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2016-06-17T00:04:47Z therik: is there something wrong with this line? (format *client* "~a#~a" (length json-string) json-string)
2016-06-17T00:05:27Z therik: *client* is #<active local stream socket connected to "@\"\"" {10046FBAD3}> from iolib and json-string is "20#{\"message\":\"testik\"}"
2016-06-17T00:05:56Z jasom: looks fine, though I suppose you want json-string to not start with 20#
2016-06-17T00:06:23Z jasom: also if you use the format "~d:~a," you can use netstrings to read it from json
2016-06-17T00:06:24Z therik: eeh, the lib in nodejs expects that
2016-06-17T00:07:13Z jasom: e.g. https://www.npmjs.com/package/netstring-stream\
2016-06-17T00:07:24Z jasom: therik: right, but your format is going to prepend 20# for you, right?
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2016-06-17T00:08:06Z jasom: you'll end up with 23#20#{"message":"testik"} if you're doing what you say
2016-06-17T00:09:00Z therik: jasom, ah, I see, no, I actually copy pasted wrong string... json-string is "{\"message\":\"testik\"}", but it should prepend that 20#
2016-06-17T00:10:23Z jasom: right, in that case what you posted looks fine, but you should use ~d rather than ~a to force decimal output
2016-06-17T00:10:30Z jasom: ~a will use whatever the curent print base is
2016-06-17T00:10:52Z therik: weird thing is,   (format *client* "20#{\"message\":\"textik\"}") works fine, but (format *client* "~d#~a" (length "{\"message\":\"testik\"}") "{\"message\":\"testik\"}") throws Error (TYPE-ERROR) during printing: #<SIMPLE-TYPE-ERROR {1005951523}>
2016-06-17T00:12:08Z jasom: therik: backtrace?
2016-06-17T00:12:31Z therik: and if I swap *client* for t, it works fine too... I am also getting reliable memory fault on that spot...
2016-06-17T00:15:03Z therik: jasom: http://paste.lisp.org/display/318525
2016-06-17T00:15:52Z jasom: sorry, I gotta go
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2016-06-17T00:16:14Z therik: no prob, I should go too
2016-06-17T00:16:22Z therik: 3:10 in the morning here
2016-06-17T00:17:10Z jasom: but that looks like a bug in iolib to me
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2016-06-17T00:23:06Z therik: ok, I "fixed" it... (let ((val (format nil "~d#~a" 20 "{\"message\":\"testik\"}"))) (format *client* val))
2016-06-17T00:23:26Z therik: it's strange that this works, maybe some timing issue
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2016-06-17T02:33:02Z axion: '
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2016-06-17T02:50:52Z linoge: I want to test out Lisp for web app development. Any advice? I've read about ucw and weblocks. I want to do a page that exposes a REST API but can also be usable from a web browser in a traditional fashion
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2016-06-17T02:55:55Z jasom: linoge: I personally use clack directly.  Hunchentoot is probably the easiest to get started though, and there are plenty of guides.
2016-06-17T02:56:33Z jasom: and it's perfectly good for implementing a REST API, you define functions and tell hunchentoot which paths to route to it.
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2016-06-17T03:00:40Z DeadTrickster: jasom, how you handle authentication/authorization and content negotiation, also versioning?
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2016-06-17T03:03:32Z linoge: Well I was kinda attracted by the number of things I'm to learn using the both I mentioned above. However, I also though of using something more "low-leve"
2016-06-17T03:03:36Z linoge: *"low-leve"
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2016-06-17T03:03:49Z linoge: Holy, am I not able to write "level" properly x)?
2016-06-17T03:05:33Z PuercoPop: DeadTrickster: I doubt there is something for content negotiation in Lisp out there, maybe mmontone's cl-rest-server?
2016-06-17T03:05:56Z PuercoPop: let alone versioning (you mean in the http headers right?
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2016-06-17T03:06:04Z DeadTrickster: PuercoPop, yeah, looked into that. still not convinced though
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2016-06-17T03:06:57Z DeadTrickster: it's like whenever I seed routes declared alongside handlers I vomit )
2016-06-17T03:08:55Z PuercoPop: yeah, in that regard the lisp web-dev camp has a long way to go (although there is potential)
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2016-06-17T03:09:52Z PuercoPop: There is a CLOS to REST router in the spirit of tasty-pie as well https://github.com/joaotavora/snooze
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2016-06-17T03:10:25Z PuercoPop: it handle's content negotiation but not versioning and it limits your routes
2016-06-17T03:11:16Z PuercoPop: (or is opinionated about how your routes should be named :D)
2016-06-17T03:11:40Z DeadTrickster: that's the thing
2016-06-17T03:12:03Z DeadTrickster: REST can be defined with flow graphs (look at cowboy webmachine)
2016-06-17T03:12:20Z DeadTrickster: I see none of this for CL, just tons of macrology
2016-06-17T03:12:47Z DeadTrickster: like 'hey I can define syntax for this and that'
2016-06-17T03:13:04Z DeadTrickster: now show me your oauth2 protected server )
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2016-06-17T03:15:51Z linoge: Snooze seems quite interesting, I'm, by some reason, not fond of declaring routes with annotations (seems to be the approach in caveman/ningle/lucerne)
2016-06-17T03:16:04Z linoge: Might be that there's some better argument than me not feeling right about it.
