2014-09-18T00:02:31Z gryyy quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T00:03:00Z BitPuffin joined #lisp 2014-09-18T00:04:56Z Bicyclidine quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-09-18T00:08:20Z zeitue joined #lisp 2014-09-18T00:09:33Z mr-foobar quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-18T00:10:05Z mr-foobar joined #lisp 2014-09-18T00:10:42Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-18T00:10:50Z snits joined #lisp 2014-09-18T00:13:28Z wizzo quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2014-09-18T00:13:45Z vlnx quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T00:16:23Z klltkr quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2014-09-18T00:17:14Z varjag_ quit (Quit: Connection closed for inactivity) 2014-09-18T00:17:43Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T00:18:18Z resttime joined #lisp 2014-09-18T00:20:52Z resttime: i give up on ECL, this is just too much 2014-09-18T00:20:58Z ehaliewicz quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T00:21:28Z resttime: i'll probably get more progress done making a gtk irc client from scratch 2014-09-18T00:23:59Z pjb: resttime: too much goodness? 2014-09-18T00:24:25Z resttime: i wish D: 2014-09-18T00:24:43Z resttime: things just keep on not working 2014-09-18T00:24:50Z pjb: http://chriskohlhepp.wordpress.com/embedding-lisp-in-cplusplus-a-recipe/ 2014-09-18T00:25:01Z pjb: not for everybody. 2014-09-18T00:25:20Z rp__ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-18T00:28:41Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-18T00:29:12Z drmeister quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T00:30:10Z zRecursive joined #lisp 2014-09-18T00:32:02Z work_op: the lisp koans are cool 2014-09-18T00:34:57Z vlnx joined #lisp 2014-09-18T00:35:05Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-09-18T00:35:08Z antonv quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-18T00:35:15Z zacharias quit (Changing host) 2014-09-18T00:35:15Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-09-18T00:36:09Z rme joined #lisp 2014-09-18T00:36:32Z ruste quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-18T00:37:45Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2014-09-18T00:37:58Z ruste joined #lisp 2014-09-18T00:38:46Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-09-18T00:42:23Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-09-18T00:42:44Z zRecursive: work_op: what's koans ? 2014-09-18T00:43:00Z work_op: https://github.com/google/lisp-koans 2014-09-18T00:44:15Z zRecursive: great 2014-09-18T00:48:18Z White_Flame: does github not visually distinguish directories from files, or is my browser security just blocking that feature? 2014-09-18T00:49:43Z c74d: White_Flame: GitHub puts “folder” icons before directories, and “leaf of paper” icons before files 2014-09-18T00:50:02Z White_Flame: probably via js then 2014-09-18T00:51:01Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2014-09-18T00:53:49Z attila_lendvai quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-09-18T00:55:17Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-18T00:57:42Z Longlius joined #lisp 2014-09-18T01:01:19Z drmeister quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-18T01:01:59Z goldenlight quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-09-18T01:04:32Z edgar-rft quit (Quit: lifetime abandoned because computer burns) 2014-09-18T01:07:17Z resttime: pjb, thanks i tried doing things some more but still seems no success 2014-09-18T01:07:49Z resttime: i can't load lisp files 2014-09-18T01:10:24Z prxq_ joined #lisp 2014-09-18T01:10:29Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-09-18T01:13:54Z prxq quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-09-18T01:15:42Z resttime: yeah a (load "C:/file") doesn't work at all 2014-09-18T01:15:59Z nydel: lisper-ish friends, i'm having a severe problem involving libc6/glibc on my ubuntu machine, even calling ls gives me "ls: /lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.17' not found (required by ls)" -- i know this is offtopic but i don't know of a channel with more savvy people & i'm desperate, it's clear that if i reboot i'm screwed, & i can't call hardly any binary without this error so i'm in a 2014-09-18T01:16:01Z nydel: gnu/linux limbo until i figure out what to do. any help greatly appreciated, please & thank you. 2014-09-18T01:18:42Z resttime: oh wait it actually did! 2014-09-18T01:22:05Z Vivitron quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T01:30:09Z Bazzie quit (Quit: life sucks; drop out) 2014-09-18T01:34:28Z araujo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-18T01:35:11Z araujo joined #lisp 2014-09-18T01:35:21Z nell quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1-dev) 2014-09-18T01:36:40Z resttime: no it actually didn't :( 2014-09-18T01:40:24Z resttime: time to abandon the possibility of ECL projects under windows 2014-09-18T01:40:40Z resttime: or at least the ones i was interested in 2014-09-18T01:42:22Z resttime: i guess on the plus side of wasting so many hours 2014-09-18T01:42:31Z resttime: i learned a bit and submitted some bug reports 2014-09-18T01:43:33Z Longlius quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T01:44:50Z resttime: i had the intent to create a swank server if things succeeded 2014-09-18T01:45:25Z resttime: ah well 2014-09-18T01:46:26Z blakbunnie27 quit (Quit: EliteBNC free bnc service - http://elitebnc.org - be a part of the Elite!) 2014-09-18T01:48:03Z Longlius joined #lisp 2014-09-18T01:48:16Z resttime: maybe i'll try again with that new C++ implementation of lisp that will b released one day 2014-09-18T01:49:24Z nipra quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-09-18T01:49:40Z kushal quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-09-18T01:50:10Z kushal joined #lisp 2014-09-18T01:50:15Z kushal quit (Changing host) 2014-09-18T01:50:16Z kushal joined #lisp 2014-09-18T01:56:21Z billstclair quit (Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com) 2014-09-18T01:59:27Z gryyy joined #lisp 2014-09-18T02:01:57Z Bazzie joined #lisp 2014-09-18T02:02:29Z echo-area quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-18T02:03:31Z echo-area joined #lisp 2014-09-18T02:04:16Z gryyy quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-18T02:06:03Z billstclair joined #lisp 2014-09-18T02:06:03Z billstclair quit (Changing host) 2014-09-18T02:06:03Z billstclair joined #lisp 2014-09-18T02:07:24Z Elench`` joined #lisp 2014-09-18T02:08:57Z harish joined #lisp 2014-09-18T02:09:09Z Elench` quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-09-18T02:09:16Z doesthiswork joined #lisp 2014-09-18T02:09:42Z Elench`` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T02:10:13Z Zetetic joined #lisp 2014-09-18T02:11:44Z oudeis quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-09-18T02:11:53Z blakbunnie27 joined #lisp 2014-09-18T02:12:28Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-09-18T02:12:36Z jusss joined #lisp 2014-09-18T02:13:58Z Zetetic is now known as Elench` 2014-09-18T02:14:27Z Elench` is now known as Elench 2014-09-18T02:16:25Z resttime quit (Quit: resttime) 2014-09-18T02:17:51Z resttime joined #lisp 2014-09-18T02:17:58Z marsbot is now known as marsam 2014-09-18T02:26:32Z leo2007 quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-18T02:28:19Z leo2007 joined #lisp 2014-09-18T02:28:54Z rme quit (Quit: rme) 2014-09-18T02:29:39Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-09-18T02:33:57Z yacks joined #lisp 2014-09-18T02:35:53Z zRecursive: resttime: maybe clasp ? 2014-09-18T02:41:35Z nell joined #lisp 2014-09-18T02:43:56Z leo2007 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-18T02:44:27Z patbarron joined #lisp 2014-09-18T02:45:16Z theethicalegoist joined #lisp 2014-09-18T02:51:04Z resttime: zRecursive, you mean this https://github.com/openlisp/clasp? 2014-09-18T02:51:56Z zRecursive: resttime: I mean the one created by drmeister 2014-09-18T02:52:08Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-09-18T02:52:44Z drmeister: Speaking of clasp - I got an assurances today that I'll be able to release Clasp in the next couple of days so I'm getting ready. 2014-09-18T02:52:48Z leo2007 joined #lisp 2014-09-18T02:53:07Z zRecursive: great ! 2014-09-18T02:53:21Z drmeister: I drafted an announcement - would anyone have a few minutes to proof read it and give some editorial feedback? 2014-09-18T02:53:24Z drmeister: Hang on. 2014-09-18T02:54:35Z zRecursive: sorry for English is NOT my 1st language 2014-09-18T02:54:49Z resttime: i can give a small proof read 2014-09-18T02:55:03Z TDog joined #lisp 2014-09-18T02:55:25Z drmeister: https://gist.github.com/drmeister/d33b9cac30f38bd0a770 2014-09-18T02:55:52Z drmeister: Bugger! What the fudge is up with the non-breaking lines . 2014-09-18T02:56:14Z drmeister: Is there a way to get gist.github.com to break lines? 2014-09-18T02:56:57Z drmeister: You can hit "raw" and adjust the width of your window. 2014-09-18T02:57:14Z rme joined #lisp 2014-09-18T02:57:38Z drmeister: zRecursive: No problem. I'm Canadian - it's not my first language either. :-) 2014-09-18T02:58:12Z drmeister: Oh wait, not any more - old habits. 2014-09-18T02:58:51Z zRecursive: It indeed needs a line break 2014-09-18T03:00:15Z loke: drmeister: Your language is french? 2014-09-18T03:01:08Z drmeister: No, my first language is actually German. It was more of a joke really. I only had 11 years of French - I can't speak more than a few phrases sadly. 2014-09-18T03:01:44Z drmeister: "few phrases, sadly". 2014-09-18T03:02:35Z jonh left #lisp 2014-09-18T03:04:01Z patbarron quit (Quit: Exiting HexChat) 2014-09-18T03:04:45Z drmeister: I should mention the Just In Time compiler. 2014-09-18T03:07:22Z beach joined #lisp 2014-09-18T03:07:33Z beach: Good morning everyone! 2014-09-18T03:08:34Z vanila: good morning! 2014-09-18T03:08:37Z resttime: drmeister, seems alright without any typos 2014-09-18T03:08:52Z drmeister: Thank you very much. 2014-09-18T03:08:53Z resttime: i'll give some suggestions after i'm done cooking 2014-09-18T03:09:26Z drmeister: resttime: Awesome. It's late here but I'll leave the IRC window open and read comments tomorrow. 2014-09-18T03:10:04Z drmeister: I have work to do this weekend cleaning up the build system, getting llvm-3.5 incorporated, polishing up the announcement. 2014-09-18T03:11:12Z drmeister: beach: The lunch idea didn't work because the main person I work with wasn't in today. But I had a heart to heart with the head of the IP office and they assured me that they will be ready in a couple of days. 2014-09-18T03:11:39Z beach: drmeister: Excellent! 2014-09-18T03:12:04Z marsam is now known as marsbot 2014-09-18T03:15:11Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-09-18T03:16:57Z drmeister: Crap - I can't remember where I published my blog. I thought it was wordpress - now I can't find it. Imagine that. 2014-09-18T03:21:09Z drmeister: What's another good blogging site? 2014-09-18T03:21:09Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T03:22:15Z bgs100 quit (Quit: bgs100) 2014-09-18T03:22:29Z drmeister: Never mind - it was wordpress.com and not wordpress.org. 2014-09-18T03:24:54Z drmeister: Here's a better formatted version of the announcement I wrote. Please don't publish it anywhere - it's not complete. http://drmeister.wordpress.com/2014/09/18/announcing-clasp/ 2014-09-18T03:25:52Z beach: Is this the text you need feedback on? 2014-09-18T03:26:07Z drmeister: Yes, I'd love feedback if you have time. 2014-09-18T03:26:14Z beach: Sure, I'll read it. 2014-09-18T03:26:56Z TDog_ joined #lisp 2014-09-18T03:28:05Z beach: drmeister: "multiple-return values" -> "multiple return values" 2014-09-18T03:28:26Z beach: [I am starting with the syntax] 2014-09-18T03:28:38Z drmeister: Fixed - thank you. 2014-09-18T03:28:49Z TDog quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T03:28:51Z TDog_ is now known as TDog 2014-09-18T03:29:28Z Adlai defmethods update-instance-for-redefined-class to change-class into a new class, crosses fingers, and calls make-instances-obsolete on the old class 2014-09-18T03:29:47Z Adlai: this might actually work 2014-09-18T03:31:58Z beach: drmeister: "from the ground up common" -> "from the ground up, common" (add comma) 2014-09-18T03:32:27Z drmeister: Got it. 2014-09-18T03:33:17Z beach: drmeister: "about 10% the" -> "about 10% of the" 2014-09-18T03:33:36Z znode joined #lisp 2014-09-18T03:33:47Z drmeister: Done. 2014-09-18T03:34:27Z beach re-reads for semantics. 