2015-01-10T00:00:40Z nyef: You know what'd be neat? Getting the rights to the TI LispM materials. 2015-01-10T00:00:52Z Xach: narrated by phil hartman 2015-01-10T00:01:40Z wasamasa: lispm: hmm, doesn't sound particularly hopeful 2015-01-10T00:01:44Z lispm: TI probably does not know it had that stuff 2015-01-10T00:02:22Z lispm: nyef: that would fun 2015-01-10T00:04:17Z slyrus joined #lisp 2015-01-10T00:06:21Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T00:12:58Z tadni quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T00:13:09Z nyef: ... am I going to run into any trouble with `(defun whatever (some-parameter) ... ,(if ... '`(,@some-parameter some-literal-data))) ? 2015-01-10T00:14:09Z tadni joined #lisp 2015-01-10T00:15:14Z antonv joined #lisp 2015-01-10T00:16:20Z joswig joined #lisp 2015-01-10T00:18:15Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-01-10T00:19:52Z lispm quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-10T00:20:41Z rpg quit (Quit: rpg) 2015-01-10T00:22:23Z joswig quit (Quit: joswig) 2015-01-10T00:26:03Z Zamenhof joined #lisp 2015-01-10T00:30:18Z jumblerg joined #lisp 2015-01-10T00:30:25Z Oladon_work quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-01-10T00:34:05Z nyef: Apparently, I am. Had to use a double-backquote instead. 2015-01-10T00:35:08Z dagnachew joined #lisp 2015-01-10T00:39:23Z nyef: In retrospect, I probably should have known that. 2015-01-10T00:41:45Z pjb: - 2015-01-10T00:43:51Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-01-10T00:46:28Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-01-10T00:49:08Z defaultxr joined #lisp 2015-01-10T00:49:57Z Jini joined #lisp 2015-01-10T00:53:27Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-01-10T00:55:44Z theseb joined #lisp 2015-01-10T00:55:57Z Vutral joined #lisp 2015-01-10T00:55:59Z eivarv joined #lisp 2015-01-10T00:58:45Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-01-10T01:04:25Z Jini quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-01-10T01:05:53Z Bike joined #lisp 2015-01-10T01:09:05Z Dynasty joined #lisp 2015-01-10T01:10:44Z nhunzaker joined #lisp 2015-01-10T01:12:37Z k-dawg joined #lisp 2015-01-10T01:15:19Z moses joined #lisp 2015-01-10T01:15:30Z moses: is this for the lisp programming language? 2015-01-10T01:15:32Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2015-01-10T01:15:38Z Xach: moses: common lisp 2015-01-10T01:15:40Z Oladon: Specifically the Common Lisp dialect, yes 2015-01-10T01:15:44Z moses: im looking for scheme 2015-01-10T01:15:46Z moses: actually 2015-01-10T01:15:54Z Oladon: There's a ##lisp 2015-01-10T01:16:07Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-01-10T01:16:28Z Xach: moses: there's a #scheme 2015-01-10T01:16:34Z nhunzaker left #lisp 2015-01-10T01:16:45Z moses: ty 2015-01-10T01:18:23Z Oladon: That too 2015-01-10T01:23:11Z hrs joined #lisp 2015-01-10T01:24:16Z attila_lendvai quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-01-10T01:24:38Z moses quit (Quit: leaving) 2015-01-10T01:25:17Z kcj joined #lisp 2015-01-10T01:28:37Z rtra quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-01-10T01:30:53Z Pixel_Outlaw joined #lisp 2015-01-10T01:31:39Z Pixel_Outlaw: Any interesting personal projects out there? I always like to hear what others are up to with Lisp. 2015-01-10T01:33:59Z Oladon: Pixel_Outlaw: "interesting" is entirely in the domain of the viewer/hearer :) 2015-01-10T01:34:17Z rtra joined #lisp 2015-01-10T01:34:22Z Oladon: I'm pretty sure any programmer is going to consider their own projects to be interesting. 2015-01-10T01:34:53Z Pixel_Outlaw: Sure, hopefully enough that they complete their project or recreation. 2015-01-10T01:35:06Z Oladon: There's the rub, isn't it :P 2015-01-10T01:35:22Z Oladon: I came home from work tonight intent on working on at least one of my two main projects 2015-01-10T01:37:08Z Oladon: What I really need, of course, is to find someone who'll pay me to make one or both of them... 2015-01-10T01:37:39Z Pixel_Outlaw: Or just a body that could collect money for being at your workplace. 2015-01-10T01:37:43Z nyef: There's no "of course" about it. 2015-01-10T01:37:58Z Oladon: nyef: You mean that isn't every programmer's dream? 2015-01-10T01:38:09Z Oladon: Pixel_Outlaw: well, and doing my job there, yeah 2015-01-10T01:38:42Z Pixel_Outlaw: I worked at a fortune 500 company using horrible tools like TIBCO. I longed for programming all day long but found that by the end of the day I was too taxed to get much done. 2015-01-10T01:39:26Z zRecursive joined #lisp 2015-01-10T01:39:33Z Oladon: Pixel_Outlaw: Yeah, that's where I tend to find myself a lot of the time... even while being interested and excited about the projects I have going on at home 2015-01-10T01:39:34Z nyef: Certainly isn't mine. What I want is to find something to make that multiple people are willing to pay for, so that I can spend the rest of my time doing interesting things. 2015-01-10T01:39:55Z Pixel_Outlaw: I think healthcare and insurance/banking industry has an avoidance to programmers and reliance on high level tools and middleware. 2015-01-10T01:40:22Z nyef: Sounds like an opportunity to make high-level tools and/or middleware. 2015-01-10T01:40:30Z Oladon: nyef: Yours is probably more realistic :) 2015-01-10T01:40:51Z nyef: With the downside that selling into the healthcare, insurance, and banking industries is probably a high-touch process. 2015-01-10T01:41:18Z Pixel_Outlaw: And much of it is simply storing and retrieving from giant Oracle and IBM databases. 2015-01-10T01:41:39Z Pixel_Outlaw: If you like database work then it could be OK. 2015-01-10T01:42:03Z nyef: ... Ever wrote CL code to try and parse RPG IV programs? 2015-01-10T01:42:10Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-01-10T01:42:49Z Pixel_Outlaw: nyef, that sounds like nightmare fuel. 2015-01-10T01:43:09Z nyef: Honestly, the worst part was that I was trying to use cygwin clisp with slime. 2015-01-10T01:43:13Z Oladon: heh 2015-01-10T01:43:14Z adlai: Pixel_Outlaw: https://github.com/adlai/scalpl#abstract 2015-01-10T01:43:24Z nyef: Every time I did anything, it broke, and hte arglist hinting was useless. 2015-01-10T01:43:55Z nyef: RPG itself was kindof interesting, in an "arcane secrets of the elder days" way. 2015-01-10T01:44:20Z Pixel_Outlaw: Sadly it is firmly anchored in proprietary implementations. 2015-01-10T01:44:44Z Pixel_Outlaw: adlai, sounds very business -y 2015-01-10T01:44:50Z nyef: Eh, just because it's primarily an as400 thing... 2015-01-10T01:45:25Z Xach is trying to get the quicklisp dist build up and running on ec2 so it can be run on 10-20 instances at once 2015-01-10T01:47:33Z akkad: nice 2015-01-10T01:47:41Z Pixel_Outlaw: nyef, IBM had their companies by the throat. Probably why quite a few companies are still running emulated versions of their old AS/400 systems. I worked in an IBM "shop" that used a product called websmart to convert webpages into RPG programs that their emulated AS/400 system could serve up. 2015-01-10T01:48:31Z nyef: Sounds about right. 2015-01-10T01:48:31Z adlai: this has to be the worst article title ever... "RPG for COBOL programmers" 2015-01-10T01:48:38Z Pixel_Outlaw: Wonder if they ever offered any Lisp varients for the old IBM systems? 2015-01-10T01:48:41Z adlai: (link itself is dead) 2015-01-10T01:49:02Z nyef: CMUCL used to run on the IBM RT, but I don't know if that counts. 2015-01-10T01:50:09Z Pixel_Outlaw: I guess you could find a C implementation and simply compile on the IBM server? Not sure how well handling filestreams and stuff would go. 2015-01-10T01:50:17Z nyef: Actually, wait, didn't Lucid offer their CL implementation for some IBM platform? 2015-01-10T01:51:13Z yenda joined #lisp 2015-01-10T01:52:41Z bb010g joined #lisp 2015-01-10T01:52:59Z drdanmaku joined #lisp 2015-01-10T01:55:00Z cstacy joined #lisp 2015-01-10T01:55:13Z Dynasty quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91.1 [Firefox 34.0.5/20141126041045]) 2015-01-10T01:55:41Z yenda quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T01:56:12Z zeitue quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-01-10T01:57:57Z cstacy quit (Client Quit) 2015-01-10T01:58:35Z Oladon: Alright, codin' time. 2015-01-10T01:59:24Z Pixel_Outlaw: It is dangerous to go alone, here take this. 2015-01-10T01:59:29Z Pixel_Outlaw hands Oladon a REPL 2015-01-10T01:59:38Z Oladon: I shall treasure it always. 2015-01-10T01:59:50Z stepnem joined #lisp 2015-01-10T02:03:22Z nyef: Nice Zelda reference! (-: 2015-01-10T02:04:45Z akkad: the RT count for anything there than a space heater? 2015-01-10T02:08:49Z nyef: akkad: It falls under one of the options for one of the classes of SBCL port. 2015-01-10T02:10:02Z akkad: if you need hardware for ports that's not x86 let me know :P 2015-01-10T02:10:28Z akkad: although all this is running netbsd these days. http://linbsd.org/rack.png 2015-01-10T02:11:44Z zeitue joined #lisp 2015-01-10T02:12:25Z zRecursive quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T02:14:07Z yenda joined #lisp 2015-01-10T02:15:03Z nyef: I'm not so much hurting for hardware as for software. Linux doesn't run on SGI IP35. /-: 2015-01-10T02:15:18Z Bike quit (Quit: restart) 2015-01-10T02:16:30Z Bike joined #lisp 2015-01-10T02:16:39Z Pixel_Outlaw: nyef, I use Linux and often find that I'd like to actually need a program I don't have. 2015-01-10T02:16:54Z Pixel_Outlaw: All the more reason to develop tools. 2015-01-10T02:19:03Z Oladon: Gah, I can't remember what I was last working on in this project. 2015-01-10T02:21:29Z akkad: oh yeah someone sent me AIX media for those 43ps 2015-01-10T02:21:41Z eivarv quit 2015-01-10T02:25:10Z zRecursive joined #lisp 2015-01-10T02:25:13Z Pixel_Outlaw: I kind of want to start a project to do basic 2D technical drawings. I'm writing a game and am doing the shapes as line primitives. Kind of debating LTK. 2015-01-10T02:25:31Z Oladon: Pixel_Outlaw: what kind of game you writing? 2015-01-10T02:26:23Z Pixel_Outlaw: It is 2D shooting game for 1 or more players. Single player has an adventure mode and multi player is a battle mode. You fly a small space capsule around and shoot at enemies while traversing the levels. 2015-01-10T02:26:28Z doomlord_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T02:26:34Z Oladon: Cool :) 2015-01-10T02:26:43Z Oladon: I'm also working on a game, of sorts 2015-01-10T02:26:47Z Pixel_Outlaw: Unfortunately it is C++. I'd write the tool to generate shapes in Lisp though.' 2015-01-10T02:26:50Z Pixel_Outlaw: Oh? 2015-01-10T02:27:39Z Oladon: It's more of an engine with a game built on top... a computerization of a popular PnP role-playing game system. 2015-01-10T02:28:48Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-01-10T02:28:51Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2015-01-10T02:29:01Z akkad ponders how different the old Franz Lisp is from CL 2015-01-10T02:29:06Z Pixel_Outlaw: Ah neat! 2015-01-10T02:29:33Z Oladon: It's fun. It's one of those projects that's way, waaaaay too big, but eh. 2015-01-10T02:29:48Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-01-10T02:30:00Z towodo joined #lisp 2015-01-10T02:31:29Z echo-area joined #lisp 2015-01-10T02:31:42Z hrs quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]) 2015-01-10T02:33:07Z Pixel_Outlaw: I need to learn all about networking for making games I just don't know where to dig in. 2015-01-10T02:33:40Z Pixel_Outlaw: I see most CL implementations have support for networking between programs. 2015-01-10T02:35:21Z Oladon: Pixel_Outlaw: I have bad news. 2015-01-10T02:35:24Z Oladon: That REPL you gave me? 2015-01-10T02:37:42Z zRecursi` joined #lisp 2015-01-10T02:38:18Z Quadrescence joined #lisp 2015-01-10T02:38:44Z Pixel_Outlaw: Oladon, yes? 2015-01-10T02:38:51Z Oladon: I seem to have... well... broken it. 2015-01-10T02:38:56Z Oladon: Happen to have another lying around? 