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I can't make B load before A because B depends on packages defined in A. 2016-07-27T00:26:09Z the_signalman quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-07-27T00:26:55Z milanj quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2016-07-27T00:26:56Z spacebat`: in emacs, I'd break this with eval-after-load, but I don't think CL has such hooks, though they are implementable with advice I guess 2016-07-27T00:26:57Z brendyn joined #lisp 2016-07-27T00:27:34Z pillton: What does emacs have to do with the circular dependency? 2016-07-27T00:27:48Z Bike: emacs has a system that they could use to fix this 2016-07-27T00:27:57Z spacebat`: I'm just saying that when I run into load circularity in elisp, I reach for eval-after-load 2016-07-27T00:28:25Z Bike: you would do, what, (with-eval-after-load "B" (load a-patches))? 2016-07-27T00:28:59Z John[Lisbeth] quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-07-27T00:29:09Z spacebat`: inside A-patches (eval-after-load "B" '(progn (problematic-forms))) 2016-07-27T00:29:33Z spacebat`: I can split up A-patches so there is an A-patches-later which I explicitly load after B 2016-07-27T00:30:30Z spacebat`: I was just wondering if there is some facility akin to eval-after-load in CL for breaking circularity in a convenient way 2016-07-27T00:30:36Z John[Lisbeth] joined #lisp 2016-07-27T00:30:58Z Bike: well, it would be in asdf somewhere, since CL proper doesn't have libraries 2016-07-27T00:31:37Z didi joined #lisp 2016-07-27T00:32:02Z Bike: i don't know how, having never run into this, but asdf is huge enough that there is something somewhere, or if not you can subclass some stuff and work it in. i know that's not very helpful, sorry. 2016-07-27T00:32:18Z didi: Could someone help me understand this SBCL's error message: https://paste.debian.net/hidden/def8f541 I think I still had memory available. 2016-07-27T00:32:44Z Bike: evidently not! 2016-07-27T00:32:50Z spacebat`: I forgot to mention that these are lispworks defsystems, and A is the system that loads all the 3rd party libs via ASDF 2016-07-27T00:32:59Z johndau joined #lisp 2016-07-27T00:33:04Z spacebat`: but yeah Il 2016-07-27T00:33:11Z Bike: check defsystem docs, then 2016-07-27T00:33:16Z spacebat`: I'll look into the systems docs 2016-07-27T00:33:21Z spacebat`: thanks anyway 2016-07-27T00:33:37Z Bike: didi: sbcl does not just use the entirety of RAM 2016-07-27T00:33:56Z pillton: You have to use the --dynamic-space-size argument. 2016-07-27T00:34:01Z didi: I did! 2016-07-27T00:34:08Z Bike: didi: because of how sbcl arranges memory, it reserves it all at startup, and you can change the size with dynamic-space-size 2016-07-27T00:34:14Z Bike: didi: well, you didn't reserve enough, i guess 2016-07-27T00:34:20Z didi: Look at Total bytes allocated against Dynamic-space-size bytes. 2016-07-27T00:34:31Z didi: There almost half still available. 2016-07-27T00:35:27Z pillton: The first line indicates otherwise. 2016-07-27T00:35:33Z didi: Indeed. 2016-07-27T00:35:36Z didi: So I don't get it. 2016-07-27T00:35:42Z Bike: some weirdness in reporting. maybe ask #sbcl. 2016-07-27T00:36:00Z didi: I will, thank you. 2016-07-27T00:36:03Z John[Lisbeth] quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-07-27T00:36:16Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-07-27T00:36:36Z Bike: you have 125 GB of memory? 2016-07-27T00:36:48Z pillton: The table could do with some formatting patches. 2016-07-27T00:37:00Z didi: Bike: I reserved 120 k, yes. 2016-07-27T00:37:16Z Bike: kilokilokilobytes 2016-07-27T00:37:27Z didi: 120 GB, yes. 2016-07-27T00:38:14Z spacebat`: I'd hate to wait out the GC pause on a messy 120GB heap 2016-07-27T00:38:53Z pillton: Did you request a 34G continuous block? 2016-07-27T00:38:56Z John[Lisbeth] joined #lisp 2016-07-27T00:38:58Z Petit_Dejeuner: Defragmenting RAM 2016-07-27T00:39:35Z didi: pillton: This was my sbcl call: sbcl --dynamic-space-size 120000 --control-stack-size 1024 2016-07-27T00:39:59Z moei joined #lisp 2016-07-27T00:41:27Z pillton: didi: I don't know how to help sorry. I joined #sbcl to learn from the responses to your question. 2016-07-27T00:41:43Z didi: pillton: Oh, OK. Thank you anyway. 2016-07-27T00:41:54Z Bike: just surprised me how much memory you have, heh. 2016-07-27T00:42:18Z didi: Memoization ftw 2016-07-27T00:42:33Z pillton: I normally just keep increasing dynamic space size until it works. I've never worked worth 120G of RAM though so you might run in to other issues e.g. contiguous memory limits. 2016-07-27T00:42:43Z didi: oic 2016-07-27T00:42:48Z Bike: what does memoization have to do with memory 2016-07-27T00:42:53Z pillton: I don't know if they exist though. 2016-07-27T00:43:22Z didi: Bike: Everything. Memorization eats memory at breakfast. 2016-07-27T00:43:33Z Bike: no, i mean, that wouldn't /give/ you memory or anything 2016-07-27T00:43:45Z didi: Right right. 2016-07-27T00:43:48Z Bike: pillton might be right, too, you apparently tried to allocate a 34 GB object 2016-07-27T00:43:59Z didi: I didn't tho. 2016-07-27T00:44:03Z didi: SBCL did. 2016-07-27T00:44:15Z Bike: at your request, one hopes 2016-07-27T00:44:25Z didi: I doubt it. At least, not directly. 2016-07-27T00:44:31Z John[Lisbeth] quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-07-27T00:45:11Z didi: The only memory intensive usage in my program is the hash table for the memoization. 2016-07-27T00:45:23Z didi: At it grows step by step. 2016-07-27T00:45:28Z Bike: how many entries does it get? 2016-07-27T00:45:37Z Bike: like, ballpark. 2016-07-27T00:45:37Z pillton: Have you got a 64 bit memory controller? 2016-07-27T00:45:48Z didi: pillton: Hum. Good question. 2016-07-27T00:46:12Z didi: Bike: I dunno. 