2014-12-18T00:00:07Z normanrichards quit 2014-12-18T00:00:19Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T00:00:20Z vaporatorius quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T00:01:05Z manuel__ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-18T00:01:53Z Blkt: kristof: by the way, are you currently using Azul's Zing? 2014-12-18T00:02:53Z JokerDoom quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-18T00:03:56Z kristof: Blkt: I don't use Azul, I just have colleagues that do 2014-12-18T00:04:02Z Blkt: I see 2014-12-18T00:04:12Z wgslayer quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-18T00:04:20Z Blkt: kristof: may I ask you in which context do they use it? 2014-12-18T00:04:35Z malice: Hey guys! Could you please recommend me some nice Common Lisp code to read? I'd like to learn a thing or two, and maybe show it to friends, so both good and clever/interesting code/programs qualify. 2014-12-18T00:04:49Z kristof: akkad: A symbol can be referenced from another package as "package:symbol" only if that symbol has been exported in its package. You can still access it with two colons. 2014-12-18T00:05:18Z kristof: malice: On Lisp and Let Over Lambda are full of interesting macros. 2014-12-18T00:06:05Z kristof: malice: The example chapters of Practical Common Lisp have loads of neat applications, too. Testing frameworks and binary-type classform generation will make macros look indispensable. 2014-12-18T00:07:58Z malice: Oh, and it would be good if it actually contained some general cleverness, not only Lisp(though it's encouraged), because if I want to show it to my friends, they're most likely have lesser mind capacity 2014-12-18T00:08:08Z malice: Because there will be Lisp overhead, as they don't know it. 2014-12-18T00:08:17Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-18T00:08:27Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-18T00:08:48Z attila_lendvai quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-12-18T00:09:18Z Shinmera: I hear ediware is good code to read, but those are all fairly large projects usually, so not something to "show off", really. 2014-12-18T00:09:47Z Blkt: malice: Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming 2014-12-18T00:10:35Z malice: Blkt by? 2014-12-18T00:10:42Z Blkt: Peter Norvig 2014-12-18T00:10:54Z kristof: Blkt: I'll ask them specifically what they do and get back to you. I just know that it's related to some large scale distributed nonsense 2014-12-18T00:10:56Z Blkt: http://norvig.com/paip.html 2014-12-18T00:11:11Z zRecursive joined #lisp 2014-12-18T00:11:15Z Blkt: kristof: ahahah I see, thank you :D 2014-12-18T00:11:16Z malice: Shinmera, yes, I thought of quicklisp, but the problem is that these are large libraries, that are good to read and to learn CL, and also useful for CL programmer(at least I believe so), but if you want to show something to the world, it should be something rather easy to grasp 2014-12-18T00:11:26Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-18T00:11:40Z Shinmera: Right. 2014-12-18T00:12:02Z malice: Okay. I've only read two Lisp books, so I'll see Let Over Lambda, On Lisp and Norvig's books. Thanks guys! 2014-12-18T00:12:14Z Shinmera: I haven't read much project code by others, nor have I written anything particularly interesting and small, so I'm drawing blanks. 2014-12-18T00:13:54Z oudeis_ joined #lisp 2014-12-18T00:13:54Z Shinmera: The only 'small' thing I can think of of mine would be individual modules of my IRC bot framework 2014-12-18T00:13:58Z akkad loves how some things block in some implementations but not in others 2014-12-18T00:14:03Z Shinmera: but idk if those are involved or interesting enough 2014-12-18T00:15:17Z DrCode quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-18T00:15:28Z qlkzy quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-12-18T00:15:30Z kristof: Shinmera: You also have a twitter framework, don't you? 2014-12-18T00:15:35Z Shinmera: Chirp, yes. 2014-12-18T00:15:42Z kristof: Shinmera: That probably has some nifty macros in it. 2014-12-18T00:15:47Z Shinmera: But that's... kind of large to just dive into. 2014-12-18T00:16:01Z kristof: It is, but if you could select your favorite macros, someone would find that interesting, I'm sure 2014-12-18T00:16:02Z ft quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-12-18T00:16:02Z kbtr_ quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-12-18T00:16:07Z oudeis quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-18T00:16:13Z Shinmera: I don't remember if I did anything fancy with macros there.. 2014-12-18T00:16:28Z kristof: I would assume you did in the request generation 2014-12-18T00:16:29Z Shinmera: I only remember that I'm not particularly proud of what I've written and would like to refactor some day. 2014-12-18T00:16:32Z sol__ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-18T00:16:35Z kristof: ah, haha 2014-12-18T00:16:52Z ft joined #lisp 2014-12-18T00:17:02Z kbtr joined #lisp 2014-12-18T00:17:07Z DrCode joined #lisp 2014-12-18T00:17:14Z Shinmera: The Tumblr client has more interesting things, if you want to look at an API client 2014-12-18T00:17:15Z qlkzy joined #lisp 2014-12-18T00:17:23Z Shinmera: ( https://github.com/Shinmera/humbler ) 2014-12-18T00:17:37Z sol__ joined #lisp 2014-12-18T00:17:39Z eudoxia: https://github.com/fukamachi/ is generally well structured code, and the smaller projects should be fairly easy to get into 2014-12-18T00:17:44Z eudoxia: ie cl-project, lesque 2014-12-18T00:18:29Z Shinmera: You could look at Qtools! 2014-12-18T00:18:36Z Shinmera: Haha ha... aaah I'll see myself out 2014-12-18T00:19:04Z Shinmera: ((qtools has some horrid internals hacks)) 2014-12-18T00:19:30Z Shinmera: malice: I hope you can give your colleagues a good show! 2014-12-18T00:19:37Z Shinmera is going to bed 2014-12-18T00:19:44Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。) 2014-12-18T00:24:23Z hazz quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-18T00:24:52Z _zxq9_ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2014-12-18T00:26:34Z Vutral joined #lisp 2014-12-18T00:28:01Z leo2007 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T00:29:12Z nell quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1-dev) 2014-12-18T00:30:18Z corni quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-18T00:30:39Z thawes quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-18T00:30:50Z BoyNton joined #lisp 2014-12-18T00:31:34Z yenda joined #lisp 2014-12-18T00:32:48Z Denommus quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) 2014-12-18T00:32:52Z arpunk joined #lisp 2014-12-18T00:34:00Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-18T00:34:19Z octophore_ joined #lisp 2014-12-18T00:34:19Z octophore_ quit (Excess Flood) 2014-12-18T00:34:45Z octophore_ joined #lisp 2014-12-18T00:35:07Z arpunk quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T00:37:22Z octophore-- joined #lisp 2014-12-18T00:37:23Z octophore-- quit (Excess Flood) 2014-12-18T00:37:52Z octophore-- joined #lisp 2014-12-18T00:38:14Z octophore quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-18T00:38:59Z octophore-- quit (Client Quit) 2014-12-18T00:39:26Z octophore_ quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-18T00:41:07Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-18T00:43:09Z chu quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-12-18T00:47:59Z towodo joined #lisp 2014-12-18T00:52:55Z RedEight quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-12-18T00:53:38Z dandersen is now known as dkcl 2014-12-18T00:53:49Z protist joined #lisp 2014-12-18T00:54:02Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-18T00:57:35Z CrazyM4n quit (Quit: restarting) 2014-12-18T01:00:40Z CrazyM4n joined #lisp 2014-12-18T01:00:42Z ASau quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T01:00:49Z Vutral joined #lisp 2014-12-18T01:01:08Z Bicyclidine quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-12-18T01:01:54Z drdanmaku quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-12-18T01:02:21Z ASau joined #lisp 2014-12-18T01:03:12Z tkhoa2711 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T01:06:28Z s00pcan quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-12-18T01:09:44Z s00pcan joined #lisp 2014-12-18T01:11:41Z cwej joined #lisp 2014-12-18T01:17:47Z ghard joined #lisp 2014-12-18T01:17:52Z kalzz quit (Quit: exit) 2014-12-18T01:18:44Z ghard quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T01:19:20Z yenda quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-18T01:19:25Z ghard joined #lisp 2014-12-18T01:19:27Z yenda joined #lisp 2014-12-18T01:21:07Z julianb joined #lisp 2014-12-18T01:22:49Z sbryant quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-18T01:24:21Z nightshade427 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-18T01:27:50Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-12-18T01:28:17Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-12-18T01:28:30Z kalzz joined #lisp 2014-12-18T01:29:13Z ghard quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-12-18T01:36:18Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-12-18T01:38:34Z Kanae quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-18T01:43:11Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-12-18T01:43:14Z nightshade427 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T01:44:33Z yonkie_ quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-12-18T01:45:05Z sbryant joined #lisp 2014-12-18T01:45:22Z nikki93 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T01:45:32Z ASau` joined #lisp 2014-12-18T01:47:51Z tkhoa2711 quit (Quit: tkhoa2711) 2014-12-18T01:48:37Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-18T01:51:04Z ASau` is now known as ASau 2014-12-18T01:54:09Z tkhoa2711 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T01:56:15Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-18T01:56:56Z urandom__ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2014-12-18T01:59:31Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T01:59:46Z leo2007 quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.4.1) 2014-12-18T02:01:31Z BoyNton quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-12-18T02:01:59Z meiji11 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T02:02:36Z drdanmaku joined #lisp 2014-12-18T02:04:24Z meiji11 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T02:10:27Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-12-18T02:10:37Z innertracks quit (Client Quit) 2014-12-18T02:14:09Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-12-18T02:14:27Z innertracks quit (Client Quit) 2014-12-18T02:20:08Z yenda` joined #lisp 2014-12-18T02:22:05Z yenda quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-12-18T02:24:49Z echo-area joined #lisp 2014-12-18T02:29:16Z ASau quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T02:29:45Z yenda joined #lisp 2014-12-18T02:31:01Z hiyosi quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2014-12-18T02:31:05Z echo-area quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T02:31:47Z echo-area joined #lisp 2014-12-18T02:32:10Z ASau joined #lisp 2014-12-18T02:33:20Z rainapad joined #lisp 2014-12-18T02:33:44Z yenda`` joined #lisp 2014-12-18T02:35:35Z yenda` quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-18T02:38:50Z tkhoa2711 quit (Quit: tkhoa2711) 2014-12-18T02:40:49Z tkhoa2711 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T02:41:07Z malice quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-12-18T02:42:15Z rainapad quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1) 2014-12-18T02:43:31Z yonkie joined #lisp 2014-12-18T02:44:18Z yenda` joined #lisp 2014-12-18T02:45:00Z yenda` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T02:45:00Z yenda`` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T02:45:00Z yenda quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T02:45:39Z ASau quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-18T02:45:42Z yenda joined #lisp 2014-12-18T02:48:10Z jlongster joined #lisp 2014-12-18T02:48:41Z yenda` joined #lisp 2014-12-18T02:48:44Z Joreji quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-18T02:49:50Z ASau joined #lisp 2014-12-18T02:50:08Z echo-are` joined #lisp 2014-12-18T02:50:55Z theseb___ joined #lisp 2014-12-18T02:51:09Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-12-18T02:51:49Z yenda quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-12-18T02:52:01Z kristof quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-12-18T02:52:22Z manuel___ quit (Quit: manuel___) 2014-12-18T02:52:34Z theseb___: Whether you have a full blown DSL or a few CL customizations.....how load them before you run your CL code? 2014-12-18T02:52:58Z theseb___: I'm guessing CL probably has the equivalent of Java's import 2014-12-18T02:53:29Z theseb___: even better would be if there was a way to transparently import the customizations to give even more of an illusion of a new (DSL) language if possible 2014-12-18T02:53:34Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-12-18T02:53:53Z echo-area quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-18T02:54:28Z zeitue joined #lisp 2014-12-18T02:58:09Z zRecursive quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T02:58:29Z zRecursive joined #lisp 2014-12-18T02:58:59Z meiji11 quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-12-18T03:00:02Z Hexstream: minion: Tell theseb___ about ASDF. 2014-12-18T03:00:02Z minion: ASDF: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/ASDF 2014-12-18T03:00:10Z towodo quit (Quit: towodo) 2014-12-18T03:00:27Z theseb___: Hexstream: package manager! 