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Best for a learner -- CL? Racket? Something else? Or perhaps a Scheme? 2015-01-27T01:19:03Z zRecursi`: that depends 2015-01-27T01:19:35Z dielli_: zRecursi`: On? 2015-01-27T01:19:50Z k-dawg joined #lisp 2015-01-27T01:20:03Z |3b|: this channel is mostly about CL, so we would tend to advice CL :) 2015-01-27T01:20:52Z |3b|: if you have some specific reason to prefer a scheme (like learning from a book that uses scheme, or for a class that does, etc), #scheme could probably suggest a specific one 2015-01-27T01:21:20Z dielli_: Gnu CL? |3b| 2015-01-27T01:21:42Z dielli_: I'm interested in *learning* for now, and not to accomplish any particular task. 2015-01-27T01:22:26Z |3b|: any CL implementation should be OK for learning, though the GNU implementations are less popular (in particular GCL has had a history of not being filly compliant with the spec, though that may have improved recently) 2015-01-27T01:22:45Z |3b|: are you trying to learn anything specific? 2015-01-27T01:23:12Z |3b| mostly uses SBCL or CCL 2015-01-27T01:24:54Z dielli_: And I assume eLisp + cl is not advised. 2015-01-27T01:25:14Z |3b|: depends on what you mean by "elisp + cl" 2015-01-27T01:25:30Z dielli_: elisp with its Common Lisp package. 2015-01-27T01:25:53Z |3b|: if you want to program emacs, that might be nicer than elisp without it 2015-01-27T01:25:59Z |3b|: if you want to learn CL, use a real Cl 2015-01-27T01:26:31Z intinig quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-01-27T01:26:34Z dielli_: No interest in programming emacs. It just happens to be handy. 2015-01-27T01:26:54Z dielli_: I.e. close to hand. 2015-01-27T01:27:25Z spacebat`: emacs is a popular environment for lisp programmers 2015-01-27T01:27:30Z |3b|: you probably want emacs+slime for interacting with whichever CL implementation you choose though (slime is more or less a CL IDE, running in emacs) 2015-01-27T01:27:34Z spacebat`: as such, elisp isn't such a bad place to start 2015-01-27T01:27:57Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T01:28:01Z BitPuffin joined #lisp 2015-01-27T01:28:55Z agumonkey quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) 2015-01-27T01:30:10Z agumonkey joined #lisp 2015-01-27T01:30:24Z dielli_: slime, eh? Okay. 2015-01-27T01:34:20Z edgar-rft joined #lisp 2015-01-27T01:35:40Z vdamewood joined #lisp 2015-01-27T01:36:46Z Blaguvest quit 2015-01-27T01:41:03Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-01-27T01:45:22Z SpikeMaster joined #lisp 2015-01-27T01:46:36Z Sgeo_ joined #lisp 2015-01-27T01:48:13Z SpikeMaster left #lisp 2015-01-27T01:49:22Z Sgeo quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-01-27T01:51:13Z dielli_: Many thanks! BL! 2015-01-27T01:56:30Z dielli_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-01-27T01:57:47Z Longlius joined #lisp 2015-01-27T02:02:58Z leo2007 joined #lisp 2015-01-27T02:03:18Z dmiles_afk quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-27T02:03:23Z dmiles_afk joined #lisp 2015-01-27T02:07:28Z hiyosi quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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2015-01-27T03:54:28Z jonh left #lisp 2015-01-27T03:55:52Z scymtym joined #lisp 2015-01-27T03:58:16Z Bike: Does "constant form" include objects with weird make-load-form methods? 2015-01-27T03:58:17Z krfantasy1 quit (Quit: krfantasy1) 2015-01-27T03:58:33Z krfantasy joined #lisp 2015-01-27T03:58:34Z theseb joined #lisp 2015-01-27T03:58:35Z beach: Hmm, I don't know. 2015-01-27T03:58:46Z beach: I take it the answer depends on that. 2015-01-27T03:58:52Z nyef: Hello beach. 2015-01-27T03:59:03Z beach: Bike: For now, let's say "no". 2015-01-27T03:59:14Z Bike: i can't think of anything, then. 2015-01-27T03:59:28Z beach: Of any discrepancy between the two? 2015-01-27T03:59:28Z Amaan quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2015-01-27T03:59:59Z Bike: yeah. shouldn't matter when a constant form is evaluated. i think. 2015-01-27T04:00:13Z beach: Right. 2015-01-27T04:00:42Z nyef: So long as the constant actually IS the same between compile and load times. 2015-01-27T04:00:54Z beach: Right. 2015-01-27T04:01:57Z zacharias_ joined #lisp 2015-01-27T04:02:13Z beach: So I think the next step in my chain of HIR transformation will be that, turn constants into LOAD-TIME-VALUE forms. I already got rid of captured variables. 2015-01-27T04:02:40Z Bike: You can't dump constants to fasls...? or, i suppose those could sort of be considered the same operation. 2015-01-27T04:03:35Z beach: At this stage of processing I am not distinguishing between the file compiler and the in-core compiler. 2015-01-27T04:03:41Z beach: That will be the next step. 2015-01-27T04:04:05Z beach: ... or rather, I am trying to do as much processing as possible without distinguishing between them. 2015-01-27T04:04:16Z beach: Hence my question about constants and LOAD-TIME-VALUE. 2015-01-27T04:04:57Z beach: Next, I need to "ask" the implementation how to transform LOAD-TIME-VALUE, and I think that operation will have to take into account which compiler it is. 2015-01-27T04:05:23Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-01-27T04:08:21Z BitPuffin joined #lisp 2015-01-27T04:09:17Z beach: Nobody is contradicting me which I take to mean that either 1. You have no idea what I am talking about, 2. You agree, or 3. You don't care. :) 2015-01-27T04:10:03Z bcoburn quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-01-27T04:10:24Z Adlai` joined #lisp 2015-01-27T04:10:26Z Bike: little from column b, little from column c 2015-01-27T04:10:34Z Bike: and, honestly, a lot from column a 2015-01-27T04:10:55Z beach: Heh. Thanks! 2015-01-27T04:10:58Z bcoburn joined #lisp 2015-01-27T04:12:17Z Adlai quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-01-27T04:12:38Z krfantasy quit (Quit: krfantasy) 2015-01-27T04:12:47Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-27T04:15:44Z JokesOnYou77 joined #lisp 2015-01-27T04:18:29Z ikki joined #lisp 2015-01-27T04:19:18Z Sgeo joined #lisp 2015-01-27T04:20:06Z ryankarason joined #lisp 2015-01-27T04:23:22Z ikki quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-01-27T04:23:26Z profess quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-01-27T04:23:33Z beach: So, I start with something like this: http://metamodular.com/HIR-Examples/example5.png in which hexagons are variables with dynamic extent, and ellipses are lexical variables that have not been classified yet. 2015-01-27T04:23:43Z beach: The ellipses are processed so that they either become hexagons, or they turn into operations on CELLS to hold captured variables, and the cells themselves are kept in hexagons. 2015-01-27T04:23:46Z beach: The next step is to get rid of the constants and of the FDEFINITION instructions in favor of some implementation-specific way of handling them. 2015-01-27T04:25:13Z beach: Actually, I think I modified the FDEFINITION instruction so that it always takes a constant input. That will simplify things a bit. 2015-01-27T04:25:46Z beach: I will ask the implementation to replace FDEFINITION first, and then turn the remaining constants into LOAD-TIME-VALUE. 2015-01-27T04:26:48Z JokesOnYou77: Hi all. Can I create a function to define a function for every symbol or string in a list? 2015-01-27T04:27:20Z beach: JokesOnYou77: Do you mean that the list contains names of functions? 2015-01-27T04:28:30Z bcoburn quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-01-27T04:29:02Z JokesOnYou77: beach, I want to defun functions with those names. e.g. I have ("a" "b" "c") and I'd like (defun a (princ "a")) ... 2015-01-27T04:29:15Z beach: JokesOnYou77: If the names are symbols: (loop for symbol in list for i from 0 do (setf (fdefinition symbol) (constantly i))) 2015-01-27T04:29:44Z k-dawg quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2015-01-27T04:29:55Z beach: JokesOnYou77: (loop for symbol in list for i from 0 do (setf (fdefinition symbol) (compile nil `(lambda () (princ ,symbol))))) 2015-01-27T04:29:59Z beach: Something like that. 2015-01-27T04:30:17Z beach: Forget about the FOR I FROM 2015-01-27T04:30:25Z JokesOnYou77: constantly? 2015-01-27T04:30:27Z beach: JokesOnYou77: (loop for symbol in list do (setf (fdefinition symbol) (compile nil `(lambda () (princ ,symbol))))) 2015-01-27T04:30:43Z Bike: clhs constantly 2015-01-27T04:30:43Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_cons_1.htm 2015-01-27T04:30:51Z beach: JokesOnYou77: I just invented a function because you hadn't told us what function you wanted to define. 2015-01-27T04:30:58Z bcoburn joined #lisp 2015-01-27T04:31:21Z beach: Make that (princ ',symbol) 2015-01-27T04:31:22Z zeitue joined #lisp 2015-01-27T04:31:46Z JokesOnYou77: Actual function: (defun A (&rest tokens) (phrase tokens)) 2015-01-27T04:31:57Z beach: Whatever. You get the idea. 2015-01-27T04:32:10Z beach: If you have a string, you will have to turn it into a symbol first. 2015-01-27T04:32:23Z bgs100 quit (Quit: bgs100) 2015-01-27T04:34:37Z JokesOnYou77: I can hard code the list. I just don't want to write defun for all of the functions :P 2015-01-27T04:35:44Z beach: JokesOnYou77: Then (loop for symbol in list collect (compile nil `(lambda () (princ ',symbol)))) 2015-01-27T04:35:54Z beach: That way you will have a list of functions. 2015-01-27T04:36:48Z JokesOnYou77: How can I have them be defined in the global scope? 2015-01-27T04:37:05Z JokesOnYou77: Also, thank you. Haven't said it yet but this is really helpful 2015-01-27T04:37:11Z beach: "global scope"? 2015-01-27T04:37:27Z drmeister: Hi beach I'm playing with HIR - do you have some time for questions. 2015-01-27T04:37:37Z beach: drmeister: I do, yes. 2015-01-27T04:37:56Z beach: drmeister: Look in hir-transformations.lisp. 2015-01-27T04:38:01Z Oddity joined #lisp 2015-01-27T04:38:02Z JokesOnYou77: Functions defined and accessible in the scope of the file I'm working in. 2015-01-27T04:38:08Z drmeister: I'm figuring out how to get images up 2015-01-27T04:38:11Z beach: drmeister: Those are the transformation that apply so far. 2015-01-27T04:38:24Z nyef: (macrolet ((foo (&rest symbols) `(progn ,@(loop for symbol on symbols collect `(defun ,symbol (&rest tokens) ...))))) (foo a ...)) ? 2015-01-27T04:38:43Z nyef: JokesOnYou77: Something like that, at least. 2015-01-27T04:39:01Z JokesOnYou77: O.o I am still a macro noob 2015-01-27T04:39:16Z beach: drmeister: Like I just said, next, I will turn constants into LOAD-TIME-VALUE. 2015-01-27T04:39:45Z nyef: JokesOnYou77: The next level of that stunt, beyond using MACROLET, is #.`(progn ,@(loop for symbol in '(...) collect `(defun ...))) 2015-01-27T04:40:02Z beach: drmeister: You need to get rid of the FDEFINITION instructions first, then you have to turn LOAD-TIME-VALUE into something that suits your implementation. 2015-01-27T04:40:46Z JokesOnYou77: nyef, O.O 2015-01-27T04:41:00Z beach: nyef: Thanks for taking over. 2015-01-27T04:41:01Z drmeister: beach: That's what I do, essentially turn constants into load-time-values 2015-01-27T04:41:10Z drmeister: http://imgur.com/Z2LnAM7 2015-01-27T04:41:32Z drmeister: (hir-form '(core:*fset 'a (lambda (x y) (+ x y)))) 2015-01-27T04:41:56Z drmeister: If it's not obvious I'm defining a function. 2015-01-27T04:41:57Z beach: drmeister: Looks good. 2015-01-27T04:42:00Z freehck quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-01-27T04:42:19Z beach: drmeister: Next, you need to run HIR-TRANSFORMATIONS. 2015-01-27T04:42:31Z drmeister: What are the differences between the yellow ellipse variables and the yellow hexagon variables? 2015-01-27T04:43:01Z beach: drmeister: Hexagons are known to be dynamic extent. Ellipses have not been classified yet. 2015-01-27T04:43:05Z JokesOnYou77: nyef, Can you cover that for me one more time, all together? 2015-01-27T04:43:09Z drmeister: hit-transformations will optimize the HIR? 2015-01-27T04:43:23Z beach: drmeister: The last transformation of HIR-TRANSFORMATIONS will remove the ellipses. 2015-01-27T04:43:34Z drmeister: Looking... 2015-01-27T04:43:59Z beach: It will either turn them into hexagons, or it will turn them into CELLS which are then contained in hexagons. 