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2016-07-27T01:34:01Z Sucks joined #lisp 2016-07-27T01:34:51Z akkad would love a use case where you would have that much gc going on at once 2016-07-27T01:34:55Z Sucks quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2016-07-27T01:36:55Z brandonz joined #lisp 2016-07-27T01:36:57Z johndau quit (Quit: johndau) 2016-07-27T01:37:13Z adolf_stalin joined #lisp 2016-07-27T01:37:54Z John[Lisbeth] quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-07-27T01:38:07Z Sucks joined #lisp 2016-07-27T01:40:37Z akkad: ,clhs define-alien-type 2016-07-27T01:40:45Z akkad: clhs define-alien-type 2016-07-27T01:40:45Z specbot: Couldn't find anything for define-alien-type. 2016-07-27T01:41:18Z John[Lisbeth] joined #lisp 2016-07-27T01:41:34Z Bike: that is not standard 2016-07-27T01:42:06Z Bike: it's in sb-alien, though 2016-07-27T01:45:14Z defaultxr joined #lisp 2016-07-27T01:46:05Z Trystam quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-07-27T01:46:57Z John[Lisbeth] quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-07-27T01:49:16Z John[Lisbeth] joined #lisp 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2016-07-27T13:52:49Z gargaml joined #lisp 2016-07-27T13:54:04Z oleo joined #lisp 2016-07-27T13:54:18Z gargaml: hi 2016-07-27T13:54:29Z dlowe: hi, gargaml 2016-07-27T13:54:45Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-07-27T13:54:50Z gargaml: I'm trying to use caveman to do some tests 2016-07-27T13:54:59Z narendraj9 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-07-27T13:55:37Z gargaml: and in the file config.lisp I can see some expressions like #.(package-name *package*) 2016-07-27T13:55:46Z gargaml: what's the purpose of #. ? 2016-07-27T13:56:01Z gargaml: (I can't find any document about this) 2016-07-27T13:56:11Z dlowe: clhs #. 2016-07-27T13:56:11Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhf.htm 2016-07-27T13:56:58Z dlowe: while reading the file, it evaluates the expression and places the result verbatim into the stream 2016-07-27T13:57:41Z dlowe: basically, #.(package-name *package*) evaluates the current package name at load time instead of runtime (or compile time) 2016-07-27T13:57:52Z optikalmouse joined #lisp 2016-07-27T13:58:16Z gargaml: oh this explains why (macroexpand-1 '#.(max 1 2 3)) returns 3… 2016-07-27T13:58:28Z gargaml: thanks :-) 2016-07-27T13:59:12Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-07-27T13:59:30Z papachan` quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-07-27T13:59:48Z gilez joined #lisp 2016-07-27T13:59:50Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-07-27T14:00:44Z moore33: dlowe: I think you mean it's done at load time if the file is interpreted, and at compile time if the file is compiled. 2016-07-27T14:01:59Z gargaml: and is there a way to find this page without going through the channel bot ? 2016-07-27T14:02:24Z gargaml: (would be great with a slime trick) 2016-07-27T14:02:32Z dlowe: http://l1sp.org/ 2016-07-27T14:02:42Z dlowe: there's a hyperspec lookup in emacs 2016-07-27T14:02:53Z dlowe: If you're using debian, you can even apt-get install hyperspec 2016-07-27T14:05:00Z gargaml: the hyperspec lookup doesn't seem to find it on my system (I may need to configure it a bit more) 2016-07-27T14:05:16Z gargaml: I'll try this package thanks 2016-07-27T14:06:47Z jdz: it's on C-c C-d # for we 2016-07-27T14:06:49Z jdz: me 2016-07-27T14:07:05Z jdz: like, C-c C-d # . 2016-07-27T14:07:16Z dlowe: the key combo is so impossible I never end up using it :p 2016-07-27T14:07:27Z dlowe: I could rebind it but uuuuuh the effort 2016-07-27T14:08:15Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-07-27T14:08:30Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-07-27T14:08:38Z luis: dlowe: re #., when you say "verbatim", that implies that it's a textual thing. It's not, right? 2016-07-27T14:09:01Z dlowe: I don't think that's implied at all, but no, it's not. 2016-07-27T14:09:16Z mishoo joined #lisp 2016-07-27T14:09:23Z pierpa: #. evaluates at *READ* time, not load 2016-07-27T14:09:46Z gargaml: jdz: ok there is a specific search for reader macro 2016-07-27T14:09:56Z gargaml: great :-) 2016-07-27T14:10:11Z luis: Hmm, OK. Anyway, I think READ-FROM-STRING is a good way to experiment with this sort of thing. (read-from-string "(+ 1 1)") => (+ 1 1), and (read-from-string "#.(+ 1 1)") => 2 2016-07-27T14:10:42Z DavidGu quit (Quit: DavidGu) 2016-07-27T14:10:57Z papachan` joined #lisp 2016-07-27T14:11:08Z jdz: gargaml: there's also one for format directives (under C-c C-d ~). you might want to use emacs help facility to discover these things: C-c C-d C-h 2016-07-27T14:11:29Z Grue``: damn, I've been only using C-c C-d h all this time 2016-07-27T14:11:32Z pierpa: luis: depending on the value of *READ-EVAL* 2016-07-27T14:11:54Z Grue``: I always have to go to FORMAT then click Formatted Output then one of the subarticles... 2016-07-27T14:12:29Z gargaml: jdz: I thought there was only C-c C-c C-d 2016-07-27T14:12:30Z luis: pierpa: true! 2016-07-27T14:12:33Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-07-27T14:13:27Z jdz: gargaml: did you mean C-c C-d C-d? or you might have your own custom binding. 2016-07-27T14:14:13Z jdz: another good thing to explore is: C-h m 2016-07-27T14:15:03Z gargaml: jdz: you're right 2016-07-27T14:17:45Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-07-27T14:17:59Z ym joined #lisp 2016-07-27T14:19:48Z lexicall joined #lisp 2016-07-27T14:20:43Z dyelar joined #lisp 2016-07-27T14:21:59Z lexicall: Hi, I want to print strings without the double quotation, but leaves the other special characters, like backslash, which function should I be using? The PRINC function always get my backslashes ruined. 2016-07-27T14:22:12Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-07-27T14:22:49Z warweasle left #lisp 2016-07-27T14:23:55Z Grue``: PRINC prints exactly what the string contains. you're probably confused about your strings having backslashes when they in fact don't 2016-07-27T14:24:51Z lexicall: Oops, really? Then how can i write a string like "hello\world"? 2016-07-27T14:25:32Z Grue``: "hello\\world" 2016-07-27T14:25:55Z Grue``: double backslash is read as a single backslash 2016-07-27T14:26:11Z flamebeard quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-07-27T14:26:16Z harish_ joined #lisp 2016-07-27T14:26:56Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-07-27T14:26:56Z lexicall: well i need to read strings from files, and i write "hello\world" in that file. in this case, is the backslash read in as double backslash? 2016-07-27T14:27:05Z Grue``: it's not unique to Lisp, in every language strings have some sort of escape character so that it's possible to write a string that contains the quote character 2016-07-27T14:27:38Z Grue``: lexicall: no, if you read from file using (read-line) or something, it would read exactly what's in the file 2016-07-27T14:28:28Z lexicall: hmm.. that's been a little tricky 2016-07-27T14:29:01Z Grue``: I just realized that the word "read" is ambiguous in this case... there's a "reader" which reads your code, but there are also ways to read data 2016-07-27T14:29:27Z lexicall: fine, and i just need to read the file as data. 2016-07-27T14:29:33Z lexicall: not the lisp reader. 