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2014-10-31T00:06:19Z Ryan_Burnside: Resources in general usually have a 'with' macro that wraps around them.
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2014-10-31T00:06:49Z cracauer: Is there an IRC channel for SLIME?
2014-10-31T00:06:58Z stassats: cracauer: it's #lisp
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2014-10-31T00:07:37Z cracauer: I have a SLIME setup that uses the repl package. Can I downgrade the running thing to use interaction with the inferior-lisp buffer instead?
2014-10-31T00:08:21Z stassats: why would you want to?
2014-10-31T00:08:39Z cracauer: I need to see things printed to stderr from C code inline with what the Lisp was saying
2014-10-31T00:09:05Z stassats: you can, but i don't condone violations of the geneva conventions, so, i won't help you
2014-10-31T00:09:45Z stassats: well, you don't need to downgrade, now do you? how about just running code from the inferior-lisp buffer
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2014-10-31T00:10:05Z cracauer: The way I run slime the inferior-lisp buffer doesn't have working input.
2014-10-31T00:10:17Z cracauer: It's probably from (setf swank:*communication-style* :fd-handler)
2014-10-31T00:10:24Z stassats: no, it's output redirection
2014-10-31T00:10:35Z cracauer: (setf swank:*use-dedicated-output-stream* t)
2014-10-31T00:10:36Z cracauer: (setf swank:*globally-redirect-io* t)
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2014-10-31T00:11:03Z stassats: the amount of time you spent asking this and figuring it out is more than just running from the terminal
2014-10-31T00:11:25Z cracauer: well there's always shell-mode but I was hoping for better.
2014-10-31T00:11:51Z stassats: disable redirection and restart?
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2014-10-31T00:12:27Z stassats: just change the value of *standard-output*?
2014-10-31T00:16:22Z cracauer: hmmm, that is working-ish
2014-10-31T00:17:49Z cracauer: I guess I don't remember why I had to put those originally. Thanks!
2014-10-31T00:18:42Z cracauer: the only ugly thing is that compilation warnings still go to the repl buffer
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2014-10-31T00:24:52Z resttime: how's this for SBCL now? http://paste.lisp.org/display/144229
2014-10-31T00:25:09Z stassats: can you annotate the pastes instead next time?
2014-10-31T00:25:32Z resttime: alright got it
2014-10-31T00:25:43Z stassats: why is with-output-to-string (s) not in process-stream-to-output?
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2014-10-31T00:26:27Z stassats: and how is it that sb-ext:process-exit-code is before sb-ext:process-wait ?
2014-10-31T00:27:29Z resttime: k
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2014-10-31T00:34:26Z resttime: now? http://paste.lisp.org/display/144229#1
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2014-10-31T00:37:02Z stassats: that looks nice now
2014-10-31T00:37:12Z stassats: except for the LOOP indentation
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2014-10-31T00:55:04Z resttime: phew time for a commit and pull request: http://paste.lisp.org/display/144229#2
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2014-10-31T00:56:03Z resttime: that got really elegant
2014-10-31T00:56:15Z resttime: my initial code sucked so much lol
2014-10-31T00:57:56Z stassats: resttime: http://paste.lisp.org/display/144229#3
2014-10-31T00:58:03Z stassats: and you can use with-open-stream as well
2014-10-31T00:59:55Z stassats: resttime: and cmu and scl are the same
2014-10-31T01:00:11Z resttime: whoops lol
2014-10-31T01:00:59Z linux_dream: hey guys which IDE would you suggest to a newbie in lisp and programming in general?  I have geany, gedit, etc.
2014-10-31T01:01:13Z linux_dream: but I cannot make some code work with the terminal
2014-10-31T01:01:20Z nyef: linux_dream: emacs.
2014-10-31T01:01:45Z linux_dream: thank you.. emacs alone?
2014-10-31T01:01:49Z stassats: there's only one ide, like it or not
2014-10-31T01:01:56Z linux_dream: emacs?
2014-10-31T01:02:13Z nyef: Some people would recommend using slime with emacs if you're going to be doing lisp stuff, but emacs alone is sufficient.
2014-10-31T01:02:27Z BitPuffin: linux_dream: well emacs is easily the king of lisp
2014-10-31T01:02:36Z stassats: emacs is necessary, but not sufficient
2014-10-31T01:02:36Z linux_dream: ok thanks guys I'm getting it
2014-10-31T01:02:44Z linux_dream: not sufficient?
2014-10-31T01:02:46Z BitPuffin: lol
2014-10-31T01:03:08Z nyef: If emacs isn't sufficient, slime is overkill.
2014-10-31T01:03:12Z BitPuffin: it's built for lisp in lisp :P, that's why it's got commands such as mark-defun
2014-10-31T01:03:28Z BitPuffin: slime is great
2014-10-31T01:03:28Z nyef: Just beware of kill-sexp-backwards. (-:
2014-10-31T01:03:49Z linux_dream: well I'm getting emacs right now. hope it's enough
2014-10-31T01:04:01Z BitPuffin: though every time I say slime and swank to any of my friends they laugh :/
2014-10-31T01:04:40Z BitPuffin: linux_dream: it's enough, don't worry
2014-10-31T01:04:49Z linux_dream: ok thanks
2014-10-31T01:04:57Z stassats: i wouldn't be using CL if it were not for slime
2014-10-31T01:04:59Z BitPuffin: prepare to be scared of some of the keybindings though
2014-10-31T01:05:03Z BitPuffin: keep in mind that it started in like
2014-10-31T01:05:06Z BitPuffin: the 70s?
2014-10-31T01:05:11Z BitPuffin: think it was mid 70s
2014-10-31T01:05:11Z linux_dream: when I save a file in which I entered lisp commands, I save it as .lisp?  or just .txt
2014-10-31T01:05:13Z BitPuffin: so
2014-10-31T01:05:19Z BitPuffin: to save you do ctrl+x ctrl+s
2014-10-31T01:05:23Z BitPuffin: instead of just ctrl+s
2014-10-31T01:05:28Z linux_dream: ok
2014-10-31T01:05:31Z BitPuffin: you can use cua-mode to get more typical stuff
2014-10-31T01:05:34Z BitPuffin: but I advice you not to
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2014-10-31T01:05:46Z nyef: Mmm. If you're a real emacs newbie, start with the tutorial.
