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cjwelborn cods cyphase ahungry_ ggherdov _schulte_ zymurgy _death cmbntr_ clog InvalidCo __main__ hpd aftersha_ axion saarin spacebat H4ns hugod mal_ mathrick schoppenhauer ivan4th` jackdaniel vyv_ tomaw z0d clop setheus aerique quasisane pok jsnell akersof epsylon eagleflo guaqua arbscht daimrod sjl ec housel oGMo Subfusc sytse iwilcox j0ni PuercoPop theBlackDragon froggey karupanerura cibs nightshade427 mood phadthai kbtr smull __class__ musicalchair 00:40:47 -!- names: enn jasom yeltzooo Kabaka_ vert2 freiksenet wormphlegm rvncerr redline6561 j_king tessier zbigniew yroeht2 dfox ineiros joast sfa nuba nicdev Nshag TristamWrk tychoish faheem Ober Fade Anarch minion ivan ivan\ @p_l hzp lupine Adeon jonh otwieracz Borbus ircbrowse joshe ``Erik cmatei ferada tvaalen joga abbe Munksgaard fnordbert copec heddwch newcup wilfredh DrForr gko m00n sshirokov ConstantineXVI sbryant xristos Zhivago |3b| clop2 oconnore hypno_ 00:40:47 -!- names: Khisanth ered 00:41:03 fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 00:42:59 -!- ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:44:18 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:44:32 ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 00:46:19 -!- ejbs [~user@h82-117-106-93.dynamic.se.alltele.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:47:38 -!- davazp [~user@167.Red-88-15-120.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:48:49 -!- akbiggs [~akbiggs@bas3-toronto02-1279464442.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:49:04 funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has joined #lisp 00:50:44 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:52:31 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-ewbyycxrvrweosxv] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:55:50 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:57:29 -!- effy [~x@222.129.238.232] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:58:22 zophy [~sy@host-98-218-220-24.midco.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:38 -!- fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:58:55 nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:59:58 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:00:41 -!- kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:00:43 mrhooray [~textual@c-98-210-11-93.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:41 -!- mrhooray [~textual@c-98-210-11-93.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:02:50 mrhooray [~textual@c-98-210-11-93.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:58 -!- zophy [~sy@host-98-218-220-24.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:03:08 fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 01:03:47 kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 01:04:29 Fare [s2BsaA23@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:04:36 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 01:04:49 -!- mrhooray [~textual@c-98-210-11-93.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:08:06 ebrasca [~chatzilla@host-198.58.elzappero.net] has joined #lisp 01:08:52 i understand why me test-+ not fount 01:09:04 (defun report-result (result form) 01:09:06 (format t "~:[FAILL~;pass~]...~a:~a~%" result *test-name* form) 01:09:07 result) 01:09:09 (defmacro combine-results (&body forms) 01:09:10 (let ((result (gensym))) 01:09:12 `(let ((,result t)) 01:09:13 ,@(loop for form in forms collect `(unless ,form(setf ,result nil))) 01:09:15 ,result))) 01:09:16 (defmacro check (&body forms) 01:09:18 `(combine-results 01:09:19 ,@(loop for form in forms collect `(report-result ,form ',form)))) 01:09:21 (defun test-+ () 01:09:22 (flet ((*test-name* 'test-+)) 01:09:24 (check 01:09:25 (= (+ 1 2) 3) 01:09:26 dude, pastie... 01:09:27 ebrasca: use paste.lisp.org 01:09:27 (= (+ 1 2 3) 6) 01:09:28 (= (+ 1 2 3 4) 10)))) 01:09:30 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xach 01:09:45 bicgena [uid11626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pifcytxpdvkgtfbv] has joined #lisp 01:10:05 i must create acount? 01:10:08 no 01:10:11 -!- Xach has set mode -o Xach 01:11:04 -!- bicgena [uid11626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pifcytxpdvkgtfbv] has quit [Client Quit] 01:13:36 uff 01:13:40 http://paste.lisp.org/display/141487 01:13:56 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:14:44 bicgena [uid11626@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fbrvljvgqwsrxiyf] has joined #lisp 01:14:49 does not work I test-+ 01:15:34 I do not understand why 01:16:02 Natch [~Natch@c-58cfe155.25-4-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 01:16:59 -!- Validus [~Anonymous@cpc9-walt14-2-0-cust205.13-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:17:22 Validus [~Anonymous@cpc9-walt14-2-0-cust205.13-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 01:18:13 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p578FCBA4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:20:46 Xach:thx for you interest 01:21:29 -!- Validus [~Anonymous@cpc9-walt14-2-0-cust205.13-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:22:16 Validus [~Anonymous@cpc9-walt14-2-0-cust205.13-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 01:24:19 ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:25:52 they will help or not 01:26:10 I have bad English 01:26:29 ebasca: leave the paste here and be patient. I'm sure someone is slowly working through it right now 01:26:56 sometimes it can take a bit of time to receive a reply 01:27:28 sellout- [~Adium@173-164-61-149-colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:17 harish_ [harish@nat/redhat/x-xctzwpsofbnpxjlf] has joined #lisp 01:28:55 if I go for some reason nothing happens? 01:30:26 ebrasca: First, you didn't (defvar *test-name*). Second, in test-+ you FLET it rather than LET it. 01:32:44 -!- JuanitoJons [~jreynoso@fixed-203-69-5.iusacell.net] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 01:33:45 -!- Validus [~Anonymous@cpc9-walt14-2-0-cust205.13-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:35:20 sohail [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 01:35:20 -!- sohail [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 01:35:20 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 01:35:55 nyef:Thx for help. 01:37:10 -!- Mathieu [mlegrand@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fedf:caf4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:40:20 -!- ebrasca [~chatzilla@host-198.58.elzappero.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 24.0/20131118140013]] 01:41:53 -!- cory786 [~cory@75.22.101.128] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:42:07 Mathieu [mlegrand@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fedf:caf4] has joined #lisp 01:42:08 Validus [~Anonymous@cpc9-walt14-2-0-cust205.13-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 01:48:28 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:50:23 -!- nffff [~nffff@c-50-183-123-25.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:51:12 -!- ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:51:31 da4c30ff [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has joined #lisp 01:55:05 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:55:37 -!- da4c30ff [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:55:43 unitoad [~user@ip72-198-206-251.om.om.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:59 -!- fridim__ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317685.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:57:31 bgs100 [~bgs@h113.117.187.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 01:57:38 -!- bgs100 [~bgs@h113.117.187.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:57:38 bgs100 [~bgs@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 01:58:59 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 01:59:21 francis_wolke [4441a942@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.68.65.169.66] has joined #lisp 02:00:39 -!- MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 02:02:04 patbarron [~pat@pool-173-75-28-121.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:47 -!- Validus [~Anonymous@cpc9-walt14-2-0-cust205.13-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:04:59 -!- Fare [s2BsaA23@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:08:49 -!- francis_wolke [4441a942@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.68.65.169.66] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 02:09:37 -!- patbarron [~pat@pool-173-75-28-121.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:09:55 fridim__ [~fridim@65.93.77.146] has joined #lisp 02:10:01 patbarron [~pat@pool-173-75-28-121.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:36 sohail [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 02:10:36 -!- sohail [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 02:10:36 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 02:17:21 -!- nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: peace out] 02:18:06 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-qfuahiftjukczomg] has joined #lisp 02:23:05 waa [~waa@189-31-214-4.ctame700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 02:24:13 knob [~knob@66-50-179-148.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:37 jangle [~jimmy1984@pool-108-15-111-28.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:25:01 -!- sellout- [~Adium@173-164-61-149-colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:25:28 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.67.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:30:56 frkout_ [~frkout@101.110.31.120] has joined #lisp 02:31:17 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.67.185] has joined #lisp 02:31:42 -!- percopal [~percopal@63.65.76.38] has quit [Quit: percopal] 02:32:53 metatrontech [~chris@139.195.239.110] has joined #lisp 02:34:29 -!- frkout [~frkout@101.110.31.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:35:06 seangrove [~user@2600:1010:b011:2a57:454b:5c64:dd83:e3eb] has joined #lisp 02:35:39 akbiggs [~akbiggs@user3-202-135.wireless.utoronto.ca] has joined #lisp 02:38:38 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:38:56 prxq_ [~mommer@x2f6b75e.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lisp 02:39:12 -!- knob [~knob@66-50-179-148.prtc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:40:53 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 02:42:25 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:42:28 p_nathan [~Adium@108.60.118.130] has joined #lisp 02:42:29 -!- prxq [~mommer@x2f6cbcf.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:47:20 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:51:25 where is my .emacs file? I am in ~, I did ls -a and I only see a file named .emacs.d 02:53:39 cheryllium: .emacs is either ~/.emacs.el or ~/.emacs.d/init.el but #emacs is a better place for those questions. 02:53:50 thank you 02:53:56 skyLibrary [uid14629@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-muylyrgiqlkrfslt] has joined #lisp 02:55:15 aluuu [~aluuu@77.242.110.178] has joined #lisp 02:55:53 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 02:56:19 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:49 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:58:01 nipra [~nipra@122.177.158.226] has joined #lisp 03:00:42 -!