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00:47:19 n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:4c2c:b417:94c2:5a97] has joined #lisp 00:48:18 You're not wrong. 00:48:31 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:4c2c:b417:94c2:5a97] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:48:43 pjb: thanks 00:48:58 pjb: i think my friend is confusing the general term with whatever it means in the OOP world 00:49:10 As soon as you have an abstraction mechanism that allows you to differentiate two parts, you can implement separation of concerns. 00:49:25 Probably. 00:49:33 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.94.136] has joined #lisp 00:49:35 pjb: that's how i understand it, too 00:49:44 A lot of OO programmers having learned only OOP have a very narrow view of things. 00:50:35 You could advice him to read SICP. 00:50:49 Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-4.html http://swiss.csail.mit.edu/classes/6.001/abelson-sussman-lectures/ 00:51:08 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-185-31.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:51:28 pjb: he would probably take that as an insult, heh heh 00:52:18 pjb: thanks! i feel less ignorant and much more confident, now 00:53:22 pjb: i say he would take it as an insult, because he considers himself a champion of lisp and "the functional way" 00:53:44 -!- QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Iceape 2.7.12/20130119143918]] 00:54:58 Not every lisper has read sicp. 00:55:11 pjb: and after finding out from this conversation that he was defending a view that he wasn't even sure of, i can assume that he has a very sensitive ego, and probably wouldn't bear to consider learning something from a "noob" such as myself 00:55:39 sikilpaake: another argument is that closures and objects are equivalent, therefore what you can do in OOP, you can do in FP and vice versa. 00:56:28 pjb: i'm thinking of "separation of concerns" as the "spec", the mental exercise, not any particular implementation 00:56:56 pjb: i'm guessing he's only heard OOP people use the term, and assumes its only valid for that paradigm 00:58:04 ... Just because closures and objects are isomorphic doesn't mean that they're equivalent for all purposes. 00:58:49 pjb: well, i really appreciate your time ..i'll cut out for some chow, now.. but i'll be back with some more of these types of questions 00:58:52 pjb: again, thanks 00:59:24 And wikipedia says: "The term separation of concerns was probably coined by Edsger W. Dijkstra in his 1974 paper "On the role of scientific thought".[6]" that was long before OOP :-) (if you exclude simula and the nascent smalltalk). 01:00:17 Mmm. Pre-Smalltalk-76, which itself was pre-Smalltalk-80, which is the first version that anybody had heard about. 01:00:23 "In 1989, Chris Reade wrote a book titled "Elements of Functional Programming"[7] that describes separation of concerns". 01:00:33 pjb: wait, what? 01:00:44 holy shit 01:00:55 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-185-31.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:00:58 Perhaps he just needs a google glass? 01:01:48 pjb: i wonder why people just *invent* bullsh*t to make themselves appear more knowledgable? 01:02:20 pjb: perhaps it's a much better idea to hang out in this channel, instead of there 01:02:41 :-) 01:02:59 #lisp, the google/wikipedia quotation channel :-) 01:03:37 pjb: heh heh heh 01:03:56 tumba [~user@108-237-52-120.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:04:04 pjb: ok, instead of cooking a meal, i'll just make some cereal, because this is what i really want to know: 01:04:39 pjb: can two concerns be non-mutually-exclusive? 01:04:39 "How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop?" 01:04:59 nyef: heh heh.. that's easy.. only 3 ;-) 01:05:35 Good memory. About the only response with higher reference-cred would be "that's not me, you idiot, it's some owl that does that". (-: 01:05:39 pjb: in other words, can you have separation of concerns in a way that they fit into a euler diagram 01:05:51 sikilpaake: of course: you can build abstractions over abstractions. Therefore the concern of the higher level abstraction encompasses the concern of the lower level abstraction. 01:05:53 nyef: heh heh heh 01:06:26 -!- BlackWabi [~wabi@194.47.216.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:06:29 pjb: wow.. interesting answer.. i never thought of it that way 01:06:53 pjb: where can i read more about that? 01:06:59 in sicp. 01:07:06 pjb: oh, cool 01:07:11 pjb: alright, nice 01:07:28 also, in the oo literature, any book going beyond the level of objects, to that of the modules and components (cf. uml). 01:07:57 pjb: ok.. i don't really understand oop, so i'll skip that 01:08:06 pjb: thanks, man.. i appreciate it 01:08:15 This pre-uml book was nice too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object-modeling_technique 01:08:47 pjb: now i gotta go get some aminoacids, lipids, carbohydrates and proteins in me 01:10:17 Mmm... lipids... 01:10:57 innertracks [~Thunderbi@174-21-153-156.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:05 -!- Fare [~fare@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:15:12 -!- Denommus [~AndChat42@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:15:25 Denommus [~AndChat42@189-48-181-49.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #lisp 01:15:37 -!- Denommus [~AndChat42@189-48-181-49.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Changing host] 01:15:37 Denommus [~AndChat42@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 01:16:36 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 01:17:32 -!- black0ut [~black0ut@p5DDDAAF7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 01:17:47 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.189.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:18:41 Fare [~fare@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:20:43 jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:24:16 -!- sohail_ [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:25:19 normanrichards [~textual@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 01:25:44 dustmop [~dlong@cpe-72-227-131-46.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:27:23 -_- 01:27:33 hello 01:28:16 -!- jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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[~bgs@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: bgs100] 04:33:39 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 04:33:58 morning beach 04:36:57 -!- sikilpaake [~carlos@177.229.230.254] has left #lisp 04:37:15 splittist: What's up? 04:37:50 me, unfortunately. 04:38:55 Oh :( 04:40:37 -!- nipra [~nipra@122.177.3.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:42:02 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.199.41] has joined #lisp 04:42:39 -!- klltkr_ [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 04:48:29 Hmm. I find it quite useful when I look at comments in code and they are signed and dated. This information could be recovered from the logs, but it is quite nice to have it right there when reading the code. 04:49:02 I tend not to do that myself though. Perhaps because with most of the code I write, I am the only author. 04:49:14 For McCLIM, though, I think I'll start doing that. 04:50:42 Codynyx [~cody@c-50-188-34-170.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:51:04 -!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Quit: reboot] 04:52:07 Like a distributed ChangeLog? 04:52:27 Exactly! 04:53:08 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-50-188-34-170.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:53:19 I think perhaps it is not useful for *all* comments, though. 04:53:20 -!- ft [~ft@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:53:47 andreh [~andreh@189.27.30.189.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 04:54:25 -!- jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 04:54:26 ft [~ft@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has joined #lisp 04:55:08 -!- eee-blt [U2FsdGVkX1@ma.sdf.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:55:41 If you had a unique mapping from initials to author in the file - in the initial copyright section, for example - and encoded those and a full timestamp in a couple of unicode 'characters', it wouldn't take much room (: 04:56:29 Heh, yeah, sure. Not that concerned about the space, though. 04:57:07 McCLIM developers seem to have been quite wasteful when it comes to space in source code. 04:57:24 brandonz [~brandon@c-50-131-126-204.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:57:29 I guess the editor should be responsible for displaying or hiding such visual clutter... 04:57:50 aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 04:58:09 Codynyx [~cody@c-50-188-34-170.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:58:10 Well, if it is truly just clutter, it probably shouldn't be there in the first place. 05:02:53 Knowing this comment is by 'Robert Strandh -- 2014-02-16T05:58+01:00' is not, usually, going to be helpful, even if sometimes vital. 05:03:36 True, the time zone and the time of day might not be useful. 05:05:32 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-50-131-126-204.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:05:35 p_nathan [~Adium@174-21-165-174.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:48 davazp [~user@77.Red-88-23-190.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 05:06:23 -!- JuanDaugherty [~juand@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:09:08 -!- andreh [~andreh@189.27.30.189.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:17:54 TDog [~chatzilla@67-1-221-94.tcso.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:19:17 -!- davazp [~user@77.Red-88-23-190.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:21:21 I try to make my comments of eternal value, so I don't have to timestamp them :-) 05:21:31 -!- zophy [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:21:33 heh! 05:24:26 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:24:51 ggole [~ggole@203-59-121-240.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:26:30 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 05:28:00 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:29:21 -!- TDog 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[~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 08:29:33 -!- tumba [~user@108-237-52-120.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 08:29:41 stepnem [~stepnem@77.78.117.8] has joined #lisp 08:35:31 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:39:10 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 08:40:13 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:40:34 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 08:41:28 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:41:35 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 08:45:28 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 08:45:59 I've been faffing about tonight and trying to get Lispdev/Cusp running: https://bitbucket.org/pnathan/lispdev/ 08:48:18 mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.122] has joined #lisp 08:49:42 shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-pbyvoqjnpcmbslza] has joined #lisp 08:54:49 p_nathan: Any success? 08:55:46 nichtdiebohne [~nichtdieb@kons-4d026de9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:56:11 -!- mksan [~fabian@1-1-10-33a.rny.sth.bostream.se] has left #lisp 08:56:50 I can build it in the latest Eclipse, woop dee doo 08:57:00 M00R1Z [~M00R1Z@213.219.156.4.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 08:57:03 Congratulations! 08:57:07 TDog [~chatzilla@67-1-221-94.tcso.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 08:57:07 I need to figure out how it interfaces with SBCL and see if I can convince it to boot SBCL 08:58:23 I want to get it to a minimally usable state and release a new version of it as such - if enough interest spawns, I will probably try to maintain it 08:59:26 Sounds like a good plan. 09:00:59 -!- M00R1Z [~M00R1Z@213.219.156.4.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 09:02:41 vkrest_ [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:02:47 Jarod_ [~jarod_ch@60.180.196.121] has 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Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.235.172] has joined #lisp 09:35:28 fikusz [~fikusz@catv-213-222-190-187.