00:00:13 -!- Vaporatorius [~vaporator@220.Red-79-151-13.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:00:31 -!- milanj [~milanj@cable-178-148-18-137.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:00:48 -!- ASau [~user@p5083D535.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:01:41 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@128.120.116.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:03:04 I wonder how effective this IRC spamming is at increasing hit rate? 00:03:22 stepnem [~stepnem@77.78.117.8] has joined #lisp 00:05:17 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Quit: disconnecting] 00:07:20 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:07:33 nyef: everybody will have /ignored it by this time, no? 00:07:47 if it weren't profitable, they wouldn't be continuing to do so 00:08:21 White_Flame: Not quite the case. It could simply be cheap enough to be not worth evaluating for profitability. 00:08:52 Now, we have the IP address, perhaps some ICE would be in order? 00:09:14 I've worked with people who have built automated marketing chat bots. It's likely cheaper to run today than it used to be, but it's not insignificantly cheap 00:09:18 Is the IP address stable, or is it from a botnet? 00:09:28 I've not checked. 00:09:33 Grab the logs. 00:09:55 Couldn't be bothered... and I'm technically still on the clock right now. 00:10:21 So it doesn't scratch enough yet :-) 00:10:25 itch 00:10:44 I always confuse Itchy and Scratchy up. 00:10:52 all the instances in my current client log (about 10 of them) show the same IP address 00:11:04 Good. 00:11:34 ah, except this last one 00:11:49 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:12 used to be 77.231.59.198 for everything before the last one (again, in my client's scrollback buffer) 00:12:57 hrs [~textual@199.47.74.43] has joined #lisp 00:13:50 Is that IP in the ban list? 00:14:07 -!- hrs [~textual@199.47.74.43] has quit [Client Quit] 00:14:10 -!- _paul0 [~paul0@177.96.175.89] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 00:15:35 Watcher7ish [~w@108.216.22.50] has joined #lisp 00:15:54 -!- Watcher7 [~w@108.216.22.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:16:27 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.130.7.57] has joined #lisp 00:16:43 The new IP is an anonymous proxy IP. 00:16:47 looks like it. Xach banned that address 00:17:23 can we ban by username Abby?? instead? 00:17:29 Yes. 00:17:38 Of course, it's bad for all the Abbies of the world. 00:17:50 for all the Abby + two digits in the world, but yes 00:18:03 Ethan- [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 00:18:35 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 00:18:43 hrs [~user@199.47.74.43] has joined #lisp 00:20:25 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.66.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:20:53 If they've gone to the trouble of moving to an anonymous proxy (assuming that the original wasn't) then they're getting SOME benefit (not necessarily economic) from the change. 00:22:06 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.93.183] has joined #lisp 00:24:02 Abby's spam text is always the same, as well. " I give you some pictures. I hope you like! "+url, with leading space. If there's an ops bot, it could temp ban on that msg trigger 00:24:35 That's too late. 00:24:50 it would stop the retries that it currently does, but yes one would get through per ip 00:25:33 Quick, I need the name of a famous spiritual medium for a test case. 00:25:53 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.16.106] has joined #lisp 00:26:07 nostradamus 00:26:14 John Holland? 00:26:32 ten famous: http://www.psychic-readings-guide.com/famous-mediums.html 00:26:37 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: lifeform experiment disconnected into eternal confusion] 00:26:40 Thank you. 00:26:45 So you can make ten test cases :-) 00:26:51 r0b2 [~robert@subtle/contributor/robgleeson] has joined #lisp 00:27:42 Heh. I just need the one right now, but I keep running into the need to test things to do with artistic mediums, and taking the name "medium" inappropriately keeps me amused. (-: 00:28:17 (When testing the behavior of an "artist" field I made heavy weather of the Ninja Turtles.) 00:28:27 Maureen Hancock is nice too. 00:29:10 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Quit: going home] 00:29:52 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 00:30:16 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-242-53-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:31:28 -!- hrs [~user@199.47.74.43] has left #lisp 00:35:22 bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 00:41:21 -!- percopal [~percopal@63.65.76.38] has quit [Quit: percopal] 00:46:59 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9C0C2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:48:34 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@ssl-air2.ssl.berkeley.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:51:51 n0n0 [~n0n0___@ssl-air2.ssl.berkeley.edu] has joined #lisp 00:52:04 -!- sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:54:09 -!- innertracks 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seconds] 01:29:46 -!- karswell [~user@84.93.180.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:30:06 arubin [~textual@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:09 Ralt [Ralt@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:6c69] has joined #lisp 01:30:11 -!- pchrist [spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:30:36 -!- Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:30:40 -!- nichtdiebohne [~nichtdieb@kons-4d03e178.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 01:30:43 ineiros [~itniemin@bayesianconspiracy.org] has joined #lisp 01:30:44 Subfusc [~Subfusc@tjenen.de] has joined #lisp 01:31:13 andares [~andares@unaffiliated/jacco] has joined #lisp 01:31:49 -!- knob3212 [~knob@ppp-196-42-51-92.coqui.net] has left #lisp 01:32:13 -!- knob is now known as Guest11308 01:32:51 pchrist [spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 01:34:23 -!- frx [frx@93-141-20-205.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:34:28 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:34:41 frx [frx@93-138-30-173.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 01:35:04 araujo [~araujo@190.73.46.113] has joined #lisp 01:35:08 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.46.113] has quit [Changing host] 01:35:08 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 01:35:31 LiamH [~none@96.231.217.60] has joined #lisp 01:38:33 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has joined #lisp 01:40:10 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-24-60-1-249.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:42:09 -!- Ralt [Ralt@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:6c69] has quit [Quit: Bye] 01:42:39 Ralt [Ralt@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:6c69] has joined #lisp 01:45:11 -!- Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:46:23 kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:46:53 prim [~otaku@unaffiliated/prim] has joined #lisp 01:47:32 -!- logand`` [~user@f053069053.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:48:15 Fare [~fare@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:53:08 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has joined #lisp 01:53:19 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@77.78.117.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:54:56 I'm just looking through the SBCL git log to try and find a particular commit when I see the value "Approximately 1/pi" mentioned in a commit message (one that I wrote). It's still an amusing fraction when applied to a function. 01:56:54 -!- frx [frx@93-138-30-173.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [] 02:02:03 -!- arigoins [~ari@fs5.wan.abq.citylinkwireless.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:03:59 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 02:06:56 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:09:02 -!- MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:09:23 -!- Kiryx [~Kiryx@85-202-48-130.internetia.net.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:10:54 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 02:14:29 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:16:22 jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:19 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:21:13 nisstyre [~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 02:25:43 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-vdsvkfrmholsxupd] has joined #lisp 02:26:11 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.183.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:28:02 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 02:29:15 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-24-60-1-249.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:29:57 Codynyx [~cody@c-50-188-34-170.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:30:39 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@mpk-nat-7.thefacebook.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:31:14 vkrest [~vkrest@mpk-nat-7.thefacebook.com] has joined #lisp 02:31:22 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@mpk-nat-7.thefacebook.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:31:28 has cl21 been discussed here? 02:31:38 vkrest [~vkrest@2620:0:1cfe:18:7961:f08b:854f:c264] has joined #lisp 02:31:51 its relevance just popped on my radar, via BrianRice 02:32:40 *kanru* saw it on hacker news 02:33:02 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.189.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 02:34:02 -!- pierre1__ [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:37:16 ... I'd say that it's water under the bridge, but not only is it a horrible pun it's plausibly untrue. 02:37:46 Fare: it's relevant? 02:38:09 Just say that you've passed a lot of water over that subject. 02:38:25 What is cl21? 02:38:51 Zhivago: I can't describe it without assigning it more relevance than it' 02:38:53 Ah. Found it via a japanese blog. 02:38:53 Zhivago: I can't describe it without assigning it more relevance than it's worth 02:39:40 Fare: what do you think about cl12? 02:40:00 Looks like a reasonable idea. :) 02:40:04 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:41:22 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.28.47] has quit [Quit: ...] 02:41:40 For those of us who are still working, and thus too busy to do the basic search, URL? 02:41:54 https://github.com/fukamachi/cl21 02:41:55 seems ill-conceived to me 02:42:26 http://cl21.org/ 02:42:41 What about it seems ill conceived? 02:43:49 Greenspun's 10th rule as applied to Lisp itself :) 02:44:12 the examples given on the web page are only issues to one-app wonders, not to those doing long-term dev in CL 02:44:47 Can you be more specific? 02:44:51 but a skim of the page looks like it could be implemented easily in functions & a few reader macros in existing lisp 02:44:56 nope :) 02:45:34 Data: Then perhaps your criticism is ill conceived. :) 02:45:37 ah, so it is just a library, not a new langauge implementation: "CL21 is written in pure Common Lisp and intended to run on a Common Lisp implementation." 02:46:15 prxq_ [~mommer@x2f6902a.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lisp 02:46:18 DataLinkDroid: Mostly, yes. But the magic string expansions it just plain weird. I'd much rather it be clear that strings are processed using something liek FORMAT 02:46:19 then CL will be much slower than before :) 02:46:24 see White_Flame comments. i also got the impression that it is trying to be a CL replacement. first impression. 02:47:01 White_Flame: right, I also like to think about it as library 02:47:09 I'm disinclined to take it seriously. 02:47:12 loke: string expansion is not so magic 02:47:29 antonv: So where does the $-expansion happen? In princ? 