00:00:14 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFE2E5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:00:59 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 00:06:11 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:07:47 -!- zickzackv [~faot@p5DDB0B60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:17:14 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.10.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:17:52 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.10.226] has joined #lisp 00:19:39 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:22:05 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.10.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:22:34 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:24:09 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.88.158] has joined #lisp 00:27:00 -!- theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has left #lisp 00:27:06 *Xach* feels the excitement of saturday night lisp hacking! 00:28:24 Mmm. I've just thought of a possibly awesome new project, with a potential user base in the... low teens at best? 00:28:57 when you've tasted dozens of users like me it's hard to go back 00:29:14 nyef: do tell 00:29:32 fe[nl]ix: I did. In #sbcl. 00:30:41 Basically, it's a tool for checking for evidence of one specific problem that we encounter in maintaining SBCL. 00:30:57 -!- vaporatorius [~vaporator@198.Red-83-44-135.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:32:12 Guest35013 [~db@h95-155-207-37.dynamic.se.alltele.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:17 Uppity users? 00:32:28 VOP parameter lifetimes. 00:32:43 Uppity users are typically fairly obvious. 00:33:34 VOP parameter lifetimes are more of a "why on earth is this dying during cold init somewhere under INTEGER-DECODE-SINGLE-FLOAT? 00:35:33 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:c698:a1d0:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:43:11 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.217.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:48:55 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:50:16 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.10.226] has joined #lisp 00:50:56 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:54:34 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.10.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:57:47 LiamH [~none@96.231.217.60] has joined #lisp 00:58:31 -!- Shinmera_ [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Zzz] 01:01:42 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 01:05:33 -!- kristof [~Kristoffe@unaffiliated/kristof] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:06:50 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:09:22 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 01:13:29 -!- Bike [~aeshtaer@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:13:57 Ethan- [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:16:43 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.16.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:17:33 oxum [~oxum@122.164.208.162] has joined #lisp 01:18:35 Bike [~aeshtaer@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 01:23:36 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:24:01 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:43 -!- jhao [~junhao@pool-72-76-190-214.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jhao] 01:39:19 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:44 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:42:03 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:44:27 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.10.226] has joined #lisp 01:44:36 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:44:53 zxq9 [~ceverett@FL9-125-199-207-150.okn.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 01:47:56 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:48:25 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.10.226] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 01:54:55 What's the current "done thing" in terms of CL test frameworks? 01:55:00 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 01:56:04 kristof [~Kristoffe@162-236-113-137.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:56:05 My own research says that FiveAM is too early to get started on anything, and that while Stefil has some interesting ideas it should be mined for ideas, not used. 01:56:45 -!- kristof [~Kristoffe@162-236-113-137.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:56:45 kristof [~Kristoffe@unaffiliated/kristof] has joined #lisp 01:56:56 (I can't use the framework that I defined for the (symbol-value '*dayjob*) for various reasons.) 01:59:08 jhao [~junhao@pool-72-76-190-214.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:22 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:01:37 VOP? 02:01:51 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 02:02:30 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 02:02:58 "Virtual OPeration". 02:03:45 It's basically a small fragment of the compiler that knows how to encode a specific operation as assembly language code. 02:04:12 wow. google didn't get a hit on that, at least not on the first page. 02:04:15 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:04:22 ah. 02:05:10 https://www.google.com/#q=sbcl+vop shows a couple of good hints within the first page of results. 02:06:25 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:40 Heh. "multiple-value-blog1". 02:07:47 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:10:45 if i have a list of lists, where each sublist is of the form (number letter) (e.g., ((1 X)(2 Y)(5 W))), how can i search the list for a specific sublist (.e.g, (1 X))? 02:11:06 (find '(1 Y) '((1 Y)(2 W)(1 X))) doesn't work 02:11:10 :test #'equal 02:12:12 Bike: what function would that :test be in? 02:12:19 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.88.158] has left #lisp 02:13:55 yates: X is not a letter. It is a symbol. 02:14:09 s/letter/symbol/ 02:14:17 letters are characters. In CL, literal characters can be read using the following syntax #\x 02:14:41 FIND is good with :test. 02:14:56 Any other sequence function, as you wish or need, take a :test. 02:15:09 Perhaps you could browse the clhs? 02:15:23 i am 02:15:29 yates: find 02:15:58 right. i missed it - sorry 02:18:22 So... no advice on test frameworks? 02:19:00 -!- jhao [~junhao@pool-72-76-190-214.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jhao] 02:19:08 -!- dyreshark [dyreshark@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedb:3628] has left #lisp 02:20:31 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:21:05 m104 [~m104@c-67-169-151-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:28 jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:23:03 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p578FCF96.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:23:24 jhao [~junhao@pool-72-76-190-214.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:27:32 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:28:52 zophy [venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:37 nyef: when I needed to test a package, I wrote my own simple test framework. 02:32:13 Basically, I just write (defun test/something () (assert (something)) :success)  (defun test () (test/something) (test/something2)  (test/somethingN)) (test). 02:32:47 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:34:04 n0n0 [~n0n0___@32.157.111.86] has joined #lisp 02:35:10 nyef: pjb's pretty right, but if you really need a testing framework with all the bells and fixtures (ah, the punniness!) then there's FiveAM 02:36:32 Fair enough. I wrote my own setup for the $dayjob, but I don't want to rip that one off for my personal work at this time. 02:41:25 These days I'm finding that I tend to think in terms of small, testable pieces of functionality that can be composed into actually useful behaviors, whereas before I'd have just started hacking to get the result that I wanted. I'm not sure if it's entirely an improvement, but in some circumstances having a good test suite is massively helpful. 02:42:06 You should probably use a framework 02:43:31 bitwize: Isn't that what I just said? 02:45:04 On the other hand, I don't want to WRITE another framework at this point. 02:45:23 I might just use SB-RT again for lack of any better suggestions. 02:47:13 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@32.157.111.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:47:20 prxq_ [~mommer@x2f6d797.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lisp 02:49:01 -!- gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:49:42 gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 02:50:29 -!- prxq [~mommer@x2f6baf6.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:54:29 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:55:26 Test frameworks may be more useful in cases such as eg. an Android application development, because of all the constraints you have on it: the rigidity of developing with Java and a big system framework, the fact that you're actually doing cross development (running code in an emulator on on the device), the fact that you basically need a sophisticated IDE to do the simpliest thing because everything is so complicated, and so on. 02:56:04 But unless you're developing at ITA software or at Allegro, I'm not sure you need anything fancy to test your lisp programs. 02:56:22 I recently walked a similar road and feel at least a litle silly for writing my own regression testing functions. The one cool thing I've been playing with that I didn't notice in the published offerings is a function which can watch the directory of the project and automatically run the tests in a background thread when I save a file. 02:56:34 <|3b|> probably also depends on what you are working on, some code has lots of external constraints to test regardless of language 02:56:47 I'm not saying that you don't need to write tests. 02:57:04 <|3b|> ah, 'framework' part you mean? 02:57:16 But also in my experience, the way you program tests often has to go outside of any framework, given what system you have to test. 02:57:27 joshe [~joshe@2001:470:e862::1:1] has joined #lisp 02:57:30 <|3b|> having things be automatic has value 02:57:48 For example, I am still to see a framework that could handle the end-to-end MTA/antivirus filter testing I had to do when I worked on antivir. 02:58:05 So I just programmed it in emacs lisp (it was before I switched 100% to CL). 02:59:01 I would advocate ad-hoc testing, because in general, I don't always write the same program. 03:03:16 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 03:07:51 So, in general, alter your testing strategy to suit the program that you're writing? 03:08:03 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:08:03 Yes. 03:09:22 For example, in some case, generating more or less exhaustive test data becomes an important of writing the tests. Often test frameworks lead you to duplicate testing code (one testXyz method per test), when you would rather just iterate generated data. 03:11:21 Mmm. But we have a full programming environment available to write our tests in, and one which has MACROLET, so we can generate however many testXyz methods/functions we want from a vector of test data. 03:11:34 (Or DEFMACRO, if you want to go that route.) 03:14:00 And then there's the difference between end-to-end tests which make sure that the system-as-a-whole behaves as desired and the micro-tests which make sure that individual functions behave as desired when plied with specific inputs. 03:17:33 patbarron1 [~pat@pool-173-75-28-121.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:18 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.236.183] has joined #lisp 03:18:18 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.236.183] has quit [Changing host] 03:18:18 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 03:20:59 -!- patbarron [~pat@lectroid.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:22:05 I guess I'll do things interactively for now, since my immediate goal is supposedly a one-off. 03:24:40 -!- patbarron1 is now known as patbarron 03:25:04 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 03:27:18 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 03:33:18 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:33:36 hargettp [~hargettp@c-76-119-232-173.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:35:38 n0n0 [~n0n0___@ip-64-134-225-253.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:30 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.217.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:42:50 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.10.226] has joined #lisp 03:43:21 -!- bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: bgs100] 03:45:04 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:47:19 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.10.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:47:44 chenjf [~chenjf@14.209.215.129] has joined #lisp 03:48:36 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.10.226] has joined #lisp 03:51:48 jpfuente_ [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:53:23 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.10.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:53:29 -!- jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:56:56 -!- Alfr [~Unknown@g225152020.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:58:06 LiamH [~none@vpn219118.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 04:03:01 -!- LiamH [~none@vpn219118.