2016-06-17T03:17:36Z PuercoPop: linoge: for routes check either cl-handlers or pavel's router/microframework
2016-06-17T03:17:37Z PuercoPop: sec
2016-06-17T03:18:13Z PuercoPop: https://github.com/pvlpenev/nethil (Handler's and routes are decoupled here)
2016-06-17T03:18:55Z PuercoPop: https://github.com/Inaimathi/cl-handlers and a similar idea
2016-06-17T03:23:51Z ahungry: in caveman you can use defroute instead of the cl-annot stuff
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2016-06-17T03:24:35Z PuercoPop: linoge: also you use trivia/optima to match clack's http requests directly jasom does that iirc
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2016-06-17T03:28:03Z linoge: I see : D. Well, I'll take that into account. What's the general opinion on continuations nowadays? I think I read that they don't make a lot of sense for REST, but could be of use to the traditional side browser centered (there must be a better name for it) style from what I've read :O
2016-06-17T03:28:18Z linoge: *REST APIs
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2016-06-17T03:46:47Z jasom: linoge: it doesn't help that CL lacks first-class continuations, but if you are willing to encapsulate your state manually, they can work quite well.
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2016-06-17T03:51:09Z linoge: I see, well, I'll try to investigate everything further :). But I have this feeling that I'm going to have a great experience with building web stuff with lisp :)
2016-06-17T03:51:44Z jasom: linoge: they also make for wicked-fast prototyping, but I know larger sites move away from them as it is hard manage resources on high-traffic sites (when every link calls a continuation, you need to store a continuation for every link that anybody might possible click on)
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2016-06-17T03:55:07Z linoge: I read about that on... well, a mail conversation linked from UCW webpage I think.
2016-06-17T03:55:40Z linoge: But it was not clear to me at the end if it was possible to improve the resource usage :/
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2016-06-17T03:58:42Z linoge: That would equally apply if CL had first class continuations?
2016-06-17T03:58:47Z jasom: The other issue is that it's best if your state is stored in the DB rather than the application
2016-06-17T03:59:16Z jasom: linoge: yeah, you're always storing things whether it's implicit or explicit.
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2016-06-17T03:59:50Z jasom: and honestly, closures give you plenty of flexibility, without complicating your code too much if you do it right; or you can go the weblocks route and use cl-cont.
2016-06-17T04:02:11Z linoge: But cl-cont would leave me storing continuations right?
2016-06-17T04:03:02Z jasom: yup
2016-06-17T04:03:33Z jasom: either way it's continuations.  first-class continuations lets you avoid having to structure your code with explicit continuations (think about javascript continuations for an example)
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2016-06-17T04:05:45Z linoge: I see, in that case I might want to avoid using them as after this test I might get onto doing something which might be used widely :/
2016-06-17T04:06:32Z jasom: yeah.  You can do it just fine the old-fashioned way.
2016-06-17T04:07:39Z linoge: Yup, however, it might be interesting as a learning exercise to do it both ways c:
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2016-06-17T04:10:44Z jasom: yup; the whole continuation thing is pretty slick, just associate a lambda with a securely generated random value, and then look it up in the hash table when the URL is called, and call the function.
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2016-06-17T04:14:42Z linoge: Well, I'm most thankful for the aid :). I think the best way then is to test and see what I can get working ^^. I'll make sure to document my advances c:
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2016-06-17T04:49:38Z Oladon: Hrm
2016-06-17T04:49:51Z Zhivago: Indeed.
2016-06-17T04:50:19Z Oladon: I'm attempting a code golf in CL. I don't think it's going so well. :)
2016-06-17T04:50:40Z jasom: ah
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2016-06-17T05:07:54Z Zhivago: Stupid (reader) macros FTW.
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2016-06-17T05:15:20Z linoge: Gods be good, I didn't know such a thing existed x). Lisp is truly awesome : O
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2016-06-17T05:42:12Z fiddlerwoaroof_: linoge: ningle also doesn't require annotations, you just do (setf (route "/foo") (lambda (params) ...)))
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2016-06-17T05:50:37Z jasom: if only # were a terminating macro character I'd save like 10 bytes
2016-06-17T05:55:35Z ecraven: hm.. apl must be excellent for code golf :)
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2016-06-17T06:54:21Z mejja: line noise i'm told is on top of the golfing hill;)
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2016-06-17T07:16:48Z jasom: (list 0) is the shortest way to make a mutable cons with the car of 0 (I don't care what the cdr is)?
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2016-06-17T07:20:29Z mejja: (cons 0 nil) ??
2016-06-17T07:20:57Z jasom: mejja: shortest in characters (still on code golf)
2016-06-17T07:21:23Z mejja: Aha... line noise ftw!
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2016-06-17T08:32:49Z PuercoPop: To allocate the char foo[4096] i'm using cffi:with-foreign-object (foo :char 4096) ..., to access the elements of each array I have to use forieng-aref? if so what goes in the array type? '(:char 4096)?
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2016-06-17T08:38:03Z jdz: PuercoPop: maybe cffi:mem-aref?
