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(-; 2015-03-18T00:59:23Z jasom: I lean towards httperf; siege is okay, but it's easy to accidentally benchmark your client rather than your server with it, as it's a touch slow. 2015-03-18T00:59:46Z jasom: wrk seemed fine when I benchmarked some improvements I submitted to woo 2015-03-18T01:02:05Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-18T01:03:33Z jasom: With many real-world applications, you should reach a point where the http server is never the long-pole in the tent and at that point most of the improved speed is just vanity. I still like that woo is so fast as it's an easy way to refute "lisp is slow" 2015-03-18T01:04:21Z jasom: doesn't doo much for "lisp is big" though as nodejs does use less ram per connection than woo; still probably good enough even for cloud hosting though. 2015-03-18T01:04:34Z jasom: anyway, got to go 2015-03-18T01:05:20Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-03-18T01:06:09Z nyef: jasom: Thank you. 2015-03-18T01:21:44Z ebrasca quit (Quit: ebrasca) 2015-03-18T01:22:12Z k-dawg joined #lisp 2015-03-18T01:28:24Z pnpuff joined #lisp 2015-03-18T01:31:02Z pnpuff quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-18T01:33:21Z edgar-rft joined #lisp 2015-03-18T01:34:07Z ln joined #lisp 2015-03-18T01:38:54Z jumblerg joined #lisp 2015-03-18T01:41:59Z resttime joined #lisp 2015-03-18T01:42:49Z f-a joined #lisp 2015-03-18T01:43:30Z f-a: am I correct in saying that lisps like picolisp and newlisp do *not* support closures? 2015-03-18T01:44:11Z akkad: f-a http://software-lab.de/doc/faq.html#closures 2015-03-18T01:44:12Z scymtym joined #lisp 2015-03-18T01:44:47Z f-a: thanks akkad 2015-03-18T01:45:47Z bb010g joined #lisp 2015-03-18T01:46:07Z cluck` is now known as cluck 2015-03-18T01:50:02Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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The information has got to be there somewhere. 2015-03-18T02:03:17Z Bicyclidine: i looked at abcl, i don't think it even maintains type information 2015-03-18T02:04:09Z primenum joined #lisp 2015-03-18T02:04:19Z pillton: clisp's environment is some sort of list and array. 2015-03-18T02:04:59Z ln left #lisp 2015-03-18T02:07:18Z linux_dream joined #lisp 2015-03-18T02:07:27Z Bicyclidine: oh, heh, i remmeber when somebody came around here with a horrible macro bug that turned out to be due to their assuming environments were self evaluating 2015-03-18T02:09:49Z rvirding: How can I get CL to print the raw data structure? I want to see (quote a) not 'a 2015-03-18T02:10:16Z Bicyclidine: try letting *print-pretty* be nil 2015-03-18T02:10:53Z Bicyclidine: (let ((*print-pretty* nil)) (print ''a)) => (QUOTE A), hopefully 2015-03-18T02:12:38Z wolf_mozart: most borng langauge ever 2015-03-18T02:13:25Z Bicyclidine quit (Read error: No route to host) 2015-03-18T02:13:31Z rvirding: ty, that did the trick 2015-03-18T02:15:15Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2015-03-18T02:15:51Z bcoburn`_v joined #lisp 2015-03-18T02:18:22Z bcoburn` quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-18T02:25:44Z kcj joined #lisp 2015-03-18T02:27:51Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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It bills itself as the "Ultimate collection macro ..." 2015-03-18T03:28:35Z antonv quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-18T03:28:45Z nyef: drmeister: SBCL has it as well. 2015-03-18T03:29:00Z nyef: drmeister: It's a bit bizarre, really. 2015-03-18T03:29:00Z drmeister: What does it do? 2015-03-18T03:29:20Z nyef: I don't know if there's a more advanced usage, but the basic bit is to collect lists of items. 2015-03-18T03:29:34Z drmeister: I gather that - I'm reading the docs "Collect some values somehow ..." really illuminating. 2015-03-18T03:29:50Z nyef: It establishes a context where there are local functions (names given as parameters to the macro) with a single, optional argument. 2015-03-18T03:30:04Z nyef: If you call the functions with a parameter, that value is added to the list. 2015-03-18T03:30:10Z nyef: If you call without a parameter, the list is returned. 2015-03-18T03:30:29Z nyef: There's very plausibly more to it than that, but that's the basics. 2015-03-18T03:31:12Z Bicyclidine: i think there's some options about nconcing instead of pushing on, and shit like that. probably not relevant in most uses 2015-03-18T03:31:12Z neoesque_ joined #lisp 2015-03-18T03:31:27Z neoesque_ quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-18T03:31:49Z nyef: Or using an entirely different collection substrate, maybe. 2015-03-18T03:32:25Z nyef: Not even necessarily a SEQUENCE type. 2015-03-18T03:33:13Z nyef: Yeah, there's some commentary in SYS:SRC;CODE;EARLY-EXTENSIONS.LISP in SBCL. 2015-03-18T03:33:22Z ryankarason quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-03-18T03:34:29Z nyef: Ah, it's a local macro, not a local function. 2015-03-18T03:35:15Z nyef: Always returns the collection, and can collect any number of values in one go. 2015-03-18T03:35:25Z drmeister: I'm tracking down a bug that I'm running into when Cleavir compiles this macro: 2015-03-18T03:35:38Z ryankarason joined #lisp 2015-03-18T03:35:39Z nyef: So calling with no arguments simply returns the collection without adding anything. 2015-03-18T03:37:02Z drmeister: http://paste.lisp.org/display/146348 2015-03-18T03:37:29Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-18T03:37:41Z Bicyclidine: missing a comma on that let*? 2015-03-18T03:37:44Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp 2015-03-18T03:37:54Z Bicyclidine: nnno. weird. 2015-03-18T03:38:45Z drmeister: Background: This code is from format.lsp - it's tried and true. It runs in my interpreter, it compiles with my compiler and it compiles with the two ECL compilers. 2015-03-18T03:39:44Z Bicyclidine: two levels of backquoting in a macrolet seems like a decent trial by fire 2015-03-18T03:39:45Z drmeister: When Cleavir compiles it I get an error that 3 arguments are required when 2 are given. 2015-03-18T03:40:04Z Bicyclidine: to? 2015-03-18T03:40:12Z drmeister: to? what? 2015-03-18T03:40:19Z Bicyclidine: 3 arguments to what? 2015-03-18T03:40:24Z nyef: To what are the arguments given? 2015-03-18T03:40:31Z drmeister: Good question - I'm trying to figure that out. 2015-03-18T03:40:39Z nyef: It's not part of the error message? 2015-03-18T03:40:46Z drmeister: It's when it's doing the macro expansion. 2015-03-18T03:41:13Z drmeister: The macro expansion function is in my code - it's not the most helpful error message. 2015-03-18T03:41:27Z drmeister: So I don't know what to at the moment. 2015-03-18T03:41:36Z nyef: That might be something to fix, then. Also, set *break-on-signals*, maybe? 2015-03-18T03:43:02Z drmeister: Actually, no - I think I know what it is - it's the call to EXPANDER-BINDINGS 2015-03-18T03:43:39Z Bicyclidine: the call with one argument? 2015-03-18T03:43:43Z drmeister: The code of that function is: ((COMMON-LISP:BLOCK EXPANDER-BINDINGS (COLLECT-LIST-EXPANDER '#:G7092 '#:G7093 ARGS ) ) ) 2015-03-18T03:46:02Z milwaukee quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-18T03:47:16Z drmeister: In the COLLECT form that I posted above: http://paste.lisp.org/display/146348 how does the code ((COMMON-LISP:BLOCK EXPANDER-BINDINGS (COLLECT-LIST-EXPANDER '#:G7092 '#:G7093 ARGS ) ) ) get associated with EXPANDER-BINDINGS? 2015-03-18T03:47:48Z Bicyclidine: with cffi, do you usually pass arrays by just using with-foreign-object and copying, or am i missing something 2015-03-18T03:48:57Z Bicyclidine: drmeister: collect expands into a macrolet. 2015-03-18T03:49:33Z Bicyclidine: at least, if it's like the sbcl one. which just has `(,name (&rest args) (collect-list-expander ',n-value ',n-tail args)). 2015-03-18T03:51:11Z drmeister: Here's the COLLECT macro in questions: 2015-03-18T03:51:48Z drmeister: http://paste.lisp.org/display/146349 2015-03-18T03:52:01Z Bicyclidine: so, yep, pretty much the same. 2015-03-18T03:52:08Z Bicyclidine: the block is just from macrolet. 2015-03-18T03:52:12Z jasom: Bicyclidine: In many implementations you can allocate 1-dimensional lisp arrays of (unsigned-byte 8) and then get the pointer to it 2015-03-18T03:53:04Z jasom: Bicyclidine: you can't just do it with arbitrary 1-dimensional arrays though, you need it to be pinned by the gc 2015-03-18T03:53:08Z Bicyclidine: i noticed cffi had some experimental make-shareable-byte-vector thing 2015-03-18T03:53:24Z Bicyclidine: i have an array of doubles, anyway, so i guess it's not happening 2015-03-18T03:53:41Z jasom: https://github.com/sionescu/static-vectors 2015-03-18T03:53:51Z jasom: That looks like a portable wrapper 2015-03-18T03:56:46Z a2015_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-18T03:57:27Z cluck quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T03:57:49Z drmeister: I see - hmm, I'll macro expand the collect and see what it gives me - duh - should have thought of that. All these different levels are confusing. 2015-03-18T03:59:54Z fooba joined #lisp 2015-03-18T04:00:08Z rszeno quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-03-18T04:00:18Z fooba: Hi there was a meme genetor or sth by xach, anybody knows the link to that? 2015-03-18T04:00:29Z fooba: not meme actually we could create a gif file 2015-03-18T04:00:49Z Bicyclidine: http://wigflip.com/ 2015-03-18T04:01:52Z nyef: Note that Xach sold the site some time ago. 2015-03-18T04:02:36Z jasom: http://imgur.com/r2G4LZO 2015-03-18T04:02:55Z fooba: Bicyclidine: aha, that's why I couldn't find it 2015-03-18T04:02:56Z fooba: Thanks 2015-03-18T04:04:19Z psy quit (Disconnected by services) 2015-03-18T04:04:27Z fooba quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-18T04:05:03Z psy_ joined #lisp 2015-03-18T04:06:31Z ``Erik quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-18T04:07:05Z drmeister: When I macroexpand the (COLLECT ...) I get: http://paste.lisp.org/display/146350 2015-03-18T04:07:36Z drmeister: (EXPANDER-BINDINGS (&REST CORE::ARGS) (CORE::COLLECT-LIST-EXPANDER '#:G7111 '#:G7112 CORE::ARGS)) 2015-03-18T04:07:59Z drmeister: So EXPANDER-BINDINGS takes any number of arguments - but it is a MACROLET macro. 2015-03-18T04:09:03Z drmeister: I wonder if there is some confusion about whether the EXPANDER-BINDINGS macro should be called directly or if it should be called through *MACROEXPAND-HOOK*? 2015-03-18T04:09:36Z drmeister: *MACROEXPAND-HOOK* is a function that takes three arguments. 2015-03-18T04:09:54Z drmeister: A macro is a function that takes two arguments (form env) 2015-03-18T04:10:47Z drmeister: Let's see - two were passed but three were expected - I think. 2015-03-18T04:11:39Z primenum joined #lisp 2015-03-18T04:11:56Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-18T04:12:02Z drmeister: Oh beach - where for art thou? 2015-03-18T04:12:15Z drmeister: Snoozing in bed no doubt 2015-03-18T04:12:42Z drmeister: Damn this spherical planet! 2015-03-18T04:13:20Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight) 2015-03-18T04:13:28Z bgs100 quit (Quit: bgs100) 2015-03-18T04:15:03Z jasom: It's possible the have a sphere without a day/night cycle; it just needs to be hollow and larger than the sun 2015-03-18T04:15:23Z jasom: just ask Freeman Dyson 2015-03-18T04:15:38Z drmeister: If I had my druthers that's where we'd be living. 2015-03-18T04:15:39Z aeth: jasom: or it can just be very far away from any star, too 2015-03-18T04:15:48Z aeth: That one's probably easier 2015-03-18T04:16:02Z aeth: Just pick a direction and keep going there, space is mostly empty. 