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[~duggiefre@c-24-60-1-249.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:33:31 -!- zz_karupanerura is now known as karupanerura 00:34:01 -!- drl_ [~lat@125.162.192.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:34:07 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-242-30-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:37:50 -!- shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-vgbuiksdsyydedym] has quit [Quit: shridhar] 00:38:31 Component :asdf does not match version 3.0.3, required by # 00:39:36 "You have to install it yourself for the time being." 00:40:44 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-24-60-1-249.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:40:56 yeah i wish everyone would get that updated :P 00:41:38 -!- mhd [~mhd@cpe-76-170-71-237.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 00:43:24 bhyde, asdf 3.0.3 provides input and error-output redirection 00:43:31 that inferior shell 2.0.0 relies upon 00:44:00 earlier versions of asdf3 only did output redirection 00:44:50 "Vafgnyyvat vg jnfa'g qvssvphyg" 00:44:54 which was enough for its purpose, until fixing corner cases in ECL required doing more. 00:47:00 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:57 drl_ [~lat@125.162.192.110] has joined #lisp 00:51:03 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-24-60-1-249.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:51:37 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-24-60-1-249.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:54:31 -!- varjag [uid4973@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uvyvwvyolrhflmuq] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 00:54:41 Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:58 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-24-60-1-249.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:58:52 michael_lee [~michael_l@222.90.50.214] has joined #lisp 00:59:19 nha_ [~prefect@koln-4d0dc847.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:01 -!- __prefect [~prefect@koln-5d817537.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:02:11 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:02:56 -!- percopal [~percopal@63.65.76.38] has quit [Quit: percopal] 01:06:07 nand1 [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:17 znode [~Z.Node@61.143.60.83] has joined #lisp 01:06:30 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:06:34 -!- harish [~harish@175.156.103.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:08:13 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-24-60-1-249.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:08:58 -!- nffff [~nffff@c-50-183-123-25.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:11:28 -!- drl_ [~lat@125.162.192.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:12:37 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-24-60-1-249.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:15:33 andreh [~andreh@189.27.4.212.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 01:16:22 -!- lduros` [~user@pool-108-52-158-9.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:19:25 cheryllium [~chatzilla@128.237.210.190] has joined #lisp 01:21:39 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:05 duggiefr_ [~duggiefre@c-24-60-1-249.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:24:02 drl_ [~lat@125.167.131.204] has joined #lisp 01:24:05 ikki [~ikki@201.164.188.229] has joined #lisp 01:24:38 we should come up with a name for our alien mascot 01:26:18 -!- duggiefr_ [~duggiefre@c-24-60-1-249.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:27:29 -!- chavezgu [~chavezgu@as66-186.tontut.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:31:19 -!- JuniorRoy [~dev@217.118.79.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:31:56 mhd [~mhd@cpe-76-170-71-237.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:36:18 harish [~harish@14.100.132.215] has joined #lisp 01:36:20 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@gateway/tor-sasl/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:38:18 -!- nha_ [~prefect@koln-4d0dc847.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:40:24 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:45:59 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@50.241.129.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:48:04 -!- cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [] 01:48:37 da4c30ff__ [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has joined #lisp 01:48:43 jleija [~jleija@50.15.142.21] has joined #lisp 01:49:14 cmack [~charlie@adsl-74-179-25-127.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:49:19 -!- urandom__ [~user@p20030056C87CC0C83E970EFFFE524478.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 01:50:19 -!- da4c30ff__ [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:51:38 -!- skyLibrary [uid14629@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oydggrmfhoqrwzoh] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 01:52:37 -!- waa [~waa@189-31-214-4.ctame700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:54:49 -!- harish [~harish@14.100.132.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:56:20 lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:57:23 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 01:59:02 https://gist.github.com/ober/9378235 is it 02:01:29 cheryllium: lispy 02:02:02 pjb that seems a little too unoriginal :P 02:02:04 parens 02:04:02 lambdalien 02:04:31 primeape [47b15ff3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.177.95.243] has joined #lisp 02:04:31 Lambdalien sounds like it would be the species he is 02:04:44 can someone find the nigger in the woodpile please? 02:05:33 http://www.codewars.com/join?language=javascript 02:05:49 are you fishing for a kickban? 02:06:54 Adlai [~Adlai@gateway/tor-sasl/adlai] has joined #lisp 02:07:41 funcall, the lambdalien 02:08:00 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-krmhhdymfwyxopch] has joined #lisp 02:08:49 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9EDD6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:08:55 -!- lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih_] 02:11:26 cdadr, the lambdalien? 02:12:19 but really, it is bad form to baptize the mascot without asking Conrad Barski, the author, first. 02:12:36 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 02:13:38 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:16:40 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:21:31 -!- Watcher7 [~w@108.218.11.14] has quit [Quit: h] 02:26:13 Mr. Barski would like us to come up with a name, last I checked 02:26:38 http://www.lisperati.com/logo.html 02:26:40 where / when ? 02:26:46 He asks us, "What should be the name of the Lisp Alien Mascot?" 02:26:57 He wants us to email him our suggestions. 02:27:04 that was long ago 02:27:09 It was 02:27:17 but that doesn't mean our alien must go forever nameless 02:27:29 I'm sure Conrad would not mind if we named him as a community 02:28:03 -!- mtd [~martin@ops-13.xades.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:28:25 Cdadr is interesting 02:29:50 I actually really like Cdadr 02:30:14 We should put up a poll somewhere for this. It would be nice for our lambdalien to have a name 02:30:38 frkout_ [~frkout@101.110.31.120] has joined #lisp 02:34:32 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p57922478.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:34:33 -!- frkout [~frkout@101.110.31.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:35:14 wgreenhouse_ [~wgreenhou@fsf/member/wgreenhouse] has joined #lisp 02:35:39 guaqua` [gua@hilla.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 02:35:39 -!- guaqua [gua@hilla.kapsi.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:36:08 -!- wgreenhouse [~wgreenhou@fsf/member/wgreenhouse] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 02:36:09 -!- wgreenhouse_ is now known as wgreenhouse 02:37:07 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA30F6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 02:42:47 -!- prxq [~mommer@x2f6b75e.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:43:38 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:45:13 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:46:08 -!- drewc1 [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:51:18 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:52:10 -!- sirdancealo3 [~koo5@194.228.11.172] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:52:23 drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:31 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 02:55:33 prxq [~mommer@x2f6d4fa.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lisp 02:55:48 lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 02:57:00 ltbarcly [~textual@80.179.186.2.forward.012.net.il] has joined #lisp 02:57:02 Cadaar 02:59:54 Cons....y? 03:00:59 mtd [~martin@ops-13.xades.com] has joined #lisp 03:03:39 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.251.216.208] has joined #lisp 03:03:40 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.251.216.208] has quit [Changing host] 03:03:40 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 03:04:02 bhyde: it IS difficult 03:04:59 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.159.5.100] has joined #lisp 03:08:42 aluuu [~aluuu@77.242.110.178] has joined #lisp 03:09:12 cheryllium: if "Consy", will he say "Allonsy"? 03:09:35 haha, that's cute 03:10:55 at least this alien doesn't have as an important characteristic being the living embodiment of the saying that wars don't decide winners, just who is left 03:11:41 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:47 rme [~rme@50.43.177.60] has joined #lisp 03:17:13 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.67.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:18:50 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 03:21:45 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.67.185] has joined #lisp 03:23:09 -!- frkout_ [~frkout@101.110.31.120] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:23:22 diadara_ [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 03:23:37 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:23:42 frkout [~frkout@101.110.31.250] has joined #lisp 03:25:47 jangle [~jimmy1984@pool-108-15-111-28.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:27:04 my friend had a question about lisp. He asked me who is in charge of the github repos for lisp implementations, like sbcl. can anyone here shed some light? 03:27:19 I told him that it is open source so it doesn't belong to one person, but he says somebody has to be in charge of the master branch 03:29:00 https://github.com/orgs/sbcl/members 03:29:15 Watcher7 [~w@108.218.11.14] has joined #lisp 03:29:44 and https://launchpad.net/~sbcl-hackers etc. i guess if i had to pick one person it would be nikodemus but i dunno 03:32:46 cheryllium, each repo has a set of admins and of committers. If you want to fork, it's one click away. 03:33:39 p_l: isn't that a Bertrand Russell quote? "War does not determine who is right — only who is left." 03:35:41 I suppose the github "members" are those who can decide to commit or merge into the master branch? 03:36:02 they're the ones taking merge requests, yes 03:36:09 Thanks, that makes sens. 03:38:53 brandonz [~brandon@208-90-213-226-typea.static.monkeybrains.net] has joined #lisp 03:39:16 przl_ [~przlrkt@p5DD14FC6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 03:42:41 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA30F6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:47:03 Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-229-162-41.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 03:48:40 Fare: yes. And The Doctor definitely embodies this trope 03:49:29 da4c30ff__ [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has joined #lisp 03:50:49 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:52:19 -!- Watcher7 [~w@108.218.11.14] has quit [Quit: h] 03:53:06 I know very little about The Doctor, except for a few comics of Doctor Who vs the Iron Legion. 03:54:10 Fare: I'm not very deep into it, but the idea of him being (mostly) last one standing from his civilization is familiar to me :) 03:54:17 -!