00:00:22 chenjf [~communi@58.251.146.200] has joined #lisp 00:00:22 JuanDaugherty [~juand@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:00:36 -!- vaporatorius [~vaporator@130.red-80-29-103.adsl.static.ccgg.telefonica.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:01:50 And it was byte-code interpreted to save space 00:02:03 (plus portability) 00:03:23 -!- antonv [5daba1b0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.171.161.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:04:29 Sgeo [~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:31 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p5DD9DA7D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:06:38 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.47.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:08:20 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 00:10:59 -!- chenjf [~communi@58.251.146.200] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:11:00 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.92.112] has joined #lisp 00:11:49 haxx [~Rob@135-23-80-105.cpe.pppoe.ca] has 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-!- tatsushiko [~tatsushik@250-81-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 01:51:39 How do people usually work with their own custom readtables? Do you create a readtable and then read a file with it or do people switch readtables while in the middle of loading a file? 01:52:16 I think that generally people rebind a new readtable, read a file, then unbind. 01:53:21 LOAD binds *readtable* before loading - from that it sounds like a normal thing to modify *readtable* while loading. 01:53:58 -!- MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 01:54:27 interpol has enable- and disable- functions, but i don't really use readtable mods 01:54:50 Well, load and read are a bit different. 01:55:12 gko_ [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:57:01 I need to generate a lot of C++ template code and I was thinking of interleaving Common Lisp sexps with C++ code. Or I can just use Google pump. 01:58:05 *drmeister* thinks he'll just use Google pump. 01:58:57 michael_lee [~michael_l@1.80.32.115] has joined #lisp 02:01:59 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host164.186-108-164.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:02:34 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.107.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:03:53 k0001 [~k0001@186.153.79.108] has joined #lisp 02:04:24 antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-82-201.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 02:04:30 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-221-26.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 02:06:35 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.16.166] has joined #lisp 02:07:00 -!- rpg_ [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: rpg_] 02:07:50 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.16.166] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 02:08:25 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.16.166] has joined #lisp 02:09:33 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:10:09 araujo 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[~cory@247.sub-70-194-195.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:51:47 oxum [~oxum@122.164.188.93] has joined #lisp 04:00:45 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.16.166] has joined #lisp 04:02:33 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:21 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.16.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:05:47 -!- LiamH [~none@pool-173-73-130-210.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:06:39 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.16.166] has joined #lisp 04:11:11 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.16.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:18:26 kristof [~kristof@unaffiliated/kristof] has joined #lisp 04:18:27 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 04:19:37 banannagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:20:12 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:20:26 -!- banannagram is now known as bananagram 04:22:20 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:22:25 -!- francis_wolke [~user@2601:9:4180:468:e056:6e0a:d1ab:bfae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:23:36 -!- Pullphinger [~Pullphing@c-24-13-69-42.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [] 04:24:14 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 04:24:39 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 04:29:04 motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has joined #lisp 04:31:25 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 04:34:21 sthalik [sthalik@aurora.misaki.pl] has joined #lisp 04:34:38 hey, what kind of algorithm is more applicable for chatterbots than markov chains? 04:36:23 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:36:31 Markov chains have the problem of lacking generalization. 04:36:48 It depends on the problem that you want your chatterbot to solve. 04:37:28 Zhivago, not turing test, but generally being a nuisance, and general hijinks 04:37:41 nothing abusive, that is 04:37:47 Excessively vague. 04:38:08 Zhivago, being puzzling enough not to be considered meaningless chomskybot 04:38:18 the issue here 04:38:22 A sufficiently annoying bot should be able to pick out the noun of a sentence and replace it with "your mom". 04:38:59 is that objective training function without human interaction seems hard... neural nets? 04:39:10 markov chains can be component in some more interesting functions 04:39:24 p_l, aren't these orthogonal to neural nets? 04:39:41 sthalik: somehow I don't see a neural net doing good with chatbot 04:40:34 p_l, perhaps constrain it enough to input random gibberish, but compare it for similarity to a real text corpus... could be smoking crack (?) 04:40:44 eh. not totally random, but not just parrot 04:40:48 bad crack 04:40:59 check out @sthalik/cl-annoybot 04:41:04 not now 04:41:07 got a lot of stuff 04:41:10 sure 04:41:26 -!- MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 04:41:31 was thinking of curve fitting too, for no specific reason 04:41:40 my math's shoddy, but got the general principle 04:41:59 -!- cneira [~cneira@pc-33-7-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:42:14 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:44:56 for some reason, whenever I hear about neural nets, I get itchy. People seem to think they are some kind of golden bullet :/ 04:45:15 p_l, they help calculate objective scoring function, don't they? 04:46:27 p_l: you ain't the only one 04:46:42 well, what else than a 2-elt markov chain could be used? 04:46:50 the issue with NLP is that the corpus is polish 04:46:57 that's an issue? 04:47:01 contains numerous misspellings, and so on 04:47:06 they can be used for that, yes. But in general, they end up a function of X inputs to Y outputs, that can be trained, but usually without perception of time 04:47:20 surely the bot should have just as many misspellings to be realistic 04:47:34 yeah, but wrt NLP 04:47:37 sthalik: a tree of markov chains? 04:47:44 with q-learning applied? 04:47:44 p_l, that's what i have atm 04:47:50 q-learning? 04:48:18 desophos [~desophos@cpe-23-240-149-52.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:48:36 it's another, very generalized way for an algorithm based on markov process to learn 04:48:52 and it doesn't need a model of the learned behaviour 04:49:06 how about this 04:49:10 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q-learning 04:49:20 take a corpus, separate it per person 04:49:54 try to generate from one person, then see if it "makes sense" (hard part) (nearest match?) from the whole corpus, or another one 04:49:58 bleh 04:50:22 yeah, bad cess 04:50:33 sthalik: I was thinking of taking a general corpus with some semantic data, "learn" from it certain structures, then map other things to that corpus 04:50:58 adding a bit of structural knowledge to the NLP 04:52:37 p_l, how about evolution of the scoring function? 04:52:56 q-learning 04:52:59 hehe 04:53:01 done in a tree form 04:54:09 interesting 04:55:04 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:55:36 which reinforcement learning book would one get from genesis, then? 04:55:40 *g* 04:56:33 no idea 04:56:38 don't remember good title 04:56:41 *titles 04:58:23 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:00:29 bah, objective function... 05:00:57 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.16.166] has joined #lisp 05:05:18 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.16.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:06:41 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.16.166] has joined #lisp 05:08:36 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:08:42 viterbi? 