00:00:16 I'm a CL noob looking for a package or library to build a GUI. I've checked out cliki.net 00:00:36 i recommend commonqt 00:00:44 my question is: is there any lispworks' capi clone? 00:00:51 no 00:01:18 -!- zz_karupanerura is now known as karupanerura 00:02:05 well, have you tried capi? what's your opinion about it? 00:02:30 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:02:49 i tried a little bit, my opinion is, "what do i care how good it is if i can't use it" 00:04:01 well, whaddya know, no more GC deadlocks on windows SBCL 00:04:22 *stassats* pats himself on the back 00:05:32 well, I'm gonna try commonqt. Thanks! 00:05:32 -!- fjk [~user@186.130.233.200] has left #lisp 00:05:54 JuanitoJons [~jreynoso@201.164.189.106] has joined #lisp 00:06:00 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.158.44.130] has joined #lisp 00:06:23 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-241-10-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:06:39 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.93.60] has joined #lisp 00:06:43 -!- desophos_ is now known as desophos 00:11:58 -!- CADD [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:12:03 cobra_party [~stefan@wsip-184-177-173-28.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:25 -!- cobra_party [~stefan@wsip-184-177-173-28.sd.sd.cox.net] has left #lisp 00:12:44 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.158.44.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:15:44 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@37.26.146.247] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:15:49 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 00:16:08 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@37.26.146.247] has joined #lisp 00:17:37 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:18:33 nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 00:19:27 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 00:19:51 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 00:21:19 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:22:50 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:23:00 -!- normanrichards [~textual@cpe-24-27-51-104.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [] 00:23:07 MoALTz_ [~no@host81-153-181-250.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:23:24 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 00:25:19 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has joined #lisp 00:25:43 -!- MoALTz [~no@host81-153-181-250.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:26:01 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:27:56 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@37.26.146.247] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:28:26 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@37.26.146.247] has joined #lisp 00:29:06 -!- dcxi [~dcxi@219.Red-79-158-106.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: dcxi] 00:29:47 -!- LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:30:29 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:30:43 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:31:32 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:32:41 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:33:13 -!- Tarential [~Tarential@li421-205.members.linode.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:33:18 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 00:34:35 -!- kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-213-196-192-206.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:34:40 Tarential [~Tarential@li421-205.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 00:35:53 Is lispbuilder worth using, or is it dead and broken? It doesn't look like its been updated in a while. 00:36:22 -!- munge [~user@cpe-075-178-033-080.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:36:33 -!- munge` [~user@cpe-075-178-033-080.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:37:17 Petit_Dejeuner: Lispbuilder is far from perfect, but still works alright if you need SDL. 00:38:24 alright, thanks 00:38:53 "Far from perfect" uh, is there something specific? 00:40:03 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:42:58 Rendering UTF doesn't work out of the box, it's easy to trash your Lisp image if you don't handle exceptions... 00:44:33 -!- hlavaty [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:50:00 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:50:24 kristof [~kristof@unaffiliated/kristof] has joined #lisp 00:52:57 nisstyre 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[~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:05:57 MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:21 I'm used to scheme-style if-statements, so cl-style if is confusing me slightly 05:07:41 As long as the test-form evaluates to *non-NIL*, then it'll evaluate the then-form? 05:07:48 kristof: yes 05:07:55 And nil is also false in CL 05:07:56 nil is treated as false, everything else as true 05:08:00 got it 05:08:18 the thing that might trip some people is that 0 is also true :) 05:08:30 p_l|backup: Because it's non-nil 05:08:34 yep 05:08:53 but some people are unprepared for that thanks to C and several languages that decided to mess with that 05:08:55 p_l|backup: non-nil is considered true, even in non-if statements? 05:09:04 yes 05:09:12 kristof: by anything that is interested only in "generalized boolean" 05:09:25 That's really weird... But I can actually see how that would be very, very useful 05:09:35 throughout the whole language. one glorious, simple rule: only nil is false, everything else is true. 05:09:36 -!- MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:09:45 because a lot of if statements end up just looking for existence, anyway 05:09:53 -!- optikalmouse [~omouse@69-165-245-60.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:10:03 however, there might be other conditions that might cause failures, but when an argument is said to be generalized boolean, then it accepts anything as true 05:10:06 (other than nil) 05:10:10 MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:10:16 Sweet. Thanks :) 05:10:44 kristof: also, don't remember how it is in scheme, but CL's IF always has *then* and *else* branches defined 05:11:03 when you want only one of those, you have WHEN and UNLESS :) 05:11:20 p_l|backup: Strange, Practical Common Lisp is listing the else-form as being optional 05:11:27 that's up for debate. the language doesn't mind if without an else 05:11:37 nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has joined #lisp 05:11:41 ah, so it's a stylistic thing 05:11:49 yes 05:11:59 ...what would if do if the test evaluates to false but there's no else-form defined? 05:12:09 nil is returned 05:12:10 kristof: see, I ended up being taught to always treat it as required! :D 05:14:43 -!- easiere [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:16:06 easiere [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 05:16:34 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 05:18:14 arrsim` [~user@128.250.116.182] has joined #lisp 05:19:25 -!- rk[zzz] is now known as ryanalankarason 05:22:08 Ah, here we go 05:22:26 p_l|backup: "Using the empty list as false is a reflection of Lisps heritage as a list-processing language much as 05:22:28 the use of the integer 0 as false in C is a reflection of its heritage as a bit-twiddling language. 05:23:31 p_l|backup: So that backs up what you said quite nicely 05:24:10 an empty list is only false because it is the same as NIL 05:24:23 and this is very handy 05:24:30 so it seems! 05:25:27 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #lisp 05:26:51 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 05:27:21 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #lisp 05:28:53 when counting things in APL it's similarly handy that false is 0 05:29:06 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:29:09 Isn't APL the language that Backus inspired? 05:29:48 thought it predated backus 05:29:48 this channel is on Common Lisp ;-) 05:30:06 Sorry :P 05:30:42 I don't think you have to worry about APL stealing all your programmers 05:31:11 *DataLinkDroid* stops worrying 05:31:40 Bike: You're right, I was thinking of FP 05:32:05 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:33:29 Emi [~Emi@adsl-67-120-185-130.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:34:01 alezost [~user@128-70-197-79.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:35:02 -!- fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317577.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:35:51 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-51-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:41:12 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.164.189.106] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:42:03 didn't someone write bits and pieces of APL in reader macros? 05:43:08 stassats did, as a joke 05:43:19 wasn't really APL so much as throw in set builder notation, though 05:43:55 -!- kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] 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[~Thunderbi@105-236-51-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:06:41 Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 08:07:07 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:07:19 nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 08:07:55 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:08:14 kedorlaomer [~user@lankwitz.informatik.hu-berlin.de] has joined #lisp 08:10:03 -!- kaygun_ [~kaygun@78.180.237.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:13:04 I created a new asdf with quickproject, and wrote « :components ((:module "src" » in there. 08:13:59 «(asdf:operate 'asdf:load-op » works, but a simple eval of »(ASDF:defsystem...)» in the repl gives «Invalid relative pathname #P"src/" for component» 08:14:16 that's sbcl 1.1.13, debian amd64. 08:15:12 I'm sure that that worked some time ago ... with 1.1.6 and possibly 1.1.12. 08:19:13 -!- kedorlaomer [~user@lankwitz.informatik.hu-berlin.