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2014-11-03T00:45:30Z gabriel_laddel: curious if anyone knows of a CL codebase (something even 1/2 finished is acceptable) that parses a C ast into sexps?
2014-11-03T00:45:52Z pjb: vacietis
2014-11-03T00:46:18Z pjb: https://github.com/vsedach/Vacietis
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2014-11-03T00:46:41Z gabriel_laddel: Thank you. I'll note that I'm aware of autowrap (and that it leverages Clang), just doing due diligence on all possibilities.
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2014-11-03T01:06:21Z jusss: does lisp can print a symbol ; and ( or " ? not a character
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2014-11-03T01:15:24Z pjb: jusss: yes: (map nil 'print '(\; \( \" \?))
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2014-11-03T01:26:08Z jusss: pjb: print a symbol like 'a, print a, but print symbols ; ( " ,print :;: :(: ...
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2014-11-03T01:36:05Z |3b|: jusss: (map nil 'princ '(\; \( \" \?)) ?
2014-11-03T01:36:20Z |3b|: and it is | not :
2014-11-03T01:37:15Z |3b|: which is what it needs to be able to READ it back in and get the same thing, which it tries to allow if you tell it to print readably
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2014-11-03T02:28:17Z zRecursive: clhs rotatef
2014-11-03T02:28:17Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_rotate.htm
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2014-11-03T04:09:31Z beach: Good morning everyone!
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2014-11-03T04:20:45Z pillton: Good morning beach.
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2014-11-03T06:19:41Z drmeister: Good morning beach.
2014-11-03T06:19:56Z drmeister: I plan to get started on integrating Cleavir this week.
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2014-11-03T06:29:34Z beach: Great!
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2014-11-03T06:39:59Z Pixel_Outlaw: lisp
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2014-11-03T06:40:24Z beach: Pixel_Outlaw: Yes?
2014-11-03T06:40:37Z Pixel_Outlaw: Sorry, I was typing in the server and my client auto logged in.
2014-11-03T06:40:38Z Pixel_Outlaw: :)
2014-11-03T06:40:58Z Pixel_Outlaw: Anyway I'll share a nice Lambda/lisp wallpaper if anyone wants a green theme. https://www.dropbox.com/s/nkikldb3aj1irry/Lambda_background.png?dl=0
2014-11-03T06:41:55Z Pixel_Outlaw: You can click the dl link there, should be 1920x1080
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2014-11-03T06:48:00Z beach: Time to get to work.
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2014-11-03T12:21:59Z antoszka: Guys, having a decently form HTML document, what would be a library to access certain elements like a div with id="foo", and within that div a table with a class="bar" (and then maybe iterate over that table's elements)?
2014-11-03T12:22:06Z antoszka: s/form/formed/
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2014-11-03T12:23:34Z dim: clxml maybe?
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2014-11-03T12:24:09Z dim: sorry, http://common-lisp.net/project/cxml/
2014-11-03T12:24:52Z dim: see http://common-lisp.net/project/closure/closure-html/examples.html
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2014-11-03T12:26:16Z antoszka: dim: i'll check that out, thx
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2014-11-03T12:27:05Z Shinmera: antoszka: CLSS
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2014-11-03T12:27:38Z Shinmera: antoszka: http://shinmera.github.io/CLSS/
2014-11-03T12:28:24Z antoszka: lemme see as well
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2014-11-03T12:33:14Z mihailp: hi all
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2014-11-03T12:36:09Z antoszka: ,c 1090 CZK in PLN
2014-11-03T12:36:17Z antoszka: sorry, wrong channel
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2014-11-03T12:41:56Z rick-monster: ok so is/has anyone messed around with live midi in CL ?  I'm thinking at the moment a good approach could be to write some CFFI bindings to the alsa midi sequencer
2014-11-03T12:42:46Z pjb: There's midishare, but it has not been ported to 64-bit yet.  Dumb C coders can't program.
2014-11-03T12:42:49Z rick-monster: spent part of my weekend compiling/poking the Common lisp stuff listed on the planet CCRMA website
2014-11-03T12:43:37Z rick-monster: yes was having a hard time compiling the kernel modules for midishare
2014-11-03T12:44:46Z dim: pjb: what about the lisp music software suite by IRCAM?