2016-07-27T14:30:47Z Grue``: http://cl-cookbook.sourceforge.net/files.html#line 2016-07-27T14:30:52Z Grue``: something like that 2016-07-27T14:31:10Z pierpa: the difference is between reading lisp expressions and reading lines of text / characters 2016-07-27T14:31:32Z pierpa: you do the first with READ, the second with READ-LINE 2016-07-27T14:32:00Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-07-27T14:32:03Z lexicall: cool, exactly. thank you both! 2016-07-27T14:32:59Z lexicall: ok, i tried the read-line and it automatically doubles that backslash. cool. 2016-07-27T14:33:25Z pierpa: it does not double any backslash :) 2016-07-27T14:33:33Z Grue``: it doesn't double anything, when you PRINT the string the backslash is doubled 2016-07-27T14:33:36Z lexicall: i know that XD 2016-07-27T14:33:42Z pierpa: it's the printer that doubles it when it prints it in the repl 2016-07-27T14:33:52Z warweasle joined #lisp 2016-07-27T14:34:02Z warweasle is now known as warweasle_lab 2016-07-27T14:34:10Z lexicall: yep, got it! 2016-07-27T14:34:42Z schoppenhauer joined #lisp 2016-07-27T14:35:34Z kobain joined #lisp 2016-07-27T14:35:57Z jdz: lexicall: try using PRINC instead of PRINT 2016-07-27T14:36:10Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-07-27T14:36:56Z jdz: or call PRINC on the form you're evaluating if you were not using PRINT 2016-07-27T14:37:18Z lexicall: jdz: I know it's wearing the double quotations. what else shouldn't i be using it? 2016-07-27T14:39:38Z jdz: lexicall: i don't think i understand your question... 2016-07-27T14:40:05Z jdz: clhs princ 2016-07-27T14:40:05Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_wr_pr.htm 2016-07-27T14:40:33Z jdz: lexicall: just read the paragraph on PRINC 2016-07-27T14:40:33Z lexicall: jdz: hmm, i just don't understand why you are convincing me not to use the PRINT. the only reason i know is that PRINT prints the double-quotation. and i don't know other reasons. 2016-07-27T14:40:39Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-07-27T14:40:39Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-07-27T14:40:45Z lexicall: ok 2016-07-27T14:43:42Z lexicall: oh i know that their differences is on the *print-escape*, and PRINT also prints a newline. 2016-07-27T14:44:03Z lexicall: it recommends to use PRINT if we want to read them back. 2016-07-27T14:45:13Z jdz: lexicall: it's all about what _you_ need 2016-07-27T14:45:26Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-07-27T14:45:31Z lexicall: jdz: sure. thanks 2016-07-27T14:50:12Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-07-27T14:50:26Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-07-27T14:54:13Z MrMc joined #lisp 2016-07-27T14:54:38Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-07-27T14:56:43Z milanj quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2016-07-27T14:58:29Z MrMc quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.0.94.2)) 2016-07-27T14:58:32Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-07-27T14:59:08Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-07-27T15:03:29Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-07-27T15:04:05Z tharugrim quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5) 2016-07-27T15:04:11Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-07-27T15:07:55Z Denommus joined #lisp 2016-07-27T15:08:42Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-07-27T15:09:46Z burtons joined #lisp 2016-07-27T15:10:14Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-07-27T15:12:55Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-07-27T15:14:37Z lexicall quit (Quit: Ah, my macbook is gonna sleep!) 2016-07-27T15:19:39Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-07-27T15:20:22Z Denommus quit (Quit: going away) 2016-07-27T15:21:04Z unrahul joined #lisp 2016-07-27T15:21:24Z pierpa quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-07-27T15:23:28Z groovy2shoes quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-07-27T15:26:26Z IPmonger quit (Quit: ZNC 1.6.3 - http://znc.in) 2016-07-27T15:26:38Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-07-27T15:32:14Z ikki quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-07-27T15:32:29Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-07-27T15:33:30Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-07-27T15:36:00Z mastokley joined #lisp 2016-07-27T15:37:00Z przl joined #lisp 2016-07-27T15:40:13Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-07-27T15:40:15Z copec quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-07-27T15:41:07Z akersof joined #lisp 2016-07-27T15:41:28Z akersof quit (Client Quit) 2016-07-27T15:41:40Z strelox joined #lisp 2016-07-27T15:43:20Z mastokley quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-07-27T15:45:02Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-07-27T15:46:46Z copec joined #lisp 2016-07-27T15:48:17Z gavilancomun quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.92 [Firefox 47.0.1/20160623154057]) 2016-07-27T15:49:16Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-07-27T15:50:07Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-07-27T15:50:53Z francogrex joined #lisp 2016-07-27T15:51:16Z francogrex: hi I am having a little difficulties with embedded hash-tables: http://paste.lisp.org/display/321503 2016-07-27T15:51:34Z francogrex: could someone help with an elegant solution to this? 2016-07-27T15:53:42Z varjag quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2016-07-27T15:54:06Z jdz: francogrex: you never update the internal hash table 2016-07-27T15:54:37Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-07-27T15:56:11Z milanj joined #lisp 2016-07-27T15:56:46Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-07-27T15:58:50Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-07-27T15:58:55Z francogrex: jdz: (setf (nth 3 tempv) n) ... I know tempv is nothing 2016-07-27T15:59:11Z quasus joined #lisp 2016-07-27T15:59:21Z jdz: francogrex: yes, you update the list, but that list is never stored in the hashtable 2016-07-27T16:01:10Z jdz: also, you're creating that list of 4 zeroes