00:00:45 -!- 45PAAJPFD [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: 45PAAJPFD] 00:01:10 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:01:33 -!- Zagaba` is now known as Zagaba 00:01:36 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 00:03:18 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-173-53-114-190.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:04:05 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 00:04:46 r [~r@pool-71-174-35-25.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:09 -!- r is now known as Guest37344 00:05:57 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:07:30 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@170-145.192-178.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:10:30 namccarty [~namccarty@74-131-94-214.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 00:10:33 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@5.22.135.157] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 00:11:13 -!- Guest37344 [~r@pool-71-174-35-25.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:18:46 platypine [platypine@unaffiliated/doritos] has joined #lisp 00:19:38 -!- namccarty [~namccarty@74-131-94-214.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:20:00 deadghost [~deadghost@pool-173-55-80-153.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:20:18 Sgeo [~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:12 Marcela: What kind of help do you need? Can you count the number of occurences of an element in a flat list? 00:22:13 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:22:19 Can you find the sublists? 00:22:33 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 00:26:17 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:26:41 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 00:27:27 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host25.190-137-201.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:27:35 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 00:28:39 -!- rk[zzz] is now known as ryankarason 00:29:39 how long do I have to use lisp 00:29:47 before I stop going OMFG WTF IS GOING ON 00:31:31 Munksgaard [~philip@80-71-132-106.u.parknet.dk] has joined #lisp 00:32:38 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:32:39 deadghost: 0 second, if you start from the beginning. 00:32:41 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:32:43 Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ http://www-cgi.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs.cmu.edu/user/dst/www/LispBook/index.html 00:34:36 is the 1990 version sufficient? 00:35:08 idk what changes have happened since there 00:35:11 besides quicklisp 00:35:14 *then 00:37:30 No changes. There's only one version of the standard. 00:37:50 We're not scheme, we a new rnrs every couple of years 00:40:34 The modern world is a dream. Reality stopped in 1994. 00:40:50 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:41:31 Instead of playing catch-up with a moving targets on quick sands, you can just build your own programs on stable grounds. 00:44:16 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:44:48 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:43 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has joined #lisp 00:49:10 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:51:52 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:56:02 -!- Munksgaard [~philip@80-71-132-106.u.parknet.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:04:44 vircures [~vircures@70-88-17-218-chattanooga-tn.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:09 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 01:05:52 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:14:23 joe9 [~user@ip70-179-153-227.fv.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:17:36 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.95.118] has left #lisp 01:17:36 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:17:46 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 01:18:20 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:25:29 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 01:27:29 mathrick__ [~mathrick@94.144.63.86] has joined #lisp 01:28:26 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 01:31:04 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@94.144.63.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:32:44 : I can count on a flat list 01:32:53 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:33:11 like: (count element list) 01:33:26 Now, how to find the sublists of a list? 01:35:13 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 01:35:46 -!- Nisstyre-laptop is now known as nisstyre 01:42:16 gko_ [gko@114-32-172-194.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:43:46 (defun count-top (a L) 01:43:46 (cond 01:43:46 ((null L) 0) 01:43:46 ((equal a (car L)) (+ 1 (count-top a (cdr L)))) 01:43:46 (t (count-top a (cdr L))))) 01:44:02 this is how I contect the occurance of one element 01:44:32 now I can't figure out how to count the accurance of this element at all levels in a multilevel list 01:44:37 don't paste here 01:45:00 pardon 01:47:04 sellout- [~Adium@97-118-101-232.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:48:10 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@5.22.135.157] has joined #lisp 01:49:49 Marcela: add a test to detect sublists. 01:49:49 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:50:36 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 01:58:07 nialo- [~nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 01:59:16 -!- CrazyEddy [~machan@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:01:19 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:04:12 -!- jk121960 [~jk121960@108-89-22-112.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 02:07:36 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:08:08 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 02:10:33 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.206.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:11:02 -!- cantstanya [~what@2001:5c0:1000:a::349] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:12:39 ASau` [~user@p54AFFE23.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 02:12:39 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:13:14 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 02:16:13 -!- ASau [~user@p5083D38C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:16:15 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-161-114.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 02:17:03 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-184-50.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:17:31 nydel [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-ofonlzgkoftafext] has joined #lisp 02:17:38 k0001 [~k0001@host184.190-136-197.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 02:21:57 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 02:22:39 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-67-9.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:23:37 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-67-9.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:24:25 -!- doomlord__ [~servitor@host86-184-9-9.range86-184.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:26:37 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 02:33:16 jlongster [~user@pool-173-53-114-190.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:46:36 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:48:54 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has joined #lisp 02:51:36 Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5DD9FBD6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 02:53:56 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:55:28 gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:30 -!- kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-213-168-88-171.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:55:32 -!- vircures [~vircures@70-88-17-218-chattanooga-tn.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: vircures] 02:56:08 kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-87-78-48-177.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:57:17 KarlDscc [~localhost@p5DD9CD34.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 02:57:38 prxq_ [~mommer@x2f6ba92.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lisp 02:58:00 -!- nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fedb:a448] has quit [Quit: bye] 02:58:37 -!- prxq [~mommer@x2f6c379.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:00:57 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5DD9FBD6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:03:29 CrazyEddy [~hermitic@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 03:04:11 if i've set up a hunchentoot acceptor on port 801 or something, what is the best way to make it retrievable via a hyperlink that does not specify a port on the machine, that is, if the machine is running some other webserver on 80? 03:06:39 often the server running on port 80 can be setup to proxy requests to other application servers, i.e. lighttpd and nginx are commonly used for this, but apache also allows that 03:07:59 phadthai: that sounds like a better option than setting up an index.lisp that loads up drakma and http-requests the other page hehe 03:08:51 phadthai: what search string might help me arrive at the appropriate information/tutorial? 03:08:57 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.3.85] has joined #lisp 03:09:19 you redirect ports on a router or on your machine with iptables 03:09:42 hmm I myself have a question heh... anyone have experience using multiple slime buffers connected to multiple swank/lisp side streams? Does slime even support that? i.e. to have multiple interactive interfaces, log-views etc 03:10:04 what's a log-view? 03:10:12 will iptables discriminate via http vhost? I think he already runs a server on port 80 03:10:29 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:10:45 i.e. the equivalent of a shell with tail -F , but a lisp stream directly sent to a specific window 03:10:52 (other than the main repl window) 03:11:08 cory786 [~cory@75-22-101-128.lightspeed.dblnoh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:11:22 what kind of crazy black concurrency magick are you after, phadthai 03:11:25 you can connect to an arbitrary number of swank servers 03:11:42 nydel: one could set up a virtualhost with apache that uses mod_proxy to forward to another port which has the hunchentoot acceptor running 03:11:44 hmm could a single image run multiple swank instances then? heh 03:11:59 yes 03:12:05 nydel: just general interactive development and debugging, it seems useful to have multiple small repls etc 03:12:16 stassats: that's nice to know and a good start, thanks 03:12:34 there's even mrepl, but it's probably broken 03:12:41 Ah, goddammit, why emacs always has to break at random moments of a time? Is it a feature or what? 03:13:24 sauerkrause: mod_proxy.. that sounds like the plan. it /is/ apache on that machine i think, or nginx, apache i think. i'm a little locked out at the moment.' 03:13:29 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 03:14:56 pjb` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-145-41.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 03:16:24 ob_ [~ob@209.248.161.244.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 03:16:49 -!- pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-5-46.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:21:49 -!- gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gendl] 03:22:07 harish [~harish@fbb-kl-my.mykris.net] has joined #lisp 03:25:35 effy_ [~quassel@123.116.59.36] has joined #lisp 03:26:12 -!- effy [~quassel@111.197.232.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:26:15 -!- KarlDscc [~localhost@p5DD9CD34.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:30:21 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host184.190-136-197.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:30:50 -!- ob_ [~ob@209.248.161.244.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:38:16 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-173-53-114-190.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:44:32 cheryllium [~chatzilla@128.237.137.12] has joined #lisp 03:44:55 -!- cory786 [~cory@75-22-101-128.lightspeed.dblnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:45:14 is there any windows GUI library for sbcl? 03:45:26 there's commonqt 03:45:38 I had an issue with installing commonqt 03:45:47 I tried using quicklisp, but ran into an error 03:46:04 of course you did, you can't install it with just quicklisp 03:46:04 You first need to install QT itself. 03:46:21 hmm, is there a way to check if I have qt installed? 03:46:25 i've had success with tcl/tk across platforms 03:46:36 because I believe I did have it installed as I have qt designer installed as well as pyqt 03:46:36 you can quicklisp cl-tk for a good package 03:46:39 installing just qt is not enough either 03:46:53 hmm okay, I'll try cl-tk then 03:47:14 no! don't give up on commonqt! 03:47:28 haha okay. why is commonqt better than tcl/tk? 03:47:55 Because it's QT! 03:48:12 it depends on what you want to do. tcl/tk is great for the most simple interfaces you might need. 03:49:44 oh oh or you can use hunchentoot and make your graphical front-end a web-based ordeal 03:49:50 I'm trying to install qt now, which binary should I install? 