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2015-01-29T00:37:26Z playnu_com_ar: hi! Exist any opensource and mantained CL implementation for android?
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2015-01-29T01:12:15Z White_Flame: Is there a way to prevent quicklisp from muffling build warnings?
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2015-01-29T01:19:57Z nyef: White_Flame: http://lispblog.xach.com/post/104872127228
2015-01-29T01:20:09Z nyef: White_Flame: Also http://lispblog.xach.com/post/105043399223
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2015-01-29T01:22:54Z White_Flame: thanks
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2015-01-29T01:23:09Z pjb: playnu_com_ar: ecl works on Android. (cf. the Maxima app).  ccl should also work on it (or there are some patches somewhere).
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2015-01-29T01:25:16Z playnu_com_ar: pjb: I ask because the last commit of the some ecl-android branch in github dates from 2 year old. And in google there isn't any information.
2015-01-29T01:25:46Z playnu_com_ar: i will try with ecl anyways (: thanks
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2015-01-29T01:27:27Z pjb: playnu_com_ar: probably nobody tried to make a standalone app  from ecl. But you can easily get it with maxima: just type to_lisp(); to go to the ECL REPL.
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2015-01-29T01:30:23Z nyef notes that if you don't need Android UI, SBCL should work. It certainly should work in a Linux chroot.
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2015-01-29T01:31:41Z pjb: In any case, Android UI has to be written in Java, so you will always have to communicate between an underlying CL implementation and Java to make an app.
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2015-01-29T01:32:07Z pjb: The only difference is whether it is a separate process, or if it's a NDK library.
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2015-01-29T01:32:37Z pjb: (I'm not sure that ECL under Maxima is used as a NDK library, IIRC, it's a separate process).
2015-01-29T01:33:00Z playnu_com_ar: my idea is make a game, the render engine in c++, the logic en CL
2015-01-29T01:33:00Z pjb: Only MoCL uses the NDK (but it's not free software).
2015-01-29T01:33:15Z pjb: playnu_com_ar: and the user interface in Java.
2015-01-29T01:33:27Z playnu_com_ar: yes
2015-01-29T01:33:30Z playnu_com_ar: thanks
2015-01-29T01:34:00Z pjb: Sounds like a plan.  Have a look in #lispgames for more info about writing games in lisp.
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2015-01-29T03:58:23Z beach: Good morning everyone!
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2015-01-29T04:00:59Z beach: drmeister: Yes, you can use INSERT-INSTRUCTION-BEFORE to change the graph, and you can use CHANGE-CLASS to just replace an instruction with a different one.
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2015-01-29T04:01:10Z drmeister: Howdy.
2015-01-29T04:01:13Z beach: Hello.
2015-01-29T04:01:33Z beach: drmeister: Yes, you can put a method on a drawing function to draw the resulting graph.
2015-01-29T04:01:41Z drmeister: What is the name of the method?
2015-01-29T04:01:46Z beach: To draw.
2015-01-29T04:01:47Z beach: ?
2015-01-29T04:02:05Z beach: You want me to remember things?  Aint gonna happen.  Let me look it up.
2015-01-29T04:03:36Z beach: CLEAVIR-IR-GRAPHVIZ:DRAW-INSTRUCTION, CLEAVIR-IR-GRAPHVIZ:DRAW-DATUM.
2015-01-29T04:03:45Z beach: They weren't exported before.  I am doing that now.
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2015-01-29T04:04:25Z beach: Signature: (instruction stream) and (datum stream) respectively.
2015-01-29T04:04:28Z drmeister: I figure that I should transform the HIR graph as much as I can to something close to LLVM-IR before I actually generate code.
2015-01-29T04:04:44Z drmeister: What's a datum?  A variable?
2015-01-29T04:04:45Z beach: It will draw something by default if you don't make methods.
2015-01-29T04:04:49Z drmeister: input/output
2015-01-29T04:04:52Z drmeister: ?
2015-01-29T04:04:54Z beach: variable, constant, register.
2015-01-29T04:04:55Z beach: yes.
2015-01-29T04:05:05Z drmeister: Got it.  How do I transform datum(s)?
2015-01-29T04:05:19Z beach: change-class is one way.
2015-01-29T04:05:29Z nyef: Hello beach.
2015-01-29T04:05:31Z drmeister: Ah
2015-01-29T04:05:46Z drmeister: It sounds like there other ways?
2015-01-29T04:06:39Z beach: Other ways are more complicated.  You would have to create new ones and replace them everywhere.
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2015-01-29T04:07:33Z drmeister: Is change-class a perfectly good way to change datums?
2015-01-29T04:07:41Z beach: Yes.
2015-01-29T04:07:56Z beach: Well, to replace the type of a datum by a different type.
2015-01-29T04:08:13Z drmeister: So I can create my own classes and change instructions, insert instructions and change datums to my little hearts content?
2015-01-29T04:08:23Z beach: Yes.
2015-01-29T04:08:33Z beach: That's the entire point of Cleavir.
2015-01-29T04:08:40Z drmeister: Fantastic - now I get it.
2015-01-29T04:09:17Z drmeister: So the idea is to manipulate the HIR into MIR and then use it to spool out instructions?
2015-01-29T04:09:44Z beach: Yes.
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2015-01-29T04:10:34Z beach: And I (will) provide algorithms for all the popular optimizations, like global value numbering, partial redundancy elimination, loop optimizations etc.
2015-01-29T04:10:56Z beach: drmeister: Aint CLOS great?
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2015-01-29T04:11:21Z drmeister: That answers my questions for now. I'll probably have questions as I hit different instructions.
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2015-01-29T04:12:35Z beach: Many of the optimization algorithms can be performed without knowing the semantics of an instruction.  Therefore, those algorithms don't care what kind of additional instructions the implementation has supplied.
2015-01-29T04:12:57Z beach: They just need to know the inputs and the outputs.
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2015-01-29T04:14:39Z drmeister: Got it.
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2015-01-29T04:15:54Z drmeister: There was a function related to special variables - I can't generate the HIR at the moment because I'm debugging generic functions that don't have specializers. It was something like call-with-bound-variable or something.  Does that ring a bell?
2015-01-29T04:15:57Z beach: As you start creating your own instruction types etc, you may run into cases where I "forgot" to export the name of a generic function that is supposed to be possible to configure by the implementation.  If so, let me know.
2015-01-29T04:16:22Z beach: drmeister: Yes.  That is the default way of binding a special variable.
2015-01-29T04:16:34Z beach: If you are not happy with that, you need to customize that method.
2015-01-29T04:16:42Z drmeister: I can change that behavior - excellent.
2015-01-29T04:17:12Z beach: Yes.  Cleavir can't decide how you bind your special variables, so it is doing something by default that may not be appropriate for your implementation.
2015-01-29T04:17:56Z beach: What is lacking at the moment is that I need an IMPLEMENTATION argument to the HIR-generation functions.
2015-01-29T04:18:16Z beach: I already warned you before that I will add that one day.
2015-01-29T04:19:15Z beach: The normal CLOS "rule" is that when you alter some behavior by adding a method, you must specialize to at least one class that is your own.
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2015-01-29T04:19:41Z beach: Currently, that is not possible for HIR generation, because there is nothing to specialize on for the implementation.
2015-01-29T04:21:08Z beach: Note to self: explain that rule in the book on CLOS programming.