2014-12-18T03:01:18Z Hexstream: ASDF isn't a "package manager", that would be Quicklisp. 2014-12-18T03:01:39Z Hexstream: ASDF lets you declare dependencies between "systems" for the purpose of loading them in an appropriate order. 2014-12-18T03:02:39Z dkcl quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-12-18T03:03:07Z theseb___: Hexstream: ah 2014-12-18T03:03:09Z Hexstream: As well as the dependencies between files needed to load a system, and other stuff... 2014-12-18T03:03:21Z dandersen joined #lisp 2014-12-18T03:03:43Z theseb___: Hexstream: thanks! is there a way to automagically load a bunch of stuff to give the illusion that CL has turned into your little DSL? 2014-12-18T03:04:04Z dandersen is now known as dkcl 2014-12-18T03:04:12Z Hexstream: Quicklisp can automagically load many many things. 2014-12-18T03:04:12Z theseb___: Hexstream: maybe asdf can be set up to do its magic for all programs ....dunno 2014-12-18T03:04:24Z theseb___: Hexstream: ok...I'll look into Quicklisp 2014-12-18T03:12:55Z theseb___ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-12-18T03:17:44Z Bike: if you want stuff loaded before your repl shows up, just put some asdf or quicklisp loads in the init file. 2014-12-18T03:20:37Z Intensity quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-18T03:21:38Z kpreid joined #lisp 2014-12-18T03:21:39Z sbryant quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-18T03:22:02Z nightshade427 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-18T03:26:13Z sbryant joined #lisp 2014-12-18T03:30:46Z nightshade427 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T03:32:42Z t4intz joined #lisp 2014-12-18T03:34:01Z atgreen joined #lisp 2014-12-18T03:34:03Z tkhoa2711 quit (Quit: tkhoa2711) 2014-12-18T03:37:39Z adlai quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-18T03:46:06Z kapil__ joined #lisp 2014-12-18T03:46:09Z ASau` joined #lisp 2014-12-18T03:46:17Z ASau quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-18T03:46:52Z beach joined #lisp 2014-12-18T03:47:04Z beach: Good morning everyone! 2014-12-18T03:47:20Z matko quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-18T03:50:41Z s00pcan quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T03:51:09Z ASau` is now known as ASau 2014-12-18T03:52:12Z kcj joined #lisp 2014-12-18T03:52:51Z kristof joined #lisp 2014-12-18T03:53:17Z atgreen quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T03:53:24Z atgreen` joined #lisp 2014-12-18T03:54:27Z t4intz quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-18T03:54:59Z beach: drmeister: Around? 2014-12-18T03:55:24Z |3b|: Xach: i guess 3 clause BSD to match the C lib 2014-12-18T03:59:34Z robot-beethoven joined #lisp 2014-12-18T04:10:36Z yenda` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-18T04:10:48Z yenda joined #lisp 2014-12-18T04:11:11Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...) 2014-12-18T04:11:34Z moei joined #lisp 2014-12-18T04:12:34Z kyl_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-12-18T04:16:19Z harish joined #lisp 2014-12-18T04:17:01Z a20141212 quit (Quit: Page closed) 2014-12-18T04:17:05Z dagnachew quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1) 2014-12-18T04:17:53Z j0ni quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-12-18T04:28:31Z loke: new QL 2014-12-18T04:28:32Z loke: ! 2014-12-18T04:29:48Z MrWoohoo quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]) 2014-12-18T04:30:28Z jlongster joined #lisp 2014-12-18T04:34:08Z kyl_ joined #lisp 2014-12-18T04:34:58Z Kanae joined #lisp 2014-12-18T04:45:27Z leo2007 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T04:48:14Z t4intz joined #lisp 2014-12-18T04:52:45Z bb010g joined #lisp 2014-12-18T04:53:00Z j0ni joined #lisp 2014-12-18T04:55:03Z Kanae- joined #lisp 2014-12-18T04:55:27Z Kanae- quit (Client Quit) 2014-12-18T04:59:02Z kushal joined #lisp 2014-12-18T05:01:41Z wgslayer joined #lisp 2014-12-18T05:06:09Z tkhoa2711 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T05:11:57Z Longlius joined #lisp 2014-12-18T05:14:35Z frkout joined #lisp 2014-12-18T05:15:43Z frkout quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T05:15:45Z yenda quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-18T05:15:46Z Hexstream left #lisp 2014-12-18T05:15:49Z Denommus joined #lisp 2014-12-18T05:16:09Z frkout joined #lisp 2014-12-18T05:16:12Z nisstyre quit (Changing host) 2014-12-18T05:16:12Z nisstyre joined #lisp 2014-12-18T05:17:31Z Ethan- quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-12-18T05:21:52Z Mandus quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-18T05:22:12Z julianb quit (Quit: Goodbye) 2014-12-18T05:22:57Z CrazyM4n quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-12-18T05:24:26Z beach: Wow! My key C-M-f seems broken in the *slime-repl ...* buffer. Has anyone seen this before? 2014-12-18T05:24:41Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-18T05:25:03Z beach: It might be the case that it happens only inside a presentation, resulting from the evaluation of a form. 2014-12-18T05:25:45Z beach: Here is what I did: (macroexpand-1 '(loop for (a b) across (f x))) 2014-12-18T05:26:35Z beach: Then, when I put Emacs point before (SB-LOOP::LOOP-BODY and do C-M-f, point does not end up in the right place. 2014-12-18T05:28:14Z beach: But if I copy the entire output from the macro expansion to a .lisp buffer and do the same thing, it works correctly. 2014-12-18T05:33:50Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2014-12-18T05:34:45Z H4ns: does format have a way to print -1 as -00001? ~D apparently only gives 0000-1 2014-12-18T05:35:53Z beach: That looks wrong. 2014-12-18T05:36:10Z beach: Maybe not though. 2014-12-18T05:36:31Z H4ns: it is true to the spec, although i fail to see how it would ever be useful 2014-12-18T05:36:55Z beach: Well, it is useful if the filler is something other than 0, say #. 2014-12-18T05:37:06Z H4ns: :) 2014-12-18T05:37:43Z beach: I guess you'll have to take the absolute value and do the minus sign "manually". 2014-12-18T05:38:14Z H4ns: yeah, i guessed so as well, thank you for the confirmation 2014-12-18T05:40:48Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-18T05:41:40Z Denommus quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-18T05:43:29Z quazimodo quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-12-18T05:43:37Z t4intz quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-18T05:43:45Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2014-12-18T05:45:09Z akkad: does Franz offer a enterprise edition to evaluate? 2014-12-18T05:46:53Z Denommus joined #lisp 2014-12-18T05:46:53Z Denommus quit (Changing host) 2014-12-18T05:46:53Z Denommus joined #lisp 2014-12-18T05:48:32Z meiji11 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T05:48:47Z H4ns: yes, you'll have to get in touch with them for a temporary evaluation license 2014-12-18T05:49:20Z leo2007 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-18T05:51:09Z Grue` quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-18T05:51:24Z Grue` joined #lisp 2014-12-18T05:52:40Z ggole joined #lisp 2014-12-18T05:56:17Z Denommus quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-18T05:56:37Z meiji11 quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-12-18T05:56:42Z psy_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T05:57:00Z malbertife joined #lisp 2014-12-18T05:57:43Z malbertife quit (Client Quit) 2014-12-18T06:00:29Z jusss joined #lisp 2014-12-18T06:01:23Z Denommus joined #lisp 2014-12-18T06:04:29Z oleo quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2014-12-18T06:05:01Z jpanest quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-12-18T06:06:06Z Denommus quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-18T06:06:20Z t4intz joined #lisp 2014-12-18T06:08:15Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-12-18T06:10:53Z Denommus joined #lisp 2014-12-18T06:12:04Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-18T06:13:16Z jpanest joined #lisp 2014-12-18T06:15:27Z beach` joined #lisp 2014-12-18T06:15:33Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-12-18T06:16:57Z beach quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-18T06:18:09Z beach` is now known as beach 2014-12-18T06:20:23Z beach: I confirm that C-M-f is broken only inside a presentation. If I turn the presentation into ordinary text (for instance by erasing the last parenthesis), then C-M-f works as usual. 2014-12-18T06:20:51Z Denommus quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-12-18T06:22:01Z bgs100 quit (Quit: bgs100) 2014-12-18T06:24:29Z beach: OK, here is a simple experiment you can do: In the *slime-repl ...* buffer, type '(>=) to the prompt. A presentation containing (>=) is generated. Put the point before the presentation, and then type C-M-f. 2014-12-18T06:25:45Z beach: In my Emacs+SLIME, point is then located between > and = rather than after ). 2014-12-18T06:26:50Z beach: Does anyone else see the same problem? 2014-12-18T06:29:44Z beach: Hmm, I wonder whether it has to do with how output generated by print-unreadable-object is generated. 2014-12-18T06:29:52Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-18T06:29:55Z beach: *is parsed. 2014-12-18T06:30:15Z hitecnologys quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-18T06:30:17Z frkout_ joined #lisp 2014-12-18T06:30:50Z t4intz quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T06:30:51Z hitecnologys joined #lisp 2014-12-18T06:31:04Z t4intz joined #lisp 2014-12-18T06:32:26Z Vutral joined #lisp 2014-12-18T06:33:14Z frkout quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-18T06:35:33Z joneshf-laptop joined #lisp 2014-12-18T06:36:01Z theotherstupidgu joined #lisp 2014-12-18T06:36:16Z |3b|: beach: yeah, seems broken here too... also highlights the parens oddly 2014-12-18T06:36:50Z beach: So it seems that ( and < are treated the same, as are ) and >. 2014-12-18T06:36:58Z beach: Probably for the purpose of unreadable objects. 2014-12-18T06:37:05Z beach: Very inconvenient. 2014-12-18T06:37:27Z akkad: Allegro runtime quotes are way outside of budget 2014-12-18T06:40:14Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-12-18T06:40:52Z beach: akkad: "You've reached freenode, an IRC network providing discussion facilities for the Free and Open Source Software communities, not-for-profit organizations, and related communities." 2014-12-18T06:42:03Z H4ns: "related communities" 2014-12-18T06:42:04Z H4ns: :) 2014-12-18T06:42:40Z beach: I suspect that Franz would not fall into that category. 2014-12-18T06:43:24Z akkad: thank for presenting yourself to erc /ignore function :P 2014-12-18T06:43:34Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-18T06:44:11Z akkad: so where is the non-commercial CLHS for reference here? :P 2014-12-18T06:46:18Z Bike: you really would do way better to ask about it on their mailing lists or their support team or any of the other million resources specifically for lw 2014-12-18T06:46:39Z akkad: not lw 2014-12-18T06:47:07Z akkad: Bike, but agreed, thanks. 2014-12-18T06:50:47Z tkhoa2711 quit (Quit: tkhoa2711) 2014-12-18T06:51:51Z sdemarre joined #lisp 2014-12-18T06:53:20Z tesuji joined #lisp 2014-12-18T06:53:41Z Ober: akkad I warned you about that. 2014-12-18T06:54:02Z tkhoa2711 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T06:54:42Z Ober: akkad: if you have Lisp questions, this isn't the place 2014-12-18T06:54:59Z akkad: Ober: thanks.. :( 2014-12-18T06:55:01Z akkad left #lisp 2014-12-18T06:55:38Z manuel___ joined #lisp 2014-12-18T06:57:56Z beach thinks he must have ended up in the wrong place. 2014-12-18T06:58:01Z beach left #lisp 2014-12-18T07:02:47Z Ober: don't ask a question, instead state a contrary fact, and await correction 2014-12-18T07:03:12Z moei quit (Quit: Leaving...) 2014-12-18T07:05:24Z t4intz quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T07:05:38Z t4intz joined #lisp 2014-12-18T07:06:43Z Natch quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-12-18T07:08:09Z H4ns: was there a lisp question, too? i've only seen commercial inquiries. 2014-12-18T07:08:37Z Natch joined #lisp 2014-12-18T07:08:39Z hekmek joined #lisp 2014-12-18T07:10:22Z schaueho joined #lisp 2014-12-18T07:12:26Z Denommus joined #lisp 2014-12-18T07:13:00Z cwej quit (Quit: Page closed) 2014-12-18T07:13:34Z Ober: oh he was in another channel complaining about hunchentoot performance, and I pointed out that LW was the native platform it was developed on and should try that 2014-12-18T07:14:35Z H4ns: hunchentoot's primary platform has been sbcl for a number of years. 2014-12-18T07:15:29Z loke: I'm trying to build a CFFI wrapper using the groveller around a struct that contains a union? 2014-12-18T07:15:36Z Ober: It currently works "natively" with LispWorks (which is the main development and testing platform), and additionally on all Lisps which are supported by the compatibility layers usocket and Bordeaux Threads. 2014-12-18T07:15:38Z loke: How do one do that? 2014-12-18T07:15:53Z Ober: as per wietz.de/hunchentoot 2014-12-18T07:15:56Z H4ns: Ober: thank you for pointing at a documentation bug 2014-12-18T07:15:57Z jusss quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-18T07:16:08Z sdemarre quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-18T07:16:58Z Ober: yeah Weitz is not a legit source 2014-12-18T07:17:13Z H4ns: Ober: i am the maintainer of hunchentoot. 2014-12-18T07:17:28Z kami joined #lisp 2014-12-18T07:17:32Z Ober: obviously 2014-12-18T07:17:49Z Ober: H4ns I have you on gittip remember? :P 2014-12-18T07:17:57Z Harag joined #lisp 2014-12-18T07:18:05Z H4ns: Ober: you can't pay me for remembering you, sorry. 2014-12-18T07:18:33Z Ober: :D 2014-12-18T07:18:50Z loke: I hope hunchentoot doesn't have massive performance problems. I'm building something that needs to be fast on top of it 2014-12-18T07:19:08Z loke: so far no problems, but I haven't really pushed it too far yet 2014-12-18T07:19:10Z H4ns: loke: hunchentoot does have significant performance issues due to its use of gray streams. 2014-12-18T07:19:24Z loke: define "significant"? 2014-12-18T07:19:49Z Ober: Yeah Hans Huebner 2014-12-18T07:20:01Z Ober: loke who knows. 2014-12-18T07:20:04Z H4ns: loke: you'll see that it creates noticable overhead due to the streams processing. 2014-12-18T07:20:19Z mrSpec joined #lisp 2014-12-18T07:20:22Z loke: H4ns: At approximately how many connections do you start to see that? 2014-12-18T07:21:05Z p_l: there's also considerable overhead from dealing with characters in portable way 2014-12-18T07:21:10Z H4ns: loke: it is not possible to quantify that - the number of connections that it can handle is also limited by the number of threads that you can schedule efficiently. 2014-12-18T07:21:26Z Ober: is it web scale? 2014-12-18T07:21:33Z Ober: 2014-12-18T07:21:44Z Shinmera joined #lisp 2014-12-18T07:21:47Z p_l: someone here did a local fork of hunchentoot for ad serving 2014-12-18T07:21:47Z loke: Ober: supposed to be "web scale" yes 2014-12-18T07:21:48Z H4ns: loke: i'd say that you're good up to a low few hundreds requests per second, generally speaking. 2014-12-18T07:22:17Z H4ns: a single program cannot be "web scale". "web scale" is only applicable to systems. 2014-12-18T07:22:49Z p_l: loke: remember to punt any static resources to nginx or similar 2014-12-18T07:22:50Z loke: the application is built to be able to run with an arbitrary number of parallel web servers though 2014-12-18T07:22:59Z loke: p_l: yeah, already doing that 2014-12-18T07:23:10Z Ober: regardless sbcl did better than lw for him, and so it's not a commercial issue anymore I hope 2014-12-18T07:23:43Z p_l: loke: i strongly suspecg you're going to beat PHP for anything serious 2014-12-18T07:23:52Z H4ns: i've done all my high-load servers with a caching proxy in front of hunchentoot, varnish recently. that way, the performance of hunchentoot is much less of an issue. 2014-12-18T07:23:58Z loke: p_l: yeah, I already do :-) 2014-12-18T07:24:17Z Ober: H4ns do you tend to host directly? or proxied behind nginx? 2014-12-18T07:24:37Z H4ns: the number of individual, dynamic requests that a single hunchentoot can handle is limited, though. 2014-12-18T07:24:53Z Ober: Ok so connection offloading is realistic 2014-12-18T07:25:33Z p_l: a bit of good architecture (v.specific to app type) can go a long, long way 2014-12-18T07:26:03Z loke: Speaking of performance... I write a small microbenchmark (a loop that added some numbers) and ran it without default optimisation level from the SBCL REPL, execution time was abuot 12 seconds. I then ran that code through Parenscript and ran it in cl-js, execution time was about 10.5 sectonds. I also ran the generated javascript in Chrome: 12 seconds. Finally I ran it nately with optimisations: 7 seconds. 2014-12-18T07:26:07Z Ober: very true. "everything's an api" makes things interesting 2014-12-18T07:26:11Z tkhoa2711 quit (Quit: tkhoa2711) 2014-12-18T07:26:19Z loke: I know, cmpletely pointless test. But I just share it with you for fun 2014-12-18T07:26:37Z Ober: loke try lparallel-bench:execute 100 2014-12-18T07:26:46Z munksgaard joined #lisp 2014-12-18T07:27:04Z p_l: loke: then try with types specified xD 2014-12-18T07:27:43Z p_l: SBCL can help you get insane optimizations 2014-12-18T07:27:43Z loke: p_l: That's what I meant by "enable optimisation". sorry 2014-12-18T07:28:07Z loke: Well, the only interesting this here is that cl-js is the same performance as Chrome (whcih is supposed to be the most high-performance js implementation), while something as naïve as cl-js can achieve the same performance on the same JS code. 2014-12-18T07:29:13Z Shinmera: loke: If Hunchentoot ever becomes an actual problem you might want to take a look at Toot. 2014-12-18T07:29:19Z Shinmera: Err, *Woo 2014-12-18T07:29:27Z Shinmera has not had his coffee yet, apologies 2014-12-18T07:29:53Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight) 2014-12-18T07:29:55Z loke: Shinmera: Yes, we'll see. Currently the question is whether we should even offer this tool as an external service or offer it as a self-hosted solution (it's a collaboration tool for companies) 2014-12-18T07:30:16Z Shinmera: Ah, alright. 2014-12-18T07:30:18Z loke: There are plenty of websites doing it already, but very few offer self-hosted soltuions which is what banks want. 2014-12-18T07:31:01Z loke: That means the web-version will only be a demo anyway, which means no need to be overly concerned with performance in that case. I'm still trying to design it to be able to handle "web scale" though 2014-12-18T07:31:37Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-12-18T07:31:39Z H4ns: loke: nothing beats testing the final system with actual load 2014-12-18T07:31:42Z Shinmera: Imo the best way to go would be to write a tiny layer ontop of HT so that you can switch it out should you ever run into issues. 2014-12-18T07:31:45Z tkhoa2711 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T07:32:06Z H4ns: loke: in my experience, the performance problems are rarely where one would look for during development. 2014-12-18T07:32:09Z loke: Anywhoooo… Anyone have any idea about how to deal with embedded unions when using the cffi groveler? 2014-12-18T07:32:28Z loke: H4ns: Right. So I'll just do the best I can, and deal with the proble as and when they appear. 2014-12-18T07:32:49Z loke: It's just that I'm of course more worried about things I'm in no control over 2014-12-18T07:32:49Z H4ns: loke: use a tool like tsung to test your complete setup. 2014-12-18T07:32:52Z Shinmera: H4ns: No reason not to at least think a bit about it in advance / consider options or existing solutions 2014-12-18T07:32:56Z zRecursive left #lisp 2014-12-18T07:32:58Z mishoo_ joined #lisp 2014-12-18T07:33:05Z H4ns: Shinmera: we call that "premature optimization" 2014-12-18T07:33:20Z Shinmera: I'd call it that if you wrote actual code 2014-12-18T07:33:25Z Shinmera: discussing it with people is something else. 2014-12-18T07:36:52Z nell joined #lisp 2014-12-18T07:39:13Z pjb: j_king: if you want a language that has standardized multithreading, try Ada. IIRC, it still gets the same complains, mostly because since standardization, parallelism has become multicore multithreading, and now you'd also want thousand-multicore on GPUs multithreading. Are we still even speaking of the same thing? (That said, there was already such processors at the time, like the Connection Machine and its *lisp). 2014-12-18T07:39:41Z pjb: j_king: and what about standardizing that with quantum computing? 2014-12-18T07:40:01Z pjb: j_king: what I'm saying: it's too EARLY to standardize that! 2014-12-18T07:43:13Z theos quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-18T07:43:24Z pjb: Shinmera: (defpackage "*PACKAGE-VAR*" (:use)) *package-var*::foo ; I don't see the problem here. 2014-12-18T07:43:47Z theos joined #lisp 2014-12-18T07:43:52Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-18T07:43:56Z Shinmera: pjb: That wouldn't be a local nickname though 2014-12-18T07:44:36Z pjb: I don't see how that poses a problem to parse the spec. 2014-12-18T07:44:46Z Beetny joined #lisp 2014-12-18T07:45:09Z Shinmera: I'm not sure what you mean? 2014-12-18T07:46:09Z pjb: Ok, I didn't sort out the threads of discussions correct. Sorry. 2014-12-18T07:46:19Z Shinmera: Ah, no problem. 2014-12-18T07:48:57Z pjb: That said, that doesn't sound like a good idea, to mix variable reference and read-time syntax. Why not (if (zerop (random 2)) (find-package "VERSION1") (find-package "VERSION2"))::foo ? there's already: #.(intern "FOO" (if (zerop (random 2)) (find-package "VERSION1") (find-package "VERSION2"))) or #.(intern "FOO" *package-var*) 2014-12-18T07:49:17Z manuel___ quit (Quit: manuel___) 2014-12-18T07:50:06Z Shinmera: Right, yes. I wasn't really thinking about the issues of read-time vs. run-time reference. 2014-12-18T07:50:16Z pt1 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T07:54:25Z nikki93 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T08:03:44Z egp_ left #lisp 2014-12-18T08:06:21Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp 2014-12-18T08:09:29Z nell quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-18T08:12:54Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-18T08:15:20Z edgar-rft joined #lisp 2014-12-18T08:15:50Z Mandus joined #lisp 2014-12-18T08:17:12Z hekmek quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2014-12-18T08:18:17Z nostoi joined #lisp 2014-12-18T08:19:41Z kristof quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-18T08:20:17Z jpanest quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-18T08:23:50Z nikki93 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-18T08:24:10Z cpc26__ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-18T08:24:10Z nikki93 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T08:24:36Z cpc26 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T08:25:20Z psy_ joined #lisp 2014-12-18T08:27:18Z jusss joined #lisp 2014-12-18T08:27:57Z nisstyre quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-18T08:29:23Z fantazo joined #lisp 2014-12-18T08:29:24Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2014-12-18T08:31:18Z manuel___ joined #lisp 2014-12-18T08:31:32Z pt1 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-18T08:32:29Z arenz joined #lisp 2014-12-18T08:32:29Z tkhoa2711 quit (Quit: tkhoa2711) 2014-12-18T08:36:32Z drichard` quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-18T08:36:46Z suller joined #lisp 2014-12-18T08:37:07Z gabriel-artigue joined #lisp 2014-12-18T08:37:23Z suller left #lisp 2014-12-18T08:39:49Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T08:43:40Z keen___________4 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T08:44:32Z keen___________3 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-18T08:45:57Z gabriel-artigue: The telehack telnet service has, among other things, an online Dartmouth BASIC interpreter. Does a Lisp REPL exist anywhere on telnet? Or, how hard can building one be? 2014-12-18T08:51:26Z munksgaard quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-18T08:52:27Z hardenedapple joined #lisp 2014-12-18T08:52:35Z jumblerg joined #lisp 2014-12-18T08:53:29Z nikki93 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-18T08:53:41Z nikki93 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T08:56:48Z nisstyre joined #lisp 2014-12-18T08:57:13Z scymtym_ joined #lisp 2014-12-18T08:57:25Z impulse quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-12-18T09:00:45Z impulse joined #lisp 2014-12-18T09:01:34Z leo2007 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T09:01:46Z jpanest joined #lisp 2014-12-18T09:02:45Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2014-12-18T09:04:17Z impulse- joined #lisp 2014-12-18T09:06:27Z yenda joined #lisp 2014-12-18T09:06:53Z frkout_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T09:07:23Z scymtym_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T09:07:40Z echo-are` is now known as echo-area 2014-12-18T09:07:51Z redeemed joined #lisp 2014-12-18T09:09:07Z impulse- quit (Client Quit) 2014-12-18T09:09:53Z przl joined #lisp 2014-12-18T09:10:03Z enfors joined #lisp 2014-12-18T09:10:30Z frkout joined #lisp 2014-12-18T09:10:39Z H4ns: gabriel-artigue: it depends on what exactly you mean by "lisp repl" 2014-12-18T09:11:38Z H4ns: gabriel-artigue: it is easy to create some toy lisp that can be exposed on a telnet server safely. if you mean "common lisp", then it is harder and practically will require a virtual machine to be spun up to run each repl session. 2014-12-18T09:12:05Z H4ns: gabriel-artigue: not a big deal nowadays. if you're really into that. but what would be the point, after all? 2014-12-18T09:13:14Z gabriel-artigue: what's the point in being a lisp programmer after all? ;) 2014-12-18T09:13:38Z gabriel-artigue: by "lisp repl" I mean the only lisp repl I know, Common Lisp's 2014-12-18T09:14:27Z H4ns: gabriel-artigue: then, a system-level approach is the only safe way. 2014-12-18T09:14:30Z gabriel-artigue: I've seen some http environments to program, which included also Common Lisp; never seen one on telnet though 2014-12-18T09:14:35Z Shinmera: In that case you will need a full VM environment for each REPL as hans mentioned, otherwise anyone could go berserk on your servers. And even if you do make a full VM you need to carefully govern it so that it doesn't bog down your servers, etc. 2014-12-18T09:15:03Z Shinmera: So I doubt someone has put this up for the mere reason that it's a lot of effort to make not dangerous, without much reward for doing so 2014-12-18T09:15:05Z H4ns: gabriel-artigue: i don't see how a "telnet repl" is connected to "being a lisp programmer" at all. 2014-12-18T09:15:34Z gabriel-artigue: it's ok than you don't see that, H4ns 2014-12-18T09:15:41Z gabriel-artigue: *that 2014-12-18T09:16:22Z gabriel-artigue: good observations, Shinmera, thanks 2014-12-18T09:16:59Z Shinmera: If you want a REPL without installing a system, you can take a look at JSCL https://github.com/davazp/jscl 2014-12-18T09:17:02Z wgslayer quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-12-18T09:17:16Z gabriel-artigue: thanks! 2014-12-18T09:17:18Z Shinmera: which isn't complete yet, but should be usable for toy things. 2014-12-18T09:17:42Z gabriel-artigue: I've seen some web-based programming environments, even for Common Lisp 2014-12-18T09:18:05Z nikki93 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-18T09:18:13Z gabriel-artigue: I was wondering if someone did for Lisp what others did for Dartmouth on telnet 2014-12-18T09:18:33Z nikki93 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T09:18:35Z kcj quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-18T09:19:18Z |3b| thought one of the commercial lisp vendors had a telnet repl for a while, but not very recently 2014-12-18T09:20:31Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2014-12-18T09:20:45Z nikki93 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-18T09:21:05Z nikki93 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T09:22:00Z H4ns: basically, it is too much effort for too little gain. practically no valuable part of the lisp development experience can be conveyed on a web or telnet based repl. 2014-12-18T09:22:53Z gabriel-artigue: correct, H4ns; you say that because you apply an efficiency standpoint 2014-12-18T09:23:27Z H4ns: gabriel-artigue: you don't know why i say what, so please refrain from that kind of speculation. 2014-12-18T09:23:28Z gabriel-artigue: some people build tiny ships inside bottles; figuratively some people do that on computers: who are we to question their motivation 2014-12-18T09:23:42Z gabriel-artigue: correct: I don't know that 2014-12-18T09:23:53Z gabriel-artigue: however, I will go on and speculate anyway 2014-12-18T09:24:02Z H4ns: gabriel-artigue: if you want to do a telnet repl, go ahead. you've got our advice how you could do it. 2014-12-18T09:24:21Z Poenikatu left #lisp 2014-12-18T09:24:21Z gabriel-artigue: thanks, H4ns 2014-12-18T09:24:33Z gabriel_laddel joined #lisp 2014-12-18T09:24:44Z gabriel_laddel quit (Changing host) 2014-12-18T09:24:45Z gabriel_laddel joined #lisp 2014-12-18T09:24:46Z munksgaard joined #lisp 2014-12-18T09:28:33Z oudeis_ quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-12-18T09:29:50Z wgslayer joined #lisp 2014-12-18T09:30:10Z frkout quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T09:30:20Z yenda quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-18T09:30:20Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-12-18T09:30:37Z frkout joined #lisp 2014-12-18T09:31:07Z enfors quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-12-18T09:31:34Z Enfors joined #lisp 2014-12-18T09:32:22Z quazimodo joined #lisp 2014-12-18T09:32:31Z jpanest quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-12-18T09:34:53Z Ethan- joined #lisp 2014-12-18T09:36:20Z _zxq9_ joined #lisp 2014-12-18T09:40:42Z jpanest joined #lisp 2014-12-18T09:42:47Z Ukari joined #lisp 2014-12-18T09:45:46Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-12-18T09:45:46Z Ukari quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-18T09:47:59Z gavilancomun joined #lisp 2014-12-18T09:48:08Z scymtym_ joined #lisp 2014-12-18T09:50:00Z mhd_ joined #lisp 2014-12-18T09:51:19Z nostoi quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2014-12-18T09:51:30Z wgslayer quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-18T09:54:26Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp 2014-12-18T09:55:17Z t4intz quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-18T10:01:30Z CrazyWoods quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-12-18T10:01:59Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-18T10:05:06Z Ukari joined #lisp 2014-12-18T10:05:16Z Ukari: !rule 2014-12-18T10:08:24Z przl joined #lisp 2014-12-18T10:09:42Z Ukari: /msg NickServ VERIFY REGISTER Ukari cmxetegpspzv 2014-12-18T10:10:10Z Shinmera: Well done 2014-12-18T10:10:16Z Ukari: ... 2014-12-18T10:10:32Z tkhoa2711 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T10:10:35Z |3b|: better to automate that sort of thing :/ 2014-12-18T10:11:26Z Ukari left #lisp 2014-12-18T10:15:14Z oudeis joined #lisp 2014-12-18T10:15:40Z EvW joined #lisp 2014-12-18T10:21:41Z mhd_ quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2014-12-18T10:36:19Z khisanth_ joined #lisp 2014-12-18T10:38:12Z Khisanth quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-18T10:41:37Z gabriel-artigue left #lisp 2014-12-18T10:41:39Z Ukari joined #lisp 2014-12-18T10:42:35Z oudeis quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-12-18T10:43:45Z oudeis joined #lisp 2014-12-18T10:43:54Z Ukari quit (Quit: Ukari) 2014-12-18T10:44:02Z sheilong joined #lisp 2014-12-18T10:44:20Z EvW1 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T10:44:26Z EvW quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T10:44:51Z jusss quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T10:45:35Z jusss joined #lisp 2014-12-18T10:45:54Z Joreji joined #lisp 2014-12-18T10:48:20Z Enfors quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-12-18T10:48:25Z t4intz joined #lisp 2014-12-18T10:49:03Z oudeis quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-12-18T10:50:30Z Enfors joined #lisp 2014-12-18T10:52:16Z MrWoohoo joined #lisp 2014-12-18T10:55:08Z t4intz quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-18T10:55:43Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T10:55:54Z sheilong quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2014-12-18T10:56:40Z mishoo_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T10:57:32Z vinleod joined #lisp 2014-12-18T10:57:47Z mishoo joined #lisp 2014-12-18T10:58:28Z corni joined #lisp 2014-12-18T10:58:28Z corni quit (Changing host) 2014-12-18T10:58:28Z corni joined #lisp 2014-12-18T11:02:19Z scymtym_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-18T11:04:39Z s00pcan joined #lisp 2014-12-18T11:08:24Z oudeis joined #lisp 2014-12-18T11:10:37Z s00pcan quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-12-18T11:13:05Z chu joined #lisp 2014-12-18T11:14:45Z Enfors quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-12-18T11:15:12Z Enfors joined #lisp 2014-12-18T11:16:53Z tkhoa2711 quit (Quit: tkhoa2711) 2014-12-18T11:17:07Z Enfors quit (Client Quit) 2014-12-18T11:18:26Z enfors joined #lisp 2014-12-18T11:21:40Z oudeis quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-12-18T11:22:26Z s00pcan joined #lisp 2014-12-18T11:22:37Z pt1 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T11:25:19Z s00pcan quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T11:25:34Z s00pcan joined #lisp 2014-12-18T11:26:18Z Joreji quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-18T11:27:32Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-12-18T11:27:43Z s00pcan quit (Client Quit) 2014-12-18T11:27:56Z s00pcan joined #lisp 2014-12-18T11:28:00Z oudeis joined #lisp 2014-12-18T11:32:49Z Jesin joined #lisp 2014-12-18T11:34:00Z Adlai joined #lisp 2014-12-18T11:38:05Z EvW1 quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-18T11:38:05Z pjb quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-18T11:40:10Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2014-12-18T11:40:34Z echo-area quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-18T11:47:34Z tkhoa2711 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T11:48:14Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-12-18T11:50:25Z pjb joined #lisp 2014-12-18T11:51:54Z drdanmaku quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-12-18T11:52:26Z sheilong joined #lisp 2014-12-18T11:56:29Z ignossi joined #lisp 2014-12-18T12:02:12Z EvW joined #lisp 2014-12-18T12:06:09Z drl joined #lisp 2014-12-18T12:08:22Z przl joined #lisp 2014-12-18T12:08:59Z uber_hulk joined #lisp 2014-12-18T12:09:02Z uber_hulk left #lisp 2014-12-18T12:09:58Z oudeis quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-12-18T12:10:33Z psy_ quit (Read error: No route to host) 2014-12-18T12:10:37Z kami quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-18T12:10:39Z urandom__ joined #lisp 2014-12-18T12:13:05Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-18T12:13:07Z _zxq9_ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2014-12-18T12:13:29Z atgreen` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T12:16:49Z psy_ joined #lisp 2014-12-18T12:17:15Z pjb: minion: memo for beach: do you have paredit-mode active in slime-repl? Without paredit, C-M-f is bound to plain emacs forward-sexp instead of paredit-forward. If the sexp is not bland (ie. if it contains CL specific reader macros, not know of emacs lisp), they may behave differently. 2014-12-18T12:17:15Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell beach when he/she/it next speaks. 2014-12-18T12:17:43Z przl joined #lisp 2014-12-18T12:18:11Z shka joined #lisp 2014-12-18T12:18:15Z shka: hi all 2014-12-18T12:18:49Z shka: is there a simple way to check if symbol is not already defined as constant during macro expansion? 2014-12-18T12:19:28Z oudeis joined #lisp 2014-12-18T12:19:37Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-18T12:20:14Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-12-18T12:21:20Z pjb: H4ns: (loop for x in '(-42 +42) collect (format nil "~:[~;-~]~6,'0D" (minusp x) (abs x))) 2014-12-18T12:21:42Z Xach: shka: hmm, i think constantp might help, but maybe it does too much (or too little) 2014-12-18T12:21:46Z ChanServ has set mode +o Xach 2014-12-18T12:22:11Z Xach has set mode -bb *!*poo@80.30.144.* *!*poo@*.Red-2-138-161.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net 2014-12-18T12:22:26Z Xach has set mode +b *!*ignossi@213.143.51.* 2014-12-18T12:22:29Z ignossi [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has been kicked from #lisp by Xach ( spam) 2014-12-18T12:22:33Z Xach has set mode -o Xach 2014-12-18T12:24:13Z zadock joined #lisp 2014-12-18T12:26:43Z eudoxia joined #lisp 2014-12-18T12:26:53Z shortCircuit__ joined #lisp 2014-12-18T12:28:25Z pjb: minion: memo for gabriel-artigue: yes, somebody did develop software to provide a CL implementation thru telnet or some other transport to random users from the Internet. Several people did even, in different ways: by restricting CL evaluation to "safe" functions, or by running a CL implementation in a chrooted environment or VM. 2014-12-18T12:28:25Z minion: Remembered. I'll tell gabriel-artigue when he/she/it next speaks. 2014-12-18T12:29:55Z pjb: shka: (list (constantp 't) (constantp 'x)) --> (t nil) 2014-12-18T12:30:29Z shka: pjb: thanks 2014-12-18T12:31:09Z pjb: be careful, constantp has a limited meaning: (list (constantp 't) (constantp 'x) (constantp (make-array 2))) -> (t nil t) 2014-12-18T12:31:35Z Joreji joined #lisp 2014-12-18T12:31:50Z pjb: ie. you are passing to constantp a _source_ sexp, not a random run-time lisp object. 2014-12-18T12:32:04Z pjb: Notice the environment parameter too. 2014-12-18T12:36:33Z robot-beethoven quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-12-18T12:37:22Z Davidbrcz joined #lisp 2014-12-18T12:38:41Z shka: i see 2014-12-18T12:45:55Z corni quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-18T12:46:33Z Sgeo_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-18T12:48:49Z Sgeo joined #lisp 2014-12-18T12:48:50Z fantazo quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2014-12-18T12:52:24Z resttime quit (Quit: resttime) 2014-12-18T12:54:47Z attila_lendvai quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-12-18T13:01:54Z stepnem joined #lisp 2014-12-18T13:02:18Z Davidbrcz quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-18T13:05:21Z arcwest1 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T13:06:08Z thawes joined #lisp 2014-12-18T13:06:17Z harish joined #lisp 2014-12-18T13:07:31Z lavokad joined #lisp 2014-12-18T13:10:04Z hardenedapple quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-18T13:12:25Z arcwest1 quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-12-18T13:19:07Z lavokad: hi, after starting the repl (and ending in CL-USER package) why does writing *package* work? I understand that only cl:*package*, common-lisp:*package* 2014-12-18T13:19:11Z lavokad: should work 2014-12-18T13:20:06Z Shinmera: CL-USER :uses the CL package, so it obviously also has access to the *PACKAGE* symbol. 2014-12-18T13:20:17Z Shinmera: http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/iiip/doc/CommonLISP/HyperSpec/Body/sec_11-1-2-2.html 2014-12-18T13:20:18Z guicho joined #lisp 2014-12-18T13:22:50Z hardenedapple joined #lisp 2014-12-18T13:30:14Z guicho quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T13:35:29Z protist: so I prefer to have the AST actually available to me when web programming, rather than handing the list off to a macro like cl-who...what do yahl think of something like this? http://pastebin.com/SvK85Etr 2014-12-18T13:35:45Z protist: it is more the way Prolog handles generating html 2014-12-18T13:36:13Z protist: I know I need more html escaping etc, but you should get the idea from this 2014-12-18T13:36:38Z oudeis quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-12-18T13:37:42Z Shinmera: My SEXP extension to Plump works that way. https://github.com/Shinmera/plump-sexp/ 2014-12-18T13:38:05Z protist: Shinmera: ah very similar :D 2014-12-18T13:38:20Z Shinmera: I don't use it myself because I prefer to keep HTML out of the code 2014-12-18T13:38:46Z protist: Shinmera: I really prefer it this way...the advantage is in being able to write functions that take some html AST and alter/use it to produce more 2014-12-18T13:38:57Z Shinmera shrugs 2014-12-18T13:39:03Z Shinmera: I use lQuery for that. 2014-12-18T13:39:26Z protist: Shinmera: lQuery?...is that a Javascript thing?....or something similar in Common Lisp? 2014-12-18T13:39:29Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-12-18T13:39:39Z Shinmera: http://shinmera.github.io/lquery/ 2014-12-18T13:40:17Z protist: ah, that is nice...but it seems like overkill for most back-end type things 2014-12-18T13:40:53Z protist: I dislike the DOM model....prefer to just have lists 2014-12-18T13:41:07Z Shinmera: I don't know, depends on what you like to do. As I said, I don't like having HTML stuff in my code, so I write it in separate files and use a templating engine to do everything for me. 2014-12-18T13:41:43Z Shinmera: But since lQuery employs Plump and there's a Plump-SEXP extension you can have both 2014-12-18T13:41:53Z easye` thinks lquery looks kewl. 2014-12-18T13:42:11Z protist: Shinmera: thank you for pointing me to other strategies :) 2014-12-18T13:42:21Z Shinmera: Any time. 2014-12-18T13:42:37Z Shinmera: Just to add this on, the template engine I use is http://shinmera.github.io/clip/ 2014-12-18T13:43:04Z protist: Shinmera: what makes you like templating? 2014-12-18T13:43:23Z protist: Shinmera: I mean as opposed to the more "dynamic" approach (at least I have heard it called that) 2014-12-18T13:43:24Z Shinmera: As I said, I don't want the HTML in my code and I usually start my designs with a plain HTML document 2014-12-18T13:43:50Z protist: Shinmera: I see :) 2014-12-18T13:43:50Z easye`: There should be an xquery too. the jQuery style of selectors would rock over XML... 2014-12-18T13:43:50Z Shinmera: That way I only have to throw in some extra tags and attributes and voilà I have something that I can see in the browser directly, but also use to generate the actual end-product page. 2014-12-18T13:43:59Z Shinmera: easye`: Plump can parse XML 2014-12-18T13:44:07Z lavokad quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T13:44:08Z Shinmera: easye`: So by extension you can use CLSS/lQuery with it 2014-12-18T13:44:34Z easye`: Shinmera: Right. Use xpath for the selector syntax... 2014-12-18T13:45:22Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T13:50:16Z eudoxia: i wrote a thing that uses plump+cxml+plexippus xpath to do xpath selection 2014-12-18T13:50:19Z BitPuffin joined #lisp 2014-12-18T13:50:44Z eudoxia: it uses plump for parsing, because cxml bails on some XML files, then serializes the plump node, parses that with CXML (guaranteed success i guess), and uses plexippus to do the xpath stuff 2014-12-18T13:50:47Z Shinmera has never even looked at xpath so he can't say if he'd prefer it over CSS selectors 2014-12-18T13:51:06Z Shinmera: eudoxia: Why not just translate the DOM 2014-12-18T13:51:11Z eudoxia: Shinmera: xpath lets you do a lot more than CSS selectors 2014-12-18T13:51:21Z eudoxia: /node[contains(@class,"some-class)] etc. 2014-12-18T13:51:29Z Shinmera: Ah 2014-12-18T13:51:31Z eudoxia: Shinmera: because this is simpler 2014-12-18T13:51:40Z Shinmera: Fair 'nuff 2014-12-18T13:51:52Z Shinmera: I might write an engine similar to CLSS for xpath some day, but eh 2014-12-18T13:52:09Z Shinmera: You could also extend CLSS for arbitrary pseudo selectors to augment missing functionality. 2014-12-18T13:52:25Z eudoxia: bleh my approach is good enough and plexippus-xpath supports every xpath i've thrown at it 2014-12-18T13:52:48Z LiamH joined #lisp 2014-12-18T13:54:22Z Shinmera: And now for something completely different: Jeez, why is the Kindle edition of Lisp in Small Pieces 61$? 2014-12-18T13:55:24Z H4ns: isn't that about the same price as the print edition? 2014-12-18T13:55:37Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-18T13:55:41Z Shinmera: Paperback is 104$ on amazon 2014-12-18T13:55:55Z Shinmera: And used 49$ apparently 2014-12-18T13:55:55Z H4ns: there you have your bargain 2014-12-18T13:56:28Z Shinmera: (hardcover is 605$, what the hell) 2014-12-18T13:56:41Z gravicappa joined #lisp 2014-12-18T13:57:32Z |3b|: prices get silly when there aren't enough sales to keep the pricing bots in check 2014-12-18T13:58:01Z protist: Shinmera: here is a little prototype html escaper....I included a macro of mine at the top so it would make sense: http://pastebin.com/xzVEMxDg 2014-12-18T13:58:09Z lieven: wow at these prices I'm willing to sell my hardcover edition :) 2014-12-18T13:58:12Z Shinmera will hold back for now, I should read the rest of the books I have first 2014-12-18T13:58:49Z |3b|: seem to be a bunch that just mark things at "x% over highest" or "y% below lowest", maybe "z% below highest", so they can get feedback loops and you end up with things listed for thousands 2014-12-18T13:58:50Z Shinmera: lieven: well, used hardcover is 92$ apparently 2014-12-18T13:58:56Z |3b| doubts they sell for that though 2014-12-18T14:00:34Z Shinmera: protist: ok? 2014-12-18T14:00:50Z protist: Shinmera: just thought it was nifty...not trying to make any point lol 2014-12-18T14:01:00Z Shinmera: Not very readable, if you ask me. 2014-12-18T14:02:09Z protist: Shinmera: are you talking about my macro? or is there a cleaner way to do what I did? 2014-12-18T14:02:29Z protist: Shinmera: if so I would enjoy seeing your version :D 2014-12-18T14:02:41Z Shinmera: I'm talking about everything. I've started at it for a while and have not much of an idea of what it does how 2014-12-18T14:02:44Z Shinmera: Maybe I'm just tired 2014-12-18T14:02:46Z Shinmera: protist: https://github.com/Shinmera/plump/blob/master/entities.lisp#L297 2014-12-18T14:03:09Z Shinmera: could be optimised into a single regex scan, but I was lazy. 2014-12-18T14:03:21Z yenda joined #lisp 2014-12-18T14:03:27Z Shinmera: Actually I should do that 2014-12-18T14:04:29Z protist: Shinmera: I don't have the hex conversions...but I'm not using regex at all, just going char by char 2014-12-18T14:04:59Z Shinmera: I noticed that. 2014-12-18T14:05:14Z protist: Shinmera: is it ok if I steel some of your conversion list? :p 2014-12-18T14:05:16Z protist: steal* 2014-12-18T14:05:30Z Shinmera: the source of the list is linked if you take a look 2014-12-18T14:05:41Z protist: Shinmera: ah thank you :) 2014-12-18T14:05:42Z Shinmera: and my code is licensed under Artistic, so, sure. 2014-12-18T14:06:02Z |3b|: protist: why not just have optional+ignorable arguments instead of the flatten stuff, since that won't work right in the general case anyway? 2014-12-18T14:06:27Z |3b|: also, reduce + concatenate might scale poorly 2014-12-18T14:06:39Z nisstyre quit (Changing host) 2014-12-18T14:06:39Z nisstyre joined #lisp 2014-12-18T14:06:44Z protist: |3b|: I don't think lambdas can have optional args, could be wrong 2014-12-18T14:06:54Z Shinmera: lambdas can have an ordinary lambda list 2014-12-18T14:06:56Z Shinmera: so sure they can 2014-12-18T14:07:05Z protist: Shinmera: didn't know that 2014-12-18T14:07:13Z Shinmera: Reading the spec is useful. 2014-12-18T14:08:02Z protist: |3b|: either way, I prefer it to tell me when I have too many args, instead of ignoring them 2014-12-18T14:08:10Z protist: |3b|: I learned something there, though :) 2014-12-18T14:09:56Z oudeis joined #lisp 2014-12-18T14:10:53Z oudeis quit (Client Quit) 2014-12-18T14:12:18Z antonv joined #lisp 2014-12-18T14:12:39Z protist: |3b|: instead of reduce concat...I should prob (apply #'concatenate 'string 2014-12-18T14:12:44Z protist: |3b|: good point :) 2014-12-18T14:13:02Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-18T14:13:06Z eudoxia has been doing reduce concatenate for ages 2014-12-18T14:13:07Z |3b|: apply could run into call-arguments-limit 2014-12-18T14:13:10Z eudoxia: it's so obvious now 2014-12-18T14:13:24Z eudoxia: i wonder what else i'm doing inefficiently 2014-12-18T14:13:26Z oudeis joined #lisp 2014-12-18T14:13:34Z tesuji quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-18T14:13:39Z |3b| would probably just use with-output-to-string 2014-12-18T14:14:49Z Joreji joined #lisp 2014-12-18T14:15:17Z protist: |3b|: didn't know about that limit, that could have been nasty :D 2014-12-18T14:16:12Z dlowe: yeah, with-output-to-string is your best bet there. 2014-12-18T14:16:46Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-12-18T14:17:55Z dra joined #lisp 2014-12-18T14:19:29Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2014-12-18T14:23:40Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-12-18T14:25:33Z Joreji joined #lisp 2014-12-18T14:30:08Z Shinmera: Any obvious things I could speed up about this? http://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/81# 2014-12-18T14:30:34Z Shinmera: ((turns out using a singular regex with or clauses is just as quick as running multiple regexes on the entire thing again. Don't ask me how.) 2014-12-18T14:30:36Z Shinmera: ) 2014-12-18T14:31:06Z dlowe: Shinmera: use for c across string 2014-12-18T14:31:15Z Shinmera: But I need the index 2014-12-18T14:31:40Z Shinmera: Should I run both an index and across? 2014-12-18T14:31:50Z dlowe: you can do (loop for c across string for i from 0 ...) 2014-12-18T14:32:12Z Shinmera: Does LOOP do some magic to make that faster? 2014-12-18T14:32:13Z dlowe: I think you'd be okay just using write-char, though 2014-12-18T14:32:20Z dlowe: it's all in memory 2014-12-18T14:32:37Z thawes quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-18T14:32:57Z gigetoo quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-12-18T14:33:04Z protist: Shinmera: I wonder if that is faster than: http://pastebin.com/4ETPxi6s 2014-12-18T14:33:14Z Shinmera: dlowe: with a primitive benchmark, doing the the across is actually slower. 2014-12-18T14:33:27Z JuanDaugherty joined #lisp 2014-12-18T14:33:27Z dlowe: meaningfully slower? 2014-12-18T14:33:33Z protist: Shinmera: there must be a form of map that edits in place or doesn't produce a return...so I could speed up more 2014-12-18T14:33:39Z Shinmera: http://filebox.tymoon.eu/file/TVRRMA== 2014-12-18T14:33:41Z thawes joined #lisp 2014-12-18T14:33:42Z jumblerg joined #lisp 2014-12-18T14:33:52Z gigetoo joined #lisp 2014-12-18T14:34:17Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-18T14:34:57Z Shinmera: Seems meaningful enough to me, though I can't say why that would be. 2014-12-18T14:36:19Z Joreji joined #lisp 2014-12-18T14:37:36Z Shinmera: Anyway, 5x speedup compared to my previous regex laziness, so I'm happy regardless. 2014-12-18T14:37:52Z protist: Shinmera: how does this compare to your loop? http://pastebin.com/3WJUTfnF 2014-12-18T14:38:00Z protist: Shinmera: using mapc for the side effect part, now 2014-12-18T14:38:33Z jusss quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T14:38:39Z protist: Shinmera: gotta change those fn's or use my macro thing I guess 2014-12-18T14:39:45Z Shinmera: poorly, I would guess. 2014-12-18T14:39:58Z dlowe: yeah, really poorly. 2014-12-18T14:40:01Z Shinmera: And I was right http://filebox.tymoon.eu/file/TVRRMQ== 2014-12-18T14:40:06Z Shinmera: even worse than my 5x regex. 2014-12-18T14:40:21Z Shinmera: (trivial-benchmark is ql-able btw, so run your own tests) 2014-12-18T14:40:24Z protist: Shinmera: interesting 2014-12-18T14:41:10Z przl joined #lisp 2014-12-18T14:41:28Z oleo joined #lisp 2014-12-18T14:41:51Z yrk joined #lisp 2014-12-18T14:42:00Z EvW joined #lisp 2014-12-18T14:42:16Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2014-12-18T14:42:22Z yrk quit (Changing host) 2014-12-18T14:42:22Z yrk joined #lisp 2014-12-18T14:42:47Z drdanmaku joined #lisp 2014-12-18T14:42:59Z protist: Shinmera: weird that runs so much slower....I guess I could compose the functions instead of mapping twice lol 2014-12-18T14:43:04Z protist: Shinmera: I think I can catch up to you :p 2014-12-18T14:43:14Z dlowe: I really don't think so 2014-12-18T14:43:35Z Shinmera: It's not really weird at all. 2014-12-18T14:44:24Z Shinmera: You're first turning your string into a list, which is bound to be very expensive. You then traverse this list three times, each times changing only very small parts. 2014-12-18T14:45:12Z protist: Shinmera: try this? http://pastebin.com/ggs5Xxer 2014-12-18T14:45:23Z protist: Shinmera: or don't, I understand it is a pain lol 2014-12-18T14:45:28Z protist: Shinmera: curious though :) 2014-12-18T14:45:43Z Shinmera: as I said, you can benchmark your thing yourself. 2014-12-18T14:45:53Z Shinmera: the tools I use are available for free 2014-12-18T14:48:03Z protist: Shinmera: hmmm → System "trivial-benchmark" not found 2014-12-18T14:48:09Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T14:48:25Z protist: (ql:quickload '("hunchentoot" "trivial-benchmark")) 2014-12-18T14:48:46Z nikki93 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T14:48:47Z dlowe: Shinmera: annotated http://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/81# 2014-12-18T14:48:53Z nikki93 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-18T14:49:01Z Shinmera: protist: it's in ql though. https://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-projects/issues/724 2014-12-18T14:49:25Z nikki93 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T14:49:54Z Shinmera: dlowe: Hmm, indeed interesting. 