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2016-07-30T00:38:18Z pillton: Horay, my first use of cltl2:enclose.
2016-07-30T00:42:03Z pillton: Why is an error signalled if you use a symbol-macrolet for a name which is also a global variable?
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2016-07-30T00:43:39Z Bike: you mean a constant?
2016-07-30T00:44:00Z pillton: Or a global dynamic variable.
2016-07-30T00:44:34Z Bike: oh, how about that.
2016-07-30T00:44:48Z pillton: It is in the spec too.
2016-07-30T00:45:00Z pillton: "If an attempt is made to bind a symbol that is defined as a global variable, an error of type program-error is signaled."
2016-07-30T00:45:21Z Bike: weird.
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2016-07-30T00:46:09Z pillton: I came across it trying to implement the equivalent of macrolet for my namespace.
2016-07-30T00:46:16Z pillton: Which is also the reason I needed enclose.
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2016-07-30T01:10:55Z didi: With SBCL, can I set --dynamic-space-size inside a shebang lisp script?
2016-07-30T01:11:22Z Bike: put it in the shebang line, maybe
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2016-07-30T01:13:35Z didi: Bike: It enters the REPL instead of running the script.
2016-07-30T01:16:47Z axion: You could use roswell with and just use 'exec ros dynamic-space-size=xxx ...' as the docs specify
2016-07-30T01:17:02Z Bike: i was going to say throw in a --script, but computers suck http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4303128/how-to-use-multiple-arguments-with-a-shebang-i-e
2016-07-30T01:17:29Z didi: axion: What is roswell?
2016-07-30T01:17:40Z didi: Bike: Oh well.
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2016-07-30T01:18:23Z axion: https://gist.github.com/fukamachi/94f067a22776bede563c
2016-07-30T01:19:27Z didi: axion: I will take a look at it. Thank you.
2016-07-30T01:19:30Z axion: So the script starts out as interpreted by whatever `sh' is linked to, usually bash, and then starts `ros'
2016-07-30T01:19:40Z axion: and ros dynamic-space-size=x will change what you need
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2016-07-30T03:58:43Z axion: What does the @1= part mean here? http://paste.lisp.org/display/321656
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2016-07-30T04:08:04Z cromachina: im not sure myself, but it looks strikingly like a reference tag
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2016-07-30T04:42:21Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2016-07-30T04:42:37Z axion: Hi, beach.
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2016-07-30T05:35:28Z mr_yogurt: If I want to make executables that aren't 50 megabytes for "hello, world", what should I be using?
2016-07-30T05:35:59Z H4ns: mr_yogurt: c
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2016-07-30T05:45:28Z beach: I don't particularly care about small executables, nor about executables at all, but given the frequency of this complaint, I wonder why no implementation is delivered as a shared object file.  Is it hard to do?
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2016-07-30T05:45:58Z H4ns: it is uninteresting work.  allegro cl can be used as a library.
2016-07-30T05:46:46Z H4ns: also, lisp likes to use the whole process including all memory management and signals, so it is not particularly easy to cohabit with anything else.
2016-07-30T05:47:24Z beach: That seems like an issue that is orthogonal to shipping it as a .so, though.  No?
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2016-07-30T05:47:59Z H4ns: yes and no.  if it'd be easy to cohabit a lisp, the work would not be as uninteresting to make it into an so because the result would be more useful.
2016-07-30T05:49:22Z beach: I guess I don't know what you mean by "to cohabit a lisp".
2016-07-30T05:50:25Z H4ns: a lisp as an .so would be cool if one could just use it as a library from a main program written in another language.  but given that the typical lisp needs a lot of control over the process, that is not really possible.
2016-07-30T05:51:04Z H4ns: mr_yogurt: if you're really into getting a small executable, look at ecl
2016-07-30T05:51:10Z beach: Oh, I see.  Well that's what I meant by orthogonal.  Just shipping the Common Lisp system as a .so would solve the problem of size of executables.
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2016-07-30T05:51:25Z fiddlerwoaroof: Couldn't the lisp provide replacements for things like malloc that would allow C programs to get unmanaged memory?