03:49:56 I know it's 64-bit windows 03:50:14 http://common-lisp.net/project/commonqt/#id105851 03:50:17 but there are two of them, one says (VS 2012, 525 MB) and the other (VS 2012, OpenGL, 522 MB) 03:50:24 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has joined #lisp 03:50:31 Ah I see 03:50:36 need qt 4.8, not 5 03:51:08 thanks, I'll install and try again 03:51:23 you also need visual studio installed, and the smokeqt library 03:52:15 which version of visual studio? latest version (2013) okay? 03:52:25 probably 03:53:04 building smokegen/smokeqt will probably be a pain, you also need cmake 03:54:30 what version of visual studio do you have, stassats? 03:54:48 i don't use windows 03:54:50 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:54:58 I see 03:55:14 that it's windows is a big part of why i say go with tcl/tk 03:55:26 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:55:47 alright, I'll go with tcl/tk. I'll come back to commonqt for other os's 03:55:48 well, once you've got everything compiled, commonqt is easy 03:55:56 nydel: that would be too easy. 03:56:16 and maybe and some point a certain individual will upload prebuild binaries 03:56:22 i'm all for making windows more difficult just not for commonlispers :) 03:56:59 stassats: why haven't anyone done this yet? 03:57:11 hitecnologys: because nobody uses windows 03:57:14 I just want to write a windows desktop app in sbcl, I just keep trying and failing to install various libraries 03:57:42 stassats: I see 03:58:08 enough consumers use windows however that it should still be relevant 03:58:43 oh bloody hell, maybe i'll try to build it today 03:59:09 i think either allegro or the other one have a gui thing built in 03:59:20 if you're gonna do the windows thing that is. 03:59:23 stassats, are you somebody famous 03:59:55 you just sound like a figure of authority here :) 04:00:32 i'm famous for sounding like a figure of authority 04:00:47 stassats usually answers my questions or insults me, whichever one i deserve 04:01:13 searching for "smokeqt windows install" has turned up no useful results 04:01:26 *stassats* goes to fish out a windows machine 04:01:38 I'd love to use qt but I'm afraid it will take me all night to get it set up, if I even manage to do that 04:02:48 stassats: if you don't have windows machine, I can try to build it probably, I have one. 04:03:20 i fetched one 04:03:40 OK. 04:06:48 hitecnologys: you can test it later, if you want 04:08:35 stassats: sure 04:08:58 ozialien [~ernest@ip98-167-234-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:21:14 -!- MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 04:23:03 nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 04:24:23 chare [322f5f0f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.47.95.15] has joined #lisp 04:24:27 what is letrec? 04:24:58 it's from scheme 04:25:01 try #scheme 04:27:26 NOE 04:27:39 -!- loke` [~user@2400:d803:7342:f91a:25ed:7da1:be5a:3f52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:28:07 loke` [~user@2400:d803:7342:f91a:79d9:ee33:8b65:96d7] has joined #lisp 04:33:25 syrinx [~quassel@ip68-1-175-223.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:33:25 -!- syrinx [~quassel@ip68-1-175-223.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 04:33:25 syrinx [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 04:34:44 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:34:52 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 04:35:51 beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-51-17.w109-223.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 04:36:03 Good morning everyone! 04:36:03 beach, memo from mathrick__: random food for thought: make it less than excruciatingly painful to implement a Vim mode on top of Climacs? 04:36:03 beach, memo from mathrick: also, an important matter to settle: VIER will be stand for what? VIER Improves EINE's Revisions? :) 04:36:33 mathrick__: 1 is already done. 04:36:58 Morning, beach. 04:37:20 name it quatre-vingt-dix-neuf 04:37:46 minion: what does QUATREVINGTDIXNEUF stand for? 04:37:46 42 04:37:54 close enough 04:38:10 minion: what does VIER stand for? 04:38:10 Vestiarium Interannular Endoplastular Roper 04:38:38 I think that question was answered. VIER already exists, so we can't use it. 04:38:59 stassats: maybe he's right. We just need to build another supercomputer to prove it. 04:39:00 Otherwise, it would be trivial I think: VIER Is Emacs Rewritten. 04:40:19 i haven't come up with a name for my own ide yet 04:40:35 which is the hardest part 04:40:38 Name it CIE then. 04:40:53 Coolest IDE Ever. 04:41:02 Sounds like a good name. 04:42:13 -!- chare [322f5f0f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.47.95.15] has left #lisp 04:42:39 IDE To End All IDEs 04:43:18 No, you can't use this name. It's already been used. It's VIM. 04:44:59 how are the binaries coming along? 04:47:00 cheryllium: good, I guess. 04:47:07 -!- segmondx [~segmond@adsl-108-73-162-111.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:51:32 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has joined #lisp 04:51:33 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:52:09 k0001 [~k0001@host25.190-137-201.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 04:52:28 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 04:56:22 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:58:34 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@5.22.135.157] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 04:59:14 lyanchih [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 04:59:15 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:03:36 alezost [~user@128-70-197-79.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 05:06:21 jking [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:41 deadghost_ [~deadghost@pool-173-55-80-153.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:09:12 minion: memo for mathrick: The buffer editing and the buffer update protocols are completely implemented now. It worked out as planned. 05:09:13 Remembered. I'll tell mathrick when he/she/it next speaks. 05:09:36 aerique_ [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 05:09:41 ``Erik_ [~erik@pool-74-103-94-19.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:10:52 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 05:11:12 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:11:20 ve_ [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 05:11:27 Hmm. 05:11:28 minion: Are you here? 05:11:28 Oh, well. 05:11:28 -!- ggherdov [sid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tsvklseecbmcnnzo] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:11:28 -!- j_king [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:11:28 yes 05:11:28 -!- deadghost [~deadghost@pool-173-55-80-153.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:11:28 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:11:28 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:11:29 -!- ``Erik [~erik@pool-74-103-94-19.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:11:29 -!- tvaalen [~r@kinda.sorta.maybe.going.postal.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:11:29 -!- ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:11:29 tvaalen [~r@80.77.87.228] has joined #lisp 05:11:36 -!- ve_ is now known as ve 05:12:05 -!- killmaster [killmaster@89.181.158.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:12:29 killmaster [killmaster@89.181.158.79] has joined #lisp 05:13:55 Zhivago: "off the streets", huh? 05:14:33 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 05:17:14 ggherdov [sid11402@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-imapqxypxznttvmi] has joined #lisp 05:17:27 Well, I've been playing with iolib recently and I wonder how do I properly chose backlog value? 05:18:20 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 05:18:50 I mean: what is the right method of choosing it? 05:20:07 s/chose/choose/ 05:20:35 -!- bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: bgs100] 05:24:27 anyone familiar with cl-ppcre? i'm trying to replace all newlines in a string using regex-replace-all but can't figure the character for newline 05:24:41 i expect it to be \\n but that doesn't appear to be correct 05:25:32 nydel: try using $ 05:25:38 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:27:38 ohh, you're probably thinking to isolate line ends, yeah? as places where newlines occur 05:27:55 that's all well & good except i want to insert newlines there as well 05:27:57 nydel: what's wrong with \\n? 05:28:27 stassats: cl-ppcre doesn't seem to recognize \\n as a newline.. do i need the cl-interpol package? 05:28:32 no 05:28:53 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has joined #lisp 05:29:16 hmm 05:29:21 -!- gko_ [gko@114-32-172-194.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:30:00 nydel: try "(?m)(\\n)" 05:30:37 -!- ryankarason is now known as rk[zzz] 05:33:23 \\n works in most situations however, 05:33:42 when i read some files i've written, the end of a line read to string is ^M 05:33:49 i've not seen that before, what is ^M 05:34:19 it's \\r 05:34:36 as in, you've yourself CRLF 05:34:44 starfighter [~starfight@174-28-221-176.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:34:49 got 05:36:26 -!- starfighter [~starfight@174-28-221-176.albq.qwest.net] has left #lisp 05:40:36 stassats as always you rock, thank you 05:40:52 (cl-ppcre:regex-replace-all "([^\\]])(\\r)" string "\\1\\2
\\2")) ==> desired results 05:41:03 -!- deadghost_ is now known as deadghost 05:41:21 not sure why but it seems to want me to capture the \\r rather than write it out 05:42:07 the replacement strings does not parse regexes 05:42:27 but your thing will fail when if you read a non-windows file 05:42:56 or if you use an implementation which supports different line-endings 05:43:17 i wrote these files on linux 05:43:29 in slime using with-open-file 05:43:50 i'm a bit confused as to why their line endings are as such. 05:45:02 when i load them up into emacs it does think they are DOS format 05:45:11 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-67-9.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:45:24 that couldn't be caused by file extension could it? 05:45:43 Nope. 05:46:10 Emacs is just good at auto detecting line endings formats. 05:46:22 hum 05:50:34 anything about this http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6386062/ seem like it should save to DOS format? 05:50:52 also if anyone's interested here is the entire project i'm working on http://pastebin.ubuntu.com/6386064/ 05:52:34 nydel: don't use cl-who, use hctsmsl. 05:53:28 i included cl-who but actually i never used it, i used cl-markup instead. forgot to remove the who line 05:53:37 i will look at hctsmsl now though 05:54:28 wait oh no i did use it once for a form. is cl-who obsolete 05:54:48 no 05:54:51 Not really. 05:55:47 any/all other input/criticism would be greatly appreciated 05:56:23 not limited simply to why the data files are saving in a DOS format 05:57:35 I can't say that HCTSMSL is faster than cl-who or cl-markup (I've never done any real benchmarks) but it's definitely more convenient. 05:59:25 scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 05:59:36 the forms look beautiful, in lisp i mean 06:00:06 how would one know about this, what with it not being on cliki? are there other popular places 06:00:32 Dunno, I don't really care. 06:00:39 You can put it here, if you want. 06:01:02 I mostly developed it for myself because I want human-readable HTML. 06:01:19 oh this is yours, hitecnologys? 06:01:32 nydel: HCTSMSL is mine, yes. 06:01:50 i love the formatting mode specification. doing that myself is so tedious with other packages 06:01:50 [1]august [~august@70-57-250-65.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:01:55 this looks great 06:02:14 Btw, README is a bit obsolete. All HTML5 tags are supported now. 06:02:14 oh wow and your css forms are properly intuitive 06:03:30 i assume it needs to be cloned, quicklisp won't know what it is right 06:03:40 Quicklisp knows. 06:03:55 (ql:quicklisp :hctsmsl) should work just fine. 06:04:29 And I should probably add this to README. 06:05:16 oh cool. i cloned it to local-projects anyway but way to go being included 06:06:32 i assume the package is named as a shishkabab of the words html and css 06:06:46 Yup. 06:07:52 I dunno what am I going to do after I add JS support. Somebody suggested jhstsmsls but that sounds horrible. 06:09:50 nydel: and don't really trust output of every command in README, there are some missing parts somewhere. 06:10:06 doomlord_ [~servitor@host86-184-9-9.range86-184.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 06:10:12 It's pretty easy to guess what it missing but be careful. 06:11:29 hitecnologys: thanks, i'll be reading the source closely as i get comfortable with it, so all will be well 06:12:08 this is exciting, i was about to buckle down and write this myself. instead i'm blessed with a version already written that works (mine would not have) 06:12:45 hitecnologys: the < nickname is just lovely 06:13:07 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host25.190-137-201.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:13:11 -!- kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-87-78-48-177.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:13:14 wait i never figured out why my wiki is writing DOS files 06:13:26 kaygun_ [~kaygun@78.180.237.103] has joined #lisp 06:15:13 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-171-218.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:16:10 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@112.10.117.233] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:17:12 I think it has something to do with your OS. 06:17:41 ubuntu linux? never had such an issue as this before.. 06:17:53 Hmm. 06:19:11 I have no idea why this happens then. Everything looks fine. 06:19:29 -!- [1]august [~august@70-57-250-65.