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2015-05-07T00:13:32Z drmeister: jasom: Methyl ethyl ketone?  Nope - too reactive.
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2015-05-07T00:48:01Z orthecreedence: hi everybody. i'm on slackware 64 14.1 and when trying to run the latest clozure cl (1.10) i get "remap spjump: Operation not permitted"
2015-05-07T00:48:29Z orthecreedence: when i copy over an old version from a previous slack install (14.0) it doesn't work either
2015-05-07T00:48:44Z orthecreedence: (i'm running the lx86cl64 file)
2015-05-07T00:48:48Z katco: in common lisp, i'm outputting a string and i get a "^" character after every word... any idea why?
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2015-05-07T00:49:11Z orthecreedence: any ideas? i think it may have something to do with the fact that i had the multilib installed in the old OS and i've avoided it in the new one
2015-05-07T00:49:38Z orthecreedence: katco: where are you getting the string? any chance there are strange characters being put in there?
2015-05-07T00:49:52Z orthecreedence: also, what implementation are you using?
2015-05-07T00:50:03Z orthecreedence: and what print function?
2015-05-07T00:50:08Z katco: orthecreedence: i'm reading it in off a socket (i'm typing on the other side), sbcl
2015-05-07T00:50:17Z katco: orthecreedence: (format t ("~a" foo))
2015-05-07T00:50:42Z katco: orthecreedence: but strangely, this doesn't always happen. it's just in one function
2015-05-07T00:50:53Z katco: orthecreedence: i was hoping someone would go "oh that's a FOO directive" or something
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2015-05-07T00:51:24Z orthecreedence: weird. no, nothing immediately jumps out at me. how are you encoding your strings to binary?
2015-05-07T00:51:40Z katco: orthecreedence: i'm not... telnet protocol
2015-05-07T00:51:48Z orthecreedence: oh got it
2015-05-07T00:52:02Z katco: hm. i'm probably doing something stupid.
2015-05-07T00:52:09Z orthecreedence: what i would do is take the output and instead of reading it as a string, read it as raw bytes and see what's coming through
2015-05-07T00:52:18Z katco: good idea, thanks
2015-05-07T00:52:24Z orthecreedence: np
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2015-05-07T00:52:31Z katco: weird that it only happens in this one function though
2015-05-07T00:52:35Z katco: the other strings coming through seem fine
2015-05-07T00:52:52Z orthecreedence: that is fishy
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2015-05-07T00:54:26Z katco: oh god.
2015-05-07T00:54:32Z katco: i think i know what happened
2015-05-07T00:54:57Z katco: elsewhere: (format nil "~{~a^ ~}" foo)... now what am i doing wrong :)
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2015-05-07T00:57:09Z orthecreedence: :)
2015-05-07T00:57:20Z katco is learning CL by fire :)
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2015-05-07T01:04:09Z nyef: The number of times I've had to learn some system by being dumped in at the deep end...
2015-05-07T01:04:24Z nyef: And, yes, I realize that it's a completely different element. (-:
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2015-05-07T01:10:48Z pjb: Happily, Bjarne Stroustrup has only two kidneys, AFAWK.
2015-05-07T01:11:34Z Zhivago: Why is that a happily occurrence?
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2015-05-07T01:22:45Z m_zr0: in case you need one of them for your own, you know he has one to spare.
2015-05-07T01:23:23Z m_zr0: but if he had more, well, that might cause him some health issues, and you couldn't trust
2015-05-07T01:23:56Z eudoxia: i'd never trust anyone with three kidneys. what'd ya need one more for? greedy fucks
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2015-05-07T01:25:26Z eudoxia: Zhivago: drmeister up there said stroustrup would rather sell his kidneys than break backwards compat in C++
2015-05-07T01:26:01Z m_zr0: haha i was kind of wondering about that, too.  pop in and see the most random statement ever
2015-05-07T01:26:43Z scoofy: then maybe correct sentence would have been: "Bjarne Stroustrup still has two kidneys."
2015-05-07T01:27:24Z eudoxia: <smugweenie>not that he uses them for good or anything!!1!</smugweenie>
2015-05-07T01:28:33Z m_zr0: hahah
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2015-05-07T01:29:31Z Zhivago: Just for taking the piss.
2015-05-07T01:30:06Z Zhivago: Although I'm not sure it's really true, re: backward compatibility.
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2015-05-07T01:31:58Z Zhivago: They're removing 'export', for example.
2015-05-07T01:32:57Z pjb: katco: read clhs format.
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2015-05-07T01:34:26Z pjb: scoofy: no, the hope is that we only have to press him twice to be able to convert C++ into lisp.
2015-05-07T01:34:40Z akkad: clhs.org
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2015-05-07T02:34:12Z loke: Zhivago: Removing export? Why?
2015-05-07T02:34:39Z Zhivago: Dunno. Maybe they were annoyed by people saying that they never broke backward compatibility?
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2015-05-07T02:39:43Z freehck: Hello people.
2015-05-07T02:40:14Z freehck: I'm trying to use GSLL and found an example for polynomial division:
2015-05-07T02:40:29Z freehck: (let* ((xa #m(0.16d0 0.97d0 1.94d0 2.74d0 3.58d0 3.73d0 4.70d0))
2015-05-07T02:40:29Z freehck: 	(ya #m(0.73d0 1.11d0 1.49d0 1.84d0 2.30d0 2.41d0 3.07d0))
2015-05-07T02:40:29Z freehck: 	(dd (divided-difference xa ya)))
2015-05-07T02:40:29Z freehck:        dd)
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2015-05-07T02:40:58Z freehck: 1) I cannot understand what #m construction does. Could anybody explain?
2015-05-07T02:41:50Z freehck: 2) This example is interrupted with this error: There is no applicable method for the generic function
2015-05-07T02:41:50Z freehck:   #<STANDARD-GENERIC-FUNCTION GRID:FOREIGN-POINTER (1)>
2015-05-07T02:42:20Z freehck: How too look out where this symbol has been defined?
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2015-05-07T02:42:58Z Zhivago: I'd look for a GRID package.
2015-05-07T02:42:59Z freehck: I mean, I hadn't found the definition in gsll git repo even using grep.
2015-05-07T02:43:30Z freehck: but I dont have it in my quicklisp directory.
2015-05-07T02:43:32Z Zhivago: As for #m, look for a reader macro.
2015-05-07T02:44:39Z freehck: Oh, I found it in one of subdirectories. Thank you.
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2015-05-07T02:47:52Z freehck: Zhivago: I tried to type this macro in in my repl, but it was evaluated into a vector. Could it be a wrong behaviour?
2015-05-07T02:48:05Z Zhivago: That sounds plausible.
2015-05-07T02:48:09Z freehck: Maybe it should be evaluated in something else?
2015-05-07T02:48:24Z Zhivago: It's probably a matrix represented as a vector.
2015-05-07T02:48:34Z freehck: How to found a definition?
2015-05-07T02:48:55Z pjb: more likely, a foreign vector to be sent to the GPU.
2015-05-07T02:48:56Z freehck: can I just grep quicklisp directory for string '#m'?
2015-05-07T02:49:00Z Zhivago: But look for set-dispatch-macro-character.
2015-05-07T02:49:05Z pjb: freehck: no.
2015-05-07T02:49:14Z pjb: freehck: it is probably defined in gsll.
2015-05-07T02:49:33Z Zhivago: You should be able to see where #m is set up as a dispatch macro on #\m.
