2015-06-14T00:03:10Z oleo: greaaaaaaat! 2015-06-14T00:03:13Z oleo: i solved it! 2015-06-14T00:03:14Z oleo: haha 2015-06-14T00:03:15Z oleo: :) 2015-06-14T00:04:17Z clop2 joined #lisp 2015-06-14T00:05:33Z robot-beethoven joined #lisp 2015-06-14T00:10:14Z stevegt quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-06-14T00:15:23Z aggrolite quit (Quit: aggrolite) 2015-06-14T00:17:17Z defaultxr quit (Quit: storm) 2015-06-14T00:21:37Z stevegt joined #lisp 2015-06-14T00:24:51Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT) 2015-06-14T00:25:20Z drmeister: I think I just inlined my first function. 2015-06-14T00:25:36Z drmeister: I say "think" because when I try to use the compiler it goes into an infinite loop. 2015-06-14T00:26:06Z oleo: welp, i got maxima to run in an mcclim window..... 2015-06-14T00:26:11Z drmeister: But when I generate AST's and look at them - they make sense. The AST for the function that I want to inline is being inlined into the AST that I want to inline into. 2015-06-14T00:26:12Z oleo: hahha 2015-06-14T00:27:03Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-06-14T00:27:09Z drmeister: Is anyone on who would have a moment to look at some AST graphs and ponder what is going on with me? 2015-06-14T00:28:49Z drmeister: What the heck. 2015-06-14T00:29:00Z drmeister: Here's the expression that I'm inlining into: (lambda (x) (declare (core:lambda-name inline-into-me)) (if (my-consp x) t nil)) 2015-06-14T00:29:29Z drmeister: I have defined the function MY-CONSP to be inline. 2015-06-14T00:29:47Z drmeister: I change MY-CONSP to CONSP and here is what a regular function invocation looks like as an AST 2015-06-14T00:30:27Z drmeister: http://i.imgur.com/4kXavQp.png 2015-06-14T00:30:37Z Baggers quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-06-14T00:30:59Z drmeister: Notice the call and fdefinition - it's looking up the fdefinition of CONSP and then calling it. This is slow. 2015-06-14T00:32:25Z drmeister: Here's the declaim and defun of my-consp: (declaim (inline my-consp)) (defun my-consp (x) (if (cleavir-primop:consp x) t nil)) 2015-06-14T00:32:53Z drmeister: Notice the CLEAVIR-PRIMOP:CONSP - this is a special operator that generates code for CONSP rather than calling a function to do it. 2015-06-14T00:33:06Z drmeister: Here's what its AST looks like 2015-06-14T00:33:18Z drmeister: http://i.imgur.com/PM16BIr.png 2015-06-14T00:33:58Z drmeister: Note the bottom left, that's the consp special operator. 2015-06-14T00:34:12Z drmeister: The CLEAVIR-PRIMOP:CONSP special operator. 2015-06-14T00:34:46Z drmeister: I just realized I haven't mentioned beach's name. I've emailed him a description of this but I just realized that what I'm saying here might be useful for him as well so here goes. 2015-06-14T00:34:59Z drmeister: beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach beach 2015-06-14T00:35:11Z drmeister: That should get his attention when he checks the logs. 2015-06-14T00:35:28Z drmeister: Ok, here's what I get when I do the actual inlining 2015-06-14T00:36:01Z drmeister: http://i.imgur.com/hyy52zq.png 2015-06-14T00:37:34Z drmeister: I see what is going on. The incoming argument (x) is being setq'd into (X) and that is being setq'd into a different (x) and that is being setq'd into yet another (X) (top to bottom) 2015-06-14T00:38:05Z Bike: this is difficult to read. 2015-06-14T00:38:27Z drmeister: There is a lot of superfluous nodes in this AST but it should do what I want. Most of the nodes won't turn into code. 2015-06-14T00:38:59Z drmeister: What is difficult to read? The AST? Yes, but that's computers for you. 2015-06-14T00:39:30Z nyef joined #lisp 2015-06-14T00:40:13Z Bike: the ast, yeah. your explanation is fine. 2015-06-14T00:40:16Z drmeister: I don't think beach does any optimizations on the AST, they are all done on the HIR. The AST can be sloppy. 2015-06-14T00:40:34Z Bike: it's a syntax tree, i wouldn't really expect optimizations. 2015-06-14T00:40:40Z drmeister: Right. 2015-06-14T00:40:50Z drmeister: I think the inlining is working at the AST level. 2015-06-14T00:42:01Z nyef: Can you make the decision to inline at the HIR level, and do a "late" conversion from AST to HIR to splice in place of the call being inlined? 2015-06-14T00:42:11Z |3b|: so what are we pondering about the ast? 2015-06-14T00:43:05Z Adlai joined #lisp 2015-06-14T00:43:52Z pacon joined #lisp 2015-06-14T00:44:44Z |3b| 's random guess are sharing some data you didn't intend to between parts of the tree, or destructively modifying something shared 2015-06-14T00:45:12Z drmeister: Here's what the HIR looks like: http://i.imgur.com/Qp2ubLa.png 2015-06-14T00:45:26Z |3b|: (or the obvious, a cycle in the AST somewhere) 2015-06-14T00:45:40Z drmeister: nyef: This is beach's code. He decided to inline at the AST level. 2015-06-14T00:45:49Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2015-06-14T00:46:11Z nyef: Fair enough, I guess. 2015-06-14T00:46:31Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-06-14T00:46:35Z drmeister: I generate and save a copy of the AST for any functions I want to inline and then when Cleavir asks me for info on the function I tell it that I have an AST and that it should inline it. 2015-06-14T00:46:45Z lispyone joined #lisp 2015-06-14T00:46:48Z drmeister: Then, rather than generating a call to the function it copies the AST and splices it in. 2015-06-14T00:47:26Z drmeister: It seems like a great way to do it. It is inlining at the earliest stage. 2015-06-14T00:49:17Z drmeister: The HIR looks good, there are all those useless assignments at the top of the graph but they will be optimized away in the very next stage after this HIR was generated. 2015-06-14T00:49:29Z drmeister: beach just wrote an optimization pass to do this. 2015-06-14T00:51:22Z drmeister: Here the MIR that I get after I apply the HIR transformations: http://i.imgur.com/BZLPeNd.png 2015-06-14T00:52:08Z drmeister: That takes out two of the useless assignments. LLVM should do some of that as well. 2015-06-14T00:52:19Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-06-14T00:53:05Z drmeister: I think this is all working. 2015-06-14T00:53:18Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-06-14T00:54:51Z `dwr joined #lisp 2015-06-14T00:56:38Z mea-culpa joined #lisp 2015-06-14T00:57:03Z victoroak joined #lisp 2015-06-14T00:57:15Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T00:57:24Z elimik31 joined #lisp 2015-06-14T01:05:58Z zacharias_ joined #lisp 2015-06-14T01:07:37Z clop2 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-06-14T01:08:58Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-06-14T01:13:26Z drmeister: Hmm, it's not going into an infinite loop. I turned off all the debugging messages which were slowing down everything. 2015-06-14T01:13:35Z drmeister: It returns and the new function works like CONSP. 2015-06-14T01:13:40Z drmeister: I think I inlined my first function. 2015-06-14T01:13:52Z nyef: Congratulations! 2015-06-14T01:14:24Z drmeister: Nope - I know I inlined my first function. 2015-06-14T01:14:27Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/tYAdSGLj/ 2015-06-14T01:14:46Z drmeister: See lines 22-25 2015-06-14T01:15:02Z drmeister: Those are the LLVM-IR instructions for CONSP 2015-06-14T01:15:06Z drmeister: MY-CONSP 2015-06-14T01:15:14Z victoroak changed the topic of #lisp to: #lisp 2015-06-14T01:15:44Z aap_ joined #lisp 2015-06-14T01:15:49Z victoroak changed the topic of #lisp to: #lisp 2015-06-14T01:15:53Z victoroak quit (Quit: Page closed) 2015-06-14T01:15:58Z Bike: yo, cut that shit out. 2015-06-14T01:16:18Z elimik31 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-06-14T01:16:18Z wilfredh quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2015-06-14T01:16:32Z elimik31 joined #lisp 2015-06-14T01:17:02Z nyef changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language logs:|contact op if muted| Hunchentoot 1.2.32, cl-launch 4.1.3, Drakma 1.3.14, SBCL 1.2.10 2015-06-14T01:17:09Z victoroak joined #lisp 2015-06-14T01:17:12Z nyef: Could someone please set mode +t? 2015-06-14T01:17:31Z klltkr joined #lisp 2015-06-14T01:18:03Z nyef: fe[nl]ix, p_l: One of the two of you, maybe? Just a little +t for the channel for the next couple of days? 2015-06-14T01:18:44Z lispyone quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T01:18:59Z aap quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-06-14T01:24:08Z defaultxr joined #lisp 2015-06-14T01:35:34Z walter|r quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T01:38:17Z walter|r joined #lisp 2015-06-14T01:38:30Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2015-06-14T01:39:14Z klltkr quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-06-14T01:40:35Z smokeink joined #lisp 2015-06-14T01:42:11Z elimik31 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-06-14T01:42:29Z _leb joined #lisp 2015-06-14T01:48:28Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/o86hshbe/ 2015-06-14T01:48:51Z drmeister: That is the disassembled code for: (defun foo-consp (x) (clasp-cleavir::my-consp x)) 2015-06-14T01:49:36Z drmeister: Line 8 & 10 are doing the AND/CMP 2015-06-14T01:57:20Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T02:03:27Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T02:06:38Z A205B064 joined #lisp 2015-06-14T02:20:09Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2015-06-14T02:20:50Z f3lp joined #lisp 2015-06-14T02:23:40Z oleo: http://paste.lisp.org/display/149847 2015-06-14T02:24:18Z Bike: please say words instead of just links 2015-06-14T02:24:40Z oleo: Bike: maxima in mcclim! 2015-06-14T02:24:52Z Bike: like... do you want help... what 2015-06-14T02:25:04Z oleo: Bike: got it and have to finzalize it soon, there are some corners to be ..... 2015-06-14T02:25:47Z oleo: by no means really clean yet.... 2015-06-14T02:26:34Z oleo: gonna show some screenshots tomorrow or so.... 2015-06-14T02:28:20Z oleo: dunno why but enabling the showtime pane, stuff no more gets displayed..... tho the prompt lines are there.... 2015-06-14T02:28:57Z tmtwd joined #lisp 2015-06-14T02:29:48Z victoroak quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-06-14T02:30:16Z khisanth_ joined #lisp 2015-06-14T02:30:36Z Khisanth quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-06-14T02:31:38Z oleo: and i don't have history completion.... 2015-06-14T02:31:58Z oleo: btw just history 2015-06-14T02:33:49Z mea-culp` joined #lisp 2015-06-14T02:35:29Z ehaliewicz joined #lisp 2015-06-14T02:35:41Z gendl left #lisp 2015-06-14T02:35:52Z mea-culpa quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-06-14T02:38:43Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2015-06-14T02:39:32Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-06-14T02:44:09Z nowhere_man quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T02:45:47Z nowhere_man joined #lisp 2015-06-14T02:46:43Z k-dawg joined #lisp 2015-06-14T02:52:00Z mea-culp` is now known as mea-culpa 2015-06-14T02:59:41Z ndrei joined #lisp 2015-06-14T03:04:31Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-06-14T03:05:31Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-06-14T03:08:32Z scymtym joined #lisp 2015-06-14T03:11:41Z victoroak joined #lisp 2015-06-14T03:19:09Z wooden quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-06-14T03:25:29Z gendl joined #lisp 2015-06-14T03:26:05Z _leb quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2015-06-14T03:26:59Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-06-14T03:27:04Z psy_ joined #lisp 2015-06-14T03:27:22Z Jesin joined #lisp 2015-06-14T03:28:21Z psy_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T03:31:45Z psy_ joined #lisp 2015-06-14T03:45:05Z gendl quit (Quit: gendl) 2015-06-14T03:48:55Z aggrolite joined #lisp 2015-06-14T03:54:09Z CEnnis91 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2015-06-14T03:55:35Z wat joined #lisp 2015-06-14T03:56:42Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight) 2015-06-14T04:00:59Z aggrolite quit (Quit: aggrolite) 2015-06-14T04:05:12Z CrLF0710 joined #lisp 2015-06-14T04:05:23Z pranavrc joined #lisp 2015-06-14T04:05:50Z instant_eazar001 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2015-06-14T04:10:39Z aggrolite joined #lisp 2015-06-14T04:12:32Z sheilong quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1) 2015-06-14T04:13:18Z aggrolite quit (Client Quit) 2015-06-14T04:16:48Z pyon joined #lisp 2015-06-14T04:19:42Z sdothum quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-06-14T04:23:00Z CrLF0710` joined #lisp 2015-06-14T04:25:44Z CrLF0710 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-06-14T04:29:00Z wat left #lisp 2015-06-14T04:30:39Z lispyone joined #lisp 2015-06-14T04:30:53Z cluck quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T04:32:15Z beach joined #lisp 2015-06-14T04:32:27Z beach: Good morning everyone! 