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[~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:08:46 aluuu [~aluuu@128-70-136-78.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 02:09:02 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.47.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:10:39 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 02:17:32 -!- burd07 [~burd07@78.129.150.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:19:49 -!- ehaliewi` is now known as ehaliewicz 02:21:53 -!- paul0 [~paul0@187.112.88.37] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:22:13 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has joined #lisp 02:25:35 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-jzgngybietflmzbw] has joined #lisp 02:26:51 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has quit [Client Quit] 02:27:18 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 02:28:44 does anybody use cl-llvm? 02:28:57 if so, is there any way to get it to build with an up to date llvm install? 02:29:29 nicdev [user@2600:3c03::f03c:91ff:fedf:4986] has joined #lisp 02:30:42 quazimodo [~quazimodo@202.62.130.230] has joined #lisp 02:30:47 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-180-111.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 02:32:24 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:33:14 k0001_ [~k0001@host253.190-137-64.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 02:36:30 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-81-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:36:42 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host18.186-108-162.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:37:19 -!- aluuu [~aluuu@128-70-136-78.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:37:27 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-81-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:41:42 sdegutis [~sdegutis@unaffiliated/futile] has joined #lisp 02:41:44 Hello :) 02:42:45 intonaco15 [~intonaco1@78.129.150.175] has joined #lisp 02:42:54 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:43:05 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 02:44:49 -!- 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[Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:59:26 Does Peter Seibel still frequent here? 03:59:35 -!- ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:00:52 ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:00:58 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 04:02:43 pillton: I haven't seen him on in months 04:03:08 loke: Ok. Thanks. 04:03:37 -!- chupish [18b8ecba@gateway/web/freenode/ip.24.184.236.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:05:23 I recommended his book to a colleague here at work. He is having a hard time purchasing a copy. Amazon cancelled his order twice. A local distributor is now having problems sourcing the book. 04:05:46 -!- ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:06:28 ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:08:28 -!- desophos [~desophos@n138h11.dhcp.oxy.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:08:34 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 04:09:10 pillton: It's available online 04:09:38 pillton: that said, it's sad if people want to give htheir money to him for the great work, and they fail to do so 04:10:27 loke: Yeah I know it is online, he wants a physical copy though. 04:10:46 Just send him an email. He's a nice guy 04:10:49 I'm sure he'll help out 04:11:58 maxpeck [~a@unaffiliated/maxpeck] has joined #lisp 04:12:27 loke: Cheers. 04:14:35 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:15:28 -!- ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 04:19:45 -!- Borbus [borbus@85.17.58.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:19:47 -!- d4gg4d [uid7020@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-abjrltibvaoxdtev] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:19:49 -!- dotemacs [uid801@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uiktmezymarshrrk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:20:31 -!- Ralt [Ralt@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:feae:6c69] has quit [Quit: Bye] 04:20:40 -!- foom [~jknight@2620:15c:6:14:be30:5bff:fedf:6db6] has quit [Ping timeout: 261 seconds] 04:21:25 Borbus [borbus@85.17.58.106] has joined #lisp 04:22:44 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:23:01 Ralt 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06:01:01 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-145-59.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:02:23 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 06:02:39 hiroakip [~hiroaki@37-4-164-85-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 06:03:56 SrPx [b1ce397a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.177.206.57.122] has joined #lisp 06:03:58 Does anyone know of a functional language, preferably a lisp, that runs on the GPU - or can be used to program on the GPU without much loss (specific application: a box-based physics system with collision checking that must be really fast) 06:04:02 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 06:05:06 <|3b|> i think cl-gpu compiles something lisp-like to cuda, not sure how 'functional' it is though 06:06:53 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.221.13] has joined #lisp 06:06:53 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.221.13] has quit [Changing host] 06:06:53 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 06:07:25 <|3b|> also https://github.com/eholk/harlan which seems to be scheme based 06:08:38 -!- eldariof [~CLD@188.168.240.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:09:04 <|3b|> possibly also cl-cuda 06:10:26 -!- svs_ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:10:33 <|3b|> cl-opencl-3b doesn't do much of the "translate from lisp" part yet :( 06:10:49 So I guesss there is no proven way to code for the GPU using a functional language? 06:10:56 <|3b|> (and for that matter doesn't seem to have the most recent code pushed, i should fix that at some point) 06:11:55 <|3b|> no idea, might be better solutions in non-lispy functional languages 06:12:44 *|3b|* also hasn't used any except cl-opencl-3b, so can't say how 'proven' or not the others are 06:17:06 nostoi [~nostoi@217.Red-79-154-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 06:17:27 d4gg4d [uid7020@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-gqhdriordafmshfp] has joined #lisp 06:17:36 dotemacs [uid801@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-khfpcesmouxywzmb] has joined #lisp 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[~Beetny@ppp118-208-35-87.