2015-01-10T02:39:31Z Pixel_Outlaw: Yes, there is a sacred White REPL hidden somewhere in the mountains. Hidden by this blue centaur thing. 2015-01-10T02:39:36Z yenda: I have a newbie question : can macro be considered as some kind of compilers ? 2015-01-10T02:40:17Z zRecursive quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-10T02:40:25Z Oladon: Pixel_Outlaw: Excellent... thank you. 2015-01-10T02:41:39Z Pixel_Outlaw: I've had a time or two when my REPL went bonkers in Slime and I couldn't get it to stop. 2015-01-10T02:42:05Z Hexstream: Pixel_Outlaw: Try C-c C-c next time. 2015-01-10T02:42:09Z Oladon: Heh, yeah. This one's just... well, I'm sure it's not a bug in my code, so it must be a broken REPL. 2015-01-10T02:42:42Z Hexstream: Pixel_Outlaw: In more desperate cases you can do ",restart-inferior-lisp". 2015-01-10T02:43:11Z Oladon: Yeah, but then you lose your beautiful history buffer 2015-01-10T02:43:15Z Bike quit (Quit: one more restart) 2015-01-10T02:43:15Z Oladon: err 2015-01-10T02:43:18Z Oladon: not in that case 2015-01-10T02:43:25Z Oladon: But you do lose your current environment 2015-01-10T02:43:28Z Oladon: which is most unfortunate 2015-01-10T02:43:38Z Hexstream: Better than staying stuck forever. 2015-01-10T02:43:47Z Oladon: Some might think so. 2015-01-10T02:43:49Z Oladon: :P 2015-01-10T02:43:57Z eivarv joined #lisp 2015-01-10T02:44:46Z Hexstream: yenda: A macro is simply a function of two arguments (a form and an environment) invoked at compile-time. The function returns a "lower-level" form based on the form that was passed as argument. 2015-01-10T02:45:51Z Pixel_Outlaw: I've been watching the old SICP videos and I don't know that the cover macros. Are they a newer concept in Lisps? 2015-01-10T02:45:57Z Pixel_Outlaw: *they 2015-01-10T02:46:19Z Oladon: SICP is based on Scheme, which doesn't have CL-like macros 2015-01-10T02:46:29Z Oladon: well, not based on, but... you know. 2015-01-10T02:46:40Z Pixel_Outlaw: I noted that, I find the CL macros much more clear. 2015-01-10T02:46:44Z Oladon: :) 2015-01-10T02:46:54Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...) 2015-01-10T02:47:11Z Pixel_Outlaw: I do not totally agree with them making tail recursion optional in CL. But users should be encouraged to loop I suppose. 2015-01-10T02:47:37Z Xach: Should be encouraged to use a solution that fits the problem. 2015-01-10T02:47:51Z Quadrescence: hm, I wonder why people find pattern matching so confusion. that's all (standard) scheme macros are. 2015-01-10T02:48:10Z yenda: Hexstream: isn't it what a compiler does ? returning a "lower-level" form ? 2015-01-10T02:48:16Z |3b|: yenda: i'd think of it more as a hook for extending a compiler, or something like a "compiler plugin". Macros are just functions, so not inherently compilers, though you could put a compiler in one (same as you could with normal functions) 2015-01-10T02:48:42Z Quadrescence: confusing* 2015-01-10T02:48:42Z Hexstream: yenda: Yes, it's certainly a form of compilation. You could call it "source-to-source translation". 2015-01-10T02:48:46Z |3b|: yenda: does the function + 2015-01-10T02:48:53Z |3b|: return a 'lower level form"? 2015-01-10T02:49:04Z Bike joined #lisp 2015-01-10T02:50:24Z Hexstream: yenda: Except that traditional source is based on characters whereas the form argument and return value of macro functions are data structures. 2015-01-10T02:50:32Z impulse joined #lisp 2015-01-10T02:51:00Z zRecursi`: Quadrescence: There is cl-match 2015-01-10T02:51:28Z Quadrescence: And in Scheme there's almost always DEFINE-MACRO. :) 2015-01-10T02:51:54Z Pixel_Outlaw: Quadrescence, I just saw a lot of "define-syntax" and it was really confusing. 2015-01-10T02:52:25Z Quadrescence: Pixel_Outlaw, did you read what SYNTAX-RULES are? 2015-01-10T02:52:28Z Pixel_Outlaw: I understand CL's as more of a substitution with text and delayed expansion. 2015-01-10T02:52:47Z Oladon: Pixel_Outlaw: Eep, don't fall into the text substitution understanding trap 2015-01-10T02:52:48Z yenda: |3b|: well if the parameters are defined before compiled time then I guess after compilation you would have the result in compiled code am I right ? 2015-01-10T02:52:49Z Quadrescence: That is the wrong way to think about it, and I will posit that SYNTAX-RULES is actually simpler! 2015-01-10T02:52:50Z Pixel_Outlaw: Quadrescence, no I was looking for a good article to start with. 2015-01-10T02:53:50Z Xach: topicality prohibits me from mentioning jrm's "syntax-rules for the merely eccentric" 2015-01-10T02:53:54Z |3b|: yenda: my point is that macros aren't inherently "compilers" any more than + is, unless you define "compiler" generally enough to be useless 2015-01-10T02:54:10Z yenda: Hexstream: what confuses me is that lisp code is like a syntax tree, so any function that modifies the source code looks like a compiler to me 2015-01-10T02:54:49Z |3b|: probably a better example is CONS rather than + 2015-01-10T02:55:01Z doomlord_ joined #lisp 2015-01-10T02:55:37Z madrik quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-01-10T02:55:41Z |3b|: if CONS isn't a compiler normally, putting it in a macro doesn't make it one (and a large fraction of macros are more or less just complicated use of cons) 2015-01-10T02:56:19Z |3b|: alternately, does a macro stop being a 'compiler' if you call it on random data using macroexpand 2015-01-10T02:56:23Z yenda: |3b|: compiler plugin seems like a good way to describe them, it's a subset of a compiler then 2015-01-10T02:56:36Z |3b|: not really, just a way to extend one 2015-01-10T02:57:09Z |3b|: and since they are used to extend a compiler, they tend to do compiler-like things 2015-01-10T02:57:23Z yenda: |3b|: I'm trying to "get" them before using them so I'm not really familiar with them yet 2015-01-10T02:59:22Z yenda: At this point I'm pretty confused tbh 2015-01-10T02:59:48Z |3b|: CL has fairly simple evaluation rules, with 2 exceptions: macros and special operators 2015-01-10T03:00:24Z fsvehla joined #lisp 2015-01-10T03:00:33Z |3b|: a macro is just a function that is called during compilation, with the source of the arguments as opposed to a normal function which is called at runtime with the results of evaluating the arguments 2015-01-10T03:01:07Z |3b|: (and in CL "source" is made up of symbols, lists, etc as previously mentioned rather than just a sequence of characters as are used to define some languages) 2015-01-10T03:02:35Z |3b|: so if i have a function (foo a (+ 2 3)), it is called when evaluated, after evaluating the variable a to get some value, and after evaluating the list (+ 2 3) to get 5, with those 2 values as arguments 2015-01-10T03:02:58Z doomlord_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-01-10T03:02:58Z Quadrescence quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2015-01-10T03:03:21Z |3b|: if i have a macro (bar a (+ 2 3)), it is called before that form is evaluated (or during compilation), with the symbol a and the list (+ 2 3) as arguments, then the form returned by it is evaluated or compiled in its place 2015-01-10T03:03:53Z |3b|: "it is called" should probably be "the macro is expanded", which involves calling the macro function 2015-01-10T03:08:50Z yenda: ok thanks for the explanation, so the macro itself is not a compiler, rather some kind of a language shortcut previously defined by the user. 2015-01-10T03:09:53Z |3b|: 'language shortcut' sounds like an oversimplification as well, since macros can be arbitrarily complex 2015-01-10T03:10:54Z kapil__ joined #lisp 2015-01-10T03:13:29Z yenda: well I guess I'm gonna give them a try, practice will give me a better understanding 2015-01-10T03:13:49Z |3b|: most important thing to learn about macros is to learn not to use them :) 2015-01-10T03:14:20Z |3b|: (they are useful, and should be used when needed, but it is very easy to overestimate that 'need' when first exposed to them) 2015-01-10T03:15:01Z |3b|: frequently, macros should just expand to function calls that do most of the work 2015-01-10T03:15:18Z nyef: For what it's worth, I burned out that need to overuse macros on my second serious lisp project. After that, they were just a tool to use when appropriate. 2015-01-10T03:16:10Z theseb: yenda: do you know C? 2015-01-10T03:16:17Z yenda: yes 2015-01-10T03:16:25Z madrik joined #lisp 2015-01-10T03:16:33Z theseb: yenda: macros are somewhat like the C preprocessor 2015-01-10T03:16:37Z theseb: yenda: but can do a lot more 2015-01-10T03:16:55Z Hexstream: theseb: I think it's a pretty bad analogy. 2015-01-10T03:17:02Z Xach: so bad. 2015-01-10T03:17:24Z nyef: That's a dreadful analogy. 2015-01-10T03:17:38Z theseb: Whoa...hold up...the point is we need to relate it to something he knows 2015-01-10T03:17:39Z nyef: C preprocessor macros always break. Always. Sort of like source filters in Perl. 2015-01-10T03:17:51Z hiyosi quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2015-01-10T03:21:23Z MrWoohoo quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]) 2015-01-10T03:21:29Z yenda: Thanks for your help guys, I'm going back to redaing the books 2015-01-10T03:21:57Z Xach: theseb: no, it isn't. 2015-01-10T03:22:20Z Xach: theseb: and if it was, starting from something as dissimilar as the C preprocessor is going in the wrong direction. 2015-01-10T03:28:36Z nyef: Mmm. The abuses that I heaped upon the C preprocessor are straightforward and normal in CL, and the things that I do on a regular basis with CL macros simply can't be done with the C preprocessor. 2015-01-10T03:31:00Z atgreen quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-01-10T03:32:21Z atgreen joined #lisp 2015-01-10T03:32:39Z Pixel_Outlaw: nyef, could be worse, lets throw some C++ templates into the mix 2015-01-10T03:32:52Z nyef: Let's not. 2015-01-10T03:32:59Z Pixel_Outlaw: >:} 2015-01-10T03:33:10Z nyef: I found C++ to be hard enough to tolerate BEFORE they added templates to the languaeg. 2015-01-10T03:33:15Z nyef: Err... language. 2015-01-10T03:34:10Z Pixel_Outlaw: I now call it Template++. I'll stick with the flexibility of Lisp. I like being able to do things like put unlike types in a collection and write a function that handles anything with 1 definition. 2015-01-10T03:37:54Z drl joined #lisp 2015-01-10T03:37:54Z drl quit (Client Quit) 2015-01-10T03:39:18Z towodo quit (Quit: towodo) 2015-01-10T03:42:48Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T03:49:29Z Jirachier quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-01-10T03:49:48Z Quadrescence joined #lisp 2015-01-10T03:51:05Z MoALTz_ joined #lisp 2015-01-10T03:54:27Z yenda: so when the syntax tree is parsed, if a macro is found it's expanded before going further, whereas if a function is, its arguments are evaluated first 2015-01-10T03:54:35Z MoALTz quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-01-10T03:56:48Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2015-01-10T03:58:33Z nikki93 joined #lisp 2015-01-10T03:59:07Z Hexstream: clhs 3 2015-01-10T03:59:07Z specbot: Evaluation and Compilation: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_.htm 2015-01-10T03:59:37Z Hexstream: yenda: It's a good idea to read the whole chapter. This includes treatment of macros... 2015-01-10T04:00:35Z yenda: Ok thanks, finishing the macro chapter in Practical Common Lisp first, was my statement wrong ? 