00:00:01 andreh [~andreh@189.27.30.189.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 00:01:58 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:06:39 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:08:45 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:58 arubin [~textual@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:55 vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has joined #lisp 00:14:51 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@77.78.117.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:15:34 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:16:24 vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has joined #lisp 00:21:53 -!- pierre1_ [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:24:42 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:24:59 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:27:49 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has joined #lisp 00:29:02 -!- CrazyEddy [~hatless@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:31:19 -!- karswell [~user@84.93.180.60] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:32:51 M0ntag [~m0ntag@c-50-160-42-188.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:33:07 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:33:09 -!- bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:33:21 I love parenthesis 00:33:49 I spelled it rong! 00:34:13 bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #lisp 00:34:24 No! Not in front of my interweb freinds! 00:35:03 I'll have to kill my computre... 00:35:21 It's a witnnes... 00:35:48 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.37.3] has joined #lisp 00:35:59 M0ntag: go away. 00:36:17 karswell [~user@84.93.180.60] has joined #lisp 00:36:27 sorry... I suck... 00:36:33 -!- M0ntag [~m0ntag@c-50-160-42-188.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has left #lisp 00:38:15 vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has joined #lisp 00:39:11 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 00:41:48 innertracks [~Thunderbi@174-21-153-156.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:17 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:45:21 CrazyEddy [~seaworn@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 00:46:12 wchun [~wchun@81-233-226-189-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 00:48:40 davazp [~user@77.Red-88-23-190.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:49:44 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:52:39 drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.22.107] has joined #lisp 00:56:43 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 00:57:32 zajn [~zajn@airbears2-136-152-142-144.AirBears2.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 01:05:38 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 01:05:50 antonv`` [~user@93.171.161.176] has joined #lisp 01:10:24 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:11:33 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:11:43 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.170.22.107] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:12:10 jhao [~user@pool-72-76-190-214.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:30 JPeterson [~JPeterson@81-233-152-121-no83.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 01:15:38 Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:17:05 vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has joined #lisp 01:17:46 WarWeasle [~Kaltara@172.242.21.170] has joined #lisp 01:21:09 -!- Mandus [~aasmundo@ii181070.directconnect.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:21:30 -!- jhao [~user@pool-72-76-190-214.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:22:23 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:22:31 jhao [~user@pool-72-76-190-214.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:24:09 Mandus [~aasmundo@ii181070.directconnect.no] has joined #lisp 01:24:48 -!- jhao [~user@pool-72-76-190-214.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:25:23 Is there a way to make a prexisting lambda function use an external closure? I would like to make a fun 01:26:07 Make a DOM tree and wrap events within the tree's closure. 01:27:52 what's the lisp method of describe-function? 01:29:51 -!- andreh [~andreh@189.27.30.189.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:31:17 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:31:17 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:39:28 Poenikatu [~kvirc@pdpc/supporter/bronze/poenikatu] has joined #lisp 01:42:00 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:42:46 -!- antonv`` [~user@93.171.161.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:43:23 Hello. When I use "(directory dir) in a function" in sbcl without slime, I get a list of one pathspec. When I use "(directory dir)" in the same function but running with SLIME, I get two pathspecs, which is correct because there are two sub-directories in dir. Why the difference? 01:43:52 antonv`` [~user@93.171.161.176] has joined #lisp 01:47:46 cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.121.59] has joined #lisp 01:47:46 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.121.59] has quit [Changing host] 01:47:46 cmpitg [~cmpitg@unaffiliated/cmpitg] has joined #lisp 01:49:01 -!- ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:49:23 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@unaffiliated/cmpitg] has quit [Client Quit] 01:49:38 <|3b|> Poenikatu: compare *default-pathname-defaults* in both cases? 01:56:41 stephengray [~stephengr@host-68-169-146-178.BROOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #lisp 01:59:17 jaimef: (describe (function f)) (describe 'f) (documentation 'f 'function) 01:59:42 WarWeasle: ((lambda (fun) (funcall fun)) (let ((x 42)) (lambda () x))) 02:00:19 Poenikatu: that's because *default-pathname-defaults* is not the same in the two threads. 02:01:30 Poenikatu: you can set *swank-bindings* in ~/.swank.lisp to set *default-pathname-defaults* to the default you want for swank, or use M-x slime-sync-package-and-default-directory or M-x slime-set-default-directory 02:03:38 -!- pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-246-53.w92-163.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:04:22 pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-5-226.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 02:04:45 -!- pjb is now known as Guest49778 02:05:01 m1ngus [~jan-magnu@81.79-160-80.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 02:05:23 -!- percopal [~percopal@63.65.76.38] has quit [Quit: percopal] 02:05:42 -!- Guest49778 is now known as pjb` 02:05:49 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 02:05:55 -!- bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:08:11 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.140.40] has joined #lisp 02:08:11 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.140.40] has quit [Changing host] 02:08:11 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 02:12:23 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 02:12:26 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-50-188-34-170.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:12:53 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 02:13:55 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:15:04 |3b|: pjb: Many thanks for your advice. I was away to compile and install sbcl 1.1.15! 02:17:57 jhao [~user@pool-72-76-190-214.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:18:23 Denommus [~AndChat67@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 02:20:34 -!- m1ngus [~jan-magnu@81.79-160-80.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:20:58 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 02:21:37 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:22:23 -!- nisstyre [~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 02:23:11 nisstyre [~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 02:30:19 how do I disconnect slime without killing the swank server? 02:31:52 m1ngus [~jan-magnu@81.79-160-80.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:50 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has joined #lisp 02:32:52 Poenikatu: first time for every(thing×body) 02:32:58 Adlai: isn't there a M-x slime-disconnect? 