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 09:39:35 -!- jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 09:42:22 whirl [~joseph@AR1.Terravita.reallyfast.net] has joined #lisp 09:42:33 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-28.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:43:14 fikusz_ [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 09:44:26 -!- fikusz [~fikusz@catv-213-222-190-187.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:46:27 ggole [~ggole@106-69-87-235.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 09:46:45 M00R1Z [~M00R1Z@213.219.156.4.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:47:32 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.206.246] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:51:21 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:52:00 zfx [~zfx@host86-153-170-242.range86-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:56:04 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 09:56:29 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:00:22 Ayey_ [~rune1@2-106-141-211-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #lisp 10:09:05 -!- r0b1 [~robert@subtle/contributor/robgleeson] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:11:58 CADD [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has joined #lisp 10:11:58 -!- CADD [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has quit [Client Quit] 10:15:02 it's also a bit depressing to come across FIXME comments signed and dated, by me, from a decade ago 10:15:03 ymmv 10:15:49 Krystof: At least you're still at it... 10:18:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:18:52 Although I suppose that could be a depressing rather than a comforting sentiment... 10:19:49 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:19:51 the-exot [~user@port-92-195-120-112.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 10:19:52 vaporatorius [~vaporator@209.Red-81-36-13.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:20:42 -!- the-exot [~user@port-92-195-120-112.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Client Quit] 10:21:23 Joreji [~thomas@173-254.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 10:24:08 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:27:03 grepping for your initials as Louise Elisabeth Thompson in a lisp buffer must be frustrating... 10:29:08 *splittist* was imagining Xof looking for "c.*r"... 10:32:29 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-185-31.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:33:06 -!- BlackWabi [~wabi@c83-191-78-163.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:35:08 BlackWabi [~wabi@c83-191-78-163.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 10:36:42 -!- whirl [~joseph@AR1.Terravita.reallyfast.net] has quit [Quit: sleep] 10:37:00 matko [~matko@ip82-139-125-221.lijbrandt.net] has joined #lisp 10:38:48 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@197.Red-79-156-52.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 10:40:21 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:5d2a:77f0:fbde:e401] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:41:39 -!- Ayey_ [~rune1@2-106-141-211-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 10:43:17 -!- QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:45:25 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:46:33 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-185-31.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 10:46:55 -!- Watcher7 [~w@108.216.28.176] has quit [Quit: h] 10:48:37 zophy [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 10:51:30 splittist: maybe best that my first-choice naming scheme for my children was vetoed 10:54:25 -!- arubin [~textual@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 10:55:25 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 10:56:41 Krystof: yeah, calling little UPDATE-INSTANCE-FOR-REDEFINED-CLASS and UPDATE-INSTANCE-FOR-DIFFERENT-CLASS in for dinner could get old quick (: 10:56:53 heh! 10:57:53 meh, that's just as simple as calling out NOTE-OUTPUT-RECORD-CHILD-CHANGED! 10:58:41 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:58:43 wouldn't be so bad if you used SLIME fuzzy completion... 10:59:41 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:00:38 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-185-31.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:02:35 Ayey_ [~rune1@2-106-141-211-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #lisp 11:03:36 CADD [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has joined #lisp 11:04:00 -!- CADD is now known as Guest34605 11:05:59 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-185-31.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:08:26 CADD__ [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has joined #lisp 11:08:39 -!- CADD__ [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has quit [Client Quit] 11:08:41 -!- Guest34605 [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:08:45 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 11:12:21 -!- M00R1Z [~M00R1Z@213.219.156.4.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Quit: M00R1Z] 11:12:38 astalla [~alessio@93.56.24.42] has joined #lisp 11:13:32 -!- vaporatorius [~vaporator@209.Red-81-36-13.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 11:14:53 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.235.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:19:11 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.89.211] has joined #lisp 11:23:23 nilsi_ [~nilsi@112.222.211.114] has joined #lisp 11:25:18 dmiles [~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:25:36 M00R1Z [~M00R1Z@213.219.156.4.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 11:26:01 KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9D428.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:26:01 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-185-31.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:26:10 Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.235.172] has joined #lisp 11:27:27 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:27:41 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:32:54 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:34:46 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 11:35:43 klltkr_ [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 11:38:36 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:39:51 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:40:28 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 11:42:08 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #lisp 11:43:00 Could someone please help me read and interpret this page: http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/ensure-generic-function-using-class.html 11:43:34 tried interpreting it, got "The variable GENERIC is unbound." 11:44:40 I want to know if it means that the name of the generic function must be set AFTER a call to MAKE-INSTANCE, or if it is OK to pass it as an :INITARG to MAKE-INSTANCE. 11:45:33 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:45:59 At first I "interpreted" it to mean the former, but I think they meant the latter, especially since that's what they do in all examples. 11:46:23 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 11:47:13 but can you even set it? 11:47:32 There is no specified function to do it, but I can add one. 11:47:59 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.235.172] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:47:59 So you would go for the latter as well, I take it. 11:48:27 i would, because it's easier 11:48:36 Yes, definitely. 11:48:39 Thanks. 11:48:58 and things like initialize-instance get a chance to see it 11:49:06 Yep. 11:50:26 i'm just confused on the relationship between function-name and :name 11:51:54 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:52:40 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 11:57:27 -!- Joreji [~thomas@173-254.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:57:39 -!- sellout- [~Adium@2601:1:9b80:128:49f2:4be1:ca41:fc9c] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:57:49 so, (progn (defgeneric a ()) (print (closer-mop:ensure-generic-function-using-class nil 'b :name 'c)) (print (closer-mop:ensure-generic-function-using-class #'a 'b :name 'c))) => 11:57:58 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:57:58 # # 11:58:02 (apparently) 11:58:48 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 11:59:03 on ECL it's # # 11:59:05 go figure 11:59:11 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-185-31.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:59:36 beach: all hail the ambiguity of MOP 12:00:01 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@174-21-165-174.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:00:28 but i would say that ECL is wrong here 12:00:35 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:00:55 stassats: Definitely not as precise as the CLHS. 12:01:39 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.185.228] has joined #lisp 12:01:39 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.185.228] has quit [Changing host] 12:01:39 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 12:01:42 i'll report that to ECL, but the new maintainers seem to be nonfunctional 12:03:43 sbcl directly passes :name function-name, but under closer reading, it seems that it has to pass :name name, if it's supplied, and only then set the name to function-name 12:03:56 which seems a bit silly thing to do 12:04:01 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:05:16 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:05:34 sellout- [~Adium@c-67-176-56-71.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:57 I think you are right that ECL is wrong. 12:07:23 -!- vkrest_ [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:09:04 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.89.211] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:09:29 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-218-254.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:10:45 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:11:31 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:11:34 ECL and SBCL's implementation is different 12:11:46 TDog_ [~chatzilla@67-1-221-94.tcso.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 12:11:52 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@67-1-221-94.tcso.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:12:00 -!- TDog_ is now known as TDog 12:13:57 beach: were you asking because you are implementing CLOS? 12:15:10 http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/ could use some explanatory annotations for things like that 12:16:21 JuanDaugherty [~juand@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:16:31 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:17:45 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:20:48 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:21:25 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-153-38.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:23:10 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:24:11 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:28:50 QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:28:53 denis [~u@109.105.161.239] has joined #lisp 12:29:24 anyone found that parenface.el works in emacs-lisp-mode, lisp-interaction-mode and scheme-mode, but not in lisp-mode? 12:29:33 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:30:22 QwertyDragon_ [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:30:24 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:30:45 TDog_ [~chatzilla@67-1-221-94.tcso.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 12:30:49 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@67-1-221-94.tcso.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:30:59 -!- TDog_ is now known as TDog 12:31:40 hiroakip [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-218-254.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 12:32:41 -!- denis [~u@109.105.161.239] has quit [Client Quit] 12:32:59 denis [~u@109.105.161.239] has joined #lisp 12:34:15 -!- QwertyDragon_ [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:35:24 -!