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2015-01-29T04:27:56Z beach: The main design challenge with Cleavir is to simultaneously make it easy to use by an implementation and allow the implementation to fully customize it.
2015-01-29T04:28:21Z beach: But I guess that's true for any significant library.
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2015-01-29T04:35:05Z drmeister: beach: Thanks - sorry - I got called away.
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2015-01-29T04:42:39Z beach: drmeister: So how do we figure out the problem that I can't reproduce?
2015-01-29T04:43:20Z drmeister: Oh - no, not yet.
2015-01-29T04:43:40Z beach: I mean, do you have a plan?
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2015-01-29T04:46:12Z drmeister: It's not much of a plan it's fix my current problem and then rebuild everything and try again.  It was a case with a lambda with two special arguments rather than one.  One works, two threw an error.
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2015-01-29T04:46:58Z beach: Oh!  I see.
2015-01-29T04:47:02Z beach: Not good.
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2015-01-29T04:52:02Z drmeister: Currently I have a segfault when I call HIR-TO-MIR.   I think it's because I haven't written any SPECIALIZE methods and and something is wrong with generic function dispatch.
2015-01-29T04:52:20Z beach: Oh, I see.
2015-01-29T04:52:20Z drmeister: Something goes horribly wrong when it fails.
2015-01-29T04:52:28Z burtons: I thought I would share a new image I made with vecto: http://burtonsamograd.github.io
2015-01-29T04:52:40Z burtons: lisp is great for art :)
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2015-01-29T04:53:54Z pillton: burtons: Is that from Ghost in the Shell?
2015-01-29T04:54:02Z burtons: no, i just made it using vecto
2015-01-29T04:54:15Z loke: burtons: You might want to read up on LOOP
2015-01-29T04:54:22Z loke: It would help you make the code readable :-)
2015-01-29T04:54:25Z JokesOnYou77: burtons, beautiful.  Looks like the rainmeter system clock
2015-01-29T04:54:34Z burtons: yeah, i haven't learned loop yet
2015-01-29T04:54:39Z burtons: i'm fine with do
2015-01-29T04:54:49Z burtons: JokesOnYou77: thanks
2015-01-29T04:55:09Z drmeister: segfaults - terrible things - amiright?
2015-01-29T04:55:09Z burtons: vecto is way nicer to program with than using the gimp...faster rendering too
2015-01-29T04:55:27Z JokesOnYou77: I actually like LOOP, but to completely honest both LOOP and DO make my eyes bleed a little
2015-01-29T04:56:02Z beach: drmeister: At least that can't be a Cleavir problem.
2015-01-29T04:56:34Z drmeister: Nope - you're off the hook for at least a little while :-)
2015-01-29T04:56:44Z beach: Whew!
2015-01-29T04:56:57Z drmeister: I own all segfaults.
2015-01-29T04:57:33Z beach: I KNEW I had a good reason not to touch any languages other than Common Lisp. :)
2015-01-29T04:57:53Z JokesOnYou77: burtons, So the entire thing was produced by those 50 lines or so?  That's amazing.  I've never used vector.  Even though it is the first example quicklisp uses.
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2015-01-29T04:58:15Z beach: JokesOnYou77: "vecto".
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2015-01-29T04:58:28Z burtons: JokesOnYou77: yup, that's the source code. i consider it the artist statement.
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2015-01-29T05:00:08Z JokesOnYou77: *vecto
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2015-01-29T05:02:43Z JokesOnYou77: This eally is amazing.  It really inspires me to want to keep learning and using lisp.  As my office has dropped Lisp as a language I've started to move away from it but this is actually kind of inspiring.
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2015-01-29T05:06:40Z burtons: i'm getting back into making programmatic art
2015-01-29T05:06:49Z burtons: i used to write music using lisp as well, using clm
2015-01-29T05:07:16Z burtons: i did an ep called 'programmed piano' that had 4 songs that were generated by a simulated player
2015-01-29T05:07:29Z JokesOnYou77: A contractor we had at work was Way into music with code.  It's a very cool field.
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2015-01-29T05:09:07Z burtons: i've gone in and out of music, never made much money at it though
2015-01-29T05:10:03Z burtons: i'm getting into writing some more, i just wrote a cl wrapper for mikmod to get some easy sound output from lisp
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2015-01-29T05:10:22Z JokesOnYou77: Not to be overly general but we do art because it's our passion.  If it makes us money then we're just lucky. :)
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2015-01-29T05:10:38Z burtons: yeah
2015-01-29T05:10:47Z burtons: https://archive.org/search.php?query=kruhft my music from a previous life
2015-01-29T05:10:58Z burtons: some programmatic
2015-01-29T05:11:47Z JokesOnYou77: Very Cool
2015-01-29T05:13:13Z JokesOnYou77: My girlfriend is a choral singer and she keeps telling me music is math, and I believe her, I just don't know how to take advantage of it
2015-01-29T05:13:32Z burtons: once you get the hang of it, it's pretty easy math
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2015-01-29T05:13:42Z burtons: 3rds, fifths, etc
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2015-01-29T05:13:54Z burtons: all numeric patterns based on root notes
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2015-01-29T05:14:15Z burtons: major/minor scales are all just set intervals
2015-01-29T05:14:22Z burtons: it's not too tricky
2015-01-29T05:14:30Z joga: ugh... I'd need to make some quick song today that has precise length requirements heh
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2015-01-29T05:15:05Z burtons: for work?
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2015-01-29T05:15:16Z joga: nah for leisure, demoparty on weekend and need some music for the  entry
2015-01-29T05:15:27Z burtons: ah
2015-01-29T05:15:43Z JokesOnYou77: How do you program the drop? O.O
2015-01-29T05:15:54Z JokesOnYou77: (dubstep reference, srry)
2015-01-29T05:15:54Z joga: it's just that it's a bit obscure so I need to get my head around fitting parts etc..
2015-01-29T05:16:27Z burtons: (funcall #'drop (the bass))
2015-01-29T05:16:45Z JokesOnYou77: Rofl!
2015-01-29T05:16:47Z joga: I listened to mail from god, liked it
2015-01-29T05:16:59Z burtons: that's one of my favorite tracks :)
2015-01-29T05:17:01Z burtons: thanks
2015-01-29T05:17:19Z burtons: games was my last album i put out
2015-01-29T05:17:34Z burtons: well, put up for download
2015-01-29T05:18:11Z JokesOnYou77: I feel like you could put the UKF dubstep tutorial into a program that uses the same bpm as the original with parameters for the sounds used.  It's almost generlized enough to be programatic
2015-01-29T05:18:43Z burtons: i'm sure ventian squares wrote one program back in the day and has been using it for every album since
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2015-01-29T05:19:14Z burtons: (breakcore (random-samples))
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2015-01-29T05:22:25Z burtons: squares -> snares
2015-01-29T05:22:30Z burtons: oops
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2015-01-29T06:36:20Z beach: drmeister: Did you figure out what the problem was?
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2015-01-29T07:02:24Z jusss: does lisp have some function to get all files name of a directory ?
2015-01-29T07:03:41Z axion: jusss: i think you're looking for LIST-DIRECTORY as part of CL-FAD?
2015-01-29T07:04:15Z jusss: axion: what's CL-FAD ?
2015-01-29T07:04:26Z axion: a portable pathname library
2015-01-29T07:05:16Z Shinmera: Or just UIOP:DIRECTORY-FILES
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2015-01-29T07:06:12Z jusss: axion: for which implement ?