2015-06-14T04:32:46Z Beetny joined #lisp 2015-06-14T04:33:17Z harish joined #lisp 2015-06-14T04:34:36Z nyef: Hello beach. 2015-06-14T04:39:40Z beach: How is NQ-CLIM going? What did you decide? 2015-06-14T04:40:31Z nyef: I decided to go with an RGB / flipping / indirect ink model, pure colors and no design. I may include "pattern" ink later. 2015-06-14T04:41:14Z nyef: No rotation transformations, no skew transformations, no arbitrary affine transformations, points are not regions, no non-rectangular regions. 2015-06-14T04:42:22Z nyef: I have enough small tasks worked out on the geometry layer that if I do one a day I can keep up my github streak for a week, and shouldn't need to spend more than about half an hour a day on them. 2015-06-14T04:42:32Z beach: Excellent, that should simplify things a lot. 2015-06-14T04:42:47Z nyef: Which gives me enough time to work out the next pile of tasks. 2015-06-14T04:43:11Z beach: Yes, I perfectly understand. 2015-06-14T04:43:50Z nyef: And I basically blew off today to do a bit of an endurance test on my bicycle. About 40-45 miles all told. 2015-06-14T04:44:17Z nyef: Usefully unproductive time. (-: 2015-06-14T04:46:19Z stardiviner quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-06-14T04:47:45Z gendl joined #lisp 2015-06-14T04:47:49Z Oladon: Oh other languages, why must you be so much less good than Lisp? 2015-06-14T04:48:19Z beach: nyef: Impressive! 2015-06-14T04:48:28Z beach: Oladon: Just don't use them. 2015-06-14T04:49:00Z Oladon: beach: Well, I wish I could write this browser extension in Lisp.. 2015-06-14T04:49:12Z Oladon: Or get a job coding Lisp. 2015-06-14T04:49:17Z Oladon: But these things, they do not happen. 2015-06-14T04:50:00Z Petit_Dejeuner_: Make your own browser. 2015-06-14T04:50:04Z Petit_Dejeuner_: Make your own company. 2015-06-14T04:50:12Z beach: Or improve Closure. 2015-06-14T04:50:13Z Petit_Dejeuner_: Mozilla2.0 2015-06-14T04:50:22Z Petit_Dejeuner_: beach, Closure? 2015-06-14T04:50:31Z drmeister: Hi beach 2015-06-14T04:50:36Z beach: A web browser in Common Lisp. 2015-06-14T04:50:40Z Petit_Dejeuner_: ah 2015-06-14T04:50:52Z beach: hello drmeister. Thanks for the fix. Pushed it already. 2015-06-14T04:50:59Z drmeister: Excellent. 2015-06-14T04:51:04Z Petit_Dejeuner_: I assume it's older than clozure or clojure, but still nto a great name. 2015-06-14T04:51:07Z Oladon: Petit_Dejeuner_: Heh. 2015-06-14T04:51:27Z drmeister: As you know inlining works - I'm working on CAR, CDR, RPLACA, RPLACD 2015-06-14T04:51:29Z beach: drmeister: What was the problem with cloning progn-ast? 2015-06-14T04:51:37Z beach: drmeister: Excellent! 2015-06-14T04:51:51Z beach: I will be very busy all day. 2015-06-14T04:52:00Z drmeister: There was a subtle problem with non-standard method combinations in Clasp. 2015-06-14T04:52:05Z Oladon: Petit_Dejeuner_: I somewhat like the idea of starting my own company, but the problem is that all the great ideas I come up with lack somewhat in the area of profitability. :P 2015-06-14T04:52:08Z drmeister: (functionp a-method) --> T 2015-06-14T04:52:12Z beach: drmeister: Oh. I see. 2015-06-14T04:52:21Z Petit_Dejeuner_: Oladon, Maybe they're not great ideas? 2015-06-14T04:52:27Z drmeister: That confused the effective-method constructor. 2015-06-14T04:52:29Z Oladon: Petit_Dejeuner_: You wound me, sir. 2015-06-14T04:52:54Z CEnnis91 joined #lisp 2015-06-14T04:54:19Z drmeister: First step done - get cleavir-primop:car recognized as a special operator and inserted into the AST: http://i.imgur.com/6SAdICA.png 2015-06-14T04:54:28Z gendl quit (Quit: gendl) 2015-06-14T04:56:08Z gendl joined #lisp 2015-06-14T04:56:47Z drmeister: Then get it into the HIR: http://i.imgur.com/v8F2RCL.png 2015-06-14T04:59:12Z drmeister: Then get it converted into MIR with the correct offset (CAR-offset[8] - tag[3]) for the CAR of a CONS of a tagged pointer: http://i.imgur.com/HA5ttZ3.png 2015-06-14T04:59:43Z drmeister: That was the tricky new one - it uses the memref2-instruction. 2015-06-14T05:01:09Z gendl quit (Quit: gendl) 2015-06-14T05:01:20Z beach: Looks pretty good. 2015-06-14T05:01:32Z gendl joined #lisp 2015-06-14T05:01:54Z gendl quit (Client Quit) 2015-06-14T05:02:54Z beach: Er, no CONSP test? 2015-06-14T05:03:09Z beach: Looks dangerous. 2015-06-14T05:03:29Z drmeister: No, this is dangerous - I'm just testing CAR by itself. 2015-06-14T05:03:42Z drmeister: Or rather, I just want to see the CAR code in isolation. 2015-06-14T05:04:00Z drmeister: The next thing to do is to inline CONSP test into this code. 2015-06-14T05:04:00Z beach: OK, but the function CAR should contain a CONSP test at some point. 2015-06-14T05:04:10Z beach: OK 2015-06-14T05:04:12Z drmeister: Yes, and a NULL and signal an error 2015-06-14T05:04:24Z beach: Right. Just checking that we agree. 2015-06-14T05:04:28Z drmeister: Yes. 2015-06-14T05:04:46Z beach: This will keep you busy a day or so, right? 2015-06-14T05:05:18Z drmeister: Hah - I could have CAR, CDR, RPLACA and RPLACD done tonight. 2015-06-14T05:05:26Z beach: Damn. 2015-06-14T05:05:33Z futpib joined #lisp 2015-06-14T05:05:39Z beach: I don't want to take time off from the party of the year. 2015-06-14T05:06:00Z drmeister: Do your stuff - I'm ok for now. 2015-06-14T05:06:07Z beach: Whew! 2015-06-14T05:06:42Z drmeister: I want to try and compile Cleavir overnight with all this inlining taking place 2015-06-14T05:07:02Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-06-14T05:07:18Z beach: Please try to see whether you get any improvements in execution time. 2015-06-14T05:07:58Z smokeink joined #lisp 2015-06-14T05:09:14Z drmeister: Hmm, I guess I can turn off the inlining and compile everything, copy out the application and then turn inlining on and compile everything again. 2015-06-14T05:09:31Z nf7 joined #lisp 2015-06-14T05:09:38Z beach: Yeah, something like that. 2015-06-14T05:09:47Z beach: Just to see what happens. 2015-06-14T05:09:56Z nf7: Hey, can I ask a noob Lisp question here? 2015-06-14T05:09:59Z drmeister: Compiling Cleavir with the bootstrapping compiler takes a couple of hours - but I 2015-06-14T05:10:01Z beach: drmeister: So you are convinced you should go MIR first? 2015-06-14T05:10:02Z nyef quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-06-14T05:10:12Z beach: nf7: Yes, you can. 2015-06-14T05:10:14Z Oladon: nf7: of course :) 2015-06-14T05:10:17Z drmeister: could run two compilations in parallel 2015-06-14T05:10:38Z drmeister: beach: How do you mean go MIR first? The MEMREF2 instruction? 2015-06-14T05:10:51Z beach: Yeah. Rather than a Lisp-y LLVM. 2015-06-14T05:11:16Z nf7: I'm wondering how to compile a Lisp source file in to a standalone executable. I can see from the SBCL docs that you need to call the command 'sb-ext:save-lisp-and-die', but I don't even know how to load a source file up in to that REPL. Isn't there some sort of command line switch like there is with GCC? 2015-06-14T05:11:28Z drmeister: Your elocution convinced me. 2015-06-14T05:11:36Z beach: drmeister: Good! 2015-06-14T05:11:58Z drmeister: That and I didn't want to write untagging code over and over again. 2015-06-14T05:12:08Z H4ns: nf7: have a look at buildapp, it packages the process into a command line utility 2015-06-14T05:12:14Z beach: nf7: You should use ASDF to compile your system and then save the image. 2015-06-14T05:12:24Z beach: Or that. 2015-06-14T05:13:29Z nf7: Hmmm ok. So is the manual SBCL well difficult to do? I'd like to learn it just so I understand wth is going on. 2015-06-14T05:13:38Z Oladon: It's not difficult, no :) 2015-06-14T05:14:02Z H4ns: nf7: before you save the image, you need to load the programs that it should contain. 2015-06-14T05:14:08Z Bike: nf7: the manual should mention --load 2015-06-14T05:14:22Z H4ns: nf7: you can do that using load, using asdf or by typing the functions into the repl. 2015-06-14T05:14:45Z Bike: nf7: and in the repl you can use the function "load" 2015-06-14T05:15:07Z nf7: Ok, let me look in to these things, thank you. 2015-06-14T05:15:44Z `dwr: once youre all set and have an entry point function in mind you just supply the keyword arguments :toplevel #'your-entry-point-function and :executable t 2015-06-14T05:15:55Z `dwr: to sb-ext:save-lisp-and-die that is 2015-06-14T05:16:03Z lispyone quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T05:17:53Z nf7: Ok cool. I see that you can run a program with `sbcl --script file.lisp` 2015-06-14T05:18:01Z White_Flame: and then your executable when run brings up everything that was in the image that was saved, and calls the function you gave to save-lisp-and-die 2015-06-14T05:19:06Z nf7: Just out of curiousity, what do all you guys use Lisp for in particular? Like an example of a specific application of Lisp. 2015-06-14T05:19:44Z drmeister: nf7: The Orbitz flight reservation system is written in Common Lisp 2015-06-14T05:19:52Z Bike: i usually use it for exploratory programming. see an algorithm or thing that would be nice to have and whip it out in a few hours. last one was some kinetics stuff. 2015-06-14T05:20:06Z nf7: interesting, I know that reddit was originally written in Lisp as well 2015-06-14T05:20:33Z drmeister: At the Stanford Research Institute they are writing bioinformatics tools in Common Lisp. 2015-06-14T05:21:05Z drmeister: I'm going to be writing tools to design molecules. 2015-06-14T05:21:23Z drmeister: Once I get my freakin' compiler running fast enough. 2015-06-14T05:22:38Z nf7: awesome! 2015-06-14T05:25:20Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2015-06-14T05:33:28Z mrSpec joined #lisp 2015-06-14T05:33:41Z dkcl: nf7: Prototyping, linguistics, utilities, games (try #lispgames) 2015-06-14T05:33:43Z mrSpec quit (Changing host) 2015-06-14T05:33:43Z mrSpec joined #lisp 2015-06-14T05:34:25Z H4ns: drmeister: i did not know that the orbitz is written in common lisp, where did you learn that? 2015-06-14T05:35:07Z H4ns: drmeister: last i heard, they only use ita's qpx to search for flights. 2015-06-14T05:37:28Z dkcl quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T05:37:53Z dkcl joined #lisp 2015-06-14T05:38:15Z drmeister: That may be correct - I don't know the details. 2015-06-14T05:39:09Z dkcl is now known as dickle 2015-06-14T05:39:29Z dickle is now known as dkcl 2015-06-14T05:44:39Z ehu joined #lisp 2015-06-14T05:45:05Z ehaliewi` joined #lisp 2015-06-14T05:45:30Z milosn quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-06-14T05:46:58Z ehaliewicz quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-06-14T05:53:18Z milosn joined #lisp 2015-06-14T06:01:21Z Tristam quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T06:02:31Z drmeister: Here's the details as of 14 years ago. 2015-06-14T06:02:33Z drmeister: http://www.paulgraham.com/carl.html 2015-06-14T06:02:55Z Tristam joined #lisp 2015-06-14T06:07:59Z tmtwd joined #lisp 2015-06-14T06:08:53Z Adlai quit (Quit: Insufficient entropy for original quit message) 2015-06-14T06:11:22Z psy_ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-06-14T06:11:47Z keen______ joined #lisp 2015-06-14T06:12:25Z ggole joined #lisp 2015-06-14T06:13:15Z H4ns: lisp also was in space. there were even machines designed to run lisp exclusively. our glorious past! 2015-06-14T06:13:57Z keen_____ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-06-14T06:14:53Z Quadrescence: RIP LISP, frozen in time, an invention of the past... 2015-06-14T06:15:43Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2015-06-14T06:18:02Z otjura joined #lisp 2015-06-14T06:18:49Z White_Flame: I would hope the minion bot & major CL sites are backed by CL 2015-06-14T06:18:53Z nf7 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T06:19:29Z cyraxjoe_ joined #lisp 2015-06-14T06:19:30Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp 2015-06-14T06:20:07Z pranavrc quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-06-14T06:20:07Z cyraxjoe quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-06-14T06:21:57Z drmeister: beach: Are you still online? 2015-06-14T06:22:14Z drmeister: I'm getting an assertion failure when I compile rplaca 2015-06-14T06:24:09Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/VjUExvLH/ 2015-06-14T06:26:02Z OrangeShark quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-06-14T06:26:09Z drmeister: It's failing here: 2015-06-14T06:26:13Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/JIFYgdCX/ 2015-06-14T06:26:20Z otjura: is there any way to tweak sbcl repl in slime to do tricks like recall last command on arrowkey up? 2015-06-14T06:26:27Z drmeister: From compile-cons-related-asts.lisp 2015-06-14T06:27:07Z edgar-rft: otjura: use control-arrowkeyup 2015-06-14T06:27:48Z otjura: edgar-rft: duh. thanks. 