02:47:32 loke: do you know cl-interpol library 02:47:53 loke: I think in cl21 it works the same as in cl-interpol - redefining " reader macro 02:48:11 Presumably it compiles to CL, at least, for the initial bootstrapping. 02:48:15 antonv: Right, so strings become magic :-) 02:48:24 loke: ok 02:48:33 Zhivago: it doesn't compile, it's just a library 02:48:43 Zhivago: of functions and macros 02:49:21 -!- prxq [~mommer@x2f66ccb.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:49:28 including replacements for some of the standard cl: stuff, so it's actually a bit more intrusive than a plain library 02:50:03 White_Flame: yes, a bit more 02:50:13 sohail_ [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 02:51:12 antonv: Consider what a macro is. :) 02:51:25 cl21 still needs a CL impl. to run it ? 02:51:43 and I don't see anything where it redefines (symbolp 'nil) -> , so I do not consider it a worthy update to CL ;) 02:52:01 arg, I even got that wrong. (symbolp '()) -> 02:52:08 Why wouldn't 'nil produce a symbol? 02:52:14 I kind of like the idea of a package exporting both cl and some choice/popular utilities, and I like the author's taste on a lot of those. I'm a bit neutral about it not exporting some of the least used cl symbols, but I'm skeptical of reusing symbol names from :cl for different functionality and renaming :cl operators 02:52:16 -!- klltkr_ [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 02:53:02 -!- vibs29 [~zorro@host86-130-161-248.range86-130.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:53:17 Zhivago: my own pet peeve & opinions would have me break out the equality of the symbol nil and the empty list in some hypothetical successor to common lisp 02:53:20 vibs29 [~lisper@host86-130-161-248.range86-130.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 02:53:54 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:54:48 And presumably false? 02:55:05 White_Flame: In such a hypothetic Lisp, would the symbol NIL have any specific significance? 02:55:41 I'd rather the symbol nil have a default (or likely constant) value of an empty list 02:55:52 as opposed to being one and the same 02:56:01 sellout- [~Adium@2601:1:9b80:128:9cf6:6e8:bdf8:4b9b] has joined #lisp 02:56:09 again, would not be compatible with common lisp, hypothetical, etc 02:56:41 That sounds pretty horrible, really. 02:56:53 White_Flame: Would it have any concrete difference, other than (symbolp '()) being false? 02:57:14 I can see differentiating t/nil () and 'nil. 02:57:26 But making nil evaluate to () ... 02:57:28 the biggest problem I've had with it is doing cons tree walkers, performing operations on symbolp elements, forgetting to check for nil first 02:58:20 and in DSLs, if the (non common lisp) user ever dares to use 'nil' for a symbol, that's another special case to try to bolt in 02:58:55 it's definitely more of a nuisance than a "This breaks Common Lisp!" issue 02:59:16 So, here's one for you: Would anyone's code break if NIL was a keyword? 02:59:40 White_Flame: Fair enough. You make a good point. It's hard to argue that it would be worth greaking compatibility in a hypothetical CL-20xx 02:59:49 Personally, I'd like to see true/false, (), nil, null, and undefined separated. :) 02:59:52 I mean the fact that symbolp of the empty list is true is a nuisance for me, not soemthing I claim is broken about CL 03:00:02 Zhivago: Then we'd have the mess that is Scheme 03:00:48 Zhivago: yeah, I'm sure many have thought about that, too. It becomes a mess in determining what should pass a boolean test 03:01:07 if only 'true' does, that's a ton more boilerplate for people to inject when performing tests 03:01:26 -!- twixonz [~Thunderbi@213-21-93-144.customer.t3.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:01:31 and if it's more inclusive than that, it's always the exactly wrong thing in some not-uncommon situation 03:01:38 Well, then you can produce a truthyish test. :) 03:01:51 -!- joshe [~joshe@onyx.elsasser.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:01:58 if-trulyish, when-trulyish, cond-trulyish, etc 03:02:11 joshe [~joshe@onyx.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 03:02:18 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:02:18 -!- nydel [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-yydqqomjabfkikax] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:02:23 (cond ((trulyish ..) ..) ((trulyish ...) ...)...) 03:02:30 kind of a mess 03:02:44 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-104-27.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:03:03 echo-area [~user@182.92.253.6] has joined #lisp 03:03:06 -!- DrForr_ [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:03:19 whenever I program Javascript, I always pop into a console to test whether or not empty arrays, floating point zeros, empty strings, etc, pass boolean tests 03:03:24 R_Robin [~kvirc@c-69-247-242-113.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:03:39 twixonz [~Thunderbi@213-21-93-144.customer.t3.se] has joined #lisp 03:03:39 since it's relatively inclusive in its booleans 03:03:46 -!- R_Robin [~kvirc@c-69-247-242-113.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #lisp 03:04:04 DrForr_ [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 03:04:06 nydel [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-sakpooodwtjufnag] has joined #lisp 03:04:58 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:05:32 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:06:22 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.130.7.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:06:26 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:08:12 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.130.7.57] has joined #lisp 03:09:50 -!- PuercoPop [PuercoPop@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:feae:c11b] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:10:59 matko [~matko@ip82-139-125-221.lijbrandt.net] has joined #lisp 03:12:10 n0n0 [~n0n0___@128.32.13.9] has joined #lisp 03:12:47 PuercoPop [PuercoPop@2600:3c01::f03c:91ff:feae:c11b] has joined #lisp 03:15:08 oxum [~oxum@122.164.11.204] has joined #lisp 03:15:36 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 03:15:56 mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.222] has joined #lisp 03:16:25 cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-104-27.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 03:21:44 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@128.32.13.9] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 03:24:16 n0n0 [~n0n0___@ssl-air2.ssl.berkeley.edu] has joined #lisp 03:25:35 -!- bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: bgs100] 03:26:31 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 03:30:14 -!- sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 03:31:15 Pullphinger [~Pullphing@c-24-13-69-42.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:08 I'd like to see a Lisp where, like Icon, any value is "true", fail is "false", and try-catch is "if". 03:34:17 ltbarcly_ [~textual@216.113.168.148] has joined #lisp 03:34:53 I think I'll do that for my linear lisp 03:35:07 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:35:09 What do you mean try-catch is if? 03:36:04 the colloquial "booleans" are termination and failure (i.e. calling the implicit "fail" continuation). 03:36:35 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 03:36:41 Fare: but chaving to check for failure codes is annoying, and the main reason for introducing exceptions in the first place 03:36:54 failure codes? nope, just a "fail" continuation. 03:37:24 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:37:35 that sort of smells a bit like Prolog 03:39:21 Prolog, snobol, icon 03:40:16 aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 03:41:37 I'm not claiming originality, here 03:41:44 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@ssl-air2.ssl.berkeley.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:41:58 exceptions might be yet another different continuation, or not. 03:48:03 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-228-63-82.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:48:17 -!- arubin [~textual@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 03:48:23 Fare: but usual cl:if calls implicit continuation - the 3-rd form 03:49:14 not on error/failure 03:49:20 Fare: your wish is my command: (defun fail () (error "fail")) (defmacro try-catch (form then else) `(handler-case ,form (error () ,else) (:no-error ,then))) 03:50:01 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:50:50 whereas in this iconish:if would instead bind the special *fail* continuation, etc. 03:51:04 -!- qdwsd [~user@cpe-71-66-118-0.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:51:04 -!- gwonvon [~user@cpe-71-66-118-0.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:51:19 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:27 pjb: I'm not saying it's conceptually novel or hard to implement. I'm saying it gives rise to a very different set of standard idioms. 03:52:12 and I want to experiment programming with them. 03:52:23 I do not understand about try-catch 03:52:30 or maybe I should go the haskell way and "just" have a monad for that. 03:52:35 Yes, that's what lisp is for, to experiment. 03:52:39 I've done a lot of production rule system programming, and yes it is very weird to consider "not" in terms of existence & success rather than false values 03:53:57 (defmacro icon:if (expr if-true if-false) `(handler-case ,expr (:no-error () ,if-true) (fail () ,if-false))) 03:54:11 -!- aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 03:54:22 Why not take all errors as well? 03:54:41 TDog [~chatzilla@67-1-96-199.tcso.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:54:52 how this icon:if is used in code? 03:55:13 the if-false is actually "on-fail-hanlder" 03:56:01 (icon:if (send-email) (format t "email sent~%") (format t "failed to send email~%")) 03:56:04 like this? 03:56:09 pjb: errors are usually more serious than the regular failure — but whichever the default is, the other is just one wrapping form away 03:57:14 With those operators, I guess more code would go into the "test" forms than in the then/else. 03:58:13 the 'then' would be for rippling out failures to the next outer continuation 03:58:55 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.217.60] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:58:59 (icon:if (> a 2) (princ "yes, A > 2") (princ "no, A is not > 2")) 03:59:13 so the > function signalls "fail" ? 03:59:20 t 03:59:22 antonv: yes 03:59:36 Now of course, it would be better if unifying was performed too. 03:59:41 actually, a better implementation would use a lexical binding, not special, for fail. 03:59:43 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:59:55 yet looking at the wiki page, there still are return values 04:00:19 simplest example being "while write(read())" 04:00:21 so every basic evaluation block would pass on the fail continuation 04:01:13 so (< a b c d) fails at the first non-< comparison it makes 04:01:45 It would help if there was lazy evaluation too. 04:01:50 -!- yrdz [~p_adams@unaffiliated/p-adams/x-7117614] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 04:01:51 how so? 04:02:05 -!- r0b2 [~robert@subtle/contributor/robgleeson] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:02:15 unification could be useful, indeed. Doesn't icon provide that, too? 04:02:27 No, I mean, lazy evaluation would be helped with this icon:if, since failing would avoid evaluating the remaining arguments. 04:03:28 still don't understand about this icon:if 04:03:53 how it changes programming, that logic is reduced to signalling "fail" or not signalling "fail" 04:04:07 I mean how it changes the code I write using these constructs 04:04:15 maybe the code remains the same? 04:04:25 the wiki page has some nice short examples 04:04:36 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icon_programming_language 04:04:50 will read the wiki 04:04:59 White_Flame: thanks, reading it already 04:05:02 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:09:43 n0n0 [~n0n0___@ssl-air2.ssl.berkeley.edu] has joined #lisp 04:09:51 -!