2015-03-01T00:01:14Z vaporatorius quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-01T00:02:02Z sol__ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-01T00:04:20Z brian_o joined #lisp 2015-03-01T00:04:41Z paroneay` joined #lisp 2015-03-01T00:07:26Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-03-01T00:07:57Z zeitue joined #lisp 2015-03-01T00:08:22Z paroneayea quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-03-01T00:09:00Z gabriel_laddel joined #lisp 2015-03-01T00:11:47Z innertracks quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-01T00:18:04Z przl joined #lisp 2015-03-01T00:18:07Z pacon quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-01T00:18:55Z pacon joined #lisp 2015-03-01T00:20:22Z gingerale quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-03-01T00:22:51Z dafunktion joined #lisp 2015-03-01T00:23:34Z dafunktion quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-01T00:23:50Z dafunktion joined #lisp 2015-03-01T00:24:23Z Petit_Dejeuner: I want to do something like regexps, but not on chars. Like chunking with NLTK ( http://www.nltk.org/howto/chunk.html ). Does something like that already exist? 2015-03-01T00:24:46Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-01T00:25:08Z justanotheruser: Xach: yes 2015-03-01T00:25:47Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-01T00:27:34Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-03-01T00:27:40Z Petit_Dejeuner: For instance, a regexp for parsing a sentence would look like this. "
?*" And it would match one or zero determiners, zero or many adjectives, and then one noun. 2015-03-01T00:28:48Z Bike: i don't know of a library like that, but it's reasonably easy to do your own NFA regexes. 2015-03-01T00:28:52Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。) 2015-03-01T00:29:04Z Bike: especially since you presumably don't want the perl stuff so much. 2015-03-01T00:29:19Z Petit_Dejeuner: good guess 2015-03-01T00:30:07Z pacon quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-01T00:30:35Z Bike: um, maybe one of the more general parser libraries can work fine with that though. 2015-03-01T00:30:39Z pacon joined #lisp 2015-03-01T00:31:02Z Petit_Dejeuner: Any reccomendations? 2015-03-01T00:33:34Z LiamH quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-01T00:35:22Z pacon quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-01T00:35:56Z pacon joined #lisp 2015-03-01T00:36:27Z kcj joined #lisp 2015-03-01T00:37:05Z dkcl: Petit_Dejeuner: cl-ppcre 2015-03-01T00:38:11Z yaewa joined #lisp 2015-03-01T00:38:30Z Petit_Dejeuner: dkcl, I'm already using that to break up text, but I want a way to match sequences of words. 2015-03-01T00:38:42Z moei quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-01T00:39:06Z Petit_Dejeuner: '("How" "are" "you" "?") 2015-03-01T00:39:48Z dkcl has been writing such functions manually for a while, so he can't help there 2015-03-01T00:40:17Z dkcl: s/manually/himself/ 2015-03-01T00:42:36Z Petit_Dejeuner: Sorry, I'm so averse to doing actual work that writing code seems like a cop out now. 2015-03-01T00:48:02Z jlongster joined #lisp 2015-03-01T00:48:22Z stardiviner joined #lisp 2015-03-01T00:48:30Z stardiviner quit (Changing host) 2015-03-01T00:48:30Z stardiviner joined #lisp 2015-03-01T00:49:10Z brian_o quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-03-01T00:51:38Z pacon quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-01T00:52:24Z pacon joined #lisp 2015-03-01T00:55:34Z ruste_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-01T00:56:33Z ruste joined #lisp 2015-03-01T00:57:15Z pacon quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-01T00:57:53Z pacon joined #lisp 2015-03-01T00:59:20Z pjb quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-01T01:00:11Z pjb joined #lisp 2015-03-01T01:00:34Z pjb is now known as Guest49366 2015-03-01T01:00:39Z oleo joined #lisp 2015-03-01T01:01:25Z Guest49366 is now known as pjb` 2015-03-01T01:01:33Z pjb` is now known as pjb 2015-03-01T01:03:07Z ASau quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-01T01:03:29Z monod quit (Quit: Sto andando via) 2015-03-01T01:04:16Z taylanub quit (Disconnected by services) 2015-03-01T01:04:23Z taylanub joined #lisp 2015-03-01T01:07:58Z grantix joined #lisp 2015-03-01T01:10:06Z d4ryus_ joined #lisp 2015-03-01T01:13:26Z d4ryus quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-01T01:15:23Z phax joined #lisp 2015-03-01T01:19:41Z Xach: justanotheruser: yes? 2015-03-01T01:20:21Z przl joined #lisp 2015-03-01T01:20:46Z justanotheruser: Xach: misread your question. I mean (XOR (NOT 0b1010) (OR 0b0100 0b 1111)) 2015-03-01T01:21:04Z justanotheruser: nothing but the usual 2015-03-01T01:21:51Z dafunktion quit 2015-03-01T01:23:34Z dkcl: justanotheruser: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_logand.htm 2015-03-01T01:23:47Z Xach: justanotheruser: and supporting *only* that? 2015-03-01T01:24:55Z justanotheruser: dkcl: bitshifts too 2015-03-01T01:25:21Z Xach: Is it to make it really simple or something? 2015-03-01T01:25:28Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-01T01:26:30Z justanotheruser: Xach: somewhat 2015-03-01T01:26:37Z dkcl: justanotheruser: ASH is the function you're looking for 2015-03-01T01:27:30Z justanotheruser: dkcl: sorry, I combined your statement with Xaches. 2015-03-01T01:28:26Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2015-03-01T01:29:07Z grantix quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-01T01:29:49Z j0nii quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-01T01:31:35Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-01T01:32:01Z 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(Disconnected by services) 2015-03-01T03:48:59Z taylanub joined #lisp 2015-03-01T03:49:43Z dagnachewa quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-01T03:51:37Z k-dawg joined #lisp 2015-03-01T04:07:33Z badkins quit 2015-03-01T04:11:31Z brian_o joined #lisp 2015-03-01T04:14:05Z smokeink: (let ((half (round (/ x 2)))); how can i make sure half is an integer, not a real? 2015-03-01T04:14:57Z Bike: round always returns an integer. 2015-03-01T04:15:08Z theos quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-01T04:15:29Z smokeink: hmm 2015-03-01T04:15:29Z Bike: also, you can just do (round x 2). 2015-03-01T04:16:51Z nyef: clhs round 2015-03-01T04:16:52Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_floorc.htm 2015-03-01T04:18:35Z brian_o: (floor x 2) might have more intuitive behavior than (round x 2); floor always rounds down, whereas round will round toward even numbers 2015-03-01T04:22:53Z przl joined #lisp 2015-03-01T04:23:51Z k-dawg quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2015-03-01T04:24:19Z theos joined #lisp 2015-03-01T04:24:30Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-01T04:24:38Z brian_o: i've been struggling all day... 2015-03-01T04:24:48Z brian_o: (defun my-mult (vec) (* (elt vec 0) (elt vec 1))) 2015-03-01T04:24:52Z brian_o: (time (dotimes (i 100000) (my-mult (vector 200 400)))) 2015-03-01T04:24:55Z brian_o: 3,178,496 bytes consed 2015-03-01T04:25:18Z brian_o: i want this not to cons... 2015-03-01T04:26:13Z karswell quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-01T04:26:31Z brian_o: doesn't work: (declare (optimize (speed 3) (safety 0) (debug 0)) (type (simple-array (unsigned-byte 64) (2)) vec)) 2015-03-01T04:26:52Z brian_o: i'm new to this. i don't really know what i'm doing 2015-03-01T04:27:12Z Bike: brian_o: well, (vctor 200 400) is probably going to cons? 2015-03-01T04:27:31Z brian_o: ugh 2015-03-01T04:27:53Z brian_o: step 1. realize what the hell you're doing *facepalm* 2015-03-01T04:28:06Z beach joined #lisp 2015-03-01T04:28:17Z beach: Good morning everyone! 2015-03-01T04:28:27Z nyef: Hello beach. 2015-03-01T04:34:11Z grantix: beach: France? 2015-03-01T04:34:22Z grantix: It's almost 11pm in the Midwest US. 2015-03-01T04:34:36Z beach: Yes, France. 2015-03-01T04:35:31Z grantix: beach: Why are there so many Lispers from France? Like I might be ancedotally biased ... but it seems largely disproportionate. :^P 2015-03-01T04:35:43Z grantix: Is it common to be taught in schools, or something? 2015-03-01T04:36:17Z beach: I am guessing because CS departments grew out of math departments here, and Lisp was very interesting to mathematicians. Elsewhere CS grew out of EE. 2015-03-01T04:36:44Z grantix: Ah, that's an interesting hypothesis. 2015-03-01T04:37:00Z karswell joined #lisp 2015-03-01T04:37:21Z beach: pjb: probably knows more. 2015-03-01T04:37:36Z beach: er, grantix: pbj probably knows more. 2015-03-01T04:37:42Z nyef: Heh. 2015-03-01T04:37:49Z urandom__: here in Germany at my university math and CS are the same department, we learn at least some Racket 2015-03-01T04:37:56Z nyef: That's the second time recently I've seen the "pbj" typo. d-: 2015-03-01T04:38:30Z grantix: As someone who started programming with no real interest in maths, after some experience there in it and Lisp I've come fullcircle and started digging more seriously in general mathematics again. :^P 2015-03-01T04:39:09Z grantix: urandom__: I'm almost in the dead center of the US, and they teach C++ & Java, primarily. 2015-03-01T04:39:31Z brian_o: alright... non-cons, take 2 2015-03-01T04:39:32Z brian_o: (defun my-expt (vec) (expt (elt vec 0) (elt vec 1))) 2015-03-01T04:39:35Z brian_o: (let ((vec (vector 4 8))) (time (dotimes (i 10000) (my-expt vec)))) 2015-03-01T04:39:35Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-01T04:39:37Z smokeink: math is cool 2015-03-01T04:39:38Z brian_o: 5,144,576 bytes consed 2015-03-01T04:39:55Z Ethan- quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-01T04:40:01Z Ethan-_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-01T04:40:20Z beach: brian_o: What implementation? 2015-03-01T04:40:24Z brian_o: sbcl 2015-03-01T04:40:26Z grantix: smokeink: The way it is taught in US public education is horrible; It's always "solve for x, don't worry why you are doing this -- just be the computer". 2015-03-01T04:40:35Z nyef: I'd check what (expt 4 8) returns as a value, but I'm in the middle of a rebuild of my lisp environment. 2015-03-01T04:40:37Z smokeink: same in europe 2015-03-01T04:40:41Z grantix: I hated math, for years, because of this. 2015-03-01T04:40:56Z smokeink: yeah, me too! 2015-03-01T04:40:58Z grantix: Applied mathematics, I've found a recent lust to/with. 2015-03-01T04:41:17Z beach: brian_o: You might have to stick that (LET ...) in a function and compile it. 2015-03-01T04:41:26Z smokeink: i am eternally grateful to Khan for making www.khanacademy.com , learned a lot of cool maths from him 2015-03-01T04:41:29Z brian_o: see, what does that mean--earlier the compiler was telling me something about coercing return value... i didn't understand 2015-03-01T04:42:02Z brian_o: beach: can't i do some declare magic or something? 