- denis [~u@109.105.161.239] has quit [Client Quit] 12:35:42 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@112.222.211.114] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:35:42 denis [~u@109.105.161.239] has joined #lisp 12:35:46 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:36:09 nilsi_ [~nilsi@112.222.211.114] has joined #lisp 12:36:36 antonv [~user@93.171.161.176] has joined #lisp 12:36:38 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:38:54 -!- denis [~u@109.105.161.239] has quit [Client Quit] 12:39:15 denis [~u@109.105.161.239] has joined #lisp 12:39:57 nilsi__ [~nilsi@112.222.211.114] has joined #lisp 12:40:33 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@112.222.211.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:42:11 -!- justinmcp [~quassel@linkylinky.com] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 12:42:25 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:42:36 justinmcp [quassel@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:3fac] has joined #lisp 12:42:55 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:47:29 -!- dlowe [dlowe@digital.sanctuary.org] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 12:47:35 dlowe [dlowe@digital.sanctuary.org] has joined #lisp 12:48:11 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:49:02 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:51:06 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:51:28 zygentoma [~kvirc@dslb-092-077-081-070.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:51:56 LiamH [~none@96.231.217.60] has joined #lisp 12:53:12 -!- ec_ [~elliottca@ell.io] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:53:45 ec [~elliottca@ell.io] has joined #lisp 12:53:48 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-176-94.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:54:06 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:54:18 -!- nilsi__ [~nilsi@112.222.211.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:55:24 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:00:26 kenanb [~user@unaffiliated/kenanb] has joined #lisp 13:00:34 is mcclim wiki down? 13:00:35 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:00:38 I can't reach it 13:00:49 is there any backup somewhere? or an alternative url? 13:00:53 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.206.246] has joined #lisp 13:00:53 i can't reach it since long too... 13:01:07 damn 13:01:20 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:03:08 Twipply [~Twipply3@cpc17-mapp10-2-0-cust179.12-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:28 hi 13:03:46 I'm spawning an irc connection in a thread 13:04:02 when I try to attach to the thread, or kill it, in slime-list-threads 13:04:13 I get "Buffer *slime-threads* has no process" 13:04:20 so I can't debug at all :\ 13:04:28 any pointer? 13:05:38 Ralt, I know very little about these things but I can suggest that you make sure you have the latest slime 13:06:06 oh, it's been a while since I didn't update, might be it 13:06:30 thanks 13:06:57 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:07:44 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:10:41 kenanb: What were you planning to do with the McCLIM wiki? 13:11:10 beach: I am trying to look for the docs on switching backends 13:11:25 aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 13:12:01 *beach* is not sure what the wiki contains. 13:12:33 kenanb: "switching" as in using a different existing one, or as in writing a new one? 13:12:34 *kenanb* is 100% sure there was at leastsome info on backends 13:12:45 former 13:12:50 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:13:26 of course the letter one would also help in the long run 13:14:01 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:14:19 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-185-31.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:14:24 kenanb: You would have to use ASDF to build the backend code. 13:14:25 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-133-3.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:15:43 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:17:25 kenanb: Then, if I read the documentation correctly, you would either have to pass the server path to find-port or set the variable *default-server-path* before you open the connection. 13:17:57 -!- aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 13:18:15 jewel_: hmf. Updating slime was a thing to do, indeed. 13:18:21 Some stuff can't even compile anymore. 13:18:40 :P 13:18:44 iolib.syscalls 13:18:45 brb 13:18:46 slime doesn't compile? 13:19:01 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:19:26 kenanb: As in (let ((*default-server-path* ( ...))) (run-frame-top-level ....)) 13:20:07 Ralt: you don't have libfixposix 13:20:08 beach: hmm, thanks, I am also looking into the docs in the repo itself now, maybe same info in wiki is provided there 13:20:15 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:20:27 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-218-254.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:20:35 kenanb: McCLIM follows the spec, and this stuff is in the spec. 13:21:01 kenanb: http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/clim-spec/9-2.html#_456 13:22:23 hiroakip [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-218-254.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 13:23:09 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-218-254.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:23:12 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.206.246] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:23:23 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.206.246] has joined #lisp 13:24:07 -!- Ayey_ [~rune1@2-106-141-211-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 13:25:39 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:25:47 hiroakip [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-218-254.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 13:26:19 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:26:46 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 13:26:52 WarWeasle [~bbeer@172.242.21.170] has joined #lisp 13:29:11 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:46 davazp [~user@77.Red-88-23-190.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:17 -!- zfx [~zfx@host86-153-170-242.range86-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:31:35 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:32:00 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 13:33:55 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:35:06 Another MOP question: Is an IMPLEMENTATION allowed to provide an :AROUND method on INITIALIZE-INSTANCE specialized to STANDARD-CLASS that does error checking and that supplies the default list of superclasses etc.? 13:35:12 I am thinking yes. 13:35:39 i see nothing preventing that 13:35:41 ... which would make it unnecessary to have a :WRITER on some of the class slots. 13:35:47 -!- michael_lee [~michael_l@222.90.49.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:36:22 stassats: Great! Thanks again for helping me out. 13:37:36 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 13:38:31 -!- BlackWabi [~wabi@c83-191-78-163.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:39:11 but if you mean literally STANDARD-CLASS, then that means you're controlling it and why not use the primary method instead? 13:40:54 Hmm, yes I see. Have a primary method specialized to STANDARD-CLASS and have it call CALL-NEXT-METHOD (which would be the one specialized to STANDARD-OBJECT)? 13:42:39 *beach* gets confused between classes and metaclasses sometimes. 13:43:27 portable programs can't have primary methods on metaclasses, but if you're the implementer, you have a say in this 13:43:46 Yes. 13:44:16 It seems the two solutions accomplish the same thing and are both permitted. 13:47:14 beach: ah, found it, after loading the backend system (setq clim:*default-server-path* '(:clx)) also does the job 13:47:37 beach: haha, that was exactly what you told :D sorry 13:47:52 kenanb: Indeed! :) 13:48:18 beach: if there are no before or after methods 13:48:50 beach: only clx works in my case, probably most of them were dead-ends already 13:49:37 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:43 stassats: Yeah, that would have to be taken into account. 13:49:49 the idea behind clim and presentations is great really, I wish we had a more solid FOSS implementation 13:50:05 garnet still seems to be maintained tho 13:50:14 kenanb: I am working on it. Making McCLIM more solid that is. 13:50:56 beach: are you talking about climatis? 13:51:04 or is it another person's project? 13:51:31 beach: that is awesome news really! 13:51:34 kenanb: CLIMatis is also my project. But I recently took on the job as McCLIM maintainer as well. 13:52:16 wow! so any pointers to somewhere that I can watch the news? 13:52:46 https://github.com/robert-strandh/McCLIM for now. 13:52:49 please to that! a solid clim is an awesome thing to have 13:53:04 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:53:15 kenanb: It will take me some time because of the state of the existing code. 13:53:36 beach: I can see that :) 13:53:36 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.206.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:54:33 beach: btw any hope that folder names will be lowercased? it seems to suit the current convention better 13:54:57 Really? 13:55:17 I don't know, most of the project I see use full lowercase I guess 13:55:43 zfx [~zfx@host86-153-170-242.range86-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:55:44 I am not sure now that you asked if it is really so :) 13:55:46 I guess in that case I would have to check out the options to `ls' so that I can list the subdirectories separetly. 13:55:55 vaporatorius [~vaporator@125.Red-83-44-134.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:56:22 Right now I typically rely on directories starting with a capital letter. 13:56:50 Anyway, that seems to me a much lower priority than the rest :) 13:57:08 TDog_ [~chatzilla@67-1-221-94.tcso.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 13:57:14 hmm, don't count on my word on convention really 13:57:27 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@67-1-221-94.tcso.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:57:36 -!- TDog_ is now known as TDog 13:57:36 I wouldn't without verifying. No offense. 13:57:37 tarkus [~hello@109.230.140.12] has joined #lisp 13:58:01 How to execute a command in MIT-GNU Schema? Pressing Enter just writes a new line 13:58:16 tarkus: wrong channel 13:58:25 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:00:15 beach: none taken, I am a humble soul beneath the wisdom of hardcore lispers, trying to cdddddddr its way through to jungle of computer science. 14:00:17 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:00:51 -!- shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-pbyvoqjnpcmbslza] has quit [Quit: shridhar] 14:00:51 and you are right on the point on priority 14:01:15 shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-bqqmzwvskzkiqkxc] has joined #lisp 14:01:46 Denommus [~AndChat67@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 14:01:50 kenanb: No reason you should remain in that state forever. One of these days, you might even contribute to McCLIM. 14:01:57 beach: --group-directories-first 14:02:02 sdemarre [~serge@98.165-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 14:02:29 stassats: Thanks. 14:03:30 beach: I hope so :) have been using CL for 7 years now, tho still considering myself merely a hobbyist because of my lack of CS education. 14:03:47 elfenixtorres [~vantage@170.Red-88-1-26.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:03:58 CS education is not necessary for CL 14:04:04 kenanb: Oh, I think you are in good company. 14:04:26 CS education can mean much less than you think 14:04:59 I still insist that the best thing I got from uni is the access to the library ;) 14:05:39 for the money it usually costs you could buy all the books 14:06:06 Not for the cost of it in most European countries. 14:06:09 beach: I remember my first time in the channel, and in emacs, getting bashed by stassats for accidentally copy-pasting the whole channel list as a chat entry to channel :D 14:06:45 stassats: I haven't paid a pence for tuition 14:06:46 kenanb: Accidents happen. But yes, to do it the first time is kind of embarrassing. 