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-!- gotcha_ [0e8bb973@gateway/web/freenode/ip.14.139.185.115] has left #lisp 03:06:01 -!- zimri-lim [~quassel@12.250.157.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:06:46 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-139-5.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:11:38 kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 03:14:49 -!- percopal [~percopal@63.65.76.38] has quit [Quit: percopal] 03:16:05 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 03:16:45 zimri-lim [~quassel@12.250.157.102] has joined #lisp 03:17:29 -!- nop0x07bc [~pon1980@h107n8-aepv-d7.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:17:39 andreh [~andreh@201.22.143.10.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 03:20:22 p_nathan [~Adium@c-24-18-244-51.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:36 Petit_Dejeuner_ [~saefa@c-174-48-40-89.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:21:02 dmiles [~dmiles@c-50-137-36-57.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:21:25 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 03:22:20 wildermuthn [a693633f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.166.147.99.63] has joined #lisp 03:22:23 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-50-137-36-57.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:22:56 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-84-44-209-46.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:23:02 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 03:24:01 -!- Petit_Dejeuner [~saefa@c-174-48-40-89.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:25:01 -!- tkd [~tomek@ogbunabali.wa.ht] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:25:16 I have defined a symbol and a function in a package. But when I run load that package and try to run that function from another package, the function acts as if that symbol is NIL. 03:26:34 Probably a simple answer to this... but I can't figure it out. When I switch the REPL to use the package, all works fine. 03:26:43 paste? 03:28:44 https://gist.github.com/wildermuthn/9478966 03:28:45 pillton [~user@dsl-58-7-43-131.wa.westnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:28:49 That's the function defined in the package. 03:28:58 It's called by Hunchentoot. 03:29:12 As long as the REPL is in that package, the function works fine. 03:29:38 If I'm in another package, when that function is called, it returns a nil value as if it can't find the *user-permissions* hash. 03:29:41 When you use intern without a package like that, it interns the symbol in *package*, which in this case is your REPL's package. 03:29:58 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:30:09 I do have (in-package :cl-cms) at the top of a long file... 03:30:16 So for example, say *user-permissions* is full of symbols from the foo: package, and you're in the bar: package. Then it interns, say, "RUN" as "BAR:RUN" which isn't the same as "FOO:RUN". 03:31:02 The solution (without me looking too deep) is to specify a package to intern symbols in. (Also, use find-symbol instead.) 03:31:33 So instead of (intern (string-upcase verb)) you'll have (find-symbol (string-upcase verb) some-package) 03:31:46 Hmm... the full file is here.. https://github.com/wildermuthn/cl-cms/blob/master/cl-cms.lisp. 03:32:07 shouldn't be relevant 03:33:51 ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@88.231.35.97] has joined #lisp 03:33:52 ok so the problem isn't with the symbol *user-permissions* not being found, it is with the symbols within that hash? 03:35:48 -!- gluegadget [sid22336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nvvnbkvapmdyzvao] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:35:59 gluegadget [sid22336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fbmrvxyeikfjnrqk] has joined #lisp 03:36:29 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:36:30 Bike_ [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 03:36:39 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 03:36:46 wildermuthn: sorry, connection problems. yes, the problem isn't the name of the hash. 03:36:53 e 03:37:07 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 03:37:09 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 03:37:53 but specifically because I use intern... when intern is called via hunchentoot's request... intern uses the current package the REPL is in, rather than the package that the function is defined within? 03:38:16 yes. 03:38:21 *package* is dynamic, see. 03:38:35 that's why this can be solved if you just specify where the symbols should be interned. 03:38:51 (but again, you really should use find-symbol) 03:39:15 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:39:37 aluuu [~aluuu@77.242.110.178] has joined #lisp 03:41:05 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-108-252-240-84.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:41:49 -!- cantstanya [~hello@unaffiliated/cantstanya] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:42:16 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:42:49 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:42:49 -!- zimri-lim [~quassel@12.250.157.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:42:50 Find-symbol did the trick. Thanks a lot Bike. 03:43:02 cantstanya [~hello@unaffiliated/cantstanya] has joined #lisp 03:43:08 I was using intern just to convert a string to a symbol... 03:43:22 -!- kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:43:24 You specified the package for find-symbol, right? 03:43:37 I did 03:43:45 ok, cool. 03:44:07 you should use find-symbol because intern will permanently create a symbol, and for this web application that could lead to DoS, even! 03:44:42 This web app is my attempt to learn lisp! ;) 03:44:52 nop0x07bc [~pon1980@h107n8-aepv-d7.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #lisp 03:46:42 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:47:10 kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 03:48:22 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 03:48:52 -!- wildermuthn [a693633f@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.166.147.99.63] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 03:50:50 Given a symbol that is lexically binded; is there something like (setf (symbol-value ...)) that will let me change it's value in the lexical scope? 03:52:07 nope. 03:52:21 the value might not even be associated with the symbol in the runtime code. 03:52:43 Hmm. 03:52:50 Use eval? 03:53:28 no, eval doesn't know the local lexical environment. 03:53:39 Meh. 03:53:46 in short, the local lexical environment is inaccessible and is quite likely to not exist at runtime. 03:54:13 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-24-60-1-249.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:54:19 Thanks. 03:54:26 Annoying though. 03:54:58 abunchofdollarsi: What are you trying to do? 03:55:18 If you find that annoying, you are probably doing something else wrong 03:55:23 Possibly. 03:55:33 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:55:39 Explain the actual thing you're doing, and I'm sure we can suggest a better way 03:55:57 At a high level I am doing pattern matching; at a lower level I want to introduce bindings for some of the elements that the user is matching on. 03:56:30 I'd like to match ("if" test then else) and introduce bindings for then, then and else. 03:56:55 Can you do the bindings at macroexpand time? 03:57:14 Yes; that's what I'm currently doing, but I need to set the values at runtime. 03:57:21 s/set/change 03:57:33 mhd [~mhd@cpe-76-170-71-237.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:57:38 abunchofdollarsi: So you have lisp code that uses 'then' and 'else'? Is it avoided if there's no if pattern to match? 03:58:42 abunchofdollarsi: DO you have a function that should be able to alter the values of a binding whose name is decided at macroepand time? 03:58:58 If the pattern fails to match it goes to the next one and if that one succeeds it would introduce that set of bindings. 'then' and 'else' are because I'm matching parsed C code. 03:59:24 abunchofdollarsi: so can you just do like (let ((then (third pattern)) (else (fourth pattern))) ...)? 03:59:31 loke, that's what I'm struggling with because I have the name of the variable, but I didn't realize that symbol-value doesn't affect lexical binding. 03:59:49 abunchofdollarsi: You need to caputre the binding in a closure then 04:00:11 -!- andreh [~andreh@201.22.143.10.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 04:00:52 One way of doing it is to have your macro expand to something like (let ((THE-NAME ...)) (labels ((set-the-magic-value () (setq THE-NAME ...))) THE_BODY)) 04:02:26 Bike, I think you're right, I need a second though. 04:05:40 -!- victor_lowther_ [sid17606@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ccxyxlhdnktucvey] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:06:00 Sgeo_ [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:06:01 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:06:25 -!- cjwelborn [cjwelborn@gateway/shell/bnc4free/x-aaolzwdkbvpfqmuj] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:06:51 victor_lowther_ [sid17606@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ydotqahsxpwqqvdn] has joined #lisp 04:07:13 -!- Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:07:40 cjwelborn [cjwelborn@gateway/shell/bnc4free/x-hrluswjevtlopniq] has joined #lisp 04:08:23 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:08:48 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Quit: going to sleep] 04:09:33 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 04:10:24 Bike, loke thanks was able to resolve it. 04:10:30 cool 04:12:33 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:13:35 -!- mhd [~mhd@cpe-76-170-71-237.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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08:55:57 frkout [~frkout@101.110.31.250] has joined #lisp 08:59:34 alpha- [~silver@unaffiliated/alpha--] has joined #lisp 09:02:05 -!- bicyclette [~deglingo@ABordeaux-652-1-7-108.w90-16.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:02:33 -!- _8680_ [~8680@2002:4404:712c:0:2cf5:8a4c:b6bc:24a0] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:03:48 _8680_ [~8680@2002:4404:712c:0:d998:76a0:cb4d:27a4] has joined #lisp 09:13:06 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5058:f510:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 09:17:34 -!