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:03:57 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 04:05:17 -!- jhao [~junhao@pool-72-76-190-214.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jhao] 04:07:45 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:08:45 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:14:31 so, I'm am reading data from a serial device but I will not know when or how many bytes I will receive at any given time. Any thoughts on whether I should use read-byte or read-sequence? 04:15:56 read sequence will wait until the given sequence is filled (I haven't discovered out to force it to return early) so that's why I ask 04:16:36 and I want the data as soon as it's available 04:17:48 -!- zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:19:29 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@ip-64-134-225-253.public.wayport.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:23:06 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 04:23:10 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:23:30 -!- jpfuente_ [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 04:28:54 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@c-76-119-232-173.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 04:28:59 you apparently can't use format to output a simple string - what is approriate? 04:29:10 i.e., (format "~S" "test") doesn't work 04:29:43 just "test" ??? 04:30:48 yates: are you trying to get a hello world with format working? 04:31:26 well, i'm trying to put out a simple test message at a ceratin point in a function 04:31:34 (format t "~S" "test") (format output-stream "~S" "test") (format nil "~S" "test") 04:31:41 yates: a good idea would be to read clhs 04:31:43 clhs format 04:31:43 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_format.htm 04:32:13 pjb: i AM reading it. 04:32:23 Good :-) 04:32:28 being imperfect, i miss things, forget things, etc. 04:32:45 Of course, it's a 1150-page book, you need to read it several times to remember it :-) 04:32:47 i keep forgetting that destination argument 04:32:53 -!- copec [~copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:32:56 in format, i.e. 04:33:18 copec_ [~copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has joined #lisp 04:33:18 -!- copec_ [~copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:34:18 copec [~copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has joined #lisp 04:34:47 -!- Bike [~aeshtaer@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:35:45 pjb: yes, i'll try to finish it tonight... 04:37:26 Bike [~aeshtaer@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 04:39:17 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:39:18 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 04:43:08 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.132.81] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:43:12 nydel_ [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-ctsmdvghgdphhuyz] has joined #lisp 04:43:12 mikaelj_ [~tic@c83-248-1-14.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 04:43:13 sfa_ [~sfa@208.66.156.12] has joined #lisp 04:43:19 ``Erik_ [~erik@pool-74-103-94-19.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:43:25 drl [~lat@125.167.132.81] has joined #lisp 04:43:29 -!- ``Erik [~erik@pool-74-103-94-19.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 04:43:37 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.225.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 04:43:38 -!- sfa [~sfa@208.66.156.12] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 04:43:38 -!- nydel [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-lixtkrtjqzdjvfrm] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 04:43:44 -!- mikaelj [~tic@c83-248-1-14.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 04:44:17 i have a list of lists of the form, e.g., ((1 (1 x)(3 y))(2 (4 w))...) 04:45:44 scratch that 04:46:05 i have a list of lists of the form, e.g., (1 (1 x)(3 y)) 04:46:36 how would i determine if a list (1 x) is in that list, and if so, increment the first element in the list 04:46:36 ? 04:46:50 in-place? 04:46:56 i.e., incf-ish 04:47:32 doh 04:47:33 (let ((found (find '(1 x) lists :test #'equal))) (when found (incf (first found)))) 04:47:33 nm 04:48:18 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.225.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 04:48:42 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.10.226] has joined #lisp 04:49:16 Bike: wouldn't that produce (2 x)? 04:49:43 -!- frxx [frx@93-139-111-97.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:49:49 it would return that, yes, but aren't you calling this for effect. 04:50:10 i would want (1 (1 x)(3 y)) to be translated to (2 (1 x)(3 y)) 04:50:43 ok, i see now. 04:50:56 it helps to just ask the question - now i see how to do it 04:51:20 wait, no i don't see how to do it... 04:51:24 beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-138-146.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 04:51:32 Good morning everyone! 04:51:43 Hello beach. 04:51:44 well, map what i wrote ovre the elements of the list or something 04:51:58 (not morning here for about eight more minutes.) 04:52:35 nyef: I agree with pjb. A test framework gives little help, and I find myself often having to do tests that are not supported in whatever framework I pick. 04:53:35 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.10.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:54:36 One of my favorite testing strategies for some data structures is to write a trivial but slow implementation of the operations, then generate random sequences of operations and compare the two results. 04:55:43 But this might be a call for a more extensible standard framework than a call for not using a standard framework. 04:55:44 Combined with a coverage test, such a testing strategy is very effective and not terribly hard to accomplish. But it is not supported in the frameworks I have looked at. 04:56:11 nyef: Sure, if you can figure out how to do such a thing, great! 04:57:44 frxx [frx@93-141-16-139.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 04:57:52 -!- kristof is now known as Christina 04:58:58 -!- Christina is now known as christie 05:00:29 And there's also the question of testing style vs. testing framework. A random testing approach is typically used to find defects after something has been built, while a test-driven development approach is used to define how the right thing behaves (at a low level) and then to implement it. 05:00:45 Two rather different processes. 05:01:32 Looks right. 05:01:53 The second one is not a unit test. 05:02:11 -!- christie is now known as kristof 05:02:20 I'd argue that the second one IS a unit test, and the first one is more questionable. 05:02:29 Hmm. 05:02:38 Unit tests are an inherent part of tdd. 05:02:58 The first one needs to be rewritten when the unit is implemented differently, but the second one should not have to. 05:03:37 The random tester approach is a statistical thing. 05:03:43 I must have a different idea of what "unit test" means. 05:03:54 beach: The second one needs to be rewritten, if the unit extensionally changes. 05:04:02 Both approaches can be behavioral... 05:04:46 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 05:04:53 Interesting questions. The difficulties probably give a hint as to why it is hard to come up with a general testing framework. 05:05:02 One of the questions here is "when is a test a unit test, and when is it not?", which ties into the question of "what are the boundaries of a ``unit''". 05:05:17 Indeed. 05:06:40 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:07:28 zajn [~zajn@pool-71-189-154-86.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:01 A goodly portion of my current testing approach involves rewriting the FDEFINITIONs of various function names with temporary versions that check arguments and supply fixed results, and verifying that the object under test (typically a single function) behaves "correctly". 05:09:15 bitwize: Explain what you mean by "extensionally changes", please! 05:09:27 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:09:53 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.202.247] has joined #lisp 05:10:09 And this is because I don't have any other good mechanism for dependency injection of mock objects in what is primarily an imperative-functional paradigm. 05:10:29 nyef: Sounds like a good idea. 05:11:10 It is, and it isn't. Remember that functions within the same compilation unit are permitted an awful lot of leeway in terms of referring to each other. 05:11:36 -!- zajn [~zajn@pool-71-189-154-86.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:12:13 And my current mechanism turns out to be too low-level in the presence of multiple calls. I end up with "recursive" mock functions (they end up replacing themselves with a successor mock). 05:12:18 Heh, yes, there are some interesting traps to fall into there. 05:12:41 zajn [~zajn@pool-71-177-17-217.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:12:43 -!- m104 [~m104@c-67-169-151-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 05:13:04 So, my current approach was awesome for about a year to a year and a half, and then I finally ran into a case where it broke down. 05:16:37 -!- zajn [~zajn@pool-71-177-17-217.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:18:13 pierpa [~user@95.236.58.43] has joined #lisp 05:22:10 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 05:24:23 jocke_pirat [~user@c-75-73-84-128.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:26:15 One of the main things about testing, though, is automation. If your tests aren't automated then you're going to forget to run some of them, decide not to run some of them, or misinterpret the results of some of them. 05:27:00 Indeed. 05:28:58 And the quicker your test suite runs, the better. Ideally, you should be able to run it at each commit and not even notice the time loss unless a test fails... in which case your commit can reasonably be argued to be broken anyway. 05:31:26 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-223-59.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:32:13 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:32:19 -!- jocke_pirat [~user@c-75-73-84-128.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:32:29 alezost [~user@128-70-204-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:34:15 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-223-59.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:37:17 bjz_ [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #lisp 05:38:34 zajn [~zajn@pool-71-189-107-163.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:38:36 -!- bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:38:44 are parameters passed by reference or by value in cl? 05:39:32 nm 05:39:32 -!- chenjf [~chenjf@14.209.215.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:39:42 probably not relevent, now that i look at it again. 05:40:21 -!- kristof [~Kristoffe@unaffiliated/kristof] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:40:33 -!- drl [~lat@125.167.132.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:41:17 chenjf [~chenjf@113.95.105.182] has joined #lisp 05:42:07 beach` [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-236-135.w109-215.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 05:43:42 They're passed by value, but a great number of values are references. 05:44:15 (That is, a great number of values are references to mutable structures.) 05:44:23 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-138-146.w90-38.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:44:32 -!- beach` is now known as beach 05:51:54 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-184-8.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:52:05 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:53:35 drl [~lat@125.162.193.232] has joined #lisp 05:55:48 -!- yates [~user@nc-67-232-27-161.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.1] 05:57:20 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.232.23] has joined #lisp 05:57:22 jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:00:55 I believe that I have exceeded my runtime for tonight. 06:00:59 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-145-64.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 06:04:33 -!- CrazyEddy [~gain@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:04:43 -!- patbarron [~pat@pool-173-75-28-121.pitbpa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Exiting HexChat] 06:05:31 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 06:06:48 -!- jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-102-185.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 06:08:07 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:08:24 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 06:10:37 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:19:40 yates [~user@nc-67-232-27-161.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 06:19:51 -!- drl [~lat@125.162.193.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:20:32 is it true that the argument to a predicate function provided to position-if will be filled with each item in the list the position-if is being run against? 06:20:48 iteratively, i.e. 06:21:57 yates, What? Are you asking if the function will be called on each element? 06:22:21 yes 06:22:30 s/item/element/ 06:22:45 It will call it until it finds one. 06:22:59 gotcha 06:23:14 yates: Are you a beginner programmer? 06:26:00 not really 06:26:20 beginner in lisp, yeah, i guess. 