2014-09-18T03:36:07Z phao quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-09-18T03:36:36Z beach: drmeister: I don't know about other people, but when I read an article that starts by announcing a new "programming language", I stop reading right there. You might want to consider calling it something else. Maybe "programming system" or something that I might come up with when I am more awake than now. 2014-09-18T03:37:46Z drmeister: Good point. "programming environment" might cause less eye-glazing than "programming language". 2014-09-18T03:37:52Z beach: Yeah. 2014-09-18T03:37:54Z White_Flame: or just remove "the programming language" from the first sentence 2014-09-18T03:38:54Z badkins quit 2014-09-18T03:40:18Z drmeister: I put in "programming environment" as a place holder and I'll think on that. If you have suggestions and have a few minutes to convey them to me, send them to me or post them as a comment under the article. 2014-09-18T03:41:16Z beach: drmeister: I think the word "graft" is not used the way. You don't "graft two [...] together", so if you are suggesting that C++ and Common Lisp play equally important roles, then I suggest a different word, and if you suggest that there is an asymmetric relation, I would say [language1] is grafted on to [language2]. 2014-09-18T03:41:30Z beach: drmeister: OK. 2014-09-18T03:43:11Z drmeister: Hmm, attach, tie, bind, couple, connect, unite, link, yoke, weld, fuse, glue 2014-09-18T03:43:28Z beach: Yeah, anything but "graft"! :) 2014-09-18T03:44:27Z resttime: first paragraph might read better if split into 2 2014-09-18T03:44:34Z White_Flame: "integrate"? 2014-09-18T03:44:40Z resttime: starting with "Common Lisp has many..." 2014-09-18T03:45:14Z drmeister: Integrate - I'll use that. 2014-09-18T03:45:19Z drmeister: Thank you. 2014-09-18T03:45:42Z resttime: "First-class functions, dynamic variables, true macros for meta-programming, generic functions, multiple return values, first-class symbols, exact arithmetic, conditions and restarts, optional type declarations, a programmable reader, a programmable printer and a configurable compiler makes Common Lisp the ultimate programmable programming language." 2014-09-18T03:45:44Z White_Flame: I believe it would be more correct to remove "together", if "Integrate" is used 2014-09-18T03:46:04Z drmeister: I broke it up into two paragraphs and one sentence to preclude the list. 2014-09-18T03:46:05Z beach: drmeister: In general it is pretty well written. I am used to correcting the crap that my French colleagues produce. 2014-09-18T03:46:53Z White_Flame: If there's any tale behind choosing the term "Clasp", you should do that as well. It helps people remember the name of that project they saw the other day. 2014-09-18T03:46:56Z drmeister: beach: Thank you - I appreciate that very much. I'm pretty excited about this. 2014-09-18T03:47:31Z beach: drmeister: I can imagine. It's the fruit of many years of work. 2014-09-18T03:48:19Z resttime: oh the quote is combining those two sentences 2014-09-18T03:49:01Z Elench quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T03:49:24Z Elench joined #lisp 2014-09-18T03:49:29Z lisper29 joined #lisp 2014-09-18T03:49:58Z drmeister: White_Flame: It was the last short word that had CL in it that wasn't used for a Common Lisp project. :-) It also implies "a joining together" and I have an acronym "Common Lisp And Static Programming" but I think it's a bit of a stupid acronym. I found it on a Scrabble web site. Is that a good enough story? 2014-09-18T03:50:10Z White_Flame: absolutely\ 2014-09-18T03:50:42Z drmeister: Oh and it fits with "Clang" and "Cling" two other LLVM tools. 2014-09-18T03:51:22Z drmeister: I'll think on it and write something more coherant. I'm a bit sleep deprived at the moment. 2014-09-18T03:51:25Z beach: Yeah, better not interpret the acronym. 2014-09-18T03:51:53Z PuercoPop: drmeister: you shouldn't say Clang is a compiled language. 2014-09-18T03:52:08Z drmeister: PuercoPop: Clang or Clasp? 2014-09-18T03:52:09Z beach: I agree. 2014-09-18T03:52:20Z beach: drmeister: "compiled language" doesn't make sense. 2014-09-18T03:52:52Z beach: drmeister: Languages are not interpreted or compiled; language implementations are. 2014-09-18T03:53:05Z vanila quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-09-18T03:53:12Z drmeister: Good point. And I say it has a JIT compiler anyway. 2014-09-18T03:53:33Z drmeister: Thanks PuercoPop for that suggestion. 2014-09-18T03:54:35Z drmeister: Does it make sense to just say: "Clasp is a super-set of Common Lisp that interoperates smoothly with C++" 2014-09-18T03:54:42Z beach: Yes. 2014-09-18T03:54:50Z beach: Much better. 2014-09-18T03:54:52Z drmeister: It is still conflating Common Lisp the language with Clasp the implementation. 2014-09-18T03:55:04Z djuber quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T03:55:13Z beach: Or Clasp "implements" a super-set... 2014-09-18T03:55:27Z drmeister: I guess there is Clasp the language and Clasp the implementation. 2014-09-18T03:55:44Z beach: Yeah, it's ambiguous that way. Better! :) 2014-09-18T03:55:56Z beach: PuercoPop: I think we must let drmeister get some sleep. 2014-09-18T03:56:16Z PuercoPop: I'm unsure as two why say it is a superset. I would just say Clasp is a CL implementation that focuses on ease of interoperation with C++. But then again I don't know exactly what is 2014-09-18T03:56:27Z drmeister: Clasp the language is a super-set of Common Lisp (just as every CL implementation can be thought of representing a reference implementation of a superset of CL). 2014-09-18T03:57:54Z drmeister: PuercoPop: I said that because as soon as you use the C++ interoperation stuff then your code won't run on other Common Lisp implementations. 2014-09-18T03:58:09Z beach: I don't have a problem with "super-set". 2014-09-18T03:58:13Z PuercoPop: what I am unclear is exactly what counts as an extension and what counts a library. 2014-09-18T03:58:29Z PuercoPop: yeah it is not wrong to call it a super-set 2014-09-18T03:58:52Z drmeister: I think anything that you can implement with an FFI can be portable. The C++ interop in Clasp does not go through FFI. 2014-09-18T03:59:41Z drmeister: Clasp could be used to write programs that create portable FFI's by using Clasp to grovel C++ code and generate portable FFI's. 2014-09-18T04:00:13Z resttime: i think 2nd to last paragraph would do better with something positive about the future 2014-09-18T04:00:20Z resttime: added to the end 2014-09-18T04:00:49Z gryyy joined #lisp 2014-09-18T04:01:00Z drmeister: The super-set thing is kind of a warning that Clasp has features that are not standard Common Lisp. 2014-09-18T04:01:14Z PuercoPop: btw it would be a good idae to link to your youtube screencast when talking about ASTMatcher. It was pretty cool and can help to 'hype' Clasp 2014-09-18T04:01:43Z resttime: "But we are very ambitious and will close in on this gap..." or something like that 2014-09-18T04:03:57Z lisper29 left #lisp 2014-09-18T04:04:20Z resttime: wait there's a screencast? 2014-09-18T04:04:52Z gryyy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-09-18T04:05:20Z drmeister: resttime: Thank you. I stuck in a reminder to do that - I need to think on that. 2014-09-18T04:06:32Z drmeister: PuercoPop: I put in a note to add links at the end. 2014-09-18T04:07:07Z PuercoPop: resttime: it was released a year ago I think. 2014-09-18T04:07:30Z PuercoPop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h31pURzgYX8 2014-09-18T04:07:38Z jusss quit (Ping timeout: 256 seconds) 2014-09-18T04:07:47Z drmeister: resttime: Yeah, I did it a couple of months ago. My daughter was very proud of me when I hit 100 views. 2014-09-18T04:11:40Z drmeister: Feb 8 - holy cow - time flies. 2014-09-18T04:12:57Z drmeister: That was when I was getting the Clang AST/ASTMatcher library exposed and writing the static analyzer. (sigh) Those were the days... 2014-09-18T04:13:31Z drmeister: Ok, bed or zombification tomorrow. Good night all. If anyone has any further thoughts I'll read them tomorrow. 2014-09-18T04:13:37Z drmeister: Thanks for your feed back everyone. 2014-09-18T04:13:58Z _5kg_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T04:14:00Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-09-18T04:19:31Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2014-09-18T04:22:59Z gingerale joined #lisp 2014-09-18T04:25:46Z Vivitron joined #lisp 2014-09-18T04:27:15Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T04:39:30Z madrik joined #lisp 2014-09-18T04:39:44Z innertracks quit (Quit: innertracks) 2014-09-18T04:41:59Z tadni quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-18T04:45:08Z mr-foobar quit (Quit: Leaving...) 2014-09-18T04:45:28Z MoALTz_ joined #lisp 2014-09-18T04:48:27Z MoALTz quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-09-18T04:49:09Z gingerale quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-09-18T04:52:27Z Rakko joined #lisp 2014-09-18T04:55:04Z doesthiswork quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-09-18T04:55:14Z znode quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 2014-09-18T04:56:55Z _5kg_ joined #lisp 2014-09-18T04:58:59Z Rakko: I haven't done Lisp in a while. Now I'm having trouble using SLIME with SBCL 1.2.2. Anyone know how to fix it? 2014-09-18T04:59:39Z Rakko: Basically this happens when I launch M-x slime: https://gist.github.com/echristopherson/b69ed862e60ec9346134 2014-09-18T05:00:07Z Rakko: Someone on StackOverflow has the same problem currently. 2014-09-18T05:01:50Z beach: Rakko: Did you install SLIME from quicklisp? 2014-09-18T05:02:30Z Rakko: No. MELPA. 2014-09-18T05:02:51Z beach: I recommend you do. Then follow the instructions on what to add to your .emacs. 2014-09-18T05:02:58Z Rakko: Or do you mean there's a backend component *besides* the MELPA part? 2014-09-18T05:03:02Z Rakko: thanks 2014-09-18T05:03:20Z beach: MELPA? 2014-09-18T05:03:21Z nostoi joined #lisp 2014-09-18T05:03:21Z Bike: it looks like you're missing swank. how about that. 2014-09-18T05:03:26Z Bike: melpa is an emacs package thingie. 2014-09-18T05:03:32Z beach: Oh. 2014-09-18T05:03:32Z Rakko: Yes 2014-09-18T05:03:34Z Bike: maybe it only has the elisp part of the system. 2014-09-18T05:04:23Z Rakko: Just briefly, how would one install SWANK without quicklisp? 