- da4c30ff__ [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:55:58 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.164.188.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:57:51 beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-102-75.w109-214.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 03:57:59 Good morning everyone! 03:58:17 Good morning 04:00:25 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:00:46 Watcher7 [~w@hi.i.wanted.to.let.you.all.know.that.i.think.incest.is.wince.st] has joined #lisp 04:04:43 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.177.60] has left #lisp 04:04:58 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.67.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:06:35 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@80.179.186.2.forward.012.net.il] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 04:06:44 beach: bonjour! 04:11:16 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 04:12:58 -!- lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Quit: lyanchih_] 04:18:27 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:19:26 -!- segmond [~segmond@adsl-108-67-100-234.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:21:06 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:21:23 -!- fridim__ [~fridim@65.93.77.146] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:23:04 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:23:39 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:24:38 is common-lisp.net down? 04:24:40 is that known? 04:24:58 or just slow? 04:26:36 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 04:26:39 -!- wheelsucker [~wheelsuck@ip68-105-66-161.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 04:28:00 Fare: works for me (JANET) 04:28:23 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:28:27 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:29:13 Kingpatzer [~david@24-179-214-16.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:29:33 Jayk97 [~quassel@50.13.169.64] has joined #lisp 04:30:49 -!- r0b4 [~robert@subtle/contributor/robgleeson] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:31:31 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:31:54 segmond [~segmond@adsl-108-67-100-234.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:31:59 -!- KCL [~quassel@50.13.169.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:34:14 ok, just got a big lag, then. Weird. Thanks. 04:35:36 -!- optikalmouse [~omouse@69-165-245-60.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:40:03 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 04:41:22 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.67.185] has joined #lisp 04:43:13 ggole [~ggole@106-68-78-97.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 04:46:18 -!- segmond [~segmond@adsl-108-67-100-234.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:49:23 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:50:51 segmond [~segmond@adsl-108-67-100-234.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:50:55 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 04:51:17 -!- juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has quit [Quit: juanlas] 04:53:14 -!- brandonz [~brandon@208-90-213-226-typea.static.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:57:06 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.67.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:58:37 bocaneri [~bocaneri_@about/linux/staff/sauvin] has joined #lisp 04:58:53 -!- bocaneri [~bocaneri_@about/linux/staff/sauvin] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 04:59:11 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:00:43 bocaneri [~bocaneri_@about/linux/staff/sauvin] has joined #lisp 05:06:49 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:08:19 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 05:08:57 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 05:09:32 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:10:12 -!- rockymadden [~rockymadd@unaffiliated/rockymadden] has quit [] 05:13:05 looks like the bots stopped spamming links 05:13:14 theos: untrue 05:13:33 p_l i dont see them getting kicked 05:13:49 theos: because the autokicker is disabled (although I removed the message from it) 05:14:11 phf [~phf@109.188.127.209] has joined #lisp 05:14:14 p_l so the bots are still in the channel? 05:14:15 -!- phf [~phf@109.188.127.209] has left #lisp 05:14:18 you don't see the bot because of +q lines, and I keep @ so that I see if someone is improperly silenced 05:14:26 theos: yes ;_; 05:14:30 :| 05:14:50 last one was around 2004 UTC yesterday, but we had pauses like this before 05:15:46 i see. maybe the controller is in the channel too 05:16:03 theos: doubtful 05:17:12 anyway, EOT on the bots. Even the least-important stuff is better than them, which is wasting my time on Sakurasou instead of patching lxc-awesome-ephemeral or writing my thesis 05:17:44 *Fare* finds more subtle bugs thanks to / because of ECL 05:17:50 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-229-162-41.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:18:16 Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-229-162-41.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:18:34 What is your thesis on? 05:18:58 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 05:19:08 p_l: you might want to give out more ops bits so people may kickban bots & trolls 05:19:47 p_l: also, can you put cl-launch 4.0.2.2 in the channel title? It has notably improved interface with -sp and -E, as compared to 4.0.0 05:20:02 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 05:20:22 #!/usr/bin/cl -sp lisp-stripper -E main\n(defun main (argv) ...) 05:20:34 -!- p_l changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programminglanguage .|Contact op if you can't speak| New: cl-launch 4.0.2.2, drakma 1.3.8, cl-ppcre 2.0.7, hunchentoot 1.2.26, flexi-streams 1.0.10 05:20:37 -!- diadara_ [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:22:35 -!- red`s [~red_s@187-127-234-143.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [] 05:22:45 Fare: It's not so much that I am against giving people op bits, as much as I am mostly janitor and I can only give them out temporarily 05:23:02 patbarron [~pat@pool-173-75-28-121.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:23:27 p_l: you're not owner according to chanops, or something? 05:23:37 oh well 05:23:39 and except for the idiotic botspam, we didn't have that much problem 05:23:56 Fare: I don't have write permission to channel access flags 05:24:04 ok 05:24:30 so I can do /op , but I can't make be able to ask chanserv for OP 05:24:40 ok 05:25:08 pillton: Data Security in Semantic&Linked Web through Ontology Reasoning 05:25:20 probably going to have a bunch of Clojure code involved 05:25:25 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 05:26:35 nice 05:26:40 Still easier, in my mind, to integrate with Java than the same from ABCL 05:26:59 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@pool-108-15-111-28.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:27:03 -!- davazp [~user@167.Red-88-15-120.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:27:04 and among other things I'm using a reasoner written in Java 05:27:36 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 05:29:17 the project in general is quite interesting, because I haven't really seen much *practical* work in the high-level approaches 05:29:25 nothing that is current, at least 05:29:47 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 05:30:01 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:30:51 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 05:31:59 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 05:33:21 Lefeni [~Lefeni@c-7149e555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 05:33:32 sellout- [~Adium@c-50-134-206-238.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:36:13 jangle [~jimmy1984@pool-108-15-111-28.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:38:10 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:39:27 juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has joined #lisp 05:39:31 Cool. Good luck with the thesis. It is a hard slog. 05:40:38 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:42:00 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 05:43:04 eh, there's also the damn LXC work that is *late* by over a month, and new Google SRE recruitement 05:43:55 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.15.142.21] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:45:45 one very bright point is that by 3rd week of May, I'm finally *free* 05:48:10 semantic web looks a lot like 1980s "AI", "expert systems", etc. 05:48:30 just with bigger machines, better filtering libraries, etc. 05:49:59 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.67.185] has joined #lisp 05:50:06 Fare: A bit. It gets out of the stigma left by maniacal claims of the old 05:50:20 da4c30ff__ [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has joined #lisp 05:50:56 and there's a lot to be said about potential for more generic description of data and communication of it 05:51:25 Well, why be surprised by that? 05:51:38 The 80s systems worked pretty well within their constraints. 05:52:02 The other major change has been the shift to statistical reasoning, although that isn't really part of the semantic web. 05:52:03 Yeah. Today we are starting to see resurgence of it under different names 05:52:32 kyl_ [~kyle_dev@deathstar.tyrfingr.is] has joined #lisp 05:53:22 there's a ton of places that it fits pretty well, and you can hook statistical methods as well (I think Xanalys actually demoed something related in their LinkExplorer demo from ECLM 2011) 05:53:39 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@pool-108-15-111-28.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jangle] 05:54:47 -!- da4c30ff__ [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:54:57 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.159.5.100] has quit [Quit: Disconnecting -- bye] 05:59:05 frkout_ [~frkout@101.110.31.120] has joined #lisp 06:00:47 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-141-132.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:02:23 -!- frkout [~frkout@101.110.31.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:04:01 pierre1_ [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has joined #lisp 06:04:01 -!- drl_ [~lat@125.167.131.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 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[~hiroaki@77-20-194-73-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:19:03 BlobJoe [~alexandre@pa5-84-91-153-84.netvisao.pt] has joined #lisp 07:21:19 when a generic function is being processed to find what methods to use, doesn't lisp have to iterate through all methods related to that function to see if they apply to the arguments given? 07:21:49 that's the naive way of doing it, yeah. 07:21:55 you can speed it up some. 07:21:57 BlobJoe: the details are specified in AMOP 07:21:58 what do you mean "naive"? 07:22:10 as in, that would work ,but there are better ways, and those ways are used. 07:22:55 better ways of defining a generic function or better ways to look up the methods? 07:23:04 the latter. 07:23:04 BlobJoe: one better way is to query for a certain combination of argument types and cache that information 07:24:01 but I have no control over that right? That is implementation specific. 07:24:05 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.67.185] has joined #lisp 07:24:08 it's in AMOP. 07:24:09 BlobJoe: the underlying protocols are documented in the amop. for example, there is a mechanism that allows the runtime to cache applicable methods and still allow run-time definition of methods 07:24:38 BlobJoe: if you are into that kind of stuff, by all means read the amop. it is mind blowing. 07:24:45 What is AMOP? 07:24:52 minion: amop 07:24:52 amop: The Art of the Metaobject Protocol, an essential book for understanding the implementation of CLOS and advanced OO. See the sepcification of MOP at http://www.alu.org/mop/ 07:25:19 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-zfkbeymmlknnxplk] has joined #lisp 07:25:26 I recommend searching a library for the full book 07:25:27 BlobJoe: you do want the actual book, though, not just the few chapters that are available online. 