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2015-01-29T07:06:43Z beach: jusss: Listen to Shinmera.
2015-01-29T07:07:00Z beach: jusss: UIOP is in ASDF so you probably already have it installed.
2015-01-29T07:07:32Z Shinmera: Good morning, beach
2015-01-29T07:07:46Z beach: Hello Shinmera.
2015-01-29T07:07:50Z jusss: I don't install ASDF :(
2015-01-29T07:08:11Z beach: jusss: You probably did without knowing.  Otherwise, you should.
2015-01-29T07:08:20Z beach: jusss: You should also use Quicklisp.
2015-01-29T07:09:02Z axion: Hi guys. I've been getting no sleep with my latest CL project.
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2015-01-29T07:09:19Z beach: Is that good or bad?
2015-01-29T07:09:32Z axion: Good, I'm having fun learning new technologies :)
2015-01-29T07:09:48Z Shinmera: Aw shit, my bot didn't reconnect to freenode over night. Large chunk of the logs is missing.
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2015-01-29T07:10:15Z beach: Shinmera: You can always go to Tunes.
2015-01-29T07:10:44Z Shinmera: Right, but a few people use my logs and it doesn't exactly tell you when it didn't log.
2015-01-29T07:11:03Z beach: I see.
2015-01-29T07:11:44Z axion: I've been writing an OpenGL game in CL for the last 2 months about 12 hours per day, with absolutely no experience :)
2015-01-29T07:11:58Z beach: Impressive.
2015-01-29T07:12:13Z Shinmera: That is quite some dedication
2015-01-29T07:12:15Z axion: I actually just posted a video update
2015-01-29T07:12:32Z axion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mskHpzyfWA
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2015-01-29T07:16:30Z Shinmera: axion: Some kind of turn based strategy game, I'm guessing?
2015-01-29T07:16:35Z Shinmera: Colleen: do chatlog-pg stats
2015-01-29T07:16:36Z Colleen: Logging freenode/#lisp since 2014.03.22 13:26:23 with a total of 569'676 events, of which 180'446 were messages from 1'530 users. The user with the most messages (13'323) is beach.
2015-01-29T07:16:41Z axion: Yessir
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2015-01-29T07:22:55Z Shinmera: Instead of drawing I think my first task for today will have to be to write an importer from the ccl.clozure.com logs to my DB format.
2015-01-29T07:24:01Z JokesOnYou77: Will '|\\| give my a backslash symbol? It prints in the REPL as \\ but I can't figure out how else to get it
2015-01-29T07:25:17Z Bike: you can just do '\\
2015-01-29T07:25:22Z JokesOnYou77: It worked!
2015-01-29T07:25:50Z Bike: backslashes are still interpreted in ||, i did not know that
2015-01-29T07:26:06Z JokesOnYou77: I was defining it for a readtable: (set-macro-character #\\ (lambda (stream ch)  (declare (ignore stream ch))  '|\\|)) wasn't sure it would work othewise
2015-01-29T07:26:17Z JokesOnYou77: Yeah, I didn't think they would be either :P
2015-01-29T07:26:31Z Bike: (length (symbol-name '\\)) => 1
2015-01-29T07:27:26Z Bike: (write '\\ :escape nil) => \
2015-01-29T07:27:29Z Bike: escaping is the worst
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2015-01-29T07:29:08Z JokesOnYou77: I use WRITE so rearely I completely forgot all the other functions are just flipping it's switches.  Should have tried that
2015-01-29T07:29:39Z Bike: (princ '\\) then
2015-01-29T07:30:35Z JokesOnYou77: ANd yes, it's a nightmare.  Guty at work threw it all out and decided to parse everything byte-wise.  Took all summer to write a trie to hold all possible UTF-8 combinations.  (I did not endorse this decision)
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2015-01-29T07:37:33Z isoraqathedh: I think \ continues to be interpreted in pipes because otherwise you can't put a pipe inside a piped nae.
2015-01-29T07:38:00Z isoraqathedh: So for example you can't do |FUNNY\|SYMBOL\|NAME|.
2015-01-29T07:38:53Z loke: isoraqathedh: Of course you can
2015-01-29T07:39:11Z loke: (symbol-name '|f\|oo|) → "f|oo"
2015-01-29T07:39:27Z isoraqathedh: Eu, you misinterpreted me.
2015-01-29T07:39:38Z isoraqathedh: That symbol name requires \ to be interpreted inside ||.
2015-01-29T07:39:44Z beach: loke: He was giving the reason why \ is still an escape char inside ||.
2015-01-29T07:39:51Z loke: beach: Ah OK
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2015-01-29T07:41:03Z beach: Time to get to work!
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2015-01-29T08:05:26Z Shinmera: Bah, the conversion hiccuped in a few places, but at least the missing parts are backfilled.
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2015-01-29T08:48:30Z dmitigr: \part
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2015-01-29T10:00:17Z CrazyWoods: Are there gui toolkit implement for osx using cocoa backend?
2015-01-29T10:01:12Z splittist: CrazyWoods: not sure what you mean by toolkit. You've seen http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/wiki/Cocoa
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2015-01-29T10:07:02Z CrazyWoods: splittist: thank you
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2015-01-29T11:46:26Z taspat: hi, why does this return #(a b) and not #(4 2)
2015-01-29T11:46:49Z taspat:  
2015-01-29T11:46:49Z taspat: (defun g ()
2015-01-29T11:46:49Z taspat:   (let ((a 4) (b 2))
2015-01-29T11:46:49Z taspat:     #(a b)))
2015-01-29T11:47:51Z ggole: Vector literals don't result in their parts being evaluated.
2015-01-29T11:48:02Z jdz: taspat: because that's how the #( reader works. you can do #(,a ,b), but that's might bite you
2015-01-29T11:48:02Z ggole: Use (vector a b).
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2015-01-29T11:48:20Z taspat: oh ok
2015-01-29T11:48:45Z taspat: but that made think of one concept
2015-01-29T11:48:59Z taspat: the concept of clojure
2015-01-29T11:49:05Z ggole: In other words, #(a b) is read as a vector literal instead of being read as code to construct a vector of a and b.
2015-01-29T11:49:43Z taspat: it doesn't have a function that it is returned to save some lexical scope state, right?
2015-01-29T11:49:59Z taspat: if I return, like in example, a vector
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2015-01-29T11:50:36Z taspat: oh no, a vector is created with the variables evaluated already..
2015-01-29T11:50:37Z ggole: Sorry, not following you.
2015-01-29T11:50:53Z ggole: Are you referring to lazy sequences?
2015-01-29T11:51:45Z taspat: I mean, can return something that is NOT a function and still have access to the environment you returned from?
2015-01-29T11:52:00Z ggole: No.
2015-01-29T11:52:36Z ggole: Anyway, if you returned something that wasn't a function there would be no need for an environment
2015-01-29T11:55:31Z taspat: ok, ty, ggole
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2015-01-29T12:40:18Z mrkkrp: Are ampersand-prefixed symbols are special in any way?
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2015-01-29T12:46:04Z splittist: mrkkrp: only those listed in LAMBDA-LIST-KEYWORDS, and then only in a lambda-list.
