19:00:06Z jackdaniel: various implementations give you that
2016-08-31T19:00:23Z jasom: I think Erik Naggum had a dnotify library
2016-08-31T19:00:45Z mordocai: The goal is to enhance my coleslaw development workflow
2016-08-31T19:00:53Z jackdaniel: no, cl-fad doesn't have it
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2016-08-31T19:01:09Z mordocai: I've already got hunchentoot serving the dist files now I just need auto re-running
2016-08-31T19:01:12Z jasom: mordocai: googlinkg found me this https://github.com/Ferada/cl-inotify
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2016-08-31T19:01:12Z Cthulhux: under which circumstances can i replace double quotes with colons? sometimes they do the same in a command, sometimes one of them doesn't work.
2016-08-31T19:01:14Z jackdaniel: I mildly remember you've used my cl-who extension to coleslaw, right? :)
2016-08-31T19:01:26Z mordocai: jackdaniel: Yep
2016-08-31T19:01:29Z mordocai: For my static pages
2016-08-31T19:01:30Z jasom: and this https://github.com/stassats/inotify
2016-08-31T19:01:41Z jackdaniel: yes, I wrote it for that – did you find any problems?
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2016-08-31T19:01:57Z jasom: looks like both of those are in quicklisp as well mordocai
2016-08-31T19:01:59Z mordocai: jasom: Thanks, I wasn't sure how to google for it
2016-08-31T19:02:11Z jackdaniel: Cthulhux: (?)
2016-08-31T19:02:16Z dlowe: warweasle: http://paste.lisp.org/display/324738
2016-08-31T19:02:21Z jasom: mordocai: I happen to know that inotify is the system call, so that helped
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2016-08-31T19:02:49Z jackdaniel: Cthulhux: if you need a string, use double quote, if you need a keyword, use a colon
2016-08-31T19:03:07Z mordocai: jackdaniel: Not really. The only problem (which is really more a coleslaw problem) is that I had to make sure to grab cl-who with quicklisp first. It'd be nice if the plugins could self-install deps or something I feel. Or maybe offer to do so with the conditions system?
2016-08-31T19:03:25Z mordocai: I don't do anything advanced though https://gitlab.com/mordocai/mordocai.net
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2016-08-31T19:03:47Z Cthulhux: jackdaniel, there seem to be commands which don't really care, e.g. ql:quickload works with (ql:quickload "foo") and (ql:quickload :foo)
2016-08-31T19:03:47Z jackdaniel: btw, you may be interested in creating a nice console executable
2016-08-31T19:03:57Z jackdaniel: I have found it very useful on server deploys
2016-08-31T19:04:27Z jasom: clhs string designator
2016-08-31T19:04:29Z jackdaniel: Cthulhux: yes, but you should care when you write your program
2016-08-31T19:04:57Z Cthulhux: jackdaniel, ah, it's just "convenient" in ql but not generally applicable then? i see, thanks.
2016-08-31T19:05:28Z jasom: Cthulhux: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_s.htm#string_designator
2016-08-31T19:05:51Z mordocai: jackdaniel: Yeah, i'm doing things the "old school" way and just loading functions.lisp into my sly lisp image and running them
2016-08-31T19:06:09Z jasom: Cthulhux: 'foo and :foo are both symbols; it is a common (but not universal) practice for libraries to allow symbols to stand-in for strings, particularly when the capitalization of the string is unimportant.
2016-08-31T19:06:17Z jackdaniel: I have clonified it and use it as a standalone application
2016-08-31T19:06:21Z mordocai: But as you can see i'm deploying with rysnc ran with uiop:run-program and always run it from my desktop/laptop
2016-08-31T19:06:43Z Cthulhux: jasom: makes sense, thank you :-)
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2016-08-31T19:06:51Z jackdaniel: I did a git hook: coleslaw $REPO
2016-08-31T19:07:00Z jackdaniel: where coleslaw is in the PATH
2016-08-31T19:07:01Z jasom: Cthulhux: if you want to allow string designators, the CL function string will convert a string designator to a string.
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2016-08-31T19:07:34Z jasom: clhs string
2016-08-31T19:07:34Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/a_string.htm
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2016-08-31T19:30:56Z pipping: Does Edmund Weitz ever spend time in here?