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:38:30 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-145-59.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:45:24 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 08:45:29 holycow [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has joined #lisp 08:45:35 hi 08:45:49 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.63.192] has joined #lisp 08:46:20 i started up function in its own thread and it runs properly (it seems). however, when i C-c or C-k any changes the thread does not seem to update. 08:46:37 (defun start () (hello-1) (sb-thread:make-thread 'start)) 08:47:04 does that look right? 08:47:48 <|3b|> for a fork bomb maybe? 08:48:14 <|3b|> well, i guess it should start itself twice for a proper fork bomb 08:48:21 oh i see what you are saying 08:48:22 right 08:49:44 Use loops instead of recursion in threads. 08:49:49 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has joined #lisp 08:50:17 -!- Bike 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ZZZzzz] 10:02:25 ipmonger_ [~IPmonger@pool-72-94-39-57.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:03:55 -!- ipmonger [~IPmonger@pool-72-94-39-57.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:03:55 -!- ipmonger_ is now known as ipmonger 10:07:36 ezakimak [~nick@72.250.219.55] has joined #lisp 10:08:13 -!- ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:12:20 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Excess Flood] 10:14:26 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 10:15:33 -!- vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:15:57 segv- [~mb@95-91-242-164-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:20:44 vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 10:22:07 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:22:39 -!- leo2007 [~leo@124.64.108.199] has quit [Quit: home] 10:24:05 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 10:24:57 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 10:26:24 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Client Quit] 10:27:01 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 10:28:05 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 10:29:35 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 10:32:00 snowylike [~sn@91-67-170-78-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:32:34 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 10:35:48 pillton [~user@124-170-94-12.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:36:14 -!- Munksgaard [~philip@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:36:49 harish [~harish@119.56.121.209] has joined #lisp 10:38:41 -!- vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:40:49 -!- ianclarksmith is now known as ics 10:41:18 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:43:11 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 10:44:57 eeezkil [~eeezkil@unaffiliated/eeezkil] has joined #lisp 10:45:00 -!- Posterdati [~kvirc@host103-221-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 10:47:51 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 10:47:55 Posterdati [~kvirc@host103-221-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 10:50:40 vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 10:51:14 finally 10:51:23 got live coding / interactive coding working 10:51:27 sweet 10:52:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:52:03 you guys were right all along. stuff the main loop into it's own thread and C-c. 10:57:11 ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has joined #lisp 10:59:16 francogrex [franco@162-202-67-158.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 10:59:26 -!- Posterdati [~kvirc@host103-221-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 10:59:39 my latest lisp and asm/machine code escapade: http://paste.lisp.org/display/138950 11:00:26 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has joined #lisp 11:00:48 Posterdati [~kvirc@host103-221-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:02:50 |3b|: what do you think? 11:03:43 or Bike ? 11:04:28 francogrex, I didn't try to understand the code as a whole, but do you know that you can use 'disas' between two addresses in gdb to show the disassembled machine code? 11:04:41 genkinodenki [~migrayn@dsl-vntbrasgw1-50dc7f-98.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 11:05:58 jewel: yes ok but x /Nui also. The intriguing part is that the code is poked in memory however it is not executed 11:07:17 benkard [~benkard@2001:4ca0:0:f230:3995:5c44:7377:60e2] has joined #lisp 11:08:04 -!- knob [~knob@66-50-73-110.prtc.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:11:08 francogrex, oh, the 'i' format option for x is new to me 11:11:37 yes it is very practical 11:11:54 francogrex, can you step instruction by instruction with gdb? 11:12:13 by setting a breakpoint on that pointer address? 11:12:29 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 11:12:39 <|3b|> that address looks like stack, are you sure it wasn't overwritten? and same with registers, who knows what lisp calls are involved in foreign-funcall-pointer that might affect regs and stack 11:12:53 jewel: I don't know that. 11:14:09 |3b|: that's why I chose [16+%EBX], I didn't think it would be touched there (i.e clobbered etc).... 11:14:43 francogrex, I would do: b *0x7ffff7ed805d, then c till breakpoint and si,si,si to step through 11:14:47 <|3b|> are you sure you are even looking at the right thread? 11:14:47 The registers I concede may be affected by the call itself, but that mem locatiion seems unlikely no? 11:16:01 |3b|: no not sure of that 11:16:02 -!- jeff280 [~Jeff@c-69-181-192-147.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: jeff280] 11:16:23 <|3b|> and if you are doing that lisp stuff at the repl, the Print, Loop and next Read could do arbitrarily complex stuff that could overwrite a bunch of stack 11:16:28 -!- vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:17:24 ok then what would be more useful is to have the poked code return something back to lisp or to another output to verify , right? 11:18:08 <|3b|> if you just want to verify it runs, i'd probably just make it segfault :p 11:18:22 <|3b|> (or figure out which opcode breaks into debugger, or whatever) 11:18:31 <|3b|> 3 maybe? 11:18:33 jewel: why did you choose that particular address? 11:19:12 ok, let's try to stick 3 into that vector... 