2015-03-01T04:42:04Z urandom__: grantix: seriously C++? that is only as an extra course here. You see some profs use Java, one uses Scala and some new one Python. Also R. 2015-03-01T04:42:23Z Bike: brian_o: functions can internally use "unboxed" values, like just having an integer in all of a register. but across function boundaries values may need to be "boxed", and making a boxed value from an unboxed one is an operation that has to be done. 2015-03-01T04:42:24Z beach: brian_o: Maybe. I am not an expert in the SBCL details. 2015-03-01T04:43:09Z beach: Bike: This is (expt 2 16) though. Should be a fixnum. 2015-03-01T04:43:15Z nyef: brian_o: Return value coercion is noted by the compiler when it has to do something potentially slow and/or consy because what it knows of the return type isn't "strong" enough to allow it to do anything it knows how to do that might be faster. 2015-03-01T04:43:22Z grantix: urandom__: To be fair, this is primarily and engineering school -- so maybe it's more applicable to the toolset they teach for EE. That being said, it's been horrid thusfar and I"m heavily looking into Rust as an offset to keep my sanity. 2015-03-01T04:44:05Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2015-03-01T04:44:07Z quazimod1 joined #lisp 2015-03-01T04:44:40Z brian_o: i thought the point of declare was to say that i, the programmer, am giving it extra "strong" knowledge so that it can wrap some kind of boxing/consing procedure around it 2015-03-01T04:44:54Z brian_o: *not wrap 2015-03-01T04:45:45Z cluck quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-01T04:45:54Z mhd quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2015-03-01T04:45:54Z mhd quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2015-03-01T04:45:59Z ggole joined #lisp 2015-03-01T04:46:16Z brian_o: bike: "across function boundaries values may need to be boxed" ... what do you mean "may"? 2015-03-01T04:46:44Z nyef: If you inline the function, they may not need to be boxed. 2015-03-01T04:50:22Z nyef: My first serious lisp program had a massive problem with boxing a lot of things. Part of the solution was to arrange to inline a lot of functions. 2015-03-01T04:51:18Z beach: nyef: In the code that brian_o showed us, it seems the return value is a fixnum. Why, then, is it consing? 2015-03-01T04:51:25Z nyef: Another was to move from CMUCL to SBCL, at a time when CMUCL didn't have support for "modular" arithmetic, and SBCL was just adding support for it. 2015-03-01T04:51:48Z nyef: beach: At a guess? The compiler doesn't know that it's a fixnum, only that it's an integer. 2015-03-01T04:51:54Z nyef: At best. 2015-03-01T04:52:11Z beach: nyef: So where is the consing? 2015-03-01T04:52:17Z nyef: Well, that's why it would ALLOW the consing. 2015-03-01T04:52:26Z brian_o: i just added (declaim (inline my-expt)) to the beginning. 0 bytes consed 2015-03-01T04:53:17Z nyef: Or it might have something to do with the implementation of EXPT when the compiler doesn't know enough to inline it. 2015-03-01T04:53:18Z beach probably isn't awake enough to understand. 2015-03-01T04:53:47Z brian_o: so that works i suppose, but i'm not sure i fully understand things yet... but it's a start. thanks so far... 2015-03-01T04:54:01Z nyef: With MY-EXPT inline, the compiler has enough information to know that the return value isn't used, and the arguments are (eql 4) (eql 8) or whatever they were... 2015-03-01T04:54:44Z beach: So inlining it may not even do the computation? 2015-03-01T04:54:56Z beach: brian_o: Sometimes it is indistinguishable from magic. 2015-03-01T04:55:35Z hiyosi quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-03-01T04:55:39Z beach: brian_o: Since you are not using the return value and since the computation has no side effects, it may very well be that the compiler discards the entire thing. 2015-03-01T04:55:58Z Bike: well once inlined it's (dotimes (i 10000) (expt (elt vec 0) (elt vec 1))). expt is pure so that's obviously (dotimes (i 10000) (progn (elt vec 0) (elt vec 1) nil)). elt doesn't have side effects so (dotimes (i 10000) nil) 2015-03-01T04:56:23Z beach: brian_o: In order to understand all the details, you need intimate knowledge of the particular compiler you are dealing with. 2015-03-01T04:56:41Z brian_o: so let's add a non-consing side-effect... 2015-03-01T04:57:59Z ggole: elt isn't pure, it does bounds checking 2015-03-01T04:58:18Z Bike: i said it has no side effects. 2015-03-01T04:58:44Z Bike: but you're right i guess it could signal an error, what a pain 2015-03-01T04:58:45Z ggole: Bounds checking is a side effect. 2015-03-01T04:58:48Z ggole: Yeah. 2015-03-01T04:58:59Z Bike: it doesn't have to, though 2015-03-01T04:59:01Z ggole: Unless the length of vec is known, that is 2015-03-01T04:59:14Z nyef: Inlined in that scenario, the length is known to be 2. 2015-03-01T04:59:26Z ggole: A smart compiler could hoist the check, and then the loop could be eliminated 2015-03-01T05:00:33Z ggole: Such checks need to be guarded by the same conditions that guard the loop (to avoid running them if the loop body never executes), but that is trivial here because of the known trip count 2015-03-01T05:01:09Z ggole: So... lots of caveats on what may or may not be optimized 2015-03-01T05:01:21Z beach: brian_o: In case you don't know how to interpret this exchange, in summary it means "I have no idea why it is consing here." 2015-03-01T05:03:17Z brian_o: hahaonlyserious 2015-03-01T05:05:01Z Intensity quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-01T05:07:28Z zeitue quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-01T05:09:26Z nowhere_man_ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2015-03-01T05:10:59Z nowhere_man_ joined #lisp 2015-03-01T05:12:29Z harish_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-01T05:12:57Z linux_dream quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-01T05:13:52Z harish joined #lisp 2015-03-01T05:14:34Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-01T05:14:46Z beach: brian_o: What is it that you are working on? 2015-03-01T05:15:53Z brian_o: big picture: i'm trying to learn Common Lisp; immediate project: a few combinatorics functions 2015-03-01T05:16:49Z brian_o: i have a combination generator that works but i was trying to optimize it for speed 2015-03-01T05:17:11Z beach: I see. 2015-03-01T05:18:12Z brian_o: i'm using the generator in the context of some projecteuler.net problems 2015-03-01T05:18:22Z Bike: is the problem actually little stuff like that? combinatorics lends itself to mathematical expressions that are "elegant" but amazingly inefficient. 2015-03-01T05:19:25Z brian_o: do i NEED to optimize for speed, no. but i'd like to know how, because i keep reading about how lisp can be super fast if it's optimized. seemed like a challenge and something cool to learn about 2015-03-01T05:20:16Z huza joined #lisp 2015-03-01T05:20:23Z beach: brian_o: That's great! 2015-03-01T05:20:45Z beach: brian_o: Some stuff is pretty general, other stuff is complicated and very implementation dependent. 2015-03-01T05:20:47Z zeitue joined #lisp 2015-03-01T05:20:51Z brian_o: i have "elegant" (short) but amazingly inefficient code, but i also have a generator that's pretty lean. in theory it shouldn't need to do much consing at all, but in practice, it's consing a lot 2015-03-01T05:23:56Z brian_o: i'm pretty sure it's some kind of boxing thing like you were saying, because i'm not creating any unnecessary lists or data structures--it keeps destructively altering the few ones i create at the beginning 2015-03-01T05:24:55Z ggole: Things like large numbers, floats and closures can result in consing too 2015-03-01T05:24:58Z ggole: Not just "data structures" 2015-03-01T05:25:12Z sivoais quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-01T05:25:17Z quazimod1 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-01T05:25:22Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-01T05:25:54Z beach: brian_o: In your example there should be no "boxing" because (expt 4 8) is a fixnum which can be represented in the pointer itself. 2015-03-01T05:27:20Z brian_o: right, i think i've tackled the obvious list/data-structure part. i'm not using floats or extra closures (i think). so it might be a bignum thing, or a boxing thing. i'm trying to lock down my other functions 2015-03-01T05:27:24Z Bike: well, the first thing in the disassembly is a call to "thread.alloc-region", which makes me think it's not a numeric allocation since that's probably in generic-expt or whatnot 2015-03-01T05:27:58Z nyef: (time (locally (declare (notinline expt)) (dotimes (i 100000) (expt 4 8)))) => 51 megs consed. 2015-03-01T05:28:02Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2015-03-01T05:28:11Z quazimod1 joined #lisp 2015-03-01T05:28:36Z PaulCapestany quit (Quit: .) 2015-03-01T05:29:19Z beach: nyef: Aha! So it is probably EXPT itself? 2015-03-01T05:29:29Z nyef: (time (dotimes (i 100000) (sb-kernel::intexp 4 8))) => same. 2015-03-01T05:29:30Z nyef: Yes. 2015-03-01T05:29:41Z wooden: when i evaluate an expression in the 'slime-repl sbcl' buffer in emacs, the output goes to the *Messages* buffer. is there a way to make it go to the 'slime-repl sbcl' buffer instead? 2015-03-01T05:29:58Z Bike: odd, i thought it just did regular division by two exponentiation, or whatever it's called 2015-03-01T05:30:01Z nyef: I suggested this as a possibility something like 35 minutes ago. 2015-03-01T05:30:22Z PaulCapestany joined #lisp 2015-03-01T05:30:58Z beach: nyef: Sorry! :( 2015-03-01T05:31:45Z Bike: how is intexp consing? it calls generic-* and stuff but i thought those could return fixnums. 2015-03-01T05:33:31Z nyef: I have no idea, but that looks like a good next step to dig into. 2015-03-01T05:34:02Z nyef: None of the calls to generic-* should return more than 65536. 2015-03-01T05:34:27Z nyef: There's also the ASH calls, but I don't know if anything intelligent happens with them. 2015-03-01T05:34:45Z nyef: Is this x86, x86-64, or some other platform? 2015-03-01T05:34:56Z nyef: Oh, wait, happens on my system, x86-64 it is. 2015-03-01T05:36:06Z sivoais joined #lisp 2015-03-01T05:36:09Z brian_o: mine is x86-64 2015-03-01T05:37:47Z nyef: Doesn't look like GENERIC-* should be consing here... 2015-03-01T05:38:01Z nyef: Wait, it's using GENERIC-*? 2015-03-01T05:38:16Z nyef: No, that's right. It shouldn't be consing there. 2015-03-01T05:38:19Z nyef: Maybe the ASH? 2015-03-01T05:38:42Z Jesin joined #lisp 2015-03-01T05:39:04Z Bike: the ash is starting with 8 and going to 4, if it's consing something's pretty messed up 2015-03-01T05:40:18Z PinealGlandOptic quit (Quit: leaving) 2015-03-01T05:40:46Z nyef: Right, that ASH doesn't look like it conses either. 2015-03-01T05:41:40Z tmch quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-03-01T05:44:18Z nyef: (time (dotimes (i 100000) (locally (declare (notinline *)) (* 256 256)))) = > 2015-03-01T05:44:21Z nyef: no consing. 