00:00:07 -!- ASau [~user@p5083D448.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:00:25 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:00:45 -!- zygentoma [~kvirc@213-66-93-185-no49.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 00:01:39 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:45 wbooze [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-185-226.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:05:33 -!- oleo is now known as Guest57559 00:06:35 -!- Guest57559 [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-189-114.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:07:07 -!- wbooze is now known as oleo 00:07:32 znode [~Z.Node@120.83.208.39] has joined #lisp 00:12:17 -!- znode [~Z.Node@120.83.208.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:22:27 Ethan- [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 00:24:10 -!- killmaster [~killmaste@70.105.249.5.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 00:29:29 <_death> so it's still the case that a STREAM-FILE-LENGTH function is not provided.. 00:30:09 -!- vaporatorius [~vaporator@203.Red-83-44-77.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:30:13 -!- zyder [~zyder@cpe-74-76-255-20.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:33:45 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@222.91.105.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:36:22 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@29-189.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:38:20 -!- Joreji [~thomas@136-135.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:38:43 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:40:00 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:43:01 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:35 -!- jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-50-148-124-212.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:44:37 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p5B2B1315.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:47:30 Some way to get the pretty printer to ignore placement of ansi escape sequences (which it doesn't attempt to make viewable anyways). 00:50:58 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.217.60] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:51:54 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.164.189.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:53:45 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:54:23 I wonder if you could make escape a dispatch macro char and have it return an object that prints itself 00:54:53 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:45 Sounds plausible to me. 00:56:52 Ooh. And you know what else sounds plausible? Hook that into an outer loop for your REPL function (such as SBCL's hook for custom REPLs) so that you can have "lispm-style rubout handling" that way. 00:57:17 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:57:24 jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-50-148-124-212.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:57:40 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:01 Basically, have the macro-char check a mode switch (or use a custom readtable) so that things like arrow-key escape sequences can signal a condition that the outer loop can interpret in various ways. 00:58:50 Interesting. 01:00:58 tkd_ [~tomek@5.39.61.102] has joined #lisp 01:01:26 -!- kaygun [~kaygun@85.96.86.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:04:18 ... You'd still need to kick the terminal stream to raw mode, and make sure that it was restored on exit, but it's a workable idea... 01:04:24 ikki [~ikki@187.208.225.16] has joined #lisp 01:04:29 -!- tkd_ [~tomek@5.39.61.102] has quit [Client Quit] 01:04:37 tkd_ [~tomek@ogbunabali.wa.ht] has joined #lisp 01:05:03 -!- tkd [~tomek@tlahuizcalpantecuhtli.wa.ht] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:06:00 -!- tkd_ is now known as tkd 01:06:09 MouldyOldBones [~mob@gateway/tor-sasl/mouldyoldbones] has joined #lisp 01:07:35 znode [~Z.Node@120.83.208.39] has joined #lisp 01:09:10 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.225.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:10:59 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:12:15 -!- znode [~Z.Node@120.83.208.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:14:10 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@c-24-7-64-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:15:15 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@2.80.248.29] has quit [] 01:17:55 -!- innertracks 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[~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:b476:8479:4d0e:c5fc] has joined #lisp 02:48:36 -!- gmcastil [~user@75-145-122-2-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:49:07 tadni [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:49:09 -!- prxq_ [~mommer@x2f67763.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:49:17 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:50:43 -!- znode [~Z.Node@120.83.208.39] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 03:02:17 zacharias_ [~aw@p54AFC67B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 03:02:20 -!- zacharias_ [~aw@p54AFC67B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Changing host] 03:02:20 zacharias_ [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 03:03:02 prxq_ [~mommer@x2f69530.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lisp 03:03:33 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:08:29 MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:13:20 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:14:52 -!- fchurca [~fchurca@181.29.108.149] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:15:39 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:19:06 -!- klltkr_ [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 03:23:46 -!- normanrichards [~textual@107-217-160-169.lightspeed.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 03:28:52 wall [~wall@ip178-67-170-147.onego.ru] has joined #lisp 03:32:02 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:32:03 -!- tadni [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:33:20 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:34:24 ackpacket [1806ee5f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.6.238.95] has joined #lisp 03:35:28 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:41:50 tadni [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:43:55 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:b476:8479:4d0e:c5fc] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:45:11 zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has joined #lisp 03:45:50 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:46:29 Can anyone explain to me the lambda function being used in this snippet? It looks like they're defining an anonymous function, but it's never getting called or used anywhere. What's going on here? http://paste.lisp.org/display/141111 03:48:17 try #scheme, ackpacket 03:48:17 ackpacket: but, it's calling the function immediately. ((lambda (a b) ...) ...) 03:48:32 what's getting passed into a and b? 03:49:09 The following two forms? 03:49:51 (+ 1 (* x y) and (- 1 y) 03:50:33 Hmm... ok let me look up the official definition of it and see where I went wrong 03:50:36 thanks 03:53:50 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:54:34 On the one hand, that's scheme. On the other hand, it's a lambda expression in the CAR of a form, which actually behaves the same way in Common Lisp: it names a function which is to be applied with the remaining elements of the form as parameters. 03:54:56 -!- zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has quit [Quit: zajn] 03:56:03 -!- tadni [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:56:21 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.164.189.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:56:40 -!- yrdz [~p_adams@unaffiliated/p-adams/x-7117614] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 03:56:45 zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has joined #lisp 03:57:19 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:57:25 -!- genericus [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has left #lisp 03:58:31 n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:dce:9cdc:dfb7:5f8b] has joined #lisp 03:58:46 -!- QwertyDragon [~chatzilla@pool-173-76-7-69.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Iceape 2.7.12/20130119143918]] 03:59:49 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:00:42 tadni` [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:01:08 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:54 ubikation [~user@c-67-166-81-173.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:06:17 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.38.118] has left #lisp 04:07:35 ikki [~ikki@187.208.225.16] has joined #lisp 04:07:59 jhao [~user@pool-72-76-190-214.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:09:31 what is incf? it seems to only operate on variables, not numbers. 04:10:09 -!- zophy_ [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:10:18 ubikation: "INCrement Field", similar to setf "SET Field" 04:11:12 p_l: is there a special term for a function that only accepts fields? 04:11:16 -!- zenoli_ is now known as zenoli 04:11:24 it's not a function 04:11:26 not a function 04:11:32 it's a macro. 