2015-01-10T04:03:25Z capcar quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-01-10T04:04:16Z hrs joined #lisp 2015-01-10T04:05:59Z Hexstream: yenda: Note that there's a separate phase before evaluation and compilation, "reading", where characters are converted to the denoted objects. (type-of (read-from-string "(a b)")) => A 2015-01-10T04:06:57Z Hexstream: Oops, I mean, (car (read-from-string "(a b)")) => A (edit mistake) 2015-01-10T04:11:53Z zacharias_ joined #lisp 2015-01-10T04:12:22Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-10T04:13:39Z nycat- left #lisp 2015-01-10T04:14:41Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-01-10T04:19:49Z Hexstream: I just realized (map 'null #'identity "abc") is valid. o_o 2015-01-10T04:21:07Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-10T04:21:13Z hrs quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]) 2015-01-10T04:21:21Z urandom__ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2015-01-10T04:23:12Z yeticry joined #lisp 2015-01-10T04:29:20Z Vutral joined #lisp 2015-01-10T04:29:53Z beach joined #lisp 2015-01-10T04:30:00Z beach: Good morning everyone! 2015-01-10T04:31:13Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2015-01-10T04:32:04Z nyef: Hello beach. 2015-01-10T04:33:07Z Oladon: Morning beach 2015-01-10T04:33:18Z Oladon: Not morning here, of course, but I won't fault you fo rit 2015-01-10T04:33:20Z Oladon: for it* 2015-01-10T04:36:16Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-01-10T04:39:44Z pjb: Hexstream: it is not valid! 2015-01-10T04:40:11Z pjb: (map 'null whatever anything) must return NIL. If not, there's a type error. 2015-01-10T04:40:34Z pjb: Therefore (map 'null whatever anything) is valid only if (length anything) -> 0 2015-01-10T04:42:34Z pjb: Hexstream: clisp and ecl complain. 2015-01-10T04:42:36Z phadthai: SBCL seems to ignore that, but both CLISP and ECL indeed also error for me 2015-01-10T04:42:40Z pjb: while (map (quote null) (function identity) "") results in NIL in all implementations. 2015-01-10T04:43:17Z pjb: Once again, we see that clisp and ecl are superior implementations. 2015-01-10T04:43:29Z zRecursi` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T04:43:42Z Pixel_Outlaw: Also clisp gives you a fancy menorah upon startup. 2015-01-10T04:43:51Z eivarv quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-01-10T04:44:38Z eivarv joined #lisp 2015-01-10T04:45:08Z Hexstream: pjb: I think you're conflating with MAKE-SEQUENCE. Reading CLHS MAP, NULL is a subtype of LIST so I think SBCL has the correct behavior... 2015-01-10T04:45:24Z Hexstream: Or at least, a correct behavior. 2015-01-10T04:47:16Z pjb: clhs map result---if result-type is a type specifier other than nil, then a sequence of the type it denotes; 2015-01-10T04:47:21Z nyef: clhs map 2015-01-10T04:47:21Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_map.htm 2015-01-10T04:47:43Z pjb: (typep '(#\a #\b #\c) 'null) --> nil ; ccl, sbcl and cmucl are not consistent. 2015-01-10T04:48:07Z pjb: Inconsistent behavior cannot be correct. 2015-01-10T04:48:09Z nyef: Mmm. NULL is a subtype of LIST, so the result must be a list. 2015-01-10T04:48:26Z PinealGlandOptic joined #lisp 2015-01-10T04:48:58Z nyef: But it must ALSO be a NULL, which means NIL, which means a list of no elements. 2015-01-10T04:49:04Z pjb: No, the result must be of the type NULL, that means that the result must be NIL. 2015-01-10T04:50:50Z Hexstream: pjb: Ok, I guess you were right after all. 2015-01-10T04:51:11Z pjb: As always. Thanks. 2015-01-10T04:51:26Z nyef: The third paragraph of the description and the description of the result both apply. 2015-01-10T04:51:59Z |3b|: sounds like 3rd para of exceptional situations applies as well 2015-01-10T04:52:23Z nyef: Oh! Yeah, "consequences are undefined", the last sentence of the second paragraph of the description. 2015-01-10T04:52:50Z beach: If it weren't for the fact that I am not quite awake yet, I would have read this discussion more carefully in order to make a not that the issue should be clarified in Common Lisp version 2. 2015-01-10T04:53:24Z nyef: pjb: Sorry, this falls under the category of explicitly undefined behavior. 2015-01-10T04:53:26Z Hexstream: pjb: More like "as sometimes", or possibly "as often". ;P 2015-01-10T04:53:36Z pjb: ok. 2015-01-10T04:54:06Z pjb: nyef: it is explicitely defined that a type-error should be signaled. 2015-01-10T04:54:09Z pjb: This if written three times! 2015-01-10T04:54:34Z pjb: s/if/is/ 2015-01-10T04:54:41Z nyef: Umm... Where? 2015-01-10T04:54:53Z adlai quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2015-01-10T04:55:05Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T04:55:07Z nyef: Certainly not under "Exceptional Situations", unless you're counting it as specifying the number of elements. 2015-01-10T04:55:22Z pjb: Of course! What else does NULL mean??? 2015-01-10T04:55:34Z pjb: Incredible… 2015-01-10T04:55:40Z nikki93 joined #lisp 2015-01-10T04:56:00Z k-dawg quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2015-01-10T04:56:02Z nyef: It means (EQL NIL), of course. d-: 2015-01-10T04:56:13Z adlai joined #lisp 2015-01-10T04:56:53Z nyef: Hrm. Containing no elements. 2015-01-10T04:57:00Z nyef: You have an angle there, but it's a bit thin. 2015-01-10T04:57:36Z pjb: I promize I will never use a CL implementation written by you. 2015-01-10T04:57:54Z pacon joined #lisp 2015-01-10T04:58:02Z nyef: Given that :NIL would be on *FEATURES*, I'm not sure that I'd blame you. d-: 2015-01-10T04:59:22Z beach: pjb: Would you use a GUI toolkit written by him? [trying to change the subject] 2015-01-10T04:59:56Z beach: nyef: Speaking of which, how is NQ-CLIM going? :) 2015-01-10T05:00:06Z pjb: Would it work, if he consider that null doesn't imply that the length of the sequence must be 0? 2015-01-10T05:00:09Z nikki93 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-01-10T05:00:09Z nyef: Speaking of, no commits today. My streak stands at nine days. 2015-01-10T05:00:51Z beach: nyef: I told you that you can fake it easily. You change the date on your computer. Make a commit, change it back. Push. 2015-01-10T05:01:22Z nyef: And I told you that that would ruin it as far as a personal tracking tool goes. 2015-01-10T05:01:51Z nyef: Might be ten days, actually, but still. 2015-01-10T05:01:57Z beach: Oh, I can't remember your telling me that. Sorry about that. 2015-01-10T05:02:49Z nikki93 joined #lisp 2015-01-10T05:02:52Z MrWoohoo joined #lisp 2015-01-10T05:03:35Z echo-area quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T05:04:39Z beach: I really need to finish LOOP so that I can move on to the bootstrapping process. For some reason I am now bored with LOOP. On the other hand, it is pretty straightforward since I have the ANSI test suite. It means I can apply TDD. 2015-01-10T05:05:55Z nyef: I'm thinking to try to get NQ-CLIM to the point that I have streams working, possibly without scrolling, and then take a break. 2015-01-10T05:06:10Z beach: Oh. :( 2015-01-10T05:06:14Z beach: Careful though, ... 2015-01-10T05:06:31Z beach: If you take a break you need to have sufficient documentation so that you remember what you did. 2015-01-10T05:06:44Z beach: But maybe you don't have that problem. I certainly do. 2015-01-10T05:07:07Z beach: ... which is why I write many more comments these days. 2015-01-10T05:07:31Z madrik quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-01-10T05:09:55Z nyef: I put a goodly bit of context into my commit messages, at least. 2015-01-10T05:09:59Z fsvehla quit (Quit: fsvehla) 2015-01-10T05:10:13Z beach: Ah, I haven't look at those. 2015-01-10T05:11:24Z Pixel_Outlaw: I usually take advantage of using the string description at the top of functions. 2015-01-10T05:12:02Z beach: Pixel_Outlaw: You mean the docstring? That is meant for the client, not the maintainer. 2015-01-10T05:12:29Z Pixel_Outlaw: Yes. 2015-01-10T05:12:42Z |3b|: beach: no need to change computer date, you can build arbitrary commits without much work :) 2015-01-10T05:12:58Z beach: |3b|: Hah! OK. 2015-01-10T05:13:14Z |3b|: also, you don't need to take a break for documentation, since that can go in the repo too :) 2015-01-10T05:13:48Z nyef: |3b|: It's not take a break for documentation, it's make sure the documentation is there before you take a break so that you can pick it up again afterwards. 2015-01-10T05:14:08Z |3b|: nyef: ah, right i misread 2015-01-10T05:15:04Z Hexstream left #lisp 2015-01-10T05:20:15Z beach: In the "extrinsic HIR compiler" environment, I need LOOP, so I am writing it. But looping over hash tables and packages is implemented as with-...-iterator which are also macros, so I need to implement them. 2015-01-10T05:20:49Z beach: But since they are highly implementation-dependent, I will implement them by using the HOST with-...-iterator and making a list of all the result. That list will then be iterated over. 2015-01-10T05:21:08Z beach: Pretty weird, but I think it will work OK. 2015-01-10T05:22:38Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: mental process lost because happening stopped) 2015-01-10T05:23:55Z seg quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-01-10T05:25:53Z nyef: You're looking at an environment contamination issue by using host packages, you realize. 2015-01-10T05:26:08Z beach: Yes. 2015-01-10T05:26:32Z beach: The first generation of bootstrapping will use host data. 2015-01-10T05:26:40Z beach: Just thinking out loud. I need to come up with a good way of explaining what the "extrinsic HIR compiler environment" really is, because I think it is a neat trick that will simplify bootstrapping considerably. 2015-01-10T05:27:05Z nyef: It's... like a Forth metacompiler? 2015-01-10T05:27:24Z beach: I don't know how such a thing works. 2015-01-10T05:28:39Z nyef: I'm not about to push my disaster of a Forth system to github tonight. 2015-01-10T05:29:06Z beach: Heh. OK. 2015-01-10T05:29:10Z nyef: The basic idea is that it runs on a host Forth system and builds a target Forth system. 2015-01-10T05:29:24Z beach: OK, that much seems to be similar. 2015-01-10T05:30:04Z nyef: Suitable metacompiler design can deal with different CPUs, word widths, and so on. 2015-01-10T05:30:49Z nyef: My current system is self-hosting, but will also bootstrap from some version of Jonesforth, but it's resolutely 32-bit. 2015-01-10T05:31:09Z antonv quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-01-10T05:31:17Z beach: Do you have a compiler so that you can write most things in Forth? 2015-01-10T05:32:21Z beach: ... or is there a body of code that needs to be written in C or assembler? 2015-01-10T05:32:42Z nyef: A certain amount of the system is in assembler, but most of it is in Forth. 2015-01-10T05:33:32Z nyef: There are two basic methods for producing a Forth system. One is metacompilation, the other is laying out a full system image in an assembly file or in C. 2015-01-10T05:34:07Z nyef: My metacompiler spits out a Linux/x86 ELF executable file directly. 2015-01-10T05:34:14Z Pixel_Outlaw quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-01-10T05:34:15Z blahzik quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-01-10T05:34:24Z beach: I see. 2015-01-10T05:34:24Z nyef: So all of the assembler stuff uses a Forth assembler. 2015-01-10T05:35:29Z beach: Metacompilation sounds more like what I am planning to do. 2015-01-10T05:35:50Z nyef: I'm hoping to use it to produce a Forth system for my 65816 once that's bootstrapped, and also to experiment with various Forth implementation models. 2015-01-10T05:36:19Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-01-10T05:37:12Z beach: nyef: So did you actually understand from my explanations how the extrinsic HIR compiler environment works? That's pretty amazing if so. 2015-01-10T05:37:35Z nyef: There are only so many options. d-: 2015-01-10T05:37:45Z beach: I guess so. 2015-01-10T05:38:33Z nyef: You have a compiler. It is written in Lisp, takes Lisp as input, and produces code for some sort of target environment. 