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2016-06-17T08:38:52Z jdz: PuercoPop: there's some non-trivial cffi code i got working long time ago here: https://bitbucket.org/jdzerins/evp/src/f454684f057a02bde546ca0254c1c012ad7eae49/evp.lisp?fileviewer=file-view-default
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2016-06-17T08:42:05Z PuercoPop: jdz: thanks, yeah mem-ref seems what I'm looking for
2016-06-17T08:42:14Z reepca: is there a way to get the declared type of a variable?
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2016-06-17T08:43:30Z PuercoPop: reepca: (type-of foo)
2016-06-17T08:43:31Z PuercoPop: ?
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2016-06-17T08:43:59Z reepca: that gives the type of the object, not the variable
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2016-06-17T08:44:17Z reepca: doesn't it?
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2016-06-17T08:44:41Z PuercoPop: variables/places have no type, objects have
2016-06-17T08:44:55Z reepca: but they can have a declared type
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2016-06-17T08:46:35Z reepca: and DESCRIBE can print it
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2016-06-17T08:48:07Z reepca: (defvar *test* 2) (declaim (type integer *test*)) (describe '*test*) => ... Declared type: INTEGER ...
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2016-06-17T08:49:20Z therik: guys, I'm getting strange error when I eval (format *client* "~d#~a" 20 "{\"message\":\"testik\"}"), yet no error when I eval (format *client* "20#{\"message\":\"testik\"}")
2016-06-17T08:49:39Z therik: here's a trace http://paste.lisp.org/display/318548
2016-06-17T08:50:00Z PuercoPop: reepca: describe is implementation specific as is how the compiler treats declare expressions, it may treat it as something to verify for examples. There may be an implementation specific way to get the information you want
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2016-06-17T08:51:04Z reepca: if nothing else, one technically could parse through the output of describe on sbcl looking for the declared type I suppose
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2016-06-17T08:57:48Z jasom: PuercoPop: important note: with-foreign-object stack allocates, so you just used 4k of stack with that
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2016-06-17T08:59:34Z jasom: PuercoPop: https://github.com/jasom/mymongrel2/blob/master/mymongrel2.lisp#L49 <-- using unwind protect to heap allocate
2016-06-17T08:59:41Z jasom should probably make that into a macro
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2016-06-17T09:03:41Z PuercoPop: jasom: I'm using that idiom to close another object alocated foreign-alloc, but I assumed the with-foreign-object taked care of removing freeing the resource.
2016-06-17T09:04:04Z jasom: PuercoPop: it takes care of freeing the resource, but it may do so by stack allocating
2016-06-17T09:04:14Z jasom: so you ought not use with-foreign-object for large opjects
2016-06-17T09:04:59Z PuercoPop: so you are saying that to free the resource it may allocate new memory as well? (Sorry kinda of sleepy)
2016-06-17T09:05:13Z jasom: (with-foreign-object (foo :char 10000000)(something-to-fill-up foo)) <-- this will crash your program
2016-06-17T09:06:01Z PuercoPop: ah you are saying I should be wary of stacck allocation because I can get a heap exhaustion
2016-06-17T09:06:15Z jasom: you won't get heap exhaustion because it's not allocated on the heap
2016-06-17T09:06:18Z jasom: it's allocated on the C stack
2016-06-17T09:07:37Z jasom: it would be like the C code "void foo(){char c[1000000000]; ...}"
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2016-06-17T09:08:31Z jasom: and for all the times I've said "is" it's actually "may be, but definitely is on sbcl on x86oids"
2016-06-17T09:09:12Z PuercoPop: ahh ok, I think I see what you are saying. I'm not using this in a function that is going to be called multiple times but in the 'main' function.
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2016-06-17T09:09:53Z jasom: PuercoPop: 4k is probably okay; I don't know what sbcl defaults thread's stack sizes to.  Just be aware of it.
2016-06-17T09:09:59Z PuercoPop: I need a char* because that is how libvorbis returns the samples
2016-06-17T09:10:05Z jasom: right
2016-06-17T09:10:10Z PuercoPop: I could read it in smaller increments
2016-06-17T09:10:36Z PuercoPop: if I run into trouble
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2016-06-17T09:11:05Z jasom: 2MB is the default stack size so you're probably okay with 4k
2016-06-17T09:11:38Z reepca: Can anything be (portably) done with environment objects besides passing them to stuff like macroexpand?
2016-06-17T09:11:42Z jasom: I had a 1MB buffer this way and crashed my program, which is how I learned that with-foreign-object can stack allocate
2016-06-17T09:11:46Z jasom: reepca: nope
2016-06-17T09:11:55Z reepca: well at least I know now
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2016-06-17T09:13:07Z jasom: reepca: there are so many ways to implement environments that it would have really restricted implementations if the standard required otherwise.
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2016-06-17T09:14:54Z lieven: there was an environments proposal in CLtL2. the committee just ran out of time|money before they got to it.
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2016-06-17T10:35:29Z knobo: PuercoPop: do you use woo?
2016-06-17T10:36:36Z therik: how do I define a macro that expands after all other macros macroexpanded, but before the compilation starts?
