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2014-10-14T01:15:10Z papachan: hi
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2014-10-14T02:41:58Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2014-10-14T02:42:18Z ack006: Good morning :-)
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2014-10-14T02:47:30Z beach: papachan: New here?
2014-10-14T02:47:45Z kanru: good morning
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2014-10-14T02:48:58Z papachan: beach yes
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2014-10-14T02:50:47Z beach: drmeister: Novermber sounds good.
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2014-10-14T02:51:37Z beach: drmeister: Like I said, I am currently writing unit tests for the AST->MIR translation, but I am not quite finished writing tests for the form->AST translation.
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2014-10-14T02:51:46Z beach: I just got tired of it. :)
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2014-10-14T02:52:17Z beach: A few tests every day from now until November, and I should have a larg part of it covered.
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2014-10-14T02:54:19Z drmeister: Awesome.  I saw some mention of an MIR interpreter - do you have that in place?
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2014-10-14T02:54:53Z drmeister: Testing
2014-10-14T02:54:55Z beach: That's how I am testing the AST->MIR translation.
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2014-10-14T02:55:18Z beach: So, yes, I am developing that one at the same time.
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2014-10-14T02:56:03Z drmeister: beach: Hello and that sounds great
2014-10-14T02:56:24Z drmeister: Test
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2014-10-14T02:56:38Z beach: drmeister: What are you testing?
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2014-10-14T02:57:16Z drmeister: Beach: Hello and that sounds great
2014-10-14T02:57:33Z beach: Yes, I saw that. :)
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2014-10-14T02:59:48Z beach: So I have both an AST interpreter and a MIR interpreter.
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2014-10-14T03:01:30Z beach is guessing drmeister has problems with his connection. 
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2014-10-14T03:02:40Z drmeister: Yes, connection problems.
2014-10-14T03:03:10Z beach: Is it fixed?
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2014-10-14T03:07:35Z drmeister: I think so.
2014-10-14T03:07:43Z beach: Good!
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2014-10-14T03:12:23Z drmeister: So I'll be able to match the output of running the interpreters to the output generated by the compiled code - excellent.
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2014-10-14T03:12:41Z beach: Yes, that's the point.
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2014-10-14T03:14:53Z drmeister: Yes, and I have a lot of experience doing that with my interpreter and compiler.
2014-10-14T03:15:47Z beach: Matching outputs?
2014-10-14T03:16:35Z drmeister: Yes and inserting print statements in the code and matching the logs.
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2014-10-14T03:17:46Z beach: The MIR interpreter can come in handy in order to check some transformations on the graph as well.
2014-10-14T03:18:18Z beach: I am not sure how many transformations I should implement before letting you have it.
2014-10-14T03:18:53Z beach: I guess you don't really need any, do you?  Get something running first.  Then take advantage of optimizations.
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2014-10-14T04:07:50Z drmeister: Transformations are MIR->MIR - correct? If so, I don't think I need many transformations. We can always add more later.
2014-10-14T04:08:08Z beach: Yes, many are needed, but perhaps not right away.
2014-10-14T04:08:35Z beach: So we agree.
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2014-10-14T08:40:34Z moore33: |3b|: Do you have any thoughts about using finalization to clean up GL objects? Worthwhile, or a pain in the rear?
2014-10-14T08:42:00Z |3b|: risky?
2014-10-14T08:42:29Z |3b|: no guarantee it will ever get finalized, so might leak large objects anyway.... better to clean things up explicitly
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2014-10-14T08:43:05Z moore33: |3b| First off, one surely can't destroy the object in the finalization code; it's gotta go on a list that will be processed when a context is current.
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2014-10-14T08:45:13Z moore33: Just thinking about how to keep a lisp flavor to a scene graph-like library. I'm thinking that when a (CLOS) object is removed from the scene, all associated GL objects would be destroyed.
