2014-12-25T00:05:05Z DrCode quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-25T00:05:40Z theseb: i have this strange fascination with seeing how lispy python is under the hood 2014-12-25T00:05:40Z minion: theseb, memo from pjb: the problem with the languages other than lisp or smalltalk, is that message sending has a different syntax than eg. arithmetic expressions or flow control. In smalltalk everything is object so 3 + 4 is sending the message + with the argument 4 to the object 3, which is similar to yourThing doSomething: otherThing. (+ 3 4) is similar to (do-something your-thing other-thing). This makes integrating the DSL smoothless. 2014-12-25T00:05:40Z minion: theseb, memo from pjb: notice that Europeans don't do long divisions like USians do it. 2014-12-25T00:05:40Z minion: theseb, memo from pjb: also have a look at: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/ee09f8475bc7b2a0 and http://groups.google.com/group/comp.programming/msg/9e7b8aaec1794126 2014-12-25T00:06:50Z DrCode joined #lisp 2014-12-25T00:09:24Z zRecursive joined #lisp 2014-12-25T00:10:41Z wasamasa: theseb: ruby even more 2014-12-25T00:12:12Z johnrx left #lisp 2014-12-25T00:12:58Z logloglogloglog quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-25T00:14:07Z theseb: wasamasa: ruby is more lispy? 2014-12-25T00:14:21Z theseb: wasamasa: i knew ruby was fanatically object-ey 2014-12-25T00:14:31Z theseb: or least i heard that 2014-12-25T00:16:18Z yeticry joined #lisp 2014-12-25T00:17:47Z Quadrescence joined #lisp 2014-12-25T00:18:55Z arnaudga left #lisp 2014-12-25T00:20:10Z Xach: https://github.com/rongarret/ergolib/blob/master/compat.lisp#L60 - oh no, a bug in sbcl 2014-12-25T00:20:26Z Xach: (not really) 2014-12-25T00:20:31Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-12-25T00:20:55Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-25T00:20:56Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-25T00:21:28Z Bicyclidine: another convenience utility library, huh 2014-12-25T00:21:43Z arpunk joined #lisp 2014-12-25T00:22:53Z Xach: no. it fixes common lisp. 2014-12-25T00:23:57Z mband quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-25T00:28:34Z ejbs quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-25T00:29:53Z Quadrescence quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-12-25T00:30:37Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-25T00:31:00Z arpunk quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-25T00:31:04Z mband joined #lisp 2014-12-25T00:31:11Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-12-25T00:34:37Z PuercoPop: nyef: I've found http://common-lisp.net/~abridgewater/git/nq-clim.git/ but I can't seem to guess the url to clone it from. 2014-12-25T00:35:44Z mband quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-12-25T00:37:26Z mband joined #lisp 2014-12-25T00:42:00Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-25T00:42:34Z leo2007 quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.4.2) 2014-12-25T00:43:59Z arpunk joined #lisp 2014-12-25T00:45:01Z yrk quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.0.50.1)) 2014-12-25T00:50:22Z mband quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-25T00:51:09Z mband joined #lisp 2014-12-25T00:53:14Z nyef: PuercoPop: Looks about right, though that was from before I started working on some of the event-handling stuff. 2014-12-25T00:54:46Z nyef: PuercoPop: I think clnet has gone through something like two major updates since I last pushed to that repository. 2014-12-25T00:55:17Z nyef: There at least used to be a gitweb instance, for example. 2014-12-25T00:55:17Z mband quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-25T00:56:06Z PuercoPop: But the issue is that git clone http://... doesn't work nor the variations with projects I can think of. It is not listed on http://common-lisp.net/gitweb/ either so I can't read the source. 2014-12-25T00:57:01Z Hexstream: Completing the move to github would solve the issue. :) 2014-12-25T00:57:26Z nyef: Mmm. And I have it as an ssh:// remote. 2014-12-25T00:58:23Z nyef: Looks like the repository wasn't configured for general HTTP access. 2014-12-25T00:59:11Z kristof joined #lisp 2014-12-25T00:59:38Z nyef: Okay, shall I try to set nq-clim up on github? 2014-12-25T01:00:14Z Hexstream: Preferably not too verbosely. :D 2014-12-25T01:01:58Z mband joined #lisp 2014-12-25T01:02:44Z nyef: Hrm. I somehow managed to kick my web browser into some debugging mode, and it's not liking my ssh key. 2014-12-25T01:03:34Z PuercoPop: in settings you can register/update your ssh 2014-12-25T01:04:06Z urandom_1 quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2014-12-25T01:05:24Z kcj quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-25T01:05:43Z axion: How does the prototype argument of FLOAT work exactly? I'm not really sure what else it's doing as compared to leaving it off. 2014-12-25T01:06:07Z mband quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-25T01:07:13Z Hexstream: axion: There are (at most) 4 types of float. Give a float of the type you want as second argument and the returned value will be of that float type... 2014-12-25T01:07:49Z axion: ah ok so 1.0 would ensure it to be a single? 2014-12-25T01:09:10Z logloglogloglog joined #lisp 2014-12-25T01:09:22Z nyef: PuercoPop: https://github.com/abridgewater/nq-clim 2014-12-25T01:09:27Z Quadrescence joined #lisp 2014-12-25T01:10:06Z Hexstream: axion: Only if *read-default-float-format* is single-float or equivalent. 2014-12-25T01:10:18Z axion: right, ok thanks 2014-12-25T01:11:15Z nyef: 1.0s0 maybe? 2014-12-25T01:11:16Z Bicyclidine: 1.0f0 will be a single, if you want to force that for some reason 2014-12-25T01:11:34Z Bicyclidine: s is short. everybody loves shorts 2014-12-25T01:11:44Z nyef: Except in winter, yes, okay. 2014-12-25T01:11:59Z axion: one thing i'm confused over, looking at 3b's fork of my code is this 2014-12-25T01:12:14Z axion: https://github.com/3b/tradewarz/commit/32d8c7ed60289194b7dab94c4027eae520182c5c#diff-49c892dd41dd8204d7c293543eede5d6R13 2014-12-25T01:12:23Z axion: why is he using 0.0 and 1.0 for the prototype? 2014-12-25T01:12:47Z Bicyclidine: because the array is of single-floats specifically. 2014-12-25T01:13:00Z jumblerg joined #lisp 2014-12-25T01:13:03Z ASau: (That depends on winter. Here the winter is +10 tomorrow, there the winter is -10 tomorrow and -15 the day after tomorrow.) 2014-12-25T01:13:07Z Bicyclidine: hopefully read default float format is set somewhere, or else this code is slightly wrong! oh no! 2014-12-25T01:13:17Z axion: but what is significant between 0.0 and 1.0, when the defaults are 0.0? 2014-12-25T01:13:22Z logloglogloglog quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-25T01:13:33Z Bicyclidine: oh, you mean on line 13? nothing 2014-12-25T01:13:37Z axion: yeah 2014-12-25T01:14:06Z Bicyclidine: (float x 0.0) and (float x 1.0) are the same 2014-12-25T01:14:24Z axion: ok i thought so. not sure why he did that. 2014-12-25T01:14:31Z nyef: Typo? 2014-12-25T01:16:45Z PuercoPop: nyef: thanks 2014-12-25T01:17:01Z yeticry joined #lisp 2014-12-25T01:17:35Z nyef: PuercoPop: Please be aware that this is still massively incomplete, to the point where basically none of the higher-level stuff is implemented. And also please let me know what you think. 2014-12-25T01:19:28Z nyef: Just from looking over it this past day or so, though, I get the distinct impression that once the basic event-handling stuff is figured out then it should rapidly start spawning useful functionality. 2014-12-25T01:22:06Z yeticry quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-25T01:23:45Z michael_lee joined #lisp 2014-12-25T01:29:12Z logloglogloglog joined #lisp 2014-12-25T01:29:13Z yeticry joined #lisp 2014-12-25T01:29:27Z Hexstream: Wow, ok. There was more CLHS figures with 2 symbols than I expected but one of them has one single symbol. o_o 2014-12-25T01:30:28Z Bicyclidine: must be important 2014-12-25T01:30:45Z Hexstream: Yeah, sleep is pretty important! 2014-12-25T01:31:17Z ack006 yawns 2014-12-25T01:33:17Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-25T01:33:34Z tadni` joined #lisp 2014-12-25T01:33:46Z tadni` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-25T01:34:12Z farhaven joined #lisp 2014-12-25T01:38:25Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-25T01:39:36Z ack006 quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-12-25T01:42:36Z michael_lee quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-12-25T01:43:04Z vaporatorius joined #lisp 2014-12-25T01:45:25Z theseb quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-12-25T01:45:27Z hiyosi quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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Any initial thoughts about NQ-CLIM? 2014-12-25T01:58:31Z Guest65983 quit (Quit: Lost terminal) 2014-12-25T02:00:00Z theseb joined #lisp 2014-12-25T02:01:23Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-25T02:03:50Z logloglogloglog joined #lisp 2014-12-25T02:08:41Z LinuxApprentice joined #lisp 2014-12-25T02:09:06Z LinuxApprentice: i've been thinking of tinkering with lisp lately... 2014-12-25T02:09:20Z yeticry joined #lisp 2014-12-25T02:09:36Z dlowe: just do it 2014-12-25T02:10:10Z LinuxApprentice: dlowe: o.0 2014-12-25T02:10:21Z LinuxApprentice: dlowe: experienced lisp programmer ? 2014-12-25T02:11:10Z dlowe: experienced overall programmer. :) A lot of times I'll figure out how to implement a random number higher/lower guessing game in a new language 2014-12-25T02:11:33Z LinuxApprentice: dlowe: how boring.... 2014-12-25T02:11:48Z dlowe: sure, but it's a start. 2014-12-25T02:11:56Z dlowe: You'd be amazed at how hard it is to write in forth 2014-12-25T02:12:09Z LinuxApprentice: dlowe: fortran ? 2014-12-25T02:12:13Z LinuxApprentice: ewwwwww 2014-12-25T02:12:19Z klltkr quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-25T02:12:20Z Bicyclidine: forth and fortran are completely different 2014-12-25T02:12:33Z klltkr joined #lisp 2014-12-25T02:12:45Z LinuxApprentice: oh god 2014-12-25T02:13:07Z LinuxApprentice: Bicyclidine: please elaborate 2014-12-25T02:13:25Z dlowe: let us discuss lisp instead 2014-12-25T02:13:51Z Bicyclidine: They're completely different. They are not the same. You might as well confuse "random" and "rambunctious" 2014-12-25T02:14:10Z yeticry quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-25T02:14:32Z dlowe: like the non-boring lisp project that LinuxApprentice is going to write 2014-12-25T02:15:09Z dlowe: we could use a nice smtp library for sending email. 2014-12-25T02:15:19Z LinuxApprentice: dlowe: ok, i want to parse a binary file 2014-12-25T02:15:30Z nyef: Because CL-SMTP is rather naughty, what with not having a dot-stuffer and all? 2014-12-25T02:15:37Z dlowe: nyef: exactly. 