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:19:55 flip214: when you do load-op, ASDF knows where your .asd file is located 08:20:24 because it loads your defsystem from that .asd file 08:20:59 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:21:01 when you are in REPL it doesn't know where your .asd file is located, so it can't understand what relative path #P"src/" means 08:21:15 I think this is the cause of the error 08:21:39 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-255-002.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:22:37 antonv: But I start SBCL with the correct $PWD! 08:35:32 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.161.84.102] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:39:49 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-51-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 08:40:37 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-51-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:45:42 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-171-249.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:49:38 shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-ochchfsvzbmphgtn] has joined #lisp 08:53:18 nydel_ [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-qvbedufzxzwscpcg] has joined #lisp 08:53:25 -!- nydel [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-wqmxadanibdurrik] has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:53:36 -!- nydel_ is now known as nydel 08:54:50 -!- nydel [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-qvbedufzxzwscpcg] has quit [Client Quit] 08:54:59 nydel [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-fafnalrzpznaixer] has joined #lisp 08:56:08 ccorn [~ccorn@hosting.trifork.nl] has joined #lisp 08:56:43 flip214: PWD doesn't matter 08:57:10 TheShrubber [~jonas@ip123021.directconnect.no] has joined #lisp 08:58:01 asdf interpret the "src/" not relative to PWD, but relative to the .asd file 08:58:47 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:59:46 yeah. the ASD is in ., and there's a ./src/. What's wrong? 09:00:10 Just got "Value of ... in ... is NIL, not a NIL." (SIMPLE-TYPE-ERROR) 09:03:01 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:03:46 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has joined #lisp 09:04:41 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-51-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:04:47 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:08:30 -!- nug700_ [~nug700@71-35-74-99.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 09:08:52 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:10:17 peccu [~peccu@KD106179020073.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:11:37 arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-klsxxjooubszjiby] has joined #lisp 09:13:04 -!- blacklabel [~user@c-76-21-124-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:14:19 cmm [~cmm@109.65.128.157] has joined #lisp 09:16:08 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 09:16:18 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Client Quit] 09:16:30 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 09:16:42 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Client Quit] 09:17:12 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@192-177.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 09:17:19 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 09:20:50 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #lisp 09:22:38 -!- desophos [~desophos@n163h87.dhcp.oxy.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:26:16 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-133.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:28:34 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@hosting.trifork.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 09:30:37 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-51-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:30:41 -!- thelorax123 [~nodebot@165.225.138.217] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:31:09 ccorn [~ccorn@hosting.trifork.nl] has joined #lisp 09:31:24 thelorax123 [~nodebot@165.225.138.217] has joined #lisp 09:33:20 Joreji [~thomas@172-212.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 09:34:01 flip214: Seems like someone attempted to specify a type as NIL instead of NULL 09:34:20 NIL is a NULL, not a NIL 09:34:39 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 09:41:45 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-83-65.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:42:16 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-83-65.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 09:42:59 -!- harish_ [harish@nat/redhat/x-pkaxupeqysjvqoqf] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:43:02 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-83-65.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:44:26 loke: Sorry, I can't follow that. My brain is at a completely different site. 09:44:31 but thanks for the answer. 09:45:14 think (check-type foo nil) vs. (check-type foo null) 09:47:05 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-51-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:47:13 Harag1 [~Thunderbi@105-236-51-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:48:31 flip214: (type-of nil) => NULL 09:51:09 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-83-65.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 09:52:38 theAlgorist [~theAlgori@host5-216-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:55:28 -!- Harag1 [~Thunderbi@105-236-51-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:56:36 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-51-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:56:52 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:56:56 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:57:11 hiato [~hiato@196.42.100.226] has joined #lisp 09:57:39 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:57:58 -!- ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:59:31 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:59:52 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-5d817d5f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:59:57 ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 10:04:19 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:04:50 munge [~user@cpe-075-178-033-080.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:08:02 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 10:08:55 stardiviner [~stardivin@112.10.9.53] has joined #lisp 10:09:07 nenorbot [~ronen@109.65.154.38] has joined #lisp 10:09:45 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 10:13:19 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-51-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:14:41 -!- thelorax123 [~nodebot@165.225.138.217] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:15:18 thelorax123 [~nodebot@165.225.138.217] has joined #lisp 10:17:13 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:17:27 Or, (TYPEP NIL NULL)  NIL 10:17:34 damn! 10:17:37 Forget that 10:17:43 what I meant to say was: 10:17:47 Or, (TYPEP NIL NULL)  T 10:17:57 and: (TYPEP NIL NIL)  NIL 10:21:15 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 10:25:53 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-51-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:26:12 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 10:26:12 What happened to Nikodemus's Madeira? 10:28:40 naryl: it's gone to Ibiza for vacation 10:30:24 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 10:34:13 hlavaty [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has joined #lisp 10:34:40 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-51-243.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:35:07 -!- Shinmera [~linus@public-docking-pat-etx-mapped-0011.ethz.ch] has quit [Quit: BBL] 10:35:57 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #lisp 10:36:21 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@hosting.trifork.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 10:41:59 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.251.140.27] has joined #lisp 10:41:59 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.251.140.27] has quit [Changing host] 10:41:59 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:42:23 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:43:01 harish_ [~harish@124.197.91.53] has joined #lisp 10:44:10 Harag [~Thunderbi@41.26.46.155] has joined #lisp 10:44:22 ccorn [~ccorn@hosting.trifork.nl] has joined #lisp 10:45:25 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:50:28 vaporatorius [~vaporator@84.Red-83-42-198.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:50:57 buenas 11:00:18 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:02:39 easiere` [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 11:03:35 Poenikatu [~Poenikatu@89.241.77.255] has joined #lisp 11:03:35 -!- Poenikatu [~Poenikatu@89.241.77.255] has quit [Changing host] 11:03:35 Poenikatu [~Poenikatu@pdpc/supporter/bronze/poenikatu] has joined #lisp 11:04:11 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-133.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:04:27 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@hosting.trifork.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 11:04:33 -!- easiere [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:04:37 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:05:07 I am using SBCL. The value of *features* shows lots of features. How does one find out details of them? eg) :OS-UNIX ? 11:05:08 Poenikatu, memo from mathrick: I annotated your code at http://paste.lisp.org/display/139910, including a fully idiomatic version 11:05:34 minion: I'm going to look at that now 11:05:34 does torturing a poor bot with things beyond its comprehension please you? 11:05:41 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has joined #lisp 11:06:29 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:06:58 -!- hiato [~hiato@196.42.100.226] has quit [Quit: Nothing so gives the illusion of intelligence as personal association with large sums.] 11:08:47 -!- nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:09:33 minion, Thanks a lot, I shall study what you have written. Meanwhile, I am working on my first CL project! 11:09:33 you're welcome 11:11:16 minion, How can one find out about the features in SBCL? 11:11:16 you speak nonsense 11:11:21 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:12:37 How can one find out about the features in SBCL? 11:13:19 LoicLisp [~loic@229.35.122.78.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 11:14:09 Poenikatu: *features* 11:15:59 H4ns, Yes, I've done that, but how does one find out about a particular feature? They are not in SBCL's manual 11:16:14 Poenikatu: what do you mean by "find out"? 11:16:40 H4ns, eg) :OS-UNIX What does this feature provide? Which functions? 11:17:01 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:17:03 Poenikatu: ah. there is no complete documentation of that, as far as i know. 11:17:15 H4ns, What about :asdf? 11:17:37 Poenikatu: minion is a bot passing on notes from other people, in this case me 11:17:37 Poenikatu: what do you mean by "what about"? 11:17:55 so asking it for actual advice is unlikely to succeed 11:18:11 H4ns, Are the features packages? And if so, given a package name, how can one discover the names of functions provided by the package? 11:18:26 Poenikatu: what do you want to do? 11:18:38 mathrick, Thank you for your annotations of my paste. 11:19:11 Poenikatu: no, features and packages are totally orthogonal 11:19:13 stassats, I am curious as to what functions are available in the features. Knowing what is available helps me to write progs 11:19:51 Poenikatu: features and functions do not have any inherent connection. a feature could be about functions, but it could also be about specific ways to implement something. 11:20:34 H4ns, So what is the point of having features when there is no way of finding what functionality they provide? 11:21:11 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 11:21:18 Poenikatu: features are use by the reader macro to select forms that are read. 11:21:29 H4ns, Take the :ASDF3 :ASDF2 :ASDF features in SBCL. Does that mean that I can issue ASDF commands? 11:21:41 Poenikatu: features are entirely at the discretion of whoever adds them to *FEATURES*. They're symbols and nothing else, and their purpose is only to serve as a tag for someone else to find out a specific, potentially useful fact about the running implementation 11:21:43 Poenikatu: you don't "issue ASDF commands" 11:22:09 for example, :SBCL tells you you're running SBCL 11:22:26 and :SBCL-UNIX tells you you're running on an POSIX platform 11:22:32 and... that would be documented in SBCL's documentation, where it belongs 11:22:38 exactly 11:22:42 Poenikatu: it just means that your SBCL is possessed by ASDF 11:22:52 Ok, I know I'm a beginner in CL (professional programmer emeritus), but finding out what is available is standard practice for me. 11:23:04 yes, you use docs for that 11:23:13 features are nothing but symbols 11:23:13 Poenikatu: apropos is what you're looking for 11:23:20 Poenikatu: A good way is to run (ql:system-list) 11:23:24 or what H4ns says 11:26:22 -!- Joreji [~thomas@172-212.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:26:28 loke, Tried (ql...) and was told by SLIME that the package ql does not exist 11:27:01 Poenikatu: You need to have Quicklisp installed. Everybody should have Quicklisp installed 11:27:12 http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/ 11:27:13 H4ns, Ok, but apropos is only useful if you know *something* of what you want. Not for general enquiries 11:27:38 Joreji [~thomas@172-212.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 11:27:45 Poenikatu: well. that is where documentation comes into play. but you can believe us, *features* is not what you're really looking for. 11:30:41 Poenikatu: *features* is not primarily intended for users. Libraries and implementations may (or may not) add keywords to that list so that code can be specialized on the presence of given features. 11:31:03 i.e. something equivalent to the #ifdef ... magic in C. 11:32:26 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-154-16.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:33:07 and like the _WEIRDLIB_H_ symbols in C, the actual meaning of the symbols in *features* only applies on a case by case basis 11:33:47 prxq, Hm, I must say that it's all a bit beyond me. I suppose that when I've learned more CL, it'll start to be meaningful. And I've installed quicklisp. *Very* interesting. 11:34:21 prxq: that's a bad example. the _H_ macros are not feature macros 11:35:49 fe[nl]ix: they are "foo is present" kind of things 11:36:07 prxq: no, they're just guarding against multiple file inclusion 11:36:13 exactly 11:36:29 well, yes that's trues. But again, that is just a convention 11:36:32 prxq: see man feature_test_macros for the real ones 11:36:39 prxq: anyone who uses them for feature detection should be, well, given a shovel and made a gardener. 11:37:10 but nothing prevents you from doing that, in the same way as nothing prevents you putting whatever you want in *features* 11:37:27 or binding a macro to a symbol in the keyword package. yes. 11:37:45 When I was "into" Algol 68, I wrote a Literate Programming program (called "tang"), which kept a list of read library files so that multiple reading of files simply didn't happen. Why the C preprocessor doesn't do that is a mystery 11:38:18 jk121960 [~jk121960@108-89-22-112.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:39:18 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41.26.46.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:39:44 Shinmera [~linus@public-docking-pat-hg-mapped-0042.ethz.ch] has joined #lisp 11:40:15 for reasons of backwards-compatibility sometimes people do want multiple inclusions to evaluate differently 11:40:21 echo-area [~user@114.254.106.233] has joined #lisp 11:40:30 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:40:45 i'd rather sa 11:40:46 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:40:51 but that's OT 11:40:54 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-162-208.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:41:02 y that c is primitive because it had to run on primitive computers. 11:41:08 but right. ot, sorry. 11:43:27 -!- nenorbot [~ronen@109.65.154.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:44:00 prxq, So, the contents of *features* cannot be relied on as a description of what is available in a CL implementation, right? 11:44:05 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:45:10 what do you mean by "what is available" ? 11:45:40 Poenikatu: you can just forget about *features* for now 11:45:42 fe[nl]ix, I suppose I mean "built-in" to the CL image 11:46:33 Surely, there must be a difference between what packages are available for direct use, and packages which can be downloaded and installed. 11:47:18 eg) There doesn't seem to be a function for listing all the external functions defined in a package. 11:48:29 Poenikatu: http://weitz.de/packages.html 11:49:35 -!- Joreji [~thomas@172-212.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:50:28 Joreji [~thomas@172-212.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 11:50:59 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:51:57 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:52:31 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 11:53:36 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 11:53:58 poenikatu: Well, packags don't have external functions -- they have external symbols, which may name functions. 11:53:59 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:54:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.112] has joined #lisp 11:54:06 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.112] has quit [Changing host] 11:54:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:54:33 ccorn [~ccorn@hosting.trifork.nl] has joined #lisp 11:56:07 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-38-227.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 11:56:26 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@176.62.110.219] has joined #lisp 11:57:35 -!- CrazyEddy [~colorimet@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:58:19 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@112.10.9.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:01:01 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:04:37 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 12:05:49 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:07:09 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has joined #lisp 12:10:14 doomlord_ [~servitor@host86-184-9-9.range86-184.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:11:45 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:12:14 I'm writing code similar to GLUT, specifically in this instance, to create a window in OS X into which I can place an OpenGL context. 12:13:03 The problem is that I'd like to use CCL to do this... but Cocoa (the OS X GUI) needs to be run off the primary thread of a process. 12:14:10 I've read how someone's re-shuffled the threads for CCL to make this happen... just can't remember where. 12:14:58 -!- Shinmera [~linus@public-docking-pat-hg-mapped-0042.ethz.ch] has quit [Quit: BBL] 12:15:20 IIRC, CCL uses the primary thread for garbage collection and "house keeping". 12:15:56 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:16:51 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 12:17:10 doomlord__ [~servitor@host86-184-9-9.range86-184.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:17:21 -!- doomlord__ [~servitor@host86-184-9-9.range86-184.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:18:02 Anyone here know where I could get more info on how to tweak CCL in this manner? 12:20:49 most likely in the ccl mailing list 12:21:13 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:23:26 prxq: Thanks, just remebered that CCL has a Cocoa IDE, so I guess I'll take a look at the sourcecode. 