2014-09-18T05:04:59Z theethicalegoist quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-09-18T05:06:10Z nand1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T05:06:24Z Rakko: nm 2014-09-18T05:06:25Z nand1 joined #lisp 2014-09-18T05:06:32Z defaultxr quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-18T05:06:34Z Bike: actually, i don't think there's supposed to be a backend.lisp file. i just have swank-backend.lisp. 2014-09-18T05:06:41Z modula joined #lisp 2014-09-18T05:06:43Z modula is now known as defaultxr 2014-09-18T05:07:19Z Rakko: It's odd that its compile target *is* backend.lisp 2014-09-18T05:07:24Z Rakko: but it can't find its truename 2014-09-18T05:07:48Z Rakko: in any event, I'm lacking that whole swank/ dir in that path 2014-09-18T05:08:13Z Bike: ot 2014-09-18T05:08:25Z Elench quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-09-18T05:08:28Z Bike: it's supposed to contain swank-backend.lisp and a bunch of swank-implementation.lisp files, and a few other things 2014-09-18T05:08:31Z Bike: in quicklisp's version anyway 2014-09-18T05:11:12Z Rakko: interesting 2014-09-18T05:12:27Z aon_ joined #lisp 2014-09-18T05:12:35Z nand1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T05:14:13Z aon_ left #lisp 2014-09-18T05:16:59Z rme quit (Quit: rme) 2014-09-18T05:17:06Z nand1 joined #lisp 2014-09-18T05:17:13Z Rakko: OK. Reinstalling QL. 2014-09-18T05:20:24Z oleo__ quit (Quit: Verlassend) 2014-09-18T05:21:09Z resttime: well you could also just grab the latest version of slime off the github and use that 2014-09-18T05:21:45Z resttime: if things don't workout 2014-09-18T05:21:45Z Rakko: yeah 2014-09-18T05:21:54Z Rakko: I'm trying to save that sort of aggravation 2014-09-18T05:22:06Z Rakko: actually the last time I used it I had a *CVS* checkout of it 2014-09-18T05:22:16Z Rakko: not sure if it recently moved to git or if I was just clueless then 2014-09-18T05:22:23Z resttime: i remember trying to use elpa version i think it broke 2014-09-18T05:22:30Z resttime: like this week or last week 2014-09-18T05:23:19Z Rakko: ok 2014-09-18T05:23:28Z Rakko: but it worked before that? 2014-09-18T05:23:53Z resttime: yeah sometime few months/weeks ago before that i had it installed via elpa 2014-09-18T05:24:21Z resttime: thought i'd update or something but it just crashed 2014-09-18T05:24:55Z resttime: good rule of thumb i follow is that if it usually is if it doesn't work on elpa 2014-09-18T05:25:03Z resttime: just get the latest from repo 2014-09-18T05:25:18Z resttime: that's also goes for quicklisp libraries too 2014-09-18T05:25:32Z Rakko: OK. I did get it working with the Quicklisp one. Yay! 2014-09-18T05:25:57Z Rakko: thanks, all 2014-09-18T05:27:17Z Rakko: With Quicklisp how do people keep their list of systems under version control? 2014-09-18T05:27:45Z Rakko: I.e. I would like to just keep some references to what I have installed over time, without actually checking in all the systems' contents. 2014-09-18T05:28:13Z _5kg_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-18T05:29:57Z jusss joined #lisp 2014-09-18T05:32:12Z _5kg_ joined #lisp 2014-09-18T05:33:35Z resttime: not sure what you mean by that, are you looking for this? http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/releases.html 2014-09-18T05:33:42Z logand` joined #lisp 2014-09-18T05:36:42Z zRecursive: Rakko: https://github.com/slime/slime.git 2014-09-18T05:41:01Z logand` quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-18T05:41:17Z logand` joined #lisp 2014-09-18T05:42:15Z Harag joined #lisp 2014-09-18T05:42:21Z work_op: so there is no datalog for common lisp yet... 2014-09-18T05:42:47Z work_op: but scheme, lua, clojure and prolog have it 2014-09-18T05:42:54Z vydd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T05:43:29Z zadock joined #lisp 2014-09-18T05:44:05Z malbertife joined #lisp 2014-09-18T05:44:14Z malbertife quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-18T05:44:20Z cy quit (Quit: :q!) 2014-09-18T05:44:24Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-09-18T05:46:42Z zRecursive: clhs destructuring-bind 2014-09-18T05:46:42Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_destru.htm 2014-09-18T05:46:51Z beach: work_op: Is this another one of those remarks destined to make #lisp participants feel bad about Common Lisp, or are you trying to get someone else to work for you? 2014-09-18T05:48:00Z work_op: maybe i was making an observation you autistic fuck. if my intentions were either of those i would have said so. 2014-09-18T05:48:22Z Zhivago: work_op: Please learn how to use punctuation. 2014-09-18T05:48:51Z work_op: people dont like the JVM, but they write clojure because the common lisp community is made of people like you, beach. 2014-09-18T05:49:11Z nell quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1-dev) 2014-09-18T05:49:19Z Zhivago: People who can't spell "don't" do not have valid opinions. 2014-09-18T05:49:36Z nydel quit (Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2) 2014-09-18T05:50:00Z slyrus joined #lisp 2014-09-18T05:50:48Z work_op: noted 2014-09-18T05:50:49Z MoALTz_ quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-09-18T05:51:48Z znode joined #lisp 2014-09-18T05:51:56Z malbertife joined #lisp 2014-09-18T05:52:49Z work_op: its not like you matter, you're the idiot who wants to use lisp in gook-speak 2014-09-18T05:53:59Z zRecursive: work_op: why do you come here ? 2014-09-18T05:54:21Z work_op: i was already here 2014-09-18T05:56:24Z hiroakip quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T05:57:46Z Rakko: sorry for the absence. I was answering on stackoverflow. 2014-09-18T05:58:05Z zadock quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-09-18T05:58:29Z wizzo joined #lisp 2014-09-18T05:59:10Z Rakko: resttime: I meant I would like some sort of list on my system that would specify which exact packages I have installed; then I could check that list into source control, and at a later date, use that repository on another system to exactly duplicate my setup 2014-09-18T05:59:18Z Rakko: Sort of like Bundler for Ruby 2014-09-18T05:59:25Z echo-are` joined #lisp 2014-09-18T06:00:16Z zRecursive: It is QuickLisp 2014-09-18T06:01:00Z echo-area quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T06:01:13Z Rakko: zRecursive: ok, but where does it keep its list of installed systems and versions? 2014-09-18T06:02:17Z resttime: not sure if there's a command or not, but you can check out: quicklisp\dists\quicklisp\installed 2014-09-18T06:02:26Z gryyy joined #lisp 2014-09-18T06:02:42Z mishoo joined #lisp 2014-09-18T06:02:48Z Rakko: perhaps in quicklisp/installed/{systems,releases}? :) 2014-09-18T06:03:05Z Rakko: oh yeah, I left off the quicklist/dists there 2014-09-18T06:03:19Z Rakko: does it handle dependencies? 2014-09-18T06:03:30Z Bike: quicklisp handles dependencies, yes. 2014-09-18T06:03:40Z Rakko: yay 2014-09-18T06:03:49Z Rakko: whereas asdf is just building, correct? 2014-09-18T06:03:50Z Ven joined #lisp 2014-09-18T06:04:04Z Bike: asdf also expresses dependencies 2014-09-18T06:04:04Z Rakko: I'm slowly learning about tools like maven, ivy, and lein, which do both 2014-09-18T06:04:22Z Rakko: ok, cool 2014-09-18T06:04:30Z Bike: it may be helpful to look at the .asd for a reasonably complicated lisp system to get an idea of what it has 2014-09-18T06:04:50Z Rakko: ok 2014-09-18T06:05:41Z beach left #lisp 2014-09-18T06:07:19Z gryyy quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T06:09:18Z mr-foobar joined #lisp 2014-09-18T06:13:05Z Vivitron quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-18T06:16:00Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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2014-09-18T07:42:28Z resttime: I have no idea, if it did it would mean a whole lot more options 2014-09-18T07:42:35Z resttime: with C# and Java libraries 2014-09-18T07:43:27Z zz_karupa quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-09-18T07:43:38Z Intensity joined #lisp 2014-09-18T07:44:02Z resttime: Wow the CVS code is almost 10 years old 2014-09-18T07:45:11Z aksatac___ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-18T07:45:35Z aksatac___ joined #lisp 2014-09-18T07:45:58Z mingvs quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T07:47:31Z mingvs joined #lisp 2014-09-18T07:48:15Z H4ns: that is not necessarily an issue, but i remember that last time i looked at it, there was something mentioned in the documentation that let me not try it. i'm not sure, though, and i'd be interested in knowning whether it works 2014-09-18T07:48:35Z zz_karupa joined #lisp 2014-09-18T07:48:47Z Beetny joined #lisp 2014-09-18T07:48:52Z oomshroom joined #lisp 2014-09-18T07:49:11Z zz_karupa is now known as karupa 2014-09-18T07:49:37Z blakbunnie27 quit (Quit: EliteBNC free bnc service - http://elitebnc.org - be a part of the Elite!) 2014-09-18T07:51:50Z `JRG joined #lisp 2014-09-18T07:51:58Z m4dnificent joined #lisp 2014-09-18T07:51:58Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2014-09-18T07:52:21Z kdlv joined #lisp 2014-09-18T07:53:15Z theBlackDragon quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-09-18T07:53:34Z theBlackDragon joined #lisp 2014-09-18T07:53:36Z madnificent quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-09-18T07:53:36Z vert2 quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-09-18T07:54:18Z vert2 joined #lisp 2014-09-18T07:56:24Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-09-18T07:57:47Z bit` quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-18T07:58:08Z resttime: Been trying to make it work. 2014-09-18T07:58:23Z resttime: So far I got the foil server running 2014-09-18T07:58:57Z resttime: and actually connected? With usocket that is. 2014-09-18T07:59:43Z segv-: i'm pretty sure foil can't create lisp classes that inherit from java classes (but you can implement interfaces) 2014-09-18T08:00:06Z renard_ joined #lisp 2014-09-18T08:00:06Z Nshag joined #lisp 2014-09-18T08:00:06Z sfa joined #lisp 2014-09-18T08:00:09Z segv-: so some APIs and framework aren't really usuable without a lot of hacky java code 2014-09-18T08:00:37Z segv-: (but it has been a looooong time since i actually played with foil) 2014-09-18T08:01:00Z resttime: Probably hasn't changed since the last time you looked at it lol 2014-09-18T08:01:35Z resttime: what do you mean by a lot of hacky Java code? 2014-09-18T08:02:07Z DGASAU quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-18T08:02:52Z DGASAU joined #lisp 2014-09-18T08:03:37Z segv-: i can't really remember, but it was basically creating a subclass (in java) that took an instance of an interface and delegated to that, since that's all i could create in lisp. 2014-09-18T08:03:54Z gryyy_ joined #lisp 2014-09-18T08:03:57Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-09-18T08:03:57Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 2014-09-18T08:03:57Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-09-18T08:04:02Z segv-: it felt a little like a house of cards though, once one piece was in java another piece _had_ to be in java, then another, then another 2014-09-18T08:04:21Z segv-: and there was a lot of code duplication 2014-09-18T08:04:26Z segv-: but i'm very fuzzy on the details 2014-09-18T08:04:32Z H4ns: i guess hickey's own experience with foil led to clojure in the end. 2014-09-18T08:04:44Z jegaxd26` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T08:04:47Z resttime: hmmmm that's disappointing 2014-09-18T08:05:00Z resttime: along with the fact what I'm trying to do isn't working at all 2014-09-18T08:05:41Z jusss quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-09-18T08:06:45Z oudeis joined #lisp 2014-09-18T08:07:03Z resttime: Oh wow didn't notice he was the author at all lol 2014-09-18T08:08:46Z gryyy_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T08:10:04Z resttime: I guess there's no way good with foil, especially since the author himself went to go create Clojure 2014-09-18T08:11:14Z DGASAU quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-18T08:11:54Z DGASAU joined #lisp 2014-09-18T08:12:53Z bit` joined #lisp 2014-09-18T08:17:07Z resttime: Kinda interesting though, I might revisit the idea in the future 2014-09-18T08:17:27Z resttime: Controlling JVM/CLR via sockets, never knew that was possible 2014-09-18T08:20:34Z justinmcp_ quit 2014-09-18T08:20:48Z blakbunnie27 joined #lisp 2014-09-18T08:22:27Z oudeis quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-09-18T08:25:36Z idea-man quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T08:26:01Z oomshroom quit 2014-09-18T08:26:47Z Shinmera joined #lisp 2014-09-18T08:27:13Z robot-beethoven quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-09-18T08:33:39Z tadni joined #lisp 2014-09-18T08:37:12Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-18T08:47:22Z harish quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-18T08:47:28Z edgar-rft joined #lisp 2014-09-18T08:48:33Z theos quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T08:48:42Z pt1 joined #lisp 2014-09-18T08:48:44Z moore33 joined #lisp 2014-09-18T08:49:49Z nipra quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-09-18T08:51:42Z Zhivago joined #lisp 2014-09-18T08:52:45Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2014-09-18T08:54:28Z Zhivago quit (Changing host) 2014-09-18T08:54:28Z Zhivago joined #lisp 2014-09-18T08:57:22Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-18T08:57:48Z juzdan joined #lisp 2014-09-18T08:59:55Z jusss joined #lisp 2014-09-18T09:00:43Z urandom__ joined #lisp 2014-09-18T09:01:15Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T09:02:59Z attila_lendvai quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-09-18T09:03:08Z moore33: Has anyone else encountered an "unknown &KEY argument: :AT" when quickloading fare-quasiquote? 