2015-01-27T04:45:02Z drmeister: So (asdf:load-system :cleavir-hir-transformations) 2015-01-27T04:45:48Z nyef: JokesOnYou77: What, that wasn't enough for you to go on? 2015-01-27T04:46:23Z beach: Correct. And then (hir-transformations initial-instruction implementation processor os) where the last three arguments are not interpreted at the moment. 2015-01-27T04:46:48Z drmeister: And it will return a new HIR instruction/tree 2015-01-27T04:47:02Z beach: No, it will modify in place the one you gave it. 2015-01-27T04:47:09Z drmeister: Ok. 2015-01-27T04:47:41Z bcoburn quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-01-27T04:47:43Z beach: In this example, all variables have dynamic extent, so every variable should turn into a hexagon. 2015-01-27T04:48:54Z JokesOnYou77: nyef, I got it. I'm just not used to macro syntax. 2015-01-27T04:48:58Z drmeister: No applicable method for CLEAVIR-HIR-TRANSFORMATIONS::INTRODUCE-IMMEDIATE with arguments of types 2015-01-27T04:49:15Z beach: drmeister: Oh, sorry. 2015-01-27T04:49:28Z drmeister: No problem, it's never a problem. 2015-01-27T04:49:30Z beach: You do need to provide a method for introduce-immediate 2015-01-27T04:49:46Z drmeister: What should it look like? 2015-01-27T04:49:56Z beach: It's like the environment. Anything you like. 2015-01-27T04:50:07Z beach: Your method has to dispatch on it. 2015-01-27T04:50:29Z beach: drmeister: Hold on a second. I need to look. I forget how it works... 2015-01-27T04:50:49Z frkout quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T04:51:14Z beach: drmeister: Check the comment in introduce-immediates.lisp 2015-01-27T04:51:16Z frkout joined #lisp 2015-01-27T04:52:39Z beach: drmeister: The usual rule for CLOS programs applies. Your method must specialize on at least one of the last three arguments and it must be your own class. 2015-01-27T04:53:27Z beach: drmeister: Cleavir can't decide what is a possible immediate value for your processor, so I had to "ask the implementation". 2015-01-27T04:54:05Z beach: drmeister: This place is where you turn small integers into fixnums and characters into tagged Unicode values. 2015-01-27T04:54:13Z enitiz quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-01-27T04:54:14Z drmeister: So what is the class I'm dispatching on again? 2015-01-27T04:54:29Z beach: (defclass clasp () ()) 2015-01-27T04:55:19Z beach: (defmethod introduce-immediate (constant (implementation clasp) processor os) (if ... (..) constant)) 2015-01-27T04:56:00Z drmeister: So just this? 2015-01-27T04:56:14Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/AJ5dIMrd 2015-01-27T04:56:27Z fragamus joined #lisp 2015-01-27T04:56:29Z beach: The "..." means "check whether this constant has a representation as an immediate integer", and ".." means "return that integer". 2015-01-27T04:56:56Z drmeister: I see 2015-01-27T04:57:40Z beach: You must respect the signature of introduce-immediate of course. 2015-01-27T04:57:52Z joneshf-laptop joined #lisp 2015-01-27T04:57:58Z psy_ joined #lisp 2015-01-27T04:57:59Z agumonkey quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) 2015-01-27T04:57:59Z JokesOnYou77: nyef, actually, I don't get it. I've never defined my own macro before. Can I get a quick explanation of what's going on and how I use what it produces? (srry :/ ) 2015-01-27T04:58:07Z robot-beethoven quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T04:58:12Z Harag joined #lisp 2015-01-27T04:58:13Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/Zu7w3aoj 2015-01-27T04:58:13Z nyef: JokesOnYou77: Which version? 2015-01-27T04:58:21Z robot-beethoven joined #lisp 2015-01-27T04:58:41Z beach: drmeister: That's fine but you don't typically want to do that. 2015-01-27T04:59:05Z beach: drmeister: You would want to turn small integers into fixnums. 2015-01-27T04:59:11Z agumonkey joined #lisp 2015-01-27T05:00:28Z beach: drmeister: (if (and (typep (...:value constant) 'integer) (< (abs (...:value constant)) 256)) (* 2 (...:value constant)) constant) 2015-01-27T05:00:52Z nyef: JokesOnYou77: From what I understand, you have a list of symbols, and for each symbol A you want to define a function (defun A (&rest tokens) (phrase tokens)), is that right? 2015-01-27T05:01:08Z JokesOnYou77: nyef, I think the second combines the functionality of both, so that one? 2015-01-27T05:01:09Z beach: drmeister: That's an example of an implementation that represents fixnums as immediates with twice the value. SBCL for instance. 2015-01-27T05:01:15Z JokesOnYou77: nyef, yes 2015-01-27T05:01:56Z nyef: And this is more a notional list than (defparameter *list-of-symbols* '(a ...)) ? 2015-01-27T05:02:04Z drmeister: I don't represent fixnums as immediates at the moment. 2015-01-27T05:02:16Z beach: OK. 2015-01-27T05:02:24Z beach: I suppose your method will do then. 2015-01-27T05:02:34Z drmeister: It's coded into my pointers but I don't use it yet. 2015-01-27T05:02:43Z beach: I am beginning to see why Clasp is not so fast :) 2015-01-27T05:03:08Z drmeister: There would be a lot of C++ code to change carefully to switch to immediate/tagged fixnums 2015-01-27T05:03:14Z JokesOnYou77: nyef, in this case I can simply hard code the list as (defparameter *func-syms* '(a b c d)) 2015-01-27T05:03:32Z nyef: We can skip that for the moment. 2015-01-27T05:03:51Z nyef: The first step is to figure out what the end functions should look like, which we did. 2015-01-27T05:04:08Z JokesOnYou77: yes 2015-01-27T05:04:13Z beach: drmeister: Once you have supplied that method, you should be able to call HIR-TRANSFORMATIONS with *clasp* as the second argument. 2015-01-27T05:04:36Z nyef: Next we want an expression that will PRODUCE that definition, so (let ((symbol 'a)) `(defun ,symbol (&rest tokens) (phrase tokens))) 2015-01-27T05:05:06Z nyef: Enter that at the REPL, and it should spit a function definition back at you. 2015-01-27T05:05:27Z bcoburn joined #lisp 2015-01-27T05:06:30Z pjb: JokesOnYou77: the question you should ask yourself, is whether you want to have those functions defined at compilation time or at runtime. 2015-01-27T05:06:36Z nyef: Now we go one step further, and produce a PROGN containing ALL of the function definitions required. So `(progn ,@(loop for symbol in '(a b c d) collect `(defun ...))) 2015-01-27T05:06:51Z pjb: JokesOnYou77: if at compilation, then you'd write a macro to generate them : (generate-my-functions a b c d). 2015-01-27T05:07:02Z beach: nyef: Very pedagogical of you. 2015-01-27T05:07:04Z pjb: If at run-time, then you can do whatever you want. 2015-01-27T05:07:09Z nyef: beach: Thank you. 2015-01-27T05:07:13Z nyef: (-: 2015-01-27T05:07:38Z beach: nyef: I don't think I have ever seen this aspect of you before. :) 2015-01-27T05:07:55Z JokesOnYou77: nyef, this is exactly what I needed. I've seen , and ` enough to get what's going on. What is @ doing? 2015-01-27T05:08:06Z nyef: clhs ,@ 2015-01-27T05:08:06Z specbot: Couldn't find anything for ,@. 2015-01-27T05:08:09Z nyef: Hrm. 2015-01-27T05:08:23Z JokesOnYou77: (rofl) 2015-01-27T05:08:25Z nyef: It's for splicing in a list rather than a single value. 2015-01-27T05:08:33Z JokesOnYou77: MAP? 2015-01-27T05:08:42Z JokesOnYou77: clhs map 2015-01-27T05:08:42Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_map.htm 2015-01-27T05:08:46Z JokesOnYou77: :) 2015-01-27T05:08:57Z beach: drmeister: Did you faint? 2015-01-27T05:09:02Z JokesOnYou77: Wait, splicing, like copying? 2015-01-27T05:09:05Z BitPuffin joined #lisp 2015-01-27T05:09:16Z nyef: Compare (let ((foo '(1 2 3))) `(bar ,foo baz)) with (let ((foo '(1 2 3))) `(bar ,@foo baz)). 2015-01-27T05:09:21Z drmeister: Almost: I got this error and then shut everything down, started it up again and got it again 2015-01-27T05:09:25Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/rVJZAGqb 2015-01-27T05:09:34Z beach: nyef: That is exactly the example I would have given. 2015-01-27T05:09:57Z fsvehla quit (Quit: fsvehla) 2015-01-27T05:10:01Z drmeister: It's one of those something, something, something errors 2015-01-27T05:10:01Z beach: drmeister: That looks bad. 2015-01-27T05:10:15Z nyef: beach: I sometimes go into this level of detail in my own notes. 2015-01-27T05:10:37Z beach: nyef: I believe you. It is just that I don't think I have seen it before. 2015-01-27T05:10:57Z beach: nyef: Maybe you are not typically the one helping newbies. 2015-01-27T05:10:59Z JokesOnYou77: pjb, this is still working on the readtable that oyu helped me with btw. My hope is that this will eventually become an opensource project for parsing the output of the Stanford constituency parser into the format necessary for training the Stanford Recurrent Neural Network for Sentiment Classification. 2015-01-27T05:11:04Z drmeister: Hmm, it's an assertion being thrown in cleavir-ir:inputs 2015-01-27T05:11:18Z ehaliewicz joined #lisp 2015-01-27T05:11:23Z nyef: beach: I often don't have the patience for it. 2015-01-27T05:11:41Z beach: drmeister: Yes, I see that. But the argument to EVERY seems wrong. 2015-01-27T05:12:00Z cluck quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T05:12:00Z nyef: JokesOnYou77: So, where were we? 2015-01-27T05:12:34Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-01-27T05:12:36Z JokesOnYou77: nyef, I get ,@ the REPL is the source of all wisdom 2015-01-27T05:12:48Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/7CpClWCD 2015-01-27T05:12:53Z JokesOnYou77: *empirical knowledge 2015-01-27T05:13:00Z drmeister: They shouldn't all be nil I guess 2015-01-27T05:13:07Z nyef: Okay, so we left off with a form that produces a PROGN containing the DEFUNs that you want, right? 2015-01-27T05:13:21Z JokesOnYou77: nyef, yes 2015-01-27T05:13:24Z beach: drmeister: I think it should be this: (assert (every (lambda (input) (typep input 'datum)) new-inputs)) 2015-01-27T05:13:25Z nyef: And the next step is to arrange that the compiler sees that PROGN as input rather than the form that creates it. 2015-01-27T05:13:50Z nyef: And there are a couple of ways to do so. The more common is to use MACROLET. 2015-01-27T05:13:55Z drmeister: Yes, that is what is failing: (assert (every (lambda (input) (typep input 'datum)) new-inputs)) 2015-01-27T05:14:21Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-01-27T05:14:38Z drmeister: nil is not (typep nil 'datum)? 2015-01-27T05:14:46Z beach: drmeister: Do you have a backtrace? 2015-01-27T05:14:50Z nyef: (macrolet ((foo (&rest symbols) `(progn ,@(loop for symbol in symbols collect ...)))) (foo a b c d)) 2015-01-27T05:14:56Z drmeister: Yes, a slime backtrace 2015-01-27T05:15:00Z nyef: The other is to do the expansion at READ time, with #. 2015-01-27T05:15:02Z nyef: clhs #. 2015-01-27T05:15:02Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhf.htm 2015-01-27T05:15:07Z beach: drmeister: Let's see it. 2015-01-27T05:15:27Z drmeister: Here's the interesting bits: 2015-01-27T05:15:33Z nyef: It's a little more opaque, though, so most people would either go with the MACROLET or even a full DEFMACRO. 2015-01-27T05:15:33Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/KA3dEONj 2015-01-27T05:15:54Z nyef: (Partly depending on if they expect to want to perform such expansion more than once.) 2015-01-27T05:15:59Z Adlai` quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-01-27T05:16:32Z JokesOnYou77: nyef, what's the difference? And what scope are the resulting funcitons defined in? The hyperspec looks like it defines MACROLET with LABELS which puts things in a local scope 2015-01-27T05:16:32Z beach: drmeister: Hold on... 2015-01-27T05:17:48Z pnpuff joined #lisp 2015-01-27T05:18:04Z beach: drmeister: Found the problem. 2015-01-27T05:18:22Z pnpuff left #lisp 2015-01-27T05:18:24Z nyef: JokesOnYou77: The macro-function produced by MACROLET has lexical scope, yes. But the resulting form is used in place of the macro invocation, so appears at whatever scope the MACROLET itself appeared in. 2015-01-27T05:18:48Z quazimodo: hullo 2015-01-27T05:19:22Z drmeister: Great 2015-01-27T05:19:33Z beach: Hello quazimodo. 