2016-08-31T19:34:21Z pipping: I've been looking at unicode support provided by different lisps and also cl-unicode and through none of them have I been able to upcase a German sharp s (name-char "LATIN_SMALL_LETTER_SHARP_S"). The result should be "SS" (two characters), which wouldn't really work with cl-unicode (its uppercase-mapping is character-to-character) and string-upcase just leaves it unchanged on the lisps with native unicode
2016-08-31T19:34:22Z pipping: support that I tried.
2016-08-31T19:35:08Z Xach: pipping: no
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2016-08-31T19:36:15Z jackdaniel: unless he sneaks here incognito
2016-08-31T19:36:16Z jasom: pipping: what is your locale set to?
2016-08-31T19:36:22Z pipping: (expecting string-upcase to be able to handle this is not entirely ridiculous. it can handle simpler cases like a Polish L, i.e. (name-char "LATIN_SMALL_LETTER_L_WITH_STROKE"))
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2016-08-31T19:36:41Z jackdaniel: Ł
2016-08-31T19:37:09Z jasom: capitalizing of that letter is locale dependent
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2016-08-31T19:42:16Z jasom: And #\LATIN_CAPITAL_LETTER_SHARP_S is used for all-caps geographical names IIRC
2016-08-31T19:44:06Z jasom: And in Austria IIRC SZ can be a capitalization of ß
2016-08-31T19:44:46Z dim: see also the dotted and non dotted i in Turkish
2016-08-31T19:45:03Z raydeejay: aren't those different letters altogether?
2016-08-31T19:45:11Z dim: small non-dotted i upcases to dotted I and the other way round
2016-08-31T19:45:46Z jasom: SZ apparently used to be more common and there are still holdovers in Germany; see Schießgerät => SCHIESZGERÄT
2016-08-31T19:46:24Z dim: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dotted_and_dotless_I
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2016-08-31T19:46:57Z pipping: jasom: I set my LANG to de_DE.utf8
2016-08-31T19:47:07Z pipping: jasom: then, inside sbcl, I ran (string-upcase (format nil "Fu~a" (name-char "LATIN_SMALL_LETTER_SHARP_S")))
2016-08-31T19:47:12Z jasom: pipping: yeah I tried that and got no difference; I wonder what iconv does.
2016-08-31T19:47:17Z pipping: jasom: that gave me FUß (not what I wanted)
2016-08-31T19:47:39Z pareidolia: Hehe. It works for my country ÿ Ÿ
2016-08-31T19:48:05Z raydeejay: the thing is that SS is two characters
2016-08-31T19:48:24Z pipping: raydeejay: I agree, it's a PITA, I wouldn't want to have to implement it either
2016-08-31T19:48:42Z pipping: raydeejay: but I'm being all-user here, just expecting things to work ;)
2016-08-31T19:48:42Z pareidolia: And it's a lossy operation
2016-08-31T19:48:48Z pareidolia: It won't contract them going lowercase
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2016-08-31T19:49:06Z raydeejay: if there was a GERMAN SS LIGATURE in unicode or something like that... but AFAIU it's actually two letters
2016-08-31T19:49:09Z pipping: right, but that's something you have with upcasing anyway
2016-08-31T19:49:13Z jasom: "ß".capitalize() yields 'SS' in python, so it's not totally out of the question.
2016-08-31T19:50:01Z pipping: raydeejay: there's a capital sharp s in unicode but it's more of an oddity than actually useful because it doesn't really exist in the language
2016-08-31T19:50:02Z ecraven: isn't it the same for final sigma in greek? upcasing is lossy
2016-08-31T19:50:33Z pipping: ecraven: yes, http://unicode.org/faq/casemap_charprop.html is a collection of such frankenstein monsters
2016-08-31T19:50:44Z dim: here (let ((char (name-char "LATIN_SMALL_LETTER_SHARP_S"))) (format t "~a ~a" char (string-upcase (string char)))) gives ß ß
2016-08-31T19:50:50Z pareidolia: We should all speak lojban, problem solved tehee
2016-08-31T19:50:58Z raydeejay: riiight...
