2014-09-22T00:02:57Z zygentoma quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2014-09-22T00:04:27Z zRecursi` joined #lisp
2014-09-22T00:06:19Z rme quit (Quit: rme)
2014-09-22T00:09:07Z Greyhat joined #lisp
2014-09-22T00:09:39Z tadni joined #lisp
2014-09-22T00:21:24Z drmeister_: Whee, Java might get a REPL.  http://www.javaworld.com/article/2601433/java-language/programmers-could-get-repl-in-official-java.html
2014-09-22T00:23:23Z jkaye joined #lisp
2014-09-22T00:26:27Z Svetlana quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T00:26:33Z Greyhat quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T00:27:10Z Greyhat joined #lisp
2014-09-22T00:27:12Z theos quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T00:27:17Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-09-22T00:27:21Z Hilbert joined #lisp
2014-09-22T00:27:47Z jkaye quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-09-22T00:27:59Z Adlai: a proper condition system would be nice, if they're walking in that direction
2014-09-22T00:28:23Z Adlai: and macros too. on third thought... let's include ABCL in java 2.0!
2014-09-22T00:28:23Z theos joined #lisp
2014-09-22T00:28:25Z Hilbert quit (Client Quit)
2014-09-22T00:28:25Z Greyhat quit (Client Quit)
2014-09-22T00:29:16Z resttime: javaworld, for some odd reason i rememeber being linked this http://www.javaworld.com/article/2078610/java-concurrency/functional-programming--a-step-backward.html
2014-09-22T00:30:42Z gryAway joined #lisp
2014-09-22T00:31:36Z eugenee: resttime: that is one shitty article
2014-09-22T00:31:55Z resttime: that's why i remember it so hard
2014-09-22T00:32:19Z resttime: everytime 'javaworld' i remember that artivle
2014-09-22T00:32:24Z eugenee: they are working on pauseless GC in openjdk though, thats kinda cool
2014-09-22T00:34:21Z ndrei joined #lisp
2014-09-22T00:35:18Z PuercoPop: eugenee: I think they talked about it on StrangeLoop this year
2014-09-22T00:38:57Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-09-22T00:39:11Z Adlai: source about this?
2014-09-22T00:39:27Z Adlai doesn't really understand how GCs work but they're interesting to read about and pretend to
2014-09-22T00:40:19Z eugenee: http://rkennke.wordpress.com/2013/06/10/shenandoah-a-pauseless-gc-for-openjdk/
2014-09-22T00:41:04Z eugenee: http://openjdk.java.net/jeps/189
2014-09-22T00:43:55Z jusss joined #lisp
2014-09-22T00:45:49Z devon: PJB: pillton: Thanks for your help
2014-09-22T00:45:49Z minion: devon, memo from pillton: There is BASIC-BINARY-IPC. It supports IPv4 and local sockets on posix and windows platforms.
2014-09-22T00:46:30Z phserr quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T00:46:43Z Adlai: eugenee: thanks
2014-09-22T00:47:15Z varjag_ quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2014-09-22T00:50:32Z katco joined #lisp
2014-09-22T00:51:27Z pjb: devon: I didn't understand your last explaination before you left.
2014-09-22T00:51:34Z Amaan quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2014-09-22T00:55:14Z PuercoPop: Adlai: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5U8zYgAuWI
2014-09-22T00:55:40Z Adlai flails about in helpfulness overdose!
2014-09-22T00:56:24Z Petit_Dejeuner_: drmeister_, That's funny. C++ already has a REPL, doesn't it?
2014-09-22T00:56:36Z Petit_Dejeuner_: It's not standard, but still.
2014-09-22T00:57:17Z stardiviner quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-09-22T00:57:44Z Petit_Dejeuner_: Adlai, I've been told C11 (ro maybe it was a different standard?) requires the preprocessor to know about types. They're slowly adding macros.
2014-09-22T00:58:01Z Adlai: C11 or C++11?
2014-09-22T00:58:06Z drmeister_: Are you referring to "Cling"?  http://root.cern.ch/drupal/content/cling
2014-09-22T00:58:19Z Adlai: i'd believe that about a new C++ standard, but for C that doesn't sound likely at all
2014-09-22T00:58:27Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2014-09-22T01:01:22Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-09-22T01:01:40Z Petit_Dejeuner_: drmeister_, yes
2014-09-22T01:02:14Z Petit_Dejeuner_: Adlai, I heard it in passing. Either way, I wouldn't want to be maintaining a compiler after hearing that.
2014-09-22T01:06:11Z zacts quit (Quit: leaving)
2014-09-22T01:06:19Z innertracks joined #lisp
2014-09-22T01:07:15Z Bazzie quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T01:10:08Z Adlai: anybody familiar with Shenendoah? (the GC she's describing in the talk)
2014-09-22T01:10:18Z stardiviner joined #lisp
2014-09-22T01:10:50Z zacts joined #lisp
2014-09-22T01:12:59Z eugenee quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-09-22T01:16:37Z heddwch quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T01:16:55Z drmeister_: What's the deal with Shenendoah?  It's a good garbage collector?
2014-09-22T01:17:28Z heddwch joined #lisp
2014-09-22T01:17:47Z Longlius quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T01:18:16Z vanila: Where can i learn about all the lisp compiler optimizations?
2014-09-22T01:18:21Z Quadrescence joined #lisp
2014-09-22T01:19:04Z drmeister_: vanila: They are scattered across different books and papers.  beach is the best person to ask.
2014-09-22T01:19:42Z vanila: I don't want to bother beach too much but I learned a lot talking to him already!
2014-09-22T01:20:15Z Longlius joined #lisp
2014-09-22T01:21:12Z drmeister_: That Shenendoah talk - I think the other company she mentioned at the start is Ravenbrook.
2014-09-22T01:21:55Z drmeister_: At 3:23
2014-09-22T01:23:00Z Quadrescence: ;;;; THE END ;;;;
2014-09-22T01:23:02Z drmeister_: Using memory protection is very expensive - they disabled it for me.
2014-09-22T01:23:13Z jkaye joined #lisp
2014-09-22T01:23:45Z stardiviner quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-09-22T01:25:41Z xishvai joined #lisp
2014-09-22T01:27:35Z Adlai: no specific deal about it, just a confusing bit in the talk that got explained upon rewatching parts
2014-09-22T01:27:56Z jkaye quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-09-22T01:35:38Z Amaan joined #lisp
2014-09-22T01:37:08Z drmeister_: Shenandoah is written in Java - is that correct?
2014-09-22T01:38:12Z girrig quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-09-22T01:38:45Z girrig joined #lisp
2014-09-22T01:38:54Z jkaye joined #lisp
2014-09-22T01:43:40Z stardiviner joined #lisp
2014-09-22T01:44:15Z harish joined #lisp
2014-09-22T01:46:41Z zacts quit (Quit: leaving)
2014-09-22T01:46:55Z jkaye quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T01:47:48Z jkaye joined #lisp
2014-09-22T01:55:35Z stardiviner quit (Quit: my website: http://stardiviner.dyndns-blog.com/)
2014-09-22T01:56:23Z stardiviner joined #lisp
2014-09-22T01:57:19Z jkaye quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T01:57:33Z nisstyre quit (Changing host)
2014-09-22T01:57:34Z nisstyre joined #lisp
2014-09-22T01:57:52Z jkaye joined #lisp
2014-09-22T02:02:47Z jkaye quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-09-22T02:08:41Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks)
2014-09-22T02:16:11Z c74d quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T02:18:36Z Adlai peeks, expecting to see C
2014-09-22T02:18:48Z c74d joined #lisp
2014-09-22T02:21:23Z stardiviner quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-09-22T02:21:26Z Adlai: source is taking forever to download. I'd imagine C though, since it involves building a separate jvm
2014-09-22T02:23:10Z kanru joined #lisp
2014-09-22T02:25:44Z zacts joined #lisp
2014-09-22T02:26:28Z klltkr quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2014-09-22T02:31:04Z Quadrescence quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2014-09-22T02:33:29Z phao quit (Quit: Leaving)
2014-09-22T02:34:37Z stardiviner joined #lisp
2014-09-22T02:38:35Z marvimias joined #lisp
2014-09-22T02:41:18Z Bazzie joined #lisp
2014-09-22T02:41:19Z loke: drmeister: Your project is open sourced yet? :-)
2014-09-22T02:50:43Z rme joined #lisp
2014-09-22T02:53:19Z echo-area joined #lisp
2014-09-22T02:55:41Z Jesin quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-09-22T02:56:10Z oleo__ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T02:56:44Z oleo is now known as Guest6629
2014-09-22T02:58:05Z Guest6629 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-09-22T03:00:00Z bgs100 quit (Quit: bgs100)
2014-09-22T03:03:05Z jlongster joined #lisp
2014-09-22T03:06:12Z beach` is now known as beach
2014-09-22T03:06:24Z kristof joined #lisp
2014-09-22T03:09:59Z MrWoohoo quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"])
2014-09-22T03:10:44Z xyjprc joined #lisp
2014-09-22T03:13:56Z zRecursi` Why do we need Complex Number ?  Can #(1 2) finish what #c(1 2) does ?
2014-09-22T03:14:26Z Bike: (+ #(1 2) #(3 4)) => oops
2014-09-22T03:15:20Z Adlai: complex numbers could be implemented that way behind the scenes, but the math library still needs to be aware of that
2014-09-22T03:15:39Z zRecursi`: Bike: i see, but we can redefine #'+ for Vector class ?
2014-09-22T03:16:11Z Bike: you could, but what if you wanted to do some other form of vector arithmetic?
2014-09-22T03:16:20Z Bike: and multiplication of complexes is not the same as pointwise multiplication of vectors.
2014-09-22T03:17:23Z zRecursi`: yeah, need to think it much deeply
2014-09-22T03:19:21Z |3b|: we don't /need/ anything, but most language features make things much more convenient than a turing machine or pure lambda calculus
2014-09-22T03:19:32Z phax quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T03:19:39Z vlnx quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-09-22T03:20:35Z |3b|: CL designers felt complex numbers were useful enough to include in the spec, and like bignums make some operations possible to calculate 'correctly' rather than just erroring or giving a wrong answer
2014-09-22T03:20:40Z pillton: zRecursi`: Get your hands off of my complex numbers.
2014-09-22T03:21:10Z zRecursi`: pillton: your complex numbers ?
2014-09-22T03:22:17Z pillton: I use them all the time. CUDA represents complex numbers like #(1 2) and it is annoying.
2014-09-22T03:23:48Z zRecursi`: oh
2014-09-22T03:26:40Z vlnx joined #lisp
2014-09-22T03:29:50Z zRecursi`: In fact, i canot tell a kid what sqrt(-1) is :( IIRC, ancient people didnot know it too so they named it as "i". However, is sqrt(-1) really valid in real world ?
2014-09-22T03:30:02Z beach: Good morning everyone!
2014-09-22T03:30:10Z vanila: zRecursi`, yes, it's valid
2014-09-22T03:30:14Z vanila: good morning beach
2014-09-22T03:30:15Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2014-09-22T03:30:37Z pillton: Morning beach.
2014-09-22T03:31:15Z zRecursi`: vanila: who konws ?
2014-09-22T03:31:24Z vanila: I do
2014-09-22T03:31:47Z zRecursi`: how to prove ?
2014-09-22T03:31:47Z pillton: The worst thing about complex numbers are the terms, real, imaginary and complex.
2014-09-22T03:33:16Z vanila: zRecursi`, start with a number system and add a variable i to it, so that you have terms like 3 i^4 + 2 i + 5, then consider all i^2 terms as equal to -1 so that 3 i^4 + 2 i + 5 = 2 i + 8
2014-09-22T03:33:52Z |3b|: zRecursi`: no number is 'valid' in the real world, they are still useful
2014-09-22T03:34:00Z beach: zRecursi`: Math is all made up.  It just happens to be useful in some cases.  Complex numbers happen to be useful in some cases, so some people want them.  There is nothing else to it.
2014-09-22T03:34:24Z Petit_Dejeuner_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-09-22T03:34:27Z codeburg quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-09-22T03:35:03Z vanila: in my opinion mathematical objects are a real universe that exists & we are able to explore it by mathematics
2014-09-22T03:35:14Z wz1000 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-09-22T03:35:47Z zRecursi`: Both 'pi' and 'e' can be defined explicitly, how about 'i' ?
2014-09-22T03:35:59Z Bike: i² = -1, done
2014-09-22T03:36:58Z zRecursi`: it is just from people's mind not real world
2014-09-22T03:37:09Z vanila: zRecursi`, you pick pi and e out of the real number system, you have to build the complex numbers [like how I described] before you can pick i out of it
2014-09-22T03:37:22Z codeburg joined #lisp
2014-09-22T03:38:30Z BitPuffin joined #lisp
2014-09-22T03:39:25Z pillton: It is used in the real world. Analysing electrical circuits, all signal processing (mobile phones, ADSL, computer vision, radar), physics, trigonometry ....
2014-09-22T03:39:38Z zRecursi`: pi is defined s/d of circle, e is limitation of ...,,
2014-09-22T03:40:12Z zRecursi`: thanks all, i will think how to tell that kid later
2014-09-22T03:42:10Z pjb: Actually, complex numbers are really simple, compared to reals.
2014-09-22T03:43:29Z pjb: Reals are limits of converging series of ratios…
2014-09-22T03:43:40Z pjb: a+b is the sum of two limits!
2014-09-22T03:44:50Z beach: pjb: I have a question for you similar to that of Quadrescence (about BourguignOS).  Do you have a roadmap for it, or a list of goals, or something?
2014-09-22T03:45:04Z pjb: It's our LispOS. :-)
2014-09-22T03:45:17Z beach: Yeah, OK...
2014-09-22T03:45:34Z beach: Do you have a license in mind?
2014-09-22T03:45:49Z pjb: AGPL3 is the licence I use by default.
2014-09-22T03:45:55Z beach: OK.
2014-09-22T03:45:58Z pjb: Linux is GPL.
2014-09-22T03:47:11Z beach: I shall have to read up on AGPL3 and how compatible it is with "public domain".
2014-09-22T03:47:46Z beach: pjb: I am thinking there is probably a lot of overlap between what you have written and SICL.
2014-09-22T03:47:48Z vanila: the A in AGPL is about providing the source code of your server if you use it to host something to people?
2014-09-22T03:48:09Z j_king quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-09-22T03:48:12Z Tuxedo quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2014-09-22T03:48:18Z pjb: Companies are really evil.  You've seen the time universities need to agree to release software.  In companies it's worse.  I never could make them agree to contributions to free software.
2014-09-22T03:48:31Z pjb: vanila: yes.
2014-09-22T03:48:53Z Fade quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-09-22T03:49:59Z Fade joined #lisp
2014-09-22T03:50:06Z Tuxedo joined #lisp
2014-09-22T03:51:02Z Grue` joined #lisp
2014-09-22T03:51:04Z drmeister_: loke: I've got the go-ahead to release it - I've been spending the weekend cleaning things up and upgrading libraries (LLVM)
2014-09-22T03:51:05Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-09-22T03:51:34Z Amaan quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2014-09-22T03:52:05Z loke: drmeister: nice, cool
2014-09-22T03:52:18Z innertracks joined #lisp
2014-09-22T03:53:43Z beach: drmeister_: I took the weekend off for various reasons.  I'll get back to working on the compiler today.
2014-09-22T03:54:21Z drmeister_: That sounds good.
2014-09-22T03:54:47Z j_king joined #lisp
2014-09-22T03:56:09Z jusss is now known as cao-fan-di-qiu
2014-09-22T03:57:10Z atgreen quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T03:57:23Z drmeister_: I'm trying to figure out why now the debug build of clasp segfaults while the release version works just fine.  GRRR
2014-09-22T03:57:54Z kristof: that's like a reverse heisenbug
2014-09-22T03:58:48Z drmeister_: I need this like a hole in the head.
2014-09-22T04:00:32Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2014-09-22T04:02:14Z rme quit (Quit: rme)
2014-09-22T04:03:30Z rme joined #lisp
2014-09-22T04:04:42Z xyjprc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T04:05:06Z cao-fan-di-qiu quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs))
2014-09-22T04:05:43Z nand1` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T04:07:42Z |3b|: drmeister_: those are particularly useful for breathing (holes in the head i mean) :p
2014-09-22T04:08:16Z drmeister_: And letting out evil spirits.
2014-09-22T04:10:31Z drmeister_: It might be time to run this under valgrind again.   Segfaulting debug builds is bad news.
2014-09-22T04:11:04Z zacts quit (Quit: leaving)
2014-09-22T04:11:25Z c107 is now known as hadarachvehaor
2014-09-22T04:11:44Z hadarachvehaor is now known as hadarachvhaor
2014-09-22T04:11:46Z Jesin joined #lisp
2014-09-22T04:12:45Z hadarachvhaor is now known as c107
2014-09-22T04:16:06Z tankrim quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T04:16:38Z hiyosi joined #lisp
2014-09-22T04:19:45Z madrik joined #lisp
2014-09-22T04:20:41Z c107 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T04:20:49Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T04:21:44Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-09-22T04:24:02Z Jessin joined #lisp
2014-09-22T04:24:16Z Jesin quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-09-22T04:24:31Z Jessin is now known as Jesin
2014-09-22T04:24:51Z Jesin quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T04:25:11Z Jesin joined #lisp
2014-09-22T04:27:13Z Jesin quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T04:28:34Z Jesin joined #lisp
2014-09-22T04:29:45Z Adlai: new favorite part of the spec: (define-method-combination standard …)
2014-09-22T04:30:57Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-09-22T04:32:20Z kristof: I've never seen a good example of a nonstandard method combination
2014-09-22T04:32:24Z kristof: I wish I had
2014-09-22T04:32:53Z beach: kristof: I have used PROGN, +, LIST, and some others.