- genericus [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has left #lisp 04:10:11 leo2007 [~leo@123.115.255.183] has joined #lisp 04:10:12 Does ASDF use timestamps to determine when to re-LOAD something during ASDF:LOAD-OP? 04:10:55 I believe it compares the file timestamp between the fasl and the source code 04:10:57 Perhaps file-write-date, but it's only 1 second granularity AFAIK. 04:12:18 which reminds me, is there a way to tell SLIME to put fasls somewhere else? 04:12:28 on C-c C-k builds 04:13:14 -!- tali713 [~tali713@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:16:53 I have a config file with lisp forms and some of the symbols are the names of the identifiers are names of functions in my code; sometimes the identifiers are strings sometimes just symbols and other times :keyword symbols; what is the best way to ignore the precise representation of the identifier? Right now I'm thinking this. 04:17:02 (defun fuzzy-bound (sym) (fboundp (intern (string sym)))) 04:18:08 (let ((*package* ...)) ..read the file..) 04:18:16 Not if they're strings. 04:18:25 WarWeasle [~Kaltara@172.242.21.170] has joined #lisp 04:18:33 I'd use an explicit package to intern those configuration variables thought. 04:18:47 tali713 [~tali713@2001:0:53aa:64c:32:562a:b3ee:137e] has joined #lisp 04:19:13 I see. 04:19:14 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 04:20:01 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@67-1-96-199.tcso.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:20:42 so are you saying that if you have (defun foo ...) in your program, that foo, "foo", and :foo, should all resolve to the same symbol as that defun? 04:20:50 TDog [~chatzilla@67-1-96-199.tcso.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:20:53 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@ssl-air2.ssl.berkeley.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:20:54 -!- bcoburn [~nialo@ool-18bc9419.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:21:39 No, "FOO", not "foo". 04:22:00 which is why I'm asking 04:22:15 White_Flame, yes. 04:22:20 Otherwise he would have written string-upcase instead of string. 04:22:32 My mistake. 04:22:34 right, you need to watch the case of strings 04:22:40 Personally, I'd rather have immutable strings, and remove the distinction with symbols. :) 04:23:06 Zhivago: indeed. Let's write the immutable string |Hello|. 04:23:35 Or "Hello". :) 04:23:48 that would need to be quoted, whereas strings self-evaluate 04:24:07 ("defun" "foo" ("x") ("if" ("stringp" "x") (print "x") (print "x"))) 04:24:08 nice. 04:24:14 -!- zxq9 [~ceverett@FL9-125-199-207-150.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:24:50 White_Flame: no, better let the compiler guess which "x" is the symbol, and which is the literal string. It's more fun like that. 04:25:06 If there is no distinction, there is no distinction. 04:26:08 (print '"x") to print the literal, vs (print "x") to print the value of variable x 04:26:17 So, no need for guessing, and you can just write (defun foo (x) (if (stringp x) (print "yes") (print "no"))) or (print 'yes) or (print |yes|) as you please. 04:26:43 " is a form of quoting, so no need for that, either. 04:26:48 Again, just forget strings. 04:27:01 Yes -- use symbols instead. 04:27:09 (if (symbolp x) (print 'yes) (print 'no)) 04:27:30 I've personally been looking at options for lazy flyweighting of strings & lists in my application 04:27:32 There you go, and have "yes" be another way to write 'yes. 04:27:43 as it can get expensive to say "intern every single list every time" 04:27:50 -!- dotemacs [uid801@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-neupohsmshxlujat] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:27:51 s/list/string/ 04:28:09 If they're immutable, you don't need to intern. 04:28:20 -!- ggherdov [sid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mesncqbcffsqaomb] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:28:21 So interning can become an optional optimization. 04:28:30 comparisons are much cheaper if they're flyweighted, and that's a real speed issue for u 04:28:31 s 04:28:38 Zhivago: Say that to the implementation. 04:28:38 zajn [~zajn@airbears2-136-152-142-10.AirBears2.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 04:28:45 I do. 04:29:46 dotemacs [uid801@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hawfplpopspehfbp] has joined #lisp 04:29:57 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@67-1-96-199.tcso.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:30:25 cmpitg [~cmpitg@1.55.0.159] has joined #lisp 04:30:25 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@1.55.0.159] has quit [Changing host] 04:30:26 cmpitg [~cmpitg@unaffiliated/cmpitg] has joined #lisp 04:33:57 zxq9 [~ceverett@FL9-125-199-207-150.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 04:36:29 -!- MoALTz [~no@host81-153-177-174.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:37:15 nichtdiebohne [~nichtdieb@kons-4d03fdc2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 04:38:54 -!- WarWeasle [~Kaltara@172.242.21.170] has quit [Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )] 04:39:04 ggherdov [sid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lpzstnjzjybwvrbb] has joined #lisp 04:45:31 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:46:52 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@222.91.106.37] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:49:18 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@2620:0:1cfe:18:7961:f08b:854f:c264] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:50:02 vkrest [~vkrest@2620:0:1cfe:18:7961:f08b:854f:c264] has joined #lisp 04:51:32 -!- vsync_ [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 04:51:33 -!- zajn [~zajn@airbears2-136-152-142-10.AirBears2.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Quit: zajn] 04:51:42 -!- nisstyre [~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:51:42 vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:51:56 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@2620:0:1cfe:18:7961:f08b:854f:c264] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:53:59 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:56:42 -!- dfox [~dfox@94.142.237.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:56:51 -!- mhd [~mhd@cpe-76-170-71-237.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 04:58:15 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 05:03:56 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:07:46 slarti [~anonymous@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has joined #lisp 05:10:16 -!- bassclide [~bassclide@118.129.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:11:53 zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has joined #lisp 05:13:55 -!- jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 05:15:37 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.11.204] has quit [Quit: Bye..] 05:15:50 oxum [~oxum@122.164.11.204] has joined #lisp 05:17:05 ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 05:17:28 KDr2 [~KDr2@61.150.16.48] has joined #lisp 05:18:22 -!- QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Iceape 2.7.12/20130119143918]] 05:19:12 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@61.150.16.48] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 05:21:14 How often do you guys use lambda expressions while coding? (You may sort your answers by language.) 05:21:38 bicgena: All the time? 05:22:17 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:22:44 KDr2 [~KDr2@61.150.16.48] has joined #lisp 05:23:22 I try to avoid anonymous functions, these days. 05:23:54 -!- jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-50-148-124-212.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:24:42 bassclide [~bassclide@118.129.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 05:24:50 I used one this afternoon/evening. I don't so much try to avoid them as find that my current coding style doesn't lead to creating them all that often. 05:25:14 Zhivago: why? 05:25:35 Well, it's like inlining a function. 05:25:41 -!- antonv [~user@93.171.161.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:26:29 jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-50-148-124-212.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:27:01 Occasionally it is useful, but otherwise it explodes the call-site and makes it harder to see the intent at a glance. 05:27:06 seeing as lots of my code involves mapc loops, I'd have to say "all the time" as well 05:27:45 Mmm. The one I used today was in a MAPCAN. 05:28:26 And that was to supply a leading parameter and spread the argument to pass to another function. 05:28:40 but I also do a lot of frameworks and heavily dynamically defined programming, so lambdas are thrown around everywhere. 05:29:04 Think about why those functions are anonymous. 05:29:30 Being anonymous is orthogonal to having lexical closure. 05:29:50 if I want to name them, defining them in labels blocks usually gives them named presence on error reports 05:30:10 In which case they're not lambdas anymore. 05:30:15 right 05:30:22 And that's part of what we're talking about. 05:30:27 I usually use FLET for that, but when I do that it's typically in a macro. 05:30:36 but on many error report with lambdas, it can report which function that named lambda came from 05:31:20 I don't think I have too many functions which actually throw around more than 1 lambdas 05:31:23 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:31:57 hook registrations, listener initializations, assembling transformative continuations, etc 05:32:18 threaded pipeline chaining by passing in a list of lambdas 05:32:27 all of them have readable context in the place where the lambda is defined 05:33:53 MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:37:55 I will say that I'm very hesitant to create long lambda bodies. I agree that makes things more unreadable. I tend to break out functionality into a function, keeping the closure-specific bits in the lambda body itself 05:38:27 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 05:38:50 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:39:00 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 05:39:13 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.15.142.21] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:39:31 QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:43:36 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:44:37 bishu [~bishudas@76.178.144.102] has joined #lisp 05:44:41 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 05:47:14 I scheme, you have to use lambda almost everywhere once you use `define :) 05:49:13 gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-63-249.dyn.bashtel.ru] has joined #lisp 05:49:18 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:50:19 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:50:23 -!- slarti [~anonymous@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:53:12 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-145-64.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 05:53:30 -!- Pullphinger [~Pullphing@c-24-13-69-42.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [] 05:53:44 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:54:54 ggole [~ggole@106-68-174-13.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:55:23 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 05:58:18 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:59:25 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 06:00:28 n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:e143:182f:62f:4ac3] has joined #lisp 06:01:03 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:03:27 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 06:04:28 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:05:35 sdemarre [~serge@216.64-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 06:05:56 -!- jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-50-148-124-212.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:08:30 -!- ltbarcly_ [~textual@216.113.168.148] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 06:09:45 jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-50-148-124-212.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:10:30 -!- Watcher7 [~w@108.216.22.50] has quit [Quit: h] 06:13:56 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:14:39 -!- MightyJoe is now known as cyraxjoe 06:14:43 -!- nichtdiebohne [~nichtdieb@kons-4d03fdc2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - 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if only for playing around ... 07:34:11 and if statistics show that in 2 years a lot of new things are using CL21, then that's a nice data point, too. 07:36:56 what's available on cl21.org seems rather thin, in particular as it is titled "redesign" 07:37:39 -!- Guest83278 [~kdas@dynamic-192.121.142.202.sitibroadband.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:38:06 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:38:41 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.16.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:40:37 DataLinkD2 [~DataLinkD@120.158.117.182] has joined #lisp 07:42:40 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:42:54 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.161.55.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:44:44 H4ns: https://github.com/fukamachi/cl21 has a bit more. 07:45:33 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 07:45:55 It seems to be light on specification. I'm not a big fan of spec by implementation. 07:46:22 i'm not opposed to new lisp dialects, but a redesign of common lisp is something that can't be achieved by slamming together a bunch of ill-defined libraries 07:47:42 when is see stuff like string interpolation, i think "convenient" but at the same time, i wonder where all the edge cases will be documented. if i think "common lisp", i imagine that for any question that i may have, there is the spec to look up how things are meant to work. 07:47:59 doomlord_ [~servitor@host109-151-65-32.range109-151.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 07:48:56 H4ns: indeed. 07:49:10 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-vdsvkfrmholsxupd] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:50:40 otoh, to be fair, the CDR approach didn't get much traction either. 07:51:59 the cl spec is both a blessing and a curse. the high standards make it unlikely that the cl community will ever be satisfied with anything that claims to be improving common lisp. 07:52:03 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:52:31 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:52:39 vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has joined #lisp 07:52:41 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-63-249.dyn.bashtel.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:52:43 Is that really a bad thing? 07:53:12 i think what's left are high-quality libraries and implementations. why bother claiming that "common lisp" can be improved, if it is really not possible? 07:53:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:53:34 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@178.74.77.127] has joined #lisp 07:53:42 Shinmera: it is in the sense that the spec does not consider a lot of things that are important nowadays, and has a lot of baggage that is not relevant anymore 07:53:55 Shinmera: let me say "pathnames" or "symbol plists" 07:54:14 H4ns: not convinced. The Ada spec is of similar quality and has found a way to be continually updated. It may just be a case of there not being enough money in the CL market to fund such an endeavour. 07:54:19 H4ns: True, I meant more that people simply not settling for less isn't really a bad thing. 07:55:00 mal___: right. there is not enough money in the market, that is what it boils down to and quite frankly, i can't see the kind of market that would be needed to be developing. 07:56:03 Shinmera: efforts like cl21, how ever well-meaning they are, don't get much traction and consequently, the people who invest in such efforts often become frustrated and turn to something else. 07:56:18 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.222] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:56:25 Shinmera: it is hard to make a lasting impression in a world where the principles are set in stone 07:57:15 Shinmera: in that regard, the cl community is a cult, and that is a turn-off for young people who think that they are great programmers and want to be influential at that. 07:57:32 H4ns: Sure enough. Still, I'm content with high standards and would rather not have something half-baked declared as the standard than nothing at all. 07:57:36 (to some extent, ymmv etc) 07:58:18 I guess I fit into CL as a young person because I don't think of myself as a great programmer, heh. 07:59:35 -!- Fare [~fare@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:59:43 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:03:10 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.16.106] has joined #lisp 08:04:41 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-201-173.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:05:06 -!- _d3f [~gnu@vm5.rout0r.org] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 08:05:23 Davidbrcz [~david@140.142.25.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 08:07:30 Abby24 [~Abby24@79.141.167.28] has joined #lisp 08:07:32 I give you some pictures. I hope you like! http://bit.do/my_videos69 08:07:36 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:08:20 -!- Abby24 [~Abby24@79.141.167.28] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:10:50 _d3f [~gnu@vm5.rout0r.org] has joined #lisp 08:12:17 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-ibrgisbwncyjrlfz] has joined #lisp 08:15:11 arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-cxuzakltzdodlfrx] has joined #lisp 08:15:29 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@140.142.25.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:19:18 -!- twixonz [~Thunderbi@213-21-93-144.customer.t3.se] has quit [Quit: twixonz] 08:25:19 alezost [~user@128-70-201-173.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 08:26:36 -!- kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has quit [] 08:27:50 ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.95] has joined #lisp 08:29:17 -!- prxq_ is now known as prxq 08:30:57 harish [~harish@175.156.245.20] has joined #lisp 08:34:46 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-ibrgisbwncyjrlfz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:36:26 amaron [~amaron@cable-178-148-241-98.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 08:42:14 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:44:32 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 242 seconds] 08:45:01 shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-gckwaycxgzlnwbjo] has joined #lisp 08:48:20 -!- sohail_ [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:52:17 jtza8 [~jtza8@105.237.80.164] has joined #lisp 08:53:02 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 08:56:00 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:57:54 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 09:00:06 -!- _d3f [~gnu@vm5.rout0r.org] has quit [Quit: brb] 09:05:47 stepnem [~stepnem@77.78.117.8] has joined #lisp 09:06:13 _d3f [~gnu@vm5.rout0r.org] has joined #lisp 09:08:52 sirdancealot [~koo5@194.228.11.172] has joined #lisp 09:11:20 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.161.55.88] has joined #lisp 09:12:18 -!- nug700 [~nug700@184-98-219-15.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 09:13:54 -!- ConstantineXVI [sxltrs@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:feae:8909] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:14:08 -!- DataLinkD2 [~DataLinkD@120.158.117.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:14:34 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-149-119.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:14:47 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.93.183] has left #lisp 09:16:52 ConstantineXVI [sxltrs@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:feae:8909] has joined #lisp 09:25:57 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:26:51 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:27:19 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:28:24 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:e143:182f:62f:4ac3] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:31:26 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:31:36 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-184-105.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:32:07 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 09:38:45 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-88-77.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:39:51 vaporatorius [~vaporator@220.Red-79-151-13.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:43:22 -!- gluegadget_ is now known as gluegadget 09:43:29 -!- gluegadget [sid22336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kfzmdorqurqsmjoa] has quit [Changing host] 09:43:29 gluegadget [sid22336@unaffiliated/gluegadget] has joined #lisp 09:43:29 -!- gluegadget [sid22336@unaffiliated/gluegadget] has quit [Changing host] 09:43:29 gluegadget [sid22336@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-kfzmdorqurqsmjoa] has joined #lisp 09:46:32 X-Scale [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 09:47:14 -!- munge` is now known as munge 09:48:55 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Quit: i will be back...nvm] 09:49:44 -!- munge [~user@cpe-075-178-033-080.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:50:03 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 09:50:17 munge [~user@cpe-075-178-033-080.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:53:24 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:54:43 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 09:55:47 -!- ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:55:52 Is there any sane way to make GET work with functions? 09:56:14 ehu [~ehu@62.140.132.95] has joined #lisp 09:56:57 The question may not be very accurate, I apologize if so. 09:58:00 what do you want to do? 09:59:28 GET? 10:00:55 Well, I want to mark certain functions and avoid using one more variable that will just store names of "marked" functions (that's what I used to do before). Instead, I want to do something like (setf (get 'foo 'marked?) t) but (get #'foo 'bar) doesn't seem do work for obvious reasons. 10:01:21 What is the correct way of doing this? 10:02:45 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:05:15 minion: getf 10:05:16 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``getf''. 10:05:17 minion: get 10:05:17 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``get''. 10:05:24 minion: property list 10:05:25 you speak nonsense 10:05:31 clhs get 10:05:31 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_get.htm 10:06:13 That thing has nothing to do with p-lists. 10:07:18 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.253.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:07:24 "get finds a property on the property list[2] of symbol" ... 10:07:52 jewel [~jewel@105-237-57-213.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:08:06 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.16.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:08:46 I meant (:lists like :this one). I don't think that's how they are represented for symbols. 10:10:45 Never mind. Looks like I was wrong. 10:11:23 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.16.106] has joined #lisp 10:14:03 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@156-145.192-178.