2015-02-20T00:00:19Z oleo: is there anything wrong with that syntax ? 2015-02-20T00:00:45Z pillton: What syntax? 2015-02-20T00:01:02Z vaporatorius quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T00:02:19Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-20T00:04:53Z oleo: '' has illegal syntax 2015-02-20T00:04:55Z ajtulloch quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-02-20T00:05:50Z oleo: are there any lisp related channels specifically for debuggers ? 2015-02-20T00:06:04Z oleo: or people having problems with implementations ? 2015-02-20T00:06:04Z akkad: #buggeroff is all I found 2015-02-20T00:06:05Z faheem_: Interesting thread. I wonder how many of those people are still around - https://groups.google.com/forum/#!msg/comp.lang.lisp/ZKJyAbgwcBU/jbGevBxZOeIJ 2015-02-20T00:06:41Z faheem_: nyef: Oh, minion is on a break? 2015-02-20T00:07:06Z pillton: oleo: I don't know sorry. XML is one of those tasks where I am lacking a good reason for me to learn. 2015-02-20T00:07:36Z nyef: faheem_: As smart as minion is, it doesn't have enough brains to manage reconnecting once it gets cut off. 2015-02-20T00:08:13Z faheem_: nyef: that's a shame. who runs it? 2015-02-20T00:08:33Z nyef: These days? I don't know. 2015-02-20T00:09:43Z faheem_: ok 2015-02-20T00:09:54Z p_l: it's kinda like cliki domain? xD 2015-02-20T00:11:24Z oleo: ohh, it worked for the cliki url i gave to it 2015-02-20T00:11:57Z oleo: i already read that closure does not support css3 but dunno why it fails on even http://google.com 2015-02-20T00:14:24Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-20T00:14:29Z nikki93 joined #lisp 2015-02-20T00:15:06Z Bicyclidine: google's website has a shitload of css and more javascript 2015-02-20T00:22:39Z montyxcantsin joined #lisp 2015-02-20T00:22:53Z zacts quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-02-20T00:25:34Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp 2015-02-20T00:25:47Z spacebatty: I've got a multithreaded app and when I set a breakpoint somewhere numerous threads will encounter, I get an annoying cascade of sldb buffers catching the signal 2015-02-20T00:26:19Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-02-20T00:26:40Z spacebatty: is there a way to force all sldb buffers to open in the same emacs window, so it doesn't keep popping them up all over the place? 2015-02-20T00:27:13Z a20150101 quit (Quit: Page closed) 2015-02-20T00:28:16Z spacebatty: almost all the customize options for slime-debugger are faces 2015-02-20T00:28:29Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-02-20T00:30:20Z Jesin joined #lisp 2015-02-20T00:31:41Z PinealGlandOptic quit (Quit: leaving) 2015-02-20T00:32:01Z spacebatty: seems display-buffer-alist is my friend 2015-02-20T00:32:11Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: execution ended into paranoid error) 2015-02-20T00:38:43Z Jesin quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-20T00:39:46Z Ralt quit (K-Lined) 2015-02-20T00:39:53Z Mawile joined #lisp 2015-02-20T00:40:59Z k-dawg joined #lisp 2015-02-20T00:41:53Z sheilong joined #lisp 2015-02-20T00:44:12Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T00:45:52Z nell quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2-dev) 2015-02-20T00:48:09Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-02-20T00:49:52Z grantix quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-02-20T00:53:27Z ethycol quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-20T00:58:15Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-02-20T01:00:18Z ninjazach joined #lisp 2015-02-20T01:03:07Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-02-20T01:05:39Z juanlas quit (Quit: juanlas) 2015-02-20T01:10:00Z Poenikatu joined #lisp 2015-02-20T01:10:00Z Poenikatu quit (Changing host) 2015-02-20T01:10:00Z Poenikatu joined #lisp 2015-02-20T01:10:40Z Poenikatu left #lisp 2015-02-20T01:12:01Z grantix joined #lisp 2015-02-20T01:15:50Z antoniobandura joined #lisp 2015-02-20T01:16:54Z antoniobandura quit (Client Quit) 2015-02-20T01:16:59Z normanrichards joined #lisp 2015-02-20T01:18:56Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2015-02-20T01:19:20Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-02-20T01:37:04Z nell joined #lisp 2015-02-20T01:40:06Z emaczen joined #lisp 2015-02-20T01:40:55Z emaczen: I have a loop that iterates over elements and at the same time iterates over the corresponding index 2015-02-20T01:41:13Z ethycol joined #lisp 2015-02-20T01:41:20Z emaczen: What I want to do, is return the elements and their corresponding index that pass a test. 2015-02-20T01:41:29Z grantix quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T01:41:36Z yrdz quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-02-20T01:41:54Z emaczen: This would pretty much be a filter (or remove-if-not) but I am additionally iterating over the index as well 2015-02-20T01:42:01Z grantix joined #lisp 2015-02-20T01:42:41Z emaczen: Right now I am using collect and getting a bunch of nils with the elements and their index 2015-02-20T01:43:03Z k-dawg quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2015-02-20T01:46:47Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-02-20T01:47:25Z nyef: loop for index from 0 below (length ...) for element in ... when (test) collect index into ... and collect element into ... finally (return (values ... ...)) or similar? 2015-02-20T01:48:56Z a20150101 joined #lisp 2015-02-20T01:49:18Z defaultxr joined #lisp 2015-02-20T01:50:25Z Jesin joined #lisp 2015-02-20T01:50:45Z emaczen: nyef: How do you insert extra lines into #lisp without posting? 2015-02-20T01:50:56Z zacts joined #lisp 2015-02-20T01:51:14Z emaczen: nyef: That is a bit complicated for something so simple 2015-02-20T01:51:57Z Xach: emaczen: what form will your return value take? 2015-02-20T01:52:09Z emaczen: (loop for ch in li 2015-02-20T01:52:10Z emaczen: as i = 0 then (incf i) collect 2015-02-20T01:52:10Z emaczen: (when (member ch precedence) 2015-02-20T01:52:10Z emaczen: (cons ch i)))) 2015-02-20T01:52:41Z Adlai: emaczen: next time, please use a pastebin such as http://paste.lisp.org 2015-02-20T01:52:50Z emaczen: The only issue with the above is that the collect returns a bunch of nils (I guess collect gets tranlated into a filter 2015-02-20T01:52:51Z warweasle joined #lisp 2015-02-20T01:52:53Z emaczen: I mean a map 2015-02-20T01:53:03Z nyef: Ahh. Don't COLLECT (WHEN (...) ...), WHEN (...) COLLECT ... 2015-02-20T01:53:36Z nyef: COLLECT will always collect. Use the LOOP WHEN to make it conditional, rather than making the value collected conditional. 2015-02-20T01:54:32Z nyef: So, (loop for ch in li #| lame variable names, btw. |# for i from 0 when (member ch precedence) collect (cons ch i)) 2015-02-20T01:57:31Z linux_dream joined #lisp 2015-02-20T01:57:49Z emaczen: nyef: Thanks so much 2015-02-20T01:58:13Z grantix quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T01:59:02Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-20T01:59:03Z grantix joined #lisp 2015-02-20T01:59:19Z ethycol quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-20T02:00:25Z Vutral_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-02-20T02:02:10Z c74d quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-20T02:04:28Z c74d joined #lisp 2015-02-20T02:09:39Z ethycol joined #lisp 2015-02-20T02:09:45Z Xach: emaczen: what prompts the desire for an index? 2015-02-20T02:09:57Z juanlas joined #lisp 2015-02-20T02:14:23Z warweasle quit (Quit: Lord British is coming Lord British is coming!) 2015-02-20T02:15:59Z emaczen: Xach: It is just a solution I came up with to insert some chars into a string from user input 2015-02-20T02:22:28Z ninjazach quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-20T02:25:20Z nyef: ... While looking for an arbitrary stupidly-large-integer, I almost entered MOST-POSITIVE-BIGNUM instead of MOST-POSITIVE-FIXNUM. 2015-02-20T02:26:12Z linux_dream: what are you working on emacszen? out of curiosity... :D 2015-02-20T02:26:30Z linux_dream: what kind of program are you writting I mean 2015-02-20T02:37:55Z Vutral joined #lisp 2015-02-20T02:38:22Z Vutral quit (Excess Flood) 2015-02-20T02:38:41Z hiyosi quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-02-20T02:39:50Z srcerer quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 35.0/20150108202552]) 2015-02-20T02:41:24Z montyxcantsin quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 35.0.1/20150122214805]) 2015-02-20T02:41:33Z srcerer joined #lisp 2015-02-20T02:42:26Z JuanDaugherty quit (Quit: Hibernate, etc.) 2015-02-20T02:43:32Z emaczen: linux_dream: At the moment I am working on making an interface for mathematical expressions 2015-02-20T02:43:45Z linux_dream: nice... 2015-02-20T02:44:01Z linux_dream: to implement it in say... wxmaxima/maxima or.... ? 2015-02-20T02:44:19Z ninjazach joined #lisp 2015-02-20T02:44:24Z emaczen: I'm parenthesizing infix notations and then converting them to lisp prefix forms at the moment 2015-02-20T02:44:41Z emaczen: linux_dream: I hope to be able to contribute to some CAS in the future, but for now I'm still learning :) 2015-02-20T02:44:50Z linux_dream: nice 2015-02-20T02:44:57Z linux_dream: I would like to follow you somehow :D haha 2015-02-20T02:45:09Z linux_dream: I started a lil' bit with emacs too 2015-02-20T02:45:17Z linux_dream: but I don't have that much free time for now... 2015-02-20T02:45:24Z emaczen: linux_dream: neither do i :( 2015-02-20T02:46:00Z emaczen: If you see me on #lisp or #emacs feel free to check up on my progress! 2015-02-20T02:46:10Z emaczen: progress/lack of progress -- lol 2015-02-20T02:46:26Z ninjazach: I wish I had more time to enjoy my hobbies also :( 2015-02-20T02:46:30Z Mawile: ...I hear you, I've been procrastinating writing a macro called "lazy" for almost an hour now. 2015-02-20T02:46:38Z Mawile: :^ 2015-02-20T02:46:49Z c74d quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-20T02:46:58Z emaczen: Mawile: Let me know how that goes 2015-02-20T02:47:26Z nyef: emaczen: Here's a concept for you to think about: https://common-lisp.net/~abridgewater/lisp-tex-test-2.png 2015-02-20T02:48:07Z coucou747 joined #lisp 2015-02-20T02:48:21Z coucou747: Hi 2015-02-20T02:49:31Z c74d joined #lisp 2015-02-20T02:50:06Z emaczen: nyef: who is making that? 2015-02-20T02:50:51Z coucou747: someone can explain me why clisp always put a \n at the end of my hello world ? 2015-02-20T02:51:01Z nyef: emaczen: It was a concept piece of mine, half a decade ago now. I know how to make the code compile, but not how to make it behave reasonably in emacs. 2015-02-20T02:51:15Z warweasle joined #lisp 2015-02-20T02:51:39Z nyef: emaczen: So I didn't do much beyond that auctex-based sample document. 2015-02-20T02:52:02Z nyef: I also realized that very, very little of the code that I write is really amenable to such treatment. 2015-02-20T02:52:04Z coucou747: I'm generating some code in some various languages and it makes me crazy because my hello worlds don't have the same execution in common lisp and ocaml (for exemple) because common lisp add an automatic \n at the end 2015-02-20T02:52:28Z emaczen: nyef: what does "really amenable" mean? 2015-02-20T02:53:17Z nyef: I don't need to drop into some math markup when I'm doing some web service that queries a database and spits out JSON. 2015-02-20T02:53:42Z Longlius joined #lisp 2015-02-20T02:54:24Z emaczen: the databse does not contain mathemathical formulas? (sorta joking and sorta not) 2015-02-20T02:55:08Z tharugrim quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2-dev) 2015-02-20T02:55:17Z bgs100 joined #lisp 2015-02-20T02:55:24Z nyef: Even if it did, I wouldn't be using anything that looked like math to marshal them over to JSON. 2015-02-20T02:55:34Z c74d is now known as Guest91619 2015-02-20T02:56:01Z emaczen: nyef: yeah, so you do more backend stuff in general? 2015-02-20T02:56:16Z emaczen: nyef: I thought you were an SBCL developer? 2015-02-20T02:56:32Z nyef: I am an SBCL developer, but that's more in my spare time. 2015-02-20T02:57:20Z c74d joined #lisp 2015-02-20T02:57:39Z Guest91619 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-20T02:58:20Z emaczen: nyef: I'll keep your past project in mind -- This is different/cool than the LaTeX interfaces I have seen for other math software in emacs 2015-02-20T02:59:05Z coucou747: why do (princ "foo") (princ "foo") white me "foofoo\n" and not "foofoo" ? 