2015-01-10T05:39:02Z nyef: And you're trying to run it on a host but operate in terms of a target that is at least somewhat isolated from the host. 2015-01-10T05:39:05Z beach: Sounds so obvious when you put it that way. 2015-01-10T05:39:50Z nyef: An awful lot of things that are tricky to implement, or tricky to understand when you come at them from the details, are "obvious" when looked at from the right perspective. 2015-01-10T05:40:02Z nyef: ... But sometimes that perspective is really, really cockeyed. 2015-01-10T05:40:18Z beach: Sound advice. 2015-01-10T05:41:02Z beach: Of course the "cockeyed" perspective is what I have at the moment, because that is how I understood what I am doing. I need to change that when I explain it to others. 2015-01-10T05:41:37Z nyef: Well, no. You have the head-full-of-details perspective. 2015-01-10T05:41:54Z beach: Yeah, OK. 2015-01-10T05:42:25Z beach: Now that I have decided that using the MOP is OK for bootstrapping, I will implement SHARED-INITIALIZE in the target environment operating on host data, using only STANDARD-INSTANCE-ACCESS and friends. 2015-01-10T05:42:34Z zeitue quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-01-10T05:42:57Z nyef: ... THIS sounds like it'll be interesting. 2015-01-10T05:43:36Z beach: To me it is totally exciting. But maybe it really isn't. I don't know yet. 2015-01-10T05:43:39Z nyef: I can handle using CLOS, but I'm lost when it comes to MOPpery, and I haven't the slightest clue about using CLOS during bootstrap. 2015-01-10T05:44:30Z beach: I had to give it a lot of thought, because I want to bootstrap CLOS first, so that I have all the class machinery going. 2015-01-10T05:44:55Z beach: Plus, in SICL I implement the standard built-in classes using CLOS as well. 2015-01-10T05:44:56Z nyef: And I come from an SBCL perspective, where the compiler was written pre-CLOS, and PCL was a bolt-on. 2015-01-10T05:45:10Z beach: Yes, and that is exactly what I want to change. 2015-01-10T05:46:39Z blahzik joined #lisp 2015-01-10T05:48:27Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2015-01-10T05:48:44Z beach: There is this idea of bootstrapping a Common Lisp system that seems to think that one must start with something more primitive like C or C++ and gradually build up Common Lisp. But I don't have the time and energy to write large parts of the system assuming I don't have the full language available. So I had to do it differently. 2015-01-10T05:49:57Z beach: It might have been a valid perspective 20 years ago when there were no complete Common Lisp systems available to bootstrap with. 2015-01-10T05:50:40Z nyef: You still run into issues with use-before-definition of things, but yeah. 2015-01-10T05:51:09Z nyef: For SBCL, it seems like the first stage is to get most of a CLtL1 system up and going, and then bring in the CLtL2 bits. 2015-01-10T05:51:11Z beach: I would rather try to deal with those than to cripple my development environment. 2015-01-10T05:51:24Z nyef: (or the ANSI bits, whichever way you look at it.) 2015-01-10T05:51:29Z oleo is now known as Guest71432 2015-01-10T05:51:32Z beach: Sure, that seems natural, given the history of the system. 2015-01-10T05:51:53Z beach: But I have the luxury of not having to take history into account. :) 2015-01-10T05:52:09Z nyef: There is that. (-: 2015-01-10T05:52:39Z beach: And if all goes well, I can get some papers published in the process. 2015-01-10T05:53:13Z oleo__ joined #lisp 2015-01-10T05:53:16Z zRecursive joined #lisp 2015-01-10T05:53:17Z nyef: Ah, right, "document or die", was it? 2015-01-10T05:54:10Z beach: Almost. 2015-01-10T05:54:24Z Guest71432 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-10T05:55:52Z jessethegame joined #lisp 2015-01-10T05:56:00Z zeitue joined #lisp 2015-01-10T05:56:00Z hiyosi quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com) 2015-01-10T05:56:58Z beach: Papers are a nice by-product. The interesting part is discovering new and better ways of doing things. 2015-01-10T05:58:33Z ggole joined #lisp 2015-01-10T05:58:39Z pacon quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-01-10T05:58:58Z jessethegame: Hey, I'm a rookie. Not sure if it's good form to ask here but I'll give it a go. I'm trying to have a function that takes two lists and moves a number of elements from one to the other, and I want that to happen in place/destructively. What would be a/the recommended approach? 2015-01-10T05:59:22Z jessethegame: (common lisp) 2015-01-10T05:59:41Z pacon joined #lisp 2015-01-10T06:00:07Z nyef: Given that you're operating on places, not merely lists, you'll need a macro. 2015-01-10T06:00:07Z beach: jessethegame: You can't do that with a function in general. If the other list is empty, you can't destructively modify it. 2015-01-10T06:00:16Z Vutral joined #lisp 2015-01-10T06:00:33Z jessethegame: Yay, that'll be my first macro :) 2015-01-10T06:01:37Z enitiz quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-01-10T06:01:49Z jessethegame: Thanks, that was very helpful 2015-01-10T06:02:58Z beach: Is it just an exercise, or does it have a specific purpose? 2015-01-10T06:04:00Z nyef: Okay, it's gone 1 AM. I need to get some sleep. 2015-01-10T06:04:08Z nyef quit (Quit: G'night all) 2015-01-10T06:04:31Z beach: jessethegame: I am asking because in production code there are a number of ways around this limitation. You can use a "sentinel" so that the empty list is represented by a single CONS cell. 2015-01-10T06:05:32Z jessethegame: I'm building a tiny library for a SET! server (a card game), I need to move cards from the deck to the table 2015-01-10T06:06:00Z Zhivago: Can you consider them as stacks? 2015-01-10T06:06:09Z jessethegame: sure 2015-01-10T06:06:12Z pjb: jessethegame: you can do that with a function in general, just like DELETE does it. 2015-01-10T06:06:28Z beach: jessethegame: Then you would wrap your lists in class instances representing "stack" and "table" and the problem goes away. 2015-01-10T06:06:34Z pjb: jessethegame: only now, since you are processing two lists, you need two arguments, and two resulting values. 2015-01-10T06:06:45Z Zhivago: Perhaps push and pop will suffice? 2015-01-10T06:07:04Z pjb: jessethegame: and you need to call it as: (multiple-value-setq (list-a list-b) (shuffle-elements-between-lists list-a list-b)) 2015-01-10T06:07:10Z jessethegame: I'm looking for (transfer deck table 3) 2015-01-10T06:07:25Z beach: jessethegame: Then you would not represent deck and table by lists. 2015-01-10T06:07:40Z beach: jessethegame: They would be class instances CONTAINING lists. 2015-01-10T06:08:07Z Zhivago: So (push (pop deck) table) would handle one? 2015-01-10T06:09:35Z jessethegame: @beach ok, I see where that could be useful, but in this case I like to keep things really lightweight 2015-01-10T06:09:48Z beach: jessethegame: And you would do (push (pop (cards deck)) (cards table)) where cards is an accessor. 2015-01-10T06:10:30Z beach: Whatever. 2015-01-10T06:10:31Z jessethegame: Yes, at the moment I did a recursive (push (pop)) 2015-01-10T06:10:48Z tsumetai joined #lisp 2015-01-10T06:11:08Z jessethegame: but they didn't seem to change in place, I'll give it another look 2015-01-10T06:11:32Z beach: Inside a function, they will only change the local variables. 2015-01-10T06:12:11Z jessethegame: could I make it a recursive macro then? 2015-01-10T06:12:12Z pjb: that's why you need to return the modified lists. 2015-01-10T06:13:38Z jessethegame: I did that for my (transfer), then I thought what about a (transfer!) which calls (transfer) and then setf's or something 2015-01-10T06:14:05Z jessethegame: I'm still trying to wrap my head around the places... 2015-01-10T06:16:33Z PinealGlandOptic quit (Quit: leaving) 2015-01-10T06:16:34Z pacon quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-01-10T06:21:36Z dagnachew quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1) 2015-01-10T06:25:42Z pjb: jessethegame: http://paste.lisp.org/+33ZV 2015-01-10T06:25:49Z fsvehla joined #lisp 2015-01-10T06:26:35Z jessethegame: that looks scary 2015-01-10T06:29:40Z pjb: Yes, mutation is scary. 2015-01-10T06:29:46Z pjb: You have to take a lot of precautions. 2015-01-10T06:30:18Z Zamenhof quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1) 2015-01-10T06:31:04Z pacon joined #lisp 2015-01-10T06:31:47Z pjb: jessethegame: without mutation: http://paste.lisp.org/+33ZV/1 2015-01-10T06:33:04Z pjb: You could even take a single argument, and call it as (odd-even (append a b)) so you could easily sort out more than two lists: (odd-even (append a b c d)) 2015-01-10T06:33:48Z jessethegame: this is a rabbithole 2015-01-10T06:33:54Z jessethegame: this seems to work 2015-01-10T06:33:56Z jessethegame: http://paste.lisp.org/display/145148#1 2015-01-10T06:34:14Z jessethegame: there are probably huge unplugged leaks 2015-01-10T06:34:34Z pjb: Do not return multiple results in a list! Use multiple-values for that! 2015-01-10T06:34:52Z jessethegame: nice 2015-01-10T06:35:35Z pjb: and yes, your transfer! macro is wrong. At least 3 errors. 2015-01-10T06:35:46Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T06:36:54Z zeitue quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-10T06:38:34Z pnpuff joined #lisp 2015-01-10T06:44:13Z hvxgr quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-01-10T06:45:17Z nikki93 joined #lisp 2015-01-10T06:47:18Z samebchase joined #lisp 2015-01-10T06:47:34Z pnpuff left #lisp 2015-01-10T06:48:54Z jessethegame: This is intense. I realise my horrible lisp code will remain on the website for all eternity 2015-01-10T06:49:14Z beach: It happens to all of us. Get over it. 2015-01-10T06:49:46Z beach: Exposing bad code is an integral part of learning how to do it better. 2015-01-10T06:49:50Z jessethegame: pjb: meanwhile I have yet to grasp your first snippet 2015-01-10T06:49:55Z zeitue joined #lisp 2015-01-10T06:50:20Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T06:51:31Z beach: Honestly, though, you are making this more complicated than it is by refusing to wrap your lists in a class instance. Doing so is good practice, because at some point you would want to keep other information around relating to the table. Rather than keeping that information in a set of unrelated variables, you put it in the same class instance. 2015-01-10T06:51:34Z pjb: jessethegame: the trick is that we keep in aa and bb references to a cons cell that contains the cons cell we are processing in its cdr. Notably, when the one of the list is fully processed, we'll have a reference to the last cons cell, which allows us to add new cells. 2015-01-10T06:52:04Z pjb: jessethegame: ca and cb keep references to the first cell of each list for the result. 2015-01-10T06:52:34Z pjb: If you want to use mutation, objects are indeed quite natural. 2015-01-10T06:52:46Z pjb: But as you can see, a solution without mutation is much simplier. 2015-01-10T06:54:35Z jessethegame: hmm ok, it will take some time for me to appreciate those things, but I'll take your word for it now 2015-01-10T06:55:25Z jessethegame: the snippet makes sense now 2015-01-10T06:56:32Z jessethegame: btw, is paste.lisp examplary for the lisp spirit? As in, punish rookies hard for submitting bad code and drive them away in the first place with a site that looks like it was made when lisp was invented? 2015-01-10T06:57:27Z zRecursive: Is there #+win32 pragma ? 2015-01-10T06:58:10Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-01-10T06:58:41Z zRecursive: hm, it is #+WINDOWS, ok. 2015-01-10T06:59:08Z beach: zRecursive: Those are not standardized. 2015-01-10T06:59:43Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-01-10T07:01:09Z zRecursive: beach: From *features*, i found WINDOWS . 2015-01-10T07:01:37Z beach: zRecursive: I am telling you, it depends on the implementation, and whatever someone bothered to put there. 