2015-05-07T02:50:14Z pjb: or #\M reader macros and dispatching reader macros are not case sensitive.
2015-05-07T02:51:19Z pjb: (at least, the standard dispatching reader macros.  One could write a dispatching reader macro that would have the subchar case sensitive).
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2015-05-07T02:52:22Z freehck: Found it in grid system in package antik. )
2015-05-07T02:57:49Z freehck: Hm... I still cannot understand how load this reader macro to use in my repl. :(
2015-05-07T02:57:59Z freehck: *how to
2015-05-07T02:58:07Z Zhivago: If it expanded, you alreaded loaded it.
2015-05-07T02:58:15Z freehck: It does not.
2015-05-07T02:58:52Z freehck: Maybe it'd be better to restart repl...
2015-05-07T03:00:02Z freehck: Yes, it expanted right after load.
2015-05-07T03:00:11Z freehck: CLF> #m(1 1)
2015-05-07T03:00:11Z freehck: #(1.0 1.0)
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2015-05-07T03:11:33Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2015-05-07T03:11:33Z nyef: Hello beach.
2015-05-07T03:11:33Z minion: beach, memo from jasom: you have some tests for ANSI conformance; are they runnable without asdf?
2015-05-07T03:12:04Z beach: jasom: Yes.  I started adding ASDF definitions, but I haven't removed any existing code.
2015-05-07T03:12:06Z nyef: Heh. 23:11. Aside from being 11:11 PM, it's also a chunk of the fib sequence, backwards.
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2015-05-07T03:12:30Z nyef: Well, semi-backwards.
2015-05-07T03:13:54Z beach: nyef: When I look at my (digital) alarm clock, I often recognize digit sequences like 747, 3.14, etc.
2015-05-07T03:14:17Z nyef: Yeah, same effect as 11:11, but 11:11 is more prevalent.
2015-05-07T03:14:36Z loke: Or 22:22
2015-05-07T03:15:48Z loke: with a proper clock, 07:47 or 03:14 isn't that exiting
2015-05-07T03:16:14Z nyef: 12:34 is workable, though.
2015-05-07T03:16:46Z freehck: Oh, people. Actually I look for a method to divide one polynom by another. And as the example shown in GSLL does not work, could somebody give me an advice?
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2015-05-07T03:20:42Z freehck: Hm... It seems that all functions from any system, that should work with #m() reader macro, actually doesn't work in my repl...
2015-05-07T03:20:48Z freehck: wtf?
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2015-05-07T03:28:49Z pjb: freehck: do you know packages?
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2015-05-07T03:33:48Z freehck: pjb: yes: this macro is defined in grid package (atnik project).
2015-05-07T03:34:31Z freehck: hm... no, "grid" is the system.
2015-05-07T03:34:40Z freehck: antik is a package.
2015-05-07T03:35:05Z freehck: oh, I'm muddled. :(
2015-05-07T03:36:07Z pjb: what function do you want to use?
2015-05-07T03:36:59Z freehck: i want to use a function `divided-difference' from GSLL system.
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2015-05-07T03:37:50Z pjb: Functions are named by symbols.  Symbols are interned or imported into packages.
2015-05-07T03:38:11Z pjb: Symbols are named by strings.
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2015-05-07T03:38:29Z pjb: What is the package where a symbol named "DIVIDED-DIFFERENCE" is interned?
2015-05-07T03:39:28Z pjb: freehck: you can find eg. with (apropos "DIVIDED-DIFFERENCE")
2015-05-07T03:40:06Z freehck: GSLL:DIVIDED-DIFFERENCE (fbound)
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2015-05-07T03:40:25Z pjb: So this symbol is interned in the gsll package, and it is exported (a single colon).
2015-05-07T03:41:21Z freehck: And if it's not exported, 2 colons are used?
2015-05-07T03:41:21Z pjb: You can have access to it, from a package that would USE the gsll package, or by importing that symbol, or by qualifying it, ie. by writing gsll:divided-difference instead of merely divided-difference.
2015-05-07T03:41:42Z pjb: yes, if it's not exported, two colons are needed.
2015-05-07T03:42:25Z freehck: yes, I tried to use divided-difference from my own package that USEd gsll.
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2015-05-07T03:52:07Z freehck: I got the problem: I needed to evaluate (setf grid:*default-grid-type* 'grid:foreign-array).
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2015-05-07T04:07:41Z Zhivago: freehck: Well done. :)
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2015-05-07T05:09:47Z loke: Will there be an ILS this year?
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2015-05-07T05:25:57Z loke: *** Eval error ***  Cannot open load file: No such file or directory, gorgon
2015-05-07T05:26:16Z loke: Ooops
2015-05-07T05:26:18Z loke: wrong channel
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2015-05-07T05:33:16Z beach: What is ILS?
2015-05-07T05:33:42Z beach: Instrument Landing System?
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2015-05-07T05:34:25Z beach: minion: What does ILS stand for?
2015-05-07T05:34:26Z minion: Inestimability Lissoflagellate Soldado
2015-05-07T05:35:33Z mbuf: International Lisp Conference?
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2015-05-07T05:37:51Z drmeister: Hi beach
2015-05-07T05:37:57Z drmeister: Hey everyone
2015-05-07T05:38:12Z beach: mbuf: Sonference?
2015-05-07T05:38:36Z mbuf: beach, sorry, Sonference?
2015-05-07T05:38:51Z beach: mbuf: loke said "ILS".
2015-05-07T05:39:09Z mbuf: beach, ohh! okay
2015-05-07T05:39:24Z mbuf: beach, I thought that was a typo
2015-05-07T05:39:49Z loke: Isn't it intranational lisp sumposium?
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2015-05-07T05:40:07Z loke: Oh, ILC
2015-05-07T05:40:37Z beach: drmeister: When do you leave for California?
2015-05-07T05:42:22Z drmeister: Tomorrow morning.
2015-05-07T05:42:57Z drmeister: Someone in #llvm told me that the Windows x86 calling convention in LLVM supports both varargs and TCO - I need to verify this.
2015-05-07T05:43:53Z Bike: i'd be kind of surprised if it didn't? those are pretty basic things.
2015-05-07T05:45:27Z beach: loke: Usually, ILC is every two years.  The previous one was August 2014 in Montreal.
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2015-05-07T05:49:03Z loke: beach: Thanks
2015-05-07T05:49:11Z loke: I wish I could have joined ELS
2015-05-07T05:49:19Z loke: I will go next year
2015-05-07T05:49:34Z loke: Has the locaition been decided yet?
2015-05-07T05:50:14Z loke: I might skip next year's ILC though, since it takes me 25 hours or so to get to .ca
2015-05-07T05:50:39Z loke: 23 hours to montreal with 1 stop
2015-05-07T05:51:16Z loke: Oh wait. Then I have to take a US airline
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2015-05-07T05:52:49Z beach: Kraków
2015-05-07T05:53:09Z beach: for ELS.
2015-05-07T05:53:58Z beach: loke: What makes you think the next ILC is in California?
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2015-05-07T05:54:28Z loke: beach: God I hope not. Then I will definitely not attend.
2015-05-07T05:54:41Z loke: What makes you think I want it to be in the US?
2015-05-07T05:54:44Z H4ns: What's wrong with California?
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2015-05-07T05:55:01Z Bike: traffic?
2015-05-07T05:55:04Z loke: H4ns: It's in the US. Meaning I have to go to a US airport.