2014-09-18T09:03:30Z moore33 wanted to play with serapeum 2014-09-18T09:07:21Z splittist: moore33: me! I did! In exactly those circumstances. Xach said he saw the (an?) issue on github. 2014-09-18T09:07:45Z |3b|: needs newer asdf i think 2014-09-18T09:09:02Z ehu joined #lisp 2014-09-18T09:09:24Z jusss quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-18T09:09:58Z moore33: Ok. Does quicklisp use its own asdf, as opposed to e.g. the one bundled with sbcl? 2014-09-18T09:10:09Z Shinmera: SBCL's ASDF is not the newest 2014-09-18T09:10:18Z |3b|: it uses whatever is already there 2014-09-18T09:10:28Z moore33 saw the bug in ccl 1.9 too, but that's not the newest either. 2014-09-18T09:10:33Z |3b|: asdf will upgrade itself if you have a newer version available though 2014-09-18T09:10:42Z |3b| thinks latest sbcl has new asdf 2014-09-18T09:10:42Z bit` quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-18T09:11:01Z |3b|: (or else next release will 2014-09-18T09:11:31Z moore33: I'm not surprised that anything with the name "fare" in it is using brand new features of asdf. 2014-09-18T09:11:31Z jusss joined #lisp 2014-09-18T09:11:54Z |3b|: not a new feature, was a bug in 3.0.x asdf 2014-09-18T09:11:58Z theos joined #lisp 2014-09-18T09:12:11Z |3b|: (though possibly a bug in a relatively new feature) 2014-09-18T09:12:58Z |3b|: and looks like sbcl 1.2.3 has asdf 3.1.3, which should work 2014-09-18T09:13:39Z moore33: These days I am very lazy and just use yum to get sbcl. 2014-09-18T09:14:12Z Shinmera: |3b|: Yeah but the current sbcl 1.2.2 is still on asdf 3.0.2 2014-09-18T09:14:32Z moore33: |3b|: By the way, I have officially dropped GLUT in favor of glop :) 2014-09-18T09:14:42Z |3b|: cool 2014-09-18T09:15:00Z |3b|: which OS do you use it on? 2014-09-18T09:15:18Z moore33: |3b|: Linux (sbcl) and Windows (ccl) 2014-09-18T09:17:59Z |3b|: moore33: if you didn't see it, https://github.com/3b/3bgl-shader is starting to be usable (don't remember if you were one of the people interested in it or not) 2014-09-18T09:18:01Z jtza8 joined #lisp 2014-09-18T09:19:37Z |3b|: Shinmera: 1.2.2 is ancient, 1.2.3 has been out for like 3 weeks or something like that :p 2014-09-18T09:19:48Z jusss quit (Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)) 2014-09-18T09:20:22Z mishoo quit (Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)) 2014-09-18T09:20:24Z Shinmera: |3b|: Ain't ancient if it's still current on Arch! 2014-09-18T09:20:49Z Shinmera: Though Arch seems weirdly slow on SBCL updates for some reason 2014-09-18T09:21:18Z moore33: |3b|: I glanced at it earlier in the summer and thought it looked interesting. My own lisp OpenGL project, https://github.com/timoore/lpsg, is not yet usable, but at least the low-level state mechanism works :) 2014-09-18T09:21:30Z moore33: lpsg -> scene graph in Lisp 2014-09-18T09:22:22Z |3b|: cool 2014-09-18T09:24:19Z driftcrow joined #lisp 2014-09-18T09:24:23Z |3b| needs to think about scene-graph stuff soon 2014-09-18T09:26:21Z moore33: |3b 2014-09-18T09:26:25Z moore33: uh 2014-09-18T09:27:26Z moore33: |3b|: I think we chatted about this before, but I'm following a design shown in http://on-demand.gputechconf.com/gtc/2013/presentations/S3032-Advanced-Scenegraph-Rendering-Pipeline.pdf 2014-09-18T09:27:42Z bit` joined #lisp 2014-09-18T09:29:55Z |3b| reads 2014-09-18T09:40:06Z znode quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 2014-09-18T09:40:20Z harish joined #lisp 2014-09-18T09:42:11Z driftcrow quit (Quit: Asta la vista) 2014-09-18T09:42:42Z mishoo joined #lisp 2014-09-18T09:42:46Z stepnem joined #lisp 2014-09-18T09:46:45Z Jesin quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-18T09:46:49Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-18T09:49:36Z juzdan quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-18T09:50:07Z juzdan joined #lisp 2014-09-18T09:50:48Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-09-18T09:53:41Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2014-09-18T09:56:20Z pt1 quit 2014-09-18T09:58:27Z varjag joined #lisp 2014-09-18T09:58:30Z Joreji quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-09-18T09:59:04Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T09:59:57Z patric joined #lisp 2014-09-18T10:03:15Z rstandy joined #lisp 2014-09-18T10:03:19Z Harag1 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T10:05:26Z gryyy_ joined #lisp 2014-09-18T10:08:45Z mingvs quit (Quit: leaving) 2014-09-18T10:09:27Z mingvs joined #lisp 2014-09-18T10:10:17Z gryyy_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T10:15:13Z pt1 joined #lisp 2014-09-18T10:19:41Z dmiles_afk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-18T10:19:58Z dmiles_afk joined #lisp 2014-09-18T10:21:24Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T10:24:22Z calliostro joined #lisp 2014-09-18T10:29:22Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-09-18T10:33:00Z echo-are` quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T10:34:54Z hitecnologys joined #lisp 2014-09-18T10:36:34Z loke is reading the docs on serapeum. It's laballed as a utility library, but it's the best version of a "new cl" or "cl2" orwhatever they want to call it, so far. 2014-09-18T10:37:49Z capitaomorte left #lisp 2014-09-18T10:38:04Z capitaomorte joined #lisp 2014-09-18T10:40:21Z madrik quit (Quit: away) 2014-09-18T10:47:09Z Harag joined #lisp 2014-09-18T10:47:17Z bit` quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-09-18T10:47:45Z kcj quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T10:49:44Z nipra joined #lisp 2014-09-18T10:53:35Z vydd joined #lisp 2014-09-18T10:54:27Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2014-09-18T10:56:53Z calliostro quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T10:59:46Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T11:00:10Z juzdan quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-18T11:00:36Z juzdan joined #lisp 2014-09-18T11:01:19Z bit` joined #lisp 2014-09-18T11:02:49Z urandom__ quit (Quit: Konversation terminated!) 2014-09-18T11:04:09Z Harag quit (Quit: Harag) 2014-09-18T11:06:05Z zacharias quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-18T11:06:40Z dkcl joined #lisp 2014-09-18T11:08:12Z kuzy000 joined #lisp 2014-09-18T11:12:05Z knob joined #lisp 2014-09-18T11:13:43Z resttime quit (Quit: resttime) 2014-09-18T11:15:33Z dkcl quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-09-18T11:16:49Z Longlius quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T11:27:50Z moore33: loke: Yeah, serapeum is provocative, which is a good thing. 2014-09-18T11:31:02Z wasamasa: provocative? 2014-09-18T11:31:11Z wasamasa: I'd rather label this cl21 thing that 2014-09-18T11:31:21Z wasamasa: although it is just because it isn't really thought through 2014-09-18T11:38:26Z moore33: wasamasa: Yes, provocative. Lots of interesting stuff from outside the CL bubble. 2014-09-18T11:38:57Z wasamasa: see http://cl21.org/ 2014-09-18T11:38:57Z DGASAU quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-18T11:39:09Z pt1 joined #lisp 2014-09-18T11:39:29Z munksgaard joined #lisp 2014-09-18T11:39:37Z DGASAU joined #lisp 2014-09-18T11:39:57Z sol__ joined #lisp 2014-09-18T11:40:37Z fe[nl]ix: moore33: that thing does provoke amusement 2014-09-18T11:40:44Z ikki joined #lisp 2014-09-18T11:40:47Z moore33: wasamasa: Yeah, that's interesting too. 2014-09-18T11:41:16Z pt1 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T11:41:30Z moore33: fe[nl]ix: Which thing? 2014-09-18T11:42:56Z dkcl joined #lisp 2014-09-18T11:43:35Z fe[nl]ix: cl21 2014-09-18T11:44:43Z fe[nl]ix: serapeum looks like it might have some useful stuff 2014-09-18T11:44:54Z fe[nl]ix: but provocative ? 2014-09-18T11:45:39Z wasamasa: not really 2014-09-18T11:45:53Z Shinmera: Someone with more history knowledge on CL please tell me how often people tried to revolutionise it through either another layer or a completely new language. 2014-09-18T11:46:00Z wasamasa: it's just a less specialized utilities library and doesn't modify the behaviour of the language itself 2014-09-18T11:46:18Z wasamasa: whereas this worries me: https://github.com/cl21/cl21/issues/38 2014-09-18T11:46:21Z dkcl: Shinmera: The latter is annoying. The former isn't asked about as often 2014-09-18T11:46:34Z dkcl cannot answer the former 2014-09-18T11:47:12Z Shinmera: I'm just interested in knowing how often it's been attempted before, with more or less certain failure as the outcome. 2014-09-18T11:47:31Z fe[nl]ix: Shinmera: quite often 2014-09-18T11:47:32Z dkcl: Well, look at Arc and Clojure, I suppose 2014-09-18T11:47:32Z Shinmera: Since it seems like a thing people would want to do rather quickly, given the general mentality prevalent in CL. 2014-09-18T11:47:39Z dkcl: But it seems to happen every ten minutes, somewhere 2014-09-18T11:48:09Z dkcl: Utility/wrapper libraries don't happen as often, and the most widely-used one is ALEXANDRIA 2014-09-18T11:48:19Z dkcl: I'm not sure what happened to CLOCC and such 2014-09-18T11:48:34Z Shinmera: I wouldn't count Alexandria in the same group as, say, CL21 2014-09-18T11:48:55Z juzdan quit (Quit: Leaving...) 2014-09-18T11:51:42Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T11:52:38Z splittist: I appreciate the eclecticism of serapeum. EFFACE - from Lisp 1.5. POP-ASSOC - from NewLisp. 