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 10:16:56 -!- zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has quit [Quit: zajn] 10:17:42 -!- Anarch [~olaf@c-67-183-64-49.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:17:50 Anarch [~olaf@c-67-183-64-49.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:22:46 -!- Anarch [~olaf@c-67-183-64-49.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:25:45 Stygia [~gmpsaifi@193.104.83.223] has joined #lisp 10:27:34 -!- naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 10:27:54 naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has joined #lisp 10:35:23 dbushenko [~dim@178.124.206.174] has joined #lisp 10:35:29 -!- dbushenko [~dim@178.124.206.174] has left #lisp 10:42:04 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.11.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:44:26 yangfinder [~yang@49.69.189.133] has joined #lisp 10:44:43 hitecnologys: 'foo is still a function designator for #'foo 10:44:43 you could use the symbol p-list on 'foo, and by passing 'foo around instead of #'foo, access its property list 10:46:02 mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.40] has joined #lisp 10:46:16 oxum [~oxum@122.164.249.199] has joined #lisp 10:46:25 Well, 'foo will only designate the function in the dynamic rather than lexical environment. 10:47:11 or global, if you prefer. 10:47:16 White_Flame: of course I can do that but I prefer passing #'foo instead of 'foo because this way I always know that I pass function just by looking at it. 10:47:39 hitecnologys: you can't store anything on a function, so you're stuck with external variables 10:47:49 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 10:48:05 be it the existing symbol plist, or something separate you construct 10:48:28 Zhivago: the spec prefers "global environment" there 10:48:42 nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has joined #lisp 10:49:16 hitech: You might consider a funcallable, but what problem are you trying to solve? 10:51:54 Well, the problem is not that important. I have a macro for defining functions that may be forked to separate thread (macro wraps body with necessary stuff in order to make thread easily stoppable) and I want to make sure functions that aren't defined using this macro won't be forked without warning. 10:52:20 ejbs [~user@h87-96-182-73.dynamic.se.alltele.net] has joined #lisp 10:53:21 I'd say you should be passing in keys, not raw functions 10:53:37 and that, coincidentally, could easily be the symbol which names the function 10:53:49 Why not wrap those functions in a function that returns a values containing a descriptor and the function such that the fork accepts them? 10:54:45 daimrod [daimrod@sbrk.org] has joined #lisp 10:54:57 Then (fork #'foo) will work just fine. If you also want (foo ...) to work, you could have that wrapper check a dynamic variable and call its inner function directly when not invoked by fork. 10:55:09 But it seems like a lot of trouble to go do. 10:55:37 White_Flame: I said previously I want to avoid having one more global variable. 10:55:48 that's not an extra global variable 10:56:02 (defun foo () ...) creates the symbol 'foo 10:56:11 and sets its symbol-function 10:56:17 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:56:31 Well, 'foo and #'foo can be two different things in the same context. 10:56:39 are you ever going to be calling these functions except by this thread launcher tool? 10:56:39 Zhivago: sounds like a good idea. 10:56:42 You could also set up fork as a generic function specialized on each function that is forkable. 10:56:43 perhaps pandoric-let et al? http://letoverlambda.com/index.cl/guest/chap6.html#sec_7 10:57:12 White_Flame: probably, yes. 10:57:39 I think that I'd go for the generic-function approach. 10:58:00 Hmm. 10:58:41 Sounds good, I think I'll use that approach. 10:59:32 what do you want to happen if a non-registered function is passed in? do you want to ensure you fail before that wrong function is executed? 10:59:44 Aha. 11:00:05 I don't want unstoppable threads flying around. 11:00:39 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:00:46 well, the idea of having a values return would involve calling the function synchronously in the launcher mechanism 11:01:09 but the function passed in would still need to be called 11:03:35 Fortunately the gf approach would avoid calling the function if it were not a specializer for a method. 11:03:59 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.122.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:04:05 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-237-57-213.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:04:37 jewel [~jewel@105-237-57-213.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:05:39 theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.122.2] has joined #lisp 11:05:59 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #lisp 11:06:31 right. Not sure how much that goes into the "another global" view 11:07:21 -!- ejbs [~user@h87-96-182-73.dynamic.se.alltele.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:08:15 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 11:08:59 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@61.150.16.48] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:09:48 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 11:10:02 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 11:10:13 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.98.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:12:08 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 11:15:34 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:17:55 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.16.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:18:50 -!- epsylon [~epsylon@abbaye.thele.me] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:18:50 -!- Neptu [~Neptu@252.67.24.31.static.mrfriday.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:19:35 -!- sirdancealot [~koo5@194.228.11.172] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:20:01 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:20:05 sirdancealot [~koo5@194.228.11.172] has joined #lisp 11:20:29 -!- cods [~cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:21:02 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:21:03 -!- ski [~ski@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:23:18 epsylon [~epsylon@abbaye.thele.me] has joined #lisp 11:24:10 Neptu [~Neptu@252.67.24.31.static.mrfriday.com] has joined #lisp 11:24:32 ski_ [~ski@remote1.student.chalmers.se] has joined #lisp 11:25:23 -!- ski_ is now known as ski 11:26:33 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 11:27:18 cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has joined #lisp 11:28:04 -!- yangfinder [~yang@49.69.189.133] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:28:33 yangfinder [~yang@49.69.189.133] has joined #lisp 11:29:39 -!- yangfinder [~yang@49.69.189.133] has quit [Client Quit] 11:30:19 KDr2 [~KDr2@117.36.49.153] has joined #lisp 11:32:18 jlkjljlkjlkj [54400f67@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.64.15.103] has joined #lisp 11:37:50 yangfinder [~yang@49.69.189.133] has joined #lisp 11:39:11 -!- AeroNotix [~AeroNotix@37.139.18.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:39:27 AeroNotix [~AeroNotix@37.139.18.183] has joined #lisp 11:39:46 -!- BlackWabi [~wabi@c83-191-78-163.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:39:51 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:40:07 -!- vnz [~vnz@unaffiliated/vnz] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 11:42:22 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:42:59 vnz [~vnz@unaffiliated/vnz] has joined #lisp 11:44:06 KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9C0C2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:46:37 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 11:47:11 -!- vnz [~vnz@unaffiliated/vnz] has quit [Client Quit] 11:48:01 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.16.106] has joined #lisp 11:49:41 vnz [~vnz@server.ot.mk] has joined #lisp 11:49:42 -!- vnz [~vnz@server.ot.mk] has quit [Changing host] 11:49:42 vnz [~vnz@unaffiliated/vnz] has joined #lisp 11:51:58 add^_ [~user@m213-101-23-176.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 11:54:38 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9C0C2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:55:15 Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-228-63-82.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:55:15 -!- karswell` [~user@84.93.180.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:56:03 -!- jlkjljlkjlkj [54400f67@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.64.15.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:58:35 Joreji [~thomas@136-135.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 12:03:32 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-136-77.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:07:08 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-40-127.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 12:08:12 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 12:16:06 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.16.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:16:09 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 12:19:16 I think I've just signed up for ELS 2014. 12:19:24 -!- yacks [~py@122.179.37.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:21:36 -!- ggole [~ggole@106-68-174-13.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:22:49 ggole [~ggole@106.68.174.13] has joined #lisp 12:23:17 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-228-63-82.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:23:35 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.16.106] has joined #lisp 12:23:43 -!- tensorpudding is now known as tensorpud 12:24:55 Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-228-63-82.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:27:46 I only heard about it 23 times. 12:29:20 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 12:30:12 v0|d [~evrim@176.240.250.38] has joined #lisp 12:30:51 hi. 12:31:24 it would be slick if people used the same message-id across all those different lists 12:32:02 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-228-63-82.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:32:55 songshuang [songshuang@115.206.131.172] has joined #lisp 12:34:01 -!- tensorpud [~tensorpud@108.87.16.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:34:11 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:34:27 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:34:35 -!- songshuang [songshuang@115.206.131.172] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:36:30 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:41:25 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:41:59 przl_ [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 12:42:07 -!- przl_ [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Client Quit] 12:46:18 -!- Joreji [~thomas@136-135.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:49:17 karswell [~user@84.93.180.60] has joined #lisp 12:51:22 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 12:52:30 -!- vnz [~vnz@unaffiliated/vnz] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 12:53:42 vnz [~vnz@unaffiliated/vnz] has joined #lisp 12:54:32 Denommus [~AndChat67@200-141-22-85.user3g.veloxzone.com.br] has joined #lisp 12:54:32 -!- Denommus [~AndChat67@200-141-22-85.user3g.veloxzone.com.br] has quit [Changing host] 12:54:32 Denommus [~AndChat67@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 12:59:20 KaiQ [~localhost@wlan249214.rz.uni-leipzig.de] has joined #lisp 13:01:31 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:08:15 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:08:26 r0b1 [~robert@subtle/contributor/robgleeson] has joined #lisp 13:09:40 elfenixtorres [~vantage@d5152EDDB.static.