2015-06-14T06:27:57Z arrsim quit (Quit: bye) 2015-06-14T06:28:57Z arrsim joined #lisp 2015-06-14T06:29:42Z drmeister: I got my unsafe-car and unsafe-cdr to work. 2015-06-14T06:31:08Z oleo_ joined #lisp 2015-06-14T06:33:36Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-06-14T06:33:57Z wooden joined #lisp 2015-06-14T06:34:06Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-06-14T06:34:33Z tmtwd: is there a list of of the car, caar, cadr variations out there? 2015-06-14T06:34:36Z drmeister: beach: I think the problem is with the way I'm setting up the my-rplaca function. I can't just convert it to a memset2 function. It needs to return its CONS argument. 2015-06-14T06:34:43Z tmtwd: I'm getting confused 2015-06-14T06:34:51Z Quadrescence: tmtwd, what do you mean? all combinations of CAR and CDR? 2015-06-14T06:35:01Z smokeink joined #lisp 2015-06-14T06:35:30Z tmtwd: Quadrescence, car of the car of the cdr of the car of the cdr etc - I'm referring to the commonly used contractions 2015-06-14T06:35:47Z Quadrescence: tmtwd, just expand the middle letters in order 2015-06-14T06:35:47Z tmtwd: like caadr for example 2015-06-14T06:35:53Z ggole: Everything up to a certain bound iirc 2015-06-14T06:35:57Z tmtwd: caadr = car of the car of the cdr? 2015-06-14T06:35:58Z Quadrescence: CAADR = A A D = (CAR (CAR (CDR X))) 2015-06-14T06:36:30Z tmtwd: CDDR = (CDR (CDR X))? 2015-06-14T06:36:32Z White_Flame: tmtwd: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_car_c.htm 2015-06-14T06:36:36Z Quadrescence: tmtwd, yes 2015-06-14T06:36:39Z drmeister: beach: No, its not the memset2 instruction - it's not even getting there. 2015-06-14T06:36:46Z Quadrescence: tmtwd, it is limited to 4 letters 2015-06-14T06:36:58Z drmeister: This is the AST: http://i.imgur.com/4NQ9dqN.png 2015-06-14T06:37:13Z drmeister: (ast-form '(lambda (x y) (cleavir-primop:rplaca x y))) 2015-06-14T06:37:33Z drmeister: It generates the assertion failure above when I try to generate the HIR 2015-06-14T06:37:47Z tmtwd: okay, quite easy really 2015-06-14T06:38:28Z wooden: is it possible to configure slime such that all output goes to the *slime-repl* buffer? out of the box some output goes to the *Messages* buffer. 2015-06-14T06:39:57Z A205B064 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-06-14T06:40:31Z White_Flame: standard output to other threads go to *inferior-lisp* 2015-06-14T06:40:39Z arrsim quit (Quit: bye) 2015-06-14T06:40:45Z White_Flame: erm, *from* other threads 2015-06-14T06:41:40Z arrsim joined #lisp 2015-06-14T06:41:46Z White_Flame: you could certainly copy the stdout stream from the main slime thread into the other launched thread's binding 2015-06-14T06:42:45Z White_Flame: though thread launching happens outside of slime's awareness, so slime hooking into such output automatically seems a little intrusive in terms of actual execution semantics for your program 2015-06-14T06:46:05Z wooden: White_Flame: thanks for thinking about it. not sure why this is not easier. 2015-06-14T06:46:57Z |3b|: not much goes to *messages* that isn't transient, it would be annoying if all arglist hints went to repl for example 2015-06-14T06:47:24Z |3b| isn't seeing any obvious way to reconfigure the places i can think of that might be useful to change though 2015-06-14T06:48:15Z |3b| usually wraps it in PRINT if i want the result in repl, though equally likely to just evaluate things with C-c C-i when i want to look at the results in detail 2015-06-14T06:48:23Z agumonkey quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-06-14T06:49:28Z wooden: |3b|: if i evaluate functions in a .lisp buffer with C-M-x the return value goes to the minibuffer and if i accidentally hit a key before i look at it, it's gone and i have to go look at the *Messages* buffer, or re-evaluate it. 2015-06-14T06:50:58Z wooden: |3b|: but okay, if all the other lisp users use #'print to keep their output in the repl, i guess that's what i'll do. 2015-06-14T06:51:15Z arrsim quit (Quit: bye) 2015-06-14T06:51:24Z |3b| mostly doesn't use the repl actually :p 2015-06-14T06:51:45Z arrsim joined #lisp 2015-06-14T06:52:31Z |3b|: i usually C-u C-x C-e to print results to buffer (then undo when i'm done looking at it) or evaluate it to inspector with C-c C-i 2015-06-14T06:52:41Z mea-culpa quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T06:53:43Z |3b|: and i'm not suggesting you should put up with an annoying workflow just because i do something differently, having C-M-x log to repl sounds like a reasonable feature request (or something to patch in locally) 2015-06-14T06:54:12Z |3b| is also still looking to see if there is any way to configure it in slime already 2015-06-14T06:54:59Z xificurC quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2) 2015-06-14T06:55:49Z Quadrescence: Does anyone know how to define a :BEFORE method on a SLIME stream that gets executed before they're created? 2015-06-14T06:55:53Z mea-culpa joined #lisp 2015-06-14T06:56:11Z |3b|: wooden: looks like you can do C-c C-j after a form to evaluate it in the repl 2015-06-14T06:57:39Z xificurC joined #lisp 2015-06-14T06:58:33Z tmtwd quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-06-14T07:07:23Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-06-14T07:07:55Z wooden: |3b|: ah, thanks. C-c C-j does eval the previous form in the repl. shame there isn't an equivalent to C-M-x that will eval the top-level form. 2015-06-14T07:09:10Z |3b|: yeah, looks like it would be annoying to build it out of the C-c C-j function, don't see an obvious way to get it to output to minibuffer as well 2015-06-14T07:11:46Z yasha9 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-06-14T07:13:52Z |3b| hadn't noticed C-u works with C-M-x ... not sure if that is a useful feature or not (dumping the result of evaluating a top-level form at some random place in the middle of that form) 2015-06-14T07:18:14Z milosn_ joined #lisp 2015-06-14T07:18:20Z milosn quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-06-14T07:19:07Z milosn_ is now known as milosn 2015-06-14T07:21:13Z wooden: |3b|: what does C-u do in that context? 2015-06-14T07:22:46Z |3b|: C-u makes C-x C-e or C-M-x print the result of the evaluation into the buffer at the cursor instead of into the minibuffer 2015-06-14T07:24:13Z wooden: |3b|: oh, i see. is there a command to eval the expression the point is *in*, rather than the one before or after it? 2015-06-14T07:24:14Z yasha9 joined #lisp 2015-06-14T07:24:45Z wooden: |3b|: i'm coming from vim+slimv where this was all simple. :) 2015-06-14T07:25:11Z |3b|: that's probably a bit harder, since 2 is an expression, but you probably didn't want to evaluate that if you were in (+ 1 2) 2015-06-14T07:25:29Z |3b|: but you might want to evaluate *foo* in (+ 1 *foo*) 2015-06-14T07:25:56Z theos quit (Disconnected by services) 2015-06-14T07:26:19Z pjb: minon: memo for tmtwd: see http://paste.lisp.org/+37LO/1 2015-06-14T07:26:31Z theos joined #lisp 2015-06-14T07:27:22Z wooden: |3b|: am i using the wrong word? should i say "form"? i want a bind that will evaluate (+ 1 2) no matter where the point is inside that, inclusive of the parens. 2015-06-14T07:28:03Z |3b|: not really a terminology problem, more of a UI problem 2015-06-14T07:29:00Z |3b| suspects wanting to evaluate exactly the innermost list containing the cursor is relatively rare, sometimes you want a variable inside the list, or sometimes you want multiple containing lists 2015-06-14T07:29:21Z aap_ is now known as aap 2015-06-14T07:29:24Z |3b|: emacs is quite programmable though, so it probably wouldn't be too hard to make 2015-06-14T07:29:46Z |3b|: (at least once you figure out the pieces to assemble :p ) 2015-06-14T07:30:41Z Shinmera joined #lisp 2015-06-14T07:31:26Z pjb: H4ns: Lisp Machines didn't run lisp exclusively. First they had compilers for several different lisps. Then they had compilers for Fortran, Pascal, Ada, etc. For a time, Lisp Machines were the best Ada workstations. 2015-06-14T07:31:57Z |3b|: i guess the emacs thing would be to specify a prefix-arg to say how many enclosing forms to select 2015-06-14T07:36:35Z copycat joined #lisp 2015-06-14T07:38:32Z gingerale joined #lisp 2015-06-14T07:39:02Z happy-dude quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2015-06-14T07:41:09Z pjb: minon: memo for tmtwd: see expand-cxr http://paste.lisp.org/+37MO 2015-06-14T07:41:21Z pjb: minion: memo for tmtwd: see http://paste.lisp.org/+37LO/1 2015-06-14T07:41:21Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell tmtwd when he/she/it next speaks. 2015-06-14T07:41:25Z pjb: minion: memo for tmtwd: see expand-cxr http://paste.lisp.org/+37MO 2015-06-14T07:41:26Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell tmtwd when he/she/it next speaks. 2015-06-14T07:42:46Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-06-14T07:48:02Z k-dawg quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2015-06-14T07:48:40Z stacksmith quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-06-14T07:48:47Z akkad: cl-pcre be closest to replace-regexp-in-string? 2015-06-14T07:51:44Z bgs100 quit (Quit: bgs100) 2015-06-14T07:58:02Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-06-14T07:58:53Z loz1 joined #lisp 2015-06-14T08:01:12Z |3b|: akkad: ppcre:regex-replace-all looks similar 2015-06-14T08:02:59Z akkad: (replace-all '(base64:usb8-array-to-base64-string (md5:md5sum-string "abc")) "=" "A") ;; is what I came up with. but it does not like this form 2015-06-14T08:03:28Z Quadrescence: why do you have a ' 2015-06-14T08:03:44Z akkad: ahh typo 2015-06-14T08:04:43Z |3b|: if you just want to replace 1 character with another, use SUBSTITUTE 2015-06-14T08:04:57Z akkad: ok thanks 2015-06-14T08:05:16Z akkad: porting some packages I did in elisp 2015-06-14T08:05:31Z |3b|: if you have a regex or different sized/multichar replacement, ppcre-regex-replace-all is more useful 2015-06-14T08:05:53Z akkad: k thanks 2015-06-14T08:09:58Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/) 2015-06-14T08:10:06Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2015-06-14T08:10:20Z akkad: (replace-all "kAFQmDzST7DWlj99KOF/cg==" "=" "A") ;; according to the docs this should be legal. 2015-06-14T08:11:21Z akkad: ahh not in standard 2015-06-14T08:12:30Z Quadrescence: akkad, 2015-06-14T08:12:30Z Quadrescence: CL-USER> (substitute #\A #\= "ABC1=2") 2015-06-14T08:12:31Z Quadrescence: "ABC1A2" 2015-06-14T08:14:45Z akkad: ahh right regexp 2015-06-14T08:19:14Z pjb: akkad: there's in Hemlock, IIRC, some emacs lisp functions. It might be a good idea to start an EMACS-LISP library package that would allow us to run some emacs lisp code without having to do any "porting". 2015-06-14T08:24:26Z akkad: pjb thanks. will check it out 2015-06-14T08:24:59Z przl joined #lisp 2015-06-14T08:26:14Z fractionuser joined #lisp 2015-06-14T08:26:14Z fractionuser left #lisp 2015-06-14T08:28:31Z pt1 joined #lisp 2015-06-14T08:30:12Z cods quit (Quit: !@$%@%#$%) 2015-06-14T08:34:52Z cods joined #lisp 2015-06-14T08:38:55Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T08:41:11Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2015-06-14T08:41:33Z loz1: morning 2015-06-14T08:41:53Z loz1: is there function like assoc, but returning all associations found, not just first one? 2015-06-14T08:43:16Z jtz joined #lisp 2015-06-14T08:44:37Z Shinmera: (loop for a in list when (eql (car a) item) collect a) 2015-06-14T08:44:39Z ggole: loz1: remove-if-not 2015-06-14T08:46:16Z pt1 joined #lisp 2015-06-14T08:47:30Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-06-14T08:49:58Z stepnem joined #lisp 2015-06-14T08:50:59Z ndrei joined #lisp 2015-06-14T08:51:10Z pjb: (all-assoc k a :key kf :test tf) == (remove-if-not k a :key kf :test-not tf) 2015-06-14T08:51:32Z pjb: wait 2015-06-14T08:51:37Z c74d quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T08:52:22Z daimrod quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T08:52:50Z daimrod joined #lisp 2015-06-14T08:53:00Z pjb: (all-assoc k a :key kf :test tf) == (remove k a :key kf :test-not tf) 2015-06-14T08:53:12Z pjb: (all-assoc k a :key kf :test tf) == (remove k a :key (compose kf 'car) :test-not tf) 2015-06-14T08:54:52Z loz1 just realized that assoc does not restrict nested list size 2015-06-14T08:55:30Z loz1: so one can just put several items under same key 2015-06-14T08:55:37Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-06-14T08:55:40Z loz1: no need for all-assoc :) 2015-06-14T08:56:20Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T08:58:07Z c74d joined #lisp 2015-06-14T09:01:40Z ndrei joined #lisp 2015-06-14T09:01:41Z munksgaard joined #lisp 2015-06-14T09:01:44Z hekmek joined #lisp 2015-06-14T09:02:05Z Petit_Dejeuner_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-06-14T09:05:00Z frkout joined #lisp 2015-06-14T09:07:00Z pt1 joined #lisp 2015-06-14T09:08:40Z frkout quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T09:09:27Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-06-14T09:09:50Z frkout joined #lisp 2015-06-14T09:10:08Z dilated_dinosaur quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-06-14T09:10:42Z f3lp quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-06-14T09:12:02Z ndrei joined #lisp 2015-06-14T09:16:08Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-06-14T09:17:09Z mfranzwa joined #lisp 2015-06-14T09:18:34Z przl joined #lisp 2015-06-14T09:20:40Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-06-14T09:21:49Z mfranzwa: goooooood morning LispLandia! 