2014-09-18T11:55:14Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2014-09-18T11:58:53Z rstandy quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-18T11:59:09Z rme joined #lisp 2014-09-18T11:59:52Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-09-18T11:59:53Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-09-18T12:00:25Z Elench joined #lisp 2014-09-18T12:02:33Z rme quit (Quit: rme) 2014-09-18T12:02:33Z rme quit (Client Quit) 2014-09-18T12:03:00Z nipra quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-18T12:04:41Z wasamasa: efface sounds a lot like defface 2014-09-18T12:04:56Z wasamasa: let's design OldLisp 2014-09-18T12:05:01Z Sgeo quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-18T12:06:57Z gryyy_ joined #lisp 2014-09-18T12:07:45Z Beetny quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-18T12:08:16Z zacharias joined #lisp 2014-09-18T12:08:41Z Elench: Let's use ¡Excited Lisp! 2014-09-18T12:11:22Z gryyy_ quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-09-18T12:13:41Z BitPuffin joined #lisp 2014-09-18T12:13:43Z nipra joined #lisp 2014-09-18T12:21:22Z varjag quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-09-18T12:23:17Z rstandy joined #lisp 2014-09-18T12:28:21Z munksgaard quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T12:33:32Z rvirding_ is now known as rvirding 2014-09-18T12:34:09Z varjag joined #lisp 2014-09-18T12:36:31Z Adlai: is there any way to get ~X to print lowercase? (short of calling string-downcase on the result) 2014-09-18T12:36:46Z |3b|: clhs ~( 2014-09-18T12:36:46Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_cha.htm 2014-09-18T12:37:21Z vydd quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T12:37:51Z DGASAU quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T12:38:06Z Adlai: ahh thank you |3b| 2014-09-18T12:38:37Z DGASAU joined #lisp 2014-09-18T12:42:45Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-18T12:43:25Z Longlius joined #lisp 2014-09-18T12:43:52Z prxq_ is now known as prxq 2014-09-18T12:45:21Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-09-18T12:49:23Z loiclisp joined #lisp 2014-09-18T12:51:28Z emma quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T12:51:57Z emma joined #lisp 2014-09-18T12:53:16Z drmeister: wasamasa: I just got official approval to release Clasp. I'm waiting now for language from legal to include with Clasp. 2014-09-18T12:53:28Z H4ns: woo-hoo 2014-09-18T12:53:37Z wasamasa: drmeister: nice 2014-09-18T12:53:40Z drmeister: Unfortunately my abstract for the LLVM meeting got turned down. 2014-09-18T12:53:51Z wasamasa: ._. 2014-09-18T12:54:08Z drmeister: Oh well, we'll just have to build a groundswell of support for Clasp on the interwebs. 2014-09-18T12:54:12Z wasamasa: maybe you should have just called it an implementation 2014-09-18T12:54:25Z TDog quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-18T12:55:12Z drmeister: There's no point in second guessing. I just keep moving forward. 2014-09-18T12:55:46Z drmeister: Did you see the tentative release announcement I posted earlier? I'm looking for free editing. 2014-09-18T12:56:06Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2014-09-18T12:56:35Z nipra quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-09-18T12:57:16Z splittist: drmeister: hooray! and just in time 2014-09-18T12:57:30Z splittist should have read further... 2014-09-18T12:58:04Z EvW joined #lisp 2014-09-18T12:58:16Z clop2 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T12:58:54Z drmeister: splittist: :-) 2014-09-18T13:00:20Z vinleod quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 2014-09-18T13:00:22Z mr-foobar quit (Quit: Leaving...) 2014-09-18T13:00:22Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-09-18T13:00:48Z drmeister: Here's the announcement draft: http://drmeister.wordpress.com/2014/09/18/announcing-clasp/ 2014-09-18T13:00:57Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-18T13:02:13Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-09-18T13:02:32Z nell joined #lisp 2014-09-18T13:03:16Z znode joined #lisp 2014-09-18T13:04:02Z drmeister: Hmm, my paragraph breaks disappeared. I guess you always have to edit the raw HTML. 2014-09-18T13:04:50Z Adlai: drmeister: congratulations! how about the http://matt.might.net/articles/crapl/ ? 2014-09-18T13:05:02Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2014-09-18T13:05:58Z drmeister: Adlai: I'm going to use LGPL. The ECL code I depend on is LGPL and I've had enough trouble and delays working with my IP office. 2014-09-18T13:06:36Z mncoder joined #lisp 2014-09-18T13:06:40Z drmeister: But I love this part about CRAPL: " it should absolve authors of shame, embarrassment and ridicule for ugly code" 2014-09-18T13:06:55Z mncoder quit (Client Quit) 2014-09-18T13:07:28Z Adlai: ridicule for ugly code is what I'm mostly worried about 2014-09-18T13:07:53Z Shinmera: That and things breaking horribly for unforeseen reasons. 2014-09-18T13:08:16Z drmeister: On the other hand, since Clasp has the tools to refactor it's own C++ code I'm planning the "big cleanup" where we will write a whole bunch of refactoring tools to make Clasp C++ code look like poetry. 2014-09-18T13:08:28Z emma quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T13:08:35Z madrik joined #lisp 2014-09-18T13:08:40Z wasamasa: mhh 2014-09-18T13:08:41Z Adlai: but there's also the converse, when you find out WHY things were breaking! https://github.com/adlai/scalpl/commit/ae5e7 2014-09-18T13:08:45Z wasamasa: C++ can indeed look like that 2014-09-18T13:08:47Z emma joined #lisp 2014-09-18T13:08:58Z wasamasa: I see it more often with C though :P 2014-09-18T13:09:22Z Cymew joined #lisp 2014-09-18T13:09:43Z wasamasa: drmeister: as I wrote earlier, I think it would be more consistent to call it a CL implementation with a set of special features that make it unique 2014-09-18T13:10:00Z wasamasa: drmeister: since programming environment rather sounds like you've packages your own emacs-like editor and all that stuff with it 2014-09-18T13:10:07Z rp__ joined #lisp 2014-09-18T13:10:30Z wasamasa: drmeister: although there is some truth to the statement it's a superset of common lisp 2014-09-18T13:10:36Z drmeister: wasamasa: I see what you mean - hang on. 2014-09-18T13:11:10Z wasamasa: drmeister: because I wouldn't expect language interoperation beyond FFI in an implementation of a programming language 2014-09-18T13:12:03Z wasamasa: drmeister: asides from that, maybe add a sentence about the boehm garbage collector? 2014-09-18T13:12:33Z wasamasa: drmeister: all I know is that it's a safe option if you want to bolt on garbage collection to existing C software 2014-09-18T13:12:45Z zacharias quit (Quit: Bye!) 2014-09-18T13:13:28Z emma quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-18T13:14:34Z drmeister: I've got to run soon to to catch a train so I put a placeholder in the first sentence and removed "programming environment" 2014-09-18T13:14:50Z alchemis7 left #lisp 2014-09-18T13:14:51Z alchemis7 joined #lisp 2014-09-18T13:14:52Z emma joined #lisp 2014-09-18T13:15:30Z drmeister: The MPS collector is intended to be the main collector so I want to mention the Boehm but not go into too much detail about them. GC is necessary but not the focus of the announcement. 2014-09-18T13:16:06Z wasamasa: hmm, I'd clarify that then by writing it's using MPS by default, but can also use Boehm as alternative GC strategy 2014-09-18T13:17:03Z drmeister: Right - it is confusing why there would be two. In reality the Boehm is used to build the interface to the MPS GC. 2014-09-18T13:18:40Z wasamasa: aha, so you bootstrap with both ECL and Boehm 2014-09-18T13:19:53Z emma quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T13:19:54Z drmeister: I don't bootstrap with ECL. I use ECL Common Lisp code throughout. 2014-09-18T13:20:14Z drmeister: Clasp is self bootstrapping. All you need is the Clang C++ compiler. 2014-09-18T13:21:53Z wasamasa: definitely a point to clarify :P 2014-09-18T13:22:24Z drmeister: It has an S-expression walking Common Lisp interpreter built in that bootstraps CL. 2014-09-18T13:23:35Z drmeister: wasamasa: I better go - I really appreciate your periodic prodding and reminding. 2014-09-18T13:23:59Z DGASAU quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T13:24:22Z drmeister: BBL 2014-09-18T13:24:25Z drmeister quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T13:24:27Z wasamasa: laters 2014-09-18T13:25:16Z DGASAU joined #lisp 2014-09-18T13:25:47Z eschulte joined #lisp 2014-09-18T13:26:08Z emma joined #lisp 2014-09-18T13:28:48Z oleo joined #lisp 2014-09-18T13:31:03Z emma quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T13:32:07Z emma joined #lisp 2014-09-18T13:33:54Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-09-18T13:34:01Z yrk joined #lisp 2014-09-18T13:34:26Z yrk quit (Changing host) 2014-09-18T13:34:26Z yrk joined #lisp 2014-09-18T13:34:36Z eschulte: I'd like a method `foo' to support setf forms such that *all* changes to the method are actually persisted in the form of diffs against some global reference. I have this working for the simple (setf foo x) case using `(defmethod (setf foo) ...)'. It is possible to support more complex forms like `(setf (car foo) x)' and if so how? 2014-09-18T13:35:20Z BitPuffin joined #lisp 2014-09-18T13:35:44Z eschulte: FWIW, I looked at `define-setf-expander', which seems like what I would use if I wanted to do this with a normal function, but it's not clear if there's an analagous function with object dispatch like defmethod. 2014-09-18T13:36:07Z jtza8 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T13:36:20Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-18T13:36:32Z emma quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-18T13:37:06Z Adlai: eschulte: setf expanders are run at macroexpansion-time, i think you need runtime dispatch 2014-09-18T13:37:09Z drmeister quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-18T13:37:23Z H4ns: eschulte: you cannot specialize car 2014-09-18T13:38:01Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-09-18T13:38:47Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-09-18T13:39:21Z eschulte: I was hoping that even with car as is, I could have setf expand to a form which would hand a copy of a list to subsequent setf macro expansions, then control how the final resulting value is applied to the object 2014-09-18T13:39:25Z clop: hrmn, it appears that (cl-fad:pathname-as-file (pathname "/")) causes a hard error on ccl/linux 2014-09-18T13:39:28Z eschulte: maybe I should think about a different approach... 2014-09-18T13:39:36Z dandersen joined #lisp 2014-09-18T13:40:13Z H4ns: eschulte: sounds like it. it would be confusing, too. 2014-09-18T13:40:20Z Adlai: you could have the setf expansion put in the functions which access the global reference, and have those functions perform runtime dispatch 2014-09-18T13:40:44Z Adlai: but at this point the question arises... what are you trying to accomplish? 2014-09-18T13:41:09Z dkcl quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-09-18T13:41:38Z eschulte: yeah, it might be too much magic, I was hoping to allow a drop-in replacement with this diff behavior through inclusion of a CLOS class, it basically works aside from this nested setf case 2014-09-18T13:42:15Z Ven joined #lisp 2014-09-18T13:42:37Z dandersen is now known as dkcl 2014-09-18T13:43:05Z emma joined #lisp 2014-09-18T13:44:27Z Ven quit (Client Quit) 2014-09-18T13:44:55Z vaporatorius joined #lisp 2014-09-18T13:45:18Z Ven joined #lisp 2014-09-18T13:46:58Z eudoxia joined #lisp 2014-09-18T13:48:15Z emma quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T13:48:51Z emma joined #lisp 2014-09-18T13:51:52Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-18T13:52:29Z clop: does anyone know where I can find the uiop readme? The links on cliki.net and common-lisp.net/projects/asdf seem to be broken 2014-09-18T13:53:09Z eudoxia: https://github.com/fare/asdf/tree/master/uiop#readme 2014-09-18T13:53:23Z rstandy quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T13:53:48Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-09-18T13:53:57Z emma quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T13:57:35Z vydd joined #lisp 2014-09-18T13:57:37Z clop: thanks much! 2014-09-18T13:59:01Z varjag quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-09-18T14:00:12Z Shinmera: eudoxia: What were you testing sqlite with? SBCL? 2014-09-18T14:01:19Z eudoxia: Shinmera: SBCL 1.2.2, cl-sqlite-20130615-git 2014-09-18T14:01:44Z Shinmera: eudoxia: Weird, that's exactly what I have. 2014-09-18T14:01:50Z eudoxia: Shinmera: (sqlite:connect "/home/eudoxia/test.db") ;; => # 2014-09-18T14:01:53Z posterdati300 joined #lisp 2014-09-18T14:02:27Z ikki quit (Quit: Saliendo) 2014-09-18T14:03:19Z Shinmera: eudoxia: sigh. http://shinmera.tymoon.eu/public/screenshot-2014.09.18-16:03:12.png 2014-09-18T14:04:54Z eudoxia: one of life's mysteries 2014-09-18T14:05:18Z Shinmera: I'm getting the same SBCL error on both my laptop and workstation, making it even more mysterious 2014-09-18T14:05:40Z Shinmera: or rather "error on SBCL" 2014-09-18T14:07:58Z eudoxia: Shinmera: weird, but this really wouldn't be the first time these voodoo errors happen 2014-09-18T14:08:27Z gryyy_ joined #lisp 2014-09-18T14:08:34Z Shinmera will just dev on CCL for now 2014-09-18T14:09:40Z eudoxia used CCL until recently because of weird reader macro errors, but went back to SBCL because CCL takes forever to hash passwords 2014-09-18T14:09:49Z eudoxia: <3 SBCL 2014-09-18T14:10:12Z wasamasa: hashing passwords? 