2015-01-27T05:19:38Z beach: drmeister: I must not have tested this code. 2015-01-27T05:19:41Z nyef: Using #. causes the substitution to be done at READ time, so the evaluator / compiler only really sees the expanded form, not the forms that do the expansion... Sort-of. 2015-01-27T05:19:51Z drmeister: Do you need more time? 2015-01-27T05:19:57Z beach: no 2015-01-27T05:20:12Z beach: drmeister: You can either get the new version of introduce-immediates, or you can temporarily return INPUT in the ELSE branch of the IF. 2015-01-27T05:20:31Z beach: Currently, there is no ELSE branch, so it returns NIL, hence the error. 2015-01-27T05:21:38Z drmeister: Which if? My introduce-intermediates reads as follows 2015-01-27T05:21:44Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/3r47vfTG 2015-01-27T05:21:47Z Adlai` joined #lisp 2015-01-27T05:22:01Z gingerale joined #lisp 2015-01-27T05:22:15Z beach: drmeister: (if (typep input ...) ...) should be (if (typep input ...) ... input) 2015-01-27T05:22:51Z beach: drmeister: In introduce-immediates.lisp 2015-01-27T05:23:00Z ryankara1on joined #lisp 2015-01-27T05:23:08Z drmeister: Ah 2015-01-27T05:23:13Z drmeister: Hang on - I'll grab yours 2015-01-27T05:23:16Z beach: I pushed it already. 2015-01-27T05:23:18Z beach: Yeah. 2015-01-27T05:24:22Z JokesOnYou77: nyef, ok, this is awesome. So all of these functions can just pop out of the macrolet at runtime as legit functions and then I can use them? This is amazing. This is why I love lisp! 2015-01-27T05:24:58Z nyef: No, they pop out at compile-time, so the compiler will see them when it processes your source file. 2015-01-27T05:24:59Z beach: nyef: I think this exercise in pedagogy will be enough for you for a few months to come. :) 2015-01-27T05:25:41Z nyef: beach: Very probably. 2015-01-27T05:25:56Z beach: It's exhausting. 2015-01-27T05:25:58Z ryankara1on quit (Client Quit) 2015-01-27T05:26:13Z beach: One hopes it's a good investment. 2015-01-27T05:26:16Z nyef: Especially given that it's almost half past midnight, and I'm trying to finish up a commit message before I turn the lights out. 2015-01-27T05:26:27Z drmeister: beach: Ok. 2015-01-27T05:26:49Z beach: drmeister: So how far did you get? 2015-01-27T05:27:10Z beach: drmeister: Sorry, I was talking to nyef while waiting for you. 2015-01-27T05:27:29Z JokesOnYou77: nyef, you are amazing. Sorry for keeping you up. And thank you so much: (macrolet ((foo (&rest symbols) #.`(progn ,@(loop for symbol on symbols collect `(defun ,symbol (&rest tokens) (format nil "~A" token)))))) (foo a ...)) 2015-01-27T05:27:38Z drmeister: beach: It's fine - it ran and generated HIR - I generated a graph and uploaded it to imgur 2015-01-27T05:27:39Z drmeister: http://imgur.com/O1qeAtY 2015-01-27T05:27:57Z beach: drmeister: All hexagons. Great! 2015-01-27T05:28:06Z nyef: JokesOnYou77: Umm... No, you shouldn't need the #. if you're using the macrolet. 2015-01-27T05:28:10Z drmeister: No more tricksy ellipses 2015-01-27T05:28:17Z beach: Exactly. 2015-01-27T05:28:17Z nyef: In fact, the #. will break it. 2015-01-27T05:28:20Z drmeister: Nasty ellipses 2015-01-27T05:28:23Z drmeister: Ok. 2015-01-27T05:28:31Z drmeister: So the hexagons have dynamic extent? 2015-01-27T05:28:35Z beach: Yes. 2015-01-27T05:28:46Z beach: Can all be in registers or in the stack frame. 2015-01-27T05:29:07Z beach: drmeister: Next, we ne need to get rid of FDEFINITIONs. 2015-01-27T05:29:17Z JokesOnYou77: nyef, ok. 2015-01-27T05:29:24Z drmeister: I will be putting them into stack frame variables and let LLVM figure out if they can be promoted to registers. 2015-01-27T05:29:34Z beach: Sure. 2015-01-27T05:29:36Z drmeister: What is G2659 and G2663? 2015-01-27T05:29:45Z drmeister: They seem like dead-ends 2015-01-27T05:30:05Z beach: drmeister: Yes, it has to do with captured variables. 2015-01-27T05:30:29Z bosko joined #lisp 2015-01-27T05:30:31Z beach: drmeister: It is a reference to the runtime environment containing captured variables. 2015-01-27T05:30:35Z beach: But there aren't any here. 2015-01-27T05:30:36Z bosko is now known as Balveda 2015-01-27T05:31:03Z beach: drmeister: The instructions on CELLs holding captured variables will use those hexagons. 2015-01-27T05:31:42Z drmeister: Ok, I'm starting to nod off to sleep. I have this recorded - I'll pick up from here tomorrow. 2015-01-27T05:31:54Z beach: OK. Great progress, though. 2015-01-27T05:32:01Z drmeister: Thank you very much. 2015-01-27T05:32:07Z beach: Sleep well. 2015-01-27T05:32:13Z drmeister: I'm doing this all in Slime as well. Much better than before. 2015-01-27T05:32:23Z beach: Excellent! 2015-01-27T05:32:55Z playnu_com_ar_ quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-01-27T05:40:12Z nand1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T05:40:44Z funnel quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T05:41:30Z nyef: Okay, time I got some sleep. 2015-01-27T05:41:36Z nyef quit (Quit: G'night all) 2015-01-27T05:53:21Z JokesOnYou77: I know I 2015-01-27T05:53:42Z JokesOnYou77: I know I've asked this before, but how do I use minion to message someone? 2015-01-27T05:56:51Z Bike: minion: help? 2015-01-27T05:56:52Z minion: There are multiple help modules. Try ``/msg minion help kind'', where kind is one of: "lookups", "helping others", "adding terms", "aliasing terms", "forgetting", "memos", "avoiding memos", "nicknames", "goodies", "eliza", "advice", "apropos", "acronyms". 2015-01-27T05:57:00Z Bike: "help memos", probably 2015-01-27T05:58:59Z ivan\ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T05:59:08Z ivan\ joined #lisp 2015-01-27T05:59:26Z gingerale quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-01-27T06:03:22Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-01-27T06:04:19Z vdamewood quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]) 2015-01-27T06:04:50Z oldk joined #lisp 2015-01-27T06:05:51Z JokesOnYou77: `minion: memo for nyef: Thanks again! 2015-01-27T06:05:55Z JokesOnYou77: minion: memo for nyef: Thanks again! 2015-01-27T06:05:55Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell nyef when he/she/it next speaks. 2015-01-27T06:05:59Z JokesOnYou77: rofl 2015-01-27T06:06:13Z harish_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-27T06:06:19Z oleo quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2015-01-27T06:08:51Z theos quit (Disconnected by services) 2015-01-27T06:09:06Z itheos joined #lisp 2015-01-27T06:10:37Z pranavrc joined #lisp 2015-01-27T06:13:20Z beach: JokesOnYou77: You understand you got exceptionally good service from nyef, right? Don't expect that level of service from him too often. :) 2015-01-27T06:13:29Z manuel__ quit (Quit: manuel__) 2015-01-27T06:13:52Z CrazyWoods quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-01-27T06:15:16Z beach: JokesOnYou77: Also, people who provide that level of service often expect it to be an investment, i.e., that you become a net contributor to the community later on. It is up to you to make that happen. 2015-01-27T06:15:58Z beach hopes the guilt trip will help it happen. 2015-01-27T06:18:03Z itheos is now known as theos 2015-01-27T06:19:37Z jumblerg joined #lisp 2015-01-27T06:21:08Z bb010g joined #lisp 2015-01-27T06:22:44Z dmiles quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-27T06:25:40Z Zhivago: Beach will sacrifice a kitten to his demonic overlords for each week you do not contribute. 2015-01-27T06:26:23Z mrSpec joined #lisp 2015-01-27T06:28:16Z beach: Zhivago: Good idea. There are too many cats in the neighborhood anyway. 2015-01-27T06:30:46Z Zhivago: It's a win-win. 2015-01-27T06:30:52Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-01-27T06:33:10Z beach: And I can't lose. Either I have fewer cats or more contributions. 2015-01-27T06:35:37Z defaultxr joined #lisp 2015-01-27T06:40:40Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2015-01-27T06:40:52Z shaungilchrist quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-01-27T06:42:08Z mearnsh quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-01-27T06:43:38Z pt1 joined #lisp 2015-01-27T06:43:45Z sdemarre joined #lisp 2015-01-27T06:44:22Z mearnsh joined #lisp 2015-01-27T06:44:25Z katco quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-01-27T06:44:47Z hvxgr quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-01-27T06:45:18Z yrdz quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-01-27T06:45:29Z jackdani1l is now known as jackdaniel 2015-01-27T06:47:16Z flash-- joined #lisp 2015-01-27T06:48:56Z beach: Time to get to work! 2015-01-27T06:48:59Z beach left #lisp 2015-01-27T06:49:34Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T06:49:53Z harish_ joined #lisp 2015-01-27T06:50:34Z krfantasy joined #lisp 2015-01-27T06:50:51Z funnel joined #lisp 2015-01-27T06:53:46Z egp_ joined #lisp 2015-01-27T06:56:31Z funnel quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-01-27T06:59:02Z oldk quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-27T07:00:45Z frkout_ joined #lisp 2015-01-27T07:02:18Z quazimodo: hey pjb you there? 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2015-01-27T15:05:52Z bullone: I want to use mapcar with subseq, but not works... 2015-01-27T15:06:25Z Xach: bullone: there are many ways. 2015-01-27T15:07:05Z bullone: Xach:please tell me the easiest, I got truly stuck. 2015-01-27T15:07:20Z Xach: bullone: one way is (loop for a in list by #'cddr for b in (rest list) by #'cddr collect (list a b)) 2015-01-27T15:07:35Z ivan\ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-01-27T15:07:40Z nyef: ... Which is exactly the solution that I would grab for first. 2015-01-27T15:07:44Z ivan\ joined #lisp 2015-01-27T15:08:18Z eudoxia: alternatively: (ql:quickload :serapeum) (serapeum:batches (list 1 2 3 5 7 11 13 17) 2) 2015-01-27T15:09:20Z bullone: Cool, I'll try them both. 2015-01-27T15:09:31Z Aranshada|W: I need to crack open my Lisp books again... 2015-01-27T15:10:25Z killmaster quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-01-27T15:10:29Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T15:11:53Z _Loic_ joined #lisp 2015-01-27T15:11:57Z kushal joined #lisp 2015-01-27T15:12:57Z killmaster joined #lisp 2015-01-27T15:14:48Z zeitue quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-01-27T15:15:47Z profess joined #lisp 2015-01-27T15:17:07Z genii joined #lisp 2015-01-27T15:17:40Z Amaan joined #lisp 2015-01-27T15:28:15Z bartol quit (Quit: leaving) 2015-01-27T15:29:00Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-01-27T15:29:42Z Aranshada|W_ joined #lisp 2015-01-27T15:29:46Z Aranshada|W quit (Disconnected by services) 2015-01-27T15:29:47Z Aranshada|W_ is now known as Aranshada|W 2015-01-27T15:30:14Z Denommus quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-27T15:33:38Z Fare joined #lisp 2015-01-27T15:35:36Z hitecnologys_ joined #lisp 2015-01-27T15:36:15Z BitPuffin` joined #lisp 2015-01-27T15:36:32Z oleo joined #lisp 2015-01-27T15:37:33Z bullone: Xach:appreciate, please tell me how to step by step feed the result pairs into functions as 2 arguments, at last append them into a list? 2015-01-27T15:37:33Z bullone: ((1 2)(3 5) (7 11)) --> (append (fn1 (fn2 1 2)) (fn1 (fn2 3 5)) (fn1 (fn2 7 11))) 2015-01-27T15:37:33Z bullone: 2015-01-27T15:37:33Z bullone: 2015-01-27T15:38:22Z hitecnologys quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-01-27T15:38:22Z hitecnologys_ is now known as hitecnologys 2015-01-27T15:38:37Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-01-27T15:38:59Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-27T15:39:06Z BitPuffin` is now known as BitPuffin 2015-01-27T15:43:49Z bullone: I'm really Sorry, I really love lisp, but these questions just exceeds what I can handle. 2015-01-27T15:43:53Z bullone: I'm really Sorry, I really love lisp, but these questions just 2015-01-27T15:43:53Z bullone: exceeds what I can handle. [23: 2015-01-27T15:43:53Z bullone: 2015-01-27T15:43:53Z bullone: 2015-01-27T15:45:59Z bullone: I'm not a programmer, lisp is the only language I'd like to learn because I use emacs; 2015-01-27T15:45:59Z bullone: although had read lots of lisp books and search around the internet , still had no idea about how to solve, so ask for help here. Any advice would be appreciate. 