2015-05-07T05:55:17Z H4ns: loke: and you hate that?  uh.
2015-05-07T05:55:21Z loke: If I wanted to be treated like a criminal I'd just rob a bank.
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2015-05-07T06:04:00Z H4ns: Last time I went to Thailand, the border procedure was just like in the US
2015-05-07T06:04:16Z H4ns: Not that this'd be particularly on-topic :)
2015-05-07T06:04:35Z Bike: thailand is presently under military rule, so that hardly says anything good about the US :p
2015-05-07T06:04:51Z H4ns: Bike: when I went there, it was a flourishing democracy
2015-05-07T06:05:14Z Zhivago: Did they steal your shampoo?
2015-05-07T06:05:15Z H4ns: oh, and yes, japan, just recently.  just like in the us
2015-05-07T06:05:28Z Bike: and they had a TSA, and what happened? junta. be afraid!
2015-05-07T06:05:47Z H4ns: Zhivago: i don't take shampoo to the airport and i am confused if i am not forced to get out of my shoes :)
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2015-05-07T06:07:55Z Zhivago: Hmm, you mustn't travel much. I only have to take my shoes off when traveling to or from the US.
2015-05-07T06:08:09Z Zhivago: Ah. You may have been confused in Japan, etc -- were you traveling to the US? :)
2015-05-07T06:08:31Z H4ns: i am frequently traveling to the us, thus i got used to the shoe thing.
2015-05-07T06:08:49Z Zhivago: Yeah. Then they apply the US procedure.
2015-05-07T06:09:01Z Zhivago: If you were traveling from Japan to a civilized country, it wouldn't have applied.
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2015-05-07T06:14:57Z jackdaniel: does anyone has talk about ECL by Joanjo from eclm2008? filename is eclm2008.pdf, (dead) link is http://ecls.wiki.sourceforge.net/space/showimage/eclm2008.pdf
2015-05-07T06:15:00Z jackdaniel: ? ↑
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2015-05-07T06:22:11Z pillton: jackdaniel: You can try contacting him via email. I always found him civil and approachable.
2015-05-07T06:22:34Z brucem: H4ns, Bike, loke: I live in Thailand. Nothing wrong with the military rule here.
2015-05-07T06:23:06Z jackdaniel: pillton: yes, that's a backplan, tought someone has it on disk, or I'm not aware of some mirror
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2015-05-07T06:26:09Z pillton wonders if the person with the nick, someone, actually enjoys being referenced accidentally.
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2015-05-07T06:27:41Z jackdaniel: oh, that's funny indeed, didn't know there's such a nick
2015-05-07T06:29:03Z jackdaniel: I remember an accidential joke: "<xxx> Nobody is perfect...\n<nobody> thx :)"
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2015-05-07T06:58:58Z jackdaniel: minion: memo for beach: are you going to submit http://metamodular.com/environments.pdf to https://common-lisp.net/project/cdr/ ?
2015-05-07T06:58:59Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell beach when he/she/it next speaks.
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2015-05-07T07:12:25Z loke: brucem: Well, I live in Singapore and the procedure here is quite wonderful. When arriving I don't have to interact with a single living person.
2015-05-07T07:13:08Z loke: When departing there is the security check, but it's over in a matter of seconds. The most annoying part of that is the need to take my laptop(s) out of my bag.
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2015-05-07T07:14:44Z Shinmera had his best experience at the Luxembourg airport. Large, not many people around, friendly personell, easy to find things and quick to board.
2015-05-07T07:15:00Z Shinmera: *staff
2015-05-07T07:15:41Z loke: Sounds nice
2015-05-07T07:15:45Z loke: I'd like to visit lx
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2015-05-07T07:17:50Z loke: I like how the passport check is completely automated here so you don't have to interact with humans. :-)
2015-05-07T07:17:54Z loke hates people
2015-05-07T07:18:13Z H4ns: loke: tell you what: the US border has that, too.
2015-05-07T07:19:27Z protist: Denommus: I just noticed you are mentioned in http://www.wtfpl.net/faq/
2015-05-07T07:19:32Z protist: Denommus: it says you are not right
2015-05-07T07:19:39Z protist: Denommus: I have no idea what it is getting at lol
2015-05-07T07:19:43Z loke: I'm sure they do, but unless the US airports/airlines has become significantly better since last time I was there (in 2000) I don't want to go again.
2015-05-07T07:21:18Z protist: Xach: if someone uses quicklisp to use my project, will it show up on my github stats for the project?...if so in what way
2015-05-07T07:21:31Z loke: protist: no
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2015-05-07T07:22:00Z protist: loke: not in clone number or any other way?
2015-05-07T07:22:21Z loke: protist: No. It's cloned once and serves from QL
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2015-05-07T07:23:20Z protist: loke: if I push a change to my project...will quicklisp pick up on it?
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2015-05-07T07:23:44Z loke: protist: Yes. On next update
2015-05-07T07:23:47Z loke: usually next month
2015-05-07T07:24:03Z protist: loke: ah sad...so people go without the changes for a while
2015-05-07T07:24:09Z loke: protist: Yes
2015-05-07T07:24:15Z Shinmera: That is for the best.
2015-05-07T07:24:16Z protist: loke: that makes my docs slightly mismatch the functionality they are running with right now
2015-05-07T07:24:38Z loke: protist: Make the docs part of the package
2015-05-07T07:24:50Z loke: Or have multiple versions of the docs
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2015-05-07T07:24:55Z protist: loke: ah, they are
2015-05-07T07:25:05Z protist: loke: makes sense now
2015-05-07T07:25:16Z protist: loke: so they have to go to github to get the newest version
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2015-05-07T07:25:20Z loke: protist: Which package is this.
2015-05-07T07:25:25Z protist: loke: cl-durian
2015-05-07T07:25:35Z loke: ah
2015-05-07T07:25:41Z loke: Your first QL package?
2015-05-07T07:25:44Z protist: loke: I upgraded it to handle some cases xach pointed out more gracefully
2015-05-07T07:25:48Z protist: loke: yes sir :)
2015-05-07T07:25:49Z loke has 4, I think.
2015-05-07T07:25:58Z protist: loke: I'm playing with making another
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2015-05-07T07:26:11Z protist: loke: keeping this project secret for now, so no one will beat me to it ;)
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2015-05-07T07:26:52Z protist: Shinmera: makes sense now
2015-05-07T07:26:57Z pillton: protist: Beware of Bike. He beat me with my last one.
2015-05-07T07:27:05Z protist: pillton: lol
2015-05-07T07:27:12Z protist: pillton: did you blab before you were done?
2015-05-07T07:27:21Z protist: pillton: I may have :/...trying to be more careful now ;)
2015-05-07T07:27:21Z pillton: No.
2015-05-07T07:27:33Z protist: pillton: ah he was clairovoyant
2015-05-07T07:27:41Z pillton: protist: Bike finished before I started. :)
2015-05-07T07:27:48Z protist: pillton: hahaha
2015-05-07T07:27:55Z protist: pillton: then he should beware of you ;)
2015-05-07T07:28:44Z protist: pillton: in my new project I am attempting to create it in a way that any offshoots should be able to be incorporated
2015-05-07T07:28:54Z protist: pillton: but it is a pretty general thing...so the interface is key
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2015-05-07T07:29:23Z pillton: You should read the opening chapter of the AMOP book about "being general."
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2015-05-07T07:29:46Z protist: pillton: does it take of FORTH mentality of "don't" hahaha
2015-05-07T07:29:53Z protist: pillton: forgot the `?' somewhere in there
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2015-05-07T07:32:08Z pillton: No, it makes a nice argument about providing a means for users to extend, just not all conceivable extensions.
2015-05-07T07:32:18Z protist: pillton: ah
2015-05-07T07:32:48Z protist: pillton: I have one package that uses others...few general functions are user-facing....keywords to dispatch out
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2015-05-07T07:32:56Z pillton: Design is about reuse, but it is also about minimising connections to other "components".
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2015-05-07T07:33:38Z protist: pillton: I will read the first chapter...torrenting it for later :)
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2015-05-07T07:33:45Z protist: pillton: may read the whole thing
2015-05-07T07:33:55Z protist: pillton: CLOS has destroyed my predjudice against all clos
2015-05-07T07:34:02Z protist: pillton: against all OOP*
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2015-05-07T07:34:25Z protist: pillton: still hate some types...but don't hate CLOS
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2015-05-07T07:35:02Z pillton: You can take more away from AMOP then just CLOS.
2015-05-07T07:35:17Z pillton: The design pattern is very useful for your own languages.
2015-05-07T07:35:30Z pillton: I've used it 4 times now.
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2015-05-07T07:36:22Z protist: pillton: nice :)
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2015-05-07T07:37:19Z mbuf: are there any examples of websites built with ningle or clack or caveman?
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2015-05-07T07:47:52Z Shinmera: Quickdocs is, iirc
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2015-05-07T08:07:14Z freehck: People, I used a lot of defun's inside my function. How to suppress warnings about redefinition every time I evaluate this function?
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2015-05-07T08:07:39Z Shinmera: Don't use defun inside of a function to begin with.
2015-05-07T08:07:57Z loke: freehck: For local functions, use FLET or LABELS
2015-05-07T08:09:07Z freehck: loke: thank you.
2015-05-07T08:09:08Z protist: freehck: former Schemer?
2015-05-07T08:09:16Z protist: freehck: yeah flet and labels are your friends
2015-05-07T08:09:19Z freehck: protist: yes.
2015-05-07T08:09:34Z protist: freehck: labels if you want to use a labels function in another labels function
2015-05-07T08:09:38Z protist: freehck: flet otherwise
2015-05-07T08:10:00Z myrk2: Is there a link or better keywords for the amop being general thing?
2015-05-07T08:10:11Z protist: freehck: (defun add (a b) (flet ((plus (x y) (+ x y))) (plus a b)))
2015-05-07T08:10:30Z protist: alright...time to work out
2015-05-07T08:10:33Z protist: cya #lisp
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2015-05-07T08:54:47Z axion: how do i use an output stream as input when i'm done writing to it?
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2015-05-07T08:56:17Z jdz: axion: did you specify :direction :io?
2015-05-07T08:56:31Z axion: i'm using flexi-streams. how do i do that?
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2015-05-07T08:57:35Z H4ns: axion: if in doubt, create an input stream after you're done creating the buffer
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2015-05-07T08:58:48Z axion: i'm really not sure how to create a non-file-stream in lisp other than flexi-streams:make-in-memory-input/output-stream
2015-05-07T08:59:26Z H4ns: axion: you don't need more than that.
2015-05-07T08:59:58Z H4ns: axion: when you're done writing to the in-memory-output-stream, grab the buffer and create an in-memory-input stream on it
2015-05-07T09:00:45Z axion: that expects a vector...not sure what to pass to it
2015-05-07T09:01:17Z jdz: get-output-stream-sequence?
2015-05-07T09:01:54Z axion: ah thank you
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2015-05-07T11:47:49Z freehck: To be more accurate: is the difference between `labels' and `flet' the same that is between `let' and `let*'?
2015-05-07T11:48:38Z freehck: I mean, if I use `labels', the next defined local function will know about the previously defined one. Right?
2015-05-07T11:48:51Z Shinmera: It's not the same
2015-05-07T11:49:00Z Shinmera: Any labels function will know about all other labels functions including itself.
2015-05-07T11:49:26Z freehck: So it could be defined recursively?
2015-05-07T11:49:31Z Shinmera: No?
2015-05-07T11:49:48Z freehck: Okay, I got.
2015-05-07T11:50:01Z freehck: But is there something like flet*?
2015-05-07T11:50:07Z Shinmera: No.
2015-05-07T11:50:13Z freehck: Thanks.
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2015-05-07T12:23:24Z knobo: Would a cl-ppcre to cl-irregsexp converter be a good idea? (Since it looks like cl-irregsexp is faster)
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2015-05-07T12:31:14Z jackdaniel: freehck: but it would be trivial to write a macro implementing flet*, if you really need it
2015-05-07T12:31:37Z jackdaniel: that'd be just nested flet calling
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2015-05-07T12:51:02Z mood: I'm having some issues with cl-launch not finding its own cl-launch/dispatch system. Just quickloading cl-launch/dispatch from a REPL does work
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2015-05-07T13:15:55Z kami: Hello #lisp
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2015-05-07T13:24:52Z scoofy: hello
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2015-05-07T13:36:24Z mood: Fare: I'm having some problems with the system cl-launch/dispatch not being found when using cl-launch
2015-05-07T13:36:34Z mood: I can load it perfectly fine from the REPL
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2015-05-07T13:39:59Z mood: I take that last part back, I can't load it from the REPL, apparently
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2015-05-07T13:45:14Z mood: I seem to have fixed my problem. I first had to copy dispatch.lisp to somewhere ASDF could find it, and not use the --source-registry option
2015-05-07T13:45:49Z oGMo: hmm, (setf (ldb ..) ..) seems to cons a lot in sbcl
2015-05-07T13:46:05Z oGMo: i should probably upgrade though
2015-05-07T13:46:31Z H4ns: oGMo: that certainly depends on the argument types and type declarations.
2015-05-07T13:46:57Z H4ns: oGMo: if you're properly declaring everything as fixnums, (setf (ldb ...) ...) will not cons at all.
2015-05-07T13:47:04Z oGMo: hrm
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2015-05-07T13:47:25Z oGMo: oh, it's specifically fixnums? that seems.. limiting
2015-05-07T13:48:13Z H4ns: not sure what you're expecting.
2015-05-07T13:49:02Z oGMo: e.g., (unsigned-byte x) where x is a common 2**n
2015-05-07T13:49:27Z oGMo: i'm just rewriting this to use logior and ash, which seems to not cons
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2015-05-07T13:50:34Z Fare: mood: did ypu install it properly?
2015-05-07T13:50:46Z Fare: how did you install it?
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2015-05-07T13:50:55Z mood: Fare: I ran 'make install' in the source directory
2015-05-07T13:51:08Z Shinmera: For a system's dependencies through :depends-on, how does ASDF determine the operation necessary to fulfil that dependency? Is there a way to specify that I depend on a specific operation being fulfilled on the system, rather than what seems to be the default (load-op)?
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2015-05-07T13:52:05Z Fare: did you have write access to /usr/local ?
2015-05-07T13:52:33Z Fare: Shinmera: yes and no
2015-05-07T13:52:39Z mood: Fare: Yes, 'sudo make install'. It worked just fine, as long as I didn't touch the -DE stuff
2015-05-07T13:52:47Z Fare: Shinmera: if your top-level command is load-op, it will load-op
2015-05-07T13:53:07Z Shinmera: Fare: So it will inherit the operation of the dependant system being operated on?
2015-05-07T13:53:13Z Fare: however, if you use build-op with asdf:make, then you can specify :build-operation
2015-05-07T13:53:40Z Shinmera: Hrm, ok.
2015-05-07T13:53:55Z Fare: for dependencies, there's also :in-order-to
2015-05-07T13:54:06Z Shinmera: Right.
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2015-05-07T13:55:24Z Fare: mood: the code must be installed in a place reachable by your source-registry configuration
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2015-05-07T13:55:47Z Fare: which should be the case of /usr/local/share/common-lisp/source/ by default
2015-05-07T13:55:59Z Fare: which ASDF are you using? There might be bugs in it, too
2015-05-07T13:56:09Z mood: Fare: Yes, but dispatch.lisp isn't copied over to there with make install
2015-05-07T13:56:14Z mood: I'm using ASDF 3.1.3
2015-05-07T13:56:24Z Fare: oh, make install fails to copy it? Oops.
2015-05-07T13:58:32Z failproofshark: àhello
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2015-05-07T14:00:34Z kami: failproofshark: àhello to you too
2015-05-07T14:01:30Z failproofshark: kami: heh, not sure where that stray accented a came from
2015-05-07T14:01:39Z kami: :)
2015-05-07T14:01:49Z mood: I think it was an anaphoric hello, or something
2015-05-07T14:02:03Z failproofshark: hah
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2015-05-07T14:02:13Z failproofshark: so how are things kami and  mood ?
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2015-05-07T14:02:58Z kami: failproofshark: I'm struggling with cl-libssh2 (http://www.bytebucket.org/alxchk/cl-libssh2)
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2015-05-07T14:03:04Z kami: to add sftp support
2015-05-07T14:03:15Z mood: failproofshark: I'm fine, doing a bit of lisp at work :D
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2015-05-07T14:04:16Z kami: Fare: is there some info on the details of how versioned depends-on works (as in ':depends-on ((:version :some-system "1.3"))') ?
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2015-05-07T14:04:48Z failproofshark: cool
2015-05-07T14:07:22Z failproofshark: kami: i this your repository?
2015-05-07T14:07:32Z failproofshark: mood: for fun or for profit or both?
2015-05-07T14:07:33Z Fare: kami: I believe the manual touches the topic briefly
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2015-05-07T14:07:43Z failproofshark: *is that
2015-05-07T14:07:56Z kami: failproofshark: no, I found it when searching for a lib with sftp support
2015-05-07T14:08:04Z failproofshark: ah ok
2015-05-07T14:08:24Z mood: failproofshark: both
2015-05-07T14:08:55Z kami: Fare: yes, I thought you might have written a blog entry or alike
2015-05-07T14:10:02Z kami: Fare: so I can have multiple versions of the same lib in the source-registry and if a system :depends-on a specific version, then the correct one is loaded?
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2015-05-07T14:10:14Z Fare: no, unhappily not
2015-05-07T14:10:21Z Fare: asdf checks version consistency
2015-05-07T14:10:31Z Fare: but doesn't solve version constraints
2015-05-07T14:10:42Z kami: I see.
2015-05-07T14:13:39Z kami: Fare: how is uiop:command-line-arguments related to the library command-line-arguments? Does uiop:c-l-a provide everything which is in c-l-a?
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2015-05-07T14:24:34Z Fare makes a quick release of cl-launch 4.1.3.1
2015-05-07T14:24:52Z Fare: kami: the library does parsing of the arguments
2015-05-07T14:25:45Z Fare: Note that I'm pushing for CLON to adopt the few things where my library is still superior, and I hope to then declare my library obsolete in favor of CLON.
2015-05-07T14:26:01Z Fare: right now, I still prefer my library, for many reasons.
2015-05-07T14:26:04Z kami: Fare: good to know
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2015-05-07T14:26:18Z Fare: but CLON has a lot of perks
2015-05-07T14:27:19Z kami: There is something I would appreciate: a way of specifying the configuration options /either/ as command line args /or/ as a configuration file
2015-05-07T14:28:25Z Fare: oh, my library doesn't do it, and I don't think CLON does either, though CLON makes it easy to have defaults from $ENVIRONMENT_VARIABLES
2015-05-07T14:28:26Z kami: or maybe even a combination of a config file /and/ command line options
2015-05-07T14:28:49Z Fare: for configuration files, you might want to reuse the uiop infrastructure
2015-05-07T14:29:25Z Fare: though the API of UIOP is being updated right now, with slight pathname incompatibilities on Windows.
2015-05-07T14:30:55Z kami: Fare: will look into it. I read your 'Why Lisp is an acceptable ...' paper with great interest
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2015-05-07T14:39:27Z eudoxia: kami: i have a more up-to-date, working copy of cl-libssh2 in my trivial-ssh project, you might find it easier to work with
2015-05-07T14:39:44Z eudoxia: https://github.com/eudoxia0/trivial-ssh
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2015-05-07T14:41:01Z kami: eudoxia: does it support sftp?
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2015-05-07T14:41:08Z eudoxia: no
2015-05-07T14:41:15Z eudoxia: just saying maybe you want to work from there
2015-05-07T14:41:23Z eudoxia: cause it at least builds
2015-05-07T14:42:13Z kami: eudoxia: I didn't have any build problems on current SBCL.
2015-05-07T14:42:38Z eudoxia: huh
2015-05-07T14:43:07Z kami: I loaded and tried the (meager) examples.lisp
2015-05-07T14:43:31Z kami: Although I got dizzy from all the 'with-...' macros
2015-05-07T14:43:58Z kami: I cannot open the github link from where I am currently.
2015-05-07T14:49:33Z kami cannot access github because of a firewall around a whole country
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2015-05-07T14:50:21Z kami: eudoxia: just cloned it. It is not based on cl-libssh2, but another impl, right?
2015-05-07T14:50:34Z eudoxia: kami: it is
2015-05-07T14:50:43Z eudoxia: there's a slightly modified copy of cl-libssh2 in the libssh2 dir
2015-05-07T14:50:52Z kami: eudoxia: I see
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2015-05-07T14:52:07Z schjetne: kami: blocked IP or just DNS? You can't access 192.30.252.131?
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2015-05-07T14:52:26Z kami: schjetne: thank you. I solved my problem.
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2015-05-07T14:53:07Z kami: eudoxia: did you contact the original author? Is s/he unresponsive?
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2015-05-07T14:55:27Z eudoxia: kami: yes, i sent him a message on bitbucket and he never replied. idk what it was about at this point.
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2015-05-07T14:58:12Z kami: eudoxia: I see. Then it seems reasonable to fork.
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2015-05-07T15:00:33Z Fare: kami: thanks for your interest :-)
2015-05-07T15:00:59Z Fare: and yes, I'm putting my scripting where my mouth is and using CL
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2015-05-07T15:04:03Z kami: eudoxia: is trivial-ssh available with quicklisp?
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2015-05-07T15:04:51Z eudoxia: not yet i think
2015-05-07T15:04:58Z eudoxia: https://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-projects/issues/768
2015-05-07T15:05:26Z kami: eudoxia: now I remember the loading issue!
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2015-05-07T15:05:59Z kami: I had to rename libssh2.cffi.lisp to libssh2-cffi.lisp
2015-05-07T15:06:22Z eudoxia: hah yeah
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2015-05-07T15:07:55Z Fare: I don't know what trivial-ssh does, but I've been using ssh via inferior-shell just fine.
2015-05-07T15:08:33Z eudoxia: that is certainly simpler
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2015-05-07T15:09:20Z Fare: trivial-ssh looks like it will give you better control, via libssh2
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2015-05-07T15:09:41Z kami: Fare: libssh2 is a client lib with finer grained control. You create an ssh session and can perform different operations through that connection
2015-05-07T15:09:55Z Fare: ok. nice.
2015-05-07T15:10:00Z kami: e.g. get an sftp directory listing, retrieving single files
2015-05-07T15:10:13Z kami: deleting ones etc.
2015-05-07T15:10:28Z kami: I have just finished the sftp dir listing and retrieval
2015-05-07T15:11:17Z kami: minion: message for eudoxia: I will then fork trivial-ssh and create a pull request with my sftp additions
2015-05-07T15:11:19Z minion: you speak nonsense
2015-05-07T15:11:21Z salva: kami: libssh2 support for sftp is quite rudimentary
2015-05-07T15:11:38Z kami: salva: it works fine, here
2015-05-07T15:11:38Z SAL9000: kami: "memo" not "message"
2015-05-07T15:11:40Z salva: I know because I am the author of several SSH related Perl modules
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2015-05-07T15:11:45Z kami: SAL9000: thanks
2015-05-07T15:11:59Z salva: some working on top of libssh2
2015-05-07T15:12:16Z kami: minion: memo for eudoxia: I will then fork trivial-ssh and create a pull request with my sftp additions
2015-05-07T15:12:16Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell eudoxia when he/she/it next speaks.
2015-05-07T15:13:07Z kami: salva: I have not implemented much; just an sftp dir listing and retrieval of individual files. And didn't have any special issues other than getting to know the C API.
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2015-05-07T15:14:02Z salva: at least, ensure you are using the latest version released some weeks ago
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2015-05-07T15:14:39Z kami: salva: thanks for the hint. Will do.
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2015-05-07T15:20:27Z akkad: lw and sqlite do not work well on arm
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2015-05-07T15:23:09Z nyef: akkad: Separately, or only in conjunction?
2015-05-07T15:23:31Z nyef: ... And is this different from other platforms?
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2015-05-07T15:28:38Z akkad: oops sorry, I know lw is verboten here
2015-05-07T15:29:02Z nyef: It's not quite verboten, but rarely talked about.
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2015-05-07T15:32:53Z dlowe: lw is great. More power to them.
2015-05-07T15:37:00Z akkad: at least they let you demo stuff, I'm 4 blocks from Franz and those guys act like you need to sign over your first born to look at their products of "62bit version lisp"
2015-05-07T15:38:09Z dlowe: akkad: they're mostly selling to the government, not really to individuals or companies
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2015-05-07T16:40:01Z jasom: I think lw and allegro are on topic
2015-05-07T16:42:01Z Fare: congrats to lw for their 7.0 release.
2015-05-07T16:42:15Z Fare: and for thereby killing asdf2
2015-05-07T16:43:45Z Fare: has anyone had success using gcl recently?
2015-05-07T16:46:15Z rszeno: here building gcl fail with some frame messages whatever i do
2015-05-07T16:46:34Z rszeno: from a long time
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2015-05-07T16:53:15Z Shinmera: Fare: I tried to build it just a few days ago and it didn't succeed. Didn't really bother to see what the problem was though.
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2015-05-07T17:26:24Z Fare just succeeded at building from clean
2015-05-07T17:26:31Z Fare: tried a few days ago and failed
2015-05-07T17:26:34Z Fare: dunno why
2015-05-07T17:27:07Z Shinmera: I guess I'll run a build from CVS.
2015-05-07T17:28:08Z Fare: from git -- they moved to git
2015-05-07T17:28:33Z Fare: now testing asdf with it...
2015-05-07T17:28:34Z Shinmera: Well the AUR only has a package for CVS
2015-05-07T17:28:59Z Fare: AUR ?
2015-05-07T17:29:05Z Shinmera: Arch User Repository.
2015-05-07T17:29:18Z Fare: needs be updated then
2015-05-07T17:29:34Z Shinmera: A neat thing that makes building all sorts of things that aren't in the official repos a task of a single command.
2015-05-07T17:29:59Z Fare: like?
2015-05-07T17:30:09Z Shinmera: Well yeah. I guess the person who initially made the package hasn't bothered to update it.
2015-05-07T17:30:45Z Shinmera: Fare: https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/
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2015-05-07T17:32:20Z ehu wants to add spam detection to lisppaste and ponders copying in gigamonkey's spam detection example verbatim
2015-05-07T17:33:07Z Shinmera: Fare: I recently added a package for clasp to it.
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2015-05-07T17:34:04Z ehu: anybody around implemented spam detection one way or another in CL?
2015-05-07T17:34:22Z Shinmera: I followed PCL's chapter, but I didn't really do anything more with it.
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2015-05-07T17:39:31Z ehu: Shinmera: you mean you used the pcl chapter to implement it?
2015-05-07T17:39:38Z Shinmera: Yes.
2015-05-07T17:39:53Z ehu: ok. do you have any idea how well it works?
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2015-05-07T17:40:15Z Shinmera: I did some tests, but I forgot again. I don't think I saved the sources either, sorry.
2015-05-07T17:40:31Z ehu: I'm having trouble getting SpamBayes running
2015-05-07T17:40:39Z ehu: lots of bugs I'm running into.
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2015-05-07T17:41:57Z ehu: so, I thought that if there's no good library, I might as well build one.
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2015-05-07T17:42:46Z ehu: or rather, copy one :-)
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2015-05-07T17:54:46Z ehu: ok. the algorithm pcl lists is actually the spambayes algorithm, not the spamassassin algorithm which is Graham's original algorithm.
2015-05-07T17:55:23Z ehu: so, implementing/copying pcl does seem like an attractive alternative for trying to hook in spambayes.
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2015-05-07T18:03:56Z Denommus: does anybody remember the minimal amount of special forms that we need, and which are they?
2015-05-07T18:04:19Z Bicyclidine: you only "need" function, so you can do lambda calculus
2015-05-07T18:05:31Z Denommus: Bicyclidine: to create a Lisp, I mean
2015-05-07T18:05:42Z Denommus: Bicyclidine: we also need eval and quote, don't we?
2015-05-07T18:06:00Z Bicyclidine: lambda calculus is turing complete. if you want more than that, be more specific than "a lisp"
2015-05-07T18:06:20Z Denommus: I think I'm finding myself unable to form a proper question
2015-05-07T18:06:38Z Bicyclidine: that happens a lot with these minimization questions.
2015-05-07T18:08:19Z jasom: There are 25 special operators in Common Lisp
2015-05-07T18:08:31Z jasom: many of them can be implemented in terms of others though
2015-05-07T18:08:50Z Denommus: I remember an article describing that, to implement a new Lisp (including homoiconicity) there were a given number of special operators that must be implemented, and everything else can be implemented in terms of these special operators
2015-05-07T18:09:03Z Bicyclidine: there's more than one minimal set.
2015-05-07T18:09:09Z Denommus: IIRC, the author implemented this Lisp in Python
2015-05-07T18:09:15Z oleo: heh
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2015-05-07T18:09:23Z jasom: Denommus: I'm sure there was an article that said that; however, they probably didn't define what was a "lisp"
2015-05-07T18:09:25Z dlowe: it depends on what feature set you want, too
2015-05-07T18:09:29Z Bicyclidine: sort of like logic. you can implement boolean operators out of and, or, and not, or you can use nand, or you can use nor, or a few other things.
2015-05-07T18:09:32Z therik: Petit_Dejeuner, hey
2015-05-07T18:09:50Z dlowe: just because you've defined lambda doesn't mean you automatically have lexical binding
2015-05-07T18:10:16Z therik: Petit_Dejeuner, just wanna thanks again for that reference to that book
2015-05-07T18:10:20Z jasom: Denommus: you are probably talking about this article? http://www.michaelnielsen.org/ddi/lisp-as-the-maxwells-equations-of-software/
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2015-05-07T18:11:16Z Bicyclidine: i guess that's not a bad metaphor, given that there are two distinct formulations of maxwell's equations that aren't particularly better or worse than one another, and with some differential geometry you can get two completely different looking ones instead of those four
2015-05-07T18:11:17Z jasom: You can see page 18 of this: http://www.softwarepreservation.org/projects/LISP/book/LISP%201.5%20Programmers%20Manual.pdf
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2015-05-07T18:12:25Z Denommus: jasom: maybe it was this one: http://norvig.com/lispy.html
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2015-05-07T18:13:15Z Bicyclidine: dF = 0, d*F = \mu_0J. so minimal
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2015-05-07T18:13:39Z oleo: right
2015-05-07T18:13:55Z jasom: node also that in LISP 1.5 functions could have an indifinite number of arguments, so that increased what needed to be a special form
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2015-05-07T18:17:35Z jasom: clhs 3.1.2.1.2.1
2015-05-07T18:17:53Z jasom: the specbot is down?
2015-05-07T18:18:01Z Bicyclidine: Colleen: do clhs 3.1.2.1.2.1
2015-05-07T18:18:01Z Colleen:  http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_ababa.htm
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2015-05-07T18:18:13Z Bicyclidine: i think specbot is down, yeah, dunno why.
2015-05-07T18:19:08Z jasom: Denommus: anyway see that link for the special forms in common lisp.  Some of them are trivially implementable in terms of the remaining ones though
2015-05-07T18:19:17Z Bicyclidine: you can see several implementations of some of thos especial operators in terms of each other at http://www.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/MetaCircular.html
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2015-05-07T18:19:43Z jasom: Though you can't use Baker's as-is since he simplifies a lot of them
2015-05-07T18:20:36Z jasom: his if-in-terms-of lambda is really sneaky
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2015-05-07T18:21:17Z Bicyclidine: it's pretty similar to how you'd do it in lambda calculus, the only complication being dealing with having to use t and nil instead of functions.
2015-05-07T18:21:37Z Bicyclidine: well, how you'd do it in lambda calculus assuming you cared about order of evaluation somehow.
2015-05-07T18:21:50Z jasom: well I was thinking the whole using plists on t and nil
2015-05-07T18:22:16Z Bicyclidine: yeah.
2015-05-07T18:22:39Z Denommus: jasom: I am aware of Common Lisp's special forms
2015-05-07T18:22:44Z jasom: I suppose you could use a hash-table as well
2015-05-07T18:23:10Z jasom: Denommus: Note you will need a lot of functions as well as special forms.
2015-05-07T18:23:42Z jasom: e.g. there is no way to implement OPEN in terms of other lisp primitives
2015-05-07T18:23:49Z jasom: but OPEN need not be a special form
2015-05-07T18:24:36Z Denommus: hm, makes sense
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2015-05-07T18:32:01Z Petit_Dejeuner: therik, No problem. You'll probably finish it before I do.
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2015-05-07T18:34:20Z therik: Petit_Dejeuner, I was talking to my gf an hour ago, apparently she's Hofstadter's student... :o
2015-05-07T18:34:49Z Petit_Dejeuner: lol
2015-05-07T18:35:02Z Petit_Dejeuner: Maybe you can get a signature
2015-05-07T18:35:13Z therik: ex-student
2015-05-07T18:35:52Z therik: not really, first I have to get the book in paper
2015-05-07T18:36:02Z therik: online pdf's are broken... then I have to read it
2015-05-07T18:36:13Z therik: then go to US and find hofstadter haha
2015-05-07T18:36:19Z Petit_Dejeuner: Life is hard.
2015-05-07T18:36:30Z therik: yup. but it's fun
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2015-05-07T18:47:56Z cosmicexplorer: i've been playing with bouncing an AST from c/c++ source using libclang to a sexp and printing to stdout reading it into lisp
2015-05-07T18:47:59Z cosmicexplorer: it works for c programs, but on c++ programs the ast from just the standard header files is massive and sbcl dies of stack exhaustion
2015-05-07T18:48:30Z cosmicexplorer: this is because read is actually a recursive function; are there any iterative alternatives? i was half a hour into rolling my own but realized i might as well ask first
2015-05-07T18:48:37Z oGMo: cosmicexplorer: what for?
2015-05-07T18:49:13Z oGMo: if you're trying to convert C to lisp then probably not
2015-05-07T18:49:14Z cosmicexplorer: i'm trying to write a clone of http://lxr.free-electrons.com/ident?i=kmalloc and wanted to use lisp
2015-05-07T18:49:21Z jasom: whoa, eclipse generages *huge* call stacks; any invocation of funcall puts 32768 pointers on the stack.
2015-05-07T18:49:48Z cosmicexplorer: no i'm using libclang to get the ast directly and i have a wrapper program to convert that representation into a sexp
2015-05-07T18:50:37Z oGMo: cosmicexplorer: well, close .. i have c2ffi which does that but doesn't delve into definitions ... it's only meant for pulling declarations for generating wrappers
2015-05-07T18:50:40Z jasom: cosmicexplorer: you can keep track of your depth in the tree via a stack in a list or a vector
2015-05-07T18:51:02Z oGMo: cosmicexplorer: in theory you could extend it to read defs too for generating who-calls, if that's what you're after, but
2015-05-07T18:51:12Z cosmicexplorer: yeah that's the idea haha
2015-05-07T18:51:55Z cosmicexplorer: jasom: yeah i was about to do that i was just wondering if there was some builtin i could use instead of doing that lol
2015-05-07T18:52:11Z jasom: cosmicexplorer: it's probably possible to increase the stack size of sbcl
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2015-05-07T18:53:08Z oleo: it is
2015-05-07T18:53:28Z jasom: sbcl --control-stack-size 64
2015-05-07T18:53:29Z oleo: but the total stack space exhaustion won't go away just by that....
2015-05-07T18:53:30Z cosmicexplorer: yeah there's an option you get if you run sbcl --help but for some reason that wasn't working for me, even when i tried using prlimit
2015-05-07T18:53:44Z oleo: if it is occuring systematically in your code.....
2015-05-07T18:53:49Z cosmicexplorer: it's just whenever the recursion gets 100 functions deep it dies
2015-05-07T18:53:50Z oGMo: if it's recursive and you don't catch it, no stack size increase is likely to help though :P
2015-05-07T18:54:06Z oleo: right
2015-05-07T18:54:06Z jasom: oGMo: he's traversing a very deeply nested structure; not runaway recursion
2015-05-07T18:54:19Z oGMo: probably shouldn't do that
2015-05-07T18:54:52Z oGMo: best to drop a reference to another record, and look at that when you need it
2015-05-07T18:54:55Z jasom: I already suggested keeping track of nesting off-stack
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2015-05-07T18:55:08Z cosmicexplorer: yeah exactly just flatten the tree
2015-05-07T18:55:23Z oGMo: right but i'm saying you shouldn't look recursively _at all_, unless the declaration is in-place (which happens)
2015-05-07T18:55:51Z oGMo: mostly because why would you, though clang makes it a bit of a pain to tell
2015-05-07T18:55:52Z cosmicexplorer: yeah the recursion isn't from my code it's from calling (read)
2015-05-07T18:55:58Z oGMo: ah
2015-05-07T18:56:05Z jasom: oh!
