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Bonus points for the assembler being in lisp. 01:04:05 cl:disassemble 01:04:27 or do you mean assembler as in the part that assembles whatever IR into machine code. 01:05:01 Bike: I would like to make an executible. 01:05:22 out of what? 01:06:01 Assembly instructions, like a lisp based assembler. 01:06:26 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.79.68] has joined #lisp 01:06:37 none of the compilers have that component particularly separable. beach has mentioned wanting a lispy assembler but it does not presently exist. 01:08:14 Oh well. It would be nice. I was thinking of writing a web page which would make custom lisps on demand. 01:08:52 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:10:39 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.79.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:10:44 Writing an assembler from scratch is a feat however. 01:11:00 Much like balancing pies on your nose, except entirely different. 01:11:15 normanrichards [~textual@cpe-24-27-51-104.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:11:18 Writing an assembler isn't particularly difficult. 01:11:43 I might go for "boring" or "mildly painstaking". 01:11:58 Maybe time consuming. 01:12:04 Certainly. 01:13:06 Elf and getting each processor's diffrences would also take time. 01:13:40 WarWeasle: That's not really an assembler's job. 01:13:54 Compiler sure, assembler no 01:14:12 Well, it depends on if you want to be able to link what you assemble ... 01:14:49 It would be nice. I could just use gas. 01:14:51 Er, I was referring to the processor's differences, not elf lol 01:15:44 Can you load an .o file into memory directly? 01:16:04 -!- nullFxn [~nullFxn@cpe-174-103-20-40.indy.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:16:22 No, you have to print it into a bucket, add some formic acid, then load it into memory 01:16:23 Maybe. 01:16:27 nullFxn [~nullFxn@cpe-174-103-20-40.indy.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:16:37 .o doesn't mean much. 01:16:45 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 01:17:37 Heddwch: biochemistry? 01:18:01 There are many kinds of object file around -- some may be directly loadable, others not. 01:19:11 WarWeasle: lol 01:19:41 It really depends on why you want to load it. We were on the topic of assemblers, so I assumed it wasn't in order to run the code within 01:19:44 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.140] has joined #lisp 01:20:36 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@194.228.11.172] has joined #lisp 01:20:41 I would like to build a lisp from the assembly up. Running a new function would be useful. 01:21:03 I wonder why no one had made one yet? 01:21:14 -!- nullFxn [~nullFxn@cpe-174-103-20-40.indy.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:26:23 nullFxn [~nullFxn@cpe-174-103-20-40.indy.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:26:36 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:27:50 -!- WoutvdW [~kilian@NYUFWA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-08.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:31:06 -!- nullFxn [~nullFxn@cpe-174-103-20-40.indy.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:32:58 There has. 01:33:31 Picolisp is written in x86_64 assembly 01:33:38 ...Is that what you asked? 01:33:45 Yes 01:33:53 Ok. There's your answer. 01:34:09 Building things in assembly is about as satisfying as walking to the store on merely your hands. 01:34:48 You toned your triceps but someone went to the store, and back, and still has the energy to eat the sandwich he bought. 01:34:51 Wait, its not an assembler written in lisp? It's just written in assembler. 01:34:56 Yeah. 01:35:30 Oh, sorry I misunderstood. I'm looking for a lispy assembler. 01:35:58 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:36:13 Look at sbcl 01:36:42 I'm not sure I understand. Assembly is shorthand for machine instructions. 01:37:01 You either want lisp, or you want assembly. Unless you have a machine optimized for cons cells, you can't have it both ways. 01:37:36 an assembler program. probably sexpy syntax and lisp macros. 01:37:42 And if you just mean s-expressions and procedural abstraction, then that's not what I think of when I think "lispy". 01:37:45 I want something like (MOV :EAX :EBX) 01:37:50 harish [~harish@14.100.132.37] has joined #lisp 01:38:02 *nightfly* saw stuff like that when building sbcl 01:38:12 yeah, sbcl has an assembler, but it's for sbcl. 01:38:15 ccl has one too. 01:38:27 ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.148] has joined #lisp 01:38:35 Also, as soon as you write it in assembler, it's nigh-useless on ARM servers, MIPS appliances, etc, etc, or even PCs in who-knows-how-long 01:38:43 WarWeasle: What problem are you trying to solve? 01:39:13 Zhivago: curiosity is my guess. 01:39:23 Errr, just scratching an itch, I mean 01:39:49 No problem. I think I can create a lisp that uses macros allmthe way down. 01:40:35 WarWeasel: It's certainly possible. 01:40:39 It seems the easiest way to make a compiler. 01:40:51 WarWeasel: That I would not agree with. 01:41:12 Macros are pretty brain-damaged for many of the things that a compiler would want to do. 01:42:15 As the compiler makes the code less abstract it loses the higher level information and needs somewhere to remember that. 01:42:16 Why? They are just functions which spit out code. 01:42:27 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:42:36 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@194.228.11.172] has quit [Quit: Ragequit] 01:42:37 usually the code itself isn't enough 01:42:51 Representing and accessing those annotations is important for the compiler to understand what it's actually doing. 01:43:09 Oh. But macros can use functions, so you could still keep state. 01:43:23 Sure, but you'd be required to encode that state in the code the macro produces. 01:43:45 And then you'd need something to walk the produced code to extract those annotations and put them somewhere for the next iteration to read. 01:44:03 It's doable, but I wouldn't be putting it down at the "easiest" end of the spectrum. 