2016-06-17T10:38:22Z knobo: therik: what do you want to do?
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2016-06-17T10:39:38Z therik: my use case is, have some defmessage macro that will define function and populate dynamic variable with name of that function. Then when all macroexpanding is finished, a dispatcher function will be generated. This dispatcher function will take string argument and have huge (cond) form and call function of that name
2016-06-17T10:41:46Z therik: so (defmessage foo ()...) (defmessage bar () ) ... and when all those are expanded, I want (defun dispatcher (str) (cond ((equalp str "foo") (foo)) ((equalp str "bar) (bar)) ....
2016-06-17T10:42:21Z therik: I know I can use some *case form instead of cond, but essentially some form of switch() {} will be there
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2016-06-17T10:43:24Z therik: now I can do it dynamically and search through *all-defined-messages* on each call to the dispatcher, but I suspect compiler can do much better if I know the names beforehand.
2016-06-17T10:44:52Z knobo: therik: so, you want to put all function names defined by defmessage in a global variable?
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2016-06-17T10:45:37Z therik: yes, and then (defun dispatcher.. should be generated by a macro, so all that defmessage function names are essentially hard coded in there
2016-06-17T10:46:20Z therik: obviously, the defdispatcher has to be expanded after all defmessages have been expanded
2016-06-17T10:46:47Z knobo: Why do you need it to be hardcoded in a cond or case?
2016-06-17T10:47:14Z knobo: because of speed?
2016-06-17T10:47:22Z therik: well, efficiency... It's my assumption, but I think compiler can do much better with it
2016-06-17T10:47:47Z therik: if it's not hardcoded, I have to search through an array or list on each call
2016-06-17T10:48:00Z knobo: Are you doing premature optimization?
2016-06-17T10:48:04Z therik: yes :)
2016-06-17T10:48:22Z knobo: Fine by me. Do what you whant. :P
2016-06-17T10:48:32Z therik: not very premature, I know that I'm gonna be tight on CPU
2016-06-17T10:49:23Z knobo: But I think that playing with the order of evaluation of macros is not a very good idea.
2016-06-17T10:49:45Z therik: i have working version of this in node and I need to speed it up about 20x at least
2016-06-17T10:50:01Z therik: so not very premature..
2016-06-17T10:50:13Z knobo: Rather, you can cache the result by a function  during runtime
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2016-06-17T10:50:47Z therik: i'm not sure I understand
2016-06-17T10:51:35Z knobo: Insted of hardcoding the lookup with a macro, you make a function that generates a lookuptable
2016-06-17T10:51:42Z paule32: hello
2016-06-17T10:51:47Z therik: hey paule32
2016-06-17T10:51:51Z knobo: Then defmessage can delete that cache.
2016-06-17T10:51:59Z knobo: or update it.
2016-06-17T10:52:48Z knobo: therik: show me the function you need to speed up 20x.
2016-06-17T10:52:55Z paule32: is it possible convert a symbol to string? e.g.: ("hello" "therik") to (HELLO YOU)
2016-06-17T10:52:58Z therik: ah, you mean like recompile the dispatch after each defmessage ?
2016-06-17T10:53:51Z therik: paule32, yes, I just can't remember which one
2016-06-17T10:53:56Z knobo: paule32: yes symbol-name
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2016-06-17T10:54:12Z therik: paule32, symbol-name
2016-06-17T10:54:20Z therik: ah, too late ;)
2016-06-17T10:54:23Z _death: paule32: your example does not match the question
2016-06-17T10:54:25Z paule32: heh
2016-06-17T10:54:37Z knobo: intern, then.
2016-06-17T10:55:04Z peey: Does asdf work with .asd files that have a hyphen in the name?
2016-06-17T10:55:14Z _death: yes
2016-06-17T10:55:41Z knobo: clhs intern
2016-06-17T10:55:41Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_intern.htm
2016-06-17T10:55:44Z paule32: my learnings: i have a list of symbols (defvar HEL (string "Hello"))
2016-06-17T10:56:02Z peey: _death: Was that a yes to my asdf question?
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2016-06-17T10:56:40Z |2dman|: therik: isn't a big (cond ...) basically the same as processing a list anyway? At runtime, you have to work through each of your conditionals to determine which branch to take.
2016-06-17T10:56:54Z paule32: then, i make a list of sentences with several symbols like (list HEL YOU)
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2016-06-17T10:57:35Z paule32: the "random" peek of the list will printout to screen
2016-06-17T10:57:51Z therik: knobo: I've got a 2d map of thousands of objects that move pretty fast, and I'm making message system that would talk to node-js and pass the positions back and forth between the two
2016-06-17T10:58:22Z paule32: then i would like, to check, if the symbol list the same as read-line
2016-06-17T10:58:23Z therik: node will then send this to client and client can sip coffee and play :)
2016-06-17T11:00:45Z knobo: therik: if you use strings you need som kind of index lookup to make it fast.
2016-06-17T11:00:53Z knobo: cond will not help yoou.
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2016-06-17T11:01:46Z therik: knobo, hmm speaking of intern, why don't I just use intern?
2016-06-17T11:02:02Z paule32: as example: when the computer say: "you are welcome" then i would like assoc. the question with a list/variable that contains "yes"
2016-06-17T11:02:07Z paule32: is that possible?
