00:00:09 Are any CFFI devs in here? I'd like to suggest adding a data type definition for pointers. The only thing I can see doing from a user standpoint is to do a (satisfies pointerp) which isn't really conducive to anything but safety. 00:00:39 ASau [~user@p4FF96B66.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 00:00:58 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 00:01:36 what's wrong with cffi:foreign-pointer? 00:02:32 stassats, I'm looking in the manual and I don't see it. Maybe I missed it. 00:02:46 >manual, there's your problem 00:03:04 Actually, it's in section 7.1. 00:03:15 (but I only found that from searching the page. :) 00:03:16 Thanks. 00:04:15 -!- agumonkey [~agu@147.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:09:52 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:10:26 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:10:27 Next, if I have some pointer to allocated memory, and that's wrapped up in a Lisp object, is there a way I can automatically call a function on that pointer (namely a deallocation function) when the object is garbage collected? It seems like finalizers in trivial-garbage would work, but that seems to require that I add a finalizer for every object of that struct type that I make, and I can't actually refer to the object in the finalizer proced 00:10:27 ure. 00:10:58 anyone have an idea why the SSEs generated by http://pastebin.com/HHs09HZU are accepted by Firefox, but error in /Chrom(?:e|ium)/? 00:12:26 Quadrescence: you don't need to refer to it in the finalizer 00:13:02 stassats, I guess I can just refer to the slot value? 00:13:27 just close over the pointer itself, no? 00:13:49 Quadrescence: i don't understand what you're trying to do 00:14:37 stassats, (defstruct wrapper pointer), pointer is a CFFI pointer. When a wrapper object gets collected, I want the data allocated by pointer to be freed as well, for all allocated wrappers 00:14:57 so just have make-wrapper register the finalizer? 00:15:57 That is what I thought, but I was wondering if there was a seemingly more efficient way of doing it as opposed to registering a finalizer on every allocation. 00:18:35 there isn't 00:19:06 -!- paul0 [~paul0@179.223.183.203] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:19:44 okay 00:20:33 you're thinking of, like, a by-class hook? 00:21:14 travisr [~travisrod@173-13-144-65-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:35 Andrevan [~andrevan@wikipedia/Andrevan] has joined #lisp 00:24:53 Bike, yes 00:26:48 This is what I've got now: https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/cl-mpfr/raw/0ee800ea94e644f2fc8658a7f68bb11907853e03/big-float.lisp 00:28:21 -!- ASau [~user@p4FF96B66.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:28:42 -!- Aramur [~arare@213.Red-79-156-36.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Aramur] 00:28:44 -!- arare [~Aramur@153.68.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: arare] 00:29:34 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.102.67.43] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:30:43 ASau [~user@p4FF96B66.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 00:31:23 walter [~walter@c-98-216-15-111.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:34:51 -!- BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:36:45 Quadrescence: why not (pointer (cffi:null-pointer) :type cffi:foreign-pointer)? 00:38:30 Yeah I changed that. 00:39:20 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.160.222.82] has joined #lisp 00:40:38 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5B2B30BA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:46:06 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:52:54 nialo [~nialo@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:57:01 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-242-96.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:58:22 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:01:55 -!- inaimathi [~inaimathi@bas1-toronto61-1279435856.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:04:43 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-83-63.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:05:45 jrajav [~jrajav@66-188-183-116.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:11:44 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@109.67.150.3] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 01:12:47 oudeis [~oudeis@109.67.150.3] has joined #lisp 01:13:37 -!- shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-uyfztfjceddsbmmn] has quit [Quit: shridhar] 01:13:52 http://pastebin.com/YBWKGJZT 01:13:57 ^says invalid number of arguments 01:14:00 where am I derping 01:15:27 well, in many places 01:15:32 I'm sure 01:15:43 first, you're using the macro you're defining inside itself 01:15:59 is that bad practice or flat out won't work? 01:16:29 it won't work 01:17:43 http://i.imgur.com/biaiFB7.png 01:17:48 ^I'm basically trying to write that 01:18:00 it's a js implementation of lisp 01:18:20 that translate left side to right 01:19:00 I was surprised when he did a recursive macro and the stupid thing worked 01:19:21 who did what? 01:19:30 <|3b|> possibly you want to expand to a call to the macro? 01:19:46 a friend of mine dicking around with lispyscript 01:20:49 <|3b|> also, that looks a lot more like optional args (in cl terms) than "required" 01:21:55 this way of displaying code looks so overloaded 01:22:12 what do you mean? 01:23:23 <|3b|> also, does that macro even work right when multiple arguments are "undefined"? 01:23:26 carriage return, a descender, line numbers, colored parenthesis 01:24:13 only thing I don't like about it is carriage return 01:25:31 <|3b|> and keep in mind that NIL in CL is different from "undefined" in js (which is why CL &optional has syntax to distinguish between NIL being passed, and value being passed) 01:25:44 <|3b|> *and no value being passed 01:27:10 descenders would probably also look crazy if I looked at it too long 01:27:32 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-116-5.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 01:29:30 eugh, writing wrapper libraries gets tiring after about an hour 01:38:57 inaimathi [~inaimathi@bas1-toronto61-1279435856.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:39:31 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.160.222.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:44:50 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.197.25] has joined #lisp 01:48:25 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@66-188-183-116.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 01:49:40 Yes. I like the use of undefined in js -- it handles those issues and unbound in a unified fashion. 01:51:54 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 02:01:34 aw [~zacharias@unaffiliated/aw] has joined #lisp 02:04:08 -!- aw|incendiary_ [~zacharias@unaffiliated/aw] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:07:07 jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:08:47 BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has joined #lisp 02:08:51 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:09:49 sohail [~sohail@206-248-183-162.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 02:09:49 -!- sohail [~sohail@206-248-183-162.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 02:09:49 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 02:11:55 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:17:58 fraktor [~walt-crun@174-19-76-251.omah.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:19:10 -!- MasseR [~masse@82.192.74.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:22:55 -!- inaimathi [~inaimathi@bas1-toronto61-1279435856.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:23:15 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:24:10 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:25:16 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-167-219.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:25:26 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-175-170.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:32:22 does anyone use cl-llvm? is it maintained? 02:38:53 nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-245-1.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:42:00 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:42:26 i'm using format to output data across a list - i'd like to stick an operand in the format recipe that prints an increasing integer count - is there such a thing? 02:42:59 sohail [~sohail@206-248-183-162.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 02:42:59 -!- sohail [~sohail@206-248-183-162.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 02:42:59 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 02:43:16 so if i print '(a b c d) i could shove something in my format "~{~a~^~}" to print "1 a \n 2 b \n" & so on 02:44:43 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: patrickwonders] 02:45:09 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:28 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 02:46:22 inaimathi [~inaimathi@bas1-toronto61-1279435856.