2016-08-31T19:51:02Z dim: and (let ((char (name-char "LATIN_SMALL_LETTER_L_WITH_STROKE"))) (format t "~a ~a" char (string-upcase (string char)))) gives ł Ł
2016-08-31T19:51:38Z jasom: pipping: as of 2010 it does exist in the language, but only on government documents with all-caps geographical names.
2016-08-31T19:51:40Z pipping: dim: my point exactly
2016-08-31T19:51:52Z dim: yes
2016-08-31T19:52:02Z jasom: I'm surprised cl-unicode gets it wrong
2016-08-31T19:53:11Z pipping: jasom: the cl-unicode website even makes explicit mention of lowercasing a capital sharp s into a small sharp s, just not the other way around
2016-08-31T19:53:35Z pipping: jasom: right, you actually mentioned that a bit further up. I didn't know that (government documents are always good for a surprise)
2016-08-31T19:53:55Z raydeejay: maybe the point of view is that what's broken is German xD
2016-08-31T19:54:14Z pipping: raydeejay: (string-upcase (format nil "Rak~a" (name-char "LATIN_SMALL_LETTER_DOTLESS_I"))) is no better
2016-08-31T19:54:34Z pipping: ^ although I didn't try a turkish locale for that
2016-08-31T19:55:48Z pareidolia: I speak esperanto, there's actually a whole system to write e.g. ĉirkaŭ, can be chirkau or cxirkaux
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2016-08-31T19:56:34Z raydeejay: my gut reaction is "argh"
2016-08-31T19:57:05Z jasom: And unicode had to have that character since it's appeared in print many times.
2016-08-31T19:57:19Z TCZ: ą
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2016-08-31T19:59:17Z dlowe: I speak lojban. We don't have all these funny diacritics.
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2016-08-31T19:59:34Z pareidolia: .i coi
2016-08-31T20:00:02Z ecraven: ithkuil has a lot of diacritics :)
2016-08-31T20:01:06Z dlowe: .i coi .i ku'i vi na stuzi mapti lonu tavla fo la lojban
2016-08-31T20:01:24Z pipping murmurs very slightly off-topic :P
2016-08-31T20:01:25Z dlowe: or ithkuil
2016-08-31T20:01:29Z dlowe: yes.
2016-08-31T20:01:40Z ecraven: pipping: need to mumble in lojban or ithkuil :p
2016-08-31T20:01:48Z jasom: Internally, Python has a ToUpper and ToUpperFull that are single-character or multi-character
2016-08-31T20:01:50Z pareidolia: dlowe: I actually don't speak lojban, but I do see you're talking about a place
2016-08-31T20:02:12Z pareidolia: The only word I recognize is stuzi
2016-08-31T20:02:13Z dlowe: this isn't an appropriate place to speak in/about lojban
2016-08-31T20:02:47Z pipping: jasom: the fact that python gets this right and common lisp doesn't gives me high blood pressure.
2016-08-31T20:02:51Z pareidolia: A channel is not really a 'place' right? (ok, ok, I will stop OT-ing now)
2016-08-31T20:03:25Z raydeejay: pareidolia: only if you can SETF it
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2016-08-31T20:08:27Z jasom: http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/SpecialCasing.txt has the data, I bet adding it to cl-unicode is doable without too much work
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2016-08-31T20:09:29Z akkad: which implementation has the best profiler support?
2016-08-31T20:09:39Z shka_: don't know about best
2016-08-31T20:09:46Z jasom: akkad: I find sbcl's to be great, haven't really compared it though
2016-08-31T20:09:52Z shka_: but sbcl generally speaking does the trick
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2016-08-31T20:10:11Z jasom: akkad: it includes instruction-level annotation of disassembly
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2016-08-31T20:16:32Z scymtym: pipping: (sb-unicode:uppercase "ß") => "SS"
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2016-08-31T20:18:02Z jasom: string-upcase is not allowed to change the length of the string
2016-08-31T20:18:26Z jasom: "More precisely, each character of the result string is produced by applying the function char-upcase to the corresponding character of string."