2015-03-01T05:44:39Z gravicappa joined #lisp 2015-03-01T05:46:54Z Bike: on my system it conses for 21 iterations but not 20, is that just a granularity thing in TIME? 2015-03-01T05:47:25Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-03-01T05:47:35Z innertracks quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-01T05:47:49Z shum quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1) 2015-03-01T05:48:41Z nyef: Bike: TIME can't track allocation if the GC alloc region doesn't fill up. 2015-03-01T05:49:03Z nyef: It may also get confused if another thread happens to do any consing, IIRC. 2015-03-01T05:49:23Z Bike: so that's a yes, ok. 2015-03-01T05:50:39Z brian_o: wooden: are you having trouble in the normal case? just evaluating at the REPL? or are you saying that you're working in the buffer, and you want to go back and re-eval something [manually], and the output is going to *messages* 2015-03-01T05:52:23Z nyef: Okay, I give up. I have no idea which part of this mess is consing. 2015-03-01T05:52:40Z nyef: It's also coming up on 1 AM, and I'd like to get some sleep. 2015-03-01T05:53:05Z Bike: seeya. 2015-03-01T05:53:10Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2015-03-01T05:53:12Z brian_o: thanks for your help 2015-03-01T05:53:42Z tmch joined #lisp 2015-03-01T05:53:44Z wooden: brian_o: if i type (+ 1 2) in the '*slime-repl sbcl*' buffer and press enter, it gets evaluated correctly, but the output goes to *Messages*. i would rather see it as a new line in the '*slime-repl sbcl*' buffer so i have the history of what was entered and the results in the same buffer. 2015-03-01T05:53:56Z nyef quit (Quit: G'night all) 2015-03-01T05:56:03Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-01T05:56:38Z quazimod1 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-01T05:56:54Z Bike: (locally (declare (notinline oddp)) (time (dotimes (i 100000) ((lambda (n) (oddp n)) 8)))) conses twelve megs but i think intexp inlines 2015-03-01T05:58:21Z brian_o: wooden: the desired behavior you're describing sounds like the normal behavior i have. i didn't do anything special, it came that way with a seemingly default install. i'm no slime expert, but maybe something is misconfigured in yours? 2015-03-01T05:58:56Z brian_o: i type (+ 1 2) and i get 3 on the line below and then the next line is a new REPL prompt 2015-03-01T05:58:58Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2015-03-01T05:59:00Z quazimod1 joined #lisp 2015-03-01T05:59:41Z wooden: brian_o: hmm. yes, that's what i want. guess i'll keep looking. thank you. 2015-03-01T06:00:16Z brian_o: maybe just try a reinstall? or download lispbox, and then you could at least confirm that it does what you want 2015-03-01T06:01:41Z wooden: brian_o: oooh, i'm wrong. if i type in the *slime-repl sbcl* buffer i do get the results in that buffer, but if i send (+ 2 2) from another buffer by pressing C-M-x the result goes to *Messages*. 2015-03-01T06:04:21Z brian_o: gotcha. just to be clear, you output goes into the *messages* buffer? mine goes to the minibuffer at the bottom (or maybe i'm confused about emacs terminology) 2015-03-01T06:04:43Z ggole: From another buffer? One in slime mode? 2015-03-01T06:05:10Z ggole: (Messaging both appends to *messages* and prints in the minibuffer, by the way.) 2015-03-01T06:05:28Z bgs100 quit (Quit: bgs100) 2015-03-01T06:05:47Z wooden: brian_o: i guess it's what ggole says. i see it at the bottom in the minibuffer, but it's also in *Messages* if i open that. 2015-03-01T06:05:48Z ggole: I suspect you are using the emacs lisp C-M-x 2015-03-01T06:06:14Z ggole: Slime does co-opt C-M-x in the buffers that it is active in 2015-03-01T06:06:30Z ggole: C-h c C-M-x will tell you which one 2015-03-01T06:06:44Z ggole: er, which one is current 2015-03-01T06:07:04Z wooden: ggole: "C-M-x runs the command slime-eval-defun" 2015-03-01T06:07:43Z grantix quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-01T06:07:49Z ggole: In which buffer? The "other buffers" from which you are sending these (+ 2 2)s? 2015-03-01T06:07:50Z brian_o: what about slime-eval-last-expression? 2015-03-01T06:08:15Z eschatologist joined #lisp 2015-03-01T06:09:07Z wooden: ggole: i have a file open -- "scratchpad.lisp" -- and i want to send arbitrary bits of it to sbcl and see the bits and their output in the slime-repl window, but all the output goes to the minibuffer and *messages* instead of the slime-repl buffer. 2015-03-01T06:09:53Z ggole: Yeah, that should just work (assuming this file is open in lisp-mode) 2015-03-01T06:10:10Z ggole: If it doesn't something is very busted 2015-03-01T06:10:22Z thail` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-03-01T06:10:50Z przl joined #lisp 2015-03-01T06:11:27Z wooden: ggole: the file is open in lisp mode. thanks for the help. i will try reinstalling everything, i guess. 2015-03-01T06:12:07Z beach: wooden: How did you install SLIME? 2015-03-01T06:12:57Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-01T06:13:00Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-01T06:13:01Z eschatologist: Is anyone around who's built Mezzano? I'm stumbling on what seems like it should be simple ASDF setup. 2015-03-01T06:13:52Z wooden: beach: built emacs current from source, installed slime from melpa, but it complains about swank being a different version. guess i'll go back to emacs 23 which is what the distro provides. 2015-03-01T06:14:20Z beach: wooden: We usually recommend you install SLIME using Quicklisp. 2015-03-01T06:14:39Z eschatologist: In essence: I can't figure out what I need to do to set up ASDF+QuickLisp in sbcl 1.2.9 such that (ql:quickload :lispos-file) will work. 2015-03-01T06:14:53Z wooden: beach: that's what i did in the end. installed from quicklisp and am loading that, but i still get the warning about swank being an older version. 2015-03-01T06:15:20Z yeticry joined #lisp 2015-03-01T06:15:51Z beach: wooden: OK. I don't know much about SLIME other than as a user. I just thought I would check. 2015-03-01T06:15:52Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-03-01T06:18:35Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/) 2015-03-01T06:20:28Z brian_o: wooden: https://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/slime.pdf -- bottom of page 28. section 7.2 2015-03-01T06:20:38Z brian_o: that _might_ be what you're looking for... 2015-03-01T06:20:54Z brian_o: i'm about to try it myself... 2015-03-01T06:21:54Z Quadrescence: beach, where is info about your World's Greatest Bit Reversal? 2015-03-01T06:22:33Z beach: Quadrescence: It's a non-free paper. Let me find it... 2015-03-01T06:22:51Z Quadrescence: :/ 2015-03-01T06:24:29Z beach: Robert Strandh and Anne C. Elster, "A Very Fast Recursive Bit-Reversal Algorithm", SIAM CSE'00: First SIAM Conference on Computational Science and Engineering, Washington, D.C., Sep 21-24, 2000 2015-03-01T06:25:41Z wooden: brian_o: no, that hasn't worked. i found that and tried it early on. now i've just tried setting it in ~/.swank.lisp, as recommended in the pdf, but the behavior is the same. 2015-03-01T06:26:16Z brian_o: yeah, didn't work for me either. i'm still looking through the manual 2015-03-01T06:27:39Z Quadrescence: beach, when I google search that paper title, I see IRC logs of you responding to me asking that question in 2009. Interesting 2015-03-01T06:27:57Z beach: Heh! 2015-03-01T06:28:39Z Quadrescence: beach, I can't even find a portal for the non-free version 2015-03-01T06:28:41Z beach: I didn't save the code or the paper myself. I have been thinking many times I should re-implement it from scratch. 2015-03-01T06:29:09Z brian_o: wooden: C-c C-j is usually bound to slime-eval-last-expression-in-repl ; is that it? 2015-03-01T06:29:26Z beach: Quadrescence: Write to Anne and ask if she has a copy. 2015-03-01T06:29:39Z Quadrescence: beach, will do 2015-03-01T06:33:51Z flash- joined #lisp 2015-03-01T06:36:15Z ivan\ quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2015-03-01T06:36:49Z wooden: brian_o: no, i don't know what that's command is trying to do, but it's not helping. it seems even the default emacs 23 and slime install on debian 7 has the same behavior that i was seeing in my own build. 2015-03-01T06:38:24Z moei quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-01T06:38:46Z wooden: brian_o: ironically, vim+slimv works perfectly out of the box. i'm just trying to experiment with emacs since every time i mention vim or slimv in this channel people seem to go cold. :) 2015-03-01T06:39:00Z moei joined #lisp 2015-03-01T06:39:06Z brian_o: *goes cold* j/k 2015-03-01T06:39:47Z brian_o: do what you gotta do 2015-03-01T06:39:58Z Guthur joined #lisp 2015-03-01T06:40:02Z ivan\ joined #lisp 2015-03-01T06:40:02Z axion prefers slimv 2015-03-01T06:40:23Z brian_o: i really thought that slime-eval-last-expression-in-repl was what you were looking for, but i guess not 2015-03-01T06:44:23Z pizzadas joined #lisp 2015-03-01T06:44:57Z hvxgr quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-01T06:45:39Z rhllor joined #lisp 2015-03-01T06:47:32Z karswell quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-01T06:48:15Z wooden: brian_o: okay, actually, you're right. in an empty file with only (+ 1 2) in it, if i put the point after the expression, C-c C-j sends the expression to the slime-repl buffer and prints the result there. 2015-03-01T06:48:22Z karswell joined #lisp 2015-03-01T06:49:35Z brian_o: what about (+ 1 2 (+ 3 4)) -- depending on where you put the point, you can get either the inner or the whole form 2015-03-01T06:50:13Z urandom__ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2015-03-01T06:50:40Z wooden: brian_o: what is the binding to send the top-level form that the point is currently inside of? i thought it was C-M-x, but maybe i'm just using the wrong thing. 2015-03-01T06:52:07Z rhllor quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-01T06:54:16Z rhllor joined #lisp 2015-03-01T06:54:53Z cadadar joined #lisp 2015-03-01T06:54:53Z brian_o: i can't find a command for that. C-c C-c does something kind of like that, but doesn't evaluate it the way i think you're intending. you might have to roll your own 2015-03-01T06:56:17Z flash- quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-01T06:57:32Z vdamewood joined #lisp 2015-03-01T06:57:53Z devll quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-01T06:57:57Z wooden: brian_o: actually it says right here -- https://www.common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Evaluation.html -- that C-M-x eval's the toplevel form, but that the output goes to the "echo area", so i guess this is working as intended. 