14:06:48 kenanb: ah, so it was you 14:06:53 Denommus: :D 14:07:07 p_l: maybe that's why you aren't so fond of it 14:07:09 kenanb: it's a common affliction of people using ERC, too 14:08:01 stassats: no, the reason why is because the first two years had majorly uninteresting stuff when it came to CS, except maybe two courses. The good stuff started in 3rd year 14:08:24 and I had a lot of... adventures of the bad kind that soured the experience 14:08:41 kenanb: I see in the logs that you and I discussed McCLIM already in 2009. 14:09:36 and I remember beach having students in the channel and searching if laboratory of science in Bordeaux uni accepts people from exteremely unrelated majors to master, in case I can learn from a lisper :) 14:09:52 beach: probably, maybe even several times 14:10:12 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-218-254.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:10:15 good old days :) 14:10:28 At least "old" :) 14:10:51 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:59 p_l: I completely agree to the point on library access, that may be the reason behind me still not graduating from architecture :D 14:12:10 TDog_ [~chatzilla@67-1-221-94.tcso.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:12 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@67-1-221-94.tcso.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:12:13 -!- TDog_ is now known as TDog 14:12:27 tho graduating and applying to master would be a better approach really :) 14:12:46 -!- antonv [~user@93.171.161.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:14:30 while on that topic, has anyone collated a list of CS (or other) Uni departmens with CL on the curriculum, or somewhere else on their agenda? 14:15:04 it's a good thing I changed my nickname after first two years of my CL education so at least part of the completely embarrassing stuff is lost in history :) 14:15:19 BlackWabi [~wabi@c83-191-78-163.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 14:15:27 even if there's CL on the curriculum, i wouldn't expect it to be any good 14:15:32 ck``: I don't think there's much CL. Scheme is still showing up in places, sometimes as an extra course (MIT). I'd be *very* wary of courses mentioning "LISP" 14:15:46 yes 14:16:14 ck``: some of them are of the quality that makes me suggest to students that they should sit on lectures with big transparent saying "you're using words. I don't think you know what they mean" 14:16:32 stassats: What we have been doing in Bordeaux for the past 15 or so years was not too bad. But I think this is the end of it. 14:16:40 I guess what I really meant is "how to look for a graduate school where an advisor does not stare blankly when one mentions common lisp" 14:17:25 ck``: Are you in the USA? 14:17:42 beach, no, I'm in germany 14:18:24 I know at least two universities that have an important course given using lisp in Turkey, both use Scheme though. There are some academics that use CL heavily but probably failed to make it into the course stuff. 14:18:39 Davidbrcz [~david@88.95.11.109.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:41 -!- denis [~u@109.105.161.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:20:57 -!- elfenixtorres [~vantage@170.Red-88-1-26.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:22:24 ivan-kanis [~user@lns-c10k-ft-02-t2-89-83-137-164.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 14:22:47 How do I get the first n element of a list, copy or destructive I don't care 14:22:58 -!- klltkr_ [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 14:23:28 ivan-kanis: subseq 14:23:37 (loop repeat n for elt in list collect elt) 14:23:53 Yeah, or subseq 14:24:08 s/or// 14:25:12 H4ns: merci 14:26:53 Destructive would be (setf (cdr (nthcdr (1- n) list)) nil), I guess. 14:27:25 -!- BlackWabi [~wabi@c83-191-78-163.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:27:43 chris stephenson, the ex dean of cs in Bilgi University is a huge lisp fan, so sheme is heavily used there, and also in Bogazici University, probably just because they know their stuff 14:28:00 Nope, won't handle 0 right. 14:29:11 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c156-108.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:29:27 -!- ASau` [~user@p54AFEE4D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:29:36 What would be some good names for a class that is a common superclass of STANDARD-CLASS and FUNCALLABLE-STANDARD-CLASS? 14:29:50 -!- M00R1Z [~M00R1Z@213.219.156.4.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Quit: M00R1Z] 14:29:50 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:29:50 beach: should I switch to your MCCLIM repo directly or should I stick with the one in quicklisp? 14:29:50 beach: I believe directly switching to your repo is a better idea. 14:29:52 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 14:30:12 beach: CLASS? 14:30:41 peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c156-108.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 14:30:49 stassats: No, that already exists, and it includes BUILT-IN-CLASS and FORWARD-REFERENCED-CLASS as well. 14:30:53 denis [~u@109.105.166.252] has joined #lisp 14:31:14 kenanb: I don't think it matters much right now. Furthermore, I think Xach wants to use the new repository for quicklisp. 14:31:15 so? 14:31:45 stassats: Oh, sorry, I meant to say "excluding b-i-c and f-r-c" 14:32:25 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:33:18 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@67-1-221-94.tcso.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:33:24 -!- mal___ [mal@2001:41d0:1:66c4::1] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:33:40 yrk [~user@c-71-235-189-64.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:33:56 -!- yrk [~user@c-71-235-189-64.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:33:56 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 14:34:24 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:36:33 standard-class is a superclass of funcallable-standard-class 14:36:54 wait 14:37:04 prxq [~mommer@x2f6baab.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lisp 14:37:12 I am wrong 14:37:40 ASau [~user@p54AFEE4D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:37:51 PCL has STD-CLASS, for what it's worth 14:38:06 For what I was asking about? 14:38:07 yes 14:38:21 Hmm, OK. Not great, but possible. 14:38:25 it's not a great name, but STANDARD-CLASS is clearly the right name :-) 14:38:36 Yes, I know :) 14:38:46 I suppose CLOS-CLASS might work too 14:38:58 Not bad. 14:39:31 beach: why not make f-r-c and b-i-c have another superclass? 14:39:40 Allegro also uses STD-CLASS for what you're asking aobut 14:40:58 stassats: I would like to specialize methods that are common to S-C and F-S-C on a common class. 14:41:19 *beach* is looking up synonyms for `standard'. 14:42:03 what you need are generalized specializers! 14:42:04 `regular' is not bad. 14:42:19 then you could write (defmethod foo ((x (or standard-class funcallable-standard-class))) ...) 14:42:26 Krystof: Yeah, thanks :) 14:42:29 FUNCALLABLE-AND-STANDARD-CLASS 14:42:54 stassats: OR rather than AND, no? 14:43:05 beach: well, it would be just as portable as inserting extra superclasses into those standardized classes 14:43:32 Krystof: Inserting extra superclasses is explicitly allowed. 14:43:39 for the implementation 14:43:49 if you're the implementor, go right ahead :) 14:44:01 Hmm. 14:44:29 I actually like REGULAR-CLASS a bit. 14:44:53 beach: btw, as a humble suggestion, seperating the repo to several repos like clim-core, clim-contrib, clim-applications, clim-unmaintained, clim-experimental might be a good idea. though there might be drawbacks I am unable to see 14:45:23 kenanb: Yes, definitely on my list of things to do. 14:45:27 looking at the repo mcclim is a huge beast to maintain properly 14:45:29 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 14:45:34 kenanb: Not sure exactly how, but something like that. 14:46:08 kenanb: Yes, and the dependencies in the ASDF system are often wrong. 14:49:02 and it is always better to explain the situation as "everything loaded when you load clim-core repo works like a charm, etc etc", instead of explaining the situation when everything is in one repo, even from a marketing point of view 14:49:03 hiroakip [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-218-254.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 14:49:12 s/better/easier :) 14:49:58 i don't think this is the problem mcclim faces 14:50:36 kenanb: There are already different ASDF systems, but they are all in the same asdf file, and their components are often in the same directory. 14:50:52 logand [~user@f053072069.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:51:49 -!- Denommus [~AndChat67@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:52:16 beach: btw I may design a new logo for the new mcclim if you would like that :) I designed the new logo for stumpwm: http://kenanb.com/static/img/stumpwm.png and the logo of hy programming language, which is lisp that compiles to python ast: http://www.kenanb.com/posts/Hy-Programming-Language-Logo.html 14:53:14 kenanb: They look nice! 14:53:26 Sure, we can discuss that if you want. 14:53:31 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:54:03 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-218-254.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:54:15 kenanb: my eyes do stump indeed when trying to read that 14:54:15 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 14:54:17 stassats: and the real problem mcclim faces is? I guess your criticizm is around a more fundamental level, even not about the implementation but the specification? 14:54:29 hiroakip [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-218-254.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 14:55:31 kenanb: Enumerating all the problems would take a lot of space. 14:55:36 hlavaty [~user@f053072069.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:55:53 -!- hlavaty [~user@f053072069.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 14:55:57 kenanb: buggy, hardly usable, slow, etc. 14:55:59 -!- logand [~user@f053072069.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:56:16 kenanb: The specification is ambiguous, incomplete, and self-contradictory. 14:56:20 stassats: most of the alternatives were sad, I had to do a quick mockup, I am not 100% proud of it, but I think it is better than most of these: https://github.com/sabetts/stumpwm/wiki/NewLogo 14:56:56 kenanb: And what stassats says. 14:58:12 kenanb: While you are at it, why not come up with logos for CLIM3 and CLIMatis as well. 14:59:03 -!- guardianx [guardian@124-171-208-210.dyn.iinet.net.au] has left #lisp 14:59:15 beach stassats I agree to all your statements :) I am even shocked how it does even work the way it works now, but just using the clim-listener for a few minutes makes you want to use clim 15:00:42 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5059:6770:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:47 It is easy to agree what the problems are. More important is to figure out how to fix them. 15:00:56 beach: ofcourse, but I am confused, I thought after you started maintaining MCCLIM, all these will be merged as a single project, will you be maintaining mcclim, and create a new clim around your clim3 specfication, which will be CLIMatis? 15:01:00 SMOP 15:01:31 stassats: libfixposix fixed it, thanks 15:02:13 Not merged, because it is not possible. McCLIM is and will be an implementation of the CLIM II spec. CLIMatis is an implementation of the CLIM3 spec (which is not complete yet, and which will be quite different from CLIM II). 15:02:29 -!- X-Scale [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:02:48 kenanb: I do hope to share some code base though. 15:03:46 beach: but it shares the same principles, right? like presentations and stuff 15:03:55 Yes, of course. 15:04:00 ah, great 15:06:27 Time for a break. BBL. 15:06:47 and I gtg. later! thanks for the answers folks :) 15:07:18 -!- kenanb [~user@unaffiliated/kenanb] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:07:43 -!- tarkus [~hello@109.230.140.12] has quit [] 15:08:25 lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:31 I have an :around method and I don't want to call the next method, how do I use (no-next-method)? 