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 13:10:48 Anarch [~olaf@c-73-53-44-165.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:11:43 BlackWabi [~wabi@c83-191-78-163.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 13:15:16 and imagine if they used their canonical name where anonymity is hopeless/pointless...! :) 13:18:25 anyone tried cl21? https://github.com/fukamachi/cl21 13:19:02 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.249.199] has quit [Quit: ...] 13:19:49 antonv [~user@93.171.161.176] has joined #lisp 13:19:54 -!- Sgeo [~quassel@ool-44c2df0c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:20:03 optikalmouse: there's been some discussion here, about 10 hours before. look at the archives for details. 13:20:12 flip214: awesome thx 13:20:55 It wasn't very constructive discussion. 13:20:56 mmmm sweet sweet irc logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/lisp/14.02.10 13:21:33 Zhivago: right. basically, we complained endlessly about how cl21 is pointless :) 13:22:16 I disagreed. 13:22:37 i like including hash table literals 13:22:50 It's probably doomed, but cl needs forward motion if it wants to prosper. 13:24:22 i think that rich hickey's way is the right way to make lisp prosper 13:25:17 rather than trying to lean on cl, attracting all the snarky comments from the common lispers, who lean qualities no other lisp can achieve, people should create better alternative lisps 13:26:15 Yes. 13:26:41 And in doing so, work out what qualities are actually worthwhile. 13:28:31 aren't hash table literals just read macros? 13:28:59 yeah 13:29:01 ecraven: they can be implemented by read macros 13:29:18 Probably, but it's the convention that is important. 13:29:50 Zhivago: the convention of which exact syntax to use? 13:30:01 any superset of cl is doomed. real progress means subsetting cl. 13:30:11 How are SBCL's BigInt implemented? Bindings over GMP or something new? 13:31:16 something in between Scheme and CL would be nice to have :-/ 13:31:21 ecraven: It's important for readability and adoption. 13:31:40 Zhivago: I totally agree :) 13:31:45 You may be thinking of bignum, and no -- they're native. 13:31:58 I think the most in-between Lisp at the moment is Clojure, but my opinion isn't really popular 13:32:01 atgreen [~green@dsl-207-112-126-211.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 13:32:05 what we need is not CL to move forward, but a sw environment flexible enough where we can incorporate CL and C/java/all-that-shit code into the same runtime and interoperability is dealt with using algorithms. 13:32:14 Zhivago: I imagined 13:32:34 -!- mal___ [mal@2001:41d0:1:66c4::1] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:33:13 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 13:33:23 and of course the main point of that environment would be to accommodate for everyone's little language experiments where interoperability is much less hassle than what we call FFI today 13:33:43 attila: Sounds like javascript to the rescue. :) 13:33:46 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 13:34:17 *Zhivago* tries to think of a language that doesn't compile to javascript ... 13:34:31 i designed a lisp that features only functions and no macros or special forms 13:34:47 -!- yangfinder [~yang@49.69.189.133] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:34:49 but its not usable yet and i doubt if it will be ever really useful nowadays 13:35:00 code: So, no defun? 13:35:01 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 13:35:02 Zhivago: LLVM, please 13:35:15 LLVM has a javascript target, iirc. 13:35:35 Zhivago: still unstable 13:35:42 we need not a language that is special, but an implementation that is specially crafted. of course it must support one lambda calculus level language with all the optimization and stuff to abstract away the CPU, but js is not that... 13:36:06 would be in my lang (define 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[Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:41:58 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 16:42:12 Can someone point me to an example of a (setf slot-value-using-class) that modifies the new value before storing it in the slot? I'm not sure what the best way is to go about this. 16:42:54 enn: just create a :before method for the accessor! 16:43:04 That's not an option here. 16:43:11 uh, why? 16:43:47 This needs to apply to all slots of all classes (a few dozen) with a certain metaclass. 16:47:48 -!- jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 16:52:17 -!- arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-cxuzakltzdodlfrx] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:52:22 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:56 enn: ah, I don't know much about MOP, sorry 16:54:01 KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9C0C2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:59:30 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:00:21 -!- nialo` [~bcoburn@bcoburn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:00:41 -!- staykov [~wiggin@cable.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:02:33 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:19 -!- Fare [~fare@cpe-72-229-109-116.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:05:31 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.132.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:05:43 -!- jaccas [~pjfcl@188.250.194.100] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 17:07:15 nialo` [~bcoburn@bcoburn.com] has joined #lisp 17:07:44 staykov [~wiggin@cable.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 17:14:07 Davidbrcz [~david@140.142.25.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:45 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:07 theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has joined #lisp 17:17:56 drl [~lat@125.167.128.251] has joined #lisp 17:18:36 -!- cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:18:38 i read an interview of CL gurus...i wasn't amazed that many need to use other languages in their work...php, javascript, etc........What was amazing was how many wrote DSLs to crank out a lot of code in those other languages! isn't that awesome! sneaking common lisp into the web shop! 17:18:39 theseb, memo from pjb: but viaweb was written in _clisp_, while ITA uses sbcl and C++. 17:18:39 theseb, memo from pjb: so if clisp is good enough to make millions, who needs sbcl, but the greedy who wants billions? :-) 17:19:01 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-178-148-241-98.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:20:26 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 17:23:50 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:27:22 -!- hugoduncan is now known as hugod 17:28:29 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 17:29:47 -!- Stygia [~gmpsaifi@193.104.83.223] has quit [Quit: Time to sit in a bus for an hour] 17:29:51 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@140.142.25.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:30:53 -!- shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-gckwaycxgzlnwbjo] has quit [Quit: shridhar] 17:34:09 jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:15 -!- add^_ [~user@m213-101-23-176.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37:46 -!- vibs29 [~lisper@host86-130-161-248.range86-130.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:41:40 a13x15 [~a13x15@104.Red-83-57-110.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:53 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:45:27 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:49:26 -!- sohail_ [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:49:43 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.41.243] has joined #lisp 17:49:46 MmeRobert [~cedric@ALille-257-1-144-36.w86-208.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:51:32 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-40-127.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 17:56:44 -!- nydel [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-sakpooodwtjufnag] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:57:29 nydel [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-kyityywyfghtsleu] has joined #lisp 17:57:34 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-40-127.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:58:05 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:58:12 kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 17:58:15 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 17:59:43 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:59:59 aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 18:01:08 -!- genericus [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has left #lisp 18:01:45 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 18:02:15 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:48 -!- gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:05:41 gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:06:05 genericus [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:06:21 rvchangue_ [~rvchangue@cpe-024-074-007-207.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:06:21 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:06:29 -!- rvchangue_ is now known as rvchangue 18:06:31 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@cpe-024-074-007-207.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 18:06:31 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 18:06:57 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@unaffiliated/cmpitg] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:13:06 bobbysmith007 [~russ@firewall-dcd1.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:11 -!- aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:17:44 jlongster [~user@pool-173-53-114-190.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:22:35 zophy [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:11 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-225-78-208.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:23:49 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 18:24:11 -!- theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has left #lisp 18:24:20 Harag [~Thunderbi@105.225.78.208] has joined #lisp 18:27:38 -!- milosn [~milosn@94.12.79.143] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 18:27:43 milosn_ [~milosn@94.12.79.143] has joined #lisp 18:27:56 jangle [~jimmy1984@50.241.129.73] has joined #lisp 18:28:53 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:34:01 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-201-173.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:35:16 greetings all, I'm on mac using ccl and slime. I'm trying to make use of cl ffi packages that rely on system libraries that I've installed using macports. It doesn't seem like my emacs environment is taking the path environment variable from the same place that my shell is getting it from (sorry if this doesn't make sense), since when I use asdf:run-shell-command on a program found in the macports install directory I don't get any ouput, but I do when I'm 18:35:16 jangle, memo from pjb: you could use the lsof command to see what file descriptor (library, socket, etc) is open in the wish process, and find out whether it's connected with the right processes. 18:35:17 the shell. I want to make sure I do this right. Do I need to add something to my .emacs to append the macports bin directory, in order to allow for the cl packages to locate the libraries properly? I also get the feeling that each such package uses a different method of locating the system library, and, for example, the gsll library is using a gsl-config tool (provided by the system library macports package) to do this location. if each such cl package is 18:35:17 different, what is the right answer here? 18:35:29 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:36:11 vibs29 [~lisper@217.39.3.63] has joined #lisp 18:36:24 cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has joined #lisp 18:38:18 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:38:29 -!- milosn_ [~milosn@94.12.79.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:39:13 Twipply [~Twipply3@cpc17-mapp10-2-0-cust179.12-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:17 ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 18:39:46 -!- vaporatorius is now known as Vaporatorius 18:40:20 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.135] has quit [Client Quit] 18:42:04 jangle: have you looked to see how the libs your using are defining those libraries? 18:42:24 cffi has a search path option in define-foreign-libraries or it can use the system search path, for example 18:44:06 mhd [~mhd@cpe-76-170-71-237.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:46:52 mordocai [mordocai@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe70:b749] has joined #lisp 18:47:19 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@dyn-129-97-41-194.dynamic.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: fisxoj] 18:47:24 fortitude: I know in the case of gsll it is using a gsl distributed tool to locate the lib. I don't know in general what is going on, but I just found that on osx, when I run emacs by clicking on the app bundle, the env variable is some default, but when I invoke it from a terminal it gets the full env I'm expecting. 18:48:18 and I guess its not insane to expect that if I want to use macports delivered libraries for use with cl ffi packages, that I'll need to pass the modified path through to emacs/slime/cl so that the initialization steps of those packages are able to locate the libraries where I've installed them 18:49:22 the environment in emacs and the environment in your lisp implementation may or may not have anything to do with each other 18:49:33 mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.225] has joined #lisp 18:49:47 but your best bet is to read the source of the relevant libs and see how they're expecting to find libraries 18:50:31 LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 18:50:47 milosn [~milosn@94.12.79.143] has joined #lisp 18:51:14 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 18:52:28 fortitude: ok, that makes sense. I think I have my answer for gsll at least, and looking back, this problem may explain other problems I've been having trying to make use of macports-delivered libraries 18:53:19 alezost [~user@128-70-201-173.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 18:56:38 aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 18:56:47 -!- Watcher7 [~w@108.216.22.50] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:56:58 puchacz_ [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:57:29 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@128.120.119.178] has joined #lisp 18:58:22 hi, I want to write a macro: 18:58:34 (defmacro emit-quoted-stuff-wrong! (stuff) 'stuff) 18:58:46 <_death> `(quote ,stuff) 18:58:54 my intention is that if I macroexpand (emit-quoted-stuff a), I get (quote a) 18:59:04 _death, thanks, of course 18:59:25 <_death> if you want it more cryptic, `',stuff 18:59:25 Or `',stuff. 18:59:51 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 19:00:18 I got initial one immediately, the second one, I feel confused 19:00:24 KarlDscc [~localhost@p5DD9C245.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:01:28 I prefer the initial one 19:01:33 though they mean the same 19:01:47 -!- nisstyre [~yourstrul@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:02:02 Best bit of syntactic horribleness I've got handy is `(... #',#'function-name ...) 19:02:15 oh 19:02:37 I dislike funciton-value and its shortcut # altogether 19:03:12 I prefer to rely on the fact that all higher level function accept lambda expressions (for unnamed functions) and symbols (for named functions) 19:03:19 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:03:29 The first #' there is data, the second is for obtaining a literal function reference. 19:04:17 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9C0C2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:04:25 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:06:05 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 19:06:31 Joreji [~thomas@136-135.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 19:07:18 nyef: best syntactic horribleness: (let (#'1) (+ 1 function)) 19:08:12 jasom: (apply #'+ '#'1) 19:08:54 nichtdiebohne [~nichtdieb@kons-4d03fdc2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:07 nyef: (let (#'1) (+ . #'1)) 19:09:24 Yes, there you go. That's what I was having trouble coming up with. 19:10:25 And, better, you can use variable names instead of literal values there. 19:10:32 <_death> (+ (cadr #1='#'1) (cadr #1#)) 19:10:33 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:48 -!- nichtdiebohne [~nichtdieb@kons-4d03fdc2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:11:36 <_death> or (+ #1=(cadr '#'1) #1#) 19:11:55 nichtdiebohne [~nichtdieb@kons-4d03fdc2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:43 There are fun options available if you start using #.` forms. 19:13:09 antonv [~user@93.171.161.176] has joined #lisp 19:13:33 Watcher7 [~w@108.218.1.128] has joined #lisp 19:14:57 (cadadr '#'#'3) 19:15:48 <_death> (apply #'coerce (reverse '#'1+)) 19:16:01 billstclair [~billstcla@p-68-237-141-68.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 19:16:01 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-68-237-141-68.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:16:01 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 19:16:36 _death: I like it 19:16:59 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 19:17:54 #.(subst '1+ 'function '#'#'#'3) 19:18:08 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105.237.80.164] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:19:49 przl [~przlrkt@p5792214B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:20:27 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5792214B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:20:37 przl [~przlrkt@p5792214B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:20:37 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5792214B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:21:03 therik [~therik@109.110.247.39] has joined #lisp 19:21:06 klltkr_ [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 19:21:30 I got shift im hemlock working. 19:21:37 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@181.30.10.50] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 19:22:12 for CLX, that is - QT and console did already work, IIRC. 19:22:48 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:06 jtza8 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[~thomas@136-135.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:52:41 francogrex [~user@91.179.199.159] has joined #lisp 20:54:14 am trying to get maxima to work within mcclim/clim dedicated frame, but my problem is it does not eval for a form of :lisp (+ 1 1) for example....but evaling is done as soon as i prepend something afront of it like :lisp +(+ 1 1) or even :lisp +(car '(a b c d)) .... 20:54:42 normal forms are evaled ok, like 1+1; -> 2 20:54:56 only lisp forms are somehow not evalling.... 20:57:11 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 20:57:28 sellout- [~Adium@66.185.108.211] has joined #lisp 21:05:53 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:06:37 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:14 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:11:13 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 21:16:14 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 21:16:31 -!- sdemarre [~serge@216.64-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:17:56 -!- puchacz_ [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:19:37 oO 21:19:55 -!- atgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-ecwpoqkefvodexgx] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:20:11 -!- heddwch [~yoshi@76.8.3.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:23:17 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:24:05 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:38 solved 21:25:07 ck`` [~ck@aftr-37-24-144-181.unity-media.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:51 clintm [~clintm@174-24-213-148.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:35 http://paste.lisp.org/display/141210 21:28:45 heddwch [~yoshi@76.8.3.189] has joined #lisp 21:28:52 Yoona- [~other@188.162.65.64] has joined #lisp 21:28:57 hi 21:29:26 helloo 21:30:51 is it possible to replace (loop for i from 0 to 99 append (loop for j from 0 to 10 collect (+ i j))) win only one loop? Note that (+ i j) completely fictional 21:32:21 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:32:27 -!- ktx [~ktx@unaffiliated/ktx] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:32:32 -!- klltkr_ [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 21:32:34 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 21:32:57 davazp [~user@77.Red-88-23-190.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:06 Yoona-: it's not trivially replacable with one loop, but if you use nconc instead of append you get darn close to the single-loop performance 21:33:17 No. If you want an inner loop and an outer loop, you use two loop forms 21:33:55 ktx [~ktx@unaffiliated/ktx] has joined #lisp 21:34:11 dlowe: ah, okay 21:34:21 Yoona-: you can loop over a list of pairs e.g.: ((0 0) (0 1) ... (0 10) (1 0) (1 1) ...) 21:34:35 Yoona-: but that, just pushes the problem out to generating the list of pairs 21:34:41 *jasom* just uses nconc 21:35:07 dlowe: and more generally if you need N*M, it doesn't matter if you flatten the loop or not 21:35:53 you could probably do that specifically perhaps with some mod/div but it would be silly, hard to read, and not save any time 21:35:59 -!- Pullphinger [~Pullphing@12.40.23.68] has quit [] 21:36:04 jasom: nah, i want something lik (loop for i from 0 to 99 for j from 0 to 10 collect (+ i j)) with such semantics that it will eval (+ i j) 990 times. 21:36:41 that is not how loop works, but you could do (loop for i from 0 to (* 99 10) ...) and math your proper i and j 21:36:51 and it would be exactly as many operations as two loops 21:37:06 oGMo: i need thre loops and it doesn't involve math 21:37:08 (actually more since math) 21:37:18 Yoona-: nope you get a single loop for each loop macro 21:37:26 that was a fictional example as i mentioned 21:37:41 you need three loops, use three loops, it's not bad 21:37:55 Yoona-: but if you want to collect into a flat list, use nconc rather than append 21:38:17 okay, just was curious. 21:38:23 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:39 jasom: thanks, will it improve performance? 21:39:16 what are tradeoffs? why even use append with loop if there is nconc? 21:39:38 You don't want to use nconc with, say, a literal list 21:39:44 because it might mutate it 21:39:45 Yoona-: There are corner cases with nconc if you are going to use the value before exiting the loop 21:39:48 yrdz [~p_adams@unaffiliated/p-adams/x-7117614] has joined #lisp 21:40:04 dlowe: can you nconc into a non loop created list? 21:40:22 -!- mgodshall [~mgodshall@8.20.30.249] has quit [Quit: mgodshall] 21:40:23 oh, you mean (loop for i from 1 to 100 nconc '(1)) for example 21:40:28 that would be bad 21:40:28 yep. 21:40:44 or any other list you don't want changed out from under you 21:41:01 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:41:03 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFE745.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:41:28 (let ((my-happy-list ...)) (loop for i from 1 to 100 nconc my-happy-list) ... ; my-happy-list is now sad 21:41:49 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 21:41:53 er 21:41:58 (let ((my-happy-list ...)) (loop for i from 1 to 100 nconc i into my-happy-list) ... ; my-happy-list is now sad 21:42:24 Atrumx [~Atrumx@unaffiliated/fivedeltasix] has joined #lisp 21:42:25 anyway, you want real speed, ignore all this list making and preallocate a vector :p 21:43:14 gotcha, thanks! 