2015-02-20T02:59:06Z Vutral joined #lisp 2015-02-20T02:59:12Z coucou747: and how avoid this bug ? 2015-02-20T02:59:24Z nyef: emaczen: Basically the idea was to use auctex-like overlays for the math regions, and a reader macro on #\$ to get the Lisp reader to do something intelligent with it. 2015-02-20T02:59:35Z nyef: clhs princ 2015-02-20T02:59:36Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_wr_pr.htm 2015-02-20T02:59:58Z emaczen: linux_dream: wasn't the original reason you started with lisp and emacs something maxima related? 2015-02-20T02:59:59Z spacebatty: coucou747: http://www.clisp.org/impnotes/newline-convention.html 2015-02-20T03:00:11Z linux_dream: yes emaczen 2015-02-20T03:00:39Z emaczen: linux_dream: What do you wish to do with Maxima? 2015-02-20T03:01:19Z emaczen: I want to start playing with it -- I have only used really trivially used Sage in the past (which did in turn use Maxima for ODE solving) 2015-02-20T03:01:30Z linux_dream: I would like to understand its code and maybe fix bugs or implement new features 2015-02-20T03:03:32Z badkins quit 2015-02-20T03:03:37Z linux_dream: I see Maxima as a powerful tool that can be used for my whole life 2015-02-20T03:03:43Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/) 2015-02-20T03:03:49Z linux_dream: I better learn it well 2015-02-20T03:04:08Z emaczen: linux_dream: Yep, I see Lisp and Emacs right up there too! 2015-02-20T03:04:20Z emaczen: linux_dream: How well do you know Maxima? 2015-02-20T03:04:21Z ramus joined #lisp 2015-02-20T03:04:29Z linux_dream: only the basics 2015-02-20T03:04:41Z linux_dream: I'm a physics student and didn't use it much because I was not forced to 2015-02-20T03:04:48Z ninjazach quit (Quit: Sometimes you have to know when to /quit) 2015-02-20T03:05:04Z csziacobus: does anyone even maintain maxima still? 2015-02-20T03:05:09Z linux_dream: just used it for some stuff so far like calculating limits, solving system of equations, plotting and calculating integrals 2015-02-20T03:05:17Z linux_dream: yes it's an active project 2015-02-20T03:05:29Z emaczen: linux_dream: Are you using the emacs interface to maxima? 2015-02-20T03:05:40Z linux_dream: no, wxmaxima 2015-02-20T03:05:51Z linux_dream: I wasn't aware about an emacs interface :) 2015-02-20T03:06:12Z linux_dream: also I've learned that wxmaxima can do things that maxima cannot 2015-02-20T03:06:26Z emaczen: linux_dream: C-h i 2015-02-20T03:06:40Z emaczen: and then i-search for 'maxima' 2015-02-20T03:06:50Z linux_dream: it's the 1st in the list :D thx 2015-02-20T03:07:29Z linux_dream: what do you mean by i-search ? to search I do C-s 2015-02-20T03:07:47Z emaczen: i-search is the name for C-s 2015-02-20T03:07:53Z linux_dream: thx 2015-02-20T03:08:42Z emaczen: linux_dream: Let me know how it goes -- I am also very interested in going down this route though should be delayed for a bit :( 2015-02-20T03:08:56Z Vutral quit (Excess Flood) 2015-02-20T03:09:01Z linux_dream: I'll be delayed for sure too in the next months 2015-02-20T03:09:23Z linux_dream: but learning emacs/lisp/maxima is what I intend to do for the next years in my spare time 2015-02-20T03:09:48Z emaczen: linux_dream: you are in #emacs right? 2015-02-20T03:09:59Z linux_dream: yes 2015-02-20T03:10:17Z linux_dream: ok I've found org-babel 2015-02-20T03:10:28Z emaczen: I sent you a message: I was going to share some other cool emacs tricks and not clutter up #lisp 2015-02-20T03:13:12Z coucou747: spacebatty, I still don't understand how to avoid this newline... it seems to be at the end of the program 2015-02-20T03:13:18Z coucou747: when it exit, not when I print 2015-02-20T03:14:05Z coucou747: I had the same bug in ADA, I worked around using binary writing on stdout but it's dirty 2015-02-20T03:14:32Z nikki93 joined #lisp 2015-02-20T03:17:52Z theseb joined #lisp 2015-02-20T03:19:21Z linux_dream quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-02-20T03:19:49Z oleo joined #lisp 2015-02-20T03:21:22Z c74d quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-20T03:22:44Z sheilong quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2015-02-20T03:23:34Z zacharias_ joined #lisp 2015-02-20T03:23:42Z c74d joined #lisp 2015-02-20T03:26:40Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-02-20T03:28:48Z spacebatty: coucou747: yeah no idea 2015-02-20T03:30:19Z taspat quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2015-02-20T03:30:40Z zRecursive joined #lisp 2015-02-20T03:30:59Z coucou747: spacebatty, it's just (princ "foo") (princ "foo") run with clisp... it add a return line 2015-02-20T03:31:15Z coucou747: I don't understand and I need to sleep 2015-02-20T03:31:18Z coucou747: bye 2015-02-20T03:31:34Z antgreen joined #lisp 2015-02-20T03:33:40Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-02-20T03:36:18Z juanlas quit (Quit: juanlas) 2015-02-20T03:44:47Z drmeister: Something that drives me crazy about programming with emacs is that it takes over arbitrary frames. 2015-02-20T03:45:13Z drmeister: If sldb comes up it may take over the frame that I was editing a source file in. 2015-02-20T03:45:37Z drmeister: When I start SLIME, the *inferior-lisp* may take over the frame I was editing source in. 2015-02-20T03:46:16Z drmeister: I find that I'm constantly bringing up buffers whose frames were taken over by other buffers. 2015-02-20T03:46:41Z drmeister: How do people deal with this? Or do you just do what I do - get really proficient at bringing back buffers? 2015-02-20T03:46:51Z ggole joined #lisp 2015-02-20T03:47:35Z nyef: drmeister: There's some key sequence that basically means "revert other frame to what it was before". 2015-02-20T03:48:16Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-02-20T03:48:19Z drmeister: Oh - that sounds useful - thank you - I'll look for it. 2015-02-20T03:48:50Z nyef: Plus, I don't run SLIME anymore, so the debugger doesn't do that to me. d-: 2015-02-20T03:49:05Z Petit_Dejeuner: No SLIME? 2015-02-20T03:49:23Z drmeister: You don't use SLIME? What do you do? 2015-02-20T03:50:02Z nyef: At this point, most of the time, I invoke a shell script to run my test suite, or I use rlwrap. 2015-02-20T03:50:40Z nyef: The latest thing I've taken to doing is using rlwrap in conjunction with a symbol-macro to reload the file I'm working on, so reloading takes three keystrokes. 2015-02-20T03:51:21Z nyef: I also use "git grep" fairly heavily. 2015-02-20T03:51:44Z Mawile: git grep is incredibly handy for any sizable codebase 2015-02-20T03:54:03Z cpc26_ joined #lisp 2015-02-20T03:54:07Z robot-beethoven joined #lisp 2015-02-20T03:54:57Z csziacobus: is there any macroexpand that will only macroexpand one level into a macrolet? 2015-02-20T03:55:17Z cpc26 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-20T03:55:42Z nyef: With a MACROLET? That's a bit sketchy. 2015-02-20T03:55:47Z csziacobus: so like (macrolet ((foo (a) ,a)) (foo x)) becomes (FOO X) 2015-02-20T03:56:07Z csziacobus: macroexpand-all does macrolets but also expands defuns and things inside which is not nice 2015-02-20T03:56:53Z nyef: The problem is that anything inside the MACROLET body could expand into an invocation of one of the local macros. 2015-02-20T03:57:54Z csziacobus: oops, i meant just plain X in the example 2015-02-20T03:58:56Z csziacobus: nyef: right, but doesn't macroexpand-1 do that properly? 2015-02-20T03:59:13Z nyef: How can it? 2015-02-20T03:59:39Z csziacobus: nyef: sorry if im not understanding you correctly, but are you talking about when a macro expands into another macro? 2015-02-20T03:59:50Z nyef: How can it when the invocation might only appear after macroexpanding some form that appears three levels in, twice? 2015-02-20T04:00:38Z nyef: Thus, the MACROLET cannot be gotten rid of unless a FULL expansion (thus, minimal compilation, more or less) is being done. 2015-02-20T04:01:10Z csziacobus: nyef: aha, well then the macrolet wrapper can be kept, and the body expanded only once 2015-02-20T04:01:31Z Ralt joined #lisp 2015-02-20T04:01:50Z csziacobus: that makes sense though, and indeed that is what macroexpand-all does to handle macrolets 2015-02-20T04:01:52Z zRecursive left #lisp 2015-02-20T04:02:17Z csziacobus: so iguess what im really asking is if there is a macrolet that expands the body of itself only once 2015-02-20T04:02:22Z csziacobus: and hence 2015-02-20T04:02:31Z nyef: And here's a scary thought: What if the topmost body form expands to another MACROLET? 2015-02-20T04:02:45Z wemeetagain joined #lisp 2015-02-20T04:03:13Z csziacobus: (macrolet ((foo (a b) `(if ,a ,b))) (foo x y)) => (macrolet ((foo (a b) (if ,a ,b))) (if x y)) 2015-02-20T04:03:22Z c74d quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-20T04:05:23Z bgs100 quit (Quit: bgs100) 2015-02-20T04:05:41Z c74d joined #lisp 2015-02-20T04:06:09Z csziacobus: nyef: surprisingly, after looking ito it, the clhs actually describes the behavior of macrolet expansion 2015-02-20T04:06:48Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-02-20T04:07:33Z ASau joined #lisp 2015-02-20T04:08:09Z nyef: What, in terms of macroexpand itself? 2015-02-20T04:09:36Z nyef: Hrm. Not in the MACROLET or MACROEXPAND pages. 2015-02-20T04:10:25Z nyef: The examples in the MACROEXPAND pages use a cute trick to get the lexical environment to do stuff with MACROLET and SYMBOL-MACROLET, though. 2015-02-20T04:10:57Z csziacobus: oh, i mistook those examples then 2015-02-20T04:13:14Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2015-02-20T04:13:16Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T04:14:51Z nyef: Oh, and examples are not normative, so take them with a grain of salt. 2015-02-20T04:15:07Z qubitnerd joined #lisp 2015-02-20T04:16:47Z grantix quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T04:16:52Z ethycol quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-02-20T04:19:38Z zacts quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2015-02-20T04:20:40Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-02-20T04:21:09Z emaczen quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2015-02-20T04:22:05Z beach joined #lisp 2015-02-20T04:22:12Z nyef: Hello beach. 2015-02-20T04:22:14Z beach: Good morning everyone! 2015-02-20T04:24:34Z nikki93 joined #lisp 2015-02-20T04:24:36Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T04:24:49Z nikki93 joined #lisp 2015-02-20T04:25:31Z drmeister: nyef: Is the reason you aren't using SLIME because you are doing low level debugging of sbcl? 2015-02-20T04:25:36Z cluck quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T04:25:40Z drmeister: Hi beach 2015-02-20T04:26:18Z nyef: drmeister: No, it's because I got completely fed up of it breaking all the time while I was trying to use it. 2015-02-20T04:26:27Z KarlDscc joined #lisp 2015-02-20T04:26:36Z drmeister: SLIME or sbcl? 2015-02-20T04:26:42Z nyef: SLIME. 2015-02-20T04:26:54Z nyef: I still tend to have it loaded, but I think the most I get from it is the hyperspec lookup. 2015-02-20T04:27:10Z drmeister: SLIME does hyper spec lookup? 2015-02-20T04:27:17Z nyef: C-c C-d h 2015-02-20T04:27:33Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2015-02-20T04:27:38Z drmeister: Holy cr*p 2015-02-20T04:28:35Z drmeister breaths into a paper bag 2015-02-20T04:29:16Z csziacobus: drmeister: especially useful if you have an offline copy of the hyperspec :) 2015-02-20T04:29:17Z beach: drmeister: What to you use when you program in C++? 2015-02-20T04:29:50Z drmeister: beach: I've spent the day with administrivia, writing helper macros and functions and slowly writing multiple-to-fixed-instruction and funcall-instruction. 2015-02-20T04:29:59Z Karl_Dscc quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-02-20T04:30:07Z drmeister: beach: I use the google. 2015-02-20T04:30:31Z drmeister: csziacobus: How do I set it to my offline copy of the hyper spec? 2015-02-20T04:30:32Z beach: drmeister: I mean what plays the role of SLIME when you write C++? 2015-02-20T04:30:44Z drmeister: beach: emacs 2015-02-20T04:30:45Z Pyridrym quit (Quit: leaving) 2015-02-20T04:31:08Z drmeister: I don't use a lot of fancy shmancy programming environments (other than SLIME). 2015-02-20T04:31:31Z nyef: So... you're not using ECB for the C++ side of things? 2015-02-20T04:32:03Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-02-20T04:32:11Z nyef: (Not that it's guaranteed to work, some of my old C code completely trashed the semantic bovinator, for example.) 