2014-09-22T04:33:06Z Adlai: those are [in the] standard :)
2014-09-22T04:33:27Z kristof: Sure, but they count as nonstandard
2014-09-22T04:33:47Z kristof: beach: I can see list being useful
2014-09-22T04:35:25Z beach: But they are not called STANDARD.  They are called BUILT-IN.
2014-09-22T04:35:41Z Adlai: what was the use case for PROGN?
2014-09-22T04:36:15Z beach: kristof: I used + for the number of bytes taken up by a MIDI message.
2014-09-22T04:36:17Z kristof: I suppose a case where you want an implicit CALL-NEXT-METHOD at the end
2014-09-22T04:36:27Z kristof: beach: That's a brilliant use, actually
2014-09-22T04:36:41Z kristof: I like that a lot
2014-09-22T04:36:56Z Bike: i made up a progn-style one for combining results from methods with the semantics of subtypep.
2014-09-22T04:37:02Z Adlai: it messes with return values, though. you lose all return values but the least specific one
2014-09-22T04:37:22Z kristof: That's fine if you're just looking for side-effects.
2014-09-22T04:40:04Z Adlai: yes. i was wondering if beach was using it in a case where the return value selection was the important factor
2014-09-22T04:41:07Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-09-22T04:43:14Z beach: Adlai: I think I have only used PROGN when the value was unimportant.
2014-09-22T04:43:19Z innertracks joined #lisp
2014-09-22T04:45:01Z Adlai vows to someday reach a fork in the road between using PROGN and PROG1
2014-09-22T04:45:41Z beach: Oh, and i have used APPEND with :MOST-SPECIFIC-LAST a few times it seems.
2014-09-22T04:46:11Z beach: In Clobber.
2014-09-22T04:46:32Z beach: We use OR in McCLIM/ESA.
2014-09-22T04:47:10Z beach: We use APPEND, NCONC, AND in Drei
2014-09-22T04:47:26Z kristof: I guess it's more common than I thought
2014-09-22T04:47:31Z beach: We also use our own VALUES-MAX-MIN :MOST-SPECIFIC-LAST.
2014-09-22T04:47:48Z kristof: AND/OR seems like an interesting use-case
2014-09-22T04:48:10Z kristof: When would someone provide a "true" value for a subtype but a "false" for a supertype? Or viceversa.
2014-09-22T04:49:41Z beach: kristof: Explain a bit more.
2014-09-22T04:49:52Z mishoo joined #lisp
2014-09-22T04:51:08Z jackjerk joined #lisp
2014-09-22T04:51:59Z kristof: Well, that's my understanding of the AND method combination. All of the methods have to evaluate to T from most specific to least specific, right?
2014-09-22T04:52:36Z kristof: But I'm having trouble picturing a case where a more specific method would evaluate to T, while a later one would evaluate to NIL, merely based on the type.
2014-09-22T04:52:57Z kristof: I guess I'm asking what the use was in Drei
2014-09-22T04:53:17Z kristof: beach: But if you're going to answer that, you should put it in a memo because I'm off for tonight. Goodnight!
2014-09-22T04:53:26Z kristof quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0)
2014-09-22T04:53:26Z beach: OK.
2014-09-22T04:53:58Z phadthai: he unfortunately just disconnected
2014-09-22T04:54:23Z phadthai: ah heh well he warned about it, which I missed :)
2014-09-22T04:55:55Z beach: I don't think what he is asking is hard to imagine.
2014-09-22T04:56:40Z jackjerk quit (Quit: jackjerk)
2014-09-22T04:58:36Z kcj joined #lisp
2014-09-22T05:00:07Z MrWoohoo joined #lisp
2014-09-22T05:00:38Z Grue`: I have a really lame use of OR here: https://github.com/tshatrov/ichiran/blob/master/romanize.lisp#L172
2014-09-22T05:01:40Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-09-22T05:02:29Z Grue`: which is coincidentally an example of more specific method returning true value and default is nil
2014-09-22T05:03:13Z beach: I think kristof is having problems with the inverse case.
2014-09-22T05:03:40Z beach: ... but I need to think about it.
2014-09-22T05:04:52Z Grue`: though OR is a really useful control flow operation, AND is less so
2014-09-22T05:07:25Z rme quit (Quit: rme)
2014-09-22T05:08:14Z kushal joined #lisp
2014-09-22T05:12:28Z Adlai: ouch, i just had an attemptedly seamless change-class with 36% thread fatality
2014-09-22T05:12:35Z jlongster joined #lisp
2014-09-22T05:15:47Z loke: I doubt change-class is thread-safe in any implementation
2014-09-22T05:15:51Z resttime: is cliki down for other people?
2014-09-22T05:16:23Z loke: http://www.downforeveryoneorjustme.com/www.cliki.net
2014-09-22T05:17:24Z hiyosi joined #lisp
2014-09-22T05:20:21Z meiji11 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T05:22:00Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2014-09-22T05:23:44Z drmeister_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T05:24:25Z wz1000 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T05:25:06Z pecg joined #lisp
2014-09-22T05:30:41Z pecg quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-09-22T05:31:42Z beach left #lisp
2014-09-22T05:36:13Z tadni quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T05:36:52Z vinleod joined #lisp
2014-09-22T05:37:10Z Quadrescence joined #lisp
2014-09-22T05:37:43Z adhoc quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-09-22T05:40:40Z Adlai: it's thread-safe enough for my attempted use... or at least, each time this acrobatic has failed was due to acrobat error
2014-09-22T05:42:39Z keen__ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2014-09-22T05:47:32Z vinleod quit (Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"])
2014-09-22T05:48:09Z vinleod joined #lisp
2014-09-22T05:49:13Z mr-foobar joined #lisp
2014-09-22T05:51:03Z kcj quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T05:54:46Z oleo__ quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2014-09-22T06:02:25Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-09-22T06:04:06Z MoALTz_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2014-09-22T06:04:09Z freaksken joined #lisp
2014-09-22T06:04:50Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2014-09-22T06:06:51Z H4ns: loke: what do you mean by thread safety really?
2014-09-22T06:07:14Z H4ns: loke: would you say that change-class can't be expected to work in the presence of threads?
2014-09-22T06:10:53Z pt1 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T06:12:15Z KCL_ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T06:12:37Z meiji11 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T06:15:22Z KCL quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-09-22T06:16:52Z oudeis joined #lisp
2014-09-22T06:17:10Z pranavrc joined #lisp
2014-09-22T06:18:15Z hiyosi joined #lisp
2014-09-22T06:21:12Z Adlai: isn't it quite sane to expect that change-class called after a generic function invocation doesn't retroactively affect the construction of that effective method function?
2014-09-22T06:21:46Z H4ns: that'd be a sane expectation, i'd say.
2014-09-22T06:22:52Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-09-22T06:25:12Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-09-22T06:25:20Z jkaye joined #lisp
2014-09-22T06:25:58Z mishoo joined #lisp
2014-09-22T06:29:47Z jkaye quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-09-22T06:33:42Z pgomes joined #lisp
2014-09-22T06:34:42Z easye joined #lisp
2014-09-22T06:36:01Z easye quit (Client Quit)
2014-09-22T06:36:11Z easye joined #lisp
2014-09-22T06:36:57Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks)
2014-09-22T06:37:45Z defaultxr quit (Quit: gnight)
2014-09-22T06:38:14Z innertracks joined #lisp
2014-09-22T06:41:15Z jusss joined #lisp
2014-09-22T06:41:35Z mutley89 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T06:42:30Z mutley89 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T06:44:37Z aap_ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T06:45:28Z wizzo joined #lisp
2014-09-22T06:45:35Z mutley89 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T06:45:45Z loke: H4ns: No. I was thinking about multiple parallel calls to change-class. I.e. are the change-class calls atomic?
2014-09-22T06:46:10Z jusss quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs))
2014-09-22T06:46:26Z mutley89 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T06:46:31Z gingerale joined #lisp
2014-09-22T06:47:52Z DGASAU quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T06:48:29Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2014-09-22T06:49:02Z Adlai: that should have the same behavior as multiple parallel nontransactional writes to the object, ie, undefined results
2014-09-22T06:49:09Z drmeiste_ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T06:50:00Z Adlai: which could include, for example, trying to initialize a slot that no longer exists
2014-09-22T06:50:22Z DGASAU quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T06:50:45Z H4ns: loke: i'd not expect them to be atomic, but i'd expect to be able to change-class two separate instances of the same class from two different threads with no problems.
2014-09-22T06:50:59Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2014-09-22T06:52:19Z Adlai: which is what would happen if make-instances-obsolete flags instances to get updated in their next access (ie, by the thread accessing them)
2014-09-22T06:53:50Z drmeiste_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-09-22T06:54:30Z Harag joined #lisp
2014-09-22T06:54:36Z vlnx quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-09-22T07:01:29Z Cymew joined #lisp
2014-09-22T07:01:49Z vlnx joined #lisp
2014-09-22T07:01:53Z pgomes quit (Quit: Leaving)
2014-09-22T07:04:17Z zRecursi` quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T07:05:02Z robot-beethoven quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2014-09-22T07:08:30Z DGASAU quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T07:09:11Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2014-09-22T07:12:18Z nevermoreraven joined #lisp
2014-09-22T07:14:35Z mutley89 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T07:15:24Z mutley89 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T07:15:59Z jusss joined #lisp
2014-09-22T07:16:02Z jusss quit (Changing host)
2014-09-22T07:16:02Z jusss joined #lisp
2014-09-22T07:17:44Z `JRG joined #lisp
2014-09-22T07:18:57Z hiyosi joined #lisp
2014-09-22T07:21:44Z prxq joined #lisp
2014-09-22T07:22:42Z xishvai quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-09-22T07:23:53Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-09-22T07:24:56Z xishvai joined #lisp
2014-09-22T07:25:22Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: you are not expected to understand this message)
2014-09-22T07:27:00Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks)
2014-09-22T07:32:28Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2014-09-22T07:34:06Z yati quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T07:40:42Z Harag quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T07:40:49Z adhoc joined #lisp
2014-09-22T07:40:53Z pgomes joined #lisp
2014-09-22T07:41:06Z oudeis quit (Quit: Leaving)
2014-09-22T07:45:11Z kcj joined #lisp
2014-09-22T07:50:35Z mutley89 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T07:51:25Z mutley89 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T07:54:00Z nug700 quit (Quit: bye)
2014-09-22T07:58:35Z mutley89 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T07:59:25Z mutley89 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T08:00:55Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T08:02:48Z arenz joined #lisp
2014-09-22T08:03:35Z mutley89 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T08:04:08Z leo2007 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-09-22T08:04:23Z mutley89 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T08:06:34Z nevermoreraven quit (Excess Flood)
2014-09-22T08:07:14Z angavrilov joined #lisp
2014-09-22T08:09:05Z Harag joined #lisp
2014-09-22T08:09:17Z nevermoreraven joined #lisp
2014-09-22T08:09:27Z urandom__ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T08:10:31Z nevermoreraven quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2014-09-22T08:11:35Z nevermoreraven joined #lisp
2014-09-22T08:11:42Z leo2007 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T08:12:35Z mutley89 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T08:13:24Z mutley89 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T08:17:59Z Paul_McFreely joined #lisp
2014-09-22T08:19:47Z hiyosi joined #lisp
2014-09-22T08:22:21Z prxq: does anyone know who controls the dns for paste.lisp.org?
2014-09-22T08:22:44Z vlnx quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-09-22T08:22:48Z loic__ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T08:23:16Z Petit_Dejeuner_ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T08:24:14Z TomRS joined #lisp
2014-09-22T08:24:55Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-09-22T08:25:21Z ecraven joined #lisp
2014-09-22T08:26:16Z jkaye joined #lisp
2014-09-22T08:29:24Z easye: prxq: I would have thought the ALU.  Or did Xach work out a deal for 'paste' and 'planet'?
2014-09-22T08:29:50Z vlnx joined #lisp
2014-09-22T08:30:12Z easye: prxq: Err.   Actually the tech contact for 'lisp.org' is Franz.
2014-09-22T08:30:22Z alchemis7 left #lisp
2014-09-22T08:30:22Z jkaye quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-09-22T08:30:23Z alchemis7 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T08:30:25Z prxq: hm
2014-09-22T08:30:26Z easye: No ALU involved.
2014-09-22T08:30:57Z easye: There were rumors that common-lisp.net was moving today.  Did that effect paste.lisp.org
2014-09-22T08:32:17Z prxq: it will, because paste.lisp.org points to common-lisp.net, and not to an ip.
2014-09-22T08:32:47Z prxq: well, then it will be down until someone can fix the bots.
2014-09-22T08:33:09Z easye: would you like an account on the new host?
2014-09-22T08:33:20Z easye: Badly timed.  Did Erik or Mario get in touch?
2014-09-22T08:33:30Z prxq: I'm Mario :-)
2014-09-22T08:33:30Z Cymew: Is all this written down somewhere how all this infrastructure works, and whom to call when it's down?
2014-09-22T08:33:41Z easye: prxq: Eh.  Hello.
2014-09-22T08:33:47Z prxq: hi :-)
2014-09-22T08:34:00Z prxq: Cymew: no, but good point.
2014-09-22T08:34:14Z Cymew: Ah
2014-09-22T08:34:15Z easye: Then we should ask stas about a possible quick migration.
2014-09-22T08:34:42Z prxq: right
2014-09-22T08:34:55Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2014-09-22T08:34:55Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host)
2014-09-22T08:34:55Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2014-09-22T08:35:13Z Cymew: Many thanks for keeping it running, btw!
2014-09-22T08:35:50Z prxq: Cymew: you're welcome! I hope the new server represents a real improvement.
2014-09-22T08:37:20Z drmeiste_ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T08:38:16Z stassats joined #lisp
2014-09-22T08:38:25Z prxq: hi stassats!
2014-09-22T08:38:32Z stassats: what's up?
2014-09-22T08:39:11Z prxq: will you be around in, say, an hour from now? I'd like to migrate the bots to the new server.
2014-09-22T08:39:35Z stassats: ok, i will
2014-09-22T08:39:51Z stassats: did you figure the apache config?
2014-09-22T08:40:46Z Quadrescence: hi stassats
2014-09-22T08:41:04Z stassats: minion: version?
2014-09-22T08:41:04Z minion: This is the minion bot, running on a X86-64 (QEMU Virtual CPU version 1.0) and running under SBCL 1.1.6.
2014-09-22T08:41:08Z prxq: no. I thought it could wait but the dns of paste.lisp.org moves with common-lisp.net. But I'm in the process now.
2014-09-22T08:41:35Z stassats: minion and specbot don't need it, so they can be moved first
2014-09-22T08:42:23Z jegaxd26 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T08:42:25Z drmeiste_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-09-22T08:42:27Z prxq: anyone here uses hunchentoot with mod_proxy? It would be great to have an apache config snippet that is known to work.
2014-09-22T08:42:27Z fr3aksken joined #lisp
2014-09-22T08:43:49Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T08:44:49Z freaksken quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-09-22T08:44:49Z fr3aksken is now known as freaksken
2014-09-22T08:49:15Z stassats: what about https://github.com/stassats/lisp-bots/blob/master/apache.conf.include ?
2014-09-22T08:50:34Z prxq: looks good
2014-09-22T08:51:21Z Enfors joined #lisp
2014-09-22T08:55:19Z aduadu quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-09-22T08:55:55Z attila_lendvai quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2014-09-22T08:58:01Z Quadrescence: stassats, where can i teach sbcl about a new special form
2014-09-22T08:58:22Z Beetny joined #lisp
2014-09-22T09:04:02Z markov` joined #lisp
2014-09-22T09:05:07Z segv- joined #lisp
2014-09-22T09:06:32Z stassats: def-ir1-translator
2014-09-22T09:09:27Z arenz quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-09-22T09:13:49Z Quadrescence: stassats, is there anything else that needs to be done to tell the compiler to make use of it
2014-09-22T09:14:16Z stassats: why do you need a special operator, though? what are you doing that a macro can't?
2014-09-22T09:15:04Z Petit_Dejeuner_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-09-22T09:15:21Z Quadrescence: i am playing around. i want to see if having a COMMENT form would be at all useful, which survives macroexpansions, but disappears in the actual assembly of the IR
2014-09-22T09:15:36Z mutley89 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T09:16:22Z stassats: you can do something simpler, e.g. define-source-transform
2014-09-22T09:16:27Z mutley89 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T09:16:39Z pt1 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T09:17:11Z stassats: though, that would allow only to translate it into NIL or something, i'm not sure how the real thing will affect source locations
2014-09-22T09:17:48Z Quadrescence: well a compiler macro was the first idea, just turning it into nil
2014-09-22T09:17:59Z Quadrescence: but then (+ 1 (comment "foo") 2) wouldn't work
2014-09-22T09:18:53Z Neet__ is now known as Neet
2014-09-22T09:19:20Z vanila: Quadrescence, How about (begin "comment here" value) to tag a comment onto value
2014-09-22T09:19:39Z Quadrescence: vanila, yeah that's the other way, though that's a little more cumbersome, syntactically
2014-09-22T09:19:51Z Quadrescence: I did write (ANNOTATE "string" &rest)
2014-09-22T09:20:28Z vanila: it's just that (+ 1 (comment "foo") 2) corresponds to the s-expression (+ . (1 . ((comment "foo") . (2 . ())))) if you see what I mean?