02:34:11 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:34:28 Denommus: yes, but if I try slime-connect after using slime-disconnect, I get: open-network-stream: make client process failed: connection refused, :name, SLIME Lisp, :buffer, nil, :host, 127.0.0.1, :service, 4005, :nowait, nil 02:34:37 aka it kills the swank server 02:34:57 Adlai: I didn't know 02:36:36 <|3b|> need to tell the server to stay open when you create it 02:36:53 <|3b|> something like :dont-close t 02:38:00 *|3b|* isn't sure if you can do that easily for a lisp started from slime or not 02:41:41 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 02:46:17 bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #lisp 02:49:25 -!- antonv`` [~user@93.171.161.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:57:55 |3b|: it's a swank server started from stumpwm 03:02:42 Adlai: so check the don't close parameter 03:05:40 kobain_ [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 03:09:03 -!- kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:10:11 -!- KarlDscc [~localhost@p5DD9EAEB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:15:33 Denommus: thank you 03:15:40 and |3b| too :) 03:21:45 Codynyx [~cody@c-50-188-34-170.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:27:21 -!- m1ngus [~jan-magnu@81.79-160-80.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:29:25 m1ngus [~jan-magnu@81.79-160-80.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 03:29:31 jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:30:31 -!- m1ngus [~jan-magnu@81.79-160-80.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:31:24 ASau [~user@p54AFEA0F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 03:34:34 -!- WarWeasle [~Kaltara@172.242.21.170] has quit [Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )] 03:37:51 antonv`` [~user@93.171.161.176] has joined #lisp 03:39:58 is this mostly a lisp-2 channel? 03:40:37 speckle: yes, lisp-1 is #scheme (or whatever other lisp-1 you're looking for) 03:40:47 okay thanks 03:41:25 I was hoping there was a neutral channel I could ask for articles comparing the two, but I guess everyone is split between the two.. hmm. Well, thanks for telling me. 03:41:55 speckle: read Lisp In Small Pieces for a good comparison of the various lisps 03:42:02 thanks! 03:42:20 it's a bit expensive but worth reading 03:43:15 speckle: If you haven't read it: http://www.dreamsongs.com/Separation.html 03:43:24 oh wow, ~500 pages... not small at all. Well, I am guessing it's worth it, though 03:43:31 thanks! 03:44:08 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.37.3] has left #lisp 03:46:29 speckle: you could ask discussion questions here, just know that answers you'll get are likely biased towards lisp-2... and you may eventually get asked to take it elsewhere 03:46:33 <|3b|> speckle: i think someone made a #lisplab channel for general lisp family talk, no idea if anyone is actually there though 03:47:10 yeah, noone there. 03:47:30 there's not a ton to talk about. 03:47:47 vibs29 [~lisper@host86-130-161-248.range86-130.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 03:48:00 <|3b|> yeah, most people probably focus on a single language anyway 03:48:20 Personally, I think that CL only has one namespace per package. It's just that it has multiple value spaces. 03:48:27 beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-103-73.w109-214.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 03:48:35 Good morning everyone! 03:50:35 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.41.243] has joined #lisp 03:51:02 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-246-18-219.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 03:51:26 axion [~axion@cpe-67-246-18-219.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:55:16 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.41.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:56:32 <|3b|> Zhivago: plus the namespace for package names? 03:56:45 -!- harish is now known as harish_afk 03:58:12 morning all 03:58:24 Hello oleo! 03:58:40 seems like putting vertical and horizontal scroll-bars in clim-listener is the wrong way..... 03:58:50 oh hi beach! 03:59:39 3b: My point is that the only namespaces in CL come from packages. Functions and variables share the same names. 03:59:44 i removed the horizontal one, cause setting end-of-line-action or end-of-page-action to :wrap instead of :scroll or :allow does not do what i had in mind.... 03:59:47 oleo: I will try to track down bugs like that later, but now I am concentrating on getting the code to build cleanly. 03:59:56 3b: Consider -- can you export a function in CL? 04:00:11 <|3b|> Zhivago: right, not arguing that part 04:00:13 beach: oh not yours, it's my old mcclim repo... 04:00:42 <|3b|> just that package names aren't in any of the per package namespaces 04:00:55 and one of the scrollers uses +fill+ or so.... 04:01:11 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-246-18-219.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 04:01:17 oleo: Do you mean that you have made your own McCLIM version? 04:01:31 or rather both, but the +fill+ thing is ok for the vertical one but not ok for the horizontal one.... 04:02:01 beach: well not really i made a few changes here and there, can't say it's mine tho.... 04:02:03 axion [~axion@cpe-67-246-18-219.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:02:39 oleo: If they are bug fixes, at some point I would like to merge them into the GitHub repository I am now maintaining. 04:02:40 beach: trying to figure out things....and look for logic errors mostly....or stuff which goes against the spec or so 04:02:50 oleo: That's great! 04:02:53 *|3b|* isn't trying to make any particular serious point though, so will go to sleep instead :) 04:04:12 beach: having got rid of the horiz. scroll-bar changing the stream-text-margin now does what it is meant to.... 04:04:48 -!- harish_afk is now known as harish 04:05:13 beach: otherwise it does what it has to but having a horiz.scroll bar does not prevent the viewport getting widened on wider output.... 04:05:21 oleo: We need to figure out a way for me to get hold of your code, but maybe not quite yet. Like I said, I am still trying to get it to build cleanly. 04:05:25 -!- antonv`` [~user@93.171.161.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:06:26 oleo: At some point I would like to create a test case for each problem you encountered and then merge fixes for them. 04:06:43 oleo: ya i can do those tests.... 04:06:54 no problem 04:07:00 Excellent! 04:09:38 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-246-18-219.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 04:11:45 axion [~axion@cpe-67-246-18-219.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:12:05 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-246-18-219.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:12:09 beach: tried to get on par with the new motif/Xt too....but not covered it completely.... 04:12:44 oleo: I don't know what that means. Sorry! 04:12:51 beach: my old install crashed and got corrupted at some point.... 04:13:00 Xt the X-toolkit lib 04:13:06 You mean using that as a backend? 04:13:13 axion [~axion@cpe-67-246-18-219.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:13:20 well obviously the abstractions are based on that..... 04:13:36 and motif, as fas as i see...... 04:13:42 -!- snits [~snits@inet-hqmc01-o.oracle.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:13:45 correct me if i'm wrong.... 04:14:15 That's what I have been told. 04:14:29 But I don't know much about Motif or Xt. 04:14:56 me too, i just tried the demos and had to see that the book demos were already old.... 04:15:47 R5/R6/R7 transitions or so...... 04:16:49 What do you mean by "get on par"? Update McCLIM so that it has the look and feel of new Motif/Xt? 04:18:02 no no, just to be able to get the demos to run, and understand why when it doesn't, what has changed etc...., i'm new to that stuff as well.... 04:18:36 Vicfred [~Vicfred@187.206.37.226] has joined #lisp 04:18:45 I see. 04:22:35 another solution would be to add the scroll-bars manually.... 04:23:11 and specify the behaviour yourself..... 04:23:22 Solution to what problem? 04:23:52 having both at once they behave the same way...... 04:24:32 i don't know where at the abstraction level the problem arises, if at that level or even deeper..... 04:25:38 oleo: Like I said, I am not yet at a point where I am willing to search for specific bugs, so I'll let you keep digging for a while. 04:26:53 -!- pierpa [~user@host68-225-dynamic.46-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:27:06 the viewport gets widened for wider output....using :wrap or not..... 04:27:13 that's the problem.... 04:27:34 In the listener? Or always? 04:28:00 in the listener as of yet 04:28:22 when i remove the horiz. scroll-bar it's ok tho 04:28:23 So you mean if you type a long line, then the viewport changes its size? 04:28:32 yes 04:28:35 wow. 04:29:06 but you observe that only when you have the horiz. scroll-bar enabled.... 