01:44:30 So a recursive assembler would be more difficult. 01:44:36 imagine you have the CL code (+ x y). it would be good to spit out different code for x and y integer than for x and y float or x and y unknown. it would be good to annotate x and y as having to be numerical for other parts of the code, including earlier parts. it would be good to possibly do different things if one of them is constant. 01:46:15 So you wouldn't put that as temp data in the ast? 01:47:19 Put what as temp data? 01:48:30 As you build the ast, you could put code hints into it. So if x in a number and not a pointer, and had been validated, it knows not to check again. 01:48:55 Well, there's the other thing -- s-exps aren't a particularly good at representing ASTs. 01:48:57 The point is that you don't know it's a number until you notice it's an argument to addition. 01:49:24 and of course maybe the addition isn't literal either. 01:50:00 Because you work backwards. 01:50:13 Or, rather, you don't know that it may be used as a number until you see it used as a number, and if you want type safety, you'll then want to propagate that type requirement backward up its provenance path. 01:50:19 That makes sense. 01:50:32 So that you can then warn the user that they might be sending a non-number to its doom. 01:50:32 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 01:51:13 DOOM! Wellnit seemed like a good idea. 01:51:39 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:51:52 -!- normanrichards [~textual@cpe-24-27-51-104.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [] 01:52:15 -!- harish [~harish@14.100.132.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:54:33 WoutvdW [~kilian@host-216-220-114-135.dsl.bway.net] has joined #lisp 01:55:08 -!- motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 01:56:07 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 01:56:55 -!- kahu [~kahu@c213-89-204-206.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Quit reason] 01:57:25 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:47 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:06 motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has joined #lisp 02:01:58 Hey, I'm getting a "bad initialization error" with my flet form, but I can't see what's wrong. Any ideas? http://paste.lisp.org/display/140573 02:02:59 -!- nightfly [sage@destiny.cat.pdx.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:04:27 Petit_Dejeuner_: you forgot to close the bindings of the first let. 02:05:32 thanks 02:07:07 download [~user@dhcp154.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 02:07:37 nightfly [sage@destiny.cat.pdx.edu] has joined #lisp 02:09:55 -!- StallmanIsGod [~prhodes@2001:470:e435:2:9eb7:dff:fec3:d408] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:10:29 strobegen [~Adium@188.168.72.225] has joined #lisp 02:10:39 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:17:56 -!- WarWeasle [~Kaltara@172.242.21.170] has quit [Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )] 02:19:45 qw3rtman [~qw3rtman@pool-71-252-177-42.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:21:45 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.79.68] has joined #lisp 02:22:14 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-mzpdmuicyuzcpltz] has joined #lisp 02:26:13 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.79.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:33:25 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@194.228.11.172] has joined #lisp 02:34:43 nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fedb:a448] has joined #lisp 02:36:39 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-222-63-213.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:37:14 TDog [~chatzilla@67-1-224-200.tcso.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:37:15 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 02:37:32 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 02:38:26 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-231-160.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:47:22 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ejohnson] 02:51:12 -!- optikalmouse [~omouse@69-165-245-60.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:53:07 sheilong [~sabayonus@unaffiliated/sheilong] has joined #lisp 02:54:26 prxq_ [~mommer@x2f651bf.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lisp 02:54:55 -!- prxq [~mommer@x2f6c54f.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:02:13 -!- download [~user@dhcp154.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:02:51 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:05:44 -!- desophos [~desophos@cpe-23-240-149-52.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:14:57 -!- sellout- [~Adium@97-118-116-71.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:16:39 sellout- [~Adium@97-118-116-71.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:08 pjb` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-157-239.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 03:20:53 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:21:14 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.115.245.152] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.1] 03:21:35 -!- pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-206-195.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:27:59 -!- doomlord_ [~servitor@host86-184-12-200.range86-184.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:34:26 S-expressions are not good at representing abstract syntax trees? 03:35:16 kristof: What makes you say that? 03:36:18 sellout-: I was wondering why Zhivago said that. 03:36:24 I thought they would be excellent for it. 03:36:26 *shrug* 03:39:28 one could consider s-expressions bad for directly representing annotated (e.g. with source positions) ASTs; my understanding is that lisps which track source positions of forms do it with a lookup table on the side 03:42:51 -!