07:26:16 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.193.154] has left #lisp 07:26:18 Alright, thanks. So provided that my implementation of lisp is well made it isn't a hassle to have an initialize-instance for every class right? 07:26:41 hassle as in it might become slow with enough classes 07:26:56 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.193.154] has joined #lisp 07:27:05 BlobJoe: clos is designed so that optimization is possible 07:27:44 BlobJoe: which does not mean that it cannot be slow. it is in a different ballpark than, say, ruby's object system in that regard, though (i.e. much easier to optimize) 07:28:59 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-015-111.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:29:02 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:29:08 BlobJoe: there's usually even more caching on make-instance and underlings, too 07:29:16 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 07:29:48 ok, I'll look into it further then. Thank you. 07:32:47 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:33:59 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:35:29 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.67.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:38:01 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-19-194.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:29 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:39:35 -!- BlobJoe [~alexandre@pa5-84-91-153-84.netvisao.pt] has left #lisp 07:39:58 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:40:36 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.67.185] has joined #lisp 07:40:56 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:41:18 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 07:50:38 -!- patbarron [~pat@pool-173-75-28-121.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Exiting HexChat] 07:50:43 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:51:16 da4c30ff__ [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has joined #lisp 07:51:31 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-ojilnoxuyxihzrbo] has joined #lisp 07:55:04 nha_ [~prefect@koln-4d0dc847.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:55:18 -!- da4c30ff__ [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:56:56 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-188-164.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:59:39 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:02:24 maxpeck [~maxpeck@unaffiliated/maxpeck] has joined #lisp 08:02:51 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@108.60.118.130] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:04:09 emma_ [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 08:05:14 yacks [~py@122.179.102.149] has joined #lisp 08:09:37 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:11:36 xani [~user@178.183.147.101.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has joined #lisp 08:12:16 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:13:46 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #lisp 08:15:43 -!- maxpeck [~maxpeck@unaffiliated/maxpeck] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 08:16:25 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:17:52 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 08:18:44 KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9DDAD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:20:48 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5058:2f10:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 08:24:34 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:24:39 sz0 [~user@208.72.139.54] has joined #lisp 08:32:05 -!- wgreenhouse [~wgreenhou@fsf/member/wgreenhouse] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:32:38 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-68.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:32:44 wgreenhouse [~wgreenhou@fsf/member/wgreenhouse] has joined #lisp 08:33:11 maxpeck [~maxpeck@unaffiliated/maxpeck] has joined #lisp 08:33:36 arenz [~arenz@37.17.234.254] has joined #lisp 08:36:37 -!- Mandus [~aasmundo@ii181070.directconnect.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:36:49 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-229-162-41.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:39:06 Harag [~Thunderbi@41.13.48.160] has joined #lisp 08:39:34 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:40:06 Mandus [~aasmundo@ii181070.directconnect.no] has joined #lisp 08:42:49 -!- andreh [~andreh@189.27.4.212.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:43:04 -!- pierre1_ [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:43:16 zhaov [~zhaov@221.123.160.250] has joined #lisp 08:44:11 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:45:51 -!- zhaov [~zhaov@221.123.160.250] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 08:46:04 zhaov [~zhaov@221.123.160.250] has joined #lisp 08:49:31 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@94.126.2.74] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:49:57 mathrick [~mathrick@94.126.2.74] has joined #lisp 08:51:25 przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has joined #lisp 08:53:52 is there some small web framework to learn the basic? 08:54:09 zhaov: just use hunchentoot's easy-handlers to get started 08:55:35 H4ns: thanks. i'll read it 08:56:03 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 08:57:29 durzo_blint90 [~owner@cpc28-live21-2-0-cust296.17-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 08:58:23 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.193.154] has left #lisp 08:59:29 Hey guys. Is SICP a good book to learn programming for the first time? 08:59:45 durzo_blint90: yes. it is not a book on common lisp, though. 08:59:46 durzo_blint90: it's hard 08:59:53 durzo_blint90: some find it dry. 08:59:56 minion: gentle 08:59:56 gentle: "Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" is a smoother introduction to lisp programming. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ 09:00:05 durzo_blint90: and will cost you a lot of time 09:00:41 learning how to program costs a lot of time. like, many years. 09:01:31 pavelpenev [~quassel@92.247.23.10] has joined #lisp 09:01:35 Okay thanks. I'm learning for fun really. Could I make games? Like a roguelike? 09:02:07 durzo_blint90: sure. although it will not be particularly easy in lisp as the user interface part will be relatively hard to set up. 09:02:23 durzo_blint90: compared to other programming language which are more popular in games programming. 09:03:37 Ah right. There is also a book called 'Land of Lisp' which teaches centred on game development. Not sure which of the three to choose. 09:04:20 land of lisp has the reputation of being inconsistent in its examples and relatively hard to follow 09:04:36 but it is in the games domain, so maybe it is worth a look, i agre 09:04:40 durzo_blint90: you might get some inspiration from http://common-lisp.net/project/lifp/rouge.htm , and a few more sophisticated indie games in lisp. 09:04:41 durzo_blint90: if you want to start with simple games (that can still be very fun), then yes, Land of Lisp is good. SICP is good for when you want to get more in depth about computing science in general 09:06:53 MoALTz [~no@user-31-175-247-158.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 09:07:26 durzo_blint90: for example http://blocky.io/ . But this will all be meaningless until you grasp a bit of lisp. 09:08:52 Okay thanks, I may check out A Gentle Introduction for now? 09:09:08 durzo_blint90: you got our blessing 09:11:15 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:11:42 durzo_blint90: how much programming experience do you have? 09:11:58 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 09:15:10 prxq, Not much at all. I know the concepts behind functions, data types and variables. I toyed around a little with Actionscript in high school. Most I achieved though was a circle I could control with WASD and another coloured circle which followed me haha. 09:16:29 -!- CrazyEddy [~outfool@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:18:26 -!- tesuji [~tesuji@unaffiliated/tesuji] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:18:47 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.67.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:19:26 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:22:02 da4c30ff__ [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has joined #lisp 09:23:02 durzo_blint90: then "gentle" is a good choice. 09:23:31 Okay, I've downloaded the pdf now. 09:25:52 -!- nha_ [~prefect@koln-4d0dc847.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:26:30 -!- gmcastil [~user@97-124-168-220.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:26:33 -!- da4c30ff__ [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:29:03 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 09:30:02 CrazyEddy [~emarcid@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 09:31:07 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 09:31:46 -!- zhaov [~zhaov@221.123.160.250] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 09:33:48 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.67.185] has joined #lisp 09:34:11 durzo_blint90: you will probably need help setting up a developing environment for testing and learning. What are you using or planning to use? 09:35:24 Joreji [~thomas@155-223.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 09:36:28 -!- primeape [47b15ff3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.177.95.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:36:47 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:39:37 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:39:56 -!- znode [~Z.Node@61.143.60.83] has quit [Quit: Lingo - http://www.lingoirc.com] 09:40:17 -!- nug700 [~nug700@71-223-10-69.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 09:41:24 nffff [~nffff@c-50-183-123-25.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:41:49 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 09:46:40 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@gateway/tor-sasl/adlai] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:46:49 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.67.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:47:03 Adlai [~Adlai@gateway/tor-sasl/adlai] has joined #lisp 09:51:17 ,doge 09:51:21 oops 09:52:37 loke: oO 09:54:20 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.67.185] has joined #lisp 09:56:40 such lisp ;-) 09:56:46 (sorry, couldn't resist) 09:56:55 prxq, not sure to be honest, the first two chapters don't use any programming. 09:57:03 such programming, very lambda 09:58:22 durzo_blint90: nowadays people use emacs with slime as an ide, and sbcl as the "inferior lisp", that is, as the actual lisp where the code is compiled, run, and interacted with. 09:59:35 http://paste.lisp.org/display/141509 CL compares well to a lang which has pattern matching built in. Almost identical code 09:59:50 prxq, Ah right, I have used Vim in the past but have never tried emacs. 10:00:58 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@c-50-137-36-57.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)] 10:01:38 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.67.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:01:41 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:02:29 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-krmhhdymfwyxopch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:03:13 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41.13.48.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:04:33 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:05:29 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:11:53 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 10:17:30 -!- qiemem [uid14911@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-scdcliwkggunwbps] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 10:17:33 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:17:54 jackdaniel [~jack@hellsgate.pl] has joined #lisp 10:20:06 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@176.238.53.107] has joined #lisp 10:22:29 durzo_blint90: there is a vim mode for programming in lisp, but the emacs one is much more advanced (because almost everybody that programs in lisp uses emacs) 10:23:02 -!