2015-06-14T09:22:34Z dilated_dinosaur joined #lisp 2015-06-14T09:25:32Z standoo joined #lisp 2015-06-14T09:25:37Z standoo: hello 2015-06-14T09:25:50Z standoo: anyone have suggestions for embedded databases for lisp? 2015-06-14T09:28:15Z mfranzwa: hello standoo 2015-06-14T09:28:45Z mfranzwa: I have no suggestions at this moment, sorry 2015-06-14T09:29:12Z hekmek quit (Quit: hekmek) 2015-06-14T09:35:23Z eni joined #lisp 2015-06-14T09:36:04Z ehaliewi` quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-06-14T09:36:42Z pjb: standoo: http://cliki.net/site/search?query=database 2015-06-14T09:36:47Z frkout quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T09:36:54Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2015-06-14T09:38:56Z jackdaniel: picolisp has built-in database support I think 2015-06-14T09:39:48Z pjb: jackdaniel: almost all CL implementations have built-in OO database support: save the lisp image to save a snapshot! 2015-06-14T09:40:52Z jackdaniel: pjb: yes and no, but you know that. something being versatile sometimes shadows particular usecases 2015-06-14T09:40:59Z hardenedapple joined #lisp 2015-06-14T09:41:35Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-06-14T09:41:58Z jackdaniel: best example are programming languages themself - they are capable of doing anything user expects from computer, yet people tend to use applications - humble subset of language potential 2015-06-14T09:42:09Z Shinmera: The question is what qualifies as a database. 2015-06-14T09:42:26Z angavrilov joined #lisp 2015-06-14T09:42:35Z standoo: pjb: that's amazing 2015-06-14T09:43:33Z ndrei joined #lisp 2015-06-14T09:46:05Z eni quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-06-14T09:47:11Z pjb: standoo: notice: since your "database" is a specific data structure in memory, you will have a functional abstraction to access it, at which point you can write an update log to the setters, so that you don't have to save the lisp image too often (eg. once a day). 2015-06-14T09:48:20Z standoo: pjb: i was interested in looking at the ObjectStore databases, but not much had been done on it 2015-06-14T09:48:41Z ndrei quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T09:49:02Z ndrei joined #lisp 2015-06-14T09:49:04Z pjb: They work. They only need to be used. 2015-06-14T09:53:43Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-06-14T09:54:21Z stardiviner joined #lisp 2015-06-14T09:54:27Z ndrei joined #lisp 2015-06-14T09:54:32Z milosn quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-06-14T09:54:57Z standoo: https://github.com/Wukix/LambdaLite 2015-06-14T09:56:19Z pjb: it's in quicklisp too. 2015-06-14T09:56:48Z Posterdati: hi 2015-06-14T09:56:52Z pjb: lo 2015-06-14T09:56:57Z k-stz joined #lisp 2015-06-14T09:57:23Z smokeink joined #lisp 2015-06-14T09:59:00Z milosn joined #lisp 2015-06-14T09:59:39Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-06-14T10:04:50Z ndrei joined #lisp 2015-06-14T10:06:44Z MasterPiece joined #lisp 2015-06-14T10:09:11Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-06-14T10:14:47Z malice joined #lisp 2015-06-14T10:17:58Z klltkr joined #lisp 2015-06-14T10:18:17Z malice: Hello. Quick question: I am completely unfamiliar with asdf. I have a project in asdf. When I push its path to *central-repository* and then I do load-system, I try every combination(:name :Name "name" "Name"), and it doesn't work, but on second iteration when using :name it suddenly works. Am I doing something wrong? 2015-06-14T10:20:32Z copycat quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-06-14T10:21:08Z mfranzwa quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T10:24:05Z Kooda joined #lisp 2015-06-14T10:28:38Z Kooda quit (Client Quit) 2015-06-14T10:29:35Z fourier joined #lisp 2015-06-14T10:31:01Z hardenedapple quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-06-14T10:34:48Z robot-beethoven quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 24.5.1)) 2015-06-14T10:37:38Z ggole quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-06-14T10:38:38Z knobo1 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-06-14T10:39:57Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-06-14T10:43:39Z nowhere_man left #lisp 2015-06-14T10:45:23Z Carisius joined #lisp 2015-06-14T10:47:21Z frkout joined #lisp 2015-06-14T10:48:52Z oleo_ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-06-14T10:49:24Z zacharias_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-06-14T10:49:39Z agumonkey joined #lisp 2015-06-14T10:52:10Z frkout quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-06-14T10:56:36Z Xach: malice: What's :name for? 2015-06-14T10:56:58Z Xach: malice: do you mean (asdf:defsystem :name ...)? 2015-06-14T10:57:57Z redeemed joined #lisp 2015-06-14T10:58:55Z thodg joined #lisp 2015-06-14T10:59:02Z akkad: trying to cleanup this horrible looping. https://github.com/ober/supergenpass-cl/blob/master/supergenpass.lisp 2015-06-14T10:59:28Z thodg quit (Client Quit) 2015-06-14T10:59:39Z oleo joined #lisp 2015-06-14T10:59:39Z oleo quit (Changing host) 2015-06-14T10:59:39Z oleo joined #lisp 2015-06-14T11:02:20Z thodg joined #lisp 2015-06-14T11:03:28Z Carisius quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-06-14T11:04:25Z ggole joined #lisp 2015-06-14T11:06:41Z oleo: morning 2015-06-14T11:07:35Z shka joined #lisp 2015-06-14T11:07:38Z akkad: morning 2015-06-14T11:07:47Z malice: Xach, I'm checking it out. Maybe I just didn't provide :name, because I'm depending on .asd generated by script 2015-06-14T11:08:51Z Xach: malice: the file name should be lowercase, and if you use a symbol, it will be downcased. if you use a string, you should use lowercase too. 2015-06-14T11:09:29Z hardenedapple joined #lisp 2015-06-14T11:09:37Z malice: Xach, so if I have file named Name.lisp, I should rename it to name.lisp? 2015-06-14T11:10:00Z malice: Uppercase works, but I have to load it twice, like it can't find it when first ran. 2015-06-14T11:10:07Z Kooda joined #lisp 2015-06-14T11:10:08Z Xach: malice: no, "name.asd" 2015-06-14T11:10:26Z Xach: source files can be of any case 2015-06-14T11:11:07Z malice: okay. I have "Name.asd", renaming it 2015-06-14T11:14:37Z Xach: malice: are you using a case-preserving, case-insensitive filesystem? 2015-06-14T11:17:00Z pacon quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-06-14T11:17:37Z malice: Tough question, but I guess no. I'm on Linux, ext4 2015-06-14T11:19:32Z pacon joined #lisp 2015-06-14T11:21:12Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T11:21:46Z EvW joined #lisp 2015-06-14T11:23:17Z pacon quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-06-14T11:23:29Z MasterPiece quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-06-14T11:24:38Z pacon joined #lisp 2015-06-14T11:26:44Z tmtwd joined #lisp 2015-06-14T11:27:00Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-06-14T11:41:14Z Ethan- joined #lisp 2015-06-14T11:41:19Z fourier joined #lisp 2015-06-14T11:41:57Z victoroak quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T11:43:53Z pacon quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-06-14T11:44:30Z Zotan quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-06-14T11:44:37Z Zotan joined #lisp 2015-06-14T11:45:14Z pacon joined #lisp 2015-06-14T11:48:18Z pacon quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-06-14T11:49:40Z pacon joined #lisp 2015-06-14T11:54:33Z loz1 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-06-14T11:55:55Z loz1 joined #lisp 2015-06-14T11:58:14Z zacharias_ joined #lisp 2015-06-14T12:00:14Z sdothum joined #lisp 2015-06-14T12:03:58Z jackdaniel: /°±°\ 2015-06-14T12:05:58Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-06-14T12:06:04Z BitPuffin|osx joined #lisp 2015-06-14T12:08:40Z Ethan- quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T12:09:47Z Quadrescence quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2015-06-14T12:10:17Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T12:19:42Z A205B064 joined #lisp 2015-06-14T12:20:15Z skrue quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-06-14T12:20:57Z skrue joined #lisp 2015-06-14T12:22:21Z ronh- quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T12:22:49Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-06-14T12:24:16Z pacon quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-06-14T12:28:12Z eli joined #lisp 2015-06-14T12:28:12Z eli quit (Changing host) 2015-06-14T12:28:12Z eli joined #lisp 2015-06-14T12:31:06Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-06-14T12:34:07Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-06-14T12:38:02Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-06-14T12:38:10Z gravicappa joined #lisp 2015-06-14T12:39:56Z hardenedapple quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2) 2015-06-14T12:39:57Z dkcl quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T12:42:05Z dkcl joined #lisp 2015-06-14T12:48:37Z tmtwd joined #lisp 2015-06-14T12:50:21Z EvW joined #lisp 2015-06-14T12:59:41Z klltkr quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-06-14T13:00:31Z nyef joined #lisp 2015-06-14T13:01:39Z fourier joined #lisp 2015-06-14T13:02:54Z TDT joined #lisp 2015-06-14T13:03:37Z standoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-06-14T13:04:16Z drmeister: Hello 2015-06-14T13:04:18Z tcr joined #lisp 2015-06-14T13:04:27Z drmeister: beach: Are you online? 2015-06-14T13:04:37Z dilated_dinosaur quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-06-14T13:05:15Z malice quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-06-14T13:06:41Z d3m1gd joined #lisp 2015-06-14T13:07:03Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-06-14T13:07:08Z nyef: G'morning all. 2015-06-14T13:07:44Z drmeister: Hi nyef 2015-06-14T13:08:10Z EvW quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T13:08:30Z EvW joined #lisp 2015-06-14T13:08:48Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-06-14T13:09:49Z rvchangue_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-06-14T13:10:25Z TDT quit (Quit: TDT) 2015-06-14T13:10:39Z drmeister: I'm working on inlining CAR, CDR, RPLACA and RPLACD. 2015-06-14T13:11:06Z drmeister: I'm getting an assertion failure generating HIR for RPLACA/RPLACD. Investigating now that I've had some sleep 2015-06-14T13:12:28Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-06-14T13:13:02Z drmeister: nyef: When SBCL handles errors, does it generate an interrupt and then inline info on the error right after the int 03? 2015-06-14T13:13:12Z TDT joined #lisp 2015-06-14T13:13:38Z TDT quit (Client Quit) 2015-06-14T13:13:53Z nyef: For the internal-error mechanism, yes. 2015-06-14T13:14:08Z nyef: For anything else, it generates a full call to ERROR. 2015-06-14T13:14:19Z gendl joined #lisp 2015-06-14T13:15:07Z drmeister: Does it save a lot of bytes? 2015-06-14T13:18:01Z nyef: For an OBJECT-NOT-TYPE-ERROR, it costs a MOVE to load a description of the type into a register, the trap code (2-3 bytes, depending on platform), and the "error description", call it 4-7 bytes, as it depends partly on which registers are used. 2015-06-14T13:18:15Z hajovonta: re 2015-06-14T13:18:19Z nyef: That's off the top of my head. 2015-06-14T13:18:26Z nyef: Actual figures may differ a bit. 2015-06-14T13:18:37Z malice joined #lisp 2015-06-14T13:18:55Z gendl_ joined #lisp 2015-06-14T13:19:31Z gendl_ quit (Client Quit) 2015-06-14T13:21:03Z gendl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-06-14T13:21:46Z gendl joined #lisp 2015-06-14T13:21:53Z drmeister: It's funny that it takes so much work to generate as little code as possible. 2015-06-14T13:22:25Z drmeister: I'm thinking about using metadata somehow 2015-06-14T13:23:22Z Ukari joined #lisp 2015-06-14T13:25:08Z ggole: It's probably undecidable to emit the smallest possible code. 2015-06-14T13:26:42Z gendl quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T13:28:50Z Kooda quit (Quit: Squee!) 2015-06-14T13:29:37Z dilated_dinosaur joined #lisp 2015-06-14T13:32:12Z Somnasper joined #lisp 2015-06-14T13:32:49Z Somnasper: So many people and no one alive? 