2014-12-18T14:50:19Z shortCircuit__ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T14:50:25Z protist: Shinmera: ... 2014-12-18T14:50:41Z dlowe: also, FORMAT is a killer for performance 2014-12-18T14:51:14Z dlowe: Shinmera: the test file is 200k of html, btw 2014-12-18T14:51:27Z Shinmera: Augh, I'm dumb 2014-12-18T14:51:39Z Shinmera: dlowe: Of course your version will be much faster, it only now dawned on me 2014-12-18T14:51:46Z Shinmera should've thought of this sooner. 2014-12-18T14:51:57Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-12-18T14:52:20Z Shinmera: I wonder if it could be sped up further by using a vector of minimum size of the original text instead of a stream. 2014-12-18T14:52:51Z oudeis quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-12-18T14:52:52Z dlowe: you know, I tried that and it was slower 2014-12-18T14:53:04Z Shinmera: Huh, well what do you know. 2014-12-18T14:53:05Z oudeis joined #lisp 2014-12-18T14:53:14Z protist: dlowe: did you try my newest version? 2014-12-18T14:53:15Z Hexstream joined #lisp 2014-12-18T14:53:29Z protist: dlowe: I don't have the benchmark thing to compare....tried to quickload it 2014-12-18T14:53:40Z dlowe: Shinmera: Took 52mil cycles 2014-12-18T14:53:51Z dlowe: (with-output-to-string (output (make-array (list (length text)) :fill-pointer 0 :element-type 'character)) ...) 2014-12-18T14:54:41Z Shinmera: dlowe: Hrm. http://filebox.tymoon.eu/file/TVRRMg== 2014-12-18T14:54:49Z Shinmera: (that's comparing my first version to your annotated one) 2014-12-18T14:55:23Z Shinmera: Though mine has a higher deviation 2014-12-18T14:55:38Z Shinmera: or at least in this test 2014-12-18T14:55:45Z Shinmera: Let me see with bigger files. 2014-12-18T14:56:21Z dlowe: It's comparable and a good deal simpler. 2014-12-18T14:56:38Z towodo joined #lisp 2014-12-18T14:56:45Z protist: dlowe: can you try this one out? http://pastebin.com/FpA0hPNc 2014-12-18T14:56:58Z Shinmera: Yeah, I definitely prefer your version. It just piques my interest right now. 2014-12-18T14:57:31Z dlowe: protist: I'm just using the built-in CL:TIME 2014-12-18T14:57:43Z protist: dlowe: I don't have the same input data 2014-12-18T14:57:51Z Shinmera: but you do have his function 2014-12-18T14:57:56Z Shinmera: so just pick some random data and compare 2014-12-18T14:58:32Z dlowe: yeah, grab a web page from somewhere, save it, and use that 2014-12-18T15:00:14Z theotherstupidgu quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T15:00:28Z theotherstupidgu joined #lisp 2014-12-18T15:03:02Z protist: Shinmera: wow looping is way faster :/ 2014-12-18T15:04:39Z linux_dream joined #lisp 2014-12-18T15:05:17Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-18T15:06:02Z linux_dream quit (Client Quit) 2014-12-18T15:08:32Z gravicappa quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-12-18T15:11:28Z theotherstupidgu quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-18T15:11:42Z dlowe: using map is only a little slower for me 2014-12-18T15:11:50Z dlowe: 36mil cycles 2014-12-18T15:12:30Z theotherstupidgu joined #lisp 2014-12-18T15:13:32Z dlowe: protist: http://pastebin.com/r8TCv2wu 2014-12-18T15:16:58Z protist: Shinmera: nearly doubling your speed of one of your earliest versions with no loop http://pastebin.com/4a0thKZ6 2014-12-18T15:17:09Z protist: Shinmera: need to test your most recent ones now 2014-12-18T15:17:41Z protist: dlowe: ah that is very similar to what I cam up with :) 2014-12-18T15:17:48Z protist: dlowe: try my most recent and compare? 2014-12-18T15:18:10Z dlowe: don't do map 'vector. That makes it return a vector. 2014-12-18T15:18:46Z protist: dlowe: ah...it is going fast though....guess because I am not coercing any more 2014-12-18T15:18:49Z protist: dlowe: hmmm 2014-12-18T15:19:05Z oudeis quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-12-18T15:19:59Z protist: dlowe: yeah you are beating me there :) 2014-12-18T15:20:30Z Shinmera: And now for the much more annoying problem: decoding entities. 2014-12-18T15:20:39Z protist: Shinmera: hehe 2014-12-18T15:22:06Z yonkie quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-12-18T15:24:58Z przl joined #lisp 2014-12-18T15:25:30Z dlowe: It' 2014-12-18T15:25:38Z dlowe: Isn't this solved by other libraries? 2014-12-18T15:26:18Z Shinmera: Most likely, but I like small challenges like this. 2014-12-18T15:28:59Z Xach: one problem is that a fast solution today may involve implementing something like w-o-t-s by hand,but some future improvement to w-o-t-s may make the hand-rolled lose, without getting the future improvements. 2014-12-18T15:29:13Z thawes quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-18T15:29:17Z Ethan- quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-18T15:29:28Z vinleod quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]) 2014-12-18T15:29:32Z thawes joined #lisp 2014-12-18T15:29:34Z arcwest1 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T15:31:03Z Shinmera: Managed to write a bit faster version than my previous ppcre one for decode-entities 2014-12-18T15:31:21Z Shinmera: Now I can drop cl-ppcre from the dependencies altogether. 2014-12-18T15:32:01Z Shinmera: Not that it matters much anyway 2014-12-18T15:32:48Z Joreji quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-18T15:34:39Z dim: Xach: just FIY in case you're asked someday, just by typing a few commands I could do the whole "push Quicklisp update to debian" from my tooling, see changes at https://github.com/dimitri/ql-to-deb/commit/e6b37b43b20650c9e97e424d2ba0cad28d9cd18f --- yes it's currently a small subset, but well 2014-12-18T15:34:54Z dkcl quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-18T15:35:36Z Xach: dim: where do fasls go? 2014-12-18T15:35:39Z dim: I mean that if people want to contribute to the cl-libs-in-debian effort, ql-to-deb is the entry point 2014-12-18T15:35:48Z dim: Xach: compiled at first use, user dependent 2014-12-18T15:35:54Z dim: so not in the packages 2014-12-18T15:36:17Z Denommus quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-12-18T15:36:37Z dim: used to be in the packages back in the common-lisp-controller day and was deemed a security hasard IIUC 2014-12-18T15:36:49Z dim: maybe just a mere inconvenience 2014-12-18T15:37:23Z dandersen joined #lisp 2014-12-18T15:37:24Z dim: long story short, debian only provides source code for cl- packages nowadays, with dependency towards any needed .so packages when required 2014-12-18T15:37:29Z nell joined #lisp 2014-12-18T15:37:38Z Denommus joined #lisp 2014-12-18T15:38:01Z dim: e.g. cl-sqlite debian package depends on libsqlite3-0 2014-12-18T15:38:28Z dim: see https://github.com/dimitri/ql-to-deb/blob/master/packages/cl-sqlite/debian/control 2014-12-18T15:38:40Z protist: Shinmera: solved: http://pastebin.com/v9Brk24w 2014-12-18T15:38:47Z dim: that would be the only reason to consider debian packaging of your quicklisp work 2014-12-18T15:39:11Z protist: Shinmera: uses my "while" macro 2014-12-18T15:39:12Z sroy joined #lisp 2014-12-18T15:39:24Z dlowe: Shinmera: I tried using cl-ppcre and got pretty close 2014-12-18T15:40:07Z arcwest1 quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de) 2014-12-18T15:40:07Z protist: dlowe: I have a decoder :p http://pastebin.com/v9Brk24w 2014-12-18T15:40:42Z protist: while in that is just 2014-12-18T15:40:45Z dlowe: Shinmera: http://plaster.tymoon.eu/view/81# 2014-12-18T15:40:45Z protist: (defmacro while (pred &body body) 2014-12-18T15:40:47Z protist: `(do () ((not ,pred)) ,@body)) 2014-12-18T15:40:48Z yenda quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-12-18T15:40:55Z dlowe: protist: congrats. 2014-12-18T15:41:32Z Shinmera: dlowe: Right, I did something similar, but used "<|>|\"|&" as a regex and that seemed really slow 2014-12-18T15:41:45Z Shinmera: dlowe: probably an unfortunate coincidence in ppcre compiling though 2014-12-18T15:42:00Z dlowe: Building the regex inside your function will kill performance. 2014-12-18T15:42:08Z Shinmera: I know 2014-12-18T15:42:17Z dlowe: though ppcre is supposed to have compiler macros to help the common case 2014-12-18T15:42:18Z Shinmera: but ppcre uses compiler macros and will inline them if it can 2014-12-18T15:42:23Z dlowe: hah. beat you. 2014-12-18T15:42:28Z Shinmera: Yeah if you use a fixed string it inlines it. 2014-12-18T15:42:30Z dlowe: anyway. shrug. 2014-12-18T15:43:00Z arcwest1 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T15:46:04Z protist: goodnight #lisp 2014-12-18T15:46:51Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp 2014-12-18T15:48:17Z zacharias quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1) 2014-12-18T15:48:39Z pjb: protist: have a look at https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/source/common-lisp/html-generator 2014-12-18T15:49:12Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-18T15:50:20Z protist: pjb: interesting :) 2014-12-18T15:50:29Z protist: pjb: I dislike the OOPness of it, though :p 2014-12-18T15:50:34Z protist: pjb: prefer raw lists 2014-12-18T15:50:44Z protist: pjb: I'm off to bed now, thank you for the link :) 2014-12-18T15:50:59Z pjb: protist: try the x* versions of the operators. 2014-12-18T15:51:28Z kapil__ quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-12-18T15:51:35Z nell quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1-dev) 2014-12-18T15:52:37Z protist quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2014-12-18T15:55:23Z julianb joined #lisp 2014-12-18T15:55:27Z bobbysmith007 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T15:57:19Z yrk quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T16:01:38Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-18T16:02:09Z rvchangue joined #lisp 2014-12-18T16:03:34Z rvchangue_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-12-18T16:04:03Z yenda joined #lisp 2014-12-18T16:05:51Z duggiefresh joined #lisp 2014-12-18T16:06:07Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-18T16:07:16Z gilez joined #lisp 2014-12-18T16:13:11Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-12-18T16:14:16Z EvW joined #lisp 2014-12-18T16:15:52Z nyef joined #lisp 2014-12-18T16:16:07Z nyef: G'morning all. 2014-12-18T16:18:28Z Vutral joined #lisp 2014-12-18T16:21:26Z pt1 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-18T16:22:22Z redeemed quit (Quit: q) 2014-12-18T16:23:35Z munksgaard joined #lisp 2014-12-18T16:24:17Z theotherstupidgu quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-18T16:24:49Z hekmek joined #lisp 2014-12-18T16:25:52Z theotherstupidgu joined #lisp 2014-12-18T16:26:14Z jlongster joined #lisp 2014-12-18T16:26:28Z BlueRavenGT quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-18T16:26:51Z gavilancomun quit (Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.91 [Firefox 34.0/20141125180439]) 2014-12-18T16:27:53Z attila_lendvai quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-12-18T16:36:15Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-12-18T16:37:16Z BlueRavenGT joined #lisp 2014-12-18T16:39:18Z hitecnologys quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-18T16:42:00Z tkhoa2711 quit (Quit: tkhoa2711) 2014-12-18T16:44:03Z zadock quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-12-18T16:44:21Z hitecnologys joined #lisp 2014-12-18T16:47:03Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-18T16:50:27Z rszeno joined #lisp 2014-12-18T16:51:57Z ivan4th quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-18T16:55:43Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-12-18T16:58:03Z sdemarre joined #lisp 2014-12-18T17:00:10Z gravicappa joined #lisp 2014-12-18T17:01:20Z zadock joined #lisp 2014-12-18T17:02:53Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-18T17:05:46Z gko_ joined #lisp 2014-12-18T17:08:00Z eudoxia joined #lisp 2014-12-18T17:08:26Z ykm joined #lisp 2014-12-18T17:17:28Z kushal quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-12-18T17:17:49Z schaueho quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-12-18T17:18:18Z rszeno quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-12-18T17:18:59Z zadock quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-12-18T17:21:09Z bb010g quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-12-18T17:21:27Z shka: can complex number use double precision for storing real and imaginery part? 2014-12-18T17:21:36Z shka: hspecs says that it uses float 2014-12-18T17:23:04Z ykm quit (Quit: Bye) 2014-12-18T17:23:35Z Shinmera: a CL float is not a C float. 2014-12-18T17:23:58Z Shinmera: see http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/t_float.htm 2014-12-18T17:24:03Z White_Flame: float is a supertype of the more specialized float types 2014-12-18T17:24:13Z White_Flame: so yes, it can include any of the 4 CL float types 2014-12-18T17:25:15Z White_Flame: as far as I understand the spec, the 2 components of a complex number must be of the same type, though 2014-12-18T17:25:37Z shka: Shinmera ooops, i guess i was catched by the lisp again 2014-12-18T17:27:02Z nikki93: how does quicklisp work with multiple implementations? 