06:26:43 beach: why? 06:27:07 yates: In what programming language that you already know does one use the terminology that a "function is filled with" an object? 06:27:58 are we that tight-assed here that a wee bit of colloqualism isn't tolerated? 06:28:11 was my meaning unclear? 06:28:33 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:28:47 well, yes. 06:28:55 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 06:28:59 a colloquialism is something that is colloquially understood, and all 06:29:02 and i didn't say that a function was filled with an object. 06:31:48 jewel [~jewel@105-237-68-160.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:32:05 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:32:38 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:33:09 n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:5d8f:b7fc:8257:692f] has joined #lisp 06:33:50 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:36:08 drl [~lat@125.162.193.232] has joined #lisp 06:37:04 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:38:15 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:41:51 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:48:09 -!- zajn [~zajn@pool-71-189-107-163.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: zajn] 06:48:59 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:53:58 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 06:57:24 ggole [~ggole@124-148-70-119.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 07:02:23 -!- qsun [~qsun@27-32-60-26.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:02:39 qsun [~qsun@27-32-60-26.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:03:35 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:06:11 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 07:07:02 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:11:02 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:11:15 -!- zophy [venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:14:13 -!- bjz_ [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:17:04 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 07:17:16 bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #lisp 07:21:48 -!- bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:24:29 bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #lisp 07:24:33 -!- bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:29:29 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:31:49 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 07:34:25 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 07:36:18 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Client Quit] 07:36:36 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 07:40:59 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:42:02 -!- neoncortex [~neoncorte@unaffiliated/xispirito] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:43:47 znode [~Z.Node@61.143.60.83] has joined #lisp 07:45:50 -!- GuilOooo [~GuilOooo@mlir.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:47:07 GuilOooo [~GuilOooo@mlir.info] has joined #lisp 07:55:04 -!- yates [~user@nc-67-232-27-161.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.1] 07:58:39 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 08:02:35 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 08:03:01 znode_ [~Z.Node@61.143.60.83] has joined #lisp 08:03:30 znode__ [~Z.Node@61.143.60.83] has joined #lisp 08:03:53 -!- znode [~Z.Node@61.143.60.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:03:58 znode___ [~Z.Node@61.143.60.83] has joined #lisp 08:04:26 znode____ [~Z.Node@61.143.60.83] has joined #lisp 08:06:59 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 08:07:33 -!- znode_ [~Z.Node@61.143.60.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:07:39 -!- znode__ [~Z.Node@61.143.60.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:08:38 -!- znode___ [~Z.Node@61.143.60.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:09:03 -!- znode____ [~Z.Node@61.143.60.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 08:09:04 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.232.23] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 08:09:52 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.246.19] has joined #lisp 08:11:48 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:11:58 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 08:15:26 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-27-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:15:40 MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:22:25 bassclide [~bassclide@118.129.broadband13.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 08:26:25 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 08:30:40 bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #lisp 08:32:04 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:38:03 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:42:48 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.10.226] has joined #lisp 08:47:21 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.10.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:48:46 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.10.226] has joined #lisp 08:49:16 -!- jackdaniel [~jack@hellsgate.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:51:39 CrazyEddy [~Solenodon@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 08:53:03 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.10.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:54:19 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.13.202.247] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:55:18 diadara_ [~diadara@202.78.172.162] has joined #lisp 08:55:25 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:57:51 cheier [~cheier@c-98-251-147-85.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:59:22 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:07:51 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 09:09:03 dmiles [~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:09:29 -!- GuilOooo [~GuilOooo@mlir.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:09:41 GuilOooo [~GuilOooo@mlir.info] has joined #lisp 09:10:21 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:10:54 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 09:12:23 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:13:03 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:13:26 evenson [~user@77.119.133.59.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has joined #lisp 09:13:48 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 09:16:11 -!- Watcher7 [~w@108.218.0.100] has quit [Quit: h] 09:20:59 -!- nipra [~nipra@122.177.226.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:26:40 STilda [kvirc@37.139.167.3] has joined #lisp 09:29:54 CADD_ [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has joined #lisp 09:29:59 -!- CADD_ [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has quit [Client Quit] 09:32:45 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:5d8f:b7fc:8257:692f] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:36:27 n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:5d8f:b7fc:8257:692f] has joined #lisp 09:37:57 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-27-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:41:35 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:41:40 -!- ggole [~ggole@124-148-70-119.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 09:47:29 -!- bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:48:04 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 09:48:45 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.10.226] has joined #lisp 09:50:06 bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #lisp 09:53:15 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.10.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:54:02 round-robin [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has joined #lisp 09:55:22 -!- Bike [~aeshtaer@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:56:48 Bike [~aeshtaer@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 09:59:59 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:5d8f:b7fc:8257:692f] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:02:37 -!- cheier [~cheier@c-98-251-147-85.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:03:21 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-27-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:03:27 arademaker [~user@sein2.ut.ee] has joined #lisp 10:04:48 -!- clog [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:08:32 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 10:10:36 -!- doomlord__ [~servitor@host86-160-0-80.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:13:36 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:16:39 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-157-59.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Coyote finally caught me] 10:16:59 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:c698:a1d0:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 10:19:42 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:23:19 -!- Bike [~aeshtaer@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:24:45 Bike [~aeshtaer@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 10:26:13 CADD_ [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has joined #lisp 10:26:48 -!- arademaker [~user@sein2.ut.ee] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:27:27 -!- CADD_ [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:28:56 zickzackv [~faot@p5DDB0B60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:29:01 -!- milosn [~milosn@94.12.79.143] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:29:28 milosn [~milosn@94.12.79.143] has joined #lisp 10:31:12 since when is sb-bsd-sockets a dependency of clx ? 10:31:35 vaporatorius [~vaporator@198.Red-83-44-135.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:33:14 -!- Bike [~aeshtaer@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:35:01 Bike [~aeshtaer@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 10:36:22 -!- diadara_ [~diadara@202.78.172.162] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:36:50 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:42:58 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.10.226] has joined #lisp 10:45:23 KaiQ [~localhost@p578FCFA8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:45:30 -!- evenson [~user@77.119.133.59.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:45:50 -!- Bike [~aeshtaer@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:47:39 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.10.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:48:27 Krystof_ [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 10:48:40 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.10.226] has joined #lisp 10:49:29 doomlord_ [~servitor@host86-160-0-80.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 10:50:15 patrickwonders_ [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 10:50:33 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:50:35 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:52:20 Bike [~aeshtaer@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 10:52:59 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.10.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:53:27 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:53:28 -!- patrickwonders_ is now known as patrickwonders 10:54:37 -!- stanislav [~stanislav@188.251.56.164] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:54:46 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:54:53 stanislav [~stanislav@188.251.56.164] has joined #lisp 10:55:21 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:57:57 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:59:11 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 11:00:33 -!- Bike [~aeshtaer@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:03:20 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:05:07 Bike [~aeshtaer@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 11:07:07 nha_ [~prefect@koln-4db41f52.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:07:41 evenson [~user@77.119.133.59.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has joined #lisp 11:08:03 -!- round-robin [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has left #lisp 11:09:15 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 11:09:43 -!- bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:11:11 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:12:19 -!- Urchin[emacs] [~user@unaffiliated/urchin] has quit [Quit: bye] 11:12:26 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 11:12:31 bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #lisp 11:14:07 -!- ``Erik_ is now known as ``Erik 11:14:37 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:17:37 -!- vaporatorius [~vaporator@198.Red-83-44-135.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 11:18:05 pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 11:20:00 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-27-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:29:39 -!- Bike [~aeshtaer@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:35:37 liqu0rice [~niklas@brln-4dbc23fd.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:36:19 -!- pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 11:36:37 -!- _5kg [~zifeitong@60.191.2.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:39:55 am testing the 0.9.6 version of mcclim against the same behaviour regarding the string widths w/o spaces 11:40:07 there it is correct.... 11:40:14 -!- bassclide [~bassclide@118.129.broadband13.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:40:33 you've been already told that you're using proportional fonts 11:43:50 jaccas [~pjfcl@3.182.