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:47:21 This may be a stupid question. 02:47:41 Is there any way to write a bom to a non-binary stream? 02:47:56 tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has joined #lisp 02:47:56 -!- tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has quit [Changing host] 02:47:56 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 02:49:15 CADD [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has joined #lisp 02:52:38 I guess that's a "no" then? 02:54:11 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 02:59:38 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:03:50 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:05:30 tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has joined #lisp 03:05:30 -!- tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has quit [Changing host] 03:05:30 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 03:10:02 -!- gmcastil [~user@ip-64-134-151-85.public.wayport.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:11:48 -!- fraktor [~walt-crun@174-19-76-251.omah.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:13:02 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:21:24 desophos [~desophos@n138h11.dhcp.oxy.edu] has joined #lisp 03:23:18 sorry inaimathi i'm not quite sure how you mean 03:24:17 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:24:29 inaimathi: What is exactly written in files, be it binary or text files, is always implementation dependant. 03:25:20 Even for binary file, it's just by pure chance that hard disks store vectors of 8-bit bytes, and that implementations just write the raw bytes on POSIX system when you use :element-type '(unsigned-byte 8). 03:25:33 But in the case of text files, it's mediated by the :external-format parameter. 03:25:51 So if your implementation let you specify thru :external-format that the file format should take a BOM, then you win. 03:25:57 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:26:30 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-26-145-60.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:27:09 If not, you may still be able to write objects of type character that will produce the binary pattern of a BOM, or else, perhaps you will be able to switch to binary element type, write the bytes that will produce the binary pattern of a BOM, and switch back to character element type. See also flexi-streams. 03:28:31 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-173-59-25-58.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:29:20 is there a way to do line-wrapping with FORMAT? 03:29:21 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-151-8.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:29:21 Now, while the question may not be stupid, the choice to use UTF-16 might be. 03:29:46 robot-beethoven: with ~< ~>, and other format specifiers to do pretty printing. 03:30:07 But if you want to justify a paragraph, it'll be easier to write a specific function to do it. 03:30:57 robot-beethoven: see also ~_ 03:31:13 tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has joined #lisp 03:31:13 -!- tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has quit [Changing host] 03:31:13 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 03:32:46 -!- inaimathi [~inaimathi@bas1-toronto61-1279435856.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:32:53 one of these days i'm going to study the cl pretty printer in full 03:35:01 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-26-151-8.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:35:31 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-151-8.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:37:17 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-26-151-8.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:38:28 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-98-217.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:41:15 Yes, that's one of the parts I've not dived in yet. 03:41:58 This and ~_ variants doesn't seem to work, it prints a single line: (format t "~80<«~@;~@{~A ~_~}~;»~:>" (split-sequence-if (lambda (x) (find x #(#\space #\newline))) (com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.file:text-file-contents #P"~/tmp/misc/wang") :remove-empty-subseqs t)) 03:45:45 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-83-63.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:48:41 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-142-112.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:53:24 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-246-180-47.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:54:25 sykopomp` [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 03:56:37 -!- zenoli [~pk@109.201.154.145] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:56:55 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:57:14 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 03:57:38 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:03:40 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:04:18 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 04:06:21 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:06:38 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:06:50 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-98-217.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 04:07:06 -!- ragnul [~rjain@66-234-32-156.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:07:08 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 04:08:10 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@109.67.150.3] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:11:57 I know there must be a way to tell sbcl to place my fasls somewhere else. I currently just have the default setup with sbcl, quicklisp, slime. I dont like that it by default it is putting the fasls in same directory as the source files for my project. Im sure there is an easy way to change this. My google-foo is failing me :( Any ideas? 04:12:47 asdf manual has a section on it, i think 04:15:18 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.38.121] has joined #lisp 04:15:36 nightshade427: http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf.html#Controlling-where-ASDF-saves-compiled-files 04:22:29 These fasls are from C-c C-k in slime I think. 04:24:11 nightshade427: did you try what google finds with "slime fasl location"? 04:24:50 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:25:03 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:25:23 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-98-217.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:26:25 (setq slime-compile-file-options '(:fasl-directory "/tmp/slime-fasls/")) 04:27:15 found it ;) 04:29:15 Worked like a charm. 04:31:26 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:32:54 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:32:55 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:33:41 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 04:33:46 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:34:48 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 04:34:49 ragnul [~rjain@66-234-32-156.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 04:36:47 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 04:39:34 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-26-142-112.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:41:01 -!- desophos [~desophos@n138h11.dhcp.oxy.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:41:12 alezost [~user@128-70-203-73.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 04:44:25 -!- bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: bgs100] 04:47:17 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:47:25 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:51:35 -!- walter [~walter@c-98-216-15-111.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:54:40 jrajav [~jrajav@66-188-183-116.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:55:43 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:00:32 -!- travisr [~travisrod@173-13-144-65-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:02:05 -!- sykopomp` is now known as sykopomp 05:08:00 -!- arbscht_ [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:09:38 sdemarre [~serge@26.66-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 05:10:04 nightshade427: nice. One could use (slime-temp-directory) to avoid hardcoding a path 05:11:56 PuercoPop: thanks, even better ;) 05:15:22 arbscht_ [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 05:16:05 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-83-63.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:16:22 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-83-63.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:18:06 nug700 [~nug700@70-58-115-86.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:18:57 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@66-188-183-116.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 05:22:32 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:25:01 -!- peccu2 [~peccu@KD106179020073.