21:45:30 Davidbrcz [~david@140.142.25.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:12 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:48:27 ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 21:50:37 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-hevvuhbbdpgjpnix] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:51:15 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:53:38 -!- antonv [~user@93.171.161.176] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55:07 -!- heddwch [~yoshi@76.8.3.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:55:46 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@123.208.188.34] has joined #lisp 21:56:18 heddwch [~yoshi@76.8.3.189] has joined #lisp 22:00:46 -!- bassclide [~bassclide@118.129.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:55 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:04:40 askatasuna [~askatasun@181.30.10.50] has joined #lisp 22:04:52 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-24-17-64-212.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:05:57 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:06:07 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-184-105.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:06:30 ck [~ck@aftr-37-24-144-181.unity-media.net] has joined #lisp 22:06:35 -!- zophy [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:06:42 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-158-17.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:07:10 Abby18 [~Abby18@95.141.20.196] has joined #lisp 22:07:12 I give you some pictures. I hope you like! http://bit.do/my_videos69 22:07:14 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:07:37 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:07:55 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:59 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-5d815fe9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:08:00 -!- Abby18 [~Abby18@95.141.20.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:08:36 -!- ck`` [~ck@aftr-37-24-144-181.unity-media.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:08:55 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@77.78.117.8] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 22:09:03 -!- bishu [~bishudas@76.178.144.102] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:21 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:09:25 stepnem [~stepnem@77.78.117.8] has joined #lisp 22:09:35 -!- slyrus_ is now known as 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[~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:17:45 -!- Ayey [~rune1@2-106-141-211-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:19:01 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@140.142.25.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:19:45 ASau [~user@p54AFE745.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:21:08 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 22:22:49 peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c156-108.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 22:23:36 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:11 -!- sirdancealot [~koo5@194.228.11.172] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:24:26 maaan, that's frustrating....seems like i have to specialize my presentation-methods for each type of input..... 22:25:24 -!- matko [~matko@ip82-139-125-221.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:26:31 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 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has joined #lisp 22:57:06 hi again 22:57:23 is it possible to set global (optimize debug)? 22:58:42 -!- fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:58:56 <_death> clhs declaim 22:58:56 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_declai.htm 22:59:00 -!- Twipply [~Twipply3@cpc17-mapp10-2-0-cust179.12-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:59:36 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 22:59:49 -!- ck [~ck@aftr-37-24-144-181.unity-media.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:01:02 _death: sorry, does it mean that (declaim (optimize debug)) in cl-user while in slime makes all subsequent ql:quickload compile with maximum debug level? 23:01:14 -!- developernotes [~developer@173-29-199-75.client.mchsi.com] has quit [] 23:01:17 <_death> no 23:01:58 -!- Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:02:06 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.21.191] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:02:13 It should. Why do you say no _death? 23:02:45 or at least, (declaim (optimize (debug 3) (safety 3) (speed 0) (space 0))) 23:03:58 For SBCL, take a look at http://stackoverflow.com/q/4638710/238405. 23:04:04 pjb: I think it's hard to know what happens. My code sometimes sets optimization in each file. 23:04:09 -!- Guest6657 is now known as brown 23:04:13 *jaimef* looks for an example log parser in CL 23:04:16 <_death> I believe you want with-compilation-unit.. sbcl provides a :policy option 23:04:21 -!- BlackWabi [~wabi@ip235-168.wireless.lu.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:04:30 Yoona-: now, what happens, is that some libraries include their own declare optimize forms, sometimes function per function. 23:04:39 -!- brown is now known as Guest37604 23:04:47 -!- Guest37604 is now known as reb` 23:04:50 Yoona-: and of course, ql:quickload doesn't always compile: if it's already compiled, it just load. 23:05:25 reb`: this is bad practice to put optimize forms in libraries. 23:06:13 It might be tolerated for some specific functions, but if a function doesn't work correctly without the declare optimize, then it should be rejected, speed nonwithstanding. 23:06:29 But all right, I'm quite a purist there. 23:07:22 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 23:07:43 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:07:46 -!- slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 23:07:47 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:08:02 just tried out myself and my own code ql library wich is not containging any other optimize declarations and it failed with both declaim and (sb-ext:restrict-compiler-policy 'debug 3) but i guess i need to recompile everything 23:08:07 how can i do it? 23:08:13 -!- nand1 [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:08:21 everything what i'm quickloading* 23:08:24 rm -rf ~/.cache/common-lisp # or something more specific. 23:08:34 -!- doomlord_ [~servitor@host109-151-65-32.range109-151.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:08:56 pjb: thanks! 23:09:38 /quit ZzzZZ 23:09:41 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: ZzzZZ] 23:09:48 great, declaim did the trick 23:09:53 nand1 [~user@c-71-202-128-245.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:02 jlongster [~user@pool-173-53-114-190.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:13 even my quickloaded(after declamation) library was compiled with maximum debug 23:10:45 pjb: Hmmm. I typically do (declaim #.*optimize-default*) so I can change the settings of all my libraries by zapping *optimize-default*. 23:11:37 heh, and i can see performance hit of (declaim (optimize (debug 3) (safety 3) (speed 0) (space 0))) for library which haven't got any optimize declarations 23:11:38 I also use (declaim #.*optimize-fast-unsafe*) with a several files to get maximum optimization. 23:11:45 Well, I always use max debug, etc. When generating applications or executable, I have specific generation scripts, I don't use the usual environment. 23:11:50 maybe it defaults to speed 0, does it? 23:12:01 Yoona-: you can? 23:12:15 can't 23:12:18 sorry 23:12:18 -!- ircbrowse [~chrisdone@2a01:4f8:150:5307::2] has quit [Changing host] 23:12:18 ircbrowse [~chrisdone@unaffiliated/chrisdone] has joined #lisp 23:12:18 You do you make the difference between 0.00234 and 0.00245? 23:12:39 Yeah, processors are too fast nowadays. 23:13:06 When I last upgraded, for a week I was typing all my commands twice to make sure they did execute. 23:13:20 ha-ha 23:13:55 Maybe I should remove compilation speed settings from most libraries and use local settings inside all the functions I want to go fast. Not sure what's best. 23:14:19 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-173-53-114-190.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:14:27 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: conversation abandoned into eternal bleeding] 23:14:41 pjb: how exactly do you use max debug? I mean each time after slime starts you type in reple (decalim ...)? 23:14:57 No, I have that in my rc files. 23:15:45 pjb: but that will enforce max debug on each dependency you compiled for you project, will it? 23:16:39 compile* 23:16:57 Pullphinger [~Pullphing@c-24-13-69-42.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:17:12 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-50-188-34-170.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:17:33 Sure. 23:17:50 And as you noted no speed difference that you can notice. 23:18:00 gotcha, thank you a lot! 23:18:05 bye bye 23:18:17 -!- Yoona- [~other@188.162.64.97] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:18:18 Now the point is that all the time you run slime, you're developping, not running production code. 23:18:35 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.41.243] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:19:12 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.41.243] has joined #lisp 23:19:46 WarWeasle [~Kaltara@172.242.21.170] has joined #lisp 23:20:15 ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 23:20:58 -!- sellout- [~Adium@66.185.108.211] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:21:07 -!- mwnaylor [~user@altoona-69-72-75-3.dynamic-dialup.coretel.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:23:49 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.41.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:24:00 -!- stopbyte [~stopbit@198.178.121.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:25:14 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:07 <_death> looks like lla is broken in new quicklisp update? 23:31:59 -!- zophy [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:33:21 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 23:33:31 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 23:35:35 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:39 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:36:43 -!- slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 23:37:05 -!- bcoburn [~nialo@66-87-117-105.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:37:06 -!- yrdz [~p_adams@unaffiliated/p-adams/x-7117614] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:40:03 joneshf-work [~joneshf@167.222-62-69.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:11 Nizumzen [~Nizumzen@cpc1-reig5-2-0-cust251.6-3.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:26 -!- victor_lowther_ [sid17606@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ejmopovghglpbovf] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:41:09 bcoburn [~nialo@66.87.117.105] has joined #lisp 23:41:38 victor_lowther_ [sid17606@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nqohhhiviolqiomd] has joined #lisp 23:42:03 BlackWabi [~wabi@c83-191-78-163.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 23:42:04 yrdz [~p_adams@unaffiliated/p-adams/x-7117614] has joined #lisp 23:45:16 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:120b:2c09:19c0:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:45:55 -!- jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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