2016-07-30T05:51:41Z fiddlerwoaroof: Anyways, this is above my paygrade :)
2016-07-30T05:51:47Z H4ns: beach: yes - but it would still uninteresting work to make this happen, and that is how the two things are connected :)
2016-07-30T05:52:00Z beach: H4ns: Got it! :)
2016-07-30T05:52:34Z mr_yogurt: H4ns: thanks. I've heard about ecl but I wasn't sure if it was the recommended one or if there was something better.
2016-07-30T05:52:34Z H4ns: the "executable size" complaint is in the same ballpark as "too many parens", anyway
2016-07-30T05:52:43Z axion: mr_yogurt: also, implementations such as sbcl have an option to compress images
2016-07-30T05:52:55Z axion: iirc sbcl uses zlib (off by default)
2016-07-30T05:52:56Z H4ns: mr_yogurt: sbcl and ccl are better common lisp implementations.
2016-07-30T05:53:06Z H4ns: axion: that gets you from 50 to maybe 30 mb
2016-07-30T05:53:24Z mr_yogurt: H4ns: what do you mean by "better"?
2016-07-30T05:53:26Z fiddlerwoaroof: I have a fairly comple program that's only 21mb
2016-07-30T05:53:31Z axion: H4ns: I recently distributed one that was 17M
2016-07-30T05:53:41Z fiddlerwoaroof: compressed with --compress 8
2016-07-30T05:53:43Z H4ns: mr_yogurt: more complete, faster, better interactive development experience etc.
2016-07-30T05:53:46Z H4ns: axion: WOW
2016-07-30T05:54:21Z H4ns: we're talking about "hello world", don't forget that.  you're not going to impress anyone with 17MB if they're looking for 2K
2016-07-30T05:55:01Z mr_yogurt: H4ns: is there anything wrong with developing with sbcl and delivering with ecl?
2016-07-30T05:55:09Z fiddlerwoaroof: I wonder how the image size grows, does it remain level for a while and then increase?
2016-07-30T05:55:17Z H4ns: mr_yogurt: there is nothing wrong with it, no.
2016-07-30T05:56:09Z H4ns: fiddlerwoaroof: the runtime's size is basically constant, so expect your images to grow slowly, depending on how much code you write and how much data you include in your image.
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2016-07-30T06:09:16Z beach: Why is it that ECL has smaller executables?  Is it just that the system has fewer features than (say) SBCL?
2016-07-30T06:12:13Z H4ns: it can compile .lisp to c and then use the system linker, i.e. its library has c entry points iiuc.
2016-07-30T06:13:01Z beach: I guess I can ask jackdaniel for details.
2016-07-30T06:13:12Z H4ns: he if anyone should know.
2016-07-30T06:13:19Z beach: Yeah.
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2016-07-30T06:34:59Z beach: From looking at the web, I understand that the price of a 1TB internal disk is about 100 USD.  That would make the cost per megabyte around 0.0001 USD.  For a 50MB executable, that comes to 0.005 USD.  And 20000 of them will fit on the disk.
2016-07-30T06:38:34Z beach: RAM is a bit more expensive.  It looks like around 100 USD for 16GB.  So that comes to 0.3 USD for 50MB, right?
2016-07-30T06:42:13Z beach: Here is an interesting calculation to be made: Given the total number of copies of Common Lisp executables the world thinks it needs, how much time would it be worth spending to get the size of a Common Lisp executable down to something close to 0?
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2016-07-30T06:44:26Z joga: perhaps it's not that relevant how much it would cost to store
2016-07-30T06:44:52Z joga: but you can't make a 64KB intro with it :p
2016-07-30T06:45:00Z joga: *kB
2016-07-30T06:45:24Z mr_yogurt: i'm having trouble compiling to an executeable with ecl. documentation seems to be saying (compile-file "myfile.lisp" :system-p t) should get me an object file, but it's just giving me a .fasc like (compile-file "myfile.lisp") does.
2016-07-30T06:45:30Z beach: Sure.  What really counts here is the psychological effect.  But I don't know how to evaluate that.
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2016-07-30T06:57:39Z beach: mr_yogurt: So what is YOUR reason for not wanting a 50MB executable?
