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2016-06-15T00:19:05Z luis: M-?
2016-06-15T00:20:29Z luis: slime-macrostep, slime-apropos
2016-06-15T00:20:39Z jasom: luis: oh, those are all good
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2016-06-15T00:22:01Z jasom: oh, and for those who haven't answered yet, this excluded ldb, which is kind of its own thing
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2016-06-15T00:23:43Z Xach: jasom: C-u before compilation
2016-06-15T00:24:09Z jasom: Xach: that lets you set the debug level?
2016-06-15T00:24:11Z jasom: IIRC
2016-06-15T00:24:34Z Xach: jasom: yeah, that forces max debug
2016-06-15T00:24:46Z Xach: i use that a lot when i don't have the details i want in sldb
2016-06-15T00:25:14Z jasom: I always forget about it and put a declaim at the top of the .lisp file that I comment/uncomment
2016-06-15T00:25:43Z Xach: I don't know if I remember it because I wrote it or because it's really useful
2016-06-15T00:25:55Z Xach: "actually" useful
2016-06-15T00:26:05Z luis: :-)
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2016-06-15T00:27:18Z Xach: I remember hacking on my first patch for slime so long ago! it was hyphen symbol completion. I did a terrible job and lukego rewrote it with something delightfully terse yet clear.
2016-06-15T00:27:37Z Xach wipes away a nostalgic tear
2016-06-15T00:28:08Z akkad: nice
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2016-06-15T00:29:40Z Xach: 2003!
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2016-06-15T00:32:17Z luis: 2006 for me. Enhanced make-instance arglists. :)
2016-06-15T00:32:32Z Xach: happy 10 year slimiversary
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2016-06-15T03:06:26Z emaczen: How do I look at a request sent from drakma:http-request?
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2016-06-15T03:08:34Z JuanDaugherty: in your server things?
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2016-06-15T03:15:24Z emaczen: JuanDaugherty: I just want to see the actual request being sent.
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2016-06-15T03:17:24Z JuanDaugherty: assuming stuff works it will be the same as the received http request so any point between the transmission and receipt should do
2016-06-15T03:18:39Z JuanDaugherty: normally unless your are developing a client or server you are only interested in what is transmitted and received
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2016-06-15T03:19:22Z JuanDaugherty: also "sent form drakma" confuses me
2016-06-15T03:19:36Z JuanDaugherty: i thought drakma was  a programmatic lisp client
2016-06-15T03:19:53Z JuanDaugherty: like lisp curl
2016-06-15T03:20:26Z emaczen: All I know about Drakma is that it does HTTP
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2016-06-15T03:21:18Z JuanDaugherty: so "http request sent from drakma" makes sense if it was a client
2016-06-15T03:21:42Z JuanDaugherty: why do you need to look at the http request itself?
2016-06-15T03:22:01Z JuanDaugherty: (as opposed to what you are doing to issue the request?)
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2016-06-15T03:22:51Z akkad: if only drakma did uds
2016-06-15T03:22:55Z JuanDaugherty: btw was just looking at the characters for zen in chinese and japanese
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2016-06-15T03:25:44Z JuanDaugherty: and reading a gloss of the True Dharma Eye by Dogen called "Don't be a Jerk"
2016-06-15T03:26:10Z JuanDaugherty: and the first few koans of the original
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2016-06-15T03:27:00Z akkad: old ass code ;;;> Symbolics, CLOE Runtime, and Minima are trademarks, and CLOE, Genera, and Zetalisp are registered trademarks of Symbolics, Inc.
2016-06-15T03:27:01Z akkad:  
2016-06-15T03:27:03Z JuanDaugherty: i don't know anything about drakma but should be a matter of supplying an URL/URI and registering a callback or waiting for a response, binding for same
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2016-06-15T03:28:49Z JuanDaugherty: or processing a form
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2016-06-15T03:30:10Z JuanDaugherty: *URL/URI/HTML buffer
2016-06-15T03:30:35Z Petit_Dejeuner: emaczen: Send to a local port and read?