04:29:08 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-130-121.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 04:29:15 I see. 04:29:19 or rather use :scroll-bars t for the interactor-pane 04:29:52 OK, I understand. 04:29:57 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFEA0F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:30:08 and i see scroll-bar abstracted twice one canonically and once as a gadget 04:30:23 -!- MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 04:36:44 p_nathan [~Adium@174-21-165-174.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:38:39 oleo: The entire implementation of the layout protocol needs to be looked at, and it is possible that the spec needs to be amended in order for the behavior to be well defined. 04:38:39 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:39:45 As I recall, it is not clear what should happen if a pane is given some explicit space requirement at the same time its children have explicit space requirements as well. 04:44:40 i don't know, but what is clear is that it should behave the same as in other apps you see out there..... 04:45:54 Unless that would be contrary to the specification. But I suspect the specification is just not clear enough as it is. 04:46:31 yangfinder [~yang@180.117.111.13] has joined #lisp 04:46:35 So the best thing to do would be to specify the behavior and then make sure the implementation follows. 04:52:00 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:53:19 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:54:13 ya the problem is really that the viewport gets changed, that's ok for a vertical scroller, not necessarily as default for a horizontal scroller.... 04:54:37 the max of which is specified as +fill+ as far as i understood..... 04:55:22 I see. 04:56:48 -!- yangfinder [~yang@180.117.111.13] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:58:33 nilsi_ [~nilsi@14.39.1.195] has joined #lisp 05:00:50 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3] 05:01:29 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:02:34 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.197.12] has joined #lisp 05:08:24 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:20 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:10:18 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 05:10:23 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:10:36 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 05:11:53 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 05:15:32 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 05:16:32 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 05:16:55 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 05:17:01 -!- jhao [~user@pool-72-76-190-214.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:19:35 Fare [~fare@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:19:50 alezost [~user@128-70-201-173.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:20:05 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 05:25:43 oleo - talking about McClim? 05:26:44 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:30:53 -!- frx [frx@78-1-180-75.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:32:39 is McCLIM still alive? 05:34:06 frx [frx@93-138-54-134.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 05:34:59 Fare: Yes, I am not the maintainer. 05:35:06 p_nathan: Yes, indeed. 05:35:17 Wow: s/not/now/ 05:35:27 Interesting typo there. 05:36:29 -!- ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:36:38 It would be nice if McClim got a maintainer. I like being able to make basic UIs painlessly, but have neither interest nor skill in UI design to actually contribute meaningfully. 05:36:53 (Nor the desire to do large UIs) 05:37:26 p_nathan: McCLIM does have a maintainer. But it will take me a while to get to a point where I can consider fixing specific bugs. 05:38:15 Oh! Are you the maintainer? 05:38:19 Yes. 05:39:28 beach: IIRC, McCLIM had errors detectable when enabling deferred warnings. See http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-test-grid/asdf/asdf-diff-31.html 05:39:51 more generally, any warning detected by SBCL is probably worth examining 05:39:56 -!- jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 05:40:15 Fare: That's what I am doing, but this is not your problem anymore. 05:40:50 yup 05:40:53 beach: do you have a homepage for mcclim? I would like to keep an eyeball on it, perchance to use 05:40:55 yay! I'm FREE 05:41:54 p_nathan: The home page is on cl.net. I am still waiting for cl.net to be maintained again so that I can ask the maintainer for a new password (I forgot mine). 05:42:14 p_nathan: The repository is on GitHub. 05:42:41 https://github.com/robert-strandh/McCLIM 05:44:14 -!- zajn [~zajn@airbears2-136-152-142-144.AirBears2.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Quit: zajn] 05:44:29 p_nathan: http://common-lisp.net/project/mcclim/ 05:45:13 Thanks. 05:46:41 -!- QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:48:05 -!- arubin [~textual@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 05:48:45 beach: thanks for the work!! 05:49:17 cpc26: Sure! 05:50:16 cpc26: Are you a user as well? 05:51:39 beach: yes, I use the listener the most - do some one offs for my own work. Wonderful work, glad you are doing it! 05:53:21 cpc26: Great! Thanks for the encouragement. There is lots of work to be done. 05:54:53 -!- bgs100 [~bgs@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: bgs100] 05:59:47 -!- davazp [~user@77.Red-88-23-190.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:59:49 QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:01:34 ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 06:01:38 zajn [~zajn@airbears2-136-152-142-34.AirBears2.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 06:03:07 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@174-21-153-156.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 06:03:20 the (scroller (scoll-bar t :widht blah :height blah) ..body..) thing is for fixed size panes.... 06:03:52 i tried to combine it with the other one but ..... that's nonsense..... 06:04:36 i get the scroll-bars but not the scrolling behaviour..... 06:04:39 lol 06:07:57 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 06:08:50 Does McCLIM work on modern OSX/Intel? 06:09:30 probably does, at least with the X server for such. 06:10:03 probably no native support. 06:10:04 it's a good way to make it look not modern 06:10:24 we prefer the expression "timeless" 06:11:01 Question: What could possibly be the purpose of an :AFTER method on INITIALIZE-INSTANCE that does nothing? What am I missing here? 06:11:23 beach: override an earlier method in an upgrade? 06:11:35 I had that in ASDF at some point (maybe still). 06:11:41 :after doesn't really override anything, does it? 06:11:52 it overrides the previous :after method 06:11:58 I see, yes. 06:12:00 for same specializers 06:12:19 that requires at least a comment, though. 06:12:28 So if I don't find the method that it is supposed to override, I can safely remove it. 06:12:59 Probably, yea I'd do a describe 'initialize-instance first to see if someone snuck something in elsewhere 06:13:35 p_nathan: it would just show the empty method 06:13:39 I think I'll remove the method, then inspect initialize-instance in the SLIME inspector to see whether it has a previous method. 06:13:54 need to remove it, restart, then it'll show the original 06:14:08 Yes, that's what I meant. 06:14:56 and sbcl usually complains about such redefinitions 06:15:04 Oh, good! 06:15:12 There were no such complaints. 06:18:33 p_nathan: I use McClim with OS X x11 since it started - using both native window manager and stumpwm 06:20:32 bocaneri [~bocaneri_@about/linux/staff/sauvin] has joined #lisp 06:22:18 cpc26: Aha, I will see what I can do. 06:22:59 if you're planning on distributing, i don't think your users will appreciate it 06:23:42 I'm not planning on anything but seeing what can be seen. 06:24:19 It's entirely possible that if I get wrathful and motivated enough (probability very low), I would see about porting the low-level points to FFI into Cocoa. 06:26:55 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 06:28:29 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:29:03 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@14.39.1.195] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:31:07 Vutral [ss@vutral.net] has joined #lisp 06:31:09 -!- Vutral [ss@vutral.net] has quit [Changing host] 06:31:09 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 06:36:26 -!