11:19:14 int 3 11:19:21 <|3b|> yeah, int 3 sounds better 11:19:26 I am using ecl, I could use sbcl 11:19:50 int 3 just before ret? 11:20:03 in any implementation? 11:20:27 Sure. The byte is 0xcc, btw 11:20:41 vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 11:20:42 let's try that ;) I will report back 11:22:31 setmeaway [stemearay@119.201.52.138] has joined #lisp 11:23:43 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:25:25 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 263 seconds] 11:28:40 ggole: I haven't done all yet, but that's hex for it: 0xB8, 0x3C, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0xC7, 0x3, 0x38, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0xC7, 0x43, 0x4, 0xAD, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0xBA, 0x7D, 0x0, 0x0, 0x0, 0xCD, 0x3, 0xC3 11:28:57 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:29:48 -!- Posterdati [~kvirc@host103-221-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.3 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 11:30:09 yes it sent me to the debugger :) 11:30:33 debugger invoked on a SB-SYS:BREAKPOINT-ERROR: Unhandled breakpoint/trap at #x9761B1 11:31:04 so ? 11:32:14 the address of the pointer was 0x976198 11:32:28 Hmm, int 0x3c? 11:33:12 no int 3 11:33:41 3c ~ 60 11:34:43 Munksgaard [~philip@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 11:35:16 Ah. My disassembler didn't like the shortened hex constants. 11:35:30 And you are using the long encoding of int 3. 11:36:56 should I replace int 3 with int 0x3c and try again. Anyway i went to debugger which was what was expected right? 11:37:14 No, int 3 is what you want. 11:37:26 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-145-59.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:37:27 Usually it is encoded 0xCC. 11:37:34 yes ok it works, does that mean the code is getting executed? 11:37:38 Yes. 11:37:51 As to the question of why the registers do not change 11:37:54 ok, could I have it return something back to lisp? 11:37:57 eli [~eli@lambda.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 11:37:57 -!- eli [~eli@lambda.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Changing host] 11:37:57 eli [~eli@racket/eli] has joined #lisp 11:38:22 they are clobbered I guess by the extra activities after the call? 11:38:34 I speculate that the foreign call involves saving and restoring all registers to ensure that they are as the garbage collector expects (ie, not pointers into the C heap). 11:39:28 Getting a return value.. hang on, let me have a look at the cffi docs 11:39:39 Posterdati [~kvirc@host103-221-dynamic.21-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:39:54 -!- nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:40:01 ff 11:40:03 woops 11:40:42 -!- vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:40:57 <|3b|> yeah, figuring out the C abi for your platform and returning a value would be a reasonable next step 11:40:58 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:41:07 Harag [~Thunderbi@41.13.2.59] has joined #lisp 11:41:26 <|3b|> (be sure to modify the foreign-funcall-pointer call to specify the expected return type) 11:41:45 foreign-funcall-pointer allows you to specify a foregin return type 11:42:24 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-109-193-013-113.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: conversation expired by invalid existence] 11:42:35 yes, I figure to store the address of what I want to return in a memory position and "read" it from there, but that may not be the good approach 11:43:04 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 11:43:13 sorry I didn't make sense: I meant store the value in a memory address ... 11:43:18 kmox83 [~kmox83@2-229-13-115.ip194.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 11:43:22 So... my next step would be to try that with an uint32 type (and then change the code to something like mov eax, 42/ret 11:43:35 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has joined #lisp 11:44:20 Xach: in the making of an application (pgloader) I did develop a separate lib (ABNF parser generator) that I made separately asdf installable, how do I propose it for Quicklisp? 11:44:43 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.108.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:45:00 cmatei [~cmatei@78.96.108.142] has joined #lisp 11:45:10 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has quit [Client Quit] 11:45:25 ASau` [~user@p5797EB08.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:46:04 ggole ok thanks I will try and report back. BRB 11:46:12 -!- francogrex [franco@162-202-67-158.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.1.2 $Revision: 1.796.2.4 $ (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:46:28 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 11:46:57 ARGH ELISP 11:47:26 src [~user@210.186.58.94] has joined #lisp 11:48:40 Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 11:48:55 -!- ASau [~user@p5797F542.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:50:06 -!- pillton [~user@124-170-94-12.dyn.iinet.net.au] has left #lisp 11:50:15 (intern (string designator)) is a whole homework assignment in elisp, because it doesn't have a built-in which can accept safely either a string or symbol ('string' isn't that) 11:52:52 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 11:53:48 -!- harish [~harish@119.56.121.209] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:54:35 dim: see faq question #1! 11:55:00 harish [~harish@119.56.122.196] has joined #lisp 11:55:26 I should have though of that first. Nap priority just got increased. See you in awhile, thanks ;-) 11:56:24 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 11:56:40 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41.13.2.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:57:32 Harag [~Thunderbi@41.13.8.104] has joined #lisp 11:58:53 -!- par [~owls@unaffiliated/lordlicorice] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:59:06 par [~owls@unaffiliated/lordlicorice] has joined #lisp 11:59:25 walter [~walter@c-98-216-15-111.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:00:26 OK 12:00:41 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:02:03 How does one leave a message again? 12:03:02 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105.236.180.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:03:08 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 12:03:32 breakds [~breakds@c-24-0-146-43.