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2016-06-15T05:45:11Z fiddlerwoaroof: emaczen: maybe (setf drakma:*header-stream* *standard-output*) ?
2016-06-15T05:45:32Z fiddlerwoaroof: That may of may not do what you need
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2016-06-15T05:50:09Z fiddlerwoaroof: s/of/or/
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2016-06-15T06:53:38Z jackdaniel: ECL Quarterly IV: https://common-lisp.net/project/ecl/posts/ECL-Quarterly-Volume-IV.html :-)
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2016-06-15T07:22:04Z H4ns: emaczen: are you looking for drakma:*header-stream*?
2016-06-15T07:23:56Z H4ns: pf, too late :)
2016-06-15T07:24:47Z mood: two seconds too late, heh
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2016-06-15T09:35:07Z therik: hello, anybody knows how to setup datagram connection to local domain socket in iolib? I open the socket but can't find out what to call and in which order to send/receive data.
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2016-06-15T09:43:23Z igam: therik: have a look at https://www.amazon.com/UNIX-Network-Programming-Richard-Stevens/dp/0139498761
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2016-06-15T13:10:45Z therik: So I guess this is my last shot at it: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/37835762/connect-node-js-as-client-to-a-common-lisp-server
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2016-06-15T13:11:05Z igam: Why? Are you going to Mars next?
2016-06-15T13:11:59Z therik: no, moving away from CL for this project...
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2016-06-15T13:14:39Z therik: igam: and since it seems to be about fifth failed CL project in a row, I'm coming to the conclusion that CL might not be for me.
2016-06-15T13:16:23Z igam: Why don't you call listen?
2016-06-15T13:16:38Z igam: Here is an example of a client-server using ccl sockets: https://framagit.org/af-engineering/ops/blob/master/sources/icc/icc.lisp
2016-06-15T13:16:44Z TMA: therik: why do you insist on local/unix sockets? from your description there seems to be no problem with tcp sockets
2016-06-15T13:18:20Z igam: therik: another example with clisp: http://www.clisp.org/impnotes/socket.html ; it does the listen in socket-server, but it still calls accept(2).
2016-06-15T13:18:50Z igam: therik: did you read the book I advised you earlier? https://www.amazon.com/UNIX-Network-Programming-Richard-Stevens/dp/0139498761
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2016-06-15T13:20:55Z igam: And then, if you use a named pipe, then you can use just normal file streams, they will mostly work. The only thing you want to check with them is that you use consistently force-output.
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2016-06-15T13:23:53Z therik: igam: listen-on got me errors, I thought I should call it at first but it fails on #<SOCKET-OPERATION-NOT-SUPPORTED-ERROR 95 :EOPNOTSUPP "Operation not supported", FD: 36>
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2016-06-15T13:25:36Z igam: therik: yes, perhaps you cannot listen on a named socket.  You would listen on a TCP socket obtained with bind.
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2016-06-15T13:26:19Z therik: TMA: I thought domain socket would be faster because it skips TCP
2016-06-15T13:27:12Z _death: plain unix domain sockets is too low level for what you're describing in your post.. it should be easy to do that using, say, zeromq
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2016-06-15T13:28:32Z _death: you can still use an ipc transport
2016-06-15T13:29:05Z igam: therik: http://troydhanson.github.io/network/Unix_domain_sockets.html links to a client/server example.
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2016-06-15T13:29:53Z igam: therik: so with unix sockets, you still use bind and listen.
2016-06-15T13:30:01Z igam: and accept.
2016-06-15T13:30:33Z igam: https://github.com/troydhanson/network/blob/master/unixdomain/srv.c
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2016-06-15T13:33:43Z igam: therik: iolib is rather low level, which is why you'd follow C examples when you use it.
2016-06-15T13:34:00Z therik: igam: is there something high-level?
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2016-06-15T14:01:51Z fe[nl]ix: it's low-level in the sense that it exposes the OS-level primitives with a Lispy interface
2016-06-15T14:02:13Z fe[nl]ix: it also has direct syscall definitions if that's what you want
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2016-06-15T14:02:39Z fe[nl]ix: therik: there are web frameworks that have an IOlib backend if you're interested
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2016-06-15T14:30:59Z therik: ho wow I made it work!