04:11:40 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:12:22 ubikation: the "field" abstraction is done with macros, as Bike and Quadrescence said. A bit related to "locatives" of LispM 04:13:11 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:13:46 CL-LOCATIVE! 04:14:01 with an S 04:15:18 thanks! 04:15:41 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:16:28 (don't use locatives in your code) 04:17:39 why does (defmacro a (x) `(,(+ x 1))) (a 1) evaluate correctly while giving me an error? 04:18:42 tadni`` [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:19:11 -!- cross [~cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:19:12 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 04:19:32 ubikation, what does (1) evaluate to in Lisp? 04:19:33 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:19:39 Or (2) 04:19:59 -!- tadni` [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:21:33 -!- MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 04:22:51 Quadrescence: thanks! I didn't know `,(...) worked 04:23:49 what's the point of that 04:24:48 Given that the macro is called "a", I'd say experimenting with an unfamiliar mechanism. 04:24:50 Bike: just playing around with macros 04:25:51 And while I can't think of a use of `, offhand, I can easily see it appearing as part of a refactoring sequence. 04:27:05 what do you call it when you make a function stateful? if I had a function like (lambda (x) (+ x 1)), and I enclosed it in a let that bound x to 0, how could I make it so that repeated calls increment it? 04:27:12 incf 04:27:23 which amounts to (setf x (+ x 1)) of course 04:27:36 err but in general how do you make a function stateful? 04:28:02 Depends on what you mean by "stateful". 04:28:36 cross [~cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net] has joined #lisp 04:29:31 Are you looking at "has side-effects", or "keeps track of things internally"? 04:29:41 keep track of things internally 04:29:55 (And might I just say that the latter is spectacularly obnoxious in terms of testability?) 04:30:34 But, yeah, basically you close over some bit of mutable state. 04:30:59 Congratulations, all of a sudden your code is harder to test, harder to debug, and harder to reason about. 04:31:15 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:31:38 you could say the same about using clos 04:31:45 Might be more clever, though, and it might be a useful point in design space to occupy, but you'll need to weigh your options carefully when you're considering it. 04:32:03 no, the point here is that there's no general way to access closure variables. with clos you have accessors and slot-value. 04:32:18 Even with CLOS, there are things that I DO say the same things about. 04:32:52 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:32:53 Just because a feature exists doesn't necessarily mean that it's a good idea to use it. 04:32:59 I think it might be useful... I just want to see how to do it in cl. I did it in python a while ago in 3 lines and I just can't for the life of me can't remember how, or how to imagine doing it in cl 04:33:13 (let ((x 0)) (lambda () (incf x))) 04:33:14 bam 04:33:46 but I want to have a function I repeatedly call and it returns an incremented stateful value 04:33:52 that's just a lexical binding right? 04:33:56 try mine. 04:33:56 (defun foo (x) (lambda () (incf x))), even trickier. 04:34:21 (defvar *incr* (let ((x 0)) (lambda () (incf x))) then (funcall *incr*) => 1, (funcall *incr*) => 2... 04:34:32 Or (let ((x 0)) (defun foo () (incf x))). 04:34:38 Ah, closures 04:34:42 nyef: ah that last one! 04:35:01 Ah, you want a named function definition rather than an anonymous function. 04:35:07 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-duatfcqmlvlojzma] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:35:39 nyef: yes. Is that significant? I thought lambdas/functions were interchangeable 04:35:51 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-daoppwytrngeogwf] has joined #lisp 04:36:06 it's not significant, you could do (setf (fdefinition 'foo) mine) 04:36:25 It is significant in some ways, and not in others. 04:37:32 DEFUN defines a named function, associating it with a function name (usually a symbol, and we won't get into the exceptions immediately). 04:38:09 it's not significant to closures, i mean 04:38:26 LAMBDA, if evaluated, produces an anonymous function as its value, and you have to set it to an fdefinition or symbol-function in order to call it by name, or you can use FUNCALL or APPLY to use it directly. 04:38:26 unless you want to go into eval-when stuff i guess 04:38:49 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:39:11 It's germane to closures when you're dealing with higher-order functions rather than defining them at toplevel. 04:39:41 could you elaborate on that last point? 04:39:50 p_l|back1p [~pl@146.185.153.36] has joined #lisp 04:39:51 ec_ [~elliottca@ell.io] has joined #lisp 04:39:56 ft_ [~ft@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has joined #lisp 04:40:08 Compare the three examples given above. 04:40:45 qsun_ [~qsun@27-32-60-26.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 04:40:48 tmitt_ [~stephengr@host-68-169-146-178.BROOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #lisp 04:40:48 bege_ [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:40:56 zophy_ [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 04:41:01 -!- p_l|backup [~pl@146.185.153.36] has quit [Disconnected by services] 04:41:04 My first example was a function that takes an argument and returns a function that keeps track of and mutates that argument. 04:41:11 -!- p_l|back1p is now known as p_l|backup 04:42:29 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 04:43:08 beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-236-135.w109-215.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 04:43:18 Good morning everyone! 04:44:18 Hello beach. 04:47:08 hey beach 04:49:03 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@117.22.200.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:49:17 So what's new and exciting? 04:50:23 if I define a lambda in slime, how do I evaluate it? 04:51:00 ubikation: What does it mean to "define a lambda"? 04:51:13 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 04:51:20 call 04:52:16 err, funcall... 04:53:28 New and exciting? Well, there's at least one issue with SBCL's gray-stream implementation that I ran into some time ago but only recently figured out what I was seeing and which side (CL+SSL or SBCL) was at fault... 04:54:57 enn_ [~eli@codeanddata.com] has joined #lisp 04:55:53 nyef: Great! That you figured it out, I mean. 04:56:37 -!- zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has quit [Quit: zajn] 04:57:18 Yeah. I've already added cleaning up the SBCL side of things to my project list, and I at least have a lead on putting together a workaround for where I found the issue. 04:58:45 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:58:51 zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has joined #lisp 05:02:33 nyef: Are you also working on some of your own projects these days? 05:03:12 Some, mostly non-computing at this point. 05:03:36 Work has been kicking my ass recently, so getting away from the computer entirely helps a bit. 05:04:59 Also been trying to figure out various bits with SBCL, such as the assembler's scheduler, what's causing build failures on the SPARC backend, and so on. 05:05:47 -!- effy_ [~x@114.253.32.17] has quit [Excess Flood] 05:06:13 kvsari [~kvsari@119-173-226-24.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 05:06:18 -!- ec [~elliottca@ell.io] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 05:06:21 -!- ft [~ft@shell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:06:21 -!- ft_ is now known as ft 05:06:39 effy [~x@114.253.32.17] has joined #lisp 05:06:48 -!- seangrov` [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 05:07:35 -!- loke_erc [~user@203.127.16.194] has quit [Excess Flood] 05:07:45 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.108.146] has quit [Excess Flood] 05:07:54 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.221] has quit [Excess Flood] 05:08:02 cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.108.146] has joined #lisp 05:08:10 mathrick [~mathrick@94.144.63.221] has joined #lisp 05:08:36 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Write error: Connection timed out] 05:08:37 tadni [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 05:09:02 -!- enn [~eli@codeanddata.com] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 05:09:03 -!- qsun [~qsun@27-32-60-26.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 05:09:03 -!- tmitt [~stephengr@host-68-169-146-178.BROOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 05:09:37 -!- luis [~luis@kerno.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 327 seconds] 05:09:44 luis` [~luis@kerno.org] has joined #lisp 05:10:16 -!- tadni`` [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:10:29 nyef: Are you also working on the ARM port? 05:10:51 Yes, but that's taken a back burner to the SPARC backend issues. 05:12:24 Because you need the SPARC backend yourself? 05:14:38 At first because it was supposed to be an EASY fix, and then because it's a bloody hard fix that's going to require either desk-checking the whole backend or a tool to track down the issue, and any such tool will be generally useful for tracking down similar issues on all of the backends. 05:15:33 And that led me to studying the scheduler bits of the assembler, since it ties into the whole issue, and I should be able to use that knowledge to improve the ARM port later on once it's at least minimally functional... 05:15:50 -!- tadni [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:15:50 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:17:09 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.225.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:19:23 KDr2 [~KDr2@117.22.200.80] has joined #lisp 05:19:54 Very useful! 05:20:35 araujo [~araujo@190.73.46.113] has joined #lisp 05:20:35 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.46.113] has quit [Changing host] 05:20:35 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 05:21:20 Remind me: It is essential to get scheduling right on SPARC because it changes what the program does, right? 05:21:49 ... as opposed to some other processor where it only effects performance? 05:22:03 Mmm... The scheduler itself probably works just fine on SPARC. Turning it off certainly didn't fix the issue. 05:22:46 No, see... The scheduler is only supposed to affect performance. If it does affect semantics then something is broken somewhere. 05:23:33 But the information it uses is basically lifetime information on TNs and such, defined at the instruction level. 05:24:01 Also on control flow, to cover branch-delay slots. 05:24:20 I see. 05:24:26 So it knows that a NOP consumes nothing useful and produces nothing useful, so it can be discarded if something else can fit into that delay slot. 05:25:26 continuations are not implemented in cl, but are a library instead. looking at quicklisp, it seems like most libraries do not use cl-cont. are continuations less useful in cl compared to scheme? are they written from scratch in other libraries? or are they generally not as useful or as big a feature as the internet makes me believe? 05:25:33 I guess what I meant to say is that the semantics of the SPARC are more complicated than a sequential execution of the instructions. 05:26:05 That's not really the issue either. Any CPU has semantics more complicated than sequential execution of instructions. 05:26:33 The SPARC build failure is due to a change in how the compiler makes use of lifetime information defined at the VOP level. 05:27:12 I just looked up sparc hoping it was stack based like the jvm but I guess not :( 05:27:12 And this change exposes problems where the lifetime information is incorrectly declared. 05:27:31 tadni [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 05:27:38 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:28:36 ubikation: Common Lisp does not allow continuations with indefinite extent the way (say) Scheme does. 05:28:37 So in the many, many VOPs that define the SPARC backend, at least a handful of them have bad lifetime data, causing values to be overwritten before they should be. 05:28:51 nyef: Got it. 05:29:32 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:30:01 (I say at least a handful, though it could be as few as three. Two full-call VOPs and one other that I have yet to find.) 05:30:38 And then there could be further problems with other backends. We've already fixed the full-call VOPs on PPC for precisely this, and I'm confident that the same issue affects SPARC and possibly other backends. 05:30:47 Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 05:30:48 beach: why is not indefinite in cl? clhs says that 'indefinite extent' applies to clos, so couldn't it apply to continuations? 05:32:25 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.39.35] has joined #lisp 05:32:35 ubikation: call/cc can get very nasty to implement, very quickly. And most systems that were used as exemplars of "current practice" at the time Common Lisp was originally standardized didn't support it. 05:32:57 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:32:59 ubikation: As such, requiring it would have been a massive burden for not much gain, given that many of these systems were already at least somewhat successful already. 05:33:36 (call/cc being a bloody tactical nuclear weapon of control-flow hacking doesn't help either.) 05:34:55 Yeah, it's messy, and it typically has problems both with performance and with semantics. 05:35:31 call/cc indeed mess code up 05:41:22 -!- tadni [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:42:19 beach` [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-212-69.w90-45.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 05:42:47 tadni [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 05:44:03 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-236-135.w109-215.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:44:15 -!- beach` is now known as beach 05:45:32 -!- rk[]_ is now known as rk[]_[] 05:51:14 -!- tadni [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:55:01 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:dce:9cdc:dfb7:5f8b] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:56:33 -!- zophy_ [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:57:33 -!- arubin [~textual@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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There are a few broken links due to inconsistencies in the original text, and I have to think about how to fix them. 06:57:24 Comments, remarks, improvements, and bug fixes are welcome as usual, as well as "additional material". In particular, at some point, I would like to create a good index for the site. 06:58:03 GIT repository here: https://github.com/robert-strandh/CLOS-MOP-HTML as before. 07:02:38 tadni [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 07:02:39 -!- wall [~wall@ip178-67-170-147.onego.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:03:43 wall [~wall@ip178-67-170-147.onego.ru] has joined #lisp 07:09:53 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-93.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:16:12 zophy_ [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 07:20:09 -!- drmeister is now known as meister_ 07:20:15 -!- meister_ is now known as drmeister 07:24:03 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:25:24 <|3b|> beach: "A list of all classes of the metaobject protocol." is the only entry in the table of contents is the only one with a #\. (though it is the last one, so it sort of fits there if anywhere) 07:28:02 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 07:30:18 |3b|: Fixed! Thanks. 07:31:12 <|3b|> class-metaobject links to standard-class.html rather than class-standard-object.html 07:31:41 Where? 07:31:58 <|3b|> sorry, standard-object.html 07:32:07 <|3b|> http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/class-metaobject.html 07:32:13 <|3b|> direct superclasses 07:32:35 bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #lisp 07:33:19 -!- zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has quit [Quit: zajn] 07:33:27 -!- bjz_ [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:33:33 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:33:55 <|3b|> and in http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/class-standard-object.html , "A subclass of standard-class. may have..." has an extra . after standard-class 07:35:04 Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 07:35:25 -!- jhao [~user@pool-72-76-190-214.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:35:51 <|3b|> same in http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/class-funcallable-standard-object.html , extra . in "A subclass of funcallable-standard-class. may have ..." 07:37:57 |3b|: All fixed. Thanks! 07:38:39 <|3b|> in http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/class-standard-generic-function.html "This is also a class on which user specializations are normally based.", should that be "the class" rather than "a class"? 07:39:03 Let me check the original text... 07:40:03 Yes, my bad. 07:40:04 <|3b|> standard-method has the same text, so if both are correct, "a" is probably better than "the" 07:40:19 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 07:40:44 The original text groups them together and says "the classes". 07:41:47 I think I'll keep it for now. 07:42:30 <|3b|> pages for GFs/methods don't have a link back to the list of them, like classes do 07:42:50 Right. 07:43:07 I may add an up arrow to those pages. 07:45:19 There are quite a few of them, so I need to find a way to automate the process. 07:46:55 <|3b|> http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/direct-slot-definition-class-standard-class.html links to http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/standard-direct-slot-definition.html rather than http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/class-standard-direct-slot-definition.html 07:47:25 <|3b|> same for http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/direct-slot-definition-class-funcallable-standard-class.html 07:48:15 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:49:05 successfully configure imaxima in emacs today ! maxiam is really a great software. (%i2) char(T(N+1)-2*T(N),1,T,N,1,[T(0)=0]); => (\%o2) T\left(N\right)=2^{N}-1 07:49:29 -!- zophy_ [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:49:32 <|3b|> http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/class-standard-effective-slot-definition.html and http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/effective-slot-definition-class-funcallable-standard-class.html have same problem with http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/standard-effective-slot-definition.html / http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/class-standard-effective-slot-definition.html 07:50:21 BenjyCui [~user@163.204.72.85] has joined #lisp 07:50:28 <|3b|> and http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/effective-slot-definition-class.html should link to http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/class-effective-slot-definition.html 07:51:20 slyrus [~chatzilla@12.33.10.180] has joined #lisp 07:51:45 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:51:51 <_schulte_> beach: have you considered using texinfo? It looks very similar to texinfo HTML output and that will automated much of this linking 07:52:52 |3b|: All fixed. Thanks! 07:53:10 jchelary [~jchelary@pl603.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 07:53:52 _schulte_: I have used Texinfo in the past. I didn't consider it this time. Why, I am not sure. 07:54:13 _schulte_: The main work with this site could not be automated. 07:54:15 <|3b|> http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/metaobjects.html in "These are the classes: class, slot-definition,..." doesn't have a link for slot-definition, probably should be http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/class-slot-definition.html ? 07:54:45 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 07:55:02 <|3b|> also, class, method, method-combination link to CLHS rather than your pages 07:55:37 Yes, I HTMLized that page before I decided to create pages for the classes, which is why there is no link to slot-definition. 07:55:57 zophy_ [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 07:56:00 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 07:57:28 zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has joined #lisp 08:01:08 Fixed! Though now i have a broken link to class-method-combination.html. 08:01:19 I don't know why I never created that page. 08:02:20 -!- nug700 [~nug700@184-98-184-249.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 08:02:48 -!- BenjyCui [~user@163.204.72.85] has left #lisp 08:04:08 I'll work on that later. Thanks for all the input, |3b|! 08:04:40 nug700 [~nug700@184-98-184-249.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 08:09:06 beach: looks nice. How long did it take to make all of this? 08:13:35 beach: maybe because the mop doesn't say much of anything about method combinations? 08:20:35 <|3b|> beach: in http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/implementation-and-user-specialization.html "A method is specialized a class if ..." seems to be missing a word 08:21:55 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:22:31 <|3b|> "; and" later in that sentence and in first definition seems odd to me, not sure if it is actually incorrect or not though 08:23:32 hitecnologys: Hard to say. I did it incrementally. 08:23:54 Bike: Yes, but it is in the hierarchy, so I should have made a page for it. 08:24:03 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 08:24:39 |3b|: That's in the original text, but I'll fix it. 08:24:51 <|3b|> yeah, was just noticing that 08:26:12 beach: I see. 08:26:30 beach: anyway, great job. 08:26:43 hitecnologys: Thanks! 08:27:29 hitecnologys: Working on SICL, I got tired of flipping pages in the AMOP and searching for references such as "The CLOS specification". 08:27:31 -!- snikkers [~snikkers@cable-217-63-82-193.zeelandnet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:27:37 hitecnologys: So it will save me a lot of time. 08:28:26 beach: I see. 08:31:47 |3b|: See what you think of my improvement related to that last comment of yours. 08:32:40 hitecnologys: And, since I needed it myself, might as well turn it into a shared resource. 08:32:56 <|3b|> you mean converting it to a sublist? that seems reasonable 08:32:58 -!- wall [~wall@ip178-67-170-147.onego.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:33:02 Yeah. 08:33:07 wall [~wall@ip92-101-243-53.onego.ru] has joined #lisp 08:33:29 vaporatorius [~vaporator@203.Red-83-44-77.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:34:49 <|3b|> beach: in http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/add-dependent-funcallable-standard-class.html the text of the link to remove-dependent seems to be missing a space between metaobject and funcallable- 08:36:25 liqu0rice [~yaaic@brln-4db970a0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:36:25 <|3b|> same in http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/remove-dependent-funcallable-standard-class.html for the add-dependent link 08:37:09 Fixed! Thanks! 08:37:42 mrSpec [~Spec@77-254-147-105.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #lisp 08:37:42 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@77-254-147-105.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Changing host] 08:37:42 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:38:18 eraaij [~eraaij@dhcp-089-099-104-233.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 08:38:39 shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-pbjoyqnaarcwlpom] has joined #lisp 08:49:46 <|3b|> beach: http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/processing-of-the-user-interface-macros.html looks like it has an unclosed tag 08:50:19 <|3b|> or rather a missing > 08:54:09 -!- liqu0rice [~yaaic@brln-4db970a0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:54:23 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-146-202.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:54:59 |3b|: Fixed. Thanks! I am really grateful for all this proofreading. 08:58:07 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:58:27 -!- jchelary [~jchelary@pl603.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:59:11 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 09:00:32 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.225.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:03:31 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.144.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 09:04:32 francogrex [~user@91.182.141.47] has joined #lisp 09:05:34 pierpa [~user@host106-247-dynamic.18-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:05:53 -!- Watcher7 [~w@108.218.1.96] has quit [Quit: h] 09:06:53 *francogrex* messages? 09:10:15 amaron [~amaron@net23-1-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs] has joined #lisp 09:12:01 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 09:12:08 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.39.35] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:12:32 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.199.102] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 09:13:04 -!- zacharias_ is now known as zacharias 09:13:30 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:14:04 -!- francogrex [~user@91.182.141.47] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:14:10 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:26:54 -!- nug700 [~nug700@184-98-184-249.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 09:27:48 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:505b:d1d0:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 09:30:56 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 09:31:48 -!- zophy_ [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:33:27 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 09:40:29 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:dce:9cdc:dfb7:5f8b] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:41:45 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:41:57 ndrei_ [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 09:42:51 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:45:24 -!- stanislav [~stanislav@bl16-78-131.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:46:15 -!- ndrei_ [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:47:21 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 09:50:46 pvaneynd [pvaneynd@conference/fosdem/x-djelystevftwwjur] has joined #lisp 09:52:15 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:54:59 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:57:13 -!- pvaneynd [pvaneynd@conference/fosdem/x-djelystevftwwjur] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:58:53 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 09:59:36 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 10:01:03 francogrex [~user@91.182.141.47] has joined #lisp 10:04:06 -!- drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:06:35 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:11:01 I take it there is no way to undo a DEFINE-SYMBOL-MACRO, right? Like something analogous to MAKUNBOUND so that it can be later redefined as a variable. 10:11:16 unintern 10:11:27 Hmm, yeah, sure. 10:11:33 That might work. Thanks! 10:12:09 -!- kvsari [~kvsari@119-173-226-24.rev.home.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:18:35 drewc [~drewc@S0106c8d71945c789.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 10:23:55 zophy_ [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 10:26:29 -!- ranko [~ranko@66-117-145-231.lmi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:26:37 -!