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 11:46:33 -!- harish [~harish@175.156.193.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:48:05 setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.241] has joined #lisp 11:51:19 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:53:41 werebutt [~buttbutt@109.201.154.163] has joined #lisp 11:53:44 -!- werebutt [~buttbutt@109.201.154.163] has left #lisp 11:55:21 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:55:59 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:58:23 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:59:57 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:01:19 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 12:01:29 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 12:03:33 zajn [~zajn@pool-71-177-17-217.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:04:04 harish [~harish@175.156.193.24] has joined #lisp 12:04:57 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 12:05:15 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:06:46 ggole [~ggole@124-148-70-119.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 12:07:36 -!- p9f [~stian@arachnotron.sletner.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:08:00 -!- liqu0rice [~niklas@brln-4dbc23fd.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:10:01 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 12:12:04 foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-099-255-229.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:12:52 Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 12:15:01 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:18:27 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-161-165.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:19:09 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-159-149.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:22:49 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:26:08 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:26:38 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 12:28:54 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:31:02 -!- bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:31:21 bjz [~bjz@125.253.99.68] has joined #lisp 12:33:19 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 12:33:47 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 12:34:32 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:35:35 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 12:39:05 -!- zickzackv [~faot@p5DDB0B60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:42:50 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.10.226] has joined #lisp 12:44:30 zophy [venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 12:47:43 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.10.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:49:54 -!- evenson [~user@77.119.133.59.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:52:04 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:55:23 add^_ [~user@m5-241-186-97.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 12:56:34 nyef [~nyef@pool-64-222-145-64.man.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 12:56:39 Twipply [~Twipply3@cpc17-mapp10-2-0-cust179.12-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 12:57:04 G'morning all. 12:57:19 Hello there. 12:58:41 I'm considering learning common lisp 12:59:02 I think I need to understand more about what it is before confirming though 12:59:04 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 12:59:22 -!- aftershave [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 12:59:37 it's a general purpose interactive language 12:59:42 ... Would you say the same if you were considering learning knitting? 12:59:54 Just learn it, and see how it goes. It's not that hard to grok the basics 13:00:31 That's what I meant 13:00:38 I need to learn the basics before deciding to go into it fully 13:00:45 Besides, if you're a programmer, you should always be learning new languages. There shouldn't be much hesitation to start learning something new 13:00:50 Can I knit a standalone binary? 13:01:11 Twipply: what is your current programming experience? 13:01:16 -!- prxq_ is now known as prxq 13:01:20 Xach: I'm sure you can find some encoding and cobble up a reader for scarf storage 13:01:22 I've played with C for ~10 years as a hobby 13:01:29 Xach: only with needles still attached 13:01:30 Xach: Sure, do you want to use textured or two-color integer representation? 13:01:41 At most I'd consider myself intermediate, but that's pushing it. 13:01:46 -!- loke [~elias@2400:d803:7342:f91a:9c67:80a4:96f:eb3b] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:03:20 I wanted something 'different' to C in style/application maybe 13:03:34 I wouldn't want to put a bunch of time into C++ for example 13:04:03 Lisp is somewhat more similar to C in terms of functions & how they're called, albeit much more powerful. To get more out there, there's also Prolog, Haskell, Erlang, etc 13:04:18 which have pretty different base assumptions 13:04:30 If you just want 'different', have a quick look into Forth, Smalltalk, Prolog, Ocaml, Haskell, and... Intercal. 13:04:35 but knowing C would be a good launching point for learning Lisp 13:05:11 pmai [~user@178-27-29-81-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:05:13 I don't need something that's a total polar opposite 13:05:22 minion: Tell Twipply about PCL 13:05:22 Twipply: please see PCL: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 13:05:22 But I'll look at those, too. 13:05:50 Twipply: also, look at "a gentle introduction to symbolic computing" by D. Touretzky 13:06:02 Oh, and learn the assembly language for whatever machine you have. 13:06:04 I've been reading that one already. 13:06:06 liqu0rice [~niklas@brln-4dbc23fd.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:06:10 I've tried assembly before 13:06:14 or buy the book 'Land of Lisp', which is a gentle introduction to Common Lisp using game programming 13:06:19 Twipply: the touretzky one? 13:06:31 By Peter Seibel 13:06:42 Encountered it while googling 13:07:41 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:08:38 One thing I was wondering and haven't yet googled, is why Lisp seems to be popular among AI research? 13:08:45 I'm pretty sure I read that, at least. 13:09:02 Because it was originally invented by AI researchers. 13:09:07 that dates back to the 1950s. The inventor of Lisp was an AI researcher 13:09:11 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 13:09:21 That's what I was thinking 13:09:31 So there's no 'real' advantage to Lisp in that regard? 13:09:55 The advantage is that it can very easily deal with lists and trees of data, which was unprecedented at the time 13:10:03 i think Java is popular for AI researcher 13:10:06 research 13:10:31 jeronimo [~cgiirc@fantasy.ircgate.it] has joined #lisp 13:10:42 and that it is dirt simple for Lisp to generate Lisp code, for simple macro use or even as full-blown code generators 13:10:42 I've an interest in neural networks, so perhaps that'll be nice 13:10:45 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 13:11:31 NNs aren't much of a programming challenge, though. They're more a data challenge 13:11:45 Whatever language you use, grab a NN library and start configuring & throwing data into it 13:12:07 doesn't necessarily involve too mnay language decisions, besides the tail end where you have to integrate the data somewhere with something 13:12:21 I've made my own NNs before 13:12:25 I have a small aversion to third party libraries 13:12:41 I'd like to make my own wheel than use someone elses 13:12:43 well, Lisp is certainly about roll-your-own 13:12:48 even if I'm less productive in doing so 13:13:56 in fact, one complaint that people have about the Common Lisp ecosystem is that some of the libraries are kind of poor, simply because roll-your-own is often easier than putting out a decent library ;) 13:14:09 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:14:33 (though there are a lot of good, mature libs out there nowadays) 13:14:50 That's why I'm looking into CL instead of scheme 13:16:48 This seems to be harder to set up than C 13:17:08 which OS are you on? 13:17:32 Windows 13:17:39 everything is hard on windows 13:17:40 yeah, that's going to be a bit of a pain 13:17:52 I don't get an impression that it's very windows orientated 13:17:53 basically, you want Emacs, SLIME, and a lisp implementation 13:18:06 SBCL even tells me their windows port is fragile 13:18:21 If you're not doing threading, SBCL is good 13:18:22 sbcl is not lying 13:18:39 its support is recent, so some of the bigger downsides are getting a little out of date 13:18:53 Windows has had address space randomization since day one, pretty much, and SBCL doesn't deal with that too gracefully. 13:19:09 I'd recomment Clozure CL on Windows, if SBCL doesn't work out for you. CCL has been rock solid, just a bit slower. 13:19:26 *recommend 13:19:33 I'm used to downloading an IDE & compiler in one go, then hitting compile & run 13:19:52 ASM was also a pain 13:20:06 yeah, I guess you've not worked in Python or even BASIC or any interactive language 13:20:25 it's a different beast than edit-compile-execute 13:20:30 I also had most success with CCL on windows. 13:20:34 I tried out Python beliefly a few times 13:20:42 I really hate typing code into the... interpreter? 13:20:50 right, that's where emacs & slime come in 13:20:52 So I just used .py files constantly and ran them like that 13:20:58 but I can't seem to use a .lisp file 13:21:08 (load "lispfile.lisp") 13:21:34 I had a certain amount of success with SBCL on windows, but ended up moving back to using Linux for most of my programming. (-: 13:21:39 or, in emacs, Ctrl-C Ctrl-K when your cursor is in a file that you're editing. THat's why SLIME is good 13:21:59 (And, yes, you can blame me for the "kitten of death" message if it's still there.) 13:22:23 it isn't 13:22:27 the kitten of death ist tot 13:22:56 Aww... Poor death-kitten. 13:23:08 I'll have to add it into the ARM port, then. (-: 13:23:08 das kätzchen des todes ist tot!!1! 13:23:11 -!- jeronimo [~cgiirc@fantasy.ircgate.it] has quit [Quit: IRCGate CGI:IRC User] 13:23:22 I'm going to miss my double clicks 13:23:32 But at least I can use the up arrow to load the last input again 13:24:13 (alt-p and alt-n to go previous/next in history you mean) 13:24:30 you can freely cursor around the REPL buffer 13:24:31 I meant in SBCL I can use the up arrow to get the (load "...") back 13:24:35 rather than retyping it 13:24:43 You're in the terminal window? 13:24:46 Yeah 13:25:08 Yeah, that's fairly standard with the windows console subsystem, but it only lasts within the current session. 13:25:27 (At least, it did on WinXP.) 13:25:28 I wish I could just double click a .lisp file, but it'll do. 13:25:32 random hit on youtube: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VnWVu8VVDbI 13:25:36 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:25:40 it's worth it to configure a decent environment 13:25:54 You could make double-clicking a .lisp file work, it should just be some registry hacking. 13:26:11 Thanks for the video. 13:26:22 no idea if it's good 13:26:32 It being ~15 minutes long fills me with dread 13:27:05 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.35.17] has joined #lisp 13:27:34 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:30:00 -!- ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:44:03 hi all, I have code that runs a loop and executes read-byte on s serial stream. I've also written and seem examples of code where a serve-all-events call is executed within a loop and the event is passed to an fd-handler. I can't seem to see the advantage of the latter. I would perform an action based on an event, but both methods involve a loop which seems to amount to busy waiting. 13:44:46 anyone have a better way to do this? 13:45:20 In general, you don't want to mess with serve-event if you can avoid it. 13:45:45 Where serve-event is useful is when dealing with multiple I/O streams at once, particularly network I/O. 13:46:41 even then, you'd be better off with iolib 13:46:53 read-byte shouldn't busy wait. It should block until a byte or EOF is available. 13:48:31 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:48:37 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.10.226] has joined #lisp 13:52:55 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.10.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:59:04 mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.122] has joined #lisp 14:01:07 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 14:01:18 msmith: the difference would be where you're waiting. In the case of read-byte, it will not return until a byte is available (even if it doesn't busy wait, the cpu is relinquished to the OS). On the other hand, with "events", it works with select(2) or poll(2), and your even loop is still running, so you can do other processing while waiting for the bytes. 14:01:22 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: patrickwonders] 14:01:40 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 14:02:31 Alfr [~Unknown@e178255119.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:03:48 pjb: makes sense 14:05:05 jackdaniel [~jack@hellsgate.pl] has joined #lisp 14:06:11 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-27-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:11:58 -!- foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-099-255-229.