2015-01-27T15:46:18Z LiamH joined #lisp 2015-01-27T15:46:34Z bullone: If being impolite, I'm really sorry for that. 2015-01-27T15:46:47Z wasamasa: please don't copy-paste that frequently 2015-01-27T15:49:44Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T15:50:19Z ferada: bullone: what Xach posted will append each (list a b) right? so just replace that with (fn1 (fn2 a b)) 2015-01-27T15:50:27Z bullone quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T15:50:49Z pt1 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-01-27T15:50:58Z nee quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2015-01-27T15:51:10Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2015-01-27T15:52:45Z bullone joined #lisp 2015-01-27T15:52:47Z EvW joined #lisp 2015-01-27T15:53:00Z shka joined #lisp 2015-01-27T15:53:32Z uraimo quit (Quit: (null)) 2015-01-27T15:54:08Z Ethan- quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-01-27T15:54:09Z bullone emacs hanged for a while after sdcv-search-pointer 2015-01-27T15:54:50Z kapil__ quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2015-01-27T15:56:56Z bullone: Could someone give me some advice? please. 2015-01-27T15:57:26Z ferada: bullone: for emacs, ask #emacs 2015-01-27T15:57:39Z rme left #lisp 2015-01-27T15:58:55Z wasamasa: you'll need a bit more tenacity than that to program 2015-01-27T15:59:21Z bullone: ferada:I know, I want to feed a list of lists ((a b) (c d) (d e)) 2015-01-27T15:59:21Z bullone: pairs into functions as 2 arguments, at last append them into a 2015-01-27T15:59:22Z bullone: list. 2015-01-27T15:59:30Z wasamasa: bullone: don't copy-paste, damnit 2015-01-27T15:59:47Z cmack joined #lisp 2015-01-27T16:00:14Z bullone: wasamasa:sorry 2015-01-27T16:00:14Z bullone: 2015-01-27T16:00:53Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-01-27T16:01:06Z k-dawg quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2015-01-27T16:02:47Z vdamewood quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]) 2015-01-27T16:03:06Z bullone: I'm here to ask questions about lisp, not emacs... 2015-01-27T16:03:09Z shka: bullone: apply #'append? 2015-01-27T16:03:19Z shka: ah it is about elisp? 2015-01-27T16:03:31Z bullone: shka:I use sbcl 2015-01-27T16:03:52Z shka: bullone: so you want to have one list (a b c d e)? 2015-01-27T16:04:11Z shka: or what? 2015-01-27T16:04:27Z shka: or you want add b c d e to a list? 2015-01-27T16:04:28Z bullone: yes 2015-01-27T16:04:39Z shka: reduce with append 2015-01-27T16:04:50Z shka: not the fastest solution but it will work 2015-01-27T16:05:34Z bullone: shka,thank you, I will test it right now. 2015-01-27T16:05:53Z shka: if it needs to be fast try something destructive 2015-01-27T16:06:26Z shka: but 90% of time it actually does not have to be fast so who cares… 2015-01-27T16:07:12Z bullone: in fact, fast is my most priority, I want to compute the list with bordeaux-threads 2015-01-27T16:08:05Z shka: nope 2015-01-27T16:08:06Z bullone: I want to use lisp to beat down C :-) 2015-01-27T16:08:19Z shka: consider vector 2015-01-27T16:08:23Z wasamasa: bullone: yeah, good luck with that and your current skill set 2015-01-27T16:08:40Z bullone embarrased 2015-01-27T16:09:02Z shka: it is rather difficult to write super fast lisp program 2015-01-27T16:09:16Z bullone: I see... 2015-01-27T16:09:30Z shka: luckly i don't prioritze on performacne 2015-01-27T16:09:32Z shka: ;-) 2015-01-27T16:09:38Z shka: anyway! 2015-01-27T16:10:13Z mgv joined #lisp 2015-01-27T16:11:38Z bullone: wasamasa, by the way, really sorry , I have no idea why erc messed the forms up when comes to multi-lines. 2015-01-27T16:11:58Z wasamasa: bullone: well, we regularly have ERC users who paste the entire nick list on #emacs 2015-01-27T16:12:02Z cmack` joined #lisp 2015-01-27T16:12:04Z dunib_ joined #lisp 2015-01-27T16:12:52Z edran joined #lisp 2015-01-27T16:13:07Z bullone: wasamasa, but I didn't paste the nick list, does my emacs did that ? 2015-01-27T16:13:09Z wasamasa: bullone: no idea how and why, but it happens often enough for someone to use a script to kick them quickly 2015-01-27T16:13:23Z cyraxjoe joined #lisp 2015-01-27T16:13:39Z kushal joined #lisp 2015-01-27T16:13:52Z kushal quit (Changing host) 2015-01-27T16:13:52Z kushal joined #lisp 2015-01-27T16:14:45Z bullone: No wonder my erc broked once , I see. 2015-01-27T16:14:45Z bullone: 2015-01-27T16:15:01Z gabc_ joined #lisp 2015-01-27T16:15:05Z sigjuice_ joined #lisp 2015-01-27T16:15:18Z Lokathor quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-01-27T16:16:54Z khisanth_ joined #lisp 2015-01-27T16:17:41Z gingerale joined #lisp 2015-01-27T16:17:52Z dim: well follow that rule: don't allocate memory while it runs 2015-01-27T16:17:52Z theseb joined #lisp 2015-01-27T16:17:52Z shka: bullone: do you know about lparallel? 2015-01-27T16:17:52Z shka: you don't need to mess with bt directly 2015-01-27T16:17:52Z shka: try lparallel 2015-01-27T16:17:52Z shka: also, use type declarations 2015-01-27T16:17:52Z shka: and list is usually not exactly well suited for multithreading 2015-01-27T16:17:52Z shka: or for anything that requires size information 2015-01-27T16:17:52Z shka: so i would rather go with a vector 2015-01-27T16:18:00Z cmack quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T16:18:00Z shka: at this point you should have a fairly efficient program 2015-01-27T16:18:00Z shka: if you want something faster, i don't know 2015-01-27T16:18:00Z shka: not my magic levl 2015-01-27T16:18:00Z shka: *level 2015-01-27T16:18:00Z MightyJoe quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) 2015-01-27T16:18:00Z sigjuice quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-01-27T16:18:01Z edran_ quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-01-27T16:18:01Z nisstyre quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-01-27T16:18:01Z yorick quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-01-27T16:18:01Z gabc quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-01-27T16:18:01Z Khisanth quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-01-27T16:18:01Z dim quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-01-27T16:18:01Z stopbyte quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-01-27T16:18:01Z salv0 quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-01-27T16:18:01Z Grue` quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-01-27T16:18:02Z emlow quit (Quit: emlow) 2015-01-27T16:18:50Z bullone: shka:really appreciate :-) 2015-01-27T16:18:56Z dim joined #lisp 2015-01-27T16:18:58Z yorick joined #lisp 2015-01-27T16:19:55Z dkcl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-01-27T16:20:02Z dandersen joined #lisp 2015-01-27T16:20:41Z nisstyre joined #lisp 2015-01-27T16:20:46Z grc` joined #lisp 2015-01-27T16:20:53Z zadock quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-01-27T16:21:57Z salv0 joined #lisp 2015-01-27T16:23:56Z pers joined #lisp 2015-01-27T16:26:11Z JokesOnYou77: I know this isn't strictly a lisp question, but do I need to uninstall emacs 24.3 before installing 24.4? (ubuntu 14.04) 2015-01-27T16:26:49Z bullone quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-01-27T16:27:02Z theseb: JokesOnYou77: source or packages? 2015-01-27T16:27:22Z theseb: JokesOnYou77: aptitude upgrade emacs should be enough 2015-01-27T16:27:33Z theseb: maybe aptitude update emacs..not sure 2015-01-27T16:27:38Z JokesOnYou77: source. Don't think it's in the repos yet. 2015-01-27T16:28:26Z JokesOnYou77: Yeah, it's not in the repos yet and I haven't been able to find a ppa 2015-01-27T16:29:03Z theseb: JokesOnYou77: i was about to try a new version of emacs myself....just make your own build in /usr/local/bin or even in your home directory and adjust your path to point to it 2015-01-27T16:29:15Z theseb: JokesOnYou77: that way it won't interfere with the old package 2015-01-27T16:29:31Z hellofun` is now known as hellofunk 2015-01-27T16:30:08Z JokesOnYou77: ok. That's a good idea. I'll just stick it in ~/src and put a link in ~/bin to point to it 2015-01-27T16:31:02Z JokesOnYou77: On a different note, emacs auto-completes on tab when I'm in the listener but not in an actual lisp file, what gives? 2015-01-27T16:31:32Z nyef: JokesOnYou77: Tab is used to re-indent in the files. Try M-Tab or M-/ (two different complete mechanisms). 2015-01-27T16:31:39Z ivan\ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T16:31:48Z ivan\ joined #lisp 2015-01-27T16:33:16Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-01-27T16:33:27Z JokesOnYou77: nyef, I have both of those set for windows switching lol. Also, thank you gain for the help with the macro. 2015-01-27T16:34:22Z JokesOnYou77: Ahh, M-/ works. Looks like that's for Dynamic Abbreviations, interesting 2015-01-27T16:34:50Z kuzy000 joined #lisp 2015-01-27T16:36:54Z grc` quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-27T16:39:05Z thatsnotjack joined #lisp 2015-01-27T16:39:34Z jewel quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-01-27T16:43:49Z bullone joined #lisp 2015-01-27T16:44:00Z fantazo joined #lisp 2015-01-27T16:44:06Z Xach: pjb: same issues with the com.informatimago projects today 2015-01-27T16:44:41Z cadadar joined #lisp 2015-01-27T16:45:25Z arenz quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-01-27T16:46:28Z paradoja joined #lisp 2015-01-27T16:47:06Z cadadar left #lisp 2015-01-27T16:47:45Z cadadar joined #lisp 2015-01-27T16:48:23Z cadadar left #lisp 2015-01-27T16:49:16Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2015-01-27T16:49:44Z cadadar joined #lisp 2015-01-27T16:53:53Z bullone: shka:Emacs crash again, all in all, thanks everyone who helped me. 2015-01-27T16:54:00Z bullone zzz 2015-01-27T16:55:08Z nell quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2-dev) 2015-01-27T16:55:25Z nell joined #lisp 2015-01-27T16:55:36Z paradoja left #lisp 2015-01-27T16:56:58Z Fare quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-01-27T16:58:28Z shka: hmmm 2015-01-27T16:58:54Z rtra quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-01-27T16:58:56Z shka: object oriented programming does not describe method combination types well enough 2015-01-27T17:00:02Z Shinmera: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/Method-combination.png 2015-01-27T17:00:12Z redeemed quit (Quit: q) 2015-01-27T17:00:21Z fantazo quit (Read error: Connection timed out) 2015-01-27T17:00:25Z shka: Shinmera: thanks 2015-01-27T17:00:59Z rtra joined #lisp 2015-01-27T17:01:03Z fantazo joined #lisp 2015-01-27T17:01:09Z vydd_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T17:01:10Z shka: Shinmera: however i was refering to list, progn + and friends 2015-01-27T17:01:45Z shka: for instance, can i use progn combination to return the last method call? 2015-01-27T17:02:05Z shka: if so, does it inclued after methods? 2015-01-27T17:02:30Z Shinmera: Trying it out will tell you the quickest. 2015-01-27T17:02:56Z shka: you are probabbly right 2015-01-27T17:03:05Z mrcom joined #lisp 2015-01-27T17:06:21Z Adlai` is now known as adlai 2015-01-27T17:07:07Z leo2007 quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) 2015-01-27T17:11:28Z dandersen quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-01-27T17:11:56Z gravicappa joined #lisp 2015-01-27T17:13:16Z mishoo joined #lisp 2015-01-27T17:18:27Z psy_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-01-27T17:19:12Z psy_ joined #lisp 2015-01-27T17:19:26Z rhllor quit (Quit: rhllor) 2015-01-27T17:22:47Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-01-27T17:27:25Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-01-27T17:28:03Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2015-01-27T17:31:16Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2015-01-27T17:32:05Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2015-01-27T17:32:23Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp 2015-01-27T17:32:28Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-27T17:33:48Z Oddity joined #lisp 2015-01-27T17:33:52Z Oddity quit (Changing host) 2015-01-27T17:33:52Z Oddity joined #lisp 2015-01-27T17:34:26Z leo- joined #lisp 2015-01-27T17:37:52Z leo- quit (Client Quit) 2015-01-27T17:38:56Z leo- joined #lisp 2015-01-27T17:40:08Z leo- quit (Client Quit) 2015-01-27T17:40:16Z intinig joined #lisp 2015-01-27T17:40:34Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2015-01-27T17:40:38Z leo2007 joined #lisp 2015-01-27T17:40:59Z JokesOnYou77: What determines the order I get items from MAPHASH? I know items in a hashtable are unordered, but is MAPHASH deterministic, or can I loop over the same hashtable 5 times and get 5 different orders? 