2015-01-10T07:02:00Z zRecursive: i see 2015-01-10T07:02:11Z pjb: jessethegame: here is a correct transfer! http://paste.lisp.org/+33ZW/2 2015-01-10T07:02:21Z pjb: jessethegame: notice how complex it has to be. 2015-01-10T07:03:08Z pjb: jessethegame: paste.lisp.org has the big advantage over most all of the others, is that you can use it easily from emacs with w3m. 2015-01-10T07:03:10Z heurist joined #lisp 2015-01-10T07:04:05Z beach: jessethegame: I think you last remark was totally uncalled for, especially after pjb and Zhivago went out of their way to help you understand the issues. 2015-01-10T07:04:32Z jessethegame: hold up 2015-01-10T07:04:39Z keen__________27 joined #lisp 2015-01-10T07:04:40Z jessethegame: didn't mean to be rude! 2015-01-10T07:04:40Z pjb: beach: I guess the complain is about the lack of javascript in paste.lisp.org. 2015-01-10T07:04:42Z pjb: and css. 2015-01-10T07:04:57Z beach: jessethegame: Could have fooled me. 2015-01-10T07:05:05Z ahungry: I'm a big fan of sprunge, echo /some/file | curl -F 'sprunge=<-' sprunge.us 2015-01-10T07:05:14Z jessethegame: I am very impressed by the warm welcome 2015-01-10T07:05:20Z ahungry: so easy to write a tiny elisp function to do it within emacs with a single key combo 2015-01-10T07:05:23Z keen__________26 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-01-10T07:05:33Z ahungry: or the oh-my-zsh alias and do, sprunge /some/file 2015-01-10T07:06:20Z pjb: the only drawback of paste.lisp.org is actually that it lost old paste during some migration or server failure, so I can't refer you to 8 or 12 years old pastes anymore. 2015-01-10T07:06:27Z jessethegame: pjb: right.... got it 2015-01-10T07:08:23Z k-dawg joined #lisp 2015-01-10T07:08:43Z cmbntr quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) 2015-01-10T07:08:49Z ahungry: even has syntax now, http://sprunge.us/RYEM?common-lisp although not as good as paste.lisp's 2015-01-10T07:08:51Z jessethegame: pjb: Just to get an idea, does a snippet like that just pop into your head and is it just mundane boilerplate or does it get this hairy because it is an unlispy thing to do? 2015-01-10T07:09:13Z cmbntr_ joined #lisp 2015-01-10T07:11:04Z pjb: jessethegame: get-setf-expansion is actually the third stage of sophistication when dealing with places. You have (defun (setf f) (new-value …) …) which is the simpliest (but since you have several new values here, you can't use it. Then there's defsetf (a simple form and a complex form). I've not thought if the complex form could be used with multiple value it's possible it would have worked. And finally get-setf-expansion. 2015-01-10T07:11:48Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-01-10T07:12:12Z mrkkrp joined #lisp 2015-01-10T07:12:34Z beach: jessethegame: pjb wrote it so that it would be very safe. It is hard to make macros safe like that which is why it is hairy. This is why you only want to use macros when functions won't do. 2015-01-10T07:13:08Z khisanth_ joined #lisp 2015-01-10T07:14:04Z zRecursive: How to make (ccl:run-program "/bin/sh" (list "-c" cmd) :input nil :output *standard-output*) work on Windows ? 2015-01-10T07:14:36Z hvxgr joined #lisp 2015-01-10T07:15:52Z Khisanth quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-01-10T07:16:10Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-01-10T07:16:51Z |3b| suspects first step would be to either adjust path to /bin/sh or stop using it in the first place 2015-01-10T07:17:04Z pjb: zRecursive: install cygwin. 2015-01-10T07:17:17Z pegu` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T07:17:56Z |3b| was assuming msys or msys2, maybe cygwin would put it in c:\bin\sh 2015-01-10T07:19:12Z zRecursive: thanks! 2015-01-10T07:19:28Z |3b|: might also need .exe, don't know how picky ccl is about exact filename existing 2015-01-10T07:22:34Z vaporatorius joined #lisp 2015-01-10T07:23:04Z pjb: the question with cygwin, is whether the implementation is compiled inside cygwin (then unix paths are ok), or as a normal windows program in which case c:\cygiwn\bin\sh.exe could be used. 2015-01-10T07:23:42Z |3b|: do any implementations besides clisp compile as cygwin programs? 2015-01-10T07:24:23Z nikki93 joined #lisp 2015-01-10T07:24:25Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T07:24:29Z beach: jessethegame: http://paste.lisp.org/+33ZW/3 2015-01-10T07:24:34Z pjb: One would have to try to compile them. Some porting will probably be required. 2015-01-10T07:25:30Z zRecursive installing Cygwin now ... 2015-01-10T07:25:54Z |3b|: are you specifically trying to run sh builtins or something? 2015-01-10T07:26:01Z |3b|: or shell scripts? 2015-01-10T07:26:03Z moei joined #lisp 2015-01-10T07:26:11Z fragamus joined #lisp 2015-01-10T07:26:24Z k-dawg quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2015-01-10T07:26:28Z zRecursive: Mvong some unix app(s) into windows 2015-01-10T07:26:42Z ndrei joined #lisp 2015-01-10T07:27:02Z |3b| would make sure /bin/sh is actually required before installing cygwin or msys just for sh 2015-01-10T07:27:04Z pjb: perhaps you may reimplement the external script in lisp? 2015-01-10T07:27:04Z pjb: That would be the easiest to do. 2015-01-10T07:28:38Z jessethegame: beach: it all makes sense now 2015-01-10T07:28:49Z beach: jessethegame: Good! 2015-01-10T07:28:52Z zRecursive: Let them run firstly 2015-01-10T07:29:49Z vaporatorius quit (Quit: Saliendo) 2015-01-10T07:30:23Z zRecursive: ls c:/ 2015-01-10T07:30:33Z zRecursive: sorry 2015-01-10T07:34:06Z genii quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-01-10T07:38:05Z jessethegame: beach pjb: thanks a lot, you have opened my eyes a little further 2015-01-10T07:39:12Z slyrus joined #lisp 2015-01-10T07:39:27Z Shinmera joined #lisp 2015-01-10T07:45:31Z pacon quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-01-10T07:45:59Z pacon joined #lisp 2015-01-10T07:46:56Z eivarv quit 2015-01-10T07:48:10Z aiws joined #lisp 2015-01-10T07:50:49Z zeitue quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-01-10T07:54:49Z beach: jessethegame: Anytime! 2015-01-10T07:55:53Z jessethegame quit (Quit: Page closed) 2015-01-10T07:56:57Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2015-01-10T07:57:10Z aiws left #lisp 2015-01-10T07:59:55Z angavrilov joined #lisp 2015-01-10T08:01:28Z Shinmera: zRecursive: UIOP has functions to test on which platform you are. 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ZZZzzz…) 2015-01-10T08:55:50Z nikki93 joined #lisp 2015-01-10T08:56:53Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T09:00:05Z nikki93 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-01-10T09:00:31Z stassats joined #lisp 2015-01-10T09:07:05Z karswell quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T09:10:38Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight) 2015-01-10T09:13:26Z munksgaard joined #lisp 2015-01-10T09:24:14Z zacharias_ quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1) 2015-01-10T09:24:42Z zRecursive: Shinmera: sorry! just come back, thanks for your info. 2015-01-10T09:24:56Z zRecursive: bye 2015-01-10T09:25:04Z zRecursive quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T09:30:01Z zeitue quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-01-10T09:42:58Z zeitue joined #lisp 2015-01-10T09:44:27Z fantazo joined #lisp 2015-01-10T09:45:02Z agumonkey quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-01-10T09:49:27Z pnpuff quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-01-10T09:50:50Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2015-01-10T09:52:00Z nikki93_ joined #lisp 2015-01-10T09:52:30Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-01-10T09:56:42Z nikki93_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-01-10T10:00:06Z Ethan- joined #lisp 2015-01-10T10:04:40Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-01-10T10:06:09Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-01-10T10:06:13Z hardenedapple joined #lisp 2015-01-10T10:07:23Z heurist joined #lisp 2015-01-10T10:07:39Z keen__________28 joined #lisp 2015-01-10T10:08:48Z keen__________27 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-01-10T10:12:33Z vsync- quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-01-10T10:14:36Z vsync_ joined #lisp 2015-01-10T10:20:13Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-01-10T10:24:48Z baotiao joined #lisp 2015-01-10T10:26:05Z rtra quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-01-10T10:29:51Z kcj quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T10:35:39Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-01-10T10:36:39Z rtra joined #lisp 2015-01-10T10:37:12Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-01-10T10:41:54Z ndrei quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2015-01-10T10:44:15Z psy_ joined #lisp 2015-01-10T10:47:21Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2015-01-10T10:52:09Z ndrei joined #lisp 2015-01-10T10:53:34Z madrik joined #lisp 2015-01-10T10:56:18Z ehu joined #lisp 2015-01-10T11:01:22Z madrik quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-01-10T11:03:17Z Mon_Ouie quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1) 2015-01-10T11:04:49Z burper joined #lisp 2015-01-10T11:04:50Z burper left #lisp 2015-01-10T11:05:05Z psy_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-01-10T11:05:17Z Mon_Ouie joined #lisp 2015-01-10T11:16:54Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp 2015-01-10T11:16:55Z pacon quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-01-10T11:18:37Z fragamus quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 2015-01-10T11:19:05Z baotiao quit (Quit: baotiao) 2015-01-10T11:21:49Z psy_ joined #lisp 2015-01-10T11:22:44Z madrik joined #lisp 2015-01-10T11:22:55Z madrik quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2015-01-10T11:24:55Z madrik joined #lisp 2015-01-10T11:25:06Z madrik quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2015-01-10T11:26:38Z madrik joined #lisp 2015-01-10T11:26:52Z madrik quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2015-01-10T11:27:43Z madrik joined #lisp 2015-01-10T11:27:55Z madrik quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2015-01-10T11:28:07Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2015-01-10T11:29:59Z madrik joined #lisp 2015-01-10T11:30:12Z madrik quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2015-01-10T11:30:45Z madrik joined #lisp 2015-01-10T11:32:06Z zacharias joined #lisp 2015-01-10T11:33:33Z arenz joined #lisp 2015-01-10T11:34:53Z farhaven joined #lisp 2015-01-10T11:38:14Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2015-01-10T11:39:08Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T11:46:07Z edgar-rft joined #lisp 2015-01-10T11:49:21Z Ragnaroek quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-01-10T11:58:23Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp 2015-01-10T12:02:06Z zadock quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-01-10T12:16:02Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2015-01-10T12:16:05Z PuercoPop: Shinmera: I've found that if I feed to clss:select a malformed selector contains a #\< sbcl crashes due to heap exhaustion. [e.j. (clss:select " being a CSS selector special char thing. 2015-01-10T12:37:04Z Shinmera: PuercoPop: Thanks for the report, I'll check it out later. If Xach does a dist release later today it might still be fixed in the next release. 