- kristof [~kristof@unaffiliated/kristof] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:43:41 they're fsvo good for visual repr and prototyping 03:44:58 kristof: I suggest thinking through how you'd handle annotations with s-exps. 03:45:01 doomlord_ [~servitor@host86-184-12-200.range86-184.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 03:45:31 There's no where inside an s-exp to annotate, so you'd need to wrap the s-exp in an annotating s-exp, at the least. 03:45:32 WarWeasle [~Kaltara@172.242.21.170] has joined #lisp 03:45:52 Then you'd need to distinguish the annotating s-exps clearly, and make sure they are carried around properly. 03:46:27 You can do it, but it becomes more complex because the annotations cannot extend into another dimension -- they become part of the necessary structure. 03:47:13 are you aware that he got disconnected? 03:47:27 there are logs, ast least 03:47:53 XD 03:49:47 Doesn't racket have something like "annotated sexps" for macro hygiene? 03:51:44 -!- WarWeasle [~Kaltara@172.242.21.170] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:53:03 WarWeasle [~Kaltara@172.242.21.170] has joined #lisp 03:53:05 -!- bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: bgs100] 03:57:47 StallmanIsGod [~prhodes@cpe-076-182-089-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:58:53 -!- yrdz [~p_adams@unaffiliated/p-adams/x-7117614] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:08:48 -!- cjwelborn is now known as pyval 04:09:23 -!- pyval is now known as cjwelborn 04:10:26 -!- WarWeasle [~Kaltara@172.242.21.170] has quit [Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )] 04:15:24 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-108-42-99-156.snfcca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:18:04 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 04:19:06 n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:f96f:a615:23db:4f87] has joined #lisp 04:21:41 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.79.68] has joined #lisp 04:24:37 -!- WoutvdW [~kilian@host-216-220-114-135.dsl.bway.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:26:38 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@78.171.79.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:30:29 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:32:39 -!- Bike [~Glossina@67-5-231-160.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:33:19 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:34:24 -!- xan__ [~xan@80.174.78.153.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:34:33 Bike [~Glossina@67-5-224-250.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:45:24 conjecTech [~alex@c-98-251-50-173.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:52:48 speckle [~speckle@c-76-111-8-161.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:55:12 alezost [~user@128-70-193-19.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 04:57:25 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:01:23 -!- wchun [~wchun@81-233-226-189-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:04:26 wchun [~wchun@81-233-226-189-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 05:04:32 -!- wchun [~wchun@81-233-226-189-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:05:06 kristof [~kristof@unaffiliated/kristof] has joined #lisp 05:05:37 desophos [~desophos@cpe-23-240-149-52.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:05:38 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:08:15 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:13:20 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.201.68] has quit [Quit: ...] 05:13:28 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-mzpdmuicyuzcpltz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:18:19 WoutvdW [~kilian@ool-4a5917ea.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:18:42 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.140] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:20:15 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:20:49 STilda [~kvirc@188.162.166.38] has joined #lisp 05:21:51 -!- qw3rtman [~qw3rtman@pool-71-252-177-42.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:28:28 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-193-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:31:39 -!- aftershave [~textual@h-238-41.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 05:32:00 nug700_ [~nug700@70-58-115-240.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:32:31 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:32:47 -!- nug700 [~nug700@71-35-75-94.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:33:51 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:34:11 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-193-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:44:13 Loymoev [~loymoev@host-99-152-66-217.spbmts.ru] has joined #lisp 05:45:47 motiondude [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has joined #lisp 05:47:29 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:48:24 -!- motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:48:38 -!- motiondude is now known as motionman 05:52:33 oxum [~oxum@122.164.33.240] has joined #lisp 05:55:52 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Quit: Automatic restart triggered due to persistent lag. 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discussion of all free software and Internet freedom related things! :-) 08:13:53 errr? 08:13:59 -!- fsf-free [~xfce-x64@gateway/tor-sasl/xfce-x64] has left #lisp 08:14:03 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-26-17.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:14:50 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-94-147.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:20:55 sh-armv7l: I, for one, welcome our new confused overlords 08:21:11 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:22:16 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 08:22:29 lol 08:24:20 Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 08:26:02 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:26:23 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@c-67-189-17-39.