- amaron [~amaron@net23-1-245-109.mbb.telenor.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:27:37 -!- francogrex [~user@91.182.141.47] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:29:49 jewel [~jewel@105-236-88-77.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:30:01 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 10:34:06 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 10:34:34 cyraxjoe [~joe@189.224.144.193] has joined #lisp 10:35:12 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 10:36:03 Corvidiu1 [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 10:39:44 Zag_ 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[~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 17:01:10 fchurca [~fchurca@181.29.108.149] has joined #lisp 17:01:56 hullo 17:02:08 is here any metabang-bind user? 17:03:57 I've been using it, but found it doesn't provide for (symbol-)macroletting (yet?) 17:04:42 does anyone know if there are plans for those there? 17:05:37 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:07:40 mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.122] has joined #lisp 17:08:10 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.185.228] has joined #lisp 17:08:10 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.185.228] has quit [Changing host] 17:08:10 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:11:17 -!- matko [~matko@ip82-139-125-221.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:11:52 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:57 if not ; has anyone had any success implementing local extensions a la iterate:defmacro-clause ? 17:12:07 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:13:04 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has left #lisp 17:13:31 -!- Praise- is now known as Praise 17:16:15 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:18:29 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:19:24 Joreji [~thomas@136-135.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:19:26 -!- guaqua [gua@hilla.kapsi.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:23:15 -!- Corvidiu1 is now known as Corvidium 17:24:05 bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 17:24:22 -!- sohail_ [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:24:23 -!- zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has quit [Quit: zajn] 17:26:46 zajn [~zajn@108.205.50.54] has joined #lisp 17:29:34 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:03 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:32:18 -!- shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-pbjoyqnaarcwlpom] has quit [Quit: shridhar] 17:32:24 gmcastil [~user@97-122-163-48.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:33 zophy_ [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:02 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.185.228] has joined #lisp 17:37:02 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.76.185.228] has quit [Changing host] 17:37:02 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:39:38 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 17:41:56 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:09 aha! metabang-bind:defbinding-form should do the trick 17:42:23 you know, in case somebody else has my same doubt 17:43:53 zett_zelett [~zett_zele@p2003004DEC282D0102216AFFFE32DB30.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:43:56 -!- zett_zelett [~zett_zele@p2003004DEC282D0102216AFFFE32DB30.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 17:45:16 add^_ [~user@m176-70-201-0.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 17:45:59 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:46:02 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:47:20 -!- hiroaki [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-218-254.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:49:54 Abby24 [~Abby24@77.231.59.198] has joined #lisp 17:49:56 I give you some pictures. I hope you like! http://bit.do/my_videos69 17:50:31 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 17:50:44 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 17:50:44 ndrei_ [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 17:51:08 -!- Abby24 [~Abby24@77.231.59.198] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:51:29 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 17:52:08 what is with it 17:54:34 Question with a bit of setup: I'm exposing C++ iterators/begin()/end() functions to my Common Lisp implementation. 17:54:59 Extensible sequence types? (-: 17:55:40 Within the C++ code you say .def("contents",&class::begin,&class::end) and this sets up a member function called "contents" that returns a wrapped C++ iterator. 17:55:52 melba [~melba@unaffiliated/lazz0] has joined #lisp 17:56:28 Then you can apply two functions to this iterator object, one to get the value and the second to advance to the next value. 17:57:00 What should I call them? Is there anything like this in other Common Lisp libraries? 17:57:46 I think the "contents" function will also take a value that will be returned by the iterator when you hit the end of the sequence. 17:58:20 nyef: What do you mean by Extensible sequence types? 17:58:39 Call the whole thing a "c++-iterator", and don't name the individual bits, maybe? 17:58:39 I recall someone telling me about those a long time ago. 17:59:03 Name which individual bits? 17:59:06 Yeah, Krystof came up with the idea that the CL spec doesn't limit sequences to just lists and arrays. 17:59:42 Krystof - yeah that rings a bell. Hang on, I'll use the google. 18:00:17 The function for getting the current value and the function for advancing to the next value. Together they're an iterator, separate they don't really need to be named anything. 18:00:28 I found this: http://www.doc.gold.ac.uk/~mas01cr/papers/ilc2007/sequences-20070301.pdf 18:00:37 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:00:45 That's probably it. 18:00:48 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-212-69.w90-45.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 18:00:51 Google was working overtime on mapping Krystof to Christophe 18:00:56 arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 18:01:57 Do you mean combine the value getter function with the value advancer function? How do you get the first value? 18:02:14 Or do you get it the first time you call the iterator? 18:02:30 No, I mean /never refer to them separately in your documentation/. 18:04:32 Sure - if I had documentation :-) My strategy on documentation is to steal other peoples library design with such high fidelity that I can write my documentation based on theirs. 18:05:20 With the problem area being the C++ integration, because that's the whole reason you're doing this? 18:05:22 My Common Lisp/C++ binding library is a rip-off of the Luabind library. 18:07:42 That's one of the areas. But I've also exposed the LLVM C++ library, the Clang C++ library, the OpenMPI library. In every case I could have wrapped these libraries in a more Common Lisp way but I mirror the C++ library as closely as possible so I don't have to write too much documentation. 18:08:29 Another example: I wanted a lisp-like language as a scripting language - I chose Common Lisp because it has good documentation - among other reasons. 18:09:02 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:09:16 It turned out to be a bigger challenge than I thought - but hey, what's a few extra 100,000 lines of code among friends. 18:10:06 Back to bizniz: So the CL community likes the Christophe Rhodes approach to "user-extensible sequences"? 18:10:45 It hasn't set the world afire 18:10:48 It's rarely used, AFAIK, but it's a clever option. 18:10:57 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@212.252.82.250] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:11:28 Are there alternatives? 18:11:57 Alternatives that are used instead - or do people just stick with vanilla CL. 18:12:43 14WABZ3QP [~brandon@c-50-131-126-204.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:12:55 I'd mostly stick with vanilla CL, but for what you've got I'd consider a MAP-C++-ITERATOR and a DO-C++-ITERATOR macro, plus a loop access path. 18:13:03 -!- arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:13:08 Err... MAP-C++-ITERATOR function, sorry. 18:13:24 common-lisp.net has no A record today. 18:13:30 that has broken a lot of things for me :( 18:13:55 I thought my dns was acting up 18:14:47 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:14:49 I get the feeling that CL was codified a few years to early. This is not a deal breaker by any means. But the way CLOS and Gray streams and user-extensible sequences are not quite part of the standard gives me that feeling. What's great is that CL allows us to extend the language without breaking anything. 18:14:51 -!- gmcastil [~user@97-122-163-48.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:16:01 MAP-C++-ITERATOR and DO-C++-ITERATOR sound great - I can build those on the lower level interface that I'm fussing with at the moment. 18:16:09 H4ns: do you have any insight into the situation? 18:16:29 Xach: "situation"? 18:16:32 *H4ns* scrolls 18:16:40 H4ns: common-lisp.net has no A record right now. 18:16:50 Many repos are specified with that hostname 18:17:06 that's bad. i'll tell the guys 18:18:14 -!