2015-04-18T00:00:36Z CEnnis91 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2015-04-18T00:06:49Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。)
2015-04-18T00:08:25Z brucem: jasom: so you got it all sorted out? is it running under emscripten yet? :)
2015-04-18T00:12:22Z hiyosi joined #lisp
2015-04-18T00:13:34Z jasom: brucem: mostly sorted out; there were two functions that had incorrect file-local prototypes
2015-04-18T00:13:49Z jangle quit (Quit: jangle)
2015-04-18T00:14:04Z brucem: jasom: I just saw your comment in scrollback in #emscripten :)
2015-04-18T00:14:12Z rszeno quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2015-04-18T00:14:13Z jasom: and since the ABI on emscripten for (void *, ...) is different than the abi for (void *, void *, void *) that had bad things
2015-04-18T00:14:47Z jasom: now, for some reason i'ts failing to find a method on a call to make-instance
2015-04-18T00:15:10Z brucem: jasom: yep! the emscripten ABI is occasionally painful / annoying. But is amazing that all of this works at all at times.
2015-04-18T00:15:48Z jasom: eclipse CL is a CLOS-first implementation of lisp; nearly all lisp objects are also standard-objects
2015-04-18T00:16:03Z jasom: and many of the standard functions are actually GFs
2015-04-18T00:17:10Z oleo_ joined #lisp
2015-04-18T00:17:31Z jasom: The pathname module is failing during initialization; it's the 4th from last module initialized (out of about 40) so it's close
2015-04-18T00:18:12Z jasom: brucem: do you know how emscripten handles dangling-else?
2015-04-18T00:18:53Z jasom: there are about 100 dangling else warnings in the code, and if it resolves with "closest if" then I won't making fixing them a priority (since I'm more likely to introduce a bug than fix one)
2015-04-18T00:19:08Z jasom supposes that clang and emcc will almost certainly handle that identically though
2015-04-18T00:19:13Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2015-04-18T00:19:16Z JJaskologist quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-04-18T00:19:18Z brucem: jasom: that's just clang.
2015-04-18T00:19:44Z JJaskologist joined #lisp
2015-04-18T00:24:00Z jasom: with clang, the whole ghing compiles in 26s, making it by far the quickest to build lisp implementation I've used
2015-04-18T00:24:09Z jasom: emcc takes almost a minute
2015-04-18T00:25:19Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2015-04-18T00:25:48Z Xach: how does it go on the ansi-tests?
2015-04-18T00:25:54Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T00:25:55Z _sjs joined #lisp
2015-04-18T00:26:29Z nikki93 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T00:26:36Z jasom: Xach: haven't tried it yet; where can I find them?
2015-04-18T00:26:55Z jasom will probably have to re-enable the GC before running those
2015-04-18T00:28:16Z Xach: jasom: beach has a copy on github, i think
2015-04-18T00:28:38Z nikki93 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-04-18T00:28:40Z Xach: https://common-lisp.net/project/ansi-test/ is a copy too
2015-04-18T00:28:41Z nikki93_ joined #lisp
2015-04-18T00:28:50Z Fare joined #lisp
2015-04-18T00:28:55Z Xach: https://github.com/robert-strandh/ansi-cl-tests is beach's copy
2015-04-18T00:29:19Z Xach: i think beach has asdf-ified some portion of it
2015-04-18T00:29:28Z jasom: brucem: is there any way to get clang to include the names of global vars?  _clFuncall(_clSymbolFunction(HEAP32[2786])) isn't so useful...
2015-04-18T00:29:45Z jasom: Xach: I need it not asdf-ified
2015-04-18T00:29:47Z jasom: no ASDF yet
2015-04-18T00:30:19Z alusion quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2)
2015-04-18T00:30:30Z brucem: jasom: there used to be -s NAMED_GLOBALS=1 ... but that is long gone. It isn't clang in that case but emscripten.
2015-04-18T00:31:09Z jasom: I meant emscripten
2015-04-18T00:31:50Z jasom: -g4 will let me see it better, but I haven't figure out how to switch from .c to .js in chrome-dev-tools yet
2015-04-18T00:31:54Z brucem: jasom: I wonder if in -g4, we could emit a comment with the name of the global ... I'm not sure.
2015-04-18T00:32:07Z gnuian joined #lisp
2015-04-18T00:32:11Z jasom: brucem: if you load it in chrome-dev-tools with -g4 you get C source level debugging
2015-04-18T00:32:24Z brucem: jasom: For your codebase, sure. :)
2015-04-18T00:32:37Z brucem: jasom: My client's code triggers bugs in that and doesn't actually work.
2015-04-18T00:33:07Z jasom: doh!
2015-04-18T00:33:23Z jasom: well it crashes from time-to-time, but other than that works
2015-04-18T00:33:37Z jasom: any time I get over ~50MB of generated .js it tends to get crashy
2015-04-18T00:34:13Z eazar001 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1)
2015-04-18T00:34:29Z jasom: and -g4 tends to make it big
2015-04-18T00:34:31Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T00:35:22Z eazar001 quit (Client Quit)
2015-04-18T00:35:42Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T00:35:57Z robot-beethoven joined #lisp
2015-04-18T00:36:43Z eazar001 quit (Client Quit)
2015-04-18T00:37:01Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T00:37:48Z jasom: also, link times with -g4 are long
2015-04-18T00:39:25Z brucem: jasom: yes ... that's development only... and I actually never use it at that level.
2015-04-18T00:39:44Z brucem: jasom: I value the quick turn around time of -g2
2015-04-18T00:41:35Z eazar001 quit (Client Quit)
2015-04-18T00:41:51Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T00:42:05Z CEnnis91 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T00:42:12Z eazar001 quit (Client Quit)
2015-04-18T00:43:14Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T00:44:41Z eazar001 quit (Client Quit)
2015-04-18T00:45:59Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T00:46:11Z eazar001 quit (Client Quit)
2015-04-18T00:46:41Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T00:49:38Z eazar001 quit (Client Quit)
2015-04-18T00:49:56Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T00:50:03Z jasom: If there was a g2 where a global reference looked like: HEAP32[2786]/*clGT*/
2015-04-18T00:51:01Z brucem: jasom: file a bug and ask!
2015-04-18T00:54:36Z gendl_ joined #lisp
2015-04-18T00:56:12Z gendl quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2015-04-18T00:56:12Z gendl_ is now known as gendl
2015-04-18T00:56:41Z jangle joined #lisp
2015-04-18T00:57:03Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-04-18T00:57:04Z kvsari joined #lisp
2015-04-18T00:57:05Z happy-dude joined #lisp
2015-04-18T01:02:53Z jangle quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-04-18T01:04:56Z nikki93_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T01:05:56Z zlrth joined #lisp
2015-04-18T01:06:50Z jangle joined #lisp
2015-04-18T01:08:26Z aap_ joined #lisp
2015-04-18T01:11:29Z aap quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-04-18T01:12:22Z vdamewood quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"])
2015-04-18T01:16:48Z xinau quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2015-04-18T01:17:50Z k-dawg joined #lisp
2015-04-18T01:23:05Z manuel__ quit (Quit: manuel__)
2015-04-18T01:23:51Z psy joined #lisp
2015-04-18T01:24:22Z psy quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2015-04-18T01:24:53Z sword joined #lisp
2015-04-18T01:25:03Z psy joined #lisp
2015-04-18T01:25:57Z nell joined #lisp
2015-04-18T01:30:23Z doesthiswork joined #lisp
2015-04-18T01:32:39Z doesthiswork: is there someone here who goes by the name "rotgut" on sourceforge?
2015-04-18T01:34:19Z nell is now known as alusion
2015-04-18T01:35:14Z joneshf-laptop joined #lisp
2015-04-18T01:35:32Z BRFPocock joined #lisp
2015-04-18T01:39:58Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-04-18T01:41:17Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2015-04-18T01:41:23Z urandom__ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2015-04-18T01:42:01Z tkhoa2711 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T01:43:17Z clop2 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2015-04-18T01:47:40Z linux_dream quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-04-18T01:48:17Z linux_dream joined #lisp
2015-04-18T01:50:56Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T01:56:42Z karswell` quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015-04-18T01:57:19Z pyon quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-04-18T01:59:16Z x1n4u joined #lisp
2015-04-18T01:59:35Z mbuf joined #lisp
2015-04-18T02:00:19Z pyon joined #lisp
2015-04-18T02:00:20Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2015-04-18T02:01:02Z guicho joined #lisp
2015-04-18T02:03:15Z karswell` joined #lisp
2015-04-18T02:03:16Z ASau quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T02:04:05Z ASau joined #lisp
2015-04-18T02:04:47Z pnpuff joined #lisp
2015-04-18T02:06:16Z psy quit (Disconnected by services)
2015-04-18T02:07:00Z psy_ joined #lisp
2015-04-18T02:08:29Z joneshf-laptop quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-04-18T02:08:39Z mbuf_ joined #lisp
2015-04-18T02:08:57Z joneshf-laptop joined #lisp
2015-04-18T02:10:52Z ASau quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T02:12:24Z mbuf quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2015-04-18T02:13:00Z tali713 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T02:13:17Z ASau joined #lisp
2015-04-18T02:14:03Z joneshf-laptop quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-04-18T02:14:39Z guicho_ joined #lisp
2015-04-18T02:15:08Z akkad: sourceforget?
2015-04-18T02:15:45Z guicho quit (Read error: No route to host)
2015-04-18T02:15:54Z mbuf_ is now known as mbuf
2015-04-18T02:16:26Z ASau quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T02:17:23Z harish quit (Read error: No route to host)
2015-04-18T02:18:02Z harish joined #lisp
2015-04-18T02:18:16Z ASau joined #lisp
2015-04-18T02:18:51Z guicho_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-04-18T02:20:27Z guicho_ joined #lisp
2015-04-18T02:21:35Z ASau quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T02:22:41Z ASau joined #lisp
2015-04-18T02:24:58Z tkhoa2711 quit (Quit: tkhoa2711)
2015-04-18T02:26:03Z gendl left #lisp
2015-04-18T02:26:12Z ASau quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T02:26:13Z guicho_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-04-18T02:30:15Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp
2015-04-18T02:33:06Z ASau joined #lisp
2015-04-18T02:33:42Z jasom: brucem: any hints for trying to peek inside structs in emscripten?