2014-10-14T08:45:27Z |3b|: also, things could be still active in GL when they are destroyed without extra tracking
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2014-10-14T08:47:03Z moore33: |3b| I think that's actually OK; you can e.g. destroy a texture in GL even if it's still being used to render something.
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2014-10-14T10:40:36Z PortablePuffin: hey
2014-10-14T10:41:19Z PortablePuffin: I am having some trouble to get cffi to load a DLL when using slime
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2014-10-14T10:41:51Z PortablePuffin: I've tried putting the DLL in the directory where I start slime but no gamr
2014-10-14T10:41:55Z PortablePuffin: game
2014-10-14T10:42:21Z PortablePuffin: and I have tried putting it next to the .lisp
2014-10-14T10:42:48Z PortablePuffin: and I have even tried putting it next to Emacs.exe haha
2014-10-14T10:43:04Z PortablePuffin: anyone know how to deal with this?
2014-10-14T10:43:27Z stassats: it needs to be somewhere in PATH
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2014-10-14T10:43:37Z PortablePuffin: oh?
2014-10-14T10:43:58Z PortablePuffin: You would think that next to emacs.exe is on path
2014-10-14T10:44:07Z stassats: i wouldn't
2014-10-14T10:44:09Z PortablePuffin: since that's where I had to put grwp
2014-10-14T10:44:31Z stassats: what is the actual error message?
2014-10-14T10:44:41Z stassats: it maybe a dll for the wrong architecture
2014-10-14T10:44:43Z PortablePuffin: on my windows path or some sort of slime or emacs path
2014-10-14T10:44:50Z PortablePuffin: hmmmm
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2014-10-14T10:45:03Z PortablePuffin: could be that Emacs is built for 32 bit
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2014-10-14T10:45:14Z stassats: emacs?
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2014-10-14T10:45:15Z PortablePuffin: and this is a 64 bit DLL and ccl
2014-10-14T10:45:24Z stassats: emacs is unrelated for this at all
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2014-10-14T10:45:33Z PortablePuffin: well I mean
2014-10-14T10:45:44Z PortablePuffin: it would run slime as 32 bit right
2014-10-14T10:45:51Z stassats: you are confused
2014-10-14T10:46:04Z PortablePuffin: and maybe it can't then use 64 bit stuff or something I dunno
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2014-10-14T10:46:22Z PortablePuffin: but I built the DLL myself and it is the right architecture
2014-10-14T10:46:33Z PortablePuffin: it works when I am not running it in alime
2014-10-14T10:46:35Z PortablePuffin: slime
2014-10-14T10:46:55Z PortablePuffin: Yes I am. that's why I joined :p
2014-10-14T10:46:56Z stassats: then the path is different in that case
2014-10-14T10:47:29Z PortablePuffin: the windows path?
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2014-10-14T10:50:53Z PortablePuffin: guess I can try to add the directory to PATH with setenv in emacs then
2014-10-14T10:51:06Z stassats: or in ccl
2014-10-14T10:51:23Z stassats: you could also give CFFI the full path
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2014-10-14T10:52:43Z PortablePuffin: well I am not the one calling cffi, it is a ql pkg
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2014-10-14T10:53:24Z PortablePuffin: but yeah I can try in ccl-init.lisp or smth
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2014-10-14T10:53:42Z PortablePuffin: is it setenv and getenv in cl too?
2014-10-14T10:53:52Z stassats: it's none
2014-10-14T10:53:58Z stassats: but it is in ccl
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2014-10-14T10:55:09Z PortablePuffin: will have to look up how to set path in ccl the
2014-10-14T10:55:10Z PortablePuffin: then
2014-10-14T10:55:33Z PortablePuffin: unless you know :p
2014-10-14T10:55:48Z stassats: i know, but don't remember
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2014-10-14T10:56:36Z PortablePuffin: okay well then at least it is possible
2014-10-14T10:56:43Z stassats: something like (ccl:setenv "PATH" (format nil "~a;~a" (ccl:getenv "PATH") "/your.dll")) would be my guess
2014-10-14T10:56:54Z PortablePuffin: will check the manual when. I arrive at my destination
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2014-10-14T10:57:46Z PortablePuffin: okay thanks :D
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2014-10-14T13:00:51Z stacksmith: I can't load the damned page.