2015-06-14T13:37:09Z hajovonta: im alive 2015-06-14T13:37:12Z hajovonta: i think 2015-06-14T13:37:37Z malice quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-06-14T13:37:40Z Shinmera: People value good silence over idle chatter here. 2015-06-14T13:38:31Z Somnasper: I can get behind that 2015-06-14T13:39:42Z psy_ joined #lisp 2015-06-14T13:39:44Z ndrei joined #lisp 2015-06-14T13:41:07Z przl joined #lisp 2015-06-14T13:46:59Z clop2 joined #lisp 2015-06-14T13:50:24Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-06-14T13:50:49Z psy_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-06-14T13:51:23Z smokeink joined #lisp 2015-06-14T13:52:28Z hardenedapple joined #lisp 2015-06-14T13:53:04Z Somnasper: Is there a real advantage to using CLinch or CEPL,or would it be better to just use cl-opengl straight? 2015-06-14T13:59:02Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2015-06-14T13:59:54Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-06-14T14:00:05Z jackdaniel: Somnasper: cl-opengl is mere a binding, if you want to write C in Lisp, then it's ok. CLinch and CEPL give you primitives for lisp programming 2015-06-14T14:01:22Z Ven joined #lisp 2015-06-14T14:01:33Z Somnasper: I figured, just wondered if anyone knew how useful those primitives were 2015-06-14T14:01:49Z copycat joined #lisp 2015-06-14T14:02:20Z jackdaniel: never used cepl (but was impressed at els with presentation). Clinch is very pleasent to use 2015-06-14T14:02:33Z jackdaniel: and has a few tutorials 2015-06-14T14:02:46Z fourier joined #lisp 2015-06-14T14:03:17Z Somnasper: The tutorials were very nice, and the cepl videos were really intriguing 2015-06-14T14:04:03Z Somnasper: I just wasn't able to find much enthusiasm outside places they were explicitly brought up, like example projects - just people experimenting with raw cl-opengl 2015-06-14T14:04:43Z Somnasper: I might not be looking in the right places, though 2015-06-14T14:05:01Z Shinmera: CEPL is fairly new and under rapid development from what I understand, so it's not too surprising there aren't projects out there that use it actively. 2015-06-14T14:05:13Z jackdaniel: I think 3d programming isn't very widespread among lispers, and both libs are kinda fresh 2015-06-14T14:05:31Z Shinmera: Since the community isn't that large, things take time to catch on and develop into larger projects. 2015-06-14T14:06:06Z Shinmera: jackdaniel: the #lispgames channel is quite active. 2015-06-14T14:06:12Z jackdaniel: and it's so tempting to reinvent a wheel, cl is so much fun, aint it? 2015-06-14T14:06:37Z jackdaniel: Shinmera: hm, never saw 3d lisp game tbh 2015-06-14T14:06:48Z grouzen joined #lisp 2015-06-14T14:07:07Z Somnasper: Haha yeah, there's the temptation to just do everything myself if I'm going to be learning OpenGL anyway 2015-06-14T14:07:13Z Shinmera: jackdaniel: someone that visits this channel is working on one and has posted screenshots and videos before. 2015-06-14T14:07:20Z Shinmera: The nick eludes me at the moment. 2015-06-14T14:07:38Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-06-14T14:08:03Z Somnasper: I was intending to make an OpenFrameworks app for the visuals and integrate the AI via ECL or CLASP later, now wondering if it not might be better to get it all in the REPL 2015-06-14T14:08:20Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-06-14T14:08:33Z Somnasper: Especially since something about working with a strongly typed language seems to quash all my enthusiasm 2015-06-14T14:09:06Z jackdaniel: if there are AI libs in C/C++ working for you, it would be a waste of time to rewrite them 2015-06-14T14:09:19Z jackdaniel: creating nice wrapper around them might be profitable tough 2015-06-14T14:09:59Z jackdaniel: and you can always integrate with cffi - more general approach 2015-06-14T14:10:13Z malice joined #lisp 2015-06-14T14:11:28Z Somnasper: Nah, definitely want to work sheerly with LISP for the AI side, love of older programs like MicroTalespin got me interested in the language in the first place 2015-06-14T14:12:18Z jackdaniel: I've noticed, that longer the nick, more self confident is the owner of his own opinion. that may be why I use such strong words as waste of time :) 2015-06-14T14:12:48Z jackdaniel: what doesn't say anything good about me.. sight 2015-06-14T14:12:48Z failproofshark looks at the length of his name 2015-06-14T14:12:55Z failproofshark: crud 2015-06-14T14:12:57Z jackdaniel: sigh° 2015-06-14T14:13:11Z Somnasper: Sorry, didn't mean to sound that way! 2015-06-14T14:13:13Z hiroakip quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-06-14T14:13:27Z Shinmera: My nick should have negative length if that were true. 2015-06-14T14:13:34Z jackdaniel: it was self-directed irony, nothing wrong with anything you said Somnasper &_& 2015-06-14T14:14:47Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2015-06-14T14:15:21Z Somnasper: oh good 2015-06-14T14:15:43Z jackdaniel: how modest of you Shinmera 2015-06-14T14:15:55Z happy-dude joined #lisp 2015-06-14T14:16:01Z wilfredh joined #lisp 2015-06-14T14:16:17Z cluck joined #lisp 2015-06-14T14:20:13Z mea-culpa quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T14:24:03Z pjb: ggole: it's not undecidable, assuming that there is a possible code, because there's a finite number if smaller combinations than the one you have. 2015-06-14T14:24:26Z pjb: Somnasper: there's #lispcafe for idle chat. 2015-06-14T14:24:49Z ggole: pjb: the problem is deciding equality of the smaller combination could take an arbitrary amount of computation 2015-06-14T14:24:50Z pjb: Somnasper: also, #lispgame is more aware of cl-opengl and similar stuff. 2015-06-14T14:25:15Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-06-14T14:25:23Z Shinmera: * #lispgames 2015-06-14T14:26:25Z pjb: ggole: I don't see that. By the way, IIRC, gcc has Automatic Generation of Peephole Superoptimizers http://theory.stanford.edu/~aiken/publications/papers/asplos06.pdf 2015-06-14T14:28:53Z ggole: Superoptimizers are limited to basic blocks (or extensions, such as forward-jump only code), so they miss loop or recursion optimisations (which is where most of the tractability problems come in) 2015-06-14T14:29:00Z ggole: Still a neat idea. 2015-06-14T14:30:58Z przl joined #lisp 2015-06-14T14:34:28Z clop2 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-06-14T14:35:47Z tmtwd joined #lisp 2015-06-14T14:36:26Z tmtwd: hi 2015-06-14T14:36:26Z minion: tmtwd, memo from pjb: see http://paste.lisp.org/+37LO/1 2015-06-14T14:36:26Z minion: tmtwd, memo from pjb: see expand-cxr http://paste.lisp.org/+37MO 2015-06-14T14:38:04Z d3m1gd left #lisp 2015-06-14T14:38:11Z pt1 joined #lisp 2015-06-14T14:39:17Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-06-14T14:40:17Z pjb: tmtwd: in both cases, the lesson is: use lisp to help you with lisp! 2015-06-14T14:41:28Z tmtwd: oh wow that is ... daunting 2015-06-14T14:42:26Z przl joined #lisp 2015-06-14T14:42:55Z pjb: Type M-. on tree-diff to see the sources. It's only 5 lines long! A single cond! 2015-06-14T14:44:00Z Petit_Dejeuner_ joined #lisp 2015-06-14T14:48:58Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2015-06-14T14:50:00Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-06-14T14:58:21Z Somnasper quit (Quit: Page closed) 2015-06-14T14:59:16Z ndrei joined #lisp 2015-06-14T14:59:17Z josemanuel joined #lisp 2015-06-14T14:59:22Z tmtwd: how do I call M- ? 2015-06-14T15:04:55Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-06-14T15:04:59Z pjb: Type ESC, or the key you've bound to the meta modifier. 2015-06-14T15:05:31Z pjb: For example, I have keycode 64 = Meta_L / keycode 108 = Meta_R / add Mod3 = Meta_L Meta_R in my ~/.xmodmap 2015-06-14T15:05:55Z pjb: so I type the key 64 or 108. 2015-06-14T15:06:16Z pjb: If you don't know your keycodes, you can use xev(1) to find them out. 2015-06-14T15:08:44Z isoraqathedh: M-. usually becomes ALT+fullstop on Windows, but of course you may be using something else. 2015-06-14T15:08:53Z ehaliewi` joined #lisp 2015-06-14T15:09:00Z cluck: alt is usually meta, unless you're on a mac 2015-06-14T15:09:37Z pjb: akkad: ~/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/hemlock-20120909-git/unused/elisp/README 2015-06-14T15:10:20Z pjb: cluck: no, not at all. My .xmodmap contains: keycode 133 = Alt_L / add Mod2 = Alt_L Alt_R Mode_switch ; which is very very different than Meta. 2015-06-14T15:11:14Z sheilong joined #lisp 2015-06-14T15:13:17Z ehaliewi` quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-06-14T15:14:22Z mrSpec quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T15:15:58Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-06-14T15:16:19Z tmtwd: i know the meta key 2015-06-14T15:16:24Z tmtwd: but what do I do? 2015-06-14T15:16:29Z tmtwd: M- tree-diff? 2015-06-14T15:16:33Z pjb: M-. 2015-06-14T15:17:06Z pjb: You move the cursor on tree-difference, or on com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.list:tree-difference depending on what you've used or imported, and then you type M-. 2015-06-14T15:17:45Z pjb: alternatively, you may type M-x slime-edit-definition RET 2015-06-14T15:18:11Z pjb: Type C-h w slime-edit-definition RET to know what key you can type to run the command. 2015-06-14T15:18:32Z pjb: Type C-h k M-. to know what command is bound to that key. 2015-06-14T15:19:29Z Patzy quit (Quit: leaving) 2015-06-14T15:19:38Z Patzy joined #lisp 2015-06-14T15:21:42Z ebrasca joined #lisp 2015-06-14T15:24:09Z fsvehla joined #lisp 2015-06-14T15:24:23Z Patzy quit (Client Quit) 2015-06-14T15:24:33Z Patzy joined #lisp 2015-06-14T15:26:03Z Patzy quit (Client Quit) 2015-06-14T15:26:21Z stacksmith joined #lisp 2015-06-14T15:26:28Z Patzy joined #lisp 2015-06-14T15:29:17Z tmtwd quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-06-14T15:34:18Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T15:35:48Z ndrei joined #lisp 2015-06-14T15:36:37Z Petit_Dejeuner_ quit (Read error: Connection timed out) 2015-06-14T15:37:25Z Petit_Dejeuner_ joined #lisp 2015-06-14T15:39:21Z k-stz joined #lisp 2015-06-14T15:40:30Z clop2 joined #lisp 2015-06-14T15:40:46Z Zotan quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T15:41:18Z zacharias_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-06-14T15:49:03Z zaquest quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-06-14T15:50:13Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-06-14T15:51:13Z grouzen joined #lisp 2015-06-14T15:51:26Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-06-14T15:53:08Z zaquest joined #lisp 2015-06-14T15:54:14Z futpib quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2015-06-14T15:58:48Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-06-14T15:59:32Z ejbs joined #lisp 2015-06-14T16:00:55Z fourier joined #lisp 2015-06-14T16:03:59Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-06-14T16:07:46Z cpc26 joined #lisp 2015-06-14T16:07:47Z stardiviner quit (Quit: Weird in coding now, or make love, only two things push me away from IRC.) 2015-06-14T16:08:12Z Zotan joined #lisp 2015-06-14T16:09:32Z futpib joined #lisp 2015-06-14T16:09:50Z lispyone joined #lisp 2015-06-14T16:10:49Z Ukari quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-06-14T16:13:25Z Zotan quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T16:13:50Z Zotan joined #lisp 2015-06-14T16:13:57Z EvW joined #lisp 2015-06-14T16:14:08Z cadadar joined #lisp 2015-06-14T16:16:49Z jdm_ joined #lisp 2015-06-14T16:17:42Z ejbs` joined #lisp 2015-06-14T16:19:30Z dkcl quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T16:19:38Z ejbs quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-06-14T16:20:11Z shka quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T16:20:35Z shka joined #lisp 2015-06-14T16:22:51Z tcr quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-06-14T16:22:59Z tokenrove: Any estimates on what percentage of Lispers are using ASDF 3? 2015-06-14T16:23:59Z victoroak joined #lisp 2015-06-14T16:24:03Z hajovonta quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2015-06-14T16:24:05Z Xach: tokenrove: of those who use asdf, i'd guess it's 75-90% 2015-06-14T16:25:26Z Xach still wants to add asdf 3 to quicklisp sometime soon 2015-06-14T16:27:03Z copycat quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-06-14T16:28:22Z tokenrove: I'm wondering to what extent it's important to maintain compatibility with earlier versions. Most implementations even ship with it, right? 2015-06-14T16:28:36Z ronh- joined #lisp 2015-06-14T16:29:02Z happy-dude quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2015-06-14T16:29:11Z xtan joined #lisp 2015-06-14T16:30:01Z psy_ joined #lisp 2015-06-14T16:30:37Z psy_ quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2015-06-14T16:30:49Z Zotan quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T16:30:58Z Xach: yes. 2015-06-14T16:31:15Z Zotan joined #lisp 2015-06-14T16:31:17Z tokenrove: Thanks. That gives me a general idea. 2015-06-14T16:31:25Z psy_ joined #lisp 2015-06-14T16:31:51Z clop2 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-06-14T16:32:14Z Shinmera: ASDF should also be backwards compatible, so upgrading shouldn't be an issue in most cases. 2015-06-14T16:34:32Z Xach: There's no real way to know how many private projects are broken by asdf 3 until people upgrade and complain, or just stop using asdf3 or lisp. 2015-06-14T16:34:47Z Shinmera: Right. 2015-06-14T16:34:59Z gingerale quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T16:36:12Z tokenrove: Shinmera: well, I started using some things like :asdf-user which aren't backwards compatible, which was probably a mistake, at least until asdf 3 is ubiquitous. 2015-06-14T16:36:54Z Shinmera: By the sounds of it, is that a package with :use :asdf or something similar? 2015-06-14T16:37:02Z tokenrove: (and uiop) 2015-06-14T16:37:17Z Shinmera: I see. 2015-06-14T16:37:38Z Shinmera: Imo all the -user packages should be reserved for REPL sessions anyway. 2015-06-14T16:38:04Z Shinmera: So that package was removed for 3? Do you know the reason? 2015-06-14T16:38:04Z futpib quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T16:38:31Z tokenrove: No, asdf-user was added to asdf 3, and it is kind of convenient. 2015-06-14T16:38:37Z Shinmera: Oh, I see. 2015-06-14T16:38:52Z tokenrove: (see the discussion here: https://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf.html#The-defsystem-form) 2015-06-14T16:39:15Z knobo1 joined #lisp 2015-06-14T16:39:31Z Shinmera: Right. 2015-06-14T16:39:47Z tokenrove: anyway, none of the ASDF 3 features are critical, of course; it's just that it would be nice to be able to use them unapologetically, but that may not be the case yet. 2015-06-14T16:40:04Z Shinmera: I use :homepage in all my projects, which is an ASDF3 feature 2015-06-14T16:40:28Z pjb: #+asdf3 :homepage #+adsf3 "http://…" I guess then. 2015-06-14T16:40:28Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-06-14T16:40:51Z pt1 joined #lisp 2015-06-14T16:40:57Z Shinmera: Right, but I don't care to. People can upgrade or remove it themselves and face potential consequences of staying on an old version. 2015-06-14T16:41:14Z pjb: That is, if you distribute under quicklisp. 2015-06-14T16:41:51Z Kooda joined #lisp 2015-06-14T16:42:45Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-06-14T16:43:01Z eni joined #lisp 2015-06-14T16:43:51Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2015-06-14T16:45:45Z przl joined #lisp 2015-06-14T16:49:49Z Patzy quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T16:49:58Z Patzy joined #lisp 2015-06-14T16:52:16Z xtan quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-06-14T16:54:18Z dim: Xach: is the asdf3 induced breakage big? 2015-06-14T16:55:03Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-06-14T16:55:15Z Xach: dim: IIRC it was subtle things. every library in quicklisp was fixed, sometimes personally by Fare. 2015-06-14T16:56:16Z nyef: Is there a list of symptoms of breakage and prescribed treatments? 2015-06-14T16:56:48Z rpg joined #lisp 2015-06-14T16:56:50Z tcr joined #lisp 2015-06-14T16:56:54Z OxMLR joined #lisp 2015-06-14T16:57:13Z Harag joined #lisp 2015-06-14T16:58:57Z Xach: Probably on the asdf-devel list from a few years ago 2015-06-14T16:59:54Z rpg: Just joined: if there was an asdf-devel question, I might be able to answer, but you'd have to restate. 2015-06-14T17:00:16Z Longlius quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-06-14T17:00:43Z rpg: Is there a page out there, by any chance, that provides information about various implementations' facilities for source location recording? 2015-06-14T17:01:13Z pjb: Probably the best source would be swank. 2015-06-14T17:01:18Z rpg: E.g., if you define a new class and want to record source file location for definitions of instances of that class? 2015-06-14T17:01:37Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-06-14T17:01:56Z rpg: Working on the SHOP2 planner, I'd like to record source file location information for DOMAIN and PROBLEM structures created by DEFDOMAIN and DEFPROBLEM 2015-06-14T17:02:16Z CrLF0710` quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-06-14T17:03:24Z gendl joined #lisp 2015-06-14T17:04:14Z Longlius joined #lisp 2015-06-14T17:04:27Z Longlius quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T17:05:42Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-06-14T17:06:06Z gendl quit (Client Quit) 2015-06-14T17:06:07Z pjb: rpg: well, slime/swank seems incapable of finding the source of a lisp object. Only the source of a function or a variable can be found. 2015-06-14T17:06:16Z pyon quit (Quit: fix config) 2015-06-14T17:06:22Z pjb: or a type, class, etc. 2015-06-14T17:06:28Z pjb: Something that's named. 2015-06-14T17:06:55Z rpg: pjb: Allegro, at least, allows you to invoke EXCL:RECORD-SOURCE-FILE to extend this protocol. It's very handy. 2015-06-14T17:07:06Z pyon joined #lisp 2015-06-14T17:08:05Z pjb: I guess you could register source references for data items (perhaps in a weak hash table) yourself, and hook it into slime, since it has slime-edit-definition-hooks. 2015-06-14T17:08:26Z oleo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-06-14T17:08:35Z przl joined #lisp 2015-06-14T17:09:24Z ejbs`` joined #lisp 2015-06-14T17:10:11Z tcr left #lisp 2015-06-14T17:10:36Z lispyone quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T17:11:11Z lispyone joined #lisp 2015-06-14T17:11:52Z ejbs` quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-06-14T17:13:51Z f3lp joined #lisp 2015-06-14T17:14:00Z OxMLR: Is Lisp being killed by Haskell? 2015-06-14T17:14:10Z eni quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-06-14T17:14:35Z ASau` joined #lisp 2015-06-14T17:15:45Z lispyone quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-06-14T17:15:50Z failproofshark: OxMLR: in the kitchen with the candlestick 2015-06-14T17:15:56Z hardenedapple quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2) 2015-06-14T17:16:26Z failproofshark: i apologize for the joke but OxMLR what makes you say that? 2015-06-14T17:17:26Z lispyone joined #lisp 2015-06-14T17:17:38Z failproofshark: do oyu mean like in terms of active developed projects? number of libraries available? 2015-06-14T17:17:50Z OxMLR: I've been dedicating a lot of time trying to learn CL and everyone ive asked for advice points to Haskell and says for me to not waste my time on a language that is being replaced largely by a more widely-used language (haskell) 2015-06-14T17:18:07Z OxMLR: And both libraries and projects i suppose 2015-06-14T17:18:34Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-06-14T17:18:35Z Shinmera: They're fundamentally different, so I don't see how "replace" is a suitable word. 2015-06-14T17:19:55Z rpg quit (Quit: rpg) 2015-06-14T17:20:15Z wat joined #lisp 2015-06-14T17:20:15Z OxMLR: Maybe a better question would be "Is there a future in Lisp?" 2015-06-14T17:20:25Z failproofshark: I share the same sentiments as Shinmera however i'm new so I'm not sure how much I can say on the matter (or at least say with a lot of authority). 2015-06-14T17:20:34Z ASau` is now known as ASau 2015-06-14T17:20:39Z ggole: OxMLR: it's no deader than usual, and people have been asking that question for a long time now 2015-06-14T17:21:23Z failproofshark: OxMLR: its not a good idea to learn something with the "future" in mind 2015-06-14T17:21:25Z nyef: ... Haskell is widely used now? 2015-06-14T17:21:37Z Shinmera: OxMLR: There is a future if you want one to be there. 2015-06-14T17:21:46Z failproofshark: rather you should look into what Lisp offers and understand its ideas 2015-06-14T17:21:55Z failproofshark: haskell, has ideas you could learn from as with any other language 2015-06-14T17:21:57Z lispyone quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-06-14T17:21:58Z jdm_: I've been toying with CL for a couple of months, and I have not played with Haskell. But I suspect the advice you are getting is from people who think CL is a purely functional language, which is a misconception. 2015-06-14T17:22:26Z ggole: Typed pure FP is a pretty different world to CL. 2015-06-14T17:22:26Z bgs100 joined #lisp 2015-06-14T17:23:02Z Shinmera: OxMLR: I wrote over forty libraries in the two years I've used CL now. I would have quite a twisted mind if I did all that while thinking that there wasn't any future for them to be used in. 2015-06-14T17:23:45Z cpc26 quit 2015-06-14T17:24:11Z pjb: OxMLR: basically, lisp and haskell are orthogonal. IMO, there's is zero influence of one onto the other in terms of popularity or mindshare, given the little number of users of either. 2015-06-14T17:24:28Z pjb: OxMLR: and this, despite Liskell and the assumedly non-empty intersection. 2015-06-14T17:25:37Z pjb: OxMLR: let me ask a simple question about Haskell: can it infer the type (a type) for this expression: (if (zerop (random 2)) 1 "hello") ? 2015-06-14T17:26:36Z pjb: OxMLR: because in lisp this expression has a perfectly defined type of (member 1 "hello"), subtype of (or integer string) subtype of (or number vector) subtype of T, to mention only a few possible types in the latice. 2015-06-14T17:27:05Z pjb: Once you tell us what type haskell infers for this expression, I'll tell you which language will still be live in 40 years. 2015-06-14T17:27:06Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-06-14T17:27:21Z pjb: (or until the singularity, whichever occurs first). 2015-06-14T17:27:35Z nyef: ... Fortran? 2015-06-14T17:27:51Z Shinmera: 50$ on COBOL 2015-06-14T17:27:57Z nyef: No bet. 2015-06-14T17:28:01Z ggole: Javascript for sure 2015-06-14T17:28:22Z jdm_: I read something about a month ago that said 90% of ATM transactions still execute COBOL code! 2015-06-14T17:28:42Z nyef: ggole: No, no... The joke here is that Fortran, COBOL, and Lisp have ALREADY been around for 40 years. 2015-06-14T17:28:51Z jdm_: But that's not quite what we mean by having a future :) Nobody would set out to write something in COBOL. 2015-06-14T17:29:11Z failproofshark: COBOL++ 2015-06-14T17:29:13Z Shinmera isn't so sure about that 2015-06-14T17:29:21Z OxMLR: That's very reassuring 2015-06-14T17:29:43Z nyef: I can easily see circumstances under which writing a new COBOL program would make sense. 2015-06-14T17:29:54Z failproofshark: nyef: you found a time machine? 2015-06-14T17:30:20Z nyef: No, a well-preserved legacy system still in constant use that needs a new program or two. 2015-06-14T17:30:38Z nyef: If I had a time machine, I've got a little shopping list. 2015-06-14T17:30:53Z copycat joined #lisp 2015-06-14T17:30:56Z oleo joined #lisp 2015-06-14T17:31:16Z jdm_: nyef, that's right, but is predicated on having a legacy system. Basically, you keep COBOL around only because you have to support things from the time of COBOL. That is different from why lisp is still around. 2015-06-14T17:31:41Z nyef: Sure. But given the legacy system, you would consider writing new programs in COBOL. 2015-06-14T17:31:53Z jdm_: Yup, that's fair 2015-06-14T17:32:17Z nyef: Okay, the OTHER reason would be "hack value". 2015-06-14T17:33:44Z EvW joined #lisp 2015-06-14T17:34:09Z OxMLR: What are some good Lisp communities to see Lisp related news/discussion/articles? 2015-06-14T17:35:22Z jdm_: http://planet.lisp.org/ is an aggregation of lisp related blogs 2015-06-14T17:35:40Z Shinmera: There's also http://www.reddit.com/r/lisp 2015-06-14T17:35:44Z Shinmera: and this channel. 2015-06-14T17:35:53Z Shinmera: Occasionally things pop up on Hackernews as well. 2015-06-14T17:39:45Z failproofshark: OxMLR: theres also lispweb and lispgames for web and game domains if you're interested 2015-06-14T17:39:48Z failproofshark: on irc 2015-06-14T17:40:58Z Shinmera: http://cliki.net/IRC 2015-06-14T17:41:15Z Shinmera: (also, what's up with cliki not having an HTTPS version) 2015-06-14T17:41:45Z `dwr: The fact that ATM's run on 50 year old codebases is just a testament to the influence of the people who sold them that bloat in the first place 2015-06-14T17:41:50Z `dwr: j/k ;p 2015-06-14T17:42:15Z xtan joined #lisp 2015-06-14T17:42:30Z `dwr left #lisp 2015-06-14T17:43:43Z nyef: Alternately, it's a testament to them not making 'em like they used to. (-: 2015-06-14T17:45:51Z pjb: jdm_: I can assure you that people in insurance or bank companies are hired and keep writing new programs in COBOL. There are even cobol webapp servers to generate your web pages from cobol! 2015-06-14T17:46:03Z pjb: check out OpenCobol on Linux! 2015-06-14T17:46:08Z xtan2 joined #lisp 2015-06-14T17:46:31Z pjb: nyef: COBOL is a business DSL! 2015-06-14T17:46:39Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-06-14T17:46:54Z xtan quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-06-14T17:48:23Z pjb: If the SAGE radar system was used so long, it's not because they liked the way it was programmed in assembler with punch cards, it's because several times they tried to re-implement it on more modern systems, and failed. 2015-06-14T17:49:02Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2015-06-14T17:49:21Z Ven joined #lisp 2015-06-14T17:50:04Z papachan joined #lisp 2015-06-14T17:50:24Z Kooda quit (Quit: Squee!) 