2016-06-17T11:02:23Z moore33: therik: Why not use a hash table? intern is the same thing, more or less.
2016-06-17T11:02:31Z knobo: therik: security?
2016-06-17T11:02:36Z knobo: therik: speed
2016-06-17T11:03:08Z knobo: therik: https://github.com/fukamachi/proc-parse
2016-06-17T11:03:14Z knobo: I think.
2016-06-17T11:03:24Z paule32: https://paste.fedoraproject.org/380448/66161374/
2016-06-17T11:03:39Z paule32: this is what i done, till now
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2016-06-17T11:09:06Z therik: hmm, so if defmessage's populate *messages*, then I'll have *messages* available at compile time, but that means that if I load the compiled result in fresh image, it won't be there again...
2016-06-17T11:09:35Z therik: I'll just recompile the dispatcher inside each defmessage, I think that's the easiest
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2016-06-17T11:10:46Z therik: 0: thy shall write code in english
2016-06-17T11:11:05Z moore33: therik: The solution to your *messages* problem is to add to *messages* inside the expansion of the macro -- not the code of the macro -- and to wrap it in (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :eval))
2016-06-17T11:11:18Z moore33: therik: Again I mention hash tables :)
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2016-06-17T11:12:40Z therik: moore33, I'll try both cond and hashtable and see what's faster...
2016-06-17T11:12:51Z moore33: have fun
2016-06-17T11:12:56Z therik: moore33: but you're absolutely right, eval-when is what I need
2016-06-17T11:13:07Z therik: thanks :)
2016-06-17T11:13:11Z moore33: no prob
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2016-06-17T11:13:43Z therik: there's gonna be only about 10-20 entries in that hashtable, so that's why I'm bit hesitant to use it
2016-06-17T11:14:03Z moore33: therik: ok
2016-06-17T11:15:58Z therik: paule32: can you describe bit better and say what functions are you struggling with?
2016-06-17T11:18:39Z moore33: therik: You could also do better than a big cond by implementing a binary search for the matching message. Or you could encode that in your cond clause, for extra hacker points :)
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2016-06-17T11:20:01Z therik: moore33, heureka, I can sort that *messages* !!!
2016-06-17T11:20:10Z moore33: exactly
2016-06-17T11:20:15Z therik: i'm claiming my hacker points!
2016-06-17T11:20:32Z therik: this is perfect..
2016-06-17T11:26:23Z paule32: therik: i have a dictonary of words, each word becomes a short symbol, so you can construct a large list of symbols which point to a sentence
2016-06-17T11:26:30Z moore33: I'm surprised there isn't already a function to do a binary search on a sorted sequence or array, like in C++.
2016-06-17T11:27:47Z paule32: therik: and the new list i would like assoc. with an other list, which contain the weight of the sentence
2016-06-17T11:28:43Z paule32: the computer collect the last one and make decision, which he ask next
2016-06-17T11:29:14Z paule32: simple words: a monkey bot :-)
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2016-06-17T11:31:25Z therik: paule32, so you have large list of symbols from monkey strings and each symbol points to a sentence?
2016-06-17T11:31:38Z therik: and sentence is another list?
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2016-06-17T11:32:24Z therik: I still don't get it
2016-06-17T11:32:34Z paule32: each symbol points to a word and that symbol, i create a list "sentence"
2016-06-17T11:33:07Z paule32: e.g.: (defvar WOD (string "wood"))
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2016-06-17T11:34:03Z paule32: the list "sentence" contains lists of sentence (WOD GRN)
2016-06-17T11:34:17Z paule32: this stands for "wood" "green"
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2016-06-17T11:34:46Z paule32: then, i like to ask: "ist the wood green" ?
2016-06-17T11:35:42Z therik: ok, so each symbol is a variable, you make '(woo grn) list and you say you have list containing weights?
2016-06-17T11:35:44Z paule32: the two strings: "wood" + "green" i would to a list: "the wood is green"
2016-06-17T11:35:57Z paule32: yes
2016-06-17T11:36:32Z therik: how does the weight list look?
2016-06-17T11:37:20Z paule32: it can be an other list with ("the wood is green") as fact
2016-06-17T11:37:22Z therik: wait, the list of sentences contains sentence, so like '((wod grn) (hous blau) (man red)).. ?
2016-06-17T11:37:33Z paule32: right
2016-06-17T11:38:00Z therik: and you want to process (wod grn) into "the wood is green?
2016-06-17T11:38:08Z paule32: right
2016-06-17T11:38:17Z paule32: as fact or list of facts
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2016-06-17T11:38:42Z paule32: so i can decied one, or NIL, if not
2016-06-17T11:39:34Z therik: (format t "The ~a is ~a." (car fact) (cadr fact))
2016-06-17T11:40:26Z paule32: ok, thank you
2016-06-17T11:40:47Z therik: will get (wod grn) into "The wood is green." if you create (wod grn) as (list wod grn)
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2016-06-17T11:42:03Z paule32: thank you, i am in background
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2016-06-17T11:44:48Z therik: if you're getting "The wod is grn." then you need to extract the value from it..