- frkout_ [~frkout@101.110.31.120] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:01:02 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 03:01:18 frkout [~frkout@101.110.31.250] has joined #lisp 03:04:08 -!- seangrove [~user@2600:1010:b011:2a57:454b:5c64:dd83:e3eb] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:06:53 vkrest_ [~vkrest@mpk-nat-7.thefacebook.com] has joined #lisp 03:07:31 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.251.216.208] has joined #lisp 03:07:43 -!- aluuu [~aluuu@77.242.110.178] has left #lisp 03:07:45 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.251.216.208] has quit [Changing host] 03:07:45 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 03:10:01 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@mpk-nat-6.thefacebook.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:11:23 -!- vkrest_ [~vkrest@mpk-nat-7.thefacebook.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:15:48 -!- akbiggs [~akbiggs@user3-202-135.wireless.utoronto.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:16:23 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 03:17:43 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 03:19:14 brandonz [~brandon@199-241-200-45.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has joined #lisp 03:21:10 -!- harish_ [harish@nat/redhat/x-xctzwpsofbnpxjlf] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:21:35 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-fzfohpqduwnfzrmm] has joined #lisp 03:23:00 -!- redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:23:36 -!- zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:23:57 -!- sshirokov [sshirokov@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:24:12 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:24:44 -!- nightshade427 [~nightshad@li662-78.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:25:01 Bicyclidine [45a62f69@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.166.47.105] has joined #lisp 03:25:24 -!- sbryant [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:25:39 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 03:30:59 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:31:09 -!- vaporatorius [~vaporator@25.red-80-29-94.adsl.static.ccgg.telefonica.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:34:01 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:35:56 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 03:37:08 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:42:44 eliyak [~eliyak@c-71-194-134-120.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:45 -!- eliyak [~eliyak@c-71-194-134-120.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:42:45 eliyak [~eliyak@wikisource/Eliyak] has joined #lisp 03:46:04 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:46:40 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:46:41 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 03:47:13 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:48:06 manamonghippos [~manamongh@lan.cis.uab.edu] has joined #lisp 03:48:28 Is there any decent and well-documented websocket client API for CL? 03:49:20 redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 03:49:39 nightshade427 [~nightshad@li662-78.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 03:49:48 -!- bgs100 [~bgs@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: bgs100] 03:50:20 sshirokov [sshirokov@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has joined #lisp 03:51:49 sbryant [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has joined #lisp 03:52:21 -!- nipra [~nipra@122.177.158.226] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:52:23 da4c30ff [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has joined #lisp 03:53:50 zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has joined #lisp 03:56:38 -!- da4c30ff [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:57:16 nisstyre [yourstruly@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 04:00:51 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.174.31.51] has joined #lisp 04:00:51 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.174.31.51] has quit [Changing host] 04:00:51 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 04:05:29 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 04:07:18 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:11:44 setmeaway [oosool3@119.201.52.188] has joined #lisp 04:13:03 wchun [~wchun@81-233-226-189-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 04:13:46 sellout- [~Adium@c-50-134-206-238.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:16:07 -!- QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Iceape 2.7.12/20130119143918]] 04:16:54 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has joined #lisp 04:18:02 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:28:53 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@167.222-62-69.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:29:12 KCL [~quassel@50.13.169.64] has joined #lisp 04:29:36 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.67.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:32:29 -!- Jayk97 [~quassel@50.13.169.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:34:07 akbiggs [~akbiggs@bas3-toronto02-1279464442.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 04:36:51 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-132-189.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 04:52:06 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-24-60-1-249.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:53:37 DalekBaldwin [~user@ip68-231-209-84.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:00:25 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-157.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:01:03 mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 05:02:16 -!- nightshade427 [~nightshad@li662-78.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:02:30 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.67.185] has joined #lisp 05:02:38 -!- akbiggs [~akbiggs@bas3-toronto02-1279464442.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:04:03 nightshade427 [~nightshad@li662-78.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 05:07:23 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.67.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:08:18 I'm still a noop when it comes to LOOP macros - could someone point out what is wrong with this? (loop :for x :in '(1 2 3 4) :do (print x) :with y = (1+ x) :do (format t "y=~a~%" y)) 05:08:27 noop = noob 05:09:09 you can't put with after do 05:09:19 (an abomination of prepositions, right there) 05:09:33 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.67.185] has joined #lisp 05:09:43 also you can combine the dos, i.e. (loop ... do (print x) (format t ...)) 05:09:58 So the :for/:do/:with/:do don't get evaluated in that order? 05:10:18 they don't get evaluated at all, they're prepositions that have to go in a specific order, you know? 05:11:44 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@pool-108-15-111-28.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jangle] 05:12:04 *drmeister* doesn't know - I've avoided the LOOP macro until now because it doesn't look lispy. 05:12:54 try the iterate package then 05:13:05 well, long story short, no it's not just a bunch of stuff you can put in any order. 05:13:41 it's more like the loop macro goes through and thinks well first i gotta bind these for and with variables, then i can do the looping, and etc 05:15:58 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-qfuahiftjukczomg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:17:36 Ok, I just read that :with variables get bound before the first iteration. 05:18:12 DalekBaldwin: I read the iterate paper - I feel good about iterate but I feel that I better learn LOOP. 05:20:00 Is there a way with loop to set a variable based on the loop named variable? Like the (loop :for x in '(1 2 3) :SOMETHING y = (1+ x) :do (print y)) Or do I have to put a LET in there? 05:20:25 (loop :for x :in '(1 2 3) :do (let ((y (1+ x))) (print y))) 05:21:44 isn't that with does? i don't remember 05:27:34 did you try for y = (1+ x) ? 05:28:17 DataLinkDroid: No - I see what you are getting at though. 05:29:56 Yeah - that does it. So :for is for advancing something and :with is for declaring/initializing local variables once before the loop starts. 05:30:11 yep 05:30:29 you also don't need the keyword colons prepending the structural symbols 05:30:38 -!- pierre1_ [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:30:39 So this is what I have: https://gist.github.com/dr-meister/0d2617611e1452fa5e4b 05:31:17 White_Flame: Yeah - I just like the way it makes the for/with/until/finally stand out 05:31:21 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:31:27 yep, it's preference 05:32:04 -!- ski [~ski@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:32:31 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.67.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:32:34 drmeister: looks reasonable. as White_Flame says, you don't need the keyword symbols if you don't want them 05:33:29 Great! 05:34:07 jerrychow [~jerrychow@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 05:35:25 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:36:04 -!- fridim__ [~fridim@65.93.77.146] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:39:16 ggole [~ggole@124-148-126-109.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:39:18 -!- brandonz [~brandon@199-241-200-45.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:39:33 ski [~ski@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has joined #lisp 05:39:56 effy [~x@222.131.153.216] has joined #lisp 05:40:02 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-108-114.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:40:34 juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has joined #lisp 05:40:50 -!- waa [~waa@189-31-214-4.ctame700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:42:22 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 05:44:33 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.67.185] has joined #lisp 05:45:32 drmeister: I don't think your :with line is doing anything there, simply :for ... :for ... :for ... is fine. 05:47:40 DarkLinkXXXX [~DarkLinkX@24-113-233-5.wavecable.com] has joined #lisp 05:47:45 -!- DarkLinkXXXX [~DarkLinkX@24-113-233-5.wavecable.com] has quit [Changing host] 05:47:45 DarkLinkXXXX [~DarkLinkX@unaffiliated/darklinkxxxx] has joined #lisp 05:48:52 segmond [~uzo@adsl-108-73-161-113.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:48:54 -!- jerrychow [~jerrychow@58.245.253.218] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:49:16 When I use linedit with sbcl, the repl completely locks up after I press ctrl+left/up/right/down arrow. Does this happen on anyone else's machine? 05:53:08 Vivitron: Thanks - I'll remove it. 05:53:15 da4c30ff [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has joined #lisp 05:55:03 -!- nand1 [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:55:05 -!