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has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:36:40 minion: memo for didi: stassats lied to you: you can perfectly compare two lambdas for equality: (let ((a (lambda () 1)) (b (lambda () 1)) (c (lambda () 2))) (list (equal a a) (equal a b) (equal a c))) --> (t nil nil) ; works perfectly. Perhaps not what you or stassats expected, but it works. 06:36:40 Remembered. I'll tell didi when he/she/it next speaks. 06:41:07 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:41:40 pjb, what if we compare compiled lambdas? 06:41:54 i said that a minute later, pjb. 06:42:55 <|3b|> STilda: if you have a specific closure/function object, it is EQ to itself 06:43:11 <|3b|> if you have 2 distinct closures/functions, they are not EQ 06:43:52 Bike: yes :-) 06:43:56 -!- sloanr [~user@2601:2:4d00:2ef:953c:b79a:d7bf:68c0] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:44:03 But you didn't provide an example. 06:44:41 *|3b|* isn't sure if the spec requires A and B to be distinct in pjb's example though 06:44:52 STilda: lambdas in evaluation places are compiled when the form is compiled. 06:44:55 pretty sure it's unspecified 06:44:59 |3b|: indeed. 06:45:17 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@223.197.71.5] has joined #lisp 06:45:20 <|3b|> or calling a function that returns a closure twice (with same closed-over values) 06:45:45 -!- nilsi__ [~nilsi@180.108.184.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:45:48 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 06:46:11 *|3b|* would expect distinct closures if the close over different values, though i think that is just a practical result rather than specified 06:48:05 closures don't close over values. 06:48:12 they close over bindings. 06:48:27 pjb, what is "evaluation place"? 06:48:38 -!- guyal [~anonymous@108.235.117.64] has quit [Quit: The Sleeper has Asleepen] 06:48:57 <|3b|> right, bindings 06:48:58 (list (function (lambda () 'will-be-compiled)) (quote (lambda () 'will-not-be-compiled))) 06:49:14 (list (lambda () 'will-be-macroexpanded-and-compiled) '(lambda () 'will-not-be-compiled)) 06:49:15 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 06:49:34 The argument of quote are not evaluated. 06:49:46 Some other places don't evaluate too. 06:50:07 Perhaps I should not use the word "place" here, since it means something else too. 06:50:12 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:51:43 pjb, ok, this means that bodies of lambdas are compiled (if there is no quotation). right? 06:57:29 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.77.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:59:47 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@223.197.71.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:04:22 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:04:56 malbertife__ [~malbertif@host149-60-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 07:04:56 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 07:05:30 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:05:47 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 07:09:08 -!- malbertife [~malbertif@host149-60-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:11:01 STilda: yes. 07:11:41 bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 07:12:58 With clisp, you can try: (defun f () (lambda (x) (+ (* 2 x)))) RET (fdefinition 'f) RET (f) RET (compile 'f) RET (fdefinition 'f) RET (f) RET 07:13:34 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:15:14 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-147-235.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:15:26 guyal [~anonymous@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:16:38 -!- MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-74-100-140-127.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 07:19:39 It would probably be more useful to ask didi what problem it wants to actually solve. 07:20:30 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 07:20:44 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-67-9.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:22:00 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-007-131.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:22:34 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.35.101] has joined #lisp 07:23:10 -!- ejohnson 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[~user@2601:2:4d00:2ef:953c:b79a:d7bf:68c0] has joined #lisp 07:41:59 -!- ayont [~quedful@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 07:43:39 -!- sloanr [~user@2601:2:4d00:2ef:953c:b79a:d7bf:68c0] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:44:04 -!- clmsy_ [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:44:38 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 07:45:03 -!- malbertife__ [~malbertif@host149-60-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:45:13 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 07:46:34 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 07:48:54 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:49:56 vi1 [~vi1@93.92.216.186] has joined #lisp 07:51:08 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:52:04 aynik [~aynik@unaffiliated/aynik] has joined #lisp 07:53:19 is emacs supposed to format comments at the very center of the window 07:53:23 it leaves this massive space 07:53:32 try ;; for comments 07:53:49 thanks 07:56:29 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ejohnson] 07:57:56 -!- motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has quit [Quit: tschüß] 07:58:13 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 07:59:25 w|t: or ;;; to force them to the extreme left 08:00:16 i've read a few links on commenting styles (# of semicolons); is it pretty much universal? 08:00:26 or is there a wide disparity in styles? 08:01:17 w|t: it's pretty much universal 08:01:26 okay, thanks 08:02:01 frx [~frx@93-138-182-28.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 08:03:44 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:04:21 -!- frxx [~frx@78-0-234-144.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:08:42 scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 08:08:42 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 08:14:03 xificurC 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10:11:36 Vendethi_ [~Vende@163.5.245.253] has joined #lisp 10:12:18 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-164-149.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 10:12:22 -!- Jubb [~Jubb@pool-71-178-197-128.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:13:38 -!- zfx- [~zfx@ec2-176-34-198-128.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:14:02 zfx [~zfx@ec2-176-34-198-128.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 10:14:34 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-71-178-197-128.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:14:51 -!- surrounder [~surrounde@095-096-032-026.static.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: "latuh"] 10:15:17 surrounder [~surrounde@095-096-032-026.static.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 10:15:21 easiere [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 10:19:08 -!- nipra [~nipra@180.215.194.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:20:00 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:25:26 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:26:02 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 10:26:04 ZabaQ [~john.conn@86.63.2.14] has joined #lisp 10:26:13 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 10:26:31 I'm trying to read hu.dwim.walker and failing.. 10:26:36 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 10:26:46 It seems it's not written in Common Lisp but un hu.dwim.lisp 10:27:51 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-21-124-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:28:51 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:28:53 it's called hungarian lisp 10:29:44 hu.dwim.def .. seems to be an attempt to unify all of the common lisp def forms.. 10:30:03 I can problably use the walker by walking random forms and inspecting the output. 10:30:22 ..and working backwards from that. 10:32:17 You can't call yourself a lisper if you're not able to read code with a lot of macros. 10:32:36 It should be OBVIOUS that (def class toto (foo) ()) defines a class named toto, subclass of foo. 10:33:00 then i don't want to be called a lisper 10:33:54 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:34:09 ogamita: yes, this is pretty straightforward. 10:35:00 stassats: this is called abstraction. If you can't deal with it, you're not a lisper indeed. 10:36:08 (def layered-method handle-undefined-reference :in transform-undefined-references 10:36:15 is less obvious however. 10:36:42 LoicLisp [~loic@241.45.122.78.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 10:36:54 A class is somehthing that has a meaning in CL - a layered method, though? 10:38:23 A class is an object that describes how its instances behave. 10:38:25 abstraction calls up to generalization. There must be a definition for layered-methods somewhere. 10:38:47 It's like complaining about (setf foobar) because everybody knows what a car is but not a foobar. 10:39:15 Lisp requires significantly deeper reading than most languages. 10:39:19 I see #lisp hasn't changed much :-) 10:40:10 aren't there any other code-walkers? 10:40:18 i'd rather write my own than deal with anything hu. 10:40:19 Lisp also has docstrings. These were part of the language for a reason; do prevent having to repeatedly drill down (or up?) through layers of abstraction to prevent code. 10:41:06 If you sorn this facility, you might be a #lisp'er rather than a lisper! 