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- Like it? Visit #hydrairc on EFNet] 06:19:39 Try checking what server sends you. 06:21:31 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:21:31 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:22:03 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 06:26:37 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:28:41 -!- Pullphinger [~Pullphing@c-24-13-69-42.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:29:37 loke__ [~user@2400:d803:7342:f91a:7577:38a0:963c:68a6] has joined #lisp 06:30:02 -!- loke__ [~user@2400:d803:7342:f91a:7577:38a0:963c:68a6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:30:02 -!- loke` [~user@2400:d803:7342:f91a:79d9:ee33:8b65:96d7] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:32:53 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 06:37:37 -!- zz_karupanerura is now known as karupanerura 06:38:36 -!- karupanerura is now known as zz_karupanerura 06:38:57 Is there any difference between (setf foo x bar y) and (setf foo x) (setf bar y)? 06:39:06 no 06:39:29 At all? 06:39:35 at all 06:39:42 Cool, thanks. 06:40:11 -!- kaygun_ [~kaygun@78.180.237.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:43:26 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-21-124-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:44:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.243.88] has joined #lisp 06:44:58 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.243.88] has quit [Changing host] 06:44:59 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 06:46:19 -!- Ambit [~chatzilla@c-50-161-33-61.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:55:57 zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.88.25] has joined #lisp 06:58:43 -!- Marcela [~Marcela__@67-204-244-234.eastlink.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:00:27 hitecnologys: I think the hyperspec even says that exactly 07:00:27 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:00:32 Munksgaard [~philip@80-71-132-106.u.parknet.dk] has joined #lisp 07:00:35 clhs setf 07:00:35 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_setf_.htm 07:01:00 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 07:03:07 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 07:08:06 -!- cheryllium [~chatzilla@128.237.137.12] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 25.0/20131025151332]] 07:09:28 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:09:57 jasom: yeah, but maybe some compilers do it in a different manner. 07:12:19 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:17:27 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@5.22.135.157] has joined #lisp 07:18:51 loke` [~user@2400:d803:7342:f91a:7577:38a0:963c:68a6] has joined #lisp 07:18:56 they are not allowed to 07:19:49 I see. 07:22:28 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 07:22:49 looks i can't build a thing on this windows 07:23:16 the machine is too slow and everything is alien 07:25:43 lyanchih [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 07:26:04 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 07:27:13 I can try building it but you need to wait for about 3-4 hours then. 07:29:23 francis_wolke [~user@c-98-207-155-161.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:29:30 i may be just missing some PATH 07:30:08 OK 07:34:37 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-147-235.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:35:25 i was able to load the library, but it doesn't work 07:35:29 -!- nydel [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-ofonlzgkoftafext] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:35:56 i need to try doing it in a less haphazard way, but i'm sick of it already 07:36:00 maybe some next time 07:36:16 Does it at least display something? 07:36:32 maybe it's better to pirate some windows for a virtual machine 07:36:33 no 07:36:48 But it loads without any errors? 07:36:56 yep 07:37:25 This is totally weird. 07:37:48 you're telling me 07:38:32 maybe my mistake was in getting VS 2013, not 2010 07:38:43 but the process is so slow, i don't to repeat it 07:38:53 i would need to wait a month to forget the pain 07:39:01 maybe then 07:39:49 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@183.12.88.25] has left #lisp 07:39:59 There's one thing that may work better: mingw. 07:40:48 David said that VS is the way to go 07:40:58 Hmm. 07:41:40 mrSpec [~Spec@77-254-129-79.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #lisp 07:41:40 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@77-254-129-79.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Changing host] 07:41:40 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:43:48 I was able to successfully cross-compile OpenGL for Windows using Linux once but it was so painful that I don't really want to do this again. 07:44:09 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:44:10 Or it was SDL, I don't really remember. 07:44:18 Something like this. 07:44:56 it may be not that painful if i knew which steps happened and what files were created where, so i could backtrack 07:46:01 VS is not a very good tool for such activities. 07:46:54 success, i didn't run it from the main thread 07:47:06 Ah. 07:47:26 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 07:47:42 But why? What's so special about main thread? 07:48:09 beats me 07:48:55 I see. 07:49:10 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-147-235.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:50:11 ok, i can now upload the files, but i still need to streamline the process to provide future updates 07:51:18 TheSpectre [~MingHong@bb119-74-23-227.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 07:55:05 hitecnologys: http://common-lisp.net/project/commonqt/commonqt-libs-20131109.zip put it somewhere where the PATH is, you also need Qt libraries (4.8.5 VS) 07:55:30 hiroakip [~hiroaki@p54830F96.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:56:20 Aha, I'll test it a bit later. 07:58:27 2GB of RAM on windows is utterly not enough for such endeavors 07:58:54 I have 8, should be enough. 08:00:26 if only somebody wrote a C++ ffi, then there would be no need for such things 08:00:52 arenz [~arenz@37.17.234.253] has joined #lisp 08:03:57 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:04:06 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:04:14 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 08:06:55 BrianRice` [~water@c-24-18-219-78.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:07:26 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-24-18-219-78.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:07:26 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 08:08:35 hiroaki [~hiroaki@p548321E9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:12:07 przl [~przlrkt@p579235F0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:12:07 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@p54830F96.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:19:26 minion: memo for mathrick: The description of the buffer protocols in the documentation is now fairly complete if you want to have a look. 08:19:26 Remembered. I'll tell mathrick when he/she/it next speaks. 08:20:09 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-147-235.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:21:14 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:21:15 stassats: OK, I have freshly installed Windows. Now I need to install sbcl, quicklisp, qt and visual studio and then put compiled library at PATH? 08:26:59 nialo- [~nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 08:28:54 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 08:28:54 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:29:46 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 08:31:05 nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fedb:a448] has joined #lisp 08:31:44 -!- jack_rabbit [~jack_rabb@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:33:28 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 08:36:34 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.206.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 08:36:35 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:37:00 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 08:39:02 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:42:54 jewel [~jewel@105-236-138-104.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:47:30 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:52:53 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p579235F0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:55:18 przl [~przlrkt@p579235F0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:00:42 -!- nug700 [~nug700@209-181-102-38.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 09:04:09 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 09:15:29 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:15:40 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 09:20:16 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 09:23:54 Well, I've installed everything but it doesn't see my dlls. 09:29:21 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@231-141.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 09:29:36 -!- Athas [~athas@sigkill.dk] has left #lisp 09:30:01 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has joined #lisp 09:31:05 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p579235F0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:31:38 pjb`` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-225-223.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:33:50 -!- pjb` [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-145-41.w83-202.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:35:11 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:35:16 if i want to mix C and Lisp in new project what would do best? ive read about cffi and vacietis, however haven't used any yet. 09:35:30 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:38:32 jackdaniel: FFI is the only option you have. Or try using ECL, it compiles to C. 09:38:52 -!- Guest97484 [~entity@c-50-136-180-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:39:49 hitecnologys: thanks 09:39:55 whats wrong with the latter tho? 09:40:26 Nothing. 09:41:01 But ECL is just cheating. 09:41:13 i mean with vacietis :p 09:41:26 jackdaniel: Out of curiosity, what would the parts written in C do? 09:41:38 it would be my first pick tbh, but i decided to ask more experienced people 09:42:50 jackdaniel: I'm not sure about quality of code it generates. 09:43:01 jackdaniel: you can try it too, though. 09:43:04 beach: well, it's not clear yet. We're making engineer diploma project with my fellow students and it involves parsing functions from user of application, so i suggested lisp. They don't know it, im learining it, but it will cut 50% of work out of the box 09:43:15 if we can mix it 09:43:42 so my parts would be in lisp, and their in c 09:43:47 jackdaniel: I see. Thanks. 09:43:49 I'd better prefer using FFI in this case. 09:43:51 beach: :) 09:44:23 ok, thanks 09:54:00 Marcela [~Marcela__@67-204-244-234.eastlink.ca] has joined #lisp 09:54:24 Guest97484 [~entity@c-50-136-180-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:00:52 -!- pjb`` is now known as pjb 10:03:02 Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 10:05:07 lyanchih [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:06 -!- prxq_ [~mommer@x2f6ba92.dyn.telefonica.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:06:25 prxq [~mommer@x2f6ba92.dyn.telefonica.de] has joined #lisp 10:07:48 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:09:09 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-67-9.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 10:10:24 hitecnologys: there's a big difference between (setf x u y v) and (setf x u) (setf y v). Try: (cl:in-package "CL-USER") (defpackage "P1" (:use)) (defvar *v*) (setf *package* (find-package "P1")) (setf *v* 42) ; and compare with (cl:in-package "CL-USER") (setf *package* (find-package "P1") *v* 42) 10:11:01 As always, take anything that stassats says with a grain of salt :-( 10:11:32 really? they're not the same? 10:14:08 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 10:15:06 Not always. Just try the above expressions! 10:16:58 mordocai [44bbf2a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.187.242.165] has joined #lisp 10:18:25 jackdaniel: if the main function will be in the C language, ECL might be easier to do it than another implementation with CFFI. ECL can be deployed as a usual library /usr/lib/libecl.so and so can be the code you'll write in ECL; it'll be easier to call it from C than with other implementations too. 10:19:20 So, I decided to learn lisp today and I ran into a problem. I'm trying to use sbcl with one of my co-workers libaries (who is unfortunately camping right now) https://github.com/cgore/sigma. I followed his instruction in his readme, but when I do the (require :sigma) step I get http://paste.lisp.org/display/139843. Can someone help me please? 10:19:22 pjb: Oh, right, because in the first case there are two expressions that are read and evaluated sequentially, whereas in the second case there is a single expression that is read once. 10:19:42 T 10:20:10 pjb: Hi by the way. I have been busy with Climacs this week, but I'll get back to you eventually. 10:20:14 i see 10:20:17 Hi! :-) 10:21:49 Using debian wheezy, sbcl 2:1.0.57.0-2 according to package manager if that helps. 