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2014-10-14T13:02:05Z Xach: What happens when you try?
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2014-10-14T13:04:23Z stacksmith: Ok, I got it.  Morbid curiosity.
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2014-10-14T15:08:52Z nyef: G'morning all.
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2014-10-14T15:09:08Z nyef: The spambot today is "tursee".
2014-10-14T15:09:35Z jebes_schoool: does lispbuilder-sdl support gl-set-attribute still? I can't seem to get it to work.
2014-10-14T15:09:55Z ChanServ has set mode +o Xach
2014-10-14T15:09:57Z Xach has set mode +b *!*poo@80.30.144.*
2014-10-14T15:10:00Z tursee [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has been kicked from #lisp by Xach (tursee)
2014-10-14T15:10:02Z Xach has set mode -o Xach
2014-10-14T15:12:42Z nyef: You know, we could probably build an anti-spambot-bot...
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2014-10-14T15:13:24Z stassats: did you establish the pattern?
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2014-10-14T15:15:43Z nyef: The pattern would be to sign into the channel periodically, say something, and then kickban anyone who sends spam.
2014-10-14T15:16:03Z stassats: that's what i thought, but that sounds like spam on its own
2014-10-14T15:16:16Z nyef: Yeah, there are drawbacks.
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2014-10-14T15:18:34Z InvalidCo: you could replace the bait with something else
2014-10-14T15:18:38Z InvalidCo: "lisp fact of the day"
2014-10-14T15:18:43Z InvalidCo: to make it seem less spamm-y
2014-10-14T15:18:54Z H4ns: InvalidCo: you got one job
2014-10-14T15:19:03Z InvalidCo: H4ns: what
2014-10-14T15:19:13Z InvalidCo: :)
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2014-10-14T17:11:59Z beach: Good evening everyone!
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2014-10-14T17:14:41Z ahungry: hi
2014-10-14T17:15:03Z ahungry: What does everyone use for unit tests (if you do them)?  Looking at lisp-unit/stefil/fiveam
2014-10-14T17:15:09Z ahungry: any other good ones?
2014-10-14T17:15:25Z beach: I occasionally use lisp-unit.
2014-10-14T17:15:28Z oGMo: i like checkl (because i wrote it) and it integrates with 5am
2014-10-14T17:15:39Z oGMo: (optionally)
2014-10-14T17:15:52Z ahungry: nice, I'll look it up
2014-10-14T17:17:36Z beach: I usually find it's not worthwhile using one.
2014-10-14T17:18:27Z oGMo: that's partially why i wrote checkl
2014-10-14T17:18:34Z nyef: Hello beach.
2014-10-14T17:18:43Z InvalidCo: http://paste.dy.fi/Pph
2014-10-14T17:18:58Z beach: oGMo: So it is better than the others?
2014-10-14T17:19:00Z oGMo: i.e. i test code as i write it, and it'd be nice if that was sortof automated, and if i wanted to keep those around later then OK
2014-10-14T17:19:01Z InvalidCo: tell me what you think
2014-10-14T17:19:18Z nyef: Having unit tests is nice, but the overall driver is such a small piece of code that it's simple enough to just build your own for whatever project.
2014-10-14T17:19:21Z oGMo: beach: that depends on how you write code .. it's minimalist
2014-10-14T17:19:28Z beach: what nyef said.
2014-10-14T17:19:51Z oGMo: sortof
2014-10-14T17:20:28Z beach: InvalidCo: I wish you would mention a phrase about what you are posting so as to save everyone from clicking on something that might nit interest them.