10:41:48 As I said, I can treat the thing as a black box and work backwards via the inspector. 10:41:52 but i'm a true scotsman! 10:41:59 It's just a fairly ludicrous thing to have to do :-) 10:42:32 ZabaQ: it's just written in another programming language 10:42:38 abandon all your hope 10:42:48 Let's take docstrings out of the standard! And comments! And put all our non-existent docs on a non-functioning website! 10:42:58 Sorry...I'm getting ranty...! 10:42:59 namtsui [~user@c-76-21-124-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:43:07 just don't use it 10:43:12 problem solved! 10:44:07 Anyway, I'm getting off my point..deeper abstractions (rather than just syntatic sugar) require more than just code to be efficently grasped. 10:44:33 I deeply resent being made to feel stupid for daring to make this point! 10:45:08 -!- kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-213-168-89-244.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:45:10 pillton [~user@124-170-105-44.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:45:13 my next macro's body will be using cl-python and include python code 10:45:18 how's that for an abstraction? 10:46:28 kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-87-79-134-10.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:48:28 stassats: Who is behind the hu. stuff? 10:48:56 *loke* also agrees that most of the hu. code is painfully unreadable. 10:49:00 some Hungarians 10:49:02 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 10:49:10 Atilla Lendvai and others 10:50:38 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:50:43 strobegen [~Adium@188.168.72.236] has joined #lisp 10:51:14 OK, thanks 10:51:48 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:52:34 nilsi_ [~nilsi@180.175.38.126] has joined #lisp 10:53:42 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:54:01 stassats: if that let you write a clearer or conciser macro, why not! 10:54:18 *p_l* finds it a painful pun about hungarian code being unreadable 10:54:21 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:55:12 it may be very readable, but it's like reading clojure or scheme, a different language 10:57:26 Again, why not! This is the lisp way. Very good lisp applications are written in a scheme implemented in CL! 10:57:29 yeah, Hungarian notitation sucks 10:57:45 notation* 11:00:04 Use transylvanian notation. 11:01:22 the runic alphabet or whatever is it called? 11:01:42 -!- strobegen [~Adium@188.168.72.236] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:01:43 Have fun with unicode! 11:02:01 strobegen [~Adium@188.168.72.236] has joined #lisp 11:02:48 lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 11:03:08 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 11:04:12 http://paste.lisp.org/display/139785 11:05:18 oh wow 11:06:03 is this sanskrit? 11:06:33 Hindi? 11:07:09 Devanagari? 11:07:18 devanagari is a script 11:07:37 yes, the alphabet 11:07:43 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-164-149.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:08:18 -!- Vendethi_ [~Vende@163.5.245.253] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:08:30 google translate - translate it as Hindi - first comment: 11:08:31 , As the structure type name prefixed alists Implements structure. 11:08:31 ; Json uses this kind of alist. 11:08:52 harish [~harish@175.156.105.95] has joined #lisp 11:10:45 Vendethi_ [~Vende@163.5.245.253] has joined #lisp 11:11:02 Yes, I just used google translate with a random language with a different script. 11:12:38 -!- Vendethi_ [~Vende@163.5.245.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:16:21 Vendethi_ [~Vende@163.5.245.253] has joined #lisp 11:18:59 -!- Vendethi_ [~Vende@163.5.245.253] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:19:46 Vendethi_ [~Vende@163.5.245.253] has joined #lisp 11:21:10 -!- Vendethi_ [~Vende@163.5.245.253] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 11:22:07 save lisp and why? 11:22:32 Vendethi_ [~Vende@163.5.245.253] has joined #lisp 11:23:07 breakds [~breakds@c-24-0-147-122.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:23:57 Because we're lisp's god and we're good so we'll save lisp? 11:24:11 -!- Vendethi_ [~Vende@163.5.245.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:25:05 -!- pillton [~user@124-170-105-44.dyn.iinet.net.au] has left #lisp 11:28:17 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.35.101] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 11:29:29 echo-area [~user@111.196.7.198] has joined #lisp 11:32:53 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@5.22.135.157] has joined #lisp 11:33:10 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@5.22.135.157] has quit [Client Quit] 11:34:04 Vendethi_ [~Vende@163.5.245.253] has joined #lisp 11:34:18 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-4-224.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 11:35:33 -!- Vendethi_ [~Vende@163.5.245.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:40:19 no 11:41:49 sloanr [~user@c-75-72-180-205.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:44:57 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 11:48:02 So what do you mean? 11:48:47 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:49:11 Vendethi_ [~Vende@163.5.245.253] has joined #lisp 11:49:20 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 11:49:28 Or can we infer it's your just-awake meaningless utterance? 11:49:51 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 11:50:13 -!- ck is now known as ck`` 11:50:48 -!- Vendethi_ [~Vende@163.5.245.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:51:19 do you guys prefer dim or rainbow parens highlighting, and why? 11:51:32 e.g. "You should focus more on the indentation." says many lispers 11:52:36 What parens? 11:52:51 w|t: just write code! 11:53:28 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:53:42 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.35.101] has joined #lisp 11:54:21 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:55:22 haha :p 11:55:47 Vendethi_ [~Vende@163.5.245.253] has joined #lisp 11:57:11 -!- Vendethi_ [~Vende@163.5.245.253] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:20 ogamita: is a philosifical question or statement like co(g)ito ergo sum 12:00:29 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 12:05:55 Vendethi_ [~Vende@163.5.245.253] has joined #lisp 12:06:44 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@5.22.135.157] has joined #lisp 12:07:21 -!- Vendethi_ [~Vende@163.5.245.253] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:09:11 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:10:00 Vendethi_ [~Vende@163.5.245.253] has joined #lisp 12:11:23 -!- Vendethi_ [~Vende@163.5.245.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:12:50 Vendethi_ [~Vende@163.5.245.253] has joined #lisp 12:14:15 -!- Vendethi_ [~Vende@163.5.245.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:15:14 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 12:15:52 -!- malbertife [~malbertif@87.18.49.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:16:57 -!- Sgeo [~quassel@ool-ad034ea6.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:19:09 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:19:11 mk2 [~user@musketeer.wlan.uni-jena.de] has joined #lisp 12:21:51 Vendethi_ [~Vende@163.5.245.253] has joined #lisp 12:23:23 -!- Vendethi_ [~Vende@163.5.245.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:25:21 rainbow parens highlighting? 12:26:02 My slime doesn't start anymore. It gives the error: error in process filter: subseq: Autoloading failed to define function edmacro-subseq 12:26:09 Karl_dscc [~localhost@p578FC62F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:27:24 I use the slime that comes with quicklisp slime-20131003-cvs, and emacs 24.3.50.1 12:28:05 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 12:28:08 bulibuta [~bulibuta@141.85.150.31] has joined #lisp 12:32:34 Nuupi [~IceChat9@a91-154-110-47.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 12:33:22 Vendethi_ [~Vende@163.5.245.253] has joined #lisp 12:35:07 -!- Vendethi_ [~Vende@163.5.245.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:35:22 Vendethi_ [~Vende@163.5.245.253] has joined #lisp 12:35:35 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 12:37:05 -!- STilda [bca2a71f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.188.162.167.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:38:40 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-147-235.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:38:52 -!- nilsi_ 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danielszmulewicz] 13:00:36 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@5.22.135.157] has joined #lisp 13:02:09 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-twonxhsqltqtzdpd] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:03:14 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@5.22.135.157] has quit [Client Quit] 13:03:35 deadghost [~deadghost@pool-173-55-80-153.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:51 -!- breakds [~breakds@c-24-0-147-122.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:03:58 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 13:04:52 balle_ [~balle@pulsar-vm2.inf.ethz.ch] has joined #lisp 13:05:46 -!- balle_ [~balle@pulsar-vm2.inf.ethz.ch] has quit [Client Quit] 13:06:37 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:07:02 -!- balle [~balle@pulsar.inf.ethz.ch] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:07:35 balle [~balle@pulsar-vm2.inf.ethz.ch] has joined #lisp 13:07:37 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:08:28 -!- TDog 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[~jtza8@105-236-147-235.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:19:06 -!- Vendethi_ [~Vende@163.5.245.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:19:13 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 13:21:18 mc40 [~mcheema@146.255.107.116] has joined #lisp 13:21:19 I installed an older emacs and now my slime works again. Does anyone know, how I could fix this error, so that slime works with the new emacs as well? 13:21:22 -!- ZabaQ1 [~john.conn@86.63.2.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:22:02 Vendethi_ [~Vende@163.5.245.253] has joined #lisp 13:24:02 -!- Vendethi_ [~Vende@163.5.245.253] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 13:24:51 echo-area [~user@114.254.104.35] has joined #lisp 13:25:55 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@180.108.184.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:26:00 Does edmacro.el come up if you M-x find-library edmacro in the new emacs? 13:26:28 <^self> edmacro. hmm. 13:26:53 It's for keyboard macros: unrelated to Lisp. 13:27:17 <^self> it's in /Applications/Emacs.app/Contents/Resources/lisp/edmacro.el.gz for me (24.3) 13:27:23 <^self> s/in // 13:27:56 LiamH [~none@129-2-129-146.wireless.umd.edu] has joined #lisp 13:28:06 It's in my emacs, and edmacro-subseq is defined therein: I was just wondering if the file (or the function) has been removed 13:28:50 does it have a proper autoload marker? 13:28:57 No 13:29:32 I don't think it is an intended entry point of this file. 13:30:10 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 13:30:14 hi 13:30:55 Lefeni [~Lefeni@c-fc47e555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 13:31:16 <^self> http://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/tree/lisp/edmacro.el?h=trunk 13:31:33 <^self> it's now cl-subseq 13:31:53 <^self> er, it uses cl-subseq now, i mean. must recaffeinate. 13:32:01 Right 13:32:29 jsucsy [~jsucsy@38.108.127.66] has joined #lisp 13:32:47 So presumably mk2 can find the reference to edmacro-subseq and update it (possibly conditionally: I assume he wants old emacsen to still run the code). 13:34:43 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 13:34:54 I guess it's SLIME which needs patching(?) 13:35:44 slime doesn't use any edmacro 13:35:50 whatever that might be 13:36:45 oh, it's subseq in Emacs then 13:36:55 segv- [~mb@95-91-243-202-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:38:29 mk2 may have compiled slime.el, which may have produce bad results 13:39:32 <^self> c: "oh, you compiled your code with -O3, no wonder it broke." emacs: "oh, you compiled your code, no wonder it broke." 13:42:02 k0001 [~k0001@host168.181-1-207.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 13:44:36 -!- antgreen [~green@216.254.165.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:45:04 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.35.101] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 13:48:13 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:48:56 loke` [~user@2400:d803:7342:f91a:9823:334b:d53d:2634] has joined #lisp 13:50:25 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.35.101] has joined #lisp 13:53:29 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-61-86.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:54:22 vircures [~vircures@50-192-42-94-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:54:42 madrik [~user@122.168.221.190] has joined #lisp 13:56:41 mk2: have you tried slime from cvs? That might work. 13:56:49 -!- prxq__ is now known as prxq 13:58:28 guaqua` [gua@hilla.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 13:58:38 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 13:59:00 -!- vircures [~vircures@50-192-42-94-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:59:31 fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:00:14 -!- guaqua [gua@hilla.kapsi.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:02:37 it's the same as in quicklisp 14:03:22 subseq-wise 14:03:39 -!- guaqua` [gua@hilla.kapsi.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:04:55 nilsi_ [~nilsi@180.108.184.194] has joined #lisp 14:05:06 Shinmera [~linus@public-docking-pat-cx-mapped-0016.ethz.ch] has joined #lisp 14:05:14 guaqua [gua@hilla.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 14:06:21 stassats: debian sbcl sources are broken :( 14:06:42 ain't that news 14:06:44 why on earth are you using them? 14:07:06 because apt-build is more sexy 14:07:36 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 14:07:45 if you're into SM 14:08:03 well yes, but I'm not playing the slave :) 14:08:08 anyway 14:08:23 gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:29 would be fine to create a debian package from the sbcl original source 14:08:39 -!- shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-mrfktlnvpofrrmww] has quit [Quit: shridhar] 14:08:46 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-61-86.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 14:10:29 I'm not sure. I have my doubt that the distribution packaging principle is flawed. 14:11:00 Baggers [~Baggers@91.237.34.50] has joined #lisp 14:14:14 anyway I'm compiling the original source 1,1,13 14:14:35 did you create the right customize-target-features.lisp? 14:14:40 no 14:14:59 of course not, because that would make sense 14:15:46 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:15:50 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:15:59 yes 14:16:22 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 14:16:55 in src/code ? 14:18:58 -!- LiamH [~none@129-2-129-146.wireless.umd.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:19:48 put it onto a usb stick and send it to the moon 14:19:51 -!- mk2 [~user@musketeer.wlan.uni-jena.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:20:12 ok, will you pay for the rocket? 14:20:25 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 14:20:26 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:20:48 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@p578FC62F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:20:52 only if you will read the INSTALL file 14:21:02 read 14:21:08 but i don't have high hopes that you won't still get it wrong 14:21:48 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 14:22:15 jk121960 [~root@108-89-22-112.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:22:19 Posterdati: http://common-lisp.net/project/commonqt/#known-issues 14:22:28 -!- hyperboreean [~none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:22:28 yes 14:22:40 what does "in the base source directory" mean? 14:22:54 src 14:23:13 hyperboreean [~none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has joined #lisp 14:24:45 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Client Quit] 14:25:01 then shall I execute (save-lisp-and-bye) ??? 14:25:06 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 14:25:21 NO 14:25:26 :( 14:25:34 are you being serious or just trying to annoy the hell out of me? 14:26:28 stassats: don't worry I put the customize-target-features.lisp in the src directory 14:26:36 now it's compiling 14:26:54 x-compiling now 14:26:58 src/ is the wrong directory, goddamnit 14:27:14 and what is the base directory then??? 14:27:22 .. 14:27:32 ask somebody else, i'm no longer capable 14:27:37 ok 14:27:45 thanks 14:28:07 put it in all directories, one of them is bound to be correct 14:28:26 sure 14:28:34 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-61-86.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 14:28:39 I like you guys, always so cooperative 14:29:03 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-84-44-155-11.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:30:35 when i wrote that bit, i didn't want to put "in the base source directory" bit, but then decided that someone is bound to get it wrong without it, well, someone still got it wrong 14:33:02 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 14:33:29 masondesu [~textual@216.59.46.254] has joined #lisp 14:33:45 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:35:54 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-61-86.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 14:36:44 -!- ryankarason is now known as rk[wrkwrkwrk] 14:38:26 -!- sellout- [~Adium@75-166-112-222.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:38:28 -!- desophos [~desophos@n163h87.dhcp.oxy.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:39:45 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 251 seconds] 14:40:23 -!- Nuupi [~IceChat9@a91-154-110-47.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:41:04 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 14:41:24 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:41:26 -!- naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:41:37 Nuupi [~IceChat9@a91-154-110-47.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 14:41:41 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:42:02 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:42:36 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 14:42:56 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:43:26 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 14:46:09 sohail [~sohail@209.226.201.240] has joined #lisp 14:46:09 -!- sohail [~sohail@209.226.201.240] has quit [Changing host] 14:46:09 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 14:46:16 -!- Shinmera [~linus@public-docking-pat-cx-mapped-0016.ethz.ch] has quit [Quit: bbl] 14:48:35 fmeyer [~fmeyer@179.208.155.204] has joined #lisp 14:48:35 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@179.208.155.204] has quit [Client Quit] 14:49:02 hi 14:49:18 antgreen [~green@216.254.165.197] has joined #lisp 14:49:50 is common qt what most use to write GUI applications in CL 14:49:53 ? 14:50:38 not only.... 14:50:42 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:50:42 mcclim too.... 14:50:59 frx: it's the best choice if you want it to look like an application, be portable 14:51:15 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 14:52:29 frx: don't even think about trying mcclim 14:53:05 -!- fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:53:07 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:53:27 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:54:35 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 14:54:38 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 14:55:18 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:56:05 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 14:56:31 if you want something besides qt, there's also ltk, but i've never tried it 14:57:08 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:57:27 I tried it, it's quite good. 14:57:36 ZabaQ [~john.conn@86.63.2.14] has joined #lisp 14:58:07 At least it's better than mcclim. 14:58:14 that's not a high bar 14:58:31 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 14:58:51 sohail [~sohail@108.175.227.63] has joined #lisp 14:58:51 -!- sohail [~sohail@108.175.227.63] has quit [Changing host] 14:58:51 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 14:59:36 xotedend [~quassel@23-25-110-173-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:59:37 I've just played with it a bit so I can't say anything more specific than this. 15:00:03 tylergoza [~quassel@64.178.232.159] has joined #lisp 15:00:16 It certainly is usable. 15:00:39 malkomalko [~malkomalk@66-234-38-99.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:44 -!- malkomalko [~malkomalk@66-234-38-99.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:02:05 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-147-235.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:02:40 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 15:03:13 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@94.159.136.220] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 15:03:51 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[~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:17:26 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 15:19:56 sellout- [~Adium@c-67-176-62-45.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:22 stassats: You're no fan of mcclim? 15:20:38 Cymew: how did you guess? 15:20:39 I don't know about him, but I'm not. 15:21:03 Still it keeps beach busy and off the streets. 15:22:55 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:24:34 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:25:44 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:26:17 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 15:26:25 fisxoj [~fisxoj@dyn-129-97-41-230.dynamic.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 15:26:30 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 15:29:04 fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:29:15 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:29:51 guyal [~anonymous@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:59 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 15:34:07 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:34:11 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:36:23 -!- masondesu [~textual@216.59.46.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:38:28 masondesu [~textual@216.59.46.254] has joined #lisp 15:38:44 fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317643.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 15:40:13 compiled 15:43:06 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host168.181-1-207.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:43:08 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:43:15 desophos [~desophos@n163h87.dhcp.oxy.edu] has joined #lisp 15:44:12 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@5.22.135.157] has joined #lisp 15:45:05 k0001 [~k0001@host254.190-137-82.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 15:45:57 -!- desophos [~desophos@n163h87.dhcp.oxy.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 15:46:20 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@melontech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:47:23 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:47:38 -!- axion [~axion@btnund-ai01-74-214-214-174.utma.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:48:20 -!- bulibuta [~bulibuta@141.85.150.31] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:49:33 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:53:46 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 15:54:44 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 15:54:46 zoek1 [~zoek1@187.135.4.201] has joined #lisp 15:59:43 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 16:00:26 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 16:01:40 axion [~axion@btnund-ai01-74-214-214-174.utma.com] has joined #lisp 16:02:58 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 16:03:18 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@gw4.tieturi.com] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 16:05:16 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:06:11 Corvidium [~cosman246@h-68-165-77-148.sttn.wa.dynamic.megapath.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:14 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:06:40 -!- Baggers [~Baggers@91.237.34.50] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:08:32 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:12:29 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-55-219.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 16:14:25 -!- ogamita [~t@tru75-h02-31-38-72-69.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has left #lisp 16:15:37 Joreji [~thomas@144-246.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 16:16:38 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:16:38 -!- gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gendl] 16:16:48 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 16:17:39 Denommus` [~user@179.222.37.239] has joined #lisp 16:18:02 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 16:18:37 -!- strobegen [~Adium@188.168.72.236] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 16:21:03 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:23:33 -!- Pullphinger [~Pullphing@12.40.23.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:24:08 Pullphinger [~Pullphing@12.40.23.68] has joined #lisp 16:26:35 -!- ircbrowse [~chrisdone@2a01:4f8:150:5307::2] has quit [Changing host] 16:26:35 ircbrowse [~chrisdone@unaffiliated/chrisdone] has joined #lisp 16:26:45 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:27:33 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:12 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 16:28:33 LoicLisp [~loic@241.45.122.78.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:27 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:29:45 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-67-176-62-45.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:30:48 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 16:30:51 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:31:08 gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:15 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-164-149.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:35:10 I am playing with CXML for parsing XML documents. In the documentation there are some examples. Are there some more examples on the net? On how and when to use the several parts of CXML? 16:36:07 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:38:33 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:22 i haven't seen more examples, but i don't recall them being particularly necessary 16:43:42 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:45:24 krrrcks: what are you trying to do with the xml document? 16:46:18 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:20 I am trying to parse a document and extract some information. I thought using the klacks thing would be best (I only need some tags) to navigate through the document structure. 16:46:39 yes, klacks is good for that. I can pastebin something I recently used klacks for if you like 16:46:57 That would be great, jasom 16:47:37 note that i'm a self-taught lisper so my style is somewhat unorthodox. 16:48:07 Same here so don't worry about that ;) 16:49:37 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:50:24 zeebrah [~zeebrah@unaffiliated/zeebrah] has joined #lisp 16:51:14 oGMo: that doesn't seem like a very helpful response, unless you're offering to explain things 16:51:31 oh man, no autoscroll, sorry, I'm ten minutes behind 16:51:44 krrrcks: http://paste.lisp.org/display/139789 16:51:56 If you scroll down there is an snippet of the XML file it was parsing 16:52:50 Also notice I was originally sorting by , but switched to doing it for each element as some of the items spanned columns 16:53:34 Which is why the sorting function is still called sort-textlines (the code didn't need any change, IIRC) 16:55:11 okay, question of my own; is there a library to interpret byte-arrays as varoius integer types (e.g. 2-byte big endian, 4-byte little-endian; 2-byte twos-complement signed little endian...) 16:55:29 *jasom* has little functions for doing that littered all over his code 16:55:53 minion: nibbles? 16:55:53 nibbles: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/nibbles 16:56:48 stassats: thanks 16:56:58 jasom: thanks for the example! 16:57:08 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-255-002.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:58:37 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:58:43 Isn't it spelt nybbles? 16:58:55 ZabaQ: doesn't appear to be 16:59:10 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@180.108.184.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:59:10 cd bite/byte 16:59:21 I mean, c.f. bite/byte 16:59:24 bah humbug. It wants the array to be :element-type '(unsigned-byte 8) 16:59:47 nilsi_ [~nilsi@180.108.184.194] has joined #lisp 16:59:50 ZabaQ: I've seen it both ways; don't know which is older 17:01:01 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #lisp 17:01:46 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #lisp 17:02:37 -!- Denommus` is now known as Denommus 17:02:45 -!- Denommus [~user@179.222.37.239] has quit [Changing host] 17:02:45 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 17:04:36 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@180.108.184.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:04:53 -!- aftershave [~textual@h-136-25.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:05:08 aftershave [~textual@h-136-25.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 17:08:06 -!- ludocode [~quassel@206-248-130-104.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:15:15 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@wlan243204.rz.uni-leipzig.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15:58 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:16:03 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 17:20:01 -!- samskull` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:24:26 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:03 -!- scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-80-2.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:28:45 LiamH [~healy@132.250.138.103] has joined #lisp 17:31:09 sellout- [~Adium@66.185.108.211] has joined #lisp 17:32:16 -!- gendl [~dcooper8@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:39:50 cory786 [~cory@PAT97.wifi.utoledo.edu] has joined #lisp 17:40:53 -!- zeebrah [~zeebrah@unaffiliated/zeebrah] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:44:15 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:46:06 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:49:27 samskulls [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:04 -!- marsam [~marsam@162.243.38.157] has quit [Quit: ZNC - 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ZZZzzz] 19:01:13 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:01:34 stassats: I added the "know issues" code in the file in the main sbcl source directory 19:03:41 and tried to use QFileDialog 19:04:44 now, I've sb-thread, sb-safepoint and so on enabled in sbcl, how can I check for this? 19:04:56 look at *features* 19:06:15 ok... 19:06:47 TDog [~chatzilla@174-30-146-228.tcso.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:52 ok, they're there 19:08:04 (find :sb-wtimer *features*) 19:08:11 for example returns :sb-wtimer 19:08:41 (uiop:featurep :sb-wtimer) 19:08:56 T 19:09:53 -!- guyal [~anonymous@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: The Sleeper has Asleepen] 19:10:06 you can also (featurep '(:and :sbcl :sb-wtimer)) 19:11:43 better 19:12:41 though odds are, #+sbcl can be safely used at compile-time rather than runtime. 19:13:07 but on say abcl, checking for #+windows at compile-time is a bad idea. 19:13:21 really? 19:13:42 yup 19:14:00 thank you for the explanation 19:14:12 cory786 [~cory@PAT97.wifi.utoledo.edu] has joined #lisp 19:14:28 the java bytecode produced by abcl is portable, and the same abcl.jar runs on mac, linux, windows, etc. 19:14:42 and so can your own .jar produced by abcl 19:14:44 oh, sorry, i misread abcl for sbcl 19:15:24 -!- tylergoza [~quassel@64.178.232.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:15:55 *features*, as opposed to *modules*, is probably a bad place to put information that can change at runtime. 19:16:36 19:16:37 #d 19:16:43 masondes_ [~textual@216.59.46.254] has joined #lisp 19:17:06 -!- masondesu [~textual@216.59.46.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:20:53 milosn [~milosn@user-5af50c3b.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:49 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:23:43 -!- milosn_ [~milosn@user-5af50b90.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:24:26 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 19:27:19 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 19:28:21 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:30:08 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@112.10.116.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:32:08 -!- LoicLisp [~loic@241.45.122.78.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:33:10 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:34:03 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:05 Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-229-117-70.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:37:04 -!- cory786 [~cory@PAT97.wifi.utoledo.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:37:37 Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat110.it.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 19:38:17 |JRG| [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-34-151-82.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 19:38:40 synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has joined #lisp 19:42:53 -!- Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat110.it.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:43:15 stardiviner [~stardivin@112.10.117.233] has joined #lisp 19:44:54 Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat105.it.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 19:45:59 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-164-149.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:47:10 mathrick__ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 19:50:01 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:51:42 smazga [~Adium@li336-165.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 19:54:29 k0001 [~k0001@host82.186-125-96.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 19:56:52 How does one handle optional dependencies; for example, I have a program that implements a command-line interface, and I'd like to use linedit, if it's available, but fallback to (read-line) when not 19:57:12 Is there a way to express that in asdf? 19:57:46 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@ti-229-117-70.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Quit: Harag] 19:57:59 or do I just make a foo-linedit package that implements the linedit dependent functionality? 19:58:00 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@host162.190-138-111.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:58:23 jasom: This might have been obsoleted by something Fare added, but theres asdf-system-connections. 19:58:33 But check with Fare first. 19:58:57 jasom: there's nothing yet. We'd have to augment adsf with virtual systems or something like that? 19:59:10 asdf-system-connections? 19:59:14 you could also have multiple top-level systems that describe "configurations" with different dependencies 19:59:49 yeah I think for now I'll have multiple toplevel systems 19:59:59 pjb: Lets you define actions to execute if certain systems are loaded. 20:00:07 unless Fare says something like "Oh, I just added something awesome to make that work" 20:00:48 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@77-20-51-63-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:58 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:05:02 -!- abend [~quassel@75-148-54-129-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:05:27 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-27-174.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 20:08:08 -!- synacktic [~jordyd@unaffiliated/jordyd] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:11:18 ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 20:13:30 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.135] has quit [Client Quit] 20:14:51 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:15:23 jasom: there is weakly-depends-on, but I don't recommend its use 20:15:55 I recommend foo+bar that loads foo and bar and defines something that combines them using a hook in foo 20:16:25 and you can use asdf-system-connections to automatically loads foo+bar if foo and bar are both loaded 20:16:43 but I'm not sure I recommend that, either. 20:17:14 multiple toplevel systems is the only sane way to go, I'd say 20:18:53 Baggers [~Baggers@91.237.34.50] has joined #lisp 20:20:05 automagic configuration of dependencies would bring the horrors of autoconf, etc. 20:20:56 yeah 20:22:51 the horror of autoconf is m4 and the "sane environment" macro :| 20:23:28 in any case, no thanks 20:23:28 (aka why a python program with a bit of C might check out availability of fortran and version) 20:24:05 some months back, I started writing an article about ASDF, and how it was both more primitive than other build systems, yet saner in some ways. 20:24:30 the absence of compile-time horrors like autoconf is one of the ways Lisp is saner. 20:25:07 cory786 [~cory@PAT97.wifi.utoledo.edu] has joined #lisp 20:25:29 -!- ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has quit [Quit: brb] 20:25:59 99% of the problems autoconf is supposed to solve is solved in lisp by either feature-conditionals or portability libraries 20:26:03 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@dyn-129-97-41-230.dynamic.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: fisxoj] 20:26:17 and that's because Lisp has enough ways to deal with issues within the language (features, dynamic binding of functions, hooks and closures, higher-order functions, etc.) to not require a special external meta-language to do extra magic at build-time. 20:27:25 normanrichards [~textual@166.137.120.108] has joined #lisp 20:27:36 Okay, maybe only 80%; the other 20% is solved by having it run inside the lisp image. (No need to figure out the correct CFLAGS or LDFLAGS since you can just invoke compile directly) 20:28:03 -!- masondes_ [~textual@216.59.46.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:28:07 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:28:27 I quite like the fact that you have the lisp compiler at all steps (read, load, compile, eval), and the consequence of that being able not to need Makefiles with awk and sed and other hacks 20:28:38 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:25 masondesu [~textual@216.59.46.254] has joined #lisp 20:29:45 -!- Baggers [~Baggers@91.237.34.50] has left #lisp 20:30:38 all of these, and more. 20:31:14 nug700 [~nug700@209-181-102-38.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:25 that all allows for a simpler, more robust build system than needed on other platforms. 20:32:56 vircures [~vircures@50-192-42-94-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:15 -!- kbtr [~kbtr@li198-73.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:33:26 Fare: oO 20:33:30 kbtr [~kbtr@li198-73.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:33:35 H4ns, ? 20:33:40 Fare: you painted yourself into a corner :D 20:33:46 I have. 20:33:52 Now, I'm trying to jump out. 20:34:23 Fare: thanks for the effort getting the non-airline stuff of qres open-sourced, btw. 20:34:40 Fare: browsing the code brought back good memories :) 20:34:41 oh, you're welcome. We still haven't done anything about the history. 20:35:15 if you "steal" some of it, send notice to qitab-devel — it's stuff that ought to be "stolen" back. 20:35:26 -!- sellout- [~Adium@66.185.108.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:35:43 Fare: i'm not currently using cl, sadly, but if i'll ever return to it, i shall 20:37:50 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:38:04 H4ns, btw, regarding the lisp machine keyboard, was there a good reason to cut the cable rather than use a connector / adapter? 20:38:07 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 20:38:22 was it hard to find a RJ-11 or whatever it is connector? 20:38:27 Fare: i've not cut cables in my later conversions. 20:38:40 oh, ok. 20:38:53 Fare: i replace the cable or the rj-11 jack with the usb cable. 20:39:04 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:39:29 a web search finds this: http://netzhansa.blogspot.com/2009/04/how-to-convert-your-symbolics-keyboard.html 20:39:33 is there a more recent one? 20:40:25 no, that is it. no cables harmed in that description. 20:40:30 ok 20:41:01 well, ok, the usb plug needs to be made smaller, but that's not the precious original symbolics cable 20:42:30 foeniks [~fevon@p57A5C39E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:43:00 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-27-174.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:43:40 -!- smazga [~Adium@li336-165.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:44:13 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@128.120.113.195] has joined #lisp 20:45:55 tylergoza [~quassel@64.178.232.159] has joined #lisp 20:46:13 sellout- [~Adium@66.185.108.211] has joined #lisp 20:47:13 loiclisp [~loic@241.45.122.78.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:06 quicknewb [~other@188.162.65.51] has joined #lisp 20:53:10 hi there 20:54:40 i have (:tree "~/foo/bar/") in my .config/common-lisp/source-registry.conf.d/my-asdf.conf, alsa i have directory "baz" in ~/foo/bar which contains single asd file which has defsystem in it. 20:54:58 I'm not sure ~ is portable 20:55:10 when i'm trying to quickload that system ql is unable to find it 20:55:12 maybe you want (:tree (:home "foo/bar/")) instead 20:55:16 am i missing something? 20:55:34 Fare: thanks for tip but it's not the case 20:55:39 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 20:56:09 what when you (asdf::flatten-source-registry) ? 20:56:38 -!- masondesu [~textual@216.59.46.254] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:57:04 -!- milanj [~milanj@82.117.199.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:57:56 I'm not convinced ~ works. I think I never tried hard to make it work, so it probably won't. 20:58:17 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 20:58:57 Fare: i've just change it to :home variant and it still doesn't work neither flattens-source-tree . 20:59:37 i really have just single asd file there with defsystem without components, just version and depends-on for ql. 20:59:57 is it correct? 21:00:16 i mean maybe systems like that doesn't allowed 21:00:16 It's easy to forget that `~' is a shell expansion thing. 21:00:16 didi, memo from pjb: stassats lied to you: you can perfectly compare two lambdas for equality: (let ((a (lambda () 1)) (b (lambda () 1)) (c (lambda () 2))) (list (equal a a) (equal a b) (equal a c))) --> (t nil nil) ; works perfectly. Perhaps not what you or stassats expected, but it works. 21:01:44 pjb: Thank you, but I meant to have (equal a b) => t. 21:02:13 didi: pjb just wanted to contradict me 21:02:14 pjb: I'm guessing (eq a a) should also eval to t? 21:02:23 stassats: oic 21:02:28 hm, nope, just added components there and it still can't find my system. 21:02:29 equal on functions is the same as eq 21:02:45 stassats: Oh, good. Thank you. 21:03:37 well that stuff is hard to troubleshoot over irc, so another question, why people use #: uninterned symbols in package definition like for exprts? 21:03:38 didi: I'm curious, what does it mean for two lambdas to be equal, in your view? 21:04:30 hiroakip [~hiroaki@p5DC63376.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:04:39 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:04:50 Yanez: That's a good question. I didn't give it much thought. 21:05:01 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 21:05:20 I know elisp can do it, but I don't know what's its view on it. 21:05:33 didi: if you are thinking about their representations as lists, then the answer is trivial (see pjb) 21:05:39 one definition would be: same function, same closed over values 21:05:50 what is good naming convention for package names? 21:06:00 stassats: ok, then... what does "same function" mean? 21:06:00 :system-name.package-name? 21:06:22 clhs glossary/same 21:06:22 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_s.htm#same 21:07:01 stassats: I mean, take (lambda (x) (* x x)) and (lambda (y) (* y y)) ... are these the same function or not? 21:07:01 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@86.63.2.14] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:07:35 they are different lists, different objects in memory... but when used as functions they behave identically 21:07:38 help 21:08:10 Yanez: see the link i gave you 21:09:05 stassat: I saw it, my question is "what is the definition of equality for functions that did had in mind when he asked his question" 21:09:17 did = didi 21:10:03 -!- foom [~jknight@2620:15c:6:14:be30:5bff:fedf:6db6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:10:04 well, i answered it, which bit is unclear? 21:10:15 peoeoople 21:10:44 with a hypothetical way to define equality, that is 21:11:03 stassats: you didn't answer this question: take (lambda (x) (* x x)) and (lambda (y) (* y y)) ... are these the same function or not? 21:11:18 they are not, but you're confused 21:11:20 stassats: but the question was actually for didi, he's the one who raised the issue 21:11:35 I don't think I'm confused :) 21:11:36 ecraven [~user@www.nexoid.at] has joined #lisp 21:11:43 do you know the difference between closures and functions? 21:11:48 sure 21:12:21 (defun foo (x) (lambda () x)), (equal (foo 1) (foo 1)) would be T 21:12:45 same function, same closed over values 21:13:03 Yanez: it all depends on your own definition of "same" 21:13:21 stassats: in ACL it returns nil, not T 21:13:23 the real question, Yanez, is, - right. Like H4ns said :-) 21:13:36 -!- zoek1 [~zoek1@187.135.4.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:13:37 same function means "eql" 21:13:40 H4ns: yes, that's what I was trying to get at 21:13:45 Yanez: what when you use eq? 21:13:46 same means eql unless specified otherwise 21:13:55 Yanez: common lisp does not define "same" at all 21:13:57 Yanez: i can't prefix it with "hypothetical" all the time 21:14:00 wow, figured that out 21:14:06 H4ns: it does 21:14:10 clhs glossary/same 21:14:10 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_s.htm#same 21:14:11 asd file should be named like system it holds 21:14:15 surprise 21:14:26 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 24.0/20130910160258]] 21:14:26 ok, everybody, just to be clear... I'm not the one who asked this question, it was didi 21:14:35 I was just trying to get him to clarify this question 21:15:01 -!- quicknewb [~other@188.162.65.51] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:15:26 because if I define (lambda (x) (* x x)) and (lambda (y) (* y y)), these two function objects will *not* be the same according to lisp, regardless of what equality predicate you use 21:15:38 but *mathematically* they are indistinguishable, right? 21:15:48 srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 21:15:51 Yanez: that's ok. What does in ACL do with (eq (foo 1) (foo 1)) 21:15:52 ? 21:16:00 meaning that when given the same input, they return the same output 21:16:02 (declaim (special y)), now where's your mathematics? 21:16:12 Yanez: sure, but afair, not even (eq 14 14) is guaranteed to return T. 21:16:15 (eq (foo 1) (foo 1)) 21:16:15 NIL 21:16:16 quicknewb: what does (asdf::locate-system "baz") return? 21:16:29 stassats: I don't see what that has to do with my question... 21:16:54 stassats: it works!!! 21:17:07 asd file should be named like system it holds 21:17:12 Yanez: which one of the questions? 21:17:12 and again... my question was for didi, and he's the only one who is not answering :) 21:17:38 well, what did he expect? the loading of all asd files in advance? 21:17:44 quick common-qt question. What happens if there is an error in a callback, and the stack gets unwinded in a return to toplevel? Does it screw up the Qt lib? 21:18:00 prxq: it screws the event loop a bit 21:18:07 ok. 21:18:08 stassats: I'll state it again... "didi, when you asked your question, which definition of equality did you have in mind for functions? and according to your definition, are (lambda (x) (* x x)) and (lambda (y) (* y y)) equal or not?" 21:18:52 prxq: you can still exec qwidtgest, but the (#_exec *qapplication*) will fail 21:19:08 Yanez: in this channel, it does not make much sense to sweat that kind of stuff. It's better to just forget about it. Who asked what, why & when etc is of little use. 21:19:16 abend [~quassel@75-148-54-129-Oregon.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:21 there's no equality for functions in CL 21:19:36 i present you with a way to define it, like it or not, and whether am i didi or not 21:19:48 stassats: I know... that's what I was trying to explain to didi... 21:20:01 *prxq* sighs 21:20:09 stassats: is (eql #'eql #'eql) not supposed to return T ? 21:20:41 I know that in scheme, the equivalent is not guaranteed. 21:20:44 Fare: for cl:eql, it would 21:21:04 but for (eql #'arbitrary #'arbitrary), arbitrary may get redefined halfway through 21:21:06 but if you defun a, then you can have (eql #'a #'a) => nil ? 21:21:17 sure, but assuming it wasn't redefined 21:21:28 my point (that I didn't get to make yet) is *I think* that even from the *mathematical* point of view it's impossible to define equality for functions in a general way 21:21:50 Yanez: yes it is. Same values for all inputs = same function 21:21:50 Yanez: I once wrote an article that proves you wrong. 21:22:03 Yanez: and i just did define it in a potentially useful way, without even using any mathematics 21:22:11 and that was so before Fare wrote whatever article on that 21:22:17 prxq: that's the point... you would have to apply a function to all possible inputs... which will take forever 21:22:26 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 21:22:32 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:22:52 you can indeed define a lisp-like computing system in which you always have (= #'a #'b) ==> t iff they are the same function 21:23:06 unhappily, it might not terminate if they aren't :-/ 21:23:12 Yanez: that's not an issue for mathematics. 21:23:16 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 21:23:22 milanj [~milanj@cable-178-148-2-202.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 21:23:25 but my definition is useful only for closures 21:23:35 i don't see any use of comparing different functions themselves 21:23:42 Fare: but how can = be guaranteed to terminate if /= may not? 21:23:59 = is only guaranteed to terminate when the answer is t 21:24:02 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 21:24:10 Yanez: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extensionality 21:24:48 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 21:24:57 fare: what I mean is... can you write a function that checks that (eql (funcall a x) (funcall b x)) for all possible values of x? 21:25:14 you can, but it sucks :-) 21:25:21 are symbols and functions required to be disjoint types ? 21:25:23 do you want to do that? 21:25:39 no, you can write a function that checks whether p proves either (= a b) or (/= a b) for every well-formed proof p 21:25:58 prxq: I don't think you can :) 21:26:20 and you can tweak your system such that if there's a proof iff the functions are the same 21:26:23 stassats: no, of course not... once again, I was simply try to explain to didi that his question didn't make a lot of sense 21:26:35 Yanez: if x is supposed to be a float, then you can write such a function. It takes a while to finish, though 21:26:41 (which requires clever tricks) 21:26:47 Yanez: it made sense to me 21:26:49 fare: can you enumerate all possible well-formed proofs p? 21:26:56 -!- normanrichards [~textual@166.137.120.108] has quit [] 21:26:57 Yanez: now you are hiding a bit much behind didi 21:26:58 yes, trivially 21:27:07 ugh. every time I begin to consider Python a nice and useful-enough language I come across a problem that makes me think too hard that is effortless in CL. 21:27:13 prxq: hiding? what do you mean? 21:27:24 the non-trivial part is making sure that if there is no proof, the two functions differ. 21:27:39 Yanez: that won't work for this, for example (defun foo (x) (if (= x 3) (loop))) 21:28:05 jasom: right... I am actually claiming that it is *not* possible 21:28:09 I wonder if it would be legal for (eql 'eql #'eql) => T 21:28:11 in cl, the function object can be a closure, and comparing closures can make sense 21:28:19 jasom, jasom, jasom. You are being difficult again! 21:28:20 j_king: share the details :) 21:28:25 and that clearly doesn't hold for an arbitrary formal system, you need a special one 21:28:58 prxq: and of course restricting the input only to one data type (e.g. floats) is easy... I was talking about *all possible inputs* 21:29:14 then no, of course not. 21:29:15 adeht: I 21:29:25 adeht: I'll write another blog post some time. ;) 21:29:27 prxq: ok, thanks for agreeing with me :) 21:29:45 Yanez: I thought I'm agreeing with didi ;) 21:29:45 j_king: are you on planet lisp? 21:29:49 fe[nl]ix, in CL, I don't think symbol and function are allowed to have non-empty intersection. 21:29:49 clhs 4.2.2 21:29:50 Type Relationships: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/04_bb.htm 21:29:53 fe[nl]ix: you can't 21:30:19 adeht: nope. 21:30:26 The types ..., symbol, ..., function..are pairwise disjoint 21:30:38 -!- Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:30:50 fe[nl]ix: but this is true, trivially: (eql (function eql) #'eql) 21:31:39 j_king: agentultra I assume? 21:31:40 fare: I'm sorry... isn't the set of all well-formed proofs infinite? 21:32:09 adeht: yeah... but I wouldn't know how to sort out my posts so that the planet feed only gets my lisp stuff... I write about all kinds of non-lispy stuff on my site. 21:33:52 j_king: no prob.. I'll add it to gwene ;) 21:34:09 adeht: what's that? 21:34:19 -!- Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat105.it.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:34:35 j_king: hmm your blog has no feed? 21:34:36 archonix [~none@78.90.30.16] has joined #lisp 21:34:44 j_king: http://gwene.org/ 21:34:56 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-27-174.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 21:35:03 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.77.67] has joined #lisp 21:35:17 adeht: again, I'm terrible at knowing what to do there. I've hired someone to help me with getting it back up to speed. 21:35:29 adeht: I'm not much a web person these days. 21:35:59 j_king: I see 21:36:13 ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 21:36:15 adeht: I'll let you know if/when I get around to it. :) 21:36:19 j_king: rightly so, web is a fad 21:36:58 j_king: cool 21:37:09 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:37:29 -!- loiclisp [~loic@241.45.122.78.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:37:51 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 21:38:11 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 21:38:55 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 21:38:59 masondesu [~textual@216.59.46.254] has joined #lisp 21:39:13 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 21:40:01 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 21:40:04 flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has joined #lisp 21:40:06 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:40:16 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Client Quit] 21:40:58 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 21:41:02 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:41:23 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 21:42:19 -!- cory786 [~cory@PAT97.wifi.utoledo.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:43:51 -!- TDog [~chatzilla@174-30-146-228.tcso.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:44:04 Yanez: it's recursively enumerable 21:44:32 fare: but in practice, it would take an infinite amount of time to enumerate all of them, right? :) 21:45:03 sure, that's why the procedure won't terminate if neither the proposition nor the opposite is provable. 21:45:26 fare: right, in general it's an undecidable problem... 21:46:12 but you can tweak your system so that the proofs are complete wrt equality, i.e. if a=b, then there's a proof of it. 21:47:02 -!- axion [~axion@btnund-ai01-74-214-214-174.utma.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:47:45 hm... read about someone using CL in HFT to compile a trading algo onto FPGAs... wonder if the same could be done for bioinformatics. low-cost way to turn a custom algo into fast hardware for simulation or search. 21:48:18 FPGAs are not low-cost, these days... 21:48:27 Ener2 [~wutlol@158.194.168.92] has joined #lisp 21:48:34 and yes, marc battyani is doing that 21:48:35 hello gentlemen 21:49:01 foom [~jknight@2620:15c:6:14:be30:5bff:fedf:6db6] has joined #lisp 21:49:02 also, I doubt he can convince his investors to opensource much of his code 21:49:21 how would be the best way to print only values from plist in format? 21:50:28 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:50:33 Ener2: (format t "~{~*~a~^ ~}" '(a b c d)) 21:51:15 stassats: let me try it out 21:52:02 normanrichards [~textual@cpe-24-27-51-104.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:52:38 works great, thanks! 21:54:04 I was wondering if this macro could be simplified 21:54:06 http://paste.lisp.org/display/139796 21:54:38 Fare: Ah, Marc. Ok, thanks. 21:55:22 smazga [~Adium@li336-165.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 21:55:31 seangrove [~user@2600:1010:b020:592a:fd0e:11c9:53d5:4a19] has joined #lisp 21:56:05 -!- foom [~jknight@2620:15c:6:14:be30:5bff:fedf:6db6] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:56:12 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-197-79.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:56:52 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@p5DC63376.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:57:37 -!- wchun [~wchun@81-233-226-189-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:57:43 Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat101.it.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 21:57:51 -!- xotedend [~quassel@23-25-110-173-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:51 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-21-124-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:59:46 jaccarmac [~jaccarmac@yosemite.yosemite.edu] has joined #lisp 21:59:54 -!- jaccarmac [~jaccarmac@yosemite.yosemite.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 22:00:16 foom [~jknight@2620:15c:6:14:be30:5bff:fedf:6db6] has joined #lisp 22:01:15 -!- Fare [~fare@216.239.55.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:01:16 axion [~axion@btnund-ai01-74-214-214-174.utma.com] has joined #lisp 22:02:51 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.77.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:02:58 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:03:10 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:11 namtsui [~user@c-76-21-124-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:18 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:29 -!- vircures [~vircures@50-192-42-94-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: vircures] 22:06:10 -!- fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:06:38 -!- masondesu [~textual@216.59.46.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:06:46 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 22:08:52 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@D-173-250-158-71.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:09:01 -!- Ener2 [~wutlol@158.194.168.92] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 24.0/20130910160258]] 22:10:02 masondesu [~textual@216.59.46.254] has joined #lisp 22:14:22 Fare [fare@nat/google/x-xkxehtotflewubbr] has joined #lisp 22:15:19 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 22:16:28 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.135] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:16:49 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:18:29 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:40 stassats: it works!!!!! 22:18:59 it works twice? that's good, i think 22:19:30 would you like to see my app interface? 22:19:59 maybe 22:20:00 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:20:45 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:48 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host82.186-125-96.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:22:02 stassats: the features in "know issues" can be enabled in the debian sbcl? 22:22:16 stassats: or it must be compiled in it? 22:22:23 debian sbcl is of no my concern 22:22:41 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:47 ok 22:23:07 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 22:23:57 k0001 [~k0001@host164.200-117-34.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 22:25:04 the sbcl and asdf in debian unstable are both pretty recent, but will make it to testing and stable eventually 22:25:25 -!- archonix [~none@78.90.30.16] has quit [Quit: beer timeout!] 22:28:01 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:28:01 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-36-194.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:28:29 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-36-194.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 22:33:05 ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 22:33:27 -!- Yanez [~Thunderbi@159.178.28.52] has quit [Quit: Yanez] 22:35:30 Fare: unstable packages are not so quick to pass in the stable release 22:35:30 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-36-194.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:35:53 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-181-36-194.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:09 Fare: and will still lacks for qt compatibility as stated in http://common-lisp.net/project/commonqt/#known-issues 22:36:31 this may be eventually enabled by default in SBCL 22:36:57 but there's still one potential and rare failure i need to investigate 22:37:04 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:37:36 platypine [platypine@unaffiliated/doritos] has joined #lisp 22:38:49 huh. What does safepoint have to do with callback from foreign thread? 22:39:04 foom: it's just implemented only for sb-safepoint 22:39:09 bgs100 [~nitrogen@h113.117.187.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:16 -!- bgs100 [~nitrogen@h113.117.187.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:39:16 bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 22:39:17 -!- Nuupi [~IceChat9@a91-154-110-47.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you] 22:39:21 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:39:24 -!- Fare [fare@nat/google/x-xkxehtotflewubbr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:39:45 Okay, so it does depend right now, but not for any particularly good reason? 22:39:56 i actually don't know 22:39:57 Just nobody's bothered to fix the issue yet? 22:40:25 malbertife [~malbertif@87.18.49.201] has joined #lisp 22:40:36 it's so poorly documented and implemented, i dread to touch it 22:40:38 Callback from other thread is something I might want to be able to do soon, maybe I'll get Doug to look. :) 22:41:55 askatasuna [~askatasun@host53.190-231-92.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 22:42:28 -!- |JRG| [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-34-151-82.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:42:36 and safepoint work quite well, so there isn't much incentive to port it to non-safepoints 22:43:19 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.135] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:44:49 Which part are you saying is poorly documented and implemented? callbacks? 22:45:22 all interactions with signals and threads 22:45:35 -!- flame_ [~flame_@unaffiliated/flame/x-0205742] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:48:37 -!- smazga [~Adium@li336-165.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:49:22 davazp [~user@178.167.140.180.threembb.ie] has joined #lisp 22:49:29 -!- masondesu [~textual@216.59.46.254] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 22:50:49 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@128.120.113.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:50:53 now that i looked at it, callbacks shouldn't be too hard 22:51:03 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-27-174.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:52:23 but safepoints are still nice to have by default 22:53:12 -!- kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-87-79-134-10.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:53:34 kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-213-196-195-199.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:54:23 Corvidium [~cosman246@D-69-91-189-47.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 22:54:26 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-84-44-155-11.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:55:42 -!- sellout- [~Adium@66.185.108.211] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:58:19 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 22:59:03 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host164.200-117-34.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:01:22 -!- foeniks 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[~frx@93-138-182-28.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:55:39 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 23:56:50 -!- xenophon [~user@64.124.65.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:57:58 xenophon [~user@64.124.65.162] has joined #lisp 23:58:17 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:22 emacs' syntax highlighting doesn't like a 10k element plist 23:59:50 lol