2015-03-01T06:57:58Z brian_o: possible algo: backward-sexp until scan error, backward-char, forward-sexp, slime-eval-last-expression-in-repl 2015-03-01T06:59:15Z brian_o: interesting 2015-03-01T07:01:13Z theos quit (Disconnected by services) 2015-03-01T07:01:39Z theos joined #lisp 2015-03-01T07:03:09Z wooden: brian_o: in slimv the equivalent function, SlimvEvalDefun, does the right thing as far as i'm concerned. the expression and its result end up in the REPL buffer. 2015-03-01T07:04:15Z brian_o: i smell a feature request 2015-03-01T07:04:25Z wooden: brian_o: thanks for walking through it with me. appreciated. 2015-03-01T07:04:43Z brian_o: np. bedtime for me 2015-03-01T07:08:34Z brian_o quit (Quit: brian_o) 2015-03-01T07:08:37Z segmond quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-01T07:10:24Z huza quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8) 2015-03-01T07:11:33Z przl joined #lisp 2015-03-01T07:15:18Z hvxgr joined #lisp 2015-03-01T07:16:49Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-01T07:17:48Z vdamewood quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 2015-03-01T07:20:43Z rhllor quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-01T07:21:00Z karswell quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-01T07:21:18Z segmond joined #lisp 2015-03-01T07:22:03Z karswell joined #lisp 2015-03-01T07:22:48Z rhllor joined #lisp 2015-03-01T07:24:53Z Harag joined #lisp 2015-03-01T07:25:24Z Harag quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-01T07:25:41Z Harag joined #lisp 2015-03-01T07:36:17Z Harag quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-01T07:36:26Z Harag1 joined #lisp 2015-03-01T07:36:48Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: edgar-rft) 2015-03-01T07:41:22Z pt1 joined #lisp 2015-03-01T07:42:44Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-01T07:46:59Z pjb: - 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I can't find a better way of doing it except defining custom TO-SQL-STRING and adding reader to that type. 2015-03-01T11:46:22Z zeitue joined #lisp 2015-03-01T11:52:15Z lostboy joined #lisp 2015-03-01T11:52:38Z lostboy: Hi. anybody knows how can I get a function to fold automatically in javascript with some keybinding? 2015-03-01T11:53:06Z Shinmera: This channel is not for Javascript. 2015-03-01T11:54:46Z pacon quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-01T11:56:56Z lostboy left #lisp 2015-03-01T11:57:06Z tharugrim joined #lisp 2015-03-01T11:57:25Z cadadar joined #lisp 2015-03-01T12:02:55Z shum joined #lisp 2015-03-01T12:02:59Z zadock joined #lisp 2015-03-01T12:04:06Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-03-01T12:04:36Z k-stz joined #lisp 2015-03-01T12:10:41Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-01T12:12:19Z Vutral joined #lisp 2015-03-01T12:12:25Z Vutral quit (Changing host) 2015-03-01T12:12:25Z Vutral joined #lisp 2015-03-01T12:13:28Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-01T12:14:03Z Blaguvest joined #lisp 2015-03-01T12:14:56Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-03-01T12:15:34Z k-dawg quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2015-03-01T12:16:12Z cadadar joined #lisp 2015-03-01T12:16:23Z monod quit (Quit: Sto andando via) 2015-03-01T12:21:49Z liqu0rice joined #lisp 2015-03-01T12:22:16Z Vutral_ joined #lisp 2015-03-01T12:29:42Z Ukari joined #lisp 2015-03-01T12:30:25Z adlai quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-01T12:32:28Z Xach quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-01T12:32:36Z Xach joined #lisp 2015-03-01T12:33:05Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2015-03-01T12:35:29Z {0}grant: Are there any noted instances of Movitz running on real metal? 2015-03-01T12:36:02Z {0}grant: I have a spare x86 box, that I want to dedicate to it or either "Dream Scheme OS". 2015-03-01T12:37:23Z {0}grant: I can't even find an active/working link for source of it. 2015-03-01T12:39:05Z diginet quit (Quit: diginet has quit!) 2015-03-01T12:40:01Z JuanDaugherty: this is not js channel but folds are maths/hard stuff 2015-03-01T12:41:21Z JuanDaugherty: {0}grant, last I knew it was just an intent 2015-03-01T12:41:41Z JuanDaugherty: but that was at least a couple ya 2015-03-01T12:41:47Z diginet joined #lisp 2015-03-01T12:42:07Z {0}grant: An "intent" as a long-term goal, but not something they stated they support at all? 2015-03-01T12:42:31Z JuanDaugherty: the whole lisp os languishes SFAIK, with most activity people lrynna run lisp machine images on a vm 2015-03-01T12:43:09Z schaueho quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-01T12:43:15Z JuanDaugherty: and a huge gap between base stuffs like iolib and that 2015-03-01T12:44:06Z {0}grant: JuanDaugherty: I mean, would you recommend such a thing to one with a general interest in Lisp Machine OSes -- but very, very little background in general OS design? 2015-03-01T12:44:54Z JuanDaugherty: such a thing as Movitz? SFAIK there's nothing to review, but as I said not followed closely 2015-03-01T12:45:21Z {0}grant: I mean, it doesn't look like it's been touched for 5 years or-so. 2015-03-01T12:45:45Z {0}grant: That being said, everything else I"ve found is just a scheme that directly maps to ASM, from what I can tell. 2015-03-01T12:45:57Z {0}grant: I know Dream Scheme does this -- not sure about Armpit. 2015-03-01T12:46:36Z JuanDaugherty: yeah needs a pack, and mostly only lone wolves take on such stuff, have ideas on this myself 2015-03-01T12:48:05Z {0}grant: I'll probably mess with Dream Scheme OS, assuming I can find a copy of the builder implementation ... which has proven troublesome, because the codebase seems a lot simpler for a near-complete "noob". 2015-03-01T12:48:18Z JuanDaugherty: eventually we'd get a scheme channel reference as this is supposed to be a cl channel 2015-03-01T12:48:30Z {0}grant: JuanDaugherty: Yeah, fair. 2015-03-01T12:48:56Z JuanDaugherty: but plenty here have interest in lisp os 2015-03-01T12:49:33Z Adlai joined #lisp 2015-03-01T12:49:37Z mishoo_ joined #lisp 2015-03-01T12:49:38Z {0}grant: It's very distraughting to me that these projects vanish in the ether and it becomes very hard to find complete source-trees of a lot of these attempts. 2015-03-01T12:50:28Z Quadrescence quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2015-03-01T12:51:25Z attila_lendvai: grant: try messing around with archive.org. if they offered some tgz at one point (as opposed to a git repo) then archive.org may have it. 2015-03-01T12:52:03Z {0}grant: attila_lendvai: I was able to get the "dreamos" tar, but the builder implementation are all 0 bytes. 2015-03-01T12:52:08Z {0}grant: :^P 2015-03-01T12:52:22Z {0}grant: Movtiz I was able to grab from github, from a mirror. 2015-03-01T12:54:37Z attila_lendvai: it's a pity indeed. archive.org should grow a repo crawler, and people should upload stuff to github and the likes... nag the authors if you can reach them. I've seen too many hard drives dying... (and even I lost programs I wrote for Amiga back in my childhood, but then it was more of a cost issue for the backup, and the lack of perspective) 2015-03-01T12:54:44Z frkout quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-03-01T12:55:10Z {0}grant: I'll probably try if I can find "David Stith" 's email, I suppose. 2015-03-01T12:56:33Z {0}grant: I found his sourceforge, no activity for 3 years and no email. 2015-03-01T12:59:37Z {0}grant: What a bummer. 2015-03-01T12:59:40Z {0}grant: :^P 2015-03-01T13:05:47Z {0}grant: Well, I'll look into it bit more -- likely after I take (or at least attempt) a bit of a nap. o/ 2015-03-01T13:09:33Z tharugrim quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2-dev) 2015-03-01T13:09:48Z Harag1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-01T13:09:59Z Harag joined #lisp 2015-03-01T13:11:09Z flash- joined #lisp 2015-03-01T13:12:10Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-03-01T13:15:16Z cadadar joined #lisp 2015-03-01T13:15:40Z cadadar quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-01T13:21:08Z munksgaard joined #lisp 2015-03-01T13:22:42Z pnpuff joined #lisp 2015-03-01T13:23:02Z LiamH joined #lisp 2015-03-01T13:23:08Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-01T13:24:37Z pnpuff left #lisp 2015-03-01T13:25:58Z munksgaa1d joined #lisp 2015-03-01T13:27:04Z smokeink joined #lisp 2015-03-01T13:27:23Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-01T13:27:39Z ndrei joined #lisp 2015-03-01T13:29:37Z cadadar joined #lisp 2015-03-01T13:32:22Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-03-01T13:33:07Z smokeink joined #lisp 2015-03-01T13:33:57Z hardenedapple joined #lisp 2015-03-01T13:38:40Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp 2015-03-01T13:40:52Z smokeink quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-01T13:41:22Z pt1 joined #lisp 2015-03-01T13:45:03Z beach: {0}grant: I did run Movitz briefly on a real box. Just to make sure it worked. I was given a diskette to boot from. 2015-03-01T13:45:24Z nowhere_man_ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2015-03-01T13:46:37Z nowhere_man_ joined #lisp 2015-03-01T13:47:13Z beach: {0}grant: For ideas on OS design based on the Lisp experience (rather than the Unix experience), you might want to read this page: http://metamodular.com/Common-Lisp/lispos.html 2015-03-01T13:48:04Z smokeink joined #lisp 2015-03-01T13:48:56Z beach: {0}grant: Movitz was not a "dream OS". Think of it as a proof-of-concept implementation that shows that it is feasible to run a Lisp system without any underlying operating system. 2015-03-01T13:50:26Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-01T13:52:42Z gniourf quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-01T13:56:02Z hitecnologys: Shinmera: are there any clear examples of UC usage (because in radiance the code is sacttered all around the projects) so I can see how things are intended to be used (because, well, I'm getting a feeling that I'm doing it wrong)? 2015-03-01T13:56:10Z gniourf joined #lisp 2015-03-01T14:00:08Z pt1 joined #lisp 2015-03-01T14:01:23Z shum quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1) 2015-03-01T14:01:28Z dis-pyon-tinuous quit (Quit: I'm sorry but... I don't have any interest in three-dimensional girls.) 