05:08:53 -!- jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-24-13-132-179.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 05:09:25 +hmm 05:09:55 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:11:10 nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 05:11:23 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.16.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:16:02 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.107] has joined #lisp 05:18:35 -!- asedeno [~asedeno@66.102.14.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:19:29 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-162-208.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:20:02 -!- desophos [~desophos@cpe-23-240-149-52.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:23:13 -!- syrinx [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:25:04 francis_wolke [~user@c-98-207-155-161.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:29:19 pierpa [~user@host241-242-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 05:30:47 alezost [~user@128-70-201-172.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:31:10 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:31:26 thelorax123 [~nodebot@165.225.138.217] has joined #lisp 05:32:13 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 05:33:37 -!- zenoli [~pk@109.201.152.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 05:34:41 zenoli [~pk@109.201.152.229] has joined #lisp 05:37:12 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:37:20 nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has joined #lisp 05:39:16 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-68.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:44:09 ggole [~ggole@220-253-128-225.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:46:48 -!- Poenikatu [~Poenikatu@pdpc/supporter/bronze/poenikatu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:50:08 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:51:50 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:57:01 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-163-4.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:00:03 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.164.188.93] has quit [Quit: ...] 06:00:45 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.16.166] has joined #lisp 06:02:28 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 06:02:39 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:04:40 nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 06:04:43 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:05:31 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.16.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:06:42 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.16.166] has joined #lisp 06:09:20 desophos [~desophos@cpe-23-240-149-52.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:11:07 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.16.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:13:40 -!- thelorax123 [~nodebot@165.225.138.217] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:14:29 thelorax123 [~nodebot@165.225.138.217] has joined #lisp 06:15:09 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:15:46 asedeno [~asedeno@66.102.14.16] has joined #lisp 06:16:10 -!- breakds [~breakds@c-24-0-147-122.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:16:30 pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 06:18:27 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:20:09 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 06:22:46 zeebrah [~zeebrah@unaffiliated/zeebrah] has joined #lisp 06:22:50 -!- deadghost [~deadghost@pool-173-55-80-153.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:24:35 STilda [~kvirc@188.162.167.32] has joined #lisp 06:24:41 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:24:48 deadghost [~deadghost@pool-173-55-80-153.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:25:43 JuanDaugherty [~juand@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:29:35 sthalik: That idea is quite hilarious. Which channel would it idle in? 06:31:15 MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:32:59 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 06:33:04 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:33:41 #lisp, briefly, I imagine. 06:34:34 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:36:03 ejohnson1 [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:36:04 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:37:57 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:38:39 -!- JuanDaugherty [~juand@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 06:39:21 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.201.5.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:40:49 ...Speaking of Lisp, what usable implementation of coroutines that write and read to channels are there for common lisp? 06:41:57 I see ChanL and Calispel, but hmmm 06:43:35 No, ChanL is for separate *threads* communicating versus channels; not something I really want. I'd prefer for multiple routines to be multiplexed within a single thread, communicating via a channel resource. 06:43:37 JuanDaugherty [~juand@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:43:48 -!- ejohnson1 [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 06:44:04 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:44:08 You'll probably be disappointed, due to the weakness of CL regarding non-blocking i/o. 06:44:31 Which is probably the problem that threads there are primarily addressing. 06:45:06 I had a feeling I would be, but I was hopeful, too 06:45:08 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:45:25 Zhivago: Threads are not a solution, nor an intended solution, to blocking 06:45:26 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:46:03 Well, you're entitled to that opinion, regardless of how inapplicable to reality it appears to be. 06:46:06 Zhivago: Besides, threads are heavy. Sometimes you want to do a lot of things concurrently without spawning one 06:46:50 -!- JuanDaugherty [~juand@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 06:47:00 Sure, which is why things like nodejs were built on the premise of non-blocking from the ground up. 06:47:13 nodejs relies too much on promises 06:47:22 which are nice! 06:47:23 Unfortunately CL was built on the premise of blocking with the exception of interactive input from the ground up. 06:47:39 Which is why you'll find people using threads to avoid blocking the universe. 06:47:47 but I am quite (perhaps temporarily) enamored with communicating sequential processes a la go's 'goroutines' 06:47:57 Zhivago: Yeah, I suppose you're right 06:48:29 Then you'll need to more or less develop your own subdialect of CL that has the nonblocking operations you require and apply the appropiate coroutinization transforms and then avoid using anything that blocks. 06:48:36 I think beach would be interested in asynchronous non-blocking methods in CLIM's design 06:48:49 It's all doable -- it's just a matter of how much pain you're willing to endure. :) 06:49:31 Zhivago: Well, most people accept that latter risk with async stuff anyway. As soon as you deside to do nonblocking, EVERYTHING down the line has to be nonblocking too or it all falls apart 06:49:34 Regarding nodejs -- sure, but given the non-blocking foundations, things like coroutine transforms are straight-forward and safe. 06:49:43 yeah 06:50:34 Zhivago: What's a good foundation for that kind of library, anyway? Put it on top of bordeaux threads, use calispel, etc.? 06:50:36 WAIT. 06:50:41 Calispel is actually exactly what I was looking for. 06:50:53 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 06:51:27 "Because sending and receiving on a channel may block, either operation can time out after a specified amount of time." Never mind. 06:52:54 -!- pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [] 06:54:47 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-176-9-162.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:54:50 KaiQ [~localhost@p578FC5B4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 06:55:53 -!- ggole [~ggole@220-253-128-225.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:56:34 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 06:56:52 Well, there should be some CPS transforms for coroutines around the place. 06:58:34 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:58:42 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-ybqxghbmumvzsqli] has joined #lisp 07:00:48 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:01:07 Kenjin [~kenjin@180.189.170.250] has joined #lisp 07:01:51 Calispel does that kind-of-sort-of 07:02:05 CPS doesn't imply non-blocking, right? 