2015-02-20T04:32:38Z drmeister: No, I've got 3 pounds of grey matter behind my eyes that I use for that. 2015-02-20T04:32:50Z Vutral joined #lisp 2015-02-20T04:33:26Z drmeister: Once I start relying on anything other than stock software I start tying myself to one machine. 2015-02-20T04:34:00Z nyef: There is that. 2015-02-20T04:34:05Z drmeister: I move around too much and trash my software environments too often. It drove me nuts. 2015-02-20T04:34:27Z nyef: I've been looking into using puppet to configure a usable development system. 2015-02-20T04:34:28Z drmeister gotta be free 2015-02-20T04:34:36Z csziacobus: drmeister: setq common-lisp-hyperspec-root 2015-02-20T04:34:54Z nyef: And I'll probably start adding Vagrant to that as well. 2015-02-20T04:35:25Z drmeister: Even my emacs configuration drives me crazy. I start putting stuff in my init.el on one machine and then I have a maintenance problem on other machines. 2015-02-20T04:35:25Z nyef: After which, well, a git clone + vagrant up and I get a usable environment. 2015-02-20T04:35:50Z nyef: Sounds like you need to put your dotfiles in git, or manage them with puppet or something. 2015-02-20T04:35:59Z drmeister: What's puppet? 2015-02-20T04:36:00Z nyef: Even just symlink them into dropbox? 2015-02-20T04:36:12Z nyef: Declarative configuration automation. 2015-02-20T04:36:17Z drmeister: Symlink on dropbox - that's an interesting idea - funny - I never thought of that. 2015-02-20T04:36:20Z drmeister: Can I do that? 2015-02-20T04:36:22Z nyef: puppetlabs.com 2015-02-20T04:37:07Z drmeister: Looks complicated. I think I'll use dropbox. 2015-02-20T04:37:16Z nyef: Why wouldn't you be able to make a symlink in your home directory that points into your dropbox directory? 2015-02-20T04:37:25Z drmeister: I don't know. 2015-02-20T04:37:38Z drmeister: I probably can - it never occurred to me to try. 2015-02-20T04:38:00Z nyef: Puppet is useful for getting all of the required software packages, libraries, and whatnot installed, and most to all of the configuration done as well 2015-02-20T04:38:25Z drmeister: I'm usually too busy cursing while updating my init.el file by hand. 2015-02-20T04:39:20Z nyef: One of my puppet files takes a bare install of debian stable and installs emacs, the mate desktop environment, an X VNC server, a small pile of libraries and utilities, and so on. 2015-02-20T04:39:52Z drmeister: You had me at Dropbox. 2015-02-20T04:40:02Z nyef: Heh. Fair enough. (-: 2015-02-20T04:41:47Z Vutral quit (Excess Flood) 2015-02-20T04:43:13Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-02-20T04:44:15Z drmeister: What does "s-u" mean in emacs? What key is "s"? 2015-02-20T04:44:23Z drmeister: Not shift - right? 2015-02-20T04:45:02Z nyef: Might be super. 2015-02-20T04:45:16Z clintm quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T04:45:43Z nyef: Shift is capital S. 2015-02-20T04:45:44Z Vutral joined #lisp 2015-02-20T04:46:20Z drmeister: "super"? investigating 2015-02-20T04:46:22Z nyef: For me, on this keyboard, it's the left windows key. 2015-02-20T04:46:31Z nyef: (The right windows key is M-x.) 2015-02-20T04:46:55Z nyef: Be careful, down this route lies xmodmap. 2015-02-20T04:47:53Z nyef: Ooh. When you've got two windows going in a frame, try C-x 4 C-o RET 2015-02-20T04:48:21Z PaulCapestany quit 2015-02-20T04:49:00Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2015-02-20T04:50:05Z PaulCapestany joined #lisp 2015-02-20T04:53:00Z c74d quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-20T04:54:32Z nyef: Okay, I need to get some sleep. 2015-02-20T04:54:37Z nyef quit (Quit: G'night all.) 2015-02-20T04:54:54Z nitrix is now known as HN03 2015-02-20T04:55:09Z HN03 is now known as HNO3 2015-02-20T04:55:15Z loke_: drmeister: Yes, super 2015-02-20T04:55:28Z loke_: there is also "h-", meaning hyper 2015-02-20T04:55:59Z Vutral quit (Excess Flood) 2015-02-20T04:56:03Z grantix joined #lisp 2015-02-20T04:57:39Z HNO3 is now known as Master 2015-02-20T04:59:01Z Master is now known as nitrix 2015-02-20T04:59:18Z drmeister: xmodmap and I go way back 2015-02-20T05:01:47Z grantix quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-02-20T05:03:45Z drmeister: loke_: Thanks. I found a setq for setting the right option key to 'super 2015-02-20T05:03:49Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2015-02-20T05:04:13Z Bicyclidine quit (Client Quit) 2015-02-20T05:05:29Z c74d joined #lisp 2015-02-20T05:06:05Z warweasle quit (Quit: I am a meat popscicle.) 2015-02-20T05:09:29Z psy_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-02-20T05:10:38Z c74d is now known as Guest96391 2015-02-20T05:11:36Z Guest96391 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-20T05:12:08Z gingerale joined #lisp 2015-02-20T05:12:26Z c74d joined #lisp 2015-02-20T05:14:24Z grantix joined #lisp 2015-02-20T05:17:13Z Vutral joined #lisp 2015-02-20T05:18:10Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T05:19:57Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T05:19:57Z c74d quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-20T05:20:14Z nikki93 joined #lisp 2015-02-20T05:22:00Z c74d joined #lisp 2015-02-20T05:22:26Z zeitue joined #lisp 2015-02-20T05:25:03Z PaulCapestany quit 2015-02-20T05:26:24Z psy_ joined #lisp 2015-02-20T05:26:54Z meiji11 joined #lisp 2015-02-20T05:30:05Z PaulCapestany joined #lisp 2015-02-20T05:30:17Z csziacobus quit (Quit: csziacobus) 2015-02-20T05:31:33Z drmeister: beach: I have multiple-to-fixed, fdefinition and funcall working. 2015-02-20T05:31:39Z drmeister: (cleavir-compile 't2 '(lambda (x) (* x 2))) 2015-02-20T05:32:14Z drmeister: http://imgur.com/0RgHxoI 2015-02-20T05:32:42Z drmeister: (t2 16) -> 32 2015-02-20T05:33:37Z kushal joined #lisp 2015-02-20T05:34:07Z milosn quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-20T05:34:28Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T05:35:17Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-20T05:35:46Z nell quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2-dev) 2015-02-20T05:39:30Z milosn joined #lisp 2015-02-20T05:40:57Z munksgaard joined #lisp 2015-02-20T05:40:57Z theos quit (Disconnected by services) 2015-02-20T05:41:27Z theos joined #lisp 2015-02-20T05:44:10Z nikki93 joined #lisp 2015-02-20T05:44:52Z beach: Excellent! 2015-02-20T05:48:37Z drmeister: Must sleep now. 2015-02-20T05:48:46Z beach: Sleep well. 2015-02-20T05:48:53Z drmeister: I'll talk to you tomorrow. 2015-02-20T05:49:36Z beach: Sure. 2015-02-20T05:50:30Z gravicappa joined #lisp 2015-02-20T05:54:22Z rszeno quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-02-20T05:54:58Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T05:59:54Z pranavrc joined #lisp 2015-02-20T06:04:26Z munksgaard quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-20T06:06:05Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-02-20T06:10:24Z gabriel_laddel joined #lisp 2015-02-20T06:10:57Z rszeno joined #lisp 2015-02-20T06:11:35Z resttime quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-02-20T06:12:32Z gabriel_laddel: Does anyone have a copy of the Symbolics Graphics Devision Demo Reel 1989? It used to be on youtube, was quite impressive but has since been removed. 2015-02-20T06:13:08Z gabriel_laddel: the old link: http://www.youtube.com/embed/V4HXPJtym2Q 2015-02-20T06:14:05Z gabriel_laddel: Also there was a video of a lady showing of the lisp machine documentation located @: http://www.youtube.com/embed/V4HXPJtym2Q 2015-02-20T06:15:02Z gabriel_laddel: Again, has since been removed. Both of them were quite interesting and I'd love to find copies again if possible. 2015-02-20T06:15:31Z karswell joined #lisp 2015-02-20T06:16:26Z PaulCapestany quit 2015-02-20T06:18:01Z zacharias_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-20T06:18:18Z PaulCapestany joined #lisp 2015-02-20T06:19:01Z theseb quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-02-20T06:20:56Z peterhil joined #lisp 2015-02-20T06:20:58Z beach: gabriel_laddel: When I type "symbolics graphics division demo reel 1989" to Google, I get 3 youtube videos. Is it one of them? 2015-02-20T06:21:34Z gabriel_laddel: beach: nope. 2015-02-20T06:21:58Z gabriel_laddel: beach: I've checked the uploads of the account that supplied those videos, things they've liked etc. 2015-02-20T06:22:39Z gingerale quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-02-20T06:23:13Z peterhil` quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-02-20T06:23:31Z resttime joined #lisp 2015-02-20T06:23:45Z gabriel_laddel: The actual title was: SYMBOLICS GRAPHICS DEVISION DEMO REEL 1989 2015-02-20T06:23:58Z gabriel_laddel: it is approximately 20 minutes long. 2015-02-20T06:24:31Z zeitue quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-20T06:35:33Z beach: "devision"? 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ZZZzzz…) 2015-02-20T08:53:37Z Harag1 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-20T08:55:02Z psy_ joined #lisp 2015-02-20T08:55:34Z psy_ quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2015-02-20T08:56:35Z psy_ joined #lisp 2015-02-20T08:57:41Z pt1_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T08:58:16Z pt1 joined #lisp 2015-02-20T08:58:58Z Ven joined #lisp 2015-02-20T09:00:25Z rjmacready joined #lisp 2015-02-20T09:04:01Z mega1: is there a way to determine the git version of a library that corresponds to the release in quicklisp? 2015-02-20T09:04:15Z Shinmera quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-20T09:04:16Z meiji11 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-20T09:05:59Z zeitue quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-02-20T09:06:05Z huza quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8) 2015-02-20T09:06:53Z Shinmera joined #lisp 2015-02-20T09:08:00Z flash- joined #lisp 2015-02-20T09:09:53Z taylanub: mega1: in the optimal case, they use 'tags' for releases 2015-02-20T09:10:08Z mega1: ahem, I know of an exception 2015-02-20T09:10:38Z taylanub: or does quicklisp just take arbitrary revisions and make releases of them? I dunno 2015-02-20T09:12:13Z mega1: for my libraries, it does 2015-02-20T09:12:22Z Shinmera: Quicklisp does whatever the library author tells Xach to do, usually. That may be tags, a specific branch, master, tarballs, etc. 2015-02-20T09:12:57Z taylanub: mega1: let me encourage using tags then 2015-02-20T09:13:25Z mega1: is there a way to recover the tag name? 2015-02-20T09:14:41Z fridim_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-02-20T09:18:59Z zeitue joined #lisp 2015-02-20T09:19:28Z radioninja quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-02-20T09:21:01Z redeemed joined #lisp 2015-02-20T09:23:45Z joshe quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-20T09:23:48Z fridim_ joined #lisp 2015-02-20T09:30:07Z taylanub: mega1: your tag should name the release 2015-02-20T09:30:44Z taylanub: so if someone installs LibraryX v1.2.1 through quicklisp, they know that's git tag "v1.2.1" 2015-02-20T09:31:30Z coucou747: for people who asked themself the same question (about fresh line) http://www.clisp.org/impnotes/custom-init-fini.html clisp ALWAYS put a newline and I didn't find a way to solve that 2015-02-20T09:31:37Z coucou747: so I will use sbcl :) 2015-02-20T09:32:58Z mega1: taylanub: I'd like to programatically determine the version/tag. 2015-02-20T09:34:00Z Joreji joined #lisp 2015-02-20T09:35:31Z yaewa joined #lisp 2015-02-20T09:35:37Z Shinmera: Download the repo, checkout each revision, compare all files for equality. 2015-02-20T09:36:00Z grantixxx quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T09:36:12Z sdemarre joined #lisp 2015-02-20T09:36:22Z grantix joined #lisp 2015-02-20T09:36:55Z moei quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-02-20T09:37:12Z przl joined #lisp 2015-02-20T09:38:24Z grantix quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T09:38:42Z grantix joined #lisp 2015-02-20T09:39:36Z Shinmera: You can narrow it down by only comparing revisions before the end of the day the QL release was made at. 2015-02-20T09:40:29Z mega1: I'll take that as a no 2015-02-20T09:40:41Z H4ns: i was about to suggest that :) 2015-02-20T09:40:49Z mrkkrp joined #lisp 2015-02-20T09:40:57Z Shinmera: There is no common way of storing a library, let alone versioning it. 2015-02-20T09:41:18Z Shinmera: Therefore quicklisp does the next best thing: Set the version itself, by tagging each release with the date of the fetch. 