2015-12-16T00:07:12Z mishoo__ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-12-16T00:09:22Z crusty_willy joined #lisp 2015-12-16T00:09:52Z crusty_willy: May someone teach me Big O, Theta and Gamma Notation? 2015-12-16T00:09:53Z BIGBOOMBA: So, I have a function ("foo") that I've compiled, and I'm trying to debug it. Entering (trace #'foo) at the REPL results in "WARNING: #'foo is not a valid function name, not tracing." 2015-12-16T00:09:56Z BIGBOOMBA: What am I missing here? 2015-12-16T00:11:04Z Jesin joined #lisp 2015-12-16T00:11:30Z BIGBOOMBA: Tried (load "foofile.lisp"), which SLIME had no problem with, but SBCL still won't trace foo. 2015-12-16T00:11:54Z phoe_krk quit (Quit: http://phoe-krk.tumblr.com/) 2015-12-16T00:12:07Z BIGBOOMBA: Tried it with another function in the file; SBCL won't trace anything. 2015-12-16T00:13:01Z BIGBOOMBA: Nevermind, I got it. It's (trace foo), not (trace #'foo) 2015-12-16T00:13:53Z blub: (trace foo) 2015-12-16T00:13:57Z crusty_willy left #lisp 2015-12-16T00:13:58Z blub: oh 2015-12-16T00:17:15Z BIGBOOMBA: Thanks, blub :) Sometimes you have to guess what LISP wants. 2015-12-16T00:17:47Z BIGBOOMBA: (I mean, you could read the manual(s) front-to-back, but often your second or third guess will be right.) 2015-12-16T00:18:07Z Xach_: you will get better if you read the manuals front to back 2015-12-16T00:18:52Z BIGBOOMBA: Undoubtedly. That's several thousand pages, though. Can't just not program while I'm working on R'ing TFM(s). 2015-12-16T00:19:59Z PuercoPop: BIGBOOMBA: Slime's manual on tracing is way less than thousand of pages. 2015-12-16T00:20:25Z Xach_: Something to do during lunchtimes! 2015-12-16T00:21:18Z BIGBOOMBA: Puerco: Sure, I just meant that programmers use so many tools (languages, libraries, editors, platforms, etc.) that reading all the relevant manuals front to back can take quite a while. 2015-12-16T00:22:15Z BIGBOOMBA: Taken to the extreme, since almost all software lives on / uses the internet nowadays, we should all also read all ~100 of the approved Internet Standards front to back. 2015-12-16T00:22:34Z jleija joined #lisp 2015-12-16T00:22:40Z BIGBOOMBA: One day I'll probably have done both of those things, but you have to continue to work and experiment as you learn. 2015-12-16T00:23:48Z BIGBOOMBA: I know a guy (network admin) who has probably read and understood all of the Internet Standards (plus a bunch of standards-track RFCs), and he's basically a wizard. 2015-12-16T00:30:58Z Yuuhi quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T00:31:04Z vaporatorius quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-12-16T00:36:11Z yvm joined #lisp 2015-12-16T00:38:23Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-12-16T00:44:00Z phoe_krk joined #lisp 2015-12-16T00:46:30Z wallyduchamp joined #lisp 2015-12-16T00:49:54Z ajf- joined #lisp 2015-12-16T00:53:10Z scymtym_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-12-16T00:59:57Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp 2015-12-16T01:00:53Z jasom: clhs trace 2015-12-16T01:00:54Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_tracec.htm 2015-12-16T01:01:16Z jasom: BIGBOOMBA: you can read the manual front-to-back eventually (I recommend that, it's quite accessible) but until then you can still search ^^^ 2015-12-16T01:01:26Z ajf- quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-12-16T01:02:15Z jasom: In this case the link that specbot posted says it takes a "function name" which includes a link to the glossary which will tell you exactly what a function name is 2015-12-16T01:07:18Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/) 2015-12-16T01:13:12Z pjb: Better than having read all the RFC, having implemented at least half of them (preferably in lisp). 2015-12-16T01:20:22Z mikos quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-12-16T01:21:25Z Xach joined #lisp 2015-12-16T01:22:04Z zdm joined #lisp 2015-12-16T01:23:02Z Xach_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-12-16T01:24:02Z jasom: is it possible to ignore variables in list-destructures in loop? 2015-12-16T01:24:12Z Xach: jasom: yes, using NIL 2015-12-16T01:24:56Z NeverDie joined #lisp 2015-12-16T01:26:18Z jasom: Xach: thanks 2015-12-16T01:29:41Z toomuchtvrotsurb joined #lisp 2015-12-16T01:35:08Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp 2015-12-16T01:38:49Z toomuchtvrotsurb quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T01:38:51Z BIGBOOMBA quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-12-16T01:38:56Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-12-16T01:41:11Z ajf- joined #lisp 2015-12-16T01:41:18Z cgore joined #lisp 2015-12-16T01:46:44Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T01:48:51Z cgore quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-12-16T01:50:02Z cgore joined #lisp 2015-12-16T01:52:39Z duggiefresh joined #lisp 2015-12-16T01:53:08Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T01:57:45Z failproofshark quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T01:59:36Z noark9 joined #lisp 2015-12-16T02:00:50Z failproofshark joined #lisp 2015-12-16T02:03:55Z Xach_ joined #lisp 2015-12-16T02:05:15Z Xach quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-16T02:08:41Z arescorpio joined #lisp 2015-12-16T02:11:17Z pxth50 joined #lisp 2015-12-16T02:12:13Z ajf- quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-12-16T02:15:47Z Xach joined #lisp 2015-12-16T02:16:25Z Xach_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2015-12-16T02:17:42Z Xach quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-16T02:19:49Z beach joined #lisp 2015-12-16T02:19:57Z beach: Good morning everyone! 2015-12-16T02:20:12Z nyef: Hello beach. 2015-12-16T02:20:36Z FreeBird_ joined #lisp 2015-12-16T02:20:46Z Xach joined #lisp 2015-12-16T02:22:14Z Fare: beach: quelle heure est-il? 2015-12-16T02:22:16Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-12-16T02:22:31Z beach: Don't ask. I woke up way too early. 2015-12-16T02:22:46Z beach: [it's 03:20] 2015-12-16T02:22:57Z Fare: c'est l'heure du marteau: marteler sur mon clavier jusqu'à ce que cette saleté de chapitre 7 soit finie. 2015-12-16T02:23:00Z moredhel quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T02:23:14Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-12-16T02:23:16Z Fare: beach: you can go back to bed, too. 2015-12-16T02:23:33Z beach: No point. I'll just do the same thing there, but without the keyboard. 2015-12-16T02:23:40Z toomuchtvrotsurb joined #lisp 2015-12-16T02:24:07Z aap_ joined #lisp 2015-12-16T02:24:16Z duggiefresh joined #lisp 2015-12-16T02:27:30Z aap quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-12-16T02:28:11Z pxth50 left #lisp 2015-12-16T02:30:22Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T02:31:00Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2015-12-16T02:32:10Z cmack`` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2015-12-16T02:33:41Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T02:34:40Z warweasle joined #lisp 2015-12-16T02:36:45Z zdm quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-12-16T02:37:59Z bsima left #lisp 2015-12-16T02:38:22Z mac_ified joined #lisp 2015-12-16T02:40:42Z bsima joined #lisp 2015-12-16T02:42:56Z bb010g joined #lisp 2015-12-16T02:43:35Z hellekin quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2015-12-16T02:49:36Z defaultxr joined #lisp 2015-12-16T02:50:12Z moredhel joined #lisp 2015-12-16T02:50:42Z aretecode quit (Quit: Toodaloo) 2015-12-16T02:51:59Z spacebat` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T03:00:30Z zdm joined #lisp 2015-12-16T03:04:03Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-16T03:07:55Z taij33n- quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-16T03:13:12Z taij33n joined #lisp 2015-12-16T03:13:34Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2015-12-16T03:16:06Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp 2015-12-16T03:17:06Z reb`` quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-12-16T03:17:46Z loke: It's funny to see that Bigboompa thought that the internet standards were only a hundred or so documents. 2015-12-16T03:18:22Z loke: Just the RFC's is up to 7720. 2015-12-16T03:18:43Z spacebat` joined #lisp 2015-12-16T03:19:41Z Zhivago: Well, many of them are obsolete or silly. 2015-12-16T03:20:41Z Bike: or stuff like irc that isn't "internet" per say 2015-12-16T03:22:19Z Bike: plus stuff you need for the internet would include, i dunno, DOCSIS, that isn't an rfc 2015-12-16T03:25:31Z Zhivago: I'd put IRC under silly, myself. :) 2015-12-16T03:27:55Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-16T03:29:43Z Denommus joined #lisp 2015-12-16T03:31:53Z duggiefresh joined #lisp 2015-12-16T03:33:49Z msb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-16T03:33:57Z loke: Bike: It's "per se", not "per say" :-) 2015-12-16T03:34:22Z Bike: says you! 2015-12-16T03:34:37Z loke: Says Wikipedia! 2015-12-16T03:34:45Z zdm_ joined #lisp 2015-12-16T03:35:12Z Zhivago: Because Latin. 2015-12-16T03:35:16Z loke: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/per_se 2015-12-16T03:35:49Z Bike: it's perfectly cromulent 2015-12-16T03:37:30Z zdm quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-12-16T03:37:51Z msb joined #lisp 2015-12-16T03:38:44Z duggiefresh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T03:41:47Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2015-12-16T03:44:09Z loke: That's flummadiddle 2015-12-16T03:46:30Z zdm_ quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1) 2015-12-16T03:50:45Z harish_ joined #lisp 2015-12-16T03:52:06Z Denommus quit (Quit: going home) 2015-12-16T03:54:57Z AlphaAtom: is there a builtin that to check if two lists are equal, ignoring order? (common lisp) 2015-12-16T03:55:55Z ep quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2015-12-16T03:56:16Z AlphaAtom: like (X Y) would be equal to (Y X) 2015-12-16T03:56:17Z pillton: No. There is a function in alexandria called alexandria:set-equal. 