- BlackWabi [~wabi@c83-191-78-163.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:36:50 -!- nand1 [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:38:18 BlackWabi [~wabi@c83-191-78-163.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 06:38:59 drei is broken and it can cause issues - when drei is working McClime behaves well enough 06:41:42 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:644d:ed2:7988:e23c] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:42:01 I have a question about DEFSTRUCT and initializing structs that I wonder if I could get some opinions on. 06:42:01 vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has joined #lisp 06:42:20 In C++ a class constructor can do a lot of stuff to initialize the class based on the arguments to the constructor. 06:43:03 In Common Lisp a MAKE-FOO function for the struct FOO allows you to initialize slots individually but there doesn't seem to be any convenient way of using those slot values to initialize other slots. 06:43:10 vkrest_ [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:43:16 boa constructors 06:43:34 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:43:53 boa constructors eh? ("eh" is Canadian for "that what you said there, is it not true?") 06:44:00 You'll probably want to define your own make-foo 06:44:30 *drmeister* is looking at boa constructors. 06:45:00 p_nathan: Do you mean define a different function that does more than make-foo or redefine the function make-foo? 06:45:10 clhs 3.4.6 06:45:10 Boa Lambda Lists: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_df.htm 06:49:04 I don't quite understand why "by order of argument" is the description, given that regular lambda lists allow order-dependent referencing of arguments, like (lambda (a &optional (b (+ a 1))) ...) 06:49:40 unless it's just to make the snakey pun 06:51:01 stassats: Thanks - I'm reading it. Do you put the initialization code in the &aux arguments? 06:51:15 possibly 06:51:39 Where else can you put it? The body of the boa constructor appears to be an alist of default slot values. 06:53:11 drmeister: that example I just gave uses &optional. The same syntax applies to &key parameters as well. 06:53:21 -!- QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Iceape 2.7.12/20130119143918]] 06:54:09 I was mistaken - there is no body. 06:54:32 and where is the a-list? There is no body to a defstruct boa constructor. The parameters of the constructor itself need to match the struct slots. 06:54:34 yeah 06:55:34 drmeister: the most flexible pattern is (defstruct (foo (:constructor make-foo* ...)) ...), then with a separate (defun make-foo ...) which calls make-foo* 06:56:01 only make-foo* is a bad name 06:56:05 then you get an entire function body to do whatever you want. The struct constructor basically is just for allocation & initial slot value setting 06:56:46 stassats: depends on naming convention 06:56:54 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:56:59 cpc26: Yes, I know Drei is broken. It's on my (very long) list of things to fix. 06:57:00 Why is make-foo* a bad name? 06:57:11 a naming convention where make-foo* is a good name is a bad naming convention 06:57:15 very cool, thanks!! 06:57:55 drmeister: easy to mistake when doing auto-completion, %make-foo is the usual idiom 06:58:06 Got it. 06:58:45 cpc26: Don't hold your breath though. It will take some time. 06:59:02 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.206.246] has joined #lisp 06:59:03 If I use (defstruct (foo (:constructor %make-foo)) ...) The %make-foo constructor won't use boa lambda list - correct? 06:59:17 incorrect 06:59:48 Ok, so as soon as I use :constructor - I've got a constructor with a boa lambda list? 07:00:27 no, even if you don't specify :constructor 07:01:00 drmeister: I usually use our defstruct-wrapping utility macro, which does things like allow destructuring the fields into local variables, and doing constructor setup bodies. It helps quite a lot when getting into issues like this 07:01:27 once you figure out your needs, consider the macros that would have solved the problem for you 07:02:32 wrapping everything in macros is a good way to make your code inaccessible to others 07:03:08 depends on the complexity of the macro, and how its naming structure differs from idiomatic & built-in functions 07:03:51 Yeah, I'm inclined to go with vanilla Common Lisp. 07:04:14 I've got to get some sleep. I'll dig deeper into struct constructors tomorrow - thanks everyone. 07:04:19 drmeister: but the 2nd or 3rd time you want to start doing custom things with struct initialization, you'll likely reconsider ;) 07:05:20 I appreciate what you are saying. I'm quick to write macros myself - I love them to death. But this is a one-off thing. I've been quite happy with the keyword initialization of structs. 07:05:34 CADD [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has joined #lisp 07:05:56 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:06:05 -!- CADD is now known as Guest81947 07:15:05 -!- Guest81947 [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 07:17:19 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:24:08 gadmyth [~user@180.169.135.180] has joined #lisp 07:34:50 QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:38:22 ggole [~ggole@124-168-246-168.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 07:39:46 -!- Fare [~fare@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:40:34 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:41:05 aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 07:46:02 yangfinder [~yang@180.117.111.13] has joined #lisp 07:50:19 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:51:18 -!- Watcher7 [~w@108.216.28.176] has quit [Quit: h] 07:57:30 -!- milosn [~milosn@94.12.79.143] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:58:27 milosn [~milosn@94.12.79.143] has joined #lisp 08:01:58 nand1 [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:06:22 CADD [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has joined #lisp 08:06:45 -!- CADD is now known as Guest69358 08:08:16 patapon [~deglingo@ALille-251-1-119-88.w86-208.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:10:57 -!- Guest69358 [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has quit [Client Quit] 08:16:47 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 08:17:12 Hmm. I should probably port the Clueless inspector in CLIM3/CLIMatis to McCLIM. 08:17:42 -!- yangfinder [~yang@180.117.111.13] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:17:45 It is very handy when it comes to debugging pane hierarchies of running applications. 08:20:21 ASau [~user@p54AFEA0F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:26:32 ivan-kanis [~user@lns-c10k-ft-02-t2-89-83-137-164.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 08:26:36 xvzf [~gergoe@pool-055df.externet.hu] has joined #lisp 08:26:45 fine article http://replove.herokuapp.com/ 08:27:42 I don't understand 9) The storage of information on the property lists of atoms. 08:28:53 it's both wrong, and bogus even if it weren't wrong 08:29:08 symbols have plists, but they are largely useless nowadays 08:31:39 hi there I am coming from the types universe of ML. I have to understand some nqthm code that is written in lisp. What introduction would you recommend to read? 08:31:47 typed 08:32:10 minion: please tell xvzf about PCL 08:32:10 xvzf: have a look at PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 08:32:17 -!- nug700 [~nug700@71-223-97-227.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 08:32:58 -!- vkrest_ [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:33:31 stepnem [~stepnem@77.78.117.8] has joined #lisp 08:34:14 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.197.12] has left #lisp 08:36:33 stassats, thanks 08:39:16 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 08:39:18 ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@178.240.229.26] has joined #lisp 08:39:22 -!- ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@178.240.229.26] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:39:24 -!- zajn [~zajn@airbears2-136-152-142-34.AirBears2.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Quit: zajn] 08:40:11 febeling [~febeling@f048249027.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:47:04 codeburg [~codeburg@gateway/tor-sasl/codeburg] has joined #lisp 08:47:24 nice game https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cZ2t4HXyczM 08:47:36 oxum_ [~oxum@122.174.17.179] has joined #lisp 08:47:46 -!- aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 08:48:03 (its in lisp) 08:48:39 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.86.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:48:40 -!- oxum_ is now known as oxum 08:51:19 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:53:27 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 08:54:48 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:56:45 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:59:11 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:00:33 -!- ehu 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Quit] 12:40:23 hiroakip [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-218-254.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 12:41:12 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-52-240.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:41:41 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:41:53 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:43:16 -!- codeburg [~codeburg@gateway/tor-sasl/codeburg] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:46:00 guicho [~guicho@h219-110-64-227.catv02.itscom.jp] has joined #lisp 12:51:02 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:51:31 Twipply [~Twipply3@cpc17-mapp10-2-0-cust179.12-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 12:57:59 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5059:6770:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 13:00:03 zfx [~zfx@host109-156-138-158.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:04:34 -!- zfx [~zfx@host109-156-138-158.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:10:49 -!- Twipply [~Twipply3@cpc17-mapp10-2-0-cust179.12-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:12:14 -!- ktx [~ktx@unaffiliated/ktx] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:16:49 zfx [~zfx@host109-156-138-158.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:17:31 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:18:07 How's that? 13:20:03 hitecnologys: how's what? 13:20:59 -!- zfx [~zfx@host109-156-138-158.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:22:12 zfx [~zfx@host109-156-138-158.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:22:22 ktx [~ktx@unaffiliated/ktx] has joined #lisp 13:23:47 stassats: how's that possible that you just, apparently, reproduced this bug and can't reproduce it again? 13:24:04 codeburg [~codeburg@gateway/tor-sasl/codeburg] has joined #lisp 13:24:13 because it's a tricky bug 13:25:02 -!- patapon [~deglingo@ALille-251-1-119-88.w86-208.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:25:52 And all it does is just makes GET-HOST-BY-NAME refuse to resolve addresses? 13:26:21 yes 13:26:59 fiveop [~fiveop@p5DDC458B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:27:20 Hmm. Sounds pretty weird to me. 13:27:34 -!- yangfinder [~yang@180.117.111.13] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:28:30 -!- zfx [~zfx@host109-156-138-158.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:28:46 patapon [~deglingo@ALille-251-1-119-88.w86-208.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:29:05 -!- DalekBaldwin [~user@ip68-231-209-84.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:29:29 aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 13:29:33 Have you tried debugging sbcl process in order to see where gethostbyname fails? 13:30:21 i can't reproduce it, okay? 13:30:29 Ah, I see. 13:30:48 I just thought you still have that state. 13:35:21 LiamH [~none@96.231.217.60] has joined #lisp 13:37:45 n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:9de1:8e0c:a812:37d0] has joined #lisp 13:42:06 bhyde [~bhyde@198.199.88.224] has joined #lisp 13:43:37 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:45:07 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has joined #lisp 13:46:04 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:9de1:8e0c:a812:37d0] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:46:12 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:06 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:6c45:b423:39fa:e336] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:48:29 -!- PuffTheMagic [uid3325@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ssgupsnyilosjazf] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:49:50 PuffTheMagic [uid3325@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-txgsbrjzkqoiabmi] has joined #lisp 13:49:51 -!- Petit_Dejeuner [~saefa@c-174-48-40-89.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:50:16 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:55:04 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.23] has joined #lisp 13:55:31 mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.227] has joined #lisp 13:57:22 -!- Denommus [~AndChat67@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:57:28 Denommus` [~AndChat67@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 13:58:35 kenanb [~user@unaffiliated/kenanb] has joined #lisp 14:00:02 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.23] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:00:42 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.97.23] has joined #lisp 14:06:13 -!- patapon [~deglingo@ALille-251-1-119-88.w86-208.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:06:17 dbh [~user@182.55.3.19] has joined #lisp 14:07:20 EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:c5c7:95d9:8d15:d3de] has joined #lisp 14:08:37 patapon [~deglingo@ALille-251-1-119-88.w86-208.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:15:01 Denommus [~AndChat67@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 14:15:01 -!- Denommus` [~AndChat67@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:15:26 Denommus` [~AndChat67@189-48-181-49.user.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #lisp 14:15:37 -!- Denommus` [~AndChat67@189-48-181-49.user.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Changing host] 14:15:37 Denommus` [~AndChat67@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 14:16:41 AndChat-671600 [~AndChat67@177-208-120-185.user3g.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #lisp 14:16:57 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@112.222.211.114] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:17:21 nilsi_ [~nilsi@112.222.211.114] has joined #lisp 14:17:40 -!- Denommus` [~AndChat67@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:18:06 -!- BlackWabi [~wabi@c83-191-78-163.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:18:51 Denommus` [~AndChat67@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 14:19:05 -!- Denommus [~AndChat67@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:21:01 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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[~user@unaffiliated/kenanb] has joined #lisp 17:09:47 Alfr [~Unknown@g226032071.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:09:48 # 17:10:28 amaron [~amaron@net121-78-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs] has joined #lisp 17:11:44 This is conforming code right? (defun ff (l) (compile nil `(lambda (x) (setf (car ',l) x)))) 17:12:15 I mean, to COMPILE it looks like constant data is being modified, but that is not really the case. 17:12:54 a sufficiently picky implementation would take what CLHS QUOTE says literally (pun intended) 17:13:06 "The consequences are undefined if literal objects (including quoted objects) are destructively modified." 17:13:27 I see. 17:13:53 sbcl is sufficiently picky, if I remember correctly 17:14:06 we have to jump through some hoops in PCL to do what we want to in this kind of way 17:14:08 Well, SBCL gives me a warning. 17:14:19 But the code works as intended. 17:14:22 yeah 17:15:12 So, the next question is: assuming the implementation I use will work, how do I convince it to skip the warning, preferably in a portable way? 17:15:36 -!- nichtdiebohne [~nichtdieb@kons-4d03e692.pool.mediaways.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 17:15:51 (defun ff (l) (handler-bind ((warning #'muffle-warning)) (compile nil `(lambda (x) (setf (car ',l) x))))) 17:16:06 Excellent! Thanks! 17:16:25 (defun ff (l) (compile nil (lambda (x) (setf (car l) x)))) works as well. 17:16:39 if the question wasn't about compile and muffling. 17:16:57 pjb: But that doesn't do the same thing. 17:17:10 It was intented to do the same thing. 17:17:14 nichtdiebohne [~nichtdieb@kons-4d03e692.pool.mediaways.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:20 beach: what difference do you see? 17:17:39 pjb: I do not want the compiled code to close over a variable. 17:17:48 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 17:17:49 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 17:17:49 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 17:18:01 all right. 17:18:23 [I won't bore you with the details] 17:18:28 Are the conses important, or just the list? Could ff generate a copy of the list? 17:18:39 -!- amaron [~amaron@net121-78-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:18:44 No copy is allowed. 17:19:20 Then if no copy and no closure are allowed, I think we have to go into non-conforming space. 17:19:50 pjb: Krystof's solution is fine. 17:19:51 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.206.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:19:59 at least for cons cells. For vectors or hash-tables it would work (but not if you try to save the generated functions to a fasl file). 17:20:11 Sure. 17:25:25 JuanDaugherty [~juand@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:25:43 nisstyre_ [~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 17:27:40 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.53.36] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 17:28:02 -!- nichtdiebohne [~nichtdieb@kons-4d03e692.pool.mediaways.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 17:28:24 -!- shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-xezwswatwwxddeto] has quit [Quit: shridhar] 17:28:47 Fare [~fare@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:29:24 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.164.189.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 17:29:34 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-153-81.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:30:34 -!- jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:31:23 -!- wbooze is now known as homie 17:31:33 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 17:34:20 -!- homie is now known as wbooze 17:35:04 compile can't really close over a variable 17:35:18 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Client Quit] 17:35:25 Right. 17:37:18 The code that pjb suggested first creates a (possibly interpreted) function that closes over the variable and then that function is compiled. 17:37:22 `(lambda (x) (setf (car (load-time-value ',l)) x)) is another way 17:37:44 sirdancealot [~koo5@194.228.11.172] has joined #lisp 17:38:00 at least sbcl is not smart enough here 17:38:24 stassats: Thanks! 17:39:15 The resulting code ought to be the same, right? 17:39:52 almost 17:39:59 nichtdiebohne [~nichtdieb@kons-4d03e692.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:40:47 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 17:40:55 Now, does your code violate the clause that Krystof quoted? 17:42:05 I am thinking not! 17:42:05 like putting quoted lists into read-only space? it's not safe against that 17:42:42 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 17:43:02 *beach* reads the page on load-time-value. 17:44:13 Hard to say really. 17:44:21 `(lambda (x) (setf (car (load-time-value `,(copy-list l))) x)) is safe, but may not do what you want 17:45:13 Right, I need to modify the original CONS cell. 17:45:20 -!- sirdancealot [~koo5@194.228.11.172] has quit [Quit: Ragequit] 17:45:55 you just need to ensure that FF is never called on quoted lists 17:45:57 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-153-81.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:46:00 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-153-81.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:46:07 I can do that, indeed. 17:46:22 because "Literal objects appearing in code processed by the compile function are neither copied nor coalesced." 17:47:55 so, modifying an otherwise non-quoted list should be safe no matter what happens to quoted lists during COMPILE-FILE 17:49:12 Right. I think I have all the information I need. Thanks Krystof, pjb, stassats! 17:49:34 ikki [~ikki@201.164.189.59] has joined #lisp 17:50:29 -!- nisstyre_ [~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:50:43 nisstyre_ [~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 17:54:15 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 17:56:45 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-153-81.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:56:54 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.164.189.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:57:33 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-153-81.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:59:42 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-218-254.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:01:51 -!- antonv`` [~user@93.171.161.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:03:47 -!- Guest79646 [~iwilcox@16.255.208.46.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 18:04:05 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.56] has joined #lisp 18:07:45 arubin [~textual@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:54 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@219.144.139.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:08:30 shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-yekbvzjilqwxfolp] has joined #lisp 18:13:51 hey that's an interesting feature of load-time-value: "If nil (the default), the result must be neither copied nor coalesced; it must be considered to be potentially modifiable data." 18:14:24 (assert (not (eq (load-time-value '(a)) (load-time-value '(a))))). 18:14:47 and (setf (car (load-time-value '(a))) 'b) 18:16:24 iwilcox [~iwilcox@unaffiliated/iwilcox] has joined #lisp 18:18:53 _0bitcount [~big-byte@213.37.172.145.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 18:21:21 KDr2 [~KDr2@222.90.163.20] has joined #lisp 18:21:51 hiroakip [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-218-254.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 18:23:15 aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 18:32:46 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:36:51 -!- _0bitcount [~big-byte@213.37.172.145.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:38:47 -!- genericus [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has left #lisp 18:40:47 Denommus` [~AndChat67@177-208-123-111.user3g.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #lisp 18:40:47 -!- Denommus` [~AndChat67@177-208-123-111.user3g.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Changing host] 18:40:47 Denommus` [~AndChat67@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 18:43:20 -!- Denommus [~AndChat67@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:44:41 -!- klltkr_ [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:45:53 r0b1 [~robert@subtle/contributor/robgleeson] has joined #lisp 18:48:02 -!- p_nathan [~Adium@174-21-165-174.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:48:09 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.206.246] has joined #lisp 18:48:48 -!- vibs29 [~lisper@host86-130-161-248.range86-130.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:50:46 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 18:54:21 klltkr_ [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 18:54:26 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:58 -!- naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 18:55:59 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:56:54 naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has joined #lisp 18:59:46 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-225-044.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:35 KarlDscc [~localhost@p5DD9D428.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:03:39 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 19:04:39 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9EAEB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:05:09 How do I make `read-line' use a specific line ending, different from my system's? 19:05:20 can't 19:05:35 -!- Denommus` [~AndChat67@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:05:42 didi: you rewrite it 19:05:59 oic 19:06:05 Denommus [~AndChat67@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 19:06:08 stassats, Fare: Thanks. 19:07:33 pjb: Aha, so stassats' version is conforming. 19:07:50 febeling [~febeling@f048249027.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:08:04 slacko25328 [~root@dslb-092-075-234-235.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:08 slacko253282 [~root@dslb-092-075-234-235.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:11 didi: I hesitated about including that in uiop, but only ended up needing something weaker. I do have a read-line* in inferior-shell, though 19:08:37 -!- slacko253282 [~root@dslb-092-075-234-235.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:08:38 see inferior-shell/utilities.lisp 19:10:40 I'm using clbuild to try to install the clim-desktop project and clbuild insists in using darcs, but the repository is at github.com. What do I have to change? 19:11:29 grep your way around to the proper file 19:12:00 I've done "find ... -exec grep" for the file, but no joy 19:12:23 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-218-254.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:12:50 Fare: Inside uiop's source code? 19:12:52 where is your clbuild from? 19:12:58 The particular file not found is "babel/_darcs/prefs/defaultrepo". So how does clbuild know about that file? 19:13:00 didi: read-line* is in inferior-shell sources 19:13:07 OK. 19:13:39 Fare: From common-lisp.net/projects/ 19:16:04 I have it from git://gitorious.org/clbuild2/clbuild2.git — is that the latest? 19:16:45 grep clim **/*(.) finds a few files 19:17:29 Fare: Is it in quicklisp? 19:17:30 that file isn't up to date. 19:17:37 I'm not finding `read-line*'. 19:17:39 didi: yes, inferior-shell should be in quicklisp 19:17:40 Fare: What command do I need to do to get from the git:site you mention 19:17:42 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-225-044.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:17:49 not in utilities? 19:17:54 maybe quicklisp isn't up to date? 19:18:08 Fare: inferior-shell-20130312-git 19:18:30 that sounds old 19:18:47 Fare: It's OK. Where is the repository? 19:18:58 jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:11 on cl.net, under qitab 19:19:18 Thanks. 19:19:23 -!- febeling [~febeling@f048249027.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: febeling] 19:20:17 Fare: I did "git clone git://gitorious.org/clbuild2/clbuild2.git". Should that have given me the latest clbuild? 19:22:13 probably 19:22:28 looks like it hasn't been updated much to keep up with quicklisp 19:22:35 -!- adsisco [uid25204@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kjdzaeshkaakvbca] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 19:22:41 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:49 you're welcome to make it work with quicklisp's database of projects, instead. 19:22:51 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:24:00 BlackWabi [~wabi@194.47.216.51] has joined #lisp 19:24:39 tumba [~user@108-237-52-120.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:22 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@119-150.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:27:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:27:57 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 19:29:51 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-103-73.w109-214.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 19:31:38 -!- Denommus [~AndChat67@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:34:48 -!- ggole [~ggole@124-168-246-168.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 19:38:02 -!- Alfr [~Unknown@g226032071.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:41:12 Watcher7 [~w@108.216.28.176] has joined #lisp 19:46:17 hiroakip [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-218-254.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 19:47:25 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 19:47:58 -!- Ayey_ [~rune1@2-106-141-211-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 19:53:35 -!- slacko25328 [~root@dslb-092-075-234-235.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:53:58 slacko25328 [~root@dslb-092-075-234-235.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:07 -!- slacko25328 is now known as slackoLX 19:54:11 didi: with clisp, you can specify the line ending in the encoding (external-format), but clisp uses it only for output. For input, it always use lf cr? | cr ; in anycase you can't specify a random code, unless you build a new charset. 19:54:15 -!- slackoLX is now known as slacko_LX 19:54:54 WarWeasle [~bbeer@172.242.21.170] has joined #lisp 19:55:14 vibs29 [~lisper@94.116.5.77] has joined #lisp 19:55:59 Ayey [~rune1@2-106-141-211-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:36 -!- slacko_LX [~root@dslb-092-075-234-235.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:59:25 -!- kenanb [~user@unaffiliated/kenanb] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:02:59 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-246-18-219.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:08:04 Why does (defparameter *a* 1) (push 2 *a*) -> (2 . 1)? Is there a good reason for this? I just caught a bug in my code where I was pushing a value onto another value that should have been a list. 20:08:19 Joreji [~thomas@173-254.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 20:08:22 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:08:22 (cons 2 1) == (2 . 1) 20:10:47 I understand that. It's that my expectation was out of line with what PUSH does. 20:12:15 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:24 it's faster to just cons than to always check type first 20:12:50 jackdaniel: there's no type violation 20:12:51 drmeister: try (macroexpand-1 '(push 1 *x*)) 20:13:52 -!- jathd` [~user@2a01:e34:ee5a:9450:21e:c2ff:fe9d:bd3c] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:13:55 H4ns: Got it. 20:14:04 jathd [~user@2a01:e34:ee5a:9450:21e:c2ff:fe9d:bd3c] has joined #lisp 20:14:21 -!- nichtdiebohne [~nichtdieb@kons-4d03e692.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:15:16 Denommus [~AndChat67@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 20:15:22 pjb: Thanks. For now, I stolen Fare's function. 20:15:34 s/stolen/stole 20:16:07 or you can :depends-on (:inferior-shell) 20:17:04 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 20:17:08 axion [~axion@cpe-67-246-18-219.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:17:09 -!- jewel_ [~jewel@105-237-57-213.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:17:35 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:17:48 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:49 vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has joined #lisp 20:18:14 Fare: is cl-launch your project? 20:18:32 -!- Joreji [~thomas@173-254.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:19:58 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@222.90.163.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:20:04 LiamH, yes, though I'm trying to find a new maintainer 20:20:15 any issue with it? 20:20:39 KDr2 [~KDr2@222.90.163.20] has joined #lisp 20:21:10 zajn [~zajn@airbears2-136-152-142-15.AirBears2.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 20:21:49 http://paste.lisp.org/+30ZO 20:22:10 -!- vibs29 is now known as lisper29 20:22:23 How do I pass a core file to sbcl in cl-launch? 20:22:28 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 20:22:31 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has left #lisp 20:24:26 LiamH: I believe you need to dump executable cores 20:24:41 cl-launch assumes cores are executable on implementations that allow that 20:24:57 brandonz [~brandon@c-50-131-126-204.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:28 Fare: I'm not sure what that means. I did a save-lisp-and-die, so I have a file that I specify with --core to sbcl. 20:25:43 try :executable t 20:26:09 emma_ [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 20:26:12 Fare: OK, I didn't know about that. Then what happens? 20:26:30 LiamH: it appends the core to a copy of SBCL runtime 20:26:51 p_l: Oh, OK 20:27:38 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-218-254.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:30:29 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:30:57 -!- Fare [~fare@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:30:59 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5059:6770:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 20:31:17 -!- tumba [~user@108-237-52-120.lightspeed.snantx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:31:29 -!- lisper29 [~lisper@94.116.5.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:31:56 nichtdiebohne [~nichtdieb@kons-4d03e692.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:19 -!- MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 20:33:52 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #lisp 20:34:19 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-50-188-34-170.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:19 Codynyx [~cody@c-50-188-34-170.