2015-06-14T17:51:23Z papachan: hello there 2015-06-14T17:51:42Z papachan: need to know how i can run my project tests from fiveam 2015-06-14T17:51:58Z papachan: any ideas? 2015-06-14T17:52:29Z papachan: trying to call run method but it failed 2015-06-14T17:52:42Z Kooda joined #lisp 2015-06-14T17:53:07Z nyef: The snarky answer would be "use cron", but that's almost certainly not what you are asking about. 2015-06-14T17:53:13Z pjb: I guess reading the doc would help. 2015-06-14T17:53:22Z pjb: But I wrote my own simple-test package, so… 2015-06-14T17:53:56Z Xach: papachan: what happened when it failed? 2015-06-14T17:54:15Z papachan: Xach, look 2015-06-14T17:54:35Z pjb: http://paste.lisp.org/new 2015-06-14T17:54:41Z nyef sighs. 2015-06-14T17:54:57Z nyef: Yet another case of some object being declared as a named constant. 2015-06-14T17:55:18Z nyef: At this point, I'm starting to think that I need a mixin class for this noise. 2015-06-14T17:55:44Z NaNDude quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-06-14T17:55:51Z NNaNDude joined #lisp 2015-06-14T17:56:04Z nyef: Oh. two more. Right, mixin class it is, then. 2015-06-14T17:56:07Z papachan: Xach, https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/46395126/Selection_013.png 2015-06-14T17:56:34Z Bike: you probably mean (time (run! 'duras-test)) 2015-06-14T17:56:52Z Xach: papachan: that is not the right syntax 2015-06-14T17:56:57Z pjb: clhs time 2015-06-14T17:56:58Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_time.htm 2015-06-14T17:57:26Z pjb: papachan: http://cliki.net/Online+Tutorial 2015-06-14T17:57:33Z papachan: ; Evaluation aborted on #. 2015-06-14T17:57:58Z pjb: (apropos "RUN!") 2015-06-14T17:58:17Z Xach: papachan: What is duras? 2015-06-14T17:58:25Z papachan: my package 2015-06-14T17:58:59Z Xach: papachan: does it :use the fiveam package, or import run! from it? 2015-06-14T17:59:02Z papachan: where i have put a package file and a test file package called duras-test 2015-06-14T17:59:08Z papachan: look 2015-06-14T17:59:15Z pjb: http://paste.lisp.org/new 2015-06-14T17:59:35Z rpg joined #lisp 2015-06-14T18:00:13Z tmtwd joined #lisp 2015-06-14T18:01:05Z papachan: Xach, http://paste.awesom.eu/raw/papachan/aZZu 2015-06-14T18:01:37Z NNaNDude is now known as NaNDude 2015-06-14T18:02:22Z Denommus joined #lisp 2015-06-14T18:02:24Z pjb: papachan: you've not answered Xach's question. 2015-06-14T18:03:05Z Xach: pjb: I don't need your assistance. If you want to browbeat some newbie, don't use me as an excuse. 2015-06-14T18:03:08Z pjb: papachan: The "it" in " papachan: does it :use the fiveam package, or import run! from it?" refers to the DURAS package! 2015-06-14T18:03:11Z papachan: Xach, pjb i have (:use :cl :fiveam) 2015-06-14T18:03:20Z ehaliewi` joined #lisp 2015-06-14T18:03:41Z papachan: thanks guys dont wat to stress anyone 2015-06-14T18:03:45Z pjb: papachan: you've not shown that you had this in the DURAS package. 2015-06-14T18:03:46Z Xach: papachan: If you load the file you pasted, it will define and run the tests. What do you want to do instead? 2015-06-14T18:04:23Z papachan: pjb, there is nothing there, its a simple start 2015-06-14T18:04:37Z papachan: i just want to understand why i am not able to run the tests 2015-06-14T18:04:41Z pjb: papachan: there's an inconsistency between your picture and your text! 2015-06-14T18:04:48Z papachan: ah? 2015-06-14T18:05:03Z pjb: The picture shows you try in the package DURAS. But you don't show us the use list of that package! 2015-06-14T18:05:10Z papachan: pjb because i am loading duras package instead of duras-test ? 2015-06-14T18:05:38Z pjb: We don't care. Show us your DURAS package, or show us you're (in-package :duras-test) not (in-package :duras). Try to be consistent! 2015-06-14T18:05:55Z papachan: well my basic problem is: 2015-06-14T18:06:02Z pjb: papachan: in any case, (apropos "RUN!") would tell you how to write the RUN! symbol, qualified or not! 2015-06-14T18:06:11Z myztic_ joined #lisp 2015-06-14T18:06:14Z pjb: Did you even try it when I told it to you? 2015-06-14T18:06:27Z papachan: i am not able to load duras-test 2015-06-14T18:06:30Z papachan: dont know why 2015-06-14T18:06:40Z papachan: it always load duras package 2015-06-14T18:06:51Z pjb: Of course, lisp implementations never tell people why they're not able to load a file. 2015-06-14T18:07:23Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T18:07:24Z papachan: http://paste.awesom.eu/raw/papachan/crMQ 2015-06-14T18:07:25Z pjb: Notice: "load a file". 2015-06-14T18:07:58Z pjb: papachan: so it shows you that there is a symbol named RUN! that has been interned in the current package (since you typed it in), and 2015-06-14T18:08:18Z pjb: a different symbol, named RUN! too, but in the IT.BESE.FIVEAM package, that has a function definition (fbound). 2015-06-14T18:08:43Z pjb: You can call it from your current package by writing it qualified as shown. (time (IT.BESE.FIVEAM:RUN! 'duras)) 2015-06-14T18:09:11Z papachan: aaaaa 2015-06-14T18:09:15Z pjb: or: (time (IT.BESE.FIVEAM:RUN! 'duras-test)) 2015-06-14T18:09:19Z papachan: cool 2015-06-14T18:09:42Z papachan: i dont have error 2015-06-14T18:09:47Z pjb: good. 2015-06-14T18:09:50Z papachan: thanks 2015-06-14T18:09:58Z pjb: write more code until you get an error ;-) 2015-06-14T18:10:02Z papachan: sure 2015-06-14T18:10:09Z papachan: sorry for disturb here 2015-06-14T18:10:17Z pjb: no disturbance :-) 2015-06-14T18:10:48Z pjb: Alternatively, since you've used fiveam in duras-test, you can go to this package: (in-package :duras-test) (time (run! 'duras-test)) 2015-06-14T18:10:58Z wheelsucker joined #lisp 2015-06-14T18:13:05Z Kooda quit (Quit: Squee!) 2015-06-14T18:13:32Z Kooda joined #lisp 2015-06-14T18:13:40Z xtan2 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-06-14T18:13:53Z papachan: The name "DURAS-TEST" does not designate any package. 2015-06-14T18:13:59Z papachan: will investigate why 2015-06-14T18:14:37Z pjb: Perhaps you didn't load or evaluate what you pasted/shown us. 2015-06-14T18:15:31Z mishoo joined #lisp 2015-06-14T18:15:35Z grees joined #lisp 2015-06-14T18:17:37Z xtan joined #lisp 2015-06-14T18:18:07Z sdothum quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-06-14T18:21:15Z rvchangue_ joined #lisp 2015-06-14T18:22:37Z clop2 joined #lisp 2015-06-14T18:23:58Z dkcl joined #lisp 2015-06-14T18:24:21Z sdothum joined #lisp 2015-06-14T18:29:40Z przl joined #lisp 2015-06-14T18:30:11Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-06-14T18:30:16Z knobo1 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-06-14T18:31:58Z oleo_ joined #lisp 2015-06-14T18:32:33Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2015-06-14T18:33:28Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-06-14T18:33:54Z oleo_ quit (Changing host) 2015-06-14T18:33:54Z oleo_ joined #lisp 2015-06-14T18:34:28Z oleo_ is now known as oleo 2015-06-14T18:34:56Z ejbs`` quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-06-14T18:34:58Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp 2015-06-14T18:36:47Z f3lp quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-06-14T18:36:52Z skrue quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-06-14T18:37:30Z skrue joined #lisp 2015-06-14T18:37:39Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-06-14T18:38:17Z papachan quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-06-14T18:41:44Z josemanuel quit (Quit: Saliendo) 2015-06-14T18:42:13Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T18:43:57Z KV108 joined #lisp 2015-06-14T18:44:59Z mrSpec joined #lisp 2015-06-14T18:46:27Z Devon joined #lisp 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2015-06-14T19:40:38Z ronh- is now known as ronh 2015-06-14T19:40:47Z jaykru quit (Quit: yawn) 2015-06-14T19:44:44Z zophy joined #lisp 2015-06-14T19:46:13Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-06-14T19:47:57Z ndrei joined #lisp 2015-06-14T19:49:11Z alusion joined #lisp 2015-06-14T19:49:55Z alusion quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T19:49:55Z alusion joined #lisp 2015-06-14T19:49:57Z oleo: http://www.picpaste.com/pics/clmaxima.1434311379.png 2015-06-14T19:50:33Z munksgaard joined #lisp 2015-06-14T19:51:01Z oleo: http://www.picpaste.com/pics/clmaxima2.1434311448.png 2015-06-14T19:51:20Z fourier quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T19:52:10Z oleo: http://www.picpaste.com/pics/clmaxima3.1434311520.png 2015-06-14T19:52:47Z malice quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-06-14T19:53:02Z oleo: http://www.picpaste.com/pics/clmaxima4.1434311572.png 2015-06-14T19:53:16Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-06-14T19:53:34Z jaykru joined #lisp 2015-06-14T19:54:51Z kovrik joined #lisp 2015-06-14T19:55:06Z oleo: http://www.picpaste.com/pics/clmaxima5.1434311698.png 2015-06-14T19:55:13Z oleo: allright 2015-06-14T19:55:15Z oleo: that was it 2015-06-14T19:55:47Z nyef: oleo: Neat, but those last two looked like they could do with some work on rendering the output better. 2015-06-14T19:56:16Z oleo: jep 2015-06-14T19:56:28Z oleo: i don't know, there are some other issues too.... 2015-06-14T19:56:37Z oleo: it's just a start 2015-06-14T19:57:06Z oleo: that control-flow there is mind-bogging..... 2015-06-14T19:57:15Z oleo: i mean in maxima 'continue function..... 2015-06-14T19:57:19Z oleo: heh 2015-06-14T19:58:04Z oleo: it jumps to other routines .....back and forth..... 2015-06-14T19:58:14Z oleo: haha 2015-06-14T20:00:29Z oleo: especially makelist is buggy, it throws 2015-06-14T20:01:02Z ggole quit 2015-06-14T20:01:09Z oleo: oh wait it's not buggy, i had typo in my input, meh :/ 2015-06-14T20:01:12Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-06-14T20:01:55Z yeticry joined #lisp 2015-06-14T20:02:01Z nyef: Oh, hell. A REGION-SET inherits BOUNDING-RECTANGLE, and a STANDARD-REGION-DIFFERENCE inherits from a REGION-SET, but the only case where I'd even USE a STANDARD-REGION-DIFFERENCE is when the base region is +EVERYWHERE+, which doesn't have a bounding rectangle. 2015-06-14T20:02:32Z nyef: CLIM geometry isn't even self-consistent when limited to rectilinear and unbounded regions. 2015-06-14T20:02:58Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-06-14T20:03:16Z oleo: i don't get that stuff anyway nyef, it's way over my head.... 2015-06-14T20:03:41Z oleo: i think i only have a superficial understanding of stuff.... 2015-06-14T20:03:50Z oleo: maybe it'll change, dunno 2015-06-14T20:04:23Z pt1 joined #lisp 2015-06-14T20:04:58Z nyef: In one sense, this is just more reinforcement of the idea that there *HAS* to be a pony in here somewhere. 2015-06-14T20:05:20Z oleo: and there's a violation of the spec in the mcclim source, the interactor class has a slot :incremental-redisplay t, which should be nil by default, dunno if i changed it or someone else 2015-06-14T20:05:56Z oleo: i set it back to nil in my sources now 2015-06-14T20:06:01Z nyef: Oh, there are a ton of spec violations in McCLIM. Almost anything declared by the spec to be a constant almost certainly isn't constant in McCLIM. 2015-06-14T20:06:13Z oleo: oioioi 2015-06-14T20:07:21Z clop2 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-06-14T20:08:03Z nyef: Try it: (constantp '+identity-transformation+). Then try it for +nowhere+, +everywhere+, +foreground-ink+... 2015-06-14T20:08:38Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T20:11:41Z gingerale joined #lisp 2015-06-14T20:11:44Z jaykru quit (Quit: yawn) 2015-06-14T20:18:06Z mfranzwa joined #lisp 2015-06-14T20:18:36Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-06-14T20:19:18Z Walex joined #lisp 2015-06-14T20:20:04Z rpg quit (Quit: rpg) 2015-06-14T20:21:56Z futpib joined #lisp 2015-06-14T20:22:49Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2015-06-14T20:22:51Z oleo: not now nyef, i'm really exhausted! 2015-06-14T20:22:52Z MasterPiece joined #lisp 2015-06-14T20:22:55Z oleo: :) 2015-06-14T20:23:09Z nyef: Heh. 2015-06-14T20:26:13Z BitPuffin|osx quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-06-14T20:26:52Z stevegt quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-06-14T20:26:54Z myztic_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-06-14T20:31:40Z fsvehla quit (Quit: fsvehla) 2015-06-14T20:34:46Z jdm_ left #lisp 2015-06-14T20:39:19Z jason_m joined #lisp 2015-06-14T20:40:24Z myztic joined #lisp 2015-06-14T20:49:07Z beach quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-06-14T20:49:21Z otjura quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-06-14T20:50:09Z psy_ joined #lisp 2015-06-14T20:53:16Z malice joined #lisp 2015-06-14T20:54:24Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-06-14T20:56:30Z digiorgi joined #lisp 2015-06-14T21:00:23Z pt1 joined #lisp 2015-06-14T21:00:24Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T21:02:54Z ASau quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T21:03:17Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-06-14T21:04:05Z drmeister: I have a bit of a problem. 2015-06-14T21:04:34Z drmeister: I'm trying to set up inlining of CONSP, CAR, CDR and it's going into an infinite loop. 2015-06-14T21:04:56Z drmeister: This is what I'm inlining: 2015-06-14T21:04:58Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/kT3ftC81/ 2015-06-14T21:05:09Z cadadar joined #lisp 2015-06-14T21:05:44Z ASau joined #lisp 2015-06-14T21:06:21Z oleo: afaik your're not allowed to redefine stuff... 2015-06-14T21:07:22Z drmeister: Well, it's my own implementation so in principle I can do what I want. Whether it works or not is another issue. 2015-06-14T21:08:01Z drmeister: The problem is that existing code that calls CONSP or CAR tries to call CLEAVIR-PRIMOP:CONSP and that isn't a function. 2015-06-14T21:08:08Z drmeister: Maybe I should make that a function. 2015-06-14T21:09:11Z nyef: Welcome to the world of "interpreter stubs". SBCL has a pile of functions like (defun car (object) (car object)). 2015-06-14T21:10:26Z drmeister: oleo: And I didn't mean to sound rude with that response. I'm bootstrapping and occasionally have to bend the rules. 2015-06-14T21:11:16Z gingerale quit (Quit: Goodnight) 2015-06-14T21:12:19Z nyef: drmeister: So, how does the compiler know what to do with CLEAVIR-PRIMOP:CONSP ? 2015-06-14T21:12:48Z OrangeShark joined #lisp 2015-06-14T21:12:55Z drmeister: There is a lot of machinery that converts it into an AST node and then a HIR node and then MIR and then LLVM-IR. 2015-06-14T21:12:56Z jaykru joined #lisp 2015-06-14T21:13:10Z sheilong quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1) 2015-06-14T21:14:38Z drmeister: Oh boy, I have to define a core:consp and core:car etc that can be called by cleavir-primop:consp etc. 2015-06-14T21:14:51Z drmeister: It has to bottom out somewhere. 2015-06-14T21:16:11Z wilfredh quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2015-06-14T21:16:39Z nyef: Why can you not (defun cleavir-primop:consp (object) (cleavir-primop:consp object)) and have it bottom out by being open-coded? 2015-06-14T21:16:43Z rpg joined #lisp 2015-06-14T21:17:17Z Davidbrcz quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-06-14T21:21:16Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-06-14T21:21:45Z EvW joined #lisp 2015-06-14T21:23:23Z theodcyning joined #lisp 2015-06-14T21:28:16Z digiorgi: Someone have a repo with the emacs configuration file that you use for coding in cl? 2015-06-14T21:28:20Z drmeister: Hmm, 2015-06-14T21:28:59Z drmeister: nyef: That is a good point. That would work. 2015-06-14T21:29:18Z rvchangue_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-06-14T21:30:17Z nyef: drmeister: The "obvious" next step is to skip the whole cleavir-primop:consp thing and have the compiler recognize cl:consp as needing special handling instead. 2015-06-14T21:30:17Z zygentoma joined #lisp 2015-06-14T21:31:37Z malice quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-06-14T21:31:38Z drmeister: That's beach's decision. He would have to add cl:consp as a special operator - correct? 2015-06-14T21:31:52Z nyef: I have no idea. 2015-06-14T21:32:02Z drmeister: No problem. I think so . 2015-06-14T21:32:15Z rvchangue_ joined #lisp 2015-06-14T21:36:20Z myztic quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-06-14T21:37:10Z victoroak quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-06-14T21:46:24Z stevegt joined #lisp 2015-06-14T21:47:27Z knobo1 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-06-14T21:50:37Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T21:50:57Z stevegt quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-06-14T21:51:18Z myztic joined #lisp 2015-06-14T21:52:57Z Petit_Dejeuner_: digiorgi, I don't think I have anything cl specific. I just use SLIME and the defaults. 2015-06-14T21:53:41Z nf7 joined #lisp 2015-06-14T21:53:42Z zophy quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-06-14T21:53:47Z nf7 left #lisp 2015-06-14T21:58:00Z Adlai joined #lisp 2015-06-14T21:59:42Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2015-06-14T22:00:46Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2015-06-14T22:00:58Z digiorgi: Petit_Dejeuner_: no auto-complete? no rainbow delimiters? no smartparents? 2015-06-14T22:01:11Z rvchangue_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-06-14T22:01:20Z digiorgi: Petit_Dejeuner_: any slime contribs? 2015-06-14T22:01:50Z Petit_Dejeuner_: I use ctrl+alt+i for auto-complete. I don't think rainbow delimters help. I don't think I know what smart parens are. 2015-06-14T22:02:09Z Petit_Dejeuner_: ...I don't get much done either. 2015-06-14T22:02:55Z stevegt joined #lisp 2015-06-14T22:03:07Z kobain joined #lisp 2015-06-14T22:05:05Z digiorgi: i am curious about org-mode and common lisp 2015-06-14T22:05:15Z mrSpec quit (Quit: mrSpec) 2015-06-14T22:06:27Z `dwr joined #lisp 2015-06-14T22:07:26Z askatasuna left #lisp 2015-06-14T22:07:48Z rvchangue_ joined #lisp 2015-06-14T22:08:42Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-06-14T22:08:52Z fsvehla joined #lisp 2015-06-14T22:10:13Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-06-14T22:11:40Z ehu quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-06-14T22:12:51Z grouzen joined #lisp 2015-06-14T22:13:41Z MoALTz_ joined #lisp 2015-06-14T22:15:15Z grees quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T22:17:24Z MoALTz quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-06-14T22:17:30Z Shinmera: digiorgi: https://github.com/Shinmera/.emacs 2015-06-14T22:17:34Z MasterPiece quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-06-14T22:19:02Z mfranzwa quit (Quit: mfranzwa) 2015-06-14T22:19:26Z mfranzwa joined #lisp 2015-06-14T22:21:24Z khisanth__ joined #lisp 2015-06-14T22:23:21Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。) 2015-06-14T22:24:16Z mfranzwa quit (Client Quit) 2015-06-14T22:24:19Z khisanth_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-06-14T22:24:22Z theodcyning: So is it futile to try to develop lisp on vim? I've found that vim + clisp works well for me, but everyone else seems to really like slime 2015-06-14T22:25:35Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2015-06-14T22:25:49Z Quadrescence: theodcyning, no it is not futile 2015-06-14T22:25:56Z ehu joined #lisp 2015-06-14T22:26:05Z Quadrescence: emacs + slime just happens to be popular, and many lisp folks use vim 2015-06-14T22:27:27Z digiorgi: theodcyning: limv? 2015-06-14T22:27:32Z digiorgi: slimv? 2015-06-14T22:27:58Z jaykru quit (Quit: nyawn) 2015-06-14T22:28:05Z rpg: theodcyning: The devil's advocate in me says "you will end up working way too hard to build your own vim-based lisp IDE. Suck it up and switch to emacs." 2015-06-14T22:28:34Z rpg: There's no way you can get as much benefit from sticking to vim as living off the efforts of people who built SLIME. 2015-06-14T22:29:07Z Quadrescence: rpg, I dunno, a lot of people feel they are a lot more efficient at editing in vim, so... 2015-06-14T22:29:38Z rpg: Quadrescence: sure, but do you want to build presentations, a debugger interface, yadda, yadda, yadda in vim? 2015-06-14T22:30:00Z Quadrescence: Does everyone need those or do only the old lisp machine CLIM fogeys? :) 2015-06-14T22:30:04Z rpg: I am not trying to say what you should or shouldn't do, but going off your own way like that cuts you off from a lot of good stuff the community has built. 2015-06-14T22:30:40Z rpg: by comparison: I used to write Java in Emacs. I have given up and use Eclipse. I mostly hate Eclipse, but it's still hugely more productive for Java. 2015-06-14T22:30:40Z k-stz quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T22:31:33Z theodcyning: I have only recently become quick in vim, so I'm somewhat loathe to switch over to emacs 2015-06-14T22:31:42Z rpg: Darth is right: just give in to the Dark Side. 2015-06-14T22:32:00Z rpg: theodcyning: if you've only recently become quick, you have a lot less to lose than you will five years from now. 2015-06-14T22:32:46Z rpg: Or maybe try one of the IDEs like Allegro or CCL. 2015-06-14T22:32:59Z theodcyning: rpg: Good point. I do like editing in vim though. 2015-06-14T22:33:19Z theodcyning: I think I'd prefer something more keyboard based than Allegro or CCL 2015-06-14T22:33:35Z rpg: I feel for you. I love emacs, but trying to write Java with it is like pushing my head through sand. 2015-06-14T22:34:06Z digiorgi: theodcyning: is only idiosyncrasy. There nothing like right thing. Try vim and emacs, at be where you feel more productive, but try both, and after that make the choice. 2015-06-14T22:34:09Z rpg: Trying to figure out how to create my own build system in emacs was tilting at windmills, so I gave in... 2015-06-14T22:34:16Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T22:34:19Z rpg: digiorgi: I absolutely disagree. 2015-06-14T22:34:35Z rpg: There's person decades in SLIME for you to benefit from. 2015-06-14T22:34:48Z rpg: You will *never get that* in VIM. 2015-06-14T22:35:01Z Quadrescence: rpg, there were person decades in COBOL too~ 2015-06-14T22:35:18Z theodcyning: Besides, SLIMV and LIMP have been abandoned since around 2010 2015-06-14T22:35:45Z rpg: Yeah, if you want to create your own tools, go for it. But if you want to *use* tools, instead of building them, use the good tools. 2015-06-14T22:36:15Z Quadrescence: rpg, I would say that is a good way to say it. 2015-06-14T22:36:55Z rpg: Like I said, I tried to fight the good fight, using emacs where it was not well supported, but it just cost a lot of hours in unproductive slaving. Do what you like, but consider my sad lesson... 2015-06-14T22:37:07Z rpg: Good luck! TTYL.... 2015-06-14T22:40:01Z digiorgi quit (Quit: Ex-Chat) 2015-06-14T22:41:11Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-06-14T22:45:00Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-06-14T22:46:34Z jason_m quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-06-14T22:48:07Z srcerer_ joined #lisp 2015-06-14T22:49:15Z srcerer quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-06-14T22:50:17Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-06-14T22:51:52Z drmeister: Argh, I'm not working with the compiler I thought I was working with. 2015-06-14T22:52:00Z drmeister: I only have two, you would think I could keep them straight. 2015-06-14T22:57:49Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-06-14T23:00:00Z copycat quit (Quit: copycat) 2015-06-14T23:00:41Z manuel_ joined #lisp 2015-06-14T23:00:57Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-06-14T23:03:37Z rpg quit (Quit: rpg) 2015-06-14T23:04:29Z jaykru joined #lisp 2015-06-14T23:11:36Z Kooda quit (Quit: Squee!) 2015-06-14T23:13:54Z khisanth__ is now known as Khisanth 2015-06-14T23:14:09Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-06-14T23:14:36Z innertracks quit (Client Quit) 2015-06-14T23:18:42Z drmeister: Finally, I have CL:CONSP, CL:CAR, CL:CDR, CL:RPLACA, CL:RPLACD inlining 2015-06-14T23:18:49Z fsvehla quit (Quit: fsvehla) 2015-06-14T23:20:35Z drmeister: I had to set up all of these stub versions so that existing code can continue to call them and compile them with the right compiler and then replace them with inlining versions. (sigh) 2015-06-14T23:21:35Z drmeister: It's like trying to change your shoes without sitting down or touching the ground with your socks. 2015-06-14T23:21:54Z drmeister: A lot of hopping was involved. 2015-06-14T23:28:09Z theos quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-06-14T23:28:53Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T23:31:37Z jtz quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T23:32:02Z jtz joined #lisp 2015-06-14T23:35:36Z grouzen quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-06-14T23:36:14Z jaykru_ joined #lisp 2015-06-14T23:40:11Z failproofshark quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T23:41:54Z stevegt quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-06-14T23:44:39Z theos joined #lisp 2015-06-14T23:44:41Z `dwr quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-06-14T23:44:49Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-06-14T23:48:07Z nyef: In NQ-CLIM, I find that there are at least a couple of files that I need that are more support code than attached to any given part of the system, but I'm at a bit of a loss for where to put them. 2015-06-14T23:48:55Z jaykru quit (Quit: nyawn) 2015-06-14T23:49:02Z Jesin joined #lisp 2015-06-14T23:50:44Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2015-06-14T23:50:47Z gendl joined #lisp 2015-06-14T23:51:14Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/) 2015-06-14T23:53:03Z sdothum quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-06-14T23:56:37Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)