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2016-06-17T11:45:07Z therik: also, those lists are almost as bad as it gets to make large scale searches on them
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2016-06-17T12:08:10Z therik: moore33: So I can generate a tree of nested if's where n-th level of ifs compares n-th character in the string, that would sort it... my assumption was that there's something in the compiler that would already do this..
2016-06-17T12:08:47Z moore33: Highly doubtful.
2016-06-17T12:09:12Z reepca: I imagine most compiler designers would expect common lisp programmers to be using large cond/case chains with symbols, not strings
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2016-06-17T12:09:43Z therik: well I can easily use symbols
2016-06-17T12:09:46Z moore33: However, If it was me I would use string< at each level of the tree i.e., do the comparison based on strings, not characters.
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2016-06-17T12:11:15Z therik: i'll post it when i'm done :) All hail premature optimization :)
2016-06-17T12:11:22Z moore33: indeed.
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2016-06-17T12:11:43Z moore33: And then compare it to a runtime binary search in a sorted array.
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2016-06-17T12:12:30Z therik: moore33, what would you bet on
2016-06-17T12:12:31Z reepca: and then generalize it to a "selectf" macro of course
2016-06-17T12:13:26Z therik: what's selectf macro?
2016-06-17T12:13:29Z moore33: therik: I think the differences will be hard to measure.
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2016-06-17T12:13:38Z reepca: an imaginary future macro
2016-06-17T12:14:09Z therik: ah you mean like setf with unlimited depth of whatever?
2016-06-17T12:14:12Z moore33: For truly cache-friendly behavior, you don't want the array of strings sorted in order, but in something like a heap.
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2016-06-17T12:16:44Z therik: moore33, I think better measurement would be against case, hashtable and list iteration
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2016-06-17T12:17:43Z therik: I didn't know heap is cache friendly.. so I'm gonna implement macro that generates heap out of my source...
2016-06-17T12:18:11Z therik: ... lisp.. just wow...
2016-06-17T12:18:20Z moore33: therik: There was recently some posts about that, maybe on Hacker News... can't remember.
2016-06-17T12:19:34Z moore33: But the motivator is doing the first several probes in memory that is likely to be in the cache.
2016-06-17T12:20:03Z moore33: Whereas the classic binary search jumps all over the place.
2016-06-17T12:21:30Z therik: wait, but how do I search in a heap? If I check root's children and both are smaller than my string, which way to go?
2016-06-17T12:21:52Z moore33: http://bannalia.blogspot.fr/2015/06/cache-friendly-binary-search.html
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2016-06-17T12:22:42Z moore33: I don't actually mean a "heap." Sorry!
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2016-06-17T12:23:13Z moore33: I meant the tree-in-array structure where the nodes are stored in breadth-first order.
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2016-06-17T12:23:44Z therik: ah I see what you mean
2016-06-17T12:25:15Z pierpa: anybody knows if in clozure CL there's a way to control how character literals are displayed?
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2016-06-17T12:26:08Z therik: ya, it's still binary search, just flattened... also good idea :) so I can make two arrays, one with function names in order and perform this flat tree search on it, then the index I end up on will be same like the index of the corresponding function in second array...
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2016-06-17T12:26:50Z therik: cause if I put ("name" . #'function), the searching will still jump all over the place to get to those conses
2016-06-17T12:26:51Z peey: When I do (asdf:load-system 'my-system) I get the error The name "MY-SYSTEM" does not designate any package.  [Condition of type SB-KERNEL:SIMPLE-PACKAGE-ERROR]. But (asdf:find-system 'my-system) returns a system object. Anyone know what I am doing wrong?
2016-06-17T12:26:52Z pierpa: btw, there's a paper by Clinger about optimal compilation of cases
2016-06-17T12:28:21Z moore33: therik: It's true that Lisp is at a bit of a disadvantage here. OTOH, you could store the functions in-line in your table i.e., have each name/function pair take two entries.
2016-06-17T12:28:30Z moore33: This is all insane of course.
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2016-06-17T12:29:52Z therik: Certainly.
2016-06-17T12:31:13Z Xach: peey: systems are not packages.
2016-06-17T12:31:27Z Xach: peey: systems can load code that defines packages, but find-system and find-package work in two different namespaces.
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2016-06-17T12:32:05Z Xach: peey: if you get that error immediately from load-system, that means your package definitions do not precede references to them in your source code.
2016-06-17T12:32:27Z Xach: peey: easier to troubleshoot if you paste.lisp.org your .asd file
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2016-06-17T12:33:49Z therik: moore33, depending on the size of cache and size of array, it might be faster or slower... that last hop to the function will be faster if it's inlined, but only half as many entries will fit in cache.. Still good for my use case of ~10 functions though..
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2016-06-17T12:35:01Z therik: what I was really looking for was that eval-when though... this will be nice exercise, but if I really needed that much speed, I wouldn't be parsing json few lines above..
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2016-06-17T12:36:55Z moore33: therik: I actually got the syntax slightly wrong. It's (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute) ...) I always get confused between the old and new versions of the operator.
2016-06-17T12:37:33Z peey: Fixed now. Name of my system and package is the same which caused the confusion. One of my files were using (in-package) and package was defined in a later file. Thanks Xach!