2014-12-25T02:15:46Z Bicyclidine: one of the lisp learning books actually goes over parsing a binary file format (ID3) 2014-12-25T02:15:49Z Bicyclidine: minion: pcl 2014-12-25T02:15:50Z minion: pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 2014-12-25T02:16:09Z pjb: theseb: check http://informatimago.com/articles/usenet.html#Is-Ruby-a-lisp- 2014-12-25T02:16:40Z LinuxApprentice: how functional is lisp without 3rd party libraries compared to python 2014-12-25T02:16:43Z pjb: Ruby is more lispy than python (which is not at all) because ruby has only expressions (while python like C distinguishes statements from expressions). 2014-12-25T02:16:49Z yeticry joined #lisp 2014-12-25T02:17:01Z pjb: LinuxApprentice: have you tried python without libraries? 2014-12-25T02:17:01Z Bicyclidine: lisp has a huge standard library, you can do a lot without more libraries. 2014-12-25T02:17:02Z echo-area joined #lisp 2014-12-25T02:17:37Z LinuxApprentice: pjb: python has a mean standard library anyway 2014-12-25T02:17:44Z dlowe: on the other hand, it's missing some things that seem obviously needed to us in the 21st century 2014-12-25T02:18:16Z LinuxApprentice: dlowe: such as ? 2014-12-25T02:18:18Z dlowe: you learn to suck it up and load the libraries you need with quicklisp. 2014-12-25T02:18:26Z dlowe: Anything dealing with sockets and threads. 2014-12-25T02:18:53Z LinuxApprentice: I see 2014-12-25T02:18:55Z Xach: and xml, and json, and 2014-12-25T02:19:08Z LinuxApprentice: python has... 2014-12-25T02:19:12Z dlowe: yeah, no structured encoding in the std library 2014-12-25T02:19:32Z dlowe: yeah, python has the kitchen sink 2014-12-25T02:21:23Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-25T02:21:51Z Ukari joined #lisp 2014-12-25T02:22:49Z kristof: The sockets library is going to have to get a makeover once kdbus swings around 2014-12-25T02:23:35Z LinuxApprentice quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-25T02:24:12Z dlowe: heh. which one? usocket? 2014-12-25T02:28:38Z Hexstream left #lisp 2014-12-25T02:31:16Z nisstyre is now known as nisscrooge 2014-12-25T02:31:19Z logloglogloglog quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-25T02:31:41Z kaihaosw joined #lisp 2014-12-25T02:33:41Z kaihaosw quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-25T02:35:45Z kaihaosw joined #lisp 2014-12-25T02:36:50Z kaihaosw quit (Client Quit) 2014-12-25T02:39:03Z kapil__ joined #lisp 2014-12-25T02:40:22Z huza joined #lisp 2014-12-25T02:58:30Z JuanDaugherty quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-25T02:58:56Z bb010g joined #lisp 2014-12-25T02:59:04Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: happening destroyed into perpetual bleeding) 2014-12-25T03:01:27Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp 2014-12-25T03:02:53Z s00pcan_ joined #lisp 2014-12-25T03:07:24Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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Just wondering how long until I don't need a local package downloaded 2014-12-25T03:27:20Z Xach: axion: quicklisp updates come out about once per month. however! 2014-12-25T03:27:34Z antonv quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-12-25T03:27:34Z Xach: axion: i grab the latest release tarball of cffi, which is not the same as what's in master. 2014-12-25T03:27:49Z Xach: axion: what i grab varies from project to project. the quicklisp-projects repo has the database i use. 2014-12-25T03:27:52Z logloglogloglog joined #lisp 2014-12-25T03:27:52Z axion: ahhh then it may be longer :) 2014-12-25T03:28:01Z Xach: yes. 2014-12-25T03:28:06Z yeticry joined #lisp 2014-12-25T03:28:09Z axion: 3b just submitted a patch to cffi to make my game faster 2014-12-25T03:28:18Z axion: and it was already merged 2014-12-25T03:29:01Z Xach: nice. maybe you can gently lobby for a release. 2014-12-25T03:29:07Z Xach: it would be a christmas miracle! 2014-12-25T03:29:44Z axion: haha ok thanks 2014-12-25T03:30:47Z Xach: meanwhile sbcl and clx don't work today! 2014-12-25T03:30:52Z Xach: a christmas anti-miracle! 2014-12-25T03:31:02Z axion: ! 2014-12-25T03:31:13Z nyef: The combination, or individually? 2014-12-25T03:31:33Z Xach: nyef: sbcl HEAD with clx together 2014-12-25T03:31:41Z Xach: 1.2.7 pre-release-ish 2014-12-25T03:31:51Z nyef: Lovely. 2014-12-25T03:32:04Z Xach is not a total nerd, is just testing sbcl while the kids' wii u slowly downloads updates 2014-12-25T03:32:04Z nyef: ... that has to be fairly recent. 2014-12-25T03:32:17Z logloglogloglog quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-12-25T03:32:17Z axion: i'm disappointed in sbcl >1.2.2. fails to compile asdf contrib every release since on my system 2014-12-25T03:32:18Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-25T03:33:10Z Xach: I don't think that's an SBCL problem. 2014-12-25T03:33:12Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-25T03:33:33Z axion: i have never had a problem with previous releases compiling. what do you think it could be? 2014-12-25T03:33:37Z nyef: axion: That sounds like there's something odd about your system. 2014-12-25T03:34:00Z nyef: axion: Sounds like git bisect time, or actually looking at what the build log says. 2014-12-25T03:34:19Z axion: i use Arch Linus, and the package maintainers failed to add it to the repositories ever since 1.2.2 because it won't compile asdf. I have tried to dig into it myself but couldn't figure it out 2014-12-25T03:34:23Z axion: Linux* 2014-12-25T03:34:53Z nyef: Xach: Trying to confirm your SBCL HEAD + CLX issue, building SBCL now, planning to use the quicklisp that I installed recently. 2014-12-25T03:35:23Z Xach: nyef: http://report.quicklisp.org/2014-12-24/failure-report/clx.html has a partial log, which i don't understand. 2014-12-25T03:35:35Z Xach: nyef: there are no ERROR or WARNING conditions that I can see, which is a usual suspect 2014-12-25T03:37:33Z Xach: axion: For me, it was missing asdf-flv 2014-12-25T03:37:34Z nyef: Has this part of CLX changed recently? 2014-12-25T03:37:51Z Xach: axion: adding asdf-flv made it build 2014-12-25T03:39:06Z yeticry joined #lisp 2014-12-25T03:41:05Z Xach: nyef: don't know 2014-12-25T03:41:31Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-12-25T03:41:37Z axion: Xach: how do i do that? 2014-12-25T03:43:05Z towodo joined #lisp 2014-12-25T03:43:18Z Vutral joined #lisp 2014-12-25T03:43:38Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-25T03:43:39Z Xach: axion: get asdf-flv, make it known to asdf 2014-12-25T03:43:50Z nyef: Xach: How do I do a verbose load of a system in quicklisp? 2014-12-25T03:44:30Z axion: not quite sure how to mess with asdf, but i'll try 2014-12-25T03:45:07Z nyef: (I don't care how much extra data I get, but the default of "print a dot every so often" isn't going to cut it if something goes worng.) 2014-12-25T03:45:17Z Xach: nyef: :verbose t 2014-12-25T03:45:23Z nyef: Okay, thanks. 2014-12-25T03:45:46Z nyef: SBCL contribs building now, so I should be able to load quicklisp soon and try some version of CLX. 2014-12-25T03:45:49Z Xach: axion: it is a little presumptuous to complain about sbcl being broken when you are not sure how to mess with asdf. it's ok to be unhappy but blaming sbcl is a bit overboard. 2014-12-25T03:46:15Z axion: i did not blame sbcl. i blamed the package maintainers of Arch Linux and myself for not knowing how to dig deeper 2014-12-25T03:46:23Z frkout_ joined #lisp 2014-12-25T03:46:34Z nyef: axion: The bare minimum would be to arrange that we can take a look at output/building-contrib.asdf. 2014-12-25T03:46:49Z axion: sure. I will attempt the compile now 2014-12-25T03:47:31Z nyef: At a guess, though, I'm going to suggest that you have a blown asdf configuration file installed in /etc or something. 2014-12-25T03:47:49Z nyef: Xach: (ql:quickload :clx :verbose t) ? 2014-12-25T03:47:52Z Xach: nyef: yes. 2014-12-25T03:47:57Z nyef: Running now. 2014-12-25T03:48:04Z Xach: I object to " i'm disappointed in sbcl >1.2.2. fails to compile asdf contrib" 2014-12-25T03:48:16Z Xach: nothing to do with sbcl. 2014-12-25T03:48:46Z nyef: Xach: Build failure confirmed with clx-20141106-git. 2014-12-25T03:49:24Z Xach: nyef: ok 2014-12-25T03:49:29Z nyef: Xach: Attempting to bisect SBCL now. 2014-12-25T03:49:39Z frkout quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-25T03:50:28Z Xach: clx is from git://github.com/sharplispers/clx.git 2014-12-25T03:50:36Z vaporatorius quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-25T03:50:42Z nyef: (Step one: Try HEAD~8, which is what I thought I was running in the first place...) 2014-12-25T03:51:12Z nyef: Hrm. But wasn't. 2014-12-25T03:51:19Z axion: nyef: i do not have any asdf configuration files in /etc 2014-12-25T03:51:47Z nyef: Oh well, only costs maybe 15 minutes, then I'll check what my asdf cache tells me is what I was really running. 2014-12-25T03:52:16Z Xach: nyef: fyi, asdf-contrib is some add-on library for asdf. not part of the sbcl asdf contrib. 2014-12-25T03:52:32Z Xach: not sure who came up with such a name 2014-12-25T03:53:09Z scymtym: nyef, Xach: re clx: this may be caused by SBCL's new behavior of signaling a style-warning when an inline declamation for a function follows calls of the function; clx seems to configure ASDF to treat all warnings (including style-warnings) as compilation failures (see perform :around method in clx.asd) 2014-12-25T03:53:10Z nyef: That's... stunning. 2014-12-25T03:53:28Z nyef: scymtym: Yeah, that's about what I was beginning to suspect I'd find. 2014-12-25T03:54:18Z scymtym: nyef: just a hunch, though. i looked at the code but haven't tried to actually compile or load anything. 2014-12-25T03:55:27Z axion: http://codepad.org/UXIbQEWo 2014-12-25T03:55:51Z Xach: oh, right! 2014-12-25T03:55:55Z Xach: i forgot clx did that 2014-12-25T03:56:06Z Xach: this happened for some other change, too 2014-12-25T03:56:33Z axion: nyef: there is the requested build log 2014-12-25T03:56:49Z Xach: scymtym: I'm discussing this on sbcl-devel and I'd like to credit you. Do you go by another name or should I use "scymtym"? 2014-12-25T03:57:30Z nyef: axion: Something doesn't seem right there... 2014-12-25T03:57:36Z nyef: Right at the top it seems odd. 2014-12-25T03:57:56Z axion: ok... 2014-12-25T03:58:43Z scymtym: Xach: thanks. i don't think crediting is necessary, but it's "Jan Moringen" on sbcl-devel, if you want to 2014-12-25T03:59:28Z s00pcan_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-25T04:00:02Z scymtym: axion: is it possible that make tries to parallelize the build (as is make -j N) on your system? 2014-12-25T04:00:04Z Xach: thanks 2014-12-25T04:00:33Z axion: scymtym: yes it does. should I try without? 2014-12-25T04:00:37Z nyef: Yeah, looks like make is trying to build in parallel, which is bogus for this. 2014-12-25T04:00:48Z axion: ok i'll retry 2014-12-25T04:01:00Z nyef: Is that some sort of system default? 