- xani [~user@178.183.147.101.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:23:24 durzo_blint90: the use of a repl is a fairly unique lisp thing and part of what makes it so powerful. It pays to figure it out! 10:24:00 Harag [~Thunderbi@41.13.48.160] has joined #lisp 10:24:05 xani [~user@178.183.147.101.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has joined #lisp 10:28:05 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:28:36 frkout_ [~frkout@101.110.31.120] has joined #lisp 10:31:39 -!- frkout [~frkout@101.110.31.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:32:10 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:35:05 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 10:39:03 lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 10:45:45 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@176.238.53.107] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:46:41 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@176.238.53.107] has joined #lisp 10:48:17 jdz_ [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has joined #lisp 10:48:59 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:57:10 -!- maxpeck [~maxpeck@unaffiliated/maxpeck] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 10:59:11 can i somehow use tables that have upper case column names with postmodern? 10:59:27 by default, column names are downcased 11:00:31 -!- bicgena [uid11626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fbrvljvgqwsrxiyf] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 11:01:19 -!- dilated_dinosaur [~ivan@cpc3-finc13-2-0-cust253.4-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:05:32 -!- frkout_ [~frkout@101.110.31.120] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:06:06 frkout [~frkout@101.110.31.250] has joined #lisp 11:09:07 alezost [~user@128-70-206-28.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 11:10:59 -!- lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:11:38 -!- Joreji [~thomas@155-223.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:12:52 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 11:21:56 Stygia [~gmpsaifi@193.104.83.223] has joined #lisp 11:22:51 przl_ [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has joined #lisp 11:22:51 da4c30ff__ [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has joined #lisp 11:24:59 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:27:40 -!- da4c30ff__ [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:31:14 H4ns: I guess you already tried to use strings instead of symbols? 11:31:53 it worked for me to "escape" :group as a table name 11:35:10 przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has joined #lisp 11:36:03 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-3-177.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 11:36:57 -!- karupanerura is now known as zz_karupanerura 11:37:29 -!- przl_ [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:40:05 -!- jdz_ is now known as jdz 11:40:44 ehu [~ehu@109.34.197.206] has joined #lisp 11:42:16 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 11:44:25 bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #lisp 11:46:40 zickzackv: that did not work, but i'm now just using a string instead of s-sql for this particular query 11:52:15 -!- DarkLinkXXXX [~DarkLinkX@unaffiliated/darklinkxxxx] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:52:20 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 11:53:02 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 11:54:43 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Client Quit] 11:55:28 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 11:58:01 -!- emma_ [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:59:58 emma_ [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:02:44 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:04:22 Kate23 [~Kate23@67.221.255.55] has joined #lisp 12:05:25 -!- Kate23 [~Kate23@67.221.255.55] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:05:58 DarkLinkXXXX [~DarkLinkX@24-113-233-5.wavecable.com] has joined #lisp 12:05:58 -!- DarkLinkXXXX [~DarkLinkX@24-113-233-5.wavecable.com] has quit [Changing host] 12:05:58 DarkLinkXXXX [~DarkLinkX@unaffiliated/darklinkxxxx] has joined #lisp 12:07:40 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 12:08:03 -!- aluuu [~aluuu@77.242.110.178] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:12:47 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-3-177.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:14:40 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.32.163] has joined #lisp 12:16:06 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:16:52 bicgena [uid11626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fmryfnzaumlcnvpg] has joined #lisp 12:17:06 knob [~knob@76.76.202.245] has joined #lisp 12:18:54 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:20:49 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:21:11 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:26:38 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41.13.48.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:26:50 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:28:59 maxpeck [~maxpeck@unaffiliated/maxpeck] has joined #lisp 12:29:15 -!- bicgena [uid11626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fmryfnzaumlcnvpg] has left #lisp 12:31:02 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-3-177.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 12:33:23 prxq, Okay thanks I will learn Emacs too then. (I just got back from long dog walk sorry) 12:33:35 -!- nffff [~nffff@c-50-183-123-25.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:34:07 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 12:34:59 -!- ehu [~ehu@109.34.197.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:34:59 -!- j_king [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:38:25 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:39:47 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-3-177.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:40:18 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:40:26 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 12:42:01 durzo_blint90: how long /is/ your dog? 12:43:43 splittist, Well, she is an Alaskan Malamute so about 22-24" 12:44:19 dim: http://report.quicklisp.org/pgloader/2014-03-06/failtail.txt 12:44:37 diadara_ [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 12:44:58 rikimaru90 [~owner@cpc28-live21-2-0-cust296.17-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 12:45:09 -!- rikimaru90 [~owner@cpc28-live21-2-0-cust296.17-2.cable.virginm.net] has left #lisp 12:45:41 durzo_blint9 [~owner@cpc28-live21-2-0-cust296.17-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 12:47:18 Harag [~Thunderbi@41.13.2.247] has joined #lisp 12:48:23 -!- durzo_blint90 [~owner@cpc28-live21-2-0-cust296.17-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:49:52 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 12:50:35 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-2f10e575.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:51:37 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41.13.2.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:51:45 rustico [~rustico@17-146-114-200.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #lisp 12:52:15 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-19-194.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:52:37 davazp [~user@167.Red-88-15-120.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:55:13 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:55:22 przl [~przlrkt@62.72.64.50] has joined #lisp 12:55:46 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [] 12:57:48 sohail [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 12:57:48 -!- sohail [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 12:57:48 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 13:05:06 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:05:29 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 13:09:42 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.188] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:10:47 -!- xan__ [~xan@80.174.78.203.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:11:08 -!- yacks [~py@122.179.102.149] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:11:42 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.203.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 13:13:28 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-132-189.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 13:14:46 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5058:2f10:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:18:17 -!- michael_lee [~michael_l@222.90.50.214] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:23:47 da4c30ff__ [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has joined #lisp 13:24:44 I would say that the walk of a dog would depend also on his height. Fourtime more so than its length, even. 13:25:32 -!- da4c30ff__ [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:26:28 -!- cmack [~charlie@adsl-74-179-25-127.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:26:38 vaporatorius [~vaporator@25.red-80-29-94.adsl.static.ccgg.telefonica.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:00 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 13:33:25 harish [~harish@180.255.248.99] has joined #lisp 13:34:09 -!- ronparke [~user@cpe-098-026-027-249.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 13:34:23 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-24-60-1-249.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:34:53 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 13:36:10 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:36:47 Acherontius [~user@204.116.186.34] has joined #lisp 13:36:50 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:22 davazp` [~user@177.Red-83-63-237.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:38 michael_lee [~michael_l@117.36.89.206] has joined #lisp 13:38:38 -!- davazp [~user@167.Red-88-15-120.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:39:29 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:40:38 -!- harish [~harish@180.255.248.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:40:58 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:41:02 Joreji [~thomas@155-223.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 13:41:33 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:42:05 -!- jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:46:48 drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.23.211] has joined #lisp 13:49:11 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 13:50:56 pjb, Actually that was the height I was writing! 13:51:50 DalekBaldwin [~user@ip68-231-209-84.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:51:50 I don't know the average length of a fully grown adult male Alaskan Malamute unfortunately. 13:51:50 Pullphinger [~Pullphing@12.40.23.68] has joined #lisp 13:52:53 -!- Kromitvs [~quassel@193.136.164.203] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:54:53 durzo_blint9: that would depends on number of nodes between the head and the tail. 13:55:17 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.23.211] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:55:22 Kromitvs [~quassel@mcqueen.rnl.ist.utl.pt] has joined #lisp 13:55:45 (defvar *alaskan-malamute* '(head node node (leg leg leg) (leg leg leg) node node node (leg leg leg) (leg leg leg) node node node tail)) 13:56:01 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:56:15 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 13:56:32 Ha, I have no idea what that means... 13:56:55 This is a list: (head node node (leg leg leg) (leg leg leg) node node node (leg leg leg) (leg leg leg) node node node tail) 13:57:52 It can represend a dog with a head, four legs and a tail. node = vertebra. :-) 13:57:56 s/d/t/ 13:58:15 (length '(head node node (leg leg leg) (leg leg leg) node node node (leg leg leg) (leg leg leg) node node node tail)) --> 14 13:58:50 it's also a tree, since there are sublists. Walking the tree (ie. the dog) takes more time than just walking the length of the dog, since you have to recurse down the legs. 13:59:01 drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.23.211] has joined #lisp 13:59:10 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-24-60-1-249.