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:44 vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:51 minion: memo for francogrex: Installed CFFI and got it working easily enough. See http://paste.lisp.org/display/138952. AFK for a while. Good luck! 12:03:51 Remembered. I'll tell francogrex when he/she/it next speaks. 12:05:57 -!- kanru` [~kanru@193.214.41.96] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:06:23 kiuma [~kiuma@151.11.163.66] has joined #lisp 12:06:56 Praise- [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 12:08:31 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:09:40 -!- vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:09:44 vsync_ [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:11:46 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-157-49.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:12:32 dkordic [~danilo@93-87-124-217.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 12:12:48 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41.13.8.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:14:44 stardiviner [~stardivin@220.191.124.177] has joined #lisp 12:16:45 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:17:22 -!- kmox83 [~kmox83@2-229-13-115.ip194.fastwebnet.it] 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TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 13:44:23 -!- Aerolitus [~Aerolitus@unaffiliated/xispirito] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:46:59 (sleep 4200) 13:48:12 ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:51:08 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:52:10 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-180-111.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:52:49 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@151.11.163.66] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:52:50 -!- ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:54:09 -!- eeezkil [~eeezkil@unaffiliated/eeezkil] has quit [Quit: ^D] 13:58:18 -!- CampinSam [~CampinSam@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:58:31 ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:59:02 teggi [~teggi@113.173.4.29] has joined #lisp 14:00:03 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:28 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:01:26 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@wirelessNAT188.wireless.temple.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:03:19 -!- ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:04:01 nyef [~nyef@pool-173-76-155-15.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:30 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 14:12:00 I'm interested in learning common lisp. I have a bit of experience with scheme, haskell and SML but I'm rusty at all three. Anyone care to recomend a book, website or similar? 14:12:35 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:12:36 practical common lisp 14:12:45 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 14:12:54 brmj: http://gigamonkeys.com/book/ is a good book. so is peter norvig's Paradigms of AI Programming. 14:13:15 brmj: Best to forget that other stuff while learning CL, and learn it on its own. (I think that applies to learning other languages in general.) 14:14:16 Thanks. 14:14:27 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 14:14:41 sohail [~sohail@206-248-183-162.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 14:14:41 -!- sohail [~sohail@206-248-183-162.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 14:14:41 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 14:14:49 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 14:16:02 That's the Norvig from "Russel and Norvig", right? 14:16:04 -!- ivan [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:16:11 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-14-77.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:16:19 yacks [~py@103.6.159.103] has joined #lisp 14:16:39 Yes. 14:16:42 I'll probably have to check that out. 14:17:10 PAIP is more about lisp than AI though, unless you're really interested in the history of symbolic integration or something. 14:17:16 -!- djinni`_ [~djinni@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:17:36 antonv_ [5d7d2a42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.66] has joined #lisp 14:17:50 -!- vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:19:26 djinni` [~djinni@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 14:20:07 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-146-135.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:20:13 ivan [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 14:21:06 vsync [~vsync@wsip-98-175-216-162.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:21:17 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:21:22 -!- zos [~user@proxy01.elmundo.es] has left #lisp 14:22:27 ampersand27017 [~ampersand@69.3.174.98] has joined #lisp 14:24:15 -!- trigen is now known as trigen|afk 14:29:08 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@109.67.150.3] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:32:25 ehu [~ehu@31.137.222.188] has joined #lisp 14:32:56 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-242-164-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:34:16 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:35:59 tylergoza [~tylergoza@72.29.34.246] has joined #lisp 14:36:24 faihasai [~vek@174.1.196.247] has joined #lisp 14:36:39 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:14 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@melontech.com] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 14:38:15 weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 14:38:22 -!- gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:38:34 gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has joined #lisp 14:38:41 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 14:39:18 -!- gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:39:29 gabot [~eli@racket/bot/gabot] has joined #lisp 14:39:35 -!- protist [~protist@180.224.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:41:34 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:42:49 -!- kmox83 [~kmox83@2-229-13-115.ip194.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: kmox83] 14:43:24 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:43:32 antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-30-218.