2014-09-18T14:10:33Z DGASAU quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T14:10:53Z eudoxia: wasamasa: yeah, for the auth on my web framework 2014-09-18T14:11:29Z emma joined #lisp 2014-09-18T14:11:38Z DGASAU joined #lisp 2014-09-18T14:12:38Z wasamasa: oh right 2014-09-18T14:12:42Z gryyy_ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-18T14:13:07Z Shinmera: Having a hash library that leverages the GPU if possible would be nice 2014-09-18T14:15:49Z bit` quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-09-18T14:15:52Z ehu joined #lisp 2014-09-18T14:16:00Z emma quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-18T14:16:32Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-18T14:17:16Z |3b|: GPU are good for throughput, not as good for latency, so not sure how useful for normal password hashing 2014-09-18T14:17:27Z emma joined #lisp 2014-09-18T14:17:39Z |3b|: unless you have a very expensive hash and /very/ large passwords :p 2014-09-18T14:17:40Z eudoxia: meh, i'm fine with present performance 2014-09-18T14:18:20Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-09-18T14:18:37Z Shinmera: It's more of a thing that would be nice to have because it's interesting to me, since I have not much of a clue about the topic I can't say how useful it would be in practise. 2014-09-18T14:22:32Z emma quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-18T14:25:53Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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ZZZzzz…) 2014-09-18T14:57:59Z gingerale joined #lisp 2014-09-18T14:59:01Z DGASAU quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-18T14:59:44Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-09-18T14:59:46Z DGASAU joined #lisp 2014-09-18T15:00:00Z ndrei_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-09-18T15:00:25Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-18T15:00:25Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-09-18T15:00:54Z emma quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-09-18T15:01:48Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-09-18T15:02:04Z circ-user-7Na6j_ joined #lisp 2014-09-18T15:02:09Z ndrei_ joined #lisp 2014-09-18T15:02:10Z janmuffino joined #lisp 2014-09-18T15:03:45Z circ-user-7Na6j quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T15:06:24Z marsbot is now known as marsam 2014-09-18T15:08:40Z janmuffino quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-09-18T15:13:45Z emma joined #lisp 2014-09-18T15:13:51Z drmeister: Is there anyone who would be interested in alpha testing the Clasp build process on OS X and Linux? 2014-09-18T15:15:23Z drmeister: If you are, hit me up with a /msg 2014-09-18T15:15:48Z gendl joined #lisp 2014-09-18T15:15:51Z gendl: join #quicklisp 2014-09-18T15:16:26Z Bike joined #lisp 2014-09-18T15:16:37Z Karl_Dscc joined #lisp 2014-09-18T15:16:46Z Oberon4278 joined #lisp 2014-09-18T15:17:46Z fragamus joined #lisp 2014-09-18T15:18:03Z splittist: gendl: but we have 2014-09-18T15:18:19Z duggiefresh joined #lisp 2014-09-18T15:18:30Z gendl: sorry, missed my slash on the join commadn 2014-09-18T15:18:34Z gendl: command 2014-09-18T15:19:03Z oGMo: join or be slow 2014-09-18T15:20:06Z k-stz joined #lisp 2014-09-18T15:20:52Z ndrei_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-18T15:20:52Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-18T15:21:03Z xificurC quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-18T15:21:34Z munksgaard joined #lisp 2014-09-18T15:23:25Z mr-foobar joined #lisp 2014-09-18T15:23:39Z DGASAU quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T15:23:40Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-18T15:24:49Z zophy quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-09-18T15:24:58Z DGASAU joined #lisp 2014-09-18T15:27:28Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-09-18T15:27:31Z ndrei_ joined #lisp 2014-09-18T15:28:19Z beach joined #lisp 2014-09-18T15:28:30Z beach: Good evening everyone! 2014-09-18T15:29:35Z Cymew quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T15:30:07Z beach: Memory is a strange thing. I knew that SETQ is treated as SETF when the variable has a definition as a symbol macro, but I didn't remember that this is only so if the symbol macro is defined with SYMBOL-MACROLET. 2014-09-18T15:30:27Z beach: So now I have to distinguish between local and global symbol macros in Cleavir. 2014-09-18T15:30:51Z eudoxia: why not alias setq to setf 2014-09-18T15:31:23Z fe[nl]ix: can't do that 2014-09-18T15:31:26Z mishoo joined #lisp 2014-09-18T15:31:41Z beach: eudoxia: Because SETF expands to SETQ for variables. 2014-09-18T15:31:51Z eudoxia: ah, right 2014-09-18T15:32:39Z Bike: wait, what? what kind of rule is that? 2014-09-18T15:32:43Z Bike: the global symbol macro thing. 2014-09-18T15:32:53Z beach: clhs setq 2014-09-18T15:32:53Z specbot: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_setq.htm 2014-09-18T15:33:12Z Bike: define-symbol-macro doesn't seem to agree. 2014-09-18T15:33:21Z Bike: also, that would be kind of insane? what would happen 2014-09-18T15:33:32Z circ-user-7Na6j joined #lisp 2014-09-18T15:33:39Z beach: "If any var refers to a binding made by symbol-macrolet, then that var is treated as if setf (not setq) had been used. " 2014-09-18T15:34:08Z Bike: yeah, and then in define-symbol-macro "Any use of setq to set the value of the symbol while in the scope of this definition is treated as if it were a setf." 2014-09-18T15:34:10Z Krystof: there's separate language on the page for define-symbol-macro 2014-09-18T15:34:12Z Krystof: as Bike says 2014-09-18T15:34:26Z Bike: and i mean, what would (setq global-macro ...) do then. 2014-09-18T15:34:29Z beach: Crap! 2014-09-18T15:35:01Z Bike: probably should throw this into http://www.cliki.net/proposed%20ansi%20revisions%20and%20clarifications somewhere 2014-09-18T15:35:20Z circ-user-7Na6j_ quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-18T15:36:24Z Bike: so you don't have to distinguish local and global symbol macros, i say. 2014-09-18T15:36:24Z moore33: beach: Hey beach! 2014-09-18T15:36:28Z beach: Here I thought my memory was bad, and instead it is the Common Lisp HyperSpec that is inconsistent. 2014-09-18T15:36:35Z beach: Hello moore33. 2014-09-18T15:37:00Z beach: Bike: Yeah, makes sense. :( 2014-09-18T15:37:16Z Bike: what, did you already start making them different? 2014-09-18T15:37:22Z moore33: Sorry I never finished my doc on gadgets; still thinking about it, plus I got distracted by other stuff. 2014-09-18T15:37:38Z beach: Bike: Yeah, but no big deal. It takes minutes to undo. 2014-09-18T15:37:47Z ehu quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-09-18T15:37:52Z DGASAU quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T15:39:01Z beach: moore33: Yeah. I was distracted by ILC and now again by SICL/Cleavir. 2014-09-18T15:39:12Z DGASAU joined #lisp 2014-09-18T15:39:45Z moore33: beach: Don't know Cleavir. 2014-09-18T15:39:45Z splittist: And now CLASP is about to be unleashed upon an unsuspecting and uncomprehending world 2014-09-18T15:39:59Z beach: minion: Please tell moore33 about Cleavir. 2014-09-18T15:39:59Z minion: moore33: Cleavir: A project to create an implementation-independent compilation framework for Common Lisp. Currently Cleavir is part of SICL, but that might change in the future 2014-09-18T15:40:14Z beach: splittist: Yeah, I saw that in the logs. 2014-09-18T15:40:19Z beach: Finally! 2014-09-18T15:40:30Z moore33: Cool stuff. 2014-09-18T15:41:03Z moore33: beach: I have made some progress on my scene graph implementation. A very low-level part of it is currently running on Linux and Windows. 2014-09-18T15:41:28Z beach: moore33: Yeah, I managed to factor out the environment functions so that they become generic function to be customized by each implementation. Now the code is much cleaner too. 2014-09-18T15:41:40Z beach: moore33: Excellent! Any demos? 2014-09-18T15:41:46Z beach: moore33: Or screen casts? 2014-09-18T15:43:48Z moore33: beach: Not quite. The code is checked in on github and only depends on packages available through quicklisp, but no documentation yet. Also, the test app isn't exactly impressive :) 2014-09-18T15:44:05Z drmeister: beach: I don't know if this helps but this is what I did: https://gist.github.com/drmeister/6efce273537d380e6e29 2014-09-18T15:44:06Z zophy joined #lisp 2014-09-18T15:44:15Z beach: moore33: When I Googled for "lpsg", the first hit I got is some "adult community" stuff. Is that name chosen on purpose? 2014-09-18T15:44:28Z moore33: beach: Excellent! 2014-09-18T15:45:08Z moore33: beach: "Lisp Post Scene Graph". From when I was determined to not create another scene graph :P 2014-09-18T15:45:27Z beach: moore33: I see. 2014-09-18T15:45:43Z drmeister: When I generate code for SETQ I try to macroexpand the symbol, if it does macroexpand then I change it to a SETF and codegen it again. 2014-09-18T15:45:52Z drmeister: That works in every case I've tried. 2014-09-18T15:45:55Z beach: drmeister: Thanks. Thanks to the Common Lisp HyperSpec, I now know how to do it both ways. 2014-09-18T15:46:10Z moore33: I see that lpsg.com could cause confusion. 2014-09-18T15:46:47Z beach: Indeed. 2014-09-18T15:48:58Z fe[nl]ix: try a cooler name 2014-09-18T15:49:28Z moore33: fe[nl]ix: With this new information, I think it is cooler than ever. 2014-09-18T15:49:30Z drmeister quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-18T15:49:37Z beach: Heh! 2014-09-18T15:49:39Z drmeiste_ joined #lisp 2014-09-18T15:49:58Z moore33: In the same vein as Climacs and Climatis :) 2014-09-18T15:50:09Z beach: Hey! Clematis is just a plant. 2014-09-18T15:50:38Z moore33: beach: Yeah, and a very cool plant at that. I think there is some fine logo potential there. 2014-09-18T15:50:50Z beach: Yep. 2014-09-18T15:51:34Z beach: But Climydia is not taken if you want it. 2014-09-18T15:51:42Z moore33: I don't want it. 2014-09-18T15:51:58Z beach: Yeah, I advice against it. 2014-09-18T15:52:16Z beach: "advise"? I forget. 2014-09-18T15:52:24Z moore33: advise 2014-09-18T15:52:27Z beach: Right. 2014-09-18T15:52:58Z marsam is now known as marsbot 2014-09-18T15:53:08Z drewc: "My advice would be against it" for that tense 2014-09-18T15:53:23Z beach: drewc: Yeah, got it. Thanks! 2014-09-18T15:53:24Z drewc: (good-morning "#lisp") 2014-09-18T15:53:34Z moore33: beach: Btw, I met someone else recently who has "Behind Bars." A very cool young musician (saxaphonist) that we know. 2014-09-18T15:53:58Z beach: moore33: Oh, nice. An excellent book! Very complete! 2014-09-18T15:54:05Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-18T15:54:24Z beach: Do I know the person as well? 2014-09-18T15:54:38Z moore33: beach: He's also a composer, very down on Sibelius and whatever the competitor is called. 2014-09-18T15:54:49Z raymondillo left #lisp 2014-09-18T15:54:54Z beach: Yeah, Sibelius. 2014-09-18T15:55:03Z moore33: beach: I don't think so. He's an American named Jacob. 