2016-07-30T06:58:59Z mr_yogurt: tbh no good reason. it just feels wrong to me that printing "hello, world" takes 50mb.
2016-07-30T06:59:18Z beach: But do you typically deliver such simple applications?
2016-07-30T07:00:48Z mr_yogurt: ...i've yet to actually deliver any useful applications. :(
2016-07-30T07:01:49Z mr_yogurt: just a handful of small projects for personal use
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2016-07-30T14:30:25Z phoe: So, guys - someone suggested https://github.com/mabragor/cl-secure-read to me as a way of securing READ.
2016-07-30T14:30:34Z phoe: From what I see it only protects from macro character abuse.
2016-07-30T14:30:49Z phoe: It doesn't address internbombing or excessive input size.
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2016-07-30T14:41:34Z ggole: phoe: seems like you'd want to write your own (wrapper around) intern to achieve that
2016-07-30T14:41:45Z phoe: ggole: I did!
2016-07-30T14:41:50Z phoe: I just need to polish and modularize it.
2016-07-30T14:42:05Z phoe: And not really intern; I actually need to hack around the reader.
2016-07-30T14:42:48Z ggole: How did you approach it? The first thing that comes to mind is that you would "intern" in your own table with a bound on size, and then if it were not too large walk the table to intern for real
2016-07-30T14:43:15Z cromachina: where are you reading from? what symbols do you not want to intern? does the input need to generate complex s-expressions?
2016-07-30T14:43:57Z ggole: (I'm actually not familiar with "internbombing" - the name suggests either huge numbers of symbols or symbols with large names that consume lots of memory.)
2016-07-30T14:44:53Z phoe: ggole: no no, actually.
2016-07-30T14:44:57Z phoe: READ auto-interns, right?
2016-07-30T14:45:11Z ggole: Right.
2016-07-30T14:45:14Z cromachina: and interning creates a new symbol if needed
2016-07-30T14:45:19Z phoe: So just by READing arbitrary input you can blow your stack with interned symbols.
2016-07-30T14:45:27Z H4ns: your stack?
2016-07-30T14:45:28Z cromachina: an attacker can send a1 a2 a3, etc..
2016-07-30T14:45:39Z phoe: Wait.
2016-07-30T14:45:40Z phoe: Your heap.
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2016-07-30T14:45:43Z phoe: Not the stack, right.
2016-07-30T14:45:52Z ggole: Ah, that seems pretty much what I had in mind.
2016-07-30T14:46:16Z phoe: ggole: I approached it threefold.
2016-07-30T14:46:31Z H4ns: using read for untrusted data is calling for problems.
2016-07-30T14:46:40Z phoe: First, there's a NAMED-READTABLE that replaces all macro characters beside #\( #\) #\" with erroring macro chars.
2016-07-30T14:47:19Z phoe: Second, I create a temporary package for each READ and read in it. This way I intern a given number of symbols, then trash the package, which uninterns the symbols and allows them to be GCed.
2016-07-30T14:47:44Z phoe: Third, and unfinished - I need to make sure I never read more than, let's say, 64 kB of sexpression at once.
2016-07-30T14:48:26Z phoe: Fourth, paranoia - any sort of error thrashes the whole read attempt.
2016-07-30T14:49:17Z ggole: I see, there's the bounding.
2016-07-30T14:49:56Z cromachina: how is the read initiated?
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2016-07-30T14:50:19Z phoe: cromachina: I actually found that READ is not what I want because of the way it treats non-terminating macro characters.
2016-07-30T14:50:20Z ggole: What about package-qualified symbols?
2016-07-30T14:50:34Z phoe: ggole: that's the point.
2016-07-30T14:50:37Z ggole: They won't read into your prepared sandbox package, right?
2016-07-30T14:50:47Z phoe: I make : a macro character that errors out.
2016-07-30T14:50:54Z ggole: Ah.
2016-07-30T14:50:55Z phoe: The thing is, READ doesn't fire up the macro character function.
2016-07-30T14:51:04Z phoe: I need to hack around and use READ-DELIMITED-LIST.