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 14:43:52 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 14:44:07 http://paste.lisp.org/display/138932 <-- which of these would be preferred and why? (It's emacs lisp, but I'd be interested to know for CL too) 14:44:15 Gooder [~user@125.37.172.32] has joined #lisp 14:45:30 The difference is in when the UNLESS is evaled 14:46:26 -!- arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:47:18 I would be inclined to use symbol-value in CL instead of EVAL. 14:48:58 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-81-139.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:49:06 -!- ehu [~ehu@31.137.222.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:49:21 fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:50:48 Xach: yeah, good point 14:51:33 k0001 [~k0001@host63.186-124-3.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 14:55:30 Do CL implementations annotate source code (in conses) as source is LOADed for debugging purposes? 14:57:47 drmeister: do you mean source line numbers? 14:58:07 drmeister: or how annotate? 15:00:02 segv- [~mb@95-91-242-164-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 15:00:20 Source line numbers 15:00:31 drmeister: yes, they do 15:00:47 drmeister: and it is used in slime 15:01:36 i was wondering that same thing a while ago, how does one access this sort of information? is it stored in every symbol's plist? 15:01:38 That's what I'm looking for - do you know how it's implemented? 15:01:50 -!- holycow [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has left #lisp 15:02:28 -!- fmu [~^fmu@unaffiliated/fmu] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:02:34 -!- Munksgaard [~philip@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:03:03 francogrex [franco@162-202-67-158.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:04 drmeister: slime-edit-definition (invoked by M-. shortcut) navigates to the source code of the symbol at point 15:03:38 ggole: http://paste.lisp.org/display/138956 15:03:38 francogrex, memo from ggole: Installed CFFI and got it working easily enough. See http://paste.lisp.org/display/138952. AFK for a while. Good luck! 15:03:41 Munksgaard [~philip@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 15:04:22 drmeister: how implemented - look in the slime source code. 15:04:22 thanks ggole , and |3b| abd Bike and all others who helped me with this, it works nice 15:04:40 I was looking more for information on how it's implemented prior to digging deep into the source code. 15:05:10 kilo [~kilo@unaffiliated/kil0] has joined #lisp 15:05:56 I'd like to know if there is any support for macro expansion as well, where you store the source location of the macro and where in the source it is expanded into. 15:06:14 I'm fishing for ideas on how to implement my own. 15:07:04 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:07:25 normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-147-065-098.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:38 Especially when SLIME can compile individual forms within a larger file - how does the inferior-lisp know where that source came from. 15:07:55 fmu [~^fmu@unaffiliated/fmu] has joined #lisp 15:08:14 -!- Munksgaard [~philip@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:09:01 drmeister: varies by implementation. some implementations have an api for telling it where a function (or other thing) is defined, and querying that info. 15:09:02 drmeister: doesn't work for individual forms compiled from manually form slime 15:09:15 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-147-065-098.mycingular.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:09:36 Xach: Thanks - do you know which implementation does it best? 15:09:41 minion , memo 15:09:42 In LispWorks it's the "dspec" API, not sure of others. 15:09:47 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 15:09:51 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.141.81.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:09:51 minion: ? 15:09:52 ?: An error was encountered in lookup: Parse error:URI "http://www.cliki.net/??source" contains illegal character #\? at position 22.. 15:10:03 minion: memo 15:10:03 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``memo''. 15:10:20 minion: ,memo 15:10:20 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``,memo''. 15:10:36 (google minion) 15:10:57 drmeister: see the function swank-backend:find-source-location 15:11:14 nipra [~nipra@122.177.195.55] has joined #lisp 15:11:29 it is implemented differently for every lisp implementation, see files like swank-ccl.lisp, swank-sbcl.lisp, etc 15:11:46 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:14:14 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:14:52 -!- faihasai [~vek@174.1.196.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:15:13 minion: Tell francogrex about help memo 15:15:13 francogrex: To send a memo, say something like ``minion: memo for nick: the memo''. I'll remember the memo for any nick which is the same as the given nick, +/- differences in punctuation, and any nick which is an alias for it, and give it to them when they next speak. 15:18:38 ckoch786_____ [~ckoch@ne102615l.eng.utoledo.edu] has joined #lisp 15:19:08 -!- benkard [~benkard@2001:4ca0:0:f230:3995:5c44:7377:60e2] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 15:20:26 -!- kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-ocqdpsmlnmdyzvuy] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:21:28 kirin` [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-vysyjwwrkyqiiszw] has joined #lisp 15:22:19 thanks nyef 15:22:29 No problem. 15:22:40 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 15:23:01 francogrex: got it working? 15:23:16 benkard [~benkard@2001:4ca0:0:f230:8c94:57df:a00:1208] has joined #lisp 15:23:38 ggole: i was writing you a memo, yes works nice I posted a link, also saw from you the link also your example works fine 15:24:04 I wasn't sure whether W^X would get in the way or not. 15:24:06 Guess not. 15:24:33 what is W^X ? 15:24:49 At a guess, a rule that says no writing to executable space? 15:24:56 A security measure whereby pages are either writable, or executable, but never both. 15:25:03 -!- ckoch786_____ [~ckoch@ne102615l.eng.utoledo.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:25:06 Write Xor eXecute. 15:25:26 ah, no it works quite well, in all the implementations: ecl, sbcl, ccl (clisp still to try) 15:25:57 It's implemented at the OS level, so I wouldn't expect it to change per implementation. 15:26:45 Although I guess they could request protection. 