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:59:39 When you walk a dog, the time spend will therefore depend both on its depth (length of its legs) and on its length (head to tail). 13:59:45 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-24-60-1-249.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:22 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:01:56 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 14:02:14 jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has joined #lisp 14:04:23 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-24-60-1-249.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:04:38 Ahright, thanks for clearing that up. 14:04:58 beingAwesome [~Thunderbi@106.76.95.69] has joined #lisp 14:06:37 pjb: A very impressive feat (feet?) of pedagogy. 14:07:24 :-) 14:07:27 The dog doesn't get much exercise from being walked though. 14:07:30 Needs work. 14:08:57 This is the bit where you do the lisp-don't-need-no-steekin'-visitor-pattern demo... 14:10:08 I'm seeing something odd here: http://paste.lisp.org/display/141513 . should I be intercepting the lambda-list in a different protocol function, or is this a legitimate bug? 14:13:59 -!- beingAwesome [~Thunderbi@106.76.95.69] has quit [Quit: beingAwesome] 14:15:30 DalekBaldwin: I don't understand what you're trying to do. You've added metalevel as a required argument to the lambda list of the GF, so why wouldn't you want to mention it in the defmethod? 14:16:35 it's for passing extra info behind the scenes 14:16:50 contextl does something similar 14:17:20 -!- r0b4 [~robert@subtle/contributor/robgleeson] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:18:22 -!- Kromitvs [~quassel@mcqueen.rnl.ist.utl.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:18:25 Does contextl use it's own macro for defining methods? That would be the easy way: define-stratified-method using defmethod internally 14:18:32 So why not wrap... yeah, that. 14:19:25 Kromitvs [~quassel@193.136.164.199] has joined #lisp 14:19:41 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:19:57 hm, yeah, looks like contextl calls ensure-generic-function and ensure-method directly 14:20:00 s/it's/its/ . Does minion still thwack? 14:20:34 minion: Thwap? 14:20:35 Thwap: THWAP! http://www.angryflower.com/bobsqu.gif and http://www.angryflower.com/itsits.gif (see also: http://www.unmutual.info/misc/sb_itsits.mp3 ) 14:20:49 Thanks. I needed that. 14:21:12 but it's rather odd that the parameters that actually appeared in the defgeneric form are purged from the lambda-list after the failed method addition 14:22:22 Yes, that IS odd-seeming... And that sort of thing is one of the reasons why I try to stay far, far away from any MOP hacking. 14:22:51 add^_ [~user@m176-70-197-33.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 14:23:11 j_king [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:05 -!- Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:25:23 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.23.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:25:23 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:32:44 -!- jdz [~jdz@212.36.34.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:35:13 -!- maxpeck [~maxpeck@unaffiliated/maxpeck] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 14:35:38 r0b4 [~robert@subtle/contributor/robgleeson] has joined #lisp 14:35:41 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 14:35:48 dilated_dinosaur [~ivan@2001:8b0:856:1:426c:8fff:fe59:7d0b] has joined #lisp 14:37:35 -!- InvalidCo [~invalidco@dsl-lhtbrasgw2-54f824-20.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: 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15:29:10 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 15:29:44 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:30:30 mgodshall [~mgodshall@8.20.30.249] has joined #lisp 15:30:47 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:19 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:32:22 -!- mgodshall [~mgodshall@8.20.30.249] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:32:38 -!- Denommus` is now known as Denommus 15:33:37 mgodshall [~mgodshall@8.20.30.249] has joined #lisp 15:33:43 keen__ [~blackened@p3b920f46.wmaxuq00.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:34:27 cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 15:34:35 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 15:36:47 Who wants to move beirc to git somewhere? 15:37:59 QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:57 Xach: to sharplispers ? 15:39:13 -!- drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:40:06 I wonder if anyone (slyrus? beach?) wants it directly? 15:40:44 There are still 21 CVS-using projects in quicklisp. I'd like to get that closer to zero. beirc is one. 15:40:57 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: patrickwonders] 15:44:41 ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 15:44:44 jangle [~jimmy1984@50.241.129.73] has joined #lisp 15:45:30 -!- LiamH [~none@129-2-129-19.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:45:34 sellout- [~Adium@161.98.10.96] has joined #lisp 15:46:18 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-210-247.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:52:47 Xach: you could just try to remove CVS support in Quicklisp and see what happens? 15:53:07 it would break at least 21 projects \o/ 15:54:05 QwertyDragon_ [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:25 -!- akbiggs [~akbiggs@64.215.161.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:54:46 -!- QwertyDragon_ [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:54:54 Alternately, take a final snapshot from CVS and then announce that you won't be updating them until they switch to another source control, and that if the snapshot breaks then they're getting removed as projects. 15:55:27 akbiggs [~akbiggs@64.215.161.70] has joined #lisp 15:55:50 None of them strike me as world-beating popular projects. 15:55:59 Does anyone know of a code hosting site that has good search? 15:56:01 Does github? 15:56:06 H4ns: sure, the interesting bits is, will there be enough pain for some people to maintain a fork on github (or elsewhere) for Quicklisp? 15:56:13 -!- rustico [~rustico@17-146-114-200.fibertel.com.ar] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 15:56:23 I guess some of them will move, some will have a fork, and none of that work should be done by Xach 15:56:51 It'd be awesome to have a quicklisp-software-collection git repo that has all the quicklisp software in one tree, updated each release. 15:56:53 foom: what kind of search? git grep or project discovery? 15:57:01 git grep or better 15:57:39 Github has code search, but I haven't found it to be particularly good 15:58:41 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@138.23.59.87] has joined #lisp 15:58:55 foom: I agree. good xref would be cool too. 15:59:13 Xof recently used ohloh (I think) for some code search. I've never tried. 16:00:15 mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 16:01:01 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-3-177.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 16:01:59 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@92.247.23.10] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 16:02:42 qiemem [uid14911@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aoueeouksfnaoqlu] has joined #lisp 16:04:06 Crystal30 [~Crystal30@93.114.45.59] has joined #lisp 16:05:07 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:05:20 -!- Crystal30 [~Crystal30@93.114.45.59] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:06:03 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-3-177.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:06:13 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-3-177.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 16:08:00 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:08:25 jewel [~jewel@105-236-210-247.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:11:52 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@241-130.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 16:12:25 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 16:13:33 http://kingjamesprogramming.tumblr.com/post/78432366709  doesnt even contain any Bible, but its true ;) 16:15:01 hahaha 16:15:24 Ayey_ 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19:08:29 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@lns-sfr-5-48-246-200.dsl.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 269 seconds] 19:09:59 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 19:10:22 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DD14FC6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:13:10 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-22-94-191.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:21:56 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: happening lost by death] 19:25:37 -!- sword [~sword@c-24-21-123-136.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:25:51 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:22 da4c30ff__ [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has joined #lisp 19:26:24 mccarthypneustos 19:27:12 -!- bocaneri [~bocaneri_@about/linux/staff/sauvin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:29:39 is slime-trace-dialog supposed to work under emacs 23.* ? 19:29:39 arenz [~arenz@37.17.234.254] has joined #lisp 19:30:25 -!- da4c30ff__ [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:30:58 varjag_ [uid4973@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kjcgjcrayrzfqmme] has joined #lisp 19:30:59 -!- Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 19:31:53 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 19:32:23 Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 19:34:19 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-165-68.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:34:21 gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:30 cheryllium [~chatzilla@128.237.220.14] has joined #lisp 19:38:28 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-194-73-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:38:29 -!- akbiggs [~akbiggs@64.215.161.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:42:27 good morning all 19:42:35 CSS is hard. why can't CSS be more like Lisp? 19:44:32 generate css from lisp, ..., profit? 19:44:32 Working is hard. Why can't working be more like goofing off? 19:45:10 -!- nisstyre [yourstruly@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 19:45:44 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:46:10 -!- slarti [~anonymous@ip-64-134-28-200.public.wayport.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:46:33 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:47:12 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:33 slarti [~anonymous@ip-64-134-28-200.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 19:48:05 nand1 [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:57 -!- MusangKing [~CatMtKing@ucrwpa1-fs-33-62.bulk.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:50:44 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 19:52:33 -!- k-stz [~user@HSI-KBW-095-208-250-040.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:52:54 newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has joined #lisp 19:53:54 -!- Validus [~Anonymous@81.109.184.206] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:54:05 Validus [~Anonymous@cpc9-walt14-2-0-cust205.13-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:24 -!- sellout- [~Adium@161.98.10.96] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:56:00 -!- fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:56:04 slyrus [~chatzilla@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:28 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 19:56:33 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:56:38 cheryllium: program lisp to generate css automatically! Don't write css yourself! 