2014-09-22T09:20:37Z hiyosi joined #lisp
2014-09-22T09:20:37Z vanila: it's non-trivial to just remove it
2014-09-22T09:20:59Z stassats: ir1 is not a list
2014-09-22T09:21:23Z pt1 quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-09-22T09:22:32Z ehu joined #lisp
2014-09-22T09:24:07Z Quadrescence: this should be trivial to write using def-ir1-translator I guess, when equipped with a sufficient understanding of ir1
2014-09-22T09:24:15Z MouldyOldBones quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-09-22T09:25:15Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2014-09-22T09:27:09Z MouldyOldBones joined #lisp
2014-09-22T09:29:18Z hugod quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T09:29:36Z mutley89 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T09:30:27Z hugod joined #lisp
2014-09-22T09:30:29Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-09-22T09:30:30Z mutley89 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T09:32:49Z wz1000 quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0)
2014-09-22T09:32:50Z pranavrc quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T09:33:06Z pranavrc joined #lisp
2014-09-22T09:33:06Z pranavrc quit (Changing host)
2014-09-22T09:33:06Z pranavrc joined #lisp
2014-09-22T09:34:04Z H4ns: prxq: svn on common-lisp.net does not work, is that on your list?
2014-09-22T09:35:13Z prxq: it's on the list for later.
2014-09-22T09:35:15Z arenz joined #lisp
2014-09-22T09:35:45Z prxq: was it working no the old host?
2014-09-22T09:35:50Z H4ns: ok.  i'll copy out the usocket repo and migrate it to github
2014-09-22T09:36:00Z H4ns: it was working on the old host, sure.
2014-09-22T09:36:15Z prxq: then it should work later today.
2014-09-22T09:37:27Z jusss quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs))
2014-09-22T09:40:31Z farhaven joined #lisp
2014-09-22T09:41:24Z davazp joined #lisp
2014-09-22T09:47:44Z kcj quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T09:48:01Z markov` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T09:48:16Z adhoc left #lisp
2014-09-22T09:48:47Z EvW joined #lisp
2014-09-22T09:50:36Z mutley89 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T09:51:27Z mutley89 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T09:51:56Z prxq: H4ns: can you post the exact command you use to checkout usocket?
2014-09-22T09:52:45Z H4ns: prxq: it is mentioned on http://common-lisp.net/project/usocket/ which is not available right now.
2014-09-22T09:52:58Z ndrei joined #lisp
2014-09-22T09:53:06Z wasamasa: noo
2014-09-22T09:53:10Z prxq: H4ns: we are down for maintenance, sorry. Ok.
2014-09-22T09:54:20Z prxq: should be back up soon (up to DNS propagation lag)
2014-09-22T09:59:32Z Bazzie quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2014-09-22T10:01:58Z H4ns: prxq: what would be a safe way to connect to the new common-lisp.net by ssh?  i would liket to update the usocket project page with the new repository information.
2014-09-22T10:02:06Z gravicappa joined #lisp
2014-09-22T10:03:03Z nevermoreraven quit (Excess Flood)
2014-09-22T10:05:31Z nevermoreraven joined #lisp
2014-09-22T10:08:36Z mutley89 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T10:09:28Z mutley89 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T10:09:45Z stepnem joined #lisp
2014-09-22T10:10:15Z arenz quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-09-22T10:10:36Z mvilleneuve_ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T10:11:16Z posterdati300 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T10:13:08Z mvilleneuve quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-09-22T10:13:31Z moore33 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T10:15:49Z xishvai quit (Quit: xishvai)
2014-09-22T10:17:21Z Harag quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-09-22T10:19:37Z Quadrescence quit (Quit: Leaving)
2014-09-22T10:21:30Z hiyosi joined #lisp
2014-09-22T10:25:28Z drmeiste_ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T10:26:17Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-09-22T10:26:37Z echo-area quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T10:29:54Z ggole joined #lisp
2014-09-22T10:30:00Z drmeiste_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2014-09-22T10:34:04Z karupa is now known as zz_karupa
2014-09-22T10:35:23Z arenz joined #lisp
2014-09-22T10:37:34Z zlrth joined #lisp
2014-09-22T10:39:39Z hlavaty joined #lisp
2014-09-22T10:40:17Z stardiviner quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-09-22T10:40:36Z mutley89 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T10:41:31Z mutley89 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T10:45:08Z pranavrc_ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T10:45:36Z mutley89 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T10:46:09Z pranavrc quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-09-22T10:46:57Z AeroNotix: When I try to M-slime in Emacs now I get: https://gist.github.com/AeroNotix/2826be8b802f227482b1
2014-09-22T10:47:10Z AeroNotix: I've updated slime but I don't know why it's trying to load a file that doesn't exist
2014-09-22T10:47:56Z stassats: you update/installed it wrong
2014-09-22T10:51:17Z pranavrc_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T10:51:46Z AeroNotix: stassats: I just update through package.el's update
2014-09-22T10:51:52Z AeroNotix: and I've had it installed for ages working properly;
2014-09-22T10:52:10Z stassats: present your problems to package.el
2014-09-22T10:52:19Z AeroNotix: Wha?
2014-09-22T10:52:22Z AeroNotix: Que?
2014-09-22T10:52:33Z atgreen joined #lisp
2014-09-22T10:52:54Z H4ns: AeroNotix: i can recommend quicklisp-slime-helper, it works very well.
2014-09-22T10:53:11Z stassats: #lisp is not a support channel for some emacs lisp software
2014-09-22T10:53:12Z TomRS: hi! is it possible to see two slime inspector-instances at the same time? e.g. when a test fails where two objects are compared, it would be great to show the next to each other, to see on wich slot they are different.
2014-09-22T10:53:22Z stassats: TomRS: not really
2014-09-22T10:53:24Z H4ns: AeroNotix: it smells as if you've forgot to specify the trailing slash in some directory pathname.
2014-09-22T10:53:26Z TomRS: :(
2014-09-22T10:53:34Z AeroNotix: stassats: I get that, but given that SLIME is hybrid emacs/CL code I thought it'd bne ok
2014-09-22T10:53:35Z H4ns: TomRS: sly does that, supposedly
2014-09-22T10:53:36Z AeroNotix: be
2014-09-22T10:53:53Z AeroNotix: H4ns: I didn't have to specify any paths, I wonder if the new version needs some extra config
2014-09-22T10:54:00Z stassats: AeroNotix: you could try M-x clone-buffer, just for that purpose
2014-09-22T10:54:03Z TomRS: H4ns: thanks
2014-09-22T10:54:03Z H4ns: AeroNotix: quicklisp-slime-helper or die.
2014-09-22T10:54:11Z AeroNotix: H4ns: I'll check it out thanks
2014-09-22T10:54:33Z stassats: TomRS: that was for you
2014-09-22T10:55:02Z TomRS: stassats: ok thanks!
2014-09-22T10:56:08Z AeroNotix: H4ns: adding the quicklisp-slime-helper worked! TIL
2014-09-22T10:57:11Z mutley89 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T10:57:36Z pt1 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T10:57:40Z resttime quit (Quit: resttime)
2014-09-22T10:57:43Z madrik quit (Quit: away)
2014-09-22T11:00:46Z varjag joined #lisp
2014-09-22T11:03:52Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-09-22T11:09:22Z arenz quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-09-22T11:09:58Z arenz joined #lisp
2014-09-22T11:10:52Z Shinmobile joined #lisp
2014-09-22T11:12:24Z PuercoPop: TomRS: you can have multiple inspectors in sly
2014-09-22T11:12:44Z janmuffino joined #lisp
2014-09-22T11:12:59Z Longlius quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T11:13:00Z ThatOtherPerson joined #lisp
2014-09-22T11:13:11Z ThatOtherPerson: #join #common-lisp
2014-09-22T11:13:26Z ThatOtherPerson left #lisp
2014-09-22T11:13:57Z protist joined #lisp
2014-09-22T11:14:49Z milesrout joined #lisp
2014-09-22T11:15:16Z milesrout: how much of the lisp reader is normally written in common lisp in a typical software implementation of common lisp?
2014-09-22T11:16:34Z protist: milesrout: ide assume all of it...but I am eagerly anticipating someone who knows the real answer
2014-09-22T11:19:08Z easye: For a survey point ABCL implements its Lisp reader almost entirely in Java.
2014-09-22T11:19:23Z protist: easye: wow
2014-09-22T11:19:44Z vanila quit (Quit: Leaving)
2014-09-22T11:20:13Z Xach: I'd guess CLISP is similar, but that's just a guess.
2014-09-22T11:21:30Z Xach: easye: I emailed franz to get planet.lisp.org. I don't know who did the same for paste.
2014-09-22T11:21:51Z milesrout: Xach: you stealing some websites or something?
2014-09-22T11:22:13Z hiyosi joined #lisp
2014-09-22T11:22:27Z Xach: milesrout: No. What prompts the question?
2014-09-22T11:22:42Z milesrout: Sounds like you're taking over a website. Sounded semi-hostile lol
2014-09-22T11:24:20Z Xach: Ok. That's not the case. I created Planet Lisp in 2004, and in 2004 I got the DNS name paste.lisp.org by emailing Kevin at Franz.
2014-09-22T11:25:20Z milesrout: Sweet as.
2014-09-22T11:26:13Z TomRS: PuercoPop: thanks!
2014-09-22T11:26:23Z Elench joined #lisp
2014-09-22T11:26:40Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T11:26:51Z hitecnologys joined #lisp
2014-09-22T11:26:52Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-09-22T11:26:59Z protist: milesrout: people not from new zealand might have trouble parsing that
2014-09-22T11:27:14Z milesrout: protist: true that.
2014-09-22T11:27:45Z harish_ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T11:27:48Z Xach: Few outside NZ know it's short for "Sweet as Temuera Morrison's brutal yet tender performance in Once Were Warriors"
2014-09-22T11:28:07Z protist: Xach: hahahaha
2014-09-22T11:28:13Z protist: Xach: where are you from?
2014-09-22T11:28:15Z milesrout does /whois to check Xach's country
2014-09-22T11:28:18Z Elench: Do any of you know of a good Lisp(y) CSG tool that can output to stl?
2014-09-22T11:28:22Z protist: milesrout: i was about to
2014-09-22T11:28:30Z harish_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T11:36:04Z prxq: Ok, common-lisp.net migration is complete. Only paste.lisp.org has to come back up.
2014-09-22T11:36:48Z minion quit (Disconnected by services)
2014-09-22T11:36:49Z specbot quit (Disconnected by services)
2014-09-22T11:37:33Z minion joined #lisp
2014-09-22T11:37:35Z specbot joined #lisp
2014-09-22T11:37:36Z minion quit (Disconnected by services)
2014-09-22T11:38:06Z specbot quit (Disconnected by services)
2014-09-22T11:38:10Z specbot joined #lisp
2014-09-22T11:38:16Z stassats: prxq: how do i connect to the old cl.net then?
2014-09-22T11:39:15Z H4ns: prxq: is there an alternative host name that points to the new box no matter what?
2014-09-22T11:39:15Z prxq: privmsgd you with the ip
2014-09-22T11:39:30Z prxq: H4ns: what do you mean?
2014-09-22T11:39:49Z H4ns: prxq: don't worry.  lisp.not.org works
2014-09-22T11:39:50Z prxq: common-lisp.net should point to the box
2014-09-22T11:39:53Z Xach: prxq: like if DNS has not propagated fully yet, perhaps
2014-09-22T11:40:05Z H4ns: prxq: the dns does not know that everywhere.
2014-09-22T11:40:37Z nevermoreraven quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-09-22T11:41:30Z specbot quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T11:41:35Z prxq: ok. lisp.not.org points there now
2014-09-22T11:41:57Z yacks quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-09-22T11:42:00Z minion joined #lisp
2014-09-22T11:42:00Z specbot joined #lisp
2014-09-22T11:42:04Z stassats: minion: version
2014-09-22T11:42:04Z minion: This is the minion bot, running on a X86-64 (QEMU Virtual CPU version 1.1.2) and running under SBCL 1.1.6.
2014-09-22T11:42:42Z kuzy000_ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T11:42:44Z stassats: clhs u-i-f-r-c
2014-09-22T11:42:44Z specbot: update-instance-for-redefined-class: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_upda_1.htm
2014-09-22T11:43:08Z otwieracz: I love this autocomplete.
2014-09-22T11:43:17Z milesrout: that's awesome
2014-09-22T11:43:37Z H4ns: http://lisp.not.org/project/usocket/ worked a minute ago, now it is 404
2014-09-22T11:43:41Z H4ns: prxq: ^that
2014-09-22T11:44:19Z milesrout: One thing that annoys me a bit about lisp is that the () require SHIFT. I'm seriously considering switching numbers with symbols along the top row.
2014-09-22T11:44:33Z milesrout: except ` ~ obviously, that ` is too useful.
2014-09-22T11:44:59Z prxq: H4ns: weird. works here
2014-09-22T11:46:10Z prxq: maybe you hit the server exactly when apache was restaring.
2014-09-22T11:46:30Z stassats: the new machine seems snappier
2014-09-22T11:47:57Z milesrout: prxq: works from here
2014-09-22T11:48:08Z dandersen joined #lisp
2014-09-22T11:49:28Z H4ns: ah.  someone needs to fix ipv6 on lisp.not.org
2014-09-22T11:49:47Z H4ns: apache does listen on ipv6, but it fails to properly route such requests.
2014-09-22T11:49:53Z mr-foobar quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-09-22T11:50:51Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2014-09-22T11:54:36Z mutley89 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T11:55:27Z mutley89 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T11:55:31Z jegaxd26 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T11:56:47Z milesrout quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T11:59:12Z Shinmobile- joined #lisp
2014-09-22T11:59:19Z Shinmobile- quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T11:59:22Z Shinmobile quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T12:00:11Z Shinmobile- joined #lisp
2014-09-22T12:00:51Z dmiles_afk joined #lisp
2014-09-22T12:00:51Z prxq: paste.lisp.org is back up
2014-09-22T12:03:17Z mr-foobar joined #lisp
2014-09-22T12:05:23Z dmiles_afk quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-09-22T12:05:48Z moore33 quit
2014-09-22T12:06:56Z mr-foobar quit (Client Quit)
2014-09-22T12:08:39Z jegaxd26 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T12:10:08Z zacharias joined #lisp
2014-09-22T12:10:18Z Shinmobile joined #lisp
2014-09-22T12:10:36Z mutley89 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T12:11:24Z Shinmobile quit (Client Quit)
2014-09-22T12:11:30Z mutley89 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T12:14:02Z Shinmobile- quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-09-22T12:14:19Z H4ns: prxq: ipv6 now works as well, thanks!
2014-09-22T12:14:53Z stassats: H4ns: does it work for paste.lisp.org?
2014-09-22T12:15:22Z zlrth quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-09-22T12:15:31Z H4ns: stassats: 502
2014-09-22T12:16:04Z H4ns: stassats: but paste.lisp.org does not have an aaaa dns record, so the 502 is ipv4
2014-09-22T12:16:20Z stassats: that's not for me
2014-09-22T12:16:36Z mutley89 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T12:17:25Z mutley89 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T12:17:30Z Shinmera joined #lisp
2014-09-22T12:18:25Z optikalmouse quit (Quit: Leaving)
2014-09-22T12:19:43Z easye: prxq: abcl.org doesn't seem to be running.
2014-09-22T12:21:35Z easye: But overall, things look good.  How are we planning to coord the remaining nits?
2014-09-22T12:21:49Z Shinmera: Is cliki still down?
2014-09-22T12:22:53Z pt1 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T12:23:02Z hiyosi joined #lisp
2014-09-22T12:23:18Z easye: Shinmera: Yes.  As far as I know, it was not going to be moved today.
2014-09-22T12:23:19Z stassats: minion: cliki?
2014-09-22T12:23:24Z minion: cliki: index: I can't be expected to work when CLiki doesn't respond to me, can I?
2014-09-22T12:23:36Z Shinmera: Alright, I was afraid it was just me.
2014-09-22T12:24:36Z mutley89 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T12:24:56Z ndrei_ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T12:25:30Z mutley89 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T12:27:28Z wasamasa: isup.me is pretty helpful for these kind of things
2014-09-22T12:27:35Z rme joined #lisp
2014-09-22T12:27:38Z Shinmera: Those sites have failed me before
2014-09-22T12:27:38Z jkaye joined #lisp
2014-09-22T12:27:41Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-09-22T12:27:49Z wasamasa: "It's not just you! http://cliki.net looks down from here."
2014-09-22T12:29:47Z prxq: easye: re. abcl.org, indeed. I'm on it.
2014-09-22T12:30:09Z easye: prxq: Thanks
2014-09-22T12:32:17Z jkaye quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-09-22T12:33:01Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T12:33:24Z davazp quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-09-22T12:33:45Z prxq: easye: should be back
2014-09-22T12:34:00Z easye: prxq:  Yep.  Thanks!
2014-09-22T12:34:32Z prxq: well, trac doesn't work from abcl.org yet.
2014-09-22T12:34:36Z prxq digs deeper
2014-09-22T12:35:38Z Petit_Dejeuner_ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T12:36:19Z nyef joined #lisp
2014-09-22T12:36:57Z prxq: easye: the link to trac goes to lisp.not.org. It should go to abcl.org. The bugtracker link should be http://abcl.org/trac/report/1
2014-09-22T12:37:25Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T12:37:36Z mutley89 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T12:38:25Z mutley89 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T12:39:12Z prxq: similarly in the faq
2014-09-22T12:40:15Z prxq: stassats: still getting an error? paste.lisp.org works from here
2014-09-22T12:40:22Z yacks joined #lisp
2014-09-22T12:43:22Z zeebrah quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-09-22T12:43:36Z mutley89 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T12:44:28Z mutley89 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T12:44:51Z Xach: prxq: cvs is not working now
2014-09-22T12:44:59Z Xach: prxq: it worked during our experiments
2014-09-22T12:45:47Z mrottenkolber joined #lisp
2014-09-22T12:45:57Z mrottenkolber left #lisp
2014-09-22T12:46:13Z prxq: Xach: should work now.
2014-09-22T12:46:17Z stassats: prxq: which error?
2014-09-22T12:46:29Z prxq: stassats: 502.
2014-09-22T12:46:33Z prxq: or any error.
2014-09-22T12:46:43Z stassats: ask H4ns, i don't have ipv6
2014-09-22T12:46:50Z vaporatorius joined #lisp
2014-09-22T12:46:52Z prxq: ah i see.
2014-09-22T12:47:43Z H4ns: http://paste.lisp.org/ works with ipv6 now.
2014-09-22T12:47:50Z prxq: great
2014-09-22T12:48:19Z stassats: but can it core a apple?
2014-09-22T12:48:43Z prxq: only on the iphone 7
2014-09-22T12:50:08Z wasamasa: no, only cliki.net is left
2014-09-22T12:51:47Z prxq: wasamasa: I'm aftaid cliki.net lives on a different infrastructure.
2014-09-22T12:51:55Z wasamasa: :<
2014-09-22T12:52:28Z prxq: Xach: does quicklisp's download script run through?
2014-09-22T12:53:29Z Xach: prxq: yes.
2014-09-22T12:53:44Z gz_ is now known as gz
2014-09-22T12:54:06Z prxq: that's great news. Is it possible that this migration sort-of worked?
2014-09-22T12:54:26Z Xach: possible!
2014-09-22T12:59:37Z dandersen is now known as dkcl
2014-09-22T12:59:53Z easye: prxq: references to lisp.not.org removed from abcl.org
2014-09-22T12:59:59Z LiamH joined #lisp
2014-09-22T13:00:32Z prxq: easye: ah great. For some reason I was failing to get trac on lisp.not.org working. I'll stop trying then.
2014-09-22T13:00:53Z prxq: the abcl.org url looks neater, I think.
2014-09-22T13:01:20Z Ralt left #lisp
2014-09-22T13:01:43Z pt1 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T13:02:11Z easye: prxq: right.
2014-09-22T13:02:33Z easye: lisp.not.org URIs *should* work for permanence, but I'll debug that separately.
2014-09-22T13:02:59Z easye: abcl.org should definitely be the "user facing" linkage.
2014-09-22T13:05:36Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-09-22T13:05:49Z ehu: hi
2014-09-22T13:06:58Z easye waves to ehu
2014-09-22T13:07:37Z ehu waves back
2014-09-22T13:08:01Z Adlai: beautiful, I got a method call in another thread right between redefining the generic function and adding methods. hit restart 0, and we're off again :D
2014-09-22T13:08:09Z ehu: I'm seeing the load on the new system slowly increase.
2014-09-22T13:08:10Z oudeis joined #lisp
2014-09-22T13:08:28Z ehu: published ipv6 records today.
2014-09-22T13:08:41Z ehu: thanks to h4ns for the verification of the setup, it now should work.
2014-09-22T13:09:50Z easye: ehu: increase in a manner that is concerning, or increase in a manner consistent with slowly taking over traffic?
2014-09-22T13:10:03Z atgreen quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T13:10:16Z ehu: the latter.
2014-09-22T13:10:36Z mutley89 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T13:11:07Z oudeis quit (Client Quit)
2014-09-22T13:11:27Z prxq: easye: I'll try to fix lisp.not.org.
2014-09-22T13:11:27Z mutley89 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T13:11:55Z Adlai: update-instance-for-redefined-class + make-instances-obsolete = map-instances ^_^
2014-09-22T13:12:02Z easye: prxq: I can take it as an item for you, if you wish.
2014-09-22T13:12:15Z ehu: easye: if there comes a time when we can't use lisp.not.org anymore, will you please notify us?
2014-09-22T13:12:16Z easye: You probably have enough other things to do...
2014-09-22T13:12:23Z easye: ehu: of course.
2014-09-22T13:12:38Z easye: But I think it's paid up until 2037 or something.
2014-09-22T13:13:00Z ehu: easye: also, what are your plans with gitlab on common-lisp.net?
2014-09-22T13:13:06Z ehu: do those plans still live?
2014-09-22T13:13:09Z prxq: easye: ok!
2014-09-22T13:13:12Z prxq: thanks.
2014-09-22T13:14:05Z easye: re: gitlab: no current plans, but willing to discuss.
2014-09-22T13:15:06Z easye: The previous work was based on the lisp.not.org:/opt/local toolchain.
2014-09-22T13:15:16Z ehu: ok.
2014-09-22T13:15:41Z easye: I don't know if it would be easy to get gitlab working with stock Debian.
2014-09-22T13:15:57Z ehu: as soon as I have some time to allocate time, I'll schedule a call so we can discuss. Agreed?
2014-09-22T13:16:23Z Jesin quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-09-22T13:16:26Z easye: It *should* be, but as a RoR app.  the dependencies really could use the RVM encapsulation mechanism to grab all the right Gems.
2014-09-22T13:16:32Z easye: ehu: Discussion would be great.
2014-09-22T13:16:59Z easye: "time to allocate time".
2014-09-22T13:17:02Z easye snorts.
2014-09-22T13:17:05Z ehu: sorry,
2014-09-22T13:17:12Z ehu: as soon as I have time to allocate.
2014-09-22T13:17:17Z ehu: (not the last time)
2014-09-22T13:17:29Z easye: Not a problem.  Sounds good.
2014-09-22T13:18:00Z zeitue quit (Quit: Leaving)
2014-09-22T13:18:25Z mr-foobar joined #lisp
2014-09-22T13:18:25Z ConCarne joined #lisp
2014-09-22T13:21:36Z ConCarne: hi all
2014-09-22T13:22:12Z easye: Hmm.  Y'all nuked the "user for each project" bit?  That makes permissions for sharing git repos through gitlab a little tricky.
2014-09-22T13:22:29Z jkaye joined #lisp
2014-09-22T13:22:49Z easye: But it's all software.  So, everything can, theoretically, be overcome.
2014-09-22T13:23:08Z ConCarne left #lisp
2014-09-22T13:23:48Z hiyosi joined #lisp
2014-09-22T13:24:21Z lifenoodles_ quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2014-09-22T13:24:51Z lifenoodles joined #lisp
2014-09-22T13:25:08Z lifenoodles quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T13:25:20Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T13:25:25Z lifenoodles joined #lisp
2014-09-22T13:25:48Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2014-09-22T13:26:27Z pt1 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T13:27:30Z prxq: easye: it made migration very messy
2014-09-22T13:28:12Z easye: prxq: Understood.
2014-09-22T13:28:12Z oleo joined #lisp
2014-09-22T13:28:28Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-09-22T13:28:58Z madrik joined #lisp
2014-09-22T13:29:03Z easye: If necessary, I suppose we can effect a re-ordering once the transition is stable.  But to be discussed and all that..
2014-09-22T13:29:10Z prxq: indeed
2014-09-22T13:29:15Z prxq: and yes
2014-09-22T13:29:35Z easye: http://trac.common-lisp.net/clo/ticket/1 for me to remember this.
2014-09-22T13:29:42Z prxq: I'm relieved we are off the old server.
2014-09-22T13:30:06Z easye: Yep.  Congratulations!
2014-09-22T13:30:45Z prxq: thanks :-)
2014-09-22T13:30:46Z wilfredh joined #lisp
2014-09-22T13:30:50Z eudoxia: wow, common-lisp.net looks so much better
2014-09-22T13:31:07Z pt1 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-09-22T13:31:17Z Shinmera: Still not mobile optimised though :C
2014-09-22T13:31:38Z Xach: that reminds me of when i went to a lisp meeting hosted by google, and they provided free beer
2014-09-22T13:31:57Z Xach: and someone on twitter said "i'd have thought google could have sprung for better beers than that"
2014-09-22T13:32:24Z easye: But PBR is hip.  Just not a very good beer.
2014-09-22T13:32:25Z H4ns: looks great, congratulations!
2014-09-22T13:32:28Z H4ns: also, ipv6
2014-09-22T13:32:32Z H4ns: :)
2014-09-22T13:32:43Z Xach updates planet lisp
2014-09-22T13:32:45Z Krystof: the future!
2014-09-22T13:33:01Z Shinmera: Xach: Well, I was merely a bit disappointed when I took a look earlier today and only had my phone available
2014-09-22T13:33:11Z Shinmera: It is definitely a step up from before though
2014-09-22T13:33:20Z Shinmera: And mobile layouts aren't that big of a deal anymore nowadays.
2014-09-22T13:33:27Z Shinmera: To add, I mean
2014-09-22T13:33:36Z H4ns: the pro list should be on the "independent lists" page
2014-09-22T13:33:45Z eudoxia_ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T13:33:47Z wasamasa: "Writing a sustainable framework for listing and finding projects"
2014-09-22T13:33:52Z wasamasa: what exactly is meant with that?
2014-09-22T13:34:05Z prxq: wasamasa: have you looked at the projects page?
2014-09-22T13:34:05Z jackdaniel: i wish linux kernel had macros, so i could register devices like (with-input-driver ...) :(
2014-09-22T13:34:12Z wasamasa: sustainable?
2014-09-22T13:34:14Z H4ns: Shinmera: how disappointed have you been with the old site on your phone?
2014-09-22T13:34:19Z fe[nl]ix: prxq: can we have Apache back, too ?
2014-09-22T13:34:32Z Amaan joined #lisp
2014-09-22T13:34:35Z prxq: wasamasa: http://common-lisp.net/phub/
2014-09-22T13:34:49Z prxq: fe[nl]ix: it's apache already, actually.
2014-09-22T13:34:53Z wasamasa: prxq: well, yes, I see an alphabetically sorted list of projects hosted on common-lisp.net
2014-09-22T13:35:00Z wasamasa: prxq: but I don't quite get the requirements
2014-09-22T13:35:01Z nyef: jackdaniel: Wouldn't that be for a user-level uinput driver?
2014-09-22T13:35:07Z easye: fe[nl]ix: what prxq said.
2014-09-22T13:35:16Z Shinmera: H4ns: I never even dared
2014-09-22T13:35:22Z wasamasa: prxq: is it about grouping related projects?
2014-09-22T13:35:30Z wasamasa: prxq: presenting them in a more interesting way?
2014-09-22T13:35:39Z prxq: wasamasa: it should be nicer to search and browse. The sustainable part is, new projects should fit automagically/
2014-09-22T13:35:39Z wasamasa: prxq: showcasing libraries newbies can go for?
2014-09-22T13:35:40Z prxq: yes
2014-09-22T13:35:44Z jackdaniel: nyef: well, im writing driver for asus embedded controller, it would be hard to handle all this from userspace
2014-09-22T13:35:51Z Xach: prxq: clnettumblr is now on planet lisp, if you want to blog about the post-switchover
2014-09-22T13:36:06Z fe[nl]ix: woohoo
2014-09-22T13:36:10Z prxq: Xach: ok, thanks. will do that later.
2014-09-22T13:36:16Z nyef: Fair enough.
2014-09-22T13:36:25Z fe[nl]ix: http://common-lisp.net/project/iolib/ works again
2014-09-22T13:36:27Z wasamasa: prxq: hmm, I guess the automagic part is where the trouble lies :P
2014-09-22T13:36:29Z moore33 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T13:36:50Z jackdaniel: but touchpad driver shares like 70% of code with keypad, and it is a perfect hit for macro
2014-09-22T13:36:53Z joast quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2014-09-22T13:36:54Z prxq: wasamasa: not really "trouble". It's just that it takes time and is work.
2014-09-22T13:36:57Z eudoxia quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-09-22T13:37:46Z eudoxia_ quit (Client Quit)
2014-09-22T13:37:57Z dmiles_afk joined #lisp
2014-09-22T13:38:10Z easye: jackdaniel: One could theoretically #define WITH_INPUT_DRIVER_START and #WITH_INPUT_DRIVER_END
2014-09-22T13:38:32Z Xach: #define ( {
2014-09-22T13:39:02Z wasamasa: prxq: I only have an idea how to figure out whether the project has a description or not
2014-09-22T13:39:16Z moore33: #define BEGIN {
2014-09-22T13:39:42Z Xach: moore33! i had something to tell/ask you a few days ago! but i forgot it :(
2014-09-22T13:39:49Z Xach: Did you have a Quicklisp question or something?
2014-09-22T13:40:21Z wasamasa: prxq: as in, looking for the placeholder website or apache directory listing
2014-09-22T13:40:22Z jackdaniel: easye: well, wouldn't it be working against language? like picking your right pocket with left hand ;)
2014-09-22T13:40:42Z moore33: Xach: My last question had to do with fare-quasiquote breaking; I think the consensus was that a newer version of asdf fixes it.
2014-09-22T13:41:05Z easye: jackdaniel: Yeah.  And avoiding name collisions with the macro-expand part with be horrible to maintain.
2014-09-22T13:41:26Z moore33: Xach: Otherwise, I am a happy customer :)
2014-09-22T13:42:34Z Xach: Ok. phew.
2014-09-22T13:42:48Z Xach: moore33: did you see 3b's cool teapot video?
2014-09-22T13:43:15Z moore33: no
2014-09-22T13:43:24Z lifenoodles left #lisp
2014-09-22T13:43:40Z moore33: I'm always a fan of drawing teapots in with Lisp :)
2014-09-22T13:43:56Z moore33: Although calling out to glut feels like cheating.
2014-09-22T13:44:00Z yrk joined #lisp
2014-09-22T13:44:16Z Xach: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS_cwQJc8HY
2014-09-22T13:44:23Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2014-09-22T13:44:23Z yrk joined #lisp
2014-09-22T13:45:16Z lifenoodles joined #lisp
2014-09-22T13:47:38Z moore33: Ha! Awesome.
2014-09-22T13:47:54Z loke_: Is H4ns around?
2014-09-22T13:48:08Z Xach: He's more of an elongated cylinder.
2014-09-22T13:48:14Z loke_: I see
2014-09-22T13:48:21Z H4ns: loke_: sup?
2014-09-22T13:48:25Z loke_: Hello!
2014-09-22T13:48:35Z H4ns waves frantically
2014-09-22T13:48:36Z prxq: does anyone have a valid common-lisp.net viewvc link that used to work? It will be broken. but I would nice to have one as a reference to make it run again.
2014-09-22T13:48:38Z loke_: I found another issue with Hunchentoot. Not a bug. More like a usability issue
2014-09-22T13:48:52Z H4ns: loke_: what could that be?
2014-09-22T13:49:28Z duggiefresh joined #lisp
2014-09-22T13:51:32Z effy quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-09-22T13:53:31Z zacharias joined #lisp
2014-09-22T13:55:36Z mutley89 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T13:56:32Z mutley89 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T13:58:02Z apathor left #lisp
2014-09-22T13:59:15Z oGMo: loke_: there are a few; i switched to toot
2014-09-22T13:59:54Z Xach: loke_: the suspense is killnig me!
2014-09-22T14:00:18Z Aranshada|W_ left #lisp
2014-09-22T14:00:36Z mutley89 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T14:00:54Z oscar_toro joined #lisp
2014-09-22T14:01:13Z mingvs quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-09-22T14:01:17Z loke_: Sorry
2014-09-22T14:01:21Z mingvs joined #lisp
2014-09-22T14:01:23Z loke_: I had to put the kids to sleep
2014-09-22T14:01:33Z mutley89 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T14:01:47Z H4ns: loke_: that was quick :)
2014-09-22T14:01:54Z loke_: They are still awake :-)
2014-09-22T14:02:16Z stassats: loke_ just tried to describe the hunchentoot problem to them
2014-09-22T14:02:31Z Xach: haaa
2014-09-22T14:02:35Z loke_: Anyway, I implemented hunchentoot:acceptor-log-message
2014-09-22T14:02:54Z loke_: I did this so I could push the messages to log4cl
2014-09-22T14:03:00Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-09-22T14:03:17Z drmeister quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T14:03:31Z drmeister joined #lisp
2014-09-22T14:03:45Z loke_: The problem has to do with warnings. What happens is that hunchetoot picks up warnings and sends it to the log handler, then log4cl does the same (since it also has a handler for warnings) leading to double log messages
2014-09-22T14:03:57Z loke_: There is no clear way to deal with it
2014-09-22T14:04:18Z stepnem joined #lisp
2014-09-22T14:05:10Z nyef: So, it's not like the "I want to know the MIME type even if it's not file data" thing for post parameters thing? (has that been changed yet?)
2014-09-22T14:05:17Z hitecnologys quit (Quit: hitecnologys)
2014-09-22T14:05:22Z nyef: (Too many things.)