2016-07-30T14:51:20Z phoe: Which triggers the error function of #\:.
2016-07-30T14:51:34Z phoe: Crazy, but seems to do the trick.
2016-07-30T14:51:45Z cromachina: i mean, are you reading some command over a socket? like "read <size-of-input> <sexps>"
2016-07-30T14:51:54Z H4ns: why don't you just write or use a secure reader?  it seems to be the wrong approach to try making the existing reader secure.  nobody will ever be able to audit that.
2016-07-30T14:52:17Z ggole: Depends on how much of the Lisp read syntax you want, I suppose
2016-07-30T14:52:30Z phoe: cromachina: all I want are sexpressions that contain lists, symbols, integers and strings.
2016-07-30T14:52:47Z H4ns: write a reader that can read lists, symbols, integers and strings then.
2016-07-30T14:52:49Z phoe: H4ns: I've considered it, but the hacks I can use so far seem to work.
2016-07-30T14:52:58Z phoe: And I'm lazy.
2016-07-30T14:53:35Z cromachina: lazy is bad for security lol
2016-07-30T14:53:36Z H4ns: lazy and secure are two things that hardly blend.
2016-07-30T14:53:47Z H4ns: cromachina: *5*
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2016-07-30T16:30:45Z phoe: H4ns: cromachina: https://github.com/phoe-krk/secure-read
2016-07-30T16:30:46Z phoe: welp
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2016-07-30T16:33:41Z phoe: still buggy
2016-07-30T16:33:44Z phoe: but you can see the idea
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2016-07-30T17:03:48Z fiddlerwoaroof: Hmm, yason seems to run into trouble when parsing from a socket stream
2016-07-30T17:04:02Z fiddlerwoaroof: it parses objects, booleans and arrays just fine
2016-07-30T17:04:18Z fiddlerwoaroof: But when I try to send an integer, I get a lookahead error.
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2016-07-30T17:08:39Z H4ns: fiddlerwoaroof: "lookahead error"?  can you paste the complete error message to paste.lisp.org?
2016-07-30T17:08:43Z fiddlerwoaroof: ok
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2016-07-30T17:14:47Z fiddlerwoaroof: So, flexi-streams is actually reporting the error, but it looks like yason is expecting some stream operation that is not supported
2016-07-30T17:14:49Z fiddlerwoaroof: http://paste.lisp.org/+6W8F
2016-07-30T17:15:57Z fiddlerwoaroof: The input from the socket there was the number 1
2016-07-30T17:19:45Z H4ns: that's something which i'm not really inclined to fix inside of yason, as that'd require it to wrap all its streams to make sure they can be rewound.  if you need this to work, you'll probably have to wrap your socket stream in a buffering stream.
2016-07-30T17:20:02Z H4ns: sorry, i don't have a solution that you could just use.
2016-07-30T17:20:42Z fiddlerwoaroof: No problem, I suppose it can't be fixed by changing the parser because the parser can't tell whether the number's done yet?
2016-07-30T17:22:21Z H4ns: yes.  it is using peek-char all over.
2016-07-30T17:23:04Z H4ns: i have a faint remembrance of a stream class that provided one character lookback, but it could be that i implemented that myself back then.
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2016-07-30T18:14:06Z phoe: (check-type 3 integer)
2016-07-30T18:14:13Z phoe: This produces weird comment outputs on SBCL for me
2016-07-30T18:14:50Z phoe: http://paste.lisp.org/display/321718
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2016-07-30T18:15:58Z Bike: that's because the first argument of check-type is a place
2016-07-30T18:16:00Z Bike: 3 is not a place
2016-07-30T18:16:28Z impaktor: phoe: eldoc-mode, really nifty.
2016-07-30T18:17:26Z phoe: impaktor: ?
2016-07-30T18:17:44Z phoe: Oh wait.
2016-07-30T18:17:46Z phoe: 3 is not a place.
2016-07-30T18:17:48Z phoe: Right.
2016-07-30T18:18:12Z Bike: because check-type errors offer a use-value restart
2016-07-30T18:18:48Z impaktor: phoe: if you have eldoc-mode on when typing check-type you'll see that the first argument is place.