2014-12-25T04:01:07Z fantazo joined #lisp 2014-12-25T04:02:19Z axion: it's commented out by default afaik. it's been a decade since i uncommented it to use my number of cpu's as suggested, and never had a build fail due to the fact 2014-12-25T04:04:16Z towodo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-12-25T04:06:35Z axion: that seemed to fix it. thank you. time to have a nice chat with the maintainers 2014-12-25T04:07:00Z nyef: Which maintainers? 2014-12-25T04:07:26Z axion: the distribution package maintainers 2014-12-25T04:07:32Z nyef: Ah, good. 2014-12-25T04:08:48Z nyef: That said, I wonder if an explicit -j 1 in the invocation of $GNUMAKE in make-target-contrib.sh might also clear it up... 2014-12-25T04:09:29Z axion: will try 2014-12-25T04:09:36Z Kabaka joined #lisp 2014-12-25T04:09:50Z zeitue joined #lisp 2014-12-25T04:11:58Z nyef: ... And it might be straightforward to fix up contrib/asdf/Makefile to do something sane as well... 2014-12-25T04:15:41Z axion: we'll see how they want to do it. they like to stay vanilla for the most part. probably best to temporarily disable their env var for parallel building 2014-12-25T04:16:57Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-25T04:17:09Z nyef: Xach: Got a bisection range, five steps to go. 2014-12-25T04:17:22Z fantazo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-25T04:17:49Z fantazo joined #lisp 2014-12-25T04:19:40Z genii joined #lisp 2014-12-25T04:20:34Z zeitue quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-12-25T04:21:59Z genii is now known as ChristmasPresent 2014-12-25T04:22:55Z yeticry joined #lisp 2014-12-25T04:26:29Z scymtym quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-25T04:26:50Z yeticry quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-25T04:27:26Z huza quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.3.8) 2014-12-25T04:28:58Z logloglogloglog joined #lisp 2014-12-25T04:31:07Z s00pcan_ joined #lisp 2014-12-25T04:31:19Z nyef: ... at about fifteen minutes per step. 2014-12-25T04:31:47Z nyef: Bisection may tell us what we already know by around 12:30. 2014-12-25T04:32:06Z beach joined #lisp 2014-12-25T04:32:16Z beach: Good morning everyone! 2014-12-25T04:33:57Z logloglogloglog quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-12-25T04:34:24Z wglb quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-25T04:34:49Z ChristmasPresent is now known as genii 2014-12-25T04:35:42Z nyef: Hello beach. 2014-12-25T04:36:15Z nyef: beach: I've been convinced to give github somewhat of a try, and pushed https://github.com/abridgewater/nq-clim 2014-12-25T04:36:31Z nyef: I looked at CLXS, but it turned out to be in darcs. 2014-12-25T04:37:03Z beach: Great! 2014-12-25T04:37:07Z genii quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-25T04:37:34Z beach: What's the license? 2014-12-25T04:37:43Z nyef: Unspecified as of yet? 2014-12-25T04:37:47Z BitPuffin joined #lisp 2014-12-25T04:38:48Z beach: How does it differ from CLIM II? 2014-12-25T04:39:08Z nyef: I don't know yet. 2014-12-25T04:39:17Z nyef: It's badly incomplete right now. 2014-12-25T04:39:25Z beach: OK. 2014-12-25T04:40:22Z beach: Isn't there a darcs->GIT converter somewhere? 2014-12-25T04:41:05Z nyef: Yeah, I used to have one installed. 2014-12-25T04:41:18Z nyef: But that was three or four installs ago. 2014-12-25T04:42:17Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-25T04:50:52Z beach: This reminds me that I really should work on CLIMatis from time to time. It's just that there is so much to do with SICL and Cleavir. 2014-12-25T04:54:33Z yeticry joined #lisp 2014-12-25T04:56:17Z nikki93 joined #lisp 2014-12-25T04:57:46Z beach: On the positive side, I think I finally figured out how to generate code for LOOP. That means 3 biggies under control: FORMAT, CLOS, and LOOP. The last biggie is the compiler of course, and that one is only partially done. 2014-12-25T04:59:37Z yeticry quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-25T05:01:01Z nikki93 quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-12-25T05:02:54Z Evidlo: Can this be more LISPy? http://ix.io/9zG 2014-12-25T05:03:05Z zyaku quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-12-25T05:03:10Z Evidlo: It's my first LISP program 2014-12-25T05:03:42Z beach: Evidlo: First of all, never put a closing parenthesis by itself on a line. 2014-12-25T05:03:57Z zRecursive left #lisp 2014-12-25T05:04:20Z beach: Evidlo: Second, use 3 semicolons for comments at the top level. 2014-12-25T05:04:53Z Bicyclidine: Evidlo: use let instead of setq. 2014-12-25T05:04:54Z beach: Evidlo: Third, it is not permitted to use SETQ on a variable that is not defined. 2014-12-25T05:04:56Z mband joined #lisp 2014-12-25T05:05:23Z Bicyclidine: Evidlo: and you can use push instead of that setq append thing. 2014-12-25T05:05:24Z beach: Evidlo: Fourth, indent your code according to standard rules. 2014-12-25T05:05:37Z frkout_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-25T05:06:04Z frkout joined #lisp 2014-12-25T05:06:12Z logloglogloglog joined #lisp 2014-12-25T05:07:22Z beach: Evidlo: Also, we use "LISP" to refer to the language as it existed in the 1970s. Now, we write it "Lisp". 2014-12-25T05:10:53Z beach: Evidlo: Did you faint? 2014-12-25T05:11:43Z Evidlo: I'm applying the changes 2014-12-25T05:11:53Z beach: Great! 2014-12-25T05:13:14Z beach: You may also want to avoid calling ASSOC twice. 2014-12-25T05:13:18Z Evidlo: How do I use let to create an empty a-list? 2014-12-25T05:13:21Z s00pcan_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-25T05:13:33Z beach: Evidlo: (let ((empty-list '())) ...) 2014-12-25T05:13:34Z nell joined #lisp 2014-12-25T05:14:11Z pjb: Evidlo: you cannot create an empty a-list or an empty list in lisp, since there are no list abstract data type in lisp! 2014-12-25T05:14:28Z pjb: Evidlo: all you can do is to use the symbol NIL also written () to denote the empty list. 2014-12-25T05:14:55Z pjb: You don't create it, it's always the same and it's immutable (CL:NIL is a constant bound to CL:NIL itself). 2014-12-25T05:15:25Z nell quit (Client Quit) 2014-12-25T05:15:45Z Bicyclidine: Evidlo: (let ((dict (list))) (dolist ...)) 2014-12-25T05:16:03Z Bicyclidine: Evidlo: setq isn't like a variable declaration in C or whatever. 2014-12-25T05:16:04Z pjb: (list) returns NIL, so you can avoid a function call with what beach suggested. 2014-12-25T05:16:55Z axion: what does "#." do? 2014-12-25T05:17:06Z beach: axion: Read-time evaluation. 2014-12-25T05:17:13Z beach: clhs #. 2014-12-25T05:17:13Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhf.htm 2014-12-25T05:17:21Z pjb: It's a reader macro that reads the following sexp, evaluates it, and return its result. 2014-12-25T05:18:01Z axion: thanks 2014-12-25T05:18:02Z Evidlo: Is this correct? (let ((test '()))) 2014-12-25T05:18:10Z Evidlo: It's telling me that test has no value when I try to use it 2014-12-25T05:18:23Z beach: Evidlo: You need to put the action in the body of the let. 2014-12-25T05:18:36Z beach: (let ((test '())) ) 2014-12-25T05:18:56Z pjb: This defines the variable test between ) and ) (the before last ")" and the last ")"). 2014-12-25T05:19:05Z Evidlo: Why not just have it in the 'global' scope? 2014-12-25T05:19:06Z pjb: Evidlo: so it is perfectly correct. 2014-12-25T05:19:24Z pjb: Because you used LET and LET do things in its local scope. 2014-12-25T05:19:35Z pjb: Evidlo: what about reading some tutorial or the reference? 2014-12-25T05:19:47Z beach: Evidlo: Because that's the way it is? 2014-12-25T05:20:08Z Evidlo: The tutorial is all about emacs, which I don't use 2014-12-25T05:20:20Z Evidlo: I've been going to various university CS websites 2014-12-25T05:20:30Z beach: Evidlo: Oh, that's too bad. 2014-12-25T05:20:31Z pjb: Evidlo: Sure. When I want to use a drill, I read the manual of a microwave. 2014-12-25T05:20:58Z Posterdati quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-12-25T05:21:15Z pjb: Evidlo: try: http://cliki.net http://cliki.net/Getting+Started http://cliki.net/Online+Tutorial 2014-12-25T05:21:26Z Posterdati joined #lisp 2014-12-25T05:23:14Z Evidlo: Ok, I'll look at those 2014-12-25T05:23:21Z Evidlo: Also, here's the update program http://ix.io/9Aa 2014-12-25T05:23:46Z Evidlo: I don't know how to eliminate the 2 assocs 2014-12-25T05:24:05Z Evidlo: Or the extra assoc 2014-12-25T05:24:18Z pjb: using a temporary variable to hold the entry. 2014-12-25T05:24:27Z beach: Evidlo: (let ((entry (assoc ...))) (if (null assoc) ...)) 2014-12-25T05:24:33Z pjb: Strangely enough, when learning Lisp, people tend to forget how to program. 2014-12-25T05:24:46Z pjb: s/null assoc/null entry/ 2014-12-25T05:24:53Z beach: OOPS. 2014-12-25T05:24:53Z Evidlo: Well I didn't know whether it would be a copy or not 2014-12-25T05:24:55Z beach: Thanks 2014-12-25T05:25:06Z beach: pjb: Some people never knew how. 2014-12-25T05:25:14Z pjb: That must be the key :-) 2014-12-25T05:25:21Z beach: Evidlo: Nothing is ever implicitly copied in Lisp. 2014-12-25T05:25:30Z beach: Evidlo: You really need to indent your program properly. 2014-12-25T05:25:49Z Evidlo: I don't know what you mean 2014-12-25T05:25:51Z pjb: Evidlo: In Common Lisp, nothing is copied automatically, apart for possibly numbers and characters (but since they're immutable, you wouldn't notice it (unless you used EQ on them)). 2014-12-25T05:26:11Z pjb: Evidlo: basically, it means: use emacs and let it do the indentation automatically for you. 2014-12-25T05:26:33Z beach: Evidlo: Lisp programmers don't count parentheses. They rely on indentation to figure out the logic. If you don't indent your program properly, the person reading your code can't trust the indentation, so you force that person to count parentheses. 2014-12-25T05:26:59Z Evidlo: Oh, well I just forgot about the if 2014-12-25T05:27:36Z beach: Evidlo: What do you mean? 2014-12-25T05:27:51Z Evidlo: Aren't you talking about my unindented (if 2014-12-25T05:28:12Z beach: Evidlo: No, it's all wrong: the body of DEFUN, the body of LET, the IF, the body of DOLIST. 2014-12-25T05:28:44Z logloglogloglog quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-25T05:29:54Z pjb: Also, don't use TAB. 2014-12-25T05:30:39Z yeticry joined #lisp 2014-12-25T05:31:05Z pjb: Evidlo: http://paste.lisp.org/+33SY 2014-12-25T05:33:41Z nyef: Xach: 065577617c4af5b9ae8a9d2b7cde3585482f0c01 is the first bad commit 2014-12-25T05:33:50Z nyef: New feature: signal a style-warning on most failures to inline. 2014-12-25T05:34:18Z beach: Evidlo: The way you say that you don't use Emacs sounds like it's a matter of principle. If so, and if you want to program in Lisp, you may want to rethink that decision. 2014-12-25T05:34:22Z pjb: Evidlo: you may also write it as: http://paste.lisp.org/+33SY/1 since dolist and dotimes have a result expression. 2014-12-25T05:34:57Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-25T05:35:02Z Evidlo: It just doesn't make sense to me to learn an editor just to use a language. 