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:13:14 nialo [~nialo@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:00 This is so awkward to use 14:18:14 I'm using something called LispIDE 14:18:31 I have to Ctrl a to select everything, then hit the 'send to lisp' button 14:18:35 to run the program 14:19:30 What do you want to do instead? 14:19:50 przl [~przlrkt@p57922519.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:19:50 I don't really know, I've been using Lisp for ~30 minutes now 14:19:54 I'm just not having a great time so far 14:21:10 Ok. With emacs and slime, you usually press C-c C-c or C-x C-e to send the current form to the Lisp system. 14:21:13 I like it that way. 14:21:49 -!- liqu0rice [~niklas@brln-4dbc23fd.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:21:58 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:22:27 then slime will tell emacs if there were any warnings or errors and highlight the forms in question. 14:22:48 I was getting a bunch of errors because I hadn't selected everything before sending it to Lisp 14:22:49 (not exactly, but the details don't matter too much) 14:23:04 Other times the exact same code would work because I accidentally sent it line by line over several attempts 14:23:34 I'll try it out eventually 14:23:38 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:24:09 http://xach.com/rpw3/articles/BJqdnd9R65ee3qDbnZ2dnUVZ_vGinZ2d%40speakeasy.net.html has some nice thoughts on setting up a comfortable editing environment 14:24:10 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:24:14 Maybe if I can ever port this ~40 lines of basic C to Lisp and have it work 14:24:51 Twipply: in general though, you shouldn't be "sending everything" each time you want to run your program 14:25:11 (unless you're building a standalone app) 14:26:23 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:28:34 I don't really know the proper way to do it just yet 14:28:47 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 14:28:49 I'm just fooling around trying to make something work 14:32:16 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 14:43:22 -!- prxq [~mommer@x2f6d797.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:43:48 prxq [~mommer@x2f6d797.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lisp 14:44:12 -!- Twipply [~Twipply3@cpc17-mapp10-2-0-cust179.12-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:44:39 Twipply [~Twipply3@cpc17-mapp10-2-0-cust179.12-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 14:45:08 -!- nha_ [~prefect@koln-4db41f52.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:48:41 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:49:30 wakeup [~user@xdsl-89-0-174-152.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:49:31 Hi 14:50:01 I have created a postmodern dao with a key of type bytea 14:50:13 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 14:50:56 column "feed" is of type bytea but expression is of type integer[] 14:51:09 I get this when supplying e-g- #(42) as the value 14:51:28 wondering what I am doing wrong? 14:53:06 Is that a literal #(42) or is that a (make-array 1 :element-type '(unsigned-byte 8) :initial-contents '(42)) ? 14:53:18 literal 14:53:28 That'd probably do it. 14:54:03 If you DESCRIBE your #(42), it'll probably just be an array, not an array specialized to (unsigned-byte 8), and postmodern will probably do something different with it. 14:54:04 any idea why any and all DNS queries are returning IOLIB.MULTIPLEX:POLL-ERROR ? 14:54:49 nha_ [~prefect@koln-4db41f52.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:57 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 14:55:33 http://paste.lisp.org/display/141037 14:55:37 No I get an error when using get-dao with the same value, it 14:55:37 constructs a query WHERE hash = *, which is obiuously wrong. 14:56:33 Adlai: works here 14:57:21 it's odd 14:57:26 Hrm. And now you're beyond what I can help with, as I found fairly quickly that I didn't like the postmodern DAO, and so removed almost all uses of it in my own projects. 14:57:45 Adlai: getting socket errors with UDP is uncommon 14:57:46 I am not so sure either... 14:57:48 fe[nl]ix: I have no doubt it's a local issue, I'm just new to any programming that involves more than one computer and zero cables :) 14:58:17 Adlai: maybe you have a firewall that rejects DNS queries to some servers ? 14:58:25 OH 14:58:27 nyef: I thought using the dao's would save work while constructing 14:58:27 this early prototype... 14:58:37 Adlai: that looks like localhost 14:58:53 I had trouble with my DNS last week and set up tordns as the default 14:59:08 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:59:16 this is probably what caused the problem 14:59:30 try (iolib/sockets:lookup-hostname "google.com" :ns "8.8.8.8") 14:59:50 And it might. I found the DAO to be an "okay" stepping stone for me for a brief while, because I already had classes defined to hold all of my data in memory. 14:59:54 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 15:00:21 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:00:51 But, as I said, I ditched it quickly, and I don't recall ever trying to use a bytea as a key field. 15:01:16 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 15:02:25 fe[nl]ix: I have iolib.sockets:lookup-host and iolib.sockets:lookup-hostname, but neither seem to accept :NS 15:03:31 -!- nha_ [~prefect@koln-4db41f52.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:03:52 hmm, that's new 15:04:02 (let ((iolib.sockets:*dns-nameservers* (iolib.sockets:ensure-address "8.8.8.8"))) (iolib.sockets:lookup-hostname "google.com")) 15:04:10 anyways, temporarily disabling tordns works too 15:04:20 ah, ok 15:04:25 this might not be a "bug", since I know that tordns doesn't support the entire DNS protocol 15:04:32 cmpitg [~cmpitg@42.112.103.44] has joined #lisp 15:04:32 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@42.112.103.44] has quit [Changing host] 15:04:32 cmpitg [~cmpitg@unaffiliated/cmpitg] has joined #lisp 15:04:43 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:a09c:4aea:5b6a:689a] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:04:46 although it should be possible to work within the subset it supports, since other applications worked fine until now 15:05:13 I don't know what's going on exactly 15:05:30 you should get a network trace to investigate 15:06:27 EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:a09c:4aea:5b6a:689a] has joined #lisp 15:07:53 askatasuna [~askatasun@181.164.152.177] has joined #lisp 15:08:19 -!- zajn [~zajn@pool-71-177-17-217.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:09:30 zajn [~zajn@pool-71-189-109-206.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:15 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 15:14:24 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:c698:a1d0:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:15:04 nha_ [~prefect@koln-4db41f52.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:47 nyef: Do you recall what you had to do in order to handle db_null well? Do I have to supply a specific :initform to actually get NIL instead of "false" for uninitialized (or db-null XY) slots? 15:16:13 Nope. 15:16:37 I might not even have handled :null columns before transitioning away from the DAO. 15:17:05 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:18:11 foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-099-224-149.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:18 I think I found it, :col-default :null 15:21:49 hmm doesnt do the trick 15:21:51 -.- 15:21:57 why do I get "false" 15:22:11 that must be the most useless value 15:23:49 Now you get to dig through the implementation to figure out how to get what you want to appear at the backend. 15:25:11 ehu [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 15:25:12 I don't think I am patent enough for that. 15:25:17 patient* 15:25:36 I will probably drop the dao and abuse pgsql as a key value store... 15:29:13 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:31:32 -!- Ethan- [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:34:09 *Xach* is sad to miss ELS in paris 15:35:05 it sounds like a barn burner 15:35:45 it does sound good! Let's hope (hint hint) there are some good submissions as well 15:37:59 i wont have a submission this year... 15:38:12 havent gotten anything done last year 15:38:29 there's still a month and a half! 15:38:33 ish 15:38:54 *wakeup* is fully stacked with contract work :( 15:39:10 clojure + js ~.~ 15:39:20 aftershave [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 15:41:58 Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 15:42:37 aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 15:43:33 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:45:20 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 15:50:10 -!- aftersha_ [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:50:29 zickzackv [~faot@p5DDB0B60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 15:52:07 -!- wakeup [~user@xdsl-89-0-174-152.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:55:57 genericus [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:05:30 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 16:05:37 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:08:05 -!- zophy [venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:11:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-27-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:13:00 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 16:17:26 zophy [venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:41 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:18:59 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:19:38 -!- eee-blt_ [U2FsdGVkX1@ma.sdf.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:20:11 eee-blt [U2FsdGVkX1@ma.sdf.org] has joined #lisp 16:21:09 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 16:21:15 C: http://pastebin.com/HSaWJCTw 16:21:18 Lisp: http://pastebin.com/1R1bfHXu 16:21:25 I finished porting some C program to Lisp 16:21:34 Can anyone tell me what I did that's 'bad' ? 16:21:56 you used DEFVAR not at top-level 16:22:02 you have close parens on their own lines 16:22:06 your indentation is not standard 16:22:29 Anything else is welcome 16:22:40 of those, the first is a semantics issue -- your code doesn't mean what you think it means 16:22:51 the other two just make your code incredibly hard to read 16:22:51 those defvars not at the top-level are completely out of place 16:23:13 marlin2 [~cgiirc@mistero.ircgate.it] has joined #lisp 16:23:28 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:31 using 0 and 1 as boolean return values is bizarre 16:23:50 you can't force your way into lisp, you need to take it step by step 16:24:21 Like learning any language, it's at least partly an acculturation process. 16:24:21 It was just an experiment to see if I could get through it 16:24:26 I knew that it'd be junk before I even started 16:24:35 Twipply: that's fine, you don't have to justify yourself 16:24:43 but don't be surprised that you get comments along the lines of "it's junk", then 16:24:47 I just thought I'd mention it 16:24:49 and I'm not 16:24:55 I just want you to know that I've never done it before 16:24:57 so anything is welcome 16:25:02 any comments 16:25:13 i have only one comment, read Practical Common Lisp 16:25:14 I don't know a single thing about Lisp, basically 16:25:15 your second and third clauses in the loop in Valid should be combined into one, using the ABS function (like in C) 16:25:16 or how to use it 16:25:33 arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 16:25:48 it is more normal to use lowercase for all identifiers, and hyphens rather than underscores 16:25:50 bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 16:25:53 I didn't look up abs() because this had already taken me over an hour 16:25:56 Twipply: You might want to hang around on #clnoobs for a while, too. 16:26:37 I did notice a lot of hypens in function names I read 16:26:44 I guess I'll use them 16:26:53 Joreji [~thomas@136-135.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 16:26:56 the advice to read a book cover to cover is a good one 16:27:10 I will and am reading books 16:27:16 but I also want to actually code something occasionally 16:27:36 the books usually suggest coding exercises 16:27:45 often with a suitable learning curve 16:27:45 well, you did, now you can throw it away and keep reading 16:28:18 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:28:53 -!- eee-blt [U2FsdGVkX1@ma.sdf.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:28:55 So, why is returning 0 and 1 bizarre? 16:29:21 because lisp is not C 16:29:41 Because our canonical false and true values are NIL and T, with anything other than NIL being acceptable as "true" similar to anything other than 0 being acceptable as "true" in C. 16:30:00 I see, thanks. 16:30:11 Please know I am actually googling these comments also 16:30:19 what for? 16:30:24 To learn? 16:30:30 google is useless for learning 16:31:00 google is not useless for learning. 16:31:05 So you'd rather I just read the book and only the book? 16:33:05 stassats: I strongly disagree, google isn't that bad for learning. 16:33:17 Twipply: yes, it explains things in a structured and progressive way 16:35:11 I lose patience fairly easily with "structured and progressive" learning. I typically want lots of input, to explore things out-of-order as they catch my interest, and to get something working quickly. 