2014-10-14T17:20:29Z oGMo: i mean, i write code by writing a function then seeing if what i just wrote works, and checkl just remembers the result so i can see if it's still working when i come back alter
2014-10-14T17:20:32Z oGMo: "later"
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2014-10-14T17:21:12Z oGMo: then if i want to run a bunch of stuff i can wave a wand and it becomes 5am
2014-10-14T17:21:13Z InvalidCo: beach: you may wish and you may want
2014-10-14T17:21:22Z InvalidCo: but I want you to tell me is what you think of that macro
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2014-10-14T17:21:48Z beach: Oh, it's a macro.  You could have said that.  Who wrote it?
2014-10-14T17:21:53Z InvalidCo: me
2014-10-14T17:21:56Z InvalidCo: just now
2014-10-14T17:21:57Z beach: You could have said that too.
2014-10-14T17:22:17Z InvalidCo: I think you are avoiding the question right now
2014-10-14T17:22:21Z InvalidCo: what do you think of the macro?
2014-10-14T17:22:49Z InvalidCo: the basic idea is to reduce code duplication in areas where there is an algorithm for handling, for example, widget positioning
2014-10-14T17:22:59Z InvalidCo: and it has to declared for both vertical and horizontal instances
2014-10-14T17:23:16Z Xach: InvalidCo: Please don't post context-free links.
2014-10-14T17:23:30Z Xach: InvalidCo: It would be easier to think something about the macro if some example use was demonstrated.
2014-10-14T17:23:46Z InvalidCo: where the only change is the reversal of a few select variables (x,y,width,height)
2014-10-14T17:23:48Z beach: That reminds me of the dada macro of McCLIM.
2014-10-14T17:24:21Z nyef: ... Was that the one used for the horizontal/vertical layout control?
2014-10-14T17:24:36Z Xach got to use l1sp.org for clim references for the first time today!
2014-10-14T17:24:39Z rme: Here's a cl-who question.   Can you specify the tag as a parameter?   e.g., in (:h1 (write-some-output stream)), can I parameterize :h1?  I might want :h1 to be :h2, :h3. etc., based on some property of the thing to be displated.
2014-10-14T17:24:45Z InvalidCo: beach: cool, I didn't realize this had been done before https://github.com/antifuchs/mcclim/blob/master/panes.lisp#L431
2014-10-14T17:25:07Z beach: nyef: I think so.  My memory is not so great though, so I could be wrong.
2014-10-14T17:25:24Z InvalidCo: of course, walking the tree seems like it's probably a better solution than macrolet+macrosymlet
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2014-10-14T17:25:55Z Xach: rme: no
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2014-10-14T17:26:47Z ahungry: How do you guys organize tests?  If I want to add some tests for my "glyphs" package, I'm thinking of making a glyphs/tests directory.  Do I have the content in there a separate package to be quickloaded?  or write tests in a tests.lisp file and just include that in the components portion of the main package
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2014-10-14T17:27:10Z Hache_: rme: tried with clip? http://shinmera.github.io/clip/
2014-10-14T17:27:26Z beach: ahungry: I use a different package and a different ASDF system.
2014-10-14T17:27:31Z rme: Bah.  Libraries.  If you want anything done, you have to do it yourself.
2014-10-14T17:27:39Z Xach: ahungry: I sometimes see people add a separate foo-test.asd, and then define a test-op for the "main" system.
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2014-10-14T17:28:15Z ahungry: Thanks guys, sounds like a good idea
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2014-10-14T17:28:35Z InvalidCo: rme: cl-who does extensive macro expansion...I don't remember the details, but you could put the :h1s inside a case-form
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2014-10-14T17:28:49Z InvalidCo: just if you put the :h1s in a (htm) form
2014-10-14T17:28:54Z nyef: ahungry: I have a shell script that kicks off a fresh lisp image that then compiles each of my test files and their dependencies, and then runs the test cases.
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2014-10-14T17:29:13Z rme: It's no big deal.  I can print HTML directly.
2014-10-14T17:29:21Z InvalidCo: so you would do (case header-size (1 (htm :h1 text)) (2 (htm :h2 text))...