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 05:27:59 travisr [~travisrod@173-13-144-65-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 05:28:10 -!- eli [~eli@racket/eli] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:31:14 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 05:31:18 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:31:54 -!- macrobat [~beep@h-199-47.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 05:32:48 jewel [~jewel@105-236-146-135.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:35:02 -!- travisr [~travisrod@173-13-144-65-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:36:36 holycow [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has joined #lisp 05:47:58 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 05:48:32 peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c02b-45.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 05:49:09 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 05:54:37 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-146-135.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:00:49 -!- nydel [~nydel@ip72-197-245-1.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: quit] 06:01:04 -!- sabra [~sabra@67.174.222.215] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 06:03:50 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:03:51 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:05:24 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 06:08:37 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:09:00 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 06:11:21 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 06:24:52 MasseR [~masse@82.192.74.13] has joined #lisp 06:26:35 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has joined #lisp 06:26:56 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has quit [Client Quit] 06:33:25 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:57:16 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:58:56 Munksgaard [~philip@80-71-132-106.u.parknet.dk] has joined #lisp 06:59:11 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 06:59:38 _d3f [~gnu@79.172.193.111] has joined #lisp 07:00:37 -!- CADD [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:01:43 MoALTz_ [~no@host86-131-149-75.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 07:03:34 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-142-125-80.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:05:38 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:17:42 hi guys 07:18:54 i am running stumpwm window manager with multithreaded sbcl. when i compile a graphical app that renders a bunch of simple things (say spinning lines) in a small window the entire environment seems to slow down including rendering of videos playing in a browser. 07:19:21 the compiler is not thread-safe, it stops the world 07:20:23 are there any implementations that are? not a biggie, just curious 07:22:18 no idea. i don't think it's really been a design priority for anyone other than nikodemus's attempt with sbcl. 07:22:37 could you compile it using a separate process? 07:22:57 then load it in the first 07:23:08 capisce: oh, that is an interesting question. 07:23:13 honestly i don't think it's a great idea to use the lisp that's running stumpwm for other things 07:23:26 -!- Munksgaard [~philip@80-71-132-106.u.parknet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:23:43 capisce: never tried, i guess time to google how to do that. 07:24:43 what's to google? just run an sbcl 07:25:10 i thought slime would have started another sbcl. 07:25:12 let me try that 07:25:20 tertl3-laptop [~tertl3-la@75.139.64.89] has joined #lisp 07:25:46 hi, im looking for a lispm emulator to run on my peecee 07:26:16 holycow: if you run slime without specifically connecting to stumpwm it'll probably be a different lisp process, yes 07:26:57 well, i just started the app using a separate sbcl process. it still slows stumpwm / apps down 07:27:17 uload average .06 07:27:34 no problem, at least i know what to worry about later on 07:27:35 something like opegenera ? 07:27:37 thanks for the info 07:27:42 <|3b|> you might be using X inefficiently, or just loading it too much 07:27:51 you're just running it, not compiling it, and in a seprate process anyway. well, i have no idea, assuming your program isn't terribly inefficient 07:28:08 tertl3-laptop: "pc" as in windows? 07:28:19 -!- sdemarre [~serge@26.66-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:28:37 Bike yes or linux 07:28:46 i just want to try it out 07:29:15 https://github.com/ynniv/opengenera 07:29:21 ive seen the symbolics stuff 07:29:23 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:29:41 Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 07:29:57 this is some scripts you can use to run an opengenera image nicely. i haven't tried them myself. 07:30:31 nipra [~nipra@122.177.195.55] has joined #lisp 07:36:18 is opengenera available? 07:36:38 wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 07:38:23 i dont know what is vagrant 07:38:36 its a vm? 07:40:10 it works with vms 07:41:13 i wonder if that git is is up to date 07:41:47 the world of lispm development isn't exactly fast moving 07:43:50 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-24-165-131.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:44:22 heh I kinda noticed 07:44:31 most projects are from 2005 07:46:46 cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-20-206.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 07:47:02 goes that git work for the Alpha cpu genera? 07:47:41 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 07:47:47 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:47:55 i think that's the general idea 07:48:08 though again i haven't tried any of this and don't much care about lispm 07:51:14 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 07:53:47 i think the the scrpit fetches the image for me 07:53:51 cool 07:54:03 i will try this ti=omoorow and probablu fail 07:54:29 i will be using a vm to run a vm :\ 07:54:44 to run a vm 07:54:54 ad infinitum 07:55:30 the script does not fetch the image 07:55:47 it says "This does not include genera" right there 07:56:46 oh ok 07:57:03 i just thought since there was links in the code 07:58:40 ah well 07:59:19 thanks for helping....ive also been tinkering with write yourself a scheme wikibook 07:59:29 -!- Guest63395 [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:59:40 gabnet [~gabnet@ACaen-652-1-177-224.w86-215.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:04:18 -!- tertl3-laptop [~tertl3-la@75.139.64.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:04:56 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:06:21 foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-099-225-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:07:30 Guest63395 [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 08:07:35 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 08:07:44 guest5150 [3294a258@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.148.162.88] has joined #lisp 08:09:31 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:11:28 -!- guest5150 [3294a258@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.148.162.88] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 08:12:50 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-98-217.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:17:30 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-98-217.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:22:01 -!- wchun [~wchun@81-232-46-25-no38.tbcn.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:23:12 ggole [~ggole@124-148-114-93.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 08:29:35 -!- gko [gko@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fe70:e605] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:31:02 gko [gko@2400:8900::f03c:91ff:fe70:e605] has joined #lisp 08:32:30 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:35:34 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:37:31 -!- doomlord_ [~doomlod@host81-147-97-126.range81-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:37:37 -!- MasseR [~masse@82.192.74.13] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:38:33 doomlord [~doomlod@host81-147-97-126.range81-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 08:38:36 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has joined #lisp 08:39:03 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 08:39:29 ccorn [~ccorn@d12016.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 08:40:05 teggi [~teggi@113.173.4.29] has joined #lisp 08:45:14 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.173.4.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:45:45 maxter_ [~maxter@recordness.overtime.volia.net] has joined #lisp 08:48:15 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:48:30 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 08:48:50 teggi [~teggi@113.173.4.29] has joined #lisp 08:53:47 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-98-217.