2015-12-16T03:57:44Z mbuf joined #lisp 2015-12-16T03:57:51Z Bike: or you can do (and (set-difference a b) (set-difference b a)), though it's kinda sucky 2015-12-16T03:58:06Z Bike: (not (set-difference ..)) i mean 2015-12-16T03:58:28Z pillton: intersection and length checking should be ok too. 2015-12-16T03:59:58Z AlphaAtom: awesome, thank you both :) 2015-12-16T04:00:45Z pillton: minion: tell AlphaAtom about Alexandria 2015-12-16T04:00:46Z minion: Alexandria: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/Alexandria 2015-12-16T04:02:09Z AlphaAtom: Thanks, this is only small though so the intersection thing will work fine 2015-12-16T04:04:29Z harish_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-12-16T04:04:53Z Fare: you can sort the lists first. 2015-12-16T04:08:22Z lisse joined #lisp 2015-12-16T04:08:23Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-12-16T04:14:39Z lambda-11235 joined #lisp 2015-12-16T04:16:06Z lambda-11235 left #lisp 2015-12-16T04:17:54Z arescorpio quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-12-16T04:18:50Z loke: How about sorting and then comparing? 2015-12-16T04:18:58Z loke: (equal (sort x) (sort y)) 2015-12-16T04:20:29Z cgore quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-12-16T04:21:19Z sjl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-16T04:22:14Z BitPuffin|osx quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-12-16T04:23:09Z sjl joined #lisp 2015-12-16T04:23:11Z beach: loke: I think that's what Fare had in mind. 2015-12-16T04:24:16Z beach: loke: SORT takes another argument, though. 2015-12-16T04:24:39Z loke: ok, ok :-) 2015-12-16T04:24:54Z beach: But that technique assumes that the elements are part of an ordered domain. 2015-12-16T04:24:59Z loke: It is true though, that for that trick to work, the elements needs to have a total ordering. 2015-12-16T04:25:33Z loke: beach: Yes, but if not, then the comparison is O(n^2) which suggests that one might want to find a different solution altogether. 2015-12-16T04:25:51Z beach: AlphaAtom said that the lists are short. 2015-12-16T04:26:55Z AlphaAtom: the lists are unlikely to be more than length 2-3 so complexity is no bother here :) 2015-12-16T04:27:14Z Bike: we could also print out the lists and send them to amazon's mechanical turk. probably constant time, amortized 2015-12-16T04:27:22Z beach: AlphaAtom: Yes, but this is #lisp so we always find things to argue about. 2015-12-16T04:27:54Z loke: 𝜪(n²) if one wants ot be fancy 2015-12-16T04:28:32Z cmack`` joined #lisp 2015-12-16T04:28:41Z yeticry joined #lisp 2015-12-16T04:28:44Z yeticry_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-16T04:29:21Z pillton is reminded of Monty Python - Argument Clinic. 2015-12-16T04:29:55Z loke: pillton: No, you're not actually reminded of that. 2015-12-16T04:30:08Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-12-16T04:32:40Z mbuf quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.5.2) 2015-12-16T04:32:55Z cmack`` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-16T04:33:11Z mbuf joined #lisp 2015-12-16T04:33:50Z voidlily_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-12-16T04:35:22Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2015-12-16T04:35:31Z voidlily_ joined #lisp 2015-12-16T04:43:29Z jleija quit (Quit: leaving) 2015-12-16T04:43:45Z procyon_ember left #lisp 2015-12-16T04:45:16Z Jesin joined #lisp 2015-12-16T04:47:57Z toomuchtvrotsurb quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T04:48:08Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-12-16T05:01:36Z Sucks quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-16T05:01:37Z zdm joined #lisp 2015-12-16T05:07:07Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/) 2015-12-16T05:14:42Z nzambe quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client) 2015-12-16T05:16:18Z nzambe joined #lisp 2015-12-16T05:20:14Z toomuchtvrotsurb joined #lisp 2015-12-16T05:22:04Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-12-16T05:23:16Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp 2015-12-16T05:25:25Z toomuchtvrotsurb quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2015-12-16T05:26:53Z skali joined #lisp 2015-12-16T05:27:30Z lisse joined #lisp 2015-12-16T05:29:44Z BlueRavenGT quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-16T05:34:03Z oleo_ quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2015-12-16T05:35:23Z warweasle quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T05:37:29Z zdm quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1) 2015-12-16T05:38:13Z myrkraverk: Is there a string-starts-with function? Or do I have to roll my own? 2015-12-16T05:38:41Z fe[nl]ix: in alexandria 2015-12-16T05:38:58Z pillton: myrkfraverk: alexandria:starts-with-subseq 2015-12-16T05:39:28Z myrkraverk: I thought alexandria was a mythical place with a lost library. 2015-12-16T05:40:41Z s00pcan quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T05:41:42Z zdm joined #lisp 2015-12-16T05:44:21Z papachan quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-16T05:47:21Z papachan_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-12-16T05:47:47Z Bike: it's not mythical, just ancient 2015-12-16T05:48:25Z Bike: well, the library is ancient. the city has several million people living in it 2015-12-16T05:48:26Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-12-16T05:52:05Z zacharias_ joined #lisp 2015-12-16T05:52:50Z IPmonger quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2015-12-16T05:53:03Z nyef: Which city? Weren't there several established with that name? 2015-12-16T05:53:06Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-16T05:53:16Z malbertife joined #lisp 2015-12-16T05:53:21Z IPmonger joined #lisp 2015-12-16T05:53:46Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-12-16T05:54:27Z Bike: alexandria in egypt. pretty sure the modern one is in roughly the same place as the one with the library and lighthouse and such. 2015-12-16T05:54:46Z wallyduchamp quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T05:55:00Z Bike: i'm sure alexander founded/renamed lots of places after himself, though. 2015-12-16T05:55:21Z nyef: IIRC, it's a female name, after somebody's daughter. 2015-12-16T05:56:07Z zacharias joined #lisp 2015-12-16T05:56:40Z zacharias_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-12-16T05:57:08Z habs joined #lisp 2015-12-16T06:00:16Z Bike: alexandra is, but a city named alexandria by alexander, i mean. 2015-12-16T06:00:20Z |3b| quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T06:00:45Z habs: Hi, I'm very new to lisp (using elisp) and trying to test a function that gets the last element of a list. Here is the code: http://sprunge.us/aMfM?cl Problem is the test fails with "Symbol's value as variable is void: d". What am I doing wrong in the test? 2015-12-16T06:01:38Z Bike: you have (= whatever d), so it tries to evaluate d. you want (= whatever 'd) (or actually, since they're not numbers, you want (eql whatever 'd)) 2015-12-16T06:01:55Z nyef: That said, this really isn't an elisp channel. 2015-12-16T06:02:39Z Bike: oh i was wondering why it said "cl-assert"! gotta read closer i do 2015-12-16T06:03:02Z beach: habs: Also, if you are going to submit code for people to read, you should make sure it is properly indented. Lisp programmers don't count parentheses but rely on indentation. 2015-12-16T06:03:06Z nyef: Bike: The test failure message is also a clue. 2015-12-16T06:03:18Z habs: Bike: Ah, I tried that before but I was getting a type error but now I see that = is just for numbers, thanks so much! 2015-12-16T06:03:38Z Bike: yeah, i was wondering about that also. 2015-12-16T06:04:12Z habs: Well I tried it with (cl-assert (eql (my-last '(a b c d)) 'd)) and now I get "Assertion failed: (eql (my-last (quote (a b c d))) (quote d))"? What is the problem now, is the function not correct? 2015-12-16T06:04:22Z Bike: Seems so. 2015-12-16T06:04:37Z nyef: I hesitate to suggest another channel because I'm not involved in any channels for other lisps, not even emacs-lisp. 2015-12-16T06:04:46Z Bike: oh, yes, your function is wrong. 2015-12-16T06:05:06Z jegaxd26 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-12-16T06:05:29Z Bike: it does what CL last does, though. how about that. 2015-12-16T06:05:31Z vlatkoB joined #lisp 2015-12-16T06:05:49Z habs: beach: OK I can reupload it with a better indentation, what style tends to be preferred? 2015-12-16T06:05:56Z nyef: So... (equal (my-last '(a b c d)) '(d)) ? 2015-12-16T06:06:04Z Bike: if you look at the result value the problem will probably be obvious. or nyef could tell you. 2015-12-16T06:06:13Z beach: habs: If you want it to return the last element, you need to return (car list) rather than list when tail is null. On the other hand, the Common Lisp function named TAIL returns the last CONS cell and not the last element. 2015-12-16T06:06:34Z habs: nyef: I tried that (with the parens around d) and it still gives the assertion error. 2015-12-16T06:06:57Z spacebat`: s/TAIL/LAST/ 2015-12-16T06:07:17Z nyef: Note the equality predicate used. I have no idea if it's the same for emacs-lisp, but common lisp has a huge number of equality predicates for a reason. 2015-12-16T06:07:36Z nyef: (Have a look for the article "equal rights (and wrongs) in lisp", if you're curious.) 2015-12-16T06:07:39Z beach: habs: The style you get when you indent your lines properly. There is no way that line 5 was properly indented, because the indentation suggests that it is outside the IF and the LET. 2015-12-16T06:07:44Z spacebat`: elisp is pretty similar for predicates to CL 2015-12-16T06:08:00Z Bike: beach: kind of tautologous, don't you think 2015-12-16T06:08:26Z beach: Bike: I am open to better suggestions. 2015-12-16T06:08:34Z habs: beach: Oh OK, I made that change and now the assert passes, thank you so much! 2015-12-16T06:08:39Z nyef: "A tautology is that which is tautological"? 2015-12-16T06:10:32Z habs: beach: Oh yea, just looked at the pastebin and that actually seems like a mistake, in my editor that line is indented 2 spaces more than line 4 sorry 2015-12-16T06:10:44Z Bike: i think it's... #emacs, for elisp? dunno 2015-12-16T06:11:34Z nyef: Bike: I'd expect so, but I hesitate to make the recommendation given that I don't frequent the channel. 