2015-01-27T17:41:16Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp 2015-01-27T17:41:27Z scharan quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2) 2015-01-27T17:41:51Z mrSpec quit (Quit: mrSpec) 2015-01-27T17:42:06Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp 2015-01-27T17:42:21Z nyef: JokesOnYou77: I don't know that it's at all guaranteed. Probably safest to assume that it isn't. 2015-01-27T17:42:25Z leo2007 quit (Client Quit) 2015-01-27T17:42:42Z the_real_intinig quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-01-27T17:42:47Z Xach: JokesOnYou77: it is possible to get different order each time. 2015-01-27T17:42:51Z mvilleneuve quit (Client Quit) 2015-01-27T17:43:04Z nyef: An EQ-hashed table, for example, could be rehashed with the keys in a different order after each GC. 2015-01-27T17:43:07Z jasom: JokesOnYou77: if you haven't changed the hashtable and no GC has occurred, it seems unlikely that it would change, but it's not ever guaranteed 2015-01-27T17:43:21Z leo2007 joined #lisp 2015-01-27T17:44:16Z JokesOnYou77: Cool. I've always been taught and written code to assume the order was unstable, but I never thought to ask why. I didn't realize there were things that could trigger a rehashing and thus reorder the hash. 2015-01-27T17:44:34Z Xach: the most likely thing is a gc, for sure 2015-01-27T17:45:01Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-01-27T17:45:10Z JokesOnYou77: Very interesting, thank you 2015-01-27T17:45:37Z leo2007 quit (Client Quit) 2015-01-27T17:46:04Z leo2007 joined #lisp 2015-01-27T17:47:43Z leo2007 quit (Client Quit) 2015-01-27T17:47:52Z leo2007 joined #lisp 2015-01-27T17:48:35Z leo2007 quit (Client Quit) 2015-01-27T17:49:05Z leo2007 joined #lisp 2015-01-27T17:49:34Z vydd joined #lisp 2015-01-27T17:50:02Z hardenedapple quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1) 2015-01-27T17:51:27Z scharan joined #lisp 2015-01-27T17:51:53Z scharan quit (Client Quit) 2015-01-27T17:54:32Z leo2007 quit (Quit: happy hacking) 2015-01-27T17:54:41Z leo2007 joined #lisp 2015-01-27T17:56:06Z shaungilchrist joined #lisp 2015-01-27T17:57:01Z whartung joined #lisp 2015-01-27T17:59:42Z tromey quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T17:59:49Z nell quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-27T18:00:33Z jasom quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-01-27T18:05:03Z schoppenhauer: is there a gopher-server written in cl? 2015-01-27T18:06:41Z flash-- is now known as flash- 2015-01-27T18:08:00Z ivan\ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T18:08:09Z ivan\ joined #lisp 2015-01-27T18:13:44Z stopbyte joined #lisp 2015-01-27T18:16:12Z MutSbeta joined #lisp 2015-01-27T18:19:13Z aretecode quit (Quit: Toodaloo) 2015-01-27T18:19:30Z EvW joined #lisp 2015-01-27T18:23:55Z vydd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T18:27:27Z Hache_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T18:27:27Z Kruppe quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) 2015-01-27T18:28:47Z vydd joined #lisp 2015-01-27T18:28:51Z vydd quit (Changing host) 2015-01-27T18:28:51Z vydd joined #lisp 2015-01-27T18:28:57Z Kruppe joined #lisp 2015-01-27T18:30:42Z dmiles_afk quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-27T18:30:57Z dmiles_afk joined #lisp 2015-01-27T18:33:45Z xyh joined #lisp 2015-01-27T18:33:59Z aftershave quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2015-01-27T18:34:07Z xyh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T18:35:14Z dmiles joined #lisp 2015-01-27T18:36:03Z dmiles_afk quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-01-27T18:36:34Z jasom_ joined #lisp 2015-01-27T18:37:31Z jasom_ quit (Client Quit) 2015-01-27T18:38:06Z _Loic_ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-01-27T18:40:58Z sheilong joined #lisp 2015-01-27T18:44:41Z Xach: schoppenhauer: i don't think so. 2015-01-27T18:44:56Z schoppenhauer: Xach: ok. 2015-01-27T18:47:21Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-01-27T18:47:21Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-01-27T18:48:52Z aftershave joined #lisp 2015-01-27T18:48:57Z CrazyWoods joined #lisp 2015-01-27T18:52:30Z Fade: considering the simplicity of the gopher protocol, you could probably make short work of it in a few hours. :) 2015-01-27T18:53:42Z FrostyX_ is now known as FrostyX 2015-01-27T18:53:46Z alex6407 joined #lisp 2015-01-27T18:56:39Z profess quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-01-27T18:56:48Z Beltxarga joined #lisp 2015-01-27T18:57:08Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-01-27T18:57:21Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp 2015-01-27T18:57:22Z enitiz joined #lisp 2015-01-27T18:59:07Z xjgrant quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-27T19:01:12Z intinig quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T19:01:47Z intinig joined #lisp 2015-01-27T19:02:14Z Oddity quit 2015-01-27T19:02:34Z Oddity joined #lisp 2015-01-27T19:03:11Z froggey: hello 2015-01-27T19:03:17Z froggey: source is up: https://github.com/froggey/Mezzano 2015-01-27T19:03:40Z nyef: WooHoo! 2015-01-27T19:03:40Z mood: froggey: Awesome! 2015-01-27T19:04:12Z samebchase: froggey: Congratulations! Wow. Great work. 2015-01-27T19:04:20Z froggey: thanks! 2015-01-27T19:04:29Z froggey: I'm uploading all the libraries I had to modify now 2015-01-27T19:05:26Z nyef: Cloning now... 2015-01-27T19:06:21Z intinig quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-01-27T19:06:54Z tomaw quit (Quit: Quitting) 2015-01-27T19:07:44Z nicdev: i was just looking at comments about it on /r/lisp! you should update with the link 2015-01-27T19:08:28Z ggole quit 2015-01-27T19:09:01Z zadock joined #lisp 2015-01-27T19:09:43Z intinig joined #lisp 2015-01-27T19:09:44Z zacharias joined #lisp 2015-01-27T19:10:08Z nyef: Hrm. System "lispos-file" not found 2015-01-27T19:10:32Z froggey: it's in the file-server/ directory 2015-01-27T19:11:23Z shka: froggey: are you kidding me? 2015-01-27T19:11:34Z froggey: about what? 2015-01-27T19:11:40Z |3b| should have waited for that instead of starting working on porting the parts i want of st terminal emulator to CL :/ 2015-01-27T19:12:34Z nyef: Hrm... Okay, I'm moderately clueless about asdf. How do I tell it about these .asd files? 2015-01-27T19:12:35Z shka: froggey: mezzano 2015-01-27T19:12:38Z antgreen quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-01-27T19:12:42Z shka: os in lisp? 2015-01-27T19:12:46Z shka: epic 2015-01-27T19:12:48Z froggey: it's real 2015-01-27T19:13:01Z adlai quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T19:13:02Z shka: how much time did it take? 2015-01-27T19:13:06Z ferada: best day of the year so far, froggey: awesome! 2015-01-27T19:13:22Z shka: and how did you implemented it? 2015-01-27T19:13:29Z froggey: I dunno, I've been working on it on & off since 2010 at least 2015-01-27T19:14:13Z shka: wow 2015-01-27T19:14:22Z shka: froggey: mighty impressive 2015-01-27T19:14:26Z shka: but how does it run? 2015-01-27T19:14:33Z shka: how did you get lisp on bare metal? 2015-01-27T19:14:35Z hiyosi quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-01-27T19:14:45Z nyef: shka: There was a virtualbox appliance linked a couple of days ago. 2015-01-27T19:14:52Z nyef: With the system installed in it. 2015-01-27T19:15:03Z shka: ah, ok 2015-01-27T19:15:12Z shka: i need to try it! 2015-01-27T19:15:43Z froggey: I wrote a compiler, and the support code is written so that it doesn't need any extra support 2015-01-27T19:16:59Z shka: froggey: it makes you hiper-awesome 2015-01-27T19:17:16Z froggey: thanks 2015-01-27T19:17:28Z samebchase: froggey: write up a list of TODOS in the readme. You are bound to get patches. 2015-01-27T19:17:29Z eudoxia joined #lisp 2015-01-27T19:17:48Z froggey: samebchase: TODO: literally everything 2015-01-27T19:18:06Z nyef: ... Seriously, how do I tell ASDF where the .asd files are? 2015-01-27T19:18:49Z froggey: I don't know. I've been using quicklisp's local-projects feature 2015-01-27T19:19:08Z eudoxia: nyef: https://github.com/eudoxia0/dotfiles/blob/master/.config/common-lisp/source-registry.conf 2015-01-27T19:21:18Z tajjada quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-01-27T19:21:52Z taspat joined #lisp 2015-01-27T19:22:20Z shaungilchrist quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-01-27T19:22:45Z tajjada joined #lisp 2015-01-27T19:24:24Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-27T19:27:11Z Fade: I've been doing that on all my systems for awhile. it works very well. 2015-01-27T19:27:15Z nyef: Okay, turns out I can push directories onto asdf:*central-registry*, which is the old way of doing things but still works. 2015-01-27T19:27:29Z nyef: Let's see how far I get with a build. 2015-01-27T19:27:32Z pt1 joined #lisp 2015-01-27T19:27:39Z nisstyre quit (Changing host) 2015-01-27T19:27:39Z nisstyre joined #lisp 2015-01-27T19:27:53Z nyef: Especially given that I've got buildroot chugging away on another terminal, and once that's done I need to do a Linux kernel build... 2015-01-27T19:28:58Z oleo joined #lisp 2015-01-27T19:28:58Z oleo quit (Changing host) 2015-01-27T19:28:58Z oleo joined #lisp 2015-01-27T19:29:24Z Shinmera: *central-registry* is not recursive, iirc 2015-01-27T19:29:40Z oleo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-01-27T19:29:45Z tajjada quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-01-27T19:29:56Z nyef: Doesn't stop me from pushing two directories to it, having previously done a find . -name \*.asd in the shell. 2015-01-27T19:30:00Z intinig quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T19:30:08Z adlai joined #lisp 2015-01-27T19:30:36Z intinig joined #lisp 2015-01-27T19:30:46Z Grue``` joined #lisp 2015-01-27T19:30:50Z Grue``` is now known as Grue` 2015-01-27T19:35:53Z oleo joined #lisp 2015-01-27T19:36:00Z nyef: Oh, this is ridiculous. 2015-01-27T19:37:41Z froggey: the package conflicts? 2015-01-27T19:37:44Z samebchase: nyef: (push *default-pathname-defaults* asdf:*central-registry*) 2015-01-27T19:38:00Z nyef: Yeah, starting over, and preparing to kill the package conflicts at the start. 2015-01-27T19:38:22Z intinig quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T19:38:43Z mood: It built, but it doesn't seem to like qemu: http://imgur.com/g3ODqmo 2015-01-27T19:38:56Z mood: That, and I don't have all of those image files and fonts 2015-01-27T19:38:59Z intinig joined #lisp 2015-01-27T19:39:09Z froggey: wow, you got a display out of it 2015-01-27T19:39:15Z froggey: try booting with -vga std 2015-01-27T19:39:57Z enitiz quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-27T19:40:00Z froggey: I'm pretty sure that shouldn't happen, by default qemu supplies a 24-bit framebuffer which is not supported 2015-01-27T19:40:47Z ivan\ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-01-27T19:40:54Z ejbs joined #lisp 2015-01-27T19:40:56Z ivan\ joined #lisp 2015-01-27T19:41:37Z froggey: you can disable all the stuff in ipl.lisp to just get the basic repl 2015-01-27T19:42:20Z froggey: the only image I don't supply is the desktop background, so you can remove the image parameter from line 122 to get a plain-colour background 2015-01-27T19:42:24Z shaungilchrist joined #lisp 2015-01-27T19:42:44Z froggey: and the fonts are just regular dejavu fonts you can get from http://dejavu-fonts.org/wiki/Main_Page 2015-01-27T19:43:02Z tomaw joined #lisp 2015-01-27T19:43:02Z froggey: sans and mono 2015-01-27T19:43:37Z nyef: (handler-bind ((sb-ext:name-conflict (lambda (c) (declare (ignore c) (invoke-restart 'sb-impl::take-new))))) ...) 2015-01-27T19:43:54Z nyef: ... Drat. Didn't work. /-: 2015-01-27T19:43:55Z ejbs: froggey: Have you released the sources :)!? 2015-01-27T19:44:06Z froggey: yes! 2015-01-27T19:44:12Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-01-27T19:44:27Z froggey: https://github.com/froggey/Mezzano 2015-01-27T19:45:16Z xjgrant joined #lisp 2015-01-27T19:46:13Z ejbs: Awesome! 