- nop0x07bc [~pon1980@h107n8-aepv-d7.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:19:32 pierre1_ [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has joined #lisp 09:27:39 davazp [~user@177.Red-83-63-237.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:31:48 -!- DalekBaldwin [~user@ip68-231-209-84.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:32:38 dilated_dinosaur [~ivan@46-65-53-22.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:32:44 nffff [~nffff@c-50-183-123-25.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:32:58 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 09:36:35 matko [~matko@ip82-139-125-221.lijbrandt.net] has joined #lisp 09:42:57 How can I be sure that I'm always compiling (through both quicklisp/asdf and slime-compile-file etc.) with the *most* debug information I can get from a particular lisp implementation? 09:43:48 (proclaim '(optimize (saftey 3) (speed 0) (debug 3))) ? 09:44:06 for SBCL you can edit a global policy 09:44:20 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 09:46:04 aha, sbcl:restrict-compile-policy. thanks. 09:46:46 nop0x07bc [~pon1980@h107n8-aepv-d7.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #lisp 09:47:06 -!- nug700 [~nug700@71-37-219-192.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 09:47:39 ah, that's the one ;-) 09:48:45 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:49:04 yzzyx``: don't forget to remove all fasls on your computer 09:49:21 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.37.114] has left #lisp 09:49:24 -!- ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:49:37 at least all of the fasls related to the code you want recompiled with high debug settings 09:51:06 good point. and can i perhaps query a compiled function's debug proclaimation from the repl, to be double-sure I got it right? 09:51:26 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 09:54:38 -!- harish [~harish@175.156.125.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:56:33 -!- Ayey_ [~rune1@195.254.169.70] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:57:19 But, with all these, it seems there is still not a way to jump to the source line of a form in the backtrace, am I expecting too much? 09:59:35 oh, no, slime-edit-definition appears to work. never mind. 09:59:37 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:59:46 thanks all 10:00:30 is there some way to create hash in common lisp like one would in perl or javascript? my $thing = {1 => 2, 3 => 4}; or so 10:00:50 the way I see in a book does not look usable 10:01:48 alpha-: in practice, there's apparently little need for literal hashtables, and one can easily write a macro or function to abstract gethash and such in a way they prefer 10:02:02 I see 10:02:26 alpha-: and when you really need an extra syntax, reader macros make it possible 10:02:40 just not included in the standard, so *everyone* will have a different one ;) 10:02:47 makes for a mess when cooperating 10:06:41 How might I get slime to try and go to the source-line of a form in the backtrace? 10:06:43 yzzyx``: what debug level did you choose? 10:07:01 prxq: 3 for now, because i thought that was the highest, at least officially 10:07:02 yzzyx``: that should work like that. 10:07:42 yzzyx``: you are not on arch linux, perchance? 10:07:55 But really, I want to be able to find the form that is causing me grief in the source code, assuming i didn't ruin it with silly macros. no, probably worse, windows... 10:08:28 yzzyx``: try hitting v 10:09:15 zickzackv: aha! thanks! that's exactly what I wanted :) 10:09:36 heh 10:09:52 prxq: yes, sorry, extreme noob questions at this stage 10:10:22 i should probably have pointed out upfront i have no idea what i'm doing... 10:10:28 yzzyx``: no problem :-) 10:10:35 yzzyx``: the sldb menu is quit educating. 10:11:13 yzzyx``: I have (sb-ext:restrict-compiler-policy 'debug 2) in my sbclrc. I was once told that this strikes the best balance between performance and debugging info 10:13:15 prxq: I compile everything with (debug 3) (speed 0) (safety 3) 10:13:45 prxq, hmm, okay, I will definitely have a play with the different values then. Thanks. 10:13:48 loke: I usually do number crunching, so I need some modicum of speed. 10:13:57 I have only once noticed any performance problem with that, and that was for a simplex noise algorithm 10:14:28 ok, interesting. In the past setting (speed 3) actually made a difference 10:15:08 prxq: I'm not saying it doesn't. I'm just saying that _I_ don't notice it. Most of the stuff I do is web stuff anyway 10:15:16 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 10:15:22 Or various internal tools that are IO bound 10:15:55 I could probably run my stuff on a 10x slower CPU and I still wouldn't notice :-) 10:16:10 *prxq* would 10:16:35 10x would be pretty bad, actually 10:16:57 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:17:06 In most of my programs I wouldn't notice 10:19:17 loke: what kind of volume of traffic do you serve up? 10:20:06 Beetny_ [~Beetny@ppp118-208-49-205.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:20:07 Very low. Internal corporate sites 10:20:20 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@147.30.12.25] has joined #lisp 10:20:21 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@147.30.12.25] has quit [Changing host] 10:20:21 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:20:33 loke, ah, fair enough. I'm curious as to how hunchentoot operates under heavy load. 10:23:47 ehu [~ehu@109.35.20.19] has joined #lisp 10:25:29 vaporatorius [~vaporator@13.Red-83-37-68.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:29:37 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@176.62.101.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:31:04 jaimef: ?? 10:31:21 -!- oofya [~user@24.20.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:32:08 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: .] 10:32:46 -!- da4c30ff__ [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:34:33 Joreji [~thomas@155-056.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 10:37:05 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 10:37:12 -!- scottj [~scott@206.212.250.58] has left #lisp 10:37:33 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 10:38:28 I have no idea. I haven't used it for high load 10:40:21 loke: fair enough 10:41:26 http://paste.lisp.org/display/141587 - sldb newbie question. How do I work out which invokation of baz in bar has invoked a restart from within slime? i only seem to be able to be taken to toplevel defuns. 10:48:07 -!- DrForr_ [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has left #lisp 10:53:28 Jayk97 [~quassel@50.13.169.64] has joined #lisp 10:53:37 -!- pierre1_ [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:53:44 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 10:55:47 zacharias_ [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 10:56:32 -!- KCL [~quassel@50.13.169.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:57:45 przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has joined #lisp 10:57:53 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has quit [Client Quit] 10:58:02 przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has joined #lisp 10:59:05 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:00:31 yzzyx``: That's because the functions haven't been compiled with debugging 11:00:51 I always stuff a (declaim (optimize (speed 0) (debug 3) (safety 3))) 11:00:58 in the beginning of the source files 11:04:02 hmm, okay, let me try again. I've been experimenting on a remote machine running ccl, and it worked, but perhaps it has different declaim initialization parameters. 11:04:13 yzzyx``: Yes, possibly. 11:04:29 still, the fact i'm getting usable source navigation *somewhere* is very encouraging :) 11:04:38 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:07:39 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 11:07:50 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-210-247.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:08:39 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:10:07 loke: Perfect! Thanks! 11:10:43 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 11:13:16 -!- karswell` [~user@84.93.180.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:13:16 yzzyx``: iirc, hunchentoot works well under high load, but needs to be behind a proxy. That's what I get from what I've read and heard on the matter. 11:13:56 prxq: by 'behind a proxy', you mean, using something like nginx to serve up the static content, or another issue? 11:14:44 that the request arives first at apache, or lighttpd, etc. and they forward it to the hunchentoot server 11:14:48 -!- _8680_ [~8680@2002:4404:712c:0:d998:76a0:cb4d:27a4] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:15:15 so the front server takes care of things like slow clients, etc, etc, etc. 11:17:01 prxq: ah, right, gotcha, so for request regulation, yes, that seems quite okay. I'm more interested in throughput than latency anyhow. 11:17:03 Karl_Dscc [~localhost@p578FCF3A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:18:16 The fact I could implement my own task-master seems quite fun, too. 11:18:22 _8680_ [~8680@2002:4404:712c:0:845a:a26d:7ead:4111] has joined #lisp 11:18:49 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:22:40 AGinsberg [~AG@37.220.10.204] has joined #lisp 11:23:41 ivan4th [~user@smtp.igrade.ru] has joined #lisp 11:25:15 dandersen [~user@unaffiliated/dandersen] has joined #lisp 11:26:29 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 11:28:14 anthracite [~anthracit@pdpc/supporter/active/anthracite] has joined #lisp 11:29:56 zygentoma [~kvirc@dslb-092-077-082-216.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:31:51 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:32:30 -!- jimmyy [~jimmyy@124.150.50.136] has quit [] 11:35:09 loz [~maxvel@188.225.33.138] has joined #lisp 11:37:12 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 11:41:39 -!- Beetny_ [~Beetny@ppp118-208-49-205.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:42:11 -!- zacharias_ is now known as zacharias 11:42:14 ggole [~ggole@124-148-226-29.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 11:43:10 pavelpenev [~quassel@92.247.23.10] has joined #lisp 11:46:30 aftershave [~textual@h-243-81.