2015-04-18T02:34:02Z ASau quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T02:34:23Z joneshf-laptop joined #lisp
2015-04-18T02:34:57Z ASau joined #lisp
2015-04-18T02:38:10Z scymtym_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T02:39:55Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-04-18T02:43:26Z jangle quit (Quit: jangle)
2015-04-18T02:48:18Z Davidbrcz quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-04-18T02:50:39Z jangle joined #lisp
2015-04-18T02:54:23Z irctc887 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T02:59:13Z brucem: jasom: hmm, I just read it at the generated JS level. HEAP32[...] references. :)
2015-04-18T03:03:16Z jasom: brucem: I can't even figure out where it is checking the type for the gf dispatch in the C; doing it in the .js might be a bit hard
2015-04-18T03:03:59Z jasom: maybe I can find the lisp code; 90% of this was generated by itself
2015-04-18T03:07:26Z mbuf quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2015-04-18T03:07:28Z irctc887 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2015-04-18T03:08:37Z MrWoohoo quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"])
2015-04-18T03:11:14Z jasom: +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
2015-04-18T03:11:17Z jasom: .
2015-04-18T03:12:12Z jasom: sorry, that was my 2 year old daughter
2015-04-18T03:13:10Z linux_dream: young age to learn lisp but hey... :)
2015-04-18T03:13:45Z Longlius quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T03:13:46Z hiyosi quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2015-04-18T03:13:47Z Bike: looks more like brainfuck
2015-04-18T03:14:41Z emaczen: can anyone add me to the ecl mailing list or point me to some resources for configuring the ecl-android branch?
2015-04-18T03:16:16Z Longlius joined #lisp
2015-04-18T03:16:44Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2015-04-18T03:19:09Z smokeink joined #lisp
2015-04-18T03:20:15Z A205B064 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-04-18T03:26:10Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015-04-18T03:27:04Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2015-04-18T03:32:38Z doesthiswork quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2015-04-18T03:34:19Z sdothum quit (Quit: ZNC - 1.6.0 - http://znc.in)
2015-04-18T03:35:20Z ASau quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T03:37:03Z linux_dream quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-04-18T03:50:20Z hiyosi joined #lisp
2015-04-18T03:51:19Z zlrth quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-04-18T03:55:52Z pnpuff quit (Quit: Page closed)
2015-04-18T03:57:09Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2015-04-18T03:57:23Z karswell` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-04-18T03:58:21Z karswell` joined #lisp
2015-04-18T04:02:08Z a2015 quit (Quit: Page closed)
2015-04-18T04:06:10Z gingerale joined #lisp
2015-04-18T04:06:26Z emaczen: minion: memo for jackdaniel: Can you add me to the ECL mailing list? I've signed up but I have never received the verification/authentication email. I'm getting weird gcc errors and think it would be a good idea to post this to the mailing list. Thanks.
2015-04-18T04:06:26Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell jackdaniel when he/she/it next speaks.
2015-04-18T04:13:40Z munksgaard joined #lisp
2015-04-18T04:19:04Z tkhoa2711 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T04:25:38Z cluck quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T04:29:12Z jangle quit (Quit: jangle)
2015-04-18T04:29:42Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2015-04-18T04:30:15Z Kanae joined #lisp
2015-04-18T04:30:36Z CEnnis91 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2015-04-18T04:30:42Z karswell` quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2015-04-18T04:32:07Z A205B064 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T04:33:02Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2015-04-18T04:37:24Z _sjs joined #lisp
2015-04-18T04:44:04Z wz1000 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T04:52:01Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-04-18T05:05:56Z tkhoa2711 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2015-04-18T05:09:14Z vdamewood joined #lisp
2015-04-18T05:14:11Z marsjaninzmarsa joined #lisp
2015-04-18T05:14:16Z marsjaninzmarsa: hi.
2015-04-18T05:19:32Z mrSpec joined #lisp
2015-04-18T05:19:54Z marsjaninzmarsa: ohai mrSpec!
2015-04-18T05:20:03Z marsjaninzmarsa: i have code: http://paste.lisp.org/+35L1
2015-04-18T05:21:02Z marsjaninzmarsa: but I want to rewrite part of it
2015-04-18T05:21:41Z mrSpec: Hi marsjaninzmarsa!
2015-04-18T05:22:13Z marsjaninzmarsa: in my child package (i don't if i'm calling it well)
2015-04-18T05:24:13Z marsjaninzmarsa: I can't redefun it all, cause I'm not maintainer of this code and I wanna to can keep orig function (do-something is lot moar than do-something, and it's still morphing from version to version)
2015-04-18T05:24:53Z marsjaninzmarsa: I wanna only change if condition from lonely is-public to something more specific.
2015-04-18T05:25:03Z marsjaninzmarsa: it's even possible? how? :D
2015-04-18T05:26:27Z marsjaninzmarsa: (i don't know if i'm calling it well*)
2015-04-18T05:27:43Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2015-04-18T05:32:21Z vr-rm quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2015-04-18T05:36:12Z manuel__ quit (Quit: manuel__)
2015-04-18T05:37:26Z kvsari quit (Quit: leaving)
2015-04-18T05:43:16Z beach joined #lisp
2015-04-18T05:43:38Z ggole joined #lisp
2015-04-18T05:43:45Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2015-04-18T05:43:45Z minion: beach, memo from pjb: Swedish Space Program: http://www.popsci.com/swedish-brothers-launch-doughnut-space  ;-)
2015-04-18T05:44:03Z Quadrescence joined #lisp
2015-04-18T05:44:16Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight)
2015-04-18T05:44:21Z blt joined #lisp
2015-04-18T05:44:25Z Quadrescence quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T05:55:08Z protist_ joined #lisp
2015-04-18T05:58:10Z xinau joined #lisp
2015-04-18T06:01:37Z x1n4u quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-04-18T06:04:36Z beach: drmeister: I think it is easy to preserve source tracking for compound expressions across macro and compiler-macro expansion.  For things like symbols, numbers, and characters, it is not generally possible, or at least not easy.
2015-04-18T06:05:24Z beach: The Common Lisp HyperSpec allows for a macro function to be called any number of times, right?
2015-04-18T06:09:21Z emaczen` joined #lisp
2015-04-18T06:11:06Z jumblerg joined #lisp
2015-04-18T06:11:23Z White_Flame: yes
2015-04-18T06:12:40Z beach: In order to determine whether the origin of an atom in expanded code is from the macro expander or from the arguments to the macro expander, I tried something that I don't know whether it is generally legal or not...
2015-04-18T06:13:18Z emaczen quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-04-18T06:13:29Z ehu joined #lisp
2015-04-18T06:13:32Z beach: If I saw an atom that is EQL to one in the argument, I would modify it in the argument and call the macro expander again, to see whether the same place in the expanded code changed.
2015-04-18T06:14:07Z ehu quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-04-18T06:14:12Z beach: Of course, I had to capture any errors that might happen then.
2015-04-18T06:14:41Z White_Flame: that's dangerous if the macro has side effects
2015-04-18T06:15:08Z beach: Right.  That's why I said, I don't know whether it is generally legal or not.
2015-04-18T06:15:25Z White_Flame: I'm not sure it's "illegal"
2015-04-18T06:15:34Z White_Flame: just "screwy" :)
2015-04-18T06:16:05Z beach: I agree.  But if "screwy" is what it takes to do a good job with source tracking, why not? :)
2015-04-18T06:16:12Z ehu joined #lisp
2015-04-18T06:16:28Z White_Flame: it's basically violating the likely unstated assumption that the parameters given to the macro are the same ones that the macro body gets
2015-04-18T06:16:31Z beach: I think I'll skip it initially, though.
2015-04-18T06:17:14Z beach: Oh?  How so?
2015-04-18T06:17:42Z beach: All I do is call the macro function with some stuff I invented.
2015-04-18T06:17:53Z beach: And then I check how it handles it.
2015-04-18T06:19:26Z White_Flame: right, but this is in the compiler
2015-04-18T06:19:39Z White_Flame: so your macro is being called with parameters never intended by the user
2015-04-18T06:19:47Z beach: True.
2015-04-18T06:20:03Z White_Flame: and again, the only real problem is side effects
2015-04-18T06:20:21Z White_Flame: call a macro with the wrong function, it somehow manages to format your harddrive and launch an ICBM somehow
2015-04-18T06:20:21Z Bahman joined #lisp
2015-04-18T06:20:35Z White_Flame: s/function/parameters/
2015-04-18T06:20:43Z beach: Right.
2015-04-18T06:21:10Z beach: Cute idea, though, I thought.
2015-04-18T06:21:43Z White_Flame: yep, and if they're purely functional it would work
2015-04-18T06:21:51Z White_Flame: which, granted, is the common case
2015-04-18T06:21:57Z beach: Oh, it works!  I tried it! :)
2015-04-18T06:22:22Z beach: I guess I can do it for standard macros.
2015-04-18T06:22:50Z beach: And perhaps have a declaration for macros that guarantee that they have no side effects.
2015-04-18T06:23:17Z beach: Then I can use this method only on macros for which it is safe.
2015-04-18T06:24:10Z beach: For standard macros, I can even pre-determine the relationship between input and output.
2015-04-18T06:27:47Z beach: Are macro functions allowed to destructively modify their arguments?
2015-04-18T06:28:05Z beach: I would think not, because they can't control whether they are going to be constants at some point.