2014-09-22T14:06:04Z H4ns: loke_: how does log4cl have a handler for warnings?
2014-09-22T14:06:11Z loke_: I don't know :-)
2014-09-22T14:06:13Z H4ns: nyef: was that a question regarding hunchentoot?
2014-09-22T14:06:16Z loke_: But it does
2014-09-22T14:06:23Z nyef: H4ns: Yes.
2014-09-22T14:06:26Z loke_: I should investigate that, I guess
2014-09-22T14:06:40Z H4ns: loke_: i'd say that it is wrong doing so.
2014-09-22T14:07:10Z Elench` joined #lisp
2014-09-22T14:07:11Z H4ns: nyef: you want to know the mime type of the request body, and (request-header* :content-type) is not what you want?
2014-09-22T14:07:33Z nyef: H4ns: It's a rfc2388 multipart, IIRC.
2014-09-22T14:07:46Z hitecnologys joined #lisp
2014-09-22T14:08:12Z aoh quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-09-22T14:08:21Z Elench quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-09-22T14:08:34Z H4ns: nyef: ah, ok.  no.  nothing has improved in that area since several years.  it would have been nice to somehow integrate the rfc2388 library better, but that has not happened.
2014-09-22T14:08:35Z yrk quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-09-22T14:08:37Z nyef: I don't remember which version of hunchentoot I'm using, but I patch one of the functions to do what I want.
2014-09-22T14:08:37Z joast joined #lisp
2014-09-22T14:08:41Z jegaxd26 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T14:09:05Z loke_: OK, I'm trying to figure out where the hell the second warning handler comes from
2014-09-22T14:09:10Z oudeis joined #lisp
2014-09-22T14:10:08Z jkaye quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T14:10:22Z oscar_toro left #lisp
2014-09-22T14:11:31Z aoh joined #lisp
2014-09-22T14:12:03Z Elench` is now known as Elench
2014-09-22T14:12:25Z izirku_ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T14:13:37Z typhonic joined #lisp
2014-09-22T14:15:45Z ahungry_ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T14:17:56Z jlongster joined #lisp
2014-09-22T14:17:57Z effy joined #lisp
2014-09-22T14:17:57Z askatasuna joined #lisp
2014-09-22T14:18:14Z loke_: H4ns: I was wrong. I analysed the problem incorrectly.
2014-09-22T14:18:40Z loke_: H4ns: log4cl has nothing to do with it. I get double messages even if I simply print a message in my logger
2014-09-22T14:18:45Z zacts joined #lisp
2014-09-22T14:19:14Z loke_: Just do: (defmethod hunchentoot:acceptor-log-message ((acceptor my-acceptor) log-level fmt &rest args) PRINT-SOMETHING-HERE)
2014-09-22T14:19:32Z loke_: then call (WARN "xyz") in a request handler and the logger will be called twice
2014-09-22T14:19:38Z yrk joined #lisp
2014-09-22T14:19:40Z H4ns: i'm inclined to ask you for more analysis
2014-09-22T14:19:42Z easye: loke_: I'd be interested in the results of your work, as I have a need to make hunchentoor play nice with logging frameworks.
2014-09-22T14:20:17Z loke_: easye: Well, yeah. Once I get this fixed, I want to make sure the log destinations in log4cl are chosen based on request URL
2014-09-22T14:20:26Z loke_: H4ns: I'm analysing as we speak :-)
2014-09-22T14:21:01Z easye: loke_: My use case is that I need to unify hunchentoot's logging with the Tomcat container I have it running in .
2014-09-22T14:21:08Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2014-09-22T14:21:08Z yrk joined #lisp
2014-09-22T14:21:21Z loke_: I pronted a backtrace in the logger function which was then called twice. Here are the two printed stacktraces:
2014-09-22T14:21:46Z loke_: http://paste.lisp.org/display/143808
2014-09-22T14:22:07Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-09-22T14:22:52Z loke_: As far as I can see, they are identical, which is really strange
2014-09-22T14:23:16Z loke_: Stack level 7 is the call to WARN
2014-09-22T14:24:00Z cmack joined #lisp
2014-09-22T14:24:40Z hiyosi joined #lisp
2014-09-22T14:24:41Z drmeiste_ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T14:25:13Z loke_: The funny thing is that the two messages differ in one important aspect: One of them (the second) has a different message. If I do (WARN "foo") the first message is simply "foo". The second is " Warning while processing connection: foo"
2014-09-22T14:25:19Z drmeiste_: Is this how I would recursively find every ".h" file underneath a directory?   (directory "/Users/meister/Development/clasp/src/**/*.h")     It seems to work.
2014-09-22T14:25:19Z mutley89 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-09-22T14:25:38Z Xach: drmeiste_: that's how i often do it.
2014-09-22T14:25:51Z Xach: drmeiste_: the syntax of namestrings is not portable, but ** is common to represent :wild-inferiors
2014-09-22T14:25:53Z drmeister quit (Quit: Leaving...)
2014-09-22T14:25:58Z drmeiste_ is now known as drmeister
2014-09-22T14:26:18Z drmeister: I wrote a CL program to insert copyright notices and I'm applying it to all of my source files in one sweep.
2014-09-22T14:26:32Z drmeister: Scaaarryy stuff - eh kids?
2014-09-22T14:26:56Z wasamasa: drmeister: how is progress on the public release?
2014-09-22T14:27:03Z DGASAU quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T14:27:22Z moore33: Is it still considered cool to put a copyright and license in every file?
2014-09-22T14:28:30Z H4ns: has that ever been considered cool?
2014-09-22T14:28:37Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2014-09-22T14:28:38Z H4ns: i always found it rather annoying.
2014-09-22T14:28:51Z moore33: Btw, that wasn't intended to be snarky; just asking for my own info. I know H4ns' opinion :)
2014-09-22T14:28:54Z oGMo: the FSF still encourages it, and they have lawyers who know
2014-09-22T14:28:55Z drmeister: Cool?  Not at all.  It's what the lawyers said I needed to do.
2014-09-22T14:29:01Z H4ns: like "oh wow comments" \o/ "oh noes just copyright" /o\
2014-09-22T14:29:03Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2014-09-22T14:29:10Z Xach: heh
2014-09-22T14:29:11Z oGMo: ah well there you go
2014-09-22T14:29:26Z drmeister: 1055 files - yikes.
2014-09-22T14:29:32Z oGMo: drmeister: awk is your friend
2014-09-22T14:29:46Z oGMo: or really just find and cat
2014-09-22T14:30:27Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp
2014-09-22T14:30:42Z drmeister: I wrote this to do the job.   https://gist.github.com/drmeister/22340b16f5315e023468
2014-09-22T14:30:52Z easye: I believe there are legal implications for not putting a copyright in every file.
2014-09-22T14:30:56Z Shinmera: I just put a small author & copyright notice in. As long as it's not too long I don't mind.
2014-09-22T14:31:09Z oGMo: that looks like way too much code heh
2014-09-22T14:31:11Z Shinmera: (by small I mean 5 lines)
2014-09-22T14:31:15Z drmeister: It's called "copywrite"...   get it?  it's like a play on words -  copyright - copywrite...   Never mind.
2014-09-22T14:31:37Z H4ns: the good thing about copyrights in each file is that you'll always some extra paper to wipe your ass if you print the stuff
2014-09-22T14:31:42Z drmeister: It applies the copyright if it's missing and removes the old one and re-applies it if it's present.
2014-09-22T14:31:43Z oGMo: drmeister: yes :P
2014-09-22T14:32:04Z loke_: OK
2014-09-22T14:32:08Z loke_: H4ns: I figured it out!
2014-09-22T14:32:34Z H4ns: loke_: shoot!
2014-09-22T14:32:47Z loke_: H4ns: There are two handlers for warnings, each displaying its own message on warnings. One is in (defmethod handle-request ((*acceptor* acceptor) (*request* request))
2014-09-22T14:32:56Z drmeister: This way I can update all of the notices in one sweep.
2014-09-22T14:33:06Z loke_: The other one is the macro with-conditions-caught-and-logged
2014-09-22T14:33:25Z H4ns: loke_: cool, that'd be a genuine bug i'd say
2014-09-22T14:33:44Z loke_: Yes :-)
2014-09-22T14:34:04Z loke_: The macro is called in PROCESS-CONNECTION
2014-09-22T14:34:25Z oudeis quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2014-09-22T14:35:20Z wasamasa is now known as {{{
2014-09-22T14:35:23Z loke_: The one in acceptor shouldn't be there in my opinion. It can be suppressed using the flag *log-lisp-warnings-p*, which is only ever used there
2014-09-22T14:35:44Z hoco4ku joined #lisp
2014-09-22T14:35:54Z eudoxia joined #lisp
2014-09-22T14:36:08Z loke_: Or, perhaps it should be there and it's the other one that should go away?
2014-09-22T14:36:41Z ndrei_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-09-22T14:36:42Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-09-22T14:36:59Z {{{ is now known as wasamasa
2014-09-22T14:37:01Z H4ns: loke_: i tend to think that the macro is good and the explicit code in handle-request should go.
2014-09-22T14:37:30Z drmeister: Alright - I'm pullin' the trigger.
2014-09-22T14:37:54Z wasamasa is now known as }}}
2014-09-22T14:38:19Z drmeister: Fixing bugs....
2014-09-22T14:38:56Z }}} is now known as wasamasa
2014-09-22T14:39:27Z drmeister: It worked. Yay.
2014-09-22T14:39:36Z atgreen joined #lisp
2014-09-22T14:39:38Z drmeister: One less barrier down
2014-09-22T14:39:41Z H4ns: loke_: https://github.com/edicl/hunchentoot/commit/bb8423d67ecc2628acab7c74851c8f443248fe81 ?
2014-09-22T14:39:56Z drmeister: Let's see if it all still compiles
2014-09-22T14:40:22Z loke_: H4ns: Yes, that sounds better
2014-09-22T14:40:26Z loke_: I mean looks better
2014-09-22T14:40:33Z H4ns: loke_: can you try if it works for you?
2014-09-22T14:41:17Z drmeister: Great - it inserts null characters at the end.  ARGH
2014-09-22T14:41:17Z wasamasa is now known as {{{
2014-09-22T14:42:33Z holaquetal joined #lisp
2014-09-22T14:42:50Z JuanitoJons joined #lisp
2014-09-22T14:43:05Z hiyosi joined #lisp
2014-09-22T14:43:39Z stux|RC-only joined #lisp
2014-09-22T14:43:47Z stux|away left #lisp
2014-09-22T14:44:03Z {{{ is now known as wasamasa
2014-09-22T14:45:05Z loke_: H4ns: Argh
2014-09-22T14:45:11Z H4ns: hm?
2014-09-22T14:45:11Z typhonic left #lisp
2014-09-22T14:45:24Z loke_: H4ns: I have fogotten to adjust my code to adapt to your fix for the socket release
2014-09-22T14:45:35Z loke_: Can you remind me what I had to do? It completely slipped my mind
2014-09-22T14:46:35Z Kruppe quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2014-09-22T14:47:15Z H4ns: loke_: https://github.com/edicl/hunchentoot/commit/190c538c5804a05b2618b36f55d28a5ee3e8420e ?
2014-09-22T14:47:24Z H4ns: i'll merge that branch to master now
2014-09-22T14:47:24Z drmeister: What is the quickest way to remove null characters from a string in Common Lisp?
2014-09-22T14:47:50Z H4ns: drmeister: (remove #\nul the-string)
2014-09-22T14:48:08Z drmeister: H4ns: Thank you.
2014-09-22T14:48:14Z prxq: of course, there could be faster ways depending on the implementation.
2014-09-22T14:48:20Z eudoxia quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2014-09-22T14:49:12Z Kruppe joined #lisp
2014-09-22T14:50:38Z loke_: Argh
2014-09-22T14:51:05Z loke_: I hate git... How on earth do I get my form of your repostory to be up to date with the original (yours)
2014-09-22T14:51:22Z H4ns: git pull maybe?
2014-09-22T14:51:40Z loke_: I created a pull request into my own branch from yours, but that only got me one of the ciommits, which put my change in a somaewhat weird state
2014-09-22T14:51:42Z moore33: git fetch + git merge
2014-09-22T14:52:06Z Krystof: drmeister: note that that doesn't alter the-string, it returns a new string that's the same as the-string with all the #\nul s removed
2014-09-22T14:52:13Z drmeister: And what would remove trailing newlines?    (string-right-trim '(#\NEWLINE) str) ?
2014-09-22T14:52:16Z loke_: fatal: No commit specified and merge.defaultToUpstream not set.
2014-09-22T14:52:20Z loke_: that's what it tells me
2014-09-22T14:52:20Z Krystof: (you might know this, H4ns definitely knows this, etc)
2014-09-22T14:52:26Z drmeister: Krystof: Got it.
2014-09-22T14:52:29Z H4ns: loke_: if you don't care about your changes, just check out origin/master again
2014-09-22T14:52:59Z loke_: H4ns: not that easy. My branch of hunchentoot is a submodule of my other project
2014-09-22T14:53:19Z loke_: so unless I want to get myself into a bigger mess, I better keep my own history in my fork
2014-09-22T14:53:20Z jkaye joined #lisp
2014-09-22T14:53:28Z H4ns: loke_: no problem.  git branch -m broken && git checkout master
2014-09-22T14:53:43Z H4ns: loke_: git deals with that all fine.
2014-09-22T14:53:57Z loke_: I did that.
2014-09-22T14:54:00Z marsbot is now known as marsam
2014-09-22T14:54:03Z loke_: But nothing happened
2014-09-22T14:54:17Z H4ns: loke_: git fetch origin
2014-09-22T14:54:21Z billstclair joined #lisp
2014-09-22T14:54:21Z billstclair quit (Changing host)
2014-09-22T14:54:21Z billstclair joined #lisp
2014-09-22T14:54:29Z H4ns: loke_: well, or take a break and read up on git :)
2014-09-22T14:54:38Z loke_: git fetch origin didn't do anything
2014-09-22T14:55:02Z H4ns: loke_: then what commit do you see in "git log origin/master"?
2014-09-22T14:55:16Z H4ns: loke_: the last should be Merge remote-tracking branch 'origin/socket-detaching'
2014-09-22T14:55:17Z holaquetal quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-09-22T14:56:13Z loke_: This is the top of that log command:
2014-09-22T14:56:14Z loke_: http://pastebin.com/cK2bfzXD
2014-09-22T14:56:25Z loke_: git log origin/master
2014-09-22T14:56:37Z drmeister: Ok, this takes care of everything:   (string-right-trim '(#\newline #\linefeed #\nul #\space) result))
2014-09-22T14:56:57Z loke_: drmeister: Why do you have NUL's in the files in the first place?
2014-09-22T14:57:16Z H4ns: loke_: do you maybe have origin be something other than edicl/hunchentoot?
2014-09-22T14:57:31Z effy quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T14:57:34Z loke_: Origin is this:
2014-09-22T14:57:35Z loke_: 	url = git@github.com:lokedhs/hunchentoot.git
2014-09-22T14:57:38Z effy joined #lisp
2014-09-22T14:57:55Z loke_: It's my fork, remember?
2014-09-22T14:58:01Z H4ns: loke_: there you go.  git remote set-url origin git@github.com:edicl/hunchentoot
2014-09-22T14:58:04Z loke_: My problem is that I want my fork to be identical to your main
2014-09-22T14:58:09Z drmeister: loke_: I don't know,  I thought it was something to do with read-sequence:   https://gist.github.com/drmeister/29d744f2dba14d6f6f05
2014-09-22T14:58:11Z H4ns: loke_: i no need to remember, you do :)
2014-09-22T14:58:36Z loke_: H4ns: if I do that I won't be using my own form anymore, will I?
2014-09-22T14:58:56Z H4ns: loke_: right.  you don't need to use your fork unless you want to submit pull requests.
2014-09-22T14:59:10Z H4ns: loke_: you can also use different remotes for upstream and your fork
2014-09-22T14:59:25Z H4ns: loke_: git remote add upstream git@github.com:edicl/hunchentoot
2014-09-22T14:59:31Z loke_: That's the thing. For now I need to, or other things break (the dev server pulls from my fork, among other things)
2014-09-22T15:00:02Z Kruppe quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2014-09-22T15:00:18Z H4ns: loke_: git fetch upstream; git checkout -b master upstream/master
2014-09-22T15:00:38Z loke_: Can't I just do git pull upstream master?
2014-09-22T15:00:38Z H4ns: loke_: or git merge upstream/master into your branch.  whatever.  git.
2014-09-22T15:00:45Z H4ns: loke_: sure you can.
2014-09-22T15:01:05Z loke_: Excellent. Thanks :-)
2014-09-22T15:01:22Z loke_: Now the right thing happened. Github is perhaps not ideal.
2014-09-22T15:01:41Z Kruppe joined #lisp
2014-09-22T15:02:07Z H4ns: "kaum macht man's richtig, funktioniert's"
2014-09-22T15:03:00Z loke_: Mein Deutch is nichts so gut. :-) I weiß nicht was "kaum" ist. :-)
2014-09-22T15:03:26Z loke_: Men vi kan gärna prata svenska om du vill?
2014-09-22T15:03:28Z H4ns: loke_: "it works as soon as you do it correctly"
2014-09-22T15:04:41Z loke_: All right, so for now, if I replace my old call to (setq hunchentoot:*close-hunchentoot-stream* nil), with a call to (detach-socket) it should work?
2014-09-22T15:04:52Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-09-22T15:05:13Z H4ns: loke_: that's the idea, yeas.