07:02:31 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:02:33 Anyway, I think I'll talk to whoever maintains calispel and we'll see if we can't squeeze some non-blocking asynchronous goodness out of common lisp 07:02:57 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:03:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 07:03:10 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:03:29 I remember reading somewhere from someone that coroutines were pretty hard to rig cl with, because everything ended up looking like continuation-passing-style and common lisp does really truly have continuations. 07:03:38 I won't pretend to know how true that statement is. 07:04:47 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.92.112] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:05:36 hmmmm? did you mean CL doesn't have continuations? 07:06:43 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.16.166] has joined #lisp 07:07:22 *shrug* I guess 07:07:42 I don't think it has undelimited continuations. Although to be honest I don't actually see how that would be relevant for coroutines. 07:08:08 you can use undelimited continuations to implement coroutines very easily. 07:08:25 delimited ones too, probably 07:08:36 I wouldn't know, but I'll look into it 07:08:50 There are some good papers with very good reasons explaining why undelimited continuations are bad, though 07:09:00 ...I have them bookmarked, somewhere. 07:09:46 as the ultimate goto, undisciplined use of them tends to make code really hard to reason about 07:10:18 Yeah, I was thinking in my head that it seemed a lot like a goto but I did not want to offend anyone here, especially if that was wrong. 07:10:41 it's really very easily. i don't think it's the canonical way but you can have coroutines be closures with one variable. when you yield you save the continuation in the variable. whenever the coroutine is called it calls the continuation 07:11:08 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.16.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:11:25 CL has no first class continuations, in contrast to scheme. 07:11:40 It has continuations in the sense that C has continuations. :) 07:11:46 Bike: Now I wonder how that would relate to a go-style coroutine, which doesn't actually yield by some token "yield" 07:12:07 oxum [~oxum@122.174.32.117] has joined #lisp 07:12:47 ggole [~ggole@124-148-115-89.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 07:12:48 Well, a goroutine isn't a coroutine, per se -- it's more like a thread with process-like semantics. 07:13:54 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:14:02 Clojure's core.async uses a state machine to multiplex routines onto one thread, and I know the JVM doesn't have coroutines (officially) so I'm sure continuations aren't necessary 07:14:50 I'd really check out go's semantics, because they're really not coroutine semantics at all, afaik. 07:15:06 I don't have a citation at hand but I seem to recall that general unrestricted continuations are more powerful than coroutines 07:15:11 Yes, I know. I thought they would at least be partially related, but it seems not 07:15:31 mal___: continuations scare me. I feel like I could cut myself. 07:15:32 More powerful is generally less good. 07:15:51 Zhivago: Explain that to Doug Hoyte, who throws variable-capturing macros all over the place in LoL 07:15:51 Being able to goto any instruction in a program is very powerful, for example. 07:16:15 Anaphoric macros are *another thing* that I feel like I could cut myself with. 07:16:19 Limitations provide leverage -- the trick is in working out what limitations provide the most useful leverage with the least pain. 07:16:31 Zhivago: I agree 07:16:34 kristof, not this network, "IRCnet", actually 07:16:45 sthalik: Oh, alright 07:16:59 sthalik: I wasn't aware that people still used different server networks apart from Freenode 07:17:15 kristof, random wasters do use efnet, etc ;-) 07:17:25 poor GIMPnet does not even have a nickserv 07:17:38 my idea - separate corpus into per-nick, then do the magic and respond using chosen nick, with its corpus 07:18:12 actually, on IRCnet, e-pal considered taking over channels after the bot got opped. fortunately, he changed his mind :-) 07:18:14 Anyway, this has been a helpful conversation. 07:18:21 I have been slumming with haskell a bit lately. they're so much into the cult of utmost generality that it becomes really hard to work out which kleisli arrow of which comonad you need to mungle to print "hello world" :) 07:18:22 Zhivago: Thank you very much for your time :) 07:19:07 continuations that return once, and are statements, are nice 07:19:19 anything more powerful and it spends 15% time in gc :-( 07:19:38 mal___: The problem with Haskell is that it's optimized for expressing theoretical constructs from computer science. Which is a good thing, because all the awesome, modern stuff coming out of modern PL-theory ends up in Haskell. But Haskell, as much as I used it about a year ago, never really felt like a *tool*, that was optimized for *expression*. 07:20:06 but! CL doesn't seem optimized for refactoring :-( 07:20:23 macros are all the refactoring anyone needs :P 07:20:30 Anyway, I'm off! Thanks for that chat 07:20:35 kristof, try changing formals all over the place :-( 07:20:37 :-) 07:24:49 -!- kristof [~kristof@unaffiliated/kristof] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:25:44 mrSpec [~Spec@77-254-217-176.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #lisp 07:25:50 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@77-254-217-176.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Changing host] 07:25:50 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:27:51 przl [~przlrkt@p57923A52.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:29:13 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-59-95.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:30:59 The biggest issue with haskell is too much magic. 07:31:10 Which makes things like resource prediction difficult. 07:31:31 But, on the other hand, that's what high level languages should be like. 07:31:47 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:31:57 yeah I tried to write a real utility in it and it failed because it kept leaking memory and I couldn't find out where 07:31:59 So it's probably mostly a question then of how to automatically distribute the load of a haskell work-set over a set of available resources. 07:33:08 I think that haskell is probably ultimately a dead-end for a number of reasons, but I think it also points in the right direction. 07:33:14 haskell type system woulda been nice in a strict language 07:33:50 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 07:34:36 lc0dd0cl [~thisismyu@59.105.18.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 07:35:00 tatsushiko [~tatsushik@250-81-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has joined #lisp 07:36:01 I suspect that the future belongs to algorithmic data-flow systems. 07:36:07 vaporatorius [~vaporator@130.red-80-29-103.adsl.static.ccgg.telefonica.net] has joined #lisp 07:38:33 -!- loke [~loke@203.127.16.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:38:45 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:38:54 attila_lendvai 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2.7.12/20130119143918]] 09:05:25 -!- nug700 [~nug700@71-35-64-103.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:05:31 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.16.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:06:50 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.16.166] has joined #lisp 09:11:09 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@88.231.16.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:11:39 Joel_re [~jr@223.183.55.215] has joined #lisp 09:11:41 pavelpenev [~quassel@melontech.com] has joined #lisp 09:12:14 hey, has anyone here tried to build pgloader recently? 09:12:37 it fails at make, and Im a noob at lisp 09:13:07 http://hastebin.com/qubupopaku.xml 09:13:15 thats the final error 09:13:25 seems related to qmynd 09:15:50 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-4d0b0aff.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:19:08 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 09:23:26 protist [~protist@160.224.