2014-10-14T17:29:32Z InvalidCo: oops
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2014-10-14T17:29:37Z InvalidCo: (htm (:h1 text))
2014-10-14T17:31:20Z Shinmera: Hache_: Not sure why you brought up clip in this context as it's a rather different thing than cl-who.
2014-10-14T17:31:47Z Hache_: as a html templating library
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2014-10-14T17:32:35Z Hache_: never tried
2014-10-14T17:32:43Z Hache_: but there is a 'as' attribute
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2014-10-14T17:32:58Z Hache_: AS
2014-10-14T17:32:58Z Hache_: Simply changes that node's tag-name to the value of this attribute.
2014-10-14T17:33:05Z Shinmera: With clip you'd just put the tag in you want.
2014-10-14T17:33:16Z Shinmera: But w/e, it's unrelated to rme's problem.
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2014-10-14T17:36:04Z Hache_: ok
2014-10-14T17:36:23Z Hache_: also seems that (clip:process-to-string "<header as='header-type'></header>" :header-type :h1) doesnt work as i expected
2014-10-14T17:37:12Z Shinmera: The attribute value is not resolved
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2014-10-14T17:37:43Z Shinmera: the 'as' is mostly useful for renaming templating blocks such as c:noop
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2014-10-14T17:39:08Z Shinmera: Though I suppose it is counter-intuitive that it doesn't resolve. I'll consider changing that.
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2014-10-14T17:40:27Z Hache_: ever considered having something like emb:*function-package* in clip?
2014-10-14T17:40:53Z Hache_: (does it have something like that?)
2014-10-14T17:40:58Z Shinmera: I'm not sure what you mean
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2014-10-14T17:46:19Z Hache_: Shinmera: http://paste.lisp.org/display/144033
2014-10-14T17:46:42Z Shinmera: Ah, right.
2014-10-14T17:47:00Z Shinmera: You can do that by binding *package* to whatever package you have.
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2014-10-14T17:47:44Z jasom: man I really wish with-html-output bound a special to the stream it's outputting to; that would make writing the macro rme wants trivial
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2014-10-14T17:53:44Z jasom: rme: http://paste.lisp.org/display/144034  <-- that will do what you want, but you need the name of the first argument to cl-who:with-html-output (i.e. the variable name for the stream)
2014-10-14T17:55:38Z jasom: rme: just annotated it to fix a minor bug
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2014-10-14T18:00:04Z rme: jasom: Thanks, but in my current situation, it's quite simple just to print the HTML directly.
2014-10-14T18:00:39Z jasom: rme: in case you ever need to have a generic "print a dynamically generated tag" it's a decent pattern to know though.
2014-10-14T18:00:54Z jasom: a few refinements and you can match the indentation with cl-who as well
2014-10-14T18:01:06Z Grue`: seems like it would've been easier to expand right into with-html-output with the right symbol put in
2014-10-14T18:01:31Z Grue`: `(with-html-output (,stream) (,tag ,@b))
2014-10-14T18:01:41Z jasom: Grue`: that only works if the tag is known at macroexpand time
2014-10-14T18:02:25Z Grue`: yeah, i didnt think it through
2014-10-14T18:02:39Z jasom: (cl-who:with-html-output-to-string (s) (hn ((read) s) (:p "hi"))) <-- that will work with my macro
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2014-10-14T18:03:19Z jasom: (though don't try it on the first version, because I pasted it before reading it over a second time)
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2014-10-14T18:08:28Z Grue`: i actually thought cl-who has a function equivalent to its macro (like postmodern does), but it doesn't appear to be so
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2014-10-14T18:11:54Z shka: cl-markup is doing that
2014-10-14T18:12:20Z shka: i was using cl-who but it was counterintuitive
2014-10-14T18:12:26Z shka: so i switched to cl-markup
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2014-10-14T18:14:15Z Grue`: i'm trying to using closure-templates. though "trying to use" could be better described as "procrastinating"
2014-10-14T18:15:56Z Xach: cl-who's rules are pretty simple. it's not *too* hard to learn them and then be able to predict how it will act for a given input. of course, if the rules don't support what you want, that doesn't help a ton.