2015-01-27T19:46:45Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-01-27T19:46:58Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp 2015-01-27T19:47:40Z slyrus joined #lisp 2015-01-27T19:47:55Z fsvehla quit (Quit: fsvehla) 2015-01-27T19:48:52Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp 2015-01-27T19:49:38Z nyef: Do I just treat this file as a hard drive image? 2015-01-27T19:50:13Z froggey: yes, I use qemu-img to convert it to a vmdk 2015-01-27T19:50:50Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-01-27T19:51:03Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp 2015-01-27T19:51:19Z froggey: you'll probably want to have a serial port attached. all the debugging messages are written to COM1 2015-01-27T19:52:11Z Beltxarga: thank you for your work froggey 2015-01-27T19:52:33Z tomaw- joined #lisp 2015-01-27T19:53:20Z nyef: Well, it's doing *something*, at least. 2015-01-27T19:53:34Z mood: It's now a sort of paint application for me: http://imgur.com/jtHP9io 2015-01-27T19:54:02Z tomaw quit (Ping timeout: 619 seconds) 2015-01-27T19:54:02Z nyef: Ooh. Mouse cursor, display screen... 2015-01-27T19:54:06Z nyef: #. 2015-01-27T19:54:06Z nyef: Dispatching on class NIL.> 2015-01-27T19:54:18Z rolando` joined #lisp 2015-01-27T19:54:46Z tomaw- is now known as tomaw 2015-01-27T19:54:50Z nyef: Switching to virtio-net. 2015-01-27T19:54:56Z froggey: that's what happens when the desktop program isn't running, nothing gets drawn automatically in the background 2015-01-27T19:55:04Z jasom joined #lisp 2015-01-27T19:56:09Z JuanDaugherty quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T19:56:20Z nyef: REPL functions, at least. 2015-01-27T19:56:24Z manuel__ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-01-27T19:56:48Z nyef: It's a bit rough, but VERY nice work so far. 2015-01-27T19:57:29Z mood: Very much agree! 2015-01-27T19:58:19Z froggey: "a bit rough" feels like an understatement, but I thought that I really should get it out there after working on it for so long 2015-01-27T19:59:42Z nyef: I think that the top couple of things on my list would be streamlining the build procedure a bit and trying to figure out the GC. 2015-01-27T19:59:52Z fsvehla joined #lisp 2015-01-27T20:00:14Z ryankarason quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-27T20:00:23Z froggey: I'm fixing the package problems right now 2015-01-27T20:00:40Z mood: froggey: Is it right that the package mezzano.gui.desktop doesn't exist in the vm? 2015-01-27T20:01:00Z mood: Because my desktop isn't being spawned, and I can't execute the code on line 122 by hand either 2015-01-27T20:02:28Z froggey: the desktop program and all the supporting libraries have to be compiled & loaded by mezzano. you need a directory with the fonts & libraries set up on your host to do that 2015-01-27T20:02:39Z froggey: and it'll take a few hours to build them all 2015-01-27T20:02:39Z jasom quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3) 2015-01-27T20:03:09Z froggey: probably much longer if you're running in non-kvm qemu 2015-01-27T20:03:43Z ryankarason joined #lisp 2015-01-27T20:04:13Z enitiz joined #lisp 2015-01-27T20:04:36Z Aranshada|W is now known as LittleBobbyTable 2015-01-27T20:04:45Z stepnem quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T20:04:45Z LittleBobbyTable is now known as Aranshada|W 2015-01-27T20:06:45Z cluck joined #lisp 2015-01-27T20:07:26Z gabc_ is now known as gabc 2015-01-27T20:07:27Z jdz quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-01-27T20:09:12Z Denommus joined #lisp 2015-01-27T20:11:58Z mood: froggey: calling (sys.int::cal "gui/desktop.lisp") should connect to the file server I started earlier, right? It fails to connect somehow 2015-01-27T20:12:29Z jdz joined #lisp 2015-01-27T20:12:34Z froggey: did you set the IP address to your host's IP? line 10 2015-01-27T20:13:18Z kcj joined #lisp 2015-01-27T20:13:23Z intinig quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T20:13:59Z intinig joined #lisp 2015-01-27T20:14:24Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-01-27T20:14:33Z Harag1 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-27T20:14:41Z Patzy joined #lisp 2015-01-27T20:18:12Z Quadrescence quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-27T20:20:34Z mrcom: I just posted a comment on Hacker News, w/ links to github & IRC log. 2015-01-27T20:20:49Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-01-27T20:21:00Z jasom joined #lisp 2015-01-27T20:21:02Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp 2015-01-27T20:22:48Z guaqua`` joined #lisp 2015-01-27T20:22:48Z intinig quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-01-27T20:22:53Z abbe_ joined #lisp 2015-01-27T20:22:57Z larme1 joined #lisp 2015-01-27T20:23:21Z pchrist_ joined #lisp 2015-01-27T20:23:58Z manuel__ joined #lisp 2015-01-27T20:24:06Z abbe quit (Disconnected by services) 2015-01-27T20:24:07Z abbe_ is now known as abbe 2015-01-27T20:24:38Z Shinmera: In much less exciting news, I'm making good progress on a much more lispy syntax for working with CommonQt: https://filebox.tymoon.eu/file/TXpBMw== 2015-01-27T20:25:55Z nicdev: Shinmera: any progress news to expand the ecosystem is good news! 2015-01-27T20:26:22Z nicdev: does anyone know if CLASP is anywhere close to being able to work with Qt? 2015-01-27T20:26:38Z dim: froggey: out of pure curiosity, is the file server implementing the 9P protocol or something? 2015-01-27T20:26:41Z Shinmera: Clasp is currently buildable and runnable but extremely slow 2015-01-27T20:26:46Z PuercoPope joined #lisp 2015-01-27T20:26:57Z Shinmera: Stassats is holding off on doing much with it until Slime runs at acceptable speed for him 2015-01-27T20:27:03Z fantazo quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2015-01-27T20:27:11Z Shinmera: Which should come along now that drmeister can focus on integrating Cleavir. 2015-01-27T20:27:11Z dim: Shinmera: get your new commonqt API supported in Mezzano and surf on the more exciting news ;-) 2015-01-27T20:27:17Z gko_ joined #lisp 2015-01-27T20:27:30Z Shinmera: dim: I'm content with being unexciting news. 2015-01-27T20:27:32Z ircbrows- joined #lisp 2015-01-27T20:27:39Z dim: good answer ;[-) 2015-01-27T20:28:51Z samebchase: Shinmera: +1 2015-01-27T20:29:01Z swflint_away joined #lisp 2015-01-27T20:29:43Z froggey: dim: no, it's a very simple thing I put together to let me load stuff from the host 2015-01-27T20:29:55Z EvW joined #lisp 2015-01-27T20:29:57Z Shinmera: What I'm doing with Qtools is exciting enough for myself. The idea of having a lispy toolkit with all the work of Qt at my fingertips is really nice. 2015-01-27T20:30:28Z Shinmera: Hopefully it's nice enough to push me towards working on Parasol again. 2015-01-27T20:31:35Z dim: how complex are the Qt requirements for running it Shinmera? apt-get install qt4-dev or something and be done? 2015-01-27T20:31:42Z dim: froggey: ah, ok, get it, thanks 2015-01-27T20:31:52Z Shinmera: dim: You also need smokeqt 2015-01-27T20:32:16Z dim: looks like it's easily available in debian 2015-01-27T20:32:16Z Shinmera: dim: But yeah, qt4 + smokeqt and you're set. 2015-01-27T20:32:23Z dim: is it easy to setup in macosx and windows too? 2015-01-27T20:32:27Z ejbs: Shinmera: Hopefully we'll get to point people to your tools then :) 2015-01-27T20:32:42Z Vutral quit (*.net *.split) 2015-01-27T20:32:42Z PuercoPop quit (*.net *.split) 2015-01-27T20:32:42Z swflint quit (*.net *.split) 2015-01-27T20:32:42Z gko quit (*.net *.split) 2015-01-27T20:32:43Z pchrist quit (*.net *.split) 2015-01-27T20:32:43Z ircbrowse quit (*.net *.split) 2015-01-27T20:32:43Z larme quit (*.net *.split) 2015-01-27T20:32:43Z guaqua` quit (*.net *.split) 2015-01-27T20:32:44Z swflint_away is now known as swflint 2015-01-27T20:32:44Z PuercoPope is now known as PuercoPop 2015-01-27T20:32:47Z Shinmera: dim: CommonQt's site has DLLs for windows. Don't know about OS X 2015-01-27T20:33:11Z nicdev: did some exploratory work with CommonQt and got stuck with displaying tabular data. I need to take it up again and see how far I can go this time around. 2015-01-27T20:33:15Z Shinmera: ejbs: http://shinmera.github.io/qtools/ There's currently a different syntax in place using really complicated class options and environment macros 2015-01-27T20:33:16Z dim: ok, someday I guess I'll see about that, but I'm quite good at avoiding any GUI programming ;-) 2015-01-27T20:33:26Z Shinmera: ejbs: I'll eliminate that in favour of the new syntax. 2015-01-27T20:33:42Z urandom__ joined #lisp 2015-01-27T20:34:15Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-01-27T20:34:20Z psy_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-01-27T20:34:29Z Vutral_ joined #lisp 2015-01-27T20:34:35Z sdemarre joined #lisp 2015-01-27T20:34:48Z ejbs: Cool, reading thru it now 2015-01-27T20:35:51Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2015-01-27T20:36:03Z sheilong quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T20:36:32Z sheilong joined #lisp 2015-01-27T20:37:56Z nand1 joined #lisp 2015-01-27T20:38:12Z mega1 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-27T20:38:33Z psy_ joined #lisp 2015-01-27T20:42:48Z ivan\ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T20:42:56Z ivan\ joined #lisp 2015-01-27T20:43:08Z yrk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-01-27T20:43:39Z shka quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1) 2015-01-27T20:44:06Z ejbs` joined #lisp 2015-01-27T20:44:10Z jasom: Shinmera: I'll look at commonqt soon; it may be good enough to pull me off of ltk 2015-01-27T20:45:06Z enitiz quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-01-27T20:45:19Z Shinmera: jasom: I've never used LTK, so I can't say. 2015-01-27T20:45:49Z jasom: Xach: speaking of which, I may ask for my fork of ltk to go into quicklisp at this point; I asked Peter if he was still maintaining it; he said "yes, send patches to the list" and I sent 3 patches, 2 of which fixed bugs I ran into in real-world code, and there was no reply to any of those 3 other than some random person saying "I had this bug too, has this been merged yet?" 2015-01-27T20:45:55Z ejbs quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-01-27T20:46:12Z jasom: I pinged the list again on them and got still no reply. 2015-01-27T20:46:47Z jasom: Shinmera: it's kind-of the lowest-common-denominator for lisp GUIs, as it opens up a socket to wish (the tcl/tk shell) for doing all gui commands 2015-01-27T20:47:22Z jasom: Shinmera: however, it requires no FFI and runs very solid on windows, mac and linux, and the GUI doesn't freeze when you break into the debugger (since it's running in a separate process), 2015-01-27T20:47:31Z rtra quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-01-27T20:47:51Z Shinmera: jasom: Hm. Interesting approach to GUIs. 2015-01-27T20:48:41Z jasom: it makes delivring binaries very easy too; only 2 files (the lisp executable image, and the wish executable) 2015-01-27T20:49:14Z jasom: obviously doing something like parasol would be a non-starter though; but it's great for "throw a GUI around this tool" 2015-01-27T20:49:14Z antoszka: jasom: if I wanted to try your LTK fork, is it available on some source-code hosting service? 2015-01-27T20:49:23Z jasom: antoszka: github.com/jasom/jtk 2015-01-27T20:49:28Z antoszka: cool, thx 2015-01-27T20:49:33Z Shinmera: jasom: For speed reasons you mean? 2015-01-27T20:49:36Z jasom: Shinmera: yeah 2015-01-27T20:50:27Z Shinmera: The cost of FFI translation is already a pain for me in some aspects. I'll probably have to look into offloading a bunch of work onto OpenGL/GPU for some graphical ops. 2015-01-27T20:50:35Z slyrus joined #lisp 2015-01-27T20:51:10Z jasom: antoszka: I changed the system name, but not the package name, so should be a drop-in replacement while still allowing you to have ltk visible to asdf 2015-01-27T20:51:24Z antoszka: OK 2015-01-27T20:51:38Z hiato joined #lisp 2015-01-27T20:51:44Z antoszka: just cloning into my quicklisp/local-projects 2015-01-27T20:52:03Z jasom: Shinmera: if you can treat enough of the foreign objects as opaque pointers, you should save a lot, right? 2015-01-27T20:52:25Z rtra joined #lisp 2015-01-27T20:52:52Z mrSpec joined #lisp 2015-01-27T20:53:10Z Shinmera: jasom: Right, but that's not feasible in some cases. Example problem I had: Detect the inner bounds of a texture (as in, what's non-transparent). 2015-01-27T20:53:34Z jasom: Shinmera: I actually made some gtksharp bindings using foil, (which is basically the same idea as ltk, but with introspection, and for CLR/JVM) and the demos worked, but one of the demos rotated "hello world" around an axis, and it consumed 40% of my CPU time on a 3.4GHZ Xeon 2015-01-27T20:54:15Z Shinmera: You can get terrible performance with Qt as well if you use the raster engine. 2015-01-27T20:54:32Z Shinmera: Not quite that terrible 2015-01-27T20:54:32Z JokesOnYou77: Hi all. I'm trying to use a macro to define a function for each item in a list that nyef helped me with last night and I can't get it to run: http://paste.lisp.org/display/145412 I get (A) is neither of type SYMBOL nor a list of the form (SETF SYMBOL). no matter what I try to call FOO with. I've tried putting the MACROLET in the scope of a LET that most certainly uses A as a symbol. I've tried everythign I can think of b 2015-01-27T20:54:32Z JokesOnYou77: ut I'm missing something. 2015-01-27T20:54:34Z Shinmera: but yeah. 2015-01-27T20:55:04Z nyef: JokesOnYou77: IN not ON. 2015-01-27T20:55:08Z jasom: JokesOnYou77: your macro is emiging (defun (a)... instead of (defun a... 2015-01-27T20:55:46Z jasom: JokesOnYou77: when in doubt, macroexpand is your friend 2015-01-27T20:55:56Z nyef: FOR SYM IN SYMBOLS says each element of the list SYMBOLS. FOR SYM ON SYMBOLS says each CONS CELL in the list SYMBOLS. 2015-01-27T20:56:11Z JokesOnYou77: Rofl, all this time it was the LOOP control sequence! 2015-01-27T20:56:35Z JokesOnYou77: ty! Wow, I feel silly. I even read it and thought it was IN 2015-01-27T20:56:54Z cadadar joined #lisp 2015-01-27T20:57:22Z ryankarason quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-27T20:57:34Z Beltxarga quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T20:58:31Z ryankarason joined #lisp 2015-01-27T20:59:41Z ynniv joined #lisp 2015-01-27T21:00:37Z mood: froggey: Mezzano is now loading ASDF! 2015-01-27T21:02:09Z froggey: excellent! 2015-01-27T21:02:34Z mood: ...and it crashed. 2015-01-27T21:02:45Z froggey: there is a bit of a problem with ASDF. I'm missing a few package functions it needs, so you'll have to let it compile, then reboot and let it load the compiled file 2015-01-27T21:02:59Z ejbs` quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2015-01-27T21:03:00Z ejbs joined #lisp 2015-01-27T21:03:26Z froggey: crashed how? 2015-01-27T21:03:49Z mood: froggey: Undefined function UNEXPORT 2015-01-27T21:03:52Z mood: I'll reboot 2015-01-27T21:04:02Z froggey: ok, that's the problem. it'll be ok if you reboot 2015-01-27T21:05:48Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T21:08:11Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp 2015-01-27T21:10:45Z fikusz quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-01-27T21:11:03Z ehaliewicz joined #lisp 2015-01-27T21:12:10Z Xach: jasom: Really? I have recently had him fix stuff and make new releases at my request. Like in the past month or two. 2015-01-27T21:12:59Z Denommus` joined #lisp 2015-01-27T21:13:19Z fsvehla quit (Quit: fsvehla) 2015-01-27T21:13:32Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2015-01-27T21:13:33Z fikusz joined #lisp 2015-01-27T21:14:09Z Denommus quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-01-27T21:14:23Z mega1 joined #lisp 2015-01-27T21:15:47Z hiato quit (Quit: The great inequality of life: nothing > money) 2015-01-27T21:15:58Z ehaliewicz: you guys saw this, right? https://github.com/froggey/Mezzano/ 2015-01-27T21:17:19Z Denommus` quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-27T21:17:22Z nyef: ehaliewicz: Already compiled it once. (-: 2015-01-27T21:17:54Z wasamasa: ehaliewicz: oh nice, finally some sources 2015-01-27T21:18:05Z ehaliewicz: maybe it should go in the topic :) 2015-01-27T21:18:19Z nyef: Unfortunately, I don't have much time to spend on it right now, still fighting the Linux kernel on a few things, but I'm definitely looking forward to hacking it up a bit. 2015-01-27T21:22:19Z jasom: Xach: hmm, maybe I'll try again; I last pinged the list maybe 6 months ago 2015-01-27T21:22:54Z heurist quit (Quit: heurist) 2015-01-27T21:22:56Z ehaliewicz: this will be a lot of fun to work on 2015-01-27T21:23:48Z Xach: jasom: I didn't know there was a list. I emailed him directly. There was an issue with it not explicitly depending on sb-bsd-sockets. 2015-01-27T21:23:49Z vydd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T21:23:54Z Xach: minor issue 2015-01-27T21:24:03Z Xach is glad to see zpb-ttf was of some use 2015-01-27T21:25:36Z mood: Mezzano just panicked after seemingly scanning for asdf systems in an endless loop 2015-01-27T21:26:05Z zygentoma joined #lisp 2015-01-27T21:26:05Z ehaliewicz: froggey: you're using a single mark and sweep collector right? 2015-01-27T21:26:15Z ehaliewicz: because some objects aren't movable? 2015-01-27T21:26:19Z sheilong quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2015-01-27T21:27:16Z jasom: Xach: every time I e-mail him personally, he responds, but the response I got for "I have a patch" is "send the patch to the list" 2015-01-27T21:27:42Z froggey: ehaliewicz: there's a mark & sweek collector for the non-movable objects (mostly just functions) and a copying collector for all the other objects 2015-01-27T21:28:20Z Xach: jasom: let me know how it goes. 2015-01-27T21:28:28Z mood: froggey: This isn't normal right? http://paste.lisp.org/display/145413 2015-01-27T21:28:33Z jasom: Xach: willdo 2015-01-27T21:28:34Z froggey: Xach: it's very useful, I don't think I'd have added truetype font support if it didn't exist 2015-01-27T21:28:56Z nell joined #lisp 2015-01-27T21:29:51Z ehaliewicz: froggey: ah ok 2015-01-27T21:30:01Z froggey: mood: no, I have a source-register.conf file that ASDF uses. it scans the asd files a few times, but finishes fairly quickly 2015-01-27T21:30:04Z sdemarre quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-01-27T21:30:09Z froggey: *source-registry.conf 2015-01-27T21:30:27Z Xach: froggey: thanks. glad to help. i just wanted to be able to make flash animations from lisp, and that project never materialized. 2015-01-27T21:31:21Z mood: froggey: Well, it did that for a while and then "page fault on unmapped page..." 2015-01-27T21:32:04Z froggey: mood: all it contains is (:source-registry (:tree "/full/path/to/library/sources/") :inherit-configuration) and it lives under the home directory in ".config/common-lisp/source-registry.conf" 2015-01-27T21:32:29Z froggey: it probably caused a stack overflow. does it show the fault address? 2015-01-27T21:33:08Z mood: froggey: "page fault on unmapped page 2080003FFFF8 in thread #<694889>" 2015-01-27T21:33:26Z froggey: mood: oh, I see. you have a symlink from /home/joram/dev/lisp/mezzano/.quicklisp/local-projects/mezzano/ to /home/joram/dev/lisp/mezzano/? 2015-01-27T21:33:43Z mood: froggey: The other way around, but yes 2015-01-27T21:34:20Z froggey: I think that's causing infinite recursion while asdf scans for asd files 2015-01-27T21:34:42Z profess joined #lisp 2015-01-27T21:35:25Z froggey: that's definitely a stack overflow 2015-01-27T21:35:27Z gingerale quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-01-27T21:35:27Z thatsnotjack quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-01-27T21:36:14Z salva quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-01-27T21:39:45Z milosn quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-01-27T21:39:46Z attila_lendvai left #lisp 2015-01-27T21:41:17Z thatsnotjack joined #lisp 2015-01-27T21:42:31Z khisanth_ is now known as Khisanth 2015-01-27T21:42:46Z mood: froggey: You were right, I moved stuff around a bit and now it's compiling zpb-ttf 2015-01-27T21:42:54Z ynniv: mood: first pull request? ;) 2015-01-27T21:43:34Z mood: ynniv: Nah, the error was on my side. The build instructions could be expanded a bit though 2015-01-27T21:44:32Z ynniv: I don’t think that infinite recursion due to symlink is desired functionality. Plus you wouldn’t know how to fix it if froggey wasn’t in the channel. 2015-01-27T21:44:57Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-27T21:45:13Z vydd joined #lisp 2015-01-27T21:45:13Z vydd quit (Changing host) 2015-01-27T21:45:13Z vydd joined #lisp 2015-01-27T21:46:14Z matthewhill joined #lisp 2015-01-27T21:46:16Z milosn joined #lisp 2015-01-27T21:46:18Z matthewhill quit (Client Quit) 2015-01-27T21:47:58Z JokesOnYou77: I'm trying to call a macroletted macro on a list defined inthe enclosing scope but the macro is only seeing the symbol value of what I'm passing it, not the value stored at that place, how can I get it to use the value of the argument? 2015-01-27T21:49:39Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/) 2015-01-27T21:49:42Z Bicyclidine: macros don't evaluate their arguments unless you tell them to. i'm not sure i understand why you want to do this, though, could you paste and/or give a bit of context? 2015-01-27T21:51:04Z dlowe quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net) 2015-01-27T21:51:14Z rolando` quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.0.50.1)) 2015-01-27T21:53:10Z fantazo joined #lisp 2015-01-27T21:53:10Z JokesOnYou77: Bicyclidine, macro to define a function for every element in a list: http://paste.lisp.org/display/145414 Been trying to understand most of the day 2015-01-27T21:55:04Z JokesOnYou77: NAMES is not of type list. And stepping through the debugger reveals that it is indeed not a list. 2015-01-27T21:55:10Z Grue`: macros do code transformation 2015-01-27T21:55:38Z Grue`: it doesn't care what the value of 'names is 2015-01-27T21:55:57Z Bicyclidine: NAMES is a symbol. 2015-01-27T21:56:29Z Bicyclidine: As a macro you'd use it like (foo (b c d)). 2015-01-27T21:56:43Z Bicyclidine: If you want a runtime list, you should be using a function rather than a macro, really. 2015-01-27T21:57:07Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-01-27T21:57:09Z nyef: Except that this is producing DEFUNs, which should be top-level and compile-time. 2015-01-27T21:57:31Z JokesOnYou77: Ahh, this makes sense then. I think I'm overoptimizing now 2015-01-27T21:57:40Z nyef: This is one of those cases where you might use SYMBOL-VALUE or even (dare I say it?) EVAL... 2015-01-27T21:58:15Z ivan\ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T21:58:23Z ivan\ joined #lisp 2015-01-27T21:58:34Z Bicyclidine: nyef: if there's a runtime list in a let it's not very toplevel... 2015-01-27T21:58:46Z nyef: Right, that's a bit much. 2015-01-27T21:59:07Z Bicyclidine: it's kind of a weird thing to do in the first place. irc help is fun! 2015-01-27T21:59:12Z JokesOnYou77: Bicyclidine, the let is just for the listener. I have a few top-level lists of names for functions 2015-01-27T22:00:04Z nand1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T22:00:17Z Grue`: so you have (defparameter .....) where defparameter is already a macro; why not (def-functions ....) instead 2015-01-27T22:00:35Z JokesOnYou77: Well, yes, it is odd. It's partially an experiment, I could just write all of the functions by hand but I know Lisp could do this so I thought I'd try and figure it out. 2015-01-27T22:01:28Z Grue`: i mean, write a macro def-functions that replaces the defparameter where you define the list of functions 2015-01-27T22:01:37Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T22:01:42Z Jirachier quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2015-01-27T22:02:24Z JokesOnYou77: I just have a list of symbols ('a 'b 'c) And I want to ba able to call (a "foo") 2015-01-27T22:02:34Z Jirachier joined #lisp 2015-01-27T22:03:52Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp 2015-01-27T22:03:55Z otwieracz: Hey! 2015-01-27T22:04:04Z otwieracz: I've got tactical question! 2015-01-27T22:04:09Z Grue`: you can have both, in fact. a single macro can expand to several defuns as well as define a global variable that contains the list of functions 2015-01-27T22:04:20Z otwieracz: Let's assume that I want to recommend a "startup" to some company 2015-01-27T22:04:30Z otwieracz: With OpenCV, maybe Hadoop later. 