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 11:47:43 Poenikatu [~kvirc@host-89-240-251-24.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 11:47:43 -!- Poenikatu [~kvirc@host-89-240-251-24.as13285.net] has quit [Changing host] 11:47:43 Poenikatu [~kvirc@pdpc/supporter/bronze/poenikatu] has joined #lisp 11:49:10 -!- ThePhoeron [~thephoero@CPE68b6fcc5ca13-CM68b6fcc5ca10.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:49:37 -!- Karl_Dscc [~localhost@p578FCF3A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:51:32 ThePhoeron [~thephoero@CPE68b6fcc5ca13-CM68b6fcc5ca10.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 11:52:41 Anyone here used Lispworks CL? 11:55:12 -!- froggey [~froggey@cpc1-rdng22-2-0-cust861.15-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:57:27 przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has joined #lisp 12:01:10 -!- aluuu [~aluuu@77.242.110.178] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:02:45 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:03:37 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:05:16 urbanek [~urbanek@2001:67c:15a0:8000:50d9:d263:d233:17f4] has joined #lisp 12:05:17 -!- fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:07:55 fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 12:12:29 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:12:33 Poenikatu: I use it sometimes. 12:13:34 Xach: Hm. It's pretty pricy. Currently I have an evaluation license for the Enterprise Edition. The documentation is comprehenisve and good. 12:14:04 Xach: Is it possible to use quicklisp with it? 12:14:34 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:14:49 Sure. 12:15:03 You can use Quicklisp with nearly any Common Lisp. 12:15:13 knob [~knob@76.76.202.245] has joined #lisp 12:15:16 Xach: Good news. I intend loading the iterate package. 12:15:28 Of the maintained CL systems, I think only gcl is not supported by Quicklisp. 12:16:05 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:17:59 Xach: Clearly, you are a professional Lisper. Good. 12:18:58 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 12:19:03 Xach: When I think of all those years when I wrote COBOL programs for various firms. Not entirely wasted, but I'm sure I'd have enjoyed them more if I were using CL. 12:20:30 -!- urbanek [~urbanek@2001:67c:15a0:8000:50d9:d263:d233:17f4] has left #lisp 12:21:01 urbanek [~urbanek@2001:67c:15a0:8000:50d9:d263:d233:17f4] has joined #lisp 12:22:54 -!- yacks [~py@122.172.187.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:24:26 -!- urbanek is now known as c4h 12:25:13 LiamH [~none@129-2-129-146.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 12:25:25 -!- vaporatorius is now known as Vaporatorius 12:25:57 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@176.62.101.37] has joined #lisp 12:26:00 -!- c4h [~urbanek@2001:67c:15a0:8000:50d9:d263:d233:17f4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:27:20 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 12:28:28 i am a turbo pro lisper 12:29:07 przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has joined #lisp 12:29:09 froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has joined #lisp 12:30:35 jordonbiondo [~user@50-77-199-17-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 12:31:40 He has nitrogen injection. 12:32:14 -!- matko [~matko@ip82-139-125-221.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:32:25 przl_ [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has joined #lisp 12:33:26 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:33:47 c4h [~urbanek@2001:67c:15a0:8000:50d9:d263:d233:17f4] has joined #lisp 12:34:58 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:39:02 w37 [~user@31.221.13.71] has joined #lisp 12:39:29 -!- atgreen [~green@207.112.112.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:39:50 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 12:40:05 -!- Sgeo_ [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:40:07 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:44:06 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 12:47:48 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:51:13 jewel [~jewel@105-236-210-247.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:51:55 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-5-14.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 12:55:07 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 12:55:36 qiemem [uid14911@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ssbogzvdihdfcdvm] has joined #lisp 12:57:42 -!- karupanerura is now known as zz_karupanerura 12:58:27 Zhivago: is he super sonic? 12:58:35 Xach: are you a modern man? 12:58:58 -!- nffff [~nffff@c-50-183-123-25.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:59:50 optikalmouse: i'm heavenly blessed and worldly wise 13:00:06 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 13:01:49 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.16.1] has joined #lisp 13:03:05 he was born with a gift of laughter and a sense that the world is mad 13:03:07 Karl_Dscc [~localhost@p578FCF3A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:06:42 thepreacher [~thepreach@118.35.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 13:07:38 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5058:f510:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:07:48 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@gateway/tor-sasl/adlai] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:09:33 Adlai [~Adlai@gateway/tor-sasl/adlai] has joined #lisp 13:10:02 -!- hugodunc` [~user@69.157.171.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:11:48 hmm. i can set a breakpoint easily enough with (break), but when i sldb-step, it steps out of the debugger and continues running the code, is there a way to remain stepping until i explicitly ask to resume? 13:12:25 yzzyx``: I've never had luck with my favorite lisps at using a stepper. 13:12:44 I wish the situation were better, but I've gotten used to it just not working. 13:13:08 Xach: awww, well, I can at least not spend the day trying to make it work. 13:13:29 Definitely a shame though. 13:13:37 i use sbcl, and it's possible that sbcl is just the worst at it 13:13:52 I'm in sbcl at the moment, though I will try ccl now, just in case. 13:13:52 if anyone does have a day to be systematic about the way in which it doesn't work, that would increase the chance of improvement 13:14:02 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r179-25-5-14.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:14:29 minimal examples of reproduction under various debug compilation qualities 13:14:32 Krystof: I don't even have informed expectations about what a stepper does in CL. 13:14:47 *Xach* should try to find some old hand with a favorite stepper demo from a lisp of yore 13:16:40 I don't have particularly informed ideas either, but I think I'd like it to step from user's source form to source form in execution order 13:16:51 and not stop stepping completely when you hit (break "foo") 13:17:21 ccl just complains that SWANK-BACKEND:ACTIVATE-STEPPING is not implemented, sbcl doesn't appear to step, but i don't get the error. 13:18:18 -!- pranavrc_ [~pranavrc@122.164.110.247] has quit [] 13:18:40 cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 13:18:54 I can do minimal stepping at the bare repl which more-or-less agrees with my expectations 13:19:10 (declaim (optimize debug)) (defun foo (x) (1+ (bar x))) (defun bar (x) (* x 2)) 13:19:23 then (step (foo 3)) and type "step" at the debugger prompt each time 13:21:00 Krystof: yes, that works quite well, good enough for debugging a small function. 13:21:17 what I don't know or understand are the boundaries between that and the not-working 13:21:51 for example, I observe that with (optimize (debug 2)) single-stepping does not work, even on that minimal example 13:21:55 that surprises me a bit 13:22:41 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 13:23:19 -!- LiamH [~none@129-2-129-146.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:25:57 so (step (foo 5)) works just fine in both ccl and sbcl, which is nice. 13:26:30 -!- waa [~waa@189-31-254-246.ctame700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:28:11 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 13:34:38 jangle [~jimmy1984@50.241.129.73] has joined #lisp 13:35:46 -!- ustunozgur 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comfortably. Anywhere.] 15:48:08 -!- zarul [~zarul@ubuntu/member/zarul] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:48:17 -!- smull [~smull@port-212-202-120-50.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:49:10 zarul [~zarul@ubuntu/member/zarul] has joined #lisp 15:49:41 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:50:23 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-136-7.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:51:59 eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:17 shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-vfdzvojzqtkxnfjt] has joined #lisp 15:53:38 lispworks has a stepper, although I've not yet tried it 15:53:39 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:56:34 sveit [~sveit@xvm-four-234.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 15:58:39 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@176.62.101.37] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 16:00:32 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 16:01:25 smull [~smull@port-212-202-120-50.static.qsc.de] has joined 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[~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:20:54 -!- dandersen [~user@unaffiliated/dandersen] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:21:53 l_a_m [~l_a_m@94.124.130.19] has joined #lisp 16:23:18 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:24:36 percopal [~percopal@63.65.76.38] has joined #lisp 16:25:28 cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has joined #lisp 16:27:49 jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-24-7-197-106.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:27:52 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:30:04 zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has joined #lisp 16:34:23 -!- sandbender1512 [~none@CPEc8fb26470b29-CMc8fb26470b26.