16:35:21 eee-blt [U2FsdGVkX1@ma.sdf.org] has joined #lisp 16:36:02 there is a difference between getting something to work and learning proper techniques 16:36:16 In C, I generally just googled whatever I required to do what I wanted to do at the time 16:36:29 'Read the book' is not something I've done before really 16:36:34 Possibly even more dangerous with C. 16:36:35 Twipply: that is the wrong way. 16:37:02 What's wrong with it? 16:37:11 Twipply: googling anything you don't know doesn't help, you don't see the connections this way! 16:37:37 Well, that C program I pasted was done entirely through googling what I wanted 16:37:41 and it solves the problem I wanted to solve 16:37:46 So I think it does help? 16:37:47 Information is not like atoms, it's more like linked lists. 16:37:54 stassats: Sure, but an initial grounding in proper technique can be picked up almost in passing when looking up specific problems. 16:37:56 -!- arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:38:09 Twipply: there is a difference between getting something to work and learning proper techniques 16:38:14 Twipply: solving problem is not what learning is. 16:38:19 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-27-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:38:45 ore even, getting something to appear to work 16:39:20 Does what I did not work? 16:39:26 The solutions are correct 16:39:58 So what? 16:40:24 *rszeno* if it compile, deliver it, :) 16:40:27 So I don't know how it can only -appear- to work 16:40:57 Right. 16:41:07 Well, if it does the thing correctly but improperly, then it only appears to work. 16:41:20 the type spec for nil is null. got bitten again. 16:45:16 moreover, one of the aspects of code is how readable it is 16:46:28 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: experience terminated into perpetual vacuum] 16:48:13 code should be written for people to read, etc 16:48:16 m104 [~m104@c-67-169-151-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:28 and for the appearance, have you tried it with N == 19? 16:51:08 It'd never finish if I did. 16:51:27 Neither would the C version 16:51:47 why wouldn't it finish? 16:52:02 N is too large of a value to finish before the universe becomes cold and quiet. 16:52:49 -!- CrazyEddy [~Solenodon@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:53:13 It isn't actually, but for that method I think it is. 16:53:24 The C code was written to be simple, not fast. 16:53:49 and not because 4968057848 won't fit into int? 16:54:23 I'd change the varaible type if I thought it'd get that far 16:54:26 variable* 16:54:49 The best I can do is 18x18 in ~9 minutes 16:54:52 and that happens to fit in 17:01:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:06:53 CrazyEddy [~ethmopala@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 17:09:27 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:c698:a1d0:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 17:09:33 Twipply, search without pruning the search space is the worst solution no matter what language you use 17:09:49 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 17:09:59 I believe the method used there is actually one of the best known, but don't quote me on that 17:10:05 I'm not interested in the algorithm used anyway 17:10:13 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:33 I just picked it to rewrite in Lisp because I like the problem (N Queens) and it looked simple enough to do 17:13:45 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 17:15:08 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@107-218-174-88.lightspeed.fyvlar.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:17:14 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 17:18:47 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:21:38 -!- brain_shim [~brain_shi@135-23-97-181.cpe.pppoe.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:22:20 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.246.19] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 17:24:18 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:26:50 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:24 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:28:53 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:29:11 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 17:35:15 -!- Joreji [~thomas@136-135.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:36:20 nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 17:38:45 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:43:27 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 17:45:14 http://pastebin.com/iHuH2MNJ 17:45:22 I have to go and do other things shortly, so that's as far as I've got 17:45:25 Is it any better perhaps? 17:45:52 The old version if required: http://pastebin.com/1R1bfHXu 17:46:12 ejbs [~user@h82-117-106-145.dynamic.se.alltele.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:42 Xach: Hey, do you have any requirements on the projects that go into Quicklisp? Is the only one that they compile basically? 17:47:38 -!- foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-099-224-149.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:48:49 vaporatorius [~vaporator@55.Red-88-5-225.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:29 -!- zickzackv [~faot@p5DDB0B60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:51:48 foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-099-224-149.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:09 nug700 [~nug700@184-98-184-249.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:43 -!- Twipply [~Twipply3@cpc17-mapp10-2-0-cust179.12-4.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:59:51 jhao [~junhao@pool-72-76-190-214.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:33 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:05:32 paphos [~shashank@182.68.174.88] has joined #lisp 18:09:02 -!- paphos [~shashank@182.68.174.88] has quit [Client Quit] 18:09:05 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:11:21 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-27-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:12:37 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-27-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:14:27 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 18:14:47 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:17:36 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:18:02 ejbs: the .asd should have author, license, and description info too 18:19:31 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:20:41 -!- jhao [~junhao@pool-72-76-190-214.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jhao] 18:21:52 define-json-expander has no :description! 18:23:42 i'm not able to load mcclim-truetype via asdf only, i mean if i don't use quicklisp before... 18:23:53 after loading it once via quicklisp it also works with asdf.... 18:24:08 -!- quasisane [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:24:24 i solved the font problem..... 18:24:58 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:01 -!- aftershave [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:26:01 oleo: that is the case with pretty much anything, since asdf does not fetch software for you but quicklisp does. 18:26:50 err, isn't mcclim-truetype just a module so to say (defsystem ......) 18:27:12 i mean it's not about fetching, i already have it in my repo..... 18:27:37 That is an important fact to mention. 18:27:50 But why alter the essential nature of your vague ramblings? 18:28:23 -!- nha_ [~prefect@koln-4db41f52.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:28:32 the number of dots increases, yesterdsay it was 4, now it's 5 18:28:32 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:39 xach i already have it in the directory mcclim, it's supposed to be defined there.... as a subsystem..... 18:28:48 asdf mentions it can load subsystems.... 18:28:52 or modules... 18:29:19 is it some path issues which quicklisp resolves ? 18:29:35 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:29:41 or is there more to it when it does not work via asdf only ? 18:29:44 aftershave [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 18:35:35 Xach: Fixing atm, sorry :) 18:35:50 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:35:58 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 18:38:16 Xach: Alright, fixed the description! 18:40:41 ya 18:40:43 y 18:42:26 -!- ejbs [~user@h82-117-106-145.dynamic.se.alltele.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:44:22 jhao [~junhao@pool-72-76-190-214.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:45 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p578FCFA8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:48:53 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-236-135.w109-215.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 19:00:08 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 19:00:35 cchooper [~cchooper@cpc1-walt5-0-0-cust182.13-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:17 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:02:38 -!- zophy [venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:03:51 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 19:04:56 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:07:08 evenson [~user@77.119.132.141.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has joined #lisp 19:10:34 -!- zajn [~zajn@pool-71-189-109-206.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: zajn] 19:10:42 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 19:13:10 -!- cantstanya [~hello@unaffiliated/cantstanya] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:15:15 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 19:15:20 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 19:18:20 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 19:19:46 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:18 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:20:30 pecg [~pecg@190.92.53.208] has joined #lisp 19:20:34 -!- pecg [~pecg@190.92.53.208] has quit [Changing host] 19:20:34 pecg [~pecg@unaffiliated/pecg] has joined #lisp 19:21:37 -!- pecg [~pecg@unaffiliated/pecg] has quit [Client Quit] 19:23:00 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-44-179.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:03 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:23:39 -!- _d3f [~gnu@vm5.rout0r.org] has quit [Quit: brb] 19:24:49 -!- Houl [~Parmi@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:25:05 sorabji5252 [~user@ratio.devvz.com] has joined #lisp 19:25:44 vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:31 pecg [~pecg@unaffiliated/pecg] has joined #lisp 19:26:51 _d3f [~gnu@vm5.rout0r.org] has joined #lisp 19:28:22 -!- _d3f [~gnu@vm5.rout0r.org] has quit [Client Quit] 19:28:44 _d3f [~gnu@vm5.rout0r.org] has joined #lisp 19:30:22 -!- pecg [~pecg@unaffiliated/pecg] has quit [Client Quit] 19:30:53 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@76-244-38-58.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:31:58 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-237-68-160.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:34:27 vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has joined #lisp 19:34:35 -!- marlin2 [~cgiirc@mistero.ircgate.it] has quit [Quit: IRCGate CGI:IRC User (EOF)] 19:36:04 quasisane [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:30 -!- abend [~quassel@75-148-54-129-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 19:37:37 abend [~quassel@75-148-54-129-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:53 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 19:39:59 -!- jhao [~junhao@pool-72-76-190-214.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jhao] 19:41:07 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:45:03 jhao [~junhao@pool-72-76-190-214.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:04 -!- jhao [~junhao@pool-72-76-190-214.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:46:06 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:08 http://philip.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=0006XQ --- hehe, I love the first story ;-) 19:46:56 jhao [~junhao@pool-72-76-190-214.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:14 -!- jhao [~junhao@pool-72-76-190-214.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:47:58 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 19:48:20 jhao [~junhao@pool-72-76-190-214.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:00 -!- jhao [~junhao@pool-72-76-190-214.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:49:24 jhao [~junhao@pool-72-76-190-214.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:20 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:08 brain_shim [~brain_shi@135-23-97-181.cpe.pppoe.ca] has joined #lisp 19:56:28 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:56:51 -!- nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fedb:a448] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:58:01 zajn [~zajn@pool-71-189-107-163.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:04 nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fedb:a448] has joined #lisp 19:58:10 -!- zajn [~zajn@pool-71-189-107-163.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:02:34 -!- foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-099-224-149.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:04:18 -!- evenson [~user@77.119.132.141.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:05:00 foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-099-224-149.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:26 jackdani1l [~jack@hellsgate.pl] has joined #lisp 20:05:52 -!- jackdani1l [~jack@hellsgate.pl] has quit [Client Quit] 20:05:59 -!- jackdaniel [~jack@hellsgate.