2015-12-16T06:12:20Z beach: habs: Any reason for using Emacs Lisp rather than Common Lisp? 2015-12-16T06:12:23Z nyef: It could turn out to be for the embedded mannequin autonomic control system or something, for example. 2015-12-16T06:13:10Z nyef: (Though why an embedded mannequin would need an autonomic control system is beyond me.) 2015-12-16T06:14:35Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-16T06:15:26Z habs: beach: Not particularly, I read Steven Levy's "Hackers" and Sam Williams' "Free as in Freedom" recently and I liked the story of Emacs so I figured learning elisp would be a good way to understand how it works 2015-12-16T06:16:53Z beach: I see. Clearly, if the purpose is to understand how Emacs works, then Emacs Lisp is preferable. 2015-12-16T06:20:47Z habs: I also liked the whole "race for a lisp machine" in the 70s/80s part but there wasn't a lot of followup; is there anything similar to a lisp machine today with modern hardware? 2015-12-16T06:21:27Z Bike: nah. asking for special hardware instead of just making a general machine is out of vogue. 2015-12-16T06:21:33Z beach: habs: It is no longer desired to have a special instruction set. Stock hardware is fine for implementing Lisp these days. 2015-12-16T06:21:35Z mea-culpa quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-16T06:21:56Z beach: habs: Most good Common Lisp implementations compile to native code on the fly. 2015-12-16T06:23:43Z Yuuhi joined #lisp 2015-12-16T06:25:51Z beach: habs: As opposed to Emacs Lisp, which compiles to bytecode which is then interpreted by a C program. 2015-12-16T06:26:16Z wallyduchamp joined #lisp 2015-12-16T06:26:34Z nyef: Does emacs lisp have a JIT these days? It sometimes seems like everything has one, after all? 2015-12-16T06:27:03Z beach: Oh, maybe so. I have been out of the loop for quite some time. 2015-12-16T06:27:26Z Bike: there's a GNU JIT project, forget what it was for, though. maybe guile 2015-12-16T06:28:27Z Zhivago: Lightning has experimental support in clisp, iirc. 2015-12-16T06:29:18Z cmack`` joined #lisp 2015-12-16T06:30:49Z spacebat`: no emacs JIT, but I hear there's a branch for one 2015-12-16T06:34:01Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2015-12-16T06:34:20Z cmack`` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-12-16T06:36:16Z Zhivago: It will be interesting to see if they start optimizing hardware for javascript rather than C. 2015-12-16T06:36:58Z jackdaniel: Zhivago: it was foreseen ^_^ https://www.destroyallsoftware.com/talks/the-birth-and-death-of-javascript 2015-12-16T06:38:23Z nyef: Heh. Yeah, that was a good talk. 2015-12-16T06:38:41Z nyef: (I watched the video a while back.) 2015-12-16T06:38:49Z Zhivago: Javascript; the most successful lisp. :) 2015-12-16T06:39:05Z nyef: Mmm. Too bad it's such a lousy language. 2015-12-16T06:39:54Z Zhivago: It's actually pretty close to most lisps -- the minor detail of implicit conversion distracts everyone. 2015-12-16T06:41:16Z reb`` joined #lisp 2015-12-16T06:47:28Z futpib joined #lisp 2015-12-16T06:48:20Z qubitnerd joined #lisp 2015-12-16T06:49:16Z flambard joined #lisp 2015-12-16T06:50:52Z habs: Hm, I think I'm having another problem with the assert statement. Tried to test this function which gets the last 2 elements of a list: http://sprunge.us/jZNY?cl The assert fails, but if I just eval (my-but-last '(a b c d)) I get (c d) so I'm not sure what the problem is? 2015-12-16T06:51:30Z nyef: You're still using EQL in your assertion. EQL does not do what you need for CONSes (lists). 2015-12-16T06:52:53Z Fare: quick survey: who would go to an ILC in Tokyo in October 2016? 2015-12-16T06:53:05Z Fare: (not officially agreed upon yet) 2015-12-16T06:53:21Z beach: I would go. 2015-12-16T06:55:05Z Fare: :-) 2015-12-16T06:55:40Z habs: nyef: OK thanks, it worked to use eql earlier with just one element but now with lists I see I need to use equals and it works now 2015-12-16T06:55:46Z wolfcore joined #lisp 2015-12-16T06:57:38Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-12-16T06:58:49Z wolfcore: Is CL *the* lisp for AI? I know it's what AIMA uses. 2015-12-16T06:59:52Z Bike: what's the choice of programming language matter to AI? beyond general considerations like whether it's nice to program in. 2015-12-16T07:00:02Z wolfcore: Bike: libraries, mostly 2015-12-16T07:00:14Z wolfcore: I myself like writing Racket 2015-12-16T07:00:22Z wallyduchamp quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-12-16T07:01:16Z jegaxd26 joined #lisp 2015-12-16T07:01:47Z jackdaniel: wolfcore: for libraries a decent ffi is enough. CL has good ffi for C ABI (basically any shared object in a system will do) 2015-12-16T07:03:35Z nyef: jackdaniel: CL has NO standard FFI. Implementations do, and there are portability layers, but there is no guarantee of an FFI at all. 2015-12-16T07:04:11Z Fare: in practice, cffi is pretty portable 2015-12-16T07:04:22Z jackdaniel: nyef: yes, CL doesn't have also threading nor OS interface. I'm talking about what works, not what is guranteed 2015-12-16T07:04:28Z nyef: Okay, fair enough. 2015-12-16T07:04:35Z H4ns: in practice, CL and AI are disparate topics nowadays. 2015-12-16T07:04:37Z FreeBird_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T07:04:44Z Bike: racket has ffi, anyway, i'm sure 2015-12-16T07:04:52Z namespace: I really feel like CL needs a new version of the standard. 2015-12-16T07:04:53Z Fare: it does 2015-12-16T07:05:01Z namespace: For things like FFI and Networking and etc. 2015-12-16T07:05:04Z Fare: it's not cl, then 2015-12-16T07:05:20Z jackdaniel: (1+ cl) ; ,hue 2015-12-16T07:05:48Z namespace: You're saying if you take all the old CL stuff, and add new stuff it would no longer be CL? By that definition none of the CL implementations worth a damn are CL. 2015-12-16T07:05:52Z beach: How many language standards have networking specified in them? 2015-12-16T07:06:00Z namespace: beach: Hm, fair. 2015-12-16T07:06:02Z jegaxd26 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-12-16T07:06:05Z namespace: Then again. 2015-12-16T07:06:21Z namespace: Lots of languages have a de-facto standard in the reference implementation. But there is no reference implementation of CL. 2015-12-16T07:06:45Z jackdaniel: CL has very decent portability libraries for many things not covered by a standard 2015-12-16T07:06:54Z namespace shrugs 2015-12-16T07:07:01Z H4ns: namespace: there will be no update of the cl standard because there is no commercial interest in cl. the cl standard was created just because there was commercial interest. 2015-12-16T07:07:01Z beach: Languages with only a de-facto reference implementation should not be used for serious programming work. 2015-12-16T07:07:06Z nyef: Any language with a reference implementation that is still being maintained effectively has not standard. 2015-12-16T07:07:15Z Quadrescence: namespace, I don't think it needs a new standard for the core language, it just needs standard libraries, as an addendum to the standard 2015-12-16T07:07:22Z namespace: Quadrescence: Sure. 2015-12-16T07:07:47Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-12-16T07:07:52Z Quadrescence: But nonetheless, you can get pretty far today even without standard libraries. 2015-12-16T07:08:05Z Quadrescence: Like with BORDEAUX-THREADS, TRIVIAL-GARBAGE, etc. 2015-12-16T07:08:10Z beach left #lisp 2015-12-16T07:08:18Z ryan_vw joined #lisp 2015-12-16T07:08:37Z namespace: I mean it's not strictly necessary, but it would help solve a lot of coordination issues especially for newcomers. 2015-12-16T07:08:40Z Quadrescence: The only thing I've run into issues with consistently are GUIs, but that doesn't belong in a standard, that just requires an enormous amount of volunteer work. 2015-12-16T07:10:02Z jackdaniel imagines PCL continuation "Pragmatic Common Lisp" which would concentrate on popular libraries used by day-to-day CL programmers 2015-12-16T07:12:10Z Quadrescence: I don't think more books and websites will help. 2015-12-16T07:12:37Z Quadrescence: I think having really good documentation and easy access to those docs would help. 2015-12-16T07:13:10Z Quadrescence: And not documentation spread across fifty different domains, some of which are available, some of which aren't. 2015-12-16T07:13:23Z zdm quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-12-16T07:13:38Z justsomeguy joined #lisp 2015-12-16T07:13:38Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2015-12-16T07:14:22Z Quadrescence: I typed "python library documentation" on Google and got: https://docs.python.org/2.7/library/index.html 2015-12-16T07:14:54Z Quadrescence: For Lisp, I get https://www.quicklisp.org/beta/UNOFFICIAL/docs/ 2015-12-16T07:15:07Z Quadrescence: most links are 1/2 baked, inconsistent, ugly, unhelpful, out of date, etc. 2015-12-16T07:15:29Z Quadrescence: And most of them don't even have a link to documentation. 2015-12-16T07:15:30Z jackdaniel: there is also http://quickdocs.org/ 2015-12-16T07:15:39Z jackdaniel: as an effort to bring that 2015-12-16T07:15:45Z jackdaniel: to the table 2015-12-16T07:15:51Z Quadrescence: Quickdocs gives me autogenerated API docs. 2015-12-16T07:16:05Z jackdaniel: http://quickdocs.org/translate/ <- not always 2015-12-16T07:16:07Z Quadrescence: Lisp has enough of that too, autogenerated junk that people like to gawk at but never use or read. 2015-12-16T07:16:21Z Quadrescence: That's a slight improvement. 2015-12-16T07:16:26Z jackdaniel: if there is documentation, it scraps it nicely (it looks like that at least) 2015-12-16T07:17:17Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T07:17:26Z namespace: Quadrescence: Don't forget tutorials. 2015-12-16T07:18:51Z Quadrescence: I don't know. I guess it has been my impression that there's tons of tutorial material out there. But I guess it would be nice if there were more focused tutorials, and not everyone's own "intro to CL" tutorial. 