19:57:42 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 19:58:18 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-015-111.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:58:23 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:59:06 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Client Quit] 19:59:08 Trenif [~Lefeni@c-7149e555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:59:18 -!- arenz [~arenz@37.17.234.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:59:46 fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 20:00:27 seangrov` [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:01:11 Now, if only CSS were hard because of syntax rather than semantics. /-: 20:01:24 jayne_ [~jayne@freenode/staff/jayne] has joined #lisp 20:02:18 mindCrime_ [~prhodes@rrcs-98-101-159-194.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:02:39 nyef: write a reasoner for CSS in Lisp? :) 20:02:47 other_nick-37 [~quassel@mcqueen.rnl.ist.utl.pt] has joined #lisp 20:03:08 yeah, adding a layer of indirection when you have problems with semantics... not a good idea 20:03:17 In our copious spare time, of course? 20:03:26 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:03:26 |3b|` [bbb@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:5b65] has joined #lisp 20:03:27 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:03:28 -!- Pullphinger [~Pullphing@12.40.23.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:03:28 -!- jayne [~jayne@freenode/staff/jayne] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:03:28 -!- sshirokov [sshirokov@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:03:28 -!- mindCrime [~prhodes@rrcs-98-101-159-194.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:03:29 -!- Lefeni [~Lefeni@c-7149e555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:03:29 -!- Kromitvs [~quassel@193.136.164.199] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 20:03:29 ialokin [~ialokin@194.1.184.13] has joined #lisp 20:03:29 -!- mordocai [mordocai@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe70:b749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:03:29 mordocai [mordocai@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe70:b749] has joined #lisp 20:03:30 sshirokov [sshirokov@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has joined #lisp 20:03:30 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 20:03:53 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:04:10 dim: but lisp is a magic wand you can wave and make everything perfect and better 20:04:14 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 20:04:22 dim: that's why we don't write compilers, but directly in assembler. 20:04:23 dim: in this case it would be more of a tool that encapsulated the semantics and could possibly warn you of things or allow you to trace the rules 20:04:39 pjb: assembler? you jest, binary code! 20:04:50 so how would lisp semantics help improving css? the idea was that it's supposed to be declarative anyway, no? 20:04:51 -!- |3b| [bbb@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:5b65] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:05:07 Betty19 [~Betty19@93.114.45.133] has joined #lisp 20:05:25 -!- Betty19 [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has been kicked from #lisp by p_l (Betty19) 20:05:37 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:05:49 ferada: you would use lisp to write a compiler of a high level language to css. So you wouldn't have to write css, and deal with its bizantine semantics, but you'd declare the style at a higher level. 20:05:58 ferada: more like you'd write a program in Lisp that would provide you a compiler and simulator for CSS semantics 20:06:12 the problem is always figuring out which incantation you need to make the browser do what you want, and nothing about syntax helps there even slightly 20:06:26 you might as well say "well it's lisp, write an AI to figure it out, because lisp" 20:06:59 Where lisp helps, is that in writing compilers, you can reuse lisp machinerie. No need for a scanner or parser, just use CL:READ, no need for a code generator, just use CL:COMPILE, etc. 20:07:20 how is "a compiler" in any way relevant 20:07:43 the only thing that can fix CSS is the backspace key 20:07:48 A compiler is a tool that transforms something from one language/semantic level to another language/semantic level. 20:08:08 If you thing CSS semantics are broken, then just design a non-broken language, and write a compiler to translate from it to CSS. 20:08:13 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 20:08:16 that is not even slightly the case 20:08:27 ix86 is entirely broken. But we don't care because we have compilers. 20:08:48 pjb: how are you going to implement anything that spits out css if you don't understand css in the first place?! 20:09:07 I didn't say that you needn't understand it. 20:09:09 sometime the problem has nothing to do with the tooling... 20:09:12 the "hard" part is about phrasing what is a visual intent into something wrong (CSS) 20:09:58 so, are there any templates for a sane styling system? 20:10:01 there is not language to start with, nothing to compile, nor is the declarative wrongness hard to write 20:10:24 ferada: depends, there's like cl-typesetting, but i'm not sure how that works .. probably not what you want for the web though heh 20:10:47 cl-typesetting is awful 20:10:49 not really, no 20:11:13 hdon2 [~IceChat9@nv-71-49-134-62.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:24 in theory you could come up with a frame-based layout system that outputted CSS, but at no point do you need an intermediate lispy syntax for CSS 20:11:27 stassats: ah too bad 20:11:59 hi all :) i've been reading a little bit about lisp as research for a particular project and i'm wondering if anyone would like to engage me in a discussion about lisp's capabilities 20:12:14 lisp is capable. 20:12:17 lisp is omnicapable 20:13:07 well my needs are unique, hence why i'm looking at programming languages i haven't used before. in particular i am interested in lisp's capability to represent code as data, which it seems to emphasize much more than any other language i've used 20:13:13 -!- ialokin [~ialokin@194.1.184.13] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:13:28 hdon2: indeed, lisp code is data. 20:13:38 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 20:13:48 (second '(if (= a 1) 'one 'not-one)) --> (= a 1) 20:13:50 pjb, that sounds good :) 20:14:01 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Client Quit] 20:14:11 Gustavo [~canaima@201.211.112.110] has joined #lisp 20:14:59 slarti_ [~anonymous@ip-64-134-28-200.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:33 -!- Gustavo [~canaima@201.211.112.110] has left #lisp 20:15:34 -!- slarti [~anonymous@ip-64-134-28-200.public.wayport.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 20:15:35 -!- slarti_ is now known as slarti 20:15:44 cabaire [~nobody@p5DCD313F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:15:45 my project is related to computer algebra systems. i would like to be able to construct a simple calculus describing basic arithmetic operations, but 20:16:34 -!- mordocai [mordocai@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe70:b749] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:16:46 mordocai` [mordocai@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe70:b749] has joined #lisp 20:16:51 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 20:16:56 -!- qiemem [uid14911@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-aoueeouksfnaoqlu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:16:56 -!- ktx [~ktx@unaffiliated/ktx] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:17:25 -!- varjag_ [uid4973@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kjcgjcrayrzfqmme] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:17:39 -!- mordocai` [mordocai@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe70:b749] has quit [Client Quit] 20:17:49 the ultimate application would need to define a great number of functions which interdepend on each other, and then to simplify it as much as possible, and finally producing a description of a state machine 20:17:54 -!- sbryant [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:18:04 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@128.120.118.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:18:10 i'll try to mock up an example of what i mean... 20:18:48 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-75-250-45.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:18:52 -!- xristos [x@ns3.suspicious.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:18:58 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@67.136.175.194] has joined #lisp 20:19:21 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:19:21 ktx [~ktx@unaffiliated/ktx] has joined #lisp 20:19:28 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 20:19:30 qiemem [uid14911@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-agcofgcsimzetkqa] has joined #lisp 20:19:36 varjag_ [uid4973@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ubjpdoqxoaplkonw] has joined #lisp 20:19:47 sbryant [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has joined #lisp 20:19:52 -!- ggole [~ggole@106-68-78-97.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 20:20:03 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:21:07 xristos [x@ns3.suspicious.org] has joined #lisp 20:21:08 -!- xristos is now known as Guest25800 20:21:32 ck`` [~user@aftr-37-24-151-117.unity-media.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:34 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-228-238-224.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Quit: Harag] 20:22:10 Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-228-238-224.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:23:08 -!- Guest25800 is now known as xristos` 20:24:19 carro [~carro@h96-61-127-34.bdvlnc.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:52 ferada: quoting from the manual, ``The SLIME Trace Dialog [...] is an Emacs 24-only contrib.'' 20:25:30 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 20:25:41 ck``: -.- still an error message would be nice 20:26:06 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 20:26:29 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-210-247.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:26:46 agreed 20:28:29 -!- dandersen [~user@unaffiliated/dandersen] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:28:59 dandersen [~user@unaffiliated/dandersen] has joined #lisp 20:31:09 antonv [~user@93.171.161.176] has joined #lisp 20:31:13 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:31:58 -!- angavrilov_ [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:32:08 http://mathpaste.com/cax0u0yqvwg8 <-- this is my example 20:32:18 -!- carro [~carro@h96-61-127-34.bdvlnc.dsl.dynamic.tds.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:32:24 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:32:32 in that example x is unknown and i want to simplify f sub a 20:33:03 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:00 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:34:01 sorry this example contains a serious mistake 20:34:02 ASau [~user@46.115.48.210] has joined #lisp 20:35:55 nug700 [~nug700@71-223-10-69.