2014-09-18T15:55:09Z beach: OK. 2014-09-18T15:55:17Z drewc has an alto sax ... and is having his coffee so thinks he is relevant for some reason. mmmmm. 2014-09-18T15:55:30Z moore33: A good friend of Rachel's piano teacher. 2014-09-18T15:55:40Z beach: moore33: What's his problem with Sibelius? 2014-09-18T15:55:46Z beach: I thought that was a good one. 2014-09-18T15:55:47Z moore33: That it sucks. 2014-09-18T15:55:52Z beach: Oh! 2014-09-18T15:56:03Z moore33: I think it's hard to get it to do exactly what you want. 2014-09-18T15:56:30Z splittist: If you suck on your saxophone it's going to be hard to... Oh. 2014-09-18T15:56:53Z moore33: But, interestingly, your strategy of worrying mostly about the screen representation of the score may pay off as people move to tablets for displaying the score during a performance. 2014-09-18T15:57:20Z beach: moore33: Aha! Sure. Should have seen that coming. 2014-09-18T15:57:25Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-09-18T15:57:25Z attila_lendvai quit (Changing host) 2014-09-18T15:57:25Z attila_lendvai joined #lisp 2014-09-18T15:57:41Z beach: Now I can't remember what the "standard" Windows notation software is called. 2014-09-18T15:58:00Z moore33: Neither do I, though Jacob told me the other day. 2014-09-18T15:58:39Z beach: Oh, "Finale" 2014-09-18T15:58:52Z zophy quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-09-18T15:59:16Z moore33: Yes. Apparently that one is at least attractive, with a sort of fake-manuscript background, but it also is not flexible. 2014-09-18T15:59:31Z nell quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1-dev) 2014-09-18T15:59:36Z beach: moore33: I booked the name "Clovetree" for the successor of Gsharp, in the spirit of Rosegarden and Lilypond. OK with you? 2014-09-18T15:59:59Z moore33: Sure! nice. 2014-09-18T16:00:22Z posterdati300 quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-09-18T16:01:19Z beach: CLIM3/Climatis needs a whole new set of gestures compared to CLIM II so that it can run on tablets. Keyword symbols and characters won't be enough. 2014-09-18T16:01:55Z beach: It looks like gestures will be standard objects instead. 2014-09-18T16:02:13Z beach: ... which is better anyway, because then it will be easier to dispatch on them. 2014-09-18T16:02:30Z moore33: Yeah, been contemplating that... how best do represent drags.The Android documentation makes for interesting reading in that regard. 2014-09-18T16:02:47Z splittist: and voice: insert quaver 2014-09-18T16:02:58Z beach: moore33: I imagine so, yes. Some day I will take the time to read it. 2014-09-18T16:03:31Z beach: splittist: Not enough. There can be several (2) voices on a staff (stave). 2014-09-18T16:03:38Z zopzoo joined #lisp 2014-09-18T16:04:08Z moore33: beach: Briefly, if I understand it right, Android doesn't have an especially exotic event representation, but does allow for more than one pointer at a time, or 0 pointers of course. 2014-09-18T16:04:12Z splittist: points at stave while humming... 2014-09-18T16:04:17Z beach: :) 2014-09-18T16:04:29Z moore33: ... and some higher level concept of drag and drop. 2014-09-18T16:04:30Z Blaguvest joined #lisp 2014-09-18T16:04:53Z circ-user-7Na6j_ joined #lisp 2014-09-18T16:04:54Z beach: moore33: That fact might make it easier to create relevant gestures for CLIM3/Climatis. 2014-09-18T16:05:08Z moore33: yes 2014-09-18T16:06:02Z Longlius quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T16:06:13Z beach: Tablet gestures for CLIM3/Climatis will be an interesting back-burner contemplation project. 2014-09-18T16:06:24Z circ-user-7Na6j quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-09-18T16:07:29Z leo2007 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T16:08:56Z drewc: So I wanted to have my morning cuppa-joe while reading about CL so I can start to focus on work ... but I recently got a 4-string tenor banjo, and regardless of what the chatter was about ... sigh ... I am now off to play along with "The Dubliners". Next time I will try #celtic-folk or something so I can focus on CL! :) 2014-09-18T16:09:25Z beach: splittist: I can't form my life remember the British terminology for notes of different duration. Isn't there one called hemi semi demi quaver or something like that? 2014-09-18T16:09:59Z gryyy joined #lisp 2014-09-18T16:10:02Z drmeiste_: Cool - there's a new XCode 6.0.1 that just came out. Let's see if it fixes the hundred problems I have with lldb. 2014-09-18T16:10:04Z splittist: beach: yes - hemi demi semi I think. 2014-09-18T16:10:19Z drmeiste_ quit (Quit: Leaving...) 2014-09-18T16:10:30Z beach: drewc: Are you saying we are off topic? 2014-09-18T16:10:50Z Ven joined #lisp 2014-09-18T16:11:16Z drewc: beach: not at all. If anything, I was/am. My apologies!! 2014-09-18T16:11:19Z wizzo quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2014-09-18T16:11:23Z mishoo joined #lisp 2014-09-18T16:11:34Z beach: drewc: Oh, I see. 2014-09-18T16:14:03Z drewc: and really, I much prefer music over lisping ... had a record deal when I was 15, played all the nightclubs in Toronto.... and am happy to play my Banjo rather than my REPL, which is all better than continue my off topic and irrelevant IRC'ing. 2014-09-18T16:14:33Z gryyy quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T16:14:40Z drewc could not help himself with that last one ... 09:14 AM so still in the dream state it seems. 2014-09-18T16:14:42Z innertracks quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T16:14:52Z moore33: gotta go. 2014-09-18T16:14:55Z moore33 quit 2014-09-18T16:17:19Z aretecode joined #lisp 2014-09-18T16:17:42Z ehu joined #lisp 2014-09-18T16:18:13Z drmeister joined #lisp 2014-09-18T16:20:54Z mishoo quit (Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)) 2014-09-18T16:22:45Z goldenlight joined #lisp 2014-09-18T16:23:57Z mvilleneuve joined #lisp 2014-09-18T16:24:15Z phao joined #lisp 2014-09-18T16:25:20Z Jesin joined #lisp 2014-09-18T16:25:21Z mishoo joined #lisp 2014-09-18T16:25:35Z zophy joined #lisp 2014-09-18T16:27:18Z ndrei_ quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-09-18T16:27:22Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-18T16:28:44Z davazp joined #lisp 2014-09-18T16:36:14Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-09-18T16:36:18Z ndrei_ joined #lisp 2014-09-18T16:36:43Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T16:37:12Z circ-user-7Na6j_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-09-18T16:39:09Z pjb: beach: I guess it's an overlook in the formulation of SETQ. Otherwise it would mean that you cannot use the symbol macro defined by define-symbol-macro with SETQ, which would rather miss the point. 2014-09-18T16:39:14Z hiroakip joined #lisp 2014-09-18T16:39:53Z pjb: beach: besides, clhs define-symbol-macro says "Any use of setq to set the value of the symbol while in the scope of this definition is treated as if it were a setf." 2014-09-18T16:40:03Z lispNoob joined #lisp 2014-09-18T16:40:10Z lispNoob: hi 2014-09-18T16:40:23Z pjb: beach: and clhs symbol-macrolet says "When the forms of the symbol-macrolet form are expanded, any use of setq to set the value of one of the specified variables is treated as if it were a setf." 2014-09-18T16:40:29Z hitecnologys quit (Quit: hitecnologys) 2014-09-18T16:40:41Z lispNoob: can I decode lisp universal time without being on lisp? 2014-09-18T16:40:43Z pjb: beach: so clearly, there's no distinction between local and lexical. 2014-09-18T16:40:49Z pjb: lispNoob: yes. 2014-09-18T16:40:56Z lispNoob: how? 2014-09-18T16:41:11Z pjb: You just have not to be an idiot, and determine the leap years correctly. 2014-09-18T16:42:25Z pjb: universal times are seconds since 1900-01-01 00:00:00 GMT. 2014-09-18T16:42:26Z Grue`: lispNoob: if you add a constant you get a unix time 2014-09-18T16:42:39Z Grue`: the only thing left is to determine the constant 2014-09-18T16:42:44Z lispNoob: k 2014-09-18T16:43:04Z lispNoob: so its all seconds? 2014-09-18T16:43:07Z pjb: yes. 2014-09-18T16:43:10Z lispNoob: cool 2014-09-18T16:43:12Z lispNoob: cheers 2014-09-18T16:43:21Z lispNoob quit (Client Quit) 2014-09-18T16:43:23Z Grue`: (defvar *unix-epoch-difference* (encode-universal-time 0 0 0 1 1 1970 0)) 2014-09-18T16:43:31Z Grue`: damnit he left 2014-09-18T16:43:33Z pjb: But be sure to check the leap year algorithm, a lot of people just get it wrong. 2014-09-18T16:43:49Z jasom: pjb like Lotus-123 2014-09-18T16:44:09Z jasom: which is why excel treats 1900 as a leap-year (for backwards compatibility with 123) 2014-09-18T16:48:01Z BitPuffin quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T16:49:22Z askatasuna joined #lisp 2014-09-18T16:49:28Z `JRG quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-09-18T16:51:37Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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Is there a more succinct way to express it? 2014-09-18T19:54:42Z mutley89 joined #lisp 2014-09-18T19:54:57Z mr-foobar quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-09-18T19:55:09Z Ven: PuercoPop: a compose function? alambda? 2014-09-18T19:55:10Z |3b|: is that (every 'identity ...)? 2014-09-18T19:55:22Z Ven: |3b|: #'identity? 2014-09-18T19:55:35Z |3b|: if you want to type an extra character, sure 2014-09-18T19:55:53Z Ven: |3b|: sorry, I'm reading on lisp, sooo ... :( 2014-09-18T19:56:13Z |3b|: a symbol is a designator for the function named by that symbol 2014-09-18T19:56:33Z |3b|: so if you are lazy you can just pass the name instead of the function object 2014-09-18T19:57:01Z Oberon4278 quit 2014-09-18T19:57:09Z Ven: |3b|: does that work for anything using apply/funcall/...? 2014-09-18T19:57:22Z drewc: |3b|: save for FLET/LABELS'd where they differ (thank (not nil))! 2014-09-18T19:57:33Z |3b|: (it might be slower in some cases, and has different implications for redefinition of the function, but CL functions can't be redefined) 2014-09-18T19:57:48Z sz0 joined #lisp 2014-09-18T19:57:56Z |3b|: true, symbol is a designator for the /global/ function named by that symbol 2014-09-18T19:57:56Z sz0 quit (Max SendQ exceeded) 2014-09-18T19:58:04Z |3b|: Ven: yes, works for anything 2014-09-18T19:58:08Z drewc: but yeah, for CL: I always use the symbol. 2014-09-18T19:58:11Z Ven: |3b|: noted. Thanks! 2014-09-18T19:58:28Z Grue`: I never use the symbol, always #'. except for lambdas 2014-09-18T19:58:40Z PuercoPop: ah I knew I was missing something, thanks |3b| 2014-09-18T19:58:49Z drewc: and usually prefix it with 'cl: because it matters and I shadow a wee bit. 2014-09-18T19:58:57Z |3b|: ah, maybe it is the swank:*use-dedicated-output-stream* breaking things 2014-09-18T19:58:58Z Ven: Grue`: why not then? 2014-09-18T19:59:40Z Grue`: it makes it more obvious that it's a function 2014-09-18T19:59:49Z |3b|: there are a few cases where you would want to specifically use one or the other, like if you are calling a local function you have to use #' 2014-09-18T20:00:02Z drewc: Grue`: I used to be the same way before I started using interface passing style ... now for a DEFUN'd thing I use the symbol, just to make sure I am using the correct FUNCTION 2014-09-18T20:01:07Z kushal quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-09-18T20:01:25Z |3b|: for some things, like a hook that gets called in some situation, using the symbol might let you redefine the function without updating the hook every time 2014-09-18T20:01:35Z drewc: (with-interface ...) expands to FLET'd things, and what is FLET'd might change with the interface being passed, where SYMBOL-FUNCTION is always the symbol's function. 2014-09-18T20:01:54Z kushal joined #lisp 2014-09-18T20:02:04Z ryankarason joined #lisp 2014-09-18T20:02:30Z drewc: |3b|: yes very true for macros that expand to FUNCALL/APPLY ... using the symbol saves a giant recompile when things change. 