2015-03-01T14:01:47Z shum joined #lisp 2015-03-01T14:03:08Z f03lipe joined #lisp 2015-03-01T14:03:56Z shum quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-01T14:04:15Z shum joined #lisp 2015-03-01T14:04:18Z flash- quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-01T14:05:31Z BitPuffin joined #lisp 2015-03-01T14:08:34Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-01T14:09:13Z Patzy joined #lisp 2015-03-01T14:09:34Z EvW joined #lisp 2015-03-01T14:11:59Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-01T14:13:19Z jleija joined #lisp 2015-03-01T14:14:08Z pyon joined #lisp 2015-03-01T14:14:50Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2015-03-01T14:16:22Z justanotheruser quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-03-01T14:17:06Z Oddity quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-01T14:17:17Z justanotheruser joined #lisp 2015-03-01T14:17:47Z oleo is now known as Guest65749 2015-03-01T14:18:22Z jleija quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-03-01T14:19:36Z oleo__ joined #lisp 2015-03-01T14:20:28Z LiamH1 joined #lisp 2015-03-01T14:20:38Z jleija joined #lisp 2015-03-01T14:21:24Z Guest65749 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-01T14:23:13Z ASau joined #lisp 2015-03-01T14:24:13Z LiamH quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-01T14:27:49Z LiamH joined #lisp 2015-03-01T14:28:24Z f03lipe quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-01T14:29:09Z f03lipe joined #lisp 2015-03-01T14:31:22Z smokeink quit (Quit: Angelic v4.4 - http://angelic.flexnet.org) 2015-03-01T14:31:37Z LiamH1 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-01T14:31:56Z munksgaa1d: Say I've got an asdf system (made using quickproject), what's the best way to go about executing it in a script-like fashion? 2015-03-01T14:32:10Z munksgaa1d: sbcl --script foo.lisp obviously doesn't work, since the package hasn't been defined yet. 2015-03-01T14:33:39Z hitecnologys: munksgaa1d: if you don't care abound size, load it and (save-lisp-and-die "foo" :toplevel #'your:entry-point :executable t). 2015-03-01T14:33:41Z ASau quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-01T14:34:29Z hitecnologys: munksgaa1d: if you do or you need to reload code each time it's run, then write a wrapper. 2015-03-01T14:36:26Z ASau joined #lisp 2015-03-01T14:37:06Z hitecnologys: munksgaa1d: keep in mind though that the second option will take significantly longer to run since compilation is quite slow compared to exectution. 2015-03-01T14:37:35Z finnrobi quit (Quit: swapping server) 2015-03-01T14:39:01Z munksgaa1d: hitecnologys: Alright, I'll see what I can do. Thanks :) 2015-03-01T14:42:13Z oleo__ quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2015-03-01T14:43:12Z oleo__ joined #lisp 2015-03-01T14:43:57Z jackdaniel: munksgaa1d: there is very good utility for unix cl-launch 2015-03-01T14:44:03Z oleo__ is now known as oleo 2015-03-01T14:44:04Z jackdaniel: portable across lisp implementations 2015-03-01T14:45:04Z shum quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1) 2015-03-01T14:45:30Z jackdaniel: munksgaa1d: consult http://stackoverflow.com/questions/9796353/writing-common-lisp-code-that-executes-from-the-command-line-but-not-inside-the/28360935#28360935 2015-03-01T14:45:41Z shum joined #lisp 2015-03-01T14:49:35Z finnrobi joined #lisp 2015-03-01T14:52:18Z rhllor joined #lisp 2015-03-01T14:52:51Z thail joined #lisp 2015-03-01T14:56:22Z dagnachewa joined #lisp 2015-03-01T14:56:22Z justanotheruser quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-03-01T14:57:15Z justanotheruser joined #lisp 2015-03-01T15:04:04Z rhllor quit (Quit: rhllor) 2015-03-01T15:14:26Z Ethan- quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-01T15:14:37Z scymtym joined #lisp 2015-03-01T15:14:49Z Ethan-_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-01T15:24:00Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-01T15:24:28Z shka joined #lisp 2015-03-01T15:24:35Z shka: hi all 2015-03-01T15:24:48Z beach: Hello shka. 2015-03-01T15:25:07Z shka: so, i have a fairly silly question 2015-03-01T15:25:10Z nyef joined #lisp 2015-03-01T15:25:21Z shka: i'm writing web application and i'm caching web pages 2015-03-01T15:25:25Z nyef: G'morning all. 2015-03-01T15:25:26Z beach: Hello nyef. 2015-03-01T15:25:45Z shka: i have class called object-with-page-cache 2015-03-01T15:25:48Z shka: or something like this 2015-03-01T15:26:01Z shka: so i wanted to add new class called generator 2015-03-01T15:26:04Z therik quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-01T15:26:31Z shka: can i somehow ask clos to run least specific methods befor most specifics? 2015-03-01T15:26:34Z therik joined #lisp 2015-03-01T15:26:55Z shka: so i will first run method for object-with-page-cache 2015-03-01T15:27:12Z beach: mop c-e-m 2015-03-01T15:27:12Z specbot: compute-effective-method: http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/compute-effective-method.html 2015-03-01T15:27:23Z shka: beach: thank you, sir 2015-03-01T15:27:27Z beach: shka: You can write your own method on that generic function. 2015-03-01T15:28:33Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-01T15:28:39Z shka: beach: btw, did i mentioned that metamodular name is awesome? 2015-03-01T15:29:35Z beach: shka: Thanks. 2015-03-01T15:30:06Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2015-03-01T15:31:10Z Ralt: Shinmera: pin 2015-03-01T15:31:13Z Ralt: g 2015-03-01T15:33:21Z sol__: how can i determine if a socket is a server socket or client socket (usocket)? 2015-03-01T15:34:02Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-01T15:34:05Z shka: sol__: not usocket specific, but not sure if this distinction makes any sense on low level 2015-03-01T15:34:35Z nyef: If you've lost track of which it is, you're doing something wrong? 2015-03-01T15:34:43Z Patzy joined #lisp 2015-03-01T15:37:00Z psy joined #lisp 2015-03-01T15:38:55Z Guthur quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-01T15:40:11Z jleija quit (Quit: leaving) 2015-03-01T15:41:26Z arenz joined #lisp 2015-03-01T15:42:38Z corehello joined #lisp 2015-03-01T15:44:49Z gravicappa joined #lisp 2015-03-01T15:46:58Z corehello quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-01T15:47:27Z arenz quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-01T15:47:37Z Xaving joined #lisp 2015-03-01T15:48:37Z Ralt: Shinmera: I have to use #_delete to be able to delete a layout item... q+:delete fails :/ 2015-03-01T15:49:10Z corehello joined #lisp 2015-03-01T15:50:42Z dkcl quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-01T15:51:34Z corehello quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-01T15:54:27Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-01T15:54:44Z corehello joined #lisp 2015-03-01T15:55:46Z ehu quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-03-01T15:56:02Z corehello quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-01T16:03:24Z GGMethos quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-01T16:05:19Z drmeister: beach: I figured out where the 10x speedup number came from. 2015-03-01T16:05:36Z drmeister: My DEFUN has not been compiling functions. 2015-03-01T16:06:28Z drmeister: That comparison was between my interpreted code and the Cleavir-Clasp compiled code. 2015-03-01T16:07:06Z haom joined #lisp 2015-03-01T16:08:05Z GGMethos joined #lisp 2015-03-01T16:12:56Z GGMethos quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-01T16:13:49Z nyef: drmeister: So, what's the actual number? 2015-03-01T16:14:19Z drmeister: The Cleavir/Clasp generated code runs in 0.86 of the time of the Clasp generated code. 2015-03-01T16:14:33Z edgar-rft joined #lisp 2015-03-01T16:15:23Z drmeister: But... when I've been saying that Clasp is 100-500x slower than SBCL. I may have been comparing Clasp interpreted code to SBCL compiled code. Clasp may be a lot faster than I thought - I may just not have been using it correctly. 2015-03-01T16:15:34Z Xach: shka: there's a bit on how to do that in practical common lisp 2015-03-01T16:15:53Z farhaven joined #lisp 2015-03-01T16:16:10Z drmeister: I am a bit shaken at the moment. 2015-03-01T16:16:26Z shka: Xach: i remember now 2015-03-01T16:16:28Z shka: thanks 2015-03-01T16:16:48Z drmeister: I may be running a lot more interpreted code than I thought after the compiler has been installed. 2015-03-01T16:16:54Z drmeister: I'm not sure yet. 2015-03-01T16:17:25Z shka: but in fact i want to actually return this value, so i think i have no choice but simply call-next-method before my primary method 2015-03-01T16:17:48Z shka: or actually, call-next-method in primary method, before doing everything else 2015-03-01T16:17:58Z shka: and actually check what was returned 2015-03-01T16:18:31Z shka: i probabbly should think about it for a second 2015-03-01T16:18:41Z flash- joined #lisp 2015-03-01T16:20:49Z Soft quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-01T16:22:53Z fourier joined #lisp 2015-03-01T16:25:45Z theos quit (Disconnected by services) 2015-03-01T16:25:47Z shka: ha 2015-03-01T16:25:58Z shka: Xach: thanks for pointing practial common lisp 2015-03-01T16:26:09Z shka: we have already solution :) 2015-03-01T16:26:15Z theos joined #lisp 2015-03-01T16:29:50Z Xach: it was one of the things that made me enjoy PCL so much 2015-03-01T16:31:59Z ebrasca joined #lisp 2015-03-01T16:32:56Z dkcl joined #lisp 2015-03-01T16:35:11Z shum quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1) 2015-03-01T16:35:24Z Soft joined #lisp 2015-03-01T16:35:36Z shum joined #lisp 2015-03-01T16:35:51Z shka: Xach: i was cheering to early though 2015-03-01T16:36:08Z shka: since i though that standard method combination can accept :most-specific-last 2015-03-01T16:36:10Z shka: but nope 2015-03-01T16:36:39Z shka: i can use progn though 2015-03-01T16:36:50Z shka: uh, no, i can't 2015-03-01T16:37:04Z schaueho joined #lisp 2015-03-01T16:37:10Z shka: well, i guess it is nice time to write my first custom method combination 2015-03-01T16:37:20Z shka: (yay) 2015-03-01T16:39:54Z Xach: jwacs ist tot? 2015-03-01T16:41:30Z shka: Xach: hopefully this was not for me 2015-03-01T16:41:36Z dkcl quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1) 2015-03-01T16:42:01Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-03-01T16:42:02Z dkcl joined #lisp 2015-03-01T16:42:36Z Xach: no. 2015-03-01T16:42:56Z Xach: jwacs is/was a cool project to add syntax to javascript. its website is busted right now. 2015-03-01T16:42:58Z akkad: does software ever truly die? re: xemacs 2015-03-01T16:44:25Z gko__ joined #lisp 2015-03-01T16:46:42Z wheelsucker joined #lisp 2015-03-01T16:47:34Z EvW joined #lisp 2015-03-01T16:48:21Z Xach: yes 2015-03-01T16:48:48Z nyef: "Live and learn, die and forget... Unless you're an Expert System." 2015-03-01T16:52:01Z antgreen quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-01T16:54:39Z Oddity joined #lisp 2015-03-01T16:55:02Z kushal joined #lisp 2015-03-01T16:55:09Z shum quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1) 2015-03-01T16:55:29Z shum joined #lisp 2015-03-01T16:55:30Z shum quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-01T16:56:02Z shum joined #lisp 2015-03-01T16:56:31Z shum quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-01T16:56:49Z shum joined #lisp 2015-03-01T16:57:27Z ndrei joined #lisp 2015-03-01T17:00:14Z dkcl quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-01T17:00:31Z kobain joined #lisp 2015-03-01T17:01:35Z shum quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-01T17:01:53Z shum joined #lisp 2015-03-01T17:02:26Z shum quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-01T17:02:42Z shum joined #lisp 2015-03-01T17:03:21Z shum quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-01T17:03:51Z shum joined #lisp 2015-03-01T17:06:07Z drmeister: What is supposed to happen when you COMPILE-FILE a DEFUN? 