2015-03-18T04:16:29Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-18T04:16:48Z Slothrop quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-18T04:18:50Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2015-03-18T04:19:14Z beach joined #lisp 2015-03-18T04:19:24Z beach: Good morning everyone! 2015-03-18T04:20:22Z alpha- quit (Quit: leaving) 2015-03-18T04:21:03Z cyphase joined #lisp 2015-03-18T04:24:37Z drmeister: Just the man I wanted to see! 2015-03-18T04:24:41Z drmeister: Hi beach! 2015-03-18T04:24:52Z beach: Uh oh! 2015-03-18T04:25:03Z drmeister: oh boy oh boy oh boy 2015-03-18T04:25:52Z drmeister: I'm running into a problem with MACROLET 2015-03-18T04:26:32Z drmeister: If you are up to it I'd love to walk you through it. 2015-03-18T04:26:56Z beach: You can try and see whether I am sufficiently awake for it. 2015-03-18T04:27:07Z drmeister: If it's too early for macro expansion problems we can talk my tomorrow - your "later after I've had lunch" 2015-03-18T04:27:38Z beach: Go ahead. I can always read the logs later if I can't understand it now. 2015-03-18T04:27:51Z drmeister: Ok, this surfaced a while ago when I first tried to compile ASDF with Cleavir and now it's surfacing in FORMAT. 2015-03-18T04:28:26Z drmeister: In the FORMAT code it contains an invocation of the macro COLLECT 2015-03-18T04:28:55Z drmeister: http://paste.lisp.org/display/146348 2015-03-18T04:29:34Z drmeister: When I macroexpand that macro I get: http://paste.lisp.org/display/146350 2015-03-18T04:30:22Z alpha- joined #lisp 2015-03-18T04:30:22Z drmeister: Now when the macroexpander tries to expand: (EXPANDER-BINDINGS (BACKQUOTE ((CORE::UNQUOTE VAR) '(CORE::UNQUOTE SYMBOL))) 2015-03-18T04:30:43Z drmeister: I get the error that the macro function EXPANDER-BINDINGS expects three arguments but it's only getting two. 2015-03-18T04:30:55Z drmeister: The two arguments that it is getting is the form above and the environment. 2015-03-18T04:31:30Z beach: Wow. 2015-03-18T04:31:36Z drmeister: I was just about to start building test cases. 2015-03-18T04:31:55Z beach: As I recall, all macro functions take exactly two arguments. No? 2015-03-18T04:32:25Z drmeister: Yeah - but *macroexpand-hook* takes three, the macroexpander-function the form and the environment. 2015-03-18T04:32:36Z beach: Sure. 2015-03-18T04:32:50Z qubitnerd joined #lisp 2015-03-18T04:33:22Z Bicyclidine: macro functions expect two arguments, not three, so either your entire system is up the creek or you're misinterpreting the error. 2015-03-18T04:33:46Z drmeister: That's the only 3 argument function that I know of related to macros. the EXPANDER-BINDINGS macro has the lambda list (&rest core::args) - I don't think that's relevant here. 2015-03-18T04:34:12Z nyef: Oh. Hello, beach. 2015-03-18T04:34:34Z gc-pyon is now known as leaked-pyon 2015-03-18T04:34:39Z drmeister: This only comes up when Cleavir/Clasp compiles this code. 2015-03-18T04:34:40Z nyef: jasom: Another angle to the lack of day/night cycle might be to get it tide-locked to the local light source. 2015-03-18T04:34:43Z Bicyclidine: i'd check the backtrace more closely. 2015-03-18T04:35:01Z Bicyclidine: and/or use break on signals 2015-03-18T04:36:01Z beach: drmeister: If this problem has to do with Cleavir, then I would say Cleavir must have created a macro function that requires 3 arguments instead of 2. 2015-03-18T04:36:27Z beach: drmeister: But I can't see how that would be possible, given that you have compiled dozens of macros already without any problem. 2015-03-18T04:37:29Z drmeister: This is a macrolet created by a macro. The other weird thing about it is ends up as an interpreted function - not compiled. 2015-03-18T04:37:53Z drmeister: I'm not sure how these relate to the problem - but they are things that make this a little special. 2015-03-18T04:37:58Z drmeister: This compiles fine: 2015-03-18T04:38:08Z drmeister: (clasp-cleavir:cleavir-compile 'foo '(lambda () (macrolet ((bar () `(print "bar"))) (bar))) :debug t) 2015-03-18T04:39:12Z beach: nyef: Hey. Any progress on your web pages? 2015-03-18T04:39:31Z aeth quit (Quit: ...) 2015-03-18T04:39:59Z beach: drmeister: It is hard for me to say what is going on. 2015-03-18T04:40:18Z drmeister: Are there any simple COLLECT macros I could test this on? 2015-03-18T04:40:20Z nyef: beach: No, been concentrating on other things. 2015-03-18T04:41:17Z nyef: drmeister: (defun test (foo) (collect (bar) (dolist (baz foo (bar)) (bar (1+ baz))))) ? 2015-03-18T04:41:30Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-18T04:41:47Z nyef: That's off the top of my head, so there might be some syntax issues to sort out. 2015-03-18T04:42:20Z nyef: It's more-or-less (mapcar #'1+ foo). 2015-03-18T04:42:26Z beach: I guess I am not awake enough to figure out what COLLECT does. 2015-03-18T04:43:15Z beach: We should have an obfuscated macro contest. I'll enter the DADA macro from McCLIM and you can enter COLLECT. 2015-03-18T04:43:50Z nyef: ... DADA... Wasn't that that one bizarre thing used for layouts? 2015-03-18T04:44:17Z Bicyclidine: collect isn't so bad. the basic thing is kind of like loop's collect, except as a macro instead of part of a DSL. 2015-03-18T04:44:20Z beach: It saves duplicating the same code for VERTICAL and HORIZONTAL. That's all I remember. 2015-03-18T04:45:14Z nyef: Yeah, that's what I remember as well. 2015-03-18T04:45:44Z nyef: ... I duplicated the same code in NQ-CLIM for the BOUNDING-RECTANGLE and RECTANGLE classes. 2015-03-18T04:46:54Z beach: nyef: Do you mean you duplicated it, as opposed to using DADA in order not to? 2015-03-18T04:47:03Z nyef: Err... The STANDARD-{,BOUNDING-}RECTANGLE classes. 2015-03-18T04:47:31Z nyef: I haven't gotten to the layout pane stuff quite yet, so I don't have VERTICAL or HORIZONTAL. 2015-03-18T04:47:39Z beach: Ah, OK. 2015-03-18T04:47:53Z resttime quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-03-18T04:48:59Z Bicyclidine: drmeister: the thing i'd poke at is nested backquotes. 2015-03-18T04:49:41Z pjb joined #lisp 2015-03-18T04:49:58Z pjb is now known as Guest77818 2015-03-18T04:50:31Z beach: Here is the DADA macro: http://paste.lisp.org/+34XB 2015-03-18T04:51:21Z mj-0 joined #lisp 2015-03-18T04:51:26Z nyef: ... Words fail me. 2015-03-18T04:51:34Z nyef: Umm... 2015-03-18T04:51:41Z Bicyclidine: quite a lot is failing me, looking at that 2015-03-18T04:52:00Z nyef: Aren't I doing something similar in my standard-rectangle-set thing? 2015-03-18T04:52:01Z Bicyclidine: at least the documentation clears everything up. 2015-03-18T04:52:01Z bcoburn`_v quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-18T04:52:44Z burtons: wasn't there the start of an X windows server written in CL? 2015-03-18T04:52:54Z beach: burtons: CLXS 2015-03-18T04:53:09Z burtons: thanks 2015-03-18T04:53:16Z beach: burtons: You are in luck. The author is here now. 2015-03-18T04:53:21Z nyef: Yeah, might be some buried treasure in CLXS. 2015-03-18T04:53:29Z beach: burtons: And his website is up again. 2015-03-18T04:53:47Z nyef: Which file is DADA defined in? 2015-03-18T04:53:53Z beach: panes.lisp 2015-03-18T04:53:59Z nyef: Thank you. 2015-03-18T04:54:13Z burtons: beach: that would be you? 2015-03-18T04:54:18Z burtons: the author i mean 2015-03-18T04:54:25Z beach: burtons: No, that would be nyef. 2015-03-18T04:54:29Z burtons: ah nyef 2015-03-18T04:54:48Z nyef: ... Yeah, DADA isn't just evil, it's stupid. 2015-03-18T04:54:49Z burtons: just wanted to take a look at it 2015-03-18T04:55:34Z foom quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-18T04:56:04Z nyef: http://lisphacker.com/projects/clxs/ 2015-03-18T04:56:21Z nyef: Umm... I have no idea if that darcs repo still works, though. 2015-03-18T04:57:11Z beach: nyef: Perhaps you should take a few minutes and convert it to GIT? 2015-03-18T04:57:27Z nyef: Perhaps. 2015-03-18T04:57:43Z nyef: But not tonight, it's already 1AM. 2015-03-18T04:57:47Z burtons: is it x on x? 2015-03-18T04:58:09Z beach: nyef: You have a lot of interesting code that has been started and not finished. It would be good if it were accessible. 2015-03-18T04:58:23Z nyef: burtons: Never got as far as a backend for it. 2015-03-18T04:58:39Z burtons: that's almost better 2015-03-18T04:58:42Z resttime joined #lisp 2015-03-18T04:58:47Z nyef: beach: That's true. Some of it has never seen the light of day. 2015-03-18T04:59:04Z burtons: it's either port mcclim to mezzano or port x and clx 2015-03-18T04:59:16Z burtons: just thinking out loud 2015-03-18T05:00:14Z nyef: burtons: I was hoping to get NQ-CLIM in shape to run on Mezzano, but... my focus keeps ending up elsewhere these days. 2015-03-18T05:00:17Z beach: burtons: What about having Mezzano communicate with an external X server? Then you don't need the server itself. Unless you want it of course. 2015-03-18T05:01:31Z burtons: that would just require porting clx i would think 2015-03-18T05:01:37Z beach: Yes. 2015-03-18T05:01:58Z burtons: 'just require' 2015-03-18T05:02:20Z beach: burtons: I don't think CLX is particularly bad. 2015-03-18T05:02:39Z burtons: i think porting swank first would be better 2015-03-18T05:02:50Z ``Erik joined #lisp 2015-03-18T05:02:54Z nyef: beach: The point is that Mezzano already has framebuffer, mouse, and keyboard drivers, so an X server would allow taking advantage of the network transparency and also the existing CLX-based applications once CLX works. 2015-03-18T05:03:21Z beach: Sure. 2015-03-18T05:03:24Z burtons: i ported bordeaux-threads a little while back but because there's no destroy-thread it takes down the system during tests 2015-03-18T05:03:57Z Bicyclidine quit (Read error: No route to host) 2015-03-18T05:03:57Z burtons: i'm just not sure if that would be easier than writing a new backend for mcclim 2015-03-18T05:04:12Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2015-03-18T05:04:38Z burtons: i'm sure it would be better native 2015-03-18T05:04:54Z burtons: but having an x server would be good too 2015-03-18T05:04:56Z beach: burtons: Oh, I see. You want a framebuffer backend for McCLIM? That is pretty trivial I would think. I have done it in the past. 2015-03-18T05:05:23Z burtons: yes, that's pretty much all that mezzano has is a framebuffer interface 2015-03-18T05:05:59Z burtons: do you have any examples i could look at? 2015-03-18T05:06:21Z beach: I am not sure it made it to a repository. Hold on... 2015-03-18T05:08:13Z burtons: ah, there seems to be a fill in the blanks null backend that one could follow 2015-03-18T05:08:58Z beach: burtons: OK several options... 2015-03-18T05:09:21Z beach: burtons: The backend is a few 100 lines, but then there is the font stuff that is 3kLOC. 2015-03-18T05:09:38Z beach: burtons: Do you want it as a .tar file, or something else. 2015-03-18T05:09:44Z burtons: font rendering? 2015-03-18T05:09:48Z beach: yeah. 2015-03-18T05:09:56Z burtons: that's already handled by mezzano 2015-03-18T05:10:08Z burtons: a tar file is good 2015-03-18T05:10:16Z beach: But you might need the code in order to understand the rest. 2015-03-18T05:10:20Z beach: OK. hold on... 2015-03-18T05:10:21Z burtons: yes 2015-03-18T05:11:45Z nyef: Sleep beckons. G'night all. 2015-03-18T05:11:48Z nyef quit (Quit: G'night all) 2015-03-18T05:12:05Z beach: http://metamodular.com/mcclim-framebuffer.tar 2015-03-18T05:12:24Z beach: burtons: It is written as a special medium. 2015-03-18T05:12:44Z burtons: cool, i'll take a look at it 2015-03-18T05:12:46Z beach: burtons: If you want a little bit more work, I recommend you look at CLIM3/CLIMatis instead. 2015-03-18T05:12:58Z beach: It already has a framebuffer backend. 2015-03-18T05:13:01Z Soft quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-18T05:13:02Z burtons: rather than mcclim? 