2014-09-18T20:02:42Z kushal quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-18T20:06:41Z sz0 joined #lisp 2014-09-18T20:08:49Z mvilleneuve quit (Quit: This computer has gone to sleep) 2014-09-18T20:11:37Z sprang left #lisp 2014-09-18T20:12:52Z gryyy joined #lisp 2014-09-18T20:14:20Z lavokad left #lisp 2014-09-18T20:17:27Z gryyy quit (Ping timeout: 244 seconds) 2014-09-18T20:20:09Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-09-18T20:20:10Z `JRG quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-09-18T20:20:45Z ndrei_ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-09-18T20:22:25Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-18T20:23:07Z superjudge___ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-18T20:23:26Z endou____ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-09-18T20:23:27Z gz quit (Ping timeout: 180 seconds) 2014-09-18T20:23:32Z victor_lowther__ quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-18T20:24:18Z klltkr joined #lisp 2014-09-18T20:24:48Z superjudge____ joined #lisp 2014-09-18T20:24:52Z victor_lowther__ joined #lisp 2014-09-18T20:24:55Z drmeiste_ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T20:25:23Z endou_____ joined #lisp 2014-09-18T20:29:04Z klltkr is now known as klltkr[Yes] 2014-09-18T20:29:50Z Ven quit (Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz…) 2014-09-18T20:33:07Z Karl_Dscc quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T20:38:57Z arenz quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 2014-09-18T20:39:16Z `JRG joined #lisp 2014-09-18T20:41:25Z fragamus joined #lisp 2014-09-18T20:41:36Z dkcl joined #lisp 2014-09-18T20:45:09Z |3b|: yeah, looks like it is swank:*use-dedicated-output-stream* 2014-09-18T20:46:04Z drmeiste_ joined #lisp 2014-09-18T20:46:15Z mutley89 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T20:47:28Z jkaye joined #lisp 2014-09-18T20:51:03Z capitaomorte: PuercoPop: maybe (notany #'null ...) is cleaner 2014-09-18T20:51:40Z ski quit (Ping timeout: 250 seconds) 2014-09-18T20:52:12Z jegaxd26 joined #lisp 2014-09-18T20:52:41Z Paul_McFreely quit (Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.) 2014-09-18T20:53:18Z Paul_McFreely joined #lisp 2014-09-18T20:53:27Z malice joined #lisp 2014-09-18T20:54:37Z Vivitron quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-18T20:57:12Z typhonic quit (Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de) 2014-09-18T20:57:25Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-09-18T20:57:34Z ski joined #lisp 2014-09-18T20:59:22Z Shinmera quit (Quit: ZzzzZz) 2014-09-18T21:01:24Z Jesin quit (Quit: Leaving) 2014-09-18T21:01:40Z duggiefresh quit 2014-09-18T21:02:18Z ndrei_ joined #lisp 2014-09-18T21:04:08Z fridim__ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T21:04:46Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T21:05:17Z ndrei joined #lisp 2014-09-18T21:05:38Z nell quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1-dev) 2014-09-18T21:06:56Z drmeiste_ quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-18T21:07:24Z ericmathison joined #lisp 2014-09-18T21:08:09Z slyrus joined #lisp 2014-09-18T21:08:18Z knob is now known as Guest22269 2014-09-18T21:08:32Z kuzy000 quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-18T21:13:01Z PuercoPop: capitaomorte: well I'm not a fan of double negation. Btw are you going to submit fiasco to ql? 2014-09-18T21:13:57Z drmeiste_ joined #lisp 2014-09-18T21:14:02Z schaueho quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-09-18T21:14:40Z malice quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T21:16:51Z pjb: PuercoPop: but you don't have any problem with triple negation apparently. 2014-09-18T21:17:26Z nell joined #lisp 2014-09-18T21:18:43Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2014-09-18T21:18:44Z pjb: jackdaniel: for non-list sequences it's probably faster to call length than anything else. So (defun empty-sequence-p (seq) (typecase seq (null t) (cons nil) (t (zerop (length seq))))) 2014-09-18T21:20:52Z PuercoPop: pjb: I have. That is why I didn't like my initial solution. 2014-09-18T21:21:41Z vot-repub joined #lisp 2014-09-18T21:22:03Z vot-repub: anyone here run a website using lisp? 2014-09-18T21:22:30Z EvW quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T21:23:15Z pjb: PuercoPop: you could have been a detractor of double-negation, instead of not being a fan of it! 2014-09-18T21:23:30Z pjb: vot-repub: I have one. 2014-09-18T21:23:37Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T21:24:06Z pjb: vot-repub: this little used web site runs on some old version of sbcl with hunchentoot http://films.willcom.fr/ 2014-09-18T21:24:12Z pjb: vot-repub: does this answer your question? 2014-09-18T21:24:35Z pjb: Hunchentoot 0.15.7 (SBCL 1.0.20) 2014-09-18T21:24:46Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-09-18T21:25:07Z innertracks quit (Client Quit) 2014-09-18T21:25:21Z PuercoPop: doubly right 2014-09-18T21:25:47Z drmeist__ joined #lisp 2014-09-18T21:25:57Z drmeist__ quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T21:26:29Z 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want to submit, which is that you don't need to use DEFINE-TEST-PACKAGE at all 2014-09-18T21:54:01Z capitaomorte: your tests are just collected in a suite associated with the current package 2014-09-18T21:55:33Z nell quit (Quit: WeeChat 1.1-dev) 2014-09-18T21:55:56Z jtza8 quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T21:57:30Z tadni joined #lisp 2014-09-18T22:09:59Z logand` quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T22:17:36Z mishoo quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-18T22:18:16Z gryyy quit 2014-09-18T22:19:22Z dmiles_afk quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-18T22:19:32Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2014-09-18T22:19:49Z dmiles_afk joined #lisp 2014-09-18T22:19:58Z zopzoo quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-09-18T22:21:08Z bgs100 joined #lisp 2014-09-18T22:22:01Z leo2007 joined #lisp 2014-09-18T22:22:29Z Vivitron joined #lisp 2014-09-18T22:23:52Z hiyosi quit (Ping timeout: 240 seconds) 2014-09-18T22:26:07Z askatasuna quit (Ping timeout: 245 seconds) 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2014-09-18T22:57:49Z innertracks joined #lisp 2014-09-18T22:59:09Z xenophon joined #lisp 2014-09-18T22:59:13Z xenophon quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T23:00:13Z rp__ quit (Ping timeout: 258 seconds) 2014-09-18T23:01:08Z innertracks quit (Client Quit) 2014-09-18T23:01:11Z vaporatorius quit (Remote host closed the connection) 2014-09-18T23:01:55Z hiyosi joined #lisp 2014-09-18T23:02:02Z rp__ joined #lisp 2014-09-18T23:03:02Z faheem__1: this trivial 3 line function is giving me an error: (defun myfibo (n) (let* ((fibarr (make-array n))) (setf (aref fibarr 0) 0) (setf (aref fibarr 1) 1) (dotimes (i n) (setf (aref fibarr i) (aref fibarr (- i 1)))) fibarr)) 2014-09-18T23:03:40Z faheem__1: Error: The value -1 is not of type SB-INT:INDEX. 2014-09-18T23:03:43Z vanila: faheem__1, can you post it to lisppaste? 2014-09-18T23:03:47Z vanila: it's hard to read on just one line 2014-09-18T23:03:54Z faheem__1: vanila: ok. one sec 2014-09-18T23:04:16Z slyrus quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-18T23:04:55Z Sgeo joined #lisp 2014-09-18T23:05:15Z faheem__1: vanila: http://paste.lisp.org/display/143767 2014-09-18T23:05:25Z faheem__1: no doubt this is trivial, but i'm not seeing it. 2014-09-18T23:05:33Z faheem__1: the individual pieces work 2014-09-18T23:05:57Z faheem__1: haven't written any CL code for a bit - trying to de-rust 2014-09-18T23:07:30Z PuercoPop: faheem__1: fibarr (- i 1) is is goint to point to -1 on teh first pass 2014-09-18T23:07:39Z LiamH quit (Quit: Leaving.) 2014-09-18T23:07:57Z PuercoPop: (there is a function (1- ...) btw) 2014-09-18T23:08:04Z faheem__1: PuercoPop: oh, right 2014-09-18T23:08:19Z faheem__1: hmm, the error is an out of range error? 2014-09-18T23:08:34Z faheem__1: (1- ...) ? 2014-09-18T23:08:47Z PuercoPop: yes 2014-09-18T23:08:54Z faheem__1: i'll just start the looping later 2014-09-18T23:09:03Z faheem__1: PuercoPop: is that in the standard? link? 2014-09-18T23:09:25Z marsbot is now known as marsam 2014-09-18T23:09:39Z PuercoPop: for 1-? http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_1pl_1_.htm 2014-09-18T23:09:51Z faheem__1: PuercoPop: thanks, yes for 1- 2014-09-18T23:09:55Z slyrus joined #lisp 2014-09-18T23:10:32Z justinmcp joined #lisp 2014-09-18T23:11:32Z PuercoPop: You can use C-c C-d C-h in Slime to go the function definition in clhs. Otherwise you can search the clhs with use xach.com/clhs. 2014-09-18T23:12:03Z oleo is now known as Guest82342 2014-09-18T23:12:09Z faheem__1: PuercoPop: yes, i'm using C-c C-d C-h, actually C-c C-d h. 2014-09-18T23:12:24Z faheem__1: PuercoPop: oh, that may be a different command 2014-09-18T23:13:34Z faheem__1: no, C-c C-d C-h doesn't seem to do anything 2014-09-18T23:13:47Z oleo__ joined #lisp 2014-09-18T23:14:36Z ndrei_ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T23:15:01Z ndrei quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-18T23:15:37Z Guest82342 quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T23:15:50Z PuercoPop: Well I'm currently using sly and it is C-h here. But iirc it was the same in slime. C-h w slime-documentation-lookup 2014-09-18T23:16:27Z DrCode quit (Ping timeout: 264 seconds) 2014-09-18T23:16:40Z faheem__1: PuercoPop: ok. 2014-09-18T23:16:52Z faheem__1: sly is the new fork of slime, right? 2014-09-18T23:16:59Z faheem__1: does slime really need a fork? 2014-09-18T23:18:25Z DrCode joined #lisp 2014-09-18T23:20:49Z Hydan` joined #lisp 2014-09-18T23:21:13Z Hydan` is now known as Guest42090 2014-09-18T23:21:39Z PuercoPop: yeah, it is. idk if anything 'needs' a fork but I agree with the author that moving slime to use the 'native' emacs UI widgets was an extensive modification and would be troublesome without forking. 2014-09-18T23:26:29Z Guest42090 quit (Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in) 2014-09-18T23:27:03Z Hydan joined #lisp 2014-09-18T23:31:34Z rp__ quit (Ping timeout: 272 seconds) 2014-09-18T23:33:00Z jlongster quit (Ping timeout: 255 seconds) 2014-09-18T23:33:29Z slyrus: stop me if this sounds insane, but I'm thinking of using cells... or are there other (non-UI) data flow packages I should consider? 2014-09-18T23:34:44Z jasom: slyrus: cells is the only dataflow package I'm aware of. 2014-09-18T23:34:49Z PuercoPop: slyrus: I don't think it is insane. I think Kenny Tilton even uses cells for the browser with parenscript with quxdoo. Then again I haven't use cells 2014-09-18T23:35:05Z pillton: slyrus: Cells is good. I've used it. There is also CL-BACTERIA. 2014-09-18T23:35:43Z slyrus: ok, thanks 2014-09-18T23:35:58Z pillton: It takes a while to get used to it. 2014-09-18T23:41:37Z faheem__1: PuercoPop: the 'native' emacs UI widgets? i don't know what that is. excuse my ignorance. 2014-09-18T23:41:47Z jlongster joined #lisp 2014-09-18T23:42:37Z faheem__1: and slime doesn't use these 'native' things? 2014-09-18T23:48:11Z jlongster quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) 2014-09-18T23:48:19Z jlongste` joined #lisp 2014-09-18T23:48:29Z faheem__1: (dotimes (i 2 5) (print i)) -> (0 1 5), not sure why. what syntax it is using? 2014-09-18T23:49:04Z nell joined #lisp 2014-09-18T23:52:19Z Vivitron` joined #lisp 2014-09-18T23:54:17Z stepnem quit (Ping timeout: 260 seconds) 2014-09-18T23:59:16Z bambams_ quit (Ping timeout: 246 seconds) 2014-09-18T23:59:45Z faheem__1: never mind, just the defn of do-times. i didn't understand it at first. please ignore