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:26:55 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Client Quit] 08:27:08 dmiles_afk 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[~sthalik@2001:41d0:2:9d7b:cafe::1042] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:50:32 maxpeck [~a@unaffiliated/maxpeck] has joined #lisp 08:54:32 ogamita` [~t@tru75-h02-31-38-72-69.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 08:55:14 sh-armv7l [~sthalik@2001:41d0:2:9d7b:cafe::1042] has joined #lisp 08:56:38 -!- ogamita` is now known as ogamita 09:01:03 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:f96f:a615:23db:4f87] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:02:00 round-robin [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has joined #lisp 09:04:33 JPeterson [~JPeterson@81-233-152-121-no83.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 09:04:34 -!- conjecTech [~alex@c-98-251-50-173.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:05:44 -!- doesthiswork [~Adium@98.145.118.186] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:16:15 arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-fqceikqrhngvofka] has joined #lisp 09:18:35 My package :uses :common-lisp. In my package, I'd like to name a class LOG. Within my package, I shadow the symbol log, but my defclass log form leads to "warning: Redefining class LOG visible from package COMMON-LISP." Is it a good idea to wrap shadows in eval-when? 09:18:54 KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9FDE7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:23:21 hiroakip [~hiroaki@bi1.roaming.dfn.de] has joined #lisp 09:24:09 that shouldn't be necessary 09:25:52 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@2a02:1205:505a:5a70:223:54ff:fe38:82c2] has joined #lisp 09:25:55 http://paste.lisp.org/display/140579 09:26:24 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:27:29 mal___: Ah. I did say shadow in a top level expression by itself. 09:28:11 if you do that in a separate file for the package definition it would also be ok 09:28:30 you need to do it before the form defining the LOG class is read 09:28:37 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@bi1.roaming.dfn.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:29:05 generally, it's a good idea to stick to defpackage 09:29:21 put the defpackage form in a file of its own 09:30:26 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:30:55 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 09:31:52 ogamita` [~t@tru75-h02-31-38-72-69.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 09:32:46 chr````: (defpackage "MY-PACKAGE" (:use "CL") (:shadow "LOG") (:export "LOG")) (in-package "MY-PACKAGE") (defclass log () ()) ; no problem. 09:33:06 -!- ogamita is now known as Guest53030 09:33:22 -!- ogamita` is now known as ogamita 09:34:16 ogamita`: Would I really want to export log? Wouldn't that surprise someone who'd use my package and then did maths? 09:34:58 chr````: it cannot, because of the :shadow. One would have to write: (defpackage "CLIENT" (:use "CL" "MY-PACKAGE") (:shadowing-import-from "MY-PACKAGE" "LOG")) 09:35:08 or :shadowing-import-from "CL". 09:35:29 yeah that's one of the problems conduits are supposed to help solve 09:35:33 -!- Guest53030 [~t@tru75-h02-31-38-72-69.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:35:56 It's not a problem it's a feature. 09:36:40 The reason why defpackage is better written in a separate file, is that it's undefined what happens when you evaluate several times a defpackage for the same package. Some implementations may have problems. So when developping, if you have a separate file, you can reload it without reloading the defpackage form. 09:38:12 milosn [~milosn@82-68-174-118.in-addr.centralnic.net] has joined #lisp 09:39:47 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.6.8] has joined #lisp 09:40:37 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 09:41:22 mbobak [~mbobak@81.89.53.154.vnet.sk] has joined #lisp 09:41:25 -!- mbobak [~mbobak@81.89.53.154.vnet.sk] has left #lisp 09:43:31 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:45:09 -!- arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-fqceikqrhngvofka] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:47:00 -!- milosn [~milosn@82-68-174-118.in-addr.centralnic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:47:28 milosn [~milosn@82-68-174-118.in-addr.centralnic.net] has joined #lisp 09:47:41 -!- milosn [~milosn@82-68-174-118.in-addr.centralnic.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:48:40 vaporatorius [~vaporator@240.Red-88-5-230.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:50:12 arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-blyckpibsednwmzd] has joined #lisp 09:52:42 milosn [~milosn@82-68-174-118.in-addr.centralnic.net] has joined #lisp 09:52:53 -!- milosn [~milosn@82-68-174-118.in-addr.centralnic.net] has quit [Read error: No buffer space available] 09:54:19 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFF3A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:57:47 milosn [~milosn@82-68-174-118.in-addr.centralnic.net] has joined #lisp 10:01:25 ASau [~user@p54AFF3A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:03:00 pavelpenev [~quassel@melontech.com] has joined #lisp 10:05:17 -!- karswell [~user@87.113.101.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:07:19 ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has joined #lisp 10:10:14 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:11:19 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:12:15 leo2007 [~leo@123.115.245.152] has joined #lisp 10:14:41 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:17:11 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.33.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:18:31 oxum [~oxum@122.174.27.45] has joined #lisp 10:18:44 EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:3954:b675:4d33:eb64] has joined #lisp 10:22:25 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 10:31:38 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 10:37:20 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:39:19 is there a Common Lisp driver to talk to Sybase? 