2015-03-18T05:13:09Z beach: Yeah. 2015-03-18T05:13:20Z beach: But it doesn't have presentation types yet. 2015-03-18T05:13:52Z beach: The output is a lot cleaner than CLIM, and the code is higher quality than McCLIM. 2015-03-18T05:14:05Z beach: It may not do what you want of course. 2015-03-18T05:14:13Z echo-area quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-03-18T05:14:43Z beach: There is a simple inspector in the repository to show what it can do. 2015-03-18T05:15:16Z beach: Now, if you want CLIM compatibility, CLIM3/CLIMatis is not it. 2015-03-18T05:15:44Z burtons: ok, thanks 2015-03-18T05:16:56Z selat joined #lisp 2015-03-18T05:17:16Z burtons: hmm, seems i'd first have to hack the asdf files of mcclim...mezzano's asdf doesn't like them 2015-03-18T05:17:43Z beach: I don't like them either. :) 2015-03-18T05:17:49Z burtons: heh 2015-03-18T05:17:53Z pillton: G'day beach. 2015-03-18T05:19:04Z beach: burtons: Did you use my repository for McCLIM? 2015-03-18T05:19:12Z burtons: i think so 2015-03-18T05:19:22Z beach: https://github.com/robert-strandh/McCLIM 2015-03-18T05:19:23Z burtons: you posted it the other day and i grabbed it 2015-03-18T05:19:26Z beach: Good. 2015-03-18T05:19:37Z beach: Then I will take pull requests and other things. 2015-03-18T05:19:52Z beach: If you decide to clean things up, I mean. 2015-03-18T05:20:14Z burtons: we'll see home much ample free time i have :) 2015-03-18T05:20:32Z beach: burtons: Sure, I am not trying to put pressure on you. Just saying... 2015-03-18T05:20:42Z burtons: (require 'climatis) is chugging along with no errors so far 2015-03-18T05:20:50Z burtons: beach: :) just the trademarked saying 2015-03-18T05:21:39Z beach: burtons: What are you using to compile CLIMatis? 2015-03-18T05:21:46Z burtons: mezzano 2015-03-18T05:21:53Z burtons: just seeing how far it gets 2015-03-18T05:22:02Z burtons: barfed at requiring clx, obviously 2015-03-18T05:22:04Z beach: burtons: It uses CLX. 2015-03-18T05:22:28Z beach: burtons: But it only uses a simple window and a client-side image as a framebuffer. 2015-03-18T05:22:38Z burtons: yes, i thought so 2015-03-18T05:23:34Z burtons: i'll take a look at the clx-framebuffer code 2015-03-18T05:23:48Z beach: OK. Let me know if you have any questions. 2015-03-18T05:24:06Z burtons: sure, thanks 2015-03-18T05:24:52Z burtons: i gotta go to bed, so later 2015-03-18T05:25:05Z beach: 'night burtons. 2015-03-18T05:25:53Z beach: pillton: Any progress on maximizing minimal compilation? 2015-03-18T05:26:07Z pillton: No. I have too much on at the moment. 2015-03-18T05:26:19Z hvxgr quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-18T05:26:20Z pillton: I am going to look at it though. 2015-03-18T05:26:34Z beach: OK. 2015-03-18T05:29:12Z Harag quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-18T05:29:20Z Harag1 joined #lisp 2015-03-18T05:29:41Z pillton: beach: Have you given much thought as to why macros and compiler macros are distinct? 2015-03-18T05:30:29Z beach: I have been assuming that compiler macros were invented later, and that macros had to be left in for backward compatibility. 2015-03-18T05:31:19Z beach: I haven't thought deeply enough about it to determine whether compiler macros could be a substitute for ordinary macros. I assumed they could. 2015-03-18T05:31:30Z pillton: It would be interesting to consider an evaluation model where an arbitrary number of syntactic transformations can occur. A CLOS for macro expansion. 2015-03-18T05:31:32Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-18T05:32:03Z beach: Definitely very interesting idea. 2015-03-18T05:32:34Z pillton: You could ditch macros as they are now, and make the current compiler macro functionality as macros. 2015-03-18T05:32:52Z yasha9 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-03-18T05:33:13Z beach: Or the other way around. 2015-03-18T05:33:29Z beach: I think the optional expansion is needed. 2015-03-18T05:33:41Z pillton: That is what the compiler macros give you. 2015-03-18T05:34:00Z pillton: If the compiler macro says I have had enough, then evaluate the function. 2015-03-18T05:34:02Z beach: Oh, I misunderstood what you wrote. OK. 2015-03-18T05:34:20Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2015-03-18T05:35:14Z cyphase quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-18T05:35:58Z pillton: The idea is to look at first class environments, a change in the evaluation model and the maximising minimal compilation idea simultaneously. 2015-03-18T05:36:22Z em quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-18T05:36:22Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-03-18T05:36:27Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-03-18T05:38:45Z stardiviner quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-18T05:39:07Z em joined #lisp 2015-03-18T05:39:26Z gingerale joined #lisp 2015-03-18T05:40:16Z linux_dream quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-18T05:41:06Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-03-18T05:41:08Z clintm quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T05:43:48Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2015-03-18T05:45:08Z Harag1 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-18T05:45:21Z Harag joined #lisp 2015-03-18T05:46:22Z yasha9 joined #lisp 2015-03-18T05:48:11Z cyphase joined #lisp 2015-03-18T05:51:53Z leaked-pyon is now known as dangling-pyon 2015-03-18T05:52:30Z stardiviner joined #lisp 2015-03-18T05:53:21Z CrazyEddy quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T05:55:22Z a2015 joined #lisp 2015-03-18T05:56:47Z hvxgr joined #lisp 2015-03-18T05:57:38Z munksgaard joined #lisp 2015-03-18T05:57:52Z stardiviner quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-03-18T05:59:07Z oleo quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-18T06:00:19Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-03-18T06:00:26Z sz0 joined #lisp 2015-03-18T06:01:31Z Slothrop joined #lisp 2015-03-18T06:01:57Z CrazyEddy joined #lisp 2015-03-18T06:02:24Z seg quit (Quit: !!) 2015-03-18T06:03:34Z selat quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-18T06:04:27Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-18T06:07:04Z beach: pillton: Very ambitious. 2015-03-18T06:07:39Z beach: pillton: Do you mean first-class environments in general, global and otherwise? 2015-03-18T06:10:05Z sunwukong joined #lisp 2015-03-18T06:10:08Z seg joined #lisp 2015-03-18T06:10:09Z seg quit (Changing host) 2015-03-18T06:10:09Z seg joined #lisp 2015-03-18T06:10:48Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-18T06:11:01Z oscar_toro quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2015-03-18T06:14:44Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-18T06:15:12Z primenum quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-03-18T06:15:15Z pt1 joined #lisp 2015-03-18T06:17:01Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-03-18T06:17:38Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T06:19:00Z ebrasca joined #lisp 2015-03-18T06:20:13Z Harag joined #lisp 2015-03-18T06:22:16Z schaueho joined #lisp 2015-03-18T06:23:14Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-18T06:25:57Z sheilong quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2015-03-18T06:26:41Z ASau joined #lisp 2015-03-18T06:28:59Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2015-03-18T06:29:13Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-18T06:30:11Z mrSpec joined #lisp 2015-03-18T06:30:35Z theos quit (Disconnected by services) 2015-03-18T06:31:03Z theos joined #lisp 2015-03-18T06:31:54Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T06:32:18Z css106420_ joined #lisp 2015-03-18T06:33:39Z Guest77818 left #lisp 2015-03-18T06:33:56Z pjb joined #lisp 2015-03-18T06:35:17Z Slothrop quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-18T06:35:25Z easye quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-18T06:36:16Z qubitnerd joined #lisp 2015-03-18T06:38:08Z schaueho quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-18T06:38:31Z mj-0 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T06:39:03Z mj-0 joined #lisp 2015-03-18T06:40:15Z easye joined #lisp 2015-03-18T06:41:32Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-18T06:41:47Z stardiviner joined #lisp 2015-03-18T06:44:17Z Shinmera joined #lisp 2015-03-18T06:45:15Z jewel joined #lisp 2015-03-18T06:45:32Z css106420_ is now known as Slothrop 2015-03-18T06:47:11Z mj-0 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-18T06:47:31Z mj-0 joined #lisp 2015-03-18T06:52:01Z pillton: beach: Yeah. 2015-03-18T06:52:25Z Vutral joined #lisp 2015-03-18T06:53:19Z pillton got called in to a meeting. 2015-03-18T06:53:52Z beach: pillton: I started a paper about a CLOS version of the CLtL2 environment extensions, but I didn't finish it in time for ELS. But you might want to look at it anyway. It is in the SICL repository, under .../Papers/ 2015-03-18T06:54:30Z beach: pillton: ... and, do you know my paper about first-class global environments? 2015-03-18T06:54:52Z pillton: beach: Thanks. Yes I do. I have a copy here. I have been meaning to read it. 2015-03-18T06:55:14Z beach: They might be relevant to what you want to do. 2015-03-18T06:55:22Z pillton: Unfortunately this stuff isn't my primary responsibility at work. 2015-03-18T06:55:38Z beach: Yes, I understand. What is? 2015-03-18T06:55:59Z pillton: Computer vision. 2015-03-18T06:56:19Z beach: Interesting. Are you using Common Lisp or something else? 2015-03-18T06:56:29Z pillton: Common Lisp. 2015-03-18T06:56:40Z beach: Very nice! 2015-03-18T06:57:45Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-03-18T06:58:57Z xificurC joined #lisp 2015-03-18T07:00:55Z Slothrop quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-18T07:01:17Z beach: pillton: Big or small company? 2015-03-18T07:01:34Z pillton: Research institution. 2015-03-18T07:01:45Z beach: Excellent. 2015-03-18T07:02:34Z beach: Then it's your moral obligation to spend at least a day a week on other activities, say designing a new evaluation model for Lisp. :) 2015-03-18T07:04:13Z pillton: Heh. I spend some time on my libraries regularly. 2015-03-18T07:04:37Z jewel quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-18T07:05:16Z beach: pillton: What is your job title? Research engineer or something like that? 2015-03-18T07:05:51Z pillton: Yeah. 2015-03-18T07:06:59Z kanru joined #lisp 2015-03-18T07:09:18Z hitecnologys quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-18T07:09:25Z gingerale quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-03-18T07:10:32Z beach: pillton: Do you know anything about OCR-related stuff? I am not specifically interested in OCR, but in "document recovery". I thought maybe since it is related to computer vision you might know something. 2015-03-18T07:10:34Z hitecnologys joined #lisp 2015-03-18T07:11:21Z pillton: Not really. The commercial sector has taken over development of that field. 2015-03-18T07:11:33Z mj-0 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T07:11:36Z beach: I see. Thanks. 2015-03-18T07:11:58Z pillton: Document recovery as in improving what you see? 2015-03-18T07:12:55Z beach: Among other things. There are various transformations that will improve the document and that are well known, but I have some ideas that go much further. 