2015-02-20T09:41:44Z Shinmera: Getting things better than that would be a huge amount of effort for almost no gain. 2015-02-20T09:43:14Z H4ns: the best thing would be to have everything in one version control system. 2015-02-20T09:45:43Z akkad fights more with slime on windows 2015-02-20T09:45:53Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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Has anybody any idea whether this comes from quicklisp, clx or SBCL? 2015-02-20T11:17:25Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-02-20T11:17:56Z H4ns: idurand: is that on linux? where did you install sbcl from? 2015-02-20T11:18:19Z idurand: Linux, sources (but I tried also with the binary) 2015-02-20T11:18:32Z beetlebum quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T11:18:39Z kcj quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-20T11:19:52Z lowryder quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-02-20T11:20:51Z kushal joined #lisp 2015-02-20T11:21:10Z idurand: H4ns: In the backtrace,I have: SIGNAL Component CLX-SYSTEM::SB-BSD-SOCKETS not found, required by #) 2015-02-20T11:21:41Z beetlebum joined #lisp 2015-02-20T11:21:58Z H4ns: does (require 'sb-bsd-sockets) work? 2015-02-20T11:23:04Z idurand: H4ns: it returns NIL 2015-02-20T11:24:09Z idurand: H4ns: when I compile SBCL do I have to do something special in order to have this subsystem? 2015-02-20T11:26:51Z H4ns: i don't think so, no. if require returns nil, all is well with it. 2015-02-20T11:27:43Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T11:27:45Z H4ns: are you on debian? just stabbing in the dark now :) 2015-02-20T11:29:20Z idurand: H4ns: UBUNTU 14.04 LTS 2015-02-20T11:29:40Z H4ns: did you ever install sbcl using apt-get install or the package manager? 2015-02-20T11:31:24Z idurand: I install SBCL locally because I am not root on the machine at work 2015-02-20T11:32:28Z Shinmera joined #lisp 2015-02-20T11:33:52Z sol__: hi guys, how do i define a static member of a class? 2015-02-20T11:34:05Z H4ns: sol__: you don't. 2015-02-20T11:34:09Z Shinmera: What's a "member" and what does "static" mean to you? 2015-02-20T11:34:17Z H4ns: sol__: just use a special variable instead. 2015-02-20T11:34:29Z idurand: H4ns: I think that the conclusion is that the problem is my SBCL. So I am going to try other way to install it and let you know. Thanks 2015-02-20T11:34:36Z sol__: class A { static int a; } 2015-02-20T11:34:49Z oleo: morning 2015-02-20T11:34:51Z Shinmera: idurand: I think that can happen when SBCL can't reach the contribs or something. 2015-02-20T11:35:23Z sol__: H4ns, but what if i want to tie the variable to a class... 2015-02-20T11:35:43Z sol__: it has no meaning if not used in relation to other class slots 2015-02-20T11:35:43Z Shinmera: Do you only want to, or do you have a good reason to? 2015-02-20T11:35:47Z joshmcmillan__ joined #lisp 2015-02-20T11:35:48Z arpunk quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-02-20T11:35:51Z idurand: Shinmera: why could this happen? 2015-02-20T11:36:00Z Shinmera: idurand: Check your SBCL_HOME 2015-02-20T11:36:05Z Shinmera: idurand: env variable, I mean 2015-02-20T11:36:12Z endou________ joined #lisp 2015-02-20T11:36:15Z H4ns: sol__: you can look at class allocated slots. they are less useful than one might seem, though. 2015-02-20T11:36:49Z idurand: Shinmera: right! I had to unset it for the install and I should perhaps set it back 2015-02-20T11:36:51Z sol__: mm okay i think ill do with a regular variable for now, will explore clos/mop later 2015-02-20T11:36:57Z H4ns: sol__: as i said yesterday, you're better off leaving your assumptions from other languages outside before entering the lisp room. it makes for a much better experience. 2015-02-20T11:37:30Z sol__: it makes sense to me in software engineering sense to not have random variable scattered around 2015-02-20T11:37:39Z sol__: just makes the code harder to read imo 2015-02-20T11:37:49Z Shinmera: Right, but you're still thinking in C++ OOP terms, not CLOS terms. 2015-02-20T11:38:00Z Shinmera: "static" class slots are something you hardly ever need. 2015-02-20T11:38:14Z H4ns: http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/06/opinionated.gif 2015-02-20T11:38:31Z sol__: my specific use case is that i have a hard constraint on a field: it has to be 20 bytes in length 2015-02-20T11:38:40Z sol__: how would you do suggest to do this? 2015-02-20T11:38:58Z rjmacready: sol__: you can hide globals with packages, if you want to bother 2015-02-20T11:39:43Z H4ns: sol__: if you are modeling something like a record with fixed-length fields, the mop works well for that. 2015-02-20T11:39:54Z arpunk joined #lisp 2015-02-20T11:40:25Z H4ns: sol__: but it sounds as if a class allocated slot might do what you want, so look at :allocation :class 2015-02-20T11:40:50Z sol__: thanks H4ns, exactly what i was looking for 2015-02-20T11:43:11Z sol__: are there any books/tutorial on style guides for lisp? 2015-02-20T11:43:17Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp 2015-02-20T11:43:25Z sol__: idiomatic code etc 2015-02-20T11:43:33Z H4ns: https://google-styleguide.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/lispguide.xml 2015-02-20T11:43:43Z endou_______ quit (*.net *.split) 2015-02-20T11:43:43Z joshmcmillan_ quit (*.net *.split) 2015-02-20T11:43:50Z joshmcmillan__ is now known as joshmcmillan_ 2015-02-20T11:44:21Z H4ns: sol__: also, avoid following the style of paul graham or doug hoyte :) 2015-02-20T11:44:55Z sol__: really? from what i've read pg is supposed to be like the jesus of lisp, no? 2015-02-20T11:45:01Z H4ns: no. 2015-02-20T11:45:08Z Shinmera: Not at all. 2015-02-20T11:45:17Z H4ns: he's the jesus of claiming that tools matter. 2015-02-20T11:45:38Z H4ns: for getting rich, that is. 2015-02-20T11:45:56Z sol__: well they do 2015-02-20T11:46:04Z H4ns: right. good riddance :) 2015-02-20T11:46:46Z sol__: that's the reason i'm using cl - it is supposed to be an immensely powerful tool 2015-02-20T11:47:01Z sol__: if you can write something in 10x less code and 2x less time... 2015-02-20T11:47:06Z H4ns: when i want to feel powerful, i reach out for xslt 2015-02-20T11:47:47Z sol__: so what draws you to lisp then H4ns 2015-02-20T11:47:59Z H4ns: sol__: those are all lies. in the end, it matters much more what you enjoy doing. if you enjoy doing java and have the brain to grasp enough of it, you can be very productive with it. 2015-02-20T11:48:40Z H4ns: sol__: i use lisp because i like writing code in it. sure, i sometimes claim that it is "better" and "more powerful" etc., but the real reason is very selfish. 2015-02-20T11:49:36Z Shinmera: My measure for "good programming language" is for how long I can stand to stare at it. Turns out CL is very good at that for me. 2015-02-20T11:49:48Z Shinmera: Maybe too good. I should be focusing on other things. 2015-02-20T11:50:06Z intinig quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T11:50:49Z intinig joined #lisp 2015-02-20T11:51:43Z sol__: in the end though, we create things and that's the point. You need to create things with best tools available. A tool can't be good if its not fun to use 2015-02-20T11:51:55Z sol__: like an axe with blade for handle 2015-02-20T11:52:10Z sol__: so my argument is that lisp being powerful means it also must be fun to program in 2015-02-20T11:52:11Z Shinmera: If you equate good with fun, then sure. I don't necessarily do that. 2015-02-20T11:52:27Z sol__: gimme an example of good tools that are not fun to use 2015-02-20T11:52:56Z rjmacready: sol__: maybe smalltalk (pharo, ..)? 2015-02-20T11:53:00Z Shinmera: Broad statements like that are difficult. There's tools that are very good for some things, but not for others. "Good" is relative to the task. 2015-02-20T11:53:39Z sol__: rjmacready, smalltalk actually reminds me alot of lisp just with nicer UI 2015-02-20T11:53:41Z rjmacready: I think the point is, fun is a subjective measure (maybe good also is?...) 2015-02-20T11:53:57Z Shinmera: Writing assembly directly can be "good" if you need absolute control, but I personally don't think it's very "fun". 2015-02-20T11:54:09Z sol__: mm good point Shinmera :) 2015-02-20T11:54:11Z H4ns: i think assembler is a lot of fun to write. 2015-02-20T11:54:15Z rjmacready: sol__: yeah that's true, it's a nicer lisp machine if you will (thinking of genera) 2015-02-20T11:54:41Z idurand: Shinmera: H4ns: After adding the SBCL_HOME/contrib path to asdf:*central-registry*, I could load sb-bsd-sockets and at the end install clx. Thank you all! 2015-02-20T11:55:27Z Shinmera: idurand: That sounds wrong. 2015-02-20T11:56:43Z Shinmera: rjmacready: Good is a subjective matter if you equate it with a subjective thing like "fun". Usually when people mean "good" they tend to relate it to things that are at least somewhat measurable. 2015-02-20T11:57:23Z rjmacready is brainfucked. 2015-02-20T11:57:54Z rjmacready: that reminds me of something 2015-02-20T11:58:01Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-20T11:58:10Z rjmacready: has anyone have resources on writing custom mops? (is this a thing?) 2015-02-20T11:58:13Z Mon_Ouie quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-02-20T11:58:13Z Shinmera: idurand: what does (logical-pathname-translations "SYS") give you? 2015-02-20T11:58:24Z Shinmera: rjmacready: What 2015-02-20T11:58:32Z idurand: Shinmera: I agree that one should not have to do something like that. Who tells asdf to look in the contrib directory. Are some links missing ? 2015-02-20T11:58:59Z intinig quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-02-20T11:59:02Z urandom__ joined #lisp 2015-02-20T12:00:03Z robot-beethoven quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2015-02-20T12:00:24Z rjmacready: like writing a CLOS with custom code on the generic dispatch method calling (am I making any sense?) 2015-02-20T12:01:02Z Shinmera: Do you mean custom method combinations? 2015-02-20T12:01:04Z idurand: (Shinmera: something like: ("SYS:SRC;**;*.*.*" #P"/nfs4/home4/idurand/Install/sbcl-1.2.7/src/**/*.*")("SYS:CONTRIB;**;*.*.*" #P"/nfs4/home4/idurand/Install/sbcl-1.2.7/contrib/**/*.*")("SYS:OUTPUT;**;*.*.*" #P"/nfs4/home4/idurand/Install/sbcl-1.2.7/output/**/*.*")) 2015-02-20T12:01:26Z Shinmera: idurand: Do those paths correlate to where you actually installed things? 2015-02-20T12:01:42Z rjmacready: I found this http://www.muc.de/~hoelzl/tools/dbc/dbc.lisp 2015-02-20T12:01:53Z idurand: Shinmera: no it's the path of the sources 2015-02-20T12:01:56Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2015-02-20T12:02:30Z beetlebum quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T12:02:36Z Shinmera: idurand: Hm. Well, I'm not sure. 2015-02-20T12:03:16Z Shinmera: idurand: Maybe ask in #sbcl, they know better than me. 2015-02-20T12:03:44Z idurand: Shinmera: at least I know where the problem comes from and I can investigate some more and ask SBCL if necessary. Thanks again. 2015-02-20T12:04:03Z qubitnerd joined #lisp 2015-02-20T12:04:27Z Shinmera: idurand: You might also try using http://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/85 2015-02-20T12:04:42Z Shinmera: idurand: I added some things that deal with the logical pathnames, but I don't know if that'll actually fix anything for you 2015-02-20T12:05:16Z Shinmera: BBL 2015-02-20T12:05:19Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。) 