2016-06-17T12:38:59Z therik: now I'm thinking, I need to convert those strings to numbers cause strings will be stored in an array as pointers if I'm right... Luckily, I can get through this with hash function..
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2016-06-17T12:42:20Z jdz: was https://pvk.ca/Blog/Lisp/string_case_bis.html already mentioned?
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2016-06-17T12:46:32Z therik: hm, this would be really cool for lexers, where you usually know the keywords from the syntax ahead of time...
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2016-06-17T12:51:42Z _death: if the set of strings is known ahead of time you can create a perfect hash function
2016-06-17T12:52:32Z therik: _death, is that something that can be automated?
2016-06-17T12:52:52Z _death: yes.. I see that pkhoung wrote "A string-case based on perfect hashing would also be an option. However, finding such a hash function can take some time, and pessimises behaviour on mismatches."
2016-06-17T12:53:25Z therik: "take some time" as in processor time or in pen and paper time?
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2016-06-17T12:53:56Z _death: it can take time to derive the hash function itself
2016-06-17T12:54:09Z _death: if you're interested you can check https://www.gnu.org/software/gperf/
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2016-06-17T12:55:06Z therik: ok, good
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2016-06-17T13:19:25Z holycow: does anyone know the name of that wiki written by a profession at an eu university?  I cannot find it anywhere and it doesn't seem to be on cliki
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2016-06-17T13:23:01Z eudoxia: lambdawiki or something i think
2016-06-17T13:24:07Z holycow: ooo, it's something like that.  okay getting closer.  thx!
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2016-06-17T13:27:22Z holycow: epsilonwiki
2016-06-17T13:27:28Z holycow: thank you for the push in the right direction
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2016-06-17T14:56:30Z PuercoPop: knobo: not really, I use hunchentoot and wookie. Why?
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2016-06-17T16:06:57Z therik: (anaphora:aif t it nil)
2016-06-17T16:07:04Z therik: The variable IT is unbound.
2016-06-17T16:07:14Z therik: dafuq?
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2016-06-17T16:12:07Z PuercoPop: therik: you have to import the it symbol from anaphora
2016-06-17T16:12:32Z PuercoPop: (I would recommend to use alexandria's let-if instead)
2016-06-17T16:13:05Z therik: ok
2016-06-17T16:13:10Z edgar-rft: or write (anaphora:aif t anaphora:it nil)
2016-06-17T16:13:52Z therik: ah I see
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2016-06-17T16:28:36Z paule32: hello
2016-06-17T16:28:59Z paule32: is it possible to implement OpenCV - Computer Vison
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2016-06-17T16:46:58Z Grue`: (anaphora:aif foo anaphora:it nil) is just equivalent to foo isn't it? And (anaphora:aif foo anaphora:it bar) is equivalent to (or foo bar)
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2016-06-17T16:47:32Z therik: Grue`, yes
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2016-06-17T16:48:48Z therik: paule32, in cl?
2016-06-17T16:48:56Z paule32: yes
2016-06-17T16:49:17Z therik: anything can be implemented in cl
2016-06-17T16:49:33Z therik: it's turing complete.. but it likely won't be as fast as optimized C
2016-06-17T16:50:27Z therik: by fast, I mean performance, it will probably be way faster in development time though
2016-06-17T16:52:09Z therik: hmm, so I have my branching optimized switch almost ready.. and it's awesomely safe... if the provided message doesn't correspond to any function, it will just call some function with a roughly similar name :D
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2016-06-17T16:57:48Z akkad: what is (declare (ignore foo bar baz ...?
2016-06-17T16:58:01Z akkad: is that a gc hint to throw those away?
2016-06-17T16:59:06Z jasom: akkad: it promises that you won't ever use them.  "ignorable" means you might not use them
2016-06-17T16:59:20Z jasom: the latter is mainly to suppress unused variable warnings
2016-06-17T16:59:45Z isoraqathedh: The former sometimes marks not-yet-implemented things.
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2016-06-17T17:05:12Z jasom: it's also used sometimes when destructuring and you only want some values
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2016-06-17T17:13:15Z akkad: if you have a filename in a var how do you express #Pvar?
2016-06-17T17:13:59Z akkad: ahh make-pathname
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2016-06-17T17:23:56Z akkad: how evil is this? https://gist.github.com/9abf01bb831ea134186abc129a06d6bd looking to clean it up
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2016-06-17T17:37:02Z therik: https://gist.github.com/therik/f41674de78e7acfaa704322352e2b8cd
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2016-06-17T17:52:12Z Grue`: akkad: I can confirm that get-stat crashes on sbcl on windows
2016-06-17T17:53:12Z Grue`: that said, sb-posix doesn't work very well on windows...
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2016-06-17T17:56:07Z Grue`: also you can just use sb-posix:stat without opening the file first
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2016-06-17T17:56:33Z |2dman|: hello, is anyone here familiar with the lquery library?