15:09:44 I'm still calling the base method 15:09:56 eh? 15:11:49 klltkr_ [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 15:11:54 Also, no-next-method says it needs 2 variables but I can't find an example. 15:12:06 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:12:07 you're doing something strange 15:13:09 -!- davazp [~user@77.Red-88-23-190.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:13:35 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 15:13:58 stassats: Well, I have a lookup table in the base class and sometimes I need to short circuit that lookup in the child class. 15:14:34 stassats: So I want to return directly from the child's method. 15:14:43 then do so 15:15:22 stassats: So not calling (call-next-class) should do what I want? 15:15:57 it's call-next-method 15:16:20 i suggest you refresh your understanding of how methods are selected and called 15:16:24 and if you don't use (call-next-method) it won't call the next method 15:16:51 Ok, I have it working in my test method. 15:17:04 Maybe I'm doing something wrong in my package. 15:20:47 -!- zophy [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:22:13 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@88.95.11.109.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:23:46 Ok, for some reason, in a package, symbols get the package name prepended even if it's just a (cond ((eql 'symbol-name var).... 15:24:08 eh? again 15:24:21 Denommus [~AndChat67@177-208-111-82.user3g.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #lisp 15:24:21 -!- Denommus [~AndChat67@177-208-111-82.user3g.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Changing host] 15:24:21 Denommus [~AndChat67@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 15:24:33 Any my cond keeps falling trough to the default which calls the next method. 15:25:20 stassats: If I don't export window-width in my package, then I must put 'package:window-height or I can't match 'window-height in my method. 15:25:31 -!- klltkr_ [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:25:47 you need to refresh your package knowledge as well 15:26:48 Joreji [~thomas@173-254.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 15:28:06 you also may want to learn about eql-specializers 15:28:44 eql-specializers. got it. 15:31:13 genericus [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:31:17 since i'm new i will also look at eql-specializers :D 15:34:22 klltkr_ [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 15:34:49 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:34:54 -!- Ethan- [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:38:03 davazp [~user@77.Red-88-23-190.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:40:47 patapon [~deglingo@ALille-251-1-119-88.w86-208.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:40:58 mal__ [mal@2001:41d0:1:66c4::1] has joined #lisp 15:43:53 dustmop [~dlong@cpe-72-227-131-46.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:45:18 add^_ [~user@m176-70-192-216.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 15:45:43 doomlord_ [~servitor@host109-151-65-32.range109-151.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 15:48:14 black0ut [~black0ut@p5DDDB9FB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:48:32 Denommus` [~AndChat67@189-48-183-107.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #lisp 15:48:32 -!- Denommus` [~AndChat67@189-48-183-107.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Changing host] 15:48:32 Denommus` [~AndChat67@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 15:51:15 -!- Denommus [~AndChat67@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:51:24 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:15 -!- Twipply [~Twipply3@cpc17-mapp10-2-0-cust179.12-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:53:57 Is there a way to find out some context information (function call, variable values, anything) when I get a corruption warning? E.g., from "Memory fault at f69d3548 (pc=0x7ffff69b5335, sp=0x7ffff69d3550)" 15:57:00 back 15:58:03 LiamH: depends on the implementation. better as on the implementation specific channel. 15:58:16 In general, the answer is yes. 15:58:32 But it's complicated, and involves low level debugging. 15:58:35 OK, off to #sbcl 15:58:40 LiamH: back 15:58:51 stassats: ? 15:59:02 it's the bloody answer to your question 15:59:28 if the memory fault got you into LDB, you type back 15:59:38 It did not. 16:00:10 It got me to "The integrity of this image is possibly compromised. 16:00:10 Continuing with fingers crossed." 16:00:11 then it got a normal debugger, which is either handled by slime, or again "back" 16:00:27 No, I got to the normal REPL. 16:01:03 then you're either using ignore-errors or handler-bind/case 16:01:09 in which case, you should stop and repeat 16:04:03 -!- dustmop [~dlong@cpe-72-227-131-46.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 16:04:55 zophy [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:02 In fact I am not. I was running SBCL from the shell, and that does not put me in the debugger. In slime, I do get the debugger, and it says "Backtrace: 16:05:02 [No backtrace]" 16:05:21 Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 16:06:57 I have a weird issue: when ql:quickload'ing, the easy-handlers of hunchentoot are not compiled. I get a 500 error. I have to manually compile the easy-handler to get it working 16:07:19 Ralt: did you include them into your .asd file? 16:07:20 well, only one actually. 16:07:30 stassats: let me double check 16:07:37 and are you using different names for define-easy-handler functions? 16:07:39 yep 16:07:45 and yes 16:07:52 I have 2 define-easy-handler 16:07:55 not only that, the old way of putting things under asdf:*central-registry* is that supposed to be recursive for a directory ? 16:07:56 one is working, the other isn't 16:08:08 one is just a (redirect) to the other 16:08:10 i do put a dir there but it's not recursive.... 16:08:17 Ralt: and how do they look? 16:08:18 the second uses cl-who to show some html 16:08:18 -!- rainbyte [~rainbyte@190.191.81.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:09:00 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-218-254.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:09:30 and you do not actually have to use redirects if you want the same thing to have two urls 16:09:38 oh 16:09:50 hm, no I want one to redirect 16:10:12 and that's the one not working: https://github.com/Ralt/lbnc/blob/master/http.lisp#L11-L20 16:10:46 and sometimes it works. 16:10:52 that's the weirdest, really 16:10:58 / matches /chat 16:11:57 uh? 16:13:22 rainbyte [~rainbyte@190.191.81.229] has joined #lisp 16:13:45 and your redirect is not prefixed with hunchentoot: 16:13:45 when quickloading it doesn't work, if I compile with C-c C-c the "chat" easy-handler, it works 16:13:51 yep, just fixed that 16:14:08 I removed hunchentoot from :use a few minutes ago 16:14:14 forgot this one 16:16:47 Ralt: what about https://github.com/Ralt/lbnc/blob/master/ws.lisp#L30 ? 16:17:06 -!- Joreji [~thomas@173-254.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:18:42 -!- denis [~u@109.105.166.252] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:18:46 stassats: nope, it's run on 1102: https://github.com/Ralt/lbnc/blob/master/ws.lisp#L5-L7 16:18:54 denis [~u@109.105.166.252] has joined #lisp 16:20:25 -!- Denommus` [~AndChat67@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:20:32 stassats: thanks for the clues, I'll keep digging a little :) 16:20:44 Ralt: ok then, (setf hunchentoot:*catch-errors-p* nil) 16:21:31 Denommus [~AndChat67@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 16:22:10 stassats: nice, I'll try that 16:23:10 michael_lee [~michael_l@222.90.49.113] has joined #lisp 16:24:48 nug700 [~nug700@71-223-97-227.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:53 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:25:45 innertracks [~Thunderbi@174-21-153-156.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:34 -!- sdemarre [~serge@98.165-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:32:37 sohail_ [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 16:33:25 Watcher7 [~w@108.216.28.176] has joined #lisp 16:34:21 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:34:42 -!- michael_lee [~michael_l@222.90.49.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:35:31 urandom__ [~user@p548A2EEA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:36:02 TDog [~chatzilla@174-30-158-186.tcso.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:45 stassats: fixed it, the defmacro page had to be done before the easy-handlers 16:38:59 duh 16:39:01 michael_lee [~michael_l@222.90.49.113] has joined #lisp 16:39:12 or there was an error saying (:div) undefined 16:39:24 no idea why this fixes it :\ 16:39:26 Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.235.172] has joined #lisp 16:40:23 -!- patapon [~deglingo@ALille-251-1-119-88.w86-208.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:41:11 -!- WarWeasle [~bbeer@172.242.21.170] has left #lisp 16:41:26 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-133-3.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:41:44 now onto seeing why the irc connection works in the REPL, but not in the code.. 16:44:36 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the 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#lisp 17:11:13 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:11:30 -!- Cromulent [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:12:43 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:13:18 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 17:14:19 silenus [~jl@41.251.56.35] has joined #lisp 17:14:54 cdidd [~cdidd@128-75-237-85.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 17:15:02 harish [~harish@175.156.245.20] has joined #lisp 17:15:06 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@mawercer.de] has joined #lisp 17:15:17 zygentoma [~kvirc@dslb-092-077-081-070.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:53 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 17:15:54 does "chunga broken with chrome" ring a bell? 17:16:01 clop2 [~jared@99-23-195-115.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:10 Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 17:16:13 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-72-66-106-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:32 either that or my hunchentoot fork is broken, but I no empty chunk is generated to mark the end of the chunked encoding 17:17:39 ferada [~ferada@37.221.196.86] has joined #lisp 17:18:00 xml-emitter does not support UTF-8, *sigh* 17:18:53 -!- zophy [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:19:17 -!- lyanchih_ [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 17:19:26 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:21:05 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.235.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:21:06 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 17:21:19 michael_lee [~michael_l@222.90.49.113] has joined #lisp 17:21:43 Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.235.172] has joined #lisp 17:23:48 -!- normanrichards [~textual@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 17:26:02 -!- michael_lee [~michael_l@222.90.49.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:27:42 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ZZZzzz] 17:31:30 WarWeasle [~bbeer@172.242.21.170] has joined #lisp 17:32:22 -!- bugrum [~bugrum@c-98-242-68-154.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:32:41 arubin [~textual@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:52 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:33:20 bugrum [~bugrum@c-98-242-68-154.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:11 nha [~prefect@koln-4db422a7.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:36 mhd [~mhd@cpe-76-170-71-237.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:41:07 beltsonata [~beltsonat@cpc3-aztw5-0-0-cust194.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:50 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:42:56 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 17:44:03 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 17:44:09 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:44:43 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 17:44:53 -!- nisstyre [yourstruly@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 17:45:46 -!- vaporatorius is now known as Vaporatorius 17:46:19 nisstyre [yourstruly@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 17:46:47 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:47:58 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:48:19 -!- jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-50-148-124-212.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:51:37 -!- beltsonata [~beltsonat@cpc3-aztw5-0-0-cust194.18-1.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:52:50 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.235.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:53:24 Brucio-92 [~Brucio-92@host-89-242-64-109.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:47 -!- Brucio-92 is now known as Poenikatu 17:54:13 bgs100 [~bgs@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 17:54:38 drdo [~drdo@2a02:2498:e000:20::16f:2] has joined #lisp 17:56:33 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@174-21-165-174.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:57:30 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:47 -!- Vaporatorius [~vaporator@125.Red-83-44-134.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:59:44 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has joined #lisp 17:59:52 jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-50-148-124-212.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.185.228] has joined #lisp 18:00:38 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.185.228] has quit [Changing host] 18:00:39 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 18:03:05 Fare [~fare@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:03:10 -!- bugrum [~bugrum@c-98-242-68-154.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [] 18:04:54 Has anybody ever tried to use beirc? 18:05:27 *JuanDaugherty* switched to chat from irssi about 6-7 years ago 18:05:33 *xchat 18:06:10 is it a list client/server? 18:06:14 i'm using beirc.... 18:06:14 *lisp 18:06:20 from time to time 18:06:32 JuanDaugherty: Well, that I can understand, but since this channel is #lisp, why are you not using an IRC client written in CL? 18:06:46 why would I ? 18:07:16 oleo: Great! I've had a devil of a job changing my nick by trying to send a message to NickServ. 18:07:24 fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317577.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 18:07:41 -!- Watcher7 [~w@108.216.28.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:07:51 err sorrry 18:07:55 msg nickserv RET or SPACE mostly.... 18:08:02 in beirc 18:08:03 fridim_: Have I seen your nick in another channel? 18:08:15 Poenikatu, well by that logic, I would have to use a lot of different clients. xchat isn't perfect and that's especially true of this mac version. I think I would probably use lisp if I were doing coding in an irc server or client, that or haskel (lambdabot). 18:08:18 sometimes you have to use two RETs or SPACEs 18:08:18 hi Poenikatu 18:08:30 depends on the command 18:08:30 Poenikatu, #racket maybe ? 18:09:06 Watcher7 [~w@108.216.28.176] has joined #lisp 18:09:10 fridim_: Hm, probably not. #debian-next? #siduction? ##esperanto? 18:09:24 oh, ##esperanto, right 18:09:41 minion chant 18:10:37 minion? 18:10:39 Davidbrcz [~david@88.95.11.109.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:51 fridim_: Are you an aficionado en CL? 18:11:24 oleo: Is there any help anywhere for beirc? 18:11:40 knowledgeable, I don't know, but enthusiastic, for sure :) 18:12:16 Vaporatorius [~vaporator@241.Red-88-18-76.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:19 fridim_: Yes, since I learned to program in CL, I've been really determined to do almost everything in CL! 18:12:31 dkcl [~user@unaffiliated/dandersen] has joined #lisp 18:12:35 hzp [~user@188-67-64-35.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 18:12:37 Poenikatu: not really, have a look at my file at github if you want.... 18:12:56 Poenikatu: i had a hard time figuring out the *auto-connect-alist* stuff too.... 18:13:01 -!- _8hzp [~user@188-67-64-35.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:13:09 Poenikatu: and made a few changes myself to some sections.... 18:13:26 Poenikatu: dunno if i provided a .beirc.lisp file 18:16:43 -!- dkcl [~user@unaffiliated/dandersen] has quit [Client Quit] 18:16:54 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:19:10 oleo: I've just succeeded in logging in at github, so how do I look at your file? 18:19:28 Poenikatu: Did you get closure built? 18:20:33 zfx [~zfx@host86-153-170-242.range86-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:21:01 Xach: Not yet, because clbuild refused to work for me. I am currently looking at the code for clbuild to see what it does and why it didn't work. 18:22:02 Xach: How can I get closure built using quicklisp? 18:22:03 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:23:05 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:24:10 oleo: What is the name of your project? 18:24:41 -!- stephengray [~stephengr@host-68-169-146-178.BROOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:25:56 wth, i can't find my repos there..... 18:26:23 do i have to keep the source dirs in place (at home) after pushing them over there ? 18:28:29 Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.235.172] has joined #lisp 18:28:34 ah wait found it 18:28:46 https://github.com/leventguel 18:33:13 dandersen [~user@unaffiliated/dandersen] has joined #lisp 18:34:19 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 18:34:19 oleo: Found it, but cannot see any docs on beirc 18:34:34 -!- nisstyre [yourstruly@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 18:35:51 Kenjin_ [~kenjin@bl19-235-172.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 18:36:18 -!- innertracks1 [~Thunderbi@174-21-153-156.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks1] 18:36:25 -!- WarWeasle [~bbeer@172.242.21.170] has left #lisp 18:36:41 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.235.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:37:22 Poenikatu|2 [~kvirc@host-89-242-64-109.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:23 nisstyre [yourstruly@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 18:37:53 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 18:38:00 -!- nisstyre [yourstruly@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Client Quit] 18:38:33 oleo: Have switched to a decent IRC client: kvirc 18:38:41 try my repo mcclim-stuff 18:38:51 @Poenikatu 18:38:56 -!- vnz [~vnz@unaffiliated/vnz] has left #lisp 18:39:52 nisstyre [yourstruly@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 18:39:55 it's not in cl and it's ancient, but i still use zenirc. 18:40:02 oleo: I tried something in beirc and for the 2nd time this afternoon, it froze so that I had to destroy its process. :-( 18:40:33 well yes such things can happen, therefore i use a second irc client too 18:41:06 untile one makes it bug-less or so..... 18:43:00 oleo: How do I get your files from github? I've installed git but I don't know how to use it and to read the manual now could take hours and hours... 18:43:19 git clone [url] 18:43:31 Bike: Thanx 18:43:32 git clone https://github.com/leventguel/mcclim-stuff.git 18:43:37 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:43:52 there's a site link on github to each repo.... 18:44:12 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 18:44:57 sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has joined #lisp 18:45:06 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9D428.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:45:56 my changes are mostly temporary-fixes regarding some logic-errors i found or so..... 18:46:17 maybe others will have a look and adapt it even better.... 18:46:38 you can do a diff and see the changes.... 18:46:57 and decide if you think it's right or maybe incorporate the changes a different way.... 18:47:46 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has joined #lisp 18:48:50 -!- PuffTheMagic [uid3325@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-stajssxkeeklncxq] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:49:39 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:50:48 PuffTheMagic [uid3325@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ywqeoohjajatyxlb] has joined #lisp 18:52:43 Joreji [~thomas@173-254.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 18:55:29 -!- adsisco [uid25204@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jvhyoroqiygxtgek] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:57:15 adsisco [uid25204@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-srnvvxqlqbyhufik] has joined #lisp 18:58:25 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:00:53 drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:51 p_nathan [~Adium@174-21-165-174.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:10 -!- Kenjin_ [~kenjin@bl19-235-172.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:02:18 Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.235.172] has joined #lisp 19:05:01 vendethiel [vendethiel@210.10.115.78.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:24 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:07:56 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-133-3.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:07:57 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 19:09:31 i just pushed my .beirc.lisp file over there... 19:10:14 just change your nick, real-name and the password and the *auto-connect-alist* variables 19:10:32 jo 19:10:45 this is from beirc now! 19:11:44 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:11:59 -!- genericus [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:12:10 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 19:13:40 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.235.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:14:35 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:16:59 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-176-94.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:18:35 -!- milosn [~milosn@94.12.79.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:22:06 Kenjin [~kenjin@bl19-235-172.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 19:22:50 http://picpaste.com/pics/test-uAtRj59d.1392578530.png 19:23:06 -!- Poenikatu [~Brucio-92@host-89-242-64-109.as13285.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:23:18 i just don't know why i get the slur of | bars there..... 19:23:37 fiveop [~fiveop@p5DDC4B01.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:23:43 jl_ [~jl@105.158.22.207] has joined #lisp 19:24:43 -!- silenus [~jl@41.251.56.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:25:38 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-218-254.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:26:04 oleo: Had to get something to eat. Thanks for your advice. My CL knowledge isn't that good at present. Basic CL not bad, but CLOS, macros, conditions, no no :-) 19:26:34 no problem Poenikatu|2 19:27:00 nha_ [~prefect@koln-5d81a752.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:27:07 well i don't count my CL knowledge as much too..... 19:27:18 it's tiny 19:27:50 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-4db422a7.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:27:51 and if you wonder wbooze==homie==oleo 19:28:08 wbooze: That's what I've found about CL: you learn some, write some and then discover that you've reached the tip of the iceberg: lots more to come 19:29:07 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:29:45 i defined a :text-margin option, for the beirc frame, cause the message wrapping is buggy.... it seems.... 19:30:08 the beirc-app-display function cares not for wraps or so.... 19:30:32 -!- cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:30:35 genericus [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:30:55 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@bl19-235-172.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:31:03 and removed the :both option for the scroll-bars in receivers.lisp 19:31:09 cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 19:31:12 instead put a :vertical in there... 19:31:17 milosn [~milosn@94.12.79.143] has joined #lisp 19:31:20 -!- cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:31:40 wbooze: That URL gives a fascinating screen shot. So much so that I'm going to leave kvirc and use beirc again. 