- r0b4 [~robert@subtle/contributor/robgleeson] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:55:18 This may not be the best place to ask this question but its about Common Lisp garbage collection and ##C++ are a population of wankers (mostly). 05:55:29 I implement all of my Common Lisp objects with C++ classes that define virtual destructors. 05:55:38 Only a few of the C++ classes (like streams) define bodies for the destructors. 05:55:52 I am using the Memory Pool System for garbage collection which maintains a message queue full of messages for objects that require finalization. 05:56:03 When I pull a finalization message off of this queue I will call the C++ destructor for the object that it specifies. 05:56:39 I believe that I only need call destructors for C++ classes that either have a destructor body or inherit from a class that has a destructor body. 05:56:43 How does that sound? 05:57:21 -!- da4c30ff [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:59:02 Now that I type it out - it occurs to me that implicit destructors must be called as well. If I have a class that uses an stl template class - that will need to be destructed. 05:59:59 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.153.103.233] has quit [Quit: Disconnecting -- bye] 06:02:02 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-84-44-179-167.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:02:47 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.67.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:06:27 drmeister: does your non-destructor part of finalization cover things like freeing member pointers? 06:06:44 or should that be covered by C++ destructors. 06:08:43 -!- ASau [~user@176.5.184.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:08:51 C++ destructors would handle all finalization. I'm just wondering if there is a way to determine if a C++ class has a destructor that does nothing and thus does not need to be flagged to the garbage collector as requiring finalization. 06:09:14 sdemarre [~serge@112.84-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 06:09:50 A boxed object that just contains a "double" would not need to have it's destructor called and thus would not need to be flagged as needing finalization. 06:11:25 But a STREAM object or a SIMPLE-STRING would require a destructor call and thus would need to be flagged as needing finalization. 06:12:32 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:12:36 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.67.185] has joined #lisp 06:12:56 Why does a simple string need destruction? 06:13:06 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 06:17:51 loke: A simple-string is stored in a std::string which I believe stores the characters on the heap. 06:18:01 -!- johs [~johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:19:26 johs [~johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 06:21:10 Ouch 06:21:30 You're refcounting? 06:23:09 nand1 [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:26:12 -!- segmond is now known as seggy 06:27:04 segmond [~segmond@adsl-108-73-161-113.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:29:02 -!- seggy [~uzo@adsl-108-73-161-113.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:29:54 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.67.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:37:18 -!- Bicyclidine [45a62f69@gateway/web/freenode/ip.69.166.47.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:41:36 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:42:05 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:42:49 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:45:24 brandonz [~brandon@c-50-131-126-204.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:45:44 pierre1_ 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I tried it on different machines and accounts and even networks too and it keeps on working. 13:29:21 Xach: I'll see if I can gather some more or less useful things from the net and add in some extra switches later today. Maybe wildly grasping at straws will work for once. 13:29:32 nug700 [~nug700@71-223-10-69.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:11 Shinmera: do you have more victims^Wusers? 13:30:34 Xach: I haven't gotten anyone else to try yet, no. But I'll see about that as well. 13:32:29 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:32:50 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:33:26 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:34:44 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-24-60-1-249.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:35:01 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:35:33 ronparke [~user@cpe-098-026-027-249.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:37:29 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:38:13 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 13:38:34 Xach: Perhaps you need to register a key or digital-signature with tweeter to be able to tweet? 13:38:57 Or perhaps you've been blacklisted? 13:39:03 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:41:09 There are many possibilities. 13:41:11 He already tried with a completely new twitter application that definitely has read-write access, so I don't think that's the cause. 13:43:09 -!- da4c30ff__ [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:43:44 da4c30ff__ [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has joined #lisp 13:46:18 red`s [~red_s@187-127-234-143.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #lisp 13:47:59 -!- da4c30ff__ [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:48:17 r0b4 [~robert@subtle/contributor/robgleeson] has joined #lisp 13:50:18 scharan_ [~scharan@caps04.cs.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 13:58:14 -!- Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:05:10 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 14:05:42 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 14:07:06 LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:10:56 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 14:20:00 -!- ndrei_ [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:21:22 -!- maxpeck [~maxpeck@unaffiliated/maxpeck] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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ZZZzzz] 14:32:29 -!- ggkitsas [~ggkitsas@150.140.215.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:34:06 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 14:34:27 akbiggs [~akbiggs@64.215.161.70] has joined #lisp 14:34:41 fridim__ [~fridim@65.93.77.146] has joined #lisp 14:35:58 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:36:09 -!- funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:36:35 funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has joined #lisp 14:37:48 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 14:38:30 ggkitsas [~ggkitsas@150.140.215.119] has joined #lisp 14:39:06 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-50-134-206-238.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:39:51 Xach: can you try a media update? (chirp:statuses/update-with-media "text" #p"/some/image") 14:42:22 Xach: Hah, well then 14:42:36 what is this mystery! 14:43:04 Twitter uses different signing procedures for "regular post" and "data post". So there must be something going aloof with the regular posting procedure 14:43:53 ok! progress? 14:44:15 Yes, a bit at least. I'll have to fiddle around a bit. 14:45:36 aloof? awry mayhap 14:48:01 aground 14:50:00 -!- funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has quit [Changing host] 14:50:00 funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/motley] has joined #lisp 14:51:04 -!- Kromitvs [~quassel@mcqueen.rnl.ist.utl.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:52:17 -!- MoALTz [~no@user-31-175-247-158.play-internet.pl] has quit [Quit: bbl] 14:52:33 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 14:52:59 splittist [uid17737@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wlmrynjgegpetkhj] has joined #lisp 14:53:38 -!- funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/motley] has quit [Changing host] 14:53:38 funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has joined #lisp 14:55:09 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:55:16 morning all 14:56:03 -!- marsam_ is now known as marsam 14:56:26 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:56:37 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 14:57:35 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 14:58:35 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:58:39 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@OL171-182.fibertel.com.ar] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 14:59:11 -!- Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 15:00:50 Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 15:01:05 vanjulio [cc73b704@gateway/web/freenode/ip.204.115.183.4] has joined #lisp 15:01:09 /join #qt 15:01:38 Ethan- [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:55 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:01:55 Kromitvs [~quassel@193.136.164.203] has joined #lisp 15:02:01 -!- funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:02:37 funnel [~funnel@23.226.237.192] has joined #lisp 15:02:45 -!- funnel [~funnel@23.226.237.192] has quit [Changing host] 15:02:45 funnel [~funnel@unaffiliated/espiral] has joined #lisp 15:02:48 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 15:04:07 segv- [~mb@95-91-242-30-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 15:06:59 -!- patbarron [~pat@pool-173-75-28-121.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Exiting HexChat] 15:07:10 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 15:07:50 -!- BaconOverflow___ is now known as BaconOverflow 15:10:36 Xach: Alright, here goes another attempt. Could you git pull, reload, and tweet again (regular, non-media tweet)? 15:11:23 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.72.210] has joined #lisp 15:11:23 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.72.210] has quit [Changing host] 15:11:23 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 15:11:36 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:12:23 Ok, sure. 15:13:14 -!- easye` [~user@2a01:4f8:200:4310::30] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:13:31 easye [~user@2a01:4f8:200:4310::30] has joined #lisp 15:14:04 Hooray! 15:14:06 Callooh! Callay! 15:14:14 Thanks Shinmera 15:14:44 It turns out that drakma's url-encoder leaves out a few symbols (, and !) that twitter requires to be encoded. I never caught that because I used alphanumeric test messages. 15:14:58 I've had trouble with the url encoder. It's the one from PURI. 15:15:09 It interacts badly with some Amazon auth stuff too. 15:15:14 I adapted the one from drakma to fit twitter's spec. 15:15:32 obviously need to add scheme code to the test suite 15:16:28 ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 15:17:19 splittist: Having a test suite for this library is still something I don't know how to go about, since most of the functionality of it depends on server communication and authorized account access. 15:20:16 -!- Ethan- [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:23:51 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:24:03 lduros` [~user@pool-108-52-158-9.