12:24:04 huh, requirements like "must run off the primary thread" are invariably obnoxious and constraining 12:24:59 mathrick: Yep, but that's part of the OS X happymeal. :P 12:25:23 yeah, assuming you find it happy, which I don't personally :) 12:25:56 "In Common Lisp, a package is a first-class object the semantics of which are clearly defined by the language standard." <-- well, strictly speaking they're not first-class, more like 1.5-class 12:26:02 I wonder if they changes the supposed fix of that weird ipc issue that was caused by assumption that you will restart your machine daily 12:26:24 heh 12:26:27 mathrick: Yeah, I meant "happy" meal. 12:27:30 mathrick: I believe Clozure guys hit a weird bug that was found out to be a bug in API spec coming from Mach2.0/3.0 :> 12:27:43 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 12:27:48 STilda [~kvirc@188.231.185.121] has joined #lisp 12:31:20 protist [~protist@155.224.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 12:33:50 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 12:34:57 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-83-65.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:37:22 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-83-65.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 12:37:28 -!- Sgeo [~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:37:34 breakds [~breakds@c-24-0-147-122.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:37:48 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:38:26 -!- Joreji [~thomas@172-212.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:43:59 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@hosting.trifork.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 12:47:55 ccorn [~ccorn@hosting.trifork.nl] has joined #lisp 12:48:46 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-162-208.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Quit: Harag] 12:51:45 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 12:52:07 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:52:30 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:52:46 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:54:52 blacklabel [~user@c-76-21-124-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:55:14 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:57:05 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:59:39 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:03:52 nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 13:06:05 -!- theAlgorist [~theAlgori@host5-216-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:07:54 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has joined #lisp 13:08:43 srcerer_ [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 13:10:04 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:11:59 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@hosting.trifork.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 13:12:38 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:13:16 kisp [~kisp@ds80-237-216-40.dedicated.hosteurope.de] has joined #lisp 13:16:14 ccorn [~ccorn@hosting.trifork.nl] has joined #lisp 13:19:25 p_l|backup: Do you have some reference for that bug? 13:20:25 teggi [~teggi@123.21.198.146] has joined #lisp 13:20:39 Okasu: unfortunately not anymore. It involved some weird resource leak deep in Mach IPC, which was finally traced back to one of the original Mach developers saying that it was known bug that wasn't considered serious, because the system was to be used on workstations and those would be rebooted often... 13:23:48 -!- kisp [~kisp@ds80-237-216-40.dedicated.hosteurope.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:24:06 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Quit: kcj] 13:26:44 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:27:05 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 13:29:54 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@194.228.11.188] has quit [Quit: Ragequit] 13:31:54 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@72.53.108.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:32:03 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:33:10 brmj_work [444631d0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.70.49.208] has joined #lisp 13:35:32 -!- breakds [~breakds@c-24-0-147-122.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:38:09 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@hosting.trifork.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 13:38:40 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-116-9.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 13:38:57 theAlgorist [~theAlgori@host5-216-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:39:45 ccorn [~ccorn@hosting.trifork.nl] has joined #lisp 13:43:01 mathrick: Is what way are the packages not first-class? I personally have plenty of issues with packages, but this is not one of them... 13:44:29 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.104.11] has joined #lisp 13:45:16 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-116-9.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:46:27 loke__: they're invariably tied to global names 13:46:45 xotedend [~quassel@50-77-75-69-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:29 mathrick: I see. 13:47:43 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-116-9.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:44 mathrick: You're right about that. It's impossible to create anonymous packages. 13:48:17 aye, which can bite you 13:48:20 -!- theAlgorist [~theAlgori@host5-216-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:48:45 -!- Posterdati [~kvirc@host5-216-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:48:57 mathrick: It did to me. I thought I was clever when I did (make-package (gensym)), not realising that the name is a string designator, not a symbol. 13:49:08 theAlgorist [~theAlgori@host5-216-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 13:50:30 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:44 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.251.151.176] has joined #lisp 13:50:44 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.251.151.176] has quit [Changing host] 13:50:44 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 13:50:50 loke__: you can specify a UUID as name 13:50:57 -!- igorww is now known as igorw 13:51:32 fenlix: yes, of course. But it would be nice if the package (and everything that it contains) would be garbage collected once I drop the reference to it. 13:51:37 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@192-177.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:51:39 With an UUID this will not happen 13:52:04 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:52:04 segv- [~mb@95-91-241-66-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:52:11 Although, perhaps this could be simulated using weak refrences? 13:52:32 CrazyEddy [~drunkery@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 13:55:27 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:55:31 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.104.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:55:44 -!- sellout- [~Adium@174-16-100-165.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:56:29 -!- Poenikatu [~Poenikatu@pdpc/supporter/bronze/poenikatu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:56:53 turduks 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[~email@dslb-088-068-018-048.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:28 -!- ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@ip-64-134-99-13.public.wayport.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:01:23 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.198.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:03:21 Guest62188 [~on@13.Red-83-44-158.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:59 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:04:00 Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 15:04:15 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 15:04:22 cgore [~cgore@cgore.com] has joined #lisp 15:04:31 To load "buildnode-excel": 15:04:39 Load 1 ASDF system: 15:04:39 buildnode-excel 15:04:39 ; Loading "buildnode-excel" 15:04:41 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 15:04:43 -!- TheShrubber [~jonas@ip123021.directconnect.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:04:51 [package net.acceleration.buildnode.excel]........ 15:04:51 [package net.acceleration.buildnode.excel]........ 15:04:51 [package net.acceleration.buildnode.excel]........ 15:04:51 [package urn.schemas-microsoft-com.office.spreadsheet] 15:04:51 [package urn.schemas-microsoft-com.office.spreadsheet] 15:04:51 BORK: 15:04:51 Execution of a form compiled with errors. 15:05:06 This is Form: 15:05:09 Form: 15:05:10 (ENSURE-LIST (BOURBAKI:SEEK-SYM :REL) WORD-SEPARATORS) 15:05:10 Compile-time error: 15:05:10 during macroexpansion of (ENSURE-LIST (BOURBAKI:SEEK-SYM :REL) WORD-SEPARATORS). Use *BREAK-ON-SIGNALS* to intercept. 15:05:10 15:05:10 Execution of a form compiled with errors. 15:05:11 Form: 15:05:11 (LET* ((BOURBAKI:SEEK-SYM (CAR #1=(CDR #:WHOLE21))) (:REL (CAR (CDR #1#)))) 15:05:12 (BLOCK ENSURE-LIST 15:05:12 (PLACE) 15:05:13 `(SETF ,PLACE 15:05:13 (IF (LISTP ,PLACE) 15:05:14 ,PLACE 15:05:14 (LIST ,PLACE))))) 15:05:21 Compile-time error: :REL is a keyword, and cannot be used as a local variable. 15:05:55 ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 15:06:11 Could you please tell me how to solve the problem? 15:06:28 thanks you very much 15:06:45 I'm using slime + emacs + sbcl in Debian 15:06:55 LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 15:07:08 don't bloody paste here! 15:08:54 Just trying to understand the error message... sorry, if this is not the place 15:08:57 Guest62188: Please use paste.lisp.org to avoid being unintentionally rude 15:10:25 -!- vaporatorius is now known as Vaporatorius 15:10:44 Guest62188: anyway, it looks like the seek-sym macro has a bug there 15:11:18 doesthiswork [~Adium@98.145.118.186] has joined #lisp 15:12:24 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:12:37 -!