19:31:43 -!- Poenikatu|2 [~kvirc@host-89-242-64-109.as13285.net] has left #lisp 19:31:54 cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 19:32:07 well i wouldn't recommend it yet 19:32:16 other then to toy with..... 19:32:24 Guest63387 [~kenjin@bl19-235-172.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 19:32:31 or at least run a second client along.... 19:32:46 Hi! I remember reading a reader macro somewhere (I think on reddit, used to demonstrate the power of lisp) where ] could be used to close all parens 19:33:37 I've been unable to find it back, but I thought maybe some people would know of it (and most definitely, know how to do it)? 19:33:54 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:33:56 -!- zfx [~zfx@host86-153-170-242.range86-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:34:43 Poenikatu [~Brucio-92@host-89-242-64-109.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:16 Am using SBCL which accepts UTF-8. Does beirc? 19:35:34 vendethiel: it's easy to do: write a reader macro for #\( that will count the levels, and read until the #\], then unread it if the level is not the top level. 19:36:02 vendethiel: wouldn't you be able to write that code in any other language? 19:36:16 pjb: no you wouldn't 19:36:34 Sure, it's so simple. What you wouldn't be able, is to hook it into the compiler. 19:36:44 But write it, yes, it would be as easy as in lisp. 19:36:46 you need reader macros to do that 19:36:50 do you think it's useful to offer an asdf3 tutorial to els2013? 19:36:59 No, reader macros are only the hooking mechanism. 19:37:07 oh yes, they are 19:37:09 Reading characters and parsing is done in any language. 19:37:12 sorry, for els2014 19:37:19 I already offered something at els2013 19:37:28 Fare: perhaps asdf4 for els2014? 19:37:44 nah, asdf4 will definitely not be out by then 19:37:49 but asdf3.1 will be 19:37:51 :-) 19:38:10 pjb: that's a play on words imho 19:38:26 which indeed has interesting innovations: asdf-package-system (aka quick-build), a better run-program, etc. 19:38:30 at that point you can just strawman "you can do anything in any turing-complete language" 19:38:49 but most languages don't have a way to modify how it's lexed (because most languages are not s-exprs obviously) 19:38:52 so I disagree 19:39:07 plus previous under-discussed innovations: program-op, etc. 19:39:48 vendethiel: seen camlp4 ? macros in Scala ? Various Haskell parsing extensions? 19:40:20 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@174-21-165-174.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:41:37 fare: macros in scala don't allow to modify how the lexer behaves 19:41:39 n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:5d2a:77f0:fbde:e401] has joined #lisp 19:41:53 -!- davazp` [~user@77.Red-88-23-190.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:41:56 vendethiel, yes, they do... you parse an arbitrary string. 19:41:59 you can write a compiler plugin (and it's been made before) but that's not a "language feature" anymore 19:42:00 -!- wbooze is now known as homie 19:42:26 fare: it has to be valid scala 19:42:37 vendethiel: if you can't write this http://paste.lisp.org/+30ZV then don't call yourself a programmer! 19:43:07 pjb: that's not a language feature. 19:43:14 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:43:17 also, there's absolutely 0 need to insult somebody else 19:43:25 "you're not a real programmer" what? 19:43:57 C is not strictly Turing-complete, anyway 19:44:07 :-) 19:44:19 -!- vibs29 [~lisper@host86-130-161-248.range86-130.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:44:25 and that's irrelevant to the discussion 19:46:08 vendethiel, you can parse arbitrary strings and return a scala AST, that's close enough to changing the syntax. 19:46:17 no that's not 19:46:28 whatever 19:46:29 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:36 at that point, you can say that the fact scala allows unicode and such as method names is "close enough to changing the syntax" 19:46:42 which is clearly wrong 19:46:45 if embedding stuff in string is not allowed, then C is not turing-equivalent at all. 19:46:52 Lisp is not a complex language: it has been designed at a time when programmers didn't have the computing resources to implement any complexity! 19:47:25 since you can't write your interpreter in C and have it apply to arbitrary code that isn't embedded in strings 19:47:48 Fare: 1- C doesn't have a string type. 2- you can store any byte in C char arrays = byte vectors in correct terms. 19:48:09 -!- homie is now known as wbooze 19:48:37 Fare: now, definiting Turing equivalence in terms of what the programmer can do is an interesting notion indeed. 19:48:54 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:49:29 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:22 -!- vendethiel [vendethiel@210.10.115.78.rev.sfr.net] has left #lisp 19:52:00 not sure if i understand asdf2's source-registry thing.... 19:52:12 got it working but...... 19:52:56 -!- ggole [~ggole@106-69-87-235.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 19:53:03 -!- Guest63387 [~kenjin@bl19-235-172.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:53:06 makes it complicated for me to have say two alternative registrys 19:53:36 one for say loading the old mcclim-0.9.6 branch and one for testing the new mcclim lib i get with quicklisp.... 19:54:42 Denommus` [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 19:56:50 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-103-73.w109-214.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 19:59:06 -!- QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Iceape 2.7.12/20130119143918]] 20:00:00 zfx [~zfx@host86-153-170-242.range86-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:00:30 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:00:30 MoALTz [~no@164.127.160.229] has joined #lisp 20:01:32 stephengray [~stephengr@host-68-169-166-215.WISOLT3.epbfi.com] has joined #lisp 20:02:19 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 20:04:43 ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.18] has joined #lisp 20:07:05 -!- Denommus` [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Quit: restarting X] 20:07:56 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:03 aftershave_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 20:10:40 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:11:29 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:12:02 Denommus` [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 20:15:18 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 20:15:41 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 20:15:52 pjb: Concerning your paste, that's Ok if C is your scene. It isn't mine although I can read it tolerably well. 20:17:38 -!- zfx [~zfx@host86-153-170-242.range86-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:20:13 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 20:21:06 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 20:23:35 Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.235.172] has joined #lisp 20:24:51 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFEE4D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:27:26 -!- zajn [~zajn@c-67-164-92-172.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: zajn] 20:28:47 ASau [~user@p54AFEE4D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:31:56 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.235.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:33:25 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@lns-c10k-ft-02-t2-89-83-137-164.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:34:14 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@p5DDC4B01.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [] 20:34:28 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:37 wbooze: not complicated. You can export your CL_SOURCE_REGISTRY 20:37:46 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:5d2a:77f0:fbde:e401] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:39:10 i don't want to add shell env variables or such..... 20:39:37 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5059:6770:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:40:08 and using the old central-registry stuff works but then there's no recursion to dirs there 20:40:28 Poenikatu: the point is not the language. it's the complexity of the code: one function call, one test, one function call! 20:40:42 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-133-3.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 20:43:11 -!- schoppenhauer [~schoppenh@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:43:44 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:46:06 or provide an argument to initialize-source-registry 20:48:01 (initialize-source-registry (:tree "/home/wbooze/blah/")) ? 20:48:18 hmm 20:48:29 well i'll think about it 20:49:20 schoppenhauer [~schoppenh@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 20:50:15 so i don't have to have .conf files in .config/common-lisp/source-registry.conf.d/ heh 20:50:41 ok then i'll change that all.... 20:51:29 _tca [~user@unaffiliated/theconartist] has joined #lisp 20:52:16 Fare: can i group multiple statements to initialize-source-registry like (initiazlize-source-registry (:tree blah) (:exclude blah) (:include blah)) ? 20:54:16 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:31 -!- Fare [~fare@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:54:38 -!- sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:55:11 -!- stephengray [~stephengr@host-68-169-166-215.WISOLT3.epbfi.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:55:14 vibs29 [~lisper@94.117.65.8] has joined #lisp 20:55:32 wgreenhouse [~wgreenhou@fsf/member/wgreenhouse] has joined #lisp 21:00:18 zfx [~zfx@host86-153-170-242.range86-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:01:20 ocramz [~ocramz@wlan-145-94-181-092.wlan.tudelft.nl] has joined #lisp 21:01:31 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-133-3.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:01:47 hi all 21:03:17 hiroakip [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-218-254.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 21:03:26 -!- aftershave_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:04:41 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:06:33 -!- zfx [~zfx@host86-153-170-242.range86-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:07:01 QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:47 hi one 21:10:25 it feels good for this one to be among the all 21:10:38 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:58 KaiQ [~localhost@p578FC56A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:13:28 n0n0 [~n0n0___@c-98-248-194-46.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:38 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA385C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:14:02 -!- MoALTz [~no@164.127.160.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:14:03 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:26 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:14:29 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA385C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 21:15:19 Vivitron` [~Vivitron`@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:34 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:17:01 -!- nand1 [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:17:35 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-133-3.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 21:17:42 klltkr_ [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 21:18:06 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:19:29 ahoy 21:19:40 Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.235.172] has joined #lisp 21:20:12 pirates! canter him! 21:20:16 lol 21:20:41 -!- ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:22:30 przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA385C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:22:30 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA385C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 21:23:09 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 21:24:30 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:24:56 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 21:25:44 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-133-3.