15:27:21 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:27:25 ok here on Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 520M CPU @ 2.40GHz running windows XP it's ok 15:27:42 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:27:48 I will try on other x86 and other OS 15:28:04 I don't believe XP has it (Windows people call it DEP, iirc). 15:28:47 W^P not on XP, good. I hope debian linux doesn't have it too 15:29:33 "DEP was introduced on Linux in 2004 (kernel 2.6.8[2]), on Windows in 2004 with Windows XP Service Pack 2" 15:30:11 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 15:30:37 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:30:44 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 15:31:19 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 15:32:39 so it has it but it didn't inetefere with our messing about... good 15:33:40 More fun that way, yes. 15:34:07 Vicfred [~Vicfred@187.206.29.185] has joined #lisp 15:37:12 ykm [~ykm@38.snat-111-91-51.hns.net.in] has joined #lisp 15:37:41 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.173.4.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:38:55 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:39:06 -!- benkard [~benkard@2001:4ca0:0:f230:8c94:57df:a00:1208] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 15:40:15 diadara_ [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 15:40:18 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:41:11 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:41:51 smazga [~Adium@li336-165.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 15:43:03 sohail [~sohail@206-248-183-162.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 15:43:03 -!- sohail [~sohail@206-248-183-162.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 15:43:03 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 15:43:14 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:45:34 benkard [~benkard@2001:4ca0:0:f230:f10b:4707:d591:f870] has joined #lisp 15:47:56 desophos [~desophos@n138h11.dhcp.oxy.edu] has joined #lisp 15:49:19 -!- ampersand27017 [~ampersand@69.3.174.98] has quit [Quit: ampersand27017] 15:49:57 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:54:34 -!- Codynyx 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[~Ren@cpe-76-180-168-166.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:07:54 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@5.254.151.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:08:31 -!- cdan [~cdan@mail.savatech.ro] has quit [Quit: cdan] 16:09:19 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-72-42-224.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:10:21 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 16:10:36 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-246-180-47.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:11:29 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@c-98-246-180-47.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:07 -!- dkordic [~danilo@93-87-124-217.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:15:10 cdidd [~cdidd@95-27-42-72.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 16:21:47 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Write error: Broken pipe] 16:21:53 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:24:48 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@187.206.29.185] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:25:32 -!- Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:25:59 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:35 Think I mighta just gotten a thinly veiled "help me do my homework" request... 16:27:35 -!- ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:28:20 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 16:28:46 <_death> think of it as a practice in lisp obfuscation 16:29:01 Munksgaard [~philip@80-71-132-106.u.parknet.dk] has joined #lisp 16:29:11 -!- _death is now known as adeht 16:29:51 -!- diadara_ [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:30:51 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-015-127.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:32:25 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:35:38 -!- Munksgaard [~philip@80-71-132-106.u.parknet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:35:38 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-180-111.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:35:56 faihasai [~vek@174.1.196.247] has joined #lisp 16:36:22 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-015-127.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:33 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:36:42 -!- faihasai [~vek@174.1.196.247] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 16:36:51 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 16:36:53 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-54-11-42.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:37:08 faihasai [~vek@174.1.196.247] has joined #lisp 16:37:17 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 16:38:20 -!- hlavaty` [~user@friedrichstrasse.knowledgetools.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:41:42 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 16:42:12 biffspeak [~user@70.45.217.130] has joined #lisp 16:42:52 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 16:43:13 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 16:43:14 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-lhsozmoicpvptmlr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:44:38 hello everyone! what can you guys recommend as a good intro to lisp resource for someone with a solid c and python background? 16:46:30 http://gigamonkeys.com/book/ is a good book. norvig's paradigms of ai programming too. 16:47:13 excellent, i'll check them out. thanks Xach. 16:47:19 fss7546 [~alice@217.118.90.179] has joined #lisp 16:48:18 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Quit: Life is too short] 16:49:22 Munksgaard [~philip@80-71-132-106.u.parknet.dk] has joined #lisp 16:49:33 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 16:49:36 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:49:57 -!- biffspeak [~user@70.45.217.130] has left #lisp 16:50:36 sohail [~sohail@206-248-183-162.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 16:50:37 -!- sohail [~sohail@206-248-183-162.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 16:50:37 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 16:51:37 k0001_ [~k0001@host193.190-138-113.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 16:51:54 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-237-029.