2015-02-20T12:06:00Z paradoja joined #lisp 2015-02-20T12:06:38Z idurand: Shinmera: I shall have a look. Thank you. 2015-02-20T12:06:51Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-20T12:08:41Z idurand quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-02-20T12:08:53Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2015-02-20T12:08:59Z rjmacready: Shinmera: i think it checks out, i mean "custom method combinations" 2015-02-20T12:12:00Z eudoxia joined #lisp 2015-02-20T12:14:53Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-02-20T12:16:08Z Shinmera joined #lisp 2015-02-20T12:18:28Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2015-02-20T12:21:59Z ASau joined #lisp 2015-02-20T12:23:14Z _Loic_ joined #lisp 2015-02-20T12:27:34Z zeitue quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-02-20T12:28:14Z Joreji joined #lisp 2015-02-20T12:28:35Z Harag quit (Quit: Harag) 2015-02-20T12:31:39Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-02-20T12:34:11Z Joreji quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-20T12:36:14Z intinig joined #lisp 2015-02-20T12:38:34Z Joreji joined #lisp 2015-02-20T12:39:53Z zeitue joined #lisp 2015-02-20T12:40:45Z EvW joined #lisp 2015-02-20T12:40:46Z ethycol joined #lisp 2015-02-20T12:44:31Z Guthur` joined #lisp 2015-02-20T12:45:04Z gko__ joined #lisp 2015-02-20T12:45:53Z _Loic_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-02-20T12:47:22Z qubitnerd quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-20T12:47:37Z davazp quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T12:48:06Z davazp joined #lisp 2015-02-20T12:48:32Z hitecnologys joined #lisp 2015-02-20T12:49:31Z ghard quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-02-20T12:51:13Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-02-20T12:53:24Z przl joined #lisp 2015-02-20T12:54:22Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-02-20T12:54:42Z pranavrc quit 2015-02-20T13:01:51Z dim: https://github.com/dimitri/pgloader/issues/172#issuecomment-75189940 will need some wisdom from you guys here, CORRUPTION WARNING in SBCL pid 14322(tid 140737354061568): Memory fault at 0 (pc=0x333c73357f, sp=0x7ffff1d0eff8) when using cl-mssql 2015-02-20T13:01:54Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp 2015-02-20T13:01:57Z enitiz joined #lisp 2015-02-20T13:02:05Z dim: cl-mssql is cffi binding over freetds 2015-02-20T13:02:24Z dim: I would like that the best path forward isn't writing my own pure CL mssql driver... 2015-02-20T13:02:48Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-20T13:05:41Z kushal joined #lisp 2015-02-20T13:11:40Z ThePhoeron quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-02-20T13:12:14Z psy_ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-02-20T13:13:23Z resttime quit (Quit: resttime) 2015-02-20T13:16:08Z apathor quit (Quit: :|) 2015-02-20T13:17:15Z sol__: how can i check if flex:vector-stream has any elements left? 2015-02-20T13:21:51Z H4ns: sol__: http://weitz.de/flexi-streams/#peek-byte 2015-02-20T13:22:34Z hiyosi quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-20T13:23:09Z camm` joined #lisp 2015-02-20T13:23:40Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2015-02-20T13:24:23Z juanlas quit (Quit: juanlas) 2015-02-20T13:27:30Z sol__: doesn't work on vector-input-stream 2015-02-20T13:28:06Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。) 2015-02-20T13:28:15Z enitiz quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-02-20T13:29:19Z H4ns: because? 2015-02-20T13:29:30Z fantazo joined #lisp 2015-02-20T13:31:04Z sol__: i need to wrap vector stream in flexi stream just to be able to peek a byte and that's just in order to know if stream has any input left 2015-02-20T13:31:11Z H4ns: indeed. 2015-02-20T13:31:12Z sol__: awesome design 2015-02-20T13:32:02Z H4ns: *shrug* 2015-02-20T13:33:47Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-20T13:35:04Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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For "infinity", I use most-positive-long-float ; there may be bigger bignums, but if you don't expect them, that should be good. 2015-02-20T13:47:13Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-02-20T13:47:34Z hitecnologys quit (Quit: hitecnologys) 2015-02-20T13:47:58Z Patzy joined #lisp 2015-02-20T13:49:20Z Davidbrcz quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-02-20T13:52:09Z przl_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-20T13:53:10Z Guthur` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T13:53:39Z hitecnologys joined #lisp 2015-02-20T13:54:31Z Vutral joined #lisp 2015-02-20T13:55:02Z arpunk quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T13:55:42Z pjb: coucou747: I don't understand your problem with clisp. I use it for my scripts, some of them are "binary" filters, and it doesn't issue any unwanted newline. 2015-02-20T13:56:06Z pjb: coucou747: what are you doing? 2015-02-20T13:56:14Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp 2015-02-20T13:56:59Z intinig quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T13:57:25Z Shinmera joined #lisp 2015-02-20T13:57:34Z intinig joined #lisp 2015-02-20T14:00:50Z flip214: mega1: shouldn't DEFREADTABLE's :FUZE be :FUSE ? 2015-02-20T14:01:07Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-20T14:01:19Z coucou747: pjb, (princ "foo") (princ "foo") write me "foofoo\n" 2015-02-20T14:01:27Z drmeister: Occasionally I write functions that look like this: 2015-02-20T14:01:32Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/QdcKzOUY 2015-02-20T14:01:58Z drmeister: I'm in package FOO and I'm using a lot of symbols in package CMP. 2015-02-20T14:02:05Z hitecnologys quit (Quit: hitecnologys) 2015-02-20T14:02:46Z drmeister: What are my options for temporarily telling Common Lisp that I'm using symbols in the CMP package so I don't need to put all those CMP package headers in there? 2015-02-20T14:02:53Z H4ns: drmeister: sbcl has adopted a syntax from allegro cl making that easier. you can prefix a list with a package name to have the reader read it in that package 2015-02-20T14:03:01Z pjb: coucou747: the proof it doesn't: (progn (princ "foo") (princ "foo") (princ "bar")) prints bar on the same line as foofoo. 2015-02-20T14:03:05Z drmeister: I guess it could be argued that this function should be in package CMP 2015-02-20T14:03:17Z mega1: flip214: I think you are right, but I'm not a native english speaker. 2015-02-20T14:03:20Z drmeister: H4ns: What does that syntax look like? 2015-02-20T14:03:21Z H4ns: drmeister: so cmp::(foo (bar)) would be read as (cmp::foo (cmp::bar)) 2015-02-20T14:03:31Z przl joined #lisp 2015-02-20T14:03:38Z H4ns: drmeister: allegro cl does it with a single colon 2015-02-20T14:03:59Z H4ns: drmeister: there are also macros that achieve the same thing 2015-02-20T14:04:49Z flip214: mega1: would you please make an alias for that? It hurts my eyes, sorry ;} 2015-02-20T14:04:52Z drmeister: I see - thank you. I could add that to my reader. 2015-02-20T14:06:12Z flip214: mega1: and allow one more question, please... is there a way to start parsing the input with a function, right after IN-READTABLE? 2015-02-20T14:06:32Z drmeister: I can compose functions now: (cleavir-compile 'hyp '(lambda (x y) (sqrt (+ (* x x) (* y y))))) 2015-02-20T14:06:41Z mega1: flip214: I can't parse that question, but I'm working on it. 2015-02-20T14:06:47Z flip214: so that some new readtable could be defined, and the (in-readtable...) runs that function right after switching the *readtable* (module some whitespace) 2015-02-20T14:07:09Z drmeister: http://imgur.com/8CMvjHa 2015-02-20T14:07:19Z drmeister: (hyp 2 3) --> 3.60555 2015-02-20T14:07:35Z flip214: I'm thinking about something like this: "(in-readtable perl) $a = 1 ; print $a ;" [sorry if that hurts somebody ;] 2015-02-20T14:07:35Z mulk joined #lisp 2015-02-20T14:08:04Z NhanH quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-02-20T14:08:31Z ebrasca joined #lisp 2015-02-20T14:09:39Z pjb: coucou747: actually, by streaming commands don't use princ, but write-sequence. It seems that write-sequence doesn't increment the column, and therefore fresh-lines thinks it's in column 0 and it doesn't output a newline. 2015-02-20T14:09:39Z mega1: flip214: I probably don't understand the question, because there is no need for any function here. 2015-02-20T14:09:49Z pjb: coucou747: so you could use write-sequence instead of princ. 2015-02-20T14:09:52Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-20T14:09:52Z victor_lowther quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-02-20T14:10:35Z flip214: mega1: I can define a readtable, and have it parse the source as soon as it's triggered via some character - eg. #\[. 2015-02-20T14:10:50Z pjb: coucou747: ah, no, it's not that. It's because I switch to binary output. 2015-02-20T14:10:58Z bb010g quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-02-20T14:11:16Z pjb: coucou747: http://git.informatimago.com/viewgit/index.php?a=viewblob&p=public/bin&h=d4928f015cbf9c4b357f9e28f2fee13b11afc199&hb=e68c62fa38191e15a3eb9e923425dd1afc53d77b&f=text 2015-02-20T14:11:18Z mega1: flip214: that's how readtables are supposed to work 2015-02-20T14:11:20Z flip214: now, to have a readtable trigger *immediately*, I'd have to use one function for *all* characters to call my function, and then change *readtable* within that again. 2015-02-20T14:12:03Z larion joined #lisp 2015-02-20T14:12:08Z flip214: ie. it's about parsing other kind of languages without having some specific start character. 2015-02-20T14:12:32Z flip214: that's what I mean by having eg. a :PARSE-FN in DEFREADTABLE. 2015-02-20T14:13:52Z Vutral joined #lisp 2015-02-20T14:13:59Z Amaan joined #lisp 2015-02-20T14:14:45Z mega1: flip214: that cannot work in general 2015-02-20T14:14:58Z mega1: consider (let ((*readtable* readtable)) ...) 2015-02-20T14:15:25Z mega1: or would it onlly affect in-readtable? 2015-02-20T14:16:03Z flip214: yeah, right. for (LET ()) it wouldn't work that way. 2015-02-20T14:16:21Z flip214: for that we'd need a (WITH-READTABLE (readtable stream ...) &BODY ) macro ;) 2015-02-20T14:16:25Z pjb: coucou747: that said, switching to binary stream doesn't work on the terminal, so you can't apply that for a "hello world" program. But normal unix hello world programs do print a newline at the end. You should report a bug/feature request, so that it would be possible to do what you want. 2015-02-20T14:17:46Z flip214: mega1: and as you are developing PAX, too, another wish/request/idea: 2015-02-20T14:18:27Z mega1: flip214: I can't see how to extend readtables this way within the standard. 2015-02-20T14:18:39Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2015-02-20T14:18:40Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 2015-02-20T14:18:40Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2015-02-20T14:19:02Z flip214: on eg http://melisgl.github.io/mgl-pax-world/index.html make the links not have title="(MGL-PAX-WORLD:@MGL-PAX-WORLD-MANUAL MGL-PAX:SECTION)" but the description text ("Cross-linked HTML documentation for systems known to use MGL-PAX") 2015-02-20T14:19:20Z flip214: mega1: of course, for that (NAMED-READTABLES:IN-READTABLE ...) has to be used... 2015-02-20T14:19:37Z flip214: for that would be something that CL21 can easily take, too. 2015-02-20T14:20:23Z davazp quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-02-20T14:22:24Z NhanH joined #lisp 2015-02-20T14:22:25Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2015-02-20T14:22:28Z mega1: re pax, I can add a special case for links to sections, but nothing else that can be linked to has a title. 2015-02-20T14:23:22Z joneshf-laptop quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-02-20T14:24:35Z victor_lowther joined #lisp 2015-02-20T14:24:58Z coucou747: pjb, I work on a compiler wich write some code in 20 languages, the goal is to make some human readable code 2015-02-20T14:25:40Z coucou747: in ada, I did the same hack as you 2015-02-20T14:25:49Z coucou747: but it's not really human readable 2015-02-20T14:27:01Z coucou747: with scbl, I don't have the problem, so it's ok for me, I can use sbcl insted of clisp 2015-02-20T14:28:46Z hitecnologys joined #lisp 2015-02-20T14:28:49Z flip214: mega1: just wanted to drop my ideas and remarks. thanks for listening! 2015-02-20T14:29:13Z mega1: flip214: pushed the :FUSE thing 2015-02-20T14:29:54Z pjb: coucou747: anyways, the problem you have, is that you are quitting common lisp. The usual pattern is to stay inside lisp, and there, the final fresh-line never occurs. 