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2016-08-28T02:37:00Z Guest76315: hello I'm reading sicp, now I want to write a function by cl.
2016-08-28T02:37:14Z Guest76315: (defun half-interval-method (fn a b)
2016-08-28T02:37:14Z Guest76315:   "find a answer for fn=0 betwween a and b."
2016-08-28T02:37:14Z Guest76315:   (let ((test-a (funcall fn a))
2016-08-28T02:37:14Z Guest76315:         (test-b (funcall fn b)))
2016-08-28T02:37:14Z Guest76315:     (cond (((and (negtivep test-a)
2016-08-28T02:37:15Z Guest76315:                  (positivep test-b))
2016-08-28T02:37:15Z Guest76315:             (search-half fn a b))
2016-08-28T02:37:16Z Guest76315:            ((and (positivep test-a)
2016-08-28T02:37:16Z Guest76315:                  (negtivep test-b))
2016-08-28T02:37:17Z Guest76315:             (search-half fn b a ))
2016-08-28T02:37:17Z Guest76315:            (t (error "Values are not of oppositive sign" a b))))))
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2016-08-28T02:38:00Z Guest76315: but it didn't work.
2016-08-28T02:43:26Z blub: guest76315: please use a pastebin website for that amount of code in the future
2016-08-28T02:43:37Z blub: you have an extra set of parens around the cond clauses
2016-08-28T02:43:56Z blub: cond takes any number of clauses, not one list of them
2016-08-28T02:46:41Z blub: ie (cond (test-1 result-1) (test-2 result-2) ...)
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2016-08-28T02:49:00Z Guest76315: blub: oh,I'll use pastebin later.thank you! I get it! :)
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2016-08-28T02:52:47Z lambdice: hello, how union are really done? i dont understand the logic when element are duplicated. (union '(a a c) '(b a a)) => (C B A A )
2016-08-28T02:53:16Z lambdice: but (union '(a a c) '(b a c)) => (B AC)
2016-08-28T02:55:40Z lambdice: (union '(a a c) '(b a a)) vs (union '(a a c) '(b a))
2016-08-28T03:05:02Z blub: clhs union
2016-08-28T03:05:03Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_unionc.htm
2016-08-28T03:05:19Z blub:  If there is a duplication between list-1 and list-2, only one of the duplicate instances will be in the result. If either list-1 or list-2 has duplicate entries within it, the redundant entries might or might not appear in the result.
2016-08-28T03:08:13Z lambdice: blub: ah ok this is a bit strange
2016-08-28T03:08:25Z lambdice: blub: probably because union is good for working on set ?
2016-08-28T03:08:42Z blub: yes, that's what it's intended for
2016-08-28T03:09:05Z blub: there's remove-duplicates too if you want to take the duplicates out of a list
2016-08-28T03:11:03Z lambdice: blub: in theory (union lst1 lst2) == (union lst2 lst1) ?
2016-08-28T03:12:47Z blub: lambdice: if neither list contains duplicates then yes. if one does, it doesn't give any guarantee that it will keep/remove them consistently
2016-08-28T03:14:28Z lambdice: blub: thx !
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2016-08-28T04:38:32Z beach: Good morning everyone!
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2016-08-28T04:49:39Z blub: hi beach
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2016-08-28T05:20:20Z jlarocco: I'm using CommonQt and QTools, and if I get a lisp error after the point Qt is loaded and running I have to kill *inferior-lisp* and restart slime
2016-08-28T05:20:24Z jlarocco: is there a way around that?
2016-08-28T05:21:00Z jlarocco: I think it has something to do with qt starting threads or something, but the error messages aren't very clear
2016-08-28T05:22:24Z jlarocco: usually it's just really annoying, but after updating quicklisp today, I can only load the qt libraries once for some reason, so getting a lisp error in a qt callback means restarting emacs
2016-08-28T05:23:07Z jlarocco: i suspect it's a PATH issue of some kind, "Unable to load foreign library (libcommonqt)"
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2016-08-28T06:24:56Z gabriel_laddel: I don't know if anyone in here is a McCLIM donor, but if you are, I urge you to defund the project
2016-08-28T06:25:33Z gabriel_laddel: Further details: https://github.com/gabriel-laddel/clim
2016-08-28T06:26:08Z gabriel_laddel: Btw, I'm happy to discuss this in as much detail as you'd like.  The only rush I'm in is to complete the CLX implementation, and that means ensuring that everyone onboard with this has aligned interests / clearly understands why they're involved with CLIM.
2016-08-28T06:26:53Z gabriel_laddel: If I log off for any reason, you are free to email me with questions, or simply drop them in the log prepended with my name. I'll catch up.
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2016-08-28T06:29:56Z gabriel_laddel: If you are unfamiliar with my relation to McCLIM: I am responsible for the recent revival, which has been hijacked by jackdaniel. ~All of the screenshots, quotes etc on the website were found or created by yours truely, and I'm probably the only person on earth who uses CLIM on a day-to-day basis.
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2016-08-28T06:34:09Z axion: With FORMAT, is it possible to pad the end of an argument with as many of #\Space as it takes to make the output of that argument a specified length of characters?
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2016-08-28T06:34:33Z n7288: hi
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2016-08-28T06:35:27Z n7288: hello
2016-08-28T06:35:39Z Bike: axion: i think you would use ~< for that
2016-08-28T06:35:39Z jlarocco: yes
2016-08-28T06:36:10Z jlarocco: (format nil "~20a" "omg") -> "omg                 "
2016-08-28T06:36:40Z Bike: huh. shows what i know
2016-08-28T06:36:45Z jlarocco: I think there is a way to make the number an argument itself
2016-08-28T06:37:02Z Bike: you use v instead of the number, yeah.
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2016-08-28T06:37:55Z axion: Ok thanks
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2016-08-28T06:40:34Z axion: Would be nice if this truncated if need be also
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2016-08-28T07:38:52Z racketschemer: Hi, i just have what seems to be a little package problem. According to the cl cookbook, SBCL supports PORT sockets, but none of the described functions work. Are they in a separate package?
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2016-08-28T07:39:53Z jackdaniel: racketschemer: sb-bsd-sockets may be what you look for
2016-08-28T07:40:19Z jackdaniel: there are also usocket and iolib as a portability layers which provide socket abstraction
2016-08-28T07:40:45Z jackdaniel: (usocket and iolib are libraries of course)
2016-08-28T07:42:25Z racketschemer: I think it's not bsd sockets: http://cl-cookbook.sourceforge.net/sockets.html
2016-08-28T07:42:49Z Bike: well, it says right there that PORT is provided by the CLOCC library.
2016-08-28T07:43:18Z Bike: incidentally, you should be aware that the cookbook and CLOCC are both pretty old, i don't know if anyone uses the latter
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2016-08-28T07:44:27Z racketschemer OK, sorry, i didn't know :-)
2016-08-28T07:45:53Z jackdaniel: racketschemer: for portable sockets (across operating systems) go for usocket, if you want unix sockets check out the iolib. Systems are usually acquired with quicklisp (check the quicklisp.org)
2016-08-28T07:46:00Z Bike: as an example of use for the first section there, (sb-bsd-sockets:get-host-by-name "www.lisp.org") => #<HOST-ENT>
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2016-08-28T07:46:59Z jackdaniel: or if you care about SBCL only, you may use sb-bsd-sockets of course
2016-08-28T07:47:56Z racketschemer: Is it portable across OSes?
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2016-08-28T07:48:54Z jackdaniel: it should work on windows for instance
2016-08-28T07:49:40Z racketschemer: ...And in linux, os x BSD (of course), etc, etc.
2016-08-28T07:49:45Z jackdaniel: yes
2016-08-28T07:50:29Z jackdaniel: using usocket (or iolib if you don't care about windows) will make your program portable between Common Lisp implementations additionally
2016-08-28T07:50:30Z racketschemer: Well it works everywhere :-)
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2016-08-28T07:52:27Z racketschemer: I'm reading the website of usocket, and, i'm not sure i understood it the right way; are they saying they didn't implement functions to send or receive data over tcp?
2016-08-28T07:53:17Z Bike: "The project wants to provide a portable TCP/IP and UDP/IP socket interface"
2016-08-28T07:53:20Z thiefuniverse: hello, how can i get a quotient directly :) ? have an existed function?
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2016-08-28T07:53:51Z Bike: a quotient? you can divide with /, or mod or rem or floor or ffloor or ceiling or fceiling or
2016-08-28T07:54:18Z jackdaniel: hm, weird, but it seems that you are right
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2016-08-28T07:55:27Z thiefuniverse: Bike: I want to get an integer directly. but / won't work.
2016-08-28T07:55:41Z racketschemer: Yes, but they say "implementation of send/recv/shutdown: TODO"
2016-08-28T07:55:45Z Bike: thiefuniverse: the floor family gives you a quotient/remainder pair, where the quotient is an integer
2016-08-28T07:55:50Z Bike: clhs floor
2016-08-28T07:55:51Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_floorc.htm
2016-08-28T08:00:03Z thiefuniverse: well,thanks
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2016-08-28T08:06:16Z racketschemer: How do i install usocket?
2016-08-28T08:06:39Z Bike: https://www.quicklisp.org/beta/ and then (ql:quickload :usocket)
2016-08-28T08:06:57Z racketschemer: OK ;-)
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2016-08-28T08:43:17Z shka_: hello
2016-08-28T08:43:34Z shka_: is there any generic function like "elt"?
2016-08-28T08:43:44Z shka_: i heared about generilized sequences
2016-08-28T08:44:03Z shka_: that are "almost" standard nowdays
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2016-08-28T08:50:47Z loke`: shka_: Well, most CL's have them.
2016-08-28T08:50:57Z loke`: But, the API is very different in each/
2016-08-28T08:51:03Z shka_: oh, that sucks
2016-08-28T08:51:13Z shka_: some compatibility layer perhaps?
2016-08-28T08:51:21Z shka_: or should i simply forget about those
2016-08-28T08:51:26Z loke`: shka_: they are different enough that that's not realy possible.
2016-08-28T08:51:47Z loke`: You should, and use a generic collections library instead.
2016-08-28T08:51:50Z loke`: I wrote my own.
2016-08-28T08:51:51Z loke`: :-)
2016-08-28T08:52:45Z Bike: there are implementations that have extended sequences not through crhodes' thing?
2016-08-28T08:53:05Z loke`: Bike: I was pretty sure LW had something very special.
2016-08-28T08:53:12Z Bike: oh, figures
2016-08-28T08:53:21Z loke`: Well, don't take my word for it.
2016-08-28T08:53:25Z loke`: I'm not an LW user.
2016-08-28T08:53:42Z shka_: oh well
2016-08-28T08:54:12Z shka_: i just wanted to add pretty api to wrapped qvariantlist
2016-08-28T08:54:17Z shka_: but whatever
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2016-08-28T09:12:32Z lexicall: where can i find PAIP ebook with page numbers?
2016-08-28T09:15:02Z Bike: looks like amazon has it for kindle, i'd hope that has page numbers
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2016-08-28T09:21:32Z lexicall: the kindle version is not available right now
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2016-08-28T10:54:40Z oleo: hey
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2016-08-28T11:04:26Z oleo: hmmm
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2016-08-28T11:46:16Z pareidolia: Here's a puzzle. When loading my project with quicklisp I get "constant being redefined" errors (SBCL) even though I only have one top level defconstant for that symbol. It this some sort of bug?
2016-08-28T11:49:35Z jackdaniel: pareidolia: it's a feature, when you load again the same fasl, your constant may get redefined, and then it won't be EQ with the value you could store somewhere else
2016-08-28T11:50:31Z pareidolia: So it gets defined once during compilation, then again during fasl loading ?
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2016-08-28T11:51:13Z pareidolia: Because that's what I think quicklisp does when I ask it to load (I noticed it happens when I "touch" all lisp files)
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2016-08-28T11:51:40Z jackdaniel: more  or less, I think that a good solution would be replacing defconstant with defparameter
2016-08-28T11:52:22Z pareidolia: It seems so, but can I conclude that defconstant requires some sort of eval-when magic?
2016-08-28T11:53:08Z jackdaniel: honestly I don't know, never really think about that
2016-08-28T11:54:49Z pareidolia: I got it
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2016-08-28T11:55:07Z pareidolia: I'm using #p"/some/file" as an expression
2016-08-28T11:55:52Z dim: “variables won't, constant aren't” or something like that
2016-08-28T11:56:12Z dim: jackdaniel: I'd say defvar rather than defparameter?
2016-08-28T11:56:30Z pareidolia:  'l '
2016-08-28T11:56:51Z pareidolia: I'm about to shoot ERC now. Every time I try to paste something it nags about "read only text"
2016-08-28T11:56:51Z jackdaniel: sure, defvar, it won't get redefined
2016-08-28T11:56:54Z jackdaniel: mb
2016-08-28T11:57:04Z pareidolia: CLHS: If a defconstant form appears as a top level form, the compiler must recognize that name names a constant variable. An implementation may choose to evaluate the value-form at compile time, load time, or both. Therefore, users must ensure that the initial-value can be evaluated at compile time (regardless of whether or not references to name appear in the file) and that it always evaluates to the same value.
2016-08-28T11:57:25Z pareidolia: Being same in the sense of EQ I guess, and
2016-08-28T11:57:51Z blub: pareidolia: alexandria has define-constant that lets you specify a different test than eq to use
2016-08-28T11:58:03Z dim: jackdaniel: I'm using pjb's hint here: defvar is for (user) parameters and defparameter for (developer) variables
2016-08-28T11:58:12Z blub: or it's a very simple macro to write
2016-08-28T11:58:21Z pareidolia: i o i bloody ERC
2016-08-28T11:58:40Z pareidolia: Anyone know an equivalent for C-c C-u for ERC?
2016-08-28T11:58:59Z dim: equivalent to what?
2016-08-28T11:59:11Z pareidolia: slime-repl-kill-input here
2016-08-28T11:59:25Z dim: C-a C-k ?
2016-08-28T11:59:30Z pareidolia: It's there, but it doesn't work when I paste garbage
2016-08-28T11:59:53Z blub: c-x u ?
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2016-08-28T12:01:25Z pareidolia: Anyway a pathnames are not EQ for the same path
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2016-08-28T12:02:52Z dim: see uiop:pathname-equal
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2016-08-28T12:10:07Z oleo: what are "callbacks" ?
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2016-08-28T12:10:42Z jackdaniel: oleo: in what context? generally they are higher-order-functions which you pass as parameters. Library calls your function
2016-08-28T12:10:53Z jackdaniel: in C world it's a bit more tricky (because you need to pass a pointer)
2016-08-28T12:11:36Z oleo: ah ok
2016-08-28T12:12:21Z oleo: well someone mentions it on lisperator.net/sytes
2016-08-28T12:12:30Z pareidolia: Nostalgia for my first introduction to callbacks http://www.w3schools.com/jsref/met_win_settimeout.asp
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2016-08-28T14:20:23Z pareidolia: Does anyone know of a library that formats a timestamp into speech (such as 11:55 "five minutes before noon") ?
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2016-08-28T14:31:44Z edgar-rft: pareidolia: There had been some attempts in the 1990s around the "festival" speech synthesizer <http://www.cstr.ed.ac.uk/projects/festival/>, but AFAIK no really usable librabry from that time exists. An easier solution would be to create a  "five minutes before noon" string using FORMAT and let it speak by an external speech synthesizer like <http://espeak.sourceforge.net/>
2016-08-28T14:33:23Z edgar-rft: * no usable libraray = no usable CL library
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2016-08-28T14:47:31Z shka_: how do i handle qt message loop?
2016-08-28T14:47:49Z shka_: should i spawn separate thread to not run on the same thread as repl?
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2016-08-28T14:55:06Z jackdaniel: how do you access static files from a compiled system?
2016-08-28T14:55:30Z jackdaniel: for now I use the source directory pathname from (asdf:system-source-directory 'clamber)
2016-08-28T14:55:47Z jackdaniel: but it doesn't seem very good approach
2016-08-28T14:55:53Z jackdaniel: to be very good°
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2016-08-28T15:01:38Z shrdlu68: Are the hunchentoot logo and the "Land of Lisp" mascots related or is it a case of convergence?
2016-08-28T15:02:16Z shrdlu68: The multi-eyed, multi-legged creature.
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2016-08-28T15:05:11Z pareidolia: edgar-rft: I'm actually using festival :)
2016-08-28T15:11:11Z pipping: shrdlu68: https://www.reddit.com/r/lisp/comments/24in2y/was_the_little_green_alien_guy_always_the_mascot/ seems related
2016-08-28T15:14:57Z shrdlu68: pipping: Yeah, but there's not mention of the hunchentoot logo.
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2016-08-28T15:15:35Z pipping: shrdlu68: that's why it's just related, not the one true answer ;)
2016-08-28T15:15:44Z jackdaniel: afaik this mascotte is in public domain and people are encouraged to use it
2016-08-28T15:16:11Z jackdaniel: http://www.lisperati.com/logo.html
2016-08-28T15:16:19Z pareidolia: Most renditions don't have nice proportions imho
2016-08-28T15:16:30Z pareidolia: I don't like the lizard anyway
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2016-08-28T15:34:44Z puchacz: hi, can I get a current filename?
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2016-08-28T15:34:53Z phoe: puchacz: current filename?
2016-08-28T15:35:05Z puchacz: phoe: yes, like I can get current package in *package*
2016-08-28T15:35:22Z puchacz: current source code file that is
2016-08-28T15:35:57Z phoe: hm.
2016-08-28T15:36:26Z phoe: do you need it during compilation time?
2016-08-28T15:36:56Z pareidolia: Like with C asserts and such
2016-08-28T15:37:08Z phoe: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8409527/common-lisp-get-path-to-file
2016-08-28T15:37:11Z phoe: Google tells me this.
2016-08-28T15:37:31Z puchacz: I think so. I would want to use it in macro to create path/my-current-filename.js with all javascript generated from parenscript
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2016-08-28T15:37:45Z shrdlu68: puchacz: One way could be to use `describe` on a function you know is in the file.
2016-08-28T15:37:47Z dim: jackdaniel: I use such forms a lot: (defparameter *root-directory* (asdf:system-relative-pathname :tapoueh "../"))
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2016-08-28T15:39:04Z dim: I also have some cases like (defparameter *model* (read-queries (asdf:system-relative-pathname :pginstall "src/repo/model.sql")) "List of SQL queries to run to prepare our data model.")
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2016-08-28T15:40:02Z dim: where I parse and load entries from a file at load time (thanks to defparameter it's load-time), and that will end up in the image when you save it and die
2016-08-28T15:41:26Z puchacz: shrldu68: it may work, I will try. thanks
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2016-08-28T15:41:39Z puchacz: shrdlu68, sorry :-)
2016-08-28T15:41:44Z shrdlu68: puchacz: I don't know whether this is standard, but `decsribe` tells me the source file of the symbol on SBCL if it's a function declared in a file.
2016-08-28T15:41:53Z puchacz: yes, I can see it
2016-08-28T15:42:04Z puchacz: I just wrapped it with-output-to-string
2016-08-28T15:43:32Z pipping: puchacz: https://mailman.common-lisp.net/pipermail/asdf-devel/2016-August/005401.html from just the other day seems related
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2016-08-28T15:44:17Z puchacz: yeah, I tried both variables
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2016-08-28T15:46:39Z pipping: puchacz: from my understanding, the point is not just using those variables but having them expanded at compile-time (note how the body of the defmacro is not quoted)
2016-08-28T15:47:07Z puchacz: pipping, trying it now
2016-08-28T15:48:46Z puchacz: it is a compile filename, e.g. #P"/tmp/filecokT6T"
2016-08-28T15:54:59Z puchacz: (describe 'foo) works best
2016-08-28T15:55:03Z puchacz: thanks
2016-08-28T15:56:14Z jackdaniel: dim: thanks
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2016-08-28T15:56:21Z jackdaniel: I've found it: (asdf:component-pathname (asdf:find-component :clamber "README.md"))
2016-08-28T15:56:29Z jackdaniel: where README.md is declared as static-file
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2016-08-28T16:14:38Z shrdlu68: `graphic-char-p` The common lisp standard sought to cover all bases ;-)
2016-08-28T16:16:42Z pipping: actually, it only covers bases up to 36.
2016-08-28T16:17:33Z shrdlu68: Hehe
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2016-08-28T16:22:26Z phadthai: "standard bases"
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2016-08-28T17:01:13Z pareidolia: Does the LOOP macro have a facility to bind multiple return values in a for ?
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2016-08-28T17:03:28Z Bike: no. you can fake it with multiple-value-list
2016-08-28T17:03:35Z pareidolia: Ok, still nice
2016-08-28T17:03:39Z pareidolia: Thanks
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2016-08-28T18:00:33Z dim: there's also metabang-bind with some advanced & nice facilities for bindings, including multiple values, and there's iterate which might have something (though IDK)
2016-08-28T18:01:24Z dim: yes, https://common-lisp.net/project/iterate/doc/Destructuring.html#Destructuring
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2016-08-28T18:15:56Z shka_: hmmm
2016-08-28T18:16:30Z shka_: i'm trying to call exec of qapplication (via MY OWN bindings) on the repl thread
2016-08-28T18:16:39Z shka_: repl blocks, my window is not shown
2016-08-28T18:16:56Z shka_: order in which i call is correct
2016-08-28T18:17:07Z shka_: but i'm missing something
2016-08-28T18:17:21Z shka_: should i start another thread and execute exec there?
2016-08-28T18:19:10Z Quadrescence: shka_, I have no idea about the answer but doesn't a qapp need to be run from the first thread of the system or something?
2016-08-28T18:19:20Z Quadrescence: I know nothing about this, just have vague conflated memories about GUIs
2016-08-28T18:19:39Z shka_: looks like good call
2016-08-28T18:19:47Z shka_: Quadrescence: i will check that
2016-08-28T18:20:11Z Quadrescence: try running it without SLIME/repl, but as just a Lisp script or such
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2016-08-28T18:20:56Z shka_: first, i will check docs
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2016-08-28T18:24:07Z puchacz: hi again, can I add (declare (ignore :all-unused-variables)) to macro-generated defun body?
2016-08-28T18:25:14Z Bike: er, if you mean substituting that keyword for the actual symbols, sure?
2016-08-28T18:25:28Z puchacz: Bike: I want the catch-all keyword
2016-08-28T18:25:44Z Bike: that keyword does not exist
2016-08-28T18:25:53Z puchacz: I don't want to analyse lambda list in keyword only to tell to the compiler to ignore all these
2016-08-28T18:26:02Z dim: you can use (declare (ignorable ...)) and list'em all
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2016-08-28T18:26:31Z puchacz: that keyword that I used does not exist, I would like to have something to this effect though
2016-08-28T18:27:27Z Bike: there isn't anything. ignore and ignorable both need the actual variables. what exactly are you doing? you're defining a function with a user-provided lambda list which then ignores all of those arguments?
2016-08-28T18:28:38Z puchacz: Bike: yes. it is a hack and I don't know better. I have a macro that generates javascript functions from parenscript into separate files, and the same macro adds a fake lisp function from the same form so slime go-to-definition can find it.
2016-08-28T18:29:00Z puchacz: basically it is to trick slime into thinking that there is a function there
2016-08-28T18:30:11Z Bike: you don't actually need the lambda list for the fake function then, do you? can you just give it a &rest argument?
2016-08-28T18:30:56Z puchacz: Bike: I don't but giving it a lambda list in the same form as parenscript gives a nice slime help in emacs bottom part :-)
2016-08-28T18:31:11Z Bike: right... maybe you should deal with slime more directly
2016-08-28T18:31:45Z puchacz: when I am tired with my hack, I may look into it....
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2016-08-28T18:32:47Z Bike: anyway there's definitely no ignore thing like you want. you could parse the lambda list with alexandria but then the hack is suddenly pretty complex
2016-08-28T18:34:28Z puchacz: Bike: yes, I know. so is dealing with slime internals... my modus operandi is usually trying to avoid to becoming expert on side tasks. sometimes it leads me astray :-)
2016-08-28T18:34:40Z puchacz: I will live with compilation warnings for now
2016-08-28T18:35:04Z Bike: well i don't think it would be slime internals, i t hink there are interfaces for such things, it's j ust beyond normal slime use
2016-08-28T18:35:08Z Bike: but yes, probably a good policy
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2016-08-28T19:05:47Z ben_vulpes: does anyone know where i might lay a hand on the source for cells-ode?
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2016-08-28T19:25:37Z Bike: "You can get the latest version via WebCVS" dag.
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2016-08-28T19:47:21Z ben_vulpes: Bike: am i doing something stupid that makes the webcvs not work for me?
2016-08-28T19:47:44Z Bike: no my guess would be that cl-net doesn't even have it any more
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2016-08-28T19:48:52Z ben_vulpes: ho
2016-08-28T19:49:07Z ben_vulpes: mwell, author emailed. perhaps i can get a copy that way.
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2016-08-28T20:06:01Z |3b|: ben_vulpes: maybe https://gitlab.common-lisp.net/cells/cells-ode ?
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2016-08-28T20:11:59Z ben_vulpes: ohey!
2016-08-28T20:12:07Z ben_vulpes: |3b|: i had no idea. thank you!
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2016-08-28T21:30:28Z maxztt: Hello. I would like for a function to call itself again when encoutering an error. I tried these approaches: http://paste.lisp.org/display/324489
2016-08-28T21:32:11Z Bike: handler bind inhibits tail position, but more importantly you have the syntax wrong, you want (handler-bind ((m-error #'m)) (write-line "body") (error 'm-error))
2016-08-28T21:32:50Z phoe: (defun foo () (handler-case (baz) (error () (foo))))
2016-08-28T21:32:55Z phoe: something like that?
2016-08-28T21:33:12Z Bike: but that won't work immediately, because handler bind passes the condition, so... that handler case works
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2016-08-28T21:35:41Z Bike: that should also allow a tail call, i think.
2016-08-28T21:37:48Z phoe: Bike: if you're paranoid about that, you can do TAGBODY/GO.
2016-08-28T21:37:59Z phoe: But generally this should allow a tail call wherever applicable.
2016-08-28T21:38:02Z phoe: If in doubt, decompile.
2016-08-28T21:38:08Z Bike: b l e h
2016-08-28T21:38:12Z maxztt: Ah, so m getting seemingly executed twice was just an artifact of my wrong syntax.
2016-08-28T21:38:39Z phoe: maxztt: UNWIND-PROTECT does a different thing.
2016-08-28T21:38:54Z phoe: It's basically a LOOP that doesn't terminate on errors, in this case.
2016-08-28T21:39:16Z phoe: HANDLER-CASE will only loop until the function succeeds, meaning, no error is signaled.
2016-08-28T21:39:27Z Bike: maxztt: what happened was that handler-bind evaluated "(m)" just in order to get the error handler, so it ended up just recursing pointlessly forever
2016-08-28T21:39:39Z phoe: In case of UNWIND-PROTECT, the epilogue is *ALWAYS* run, regardless of what happens.
2016-08-28T21:40:10Z phoe: In case of HANDLER-CASE, it's basically a try-catch in other languages. The function gets re-executed only if an error happens.
2016-08-28T21:40:13Z phoe: Otherwise, it'll return.
2016-08-28T21:40:34Z phoe: So I guess that HANDLER-CASE is the proper tool for the goal you set at the beginning of your paste.
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2016-08-28T21:43:32Z jasom: Is it possible to list all asdf systems configured in your asdf tree?
2016-08-28T21:44:04Z phoe: Should be - ASDF must store a list of the systems it can "see" in order to be able to load them.
2016-08-28T21:44:31Z phoe: I don't know exactly how, but I think the answer is findable.
2016-08-28T21:44:33Z jasom: phoe: technically it doesn't have to, it could just search the fs each time, but that would be slow
2016-08-28T21:44:36Z Bike: i don't think it looks that far ahead
2016-08-28T21:45:12Z phoe: jasom: well, then you can trigger the function that searches the FS and returns the list
2016-08-28T21:45:16Z phoe: voilla, goal achieved
2016-08-28T21:45:22Z Bike: let's see, maybe it's in asdf/source-registry somewhere
2016-08-28T21:47:02Z jasom: Also it's actually unsolvable
2016-08-28T21:47:12Z Bike: mm, nope, this hash table sucks
2016-08-28T21:47:25Z jasom: since custom search functions don't necessarily return a list of systems they know about
2016-08-28T21:48:20Z maxztt: I still don't quite understand why inserting the call to m as one of the cleanup forms of unwind-protect does just execute it once more, instead of leading at least to a stack overflow.
2016-08-28T21:48:43Z Bike: it should execute repeatedly
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2016-08-28T21:49:05Z Bike: as it does, for me.
2016-08-28T21:49:23Z Bike: to the point i can't get out of it, ok cool.
2016-08-28T21:49:34Z Bike: i don't know why i thought this was a good idea
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2016-08-28T21:51:03Z maxztt: Strange, it does not for me. I'm using SBCL 1.1.18. It just executes m once more and then quits.
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2016-08-28T21:51:57Z phoe: 1.1.18
2016-08-28T21:52:00Z phoe: sweet Jesus
2016-08-28T21:52:08Z Bike: well, that's pretty old, but it shouldn't matter
2016-08-28T21:52:47Z phoe: when you execute (m), you end up in an unwind-protect
2016-08-28T21:52:57Z phoe: that, at the end of the function, executes (m)
2016-08-28T21:53:01Z phoe: when you execute (m), you end up in an unwind-protect
2016-08-28T21:53:04Z phoe: that, at the end of the function, executes (m)
2016-08-28T21:54:17Z maxztt: Yes, that was my reasoning. And I came here because it did not work in the way in which i expected it to work. So I thought the unwind-protect might do something special which inhibits another unwind-protect as part of the cleanup forms.
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2016-08-28T21:55:25Z Bike: nope. maybe you mixed up definitions somehow, or maybe sbcl used to get that wrong
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2016-08-28T21:57:24Z TMA: CLHS says: The cleanup-forms of unwind-protect are not protected by that unwind-protect.
2016-08-28T21:57:37Z phoe: TMA: it's correct
2016-08-28T21:57:57Z phoe: but then you execute (m) at the end of first unwind-protect, the second unwind-protect that is inside (m) fires
2016-08-28T21:58:15Z jasom: hmm (asdf:locate-system :uiop) signals an error "nil is not of type hashtable"
2016-08-28T21:58:16Z phoe: so that's basically an endless loop of unwind-proects if your function errors.