2015-01-29T12:48:30Z splittist: mrkkrp: despite being called lambda-list-keywords, they are usually not in the KEYWORD package. (:
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2015-01-29T13:45:34Z ivan4th: interesting. (st-json:write-json-to-string -1d0) => "-1.e+0" (sbcl 1.2.6) which is invalid JSON (no digits after .). st-json uses (format stream "~,,,,,,'eE" element) for REAL, what is the best way to fix it, what do you think?
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2015-01-29T13:49:24Z ivan4th: cl-json uses ~f which in some cases may produce such invalid JSON, too
2015-01-29T13:50:07Z ivan4th: and yason just uses PRINC
2015-01-29T13:50:43Z ivan4th: so, all CL json impls can possibly output broken JSON? too bad...
2015-01-29T13:51:13Z ivan4th: "-1.e+0" cannot be parsed by Chrome btw
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2015-01-29T13:52:01Z Grue``: firefox parses it though!
2015-01-29T13:52:06Z ivan4th: yes, it does
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2015-01-29T13:54:53Z ivan4th: but that doesn't seem to be good enough reason to support only Firefox in one's app
2015-01-29T13:55:04Z Grue`: internet explorer as well
2015-01-29T13:55:09Z Grue`: maybe it's a bug in chrome
2015-01-29T13:55:14Z ivan4th: no
2015-01-29T13:55:32Z ivan4th: JSON spec says that there must be at least one digit after the dot
2015-01-29T13:56:26Z Ralt: hello
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2015-01-29T13:57:56Z Ralt: I don't get why it returns anything, since the condition shouldn't let it pass
2015-01-29T13:58:06Z Grue`: oh wait, when I do JSON.parse, both Firefox and IE raise error, so it's invalid JSON but I think it's valid Javascript number
2015-01-29T13:58:38Z Ralt: I'm guessing it might have something to do with return-from... but am clueles
2015-01-29T13:58:41Z Ralt: s
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2015-01-29T13:59:50Z splittist: ivan4th: sounds like a simple recipe built on decode-float would help all the cl/json implementations (:
2015-01-29T13:59:56Z Grue`: Ralt: but when j=#(2) unless goes through
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2015-01-29T14:00:28Z ivan4th: splittist: yeah, perhaps that's the answer
2015-01-29T14:00:51Z ivan4th: every lisp impl giving different JSON output just doesn't feel right
2015-01-29T14:00:58Z Grue`: isn't there a directive to print at least n digits from the floating part
2015-01-29T14:01:02Z Ralt: Grue`: uuuh yes. Let me build another example... sorry
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2015-01-29T14:12:06Z splittist: Grue`: it could be that the issue is that in the FORMAT specification the decimal point is part of the leading digits, and in the JSON specification it is part of the trailing decimals (if you see what I mean).
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2015-01-29T14:13:32Z splittist: clhs 22.3.3.2
2015-01-29T14:13:33Z specbot: Tilde E: Exponential Floating-Point: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_ccb.htm
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2015-01-29T14:24:39Z ejbs: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=PlayStation-4-LLVM-Landing could this mean Clasp on the Ps4?
2015-01-29T14:26:51Z ejbs: Or probably not, since that is Clang and not LLVM
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2015-01-29T14:38:04Z nyef: G'morning all.
2015-01-29T14:40:11Z splittist: morning nyef.
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2015-01-29T14:55:35Z Ralt: heya
2015-01-29T14:55:41Z Ralt: how can I run slime as root?
2015-01-29T14:56:29Z Ralt: ideally I'd like to sudo to keep it in my normal emacs
2015-01-29T14:56:37Z H4ns: Ralt: i know it is wrong to ask, but anyway:  why do you want to do that?
2015-01-29T14:56:38Z drmeister: ejbs: Yes - it probably means clasp will run on the PS4
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2015-01-29T14:57:23Z Ralt: H4ns: there are commands that I use that require root. I can use sudo for that, but then I can't use (with-open-file)
2015-01-29T14:57:28Z drmeister: When I read the initial specs on the PS4 development environment I saw that they would not support exception handling - that is the only thing that gives me pause.
2015-01-29T14:57:42Z Ralt: if I were on the CLI it'd be fine; but I'm in the REPL there...
2015-01-29T14:57:45Z H4ns: Ralt: ah, ok.
2015-01-29T14:57:49Z Ralt: maybe I can do privilege elevation instead?
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2015-01-29T14:57:58Z Ralt: I'd love sudo... keeping the username.
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2015-01-29T14:58:57Z Ralt: no idea how to do that :/
2015-01-29T14:59:03Z Ralt: I don't want to run emacs as root...
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2015-01-29T14:59:31Z drmeister: See http://llvm.org/devmtg/2013-11/slides/Robinson-PS4Toolchain.pdf    page 23.  They disable exception handling and RTTI.
2015-01-29T14:59:59Z drmeister: I don't understand why they do such a thing.  If you want C++ , support C++!
2015-01-29T15:00:25Z Grue`: Ralt: you can run swank server as root, then connect to it from emacs with M-x slime-connect
2015-01-29T15:00:46Z Ralt: Grue`: hmmm indeed
2015-01-29T15:00:48Z Ralt: thanks
2015-01-29T15:02:02Z dlowe: with the understanding that you're opening a pretty massive security hole :D
2015-01-29T15:02:10Z splittist: Who's porting swank to Mezzano?
2015-01-29T15:02:29Z dlowe: ... is this a trick question?
2015-01-29T15:02:34Z dlowe: it's you isn't it
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2015-01-29T15:03:41Z splittist: ):
2015-01-29T15:06:04Z Ralt: dlowe: of course.
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2015-01-29T15:06:10Z Ralt: the end app will be a CLI anyway
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2015-01-29T15:34:11Z splittist: Hmmm. It looks like clang on Win64 is not impossible, even for exceptions. Clasp within grasp?
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2015-01-29T16:09:48Z JaneMin: I want to learn lisp, any advice where I should start? (beginner or medium* tutorials/books)
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2015-01-29T16:10:38Z Xach: JaneMin: Practical Common Lisp is a good book about Common Lisp.
2015-01-29T16:12:16Z hlavaty: wow, drakma:http-request has over 400 lines:-)
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2015-01-29T16:12:49Z nyef: hlavaty: I think I looked at it once and was horrified, yes.
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2015-01-29T16:13:01Z hlavaty: :-)
2015-01-29T16:13:06Z Anarch: JaneMin: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/
2015-01-29T16:13:47Z Anarch: JaneMin: linked from http://www.cliki.net/Lisp%20books which has many more
2015-01-29T16:13:58Z JaneMin: found it, thx ... i'll be back in a few chapters
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2015-01-29T16:20:25Z burtons: JaneMin: Land of Lisp is pretty good as well.
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2015-01-29T16:24:09Z jdz: i've heard it's buggy
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2015-01-29T16:26:29Z JaneMin: I'll start with the free one and see where it gets me, added Land of Lisp to the listh though
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2015-01-29T16:34:52Z Oladon: JaneMin: Land of Lisp is great :)
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2015-01-29T16:35:35Z cadadar: indeed
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2015-01-29T16:37:07Z cadadar: While I feel like I learned more from Practical Common Lisp, after finishing Land of Lisp I think I got more of the nuances of CL and the mindset of writing idiomatic CL code
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2015-01-29T16:41:47Z Xach: no way.
2015-01-29T16:41:50Z Xach: land of lisp is weird code.
2015-01-29T16:42:02Z Xach: nice cartoons though.
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2015-01-29T16:45:44Z cadadar: Really? What's weird about the code?