- bcoburn_ [~nialo@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:19:51 Is there a good person or group to contact during events like this? 18:19:53 drmeister: Remember to implement DO-C++-ITERATOR in terms of MAP-C++-ITERATOR. (-: 18:20:00 Xach: not yet, but there will. 18:20:07 will be, that is. 18:20:12 nyef: Why? 18:20:51 Ok, thanks. 18:20:52 Because that way you only have to write the code to use the iterator once... Twice if you add a loop access path. 18:22:23 nyef: Oh - sure. 18:23:03 -!- 14WABZ3QP [~brandon@c-50-131-126-204.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:24:19 pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 18:24:32 vaporatorius [~vaporator@194.Red-79-150-121.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:59 -!- ndrei_ [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:29:00 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:31:07 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.79.21] has joined #lisp 18:31:48 drmeister: CL standardization was caught up by AI winter. There wouldn't have been any money left to finish it a few years later. 18:32:03 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 18:32:40 What is a "DEFADVICE-like mechanism"? It's mentioned in the User extensible sequences paper on page 2 as if I should know what it means. 18:33:10 an advice is a function wrapping a function to modify/add to its behavior. 18:33:31 Oh - cool - thanks. 18:33:36 The basis is (setf symbol-function) or (setf fdefinition). 18:33:38 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 18:33:39 ndrei_ [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 18:33:53 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:34:06 memoization is often implemented as a kind of advice. 18:36:21 And "trampolining" means inserting a test and redirection within a regular function? As in changing the CL:LENGTH function so that it checks if the argument is a non standard CL object and then dispatching to SEQUENCE:LENGTH? 18:36:36 right 18:36:39 Yes, same mechanism too :-) 18:38:03 Krystof: Hello - I'm taking a big leap here - are you the author? 18:38:45 Xof is the author 18:38:51 Xach, be nice 18:38:58 Krystof is Xof! 18:39:01 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:39:18 -!- vaporatorius is now known as Vaporatorius 18:39:19 all of these nicks are me, except kristof 18:39:22 attempt no landings there 18:39:48 krystof xof krystof krystof AND xof 18:40:14 Oh neat - I rarely have the chance to query the author of a paper I'm reading :-) Don't worry - I won't bug you too much. I read a lot of papers. 18:41:09 -!- wall [~wall@ip92-101-243-53.onego.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:41:56 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:38 I don't recall if we've chatted before. In case you just jumped on board triggered by your nickname... I've implemented a new Common Lisp that interoperates with C++. I'm exposing C++ iterators/begin()/end() functions at the moment and I like to use other peoples well thought out ideas on how to implement things in Common Lisp when I do things like this. It saves me a lot of grief. 18:42:51 *drmeister* is going back to reading. 18:43:53 *drmeister* does wonder why computer science/technology papers rarely have dates on them. 18:43:53 I know who you are 18:43:56 I read #sbcl quite a lot 18:45:13 hiroaki [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-218-254.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 18:45:21 Great! Sorry - I have a very weak memory for nicknames. 18:46:06 slyrus [~chatzilla@12.33.10.180] has joined #lisp 18:48:05 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:48:06 sohail_ [~sohail@75-119-248-79.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 18:48:51 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9EC63.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:49:50 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has left #lisp 18:50:24 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:15 -!- pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:51:33 levy [~levy@catv-89-135-132-203.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 18:52:39 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:54:22 kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 18:56:01 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 18:58:59 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-88-77.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:02:02 -!- Joreji [~thomas@136-135.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:02:50 Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 19:03:13 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 19:05:03 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.37.84.191] has joined #lisp 19:05:59 -!- Guest99791 [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:09:29 -!- genericus [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:11:02 What does this mean re: User extensible sequences? "Implementations of this proposal may choose to make the Common Lisp function EQL to the extensible generic function, or even make the symbols themselves EQL to each other;..." 19:11:28 What does making two functions or symbols EQL each other do? 19:11:36 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.144.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 19:12:51 -!- frx [frx@93-138-160-114.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [] 19:13:23 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:51 instead of (defun length (x) (if (listp x) (list-length x) (generic-length x))) do (setf (fdefinition length) #'generic-length) 19:14:00 or have (defgeneric length (x)) 19:14:06 obviously 19:14:30 *drmeister* scratches his head 19:14:41 -!- melba [~melba@unaffiliated/lazz0] has left #lisp 19:14:58 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@12.33.10.180] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:16:13 *drmeister* copies it into emacs to check sexp structure. 19:16:28 I see. 19:17:01 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@212.252.82.250] has joined #lisp 19:18:14 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:19:36 genericus [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:19:43 Gah - what does the acronym PCL stand for? I should know this. 19:19:51 Portable Common Loops? 19:20:01 Printer Control Language? 19:20:09 minion: What does pcl stand for? 19:20:10 Pyrazole Common Lisp 19:20:10 hi all, in case anybody is interested I just uploaded two videos of ProjecturEd (a projectional editor) to youtube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZituWhfINnY 19:20:16 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:20:33 "Support for defining subclasses of SEQUENCE from the customized PCL (Bobrow and Kiczales, 1988) which SBCL incorporates to implement CLOS ..." 19:20:41 er... I mean to http://www.youtube.com/user/projectured 19:20:51 Yeah, that'd be Portable Common Loops. 19:21:34 Hmm, what is Portable Common Loops? Is it a portable LOOP macro something or other? 19:21:53 they are not as good as I'd like them to be and they don't have audio at all 19:22:16 I see, an ancestor of CLOS. 19:22:30 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 19:23:12 but I think they show a couple of interesting things such as editing a JSON document through a projection that sorts the object entries based on their keys 19:24:13 izirku [~izirku@pool-173-71-18-32.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:24:14 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 19:26:31 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@host242.186-108-111.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 19:27:29 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:28:49 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 19:29:31 frx [~a@93-138-160-114.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 19:30:19 -!- ggole [~ggole@124-168-246-236.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 19:30:35 askatasuna [~askatasun@host242.186-108-111.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 19:32:55 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:33:34 jangle [~jimmy1984@c-76-100-118-99.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:34 Ok, it looks like implementing User-extensible sequences will cover what I need right now and a whole lot more - nice. 19:33:50 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:36:32 n0n0 [~n0n0___@c-24-7-64-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:22 Question about: MAKE-SEQUENCE-ITERATOR - the six functions that it returns #'iterator-step, #'iterator-endp ... These are generic functions right? Why return them at all if they are generic functions - won't they be the same for every call to MAKE-SEQUENCE-ITERATOR? 19:39:31 I realize there is very little cost associated with doing so - but I assume that if something is returned by a function then that thing can be customized by the function depending on the arguments to the function. 19:39:57 Krystof: ping ^ - If you have a moment. 19:41:39 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:42:32 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 19:42:37 m104 [~m104@c-67-169-151-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:26 drmeister: i think the idea was that like for a cons you could return cdr instead and such? i don't know, i didn't really get that part either 19:45:00 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@host242.186-108-111.