2015-03-01T17:06:24Z drmeister: (DEFUN foo (x y) (+ x y)) 2015-03-01T17:06:44Z drmeister: If I COMPILE-FILE a file that contains that - what happens at compile time? 2015-03-01T17:07:06Z Bike: defun is not required to perform any compile-time side effects. In particular, defun does not make the function definition available at compile time. An implementation may choose to store information about the function for the purposes of compile-time error-checking (such as checking the number of arguments on calls), or to enable the function to be expanded inline. 2015-03-01T17:07:58Z foom quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-01T17:09:08Z drmeister: But it is supposed to generate compiled code for the body of the DEFUN 2015-03-01T17:09:14Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-01T17:09:56Z Bike: not really a side effect (as in, something that affects the compiler state in a way that influences the compilation of the rest of the file), necessarily. 2015-03-01T17:10:10Z cmbntr quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) 2015-03-01T17:10:34Z drmeister: I'm worried right now that it's generating a load-time-value of the S-expression for the code and at load time, setting that up as an interpreted function. 2015-03-01T17:10:49Z drmeister: Right - it's not a side effect. 2015-03-01T17:11:21Z Bike: well, it's allowed to do that, as long as the s expression has all macros expanded and load-time-value working correctly. 2015-03-01T17:12:06Z drmeister: Right - but then when I load the "compiled" fasl file - I might be ending up with a whole mess of interpreted functions. 2015-03-01T17:12:46Z drmeister: The top-level form is compiled but all it may be doing is setting up a stupid interpreted function. 2015-03-01T17:13:17Z drmeister: I may be wrong about this - it's just a hypothesis at this point. 2015-03-01T17:14:59Z Bike: okay, so a way of thinking about defun is macroexpanding it. maybe your example expands into (progn (eval-when (:compile-toplevel) (sys::register-function-for-compiler 'foo '(x y))) (eval-when (:load-toplevel :execute) (setf (fdefinition 'foo) (lambda (x y) (+ x y))))) 2015-03-01T17:15:16Z taylanub quit (Disconnected by services) 2015-03-01T17:15:17Z Bike: so what you need to worry about is just what that second part does. 2015-03-01T17:15:24Z taylanub joined #lisp 2015-03-01T17:15:31Z therik quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-01T17:15:56Z therik joined #lisp 2015-03-01T17:16:10Z zacharias_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-03-01T17:16:33Z drmeister: Hmm, coming at it from a completely different direction - when I look at how many instances of InterpretedClosure I have vs CompiledClosure using (ROOM)... 2015-03-01T17:16:37Z schaueho quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-01T17:16:48Z drmeister: There are 13054 CompiledClosures and 51 InterpretedClosures. 2015-03-01T17:17:10Z drmeister: Bike: I'm reading and thinking about what you just wrote now. - thank you. 2015-03-01T17:17:48Z Bike: actually you don't need that second eval-when. 2015-03-01T17:18:41Z Bike: other things in the progn might be setting the documentation, inline expansion, etc. point is though that what you're compiling is just a lambda in all likelihood. 2015-03-01T17:19:45Z drmeister: Here is the definition of DEFUN that I use: It's in src/lisp/kernel/lsp/evalmacros.lsp 2015-03-01T17:19:49Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/lKbFtTst 2015-03-01T17:20:03Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-01T17:20:39Z Bike: looks complicated. 2015-03-01T17:20:50Z drmeister: No eval-when's in sight. 2015-03-01T17:20:53Z foom joined #lisp 2015-03-01T17:21:25Z Bike: well, some of that stuff could give you eval-whens. register-with-pde, say. 2015-03-01T17:21:46Z Bike: oh, i forgot defun returns the symbol name, well, fix my progn i guess 2015-03-01T17:22:11Z Bike: global-function could also be it, it has a declare too. 2015-03-01T17:22:28Z taylanub quit (Quit: Using Circe, the loveliest of all IRC clients) 2015-03-01T17:24:47Z drmeister: What I know now is that if I start up Clasp and type (DEFUN foo (x y) (+ x y)) at the REPL - I will get an interpreted function. 2015-03-01T17:25:24Z Bike: i think that's due to how ecl works. 2015-03-01T17:25:26Z drmeister: If I give the repl: (compile 'foo '(lambda (x y) (+ x y))) I will get a compiled function that runs 10x faster. 2015-03-01T17:25:51Z shum quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1) 2015-03-01T17:25:51Z drmeister: If in "cmprepl.lsp" I replace DEFUN with this: 2015-03-01T17:26:07Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/MhqW0R1K 2015-03-01T17:26:19Z shum joined #lisp 2015-03-01T17:26:43Z Bike: okay, wait, hang on a sec. 2015-03-01T17:26:53Z drmeister: Which explicitly calls COMPILE - then I run into problems when I COMPILE-FILE code containing DEFUNs. 2015-03-01T17:27:04Z Bike: i misread the original expansion. global-function is just executed in the macroexpander. which is weird, but also almost certainly does a compile time side effect. 2015-03-01T17:27:16Z Bike: what you're doing might call the compiler from within the macroexpander. 2015-03-01T17:28:08Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-01T17:28:21Z drmeister: The DEFUN I just posted certainly calls COMPILE from within the macro expander. Do you mean the previous definition of DEFUN? Sorry for being confusing. 2015-03-01T17:28:24Z alvis joined #lisp 2015-03-01T17:28:47Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-01T17:28:58Z Bike: i mean yours does and the previous one doesn't, yes. 2015-03-01T17:29:14Z drmeister: Right - that's how I read things as well. 2015-03-01T17:29:27Z Bike: ok, wait, you have this indented badly, global-function is a variable. sorry. 2015-03-01T17:29:59Z drmeister: Sorry! I used irccloud to paste - indenting is always screwed up. 2015-03-01T17:30:18Z drmeister: Hang on, let me redo these and rename them. 2015-03-01T17:30:44Z Bike: well, point is, this is going to expand into something like (progn (si::fset 'foo (lambda (x y) ...)) ...). 2015-03-01T17:30:57Z Bike: so what you need to do is have compile-file know to actually compile lambda expressions it sees. 2015-03-01T17:31:36Z Bike: i mean, if you wrote (setf (fdefinition 'foo) (lambda (x y) ...)) in a file and compiled it you'd expect that function to be compiled too, even though defun is not involved, yeah? 2015-03-01T17:31:57Z drmeister: You'd think I'd know this by now - where is a good place to paste Common Lisp code? irccloud and gist.github.com suck. 2015-03-01T17:31:59Z nyef: (defparameter *defun-compiles-functions* nil), then rebind it T in COMPILE-FILE ? 2015-03-01T17:32:06Z nyef: paste.lisp.org 2015-03-01T17:32:19Z nyef: And use the "Common Lisp" highlighting type. 2015-03-01T17:34:35Z drmeister: Grrr - so many hoops -- how is this? http://paste.lisp.org/display/146019 2015-03-01T17:36:01Z Bike: well, you missed the common lisp part, but oh well. 2015-03-01T17:36:06Z drmeister: Bike: LAMBDA should be a macro - could it compile itself? 2015-03-01T17:36:19Z Bike: no, look, macros should not be involved. 2015-03-01T17:36:39Z Bike: i could put (setf (fdefinition 'foo) (function (lambda (x y) ...))) 2015-03-01T17:37:25Z drmeister: Right - where should it do the compilation of (function (lambda ...) 2015-03-01T17:37:34Z Bike: you need your compiler, the actual form compiler thing, that walks through everything, to know that when it sees a lambda expression it oughta compile that shit. 2015-03-01T17:37:37Z khisanth_ is now known as Khisanth 2015-03-01T17:37:40Z zygentoma joined #lisp 2015-03-01T17:37:58Z nyef: drmeister: Looks like it'd have to be in the FUNCTION special form in that case. 2015-03-01T17:38:21Z pjb: defun should expand to (progn (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel) don't call compile) (eval-when (:execute) call compile)) 2015-03-01T17:38:34Z Bike: yeah, what nyef said works. 2015-03-01T17:39:08Z pjb: In anycase, defun has compile time effects that may be distinct from execution time effects. 2015-03-01T17:39:32Z justanot1eruser joined #lisp 2015-03-01T17:40:26Z justanotheruser quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-01T17:41:31Z jlongster joined #lisp 2015-03-01T17:41:57Z drmeister: So the FUNCTION special form should invoke the compiler once the compiler is available. 2015-03-01T17:42:22Z Shinmera: hitecnologys: I don't know? UC is rather straight forward in my mind. I can't tell you what you're supposedly doing wrong without knowing what you're doing. 2015-03-01T17:43:03Z Shinmera: Ralt: You shouldn't use delete at all. Use finalize. 2015-03-01T17:43:06Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2015-03-01T17:43:33Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-03-01T17:43:35Z drmeister: Right - and the compiler FUNCTION special form will do that. But the interpreter FUNCTION special form does not. 2015-03-01T17:43:40Z drmeister: And that's as it should be. 2015-03-01T17:44:17Z hitecnologys: Shinmera: I'm confused about the differences between CONFIG-TREE and ACCESS, and the fact whether I should use WITH-CONFIGURATION or just set UC:*CONFIG* directly if I need only one config loaded at a time. 2015-03-01T17:44:33Z drmeister: I think the only consequence here is that when you start up Clasp and you LOAD a file, all the DEFUN's will be interpreted. But once you start COMPILE-FILEing code it will be compiled. 2015-03-01T17:44:42Z zacharias joined #lisp 2015-03-01T17:45:15Z drmeister: Ok, everything is find and with a little thought I could improve DEFUN to compile it's body once the compiler is available. 2015-03-01T17:45:37Z drmeister: pjb: I think this is what I need to do. 2015-03-01T17:46:50Z Shinmera: hitecnologys: Setting UC:*CONFIG* directly is what you do when you have only one. ACCESS is for a single level, while CONFIG-TREE takes a list of accessors. (config-tree foo bar baz) => (access (access (access uc:*config* foo) bar) baz) 2015-03-01T17:47:13Z mishoo joined #lisp 2015-03-01T17:47:30Z hitecnologys: Shinmera: oh, I see. Thanks. 2015-03-01T17:47:56Z Shinmera: WITH-CONFIGURATION doesn't do anything but bind UC:*CONFIG*. 2015-03-01T17:48:14Z hitecnologys: Yeah, I know that. That was mostly style question. 