- munge [~user@cpe-075-178-033-080.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:13:43 If (SYMBOL-FUNCTION 'symbol) gives an error, how should I check whether a function is defined? 15:16:00 chenjf [~chenjf@58.253.216.142] has joined #lisp 15:16:27 -!- akbiggs [~akbiggs@64.215.160.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:16:33 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-207-112-125-176.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:17:14 clhs fboundp 15:17:14 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_fbound.htm 15:18:05 (and (fboundp symbol) (not (macro-function symbol)) (not (special-operator-p symbol))) 15:18:33 refried__ [~refried_@z69-94-207-36.ips.direcpath.com] has joined #lisp 15:18:48 thanks, found it already. 15:18:59 -!- ThePhoeron [~thephoero@CPE68b6fcc5ca13-CM68b6fcc5ca10.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:19:10 akbiggs [~akbiggs@64.215.160.65] has joined #lisp 15:19:37 Thanks, dlowe 15:19:50 cmack [~charlie@adsl-74-179-28-220.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:56 -!- Guest62188 [~on@13.Red-83-44-158.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.4.1] 15:20:40 ThePhoeron [~thephoero@CPE68b6fcc5ca13-CM68b6fcc5ca10.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 15:22:03 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 15:22:21 -!- dark_splinter [~dark_spli@a95-92-16-88.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:22:48 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:23:01 turduks [~goldginfe@bzq-109-65-25-233.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:32 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 15:24:56 -!- turduks [~goldginfe@bzq-109-65-25-233.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Killed (idoru (Spam is 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[Quit: leaving] 15:59:05 -!- randphu [~androirc@117.136.37.152] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:59:17 hlavaty: ping 15:59:24 sellout- [~Adium@c-67-176-62-45.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:49 fe[nl]ix: hi 16:00:57 I see you have cl-olefs 16:01:06 yes 16:02:06 hlavaty: http://paste.lisp.org/+301W 16:02:45 I think that depending on cffi is reasonable 16:03:02 nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 16:03:18 we're using it on ACL 16:03:27 great 16:03:41 good to hear it's useful 16:04:02 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.251.151.176] has joined #lisp 16:04:02 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.251.151.176] has quit [Changing host] 16:04:02 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:04:04 patches welcome; i suppose you hit lots of unimplemented functionality 16:04:06 nenorbot [~ronen@109.65.154.38] has joined #lisp 16:05:21 i'll think about the cffi dependency; i actually didn't want any dependency at all; or maybe using the portable library for this function; there is no beautiful solution to this tiny problem 16:06:12 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 16:06:44 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/18606130/how-to-implement-ccldouble-float-from-bits-function 16:06:56 or better http://www.cliki.net/ieee-floats 16:07:29 fe[nl]ix: may i ask what do you use it for? 16:07:46 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-219.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:08:29 for doc xls or ppt? 16:08:36 ieee-floats is nice 16:10:26 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #lisp 16:11:13 hlavaty: for xls files 16:11:13 kaygun_ [~kaygun@78.180.237.103] has joined #lisp 16:11:22 hi kaygun_ 16:11:39 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@rrcs-50-74-103-90.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:12:48 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@rrcs-50-74-103-90.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:13:24 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@rrcs-50-74-103-90.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:13:54 hlavaty: ok 16:14:11 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@rrcs-50-74-103-90.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:14:15 fe[nl]ix: ok what? 16:14:29 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@rrcs-50-74-103-90.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:14:35 I'll use ieee-floats 16:14:45 I timed it and it's not that much slower than cffi 16:15:05 great 16:15:06 randphu [~androirc@117.136.37.152] has joined #lisp 16:15:39 i hope it also does that that excel functions expects :-) 16:16:27 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 16:17:56 dcxi [~dcxi@136.Red-83-33-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:33 yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:47 -!- yrk [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:18:47 yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has joined #lisp 16:18:49 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@rrcs-50-74-103-90.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:19:29 i also dont like the dependencies on :trivial-gray-streams :alexandria, there is a better way 16:20:21 hlavaty: https://github.com/sionescu/cl-olefs/commit/8f7465075493918dc518624cbb1b3256ebd56a4b 16:20:23 later :) 16:20:50 fisxoj [~fisxoj@2620:101:f000:9c00:224:7eff:feda:1209] has joined #lisp 16:21:09 ah, seems i already removed those dependencies 16:21:31 fe[nl]ix: thanks for the patch! 16:21:58 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:24:00 zxq9 [~ceverett@209.119.94.254] has joined #lisp 16:25:56 oh cool, apparently ABCL now has some CFFI support 16:26:02 everything uses alexandria :P 16:28:15 Yanez [~Thunderbi@159.178.28.52] has joined #lisp 16:28:57 nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:16 smithzv [~user@duan145-252-dhcp.colorado.edu] has joined #lisp 16:32:22 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@rrcs-50-74-103-90.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:33:06 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:33:11 -!- antonv [5daba1b0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.171.161.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:33:44 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 16:35:17 Anybody know a way to tell the printer to use (quote <>) instead of '<>? 16:36:01 -!- H4ns [hans@netzhansa.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:36:09 normanrichards [~textual@cpe-24-27-51-104.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:37:08 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 16:37:55 -!- Joreji [~thomas@172-212.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:38:16 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:38:45 Joreji [~thomas@172-212.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 16:38:47 hpd [~hpd@hpdeifel.de] has joined #lisp 16:41:31 smithzv: bind *print-pretty* to nil 16:42:01 that's not going to help much 16:42:47 -!- randphu [~androirc@117.136.37.152] has quit [Quit: quit] 16:43:04 -!- arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-klsxxjooubszjiby] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:43:32 stassats: why not ? 16:43:47 because it's not specified to do that 16:45:35 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:46:30 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:41 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-qzhmnlbxeiplaeqd] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:48:31 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:49:37 -!- arrsim [~user@27-32-235-88.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:50:22 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@176.62.110.219] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 16:51:06 dark_splinter [~dark_spli@a95-92-16-88.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 16:52:18 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 16:55:07 -!- Joreji [~thomas@172-212.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:56:58 okflo 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-!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@rrcs-50-74-103-90.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:14:40 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 17:14:56 Tarential [~Tarential@li421-205.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 17:15:49 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.251.151.176] has joined #lisp 17:15:49 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@5.251.151.176] has quit [Changing host] 17:15:49 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:16:43 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:17:26 laduh [~ladu@61.4.77.85] has joined #lisp 17:18:30 -!- Tarential [~Tarential@li421-205.members.linode.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:18:50 -!- shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-ochchfsvzbmphgtn] has quit [Quit: shridhar] 17:18:52 Tarential [~Tarential@li421-205.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 17:19:49 -!- paddymahoney [~paddymaho@24.137.221.230] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:20:39 -!- ThePhoeron [~thephoero@CPE68b6fcc5ca13-CM68b6fcc5ca10.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:20:43 fe[nl]ix: Yeah, I think this is not controllable by the pretty printer, but I thought I would ask 17:20:54 ThePhoeron [~thephoero@CPE68b6fcc5ca13-CM68b6fcc5ca10.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 17:21:10 paddymahoney [~paddymaho@24.137.221.230] has joined #lisp 17:26:33 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-84-44-208-74.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:27:59 clhs set-pprint-dispatch 17:27:59 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_set_pp.htm 17:28:04 smithzv: you may do it yourself 17:29:32 -!- normanrichards [~textual@cpe-24-27-51-104.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [] 17:29:37 -!- iwilcox is now known as astrolabe 17:30:07 -!- astrolabe is now known as Guest99502 17:30:15 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:30 -!- Guest99502 is now known as iwilcox 17:30:56 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-67-176-62-45.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:32:17 -!- ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@unaffiliated/chibapet] has left #lisp 17:33:22 -!- dcxi [~dcxi@136.Red-83-33-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: dcxi] 17:33:53 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:34:52 Anybody know the appropriate C toolchain for building sbcl on windows? 17:35:00 mingw 17:35:07 stassats: that fails hard 17:35:21 it somehow ends up including /usrc/include/cygwin 17:35:30 which conflicts with pthreads_win32 17:35:33 you got wrong mingw then 17:35:39 stassats: fair enough 17:36:13 sellout- [~Adium@66.185.108.211] has joined #lisp 17:36:28 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-255-002.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:36:31 -!- clintm` is now known as clintm 17:37:36 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-133.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:38:24 -!- motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has quit [Quit: tschüß] 17:39:35 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 17:40:15 hmm, the .bat file from msys seems to give a really mesed up environment; I ran bash.exe directly and all is good. 17:42:21 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:45:03 normanrichards [~textual@cpe-24-27-51-104.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:46:34 zacharias_ [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 17:48:10 aptenodyte [~mtm@paetec91-92.hampshire.edu] has joined #lisp 17:49:18 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:49:23 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 17:49:50 -!- theAlgorist [~theAlgori@host5-216-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.2.0 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:50:10 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 17:50:12 http://paste.lisp.org/+301Z <-- okay stassats next error :) 17:50:50 -!- LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:51:11 you didn't include the actual error 17:51:43 but i can tell you straight away that you won't be able to build contribs on windows on 1.1.13 17:54:17 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@126.208-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 17:54:17 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@126.208-67-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Changing host] 17:54:17 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 17:54:18 can I build without contribs? 17:54:28 or should I build an older version? 17:55:18 it has been fixed since then 17:55:26 so git checkout? 17:55:33 that would do 17:55:41 ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@rrcs-50-74-103-90.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:56:44 -!- doesthiswork [~Adium@98.145.118.186] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:56:46 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 17:57:07 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:19 -!- foreignFunction 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18:14:47 Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat109.it.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 18:16:09 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:17:53 -!- Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat109.it.wsu.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 18:17:57 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:18:06 Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat109.it.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 18:23:25 sdemarre [~serge@157.106-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 18:23:46 thanks stassats , I have a windows build now that can save compressed core images :) 18:24:00 great 18:24:16 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:24:36 i'm working on solving gc deadlocks, so 1.1.14 on windows should rock 18:25:04 -!- zickzackv [~faot@p5DDB1E01.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:26:09 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-15-146.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 18:28:11 thanks 18:28:25 I prefer my lisp images without deadlocks 18:28:56 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #lisp 18:29:09 Is the gc on sbcl concurrent even when running in a single thread? 18:29:14 -!- ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@rrcs-50-74-103-90.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:31:11 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 18:33:48 -!- Tarential [~Tarential@li421-205.members.linode.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:34:09 Tarential [~Tarential@li421-205.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 18:34:14 -!- laduh [~ladu@61.4.77.85] has quit [] 18:34:54 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:37:30 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 18:42:11 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 18:44:17 -!- Stygia [~gmpsaifi@x1-6-00-21-9b-e8-d0-5a.k663.webspeed.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:44:21 TheShrubber [~jonas@ip123021.directconnect.no] has joined #lisp 18:47:15 -!- zacharias_ is now known as zacharias 18:52:43 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@rrcs-50-74-103-90.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:53:22 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 18:54:42 hmm, is sb-posix expected to fail to build on win32? 18:55:04 no 18:55:15 to both 18:56:36 -!- aptenodyte [~mtm@paetec91-92.hampshire.edu] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 18:56:46 ccorn [~ccorn@92.110.20.203] has joined #lisp 18:57:43 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 18:58:32 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-83-65.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:58:46 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-83-65.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 18:59:16 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:59:32 alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-83-65.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:59:49 drmeister [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 19:00:28 -!- Bike 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#lisp 19:15:51 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:17:31 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:42 -!- hiroaki [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:19:40 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:19:57 -!- add^_ [~user@m83-190-7-148.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:21:42 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:23:52 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-198-255-198-157.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:26:04 ejohnson1 [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:04 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:31:18 sz0 [~user@208.72.139.54] has joined #lisp 19:32:33 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:33 -!- ejohnson1 [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:32:53 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-117-214.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:33:03 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 19:33:06 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@92.110.20.203] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 19:35:40 bah, humbug. I can *save* zlib compressed images, but loading them seems to be a bit more tricky 19:36:28 ccorn [~ccorn@92.110.20.203] has joined #lisp 19:38:03 As in the windows "this application has encountered an error" dialogue pops up 19:40:48 -!- normanrichards [~textual@cpe-24-27-51-104.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [] 19:41:35 normanrichards [~textual@cpe-24-27-51-104.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:43:17 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ejohnson] 19:45:10 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:47:44 dcxi [~dcxi@136.Red-83-33-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:55 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@rrcs-50-74-103-90.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:51:46 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-15-146.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:57:46 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:57:52 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@rrcs-50-74-103-90.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:58:03 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #lisp 19:58:46 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:00:00 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-006-107.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:00:36 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@92.110.20.203] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 20:01:40 -!- smithzv [~user@duan145-252-dhcp.colorado.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:04:43 -!- Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat109.it.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:05:25 -!- echo-area [~user@114.254.106.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:06:14 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:06:16 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@086.112-30-64.ftth.swbr.surewest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:08:40 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-117-214.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:16 mv2devnul [~markv@host-206-54-202-223.entouch.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:20 -!- TheShrubber [~jonas@ip123021.directconnect.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:20:21 H4ns [hans@netzhansa.com] has joined #lisp 20:25:31 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26:09 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 20:27:04 ngz [~user@91.224.148.150] has joined #lisp 20:27:37 archonix [~none@78.90.30.16] has joined #lisp 20:27:45 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:28:05 smithzv [~user@duan145-252-dhcp.colorado.edu] has joined #lisp 20:28:09 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 20:30:41 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:31:57 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-006-107.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:32:38 -!- nydel [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-fafnalrzpznaixer] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:33:07 -!- sohail_ [~sohail@69-196-154-168.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:33:46 -!- doomlord_ [~servitor@host86-184-9-9.range86-184.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:36:40 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-133.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:39:33 -!- trebor_home [~email@dslb-088-068-018-048.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:39:55 Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 20:42:05 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:43:43 -!- LoicLisp [~loic@229.35.122.78.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:45:59 antgreen [~green@dsl-207-112-125-176.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 20:46:34 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-15-146.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 20:50:34 ccorn [~ccorn@92.110.20.203] has joined #lisp 20:52:31 -!- alexherbo2 [~alexherbo@APlessis-Bouchard-154-1-83-65.w83-199.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.3-dev] 20:53:17 -!- samskulls [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:53:53 Choovoo [~other@188.162.65.40] has joined #lisp 20:53:56 hello 20:54:57 is my struct(foo) has some fields with another struct type on copy-foo it does not copies nested structs? 20:55:11 przl [~przlrkt@p57923535.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:55:12 is there some deep-copy? 20:55:13 nope 20:55:24 you have to write that yourself 20:55:27 how deep should a deep-copy be? 20:55:33 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.65.128.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:55:48 Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:56 -!- round-robin [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:56:04 Ayey_ [~rune1@2-106-141-211-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:27 Yanez: 1 level deep at least, i mean it should copy struct foo and all nested structs in that foo struct. 20:57:19 choo: your answer explains why there's no builtin deep-copy... because lisp cannot know what 'deep-copy' means for you in each case 20:57:42 Yanez: okay, it should copy recursively every newted struct 20:57:49 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:57:58 is it fair defintion of deep copy? 20:58:25 choo: no, because slots can contain other types of objects... 20:58:35 ustunozg_ [~ustunozgu@rrcs-50-74-103-90.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:58:47 for example, let's say that one of your slots contains a list of arrays in which some of the elements (but not all) are structs 20:59:01 what should your deep-copy do in this case? 21:00:01 Yanez: so there is no way to tell if slot value is a struct? 21:00:09 Yanez: everything i guess 21:00:11 yes, of course... 21:01:04 what I'm trying to say is that the meaning of deep-copy is not known a priori, it's up to you to decide what it means 21:01:18 ah i forgot that structs in cl are lacking of introspection and you can't just (loop for field in (fields struct) do ...) . 21:01:37 Yanez: okay 21:01:40 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-219.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:01:45 it could be "copy the structure and if any of its slots contain a structure, copy those too recursively" 21:01:56 but again, that's only one possible definition 21:02:04 -!- ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@li283-143.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:02:13 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-80-133.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:02:14 Is it still worth it to watch the MIT SICP lectures, for learning a lisp and CS topics? 21:02:16 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 21:02:24 Ayey_: it is 21:02:25 well, now i need to implement that "copy the structure and if any of its slots contain a structure, copy those too recursively" definition. :) 21:02:32 not sure how though 21:02:39 Ayey_: reading SICP is surely worth it 21:02:44 k0001 [~k0001@host92.181-1-203.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 21:02:50 because i can't get all fields from struct, can i? 21:02:52 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-176-9-162.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:53 i'm not a huge fan of watching videos for learning stuff 21:03:00 bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:03:09 not even as a lecture? 21:03:23 too low-bandwidth 21:03:29 depends on the subject, i would think 21:03:41 and on the lecturer 21:03:41 choo: well, there are ways around that, that's not the issue... the issue is that lisp cannot know what you mean by deep-copy 21:03:58 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 21:04:26 Yanez: okay, i've accpeted that. :) 21:04:29 Choovoo: you can't indeed 21:04:50 I need to implement that recursive deep copy definition now 21:04:55 stassats: meh 21:05:10 so there is only one wat to do it - defstruct*? 21:05:18 way* 21:05:29 choovoo: is there a reason why you want to use defstructs and not clos objects? 21:05:50 Choovoo: that is going to be restricted to the structures you are defining 21:06:06 there are implementation-dependent ways of getting structure slots 21:06:08 stassats: yeah, thats bad. 21:06:26 stassats: how to do it with sbcl? 21:06:34 Yanez: clos is slow, i'm barely can afford cl performance for my task. 21:06:45 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:06:50 Choovoo: using MOP 21:06:52 slow? what implementation are you using? 21:06:58 hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 21:06:59 Yanez: sbcl 21:07:04 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p57923535.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:07:19 Choovoo: (sb-mop:class-slots (find-class 'hash-table)) 21:07:21 przl [~przlrkt@p57923535.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:07:45 tpp1 [~user@66.35.48.19] has joined #lisp 21:07:53 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p57923535.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 21:08:17 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@192-177.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08:31 nha [~prefect@koln-5d817d5f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:03 stassats: hm, does it work with structs? 21:09:27 yes, as i've just demonstrated 21:09:43 choo: what kind of task are you working on? 21:09:58 also if you're recursively copying structs, your task is already slow 21:10:06 clos is not going to have any real impact 21:10:31 oGMo: i don't see that being necessarily the case 21:10:33 and by "clos" i mean standard-objects 21:10:37 stassats: indeed, thanks. too bad there is no portable way to do it. :( 21:11:00 Yanez: n^3 array looping stuff 21:11:16 stassats: nothing's ever necessarily, but this is probably 21:11:24 can't be optimized(only popinter arithmetics). 21:11:30 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.129.65.80] has joined #lisp 21:12:41 -!- thelorax123 [~nodebot@165.225.138.217] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:50 choovoo: in this case I don't think that clos would be your speed limiting factor... 21:13:28 i'm trying to use closure-html from a asdf project, that also relies on ccl's cocoa support. the problem is that closure-common masks one of ccl's reader macros `#/`, that is later used by closure-html. is there any way to localize that reader macro without mmodifying closure-common/html? 21:13:31 thelorax123 [~nodebot@165.225.138.217] has joined #lisp 21:13:57 i messed around with asdf:perform :around and (let ((*readtable*... but i couldn't get it to work 21:14:08 Yanez: it won't be a limit but it will be faster without it. 21:14:51 choovoo: anyway, it's relatively easy to define your own structure-defining macro that saves the list of slots somewhere, so you can loop over them when needed 21:15:18 Yanez: 01:05 < stassats> Choovoo: that is going to be restricted to the structures you are defining 21:15:19 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:16:02 but i'm fine with that, thank you 21:16:03 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:15 -!- Choovoo [~other@188.162.65.40] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:16:31 desophos [~desophos@n163h87.dhcp.oxy.edu] has joined #lisp 21:17:22 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-237-71-197.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18:23 Pullphinger [~Pullphing@12.40.23.68] has joined #lisp 21:20:28 so you need to do that for arbitrary structures? 21:22:19 Stygia [~gmpsaifi@77.241.142.25.bredband.3.dk] has joined #lisp 21:24:24 -!- Ayey_ [~rune1@2-106-141-211-dynamic.dk.customer.tdc.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2] 21:25:55 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 21:26:16 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:26:46 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 21:27:33 -!- malbertife [~malbertif@host164-54-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:27:39 turduks [~goldginfe@bzq-79-179-154-165.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:22 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:28:46 -!- turduks [~goldginfe@bzq-79-179-154-165.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:29:05 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 21:29:12 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-197-79.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:29:51 arenz [~arenz@37.17.234.253] has joined #lisp 21:32:31 -!- Stygia [~gmpsaifi@77.241.142.25.bredband.3.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:35:37 |JRG| [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-34-137-211.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 21:35:38 -!- tpp1 [~user@66.35.48.19] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:36:27 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:36:46 Stygia [~gmpsaifi@109.59.111.68.mobile.3.dk] has joined #lisp 21:39:56 -!- archonix [~none@78.90.30.16] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:40:38 -!- desophos [~desophos@n163h87.dhcp.oxy.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:41:23 <|JRG|> hi lispers... 21:42:04 <|JRG|> according to the manual sb-ext:exit unwinds the stack (when abort is false) 21:42:28 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-5d817d5f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:42:52 <|JRG|> but in (with-open-file (s "test.txt" :direction :output) (format s "hello there~%") (exit :code 0)) no file is written 21:43:19 |JRG|: use (finish-output s) after the format 21:43:36 <|JRG|> s/the\ manual/the\ sbcl\ manual/ 21:43:38 this is an I/O detail, not a stack-unwinding problem 21:43:49 z' 21:44:23 -!- codeburg [~codeburg@85.183.24.157] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:44:26 <|JRG|> I would expect open to create the file though 21:44:56 <|JRG|> and all output is flushed, again according to the manual 21:45:23 try specifying :if-does-not-exist :create in your with-open-file form 21:45:45 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:46:35 <|JRG|> nope 21:46:37 <|JRG|> no luck 21:46:49 interesting. 21:47:09 <|3b|> clhs with-open-file 21:47:09 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_w_open.htm 21:47:50 oh, heh. it's mandated. 21:47:52 "If a new output file is being written, and control leaves abnormally, the file is aborted and the file system is left, so far as possible, as if the file had never been opened." 21:48:05 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:48:25 -!- ngz [~user@91.224.148.150] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:48:32 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 21:49:36 <|JRG|> isn't THROW a non local exit? 21:49:46 <|3b|> it is (if it exits) 21:50:07 <|JRG|> and shouldn't unwind-protect like, protect the protected form (oh dear) 21:50:41 ? 21:50:49 <|JRG|> and, anyway, I'm more referring to the SBCL manual: When abort is false (the default), current thread is first unwound, *exit-hooks* are run, other threads are terminated, and standard output streams are flushed before sbcl calls exit(3) -- at which point atexit(3) functions will run. If multiple threads call exit with abort being false, the first one to call it will complete the protocol. 21:51:20 foeniks [~fevon@p57A5DC75.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:52:38 nug700 [~nug700@71-35-74-99.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:52:59 <|JRG|> I can't help but think there's something wrong, either in the implementation or in the documentation 21:53:20 <|3b|> the stack is unwound, at which point with-open-file deletes any file it created for output 21:54:58 <|JRG|> |3b|: but isn't WITH-OPEN-FILE just an UNWIND-PROTECT? 21:55:15 <|3b|> something like that, yes 21:55:30 <|JRG|> and I've always put all my trust in UNWIND-PROTECT 21:55:33 <|3b|> that is the obvious way to implement it, but spec doesn't require that 21:55:42 <|3b|> unwind-protect works 21:55:53 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:56:00 <|JRG|> (with-open-file (s filename)) macroexpands to 21:56:01 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:08 <|JRG|> (LET ((S (OPEN FILENAME)) (#:G1308 T)) 21:56:08 <|JRG|> (UNWIND-PROTECT (MULTIPLE-VALUE-PROG1 (PROGN) (SETQ #:G1308 NIL)) 21:56:08 <|JRG|> (IF S 21:56:11 <|JRG|> (PROGN (CLOSE S :ABORT #:G1308)) 21:56:15 <|JRG|> NIL))) 21:56:24 <|JRG|> sorry for the flood should have used paste.lisp 21:56:54 -!- akbiggs [~akbiggs@64.215.160.65] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:56:56 close with :abort makes the file not happen, doesn't it 21:57:11 <|3b|> right, :abort t is what deletes the file 21:57:28 so, if exit happens before the setq... 21:58:31 *|3b|* wonders if SBCL's implementation of with-open-stream is conformant 21:58:36 <|JRG|> whoa 21:58:41 Whoa? 21:59:14 <|3b|> since with-open-stream expands to close with :abort also, but clhs just says "closed" 21:59:24 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:59:28 <|JRG|> that's true, that means non local exits are not supported 21:59:34 karswell [~user@87.114.85.91] has joined #lisp 21:59:42 *|3b|* supposes CLOSE :ABORT T does call CLOSE, but not sure that's what it means 22:00:06 <|3b|> |JRG|: non-local exit is explicitly supported, it just may not do what you want it to do in that case 22:00:23 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:30 <|JRG|> |3b|: ok 22:00:45 <|JRG|> too bad that works badly with exit 22:00:50 <|3b|> with-open-file interprets non-local exit as "abort the creation of the file", rather than "leave partial data laying around and hope nobody assumes it was complete later" 22:00:50 -!- brmj_work [444631d0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.70.49.208] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:01:06 <|JRG|> which I simply use to return a value from a standalone executable 22:01:41 <|3b|> probably better to put the EXIT outside the with-open-file 22:02:02 <|3b|> since you may want it to delete the file on errors 22:02:48 <|JRG|> actually I don't want, the open file is passed as the stream to log4cl 22:03:06 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-15-146.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:26 -!- ahungry_ [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:03:26 <|3b|> yeah, log file is a reasonable case to keep it open 22:03:33 <|3b|> keep the partial file i mean 22:03:52 <|JRG|> probably I will just use OPEN 22:04:09 <|JRG|> don't really need to close it ever... 22:04:42 ASau` [~user@p5083D79B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:04:53 <|JRG|> btw, thanks 22:05:55 -!- Pullphinger [~Pullphing@12.40.23.68] has quit [] 22:05:57 -!- ASau [~user@p5083D530.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:06:57 -!- xotedend [~quassel@50-77-75-69-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:09:22 desophos [~desophos@n163h87.dhcp.oxy.edu] has joined #lisp 22:11:18 <|3b|> hmm, ccl doesn't :abort on nlx from with-open-stream, clisp does 22:11:54 *|3b|* isn't sure which way is correct 22:14:24 -!- nialo- 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-!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:40:21 rotty [rotty@78.47.92.94] has joined #lisp 22:40:24 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:40:31 -!- syrinx [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:40:37 drmeist__ [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has joined #lisp 22:40:47 -!- jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:41:32 jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has joined #lisp 22:41:47 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@155.247.96.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:46:51 -!- Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:48:02 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 22:51:37 STilda [~kvirc@188.231.185.121] has joined #lisp 22:52:48 dented42 [~dented42@166.70.24.149] has joined #lisp 22:55:07 |3b|: what's nlx? 22:55:28 oh, non-local exit 22:55:31 carry on 22:56:21 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host92.181-1-203.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:59:02 -!- sellout- [~Adium@66.185.108.211] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:00:17 kobain [~sambio@unaffiliated/kobain] has joined #lisp 23:01:04 |JRG|: in case you're still in doubt, the CLHS passage quoted actually mandates that the file is not written. (exit) is an abnormal exit from the perspective of UNWIND-PROTECT (because it unwinds), and the spec mandates that in this case, the file creation should be undone 23:01:22 so unfortunate as it is for you, it works as specified and SBCL is right 23:01:46 bitonic` [~user@xdsl-188-155-179-93.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 23:01:53 |3b|: CLHS suggests :abort is the correct one 23:02:31 -!- foeniks [~fevon@p57A5DC75.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:03:12 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 23:03:19 -!- bitonic` is now known as bitonic 23:03:32 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.129.65.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:03:38 k0001 [~k0001@host92.181-1-203.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 23:06:00 -!- kaygun_ [~kaygun@78.180.237.103] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:07:39 -!- kaygun__ [~kaygun@78.180.237.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:08:13 -!- nugnuts [~nugnuts@pool-74-105-21-221.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 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[~eudoxia@r190-135-0-204.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 23:28:33 -!- nenorbot [~ronen@109.65.154.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:28:53 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-0-204.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:29:31 sellout- [~Adium@174-16-100-165.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:37 munge [~user@cpe-075-178-033-080.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:31:28 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:32:48 -!- cgore [~cgore@cgore.com] has left #lisp 23:34:58 turduks [~goldginfe@bzq-79-179-154-165.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:17 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #lisp 23:36:52 -!- turduks [~goldginfe@bzq-79-179-154-165.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Killed (idoru (Spam is off topic on freenode.))] 23:38:51 <|JRG|> mathrick: it does make sense 23:39:55 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5DD9F10C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 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