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:56:36 hitecnologys_ [~hitecnolo@176.62.110.81] has joined #lisp 08:56:36 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.38.121] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:56:59 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 08:58:54 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-98-217.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:59:00 -!- foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-099-225-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:59:53 foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-099-225-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:00:21 hiroakip [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-214-140.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 09:02:14 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:02:35 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:04:42 is there a way to get sbcl to verify types on slot assignment? 09:05:32 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:05:58 nm, safety 3 09:06:21 arrsim [~user@27-32-235-88.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:09:18 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 09:10:20 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:10:27 -!- aw is now known as aw|incendiary 09:10:42 keltvek [~keltvek@unaffiliated/keltvek] has joined #lisp 09:11:14 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 09:12:59 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-98-217.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:13:33 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-002-082.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:15:28 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 09:20:02 -!- ggole [~ggole@124-148-114-93.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:23:44 l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has joined #lisp 09:24:21 -!- l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has left #lisp 09:25:16 agumonkey [~agu@147.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 09:25:29 arnsa [arnsa@78-63-18-208.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 09:26:16 -!- ferada [~ferada@37.221.196.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:26:25 ferada [~ferada@37.221.196.86] has joined #lisp 09:29:37 -!- nug700 [~nug700@70-58-115-86.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 09:33:12 ggole [~ggole@124.150.37.50] has joined #lisp 09:34:02 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host86-131-149-75.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: brb] 09:34:22 MoALTz [~no@host86-131-149-75.range86-131.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:35:11 is there any concept of a typed list? 09:35:27 as in (for vectors) (vector double-float 100) 09:36:06 ltbarcly, not built in but you can make one 09:36:44 but it won't be very effective for optimizing your code if that's what you're aiming for 09:37:19 I just want it to be enforced 09:37:58 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@d12016.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 09:38:14 -!- hpd [~hpd@hpdeifel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:39:11 hpd [~hpd@hpdeifel.de] has joined #lisp 09:40:39 Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5B2B2267.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:41:02 -!- ggole [~ggole@124.150.37.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:43:42 -!- milosn [~milosn@cable-178-149-0-183.dynamic.sbb.rs] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:44:27 ltbarcly_, then write a function "ensure-list-of-type" or so 09:45:15 ccorn [~ccorn@d12016.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 09:46:00 -!- holycow [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:47:32 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:50:07 -!- arnsa is now known as arnas 09:50:10 -!- arnas [arnsa@78-63-18-208.static.zebra.lt] has quit [] 09:50:30 arnsa [arnas@78-63-18-208.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 09:50:52 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:53:42 ggole [~ggole@124-148-248-63.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 09:55:45 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 09:56:02 gleag [~gleag@71.175.broadband2.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 09:58:06 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 10:00:38 sdemarre [~serge@26.66-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 10:00:59 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@ACaen-652-1-177-224.w86-215.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 10:04:05 -!- maxter_ [~maxter@recordness.overtime.volia.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:05:18 -!- sdemarre [~serge@26.66-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:06:03 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:03 -!- ics [~ianclarks@ool-18bf6d86.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:06:38 I would like to have a method that dispatches to a less specialized method, is this possible? 10:06:52 in other words, my inheritance goes A -> B -> C 10:07:07 and I would like the method on C to call the method defined for B 10:08:09 so superclass call, something like that? 10:10:38 ahh, call-next-method 10:14:02 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:14:35 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:14:43 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 10:14:58 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:15:30 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 10:17:43 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:19:32 sdemarre [~serge@109.134.141.152] has joined #lisp 10:21:13 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@94.159.217.23] has joined #lisp 10:26:52 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5B2B2267.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:27:30 pillton [~user@58-7-192-143.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:28:55 -!- foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-099-225-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:30:36 foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-099-225-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:31:26 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@94.159.217.23] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 10:33:48 Does anyone know of an example where the setf expander for (setf (a place) value) requires PLACE to be a place too? i.e. the setf expander for A calls the setf expander for PLACE. 10:34:21 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@94.159.217.23] has joined #lisp 10:36:58 -!- foeniks [~fevon@dslb-188-099-225-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 10:37:47 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@94.159.217.23] has quit [Client Quit] 10:41:49 pillton: Isn't that the usual case? I thought that's how they're supposed to be written in the first place. Doing anything else would limit their utility, given how you can arbitrarily combine data structures (image a hash table of vectors). 10:42:03 "imagine"... 10:43:05 so if I have a list like '((type desc)(type desc)(type desc)), and I want to take some object and return the first desc in the list where (typep object 'type) is true, what is the best way to do it? 10:43:18 clearly I could use return-from, but there is probably a nicer way? 10:43:38 DeadTrickster [~dead@62.122.188.214] has joined #lisp 10:43:51 alternatively I could call defmacro in a loop I guess 10:44:01 I mean defmethod in a loop 10:48:12 -!- agumonkey [~agu@147.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:50:04 maxter_ [~maxter@recordness.overtime.volia.net] has joined #lisp 10:50:14 gleag: Nested data structures does not fit the description. The only information required to change an element of a vector is the vector itself. 10:51:31 gleag: I think of it like performing the following: (setf (a place) 0 place 1). 10:52:36 That doesn't make sense to me. 10:52:55 That's the same thing as (progn (setf (a place) 0) (setf place 1)), isn't it? 10:53:07 is there some way to specialize a method dynamically? like if I have (setf x 'sometype), (defmethod ((a x))... 10:53:32 so what I mean is, without specifying the actual class name in the specializing lambda list 10:53:44 gleag: Yes. 10:54:37 gleag: I think I have answered my own question. 10:54:59 pillton: You've mentioned "i.e. the setf expander for A calls the setf expander for PLACE." That means that "A" is not an indefinite article as it may have seemed but a form, right? 10:55:32 That would make it a perfectly normal recursion of places, which is what I've been saying from the start. 10:55:34 gleag: Yes. You are right. 10:56:48 gleag: No, what you said before does not fit. (setf (aref (getf hash-table :hello) 0) value) does not call the function (SETF GETF). 10:57:05 gleag: GETHASH, not GETF. 10:57:45 You sure about that? I'd consider the thing broken if that didn't happen. 10:58:52 gleag: Why is it broken? You aren't changing the vector stored in the hash table. You are only changing an element of the vector. 10:58:53 Because, as I said, the utility of a "single-level expansion" would be tremendously limited. 