2015-01-27T22:04:43Z nell quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.2-dev) 2015-01-27T22:04:47Z otwieracz: And, of course, I want to use Common Lisp here. 2015-01-27T22:04:47Z rotty quit (Quit: leaving) 2015-01-27T22:04:57Z otwieracz: But I will be asked *why* 2015-01-27T22:05:10Z otwieracz: Why not C++, which has better OpenCV bindings, and has bindings for everything. 2015-01-27T22:05:24Z otwieracz: I mean, argument "I like lisp" has no business value. 2015-01-27T22:05:33Z rotty joined #lisp 2015-01-27T22:05:39Z zeitue joined #lisp 2015-01-27T22:05:41Z otwieracz: And business values values where someone is investing money. 2015-01-27T22:05:55Z JokesOnYou77: I actually have 3 lists of symbols and each should become that do one of three things. I wanted to generalize this one macro so that it could jsut take in a list. I can already just replace symbols with the global var I have but I wanted to see if it was doable another way. 2015-01-27T22:06:10Z otwieracz: Is there *any* rational reason why I should use Common Lisp other than my feelings? 2015-01-27T22:06:24Z Grue`: there's no reason to write anything in PHP, and yet people use it 2015-01-27T22:06:27Z nyef: otwieracz: Honestly? My current feeling is that if you have to justify your choice of implementation technology, you're in the wrong business. d-: 2015-01-27T22:06:58Z eudoxia: otwieracz: well, why do you like common lisp? where do you see its value to you? 2015-01-27T22:07:28Z Grue`: I was recently asked during a job interview, why did I write my website in CL, I just showed the source code with a lot of macros and was like "in any other language this will be 10 times as long" 2015-01-27T22:08:02Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-01-27T22:08:15Z mrcom: froggey: build note; OSX 10.10.1 (Yosemite), Apple LLVM 6.0 (clang-600.0.56); quicklib 2015-01-13; (ql:quickload :iolib) dies because needs libfixposix; "'lpf.h' file not found" 2015-01-27T22:08:17Z zadock quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-01-27T22:08:34Z otwieracz: eudoxia: I love the feeling when I spent lot of time thinking *how* something should be done with Lisp, and then I write few magic lines and everything does exactly right. 2015-01-27T22:08:39Z Shinmera: mrcom: Well do you have libfixposix installed? 2015-01-27T22:08:53Z otwieracz: eudoxia: Where in similar case I will not think but write tents of Java code lines. 2015-01-27T22:08:59Z mrcom: Shinmera: nope, just noting a needed prereq 2015-01-27T22:09:18Z otwieracz: eudoxia: in CL I focues on problem, not on language. 2015-01-27T22:09:22Z eudoxia: otwieracz: well, there's the value 2015-01-27T22:09:33Z Xach: otwieracz: "Lisp supports meta-solutions which not only pay off more and more in the long run, but which also require greater design effort up front. If anything a Lisper tortoise seems to be going slower than the hacker hare because the tortoise is still at the starting line building a rocket sled." 2015-01-27T22:09:50Z eudoxia: otwieracz: for binding C++, one thing you can try is the "hourglass pattern", where you write some code in C++, some C bindings for that code, and then as much real code as possible in CL 2015-01-27T22:10:03Z Grue`: then again, the website I'm currently making, I'd be able to write it in Django in a few days but in CL I have to reinvent the bicycles 2015-01-27T22:10:21Z ejbs quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-01-27T22:10:23Z Shinmera: Grue`: do you have to or do you want to 2015-01-27T22:10:51Z otwieracz: Xach: Thtat's wise sentence. 2015-01-27T22:10:56Z Grue`: well, I certainly don't want to 2015-01-27T22:11:24Z otwieracz: Xach: And that might be the business point. 2015-01-27T22:11:38Z froggey: mrcom: ok, I'll make a note of that 2015-01-27T22:11:43Z Xach: otwieracz: that's from smilin' kenny tilton from some years back 2015-01-27T22:11:56Z Grue`: at least my Django-like web form library would be pretty sweet once I'm done with it 2015-01-27T22:12:16Z froggey: there's no way to get quicklisp to install libfixposix automatically, is there? 2015-01-27T22:12:52Z robot-beethoven joined #lisp 2015-01-27T22:12:56Z antoszka: froggey: i just grabbed it from github and installed into /usr/local 2015-01-27T22:13:37Z mrSpec quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T22:13:45Z Shinmera: froggey: You could write an ASDF system that does the build. 2015-01-27T22:14:32Z jasom: on sbcl, are FASLs compatible with the same version, but different feature flags? 2015-01-27T22:16:29Z nyef: jasom: There's a list somewhere, *features-affecting-fasl-format*. 2015-01-27T22:16:44Z Lokathor joined #lisp 2015-01-27T22:17:40Z heurist joined #lisp 2015-01-27T22:19:26Z Xach: froggey: no - it requires a c compiler 2015-01-27T22:21:25Z pchrist_ is now known as pchrist 2015-01-27T22:21:35Z froggey: ok, I'll just put a note in the build instructions 2015-01-27T22:21:38Z PinealGlandOptic joined #lisp 2015-01-27T22:21:51Z enitiz joined #lisp 2015-01-27T22:21:57Z mrcom: froggey: and autoconf-2.67 and automake-1.10 and... might be best just to list the dependency and list user figure out how they want to get it. 2015-01-27T22:22:34Z mrcom: nevermind 2015-01-27T22:23:51Z protist joined #lisp 2015-01-27T22:24:17Z zygentoma joined #lisp 2015-01-27T22:25:45Z enitiz quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-01-27T22:27:00Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T22:33:51Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-01-27T22:34:29Z genii quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-01-27T22:35:10Z Nop joined #lisp 2015-01-27T22:35:37Z mega1: Xach: the fix for the slime M-. interning issue is merged 2015-01-27T22:37:28Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp 2015-01-27T22:38:04Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2015-01-27T22:38:33Z Xach: mega1: cool. looking forward to a new release. 2015-01-27T22:38:42Z xificurC quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-27T22:39:23Z mega1: hmm, a release. What a concept. 2015-01-27T22:39:32Z ehu: heh. 2015-01-27T22:39:45Z ehu: yea. that's what you get when you take on maintenance of a library :-) 2015-01-27T22:39:57Z taspat quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-01-27T22:41:31Z mega1: not necessarily 2015-01-27T22:42:31Z ehu: well, maybe the concept of a stable branch works too. Dunno. I've preferred releases myself. 2015-01-27T22:42:32Z mega1: some quicklisp maintainer guy makes that kind of automatic for some libraries 2015-01-27T22:42:50Z ehu: although it's been a long time since I wrote some released lisp code. 2015-01-27T22:43:01Z Xach: luis makes regular releases 2015-01-27T22:43:04Z ehu: (I'm in the process of implementing a new library though) 2015-01-27T22:43:31Z mega1: what's that library? 2015-01-27T22:43:38Z ehu: if/when I ever get through the list of TODOs, that is. 2015-01-27T22:44:27Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2015-01-27T22:45:56Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-01-27T22:46:46Z Petit_Dejeuner joined #lisp 2015-01-27T22:47:56Z Alfr quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-01-27T22:51:41Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2015-01-27T22:52:12Z fridim_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-01-27T22:54:34Z Petit_Dejeuner_ joined #lisp 2015-01-27T22:55:16Z cadadar quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-01-27T22:55:23Z yrdz joined #lisp 2015-01-27T22:55:36Z Petit_Dejeuner quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-01-27T22:58:12Z kuzy000 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-01-27T23:02:24Z Aranshada|W quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-01-27T23:06:09Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2015-01-27T23:09:45Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-01-27T23:11:41Z taspat joined #lisp 2015-01-27T23:16:10Z urandom__ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2015-01-27T23:16:15Z Jirachier quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-01-27T23:16:20Z Nop quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-01-27T23:16:35Z Jirachier joined #lisp 2015-01-27T23:17:27Z ivan\ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-01-27T23:17:36Z ivan\ joined #lisp 2015-01-27T23:18:32Z Aranshada|W joined #lisp 2015-01-27T23:18:44Z newcup: froggey: great work! are you planning on adding audio drivers any time soon? :) 2015-01-27T23:18:49Z mrcom: froggey: (ql:quickload :lispos) "Package SB-CLTL2 does not exist". sbcl 1.2.6. (require :sb-cltl2) and then (ql:quickload :lispos) again fixed it. 2015-01-27T23:23:25Z nyef: mrcom: Sounds like your SBCL install may be a little odd. 2015-01-27T23:23:33Z froggey: newcup: yes! I used to have a working (on real hardware) HDA driver 2015-01-27T23:24:36Z Petit_Dejeuner_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-01-27T23:24:55Z froggey: mrcom: sorry, I broke that while fixing the package problems. I forgot that I was still using that and removed the dependency 2015-01-27T23:25:09Z Bicyclidine: what do you use it for, out of curiosity 2015-01-27T23:25:20Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-01-27T23:26:22Z ehu: froggey: does it implement its own compiler? 2015-01-27T23:26:44Z froggey: only for checking if variables are constant, I think I can just replace it with CONSTANTP 2015-01-27T23:26:49Z froggey: ehu: yes 2015-01-27T23:26:50Z newcup: froggey: intel HDA? with midi? I'm just thinking of porting stuff to mezzanine... :) 2015-01-27T23:27:25Z enitiz joined #lisp 2015-01-27T23:27:59Z dim: jasom: did you try http://marijnhaverbeke.nl/cl-tk/ or have an opinion on it? 2015-01-27T23:28:00Z thatsnotjack quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T23:28:10Z ehu: nice work indeed. 2015-01-27T23:28:15Z Shinmera snickers https://filebox.tymoon.eu/file/TXpBNQ== 2015-01-27T23:28:51Z froggey: yes, Intel HDA, but no MIDI. I do actually have a MIDI controller I could test, but it's USB and there's no USB stack 2015-01-27T23:28:53Z dim: after all cl-tk has support for wish backend, and I've been using Marijn work before 2015-01-27T23:29:35Z nyef: froggey: Oddly enough, I have a small amount of experience working with USB from Lisp. 2015-01-27T23:30:32Z Petit_Dejeuner_ joined #lisp 2015-01-27T23:30:40Z froggey: that's more than I have. using something like libusb? 2015-01-27T23:31:00Z nyef: Talking to the Linux kernel directly via IOCTLs. 2015-01-27T23:32:07Z nyef: A little bit like libusb, I guess. 2015-01-27T23:32:19Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-27T23:32:24Z flash- quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-01-27T23:32:39Z flash- joined #lisp 2015-01-27T23:35:45Z vydd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-27T23:40:48Z newcup: is midi over usb a hid class? 2015-01-27T23:41:44Z newcup: sorry, off topic 2015-01-27T23:44:55Z defaultxr joined #lisp 2015-01-27T23:46:41Z resttime quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-01-27T23:47:11Z jlongster joined #lisp 2015-01-27T23:47:48Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 276 seconds) 2015-01-27T23:49:12Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-01-27T23:49:59Z Denommus joined #lisp 2015-01-27T23:50:49Z harish_ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-01-27T23:50:50Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2015-01-27T23:51:18Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-01-27T23:51:23Z fantazo quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2015-01-27T23:52:28Z waschen joined #lisp 2015-01-27T23:52:35Z harish joined #lisp 2015-01-27T23:53:13Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。) 2015-01-27T23:55:06Z spacebat` quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2015-01-27T23:55:35Z newcup: (usb audio is an own usb class, includes midi, could be a lot of work to implement in mezzanine) 2015-01-27T23:56:52Z resttime joined #lisp 2015-01-27T23:58:37Z jasom: dim: I've seen that but haven't tried it; it looks like it doesn't provide a lispy interface the way that ltk does 2015-01-27T23:59:34Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)