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2016-07-30T18:19:07Z impaktor: ...assuming you're using emacs.
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2016-07-30T18:19:49Z phoe: impaktor: yes yes.
2016-07-30T18:20:07Z phoe: I just derped for a moment and copied that bit of code from a code file without looking at the bottom.
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2016-07-30T18:23:30Z phoe: Hum.
2016-07-30T18:23:53Z phoe: I might either end up pushing one more commit to BORDEAUX-THREADS or make a workaround for the functionality I want.
2016-07-30T18:24:41Z phoe: The macro WITH-LOCK-HELD ((PLACE) &BODY BODY) can have its lambda-list expanded into ((PLACE &OPTIONAL WAIT-P) &BODY BODY) while maintaining backwards compatibility.
2016-07-30T18:25:07Z Bike: maybe make it a &key.
2016-07-30T18:25:26Z phoe: Bike: good idea.
2016-07-30T18:25:42Z phoe: But then, uh.
2016-07-30T18:26:02Z phoe: Would be inconsistent. ACQUIRE-LOCK has a (LOCK &OPTIONAL WAIT-P) llist.
2016-07-30T18:26:11Z Bike: oh.
2016-07-30T18:26:35Z phoe: So not so good when put in context.
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2016-07-30T18:39:09Z libreman: Can somebody help me with debugging in slime and caveman2? Because tracing a function makes it trace output go to the *inferior-lisp* buffer in emacs, and stepping a function does not seem to work at all. This behaviour only happens when I send a request to the webserver, not if I call functions form the repl.
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2016-07-30T18:50:27Z Bike: stepping is something in the implementation, and the implementation might just not care about having a good stepper
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2016-07-30T18:59:40Z libreman: Bike: I'm using sbcl and stepping does work outside of caveman.
2016-07-30T19:00:47Z Bike: what are the optimize settings on caveman? you need debug > the rest for stepping to happen
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2016-07-30T19:03:35Z libreman: I execute this before loading my caveman project: (declaim (optimize (speed 0) (safety 2) (debug 3)))
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2016-07-30T19:20:21Z jdz: is caveman using threads?
2016-07-30T19:20:37Z jdz: you could try without threads while debugging
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2016-07-30T19:26:08Z libreman: No that does not change anything. Trace information still ends up in the wrong buffer and step does not seem to do anything
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2016-07-30T19:57:40Z phoe: Is there some way to print keywords as normal symbols, without their : prefix?
2016-07-30T19:58:21Z Grue`: (print (symbol-name :foo))
2016-07-30T19:59:23Z phoe: Gotcha. Thanks.
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2016-07-30T20:05:40Z knobo: Which eval-when should I use to make sure a form is evaluated when I start a saved lisp image?
2016-07-30T20:06:12Z knobo: Maybe I have to add it to an init function?
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2016-07-30T20:12:30Z Grue`: loading a saved lisp image doesn't reload the code. so eval-when can't possibly do anything when an image is loaded
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2016-07-30T20:15:43Z phoe: CASE labels are compared using EQ?
2016-07-30T20:15:48Z phoe: Or EQL?
2016-07-30T20:16:02Z Grue`: eql
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2016-07-30T20:16:20Z phoe: With no way to change it other than defining a custom CASE?
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2016-07-30T20:19:19Z Grue`: I guess not...
2016-07-30T20:19:51Z cromachina: if you want more relaxed comparison, then optima might help
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2016-07-30T20:20:30Z Grue`: I thought alexandria had something, but its destructuring-case also only uses EQL
2016-07-30T20:20:31Z phoe: cromachina: I need STRING=
2016-07-30T20:21:00Z Bike: there's a string-case in quicklisp
2016-07-30T20:21:08Z cromachina: optimization requirement?
2016-07-30T20:21:13Z phoe: Bike: !
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2016-07-30T20:22:33Z cromachina: alexandria also has switch
2016-07-30T20:23:57Z cromachina: (alexandria:switch ("hello" :test #'string=) ("hello" 1) (t 2))
2016-07-30T20:24:17Z phoe: oh holy hell.