on every iteration even if a value is already stored (once you start doing it) in the hashtable 2016-07-27T16:01:30Z jdz: i'd suggest using both return values of GETHASH 2016-07-27T16:03:25Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2016-07-27T16:08:02Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-07-27T16:08:27Z francogrex: ok yes: jdz: http://paste.lisp.org/display/321503#1 this? it seems ok 2016-07-27T16:12:27Z francogrex: jdz: though this "you're creating that list of 4 zeroes on every iteration even if a value is already stored" I am not sure you are correct in that statement there 2016-07-27T16:12:46Z warweasle_lab is now known as warweasle 2016-07-27T16:15:09Z francogrex quit (Quit: Page closed) 2016-07-27T16:17:15Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-07-27T16:18:14Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-07-27T16:18:28Z jdz: francogrex: if you come back: http://paste.lisp.org/display/321503#2 (still ugly, but should at least work) 2016-07-27T16:18:47Z NeverDie joined #lisp 2016-07-27T16:20:06Z jdz: more like http://paste.lisp.org/display/321503#3 2016-07-27T16:20:09Z Grue``: I find stuff like (nth 3 ...) a terrible code smell. probably should be a struct at this point 2016-07-27T16:20:44Z gargaml left #lisp 2016-07-27T16:21:38Z jdz: i agree 2016-07-27T16:22:38Z burtons quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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having some trouble with the type system. Almost certainly a newbie question, but I've got a list I want to convert to chars, from strings 2016-07-27T18:50:29Z Karunamon: I'm trying to do a mapchar like (mapchar #'(lambda (x) 'coerce x 'char) (list "a" "b" "c")), but this is just giving me back a list with (CHAR CHAR CHAR) 2016-07-27T18:50:39Z pjb joined #lisp 2016-07-27T18:51:13Z H4ns: Karunamon: as expected. 2016-07-27T18:51:31Z Karunamon: So i'm clearly doing something dumb. What would that be? 2016-07-27T18:51:34Z H4ns: Karunamon: (lambda (x) 'coerce x 'char) will return 'char for all values of x 2016-07-27T18:52:00Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-07-27T18:52:09Z H4ns: Karunamon: if you want to evaluate coerce, you need to place it into the function position of an s-expressen like so: (coerce x 'char) 2016-07-27T18:52:31Z H4ns: Karunamon: what do you use to lean lisp? 2016-07-27T18:52:59Z H4ns: learn 2016-07-27T18:53:00Z Karunamon: The Practical Common Lisp book, and a copy of emacs 2016-07-27T18:53:12Z Karunamon: (set up with SLIME and sbcl) 2016-07-27T18:53:30Z H4ns: that is a good setup, but somehow, the book got you rather mislead it seems. 2016-07-27T18:53:39Z H4ns: anyway, what i wrote holds. 2016-07-27T18:54:03Z Karunamon: Well, i'm not all the way through yet. In specific, when I want to do something on my own, I'm having a heck of a time making sense of things like the hyperref 2016-07-27T18:54:18Z H4ns: hyperspec is what you probably mean 2016-07-27T18:54:30Z Karunamon: yes, that. 2016-07-27T18:54:57Z jasom: Karunamon: what you wrote was a lambda that evaluated the following 3 expressions (and returned the result of the last): 'coerce, x, 'char; this means the lambda will always return 'char 2016-07-27T18:55:54Z jasom: Karunamon: the hyperspec is very accessible compared to other language specifications, but it is still a specification and useful as a reference rather than a tutorial. 2016-07-27T18:56:20Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-07-27T18:57:15Z drewc joined #lisp 2016-07-27T18:57:38Z Karunamon: mm. I come from the python/ruby world, with the result that a lot of the basic logic eludes me still. Things like when to use the bare form of a function and when to use the symbolic one winds up with me in the debugger quite often. 2016-07-27T18:59:13Z mrottenkolber: Is it portably possible to throw a program-error with a message (displayed by the debugger) without subclassing it? 2016-07-27T18:59:16Z papachan` joined #lisp 2016-07-27T19:00:24Z Bike: it's fine to signal a program-error, but i don't know if the initargs are defined or anything. 2016-07-27T19:00:27Z H4ns: mrottenkolber: not portably. 2016-07-27T19:00:32Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-07-27T19:00:34Z jasom: Karunamon: http://paste.lisp.org/+6W2X 2016-07-27T19:01:17Z jasom: I changed 'foo to "foo" as python doesn't have anything like symbols, and I didn't use lambda since python's lambda only takes a single expression, but otherwise that's roughly equivalent to what you wrote originally 2016-07-27T19:01:26Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-07-27T19:03:02Z ovenpasta joined #lisp 2016-07-27T19:05:49Z Karunamon: and come to find out, 'char isn't even a valid type specifier 2016-07-27T19:05:51Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-07-27T19:06:06Z H4ns: mapchar does not exist either 2016-07-27T19:06:10Z H4ns: much fail :) 2016-07-27T19:06:56Z jasom: Karunamon: in general if foo is a function (foo bar baz) in lisp works like foo(bar, baz) in python. The only differences is that no commas are needed and the opening paren is one word to the left. 2016-07-27T19:07:19Z Karunamon: but 'character is. Confusing. You'd think that since (describe #\a) describes a "standard-char", that the type would be 'char 2016-07-27T19:07:45Z BlueRavenGT quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-07-27T19:07:51Z Karunamon: or that literally.. doh 2016-07-27T19:08:07Z jasom: Karunamon: I agree, it's standard-char base-char and character for the 3 character types in the standard 2016-07-27T19:08:17Z optikalmouse quit (Quit: optikalmouse) 2016-07-27T19:08:52Z mastokley quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-07-27T19:09:19Z jasom: Karunamon: it was discussed too, see http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Issues/iss046_w.htm 2016-07-27T19:10:07Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-07-27T19:10:11Z Karunamon: Heh! A call back to 1990 2016-07-27T19:10:20Z mastokley joined #lisp 2016-07-27T19:11:05Z Karunamon: working version of the earlier code was (mapcar (lambda (x) (coerce x 'character)) stringlist). 2016-07-27T19:11:32Z jasom: Karunamon: looks good to me 2016-07-27T19:11:33Z Karunamon: what I don't understand in this instance is why the lambda expression isn't quoted 2016-07-27T19:11:38Z optikalmouse joined #lisp 2016-07-27T19:11:41Z jasom: Karunamon: convenience 2016-07-27T19:11:49Z optikalmouse quit (Client Quit) 2016-07-27T19:11:50Z Karunamon: rephrase, isn't allowed to be quoted 2016-07-27T19:11:54Z jasom: lambda is actually a macro that expands (lambda ...) to #'(lambda ...) 