2015-03-18T07:13:11Z mj-0 joined #lisp 2015-03-18T07:14:36Z beach: http://metamodular.com/Common-Lisp/document-recovery.html 2015-03-18T07:16:23Z jewel joined #lisp 2015-03-18T07:17:09Z gklimowicz quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-18T07:17:46Z mj-0 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T07:21:26Z Beetny joined #lisp 2015-03-18T07:22:52Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-03-18T07:25:09Z zadock quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-18T07:29:08Z mishoo joined #lisp 2015-03-18T07:29:19Z pt1 joined #lisp 2015-03-18T07:31:38Z pacon2 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-18T07:32:04Z beach: Time to get to work! 2015-03-18T07:32:08Z beach left #lisp 2015-03-18T07:32:42Z kushal quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-18T07:35:21Z kushal joined #lisp 2015-03-18T07:35:34Z Harag quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T07:36:35Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2015-03-18T07:37:21Z ggole joined #lisp 2015-03-18T07:38:51Z josteink joined #lisp 2015-03-18T07:40:07Z pacon2 joined #lisp 2015-03-18T07:43:03Z Harag joined #lisp 2015-03-18T07:43:29Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-18T07:52:36Z Soft joined #lisp 2015-03-18T07:53:28Z Bahman joined #lisp 2015-03-18T07:56:57Z Ven joined #lisp 2015-03-18T08:07:50Z harish_ joined #lisp 2015-03-18T08:09:50Z smokeink joined #lisp 2015-03-18T08:09:51Z mj-0 joined #lisp 2015-03-18T08:11:55Z Alfr joined #lisp 2015-03-18T08:13:29Z kanru quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-18T08:16:35Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-18T08:18:34Z selat joined #lisp 2015-03-18T08:19:37Z rtoym quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-18T08:19:48Z rtoym joined #lisp 2015-03-18T08:20:00Z Oladon quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-18T08:20:06Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。) 2015-03-18T08:21:00Z Harag quit (Quit: Harag) 2015-03-18T08:28:11Z munksgaard joined #lisp 2015-03-18T08:37:28Z mj-0 quit (Read error: No route to host) 2015-03-18T08:37:40Z mj-0 joined #lisp 2015-03-18T08:38:07Z pacon2 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-18T08:38:45Z pacon2 joined #lisp 2015-03-18T08:41:49Z qubitnerd joined #lisp 2015-03-18T08:42:23Z frkout joined #lisp 2015-03-18T08:47:49Z pacon2 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-18T08:48:14Z arenz joined #lisp 2015-03-18T08:48:38Z pacon2 joined #lisp 2015-03-18T08:50:51Z Shinmera joined #lisp 2015-03-18T08:57:17Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-18T09:06:08Z robot-beethoven quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2015-03-18T09:06:21Z qubitnerd joined #lisp 2015-03-18T09:10:02Z vaporatorius joined #lisp 2015-03-18T09:15:39Z larion joined #lisp 2015-03-18T09:15:44Z cadadar joined #lisp 2015-03-18T09:18:46Z myrkraverk joined #lisp 2015-03-18T09:21:17Z radioninja quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-18T09:23:31Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-03-18T09:25:35Z yeticry joined #lisp 2015-03-18T09:25:38Z Ven joined #lisp 2015-03-18T09:26:05Z sz0 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-18T09:28:59Z pacon2 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-18T09:29:51Z pacon2 joined #lisp 2015-03-18T09:30:38Z frkout quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T09:31:05Z frkout joined #lisp 2015-03-18T09:32:46Z remi`bd joined #lisp 2015-03-18T09:35:55Z frkout quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-18T09:36:22Z angavrilov joined #lisp 2015-03-18T09:37:44Z selat quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2015-03-18T09:42:24Z Harag joined #lisp 2015-03-18T09:42:32Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-03-18T09:44:05Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2015-03-18T09:46:14Z harish_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-18T09:46:36Z kanru joined #lisp 2015-03-18T09:48:03Z hardenedapple joined #lisp 2015-03-18T09:48:42Z xan_ joined #lisp 2015-03-18T09:50:00Z Quadrescence quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2015-03-18T09:53:09Z admg joined #lisp 2015-03-18T09:54:16Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-18T09:58:46Z Cymew joined #lisp 2015-03-18T09:59:33Z pacon2 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-18T10:00:09Z pacon2 joined #lisp 2015-03-18T10:02:45Z myrkraverk: What is the proper way to pass &rest arguments to another function (format) ? Do I use funcall for this, or something else? 2015-03-18T10:02:48Z frkout joined #lisp 2015-03-18T10:04:03Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, etc.) 2015-03-18T10:04:21Z jewel: myrkraverk, you just call it 2015-03-18T10:04:29Z Bahman quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-18T10:04:35Z cadadar joined #lisp 2015-03-18T10:04:55Z myrkraverk: I mean, when do (defun foo (&rest args) ... (format ) ...) 2015-03-18T10:05:27Z jewel: you can use apply 2015-03-18T10:05:29Z Shinmera: clhs apply 2015-03-18T10:05:29Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_apply.htm 2015-03-18T10:06:28Z myrkraverk: Ah, thanks. 2015-03-18T10:06:46Z pjb: for format, you can use ~? 2015-03-18T10:06:59Z pjb: it would probably be more efficient than apply. 2015-03-18T10:07:47Z pjb: (let ((args '(1 2 3))) (format nil "Hi ~@?" "~{~A~^ ~}" args)) --> "Hi 1 2 3" 2015-03-18T10:14:55Z Adlai: clhs ~? 2015-03-18T10:14:55Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_cgf.htm 2015-03-18T10:16:21Z Bahman joined #lisp 2015-03-18T10:16:52Z radioninja joined #lisp 2015-03-18T10:17:29Z gravicappa joined #lisp 2015-03-18T10:19:37Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-03-18T10:20:37Z jewel quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-03-18T10:28:43Z sz0 joined #lisp 2015-03-18T10:30:17Z qbit quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-18T10:32:21Z qbit joined #lisp 2015-03-18T10:32:43Z qbit is now known as Guest92373 2015-03-18T10:33:40Z k-dawg joined #lisp 2015-03-18T10:34:54Z Colleen quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T10:36:17Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2015-03-18T10:37:52Z Colleen joined #lisp 2015-03-18T10:38:40Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-03-18T10:39:33Z harish_ joined #lisp 2015-03-18T10:42:23Z dim: is there a way to change a dynamic binding for upper levels without using setf, or at least without changing the binding's value for the global scope? 2015-03-18T10:42:26Z k-dawg quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2015-03-18T10:42:55Z dim: (defvar *a* nil) (defun caller () (callee)) (defun callee () (setf *a* 'x)) 2015-03-18T10:43:12Z dim: then when doing (caller), *a* is left set to 'x in the global env 2015-03-18T10:43:14Z dim: I want to avoid that 2015-03-18T10:43:26Z dim: well, I would like it to be possible to avoid that 2015-03-18T10:44:34Z H4ns: dim: sure, just use a (let ((*a* *a*)) at the appropriate place in the upper level 2015-03-18T10:44:52Z pt1_ joined #lisp 2015-03-18T10:45:00Z dim: I tried that (with nil rather than *a*) and it doesn't work I though it would 2015-03-18T10:45:08Z dim: will try again paying more attention then 2015-03-18T10:45:38Z dim: upper level in my tests being inside caller definition, around the call to callee 2015-03-18T10:46:56Z H4ns: it works very well if you do it right. setf will change the dynamic binding, so if you bind your dynamic variable somewhere in the call stack, setf will modify that binding, not the global one. 2015-03-18T10:47:22Z pt1 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-03-18T10:47:40Z dim: I don't seem to have to brains to do it right just now, I'll get back to it later; I though I understood that well enough and I've been using that properties before, but well, maybe there's something I can't see 2015-03-18T10:47:49Z dim: I should soon enough be able to publish that code, btw 2015-03-18T10:48:08Z dim: anyway, time to run AFK (kids time), thanks for your help 2015-03-18T10:48:33Z H4ns: dim: http://paste.lisp.org/display/146356 2015-03-18T10:52:39Z sz0 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-03-18T10:53:47Z Bahman quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-18T10:54:10Z {-}grant- joined #lisp 2015-03-18T10:54:11Z {-}grant joined #lisp 2015-03-18T10:54:25Z xpoqp quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-18T10:54:28Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2015-03-18T10:54:28Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 2015-03-18T10:54:28Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2015-03-18T10:55:56Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。) 2015-03-18T11:04:00Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2015-03-18T11:05:55Z Bahman joined #lisp 2015-03-18T11:05:57Z przl joined #lisp 2015-03-18T11:06:20Z przl quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-18T11:07:05Z przl joined #lisp 2015-03-18T11:07:07Z moei quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-18T11:07:41Z moei joined #lisp 2015-03-18T11:09:09Z scymtym joined #lisp 2015-03-18T11:10:10Z corehello joined #lisp 2015-03-18T11:10:37Z corehello quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2015-03-18T11:14:16Z sz0 joined #lisp 2015-03-18T11:14:56Z alesguzik joined #lisp 2015-03-18T11:16:49Z dim: (values *a* (caller) *a*) shows nil, caller result, then latest value of *a* from within the caller frame, I'm baffled 2015-03-18T11:17:17Z mj-0 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T11:17:19Z jewel joined #lisp 2015-03-18T11:17:39Z bjkvgr joined #lisp 2015-03-18T11:17:56Z bjkvgr: did usa covertly supply isis with weapons like they did with al-qaeda to justify creating wars? 2015-03-18T11:17:56Z bjkvgr: did usa excute the creative mess in the middle east like they said they will, does the creative mess include explosion with uncertain responsibles to create wars? 2015-03-18T11:17:56Z bjkvgr: plz, send my qs to help limiting usa&israel aggression against others. 2015-03-18T11:17:56Z bjkvgr: . 2015-03-18T11:17:56Z bjkvgr: did usa covertly supply isis with weapons like they did with al-qaeda to justify creating wars? 2015-03-18T11:17:56Z bjkvgr: did usa excute the creative mess in the middle east like they said they will, does the creative mess include explosion with uncertain responsibles to create wars? 2015-03-18T11:17:57Z bjkvgr: plz, send my qs to help limiting usa&israel aggression against others. 2015-03-18T11:17:57Z bjkvgr: . 2015-03-18T11:18:00Z mj-0 joined #lisp 2015-03-18T11:18:30Z bjkvgr quit (Excess Flood) 2015-03-18T11:18:37Z ggole: dim: does caller bind *a* or just setq it? 2015-03-18T11:18:42Z bjkvgr joined #lisp 2015-03-18T11:18:59Z bjkvgr quit (Killed (idoru (Spam is off topic on freenode.))) 2015-03-18T11:20:37Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp 2015-03-18T11:20:55Z dim: ggole: caller binds *a* then calls into other functions, a struct (ast) walker that calls handlers, one of which setf *a* 2015-03-18T11:20:57Z Shinmera joined #lisp 2015-03-18T11:22:01Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-18T11:22:29Z ggole: If caller binds *a*, I don't think you should see it change 2015-03-18T11:23:10Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-18T11:24:06Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2015-03-18T11:28:34Z H4ns: dim: you're doing it wrong. can you share a minimal example that shows how you're doing it wrongly? :) 2015-03-18T11:28:54Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。) 