2015-04-18T06:28:54Z beach: At least, I would think "the consequences are undefined" if they do or something like that.
2015-04-18T06:29:03Z Fare quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-04-18T06:30:21Z beach: Note to self: specify this more in Common Lisp version 2 (which will be called something else to avoid confusion with CLtL2).
2015-04-18T06:30:47Z White_Flame casts a vote for declarative toplevel
2015-04-18T06:31:09Z beach: Can you give an example?
2015-04-18T06:31:40Z White_Flame: delete a toplevel defun from the file, reload the .lisp file, the function is no longer in the image
2015-04-18T06:32:47Z White_Flame: and that can cascade into all sorts of ideas and recompilation scenarios where hopefully it can "do the right thing", but does put more weight towards writing functionally
2015-04-18T06:33:01Z White_Flame: especially when macros are involved
2015-04-18T06:33:16Z beach: I guess I don't understand what you mean by "declarative toplevel".
2015-04-18T06:33:37Z White_Flame: a function exists because its defun form exists at some toplevel loaded file, NOT because defun was evaluated at some time
2015-04-18T06:34:08Z emaczen` quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-04-18T06:34:13Z White_Flame: when its declaration disappears, it disappears
2015-04-18T06:34:18Z beach: That sounds like a pretty radical change of semantics.
2015-04-18T06:34:21Z SAL9000: White_Flame: what happens if a function is declared at the REPL?
2015-04-18T06:34:22Z White_Flame: it is
2015-04-18T06:34:23Z sunwukong` joined #lisp
2015-04-18T06:34:27Z kvsari joined #lisp
2015-04-18T06:34:30Z White_Flame: SAL9000: right, that's the imperative playground
2015-04-18T06:34:59Z SAL9000: so what you're saying is, let's tag DEFUNs created from loading files so that they vanish when the file is reloaded?
2015-04-18T06:35:23Z White_Flame: expanding on the idea, if you change a defmacro, the usage sites would be reevaluated to reflect the new expansion semantics.  And things like that demand functional quite quickly
2015-04-18T06:35:43Z SAL9000: if I understand correctly, this would require loading of files to stop all threads.
2015-04-18T06:36:30Z White_Flame: does changing the symbol-function via DEFUN cause threads to stop?
2015-04-18T06:36:34Z SAL9000: no idea
2015-04-18T06:36:48Z beach: White_Flame: I don't do radical changes, so it is not going to be in Common Lisp version 2 (which will be called something else to avoid confusion with CLtL2).
2015-04-18T06:36:57Z White_Flame: well,if they're expecting to call the function, they'd certainly stop with a condition if it were to vanish :)
2015-04-18T06:37:06Z White_Flame: beach: very much so.
2015-04-18T06:37:13Z SAL9000: perhaps have the spec require DEFUNs to be tagged so you can tell whether it was created in a LOAD-FILE or at the REPL
2015-04-18T06:37:23Z White_Flame: I'd advocate for the name "Common Lisp 3"
2015-04-18T06:37:41Z SAL9000: and then have a (repl-utils:interactive-load-file) which has your semantics
2015-04-18T06:37:42Z beach: I will just avoid any numbers.
2015-04-18T06:38:22Z White_Flame: My thinking, where this idea stews, would be that Common Lisp was an amalgamation of existing Lisp implementations.  The new "Common Lisp" should draw from Closure, Scheme, and all the other Lisp-affected languages out there with interesting ideas
2015-04-18T06:39:00Z White_Flame: but it's certainly in pipe-dream land
2015-04-18T06:39:37Z White_Flame: and breeds ideas of a completely new from ground up language, than what CL seemed to be to its predecessors
2015-04-18T06:39:59Z pt1 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T06:40:05Z beach: White_Flame: Might be good, but it is totally different from my idea of Common Lisp version 2 (which will be called something else to avoid confusion with CLtL2).  My idea is that any implementation that is conforming according to the new specification will also be conforming according to the HyperSpec (modulo typos in the HyperSpec).
2015-04-18T06:40:06Z White_Flame: anyway, just random ideas piqued again from the macro fiddling
2015-04-18T06:41:08Z White_Flame: so you wouldn't prune anything from the hyperspec, or make any incompatible changes to do things like have more consistent parameter orderings/keyword-vs-optional in standard functions?
2015-04-18T06:42:22Z beach: Correct.  It would just be "stricter".  Specify more things, like the meaning of type declarations.
2015-04-18T06:42:25Z White_Flame: keeping old compatibilities leads to Javascript's weirdness of for(x IN y) vs for EACH(x IN y) vs for(x OF y) etc, not wanting to break any old terms and thus having to do weirder and weirder naming conventions
2015-04-18T06:43:24Z beach: Baby steps.  I think my idea is the only one possible if I want wide acceptance.
2015-04-18T06:43:39Z White_Flame: sure, though it sounds like it would be more CL1.1 than CL2.0
2015-04-18T06:43:57Z beach: That's why I won't use numbers in the name.
2015-04-18T06:47:24Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2015-04-18T06:49:20Z beach vanishes for a while.
2015-04-18T07:04:05Z nikki93 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T07:04:19Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T07:05:24Z pranavrc joined #lisp
2015-04-18T07:05:24Z pranavrc quit (Changing host)
2015-04-18T07:05:24Z pranavrc joined #lisp
2015-04-18T07:08:01Z RenRenJuan quit (Quit: Hibernate, etc.)
2015-04-18T07:08:24Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp
2015-04-18T07:12:32Z nikki93 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T07:12:48Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T07:14:19Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T07:14:43Z pt1 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T07:16:24Z happy-dude quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2015-04-18T07:20:07Z mishoo joined #lisp
2015-04-18T07:22:26Z MrWoohoo joined #lisp
2015-04-18T07:28:49Z Shinmera joined #lisp
2015-04-18T07:29:49Z rak[2] joined #lisp
2015-04-18T07:31:52Z aap_ is now known as aap
2015-04-18T07:32:31Z gniourf_gniourf quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2)
2015-04-18T07:36:12Z Shinmera: beach: I forget if it's stated explicitly anywhere within the CLHS, but destructively modifying the arguments in a macro is 'not permitted'. Consider the case where an implementation expands it multiple times. The consequences would be unpredictable. Try writing a WITH macro or similar that changes its body conses or something like that on SBCL. You'll get wonderful results.
2015-04-18T07:36:18Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp
2015-04-18T07:37:26Z Quadrescence joined #lisp
2015-04-18T07:41:37Z ehu: Shinmera: it doesn't say that on the defmacro page at least. I'm not sure it's not allowed. the fact that sbcl behaves funny when you do, I'm not sure that's correct.
2015-04-18T07:41:54Z ehu: defmacro should return the expanded forms.
2015-04-18T07:42:10Z ehu: it doesn't say it should generate new forms.
2015-04-18T07:42:21Z ehu: (when not returning the original)
2015-04-18T07:42:40Z Shinmera: It doesn't need to generate new forms either.
2015-04-18T07:43:14Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2015-04-18T07:46:17Z hiyosi quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2015-04-18T07:46:55Z Shinmera: Either way, it seems clear to me that you'll get screwy results since the forms passed to the macro are literals. Combining that with allowing multiple expansions is bound to result in ???.
2015-04-18T07:56:36Z stepnem joined #lisp
2015-04-18T08:01:27Z jumblerg joined #lisp
2015-04-18T08:02:36Z gnuian quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2015-04-18T08:04:58Z Quadrescence quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2015-04-18T08:05:46Z jumblerg quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2015-04-18T08:06:28Z Pastaf quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-04-18T08:09:16Z marsjaninzmarsa quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2015-04-18T08:10:28Z ASau joined #lisp
2015-04-18T08:18:51Z malbertife joined #lisp
2015-04-18T08:29:22Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2015-04-18T08:31:05Z zadock joined #lisp
2015-04-18T08:31:44Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2015-04-18T08:33:45Z malbertife joined #lisp
2015-04-18T08:34:47Z tajjada joined #lisp
2015-04-18T08:35:29Z Slothel quit (Disconnected by services)
2015-04-18T08:35:42Z Slothel joined #lisp
2015-04-18T08:35:49Z Slothel: anyone know alternative to radeon driver for xorg?
2015-04-18T08:35:57Z css106420_ joined #lisp
2015-04-18T08:36:17Z jumblerg joined #lisp
2015-04-18T08:36:48Z ehu: does anybody have  a good e-mail address of Brian Mastenbrook? I've been getting back mails I've sent as part of the common-lisp.net migrations. However, I'd rather see him notified.
2015-04-18T08:37:49Z splittist: ehu: you could send him a tweet
2015-04-18T08:38:16Z ehu: splittist: :-) If I were a twitter user, yea. Can someone do it for me? I'm not a twitter user.
2015-04-18T08:38:25Z tahr56071 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T08:40:23Z jumblerg quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2015-04-18T08:41:26Z cadadar joined #lisp
2015-04-18T08:42:10Z tahr56071 quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2015-04-18T08:42:34Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2015-04-18T08:49:37Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T08:50:18Z malbertife joined #lisp
2015-04-18T08:52:04Z hiyosi joined #lisp
2015-04-18T08:54:30Z rak[2] quit (Quit: leaving)
2015-04-18T09:01:24Z yang_ is now known as ang
2015-04-18T09:01:26Z d4ryus joined #lisp
2015-04-18T09:01:28Z ang is now known as yang
2015-04-18T09:03:56Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2015-04-18T09:04:38Z d4ryus_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-04-18T09:06:10Z ASau joined #lisp
2015-04-18T09:06:27Z balle joined #lisp
2015-04-18T09:07:41Z yenda joined #lisp
2015-04-18T09:15:56Z pt1 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T09:18:46Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2015-04-18T09:20:08Z tajjada: Which lisp implementation has best support for ARM processors (performance-wise)?
2015-04-18T09:20:31Z tajjada: I want to run some of my lisp programs on an ARM board. Haven't done that before.
2015-04-18T09:22:17Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T09:22:32Z codefo joined #lisp
2015-04-18T09:24:01Z pranavrc quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2015-04-18T09:28:01Z milosn quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2015-04-18T09:28:20Z k-dawg quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2015-04-18T09:32:23Z hitecnologys: tajjada: CCL can run on ARM and SBCL probably can as well.
2015-04-18T09:32:37Z hitecnologys: jasom: they are both very good compilers.
2015-04-18T09:32:42Z hitecnologys: Oops.
2015-04-18T09:33:01Z hitecnologys: That was for tajjada, I mistyped.
2015-04-18T09:37:08Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2015-04-18T09:39:20Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2015-04-18T09:43:00Z Slothel quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T09:43:36Z beach quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2015-04-18T09:47:37Z malbertife joined #lisp
2015-04-18T09:47:44Z vap1 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T09:49:43Z malbertife quit (Client Quit)
2015-04-18T09:55:57Z ehu quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-04-18T09:58:11Z ehu joined #lisp
2015-04-18T09:59:48Z selat joined #lisp
2015-04-18T10:00:41Z balle: i am playing a little bit with hunchentoot and it's working great with http but with https it doesnt find the easy handlers. do i have to register them differently?
2015-04-18T10:01:25Z A205B064 quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2015-04-18T10:04:46Z H4ns: you need to use HUNCHENTOOT:EASY-SSL-ACCEPTOR
2015-04-18T10:04:50Z blt quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2015-04-18T10:06:03Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2015-04-18T10:06:17Z remi`bd joined #lisp
2015-04-18T10:06:51Z balle: H4ns: hunchentoot is accessable with https but it doesnt call the easy handlers http://paste.lisp.org/display/147214
2015-04-18T10:08:10Z H4ns: i told you what to do
2015-04-18T10:08:56Z balle: and i thought i've done it already
2015-04-18T10:09:06Z H4ns: but you did not.
2015-04-18T10:09:11Z H4ns: you need to use HUNCHENTOOT:EASY-SSL-ACCEPTOR
2015-04-18T10:09:22Z axion: you need to use HUNCHENTOOT:EASY-SSL-ACCEPTOR
2015-04-18T10:09:49Z balle: ah oh now i see lol the easy is missing thx
2015-04-18T10:10:01Z balle: maybe i get another cup of coffee :)
2015-04-18T10:11:36Z H4ns: that is an excellent idea
2015-04-18T10:12:34Z balle: and with the easy prefix it's easily working *g*
2015-04-18T10:13:31Z theos quit (Disconnected by services)
2015-04-18T10:14:02Z theos joined #lisp
2015-04-18T10:21:46Z Xach is excited to see 88 lisp friends at ELS on monday
2015-04-18T10:25:58Z Shinmera is too.
2015-04-18T10:26:26Z balle: do they record the lectures on video?
2015-04-18T10:28:54Z ehu quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2015-04-18T10:31:13Z Xach: balle: yes
2015-04-18T10:35:01Z BitPuffin joined #lisp
2015-04-18T10:36:42Z vdamewood quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"])
2015-04-18T10:38:33Z selat quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2015-04-18T10:41:58Z milosn joined #lisp
2015-04-18T10:42:45Z robot-beethoven quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2015-04-18T10:48:01Z milosn quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-04-18T10:48:28Z milosn joined #lisp
2015-04-18T10:50:52Z hekmek joined #lisp
2015-04-18T10:51:25Z sdothum joined #lisp
2015-04-18T11:01:51Z milosn quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-04-18T11:02:02Z wz1000 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1)
2015-04-18T11:02:29Z milosn joined #lisp
2015-04-18T11:13:51Z pt1 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T11:16:15Z milosn quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-04-18T11:17:46Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T11:19:50Z futpib joined #lisp
2015-04-18T11:20:51Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2015-04-18T11:22:50Z pt1 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T11:28:15Z ASau quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T11:28:44Z ASau joined #lisp
2015-04-18T11:29:00Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T11:29:25Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2015-04-18T11:29:40Z ehu joined #lisp
2015-04-18T11:30:55Z ehu quit (Client Quit)
2015-04-18T11:31:40Z yeticry joined #lisp
2015-04-18T11:33:15Z k-stz joined #lisp
2015-04-18T11:37:17Z ASau quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T11:38:00Z ASau joined #lisp
2015-04-18T11:40:53Z axion: do they release the lectures on video?
2015-04-18T11:43:44Z Xach: axion: Xof wrote "hopefully, but no guarantees"
2015-04-18T11:43:48Z hitecnologys: Oh, ELS, already?
2015-04-18T11:44:08Z axion: Xach: ah ok
2015-04-18T11:44:50Z ASau quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T11:48:24Z tajjada: hitecnologys: sorry for responding so late, i had to go afk. I am currently using SBCL (latest git code) on x86. Will try building it on ARM and see how it goes. Thanks.
2015-04-18T11:49:12Z hitecnologys: tajjada: roger that.
2015-04-18T11:49:25Z ASau joined #lisp
2015-04-18T11:51:00Z ehu joined #lisp
2015-04-18T12:00:13Z madnificent joined #lisp
2015-04-18T12:03:34Z balle: wuah it's already 3 hours ago that i started playing around with hunchentoot and template engines
2015-04-18T12:03:43Z balle: but it were 3 great hours :)
2015-04-18T12:03:45Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2015-04-18T12:03:55Z Patzy joined #lisp
2015-04-18T12:04:42Z balle: djula templates are really cool especially for me being a python programmer at work
2015-04-18T12:06:50Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2015-04-18T12:12:50Z sz0 quit (Quit: Bye.)
2015-04-18T12:16:35Z balle left #lisp
2015-04-18T12:16:55Z hekmek quit (Quit: hekmek)
2015-04-18T12:17:08Z balle joined #lisp
2015-04-18T12:17:45Z balle: whoops wrong fingers on keyboard exception ^^
2015-04-18T12:19:14Z pranavrc joined #lisp
2015-04-18T12:21:50Z White_Flame quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-04-18T12:27:50Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, etc.)
2015-04-18T12:31:43Z ziocroc joined #lisp
2015-04-18T12:33:10Z codefo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2015-04-18T12:34:52Z xinau quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-04-18T12:44:37Z manuel__ quit (Quit: manuel__)
2015-04-18T12:46:48Z CEnnis91 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T12:50:56Z Bahman quit (Quit: Ave atque vale)
2015-04-18T12:51:40Z codefo joined #lisp
2015-04-18T12:52:05Z madnific` joined #lisp
2015-04-18T12:52:50Z madnificent quit (Read error: No route to host)
2015-04-18T12:56:21Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2015-04-18T12:56:38Z madnific` is now known as madnificent
2015-04-18T12:59:32Z arenz joined #lisp
2015-04-18T13:00:47Z oleo__ joined #lisp
2015-04-18T13:02:50Z oleo_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-04-18T13:06:32Z codefo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2015-04-18T13:08:13Z pranavrc quit
2015-04-18T13:11:18Z scymtym_ joined #lisp
2015-04-18T13:14:13Z cluck joined #lisp
2015-04-18T13:23:13Z arenz quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-04-18T13:26:26Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2015-04-18T13:27:17Z clop2 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T13:27:23Z Patzy joined #lisp
2015-04-18T13:49:50Z milosn joined #lisp
2015-04-18T13:51:24Z sepi`` is now known as sepi
2015-04-18T14:09:08Z mrkkrp joined #lisp
2015-04-18T14:09:21Z selat joined #lisp
2015-04-18T14:16:05Z dview joined #lisp
2015-04-18T14:16:30Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-04-18T14:22:00Z selat quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2015-04-18T14:25:27Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T14:33:22Z blt joined #lisp
2015-04-18T14:33:38Z blt quit (Changing host)
2015-04-18T14:33:38Z blt joined #lisp
2015-04-18T14:34:28Z fikusz quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2015-04-18T14:34:35Z mishoo joined #lisp
2015-04-18T14:35:14Z zlrth joined #lisp
2015-04-18T14:36:42Z zlrth` joined #lisp
2015-04-18T14:38:27Z blt quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2015-04-18T14:38:40Z fikusz joined #lisp
2015-04-18T14:41:32Z blt joined #lisp
2015-04-18T14:53:10Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2015-04-18T14:53:30Z drmeister: What are some C++ libraries that Common Lisp users would want access to through Common Lisp?
2015-04-18T14:53:45Z drmeister: Qt? Unreal Engine?
2015-04-18T14:54:04Z drmeister: OpenCV?
2015-04-18T14:55:07Z SAL9000: drmeister: CAFFE comes to mind
2015-04-18T14:55:18Z SAL9000: deep learning library http://caffe.berkeleyvision.org/
2015-04-18T14:55:38Z drmeister: I'm writing my presentation for ELS and pitching the idea that Clasp can be used to develop FFI's for other Common Lisps
2015-04-18T14:56:14Z manuel__ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015-04-18T14:57:50Z drmeister: OpenCV is one that several people have come on and asked about.
2015-04-18T14:58:01Z Shinmera: Most game engines are written in C++, so all of those, I guess.
2015-04-18T14:58:58Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2015-04-18T14:59:36Z Shinmera can't think of anything else, unfortunately.