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 09:24:15 I switched to an older head, now the error is http://hastebin.com/jobofemojo.xml 09:24:37 I cant figure whats wrong there 09:27:19 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 09:29:05 Joel_re: Can you paste the whole scrollback? Most likely a warning got issued at some point pages and pages above that breakdown. Since there was a warning, compilation was decared failed. And boom. 09:30:13 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:30:19 avery [~avery@host-74-211-18-15.beyondbb.com] has joined #lisp 09:32:51 Joel_re: it might also help to type "backtrace 10" before closing out after the error, to see some of the stack 09:34:39 Poenikatu [~kvirc@pdpc/supporter/bronze/poenikatu] has joined #lisp 09:35:26 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 09:37:46 Yesterday, I downloaded the latest version of slime and found that the command `make' in the doc directory failed with errors. After some work, I had altered slime.texi such that the `make' went to completion. Where should I send the patch for slime.texi? 09:38:43 hiato [~hiato@196-215-121-135.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:39:53 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:44:11 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #lisp 09:44:18 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Client Quit] 09:45:20 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #lisp 09:45:50 I have reported the failure of `make' in the slime doc directory and attached a patch which alters slime.texi. 09:55:56 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:56:22 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 09:57:14 mbobak [~mbobak@81.89.53.154.vnet.sk] has joined #lisp 09:57:16 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@3-6.0-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 09:58:26 -!- gigetoo [~gigetoo@c83-250-61-4.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:58:43 -!- Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:58:44 tatsushiko [~user@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 09:59:47 -!- prip [~foo@87.18.122.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:02:11 -!- mbobak [~mbobak@81.89.53.154.vnet.sk] has left #lisp 10:02:55 -!- kanru` [~kanru@114-32-24-38.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:05:23 -!- ggole [~ggole@124-148-115-89.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:07:54 -!- paul0 [~paul0@177.16.203.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:11:15 pavanmishra [~pavanmish@dhcp-192-215-89.in2cable.com] has joined #lisp 10:12:15 prip [~foo@87.18.122.46] has joined #lisp 10:13:53 is there a builtin predicate that compares symbols alphabetically? 10:14:04 (is it a one-liner to sort '(b a c) into '(a b c)?) 10:14:16 KaiQ [~localhost@p578FC5B4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:14:31 symbols are string designators 10:14:41 so you can use the string comparators 10:17:14 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-wkcfhppemmsaqmzd] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:18:23 Hi Poenikatu! you can send the patch to the mailing list in http://www.common-lisp.net/project/slime/ 10:18:27 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.194.110] has joined #lisp 10:20:04 -!- motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has quit [Quit: tschüß] 10:21:14 hlavaty [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has joined #lisp 10:22:20 ggole [~ggole@106-68-72-157.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:22:48 paul0 [~paul0@177.16.203.28] has joined #lisp 10:24:41 -!- thelorax123 [~nodebot@165.225.138.217] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:25:23 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 10:25:25 thelorax123 [~nodebot@165.225.138.217] has joined #lisp 10:30:01 -!- STilda [~kvirc@188.162.167.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:32:30 -!- oxum [~oxum@122.174.32.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:33:29 -!- desophos [~desophos@cpe-23-240-149-52.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:36:14 oxum [~oxum@122.164.145.131] has joined #lisp 10:36:30 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:38:21 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:39:25 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@85.110.49.243] has joined #lisp 10:40:51 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-175-2-214.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:41:18 prxq: Thanx. Will do so. 10:46:10 pierpa [~user@host110-243-dynamic.18-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 10:46:52 mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.122] has joined #lisp 10:47:56 -!- jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-24-13-132-179.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:48:06 -!- pavanmishra [~pavanmish@dhcp-192-215-89.in2cable.com] has left #lisp 10:48:45 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-255-002.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:51:06 jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-24-13-132-179.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:52:16 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:56:15 motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has joined #lisp 10:57:24 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:57:42 -!- thelorax123 [~nodebot@165.225.138.217] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:57:48 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 10:58:00 harish [~harish@180.255.248.200] has joined 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tatsushiko [~user@188.165.96.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:20:24 -!- nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:22:20 -!- LiamH [~none@129-2-129-146.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:22:33 -!- sword` is now known as sword 14:22:34 Eylusion [~eylusion@107-222-6-86.lightspeed.tpkaks.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:24:41 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-148-232.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:25:18 okay i need some help, i've rewritten these equations over and over and over again, and I'm just not sure i'm doing it right, can someone write these 2 variable declarations out for me? 14:25:27 loke` [~user@2400:d803:7342:f91a:e12c:5a6f:1971:17e4] has joined #lisp 14:25:52 http://snag.gy/Gt2AN.jpg and http://snag.gy/bSR4V.jpg 14:29:04 copyninja [~kakashi@146.185.137.224] has joined #lisp 14:30:05 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 14:31:03 tatsushiko [~user@188.165.96.106] has joined #lisp 14:31:22 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:33:03 -!- thepreacher [~thepreach@87.113.113.69] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:33:27 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:34:35 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 14:37:06 okay disregard the first one, i got that 14:37:25 MoALTz [~no@host86-142-125-127.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:37:39 sdemarre [~serge@175.71-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 14:39:35 -!- cneira [~cneira@pc-33-7-104-200.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:41:21 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@85.110.49.243] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:41:24 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 14:41:48 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@85.110.49.243] has joined #lisp 14:43:02 hm. 14:43:05 annoybot works, actualyl 14:43:25 previously made a mistake in markov 14:45:29 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:47:07 Eylusion: it's #lisp, not #math. 14:47:25 thanks, i'll keep working on it 14:47:36 Wait, what? 14:47:43 -!- prip [~foo@87.18.122.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:48:12 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:48:31 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 14:48:49 Eylusion: if your main goal is to "just" run equations .. and not to discourage learning lisp, but .. why not use a math package..? 14:49:09 there's maxima, it's written in CL, if that makes you feel less guilty ;) 14:49:48 Eylusion: forget my last phrase, you've just sounded for me like a bot. I think I'm just too paranoid about this stuff. 14:50:23 Eylusion: you aren't a robot, are you? 14:50:31 because right now, i just want to define some variables 14:50:31 he/she is not a bot 14:50:34 afaik 14:50:43 OK, that's great. 14:50:51 Eylusion: have you read sicm already? 14:50:54 later not i'll start working on user input, and then hella far down the road maybe some graphix 14:51:03 no i'm a beginner 14:51:12 You should read sicm. 14:51:20 SICM? 14:51:27 Maybe you meant SICP? 14:51:35 after i get these variables assigned, then i'll start adding more stuff as i learn it 14:51:42 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SICM 14:51:48 hitecnologys: no, I meant SICM. 14:51:56 ogamita: ah, I see. 14:51:58 prip [~foo@host70-135-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:52:02 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-68.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:52:14 Eylusion: but you have to realize that a mathematical equation is not a computer program (not even in prolog). 