2015-12-16T07:19:41Z Quadrescence: E.g., a tutorial on networking 2015-12-16T07:19:55Z Quadrescence: (here is a very technical tutorial on that subject by Peter Keller: http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~psilord/blog/data/iolib-tutorial/tutorial.html ) 2015-12-16T07:20:06Z skali quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-16T07:20:09Z jackdaniel: in general I agree with you Quadrescence – many libraries has very scarce (if at all) documentation and it's one of the biggest issues 2015-12-16T07:20:45Z zdm joined #lisp 2015-12-16T07:21:04Z Quadrescence: jackdaniel, I think it's okay for a lot of the small libraries to not have docs. I mean, it's of course better if they do, but it's not as bad as not having good docs for major things in a consistent fashion, like for networking or other "batteries included" things. 2015-12-16T07:21:30Z jackdaniel: there is also a project which aims to provide such thing is http://www.learnlispthehardway.org/ 2015-12-16T07:22:20Z jackdaniel: s/g is/g –/ 2015-12-16T07:23:09Z Quadrescence: jackdaniel, I will be happy to see that when it doesn't look like most Lisp projects, e.g., "unfinished Work-In-Progress". :) 2015-12-16T07:23:29Z jackdaniel: yep : 2015-12-16T07:23:30Z jackdaniel: :) 2015-12-16T07:23:52Z Fare: Who here would go to an ILC 2016 in Boston? in Tokyo? in neither? (Around october) 2015-12-16T07:26:14Z p_l: possible chance for me, got Visa to both countries ... do far 2015-12-16T07:26:17Z p_l: *do 2015-12-16T07:26:33Z p_l: ... mobile phone typing is not my friend 2015-12-16T07:32:10Z toomuchtvrotsurb joined #lisp 2015-12-16T07:32:51Z Quadrescence: Fare, Wonder if a poll could be set up. 2015-12-16T07:34:00Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp 2015-12-16T07:39:09Z myrkraverk: I'm closer to Tokyo, so I guess I'd rather go there. 2015-12-16T07:39:25Z myrkraverk: But please don't decide the venue on my vote. 2015-12-16T07:42:18Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-12-16T07:43:47Z kushal joined #lisp 2015-12-16T07:43:48Z Fare: Quadrescence, twitter now has polls... 2015-12-16T07:43:57Z Quadrescence: Fare, Interesting! 2015-12-16T07:44:22Z Fare: but 24 hours only, I believe. A Google poll is also possible. 2015-12-16T07:44:35Z reb`` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-16T07:44:39Z myrkraverk: And no ppoll nor epoll, I guess. 2015-12-16T07:46:11Z reggy quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T07:47:05Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2015-12-16T07:47:33Z sunwukong quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-12-16T07:48:24Z Fare: at least it's not select 2015-12-16T07:48:29Z Fare quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-12-16T07:48:47Z Nikotiini joined #lisp 2015-12-16T07:48:57Z xrash quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T07:53:40Z Xach_ joined #lisp 2015-12-16T07:54:46Z Xach quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-12-16T07:55:44Z ACE_Recliner quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-12-16T07:57:41Z ee_cc joined #lisp 2015-12-16T08:00:49Z mishoo__ joined #lisp 2015-12-16T08:01:00Z hitecnologys quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-12-16T08:05:04Z dreamaddict quit (Quit: dreamaddict) 2015-12-16T08:07:38Z Desmaad joined #lisp 2015-12-16T08:08:21Z eazar001 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-16T08:08:31Z AlphaAtom quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-12-16T08:08:54Z eazar001 joined #lisp 2015-12-16T08:09:43Z Beetny joined #lisp 2015-12-16T08:12:03Z cadadar joined #lisp 2015-12-16T08:14:54Z aap_ is now known as aap 2015-12-16T08:15:24Z justsomeguy quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-12-16T08:16:13Z reb`` joined #lisp 2015-12-16T08:17:13Z toomuchtvrotsurb quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T08:18:08Z justsomeguy joined #lisp 2015-12-16T08:22:47Z kami joined #lisp 2015-12-16T08:22:58Z kami: Good morning. 2015-12-16T08:23:47Z psy_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T08:25:52Z toomuchtvrotsurb joined #lisp 2015-12-16T08:27:27Z toomuchtvrotsurb quit (Client Quit) 2015-12-16T08:27:45Z iddqd joined #lisp 2015-12-16T08:28:09Z Desmaad quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T08:29:46Z Guest20174 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-16T08:30:07Z cmack`` joined #lisp 2015-12-16T08:32:01Z Cymew joined #lisp 2015-12-16T08:35:00Z cmack`` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2015-12-16T08:39:44Z Guest20174 joined #lisp 2015-12-16T08:44:24Z Guest20174 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-12-16T08:45:10Z angavrilov joined #lisp 2015-12-16T08:45:35Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp 2015-12-16T08:53:19Z tajjada quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2015-12-16T08:56:24Z Guest20174 joined #lisp 2015-12-16T08:58:07Z mac_ified quit 2015-12-16T08:59:22Z anti-freeze joined #lisp 2015-12-16T09:06:26Z zdm quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-16T09:06:50Z psy_ joined #lisp 2015-12-16T09:07:20Z TMM quit (Quit: Ex-Chat) 2015-12-16T09:14:13Z defaultxr quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T09:15:41Z mikos joined #lisp 2015-12-16T09:17:10Z freehck joined #lisp 2015-12-16T09:19:17Z Oladon quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-16T09:19:23Z noark9 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-12-16T09:19:27Z _main_ joined #lisp 2015-12-16T09:19:51Z przl joined #lisp 2015-12-16T09:21:48Z shookees joined #lisp 2015-12-16T09:22:12Z __main__ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-12-16T09:23:30Z _main_ is now known as __main__ 2015-12-16T09:26:25Z hitecnologys joined #lisp 2015-12-16T09:28:39Z skali joined #lisp 2015-12-16T09:29:11Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-12-16T09:31:16Z hitecnologys quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-12-16T09:40:03Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T09:40:55Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2015-12-16T09:42:09Z przl joined #lisp 2015-12-16T09:42:29Z anti-freeze joined #lisp 2015-12-16T09:42:36Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T09:43:39Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2015-12-16T09:45:17Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T09:45:46Z FreeBirdLjj joined #lisp 2015-12-16T09:46:04Z smokeink quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T09:47:37Z TMM joined #lisp 2015-12-16T09:48:40Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-12-16T09:49:28Z __main__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-16T09:49:29Z kami quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-12-16T09:50:28Z __main__ joined #lisp 2015-12-16T09:50:56Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-12-16T09:51:07Z Jonsky joined #lisp 2015-12-16T09:52:07Z Jonsky: Question: Why (funcall 'cons 1 2) also works? I thought (funcall ) only takes function objects? 2015-12-16T09:53:09Z jackdaniel: Jonsky: cons is a function 2015-12-16T09:53:27Z _main_ joined #lisp 2015-12-16T09:53:34Z jackdaniel: #'cons 2015-12-16T09:53:39Z phoe_krk quit (Quit: http://phoe-krk.tumblr.com/) 2015-12-16T09:54:11Z jackdaniel: if you ask, why it works with the quote (like using 'cons instead of #'cons), it's a feature of the funcall 2015-12-16T09:54:26Z harish_ joined #lisp 2015-12-16T09:54:28Z Jonsky: I know (funcall #'cons 1 2) works but (funcall 'cons 1 2) somehow also works? This is confusing 2015-12-16T09:54:57Z jackdaniel: funcall applies function to args. If function is a symbol, it is coerced to a function as if by finding its functional value in the global environment. 2015-12-16T09:55:02Z jackdaniel: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_funcal.htm (from here) 2015-12-16T09:55:15Z Cymew: Yeah, that was intriguing. Odd little corner of FUNCALL. 2015-12-16T09:55:39Z Jonsky: Ah ha, thanks jackdaniel 2015-12-16T09:55:44Z jackdaniel: yw 2015-12-16T09:56:06Z __main__ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-16T09:56:10Z Jonsky: I guess I have to upload the whole hyperspec to my brain. Sad life. 2015-12-16T09:56:54Z _main_ is now known as __main__ 2015-12-16T09:57:06Z jackdaniel: Jonsky: if you have doubt about the funcall, then just check the funcall 2015-12-16T09:57:29Z Jonsky: Earlier I was trying to do something resembles Scheme like ((if (plusp 7) cons +) 3 5). But I reckon that there is no way I can do that without funcall. 2015-12-16T09:58:41Z flip214: Jonsky: you could use a reader macro, or some other macro that translates that. 2015-12-16T10:00:11Z jonh quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2) 2015-12-16T10:00:57Z Jonsky: flip214: Guess it's a good opportunity to play with macros then. 2015-12-16T10:01:17Z cyraxjoe quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-12-16T10:02:54Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp 2015-12-16T10:05:14Z harish_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-12-16T10:05:15Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-12-16T10:08:10Z justsomeguy quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-12-16T10:09:15Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2015-12-16T10:09:15Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 2015-12-16T10:09:15Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2015-12-16T10:09:49Z justsomeguy joined #lisp 2015-12-16T10:10:40Z Jonsky quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2015-12-16T10:10:57Z zacharias joined #lisp 2015-12-16T10:12:21Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-12-16T10:14:40Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T10:16:16Z przl joined #lisp 2015-12-16T10:22:59Z reb`` quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-12-16T10:26:32Z smokeink joined #lisp 2015-12-16T10:31:10Z skali quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-12-16T10:31:14Z cmack`` joined #lisp 2015-12-16T10:31:38Z hitecnologys joined #lisp 2015-12-16T10:31:59Z zymurgy joined #lisp 2015-12-16T10:32:41Z gravicappa joined #lisp 2015-12-16T10:33:43Z psy_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T10:33:51Z iddqd quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2015-12-16T10:35:35Z cmack`` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-16T10:37:27Z phoe_krk joined #lisp 2015-12-16T10:40:47Z