2014-09-22T15:05:18Z loke_: We have a military variation of that one: "Gör om. Gör rätt!" (do it again, do it right)
2014-09-22T15:05:27Z H4ns: loke_: you'll need to tell me if it works. :)
2014-09-22T15:05:30Z loke_: All right. Here goes, testing two things at the same time.
2014-09-22T15:05:56Z hitecnologys quit (Quit: hitecnologys)
2014-09-22T15:06:26Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp
2014-09-22T15:06:43Z loke_: Yay!
2014-09-22T15:06:48Z loke_: Both problems seems to be fixed
2014-09-22T15:06:49Z loke_: Thanks!
2014-09-22T15:06:56Z H4ns: \o/
2014-09-22T15:07:03Z H4ns: thank you for your confirmation.
2014-09-22T15:07:19Z H4ns: do you need that as a release or can it wait for a bit?
2014-09-22T15:07:45Z loke_: H4ns: you can wait. Once it's in QL, I can remove my fork
2014-09-22T15:08:42Z mishoo quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T15:09:01Z mishoo joined #lisp
2014-09-22T15:12:48Z JuanitoJons quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T15:16:01Z Denommus quit (Changing host)
2014-09-22T15:16:01Z Denommus joined #lisp
2014-09-22T15:17:34Z hitecnologys joined #lisp
2014-09-22T15:18:28Z marsam is now known as marsbot
2014-09-22T15:18:53Z varjag quit (Quit: Leaving)
2014-09-22T15:20:30Z keen_ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T15:20:40Z karswell` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T15:23:53Z mishoo quit (Quit: (save-lisp-and-die))
2014-09-22T15:24:30Z wheelsucker joined #lisp
2014-09-22T15:25:29Z gravicappa quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T15:29:02Z KCL_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-09-22T15:29:36Z yrk quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2014-09-22T15:29:53Z protist quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2014-09-22T15:29:59Z reb joined #lisp
2014-09-22T15:32:30Z dim: what happens when using buildapp ... --dynamic-space-size 1024 (32 bits build) and then using the resulting binary with, say, 256MB of RAM? swapping?
2014-09-22T15:32:59Z Xach: I wish there was some backchannel for conveying that kind of config info to the runtime.
2014-09-22T15:33:20Z Xach: I want full command-line control AND a way to set some underlying sbcl options at runtime.
2014-09-22T15:33:38Z H4ns: dim: yes, although the dynamic space size just configures the address space.  it does not actually make sbcl allocate that amount of memory.
2014-09-22T15:33:38Z dim: yeah, +1 for that
2014-09-22T15:33:49Z dim: meanwhile, I guess it's not possible?
2014-09-22T15:33:59Z dim: question comes from https://buildd.debian.org/status/package.php?p=pgloader, if you're curious enough
2014-09-22T15:34:29Z dim: H4ns: so if the run actually allocates only, say, 100MB of data, that'd be fine?
2014-09-22T15:34:48Z mishoo joined #lisp
2014-09-22T15:35:08Z bit` quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-09-22T15:35:29Z H4ns: dim: yes.
2014-09-22T15:35:47Z dim: nice, so I should build with 1GB on 32 bit systems then I guess
2014-09-22T15:35:50Z dim: thanks
2014-09-22T15:36:34Z hitecnologys quit (Quit: hitecnologys)
2014-09-22T15:36:38Z H4ns: dim: thing is: if you generate garbage, the garbage collector will not run until you hit the dynamic space size.
2014-09-22T15:36:57Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-09-22T15:37:05Z H4ns: dim: so if you set the size too large, your users may suffice even though your program does not need as much memory.
2014-09-22T15:37:40Z H4ns: dim: so i'd spend a little time to find out how much memory you actually need in your application.
2014-09-22T15:38:23Z dim: I would like to be able to ignore 32 bits users with < 1GB of RAM trying to load data where you actually need > 1 GB at once, but SBCL makes that assessment a tad too aggressive on the users
2014-09-22T15:38:50Z innertracks joined #lisp
2014-09-22T15:39:03Z dim: with CCL pgloader is stable with < 512MB with default parameters
2014-09-22T15:39:18Z dim: with SBCL, there's no controling of the RAM used at runtime
2014-09-22T15:39:31Z dim: it continues blowing on users sometimes
2014-09-22T15:40:40Z hitecnologys joined #lisp
2014-09-22T15:41:02Z oleo is now known as Guest99867
2014-09-22T15:41:07Z DGASAU quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-09-22T15:41:20Z mutley89 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T15:42:43Z oleo__ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T15:42:53Z mishoo quit (Quit: (save-lisp-and-die))
2014-09-22T15:43:20Z jkaye quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T15:43:52Z jkaye joined #lisp
2014-09-22T15:43:57Z Guest99867 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2014-09-22T15:44:37Z kobain joined #lisp
2014-09-22T15:45:04Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2014-09-22T15:45:13Z kobain quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2014-09-22T15:45:26Z kobain joined #lisp
2014-09-22T15:45:26Z kobain quit (Client Quit)
2014-09-22T15:47:33Z loic__ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-09-22T15:49:45Z bit` joined #lisp
2014-09-22T15:50:52Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-09-22T15:51:21Z hiyosi quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0)
2014-09-22T15:51:51Z dim should be able to soon spend time on that point
2014-09-22T15:57:03Z mishoo joined #lisp
2014-09-22T15:57:55Z oleo__ quit (Quit: Verlassend)
2014-09-22T15:58:56Z theos quit (Disconnected by services)
2014-09-22T15:59:28Z theos joined #lisp
2014-09-22T15:59:45Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-09-22T16:01:36Z pt1 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T16:03:28Z ltbarcly joined #lisp
2014-09-22T16:03:43Z oleo__ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T16:03:58Z oleo__ is now known as oleo
2014-09-22T16:05:24Z kreuter joined #lisp
2014-09-22T16:05:49Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-09-22T16:06:00Z kreuter: howdy, #lisp. did common-lisp.net's ssh host key change in the last couple days?
2014-09-22T16:06:14Z atgreen quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T16:07:30Z mishoo quit (Quit: (save-lisp-and-die))
2014-09-22T16:07:41Z moore33 quit
2014-09-22T16:07:57Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T16:08:57Z oudeis joined #lisp
2014-09-22T16:09:46Z edgar-rft joined #lisp
2014-09-22T16:10:03Z shamaz joined #lisp
2014-09-22T16:10:45Z mishoo joined #lisp
2014-09-22T16:11:50Z DGASAU quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-09-22T16:12:00Z ltbarcly quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2014-09-22T16:12:14Z shamaz: Hello. Is this construction: `#(#x3 #x5 ,@(loop repeat 4 collect 1)) portable in common lisp? I mean, must all cl implementations read it in the same way?
2014-09-22T16:14:24Z Bike: let's see. «`#(x1 x2 x3 ... xn) may be interpreted to mean (apply #'vector `(x1 x2 x3 ... xn))»
2014-09-22T16:14:41Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2014-09-22T16:15:13Z Bike: unfortunately, sbcl doesn't seem to agree...
2014-09-22T16:15:14Z rp__ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T16:16:05Z shamaz: New versions give #(3 5 (1 1 1 1)) and old ones give #(3 5 1 1 1 1)
2014-09-22T16:16:08Z Bike: `#(... ,@(loop ...) ...) works though. maybe this is a bug.
2014-09-22T16:17:06Z Okasu joined #lisp
2014-09-22T16:17:12Z Xach: not all kinks fully worked out :~(
2014-09-22T16:17:14Z fe[nl]ix: hi kreuter :)
2014-09-22T16:17:25Z fe[nl]ix: long time no see
2014-09-22T16:17:35Z Bike: shamaz: by the way, if you're just collecting a constant you can do (make-list 4 :initial-element 1)
2014-09-22T16:17:37Z kreuter: hello again.
2014-09-22T16:18:03Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-09-22T16:18:41Z theos quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T16:18:54Z oudeis quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2014-09-22T16:19:49Z holaquetal joined #lisp
2014-09-22T16:19:56Z fe[nl]ix: kreuter: see the last two posts on planet.lisp.org
2014-09-22T16:20:20Z ndrei joined #lisp
2014-09-22T16:20:24Z ndrei_ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T16:20:41Z theos joined #lisp
2014-09-22T16:20:57Z zacharias joined #lisp
2014-09-22T16:21:00Z shamaz: Bike, thanks. I am doing something more like (make-array (length list) :inital-contents list), but using reader. It is for unit tests
2014-09-22T16:21:02Z zacharias quit (Changing host)
2014-09-22T16:21:02Z zacharias joined #lisp
2014-09-22T16:21:38Z Bike: shamaz: well, i think it is supposed to work the same across lisps but sbcl is a bit buggy. they rewrote their backquote handling lately, maybe something went wrong
2014-09-22T16:21:58Z jasom: shamaz: `(x1 x2 x3 ... xn . ,@form) has undefined consequences.
2014-09-22T16:21:58Z nyef: shamaz: Why not #.(make-array (length list) :initial-contents list) ?
2014-09-22T16:22:03Z jasom: clhs `
2014-09-22T16:22:04Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_df.htm
2014-09-22T16:22:15Z oudeis joined #lisp
2014-09-22T16:22:22Z Bike: jasom: there's no dot in their sample is there
2014-09-22T16:22:45Z jasom: Bike: oh, sorry, was looking in the wrong place
2014-09-22T16:22:58Z jasom:  `#(x1 x2 x3 ... xn) may be interpreted to mean (apply #'vector `(x1 x2 x3 ... xn))
2014-09-22T16:23:47Z jasom: so shamaz's example should work correctly
2014-09-22T16:23:55Z shamaz: nyef, it's good idea. But maybe I need to report a bug, I don't know yet
2014-09-22T16:24:15Z oudeis quit (Client Quit)
2014-09-22T16:24:56Z Bike: `#(4 ,@(list)) and (apply #'vector `(4 ,@(list))) give different results on sbcl, but `#(4 ,@(list) 5) and (apply #'vector `(4 ,@(list) 5))) don't
2014-09-22T16:25:21Z ecraven quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-09-22T16:26:17Z ineiros quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-09-22T16:26:30Z ineiros joined #lisp
2014-09-22T16:27:03Z mvilleneuve_ quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2014-09-22T16:27:10Z izirku_ quit (Quit: OUCH!!!)
2014-09-22T16:28:18Z shamaz: Situation in clisp is not that simple to: when you try it in REPL it works as many of you expect: `#(12 2 ,@(loop repeat 4 collect 4)) => #(12 2 4 4 4 4)
2014-09-22T16:28:34Z shamaz: *simple too
2014-09-22T16:30:05Z nyef: No, "simple either".
2014-09-22T16:30:36Z shamaz: But when you load a file with such construction it gives: #<COMPILED-FUNCTION %INNER-TEST-READ-SIMPLE-FRAME>: too many return values
2014-09-22T16:30:42Z shamaz: nyef, thanks ;)
2014-09-22T16:31:13Z pgomes quit (Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client)
2014-09-22T16:32:02Z Bike: that's uh, interesting :/
2014-09-22T16:34:53Z shamaz: I think, I should avoid such constructions. Seems not to be a bug
2014-09-22T16:34:56Z yrk joined #lisp
2014-09-22T16:35:39Z Xach: I think implementations continue to have basic bugs in areas that are not well-exercised by fashion and idiom.
2014-09-22T16:35:42Z nyef: My initial interpretation is actually that it IS a bug, and not necessarily a rare one.
2014-09-22T16:36:07Z yrk quit (Changing host)
2014-09-22T16:36:07Z yrk joined #lisp
2014-09-22T16:36:07Z Xach: I wish the test suite was still a going concern
2014-09-22T16:37:11Z nyef: I distinctly remember spending some time a couple years ago tearing apart SBCL's implementation of SETF to more-correctly handle multiple-value cases.
2014-09-22T16:37:13Z jlarocco quit (Quit: Leaving)
2014-09-22T16:38:16Z jordonbiondo joined #lisp
2014-09-22T16:38:33Z shamaz: nyef, OK, I will report this.
2014-09-22T16:40:11Z jordonbiondo: I think I'm missing simple here: I have class C which extends class B which extends class A, I'm trying to do (slot-value instance-of-C 'slot-from-A) and getting an error, how can I access slots from B and A on an instance of C?
2014-09-22T16:41:44Z ggole: Does the slot have a value?
2014-09-22T16:42:33Z ltbarcly joined #lisp
2014-09-22T16:43:18Z rme: Are the symbols naming the slots in A in a different package from the one you're in?
2014-09-22T16:44:27Z hiyosi joined #lisp
2014-09-22T16:45:36Z jordonbiondo: they have a default value yes, A and B and defined in a different package than C
2014-09-22T16:45:55Z ehu joined #lisp
2014-09-22T16:46:59Z jordonbiondo: ahhh I have have to do (slot-value c-instance other-package:slot-from-B)
2014-09-22T16:48:46Z TomRS: I generally put my impementation stuff in one package, then I don't have this problem :)
2014-09-22T16:48:47Z bambams_ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T16:51:07Z jordonbiondo: TomRS: What do you mean exactly? I'm extending a class from a third party package.
2014-09-22T16:52:54Z ggole: Then you have to qualify the slot name
2014-09-22T16:53:27Z TomRS: jordonbiondo: oh.. then continue doing what you do :) I'm a noob and only work on simple stuff in my own package. I only have two packages. one for implementation stuff and one for testing the implementation :D
2014-09-22T16:53:29Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-09-22T16:53:42Z jtza8 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T16:54:24Z gendl_ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T16:55:08Z jkaye quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T16:55:16Z TomRS has never extended a class from a third package
2014-09-22T16:55:22Z uzo quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2014-09-22T16:55:34Z TomRS: jordonbiondo: but thanks for sharing :)
2014-09-22T16:55:42Z jkaye joined #lisp
2014-09-22T16:55:57Z DGASAU quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T16:56:33Z JuanitoJons joined #lisp
2014-09-22T16:57:55Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2014-09-22T16:59:52Z jkaye quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-09-22T17:01:09Z gendl_ quit (Quit: gendl_)
2014-09-22T17:01:33Z gendl_ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T17:02:56Z gendl_ quit (Client Quit)
2014-09-22T17:02:58Z shamaz: BTW, sbcl 1.2.3 reads backquote correctly
2014-09-22T17:03:40Z kreuter: fe[nl]ix: thanks. hadn't thought of looking at planet.lisp.
2014-09-22T17:03:40Z Paul_McFreely_ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T17:04:28Z shamaz: bye
2014-09-22T17:04:30Z shamaz quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2014-09-22T17:06:50Z Paul_McFreely quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-09-22T17:07:58Z `JRG quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2014-09-22T17:08:35Z ltbarcly quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2014-09-22T17:08:40Z hitecnologys quit (Quit: hitecnologys)
2014-09-22T17:09:00Z hitecnologys joined #lisp
2014-09-22T17:10:37Z effy quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-09-22T17:11:16Z Paul_McFreely_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-09-22T17:12:23Z ndrei_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-09-22T17:12:44Z innertracks joined #lisp
2014-09-22T17:12:56Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-09-22T17:13:15Z DGASAU quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T17:14:03Z DrCode quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T17:14:53Z DrCode joined #lisp
2014-09-22T17:15:22Z DGASAU joined #lisp
2014-09-22T17:18:23Z devon quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T17:18:45Z jegaxd26 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T17:19:09Z MoALTz joined #lisp
2014-09-22T17:19:28Z DrCode quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds)
2014-09-22T17:21:56Z DrCode joined #lisp
2014-09-22T17:23:42Z mutley89 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2014-09-22T17:25:44Z nicdev quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T17:27:52Z effy joined #lisp
2014-09-22T17:33:33Z bit` quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-09-22T17:35:49Z arenz quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-09-22T17:36:48Z jkaye joined #lisp
2014-09-22T17:37:49Z hitecnologys quit (Quit: hitecnologys)
2014-09-22T17:39:54Z KCL_ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T17:41:16Z klltkr joined #lisp
2014-09-22T17:41:37Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-09-22T17:44:49Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-09-22T17:48:24Z bit` joined #lisp
2014-09-22T17:53:15Z oudeis joined #lisp
2014-09-22T17:54:16Z sroy_ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T18:00:58Z woozygeek quit (Max SendQ exceeded)
2014-09-22T18:05:03Z ndrei joined #lisp
2014-09-22T18:05:06Z ndrei_ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T18:08:09Z zacharias joined #lisp
2014-09-22T18:09:27Z posterdati300 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-09-22T18:09:44Z kobain joined #lisp
2014-09-22T18:09:49Z marvimias quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T18:11:12Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp
2014-09-22T18:12:23Z KCL joined #lisp
2014-09-22T18:12:25Z Petit_Dejeuner_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2014-09-22T18:15:01Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-09-22T18:15:17Z KCL_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-09-22T18:16:51Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-09-22T18:16:52Z ndrei_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-09-22T18:18:15Z kushal quit (Quit: Leaving)
2014-09-22T18:18:34Z mutley89 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T18:18:35Z ndrei joined #lisp
2014-09-22T18:18:56Z ndrei_ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T18:19:22Z yrk quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-09-22T18:19:46Z ehu joined #lisp
2014-09-22T18:21:52Z nicdev joined #lisp
2014-09-22T18:22:55Z jkaye quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T18:23:23Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-09-22T18:23:24Z jkaye joined #lisp
2014-09-22T18:23:35Z ndrei_ quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-09-22T18:24:06Z SvenGek joined #lisp
2014-09-22T18:24:38Z ndrei joined #lisp
2014-09-22T18:24:58Z duggiefresh quit
2014-09-22T18:24:59Z ndrei_ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T18:28:15Z ltbarcly joined #lisp
2014-09-22T18:34:06Z ecraven joined #lisp
2014-09-22T18:37:53Z pt1 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T18:38:03Z mhd joined #lisp
2014-09-22T18:42:11Z buckling joined #lisp
2014-09-22T18:45:30Z Ven joined #lisp
2014-09-22T18:46:23Z fikusz joined #lisp
2014-09-22T18:49:36Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T18:53:16Z sdemarre joined #lisp
2014-09-22T18:56:26Z varjag_ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T19:02:41Z yeticry quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-09-22T19:02:45Z sroy_ quit (Quit: Leaving)
2014-09-22T19:03:11Z yeticry joined #lisp
2014-09-22T19:03:28Z wilfredh quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity)
2014-09-22T19:07:19Z kreuter: cd
2014-09-22T19:08:48Z ltbarcly_ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T19:12:06Z ltbarcly quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-09-22T19:12:26Z ryankarason: bash: cd: /home/kreuter: No such file or directory
2014-09-22T19:13:04Z nyef: Eesh. Massive lag, plus home directories on a crashed NFS server?