2015-03-18T11:30:01Z Ven joined #lisp 2015-03-18T11:37:08Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-18T11:37:43Z Shinmera joined #lisp 2015-03-18T11:37:52Z kushal joined #lisp 2015-03-18T11:38:18Z Ven joined #lisp 2015-03-18T11:40:48Z guicho joined #lisp 2015-03-18T11:43:03Z arbscht joined #lisp 2015-03-18T11:43:34Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-18T11:45:25Z kushal joined #lisp 2015-03-18T11:47:13Z JuanDaugherty quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T11:47:52Z Jaskologist quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-18T11:52:10Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-18T11:52:48Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-18T11:54:19Z ndrei joined #lisp 2015-03-18T11:54:41Z Xach joined #lisp 2015-03-18T11:54:53Z Jaskologist joined #lisp 2015-03-18T11:55:23Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-18T11:59:35Z gklimowicz joined #lisp 2015-03-18T12:06:08Z pacon2 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-18T12:07:31Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-03-18T12:11:05Z agumonkey quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-18T12:15:25Z cyphase quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-18T12:17:06Z EvW joined #lisp 2015-03-18T12:21:21Z flip214: anybody else gets "invalid number of arguments: 4" on # with sbcl 1.2.8 and current quicklisp (client + dists)? 2015-03-18T12:22:54Z flip214: ~/.cache/common-lisp was already removed before the last try. 2015-03-18T12:23:40Z flip214: ah, ":load-contribs nil" makes it work again... strange. 2015-03-18T12:24:03Z Xach: What function accepts :load-contribs? 2015-03-18T12:24:22Z flip214: swank-loader:init 2015-03-18T12:24:28Z flip214: in ~/.sbclrc 2015-03-18T12:24:44Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-18T12:27:56Z cyphase joined #lisp 2015-03-18T12:29:02Z nyef joined #lisp 2015-03-18T12:29:17Z nyef: G'morning all. 2015-03-18T12:30:52Z kcj quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-18T12:33:08Z frkout quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-18T12:34:56Z Longlius joined #lisp 2015-03-18T12:34:57Z qubitnerd joined #lisp 2015-03-18T12:41:43Z Bahman quit (Quit: Ave atque vale) 2015-03-18T12:47:44Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2015-03-18T12:48:55Z Ven_ joined #lisp 2015-03-18T12:49:02Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-18T12:49:28Z drmeister: beach: Hi nyef 2015-03-18T12:50:14Z LiamH joined #lisp 2015-03-18T12:51:56Z eudoxia joined #lisp 2015-03-18T12:52:23Z przl joined #lisp 2015-03-18T12:53:47Z alesguzik quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-18T12:53:59Z Ven_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-18T12:56:33Z Ven joined #lisp 2015-03-18T12:57:05Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-18T12:59:56Z hellofunk joined #lisp 2015-03-18T13:00:19Z Guest92373 is now known as qbit 2015-03-18T13:01:19Z Ven quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-03-18T13:02:22Z {-}grant quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-18T13:03:34Z Ven joined #lisp 2015-03-18T13:05:46Z alesguzik joined #lisp 2015-03-18T13:08:40Z przl joined #lisp 2015-03-18T13:13:48Z urandom__ joined #lisp 2015-03-18T13:15:43Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-03-18T13:17:52Z msmith joined #lisp 2015-03-18T13:18:17Z alesguzik quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-18T13:20:49Z msmith: hi all. anyone have a thought as to why an assoc function would match a list outside of a function but not inside? for instance say I have '((a . 1)). the function (assoc 'a mylist) works on its own, but not when called inside of a function 2015-03-18T13:21:11Z msmith: first time I've had this problem 2015-03-18T13:21:53Z Ralt: code? 2015-03-18T13:22:13Z k-dawg joined #lisp 2015-03-18T13:22:16Z Shinmera: I can't tell you anything other than "you're doing it wrong" from your description. 2015-03-18T13:22:36Z newcup: msmith: package mismatch? 2015-03-18T13:23:22Z msmith: newcup: there's a thought 2015-03-18T13:23:33Z kuteri joined #lisp 2015-03-18T13:23:40Z kuteri: hi 2015-03-18T13:23:45Z msmith: I don't think any package is overriding assoc 2015-03-18T13:23:53Z kuteri left #lisp 2015-03-18T13:25:16Z Shinmera: The question isn't about overriding 2015-03-18T13:25:26Z Shinmera: The question is about where the respective 'a symbols are located 2015-03-18T13:26:00Z Shinmera: Or any other number of things that might be going wrong the we can only fathom from your description. 2015-03-18T13:26:03Z msmith: Shinmera: good point. I have experienced that before 2015-03-18T13:27:31Z Shinmera: dim: Hey, are you aware that pgloader can't be installed on wheezy because libc6 is at 2.13 and pgloader needs 2.14? 2015-03-18T13:30:07Z alesguzik joined #lisp 2015-03-18T13:31:14Z Longlius quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-18T13:34:50Z hitecnologys_ joined #lisp 2015-03-18T13:35:05Z emaczen joined #lisp 2015-03-18T13:36:06Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-18T13:38:58Z emaczen: Is there a "this" pointer available inside a defclass form? I want to bind a slot via :default-initargs to a superclass slot value. 2015-03-18T13:39:38Z Shinmera: No. 2015-03-18T13:39:53Z Xach: emaczen: no. you use auxiliary methods on initialize-instance or shared-initialize for that kind of thing. 2015-03-18T13:40:12Z emaczen: Ok, I'll give that a try. 2015-03-18T13:40:30Z Ethan- joined #lisp 2015-03-18T13:41:05Z antonv joined #lisp 2015-03-18T13:41:29Z Adlai: if your superclass slot values are *always* coming from initargs, you could just supply the same :initarg to the child slot 2015-03-18T13:41:44Z badkins joined #lisp 2015-03-18T13:41:59Z Adlai: maybe s/supply/define/, i mean include :initarg : 2015-03-18T13:42:55Z frkout joined #lisp 2015-03-18T13:44:29Z Adlai: reasonable-yet-impractical wish #73241: slime-macroexpand-1-inplace at the repl inserts a presentation, so gensyms work 2015-03-18T13:47:08Z nyef: ... And that you can edit the gensym names in-place, and all of the instances for that gensym change as you edit any of them. 2015-03-18T13:47:28Z frkout quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-18T13:48:08Z Adlai: what's the use for that? being able to replace the gensym with a capturable symbol? 2015-03-18T13:48:56Z harish_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-18T13:49:41Z zadock joined #lisp 2015-03-18T13:50:27Z nyef: More or less, yes. 2015-03-18T13:51:16Z selat joined #lisp 2015-03-18T13:52:17Z ndrei joined #lisp 2015-03-18T13:54:44Z guicho: sounds interesting. in debugging a complex macro, that is very useful;; I actually had to save-file *slime-macroexpansion*, dissable read-only flag, then clean out all "#:" with regexp 2015-03-18T13:55:36Z guicho: in order to expand the subform which contains gensyms (that should maintain the uniqueness of the symbol 2015-03-18T13:58:20Z foom joined #lisp 2015-03-18T14:01:33Z k-dawg quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2015-03-18T14:06:18Z xan__ joined #lisp 2015-03-18T14:06:29Z myrkraverk: pjb, [very late reply] thanks. It's syslog, so basically the same as format. 2015-03-18T14:06:48Z myrkraverk: ^^^^ ~? 2015-03-18T14:07:20Z xan_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-18T14:07:46Z Oladon joined #lisp 2015-03-18T14:08:07Z intinig joined #lisp 2015-03-18T14:08:22Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-03-18T14:08:47Z hiroaki quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-18T14:10:12Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-18T14:10:17Z k-dawg joined #lisp 2015-03-18T14:10:37Z Ethan- quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-18T14:15:21Z remi`bd quit (Quit: leaving) 2015-03-18T14:16:50Z Longlius joined #lisp 2015-03-18T14:17:07Z gklimowi_ joined #lisp 2015-03-18T14:18:57Z flip214: in TRUNCATE, the second returned value is the remainder ... but that'll be a FLOAT too if the inputs were FLOATs, right? 2015-03-18T14:19:01Z gklimowicz quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-18T14:19:06Z corehello joined #lisp 2015-03-18T14:19:50Z qubitnerd joined #lisp 2015-03-18T14:19:57Z flip214: is there a function that gives me the integer remainder even for FLOAT inputs? 2015-03-18T14:21:26Z ahungry_ joined #lisp 2015-03-18T14:22:02Z Xach: flip214: not built-in 2015-03-18T14:27:20Z mearnsh quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-18T14:29:00Z mearnsh joined #lisp 2015-03-18T14:29:29Z nyef: flip214: Very likely not, because your dividend (or divisor) could have a fractional part in the first place. 2015-03-18T14:29:52Z nyef: Why would you expect an integer remainder from dividing, say, 5.7 by 1.5 ? 2015-03-18T14:30:37Z thodg joined #lisp 2015-03-18T14:32:01Z ASau quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-18T14:32:22Z flip214: nyef: because it would fit my needs right here, and the first sentence in TRUNCATE is "Return the greatest integer not greater than number, or number/divisor." 2015-03-18T14:32:56Z ASau joined #lisp 2015-03-18T14:33:08Z flip214: ah sorry, that was from FLOOR. but TRUNCATE is near enough. 2015-03-18T14:33:16Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-03-18T14:33:42Z flip214: I'm well aware that the remainder might be fractional ... I just need an integer here, and wanted to know whether there's an optimized function for that, too. 2015-03-18T14:34:18Z Xach: There is not. 2015-03-18T14:34:41Z jlongster joined #lisp 2015-03-18T14:35:02Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2015-03-18T14:37:57Z yeticry quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T14:38:07Z oleo joined #lisp 2015-03-18T14:38:13Z Grue` quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-18T14:38:18Z intinig quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T14:38:29Z yeticry joined #lisp 2015-03-18T14:39:18Z kobain joined #lisp 2015-03-18T14:39:26Z cluck joined #lisp 2015-03-18T14:40:28Z alesguzik quit (Quit: leaving) 2015-03-18T14:41:15Z intinig joined #lisp 2015-03-18T14:42:48Z wheelsucker joined #lisp 2015-03-18T14:45:25Z harish_ joined #lisp 2015-03-18T14:46:19Z theBlackDragon quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-18T14:46:33Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp 2015-03-18T14:47:51Z intinig quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T14:48:20Z guicho: flop214: it seems SBCL has several deftransforms, if you five into it with M-. , you would see if the optimizer is clever enough to skip the computation of the second value. 