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:12 here is a better example: http://mathpaste.com/cax3ypmagmiw 20:36:57 sellout- [~Adium@173-164-61-149-colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:06 when i began work on this problem i wrote a small testbed that could manipulate lists by performing expression substitution based on the equations of symbolic logic and basic arithmetic 20:39:01 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 20:39:31 here is a link to that testbed where it is stalled in development http://codebad.com/~hdon/maph/test.html 20:39:45 the "Equations" window on the right-hand side doesn't function really 20:40:13 if you press "x" and then "c" you can see with each keystroke a new version of the same expression 20:40:31 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 20:42:59 expressions can be either a function identifier (such as the arithmetic operator "+" or the logic operator "^" or the "c" function, which is simple but isn't described in the interface, not can be found, per se, in the source code) 20:43:34 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 20:43:55 the "sxc" command will expand instances of the "c" function using a hard-coded function which substitutes the right-hand side of the equation defining the function, but again, the software doesn't support equations as the basis of substitutions, instead i had to hard-code the functions to perform each type of substitution 20:44:39 the "sce" command will simplify some expressions such as (+, 20, 1) into 21 20:44:43 chadhs [~chadhs@66.195.151.70] has joined #lisp 20:44:56 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:45:46 wow sorry when i was explaining what expressions were i totally didn't finish my sentence... an expression can either be a function identifier, a numeric constant, or a list of comma-separated expressions encloesd in parenthesis 20:46:03 so maybe this all explains what i hope to do...? 20:46:23 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:46:55 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@241-130.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:47:46 Davidbrcz_ [~david@i16-les03-th2-5-48-246-200.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 20:48:46 my trouble, which i assume a real mathematician would not have a hard time with, comes from wanting to be able to describe to an application what operators and functions are, by simply entering in equations which demonstrate those properties. i quickly found myself unable to solve simple problems like, how to describe a variadic arithmetic operator (the "+" operator in the testbed i linked to supports any number of arguments, for example) 20:49:30 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 20:49:37 the alternative to variadic operators and functions is to risk extremely deep expression trees, and i have a feeling i want to avoid that if i can 20:50:21 hdon2: i have no idea, i'm definitely not a math person .. you can probably do it in CL, though there may be other languages already suited toward such things 20:50:33 hmm 20:50:47 vague and unhelpful, but "doing things with syntax" is pretty easy in CL, at least 20:51:40 does CL enforce pure functional programming? 20:51:59 no, it's not a functional language, though you can program functionally 20:52:15 oh... that really reverses my previous impression of CL 20:52:19 hmm... 20:52:50 CL is "it's not a language, it's a language you can use with" language 20:52:51 hdon2: I have only skimmed your statements, but: do you know about rrl? 20:53:04 ck``, no i don't. what is that? 20:53:45 -!- dandersen [~user@unaffiliated/dandersen] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:54:04 and i don't blame you for only skimming.. my explanation is rather poor and very long 20:54:24 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:54:34 dandersen [~user@unaffiliated/dandersen] has joined #lisp 20:55:02 hdon2: short for "rewrite rule laboratory", an academic cl system for, well, rewriting rules 20:55:49 i'm intrigued... what is a "rule" in CL? 20:56:34 whatever that system defines "rule" as 20:56:57 I will google RRL to try and see what I can grok about it.. 20:57:04 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.245] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:57:16 yes, that's not a cl term 20:57:25 ugh... no postscript viewer on this windows machine 20:57:30 slarti_ [~anonymous@ip-64-134-28-200.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:41 hdon2, ugh, a windows machine 20:57:51 throw in "term rewriting" and maybe "semantics" 20:58:32 slarti__ [~anonymous@63-255-66-234.ip.mcleodusa.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:29 i dislike being unable to access all these academic libraries... i guess i really understand the ecosystem that it supports 20:59:51 semantically windows term rewriting 20:59:55 i suppose i'll hop on over to my desktop to view the postscript file 21:00:08 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 21:00:10 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:00:58 -!- slarti [~anonymous@ip-64-134-28-200.public.wayport.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:00:58 -!- slarti__ is now known as slarti 21:00:59 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 21:01:14 hdon [~donny@nv-71-49-134-62.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:02 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:02 Hey lispers - I'm finding that my function names get really long when writing Common Lisp code - like "analysis-housekeeping-class-contains-smart-pointers-p" long. I'm starting to use SYMBOL-MACROLET in my functions to tighten up the code a little - is that good practice? 21:02:22 -!- slarti_ [~anonymous@ip-64-134-28-200.public.wayport.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:02:25 possibly 21:02:25 for renaming functions?! 21:02:30 RRL sounds fascinating 21:02:42 (giving temporary names that is) 21:02:46 or you can use smaller packages 21:02:58 oGMo: No, more for creating symbol-macros for accessors. 21:03:06 drmeiste_, the faslpath / quick-build / asdf-package-system style is great 21:03:08 embrace it! 21:03:10 drmeiste_: No. 21:03:14 Actually - always for creating symbol-macros for accessors 21:03:26 Xach: Why not? 21:03:29 -!- drmeiste_ is now known as drmeister 21:03:32 drmeiste_: that didn't look like an accessor .. 21:03:35 quux has a with-prefixed-accessors macro, that could help 21:03:37 drmeiste_: break out a thesaurus 21:03:43 no with-slots or with-something? 21:03:44 drmeister: If there's a shorter appropriate name, use the shorter name instead of a longer name. 21:03:55 (symbol-macrolet ((table (analysis-local-variables-with-smart-pointers-on-heap analysis))) 21:04:00 concise like with-slots, but actually using accessors 21:04:02 that thing can be renamed to contains-smart-pointers-p 21:04:16 like with-accessors 21:04:21 or even, smart-pointers-p 21:04:23 -!- hdon2 [~IceChat9@nv-71-49-134-62.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:05:30 Oh, I see. That's what with-accessors does. 21:05:39 lil has a with-interface to avoid syntactically needing to pass interfaces around. 21:06:07 if all your accessors have prefixes, with-prefixed-accessors is good. 21:07:21 -!- chris_l [~quassel@p5499D154.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:07:44 Fare: does that also belong to lil? 21:07:51 WITH-ACCESSORS, WITH-SLOTS - what's the dealio? They seem very similar. Is one for structures and the other for classes? 21:08:14 with-accessors use the methods. 21:08:16 -!- cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [] 21:08:31 Ah - got it. 21:09:34 antoszka, no, with-prefixed-accessors was in quux. 21:10:05 someone needs to extract the code in the quux tarball and move it to a real library 21:10:22 ah 21:10:29 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:10:35 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:11:27 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 21:12:44 Alfr [~Unknown@f052049243.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:13:09 oh nice, the qres code base experiences memory corruption when upgraded from ccl 1.8 to ccl 1.9 or 1.10... sigh. 21:13:09 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 21:13:13 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@67.136.175.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:14:06 -!- ThePhoeron [~thephoero@CPE68b6fcc5ca13-CM68b6fcc5ca10.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:14:42 -!- Alfr [~Unknown@f052049243.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 21:15:29 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@155-223.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 21:16:02 Acceptable or abomination? Feedback invited. https://gist.github.com/dr-meister/a19f3fc7ecd87f14b2bc 21:16:57 ThePhoeron [~thephoero@CPE68b6fcc5ca13-CM68b6fcc5ca10.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:17:32 drmeister: You could just use "let" 21:17:51 If you're grabbing a mutable object from something, you don't need to use macrolet or accessors. 21:18:04 Altering the object alters it wherever it lives. 21:19:13 Xach: But my "Use a feature of Common Lisp a day" calendar said: "Try symbol macros"! 21:19:23 Xach: I hear you. Simple = better 21:19:37 -!- sdemarre [~serge@110.81-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:19:47 drmeister: let me know when you get to nreconc because I'm looking for a use, too 21:19:47 drmeister: What are you going to do when the calendar says "use long-form define-method-combination"? 21:20:28 nyef: That only comes up in leap years. 21:20:32 -!- juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has quit [Quit: juanlas] 21:21:28 -!- dandersen [~user@unaffiliated/dandersen] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22:06 Xach: isn't there an erik naggum post about just that? him looking for a use for nreconc I mean 21:22:07 dandersen [~user@unaffiliated/dandersen] has joined #lisp 21:22:11 Hey has anyone heard of the old Common Lisp implementation (It may have been the Japanese one) that used "fork" for multithreading and then used some sort of passing S-expressions between the parent and child to update the parent? 21:22:11 nreconc is unreconciable 21:22:33 Xach: I'm pretty sure I found it through your index 21:22:49 ck``: yes, the SANS post 21:22:55 ah, right 21:23:08 I ask because I don't have threading at the moment and I'm using "fork" to do parallel processing. I also have serialization code that serializes _everything_ (including hash-tables). 21:23:22 http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3247672165664225%40naggum.no.html 21:24:42 My question about it is - what exactly did they pass from the child process to the parent process? "setq"s of global variables? 21:25:51 I'll implement threading the proper way - but I'm curious. 21:27:18 da4c30ff__ [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has joined #lisp 21:28:41 how did they pass the data back to the parent process drmeister ? 21:29:46 shared memory? 21:30:16 Passing data between processes is doable in many ways; what is being passed seems the more interesting question. 21:31:24 funny, I find the opposite. "returning data formats between process is doable in many ways, how it's being passed seems the more interesting question" :) 21:31:47 could be serialized objects, could be a mini-DSL RPC, could be deltas, could be all sorts of things. 21:31:51 -!- da4c30ff__ [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:32:13 -!- cabaire [~nobody@p5DCD313F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:32:55 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-194-73-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 21:33:33 I would call all of those things "what is being passed" 21:34:59 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-228-238-224.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:35:32 but also there are things like, what happens when you set a global variable to a closure? 21:35:54 juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has joined #lisp 21:36:27 -!- slarti [~anonymous@63-255-66-234.ip.mcleodusa.net] has quit [Quit: slarti] 21:38:42 the same thing that happens when you set it to a local variable -- only, globally  what does it matter if it's a global or not? 21:39:16 because you need to share it between processes (still talking abou drmeister's question) 21:39:49 nothing would happen 21:40:33 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:40:34 there is no "global" that's 'shared' among forked processes. I doubt that the shared memory (if they're using that) is actually "active" memory, rather anything stored in there would be passive. 21:40:45 there would have to be some sort of policy for what to do when there's a possibility of shared mutable state 21:40:53 either there are handles which propagate changes, or you get a copy 21:41:08 I don't know what or how they passed information to the parent. I read about this a couple of years ago. My memory was jogged when I realized I currently face a similar situation 21:41:20 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 21:42:02 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:42:54 I imagine they passed back values (strings, binary numbers, etc) rather than "active lisp objects" 21:43:17 It might have been an early version of Kyoto Common Lisp? 21:44:02 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 21:45:14 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-tlzbzkidjddegbhr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:45:50 pnpuff [~M23C6@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 21:46:01 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:46:22 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.171.127.200] has joined #lisp 21:46:39 -!- pnpuff [~M23C6@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 21:47:14 funny, my feature-a-day calendar finally said "use long-form define-method-combination" yesterday :) 21:49:10 I would have checked it out sooner but for some reason it's not really covered in AMOP. I guess they were still finalizing that part of the protocol before publication 21:50:17 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:50:55 -!- jayne_ is now known as jayne 21:51:02 amop doesn't touch method combos at all. bit weird but it still works 21:51:32 they're a lot more powerful than I imagined 21:51:58 -!- gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gendl] 21:52:23 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:53:20 I thought they were just for helping support programs from older lisp OO systems with quirky specialization semantics 21:53:25 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 21:53:58 slarti [~anonymous@63-255-66-234.ip.mcleodusa.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:42 i usually think of an easier way of doing things half way into figuring how to apply method combinations 21:57:44 mordocai [mordocai@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe70:b749] has joined #lisp 21:58:04 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@128.120.119.98] has joined #lisp 21:59:22 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Quit: going home] 21:59:45 cdidd [~cdidd@128-75-240-10.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 22:00:34 So, I use C++ exception handling and C++ classes to implement THROW and RETURN-FROM when they span function boundaries. Both of these exception classes need to store one or more Common Lisp objects until they are caught. 22:00:44 -!- Acherontius [~user@204.116.186.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:07 Question: Does the garbage collector need to be aware of these objects between when they are thrown and caught? 22:01:41 I'm musing aloud in case anyone has thoughts on this. I guess it depends if garbage collection can take place between an exception being thrown and caught. 22:02:02 That would be the defining characteristic 22:02:27 Also, consider cleanup of the stack as it's unrolled, and how that plays into holding on to elements 22:02:46 Cleanup of the stack is taken care of. 22:02:55 however, it's obviously not guaranteed that the exception parameter exists on the stack, so it would be a separate issue to ensure GC consistency 22:03:08 The garbage collector scans the stack conservatively and the heap precisely. 22:03:39 -!- mgodshall [~mgodshall@8.20.30.249] has quit [Quit: mgodshall] 22:03:51 Yeah - I couldn't get an answer from the Clang people on where exception objects are stored. 22:04:31 I didn't really try though - I just popped the question on #llvm - if no one was around who knew at the time then... 22:05:21 -!- add^_ [~user@m176-70-197-33.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:06:36 I know that Windows also has some expected mechanism by which exceptions should occur in order to fall back to OS catchers gracefully, so it might also not be 100% determined by the compiler. I don't know what Linux's standards are for that. 22:08:34 I've written this awesome (if I do say so myself) C++ static analyzer/code generator that analyzes my 164 source file C++ code for the Common Lisp system. These exception classes are the last C++ classes that the analyzer is complaining about containing smart-pointers while being invisible to the GC. Once I fix this I can do the smoke test of the GC. 22:08:51 -!- sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:09:58 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-194-73-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:10:05 KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9DDAD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:10:22 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:11:07 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-194-73-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 22:12:08 gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:44 -!- gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:14:24 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 22:14:25 -!- ikki [~ikki@fixed-203-218-27.iusacell.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:16:50 nisstyre [yourstruly@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 22:16:54 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:16:59 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:18:46 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 22:20:03 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:20:58 -!- doomlord_ [~servitor@host86-184-9-184.range86-184.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:25:29 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:25:40 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 22:26:03 doomlord_ [~servitor@host86-184-9-184.range86-184.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:30:45 -!- xani [~user@178.183.147.101.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:27 -!- ck`` [~user@aftr-37-24-151-117.unity-media.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.1] 22:31:43 zickzackv [~faot@p5DDB0002.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:32:00 -!- juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has quit [Quit: juanlas] 22:34:56 juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has joined #lisp 22:35:33 -!- nisstyre [yourstruly@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 22:36:00 nisstyre [~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 22:40:29 RenJuan [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:41:41 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:42:08 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 22:44:51 yrk [~user@c-71-235-189-64.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:13 -!- yrk [~user@c-71-235-189-64.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:45:13 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 22:46:22 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:46:29 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@i16-les03-th2-5-48-246-200.sfr.lns.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:46:52 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:48:11 -!- drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:49:44 Crap: I have the most expensive GO special operator in the world. 22:50:06 It throws a C++ exception and links/unlinks itself from a doubly linked list. 22:50:19 I really, really need to fix that. 22:52:26 "Lisp users know the value of everything, and the cost of nothing" 22:53:12 *drmeister* didn't come up with that - I read it somewhere 22:53:37 drmeister: Were well aware ;) 22:55:50 *drmeister* -> train 22:55:54 -!- |3b|` is now known as |3b| 22:56:07 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:16 zygentoma [~kvirc@dslb-092-077-070-093.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 22:58:03 -!- wgreenhouse [~wgreenhou@fsf/member/wgreenhouse] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:16 it gets points for originality 23:00:25 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:00:32 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 23:00:59 It's also very premature-optimization minded 23:01:01 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5058:2f10:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 23:01:13 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:01:21 I prefer being able to do greater things, than be limited to doing simple things quickly 23:01:23 refrijerator [b2805298@gateway/web/freenode/ip.178.128.82.152] has joined #lisp 23:02:00 wgreenhouse [~wgreenhou@fsf/member/wgreenhouse] has joined #lisp 23:03:47 drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:59 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@50.241.129.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:05:17 what would be the simplest way to get all even elements from a plist, say (:a 'a :b 'b) -> ('a 'b)? some library function? 23:05:38 (loop for (nil b) on plist by #'cdr collect b) 23:05:43 #'cddr 23:05:59 -!- Joreji [~thomas@155-223.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:08:10 what a coincidence, nreconc came up today too 23:08:26 ikki [~ikki@fixed-203-218-211.iusacell.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:46 stassats: thank you (this does not look simplest to me but I am only a beginner) 23:09:31 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-91-224.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:09:31 refrijerator: the task required manual iteration; "loop" is one of the most compact way of performing a custom iteration 23:09:45 even if it is effectively its own sub-language 23:10:14 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 23:11:13 -!- chadhs [~chadhs@66.195.151.70] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 23:11:16 White_Flame: I was thinking more in the spirit of filtering all odd elements away using some predefined function 23:11:20 and it will perform properly if the list's length is odd, which would be a wrinkle in most other language 23:11:32 (let ((x t)) (remove-if (lambda (i) (shiftf x (not x))) '(a 1 c 2))) => (1 2) 23:11:35 -!- emma_ is now known as emma 23:11:47 "odd" isn't part of a data element, so there's nothing there to filter by 23:11:52 -!- sellout- [~Adium@173-164-61-149-colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:16:31 stassats: I did not even known shiftf existed, thanks again 23:18:53 Jayk97 [~quassel@50.13.169.64] has joined #lisp 23:21:17 -!- KCL [~quassel@50.13.169.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:22:16 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 23:23:13 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:24:57 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25:33 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 23:27:14 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:27:46 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 23:28:08 da4c30ff__ [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has joined #lisp 23:30:09 ebrasca [~chatzilla@host-198.58.elzappero.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:18 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:32:35 -!- da4c30ff__ [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:34:23 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 23:35:57 -!- Malice_ [~Malice@94-229-220-135.static.espol.com.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:37:31 -!- fridim_ [~fridim@173.231.115.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:39:58 Ethan- [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:23 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.192.74] has joined #lisp 23:44:30 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:46:49 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:47:13 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-194-73-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:48:08 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-91-224.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 23:49:44 bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #lisp 23:52:59 -!- effy [~x@222.131.153.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:53:03 -!- Validus [~Anonymous@cpc9-walt14-2-0-cust205.13-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:54:24 effy [~x@222.131.153.216] has joined #lisp 23:54:35 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-91-224.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:57:22 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-75-240-10.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]