2014-12-25T05:35:14Z Evidlo: It's almost like Eclipse + Java 2014-12-25T05:35:32Z beach: Evidlo: You may want to change your mind about that. 2014-12-25T05:35:37Z pjb: Evidlo: indeed. That's why you'd use emacs for EVERYTHING! 2014-12-25T05:35:53Z Evidlo: I will never change my mind about Eclipse 2014-12-25T05:36:13Z beach: Evidlo: You may want to learn Emacs in order to program in Lisp. 2014-12-25T05:36:42Z beach: Evidlo: The problem with your reasoning is that you seem to think that Emacs is just an editor. 2014-12-25T05:37:04Z beach: Evidlo: Emacs is the basis of the most widely used IDE for Lisp: SLIME. 2014-12-25T05:37:04Z pjb: From preparing your coffee in the morning with coffee.el (htcpcp implementation) email, irc, news, web, spreadsheet, organization, writing specifications and documentation, writing programs in any programming language, to physical relief in the evening with emacs teledildonics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D1sXuHnf_lo 2014-12-25T05:37:52Z Evidlo: They say emacs is a good OS 2014-12-25T05:38:01Z pjb: You can draw diagrams with emacs, or perform video editing! 2014-12-25T05:38:13Z Evidlo: the only thing its missing is an editor 2014-12-25T05:38:40Z pjb: Indeed. Instead, it has an editor template, and you create your own personal editor on it. 2014-12-25T05:38:55Z setmeaway joined #lisp 2014-12-25T05:38:58Z pjb: That's why it's the best editor, for each of its users. 2014-12-25T05:39:51Z Evidlo: Maybe 2014-12-25T05:40:10Z Evidlo: I've been using vim for a year an a half now 2014-12-25T05:40:26Z beach: Oh, that's nothing. 2014-12-25T05:40:28Z pjb: The only defect of emacs, is that it's not written in Common Lisp, but in emacs lisp (Common Lisp wasn't ready when GNU emacs development was started). 2014-12-25T05:40:35Z beach: Evidlo: There is still time to change then. 2014-12-25T05:40:54Z pjb: The only thing emacs users regret, is not having used emacs earlier. 2014-12-25T05:41:31Z beach: Luckily, I have used Emacs for 30 years. It's a great investment. 2014-12-25T05:41:44Z Evidlo: How does elisp differ from common Lisp 2014-12-25T05:41:56Z pjb: I must be reaching 22 years of emacs. 2014-12-25T05:42:17Z pjb: Evidlo: less and less with releases :-) 2014-12-25T05:42:17Z beach: Evidlo: Emacs Lisp is a strange dialect, but it is similar to Common Lisp in many respects. 2014-12-25T05:42:49Z Zhivago: Except for popularity. :) 2014-12-25T05:43:51Z pjb: It's missing CLOS, real structure type, strings are not vectors, there is no multidimentional arrays, no character type, no package (namespace) system, it can't do trivial arithmetic: (/ 2 3) -> 0, or bignums, etc. 2014-12-25T05:44:08Z pjb: But it has a nice library to write textual user interfaces and to edit text buffers. 2014-12-25T05:44:57Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-12-25T05:49:05Z pllx joined #lisp 2014-12-25T05:49:27Z vinleod joined #lisp 2014-12-25T05:58:09Z arpunk quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-25T05:58:09Z byte48 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-25T05:58:26Z nyef quit (Quit: G'night all) 2014-12-25T05:58:46Z mingvs quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-12-25T05:58:46Z ska-fan quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-12-25T05:59:32Z mingvs joined #lisp 2014-12-25T05:59:34Z byte48 joined #lisp 2014-12-25T06:00:15Z byte48 is now known as Guest53776 2014-12-25T06:00:38Z ska-fan joined #lisp 2014-12-25T06:01:54Z BitPuffin joined #lisp 2014-12-25T06:02:42Z mband quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-12-25T06:03:36Z mband joined #lisp 2014-12-25T06:06:52Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-12-25T06:10:52Z nisscrooge quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-12-25T06:11:21Z mband quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-25T06:11:36Z madalu quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-25T06:13:26Z setmeaway quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-12-25T06:13:40Z nisscrooge joined #lisp 2014-12-25T06:15:32Z nisscrooge is now known as nisstyre 2014-12-25T06:15:42Z nisstyre quit (Changing host) 2014-12-25T06:15:42Z nisstyre joined #lisp 2014-12-25T06:15:48Z nisstyre is now known as nisscrooge 2014-12-25T06:17:13Z mband joined #lisp 2014-12-25T06:18:39Z enitiz quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-25T06:21:06Z mrkkrp joined #lisp 2014-12-25T06:21:09Z yeticry joined #lisp 2014-12-25T06:23:53Z Evidlo: Lisptutor Jr is really cool 2014-12-25T06:25:17Z mband quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-25T06:25:39Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-25T06:26:56Z ozzloy quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-25T06:27:30Z ozzloy joined #lisp 2014-12-25T06:33:21Z nell joined #lisp 2014-12-25T06:40:29Z mband joined #lisp 2014-12-25T06:41:33Z milosn joined #lisp 2014-12-25T06:42:13Z psy_ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-12-25T06:45:12Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-12-25T06:45:50Z mband quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-25T06:51:00Z kristof quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-25T06:51:47Z pllx quit (Quit: zz) 2014-12-25T06:54:00Z GGMethos joined #lisp 2014-12-25T06:56:03Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2014-12-25T07:02:51Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-12-25T07:02:54Z kcj joined #lisp 2014-12-25T07:11:08Z Adlai: agh, why can't I do (:method-combination standard :most-specific-last) 2014-12-25T07:11:29Z axion: i have a function that relies on (package-name *package*) that i'd like to move to a generic library as part of my system. is there anyway i can have it resolve to the name of the calling package rather than the utility library's package? 2014-12-25T07:12:47Z Zhivago: Calling package makes no sense. Why does it rely on package-name? 2014-12-25T07:13:48Z psy joined #lisp 2014-12-25T07:13:59Z axion: it basically does (asdf:s-r-p) on it to get the full path to resources to load 2014-12-25T07:15:38Z Zhivago: Ok, so what's the issue with (package-name *package*)? 2014-12-25T07:16:06Z axion: nothing currently, but the function with that will be a generic library soon. therefor will be looking in the wrong directory 2014-12-25T07:16:36Z Zhivago: Why would that matter at all? 2014-12-25T07:17:15Z axion: because i want it to look in a directory relative to the calling package as to not get Condition of type ASDF/FIND-SYSTEM:MISSING-COMPONENT 2014-12-25T07:17:17Z Zhivago: Think about what *package* means and when it gets evaluated. 2014-12-25T07:17:45Z Zhivago: 'calling package' is gibberish. 2014-12-25T07:18:01Z axion: ok nevermind then 2014-12-25T07:18:15Z Zhivago: Think about *package* some more. 2014-12-25T07:18:22Z axion: sure 2014-12-25T07:19:15Z tkhoa2711 joined #lisp 2014-12-25T07:19:56Z axion: so somehow i need a way to get the system name then 2014-12-25T07:20:02Z axion: i'll google thanks 2014-12-25T07:22:02Z Zhivago: Did you understand that defining that functiom in a different package won't affect what (package-name *package*) does? 2014-12-25T07:22:14Z beach: Adlai: Presumably because the standard method combination does not take any arguments. 2014-12-25T07:22:52Z axion: not really. 2014-12-25T07:23:33Z beach: Adlai: If you look at the Common Lisp HyperSpec page for DEFINE-METHOD-COMBINATION, you can see that there is an example that shows how the standard method combination is defined. 2014-12-25T07:24:00Z Adlai: right. it could treat this the same as the built-in combinations... 2014-12-25T07:24:26Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-12-25T07:24:39Z innertracks quit (Client Quit) 2014-12-25T07:24:46Z Adlai: specifically, I want the least specific around method to execute first 2014-12-25T07:25:23Z Adlai: haven't written any subclasses yet, so we'll cross this bridge if/when we get there 2014-12-25T07:26:04Z Zhivago: axion: I'd work on understanding that, first, then. 2014-12-25T07:26:25Z axion: right. i won't ask to understand again 2014-12-25T07:26:33Z Adlai finds a better solution which doesn't require changing the standard :D 2014-12-25T07:26:41Z axion left #lisp 2014-12-25T07:26:49Z Bicyclidine: it's not in https://github.com/sellout/method-combination-utilities. weird 2014-12-25T07:28:26Z Adlai: (catch :halt (call-next-method)) really belongs in a separate function, rather than an around method of this one 2014-12-25T07:29:37Z nell quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1-rc1) 2014-12-25T07:29:40Z ManglerPHD joined #lisp 2014-12-25T07:29:45Z frkout_ joined #lisp 2014-12-25T07:33:22Z frkout quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-12-25T07:33:51Z nikki93 joined #lisp 2014-12-25T07:41:50Z nisscrooge quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-25T07:45:53Z yeticry joined #lisp 2014-12-25T07:50:30Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 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stassats: slime bothering again, now even restarting emacs doesn't get me the latest slime 2014-12-25T09:56:15Z stassats: because it now decides to compile slime.el but isn't smart enough to recompile 2014-12-25T09:56:32Z Shinmera: I noticed that as well. 2014-12-25T09:58:33Z stassats: and now way to disable compilation, i never needed it 2014-12-25T09:59:58Z abeaumont_ quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-12-25T09:59:59Z stassats: hm, deleting slime.elc doesn't seem to recreate it, ok then 2014-12-25T10:01:37Z stassats: ok then, i shouldn't have run make sometime ago 2014-12-25T10:02:53Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-25T10:05:03Z tharugrim quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-25T10:05:16Z kcj quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-25T10:06:42Z tharugrim joined #lisp 2014-12-25T10:08:26Z ndrei quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-25T10:10:42Z nikki93: stassats: are you using the quicklisp slime version? or melpa latest 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2014-12-25T12:36:05Z Ukari: Christmas guys 2014-12-25T12:37:02Z Evidlo: crissmiss 2014-12-25T12:38:14Z stassats`: minion: chant 2014-12-25T12:38:14Z minion: MORE LISPY 2014-12-25T12:38:27Z towodo joined #lisp 2014-12-25T12:39:16Z towodo quit (Client Quit) 2014-12-25T12:46:08Z Quadrescence: (FLATTEN '(#1=(HAPPY . #1#) HOLIDAYS)) 2014-12-25T12:46:28Z _5kg quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-12-25T12:46:28Z stassats`: holidays tend to fatten people up 2014-12-25T12:50:39Z tkhoa2711 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-25T12:50:42Z Quadrescence: :) 2014-12-25T12:52:27Z jusss quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-25T12:56:47Z tkhoa2711 joined #lisp 2014-12-25T12:56:57Z scymtym joined #lisp 2014-12-25T12:58:15Z motersen joined #lisp 2014-12-25T12:58:31Z hardenedapple_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-25T12:58:49Z hardenedapple_ joined #lisp 2014-12-25T12:59:23Z tkhoa2711 quit (Client Quit) 2014-12-25T12:59:56Z ManglerPHD quit (Quit: Page closed) 2014-12-25T13:00:03Z axion joined #lisp 2014-12-25T13:00:24Z tkhoa2711 joined #lisp 2014-12-25T13:02:36Z Quadrescence quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-12-25T13:03:29Z ggole joined #lisp 2014-12-25T13:06:51Z pnpuff quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-12-25T13:11:56Z drdanmaku quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-12-25T13:12:24Z milosn quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-25T13:12:57Z motersen quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-12-25T13:24:17Z tkhoa2711 quit (Quit: tkhoa2711) 2014-12-25T13:24:54Z towodo joined #lisp 2014-12-25T13:25:21Z akkad: amazing the differences in assembler than the various lisps generate 2014-12-25T13:26:11Z |3b|: well, if they weren't different we wouldn't need more than one :) 2014-12-25T13:26:58Z akkad: I mean on mips I get totally different results than vax/sh/ppc/x86 2014-12-25T13:27:36Z stassats`: huh? 2014-12-25T13:27:37Z |3b| would hope so, ppc asm wouldn't work very well on a mips cpu 2014-12-25T13:28:21Z ggole: Not much vax assembly flying around these days... 2014-12-25T13:28:28Z eudoxia joined #lisp 2014-12-25T13:30:40Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2014-12-25T13:31:58Z tkhoa2711 joined #lisp 2014-12-25T13:32:01Z mtakagi joined #lisp 2014-12-25T13:34:56Z oudeis joined #lisp 2014-12-25T13:35:53Z _5kg joined #lisp 2014-12-25T13:42:25Z AntiSpamMeta quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-25T13:42:39Z AntiSpamMeta joined #lisp 2014-12-25T13:43:06Z zophy quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-12-25T13:43:30Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-25T13:44:23Z sol__: hi, need help figuring out why the 'else' clause to the if doesn't work... http://ideone.com/nySl8Y 2014-12-25T13:45:08Z stassats`: it doesn't? 2014-12-25T13:45:31Z sol__: nope, when i make successive calls to (funcall fibo) it always return 1 2014-12-25T13:45:46Z sol__: even emacs indentation doesn't place the else under the if properly... 2014-12-25T13:46:12Z sol__: (setf fibo (make-fibo)) (funcall fibo) is what i meant of course... 2014-12-25T13:47:14Z |3b|: right, 0 + 1 = 1 2014-12-25T13:47:17Z |3b|: 1 = 1 2014-12-25T13:48:03Z |3b|: every other 1 is from the else clause 2014-12-25T13:48:51Z |3b|: after which fib0 and fib1 are both 1, triggering the first clause which resets them to 0,1 again 2014-12-25T13:49:30Z stassats`: use zerop 2014-12-25T13:49:32Z stassats`: instead 2014-12-25T13:50:08Z sol__: don't understand the code with the (let ((res ... should run only when fib0 and fib1 are not equal 2014-12-25T13:50:10Z |3b|: or initialize to 0,1 or 1,1 2014-12-25T13:50:16Z sol__: which is always but the first time 2014-12-25T13:50:29Z sol__: oh wait 2014-12-25T13:50:30Z sol__: ok 2014-12-25T13:50:32Z sol__: :X 2014-12-25T13:50:35Z stassats`: you could read what |3b| said 2014-12-25T13:51:29Z pjb: axion: do you use asdf or apdf ? 2014-12-25T13:53:08Z stassats`: sol__: http://ideone.com/JXQRvg 2014-12-25T14:03:24Z zyaku joined #lisp 2014-12-25T14:04:04Z axion: pjb: asdf 2014-12-25T14:05:52Z tkhoa2711 quit (Quit: tkhoa2711) 2014-12-25T14:07:23Z gabriel_laddel: has anyone succeeded in 'unwinding' maxima and write lisp instead of the algol syntax it's got? 2014-12-25T14:07:30Z gabriel_laddel: *writing lisp 2014-12-25T14:09:02Z stassats`: it's in the manual 2014-12-25T14:10:48Z gabriel_laddel: stassats`: apologies, that was vague. you can get to the lisp prompt, connect with swank easily etc. I was curious if anyone has gone all the way with this to the point of not loading in the algol sublanguage, lisp -> latex export by default etc. 2014-12-25T14:11:24Z gabriel_laddel: I'm guessing no, having searched a little bit, but figured I'd ask on the off chance that someone has the hack lying around. 2014-12-25T14:13:56Z edgar-rft joined #lisp 2014-12-25T14:16:09Z ejbs joined #lisp 2014-12-25T14:25:21Z tkhoa2711 joined #lisp 2014-12-25T14:27:32Z oudeis quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-12-25T14:28:00Z ejbs: Oh right, it's Christmas. No point being here 2014-12-25T14:33:00Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-25T14:36:20Z Xach: Boo 2014-12-25T14:36:30Z Xach: What better day to chat about Lisp?? 2014-12-25T14:36:41Z Shinmera: (make-package "present") 2014-12-25T14:36:46Z jumblerg joined #lisp 2014-12-25T14:38:28Z Shinmera is spending his day reading Naggum articles 2014-12-25T14:38:44Z gabriel_laddel: Shinmera: always a treat. 2014-12-25T14:38:54Z Shinmera: I've been doing that quite often lately. 2014-12-25T14:38:57Z Shinmera: So much to read. 2014-12-25T14:39:18Z dim: here it's big'o'refactoring day 2014-12-25T14:39:25Z Riviera quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-12-25T14:39:29Z dim: breaking software at christmas, what else? 2014-12-25T14:40:17Z Shinmera should be finishing a refactoring of an internal part of his web framework, but isn't sure about the way to go about it and his colleague isn't here to discuss it with. 2014-12-25T14:40:33Z stassats` is modifying the function prologue sequence of SBCL to get all the arguments on argcount mismatch errors 2014-12-25T14:40:40Z dim: try the no-colleague route, it has some advantages sometimes ;-) 2014-12-25T14:41:05Z Shinmera: dim: I already have, but my mind can't seem to come to a good conclusion, hence why I want colleague input. 2014-12-25T14:41:24Z dim: maybe what you need is to write some experimental code and see what happens? 2014-12-25T14:41:43Z stassats`: and it's sadly not as easy as it seems 2014-12-25T14:43:02Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-12-25T14:43:20Z Shinmera: dim: Well, it's not a question of it breaking or not, but rather how awkward it will become to use architecturally, which is much harder to test in reasonable time. 2014-12-25T14:43:39Z Shinmera: dim: Hence why I want different perspectives on it, to see if I'm missing anything that would decide a certain way to go about it. 2014-12-25T14:43:51Z dim: yeah 2014-12-25T14:43:58Z gabriel_laddel quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-25T14:44:08Z EvW joined #lisp 2014-12-25T14:46:30Z nyef joined #lisp 2014-12-25T14:46:48Z nyef: G'morning all, happy Christmas. 2014-12-25T14:46:54Z Shinmera: Hullo 2014-12-25T14:46:54Z stassats`: (funcall (lambda (x y) y) 1 2 3 4) now shows ((LAMBDA (X Y)) 1 2 3 4) 2014-12-25T14:47:12Z towodo quit (Quit: towodo) 2014-12-25T14:47:45Z dim: I can't seem to stop and define the scope of my refactoring 2014-12-25T14:48:01Z dim: rewritting too much at a time doesn't seem such a good way at it 2014-12-25T14:48:37Z stassats`: not having mips, alpha, and sparc is making things too difficult 2014-12-25T14:48:58Z nyef: dim: Total scope, or per-commit scope? 2014-12-25T14:49:00Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-12-25T14:49:00Z Riviera joined #lisp 2014-12-25T14:49:28Z nyef: stassats`: Dare I ask what you're trying to do? 2014-12-25T14:49:42Z stassats`: * stassats` is modifying the function prologue sequence of SBCL to get all the arguments on argcount mismatch errors 2014-12-25T14:49:49Z nyef: Ahh. 2014-12-25T14:49:49Z stassats`: nyef: try (funcall (lambda (x y) y) 1 2 3 4) 2014-12-25T14:50:17Z stassats`: now it's ((LAMBDA (X Y)) # 2 # #) 2014-12-25T14:50:20Z nyef: ((LAMBDA (X Y)) # 2 # #) [tl,external] 2014-12-25T14:50:24Z stassats`: and i have ((LAMBDA (X Y)) 1 2 3 4) 2014-12-25T14:50:34Z Shinmera: stassats`: That is really nice 2014-12-25T14:51:09Z dim: nyef: both are hard 2014-12-25T14:51:13Z stassats`: i can manage to do that portably without modifying VOPs 2014-12-25T14:51:33Z dim: nyef: I'm trying to have every commit pass the test though, so that helps defining the per-commit scope, it's the whole thing, full stop 2014-12-25T14:51:33Z tkhoa2711 quit (Quit: tkhoa2711) 2014-12-25T14:52:02Z nyef: dim: Per-commit scope is easy for me: All commits must pass the test suite, and all refactoring commits must be a SINGLE change. 2014-12-25T14:52:17Z dim: that's what I'm doing here 2014-12-25T14:52:20Z nyef: Rename a variable? Commit! Extract a method? Commit! 2014-12-25T14:52:36Z dim: here it's refactor the whole mess around connection handling 2014-12-25T14:52:37Z stassats`: i would just need split the arg-count checking out of make-xep-lambda-expression 2014-12-25T14:52:48Z dim: database source connection, file based connection with http and archive support, the whole thing 2014-12-25T14:52:58Z dim: so I'm thinking http and archive might be the next commit after all 2014-12-25T14:53:01Z nyef: Beyond that, I'd suggest setting either a goal or simply timeboxing. 2014-12-25T14:53:25Z dim: I want a single defgeneric based API for all the connections I'm handling, I want to stop adding defparameters to hold things 2014-12-25T14:53:37Z pppp2 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-25T14:53:44Z dim: nyef: I'm working on the 3rd connection type here, so it's going well 2014-12-25T14:53:59Z Riviera quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-12-25T14:54:13Z dim: (with-connection (var (parse-connection-string "foo://user@host:port/dbname")) ...) is my goal 2014-12-25T14:54:34Z dim: foo being pgsql, mysql, mssql, sqlite, csv, fixed, dbf, ixf, etc 2014-12-25T14:54:53Z stassats`: ((LAMBDA (X Y)) 1 2 {3 4}) could be useful as well 2014-12-25T14:55:00Z nyef: So, parse-connection-string starts by finding the protocol name, then bounces to a protocol-specific parsing function? 2014-12-25T14:55:02Z dim: I don't have timeboxing, I hope to be done somewhen in the night, maybe tomorrow 2014-12-25T14:55:16Z dim: nyef: yeah I already have that parts, using esrap for that 2014-12-25T14:55:23Z stassats`: and maybe ((LAMBDA (X Y)) 1 {missing}) 2014-12-25T14:55:36Z dim: it's not exactly done that way yet because I started the usual way, custom code everywhere 2014-12-25T14:55:46Z nyef: Timeboxing is easy to set up: "I have until 3 PM. After that, it gets left alone for a while." 2014-12-25T14:55:54Z dim: I have a rule to never refactor to a common API before the 3rd API use case is fully implemented 2014-12-25T14:56:08Z dim: nyef: in my case it's like I have until monday ;-) 2014-12-25T14:56:11Z tkhoa2711 joined #lisp 2014-12-25T14:56:19Z pegu joined #lisp 2014-12-25T14:56:27Z dim: no that's not true, I have until it's finished 2014-12-25T14:56:34Z dim: it's a mess currently, it needs fixing 2014-12-25T14:56:53Z dim: if I want other people to be able to contribute, or even to use my code as a lib rather than a finished product, I don't have a choice 2014-12-25T14:57:02Z nyef: But it doesn't necessarily need fixing Right Now. 2014-12-25T14:57:09Z dim: I decided it does 2014-12-25T14:57:19Z oudeis joined #lisp 2014-12-25T14:57:24Z dim: it's been in a corner of my head for too long now 2014-12-25T14:57:31Z dim: and it's well on its way ;-) 2014-12-25T14:57:41Z nyef: Okay then. But know that that's your decision. 