2015-03-01T17:50:39Z shka: what does the error method: 2015-03-01T17:50:40Z shka: is applicable, but does not belong to any method groupY 2015-03-01T17:50:45Z shka: oops 2015-03-01T17:50:46Z fantazo joined #lisp 2015-03-01T17:51:02Z shka: i wanted to ask: 2015-03-01T17:51:05Z shka: method: 2015-03-01T17:51:07Z shka: is applicable, but does not belong to any method groupY 2015-03-01T17:51:17Z shka: what does this error actually says? 2015-03-01T17:52:05Z Bike: um, good question. what's the method combination? does the method have qualifiers? 2015-03-01T17:52:09Z oleo quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2015-03-01T17:52:12Z shka: it does 2015-03-01T17:52:19Z shka: let me paste on lisp pastes 2015-03-01T17:53:39Z shka: http://paste.lisp.org/display/146021 2015-03-01T17:53:44Z shka: here 2015-03-01T17:54:03Z shka: my best guess is that somehow my primary methods are not primary anymore 2015-03-01T17:54:26Z Bike: I think what this means is that you have a method with the correct specialization, but the qualifiers don't match your method combination. 2015-03-01T17:55:20Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-01T17:55:56Z kraison1 joined #lisp 2015-03-01T17:56:01Z kraison quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-01T17:56:32Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-01T17:57:22Z Blaguvest quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-01T17:58:26Z ndrei joined #lisp 2015-03-01T17:58:46Z GGMethos joined #lisp 2015-03-01T18:00:12Z shka: Bike: i think so, but why? 2015-03-01T18:00:18Z shka: i did the following 2015-03-01T18:00:20Z shka: (defgeneric perverse-method (o) (:method-combination reverse-standard)) 2015-03-01T18:00:36Z shka: (defmethod test-method reverse-standard ((o foo)) (print "foo")) 2015-03-01T18:00:51Z Bike: so your qualifier is reverse-standard? 2015-03-01T18:00:57Z Bike: that's not a qualifier your method combination has. 2015-03-01T18:01:05Z shka: oh 2015-03-01T18:01:26Z shka: Bike: could you please explain? 2015-03-01T18:01:43Z Bike: your method combination allows the normal qualifiers, :after :before :around and nothing, right? 2015-03-01T18:01:49Z shka: right 2015-03-01T18:02:00Z shka: just… let me check 2015-03-01T18:02:09Z Bike: and you put "reverse-standard" as a qualifier. i assume you meant it to refer to the method combination, but methods don't need that. 2015-03-01T18:02:31Z Bike: so, your method has "reverse-standard" as a qualifier. your method combination looks through the qualifiers, finds that, doesn't know wtf to do with it, whines. 2015-03-01T18:03:03Z shka: ok 2015-03-01T18:03:08Z shka: that makes sense 2015-03-01T18:03:14Z cadadar joined #lisp 2015-03-01T18:03:25Z Bike: so if you just write (defmethod test-method ((o foo)) (print "foo")) things should go better. 2015-03-01T18:03:35Z shka: i was under impression that i need to pass method combination as well 2015-03-01T18:03:38Z GGMethos quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-01T18:03:42Z Bike: you might be confused since define-method-combination's short form has the method combination name as a qualifier. 2015-03-01T18:03:49Z shka: ah! 2015-03-01T18:03:50Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-01T18:03:57Z shka: that makes sense 2015-03-01T18:04:22Z shka: Bike: unfortunatly cl still has my old methods defined 2015-03-01T18:04:29Z shka: so i better write new one 2015-03-01T18:05:58Z tmch quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-01T18:06:15Z cadadar quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-01T18:06:40Z shka: so yeah, this error is gone 2015-03-01T18:06:51Z shka: Bike: thanks 2015-03-01T18:06:59Z shka: though, this won't work for other reason 2015-03-01T18:07:31Z Bike: yay, programming! 2015-03-01T18:08:49Z shka: Bike: yeah, i love that :] 2015-03-01T18:09:10Z shka: but finally i have time to mess a little with clos mop so that's great 2015-03-01T18:09:49Z Bike: mop actually says almost nothing about method combos, it's kinda weird. 2015-03-01T18:10:16Z shka: future standard should specify this a bit i think 2015-03-01T18:11:09Z shka: good thing is that it actually tries to run method for foo first 2015-03-01T18:12:10Z hardenedapple quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1) 2015-03-01T18:12:13Z shka: however, this thing is not easy to understand, really 2015-03-01T18:12:22Z Bike: it's not. 2015-03-01T18:12:45Z Bike: you may find https://github.com/sellout/method-combination-utilities useful 2015-03-01T18:13:35Z shka: oh, thanks :-) 2015-03-01T18:13:38Z shka: (#) fell through ETYPECASE expression. 2015-03-01T18:13:44Z shka: anyway 2015-03-01T18:13:55Z shka: i actually don't know what to say 2015-03-01T18:15:08Z Bike: you have your own class of methods too? 2015-03-01T18:15:12Z gravicappa joined #lisp 2015-03-01T18:15:35Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-01T18:16:22Z shka: no 2015-03-01T18:16:27Z Patzy joined #lisp 2015-03-01T18:16:32Z shka: pmethod is simply method name 2015-03-01T18:16:37Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-01T18:16:47Z Bike: oh. right. 2015-03-01T18:16:50Z Vutral_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-01T18:16:50Z shka: i'm not that crazy :P 2015-03-01T18:16:53Z Vutral__ joined #lisp 2015-03-01T18:19:16Z lagging_troll joined #lisp 2015-03-01T18:20:35Z shka: well, no idea what is wrong with type, really 2015-03-01T18:22:51Z taylanub joined #lisp 2015-03-01T18:26:52Z BitPuffin joined #lisp 2015-03-01T18:29:40Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-01T18:31:25Z GGMethos joined #lisp 2015-03-01T18:31:48Z haom left #lisp 2015-03-01T18:32:12Z ynniv joined #lisp 2015-03-01T18:32:51Z ynniv: I want to use trivial-gray-streams:stream-read-sequence, but it isn’t well documented and I can’t find any examples. Is this a subtle hint that I shouldn’t be using it? 2015-03-01T18:33:34Z Bike: isn't that just read-sequence? 2015-03-01T18:35:40Z ynniv: *sigh* looks like read-sequence is probably what I want. 2015-03-01T18:36:03Z nyef: Right, read-sequence on a "gray" stream will call stream-read-sequence. 2015-03-01T18:36:24Z Bike: no, i mean, read-sequence is literally stream-read-sequence, so there's not a lot to document 2015-03-01T18:36:26Z arenz joined #lisp 2015-03-01T18:36:30Z Bike: stream-read-sequence is for defining methods on 2015-03-01T18:37:08Z nyef: For actual "documentation" see the "gray streams" spec and the documentation for read-sequence itself. 2015-03-01T18:39:27Z ynniv: I always seem to be looking to the wrong places for documentation. Thanks Bike. 2015-03-01T18:39:28Z Vutral joined #lisp 2015-03-01T18:42:15Z dagnachewa quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1) 2015-03-01T18:42:55Z Xaving quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-01T18:43:07Z beach: drmeister: Got it. 2015-03-01T18:44:45Z pjb: - 2015-03-01T18:44:52Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp 2015-03-01T18:47:52Z linux_dream joined #lisp 2015-03-01T18:48:03Z ndrei joined #lisp 2015-03-01T18:48:42Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/) 2015-03-01T18:49:23Z thodg quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-01T18:49:27Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2015-03-01T18:49:51Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-01T18:50:22Z zygentoma joined #lisp 2015-03-01T18:51:00Z shka: well, this works if call first primary method first, but fails when i try to call laste 2015-03-01T18:51:02Z shka: *last 2015-03-01T18:51:19Z shka: at this point i think this simply cannot be done 2015-03-01T18:51:24Z justanot1eruser quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-01T18:51:25Z shka: :( 2015-03-01T18:51:36Z yeticry joined #lisp 2015-03-01T18:53:58Z shka: for a moment i thinked that setting safety and debug to 0 would disable those checks 2015-03-01T18:54:11Z beach: "thought" 2015-03-01T18:54:19Z shka: right, sorry 2015-03-01T18:54:59Z shka: i guess i should find other way to handle this 2015-03-01T18:55:04Z shka: maybe mixin 2015-03-01T18:55:19Z nyef: Setting SAFETY to 0 to sneak something past the compiler or the runtime is usually a spectacularly bad idea. 2015-03-01T18:55:20Z shka: that would certainly work 2015-03-01T18:55:47Z shka: nyef: i'm ok with that, i just wanted to know what is actually going on 2015-03-01T18:55:53Z Bike: it sounds like your problem is in an implementation function anyway. 2015-03-01T18:56:11Z shka: yes, i asked at the sbcl 2015-03-01T18:56:14Z nyef: clhs define-method-combination 2015-03-01T18:56:15Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defi_4.htm 2015-03-01T18:56:25Z nyef: You're using this to define a custom method combination? 2015-03-01T18:56:28Z shka: maybe i should rather send email to the mailing list 2015-03-01T18:56:35Z shka: nyef: yes 2015-03-01T18:56:38Z nyef: Hrm. 2015-03-01T18:56:55Z Bike: well, what would help more is having any context beyond "etypecase is doing something weird". 2015-03-01T18:56:58Z Bike: a backtrace, that sort of thing. 2015-03-01T18:57:25Z shka: oh, i have it 2015-03-01T18:57:34Z shka: but it really seems to be extreamly obscure 2015-03-01T18:58:06Z shka: especially swank calls does not help 2015-03-01T18:58:25Z shka: well, i can mixin probbably 2015-03-01T18:58:34Z shka: but i will eat my dinner first 2015-03-01T18:58:42Z Bike: i meant: somebody here might be able to help if they had the backtrace, but as is we can't do shit. 2015-03-01T18:58:45Z shka: thanks for listening to my complains :) 2015-03-01T19:00:24Z shka: ok 2015-03-01T19:00:33Z shka: it is worth a try anyway 2015-03-01T19:00:36Z shka: http://paste.lisp.org/display/146023 2015-03-01T19:00:56Z thodg joined #lisp 2015-03-01T19:01:28Z devll joined #lisp 2015-03-01T19:01:43Z Bike: a backtrace, what the call is, relevant definitions... 