2015-01-29T16:45:44Z cadadar: Distinct features that come to my mind are the heavy use of flet/labels and preferring car/cdr over first/rest (I think Seibel recommends the latter?)
2015-01-29T16:45:44Z cadadar: But these don't seem too weird to me
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2015-01-29T16:49:36Z Grue`: the thing is, when I look at source code for various popular libraries, it often looks nothing alike; it clearly depends on the author's preferences; so whether there even exists an idiomatic CL style is questionable
2015-01-29T16:50:27Z H4ns: basically, it boils down to "my style is idiomatic, your style is not" :)
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2015-01-29T16:50:37Z cadadar: hm ok ic
2015-01-29T16:51:08Z nyef: People have their own idioms.
2015-01-29T16:51:20Z foom: yea but some people's idioms are wrong. :)
2015-01-29T16:51:25Z nyef: True.
2015-01-29T16:51:40Z Xach: One easy thing to pick on is the inconsistent formatting
2015-01-29T16:51:48Z vanila: what is some of the best readable code out there?
2015-01-29T16:52:03Z nyef: I find any book where the title has an acronym of "lol" to be sufficiently off-putting that I can't even stand to try and read it.
2015-01-29T16:52:05Z Grue`: my own
2015-01-29T16:53:16Z Grue`: Lisp on Lines was a good pun on Ruby on Rails, too bad that project didn't take off
2015-01-29T16:55:00Z cadadar: Xach: Inconsistent formatting? For some reason I hoped Lispers are immune to that kind of madness which haunts non-homoiconic languages
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2015-01-29T16:55:42Z cadadar: At least it's not about where to put spaces but 'only' about where to put newlines, I guess?
2015-01-29T16:55:56Z H4ns: it is all about spaces
2015-01-29T16:56:04Z Xach: Consistent formatting makes things easier to understand.
2015-01-29T16:56:14Z nyef: Some vertical spaces, some horizontal spaces... It's all about the spaces.
2015-01-29T16:56:22Z Xach: Old lisp code, despite being homoiconic, is pretty rough on the eyes.
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2015-01-29T16:58:04Z nyef: Random capitalization changes in various sections of a file, *read-base* changes on a per-file basis... Yeah, it gets pretty gnarly.
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2015-01-29T16:58:13Z cadadar: ouch
2015-01-29T16:58:18Z cadadar: didn't think about that
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2015-01-29T16:59:13Z nyef: A distressing tendency for some authors to use TAGBODY a whole awful lot...
2015-01-29T17:00:00Z H4ns: nyef: "i'm not a friggin quiche eater"
2015-01-29T17:00:15Z nyef: H4ns: "That's too many GO tags, RG!"
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2015-01-29T17:00:26Z Petit_Dejeuner: There was a book I flipped through in the library "Seven languages in seven days" or something. All lisp code examples put closing braces on their own line.
2015-01-29T17:00:54Z Petit_Dejeuner: That was a NEW book.
2015-01-29T17:01:26Z nyef: Petit_Dejeuner: An example of "real programmers can write FORTRAN in any language."
2015-01-29T17:01:45Z Xach: cadadar: anyway, it may be that ultimately you prefer land of lisp style, but i recommend reading a bunch of code and seeing what you like best.
2015-01-29T17:02:07Z Xach: I started Lisp by reading ANSI Common Lisp, but over time I found I really didn't like the style it laid out.
2015-01-29T17:02:12Z nyef: cadadar: Also read as many lisp style guides as you can get your paws on.
2015-01-29T17:02:36Z cadadar: Yeah I will
2015-01-29T17:02:50Z nyef: Often a style guide will lay out a rule, but also give a justification for that rule.
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2015-01-29T17:03:51Z nyef: Which can help you decide if you want to adhere to the rule, but also helps you understand part of the culture which created the rule.
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2015-01-29T17:04:05Z cadadar: Yeah, I've seen such guides for the other languages I've learned
2015-01-29T17:05:17Z cadadar: Any CL guide you'd recommend?
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2015-01-29T17:05:56Z nyef: No. I recommend finding as many as you can and reading them all, but not necessarily FOLLOWING any of them.
2015-01-29T17:05:57Z dlowe: I like the google CL style guide
2015-01-29T17:06:13Z vanila: google has a guide on CL?
2015-01-29T17:06:22Z antoszka: Yes.
2015-01-29T17:06:29Z vanila: link?
2015-01-29T17:06:41Z antoszka: just google google common lisp style guide :)
2015-01-29T17:07:09Z antoszka: 1st hit.
2015-01-29T17:07:51Z cadadar: nyef: k, makes sense
2015-01-29T17:08:02Z Petit_Dejeuner: nyef, There was an o'reilly book that went over the philosophy of syntax conventions when introducing them. I can't remember seeing that anywhere else.
2015-01-29T17:08:30Z nyef: Petit_Dejeuner: ... Can you tell us which book?
2015-01-29T17:09:08Z nyef: I think that that particular publisher has more than one book, so narrowing it down might be nice. (-:
2015-01-29T17:09:14Z jackdaniel: o'reilly's one ;-]
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2015-01-29T17:10:44Z splittist: This one? http://kevinbingham.com/Obsfucate_C.JPG
2015-01-29T17:10:51Z Petit_Dejeuner: nyef, It wasn't on lisp. I was thinking of this. http://www.amazon.com/Ruby-Programming-Language-David-Flanagan/dp/0596516177
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2015-01-29T17:11:04Z Petit_Dejeuner: splittist, That can't be real.
2015-01-29T17:11:47Z nyef: splittist: Is that explanations for past IOCCC winners or something?
2015-01-29T17:12:00Z nyef: Petit_Dejeuner: It's quite plausible, given the IOCCC.
2015-01-29T17:12:06Z splittist: It's a spoof. Or is it...?
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2015-01-29T17:14:18Z Petit_Dejeuner: http://s.radar.oreilly.com/wp-files/7/2013/03/threecovers_web.jpg
2015-01-29T17:14:21Z PuercoPop: Norvig also has some slides on lisp style http://norvig.com/luv-slides.ps The main take away is stay consistent. And minor stuff like use labels only when flet won't suffice, don't use one-armed if and stuff like that.
2015-01-29T17:14:52Z Petit_Dejeuner: They don't typically reuse cover images, do they?
2015-01-29T17:15:01Z dlowe: There's a program called lisp-critic that will analyze your program and complain about nitpicky style errors
2015-01-29T17:15:13Z Petit_Dejeuner: Is there a working version still out there?
2015-01-29T17:15:23Z splittist: Also http://www.bofhcam.org/co-larters/ , or http://lisp-book.org/ ...
2015-01-29T17:15:32Z dlowe: I got it to work once, but that was years ago.
2015-01-29T17:17:20Z Petit_Dejeuner: PuercoPop, Everytime a new lisp combines let and let* it irks me for that reason.
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2015-01-29T17:19:14Z beach: Good evening everyone!
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2015-01-29T17:20:15Z splittist: good evening beach
2015-01-29T17:20:47Z nyef: Hello beach.
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2015-01-29T17:23:10Z Oladon: Morning beach :)
2015-01-29T17:23:11Z jackdaniel: o/
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2015-01-29T17:47:38Z Xach: whee, dozens of systems busted by a cl-colors update
2015-01-29T17:48:07Z Xach wonders if the change was by design
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2015-01-29T17:48:39Z beach: Suppose I wanted to be able to give lots of parameters for file compilation, much like GCC command-line options.  Which solution is best: 1. Define a bunch of special variables that, when bound, will affect the way COMPILE-FILE behaves.  2. Define a function PRIVATE:COMPILE-FILE that takes those parameters as keyword arguments.  3. Both, and have PRIVATE:COMPILE-FILE set the special variables and call CL:COMPILE-FILE.  4.  Something
2015-01-29T17:48:39Z beach: else.
2015-01-29T17:48:58Z drmeister: Hey beach.
2015-01-29T17:49:17Z beach: Hello drmeister.  How is debugging going?
2015-01-29T17:49:56Z vanila: I think the first way sounds good assuming the options are not changed too often
2015-01-29T17:50:33Z dlowe: beach: can't you add keyword arguments to CL:COMPILE-FILE?
2015-01-29T17:50:56Z beach: I don't think so.  I seem to remember I checked that.  Hold on...
2015-01-29T17:51:01Z drmeister: It's when I don't implement SPECIALIZE and I call HIR-TO-MIR.  STANDARD-COMPUTE-EFFECTIVE-METHOD is returning  #'(lambda (&rest args) (apply 'no-primary method gf args))  -  in SLIME that causes a segfault for some reason
2015-01-29T17:51:44Z splittist: 3.5. Also add some functions for commonly used combinations of options. cf. WRITE *PRINT-FOO* PRINC PRIN1 etc (:
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2015-01-29T17:51:56Z beach: dlowe: I can't find a place where that would be allowed.
2015-01-29T17:52:08Z drmeister: I think it's because of an optimization that ECL uses and I copied where we pass all arguments in a vector and modify APPLY to treat it like a list of arguments.'
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2015-01-29T17:52:47Z Xach: drmeister: did you try out quicklisp with the new bootstrap & client files?
2015-01-29T17:52:52Z drmeister: dlowe: ECL adds keyword arguments to COMPILE-FILE.  I'm curious if it's allowed.
2015-01-29T17:53:00Z dlowe: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw50/CLHS/Body/01_f.htm
2015-01-29T17:53:37Z drmeister: Xach: I got distracted by my bug in generic dispatch when I don't specialize methods so no, not yet.
2015-01-29T17:53:38Z dlowe: I think adding keyword arguments is always okay
2015-01-29T17:53:55Z beach: dlowe: Oh, OK.  Excellent!
2015-01-29T17:54:53Z beach: dlowe: Indeed.  It looks that way.
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2015-01-29T17:55:19Z Xach: i have been hit by implementation details of this
2015-01-29T17:55:44Z Xach: i have a call like (cl:directory pathname :special-extra-keyword t :allow-other-keys t) and some implementation signaled a full warning or some other annoying thing at it.
2015-01-29T17:55:50Z Xach: at compile-time, that is.
2015-01-29T17:56:56Z Xach: I want to say it was clisp, but now I can't remember. I wound up using #+impl :special-extra-keyword #+impl t
2015-01-29T17:57:16Z splittist: An implementation may extend, but a conforming program may not use the extension (or something)
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2015-01-29T17:58:06Z ferada: Xach: cl-colors is now exporting the symbols without the plus signs, right?  doubt that part was intentional
2015-01-29T18:00:00Z Xach: ferada: i'm not exactly sure if it's doing that.
2015-01-29T18:00:18Z Xach: i mean, i know it's not exporting the + version, but i don't know if it's exporting everything without them, now
2015-01-29T18:00:50Z ferada: the package.lisp lists them as #:black etc.
2015-01-29T18:01:24Z Xach: does it match each define-rgb-color call? it seems like there were more of those than are now in the defpackage form, but i didn't check closely.
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2015-01-29T18:02:36Z ferada: yeah same elements
2015-01-29T18:02:41Z ferada: at least same length
2015-01-29T18:03:09Z drmeister: Question:   I'm fixing a bug in my generic dispatch and in GENERIC-COMPUTE-APPLICABLE-METHOD I just noticed something that I don't understand.   If there are no methods available GENERIC-COMPUTE-APPLICABLE-METHOD throws an error by calling NO-APPLICABLE-METHOD.   If there are methods available but no primary method it _returns_ a lambda that calls
2015-01-29T18:03:09Z drmeister: NO-PRIMARY-METHOD.
2015-01-29T18:03:10Z Xach: well, i opened an issue for it, anyway.
2015-01-29T18:04:35Z drmeister: Throwing the error NO-APPLICABLE-METHOD works fine.  Returning the lambda that calls NO-PRIMARY-METHOD segfaults in SLIME.   Would anyone have any insight as to why two different approaches to handling errors would be taken?  This approach is copied from ECL.
2015-01-29T18:05:14Z Bike: whoa, segfaults? in ecl or just clasp?
2015-01-29T18:06:24Z drmeister: Just clasp.   I'm still trying to get to the bottom of the segfault but understanding this might help.
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2015-01-29T18:09:20Z Bike: um, maybe it like calls the after and before methods and then signals the error?
2015-01-29T18:09:54Z Bike: around and before, rather
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2015-01-29T18:33:44Z JokesOnYou77: Is there a way to version-lock quicklisp imports similar to a Gemfile in ruby,  a maven pom in Java?
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2015-01-29T18:41:23Z drmeister: Xach: Some of my clasp users are reporting that quicklisp is working fine.
2015-01-29T18:41:27Z otwieracz: Hello.
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2015-01-29T18:42:51Z drmeister: otwieracz: Hello
2015-01-29T18:43:33Z drmeister: You have a querty unfriendly nickname.
2015-01-29T18:43:39Z otwieracz: Why?
2015-01-29T18:43:59Z beach: drmeister: Use completion.
2015-01-29T18:44:00Z Shinmera: Why type out names when you have tab completion
2015-01-29T18:44:02Z vanila: you have a great name dont worry
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2015-01-29T18:44:14Z drmeister: Holy crap!  I have tab completion!
2015-01-29T18:44:19Z samebchase: heh
2015-01-29T18:44:27Z drmeister: Thank you.
2015-01-29T18:44:40Z beach: Anytime.
2015-01-29T18:44:40Z Shinmera: I keep on getting astounded that there's so many people that don't realise they can tab complete names on IRC:
2015-01-29T18:44:42Z Shinmera: *.
2015-01-29T18:44:56Z otwieracz: drmeister: Oh, that's funny, sorry :)
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2015-01-29T18:46:40Z drmeister: You know that segfault I was just talking about?   I don't know if ECL segfaults but it does generate the same weird error message that mine does that I think is leading to a segfault.
2015-01-29T18:46:53Z drmeister: Generic function: FOO. No primary method given arguments: (#<frame 1> NIL)
2015-01-29T18:46:58Z drmeister: That is gratifying.
2015-01-29T18:47:11Z drmeister: Notice the arguments (#<frame 1> NIL)
2015-01-29T18:48:23Z drmeister: The first argument is an activation frame, a vector of arguments that APPLY would normally expand into a list of arguments.   The arguments that the generic function should dispatch on are buried in there.   We use the same optimization, and neither of us deal with this error message very well.
2015-01-29T18:48:45Z drmeister: I think in my case the #<frame 1> is being passed to PRINT-OBJECT and that is causing the segfault.
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2015-01-29T18:51:54Z otwieracz: I am afraid I'm too newbie for that kind of stuff. :)
2015-01-29T18:52:11Z otwieracz: But I feel what's happening here, I think.