2016-07-30T20:24:28Z Grue`: oh, that must be what I was thinking of
2016-07-30T20:24:28Z phoe: string-case is pretty powerful - but it's not what I need.
2016-07-30T20:24:34Z phoe: I need STRING= to compare symbols.
2016-07-30T20:24:54Z phoe: As in - I have uninterned symbols.
2016-07-30T20:25:08Z phoe: And the only way to properly compare them with anything else is through STRING=.
2016-07-30T20:25:08Z cromachina: would switch not work?
2016-07-30T20:25:08Z Grue`: I was about to say, EQL compares symbols already
2016-07-30T20:25:24Z phoe: Grue`: yes, but not when it comes to different uninterned symbols.
2016-07-30T20:25:33Z phoe: (eql (make-symbol "A") (make-symbol "A"))
2016-07-30T20:26:06Z Grue`: maybe you should just intern them when you're making them
2016-07-30T20:27:10Z phoe: This would drop my internbombing protection.
2016-07-30T20:27:16Z phoe: They come from the evil outside world.
2016-07-30T20:28:05Z phoe: Sigh. I'll just hack together a simple macro to turn this into a COND with STRING=.
2016-07-30T20:28:36Z cromachina: phoe: did you see my suggestion above?
2016-07-30T20:28:38Z Grue`: alexandria:switch is exactly what you want
2016-07-30T20:28:46Z phoe: cromachina: !
2016-07-30T20:28:54Z phoe: I didn't know you meant something from Alexandria.
2016-07-30T20:29:05Z cromachina: lol
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2016-07-30T20:31:36Z phoe: Good! It helped.
2016-07-30T20:31:45Z phoe: Now only to dig up a string=-getf.
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2016-07-30T20:32:43Z phoe: Found it. Piles of old unused code do pay well.
2016-07-30T20:33:43Z knobo: Grue`: ok.
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2016-07-30T20:56:37Z knobo: loke: sbcl does not save foreign memory.
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2016-07-30T21:24:55Z fiddlerwoaroof: phoe: could you intern them temporarily and then unintern via unwind-protect?
2016-07-30T21:25:13Z fiddlerwoaroof: That might be crazy, but it also might be faster
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2016-07-30T21:37:25Z phoe: fiddlerwoaroof: actually
2016-07-30T21:37:33Z phoe: I don't know
2016-07-30T21:38:12Z fiddlerwoaroof: If you quarantined this to a specific package, it shouldn't really affect too much
2016-07-30T21:38:23Z phoe: fiddlerwoaroof: faster?
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2016-07-30T21:39:07Z phoe: the only difference here is deleting package vs uninterning all symbols
2016-07-30T21:39:12Z fiddlerwoaroof: Doesn't string= have to iterate through both strings while eql just compares the symbol's identity?
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2016-07-30T21:39:27Z phoe: fiddlerwoaroof: t
2016-07-30T21:39:49Z phoe: but the thing is - I'd need to maintain a list of symbols I don't want to unintern
2016-07-30T21:39:56Z phoe: this would increase complexity.
2016-07-30T21:40:02Z phoe: and the solution I have now works.
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2016-07-30T21:40:09Z fiddlerwoaroof: so, if there's lots of equality checking, something like (progn (mapcar #'intern symbols) (unwind-protect (do-something symbols) (mapcar #'unintern symbols))
2016-07-30T21:40:13Z phoe: the moment I need optimization - I'll be sure to hit you folks up.
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2016-07-30T21:40:44Z fiddlerwoaroof: If all the symbols to be uninterned were interned into a TMP-SYMBOLS package you wouldn't need to explicitly deal with that
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2016-07-30T21:41:06Z phoe: fiddlerwoaroof: I can't EQL symbols from TMP-SYMBOLS and a different package.
2016-07-30T21:41:18Z phoe: and the symbols from different package are certainly not something I'd like to unintern.
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2016-07-30T21:42:02Z fiddlerwoaroof: If this is a reader, can't you decide where to intern the symbols read by the reader? Or, do you want your reader to support packages?
2016-07-30T21:42:07Z phoe: No.