2014-09-22T19:15:18Z Oberon4278 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T19:16:23Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2014-09-22T19:16:44Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2014-09-22T19:17:53Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-09-22T19:18:52Z Patzy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-09-22T19:19:49Z Patzy joined #lisp
2014-09-22T19:23:12Z Jesin joined #lisp
2014-09-22T19:27:40Z jkaye quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T19:31:37Z TomRS: how can I roughly check values for equality? I have a test failure now because it says 0.0024000000000000002 is not 0.0024
2014-09-22T19:32:15Z H4ns: TomRS: you can compare the absolute value of the difference of the two values to some small epsilon
2014-09-22T19:32:29Z ehu joined #lisp
2014-09-22T19:32:35Z TomRS: H4ns: thanks! is there a builtin function?
2014-09-22T19:32:46Z H4ns: TomRS: i don't think so.
2014-09-22T19:32:55Z H4ns: TomRS: (< (abs (- a b)) +epsilon+)
2014-09-22T19:32:58Z TomRS: H4ns: ok thanks!! Will do this then
2014-09-22T19:33:06Z TomRS: H4ns: you're quick!!!!
2014-09-22T19:33:11Z TomRS: H4ns: thanks!!!
2014-09-22T19:34:09Z `JRG joined #lisp
2014-09-22T19:37:10Z Grue`: (= (rationalize a) (rationalize b))
2014-09-22T19:37:59Z jkaye joined #lisp
2014-09-22T19:38:03Z TomRS: Grue`: thanks! didn't know about this!
2014-09-22T19:38:08Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2014-09-22T19:38:12Z Grue`: nah that probably wouldn't work
2014-09-22T19:38:21Z Grue`: use H4ns's method
2014-09-22T19:38:40Z TomRS learns new stuff every day :) - keeps using H4ns solution though :D
2014-09-22T19:39:01Z TomRS: thanks!
2014-09-22T19:39:03Z sheilong joined #lisp
2014-09-22T19:40:42Z bit` quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-09-22T19:41:14Z TomRS: <test-run: 1 tests, 32 assertions, 0 failures in 0.001f0 sec>
2014-09-22T19:41:21Z TomRS: thanks H4ns !
2014-09-22T19:43:03Z redline6561: PuercoPop: ping
2014-09-22T19:43:26Z jasom: round will work and will be scale-independent, but will be a lot slower than H4ns' method
2014-09-22T19:43:55Z jordonbiondo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-09-22T19:44:06Z jasom: at some distance from zero, H4ns' method becomes equivalent to equality (when epsilon is smaller than 1ULP)
2014-09-22T19:44:48Z Alfr joined #lisp
2014-09-22T19:45:01Z jasom: and in the other direction, it will always be true (when epsilon is larger than both a and b)
2014-09-22T19:45:09Z TomRS: yeah I like the epsilon check. was looking for that. thought there might be an integrated function for it already.
2014-09-22T19:45:44Z Grue`: integrated heh
2014-09-22T19:45:44Z TomRS: jasom: true
2014-09-22T19:46:01Z TomRS: included
2014-09-22T19:46:01Z jasom: but (= (round a 1e6) (round b 1e6)) will work to the same significance regardless of the scales of a and b
2014-09-22T19:46:23Z jlongster quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2014-09-22T19:46:45Z TomRS: Grue`: built-in is the word i guess
2014-09-22T19:47:21Z Grue`: i'm just pointing out a possible pun, because integrals use epsilons and stuff
2014-09-22T19:47:21Z TomRS: Grue`: I'm not a not a native speaker :)
2014-09-22T19:47:50Z jasom: TomRS: you used the right word, just Grue` was making a joke
2014-09-22T19:47:51Z TomRS: in german integriert == built-in... so forget what I said :D
2014-09-22T19:48:27Z jasom: also, using apostrophes with the name H4ns feils weird, I should be using Genitiv
2014-09-22T19:48:57Z TomRS: :D
2014-09-22T19:49:14Z alexherbo2 quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T19:49:23Z TomRS: ok guys, gotta go. nough for the day. see you tomorrow! thanks @all
2014-09-22T19:50:44Z Ralt joined #lisp
2014-09-22T19:51:03Z segv- quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2014-09-22T19:53:05Z TomRS quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T19:55:51Z bit` joined #lisp
2014-09-22T19:57:18Z angavrilov quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T19:58:23Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-09-22T19:58:44Z hiroakip joined #lisp
2014-09-22T19:59:57Z Ralt quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T20:01:13Z Ralt joined #lisp
2014-09-22T20:03:08Z marsbot is now known as marsam
2014-09-22T20:06:08Z malbertife joined #lisp
2014-09-22T20:07:51Z rp__ quit (Quit: leaving)
2014-09-22T20:11:47Z farhaven quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T20:11:47Z mishoo quit (Quit: (save-lisp-and-die))
2014-09-22T20:11:55Z farhaven joined #lisp
2014-09-22T20:12:36Z rp__ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T20:13:30Z vanila joined #lisp
2014-09-22T20:14:55Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T20:17:12Z mishoo joined #lisp
2014-09-22T20:17:32Z posterdati300 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T20:20:12Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-09-22T20:23:11Z Petit_Dejeuner_ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T20:24:33Z sdemarre quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-09-22T20:25:43Z drmeister: Does anyone do any low level, disassembly debugging on X86_64?
2014-09-22T20:26:20Z drmeister: I'd love some help debugging a low level problem that I ran into a couple of days ago.
2014-09-22T20:27:03Z vanila: drmeister, the #asm channel is nice
2014-09-22T20:27:15Z drmeister: Good idea.
2014-09-22T20:27:19Z drmeister: Freenode?
2014-09-22T20:27:22Z vanila: yeah
2014-09-22T20:29:34Z bambams_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2014-09-22T20:31:20Z ehu joined #lisp
2014-09-22T20:31:21Z resttime joined #lisp
2014-09-22T20:32:52Z buckling: maybe capstone, but the choice depends from the architecture...it's better to try
2014-09-22T20:34:56Z zacharias_ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T20:35:52Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds)
2014-09-22T20:36:22Z innertracks joined #lisp
2014-09-22T20:37:26Z zacharias_ is now known as zacharias
2014-09-22T20:37:34Z madrik quit (Quit: sleep)
2014-09-22T20:38:12Z Ven joined #lisp
2014-09-22T20:38:37Z stassats joined #lisp
2014-09-22T20:40:52Z Okasu quit (Quit: leaving)
2014-09-22T20:41:30Z Okasu joined #lisp
2014-09-22T20:46:49Z buckling quit (Quit: Lost terminal)
2014-09-22T20:53:27Z kobain quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2014-09-22T20:54:00Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2014-09-22T20:55:52Z holaquetal quit (Quit: Saliendo)
2014-09-22T20:56:01Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks)
2014-09-22T20:56:50Z posterdati300 quit (Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/)
2014-09-22T20:58:04Z stacksmith joined #lisp
2014-09-22T21:00:02Z atgreen joined #lisp
2014-09-22T21:01:22Z stacksmith: G'day everyone.
2014-09-22T21:01:40Z pjb: Good day stacksmith.
2014-09-22T21:02:08Z ehu_ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T21:02:30Z stacksmith: Away for a week, now I can't remember the Emacs keybindings... Or any of that CL stuff :)
2014-09-22T21:03:30Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2014-09-22T21:03:38Z ehu_ is now known as ehu
2014-09-22T21:04:15Z wasamasa: fun fun fun
2014-09-22T21:04:37Z pjb: Adlai: Krystof:  CL method combinations are monads.
2014-09-22T21:06:08Z willprice94 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T21:06:16Z innertracks joined #lisp
2014-09-22T21:07:05Z willprice94: I'm reading "The little schemer", and it refers to "natural recursion", could someone elaborate what this term means? I've tried googling, but it doesn't seem to be a widely used term.
2014-09-22T21:07:23Z Bicyclidine: sounds unique to the book. what's the context?
2014-09-22T21:08:26Z Krystof: pjb: please direct your messages to the right person
2014-09-22T21:08:36Z napule joined #lisp
2014-09-22T21:08:45Z willprice94: Bicyclidine, The little schemer has quite an odd format, it's two columns, one column is only questions, and the other column is answers. The question: What is another name for (x n (sub1 m)) in this case? Answer: It's the natural recursion for x.
2014-09-22T21:09:13Z JuanitoJons quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T21:09:29Z Bicyclidine: what, and there's no previous reference to the term?
2014-09-22T21:09:30Z White_Flame: and what's "this case"?
2014-09-22T21:09:37Z willprice94: Bicyclidine, but it's also referenced several times before, like "What is the natural terminal condition for numbers? (zero? n). What is the natural recursion on a number? (sub1 n)."
2014-09-22T21:10:05Z White_Flame: is this dealing with Church numerals?
2014-09-22T21:10:09Z stacksmith: willprice94: sounds like it has something to do with 'sub1'
2014-09-22T21:10:26Z Bicyclidine: i guess you could derive those conditions from the usual definition of naturals.
2014-09-22T21:11:16Z willprice94: White_Flame, not that I know of.
2014-09-22T21:12:17Z willprice94: Bicyclidine, White_Flame, it comes up in the context of defining multiplication as (lambda (n m) (cond ((zero? m) 0) (else (+ n (* n (sub1 m))))))
2014-09-22T21:13:45Z White_Flame: willprice94: since that lambda isn't recursive, it's hard to see what's being asked
2014-09-22T21:14:21Z willprice94: White_Flame, sorry, around that should be a (define * <code>)
2014-09-22T21:14:23Z pjb: prxq: the DNS knows who controls paste.lisp.org DUH!  nslookup -soa paste.lisp.org
2014-09-22T21:14:26Z White_Flame: I'm presuming sub1 is subtract by 1, not some subroutine
2014-09-22T21:14:33Z willprice94: White_Flame, that is correct.
2014-09-22T21:14:44Z pjb: Krystof: sorry.
2014-09-22T21:14:46Z pjb: s/K/k/
2014-09-22T21:15:12Z White_Flame: willprice94: This is a Common Lisp channel.  If those terms are very specific to how Scheme is taught, i tmight not be well known here
2014-09-22T21:15:19Z oudeis quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2014-09-22T21:16:26Z Bicyclidine: i don't remember the term coming up in SICP.
2014-09-22T21:16:36Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks)
2014-09-22T21:16:38Z White_Flame: the two types of recursion I'd generally point out would be intentional recursion (usually within the same or local functions), and incidental recursion (which happens across your app and can be problematic)
2014-09-22T21:16:46Z willprice94: White_Flame, my mistake, I hadn't realised that this was particular to CL. Rereading the examples I believe that the term refers to most used recursive call in the function definition
2014-09-22T21:17:14Z innertracks joined #lisp
2014-09-22T21:18:33Z kuzy000_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2014-09-22T21:19:23Z White_Flame: wikipedia doesn't now about "natural recursion" on its recursion page either
2014-09-22T21:20:01Z willprice94: White_Flame, yeah, I tried all those things before coming on IRC, it seems to be particular to the book, yet is never explicitly defined (at least not before it's used in the text!)
2014-09-22T21:20:06Z work_op joined #lisp
2014-09-22T21:20:27Z napule left #lisp
2014-09-22T21:21:23Z jkaye quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T21:21:52Z jkaye joined #lisp
2014-09-22T21:22:52Z stassats quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-09-22T21:23:19Z francogrex joined #lisp
2014-09-22T21:23:58Z stacksmith: willprice94: is sub1 a built-in '1-' in scheme or is it something the author defines previously?
2014-09-22T21:23:58Z rp__ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-09-22T21:24:22Z willprice94: stacksmith, it's a builtin
2014-09-22T21:25:35Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2014-09-22T21:26:14Z stacksmith: willprice94: I think he is just generically defining a way to describe numbers recursively - to make a point...
2014-09-22T21:27:13Z nug700 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T21:27:19Z stacksmith: As in to count fingers, chop off a finger and count fingers.  When you reach 0, the cumulative chopped fingers are your answer...
2014-09-22T21:27:43Z yacks quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-09-22T21:27:51Z marsam is now known as marsbot
2014-09-22T21:28:15Z willprice94: stacksmith, definitely not particular to numbers as he uses the term regarding lists too
2014-09-22T21:29:22Z stacksmith: Well, to operate on lists, chop off a finger...
2014-09-22T21:29:40Z Shinmera quit (Quit: しつれいしなければならないんです)
2014-09-22T21:29:54Z willprice94: I think the term first comes up with: Q: What is the natural terminal condition for a list? (null? l). Q: What is used in the natural recursion on a list? (cdr lat)
2014-09-22T21:30:25Z stacksmith: I think by 'natural' he means the really obvious kind of recursion.
2014-09-22T21:30:46Z willprice94: stacksmith, Yep, I think you're right, at least, that's the definition that makes the most sense reading the text.
2014-09-22T21:31:09Z rp__ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T21:31:10Z willprice94: Bicyclidine, White_Flame, stacksmith, thank you all for your help.
2014-09-22T21:31:23Z ggole quit
2014-09-22T21:33:03Z oudeis joined #lisp
2014-09-22T21:33:40Z stacksmith: willprice94: sometimes the author tries to explain a concept in the most jargon-free way, while the reader tries to keep up with the experts by imagining something more complicated.
2014-09-22T21:34:10Z willprice94: stacksmith, I think your right ;)
2014-09-22T21:34:36Z sheilong quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!)
2014-09-22T21:35:17Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-09-22T21:35:42Z francogrex quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs))
2014-09-22T21:35:44Z kobain joined #lisp
2014-09-22T21:38:57Z willprice94 quit (Quit: Leaving)
2014-09-22T21:42:50Z Petit_Dejeuner_: I'm getting an asdf error while trying to use closure-template. https://www.refheap.com/05581a70b5701227829adf38c Does my asd file look okay? https://www.refheap.com/6130c372e3e033917d4864ee8 i can't see anything wrong with it.
2014-09-22T21:43:00Z drewc quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T21:43:13Z Petit_Dejeuner_: If I attempt to quickload my project, I get the error, but the second time it works.
2014-09-22T21:43:37Z Petit_Dejeuner_: Restarting inferior-lisp and quickloading reproduces the problem.
2014-09-22T21:45:13Z drewc joined #lisp
2014-09-22T21:45:57Z Bicyclidine: is closure-template an asdf component type?
2014-09-22T21:46:14Z Bicyclidine: if so you probably need to have closure-template loaded before the system is parsed at all.
2014-09-22T21:46:25Z Bicyclidine: oh, that's what the defsystem-depends-on is for, sorry.
2014-09-22T21:46:34Z `JRG quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2014-09-22T21:47:00Z Bicyclidine: Oh. You have an extra close parenthesis after that component.
2014-09-22T21:47:28Z Petit_Dejeuner_: Wow.
2014-09-22T21:47:39Z Petit_Dejeuner_: I'd thought I'd gotten past that kind of thing by now.
2014-09-22T21:47:43Z Petit_Dejeuner_: Thanks.
2014-09-22T21:48:44Z klltkr quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2014-09-22T21:49:13Z klltkr joined #lisp
2014-09-22T21:49:24Z klltkr quit (Client Quit)
2014-09-22T21:49:58Z klltkr joined #lisp
2014-09-22T21:50:08Z klltkr quit (Client Quit)
2014-09-22T21:54:19Z jegaxd26 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds)
2014-09-22T21:54:29Z dkcl quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2014-09-22T21:56:48Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.)
2014-09-22T21:56:50Z drmeiste_ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T21:57:34Z ltbarcly_ quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2014-09-22T21:57:57Z drmeister quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T21:57:58Z wheelsucker quit (Quit: Client Quit)
2014-09-22T22:01:25Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-09-22T22:02:21Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2014-09-22T22:03:55Z newcup joined #lisp
2014-09-22T22:04:59Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-09-22T22:05:11Z drmeister joined #lisp
2014-09-22T22:09:35Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-09-22T22:11:28Z stacksmith: Do I need to create a Quicklisp issue after making a bugfix on github for a project?
2014-09-22T22:12:28Z sz0 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T22:14:39Z stacksmith: How does Quicklisp propagate changes to the master?