2015-01-10T12:38:49Z eli quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-01-10T12:39:30Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-01-10T12:44:56Z gingerale quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-01-10T13:01:41Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-01-10T13:02:12Z tomaw quit (Quit: Quitting) 2015-01-10T13:05:47Z tomaw joined #lisp 2015-01-10T13:06:25Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-01-10T13:07:41Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2015-01-10T13:08:36Z Vutral joined #lisp 2015-01-10T13:11:27Z agumonkey joined #lisp 2015-01-10T13:12:35Z faheem_ joined #lisp 2015-01-10T13:16:15Z Vutral quit (Excess Flood) 2015-01-10T13:17:56Z theos quit (Disconnected by services) 2015-01-10T13:18:25Z theos joined #lisp 2015-01-10T13:24:15Z alpha-: why are symbol names written in all caps most of the time? 2015-01-10T13:24:23Z alpha-: it looks like angry yelling 2015-01-10T13:24:43Z stassats: because old computers only had one kind of letters 2015-01-10T13:24:46Z Vutral joined #lisp 2015-01-10T13:25:30Z Shinmera: You can set *print-case* to :downcase if it bothers you. 2015-01-10T13:25:47Z stassats: and which will break thing 2015-01-10T13:25:52Z stassats: s 2015-01-10T13:25:57Z Shinmera: Probably, yes. 2015-01-10T13:26:34Z wasamasa: do you have examples of stuff relying on it? 2015-01-10T13:27:11Z Shinmera: (format NIL "~s" 'foo) and similar come to mind. 2015-01-10T13:27:33Z Shinmera: (or rather, using the return of that for other things) 2015-01-10T13:27:37Z towodo joined #lisp 2015-01-10T13:28:00Z antoszka: It rarely breaks things, but you might be getting strange errors that won't at first be obviously related to having set *print-case* to :downcase. 2015-01-10T13:28:17Z stassats: (intern (format nil "~a-~a" 'foo 'suffix)) will get broken 2015-01-10T13:28:56Z sunwukong joined #lisp 2015-01-10T13:29:23Z fantazo quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2015-01-10T13:29:49Z przl joined #lisp 2015-01-10T13:30:01Z antoszka: Yeah, but more often than not I'll see (intern (upcase (…))) 2015-01-10T13:30:17Z stassats: which breaks on modern mode 2015-01-10T13:31:29Z stassats: now you have to write (intern (format nil "~a-~a" (symbol-name 'foo) (symbol-name 'suffix))) because some nincompoop decided to mess with *print-case* 2015-01-10T13:31:50Z stassats: verdict: don't design programming languages to be backwards compatible 2015-01-10T13:34:26Z robot-beethoven quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2015-01-10T13:41:00Z enitiz joined #lisp 2015-01-10T13:41:34Z kapil__ quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2015-01-10T13:42:39Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-01-10T13:43:34Z Shinmera: PuercoPop: I have to introduce some extra syntax to LASS in order to let you select CDATA elements and similar. 2015-01-10T13:43:45Z Shinmera: PuercoPop: I'll let you know when I've got it worked out. 2015-01-10T13:46:26Z theos quit (Disconnected by services) 2015-01-10T13:46:55Z theos joined #lisp 2015-01-10T13:52:31Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2015-01-10T14:04:37Z nuk3 joined #lisp 2015-01-10T14:06:07Z burper joined #lisp 2015-01-10T14:06:08Z burper left #lisp 2015-01-10T14:08:38Z sunwukong quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T14:16:23Z aleamb quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-01-10T14:16:34Z pnpuff_ joined #lisp 2015-01-10T14:19:28Z BitPuffin joined #lisp 2015-01-10T14:19:53Z pnpuff_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-01-10T14:21:07Z nuk3 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-10T14:23:00Z tenawa joined #lisp 2015-01-10T14:24:34Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-01-10T14:25:48Z capcar joined #lisp 2015-01-10T14:28:01Z urandom__ joined #lisp 2015-01-10T14:30:50Z pacon joined #lisp 2015-01-10T14:30:59Z tenawa quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2015-01-10T14:33:05Z mishoo joined #lisp 2015-01-10T14:33:29Z pnpuff joined #lisp 2015-01-10T14:36:39Z wglb quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T14:42:55Z malbertife joined #lisp 2015-01-10T14:46:53Z LiamH joined #lisp 2015-01-10T14:48:34Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-10T14:50:49Z towodo quit (Quit: towodo) 2015-01-10T14:51:15Z hitecnologys: Is GET-INTERNAL-REAL-TIME suitable for precise synchronious timers? 2015-01-10T14:51:56Z hitecnologys: (In conjunction with INTERNAL-TIME-UNITS-PER-SECOND, of course) 2015-01-10T14:59:06Z oleo__ quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2015-01-10T14:59:57Z oleo joined #lisp 2015-01-10T15:01:51Z arenz quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-01-10T15:03:30Z baotiao joined #lisp 2015-01-10T15:06:29Z freehck joined #lisp 2015-01-10T15:07:11Z freehck: Hello. I wonder whether it's possible to define generic analog for setf function? 2015-01-10T15:07:23Z przl joined #lisp 2015-01-10T15:07:34Z freehck: All examples I found was for defun. And I have not find any for defmethod. 2015-01-10T15:07:40Z stassats: it's the same 2015-01-10T15:07:44Z Shinmera: Works just the same 2015-01-10T15:07:54Z freehck: Truely? Thanks. 2015-01-10T15:08:01Z Shinmera: Coulda tried it first. 2015-01-10T15:08:03Z stassats: you could just, y'know, read the clhs 2015-01-10T15:08:05Z stassats: clhs defmethod 2015-01-10T15:08:06Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defmet.htm 2015-01-10T15:08:14Z stassats: fifth line 2015-01-10T15:08:57Z freehck: Well, I don't really understand how this setf-magic works. 2015-01-10T15:09:39Z freehck: It seems that functions in CL could be either a symbol, either a list of 2 symbols where first one is setf... 2015-01-10T15:10:01Z stassats: the may also lack a name 2015-01-10T15:10:26Z freehck: yep, lambda are functions too 2015-01-10T15:10:50Z Grue``: function _names_ can be either of those, the functions themselves are a different kind of object 2015-01-10T15:11:32Z Grue`` is now known as Grue` 2015-01-10T15:12:49Z Shinmera: clhs glossary/function name 2015-01-10T15:12:50Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_f.htm#function_name 2015-01-10T15:12:55Z Shinmera: and on the same page: function designator 2015-01-10T15:12:58Z malbertife_ joined #lisp 2015-01-10T15:13:44Z stassats: that should be extended function designator 2015-01-10T15:14:06Z Denommus` quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-01-10T15:14:23Z drdanmaku joined #lisp 2015-01-10T15:16:21Z pacon quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-01-10T15:16:44Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-01-10T15:18:16Z Ragnaroek joined #lisp 2015-01-10T15:18:26Z ejbs joined #lisp 2015-01-10T15:19:08Z zadock joined #lisp 2015-01-10T15:20:06Z towodo joined #lisp 2015-01-10T15:22:19Z minion quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T15:22:20Z specbot quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T15:22:22Z easye quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-01-10T15:25:07Z minion joined #lisp 2015-01-10T15:25:07Z specbot joined #lisp 2015-01-10T15:28:34Z Shinmera: PuercoPop: Ok, fix and change is in. 2015-01-10T15:32:48Z arpunk quit 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and then complain when you set *print-case* to :downcase because it should break non-conforming code? 2015-01-10T17:27:43Z dim: discovering http://cl21.org/, any opinions here I might want to hear? ;-) 2015-01-10T17:27:55Z stassats: dim: nothing civil 2015-01-10T17:28:04Z PuercoPop: Shinmera: Thanks for the quickfix, I'll try it out. 2015-01-10T17:28:05Z pjb: dim: n+1 ? 2015-01-10T17:28:15Z dim: that's the level of information I expected stassats, thanks 2015-01-10T17:28:27Z dim: pjb: ? 2015-01-10T17:28:29Z stassats: dim: just another "i can make lisp better" toy project 2015-01-10T17:28:35Z pjb: dim: and what's more, we're in a situation where n=1 !!! CL having all but displaced all the other lisps… 2015-01-10T17:29:05Z Shinmera: PuercoPop: Have a look at the docs page on how to do it https://shinmera.github.io/CLSS 2015-01-10T17:29:16Z ZabaQ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T17:29:17Z Shinmera: PuercoPop: You'll also need a later Plump version, I fixed some things about CDATA parsing. 2015-01-10T17:29:49Z PuercoPop: yeah I saw the ^ 2015-01-10T17:29:52Z pjb: dim: http://xkcd.com/927/ 2015-01-10T17:29:54Z PuercoPop: was checking out the diffs 2015-01-10T17:30:08Z PuercoPop: btw Thanks for clss, it is so much easier than cxml 2015-01-10T17:30:11Z hitecnologys: dim: I see abuse of reader macros. 2015-01-10T17:30:22Z dim: pjb: that's the whole story being Ada, yes 2015-01-10T17:30:31Z Shinmera: PuercoPop: I'm really glad to hear someone else is making use of my things! :) 2015-01-10T17:30:50Z pjb: dim: think about how the world would be a much better place if Ada was used instead of C++. 2015-01-10T17:31:39Z dim: pjb: please don't make me cry 2015-01-10T17:31:46Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2015-01-10T17:31:53Z dim: I really did enjoy learning Ada 2015-01-10T17:32:01Z pjb: No, the real story behind Ada, it's that it's a French language, and if the DOD in a blind test couldn't negate that it was the best of all, when it was know that it was French the other American couldn't resolve themselves to use it. 2015-01-10T17:32:03Z dim: and I've been quite successful at avoiding C++ up to now 2015-01-10T17:32:18Z stassats: ariane 5 would be so much better 2015-01-10T17:32:51Z khisanth_ is now known as Khisanth 2015-01-10T17:33:12Z pjb: If they had keep the Green codename and never revealed it was a French creation, they'd be using Green now… 2015-01-10T17:33:32Z Joreji joined #lisp 2015-01-10T17:33:52Z pjb: stassats: the Ariane 5 bug would have been avoided by the next level of goodness: if they had use Lisp! 2015-01-10T17:34:07Z pjb: that is, symbolic computation, instead of bit fields. 2015-01-10T17:34:25Z stassats: because it wouldn't lift off because the computer needed to run it would be too heavy? 2015-01-10T17:34:53Z pjb: You mean, you'd need 2 gr of chips instead of 0.5 gr ? 2015-01-10T17:37:52Z ejbs`` joined #lisp 2015-01-10T17:39:22Z ejbs` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-01-10T17:40:12Z arpunk joined #lisp 2015-01-10T17:40:38Z fragamus quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 2015-01-10T17:43:38Z eivarv quit 2015-01-10T17:47:06Z mingvs quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-01-10T17:47:52Z arenz quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-01-10T17:51:45Z towodo quit (Quit: towodo) 2015-01-10T17:54:38Z CrazyEddy quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-01-10T17:55:01Z mingvs joined #lisp 2015-01-10T17:56:27Z scymtym_ joined #lisp 2015-01-10T17:57:17Z BitPuffin joined #lisp 2015-01-10T18:00:09Z gmcastil joined #lisp 2015-01-10T18:00:31Z gmcastil left #lisp 2015-01-10T18:01:52Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-01-10T18:05:39Z lifenoodles quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-10T18:06:59Z lifenoodles joined #lisp 2015-01-10T18:07:49Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-01-10T18:10:03Z ejbs joined #lisp 2015-01-10T18:10:13Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-01-10T18:11:47Z lifenoodles quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-01-10T18:13:30Z lifenoodles joined #lisp 2015-01-10T18:14:44Z innertra1 joined #lisp 2015-01-10T18:14:47Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-01-10T18:15:05Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-01-10T18:16:16Z towodo joined #lisp 2015-01-10T18:16:48Z oleo joined #lisp 2015-01-10T18:19:02Z innertra1 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-10T18:20:08Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-01-10T18:21:13Z eivarv joined #lisp 2015-01-10T18:23:39Z xyh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T18:25:13Z DeadTrickster quit (Read error: No route to host) 2015-01-10T18:25:33Z lifenoodles quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-01-10T18:25:47Z beach left #lisp 2015-01-10T18:28:01Z lifenoodles joined #lisp 2015-01-10T18:28:59Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2015-01-10T18:32:19Z isoraqathedh joined #lisp 2015-01-10T18:38:49Z psy__ joined #lisp 2015-01-10T18:39:04Z psy__ quit (Client Quit) 2015-01-10T18:39:28Z psy_ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-01-10T18:39:49Z nikki93_ joined #lisp 2015-01-10T18:41:22Z malbertife joined #lisp 2015-01-10T18:41:49Z hekmek joined #lisp 2015-01-10T18:42:07Z yenda: the bug would have also been avoiding by notbeing cheap an rewrite ariane 4 software 2015-01-10T18:42:34Z yenda: s/avoiding/avoided /an/and 2015-01-10T18:42:46Z oleo: fuck you sack..... 2015-01-10T18:42:48Z oleo: lol 2015-01-10T18:43:09Z Hexstream: I'd call CL21 a glorified utilities library. (If it makes some people happy, why not, I guess.) 