2015-03-01T19:01:44Z shka: so i fail to understand what's going on here and somehow i think that this would require deep understanding of sbcl, but maybe someone can actually handle this somehow 2015-03-01T19:02:01Z linux_dream quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-01T19:02:42Z shka: good point 2015-03-01T19:03:31Z justanotheruser joined #lisp 2015-03-01T19:03:36Z justanotheruser quit (Changing host) 2015-03-01T19:03:36Z justanotheruser joined #lisp 2015-03-01T19:03:53Z ynniv quit (Quit: ynniv) 2015-03-01T19:04:02Z on4k joined #lisp 2015-03-01T19:05:00Z malbertife joined #lisp 2015-03-01T19:06:11Z beach quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-01T19:06:40Z shum quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1) 2015-03-01T19:06:57Z shum joined #lisp 2015-03-01T19:07:53Z shka: http://paste.lisp.org/display/146023#1 2015-03-01T19:08:06Z shka: ok, that would be everything 2015-03-01T19:08:20Z shka: Bike: have a nice evening 2015-03-01T19:08:28Z Bike: you too. 2015-03-01T19:09:33Z ehu joined #lisp 2015-03-01T19:09:39Z linux_dream joined #lisp 2015-03-01T19:10:01Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-01T19:10:28Z Patzy joined #lisp 2015-03-01T19:11:32Z theseb joined #lisp 2015-03-01T19:12:15Z cluck joined #lisp 2015-03-01T19:15:46Z quasisane quit (Quit: leaving) 2015-03-01T19:16:20Z thodg quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-01T19:18:07Z cadadar joined #lisp 2015-03-01T19:18:18Z francogrex joined #lisp 2015-03-01T19:20:07Z flash- quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-01T19:21:45Z shum quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1) 2015-03-01T19:22:02Z shum joined #lisp 2015-03-01T19:24:04Z redeemed joined #lisp 2015-03-01T19:27:49Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-03-01T19:32:30Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2015-03-01T19:35:11Z samebchase quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-01T19:35:13Z on4k quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-01T19:36:14Z samebchase joined #lisp 2015-03-01T19:37:18Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-01T19:37:20Z shum quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1) 2015-03-01T19:37:37Z hiyosi quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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Though it might happen again that I realise some dumb mistake only a few hours after the release again, as has been the case far too often now. 2015-03-01T20:39:38Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-01T20:39:38Z modula is now known as defaultxr 2015-03-01T20:41:05Z Shinmera: Xach: Did that pop up just today or has it not been fixed in the days you've been preparing for the build now? 2015-03-01T20:45:16Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-01T20:45:41Z Xach: Shinmera: from a commit 16 hours ago 2015-03-01T20:46:00Z Xach: Submitted an issue on github 2015-03-01T20:46:03Z Shinmera: Ah. Annoying indeed. 2015-03-01T20:46:04Z Xach: We'll see what happens 2015-03-01T20:49:30Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-03-01T20:54:36Z nell joined #lisp 2015-03-01T20:55:43Z sz0 joined #lisp 2015-03-01T20:56:16Z shum quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1) 2015-03-01T20:56:38Z shum joined #lisp 2015-03-01T20:59:05Z shum quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-01T20:59:25Z shum joined #lisp 2015-03-01T21:02:15Z francogrex quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2015-03-01T21:04:34Z tmch quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-01T21:05:55Z gabriel_laddel joined #lisp 2015-03-01T21:08:22Z shum quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1) 2015-03-01T21:08:42Z shum joined #lisp 2015-03-01T21:11:10Z wz1000 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-01T21:13:33Z shum quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-01T21:13:38Z zeitue quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-01T21:13:54Z shum joined #lisp 2015-03-01T21:15:03Z Petit_Dejeuner_ joined #lisp 2015-03-01T21:15:19Z serses joined #lisp 2015-03-01T21:15:29Z dkcl joined #lisp 2015-03-01T21:16:21Z shum quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-01T21:16:39Z shum joined #lisp 2015-03-01T21:18:18Z shum quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-01T21:18:26Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-01T21:18:39Z shum joined #lisp 2015-03-01T21:20:03Z shum quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-01T21:20:22Z shum joined #lisp 2015-03-01T21:21:34Z shum quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-01T21:21:54Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-01T21:22:20Z Petit_Dejeuner_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-03-01T21:23:59Z shum joined #lisp 2015-03-01T21:24:49Z shum quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-01T21:25:10Z shum joined #lisp 2015-03-01T21:25:53Z ebrasca quit (Quit: ebrasca) 2015-03-01T21:25:57Z zeitue joined #lisp 2015-03-01T21:27:10Z Xach: It is nice to have download stats at my fingertips. Now I can tell "which json library is downloaded more often?" 2015-03-01T21:27:48Z shum quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-01T21:28:10Z shum joined #lisp 2015-03-01T21:28:41Z Xach: (cl-json is the one) 2015-03-01T21:29:29Z oleo joined #lisp 2015-03-01T21:29:29Z antoszka: Xach: Planning to publish a library popularity ranking? 2015-03-01T21:29:46Z Xach: antoszka: it will be part of a project search ranking 2015-03-01T21:29:53Z antoszka: Cool. 2015-03-01T21:30:24Z Xach: popularity order is cl-json, st-json, yason, jsown, and monkeylib-json. 2015-03-01T21:31:57Z shum quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-01T21:32:15Z shum joined #lisp 2015-03-01T21:32:26Z shum quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-01T21:32:49Z shum joined #lisp 2015-03-01T21:33:48Z shka quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1) 2015-03-01T21:34:47Z Soft quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-01T21:36:47Z shum quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-01T21:37:05Z shum joined #lisp 2015-03-01T21:38:20Z kcj joined #lisp 2015-03-01T21:39:08Z Petit_Dejeuner_ joined #lisp 2015-03-01T21:42:03Z Shinmera: The next interesting thing to know would be which ones are picking up more users more quickly. 2015-03-01T21:43:19Z jlongster quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-01T21:47:45Z Xach has easy access to the raw data to approximate the answer 2015-03-01T21:48:43Z linux_dream joined #lisp 2015-03-01T21:50:05Z Soft joined #lisp 2015-03-01T21:56:52Z zeitue quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-03-01T22:05:42Z kraison1 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-01T22:06:16Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-01T22:07:34Z paroneay` quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-03-01T22:08:18Z k-stz` joined #lisp 2015-03-01T22:09:20Z zadock quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-01T22:09:38Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2015-03-01T22:09:48Z quazimod1 joined #lisp 2015-03-01T22:11:11Z zeitue joined #lisp 2015-03-01T22:12:28Z justanotheruser quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-03-01T22:19:18Z Ralt: Shinmera: ping? 2015-03-01T22:20:44Z _Loic_ joined #lisp 2015-03-01T22:26:29Z Quadrescence joined #lisp 2015-03-01T22:26:52Z aeth joined #lisp 2015-03-01T22:28:13Z kraison joined #lisp 2015-03-01T22:29:26Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-03-01T22:30:42Z sol__ joined #lisp 2015-03-01T22:31:03Z justanotheruser joined #lisp 2015-03-01T22:31:30Z Shinmera: Yeah? 2015-03-01T22:33:37Z Ralt: Shinmera: did you see my ping wrt #_delete? 2015-03-01T22:33:53Z Shinmera: You didn't see my reply. 2015-03-01T22:34:05Z Ralt: ah. ZNC didn't keep so many messages... 2015-03-01T22:34:28Z Shinmera: You shouldn't use delete anyway. Use FINALIZE. 2015-03-01T22:34:44Z Shinmera: as in, (finalize thing) 2015-03-01T22:35:04Z Ralt: even for this thing? http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-4.8/qlayout.html#takeAt 2015-03-01T22:35:05Z alvis quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-01T22:35:23Z Shinmera: What do you mean? 2015-03-01T22:36:01Z Ralt: qt doc recommends delete, wasn't sure finalize was enough. 2015-03-01T22:36:06Z Ralt: but it does seem to work 2015-03-01T22:36:37Z Shinmera: finalize calls delete later down the chain for qobjects. 2015-03-01T22:36:38Z justanotheruser left #lisp 2015-03-01T22:36:45Z Ralt: cool then 2015-03-01T22:36:50Z Shinmera: and it's safe to call even for objects that have already been deleted. delete is not. 2015-03-01T22:37:01Z Ralt: fair enough. 2015-03-01T22:37:03Z Shinmera: It'll also run additional cleanup things if you define them. 2015-03-01T22:38:29Z Ralt: thanks 2015-03-01T22:40:07Z Shinmera: Look at DEFINE-FINALIZE-METHOD for that 2015-03-01T22:44:12Z defaultxr quit (Quit: brb) 2015-03-01T22:46:07Z zeitue quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-01T22:47:15Z k-stz` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-03-01T22:49:59Z quirky joined #lisp 2015-03-01T22:50:03Z quirky quit (Client Quit) 2015-03-01T22:51:37Z silentstar joined #lisp 2015-03-01T22:54:14Z defaultxr joined #lisp 2015-03-01T22:55:00Z serses quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-03-01T22:57:26Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2015-03-01T22:58:16Z zygentoma is now known as zygentoma^kwknei 2015-03-01T22:58:21Z zygentoma^kwknei is now known as zygentoma^kneipe 2015-03-01T22:59:58Z zeitue joined #lisp 2015-03-01T23:00:33Z zadock joined #lisp 2015-03-01T23:02:18Z cadadar joined #lisp 2015-03-01T23:06:07Z fourier quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-03-01T23:09:45Z ehu quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-03-01T23:14:02Z csziacobus joined #lisp 2015-03-01T23:14:16Z bjorkintosh joined #lisp 2015-03-01T23:14:24Z csziacobus left #lisp 2015-03-01T23:14:35Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-03-01T23:15:13Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。) 2015-03-01T23:15:37Z csziacobus joined #lisp 2015-03-01T23:15:51Z csziacobus left #lisp 2015-03-01T23:16:30Z csziacobus joined #lisp 2015-03-01T23:19:11Z gingerale quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-03-01T23:20:31Z pyon is now known as pyon-ted-type 2015-03-01T23:22:22Z sz0 is now known as sz0` 2015-03-01T23:22:38Z bb010g joined #lisp 2015-03-01T23:33:40Z munksgaa1d quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-03-01T23:36:24Z SHODAN quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-03-01T23:36:57Z {0}grant: Does, https://github.com/dym/movitz look like the most recent version of movitz? 2015-03-01T23:38:32Z SHODAN joined #lisp 2015-03-01T23:38:51Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-03-01T23:39:46Z resttime_ quit (Quit: resttime_) 2015-03-01T23:40:26Z dagnachewa joined #lisp 2015-03-01T23:42:13Z csziacobus: {0}grant: there is no "most recent" version of movitz. it's essentially dead. i have a fork of that repo which modernizes the asdf suystem with some cleanups though 2015-03-01T23:42:49Z {0}grant: csziacobus: Link? 2015-03-01T23:42:53Z {0}grant: :^) 2015-03-01T23:43:01Z csziacobus: my github 2015-03-01T23:43:44Z csziacobus: https://github.com/csziacobus/movitz 2015-03-01T23:43:56Z {0}grant: Ty. 2015-03-01T23:44:26Z csziacobus: i tried to readd some dead filesystems support but the image bailed when i booted it 2015-03-01T23:45:14Z fierydiarreha joined #lisp 2015-03-01T23:46:05Z csziacobus: {0}grant: anything in particular you want to learn about Movitz? 2015-03-01T23:48:37Z resttime joined #lisp 2015-03-01T23:51:52Z zygentoma^kneipe quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-03-01T23:58:02Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-03-01T23:58:48Z silentstar quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client) 2015-03-01T23:59:03Z antoszka: {0}grant: you might also be interested in https://github.com/froggey/Mezzano/ 2015-03-01T23:59:10Z antoszka: (unless you already know about it)