2014-12-18T17:27:10Z nikki93: if I installed a project from sbcl can I use it in ccl 2014-12-18T17:27:32Z White_Flame: it distributes source code 2014-12-18T17:28:04Z White_Flame: asdf caches fasls in implementation-specific subdirectories, so there shouldn't be any clash between reuse; it builds per implementation 2014-12-18T17:28:08Z axion: sure, assuming the project was written portably 2014-12-18T17:28:34Z nikki93: nice 2014-12-18T17:28:41Z nikki93: thanks for making everything work every time guys 2014-12-18T17:28:45Z nikki93: lisp ftw 2014-12-18T17:28:47Z przl joined #lisp 2014-12-18T17:28:54Z White_Flame: snoop through ~/.cache/common-lisp to see it 2014-12-18T17:28:59Z Shinmera: As long as you configure your implementation's startup files to use the same quicklisp setup, it'll all use the same sources. 2014-12-18T17:29:11Z nikki93: wait hold on 2014-12-18T17:29:20Z nikki93: do I have to do the quicklisp install on ccl again 2014-12-18T17:29:20Z kushal joined #lisp 2014-12-18T17:29:22Z yrk joined #lisp 2014-12-18T17:29:39Z axion: you just have to edit .ccl-init to load it 2014-12-18T17:29:43Z vaporatorius joined #lisp 2014-12-18T17:29:49Z nikki93: lol nvm read the faq 2014-12-18T17:30:13Z yrk quit (Changing host) 2014-12-18T17:30:14Z yrk joined #lisp 2014-12-18T17:30:17Z theotherstupidgu quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-18T17:30:45Z theotherstupidgu joined #lisp 2014-12-18T17:30:45Z White_Flame: "install" sets up the ql dirs on your system. You only need to do that from 1 implementation (presuming all implementations read from the same default place) 2014-12-18T17:30:54Z White_Flame: the "add-to-init-file" step is per implementation 2014-12-18T17:31:37Z tharugrim quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-18T17:32:16Z khisanth_ is now known as Khisanth 2014-12-18T17:32:19Z nikki93: oh sweet 2014-12-18T17:32:27Z nikki93: also reading 'on lisp' and it's blowing my mind 2014-12-18T17:32:43Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-12-18T17:32:47Z nikki93: I feel like learning lisp and reading nietzsche go hand in hand 2014-12-18T17:32:53Z oleo: lol 2014-12-18T17:33:07Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-18T17:33:13Z oleo: it takes its time.... 2014-12-18T17:33:14Z nikki93: it's like a way of life and a philosophy, not just a language 2014-12-18T17:33:18Z nikki93: I mean it can be just a language 2014-12-18T17:33:23Z tharugrim joined #lisp 2014-12-18T17:33:26Z nikki93: but it's fun when you make it more, and I just care about the fun part 2014-12-18T17:34:17Z aerique quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-18T17:34:27Z nikki93: you need this rapid dev cycle and bending of the language to fully realize your will to power in the creative process 2014-12-18T17:35:17Z aerique joined #lisp 2014-12-18T17:40:08Z Shinmera: Looks like you caught the grahamitis 2014-12-18T17:41:17Z Lowl3v3l joined #lisp 2014-12-18T17:41:37Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-12-18T17:42:07Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-12-18T17:44:35Z theseb joined #lisp 2014-12-18T17:45:50Z leo2007 quit (Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.4.1) 2014-12-18T17:46:10Z gingerale joined #lisp 2014-12-18T17:46:59Z heurist quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-18T17:48:24Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-12-18T17:48:25Z heurist joined #lisp 2014-12-18T17:50:16Z eudoxia: the cycle of the lisper: paul graham's beating the averages -> reading naggum's rants -> living in a shack in the outback restoring an old Lisp Machine 2014-12-18T17:50:50Z chu: lol 2014-12-18T17:53:05Z Shinmera: eudoxia: Beating the averages didn't do the trick for me, though the article about Mc Carthy's original lisp did 2014-12-18T17:53:08Z hiyosi quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2014-12-18T17:54:14Z nyef: I think I read beating the averages AFTER I spent quite a bit of effort on LispM stuff. 2014-12-18T17:55:57Z arenz quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-18T18:02:01Z sroy quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-12-18T18:02:49Z Natch quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T18:08:20Z nikki93 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T18:13:44Z keen___________5 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T18:15:15Z keen___________4 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-12-18T18:18:33Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2014-12-18T18:22:02Z EvW joined #lisp 2014-12-18T18:22:15Z gingerale- joined #lisp 2014-12-18T18:24:17Z gingerale quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-18T18:24:17Z gingerale- is now known as gingerale 2014-12-18T18:28:51Z keen___________6 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T18:29:32Z keen___________5 quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-18T18:29:58Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-12-18T18:36:36Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-12-18T18:40:23Z theseb: does CL have some kind of load/import command to automagically load code in file X when I execute file Y? 2014-12-18T18:40:41Z theseb: e.g. (load "path/to/file-X") ? 2014-12-18T18:42:51Z Grue`: what's wrong with load? 2014-12-18T18:43:02Z kristof joined #lisp 2014-12-18T18:43:05Z theseb: Grue`: my guess is right!? yay! 2014-12-18T18:43:33Z Grue`: well you should've tried before asking! 2014-12-18T18:44:55Z theseb: Grue`: hot dog! i even got the syntax right! 2014-12-18T18:45:21Z Natch joined #lisp 2014-12-18T18:46:48Z jumblerg joined #lisp 2014-12-18T18:46:48Z White_Flame: theseb: you'd typically set up an ASDF file, and load your project, which will load multiple files in proper order, and other projects it's dependent on, instead of manually injecting explicit loads into your source code 2014-12-18T18:47:27Z gendl: Hi, is there something like with-input-from-string which works with arrays, e.g. octet arrays? 2014-12-18T18:47:32Z White_Flame: if your file-X performs top-level commands, those will be re-run when you reload Y 2014-12-18T18:47:58Z gendl: Allegro has excl:with-input-from-buffer, but I’m wondering if there is something like this in CL 2014-12-18T18:48:15Z White_Flame: gendl: I don't believe there's any standard function for that 2014-12-18T18:48:26Z nyef: gendl: Might be something in flexi-streams for that. 2014-12-18T18:48:36Z gendl: thanks 2014-12-18T18:48:55Z mutley89 quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-12-18T18:48:57Z kristof quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-18T18:49:20Z rme: gendl: Not in CL, I don't believe. CCL has http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/wiki/VectorStreams; other implementations might have similar things. 2014-12-18T18:49:22Z MoALTz joined #lisp 2014-12-18T18:49:52Z gendl: rme: thanks. 2014-12-18T18:50:25Z theseb: when would you notice function and atoms have their own separate namespaces? 2014-12-18T18:50:37Z theseb: (besides fact you don't use same command to make each type of variable?) 2014-12-18T18:50:51Z theseb: seems a newb making simple code wouldn't know or care right? 2014-12-18T18:50:52Z keen___________6 quit (Read error: Connection timed out) 2014-12-18T18:51:25Z theseb: since i cut my teeth on SICP i used define for both for long time 2014-12-18T18:51:33Z theseb: (define foo 3) 2014-12-18T18:51:39Z theseb: (define (foo x) (+ x 1)) 2014-12-18T18:51:40Z kami joined #lisp 2014-12-18T18:51:50Z kami: Good evening. 2014-12-18T18:52:03Z nell joined #lisp 2014-12-18T18:52:38Z keen___________6 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T18:53:35Z Grue`: flexi-streams can definitely convert octet array to string, at least 2014-12-18T18:54:26Z yenda quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-18T18:54:52Z yenda joined #lisp 2014-12-18T18:54:52Z milosn quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-18T19:00:23Z zadock joined #lisp 2014-12-18T19:01:01Z pt1 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T19:02:08Z zadock quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T19:05:28Z White_Flame: theseb: the instant you use (let ((list (conjure-up-some-data))) (do-something (list a b c))) 2014-12-18T19:05:49Z White_Flame: and realize that it still works 2014-12-18T19:05:56Z theseb: ah ok 2014-12-18T19:06:16Z zadock joined #lisp 2014-12-18T19:06:26Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-18T19:06:37Z theseb: White_Flame: so it only matters in crazy situations like redefining "list" ! ;) 2014-12-18T19:06:51Z theseb: White_Flame: as long as i don't go crazy it will be under the radar 2014-12-18T19:07:03Z Patzy joined #lisp 2014-12-18T19:08:11Z tbarletz quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T19:08:47Z White_Flame: it's not too uncommon that you'll find that small, generic words like that end up being both a function name and a local variable somewhere 2014-12-18T19:09:03Z White_Flame: 'list' is likely the most common 2014-12-18T19:09:23Z White_Flame: in scheme, it'd always be the equivalent of (let ((lst (conjure-up-some-data))) ...) or whatever 2014-12-18T19:09:23Z theseb: White_Flame: yea...coming from other langs where that isn't allowed i'm used to using local vars with names like list_ 2014-12-18T19:09:31Z White_Flame: right 2014-12-18T19:09:53Z oudeis joined #lisp 2014-12-18T19:10:03Z White_Flame: some conventions like that do exist in CL, though 2014-12-18T19:10:16Z White_Flame: if you're making a customized defclass, it's often named defclass* 2014-12-18T19:10:33Z BlueRavenGT quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T19:10:34Z White_Flame: system internals are often prefixed with % 2014-12-18T19:10:49Z akkad joined #lisp 2014-12-18T19:11:21Z White_Flame: and of course special variables are *earmuffed*, and constants are +whatever-you-call-thisd+ 2014-12-18T19:12:24Z rme: Sometimes, the % prefix means that something non-lispy or unsafe is being done. 2014-12-18T19:13:44Z White_Flame: I believe the spec predates the use of +constant+ pluses, though 2014-12-18T19:13:53Z White_Flame: given that it never uses that notation, afaict 2014-12-18T19:15:21Z jangle joined #lisp 2014-12-18T19:16:08Z tbarletz joined #lisp 2014-12-18T19:19:45Z rtra quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-12-18T19:21:57Z tesuji joined #lisp 2014-12-18T19:25:18Z thawes quit (Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.) 2014-12-18T19:26:20Z rtra joined #lisp 2014-12-18T19:26:45Z thawes joined #lisp 2014-12-18T19:35:52Z gko_ quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-12-18T19:36:04Z ioanna joined #lisp 2014-12-18T19:37:24Z shka: Krystof: are you the author of the dlist? 2014-12-18T19:38:34Z Krystof: um, no, I don't think so 2014-12-18T19:38:37Z Krystof: what is the dlist? 2014-12-18T19:39:14Z Joreji joined #lisp 2014-12-18T19:40:01Z oudeis quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-12-18T19:42:13Z arcwest1 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-18T19:45:24Z arcwest1 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T19:50:06Z przl joined #lisp 2014-12-18T19:52:47Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-12-18T19:54:04Z Joreji joined #lisp 2014-12-18T19:56:16Z admg joined #lisp 2014-12-18T19:59:49Z kami quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-12-18T20:00:17Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T20:01:23Z josemanuel joined #lisp 2014-12-18T20:01:44Z ioanna left #lisp 2014-12-18T20:05:07Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T20:07:00Z slyrus joined #lisp 2014-12-18T20:07:05Z bjorkintosh quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-18T20:09:08Z CrazyM4n joined #lisp 2014-12-18T20:13:18Z julianb quit (Quit: Goodbye) 2014-12-18T20:14:50Z drl quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-18T20:16:21Z josemanuel quit (Quit: Saliendo) 2014-12-18T20:16:28Z CrazyM4n quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T20:17:35Z thawes quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T20:17:43Z patric joined #lisp 2014-12-18T20:19:33Z chef__ joined #lisp 2014-12-18T20:20:10Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-12-18T20:20:12Z CrazyM4n joined #lisp 2014-12-18T20:21:29Z zeitue quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-18T20:23:11Z ggole quit 2014-12-18T20:25:47Z Ralt: hi 2014-12-18T20:25:58Z Ralt: I have an issue that I posted on comp.lang.lisp, and although the answer I got was very detailed, it seems to go very far while I'm not sure it's needed 2014-12-18T20:26:01Z Ralt: link: https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/comp.lang.lisp/nA_vAWqGT2s 2014-12-18T20:26:22Z Kanae quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-18T20:29:04Z Xach: It is a list of hints and suggestions. I would start with #3. 2014-12-18T20:29:47Z eudoxia joined #lisp 2014-12-18T20:30:32Z Ralt: Xach: I actually want to close the stream. 