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2016-06-17T18:02:36Z _death: 2dman: it's better to ask a question about the library itself and not about the people in this channel
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2016-06-17T18:08:43Z |2dman|: _death: thanks (I think?) -- I'm building a web scraper, and have working code, but it seems like the library is designed to do what I'm doing more quickly
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2016-06-17T18:09:21Z |2dman|: I want to use lquery to find <IMG> tags, filter them by their class value, and then extract the src attribute value from the last one
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2016-06-17T18:09:58Z |2dman|: my current working code first extracts the <IMG> tags, then processes them in a loop, collecting the ones with the right class value
2016-06-17T18:10:17Z |2dman|: but reading the docs, I feel like I should be able to do this in one shot, but the docs are confusing
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2016-06-17T18:19:29Z Grue`: there's also https://github.com/AccelerationNet/css-selectors it might be more straightforward
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2016-06-17T18:19:49Z PuercoPop: |2dman|: You are looking for clss https://github.com/Shinmera/CLSS
2016-06-17T18:19:49Z Grue`: although there's no css selector for last matched element
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2016-06-17T18:19:58Z PuercoPop: (or css-selectors)
2016-06-17T18:20:26Z PuercoPop: Grue`: cl:last will come in handy for that
2016-06-17T18:20:44Z Grue`: yeah, but it won't be "one-shot" anymore
2016-06-17T18:20:56Z Grue`: also you'd need (car (last ...))
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2016-06-17T18:21:28Z |2dman|: Grue`: right, I encountered the results of (last ...) already
2016-06-17T18:23:27Z |2dman|: ok, apparently I have an answer now
2016-06-17T18:23:44Z |2dman|: ($ (initialize source) "img.media" (attr "src"))
2016-06-17T18:24:03Z |2dman|: I didn't realize I could append ".<class>" to filter on CSS
2016-06-17T18:24:10Z |2dman|: and then (car (reverse ...)) on that
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2016-06-17T18:29:02Z PuercoPop: |2dman|: (aref <return> (length <result>)) is better, not need to cons by reversing
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2016-06-17T18:32:34Z |2dman|: PuercoPop: quite true, though on average these pages have either 1 or 2 entries, and it's always the last one that I want
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2016-06-17T18:41:05Z fourier: is where any functions in CL to convert byte array to number in network-byte ordor?
2016-06-17T18:44:21Z fe[nl]ix: nibbles
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2016-06-17T18:51:28Z akkad: Grue`: thanks
2016-06-17T18:53:37Z akkad: Ttpwd
2016-06-17T18:54:34Z fourier: thanks.. works for me
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2016-06-17T19:21:32Z fourier`: is where a way to do bitwise logical operations on numbers?
2016-06-17T19:22:08Z fourier`: or on single (unsigned-byte 8)s
2016-06-17T19:22:28Z fourier`: found bit-and etc but they work only on arrays :(
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2016-06-17T19:25:26Z phoe_krk: fourier`: ayup
2016-06-17T19:25:39Z phoe_krk: https://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node131.html
2016-06-17T19:26:00Z phoe_krk: (logand 248 31) ;=> 24
2016-06-17T19:27:02Z phoe_krk: tastes better when you write numbers in hex notation
2016-06-17T19:27:22Z phoe_krk: (logand 1234567890 #xFFFF) ;=> 722
2016-06-17T19:28:11Z fourier`: phoe_krk: oh great thanks!
2016-06-17T19:28:39Z phoe_krk: fourier`: don't thank me, thank X3J13 and the original creators of these ideas and their implementations if anyone
2016-06-17T19:29:23Z phoe_krk: bonus: they work on integers of arbitrary length
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2016-06-17T19:46:15Z jasom: fourier`: also look at ldb and friends, which can make certain bit manipulations much more clear
2016-06-17T19:46:18Z jasom: clhs ldb
2016-06-17T19:46:18Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_ldb.htm
2016-06-17T19:46:30Z jasom: also note that ldb is setf able
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2016-06-17T19:48:13Z jasom: (format t "~X" (let ((x #xffff)) (setf (ldb (byte 4 4) x) 0) x)) ; => FF0F
2016-06-17T19:48:41Z jasom: with a constant, perhaps anding with a mask is more clear, but if "0" were a nibble I wanted to set in from a variable...
2016-06-17T19:49:33Z jasom: (format t "~X" (let ((x #xffff)) (setf (ldb (byte 4 4) x) #xA) x)) ; => FFAF is perhaps a better example
2016-06-17T19:50:04Z jasom: dealing with arbitrary bitpacked data in lisp is so much nicer than C
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2016-06-17T20:16:38Z paule32: hello
2016-06-17T20:16:54Z paule32: does someone know how to install opencv: https://github.com/byulparan/common-cv
2016-06-17T20:16:55Z paule32: ?
2016-06-17T20:20:07Z fourier`: jasom: yes I'm reading about ldb
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2016-06-17T20:24:13Z PuercoPop: paule32: what happens after cloning it in local-projects and ql:quickloading it? (have you installed the opencv headers in your system as well)?
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2016-06-17T22:27:00Z __cot__: hmm
2016-06-17T22:27:30Z __cot__: 'meaw
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2016-06-17T23:00:34Z __cot__: uhm
2016-06-17T23:01:49Z __cot__: you loaded a engine and the    memmmmemmmmeorytimmin looks strange physically like oerflowing
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