2015-02-20T14:34:04Z _Loic_ joined #lisp 2015-02-20T14:34:13Z nyef joined #lisp 2015-02-20T14:34:25Z nyef: G'morning all. 2015-02-20T14:34:29Z flip214: mega1: thank you! 2015-02-20T14:35:12Z zeitue quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-02-20T14:36:48Z intinig quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T14:37:27Z intinig joined #lisp 2015-02-20T14:39:04Z ndrei joined #lisp 2015-02-20T14:40:20Z intinig quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T14:40:36Z intinig joined #lisp 2015-02-20T14:40:57Z przl joined #lisp 2015-02-20T14:40:58Z lispyone joined #lisp 2015-02-20T14:41:43Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T14:41:52Z bb010g joined #lisp 2015-02-20T14:43:19Z sol__: anyway to access previous result in repl? 2015-02-20T14:43:30Z pjb: * 2015-02-20T14:43:33Z sol__: cool 2015-02-20T14:43:40Z pjb: clhs ** 2015-02-20T14:43:40Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v__stst_.htm 2015-02-20T14:45:18Z loke_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T14:47:13Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-02-20T14:48:06Z zeitue joined #lisp 2015-02-20T14:48:39Z johnnuy1046 joined #lisp 2015-02-20T14:48:44Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-02-20T14:48:47Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T14:49:02Z mega1: flip214: thanks for the feedback, pushed the change to pax and updated pax world 2015-02-20T14:49:22Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-02-20T14:49:31Z dafunktion joined #lisp 2015-02-20T14:49:41Z ndrei joined #lisp 2015-02-20T14:52:54Z psy_ joined #lisp 2015-02-20T14:53:20Z normanrichards quit 2015-02-20T14:53:25Z psy_ quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2015-02-20T14:54:19Z psy_ joined #lisp 2015-02-20T14:58:39Z badkins joined #lisp 2015-02-20T14:58:58Z mishoo_ joined #lisp 2015-02-20T15:01:00Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-02-20T15:01:25Z Acherontius quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T15:01:26Z xrash joined #lisp 2015-02-20T15:01:32Z oleo: why is CERN using such old versions of sbcl like v0.8.4 or some such ? 2015-02-20T15:01:42Z az joined #lisp 2015-02-20T15:01:47Z oleo: err v.0.8.14 2015-02-20T15:03:11Z moore33 joined #lisp 2015-02-20T15:04:05Z eudoxia: TIL CERN uses CL 2015-02-20T15:04:23Z juanlas joined #lisp 2015-02-20T15:04:35Z Mawile quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2015-02-20T15:07:19Z mega1: for what do they use CL? 2015-02-20T15:08:06Z ggole: Using old versions of things in production is hardly uncommon 2015-02-20T15:09:14Z oleo is now known as Guest1639 2015-02-20T15:11:00Z oleo__ joined #lisp 2015-02-20T15:11:49Z Guest1639 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-02-20T15:13:39Z keen__________69 joined #lisp 2015-02-20T15:14:48Z keen__________68 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-02-20T15:15:11Z Ethan- quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-20T15:19:52Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-02-20T15:20:25Z Petit_Dejeuner_ joined #lisp 2015-02-20T15:20:39Z Patzy joined #lisp 2015-02-20T15:21:52Z zeitue quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-02-20T15:23:57Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-02-20T15:24:00Z oleo__: nothing it seems yet.... 2015-02-20T15:24:03Z oleo__ quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2015-02-20T15:26:48Z Pyridrym joined #lisp 2015-02-20T15:27:33Z oleo__ joined #lisp 2015-02-20T15:27:44Z ovenpasta quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-20T15:27:48Z oleo__ is now known as oleo 2015-02-20T15:27:52Z EvW joined #lisp 2015-02-20T15:29:05Z Mawile joined #lisp 2015-02-20T15:29:11Z johnnuy1046 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T15:29:51Z Kanae joined #lisp 2015-02-20T15:33:34Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-20T15:33:39Z Petit_Dejeuner_: oleo, SBCL v0.8.4 has a secret undocumented microcode emulator. 2015-02-20T15:33:43Z Petit_Dejeuner_: /joke 2015-02-20T15:34:25Z pt1 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-20T15:35:40Z zeitue joined #lisp 2015-02-20T15:40:37Z mordocai joined #lisp 2015-02-20T15:41:32Z zeitue quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-20T15:41:41Z rjmacready quit (Quit: Page closed) 2015-02-20T15:43:31Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp 2015-02-20T15:43:31Z Mon_Ouie quit (Changing host) 2015-02-20T15:43:31Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp 2015-02-20T15:46:04Z mulk quit (Quit: mulk) 2015-02-20T15:46:56Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2015-02-20T15:47:35Z xrash quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-02-20T15:48:19Z theseb joined #lisp 2015-02-20T15:49:36Z sol__ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-02-20T15:49:55Z enitiz joined #lisp 2015-02-20T15:51:10Z a20150101 quit (Quit: Page closed) 2015-02-20T15:52:29Z kapil___ quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2015-02-20T15:52:54Z xrash joined #lisp 2015-02-20T15:53:25Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-02-20T15:54:07Z theseb joined #lisp 2015-02-20T15:55:06Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-02-20T15:56:13Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-02-20T15:57:45Z gz quit (Input/output error) 2015-02-20T15:57:45Z gluegadget quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T15:57:46Z endou________ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T15:57:46Z victor_lowther quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T15:57:46Z bb010g quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T15:57:46Z NhanH quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T15:57:46Z gz quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T15:57:46Z splittist quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T15:57:46Z cojy_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T15:58:44Z przl joined #lisp 2015-02-20T16:00:22Z antgreen joined #lisp 2015-02-20T16:01:59Z enitiz quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-20T16:02:05Z Xof: 0.8.4 was the last good version 2015-02-20T16:02:46Z ehu: Xof: all the otherones are more than "good"? 2015-02-20T16:04:35Z Xof: 0.8.5 is when we started committing to stable interfaces for things like slime 2015-02-20T16:04:40Z Xof: the rot set in then 2015-02-20T16:04:56Z scymtym joined #lisp 2015-02-20T16:05:17Z pjb: Yes. Like 20.7 was the last good version of emacs :-) 2015-02-20T16:05:35Z pjb: (but I'm still happy to have lexical binding in emacs 23). 2015-02-20T16:07:01Z moore33: I thought 18.58 had a certain charm. 2015-02-20T16:07:41Z pjb: 20.7 was much better on X. 2015-02-20T16:07:41Z lispyone quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T16:08:20Z cabaire joined #lisp 2015-02-20T16:09:21Z fantazo quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2015-02-20T16:11:45Z Joreji joined #lisp 2015-02-20T16:12:23Z flash- quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-20T16:14:24Z lispyone joined #lisp 2015-02-20T16:14:26Z NhanH joined #lisp 2015-02-20T16:14:32Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-02-20T16:16:02Z cojy_ joined #lisp 2015-02-20T16:16:16Z a20150101 joined #lisp 2015-02-20T16:16:22Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-02-20T16:16:48Z victor_lowther joined #lisp 2015-02-20T16:17:08Z splittist joined #lisp 2015-02-20T16:18:00Z Joreji joined #lisp 2015-02-20T16:19:01Z nell joined #lisp 2015-02-20T16:21:37Z endou________ joined #lisp 2015-02-20T16:23:47Z gluegadget joined #lisp 2015-02-20T16:24:28Z enitiz joined #lisp 2015-02-20T16:26:22Z ovenpasta joined #lisp 2015-02-20T16:26:40Z bb010g joined #lisp 2015-02-20T16:27:12Z gz joined #lisp 2015-02-20T16:29:04Z Xach: eudoxia: asdf-linguist is busted. the system file has an extra :long-description. 2015-02-20T16:29:11Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-02-20T16:29:39Z eudoxia: Xach: oh right, i forgot to commit that fix, thanks 2015-02-20T16:29:49Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-02-20T16:30:36Z Xach: mega1: mgl-pax doesn't build for me today 2015-02-20T16:30:46Z Xach: Symbol "RESOLVE" not found in the MGL-PAX package 2015-02-20T16:31:55Z badkins quit 2015-02-20T16:33:53Z mega1: Xach: are you on 79006bc? 2015-02-20T16:34:04Z intinig quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T16:34:12Z mega1: there were to compilation fixes for stuff I committed today 2015-02-20T16:34:17Z Xach: Ok. I'll update again. 2015-02-20T16:34:27Z mega1: althought that particular error doesn't ring a bell 2015-02-20T16:34:40Z intinig joined #lisp 2015-02-20T16:34:44Z Xach: looks better now 2015-02-20T16:34:52Z Xach: sorry for the noise. 2015-02-20T16:35:03Z Ven joined #lisp 2015-02-20T16:35:59Z mega1: I'm sorry for the breakage. 2015-02-20T16:36:36Z mega1: is the next quicklisp release near? 2015-02-20T16:37:20Z Xach: yes, hopefully within a few days 2015-02-20T16:37:24Z eudoxia: cool 2015-02-20T16:37:32Z hitecnologys: Is there a way to find out what ASDF wants when it says there were errors but doesn't give any specific location besides file? 2015-02-20T16:38:16Z mega1: search backwards for WARN 2015-02-20T16:38:40Z k-stz joined #lisp 2015-02-20T16:39:43Z hitecnologys: There's only one warning and it's not critical. 2015-02-20T16:39:54Z Xach: it only takes one 2015-02-20T16:39:55Z cabaire quit (Quit: leaving) 2015-02-20T16:40:00Z Xach: what is the warning? 2015-02-20T16:40:15Z hitecnologys: "Function takes two arguments but given three"-one. 2015-02-20T16:40:28Z hitecnologys: It's not in top level so it doesn't matter that much. 2015-02-20T16:40:44Z Xach: hitecnologys: that is the fatal problem. 2015-02-20T16:40:51Z hitecnologys: Xach: how come? 2015-02-20T16:40:58Z Xach: because that is how asdf and sbcl work. 2015-02-20T16:41:02Z Xach: fix it and things will work. 2015-02-20T16:41:08Z hitecnologys: Hmm. 2015-02-20T16:42:33Z hitecnologys: ... 2015-02-20T16:42:40Z hitecnologys: It does fixed the error. 2015-02-20T16:42:57Z hitecnologys: How exactly does this work? 2015-02-20T16:43:10Z intinig quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-02-20T16:43:18Z Xach: sbcl detects the error at compile time and issues a warning. asdf treats the warning as fatal. 2015-02-20T16:43:53Z hitecnologys: Why didn't it complain before? The sources loaded just fine on 1.2.6. 2015-02-20T16:46:01Z hitecnologys: Alright, thank you for help a lot. It would most probably take me lots of time, if I tried figuring that out myself. 2015-02-20T16:46:21Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-20T16:47:09Z Patzy joined #lisp 2015-02-20T16:48:23Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2015-02-20T16:49:13Z intinig joined #lisp 2015-02-20T16:49:50Z tharugrim joined #lisp 2015-02-20T16:50:15Z eudoxia: Xach: it's fixed now 2015-02-20T16:50:55Z qubitnerd joined #lisp 2015-02-20T16:51:28Z Kanae quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-20T16:51:50Z alejandrozf joined #lisp 2015-02-20T16:53:47Z agumonkey_ joined #lisp 2015-02-20T16:57:05Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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I was able to make it work: https://filebox.tymoon.eu/file/TXpjNA== 2015-02-20T17:07:28Z oGMo: Shinmera: cool! 2015-02-20T17:07:41Z quazimod1 joined #lisp 2015-02-20T17:07:52Z Shinmera: I'm doing some illegal things with the reader right now, so I'll have to solve that, but otherwise it seems to work nicely. 2015-02-20T17:08:01Z quazimod1 quit (Client Quit) 2015-02-20T17:08:07Z oGMo: Shinmera: what's your process? 2015-02-20T17:08:31Z oGMo: i.e. how/what are you doing there 2015-02-20T17:08:51Z hiyosi quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-02-20T17:09:12Z Shinmera: A reader macro on #\( that tests if I'm in a function call to a symbol in the q+ package. If so, translate it to a macro call, which then ensures that the method is compiled and expands to a call to the actual function. 2015-02-20T17:09:27Z oGMo: haha 2015-02-20T17:10:00Z Shinmera: Unfortunately determining if I'm calling a q+ symbol requires potentially calling unread-char more than once, which is not conforming. 2015-02-20T17:10:02Z Joreji quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-20T17:10:09Z oGMo: that seems a bit extreme, but it's at least a start, and the concept seems to work 2015-02-20T17:10:14Z Shinmera: So I'll have to figure out how to go about that properly -- sbcl allows it, but yeah. 2015-02-20T17:10:16Z radioninja quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-02-20T17:11:01Z mega1: Shinmera: test it on buffer boundaries. I'm not sure it'll work. 2015-02-20T17:11:06Z kobain joined #lisp 2015-02-20T17:11:29Z Shinmera: mega1: I'm sorry, I don't quite know what you mean. 2015-02-20T17:11:37Z oGMo: you could use #q: 2015-02-20T17:11:48Z mega1: the stream has an internal buffer 2015-02-20T17:11:49Z kobain quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2015-02-20T17:12:06Z kobain joined #lisp 2015-02-20T17:12:08Z oGMo: i.e., sharpsign-q and look for a colon, read a symbol 2015-02-20T17:12:25Z Shinmera: oGMo: Right, I could. This seemed so much more appealing, albeit dangerous though. 