2015-01-10T18:43:32Z oleo: i can't even load clx via quicklisp.... 2015-01-10T18:43:40Z oleo: system port not found, error 2015-01-10T18:44:08Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T18:44:10Z psy_ joined #lisp 2015-01-10T18:44:24Z schaueho quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-01-10T18:44:28Z oleo: newest sbcl-1.2.7 even.... 2015-01-10T18:45:43Z Hexstream: oleo: (ql:quickload "clx") works for me on SBCL 1.2.7. 2015-01-10T18:45:52Z oleo: it does not here.... 2015-01-10T18:45:58Z oleo: and i'm perplexed why not... 2015-01-10T18:46:15Z Hexstream: oleo: You could start by pasting a full stacktrace. 2015-01-10T18:46:36Z oleo: sbcl --no-sysinit --no-userinit....then (load "quicklisp.lisp") then setup via (quicklisp-quickstart:install) after install i just invoke (ql:quickload "clx") and there it is.... 2015-01-10T18:46:50Z Hexstream: That is not a stacktrace. 2015-01-10T18:46:55Z Xach: oleo: what do you get from (ql:where-is-system "clx")? 2015-01-10T18:47:50Z dagnachew joined #lisp 2015-01-10T18:48:06Z oleo: oh i see now 2015-01-10T18:48:14Z oleo: it's referring to another clx, heck.... 2015-01-10T18:48:22Z schaueho joined #lisp 2015-01-10T18:48:22Z oleo: why did i not see that ....bah 2015-01-10T18:48:29Z oleo: thank you 2015-01-10T18:49:21Z Xach: no problem 2015-01-10T18:50:05Z oleo: :) 2015-01-10T18:50:57Z ejbs left #lisp 2015-01-10T18:51:02Z ejbs`` quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2015-01-10T18:52:03Z ejbs joined #lisp 2015-01-10T18:53:54Z hekmek quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2015-01-10T18:55:36Z zygentoma joined #lisp 2015-01-10T18:57:34Z defaultxr joined #lisp 2015-01-10T18:57:45Z nikki93_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T18:59:03Z fragamus joined #lisp 2015-01-10T18:59:43Z Jubb quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-01-10T19:00:32Z nikki93__ joined #lisp 2015-01-10T19:00:49Z Ukari quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2015-01-10T19:00:50Z pt1 joined #lisp 2015-01-10T19:01:26Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-01-10T19:01:57Z baotiao quit (Quit: baotiao) 2015-01-10T19:03:24Z bb010g joined #lisp 2015-01-10T19:04:11Z eivarv quit 2015-01-10T19:04:50Z aleamb joined #lisp 2015-01-10T19:06:10Z baotiao joined #lisp 2015-01-10T19:07:33Z lispm joined #lisp 2015-01-10T19:07:53Z joshmcmillan joined #lisp 2015-01-10T19:09:14Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2015-01-10T19:10:45Z pnpuff joined #lisp 2015-01-10T19:11:58Z drdanmaku quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2015-01-10T19:12:07Z pnpuff quit (Client Quit) 2015-01-10T19:12:08Z moei quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-01-10T19:12:17Z dkcl joined #lisp 2015-01-10T19:12:51Z przl joined #lisp 2015-01-10T19:13:15Z moei joined #lisp 2015-01-10T19:13:34Z kushal quit (Excess Flood) 2015-01-10T19:14:06Z oudeis quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2015-01-10T19:14:08Z nikki93__ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T19:14:45Z vdamewood quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]) 2015-01-10T19:14:58Z kushal joined #lisp 2015-01-10T19:18:09Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-01-10T19:18:31Z mingvs quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-01-10T19:19:57Z Joreji joined #lisp 2015-01-10T19:20:34Z mingvs joined #lisp 2015-01-10T19:20:49Z lifenoodles quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-01-10T19:22:37Z zeitue quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-01-10T19:23:06Z lifenoodles joined #lisp 2015-01-10T19:24:21Z fragamus quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 2015-01-10T19:28:00Z BitPuffin joined #lisp 2015-01-10T19:28:11Z mrkkrp quit (Quit: leaving) 2015-01-10T19:28:39Z towodo quit (Quit: towodo) 2015-01-10T19:29:29Z towodo joined #lisp 2015-01-10T19:30:17Z enitiz quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-10T19:30:36Z mrkkrp joined #lisp 2015-01-10T19:32:49Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-01-10T19:34:09Z mrkkrp quit (Client Quit) 2015-01-10T19:35:19Z rx_ joined #lisp 2015-01-10T19:36:34Z zeitue joined #lisp 2015-01-10T19:36:50Z drdanmaku joined #lisp 2015-01-10T19:38:04Z rainbyte joined #lisp 2015-01-10T19:39:32Z farhaven quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-01-10T19:42:19Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T19:44:45Z oleo: now can't load iterate....... 2015-01-10T19:45:02Z oleo: with-temporary temp called with invalid args 1 2015-01-10T19:45:10Z oleo: lol 2015-01-10T19:45:12Z oleo: oh m an 2015-01-10T19:45:31Z stassats: you can't even? 2015-01-10T19:46:22Z oleo: sb-c:xep or some such is interfering..... 2015-01-10T19:46:38Z oleo: somethin is wrong.... 2015-01-10T19:47:48Z oleo: even when i delete whole of iterate dir in quicklisp and reload it.... 2015-01-10T19:48:12Z oleo: and i don't have another iterate nowhere.... 2015-01-10T19:48:42Z vaporatorius joined #lisp 2015-01-10T19:48:52Z baotiao quit (Quit: baotiao) 2015-01-10T19:51:25Z stassats: your iterate is too old 2015-01-10T19:51:53Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-01-10T19:53:05Z nikki93_ joined #lisp 2015-01-10T19:55:33Z przl joined #lisp 2015-01-10T19:55:41Z Hexstream: oleo: If you haven't (ql:update-dist "quicklisp") recently, you might want to try it. 2015-01-10T19:55:51Z pjb: Ah, the joy of having external library dependencies… 2015-01-10T19:56:09Z hardenedapple quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1) 2015-01-10T19:56:19Z pjb: When really, an iterate macro for your program, how many lines that can be? 10, 20? 2015-01-10T19:57:13Z zadock quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-01-10T19:57:38Z Hexstream: pjb: I'd like to see your 10-line iterate macro implementation. 2015-01-10T19:57:49Z eivarv joined #lisp 2015-01-10T19:58:19Z pjb: the point is that it would be a specialized macro for the specific usage in a given program (which assumedly, would be much more restricted than all the general cases that a library has to handle). 2015-01-10T19:59:09Z pjb: Hexstream: also, the point is that once can write programs that are 100 times (or nowdays, million times) smaller, when you just target the bare hardware and write just the code needed, without using libraries. 2015-01-10T19:59:16Z stassats: Hexstream: you know these 21:9 monitors? 2015-01-10T19:59:33Z Hexstream: stassats: No, but why the question? 2015-01-10T19:59:45Z stassats: you figure it out 2015-01-10T19:59:56Z Hexstream: I have like a 14" monitor or something ridiculous like that. And it's a desktop. 2015-01-10T20:00:18Z pjb: The author of WriteNow had some such example running on NeXT hardware, of a program (written in assembler!) that did extraordinary things, and was very small. But of course, it booted directly on the hardware without requiring any library. 2015-01-10T20:00:36Z pjb: 22:10 ? 2015-01-10T20:00:57Z Hexstream: stassats: Oh. 2015-01-10T20:01:20Z eivarv quit (Client Quit) 2015-01-10T20:01:36Z pjb: Of course, since nobody use NeXT hardware anymore, his programs don't run anywhere anymore. :-( 2015-01-10T20:01:39Z ejbs: stassats: I thought it was funny *shrug* 2015-01-10T20:02:19Z eivarv joined #lisp 2015-01-10T20:03:34Z rx_ left #lisp 2015-01-10T20:03:46Z innertracks joined #lisp 2015-01-10T20:04:50Z ska80 joined #lisp 2015-01-10T20:08:57Z oleo: ok 2015-01-10T20:10:19Z oudeis joined #lisp 2015-01-10T20:10:50Z oudeis quit (Client Quit) 2015-01-10T20:11:15Z towodo quit (Quit: towodo) 2015-01-10T20:13:40Z towodo joined #lisp 2015-01-10T20:14:04Z Longlius quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-01-10T20:14:52Z rainbyte left #lisp 2015-01-10T20:19:40Z farhaven joined #lisp 2015-01-10T20:21:43Z eivarv quit 2015-01-10T20:22:52Z slyrus joined #lisp 2015-01-10T20:24:25Z pt1 joined #lisp 2015-01-10T20:25:23Z karswell` joined #lisp 2015-01-10T20:27:56Z theseb joined #lisp 2015-01-10T20:29:37Z eivarv joined #lisp 2015-01-10T20:33:47Z jumblerg joined #lisp 2015-01-10T20:33:47Z jumblerg quit (Client Quit) 2015-01-10T20:36:09Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2015-01-10T20:38:25Z xyh joined #lisp 2015-01-10T20:39:13Z drmeister: I think I solved the weak-key-hash-table problem. I found some code paths where keys were being added but the location dependency wasn't being updated. I think I'm still over engineering things because my logic is quite convoluted. I'm waiting to hear from the MPS folks about it. 2015-01-10T20:39:38Z eivarv quit 2015-01-10T20:41:11Z fragamus joined #lisp 2015-01-10T20:41:22Z ejbs quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2015-01-10T20:47:50Z eivarv joined #lisp 2015-01-10T20:52:13Z xyh quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T20:53:07Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。) 2015-01-10T20:53:09Z Shinmera- joined #lisp 2015-01-10T20:53:13Z fragamus quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 2015-01-10T20:53:24Z Shinmera- is now known as Shinmera 2015-01-10T20:55:42Z Jirachier quit 2015-01-10T20:58:06Z eivarv quit 2015-01-10T20:59:07Z Krystof: julia> macroexpand(@handler_bind (ErrorException, Foo), 3) 2015-01-10T20:59:08Z Krystof: signal (11): Segmentation fault 2015-01-10T20:59:14Z ggole quit 2015-01-10T20:59:27Z Krystof: well, that answers my "how hard can it be to port the condition system to Julia?" question 2015-01-10T21:00:03Z Xach: half of what it says is meaningless 2015-01-10T21:01:15Z stassats: in sbcl, (cons 1 2 3 4 5) showing (CONS 1 2 3 4 5) in the backtrace is now in 2015-01-10T21:01:18Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T21:01:36Z stassats: that was hard, struggling with different platforms, so it only works on x86, x86-64 and ARM 2015-01-10T21:01:41Z pt1 joined #lisp 2015-01-10T21:01:49Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T21:01:54Z zeitue quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-10T21:03:41Z Jirachier joined #lisp 2015-01-10T21:04:11Z Xach: stassats: cool. was there a specific occurrence that led to this improvement? (i'm assuming it wasn't cons) 2015-01-10T21:04:36Z stassats: that was a long time in my TODO list 2015-01-10T21:05:39Z stassats: after i noticed a way to do it when fixing a bug that took the wrong number of arguments trying to append a bazillion # in the old (CONS 1 2 # # #) 2015-01-10T21:06:36Z stassats: adding restarts like "ignore extra arguments" or "supply missing arguments" could be next 2015-01-10T21:06:51Z stassats: or printing 3 4 5 in a different color in slime 2015-01-10T21:11:41Z stassats: now i'm also thinking about # (funcall (lambda (a b) (/ b 0)) 1 2) => ((LAMBDA (A B)) # 2) 2015-01-10T21:11:48Z stassats: that obviously can't come for free 2015-01-10T21:12:00Z Guest38896 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-01-10T21:12:14Z zadock joined #lisp 2015-01-10T21:14:26Z zeitue joined #lisp 2015-01-10T21:16:46Z BitPuffin joined #lisp 2015-01-10T21:19:36Z pt1 joined #lisp 2015-01-10T21:20:59Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T21:21:21Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-01-10T21:22:56Z isoraqathedh_l joined #lisp 2015-01-10T21:22:56Z oleo: http://picpaste.com/pics/error-I3IBY6UI.1420924961.png 2015-01-10T21:23:02Z fantazo quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2015-01-10T21:23:07Z oleo: still .... 