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:34:46 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:35:19 przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has joined #lisp 16:36:23 -!- Munksgaard_ is now known as Munksgaard 16:38:24 -!- ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:44:52 Joreji [~thomas@155-056.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 16:46:35 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:47:18 -!- __greg [~Greg@216-129-179-180.arvig.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:48:29 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-108-252-240-84.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:49:47 zimri-lim [~quassel@12.250.157.102] has joined #lisp 16:51:15 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 16:52:00 -!- sellout- [~Adium@71-218-6-206.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:53:22 -!- marsam is now known as marsbot 16:55:02 waa [~waa@189-31-254-246.ctame700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 16:58:35 LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:59:24 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 16:59:28 I find it somewhat ironic that compilers seem to be the programs that take the longest to build 16:59:37 (I'm upgrading ecl and sbcl right now) 17:01:07 -!- ehu [~ehu@109.35.20.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:01:16 well, they have to do all the work to help us remain lazy programmers. 17:01:22 jaimef: you obviously have never compiled chrome/firefox/openoffice 17:01:50 -!- Joreji [~thomas@155-056.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:02:14 okay I'll give you openoffice 17:02:28 gcc and firefox seem to have similar build times though 17:02:41 about 6-8 hours on my machine 17:03:03 wow 17:03:08 woah 17:03:42 that's a slow machine if it takes that much 17:03:43 Gooder [~user@221.198.103.104] has joined #lisp 17:03:44 This particular machine is slow though 17:04:08 single core 1.2GHz 17:04:12 Friend don't let friend build OOo on their Raspberry Pi with a 5400 disk. 17:04:42 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04:43 The whole system uses less than 25W at the outlet under peak load though 17:05:01 dumb slime question - is there some way to enable function completion inside a lisp file? it works on the repl 17:05:05 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 17:05:27 faheem: If you have compiled the file at some point, it should have completion 17:05:42 Note that if there is something currently running in the repl completion doesn't seem to work (for me at least) 17:05:49 faheem: C-c TAB 17:06:22 -!- cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:06:57 -!- marsbot is now known as marsam 17:07:21 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:07:50 -!- jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:08:25 -!- Gooder [~user@221.198.103.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:09:54 -!- w37 [~user@31.221.13.71] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:10:25 -!- jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-24-7-197-106.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:12:07 -!- eni [~eni@gob75-5-82-230-88-217.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:12:49 jasom: i thought i did 17:13:08 faheem: did you try C-c TAB? 17:13:21 jasom: trying that now 17:13:31 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 17:13:57 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-taavaiqdhjsmcglh] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:13:59 jasom: it works 17:14:02 H4ns: thanks 17:14:19 13:13 < jasom> faheem: did you try C-c TAB? 17:14:24 bugger 17:14:41 cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has joined #lisp 17:14:43 I use M-TAB but I don't know if I set that somewhere or it comes out-of-the-box that way 17:14:58 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-txduwpsiexuxhyus] has joined #lisp 17:15:23 jasom: ok 17:15:32 -!- add^_ [~user@m176-70-197-33.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15:46 jasom: that doesn't seem to work here 17:16:03 but i am terrible with emacs keys, so might be doing it worng 17:16:05 well easy enough to add keybindings to modes 17:16:09 *wrong* 17:16:20 jasom: i don't know how to. should learn 17:17:08 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.35.97] has joined #lisp 17:19:44 Codynyx [~cody@c-50-188-34-170.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:20:32 k-stz [~user@HSI-KBW-095-208-250-164.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 17:20:33 -!- atgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-cxbsklhphtmhxyzw] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:21:29 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:22:13 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.35.97] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:22:19 faheem: (global-set-key [C-tab] 'slime-complete-symbol) ; put this in your .emacs or .emacs.d/init.el 17:22:33 and then C-tab would autocomplete. 17:22:43 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 17:22:50 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 17:23:07 mathrick [~mathrick@94.126.2.74] has joined #lisp 17:24:07 paul0 [~paul0@187.112.64.24] has joined #lisp 17:24:09 you might want to check if C-tab is already bound to something so you don't clobber it, C-h k C-tab will tell you what it is currently set to, if anything. 17:24:13 yzzyx``: thanks. is that a good shortcut? 17:24:22 C-c tab is ok for, me really 17:24:45 if i want to list files in a directory, is there something better than list-directory/walk-directory in fad? 17:24:46 faheem: it's what I happen to use, there's no right or wrong way. M-tab is captured by most of my window managers, so I re-bound it to that. 17:24:55 yzzyx``: ok 17:25:39 faheem: i think the general emacs way is, you develop your own keybindings and scripts over the years and move them from machine to machine. 17:25:55 yzzyx``: right 17:26:44 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-164-66.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:26:45 normanrichards [~textual@71.20.68.56] has joined #lisp 17:27:29 faheem: (uiop:directory-files) 17:27:34 is it reasonable to use (ql:quickload "xxx") in a script when trying to load packages? 17:27:46 jasom: ok. that is better? 17:28:16 uiop is what is used by asdf, so it gets a lot of exercise. If it's in UIOP, then that's what I use 17:28:24 jasom: ok 17:28:26 kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 17:28:37 and putting (ql:quickload "xxx") in the script won't work in a lot of cases unless you put it also inside an eval-when 17:30:04 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:30:25 jasom: i'm doing: 17:30:29 (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute) (ql:quickload :cl-fad) (ql:quickload :uiop) (setf *read-default-float-format* 'double-float)) 17:30:33 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:30:50 thepreacher [~thepreach@118.35.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:52 -!- thepreacher [~thepreach@118.35.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 17:31:07 i'm not sure whether the (cl:quickload "") or (cl:quickload :) form is preferable 17:31:16 these variants are confusing 17:31:18 so yes, that's reasonable for testing. You probably want to just use asdf though 17:31:26 Joreji [~thomas@178-203.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:31:34 i.e. put your code in an asdf package and quickload that 17:31:56 jasom: ah, ok. this is just a trivial script for now. 17:31:57 : and "" are equivalent, it takes a string designator 17:32:03 clhs string-designator 17:32:03 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for string-designator. 17:32:04 jasom: ok 17:32:19 : is easier then 17:32:30 jasom: what happens if i perversely created a FOO.asd and foo.asd? 17:32:41 -!- wgreenhouse [~wgreenhou@fsf/member/wgreenhouse] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 17:32:49 if i put it in a asdf package, then i have to write metainformation and stuff 17:33:22 i would rightly get what i deserve, i suspect. :) 17:33:25 yzzyx``: you are now non-portable; it may still work though 17:33:36 yes, it would be a silly thing to do. 17:33:39 yzzyx``: you can have a system with a lower-case name if you like 17:33:42 :|foo| 17:33:45 or "foo" 17:33:51 oh good point. 17:34:08 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:34:29 but it is obvious that having two files whose names differ only in case is non-portable, since lisp runs on e.g. windows 17:35:00 ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@88.231.35.97] has joined #lisp 17:35:21 yes, i was being facetious, really. 17:35:28 wgreenhouse [~wgreenhou@fsf/member/wgreenhouse] has joined #lisp 17:35:45 faheem: clhs 1.4.1.5 17:35:54 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/01_dae.htm 17:36:46 RazLaptop [~Intertric@c-65-34-239-133.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:11 Why is this invalid? (loop for i in '(+ - / *) collect (mapcar #'i (range 1 100) (range 1 100))) 17:38:00 RazLaptop: because that is the same as (loop for i in '(+ - / *) collect (mapcar (function i) (range 1 100) (range 1 100))) 17:38:11 so if you don't have a function named i, that's not going to work 17:38:39 jasom, oh, so how do I bind the i as a function in the function list I made? 17:38:55 (symbol-function i) will work, I think 17:39:01 well the good news is that mapcar takes a function designator, so if you just change it to (mapcar i ...) you're done 17:39:17 Nice! Thanks! 17:39:30 see the link I just sent to faheem for descriptions of designators 17:39:45 -!- ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@88.231.35.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:39:46 -!- arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-mqodadmrtiwhyyoj] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:39:58 jasom, repaste? I just joined the chat a few seconds ago 17:40:04 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/01_dae.htm 17:40:26 function designator n. a designator for a function; that is, an object that denotes a function and that is one of: a symbol (denoting the function named by that symbol in the global environment), or a function (denoting itself). The consequences are undefined if a symbol is used as a function designator but it does not have a global definition as a function, or it has a global definition as a macro or a special form. See also extended function des 17:40:37 jasom: thanks 17:41:28 -!- QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Iceape 2.7.12/20130119143918]] 17:41:29 faheem: np 17:42:24 -!- marsam is now known as marsbot 17:42:46 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:43:50 sellout- [~Adium@173-164-61-149-colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:52 -!- zimri-lim [~quassel@12.250.157.102] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:44:19 hmm, what should i return from a hunchentoot handler if i just want to hang the request (I would like to later post to the stream to implement a simple comet style server) 17:44:35 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:45:15 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 17:45:27 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:45:41 yzzyx``: I haven't found a good way other than one thread per pending request; if you find one, let me know. That's the reason I started using mongrel2. 17:46:53 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:47:01 jasom: aha, thanks. yeah, since i'm here in hunchentoot for now, I will keep looking at the hunchentoot code (quite instructive for a beginner anyway). mongrel2 sounds like something I should definitely look at though. 17:47:04 google found an e-mail from Hans in 2009 saying that hunchentoot doesn't support it any other way. I don't know if it's changed in the interim 17:47:25 yzzyx``: I'm the maintainer of mongrel2 now, so look elsewhere for unbiased opinions of it :) 17:47:36 caveat emptor :) 17:49:44 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 17:50:52 jasom: it has not changed. 17:52:25 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.50.12] has joined #lisp 17:55:21 -!- jaimef [jaimef@166.84.6.60] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:57:23 H4ns: :( 17:57:32 macin [~root@59.91.10.125] has joined #lisp 17:57:46 I suppose to investigate adding this support, i would want to look in start-output 17:58:05 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:58:06 slyrus [~chatzilla@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:08 thread/request is good for what hunchentoot does 17:58:32 jaimef [jaimef@166.84.6.60] has joined #lisp 17:59:11 fe[nl]ix: it may be enough. in the real world i'd use lightstreamer or cometd anyway. nothing stopping hunchentoot spin up a thread that talks to those using drakma 17:59:39 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-164-66.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:59:48 fridim__ [~fridim@65.93.77.146] has joined #lisp 18:00:50 -!- macin [~root@59.91.10.125] has left #lisp 18:04:13 -!- optikalmouse [~omouse@69-165-245-60.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:06:53 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 18:08:00 what is the function to give the type of an object? i forget, like pythons type. 18:09:05 <|3b|> clhs type-of 18:09:05 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_tp_of.htm 18:11:24 |3b|: thanks 18:11:40 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@p5DDC79F5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 18:12:59 -!- Joreji [~thomas@178-203.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:15:19 __greg [~Greg@216-129-179-180.arvig.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:43 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.50.12] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:16:18 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 18:16:35 faheem: sometimes you want the class of an object instead: class-of Try and compare: (values (class-of 42) (type-of 42)) 18:17:14 or (class-name (class-of 42)) 18:17:17 for example you cannot specialize a generic function on an arbitrary type 18:17:18 yes, notable, if you're trying to specialize a method 18:17:36 ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@88.231.50.12] has joined #lisp 18:17:37 -!- dilated_dinosaur [~ivan@46-65-53-22.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:17:48 -!- normanrichards [~textual@71.20.68.56] has quit [] 18:18:33 -!- ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@88.231.50.12] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:18:49 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:19:06 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 18:20:31 -!- __greg [~Greg@216-129-179-180.arvig.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:22:03 -!- bocaneri [~bocaneri_@about/linux/staff/sauvin] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:22:32 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:22:34 hpd: i'll try that, thanks 18:22:43 -!- MoALTz [~no@user-46-113-90-183.play-internet.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:22:43 Twipply [~Twipply3@cpc17-mapp10-2-0-cust179.12-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:13 MoALTz [~no@user-46-113-90-183.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 18:23:31 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-qdujfyovztbcdkpw] has joined #lisp 18:24:02 which is more useful in general? class-of seems a bit more informative 18:24:15 hpd is just a three letter word? 18:25:09 faheem: In general I use class-of and typep 18:25:20 faheem: there are cases that type-of is informative though 18:25:29 upgraded-array-element-type can be useful too 18:25:48 karswell` [~user@87.112.118.233] has joined #lisp 18:25:52 jasom: i'll try them all - if i can remember tehm 18:26:19 (upgraded-array-element-type (type-of 3)) 18:26:44 hi 18:27:09 -!- karswell [~user@87.112.118.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:27:24 (typep 3 'integer) => T 18:27:25 MoALTz_ [~no@user-46-113-90-183.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 18:28:32 3 is of an infinite number of types: (typep 3 '(member one two 3)) (typep 3 '(integer 0 4)) (typep 3 'fixnum) etc. 18:28:37 (typep '(1 2) 'cons) -> T 18:28:49 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.50.12] has joined #lisp 18:29:23 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:29:23 And my favorite: (typep () 'cons) => NIL 18:30:12 (typep () 'boolean) -> t 18:30:45 (typep () 'symbol) => T 18:30:59 -!- MoALTz [~no@user-46-113-90-183.play-internet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:31:00 I have a CAR and a CDR but I'm a symbol, not a cons. 18:31:52 (typep () 'nil) => NIL 18:32:07 You can extend all the functions to the full domain, returning bottom or some other meaningful value. 18:32:13 That's null, though 18:32:18 ggole: I know 18:32:23 This is quite practical, and often done in maths. 18:32:33 ggole: but it's a common error 18:32:58 -!- bjz_ [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:33:09 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:33:32 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:17 -!- jaimef [jaimef@166.84.6.60] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:36:21 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.50.12] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:36:29 __greg [~Greg@216-129-179-180.arvig.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:47 -!- cory786 is now known as ckoch786 18:36:57 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 18:37:20 -!- waa [~waa@189-31-254-246.ctame700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:37:47 Caroline28 [~Caroline2@95.141.20.196] has joined #lisp 18:39:13 -!- Caroline28 [~Caroline2@95.141.20.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:42:02 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 18:44:40 Joreji [~thomas@178-203.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 18:46:00 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:49:59 -!- Joreji [~thomas@178-203.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:50:16 is it correct usage to be messing around in my .asd and source files, then (ql:quickload) it again from slime? 18:50:32 (assuming i already quickloaded it earlier) 18:51:56 Gooder [~user@221.198.103.104] has joined #lisp 18:52:27 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-210-247.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 18:52:57 jewel [~jewel@105-236-210-247.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:55:43 yzzyx``: I would think so. Periodically you'll want to think about the order of macro-definition and -usage and package state. 18:55:57 yzzyx``, yes, it is 18:56:18 to add new .asd files, though, you may need to (asdf:initialize-source-registry) 18:56:42 -!- ckoch786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:57:09 -!- Gooder [~user@221.198.103.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:57:59 MoALTz__ [~no@user-46-113-90-183.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 18:58:19 what might clobber asdf::*source-registry*? 18:59:01 uh? 18:59:06 this will 18:59:12 oh, wait, i see, asdf assumes it knows the state of the world 18:59:25 yes 18:59:29 so it needs a nudge to re-scan for new systems. got it. 19:00:15 I believe there's a restart already to do it when it can't find a system. 19:00:16 Vivitron [~Vivitron@172.56.13.246] has joined #lisp 19:00:22 Natch_j [~Natch@85.225.207.88] has joined #lisp 19:01:03 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@user-46-113-90-183.play-internet.pl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:02:10 -!- davazp [~user@177.Red-83-63-237.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:03:26 -!- Natch [~Natch@c-58cfe155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:03:35 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 19:04:32 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-002-090.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:38 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:05:02 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 19:05:53 sveton [~sveton@195.39.253.23] has joined #lisp 19:06:42 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 19:09:20 -!- sveton [~sveton@195.39.253.23] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:10:18 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 19:10:35 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 19:13:01 -!- zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:15:50 otomia [~otomia@195.78.109.63] has joined #lisp 19:16:25 -!- SHODAN [~shozan@fsf/member/shodan] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:16:58 SHODAN [~shozan@fsf/member/shodan] has joined #lisp 19:20:47 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-24-109.