2015-04-18T15:00:42Z Xach: drmeister: yes, opencv is a frequenty one
2015-04-18T15:00:47Z Xach: so very frequenty
2015-04-18T15:01:13Z remi`bd quit (Quit: good afternoon)
2015-04-18T15:04:56Z zlrth` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T15:04:56Z zlrth quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T15:05:27Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2015-04-18T15:07:31Z yenda quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T15:09:42Z gnuian joined #lisp
2015-04-18T15:09:46Z gnuian quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-04-18T15:10:01Z gnuian joined #lisp
2015-04-18T15:10:16Z blt quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-04-18T15:10:39Z blt joined #lisp
2015-04-18T15:13:24Z temporary4242 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T15:13:41Z yenda joined #lisp
2015-04-18T15:15:23Z dxtr quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-04-18T15:19:47Z ndrei joined #lisp
2015-04-18T15:20:06Z blt quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-04-18T15:20:31Z blt joined #lisp
2015-04-18T15:21:43Z k-dawg joined #lisp
2015-04-18T15:22:12Z kobain joined #lisp
2015-04-18T15:22:38Z k-dawg quit (Client Quit)
2015-04-18T15:22:48Z kobain quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2015-04-18T15:23:07Z kobain joined #lisp
2015-04-18T15:23:50Z kobain quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2015-04-18T15:23:57Z k-dawg joined #lisp
2015-04-18T15:24:09Z kobain joined #lisp
2015-04-18T15:24:16Z k-dawg quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2015-04-18T15:24:50Z kobain quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2015-04-18T15:24:56Z k-dawg joined #lisp
2015-04-18T15:27:56Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2015-04-18T15:28:13Z blt left #lisp
2015-04-18T15:28:56Z milosn quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2015-04-18T15:33:45Z drmeister: You wish they'd just shut up about it already :-)
2015-04-18T15:34:13Z mbuf joined #lisp
2015-04-18T15:34:18Z drmeister: That's an unkindly thing for me to say.
2015-04-18T15:37:44Z manuel__ quit (Quit: manuel__)
2015-04-18T15:45:34Z Xach: i wish there was a good answer, like "someone did all the hard work and you just have to quickload xyz"
2015-04-18T15:46:56Z spockokt: we are all, standing on the shoulders of giants
2015-04-18T15:53:52Z sheilong joined #lisp
2015-04-18T15:55:52Z pt1 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T15:59:08Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-04-18T16:00:13Z happy-dude joined #lisp
2015-04-18T16:02:53Z temporary4242 quit
2015-04-18T16:09:53Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2015-04-18T16:10:24Z lemoinem quit (Read error: No route to host)
2015-04-18T16:10:36Z schaueho joined #lisp
2015-04-18T16:11:22Z axion: drmeister: ones without existing bindings?
2015-04-18T16:11:32Z drmeister: Yeah.
2015-04-18T16:11:32Z zadock quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-04-18T16:12:14Z drmeister: I'm making the case that clasp will significantly lower the barrier to creating bindings for other Common Lisps to C++ libraries
2015-04-18T16:12:22Z axion: drmeister: gstreamer gets asked about a lot
2015-04-18T16:12:53Z SAL9000: drmeister: what target audience are you trying to make that case to?
2015-04-18T16:13:01Z drmeister: Got it, thanks.
2015-04-18T16:13:07Z drmeister: SAL9000: The ELS audience
2015-04-18T16:13:25Z SAL9000: like... would they know about what's needed to create FFI bindings?
2015-04-18T16:14:01Z SAL9000: I have no idea of what kind of people attend ELS, other than that they probably have an interest in Lisp or related topics
2015-04-18T16:14:12Z drmeister: I don't know but they know that there aren't a lot of them around and that they are costly to develop and maintain.
2015-04-18T16:14:49Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2015-04-18T16:15:25Z mj-0 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T16:15:29Z lemoinem joined #lisp
2015-04-18T16:17:58Z balle: http://paste.lisp.org/display/147222 <-- can someone please tell me why it's complaining the upload_file "is not a binary input stream"?
2015-04-18T16:18:36Z agumonkey_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2015-04-18T16:19:22Z SAL9000: drmeister: maybe explain it as a refactoring problem of sorts? In other words, if a Lisp has C FFI, Clasp can help generate C wrappers for the C++ methods and CL code to wrap the FFI calls in CLOS if necessary
2015-04-18T16:19:51Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2015-04-18T16:21:30Z SAL9000: I'm assuming that most FFI systems don't natively support C++ at all
2015-04-18T16:21:48Z Bike: balle: it's the second with-open-file. you don't specify an :element-type so it defaults to character or something.
2015-04-18T16:22:01Z schaueho quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-04-18T16:22:02Z drmeister: SAL9000: That's true but very technical.  I just want to tell them that it is now possible - if they have questions - they can ask them.
2015-04-18T16:22:28Z drmeister: SAL9000: You are correct - that's why clasp exists.
2015-04-18T16:23:39Z SAL9000: actually, CPython has partial C++ support -- might be another good FFI-generation target, especially given it's recent popularity.
2015-04-18T16:24:49Z agumonkey joined #lisp
2015-04-18T16:25:51Z balle: Bike: oh my... sometimes i am sooo blind thx! :)
2015-04-18T16:28:38Z balle: Bike: ah and i had to remove the (* 512) hm thought this way i could read in chunks?
2015-04-18T16:28:42Z ndrei joined #lisp
2015-04-18T16:29:15Z Bike: balle: with the * it'll read one byte and multiply it by 512, of course. if you want to read chunks use read-sequence.
2015-04-18T16:30:18Z Shinmera: axion: drmeister: gstreamer is C.
2015-04-18T16:30:32Z drmeister: We can do C
2015-04-18T16:30:41Z Shinmera: Sure, but so can other lisps already.
2015-04-18T16:30:50Z Shinmera: *other impls
2015-04-18T16:31:13Z SAL9000: can other lisps do it without manual writing of import/export statements?
2015-04-18T16:31:25Z drmeister: Yeah!
2015-04-18T16:31:28Z scymtym_: gstreamer may be easier/better done via gobject introspection
2015-04-18T16:31:55Z drmeister: scymtym_: Could you elaborate?
2015-04-18T16:32:25Z oleo__ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-04-18T16:32:48Z gnuian quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T16:32:53Z scymtym_: projects like gtk, gstreamer etc are based on gobject which is an object system for C
2015-04-18T16:33:46Z linux_dream joined #lisp
2015-04-18T16:33:49Z scymtym_: it can be used (in combination with certain annotations, i think) to generate enough meta-data about libraries to automatically generate bindings for those libraries
2015-04-18T16:34:06Z theseb joined #lisp
2015-04-18T16:34:13Z Shinmera: SAL9000: What do you mean by "import/export statements"?
2015-04-18T16:34:27Z scymtym_: afaik, the python and javascript bindings for gnome-related software are made this way
2015-04-18T16:35:04Z SAL9000: Shinmera: "import" like (cffi:bind-thing "int" "the-thing" "float arg") ;;; probably not the actual api
2015-04-18T16:35:24Z SAL9000: and "export" as in the other language having to do special things, like clbind or luabind
2015-04-18T16:35:24Z Shinmera: SAL9000: there's c2ffi and cl-autowrap.
2015-04-18T16:35:29Z SAL9000: or boost::python
2015-04-18T16:35:49Z nikki93 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T16:35:53Z SAL9000: ...how did I not find this.
2015-04-18T16:36:38Z Bike: hm. this would have been good to know about a few months ago.
2015-04-18T16:37:30Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T16:38:34Z SAL9000: drmeister: has c2ffi pretty much grabbed clasp's auto-FFI niche already?
2015-04-18T16:40:07Z jasom: c2ffi doesn't do C++, does it?
2015-04-18T16:40:23Z SAL9000: if I'm reading it right, yes it does
2015-04-18T16:41:06Z Shinmera: "This is a tool for extracting definitions from C, C++, and Objective C headers for use with foreign function call interfaces."
2015-04-18T16:41:28Z nikki93 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T16:42:44Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-04-18T16:43:16Z drmeister: SAL9000: It may have but I don't know enough about it.   Clasp has tight integration with Clang and complete access to the Clang AST.  How does c2ffi manage that.   If c2ffi does capture that niche then FFI generate is just one of clasp's features.
2015-04-18T16:44:07Z linux_dream: hi guys. anyone has experience with python programming? Basically I've written a small program in python and for fun I'd like to translate it into common lisp (I've never programmed in CL yet). I'm wondering how hard that would be
2015-04-18T16:44:27Z Bike: probably pretty easy, if it's not pathologic python.
2015-04-18T16:44:49Z linux_dream: well maybe it is... I'm a newbie
2015-04-18T16:44:50Z pnpuff joined #lisp
2015-04-18T16:44:55Z linux_dream: the code is there: https://github.com/arbolis/pythonstuff/blob/master/goproblem_random/gorandom_1.py
2015-04-18T16:45:06Z pjb: linux_dream: just use cl-python.
2015-04-18T16:45:15Z Ukari joined #lisp
2015-04-18T16:45:28Z linux_dream: I'd like to translate the code from line 1 to 49
2015-04-18T16:45:42Z xinau joined #lisp
2015-04-18T16:45:45Z drmeister: SAL9000: Take a look at c2ffi,  you feel it is a rehash to develop an FFI generator then maybe we should look in other directions.
2015-04-18T16:45:46Z linux_dream: pjb I would like to learn some lisp.  do you recommend me cl-python?
2015-04-18T16:46:14Z axion: drmeister: sounds like a question for oGMo
2015-04-18T16:46:20Z Bike: should be easy to translate
2015-04-18T16:46:20Z SAL9000: linux_dream: http://gigamonkeys.com/book/
2015-04-18T16:46:25Z Bike: use random, aref, loop, bam
2015-04-18T16:46:40Z linux_dream: ok thanks Bike.  I'll have to check out what aref is
2015-04-18T16:47:30Z Bike: and read that book
2015-04-18T16:47:33Z drmeister: axion: I've talked to him briefly about it.
2015-04-18T16:47:39Z pjb: linux_dream: I'd recommend clpython to let lisp translate your python automatically.