10:24:13 mordocai: THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE COPYRIGHT HOLDERS AND CONTRIBUTORS "AS IS" 10:24:18 mordocai: THIS SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED BY THE COPYRIGHT HOLDERS AND CONTRIBUTORS \"AS IS\" 10:24:34 ahhhh, thank you. I'll submit a pull request assuming it works 10:24:37 it's missing \ before " inside the license string. 10:25:33 pjb: Yep, worked. awesome. Thank you VERY much 10:26:30 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:28:05 pjb: lisp is on the top ;) 10:28:40 pjb: oh, sorry, wasn't paying attention to IRC. 10:28:41 In that case, either implementation will do. 10:28:57 hitecnologys: no problem we expect some backlog reading :-) 10:30:27 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 10:31:25 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has joined #lisp 10:34:13 pjb: it may sound weird, but my sbcl says that they are eq. 10:35:23 MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:35:44 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:36:11 You must evaluate them separately, as toplevel forms. The setf *package* changes the package for reading the next setf. Hence the fail. 10:37:36 (in-package "P1") (setf *package* (find-package "P2") y v) #| y is p1::y |# 10:37:39 (in-package "P1") (setf *package* (find-package "P2")) (setf y v) #| y is p2::y |# 10:37:47 Amandamb [~Amandamb@host6-155-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 10:37:49 ciao 10:37:53 server irc.oceanirc.net 10:38:00 -!- Amandamb [~Amandamb@host6-155-dynamic.7-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Client Quit] 10:38:16 -!- platypine [platypine@unaffiliated/doritos] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:39:25 pjb: aha, now I get what is expected. 10:42:50 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:44:16 -!- hiroaki [~hiroaki@p548321E9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:48:03 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:49:34 Xeexao [~other@188.162.65.85] has joined #lisp 10:49:55 Hello, is it okay to use equalp to compare structs? 10:50:52 beach: will do 10:50:52 mathrick__, memo from beach: The buffer editing and the buffer update protocols are completely implemented now. It worked out as planned. 10:50:52 mathrick__, memo from beach: The description of the buffer protocols in the documentation is now fairly complete if you want to have a look. 10:51:31 Just not sure because equalp seems to be weakest equality function out there, sorry if i'm talking nonsense just starting with lisp. 10:52:03 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 10:53:09 mathrick__: Hi. I will change the implementation of lines in the buffer protocol, but the protocol will not change. 10:53:50 mathrick__: I over-engineered it because I thought we might need a large number of cursors per line. Now I am convinced that this will not be the case. 10:54:06 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 10:54:58 Xeexao: it's always ok to use any function on any data. Now whether the result is what you expected or not, is a different question. 10:55:07 Xeexao: what do you want? 10:55:35 (+ 1 "deux") is all right. If you want to get an error signaled. 10:55:51 clhs equalp 10:55:52 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_equalp.htm 10:57:53 pjb: Just want to compare two point(x y) structs. 11:00:32 beach: will get back to you after I reconnect to the hopefully fixed wifi, hang on 11:00:41 Sure. 11:01:00 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 11:01:15 Xeexao: How do you consider #S(point :x 0 :y 0) and #S(point :x 0.0 :y 0.0) ? 11:01:34 -!- mathrick_ is now known as mathrick 11:01:44 beach: what is a "large number"? 11:02:04 mathrick: tens. 11:02:12 pjb: Point can't have floating point values for fields. 11:02:14 we can have that 11:02:20 mathrick: but now I think, roughly 1 :) 11:02:29 pjb: (defstruct point (x 0 :type integer) (y 0 :type integer)) 11:02:36 roughly 1 is the common case, yes, but it's not hard to reach ten 11:02:50 I've had on the order of 5-10 before 11:02:51 Xeexao: so I guess you'll be happy to compare them numbers with =, which is what equalp does. 11:02:58 mathrick: Well, my idea now is to represent syntax information elsewhere, so that information won't take up any cursors. 11:03:15 pjb: thank you 11:03:47 mathrick: And 5-10 won't be a problem. 11:03:49 beach: but we need to support multiple actual cursors, and 10 is not a big number. If it were hundreds, then yes, probably unlikely. But 10 cursors I can reach by editing a github comment 11:03:59 Xeexao: Notice that if there was strings in those structures, equalp would compare them case insensitively. You have to study each case. 11:04:16 beach: but lemme re-read what you changed 11:04:34 mathrick: This change is not in the documentation. 11:04:38 oh 11:04:45 -!- mathrick__ [~mathrick@94.144.63.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:04:54 hmm, 32 new revs 11:05:00 *mathrick* reads the log 11:05:07 fiveop [~fiveop@p54AF47FB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:05:40 mathrick: I just realized what I needed to do about an hour ago. I haven't put it in the code yet either. 11:05:49 mathrick: Just concentrate on the protocol itself. 11:06:01 ... which will not change. 11:06:07 beach: is the updated protocol described in the docs then or not? 11:06:10 I'm confused 11:06:39 mathrick: OK, let me say this again: the modification I suggest is to the IMPLEMENTATION of lines, not to the PROTOCOL. 11:07:15 mathrick: The only thing you will see is an order of magnitude (or more) speedup after I finish the modification. :) 11:07:23 beach: yes, I get that, but the changes to the protocol you did between the initial commit and today, are those in the docs? 11:07:43 mathrick: Yes, the protocol as described is now pretty complete. 11:08:10 ok, then I'll read that first 11:08:17 pjb: thanks for tip 11:08:32 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.223.179] has joined #lisp 11:09:03 I read the google coding style guide for common lisp. In it I found the statement "Accessors named -of should not be used." without further explanation. Why would you not name your accessors this way? It does make code nice to read (e.g. (host-of address)) 11:10:02 fiveop: I don't know why he wrote that, but I personally prefer (host address) to (host-of address). 11:11:02 fiveop: no reason and it's one of the better naming styles 11:11:29 are accessors generic methods under the hood? 11:11:42 what I'd definitely advise against is -, because it makes sure your class hierarchy leaks into the code, which is just stupid 11:11:45 fiveop: yes 11:11:52 k 11:11:58 jk121960 [~jk121960@108-89-22-112.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:12:00 thank you 11:12:28 fiveop: my own favourite is to name the slot %SLOT, and the accessor function SLOT 11:13:02 %SLOT is intentionally mangling the name to make sure you can't brainfart and use WITH-SLOTS somewhere where you didn't mean to 11:13:26 slots are an implementation detail and should be named to reflect that 11:14:33 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 11:14:49 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:15:14 sounds reasonable 11:15:14 lyanchih [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 11:17:38 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:18:49 -!- killmaster [killmaster@89.181.158.79] has quit [Changing host] 11:18:49 killmaster [killmaster@unaffiliated/killmaster/x-109233] has joined #lisp 11:24:16 -!- scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:26:18 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 11:29:04 nydel [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-rfzumphkbjkoarrh] has joined #lisp 11:32:31 LISP 11:32:49 -!- sellout- [~Adium@97-118-101-232.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:32:55 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #lisp 11:33:01    11:33:08 -!- Xeexao [~other@188.162.65.85] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:40:04 fiveop: for the same reason in maths, sin is named sin and not sin-of, and  is named  and not -of. 11:40:17 namtsui [~user@c-76-21-124-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:45:20 hi beach :) 11:46:08 Hello fe[nl]ix. 11:49:49 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 11:52:56 mathrick: Having told you all that, I should also mention that the buffer protocol is (almost) fully implemented, that I have an Emacs-compatible layer on top of it (that makes newlines look like ordinary characters), and that I am now contemplating the package structure and what to do about views, modes, and syntax modules. 11:55:16 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 11:56:11 is there a reason why linedit takes up so much memory on sbcl? 11:59:52 also, is it recommended to load (ql) packages (and ql itself) in the impl init file or at the top of each file? 12:02:53 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has joined #lisp 12:03:39 in the init file 12:06:50 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:08:28 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:12:18 |JRG|` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-34-147-12.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 12:12:33 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-51-17.w109-223.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 12:13:46 beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-51-17.w109-223.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:15:43 -!- |JRG| [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-34-151-82.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:20:39 shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-euogpeybpflomcts] has joined #lisp 12:20:53 segv- [~mb@95-91-240-237-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 12:21:43 -!- francis_wolke [~user@c-98-207-155-161.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:22:39 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:23:51 scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 12:35:29 przl [~przlrkt@193.158.80.42] has joined #lisp 12:35:43 -!- przl [~przlrkt@193.158.80.42] has quit [Client Quit] 12:35:54 przl [~przlrkt@193.158.80.42] has joined #lisp 12:37:08 -!- echo-area [~user@111.196.4.9] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:38:02 kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-87-78-48-177.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:42:28 -!- przl [~przlrkt@193.158.80.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:46:35 -!- nydel [nydel@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-rfzumphkbjkoarrh] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:48:07 chr [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 12:51:19 -!- chr [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:51:35 chr [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 12:51:51 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.223.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:04:13 fe[nl]ix: what is the correct way of choosing right backlog value for server socket in iolib? Is there any recommendations about this? 13:04:20 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has joined #lisp 13:05:02 Are there* 13:07:15 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:08:16 gko_ [gko@114-32-172-194.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:15 Ambit [~chatzilla@c-50-161-33-61.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:14:30 davazp [~user@31.200.164.120] has joined #lisp 13:14:39 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:16:07 Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5DD9CD34.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 13:17:30 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 13:27:38 lyanchih [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:34 hitecnologys: stick with the default 13:29:17 Hints are rarely honoured for that, in any case. 13:29:58 Do I need permissions to copy text from a CLHS page, apply own typesetting and publish it in a magazine? 13:30:28 (I mean, have the permission been granted already?) 13:31:23 -!- strobegen [~Adium@188.168.72.236] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:31:28 dtw: I don't think that is allowed. 13:32:01 dtw: You would need permission both from ANSI and Lispworks. 13:32:27 LispWorks owns the copyright of the HTML form. 13:32:33 yes. 13:32:59 And I'm not copying any of that, just the textual content. 13:33:05 dtw: And ANSI is the copyright holder of the text. 13:33:14 See the appropiate fair use legislature. 13:33:38 Oh, you could put a quotation in your own text. 13:33:52 As long as you clearly state the source. 13:34:25 LiamH [~user@pool-173-73-122-143.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:34:33 No permission required. 13:35:29 Oh, yes. The quotation right would apply here. Just a small piece. 13:35:45 Assuming that it complies with the appropriate fair use legislature. 13:35:55 Indeed. 13:36:15 That will determine how and what you may quote -- so have a quick look at it for wherever you plan on being prosecuted. 13:36:21 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:40:04 beach: sorry, my sister called 13:40:11 *mathrick* gets to reading 13:40:20 fe[nl]ix: OK, thanks. 13:40:57 mathrick: No problem. I just wanted to let you know how far along I am. 13:47:13 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:50:54 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 13:54:36 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.223.179] has joined #lisp 13:55:13 -!- pegu`` [~user@c7F7CBF51.dhcp.as2116.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:58:50 -!- davazp [~user@31.200.164.