2014-09-22T22:14:53Z Elench` joined #lisp
2014-09-22T22:16:13Z Elench quit (Killed (holmes.freenode.net (Nickname regained by services)))
2014-09-22T22:16:13Z Elench` is now known as Elench
2014-09-22T22:16:15Z faheem__1: don't CL projects make releases any more?
2014-09-22T22:16:23Z oudeis quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep)
2014-09-22T22:16:29Z faheem__1: seems to be out of fashion or something
2014-09-22T22:17:39Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T22:18:52Z faheem__1: stacksmith: judging by the issues there, you need to file an issue to get a library updated.
2014-09-22T22:20:06Z dmiles_afk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T22:20:07Z dmiles_afk joined #lisp
2014-09-22T22:20:41Z stacksmith: faheem__1: Looking at the open issues, see no 'update' requests...
2014-09-22T22:21:41Z Bicyclidine: i think xach goes through and updates things every month?
2014-09-22T22:22:09Z Bicyclidine: so no, i don't think you need to make an issue particularly for quicklisp, unless it's something urgent somehow
2014-09-22T22:23:33Z hiyosi joined #lisp
2014-09-22T22:27:05Z prxq quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-09-22T22:29:05Z faheem__1: stacksmith: i recall seeing a few. maybe i misremember.
2014-09-22T22:30:02Z faheem__1: Bicyclidine: i don't see how that would work. does he just pick the most recent version in a repos? and if so, how does he know it is not broken? since CL projects don't seem to make releases much.
2014-09-22T22:31:04Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds)
2014-09-22T22:31:46Z Longlius joined #lisp
2014-09-22T22:36:25Z Bicyclidine: i think he tries building it and maybe running the tests. you can see in the updates he usually updates a ton of projects. http://blog.quicklisp.org/
2014-09-22T22:36:38Z Bicyclidine: of course it would be more practical to just ask when Xach is around.
2014-09-22T22:38:28Z drmeister quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer)
2014-09-22T22:40:18Z askatasuna quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.0)
2014-09-22T22:42:41Z faheem__1: Bicyclidine: ok. of course, what happens if the project doesn't have tests? The usual way to handle this is to have releases, but that doesn't seem to to happen a lot, as I've already mentioned twice.
2014-09-22T22:45:33Z phao joined #lisp
2014-09-22T22:46:54Z drmeister joined #lisp
2014-09-22T22:50:48Z eazar001 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-09-22T22:51:14Z robot-beethoven joined #lisp
2014-09-22T22:55:33Z marsbot is now known as marsam
2014-09-22T22:57:19Z marsam is now known as marsbot
2014-09-22T22:57:30Z mhd quit (Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…)
2014-09-22T22:59:27Z drmeiste_ quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T23:00:06Z drmeiste_ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T23:00:07Z nyef sighs.
2014-09-22T23:00:23Z nyef: No wonder some other languages have a more stable infrastructure than CL does.
2014-09-22T23:00:28Z vaporatorius quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T23:00:43Z nyef: drmeiste_: Did you get your asm issue sorted out?
2014-09-22T23:02:08Z drmeister: Hmm, which asm issue is that?   I encounter bugs, fix bugs, forget bugs at a terrific rate.
2014-09-22T23:02:45Z drmeister: I've considered tattooing bugs to my body to help me recall them.
2014-09-22T23:02:48Z nyef: Two and a half hours ago, you asked about x86-64 assembly debugging skills and were directed to #asm.
2014-09-22T23:03:02Z drmeister: Ah, yes, that was a fascinating one.
2014-09-22T23:03:06Z nyef: I've been busy since before then, otherwise I'd've jumped in then.
2014-09-22T23:04:06Z drmeister: I figured it out.  I started by stepping through x86 instruction by instruction and it was clear that in two sequential function calls the first was not passing the value to the second in the right register.
2014-09-22T23:04:17Z drmeister: I suspected that perhaps there was a bug in LLVM and register allocation.
2014-09-22T23:04:27Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds)
2014-09-22T23:04:34Z nyef: Heh.
2014-09-22T23:04:37Z nyef: minion: advice on compiler
2014-09-22T23:04:38Z minion: #12000: Looking for a compiler bug is the second-to-last resort. The last resort is blaming bad RAM. It's never the correct hypothesis.
2014-09-22T23:04:38Z drmeister: Then I went into ##asm and they said "use the source".
2014-09-22T23:04:49Z oGMo: "debug dodd"
2014-09-22T23:05:05Z drmeister: So I looked at the LLVM-IR source that generated that machine code and lo and behold - it too was mangled!
2014-09-22T23:05:07Z vanila: asm is hard, im just starting to learn it
2014-09-22T23:05:19Z drmeister: Then I looked at the unoptimized LLVM-IR that I generate and it was fine.
2014-09-22T23:05:30Z drmeister: So I immediately suspected the LLVM optimizers.
2014-09-22T23:05:39Z drmeister: So I started turning them off one by one.
2014-09-22T23:05:42Z Denommus quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in)
2014-09-22T23:06:01Z nyef: vanila: Depends on the ASM. There are sane architectures and completely nuts architectures... and x86oids are in the latter category.
2014-09-22T23:06:07Z Alfr quit (Quit: Leaving)
2014-09-22T23:06:08Z drmeister: Then I realized that I had set up a module pass manager by calling two set up functions that should only be called alone.
2014-09-22T23:06:33Z nyef: Okay, so you were violating some basic constraint?
2014-09-22T23:06:33Z vanila: yeah im learning x86 because thats my computer
2014-09-22T23:06:37Z Denommus joined #lisp
2014-09-22T23:06:46Z drmeister: Well, none of this stuff is documented anywhere.
2014-09-22T23:06:57Z nyef: ... Of course. /-:
2014-09-22T23:07:00Z vanila: wrote game of life - wonder if there's any way to eget lisp invovled in learning asm
2014-09-22T23:07:44Z meiji11 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T23:07:48Z drmeister: I had to read the source of PassManagerBuilder::populateLTOPassManager and PassManagerBuilder::populateModulePassManager to see that they added a lot of the same passes to the PassManager.
2014-09-22T23:08:04Z drmeister: It's probably a bad idea to duplicate optimization passes.
2014-09-22T23:08:30Z nyef: vanila: I'd point you to a tarball of examples where I used SBCL's x86 assembler to spit out Win32 PE executables, but it was a rather extreme hack and my website is down.
2014-09-22T23:08:32Z freaksken quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-09-22T23:08:45Z drmeister: Anway - I stopped calling populateModulePassManager and I just use populateLTOPassManager because I want everything to inline everything else - and it works.  No more mangled LLVM-IR.
2014-09-22T23:09:10Z drmeister thinks he might have some room on his ankle to tattoo this one.
2014-09-22T23:09:29Z Bicyclidine joined #lisp
2014-09-22T23:09:30Z mhd joined #lisp
2014-09-22T23:09:34Z White_Flame: A debugging session at our last company ended up having Intel verify that our chip did, indeed, have faulty instruction cache RAM
2014-09-22T23:09:35Z mhd quit (Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com)
2014-09-22T23:09:35Z mhd quit (Client Quit)
2014-09-22T23:09:38Z Oberon4278 quit
2014-09-22T23:09:50Z nyef: drmeister: Hrm. I'd've figured that "optimization" passes shouldn't BREAK stuff, no matter how often they're run.
2014-09-22T23:10:39Z drmeister: Well, they are revamping the pass managers as we speak.  I'm still using the legacy stuff.  LLVM is a moving target.
2014-09-22T23:10:44Z nyef: White_Flame: Heh. Yeah, bad RAM does occasionally happen. And drmeister and I (and several others) run into compiler bugs quite often, given that we hack on compilers, but the normal case is that they are rare problems.
2014-09-22T23:11:23Z White_Flame: yeah, but having on-chip facilities being the culprit is even more rare
2014-09-22T23:11:24Z drmeister: I hadn't updated LLVM for about 8 months while I was in my cave working on a static analyzer to build the Memory Pool System garbage collector interface.  There have been a lot of changes and they frighten and confuse me.
2014-09-22T23:11:43Z jasom: I wonder if a lisp fuzzer would be at all useful in finding bugs in OSS lisp implementations; like csmith for lisp
2014-09-22T23:12:14Z nyef: White_Flame: Unless you're working in VHDL, or deal with a fab on a regular basis, yes.
2014-09-22T23:12:42Z jasom: nyef: or deal with embedded parts.  Those have more errata than you can swing a stick at.
2014-09-22T23:12:45Z nyef: jasom: "fuzzer"? Would that be anything like the random tester in the ansi-tests suite?
2014-09-22T23:13:16Z nyef: jasom: Yes. I remember working with some embedded systems... Or even just plain PC device drivers.
2014-09-22T23:13:25Z jasom: nyef: generate random programs that will have defined output on a conforming implementation; run it on multiple implementations with different optimization settings, see if any generate different output
2014-09-22T23:13:51Z jkaye quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T23:14:16Z nyef: I once had a telepathic debugging incident where someone was having trouble with a floppy disk driver, I tossed out an example of something that could be the problem (some systems don't do non-DMA floppy access reliably) as a reason WHY I couldn't debug without more information, and it turned out to be the issue.
2014-09-22T23:14:27Z jkaye joined #lisp
2014-09-22T23:15:13Z nyef: jasom: Yeah, look at the ansi-tests random tester. It runs in the context of a single implementation, but reports if different optimization settings return different results for a set of constructs randomly assembled that are within the bounds of conforming use.
2014-09-22T23:15:24Z eazar001 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T23:15:27Z nyef: jasom: It's found a number of issues in various systems, including SBCL.
2014-09-22T23:15:29Z jasom: nyef: cool, so someone already wrote it.
2014-09-22T23:15:39Z nyef: pfdietz did, IIRC.
2014-09-22T23:16:33Z nyef: It doesn't compare between implementations, though.
2014-09-22T23:16:35Z cmack` joined #lisp
2014-09-22T23:16:51Z White_Flame: nyef:  right, the bad cache ram was on a normal consumer Pentium-class CPU, not something niche
2014-09-22T23:17:01Z jasom: Actually, csmith compared to a single baseline which defaulted to noopt version of the same compiler
2014-09-22T23:17:09Z nyef: White_Flame: So... like that FDIV bug? (-:
2014-09-22T23:17:30Z White_Flame: FDIV was a widespread bug.  This was a weird one-shot problem on our specific chip
2014-09-22T23:18:02Z nyef: White_Flame: How's 6502 hacking, btw?
2014-09-22T23:18:15Z cmack quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2014-09-22T23:18:26Z White_Flame: Doing more AI work on reverse engineering 6502 than actually writing 6502 code nowadays
2014-09-22T23:18:29Z nyef: White_Flame: I noticed some time ago that you were active both in the 6502.org forums and here. (-:
2014-09-22T23:18:33Z White_Flame: yep
2014-09-22T23:18:49Z jkaye quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds)
2014-09-22T23:18:53Z nyef: jasom: So, yeah, like the ansi-tests random tester.
2014-09-22T23:18:58Z thierrygar joined #lisp
2014-09-22T23:19:30Z nyef: White_Flame: AI work for REing 6502 code? Now THAT sounds interesting!
2014-09-22T23:19:50Z davazp joined #lisp
2014-09-22T23:20:11Z White_Flame: that's the original path that led me to Lisp, incidentally
2014-09-22T23:21:45Z nyef: Heh, neat.
2014-09-22T23:22:19Z Bicyclidine: reverse engineering what, exactly? implementation quirks, the internal mechanisms?
2014-09-22T23:22:21Z nyef: REing 6502 code was on the path that led me to Lisp, but quite a ways before I got to Lisp.
2014-09-22T23:23:00Z White_Flame: Bicyclidine:  reverse engineering the software from byte dumps to at least some semblance of "what's going on and why"
2014-09-22T23:23:29Z White_Flame: yeah, not the chip itself
2014-09-22T23:23:29Z Bicyclidine: oh, decompiling?
2014-09-22T23:23:35Z White_Flame: basically
2014-09-22T23:23:44Z White_Flame: except decompiling tends to imply a target HLL
2014-09-22T23:23:50Z Bicyclidine: i've read a few annotated disassemblies of nes games, seems like some hella work
2014-09-22T23:24:15Z White_Flame: right.  All of that work is quite tedious but straightforward to a human, but difficult to express to a machine.  That is the challenge
2014-09-22T23:24:46Z nyef: I hear that IDA has a certain amount of that sort of brains.
2014-09-22T23:25:04Z White_Flame: IDA doesn't do much, but apparently there are plugins that make things much more powerful
2014-09-22T23:25:11Z marsbot is now known as marsam
2014-09-22T23:25:28Z nyef: At one point I was looking to do something in the way of a smart disassembler with a CLIM UI.
2014-09-22T23:25:32Z Bicyclidine: well, given IDA is interactive, is the usual practice still human labor oriented
2014-09-22T23:25:33Z White_Flame: but again, not sure about 6502 support there; the bigger markets of x86 & arm have better ecosystem support
2014-09-22T23:25:54Z White_Flame: Bicyclidine: right, it doesn't really do reverse engineering for you, but organizes things in a way for the human to do the RE'ing
2014-09-22T23:26:39Z nyef: And if you run into an odd CPU that's not supported by IDA or any other disassembler? Yeah, you're going to be working manually and with custom tools.
2014-09-22T23:27:18Z Bicyclidine: and your AI tools do more of the human part? sounds pretty neat.
2014-09-22T23:27:38Z nyef: (My first serious Lisp project that got anywhere was a disassembler for a rather unusual CPU, including a bit where I could define names for program and RAM locations and re-process a file that included comments to update the disassembly.)
2014-09-22T23:28:25Z White_Flame: Bicyclidine:  That's the intent.  If it can apply a conceptual view of what's going on, then the specific CPU type also just becomes a configuration detail
2014-09-22T23:29:38Z nyef: White_Flame: The real challenge will be to have it figure out, given a known CPU, what the I/O devices are like; or given an unknown CPU, what the CPU itself is like.
2014-09-22T23:30:12Z ltbarcly joined #lisp
2014-09-22T23:30:38Z White_Flame: nyef:  Right.  That ties into understanding timing, external hardware, different memory banking states, etc
2014-09-22T23:31:04Z White_Flame: it really is an AI problem; it's a ridiculous explosion to try to map all that out manually
2014-09-22T23:32:08Z bgs100 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T23:32:22Z White_Flame: just like the other day, I had mentioned the problem of interpreting a bunch of simple math ops to "draws a line on a bitmap of a particular configuration"
2014-09-22T23:35:25Z gendl_ joined #lisp
2014-09-22T23:36:19Z cmack`` joined #lisp
2014-09-22T23:37:24Z marsam is now known as marsbot
2014-09-22T23:37:51Z cmack` quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds)
2014-09-22T23:40:39Z nyef: Mmm. First you have to know that you're targetting a bitmap...
2014-09-22T23:41:35Z nyef: I look forward to the day when SBCL can issue a compiler note that says "there are better options than that bubble-sort, you know?"
2014-09-22T23:41:51Z SvenGek: lol
2014-09-22T23:44:50Z nyef: White_Flame: Have you done anything in the way of baysian pattern recognition for determining the type of data in various parts of a file?
2014-09-22T23:45:26Z jkaye joined #lisp
2014-09-22T23:45:55Z nyef: Graphic bitmap data, for example, has a very different "feel" than, say, code or text (even non-ascii text) or compressed data or...
2014-09-22T23:50:29Z nyef: For that matter, even automatically recognizing that you're looking at a busy-wait on some hardware signal can help.
2014-09-22T23:50:52Z dented42 joined #lisp
2014-09-22T23:53:33Z dented42 quit (Remote host closed the connection)
2014-09-22T23:54:17Z defaultxr joined #lisp
2014-09-22T23:54:41Z White_Flame: nyef: for now I'm sticking with rational, symbolic processing.  I know that's not going to go 100% to my goal, but I want to push that as far as possible
2014-09-22T23:54:59Z jleija joined #lisp
2014-09-22T23:55:03Z White_Flame: because that style can explain its rationale and update its thinking with single discoveries & statements of fact incorporated into its knowledge base, rather than just trained hunches
2014-09-22T23:55:14Z nyef: That's fair.
2014-09-22T23:55:16Z stacksmith: Different "feel" indeed.  For instance, r2blend converted msPaint to audio.  You can really hear all the bitmaps and the pallettes.  Here is the link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xZgCVG_Bzk
2014-09-22T23:56:28Z nyef: Hunh. (not having followed the link) I hadn't even thought about dealing with something like taking the FFT of data and taking various spectral metrics to try and classify different region types.
2014-09-22T23:57:05Z stacksmith: nyef: before you do, do check out that link.  It really sounds like a f**king symphony, complete with a theme that goes through the entire piece.
2014-09-22T23:57:41Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds)
2014-09-22T23:57:43Z nyef: Right, let me just wake up my youtube box...
2014-09-22T23:57:44Z White_Flame: "All I did to the audio was master it slightly to make it sound less harsh to the ears, __as well as remove a long section of noise.__"
2014-09-22T23:58:12Z nyef: Heh.
2014-09-22T23:58:41Z stacksmith: I had a chat with him.  He just ran it through a slight low-pass filter to eliminate the screech at the top.
2014-09-22T23:59:02Z ltbarcly quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.)
2014-09-22T23:59:16Z White_Flame: of course, this has a long precedent of turning up the volume on your 80's TV-connected computer to "hear" what's going on, and mapping CPU memory to the screen to "watch" what's going on