2015-04-18T16:47:53Z linux_dream: haha pjb but I'd lose the fun
2015-04-18T16:48:01Z hiyosi quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2015-04-18T16:48:02Z pjb: linux_dream: if you want to learn CL, then let's ignore your python skills.  Have a look at http://cliki.net/Online+Tutorial
2015-04-18T16:48:11Z linux_dream: ok
2015-04-18T16:48:33Z ndrei joined #lisp
2015-04-18T16:48:45Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T16:52:41Z pnpuff left #lisp
2015-04-18T16:54:08Z cadadar joined #lisp
2015-04-18T16:57:58Z madnificent quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015-04-18T16:58:01Z mj-0 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2015-04-18T16:59:29Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2015-04-18T17:00:18Z Patzy joined #lisp
2015-04-18T17:00:30Z BWV988 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T17:04:40Z BWV988 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2015-04-18T17:04:51Z cpc26 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T17:05:29Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T17:09:33Z cpc26 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-04-18T17:10:14Z zacts quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2015-04-18T17:11:06Z balle: linux_dream: for me (as a python programming at my daytime job) the practical common lisp book was not a good start point (but a very good second book to read). http://psg.com/~dlamkins/sl/contents.html <-- sucessful lisp got me started
2015-04-18T17:11:16Z gingerale quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2015-04-18T17:11:32Z oleo joined #lisp
2015-04-18T17:11:38Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2015-04-18T17:13:26Z dkcl: linux_dream: I liked Touretzky's book, myself, seeing as Common Lisp was my first language
2015-04-18T17:13:38Z linux_dream: ok thanks balle
2015-04-18T17:13:40Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2015-04-18T17:13:47Z dkcl: It's freely available online
2015-04-18T17:13:48Z linux_dream: thanks dkcl
2015-04-18T17:14:10Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T17:14:11Z dkcl: linux_dream: https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/
2015-04-18T17:14:50Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T17:15:06Z DrCode joined #lisp
2015-04-18T17:15:07Z linux_dream: perfect
2015-04-18T17:15:32Z cadadar joined #lisp
2015-04-18T17:16:44Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2015-04-18T17:19:15Z manuel__ quit (Quit: manuel__)
2015-04-18T17:20:09Z _sjs joined #lisp
2015-04-18T17:22:57Z flash- joined #lisp
2015-04-18T17:24:47Z mrkkrp: Hello. Is it OK to announce here a modest Common Lisp project that may be interesting to multilingual CL hackers? Wouldn't it be off-topic?
2015-04-18T17:25:43Z linux_dream: looks like the right place to me...
2015-04-18T17:26:51Z mrkkrp: Here it is, then: https://github.com/mrkkrp/shtookovina
2015-04-18T17:27:09Z mrkkrp: Maybe it can be useful for someone…
2015-04-18T17:28:17Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2015-04-18T17:28:20Z killmaster joined #lisp
2015-04-18T17:29:46Z dkcl: Did you *really* have to go for "Шτookωвiнα"?
2015-04-18T17:30:33Z ndrei joined #lisp
2015-04-18T17:30:36Z dkcl: Also, you missed the (ql:add-to-init-file) bit in your little Quicklisp guide
2015-04-18T17:31:40Z mrkkrp: Well, it's strange name, I know. But french project is called Shtooka, and that is "thing" (штука) in Russian, so I've chosen something similar...
2015-04-18T17:33:05Z dkcl: Sure, I know all the alphabets you used for that name. Most people don't and will likely see it as pointless fancy
2015-04-18T17:34:01Z mrkkrp: dkcl, that's a good point. Anyway you don't have to write it often...
2015-04-18T17:34:33Z mrkkrp: shtookovina can be used as well
2015-04-18T17:35:19Z mrkkrp: dkcl, about (ql:add-to-init-file) — you don't have to add it to init file, it should compile without it
2015-04-18T17:36:01Z Kanae quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-04-18T17:39:02Z puchacz joined #lisp
2015-04-18T17:41:38Z dkcl: The first time, sure
2015-04-18T17:42:57Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-04-18T17:44:51Z bizarrefish joined #lisp
2015-04-18T17:45:06Z bizarrefish: Hi all :)
2015-04-18T17:46:46Z mrkkrp: dkcl, you're right, fixing it…
2015-04-18T17:46:48Z madnificent joined #lisp
2015-04-18T17:47:08Z zeitue joined #lisp
2015-04-18T17:48:01Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2015-04-18T17:50:34Z mbuf quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-04-18T17:50:56Z Pastaf joined #lisp
2015-04-18T18:01:20Z kobain joined #lisp
2015-04-18T18:03:57Z mbuf joined #lisp
2015-04-18T18:04:11Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T18:05:39Z linux_dream quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-04-18T18:06:21Z madnificent quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-04-18T18:07:25Z madnificent joined #lisp
2015-04-18T18:08:01Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-04-18T18:10:36Z CEnnis91 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2015-04-18T18:11:39Z pt1 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T18:14:49Z Pastaf quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-04-18T18:15:12Z balle: heck i am now hacking common lisp for nearly 9 hours today... i think i go for the 10 :)
2015-04-18T18:15:50Z marsjaninzmarsa joined #lisp
2015-04-18T18:16:48Z vap1 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-04-18T18:18:01Z mbuf quit (Quit: Ex-Chat)
2015-04-18T18:19:01Z madnificent quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2015-04-18T18:19:12Z Pastaf joined #lisp
2015-04-18T18:20:47Z CEnnis91 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T18:21:08Z kori left #lisp
2015-04-18T18:21:50Z skulibj joined #lisp
2015-04-18T18:22:55Z mrkkrp quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T18:24:05Z mrkkrp joined #lisp
2015-04-18T18:25:39Z milosn joined #lisp
2015-04-18T18:28:57Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2015-04-18T18:29:13Z ebrasca joined #lisp
2015-04-18T18:29:26Z madnificent joined #lisp
2015-04-18T18:40:17Z manuel__ quit (Quit: manuel__)
2015-04-18T18:42:26Z mrkkrp quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T18:42:42Z pjb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-04-18T18:43:27Z pjb joined #lisp
2015-04-18T18:43:41Z zlrth joined #lisp
2015-04-18T18:45:04Z ndrei joined #lisp
2015-04-18T18:46:43Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T18:46:54Z pjb: dkcl: not more than hunchentoot.
2015-04-18T18:47:21Z pjb: shtookovina is a perfectly good name, and look, I've already memorized it!
2015-04-18T18:49:09Z dkcl: shtookovina is fine, but I find the version with mixed alphabets is a bit odd
2015-04-18T18:49:16Z dkcl: Haha
2015-04-18T18:50:59Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-04-18T18:51:08Z PuercoPop: Any reason why non-standard class-options are passed to the meta-class unevaluated?
2015-04-18T18:52:34Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2015-04-18T18:53:07Z BitPuffin joined #lisp
2015-04-18T18:53:21Z Kanae joined #lisp
2015-04-18T18:55:31Z shka joined #lisp
2015-04-18T18:55:47Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T18:56:37Z madnificent: pjb: can we use shootkovina instead?  that's easier
2015-04-18T18:56:53Z shka: good evening everyone
2015-04-18T18:57:00Z spockokt: 'lo shka
2015-04-18T18:58:42Z futpib joined #lisp
2015-04-18T18:59:40Z Longlius quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T19:00:03Z shka: i'm looking for simple library to calculate derivative and present in minimal form
2015-04-18T19:00:15Z shka: not sure what to choose
2015-04-18T19:00:56Z zeitue quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2015-04-18T19:01:10Z shka: there is suprisingly high number of mathematical packages that seems to provide this, and not sure what would be fine
2015-04-18T19:01:39Z Bike: it was an early AI thing. lots of programs in PAIP.
2015-04-18T19:03:31Z shka: Bike: hi, well i can write something myself since it is not rocket science, but quality of my code somewhat suboptimal
2015-04-18T19:03:55Z Bike: just trying to explain your surprise.
2015-04-18T19:04:14Z shka: oh, right
2015-04-18T19:04:34Z shka: after parsing it again, indeed you are right
2015-04-18T19:05:04Z shka: well, maybe i should write it
2015-04-18T19:05:11Z shka: at least it will be fun
2015-04-18T19:05:53Z shka: anyway
2015-04-18T19:06:12Z shka: what are you guys hacking currently?
2015-04-18T19:08:18Z pjb: madnificent: sht is a single letter ;-)
2015-04-18T19:08:45Z pjb: shka: what about using maxima?  IIRC there was some discussion about making it into a library.
2015-04-18T19:10:47Z shka: pjb: it is possible
2015-04-18T19:10:49Z Xach: i am hacking the slides to my talk on monday
2015-04-18T19:10:58Z Xach: and the script
2015-04-18T19:10:59Z shka: Xach: good luck!
2015-04-18T19:11:15Z Xach: thanks. i think i am done for now. off to the airport in an hour.
2015-04-18T19:11:30Z Xach: Xof: any chance of using a printer beforehand?
2015-04-18T19:11:44Z shka: recordings will be online, right?
2015-04-18T19:14:33Z zeitue joined #lisp
2015-04-18T19:14:35Z k-dawg quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2015-04-18T19:15:15Z codefo joined #lisp
2015-04-18T19:16:14Z Xach: shka: Xof wrote "hopefully, but no guarantees"
2015-04-18T19:16:20Z Ukari: Is object-oriented important is lisp?The OO system in lisp is hard for me to understand though I could understand OO well in language like Java or php
2015-04-18T19:16:32Z _sjs quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-04-18T19:16:55Z Xach: Ukari: you can use a lot of lisp without knowing much about the object system. you can do good things when you learn about it.
2015-04-18T19:17:04Z Xach: Ukari: it is not like java and php. it is a different style.
2015-04-18T19:18:25Z shka: Ukari: though, clos is powerfull
2015-04-18T19:18:26Z shka: like
2015-04-18T19:18:29Z shka: extreamly
2015-04-18T19:19:01Z pjb: Ukari: it's just that sometime, you will be fed up writing string-doodle vector-doodle my-object-doodle, my-specialized-object-doodle, and you will write a generic doodle function with methods specialized on the various classes.