10:59:15 Of course you are, that was the point, wasn't it? 11:01:50 gleag: The example above is no different to performing (let ((a (getf hash-table :hello))) (setf (aref a 0) value)) 11:02:28 Ah, I see what you were pointing at: You don't need to do this in this particular case. What about, say, (setf (ldb (byte 4 2) (aref vec 0)) 0) ? 11:03:09 gleag: Brilliant. Thank you. 11:04:21 gleag: Bah. So obvious. I blame the wine. 11:05:08 pillton: Native applications are always better! :) 11:05:34 genkinodenki [~migrayn@dsl-vntbrasgw1-50dc7f-98.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 11:07:26 pillton: Don't use Wine! ;) 11:07:58 Ah, wrong window, sorry everyone! 11:08:16 well it's true here too 11:09:18 DeadTrickster: Yeah, but just because it was parenthetical doesn't mean that it was lispy. 11:09:37 yeah, no open paren, i know 11:09:52 and that one was commented 11:12:15 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 11:13:04 -!- pillton [~user@58-7-192-143.dyn.iinet.net.au] has left #lisp 11:13:22 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.173.4.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:15:54 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 11:23:25 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host81-147-97-126.range81-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:28:43 arnas [arnas@78-63-18-208.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 11:28:45 -!- arnas 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15:48:12 -!- Guest10548 [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-184-8.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:48:30 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 15:48:55 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 15:54:16 Bike_ [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 15:54:43 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:54:44 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 15:55:12 askatasuna [~askatasun@181.164.152.177] has joined #lisp 16:00:49 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-231-120.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:17 oloe [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-184-8.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:01:21 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 16:01:27 -!- Tanami [~carnage@9ch.in] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:01:48 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 16:01:58 -!- oloe is now known as oleo 16:02:14 -!- nipra [~nipra@122.177.195.55] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:03:21 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:51 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-147-066-120.mycingular.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:05:47 chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:09:16 Guest63395 [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 16:09:24 francogrex [~user@29.89-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 16:10:33 Oorei [~other@94.25.228.9] has joined #lisp 16:10:35 Hello. 16:11:08 why do some implementations crash if we free a pointer twice? 16:12:05 Can i (ql:quickload :alexandria) and call functions from alexandria without prefix? E.g (iota 10). I don't want in-package since i'm already in another packge at the time i need alexandria. 16:12:10 free() twice is undefined, why are you doing that 16:12:13 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-102-217.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:12:20 Oorei: use alexandria in your package 16:12:58 bike not on purpose, but how come some crash and some just don't care ? 16:13:27 It's not defined what they should do. 16:13:30 it's undefined, implementations probably don't worry about it much since it's a stupid thing to do 16:13:30 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75e29f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:40 Some of them go to additional effort to find your bugs, and some don't. 16:13:42 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 16:13:56 Bike: no, i can't do that, is there other options' 16:14:00 ? 16:14:06 Oorei: why can't you do that? 16:14:09 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 16:14:32 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-83-63.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 16:15:02 i notice ECL just doesn't care, SBCL, CCL they send you (a one way ticket) into the low level debugger 16:15:21 Bike: it's a stumpwm config file im working on 16:15:38 how extensive are your tests? it's possible you just don't happen to corrupt the heap with one double free 16:15:51 Oorei: there's no harm in using alexandria in stumpwm-user 16:16:34 francogrex: I bet you could find plenty of situtations where ECL cared, too. It may depend on how much happens between the two free() calls and what compiler options the Lisp was built with. 16:17:15 patrickwonders: ok. not a big deal, just wandering. brb. see you later. 16:17:34 -!- francogrex [~user@29.89-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:18:03 Bike: okay, so there is no builtin(into quiclisp) method to not quialified import? coming from haskell and there you can import quialified modules, or not qualified modules without bother 16:18:22 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 16:18:34 Oorei: quicklisp doesn't do that, the package system does. use-package does what you want. 16:19:01 -!- par [~owls@unaffiliated/lordlicorice] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:19:02 implementations are not concerned with free, it's implemented by libc 16:19:12 and libc usually sends a sigabrt 16:19:13 Bike: good, thanks 16:19:16 par [~owls@unaffiliated/lordlicorice] has joined #lisp 16:19:38 i haven't checked whether sigabrt is blockable 16:20:04 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:20:19 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 16:22:19 looks like you can't block only sigkill and sigstop 16:23:04 Blocking SIGABRT doesn't seem like the best idea... 16:23:22 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:24:04 blocking/handling 16:24:10 seangrov` [~user@213.191.38.10] has joined #lisp 16:26:12 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-242-96.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:26:36 oudeis [~oudeis@109.67.150.3] has joined #lisp 16:27:38 l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has joined #lisp 16:27:52 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.249.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:28:21 -!- Posterdati [~kvirc@host103-221-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:28:34 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 16:29:01 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 16:30:14 -!- l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has left #lisp 16:30:37 Posterdati [~kvirc@host103-221-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:31:23 l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has joined #lisp 16:32:12 and ECL actually doesn't actually call free twice 16:32:31 on cffi:foreign-free 16:33:26 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:34:54 doomlord [~doomlod@host86-184-9-223.range86-184.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:35:03 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:36:34 -!- l_ [~l@84.233.246.170] has left #lisp 16:36:36 and francogrex left a long time ago.. 16:36:52 -!- p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:39:15 walter [~walter@c-98-216-15-111.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:11 nialo [~nialo@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:30 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 16:47:09 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 16:47:58 travisr [~travisrod@173-13-144-65-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:20 is it possible to find out how many characters (read) consumes? 16:50:09 file-position perhaps... 16:50:17 p_l [~pl@tsugumi.brage.info] has joined #lisp 16:50:30 file-position is usually in bytes 16:50:56 chameco [~samuel@74.69.188.107] has joined #lisp 16:51:13 you mean it won't work for unicode? 16:51:19 yes 16:51:38 well, in this case I'm using read to read a number, I guess those don't contain unicode 16:51:40 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:52:09 read is no good for reading numbers 16:52:18 minion: parse-number? 16:52:18 parse-number: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/parse-number 16:53:02 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c02b-45.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:53:17 parse-integer 16:53:31 parse-integer is no good at reading numbers at all 16:53:40 thanks 16:54:03 as it works only for integers 16:54:20 It's the only parse- that you get in the box. 16:54:33 (Of course, you aren't wrong.) 16:55:29 -!- chameco [~samuel@74.69.188.