2014-11-03T12:44:59Z pjb: I maked a q&d patch to https://gitorious.org/patchwork/midishare/ but it doesn't work on 64bit yet.
2014-11-03T12:45:23Z pjb: Well, patchwork worked on MacOS with midishare.
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2014-11-03T12:46:06Z pjb: It seems openmusic also uses midishare.
2014-11-03T12:46:18Z pjb: http://repmus.ircam.fr/openmusic/download
2014-11-03T12:48:12Z pjb: Now, honestly, while midishare good points can't be denied, it would seems to me that it wouldn't be a great deal to implement a similar real-time midi system directly in lisp.  Most of the complication of midishare came from old systems, slow and non-multi-tasking systems, and nowadays from the FFI part of it.
2014-11-03T12:48:24Z pjb: ie. standard anti-FFI argument.
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2014-11-03T12:49:49Z pjb: Ejsy
2014-11-03T12:50:13Z pjb: What's rather frightening with midishare, is that there is not a unique source for all platforms: they have duplicated the code for each platform!
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2014-11-03T12:50:46Z pjb: ie. it is a maintainace nightmare, until it's merged back into a single code base, with clear modularization.
2014-11-03T12:52:04Z dim: at least you have a pretty clear todo list
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2014-11-03T12:52:56Z rick-monster: my intended project is a 'loop pedal' for midi with optional external midi clock sync
2014-11-03T12:53:09Z pjb: Right. For the moment, it's low priority, I just read and save midi files in batch.
2014-11-03T12:54:13Z pjb: Using the usual cl-midi library with a few patches: https://gitorious.org/abnotation/midi/source/
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2014-11-03T12:56:39Z H4ns: rick-monster: i've used portmidi for the midivent library, that worked pretty well.
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2014-11-03T12:56:58Z H4ns: rick-monster: (i.e. portmidi should be easy to get along with using cl as well)
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2014-11-03T12:57:29Z H4ns: rick-monster: (midivent is a node library) (sorry for the many parentheses) :D
2014-11-03T12:57:48Z pjb: no need to be sorry for that in #lisp.
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2014-11-03T13:05:24Z rick-monster: ah great h4ns - I've been getting into node so this gives me an easy way to get into portmidi
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2014-11-03T13:06:14Z H4ns: rick-monster: midivent is rather old and i fear that it does not compile for current versions of node, but it might be useful as reference.
2014-11-03T13:09:48Z rick-monster: hmm is alsa midi sequencer really such a dog to use directly?   I'm only really interested in making it work on linux...
2014-11-03T13:10:10Z H4ns: rick-monster: i have no idea, sorry
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2014-11-03T13:17:51Z rick-monster: always worth asking in here before running off to reinvent the wheel! Thanks for the info on state of the available libs
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2014-11-03T14:25:58Z Grue`: hmm, if I run swank server with :dont-close t and then close connection remotely with C-k in *slime-connections*, is it the server supposed to die from this?
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2014-11-03T14:27:14Z oGMo: probably not though i don't know what C-k does
2014-11-03T14:27:37Z Grue`: C-k             slime-quit-connection-at-point
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2014-11-03T14:27:50Z oGMo: e.g., i think it's possible to quit the remote lisp now via ,quit or whatnot in the repl, so it depends on what that does
2014-11-03T14:28:13Z CrazyWoods: i got project which are premake4 base (generator gmake file) how to use lisp to call the script file?
2014-11-03T14:28:24Z Grue`: well I thought this would just close connection, but this somehow broke my entire website!
2014-11-03T14:29:04Z oGMo: CrazyWoods: see external-program
2014-11-03T14:30:00Z Grue`: I guess I'll just stick to M-x slime-disconnect
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2014-11-03T14:32:09Z oGMo: Grue`: remap the key to do what you want?
2014-11-03T14:32:49Z oGMo: and so you don't flub-kill your site. also note that slime connections are insecure, and you shouldn't have them running in the open...
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2014-11-03T14:33:51Z Grue`: C-k only works in that specific buffer; also my connection is over ssh tunnel, so should be secure
2014-11-03T14:35:26Z CrazyWoods: oGMo: thank you
2014-11-03T14:36:23Z oGMo: CrazyWoods: cliki.net is the place to start looking for most things
2014-11-03T14:37:48Z CrazyWoods: oGMo: suppose i want to build and auto build system then have a web api, shall i just use lisp or mix lisp with shell?