2016-07-27T19:11:59Z Bike: because '(lambda ...) is just a list, not a function. 2016-07-27T19:12:16Z Bike: it would be like having (mapcar (list 'lambda (list 'x) etc) etc) 2016-07-27T19:12:27Z vydd_ joined #lisp 2016-07-27T19:12:35Z Karunamon: ah! so usually when you see that notation, you're passing the raw list into a function to be evaluted later? 2016-07-27T19:12:53Z Bike: usually you don't evaluate things at runtime 2016-07-27T19:12:54Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-07-27T19:13:02Z ggole: Lists aren't functions in CL. Maybe you are thinking of emacs lisp. 2016-07-27T19:13:07Z jasom: Karunamon: no 'foo is quoted #'foo is not; Bike is confused by your choice of language 2016-07-27T19:13:28Z jasom: everyone not named Karunamon, he meant #'(lambda ...) vs (lambda ...) 2016-07-27T19:13:33Z Karunamon: no, strictly CL here. Figuring I should stay with one dialect at a time 2016-07-27T19:13:46Z EvW joined #lisp 2016-07-27T19:14:04Z mrottenkolber: definitely :-) 2016-07-27T19:14:06Z Bike: what i said doesn't apply to #', which is not quotation 2016-07-27T19:14:13Z Bike: if i am in fact confused 2016-07-27T19:14:25Z jasom: Bike: his original version had #'(lambda ...) for the lambda 2016-07-27T19:14:32Z Bike: i saw 2016-07-27T19:14:33Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-07-27T19:14:38Z Josh2 joined #lisp 2016-07-27T19:15:14Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2016-07-27T19:15:46Z Karunamon: so I get this right- #'(foo) call a function literal, '(foo) is a list, (foo) will attempt to be macro expanded? 2016-07-27T19:15:56Z rjnw joined #lisp 2016-07-27T19:16:10Z DeadTrickster joined #lisp 2016-07-27T19:16:12Z jasom: Karunamon: things that take function designators (such as mapcar, funcall &ct.) can take an actual function or the name of a function. #'foo reads in as the actual value of the function named foo, 'foo is the name. '(lambda ...) is not a legal function name so you can't use it. 2016-07-27T19:16:12Z vydd quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-07-27T19:16:18Z Bike: #'(foo) is invalid, #'foo is a function literal (not a call), '(foo) is a list, (foo) is a function call, macro form, or special form 2016-07-27T19:17:47Z Karunamon: Got it, perfect. 2016-07-27T19:17:50Z mrottenkolber: Karunamon: you will almost never need #' 2016-07-27T19:17:50Z Bike: #'(lambda ...) is allowed 2016-07-27T19:17:57Z Bike: false 2016-07-27T19:18:03Z mrottenkolber: true 2016-07-27T19:18:05Z jasom: mrottenkolber: not true 2016-07-27T19:18:14Z Karunamon ducks 2016-07-27T19:18:16Z eudoxia: #'foo (pronounced "Sharpsign Single-Quote foo") is equivalent to (function foo), which means, "give me the function with name foo" 2016-07-27T19:18:25Z wtetzner joined #lisp 2016-07-27T19:18:29Z mrottenkolber: name a common situation where you need #' 2016-07-27T19:18:31Z eudoxia: this is because in CL variables and functions exist in separate namespaces 2016-07-27T19:18:32Z Bike: 'foo is a name, so it refers to the function globally named that. you don't always want a globally named function 2016-07-27T19:18:33Z jasom: mrottenkolber: flet 2016-07-27T19:18:42Z Xach: Local functions 2016-07-27T19:18:55Z Bike: #'foo also refers to the function itself, so if you don't want to allow redefinition... 2016-07-27T19:19:11Z eudoxia: stop fighting you guys you're giving the new guy a bad first impression 2016-07-27T19:19:32Z Bike: telling people false things is also bad 2016-07-27T19:19:33Z Xach: let's get into whether keywords used as argument data should be quoted or not 2016-07-27T19:19:39Z Xach: i am warming up to it, personally 2016-07-27T19:19:46Z mrottenkolber: reasons for? 2016-07-27T19:19:56Z Karunamon: lol 2016-07-27T19:19:59Z jasom: Karunamon: you would actually need #' in front of a lambda expression if lisp programmers weren't lazy. We don't want to do that, so (lambda ...) is actually a macro that expands to #'(lambda ...) 2016-07-27T19:20:00Z Xach: visually distinctive 2016-07-27T19:20:04Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-07-27T19:20:08Z mrottenkolber: (by the way flet is *not* common) 2016-07-27T19:20:20Z gko__ joined #lisp 2016-07-27T19:20:39Z ggole quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-07-27T19:20:45Z Bike: yes it is 2016-07-27T19:20:51Z Bike: what the hell 2016-07-27T19:20:53Z Xach: i use labels more than flet 2016-07-27T19:21:07Z mrottenkolber: I use neither more than ever 10,000 LOC 2016-07-27T19:21:11Z mrottenkolber: *y 2016-07-27T19:21:14Z Bike: good for you? 2016-07-27T19:21:16Z bcoburn quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-07-27T19:21:21Z jasom: Karunamon: the only difference between (funcall #'foo) and (funcall 'foo) is that in the former you pass the actual function object into funcall and in the latter you pass the name of the function, so funcall has to lookup the function named foo somewhere inside its implementation. 2016-07-27T19:21:28Z mrottenkolber: I guess, I think its a code smell 2016-07-27T19:21:46Z eudoxia: wait, you can do (funcall 'foo) 2016-07-27T19:21:49Z eudoxia: ??? 2016-07-27T19:21:57Z Xach: eudoxia: sure 2016-07-27T19:22:01Z mrottenkolber: eudoxia: of course :-) 2016-07-27T19:22:13Z jasom: eudoxia: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_f.htm#function_designator 2016-07-27T19:22:14Z mrottenkolber: eudoxia: “function designator” 2016-07-27T19:22:20Z eudoxia: I do not like this but I will accept it 2016-07-27T19:22:39Z trystero is now known as tristero 2016-07-27T19:22:40Z Bike: there's like two thousand flet forms in my quicklisp libraries 2016-07-27T19:22:57Z Bike: and a thousand labels 2016-07-27T19:23:21Z eudoxia: I typically use preemptively labels instead of flet because I always end up having mutually recursive locals and have to change it to labels 2016-07-27T19:23:27Z mrottenkolber: Bike: I concede that its a matter of preference 2016-07-27T19:23:38Z vydd joined #lisp 2016-07-27T19:23:44Z eudoxia: s/preemptively labels/labels preemptively 2016-07-27T19:23:51Z Xach: eudoxia: somehow i always have hope that it will remain flet 2016-07-27T19:23:54Z vydd quit (Changing host) 2016-07-27T19:23:54Z vydd joined #lisp 2016-07-27T19:23:55Z Xach: eudoxia: but it almost never does 2016-07-27T19:23:56Z jasom: flet/labels of symbols from others' packages is a code-smell since it can break macro hygiene 2016-07-27T19:24:01Z unbalancedparen joined #lisp 2016-07-27T19:24:17Z Bike: you said it was uncommon, not that you didn't like it. it is common. so, #' is nice to have. 2016-07-27T19:24:23Z mrottenkolber: Bike: so I was right after all: you almost never *need* #' ;-) 2016-07-27T19:24:47Z Xach: much like you can just use church numerals instead of integers 2016-07-27T19:25:08Z eudoxia: isn't that what Paul Graham wanted to do with Arc 2016-07-27T19:25:27Z mrottenkolber: oh thats a strawman Xach, you can get by perfectly fine without FLET and LABELS 2016-07-27T19:25:50Z Xach: sure. but it would make me cry every night, just before bedtime. 