2016-06-15T14:31:45Z therik: so apparently, for lolcal sockets it calls bind and listen, so that my calls to it were failing... Also, I had to change it to passive stream
2016-06-15T14:33:23Z igam: Congrats!
2016-06-15T14:34:43Z therik: igam, thanks
2016-06-15T14:35:00Z therik: still not well, but it's something
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2016-06-15T14:49:50Z therik: yesssssss it's working!!!!
2016-06-15T14:50:02Z therik: thank you guys !!!!
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2016-06-15T14:53:50Z fe[nl]ix: therik: can you save in a paste the code that was generating an error ?
2016-06-15T14:54:04Z fe[nl]ix: what you said looks like a bug
2016-06-15T14:54:14Z fe[nl]ix: datagram sockets should not call listen()
2016-06-15T14:55:05Z therik: fe[nl]ix, I didn't make datagram sockets work at all, but the stream sockets called bind and listen
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2016-06-15T15:12:11Z therik: fe[nl]ix: with datagrams, I couldn't figure out how to write into the socket.
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2016-06-15T15:12:48Z jdz: use sendto?
2016-06-15T15:13:11Z jdz: or sendmsg
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2016-06-15T16:27:27Z PuercoPop: jackdaniel: minor feedback on ECL Quarterly, Don't change from We to I, stick to one (we preferably). Keep up the good work!
2016-06-15T16:27:47Z jackdaniel: PuercoPop: thanks, I'll remember that :-)
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2016-06-15T16:29:41Z jasom: Xach: is there a license for the quicklisp quickstart file?
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2016-06-15T16:37:31Z PuercoPop: phoe_krk: Apropos the ultraspec, have you seen http://www.cliki.net/hyperdoc? I recently found out about it reading the source code of Chunga. Maybe a middle ground would be a wiki that points to a symbol with URL anchors for namespaces?
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2016-06-15T16:43:36Z ays: what are some beginner level projects I can do in lisp to improve my skills
2016-06-15T16:43:36Z ays: ?
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2016-06-15T16:46:41Z shka: ays: land of lisp?
2016-06-15T16:47:02Z luis: If you don't have any ideas of your own, maybe something like https://www.hackerrank.com/ ?
2016-06-15T16:47:40Z therik: ays, neural networks
2016-06-15T16:47:54Z Grue``: artificial intelligence ;)
2016-06-15T16:48:33Z therik: ays: or do you mean existing open source projects you want to contribute to?
2016-06-15T16:48:37Z ays: shka : landoflisp.com seems to be a website for a book, does it also host projects somewhere?
2016-06-15T16:48:39Z jackdaniel: cl-bench could use some help ;) namely using trivial-benchmark as its backend for measuring would be nice
2016-06-15T16:48:53Z jackdaniel: small task for a few days
2016-06-15T16:49:08Z ays: therik, I meant something I can write to improve my code, not specifically an open source project
2016-06-15T16:49:14Z Grue``: really, 1) find something that takes you a long time to do manually 2) automate it
2016-06-15T16:49:54Z Grue``: I made a lot of such personal-ware for myself
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2016-06-15T16:50:15Z ays: Grue``, I could automate tasks with something like python as well, I wanted to get a taste of lisp's potential while I was at it
2016-06-15T16:50:42Z therik: ays: if you want to be helpful and practice, write docs for all the undocumented stuff on github
2016-06-15T16:51:58Z ays: therik, that is a pretty neat idea!
2016-06-15T16:52:20Z Grue``: maybe if you want to become a documentation writer ;)
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2016-06-15T16:52:37Z Grue``: as opposed to The Real Coder (TM)
2016-06-15T16:53:05Z ays: haha well no better way to understand the code then to document it
2016-06-15T16:53:09Z therik: in fact, everybody should do that... if everybody here commented one function a day, say 10 lines per function, that's 1.5M LOC of code documented per year
2016-06-15T16:53:10Z shka does not know that the real coder™ means
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2016-06-15T16:54:13Z Grue``: real coders ain't need no docs
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2016-06-15T16:54:33Z shka: so they don't program?