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 261 seconds] 16:56:11 chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:56:34 would be useful if it accepted a stream though 16:56:57 now I have to figure out where the number ends first :p 16:58:16 and it doesn't tell me how much of the string it consumed 16:59:02 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:59:20 you can probably modify it to do both 17:01:12 "The second value is either the index into the string of the delimiter that terminated the parse" 17:01:16 Sounds like what you need? 17:01:46 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:01:58 ah 17:02:38 ggole: that doesn't sound like it, since that is for parse-integer 17:03:08 That's what I was discussing. 17:03:34 too bad that's not what capisce was discussing 17:04:42 -!- travisr [~travisrod@173-13-144-65-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:05:01 yeah sorry, I need real numbers too 17:05:21 capisce: and that's how i understood it 17:05:33 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:46 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:05:59 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:37 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:07:20 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 17:08:04 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:08:32 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:39 cdidd [~cdidd@95-24-235-75.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 17:10:22 -!- Oorei [~other@94.25.228.9] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:11:36 -!- ashish [having@badti.me] has quit [Quit: We are all in the gutter, but some of us are dreaming of butter. 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Like, when should define functions within functions versus separate functions depending on one another? 18:41:38 ^simple* 18:41:41 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [] 18:43:30 it's a pretty subjective thing, i think 18:43:56 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@246.50-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 18:46:22 when you can't be bothered to pass all the parameters and it's pretty short 18:47:00 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:49:34 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:51:37 -!- maxter_ [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:55:05 Global functions are theorems, and local functions are lemmas. :) 18:55:50 Separate functions are easier to test and debug. 18:56:40 Is there a similar function to push, but for several items so I can append a list of items to another list and replace that list? 18:58:02 (list* a b c list) 18:58:13 no places 18:58:30 Or append, if you want to... uh, append 18:59:37 francogrex [~user@29.89-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 19:00:39 I was wondering if there was one like push, (push 1 3 4 mylist) and have mylist be (1 3 4 a b c) 19:01:27 There's no push* 19:01:33 But you could write one simply enough. 19:01:47 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:02:10 okay was just wondering if I missed something in clhs about one, thanks ;) 19:02:45 normanrichards [~normanric@216.23.215.142] has joined #lisp 19:02:45 didnt see one so figured I would ask 19:03:10 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:03:12 http://paste.lisp.org/display/138996 I didn't realize that the ~x could work on vectors, but can it do the padding on the vectors as well ? 19:03:41 -!- Aramur [~arare@213.Red-79-156-36.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Aramur] 19:05:26 ~x just binds *print-base* and then prints the vector with ~a 19:05:49 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/22_cbb.htm explains how to do padding and stuff, though 19:06:35 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:05 (defmacro push* (&rest args) (let ((place (car (last args))) (elements (butlast args))) `(progn ,@(mapcar (lambda (element) `(push ,element ,place)) (reverse elements))))) 19:07:09 I'd say. 19:08:00 yep: (let ((l)) (push* 5 6 7 8 l) (push* 1 2 3 4 l) l) -> (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8) 19:11:10 -!- mv2devnul [~markv@host-206-54-202-223.entouch.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:11:18 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:11:55 paul0 [~paul0@189.114.195.162.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 19:12:31 I was thinking an expansion in terms of list* 19:12:33 no, real push* would use list*, instead of ten pushes, get-setf-expansion 19:12:45 ianclarksmith [~ianclarks@ool-18bf6d86.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:45 -!- ianclarksmith is now known as ics 19:12:55 (defmacro push* (&rest args) (let ((place (car (last args)))) `(setf ,place (list* ,@(butlast args) ,place)))) 19:13:48 ggole: (list* ,@args) works too, but still no get-setf-expansion 19:13:56 -!- tertl3-laptop [~tertl3-la@75.139.64.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:14:27 Er, yeah 19:14:41 (What was I thinking there?) 19:15:02 (why get-setf-expansion is needed? try (push x (aref x (print 20))) and this push*) 19:16:37 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 19:17:09 mv2devnul [~markv@host-206-54-202-223.entouch.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:03 Right, I was too hasty to assume that place could be ignored for purposes of evaluation order 19:19:32 is there an already existing lib to offer emacs-lisp filenames facilities to CL? and maybe the buffer API too? 19:19:33 not just order, the amount of times it's evaluated 19:19:59 dim: why would you subject yourself to such punishment? 19:20:54 while it's true that being proficient with that particular API took some time, I found it way easier to learn and reason about that anything I found in CL, including standard pathnames API and cl-fad 19:24:30 vantage|home [~vantage@246.50-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 19:24:31 vantage|2 [~vantage@246.50-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 19:25:20 -!- paul0 [~paul0@189.114.195.162.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:25:37 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:52 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@246.50-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Client Quit] 19:25:58 walter [~walter@98.216.15.111] has joined #lisp 19:25:58 paul0 [~paul0@189.114.195.162.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 19:26:00 do you think it is possible to write a foreign function interface in lisp portably - implementation, (and maybe OS- and architecture-independant)? I don't mean a wrapper on implementation specific FFIs (such as cffi and uffi) but the actual underlying FFI itself? 19:26:34 -!- vantage|2 [~vantage@246.50-242-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:27:12 that doesn't even make any sense 19:29:10 why not if all in standard lisp and nothing else 19:29:29 LiamH [~none@pool-173-73-124-231.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:42 it just cannot be done without using implementation specific functionality 19:32:01 -!- par [~owls@unaffiliated/lordlicorice] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:32:17 par [~owls@unaffiliated/lordlicorice] has joined #lisp 19:33:36 -!- neoncortex [~Aerolitus@unaffiliated/xispirito] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:36:03 -!- _d3f [~gnu@79.172.193.111] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 19:37:26 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-203-73.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:38:34 Neoncortex [~Aerolitus@unaffiliated/xispirito] has joined #lisp 19:38:51 maxter_ [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:06 benkard [~benkard@tmo-110-30.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lisp 19:41:28 nug700 [~nug700@70-58-115-86.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:16 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:42:49 francogrex: How would you do it? It's impossible. What if the HW isn't even C-friendly? 19:45:37 -!- paul0 [~paul0@189.114.195.162.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:45:49 bitonic [~user@xdsl-188-155-179-93.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 19:46:00 paul0 [~paul0@189.114.195.162.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 19:49:04 on a lisp machine maybe 19:51:02 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:40 I believe that anything that separates the return stack and the data stack in hardware is C-unfriendly. 19:51:50 Forth chips, for example. 19:51:52 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 19:52:44 lol 19:53:13 use a CPU emulator to run the foreign code 19:53:18 -!- benkard [~benkard@tmo-110-30.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:53:29 What? Forth chips are perfectly suited for running Lisp, Prolog, and similar languages, and very efficiently in fact. 19:53:31 chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:53:48 macdice: That's exactly what the Symbolics C compiler did with C code on the lisp machine. 19:54:06 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-14-77.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 19:54:17 It simulated a C machine's memory by operating on a large array or something like that. Brrrrrr.... 