sz0 quit (Quit: Bye.) 2015-12-16T10:42:14Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T10:43:54Z ajsbs joined #lisp 2015-12-16T10:48:17Z justsomeguy quit (Quit: Page closed) 2015-12-16T10:48:24Z surrounder joined #lisp 2015-12-16T10:49:24Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-12-16T10:57:12Z __main__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-16T10:58:24Z __main__ joined #lisp 2015-12-16T11:02:56Z remi`bd joined #lisp 2015-12-16T11:03:52Z sjl joined #lisp 2015-12-16T11:08:33Z ramky joined #lisp 2015-12-16T11:09:09Z reb`` joined #lisp 2015-12-16T11:15:53Z ramky quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T11:17:43Z trig-ger___ is now known as trig-ger 2015-12-16T11:21:02Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-12-16T11:21:19Z grc` joined #lisp 2015-12-16T11:22:46Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-16T11:25:23Z sjl joined #lisp 2015-12-16T11:25:49Z sjl quit (Client Quit) 2015-12-16T11:25:50Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2015-12-16T11:29:17Z kobain joined #lisp 2015-12-16T11:29:18Z zotherstupidguy joined #lisp 2015-12-16T11:31:42Z gaya- joined #lisp 2015-12-16T11:33:57Z EvW joined #lisp 2015-12-16T11:37:57Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp 2015-12-16T11:43:47Z ee_cc quit (Quit: ee_cc) 2015-12-16T11:50:36Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2015-12-16T11:52:00Z qubitnerd joined #lisp 2015-12-16T11:52:24Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T12:08:52Z qubitnerd quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3) 2015-12-16T12:09:33Z kobain quit (Read error: No route to host) 2015-12-16T12:10:15Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2015-12-16T12:15:46Z reb`` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-16T12:17:17Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2015-12-16T12:19:43Z ggole joined #lisp 2015-12-16T12:23:17Z reb`` joined #lisp 2015-12-16T12:24:10Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2015-12-16T12:25:53Z kobain joined #lisp 2015-12-16T12:27:55Z quazimodo quit (Read error: No route to host) 2015-12-16T12:28:05Z mbuf quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T12:29:47Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-12-16T12:29:55Z les` quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-12-16T12:31:56Z smokeink joined #lisp 2015-12-16T12:32:00Z cmack`` joined #lisp 2015-12-16T12:32:59Z ebrasca joined #lisp 2015-12-16T12:33:01Z mikos quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2015-12-16T12:36:21Z mikos joined #lisp 2015-12-16T12:36:36Z cmack`` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-12-16T12:37:11Z les joined #lisp 2015-12-16T12:38:38Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/) 2015-12-16T12:38:53Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2015-12-16T12:40:13Z FreeBird_ joined #lisp 2015-12-16T12:42:46Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-12-16T12:43:09Z FreeBirdLjj quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-12-16T12:43:31Z yrk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-16T12:43:44Z badkins joined #lisp 2015-12-16T12:48:31Z smokeink quit (Quit: leaving) 2015-12-16T12:53:47Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp 2015-12-16T12:54:54Z NeverDie joined #lisp 2015-12-16T12:58:38Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-12-16T13:01:15Z mvilleneuve quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-16T13:02:28Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-12-16T13:03:06Z EvW joined #lisp 2015-12-16T13:04:36Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp 2015-12-16T13:05:30Z anti-freeze joined #lisp 2015-12-16T13:12:19Z yenda joined #lisp 2015-12-16T13:14:12Z pete_r joined #lisp 2015-12-16T13:14:30Z pete_r: Hello, everybody! 2015-12-16T13:15:57Z pete_r quit (Client Quit) 2015-12-16T13:16:10Z prebeja joined #lisp 2015-12-16T13:16:10Z prebeja left #lisp 2015-12-16T13:16:30Z prebeja joined #lisp 2015-12-16T13:16:30Z prebeja quit (Client Quit) 2015-12-16T13:18:55Z Pete_R joined #lisp 2015-12-16T13:19:10Z Pete_R: Is somebody active here? 2015-12-16T13:19:16Z p_l: yes 2015-12-16T13:19:19Z H4ns: course 2015-12-16T13:19:55Z Pete_R: Phew :) 2015-12-16T13:20:16Z Pete_R: I thought I'm on the wrong server :) 2015-12-16T13:20:44Z jackdaniel: it still might be a case. What server are you looking for? ;-) 2015-12-16T13:21:28Z Pete_R: I wasn't sure the name is correct :) I knew it was something with freenode... 2015-12-16T13:22:21Z Pete_R: Anyway, I have somewhat of a problem and I was wondering is any of you guys has installed slime + sbcl under Cygwin? 2015-12-16T13:23:13Z jackdaniel: maybe someone did. Just ask question, people tend to wake up when they see issues which ring the bell ^_^ 2015-12-16T13:24:03Z Pete_R: I have this in my .emacs file 2015-12-16T13:24:03Z Pete_R: (setq inferior-lisp-program "/bin/clisp.exe -K full") 2015-12-16T13:24:03Z Pete_R: (require 'slime) 2015-12-16T13:24:03Z Pete_R: (slime-setup) 2015-12-16T13:24:33Z Pete_R: However, when I try m+x slime it gives me an error 2015-12-16T13:24:58Z jackdaniel: clisp? you should point ot to the sbcl I suppose. type in the terminal `which sbcl` and put the path in .emacs 2015-12-16T13:25:04Z Pete_R: "Process inferior-lisp no longer connected to pipe. Closing it." 2015-12-16T13:25:56Z Pete_R: I have to close emacs for that... BRB. 2015-12-16T13:25:58Z Pete_R quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T13:26:10Z jackdaniel: you may M-S-; and type 2015-12-16T13:26:19Z jackdaniel: (setq inferior-lisp-program "sbcl") 2015-12-16T13:26:28Z dytrivedi joined #lisp 2015-12-16T13:26:40Z jackdaniel: where M is probably left alt, S is shift, and ; is ; 2015-12-16T13:26:50Z Pete_R joined #lisp 2015-12-16T13:26:59Z Pete_R: I'm back :) 2015-12-16T13:27:07Z Pete_R: Can you please give me the command again? 2015-12-16T13:27:37Z jackdaniel: which sbcl 2015-12-16T13:27:39Z dytrivedi quit (Client Quit) 2015-12-16T13:28:18Z Pete_R: Thanks! 2015-12-16T13:28:29Z sz0 joined #lisp 2015-12-16T13:28:46Z jackdaniel: yw. does it work now? 2015-12-16T13:29:07Z Pete_R: The output is: no sbcl... 2015-12-16T13:29:27Z jackdaniel: do you have sbcl build for cygwin on your system? 2015-12-16T13:29:46Z Pete_R: I don't think so... 2015-12-16T13:30:03Z Pete_R: I don't remember having it in the list of packages available for istall. 2015-12-16T13:30:48Z ssake quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-12-16T13:30:52Z jackdaniel: uhm, you have to check if sbcl has prebuilt cygwin binary, if not, you'll have to build it by yourself (if you want to work from cygwin) 2015-12-16T13:31:29Z ssake joined #lisp 2015-12-16T13:31:48Z jackdaniel: it seems taht prebuilt binaries of sbcl are normal windows, not cygwin 2015-12-16T13:32:29Z Pete_R: So I just need to install sbcl on windows and then point to it in my .emacs file? 2015-12-16T13:33:22Z jackdaniel: probably yes. If it won't work with cygwin's emacs I think you'll need the native emacs binary. 2015-12-16T13:35:17Z jackdaniel: here's somewhat not fresh new guide of what you want http://pchristensen.com/blog/articles/installing-sbcl-emacs-and-slime-on-windows-xp/ 2015-12-16T13:35:39Z jackdaniel: you'll probably want slime helper straight from the quicklisp, not the predownloaded one 2015-12-16T13:35:50Z nyef: There at least used to be a way to get cygwin emacs to work with native SBCL and have the pathnames automatically converted between the two. 2015-12-16T13:40:06Z Pete_R: Oh, I remember that article. :) 2015-12-16T13:41:09Z jackdaniel: Pete_R: I believe you'll be much happier with a virtual machine with linux if you have machine somewhere near decent 2015-12-16T13:41:10Z Pete_R: But imho, native Emacs on Windows feels somewhat kludgy... 2015-12-16T13:41:26Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2015-12-16T13:41:37Z Pete_R: jackdaniel: Yes, I think so also. 2015-12-16T13:41:38Z jackdaniel: as you learn/development platform 2015-12-16T13:41:45Z jackdaniel: s/you/your/ 2015-12-16T13:42:14Z flambard quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-12-16T13:43:26Z Pete_R: Is there another IDE you guys would recommend? 2015-12-16T13:43:59Z DeadTrickster: vim 2015-12-16T13:44:08Z jackdaniel: stassats builds one, there was also some sublime plugin 2015-12-16T13:44:30Z DeadTrickster: btw sbcl has decent built-in repl 2015-12-16T13:44:37Z DeadTrickster: among the best 2015-12-16T13:44:59Z jackdaniel: DeadTrickster: what do you mean? 2015-12-16T13:45:23Z DeadTrickster: I like how it' 2015-12-16T13:45:28Z DeadTrickster: s feature rich 2015-12-16T13:45:40Z DeadTrickster: say I want to repeat last evaluation 2015-12-16T13:45:45Z DeadTrickster: I can copy paste 2015-12-16T13:45:48Z DeadTrickster: so cool 2015-12-16T13:46:15Z DeadTrickster: basically it can accept multi-line paste 2015-12-16T13:46:46Z jackdaniel: Isn't this similar on all lisps? 2015-12-16T13:47:06Z Pete_R: DeadTrickster: I'm already (very) confortable with Emacs, learning Vim would be kind of an overhead... 