2015-03-18T14:48:45Z guicho: lots of typos; 2015-03-18T14:48:53Z corehello quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-18T14:51:17Z intinig joined #lisp 2015-03-18T14:53:14Z boogie joined #lisp 2015-03-18T14:54:41Z arenz quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-18T14:59:47Z przl joined #lisp 2015-03-18T15:01:16Z {-}grant joined #lisp 2015-03-18T15:02:05Z intinig quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T15:04:42Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-18T15:07:29Z antgreen joined #lisp 2015-03-18T15:08:49Z intinig joined #lisp 2015-03-18T15:09:32Z Grue`` joined #lisp 2015-03-18T15:10:17Z cadadar joined #lisp 2015-03-18T15:11:22Z cadadar quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-18T15:11:27Z cadadar1 joined #lisp 2015-03-18T15:13:55Z kami joined #lisp 2015-03-18T15:13:58Z kami: Hello #lisp 2015-03-18T15:14:59Z mrSpec quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T15:15:48Z ndrei joined #lisp 2015-03-18T15:17:29Z kami: How can I call a C function which takes a char ** argument (an array of strings) with cffi? 2015-03-18T15:18:08Z kami: with-foreign-string gives me a char * 2015-03-18T15:19:14Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp 2015-03-18T15:19:34Z ssake_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-18T15:22:37Z intinig quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T15:24:44Z intinig joined #lisp 2015-03-18T15:24:49Z fxer joined #lisp 2015-03-18T15:26:55Z k-dawg quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2015-03-18T15:28:56Z gklimowi_ quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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That's basically what I found: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.lisp.cffi.devel/706 2015-03-18T17:14:28Z jasom: it would be fairly easy to turn the example into a "with-foreign-strings" that allocates, uses, and frees within an unwind-protect 2015-03-18T17:15:33Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2015-03-18T17:15:35Z kanru quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-18T17:16:15Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-18T17:17:42Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-18T17:18:14Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T17:20:09Z nyef quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-18T17:22:47Z munksgaard joined #lisp 2015-03-18T17:23:26Z ndrei joined #lisp 2015-03-18T17:25:16Z aeth joined #lisp 2015-03-18T17:25:19Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2015-03-18T17:25:42Z reb quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T17:26:56Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp 2015-03-18T17:27:19Z Alfr quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-18T17:27:55Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2015-03-18T17:28:50Z hardenedapple quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1) 2015-03-18T17:29:23Z pt1 joined #lisp 2015-03-18T17:30:34Z futpib joined #lisp 2015-03-18T17:31:15Z dfinninger quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T17:32:07Z intinig quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T17:32:12Z Bicyclidine quit (Read error: No route to host) 2015-03-18T17:32:34Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2015-03-18T17:32:35Z reb` joined #lisp 2015-03-18T17:33:27Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-18T17:33:36Z nyef joined #lisp 2015-03-18T17:36:55Z linux_dream quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-18T17:37:27Z Petit_Dejeuner_ joined #lisp 2015-03-18T17:38:09Z a2015 joined #lisp 2015-03-18T17:40:43Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-18T17:40:57Z Denommus joined #lisp 2015-03-18T17:41:08Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-18T17:41:08Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-18T17:42:08Z linux_dream joined #lisp 2015-03-18T17:44:01Z Jesin joined #lisp 2015-03-18T17:47:26Z admg quit (Quit: Bye) 2015-03-18T17:48:05Z jasom: is it permissible for the storing form of a setf expansion to include a setf? 2015-03-18T17:48:50Z gravicappa joined #lisp 2015-03-18T17:50:29Z Bicyclidine: pretty sure, yeah. 2015-03-18T17:51:07Z Bicyclidine: if you're worried you could go through get-setf-expansion and add it to yours, but it'd be a pain. 2015-03-18T17:52:45Z mj-0 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T17:53:17Z jasom: Bicyclidine: well in this case, I'd like to to preferrably also work with parenscript which limits me to defsetf 2015-03-18T17:54:57Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T17:57:44Z jasom: !$@!#R$%@#!$#@ 2015-03-18T17:57:55Z jasom: parenscript only supports the short form of defsetf 2015-03-18T17:57:59Z jasom: *sigh* 2015-03-18T17:58:02Z pt1 joined #lisp 2015-03-18T17:59:13Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-18T17:59:43Z jasom: this is really annoying since macroexpansion happens with access to all of lisp, so no reason for a full setf to not be implemented 2015-03-18T17:59:55Z Patzy joined #lisp 2015-03-18T17:59:59Z Denommus quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-18T18:00:12Z jasom: one part of me really wants to implement it, and the other part wants to just work around it 2015-03-18T18:03:03Z dfinninger joined #lisp 2015-03-18T18:04:45Z Bicyclidine: i see defsetf-long in the source, though it's noted to have "slightly broken" lambda lists 2015-03-18T18:05:34Z Bicyclidine: looks like it does something other than setf expansions, though 2015-03-18T18:06:36Z EvW quit (Quit: EvW) 2015-03-18T18:06:36Z jasom: yeah 2015-03-18T18:06:48Z jasom: well setf is just so darn easy to write, I think what they have now is actually harder 2015-03-18T18:07:44Z gingerale joined #lisp 2015-03-18T18:07:48Z Bicyclidine: it does seem unnecessary. also it involves something called 'ordered-set-difference' which makes the math nerd in me sad. 2015-03-18T18:08:25Z Bicyclidine: parsing setf lambda lists properly is probably a bit of a pain, though. though i guess that's not needed for get-setf-expansion. 2015-03-18T18:08:36Z jasom: exactly 2015-03-18T18:08:56Z jasom: also at this point there are probably 3 different quicklisp loadable libraries that parse lambda lists 2015-03-18T18:09:19Z jasom: parenscript predates quicklisp, so is light on the dependencies 2015-03-18T18:09:42Z Bicyclidine: setf lambda lists, though? i've written macro lambda list parsers once or twice because i don't keep things and alexandria didn't have it when i looked 2015-03-18T18:10:10Z Petit_Dejeuner__ joined #lisp 2015-03-18T18:10:18Z Bicyclidine: hm, if there's not a dedicated library already i should probably write one to go with introspect-environment 2015-03-18T18:10:47Z sz0 quit (Quit: Bye.) 2015-03-18T18:10:49Z jasom: but I would be fine with just (defun (setf X) ...) and define-setf-expander 2015-03-18T18:11:02Z jasom: getting long-form defsetf to work can come later if needed 2015-03-18T18:11:31Z jasom: also it looks like their defun (setf ) is incorrect 2015-03-18T18:11:35Z Bicyclidine: wait, it doesn't even have defun setf x? ouch. (i guess in javascript you'd need to do some name mangling) 2015-03-18T18:11:41Z Quadrescence joined #lisp 2015-03-18T18:11:58Z Bicyclidine: yeah, ok, i'll write a lambda list parser. fuckit. 2015-03-18T18:12:02Z jasom: oh wait, no that is right, I got it wrong 2015-03-18T18:12:12Z Bicyclidine: well, no, pjb has one. 2015-03-18T18:13:01Z sz0 joined #lisp 2015-03-18T18:13:08Z jasom: parenscript is BSD licensed 2015-03-18T18:14:03Z Petit_Dejeuner_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-18T18:14:09Z Shinmera: Bicyclidine: I got https://github.com/Shinmera/lambda-fiddle but I haven't tested it for setf-lambda-lists. 2015-03-18T18:14:36Z Bicyclidine: writing something that's already been done for legal reasons is not my idea of a good time, but i suppose that's life. also because implementations already have it anyway 2015-03-18T18:15:21Z Denommus joined #lisp 2015-03-18T18:16:38Z Shinmera: Artistic 2.0 ought to be libre enough. 2015-03-18T18:17:29Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T18:17:59Z Bicyclidine: does it work on trees, like for macro lambda lists? 2015-03-18T18:18:27Z Shinmera: It shouldn't choke on it, but I don't know exactly what kind of destructuring you want. 2015-03-18T18:18:39Z Shinmera: It's in QL so you can just give it a go. 2015-03-18T18:19:04Z Shinmera: http://shinmera.github.io/lambda-fiddle/ has the symbol index 2015-03-18T18:20:37Z Bicyclidine: let's see, the last thing i remember wanting was taking a deftype lambda list and converting it to a macro lambda list with '* defaults. i'll play with it i guess 2015-03-18T18:21:01Z mj-0 joined #lisp 2015-03-18T18:21:06Z Shinmera: If there's anything that's broken about it or is lacking, let me know. 2015-03-18T18:21:18Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-18T18:21:23Z paradoja joined #lisp 2015-03-18T18:21:33Z ggole quit 2015-03-18T18:25:10Z Petit_Dejeuner__ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-18T18:25:40Z CrazyEddy quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T18:28:05Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-18T18:28:20Z {-}grant- quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-18T18:28:28Z {-}grant quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-03-18T18:32:12Z resttime_ joined #lisp 2015-03-18T18:32:20Z boogie quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T18:33:08Z jasom: hmm, I'm trying to find out if it's well defined if the newvalue is evaluated before or after the setf expansion is looked up for place 2015-03-18T18:33:28Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-18T18:33:30Z d4ryus_ is now known as d4ryus 2015-03-18T18:34:40Z jasom: I guess it would have to be *after* since the setf expansion gives you the names of the temporary variables to store them to 2015-03-18T18:34:53Z Quadrescence quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2015-03-18T18:35:48Z resttime quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-18T18:36:53Z impulse quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-18T18:37:12Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft) 2015-03-18T18:41:31Z CrazyEddy joined #lisp 2015-03-18T18:41:43Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp 2015-03-18T18:42:32Z jasom: just from the specification, I would write setf like this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/146361 (I know it's suboptimal, but should be correct) 2015-03-18T18:42:36Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2015-03-18T18:42:36Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 2015-03-18T18:42:36Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2015-03-18T18:42:52Z jasom: oops, I dropped an env in the get-setf-expansion 2015-03-18T18:43:37Z Bicyclidine: that is almost exactly what sbcl has 2015-03-18T18:43:49Z jasom: Bicyclidine: it has an inside-out version too 2015-03-18T18:43:51Z PinealGlandOptic joined #lisp 2015-03-18T18:44:05Z Bicyclidine: yeah, but you don't really need it 2015-03-18T18:44:06Z jasom: for speeding up common chains 2015-03-18T18:44:40Z jasom: I remember when I first figured out how setf worked by writing one; it was a huge eye-opener to me how simple it was, and how powerful 2015-03-18T18:45:08Z mj-0 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T18:47:50Z Denommus` joined #lisp 2015-03-18T18:48:05Z ndrei joined #lisp 2015-03-18T18:48:17Z mj-0 joined #lisp 2015-03-18T18:49:05Z Denommus quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-18T18:49:59Z Denommus` is now known as Denommus 2015-03-18T18:51:53Z thodg quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-18T18:52:19Z jasom: Coming from C, A macro that allows for arbitrary rvalues in 7 lines is crazy-magic 2015-03-18T18:57:00Z pt1 joined #lisp 2015-03-18T18:57:24Z jasom: s/rval/lva 2015-03-18T18:58:07Z nyef: ... "lvaues"? (-: 2015-03-18T18:58:14Z zadock quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-18T18:58:19Z boogie joined #lisp 2015-03-18T18:58:32Z mj-0 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T18:58:40Z Bicyclidine: sounds french, somehow 2015-03-18T18:59:03Z jasom: nyef: :P 2015-03-18T18:59:06Z jasom: s/rval/lval 2015-03-18T18:59:17Z hiyosi quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-03-18T18:59:32Z radioninja joined #lisp 2015-03-18T19:00:16Z boogie quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T19:00:27Z boogie joined #lisp 2015-03-18T19:01:17Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2015-03-18T19:07:00Z Grue`` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T19:07:51Z null-pyon is now known as idem-pyon-tent 2015-03-18T19:09:30Z c74d quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T19:12:02Z c74d joined #lisp 2015-03-18T19:15:46Z ehu joined #lisp 2015-03-18T19:16:00Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-18T19:16:42Z Patzy joined #lisp 2015-03-18T19:17:23Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-18T19:19:14Z linux_dream quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-18T19:19:31Z linux_dream joined #lisp 2015-03-18T19:21:03Z drmeister: I compiled a minimal Common Lisp environment (no CLOS) with Cleavir/Clasp just now. Now I just have to get it to run... 2015-03-18T19:21:34Z sol__ joined #lisp 2015-03-18T19:22:17Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T19:25:17Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2015-03-18T19:26:29Z Bicyclidine quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-18T19:26:37Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2015-03-18T19:28:56Z linux_dream quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-18T19:30:31Z linux_dream joined #lisp 2015-03-18T19:30:40Z aap quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-18T19:31:06Z gko__ quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2015-03-18T19:31:14Z mj-0 joined #lisp 2015-03-18T19:31:25Z ehu: drmeister: I like how you're going through the explicit stages of system augmentation. 