2014-12-25T14:57:50Z dim: oh yeah 2014-12-25T14:57:52Z nyef: And that you can revisit it at any time. 2014-12-25T14:58:10Z dim: I'm just having to decide to do the http and archives support in a later commit rather than in the middle of the current activity 2014-12-25T14:58:26Z dim: and I decided later commit 2014-12-25T14:59:03Z dim: stassats`: I like the {3 4} as a way to show what's unexpected 2014-12-25T14:59:20Z stassats`: using a different font in slime would be possible as well 2014-12-25T14:59:26Z dim: maybe the specifics of the {} have to be considered, but I don't know enough of the habits of SBCL error messages to be helpful here 2014-12-25T14:59:43Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2014-12-25T14:59:59Z stassats`: it could be ((LAMBDA (X Y)) 1 2) 3 4 2014-12-25T15:01:30Z kapil__ quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-12-25T15:06:01Z hardenedapple_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-12-25T15:06:13Z mtakagi quit 2014-12-25T15:10:17Z Ethan- quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-25T15:12:50Z Joreji joined #lisp 2014-12-25T15:13:33Z arpunk joined #lisp 2014-12-25T15:14:49Z sol__: how can i change an argument passed to function? like a referecne/pointer 2014-12-25T15:15:55Z stassats`: you can't 2014-12-25T15:16:33Z sol__: so if i want to increment a variable i need to setf it? i want to write an increment-mod function 2014-12-25T15:16:45Z sol__: (increment-mod 5 6) ==> 0 2014-12-25T15:16:52Z sol__: (increment-mod 4 6) ==> 5 2014-12-25T15:17:05Z sol__: but instead if its a variable i want it to have the new value 2014-12-25T15:17:12Z sol__: too bad i can't :P 2014-12-25T15:17:48Z tkhoa2711 quit (Quit: tkhoa2711) 2014-12-25T15:18:28Z nyef: clhs define-setf-expander 2014-12-25T15:18:28Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defi_3.htm 2014-12-25T15:18:46Z stassats`: clhs incf 2014-12-25T15:18:46Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_incf_.htm 2014-12-25T15:18:55Z nyef: ... right, my bad. 2014-12-25T15:18:59Z stassats`: it ain't no function 2014-12-25T15:19:04Z nyef: Wrong side of the SETF expansion thing. 2014-12-25T15:20:09Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-12-25T15:23:32Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-25T15:28:20Z pjb: axion: then why are you dealing with *package* names instead of system names? 2014-12-25T15:28:48Z pjb: ASDF = Another SYSTEM Definition Facility, not Aoother PACKAGE Definition Facility. 2014-12-25T15:29:28Z |3b|: pjb: as a proxy for system name, to avoid specifying system name explicitly when it matches the package name? 2014-12-25T15:29:39Z pjb: Bullshit! 2014-12-25T15:29:54Z pjb: Use (load-time-value asdf/operate:*systems-being-operated*) if you want to record the system name. 2014-12-25T15:30:11Z |3b|: complain to the person who suggested it to him them 2014-12-25T15:30:39Z |3b|: and the system might no be being "operated on" at the time when the data files are loaded, so that doesn't help 2014-12-25T15:30:50Z pjb: |3b|: and who would that be? 2014-12-25T15:31:02Z pjb: |3b|: clhs load-time-value. 2014-12-25T15:31:21Z |3b| doesn't remember, scroll up in #lispgames if you were there 2014-12-25T15:31:35Z |3b|: pjb: or defparameter 2014-12-25T15:31:57Z pjb: If you just channels… 2014-12-25T15:32:01Z pjb: s/just/jump/ 2014-12-25T15:33:23Z s00pcan_ joined #lisp 2014-12-25T15:33:41Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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In util-system we need to define function/macro, which when used in user-system (which can be used somewhere else itself) will return path to user-system directory. 2014-12-25T16:00:40Z oudeis quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-12-25T16:01:56Z pjb: I'd expect (load-time-value asdf/operate:*systems-being-operated*) to do that. 2014-12-25T16:01:56Z soggybread: with idea being that function/macro just works without passing system name explicitly 2014-12-25T16:02:26Z soggybread: asdf/operate:*systems-being-operated* is hash-table... 2014-12-25T16:02:58Z |3b| notes that *package* probably won't have the right value either at the point where the data is loaded 2014-12-25T16:03:13Z pjb: Then either there is some other asdf variable similar to *compile-file-pathname* or *load-pathname*, or it must be added. 2014-12-25T16:03:29Z pjb: It could also be a stack, since asdf recursively loads or compile things. 2014-12-25T16:03:37Z soggybread: |3b|: (defmacro get-system-resources-path () `(asdf:system-relative-pathname (intern (package-name ,*package*) :keyword) "")) works... but, as I understand it, only because package-name and system name are the same 2014-12-25T16:03:52Z pjb: The point is that there is absolutely no correlation between packages and systems. 2014-12-25T16:04:20Z |3b| thinks there is quite a bit of correlation, but no requirement for such, so relying on it is a bad idea 2014-12-25T16:04:36Z pjb: Two different systems can define things in the same package. A single system can define different packages. 2014-12-25T16:04:45Z Ukari quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-25T16:04:45Z |3b|: right 2014-12-25T16:05:30Z soggybread: so the question is, does asdf define "some other variable" with needed value :) 2014-12-25T16:05:53Z soggybread: i searched manual and failed to find it. 2014-12-25T16:06:48Z Bicyclidine: http://xach.livejournal.com/294639.html maybe this would help 2014-12-25T16:07:48Z |3b| thinks the basic API should be to have an explicit parameter and/or special var, which can be initialized to one of the things people are suggesting 2014-12-25T16:07:56Z |3b|: instead of just using them directly 2014-12-25T16:08:25Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-25T16:08:52Z dagnachew joined #lisp 2014-12-25T16:09:05Z nikki93 joined #lisp 2014-12-25T16:13:45Z nikki93 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-25T16:22:17Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-12-25T16:22:31Z pjb: soggybread: I didn't find such a variable in the sources either. A feature request might be in order. 2014-12-25T16:23:38Z pjb: The problem is indeed to find the first argument in (asdf:system-relative-pathname 'app #p"font.ttf"). 2014-12-25T16:23:42Z towodo joined #lisp 2014-12-25T16:24:22Z towodo quit (Client Quit) 2014-12-25T16:24:25Z eudoxia joined #lisp 2014-12-25T16:24:44Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-12-25T16:28:17Z hardenedapple_ joined #lisp 2014-12-25T16:33:45Z optikalmouse joined #lisp 2014-12-25T16:34:51Z aftershave quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-12-25T16:37:45Z yeticry joined #lisp 2014-12-25T16:42:13Z Xach: dim: https://github.com/xach/buildapp/issues/19 updated - eschulte submitted a patch 2014-12-25T16:42:51Z yeticry quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-25T16:43:15Z dim: want me to test it? 2014-12-25T16:43:40Z ejbs: Xach, nice beard. 2014-12-25T16:44:46Z dagnachew quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1) 2014-12-25T16:47:19Z Xach: dim: if you like. i think it is so simple that it must work. testing doesn't hurt. 2014-12-25T16:47:23Z aftershave joined #lisp 2014-12-25T16:47:44Z Xach: ejbs: https://www.flickr.com/photos/xach/15900836366/ shows a more recent version 2014-12-25T16:48:17Z dim: I might be able to test that later, after that refactoring 2014-12-25T16:48:28Z dim: and I'm progressing slowly in between guitar sessions ;-) 2014-12-25T16:54:03Z yeticry joined #lisp 2014-12-25T16:55:30Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-25T16:55:53Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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I need a readline-like library, so I can use custom function to generate completions, etc. 'linedit' seems to be not quite usable without certain magical intervention... 2014-12-25T17:11:22Z optikalmouse quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-12-25T17:13:59Z hardenedapple_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-25T17:15:29Z fsvehla joined #lisp 2014-12-25T17:16:48Z hzp: mrkkrp: what's wrong with linedit specifically? Maybe if you can explain the problem, someone might be able to help. 2014-12-25T17:18:31Z hzp: Once upon a time, some code in hemlock worked a bit like linedit. Internally it is using hemlock's buffer stuff, but the backend is a linedit-like tty backend (using relative tty movements) as opposed to the full tty backend (using absolute movements). 2014-12-25T17:19:09Z hzp: Unfortunately I'm pretty sure bitrot would currently prevent it from working properly. And admittedly it was never quite finished in the first place. But that would be a (somewhat heavyweight) alternative to linedit, if it worked. 2014-12-25T17:19:53Z malbertife_ joined #lisp 2014-12-25T17:20:21Z InvalidCo quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-25T17:20:25Z mrkkrp: hzp, first: when I call (linedit:linedit) from xfce terminal (under sbcl), so, when I press DOWN ARROW or UP ARROW or C-n or C-p to traverse history, some strange gibberish starts to appear on the screen. And there is no way to get rid of it.. 2014-12-25T17:21:08Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-12-25T17:21:15Z yeticry joined #lisp 2014-12-25T17:21:31Z mrkkrp: second: documentation sucks. Whole docs of linedit is a little README file. It documents two functions. And every description ends with 'Further keyword arguments to LINEDIT are an advanced and undocumented topic, but if you're willing to dive into sources you can eg. use multiple kill-rings not shared between different invocations of LINEDIT, or change the function responsible for providing input completion. 2014-12-25T17:21:37Z mrkkrp: ' 2014-12-25T17:22:05Z mrkkrp: so, as I understand decent hack is needed to make use of it 2014-12-25T17:23:02Z dim: readline works better than libedit, if you can stand its licensing 2014-12-25T17:23:17Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-25T17:24:18Z mrkkrp: dim, do you mean bindings to gnu readline? where can I get them? (ql:system-apropos "readline") shows nothing.. 2014-12-25T17:24:39Z dim: that I don't know sorry 2014-12-25T17:26:03Z InvalidCo joined #lisp 2014-12-25T17:26:30Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-25T17:26:52Z hzp: hmm, linedit C-p works for me without gibberish (what kind of gibberish?) 2014-12-25T17:30:22Z InvalidCo quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-25T17:31:17Z nyef quit (Quit: Time for me to go) 2014-12-25T17:31:30Z InvalidCo joined #lisp 2014-12-25T17:31:33Z mrkkrp: hzp, rectangular letters with four digits inside. You can traverse existing history items, but when you get to the end of the history, further iterations produce these 'letters'. If you go back to existsing history items, gibberish doesn't dissappear and doesn't let you see a thing... 