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:32 vibs29 [~lisper@94.117.139.106] has joined #lisp 20:38:44 Path problem is the same 20:39:18 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:39:31 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: brb] 20:39:32 It always looks for the image file in /usr/share/common-lisp/source/cl-launch/ regardless of what's specified in the argument. 20:39:45 -!- aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:40:12 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 20:40:24 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 20:40:36 -!- KarlDscc [~localhost@p5DD9D428.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:40:40 -!- 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[uid25204@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-wdrhlpjaghlhtosf] has joined #lisp 20:48:05 brandonz [~brandon@c-50-131-126-204.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:57 RenJuan [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:51:05 -!- emma_ [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:51:32 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:51:46 hiroakip [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-218-254.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 20:53:27 -!- CrazyEddy [~seaworn@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:53:32 cory786 [~cory@75-22-101-128.lightspeed.dblnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:18 drmeister: Furthermore, it's specified that way: push item place => new-place-value / place---a place, the value of which may be any object. 21:00:18 21:02:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:02:34 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] 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Unfortunately, the only language I know that implements it is Rust, which is not a Lisp 22:31:01 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:31:21 Isn't Fare interested in writing a linear lisp system? 22:31:39 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:33:10 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-153-38.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:33:43 thanks, Denommus, "Rust implements it" explains it a lot better than the paper does... 22:34:03 I kind of assumed Forth/Factor/other stack-based languages implemented it, but I don't really understand all of this well enough 22:35:30 Rust's safe management, at least, can't deal with circular datastructures, which must then be either garbage collected, or manually managed. 22:36:00 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 22:36:31 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:38:12 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 22:39:28 -!- emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:39:33 -!- emma_ is now known as emma 22:39:50 antonv`` [~user@93.171.161.176] has joined #lisp 22:40:27 Maybe something similar could be possible if someone created a Lisp syntax for C - perhaps this could allow something with the power of C++'s templates and Rust's owned pointers, but with a much cleaner syntax. As opposed to the standard garbage-collected Lisp implementations. 22:40:34 cdidd [~cdidd@128-75-237-85.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 22:40:35 Has anyone done something like make a Lisp syntax for C? 22:41:11 There are multiple such implementations. 22:41:13 Some Lisp-like language that compiles down to C, basically. 22:41:15 Oh... 22:41:26 there's ffi backends 22:41:51 With calls to malloc/free, void pointers, and everything? 22:42:17 Looking for a link.. 22:42:25 http://voodoo-slide.blogspot.com/2010/01/amplifying-c.html 22:42:27 Thanks! 22:42:37 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.164.189.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:43:07 http://super.para.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp/~tasuku/sc/index.html 22:43:08 Yes. 22:43:27 -!- fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:44:37 Awesome! I couldn't find it myself, but I'm glad you knew where to look 22:48:49 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:49:18 -!- lisper29 [~lisper@94.117.139.106] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:49:32 -!- Poenikatu [~kvirc@pdpc/supporter/bronze/poenikatu] has left #lisp 22:49:59 I wonder why neither of these have caught on at all.... 22:50:19 black0ut [~black0ut@p5DDDAAF7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:50:30 -!- sellout- [~Adium@2601:1:9b80:128:79a7:50b4:b489:e0c0] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:50:36 C's pretty entrenched. 22:55:41 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:59:29 normanrichards [~textual@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 23:00:06 -!- matko [~matko@ip82-139-125-221.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:27 Fare [~fare@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:01:11 Ethan- [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:20 -!- Denommus [~AndChat67@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:01:38 Denommus [~AndChat67@177.208.211.89] has joined #lisp 23:01:38 -!- Denommus [~AndChat67@177.208.211.89] has quit [Changing host] 23:01:38 Denommus [~AndChat67@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 23:01:55 -!- doomlord_ [~servitor@host109-151-65-32.range109-151.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:07:13 -!- RenJuan [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Exit IRC/Hiberate] 23:08:36 -!- Denommus [~AndChat67@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:10:46 Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-229-227-14.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:11:16 -!- marsam [~marsam@146.185.180.111] has quit [Quit: ()] 23:12:08 marsam [~marsam@146.185.180.111] has joined #lisp 23:13:52 -!- marsam [~marsam@146.185.180.111] has quit [Client Quit] 23:14:08 -!- normanrichards [~textual@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 23:14:41 marsam [~marsam@146.185.180.111] has joined #lisp 23:18:38 -!- WarWeasle [~bbeer@172.242.21.170] has left #lisp 23:20:15 -!- M00R1Z [~M00R1Z@213.219.156.4.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Quit: M00R1Z] 23:20:52 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:21:23 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 23:21:33 -!- Ayey [~rune1@2-106-141-211-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:22:16 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 23:27:01 alexherbo21 [~alexherbo@mawercer.de] has joined #lisp 23:27:07 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-57-239.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 23:27:11 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-4db40ddd.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:27:53 -!- alexherbo21 [~alexherbo@mawercer.de] has quit [Client Quit] 23:28:01 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@mawercer.de] has joined #lisp 23:30:36 Shinmera_ [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 23:31:29 stanislav [~stanislav@bl21-85-189.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:32:07 -!- stanislav is now known as quasus 23:32:19 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-153-81.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 23:33:36 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:39:05 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 23:39:55 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-153-81.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:41:17 vibs29 [~lisper@host86-130-161-248.range86-130.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 23:43:18 sohail_ [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 23:45:23 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:45:45 vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has joined #lisp 23:46:53 -!- mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.122] has quit [Quit: mc40] 23:47:22 nha [~prefect@koln-4db40ddd.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 23:47:58 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:5059:6770:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:48:31 urandom__ [~user@p548A14DD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:49:34 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@adsl-75-10-252-113.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:54:14 -!- j_king [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:57:58 ASau` [~user@p54AFEE4D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:58:12 M00R1Z [~M00R1Z@213.219.156.4.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:48 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:59:50 -!- nichtdiebohne [~nichtdieb@kons-4d03e692.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...]