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:45:57 askatasuna [~askatasun@host242.186-108-111.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 19:46:07 -!- m104 [~m104@c-67-169-151-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 19:46:14 What do you think I should return if the iterator doesn't support the operation - like a read-only sequence shouldn't support (setf iterator-element). A function that errors out? 19:47:00 BTW: Your interpretation makes a lot of sense. 19:47:59 drmeister: signaling an error seems reasonable to me in that situationw 19:48:01 the thing was that in my brief foray into extensible sequences i special cased vectors and lists anyway, and didn't call m-s-i... 19:51:35 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:52:43 they aren't necessarily generic functions, no 19:52:51 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:52:52 there's a generic implementation, but you can specialize 19:52:59 and, yes, functions that error 19:56:30 Got it - thank you. 19:56:53 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:57:29 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.79.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:58:39 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 20:00:40 -!- ndrei_ [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:00:54 ndrei_ [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 20:03:02 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:03:41 stanislav_ [~stanislav@bl16-78-131.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:05:13 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:05:58 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-5.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:06:29 -!- stanislav [~stanislav@bl16-78-131.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:07:31 mirko` [~user@cpe-74-76-186-173.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:08:02 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@c-76-100-118-99.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: jangle] 20:14:39 -!- izirku [~izirku@pool-173-71-18-32.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:15:17 nug700 [~nug700@184-98-184-249.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:19 luis`: ping 20:16:15 wall [~wall@ip92-101-243-53.onego.ru] has joined #lisp 20:17:46 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 20:17:49 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:19:12 -!- levy [~levy@catv-89-135-132-203.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Távozom] 20:20:03 jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:53 -!- wall [~wall@ip92-101-243-53.onego.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:24:19 wall [~wall@ip92-101-243-53.onego.ru] has joined #lisp 20:25:09 -!- moto9 [~ml@p3E9E0C5E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:25:15 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-27-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:25:51 WarWeasle [~bbeer@172.242.21.170] has joined #lisp 20:26:13 Krystof: ping 20:26:20 So while I was thinking about it I came up with some cognitave dissonance between the way C++ does things and the way "CL User-extensible sequences" would do things. 20:26:27 The first thing I'm trying to expose is some iterators for a C++ class called CXXRecordDecl - it's an Abstract-Syntax-Tree node in Clang that represents a C++ struct/class. C++ struct(s)/class(es) can inherit from other struct/class as virtual inheritance and regular inheritance. 20:26:37 You iterate over them using CXXRecordDecl::bases_begin()/bases_end() and CXXRecordDecl::vbases_begin()/vbases_end() - no problem in C++. 20:26:40 Are there any existing algorithms to turn C function/class names to lisp type names? 20:26:48 What do you think is the SEQUENCE object that I pass to the MAKE-SEQUENCE-ITERATOR? Also #'ITERATOR-STEP, #'ITERATOR-ENDp functions? 20:26:57 It occurs to me as I type this up that if I have a CXXRecordDecl instance xxx that I need a CL user extensible sequence class called 'cxxrecord-decl-bases and another 'cxxrecord-decl-vbases and the thing I mass to MAKE-SEQUENCE-ITERATOR and the other functions is the instance (let's call it xxx-seq) that (make-instance 'cxxrecord-decl-bases :object xxx) returns. 20:27:05 Also, #'iterator-step and #'iterator-endp don't need access to xxx-seq because everything they need is embodied in the iterator state/limit-state and from-end returned by MAKE-SEQUENCE-ITERATOR. 20:27:12 Do you have any thoughts/insights that might illuminate this more? 20:27:19 Another question: When you call MAKE-SEQUENCE-ITERATOR on a CONS object, the #'iterator-step, #'iterator-endp don't need the CONS object sequence to iterate - do you still pass the original CONS object to them or is nil sufficient? This looks like the situation I have above wrt #'iterator-step not needing xxx-seq to iterate because everything is in iterator state/limit-state/limit-state 20:27:36 WarWeasle: Sorry - I have one written in C++ if you want it. 20:28:14 drmeister: I can translate. Swig is not swigging enough for me. What I could really use is lisp code to parse c++ include files. 20:28:50 WarWeasle: Here's what I use: https://gist.github.com/anonymous/ef57413a9a3d7739040d 20:29:17 drmeister: Thanks! 20:29:36 WarWeasle: It converts things like STARprintPrettySTAR --> *print-pretty* 20:30:18 The one thing you could add to it that I've been meaning to is to not convert CXXRecordDecl to cxxrecord-decl but rather cxx-record-decl. 20:32:47 <|3b|> WarWeasle: i think https://github.com/rpav/c2ffi parses c++ headers (not pure lisp though, uses clang) 20:33:12 drmeister: It's a good start. You've already solved most the problem so that will save me time. 20:33:44 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@c-24-7-64-162.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:33:44 -!- zygentoma [~kvirc@213-66-93-185-no49.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 20:38:12 -!- wall [~wall@ip92-101-243-53.onego.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:38:42 wall [~wall@ip92-101-243-53.onego.ru] has joined #lisp 20:38:48 moto9 [~ml@p3E9E0554.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:38:56 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:43 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-27-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:40:02 zickzackv [~faot@p5DDB0B60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:41:08 zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.141.202] has joined #lisp 20:41:24 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:42:01 -!- add^_ [~user@m176-70-201-0.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:42:04 hi, when I use (defparameter *x* nil) and then bind it with (let ((*x* (make-hash-table)) ...) etc., does it matter where in source code defparameter is relative to let? 20:43:34 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@p5DDC458B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:43:38 hint - shouldn't all defparameters go first? 20:44:40 defparameter should go first, to make it special, yes 20:44:42 That would depend on if you care about the difference in semantics between the two cases. 20:45:32 what's the semantical difference? 20:45:42 if the let comes first *x* will be a lexical variable. 20:46:12 I see. so functions called within LET will see whatever global defparameter is set to, innit? 20:47:36 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:59 anyway, thx. I always want defparameter first then for special variables 20:48:15 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 20:49:00 -!- gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:49:35 gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:53:47 -!- cross [~cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:54:29 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:55:05 -!- jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 20:56:04 cross [~cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:25 -!- cross [~cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:56:52 cross [~cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:49 -!- cross [~cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:58:22 cross [~cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:37 zygentoma [~kvirc@213-66-93-185-no49.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 21:04:23 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-95-112.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:05:37 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:505b:d1d0:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:10:24 KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9EC63.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:15:05 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:20 amaron [~amaron@cable-178-148-241-98.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 21:16:45 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:17:01 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 21:17:38 -!- zophy_ [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:17:49 <|3b|> minion: memo for beach: http://metamodular.com/CLOS-MOP/the-defclass-macro.html has markup in the title 21:17:50 Remembered. I'll tell beach when he/she/it next speaks. 21:19:58 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:20:13 -!