2014-12-25T17:31:41Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-12-25T17:32:24Z Denommus joined #lisp 2014-12-25T17:36:49Z nell quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-25T17:37:15Z vaporatorius joined #lisp 2014-12-25T17:39:17Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-25T17:43:59Z theseb joined #lisp 2014-12-25T17:44:42Z gravicappa joined #lisp 2014-12-25T17:45:32Z yeticry joined #lisp 2014-12-25T17:46:29Z loz1 joined #lisp 2014-12-25T17:47:02Z superjudge_ is now known as superjudge 2014-12-25T17:49:37Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-25T17:52:01Z mrkkrp: well, writing bindings to gnu readline seems to be quite feasible task. I could do it. I guess I have to check cffi manual. 2014-12-25T17:52:57Z hiyosi quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2014-12-25T17:53:01Z dtw: mrkkrp, I use code like this for readline prompts: http://paste.lisp.org/display/144900 2014-12-25T17:57:49Z hzp: if FFI is an option, you could also go for libedit (i.e. the native libedit API, without going through the readline shim) 2014-12-25T17:59:21Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-12-25T18:02:18Z nell joined #lisp 2014-12-25T18:03:26Z mrkkrp: hzp, readline seems to be more mature and I'm not afraid of gnu gpl 2014-12-25T18:04:31Z towodo joined #lisp 2014-12-25T18:04:45Z drdanmaku joined #lisp 2014-12-25T18:05:16Z towodo quit (Client Quit) 2014-12-25T18:05:34Z yati_ joined #lisp 2014-12-25T18:09:29Z sol__: how can i remove characters from a string, at specified index? 2014-12-25T18:11:58Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-25T18:12:17Z kirin` quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-25T18:12:46Z Patzy joined #lisp 2014-12-25T18:14:17Z kirin` joined #lisp 2014-12-25T18:14:55Z mrkkrp: sol__, maybe something like (remove-if (constantly t) :start i :end (1+ i)) ?? 2014-12-25T18:15:21Z sol__: well actually i'm trying to do this while iterating over the string 2014-12-25T18:15:37Z stassats`: can't do that, naturally 2014-12-25T18:15:50Z mrkkrp: what are you trying to acheive? 2014-12-25T18:16:21Z sol__: to solve some riddle, doesn't really matter 2014-12-25T18:17:09Z sol__: point is, i want to erase chars while iterating over string :D 2014-12-25T18:17:14Z sol__: are cl strings immutable? 2014-12-25T18:17:23Z stassats`: no 2014-12-25T18:17:37Z mrkkrp: cl strings are vectors of chars 2014-12-25T18:17:52Z mrkkrp: you can append to them for example 2014-12-25T18:18:02Z mikaelj quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-25T18:18:54Z |3b|: might be easier to collect the others instead of removing some 2014-12-25T18:19:30Z mrkkrp: sol__, chances are you don't need to iterate over string, maybe you can use higher-order function 2014-12-25T18:19:38Z |3b|: (which is pretty much how removing them would have to work internally anyway) 2014-12-25T18:19:51Z sol__: i'm trying to keep it as efficient as possible 2014-12-25T18:20:11Z mrkkrp: what should happen to the string after iteration? 2014-12-25T18:20:35Z sol__: nothing, the output is the result 2014-12-25T18:20:42Z |3b|: well, even if you modify in place, you will be moving any characters after the first removed one, so copying whole thing isn't much worse 2014-12-25T18:20:45Z sol__: need to strip unneccessary chars from it 2014-12-25T18:21:09Z sol__: i get it, best is to create a new string with only the relevant parts... 2014-12-25T18:21:10Z |3b|: or maybe using a list of characters would fit the modifications you want to do better 2014-12-25T18:21:15Z shka joined #lisp 2014-12-25T18:21:19Z mrkkrp: take a look at remove-if 2014-12-25T18:21:20Z Bicyclidine: can't just use remove-if? 2014-12-25T18:21:51Z shka: good evening and merry Christmas fellow lispers 2014-12-25T18:22:34Z sol__: yea, remove-if is a good fit just was trying to figure out how strings work 2014-12-25T18:24:25Z tadni quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-12-25T18:24:25Z mrkkrp: ok, make adjustable vector of chars, then iterate over string and push every character from original string that you don't want to remove 2014-12-25T18:25:03Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-12-25T18:27:05Z mrkkrp: sol__, things that may be useful: make-array, vector-push-extend, char, dotimes, length 2014-12-25T18:28:23Z mrkkrp: shka, good evening 2014-12-25T18:29:18Z replcated_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-25T18:32:03Z replcated joined #lisp 2014-12-25T18:32:12Z ejbs quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-25T18:34:37Z yeticry joined #lisp 2014-12-25T18:36:45Z nell left #lisp 2014-12-25T18:38:53Z replcated quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-25T18:38:57Z theBlackDragon quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-25T18:39:47Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-12-25T18:40:03Z replcated joined #lisp 2014-12-25T18:40:46Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp 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seconds) 2014-12-25T19:59:50Z nikki93 quit (Read error: No route to host) 2014-12-25T20:00:11Z nikki93 joined #lisp 2014-12-25T20:00:41Z MrWoohoo quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]) 2014-12-25T20:01:39Z pjb: mrkkrp: you've been lied to. Not all strings are mutable. For example, The result of reading "abc" is not mutable. The result of (make-array 3 :element-type 'character :initial-contents "abc") is mutable. 2014-12-25T20:03:16Z pjb: mrkkrp: also, while you can modify the content of a mutable string, you can change the _length_ of the string ONLY if it is adjustable or if it has a fill-pointer (if it has a fill-pointer and is not adjustable, then you can only set the length within the allocated array-dimension). 2014-12-25T20:03:52Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-12-25T20:04:37Z InvalidCo joined #lisp 2014-12-25T20:06:17Z pjb: mrkkrp: you can use (com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.sequence:replace-subseq "" string 2 3) to make substitutions. If the string given is mutable, then it is modified (and returned) otherwise a new adjustable string with fill pointer is returned with the replaced value. 2014-12-25T20:06:51Z stassats: it's shorter to write a new function than to use this 2014-12-25T20:07:29Z pjb: Sure. 2014-12-25T20:07:32Z mrkkrp: pjb, I didn't say that all strings are mutable, I said that it's possible to append chars to strings 2014-12-25T20:07:42Z pjb: It is not. 2014-12-25T20:08:08Z stassats: mrkkrp: pjb's like that, just to contradict someone 2014-12-25T20:08:13Z pjb: And it's stassats` who said "no" to the question "are cl strings immutable?" asked by sol__. 2014-12-25T20:08:15Z mrkkrp: it string is adjustable vector with fill pointer why not? 2014-12-25T20:08:19Z mrkkrp: *if string 2014-12-25T20:08:26Z stassats: even if it's not relevant or correct 2014-12-25T20:09:02Z pjb: mrkkrp: on the other hand, if you have to remove characters in a loop, perhaps it would be better to collect a list of intervales you want to keep, and then build the new string (or replace if you can adjust the length) wholesale. 2014-12-25T20:09:15Z pjb: stassats: stop it! You keep telling wrong! 2014-12-25T20:09:17Z InvalidCo quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-25T20:09:42Z pjb: stassats: there are CL strings that are immutable so you are forbidden to answer no to that question! 2014-12-25T20:10:08Z stassats: but there are mutable strings 2014-12-25T20:10:08Z pjb: and foremost you are forbidden to retort when you get corrected! 2014-12-25T20:10:16Z pjb: That wasn't the question. 2014-12-25T20:10:37Z stassats: not this bullshit again 2014-12-25T20:10:47Z pjb: shut up! 2014-12-25T20:11:02Z pjb: You can never accept that you are wrong. 2014-12-25T20:11:12Z stassats: are you talking about yourself? 2014-12-25T20:11:39Z stassats: you can open your own channel when you will try to interpret words in the most annoying way 2014-12-25T20:12:01Z pjb: No. For example, I was wrong, it was sol__ who asked about (com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.sequence:replace-subseq "" string 2 3), not mrkkrp. 2014-12-25T20:12:03Z Grue`: the answer to "are cl strings immutable?" is clearly no; i studied logic, i should know 2014-12-25T20:12:11Z raphaelss joined #lisp 2014-12-25T20:12:44Z raphaelss quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-12-25T20:12:46Z stassats: Grue`: i didn't study logic, therefor you didn't study logic as well 2014-12-25T20:13:42Z Grue`: ...but i was backing up your answer 2014-12-25T20:13:50Z pjb: Grue`: you should study English them, to determine that it is ∃x (imply (stringp x) (immutablep x)) that is asked and not ∀x (imply (stringp x) (immutablep x)) 2014-12-25T20:13:56Z Grue`: universal quantifier is implied 2014-12-25T20:13:59Z pjb: Nope. 2014-12-25T20:14:00Z stassats: Grue`: and i was imitating pjb 2014-12-25T20:14:20Z Beetny joined #lisp 2014-12-25T20:18:26Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2014-12-25T20:18:41Z dim: When attempting to test to see whether slot is bound (SLOT-BOUNDP), the slot PGLOADER.PARSER::PATH is missing from the object --- ok then, how do I inquire about the slot then? 2014-12-25T20:18:49Z stassats: clhs slot-exists-p 2014-12-25T20:18:49Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_slt_ex.htm 2014-12-25T20:19:02Z dim: oh, wait, package/symbols 2014-12-25T20:19:22Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-25T20:19:40Z dim: yeah 2014-12-25T20:20:04Z dim: introducing double-evaluation in a code walker ain't fun 2014-12-25T20:21:18Z vinleod joined #lisp 2014-12-25T20:22:01Z dim: the scope of that refactoring is such that it warrant a new name: the christmas break full clean-up 2014-12-25T20:22:32Z dim: I'll now take a break from that break ;-) 2014-12-25T20:22:54Z dim: 17 files changed, 804 insertions(+), 744 deletions(-) --- just the beginning, not halfway through 2014-12-25T20:23:13Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-12-25T20:23:41Z Grue`: isn't refactoring supposed to reduce the line count? 2014-12-25T20:24:09Z dim: well that's when you have a well defined scope 2014-12-25T20:24:35Z dim: I'm also adding features and making the different options supported by the different kind of sources as even as possible 2014-12-25T20:24:48Z milosn joined #lisp 2014-12-25T20:24:51Z dim: it's refactor + unify + clean-up if you will 2014-12-25T20:25:53Z dim: it's all those things you want to do but keep for later because for fixing that specific problem or adding that little feature it's not really necessary to tackle it now, you see 2014-12-25T20:26:06Z pjb: Grue`: not always. 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I do not have that unfortunately, mine is a little more... haphazard. 2014-12-25T21:37:34Z drmeister: But, I have the ability to automatically refactor C++ code. 2014-12-25T21:37:43Z stassats: (funcall (lambda (a y) y) 1 2 3 4) was ((LAMBDA (A Y)) # 2 # #), becomes ((LAMBDA (A Y)) 1 2 3 4) 2014-12-25T21:37:57Z axion: pjb, soggybread, |3b|: thanks for the help. i didn't realize it was such an under-used request. certainly more helpful than than Zhivago asshat 2014-12-25T21:45:54Z zajn joined #lisp 2014-12-25T21:46:20Z oleo is now known as Guest5801 2014-12-25T21:47:39Z pnpuff left #lisp 2014-12-25T21:48:13Z Vijay joined #lisp 2014-12-25T21:48:36Z oleo__ joined #lisp 2014-12-25T21:48:40Z oleo__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-25T21:48:57Z Guest5801 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-25T21:49:17Z Vijay left #lisp 2014-12-25T21:50:35Z oleo joined #lisp 2014-12-25T21:51:12Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2014-12-25T21:52:37Z paul0`` joined #lisp 2014-12-25T21:52:53Z Adlai quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-25T21:53:01Z Adlai` joined #lisp 2014-12-25T21:59:21Z keen__________13 joined #lisp 2014-12-25T21:59:28Z zophy quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-25T21:59:48Z Denommus quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-12-25T22:00:59Z nydel quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-25T22:01:19Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-25T22:01:53Z keen__________12 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-25T22:04:21Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-25T22:04:29Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2014-12-25T22:05:09Z dagnachew quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1) 2014-12-25T22:06:29Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-25T22:13:13Z zajn quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-25T22:13:42Z zajn joined #lisp 2014-12-25T22:17:21Z Quadrescence joined #lisp 2014-12-25T22:20:57Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-12-25T22:21:19Z Ukari joined #lisp 2014-12-25T22:23:57Z dagnachew joined #lisp 2014-12-25T22:26:21Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-25T22:26:24Z JamesNZ: Anyone know why this code isn't compiling? http://www.pasteall.org/55856/lisp 2014-12-25T22:26:43Z JamesNZ: It's supposed to be a solution for https://projecteuler.net/problem=1. 2014-12-25T22:26:57Z ejbs: Skip the outer parens for the do-form 2014-12-25T22:26:58Z stassats: too much parenthesis around if 2014-12-25T22:27:17Z kristof joined #lisp 2014-12-25T22:27:41Z JamesNZ: Ah, thanks :) 2014-12-25T22:27:53Z stassats: or write like a pro: (loop for term from 1 to bound when (or (zerop (mod term 3)) (zerop (mod term 5))) sum term) 2014-12-25T22:28:27Z ejbs: JamesNZ: What compiler is that? 2014-12-25T22:28:39Z JamesNZ: ejbs: SBCL. 2014-12-25T22:29:34Z ejbs: version? How did you compile it? 2014-12-25T22:29:44Z stassats: bah, i need to do some weird password recovery for the new project euler 2014-12-25T22:29:54Z stassats: ejbs: why are you asking? 2014-12-25T22:30:10Z JamesNZ: ejbs: 1.2.4, and I installed from my distros repos. 2014-12-25T22:30:58Z ejbs: stassats: Mostly because I got a pretty different message and I was curious why 2014-12-25T22:31:03Z JamesNZ: stassats: What exactly does that snippet do after the when clause? 2014-12-25T22:31:28Z stassats: JamesNZ: try it 2014-12-25T22:31:36Z JamesNZ: Heh, ok. 2014-12-25T22:32:23Z ejbs: http://paste.lisp.org/ can anyone ban sinclair009? 2014-12-25T22:32:35Z stassats: ejbs: it's from *slime-compilation* 2014-12-25T22:32:37Z stassats: ejbs: nope 2014-12-25T22:32:41Z JamesNZ: stassats: Looks like it returns '0' in every case? 2014-12-25T22:33:18Z JamesNZ: Should I use setf or something to change the value of sum? 2014-12-25T22:33:19Z Bicyclidine: only if bound is <2 2014-12-25T22:33:32Z ejbs: stassats: So what's printed in the REPL is different then? I mean, apparently it is - but why? 2014-12-25T22:33:41Z stassats: 'because' 2014-12-25T22:33:43Z Bicyclidine: <=2 i guess 2014-12-25T22:33:51Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-25T22:33:51Z stassats: it's different because it's different 2014-12-25T22:34:10Z JamesNZ: Bicyclidine: It still gives me 0 with a bound of 10. 2014-12-25T22:34:25Z Bicyclidine: (let ((bound 10)) (loop for term from 1 to bound when (or (zerop (mod term 3)) (zerop (mod term 5))) sum term)) => 33 2014-12-25T22:34:48Z stassats: ok, managed to remember my PE password and look up the answer 2014-12-25T22:35:49Z JamesNZ: Bicyclidine: Hmm, that works in the REPL, but where's `sum` coming from? 2014-12-25T22:36:11Z Xach: sum is part of the syntax of loop 2014-12-25T22:36:11Z Bicyclidine: it's a loop keyword 2014-12-25T22:36:19Z JamesNZ: Oh, I see. 2014-12-25T22:36:32Z Bicyclidine: there isn't even a variable called 'sum' involved. convenient, right 2014-12-25T22:36:45Z JamesNZ: Yeah, that is much cleaner. 2014-12-25T22:37:11Z stassats: and it returns the right answer 2014-12-25T22:37:17Z stassats haven't done PE in a while 2014-12-25T22:37:47Z Kanae joined #lisp 2014-12-25T22:38:06Z towodo quit (Quit: towodo) 2014-12-25T22:41:25Z pjb: - 2014-12-25T22:41:37Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-25T22:43:02Z stassats: solving "why do i have a closure in a register instead of an argument" is more fun than puny math problems 2014-12-25T22:43:44Z JamesNZ: Nice, it works for me as well. Just had to add `(1- bound)` instead of `bound` in the loop. 2014-12-25T22:44:05Z Bicyclidine: can use 'below bound' instead of 'to bound' for that 2014-12-25T22:44:07Z stassats: no, just replace TO with BELOW 2014-12-25T22:44:15Z dagnachew quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1) 2014-12-25T22:44:21Z stassats: damn, pressing shift made me slower 2014-12-25T22:44:49Z JamesNZ: Ah, cool. 2014-12-25T22:44:55Z dagnachew joined #lisp 2014-12-25T22:45:01Z dagnachew quit (Client Quit) 2014-12-25T22:45:35Z dagnachew joined #lisp 2014-12-25T22:46:01Z malbertife joined #lisp 2014-12-25T22:48:04Z Grue`: that problem looks suspiciously like FizzBuzz 2014-12-25T22:48:43Z Grue`: which is weird, since PE definitely existed before FizzBuzz 2014-12-25T22:48:48Z Bicyclidine: nah. you can be much more mathematically clever. 2014-12-25T22:48:52Z stassats browse paste.lisp for some wild movies 2014-12-25T22:49:20Z stassats: Grue`: FizzBuzz is like the most trivial problem you can think of 2014-12-25T22:49:57Z Adlai` is now known as adlai 2014-12-25T22:50:30Z Quadrescence: stassats, watch TRON 2014-12-25T22:50:42Z Quadrescence: stassats, or watch this christmas song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSUFzC6_fp8 2014-12-25T22:50:58Z Shinmera: Quadrescence: I believe he was poking fun at the spam bots. 2014-12-25T22:51:24Z stassats: and that i can't ban them 2014-12-25T22:51:45Z stassats: but they still haven't figured the captcha, which is nice 2014-12-25T22:52:08Z stassats: which is not a captcha at all 2014-12-25T22:52:23Z Quadrescence: Shinmera, I know ;) 2014-12-25T22:53:23Z dim: stassats: http://edward.oconnor.cx/2007/03/fizzbuzz 2014-12-25T22:53:31Z Grue`: fizzbuzz is O(n), but PE#1 is O(1) 2014-12-25T22:53:33Z kcj joined #lisp 2014-12-25T22:55:22Z arpunk quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-25T23:00:23Z pt1 joined #lisp 2014-12-25T23:02:11Z oudeis joined #lisp 2014-12-25T23:08:51Z s00pcan_ joined #lisp 2014-12-25T23:09:12Z optikalmouse joined #lisp 2014-12-25T23:16:11Z malbertife_ joined #lisp 2014-12-25T23:16:11Z malbertife_ quit (Client Quit) 2014-12-25T23:17:12Z ehu joined #lisp 2014-12-25T23:19:47Z Ethan- joined #lisp 2014-12-25T23:20:05Z malbertife quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-25T23:20:12Z ejbs: https://github.com/Dobiasd/articles/blob/master/programming_language_learning_curves.md 2014-12-25T23:22:40Z drmeister: Oh man, it's fun programming with SLIME. Do people know about this? 2014-12-25T23:23:27Z stassats: most don't 2014-12-25T23:23:31Z Shinmera: I've never known any other. I have been spoiled. 2014-12-25T23:23:46Z stassats: and i could be so much better in my imagination 2014-12-25T23:23:53Z ejbs: drmeister: Right? I can't believe people when they say that Python is 'dynamic' (andis not referring to the type system) 2014-12-25T23:24:02Z stassats: i could be too, but 'it' 2014-12-25T23:28:21Z drmeister: We could all be better - but we are what we are. 2014-12-25T23:30:11Z kristof: Did I step into #philosophy? 2014-12-25T23:30:33Z stassats: did you? 2014-12-25T23:30:45Z drmeister: And then I crash to the ground brought low by: (equal #P"/Users/" #P"/Users/") --> NIL 2014-12-25T23:30:47Z stassats: minion: chant 2014-12-25T23:30:47Z minion: MORE ARGS 2014-12-25T23:31:05Z drmeister: There's work to be done. 2014-12-25T23:31:12Z kristof: drmeister: What does equalp yield? 2014-12-25T23:31:25Z Ethan- quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-25T23:31:40Z dim: yeah programming with emacs/slime is very good, I'm told modern IDE for Java brings about the same things on the table too 2014-12-25T23:31:42Z drmeister: Don't get me started on equalp - that's not implemented yet. 2014-12-25T23:32:39Z kristof: drmeister: Work to be done indeed! 2014-12-25T23:33:16Z drmeister: I'm only human. 2014-12-25T23:33:34Z s00pcan_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-12-25T23:34:27Z kristof: drmeister: More impressive than most :) 2014-12-25T23:34:46Z stassats: (defun equalp (x y) (equal x y)) 2014-12-25T23:34:52Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-25T23:34:57Z corni quit (Quit: Ex-Chat) 2014-12-25T23:36:46Z drmeister blushes. 2014-12-25T23:38:11Z stassats: making debugging easy is hard 2014-12-25T23:38:33Z stassats: debuggable, fast, small. pick one 2014-12-25T23:40:09Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。) 2014-12-25T23:40:25Z drmeister: Oh yeah. Toss DWARF in there and it's "making debugging easy is insanely difficult". 2014-12-25T23:41:02Z optikalmouse quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-12-25T23:44:25Z drmeister: This is my C++ implementation of (equal pathname1 pathname2) how does it look? (I've had a glass of Christmas wine and I shouldn't be coding - but what the heck? It's Christmas). 2014-12-25T23:44:28Z drmeister: https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/md2PMd1A 2014-12-25T23:44:48Z stassats: you should be writing it in lisp 2014-12-25T23:45:26Z kristof: drmeister: Missing a space on your second conditional 2014-12-25T23:45:39Z kristof: Not MISRA compliant! Pull request rejected. 2014-12-25T23:46:08Z fe[nl]ix: ?? 2014-12-25T23:46:15Z stassats: too much gratuitous spaces, not STASSATS compliant 2014-12-25T23:48:13Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. 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