19:54:24 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:54:33 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:58 interesting 19:56:35 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:57:19 can't find the reference, but i have a funny feeling that C on lisp machines had a weird 'null pointer' 19:57:30 which was really a pointer to NIL or something 19:57:48 weird as in, not all bits zero 19:58:51 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-242-96.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:59:54 http://c-faq.com/null/machexamp.html <-- there 20:00:15 i had often been baffled by this factoid, and it now makes slightly more sense, if it was some kind of emulator anyway :-) 20:00:31 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:04:47 desophos [~desophos@n138h11.dhcp.oxy.edu] has joined #lisp 20:05:17 CrazyEddy [~teacher@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 20:06:04 Vivitron [~Vivitron@50.172.44.193] has joined #lisp 20:08:10 ggole: stassats: the problem is with places that have side effects. Indeed, a multiple push solution would require dealing with get-setf-expansion. But we can avoid it with an auxiliary modifier macro: https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/source/5e89d06ba1efa1295ae7e0f2be300ae00a08c3d4:common-lisp/cesarum/list.lisp#L91 20:09:42 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:10:03 This is what I've got in terms of get-setf-expansion http://paste.lisp.org/display/138999 20:10:20 Hard to love code like that :/ 20:10:46 pjb: I hope you didn't update your file just now because of the guy asking a question here 20:13:13 -!- francogrex [~user@29.89-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:16:25 minion: memo for francogrex: of course I did. That's how most of that library came to be: to refer the next newbie to it later. 20:16:25 Remembered. I'll tell francogrex when he/she/it next speaks. 20:17:03 -!- CrazyEddy [~teacher@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 20:17:59 ggole: why not. the get-setf-expansion / setf mechanism is beautiful. 20:18:27 O_o 20:18:34 Must be an acquired taste. 20:19:58 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:22:17 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:26 ASau [~user@p5797EFEE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:24:38 -!- ggole [~ggole@124-148-248-63.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 20:25:43 sohail [~sohail@206-248-183-162.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 20:25:43 -!- sohail [~sohail@206-248-183-162.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 20:25:43 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 20:27:06 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:41 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-66-30-11-90.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:30:32 ikki [~ikki@187.208.163.24] has joined #lisp 20:32:08 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:35:54 -!- par [~owls@unaffiliated/lordlicorice] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:38:04 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:41:41 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:43:37 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:46:33 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:48:07 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:51:02 par [~owls@unaffiliated/lordlicorice] has joined #lisp 20:53:23 m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.228.184] has joined #lisp 20:57:06 is there a way to take SOMESYMBOL and produce :SOMESYMBOL without going through a string as an intermediary? 20:57:26 there's no intermediaries 20:57:32 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 20:57:43 (intern (symbol-name symbol) :keyword) is the way 20:58:14 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:58:32 thanks 20:59:02 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 247 seconds] 20:59:23 CrazyEddy [~hypodynam@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 21:02:22 ltbarcly_: notice that symbol-name will probably NOT cons a new string. 21:06:34 does this have an issue with double-evaluation: (defmacro instruction-slot (slot-name) `(,slot-name :initarg ,(intern (symbol-name slot-name) :keyword))) 21:07:07 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.249.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 21:07:08 I want to say no, because it's just evaluating it to a symbol-name? 21:07:08 there's no evaluation at all 21:07:12 right 21:07:14 ok cool 21:07:24 (if that's intended for defclass) 21:07:27 yea 21:07:42 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@ip-178-202-214-140.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:07:53 ltbarcly_: this won't work. 21:07:58 oh? 21:08:02 (but i hope you know that you can't use this instruction-slot in defclass) 21:08:02 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:08:07 defmacro doesn't evaluate the list of slots or the slots definitions. 21:08:07 directly 21:08:13 s/defmacro/defclass/ 21:08:22 oh, right, I'm going to use this in a macro def-instruction 21:08:28 which should expand out to a defclass? 21:08:37 ltbarcly_: you'd better use a function. 21:08:50 ltbarcly_: a macro expands a form into a form. a form = executable sexp. 21:08:58 awygle [~Andrew@50.46.151.244] has joined #lisp 21:09:15 ltbarcly_: a slot definition is not an executable sexp, unless the slot name happens to be also a function name that takes the other slot definition parameter as arguments 21:09:20 quite unlikely. 21:09:42 So, instead of instruction-slot macro, write a generate-instruction-slot function. 21:09:59 ahh 21:10:08 and then you can write: `(defclass  ,(mapcar (functionl generate-instruction-slot) slot-names) ) 21:10:15 s/nl/n/ 21:11:01 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 21:11:12 Aramur [~arare@213.Red-79-156-36.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:20 would it be possible to do it with instruction-slot as a macro if it uses conditional evaluation in the macro that uses it? 21:11:43 or is the problem the mapcar? 21:11:51 You can expand the macro explicitely, but there's no reason to go this hop. It's just easier with a function. 21:11:53 since mapcar can't take a macro? 21:11:55 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:11 The problem is that defclass just does not evaluate the slot definitions! 21:12:11 ok, I see what you mean (I think) 21:12:25 the slot definitions are not code. 21:12:40 so they can't be expanded from a macro, because macros only deal with code. 21:12:46 macro = code to code. 21:12:46 oh, right 21:13:00 ja 21:13:04 so it would just be trying to make slots called instruction-symbol over and over 21:13:07 macro = producing forms 21:13:08 The think is that fragments of code are not code. 21:13:24 not evaling forms 21:13:35 For example, in (+ 1 2), + is not code, it cannot be obtained from a macro. 21:14:08 ? 21:14:10 oh, because it would be an illegal sexp? 21:14:27 Or a better example, in (let ((a 1) (b 2)) (+ a b)), ((a 1) (b 2)) is not code. It cannot be obtained from a macro. 21:14:40 (let (binding a b) (+ a b)) cannot work. 21:14:51 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has joined #lisp 21:15:03 because let doesn't evaluate its first argument. It takes it as it, and parses it as a list of variable bindings. 21:15:20 -!- disassembling28 [~disassemb@185.25.87.85] has quit [Quit: disassembling28] 21:15:21 It a legal sexp, but an illegal form. 21:15:24 is this why clojure has all those square brackets? 21:15:28 sexp = data + code ; form = code. 21:15:41 Well, I'd prefer not to discuss clojure. 21:15:50 heh 21:15:56 pjb++ 21:16:04 But indeed, they tend to use vectors for syntax instead of lists. 21:16:10 I just mean if you used some other symbol for sexp that are not forms, then macros could tell whether to evaluate or not 21:16:18 ccorn [~ccorn@d12016.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 21:17:24 That could be a way. I'm not sure it would be 100% reliable. In lisp, we use macro-function to know if an operator is a macro and macro-expand to expand it and go on walking it, plus a defined set of special operators whose syntax is known. 21:19:01 I guess it would be a matter of changing the special forms to be aware of this syntax, other macros could support it or not 21:19:12 Since let is a special operator, a macro that finds it, can know that the second subsexp is a binding list, each binding is either a symbol naming a variable, or a list of a variable name and an expression to be evaluated, and the cddr is a list of expressions to be evaluated. 21:19:26 -!- eeezkil [~eeezkil@unaffiliated/eeezkil] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:19:41 ltbarcly_: well if you want to have fun, you can always define your own package with your own operators using vectors, etc. 21:19:53 I don't know how fun that will be 21:19:56 Be sure to define a reader macro, in CL, vector literals are read by default with #(  ). 21:19:58 I'm having enough trouble as it is 21:20:21 kentucky82 [~Kentucky8@185.25.87.85] has joined #lisp 21:20:23 thanks for the help and explanations 21:20:35 -!- __stdout [~Nico@p549F74E3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: __stdout] 21:21:13 You're welcome. 