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:26:14 jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:42 hehe 21:29:45 -!- ocramz [~ocramz@wlan-145-94-181-092.wlan.tudelft.nl] has left #lisp 21:30:17 ocramz [~ocramz@wlan-145-94-181-092.wlan.tudelft.nl] has joined #lisp 21:30:43 Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 21:31:35 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:31:50 is anybody here resident/working in the Netherlands, south-east? (Rotterdam-Den Haag etc) 21:32:01 oops SW I meant 21:32:25 gmcastil [~user@97-122-163-48.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:11 jpfuente_ [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:48 -!- jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:38:53 -!- ocramz [~ocramz@wlan-145-94-181-092.wlan.tudelft.nl] has quit [Quit: ocramz] 21:40:32 -!- rainbyte [~rainbyte@190.191.81.229] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:41:00 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 21:42:32 sdemarre [~serge@98.165-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 21:45:47 -!- doomlord_ [~servitor@host109-151-65-32.range109-151.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:46:53 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@88.95.11.109.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:46:54 -!- jewel_ [~jewel@105-237-57-213.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:48:38 adrians [4ac80792@gateway/web/freenode/ip.74.200.7.146] has joined #lisp 21:49:51 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-229-227-14.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:50:21 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-50-188-34-170.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:50:30 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 21:51:01 Total noob here, using CCL - sometimes I get into a state in the repl (while connected with slime) where I guess the repl is expecting additional input and does not evaluate what I enter. Is there a way to abort the current input? 21:51:59 pnpuff [~ff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 21:52:33 -!- nbouscal [nbouscal@gateway/shell/ircrelay.com/x-hdlftboidpiyuzjm] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 21:52:48 -!- pnpuff [~ff@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 21:53:25 -!- antonv [~user@93.171.161.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:54:21 zajn [~zajn@airbears2-136-152-142-142.AirBears2.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 21:56:02 sikilpaake [~carlos@177.229.230.254] has joined #lisp 21:56:13 -!- sikilpaake [~carlos@177.229.230.254] has left #lisp 21:56:31 Kenjin_ [~kenjin@bl19-235-172.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 21:56:39 -!- Joreji [~thomas@173-254.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:59:20 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.235.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:00:00 adrians: C-c C-c 22:00:19 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-133-3.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:00:20 -!- Shinmera_ [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: ZZzzzzZZ] 22:01:06 or, simply finish the input you started ... just an error will do fine .. so type "))))))))))) and Enter 22:01:31 drewc: thanks, but that doesn't seem to do it 22:01:50 either invoked by key-binding or command name 22:02:24 zfx [~zfx@host86-153-170-242.range86-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 22:02:27 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:02:33 adrians: well then something else going on .... try C-c C-k on the repl and M-x slime n ? 22:03:09 or : look in the *inferior-lisp* or the shell where you started CCL and see if there is anything to tell you ... 22:04:14 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 22:04:24 *inferior-lisp* has: ; Warning: Test failed: (&KEY #'#'+) => "(&key (function (function +)))" ; Expected: "(&key (function #'+))" ; While executing: (:INTERNAL TEST TEST-PRINT-ARGLIST), in process worker(8). 22:04:31 that doesn't mean much to me 22:06:33 starting a new slime connection works, but I was trying to see how I can get out of that non-evaluating state in case I get into it again 22:06:47 -!- zfx [~zfx@host86-153-170-242.range86-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:06:48 OR: try to figure out what is happening, and if you are somehow at fault :) "test failed: (&KEY #'#'+)" is likely a syntax error ... is there no debugger available, either in EMACS or at the *inferior-lisp*? 22:07:17 no, I didn't get the debugger popping up 22:07:50 -!- klltkr_ [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 22:08:19 OR: what is #'#'+ supposed to be/do? are you sure that it needs closing and is not simply the equivalent of CL-USER> (loop) ? 22:09:16 I couldn't say what that's supposed to mean, but what I entered that got me into the state is: 22:09:21 (push (:foo 5 :bar 7) '(:foo 1)) 22:09:43 OR: look in *slime-events* and see what is happening as well ... but... 22:10:00 which might be meaningless, but the point is how to fix something like this once you enter that state 22:10:13 do you have :foo defined as a function? 22:10:43 no 22:11:06 -!- sdemarre [~serge@98.165-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:11:31 -!- nha_ [~prefect@koln-5d81a752.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:12:20 so, what is (:foo 5 :bar 7) supposed to return, and how is '(:foo 1) a place and not constant data? 22:12:23 clhs push 22:12:23 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_push.htm 22:13:27 like I said, it's just me trying to figure out push, and the input is nonsense - that said, how do I abort? 22:13:43 Java? 22:13:49 *drewc* is making a joke 22:13:54 heh 22:14:26 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:14:36 so the repl doesn't allow for a dumb monkey to type random stuff and then abort? 22:14:41 I have no idea, for things work fine here ... I get errors. What version of slime/ccl/emacs are you using, for what platform? 22:14:51 adrians: your push form gives: Undefined function :foo called with arguments (5 :bar 7) . 22:14:57 in a sldb window. 22:15:11 oh, you are a dumb monkey? never mind then. Cheers. 22:15:14 -!- Kenjin_ [~kenjin@bl19-235-172.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:15:15 I'm left with the repl not evaluating whatever I enter thereafter 22:16:12 -!- dandersen [~user@unaffiliated/dandersen] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:16:20 drewc: I appreciate your help, really - was just being self deprecating - not allowed? 22:16:22 adrians: once things are setup correctly and understood your given input will not cause the repl to hang in an unrecoverable manner. 22:16:39 adrians: you need to find the sldb window, and type q from it. 22:16:50 adrians: the repl waits for the sldb debugger to finish. 22:17:09 and if there is no sldb window? 22:17:48 Then M-x slime RET to reconnect to it. 22:17:55 I'm using the latest slime (from source repo), with emacs 24.3.50 snapshot 22:18:06 And what CL implementation? 22:18:13 clozure 22:18:19 on windows 22:18:25 adrians: is there an sldb *buffer*? are you comfortable enough with emacs to know the answer? 22:18:28 Ah, on MS-Windows. That might be the problem here. 22:18:34 Try Linux instead. 22:18:38 no, there was no debugger popping up 22:19:02 sometimes, with some input I get that, and I can invoke the appropriate restart 22:19:06 but here, there was none 22:19:30 I'm puzzled, I really wonder why people still keep insisting trying to use such a useless OS as MS-Windows 22:19:53 how has this devolved into a Windows/other problem? 22:20:13 adrians: because I have the same slime emacs and clozure as you have, only on linux. 22:20:24 Therefore the fault is isolated into your MS-Windows system. 22:20:33 And this it's always the case, 22:20:45 which snapshot of emacs - that's a pretty decent variable factor right there? 22:20:54 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:21:05 Not really. slime works on any version of emacs. 22:21:45 pjb: if I do M-x slime, am I not simply creating another connection? 22:21:57 that seems to work and gives me a working repl 22:22:01 Not necessarily. It asks when there's already one. 22:22:20 answer n and it revives the old one. 22:22:22 what I was after is to find out how to get out of a non-evaluating state in the initial repl buffer 22:22:53 hmm, maybe something killed the initial repl connection since it didn't prompt me 22:22:56 The usual cases are explained above. When there's a disconnect, it's M-x slime RET n RET 22:24:11 k, thanks 22:26:01 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-218-254.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:30:13 Adlai` [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 22:33:14 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:33:17 -!- Praise- is now known as Praise 22:35:10 Ethan- [~Ethan-@60.248.176.37] has joined #lisp 22:37:35 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:38:14 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:39:35 jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:40:28 Poenikatu: Check it out in ~/quicklisp/local-projects/, then use (ql:quickload "closure" :verbose t) 22:40:55 -!- jpfuente_ [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:41:28 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 22:42:46 Kenjin [~kenjin@bl19-235-172.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 22:43:52 Poenikatu: It may save you some time to inform you that the project does not work with any ASDF in common use since 2010. 22:43:58 It is a dead project in that regard. 22:44:19 I wish you'd choose another word that "dead". 22:44:19 -!- vibs29 [~lisper@94.117.65.8] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:44:32 A rebel project that won't submit to asdf/quicklisp perhaps? 22:45:16 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@bl19-235-172.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:46:17 Ok, it is in a coma 22:46:39 The inability to build is a symptom of neglect, not independence 22:47:11 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:47:41 It's resting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vuW6tQ0218 22:48:47 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-133-3.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:49:32 -!- zygentoma [~kvirc@dslb-092-077-081-070.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 22:53:31 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5059:6770:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 22:55:49 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 22:56:01 well closure works but not unbuggy..... 22:58:43 knob [~knob@adsl-64-237-166-25.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:00 *drewc* remembers trying out closure around late 2004/early 2005 or so .... it almost built fine back then ... almost. 23:02:25 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-133-3.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:02:37 -!- patapon [~deglingo@ALille-251-1-120-210.w86-208.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:03:19 zfx [~zfx@host86-153-170-242.range86-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 23:04:39 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 23:05:46 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@c-98-248-194-46.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:07:46 -!- zfx [~zfx@host86-153-170-242.range86-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:08:04 i hope someone writes a multilang capability multikeyboard capability for movitz as well..... 23:08:55 otherwise no one will be able todo much with it.... 23:09:03 outside en/us users maybe.... 23:09:15 not even try it out or some such.... 23:09:54 even when it's meant to be used only in a vm or so..... 23:10:59 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:12:38 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 23:15:06 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 23:17:44 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:19:52 n0n0 [~n0n0___@c-98-248-194-46.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:15 zophy [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 23:25:14 -!- jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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