2014-10-31T01:05:50Z BitPuffin: since emacs has so extremely many commands it actually has to build some sequences
2014-10-31T01:05:53Z BitPuffin: yeah
2014-10-31T01:05:58Z Petit_Dejeuner: "<stassats> there's only one ide, like it or not" LispWorks is only $1000, right?
2014-10-31T01:05:59Z BitPuffin: do ctrl+h t when you start it
2014-10-31T01:06:22Z stassats: Petit_Dejeuner: except that it sucks
2014-10-31T01:06:23Z BitPuffin: isn't it free for personal use Petit_Dejeuner?
2014-10-31T01:06:34Z Petit_Dejeuner: I have no idea. I just remember it costing a lot.
2014-10-31T01:06:35Z linux_dream: ok I'm in the tuto
2014-10-31T01:06:51Z Petit_Dejeuner: stassats, What is it like anyway? Just VS/Eclipse but lisp?
2014-10-31T01:07:05Z linux_dream: do you guys have experience with Maxima software?
2014-10-31T01:07:53Z BitPuffin: to be fair I think emacs+slime beats pretty much what all IDEs have to offer
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2014-10-31T01:08:33Z resttime: this has to be the absolute limit of elegance http://paste.lisp.org/display/144229#4
2014-10-31T01:08:37Z resttime: reachable
2014-10-31T01:09:34Z stassats: except for the botched indentation
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2014-10-31T01:09:52Z zRecursive: linux_dream: learning & using Maxima now ...
2014-10-31T01:10:11Z linux_dream: nice zRecursive
2014-10-31T01:10:25Z resttime: uhh, there
2014-10-31T01:10:30Z linux_dream: this is what attracted me to lisp
2014-10-31T01:10:32Z stassats: and with-open-stream should go over with-output-to-string, and you can keep the process-stream variable name
2014-10-31T01:10:45Z zRecursive: linux_dream: it is better to join maxima mailing list
2014-10-31T01:10:52Z linux_dream: I already did
2014-10-31T01:11:00Z linux_dream: but I want to understand the code
2014-10-31T01:11:10Z linux_dream: my dream is to implement a new function in Maxima
2014-10-31T01:11:19Z linux_dream: the polylogarithm one
2014-10-31T01:11:34Z stassats: and i would name PROCESS-STREAM-TO-OUTPUT PROCESS-OUTPUT
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2014-10-31T01:11:44Z linux_dream: so I've checked out how the erf function was implemented.. and it's 250 lines long
2014-10-31T01:12:11Z zRecursive: have you understood it now ?
2014-10-31T01:12:20Z linux_dream: no haha I just started lisp
2014-10-31T01:12:29Z linux_dream: without programming background
2014-10-31T01:12:42Z stassats: maxima developers don't know lisp either, so you'll be in a good company
2014-10-31T01:12:54Z linux_dream: lol...
2014-10-31T01:13:43Z zRecursive: In fact, i like CL primarily for Maxima :)
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2014-10-31T01:14:16Z linux_dream: I guess Maxima can be ultra powerful once you know lisp
2014-10-31T01:14:41Z stassats: maxima isn't really related to CL, except that it's written in it
2014-10-31T01:14:50Z stassats: it uses a different language
2014-10-31T01:15:10Z linux_dream: I see
2014-10-31T01:16:26Z Bicyclidine: well, you can use CL from maxima, but the problem is there's a 40% chance the CL will be GCL
2014-10-31T01:16:31Z resttime: maximum elegance^2 http://paste.lisp.org/display/144229#6
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2014-10-31T01:17:03Z stassats: resttime: you know what i will say
2014-10-31T01:17:15Z ack006: Bicyclidine: unless you build maxima yourself :-)
2014-10-31T01:17:17Z resttime: w-wwhat
2014-10-31T01:17:24Z stassats: resttime: INDENTATION
2014-10-31T01:17:31Z stassats: http://paste.lisp.org/display/144229#3
2014-10-31T01:18:29Z ack006: Bicyclidine: maxima builds with SBCL just fine (tested version 1.2.5)
2014-10-31T01:18:40Z resttime: should i always do that with loop?
2014-10-31T01:18:45Z linux_dream: I built it with clisp I believe
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2014-10-31T01:18:49Z resttime: emacs auto indents it to how ihave it
2014-10-31T01:19:02Z stassats: fix up your auto indentation then
2014-10-31T01:19:23Z stassats: that's why i have, some prefer DO to be offset as well, but this is what you should be doing at the least
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2014-10-31T01:21:47Z ack006: weird thing is that running `run_testsuite();` twice in a row in maxima causes the second run to produce failures.
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2014-10-31T01:22:04Z resttime: alright, now with these 6 extra whitespaces the code has reached the state of nirvana
2014-10-31T01:22:49Z stassats: and you should keep the distance between function at one line, not two
2014-10-31T01:22:59Z stassats: (between sbcl and ccl)
2014-10-31T01:23:12Z Petit_Dejeuner: "<resttime> alright, now with these 6 extra whitespaces the code has reached the state of nirvana" If you used tabs instead of spaces your code would look better but use less characters.
2014-10-31T01:23:18Z stassats: you thought it's going to end? hah!
2014-10-31T01:23:32Z stassats: Petit_Dejeuner: worst advice ever
2014-10-31T01:23:43Z Petit_Dejeuner: stassats, I assumed he was joking too.
2014-10-31T01:24:24Z resttime: haha not so fast, i already anticipated that distance and accounted for it
2014-10-31T01:24:27Z resttime: http://paste.lisp.org/display/144229#7
2014-10-31T01:25:07Z stassats: TO in process-to-output doesn't sound nice
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2014-10-31T01:25:19Z ack006 meditates on nirvana and the empty list...
2014-10-31T01:27:09Z resttime: uhhh, output-from-process?
2014-10-31T01:27:22Z stassats: just process-output?
2014-10-31T01:27:32Z stassats: and does ccl:process-wait  really work like that?
2014-10-31T01:27:53Z resttime: http://ccl.clozure.com/ccl-documentation.html#f_process-wait
2014-10-31T01:28:06Z stassats: => no
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2014-10-31T01:32:29Z stassats: reaching EOF may seem to achieve the same thing, but there still may be a race
2014-10-31T01:32:45Z stassats: and i don't think ccl has problem with redirection on windows, so you can use the old way
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2014-10-31T01:38:49Z resttime: i think i'll keep the new way for unity http://paste.lisp.org/display/144229#8
2014-10-31T01:39:05Z resttime: this HAS to be it
2014-10-31T01:39:16Z stassats: what on earth is (ccl:process-wait "nirvana" process)?
2014-10-31T01:40:06Z resttime: the wholine
2014-10-31T01:41:53Z resttime: actually wait you're right it's completley off
2014-10-31T01:43:31Z Xach: hmm. did duplicate macro definitions recently get upgraded from a style-warning to a full warning in sbcl 1.2.5?
2014-10-31T01:43:57Z stassats: they did change
2014-10-31T01:44:08Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds)
2014-10-31T01:44:31Z Xach: ok. that breaks CLX (and everything that depends on CLX)
2014-10-31T01:44:37Z Xach: shame on me for not testing more :(
2014-10-31T01:45:22Z stassats: but it's a style-warning
2014-10-31T01:46:06Z stassats: advertised as a style-warning
2014-10-31T01:46:22Z stassats: and it is, CCL gives a full warning
2014-10-31T01:46:55Z Xach: I don't understand. Did duplicate macro definitions in a single file change recently? If so, did it change to a full warning in 1.2.5?
2014-10-31T01:46:59Z DrCode quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2014-10-31T01:47:12Z stassats: it never was a warning, not it is a style warning
2014-10-31T01:47:59Z Xach: My mistake, sorry about that.
2014-10-31T01:48:11Z Xach: clx does fail to build for me. I can't figure out why from the log.
2014-10-31T01:48:13Z Xach looks harder
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2014-10-31T01:49:31Z ack006: Xach: CLX built fine from quicklisp with SBCL 1.2.5 last time I tried
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2014-10-31T01:50:23Z Xach: same here. but something is going wrong.
2014-10-31T01:50:30Z Xach: i mean, last time before this most recent time.
2014-10-31T01:52:43Z linux_dream quit (Quit: Leaving)
2014-10-31T01:54:06Z Xach: It says there's a UIOP/LISP-BUILD:COMPILE-FILE-ERROR but I don't see any WARNING: or ERROR: output.
2014-10-31T01:54:20Z Xach: It fails on dependent.lisp
2014-10-31T01:54:37Z stassats: paste?
2014-10-31T01:55:01Z stassats: stop the press, i get it now too
2014-10-31T01:55:25Z ack006: distro?
2014-10-31T01:55:33Z Xach: http://report.quicklisp.org/clx/2014-10-30/failtail.txt
2014-10-31T01:56:11Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks)
2014-10-31T01:56:17Z resttime: please tell me its done already http://paste.lisp.org/display/144229#9 D:
2014-10-31T01:56:47Z stassats: resttime: ok, does it work?
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2014-10-31T01:57:24Z resttime: loads fine from SBCL
2014-10-31T01:57:57Z resttime: deleted cache before testing etc.
2014-10-31T01:58:10Z stassats: and ccl? and cmucl?
2014-10-31T01:58:12Z Xach: stassats: press stopped
2014-10-31T01:59:11Z resttime: ccl it's the exact same code theoretically
2014-10-31T01:59:27Z stassats: "theoretically"
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2014-10-31T02:01:25Z Xach: stassats: is there something i can do to help with clx and sbcl?
2014-10-31T02:01:36Z stassats: see clx.asd
2014-10-31T02:01:51Z stassats: line 146
2014-10-31T02:02:31Z Xach: boo
2014-10-31T02:02:40Z Xach: ok
2014-10-31T02:02:51Z stassats: hell, do i hate the way asdf signals compile errors
2014-10-31T02:03:31Z stassats: it doesn't even signal, it just completely bonkers, so much time spent looking for the "WARNING:" in the output
2014-10-31T02:03:42Z Xach: I will commit a fix to clx tomorrow
2014-10-31T02:04:27Z stassats: and like, when there's something broken, you don't know which file it is right away, and have to fish it out of the backtrace and try to C-x C-f it, argh, hate hate
2014-10-31T02:04:39Z stassats: ok, i'm calmed down a bit
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2014-10-31T02:06:20Z stassats: and the way without-interrupts is implemented for sbcl escapes me
2014-10-31T02:06:46Z Xach: I was just going to add more to the #-(or ...) (progn ...) one
2014-10-31T02:06:55Z stassats: right
2014-10-31T02:06:57Z Xach: so it is not read
2014-10-31T02:08:30Z stassats: so, is it just for threads running CLX to stop executing code at the same time? why other implementation have real without-interrupts?
2014-10-31T02:08:43Z stassats: can it dead lock?
2014-10-31T02:10:23Z yuikov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-10-31T02:10:25Z stassats: if it still has things #+explorer t, who cares
2014-10-31T02:10:30Z Xach: yeah
2014-10-31T02:10:42Z miql quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-10-31T02:10:49Z Xach: when genera comes back, asdf and clx will be ready
2014-10-31T02:11:00Z ack006 :-)
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2014-10-31T02:13:58Z stassats: and then there is without-aborts
2014-10-31T02:15:17Z nyef: ... Also known as "choose life"?
2014-10-31T02:16:15Z nyef: (Or, alternately, "if NASA was a startup"?)
2014-10-31T02:16:27Z resttime: CCL is now a.o.k, turns out all the #'let from the original was some magic with processes
2014-10-31T02:16:38Z resttime: to ensure things finish
2014-10-31T02:16:39Z stassats: like, multiply genus? as in, genera?
2014-10-31T02:17:02Z stassats: (some poor pun on without-aborts existing because of genera)
2014-10-31T02:17:29Z stassats: ok, i'm too scared by clx code, time to close it quickly
2014-10-31T02:17:43Z gendl: Hi, is there a uiop operator which gives the fasl extension ?
2014-10-31T02:17:57Z stassats: clhs c-f-p
2014-10-31T02:17:58Z specbot: Matches: compile-file-pathname, compiled-function-p.
2014-10-31T02:18:06Z stassats: clhs compile-file-pathname
2014-10-31T02:18:06Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_cmp__1.htm
2014-10-31T02:18:25Z ack006: stassats: do you use slime? maybe you can try the slime-asdf contrib (haven't tried it myself, maybe it has better debugger support)
2014-10-31T02:18:43Z stassats: i wrote parts of slime-asdf, so, not really
2014-10-31T02:18:55Z jusss: how to expand code like c by macro ?
2014-10-31T02:18:57Z ack006: stassats: 8-)
2014-10-31T02:19:20Z jusss: how to solve special character like ) and ;
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2014-10-31T02:19:50Z gendl: stassats: thanks.
2014-10-31T02:20:07Z jusss: write others language code by macro is possible ?
2014-10-31T02:20:52Z stassats: reader macros, yes
2014-10-31T02:22:20Z DrCode quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2014-10-31T02:22:38Z jusss: stassats: it can solve the special charactrer like ) or ; ?
2014-10-31T02:22:50Z stassats: there's nothing special about those
2014-10-31T02:23:06Z stassats: in fact, they are reader macros themselves
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2014-10-31T02:49:16Z resttime: if anyone could test if they can load "cffi-libffi" on https://github.com/resttime/cffi using cmucl
2014-10-31T02:49:45Z resttime: please do, I don't think I'm able to right now
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2014-10-31T03:07:05Z allen: what do you advise to one who is addicted to lisp?
2014-10-31T03:07:34Z allen: addicted to dissasembling, reassembling, composing functions, passing them here and there, interactively, and at times at runtime?
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2014-10-31T03:12:17Z zRecursive: better than playing Games :)
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2014-10-31T03:28:02Z ack006: sadly stassats left, here's a message for him:
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2014-10-31T03:31:40Z ack006: stassats: you can debug asdf builds by doing (clx as an example): (let ((*break-on-signals* 'error)) (asdf:load-system 'clx :force t))
2014-10-31T03:32:03Z ack006: stassats: that will break to the debugger on error
2014-10-31T03:32:14Z ack006: stassats: hth
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2014-10-31T04:21:27Z ack006: Xach: to help your friend with clx, clean cache, then do: (let ((*break-on-signals* 'error)) (ql:quickload "clx"))
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2014-10-31T04:21:54Z ack006: Xach: better than my previous example, clx fails to build the second time (forced) for some reason.
2014-10-31T04:22:49Z ack006: Xach: cmucl doesn't like clx either
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2014-10-31T04:27:10Z beach: Good morning everyone!
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2014-10-31T04:47:44Z pillton: Good morning beach.
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2014-10-31T04:55:02Z resttime: darn i think cffi-libffi broke :/
2014-10-31T04:55:20Z resttime: can't seem to pass structure by value
2014-10-31T04:55:37Z resttime: though I can recieve them, i can't seem to successfully give them to a function
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2014-10-31T04:57:29Z beach: resttime: Remind me what you are using FFI for.
2014-10-31T04:58:32Z resttime: right now its this http://alleg.sourceforge.net/a5docs/5.0.10/graphics.html#al_clear_to_color
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2014-10-31T05:02:04Z beach: Thanks.
2014-10-31T05:02:34Z resttime: like the function is just empty in a way
2014-10-31T05:02:44Z resttime: the cffi translated ones
2014-10-31T05:03:02Z resttime: when I try to #'defcfun
2014-10-31T05:03:09Z resttime: it says the parameters remain unused
2014-10-31T05:03:18Z resttime: for some odd reason
2014-10-31T05:03:34Z resttime: I remember it used to work at least one year ago
2014-10-31T05:05:59Z jasom: resttime: can you paste your defcfun definition to paste.lisp.org?
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2014-10-31T05:08:52Z resttime: http://paste.lisp.org/display/144231'
2014-10-31T05:08:55Z resttime: http://paste.lisp.org/display/144231
2014-10-31T05:09:52Z resttime: http://paste.lisp.org/display/144231#1 forgot structure type definition
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2014-10-31T05:11:29Z jasom: do you have cffi-libffi loaded?
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2014-10-31T05:13:09Z jasom: "If a foreign structure is to be passed or returned by value (that is, the type is of the form (:struct ...)), then the cffi-libffi system must be loaded, which in turn depends on libffi, including the header files."
2014-10-31T05:14:11Z resttime: yup it's in my cl-liballegro dependencies
2014-10-31T05:14:22Z resttime: quickloaded it though just to be sure
2014-10-31T05:14:28Z resttime: http://paste.lisp.org/display/144231#2
2014-10-31T05:14:41Z resttime: heres what I get every time I try to reload that file
2014-10-31T05:14:48Z resttime: err definition
2014-10-31T05:15:14Z resttime: returning by value works good
2014-10-31T05:15:26Z resttime: passing to a parameter seems to be the problem
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2014-10-31T05:17:46Z resttime: and similar errors happen with every #'defcfun giving it a structure parameter
2014-10-31T05:18:13Z resttime: it doesn't use the variables created are unused
2014-10-31T05:18:27Z resttime: tested on CCL and SBCL with similar problems
2014-10-31T05:18:31Z resttime: *same
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2014-10-31T05:22:15Z resttime: the bindings in question: https://github.com/resttime/cl-liballegro
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2014-10-31T05:42:38Z kakaouette: woaa!! free bitcoins here to http://cryptosrevolution.wix.com/beta
2014-10-31T05:43:26Z resttime: i was correct
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2014-10-31T05:43:56Z resttime: i took CFFI from around 1 year ago
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2014-10-31T05:44:23Z resttime: this older version of CFFI works perfectly
2014-10-31T05:44:57Z resttime: time for some investigation *sigh*
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2014-10-31T05:52:29Z resttime: this commit is the problem: https://github.com/cffi/cffi/commit/867033672b587d7768736dd322017664088952cc
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2014-10-31T06:28:01Z beach: resttime: Are you using Allegro for something, or are you just creating bindings for it?
2014-10-31T06:28:20Z resttime: right now i'm creating bindings
2014-10-31T06:28:26Z resttime: i want them to work VERY well
2014-10-31T06:28:38Z beach: Sure.
2014-10-31T06:29:24Z resttime: yup confirmed that it's that specific commit that broke it
2014-10-31T06:29:39Z resttime: just copied the older functions.lisp to the latest git version
2014-10-31T06:29:43Z resttime: and it works again
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2014-10-31T06:31:28Z resttime: issue https://github.com/cffi/cffi/issues/47
2014-10-31T06:31:52Z resttime: and if anyone a CFFI maintater, my pull request https://github.com/cffi/cffi/pull/46
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2014-10-31T06:32:29Z resttime: though I didn't test the pull stuff with cmu or scl
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2014-10-31T06:34:22Z resttime: i wonder if i should keep investigating or call it quits and use the older functions.lisp file
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2014-10-31T06:39:06Z beach: If you find a maintainer, it might be easier for that person to investigate.  Just my 0.02€ worth of course.
2014-10-31T06:39:25Z resttime: i don't know of any lol
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2014-10-31T06:41:48Z beach: Time to get to work.
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2014-10-31T06:59:45Z H4ns: does cl have a way to search for a certain file in multiple locations?
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2014-10-31T07:06:04Z pjb: H4ns: yes, DIRECTORY
2014-10-31T07:06:30Z pjb: (directory "/*/*/df") --> (#P"/gentoo/bin/df" #P"/ubuntu/bin/df")
2014-10-31T07:06:46Z pjb: You can also use ** for different levels.
2014-10-31T07:07:26Z pjb: if you want something like PATH, you will have to do it yourself (some implementation have something like that for LOAD etc. cf. eg. clisp).
2014-10-31T07:07:33Z pjb: or cmucl.
2014-10-31T07:07:47Z pjb: But this is specific to those operators and implementations.
2014-10-31T07:08:01Z H4ns: pjb: thanks.  i was looking for something that allows me to specify the order in which the locations are searched, like in PATH.  i'll roll my own.
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2014-10-31T07:28:36Z pjb: H4ns: perhaps you can use something inside ASDF?
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2014-10-31T07:32:47Z H4ns: my needs are simple, i just wanted to avoid replicating something that would already been solved by using a proper logical pathname setup
2014-10-31T07:33:52Z H4ns: i kind of miss vms's logical names - there, you could just define a logical name with search list and then open files using that logical name as prefix.  and that'd work anywhere in the system.
2014-10-31T07:33:56Z H4ns: *sigh*
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2014-10-31T07:45:48Z pjb: (find-if (function probe-file) *directories* :key (lambda (dir) (merge-pathnames file dir))) is not that hard to write either.
2014-10-31T07:46:22Z pjb: (and unless you use it a lot, you could even hardly justify the functional abstraction).
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2014-10-31T07:46:57Z H4ns: right.  but i'll have to either put complete pathnames into *directories* or use two variables, one with the base pathname and one with the subdirectories to search.
2014-10-31T07:47:38Z pjb: (find-if (function probe-file) *rel-directories* :key (lambda (reldir) (merge-pathnames file (merge-pathname reldir base))))
2014-10-31T07:47:43Z pjb: *base*
2014-10-31T07:48:20Z H4ns: no really?
2014-10-31T07:48:25Z pjb: slyrus: r
2014-10-31T07:48:27Z pjb: oops
2014-10-31T07:48:52Z pjb: yes: (merge-pathnames "hello/world/" "/tmp/") --> #P"/tmp/hello/world/"
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2014-10-31T07:53:01Z resttime: YYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
2014-10-31T07:53:09Z resttime: my bindings work on 64bit platforms
2014-10-31T07:53:20Z resttime: ccl x64 and sbcl x64 tested
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2014-10-31T07:53:40Z resttime: need to super turbo charge the lisp interface
2014-10-31T07:53:55Z resttime: then these are some extremely mature bindings
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2014-10-31T07:56:03Z H4ns: "extremely mature", like in "has been in production use for longer than my own lifetime"?
2014-10-31T07:57:01Z resttime: maybe a slight exaggeration on my part :D
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2014-10-31T08:56:40Z alpha-: does the loop macro have some sort of facility to "just return this one value"?i.e. now I have (let ((result 1)) (loop do (mutate-result ...) until (...)) result)
2014-10-31T08:56:50Z alpha-: is there a way to get rid of let in there ?
2014-10-31T08:58:15Z H4ns: finally (loop with result = 1 .. finally (return result)) maybe?
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2014-10-31T09:00:44Z alpha-: maybe!
2014-10-31T09:00:53Z alpha-: I'll give it a try, thanks H4ns
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2014-10-31T09:19:43Z Grue`: alpha-: LETs around loop are generally replaced with "with", but in your case you can also write (loop for result = initial-value then (next-value result) until ... finally (return result))
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2014-10-31T14:21:43Z octophore: what's the channel for Lisp game development?
2014-10-31T14:22:03Z hitecnologys: octophore: #lispgames
2014-10-31T14:22:12Z octophore: Thank you.
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2014-10-31T14:56:04Z Mandus:  
2014-10-31T14:56:11Z jusss: read-macro, how to handle character (
2014-10-31T14:56:17Z jusss: and )
2014-10-31T14:56:24Z jusss: ; ' "
2014-10-31T14:57:48Z jusss: make lisp to expand like printf("hello world??/n"); ,how to write ?
2014-10-31T14:59:35Z Xach: jusss: you can try (get-macro-character #\() and M-. on what it returns.
2014-10-31T15:00:00Z Xach: The implementation you see that way will probably not be particularly didactic, but you can be confident it works.
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2014-10-31T15:03:10Z pjb: jusss: lisp is essentially Polish notation.  Operators are written as the first element of lists.  For reader macros, it's the first character that determines the reader macro executed.
2014-10-31T15:03:25Z pjb: jusss: therefore if you want to read printf("hello world??/n"); you must put a reader macro on #\p.
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2014-10-31T15:04:18Z pjb: Since it will soon feel silly to do so (you'll soon have to put a reader macro on all the characters, which with unicode makes a lot of reader macros), you'd be well advised to choose another character to introduced your syntax.
2014-10-31T15:04:40Z pjb: For example, { would feel natural: {printf("hello world??/n");} ; <-- to make it nice, balance it.
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2014-10-31T15:05:26Z Xach: Someone has recently made such a thing
2014-10-31T15:05:44Z Xach: https://github.com/y2q-actionman/with-c-syntax
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2014-10-31T15:10:17Z Petit_Dejeuner: Huh, the testing framework I made while reading PCL would be more helpful than lisp-unit is right now.
2014-10-31T15:11:48Z Xach: that is why there are so many
2014-10-31T15:11:51Z prxq: Petit_Dejeuner: why is that?
2014-10-31T15:11:54Z jussss: chicken turn scheme to c , use read macro ?
2014-10-31T15:12:29Z Xach: jussss: no.
2014-10-31T15:13:52Z Petit_Dejeuner: prxq, When a test fails, it tells me which one failed.