2015-12-16T13:47:35Z jackdaniel: Pete_R: emacs is for sure most supported one by a community, I'd stick to it for that reason 2015-12-16T13:47:41Z DGASAU quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-16T13:48:23Z DGASAU joined #lisp 2015-12-16T13:48:46Z DeadTrickster: well slime is of course good 2015-12-16T13:49:15Z DeadTrickster: until you receive missin-packet, or unable-to-parse-input, or lost-packet 2015-12-16T13:49:24Z DeadTrickster: and basically have to restart it 2015-12-16T13:49:30Z loke quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-12-16T13:49:57Z DeadTrickster: in my case that usually happens when there is a lot of output to be transferred to emacs 2015-12-16T13:50:06Z DeadTrickster: however sometimes it looks just random 2015-12-16T13:50:17Z DeadTrickster: with sly however that just never happens 2015-12-16T13:50:38Z jackdaniel: DeadTrickster: you may use *inferior-lisp* buffer for that (it's a repl) 2015-12-16T13:50:50Z jackdaniel: without the network magic 2015-12-16T13:51:33Z DeadTrickster: jackdaniel, well the problem is this: slime is started when I open lisp file, ok? and by default it redirects all output 2015-12-16T13:52:13Z Pete_R: Guys, I have to go to a meeting. Thank you all for your help! 2015-12-16T13:52:23Z jackdaniel: glhf, bye o/ 2015-12-16T13:52:29Z DeadTrickster: should I really be that careful and remember to run certain command directly in inferior-lop, I don't think so 2015-12-16T13:52:50Z Pete_R quit (Quit: Using Circe, the loveliest of all IRC clients) 2015-12-16T13:53:05Z prebeja joined #lisp 2015-12-16T13:53:05Z DeadTrickster: esp in tight debug loops when my errors could produce tons of output (i.e. broken loop) 2015-12-16T13:53:07Z jackdaniel: DeadTrickster: have you set up, erm, automatic evaluation of each opened file? 2015-12-16T13:53:08Z prebeja quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T13:53:26Z jackdaniel: I'm not sure I understand 2015-12-16T13:53:30Z DeadTrickster: no 2015-12-16T13:53:44Z DeadTrickster: It's like when I open *.lisp repl started 2015-12-16T13:53:47Z DeadTrickster: nothing evaluated 2015-12-16T13:54:09Z DeadTrickster: I thought it is default behavior ) 2015-12-16T13:54:14Z jackdaniel starts slime manually with M-x slime-mode 2015-12-16T13:55:06Z DeadTrickster: well considering degree of possible emacs customizations it is no surprise we use it differently 2015-12-16T13:57:25Z atgreen_ joined #lisp 2015-12-16T13:57:40Z sz0 is now known as sz0` 2015-12-16T13:57:43Z sz0` is now known as sz0 2015-12-16T13:57:51Z warweasle joined #lisp 2015-12-16T14:01:07Z algae joined #lisp 2015-12-16T14:01:09Z trn quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T14:01:50Z loke joined #lisp 2015-12-16T14:02:18Z sjl joined #lisp 2015-12-16T14:02:25Z djh_ joined #lisp 2015-12-16T14:02:49Z flambard joined #lisp 2015-12-16T14:03:33Z duggiefresh joined #lisp 2015-12-16T14:04:44Z ryan_vw_ joined #lisp 2015-12-16T14:04:45Z Oladon joined #lisp 2015-12-16T14:04:57Z djh quit (Quit: leaving) 2015-12-16T14:05:07Z djh_ is now known as djh 2015-12-16T14:06:22Z mbuf joined #lisp 2015-12-16T14:06:52Z zacharias joined #lisp 2015-12-16T14:07:38Z ryan_vw quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-12-16T14:08:11Z skali joined #lisp 2015-12-16T14:11:44Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T14:11:46Z mjs joined #lisp 2015-12-16T14:11:54Z trn joined #lisp 2015-12-16T14:14:20Z ee_cc joined #lisp 2015-12-16T14:14:30Z ee_cc quit (Client Quit) 2015-12-16T14:15:12Z smokeink joined #lisp 2015-12-16T14:16:10Z BitPuffin joined #lisp 2015-12-16T14:18:59Z warweasle quit (Quit: be right back) 2015-12-16T14:19:12Z warweasle joined #lisp 2015-12-16T14:23:26Z grc` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-16T14:23:28Z NeverDie quit (Quit: http://radiux.io/) 2015-12-16T14:32:44Z cmack`` joined #lisp 2015-12-16T14:32:45Z FreeBird_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T14:33:16Z trn quit (Excess Flood) 2015-12-16T14:33:25Z trn joined #lisp 2015-12-16T14:33:26Z reb`` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-16T14:33:46Z duggiefresh quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-16T14:35:20Z AlphaAtom joined #lisp 2015-12-16T14:36:55Z cmack`` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-16T14:37:49Z duggiefresh joined #lisp 2015-12-16T14:41:02Z atgreen_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-12-16T14:41:34Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-12-16T14:41:43Z LiamH joined #lisp 2015-12-16T14:42:37Z ee_cc joined #lisp 2015-12-16T14:42:50Z warweasle: test 2015-12-16T14:43:57Z ee_cc quit (Client Quit) 2015-12-16T14:46:33Z EvW quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T14:46:57Z EvW joined #lisp 2015-12-16T14:48:27Z cmack`` joined #lisp 2015-12-16T14:48:48Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-12-16T14:49:07Z atgreen_ joined #lisp 2015-12-16T14:50:05Z heurist joined #lisp 2015-12-16T14:50:19Z grc` joined #lisp 2015-12-16T14:53:11Z quazimodo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-16T14:53:18Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2015-12-16T14:53:19Z quazimodo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-16T14:54:10Z atgreen_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2015-12-16T14:56:23Z dytrivedi joined #lisp 2015-12-16T14:57:15Z sz0 is now known as sz0` 2015-12-16T14:57:16Z sz0` is now known as sz0 2015-12-16T14:57:45Z sz0 is now known as sz0` 2015-12-16T14:59:18Z anti-freeze joined #lisp 2015-12-16T14:59:49Z mjs left #lisp 2015-12-16T14:59:57Z dytrivedi quit (Client Quit) 2015-12-16T15:03:20Z oleo joined #lisp 2015-12-16T15:03:20Z oleo quit (Changing host) 2015-12-16T15:03:20Z oleo joined #lisp 2015-12-16T15:03:39Z malice joined #lisp 2015-12-16T15:03:45Z malice: Hey! How can I change pathname to string? 2015-12-16T15:04:59Z z0d: ,clhs namestring 2015-12-16T15:05:22Z z0d: specbot: clhs namestring 2015-12-16T15:06:00Z oleo: minion: clhs namestring 2015-12-16T15:06:00Z minion: you speak nonsense 2015-12-16T15:06:03Z oleo: lol 2015-12-16T15:06:05Z oleo: ok ok 2015-12-16T15:06:19Z oleo: the bot union strikes ..... 2015-12-16T15:06:27Z oleo: hahahhahaha 2015-12-16T15:06:28Z malice: Thanks, z0d! 2015-12-16T15:07:22Z dytrivedi joined #lisp 2015-12-16T15:07:34Z Sucks joined #lisp 2015-12-16T15:08:20Z jdz: clhs namesting 2015-12-16T15:08:20Z specbot: Couldn't find anything for namesting. 2015-12-16T15:08:25Z jdz: right 2015-12-16T15:08:29Z jdz: clhs namestring 2015-12-16T15:08:29Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_namest.htm 2015-12-16T15:09:30Z zdm joined #lisp 2015-12-16T15:10:54Z atgreen_ joined #lisp 2015-12-16T15:11:43Z reb`` joined #lisp 2015-12-16T15:15:30Z shikhin is now known as bslsk06 2015-12-16T15:15:54Z bslsk06 is now known as shikhin 2015-12-16T15:16:29Z lisse joined #lisp 2015-12-16T15:16:55Z zdm quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1) 2015-12-16T15:23:54Z flambard quit (Quit: kthxbai) 2015-12-16T15:26:48Z dytrivedi quit (Quit: dytrivedi) 2015-12-16T15:28:01Z zacharias joined #lisp 2015-12-16T15:28:06Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-16T15:30:22Z zacharias_ joined #lisp 2015-12-16T15:31:26Z Whymind quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-16T15:32:33Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-12-16T15:35:49Z sz0` quit (Quit: Bye.) 2015-12-16T15:36:41Z sz0 joined #lisp 2015-12-16T15:37:16Z arademaker joined #lisp 2015-12-16T15:39:50Z zacharias_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-12-16T15:42:38Z sz0 quit (Quit: Bye.) 2015-12-16T15:43:02Z Whymind joined #lisp 2015-12-16T15:43:53Z sz0 joined #lisp 2015-12-16T15:43:54Z skali quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-12-16T15:45:45Z mvilleneuve_ joined #lisp 2015-12-16T15:47:18Z wallyduchamp joined #lisp 2015-12-16T15:48:25Z mvilleneuve quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2015-12-16T15:48:44Z aftershave joined #lisp 2015-12-16T15:49:43Z ajsbs quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T15:50:36Z dytrivedi joined #lisp 2015-12-16T15:54:12Z wallyduchamp quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T16:02:32Z DGASAU quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-16T16:03:06Z DGASAU joined #lisp 2015-12-16T16:07:08Z arademaker quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-12-16T16:07:10Z OrangeShark joined #lisp 2015-12-16T16:08:10Z dytrivedi quit (Quit: dytrivedi) 2015-12-16T16:08:54Z mordocai joined #lisp 2015-12-16T16:09:58Z remi`bd quit (Quit: leaving) 2015-12-16T16:10:30Z Denommus joined #lisp 2015-12-16T16:10:49Z zacharias_ joined #lisp 2015-12-16T16:10:58Z voidlily_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T16:11:44Z yenda quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-12-16T16:12:24Z wallyduchamp joined #lisp 2015-12-16T16:13:31Z dytrivedi joined #lisp 2015-12-16T16:13:44Z yrk joined #lisp 2015-12-16T16:14:15Z yrk quit (Changing host) 2015-12-16T16:14:15Z yrk joined #lisp 2015-12-16T16:14:34Z voidlily joined #lisp 2015-12-16T16:14:40Z reb`` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2015-12-16T16:15:27Z gingerale joined #lisp 2015-12-16T16:16:07Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T16:16:29Z duggiefresh quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-16T16:16:29Z duggiefr_ joined #lisp 2015-12-16T16:17:18Z vaporatorius joined #lisp 2015-12-16T16:22:14Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2015-12-16T16:24:33Z Warlock[29A] joined #lisp 2015-12-16T16:24:49Z Denommus quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-16T16:29:22Z hajovonta: is there a way to get the name of the function from the function object, e.g. (name #'func1) or something? 2015-12-16T16:30:06Z _death: clhs function-lambda-expression 2015-12-16T16:30:06Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_fn_lam.htm 2015-12-16T16:30:42Z hajovonta: thanks very much! 2015-12-16T16:30:48Z DGASAU quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-12-16T16:31:38Z luis joined #lisp 2015-12-16T16:32:42Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-12-16T16:35:42Z DGASAU joined #lisp 2015-12-16T16:39:58Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-12-16T16:42:17Z luis quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net) 2015-12-16T16:42:44Z futpib joined #lisp 2015-12-16T16:45:33Z DGASAU quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-16T16:52:03Z cadadar joined #lisp 2015-12-16T16:52:06Z bege joined #lisp 2015-12-16T16:52:43Z luis joined #lisp 2015-12-16T16:54:50Z atgreen_: does asdf provide a way to build and compile all of the lisp packages and then exit without running the app? 2015-12-16T16:55:59Z p_l: atgreen_: ASDF itself not sure, but there were scripts which automated that for you 2015-12-16T16:56:05Z DGASAU joined #lisp 2015-12-16T16:56:21Z atgreen_: p_l, ok great. where can I find those? 2015-12-16T16:56:35Z p_l: minion: buildapp? 2015-12-16T16:56:35Z minion: buildapp: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/buildapp 2015-12-16T16:56:38Z p_l: ehhh 2015-12-16T16:57:10Z p_l: http://www.xach.com/lisp/buildapp/ http://www.cliki.net/cl-launch 2015-12-16T16:57:22Z atgreen_: yes, found it. thanks! 2015-12-16T16:58:00Z grc` quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-12-16T17:03:04Z copec quit (Quit: checkity check out.) 2015-12-16T17:03:36Z luis quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net) 2015-12-16T17:03:44Z nisstyre quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3) 2015-12-16T17:03:50Z copec joined #lisp 2015-12-16T17:06:28Z duggiefr_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T17:06:36Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-12-16T17:08:16Z luis joined #lisp 2015-12-16T17:08:46Z DGASAU quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-16T17:10:33Z s00pcan joined #lisp 2015-12-16T17:12:59Z zotherstupidguy quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.3) 2015-12-16T17:13:00Z mvilleneuve_ quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2015-12-16T17:13:32Z varjagg joined #lisp 2015-12-16T17:14:24Z zacharias_ is now known as zacharias 2015-12-16T17:14:45Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2015-12-16T17:15:27Z aftershave quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2015-12-16T17:17:38Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2015-12-16T17:18:33Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2015-12-16T17:20:44Z DGASAU joined #lisp 2015-12-16T17:21:43Z luis quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net) 2015-12-16T17:22:28Z CrazyEddy quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T17:23:46Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-16T17:23:49Z dwrngr joined #lisp 2015-12-16T17:24:42Z dytrivedi quit (Quit: dytrivedi) 2015-12-16T17:26:36Z TMM quit (Quit: Ex-Chat) 2015-12-16T17:27:55Z lisse joined #lisp 2015-12-16T17:27:57Z duggiefresh joined #lisp 2015-12-16T17:28:09Z beach joined #lisp 2015-12-16T17:28:17Z beach: Good evening everyone! 2015-12-16T17:29:13Z CrazyEddy joined #lisp 2015-12-16T17:29:38Z luis joined #lisp 2015-12-16T17:29:52Z nyef: Hello beach. 2015-12-16T17:30:44Z stepnem joined #lisp 2015-12-16T17:31:56Z beach: Cluffer is taking a bit longer than I expected. I don't know why I didn't expect it; after all, that's what Hofstadter's law says. Anyway, this is the state of the documentation at this point: http://metamodular.com/cluffer.pdf 2015-12-16T17:36:39Z pjb: hajovonta: also see: http://paste.lisp.org/display/132174#1 (Notice the S in function-names). 2015-12-16T17:38:13Z Lord_of_Life quit (Excess Flood) 2015-12-16T17:39:31Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T17:39:36Z Lord_of_- joined #lisp 2015-12-16T17:40:30Z attila_lendvai: beach: did I mention you projectured already? http://projectured.org/ some nice cl code to display and edit "stuff" (not only text). this is the latest video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s05SlmZ7ZPc 2015-12-16T17:41:01Z attila_lendvai: it's lazy and incremental using functional reactive programming 2015-12-16T17:42:08Z beach: I don't think you mentioned it before. Thanks! 2015-12-16T17:42:09Z pjb: beach: from a quick read doesn't I don't see anything wrong with cluffer. If I had more time, I'd modify a pair of editors I have to use it to see if it's sufficient, but I guess you'll finalize it before I can do that :-( 2015-12-16T17:43:03Z beach: pjb: Thanks. Yes, it is possible that I will finish it pretty soon, even though, as I said, it is taking a bit longer. 2015-12-16T17:45:13Z beach: attila_lendvai: I need to set aside watching it for now. Dinner is imminent it seems. 2015-12-16T17:45:24Z beach: But I will definitely watch it. 2015-12-16T17:45:47Z attila_lendvai: beach: just click through it when you get the time, and the codebase is surprisingly small 2015-12-16T17:45:59Z beach: OK. 2015-12-16T17:50:25Z malbertife joined #lisp 2015-12-16T17:56:51Z badkins joined #lisp 2015-12-16T17:57:54Z mbuf quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.5.2) 2015-12-16T17:58:31Z mbuf joined #lisp 2015-12-16T17:58:32Z badkins quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T17:58:47Z badkins joined #lisp 2015-12-16T18:02:45Z zupoman joined #lisp 2015-12-16T18:02:46Z zupoman quit (Changing host) 2015-12-16T18:02:46Z zupoman joined #lisp 2015-12-16T18:04:26Z reggy joined #lisp 2015-12-16T18:04:35Z mordocai quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T18:04:49Z mbuf quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T18:07:26Z mbuf joined #lisp 2015-12-16T18:07:29Z mordocai joined #lisp 2015-12-16T18:08:16Z hajovonta quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-12-16T18:09:35Z cmack`` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2015-12-16T18:09:42Z Sucks quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-16T18:09:53Z smokeink quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T18:13:47Z atgreen_: quicklisp question... I have quicklisp loaded, and I have foo.asd for my app. I put the directory holding foo.asd in asdf:*central-registry* , but then when I do (ql:quickload "foo") it says System "foo" not found. 2015-12-16T18:14:05Z mbuf quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.5.2) 2015-12-16T18:15:15Z atgreen_: My reading of https://www.quicklisp.org/beta/faq.html was that this would have worked. 2015-12-16T18:15:24Z atgreen_: Xach_, ? 2015-12-16T18:16:08Z mordocai: atgreen_: Doesn't directly answer your question, but I generally just put and/or symlink my stuff into ~/quicklisp/local-projects and that works for me. 2015-12-16T18:16:23Z atgreen_: let me try 2015-12-16T18:17:36Z atgreen_: mordocai, didn't work 2015-12-16T18:17:38Z mbuf joined #lisp 2015-12-16T18:18:03Z mordocai: atgreen_: Hmm, not sure then. I'm pretty new too so I just know what works for me. 2015-12-16T18:19:41Z shka joined #lisp 2015-12-16T18:20:06Z TMM joined #lisp 2015-12-16T18:21:31Z Bike: i think you have to call (asdf:initialize-source-registry) after the push. 2015-12-16T18:23:28Z atgreen_: trying 2015-12-16T18:24:33Z mbuf quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.5.2) 2015-12-16T18:25:47Z mbuf joined #lisp 2015-12-16T18:25:59Z attila_lendvai: symlinking the project dir into local-projects should work 2015-12-16T18:26:06Z NeverDie joined #lisp 2015-12-16T18:28:05Z mbuf quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T18:28:30Z mbuf joined #lisp 2015-12-16T18:29:49Z anti-freeze quit 2015-12-16T18:30:04Z dwrngr quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T18:30:09Z drmeister: A question on Common Lisp programming and packages and symbols. 2015-12-16T18:30:12Z ep joined #lisp 2015-12-16T18:30:29Z drmeister: Let's say you write a program all in one package and then you decide to split it into two packages. 2015-12-16T18:30:58Z drmeister: So originally it's package :A and later you decide to create and split out functionality into package :B 2015-12-16T18:31:09Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-12-16T18:31:15Z drmeister: You end up converting a lot of calls (foo ...) to (b:foo) 2015-12-16T18:31:16Z atgreen_: Bike, doesn't work 2015-12-16T18:31:30Z Bike: well, then i don't know, sorry. 2015-12-16T18:31:33Z drmeister: Is there any way to lessen the pain? 2015-12-16T18:32:47Z wildlander joined #lisp 2015-12-16T18:33:11Z lisse joined #lisp 2015-12-16T18:33:54Z mordocai: drmeister: You can include package b into package a 2015-12-16T18:34:27Z josemanuel joined #lisp 2015-12-16T18:34:28Z Bike: drmeister: you can use the package 2015-12-16T18:34:40Z mordocai: Bike: drmeister: yeah, use is the correct term. 2015-12-16T18:36:19Z drmeister: mordocai: Yes, but I find that if I load the two files, one containing the functions defined in package :A and the other containing the functions defined for package :B that are used by package :A that until I've figured out every symbol from :B to export that I have to keep reloading my CL environment because symbols get created in :A that should be 2015-12-16T18:36:19Z drmeister: included from :B 2015-12-16T18:36:40Z anti-freeze joined #lisp 2015-12-16T18:37:15Z drmeister: I suppose I could unintern unwanted symbols created in :A one by one as I figure out what symbols need to be exported from :B. Do people do that? 2015-12-16T18:37:37Z anti-freeze quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T18:38:15Z beach left #lisp 2015-12-16T18:38:22Z attila_lendvai: drmeister: in my unit tests I use an IMPORT-ALL-OWNED-SYMBOLS, but that requires package A to be loaded beforehand, and it's kinda kludgy... stuff for test systems only... 2015-12-16T18:38:23Z ggole quit 2015-12-16T18:39:17Z attila_lendvai: drmeister: with slime uninterning should be relatively painless, just inspect the symbol and there's a button 2015-12-16T18:39:26Z clique joined #lisp 2015-12-16T18:40:55Z drmeister: attila_lendvai: That's good to know, thank you. 2015-12-16T18:41:00Z kushal quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-12-16T18:42:03Z attila_lendvai: drmeister: in case... http://hub.darcs.net/hu.dwim/hu.dwim.common/browse/source/common.lisp#51 2015-12-16T18:42:04Z drmeister: You mean C-c I ? slime-inspect-value? 2015-12-16T18:43:30Z atgreen_: Bike, my bad. Got it working. Thanks! 2015-12-16T18:43:30Z attila_lendvai: err, I have a dwim patch for slime inspector that got rejected. I may be wrong about how vanilla slime works... for me it's slime-inspect bound to C-I 2015-12-16T18:43:38Z drmeister: I don't see a button to unintern the symbol. But I'm in Clasp - it may not be working. 2015-12-16T18:44:18Z drmeister: There's no slime-unintern 2015-12-16T18:44:22Z drmeister: Sadly 2015-12-16T18:45:17Z psy_ joined #lisp 2015-12-16T18:45:49Z sweater joined #lisp 2015-12-16T18:46:14Z sweater is now known as Guest53668 2015-12-16T18:46:56Z wallyduchamp quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-12-16T18:50:36Z mtd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T18:52:23Z grc` joined #lisp 2015-12-16T18:54:16Z mtd joined #lisp 2015-12-16T18:54:20Z copec quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T18:55:41Z mbuf quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.5.2) 2015-12-16T18:56:14Z mbuf joined #lisp 2015-12-16T19:00:28Z copec joined #lisp 2015-12-16T19:01:16Z mbuf quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T19:08:03Z dytrivedi joined #lisp 2015-12-16T19:10:04Z dytrivedi quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-16T19:13:45Z mtd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T19:13:56Z Whitesquall joined #lisp 2015-12-16T19:14:07Z fantazo joined #lisp 2015-12-16T19:15:07Z k-stz joined #lisp 2015-12-16T19:18:44Z Nikotiini quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-12-16T19:22:37Z CrazyEddy quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T19:26:53Z zdm joined #lisp 2015-12-16T19:29:33Z CrazyEddy joined #lisp 2015-12-16T19:30:50Z mtd joined #lisp 2015-12-16T19:32:11Z EvW joined #lisp 2015-12-16T19:33:17Z nzambe quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client) 2015-12-16T19:33:53Z nzambe joined #lisp 2015-12-16T19:34:06Z grc` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-16T19:39:29Z sjl joined #lisp 2015-12-16T19:45:01Z vlatkoB_ joined #lisp 2015-12-16T19:47:15Z vlatkoB quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-16T19:48:29Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-12-16T19:49:15Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2015-12-16T19:49:55Z vaitel joined #lisp 2015-12-16T19:51:26Z shookees quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-16T19:52:57Z eni joined #lisp 2015-12-16T19:55:38Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp 2015-12-16T19:57:07Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-12-16T20:00:11Z CrazyEddy quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T20:02:41Z CrazyEddy joined #lisp 2015-12-16T20:04:04Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-12-16T20:05:47Z cmack`` joined #lisp 2015-12-16T20:05:58Z IPmonger_ joined #lisp 2015-12-16T20:06:25Z JuanDaugherty quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T20:08:27Z atgreen_: can asdf ql:quickload packages from quicklisp, or do I have to quickload them myself first? 2015-12-16T20:08:46Z Xach_: atgreen_: ql:quickload combines loading with fetching missing things 2015-12-16T20:08:52Z Xach_: atgreen_: asdf only loads 2015-12-16T20:09:29Z clique left #lisp 2015-12-16T20:09:38Z ASau joined #lisp 2015-12-16T20:09:43Z zdm quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-16T20:09:55Z atgreen_: Xach_, I have a foo.asd package, and a system with quicklisp installed. I want a 'build' step where quicklisp pulls down all of the depenencies for me. 2015-12-16T20:10:03Z atgreen_: .. to burn it into a docker container. 2015-12-16T20:10:13Z atgreen_: how should I approach this? 2015-12-16T20:10:15Z cmack`` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-16T20:10:21Z Xach_: atgreen_: I use (ql:quickload "foo") for that. 2015-12-16T20:10:35Z Xach_: atgreen_: it is the most reliable way i know to get everything needed to build foo. 2015-12-16T20:10:38Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-12-16T20:10:39Z Xach_: recursively. 2015-12-16T20:11:06Z atgreen_: ok. I thought there might be some integration with asdf, or a tool to read .asd files to quickload the bits. 2015-12-16T20:11:10Z Guest53668 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-12-16T20:11:31Z Xach_: atgreen_: sometimes that can work out 2015-12-16T20:11:40Z Xach_: atgreen_: in my experience, though, sometimes things are too implicit 2015-12-16T20:11:59Z Warlock[29A] quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-16T20:12:15Z Xach_: atgreen_: for example, some system files have something like (asdf:load-system "some-other-thing") just added willy nilly 2015-12-16T20:12:35Z Xach_: it's hard to spot that in advance, because just loading the system file triggers loading the other thing 2015-12-16T20:12:39Z atgreen_: See https://github.com/atgreen/sample-lisp-app/blob/master/webapp.asd 2015-12-16T20:13:04Z atgreen_: I guess I need to quickload hunchentoot before this? 2015-12-16T20:13:39Z Xach_: atgreen_: you could try quicklisp's "bundle" thing 2015-12-16T20:13:57Z Xach_: that would copy hunchentoot and all its dependencies to a single place that can be loaded afterwards without quicklisp 2015-12-16T20:14:43Z atgreen_: oh.. if I put this in local-projects can I just quickload my webapp and it will pull in hunchentoot? 2015-12-16T20:14:46Z Xach_: you could also try using the bundle infrastructure to just fetch the stuff in the dependency tree 2015-12-16T20:15:12Z Xach_: atgreen_: it produces a file called bundle.lisp that, after loading, makes hunchentoot (and its requirements) visible to asdf. 2015-12-16T20:15:36Z Xach_: no quicklisp involved at that point 2015-12-16T20:15:52Z Xach_: but if you want to keep quicklisp in the loop, quickloading your system is probably the easiest thing to do. 2015-12-16T20:16:27Z atgreen_: yes, it works. great. 2015-12-16T20:16:32Z atgreen_: I still want quicklisp involved. 2015-12-16T20:16:38Z IPmonger_ quit (Quit: Page closed) 2015-12-16T20:16:44Z Xach_: Ok 2015-12-16T20:16:45Z oleo_ joined #lisp 2015-12-16T20:16:52Z oleo_ quit (Changing host) 2015-12-16T20:16:52Z oleo_ joined #lisp 2015-12-16T20:17:06Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-12-16T20:17:14Z atgreen_: it's for openshift's source-to-image PaaS tool. source code in, docker image out. so it needs to be a generic lisp app 'builder'. 2015-12-16T20:17:57Z atgreen_: I'm just dropping the app in local-projects now and quickloading to build the docker image. Then 'running' will have everything pre-loaded and compiled. 2015-12-16T20:18:44Z synchromesh quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-12-16T20:19:16Z bb010g joined #lisp 2015-12-16T20:19:44Z yrdz``` joined #lisp 2015-12-16T20:19:50Z sz0 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2015-12-16T20:20:30Z yrdz`` quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-12-16T20:21:25Z zdm joined #lisp 2015-12-16T20:22:12Z vlatkoB_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T20:23:35Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-12-16T20:25:03Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2015-12-16T20:29:35Z lisse joined #lisp 2015-12-16T20:33:05Z Whitesquall quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2015-12-16T20:35:12Z sjl joined #lisp 2015-12-16T20:36:38Z prxq joined #lisp 2015-12-16T20:43:27Z wildlander quit (Quit: Saliendo) 2015-12-16T20:50:42Z psy_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-12-16T20:51:48Z sjl quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-12-16T20:55:38Z Denommus joined #lisp 2015-12-16T20:55:59Z switchp0rt: I am trying to create a very simple macro but one of the fields is not evaluating like I expect. the data variable is supposed to be a list of strings. But when I pass it something like ("str1" (some-func-returns-string)) the "some-func-returns-string is parsed as a symbol and not actually evaluated. http://pastebin.com/yThaCLxc 2015-12-16T20:56:45Z switchp0rt: I am new to lisp (maybe obviously) 2015-12-16T20:57:30Z dlowe: switchp0rt: macros take their arguments unevaluated, and return code to be evaluated in its place. 2015-12-16T20:57:55Z dlowe: switchp0rt: if you want its arguments to be evaluated, you should consider using a regular function 2015-12-16T20:58:31Z DifferentLambda joined #lisp 2015-12-16T21:00:15Z pchrist quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T21:05:21Z lisse quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-12-16T21:06:29Z psy_ joined #lisp 2015-12-16T21:07:55Z eudoxia joined #lisp 2015-12-16T21:08:03Z lisse joined #lisp 2015-12-16T21:08:49Z DeadTrickster_ joined #lisp 2015-12-16T21:08:57Z ACE_Recliner joined #lisp 2015-12-16T21:08:58Z switchp0rt: dlowe: is there a way to pass a function or body that is executed with the "res" variable implicitly scoped for the function/body? 2015-12-16T21:09:33Z switchp0rt: dlowe: basically, the macro I posted was an attempt to not have to check if a value is set as I am having to write many functions like this 2015-12-16T21:10:10Z switchp0rt: dlowe: I wanted the res variable to be implicitly available to the body in the case I posted. 2015-12-16T21:10:21Z dlowe: switchp0rt: emit code that wraps the body in a LET 2015-12-16T21:10:42Z switchp0rt: isn't that what I did? 2015-12-16T21:11:29Z DeadTrickster_: what I'm missing here: (defstruct qwe 2015-12-16T21:11:29Z DeadTrickster_: (qwe nil :type (or nil string))) 2015-12-16T21:11:42Z attila_lendvai: cffi doesn't have any support beyond :point for function pointer types, right? 2015-12-16T21:12:06Z dlowe: switchp0rt: http://pastebin.com/VQTykQd2 2015-12-16T21:12:53Z DeadTrickster_: make-qwe throws: The value NIL is not of type STRING. Should I deftype first? 2015-12-16T21:12:57Z switchp0rt: dlowe: won't that still suffer from the same problem with the data variable not evaluating functions inside? 2015-12-16T21:12:59Z dlowe: switchp0rt: you should use macroexpand-1 to check that your macro is generating the proper code for what you want to do 2015-12-16T21:13:02Z |3b| joined #lisp 2015-12-16T21:13:41Z dlowe: switchp0rt: oh. duh. use the thing I did with cred-sym with data 2015-12-16T21:13:51Z switchp0rt: dlowe: ah, i see 2015-12-16T21:13:58Z switchp0rt: dlowe: giving it a shot, thank you 2015-12-16T21:14:28Z dlowe: switchp0rt: the idea is to generate a let statement with (let ((my-thing (some-func-returns-string))) ...) and then my-thing become the result of the function call 2015-12-16T21:17:34Z DeadTrickster_: hmm looks like I should use null instead of nil 2015-12-16T21:17:36Z DeadTrickster_: cool 2015-12-16T21:18:24Z algae quit (Quit: leaving) 2015-12-16T21:19:20Z lisse quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-12-16T21:19:30Z malbertife quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-12-16T21:19:53Z przl joined #lisp 2015-12-16T21:20:04Z freehck quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-12-16T21:20:32Z lisse joined #lisp 2015-12-16T21:22:08Z switchp0rt: dlowe: so, I still don't think that is working. that data variable is a list of strings. The first element is a string, the second element is a function that returns a string. When I use gensym it looks like it errors out because it cannot execute the first element of the list 2015-12-16T21:22:28Z switchp0rt: dlowe: Evaluation aborted on #