14:52:30 Eylusion: and program variables are not mathematical variables (not even in haskell). 14:53:08 Eylusion: since lisp is a symbolic programming language, you can easily _represent_ a mathematical equation with a lisp sexp, but a lisp sexp is not (necessarily or a-priori) a program. 14:53:10 i'm pretty sure i know nothing, but i disagree 14:53:22 Eylusion: The question is what you want to do with that equation? 14:53:39 If you want to solve equations, then representing them as sexps may be a good start. 14:53:50 (you can also arrive at maxima, or start directly from maxima). 14:54:04 i wanted to right out all these as functions and not variables, but then i just start getting lost, because each one needs all the others in order to function, so i'd have to refer to them as variables 14:54:28 Eylusion: but if your goal is something else, like determining one variable in function of the other, then you can use the mathematical equation to derive a mathematical function, and you can translate this mathematical function into a lisp function. 14:54:53 someday ;) 14:55:01 Eylusion: indeed, a mathematical equation with N variables gives N functions of N-1 variables! 14:55:16 your not helping >:) 14:56:09 y=ax+b : 4 variables. (defun y (x a b) (+ (* a x) b)) (defun x (y a b) (/ (- y b) a)) (defun a (x y b) (/ (- y b) a)) (defun b (x y a) (- y (* a x))) 14:56:19 Eylusion: YOU are not helping! Think! 14:56:57 yeah i'm working my way up to passing arguments to functions 14:56:59 This is not a programming question, it's a maths question. Think. 14:57:50 ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 14:58:29 -!- ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Client Quit] 14:58:49 ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 14:58:54 Eylusion: notice that if you start from the sexp (= y (+ (* a x) b)), you can write a lisp program that will derive the four defun above. 14:59:26 But for more complex equations, of course, this program becomes more complex (it could use maxima as a library). 15:00:16 linking libraries is way over my head, but on a happy note, i did just get my equational variables working just now :) 15:00:24 so i'm good now, you can disregard my request. 15:01:23 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01:26 segv- [~mb@95-91-240-239-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 15:03:00 Eylusion: your equation can be written as the sexp: (= (square Me) (* (/ 2 (- gamma 1)) (- (expt (/ Pc Patm) (/ (- gamma 1) gamma)) 1))) 15:03:50 sure you give me the answer after i already get it working ;) 15:03:51 There are 4 variables. You can solve it for each of them, and derive the four functions. 15:04:09 You don't think we'll do your work! We have enough with our! 15:04:30 lolz, well i do thank you for your help 15:06:59 drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 15:07:04 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:07:25 Kenjin [~kenjin@180.189.170.176] has joined #lisp 15:07:36 -!- tatsushiko [~user@188.165.96.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:08:16 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:12:23 -!- prip [~foo@host70-135-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:13:02 Kabaka [kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 15:15:21 -!- michael_lee [~michael_l@1.80.32.115] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:16:15 cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has joined #lisp 15:20:27 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:27:24 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.194.110] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 15:28:57 LoicLisp [~loic@222.28.122.78.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:45 prip [~foo@host209-125-dynamic.37-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:31:27 -!- JuanDaugherty [~juand@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:33:52 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-151.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:35:47 baboon` [~user@188.73.8.88] has joined #lisp 15:36:12 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@melontech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:37:10 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@p54831E6A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:38:22 -!- cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:42:29 jangle [~jimmy1984@50.241.129.73] has joined #lisp 15:42:47 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.119.93.169] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.3.1] 15:45:56 -!- cpape [~user@cpape.eu] has left #lisp 15:45:57 vancan1ty [~vancan1ty@lawn-143-215-99-123.lawn.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 15:46:06 cpape [~user@cpape.eu] has joined #lisp 15:46:15 -!- prip [~foo@host209-125-dynamic.37-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:46:27 xotedend [~quassel@50-77-75-69-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:07 -!- przl_ [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:51:39 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:51:49 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 15:52:59 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 15:54:07 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-ybqxghbmumvzsqli] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:58:17 download [~user@dhcp206.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 15:58:57 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:59:31 prip [~foo@host140-135-dynamic.42-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:04:57 sohail [~sohail@69-196-154-168.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 16:04:57 -!- sohail [~sohail@69-196-154-168.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 16:04:57 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 16:05:20 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:07:05 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-255-002.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:09:45 -!- DrForr_ is now known as DrForr 16:11:27 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:14:41 -!- thelorax123 [~nodebot@165.225.138.217] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:14:57 -!- Stygia [~gmpsaifi@193.104.83.223] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:15:29 thelorax123 [~nodebot@165.225.138.217] has joined #lisp 16:20:07 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 16:22:20 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:22:45 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-91-113.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 16:22:46 Is it /possible/ to do explicit memory management with CL like malloc() & free() do in C? 16:23:05 Well, you can call malloc and free. 16:23:53 foom: How would you do that? 16:24:03 I think the answer you actually want is "no". 16:24:04 via a foriegn function interface? 16:24:12 Yea 16:24:24 Thanks! :) 16:25:39 I've been tinkering with Extempore (a scheme-based language for musical performances, etc.) which does both garbage collection AND explicit memory management so as to make it more appropriate for real-time applications. It got me cureous if you could do something similar in CL... :) 16:26:12 actually, there is a scheme-like language which you can use when you want to handle your own memory 16:30:25 cool 16:30:59 -!- zkc [~zhangkaiz@27.47.18.74] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:31:24 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:32:50 _DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 16:34:02 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:34:11 -!- DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:34:32 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-255-002.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:35:12 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 16:35:23 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 16:36:30 -!- _DrForr is now known as DrForr 16:36:44 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:37:07 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 16:41:20 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 16:41:45 -!- codeburg [~codeburg@85.183.24.157] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:44:03 dx conses <3 16:44:10 download: there are real-time garbage collectors, I just don't think any of them have made it into lisp 16:44:51 and Rust 16:45:10 thanks jasom! 16:45:26 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:45 jasom: do you have any references on real-time gcs to tell? 16:47:19 Blkt: I have a dead-tree book over here; don't know if that would help you 16:47:44 Single biggest issue with real-time GC is that the lower latency you make the GC pauses the higher the amortized cost of GC 16:48:19 LtU has a few articles on it I think 16:48:25 -!