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:52:15 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-242-164-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:55:06 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host63.186-124-3.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:58:52 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:15 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-170-78-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 17:01:29 Xach: That's almost bot not quite the same wording you used when I asked almost the same question earlier. Now you've got me thinking about the feasability of writing a bot to determine when people are asking that type of question and give a stock response. 17:02:03 There is a bot to do it. I don't mind writing it. 17:03:17 sdemarre [~serge@26.66-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 17:03:26 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:03:48 -!- fss7546 [~alice@217.118.90.179] has left #lisp 17:03:55 Trying to detect questons of that type seems like a reasonably interesting but reasonably doable problem in natural language parseing, though. The practical side of things is just a bonus. 17:04:09 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:05:17 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@194.228.11.84] has joined #lisp 17:05:24 Nifty problems, and all that. Unfortunately, Ive got better things to do, like continue reading http://gigamonkeys.com/book/ 17:05:39 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.47.109] has joined #lisp 17:06:22 -!- sdemarre [~serge@26.66-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has left #lisp 17:06:47 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 17:07:40 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 17:07:43 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@mobilenet1-4-159-148.bulk.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 17:12:01 diadara_ [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 17:12:03 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Client Quit] 17:13:07 -!- ykm [~ykm@38.snat-111-91-51.hns.net.in] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:13:07 eeezkil [~eeezkil@unaffiliated/eeezkil] has joined #lisp 17:14:03 segv- [~mb@95.91.242.164] has joined #lisp 17:14:32 -!- segv- [~mb@95.91.242.164] has left #lisp 17:14:52 segv- [~mb@95-91-242-164-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 17:15:16 -!- duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:15:43 -!- cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:15:52 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-242-164-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:18:05 superjudge_ [~superjudg@c83-250-14-77.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:18:06 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-14-77.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:18:06 -!- superjudge_ is now known as superjudge 17:18:14 segv- [~mb@95-91-242-164-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 17:19:00 CampinSam [~CampinSam@24-176-103-21.dhcp.jcsn.tn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:20:25 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 17:23:49 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:38 -!- Summon [~kvirc@94.180.17.61] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.3.1 Aria http://www.kvirc.net/] 17:29:52 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:30:59 travisr [~travisrod@17.223.151.202] has joined #lisp 17:32:12 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-116-143.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:46 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-171.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:34:38 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:10 -!- desophos [~desophos@n138h11.dhcp.oxy.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:40:50 ejbs [~user@h-211-78.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 17:42:12 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-116-143.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:42:28 -!- agumonkey [~agu@147.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:42:56 In the Current Recommended Libraries page on CLiki, how good does the library really have to be? "good enough for government use" doesn't say much to me, especially as governments don't develop video games for example :) 17:42:56 ejbs, memo from mathrick: Are there any glaring faults in doing that? <-- it seems like ensuring the proper order of locks to avoid priority inversion and deadlocks would be tricky. If you go for locks, you have to ensure you have a method for enforcing ordering 17:43:18 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:44:30 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-13.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:45:03 agumonkey [~agu@147.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:36 bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:51 ejbs: there are not enough lispers to have any valid statistics on the goodness of libraries. 17:47:09 -!- shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-lgsgqthigpjismpr] has quit [Quit: shridhar] 17:47:16 Just try them yourself, and post an article on news:comp.lang.lisp (and possibly a copy on cliki) reporting your findings. 17:47:39 Choose the best in your opinion, and make it better (write doc, remove bugs, generalize, port, etc). 17:47:45 MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-173-67-109-81.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:03 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-117-198.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:55 pjb: OK, but if I find a library to be "good enough for me" (as in: decent documentation and library) or "soon good enough for me and actively developed"; do you then think that it'd be OK to add it to the Current recommended libs list? 17:49:59 Of course. 17:50:24 If you feel you have the authority to recommend a library, be sure to do it! 17:50:40 (that's the part where you did the homework of trying and comparing the libraries) 17:51:42 -!- agumonkey [~agu@147.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:53:29 Hmm, alright. Well then, I personally think that that list needs to be updated, there are a lot more of good Lisp libraries than one thinks :) 17:53:32 agumonkey [~agu@147.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:22 ejbs: Agreed. 17:54:33 ejbs: for one thing there are a lot of libraries on quicklisp. 