2016-07-27T19:25:55Z Bike: do you like... not like local functions 2016-07-27T19:25:56Z jasom: mrottenkolber: and there are people who write GUI applications for win32 in assembly. 2016-07-27T19:26:15Z Bike: it's such a weird thing to exclude, and more to the point, if you read other people's code you would know that it's pretty common 2016-07-27T19:26:24Z mrottenkolber: you make it sound worse than it is 2016-07-27T19:26:33Z eudoxia: but then you'd have to use (let ((x (lambda ..., and then you *would* have to use #'! 2016-07-27T19:26:46Z eudoxia: which one is it? 2016-07-27T19:26:48Z Bike: you wouldn't have to use #' for that 2016-07-27T19:27:04Z vydd_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-07-27T19:27:06Z eudoxia: oh yeah 2016-07-27T19:27:23Z jasom: I agree, you never need to use #'foo you can just use (function foo) 2016-07-27T19:27:37Z jasom ducks 2016-07-27T19:28:25Z drewc quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-07-27T19:28:28Z rumbler31 joined #lisp 2016-07-27T19:29:02Z mrottenkolber: jasom: exactly 2016-07-27T19:29:13Z Bike: is that seriously what you meant? 2016-07-27T19:29:21Z mrottenkolber: no ;-) 2016-07-27T19:29:33Z mrottenkolber: Its just I really seldomly need #' 2016-07-27T19:29:38Z jasom: I find using symbols as function designators to be a code smell, so I have the exact opposite opinion to mrottenkolber. 2016-07-27T19:29:48Z mrottenkolber: I actually don't use flet and labels (OMG) 2016-07-27T19:30:12Z Bike: look, it's your code, i don't care, but don't tell someone you don't need major features of the language because you don't happen to use them 2016-07-27T19:30:15Z mrottenkolber: I think nested functions are a code smell 2016-07-27T19:30:33Z H4ns: mrottenkolber: everybody has a right to their own opinion. 2016-07-27T19:30:38Z mrottenkolber: why, I think its good advice 2016-07-27T19:30:42Z mrottenkolber: exactly 2016-07-27T19:30:55Z H4ns: mrottenkolber: it is not. 2016-07-27T19:31:07Z asc232 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-07-27T19:31:33Z optikalmouse joined #lisp 2016-07-27T19:31:37Z mrottenkolber: you should definitely not use #' when you can use ' (e.g. a symbol), so why get into the habit 2016-07-27T19:31:51Z varjag: it makes intent clear 2016-07-27T19:32:17Z jasom: mrottenkolber: I think you should not use ' when you can use #' 2016-07-27T19:32:27Z H4ns: mrottenkolber: you keep making statements without providing a reason. try to fix that. 2016-07-27T19:32:28Z mrottenkolber: jasom: enjoy your slow code then 2016-07-27T19:32:32Z wtetzner quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-07-27T19:32:35Z Bike: okay, what. 2016-07-27T19:32:37Z oGMo: er 2016-07-27T19:32:37Z jasom: mrottenkolber: wat? 2016-07-27T19:32:38Z varjag: what 2016-07-27T19:32:43Z eudoxia: lmao what 2016-07-27T19:32:46Z H4ns: lo 2016-07-27T19:32:48Z H4ns: l 2016-07-27T19:33:00Z jasom: mrottenkolber: I would believe that on some implementations ' is slower than #', but I strongly suspect the converse to be not true. 2016-07-27T19:33:08Z Bike: (funcall 'foo ...) ends up something like (funcall (fdefinition 'foo) ...). (funcall #'foo ...) is just that. 2016-07-27T19:33:15Z mrottenkolber: CL complilers can optimize ' better than #' because #' can change locally 2016-07-27T19:33:23Z jasom: wat wat 2016-07-27T19:33:24Z mrottenkolber: ridicule me all you want 2016-07-27T19:33:29Z rumbler31 quit 2016-07-27T19:33:31Z mrottenkolber: ask a CL implementor 2016-07-27T19:33:44Z jasom: mrottenkolber: that's like saying you should use dynamic bindings when you can because lexical bindings are slow 2016-07-27T19:33:50Z rumbler31 joined #lisp 2016-07-27T19:33:50Z eudoxia: is stassats still doing his self-imposed exile from #lisp? 2016-07-27T19:33:58Z Bike: yes, because it sucks here 2016-07-27T19:33:59Z jasom: it might have been true in 1980, but totally not true today 2016-07-27T19:34:20Z Bike: why would it ever be true? what does "#' can change locally" even mean? the definition is fixed lexically 2016-07-27T19:34:28Z eudoxia: I am actually curious now whether this is true or not 2016-07-27T19:34:32Z eudoxia: it could be true for stupid reasons 2016-07-27T19:34:38Z H4ns: and what dows "slow code" mean? 2016-07-27T19:35:00Z oGMo: recursive wrongness 2016-07-27T19:35:18Z jasom: eudoxia: it could be true for a very naive implementation of lexical environments; it's not true for any production CL implementation 2016-07-27T19:35:42Z adolf_stalin quit (Quit: Leaving...) 2016-07-27T19:35:47Z eudoxia: hmmm 2016-07-27T19:35:48Z mrottenkolber: jasom: wrong 2016-07-27T19:35:59Z mrottenkolber: its true for LW 2016-07-27T19:36:01Z jasom: furthermore it would have to have both a naive implementation of lexical environments, but a compiler macro for funcall that resolves the global name. 2016-07-27T19:36:03Z mrottenkolber: for instance 2016-07-27T19:36:35Z Bike: no, really, what do you even mean by "#' can change locally" 2016-07-27T19:37:06Z oleo joined #lisp 2016-07-27T19:37:46Z jasom: mrottenkolber: #'foo is 100% resolvable at compile time any time that 'foo is also resolvable at compile time. 2016-07-27T19:38:59Z jasom: if an flet closes over local variables, it may not be resolvable at compile time, but neither would a lambda, and you can't do that with a global function. 