10:42:50 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 10:42:51 -!- _5kg_ [~zifeitong@60.191.2.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:47:30 -!- paul0 [~paul0@177.132.169.73] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:51:09 -!- desophos [~desophos@cpe-23-240-149-52.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:51:59 paul0 [~paul0@177.16.202.42] has joined #lisp 10:52:03 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.105.67] has joined #lisp 10:53:32 There was something in clisp: https://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/lang/lisp/impl/clisp/0.html 10:53:49 but this is really old, I don't recall having seen it in recent releases of clisp. 10:54:16 In anycase, sybase like the other databases have a C client library, which should be easily enough to use thru CFFI.\ 10:55:14 At the time, sybase was distributed for free on NeXTSTEP and a few other systems, hence the interface :-) 10:55:27 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 10:57:40 hiroakip [~hiroaki@bi1.roaming.dfn.de] has joined #lisp 10:57:49 shifty` [~user@124-149-115-74.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:58:13 -!- maxpeck [~a@unaffiliated/maxpeck] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 10:58:30 -!- vaporatorius is now known as Vaporatorius 10:58:55 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 10:59:31 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@52.200-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 10:59:35 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@52.200-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Changing host] 10:59:35 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 11:00:14 -!- scoofy [scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:00:29 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:01:10 maxpeck [~a@unaffiliated/maxpeck] has joined #lisp 11:01:47 -!- gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:01:48 -!- maxpeck [~a@unaffiliated/maxpeck] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:02:38 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-193-19.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:02:53 add^_ [~user@m176-70-201-196.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 11:03:01 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.174.27.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:03:20 gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 11:03:43 oxum [~oxum@122.164.157.173] has joined #lisp 11:04:47 maxpeck [~a@unaffiliated/maxpeck] has joined #lisp 11:07:07 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-71.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:09:18 I'm trying to use ITERATE. Can anybody explain why I am getting daft errors like "the variable I is unbound" when attempting to (iter (for i from 1 to 5) (collect i)) ? (Using SBCL here.) 11:11:44 <|3b|> did you import the symbols from iterate package? 11:12:46 |3b|: I did a (quicklisp:quickload :iterate) 11:12:47 (ql:quickload :iterate) (use-package :iter) (iter (for i from 1 to 5) (collect i)) ; works perfeclty well here. 11:13:00 <|3b|> quickload just installs/loads it 11:13:27 <|3b|> loading it creates a "package", which is cl term for what other languages might call a "namespace" 11:14:07 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@bi1.roaming.dfn.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:14:10 alezost [~user@128-70-193-19.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 11:15:23 -!- 14WABPYY2 [~Pullphing@c-24-13-69-42.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [] 11:16:23 incidentally, (iterate:iter (for i from ...)) has the same behaviour. 11:16:24 <|3b|> ogamita's example is one way of accessing the symbols from that package, or for larger projects you would normally specify which symbols to import in the DEFPACKAGE form, with :USE or :IMPORT-FROM 11:16:40 <|3b|> (iterate:iter (iterate:for ...)) 11:16:55 |3b|: i bet you that solves it... 11:17:12 echo-area [~user@111.196.4.86] has joined #lisp 11:17:58 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.105.67] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:18:42 hiroakip [~hiroaki@bi1.roaming.dfn.de] has joined #lisp 11:19:52 qw3rtman [~qw3rtman@pool-71-252-177-42.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:21:40 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 11:23:10 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:23:25 Right. That /was/ educational. Apparently I have just discovered that in-package and use-package are different. 11:23:34 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 11:26:02 setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.241] has joined #lisp 11:26:15 -!- qw3rtman [~qw3rtman@pool-71-252-177-42.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:26:17 so to tide me over in the interim before I fully grok CL's packages, ASDF and the rest... if I want to use ITERATE, then I first do (quicklisp:quickload :iterate), followed by a (use-package :iter). Is this correct enough for me in the short term? 11:27:48 in the REPL, yes, you'd do that. 11:27:50 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 11:28:15 In a program ,you'd write (defpackage "YOUR-PROGRAM" (:use "COMMON-LISP" "ITER")) (in-package "YOUR-PROGRAM")  11:28:36 ogamita: yes... that sounds ominous. 11:28:53 ogamita: and... you answered what I was going to ask. 11:29:06 Why? 11:29:12 ominous? 11:30:05 In a program you need a more declarative form like defpackage, to let the compiler do a better job. 11:30:51 You could still use the interactive form but it would be more complex to use in a way that lets you build repeatably the same image from the same source files. 11:31:25 ogamita: oh, I've come across that chestnut when loading code that I'd previously used in a REPL session. I knew it had to do with packages; but I've been deferring learning about that since there's only so much one man can absorb at once. 11:31:49 ogamita: so I suppose today is the day I start down that path I've been avoiding! 