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2014-10-31T15:14:11Z prxq: Petit_Dejeuner: that looks like a true killer feature
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2014-10-31T15:15:43Z dlowe: jussss: if you want to talk about other lisps, the place to do that is in ##lisp or in the specific language channel
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2014-10-31T15:50:51Z CrazyWoods: Are there someone here using DrRacket?
2014-10-31T15:51:57Z nalkri: You probably want #scheme
2014-10-31T15:52:09Z nalkri:  This channel is Common Lisp :)
2014-10-31T15:52:21Z CrazyWoods: nalkri: ok
2014-10-31T15:57:13Z Petit_Dejeuner: CrazyWoods, #racket would probably be the best to ask
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2014-10-31T15:58:26Z CrazyWoods: Petit_Dejeuner: still looking for cross-platform gui solution :(
2014-10-31T15:58:44Z Petit_Dejeuner: CrazyWoods, Racket's GUI library should work fine.
2014-10-31T15:58:57Z Petit_Dejeuner: DrRacket's broken?
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2014-10-31T15:59:53Z CrazyWoods: Petit_Dejeuner: DrRacket are scheme base not common lisp
2014-10-31T16:00:18Z Petit_Dejeuner: CrazyWoods, But I thought you wanted DrRacket help?
2014-10-31T16:01:06Z CrazyWoods: Petit_Dejeuner: no real, i am just looking for cross-platform gui solution, language & gui-toolkit
2014-10-31T16:01:17Z Xach: CrazyWoods: what program will you write?
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2014-10-31T16:03:01Z wasamasa: CrazyWoods: web uis are cross-platform
2014-10-31T16:03:12Z wasamasa: CrazyWoods: and can be done using any language
2014-10-31T16:03:27Z CrazyWoods: Xach: a Component Base & Data Driven game engine, and i want to build a gui for manipulate the data
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2014-10-31T17:11:56Z devon: Anyone know how to portably get a stream from a file-descriptor?
2014-10-31T17:12:15Z H4ns: devon: you don't.  file descriptors are not portable in the first place.
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2014-10-31T17:15:08Z beach: Good evening everyone!
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2014-10-31T17:17:53Z Ryan_Burnside: Hello beach.
2014-10-31T17:18:22Z Ryan_Burnside: Is there an elegant way to prefix a string with x many space characters using the FORMAT directive?
2014-10-31T17:18:30Z Ryan_Burnside: Maybe I'm not seeing it in the docs...
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2014-10-31T17:25:24Z Grue`: (format nil "~va~a" 20 "" "test") prints 20 spaces before "test"
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2014-10-31T17:26:37Z pjb: (format nil "~24<~A~>" "test") too.
2014-10-31T17:28:08Z Grue`: right, I didn't even try the pretty printing stuff because it always seemed too arcane to me, but this seems more elegant
2014-10-31T17:28:39Z Ryan_Burnside: I'm doing some stuff where I'm pretty printing and the number of indents is not constant. Thanks guys.
2014-10-31T17:28:43Z Ryan_Burnside: :)
2014-10-31T17:28:54Z pjb: Well, it's not the same semantics. Perhaps Ryan_Burnside wants: (format nil "~20<~>~A" "test")
2014-10-31T17:29:18Z beach: Grue`: Did you see my remark the other day about SYMBOL-PLIST and SYMBOL-FUNCTION?
2014-10-31T17:29:30Z Grue`: beach: yeah
2014-10-31T17:29:33Z beach: OK.
2014-10-31T17:29:36Z beach: Just checking.
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2014-10-31T17:30:41Z Ryan_Burnside: I like FORMAT. It is very powerful, somewhat out of place but nice to use.
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2014-10-31T17:31:55Z Ryan_Burnside: Grue`, looks like your version is exactly what I needed.
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2014-10-31T17:33:01Z pjb: Ryan_Burnside: the advantage of ~<~> is that it doesn't require an additionnal parameter.  It may lead to more efficient code (or not).
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2014-10-31T17:35:16Z Ryan_Burnside: pjb, I actually have the number of prefixes set to a variable. It exists outside my print function. So it cannot be known beforehand.
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2014-10-31T17:35:44Z Ryan_Burnside: I'm indenting XML body lines.
2014-10-31T17:35:47Z Grue`: Ryan_Burnside: just replace numeric argument by "v"
2014-10-31T17:36:19Z Ryan_Burnside: AH I see what you're getting at.
2014-10-31T17:37:44Z Ryan_Burnside: ok works, thanks guys
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2014-10-31T18:14:20Z mncoder: CrazyWoods: Have you looked at something like SDL? https://github.com/lispgames/cl-sdl2
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2014-10-31T18:28:14Z devon: Let me re-phrase that, is there a portable way to create a sub process and communicate with it in full-duplex?
2014-10-31T18:29:23Z dlowe: Without a library? No.
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2014-10-31T18:30:14Z dlowe: There are some portability wrappers, I think trivial-shell is one.
2014-10-31T18:31:15Z Grue`: uiop probably has something
2014-10-31T18:33:34Z sauerkrause: I use trivial-shell
2014-10-31T18:34:10Z sauerkrause: works pretty well. you can use a stream for stdin and take a stream for stdout and stderr
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2014-10-31T18:36:10Z sauerkrause: I used it when I was too lazy to implement an irc bot command in CL and I already had a command line tool to do what I needed.
2014-10-31T18:37:03Z Grue`: "Personal opinion: trivial-shell had its time, but uiop:run-program and its front-end inferior-shell are more portable, more robust, more featureful, more widely used, and uiop:run-program is already part of your implementation-provided asdf 3. Use uiop and/or inferior-shell instead. — Fare Rideau"
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2014-10-31T18:39:38Z Petit_Dejeuner: Or just CL21 ;)
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2014-10-31T18:43:24Z devon: UIOP/RUN-PROGRAM:RUN-PROGRAM docs seem to say it can input or output but not both at once.
2014-10-31T18:44:24Z pjb: devon: you cannot do that without threads.
2014-10-31T18:44:37Z devon: Yeah, I intend to use threads.
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2014-10-31T18:45:17Z pjb: libraries must provide the lcm of all implementations. Some implementations have (or can have) no threads.
2014-10-31T18:49:15Z devon: So for some intersection of bordeaux-threads and uiop ... maybe.