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2014-10-14T18:18:28Z ahungry: anyone know what generates this error?  http://sprunge.us/aPgg
2014-10-14T18:18:39Z ahungry: It happens when I first start slime and ql:quickload :stefil
2014-10-14T18:19:40Z attila_lendvai: ahungry: a backtrace would help
2014-10-14T18:19:56Z attila_lendvai: ...at http://paste.lisp.org
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2014-10-14T18:21:05Z ahungry: attila_lendvai: here http://paste.lisp.org/display/144036
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2014-10-14T18:21:50Z attila_lendvai: ahungry: navigate to the --more-- and update the paste please
2014-10-14T18:22:06Z ahungry: http://paste.lisp.org/display/144037
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2014-10-14T18:23:32Z ahungry: I just updated slime and see on 10/10 Luis Oliveira had a commit "Handle the swank-backend rename in a few more places", wonder if that has anything to do with it
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2014-10-14T18:25:05Z attila_lendvai doesn't know, he's lagging behind on the recent changes
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2014-10-14T18:25:21Z attila_lendvai: Xach may know more about this issue
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2014-10-14T18:26:49Z Xach: ahungry: are you using slime from git?
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2014-10-14T18:40:35Z pjb: nyef: a bot could give the hour, or the latest lisp news (planet.lisp.org) or something.
2014-10-14T18:41:13Z pjb: or the latest hackernews.
2014-10-14T18:44:25Z ahungry: Xach: yes, slime from git
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2014-10-14T18:46:48Z Xach: ahungry: does the latest release have the same problem? if not, maybe it's a bug to report.
2014-10-14T18:47:42Z ahungry: I guess I'll pop on over to their git repo and see what they say, the 10/10 update seems to sound similar just briefly glancing at it (renaming swank-backend to swank/backend)
2014-10-14T18:47:45Z ahungry: wonder if it broke something else
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2014-10-14T18:49:19Z ahungry: Does paste.lisp.org have any APIs for bypassing the captcha?  I have used sprunge.us in the past as you can send text straight to it via curl and the CLI, but paste.lisp.org would seem to work much nicer for that
2014-10-14T18:49:38Z ahungry: I think (if it doesnt exist) an emacs plugin or small function to send current buffer contents to the site would be sweet
2014-10-14T18:50:32Z nyef: ahungry: IIRC, the XML-RPC interface to lisppaste was disabled because a small group of people (using the term loosely) were abusing it.
2014-10-14T18:51:22Z ahungry: ahh lame, sour apples spoiling it for the bunch
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2014-10-14T19:06:05Z ahungry: Hm ok, so far the only package I can find that breaks on the ql like that is stefil, so it may be a stefil issue
2014-10-14T19:06:30Z ahungry: although choosing #2 to accept it as succesful anyways still seems to let stefil run without issue
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2014-10-14T19:39:05Z copec: I wonder if anyone here has seen this? https://github.com/slime/slime/issues/54
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2014-10-14T19:40:02Z copec: I'm seeing it in emacs 24
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2014-10-14T19:53:32Z wasamasa: 24 is pretty general
2014-10-14T19:53:41Z wasamasa: there have been major changes between 24.1, 24.3 and 24.4
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2014-10-14T20:34:19Z copec: "GNU Emacs 24.3.1"
2014-10-14T20:34:38Z copec: (It's on a test gentoo vm)
2014-10-14T20:35:02Z boggles: (All gentoo's are a test vm)
2014-10-14T20:35:09Z copec: hehehe
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2014-10-14T21:37:21Z copec: I think i'll have to rabbit-hole this one myself
2014-10-14T21:37:55Z copec: (everything's a rabbit hole when you don't know what the hell you're doing :-)
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2014-10-14T21:41:22Z nyef: ... Hasenpfeffer ?
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