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:57 Adlai [~Adlai@gateway/tor-sasl/adlai] has joined #lisp 15:30:54 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:31:17 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 15:33:52 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:35:49 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 15:37:31 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 15:40:59 Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat103.it.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 15:43:36 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:44:14 da4c30ff__ [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has joined #lisp 15:45:04 uzo [c6fce60f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.252.230.15] has joined #lisp 15:48:02 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 15:48:33 Malice_ [~Malice@94-229-220-135.static.espol.com.pl] has joined #lisp 15:48:47 -!- da4c30ff__ [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:51:39 blahzik [~anonymous@cpe-66-60-237-123.cmts1.phonoscopecable.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:48 jangle [~jimmy1984@50.241.129.73] has joined #lisp 15:55:53 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@138.23.59.87] has joined #lisp 15:56:48 -!- ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:57:24 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:57:47 askatasuna [~askatasun@OL171-182.fibertel.com.ar] has joined #lisp 15:57:56 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:59:36 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:00:16 -!- ggkitsas [~ggkitsas@150.140.215.119] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:01:55 ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 16:03:24 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@92.247.23.10] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. 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17:54:30 I've just tried to load cl-environment-1.3. Lots of messages and when I try the variable cl.env:*common-lisp-implementation*, its bound to nil. Is cl-environment operational? 17:55:31 I'm using Clozure CL on Debian GNU/Linux (jessie) with SLIME 2013-11-17 with Emacs 24.3.1 17:55:38 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 17:58:58 mindCrime__ [~prhodes@rrcs-98-101-159-194.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:59:21 Joreji [~thomas@149-126.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:59:37 -!- mindCrime_ [~prhodes@rrcs-98-101-159-194.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:00:24 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@176.238.59.60] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:00:59 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 18:03:14 normanrichards [~textual@12.226.76.130] has joined #lisp 18:04:22 -!- nug700_ is now known as nug700 18:06:32 The package is called CLOCC 18:11:17 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-246-18-219.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 18:11:29 -!- juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has quit [Quit: juanlas] 18:11:53 -!- vanjulio [cc73b704@gateway/web/freenode/ip.204.115.183.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:12:21 axion [~axion@cpe-67-246-18-219.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:14:56 Poenikatu: there are 2 clocc packages i found..... 18:15:08 -!- anunnaki_ [~anunnaki@hellsgate.pl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:15:08 -!- jackdaniel [~jack@hellsgate.pl] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:15:11 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:15:14 Poenikatu: one has that cl-env thing the other the proper clocc content i looked for.... 18:15:28 jackdaniel [~jack@hellsgate.pl] has joined #lisp 18:15:29 Poenikatu: i don't know what cl-env stands for..... 18:16:06 so if you got the one package, rename it and move it somewhere and download the proper clocc 18:17:13 -!- Lefeni [~Lefeni@c-7149e555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:18:42 oleo: Where is the other clocc? 18:20:49 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:20:58 -!- zkc [~zhangkaiz@27.47.16.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:23:28 it's still on sourceforge i think, but one is clocc.sourceforge.net..... the other sourceforge.net/.../projects/clocc... 18:24:49 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@OL171-182.fibertel.com.ar] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 18:26:00 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:32 przl [~przlrkt@p57922478.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:28:18 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:30:30 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 18:30:39 -!- Malice_ [~Malice@94-229-220-135.static.espol.com.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:30:58 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:31:31 oleo: I did a search on sourceforge.net for clocc and got the cl-environment download page. Where is the other package? 18:32:15 wait 18:34:07 -!- percopal [~percopal@63.65.76.38] has quit [Quit: percopal] 18:35:19 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 18:35:49 http://clocc.cvs.sourceforge.net/viewvc/clocc/clocc/ 18:36:44 click the download gnu tarball link at the end of that page... 18:36:49 juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has joined #lisp 18:39:28 -!- normanrichards [~textual@12.226.76.130] has quit [] 18:40:27 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:44:06 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 18:45:19 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-2f10e575.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:47:18 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:47:55 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 18:48:05 percopal [~percopal@63.65.76.38] has joined #lisp 18:50:31 mocl ftw. 18:51:12 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:51:28 cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 18:52:09 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:52:21 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:53:32 wgreenhouse [~wgreenhou@fsf/member/wgreenhouse] has joined #lisp 18:53:36 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:56:09 isakovy [~isakovy@193.105.245.23] has joined #lisp 18:56:09 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:56:48 sdemarre [~serge@112.84-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 18:57:48 -!- djinni`_ [~djinni@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:58:10 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 18:58:38 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:58:54 -!- dlowe [dlowe@digital.sanctuary.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:58:54 -!- jonh [~moo@207.192.74.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:59:19 -!- sjl [~sjl@li136-50.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:59:40 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Quit: http://cyborginstitute.org/] 18:59:50 dlowe [dlowe@digital.sanctuary.org] has joined #lisp 18:59:54 jonh [~moo@207.192.74.123] has joined #lisp 19:00:03 -!- nicdev [~user@kilimanjaro.rafpepa.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00:12 -!- xristos [x@ns3.suspicious.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:00:51 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:51 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:00:54 nicdev [~user@kilimanjaro.rafpepa.com] has joined #lisp 19:01:18 -!- luis [~luis@kerno.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:01:24 -!- ivan [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:01:24 sjl [~sjl@li136-50.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 19:01:37 xristos [x@ns3.suspicious.org] has joined #lisp 19:01:39 -!- ivan_ [~ivan@46-65-53-22.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:02:01 -!- xristos is now known as Guest37437 19:02:05 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:06 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:02:38 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:03:40 djinni` [~djinni@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 19:04:02 luis [~luis@kerno.org] has joined #lisp 19:05:16 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 19:06:41 ivan [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 19:07:27 -!- mindCrime__ [~prhodes@rrcs-98-101-159-194.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:07:44 mindCrime__ [~prhodes@rrcs-98-101-159-194.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:08:17 -!- percopal [~percopal@63.65.76.38] has quit [Quit: percopal] 19:08:17 oleo: Have done so. Quite big for Lisp code (5,1MiB) 19:08:38 oleo: Must go now: the kitchen beckons :-) 19:08:43 -!- Poenikatu [~kvirc@pdpc/supporter/bronze/poenikatu] has left #lisp 19:09:05 nono [6dd25190@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.210.81.144] has joined #lisp 19:09:07 -!- nono is now known as ooooo 19:09:12 -!- ooooo is now known as ooooooooooo 19:09:18 hello 19:09:38 you know a good documentation about lisp,please ? 19:09:54 and in lisp, we can calcul graph problem ? 19:09:55 -!- nydel [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-yclkjkyzlwtimteq] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:10:16 -!- Guest37437 [x@ns3.suspicious.org] has left #lisp 19:10:44 nydel [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-gqrlcgnxnnysvemr] has joined #lisp 19:11:08 xristos [x@ns3.suspicious.org] has joined #lisp 19:12:53 fix your nick first? :P 19:13:16 what's wrong with my nick? 19:13:30 not sure what's going on tbh 19:13:35 looks like server desync 19:13:57 ooooooooooo: common lisp hyperspec - type it in google for documentation 19:14:01 -!- Joreji [~thomas@149-126.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:14:14 clhs.el ftw 19:14:26 jackdaniel: ok =), i would like to learn a véry simple and very fast language 19:14:27 -!- bocaneri [~bocaneri_@about/linux/staff/sauvin] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:14:39 just to make algorithm 19:14:50 without video, database or something 19:15:03 -!- mindCrime__ is now known as mindCrime 19:15:27 what about scheme then..... 19:15:40 it's small fast and easy.... 19:15:58 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:16:00 davazp [~user@167.Red-88-15-120.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:16:03 cl is rather big fast and complex or so.... 19:16:05 percopal [~percopal@63.65.76.38] has joined #lisp 19:16:24 *jaimef* finds cl easier to use than scheme 19:16:31 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-188-164.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:16:31 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-67-176-62-45.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:16:38 well depends.... 19:16:50 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-188-164.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:17:01 MoALTz [~no@user-31-175-247-158.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 19:17:15 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-194-73-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:17:24 *jaimef* notes most of the scheme implementations bombed on loading a 26MB json file. Only Racket could do it, and it was quite slow. CL no issue 19:17:48 -!- manamonghippos [~manamongh@lan.cis.uab.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:17:50 Elisp version was quite fast 19:18:02 PuffTheMagic [uid3325@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hsnflnmbxoxyqbhv] has joined #lisp 19:18:02 hmmm 19:18:16 i thought emacs sucked with big files..... 19:18:27 okay thx =), i search on google 19:18:41 oleo: with few editor we can open big file 19:18:51 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 19:19:16 oleo: maybe vi ? 19:20:48 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 19:21:07 no idea 19:21:09 emacs is fine with big files as long as syntax highlighting is off. It has problems with displaying long lines though. 19:21:57 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:22:19 Tyler [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has joined #lisp 19:22:46 -!- Tyler is now known as Guest83018 19:23:27 -!- sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:24:11 -!- Guest83018 [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has left #lisp 19:24:25 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@lns-sfr-5-48-246-200.dsl.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:24:52 ggole: you still using xemacs? 19:25:06 I've never used xemacs. 19:25:13 ahh noob :P 19:25:14 You might be thinking of bpalmer. 19:26:08 chris_l [~quassel@p5499D154.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:26:15 :P 19:27:18 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:28:34 who is bpalmer ? 19:30:09 it's a great man ? 19:30:35 ASau [~user@46.115.67.247] has joined #lisp 19:30:50 __prefect [~prefect@koln-5d817537.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:58 i will search, thx for the help 19:31:05 cya 19:31:06 -!- ooooooooooo [6dd25190@gateway/web/freenode/ip.109.210.81.144] has left #lisp 19:31:56 ooooooooooo: http://www.quickmeme.com/img/36/3688c869ae6a1fc49bd045749f9cbb0f00a4401fb9e8fcd3ef4b9e710bd3be9f.jpg 19:32:57 lol 19:33:20 -!- blahzik [~anonymous@cpe-66-60-237-123.cmts1.phonoscopecable.net] has quit [Quit: blahzik] 19:34:51 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 19:37:39 -!- MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 19:39:49 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 19:40:45 sellout- [~Adium@66.185.108.211] has joined #lisp 19:42:20 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: patrickwonders] 19:44:34 jaimef: couldn't you have used the lisp-powered one? :( 19:45:37 -!- innertracks 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closed the connection] 20:02:46 -!- duggiefr_ [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:03:02 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 20:03:35 -!- blahzik [~anonymous@cpe-66-60-237-123.cmts1.phonoscopecable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:03:39 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:04:12 -!- QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Iceape 2.7.12/20130119143918]] 20:04:21 Renee28 [~Renee28@95.141.31.4] has joined #lisp 20:05:11 -!- rustico [~rustico@gw-rdu.qliktech.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:05:16 -!- Renee28 [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has been kicked from #lisp by p_l (Renee28) 20:06:53 -!- isakovy [~isakovy@193.105.245.23] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:07:20 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 20:19:59 -!- ggole [~ggole@124-148-126-109.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 20:19:59 -!- joga [OI72Ymdg@unaffiliated/joga] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:32:28 ASau` [~user@46.115.67.247] has joined #lisp 20:34:24 -!- ASau [~user@46.115.67.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:34:36 cheryllium [~chatzilla@128.237.187.9] has joined #lisp 20:34:59 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@lns-sfr-5-48-246-200.dsl.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:35:20 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 20:35:48 Hello all 20:36:05 pnpuff [~Fe82Si4B1@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 20:36:21 hello sandboxer! 20:36:26 *oleo* winks 20:36:38 lol 20:37:07 -!- pnpuff [~Fe82Si4B1@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 20:38:54 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:39:08 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-206-28.broadband.corbina.ru] has left #lisp 20:39:30 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 20:40:51 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:40:53 slyrus [~chatzilla@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:24 oh no 20:41:26 please 20:41:28 it's cheryllium 20:41:37 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@67.136.175.194] has joined #lisp 20:41:45 the most I have done with that idea is think about it. :P 20:42:33 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 20:43:02 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 20:43:17 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 20:43:31 *prxq* hands cheryllium a shovel and a bucket. 20:43:37 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:43:37 -!- BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-034-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:43:44 lol 20:44:10 I'm more involved with my commonqt tutorials right now 20:44:18 trying to think of good example GUIs to walk through 20:44:26 I just released tutorial #3 ^^ 20:44:32 mihirrege [~mihirrege@gateway/tor-sasl/geremih] has joined #lisp 20:44:34 misv [~ms@c-b977e255.033-162-7673741.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:45:03 *jaimef* wishes there was a wrapper for guis on various platforms. android/ios/X11/cocoa/win 20:46:11 there is cl-gtk2, clx, and i think a win32 wrapper, and CCL has Cocoa stuff 20:46:43 and commonqt which works on few of those platforms 20:46:47 and that 20:46:48 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-buxtqbrthtwdncjj] has joined #lisp 20:47:11 cl-launch --lisp lispworks --image ... --dump ! --include ... --file /... --system ... --init ... --output ... ; out.sh ... success with test 2465 :-) 20:47:36 yay for automated testing 20:49:16 yay! mocl project has 185 files, only one of which is lisp... :P 20:51:10 ? 20:53:12 jaimef: The closest thing is ltk (no android, though) 20:53:26 but then android is a different matter altogether 20:53:54 is the jdk really that small that it's portable to these devices, but not full CL? 20:54:09 joga [AoPQLMmi@rikki.fi] has joined #lisp 20:54:10 -!- joga [AoPQLMmi@rikki.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 20:54:14 jaimef, reduced jdk 20:54:36 and yes, CL works there 20:54:55 CCL does — but its I/O capabilities with the rest of the system are limited — will you fund it? 20:55:21 funding wukix atm 20:57:43 joga [iX5tL3Mw@83.150.90.112] has joined #lisp 20:57:43 -!- joga [iX5tL3Mw@83.150.90.112] has quit [Client Quit] 20:59:35 -!- mihirrege [~mihirrege@gateway/tor-sasl/geremih] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:59:57 oleo: Common Lisp is smaller and simplier than r7rs (or r6rs even). 20:59:59 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 21:00:38 zophy [~sy@host-49-142-220-24.midco.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:42 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 21:01:17 no idea.... 21:01:29 mihirrege [~mihirrege@gateway/tor-sasl/geremih] has joined #lisp 21:01:36 i thought the spec was always > r5rs, r6rs...... 21:01:38 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@p5DDC79F5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 21:01:55 r6rs and r7rs (small+big) are bigger. 21:02:02 weird 21:02:11 Everything's bigger than emacs or CL nowadays. 21:02:19 wth 21:02:31 it makes the impression they are smaller tho.... 21:02:40 if you have JDK you have ABCL, right? 21:02:40 haha 21:02:49 dim: not on android. 21:02:55 oh. ok 21:03:02 dim: on android, the VM is not JVM, but dalvik. 21:03:05 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:03:10 right 21:03:14 ABCL is a compiler targetting JVM. 21:03:18 -!- Joreji [~thomas@149-126.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:03:19 there's JikesRVM tho, the JVM written in Java 21:03:22 CLforJava could work perhaps. 21:03:47 can you run http://jikesrvm.org/ on dalvik? 21:03:50 android is not JVM 21:04:03 if you can, dalvik runs JikesRVM which runs ABCL? ;-) 21:04:03 as that appears to be the beginning of the discussion 21:04:20 or you could just run CCL heh 21:04:25 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:04:26 jerrychow [~jerrychow@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 21:04:31 is that the easy way out? 21:04:35 joga [ALDENQU1@rikki.fi] has joined #lisp 21:04:59 depends on what you mean by "easy", and it doesn't have access to Java stuff any more than C per afaik 21:05:00 CommonQt, afaik, works only on computers (not mobile phones) 21:05:09 -!- jerrychow [~jerrychow@58.245.253.218] has quit [Client Quit] 21:05:29 weird too, qt itself works on nokia mobiles.... 21:05:31 I wonder if bindings to something like Kivy can be made 21:05:56 i don't think there's anything that's just great anywhere no matter what, unless unity3d is sufficient for your needs (and you like C# or whatever) 21:05:59 Qt can be used to develop mobile cross-platform things 21:06:06 but I don't know if commonqt has the same capabilities 21:06:12 Pullphinger [~Pullphing@12.40.23.68] has joined #lisp 21:06:42 Qt can be if you have a phone platform that's based on Qt, and i think that went out of style years and years ago 21:06:55 no, you can use qt for android for instance 21:06:59 There's Sailfish, which is based on QT 21:07:04 see here http://code.google.com/p/android-lighthouse/ 21:07:06 ah, i hadn't heard 21:07:25 it seems to have been integrated recently http://blog.qt.digia.com/ 21:07:36 "Published Wednesday March 5th, 2014" 21:08:02 There appears to also be iOS support, see here http://qt-project.org/doc/qt-5/ios-support.html 21:08:03 otoh what are you writing that will really have the need for the same UI to run on a desktop as a phone 21:08:06 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: BRB] 21:08:20 i can't think of anything that actually does that well 21:08:23 I was searching the PlayStore for "secure email", but then I realized, I could not trust any of the "secure" email applications proposed. You need to write your own code to trust it. 21:08:44 if you trust your own code for security, you're probably doing it wrong heh 21:08:49 oGMo kivy does that well, except the desktop version of the app looks very mobile-y, according to my friend who does kivy a lot 21:08:56 you going to write your own SSL layer as well pjb ? 21:09:03 I means, when you hear about gnutls and apple ssl, etc. you even want to re-implement your own public key algorithms in lisp! 21:09:06 pjb: you can't trust your own code either, because it will have lots of mistakes 21:09:06 cheryllium: exactly .. not well 21:09:07 and crypto routines? 21:09:10 or any other OSI levels.... 21:09:14 heh 21:09:17 whartung: yes, that's the point. In Lisp! 21:09:42 Internet security is fascinating, because you see the same sorts of tradeoffs in biology 21:09:49 is there a lib to daemonize a lisp process, taking care of the usual Unix steps to doing so (fork, kill the father, close fds, setsid)? 21:09:55 My knee jerk reaction is they should write the security code in SPARK or Ada, but that's me... 21:09:57 For example, I wrote a simple dynamic dns client/server in CL. I trust the challenge/response algo. 21:10:19 ./mylisp-image.exe start # and now it's a daemon running 21:10:44 what's SPARK? 21:10:46 whartung: lisp is as good. Sure a library written in Ada or Haskell, and proven, would be good too. 21:10:50 -!- joga [ALDENQU1@rikki.fi] has quit [Changing host] 21:10:50 joga [ALDENQU1@unaffiliated/joga] has joined #lisp 21:11:00 -!- sdemarre [~serge@112.84-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:11:03 Fare: Dialect of Ada, but more strict 21:11:04 dim: there's a daemonize command on linux. 21:11:11 pjb: you can trust it to not be malicious, but unless you've got serious credentials and published, peer-reviewed proofs, it can't be trusted for correctness 21:11:16 dim: I can feel you writing one. 21:11:41 iolib is probably a good prerequisite to make that thing portable. 21:11:47 that's not the answer I was looking for 21:11:50 unitoad [~user@ip72-198-206-251.om.om.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:50 and of course single-threaded-ccl, on ccl. 21:11:51 but it may be good enough for Security by Apathy .. i.e. no one cares enough to break it 21:11:57 I'd rather someone publish a de facto, platform agnostic test suite to black box test the implementations. 21:12:04 oGMo: of course, for a complex cryptographic system, that would be required. We'll need more cryptographers in our lisp community :-) 21:12:06 that would have rooted out the Apple and GNU bug long ago 21:12:11 well the application embeds a web-server, so single threaded isn't attractive 21:12:33 whartung: I'm afraid blackbox tests are not enough for cryptographic software. 21:12:42 for security software. 21:12:47 no, but they're a start 21:13:05 they don't reveal unknown exploits, for sure. 21:13:12 but they test it works to spec 21:13:23 tests aren't sufficient ;P 21:13:26 well I could be using start-stop-daemon in debian, or something equivalent elsewhere, actually 21:13:39 is there some sort of link between mathematica and lisp? 21:13:48 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 21:14:05 I keep hearing things that they are similar or something, but I don't see how. 21:14:21 they're both symbolic in their way, that's probably as far as it goes 21:14:23 not sure .. you mean maxima? that was written in lisp 21:14:38 the Wolfram language demo recently published was very nice. 21:15:27 cheryllium: about the same link as between Lisp and Ruby: the authors of Ruby and Mathematica language knew about Lisp, and the treators, they designed a new inferior language instead of using lisp! 21:15:50 doesn't sound like wolfram liked lisp at all. https://groups.google.com/forum/#!original/comp.lang.lisp/BUxXH76CYdc/IunywkAxufMJ 21:17:34 cheryllium: that's not his only failing... 21:17:36 Mathematica is symbolic, but there's no quote operator It as a M-expression like syntax instead. 21:17:55 s/as/has/ 21:18:00 well, I am not one to judge someone because they have a huge ego. 21:18:01 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@67.136.175.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:18:26 I have been hearing a lot from my peers about a "wolfram language", thre's a video going around, but isn't it just mathematica, and no one was excited about mathematica before... 21:18:35 -!- chris_l [~quassel@p5499D154.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:19:00 Now, perhaps he's onto something, agregating a ton of ontological "libraries" in his new Mathematica-extended language, making it a smarter language? 21:19:27 marketing, marketing, marketing 21:19:43 it's the mating of Mathmatica with the data sets that makes it interesting (to me). Mind, I've not spent any time at all with Mathmatica 21:19:51 I loved the demo tho 21:19:55 I'm not sure it makes it AI in anycase. It must be quite complex. And I've tried Wolfram Alpha several times, each time I got worse results than the same sentence given to google. 21:20:05 I am convinced mathematica is more interesting to scientists and data analysis people than coders. 21:20:24 The wolfram language demo reminded me of an HP48G on steroids, actually :) 21:20:27 the wolfram language has ugly, clunky syntax in my opinion. I find it powerful for its libraries and access to data, but fairly inelegant... 21:20:49 arguably, RPL is more elegant than that haha 21:20:50 I also keep hearing lisp come up in thse discussions though, like mathematica borrowing things from lisp, but i do not know what 21:21:10 I found this though, from 4 years ago though. http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8l3bq/wolfram_and_lisp/c09mtcm 21:22:02 slarti [~anonymous@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:43 everything borrows from Lisp :) 21:23:06 Joreji [~thomas@155-223.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 21:23:06 Watcher7 [~w@108.218.11.14] has joined #lisp 21:23:57 dim: what are you trying to do exactly ? 21:24:33 I'm building an application that I want to run as a server in the Unix way of doing that, without a REPL connected to that, as a background process 21:24:54 what's your target distribution ? 21:24:57 I'd want to have something like apache or postfix, where you can start/stop/restart/reload/etc... the background process 21:25:19 I'm currently mainly intested into debian/ubuntu/centos/macosx 21:25:27 I fear the day when I have to have a look at windows 21:25:37 dim: i seem to remember there is such a lib by N. Siivola 21:25:50 he'll do an MathOS maybe some time! 21:25:53 lol 21:25:54 https://github.com/nikodemus/sb-daemon 21:26:07 whartung: what do you mean? 21:26:14 oh, nice 21:26:16 Joreji_ [~thomas@155-223.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 21:27:06 dim: my advice is to avoid all that stuff and provide systemd/upstart/launchd configuration files 21:27:17 <_death> you can also use detachtty, for example 21:27:46 I really like the idea that user's life is as simple as possible, when I'm not the user 21:27:59 you could even skip upstart since it's ubuntu-only 21:28:02 my target audience here is not a CL developer 21:28:21 and possibly wants to use the thing unpackaged 21:28:35 ./myapp.exe and be done 21:28:37 Lisp is one of the foundation computer languages. Only Fortran (of languages used today) is older. All of the modern languages are more Lispy that not. As they say, those that don't use Lisp are doomed to reimplement it -- badly. 21:28:46 dim: implementing proper service management is quite hard 21:28:48 well, I'll see, at least now I have the option 21:28:59 <_death> dim: docker (I mentioned this yesterday.. hmmm) can also work 21:29:00 the fork/exec/pidfile/logfile crap is crappy to implement. 21:29:06 fe[nl]ix: I could still have a foreground mode (default?) and init scripts 21:29:11 let someone else implement that, and just run your thing as a foreground process 21:29:20 dim: listen to the force^W^Wfoom 21:29:23 hehe 21:29:39 inetd few! oh, sorrydating myself. 21:29:45 *ftw 21:29:52 what's so crappy about implementing a unix daemon btw? 21:29:54 dim: there are generic backgrounding wrappers 21:30:06 I had to write a PHP lib doing that awhile ago and it just works 21:30:15 starting & stopping is not enough, you need to ensure that you can't start it twice, you need to keep logging 21:30:15 didn't strike me as particulary difficult 21:30:22 -!- Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat103.it.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:30:26 ensure killing when your stop script doesn't work 21:30:45 Davidbrcz_ [~david@lns-sfr-5-48-246-200.dsl.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 21:31:15 if it runs to stdout, there are log rotating utilities that can manage the logs for you. Starting only once is almost never an issue as socket reuse tends to fault out the new instance. 21:31:16 stop script? send either SIGTERM or SIGQUIT to the pid that you've been storing away, from the same script 21:31:27 ./myapp.exe stop == read the pidfile and sigterm 21:31:36 ^^ 21:31:39 I don't know, maybe I'm just being dense here 21:31:40 sooner or later your stop script won't work and you don't want to tell your users to reboot 21:31:55 sometimes SIGTERM isn't enough 21:32:03 http://software.clapper.org/daemonize/ 21:32:05 that's an issue with your program 21:32:14 that's why there's SIGQUIT and SIGKILL, which isn't a signal, but still 21:32:36 kill -KILL pid /damnit 21:32:37 I will have a look at sb-daemon for sure 21:33:03 but yes, I've had executables int he past that could not even be KILLed 21:33:15 but that was long, long ago on ancient OSes 21:33:23 but you should only use daemonize if you're on an OS that doesn't have a sane init system 21:33:24 haven't had that problem recently 21:33:24 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fow7iUaKrq4 21:33:28 it's easy enough to reproduce enve with modern linux 21:33:36 indeed 21:33:42 -!- Posterdati [~kvirc@host208-231-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 21:34:07 just read a file in the process you want to kill, and force unmount the volume where that file is (or unplug the usb key maybe, something), process is in D state, game over 21:34:20 nfs offers plenty of opportunities to shoot yourself badly 21:34:40 and I'm not even creative ;-) 21:35:05 *whartung* has never, EVER cross hard mounted NFS volumes between two computers. Never. Nope. Well, there was this one time... 21:35:48 Posterdati [~kvirc@host208-231-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 21:36:43 Linux actually lets you kill -9 a process in D from an NFS mount. 21:37:18 either my memories are fading faster than I'd like to admit, or maybe did that change recently enough? 21:38:10 anyways it still feels to me like a lot of the "classic" OS interactions I've used before are not applicable to CL 21:39:04 The intr / nointr mount option is deprecated after kernel 2.6.25. Only SIGKILL can interrupt a pending NFS operation on these kernels, and if specified, this mount option is ignored to provide backwards compatibility with older kernels. 21:39:20 Not sure what the behavior of SIGKILL was before that kernel, I thought it worked before too, but maybe not 21:46:54 da4c30ff__ [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has joined #lisp 21:47:20 dilated_dinosaur [~ivan@cpc3-finc13-2-0-cust253.4-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:21 to be able to share the same set of dynamic bindings within a pool of hunchentoot threads, is it necessary to implement one's own Taskmaster? 21:47:40 dim: probably 21:47:58 Well, but you can't share dynamic bindings to threads, just copy them to the threads. 21:48:02 -!- Pullphinger [~Pullphing@12.40.23.68] has quit [] 21:48:09 -!- Acherontius [~user@204.116.186.34] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:50:04 yup, it'll be a different binding, just bound to the same value (initially). 21:51:13 -!- da4c30ff__ [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:52:30 "sharing" and "threads" sounds bad 21:53:19 golly, ya know, maybe it's not really that black and white fe[nl]ix 21:55:04 whartung, not black and white, but an explosion of green death colors as your computer explodes 21:55:10 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:55:20 hahaha 21:55:31 you're right, I should probably refrain from modifying globals that way 21:55:53 I have a config file that I can change then reload, instead 21:56:16 do we have inotify support in CL? 21:56:16 in quux (tarball online), we had a library to locally bind a list of variables in every thread. 21:56:27 dim: there are inotify libraries 21:56:50 https://github.com/stassats/inotify and https://github.com/Ferada/cl-inotify at least, yeah 21:56:51 cool 21:58:04 dim: if you want to reload the easiest thing is to terminate all threads and internally restart your application 21:58:51 not very friendly, but might as well do that (just works is attractive) 21:59:05 why not friendly ? 21:59:44 ideally you politely terminate the threads, not just put a bullet in them 21:59:47 what happens to those active threads, busy sending information to client browsers? 21:59:55 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:00:02 (or worse, receiving precious user data?) 22:00:40 let them terminate the current request but make them exit as soon as that's done 22:00:50 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 22:00:51 oh, I see 22:00:56 put the config information in thread local state, then have the threads terminate "as soon as practical" and restart 22:00:59 I meant an application-specific termination 22:01:25 well hunchentoot:stop might not be that friendly, I don't know 22:01:26 not killing the thread 22:01:52 maybe hunchentoot has provisions to talk to every thread? 22:02:00 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:02:00 it doesn't 22:02:15 -!- xani [~user@178.183.151.31.dsl.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:35 offline only config editing? sounds retarded 22:02:56 what do you mean ? 22:03:17 well online config editing sounds complex all of sudden 22:03:27 -!- Watcher7 [~w@108.218.11.14] has quit [Quit: h] 22:03:45 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 22:03:52 it is, in fact many daemons don't support that 22:03:56 redirect new connections to another server while the current one finishes its own 22:04:33 -!- Davidbrcz_ [~david@lns-sfr-5-48-246-200.dsl.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:04:37 not really, like I said. The config info (which is usually not ginormous) is copied in to thread local storage. When the thread is started, it copies from the global state. When you make a change, just tell every thread to restart when they're ready. They reload the config info when they restart, and the running threads have the old copies until they're done. 22:04:48 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 22:04:54 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 22:05:00 you need to make sure your application is strictly functional 22:05:02 well, or I will just have a global dynamic setting which leads to a lparallel queue of events to process 22:05:29 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:05:38 because during the transition period two different "logical" applications will be running 22:05:39 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 22:05:48 whartung: yes. how to tell threads to reload is the question 22:05:53 Malice_ [~Malice@94-229-220-135.static.espol.com.pl] has joined #lisp 22:06:04 dim: usually you send then a USR1 signal. 22:06:11 or a HUP signal. 22:06:27 yea, I have no idea about that - -I've not worked with threads in lisp 22:06:29 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:06:33 dim: http://fare.livejournal.com/156037.html?thread=529797&mode=reply 22:06:39 you're telling me that each CL thread is a unix signal target? 22:06:51 dim: With bordeaux-threads you can signal a condition in a running thread and use that to handle a shutdown. 22:07:00 and inside the progress, you prepare a special message to threads to reload configuration. 22:07:03 threads and signals... ouch. 22:07:10 Hello all, I'm new here and have always been curious about lisp language, is it worth learning? I mean there are a lot of other mainstream languages that grants jobs got tons of librarys etc. How does that work out for lisp? 22:07:23 misv: it is worth learning. 22:07:24 blahzik [~anonymous@c-98-201-17-190.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:32 No jobs, some libraries in lisp. 22:07:40 Fare: I'm not trying to solve online upgrade, but online reload 22:07:51 depends on your goals misv 22:07:52 dim: only if the CL thread is an native OS thread 22:07:59 ^^ 22:08:01 Watcher7 [~w@108.218.11.14] has joined #lisp 22:08:08 pjb: how do you send the message to all current hunchentoot threads? 22:08:14 pjb: if so, is it CL, scheme or what got the most support? Or would be of most benefit. 22:08:28 reload is upgrade to a new configuration 22:08:44 dim: threads should have a loop: get a message, process a message. So when you need to reload, you just send the reload-config message to all the threads. 22:08:47 -!- ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:08:51 it seems to be to be a much easier problem to solve 22:08:55 that said, you can do that inside your application: each thread has its copy of the configuration, you don't hand new connections to old threads. 22:09:01 pjb: have you been using hunchentoot before? 22:09:14 misv: if you want to use it for practical programming, CL, if you just want to learn it for academic stuff, scheme. 22:09:24 dim: I did something a bit like that in quux-hunchentoot 22:09:49 dim: otherwise, you could set up things so that threads don't have to load a configuration, just use a configuration object that has been magically updated beneath them. 22:09:52 the dispatcher thread queues messages for the worker threads, using lparallel 22:10:00 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 22:10:05 one of the messages is "die" 22:10:27 dim: but globally, my point is that YOU are the programmer. Not the threads 22:10:29 pjb: I wanted to do that, which needs sharing dynamic bindings in between threads and being able to change the values from any running thread 22:10:46 pjb: ah, well I would actually want to have some use of the lang aswell so CL it is i reckon. 22:10:51 it looks like in any case I'm up for coding my own hunchentoot task master 22:11:01 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@155-223.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:11:03 no, not dynamic bindings shared ... just share the data structures 22:11:12 dim: the must fun thing to do, writing a new MCP! :-) 22:11:46 Fare: I don't have a config data structure, just a bunch of loose dynamic bindings 22:11:55 different bindings, same structures 22:12:07 -!- drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:12:35 it escapes me that the tool to do one or the other are different? 22:12:37 -!- Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 22:12:47 dim: then copy them at thread start time. See quux/lisp/quux/thread-variables.lisp 22:12:51 -!- slarti [~anonymous@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has quit [Quit: slarti] 22:14:02 Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 22:14:30 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:14:33 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: ZZzzz] 22:16:57 drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:30 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:20:01 how to list class slots? using MOP? 22:20:19 drewc1 [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:45 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p57922478.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:22:15 <_death> dim: yes 22:22:19 -!- joast [~rick@cpe-24-160-56-92.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:22:29 -!- drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:22:44 -!- Watcher7 [~w@108.218.11.14] has quit [Quit: h] 22:23:54 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 22:24:16 Watcher7 [~w@108.218.11.14] has joined #lisp 22:25:58 dim: see e.g. fare-mop 22:26:10 I'm just done with closer-mop... 22:27:00 joast [~rick@cpe-24-160-56-92.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:27:12 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:27:32 fare-mop is a few utilities on top of closer-mop 22:27:45 it has a utility collect-slots which might be what you want 22:28:54 or maybe what you want is just compute-slots 22:29:15 I think I just want compute-slots 22:29:31 I want to ease defining yason:encode methods for my dao objects 22:29:44 dao? 22:30:23 JuniorRoy [~dev@217.118.79.22] has joined #lisp 22:30:33 -!- vaporatorius [~vaporator@25.red-80-29-94.adsl.static.ccgg.telefonica.net] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 22:30:40 postmodern? 22:30:57 now I have to access instance slots... mmm 22:31:03 cpc26_ [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 22:31:37 -!- zophy [~sy@host-49-142-220-24.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:32:07 fare-mop:collect-slots ? 22:32:22 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:33:15 well (closer-mop:slot-definition-name slot) 22:33:17 or do it yourself: based on the list of slots, (slot-value object (slot-definition-name slotd)) 22:33:38 -!- cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:34:03 now, can I defmethod with the same body against a list of types? 22:34:17 Fare: yeah I just did that 22:36:17 CL json libraries suck 22:36:21 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:36:53 https://sites.google.com/site/sabraonthehill/home/json-libraries has a survey of them 22:37:08 -!- mihirrege [~mihirrege@gateway/tor-sasl/geremih] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:37:45 I should have tried jsown 22:37:47 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has joined #lisp 22:37:59 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:38:09 <_death> I like com.gigamonkeys.json 22:38:12 with cl-json, st-json and yason I only had problems 22:38:37 one generated json that it couldn't parse 22:39:06 fe[nl]ix: yason is said to be good 22:39:06 <_death> I had to patch cl-json so that it'd be sane wrt :false and nil 22:39:09 one had problems with roundtrips: [] -> () -> false is not what I'd expect 22:39:13 oh 22:39:29 ASau` [~user@46.115.84.180] has joined #lisp 22:39:30 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 22:39:31 one generated invalid json that, obviously, postgres rejected 22:39:41 -!- _8680_ [~8680@2002:4404:712c:0:76de:2bff:fed4:2766] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:40:02 it's illegal to have a newline between a key and its value in a map 22:40:04 <_death> with the gigamonkeys I don't have any troubles 22:40:39 in the end I loaded the file into postgres and wrote a stored procedure to manipulate the data :D 22:40:49 -!- karswell [~user@84.93.180.60] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:41:39 json seems to inherit a log of bogus corner cases from javascript. 22:42:31 actually not, json is much more restricted 22:43:01 -!- ASau [~user@46.115.67.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:44:44 <_death> Xach: I've read that survey some time ago.. seemed to me that gigamonkeys wasn't given a fair judgment 22:45:53 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:45:54 fe[nl]ix: here I only intend JSON as a interchange format over HTTP, nobody is storing it 22:47:05 I said nothing about storing it 22:47:27 I only needed to send json data from one service to another while slightly changing its format 22:47:28 yes you said PostgreSQL would refuse it. oh, it's just in the queyr? 22:47:58 -!- Malice_ [~Malice@94-229-220-135.static.espol.com.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:48:30 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 22:48:48 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-bbgfvjxmlwptfyrg] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:49:25 yes 22:49:45 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-uzchbsfpnstczxwy] has joined #lisp 22:53:27 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.228.232.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:55:49 ehu` [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 22:57:37 -!- Joreji [~thomas@155-223.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:58:17 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:58:28 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 22:59:58 -!- ehu` [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:01:00 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 23:01:12 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:01:39 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 23:02:18 -!- cheryllium [~chatzilla@128.237.187.9] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 27.0.1/20140212131424]] 23:04:08 -!- sellout- [~Adium@66.185.108.211] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:06:25 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:06:42 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:07:11 -!- pierre1_ [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:07:42 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:07:55 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:08:01 -!- seantallen [seantallen@nat/theladders/x-nredpvpzbttlxagh] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:10:12 after playing with flycheck today my thoughts turn to what a common lisp lint utility might look like 23:11:35 nialo [~nialo@ool-2f10e575.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:02 bhyde: there is already a CL lint. 23:12:11 bhyde: it would look like a compiler 23:12:12 -!- LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:12:31 But old-fashioned, it reports silly things, and doesn't report important things. 23:12:47 +1 pjb 23:13:54 You can easily integrate a lint into your CL implementation: just define your own lisp package, that exports macros like CL, but with warnings and errors on the constructs you object to. 23:14:10 -!- MoALTz [~no@user-31-175-247-158.play-internet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:14:19 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 23:14:25 "easily" 23:14:49 until you have to reimplement CL in CL, so that macros work correctly 23:15:01 (defmacro if (co th &optional (el nil elp)) (unless elp (error "I object to binary IF")) `(cl:if ,co ,th ,el)) etc. 23:15:51 anybody used flycheck for other languages? 23:16:03 We have a CL lint, but it only does trivial things, like dangling parens. 23:16:38 (defun foo () 23:16:40 1 23:16:40 ) 23:17:33 also, a better lint would do some typechecking, and that cannot be done through myopic local macro expansion. 23:17:33 przl [~przlrkt@p57922478.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:17:44 why would you need lint to do that? 23:17:47 the compiler does it already 23:19:09 what do you need a lint for, then? taking things to that extreme, all you need is a better compiler. 23:19:18 t 23:19:25 Yea but I meant the compiler does it *already*. 23:19:32 (unless elp (sleep 10)) ;; uncooperative users will be "slow-banned" 23:19:48 The compiler doesn't detect misformatted code at the moment. 23:20:29 this is the task of emacs. 23:20:57 it would be nice to get warning while typing without the bother of a compile turn around 23:21:02 I can't be sure that everyone making a change has used emacs configured in the right way. 23:21:27 some might like (local) coding convention fails called out 23:22:14 that said, much of that which is interesting is hard with code walking and macro expansion and that tends to do damage to your running image 23:22:18 Anyways, remember that we don't program in lisp with a compiler, correcting warnings and compiler errors. We write programs incrementally, at the REPL. 23:23:14 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:23:34 pjb: I admit that while I've replaced zsh by CL for scripting, I still use zsh in a terminal as my main repl :-( 23:23:34 it'd be completely reasonable for a lint utility to e.g. complain about (declare (fixnum foo)) instead of (declare (type fixnum foo)) if the style guide forbids that shorthand. it'd be pretty unreasonable for a compiler to style-warn about that 23:23:58 flycheck on a emacs-lisp file is a good example, it has lots of "opinions" 23:24:33 pjb: Heh, I'll, um, try to remember that. 23:24:48 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@67.136.175.194] has joined #lisp 23:24:50 Fare - have you noticed shellcheck.net et. al. ... that's what got me into flycheck 23:25:06 I think a cl linter is missing a flagship feature; something that the compiler doesn't already check but would be useful enough to get it in the door 23:25:11 but also it'd be unreasonable for a linter to complain about a violation of the local style guide in system-defined macros 23:25:24 -!- setmeaway [oosool3@119.201.52.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:25:24 *expansions of system-defined macros 23:26:12 so it's a very tricky problem overall, boiling down to the provenance of particular s-expressions after full macro expansion. just like many bits of CL tooling 23:26:46 Fare: I must confess the same, I still use bash :-( 23:26:51 It'd also sure be nice if the formatting rules for CL were generally encoded in a non-emacs-dependent form. 23:27:14 I'm really loving clang-format. 23:27:22 That's why I'd want to write a new lisp OS, where no bash would be written :-) 23:28:03 pjb: or you could write an interactive shell in CL 23:28:32 seantallen [seantallen@nat/theladders/x-yaktpawcnevsydsf] has joined #lisp 23:29:05 we could use scsh. 23:29:07 I can write my C++ code with whatever spacing/etc, run clang-format, done, formatted correctly. 23:30:48 _8680_ [~8680@2002:4404:712c:0:60e9:dd8f:9eee:74ec] has joined #lisp 23:31:25 pjb: scsh isn't interactive, is it? 23:31:57 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-24-60-1-249.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:23 tesuji [~tesuji@unaffiliated/tesuji] has joined #lisp 23:34:18 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@dsl092-019-253.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:34:21 Fare: yes, it's a shell. It has operators for pipes, redirections, etc. 23:34:33 I thought it was only for scripting. 23:34:49 nope, you can chsh /usr/bin/scsh 23:35:07 nice 23:35:18 You can also use clash, clisp with a reader macro to easily run unix commands. 23:35:41 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:35:42 -!- cpc26_ [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:36:06 That said, I have lisp commands such as (ls) (pwd) (cd) (cat) (more) etc, so I still live a lot in the lisp REPL. 23:36:54 The next I should write probably is find, since directory is synchronous. I use find a lot. 23:37:27 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@67.136.175.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:38:16 scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 23:39:07 scsh is thought provoking ... http://scsh.net/docu/html/man-Z-H-3.html#node_sec_2.6 23:39:30 wtf.... sublime-setup-snippets: Symbol's function definition is void: package--dir [10 times] 23:39:41 cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 23:39:41 1994 :) 23:39:43 ESQ-< yielding that abruptly in every buffer mode 23:40:26 *jaimef* redirects to the proper #emacs 23:42:25 pjb: somehow I always feel uncomfortable with clisp 23:43:15 -!- eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:43:28 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 23:43:47 Fare: I guess you can get the same results with rlwrap ccl. 23:44:06 eMBee [~eMBee@foresight/developer/pike/programmer] has joined #lisp 23:44:21 bhyde, not particularly interactive beyond the SLIME REPL, but inferior-shell brings you pipes and redirections and a concise syntax for spawning jobs from Lisp 23:44:26 -!- PuffTheMagic [uid3325@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hsnflnmbxoxyqbhv] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 23:44:45 one thing clisp has is symbol completion, but one thing it does is persistent history 23:44:47 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:44:59 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-189-150.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:45:14 I find that persistent history saves me more trouble than symbol completion, so I rlwrap clisp -I 23:45:31 skyLibrary [uid14629@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-oydggrmfhoqrwzoh] has joined #lisp 23:45:37 or more likely, rlwrap sbcl, or use it in SLIME or in an emacs M-x shell 23:45:37 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-141-132.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:46:29 hmm, is it not possible to change the topic anymore? So sad. 23:47:27 i guess it's time to upgrade my kit so i have the newer asdf then 23:47:37 there are days when all i do is rearrange my tools 23:47:44 da4c30ff__ [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has joined #lisp 23:48:13 -!- akbiggs [~akbiggs@64.215.161.70] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:48:19 brew install scsh, works :) 23:48:48 -!- juanlas [~jlas@186.232.42.118] has quit [Quit: juanlas] 23:49:19 (run `(pipe (echo "Ernyvgl vf abg fnq, vg whfg vf.") (tr "[A-Za-z]" "[N-ZA-Mn-za-m]"))) 23:49:35 new-lisp 23:49:41 inferior-shell 23:49:52 sonds like eshell 23:50:00 it's common-lisp for you 23:51:42 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 23:51:53 clesh 23:52:01 -!- da4c30ff__ [~da4c30ff@c18.adsl.tnnet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:52:14 -!- _8680_ [~8680@2002:4404:712c:0:60e9:dd8f:9eee:74ec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:52:16 it uses bang notation 23:53:12 hiyosi [~skip_it@126.73.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 23:53:15 (run `(pipe (echo "Ernyvgl vf abg fnq, vg whfg vf.") (tr "[A-Za-z]" "[N-ZA-Mn-za-m]")) :output :string) 23:53:36 or if you want your string stripped, :output :string/stripped 23:53:40 or run/ss 23:55:14 I'm just saying, if you don't need job control, etc., inferior-shell might be enough for most of your shell needs. 23:55:46 _8680_ [~8680@2002:4404:712c:0:60e9:dd8f:9eee:74ec] has joined #lisp 23:56:53 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.193.154] has joined #lisp 23:58:25 -!- dkcl [~user@unaffiliated/dandersen] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:58:28 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-50-137-36-57.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:46 dmiles [~dmiles@c-50-137-36-57.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp