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2015-01-30T00:03:13Z JokesOnYou77: What's the best way to get command line args in an image?
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2015-01-30T00:12:47Z Xach: JokesOnYou77: varies by implementation.
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2015-01-30T00:17:07Z nyef: Surely the "best" way is to use some portability library?
2015-01-30T00:17:31Z nyef: ... I know that there is one for making an "application", but the name escapes me.
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2015-01-30T00:23:18Z JokesOnYou77: Using lispworks.  Right now we use this function, but I was wondering if there's a more common practice: http://paste.lisp.org/display/145464
2015-01-30T00:23:53Z pillton: lisp-executable can do it for you.
2015-01-30T00:25:01Z Xach: JokesOnYou77: that's for processing argument/value pairs from the command line
2015-01-30T00:25:05Z Xach: JokesOnYou77: is that what you mean?
2015-01-30T00:27:34Z JokesOnYou77: Xach, Yes.  I'm looking at building an image and as I write my entry point function I'm reviewing what I have from work.
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2015-01-30T00:31:39Z pillton: Oh, lisp-executable has no support for LispWorks.
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2015-01-30T00:33:27Z JokesOnYou77: Oh, bummer.  I'll take a look in any case.  I borked my sbcl install somehow a while back so I'm just using a LW image I build at the office as the slime backend.
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2015-01-30T00:57:04Z Xach: JokesOnYou77: what you have there is fine.
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2015-01-30T02:47:49Z goglosh: Xach: thank you so much about skippy!
2015-01-30T02:48:09Z goglosh: s/about/for/
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2015-01-30T02:48:48Z Xach: no problem! are you using it in a cool way?
2015-01-30T02:51:35Z goglosh: I'm starting to use it but it was exactly what I googled for :P
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2015-01-30T02:53:04Z Xach: glad to hear it
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2015-01-30T02:53:19Z Xach: as it happens, i just made a minor update to it, the first since 2011
2015-01-30T02:53:32Z Xach: the example code did not work, and now it does
2015-01-30T02:55:16Z goglosh: lol
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2015-01-30T02:59:01Z goglosh: um why does it say unbound-varibale #:skippy?
2015-01-30T02:59:29Z Xach: What says that?
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2015-01-30T02:59:49Z goglosh: sbcl when I say (use-package #:skippy)
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2015-01-30T03:00:15Z Xach: goglosh: because use-package is a function and it evaluates its arguments. #:skippy is a symbol that is unbound.
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2015-01-30T03:00:37Z Xach: goglosh: you would have better results if you quote it, or use a self-evaluating thing like a string or keyword
2015-01-30T03:00:56Z goglosh: b-but it's right in your examples
2015-01-30T03:01:08Z goglosh: I copied that verbatim
2015-01-30T03:01:08Z Xach: Uh oh. Maybe time for a new release with better docs!
2015-01-30T03:01:26Z Xach: Indeed it is. Those are bad examples, sorry!
2015-01-30T03:02:01Z Xach: skippy is very old and nobody contacted me about those problems. :~(
2015-01-30T03:02:04Z goglosh: ehehe it's okay, so if I already used (ql:quickload "skippy") am I ready to use it?
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2015-01-30T03:03:45Z Xach: goglosh: if you don't use the skippy package, you must use package prefixes on its functions
2015-01-30T03:03:55Z Xach: use as in "use-package" or the ":use" option to defpackage
2015-01-30T03:04:37Z goglosh: dayum I've never put myself to learn about the packaging system
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2015-01-30T03:04:49Z drmeister: Does anyone know how SLIME deals with unbound variables when you display a stack frame in sldb?
2015-01-30T03:05:20Z drmeister: I'm having some kind of trouble with it.
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2015-01-30T03:16:54Z Xach: goglosh: the examples in the docs have been updated
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2015-01-30T03:21:19Z goglosh: awesome, thanks man
2015-01-30T03:21:23Z goglosh: have an internet
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2015-01-30T03:25:58Z goglosh: uh... so... sorry for the noobness, but I still don't get how to use the package...
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2015-01-30T03:26:29Z goglosh: oh nvm
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2015-01-30T03:29:53Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2015-01-30T03:30:40Z splittist: morning beach!
2015-01-30T03:31:34Z nyef: Hello beach.
2015-01-30T03:31:39Z drmeister: Hello beach
2015-01-30T03:31:54Z drmeister: I just sent you an email.
2015-01-30T03:32:05Z beach: I saw it.
2015-01-30T03:32:28Z beach: I'll try to answer your questions.
2015-01-30T03:32:54Z drmeister: Is the problem with the first instruction that the place that points to the first instruction isn't being updated?
2015-01-30T03:33:01Z beach: For the ENTER-INSTRUCTION, you might want to replace it with a subclass if it.
2015-01-30T03:33:22Z beach: That is why you should use change-class.
2015-01-30T03:33:44Z drmeister: I'm doing the "return a new class to replace it with thing".
2015-01-30T03:34:11Z beach: Hmm, yeah, that might not work with ENTER.
2015-01-30T03:34:30Z drmeister: I was actually thinking I was going to write a whole graph of instructions that converted the llvm arguments to variables.
2015-01-30T03:34:32Z beach: With enter, do CHANGE-CLASS and return the original.
2015-01-30T03:34:57Z drmeister: Why return the original?
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2015-01-30T03:35:09Z beach: CHANGE-CLASS preserves identity.
2015-01-30T03:35:13Z drmeister: Oh - I see, that's all I have.
2015-01-30T03:35:24Z drmeister: Right, preserves identity.
2015-01-30T03:36:15Z drmeister: So I don't want to insert any instructions above the enter-instruction?
2015-01-30T03:36:21Z drmeister: Can I insert instructions under it?
2015-01-30T03:36:42Z drmeister: Or am I going about this the wrong way?
2015-01-30T03:37:55Z beach: You should be able to insert instructions after the ENTER since it has a single successor.
2015-01-30T03:38:21Z beach: There should be a comment about it associated with INSERT-INSTRUCTION-AFTER
2015-01-30T03:38:24Z drmeister: Because the first thing that happens when you enter a function is you have the closed environment, nargs, regarg0, regarg1,...regarg4 and the rest are in the MultipleValues array.   I was thinking I would generate MIR to handle all that stuff.
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2015-01-30T03:38:39Z beach: Sure.
2015-01-30T03:40:14Z drmeister: Here's the new classes that I created and the SPECIALIZE method that I specialized on them.   It's trivially changing cleavir-ir:XXX classes to cleavir-llvm-ir:XXX classes.
2015-01-30T03:40:48Z drmeister: https://gist.github.com/drmeister/d353ae4497215de7a3ae
2015-01-30T03:41:26Z drmeister: My classes inherit from cleavir-ir:instruction and depending on what they are cleavir-ir:no-successors-mixin or cleavir-ir:one-successor-mixing yadda, yadda yadda.
2015-01-30T03:41:43Z drmeister: s/mixing/mixin/
2015-01-30T03:42:07Z beach: I don't see a problem with that.
2015-01-30T03:42:31Z beach: Why do you put closing parentheses by themselves on a line?
2015-01-30T03:43:09Z beach: Very unconventional.
2015-01-30T03:43:10Z drmeister: Because I'm crazy like that.
2015-01-30T03:43:44Z beach: And why do you sometimes have no blank line, sometime 1, sometimes more than 1?
2015-01-30T03:43:47Z drmeister: I was copying and pasting the make-instance... and it was easier to put the trailing parenthesis on a separate line the way I was editing them.  I'll move them up later.
2015-01-30T03:43:49Z JuanDaugherty groans
2015-01-30T03:44:17Z JuanDaugherty is a groan mang
2015-01-30T03:44:58Z drmeister: Oh dear - my parentheses are offending sensibilities.
2015-01-30T03:45:25Z drmeister: Don't worry, I'll fix it.
2015-01-30T03:46:00Z drmeister: Now CHANGE-CLASS - that retains slots that have the same name - so it's easier if I use that because I don't need to pass initializers - is that correct?
2015-01-30T03:46:44Z beach: What does it mean to "pass initializers"?
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2015-01-30T03:47:21Z drmeister: Note the beautifully placed parentheses:
2015-01-30T03:47:21Z drmeister: https://gist.github.com/drmeister/3a8fc92e205c966a1428
2015-01-30T03:47:24Z beach: And, yes, CHANGE-CLASS preserves those slots.
2015-01-30T03:47:38Z beach: Very nice.
2015-01-30T03:47:56Z drmeister: Thank you, I put my best people on it.
2015-01-30T03:48:13Z beach: I believe you.
2015-01-30T03:49:34Z pillton: drmeister: The best people as in me, myself and I?
2015-01-30T03:51:18Z beach: "ego" might be involved too.
2015-01-30T03:51:58Z Zhivago: The more ego, the better integrated.
2015-01-30T03:52:06Z drmeister: Well, I wasn't being quite truthful, my wife is my *best* people.  Lets say the best people I can convince to do anything.
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2015-01-30T03:52:24Z beach: Very diplomatic of you.
2015-01-30T03:52:29Z beach: I'll remember that one.
2015-01-30T03:53:41Z drmeister: I guess the question now is how far do I go with MIR and when do I start generating LLVM-IR?  Do you have any guidance?
2015-01-30T03:55:13Z beach: Not really.  I think soon-ish because the LLVM does a lot of stuff that I would do in MIR for other backends, like register allocation.
2015-01-30T03:55:40Z drmeister: That sounded like a better question in my head.   I think I should just generate MIR that's pretty close to LLVM-IR and then walk it again and generate LLVM-IR.
2015-01-30T03:56:19Z beach: Sounds right.
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2015-01-30T03:59:33Z drmeister: It looks like I need to create a class for every HIR instruction - is that necessary?  Or is it ok to just transform some of the instructions?
2015-01-30T04:00:49Z beach: At this point that is up to you.  Whatever you don't transform, you must be able to generate LLVM code from.
2015-01-30T04:01:05Z beach: I am guessing for instance that you don't need to change the assignment instruction.
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2015-01-30T04:05:21Z drmeister: You are probably right - I did though to begin with because I'm feeling things out.
2015-01-30T04:05:25Z drmeister: (mir-form 1)
2015-01-30T04:05:57Z drmeister: hir:  http://imgur.com/pss69GC
2015-01-30T04:06:11Z beach: Sure, at this point it is fine to experiment with it so that you can familiarize your self with the notation.
2015-01-30T04:06:35Z drmeister: mir: http://imgur.com/Ih4cfrg
2015-01-30T04:06:49Z drmeister: I realize it's a trivial example - I'm just figuring it out.
2015-01-30T04:06:59Z beach: Yes, of course.
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2015-01-30T04:08:11Z drmeister: Regarding the assignment statement.   It would be different if it's assigning a load-time-value (orange rectangle) to a register vs register to register.
2015-01-30T04:08:31Z drmeister: Wouldn't it?
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2015-01-30T04:10:08Z beach: Why?
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2015-01-30T04:11:15Z drmeister: Well, I pull values out of the load-time-value array in a different way than I would pull a value from an alloca
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2015-01-30T04:11:50Z beach: Yes, I see.
2015-01-30T04:12:16Z hhh: How do I suppress style-warnings in sbcl globally?
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2015-01-30T04:13:42Z drmeister: So I could either have a single assignment statement and generate different code based on its input/output or I can have multiple MIR assignment statements that are converted from the HIR statement based on the input/output and each one generates specific code.   That's the kind of "how far do I go with MIR before I generate LLVM-IR" question I was asking
2015-01-30T04:13:42Z drmeister: before.
2015-01-30T04:14:20Z beach: Indeed.  The same logic has to be there one way or the other.
2015-01-30T04:14:25Z viaken: How does one write prettier code?
2015-01-30T04:14:34Z viaken: Or, indeed, learn what "pretty" code is?
2015-01-30T04:15:05Z beach: drmeister: I would say, if you need to manipulate the graph somehow once the assignment has been specialized, do it in MIR.  If the graph is fixed, then do it at code generation.
2015-01-30T04:15:23Z JokesOnYou77: viaken, imho pretty code is code that is elegant in it's solutions and easily understood by a reader.  I'm a fan of: https://google-styleguide.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/lispguide.xml
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2015-01-30T04:15:33Z beach: viaken: Study other people's code.  Ask here which one is good and which one is bad.  Practice.
2015-01-30T04:16:05Z viaken: Anyone got any good code handy?
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2015-01-30T04:16:22Z drmeister whispers to viaken "Don't leave dangling parentheses"
2015-01-30T04:16:31Z JokesOnYou77: rofl
2015-01-30T04:16:32Z axion: any code surrounded by parens is pretty
2015-01-30T04:16:34Z beach: viaken: What kind of code are you interested in.
2015-01-30T04:16:35Z beach: ?
2015-01-30T04:17:06Z nyef: Don't just study pretty code, also study ugly code: There's a lot that can be learned from a good bad example.
2015-01-30T04:17:26Z beach: Good advice.
2015-01-30T04:17:28Z JokesOnYou77: In that case, I've got plenty of ugly code lol :P
2015-01-30T04:17:50Z viaken is producing his own ugly code, it feels like. :P
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2015-01-30T04:18:10Z beach: viaken: Submit it here and have people tell you what to change.
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2015-01-30T04:18:47Z beach: viaken: Your question doesn't have a short answer.  It's like asking "how does one write good literature?".
2015-01-30T04:18:56Z JokesOnYou77: I tend to think that writing good code comes not just from studying the form of code that is deemed to be good, but by following good coding principles.  Better code will arise from review, a lot like writing.
2015-01-30T04:19:01Z nyef: "How does one get to Carnegie Hall?"
2015-01-30T04:19:07Z JokesOnYou77: A Train?
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2015-01-30T04:21:39Z viaken: beach: That's fair.
2015-01-30T04:21:40Z JokesOnYou77: Also, this channel is probably (excluding myself) one of the highest concentrations of high quality coders I have ever seen so you can always put something up on http://paste.lisp.org/ and post it here
2015-01-30T04:21:55Z drmeister: Emacs will do most of the heavy lifting for indentation M-C-q.  If it doesn't produce pretty code then it's somebody else's fault.
2015-01-30T04:22:23Z JokesOnYou77: (I'm excluding myself because I lower that threshold btw) :P
2015-01-30T04:22:23Z viaken: drmeister: Well, yeah. The indentation and parens are fine. I more meant conceptually.
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2015-01-30T04:26:24Z beach: viaken: It is one of those expert skills that people say take 10000 hours to master (or alternatively 10 years; same order of magnitude).  We currently know of only one way to do it: practice + feedback in a closed loop.
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2015-01-30T04:34:40Z beach: drmeister: So, there is currently no big issue I have to work on?
2015-01-30T04:35:35Z drmeister: beach: I don't think so.   There's the custom declare I added - but other than that it's on me to generate some runnable code.
2015-01-30T04:36:13Z drmeister: You've done a tremendous amount already.  This is really a fantastic framework to work within.
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2015-01-30T04:36:24Z beach: Oh, thanks!
2015-01-30T04:36:55Z beach: I sure hope it works out.
2015-01-30T04:38:09Z beach: Maybe now I'll have more customers. :)
2015-01-30T04:38:10Z drmeister: I'm pretty sure it will.   I had some crashes when I ran some complicated forms through it but those are probably my problems.
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2015-01-30T04:39:32Z beach: OK.  Well, I am currently setting up (for the first time) and environment in which I can generate MIR conveniently.  Before, I stopped at HIR before transformations, because that's all I need for the extrinsic SICL environment.
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2015-01-30T04:39:56Z beach: So I should be able to do much more testing soon.
2015-01-30T04:40:00Z drmeister: That's what I've been working on all day.
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2015-01-30T04:40:48Z beach: I know.  I need to do it as well, so that we can synchronize more easily.
2015-01-30T04:41:17Z beach: Since I have first-class global environments, I should be able to set up environments that look more like yours if needed.
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2015-01-30T04:44:49Z JokesOnYou77: What exactly is this project?
2015-01-30T04:45:13Z drmeister: Is there more documentation on the instructions?  The assignment-instruction, does it take one input and one output?
2015-01-30T04:45:14Z beach: minion: Please tell JokesOnYou77 about Cleavir.
2015-01-30T04:45:14Z minion: JokesOnYou77: Cleavir: A project to create an implementation-independent compilation framework for Common Lisp. Currently Cleavir is part of SICL, but that might change in the future
2015-01-30T04:45:20Z beach: minion: Please tell JokesOnYou77 about SICL.
2015-01-30T04:45:20Z minion: JokesOnYou77: SICL: SICL is a (perhaps futile) attempt to re-implement Common Lisp from scratch, hopefully using improved programming and bootstrapping techniques. See https://github.com/robert-strandh/SICL
2015-01-30T04:45:35Z beach: drmeister: Yes, one input and one output.
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2015-01-30T04:46:19Z JokesOnYou77: Wow.  That's amazing.
2015-01-30T04:46:19Z drmeister: You said a while ago that the PDF on Cleavir was out of date  - is there any value in looking at it?
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2015-01-30T04:46:58Z JokesOnYou77: Sounds like and incredible project.
2015-01-30T04:47:12Z beach: drmeister: I think most stuff is still valid.  It is more the details that aren't.
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2015-01-30T04:47:20Z beach: JokesOnYou77: Thanks.
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2015-01-30T04:48:32Z drmeister: I'll go there first then.
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2015-01-30T04:48:56Z drmeister: There are a lot of nice docs in the code though.  (1) code (2) pdf.
2015-01-30T04:49:00Z drmeister: (3) bug you.
2015-01-30T04:49:05Z beach: drmeister: You can ask me what information is valid, and I'll try to respond by updating as I go.
2015-01-30T04:49:09Z viaken: Oh, neat. I just assumed all of this was Clasp-related.
2015-01-30T04:49:25Z drmeister: viaken: No, I'm piggybacking off of Cleavir/SICL
2015-01-30T04:49:32Z beach: drmeister: The comments should be more up to date, yes.
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2015-01-30T04:50:12Z drmeister: It's just an amazing coincidence that beach was writing a compiler front end about the time I realized my compiler front end was shite.
2015-01-30T04:50:27Z viaken: Neat!
2015-01-30T04:50:41Z drmeister thinks, well, it's good enough to bootstrap CLOS so I can run Cleavir.
2015-01-30T04:50:44Z viaken: I'm glad Lisp isn't completely dead. The parens call to me.
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2015-01-30T04:52:19Z drmeister: elegant weapons for a more ... civilized age
2015-01-30T04:53:44Z antonv: viaken: you are right, not completely
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2015-01-30T04:54:09Z viaken: drmeister: I would make a joke about 297 invalidating 303, but considering your project.
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2015-01-30T05:01:15Z beach: JokesOnYou77: There are 4 big chunks in a project like SICL: FORMAT, LOOP, CLOS, and the compiler.  The first 3 are basically done.  The compiler is well on the way.
2015-01-30T05:01:47Z beach: Then there is lots of small stuff of course.  That's basically done too.
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2015-01-30T05:08:34Z emaczen: with asdf, I have a top-level .asd file which defines modules (I want these modules to represent 4 separate systems and some may depend on each other)
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2015-01-30T05:08:59Z emaczen: In each module, I also have .asd files and package .lisp files which describe dependencies amongst files in that module's package
2015-01-30T05:09:00Z beach: emaczen: Sounds good.
2015-01-30T05:09:35Z emaczen: beach: The only thing I don't like is that I am repeating myself in the top-level .asd file and in each module-level .asd file.
2015-01-30T05:09:44Z beach: drmeister: Speaking of ASDF, I no longer use *central-registry*.
2015-01-30T05:10:01Z beach: emaczen: What information is repeated?
2015-01-30T05:10:02Z drmeister: Really? What do you use?
2015-01-30T05:10:20Z emaczen: beach: I think it will be easier to pastebin a few things
2015-01-30T05:10:27Z beach: drmeister: I read the new improved ASDF manual and I just put a link in some directory.  Hold on, I'll tell you which one...
2015-01-30T05:11:04Z drmeister: Ahah! You went and read the documentation - you are a brave, brave man.
2015-01-30T05:11:24Z |3b|: sounds like the top-level one should just depend on the others, assuming the others are useful on their own
2015-01-30T05:11:43Z emaczen: here is the link: http://pastebin.com/yBTrsyEb
2015-01-30T05:12:18Z beach: drmeister: Of course, now I can't find it.  I would have to read the doc again.
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2015-01-30T05:12:49Z emaczen: to me it would make sense to have just module dependencies at the top-level
2015-01-30T05:12:52Z beach: emaczen: Why not just make separate systems and use :depends-on in the top system.
2015-01-30T05:13:27Z emaczen: beach: So at the module-level, I can just forget about ":components"
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2015-01-30T05:13:53Z beach: emaczen: The top-level system would not have modules at all.
2015-01-30T05:14:13Z beach: emaczen: Just :depends-on (:system1 :system2 ...)
2015-01-30T05:14:38Z emaczen: beach: Yes! That is what I want -- I guess the word module tripped me up a little bit
2015-01-30T05:14:43Z drmeister: Oh the horror.   I set up the ~/.config/common-lisp/source-registry.conf.d/ directory and have files like 51_sicl.conf containing things like:   (:tree "/Users/meister/Development/clasp/src/lisp/kernel/contrib/sicl/Code")   in them.
2015-01-30T05:14:53Z beach: drmeister: I put links to top-level directories in ~/.local/share/common-lisp/source/
2015-01-30T05:15:29Z devon: Anyone know an easy way to make a binary stream from a character stream?
2015-01-30T05:15:51Z beach: devon: flexistreams might be able to do that.
2015-01-30T05:16:15Z beach: devon: Otherwise, you can probably do it yourself using Gray streams.
2015-01-30T05:16:31Z beach: drmeister: http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf/Configuring-ASDF-to-find-your-systems.html#Configuring-ASDF-to-find-your-systems
2015-01-30T05:16:53Z beach: drmeister: It doesn't say that symbolic links are OK, but I tried it and it works.
2015-01-30T05:16:58Z emaczen: beach: what is the difference between module and system then?
2015-01-30T05:17:38Z beach: emaczen: I am no ASDF expert, but they are all components at different levels.  A module is a level down from system.  Here, it looks like you just want separate systems.
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2015-01-30T05:18:10Z beach: emaczen: I use that method a lot because then I can reuse the (sub) systems in other contexts too.
2015-01-30T05:18:37Z emaczen: beach: You beat me to my next question.
2015-01-30T05:18:49Z emaczen: I think I know how that works already too.
2015-01-30T05:19:37Z beach: emaczen: Now, when I write a new SICL module, I just put the other SICL modules I need as systems being depended on, and it "just works".
2015-01-30T05:20:15Z beach: emaczen: So I end up having a fairly large number of separate systems that depend on other systems as I see fit.
2015-01-30T05:20:20Z emaczen: beach: glad to know that this a tried and tested approach :)
2015-01-30T05:21:00Z beach: emaczen: In SICL, I currently have 94 separate ASDF systems.
2015-01-30T05:21:46Z emaczen: beach: That's really cool!
2015-01-30T05:21:57Z emaczen: I'll be happy with like 5 for now haha
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2015-01-30T05:22:29Z emaczen: I'll have to try out SICL once I learn more of common lisp in general...
2015-01-30T05:22:43Z beach: Well, SICL is a big-ish chunk of code.  Some 150kLOC so far.
2015-01-30T05:23:13Z beach: emaczen: SICL can't be tried out at the moment, unless you are writing a compiler like drmeister does.
2015-01-30T05:23:40Z devon: Alas, flexi-stream takes a binary stream and gives you a character stream.  Guess I'll roll my own.
2015-01-30T05:23:51Z beach: devon: :(
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2015-01-30T05:32:15Z emaczen: beach: where do systems know where to find other systems -- at the top level I created folders for each original module.
2015-01-30T05:32:50Z emaczen: beach: I didn't find the scenario you described in the SICL repo
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2015-01-30T05:38:33Z emaczen: beach: I found some scenarios -- but it is not obvious to me how a system knows where to find another system -- i.e. how would sicl-compiler know where to find sicl-global-environment ?
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2015-01-30T05:39:41Z burtons: anybody home?
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2015-01-30T05:41:48Z burtons: a quick video i made using vecto: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BA97cCVypUE&feature=share
2015-01-30T05:43:04Z viaken waits for mpv
2015-01-30T05:43:31Z burtons: it's coming
2015-01-30T05:43:33Z burtons: eventually
2015-01-30T05:43:41Z viaken: This laptop is really slow.
2015-01-30T05:43:57Z viaken: Oh, that's pretty.
2015-01-30T05:44:10Z burtons: i'm making another one with a background
2015-01-30T05:44:17Z burtons: my laptop is pretty slow too, should be done tomorrow
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2015-01-30T05:53:52Z beach: emaczen: I put symbolic links in ~/.local/share/common-lisp/source/
2015-01-30T05:54:31Z beach: emaczen: For SICL, there is a single symbolic link in that directory, namely pointing to the top-level SICL directory.
2015-01-30T05:55:35Z beach: emaczen: That's enough for every system to find every other system.
2015-01-30T05:55:39Z emaczen: beach: I've done that before -- how does it find subsystems?
2015-01-30T05:55:59Z beach: I believe ASDF scans the entire directory for all .asd files at startup.
2015-01-30T05:56:03Z emaczen: beach: I'll try this
2015-01-30T05:56:28Z burtons: to get asdf to rescan your directory use (asdf:clear-source-registry)
2015-01-30T05:56:44Z emaczen: beach: right now I have opened slime in my top-level-directory
2015-01-30T05:57:31Z beach: emaczen: It shouldn't matter what the current SLIME directory is.
2015-01-30T05:58:19Z emaczen: beach: what about the source-registry.conf file?
2015-01-30T05:58:32Z beach: emaczen: I don't know about that.  I don't use it.
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2015-01-30T06:03:57Z emaczen: beach: can you say that again about your symlinks? I had to reboot emacs
2015-01-30T06:04:26Z beach: emaczen: I put symbolic links in ~/.local/share/common-lisp/source/
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2015-01-30T06:20:42Z emaczen: beach: I get an error that says "Too many levels of symbolic links"
2015-01-30T06:22:13Z emaczen: If I just create one symbolic link to the top-level .asd file, then the REPL tells me that i can't find my sub-systems
2015-01-30T06:22:29Z emaczen: Including symbolic links to my subsystems tells me "Too many levels of symbolic links"
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2015-01-30T06:23:06Z beach: I just put a symbolic link to the top-level directory.  Not to individual .asd files.
2015-01-30T06:23:23Z beach: An error message like that usually means a circular link.
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2015-01-30T06:26:58Z emaczen: beach: how do you do an entire directory?
2015-01-30T06:27:08Z emaczen: how do you symlink an entire directory*
2015-01-30T06:27:12Z beach: ln -s my-directory
2015-01-30T06:28:11Z beach: In my case ln -s ~/strandh/Lisp/My-projects/GIT-ified/SICL
2015-01-30T06:28:56Z emaczen: beach: I think I figured something out with the source-registry
2015-01-30T06:29:01Z beach: Ooops ln -s ~/Lisp/My-projects/GIT-ified/SICL
2015-01-30T06:29:19Z beach: ... not that it matters.
2015-01-30T06:29:19Z emaczen: However, why would ASDF tell me that "ASDF-USER" does not designate any package"
2015-01-30T06:29:40Z beach: I don't believe ASDF is telling you that.
2015-01-30T06:29:52Z beach: Did you do a (require :asdf)
2015-01-30T06:30:01Z beach: I do that in my .sbclrc file.
2015-01-30T06:30:14Z emaczen: In the repl I am doing (require :top-level)
2015-01-30T06:30:30Z emaczen: or (require :my-top-level-system)
2015-01-30T06:30:59Z beach: Did you (require :asdf) first?
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2015-01-30T06:33:37Z emaczen: beach: (cl:in-package #:asdf-user) -- I commented out those lines at the top of my .asd files in each subsystem
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2015-01-30T06:35:12Z beach: Why on earth did you do that?
2015-01-30T06:35:49Z beach: Did you (require :asdf) first?
2015-01-30T06:35:52Z emaczen: beach: Once I comment those lines out -- it works.
2015-01-30T06:35:59Z emaczen: I have at least isolated my problem
2015-01-30T06:36:15Z beach: You must have a very old version of ASDF.
2015-01-30T06:37:05Z beach: What Common Lisp system are you using?
2015-01-30T06:37:11Z emaczen: SBCL
2015-01-30T06:37:21Z beach: What version?
2015-01-30T06:37:44Z emaczen: 1.0.55
2015-01-30T06:38:03Z beach: Hmm.  I don't know what ASDF version was used then.  I use 1.2.5.
2015-01-30T06:38:05Z beach: And are you using Quicklisp?
2015-01-30T06:38:16Z emaczen: Yes
2015-01-30T06:38:24Z beach: I suggest you install a newer version of SBCL.
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2015-01-30T06:39:43Z beach: Perhaps the version of ASDF used in 1.0.55 didn't have the package ASDF-USER.  I know it is a recent invention.
2015-01-30T06:40:06Z emaczen: So the ASDF version matches?
2015-01-30T06:40:18Z emaczen: wait
2015-01-30T06:40:19Z beach: I wouldn't think so.
2015-01-30T06:40:39Z beach: But I know ASDF has evolved and that you need a new SBCL version to get a recent ASDF.
2015-01-30T06:40:44Z emaczen: what is the difference between ASDF1 and ASDF2 and is there a third?
2015-01-30T06:41:09Z beach: I don't remember.  I think so.
2015-01-30T06:41:49Z Bike: there is a third, yes
2015-01-30T06:41:54Z beach: My ASDF is 3.1.3.
2015-01-30T06:42:29Z emaczen: beach: You use SBCL 1.2.5 then?
2015-01-30T06:42:37Z beach: I do, yes.
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2015-01-30T06:42:44Z beach: Probably not the most recent.
2015-01-30T06:43:00Z emaczen: ahhh, you said ASDF 1.2.5 earlier -- that's why I was so confused
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2015-01-30T06:43:13Z beach: Oh, sorry.
2015-01-30T06:43:50Z beach: I meant "I don't know what ASDF version was used in SBCL 1.0.55.  I use SBCL 1.2.5.".
2015-01-30T06:44:01Z emaczen: ahh
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2015-01-30T06:45:12Z beach: emaczen: I need to go.  I'll leave you in the capable hands of other #lisp participants.
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2015-01-30T06:45:43Z emaczen: beach: Thank you so much for all the help!
2015-01-30T06:45:56Z emaczen: I'll eventually get this whole system set up :)
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2015-01-30T07:57:46Z akkad: can mocl build CL binaries?
2015-01-30T07:58:07Z akkad: command line cli bins
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2015-01-30T08:08:02Z akkad: must be a quicklisp issue with mocl
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2015-01-30T08:58:23Z ehaliewicz: hashlife is such a fascinating algorithm
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2015-01-30T09:14:52Z otwieracz: Hello.
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2015-01-30T09:18:32Z otwieracz: How about cl-autowrap and C++?
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2015-01-30T09:26:20Z akkad: can you specify to asdf where to look for asd files?
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2015-01-30T09:32:23Z akkad: this valid? (mapcar #'asdf:load-system '(:cl-store :cl-fad :cl-ppcre :gzip-stream :cl-json :fare-memoization :babel :salza2 :chipz :pcall :usocket :ironclad :flexi-streams ))
2015-01-30T09:32:23Z akkad:  
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2015-01-30T09:39:00Z cadadar: akkad: This page describes possibilities to configure ASDF, does that help? http://www.common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf/Configuring-ASDF-to-find-your-systems.html#Configuring-ASDF-to-find-your-systems
2015-01-30T09:39:50Z akkad: thanks. it's for mocl
2015-01-30T09:40:11Z cadadar: And I think your command might work, but why load all those systems manually? Usually you'd specify the dependencies of your own system and just load your system
2015-01-30T09:40:53Z cadadar: https://wukix.com/mocl ?
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2015-01-30T09:44:26Z akkad: yeah
2015-01-30T09:44:34Z akkad: since I can't quicklisp
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2015-01-30T09:49:34Z cadadar: You can't use QL for downloading the systems, but once you have them you can still use ASDF for loading them? At least that's my understanding of ASDF and QL
2015-01-30T09:51:40Z akkad: yeah.
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2015-01-30T09:52:38Z akkad: wow mezzano compiler in 500k source. and system/ directory, so all of CL more or less in 700k... and immensly pretty code
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2015-01-30T12:36:50Z pers: ogy
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2015-01-30T13:01:14Z Shinmera: Might as well throw this in here: I wrote a bash script to (even more) easily build and install SBCL from source http://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/85
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2015-01-30T13:27:03Z otwieracz: drmeister: ping!
2015-01-30T13:27:32Z otwieracz: drmeister: config-cache.jam: No such file or directory
2015-01-30T13:27:32Z otwieracz: /usr/share/boost-build/build-system.jam:696: in load
2015-01-30T13:27:32Z otwieracz: ERROR: rule "config-cache.load" unknown in module "build-system".
2015-01-30T13:27:39Z drmeister: poing
2015-01-30T13:27:51Z otwieracz: While building clasp
2015-01-30T13:27:59Z drmeister: What OS?
2015-01-30T13:28:54Z otwieracz: Linux, Gentoo
2015-01-30T13:29:07Z otwieracz: [I] sys-devel/clang (3.5.0-r100@28/01/15): C language family frontend for LLVM (meta-ebuild)
2015-01-30T13:29:13Z otwieracz: [I] sys-devel/gcc (4.8.3(4.8)@19/01/15): The GNU Compiler Collection
2015-01-30T13:30:12Z drmeister: Ok, jasom has built clasp on that system.
2015-01-30T13:30:54Z drmeister: Your error is an internal boost build error so there is something wrong in the big picture.
2015-01-30T13:31:00Z drmeister: Did you install externals-clasp and build it?
2015-01-30T13:31:20Z otwieracz: Yes.
2015-01-30T13:31:26Z drmeister: Did it build ok?
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2015-01-30T13:31:45Z otwieracz: Yes.
2015-01-30T13:31:47Z otwieracz: $ ls /home/otwieracz/.software/externals-clasp/build/
2015-01-30T13:31:47Z otwieracz: common  debug  release
2015-01-30T13:31:50Z otwieracz: There is it.
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2015-01-30T13:32:35Z drmeister: We should switch to the #clasp irc channel so we don't drive everyone else nuts.
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2015-01-30T13:33:01Z drmeister: Also, I'm going in to work in a few minutes and I have a few meetings.
2015-01-30T13:33:05Z drmeister: this morning.
2015-01-30T13:33:10Z nyef: G'morning all.
2015-01-30T13:33:14Z otwieracz: OK
2015-01-30T13:33:21Z otwieracz: I am also lacking time right now :)
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2015-01-30T14:13:08Z nnmap: Does Slime have a step-by-step debugger?
2015-01-30T14:13:58Z nyef: A "stepper"? It depends on your lisp implementation and debug settings.
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2015-01-30T14:15:49Z nnmap: I'm using SBCL. I'm reading "Paradigms of AI Programming" and there is some awful code I simply can't understand. I can use any debug settings.
2015-01-30T14:17:22Z Xach: which code?
2015-01-30T14:17:25Z nyef: In SBCL, you'll need to compile the code under (debug 3) in order to use the stepper.
2015-01-30T14:17:32Z nyef: But also, PAIP? Which code?
2015-01-30T14:19:29Z nnmap: It's about pipes. (defmacro make-pipe (head tail)   `(cons head          #'(lambda () ,tail))) I cannot understand the sieve algorithm.
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2015-01-30T14:20:15Z Xach: what chapter is that?
2015-01-30T14:20:34Z Xach: I want to look it up in http://norvig.com/paip/README.html
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2015-01-30T14:21:15Z nnmap: Chapter 9 and it seems it's not in the source on norvig's site, at least grep finds nothing.
2015-01-30T14:21:31Z ggole: nnmap: are you trying to understand the macro?
2015-01-30T14:21:36Z Xach: ok
2015-01-30T14:23:20Z Grue`: nnmap: have you tried slime's macroexpander (C-c C-m)?
2015-01-30T14:24:00Z nnmap: I understand the macro. I typing the code and will post it on pastebin if you want...
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2015-01-30T14:26:08Z nyef: ... What does FILTER do?
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2015-01-30T14:26:43Z Grue`: filter is not a standard CL function; from the name I'd guess it's something like REMOVE-IF-NOT
2015-01-30T14:27:39Z nyef: Oh, duh. The immediately preceding definition.
2015-01-30T14:28:21Z Grue`: damn, i confused nyef and nnmap; my vision is going to hell
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2015-01-30T14:30:41Z nyef: nnmap: The sieve algorithm is largely straightforward, the twisty bit is FILTER.
2015-01-30T14:31:47Z nyef closes his copy of PAIP.
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2015-01-30T14:35:01Z nnmap: okay so here it is: http://pastebin.com/dbLghJ6T (simplified by me)
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2015-01-30T14:35:51Z francogrex: Hi, I wanted to make a gui interface for some 'clients' to communicate with lisp, sort of they input an sql query statement and get back the results in a table format. I thought of tcl/tk and ltk library but it seems to make this sort of an interactive spreadsheet requires extending ltk package and some knowledge of tcl/tk... have you done something similar (a gui) before and in what way?
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2015-01-30T14:36:11Z shka: good day lispers!
2015-01-30T14:36:28Z nnmap: sieve make pipes and filter makes pipes and integers makes pipes and sieve calls filter and filter calls filter... and I'm like ftf. So I think my best bet is to run it through a debugger...
2015-01-30T14:37:08Z nyef: nnmap: That...  looks like it'd break in operation.
2015-01-30T14:37:25Z Grue`: francogrex: HTML? there are quite a few javascript libs to make tables sortable and stuff
2015-01-30T14:38:14Z francogrex: html as output no problem done before but that's not a two way inetarctive as tcl/tk would be
2015-01-30T14:39:29Z Grue`: it would be interactive if you were to run a web server like hunchentoot
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2015-01-30T14:40:20Z nyef: Hrm. Might not break for this use-case, but certainly seems fragile.
2015-01-30T14:40:46Z francogrex: Grue`: true
2015-01-30T14:41:04Z moore33: nnmap: What are you not getting?
2015-01-30T14:41:09Z Grue`: nnmap: think of pipe as a lazy sequence; (tail pipe) moves to the next element of the sequence
2015-01-30T14:41:11Z nnmap: nyef: that's probably because of my simplifications
2015-01-30T14:41:36Z nnmap: moore33: I'm not getting the control flow. What happens when.
2015-01-30T14:41:39Z Grue`: nnmap: filter makes a subsequence that only returns some elements of sequence
2015-01-30T14:41:57Z nnmap: Grue: I understand what each individual element does.
2015-01-30T14:42:12Z nnmap: I just don't get it as a whole.
2015-01-30T14:42:12Z nyef: nnmap: Compare (enumerate (integers 2) 10), (enumerate (filter #'oddp (integers 2) 10), and (enumerate (sieve (integers 2)) 10)
2015-01-30T14:42:14Z Grue`: do you know Sieve of Erathosphenes?
2015-01-30T14:42:15Z moore33: nnmap: There isn't much flow until you call enumerate.
2015-01-30T14:42:27Z Grue`: I probably spelt it wrong
2015-01-30T14:42:38Z nyef: Grue`: You definitely spelled it wrong.
2015-01-30T14:42:55Z nyef: (Actually, "it" is one of the words that you spelled correctly.)
2015-01-30T14:43:04Z Grue`: ok, Erathosthenes
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2015-01-30T14:45:54Z nnmap: OK, I guess I just don't have what it takes to be a Lisp programmer. I'll try my luck with a debugger, if it'll fail I'll just uninstall Lisp.
2015-01-30T14:46:09Z nnmap: thank you for your help.
2015-01-30T14:46:44Z Xach: paip is dense, but rewarding.
2015-01-30T14:47:03Z Grue`: nnmap: this is not a typical Lisp code, I'd say
2015-01-30T14:47:20Z wasamasa: nnmap: the idea is that you need less debugging with lisp code
2015-01-30T14:47:31Z moore33: nnmap: try tracing the tail function.
2015-01-30T14:49:25Z Grue`: I often use a classic debugging technique: a bunch of print statements
2015-01-30T14:50:50Z Xach: that's what most people in Coders at Work seemed to use, too.
2015-01-30T14:51:27Z francogrex: it's probably the easiest method to print
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2015-01-30T14:56:06Z nyef: "Debugger? I don't have enough working serial ports to run a debugger!"
2015-01-30T14:58:16Z loke_: Serial ports
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2015-01-30T14:59:00Z loke_: I want a proper TTY. There is something "real" about being connected to a computer using a terminal. Multitasking feels much more in-your-face :-). Or maybe I'm just old. :-)
2015-01-30T15:00:05Z nyef: loke_: By which you mean an ASR-33?
2015-01-30T15:00:27Z loke_: No. I mean the ADM-3a
2015-01-30T15:00:29Z nyef: Hot machine oil smell, huge roll of paper...
2015-01-30T15:00:47Z loke_: or possibly the VT220, or the Facit Twist
2015-01-30T15:01:09Z nyef: Oh. So, NOT a proper TTY.
2015-01-30T15:01:23Z loke_: Fair enough
2015-01-30T15:01:32Z loke_: I've never used a hardcopy tty
2015-01-30T15:01:55Z nyef: Good point, though, I wonder where the cable for my dumb terminal got to?
2015-01-30T15:02:26Z nyef: Still doesn't help me: One of the limits is working serial ports on the machine I'm trying to debug.
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2015-01-30T16:13:48Z nnmap: Hm, am I doing it right? (lisp step debugger, sbcl, slime): http://pastebin.com/pgFe6jQK
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2015-01-30T16:39:12Z pjb: nnmap: perhaps you have a type error on the cdr of pipes?  In anycase, it's bad practice to change the type of place.
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2015-01-30T16:40:06Z pjb: nnmap: you define a tail function, but not a head. Why the asymetry?
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2015-01-30T16:42:04Z moore33: pjb: head is car, but tail isn't cdr.
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2015-01-30T16:42:13Z pjb: Then define it!
2015-01-30T16:42:21Z pjb: (defun head (x) (car x))!!!!
2015-01-30T16:42:23Z moore33: That seems pointles.
2015-01-30T16:42:26Z nnmap: pjb: it's from "Paradigms of AI Programming". I couldn't understand this code and simplified it considerably. I then tried to run it in a debugger, but wasn't enlightened (too many anonymous functions).
2015-01-30T16:42:27Z moore33: pointless.
2015-01-30T16:42:27Z pjb: It is not.
2015-01-30T16:42:36Z moore33: Yes it is.
2015-01-30T16:42:42Z pjb: No, it is not.
2015-01-30T16:42:46Z moore33: :)
2015-01-30T16:42:49Z pjb: Otherwise go program in binary!
2015-01-30T16:43:27Z nnmap: Implementing 'head' just means I have to keep one more thing in mind. It's not a "production code".
2015-01-30T16:43:32Z pjb: nnmap: what's called "pipe" here is a lazy stream of numbers.
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2015-01-30T16:43:44Z pjb: nnmap: no, it means you have one LESS thing to keep in mind!
2015-01-30T16:44:05Z pjb: You should not keep in mind the fact that pipes are implemented with cons cells.
2015-01-30T16:44:09Z ehu: nnmap: why does the implementation of HEAD matter?
2015-01-30T16:44:32Z moore33: Since the objective is to educate, it is completely redundant to define something else that behaves exactly like car... for a list, no less!
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2015-01-30T16:45:39Z ehu: moore33: since the objective is to learn to abstract from the implementation details, I'm convinced of the opposite.
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2015-01-30T16:46:23Z ehu: the compiler is completely capable of handling this trivial definition. our minds much less so.
2015-01-30T16:46:35Z moore33: ehu: I'm not sure I can agree with that; Norvig is showing how to implement a lazy list, not abstract away from it.
2015-01-30T16:47:00Z Shinmera: ... an implementation is an abstraction
2015-01-30T16:47:27Z nnmap: Funny, but I've already read about 'pipes' before, eons ago. The author of "Higher Order Perl" used this technique (he called them "promises"), and back then I thought "Meh, that's probably some Lisp thing. Don't know how it works... whatever". And now, indeed, I've learned that it's some Lisp thing and I still don't know how it works :)))
2015-01-30T16:47:52Z nyef: nnmap: Worse: modern Javascript tends to use "promise" objects a lot.
2015-01-30T16:47:52Z ehu: moore33: he's implementing a lazy list, but that's a concept not available in lisp by default.
2015-01-30T16:47:53Z ehu: so,
2015-01-30T16:48:13Z pjb: nnmap: actually, here pipes implement two things: pairs, and promises on the cdr.  This could be considered a bad thing.
2015-01-30T16:48:22Z pjb: (cf. my first comment).
2015-01-30T16:49:27Z pjb: Notably, try this: (let ((p  (make-pipe 1 2))) (list (head p) (tail p) (tail p)))
2015-01-30T16:50:10Z moore33: pjb: Right, "tail" does not mean "cdr".
2015-01-30T16:50:20Z moore33: Here.
2015-01-30T16:50:25Z JokesOnYou77: ARe these promises the same kind of thing they are in JS?
2015-01-30T16:50:35Z pjb: moore33: my argument is that this pipe abstraction is bad.
2015-01-30T16:51:08Z moore33: pjb: Oh, well that might be.
2015-01-30T16:51:17Z nnmap: The main problem (for me) is that 'sieve' makes pipe which should call 'filter', and 'filter' makes pipe which should call 'filter', and I can't figure out what calls what and when. Do you guys find it easy (honest question)?
2015-01-30T16:51:40Z moore33: nnmap: It's kind of hairy.
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2015-01-30T16:52:10Z pjb: You should use the abstraction.  Don't bother with the details.  Once you've understood the abstraction it should be all you need.
2015-01-30T16:52:30Z pjb: You cannot be solving the string theory equations all the time.
2015-01-30T16:53:03Z moore33: pjb: If the abstraction is bad, as you say, then all that is left is to learn the implementation details.
2015-01-30T16:53:19Z pjb: Otherwise, you can draw diagrams.
2015-01-30T16:53:37Z jrm: I'm trying to add information to a bug report.  Someone has asked me to test something by running (swank:create-server).  When I start up sbcl and run that I get http://ftfl.ca/paste/swank.html.
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2015-01-30T16:53:52Z moore33: nnmap: But this kind of lazy structure is kind of a touchstone for people who have worked with Lisp for a long time, know Scheme, read SICP, etc.
2015-01-30T16:54:51Z _death: jrm: (ql:quickload "swank") first?
2015-01-30T16:55:05Z _death: assuming you have quicklisp...
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2015-01-30T16:55:51Z jrm: _death: Ah.  Thanks.  I've very new to this. :)
2015-01-30T16:56:39Z _death: may also want to pass :dont-close t
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2015-01-30T16:57:18Z Ralt: this is in my .stumpwmrc:
2015-01-30T16:57:22Z Ralt:   (swank:create-server :port 4005
2015-01-30T16:57:22Z Ralt:                        :style swank:*communication-style*
2015-01-30T16:57:23Z Ralt:                        :dont-close t)
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2015-01-30T16:58:16Z jrm: Ralt: Thanks.  This actually is for a  StumpWM bug report: https://github.com/stumpwm/stumpwm/issues/183
2015-01-30T16:58:18Z moore33: nnmap: The fact that make-pipe is a macro makes this code more opaque than it needs to be.
2015-01-30T16:59:08Z Ralt: jrm: oh. I've had this line for months in my stumpwmrc with no issue :/
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2015-01-30T17:00:01Z jrm: It might be a problem specific to FreeBSD.  I have this problem for a very long time.
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2015-01-30T17:01:18Z Ralt: oh.
2015-01-30T17:02:07Z Ralt: jrm: this is what I actually have
2015-01-30T17:02:11Z Ralt: (ql:quickload 'swank)
2015-01-30T17:02:11Z Ralt: (swank-loader:init)
2015-01-30T17:02:11Z Ralt: (defcommand swank () ()
2015-01-30T17:02:13Z Ralt:   (setf stumpwm:*top-level-error-action* :break)
2015-01-30T17:02:15Z Ralt:   (swank:create-server :port 4005
2015-01-30T17:02:17Z Ralt:                        :style swank:*communication-style*
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2015-01-30T17:02:20Z Ralt:                        :dont-close t))
2015-01-30T17:02:24Z Ralt: (swank)
2015-01-30T17:02:29Z Ralt: a copy paste from I don't know where.
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2015-01-30T17:03:44Z Ralt: maybe the swank-loader:init changes something...
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2015-01-30T17:04:38Z jrm: When installing sbcl/quicklisp/stumpwm you don't have to do anything specific to get this setup other than (ql:quickload "quicklisp-slime-helper"), right?  That is, I don't have to anything like (ql:quickload "swank") beforehand?
2015-01-30T17:04:39Z jrm:  
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2015-01-30T17:05:12Z Ralt: look at what I copy pasted, read the 1st line :P
2015-01-30T17:05:39Z Ralt: jrm: just look at this file: https://github.com/Ralt/.dotfiles/blob/master/stumpwmrc
2015-01-30T17:06:33Z jrm: oops, sorry missed that
2015-01-30T17:07:25Z jrm: ty Ralt.  I'll try this.
2015-01-30T17:08:31Z pjb: -
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2015-01-30T17:14:54Z nnmap: hmmm... interesting, it seems that the call to 'filter' in if-true branch of 'filter' is bogus, that is, the program works when I remove it... (if (funcall pred (car pipe)) (TRUE: make-pipe (car pipe) (tail pipe)) (FALSE: filter pred (tail pipe)))... that expains quite a lot... i guess.
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2015-01-30T17:16:12Z dlowe: nnmap: it looks like you're reinventing SERIES?
2015-01-30T17:16:53Z nnmap: dlowe: I'm reading "Paradigms of AI Programming"... and I have a lot of difficulties with this 'pipes'  stuff.
2015-01-30T17:17:12Z dlowe: ohhh, I didn't realize you were doing PAIP. Never mind.
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2015-01-30T17:21:06Z beach: Good evening everyone!
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2015-01-30T17:22:18Z nyef: Hello beach.
2015-01-30T17:23:42Z beach: nyef: So are you again working on NQ-CLIM?
2015-01-30T17:24:11Z nyef: Not yet, unfortunately.
2015-01-30T17:24:34Z nyef: Trying to get some loose ends tied down on this other thing first.
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2015-01-30T17:28:20Z beach: No rush, I guess.
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2015-01-30T17:33:28Z drmeister: Hey beach:  I've decided there are minimal changes I need to make to the HIR .  I'll expand the enter-instruction to get closer to LLVM-IR to start and see where that takes me.
2015-01-30T17:34:00Z beach: drmeister: OK.  Let me know how it goes.
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2015-01-30T17:43:32Z beach: Dinner!  I might be back later.
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2015-01-30T17:47:12Z viaken: I'm currently reading some input with (read-line). However, I'd like to be able to handle an EOF. Should I be using a different input method, or should I just CONDITION-CASE it?
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2015-01-30T17:53:53Z pjb: viaken: you can handle EOF either by passing the eof-error-p and eof-value parameter to read-line, or by handler-case it. There's no condition-case in Common Lisp.  If your question is about emacs lisp, see #emacs.
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2015-01-30T17:54:16Z H4ns: clhs read-line
2015-01-30T17:54:17Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_rd_lin.htm
2015-01-30T17:54:27Z pjb: (but emacs symbols names are lowercase, so it would be condition-case, not CONDITION-CASE anyways).
2015-01-30T17:54:28Z H4ns: viaken: you should just read the documentation for starters :)
2015-01-30T17:54:36Z pjb: (incf H4ns)
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2015-01-30T17:54:39Z viaken: That's probably a good idea.
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2015-01-30T17:55:44Z viaken: pjb: Using CL, but all my searches tend to end up on elisp whether I want them to or not.
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2015-01-30T17:56:07Z pjb: add common lisp to your google search keywords.
2015-01-30T17:56:15Z pjb: Or just jump into the CLHS first.
2015-01-30T17:57:07Z viaken nods
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2015-01-30T18:18:19Z jrm: Ralt: FYI: same problem.  Just got a crash.
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2015-01-30T18:33:09Z dlowe: clhs handler-case
2015-01-30T18:33:09Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_hand_1.htm
2015-01-30T18:33:33Z dlowe: That's the CL equivalent. Note that it isn't nearly as powerful as handler-bind, though
2015-01-30T18:34:54Z Ryan_Burnside: Hello all, just wondering something about the CLOS. I know it resolves the diamond inheritance problem but what if the final class doesn't inherit a method to close a resource such as a stream?
2015-01-30T18:35:30Z nyef: Ryan_Burnside: ... Then there is a bug in your program?
2015-01-30T18:35:31Z Bicyclidine: Then... that's something to fix?
2015-01-30T18:37:12Z Ryan_Burnside: So it is very possible that parent classes A and B both have functions with the same name to close two different streams, class C the child of them can't inherit both right?
2015-01-30T18:37:50Z shka: Ryan_Burnside: uh, but methods do not belong to classes
2015-01-30T18:38:11Z shka: you are refering to slots merging?
2015-01-30T18:38:14Z shka: right?
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2015-01-30T18:38:36Z shka: you have slot with same name in two classes that are getting merged?
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2015-01-30T18:39:14Z Ryan_Burnside: I don't I've been toiling in C++ and wondered how such a problem was resolved in Common Lisp.
2015-01-30T18:39:15Z Bicyclidine: the situation would appear to be (defmethod close ((obj A)) ...) (defmethod close ((obj B)) ...) (defclass C (A B) ()), C could inherit one slot from each, which the methods close
2015-01-30T18:39:20Z Ryan_Burnside: More of a "how does it work" question.
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2015-01-30T18:40:28Z beach: Ryan_Burnside: Nobody would give the same name to those different functions.
2015-01-30T18:41:03Z Bicyclidine: that's the first thing that comes to mind, yeah. is this a C++ destructor? CL ain't got those
2015-01-30T18:41:18Z beach: Ryan_Burnside: Either A and B are part of the same system and the author would not use the same name, or else they are in different systems, so the names would be in different packages.
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2015-01-30T18:43:59Z pjb: shka: the question is more of a question whether the close methods do call (when (next-method-p) (call-next-method)) or not.   If they don't, then indeed, the first applicable method will also be the last.
2015-01-30T18:44:17Z pjb: But then, even if you add a method for C, there will be a bug.
2015-01-30T18:44:28Z shka: i see
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2015-01-30T18:45:11Z shka: Ryan_Burnside: well i would say that what after method seems to be a good idea for closing streams
2015-01-30T18:45:44Z pjb: When you define your generic function, you may implement a default method, and specify in its :documentation, that all methods should (call-next-method).
2015-01-30T18:46:03Z Ryan_Burnside: I suppose that would be best.
2015-01-30T18:46:07Z dlowe: you may also use a non-standard method combinator, which will automatically all of the methods
2015-01-30T18:46:12Z dlowe: *call
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2015-01-30T18:46:47Z Bicyclidine: a destructor using call-next-method is pretty normal even outside of C++, i think. constructors use super all the time i think
2015-01-30T18:46:51Z dlowe: (defgeneric close (object) (:method-combinator :progn))
2015-01-30T18:47:11Z dlowe: could be O:method-combination
2015-01-30T18:47:22Z dlowe: it's been hours since I last wrote a defgeneric form
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2015-01-30T18:49:15Z Ryan_Burnside: Perhaps I should purchase The Art of the Metaobject Protocol?
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2015-01-30T18:49:45Z shka: Ryan_Burnside: it is great book but it makes my brain burning
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2015-01-30T18:49:54Z shka: very advanced stuff there
2015-01-30T18:50:15Z Bicyclidine: it's a nice book but probably a bit much if you don't have an actual thing you want to fix
2015-01-30T18:50:23Z Ryan_Burnside: I'm about average intelligence most Lispers are a point or two above average for sure.
2015-01-30T18:50:39Z shka: however, method-combinator is described in other book
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2015-01-30T18:51:14Z shka: object oriented programming with common lisp object system
2015-01-30T18:51:21Z shka: it is old but rather good
2015-01-30T18:51:30Z Ryan_Burnside: Is that the teal and purple one?
2015-01-30T18:51:34Z nyef: shka: The Keene book?
2015-01-30T18:51:40Z shka: nyef: yes
2015-01-30T18:51:45Z dlowe: or, you know
2015-01-30T18:51:49Z dlowe: clhs 7.6.6
2015-01-30T18:51:49Z specbot: Method Selection and Combination: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/07_ff.htm
2015-01-30T18:52:23Z shka: yeah
2015-01-30T18:52:46Z shka: but Keenes book really explains basic concepts of clos
2015-01-30T18:52:54Z shka: and even some of less basics
2015-01-30T18:53:09Z shka: at least i recommend it as any introduction
2015-01-30T18:53:12Z Ryan_Burnside: Looks fairly cheap, I can afford it. :)
2015-01-30T18:53:26Z shka: it is a bit dated
2015-01-30T18:53:34Z shka: 1989
2015-01-30T18:53:38Z H4ns: so?
2015-01-30T18:53:39Z shka: so almost as old as me :P
2015-01-30T18:53:46Z H4ns: as is common lisp.
2015-01-30T18:53:46Z _death: get AMOP as well :)
2015-01-30T18:53:51Z shka: but otherwise excelent
2015-01-30T18:54:07Z Ryan_Burnside: So any show stoppers like deprecated syntax?
2015-01-30T18:54:13Z _death: Ryan_Burnside: no
2015-01-30T18:54:42Z H4ns: kids, common lisp is 25 years old, and anything that has been written about common lisp when it was created is as true as it was back then as it is now.
2015-01-30T18:54:49Z _death: maybe there was one example using an operator that has since changed its name
2015-01-30T18:54:54Z Ryan_Burnside: I heard some of the CL books were written when the syntax was still a bit up in the air. The one by Steele perhaps.
2015-01-30T18:55:00Z vanila: i wantto use a C library but some constants and functions are defined by #define - can CFFI do it?
2015-01-30T18:55:05Z vanila: how would you interface to that
2015-01-30T18:55:20Z Bicyclidine: Ryan_Burnside: cltl2 predates some of the semantics but not by much.
2015-01-30T18:55:27Z Bicyclidine: vanila: cffi has a "grovel" thing for that i think
2015-01-30T18:55:43Z Bicyclidine: Ryan_Burnside: and amop, for example, predates standard setf functions, but it's a pretty minor thing; don't sweat it
2015-01-30T18:55:47Z _death: vanila: check out https://github.com/rpav/cl-autowrap
2015-01-30T18:55:53Z vanila: thanks
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2015-01-30T18:56:50Z Ryan_Burnside: Bicyclidine: Would that just be setq then?
2015-01-30T18:57:06Z Bicyclidine: huh?
2015-01-30T18:57:19Z Bicyclidine: setf functions, like functions named (setf foo)
2015-01-30T18:57:35Z shka: Ryan_Burnside: i did not notice any setq in the book if you are worried by that
2015-01-30T18:57:51Z Bicyclidine: (clos uses them for writer methods)
2015-01-30T18:57:54Z Ryan_Burnside: Bicyclidine: I just thought setq was the precursor to setf.
2015-01-30T18:58:02Z shka: not quite
2015-01-30T18:58:08Z Bicyclidine: no, it has setf, just not this particular part of setf
2015-01-30T18:58:14Z Bicyclidine: minor, see?
2015-01-30T18:58:15Z _death: setf can expand to setq
2015-01-30T18:58:41Z shka: you can think about setf as a more general variant of setq
2015-01-30T18:59:13Z shka: so it is a bit missleading
2015-01-30T18:59:26Z pjb: H4ns: I beg to differ.  Most of the criticism about CL that was written 25 years ago, is caducuous nowadays.
2015-01-30T18:59:51Z shka: pjb: and parenthesis
2015-01-30T18:59:55Z shka: ;-)
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2015-01-30T19:02:06Z shka: Ryan_Burnside: anyway, grab the book, you will like it
2015-01-30T19:02:32Z shka: and amop is awesome, if you have brain to understand it
2015-01-30T19:02:39Z shka dosen't
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2015-01-30T19:03:56Z Ryan_Burnside: I'll check it out. Thanks all for the insight.
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2015-01-30T20:07:10Z akkad: is this proper? (mapcar #'asdf:load-system '(:cl-store :cl-fad :cl-ppcre :gzip-stream :cl-json :fare-memoization :babel :salza2 :chipz :pcall :usocket :ironclad :flexi-streams))
2015-01-30T20:07:13Z akkad:  
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2015-01-30T20:07:40Z H4ns: akkad: why don't you write an asdf file with those as a dependency?
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2015-01-30T20:08:37Z Fade: also, see quickproject in quicklisp.
2015-01-30T20:09:04Z Fade: http://www.xach.com/lisp/quickproject/
2015-01-30T20:09:31Z akkad: using mocl, so quicklisp no worky
2015-01-30T20:09:44Z Fade: does asdf work on mocl?
2015-01-30T20:09:47Z akkad: yes
2015-01-30T20:10:05Z akkad: symlink of every asd in ~/quicklisp -> ~/mocl/system/
2015-01-30T20:10:16Z Fade: well, that's the proper means to handle dependencies.
2015-01-30T20:10:42Z akkad: cl-store.asd is there, and loaded, but fails to see it at compile time
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2015-01-30T20:11:22Z Fade: in the context of mocl or a mobile environment, I don't know how to configure asdf.
2015-01-30T20:11:33Z akkad: well this is for osx proper. cli app.
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2015-01-30T20:11:55Z Fade: I typically tell it where to find my personal systems in ~/.config/common-lisp/source-registry.conf.d/
2015-01-30T20:12:02Z akkad: ahh
2015-01-30T20:12:34Z Fade: where I have a file called source.conf
2015-01-30T20:12:45Z akkad: ok, not that  familiar with asdf
2015-01-30T20:12:52Z Fade: containing just this: (:tree "/home/fade/SourceCode/lisp/")
2015-01-30T20:13:12Z Fade: which causes asdf to look in that directory and all of its subdirectories for .asd files.
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2015-01-30T20:24:46Z akkad: nice, thanks for the tip
2015-01-30T20:25:04Z akkad hugs xach for ql. 
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2015-01-30T20:29:43Z Xach: ok!
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2015-01-30T20:36:11Z Vivitron`:  connect tf2.mizx.me; password jackie
2015-01-30T20:36:31Z Vivitron`: sorry for the noise, paste error
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2015-01-30T20:36:53Z nyef: ... also, your password needs changing? (-:
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2015-01-30T20:39:29Z Xach: Hmm, is there a way to go from a string like "sb-ext:save-lisp-and-die" to an anchor in the sbcl html manual easily?
2015-01-30T20:40:01Z Xach: I had a cheesy regexp scraper that worked years ago but the new manual confounds it, and I don't see a simple index like before.
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2015-01-30T20:42:57Z foom: Appendix B Function Index?
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2015-01-30T20:45:11Z Xach: foom: that seems garbled, and doesn't include package prefixes either.
2015-01-30T20:45:27Z Xach: I guess I could work with a running image to match things up.
2015-01-30T20:46:22Z foom: it does appear garbled
2015-01-30T20:46:35Z foom: e.g., including "(setf:"
2015-01-30T20:46:46Z Xach: maybe that's the extent of the garblity
2015-01-30T20:46:46Z foom: presumably there's a bug in the doc-generator that needs fixing
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2015-01-30T20:52:20Z Xach: Hmm, I could probably scrape it directly out rather than trying to process the appendix.
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2015-01-30T21:02:38Z foom: why doesn't it have packages, and why does it have an extraneous : at the end of every symbol in the appendix.
2015-01-30T21:02:49Z foom: those both seem like possible errors
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2015-01-30T21:08:03Z Xach: Scraping out the <dt>s worked fine for now. l1sp.org/sbcl/sb-ext:save-lisp-and-die is unbroken.
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2015-01-30T21:24:27Z Ralt: hmmm
2015-01-30T21:24:51Z Ralt: does anyone have an example of a macro doing a loop over a list and generating some code for each item?
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2015-01-30T21:25:59Z Bicyclidine: (defmacro printer (symbols) `(progn ,@(loop for s in symbols collect `(print ',s)))). (printer a b c) expands to (progn (print 'a) (print 'b) (print 'c)). like that?
2015-01-30T21:26:19Z oGMo: Ralt: a macro that writes some functions given their names? pretty much any macro you specify a sequence in some regard
2015-01-30T21:26:20Z Ralt: awesome! thanks
2015-01-30T21:26:28Z Bicyclidine: &rest symbols, sorry
2015-01-30T21:26:37Z oGMo: or that
2015-01-30T21:26:45Z Ralt: :-)
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2015-01-30T21:35:18Z fe[nl]ix: foom: do you plan to come to the ELS ?
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2015-01-30T21:50:45Z nydel: i'm building a shared REPL server that accepts multiple users to connect and write in one space. unfortunately, i can't get CL to turn off local echo on the client end terminal when requesting the user's password.. what might be a good way to deal with this?
2015-01-30T21:51:27Z H4ns: nydel: you'll need to use telnet options for that.
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2015-01-30T21:51:50Z H4ns: nydel: the best way to do it is to use your system's terminal driver which does the telnet option processing for you.
2015-01-30T21:52:01Z H4ns: nydel: the answer has not changed since you last asked.
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2015-01-30T21:53:01Z nydel: H4ns: i mean to ask differently. i'm thinking in terms of accepting that i can't control echo on the remote terminal. as in perhaps having the user encrypt their password in a local config file.. or something, i'm not sure.
2015-01-30T21:53:34Z nydel: doing it with telnet spec is a huge job as far as i can tell
2015-01-30T21:54:12Z nydel: (and i don't need to mute echo locally ever again outside this one API call)
2015-01-30T21:54:20Z Xach: I really wanted to make a full-featured telnet system for CL some time ago, but other projects are now way ahead of it.
2015-01-30T21:54:21Z foom: fe[nl]ix: I have not made any plans to attend. I'm pretty sure cracauer is planning to. I hope dougk would too, but I don't know one way or the other on that.
2015-01-30T21:54:42Z Zhivago: It's not particulary hard -- the hard bit with telnet is getting a login prompt.
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2015-01-30T21:55:28Z Zhivago: Since most telnetds are broken in random ways for ht.