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2016-08-31T20:19:11Z dlowe: yeah, well, in light of recent developments, I think common lisp's string handling could use an overhaul
2016-08-31T20:19:24Z jasom: no kidding
2016-08-31T20:19:33Z pipping: scymtym: sweet!
2016-08-31T20:20:01Z pipping: jasom: fair enough. doesn't explain the turkish dotless i issue, though
2016-08-31T20:20:40Z jasom: The rest of the world seems to have standardized on strings are byte-vectors that carry an encoding versus strings are character-vectors and I/O carries an encoding.
2016-08-31T20:21:11Z jasom: And then there's rust which specifies the byte representation of strings...
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2016-08-31T20:21:31Z pipping: I guess deep down I knew that if anyone got it right, it would be sbcl. I love you, sbcl.
2016-08-31T20:21:46Z dlowe: In Go, it's just utf-8, and you can go stuff it if you don't like it.
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2016-08-31T20:24:13Z jasom: hmm, sb-unicode doesn't look particularly sbcl specific, might be worth pulling out into a library
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2016-08-31T20:28:23Z pipping: It's a rather young package judging by https://groups.google.com/d/topic/sbcl-devel/ycdJqaxi7r4/discussion
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2016-08-31T20:30:26Z scymtym: the bulk of it was written as gsoc project a few years ago
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2016-08-31T20:54:03Z mordocai: loke: FYI, there are a number of ssl cert issues with the potato sites. https://blog.potato.network/ is for *.tumblr.com and https://www.potato.network/ also has a bad cert (but https://potato.dhsdevelopments.com/ has a good cert).
2016-08-31T20:55:42Z mordocai: (the only reason I noticed https://blog.potato.network is because https://potato.dhsdevelopments.com links to it intead of the http version)
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2016-08-31T21:27:01Z PuercoPop: mordocai: Btw there is the cli-comands branch has some work towards a CLI version of coleslaw (using cl-launch)
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2016-08-31T21:40:54Z mordocai: PuercoPop: I'm actually not overly interested in a CLI personally. I like running it from sly
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2016-08-31T21:43:47Z jasom: For others looking to use quicklisp for packaging quicklisp in other package managers, here's my script for getting all dependencies of a system: http://paste.lisp.org/display/324744
2016-08-31T21:44:01Z jasom: s/packaging quicklisp/packaging lisp libraries/
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2016-08-31T21:44:41Z jasom: it should also work with stuff inside a local-projects directory of qlclean, but I have not yet tested that
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2016-08-31T21:45:16Z XachX_: jasom: would dependency-tree help at all?
2016-08-31T21:45:37Z jasom: XachX_: what is dependency-tree?
2016-08-31T21:45:47Z jasom: (it might)
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2016-08-31T21:46:37Z jasom: oh, yes.  I didn't notice it because it doesn't appear  to be exported
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2016-08-31T21:47:23Z XachX_: jasom: I think it is.
2016-08-31T21:47:35Z XachX_: (Outside on my phone right now)
2016-08-31T21:47:57Z jasom: not in the client version I have
2016-08-31T21:48:08Z jasom: which is 2016-02-22
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2016-08-31T21:50:18Z mordocai: jasom: What other package manager are you packaging quicklisp stuff for?
2016-08-31T21:50:28Z jasom: XachX_: only downside is that dependency-tree seems to not check local-projects; dependency-tree does
2016-08-31T21:50:39Z jasom: mordocai: I'm trying to improve lisp support on nixos
2016-08-31T21:51:40Z mordocai: jasom: Cool, if I ever get back into using guix i'll be doing the same there.
2016-08-31T21:51:59Z mordocai: It wasn't working well on top of debian and I have non-free stuff I rely on so I gave up for now
2016-08-31T21:52:08Z jasom: mordocai: the current nix expressions are a bit odd.  also the naming is bizarre and broken (e.g. cl+ssl can only be installed by path, not by package name)
2016-08-31T21:52:33Z XachX_: jasom: right. It will cover the parts quick lisp can provide.