2015-03-18T19:31:40Z ehu: can you re-use the minimal system's code for the final system? 2015-03-18T19:31:46Z drmeister: Most of it. 2015-03-18T19:31:59Z ehu: I've been thinking to split up ABCL like that. 2015-03-18T19:32:11Z ehu: because bootstrapping is very fragile at the moment. 2015-03-18T19:32:11Z drmeister: Since my bootstrapping compiler isn't very smart there isn't much to bypass. 2015-03-18T19:32:44Z ehu: hmm. 2015-03-18T19:33:27Z drmeister: ehu: We were talking about viewing flow graphs a few days ago weren't we? 2015-03-18T19:33:36Z ehu: yea. we were. 2015-03-18T19:33:58Z drmeister: A friend of mine in bioinformatics put me on to Cytoscape - it saved my bacon. 2015-03-18T19:34:40Z aap_ joined #lisp 2015-03-18T19:34:45Z ehu: oh. wow. 2015-03-18T19:34:53Z drmeister: It renders huge networks. It doesn't do layout like graphviz but I was able to load graphs and lay them out in a somewhat useful fashion that contained thousands of nodes and edges. 2015-03-18T19:36:05Z Grue` joined #lisp 2015-03-18T19:36:08Z ejbs joined #lisp 2015-03-18T19:36:25Z aap_ quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-18T19:36:40Z c74d quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T19:36:46Z Bicyclidine: i've seen some nematode connectomes in cytoscape, so that's thousands of edges per node and hundreds of nodes, doin' fine 2015-03-18T19:37:09Z drmeister: beach also pointed me to Tulip - it looks like something intermediate between graphviz and Cytoscape. I haven't explored it much yet. 2015-03-18T19:37:09Z drmeister: graphviz does small graphs and it lays them out in a very pretty, pleasing way but it doesn't scale. 2015-03-18T19:37:10Z ehu: can it be used as a library? 2015-03-18T19:37:17Z ejbs: Is it possible to write something like FLET (stuffing the lexenv w/ funs) with a portable macro? I could always replace and re-insert the symbol-functions I guess 2015-03-18T19:37:21Z Xach: so many nematodes and nematedges 2015-03-18T19:37:41Z aap joined #lisp 2015-03-18T19:37:58Z ehu: does it link to common lisp systems? 2015-03-18T19:38:10Z Bicyclidine: ejbs: "with a portable macro"? flet not portable enough? (I'm probably misunderstanding you) 2015-03-18T19:38:24Z ehu: I was somewhat hoping to be able to link to the generated code graph interactively. 2015-03-18T19:39:20Z wolf_mozart quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-18T19:39:21Z c74d joined #lisp 2015-03-18T19:39:36Z swflint quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-18T19:39:37Z ejbs: Bicyclidine: I was thinking of putting in FUNCALLABLE stuff which aren't functions with a macro which acts like FLET 2015-03-18T19:40:22Z ejbs: Like funcallable-standard-object stuff 2015-03-18T19:40:43Z Bicyclidine: (ejbs-bind ((foo some-object)) ...) expands to (flet ((foo (&rest args) (apply some-object args))) ...)? 2015-03-18T19:41:16Z PaulCapestany quit (Quit: .) 2015-03-18T19:41:27Z ehu: drmeister: do you have a way to associate the original inputs, different stages of macro transformation and minimal compilation with the generated graph of instructions? 2015-03-18T19:41:29Z Bicyclidine: maybe with a let outside to avoid multiple evaluation of the objects. 2015-03-18T19:41:46Z ejbs: Bicyclidine: Sure but then TYPE-OF (typeof?) won't return the correct type 2015-03-18T19:41:48Z swflint joined #lisp 2015-03-18T19:41:58Z ejbs: for foo 2015-03-18T19:42:00Z ehu: if so, what's your approach? 2015-03-18T19:42:51Z PaulCapestany joined #lisp 2015-03-18T19:43:01Z futpib quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2015-03-18T19:43:08Z Bicyclidine: hm. think that's a hole, yeah. 2015-03-18T19:43:20Z nicdev quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-18T19:43:21Z PaulCapestany quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-18T19:43:28Z wolf_mozart joined #lisp 2015-03-18T19:43:54Z nicdev` joined #lisp 2015-03-18T19:44:10Z PaulCapestany joined #lisp 2015-03-18T19:44:13Z ejbs: Mhm, well, it's easy to make your own lexenv in SBCL at least 2015-03-18T19:44:42Z drmeister: ehu: Pretty much. I can generate a log file that contains each top-level form and a graph of the AST and the HIR (I use GML format now). Then there is the LLVM-IR file that gets generated and the final linked library. 2015-03-18T19:45:21Z drmeister: ehu: I need to talk to beach about integrating source info into the compilation processes - once I have that then the code will annotate the LLVM-IR with DWARF metadata. 2015-03-18T19:45:50Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2015-03-18T19:45:52Z drmeister: Then I'll have exactly what you describe from S-expressions down to assembly language code. 2015-03-18T19:46:06Z ehu: ok. you run all that through files? 2015-03-18T19:46:15Z ehu: in ABCL we run it all in-memory. 2015-03-18T19:46:20Z drmeister: I'm not sure what you mean? 2015-03-18T19:46:36Z ehu: ok. you said "I can generate a log file" 2015-03-18T19:46:46Z drmeister: Oh - that's for debugging. 2015-03-18T19:46:47Z ehu: so, I'm asking if you use files for the intermediary steps. 2015-03-18T19:47:03Z ehu: it's an interesting approach. 2015-03-18T19:47:13Z ehu: in ABCL, we use a lot of "primitives" 2015-03-18T19:47:27Z ehu: Lisp world functions which are implemented in Java. 2015-03-18T19:47:35Z ehu: how do you do that? 2015-03-18T19:47:39Z drmeister: No - I don't use files for the intermediary steps. Everything is done in Cleavir (Common Lisp) and LLVM (C++). The only files that are involved is the input and the final output file for COMPILE-FILE and no files for COMPILE. 2015-03-18T19:48:03Z drmeister: I have those as well. I call them "intrinsics". 2015-03-18T19:48:09Z ehu: it is a problem for whole-system optimization as is available on SBCL. 2015-03-18T19:48:10Z ehu: ok. 2015-03-18T19:48:13Z drmeister: There are a few dozen of them. 2015-03-18T19:48:39Z drmeister: They are written in C++ and LLVM can inline them. 2015-03-18T19:48:55Z ehu: that's interesting. 2015-03-18T19:49:01Z ehu: I think ABCL has too many of them. 2015-03-18T19:49:12Z ehu: how is the rest of the interoperability arranged? 2015-03-18T19:49:25Z ehu: how do you interface with the underlying OS? 2015-03-18T19:49:27Z xan__ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-18T19:49:35Z ehu: through functions written in Lisp? 2015-03-18T19:49:51Z drmeister: Through functions written in C++ 2015-03-18T19:49:54Z lemonade` joined #lisp 2015-03-18T19:50:22Z ehu: ok. those are the intrinsics you were referring to? 2015-03-18T19:50:42Z ejbs` joined #lisp 2015-03-18T19:51:11Z drmeister: No. There are two kinds of functions written in C++. Regular functions that are bound to CL symbols and special "intrinsics" that are inserted into generated code. 2015-03-18T19:51:41Z PaulCapestany quit (Quit: .) 2015-03-18T19:51:49Z ehu: ok. so, how does the first category influence any optional "whole system optimization"? 2015-03-18T19:52:37Z drmeister: They resist it - they can't be inlined right now. 2015-03-18T19:53:04Z ejbs quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-03-18T19:53:14Z drmeister: They require translators that convert Common Lisp objects to C++ objects and vice versa. 2015-03-18T19:53:21Z ehu: ok. so, there's simply no information on the returned results? 2015-03-18T19:53:22Z PaulCapestany joined #lisp 2015-03-18T19:53:34Z drmeister: I'm not sure what you mean. 2015-03-18T19:54:13Z chu joined #lisp 2015-03-18T19:54:13Z ehu: well, SBCL uses the results from functions to derive type information. 2015-03-18T19:54:36Z ehu: if you have C++ functions which can't be inlined nor have any result type info, 2015-03-18T19:54:40Z drmeister: How is that specified in Common Lisp - with DECLARE? 2015-03-18T19:54:44Z ehu: you can't derive anything from them, right? 2015-03-18T19:54:54Z ehu: the result types? 2015-03-18T19:54:58Z drmeister: Yes 2015-03-18T19:55:47Z ehu: sure. DECLARE. but what SBCL does, is derive what types the parameters in the different call sites will be and then based on those types what the result types will be. 2015-03-18T19:55:54Z ehu: that doen't require DECLAREs 2015-03-18T19:56:03Z ehu: that's what I call whole-program optimization 2015-03-18T19:56:12Z ehu: you don't do that (yet)? 2015-03-18T19:56:59Z drmeister: Hmm - ok - I see what you are saying. 2015-03-18T19:57:50Z pt1 joined #lisp 2015-03-18T19:58:05Z drmeister: So I can annotate the C++ functions with DECLARE information. The Common Lisp compiler cannot currently penetrate the C++ functions. There is a way I could do that though - I have exposed the Clang C++ ASTMatcher library. I could analyze C++ code and infer type information from it. That would be very sophisticated. 2015-03-18T19:58:18Z oleo is now known as Guest84466 2015-03-18T19:58:20Z drmeister: No, I do not do that yet. 2015-03-18T19:58:32Z c74d is now known as Guest78696 2015-03-18T19:58:38Z drmeister: I was not aware that such a thing was done. 2015-03-18T19:58:40Z Guest78696 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-18T19:59:21Z drmeister: On the C++ side of things I do use type information heavily. 2015-03-18T19:59:22Z drmeister: So that would be possible. 2015-03-18T19:59:26Z oleo_ joined #lisp 2015-03-18T19:59:27Z drmeister: I do not use a generic T* pointer for everything. 2015-03-18T19:59:54Z drmeister: And actually, C++ functions return specific types. Like String_sp or Function_sp etc. 2015-03-18T19:59:54Z swflint quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-18T20:00:00Z drmeister: So - yeah - I could do that. 2015-03-18T20:00:15Z ehu: hmm. interesting. I'm bound to very strict types in ABCL. 2015-03-18T20:00:21Z pullphinger joined #lisp 2015-03-18T20:00:29Z ehu: What type of pointers *do* you use on the C++ side? 2015-03-18T20:00:40Z c74d3 joined #lisp 2015-03-18T20:00:41Z swflint joined #lisp 2015-03-18T20:01:02Z ehu: I'm assuming it's roughly as strict as Java. 2015-03-18T20:01:11Z Guest84466 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-18T20:01:13Z ehu: and probably just as inefficient. 2015-03-18T20:02:29Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T20:02:50Z Odin- likes his world to consist of C and Lisp. 2015-03-18T20:03:16Z ehu: Odin-: ABCL is there to reduce the world to Lisp everywhere :-) 2015-03-18T20:03:49Z Odin-: ehu: But it also requires me to think about the JVM now and then. :p 2015-03-18T20:04:09Z ehu: Odin-: you use ABCL? 2015-03-18T20:04:33Z ehu: or you mean that it reminds you of the existence of the JVM because that's where it runs? 2015-03-18T20:05:04Z Odin-: And if I interface with non-Lisp stuff, that's what I need to go through... 