2016-07-30T21:42:16Z phoe: I want my reader to be safe.
2016-07-30T21:42:44Z phoe: I have data structures like (#:STRUCTURE #:A 1 #:B 2 #:C 3).
2016-07-30T21:42:56Z phoe: When I read this, I want to intern *nothing* for good.
2016-07-30T21:43:02Z phoe: Because this comes from the outside.
2016-07-30T21:43:31Z phoe: Once I read this, I want to be able to STRING=-GETF something under key #:B.
2016-07-30T21:43:38Z phoe: That's why STRING=-GETF.
2016-07-30T21:43:43Z phoe: So that
2016-07-30T21:43:49Z phoe: 's how I get the value 2, in this case.
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2016-07-30T21:44:58Z phoe: Interning all the symbols changes absolutely nothing for me because this does not change anything when it comes to comparing them.
2016-07-30T21:46:28Z fiddlerwoaroof: Yeah, I don't think your use case fits the idea I had
2016-07-30T21:46:33Z phoe: Ayup.
2016-07-30T21:46:49Z phoe: I need to use STRING= because it's the only thing I can do over here.
2016-07-30T21:47:02Z fiddlerwoaroof: I was thinking if you had to do something complicated involving lots of string comparisons, it might make sense to temporarily intern things around the operation
2016-07-30T21:47:46Z Bike: loop for (key value) on (cdr struct) by #'cddr when (string= key test-key) do (return value), notsobad
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2016-07-30T21:48:58Z phoe: Bike: nothing complicated.
2016-07-30T21:49:11Z phoe: Bike: I already have string=-getf, thanks
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2016-07-30T22:30:36Z dfigrish: hi
2016-07-30T22:31:29Z phoe: Hay
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2016-07-30T22:35:27Z dfigrish: execuse me, but cffi is already 0.17.1, hunchentoot - 1.2.35 etc :)
2016-07-30T22:38:51Z Bike: it's op-only topic now, so... i guess wait
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2016-07-30T22:39:48Z dfigrish: Bike: why it's op-only *now*?
2016-07-30T22:40:21Z Bike: i think someone put racial slurs in the topic? i don't remember. something like that
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2016-07-30T22:41:08Z dfigrish: ugh
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2016-07-30T22:52:15Z phoe: we need an operator over here
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2016-07-30T23:00:40Z edgar-rft: phoe: I've heard that Lisp has special operators.
2016-07-30T23:01:32Z phoe: edgar-rft: does #lisp have special operators!?
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2016-07-30T23:05:34Z dfigrish: o_O
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2016-07-30T23:13:32Z John[Lisbeth]: I want to take a function or a macro and a list and preform the function/macro on each item in the list
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2016-07-30T23:14:46Z axion: mapcar?
2016-07-30T23:14:55Z Polyphony: (mapcar #'function list) should do
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2016-07-30T23:17:20Z John[Lisbeth]: what does #'symbol evaluate to?
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2016-07-30T23:18:20Z Polyphony: #'+ evaluates into #<FUNCTION +> in SBCL
2016-07-30T23:18:37Z John[Lisbeth]: I can't write it as prefix notation?
2016-07-30T23:19:16Z Polyphony: No I think you'll have to (funcall #'+ 1 2)
2016-07-30T23:19:18Z Polyphony: for example
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2016-07-30T23:21:09Z axion: What do you mean by prefix notation?
2016-07-30T23:21:33Z Polyphony: I think he was asking if he could (#'+ 1 2) instead of (funcall #'+ 1 2)
2016-07-30T23:23:47Z edgar-rft: you can write (mapcar (function <symbol>) lisp) if that is prefix enough
2016-07-30T23:23:50Z John[Lisbeth]: I want to do the equivelant of (quote 1 2 3) for '(1 2 3)
2016-07-30T23:24:16Z John[Lisbeth]: function is the function I need
2016-07-30T23:24:42Z edgar-rft: #'<symbol> == (function <symbol>)
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2016-07-30T23:25:48Z John[Lisbeth]: t
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2016-07-30T23:42:12Z John[Lisbeth]: chrome fixed my pdf reader so I am reading gentle again
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