11:32:04 knob [~knob@76.76.202.245] has joined #lisp 11:32:08 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@81.214.207.166] has joined #lisp 11:35:27 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.241] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:35:35 Thank you |s3b|, |ogamita| - my iterate issue is solved - and I know what I need to concentrate on learning next. Happy days. Thx. 11:38:40 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.245] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:38:57 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:39:11 knob [~knob@76.76.202.245] has joined #lisp 11:40:03 -!- motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:41:24 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.115.245.152] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:44:18 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:44:59 leo2007 [~leo@123.115.245.152] has joined #lisp 11:45:49 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9FDE7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:52:25 -!- lupine [~lupine@unaffiliated/lupine-85/x-7392152] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:52:48 lupine_85 [~lupine@unaffiliated/lupine-85/x-7392152] has joined #lisp 11:53:21 -!- lupine_85 is now known as lupine 11:53:52 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.157.173] has quit [Quit: ...] 11:55:05 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@194.228.11.172] has 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gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-81.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:32:44 lyanchih [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:34:09 Adlai [~Adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 13:35:08 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@81.214.207.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:35:22 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 13:36:18 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:36:32 francogrex [franco@162-202-67-158.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:38:25 in cond when a condition turns out true, the processing of other conditions is stopped right? for example (cond ((= a 1) (setf a 2)) ((= b 1) (setf b 2)) ... will not process b if a is truely = 1... 13:38:50 Yes, it is short-circuiting 13:38:51 francogrex: yes. 13:39:24 ok, for handling multiple sitiations then one should use maultiple if or when clauses? 13:39:51 -!- effy [~x@114.253.38.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:40:18 Yes. 13:41:50 ok 13:43:18 Pullphinger [~Pullphing@12.40.23.68] has joined #lisp 13:43:51 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 13:44:43 cond is equivalent to a chain of ifs. 13:45:17 (if a b (if c d (if e f ... 13:45:21 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 13:46:10 -!- hyperboreean [~none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:46:21 hyperboreean [~none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has joined #lisp 13:47:56 practical, but may also be useful to add a cond* macro to replace multiple when(s) and process all conditions... 13:49:41 Huh? 13:50:06 Isn't that just (progn (when t1 a1) (when t2 a2) ...)? 13:50:25 you don't even need progn 13:50:47 *replace multiple when(s)* 13:51:51 Personally, I think that sticking a star on the end to say "special version of xxx" is a really stupid approach. :) 13:51:53 (cond* ((t1 a) (t2 b) ...) 13:52:12 Now we just need cond** to make it even better. 13:52:48 I don't see much utility in doing that. 13:53:06 Of course suit yourself, it is Lisp. 13:54:11 hugoduncan [~user@bas1-montreal08-1096686679.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 13:54:30 yes cond** will not only serially go through the conditions but also can be equivalent to a let* binding.... (cond** ((t1 a) (a b) ..) lol 13:55:04 -!- Pullphinger [~Pullphing@12.40.23.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:56:46 -!- hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1096686679.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:56:47 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:00:00 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@wlan240109.rz.uni-leipzig.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:28 Pullphinger [~Pullphing@12.40.23.68] has joined #lisp 14:01:59 -!- francogrex [franco@162-202-67-158.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:02:06 francogrex [franco@162-202-67-158.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:03:16 -!- francogrex [franco@162-202-67-158.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 14:09:37 -!- hugoduncan is now known as hugod 14:10:13 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 14:15:44 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:18:38 Shinmera 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keen_ [~blackened@p3b920bd5.wmaxuq00.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 19:05:22 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 19:07:32 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 19:08:01 -!- pjb is now known as Guest14763 19:17:21 -!- conjecTech [~alex@c-98-251-50-173.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has left #lisp 19:19:08 -!- Guest14763 is now known as pjb` 19:19:42 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 19:19:45 -!- genericus [~generic@68-112-75-203.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Out] 19:20:49 -!- xotedend [~quassel@23.25.110.173] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:21:03 n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:f96f:a615:23db:4f87] has joined #lisp 19:21:05 xotedend [~quassel@23-25-110-173-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:00 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-131-232.