2016-07-27T19:39:59Z jasom: but even in the closure case you could easily have #'foo resolve to a register access 2016-07-27T19:40:11Z jasom: just like any other local variable 2016-07-27T19:40:47Z strykerkkd joined #lisp 2016-07-27T19:41:19Z oGMo: you still _know_ it's a lexical function, though, and you know if it's a closure or not, so in any case there can be no "slower" 2016-07-27T19:43:06Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-07-27T19:43:23Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-07-27T19:43:30Z jasom: oGMo: I would believe that there are interpreters out there for which a global environment lookup is faster than a lexical environment lookup, but you're arguing over speed for poorly optimized interpreters at that point. 2016-07-27T19:44:16Z jasom: "My snail is faster than your turtle in this particular environment" 2016-07-27T19:44:20Z oGMo: jasom: yeah you would have to have something already poor enough that it's the least of your worries 2016-07-27T19:45:33Z Petit_Dejeuner: jasom: Sounds like a decent paper "On Snail Turtle Predatory Relations in Different Environments" 2016-07-27T19:46:12Z milanj joined #lisp 2016-07-27T19:48:21Z Karunamon peeks back in 2016-07-27T19:48:25Z Karunamon: how goes the holy war? 2016-07-27T19:48:43Z mrottenkolber: not very holy ;) 2016-07-27T19:48:59Z Bike: yeah, sorry about that. if you have a question you can go ahead, you're higher priority than this. 2016-07-27T19:50:17Z Karunamon: haha, it's fine, if anything this is kind of awesome seeing a language channel that isn't dead for a change 2016-07-27T19:50:52Z defaultxr quit (Quit: l8r) 2016-07-27T19:52:02Z dlowe: #lisp is very much alive for an IRC channel 2016-07-27T19:52:10Z dlowe: kind of funny, that. 2016-07-27T19:52:49Z vlatkoB quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-07-27T19:53:59Z Karunamon: I do have one more rando question with regards to check-type 2016-07-27T19:54:07Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-07-27T19:54:16Z papachan` quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-07-27T19:54:36Z Karunamon: it takes a place specifier and a type specifier, so theoretically I could do (check-type somestringvar string) 2016-07-27T19:54:46Z Bike: corretc 2016-07-27T19:55:12Z dlowe: (check-type var 'string) 2016-07-27T19:55:23Z Bike: no quote 2016-07-27T19:55:26Z dlowe: unless you've defined your string variable 2016-07-27T19:55:46Z Karunamon: say i'm in the middle of a defun 2016-07-27T19:57:21Z Karunamon: I don't need to quote the placeholder, since that's implicitly in scope 2016-07-27T19:57:29Z Karunamon: but I do need to quote the type specifier? 2016-07-27T19:57:35Z dlowe: no, I was mistaken 2016-07-27T19:57:45Z Bike: you do not quote the type specifier. it is not evaluated. 2016-07-27T19:58:20Z Bike: you can see (check-type aardvarks (array * (3))) in the examples for instance. 2016-07-27T19:58:34Z dlowe: I was thinking of TYPEP where you do need a quote 2016-07-27T19:58:49Z dlowe shakes his fist at cloud. 2016-07-27T19:59:30Z Karunamon: okay. think i'm getting the hang of this 2016-07-27T19:59:58Z mathrick joined #lisp 2016-07-27T20:03:16Z eivarv quit (Quit: Sleep) 2016-07-27T20:07:44Z papachan` joined #lisp 2016-07-27T20:07:54Z mathrick quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-07-27T20:09:48Z asc232 joined #lisp 2016-07-27T20:09:50Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-07-27T20:12:09Z eivarv joined #lisp 2016-07-27T20:16:41Z warweasle_lab quit (Quit: Work done.) 2016-07-27T20:21:30Z Xal joined #lisp 2016-07-27T20:24:49Z quasus quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-07-27T20:28:14Z oleo joined #lisp 2016-07-27T20:32:12Z jerme quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client) 2016-07-27T20:33:57Z yrk joined #lisp 2016-07-27T20:34:03Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-07-27T20:34:27Z yrk quit (Changing host) 2016-07-27T20:34:28Z yrk joined #lisp 2016-07-27T20:41:26Z papachan` quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-07-27T20:46:24Z gilez quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-07-27T20:51:34Z xaotuk joined #lisp 2016-07-27T20:53:59Z papachan` joined #lisp 2016-07-27T21:00:22Z jasom: Anybody know how to get the integer value given a pointer-to-integer when using autowrap? 2016-07-27T21:01:32Z puchacz joined #lisp 2016-07-27T21:01:43Z jasom: Karunamon: generally speaking if you are passing a type to a macro you don't quote it and to a function you do. That's not 100% perfect but is a good rule of thumb 2016-07-27T21:01:51Z m_zr0_ joined #lisp 2016-07-27T21:03:08Z Josh2 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-07-27T21:03:09Z jasom: (The real rule is that type literals need to be quoted if they are evaluated and not otherwise, but functions will always evaluate their arguments while macros have control over the evaluation of their arguments) 2016-07-27T21:03:26Z Josh2 joined #lisp 2016-07-27T21:04:31Z wtetzner joined #lisp 2016-07-27T21:04:58Z m_zr0 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-07-27T21:05:34Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-07-27T21:05:53Z edgar-rft joined #lisp 2016-07-27T21:07:03Z whiteline quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-07-27T21:07:34Z quasus joined #lisp 2016-07-27T21:08:09Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp 2016-07-27T21:08:23Z rumbler31: anyone work with vgplot lately? (or gnuplot for that matter) 2016-07-27T21:09:08Z wtetzner_ joined #lisp 2016-07-27T21:09:43Z wtetzner quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-07-27T21:09:48Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2016-07-27T21:11:06Z ym quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-07-27T21:12:03Z ksool quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-07-27T21:13:29Z whiteline joined #lisp 2016-07-27T21:13:41Z Bike: gnuplot a bit, sure 2016-07-27T21:14:23Z ksool joined #lisp 2016-07-27T21:15:19Z eivarv quit (Quit: Sleep) 2016-07-27T21:16:19Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-07-27T21:18:38Z euphoria- joined #lisp 2016-07-27T21:19:16Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2016-07-27T21:21:05Z gilez joined #lisp 2016-07-27T21:24:06Z quazimod1 joined #lisp 2016-07-27T21:26:25Z rumbler31: bike: I'm trying to plot 2d data and the axis autoscale settings aren't helping me. the settings are making a best fit on each axis which is distorting the visual plot, when what I really need is a best fit square. I thought back when I used octave that you could specify an axis scale that would achieve this, but it doesn't look like gnuplot directly supports