21:22:22 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@d12016.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 21:23:14 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:26:33 pjb` [~t@90.24.176.106] has joined #lisp 21:26:55 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 21:28:03 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:37 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 21:30:01 -!- pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-99-185.w82-123.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:31:10 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 21:31:32 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-231-120.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:32:05 -!- arnsa [~arnsa@78-63-18-208.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:32:08 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@216.23.215.142] has quit [] 21:33:39 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:06 -!- LiamH [~none@pool-173-73-124-231.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:34:37 eg0 [~user@162.204.21.125] has joined #lisp 21:35:36 -!- MoALTz [~no@host81-153-181-27.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:36:11 do you guys prefer org-mode to things like trello, asana, basecamp, etc? 21:37:20 -!- igotnolegs- [~igotnoleg@65-130-0-191.slkc.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 21:37:57 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:39:02 igotnolegs- [~igotnoleg@65-130-0-191.slkc.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:31 -!- eg0 [~user@162.204.21.125] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:41:02 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:42:24 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:42:48 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:12 MoALTz [~no@host81-153-181-27.range81-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:46:09 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:46:23 eeezkil [~eeezkil@unaffiliated/eeezkil] has joined #lisp 21:47:38 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:48:01 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:49:47 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:50:57 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:26 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:56:20 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:50 yrk` [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:04 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:16 -!- yrk` [~user@c-50-133-134-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:57:36 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:58:11 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:01:57 BrianRice [~water@c-24-18-219-78.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:16 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:03:50 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 22:04:14 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:04:32 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 22:04:44 -!- zajn [~zajn@airbears2-136-152-142-38.AirBears2.Berkeley.EDU] has quit [Quit: zajn] 22:05:02 -!- bitonic [~user@xdsl-188-155-179-93.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:07:12 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@109.67.150.3] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:08:45 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:09:02 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:09:53 I don't like trello 22:10:31 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:31 but then I'm working on a competitive product, so hey 22:10:34 I'm probably biased 22:11:19 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:11:21 That's good to be biased, and competitive! I hope you're writing it in Lisp!? 22:11:35 -!- maxter_ [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:12:21 -!- breakds [~breakds@c-24-0-146-43.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:12:34 the server-side! Well, I plan to at least. I've been cheating and just using localstorage for persistence 22:13:11 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:15:51 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:16:15 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 22:16:54 as long as the bias is non-linear 22:17:53 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 22:19:51 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:20:05 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:10 hugod [~user@65.94.29.145] has joined #lisp 22:23:25 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:26:02 but then I'm using org-mode right now to work on my application architecture design, so who knows 22:26:09 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.163.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:26:15 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 22:30:01 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 22:31:10 acow [~acow@ppp59-167-142-182.static.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:33:28 -!- ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:34:21 chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:36:06 -!- kentucky82 [~Kentucky8@185.25.87.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:37:46 remind me please, what is a good library to generate XML? 22:37:50 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-242-96.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:37:55 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5B2B2267.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:38:26 fisxoj [~fisxoj@192-0-131-151.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 22:39:27 ok, will use my own ... 22:39:55 gabrielartigue [~artiguecr@47.168.77.188.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 22:40:18 kentucky82 [~Kentucky8@185.25.87.85] has joined #lisp 22:41:09 antonv_: My xml needs are usually simple, and I've only used xmls so far with good results. 22:42:37 pjb, thaks 22:42:52 I recall now I have also used xmls, also with good results 22:43:02 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:43:02 -!- Munksgaard [~philip@80-71-132-106.u.parknet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:43:29 sohail [~sohail@206-248-183-162.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 22:43:29 -!- sohail [~sohail@206-248-183-162.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 22:43:29 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 22:43:54 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:44:06 but I've also now figured xmls and cxml are parsers; when I need to generate xml I can go use even simpler solution 22:44:51 -!- kentucky82 [~Kentucky8@185.25.87.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:46:06 sohail_ [~sohail@206-248-183-162.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 22:46:06 -!- sohail_ [~sohail@206-248-183-162.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:48:03 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:49:53 -!- Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:49:57 -!- acow [~acow@ppp59-167-142-182.static.internode.on.net] has left #lisp 22:51:22 kentucky82 [~Kentucky8@185.25.87.35] has joined #lisp 22:53:43 -!- gleag [~gleag@71.175.broadband2.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:54:20 xmls can generate xml too. 22:56:04 milosn [~milosn@user-5af5053c.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 22:57:59 travisr [~travisrod@173-13-144-65-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:59:58 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:19 pillton [~user@140.253.50.147] has joined #lisp 23:01:41 -!- gabrielartigue [~artiguecr@47.168.77.188.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:08:31 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:10:03 -!- awygle [~Andrew@50.46.151.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:14:02 arrsim` [~user@128.250.116.182] has joined #lisp 23:16:25 davazp [~user@48.Red-79-150-239.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:40 dkordic [~danilo@93-87-124-217.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 23:25:26 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:16 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.228.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:30:47 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 23:36:08 nialo [nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:23 pjb: i see; and from the sources I see it even does some pretty printing 23:37:26 maybe later I will use it at the stage of "rendering", but for now I use the same tool I use for html generation 23:43:46 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:48:42 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:48:48 -!- pr [~pr@unaffiliated/pr] has left #lisp 23:51:21 sohail [~sohail@206-248-183-162.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 23:51:21 -!- sohail [~sohail@206-248-183-162.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 23:51:21 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 23:56:52 tertl3-laptop [~tertl3-la@75.139.64.89] has joined #lisp