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:20:47 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@user-46-113-90-183.play-internet.pl] has quit [Quit: brb] 19:21:01 MoALTz [~no@user-46-113-90-183.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:22:01 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-qdujfyovztbcdkpw] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:22:45 MoALTz_ [~no@user-46-113-90-183.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:23:34 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@172.56.13.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:24:02 -!- otomia [~otomia@195.78.109.63] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:24:06 -!- WeirdEnthusiast [Elite6963@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-intdduhbacrgpzep] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:24:09 yzzyx``: IIRC quickload won't recompile changed systems, but asdf:load-system will 19:24:29 but my memory might be wrong 19:25:05 WeirdEnthusiast [Elite6963@gateway/shell/elitebnc/x-pyrnjkmcsnvjhpsv] has joined #lisp 19:25:18 You can pass :force t to asdf:load-system, for which there isn't a quickload counterpart, I believe 19:25:58 alexshendi [~alexshend@HSI-KBW-082-212-030-242.hsi.kabelbw.de] has joined #lisp 19:26:36 -!- MoALTz [~no@user-46-113-90-183.play-internet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:26:40 -!- alexshendi [~alexshend@HSI-KBW-082-212-030-242.hsi.kabelbw.de] has left #lisp 19:27:45 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@user-46-113-90-183.play-internet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:28:32 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:29:02 Gooder [~user@60.24.98.64] has joined #lisp 19:29:36 MoALTz [~no@user-46-113-90-183.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:29:59 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:30:03 hmm, okay, thanks all 19:30:23 if i want to loop over lines in a multiline string, can i use read-line? 19:30:35 Yes. 19:30:42 faheem: with-input-from-string will help 19:30:46 (with-input-from-string (in multi-line-string) (read-line in)) 19:30:51 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 19:31:14 H4ns: ok. thanks. so read-line is not optimal? 19:32:05 split-sequence might be more efficient. Benchmarks are required to be sure. 19:32:13 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 19:32:25 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:32:48 -!- sirdancealot [~koo5@194.228.11.172] has quit [Quit: Ragequit] 19:32:53 -!- cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:33:21 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 19:33:47 Notice that neither read-line nor split-sequence use displaced arrays to avoid copying lines: you might be able to write a more optimal function yourself. 19:33:54 -!- Gooder [~user@60.24.98.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:34:02 mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 19:34:06 normanrichards [~textual@adsl-67-64-66-5.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:08 pjb: ok 19:34:29 pjb: in a benchmark I did on sbcl, displaced arrays were slower than copying simple arrays 19:34:30 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:34:39 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 19:34:45 zajn [~zajn@airbears2-136-152-142-14.AirBears2.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 19:34:49 depends on the size of the lines and of the strings. And indeed, of the implementation. 19:35:37 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 19:35:38 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:36:02 IIRC I settled on a struct that contained a simple array and an offset. 19:36:43 It's a shameful implementation where you can be faster using a struct with an offset than using displaced arrays, IMO. 19:37:13 well it seemed that sbcl had specialized versions for simple arrays but not for displaced arrays without fill-pointers 19:37:23 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:37:33 hmm, so i'm experimenting with implementing comet using hunchentoot and blocking requests, which seems to be working- it seems that it'd doing the right thing and threads DO die if i drop the connection from the client, can I rely on this behaviour? 19:37:35 Was this for a multi-terabyte string or a single address? (: 19:37:45 it's* 19:37:46 -!- ggole [~ggole@124-148-226-29.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 19:37:49 splittist: all strings were less than 1MB 19:37:54 so copying overhead was minimal 19:37:57 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 19:39:14 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-91-224.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:40:07 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-002-090.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:40:12 copying 1MB would be on the order of 1/1000 or 1/3000 seconds. I'd expect it to be 6 orders of magnitude slower than using a displaced array. 19:40:29 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:41:07 hmm, i take that back, seems the threads are sticking around. 19:41:24 A displaced array is a structuer with a pointer and a length: less than a L1 cache line. 19:41:57 pjb: *making* the displaced array was fast, but then *using* it was slow 19:42:27 You asked about spliting lines, not about accessing them :-) 19:42:34 true 19:43:45 But again, it's a shameful implementation, one that has slow access to displaced arrays: it should cost only one indirection, and this should be in processor caches anyways, so it should make no difference at all when hitting L2 cache or memory. 19:44:05 Yes, it's unfortunate that the slowpath for arrays is so much slower than the fastpath in sbcl. 19:44:56 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-164-66.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:45:26 pjb: from what I remember of the disassembly, it was the difference between a single instruction and a function call 19:45:28 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:45:39 I didn't dig into the function call to see how much work it did 19:46:28 jasom: yes, that sounds ludicruous. 19:46:42 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 19:46:45 This was on sbcl around 1.0.55 19:46:51 I think it's still the same though 19:47:40 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.205.121] has joined #lisp 19:47:56 cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 19:48:28 The other funny thing I discovered was that the various with-input-from-byte-vector type libraries I found were all considerably slower than (with-input-from-string (s (map 'string #'code-char some-byte-vector)) for moderate length byte vectors 19:49:02 Though depending on the implementation I had to use something other than just CL:MAP (like pre-allocate the string and use map-into or a loop) 19:50:15 But that's more because implementations all have highly optimized with-input-from-string 19:50:28 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:53:37 -!- marsbot is now known as marsam 19:54:16 jasom: was fast-io? i will have to check it again if so, i'm not sure I tested how particularly fast input was 19:55:32 oGMo: I just checked my notes and did not try that one 19:55:38 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:55:45 BlackWab1 [~wabi@194.47.219.43] has joined #lisp 19:56:11 i haven't checked recently for output either actually and i probably should heh 19:56:53 oGMo: probably because I looked for things on cliki and fast-io doesn't seem to be represented there 19:57:59 jasom: doh, i always forget to add things 19:58:02 *oGMo* does so 19:58:18 oGMo: I will look into switching to that. Are you Ryan Pavlik? 19:59:08 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:59:51 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 20:00:36 -!- doomlord__ [~servitor@host86-184-9-184.range86-184.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:01:26 -!- eaumontab is now known as abeaumont_ 20:03:05 cpc26_ [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 20:04:18 -!- cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:04:57 jasom: yeah 20:05:29 i find oddly inconvenient bits now and then so let me know 20:06:31 pnpuff` [~f@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 20:09:47 MoALTz_ [~no@user-46-113-90-183.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:10:27 -!- pnpuff` [~f@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 20:12:45 -!- MoALTz [~no@user-46-113-90-183.play-internet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:13:52 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:14:25 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5058:f510:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:19:02 hmm. so, if a client connects to my request, and i block the request thread, then the client closes the socket, open-stream-p still returns T for both the flexi-stream and the underlying stream... 20:19:46 how am i supposed to manage this situation in hunchentoot? 20:20:07 -!- cpc26_ [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [] 20:20:27 cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 20:20:32 doomlord_ [~servitor@host86-184-9-184.range86-184.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:20:48 innertracks [~Thunderbi@ip-64-134-142-77.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:16 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:23:51 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:25:14 -!- normanrichards [~textual@adsl-67-64-66-5.dsl.austtx.swbell.net] has quit [] 20:25:35 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@user-46-113-90-183.play-internet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:25:58 how can i specify a timeout value for usocket:with-client-socket macro? 20:28:49 sz0 [~user@208.72.139.54] has joined #lisp 20:29:29 yzzyx``: I think *hunchentoot-stream* is what you want to check for open 20:29:44 jasom, thanks, let me try 20:30:24 but TCP close is unreliable 20:30:27 so you shouldn't rely on it 20:30:51 yeah, although shouldn't the kernel close after a timeout anyhow? 20:31:06 a long timeout 20:31:17 no actually not 20:31:38 if you drop the last packet of the 3 way handshake, it's not until you send a packet and get an RST 20:31:51 *jasom* hasn't looked at TCP in a while, but that's my recollection 20:32:29 atgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-pkvlcorvlmqgbqtf] has joined #lisp 20:32:44 francogrex [~user@4.105-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 20:33:06 It also depends on who initiates the close 20:33:44 -!