2015-01-10T21:23:18Z stassats: your iterate is too old 2015-01-10T21:23:39Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp 2015-01-10T21:23:55Z stassats: and that font rendering is awful 2015-01-10T21:24:02Z oleo: ? 2015-01-10T21:24:06Z oleo: why old ? 2015-01-10T21:24:14Z stassats: because time passes 2015-01-10T21:24:20Z oleo: i updated the dists.... 2015-01-10T21:24:24Z oleo: oh man 2015-01-10T21:25:15Z isoraqathedh quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-01-10T21:25:32Z oleo: ok, how can i only update one dist ? 2015-01-10T21:25:41Z oleo: (ql:update-dist "iterate") ? 2015-01-10T21:25:47Z oleo: does not work 2015-01-10T21:26:06Z Hexstream: (ql:update-dist "quicklisp"), you can't update just a single library, I don't think. 2015-01-10T21:26:06Z tadni quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-01-10T21:26:10Z stassats: probably because it's not a dist 2015-01-10T21:26:20Z kcj joined #lisp 2015-01-10T21:26:39Z Hexstream: Anyway much of the point of quicklisp dists is that specific versions of all the libraries are tested together as a whole to try to ensure that they work well together. 2015-01-10T21:26:51Z oleo: ok 2015-01-10T21:27:20Z oleo: so there's no other way for me to retain my old mcclim than copying it.... 2015-01-10T21:27:55Z Hexstream: oleo: I have 2 layers of questions, the first is why you think you need an old mcclim, and the second is why you think you need mcclim. 2015-01-10T21:28:58Z stassats: Hexstream: because oleo likes ugly fonts 2015-01-10T21:29:04Z stassats: obviously 2015-01-10T21:29:55Z Hexstream: I'm sure setting up an ugly font on a recent mcclim must not be too hard. 2015-01-10T21:30:09Z oleo: Hexstream: i did some local changes in the mcclim lib....if i don't do it this way i have to obviously put the changes i did into my init file....find a way for it rather...that way is better i think i won't ever need to change mcclim again.... 2015-01-10T21:31:44Z oleo: the changes are mostly concerned about the looks of it.... 2015-01-10T21:31:50Z schaueho quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-01-10T21:31:53Z nikki93_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T21:31:55Z oleo: nothing changed in the way the lib works 2015-01-10T21:31:59Z Hexstream: You won't ever need to change mcclim again if you stop using it. :) Frankly you seem to be creating quite a lot of useless work for yourself. Maybe try mcclim when you're a bit more of an unstoppable force of nature? 2015-01-10T21:32:22Z oleo: or just simple copy it over over the new versions, since i don't see much change in mcclim anyway lol 2015-01-10T21:32:23Z stassats: oleo has been using it for years, you won't convince him 2015-01-10T21:32:31Z oleo: ja 2015-01-10T21:32:39Z Hexstream: stassats: Oh? Ah. 2015-01-10T21:32:46Z tadni joined #lisp 2015-01-10T21:33:32Z oleo: so what about now ? i obviously have already the latest dist of quicklisp..... 2015-01-10T21:33:36Z oleo: lol 2015-01-10T21:33:38Z oleo: oh man 2015-01-10T21:33:59Z stassats: oleo also has been saying "lol" and "oh man" for years 2015-01-10T21:34:01Z oleo: but iterate still fails to load 2015-01-10T21:34:44Z Shinmera: The dots won't ever stop in the foreseeable future either. 2015-01-10T21:35:02Z oleo: you all shy of maybe thinking there's a real bug ? 2015-01-10T21:35:03Z stassats: the only thing that changes is the nicknames 2015-01-10T21:35:33Z Hexstream: oleo: I think the easiest strategy is to first upgrade to the latest quicklisp-provided mcclim, disregarding your changes, and then when you have everything set up and working correctly, try to replicate the aesthetic changes you want to keep into your config file... 2015-01-10T21:35:35Z stassats: oleo: no, your iterate is just too damn old 2015-01-10T21:35:42Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-10T21:35:50Z oleo: it's not about mcclim now dammit 2015-01-10T21:36:00Z oleo: aha 2015-01-10T21:36:09Z oleo: so quicklisp does not provide me with the latest one ? 2015-01-10T21:36:24Z Hexstream: (ql:where-is-system "mcclim") 2015-01-10T21:36:56Z oleo: Hexstream: both are in the quicklisp folder 2015-01-10T21:37:02Z oleo: i checked 2015-01-10T21:37:06Z Hexstream: Paste the return value. 2015-01-10T21:37:20Z oleo: quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/mcclim-20141217-git/ 2015-01-10T21:37:28Z oleo: quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/iterate-20140211-darcs/ 2015-01-10T21:37:36Z stassats: that would be too damn old 2015-01-10T21:37:49Z stassats: for iterate 2015-01-10T21:38:10Z oleo: ja but even with a fresh quicklisp i only get that one 2015-01-10T21:38:34Z stassats: no, quicklisp has iterate-20140713-darcs 2015-01-10T21:38:41Z oleo: oh man 2015-01-10T21:38:44Z Ragnaroek_ joined #lisp 2015-01-10T21:38:47Z stassats: lol..... 2015-01-10T21:38:50Z oleo: and why do i get the old one ? 2015-01-10T21:38:54Z mhd quit (Ping timeout: 187 seconds) 2015-01-10T21:39:24Z Hexstream: Maybe you could just nuke your quicklisp directory and reinstall quicklisp. 2015-01-10T21:39:25Z mhd quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-01-10T21:40:20Z Ragnaroek quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-01-10T21:40:22Z Ragnaroek_ is now known as Ragnaroek 2015-01-10T21:40:24Z Hexstream: (Actually not as bothersome to do as it might sound, and it eliminates many potential problems for how you might have screwed things up over time.) 2015-01-10T21:40:29Z stassats: quicklisp doesn't remove old things upon updating 2015-01-10T21:41:04Z slyrus joined #lisp 2015-01-10T21:41:11Z oleo: ok, i think i found it, the old one was still in the quicklisp folder 2015-01-10T21:41:28Z oleo: i don't know why that one would get a priority over the new one tho 2015-01-10T21:41:37Z oleo: as long as it remains there i mean 2015-01-10T21:42:02Z oleo: i rm -rf'ed it and now it loads i think, ja seems so 2015-01-10T21:42:10Z eivarv joined #lisp 2015-01-10T21:42:24Z oleo: i don't have any literal references to the old one in my init files either 2015-01-10T21:43:49Z oleo: cause i even rm -rf'ed .cache/common-lisp/ 2015-01-10T21:44:00Z oleo: i don't get it 2015-01-10T21:45:06Z Hexstream: Did you actually restart your lisp image? 2015-01-10T21:45:38Z oleo: yes 2015-01-10T21:45:50Z oleo: it works 2015-01-10T21:46:19Z oleo: but the old one would try to load regardless of the new one if i restarted or not, when it was present 2015-01-10T21:46:44Z oleo: ok success all loaded 2015-01-10T21:50:14Z Quadrescence joined #lisp 2015-01-10T21:57:37Z towodo quit (Quit: towodo) 2015-01-10T21:59:38Z towodo joined #lisp 2015-01-10T22:03:14Z zadock quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-01-10T22:03:45Z BitPuffin joined #lisp 2015-01-10T22:04:01Z eivarv quit 2015-01-10T22:04:52Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-10T22:08:12Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-10T22:09:49Z Ragnaroek quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2015-01-10T22:11:59Z eivarv joined #lisp 2015-01-10T22:11:59Z ska80 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-01-10T22:15:46Z fragamus joined #lisp 2015-01-10T22:16:29Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2015-01-10T22:20:58Z towodo quit (Quit: towodo) 2015-01-10T22:22:15Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-01-10T22:22:57Z eivarv quit 2015-01-10T22:32:04Z towodo joined #lisp 2015-01-10T22:33:04Z oudeis joined #lisp 2015-01-10T22:35:00Z oudeis quit (Client Quit) 2015-01-10T22:35:09Z fragamus quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 2015-01-10T22:39:32Z oudeis joined #lisp 2015-01-10T22:40:01Z oudeis_ joined #lisp 2015-01-10T22:40:08Z lispm quit (Quit: lispm) 2015-01-10T22:40:31Z przl joined #lisp 2015-01-10T22:40:58Z oudeis quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T22:40:58Z oudeis_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T22:43:39Z keen__________29 joined #lisp 2015-01-10T22:44:55Z keen__________28 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-01-10T22:45:13Z drmeister: stassats: Are you still online? 2015-01-10T22:45:24Z stassats: probably 2015-01-10T22:46:47Z drmeister: I just pushed a new version of Clasp to the preview branch of github.com/drmeister/clasp - you are welcome to try it, or I can get in touch with you again once someone else has confirmed that it builds on their system and I push it to the "master" branch. 2015-01-10T22:47:00Z drmeister: This version of Clasp works with ASDF, SLIME and Quicklisp. 2015-01-10T22:47:35Z drmeister: It does not yet generate performant code - it's about 100x slower than SBCL - that is my next goal - to fix that using Cleavir. 2015-01-10T22:48:16Z stassats: cloning, that'll take some time, probably will compile tomorrow 2015-01-10T22:48:17Z drmeister: But it does have the Clang AST and ASTMatcher code that enables static analysis of C++ code. 2015-01-10T22:48:25Z eivarv joined #lisp 2015-01-10T22:48:47Z drmeister: Ok, I'd love to hear any feedback you have. Cheers! 2015-01-10T22:48:55Z towodo quit (Quit: towodo) 2015-01-10T22:49:10Z stacksmith joined #lisp 2015-01-10T22:50:13Z drmeister: stassats: Hang on - I just realized that changes that I made to support MPS broke the Boehm version - which is the first thing it will try to build. 2015-01-10T22:50:19Z drmeister: Give me a few hours - I'll fix this. 2015-01-10T22:50:28Z stassats: i'm just cloning 2015-01-10T22:50:29Z drmeister: I'll get back to you later. (argh!) 2015-01-10T22:50:35Z drmeister: Ok, no problem. 2015-01-10T22:50:58Z stassats: is clasp-externals buildable? 2015-01-10T22:54:19Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T22:55:27Z stassats: i already had it cloned 2015-01-10T22:56:36Z stassats: how come i get a merge conflict? 2015-01-10T22:56:38Z pt1 joined #lisp 2015-01-10T22:57:19Z Beetny joined #lisp 2015-01-10T22:57:39Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-01-10T22:57:50Z Atarian joined #lisp 2015-01-10T22:58:56Z vaporatorius quit (Quit: Leaving) 2015-01-10T23:00:57Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T23:02:28Z dtm` joined #lisp 2015-01-10T23:03:52Z bgs100 joined #lisp 2015-01-10T23:04:32Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2015-01-10T23:04:34Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 2015-01-10T23:04:34Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2015-01-10T23:08:06Z Atarian quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2015-01-10T23:08:58Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2015-01-10T23:09:34Z Joreji quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2015-01-10T23:10:00Z dtm` quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2015-01-10T23:17:37Z urandom__ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2015-01-10T23:18:20Z BitPuffin joined #lisp 2015-01-10T23:20:59Z towodo joined #lisp 2015-01-10T23:22:53Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2015-01-10T23:28:08Z MutSbeta joined #lisp 2015-01-10T23:43:10Z mrSpec quit (Quit: mrSpec) 2015-01-10T23:46:30Z Jirachier quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2015-01-10T23:47:12Z Jirachier joined #lisp 2015-01-10T23:50:46Z robot-beethoven joined #lisp 2015-01-10T23:53:14Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/) 2015-01-10T23:54:43Z vdamewood joined #lisp 2015-01-10T23:57:11Z hitecnologys quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2015-01-10T23:57:13Z dim: rebase? local editing? 2015-01-10T23:57:18Z towodo quit (Quit: towodo) 2015-01-10T23:58:19Z hitecnologys joined #lisp