2015-02-20T17:12:37Z enitiz quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-20T17:12:44Z oGMo: Shinmera: dangerous? 2015-02-20T17:12:49Z mega1: if the buffer gets full by the first unread-char the second may fail 2015-02-20T17:12:55Z Shinmera: Well, I consider overriding the #\( read macro dangerous. 2015-02-20T17:13:11Z lispyone quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T17:13:13Z oGMo: yes that is _very_ dangerous and i'm not entirely sure it's conforming either, but i'm not sure 2015-02-20T17:13:17Z Shinmera: mega1: Right, I see. Not sure how I could test for that. 2015-02-20T17:13:33Z Shinmera: oGMo: Well I'm using my own read table, so I can do whatever. 2015-02-20T17:13:35Z Bike: redefining it is fine conformance-wise 2015-02-20T17:13:36Z oGMo: Shinmera: ah 2015-02-20T17:13:40Z Bike: dangerous, yes 2015-02-20T17:14:14Z redeemed quit (Quit: q) 2015-02-20T17:14:47Z Bike: maybe you could define every function as a dummy function that installs the real definition. that's only sort of crazy, right? 2015-02-20T17:14:51Z mega1: Shinmera: just by prefixing with a number spaces between 1 and 16384 2015-02-20T17:15:06Z Shinmera: Bike: that'll still lead to a long, long compile time. 2015-02-20T17:15:22Z Shinmera: Bike: the primary reason for this is to avoid having to precompile anything. 2015-02-20T17:15:36Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-02-20T17:15:46Z oGMo: you could also have a macro which expands to the call, like (q+ foo ...) 2015-02-20T17:16:01Z oGMo: then have reader magic which expands to that, and some other possible options 2015-02-20T17:16:17Z oGMo: so the reader stuff wouldn't be _necessary_, just optionally convenient 2015-02-20T17:16:20Z Shinmera: There's so many choices, almost unfortunately enough. 2015-02-20T17:16:28Z oGMo: yeah ;/ 2015-02-20T17:16:33Z oGMo: no _great_ ones 2015-02-20T17:16:56Z Shinmera: What I would /really/ want, is to dispatch when an unknown, unexported symbol is being read in that package. 2015-02-20T17:17:09Z Shinmera: from that package, rather. 2015-02-20T17:17:22Z cadadar joined #lisp 2015-02-20T17:17:34Z oGMo: yeah 2015-02-20T17:17:47Z Bike: do you not want to do like commonqt and have a reader macro just for the symbols? 2015-02-20T17:18:06Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2015-02-20T17:18:28Z Shinmera: Bike: I want to make it look like nothing's going on, ideally. 2015-02-20T17:18:54Z ndrei joined #lisp 2015-02-20T17:19:06Z Shinmera: Precompiling everything achieves that, because there really is nothing going on. This second approach does too, but it's ugly. 2015-02-20T17:19:25Z recycle quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T17:20:36Z mvilleneuve_ quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2015-02-20T17:20:48Z Shinmera: I'm mostly just experimenting around with what I can do, what's feasible, etc. 2015-02-20T17:21:05Z sol__ joined #lisp 2015-02-20T17:21:45Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-02-20T17:22:27Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-02-20T17:23:26Z Shinmera: Bike: I see the idea of doing like commonqt like a waste of time, since.. well, commonqt already does that and qtools depends on commonqt anyway, so there's no point in duplicating the efforts. 2015-02-20T17:23:35Z Shinmera: *as a waste of time 2015-02-20T17:23:47Z Bike: mm. 2015-02-20T17:24:03Z Shinmera: If you want you can always use the CommonQt readtable and work with that -- as you have to right now. 2015-02-20T17:24:04Z fantazo joined #lisp 2015-02-20T17:24:12Z Shinmera: But it represents a gap for me that I'd like to bridge. 2015-02-20T17:26:08Z enitiz joined #lisp 2015-02-20T17:27:50Z Xach: hitecnologys: as sbcl progresses, it detects more and more erroneous code at compile time 2015-02-20T17:29:42Z Shinmera: oGMo: The idea of using a general dispatch macro as an alternative to a package prefix was another thing that had occurred to me, but that for example doesn't allow you to get the argument number or docstring of the method you're calling. 2015-02-20T17:29:49Z hitecnologys: Xach: indeed. I suppose it's a good thing it does that. 2015-02-20T17:31:09Z oGMo: Shinmera: general dispatch macro? 2015-02-20T17:31:23Z beach joined #lisp 2015-02-20T17:31:30Z Shinmera: oGMo: Something like (q+ foo ..) that you suggested 2015-02-20T17:31:35Z beach: Good evening everyone! 2015-02-20T17:31:43Z oGMo: Shinmera: i'm not sure how that doesn't allow those things 2015-02-20T17:31:49Z jasom: Shinmera: what's the problem with recompiling, don't you only have to do it once? 2015-02-20T17:31:54Z arenz quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-20T17:32:18Z Shinmera: oGMo: Well the editor won't display the docstring or argument number for the method if you type in (q+ foo ..), no? 2015-02-20T17:32:18Z oGMo: Shinmera: er, oh, you mean slime 2015-02-20T17:32:30Z jasom: s/recompiling/precompiling 2015-02-20T17:32:32Z oGMo: sadly, if only slime were extensible :P 2015-02-20T17:32:52Z oGMo: ("publicly", "trivially"...) 2015-02-20T17:33:19Z nyef: Hello beach. 2015-02-20T17:33:30Z Shinmera: jasom: The problem is that Qt, or smoke, has modules that can be loaded additionally. So depending on that it needs to be regenerated and recompiled, which takes a long time. 2015-02-20T17:33:54Z Fade: heya, beach 2015-02-20T17:33:58Z Shinmera: oGMo: There certainly are quite a few places in the CL ecosystem where I'd wish things were easier to extend. 2015-02-20T17:34:11Z oGMo: Shinmera: definitely 2015-02-20T17:34:25Z oleo: now who is gonna implement css2.1 and 3 ? 2015-02-20T17:34:33Z oleo: oh man.... 2015-02-20T17:34:37Z oleo: lol 2015-02-20T17:34:59Z Shinmera: jasom: By a long time I mean minutes. 2015-02-20T17:35:00Z hitecnologys: beach: good evening. 2015-02-20T17:35:33Z Shinmera: jasom: This approach also results in thousands of functions and symbols littering your image, probably never to be used. 2015-02-20T17:35:57Z Alfr joined #lisp 2015-02-20T17:36:57Z cluck joined #lisp 2015-02-20T17:38:41Z qubitnerd is now known as qub1tnerd 2015-02-20T17:41:15Z jasom: Shinmera: If you split up the files compile times do improve 2015-02-20T17:41:31Z Shinmera: jasom: I can't because method names are shared. 2015-02-20T17:41:46Z jasom: Shinmera: no, I mean even for serial compilation 2015-02-20T17:42:04Z Shinmera: oh. Well, I was not aware of that. 2015-02-20T17:42:12Z jasom: though that might only be if the defmethods aren't toplevel forms, I don't remember what I ultimately found 2015-02-20T17:42:32Z jasom was running into compile times of multiple hours for the GTKSharp bindings 2015-02-20T17:42:44Z specbot quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T17:43:02Z specbot joined #lisp 2015-02-20T17:43:04Z Shinmera: Either way, the idea of pushing thousands of functions into an image that won't ever be used just doesn't sit comfortably with me. 2015-02-20T17:43:34Z selat quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-20T17:43:42Z minion joined #lisp 2015-02-20T17:44:07Z jasom: I had 78k DEFUNs 2015-02-20T17:44:21Z jasom: I was using functions, not methods though 2015-02-20T17:44:26Z Shinmera: so am I. 2015-02-20T17:44:58Z jasom: 09:41:31 Shinmera | jasom: I can't because method names are shared. 2015-02-20T17:45:27Z selat joined #lisp 2015-02-20T17:45:32Z Shinmera: Right, I should be clearer: Multiple classes can have multiple methods of the same name. Those methods are shared in the same resulting CL function. 2015-02-20T17:45:51Z jasom: aggg 2015-02-20T17:45:52Z jasom: er ahh 2015-02-20T17:46:33Z jasom: well as long as you are smart about when you decide to compile it (do it before I save my image). 2015-02-20T17:47:06Z Shinmera: Since a different smoke module probably is going to introduce classes with methods that overlap, I need to generate everything in one swoop when all needed modules are present. I can't compile a file for each module, unfortunately enough. 2015-02-20T17:47:35Z jasom ran into an issue with SBCLs deferred compilation of methods where if I spun up my LTK gui before I saved my image, my image startup times went from "a few seconds" to "a few hundred ms" 2015-02-20T17:47:51Z enitiz quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-02-20T17:48:25Z jasom: I don't remember the details, but it was roughly "every time SBCL gets a make-instance with a different set of arguments, it does compilation work" 2015-02-20T17:48:54Z jlongster joined #lisp 2015-02-20T17:49:02Z jasom: and nearly every single component of the GUI had different arguments from the rest, so SBCL was doing a lot of compilation when the GUI was first displayed 2015-02-20T17:49:27Z ethycol quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-20T17:49:31Z badkins joined #lisp 2015-02-20T17:50:20Z moore33 quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client) 2015-02-20T17:52:31Z serses joined #lisp 2015-02-20T17:52:53Z zacharias joined #lisp 2015-02-20T17:52:55Z serses: wtf (define (cons x y) (lambda (m) (m x y))) ? 2015-02-20T17:53:32Z coucou747: serses, lambda calcul ? 2015-02-20T17:53:44Z serses: what (lambda (m) (m x y)) do? 2015-02-20T17:53:59Z coucou747: it's a tuple construction in lambda calcul 2015-02-20T17:54:07Z apathor joined #lisp 2015-02-20T17:54:33Z coucou747: (define (hd x) (x (lambda (x y) x))) 2015-02-20T17:54:43Z coucou747: here you can get x from (cons x y) 2015-02-20T17:54:46Z ovenpasta quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-20T17:54:47Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-02-20T17:56:12Z paroneayea joined #lisp 2015-02-20T17:56:13Z innertracks quit (Client Quit) 2015-02-20T17:56:21Z nyef: Heh. Reminds me of trying to understand booleans in Smalltalk. 2015-02-20T17:56:32Z coucou747: serses, in lambda calcul, you just have lambda. cons does not exists. your definition of cons work 2015-02-20T17:56:33Z ggole: Hmm, wonder how you implement consp with that metho 2015-02-20T17:56:40Z ggole: d 2015-02-20T17:56:58Z nyef: You wouldn't, it's an untyped system. 2015-02-20T17:57:05Z serses: the part with lambda bothers me 2015-02-20T17:57:22Z _death: easy, (defun consp (x) (not (atom x))) ;) 2015-02-20T17:57:35Z ggole: nyef: guess you're right 2015-02-20T17:57:40Z coucou747: serses, it's one of the best contribution of lisp to other languages 2015-02-20T17:57:45Z ggole: You'd need an encoding for some tagging scheme 2015-02-20T17:58:06Z ggole: (Or static types.) 2015-02-20T17:58:07Z nyef: serses: It's an anonymous function. This implementation of CONS returns a function of one argument (which must be a function of two arguments), and calls it with the original X and Y. 2015-02-20T17:59:02Z nyef: ggole: You'd presumably reserve the first value in any such closure for a type identifier, making it (define (cons x y) (lambda (m) (m 'cons x y))). 2015-02-20T17:59:18Z nyef: ggole: The remainder is a small matter of programming. 2015-02-20T18:00:01Z ggole: Mmm, that seems about right 2015-02-20T18:00:02Z serses: nyef: so it is returning a lambda function with one argument in which are the 2 parameters of cons? 2015-02-20T18:00:33Z nyef: serses: Right. And then CAR and CDR (or whatever the accessors are) are functions of two arguments that return one or the other argument. 2015-02-20T18:00:40Z coucou747: serses, the 2 parameters of cons are in the context of this function 2015-02-20T18:01:07Z White_Flame: consider this: (define (add-two-numbers x y) (lambda (start) (+ start x y))) 2015-02-20T18:01:16Z nyef: Well, not quite functions of... They invoke their parameter with another function which... yeah. 2015-02-20T18:01:25Z White_Flame: where you get a function of 1 variable from that, which adds x and y to what's given 2015-02-20T18:02:11Z White_Flame: so if f = (add-two-numbers 1 2), then (f 5) would return 8 2015-02-20T18:02:19Z serses: is that freaking m that bothers me. is m suppose to be an operation ? 2015-02-20T18:02:36Z White_Flame: in my example, m would be the 5 2015-02-20T18:02:50Z ggole: m is the "cons cell" 2015-02-20T18:02:57Z coucou747: serses, lambda is just an function so m is a function 2015-02-20T18:02:59Z White_Flame: oh, sorry, slightly different as yeah, that is the head 2015-02-20T18:03:24Z ggole: I mean, m is the accessor 2015-02-20T18:03:26Z ggole: (Sorry.) 