2014-12-18T20:30:40Z Ralt: but I did try with removing it, no change 2014-12-18T20:31:01Z Ralt: (when I say I want to close the stream, it's just that I want to finish the application) 2014-12-18T20:32:19Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-18T20:35:14Z patric quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-18T20:35:26Z zeitue joined #lisp 2014-12-18T20:43:32Z nikki93 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T20:44:02Z tesuji quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-18T20:44:12Z Vutral quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-18T20:46:28Z atgreen joined #lisp 2014-12-18T20:46:56Z JokerDoom joined #lisp 2014-12-18T20:48:31Z MoALTz quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-12-18T20:48:37Z nikki93 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-18T20:49:40Z _JokerDoom quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-12-18T20:50:14Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-12-18T20:54:35Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-12-18T20:55:06Z Vutral joined #lisp 2014-12-18T20:55:22Z jjkola joined #lisp 2014-12-18T20:55:25Z cpc26_ joined #lisp 2014-12-18T20:55:38Z sdemarre quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-18T20:56:09Z cpc26__ joined #lisp 2014-12-18T20:56:18Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2014-12-18T20:56:49Z jjkola quit (Client Quit) 2014-12-18T20:57:02Z cpc26 quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-12-18T20:57:53Z gingerale quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-18T20:59:19Z eee-blt joined #lisp 2014-12-18T20:59:31Z jumblerg joined #lisp 2014-12-18T20:59:49Z cpc26_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-18T21:00:59Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-12-18T21:01:38Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-18T21:04:32Z patric joined #lisp 2014-12-18T21:05:34Z EvW joined #lisp 2014-12-18T21:06:32Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-18T21:07:01Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2014-12-18T21:08:30Z Joreji joined #lisp 2014-12-18T21:08:32Z towodo quit (Quit: towodo) 2014-12-18T21:09:30Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T21:11:46Z resttime joined #lisp 2014-12-18T21:12:30Z hardenedapple quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1) 2014-12-18T21:13:02Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-18T21:13:31Z dra quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-12-18T21:13:55Z Joreji joined #lisp 2014-12-18T21:14:33Z hekmek quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2014-12-18T21:14:52Z prxq joined #lisp 2014-12-18T21:15:51Z zadock quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-18T21:16:18Z zadock joined #lisp 2014-12-18T21:17:27Z jumblerg quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2014-12-18T21:20:06Z theseb quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-12-18T21:21:43Z misv quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-12-18T21:22:49Z misv joined #lisp 2014-12-18T21:23:35Z scymtym_ joined #lisp 2014-12-18T21:26:53Z kami joined #lisp 2014-12-18T21:28:19Z ejbs joined #lisp 2014-12-18T21:28:43Z atgreen quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T21:30:43Z CrazyM4n quit (Quit: installing hard drive) 2014-12-18T21:31:11Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-12-18T21:32:07Z drl joined #lisp 2014-12-18T21:36:23Z drl quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-18T21:41:16Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T21:43:58Z jangle quit (Quit: jangle) 2014-12-18T21:44:14Z patric quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T21:45:14Z replcated quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-12-18T21:45:37Z pt1 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T21:45:46Z replcated joined #lisp 2014-12-18T21:45:50Z oleo quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-18T21:46:29Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T21:47:29Z oleo joined #lisp 2014-12-18T21:47:44Z akkad: Ober: thanks ccl was a lot faster 2014-12-18T21:48:04Z slyrus joined #lisp 2014-12-18T21:48:33Z eudoxia: Xach: i think you missed adding Quickdocs, it's marked as canbuild and closed but not actually in the repo 2014-12-18T21:49:45Z Xach: eudoxia: Thanks, I'll look into it. 2014-12-18T21:50:29Z eudoxia: thanks 2014-12-18T21:51:13Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-12-18T21:51:33Z thawes joined #lisp 2014-12-18T21:51:57Z Xach: commented on the issue 2014-12-18T21:52:40Z yeticry joined #lisp 2014-12-18T21:52:44Z prxq quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T21:55:40Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-12-18T21:56:09Z JuanDaugherty quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T21:56:13Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T21:58:45Z CrazyM4n joined #lisp 2014-12-18T21:59:45Z soggybre1d joined #lisp 2014-12-18T22:00:23Z Joreji quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-18T22:01:39Z bjorkintosh joined #lisp 2014-12-18T22:02:47Z soggybread quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-18T22:03:27Z chu quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-12-18T22:05:30Z zygentoma joined #lisp 2014-12-18T22:07:02Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-18T22:10:01Z arcwest1 quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de) 2014-12-18T22:10:25Z vinleod joined #lisp 2014-12-18T22:11:22Z shka quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0.1) 2014-12-18T22:13:13Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2014-12-18T22:15:17Z thawes quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-12-18T22:15:39Z hrs joined #lisp 2014-12-18T22:18:15Z mrSpec quit (Quit: mrSpec) 2014-12-18T22:18:24Z Ralt: Xach: thanks for your answer on comp.lang.lisp, will include these improvements tomorrow :) 2014-12-18T22:18:30Z Ralt: in the mean time, good night 2014-12-18T22:19:33Z hrs quit (Client Quit) 2014-12-18T22:20:31Z admg quit (Quit: Bye) 2014-12-18T22:21:06Z przl joined #lisp 2014-12-18T22:21:29Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-18T22:21:32Z Ober: akkad: no problem. best to avoid the commercial lisps as no on uses them in the real world as can be seen by the hostility to the questions here. :P 2014-12-18T22:22:17Z Xach: Ober: That is complete nonsense. 2014-12-18T22:22:46Z Xach: They are not often discussed here in part because this network (freenode) is for open source project discussion. 2014-12-18T22:22:47Z rme: Ober: At the ECLM/ELS in Madrid, quite a number of speakers were using commercial CL implementations. 2014-12-18T22:23:19Z Xach: But many people do use commercial CL implementations and find them quite useful. 2014-12-18T22:23:28Z akkad: Freenode is for what Rob wanted Linpeople to become 2014-12-18T22:23:41Z p_l is right now considering shelling out money for LW 2014-12-18T22:23:42Z White_Flame: and they're also not discussed here because (at least in my experience), it's quite easy to ask questions to the commercial vendors directly if you're a user of theirs 2014-12-18T22:23:50Z Xach: That's very true. 2014-12-18T22:23:58Z eudoxia: whenever someone asks something about CL, specially wrt building executables, plenty of people recommend LW etc. 2014-12-18T22:24:13Z Xach: LispWorks has a dedicated and helpful mailing list, too 2014-12-18T22:24:25Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-12-18T22:24:35Z p_l: it's just a bit pricy if you're not a company 2014-12-18T22:26:09Z nyef quit (Quit: G'night all) 2014-12-18T22:26:51Z p_l: (if CL is paying your bills, it might be much easier to justify paying for LW) 2014-12-18T22:28:39Z przl quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-18T22:30:27Z arpunk joined #lisp 2014-12-18T22:33:28Z thawes joined #lisp 2014-12-18T22:36:28Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 265 seconds) 2014-12-18T22:37:54Z quazimodo quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-12-18T22:38:56Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: execution vanished because everything exploded) 2014-12-18T22:40:10Z PuercoPop: Also, isn't ccl comercial? (even though they open source their implementation) 2014-12-18T22:40:23Z slyrus_ joined #lisp 2014-12-18T22:40:49Z p_l: Clozure Associates does commercial consulting, but CCL itself is non-commercial 2014-12-18T22:42:44Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-18T22:42:44Z slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 2014-12-18T22:42:58Z Xach: the poles are not labeled "commercial" and "open source" 2014-12-18T22:43:46Z p_l: Xach: true. I meant it as "is there a commercial license for CCL the implementation" 2014-12-18T22:44:22Z p_l: at least one being present by default, instead of "maybe, let us check if we got necessary relicensing rights for all of code" 2014-12-18T22:45:13Z duggiefresh quit 2014-12-18T22:45:32Z nikki93 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T22:46:11Z PuercoPop: p_l: I think you are confusing commercial with proprietary. 2014-12-18T22:46:39Z moei joined #lisp 2014-12-18T22:48:02Z p_l: PuercoPop: My word choice is not best right now. Commercial support without license change == consulting from Clozure Associates; commercial license for CCL = different license so that the licensee can do proprietary. of course, commercial selling of CCL is possible without that 2014-12-18T22:48:31Z froggey quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-18T22:50:14Z nikki93 quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-18T22:51:33Z Ethan- joined #lisp 2014-12-18T22:55:00Z soggybre1d is now known as soggybread 2014-12-18T22:56:28Z soggybread quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-12-18T22:57:43Z munksgaard joined #lisp 2014-12-18T22:58:12Z soggybread joined #lisp 2014-12-18T22:58:50Z hiyosi_ joined #lisp 2014-12-18T22:58:53Z peterhil` joined #lisp 2014-12-18T22:59:48Z munge` joined #lisp 2014-12-18T23:00:14Z jim87864` joined #lisp 2014-12-18T23:00:15Z dmiles_afk joined #lisp 2014-12-18T23:00:41Z srcerer_ joined #lisp 2014-12-18T23:00:46Z bb010g joined #lisp 2014-12-18T23:02:53Z holycow joined #lisp 2014-12-18T23:03:01Z dmiles quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-18T23:03:02Z kanru quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-18T23:03:04Z CrazyM4n quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-18T23:03:04Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-18T23:03:04Z jim8786453 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-18T23:03:04Z eazar001 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-18T23:03:04Z srcerer quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-18T23:03:04Z Guest7272 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-18T23:03:05Z peterhil quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-18T23:03:05Z munge quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-18T23:03:17Z holycow is now known as Guest14650 2014-12-18T23:06:09Z Xach: Hmmmmm. Making a git archive of antik's git repo results in a file outside of the tree that is apparently tagged with some pax header that marks it as not a real file. But my minitar is too dumb to deal with it properly so it gets unpacked. 2014-12-18T23:06:23Z Xach wonders why on earth git does that and what it's for 2014-12-18T23:06:49Z Xach: it breaks my dist cleanup mechanism because of a bug in the assumption that all entries in software/ will be directories. 2014-12-18T23:06:52Z Xach: oopos 2014-12-18T23:07:02Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-18T23:07:04Z CrazyM4n joined #lisp 2014-12-18T23:07:12Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-12-18T23:07:39Z eazar001 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T23:08:18Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2014-12-18T23:09:48Z sheilong quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2014-12-18T23:10:56Z thawes quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-18T23:11:34Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです。) 2014-12-18T23:12:11Z jumblerg joined #lisp 2014-12-18T23:13:33Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-12-18T23:14:35Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp 2014-12-18T23:15:05Z jumblerg quit (Client Quit) 2014-12-18T23:15:57Z yenda quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-18T23:15:58Z scymtym_ quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-12-18T23:16:07Z gabriel_laddel quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-18T23:16:41Z impulse quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-12-18T23:17:20Z impulse joined #lisp 2014-12-18T23:18:02Z dim: software. assumptions. bugs. oh my 2014-12-18T23:18:43Z bgs100 joined #lisp 2014-12-18T23:19:42Z MoALTz joined #lisp 2014-12-18T23:20:31Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-12-18T23:22:26Z nydel quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-12-18T23:22:44Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-12-18T23:22:45Z pnpuff joined #lisp 2014-12-18T23:23:07Z hekmek joined #lisp 2014-12-18T23:28:18Z hentleman joined #lisp 2014-12-18T23:28:18Z munksgaard quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-12-18T23:28:41Z attila_lendvai quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-12-18T23:29:01Z hitecnologys quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-12-18T23:29:50Z froggey joined #lisp 2014-12-18T23:30:59Z hitecnologys joined #lisp 2014-12-18T23:31:04Z yrk quit (Quit: ERC (IRC client for Emacs 25.0.50.1)) 2014-12-18T23:33:05Z pnpuff quit (Ping timeout: 252 seconds) 2014-12-18T23:36:52Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-12-18T23:36:52Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 2014-12-18T23:36:52Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-12-18T23:38:57Z ejbs quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-12-18T23:39:12Z eudoxia joined #lisp 2014-12-18T23:39:49Z hiyosi_ quit (Quit: My Mac has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2014-12-18T23:46:47Z dmiles_afk quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-12-18T23:47:05Z gilez quit (Quit: Lost terminal)