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 19:27:53 Poenikatu [~user@pdpc/supporter/bronze/poenikatu] has joined #lisp 19:28:59 I'm working my way through Graham's ACL and have reached the chapter on functions. Why must the body of a function be repeated in a defun which uses (setf f) as the name of the function? Is that just the way that the defun macro was defined? 19:29:41 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:41 exotca [uid17279@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ktpmnhulmrpqzamz] has joined #lisp 19:30:38 Poenikatu: I have no clue what you're asking here...You don't have to repeat any body. 19:30:52 Poenikatu: can you use paste.lisp.org to show us? 19:31:02 dlowe: Will do. 19:31:52 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:34:08 Paste is at http://paste.lisp.org/+30H4. 19:34:35 Poenikatu: That's a setf function. You're defining a place for which setf knows how to setf. 19:34:37 i cannot see a repeated body 19:34:47 -!- fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:34:58 H4ns: The repeated body is "(car lst)" 19:34:58 oh, I see the misunderstanding 19:35:17 b 19:35:20 Poenikatu: Those are two different ways of doing the same thing. Graham is demonstrating a setf function. 19:35:28 sorry 19:35:39 dsevilla [~user@120.Red-88-25-202.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:36:00 So does that mean that doing what Graham says is how to ensure that a user-defined function returns a place rather than a value? 19:36:01 Poenikatu: The first is a regular defun function. The second is a setf function, which is essentially telling setf how to handle setfing a primo. 19:36:15 -!- optikalmouse [~omouse@69-165-245-60.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:36:30 Poenikatu: No. setf returns the value of the last form. 19:36:38 optikalmouse [~omouse@69-165-245-60.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 19:36:50 places aren't a thing you can return 19:37:03 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:37:11 Poenikatu: By writing it the second way, you can now do (setf primo val list) 19:37:19 In the 2nd definition, the body of the first definition is repeated. Now supposing that primo was a vastly more complicated function. Would one need to repeat the whole of its body? 19:37:24 Also, I don't know why he writes "lst" instead of list. Separate namespaces and all that :) 19:37:51 Poenikatu: you can just put that vastly complicated body into a separate function and call that 19:37:52 kristof: Probably because at that point he has not yet dealt with namespaces. 19:37:53 Poenikatu: in the second one the (car lst) form is a place. setf expands to something totally different. 19:37:55 Poenikatu: you're not going to write both the second and first definition in the same program. You're going to do one or the other. 19:37:57 fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 19:38:08 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:38:10 kristof: i think you might have misread the paste. 19:38:16 -!- n0n0 [~n0n0___@2602:306:c410:500:f96f:a615:23db:4f87] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:38:17 kristof: the first function is a reader and the second a writer. 19:38:19 So why not use 'primo in the second definition? 19:38:40 Bike: I did? 19:38:43 Poenikatu: because 'primo is not a place 19:38:46 Poenikatu: because you're defining how (setf primo) works. you can't use an undefined (setf primo) in your definition of (setf primo). 19:38:53 Oh, right 19:38:55 I tried a setf defun without the initial defun and the debugger complains of an undefined function 19:38:57 One is destrcutive 19:39:41 kristof: no. 19:39:48 kristof: they do totally different things. 19:39:53 Right 19:39:58 One just returns the car, the other actually sets the car. 19:40:27 Poenikatu: works fine for me. 19:40:27 Unfortunately, Graham does not continue with an example of how to use primo 19:41:32 Poenikatu: try it yourself: (defvar *foo* '(1 2)) (setf (primo *foo) 2) *foo* 19:41:38 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:41:48 Poenikatu: you'll have to add a start to the (setf... invocation, sorry 19:41:55 star, not start. 19:41:57 damn 19:42:14 H4ns: I think like that sometimes! :-) 19:42:47 Poenikatu: i hope i could convey my point 19:42:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:43:42 Right, I've just tried that example. That's taught me something. 19:44:24 Bike: What works fine for you? 19:44:37 doing (defun (setf primo) (val lst) (setf (car lst) val)) without defining primo 19:45:05 Bike: Which Lisp are you using? 19:45:12 sbcl 19:45:20 but it's conformant to define setf functions like that 19:45:21 Bike: Me too. That's odd 19:45:34 why don't you try it again and tell me the exact error. 19:45:38 or warning. 19:46:03 -!- Praise- is now known as Praise 19:47:01 Bike: You're right. It works for me too. So, in fact, Graham's two examples are confusing because the first defun is unnecessary if one is going to use the second defun. 19:47:08 -!- exotca [uid17279@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ktpmnhulmrpqzamz] has quit [] 19:47:12 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:47:22 Poenikatu: no, the first defun lets you /read/ the place 19:47:34 Poenikatu: if you just define the setf than (+ 4 (primo '(3 2))) won't work. 19:49:20 Bike: Yes, you're right again. It appears that using a function to return a result rather than a place for setf needs a different definition. I shall just have to learn this. Trying to understand it is beyond me. 19:50:06 Bike: Your last example gives an `undefined function' error. 19:50:23 right, because you haven't defined a function "primo". 19:50:26 Thanks guys. That has cleared the air somewhat. 19:51:34 -!- Jubb [~Jubb@pool-72-66-106-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:53:16 corni [~corni@drupal.org/user/136353/view] has joined #lisp 20:00:33 [5~[5~[6~[6~[6~[5~ 20:00:39 oops 20:01:08 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:20 feel free to ignore that 20:01:41 I'm trying, but you keep bringing it up 20:01:49 :) 20:05:10 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-236-112.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:05:45 -!