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:01:07 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has joined #lisp 14:09:15 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:01 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:11:28 przl [~przlrkt@193.158.80.42] has joined #lisp 14:14:25 hiroaki [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 14:19:27 beach: syntax will need some thinking, because there's so much it needs to be able to do. Incremental parsing supporting backoff at the very least, obviously parsing of invalid trees, and I'd really like to be able to support nested parsing (think of any HTML templating language, or any other embedded syntax) 14:20:34 mathrick: yes, I know. I am thinking very hard about it right now. :) 14:20:55 parsers need to be baked into it from the beginning, and it needs to do what anyone might want it to do, or else people reinvent stuff :( 14:21:34 I know. 14:21:45 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.3.85] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 14:21:54 That is why I am thinking hard about it. 14:21:57 an open question is whether it's worth it to have indenting as a part of the parser infrastructure 14:22:14 from what I heard, the overlap of what you need the parser and indenter to do is relatively small 14:22:37 but it might be easier if they're written from the beginning to support both modes and make adding new parsers easy 14:22:39 I think it could be part of the parser for some syntax modules at least. 14:22:49 aye 14:23:10 at least the rough structure like "last open list" should be useful for indenters 14:23:32 A possible strategy for CL would be to do the equivalent of pretty print and compare to what you have. 14:23:47 even if they hack around for the precise location on the line say, they should still be able to find the last relevant anchor point reliably and without regexes 14:23:51 Don't know if it is feasible though. 14:24:13 beach: it's probably very complex down the road and hard to customise I suspect 14:24:21 but it'll need trying out 14:24:36 kaygun_ [~kaygun@78.180.237.103] has joined #lisp 14:24:51 beach: ah, right, parsers also need to be pluggable in the sense of being able to hook up to an external source of information (for Java and C#) 14:25:02 like there's NRefactory / OmniSharp for C# 14:25:04 Let me continue the work I am currently doing. When I have a demo, you can tell me what you think. 14:25:08 yep 14:25:38 I'm basically just throwing things which will need actual attention at some point out there 14:25:52 yes, you are right. 14:26:08 I'll keep it in mind. 14:29:30 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 14:29:37 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5DD9CD34.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:31:31 beach: more thinking out loud: for nested parsers, it's /probably/ better to require explicit glue for any outer/inner grammar pair, just make it easy to write, than to default to trying to guess too much about how they intertwine 14:32:11 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 14:32:13 hi 14:32:18 hello 14:32:42 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:33:04 mathrick: Not exactly sure what that means. Usually when there are several languages involved there is already a marker in one language to mark a part in the other. 14:33:11 in an industrial sense ( :) ) i wanna bump grind your lisp 14:33:28 -!- TrystamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-19.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Changing host] 14:33:28 TrystamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 14:33:32 [ :) ] 14:33:41 oh yeah 14:34:26 -!- TrystamWrk is now known as TristamWrk 14:34:34 beach: I mean you'd need to write an explicit HTML+PHP mode, rather than having some kind of universal "multi mode" which you just tell to mix HTML with PHP 14:34:54 and yeah, the markers are there, but they're of two types 14:35:01 mathrick: Yeah, sure. Otherwise the number of combinations would explode. 14:36:10 -!- joe9 [~user@ip70-179-153-227.fv.ks.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:36:19 Usually, parser are top-down. Grammar rules are selected from the outside context. For an editor, you want to apply rules bottom up. a=3*b; <-- a C rule; a:=3*; <-- a Pascal rule; (setf a (* 3 b)) <-- a lisp rule. (a = (3 * b)) <-- a Ruby rule. 14:36:30 either the embedded expressions need to be complete (Razor's CSHTML works that way), or you can have partial expressions in one language contain partial expressions in the other (HTML+PHP lets you switch between languages at any point, and most template engines also do something similar) 14:37:14 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:37:16 pjb: yeah, but a meta-parser will need to be written to marry any two (or more) language combination 14:38:22 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-21-124-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:38:29 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:38:31 -!- Munksgaard [~philip@80-71-132-106.u.parknet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:38:54 yes. 14:39:16 -!- przl [~przlrkt@193.158.80.42] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:39:53 You could have rules to transform automatically from one syntax to another. You type a=3*b; and you get inserted (setf a (* 3 b)) ; or vice versa. 14:41:34 beach: re: update protocol, a syntax update might get triggered on buffers that have no views I think. I'm not sure if it should actually be tied to climacs's "syntax", but consider Query Replace In Multiple Buffers, which changes a signature of a function and changes the validity of a line referring to that function in the current buffer 14:47:25 przl [~przlrkt@193.158.80.42] has joined #lisp 14:48:37 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:50:31 OK, I'll be back in a few minutes. I'll answer then. 14:50:33 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-51-17.w109-223.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:52:11 flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has joined #lisp 14:52:48 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-138-104.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:55:30 -!- Code_Man` [~Code_Man@231-141.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:55:39 zeebrah [~zeebrah@unaffiliated/zeebrah] has joined #lisp 14:57:39 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 14:59:59 -!- hiroaki [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:00:32 gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:22 -!- flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:03:03 joe9 [~user@ip70-179-153-227.fv.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:06 beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-51-17.w109-223.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:03:28 -!- scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:03:34 minion: note for beach: http://paste.lisp.org/display/139844 <-- how does the buffer protocol deal with items whose correspondence to "lines" is unclear, such as inline images? Or is that left to views entirely to have an idea what display lines correspond to in terms of buffer lines? 15:03:34 Remembered. I'll tell beach when he/she/it next speaks. 15:03:48 I am here now. 15:03:48 beach, memo from mathrick: http://paste.lisp.org/display/139844 <-- how does the buffer protocol deal with items whose correspondence to "lines" is unclear, such as inline images? Or is that left to views entirely to have an idea what display lines correspond to in terms of buffer lines? 15:04:10 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-147-235.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:04:45 -!- Ambit [~chatzilla@c-50-161-33-61.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:04:46 Ambit_ [~chatzilla@c-50-161-33-61.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:47 -!- Ambit_ is now known as Ambit 15:05:24 mathrick: To the buffer protocol, lines are just a convenient way of breaking up the text into manageable chunks. It doesn't do any sort of interpretation. 15:06:12 right 15:07:38 mathrick: With respect to buffers without views, you should not think of a "view" as being the same as "something visible". It is entirely feasible to create a view whenever a buffer needs to be accessed. For instance, the cursor is "owned" by the view. 15:07:52 beach: so internally, the image would be anchored as an item on one particular line, and it's the views that size it appropriately, flow the text around, handle cursor motion from the wrapped lines, etc.? 15:07:58 beach: ah 15:08:41 mathrick: With the ascii art in your example, to the buffer protocol, there is no image at all; only dashes and vertical bars. 15:09:10 beach: the ascii art was supposed to represent a real image 15:09:15 something.png 15:09:18 Oh, sorry. 15:09:29 Then yes, the image would be one item in the buffer. 15:10:07 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-184-50.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:10:36 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-157-233.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:11:30 pjb: With respect to parsers. You say "usually parsers are top-down". That depends indeed. Most widely-used parsers are probably of type LR which is bottom-up, except that the state is transmitted top-down. 15:11:32 beach: re: views, I was referring to "At the end of the execution of the command, all visible views are updated. If any visible view displays a buffer that was modified in the first step, the syntax update is executed for that buffer" 15:12:03 mathrick: Right, notice "visible" view. 15:12:20 malbertife [~malbertif@host252-19-dynamic.116-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:12:39 mathrick: It would be possible to trigger syntax update "manually" for views that are not visible. 15:13:16 dcguru [~chatzilla@66.129.60.130] has joined #lisp 15:14:40 pjb: Luckily, most languages can be parsed bottom-up this way. It has the advantage that you can store the explicit parser state in the buffer and compare to what it needs to be next time around. If they are the same, just use whatever was parsed last time. 15:15:36 beach: yeah, I was just thinking whether "visible view" is the right criterion. A command like Query Replace In Multiple Buffers has no way of knowing whether it did something significant to the syntax, so it could do no better than either "do nothing" or "always force an update manually" 15:15:52 pjb: The only think one must think about is look-ahead. Incremental parsing does not lend itself to look-ahead, so it is better to have a GLR parser based on LR(0) items and handle non-determinism. 15:17:01 mathrick: The way I designed it, the damage done to the syntax as a result of buffer operation should be repaired incrementally as much as possible. 15:17:22 mathrick: No operation on the buffer should have to take into account even the existence of a syntax module. 15:17:37 beach: I'm not that great with parsers right now, but one worthwhile thing it seems would be to have some sort of hysteresis in the incremental parser. Ie. don't just reparse things that changed, but also recover from invalid syntax differently depending on what the *previous* parse was 15:18:09 mathrick: However, some operations might REQUIRE the use of an up-to-date syntax. Those modules would then have to trigger the update "manually" so that they are sure that it corresponds to the buffer contents. 15:18:27 beach: in that case, it might be better to say simply that syntax update happens always 15:18:46 mathrick: I never said that only things that changed would be reparsed. 15:19:04 but yeah, if we can build a sufficiently expressive dependency chain into it, that could also work 15:19:15 That is not possible in general, because what follows can be influenced by the parse. And what precedes it as well sometimes. 15:19:31 what are you referring to now? 15:19:43 Sorry, 15:19:49 ggole [~ggole@124-169-124-60.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 15:19:56 I mean, it is not possible in general to reparse only modified parts of the buffer. 15:20:25 Furthermore, the incremental update is taken care of automatically. 15:20:42 Client code just says "update the syntax for this buffer" 15:20:57 And the syntax module does it incrementally whenever possible. 15:21:14 yes, of course, I know that "incremental reparse" might degenerate to "reparse everything" 15:21:28 mathrick: If the language requires that, yes. 15:21:37 mathrick: But, in general no. 15:21:43 mathrick: take the example of an LR parser. 15:21:59 mathrick: You would recover the parser state at the first modified place, and start parsing there. 15:22:01 I was just saying that it might be sensible to say "a reparse happens after every change", rather than "after every change in visible views" 15:22:21 Then at the end of the modified place, if the parser is in the same state as last time, skip the rest. 15:22:33 right 15:22:43 mathrick: That would be very unreasonable indeed. 15:23:03 mathrick: Because then if you do (say) C-y to yank a big region, 15:23:23 after each character inserted, you would have to redo the parsing. 15:23:32 mathrick: This is why there are two protocols. 15:24:24 mathrick: parsing is done at the frequency of the event loop. 15:24:25 I mean "logical" change. The only thing I'm saying is remove the phrase "in visible views" 15:24:31 unless you request it explicitly. 15:24:51 maxxe [~maxxe@unaffiliated/maxxe] has joined #lisp 15:25:06 mathrick: You would have a very hard time to define "logical change" other than, "whatever happened between two events" 15:25:48 beach: okay, let me rephrase that. Chapter 2, page 8, item 2: 15:26:01 change "all visible views" to "all views" 15:26:15 -!- przl [~przlrkt@193.158.80.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:26:23 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:26:27 I don't see why. 15:26:59 If the view is not visible, there is no particular point in updating it at the frequency of an event. 15:27:25 perhaps, I'm not sure if that kind of decision should actually ride on the Climacs's syntax. But if we let it do things like check validity of code (ie. flymake-like thing), invisible buffers can also matter for the visible ones 15:27:28 And it might be required to be updated between two events. So there must be a mechanism to update it manually anyway. 15:27:39 -!- kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-87-78-48-177.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:28:00 If an invisible buffer matters, you must update the syntax manually anyway. 15:28:14 Because you might have a loop with no events, and in the middle you need the syntax to be updated. 15:28:50 kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-78-35-238-103.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:29:08 In other words, there is no reason to believe that updating invisible views would solve any problem. 15:29:32 -!- paddymahoney [~paddymaho@24.137.221.230] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:30:17 pjb: However, Common Lisp doesn't lend itself to a bottom-up parser, because the standard requires it to be top-down. 15:30:33 pjb: But I think I have a workable solution for this problem. 15:31:08 przl [~przlrkt@193.158.80.42] has joined #lisp 15:33:20 mathrick: you are a fast typist. Hard to keep up. 15:34:03 beach: okay, lemme show you a scenario. I have a visible buffer with "some.foo", highlighted as error, because there's no "some.foo" defined. There is "other.foo" however in buffer X. I do M-x Replace In All Buffers "namespace other"  "namespace some". Now my visible buffer won't know it should request a syntax update on X, because before the command, X contained "namespace other", which it didn't depend on. After the change however, it's actually "nam 15:34:03 espace some", which brings it into the dependency chain 15:34:07 beach: sorry 15:35:04 -!- zeebrah [~zeebrah@unaffiliated/zeebrah] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:36:17 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@p54AF47FB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: humhum] 15:36:29 mathrick: I think whenever a command requests information from the syntax (which is not typical) as opposed to just from the buffer contents, it should start by doing a make-sure-syntax-is-up-to-date. 15:36:56 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:43 mathrick: The logical conclusion of what you are suggesting is to update the syntax for each buffer modification, and that is not practical from a performance point of view. 15:38:25 beach: update on event loop spin after update, regardless of whether the buffer is visible 15:38:30 -!- gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gendl] 15:38:37 mathrick: Not enough. 15:38:43 beach: the question is, is there actually any gain to be expected from restricting it to visible buffers? Most commands only ever operate on visible buffers anyway, so for them it doesn't matter 15:38:50 -!- ``Erik_ is now known as ``Erik 15:39:08 mathrick: Consider a loop in which you do your query-replace, wait for a while and then do something else. No event came in so nothing is updated. 15:39:09 and for the rest, it's saner for other code to have syntax in all changed buffers update 15:40:31 Well, if the operation to detect that nothing has changed is fast, and there are not too many buffers, then one could update the non visible buffers as well. 15:40:50 But it won't solve your problem. 15:40:57 gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:06 Because there might be situations where there is no event to trigger the modificaton. 15:41:09 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-147-235.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:41:10 modification. 15:41:15 Like when you do it in a loop. 15:41:21 beach: according to #2, there will be update after the execution of the command already. It will just be restricted to buffers with visible views only. All I'm saying is keep it that way, because it's the natural frequency for most consumers of syntax already, just lift the restriction that only visible buffers get their syntax updated 15:41:33 Consider a loop that inserts a character in a buffer every minute. 15:42:20 mathrick: OK, will do. 15:43:08 ln` [~ln@84.233.246.170] has joined #lisp 15:44:03 guyal [~anonymous@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:28 francis_wolke [~user@c-98-207-155-161.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:30 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:45:50 gendl_ [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:39 -!- gendl_ [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:46:39 beach: btw, having potentially view-less buffers is nice, as that lets the parser open files like C headers and request a parse without polluting the buffer list in the UI, as it happens in GNU Emacs 15:47:25 gendl_ [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:47:30 so I like that part 15:48:03 mathrick: Done. See how you like the new phrasing. 15:48:37 mathrick: Yeah, that's an advantage. 15:49:31 mathrick: FIY: buffers that start with a space are not included in the buffer list 15:49:49 -!- ln` [~ln@84.233.246.170] has left #lisp 15:49:51 stassats: ah yes, there was something like that 15:49:57 but it's an ugly hack really 15:50:56 Under normal circumstances I would apologize for taking up so much of the bandwidth of #lisp, but it is so quiet here these days that I think some action can't hurt. 15:50:58 with-temp-buffer will do that for you 15:51:43 pjb: Do you have some interesting insight about incremental parsing? 15:53:37 beach: hmm, I just realised that reparse might need several passes. Since the dependency structure might've changed since the last parse, buffers (including ones that didn't change) might actually depend for their parse on other buffers which haven't yet finished reparsing. So really it should loop until no buffers report any changes discovered 15:54:28 -!- cnl [~pony@bitdiddle.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:54:43 I'll deal with that problem when it comes up. 15:55:09 -!- przl [~przlrkt@193.158.80.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:55:24 cnl [~pony@bitdiddle.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:37 beach: it's just an extension of my observation about visible views. Same problem really, you might be depending on another buffer without realising you do 15:55:58 -!- gendl_ [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gendl_] 15:56:09 it totally can be done as a coroutine/thread yielding control to the UI when an event comes, btw 15:56:27 k0001 [~k0001@host138.190-136-199.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 15:56:45 that's pretty much how all IDEs operate by necessity. There might pass a second or two before they catch up with changes 15:57:53 I see. 16:00:54 beach: sorry about being so picky, but that's the hard part I mentioned. If we don't get it right, people will work around our parsers, which is bad 16:01:23 mathrick: Yes, I agree. 16:01:27 at least everyone else struggles with it, so we're not alone :) 16:03:04 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has left #lisp 16:03:21 -!- cpape``` [~user@cpape.eu] has left #lisp 16:03:37 cpape``` [~user@cpape.eu] has joined #lisp 16:03:38 oh, and the revised wording is fine, forgot to add, aside from the "loop until no more syntax changes are reported". If you could add that as a TODO, as I don't feel I understand the issues enough yet to propose a wording 16:04:29 I'll add it as a FIXME footnote. 16:05:13 thanks 16:08:05 sellout- [~Adium@97-118-164-167.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:10:38 Done. 16:10:59 -!- kaygun_ [~kaygun@78.180.237.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:11:50 ln` [~ln@84.233.246.170] has joined #lisp 16:14:20 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@220-134-193-4.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 16:15:21 -!- guyal [~anonymous@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: The Sleeper has Asleepen] 16:15:48 beach: very sensible 16:16:13 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 16:16:40 Like you, I don't feel I fully understand the issues yet. 16:17:16 -!- effy_ [~quassel@123.116.59.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:17:43 effy [~quassel@114.246.95.59] has joined #lisp 16:17:47 don't comment bad code. rewrite it. 16:18:45 maxxe: +1 16:18:49 :) 16:19:01 maxxe: (+1 *) 16:20:09 -!- gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gendl] 16:20:16 beach: to go back to the incremental reparse itself, are you aware of any UI-oriented algorithms which can take the last know parse's results into account for error recovery in the current one? There are many situations in which, say, deleting a ; results in a nonsensical parse, but it's very obvious how to recover if you know what the parse was like before the change 16:21:01 przl [~przlrkt@193.158.80.42] has joined #lisp 16:21:18 mathrick: I am not aware of any such algorithms. It would be an interesting research topic though. 16:21:45 -!- malbertife [~malbertif@host252-19-dynamic.116-80-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:21:46 indeed 16:22:11 mathrick: Even without taking the previous parse into account, error recovery is a black art. 16:22:33 it is! 16:22:46 I know woefully little about parsers :( 16:23:04 guess I should have ample opportunity to improve 16:23:09 davazp [~user@92.251.128.75.threembb.ie] has joined #lisp 16:23:25 mathrick: Though when I spent a year in Kiwiland, one colleague had an idea for error recovery in LR-type parsers. I tried to get him to write it down and publish it, but he refused. 16:23:52 I know enough of his idea though to be able to implement it one day. 16:24:06 huh, that's odd 16:24:28 What is? 16:25:18 effy_ [~quassel@222.129.233.179] has joined #lisp 16:25:36 -!- effy [~quassel@114.246.95.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:25:48 beach: that he refused to write it down 16:26:01 beach: "CURRENT-TIME  Return the current time of the buffer, and then increment it." <-- why increment? 16:26:29 mathrick: He was close to retirement, so he figured there was no point. 16:26:38 tmokros [~tmokros@ip24-252-153-210.cl.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:56 mathrick: Otherwise two modifications would get the same time, which is not what we want. 16:27:27 mathrick: It is simpler to always increment it, so that you are sure that there are no ambiguities as to the order in which things occurred. 16:27:49 -!- przl [~przlrkt@193.158.80.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:28:12 mathrick: By the way, time stamps make it unnecessary for buffers to be aware of its associated views. 16:28:23 beach: it's still odd that reading the buffer's update time should change it, and I'm not sure if that couldn't confuse some things as to whether things have changed elsewhere 16:28:49 mathrick: Think of it as a clock that is always ticking. 16:29:01 hmm 16:29:05 Code_Man` [~Code_Man@231-141.5-85.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 16:29:06 mathrick: Except that we don't make it tick when nobody is watching. 16:29:23 thelorax123 [~nodebot@162-204-145-159.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:30 mathrick: It is not "the buffers' update time" 16:29:37 mathrick: It is just a clock. 16:29:44 It is just easier to make it per-buffer. 16:29:51 I guess 16:29:59 It could just as easily be made application-wide. 16:30:10 Or we could use the internal time. 16:30:20 With 64-bits it would not be a problem. 16:30:21 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:30:34 effy [~quassel@222.129.238.7] has joined #lisp 16:30:35 -!- maxxe [~maxxe@unaffiliated/maxxe] has left #lisp 16:30:37 -!- effy_ [~quassel@222.129.233.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 16:31:00 mathrick: The absolute value of the time stamp is not important. 16:31:08 right 16:31:13 mathrick: It is only used to determine what thing happened before what other thing. 16:32:06 mathrick: I kick myself for not remembering this technique more often. 16:34:15 przl [~przlrkt@193.158.80.42] has joined #lisp 16:36:10 platypine [platypine@unaffiliated/doritos] has joined #lisp 16:36:10 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:36:34 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:39 beach: that technique being keeping a ticking clock? 16:36:50 -!- thelorax123 [~nodebot@162-204-145-159.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:36:55 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 16:37:00 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:05 Using time stamps instead of complicated things like "observer" patterns. 16:37:21 [or whatever that pattern is called now again] 16:38:03 thelorax123 [~nodebot@162-204-145-159.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:09 -!- thelorax123 [~nodebot@162-204-145-159.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:40:15 -!- platypine [platypine@unaffiliated/doritos] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:40:49 beach: out of curiosity, can you copy things from the generated PDF? I end up with garbage: rrtt 16:40:58 (that's "current-time") 16:41:22 You mean using the mouse? 16:41:52 -!- cnl [~pony@bitdiddle.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:42:14 Using `evince' I do get garbage. 16:42:20 yes 16:42:35 And xpdf does not seem to work on Ubuntu Linux anymore :( 16:42:47 cnl [~pony@bitdiddle.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:55 Do you have a working xpdf? 16:43:06 -!- davazp [~user@92.251.128.75.threembb.ie] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:43:34 nope, maybe I can get it from the repo 16:44:16 There are many things about evince that I don't like, but since xpdf is not working, I don't know that I have a choice. 16:44:38 Now who was working recently on extracting text from PDF? 16:45:03 beach: I'm using "atril", which is a fork of evince by MATE (since GNOME went insane and so did all their apps) 16:45:11 but it's for practical purposes an older evince 16:45:12 -!- chr [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:45:30 mathrick: And it has problems too? 16:45:42 yes, it was copied from atril 16:45:44 beach: pdftotext works for me 16:45:50 b80905 [~user@ppp92-100-65-252.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 16:45:53 jasom: How is that PDF text extractor of yours working? 16:46:10 beach: nope, xpdf segfaults here as well 16:46:18 mathrick: Yeah :( 16:46:25 LiamH: So the problem seems to be with evince/atril. 16:46:39 it seems it fails with XLFD lookup 16:46:40 when i do 16:47:22 when i do (load "sicp.lisp") my lisp interpreter says "dyn:link: ./sicp.lisp: invalid ELF header" 16:47:25 Joreji [~thomas@184-080.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 16:48:09 thelorax123 [~nodebot@162-204-145-159.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:48:51 b80905: I am no expert, but it sounds like your "lisp interpreter" wants a binary ELF file, and you are feeding it source code. 16:49:41 beach: well, sicp.lisp is a plain text file 16:49:57 Yes, with the .lisp extension, I would assume so. 16:50:28 -!- dcguru [~chatzilla@66.129.60.130] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 23.0.1/20130902133717]] 16:50:43 beach: https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xpdf/+bug/943195 <-- uhhhh 16:50:48 b80905: But from the error message, it looks like your "lisp interpreter" is expecting something else; something with an ELF header, so an executable, object code, or perhaps a .so module. 16:50:56 -!- thelorax123 [~nodebot@162-204-145-159.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:51:56 thelorax123 [~nodebot@162-204-145-159.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:17 mathrick: Greek to me, but perhaps there is hope for the new Ubuntu release then. 16:53:13 yeah, I dunno how to interpret it either 16:53:16 -!- thelorax123 [~nodebot@162-204-145-159.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:53:21 I think we should encourage jasom to do a complete PDF library and why not a document viewer too. 16:53:40 -!- b80905 [~user@ppp92-100-65-252.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:54:51 thelorax123 [~nodebot@162-204-145-159.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:54 I *almost* stated doing it a few months ago. :) 16:55:07 b80905 [~user@ppp92-100-65-252.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 16:55:21 sometimes i use okular for viewing pdfs. 16:55:26 beach: changing the extension to .scm did the trick 16:55:38 b80905: Hmm, I see. 16:55:42 Good for you. 16:55:57 beach: i forgot to mention that i was using a scheme interpreter 16:56:00 ... 16:56:06 b80905: Indeed :) 16:57:02 prxq: Thanks! I might try and see whether I like it more than evince. 16:57:24 gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:57:39 -!- b80905 [~user@ppp92-100-65-252.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has left #lisp 16:58:45 -!- francis_wolke [~user@c-98-207-155-161.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:59:13 scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 16:59:43 -!- thelorax123 [~nodebot@162-204-145-159.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:00:57 thelorax123 [~nodebot@162-204-145-159.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:22 a new PDF viewer written in CL would be great. :-) 17:02:35 yes, that's what I think too. 17:02:45 -!- thelorax123 [~nodebot@162-204-145-159.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:17 -!- gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gendl] 17:04:18 antonv [5d7d2a42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.66] has joined #lisp 17:04:55 thelorax123 [~nodebot@162-204-145-159.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:08 gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:25 francis_wolke [~user@c-98-207-155-161.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:34 -!- gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:09:21 gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:47 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-147-235.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:09:57 Joreji_ [~thomas@184-080.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:10:56 -!- gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:12:57 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@5.22.135.157] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 17:13:16 gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:14:11 -!- mordocai [44bbf2a5@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.187.242.165] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:17:40 -!- gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:18:56 -!- przl [~przlrkt@193.158.80.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:19:32 cheryllium [~chatzilla@128.237.137.12] has joined #lisp 17:19:51 could someone please help me install commonqt on windows 8? 17:21:48 I'm mostly confused about the smoke library on windows 17:22:15 there used to be some prebuilt binaries for windows 17:22:34 that significantly short-cutted the whole thing 17:22:48 Davidbrcz [~david@88.115.137.88.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:51 yeah, but I can't find them anywhere 17:22:57 do I need to build smoke myself? 17:23:18 hmm. You might have to 17:23:27 I haven't exactly worked with that, so I can't help you 17:23:29 afk 17:23:31 I'm not very familiar with what smoke is, actually, or how to build it... I'm on windows 8 :/ 17:23:43 darn it 17:25:42 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 17:26:32 normanrichards [~textual@mobile-166-147-064-087.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:23 -!- thelorax123 [~nodebot@162-204-145-159.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:34:26 gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:42 -!- cheryllium [~chatzilla@128.237.137.12] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 25.0/20131025151332]] 17:37:19 ykm [~ykm@182.237.171.103] has joined #lisp 17:37:46 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #lisp 17:38:12 -!- |JRG|` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-34-147-12.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:38:17 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 17:39:32 cory786 [~cory@adsl-75-22-101-128.dsl.bumttx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:17 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:45:20 thelorax123 [~nodebot@162-204-145-159.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:34 marzipankaiser [~androirc@HSI-KBW-046-005-254-111.hsi8.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 17:47:22 -!- ggole [~ggole@124-169-124-60.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 17:47:30 przl [~przlrkt@p579235F0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:48:02 -!- gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gendl] 17:49:26 -!- shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-euogpeybpflomcts] has quit [Quit: shridhar] 17:50:00 -!- ln` [~ln@84.233.246.170] has left #lisp 17:50:37 nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 17:50:42 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Quit: My MacBook has gone to sleep. 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18:47:44 postgres was originally CL iirc 18:48:07 yes it was 18:48:09 creator of clojure, which he used to write a database called datomic. 18:48:13 and that answer is just "databases are hard and we don't know how" 18:48:15 francogrex: the answers you get depend on the questions you ask 18:48:31 -!- Guest97484 [~entity@c-50-136-180-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:48:38 But not an SQL database 18:48:55 oGMo: I think the answer is: not enough time and resources 18:49:32 francogrex: that's part of it 18:50:40 thelorax123 [~nodebot@162-204-145-159.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:55 gabnet [~user@ACaen-652-1-274-91.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:51:13 I'll try to work with the python db using cl-python if it works 18:51:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 18:51:52 francogrex: why'd you do that? 18:52:03 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-179-123-167.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:06 for fun 18:52:15 why is using gadfly in a language other than python even useful? 18:52:56 it's not. It's more useful to peek into the src code and steel some to transpose to lisp 18:53:39 -!- thelorax123 [~nodebot@162-204-145-159.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:53:55 probably a terrible idea heh 18:54:54 if you're interested in a sql database it doesn't have to be CL anyway .. the question is are you interested in using a DB or writing DBs? 18:54:54 I bet you it'll be at least 10 times as efficient and easier to write this RDMS in lisp than in python yet some python freak decided to go against all the odds... 18:55:17 oGMo: writing is more interesting 18:55:29 writing for the purpose of using 18:55:57 unlikely to happen 18:56:54 Guest97484 [~entity@c-50-136-180-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:57 -!- gko_ [gko@114-32-172-194.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:02:33 thelorax123 [~nodebot@162-204-145-159.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:50 -!- Codynyx 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[~thisismyu@21.12.11.37.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:15:34 Joreji_ [~thomas@184-080.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 19:16:34 bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 19:16:58 -!- thelorax123 [~nodebot@162-204-145-159.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:17:54 davazp [~user@92.251.128.75.threembb.ie] has joined #lisp 19:19:33 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p579235F0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:20:05 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:21:10 thelorax123 [~nodebot@162-204-145-159.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:49 ustunozgur [~ustunozgu@rrcs-50-74-103-90.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:23:54 -!- thelorax123 [~nodebot@162-204-145-159.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:25:11 I know there's some Lisp DBs, but I don't think any of them are SQL-DBs. 19:26:05 thelorax123 [~nodebot@162-204-145-159.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:27:35 -!- thelorax123 [~nodebot@162-204-145-159.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:28:03 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@5.22.135.157] has joined #lisp 19:28:16 I bet you it'll be at least 10 times as efficient and easier to write this RDMS in lisp than in python yet some python freak decided to go against all the odds... <-- python vs. lisp is insignificant compared to "do I have any idea about writing DBs?" 19:28:30 which, dare I say, I don't think you do 19:30:11 HG` [~HG@185.2.29.197] has joined #lisp 19:30:17 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@5.22.135.157] has quit [Client Quit] 19:31:53 mathrick: you are completely missing the point here 19:32:09 eh 19:32:18 he's pretty much right on 19:32:36 not at all. it's not about me, it's about the lisp community being lacking on resourcefulness 19:32:55 if i were ever worried about not having an idea before doing something, i wouldn't have done a thing 19:32:56 well, writing a database would be a waste of time. 19:33:00 if you knew enough about DBs to write one you 1) wouldn't and 2) wouldn't think language made that kind of difference 19:33:02 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 19:33:33 przl [~przlrkt@p579235F0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:33:34 if you're academically interested in DBs, and want to toy with one, and you know CL well enough you're comfortable writing any given thing in it, you could work on a CL DB 19:33:40 yet some python freak did so it invalidates your pint 19:33:52 It doesn't invalidate any of his points. 19:34:17 it does, use your brain 19:34:17 i'm pretty sure last i checked no one was recommending a python db for production work 19:34:30 francogrex: Anyone can write a shitty DB 19:34:38 or "a db some guy wrote recently" in general 19:34:38 in any language 19:34:40 eh hm 19:34:50 francogrex: don't write anything, just obey 19:35:22 i'm guessing whoever wrote it learned a fair bit about basic DB stuff and SQL, and if that's your interest and CL is your language then go for it 19:36:47 not at all. it's not about me, it's about the lisp community being lacking on resourcefulness <-- lisp community is doing fine, thanks 19:37:55 if lisp community felt the burning urge to write an SQL DB, then lisp community would've done so 19:38:18 there's no lisp community 19:38:24 from a practical point of view it makes more sense to simply write bindings 19:38:25 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p579235F0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:38:25 i'd say more "resources", "interest", and "know-how", but enough knowledge about the subject to know it's probably not a useful endeavor ;) 19:39:31 (not to say there aren't a few who know how, more "pick two") 19:40:06 desophos [~desophos@n163h87.dhcp.oxy.edu] has joined #lisp 19:40:06 -!- desophos [~desophos@n163h87.dhcp.oxy.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 19:40:17 yeah, there are more useful things to do than writing another SQL DB 19:40:37 including things more useful to the "lisp community", as much as it doesn't really exist 19:40:55 eh hm, such as? 19:40:58 francogrex: write a sql database using a sexp-based query and data definition language! 19:41:10 that wouldn't be a sql database :P 19:41:22 sexpified sql. 19:41:28 i've found that sharing things you might work with #lisp is the worst idea 19:41:29 francogrex: writing apps using DBs for example 19:41:34 people write what they need and what interests them 19:41:38 francogrex: a good crossplatform installer 19:41:47 it'll be shut down immediately 19:42:09 pjb: sql is a well-defined standard and if you want "sexp-fied sql" you can already get that with e.g. postmodern heh 19:42:15 sql not really important, it's the rdms 19:42:26 "sexpfied sql database" would be like "algol-ified lisp language" 19:42:33 kaygun_ [~kaygun@78.180.237.103] has joined #lisp 19:42:35 stassats: why? 19:42:45 -!- HG` [~HG@185.2.29.197] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:42:48 francogrex: beats me 19:42:49 francogrex: there's nothing wrong in wanting to learn about DBs by writing. That is fine and how DB developers are made. But turning that into "the whole »lisp community« just lacks resourcefulness" is uncalled for and unnecessary 19:42:59 oGMo: yes, but it's ridiculous to write sexps, have postmodern convert them into SQL, have the DB parse the SQl and convert them into sexps to be run in the database implemented in Lisp (like the original postgres). 19:43:19 stassats: tbh there's nothing in this conversation, afaict, that's saying "francogrex don't do it" 19:43:20 francogrex: probably because complex things often end up in failure, that's why people avoid taking up ambitious projects 19:43:22 Much better just write a db in lisp with a lisp query and data definition language and be done with the intermediate stages. 19:43:32 it's more "if you want it, go do it" 19:43:42 go write code and stop talking about writing code 19:43:51 you'll get a lot more done that way 19:44:03 stassats: reminds me of certain someone arguing against so much as thinking of a lispos in #lisp not long ago :) 19:44:13 hehe 19:44:24 mathrick: i know, i'm guilty of that too, but i was just trying to fend off competition! 19:44:28 heh 19:44:32 stassats++ 19:44:46 -!- gabnet [~user@ACaen-652-1-274-91.w92-154.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:46:36 francogrex: if you really wanted an idea for a problem not yet solved adequately, which is also complex, desireable and inherently about lisp, you can always write a tree shaker for SBCL 19:46:47 Celestia knows I'd use a tree shaker 19:46:55 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:46:57 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-651-1-51-17.w109-223.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:47:02 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has joined #lisp 19:47:08 that's boring 19:47:09 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:47:26 smaller files, what is it, 1999? 19:47:53 I'm still annoyed by the installer for my tiny molecular calculator app being 20MB compressed 19:48:25 (granted, it also has GTK+ inside, but that is like 5MB for the essentials) 19:48:30 pay for lispworks? 19:48:51 Celestia ? 19:49:32 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 19:49:41 francogrex: deity which I'm comfortable invoking and which no-one is likely to mistake for professing an actual religious belief: http://mlp.wikia.com/wiki/Princess_Celestia 19:51:21 kinky 19:51:52 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 19:52:27 stassats: that's one way for sure, but lispworks is not as good at many things, including generating optimised code, so it's not *just* a matter of not wanting to pay 19:54:15 mathrick: ccl? 19:55:05 mathrick: http://jsnell.iki.fi/blog/archive/2005-07-06.html 19:55:24 what's with ccl? 19:55:51 oGMo: ccl is smaller, yes, but still not exactly tiny, and the argument about optimised code applies equally well. It's significantly slower if you do anything resembling number-crunching 19:56:27 fair 19:56:44 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:56:50 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 19:56:52 francogrex: yes, hasn't built or worked with any recent SBCL version for about 7 years now :). But it can be done, which that is a proof of concept of 19:56:52 kaenga [~other@188.162.65.82] has joined #lisp 19:56:54 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has joined #lisp 19:56:55 hi 19:57:10 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:38 oGMo: OTOH, their compiler is delightfully fast. It's actually fun to build CCL on CCL 19:58:07 for the record, I could embed lisp functions in C programs from ecl and the size of the exec was about 300k 19:58:31 how can copy structure? I'm in situation when i want list of modificaions of same struct, when i'm setfing field in struct to desired value all previous modification of that struct in list are changing too 19:58:47 clhs defstruct 19:58:48 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_defstr.htm 19:58:51 i posted about it sometime ago (using ecl version 0.9l old but ok) 19:58:53 kaenga: defstruct defines copiers by default 19:58:54 kaenga: read it again! ^ 19:58:56 mathrick: yeah .. number of nicer things .. fasls deserve their name, debugging, etc .. found yesterday interrupt-process is _much_ nicer than sbcl's 19:58:58 it'd copy-x 19:59:16 for arbitrary structrues 19:59:19 clhs copy-structure 19:59:19 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_cp_stu.htm 19:59:22 oGMo: oh, I didn't know that. I've been missing out on CCL debugging because their support in SLIME is much less complete 19:59:29 mathrick: ah ;/ 19:59:34 stassats: ah, thanks. 19:59:42 one problem is that CCL doesn't implement source stepping IIRC 19:59:43 it's a matter of opinion oGMo. I don't find ccl better than sbcl 19:59:47 or didn't last time I checked 19:59:56 step is one lacking feature 20:00:36 until now of all the implementations sbcl remains at the top (for my needs) 20:01:01 -!- kaenga [~other@188.162.65.82] has quit [Client Quit] 20:01:35 mathrick: it's not a problem, since there's cl-stepper :-) 20:01:38 so yes a tree shaker for sbcl is something worthwhile 20:02:38 pjb: I looked into it last time I ran into it, yeah, I remember you plugging it in :) Right after I tried writing my own stepper and found it harder than it looks at the outset 20:03:07 I spend one week writting it, and had to try three times before finding the right way :-) 20:03:57 heh, yeah 20:04:06 it seems so easy before you start 20:05:23 I had already worked on the special operators for another programs. Now I'd like to make it a reusable code-walking/special-operator implementing library, but it'll require some more work. 20:06:36 I shall one day finish drewc's codewalker-less ITER implementation 20:06:57 it was very clever and fixed certain nasty corner cases 20:08:26 come to think of it, there are very few things that are so desperately needed, most of the things would be nice to have and fun to build; for example, it's true the difference bewteen 20MB and 200kb these days is nothing to mention, but a tree-shaker although not needed would be nice to have... and so it goes for many projects 20:08:58 yes 20:09:48 LiamH [~none@pool-173-73-122-143.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:05 przl [~przlrkt@p579235F0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:10:21 thelorax123 [~nodebot@162-204-145-159.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:12 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:14:25 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has joined 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has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:58:03 kaenga [~other@188.162.65.82] has joined #lisp 20:59:25 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 21:00:26 thelorax123 [~nodebot@162-204-145-159.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:06 sorry, another newbish question about structs, how can i create struct with one field which is annotated with type of another struct like (defstruct a (x)) (defstruct b (c (make-a) :type a)) but without default value for b-c. 21:01:16 -!- thelorax123 [~nodebot@162-204-145-159.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:01:17 like (defstruct b (c nil :type a)) 21:01:31 but nil doesn't work because it's not of type a. 21:02:01 is it possible to preserve type annotation but allow nil there? 21:03:22 thelorax123 [~nodebot@162-204-145-159.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:36 erikc [~erikc@CPE78cd8e65fa60-CM78cd8e65fa5d.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:06:05 i gues no 21:06:33 kaenga: :type (or null a) 21:06:45 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-67-9.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:06:53 mathrick: wow, thats cool 21:07:07 (or null whatever) is the type of "nullable WHATEVER value" 21:07:26 (defstruct b (c (error "You should give a :c to make-b") :type a)) 21:07:57 pjb: hah, thats required for initialization field, nice trick 21:08:28 how does guys in type theory calling :type (or a b)? sum type? 21:08:28 kaenga: be careful not to confuse the NULL type with the NIL type. NULL is the type whose only member is the symbol NIL. NIL is the empty type (ie. bottom of the type system), with no members 21:08:56 kaenga: I think union type, but then I'm not that great at type theory 21:09:24 mathrick: okay, thanks a lot 21:09:25 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-15-120.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:56 -!- thelorax123 [~nodebot@162-204-145-159.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:10:15 ltsampros [~user@adsl-190.46.190.114.tellas.gr] has joined #lisp 21:10:48 thelorax123 [~nodebot@162-204-145-159.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:07 is there any practical intro to clisp? I'm looking sth similar to sicp but more clisp oriented 21:11:34 Yes, there is. 21:12:52 gophround [~gopher@62.217.50.10] has joined #lisp 21:12:59 ltsampros: Just a minor point so you don't get confused in the future: CLISP is the name of a Common Lisp implementation, which is not normally used to denote Common Lisp, the language. 21:13:00 -!- thelorax123 [~nodebot@162-204-145-159.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:13:31 didi: thanks. I was referring to Common Lisp. 21:14:03 thelorax123 [~nodebot@162-204-145-159.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:10 minion: tell ltsampros about pcl 21:14:10 ltsampros: please look at pcl: pcl-book: "Practical Common Lisp", an introduction to Common Lisp by Peter Seibel, available at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ and in dead-tree form from Apress (as of 11 April 2005). 21:15:42 other recommendations apart from this one ? 21:15:49 ltsampros: http://www.cliki.net/Online%20Tutorial 21:17:29 ltsampros: and the clisp tutorial you asked for is at http://sourceforge.net/p/clisp/clisp/ci/default/tree/doc/LISP-tutorial.txt 21:17:35 -!- thelorax123 [~nodebot@162-204-145-159.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18:05 ty all 21:18:15 -!- kaenga [~other@188.162.65.82] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:18:28 thelorax123 [~nodebot@162-204-145-159.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:58 _schulte_ 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[~anonymous@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:57 didi` [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 21:45:36 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:48:41 -!- thelorax123 [~nodebot@162-204-145-159.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:50:07 bugrum [~bugrum@c-98-242-68-154.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:16 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@5.22.135.157] has joined #lisp 21:50:17 przl [~przlrkt@p579235F0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:51:08 thelorax123 [~nodebot@162-204-145-159.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:54 -!- thelorax123 [~nodebot@162-204-145-159.lightspeed.jcvlfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:52:31 -!- ozialien [~ernest@ip98-167-234-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:53:41 kaenga [~other@188.162.65.82] has joined #lisp 21:53:47 hi again 21:54:29 how can convert integer char like (magic 65) => #\A? 21:54:36 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 21:56:35 kaenga: (code-char 65) 21:57:45 -!- sabra [~sabra@67.174.222.215] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:58:13 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:58:15 samskulls: thanks 21:58:19 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:01:07 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-205-222.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:03:17 cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-21-147.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 22:06:43 -!- kaenga [~other@188.162.65.82] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:07:04 -!- arenz [~arenz@37.17.234.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:08:29 X-Scale [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has joined #lisp 22:08:59 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:09:09 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@184-080.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 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