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2016-08-31T22:06:26Z jasom wonders how adsf-output-translations behaves in the presence of symlinks; that will affect my design if I want system-wide FASLs
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2016-08-31T22:07:02Z jasom: actuallly I can just use /nix/store paths in the source registry and then it doesn't matter
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2016-08-31T22:37:28Z pipping: is there a way for me to not write (flet ... (flet )) when the the inner function needs to call the outer?
2016-08-31T22:37:46Z White_Flame: (labels ((fun1 ...) (fun2 ...))) ...)
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2016-08-31T22:38:22Z White_Flame: clhs labels
2016-08-31T22:38:22Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_flet_.htm
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2016-08-31T22:39:00Z raydeejay: there's history around why it's not called flet*, I guess ^^
2016-08-31T22:39:22Z pierpa: labels came first, flet later
2016-08-31T22:40:07Z pipping: White_Flame: Good point, thanks. Does even more than I need but I guess that won't hurt :)
2016-08-31T22:40:18Z akkad: (read-string (&optional (quote #\") (esc #\Backslash)) => Meaningless character name Backslash [file position = 3746] Reader-error.
2016-08-31T22:40:23Z akkad: is that something sbcl specific?
2016-08-31T22:40:41Z pipping: that two packages on quicklisp define a flet* is a tad unnecessary then I guess
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2016-08-31T22:41:13Z White_Flame: I guess a flet* would let you reuse function names, shadowing the earlier ones with the later
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2016-08-31T22:41:47Z White_Flame: but yeah, labels is easy enough to use all the time instead of flet.  There should be no runtime difference
2016-08-31T22:41:51Z pipping: Oh, right. That could actually be useful. I spoke too soon.
2016-08-31T22:41:52Z raydeejay: mmm so labels won't shadow them, I understand?
2016-08-31T22:42:12Z White_Flame: I believe labels will throw a warning/error at you if you repeat function names within the same labels form
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2016-08-31T22:42:41Z White_Flame: but nested LABELS should shadow the outer.  flet* would just let you do it non-nested
2016-08-31T22:43:10Z raydeejay: (labels ((a () 3) (a () 4)) (a)) is not complaining in this sbcl
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2016-08-31T22:43:59Z White_Flame: and it just returns 4?  ok then
2016-08-31T22:44:01Z raydeejay: (labels ((a () 3) (a () (+ (a) 4))) (a)) ;;=> gives 7
2016-08-31T22:44:38Z mordocai: akkad: What context are you running that in?
2016-08-31T22:44:51Z akkad: mordocai: ql loading queen
2016-08-31T22:46:36Z akkad: clhs #esc
2016-08-31T22:46:36Z specbot: Couldn't find anything for #esc.
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2016-08-31T22:47:29Z mordocai: clhs read-string
2016-08-31T22:47:29Z specbot: Couldn't find anything for read-string.
2016-08-31T22:49:22Z raydeejay wonders if they're looking for #\Escape and read-line
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2016-08-31T22:52:15Z akkad: guessing that needs to be (esc #\\)
2016-08-31T22:53:28Z mordocai: akkad: Works in sbcl 1.3.7 (defun test (&optional (quote #\") (esc #\Backslash)))
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2016-08-31T22:54:01Z mordocai: Though, I couldn't get queen to work because it doesn't load cl-ppcre-unicode right on my system I guess.
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2016-08-31T22:54:41Z akkad: but is #\Backslash portable? not seeing it in the clhs docs for reader
2016-08-31T22:55:32Z akkad: yeah ccl, lw, allegro all say Unknown character name - "Backslash" .
2016-08-31T22:55:33Z akkad:  
2016-08-31T22:55:54Z raydeejay: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw70/CLHS/Body/13_ag.htm Character Names
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2016-08-31T23:03:43Z raydeejay: as a note, SBCL has #\Slash too :)
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2016-08-31T23:10:21Z akkad: how are they defined?
2016-08-31T23:10:24Z akkad: in sbcl
2016-08-31T23:11:53Z raydeejay: https://gist.github.com/be7f9f539c3fab5436cc3b9ce70b4919
2016-08-31T23:12:13Z raydeejay: wait xD
2016-08-31T23:12:42Z raydeejay: https://gist.github.com/d137ae85584d3a9620dcbc4c4734f5fa I pasted the whole 90k of repl buffer before :D
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