- STilda [~kvirc@188.162.166.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:08:02 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-72-66-106-10.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:30 zack-bitcoin [~zack@97-93-143-106.static.rvsd.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:10:39 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:11:06 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12:25 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 20:15:15 zickzackv [~faot@p5DDB06E0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:18:14 -!- ggole [~ggole@106-68-247-198.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 20:19:58 wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:05 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 20:23:27 -!- xotedend [~quassel@23-25-110-173-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:23:36 xotedend [~quassel@23-25-110-173-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:48 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 20:27:02 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:27:29 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 20:30:27 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:31:12 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 20:31:14 HANDLER-CASEs are a lot like methods, aren't they? But there's no method-combination, in this case. 20:31:31 Or can you do... handler-combinations? 20:32:12 um, only in that there's some type dispatching 20:32:23 there's type dispatching in TYPECASE too 20:32:29 Ok 20:32:37 I didn't know about typecase. 20:32:53 Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:10 To say they are like methods is to ignore a lot of significant complexity in CLOS, isn't it? :P 20:33:16 yeah, I think so :) 20:33:29 But conditions are objects so it is not entirely fare 20:33:31 *unfair. 20:33:59 i'd say it is a similar theme applied in a different area of the language 20:34:09 -!- sword [~sword@c-24-21-33-225.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:34:55 Ah, I like that answer. :) 20:36:43 if you consider "dispatch on a thing" the extent of GFs :P 20:37:06 then COND is like methods, because it can dispatch on things like types! 20:37:53 Well, methods in CLOS are restricted to dispatch upon class and identity, but COND uses arbitrary predicates. 20:38:53 right, but it's still dispatch and you can use types, so ignoring all the complexity and flexibility of methods and comparing just on that one point, they're clearly very similar ;) 20:39:21 No, you can't use types with clos methods. 20:39:44 It's restricted to classes so that a lattice is formed. 20:39:45 s/types/classes 20:40:15 You can say that they are similar, but it pretty much short-changes each in the bargain. :) 20:40:22 whoosh 20:40:33 -!- kristof [~kristof@unaffiliated/kristof] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:41:50 If methods could dispatch on types, then I'd be agreeing with you. :) 20:45:20 nug700 [~nug700@71-223-2-35.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:52 bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:49:00 -!- stuckie [~stuckie@88.208.208.174] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 20:52:13 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-84-44-209-225.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:52:27 oleo 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[~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 21:44:53 -!- indicator [~indicator@91.210.103.45] has quit [K-Lined] 21:50:53 ejbs [~user@h82-117-106-112.dynamic.se.alltele.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:08 Hey guys. What library would you recommend for lazy evaluation in CL? 21:51:53 normanrichards [~textual@cpe-24-27-51-104.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:53:59 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:54:49 Also... What's happened to CLiki? 21:54:58 ejbs, what do you want to do? 21:55:15 (Basically I'm going to say: if you want to write Haskell, it might be better to just write Haskell.) 21:56:29 ejbs: it's still there on port 8080 21:56:30 there's http://common-lisp.net/projects/clazy/ 21:57:07 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:37 ejbs: Have you considered futures instead of lazy evaluation? 21:58:00 Quadrescence: Hehe, I'm gonna work through Okasaki's Functional Datastructures book, so that's probably the right thing to say ;-). I'm not that experienced with Haskell though, and I'm more interested in the datastructures than the language. It's a tradeoff, I know 21:58:14 jasom: Aah. Why isn't it on port 80 then? 21:59:23 ejbs, CLAZY is one thing, like adeht said. I also rolled something similar to CLAZY before I knew that existed here: https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/lisp-random/raw/390ade01effd8bc65952e3b736f3a71c13177144/delay.lisp 22:00:51 fiveop [~fiveop@p5DDC42B5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:01:32 Quadrescence: Both'd probably suffice, good to know what my options are. Both are probably entirely satisfactionary options 22:03:26 you may also want to check out http://common-lisp.net/projects/fset/Site/ 22:04:21 adeht: Oh hey, that might be super interesting to read in the future, thanks 22:05:11 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:05:12 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.104.230] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:06:48 ASau` [~user@p54AFFCB3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:08:23 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 22:08:38 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:10:03 -!- ASau [~user@p54AFF3A5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:11:21 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-193-19.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:12:03 -!- corni [~corni@drupal.org/user/136353/view] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:13:12 desophos [~desophos@cpe-23-240-149-52.socal.res.rr.com] has joined 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