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2014-11-03T14:39:41Z oGMo: CrazyWoods: that entirely depends on what you're doing
2014-11-03T14:40:21Z oGMo: you can always call a shell script, if a script is necessary or expedient
2014-11-03T14:40:38Z CrazyWoods: oGMo: can i just use lisp?
2014-11-03T14:43:11Z Grue`: for what?
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2014-11-03T14:49:24Z pjb: CrazyWoods: you can perform all your programming tasks with Common Lisp.
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2014-11-03T14:50:37Z Poenikatu: pjb: What do you recommend for replacing shell scripts?
2014-11-03T14:50:52Z pjb: Common Lisp.
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2014-11-03T14:51:01Z pjb: I write all my unix script in clisp.
2014-11-03T14:51:11Z dim: +1
2014-11-03T14:51:15Z pjb: But any CL implementation will do.
2014-11-03T14:51:16Z Poenikatu: pjb: Do you use any particular libraries?
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2014-11-03T14:51:26Z pjb: In general, no.
2014-11-03T14:51:37Z pjb: I have a little script.lisp file that most my scripts load.
2014-11-03T14:51:39Z Poenikatu: pjb: How do you get on with directories/files
2014-11-03T14:51:47Z dim: well don't you count informatimago as your particular libs?
2014-11-03T14:51:56Z Poenikatu: pjb: Could you paste the file?
2014-11-03T14:52:07Z dim: Poenikatu: asdf driver is now named uiop and has good enough coverage for directories/files
2014-11-03T14:52:15Z pjb: I exterminate from my file systems files that can't be processed by the CL file and directory primitives :-)
2014-11-03T14:52:18Z Poenikatu: dim: Thanks
2014-11-03T14:53:01Z pjb: Poenikatu: http://git.informatimago.com/viewgit/index.php?a=viewblob&p=public/bin&h=93d02d06e15ccf4883eb0ec54f3e62ab3cfe1258&hb=fee45e44a98935013644a65a3eb7508fe186ec79&f=script.lisp
2014-11-03T14:53:47Z Poenikatu: pjb: Thanks
2014-11-03T14:53:57Z pjb: for example: http://git.informatimago.com/viewgit/index.php?a=viewblob&p=public/bin&h=187f91b65969319819e986bdd9aeff922a1b2875&hb=fee45e44a98935013644a65a3eb7508fe186ec79&f=memo
2014-11-03T14:54:08Z CrazyWoods: pjb: all? how about the stuff like premake4 and gmake does?
2014-11-03T14:54:42Z pjb: CrazyWoods: make -> asdf
2014-11-03T14:54:47Z oGMo: um no heh
2014-11-03T14:54:59Z oGMo: CrazyWoods: you can do anything you like, but some things are better than others
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2014-11-03T14:55:52Z oGMo: CrazyWoods: start with calling out to your stuff, and if you find you want to rewrite some in CL, do that, or if you need some script wrappers, do that
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2014-11-03T14:56:12Z Grue`: I feel like startup time of these lisp scripts wouldn't be all that great
2014-11-03T14:56:14Z CrazyWoods: pjb: asdf work for c/c++ project?
2014-11-03T14:56:37Z pjb: CrazyWoods: yes, you can compile C or C++ with asdf.
2014-11-03T14:56:47Z oGMo: Grue`: that's why i wrote ScriptL
2014-11-03T14:56:51Z CrazyWoods: oGMo: this script will return some status and generator output
2014-11-03T14:56:53Z pjb: Some projects have a few C sources and do that.
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2014-11-03T14:58:12Z oGMo: CrazyWoods: sure .. e.g., with autowrap, i call out to c2ffi, check its return status, and specify/deal with the output files it generates
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2014-11-03T14:58:28Z oGMo: i use external-program for that, works nicely
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2014-11-03T14:59:49Z oGMo: also for ScriptL, i generate the scriptlcom binary by calling out to configure and make ;)
2014-11-03T15:00:39Z CrazyWoods: oGMo: i see
2014-11-03T15:02:20Z CrazyWoods: oGMo: there seems only bare-bones doc for external-program
2014-11-03T15:03:35Z oGMo: well it calls a program and you get the return code.. i don't think much documentation was required
2014-11-03T15:03:44Z oGMo: i'm not sure i even ever looked at it
2014-11-03T15:04:35Z oGMo: https://github.com/sellout/external-program/wiki/API <- that seems like more than sufficient documentation
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2014-11-03T15:12:24Z CrazyWoods: oGMo: ok
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2014-11-03T16:57:14Z Xach: luis: any word on a slime update?
2014-11-03T17:02:56Z stassats: what slime update?
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2014-11-03T17:03:25Z Xach: slime is time boxed
2014-11-03T17:03:31Z Xach: time is passing
2014-11-03T17:03:37Z Xach: i am curious about the boxing
2014-11-03T17:03:43Z stassats: oh, you mean a release?
2014-11-03T17:03:46Z Xach: yes
2014-11-03T17:04:05Z stassats: i expect a lot of people would be unhappy about the new release
2014-11-03T17:04:29Z Xach: why?
2014-11-03T17:04:36Z stassats: package name changes, etc.
2014-11-03T17:05:28Z Xach: I thought it was still compatible for now, with compatible nicknames or something similar.
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2014-11-03T17:06:04Z stassats: but you can't connect to older versions anymore, since it has new packages now, swank-repl, for example
2014-11-03T17:06:17Z stassats: well, nobody expects older versions to work, but it usually worked well enough
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2014-11-03T17:09:55Z stassats: now that there are releases and stuff, i would like a stable protocol
2014-11-03T17:11:01Z stassats: (and a pony)
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2014-11-03T17:31:56Z rpg: For SLIME, is there a way to have multiple .swank.lisp files, for different kinds of lisp sessions?
2014-11-03T17:32:16Z rpg: What are your ways of configuring SLIME sessions for different projects?
2014-11-03T17:35:08Z pjb: rpg: you can easily load different files in .swank.lisp
2014-11-03T17:36:43Z rpg: pjb: I have multiple different commands, that dynamically bind slime-default-lisp and then call (slime), for different projects. I'd like a project-specific lisp session initialization.
2014-11-03T17:37:00Z rpg: I felt sure someone would have a nice way to do this (nicer than I'd figure out on my own).
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2014-11-03T17:43:11Z pjb: I have different settings of swank bindings, but I change then by hand when need be.
2014-11-03T17:43:30Z pjb: You must decide on a way to select one project or another.
2014-11-03T17:43:50Z pjb: It could be an emacs variable, an environment variable an argument to the inferior lisp.
2014-11-03T17:44:09Z pjb: Detect it in .swank.lisp and load files (or evaluate forms) accordingly.
2014-11-03T17:44:24Z rpg: pjb: I select by having different interactive elisp functions that start my SLIME. I can give them the corresponding lisp executables their own --load options
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2014-11-03T17:49:53Z rpg: pjb: So for my prism project, I have (prism), which starts ABCL, and will configure it accordingly (right ASDF paths, etc.).
2014-11-03T17:50:00Z rpg: Thanks! back later...
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2014-11-03T18:20:46Z shka: hi
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2014-11-03T18:21:03Z shka: how to bind to only second value returned with values?
2014-11-03T18:21:40Z Grue`: nth-value
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2014-11-03T18:27:11Z shka: heh, makes senes
2014-11-03T18:27:15Z shka: Grue`: thanks!
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2014-11-03T18:52:25Z Xach: Hmm, I guess this update is already going from 2.9 to 2.10.1
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2014-11-03T19:47:46Z fiveop: Can anyone tell me why there is encode-slots and encode-object in yason?
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2014-11-03T19:55:46Z H4ns: fiveop: i should be, but i've got a hard time understanding why i came up with the two
2014-11-03T19:56:02Z Xach: heh
2014-11-03T19:57:05Z H4ns: fiveop: i think the idea was that you could define a method on encode-slots to encode only some of the slots in an object.  i'm not sure why that would not be possible using an encode-object method right now, sorry :(
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2014-11-03T19:59:30Z H4ns: ah, the docstrings on the generic function gives some clues
2014-11-03T20:00:50Z H4ns: but i'm not sure if the two functions make a lot of sense now.  i don't think i ever used them.
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2014-11-03T20:02:39Z fiveop: H4ns: thanks
2014-11-03T20:05:47Z fiveop: It was teadious to figure out how to prevent code duplication when writing encode and encode-object for a class. I had to search on github for 'encode-object' instead of looking at the documentation.
2014-11-03T20:06:12Z fiveop: If you think about it afterwards, it makes sense, but a few more examples might be helpful :)
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2014-11-03T20:15:46Z marvin-hh: What's the point of having all kinds of 'powerful tools' when nobody documents their uses?
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2014-11-03T20:16:47Z marvin-hh: My experience (with other developers) is that the more rope they have to hang themselves, the faster they hang themselves.
2014-11-03T20:17:43Z Xach: It is not very useful if not documented.
2014-11-03T20:17:51Z marvin-hh: Static type systems as such are then also not there because they are "more expressive", but because they protect people from themselves.
2014-11-03T20:18:18Z marvin-hh: Not that I am saying static type systems are the only cure for this, but it's a solution.
2014-11-03T20:18:47Z marvin-hh: Xach: I have people who write a single function which have three different types depending on the branch taken.
2014-11-03T20:18:59Z H4ns: marvin-hh: i've seen plenty of statically typed system where it was not at all clear why certain functions or methods existed
2014-11-03T20:19:14Z H4ns: marvin-hh: documentation and type systems are completely orthogonal.
2014-11-03T20:19:50Z marvin-hh: H4ns: well, at least you weed out the possibility to return a branch dependent type.
2014-11-03T20:20:02Z stassats: static type system don't force people into writing good code
2014-11-03T20:20:17Z marvin-hh: Some actually do force them to write correct code.
2014-11-03T20:20:24Z Xach: fsvo "correct"
2014-11-03T20:20:41Z stassats: that is not really true, and why are we even having that discussion?
2014-11-03T20:20:41Z j_king: nothing can except experience and wisdom.
2014-11-03T20:20:43Z H4ns: marvin-hh: it requires documentation to define correctness.
2014-11-03T20:20:53Z H4ns: stassats: i'm sorry.
2014-11-03T20:21:04Z marvin-hh: H4ns: let me guess... you already have a job.
2014-11-03T20:21:04Z H4ns: stassats: i felt trolled.  and humiliated :D
2014-11-03T20:21:04Z oGMo: where "correct" means the computer does exactly what you wrote
2014-11-03T20:21:25Z H4ns: marvin-hh: job?  now you're really trying to stretch it
2014-11-03T20:22:19Z marvin-hh: j_king: you just read GEB?
2014-11-03T20:22:49Z stassats: this is getting more and more silly
2014-11-03T20:24:13Z j_king: marvin-hh: a few years ago, yeah.
2014-11-03T20:24:31Z marvin-hh: stassats: there are a couple of programming language where the type system only accepts correct implementations given a specification (which might have been written by someone else).
2014-11-03T20:24:48Z oGMo: who proves the specification?
2014-11-03T20:25:06Z marvin-hh: oGMo: that doesn't mean anything.
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2014-11-03T20:25:23Z stassats: did i miss the beginning of the discussion? i don't really get why are you selling static type systems here
2014-11-03T20:25:31Z marvin-hh: stassats: I am not.
2014-11-03T20:25:33Z oGMo: all i can say is, i can still run CL written 10+ years ago and it works just fine, and that's all i need
2014-11-03T20:25:43Z j_king: is this #lisp? did I stumble upon #fp-weenie?
2014-11-03T20:25:57Z marvin-hh: Do you actually have coworkers?
2014-11-03T20:26:08Z marvin-hh: Or do you just hack around by yourself?
2014-11-03T20:27:05Z oGMo: j_king: #starry_eyed_newbie i think
2014-11-03T20:27:11Z marvin-hh: I don't think there is a single end user application written in Common Lisp shipped in a major Linux distribution, not being a compiler.
2014-11-03T20:27:17Z Grue`: #non-sequiturs
2014-11-03T20:27:44Z stassats: marvin-hh: then why are you in #lisp?
2014-11-03T20:27:50Z H4ns: we have been trolled
2014-11-03T20:27:59Z j_king: H4ns: have not.
2014-11-03T20:28:00Z stassats: if you don't have to say anything on topic
2014-11-03T20:28:26Z marvin-hh: stassats: because I wondered how in an even more dynamic language you ever get such things like quality when you have people who barely know the meaning of the word.
2014-11-03T20:28:27Z j_king: H4ns: i refuse to be trolled. more like, lol'd.
2014-11-03T20:28:28Z stassats: and is that the infamous "say a wrong statement and wait to be proven wrong" way of asking questions?
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2014-11-03T20:29:53Z marvin-hh: What a sad channel.
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2014-11-03T20:29:58Z H4ns: "job" "coworkers" "quality" "linux distributions"
2014-11-03T20:30:07Z H4ns: ah.  we've lost him
2014-11-03T20:30:15Z Xach feels happier
2014-11-03T20:30:44Z stassats: and i didn't get to use "go away" line, sad indeed
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2014-11-03T20:37:29Z j_king: i wonder if we'll get a temorarily-popular post on social news sites about how toxic the #lisp culture is and that's why Common Lisp sucks from this one.
2014-11-03T20:37:44Z Xach: doubtful
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2014-11-03T20:39:40Z p_l: it's already a thing, it's just that CL is old enough for "social network" to mean "mailing lists", "irc channels", and such
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2014-11-03T20:40:34Z Xach: I don't want to go too meta, but http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2014/08/25/%23ubuntu-ops.txt suggests #lisp is not exceptional
2014-11-03T20:40:35Z jasom: huh, akamai just published a lisp implementation of http2; I had no idea anyone there used lisp.
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2014-11-03T20:40:44Z Xach: "just"?
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2014-11-03T20:41:06Z p_l: Xach: #debian was also... fun
2014-11-03T20:41:10Z Xach: http://xach.livejournal.com/322938.html
2014-11-03T20:41:24Z jasom: okay, not just
2014-11-03T20:41:40Z H4ns: "just" in lisp terms
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2014-11-03T20:41:57Z Xach: moments ago, in lisp terms
2014-11-03T20:42:12Z Xach: seeing how lisp.org still hasn't moved on
2014-11-03T20:42:50Z H4ns: well, john mccarthy just died
2014-11-03T20:42:51Z H4ns: so
2014-11-03T20:43:26Z p_l changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language <http://cliki.net/> <http://paste.lisp.org/new> logs:<http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/>|contact op if muted|SBCL 1.2.4, yason 0.6.7, Drakma 1.3.10
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2014-11-03T20:43:49Z Grue`: SBCL is already at 1.2.5
2014-11-03T20:44:07Z Grue`: re:topic
2014-11-03T20:44:17Z p_l changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language <http://cliki.net/> <http://paste.lisp.org/new> logs:<http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/>|contact op if muted|SBCL 1.2.5, yason 0.6.7, Drakma 1.3.10
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2014-11-03T20:48:27Z therik: hola lispers
2014-11-03T20:49:01Z dlowe: hi, therik
2014-11-03T20:49:24Z Zag: hi
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2014-11-03T21:22:50Z Shinmera: Grue`: Re slime disconnect: At the repl you can do ,disconnect RET
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2014-11-03T21:36:49Z Grue`: Shinmera: cool, gonna use this next time
2014-11-03T21:40:35Z Shinmera: Grue`: be wary though, as ,quit works too ;)
2014-11-03T21:40:58Z Shinmera: Grue`: I've killed my website accidentally at least three times so far. I wish there was a way to inhibit this for when I connect to a remote.
2014-11-03T21:41:31Z stassats: sometimes i want to quit
2014-11-03T21:41:50Z Shinmera: Well yes, but a prompt would be nice for "true remotes"
2014-11-03T21:42:02Z Shinmera: Though I don't suppose slime knows to make that difference.
2014-11-03T21:42:08Z stassats: but q is not the only thing you can do will kill your image, so, just be mindful
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2014-11-03T22:47:04Z Xach: H4ns: i committed a fix to that gross buildapp bug where it hangs waiting for subprocess terminal input
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2014-11-03T22:47:27Z Xach: i had hoped to do a grand overhaul sooner than now, but it has stalled a little. so it's just a little fix until the big update.
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