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:06:01 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:06:07 jackdaniel [~jack@hellsgate.pl] has joined #lisp 20:07:00 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:12:24 -!- ggole [~ggole@124-148-70-119.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 20:12:44 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-184-8.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:13:26 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:16:01 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 20:16:01 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 20:16:24 -!- Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:16:28 nha [~prefect@koln-4db4083a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:44 gmcastil [~user@75-145-122-2-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:01 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:19:21 Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 20:19:24 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 20:20:33 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:20:59 -!- OldContrarian [~user@c-ef9de155.42-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:22:39 -!- foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-099-224-149.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:23:06 -!- moto9 [~ml@p3E9E1553.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:27:38 anotherguy [~anothergu@174-20-200-168.mpls.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:27:55 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p57922519.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:28:02 -!- gmcastil [~user@75-145-122-2-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:29:26 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:30:42 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:21 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:33:18 InfusoElAmbulant [~nonononon@cm-188-171-10-178.telecable.es] has joined #lisp 20:34:24 gmcastil [~user@75-145-122-2-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:10 moto9 [~ml@p3E9E2E46.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:37:49 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:23 -!- cchooper [~cchooper@cpc1-walt5-0-0-cust182.13-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:43:03 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 20:45:37 Twipply [~Twipply3@cpc17-mapp10-2-0-cust179.12-4.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:45 Watcher7 [~w@108.218.0.100] has joined #lisp 20:50:06 cchooper [~cchooper@cpc1-walt5-0-0-cust182.13-2.cable.virginm.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:36 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:51:49 Did anyone happen to look over this while I was gone and see if it was any better? http://pastebin.com/iHuH2MNJ 20:51:52 foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-099-224-149.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:41 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.136.213] has joined #lisp 20:53:29 Twipply, better relative to what 20:53:40 http://pastebin.com/1R1bfHXu 20:53:43 That ^ 20:53:44 <|3b|> Twipply: defvar inside a function is usually wrong 20:53:56 Do you have an alternate way? 20:53:58 <|3b|> it always makes a global var, just not until it is called 20:54:10 <|3b|> and it doesn't reinitialize an existing var, so won't reset it each call 20:54:25 I see. 20:54:33 I'll try look it up, thanks. 20:54:49 -!- cchooper [~cchooper@cpc1-walt5-0-0-cust182.13-2.cable.virginm.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:54:51 <|3b|> and defvar makes "special" variables (which means dynamic scope), so you should name them differently to avoid confusing them with normal lexical variables. CL style is to name them like *a* instead of a 20:55:09 I saw variables named as such, but never saw why they were 20:55:28 Twipply, it is a slight improvement 20:55:45 Well, any improvement is good improvement, so thanks. 20:55:50 <|3b|> in that case, you don't need to do anything, since the LOOP creates a variable binding for A and initializes it 20:56:11 I didn't think I needed (defvar a 0) either 20:56:15 but I kept having issues when I removed it 20:56:25 <|3b|> though you should probably restart your lisp after getting rid of the defvars, and reload your code 20:56:25 I'm new to this as of earlier today, so perhaps I was messing it up somehow 20:56:32 Yeah, maybe it was that 20:56:56 It took me a while to get used to how it all works 20:56:59 <|3b|> having names like A and B defined as special variables can be confusing if you aren't expecting it (which is why the ** on secial variables) 20:57:14 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.162.136.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:57:39 I removed it and it works fine now, thanks. 20:57:49 <|3b|> instead of loop for a from 0 to (- c 1), you can do loop for a from 0 below c, or just loop for a below c 20:57:56 is there a (semi-)portable way to know how many bytes a given string needs in memory? I see (length (sb-ext:string-to-octets "Hello Wørld")) as an example 20:58:06 <|3b|> and otherwise, (- c 1) can be written as (1- c) 20:58:06 I see, thanks. 20:58:25 (and I wonder how costly sb-ext:string-to-octets really is) 20:58:53 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:58:55 <|3b|> dim: i'd expect strings to be 4bytes/char in unicode CLs 20:59:09 pyx [~pyx@unaffiliated/pyx] has joined #lisp 20:59:12 All the guides I read described writing it as (1- c) instead of (- 1 c) as being 'shorthand' 20:59:19 -!- pyx [~pyx@unaffiliated/pyx] has quit [Client Quit] 20:59:19 but I honestly don't see how it's realistically any shorter 20:59:23 I get to remove 1 space 20:59:26 (- 1 c) is not (1- c) 20:59:44 No? Did I get that backwards? 20:59:46 <|3b|> Twipply: that sort of thing makes more difference if you have something long instead of C 20:59:52 (1- c) == (- c 1) 21:00:09 Oh, I flipped it by mistake 21:00:13 I haven't used it before, that's why, just read. 21:00:16 I didn't see the need for it 21:00:26 <|3b|> with -, you can have arbitrary number of things being subtracted, so you have to read the form more closely to tell what it does, while 1- has exactly 1 argument 21:00:43 Twipply, Beware, there is a lot of idiomatic lisp prescriptivism you'll likely receive in this channel 21:01:18 <|3b|> not quite as much of a win as 1+ though, since 1- doesn't describe what it does quite as well, and it is easy to confuse it with subtracting from 1 (which wouldn't be very useful in general) 21:01:20 (I am not saying learning idiomatic Lisp is bad. It's not. But it can be a distraction.) 21:01:40 <|3b|> yeah, we want to be able to easily read code we are asked to help fix :) 21:02:22 I shall beware with all my might. 21:02:27 <|3b|> (and also some of the suggestions are intended to avoid subtle and hard to understand bugs, or encourage better understanding of how CL works) 21:02:28 -!- aftershave [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:02:59 I have a specific question about lines 15 & 16 21:03:00 (defvar b (aref board x)) 21:03:00 (loop for b from 0 to (- N 1) 21:03:04 Those ones^ 21:03:10 evenson [~user@77.119.132.141.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has joined #lisp 21:03:11 I couldn't do that without creating the b variable 21:03:16 Is there a way? 21:03:52 <|3b|> that defvar is completely pointless, aside from confusingly turning any use of B into a special variable binding 21:04:21 francogrex [~user@91.182.165.101] has joined #lisp 21:04:24 Well, I didn't want to put it there 21:04:25 (loop for (aref board x) from 0 to (- N 1) 21:04:28 I wanted to do that 21:04:29 <|3b|> loop for b from 0 immediately initializes b to 0, and defvar doesn't change the value of b if it already has a value, so wouldn't do anything the second call anyway 21:04:37 Twipply, what does that mean? 21:04:49 <|3b|> you want to modify the contents of (aref board x)? 21:04:51 do you want the value of (aref board x) to change? 21:05:06 I was hoping in my innocence that it'd just increment the board array's xth element 21:05:07 or do you want to loop across the contents of (aref board x) ? 21:05:28 *|3b|* was about to suggest exactly what you have on line 17 for that :p 21:05:29 (loop :for x :from 0 :to (- N 1) :for b := (aref board x) :do ....) 21:05:38 This is the C code I'm rewriting in Lisp: http://pastebin.com/HSaWJCTw 21:05:38 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@mawercer.de] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 21:05:42 Maybe it can clear up my intentions 21:05:59 I see 21:06:09 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 21:06:10 <|3b|> yeah, loop won't do that directly 21:07:10 The loop part is my main point of irritation right now 21:07:25 having two sets of do () seems wrong 21:07:25 <|3b|> you might also want defparameter instead of defvar for N,board, and number-results (and name them *n*,*board*, *number-results*, and change uses to match) 21:07:43 <|3b|> you can put more than 1 form in a LOOP DO block 21:07:55 That's what I tried to do, but I couldn't get it to work 21:07:58 No doubt my own failings 21:08:06 do ( (first) (second) ) 21:08:07 Or so? 21:08:10 <|3b|> just delete the 2nd DO and leave rest exactly the same 21:08:17 <|3b|> do (first) (second) 21:08:25 Maybe that was my issue 21:08:43 <|3b|> you can never just add () in CL 21:08:45 That's not an issue, that's just a style/idiomatic thing 21:08:54 (the :do x y ...) 21:09:05 <|3b|> if you want multiple forms somewhere only 1 is allowed, do (progn (first) (second)) 21:09:48 <|3b|> most places where you usually want more than 1 form (like body of a function, inside LET, LOOP DO clause, etc) implicitly do PROGN for you though, so just put multiple forms with no extra () around them 21:10:10 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 21:10:42 So will using two like I did get my shouted out by hardcore lispers? 21:10:45 get me* 21:10:47 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:10:55 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 21:11:09 <|3b|> two DO you mean? 21:11:14 Yes 21:11:34 easiere [~user@77.119.132.141.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has joined #lisp 21:11:37 -!- stanislav [~stanislav@188.251.56.164] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:11:44 stanislav_ [~stanislav@188.251.56.164] has joined #lisp 21:12:10 <|3b|> i'd probably tell you you didn't need it if i thought you were not familiar with lisp, but i wouldn't make an effort to edit it if i weren't changing the code anyway 21:12:22 Okay. 21:12:34 Well, I am new to Lisp as of earlier today, so anything you want to point out is welcome. 21:12:41 And thanks for being so helpful 21:12:49 Same to everyone else that commented 21:12:54 *|3b|* sometimes does that for things i expect i might want to edit out later for testing for example 21:13:12 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 21:13:40 So I have any stylistic issues left? 21:13:57 <|3b|> what does it currently look like? 21:13:57 Indents and the like 21:14:11 I followed a guide as best I could to fix idents and things 21:14:19 and the comments 21:14:28 It seems readable to me, but then again, I'm the one that wrote it. 21:14:51 <|3b|> show me a paste with current code i mean 21:15:02 Oh, right. 21:15:20 The pastebin version is pretty much it 21:15:28 I removed the extra DO 21:15:35 and I'm going to try fix that defvar issue 21:16:38 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 21:16:41 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-61-223.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:16:44 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 21:18:22 <|3b|> instead of an IF with only one branch like (if (valid x) ...) you can use WHEN or UNLESS 21:21:44 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:23:24 -!- brain_shim [~brain_shi@135-23-97-181.cpe.pppoe.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24:35 przl [~przlrkt@p57922519.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:25:19 neoncortex [~neoncorte@unaffiliated/xispirito] has joined #lisp 21:25:42 -!- cross [~cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:26:12 cross [~cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:13 -!- cross [~cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:27:00 kristof [~Kristoffe@162-236-113-137.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:03 zickzackv [~faot@p5DDB0B60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:27:11 cross [~cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:27 -!- kristof [~Kristoffe@162-236-113-137.lightspeed.frokca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:27:27 kristof [~Kristoffe@unaffiliated/kristof] has joined #lisp 21:27:31 -!- cross [~cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:28:18 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-61-223.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 21:29:23 cross [~cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:43 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p57922519.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:31:06 KaiQ [~localhost@p578FCFA8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:37:57 I'm quite lost for fixing this: 21:37:58 (defvar b (aref *board* x)) 21:37:58 (loop for b from 0 below *N* 21:37:58 do (setf (aref *board* x) b) 21:38:25 I don't seem to get what I want when googling it 21:38:35 Perhaps I'm using the wrong terms 21:39:27 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:40:53 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 21:41:07 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 21:41:40 Twipply: what are you trying to do? 21:41:55 Get rid of the horrible feeling those 3 lines give me 21:42:01 Replace them with the 'correct' way 21:42:03 b in the loop is no 0 to *N* hat's the use of the defvar? 21:42:06 I can't possibly imagine that what I did is right 21:42:26 Is the xth element of the board vector I need to iterate from 0 to N 21:42:31 hinting the gc FTW 21:43:03 well counting bytes double the simple test timings, so a way to manually activate the option only when necessary is to be found 21:43:05 you want to iterate over the array 21:43:12 No 21:43:20 I want Board[x] = 0 to Board[x] = N-1 21:43:49 <|3b|> Twipply: just get rid of the defvar 21:44:03 it's useless the defvar 21:44:24 <|3b|> (loop for b below *n* do (setf (aref *board* x) b) ...) is reasonable 21:44:33 It is? 21:44:39 That's part of what I was trying to get rid of 21:44:41 the third line 21:44:42 Twipply, I rewrote your program in two ways, one way is how you should fix your program, and another way is how I'd write it 21:44:50 it seems that (length string) is about as costly as (length (sb-ext:string-to-octets string :external-format :utf-8)) 21:45:01 <|3b|> Twipply: paste you current code? 21:45:07 Sure, one moment. 21:45:10 And thanks Quadrescence 21:45:15 That's nice of you 21:45:28 <|3b|> dim: length should be fast/O(0) on a string, string-to-octets should be O(n) 21:45:45 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:46:07 Twipply, this is what your program should look like (up to a couple stylistic preferences): http://paste.lisp.org/display/141041 21:46:14 My current version: http://pastebin.com/TKh3zpdB 21:46:29 ahah 21:46:43 |3b|: my bad, what's costly is actually doing the extra manual gc calls 21:46:47 Twipply, this is more like how I'd write it: http://paste.lisp.org/display/141041#1 21:47:30 Thanks 21:47:35 It might take me a long time to read them over 21:47:43 so don't feel like I'm ignoring your help if I say nothing for 3-4 days 21:47:52 Probably shorter than the channel going one by one on the possible things you can do to your program. 21:48:30 (And I am not saying anything bad about your try at it.) 21:48:41 You can if you like, I'm in no doubt about how bad it is. 21:48:52 I play with C, not Lisp 21:48:55 Twipply, SICP goes through N-queens, for what it's worth. 21:48:58 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:49:13 *|3b|* would tell both of you to spell out column :p 21:49:29 I totally did that in the C version 21:49:49 |3b|, After writing a matrix library, I gave up writing out column. 21:50:02 *|3b|* would also use I for an otherwise meaningless iteration variable name 21:50:38 If COL is not evident from a function named COLUMN-VALID-P, then, well, I don't know. 21:51:18 Is not having :initial-element 0 undefined behaviour in Lisp? 21:51:32 <|3b|> only if you read from it before writing it 21:51:43 <|3b|> 'it' being any specific element in the array 21:51:47 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-61-223.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 21:51:56 Twipply, Well in this case it doesn't really matter. 21:52:05 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-4db4083a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:52:09 But initializing your array is generally good practice, in my opinion. 21:52:16 Probably 21:52:49 Twipply, did someone already tell you about CLHS? :) 21:53:09 I don't think so, but I might have just glossed over when it was mentioned 21:54:11 It seems to be on one of my many, many tabs at the moment though 21:54:16 So maybe I'm already using it 21:54:38 It's a little hard for me to use currently 21:54:40 Syntax: do ({var | (var [init-form [step-form]])}*) (end-test-form result-form*) declaration* {tag | statement}* 21:54:54 I can do little more than read that and carry on currently 21:55:30 n0n0 [~n0n0___@adsl-75-10-252-113.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:50 -!- pierpa [~user@95.236.58.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:56:24 Twipply, You can safely ignore that syntax for DO. 21:56:43 It has nothing to do with LOOP's DO. 21:57:05 I'll continue to ignore it then, thanks. 21:57:33 (I mean you can learn it if you want, so you can be among the archaic 7 people who use it.) 21:57:40 I'll pass. 21:57:46 If you want to laugh/cry at my first version: http://pastebin.com/1R1bfHXu 21:57:53 -!- zickzackv [~faot@p5DDB0B60.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:58:00 I ignored everything and just went straight from C to Lisp 21:58:11 Twipply, I was a beginner one day too. 21:58:45 I have no shame in being awful thankfully. 21:59:38 Twipply, try chapters 2 and 3 ... those nice for understanding ``variables'', environments and such. At least that should clarify why defvar/defparameter usually isn't right for creating ``variables''. 22:00:09 I'll add them to the reading list, thanks. 22:00:29 Alfr, Do you \emph{like} ``\LaTeX''? 22:01:04 Are we returning true in dotimes () just because it needs something and we don't care what it is in this case? 22:01:16 Quadrescence, ``'' is just a pari of quotes. oO 22:01:22 *pair 22:01:33 "quotes" 22:01:33 -!- evenson [~user@77.119.132.141.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:01:34 No, "" is a pair of quotes. :) 22:01:36 -!- easiere [~user@77.119.132.141.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:02:14 Quadrescence, guess then it's a LaTeX habit of mine. Mea culpa. 22:02:44 Alfr, :) 22:02:51 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:25 Well, I can understand the first version of the code you wrote Quadrescence 22:03:33 So I guess that's good 22:03:41 Quadrescence, what I actually wanted to tell you is that I dont use them to \emph things. 22:03:57 Twipply, It's okay if you don't get the second. That is chockfull of a bunch of stuff that you don't need to care about (yet!). 22:04:25 Alfr, You mean you don't use quotes to emphasize things? Of course not. Those who do... shouldn't. 22:04:59 innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:05:11 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-27-170.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:05:28 -!- foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-099-224-149.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:05:59 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.35.17] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:06:09 ... then for some communication channels there isn't much left. 22:06:47 Isn't this second version basically just the same but you kind of did something weird with the functions 22:06:52 defined them internally/locally 22:07:32 Twipply, Yes. Truth be told, I probably wouldn't express the algorithm that way. I tend to shy away from storage and explicit returning. 22:08:06 'that way' as in how you did for the second version? 22:08:26 The general way the problem is being solved. 22:08:34 Oh. 22:08:40 If I must use the general way, then I would express it as in the second version. 22:09:04 I think I wrote this thing as a 'simple' version to show someone else in C 22:09:05 przl [~przlrkt@p57922519.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:09:16 I have other versions that I actually use 22:09:19 That's okay. 22:09:38 I like to try make it as fast as possible 22:09:43 So I have ~14 versions in a folder 22:09:47 all timed and things 22:10:13 I don't think my Lisp version will be breaking any records just yet 22:11:20 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-204-126.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:13:02 I kind of got discouraged about that whole thing some months ago 22:13:16 I showed that same basic C version to ##asm to get help rewriting it in assembly 22:13:30 Some guy in there proceeded to destroy my fastest version ever in ~30 minutes 22:13:43 :) 22:14:06 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p57922519.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:17:27 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 22:21:14 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:21:50 -!- add^_ [~user@m5-241-186-97.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:27 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:26:39 -!- francogrex [~user@91.182.165.101] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:36:15 -!- stanislav_ [~stanislav@188.251.56.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:38:20 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:39:29 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:41:24 -!- Watcher7 [~w@108.218.0.100] has quit [Quit: h] 22:43:01 manual loop unrolling 22:43:03 no thank you 22:43:52 nha [~prefect@koln-4db4083a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:06 -!- innertracks [~Thunderbi@c-50-159-9-43.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: innertracks] 22:45:09 -!- munge [~user@cpe-075-178-033-080.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:45:31 maybe playing with a single 64 bits fixnum for the whole board? 22:45:57 stanislav_ [~stanislav@188.251.56.164] has joined #lisp 22:46:09 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 22:46:57 oh the board only needs 8 bits? is it impementing Knuth algo? 22:47:07 g-the-2nd [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:47:51 -!- STilda [kvirc@37.139.167.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:47:52 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 22:48:29 -!- genericus [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:50:59 CADD_ [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has joined #lisp 22:51:02 -!- CADD_ [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has quit [Client Quit] 22:51:53 -!- mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.122] has quit [Quit: mc40] 22:52:01 -!- prxq [~mommer@x2f6d797.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:52:17 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:52:22 dim - Was that directed at me? 22:52:31 loosely yes ;-) 22:52:53 The board size isn't necessarily 8x8 22:53:52 Though if it was, I wouldn't know about doing what you said. 22:55:20 rather than doing aref it might be possible to use bits values in a number 22:55:48 I did that for a sudoku solved (port of Norvig's python solution) 22:56:13 https://github.com/dimitri/sudoku 22:56:27 Feel free to try, I'd be glad to read it. 22:56:31 see the section logcount, logbitp and friends in the README 22:58:29 alexherbo21 [~alexherbo@mawercer.de] has joined #lisp 22:58:47 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-61-223.w90-3.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 22:58:50 -!- alexherbo21 [~alexherbo@mawercer.de] has quit [Client Quit] 22:59:08 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@mawercer.de] has joined #lisp 23:01:07 well now is when I go to sleep ;-) 23:01:17 zophy [venom@host-94-20-107-208.midco.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:19 Farewell 23:09:48 przl [~przlrkt@p57922519.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:14:26 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: ZzzZ] 23:14:27 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-4db4083a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:15:14 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p57922519.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:18:09 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@181.164.152.177] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 23:18:12 endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 23:18:37 CADD_ [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has joined #lisp 23:20:00 jpfuentes2 [~jacques@pool-173-53-63-65.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:45 -!- endou [~paul@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:23:29 -!- CADD_ [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:25:51 -!- cory786 [~cory@adsl-75-22-101-128.dsl.bumttx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:28:28 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:30:22 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:32:44 -!- matko [~matko@ip82-139-125-221.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:33:32 -!- g-the-2nd [~user@71-9-194-123.dhcp.kgpt.tn.charter.com] has left #lisp 23:34:53 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 23:38:44 -!- ryankarason is now known as rk[skate] 23:41:23 cory786 [~cory@75-22-101-128.lightspeed.dblnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:44:18 gmci [~gmc@rrcs-71-40-75-218.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:44:35 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:46:34 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:46:45 setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.241] has joined #lisp 23:46:48 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:46:48 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 23:50:10 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:50:49 -!- kristof [~Kristoffe@unaffiliated/kristof] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:51:33 -!- vkrest [~vkrest@173.252.71.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:51:38 Ethan- [~Ethan-@60-248-176-37.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:00 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 23:53:17 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:56:17 ASau` [~user@p54AFF70F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:56:21 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@adsl-75-10-252-113.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:58:18 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:49 -!- m104 [~m104@c-67-169-151-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 23:59:19 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFE507.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out]