- k-stz [~user@HSI-KBW-095-208-250-164.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:34:06 hm. nope. still getting T for the socket FD, which appears to be the same think i was getting through flexi-stream-stream on hunchentoot:raw-post-data 20:34:45 so, the end result is disconnects are stacking up as idle threads, not good. :/ 20:36:38 has anyone used gdb with ecl lisp? 20:38:03 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-210-247.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:38:33 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:38:46 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-budewwtqhnivcpsq] has joined #lisp 20:40:15 yzzyx``: according to usocket hte only way to tell is to try to read from the socket and see if it signals EOF 20:42:30 yzzyx``: it's an underlying limitation of BSD sockets that you can't tell if it's closed without reading or writing. 20:42:36 clintm [~clintm@001e52f0de2b.click-network.com] has joined #lisp 20:43:25 francogrex: never had to drop down to gdb. What have you to debug? 20:43:44 yzzyx``: for my long-poll I did something like send an empty response every 90 seconds or so. Then on the client-side resend if response is empty 20:44:17 so respond with a 204 20:45:04 jasom, hmm, yeah, okay, time to read up on usocket i think. 20:45:07 that allowed me to clean up closed connections 20:45:09 thanks for your help 20:45:29 Editing a macro in emacs with slime, is there a shortcut to re-evaluate the functions that use it? 20:45:38 *Fare* is looking for reviewers for his ELS 2014 article: https://github.com/fare/asdf3-2013/blob/master/asdf3-2014.scrbl (can send PDF by mail) 20:48:51 pjb: I did use gdb when cffi loading a foreign lib with ecl: I put a pending break in the C file parent of the foreign lib. However in this case here, I want to inspect a cffi funcall but there is no foreign lib 20:49:18 is there a no-hang equivalent of (read-byte)? 20:50:11 xrq [~user@unaffiliated/xrq] has joined #lisp 20:50:33 yzzyx``: for usocket you can do a wait-for-input followed by socket-receive 20:52:02 But I don't know that it's guaranteed to not hang. 20:52:06 ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@88.231.50.12] has joined #lisp 20:52:13 hey ho. can't get there from here. :/ 20:53:21 also, i can't seem to find the socket used by hunchentoot, only the underlying FD-STREAM... 20:53:30 yzzyx``, are you looking for IOLib ? 20:54:40 normanrichards [~textual@cpe-24-27-51-104.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:55:29 -!- Twipply [~Twipply3@cpc17-mapp10-2-0-cust179.12-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:55:37 yzzyx``: it uses usocket 20:55:46 can it wrap a usocket:socket? 20:55:51 yzzyx``: M-. is your friend 20:55:57 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:56:26 Fare: yzzyx`` is specifically working with hunchentoot right now 20:57:04 -!- zajn [~zajn@airbears2-136-152-142-14.AirBears2.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:57:06 aha, handy. okay, this is more than enough to work with, i shall stop my whining and return with battlescars tomorrow. thanks for all the help! 20:57:48 Just remember that long-polling with hunchentoot, you're not going to have a good time. 20:58:02 jasom: i'm slowly learning this fact. :) 20:58:49 i fear i will be using mongrel2 by the end of the week. 20:59:22 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.245] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:00:51 It wouldn't surprise me if hu.dwim.web-server could do it 21:01:33 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 21:02:09 or maybe antiweb 21:03:37 hmm, they sound worth having a look at at least, thanks again. 21:03:42 jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-98-253-57-51.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:03:45 mindCrime__ [~prhodes@rrcs-98-101-159-194.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:04:59 when you want to provide &key facility in a defun but don't know the list of keys, the idea is to use both &allow-other-keys and &whole, right? 21:05:13 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-budewwtqhnivcpsq] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:05:19 -!- mindCrime_ [~prhodes@rrcs-98-101-159-194.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:05:34 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:05:58 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 21:07:13 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.205.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:07:14 jimmyy [~jimmyy@124.150.50.136] has joined #lisp 21:07:35 &rest keyword-pairs &key &allow-other-keys seems to be what I want 21:09:45 -!- LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:11:54 Bike_ [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 21:11:59 xan__ 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[~8680@2002:4404:712c:0:76de:2bff:fed4:2766] has joined #lisp 21:52:25 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:52:25 -!- _8680_ is now known as Guest68086 21:54:20 zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has joined #lisp 21:56:10 funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has joined #lisp 21:57:54 -!- Poenikatu [~kvirc@pdpc/supporter/bronze/poenikatu] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 21:59:42 wgl [~user@c-50-179-195-64.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:24 sohail_ [~sohail@75-119-249-40.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 22:02:49 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:04:23 -!- funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:05:23 ASau [~user@46.115.137.28] has joined #lisp 22:07:04 -!- BlackWabi [~wabi@194.47.219.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:07:35 EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:346a:e152:904d:8459] has joined #lisp 22:07:36 QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:36 funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has joined #lisp 22:08:14 Is anyone here familiar with bioperl or any other bio*? 22:09:02 BlackWabi [~wabi@ip236-62.wireless.lu.se] has joined #lisp 22:10:44 how might i find out how many bytes are available to read from a usocket? 22:11:25 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:12:02 yzzyx``: Aha! That is the big question, and the answer is that you don't. It requires coordination between the writer and the reader to know what the boundaries are. 22:12:09 -!- alpha- [~silver@unaffiliated/alpha--] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:12:53 ahungry [~null@99-40-9-245.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:03 wgl: whee. so then, i should just (read-byte) while (listen stream) and that's the "fast" way to do it for stream based protocols? 22:13:53 in some outer loop that invokes wait-for-input? 22:13:56 See, the thing is that you don't know where to stop. So applications have either a protocol that describes the length to be read somehow, or some terminating token, or, as in HTTP, "read from me until I hang up" 22:14:17 -!- sellout- [~Adium@173-164-61-149-colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:14:33 -!- funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:15:09 If you read too many, you will block, and both sides are staring at each other. 22:15:13 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@50.241.129.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:15:15 That's pretty old way of HTTP, in modern times servers prefer not to close the connection. 22:15:17 "read from me until I hang up, while I send you a coredump." 22:15:24 don't you just read until eof? If the buffer is empty but the connection will continue to wait 22:15:31 Of course, client has to inform that it supports this mode. 22:15:51 s/connection/connection is up it/ 22:16:16 i was really interested in if I could query the bytes that have currently been received by the kernel 22:16:55 yzzyx``: the bsd sockets API doesn't provide a way to do that 22:16:57 excluding any protocol information, something, somewhere, knows you sent me (at least) 6 bytes so far, i would like those 6 bytes pulled out of there as fast as possible, rather than picking them off one at a time 22:17:08 jasom: no, they do provide the way to do that. 22:17:13 ASau: they do? 22:17:18 Sure, they do. 22:17:26 prxq: What is EOF? If the other side is binary? 22:17:30 recv() will give you all pending bytes 22:17:41 up to a buffer size 22:17:56 wgl: connection closed 22:17:56 yzzyx``: you want recv() 22:17:58 You put the socket into non-blocking mode and you can query the number of octets received so far. 22:18:07 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.50.12] has joined #lisp 22:18:08 yzzyx``: If the number of bytes ready to read, you don't know if that is because they haven't arrived to your network yet. 22:18:09 ASau: even without calling recv()? 22:18:14 Sure. 22:18:25 good to know 22:18:25 You use ioctl for that. 22:19:12 http://man.netbsd.org/ -> ioctl(2) -> FIONREAD, FIONWRITE. 22:19:49 hmm. i guess usocket sucks for that, then. 22:19:49 ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@88.231.50.12] has joined #lisp 22:20:11 yzzyx``: usocket is strictly blocking API I think. You want IOLib for non-blocking sockets 22:20:50 okay, that works, i'll have a play. 22:21:27 failing that there's always cffi... 22:21:39 ustunoz__ [~ustunozgu@88.231.50.12] has joined #lisp 22:22:01 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:22:39 hmm, esrap has no way of including the position of the input in the production? 22:22:57 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.50.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:23:44 uzo_ [~uzo@172.56.28.130] has joined #lisp 22:23:48 -!- alexherb1 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-91-224.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 22:24:09 -!- ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@88.231.50.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:26:32 -!- Denommus` is now known as Denommus 22:26:33 -!- ustunoz__ [~ustunozgu@88.231.50.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:26:53 oh dear, lots of breakage in iolib.asd if #-unix 22:27:06 yzzyx``: yes 22:27:07 :) 22:27:35 It supports linux and freebsd only 22:27:52 whelp. cffi and winsock it is... 22:28:16 -!