2015-01-29T18:52:25Z cluck: Shinmera: don't be, sadly most electronic instant messaging clients most people are familiar with have poor if any text (and command) manipulation capabilities
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2015-01-29T19:01:38Z selat: Hello, what kind of projects (<= 5000 LOC) can you recommend to improve skill of programming in Common Lisp?
2015-01-29T19:01:55Z otwieracz: selat: CFFI interface for OpenCV
2015-01-29T19:02:40Z H4ns: ffi wrappers are rarely helpful to gather lisp skills (or any language skills for that matter)
2015-01-29T19:02:51Z axion: i would say a game, as you learn pretty much everything, and a lot of math and ideas that can be reused
2015-01-29T19:03:25Z H4ns: rather, when writing ffi wrappers, i always think how nice it'd be if i did not have to cope with a library written in a crappy language.
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2015-01-29T19:07:32Z pjb: selat: get Mezzano, make it run on bare hardware (if your OS oriented), or implement applications or tools on it.
2015-01-29T19:07:45Z pjb: s/your/you're/
2015-01-29T19:07:55Z nyef: A less-than-5000 LOC project? How about a disassembler for some random CPU?
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2015-01-29T19:08:12Z Shinmera: cl-ppcre has 7.5kloc...
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2015-01-29T19:09:08Z nyef: Petzold, in Programming Windows, said that the first program he tries to write for any new environment is a hex dump utility.
2015-01-29T19:09:30Z dlowe: go to stack overflow, check the top rated question of the day, solve the problem in CL, publish it.
2015-01-29T19:09:54Z dlowe: repeat until CL is popular
2015-01-29T19:10:07Z otwieracz: Is there anyone with some cl-autowrap experience?
2015-01-29T19:10:41Z otwieracz: http://wklej.org/hash/fb90c3daff/
2015-01-29T19:10:44Z otwieracz: That's my spec file
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2015-01-29T19:12:15Z otwieracz: And, in the line 50026 there's an enum made of two fields
2015-01-29T19:12:28Z wasamasa: dlowe: sounds like a task for sisyphus
2015-01-29T19:12:58Z otwieracz: http://paste.lisp.org/display/145457
2015-01-29T19:13:02Z dlowe: shrug. it's not so bad if you parallelize it across a large number of people
2015-01-29T19:13:08Z otwieracz: That's debugger output.
2015-01-29T19:13:30Z otwieracz: Any ideas why it might want to create array of size -2?
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2015-01-29T19:16:45Z nyef: otwieracz: This sounds like a wonderful opportunity for you to learn something about how cl-autowrap works internally.
2015-01-29T19:17:02Z otwieracz: yep!
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2015-01-29T19:17:22Z otwieracz: Do any of you have some time to spend with me?
2015-01-29T19:17:38Z otwieracz: Or, will have something against me using #lisp as notebook? :)
2015-01-29T19:18:15Z otwieracz: http://paste.lisp.org/display/145458
2015-01-29T19:18:22Z otwieracz: That's the case, isolated.
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2015-01-29T19:21:01Z otwieracz: Huh
2015-01-29T19:21:13Z nyef: The isolated case works?
2015-01-29T19:22:16Z otwieracz: No.
2015-01-29T19:22:17Z otwieracz: http://paste.lisp.org/display/145458#1
2015-01-29T19:22:29Z otwieracz: Adding additional field to this enum makes it working.
2015-01-29T19:24:58Z selat: thanks for answers!
2015-01-29T19:25:45Z nyef: What about enums id 99, 102, 122, 125, 126, and 151?
2015-01-29T19:25:55Z nyef: (All two-element enums.)
2015-01-29T19:26:29Z nyef: Is it something to do with the number of values, the range covered by the values... Something else?
2015-01-29T19:26:59Z nyef: Failing that, look through the source to see what it's doing when it tries that bogus make-array call.
2015-01-29T19:27:00Z otwieracz: Lemme see.
2015-01-29T19:27:47Z otwieracz: Looks like it's working.
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2015-01-29T19:31:45Z otwieracz: http://paste.lisp.org/display/145458#2
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2015-01-29T19:32:30Z otwieracz: And I've got interesting observations.
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2015-01-29T19:32:39Z otwieracz: using slime completion, I see:
2015-01-29T19:32:42Z otwieracz: :scharr
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2015-01-29T19:32:45Z otwieracz: :max-sobel-ksize
2015-01-29T19:32:48Z otwieracz: *but*
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2015-01-29T19:33:00Z otwieracz: :clockwis (not clockwise(
2015-01-29T19:33:00Z otwieracz: )
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2015-01-29T19:33:45Z otwieracz: :cv-counter-clockwise
2015-01-29T19:33:58Z otwieracz: and :additional-valu (not additional-value)
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2015-01-29T19:34:22Z nyef: Something definitely rather odd going on there.
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2015-01-29T19:34:40Z nyef: Time for you to dig into the code and see how it functions.
2015-01-29T19:35:02Z otwieracz: When I replaced "name": "CV_CLOCKWISE" with "CV_CLOCKWISE2" now :clockwise2 is interned.
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2015-01-29T19:35:13Z otwieracz: Something is eating characters!
2015-01-29T19:35:25Z otwieracz: Poor characters :(
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2015-01-29T19:35:39Z otwieracz: Btw, Xach - quicklisp's version of cl-autowrap is recent>
2015-01-29T19:35:41Z otwieracz: s/>/?/
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2015-01-29T19:40:30Z otwieracz: OK, what's more - with "CV_CLOCKWISE2" compilation passes.
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2015-01-29T19:41:49Z otwieracz: Ooooops.
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2015-01-29T19:42:43Z otwieracz: I'm afraid that quicklisp's version of cl-autowrap is a bit outdated :)
2015-01-29T19:43:40Z antoszka: otwieracz: Put a newer one into your quicklisp/local-projects for now then.
2015-01-29T19:44:04Z otwieracz: Yep, that's what I've done already.
2015-01-29T19:44:18Z antoszka: otwieracz: Does the newer one work better for you?
2015-01-29T19:44:33Z otwieracz: Looks like.
2015-01-29T19:44:51Z otwieracz: I have to make new package because of conflicting symbols.
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2015-01-29T19:47:51Z otwieracz: Huh
2015-01-29T19:47:54Z otwieracz: But there's something weird.,
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2015-01-29T19:49:07Z otwieracz: Ah, ok.
2015-01-29T19:49:26Z eudoxia fixed his problem with libyaml bindings, he defined size_t as :unsigned-int instead of :unsigned-long
2015-01-29T19:49:27Z otwieracz: It's loading…
2015-01-29T19:49:30Z otwieracz: and loading…
2015-01-29T19:49:33Z eudoxia: the joys of C
2015-01-29T19:49:47Z otwieracz: And tons of quicklisp's dots :)
2015-01-29T19:50:09Z otwieracz: Oh my god, my (eventual) opencv app will be loading for hours? :)
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2015-01-29T19:50:37Z otwieracz: https://what-if.xkcd.com/35/ ← this box is my laptop right now ;)
2015-01-29T19:51:00Z otwieracz: Whoah, it loaded.