this, I'd have to get a best fit, then check the largest dimension and respecify 2016-07-27T21:26:31Z rumbler31: a fit for a square scale, unless this is more easily supported 2016-07-27T21:27:19Z rumbler31: i'm used to using octave for getting to gnuplot, trying to do all my current work in lisp and gnuplot instead so i'm finding out all the things that were really abstractions provided by octave 2016-07-27T21:28:05Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-07-27T21:29:27Z Bike: maybe you want this? i'm sorry, i've never run into this problem http://gnuplot.sourceforge.net/docs_4.2/node230.html 2016-07-27T21:30:49Z gilez quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-07-27T21:31:46Z rumbler31: let me see if i can figure out how I used to do it 2016-07-27T21:34:00Z optikalmouse quit (Quit: optikalmouse) 2016-07-27T21:34:40Z EvW joined #lisp 2016-07-27T21:37:45Z quasus quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-07-27T21:42:44Z adhoc[] is now known as adhoc[afk] 2016-07-27T21:44:35Z gko__ quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2016-07-27T21:47:11Z Blukunfando quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-07-27T21:47:52Z quazimod1 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-07-27T21:47:56Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-07-27T21:49:47Z ovenpasta quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-07-27T21:51:57Z mrottenkolber quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-07-27T21:55:14Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-07-27T21:58:27Z papachan` quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-07-27T22:01:19Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp 2016-07-27T22:06:05Z vydd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-07-27T22:06:38Z vydd joined #lisp 2016-07-27T22:06:54Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2016-07-27T22:08:37Z b80905` joined #lisp 2016-07-27T22:08:45Z alexherbo2 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-07-27T22:09:21Z strykerkkd quit (Quit: Leaving) 2016-07-27T22:09:25Z b80905` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-07-27T22:09:44Z quasus joined #lisp 2016-07-27T22:09:58Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp 2016-07-27T22:10:09Z harish_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-07-27T22:10:18Z b80905 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2016-07-27T22:11:15Z vydd quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2016-07-27T22:12:57Z shka_ joined #lisp 2016-07-27T22:13:30Z shka quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-07-27T22:18:56Z alexherbo2 joined #lisp 2016-07-27T22:22:26Z xaotuk quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-07-27T22:22:34Z harish_ joined #lisp 2016-07-27T22:26:43Z pierpa joined #lisp 2016-07-27T22:28:33Z mathrick joined #lisp 2016-07-27T22:29:37Z jleija joined #lisp 2016-07-27T22:30:27Z rjnw quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2016-07-27T22:39:21Z safe joined #lisp 2016-07-27T22:42:06Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2016-07-27T22:43:40Z jasom: my brain is hurting for weak hash tables in trivial-garbage. If I don't want the values of the hash table to prevent collection of the values I do :weakness :value ? 2016-07-27T22:45:30Z wtetzner_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-07-27T22:45:57Z Bike: think so 2016-07-27T22:47:25Z Bike: "If weakness is :key or :value, an entry is kept as long as its key or value is reachable"... assuming that means "otherwise reachable", that means that an entry isn't kept once its value is otherwise reachable. so, yeah 2016-07-27T22:48:10Z adhoc[afk] is now known as adhoc[work] 2016-07-27T22:55:23Z Tristam joined #lisp 2016-07-27T22:55:53Z bullets joined #lisp 2016-07-27T23:01:17Z BlueRavenGT quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-07-27T23:07:56Z therik quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-07-27T23:13:59Z unbalancedparen quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5) 2016-07-27T23:19:04Z jasom: any good way to get a foreign backtrace when I get a memory-fault in foreign code? 2016-07-27T23:20:02Z johann_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-07-27T23:20:30Z jasom: or same question with division-by-zero error 2016-07-27T23:20:31Z johann_ joined #lisp 2016-07-27T23:20:41Z cromachina joined #lisp 2016-07-27T23:23:59Z bullets quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-07-27T23:26:14Z zeissoctopus joined #lisp 2016-07-27T23:26:32Z Anselmo quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5) 2016-07-27T23:27:04Z Anselmo joined #lisp 2016-07-27T23:27:33Z unbalancedparen joined #lisp 2016-07-27T23:28:33Z rumbler3_ joined #lisp 2016-07-27T23:30:10Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2016-07-27T23:30:11Z unbalancedparen quit (Client Quit) 2016-07-27T23:30:36Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-07-27T23:31:47Z shka_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2016-07-27T23:32:12Z rumbler31 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2016-07-27T23:32:21Z tokik quit (Quit: leaving) 2016-07-27T23:35:40Z papachan` joined #lisp 2016-07-27T23:35:45Z tokik joined #lisp 2016-07-27T23:37:42Z Josh2 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2016-07-27T23:38:56Z yrk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2016-07-27T23:40:53Z tokik quit (Quit: leaving) 2016-07-27T23:41:43Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2016-07-27T23:42:10Z tokik joined #lisp 2016-07-27T23:44:09Z ehaliewicz joined #lisp 2016-07-27T23:45:03Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2016-07-27T23:49:25Z pillton: Is the division-by-zero error actually an error? Some routines in LAPACK require the trap to be disabled. 2016-07-27T23:55:28Z jasom: Not sure 2016-07-27T23:55:40Z Xal quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.5) 2016-07-27T23:55:57Z Bike: well, if you have a backtrace... 2016-07-27T23:56:14Z jasom: the backtrace is just that I called into a foreign function, n o more information 2016-07-27T23:56:49Z jasom: I assume that gdb traps on divide-by-zero? If so then it's not expected as the theoretically equivalent C program does not trap under gdb 2016-07-27T23:58:23Z bullets joined #lisp 2016-07-27T23:59:21Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)