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2015-05-07T18:57:37Z cosmicexplorer: yeah i mean it won't take too long to write an iterative version of (read) if i don't try to error-check i'll probs just keep working on that
2015-05-07T18:58:52Z Petit_Dejeuner: I think someone just asked this the other day, but what socket libraries are y ou guys using?
2015-05-07T19:00:51Z Petit_Dejeuner: Probably just going to use usocket.
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2015-05-07T19:04:45Z jasom: Petit_Dejeuner: usocket is fine if you don't need non-blocking
2015-05-07T19:04:55Z jasom: Petit_Dejeuner: I use basic-binary-ipc for non-blocking sockets
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2015-05-07T19:31:52Z ehu: whoa! why are lisppaste's pastes stored in XML format with multiple roots in a single file! That means hardly any other tools than lisppaste itself will read the files!
2015-05-07T19:32:48Z ehu has been working the last hours to find a suitable library to read them without being required to code it all over by himself
2015-05-07T19:33:03Z oleo: there are xml libs
2015-05-07T19:33:16Z oleo: cxml
2015-05-07T19:33:19Z H4ns: ehu: xml files cannot have multiple roots.  you need to wrap them in a root element or split at each root
2015-05-07T19:33:21Z oleo: for example
2015-05-07T19:33:36Z H4ns: oleo: cxml needs well-formed files.  a well-formed file has one root.
2015-05-07T19:34:00Z p_l: ehu: does the root element use an unique name?
2015-05-07T19:34:33Z ehu: p_l: nope. the first root is called "paste", but all further roots are called "annotation"
2015-05-07T19:34:39Z oleo: aaah
2015-05-07T19:34:40Z p_l: then it might be easy to split it with just awk. Or just wrap it around some bogus element for purposes of translating
2015-05-07T19:34:49Z p_l: ehu: still could work with awk :)
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2015-05-07T19:35:10Z p_l: or you can just wrap it in a tag :)
2015-05-07T19:35:21Z ehu: actually, that might be a really good idea. I'll strip off the xml version declaration and wrap the rest of the file in a new root.
2015-05-07T19:35:55Z ehu: I'll just copy the pastes somewhere else so I can process them this way and read them consistently.
2015-05-07T19:35:58Z ehu: I like it.
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2015-05-07T19:36:25Z ehu: thanks for getting me out of my tunnel vision.
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2015-05-07T19:37:32Z p_l: np
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2015-05-07T19:42:53Z Shinmera: Plump should be able to grok it fine otherwise.
2015-05-07T19:43:00Z Shinmera: It doesn't care about XML validity.
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2015-05-07T19:46:31Z ehu: Shinmera: neither does lxml apparently, since that's what lisppaste is using, but I'm doing some quick experiments trying to submit to spambayes. Spambayes and the examples are pretty much copy/paste, if I can get to the content I want to paste...
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2015-05-07T19:47:32Z Shinmera: Well, for Plump the story is that it should be lenient. So anything it cannot grok indicates a bug in Plump :)
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2015-05-07T20:40:17Z blackwolf: I managed to edit a number of files under quicklisp's dists/quicklisp/software/ directory.  is there a command to reload/reinstall, or can I just delete the directory and untar the file from dists/quicklisp/archives/? (I guess the question is: does quicklisp perform any post-installation patching?)
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2015-05-07T20:47:19Z madnificent: blackwolf: I've not been following it closely, but as far as I know, it just downloads and unpacks the systems you download.
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2015-05-07T20:48:52Z blackwolf: madnificent: I'd assumed so. to be safe, I'll do a recursive diff.  thx
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2015-05-07T21:00:23Z Xach: blackwolf: you can use (ql:uninstall "system-name") to remove, and quickload will fetch it fresh.
2015-05-07T21:00:31Z Xach: blackwolf: quicklisp does not do any post-install patching.
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2015-05-07T21:03:40Z blackwolf: ah, cool - thanks
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2015-05-07T21:04:06Z blackwolf: will uninstall remove the .tgz?
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2015-05-07T21:05:00Z blackwolf: (going to try to clean this up on my train ride home, wondering if I'll need to tether my laptop)
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2015-05-07T21:06:46Z Fare: is there a good portable CL library for globbing?
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2015-05-07T21:16:57Z pjb: Fare: like shell globbing?
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2015-05-07T21:17:19Z pjb: IIRC, somebody wrote a POSIX shell in CL, so he should have implemented it.
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2015-05-07T21:20:55Z jlarocco_work: what does "portable" mean there?
2015-05-07T21:21:06Z jlarocco_work: i thought different shells on different platforms did it differently
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2015-05-07T21:21:47Z p_l: jlarocco_work: probably meaning it is portable between CL implementations
2015-05-07T21:21:56Z pjb: Fare: there's also: eshell/em-cmpl.lisp which you would have to port to CL.
2015-05-07T21:22:28Z pjb: jlarocco_work: portable means 1- conforming, and 2- when not conforming, using a portability library.
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2015-05-07T21:24:29Z pjb: Fare: sorry, I meant eshell/em-glob.lisp (wrong line copy-pasted)
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2015-05-07T22:10:41Z ehu: hmm. with a bit of training it seems spambayes isn't able to cope with 15% of its input from the paste database. That's a pretty high percentage, I think. but with what it does do, it's classifying (correctly) more than half the pastes as spam.
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2015-05-07T22:13:18Z dim: ehu: tried CRM114 yet? ;-)
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2015-05-07T22:13:48Z ehu: dim: CRM114?
2015-05-07T22:14:16Z dim: as in http://crm114.sourceforge.net/ -- CRM114 - the Controllable Regex Mutilator
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2015-05-07T22:17:02Z ehu: hmm. it says it's fully programmable. I'm thinking so is most of my other tooling. However, I want it to be a tool, not a programming language!
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2015-05-07T22:21:58Z dim: as a programmer the tools I prefer often happen to be programming languages, even if sometimes in disguise (Emacs, PostgreSQL, Common Lisp...)
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2015-05-07T22:27:41Z kephra: is'nt filename globbing part of pathname translation?
2015-05-07T22:30:26Z ehu: dim: Sure, however, I think the solution that I want (a spam filter) is too many manyears away from what bare common lisp provides
2015-05-07T22:30:33Z ehu: although a SMOP, of course.
2015-05-07T22:31:02Z dim: yeah, just port (parts of) CRM114 so that you have a general programming interface to achieve that and more in CL?
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2015-05-07T23:05:11Z ehu: hmm. ok. so, with my initial training, 20%+ gets classified as spam (that's 10% of the total paste set classified)
2015-05-07T23:05:42Z ehu: however, 10% of all pastes goes into the "Unsure" bucket, with ~300 pastes classified.
2015-05-07T23:05:49Z ehu: (which took all evening, unfortunately)
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2015-05-07T23:07:04Z ehu: but the experiment is definitely interesting. I should look into it more.
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2015-05-07T23:52:40Z jasom: If you can really cut out 2/3 of the spam, that would be worthwhile
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