- KaiQ [~localhost@p578FC5B4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:48:25 jangle__ [~jimmy1984@50.241.129.73] has joined #lisp 16:48:27 przl [~przlrkt@p57923A52.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:48:50 Also concurrent, incremental GCs are often good enough for soft real-time 16:49:08 akbiggs [~akbiggs@64.215.161.70] has joined #lisp 16:49:18 -!- vancan1ty [~vancan1ty@lawn-143-215-99-123.lawn.gatech.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:49:28 so the more strictly bounded algorithms don't get as much attention 16:49:34 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@50.241.129.73] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:49:35 -!- jangle__ is now known as jangle 16:49:58 I recently read on LtU that someone made a high performance reference counting GC 16:50:02 Historically, lisp seems to have taken the approach of "If you don't cons, you won't GC" for doing that 16:50:31 but I don't remember whether it was real time 16:50:35 Blkt: you still have unbounded time with the naive implementation of trial deletions 16:51:15 -!- Yanez [~Thunderbi@159.178.28.52] has quit [Quit: Yanez] 16:51:18 is it this? http://lambda-the-ultimate.org/node/4825 16:51:28 -!- blitz_ [~julian@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:51:30 jasom: which book were you talking about before? 16:51:48 sixbitslacker: yes that one 16:51:58 -!- hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1096686679.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:53:08 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-132-91.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 16:55:35 Blkt: I loaned it out, I think it was by someone with a scandinavian name 16:55:49 http://www.amazon.com/Realtime-Collection-Oriented-Programming-Languages/dp/3831138931/ref=sr_1_13?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1386262485&sr=1-13&keywords=real+time+garbage+collection <-- there it is 16:56:08 hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1096686679.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 16:56:43 thanks 16:56:50 It was fairly Java focused 16:57:32 https://www.aicas.com/cms/en/JamaicaVM <-- the author works on that I believe 16:58:45 The company I work for makes an RTOS which lead me to Jamaica VM which lead me to the book 16:58:59 normanrichards [~textual@cpe-24-27-51-104.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:59:05 -!- marsam_ is now known as marsam 17:00:08 s/lead/led 17:00:10 Joreji [~thomas@157-103.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:00:34 kanru` [~kanru@114-32-24-38.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:58 jasom: see my comment on the pull request 17:02:21 jasom: what company is it? (if I may ask) 17:03:05 -!- scampbell [~scampbell@mail.scampbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:15 Green Hills Software. I do lisp stuff as a hobby, since it's pretty much guaranteed to not intersect with my work stuff 17:04:05 -!- fikusz_ [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:04:24 jasom: grow your hobby into a work. 17:04:58 ogamita: I already did that once (I was a physics major that programmed in C as a hobby). 17:05:49 ivan-kanis [~user@lns-c10k-ft-02-t2-89-83-137-164.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 17:06:18 I am trying to assign value of symbol from it's string name, setf is giving me an error 17:06:23 (setf (intern (format nil "*~a*" (string-upcase "user"))) "foo") 17:06:40 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:07:19 The function (COMMON-LISP:SETF COMMON-LISP:INTERN) is undefined. 17:07:54 Kenjin_ [~kenjin@180.189.170.234] has joined #lisp 17:08:03 setf symbol-value 17:08:15 after intern 17:08:23 sthalik: thx 17:08:35 sthalik: it just occured to me as I asked the Q 17:08:53 (setf (symbol-value (intern (format nil "*~a*" (string-upcase "user")))) "foo") 17:09:10 or in this case, you could use SET if you want to take an oldish accent: 17:09:14 (set (intern (format nil "*~a*" (string-upcase "user"))) "foo") 17:09:22 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:09:26 -!- Kenjin [~kenjin@180.189.170.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:09:41 fe[nl]ix: get-file-kind takes a path, not an FD, right? I'm not sure how I could use fd-tty-p on it without opening it. 17:09:59 ivan-kanis: but since both are equivalent, you're seeing that this may not be a good idea to do that. 17:10:07 -!- rainbyte [~rainbyte@190.191.129.32] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:10:22 ogamita: I'll stick with setf since I don't know set 17:10:24 ivan-kanis: perhaps you want to use progv instead 17:10:26 -!- Joel_re [~jr@27.0.52.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:10:41 ivan-kanis: (progv (list (intern )) (list "foo") ) 17:11:04 ivan-kanis: if you don't know set, then you should not use (setf symbol-value). 17:11:08 jasom: oh, right 17:11:14 What you're doing is highly suspicious. 17:11:34 jasom: nevermind then, just fix the indentation and I'll merge it 17:11:52 the chatterbot lives! a fancy weapon, for a more delicate time 17:12:10 the sentences it generates are hysterical 17:12:55 -!- Joreji [~thomas@157-103.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:12:59 ogamita: I am loading variables containing hashref marshall in filenames 17:14:41 ogamita: http://paste.lisp.org/+30BV. 17:15:29 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:7445:7961:fb72:90c4] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:15:50 -!- ogamita [~t@tru75-h02-31-38-72-69.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:17:20 EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:6957:7037:a368:5975] has joined #lisp 17:17:35 Joel_re [~jr@103.20.64.41] has joined #lisp 17:19:00 jasom: when you have a pull request don't be shy and amend commits 17:19:14 how does GH handle that? 17:19:26 very well 17:19:47 when you reload the pull request page it shows the new commit set 17:19:51 I can squash if you like 17:20:12 already did that & pushed 17:20:16 gotta go 17:20:50 yeah, me too 17:24:36 -!- loke` [~user@2400:d803:7342:f91a:e12c:5a6f:1971:17e4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:25:27 -!- akbiggs [~akbiggs@64.215.161.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:26:49 Joreji [~thomas@153-031.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:31:28 LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 17:32:20 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:32:29 akbiggs [~akbiggs@64.215.161.70] has joined #lisp 17:33:14 -!- milosn [~milosn@user-5af50c1c.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:34:26 -!- copyninja [~kakashi@146.185.137.224] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:34:33 -!- shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-vrfxhxriuvooolgm] has quit [Quit: shridhar] 17:34:35 tatsushiko [~tatsushik@250-81-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has joined #lisp 17:36:00 milosn [~milosn@user-5af50bce.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:27 vancan1ty [~vancan1ty@lawn-143-215-99-123.lawn.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 17:41:21 pnpuff [~harmonic@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:41:46 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p57923A52.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:50:20 kristof [~kristof@unaffiliated/kristof] has joined #lisp 17:50:37 smithzv` [~user@duan145-252-dhcp.colorado.edu] has joined #lisp 17:52:05 -!- Joreji [~thomas@153-031.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:52:07 -!- baboon` [~user@188.73.8.88] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:52:27 -!- smithzv [~user@ucb-np2-202.colorado.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:54:45 STilda [~kvirc@188.162.167.32] has joined #lisp 17:54:53 -!- normanrichards [~textual@cpe-24-27-51-104.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [] 17:55:08 sz0 [~sz@208.72.139.54] has joined #lisp 17:56:34 -!- prxq_ [~mommer@x2f675ae.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:56:49 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 17:57:43 lasanbr [cervanto@silenceisdefeat.com] has joined #lisp 17:57:46 ahh it's a wonderful day! 17:59:36 Joreji [~thomas@157-103.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 18:11:57 -!- vancan1ty [~vancan1ty@lawn-143-215-99-123.lawn.gatech.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:12:18 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 18:17:09 tesuji [~tesuji@unaffiliated/tesuji] has joined #lisp 18:20:27 rwiker [~rwiker@80.202.200.148] has joined #lisp 18:23:34 -!- rwiker [~rwiker@80.202.200.148] has quit [Client Quit] 18:24:17 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:25:40 ivan-kanis: perhaps you should keep the data in a hash-table: (dolist (keys '(article user)) (setf (gethash key *data*) (unmarshal (with-open-file (stream (make-pathname :name (string-downcase key) :type "marshal" :case :local :default *this-file*)) (read stream))))) 18:26:05 and then use (gethash 'article *data*) instead of (symbol-value '*article*) 18:27:31 nha [~prefect@koln-4d0b0aff.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:57 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 18:31:32 duggiefr_ [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 18:32:19 -!- Joreji [~thomas@157-103.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:33:07 Joreji [~thomas@157-103.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 18:33:48 Bike [~Glossina@stephdining-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 18:34:49 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 18:35:02 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:35:33 JuanDaugherty [~juand@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:36:30 cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has joined #lisp 18:37:56 -!- duggiefr_ [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:39:24 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-91-113.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:40:33 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 18:41:50 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:45:49 -!- Joreji [~thomas@157-103.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:46:31 is it possible to discover the default external-format in sbcl? 18:47:56 jasom: do you want the locale? 18:48:16 jasom: try: (apropos "EXTERNAL-FORMAT") and see if there's something? 18:48:21 flip214: I want what format is used when I do (open foo :external-format :default) 18:49:45 hmm (stream-external-format (open "some-file-that-exists)) works 18:51:20 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-186-167.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 18:51:21 here, (apropos "EXTERNAL-FORMAT") shows SB-IMPL::*DEFAULT-EXTERNAL-FORMAT* and (SB-IMPL::DEFAULT-EXTERNAL-FORMAT) 18:51:25 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-056-152.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:26 No need to open a file! 18:51:53 SB-IMPL:: though -- seems like it ought to be exported publicly. 18:52:05 complain on #sbcl. 18:52:26 or submit a patch. :) 18:54:35 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-186-167.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Client Quit] 18:54:56 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:56:34 -!- zeebrah [~zeebrah@unaffiliated/zeebrah] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:56:44 cgore-work [~cgore@108-209-245-92.lightspeed.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:44 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-91-113.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 18:58:13 quasus [~stanislav@bl16-67-160.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 18:58:17 duggiefr_ [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 18:58:21 -!- cgore [~cgore@108-209-245-92.lightspeed.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:58:28 -!- cgore-work [~cgore@108-209-245-92.lightspeed.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 18:59:50 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:02:33 vaporatorius [~vaporator@234.Red-88-18-77.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:50 -!- cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:07:06 cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has joined #lisp 19:10:54 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 19:12:09 -!- francis_wolke [~user@c-98-207-155-161.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 19:13:52 pierpa` [~user@host110-243-dynamic.18-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:13:56 RenRenJuan [~juand@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:14:01 jangle__ [~jimmy1984@50.241.129.73] has joined #lisp 19:14:56 -!- pierpa [~user@host110-243-dynamic.18-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:14:56 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@50.241.129.73] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:14:56 -!- JuanDaugherty [~juand@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:14:57 -!- jangle__ is now known as jangle 19:15:14 francis_wolke [~user@c-98-207-155-161.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:26 hrs [~textual@64.206.121.41] has joined #lisp 19:18:56 -!- quasus [~stanislav@bl16-67-160.dsl.telepac.pt] has left #lisp 19:19:35 -!- cory786 [~cory@CK-Laptop.wifi.utoledo.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:20:05 -!- hrs [~textual@64.206.121.41] has quit [Client Quit] 19:20:09 H4ns: are you the maintainer of yason? 19:21:01 jasom: yes. i'm also the author. 19:21:24 (map 'list #'char-code (yason:parse "\"\\ud800\\udc00\"")) => (55296 56320) 19:21:29 chawls [~ronen@IGLD-84-228-66-76.inter.net.il] has joined #lisp 19:21:44 I expect (65536) 19:21:48 -!- enn_ is now known as enn 19:21:56 jasom: why? 19:22:17 because that's a surrogate pair, which is the standard way of escaping non BMP characters in json 19:22:26 jasom: i mean, i may be missing something, but 65536 would be \uffff 19:22:39 65536 is \uffff 19:22:40 not even that, but \u10000 19:22:42 er 65535 19:22:51 \u10000 is not valid json 19:23:12 that may well be, but why would \ud800 be 65536? 19:23:13 See section 2.5 of the RFC: http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4627.txt 19:23:47 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-193-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:23:57 H4ns: because you use UTF-16 surrogate pairs to escape non BMP characters (code point over #xffff) in json 19:24:30 jasom: well, i can't say i spent much time in that area. i'll gladly look at your fix, please send a pull request. 19:24:59 \u10000 is not valid json(babel:octets-to-string (babel:string-to-octets (yason:parse "\"\\ud800\\udc00\"") :encoding :utf-16le) :encoding :utf-16le) does the right thing. 19:25:48 H4ns: I'll work on a fix this week. Busy at the moment. 19:26:03 jasom: thanks! 19:26:35 It is a real pain in the rear. One of the worst parts of JSON if you aren't on a native UTF-16 system 19:26:47 sz [~sz@208.72.139.54] has joined #lisp 19:26:55 -!- sz0 [~sz@208.72.139.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:28:17 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-116-19.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:22 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-193-178.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:31 -!- kristof [~kristof@unaffiliated/kristof] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:31:54 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:59 -!- francis_wolke [~user@c-98-207-155-161.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:32:55 anyone here use the ltk gui library, and have any comments? 19:34:36 jangle: I use it. I like it. It is very stable and easy to debug with (since the GUI runs in a separate process, you can break into the lisp debugger and make changes without freezing the gui) 19:35:31 jangle: also, you can include the tclkit executable (a standalone tcl/tk executable) along with your built executable for easy binary delivery (just 2 files) 19:35:34 jasom: thanks! so when I invoke things like the ltk-eyes program from the package, my repl goes away till I close the program, can you elaborate more on the "debug" part of the comment? 19:35:58 jasom: and that was going to be my next question, that sounds really attractive 19:36:39 jangle: you can C-c to break the repl if you like; similarly when you hit exceptions you can drop into the debugger. Alternatively, you can manually invoke the event loop. 19:37:19 jangle: I've used ltk a bit to write a utility recently, and it was pretty good 19:37:38 jangle: the only issue I had was that sometimes callback-heavy stuff gets a little wonky 19:37:46 francis_wolke [~user@c-98-207-155-161.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:47 hrs [~textual@64.206.121.41] has joined #lisp 19:37:49 jangle: but it's usually pretty easy to push it into the tcl side of things 19:38:02 I have my own fork of ltk, for which I've submitted patches upstream. I'm not 100% sure that the common-lisp.net mailing servers are working well though... 19:38:22 jasom: I've got a fairly large bunch of ltk extensions I wrote too 19:38:23 fortitude: are you on ltk-user? If so did you see the patches I submitted last month? 19:38:27 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 19:39:01 jasom: no, I haven't gotten around to getting on the lists yet 19:39:10 do you guys have publicly accessible examples of programs you've made with ltk? 19:39:36 jangle: ye-es, but it's pretty bad code, so you might not really want to see it 19:39:38 and have you guys run the code cross platform at all? 19:39:42 jangle: I will in a bit; just haven't put it up on github yet. It's a bit ugly though 19:39:52 jangle: I have run this particular one on Mac, windows and linux 19:39:56 fair enough. 19:40:52 jangle: my utility's at https://github.com/mtstickney/sync/tree/sync.camcap.master, if you want to have a look anyway (might be good for small pieces here and there) 19:41:01 jasom: thanks, thats important to me and good to hear. my boss uses windows, and some end users do too, and while I have windows as well, I mainly use mac for my work and would love to stick with it for development, but as long as at the end of the day I can give my boss working programs, thats a big win 19:41:02 mac application delivery is a pain in the butt though. There's no way to find out the bundle directory without calling into one of the system frameworks (it sets the unix current directory to /) so you need to use ccl specific bindings (they are the only way to call into objectiveC that I've found anyway) 19:41:25 huh ok, I'll watch out for that 19:41:32 fortitude: thanks for the link I appreciate it 19:42:17 jasom: I haven't really delivered any lisp app off of my machine yet in any way whatsoever, so all of those gotchas are waiting for me 19:42:26 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-28.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:35 jangle: for developing on a mac, you should be fine; it's bundling it all together in a .app that gets tricky 19:43:01 jasom: oh ok. 19:43:02 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:43:08 but again, it becomes simple if you want to require that they have tcl/tk already installed 19:43:13 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:43:26 since I went through a couple iterations of this, I think I used macports to get it 19:43:58 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:44:02 I really don't remember how I got it, but I don't expect to ship to mac users before I need to ship to windows users 19:44:11 windows app delivery is a breeze (just put tclkit and your executable in the same directory, since windows sets the CWD to the path of the executable by default) 19:44:21 figured 19:44:53 and I guess, if I didn't want to make a .app for mac delivery, would the same mode apply for mac? 19:45:16 or, assume macports install of the tclkit? 19:45:24 cabaire [~nobody@p54A7434C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:45:41 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 19:46:05 jangle: yeah, unix style executable for mac is just as easy. 19:46:31 jasom: thats good to hear, and will likely be good enough till I get more fluent in all the moving parts 19:46:42 and linux I don't even bother with tclkit since every distro has tcl available in its package manager 19:46:42 vancan1ty [~vancan1ty@lawn-143-215-99-123.lawn.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 19:47:20 thanks all, I appreciate the feedback 19:48:30 biggest drawback is how low-level it is compared to some other frameworks. Also the documentation for it basically boils down to "look it up how to do it in tcl on tcl.tk then find the lisp binding to that command in the ltk source" 19:48:44 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:48:58 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:48:58 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 19:49:06 ok 19:49:06 but it looks pretty on mac and windows; the linux theme is a bit more divisive... 19:49:28 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:49:35 cmack` [~charlie@70-90-152-81-Knoxville.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:55 I've used wxwidgets for some c++ apps in the past, but the binding looked really ugly 19:50:05 and seemed to be unmaintained 19:50:44 The other one I've heard good things about (but havent used) is commonqt 19:51:00 I'm happy enough with ltk to not bother with that 19:51:25 good 19:51:35 thanks 19:52:09 -!- STilda [~kvirc@188.162.167.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:55:25 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-255-002.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:57:06 jangle: http://do1.ashley-jason.com/ltk-patch/ there are my current outstanding patches, by the way. 20:01:29 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:01:34 -!- download [~user@dhcp206.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:02:12 thanks 20:05:55 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:07:46 fikusz [~fikusz@catv-89-132-137-62.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 20:08:42 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-148-232.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:09:50 -!- Joel_re [~jr@103.20.64.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:09:52 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:11:02 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:11:35 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:10 Joel_re [~jr@115.69.254.97] has joined #lisp 20:15:39 bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:17:14 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has left #lisp 20:19:15 -!- ggole [~ggole@106-68-72-157.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 20:21:50 -!- LoicLisp [~loic@222.28.122.78.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:26:20 -!- francis_wolke [~user@c-98-207-155-161.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 20:26:38 francis_wolke [~user@c-98-207-155-161.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:49 nug700 [~nug700@71-35-69-220.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:39 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@50.241.129.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:31:51 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 20:32:13 -!- hrs [~textual@64.206.121.41] has quit [Quit: My iMac has gone to sleep. 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[~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:56:57 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:59:01 -!- hiato [~hiato@196-215-121-135.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Quit: The great inequality of life: nothing > money] 22:59:02 -!- francis_wolke [~user@2601:9:4180:468:c33:fa86:ce51:38e8] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:59:38 -!- duggiefr_ [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:59:40 -!- thelorax123 [~nodebot@165.225.138.217] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:22 thelorax123 [~nodebot@165.225.138.217] has joined #lisp 23:02:39 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:03:10 nipra [~nipra@122.177.74.114] has joined #lisp 23:03:16 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 23:03:18 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-151.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:04:21 http://kingjamesprogramming.tumblr.com/ 23:04:31 this is brilliant 23:06:25 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:06:54 hm, trying to parse a json using cl 23:06:55 (:TICKER (:HIGH . 3150.0) (:LOW . 2551.0) (:VOL . 126.205414) (:LAST . 2930.0) 23:06:55 (:BUY . 2890.0) (:SELL . 2930.0) (:DATE . 1386208848)) 23:07:06 how can I get the BUY and SELL? 23:07:26 paul0: why not use one of the million JSON libs out there? 23:07:31 -!- nipra [~nipra@122.177.74.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:07:35 this is parsed json, presumably 23:07:39 mathrick, cl-json created this output 23:07:46 you could do (assoc :buy (rest that)) 23:07:47 oh 23:08:05 (cdr (assoc :buy (rest that))) to get the value. 23:08:30 cool, rest does the job 23:08:37 assoc, I mean 23:09:03 "So David would face designated index, and the cdr of this record to the thou frame of the environment?" 23:09:21 "symbols, whose values are looked up in the court of the LORDs glory." <-- I think CLHS needs to be updated 23:09:26 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 23:12:33 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.104.17] has joined #lisp 23:13:53 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:6957:7037:a368:5975] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:14:12 KaiQ [~localhost@p578FC5B4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 23:14:51 EvW [~Thunderbi@2001:981:5f09:1:6957:7037:a368:5975] has joined #lisp 23:16:06 "For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even mention classes or inheritance." 23:20:43 -!- akbiggs [~akbiggs@64.215.161.70] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:22:33 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@85.110.49.243] has joined #lisp 23:23:10 -!- Joreji [~thomas@157-103.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:24:36 mathrick: i think that's enough blasphemy for #lisp, don't you? 23:26:22 thepreacher [~thepreach@87.113.113.69] has joined #lisp 23:26:36 -!- thepreacher [~thepreach@87.113.113.69] has quit [Remote host closed 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