2015-04-18T19:19:03Z Ukari: Xach:now when I learn lisp,should i skip the OO chapter in  the book,just for now
2015-04-18T19:19:20Z pjb: Ukari: it's really trivial.
2015-04-18T19:19:49Z pjb: Ukari: and notice also that already, defstruct has single inheritance, so you won't be able to do much by skipping it.
2015-04-18T19:20:30Z shka: Ukari: oh common
2015-04-18T19:20:50Z shka: common lisp object system is really, really, really awesome
2015-04-18T19:20:56Z shka: and i'm total fanboy :P
2015-04-18T19:21:02Z Xof: Xach: I should be able to print something if you send it to me
2015-04-18T19:21:16Z Xof: one copy?  90 copies?
2015-04-18T19:21:37Z pjb: Ukari: http://www.aiai.ed.ac.uk/~jeff/clos-guide.html
2015-04-18T19:22:10Z shka: Ukari: btw, what book do you use?
2015-04-18T19:22:16Z Ukari: pjb:thanks,i will read it
2015-04-18T19:22:56Z Ukari: shka:"ANSI Common Lisp"
2015-04-18T19:22:57Z Shinmera: Ukari: I wrote https://reader.tymoon.eu/article/268 which might be of interest to you too.
2015-04-18T19:24:35Z karswell` joined #lisp
2015-04-18T19:24:45Z shka: Ukari: i enjoyed chapter from practical common lisp about clos
2015-04-18T19:25:00Z madnificent wouldn't call CLOS trivial, it's a new way of thinking
2015-04-18T19:25:11Z shka: maybe you will like it as well
2015-04-18T19:25:32Z shka: madnificent: i would call it: extended way of thinking
2015-04-18T19:25:48Z shka: basicly one level above your usual C++ code
2015-04-18T19:25:53Z shka: or perhaps two
2015-04-18T19:26:38Z madnificent: shka: fair, but it is exhausting for your brain.  suddenly you do things differently and all sorts of options become possible.  (only later will you then apparently realise that there's way more levels of CLOS awesome above it)
2015-04-18T19:27:13Z shka: well, that's why i'm using common lisp
2015-04-18T19:27:34Z shka: i love that feeling when you suddenly realise that there is other way of thinking
2015-04-18T19:28:04Z shka: lisp dope ;-)
2015-04-18T19:29:11Z nikki93 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T19:30:50Z shka: Ukari: i encourage you to learn how clos works, it will make you a better OO programmer
2015-04-18T19:31:49Z karswell` is now known as karswell
2015-04-18T19:34:08Z jackdaniel: minion: memo for emaczen: that's weird - I have subscribed from other mail address, an everything gone flawlsessly within 5 minutes. Maybe try to subscribe again and doublecheck your mail address?
2015-04-18T19:34:09Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell emaczen when he/she/it next speaks.
2015-04-18T19:34:09Z minion: jackdaniel, memo from emaczen: Can you add me to the ECL mailing list? I've signed up but I have never received the verification/authentication email. I'm getting weird gcc errors and think it would be a good idea to post this to the mailing list. Thanks.
2015-04-18T19:35:08Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-04-18T19:37:17Z jackdaniel: minion: memo for emaczen: if it doesn't work, I'll contact list owner and ask about transferring ownership and/or will contact sourceforge staff, in the meantime please send email to me (jackdaniel at hellsgate dot pl), and I'll forward it to mailing list. Sorry for late response, I have limited access to my computer right now.
2015-04-18T19:37:17Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell emaczen when he/she/it next speaks.
2015-04-18T19:37:46Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T19:39:23Z jleija joined #lisp
2015-04-18T19:40:46Z k-stz: Ukari: I second reading the practical common lisp chapter, it shows how simple the basics of clos are and it approaches it the whole topic from a usually familiar angle: oop in java iirc
2015-04-18T19:41:22Z k-stz: here: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/object-reorientation-classes.html
2015-04-18T19:41:50Z k-stz: I personally knew nothing about clos and was a beginner at cl and I understood it quickly thanks to it
2015-04-18T19:46:38Z Xach: Xof: one copy. i'd like to print any revisions of my script so i can refer to it.
2015-04-18T19:47:05Z Xach: Xof: I don't know how to make keynote show me a script along with the slides. maybe if i figure it out i won't need to print.
2015-04-18T19:47:24Z Xach: Xof: I now realize i have no apple adapter for a projector...
2015-04-18T19:50:13Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-04-18T19:54:20Z urandom__ joined #lisp
2015-04-18T19:55:22Z Jubb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-04-18T19:56:45Z paul0 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T19:57:23Z ggole quit
2015-04-18T20:01:55Z a2015_ joined #lisp
2015-04-18T20:02:12Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2015-04-18T20:02:32Z pchrist quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T20:02:55Z alusion quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2)
2015-04-18T20:09:29Z protist_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-04-18T20:10:43Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T20:12:22Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2015-04-18T20:16:14Z madnific` joined #lisp
2015-04-18T20:16:32Z dim realises again that he's not going to make it to ELS, sadly
2015-04-18T20:18:25Z shka quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2015-04-18T20:18:25Z madnificent quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-04-18T20:23:53Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2015-04-18T20:25:10Z angavrilov_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T20:28:12Z paul0 left #lisp
2015-04-18T20:28:15Z paul0 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T20:29:05Z pchrist joined #lisp
2015-04-18T20:29:19Z bizarrefish quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T20:35:45Z White_Flame joined #lisp
2015-04-18T20:35:58Z dilated_dinosaur quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-04-18T20:39:07Z LiamH joined #lisp
2015-04-18T20:45:08Z bizarrefish joined #lisp
2015-04-18T20:45:31Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds)
2015-04-18T20:47:33Z paul0 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T20:50:42Z linux_dream joined #lisp
2015-04-18T20:51:03Z linux_dream: what's wrong with this simple code?   (let (n 19))
2015-04-18T20:51:11Z linux_dream: I want to set n equal to 19
2015-04-18T20:51:20Z k-stz: (let ((n 19)) <body>)
2015-04-18T20:51:37Z linux_dream: and what should body be?  I tried several things already
2015-04-18T20:51:45Z Bike: whatever you want to execute while n is 19
2015-04-18T20:51:53Z k-stz: like this: (let ((n 19)) (print n))
2015-04-18T20:51:57Z linux_dream: oh thank you.... but for example
2015-04-18T20:52:02Z linux_dream: yes this print didn't work for me
2015-04-18T20:52:07Z linux_dream: let me retry
2015-04-18T20:52:47Z linux_dream: CL-USER> ; Define the board size  ; No value
2015-04-18T20:52:48Z oleo: according to the spec even (let (n 19) <body>) should be possible.....
2015-04-18T20:52:54Z Bike: you should be more specific than "didn't work" if you want good advice. for example, if you got an error like "19 is not a symbol, and cannot be used as a variable" then you actually typed (let (n 19) (print n)).
2015-04-18T20:52:58Z linux_dream: doesn't seem to work for me
2015-04-18T20:53:15Z Bike: define the... what? just type "(let ((n 19)) (print n))" in your repl.
2015-04-18T20:53:39Z linux_dream: well my first line starts with ;     a comment.  my 2nd line is (let....)
2015-04-18T20:53:53Z Bike: the repl works one line at a time.
2015-04-18T20:54:08Z Bike: if you type in a comment and run it it will return nothing, because it is a comment.
2015-04-18T20:54:14Z A205B064 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T20:54:22Z linux_dream: when I didn't select the comment to evaluate
2015-04-18T20:54:27Z linux_dream: I selected only the 2nd line
2015-04-18T20:54:29Z oleo: (let (n 19) (print n)) is error
2015-04-18T20:54:39Z oleo: (let ((n 19)) (print n)) succeeds
2015-04-18T20:54:40Z Bike: just type the line all by itself and hit enter. forget the comment.
2015-04-18T20:55:04Z oleo: the error message is 19 is not a symbol.....
2015-04-18T20:55:09Z oleo: in the former case
2015-04-18T20:55:09Z linux_dream: I removed the 1st line.  now I have only : (let (n 19) (print n))    and this returns:   CL-USER> ; No value
2015-04-18T20:55:28Z Bike: did you leave in a comma
2015-04-18T20:55:39Z Bike: er, semicolon.
2015-04-18T20:55:44Z linux_dream: no
2015-04-18T20:56:04Z Bike: Is this in SLIME?
2015-04-18T20:56:26Z linux_dream: yes
2015-04-18T20:56:31Z linux_dream: emacs + slime mode
2015-04-18T20:56:41Z linux_dream: I write code in a  buffer and evaluate with C-c C-j
2015-04-18T20:56:46Z Bike: Are you entering the let at the line that says CL-USER>, and not in another... right. of course.
2015-04-18T20:56:58Z Bike: I want you to go to the repl and type in this line and hit enter. Forget C-c C-j for a moment.
2015-04-18T20:57:13Z bizarrefish quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2015-04-18T20:57:19Z linux_dream: ; in: LET (N 19)
2015-04-18T20:57:19Z linux_dream: ;     (LET (N 19)
2015-04-18T20:57:19Z linux_dream: ;       (PRINT N))
2015-04-18T20:57:19Z linux_dream: ;
2015-04-18T20:57:19Z linux_dream: ; caught ERROR:
2015-04-18T20:57:20Z linux_dream: ;   19 is not a symbol, and cannot be used as a variable.
2015-04-18T20:57:26Z oleo: jep
2015-04-18T20:57:37Z Bike: Okay, you typed the wrong thing, the thing we said not to type five minutes ago.
2015-04-18T20:58:14Z Bike: I want you to type (let ((n 19)) (print n)). you can even copy paste it. see how it has more parentheses? they're important.