- tadni` [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:22:01 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 21:22:14 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@91.177.253.126] has joined #lisp 21:22:20 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@91.177.253.126] has quit [Changing host] 21:22:20 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 21:31:34 kristof [~Kristoffe@162-236-113-137.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:41 -!- kristof [~Kristoffe@162-236-113-137.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:31:41 kristof [~Kristoffe@unaffiliated/kristof] has joined #lisp 21:40:04 zophy_ [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:04 zophy [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:43 -!- zophy_ [~venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:41:39 Twipply [~Twipply3@cpc17-mapp10-2-0-cust179.12-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:17 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.80.30] has joined #lisp 21:46:15 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:47:30 tadni [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:52:29 -!- bege_ is now known as bege 21:54:40 francogrex [~user@91.182.141.47] has joined #lisp 21:54:54 TeMPOraL [~user@89-72-198-137.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 21:55:53 hi there; any idea how to parse unicode characters using cl-ppcre? I want to split string into words, but words may contain some UTF-8 characters 21:56:12 ? :) can't figure it out from the docs 21:57:29 TeMPOraL: it should only be a function of which Lisp you are using, whether it has Unicode support or not 21:58:58 TeMPOraL: (cl-ppcre:scan "é*t" "automne hiver printemps éééé*t !" ) --> 29 31 #() #() ; there's nothing to do! 21:59:23 -!- zickzackv [~faot@p5DDB0B60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:59:33 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5DCA37F2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:59:41 (cl-ppcre:scan "é*t" "automne hiver printemps éééét !" ) --> 24 30 #() #() 22:00:18 -!- francogrex [~user@91.182.141.47] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:00:21 TeMPOraL: http://www.cliki.net/CloserLookAtCharacters 22:01:13 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:14 pjb: thanks :) 22:01:23 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 22:01:26 I'm looking for \w equivalent from Perl 22:01:35 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:01:38 or something that will allow me to split string on non-word-or-letter character 22:01:47 TeMPOraL: cl-ppcre is PERL regexp! 22:01:56 There's no need for an equivalent \w will work! 22:02:15 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 22:02:40 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 22:03:08 pjb: ok, thanks :) I thought (from docs) that cl-ppcre doesn't support it 22:03:28 Well, I don't know. If it's in the doc, that should be right. 22:03:36 will try it in a sec 22:03:36 What does \w do in perl? 22:04:01 Abby29 [~Abby29@77.231.59.198] has joined #lisp 22:04:03 I give you some pictures. I hope you like! http://bit.do/my_videos69 22:04:20 Xach didn't you ban him? 22:04:51 -!- Abby29 [~Abby29@77.231.59.198] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:05:36 pjb: thanks 22:05:38 it works! 22:05:39 :) 22:06:03 (cl-ppcre:scan "\\w+" " été automne hiver printemps été") --> 1 4 #() #() ; works well too. 22:07:30 -!- amaron [~amaron@cable-178-148-241-98.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:12:09 -!- hiroaki [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-218-254.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:12:11 -!- ldionmarcil [~louis@unaffiliated/maden] has quit [Quit: Goodbye] 22:12:27 ldionmarcil [~louis@98.143.212.102] has joined #lisp 22:12:27 -!- ldionmarcil [~louis@98.143.212.102] has quit [Changing host] 22:12:27 ldionmarcil [~louis@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #lisp 22:14:10 -!- tmitt_ [~stephengr@host-68-169-146-178.BROOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:16:02 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:14 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:17:15 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-223-59.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:19:06 kaygun [~kaygun@85.96.86.211] has joined #lisp 22:20:38 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:20:50 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:22:25 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-223-59.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:30 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 22:23:16 -!- seangrov` [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:55 tmitt [~stephengr@host-68-169-146-178.BROOLT2.epbfi.com] has joined #lisp 22:24:47 Is there any way to export symbols other way than writing export foo, export bar? 22:25:01 For example, export EVERYTHING? ;) 22:25:38 do-symbols 22:27:32 hiroaki [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-218-254.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 22:28:00 tkd_ [~tomek@ogbunabali.wa.ht] has joined #lisp 22:28:09 "everything" is going to include a lot of internal variables and such 22:28:13 -!- tkd_ [~tomek@ogbunabali.wa.ht] has quit [Client Quit] 22:28:32 -!- tkd [~tomek@ogbunabali.wa.ht] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:28:47 tkd [~tomek@ogbunabali.wa.ht] has joined #lisp 22:29:05 how about export everything not starting with % and such? 22:29:30 hope you don't have any (let ((foo ...)) ...) 22:33:01 I see 22:33:26 it's bad idea. 22:36:03 jchelary [~jchelary@pl603.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:36:03 -!- kaygun [~kaygun@85.96.86.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:38:20 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:39:21 -!- tkd [~tomek@ogbunabali.wa.ht] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 22:39:28 tkd [~tomek@ogbunabali.wa.ht] has joined #lisp 22:42:38 -!- kristof [~Kristoffe@unaffiliated/kristof] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:43:30 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 22:46:44 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:46:57 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 22:47:37 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.18.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:47:57 Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:29 Watcher7 [~w@108.218.1.96] has joined #lisp 22:48:35 -!- zygentoma [~kvirc@213-66-93-185-no49.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 22:50:59 -!- jchelary [~jchelary@pl603.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:52:41 -!- tadni [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:53:12 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.66.78] has joined #lisp 22:56:11 fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317577.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:01:58 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 23:03:35 tadni [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:05:01 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 23:05:19 -!- tkd [~tomek@ogbunabali.wa.ht] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:05:36 tkd [~tomek@ogbunabali.wa.ht] has joined #lisp 23:07:10 -!- hiroaki [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-218-254.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:08:51 gmcastil [~user@50.243.139.203] has joined #lisp 23:11:36 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 23:16:52 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:10 otwieracz: what you could do is this: (pprint `(defpackage "YOUR-PACKAGE" (:use "CL") (:export . #.(let (l) (do-symbols (s "YOUR-PACKAGE") (push s l)) (mapcar 'symbol-name (remove-duplicates l)))))) and edit the resulting form. 23:18:28 You may add a (sort  'string<) to help. 23:18:33 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:19:32 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: ZzZZZzz] 23:20:29 jchelary [~jchelary@pl603.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:24:36 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: experience finished because execution expired] 23:25:38 -!- tadni [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:25:57 jaccas [~pjfcl@3.182.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 23:26:47 bassclide [~bassclide@118.129.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 23:29:54 tadni [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:30:58 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:9099:646:9735:c6ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:32:26 EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:251d:8823:4b87:622] has joined #lisp 23:32:38 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:32:43 -!- tadni [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:32:54 tadni [~user@75-132-18-215.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:34:29 -!- tmitt [~stephengr@host-68-169-146-178.BROOLT2.epbfi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:34:48 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:505b:d1d0:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 23:35:16 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 23:41:55 -!- jchelary [~jchelary@pl603.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:42:42 WarWeasle: Are you still online? 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