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2014-10-31T18:51:20Z pjb: Have a look at the source of uiop:run-program.
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2014-10-31T18:51:58Z pjb: Portability libraries are all nice, but it would be better if people wrote CDRs and had vendors implement them (common APIs) directly.
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2014-10-31T18:52:45Z Grue`: i was so mad the other day when i discovered bordeaux-threads:with-lock-held doesn't have wait-p parameter, even though acquire-lock does
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2014-10-31T19:30:37Z jasom: devon: note that on unix systems full-duplex over pipes is deadlock prone
2014-10-31T19:31:19Z jasom: devon: it's generally considered better form to socketpair and then fork/exec.  I don't know of any libraries that do that for you, but it should be fairly easy to do.
2014-10-31T19:31:22Z pjb: Yes, that's the reason why you need different threads to write and to read, so they can lock independently.
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2014-10-31T19:32:55Z Petit_Dejeuner: Weird. When I try to use my macro it complains that I'm using a function with that name and not enough arguments. Recompiling the macro doesn't do anything.
2014-10-31T19:33:26Z jasom: Petit_Dejeuner: macroexpand is your friend
2014-10-31T19:34:26Z pjb: The macro must be defined before it's used.
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2014-10-31T19:40:51Z CrazyWoods: mncoder: cl-sdl2 are special for game, isn't it?
2014-10-31T19:41:35Z Petit_Dejeuner: Thanks. macroexpand helped
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2014-10-31T19:44:11Z CrazyWoods: pjb: are you there?
2014-10-31T19:45:26Z pjb: I am.
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2014-10-31T19:46:48Z CrazyWoods: pjb: what's your mainly language?
2014-10-31T19:46:59Z pjb: Common Lisp.
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2014-10-31T19:49:30Z CrazyWoods: pjb: for what?
2014-10-31T19:49:54Z CrazyWoods: pjb: web server app or desktop gui?
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2014-10-31T19:55:34Z pjb:  For everything.
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2014-10-31T19:55:47Z pjb: I'm doing more desktop gui than web servers.
2014-10-31T19:56:09Z CrazyWoods: pjb: thank which gui toolkit do you use?
2014-10-31T19:56:48Z pjb: I'm porting the MCL GUI toolkit from MCL/MacOS to ccl/MacOSX (and in the future, to any CL implementation/clx).
2014-10-31T19:57:51Z CrazyWoods: pjb: which one do you suggest for cross-platform use?
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2014-10-31T19:58:13Z pjb: Depends on the platform, and the kind of application.
2014-10-31T19:58:23Z pjb: Try: To get help choosing a CL implementation, connect to telnet://voyager.informatimago.com:8101 ; have a look at http://www.cliki.net/Common%20Lisp%20implementation
2014-10-31T20:00:15Z CrazyWoods: pjb: CL implementation would be clear, but i not sure about the gui toolkit
2014-10-31T20:01:00Z fortitude: CrazyWoods: I haven't used it much myself, but I've heard some people around here say good things about commonqt (bindings for QT, which is cross-platform)
2014-10-31T20:01:31Z pjb: My favorite GUI toolkit would be GNUstep, so that could be what I'd use.
2014-10-31T20:02:05Z jasom: CrazyWoods: I use ltk
2014-10-31T20:02:32Z CrazyWoods: fortitude: that should learn about c++
2014-10-31T20:02:38Z dlowe: I use ltk, too. The level of crazy in Qt bothers me.
2014-10-31T20:02:44Z CrazyWoods: jasom: for complex gui application?
2014-10-31T20:03:01Z jasom: CrazyWoods: define "complex"
2014-10-31T20:03:31Z jasom: CrazyWoods: the one place it's not good is if you need a lot of throughput between the gui and your application logic (e.g. if you want to do lisp powered animations)
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2014-10-31T20:05:21Z CrazyWoods: it seems ltk are common use
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2014-10-31T20:07:10Z tokenrove: CrazyWoods: i used SDL and OpenGL for a fairly complex cross-platform GUI, but more in the style of an application like Blender.  i wouldn't want to take that approach for something that's more about forms and menus.
2014-10-31T20:07:27Z CrazyWoods: pjb: GNUStep are objective-c library, isn't it?
2014-10-31T20:07:32Z pjb: CrazyWoods: the point is that the question of cross platform GUI is not related to Common Lisp.
2014-10-31T20:07:38Z pjb: Yes, GNUstep = OpenStep = Cocoa
2014-10-31T20:07:51Z pjb: CrazyWoods: what cross platform GUI would you use?
2014-10-31T20:08:34Z CrazyWoods: pjb: i have used gtk & qt for python
2014-10-31T20:08:37Z ack006: finally got cmucl packaging for arch linux sorted out
2014-10-31T20:08:55Z ack006: it appears that there are very very few, if any, distros out there that get it *right*
2014-10-31T20:08:57Z pjb: CrazyWoods:  there are bindings to gtk and qt for Common Lisp.
2014-10-31T20:09:55Z CrazyWoods: tokenrove: just using SDL and OpenGL, how about the menu checkbox widget?
2014-10-31T20:10:31Z ack006: most forget to a) install sources or provide a source package, b) properly configure search-list in site-init.lisp
2014-10-31T20:10:53Z tokenrove: CrazyWoods: "the menu checkbox widget"?  there were menus, etc, but all the widget drawing was implemented from scratch, in the "immediate mode GUI" style.
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2014-10-31T20:13:51Z CrazyWoods: tokenrove: that would be a lot of work to do
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2014-10-31T20:15:33Z tokenrove: CrazyWoods: that depends on the nature of your interface.  that's what i said in the first place.
2014-10-31T20:16:41Z CrazyWoods: tokenrove: can you show me your project?
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2014-10-31T20:18:16Z tokenrove: CrazyWoods: nope, sorry.  there's a chance some of that stuff will be open sourced in the future.
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2014-10-31T20:18:45Z CrazyWoods: tokenrove: ok :)
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2014-10-31T21:31:57Z Denommus: I just updated the stable cl-launch on AUR, since it was orphan
2014-10-31T21:31:58Z Denommus: 4.1
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2014-10-31T21:43:48Z devon: Do you get this error (ql:quickload "sclf") ... Error: There is no package named "CLOS" .