2015-04-18T20:58:16Z linux_dream: sorry
2015-04-18T20:58:38Z linux_dream: yes this works now, thank you!
2015-04-18T20:58:40Z k-stz: linux_dream: see the two parens (let ((two 'parens)) two)
2015-04-18T20:58:44Z linux_dream: yes
2015-04-18T20:59:15Z k-stz: this is due to using more bindings (let ((one 1) (two 2)) (list one two))
2015-04-18T20:59:20Z k-stz: ok
2015-04-18T20:59:37Z Bike: probably C-c C-j wasn't working because the cursor was in the wrong spot. i don't usually use it, so i couldn't tell you.
2015-04-18T21:00:22Z linux_dream: Ok I see C-c C-j,  I need to put the cursor at the end of the line
2015-04-18T21:00:24Z Bike: of course, C-c C-j seems to copy the code into the repl buffer anyway, so you should be able to see what you just evaluated.
2015-04-18T21:00:50Z linux_dream: does C-c C-j evaluates a single line or all what is above the cursor too?
2015-04-18T21:01:10Z Bike: Probably a single s-expression.
2015-04-18T21:01:21Z Bike: yes.
2015-04-18T21:01:23Z flash- quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2015-04-18T21:01:30Z linux_dream: indeed
2015-04-18T21:01:54Z linux_dream: oh... so that's not really what I expected from it
2015-04-18T21:02:21Z linux_dream: what's a good set up to write code in a buffer and getting the output in another buffer?
2015-04-18T21:02:27Z linux_dream: saving the file as .lisp and loading it?
2015-04-18T21:02:35Z Bike: Sure.
2015-04-18T21:02:38Z linux_dream: thanks
2015-04-18T21:02:46Z spockokt: you could do C-c C-l to load a file into the repl
2015-04-18T21:02:53Z Bike: Usually I write long functions in a file, compile and load it, and then evaluate function calls in the repl.
2015-04-18T21:02:58Z Jubb joined #lisp
2015-04-18T21:03:17Z Bike: Like I have (defun primes-upto (n) ...) in a file, and then run (primes-upto 1000) in the repl.
2015-04-18T21:03:31Z linux_dream: I see
2015-04-18T21:04:51Z linux_dream: and in my code if I want to start a somehow big program (say over 60 lines) and want to set n equal to 19 at the beginning, do I really need to put my whole program into the (let ((n 19) ...huge program...)   ?
2015-04-18T21:05:08Z spockokt: you could use defparameter or defvar to define a global
2015-04-18T21:05:28Z linux_dream: what about (setq n 19) ?
2015-04-18T21:05:39Z k-stz: linux_dream: try (defparameter *n* 19) instead, or have it be a function parameter (defun foo (n) ..)
2015-04-18T21:05:56Z linux_dream: ok
2015-04-18T21:06:18Z spockokt: you could use setq/setf outside of any block and it will set that symbol to whatever value you give it
2015-04-18T21:06:23Z spockokt: but best to use defparameter or defvar
2015-04-18T21:06:49Z linux_dream: ok thanks
2015-04-18T21:07:03Z Bike: linux_dream: By the way, please don't paste multiple lines into this chat like you did up there. We have paste.lisp.org for lengthy things.
2015-04-18T21:07:28Z linux_dream: fine, I won't do that in future
2015-04-18T21:07:49Z codefo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2015-04-18T21:08:50Z blt joined #lisp
2015-04-18T21:10:44Z pjb: linux_dream: you should NOT write big or "huge" programs!
2015-04-18T21:10:49Z pjb: linux_dream: only write small functions!
2015-04-18T21:11:37Z pjb: So you NEVER write: (let ((n 19) ...huge program...) , first because the parentheses don't balance, and second because it should be: (let ((n 19)) <small-program>).
2015-04-18T21:11:47Z linux_dream: yeah that seemed weird if I had to put a whole program inside a single list
2015-04-18T21:12:10Z pjb: it is not weird, there's no limit (beyond what your implementation can stand).
2015-04-18T21:12:39Z Bike: if you're used to programming in C++ you may be used to having all variables for a function be declared in the same place and persist through a very long scope. however with let it's a lot easier to keep track of where variables are actually needed.
2015-04-18T21:13:07Z linux_dream: no I'm not used  to C++
2015-04-18T21:13:19Z linux_dream: newbie in python. starting lisp today
2015-04-18T21:13:26Z Bike: i ment to say "C or C++ or whatever".
2015-04-18T21:13:30Z linux_dream: ok
2015-04-18T21:13:41Z pjb: including python.
2015-04-18T21:15:41Z gniourf_gniourf joined #lisp
2015-04-18T21:16:03Z spockokt: linux_dream: are you familiar with the idea of "scoping" ?
2015-04-18T21:16:44Z linux_dream: no
2015-04-18T21:17:11Z spockokt: hm. you may want to read into it, it will definitely help you in your understanding of lisp (and programming in general)
2015-04-18T21:19:05Z cpc26 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T21:19:17Z cpc26 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T21:19:57Z mrSpec quit (Quit: mrSpec)
2015-04-18T21:20:00Z linux_dream: ok
2015-04-18T21:20:49Z linux_dream quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-04-18T21:21:08Z ajtulloch joined #lisp
2015-04-18T21:21:20Z clop2 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2015-04-18T21:26:54Z codefo joined #lisp
2015-04-18T21:27:09Z puchacz quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2015-04-18T21:29:10Z XachFu joined #lisp
2015-04-18T21:32:07Z lisper29 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T21:38:04Z JJaskologist quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds)
2015-04-18T21:42:33Z hiyosi joined #lisp
2015-04-18T21:44:04Z mateuszb quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2015-04-18T21:44:22Z mateuszb joined #lisp
2015-04-18T21:44:28Z mateuszb quit (Client Quit)
2015-04-18T21:45:05Z BWV988 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T21:45:56Z Jaskologist joined #lisp
2015-04-18T21:47:07Z mateuszb joined #lisp
2015-04-18T21:50:43Z manuel__ joined #lisp
2015-04-18T21:50:56Z tajjada quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015-04-18T21:53:29Z tali713 quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2015-04-18T21:55:22Z Xof: Xach: there will surely be someone present with the right apple adapter
2015-04-18T21:55:33Z Xof: if not, we do have a media centre with a million dongles
2015-04-18T21:55:39Z Xof: we'll find something
2015-04-18T21:56:37Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 248 seconds)
2015-04-18T21:56:51Z spockokt: (format t "~a~%" dongle-joke)
2015-04-18T21:57:52Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2015-04-18T21:57:55Z ziocroc quit (Quit: ziocroc)
2015-04-18T21:59:53Z urandom__ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2015-04-18T22:02:24Z codefo quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2015-04-18T22:03:57Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-04-18T22:04:42Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T22:04:47Z ebrasca` joined #lisp
2015-04-18T22:05:39Z sunwukong` quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-04-18T22:06:36Z Vutral joined #lisp
2015-04-18T22:08:03Z ajtulloc_ joined #lisp
2015-04-18T22:08:39Z vdamewood joined #lisp
2015-04-18T22:11:19Z ajtulloch quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-04-18T22:12:05Z bjorkintosh quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-04-18T22:14:21Z BitPuffin joined #lisp
2015-04-18T22:14:36Z farhaven quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2015-04-18T22:16:10Z blt quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds)
2015-04-18T22:19:29Z remi`bd joined #lisp
2015-04-18T22:24:52Z farhaven joined #lisp
2015-04-18T22:25:43Z blt joined #lisp
2015-04-18T22:25:55Z dkcl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2015-04-18T22:26:15Z dkcl joined #lisp
2015-04-18T22:31:18Z linux_dream joined #lisp
2015-04-18T22:32:14Z oleo quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-04-18T22:35:33Z badkins joined #lisp
2015-04-18T22:37:25Z peterhil joined #lisp
2015-04-18T22:37:25Z oleo joined #lisp
2015-04-18T22:37:56Z balle quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2015-04-18T22:47:05Z linux_dream quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-04-18T22:48:19Z linux_dream joined #lisp
2015-04-18T22:48:52Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T22:50:24Z clop2 joined #lisp
2015-04-18T22:51:50Z j4cknewt joined #lisp
2015-04-18T22:57:45Z tajjada joined #lisp
2015-04-18T23:02:11Z optikalmouse joined #lisp
2015-04-18T23:04:50Z BWV988 quit (Quit: Page closed)
2015-04-18T23:05:31Z nell joined #lisp
2015-04-18T23:05:38Z rak[2] joined #lisp
2015-04-18T23:06:50Z White_Flame quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds)
2015-04-18T23:07:13Z nell is now known as aluison
2015-04-18T23:07:16Z aluison is now known as alusion
2015-04-18T23:11:37Z manuel__ quit (Quit: manuel__)
2015-04-18T23:11:39Z ehu quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2015-04-18T23:16:20Z blt quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1)
2015-04-18T23:17:40Z rak[2] quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T23:17:48Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds)
2015-04-18T23:18:59Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2015-04-18T23:19:04Z Pastaf quit (Quit: Leaving)
2015-04-18T23:25:34Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。)
2015-04-18T23:28:48Z futpib quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-04-18T23:33:52Z ered quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T23:35:11Z lisper29 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2015-04-18T23:35:46Z Stratege_____ joined #lisp
2015-04-18T23:38:35Z Stratege____ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2015-04-18T23:40:36Z CEnnis91 quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2015-04-18T23:41:18Z bjorkintosh joined #lisp
2015-04-18T23:42:01Z remi`bd quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2015-04-18T23:43:39Z dilated_dinosaur joined #lisp
2015-04-18T23:47:01Z ajtulloch joined #lisp
2015-04-18T23:47:17Z rak[2] joined #lisp
2015-04-18T23:49:31Z vdamewood quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"])
2015-04-18T23:50:29Z ajtulloc_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)