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2015-01-30T21:55:47Z nydel: Zhivago: not sure why that'd be hard? oh do you mean like forcing "login:" then reading on the same line
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2015-01-30T21:55:55Z nydel: because that is hard.
2015-01-30T21:56:08Z H4ns: erm.  hard?
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2015-01-30T21:56:13Z foom: disabling local echo via a telnet control sequence is quite trivial.
2015-01-30T21:56:19Z nydel: H4ns: i'd love to be wrong...?
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2015-01-30T21:57:11Z H4ns: nydel: what exactly is hard about printing a prompt?
2015-01-30T21:57:15Z nydel: foom: it looks that way to me in the telnet spec/rfc but i can't translate it to common lisp.. do you happen to know of any packages or reading material that might help point me at something?
2015-01-30T21:57:26Z Zhivago: I mean getting the telnetd to decide that you're ready to log in.
2015-01-30T21:57:32Z foom: not really, no.
2015-01-30T21:57:57Z H4ns: nydel: but then, if you rely on telnet in line mode, the user experience of your service will be quite limited anyway.
2015-01-30T21:58:23Z H4ns: nydel: (i.e. no line editing, no history etc)
2015-01-30T21:58:39Z foom: you do get line editing -- just like you get in e.g. "cat"
2015-01-30T21:59:16Z H4ns: foom: i think most people would agree nowadays that "line editing" means more than being able to delete the last character/word/line typed
2015-01-30T21:59:33Z foom: (I never understood why the builtin line editor wasn't a bit more functional)
2015-01-30T21:59:42Z H4ns: foom: pdp11
2015-01-30T22:00:16Z foom: sure, but linux could have a better line editor; I don't think there's anything fundamental to the interface requiring that it be useless.
2015-01-30T22:00:43Z H4ns: nydel: i'd write a little, trivial front end that runs on your server and use a proper line editor (like rlwrap or the native cl thing).
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2015-01-30T22:02:34Z nydel: i wrote all that into the API so you can do like history :justmep t :nlines 20 then they are numbered and you can do history :exec t :nlines 1 :startline 13 :replace t :sed s/typpo-in-function/typo-in-function/g
2015-01-30T22:02:43Z foom: If you start that, next thing you know, you'll get into terminal type negotiation, colorizing the output, terminal commands to switch into utf8 mode, movement commands, windowing, workarounds for bugs in various crappy terminal emulators (e.g. gnome-terminal piece of crap), and all that fun stuff. :)
2015-01-30T22:02:51Z nydel: clunky but it works out because other users need access to history from all players
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2015-01-30T22:04:23Z nydel: H4ns: i'm only using telnet to connect momentarily. because i'm doing the server first. so maybe the fact that eventually the server will only accept connections from the client program will help with these issues, maybe i can deal with it inside the client i mean.
2015-01-30T22:05:04Z Ralt: hmf
2015-01-30T22:05:10Z Ralt: dynamic scoping doesn't work with funcall...
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2015-01-30T22:05:41Z Zhivago: ralt: You are confused.
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2015-01-30T22:06:28Z Ralt: Zhivago: I have a (defvar *foo* "bar"). If I use (let ((*foo* "baz")) (funcall #'test)), in test, *foo* will be "bar"
2015-01-30T22:06:40Z Ralt: no?
2015-01-30T22:07:50Z Ralt: no...
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2015-01-30T22:08:27Z oGMo: no, because that's the point
2015-01-30T22:09:43Z oleo: hahahah
2015-01-30T22:09:55Z Ralt: damn...
2015-01-30T22:10:28Z oleo: the let environment is a distinct one from the global, everything you assign there will be the value you provided, shadowing the global ones....
2015-01-30T22:10:33Z oleo: unless you close it....
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2015-01-30T22:10:40Z Ralt: nope, I don't close it
2015-01-30T22:11:04Z oleo: after you close it, the globals are in scope again....
2015-01-30T22:11:27Z Ralt: yeah, I know, but the funcall is made in the let, I'm certain of that.
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2015-01-30T22:14:55Z Ralt: found it
2015-01-30T22:15:05Z Ralt: the defvar were in a file loaded later with asdf...
2015-01-30T22:15:08Z nydel: ok so if i've an open telnet connection and the command is "IAC DON'T ECHO" ... what exactly do i do with that? just force output that string over a stream on the connection socket?
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2015-01-30T22:17:24Z pjb: nydel: you should disable echo.
2015-01-30T22:17:47Z Xach: nydel: it's not a literal string, but a description of the 8-bit codes to be sent.
2015-01-30T22:18:01Z Xach: IAC is 255, DON'T is 254, and I don't know what ECHO is.
2015-01-30T22:18:18Z nydel: ohh right of course
2015-01-30T22:18:32Z nydel: this shouldn't be as hard as i thought it was
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2015-01-30T22:19:32Z Xach: it can help to do the simplest thing that does something interesting and accumulate from there
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2015-01-30T22:21:47Z nydel: Xach: that makes a lot of sense
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2015-01-30T22:23:01Z nydel: grr but i don't know what that is because apparently i have to have the client send iac do rcte / "server you can mess with my terminal printer"
2015-01-30T22:23:42Z pjb: clients may have printers attached, and the server may send data to the printer of the client, instead of the video.
2015-01-30T22:24:29Z pjb: If you don't have a printer, you may simulated it by sending it to a file.
2015-01-30T22:24:49Z nydel: oh it means literally a printer object not "terminal printer" as an idea
2015-01-30T22:24:55Z nydel: ok.
2015-01-30T22:25:26Z nydel: i forget this spec is really old probably
2015-01-30T22:25:31Z Xach: probably
2015-01-30T22:25:34Z nydel: yes 1973 in fact
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2015-01-30T22:33:06Z _death converted ll1 mailing list posts to rfc934 file so can use gnus nndoc to read them
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2015-01-30T22:49:17Z emaczen: How do you reload a system with ASDF?
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2015-01-30T22:50:16Z Bicyclidine: :force t, i think
2015-01-30T22:50:58Z emaczen: Bicyclidine: Can you give an example?]
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2015-01-30T22:51:12Z Bicyclidine: (asdf:load-system system :force t) is what i'm thinking
2015-01-30T22:51:33Z fe[nl]ix: emaczen: why do you want to reload it ?
2015-01-30T22:51:50Z emaczen: What do you do when you modify your build definitions?
2015-01-30T22:52:46Z fe[nl]ix: what do you mean by build definitions ?
2015-01-30T22:53:07Z emaczen: the asdf and package.lisp files which describe dependencies and symbol exports
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2015-01-30T22:54:00Z Xach: emaczen: i usually C-c C-c on individual forms to re-evaluate
2015-01-30T22:54:08Z Xach: or C-c C-k to load a whole file
2015-01-30T22:54:19Z Xach: I don't find myself often reloading the system itself, except when I restart
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2015-01-30T22:56:27Z fe[nl]ix: emaczen: if you edit the .asd file itself you have to run load-system again, but :force t is not necessary
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2015-01-30T22:56:42Z fe[nl]ix: that will recompile all dependencies too, and it's usually not what you need
2015-01-30T22:57:17Z emaczen: fe[nl]ix: how do you re-compile individual systems then?
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2015-01-30T23:00:00Z fe[nl]ix: emaczen: at the Slime REPL, type ,l RET name RET
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2015-01-30T23:02:04Z emaczen: What is ",l" I don't have that completion if I just type ,TAB
2015-01-30T23:03:15Z fe[nl]ix: just type a comma then a tab
2015-01-30T23:03:36Z fe[nl]ix: you ought to get a completion buffer
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2015-01-30T23:03:55Z fe[nl]ix: l is just a shortcut for load-system
2015-01-30T23:03:58Z otwieracz: I see creating bindings for OpenCV just like python ones will be pain in ass :(
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2015-01-30T23:05:50Z Xach: that is a bummer. seems like people really want them.
2015-01-30T23:06:08Z Xach: Can it be done once and then they'll be a wonderful thing until the next update?
2015-01-30T23:06:14Z Xach: Or is it ongoing painful maintenance?
2015-01-30T23:06:38Z otwieracz: I belive maintenance will not be painful.
2015-01-30T23:06:45Z otwieracz: Thigs are autogenerated here.
2015-01-30T23:07:00Z otwieracz: Things*
2015-01-30T23:07:41Z otwieracz: In OpenCV, there are few Python scripts used to generate bindings.
2015-01-30T23:08:12Z emaczen: fe[nl]ix: load-system is not a compeletion...
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2015-01-30T23:08:27Z otwieracz: More or less, Python templates used here has to be rewritten into CL ones.
2015-01-30T23:09:57Z emaczen: can someone tell me the difference between ':' and '::'
2015-01-30T23:10:29Z otwieracz: emaczen: : gaves you access to package's exported symbols.
2015-01-30T23:10:36Z otwieracz: emaczen: with :: you can access internal ones.
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2015-01-30T23:11:06Z emaczen: otwieracz: Thanks!
2015-01-30T23:11:21Z otwieracz: No problem, glad to help you with my little knowledge ;)
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2015-01-30T23:12:59Z emaczen: can anyone recommend a regex and http library from quicklisp?
2015-01-30T23:13:24Z otwieracz: cl-pcre
2015-01-30T23:13:29Z otwieracz: And, afair, drakma.
2015-01-30T23:13:42Z otwieracz: cl-ppcre, of course.
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2015-01-30T23:14:56Z nyef: Yeah, cl-ppcre and drakma are the go-to regex and http client libraries.
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2015-01-30T23:33:16Z emaczen: is there a common-lisp function for replacing strings within a string?
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2015-01-30T23:33:55Z otwieracz: I believe there's something in cl-ppcre
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