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2014-10-31T21:52:08Z jasom: no, but I do get an error when it tries to redefine +whitespace+
2014-10-31T21:52:42Z jasom: someone naughty used defconstant on a list
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2014-10-31T22:11:44Z Xach: i should probably either drop those or request patches
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2014-10-31T22:42:02Z Xach: dang it.
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2014-10-31T22:51:23Z cpt_othello: anyone mind working with me through an algorithm to remove the first character atom from a list? e.g ((a b) c d) -> ((b) c d)?
2014-10-31T22:52:06Z Grue`: great, I somehow managed to delete all untracked files from my git directory
2014-10-31T22:53:07Z prxq: cpt_othello: atom or character?
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2014-10-31T22:53:58Z cpt_othello: prxq, I want to say atom but didn't want to confuse it with a nested list being what would show up if i did something like (car L)
2014-10-31T22:55:52Z cpt_othello: The hw is restricting to solely using recursion isntead of looping. I can't even seem to think of a decent base case to end the recursion.
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2014-10-31T22:57:05Z cpt_othello: say I had the list ((a b) c d). I want a function that would output ((b) c d). As of now the only way i can think of gives me (c d) since I've starting the new list with (car(cdr L))
2014-10-31T22:58:13Z Bicyclidine: (cons (rest (first list)) (rest list))
2014-10-31T22:58:39Z Bicyclidine: or are you trying to do it with arbitrarily nested lists
2014-10-31T22:58:43Z Bicyclidine: homework problems are so bizarre
2014-10-31T22:58:53Z cpt_othello: arbitrarily nested lists
2014-10-31T22:59:00Z cpt_othello: I wish i could do just that :(
2014-10-31T22:59:47Z Bicyclidine: then you should have a function that checks the type of the first element of the list, and calls itself recursive if it is a list
2014-10-31T22:59:50Z Bicyclidine: recursively
2014-10-31T23:00:04Z cpt_othello: also restricted to only using: 	defun, cond, cons, car, cdr, null, eq, listp, atom, symbolp, +, -,
2014-10-31T23:00:05Z cpt_othello: <, and > and the logic operators. plus whatever helper functions I might think up
2014-10-31T23:00:35Z cpt_othello: oh, damn
2014-10-31T23:00:49Z cpt_othello: maybe hold on
2014-10-31T23:01:04Z Grue`: it's a trivial problem, 2 cases first element atom -> return cdr, first element list -> return (cons (your-function (first list)) (cdr list))
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2014-10-31T23:01:31Z pjb: cpt_othello: you have enough operators to rewrite Common Lisp.  So the solution is: 1- implement a complete Common Lisp. 2- write the solution to your problem in Common Lisp.
2014-10-31T23:02:28Z cpt_othello: pjb, so just copy over all headers and use my own names for them. got it
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2014-10-31T23:04:28Z prxq: cpt_othello: you could just try thinking, you know?
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2014-10-31T23:04:43Z cpt_othello: proq, 2hard4me
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2014-10-31T23:06:01Z cpt_othello: had this thing since monday, only got 4/8 to work as intended >_>
2014-10-31T23:06:14Z pjb: cpt_othello: first ((a b) c d) -> ((b) c d) is not an example of removing the first atom of a list.
2014-10-31T23:06:22Z pjb: the first atom of ((a b) c d) is c, not a.
2014-10-31T23:06:49Z cpt_othello: Define	the	function	'rest-list'	that	takes	a	list	L	and	returns	a	list	that removes	the	first	
2014-10-31T23:06:49Z cpt_othello: atom.	Examples:
2014-10-31T23:06:51Z pjb: a is the left-most atom of the cons tree ((a b) c d)  (considering car to be left and cdr right).
2014-10-31T23:06:56Z Grue`: what were the other problems, add 2 and 2?
2014-10-31T23:07:22Z cpt_othello: Grue, not quite. one involved solving the theory of relativity with respect to apples and oranges
2014-10-31T23:07:31Z prxq: cpt_othello: sit down in a quiet room and try to figure it out. It really is very simple.
2014-10-31T23:07:36Z pjb: cpt_othello: so you have to decide which you want to implement, correct the specifications, and write the solution.
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2014-10-31T23:11:45Z Grue`: great, now sbcl is crashing for no reason. strange things are happening today
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2014-10-31T23:27:09Z Grue`: ok, managed to reproduce it (jsown:to-json* '(:obj ("type" . :test))) causes stack overflow, which crashes SBCL on Windows
2014-10-31T23:27:14Z Grue`: not my fault this time!
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2014-10-31T23:37:27Z cpt_othello: is there a way to get a function to not return anything?
2014-10-31T23:37:49Z pjb: yes.
2014-10-31T23:38:09Z pjb: But it's not in your list.
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2014-10-31T23:39:02Z cpt_othello: got it. is there a way to a cond evaluate as true but not return anything?
2014-10-31T23:39:17Z pjb: (values) return nothing.
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2014-10-31T23:44:57Z Grue`: damn, apparently at (safety 0) (first :keyword) isn't even an error
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2014-10-31T23:45:15Z pjb: Grue`: depends on the implementation. In clisp it is.
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2014-10-31T23:45:44Z pjb: clisp is the best implementation!
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2014-10-31T23:46:40Z Ryan_Burnside: Plus you get a fancy ascii art picture when it starts up.
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2014-10-31T23:46:46Z Ryan_Burnside: That has to give it cool points.
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2014-10-31T23:47:03Z Grue`: I wonder if there's a way to override libraries' safety proclamations
2014-10-31T23:47:23Z pjb: Depends on the library. I did that for cl-ppcre.
2014-10-31T23:47:29Z Grue`: because this thing is a walking death trap
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2014-10-31T23:48:58Z pjb: Here is what I did: http://paste.lisp.org/+33AQ
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2014-10-31T23:49:59Z pjb: This works because the library get its optimize levels from a defvar variable.  So you can pre-define it (notice that it only works on implementations that sane  behavior for defpackage redefinitions.
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2014-10-31T23:50:29Z pjb: Grue`: the fact is that it's a bitch, optimize should be forbidden from libraries.  Just patch them!
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2014-10-31T23:51:07Z Ryan_Burnside: Perhaps there is a way to programmatically test all the links in cliki and mark the dead ones? There is a HUGE amount of decay stuck in there.
2014-10-31T23:51:45Z pjb: There is.
2014-10-31T23:52:20Z pjb: Also, this is a wiki: update the links!
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