2015-01-29T19:51:28Z otwieracz: Total of 409 compile-time skipped definitions
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2015-01-29T20:03:15Z otwieracz: I am trying to create named window now:
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2015-01-29T20:03:29Z otwieracz: (cv-named-window "foo" 1)
2015-01-29T20:03:44Z otwieracz: (just like namedWindow("foo", CV_WINDOW_AUTOSIZE);)
2015-01-29T20:04:02Z otwieracz: But I'm getting error:
2015-01-29T20:04:03Z otwieracz: window-autosize
2015-01-29T20:04:05Z otwieracz: argh
2015-01-29T20:04:13Z otwieracz: The alien function "cvNamedWindow" is undefined. [Condition of type SB-KERNEL::UNDEFINED-ALIEN-FUNCTION-ERROR]
2015-01-29T20:04:37Z eudoxia: you don't have the library loaded
2015-01-29T20:05:08Z otwieracz: c-include do not do this for me?
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2015-01-29T20:07:01Z eudoxia: otwieracz: i've never used the groveller, but c-include, i think, just includes a c file
2015-01-29T20:07:07Z eudoxia: otwieracz: see http://common-lisp.net/project/cffi/manual/cffi-manual.html#Tutorial_002dLoading for loading the *.so files
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2015-01-29T20:09:17Z jasom: slime on sbcl, I have a backtrace, is it possible to get the line-number we are at for one of the stack frames (this function calls the child function multiple times)
2015-01-29T20:09:50Z otwieracz: Not sure if it's possible.
2015-01-29T20:09:58Z otwieracz: But I am not the most experienced one ;)
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2015-01-29T20:10:13Z nyef_: jasom: Move the cursor to that frame and hit 'v', see if that does anything useful?
2015-01-29T20:10:24Z jsnell: also compile the function with at least (debug 2)
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2015-01-29T20:16:27Z JokesOnYou77: jasom, Is this in emacs?
2015-01-29T20:16:40Z JokesOnYou77: Ah, nyef beat me to it
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2015-01-29T20:17:32Z nyef_: JokesOnYou77: slime implies emacs, usually.
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2015-01-29T20:18:42Z JokesOnYou77: Good point.
2015-01-29T20:19:12Z JokesOnYou77: I originally learned about that command here actually
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2015-01-29T20:19:21Z Bicyclidine: superior lisp interaction mode for some entity
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2015-01-29T20:29:55Z jasom: nyef_: thanks
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2015-01-29T20:35:59Z jasom: slime always means emacs, right? swank might be using something else...
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2015-01-29T20:39:16Z jasom: ooh, I just had an evil thought; if I made elisp bindings for neovim, then you could actually use slime from neovim...
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2015-01-29T21:02:02Z otwieracz: OK, another question.
2015-01-29T21:02:11Z otwieracz: There's "namedWindow" function in OpenCV.
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2015-01-29T21:03:03Z otwieracz: Oh god
2015-01-29T21:03:06Z otwieracz: It works :D
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2015-01-29T21:03:50Z drmeister: Finally, a decent "No primary method" error message:
2015-01-29T21:03:55Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/sgFzh2J8
2015-01-29T21:04:01Z drmeister: In yo face ECL
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2015-01-29T21:06:17Z drmeister: I say that because I inherited a lousy error message from ECL and it cost me the day to fix
2015-01-29T21:08:51Z nyef: drmeister: Congratulations.
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2015-01-29T21:12:25Z Ralt: hi
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2015-01-29T21:13:19Z Ralt: just in case someone is interested in using LXCs in the same way I do: https://github.com/Ralt/lxc-wrapper
2015-01-29T21:15:02Z otwieracz: Is there any legit way to export all symbols?
2015-01-29T21:18:08Z eudoxia: otwieracz: you mean, automatically genereating wrappers for all C functions?
2015-01-29T21:18:35Z otwieracz: No, no.
2015-01-29T21:18:42Z otwieracz: Just export all symbols from package
2015-01-29T21:18:54Z eudoxia: ohhh, i thought you meant symbols on an object file
2015-01-29T21:19:01Z eudoxia: no and you probably don't want to do that
2015-01-29T21:19:03Z Shinmera: You usually don't want that.
2015-01-29T21:19:13Z eudoxia: exporting all symbols would export things like, argument names, which should not be exported
2015-01-29T21:19:19Z Shinmera: There is a way of course, but it'll export loads of symbols you don't want that you use in your code.
2015-01-29T21:19:29Z eudoxia: exported symbols should be function names, class names, slot names, that sort of stuff
2015-01-29T21:19:31Z eudoxia: variable names
2015-01-29T21:21:25Z otwieracz: Yes, but I see that autowrap is actually exporting everythinh.
2015-01-29T21:21:50Z eudoxia: hm that's a problem
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2015-01-29T21:36:18Z vanila: so I'm a bit stuck trying to build my own lispos
2015-01-29T21:36:30Z vanila: i mean my copy of mezzano
2015-01-29T21:36:52Z fe[nl]ix: careful not to hit your thumb
2015-01-29T21:36:53Z vanila: i can boot into a blank screen thankt to the latest bugfix, but I'm not seeing any TCP connection to copy the files into it
2015-01-29T21:37:56Z vanila: a bit lost on what ip address to use and if there's any special VM settings you need other than virtio-net? also I'm  not sure if it's even getting as far as that
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2015-01-29T21:54:41Z oGMo: otwieracz: typically everything exported is necessary somehow (function names, type names, constants) .. you can avoid conflicts by exporting from a pristine package that does not use anything
2015-01-29T21:55:30Z oGMo: otwieracz: feel free to file an issue if you need to work through a particular case
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2015-01-29T22:59:42Z otwieracz: oGMo: I am a bit confused with location of spec file.
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2015-01-29T23:01:14Z oGMo: otwieracz: ?
2015-01-29T23:02:05Z otwieracz: http://paste.lisp.org/display/145463 things like that.
2015-01-29T23:02:10Z otwieracz: I mean, I know the source of problem.
2015-01-29T23:02:23Z otwieracz: CL-USER> *default-pathname-defaults*
2015-01-29T23:02:24Z otwieracz: #P"//"
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2015-01-29T23:02:38Z otwieracz: But how this should be done *right*?
2015-01-29T23:02:44Z otwieracz: Where to put this spec file
2015-01-29T23:03:42Z oGMo: otwieracz: https://github.com/rpav/ZMQ4L .. this is a decent/simple example of how to do things; i recommend making an entry for it in your asdf, and using that (see zmq4l.asd and src/autowrap.lisp)
2015-01-29T23:04:42Z otwieracz:  :spec-path '(zmq4l autospec) – I do not understand this.
2015-01-29T23:05:32Z oGMo: it's an "asdf path", the system name (zmq4l) and the module name (autospec)
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2015-01-29T23:06:34Z otwieracz: Huh.
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2015-01-29T23:06:55Z oGMo: i say "asdf path" in quotes because it's not really an official concept per se, but makes these things easy
2015-01-29T23:07:19Z otwieracz: Can I see what it generates?
2015-01-29T23:07:24Z otwieracz: What will be the effective path?
2015-01-29T23:07:47Z oGMo: whatever the path for the system and module are
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2015-01-29T23:08:17Z oGMo: see autowrap::asdf-path
2015-01-29T23:10:43Z otwieracz: Ok, I look at the .asd and I get it a bit right now.
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2015-01-29T23:13:43Z pillton: Xach: Thanks for the regular posts on Quicklisp. I find them useful.
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2015-01-29T23:25:44Z Xach: pillton: glad to hear it
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