2015-03-18T20:05:07Z drmeister: I defined a tagged pointer class 2015-03-18T20:05:21Z ehu: drmeister: what's that? 2015-03-18T20:05:36Z ehu: drmeister: or rather: can you explain what that is? 2015-03-18T20:06:01Z c74d3 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-18T20:07:16Z c74d joined #lisp 2015-03-18T20:08:07Z ehu: drmeister: also, do you have a single function signature? or do you generate lots of different function signatures and resolve those at compile/call time? 2015-03-18T20:08:10Z drmeister: It's a c++ template class with a single pointer data member and no virtual functions 2015-03-18T20:08:22Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T20:09:14Z drmeister: Currently I have a single function signature but that will change. It will all be handled with template programming 2015-03-18T20:09:18Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T20:09:26Z ehu: which means that you get pointers to integers? 2015-03-18T20:10:21Z ehu: hmm. I don't think I can use that cleverness in the JVM. 2015-03-18T20:10:38Z linux_dream quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-18T20:11:14Z drmeister: No pointers to whatever type the tagged pointer template class is templates on 2015-03-18T20:11:29Z drmeister: Templated on 2015-03-18T20:11:57Z ehu: ABCL currently has 8 fixed function invocations and 1 return type. 2015-03-18T20:12:01Z drmeister: tagged_ptr 2015-03-18T20:12:26Z drmeister: that is a tagged pointer to a string object 2015-03-18T20:13:02Z ehu: that's what I understood. 2015-03-18T20:13:17Z ehu: do you have any "native" variables yet? 2015-03-18T20:13:34Z ehu: int, char, ... 2015-03-18T20:13:34Z ehu: ? 2015-03-18T20:15:37Z drmeister: It contains a single member variable: String_O* px; 2015-03-18T20:16:11Z zacharias_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-18T20:18:07Z mj-0 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T20:19:23Z drmeister: You mean objects that reside entirely within a pointer? Sure I have those. 2015-03-18T20:20:06Z jasom: Bicyclidine: I see what you mean about alexandria not having a macro lambda-list parser... I'll look at shinmera's 2015-03-18T20:20:32Z ehu: that was the question, yes. 2015-03-18T20:20:56Z ehu: I'm jealous at the time you seem to have available to spend on your implementation. 2015-03-18T20:21:05Z Shinmera: jasom: mine is intended for destructuring mostly, so if you need to do subtitution / reassembly, I'll have to add that. 2015-03-18T20:21:11Z drmeister: I don't fully utilize them yet. That's the next big job. 2015-03-18T20:21:51Z boogie quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-18T20:21:52Z ehu: you're doing what I'd like to do for ABCL: re-implement the compiler front-to-back. 2015-03-18T20:22:23Z jasom: Shinmera: I just need to remove the &whole and &environment parts so I can use destructuring-bind 2015-03-18T20:22:31Z jasom: well find and remove 2015-03-18T20:22:34Z Shinmera: jasom: that should work with mine then 2015-03-18T20:22:36Z boogie joined #lisp 2015-03-18T20:23:26Z jasom: I'm implementing get-setf-expansion for parenscript 2015-03-18T20:23:46Z drmeister: jasom: parse-macro does that. 2015-03-18T20:24:04Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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It's not in the CL package but it should be provided to assist macro writers. 2015-03-18T20:25:22Z jumblerg joined #lisp 2015-03-18T20:28:15Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2015-03-18T20:28:39Z agumonkey joined #lisp 2015-03-18T20:28:45Z xan_ joined #lisp 2015-03-18T20:30:48Z selat quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2015-03-18T20:33:21Z jasom: hmm I wish there were a trivial-parse-macro to make it portable 2015-03-18T20:36:46Z {-}grant joined #lisp 2015-03-18T20:37:01Z {-}grant- joined #lisp 2015-03-18T20:37:50Z antgreen quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-18T20:38:37Z antgreen joined #lisp 2015-03-18T20:39:12Z {-}grant quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-18T20:39:12Z {-}grant- quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-18T20:39:38Z Bicyclidine: introspect-environment has parse-macro 2015-03-18T20:40:18Z JokesOnYou77 joined #lisp 2015-03-18T20:40:28Z Bicyclidine: barring that it's usually just parse-macro in some package (sb-cltl2, ccl, ext off the top of my head) 2015-03-18T20:40:29Z kushal quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-18T20:40:29Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-18T20:40:30Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-18T20:41:01Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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Seems like maybe there are some symbols exported which aren't listed in the DEFPACKAGE form.... 2015-03-18T21:49:04Z rpg: because ASDF treats this warning as indicating a failure in system loading and throws me into the debugger. 2015-03-18T21:50:11Z oleo_: seems in my case there was no pprint-dispatch-entries to be obeyed to, tho i have a defpackage cons-entry there.... 2015-03-18T21:50:19Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-03-18T21:50:22Z oleo_: hmm 2015-03-18T21:51:11Z rpg: is there any way to muffle these warnings, so they don't break the build? 2015-03-18T21:52:43Z holycow quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-18T21:53:24Z badkins quit 2015-03-18T21:53:38Z holycow joined #lisp 2015-03-18T21:54:01Z holycow is now known as Guest44312 2015-03-18T21:58:59Z urandom__ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2015-03-18T22:01:03Z aeth: Should emacs users use MELPA instead of Quicklisp for slime now? 2015-03-18T22:02:58Z Shinmera: melpa works fine for me, but so does quicklisp. Whichever works for you. 2015-03-18T22:03:39Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-03-18T22:04:02Z Xof joined #lisp 2015-03-18T22:09:05Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2015-03-18T22:12:37Z circeuser joined #lisp 2015-03-18T22:12:39Z jumblerg joined #lisp 2015-03-18T22:13:04Z angavrilov quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-18T22:13:22Z circeuser quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T22:13:51Z Ralt: Xach: ping 2015-03-18T22:16:34Z jasom: rpg: that should be only an issue when you load a system for the second time 2015-03-18T22:17:03Z rpg: jasom: Hm. I wonder if ASDF is screwing this up, then. 2015-03-18T22:17:29Z jasom: it's okay for you do to a (defpackage) and then later export some more symbols, but the next time it runs into the defpackage it will complain 2015-03-18T22:17:31Z rpg: I'm using :force :all on a system with a large number of subsystems, including IOLIB (hence CFFI). 2015-03-18T22:17:39Z {-}grant joined #lisp 2015-03-18T22:17:56Z jasom: so either there are two defpackage forms, or you're evaluating the same one twice 2015-03-18T22:18:15Z rpg: jasom: ASDF will do that: it will first compile the DEFPACKAGE and then LOAD it. 2015-03-18T22:19:04Z rpg: But there must be something odd about what I'm doing -- this is such a gross failure that I'd know it if it happened to lots of people. 2015-03-18T22:19:23Z Xach: Ralt: hi 2015-03-18T22:19:30Z xyh joined #lisp 2015-03-18T22:19:32Z Ralt: Xach: sent you an email instead :) 2015-03-18T22:19:54Z Xach: rpg: I don't think iolib is widely used. 2015-03-18T22:20:03Z jasom: rpg: that's not the issue, since clack uses annotations to export every symbol (so no :export in the defpackage) and it will load right the first time 2015-03-18T22:20:26Z rpg: Xach: But this is failing in CFFI, which I believe is widely used (isn't it?). 2015-03-18T22:20:38Z {-}grant quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T22:20:51Z Xach: rpg: I believe that too. 2015-03-18T22:22:25Z rpg: I see two things that could cause this (it's a test script): (1) loading with :FORCE :ALL or (2) use of TEST-SYSTEM (which may have its own ideas about needing to reload stuff). 2015-03-18T22:23:16Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-03-18T22:25:02Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-18T22:29:22Z robot-beethoven joined #lisp 2015-03-18T22:29:24Z oleo_: is there a wishlist for sbcl ? 2015-03-18T22:30:08Z oleo_: i'd like to see function definitions not only lambda-lists of'em when invoking describe..... 2015-03-18T22:32:33Z Ralt: oleo_: #sbcl 2015-03-18T22:32:46Z oleo_: ups 2015-03-18T22:32:49Z oleo_: k 2015-03-18T22:32:57Z rpg: trying to figure out what's causing the package variance... 2015-03-18T22:36:37Z Ralt: Xach: archive uses cffi's equivalent for win32 2015-03-18T22:36:51Z Ralt: (compat.lisp file) 2015-03-18T22:37:18Z Ralt: and didn't know sbcl had sb-posix:stat... 2015-03-18T22:37:48Z Xach: Ralt: no, it doesn't. 2015-03-18T22:37:56Z {-}grant joined #lisp 2015-03-18T22:38:16Z Ralt: (fli:define-foreign-function (stat32 "_stat32") 2015-03-18T22:38:24Z Xach: That is not equivalent to cffi. 2015-03-18T22:38:31Z Ralt: really? 2015-03-18T22:38:36Z Ralt: it heavily looks like it 2015-03-18T22:39:25Z rpg: The culprit for the PACKAGE-VARIANCE does, indeed, appear to be :FORCE :ALL. 2015-03-18T22:39:27Z Ralt: there's even (fli:define-c-struct _stat32 right after 2015-03-18T22:41:30Z rpg: And *there's* the smoking gun: if I blow away the cache and build w/o :force :all, I get no package variance. So :force :all has some behavior that does not agree with simply rebuilding from scratch. 2015-03-18T22:41:35Z cpc26 quit 2015-03-18T22:42:15Z rpg: jasom: Would you mind trying clack with (load-system "clack" :force :all)? 2015-03-18T22:43:21Z kami: Hello, I constantly get 'Unhandled memory fault at #x0' when calling a cffi-defined shared lib function. 2015-03-18T22:43:38Z kami: http://paste.lisp.org/+34XO 2015-03-18T22:43:53Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-18T22:44:26Z kami: Did I miss something obvious? 2015-03-18T22:44:30Z mrSpec quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T22:45:10Z kami: Do I have to (use-foreign-library libc)? 2015-03-18T22:45:34Z josemanuel quit (Quit: Saliendo) 2015-03-18T22:45:47Z nyef: kami: My best guess is that either that's the wrong syntax for DEFCFUN, or fopen() is returning NULL. 2015-03-18T22:47:45Z {-}grant quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-18T22:50:43Z keen____ joined #lisp 2015-03-18T22:53:05Z keen___ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-18T22:55:11Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。) 2015-03-18T22:56:04Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp 2015-03-18T22:57:50Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-18T22:58:25Z ejbs` quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-18T22:58:53Z kami: nyef: regarding the syntax, it expands to 2015-03-18T22:58:55Z kami: (cffi-sys:%foreign-funcall "testme" (:void) :convention :cdecl :library :default) 2015-03-18T23:00:17Z gklimowicz quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-18T23:00:24Z radioninja quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-18T23:00:29Z gklimowicz joined #lisp 2015-03-18T23:00:59Z a2015 quit (Quit: Page closed) 2015-03-18T23:03:12Z kami: nyef: thank you. The second argument to fopen was not "w", but "rw", so fopen returned NULL. 2015-03-18T23:03:25Z jumblerg joined #lisp 2015-03-18T23:03:30Z kami: Good night. 2015-03-18T23:03:33Z kami left #lisp 2015-03-18T23:07:12Z rpg quit (Quit: rpg) 2015-03-18T23:07:44Z paradoja quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-18T23:11:48Z dagnachewa joined #lisp 2015-03-18T23:12:28Z dfinninger quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-18T23:12:48Z radioninja joined #lisp 2015-03-18T23:13:11Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-03-18T23:15:03Z sunwukong quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-18T23:16:36Z xyh quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-18T23:20:28Z xyh joined #lisp 2015-03-18T23:21:26Z antonv: tet 2015-03-18T23:25:56Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-18T23:29:21Z gklimowicz quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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