2015-02-20T18:03:37Z _death: serses: M is the function that selects what to do with X and Y 2015-02-20T18:04:49Z coucou747: serses, in lambda calcul, you just has lambdas, so when you need to make data structure the values are stored in lambda environment 2015-02-20T18:04:59Z coucou747: here you have a constructor for a tuple 2015-02-20T18:05:04Z kons quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-20T18:05:46Z serses: so m is basically a list in which i store some values? 2015-02-20T18:05:48Z White_Flame: I believe these would work as the "m" values: (define (car x y) x), (define (cdr x y) y) 2015-02-20T18:06:40Z White_Flame: so (car (cons 1 2)) returns 1 2015-02-20T18:06:48Z coucou747: no 2015-02-20T18:06:54Z coucou747: ((cons 1 2 car) 2015-02-20T18:06:54Z White_Flame: no, ((cons 1 2) car) 2015-02-20T18:07:08Z mishoo__ joined #lisp 2015-02-20T18:07:10Z isis_ joined #lisp 2015-02-20T18:07:20Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2015-02-20T18:07:26Z White_Flame: given that these examples aren't Common Lisp, the syntax is a bit of a rediscovery 2015-02-20T18:08:13Z mrSpec quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-02-20T18:08:22Z mishoo_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-02-20T18:08:38Z Vivitron` joined #lisp 2015-02-20T18:08:52Z ggole: I think it is (define (car f) (f (lambda (x y) x))) 2015-02-20T18:09:09Z mrSpec joined #lisp 2015-02-20T18:09:19Z Vivitron quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T18:09:37Z coucou747: ggole, i called it hd 15 minuts ago :) 2015-02-20T18:09:40Z White_Flame: yeah, that aligns better 2015-02-20T18:10:15Z therik quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-02-20T18:10:35Z coucou747: serses, are you learning scheme ? 2015-02-20T18:10:49Z serses: doing SICP exercices 2015-02-20T18:10:57Z gravicappa joined #lisp 2015-02-20T18:11:24Z Odin-: Which would be Scheme, yes. 2015-02-20T18:12:18Z coucou747: I never understood why people prefer the lambda of lisp than scheme 2015-02-20T18:12:55Z White_Flame: the lambda is pretty much the same, isn't it? Just defun vs define 2015-02-20T18:13:03Z White_Flame: have different parameters 2015-02-20T18:13:04Z nyef: "Scheme takes all defun out of Lisp." 2015-02-20T18:13:12Z ggole: And funcall 2015-02-20T18:13:17Z pjb: coucou747: That's because natural languages have the lisp-2 nature. 2015-02-20T18:13:21Z ggole: But otherwise very similar 2015-02-20T18:13:41Z Bicyclidine: funcall isn't very punny, though! 2015-02-20T18:13:55Z pjb: And you cannot even (define defun define) … 2015-02-20T18:14:00Z White_Flame: funcall y'all? 2015-02-20T18:14:11Z Odin-: pjb: Tell me about it. Moving from CL to various other programming languages makes me go "huh, why can't I use that as a variable name?" :p 2015-02-20T18:14:15Z coucou747: I was thinking about funcall 2015-02-20T18:14:23Z coucou747: in ocaml, we don't have this. 2015-02-20T18:14:30Z oGMo: Odin-: i have that problem so much 2015-02-20T18:14:32Z Bicyclidine: well, it's hard to type. 2015-02-20T18:14:32Z pjb: Odin-: index in C! :-{ 2015-02-20T18:15:17Z oGMo: "wait, you mean you have to make sure _no one else, ever_ used that name for something?!" 2015-02-20T18:15:36Z Odin-: pjb: C is ... a chapter unto itself. :) 2015-02-20T18:15:44Z pjb: coucou747: funcall is a consequence of the lisp-2 nature of CL. Notice that ((lambda (x) (* x x) 2) is just a syntactic tric :-) 2015-02-20T18:15:50Z Bicyclidine: funcall : (A -> B) -> A -> B i suppose... 2015-02-20T18:15:50Z Odin- likes C, it's a great tiny language. 2015-02-20T18:16:05Z Odin-: Building huge systems in it, though, just feels like asking for trouble... 2015-02-20T18:16:06Z Bicyclidine: tiny... 2015-02-20T18:16:19Z pjb: Let's say it's a fall back language when everything else fails, be it for technical or political reasons. 2015-02-20T18:16:28Z Odin-: Bicyclidine: C is tiny. The stdlib ain't. :D 2015-02-20T18:17:06Z Odin-: Really, C qua C is about as compact as the core of JavaScript. 2015-02-20T18:17:09Z Bicyclidine: i've spent too much of my life attempting to understand incomplete types to agree. which is unfortunate for me 2015-02-20T18:17:12Z dim: C is crappy and mostly unbearable, and I'm opinionated on the matter 2015-02-20T18:17:20Z ethycol joined #lisp 2015-02-20T18:17:22Z Bicyclidine: off topic, i guess 2015-02-20T18:17:39Z Odin-: *shrug* 2015-02-20T18:17:55Z dim: CL is mostly great and could be improved, but is already a very practical programming language to easily get things done 2015-02-20T18:18:00Z Odin-: This channel isn't quite as lax as the emacs one on enforcing the topic, but it seems liberal enough... :) 2015-02-20T18:18:26Z Bicyclidine: haskell has an operator $ that's a bit like funcall even though it's a "lisp-1", for precedence reasons. kinda funny 2015-02-20T18:18:58Z coucou747: Bicyclidine, $ is here to write less braces 2015-02-20T18:19:06Z Odin-: dim: What's interesting is that any vital stuff that isn't standard gets patched in with a compatibility layer fairly effectively. 2015-02-20T18:19:23Z Bicyclidine: coucou747: that's what i said. 2015-02-20T18:19:36Z mishoo_ joined #lisp 2015-02-20T18:19:41Z coucou747: oh I'm sorry 2015-02-20T18:19:54Z coucou747: english is not my natural language 2015-02-20T18:20:03Z Bicyclidine: no worries, i guess. 2015-02-20T18:20:17Z dim: Odin-: exaclty, and there are libs for loads of things out there 2015-02-20T18:20:31Z coucou747: ocaml is my natural language 2015-02-20T18:20:57Z dim: CL also is the first time that as a programmer I could effectively read (and edit!) the code of the dependencies (libs) I've picked 2015-02-20T18:21:01Z intinig quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T18:21:02Z vaporatorius joined #lisp 2015-02-20T18:21:08Z dim: M-. to read, if you edit C-M-x and try again 2015-02-20T18:21:17Z mishoo__ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-02-20T18:21:24Z Odin-: dim: And where there aren't, you can deal with C libraries at an arm's length. 2015-02-20T18:21:28Z dim: elisp allows that too but I got to actually benefit from that with CL 2015-02-20T18:21:31Z Odin-: (Which is where they belong.) 2015-02-20T18:22:02Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2015-02-20T18:25:18Z rszeno joined #lisp 2015-02-20T18:25:25Z sheilong joined #lisp 2015-02-20T18:25:45Z paradoja quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T18:25:50Z dstatyvka joined #lisp 2015-02-20T18:27:19Z ebrasca quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T18:30:01Z rszeno quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-20T18:30:04Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2015-02-20T18:34:01Z Alfr quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-02-20T18:34:36Z dafunktion quit 2015-02-20T18:35:35Z hardenedapple quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1.1) 2015-02-20T18:36:21Z dim: yeah, I wonder about implementing the ms sql (tds) protocol rather than relying on freetds for pgloader; thing is the mssql isn't high priority enough for me to justify doing that as of yet 2015-02-20T18:40:17Z _Loic_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T18:43:37Z yrk joined #lisp 2015-02-20T18:44:10Z yrk quit (Changing host) 2015-02-20T18:44:10Z yrk joined #lisp 2015-02-20T18:49:36Z fragamus joined #lisp 2015-02-20T18:50:25Z mordocai quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2015-02-20T18:50:54Z ehaliewicz joined #lisp 2015-02-20T18:50:57Z gko__ quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2015-02-20T18:52:47Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-20T18:53:13Z vdamewood joined #lisp 2015-02-20T18:53:36Z j0nii joined #lisp 2015-02-20T18:55:23Z j0nii quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T18:55:41Z j0nii joined #lisp 2015-02-20T18:56:22Z ethycol quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-02-20T18:57:53Z qub1tnerd quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-02-20T18:58:01Z ggole quit 2015-02-20T19:01:54Z beach left #lisp 2015-02-20T19:02:13Z oleo: http://paste.lisp.org/display/145843<- with sbcl-1.2.7 it was all fine now i get this 2015-02-20T19:06:29Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-02-20T19:07:33Z _death: maybe try to rm -rf ~/.cache/common-lisp and reload 2015-02-20T19:08:27Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2015-02-20T19:08:38Z gingerale joined #lisp 2015-02-20T19:12:20Z lispyone joined #lisp 2015-02-20T19:12:35Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2015-02-20T19:13:57Z Petit_Dejeuner_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-20T19:14:08Z radioninja joined #lisp 2015-02-20T19:18:03Z d4ryus__ is now known as d4ryus 2015-02-20T19:18:23Z oleo: _death: thank you for your response but i already started with an empty dir there..... 2015-02-20T19:21:52Z _death: oleo: well there's some funky code in closure-common's asd file to decide whether :rune-is-integer should be pushed to *features*, and exporting %want-strings-p is conditional on that feature.. you could try to understand it.. I'm using bleeding edge sbcl and not having problems 2015-02-20T19:24:14Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T19:24:19Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-02-20T19:24:30Z nell quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2-dev) 2015-02-20T19:25:31Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp 2015-02-20T19:27:05Z EvW joined #lisp 2015-02-20T19:27:21Z minion quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T19:27:21Z specbot quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T19:27:22Z easye quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-02-20T19:27:26Z oleo: aaah 2015-02-20T19:27:38Z oleo: well i already have pushed :rune-is-integer to *features* 2015-02-20T19:27:45Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2015-02-20T19:27:55Z oleo: and removed :rune-is-character from *features* too..... 2015-02-20T19:28:12Z oleo: prior to loading closure.... 2015-02-20T19:28:39Z minion joined #lisp 2015-02-20T19:28:39Z specbot joined #lisp 2015-02-20T19:28:51Z oleo: ok then i have to not push it to *features* just remove the other one.... 2015-02-20T19:28:52Z oleo: hmmm 2015-02-20T19:29:25Z mega1: is there a library for doing fast portable float vector I/O? 2015-02-20T19:30:03Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: you are not expected to understand this message) 2015-02-20T19:31:01Z edgar-rft joined #lisp 2015-02-20T19:31:48Z _death: mega1: didn't pkhuong have something.. xecto? 2015-02-20T19:32:50Z _death: mega1: (not portable :) 2015-02-20T19:33:20Z mega1: bah 2015-02-20T19:33:48Z edgar-rft quit (Client Quit) 2015-02-20T19:35:00Z lispyone quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T19:35:10Z zeitue joined #lisp 2015-02-20T19:35:13Z sol__ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-02-20T19:35:21Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-02-20T19:35:42Z lispyone joined #lisp 2015-02-20T19:37:04Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2015-02-20T19:39:52Z xrash quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-02-20T19:39:59Z mvilleneuve_ joined #lisp 2015-02-20T19:42:52Z serses quit (Remote host closed the connection) 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early-extensions.lisp 2015-02-20T20:58:31Z stokachu quit (Changing host) 2015-02-20T20:58:31Z stokachu joined #lisp 2015-02-20T20:59:14Z lispyone joined #lisp 2015-02-20T21:00:46Z csziacobus joined #lisp 2015-02-20T21:01:05Z sheilong quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2015-02-20T21:01:11Z ejbs: Xach: Thank you very much 2015-02-20T21:01:48Z rszeno joined #lisp 2015-02-20T21:04:52Z rhllor joined #lisp 2015-02-20T21:08:15Z theos quit (Disconnected by services) 2015-02-20T21:08:35Z radioninja joined #lisp 2015-02-20T21:08:44Z theos joined #lisp 2015-02-20T21:10:25Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: Ex-Chat) 2015-02-20T21:11:21Z edgar-rft joined #lisp 2015-02-20T21:22:26Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2015-02-20T21:23:08Z xach quit (Ping timeout: 182 seconds) 2015-02-20T21:23:25Z Kanae joined #lisp 2015-02-20T21:24:19Z resttime joined #lisp 2015-02-20T21:24:25Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-02-20T21:26:43Z ehu quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-02-20T21:28:37Z Beetny joined #lisp 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