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2016-08-28T21:59:04Z TMA: that might be construed as allowing both interpretations, because "that unwind-protect" might be "that lexical unwind-protect" as opposed to "that invocation of unwind-protect"
2016-08-28T21:59:55Z Bike: um, it doesn't matter. the cleanup forms are always called, so m always calls itself.
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2016-08-28T22:02:28Z phoe: ^
2016-08-28T22:04:14Z maxztt: Strange, I just tried it with SBCL 1.3.8 and it produces the same output as the older version. There is nothing else I defined anywhere and I just ran the upper part of the pasted program.
2016-08-28T22:04:50Z TMA: that is true if the protected forms do exit normally/locally. if they exit nonlocally, the behavior differs. in the first interpretation the protected forms in the second invocation of (m) are not protected because they are evaluated as part of the cleanup-forms of that unwind-protect
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2016-08-28T22:05:57Z Bike: that's kind of ridiculous.
2016-08-28T22:05:59Z TMA: but that's confusing and probably wrong
2016-08-28T22:06:43Z Bike: maxztt: you mean it still only calls m once?
2016-08-28T22:06:48Z TMA: yet I feel that it is possible to interpret it that way due to ambiguous wording
2016-08-28T22:07:09Z maxztt: Bike: Twice. The original call and then once as part of the cleanup forms.
2016-08-28T22:07:36Z Bike: from, say, sbcl --eval '(defun m () (unwind-protect (progn (write-line "body") (error "foo")) (m)))' --eval '(m)'
2016-08-28T22:08:51Z Bike: actually you know what, i don't know what's going on any more, never mind
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2016-08-28T22:22:41Z pareidolia: We have ASH, a binary shift. Do we also have a decimal shift?
2016-08-28T22:23:12Z jasom: pareidolia: not that I'm aware of
2016-08-28T22:23:16Z Bike: no. you can multiply by a power of ten
2016-08-28T22:23:22Z jasom: pareidolia: just (* x (expt 10 n))
2016-08-28T22:24:37Z jasom: does asdf:locate-system work for everyone else?
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2016-08-28T22:26:00Z Bike: nope, i get the hash table bit too
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2016-08-28T22:26:58Z jasom: I guess I wanted asdf:find-system anyways
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2016-08-28T22:29:34Z maxztt: phoe: your suggested path sadly does not seem to be able to utilize tail call optimization.
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2016-08-28T22:33:30Z schoppenhauer: hi. is there any example usage of manardb?
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2016-08-28T22:33:50Z schoppenhauer: because the documentation is rather intricate
2016-08-28T22:34:08Z schoppenhauer: actually, I am looking for a simple key/value-store, and I'd prefer not to require the cffi for it
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2016-08-28T22:37:12Z jasom: schoppenhauer: cl-redis doesn't depend on cffi
2016-08-28T22:37:18Z jasom: schoppenhauer: there are probably others as well
2016-08-28T22:38:23Z schoppenhauer: jasom: hm. I want a file as key/value store. otherwise I would use postmodern.
2016-08-28T22:38:33Z jasom: schoppenhauer: ah
2016-08-28T22:39:31Z schoppenhauer: http://www.cliki.net/cl-btree this seems nice
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2016-08-28T22:39:40Z schoppenhauer: at least it sounds nice
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2016-08-28T22:41:07Z jasom: I get the impression that manardb is unmaintained, and has been for some time
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2016-08-28T22:44:14Z schoppenhauer: I could write a simple hashtable myself
2016-08-28T22:44:18Z schoppenhauer: but it would be work
2016-08-28T22:44:32Z schoppenhauer: maybe I just use sqlite and accept cffi
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2016-08-28T22:47:47Z schoppenhauer: at least sqlite is almost certainly installed
2016-08-28T22:48:27Z fe[nl]ix: jasom: its author stopped maintaining it when he left MSI
2016-08-28T22:48:31Z fe[nl]ix: 'about 2009
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2016-08-28T23:23:49Z ZombieChicken: Can anyone suggest a library for handling JSON formatted data?
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2016-08-28T23:42:00Z Xach: ZombieChicken: i use yason and like it.
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2016-08-28T23:46:47Z pareidolia: Did you consider Jonathan?
2016-08-28T23:47:10Z PuercoPop: jasom: what do you think of moving parenscript's in-repo documentation to markdown + travis for gh-pages? (A user was rightfully confused by the outdated documentation
2016-08-28T23:52:58Z ZombieChicken: Xach: I'll have to look at that then. Thank you.
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