2016-06-15T16:54:37Z shka: ok, i get it
2016-06-15T16:54:39Z shka: ;-)
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2016-06-15T16:54:44Z therik: Grue`: I disagree on so many levels...
2016-06-15T16:54:45Z ays can see the new world of lisp documenters and coders living in harmony
2016-06-15T16:55:30Z PuercoPop: therik: I think Grue` is joking
2016-06-15T16:55:42Z PuercoPop: (in the same vein of Pascal is for quiche-eaters)
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2016-06-15T16:55:56Z Grue``: ays: the "potential of lisp" is that you can build a Domain Specific Language to solve a specific task
2016-06-15T16:55:57Z therik: PuercoPop: I think so too
2016-06-15T16:56:08Z Grue``: the task in question can be anything that can be described with language
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2016-06-15T16:57:08Z therik: and good tutorials are missing too...
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2016-06-15T16:57:18Z ays: Grue``, yes. I decided to work on a small neural network project..nothing fancy
2016-06-15T16:57:56Z ays: therik, you're right. there is a demand for concise lisp tutorials for small tasks
2016-06-15T16:58:15Z therik: ays: I'm part of that demanding group
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2016-06-15T17:00:36Z ays: therik, I have only recently started with lisp, but, by habit, I will write about all the things I do with lisp
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2016-06-15T17:02:07Z therik: ays: great!
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2016-06-15T17:09:33Z fiddlerwoaroof: ays: I think you see the potential of lisp best when you do something with it that you usually do in something else.
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2016-06-15T17:10:54Z fiddlerwoaroof: https://github.com/Shinmera/lquery is a good example of this: it's significantly more enjoyable than html/xml manipulation in python
2016-06-15T17:13:54Z ays: fiddlerwoaroof, lquery is very cool! and the code is elegant too!
2016-06-15T17:14:29Z ays: lisp is the one language who's code doesn't make me cringe the first time I see it
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2016-06-15T17:16:39Z Grue``: there's plenty of bad lisp code too
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2016-06-15T17:25:52Z akkad: thanks jasom, the fix-iolib package worked perfectly
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2016-06-15T17:33:23Z jasom: akkad: did I do something?
2016-06-15T17:36:48Z akkad: oops autocomplete
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2016-06-15T17:37:51Z Fade: fix-iolib? in my experience, it isn't broken...
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2016-06-15T17:59:58Z p_l: I'm now a bit conflicted because I have ideas for a project that should have iolib and/or cl-async compatibility...
2016-06-15T18:00:26Z p_l: (should probably work on an usocket-compat in style of cffi-uffi-compat...)
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2016-06-15T18:09:14Z akkad: Fade: I thought the same thing about posix :P
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2016-06-15T18:36:51Z Fade chuckles
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2016-06-15T18:41:19Z jasom: soon we'll have fix-fix-iolib
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2016-06-15T18:51:57Z fe[nl]ix: jasom: what ???
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2016-06-15T19:22:22Z akkad: jasom: true
2016-06-15T19:22:37Z jasom: fe[nl]ix: were you here about 2 hours ago?  There was some talking about fix-iolib, then a joke was made referrencing libfixposix
2016-06-15T19:22:39Z akkad: nice not having to go install libposix now
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2016-06-15T19:23:55Z Xach: warweasle: any update to squirl?
2016-06-15T19:24:37Z Xach: Who here runs "lispgames" on github?
2016-06-15T19:24:42Z Xach: http://report.quicklisp.org/2016-06-15/failure-report/glkit.html#glkit-examples is busted
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2016-06-15T19:25:43Z jasom: Xach: dto at least does
2016-06-15T19:25:51Z jasom: Ryan Pavlik as well, but I don't know if he hangs out here
2016-06-15T19:25:59Z jasom: https://github.com/orgs/lispgames/people
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2016-06-15T19:27:01Z jasom: oh |3b| is on that list
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2016-06-15T19:29:20Z PuercoPop: jasom: Ryan Pavlik is oGMo
2016-06-15T19:29:53Z jasom: PuercoPop: good to know
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2016-06-15T19:30:19Z jasom needs to make a #lisp<->github cheat-sheet
2016-06-15T19:33:15Z PuercoPop: the problem seems to be an extra closing paren
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2016-06-15T19:43:12Z Xach: indeed it does
2016-06-15T19:43:31Z peey: What's the appropriate loop syntax for stepping? (loop for i from 1 below 10 step 2)
2016-06-15T19:44:03Z PuercoPop: Xach: btw, is the custom repl for github going to be published along side githappy?
2016-06-15T19:44:21Z Xach: PuercoPop: it will be part of quicklisp-controller
2016-06-15T19:44:33Z Xach: peey: (loop for i from 1 below 10 by 2)
2016-06-15T19:44:42Z peey: Thanks!
2016-06-15T19:49:47Z PuercoPop: Xach: looking forwarding to it. Sometimes I'd wish for a protocol to define 'right-click menus' for objects at the REPL
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2016-06-15T20:05:04Z jasom: peey: for future reference: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/06_a.htm is much better for finding the loop keywords you need than what you get if you search for loop in the hyperspec
2016-06-15T20:05:08Z jasom: clhs loop
2016-06-15T20:05:08Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_loop.htm
2016-06-15T20:05:13Z jasom: ^^^ not the most useful reference
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2016-06-15T20:05:36Z peey: Aha 6.1.2
2016-06-15T20:05:44Z peey: Thanks, useful link!
2016-06-15T20:06:20Z jasom: peey: it took me a while to find that one originally
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2016-06-15T20:07:54Z peey: Reminds me of http://www.smbc-comics.com/?id=2355
2016-06-15T20:08:09Z peey: Not that it wasn't appericiated, yours was truly useful!
2016-06-15T20:08:47Z peey: @jasom
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2016-06-15T20:26:28Z fe[nl]ix: jasom: what's fix-iolib ?
2016-06-15T20:30:18Z jasom: fe[nl]ix: no clue; I searched my callback and saw nothing; perhaps akkad can elucideate
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2016-06-15T20:58:25Z PuercoPop: jackdaniel: I forgot to mention it earlier, but have you tried docbook2x-texi for mecanically converting ECL? (Although I'm not a fan of texinfo)
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2016-06-15T21:07:49Z isoraqathedh: The datestring parser now has a prototype.
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2016-06-15T21:42:30Z jasom: isoraqathedh: what kind of datestrings are you parsing?
2016-06-15T21:43:30Z isoraqathedh: Generic ones, that is, you have a string and a format list like local-time's and out pops a timestamp.
2016-06-15T21:43:42Z jasom: nice
2016-06-15T21:43:48Z jasom: though not all formats are unambiguous
2016-06-15T21:43:52Z isoraqathedh: True.
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2016-06-15T21:44:07Z isoraqathedh: I've only just finished the parsing part. Now I have to do the reconciliation part.
2016-06-15T21:44:15Z isoraqathedh: Which means setting defaults and precedences.
2016-06-15T21:45:11Z jasom: it would be nice to have something that tests if the format list is ambiguous as well
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2016-06-15T21:57:52Z therik: how do I read from socket stream? I know read-line and others, but I mean, do I need a separate thread that's gonna hang on that (read) ? Is there some trick?
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2016-06-15T22:02:34Z axion: Xach: That was my fault. I can't believe paredit did that to me right before a QL dist
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2016-06-15T22:03:38Z axion: Xach: I merged a PR to fix it. Sorry
2016-06-15T22:04:08Z axion: jasom: Ryan = oGMo
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2016-06-15T22:10:41Z jasom: axion: are you one of dto, photex, gpadd, dto?
2016-06-15T22:12:24Z axion: no, but i have full access to the group
2016-06-15T22:12:41Z axion: or organization, whatever github calls them
2016-06-15T22:13:49Z loke: re
2016-06-15T22:13:56Z loke: Good evening Lisp
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