- cgore [~cgore@cgore.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:28:41 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@2001:41d0:1:b41f::1] has joined #lisp 22:28:59 i'm sure i'm missing something obvious, but in -> (with-input-from-string (s "Animal Crackers" :index j :start 1 :end 9) (read s)) 22:29:29 why does only NIMAL get printed? it doesn't go past the first blank 22:29:42 yzzyx``: feel free to port IOLib to windows. Add IOCP support too for bonus points :) 22:30:09 -!- uzo_ [~uzo@172.56.28.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:31:54 :) we shall see. 22:32:13 i was really interested in if I could query the bytes that have currently been received by the kernel 22:32:22 jimmyy [~jimmyy@202.10.84.162] has joined #lisp 22:32:40 -!- jimmyy [~jimmyy@202.10.84.162] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:32:42 yzzyx``: I assume that here you assume the (maximal) number of octets you can read without blocking 22:32:51 rather than "currently received by the kernel". 22:33:09 asau, correct, i was perhaps being more specific than i should have been 22:33:32 yzzyx``: looks like winsock2 supports FIONREAD: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop/ms738573(v=vs.85).aspx 22:33:40 I'm sure that usually you're not interested in retransmissions and acknowledgments. 22:33:52 to be clear, i would expect NIMAL CRA, or something like that 22:34:14 Though this may be possible too, although not via regular sockets API. 22:34:18 jimmyy [~jimmyy@202.10.84.162] has joined #lisp 22:34:54 sohail__ [~sohail@108.161.127.158] has joined #lisp 22:34:57 -!- jimmyy [~jimmyy@202.10.84.162] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:35:07 asau yes, really it's just if i can pull a FEW bytes out at a time, i would hope that shaves off a few microseconds here and there 22:35:37 nug700 [~nug700@71-37-219-192.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:38 jimmyy [~jimmyy@202.10.84.162] has joined #lisp 22:35:42 yzzyx``: Why not just use recv() then? 22:35:54 recv() typically won't block if data is available 22:36:21 -!- jimmyy [~jimmyy@202.10.84.162] has quit [Client Quit] 22:36:35 jasom: "If no messages are available at the socket, the receive call waits for a message to arrive" 22:36:48 See recv(2). 22:36:57 ASau: read what I said again 22:37:21 -!- sohail_ [~sohail@75-119-249-40.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:37:23 <_death> faheem: www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/02_adg.htm 22:37:24 jasom: I would, but i can't use usocket, since the whole row is "TODO" for usocket recv, and iolib blew up under win32 (and I like to develop locally and push to a linux server every now and then) 22:38:30 _death: yes, whitespace seems special, but i don't see why. does it stop reading when it hits whitespace? why? 22:38:49 jasom: there're too many details, in some cases it can block even if data are available. 22:39:08 ASau: which is why I said "typically" 22:39:12 that said, it can't be THAT hard to add that in myself... 22:39:26 It sounds lke all yzzyx`` wants to do is read more than one byte at a time 22:40:39 yes, i'm not that fussy. in reality, i can probably just read-byte's while listening. I'd just like to compare the two approaches 22:41:04 yzzyx``: sorry, I have missed, what are you trying to accomplish? 22:41:17 okay usocket doesn't have any equivalent of recv? That is awesome. 22:41:20 ASau: consume bytes as fast as possible from a socket 22:41:23 The "u" is for "useless" 22:41:28 -!- clintm [~clintm@001e52f0de2b.click-network.com] has quit [Quit: clintm] 22:41:38 really just to measure throughput. 22:42:16 Well... 22:42:21 it MAY be that there's not much to be gained, but i'd like to see. 22:42:29 <_death> faheem: perhaps you don't understand the function of READ.. look it up 22:42:46 _death: ok, will do 22:42:52 sohail_ [~sohail@69-165-149-167.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 22:43:31 yzzyx``: you can use read-sequence if all you're doing is benchmarking. It will block until you get enough bytes to fill up the sequence, but if you're flooding it, that's no problem. 22:43:33 yzzyx``: throughput in which sense and between what and what? 22:45:03 jimmyy [~jimmyy@202.10.84.162] has joined #lisp 22:45:09 -!- sohail__ [~sohail@108.161.127.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:45:15 throughput of a data-pumping loop in cl, over localhost (so not actually limited by such inconveniences as actual physical links) 22:45:31 cheryllium [~chatzilla@128.237.220.14] has joined #lisp 22:45:31 -!- jimmyy [~jimmyy@202.10.84.162] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:46:04 -!- Guest42561 is now known as Fare 22:46:34 -!- Fare is now known as Guest2407 22:46:35 funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has joined #lisp 22:46:53 -!- Guest2407 is now known as FareWell 22:47:00 i doubt actually that the kernel would even do SYN/ACKs over localhost, surely it just just pushes bytes about. 22:47:11 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:47:26 yzzyx``: You could just use your implementations socket library. e.g. http://www.sbcl.org/manual/#Sockets-Overview 22:47:59 jasom, i'd just inadvertantly stumbled across that while I was looking at usocket's implementation. 22:48:02 -!- __prefect [~prefect@koln-5d817d12.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:48:03 yzzyx``: I would guess you are wrong; domain sockets are noticably faster than tcp/io sockets 22:48:27 yzzyx``: but that's on linux; I don't know how windows does it. 22:49:03 you can observe the packets going over the loopback interface with e.g. tcpdump 22:49:25 jsnell_: true. actually under windows you can't, or at least couldn't. 22:50:15 ejbs [~user@h82-117-106-93.dynamic.se.alltele.net] has joined #lisp 22:50:16 jimmyy [~jimmyy@202.10.84.162] has joined #lisp 22:50:32 -!- jimmyy [~jimmyy@202.10.84.162] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:51:10 jimmyy [~jimmyy@202.10.84.162] has joined #lisp 22:52:20 -!- funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:53:30 KCL [~quassel@50.13.169.64] has joined #lisp 22:53:45 -!- jasom [~aidenn@ip70-191-80-19.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:54:01 jasom [~aidenn@ip70-191-80-19.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:06 funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has joined #lisp 22:56:09 -!- Jayk97 [~quassel@50.13.169.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:59:57 nand1 [~user@se4x.mullvad.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:52 -!- funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:02:00 funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has joined #lisp 23:07:29 -!- BlackWabi [~wabi@ip236-62.wireless.lu.se] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:08:17 -!- funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:08:48 -!- bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:09:28 funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has joined #lisp 23:12:14 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@ip-64-134-142-77.public.wayport.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:14:53 ketamin [~octave@131.178.200.1] has joined #lisp 23:15:45 -!- funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:17:08 funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has joined #lisp 23:17:25 -!- lduros [~user@pool-108-52-158-9.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:17:46 mal_ [mal@2001:41d0:1:66c4::1] has joined #lisp 23:18:13 nug700_ [~nug700@71-223-191-156.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:09 -!- nug700 [~nug700@71-37-219-192.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:19:35 -!- oofya [~user@24.20.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:22:02 segv- [~mb@95-91-211-245-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 23:22:47 -!- funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:24:49 -!- izirku [~IceChat9@sys-its-g56vnw1-yev.cc.unt.edu] has quit [Quit: Give a man a fish and he will eat for a day. Teach him how to fish, and he will sit in a boat and drink beer all day] 23:25:04 funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has joined #lisp 23:26:56 schoppenhauer [~schoppenh@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 23:30:49 -!- funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:32:31 funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has joined #lisp 23:36:23 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:38:25 -!- FareWell [fare@nat/google/x-novaadnurkplrsdw] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:38:32 -!- funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:38:59 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 23:39:32 funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has joined #lisp 23:39:59 -!- sohail_ [~sohail@69-165-149-167.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:40:04 ejbs` [~user@h82-117-106-93.dynamic.se.alltele.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:50 -!- ejbs [~user@h82-117-106-93.dynamic.se.alltele.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:41:57 -!- sz0 [~user@208.72.139.54] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:42:38 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:43:05 sz0 [~user@208.72.139.54] has joined #lisp 23:46:54 -!- funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:47:02 funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has joined #lisp 23:48:39 -!- sz0 [~user@208.72.139.54] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:50:02 -!- zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:51:23 -!- ejbs` [~user@h82-117-106-93.dynamic.se.alltele.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:52:40 hmm the set of all valid netstrings is not a context-free grammar. 23:52:54 -!- funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:53:00 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.91.221] has joined #lisp 23:53:03 which makes it not parseable with esrap 23:53:48 thepreacher [~thepreach@118.35.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 23:54:35 funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has joined #lisp 23:55:42 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 23:57:01 sohail_ [~sohail@69-165-157-196.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 23:58:44 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds]