00:00:30 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-98-217.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:02:05 Andrevan [~andrevan@wikipedia/Andrevan] has joined #lisp 00:04:53 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:05:02 -!- ics [~ianclarks@ool-18bf6d86.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:06:42 ludocode [~quassel@76-10-182-192.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 00:07:11 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@192-0-131-151.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:08:42 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:08:52 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 00:08:55 hi 00:08:59 ianclarksmith [~ianclarks@ool-18bf6d86.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:59 -!- ianclarksmith is now known as ics 00:11:40 -!- tertl3-laptop [~tertl3-la@75.139.64.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:13:10 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:37 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-98-217.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:17:31 antonv_: well AFAIK, the pretty printing of XML is not a good idea, standard-wise: that leaves a lot of text data elements that should be processed. Anyways, to read xml, I use my emacs command xml-to-sexp-buffer (and sexp-to-xml-buffer to convert back to xml) to read sexps instead. 00:17:47 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 00:18:03 http://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/emacs/source/b58a0a336b46f3523700931117b409307b13d9b0:pjb-xml.el 00:18:53 awygle [~Andrew@50.46.151.244] has joined #lisp 00:19:52 fisxoj [~fisxoj@192-0-131-151.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 00:20:16 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-98-217.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:25:52 zajn [~zajn@airbears2-136-152-142-38.AirBears2.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 00:28:38 nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 00:29:39 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:30:33 -!- travisr [~travisrod@173-13-144-65-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:30:47 Neoncort` [~Aerolitus@177.39.189.243] has joined #lisp 00:30:48 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-98-217.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:32:15 -!- Neoncortex [~Aerolitus@unaffiliated/xispirito] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:33:02 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:36:31 gmcastil [~user@ip-64-134-156-78.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 00:36:40 ikki [~ikki@187.208.163.24] has joined #lisp 00:38:33 -!- Neoncort` [~Aerolitus@177.39.189.243] has quit [Changing host] 00:38:33 Neoncort` [~Aerolitus@unaffiliated/xispirito] has joined #lisp 00:38:40 -!- Neoncort` is now known as neoncortex 00:39:15 sohail [~sohail@206-248-183-162.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 00:39:15 -!- sohail [~sohail@206-248-183-162.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 00:39:15 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 00:42:05 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-98-217.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:44:32 -!- arrsim` [~user@128.250.116.182] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:44:44 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-83-63.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:44:49 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-83-63.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:45:06 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-83-63.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:45:30 -!- desophos [~desophos@n138h11.dhcp.oxy.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:45:41 -!- Aramur [~arare@213.Red-79-156-36.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Aramur] 00:45:42 -!- arare [~Aramur@153.68.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: arare] 00:46:53 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:51:06 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.163.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:53:34 pjb: xml-to-sexp is good 00:53:51 LiamH [~none@pool-173-73-124-231.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:56:25 zajn_ [~zajn@airbears2-136-152-142-38.AirBears2.Berkeley.EDU] has joined #lisp 00:56:33 -!- gmcastil [~user@ip-64-134-156-78.public.wayport.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:56:38 -!- zajn [~zajn@airbears2-136-152-142-38.AirBears2.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:56:39 -!- zajn_ is now known as zajn 01:00:11 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-24-18-219-78.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: BrianRice] 01:00:38 BrianRice [~water@c-24-18-219-78.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:01:11 -!- BrianRice [~water@c-24-18-219-78.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:01:19 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-83-63.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 01:01:28 BrianRice [~water@c-24-18-219-78.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:01:37 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-83-63.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:02:03 -!- knob [~knob@66-50-188-37.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:03:15 knob3212 [~knob@66-50-188-37.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:21 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-83-63.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:04:23 -!- harish [~harish@119.56.122.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:04:38 ubikation [~ubikation@c-67-168-252-238.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:16 hey how do I get the equivalent of the #'function-symbol for a function I define inline? 01:06:08 The same? 01:06:17 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-83-63.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:06:22 prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-590c1c6b.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:33 I have a function that works when I go (fun #'fun-sym) but not (fun '( fun-sym code.... ))) 01:06:46 Well, that's unsurprising. 01:07:02 In the first case you're passing a function, in the second you're passing a list of symbols. 01:07:33 Consider what '(fun-sym code) produces ... 01:09:13 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-83-63.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:09:32 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.185.180] has joined #lisp 01:09:43 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.185.180] has quit [Changing host] 01:09:43 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 01:09:50 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75e29f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:10:22 -!- keltvek [~keltvek@unaffiliated/keltvek] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:12:28 -!- knob3212 [~knob@66-50-188-37.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:12:38 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:12:59 knob3212 [~knob@66-50-188-37.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:20 -!- knob3212 [~knob@66-50-188-37.prtc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:15:52 knob3212 [~knob@66-50-188-37.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 01:16:04 how do I define a function that can be passed? I tried #' to no avail 01:16:20 your question is hard to understand. 01:16:28 you can't define a function which can't be passed with #' 01:17:56 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:18:15 okay I am defining a function globally in the file using (defun b () (format t "hello~%")) 01:18:32 and I can pass it with (my-fun #'b) 01:18:48 but I want to do (my-fun #'(format t "hello~%")) 01:18:51 -!- davazp [~user@48.Red-79-150-239.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:18:56 eh? 01:19:03 (my-fun (lambda () (format t "hello~%"))) 01:19:04 have you heard of lambda? 01:20:30 thanks! 01:22:21 travisr [~travisrod@ip-64-134-235-6.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:09 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 01:26:18 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:28:10 zRecursive [~czsq888@171.217.0.180] has joined #lisp 01:30:45 -!- knob3212 [~knob@66-50-188-37.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:30:56 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-83-63.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:31:20 knob3212 [~knob@66-50-188-37.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:31 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:35:04 -!- zajn [~zajn@airbears2-136-152-142-38.AirBears2.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Quit: zajn] 01:35:51 -!- genkinodenki [~migrayn@dsl-vntbrasgw1-50dc7f-98.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:36:30 -!- neoncortex [~Aerolitus@unaffiliated/xispirito] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:36:36 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.129.10.221] has joined #lisp 01:38:18 -!- awygle [~Andrew@50.46.151.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:42:24 knob5312 [~knob@66-50-188-37.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 01:43:26 -!- knob3212 [~knob@66-50-188-37.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:43:33 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 01:43:38 awygle [~Andrew@50.46.151.244] has joined #lisp 01:44:18 desophos [~desophos@n138h11.dhcp.oxy.edu] has joined #lisp 01:46:16 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:48:29 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.129.10.221] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:48:46 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:49:40 -!- knob5312 [~knob@66-50-188-37.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:50:29 neoncortex [~Aerolitus@unaffiliated/xispirito] has joined #lisp 01:50:44 knob5312 [~knob@66-50-188-37.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 01:53:44 neoncort` [~Aerolitus@177.39.189.243] has joined #lisp 01:55:15 -!- knob5312 [~knob@66-50-188-37.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:55:44 knob5312 [~knob@66-50-188-37.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 01:57:50 -!- neoncortex [~Aerolitus@unaffiliated/xispirito] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:01:15 i recently reinstalled my linux, and cannot quickload 'elephant' any longer. OPERATION-ERROR while invoking # on # [Condition of type ASDF/BACKWARD-INTERFACE:OPERATION-ERROR] 02:01:27 any ideas? 02:01:33 arrsim` [~user@128.250.116.182] has joined #lisp 02:01:56 >backward that's a pretty accurate description of asdf 02:02:26 no clue what it's saying 02:02:44 it just says "uh oh, something bad happened" 02:03:02 try compiling the file yourself and see what it is in more detail? 02:03:03 "i don't know what it is, you human should take a look for it somewhere else" 02:03:39 the output/*inferior-lisp* output may give a clue 02:03:51 a clue like "you don't have the right -dev packages" 02:04:49 that must be it. i dont have the dev packages installed yet in archlinux 02:05:08 does archlinux even have dev packages? 02:05:49 well development packages. base-devel is a meta-package that installs gcc, gettext, etc. none of which i have yet 02:06:25 knob3212 [~knob@66-50-188-37.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:40 -!- knob5312 [~knob@66-50-188-37.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:07:19 yeah, that was the problem. thanks 02:08:01 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:16 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:08:23 I'm messing with reader macros - code I haven't touched in a year. 02:08:42 Could I trouble someone to remind me where reader macro functions are described in CLHS? 02:08:53 the chapter on the reader i think 02:08:55 Do they return multiple values or single values? 02:09:07 zero or one 02:09:22 anything else doesn't matter 02:09:28 Zero or one - got it - thanks. 02:09:59 Adlai` [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 02:11:09 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Disconnected by services] 02:11:11 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 02:16:55 Ooku [~Ooku@unaffiliated/ooku] has joined #lisp 02:17:55 knob5312 [~knob@66-50-188-37.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 02:19:04 Hi all. Looking for advice for a first approach to functional programming (procedural background, some exposure to functional principles in Mathematica) - are Lisp/Lisp derivatives the way to go? If so, which ones, and why? 02:19:26 Common Lisp isn't a terribly functional language. 02:19:38 Well, lisps are mostly procedural languages, but they had good support for a functional style of programming. 02:19:50 It might be a way to get your toes wet. 02:20:24 what are some common examples of "quite functional" languages? 02:20:33 the ml family 02:20:53 -!- knob3212 [~knob@66-50-188-37.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:21:45 OCaml? 02:21:50 that's one, yes 02:22:01 haskell and company 02:22:12 erlang sort of but not really. 02:23:26 is there a testing/logging hybrid library? 02:27:10 I want to use another destination besides t for format... because ideally I want a separate thing like *inferior-lisp* except that I want to read from it as well 02:28:05 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-onolhjsvjtlyyzli] has joined #lisp 02:28:28 pretty sure most of the test frameworks let you specify where to write to 02:28:34 failing that you can rebind *standard-output* of course 02:30:46 -!- bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: bgs100] 02:33:11 ok, now another problem. using the sexml package exactly as i did before the linux reinstall, now causes SB-KERNEL::CONTROL-STACK-EXHAUSTED. is there anything i can do? i'm using the library as exactly as it should be and cannot compile it 02:33:19 nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 02:34:26 knob3212 [~knob@66-50-188-37.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 02:35:01 -!- knob5312 [~knob@66-50-188-37.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:35:04 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:35:40 Bike: thanks! 02:37:28 zophy [~sy@host-180-21-2-96.midco.net] has joined #lisp 02:39:15 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-83-63.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 02:41:01 if I want in a package to have all symbols from other package to be accessible, and not only exported symbols, by even internal 02:41:24 what is the easiest way for this? 02:41:45 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-83-63.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:42:08 hi 02:42:31 -!- LiamH [~none@pool-173-73-124-231.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:43:03 ewxport all those symbols in a special package ? 02:43:42 export how? 02:45:13 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:31 -!- zenoli [~pk@109.201.154.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:45:38 -!- knob3212 [~knob@66-50-188-37.prtc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:46:22 zophy: do you mean iterate over all the symbols and export each? 02:49:44 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:51:58 sohail [~sohail@206-248-183-162.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 02:51:58 -!- sohail [~sohail@206-248-183-162.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 02:51:58 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 02:52:14 Gooder [~user@218.69.12.194] has joined #lisp 02:52:14 zenoli [~pk@109.201.154.147] has joined #lisp 02:59:11 -!- zophy [~sy@host-180-21-2-96.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:01:10 zophy [~sy@host-180-21-2-96.midco.net] has joined #lisp 03:03:14 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.225.171] has joined #lisp 03:03:14 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.225.171] has quit [Changing host] 03:03:14 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 03:05:53 -!- antonv_ [5d7d2a42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 03:06:18 -!- zophy [~sy@host-180-21-2-96.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:09:14 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-184-8.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:09:27 still wondering why i am getting both sbcl and ccl stack overflow error with previous working code under my new linux install 03:09:53 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-151-162.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:11:01 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:18:04 -!- awygle [~Andrew@50.46.151.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:19:08 awygle [~Andrew@50.46.151.244] has joined #lisp 03:27:46 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@171.217.0.180] has left #lisp 03:30:50 -!- zenoli [~pk@109.201.154.147] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:38:50 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:40:34 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:55 -!- travisr [~travisrod@ip-64-134-235-6.public.wayport.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:45:08 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 03:45:18 -!- ZC|Mobile [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:45:49 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:48:29 quotemstr [~quotemstr@dancol.org] has joined #lisp 03:48:38 I'm hacking on Emacs. Can a macro ever legitimately evaluate to a list with a number in its head? 03:48:57 We don't have multi-valued returns, so we don't have a way for macroexpand to indicate that it's already fully expanded its input. 03:49:33 I don't see why a macro can't do that. 03:49:42 So I'm thinking about extending the macroexpand protocol so that if it returns (1 . realform), we don't expand realform. 03:49:58 Zhivago: Because if you tried to evaluate that list, you'd fail. 03:50:01 you might want #emacs 03:50:22 i don't know how that would make sense, though 03:50:33 what's the evaluator supposed to do with a macro form it's not supposed to expand? 03:50:33 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:50:39 You can always see if it expands to itself. 03:50:51 Zhivago: Ah, EQ-itself? 03:51:52 Bike: The macro expander is responsible for fully expanding its input and returning a form made up entirely out of special forms. 03:52:07 Bike: We have a built-in tree walker, so macro implementations can (and often do) do that. 03:52:15 Well, EQUALS would be safer. 03:52:32 The trouble is that we then expand the result of that expansion, and expansion isn't always idempotent. 03:52:37 Once the expansion equals the original form, you know that it's terminal. 03:52:55 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 03:53:15 Well, if you have a macro that uses random numbers, I guess ... :) 03:53:23 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 03:53:31 Thanks. 03:56:30 -!- joast [~rick@cpe-24-160-56-92.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:57:37 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:57:43 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:00:05 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:03:01 -!- joe9 [~user@ip70-179-153-227.fv.ks.cox.net] has quit [Remote host 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has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:57:17 knob3212 [~knob@66-50-90-125.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 10:57:20 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 10:59:59 -!- knob [~knob@66-50-90-125.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:00:16 -!- shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-iwdaxwntyndicybc] has quit [Quit: shridhar] 11:00:31 shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-upltyodfeaqnenpc] has joined #lisp 11:03:39 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:04:07 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 11:05:50 -!- ZC|Mobile [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:06:59 I have a small problem using postmodern 11:07:20 (postmodern:sql (:limit (:select '* :from 'foo) 20 nil)) correctly expands without an OFFSET element 11:07:40 (let ((offset nil)) 11:07:40 (postmodern:sql (:limit (:select '* :from 'foo) 20 nil))) expands with OFFSET false which is incorrect 11:07:42 genkinodenki [~migrayn@dsl-vntbrasgw1-50dc7f-98.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 11:08:08 am I doing something wrong here ? 11:08:21 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:08:41 Has anyone seen libuv cl bindings? 11:08:47 I know about cl-async, which is libevent I think 11:09:17 libevent2 11:10:16 benkard [~benkard@2001:4ca0:0:f230:8cba:f56a:fe9f:fa6b] has joined #lisp 11:10:25 crap wrong second query, itwas (let ((offset nil)) 11:10:26 (postmodern:sql (:limit (:select '* :from 'foo) 20 offset))) but you get the idea 11:11:52 <|3b|> galdor: my guess is that SQL is a macro that expands before it knows the value of OFFSET 11:13:11 yes I guess so; my point is, is there a postmodern trick to get around this kind of issue; using variables in sql queries is quite important 11:14:04 -!- pillton [~user@58-7-192-143.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:14:11 <|3b|> you can use variables in the query easily, problem in this case is building the query differently depending on the variable 11:14:11 galdor: have you tried sql-compile? 11:14:48 *|3b|* would probably just let it generate an OFFSET in the query and set the variable to 0, but i suspect you could generate the whole query at runtime if you really needed it without 11:15:30 <|3b|> or do (if offset (sql (:limit 20 offset)) (sql (:limit ... 20))) 11:15:40 sql-compile did it, thank you 11:15:46 (let ((offset nil)) 11:15:46 (postmodern:sql-compile `(:limit (:select '* :from 'foo) 20 ,offset))) for reference 11:15:50 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:16:07 *|3b|* suspects that is the "generate query at runtime" option 11:16:10 I'll send a pull request to support LIMIT ALL when limit is NIL 11:19:26 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:22:24 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 11:24:02 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 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rk[wrkwrkwrk] 11:57:42 -!- nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:00:47 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:01:00 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 12:03:45 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@112.10.8.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:04:17 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 12:05:42 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:05:50 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:06:47 why would I be getting a "package swank does not exist" error after succesfully loading "swank-loader.lisp"? 12:07:03 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:08:28 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 12:09:17 doomlord [~doomlod@host86-184-9-223.range86-184.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:09:19 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:09:30 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 12:09:50 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c02b-45.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:09:54 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-98-217.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 12:11:21 isaacbw: is (ql:quickload :swank) successful ? 12:11:53 zRecursive: I was able to get it going with asdf 12:11:58 is ql an alternative to asdf? 12:12:17 it is quicklisp 12:12:55 and does it fill the same role that asdf does? I guess I should go read about it 12:13:45 quicklisp wraps asdf 12:13:49 isaacbw: quicklisp is built on top of asdf, asdf is a build tool, quicklisp is a package manager 12:14:23 if no quicklisp, then is (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :swank) successful ? 12:14:25 isaacbw: and yes9 you should definetely check it out and use it 12:14:28 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 12:14:47 zRecursive: yes it is 12:14:57 pavelpenev: ah okay. Thanks! 12:16:02 kiuma [~kiuma@88-149-253-162.v4.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 12:16:27 peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c02b-45.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 12:18:35 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:19:51 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:20:34 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 12:23:00 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@118.112.159.100] has left #lisp 12:25:29 awygle [~Andrew@50.46.151.244] has joined #lisp 12:28:38 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:29:35 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 12:29:43 -!- awygle [~Andrew@50.46.151.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:36:22 -!- matko [~matko@ip82-139-125-60.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:39:01 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-98-217.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 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has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:20:16 fridim__ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317373.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:22:50 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has joined #lisp 14:23:59 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.134] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:27:52 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:28:38 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 14:29:25 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:32:25 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@melontech.com] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 14:33:43 doomlord_ [~servitor@host86-184-9-223.range86-184.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:34:08 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-147-066-207.mycingular.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:34:36 normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-147-066-207.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:11 -!- Munksgaard [~philip@130.225.125.196] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:38:29 `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has joined #lisp 14:39:52 Munksgaa1d [~philip@130.225.125.196] has joined #lisp 14:40:14 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:41:44 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:42:03 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:30 Gooder [~user@125.37.178.83] has joined #lisp 14:44:03 -!- bitonic [~user@77-56-49-28.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:44:51 I hate it when I use UNLESS when I meant to use WHEN - UNLESS causes a cache miss in my brain. 14:44:57 kushal [~kdas@114.143.165.248] has joined #lisp 14:45:05 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.165.248] has quit [Changing host] 14:45:05 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:45:24 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-147-066-207.mycingular.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:45:52 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 14:47:53 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-46-188.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:53:41 -!- gleag [~gleag@71.175.broadband2.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: Odcházím] 14:54:10 -!- Munksgaa1d [~philip@130.225.125.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:54:20 -!- eeezkil [~eeezkil@unaffiliated/eeezkil] has quit [Quit: ^D] 14:55:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:57:44 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:26 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:51 -!- Aramur [~arare@213.Red-79-156-36.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Aramur] 15:04:35 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:04:57 -!- kilo [~kilo@unaffiliated/kil0] has quit [Quit: ..] 15:06:07 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 15:06:40 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 15:08:57 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:09:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.5.54] has joined #lisp 15:09:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.5.54] has quit [Changing host] 15:09:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:09:43 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 15:10:03 scampbell [~scampbell@mail.scampbell.net] has joined #lisp 15:10:15 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.209.113] has joined #lisp 15:10:15 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.209.113] has quit [Changing host] 15:10:15 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 15:10:27 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@88-149-253-162.v4.ngi.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:11:22 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:11:33 nipra [~nipra@122.177.223.131] has joined #lisp 15:11:44 is there a library to run and insert arbitrary lisp into HTML, like ERB for ruby? 15:12:34 travisr [~travisrod@173-13-144-65-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:55 walter|r [~walter@c-98-216-15-111.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:13 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 15:13:14 -!- walter [~walter@c-98-216-15-111.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:13:24 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:13:26 -!- gko [gko@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fe70:e605] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:13:39 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:50 -!- sbryant [freenode@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:fe93:e02d] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:14:35 nicdev` [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has joined #lisp 15:15:29 -!- foom [~jknight@2620:15c:6:14:be30:5bff:fedf:6db6] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:15:36 -!- nicdev [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:15:36 -!- yonkeltr` [~user@yonkeltron.new.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:15:36 -!- reb [user@nat/google/x-xmcmgtjyeqngviwj] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:17:16 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:17:38 -!- engblom [~user@unaffiliated/engblom] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:17:44 kiuma [~kiuma@81.174.46.3] has joined #lisp 15:17:55 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:18:06 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@181.164.152.177] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:18:43 danielszmulewi-1 [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has joined #lisp 15:19:16 oh wow, quicklisp is nice 15:19:28 -!- Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 15:19:31 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:56 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:20:23 Denommus: like cl-who? 15:20:54 Kruppe [~jcp@laforge.cs.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 15:21:16 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:21:40 Bike: you write lisp that transforms into html in cl-who. I'd like to write html that runs some lisp 15:21:57 parenscript? 15:22:13 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-fjjmcnqqonilwrsr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:22:16 i mean that doesn't really make sense, html doesn't "run" anything 15:22:22 Bike: like <%= (some-function-that-returns-a-string) %>, which is transformed on the server side 15:22:53 why on earth would you prefer an XML based syntax? :) 15:23:02 if the string is "Hello, World", the returned code is Hello, World 15:23:14 so you want php but with lisp, huh 15:23:19 capisce: because then I can make my designer write the views 15:23:23 aren't there list->html compilers 15:23:25 poor designer 15:23:53 Denommus: use a logic-less template engine then, like handlebars 15:25:14 Denommus: there is TAL 15:25:24 and HTML-TEMPLATE I guess. 15:25:55 that's just about the worst way to do things :P 15:26:02 Denommus: here's a nicer syntax for your designer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QML#Basic_syntax 15:26:21 oh, I love QML 15:26:23 keltvek [~keltvek@unaffiliated/keltvek] has joined #lisp 15:26:25 cl-mustache, too, though 15:26:32 but this will be a web application 15:26:46 Denommus: https://github.com/capisce/qml2js :p 15:26:50 Denommus: http://www.cliki.net/TALCL 15:26:53 Denommus: http://srodal.net/qml2js/ 15:26:55 capisce: I imagine that would get very hard to read with any sort of complex tree structure 15:27:23 with children being on the same visual level as attributes 15:27:37 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:27:45 capisce: hm, I guess I may use it. Great, thanks 15:27:46 isaacbw: not at all, they're quite visually distinct 15:27:57 Denommus: not sure I'd recommend it, it's a very unfinished prototype 15:28:08 but in an ideal world... 15:28:22 right now I'm working on something better 15:28:37 hm. I guess I'll end up using cl-who and writting the views myself, then 15:28:37 thanks for the ideas, though 15:28:40 Denommus: your designer will learn qml? 15:28:52 Denommus: btw, you should probably call this a "templating engine" rather than "html that runs some lisp" because the latter isn't remotely what's going on 15:28:55 foom [~jknight@2620:15c:6:14:be30:5bff:fedf:6db6] has joined #lisp 15:29:05 Denommus: i wouldn't go that route. 15:29:38 more designer friendly than html I'd say 15:30:14 Denommus: you're going to be stuck in Y2k-style websites. 15:30:22 he knows QML, too 15:30:22 he has designed some apps for meego, as incredible as it seems 15:30:35 hehe, interesting 15:30:55 Bike: yes, I know it is a template engine, but I wanted specifically something similar to ERB, not similar to CL-WHO. But that's okay 15:31:05 felideon: really? 15:31:15 -!- kentucky82 [~Kentucky8@185.25.87.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:31:23 askatasuna [~askatasun@181.164.152.177] has joined #lisp 15:31:26 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:31:34 Denommus: it wouldn't be that hard to make 15:31:44 oudeis [~oudeis@2.55.139.134] has joined #lisp 15:32:09 Munksgaa1d [~philip@80-71-132-106.u.parknet.dk] has joined #lisp 15:32:47 yes people should really build websites in a little known language called HTML. 15:32:57 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 15:33:00 (as a friend once said) 15:33:09 yeah, I guess I could manage to do it 15:33:12 I actually enjoy html :/ 15:33:13 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 15:34:00 after some exposure to qml html just feels so arcane and cumbersome 15:34:01 I have nothing against HTML. XHTML is the boring one 15:34:20 I have to agree 15:34:52 Denommus: TALCL would be similar to ERB. 15:34:53 ZabaQ [~ZabaQ@86.63.2.14] has joined #lisp 15:35:33 neo-lutheranism8 [~Neo-Luthe@185.25.87.35] has joined #lisp 15:35:43 felideon: I'm trying to open the examples, but my connection is horrible 15:35:43 felideon: thanks 15:35:58 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 15:36:46 not quite like ERB though. TALCL is more XML-ish. 15:36:48 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@2.55.139.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:39:16 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 15:39:22 TALCL is xml-ish, but can be used to create plain text or any other format (by wrapping the content in a node which is not rendered) 15:39:42 so while not quite ERB, I think it might make a reaonable replacement 15:40:10 -!- neo-lutheranism8 [~Neo-Luthe@185.25.87.35] has quit [Client Quit] 15:43:04 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:44:01 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 15:44:55 Anyone have a working CFFI example with defcstruct being used with translate-from-foreign? I'm failing to grok it from the docs alone... 15:45:13 _serial_ [~gareth@cpc1-york4-2-0-cust61.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 15:45:31 inobtainable03 [~inobtaina@185.25.87.35] has joined #lisp 15:45:55 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.64.222.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:46:27 kdas__ [~kdas@114.143.165.248] has joined #lisp 15:46:45 -!- _serial_ [~gareth@cpc1-york4-2-0-cust61.7-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:48:50 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:49:06 -!- kdas__ is now known as kushal 15:49:14 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.165.248] has quit [Changing host] 15:49:14 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 15:50:59 ISF [~ivan@187.64.222.94] has joined #lisp 15:51:25 Denommus: Im the author of TALCL, if you have any issues feel free to PM me, not around a whole lot, but my #lisp is usually open 15:51:33 -!- Gooder [~user@125.37.178.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:52:35 bobbysmith007: oh, thanks a lot 15:52:49 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 15:53:49 hitecnologys_ [~hitecnolo@46.233.228.139] has joined #lisp 15:55:20 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:56:38 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@176.62.103.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:58:45 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:59:11 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.64.222.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:01:25 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 16:02:54 -!- ltbarcly_ [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:02:59 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-237-029.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:03:12 ISF [~ivan@187.64.222.94] has joined #lisp 16:04:29 -!- sunnyPlix [~user@81.171.98.55] has left #lisp 16:05:48 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-83-63.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:06:29 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:07:31 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-151-162.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:08:07 persizzl [~persizzl@unaffiliated/persizzl] has joined #lisp 16:08:16 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-156-65.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:09:42 -!- paul0 [~paul0@189.114.195.162.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:09:47 paul0_ [~paul0@189.114.203.228.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 16:14:41 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:16:14 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-242-96.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:17:39 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:19:50 -!- hugod [~user@65.94.29.145] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:20:42 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:21:03 -!- hitecnologys_ is now known as hitecnologys 16:21:40 -!- travisr [~travisrod@173-13-144-65-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:24:51 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5B2B2091.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:25:54 -!- benkard [~benkard@2001:4ca0:0:f230:8cba:f56a:fe9f:fa6b] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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17:21:13 */lib 17:21:38 by configuring ld properly? 17:21:44 on what OS ? 17:22:14 if it's Linux then /etc/ld.so.conf should already contain /usr/local/lib 17:22:43 ah okay, archlinux 17:22:58 -!- zophy [~sy@host-180-21-2-96.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:22:59 which doesn't like /usr/local by default 17:23:20 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:23:35 -!- scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-71-167.catv.broadband.hu] has left #lisp 17:24:38 -!- mv2devnul [~markv@host-206-54-202-223.entouch.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:25:11 isaacbw: fix it 17:29:40 hugod [~user@65.94.29.145] has joined #lisp 17:30:47 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 17:31:25 Aramur [~arare@213.Red-79-156-36.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:38 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:34:07 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #lisp 17:35:32 cmack [~charlie@adsl-74-179-31-54.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:50 mv2devnul [~markv@host-206-54-202-223.entouch.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:16 -!- Munksgaard [~philip@80-71-132-106.u.parknet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:37:43 -!- shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-upltyodfeaqnenpc] has quit [Quit: shridhar] 17:38:18 Munksgaard [~philip@80-71-132-106.u.parknet.dk] has joined #lisp 17:40:25 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:41:19 zophy [~sy@host-180-21-2-96.midco.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:47 bananagram [~bot@198.64.14.95] has joined #lisp 17:47:32 been on the fence, maybe #lisp can help would it be more useful to write a multi-paxos implementation in pure-CL or create a wrapper + lib around a C implementation? the paxos protocol is somewhat non-trivial involving a sub-protocol to handle leadership election in the face of conflicts, etc. 17:49:17 state machine should be easy to write no? 17:50:18 oGMo: yes, paxos itself is pretty easy to do, it's synod that's a little tricky with it's per-thread stuff 17:50:31 (synod being the sub-protocol) 17:50:33 This is a difficult question and I propose we vote on that. 17:50:37 *gleag* ducks 17:50:43 gleag: heh 17:51:10 j_king: in part i think it depends on how quickly you want to use it 17:52:39 is it possible to use cffi with static libraries? 17:52:51 wait, what kind of question is that 17:53:17 isaacbw: It could be possible if someone bothered to write an in-CFFI linker. 17:53:31 but atm no? 17:53:31 doubtful 17:53:42 oGMo: it'd be nice to get a prototype done for summer projects, but not a huge requirement. it's partly for curiosity's sake and partly so I can start doing more work in CL. 17:53:53 So it's theoretically possible since the information required is in the .a file but it's sort of an unusual request. 17:54:03 j_king: could you write paxos on lisp and call out to synod for now? 17:54:04 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 17:54:05 oGMo: translation: I have as much time as I can devote to it. :) 17:54:09 in* 17:54:18 isaacbw: "what kind of question" is the right answer .. if you can link your lisp with the static lib, you can use it, otherwise .a's aren't suitable for runtime linking 17:54:31 gleag: the only reason I ask is that I have a library which I had to compile with -fPIC to get it to link properly into an .so, and I don't know what the consequences of -fPIC might be 17:55:00 j_king: well sounds suitable for implementing in lisp then rather than immediate need for something else 17:55:17 The consequences of -fPIC are that the resulting machine code is not of the idiotic kind. 17:56:13 -!- mv2devnul [~markv@host-206-54-202-223.entouch.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:56:14 will it muddle possible low-level optimizations in the library? 17:56:44 It shouldn't. What do you mean by "low-level optimizations"? 17:57:03 ikki [~ikki@201.165.168.17] has joined #lisp 17:57:08 I don't know. Sections of assembly? 17:57:19 actually I really doubt this library has any of that 17:57:34 nope it doesn't 17:58:14 PIC primarily involves branch targets, if I'm not mistaken. Anything else that could be affected by PIC/non-PIC has dynamic frequency too low to matter. 17:58:29 -!- jaimef_ [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:58:30 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:58:34 awesome, thanks! 17:58:35 (But I'm sure there are better experts on that than me.) 17:58:44 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:58:45 Bike: an interesting proposition. maybe? depends on the coupling of synod in libpaxos might be an avenue 17:58:48 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 17:58:51 I really wish I understood C compilation better 17:59:01 Heh, me too! 18:00:05 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.47.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:00:08 -!- cpape [~user@cpape.eu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:00:09 But branchless codes and basic blocks are essentially the same - registers are still registers, indirect loads are still indirect loads, this stuff is "PIC by nature" and thus unaffected by definition. 18:00:11 brown [user@nat/google/x-kimddlotnbmupwth] has joined #lisp 18:00:35 -!- brown is now known as Guest69099 18:01:15 -!- Guest69099 is now known as reb 18:01:35 cpape [~user@cpape.eu] has joined #lisp 18:02:12 ebobby [~fms@38.99.41.44] has joined #lisp 18:02:52 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-170-78-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:03:02 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 18:04:12 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:06:31 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 18:09:54 If by "branch targets" you mean jump as you would use to implement a loop, PIC doesn't affect those 18:10:13 IIRC global calls and variables references get a bit more expensive though. 18:12:13 mv2devnul [~markv@host-206-54-202-223.entouch.net] has joined 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has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:04:15 peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c02b-45.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 19:04:38 woo, got my first cffi binding working at least at a basic level 19:04:41 feels good 19:04:49 this library's API is some weird ass shit 19:05:01 Now, wrap it in a lisp shell! 19:05:01 -!- zophy [~sy@host-180-21-2-96.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:05:29 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:06:18 To check the type and validity of the arguments, check the result error code (or other error condition), and signal lisp errors upon any problem. 19:07:30 In lisp, you can pass random values to test a function: (car 32) and you get an error, enter the debugger, and select a restart to continue and try something else, like (car "abc"). But if you do the same with a C function, you just crash, and need to launch your lisp system again and reload everything. 19:08:28 -!- ZabaQ [~ZabaQ@86.63.2.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:08:53 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c02b-45.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:09:14 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-170-78-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 19:09:26 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 19:10:15 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@199.106.164.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:11:28 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@p5DC6158C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:12:24 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 19:13:59 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:15:25 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #lisp 19:18:00 zophy [~sy@host-180-21-2-96.midco.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:02 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:23:02 -!- zophy [~sy@host-180-21-2-96.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:23:31 zophy [~sy@host-180-21-2-96.midco.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:45 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-109-67-150-3.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:24:58 rvchangue [~rvchangue@cpe-075-176-097-238.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:25:05 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@cpe-075-176-097-238.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 19:25:05 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 19:25:43 pjb: in theory, but it can be pretty easy just to crash your lisp with lisp too heh 19:27:08 hiroakip [~hiroaki@37-4-164-85-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:29:35 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:31:21 Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 19:32:58 bitonic [~user@xdsl-188-155-179-93.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 19:36:15 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:38:33 rvchangue [~rvchangue@cpe-024-074-006-095.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:38:33 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@cpe-024-074-006-095.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Changing host] 19:38:33 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 19:39:11 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-203-73.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:41:25 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:43:32 ubikation [~ubikation@c-67-168-252-238.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:36 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-146-135.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:43:53 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@37-4-164-85-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:44:31 -!- zacharias_ is now known as zacharias 19:44:31 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:45:58 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 19:46:37 ldionmarcil [~maden@98.143.210.218] has joined #lisp 19:46:47 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@98.143.210.218] has quit [Changing host] 19:46:47 ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #lisp 19:48:05 arg, protobuf vs s-protobuf vs cl-protobufs, choices choices choices 19:48:12 hiroakip [~hiroaki@37-4-164-85-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:51:28 -!- zophy [~sy@host-180-21-2-96.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:52:15 zophy [~sy@host-180-21-2-96.midco.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:32 what would be a good way of returning arbitrary byte array data from a native binding (a key value store)? Should I just return an octet array and let the user process it from there, or should I wrap the native function with one which takes type information and do the transformation there? 19:52:45 smazga [~Adium@li336-165.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 19:52:45 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.165.168.17] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:53:18 e.g an :as-string argument, maybe 19:53:29 ikki [~ikki@201.165.168.17] has joined #lisp 19:54:53 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@71.22.108.187] has quit [] 19:56:06 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 19:57:42 -!- mv2devnul [~markv@host-206-54-202-223.entouch.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:58:37 l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has joined #lisp 19:59:08 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:59:36 -!- zophy [~sy@host-180-21-2-96.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:59:40 -!- l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has left #lisp 20:01:24 mv2devnul [~markv@host-206-54-202-223.entouch.net] has joined #lisp 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[~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 20:32:57 -!- ggole [~ggole@124-169-39-206.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 20:33:31 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Client Quit] 20:34:38 -!- persizzl [~persizzl@unaffiliated/persizzl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:35:17 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c1fw224.constantcontact.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:35:33 -!- scampbell [~scampbell@mail.scampbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:35:50 smazga [~Adium@li336-165.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:36:37 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:37:10 isaacbw: with cffi, I'd map the raw C API, and then I'd write a lisp layer to hide those C details, and convert everything to lisp data types and safety. 20:37:22 oGMo: in theory yes. 20:37:37 bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:38:42 -!- _d3f [~gnu@79.172.193.111] has quit [Quit: See you, soon!] 20:38:48 ikki [~ikki@187.208.234.253] has joined 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known as effy 21:25:37 -!- eff_ [~quassel@123.118.173.167] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:26:07 boily [~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:25 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-231-185.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:29:02 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:29:51 EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 21:31:12 ARGH ELISP 21:33:36 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 21:33:56 -!- rk[wrkwrkwrk] is now known as ryankarason 21:34:34 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@h-67-102-61-250.dlla.tx.megapath.net] has quit [] 21:35:02 nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 21:37:11 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 21:38:26 paul0__ [~paul0@189.115.61.66] has joined #lisp 21:38:34 mathrick: elisp is there -> #emacs 21:38:51 Now, in emacs, you can (load "emacs-cl") and go on programming in Common Lisp. 21:39:11 http://www.cliki.net/cl-emacs 21:39:21 This was surprising for me. I know that I have lists of integers, so I changed the defaults :test methods of `set-difference' and `union' from 'eql to '=. Things got slower. 21:39:49 -!- paul0_ [~paul0@189.114.203.228.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:40:06 = must test the types of arguments and be prepared to convert them to something comparable. 21:40:15 eql just check they're the same. 21:40:21 pjb: no I can't, because keywords are still named ":foo" and not "foo" 21:40:27 Cool stuff. 21:40:47 pjb: Can I declare the type of the elements of a list? 21:40:57 no 21:41:11 I see. 21:41:27 "list" in CL means "a cons terminated with NIL" really 21:41:28 you could, however, declare a specialized equality function 21:41:34 s0ber_ [~s0ber@1-164-211-50.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:37 *cons chain 21:41:43 (defun integer-= (a b) (declare (type integer a b)) (= a b)) 21:41:49 though that's pretty pointless, don't do it. 21:41:52 mathrick: Nope, (CL:SYMBOL-NAME :FOO) -> "FOO" 21:42:01 pjb: in elisp sir 21:42:03 Bike: Aaaah... I was excited for a moment. 21:42:05 which is why argh 21:42:12 mathrick: but my advice was to switch to CL. 21:42:39 which helps me immensely in writing emacs code! 21:42:56 I know about #emacs, I was just venting about elisp being so damn braindead and not-CL 21:42:57 writing code that runs in emacs. 21:43:16 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@36-224-96-142.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:43:23 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:43:27 You can call all the emacs operators from emacs-cl using the EMACS package. 21:44:10 -!- agumonkey [~agu@147.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:44:16 pjb: oh, hmm, I misread cl-emacs 21:44:32 doesn't help me in this case, because it's an existing package I'm patching 21:44:43 but it's interesting, lemme see 21:44:47 ok, legacy be legacy. 21:45:01 now, emacs-cl needs an upgrade to emacs-24 with lexical bindings. 21:45:23 There are several CL implementations that would need some love 21:45:25 where can I find this mythical emacs-cl though? 21:45:56 I assume you meant to link me to http://www.cliki.net/emacs-cl ? 21:46:22 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: session lost because continuation discontinued] 21:46:52 -!- Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:47:04 pjb: how does it fare with regard to speed and size compared to pure elisp? 21:47:28 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.47.101] has joined #lisp 21:47:30 elisp is already not the fastest environment out there, so more overhead is undesirable 21:47:30 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for is already not the fastest environment out there, so more overhead is undesirable. 21:47:46 wha? 21:48:25 specbot interprets "elisp ..." as a request for a manual lookup. 21:48:40 rule #1 of IRC bot programming: don't make them trigger on unadorned lines 21:48:48 mathrick, you summoned me :-) 21:48:49 -!- fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:49:08 rule #2: don't make them output unadorned lines, or else you're risking an infinite bot loop if #1 is violated 21:49:23 Fare: I did? 21:49:33 it's funny how nobody uses the irc-recommended way of having bots send notices. 21:49:47 mathrick know wrong answers for everything 21:49:48 actually I've seen many that do that 21:50:41 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.249.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 21:51:01 -!- maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:51:30 antonv, ok. mathrick: what combination not to play not to win the Massachusetts state lottery next week? 21:51:55 *mathrick* takes out his magic 8ball 21:52:03 Fare: anyway, how did I summon you? 21:52:09 "fare" 21:52:34 oh! 21:52:38 sorry :) 21:53:49 minion: what does boily stand for? 21:53:49 Bosomed Overbounteously Impugnment Logomachical Yeta 21:54:07 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:54:09 i like elisp. well it's sort of baroque. or rather baroque-en. it's like the zombie undead offspring of 1970s maclisp 21:54:36 I concur. 21:54:59 mathrick: well, it compiles to the same VM, so it's "honest". 21:55:11 elisp is better than many other things you could have (say, vimscript), but it's not a good lisp 21:55:11 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for is better than many other things you could have (say, vimscript), but it's not a good lisp. 21:55:16 oh ffs 21:55:33 But then, rewriting emacs in CL would let us compile emacs to native. 21:56:33 aren't there projects underway to have emacs run on top of guile? 21:56:37 pjb: there are better ways, like working on climacs. GNU Emacs is a giant hack and not particularly good a design, so if you're going that route, it's better to work on a sane implementation from the beginning 21:56:40 has anyone used cl-protobufs in combination with usocket streams? 21:56:49 Fare: it's been underway for the past, humm, decade or so? 21:57:07 -!- __stdout [~Nico@p549F45F7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: __stdout] 21:57:07 with several "emacs will switch to guile and nothing in the world can stop it" declarations I've seen out there 21:57:15 very funny to read a couple years later 21:57:19 more than that - but the guile author was making strides, lately. 21:57:41 or is that back to sleep? 21:57:50 right, the discussion I stumbled upon was the one in which KMP explained zmacs, so it was something like 1999? 21:57:52 guile now includes an elisp mode 21:58:02 but not an editor 21:58:02 Yes, we can probably make a better emacs in CL, without the baggage, and still including all the nice and useful emacs applications. 21:58:12 yeah 21:58:35 how can you include all the applications without the baggage? 21:58:35 a lot of elisp out there is "make emacs a less terrible environment" 21:58:40 But we risk of having only lispers using it, and all the other users using scheme-emacs. 21:58:42 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:58:42 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: ZzZ] 21:58:49 so the value of keeping strict compatibility with it is questionable 21:58:53 "backward-compatible: If it's not backwards, it's not compatible" 21:59:11 yet more is useful functionality, but sadly broken by contortions necessary to make it work under emacs 21:59:11 Fare: features are not proportional to legacy LoC. 21:59:22 Fare: heh, how true 21:59:40 ASDF gave me an idea of what backward-compatibility means 21:59:52 I mean, we can imagine a better newsreader than GNUS. 22:00:06 But nobody uses newsreaders anymore, anyways, so why bother. 22:00:17 Fare: in the sense of actually keeping all code out there running, or in the sense of moving forward with a minimal, but non-zero upgrade effort for legacy code? 22:00:38 mathrick, either / both. 22:00:45 We can imagine a better emacs, but nobody uses emacs anymore, so why bother. Eclipse, woo. ;p 22:01:22 even if you're ready to make sacrifices, you soon find that you're pretty constrained, and that the least innocuous-looking incompatible progress becomes extremely costly. 22:01:34 Fare: what does ASDF2/3 do? IIRC, it's "well-behaved code with just DEFSYSTEM is expected to work as is; if you did strange things with DEFMETHOD, not so much"? 22:01:55 mathrick, as far as I understand, ASDF3 is an elaborate way to do nothing. 22:02:06 is it? 22:02:07 but to do nothing in a portable way. 22:02:14 *mathrick* confused 22:02:27 are any of the lisp machine emacsen/editors/whatever in the wild? 22:02:53 they're probably part of the machine images, i guess 22:03:06 i mean in source form that could be ported to common lisp 22:03:07 macdice: somewhat. Opengenera can be set up reasonably; in fact I'm working on a much more seamless VM out of a cookbook 22:03:12 it locates, compiles and load code in the correct order, so your software you want is available in the current Lisp image. 22:03:13 oh 22:03:25 -!- boily [~boily@mtl.savoirfairelinux.net] has left #lisp 22:03:27 KMP did a port of ZWEI to CL, called TRE 22:03:34 but that was Symbolics CL 22:03:40 macdice: yes - but just try to pull one thread, and soon... 22:03:50 which makes it not exactly out of the box runnable on SBCL for example 22:03:51 Fare: guilemacs is the name of Emacs On Guile, and it's active. 22:04:17 Fare: that's not "nothing" 22:04:20 is guilemacs related to the work done in guile to support e-lisp, or a separate effort/? 22:04:46 macdice: I think it's part of it. 22:04:47 mathrick, parts are in Zetalisp, including the lower layers of the windowing system and probably ZWEI. 22:04:50 wasn't Guile itself on a hiatus for a very long time? 22:05:00 Fare: TRE was CL 22:05:00 mathrick: Not that I know. 22:05:09 lordlicorice_ [~owls@unaffiliated/lordlicorice] has joined #lisp 22:05:10 *TRES 22:05:13 i look forward to a bizarre soup of lisp-1 vs lisp-2, #t/#f/() vs t/nil 22:05:20 -!- par [~owls@unaffiliated/lordlicorice] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:05:21 There's always edwin, the MIT/GNU Scheme text editor. 22:05:25 also it relies on objects that are combined data structures and vectors, IIUC 22:05:33 nialo [nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:05:36 the thing about gnu emacs is that it's not a ghetto 22:05:48 i tried using edwin 22:05:56 it was a very lonely and sad experience 22:05:58 -!- inobtainable03 [~inobtaina@185.25.87.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:05:58 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:04 Fare: I'm not sure symbolics CL had that, but it might have depended on the symbolics CL port of flavours 22:06:04 I was kidding, nobody should ever use edwin. 22:06:29 well i probably only spent an afternoon in it before i couldn't take it any longer 22:07:22 the thing about gnu emacs is that it's not a ghetto <-- yes it is 22:07:29 gnu emacs is the ghetto editor 22:07:37 there's (portable) hemlock, or CLIMACS. 22:07:38 pretty it ain't, but it works 22:07:55 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:08:16 zophy [~sy@host-180-21-2-96.midco.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:24 there was efuns in ocaml, and something in erlang. 22:08:26 inobtainable03 [~inobtaina@185.25.87.35] has joined #lisp 22:08:42 there's the racket editor, too 22:08:43 https://groups.google.com/d/msg/comp.lang.lisp/Dq52-8B3Vk4/-51Bk2lRTF0J <-- TRES 22:08:45 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5B2B2091.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:02 -!- add^_ [~user@m37-3-57-152.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:09:27 Fare: IIUC, Climacs is really meant to replace both (portable) hemlock and goatee by having what they both are good at and being portable 22:09:49 one of these days I will hunt drewc down and making him hand over the CVS repo so I can cvsps it at the source 22:10:22 in the meantime, cvssuck + cvsps == https://github.com/mathrick/climacs 22:11:02 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 22:11:09 mathrick: not hard to do -- fire him an email 22:11:19 I'm sure he'll be happy to hand you the keys. 22:11:37 aye, I just don't want to sink myself with yet another distraction 22:11:42 see? 22:11:48 I've been doing very well sinking in what I already have 22:12:16 Is there a paper/documentation file describing graphically the geometry used in gsharp? 22:12:36 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:12:51 I also need to check if rstrandh ever published the CLIM3.0 paper 22:13:18 -!- zophy [~sy@host-180-21-2-96.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:13:24 mathrick, even if it's just a repo conversion, I'm sure he'll be glad to make you the new non-maintainer. 22:13:31 he's one of the people who did most real work with mcclim and on climacs 22:13:43 Fare: aye, I just need to limit the scope of what I do 22:14:01 There's DREI in McCLIM. 22:14:05 right now I'm perfectly busy fighting opengenera VM, and more distractions will kill me 22:14:27 pjb: yeah, Climacs is largely a UI + definitions for DREI 22:15:00 so a lot of Climacs development was *not* adding things to Climacs and getting them into McCLIM / DREI instead 22:15:21 which is another bump when considering taking up Climacs, because McCLIM is just ugh 22:15:31 and I don't feel brave enough atm 22:15:52 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@181.164.152.177] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 22:15:56 at least quicklisp makes it possible for mere mortals to get a running McCLIM 22:15:59 I haven't fired an opengenera vm since I last tested ASDF 3.0 or so -- is it still working there? I'm told some of the uoip directory primitives were woefully inefficient on genera. 22:16:05 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:11 uoip? 22:16:49 Utilities for OS- and Implementation- Portability -- formerly known as asdf-driver or asdf-utils. 22:16:59 ah 22:17:03 the portability layer used by ASDF. 22:17:09 no clue, never tried to run ASDF on OG 22:17:21 Please try, someday. 22:17:23 Fare: btw, are you not the maintainer of ASDF3? 22:17:31 not anymore 22:17:36 I resigned. 22:17:51 first I'll need to master Genera enough to be able to run CL on it at all :) 22:17:56 Fare: ah, who took over? 22:18:59 Robert Goldman. 22:19:07 *macdice* is trying to figure out where on earth to find an "RPC-PACKAGE" to use with CL-PROTOBUFS 22:19:22 I still help a bit, explaining where I screwed up when a bug report comes in. 22:19:38 (sometimes, fixing it because it's easier than explaining) 22:20:55 macdice: heh, we've moved to "if it isn't in QL, it doesn't exist" now 22:21:00 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-242-96.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:21:10 Xach's world domination is thus complete 22:21:32 normanrichards [~normanric@12.185.76.29] has joined #lisp 22:21:51 though I'm proud that bug reports are pretty minor, lately. 22:22:34 ASDF 3 is solid technology, that would have wowed any software engineer from the late 1970s. 22:23:32 macdice: "It is beyond the scope of this Protobufs library to provide the RPC service; that is the domain of another library." 22:23:36 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c02e-96.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:24:14 foom: hmm 22:24:53 so we have 3 competing protobufs implementations in QL. one requires you to build a bunch of native stuff to use it, and the other two don't know how to talk to a socket 22:25:20 i guess i'll go for the "build the C++ stuff" option then! 22:25:49 or i suppose i could man up and be the person that supplies the RPC impl 22:26:44 macdice: I'm surprised any cl protobuf library provides "talk to a socket". The C protobuf lib doesn't provide that 22:26:53 There's no "standard" protobuf RPC mechanism. 22:27:21 -!- Munksgaard [~philip@80-71-132-106.u.parknet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:27:39 at Goog, I believe we use a CL wrapper to our C++ RPC libraries. 22:27:58 nothing publishable 22:28:08 I was surprised to learn of CL at Goog, but then I remembered that ITA was a part of Goog now 22:28:12 really? so you don't use cl-protobufs, published by... you? 22:28:14 Google has its own internal RPC library, which wasn't open sourced with protobuf. 22:28:16 -!- LiamH [~healy@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:28:24 macdice: cl-protobufs is a protobuf library, NOT an RPC library 22:28:40 oh sorry i see 22:28:46 As you may have noticed, it has hooks for attaching it to an RPC library. 22:28:54 heh, yeah ok all making sense now 22:29:56 mathrick: It is: http://google-styleguide.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/lispguide.xml 22:30:25 so how are objects frames on the wire? 22:31:15 oh man, I didn't know Dan Weinreb died :( 22:31:18 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 22:32:11 here is what i am confused about: proto:deserialize-object-from-stream seems to know how to read enough bytes for a complete message, but it refuses to read from a usocket stream. i can go ahead and do my own usocket reads but how is the data framed? how many bytes do i read? 22:32:22 mathrick: You're only slightly (a few months) less attentive than I am! 22:33:06 Although, in my defense, I was semi-offline for a long time. One opens ones eyes after a long time and just stares as the changes. 22:34:27 Fare: "Some guidelines where once motivated" <-- *were 22:34:29 hm, what's special about a usocket-stream? 22:34:46 Fare: in http://google-styleguide.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/lispguide.xml?showone=Conventions#Conventions 22:34:47 maybe you just need to open the stream with :element-type '(unsigned-byte 8)? 22:35:32 oh, just kidding, looking at the code...it calls (file-length stream) 22:35:45 haha, that's an evil thing to do in a function called ...-from-stream. 22:35:48 mathrick, I'm also not maintaining that anymore :-/ 22:35:49 useful 22:35:49 -!- tertl3-laptop [~tertl3-la@75.139.64.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:36:04 -!- smazga [~Adium@li336-165.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:36:12 Fare: aw, you can still file a ticket or something way easier than I can 22:36:13 -!- __main__ [~main@50.240.210.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:36:29 Fare: what do you work on these days then? 22:37:36 __main__ [~main@50.240.210.73] has joined #lisp 22:37:57 yeah, it's not made for streams in general. it seems like that interface is useless. i need to somehow figure out how many bytes to read myself, which seems non-trivial as it's a variable length encoding requiring knowledge of the schema... the very work i wanted this library to do for me 22:38:02 dsevilla [~user@175.Red-83-54-234.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:12 Fare: also assuming you do file anything, the expander for the "Old Code" section doesn't work. I can trigger it with the big arrow, but clicking on it as such does nothing 22:40:03 There's nothing else in that section to expand. 22:40:32 mathrick, I'll fix it and ask the maintainer to review, easier than opening a bug 22:40:55 foom: missing a maybe ? 22:42:08 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@12.185.76.29] has quit [] 22:42:31 Dunno how the machinery is supposed to work, but it seems to have only a

, not a

and . 22:43:17 yup, adding that 22:45:18 *macdice* facepalms: messages are preceded by their length, so i can read byte arrays then decode them! 22:45:43 that -FROM-STREAM shit was put in there by googlers to throw me off the trail 22:46:33 pillton [~user@140.253.50.147] has joined #lisp 22:47:40 rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:49:27 -!- arrsim` [~user@128.250.116.182] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:51:19 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ejohnson] 22:52:30 " If you don't know or don't care about these issues, ask someone who does. " 22:52:35 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:23 arrsim` [~user@128.250.116.182] has joined #lisp 22:57:02 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.47.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:03:50 -!- inobtainable03 [~inobtaina@185.25.87.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:03:56 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:33 inobtainable03 [~inobtaina@185.25.87.35] has joined #lisp 23:07:04 -!- Aramur [~arare@213.Red-79-156-36.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:07:43 agumonkey [~agu@147.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:12 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-241-18-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:12:12 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 23:14:04 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:15:43 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:20:08 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:20:26 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:23:02 -!- keltvek [~keltvek@unaffiliated/keltvek] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:25:18 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 23:27:16 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 23:27:35 At the expense of repeating myself: could anyone point me to a CFFI example showing DEFCSTRUCT (with :CLASS obtion) and the use of a TRANSLATE-FROM-FOREIGN method? 23:27:58 To my surprise, googling has not revealed one. 23:29:12 rpg, does the documentation even suggest that there is a :CLASS option? 23:29:23 -!- danielszmulewi-1 [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewi-1] 23:29:48 Quadrescence: the documentation is not consistent, but the code shows that it is there, and the documentation suggests that it's required to use TRANSLATE-FROM-FOREIGN with a cstruct. 23:29:59 \join #stumpwm 23:30:00 Hang on, and I can dig up a doc pointer. 23:30:36 http://common-lisp.net/project/cffi/manual/html_node/Foreign-Structure-Types.html 23:30:42 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has joined #lisp 23:31:17 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:31:27 It's not entirely clear to me what this :CLASS argument is for -- perhaps because we can't EQL dispatch on '(:STRUCT FOO)? 23:31:41 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:32:12 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.249.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:32:14 ah I see 23:32:51 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.165.168.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:33:33 -!- dsevilla [~user@175.Red-83-54-234.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:34:36 I would have thought that lots of people would be making special translators to read information out of c structures computed for them by C libraries, but perhaps not. 23:35:03 *rpg* is becoming increasingly convinced that he is making use of corner cases of CFFI... 23:35:46 rpg, For what it's worth, my use of CFFI over the past couple of days has lead me to believe CFFI still has rough edges and things aren't so clearly defined. 23:35:51 I was just trying to simplify the process of tracing through complex networks of c structures by translating them into Lisp structures, instead of wrestling with the plists. 23:36:22 I may just be using some of the bits less commonly used. 23:36:29 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-109-67-150-3.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:36:34 This topic isn't touched on in the tutorial, either. 23:37:30 I think cffi is designed to make you feel like you're always in a corner case 23:38:40 rpg, the first few methods here sort of give a feel of what the methods should look like https://github.com/cffi/cffi/blob/master/src/structures.lisp 23:39:29 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 23:40:22 ragnul [~rjain@66-234-32-156.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 23:42:29 I guess here's the source with the class stuff. Not really sure why it's defining a new class https://github.com/cffi/cffi/blob/master/src/types.lisp#L669 23:42:46 Quadrescence: One of the things I didn't understand about this is that it seems to want me to write (convert-from-foreign ptr 'foo), but then CFFI nags me about not using '(:struct foo). 23:43:31 rpg, I thought CFFI nags not to use 'foo, and to use '(:struct foo) instead. 23:44:11 Quadrescence: Yes, that's what I was saying, in a roundabout way. But of course, you can't EQL dispatch on '(:struct foo), so the error doesn't really make sense. 23:44:25 right 23:46:03 Quadrescence: if you look at line 79 of the first of those files, that suggests a possible reason for having the :CLASS option. 23:46:51 Looks like I should be using DEFINE-TRANSLATION-METHOD instead of DEFMETHOD.... 23:46:56 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 23:47:16 -!- gleag [~gleag@71.175.broadband2.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:48:21 Actually, no. The manual specifically talks about using :AROUND methods to turn the PLISTs into something more friendly, but DEFINE-TRANSLATION-METHOD won't let me create an :AROUND method. 23:49:07 -!- antonv [5d7d2a42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:49:07 I bet the recommendation to use the :CLASS option is intended to make this thing work out: (class-name (class-of (cffi::parse-type `(:struct ,type))) 23:50:39 I guess I could just use CALL-NEXT-METHOD. 23:52:59 rpg, I guess the :CLASS option is just to provide a name that the methods could dispatch off of, and has nothing to do with the actual data type you want to convert to/from 23:55:06 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 23:55:26 Quadrescence: Well, I think actually the :CLASS name is somehow linked to the CFFI defcstruct. I know this because in my attempts to use the :CLASS option I keep getting errors about the class name not being known as a CFFI class. Also if you look at DEFINE-TRANSLATION-METHOD, it uses that class as a *real* class, and not as an arbitrary name (i.e., it does not EQL dispatch). 23:55:48 It's all very bewildering, which is why I was hoping someone had a piece of example code I could cargo-cult. 23:56:50 Quadrescence: my class declarations all go pear-shaped in FIND-TYPE-PARSER in https://github.com/cffi/cffi/blob/master/src/early-types.lisp 23:57:01 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:36c6:d400:d98b:91cf:7bd1:55da] has joined #lisp 23:57:17 rpg, Also, I couldn't find an example anywhere either. 23:58:09 OK, so this may simply not work. 23:58:59 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:59:28 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:59:51 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has joined #lisp