17:54:59 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:26 jlongster [~user@pool-173-53-114-190.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:49 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #lisp 17:55:52 ejbs: see http://quickdocs.org/ 17:56:15 Mmm. And I'm not sure that I'd agree with some of the given recommendations. I find usocket to be incomprehensible, and I'm fairly sure that there was a reason that I'm using st-json instead of cl-json... 17:57:25 nyef: There was recently a very good article posted in /r/lisp detailing the differences between the different JSON libs. I personally do not see a problem posting all of the alternatives as long as they are all good enough and why one should choose one over the other is written along with the recommendation. 17:57:39 Well, that would be the reason why I'm not totally in favor of recommendation, the more so if they recommend only one library per category. 17:58:09 Often, you want to use a different library for different reasons, maintainability, features, licenses, etc. 17:58:39 -!- brmj [444631d0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.68.70.49.208] has left #lisp 17:58:58 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:39 Replacing the simple CLiki page with a link to a separate website with more detailed information would perhaps be preferred. Though it would be annoying to create yet another Lisp website... 17:59:43 ejbs: Linking to that article from the JSON page might be a good idea, actually... 18:00:03 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.47.109] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 18:00:15 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.47.109] has joined #lisp 18:00:29 ejbs: now, the purpose of that page is to make it easy to newbies. 18:00:46 Instead of "recommended" let's say that's a set of "default" libraries. 18:02:14 nyef: Perhaps, we could always ask the author if we could put up a CLiki page with that article written out on it. With a link to the original provided, of course. 18:02:17 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@64.119.141.126] has joined #lisp 18:02:29 nyef: That would be preferred, in case the article goes down or something 18:02:36 Ah, right, cl-json doesn't represent empty arrays well. That'd be one reason for me to reject it. 18:03:07 ltbarcly_ [~textual@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 18:03:28 (Of course, I then screwed up and managed to write code that conflates the empty array with a not-present field... Oops.) 18:03:59 And there are Java JSON libraries that can't distinguish between a not-present field and a NULL field... 18:04:11 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 18:06:18 macrobat [~beep@h-199-47.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 18:07:41 You need brucio's beautiful-if 18:07:55 A package with no exported symbols is also false 18:08:49 Has brucio been blogging recently? 18:08:59 -!- dfox [~dfox@94.142.237.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:09:00 not in years 18:09:21 I don't even know who Brucio is :/ 18:09:32 a silly person 18:09:52 Nobody knows who he is. I suspect Xach :-) 18:10:08 Heh, anyone got a link to his blog? 18:10:18 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:11:21 Might need to view the blog by way of the wayback machine. I seem to recall it disappearing a while back. 18:11:58 Ithttp://web.archive.org/web/20080722232746/http://brucio.blogspot.com/ 18:12:30 Thanks. Also, who/what is/was Lemonodor? 18:12:32 nyef: ya he did! 18:12:45 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:13:07 -!- smazga [~Adium@li336-165.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:13:22 hiroakip [~hiroaki@37.83.118.205] has joined #lisp 18:13:24 Lemonodor is not anonymous. 18:13:53 ejbs: lemonodor wrote a lot about lisp news in the early 2000s 18:13:57 early-mid 18:14:06 Now he writes about drones 18:14:56 Maybe he'll start writing about queen bees soon instead? 18:14:58 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 18:16:02 strg [~strg@a89-182-1-47.net-htp.de] has joined #lisp 18:17:46 knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has joined #lisp 18:20:43 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 18:21:51 Oh well, see you guys later :) 18:23:20 -!- genkinodenki [~migrayn@dsl-vntbrasgw1-50dc7f-98.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:24:12 l_ [~l_@84.233.246.170] has joined #lisp 18:24:34 arare [~Aramur@153.68.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 18:24:36 -!- faihasai [~vek@174.1.196.247] has quit [] 18:24:56 -!- l_ [~l_@84.233.246.170] has left #lisp 18:25:06 -!- benkard [~benkard@2001:4ca0:0:f230:f10b:4707:d591:f870] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 18:25:53 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@201.165.168.17] has joined #lisp 18:26:38 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:27:38 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:28:09 dfox [~dfox@94.142.237.120] has joined #lisp 18:30:43 -!- walter [~walter@c-98-216-15-111.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:31:03 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 18:33:19 Some of those jokes still make me laugh. 18:34:34 Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5B2B3577.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:35:50 -!- ltbarcly_ [~textual@216.113.168.135] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:39:37 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:39:50 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:44:50 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 18:45:15 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:46:38 On the topic of blogs, does anyone know what happaned with this blog that gave a tour on the SBCL internals (http://insidelisp.blogspot.ca/2010/04/book-chapter-12-general-python-anatomy.html) 18:49:09 i think he posted an update about it explaining he was done 18:49:22 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:50:19 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 18:51:53 [This seems like an easy question, but my google fu was too weak:] Is there a portable DEFADVICE somewhere? 18:52:18 on arbitrary functions? 18:55:23 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:59:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 19:00:00 Well, either that, or a consensus implementation across CL implementations. 19:02:11 Mostly wondering if there's something that will work across ACL and SBCL (or that can be wrapped to do so w/o too much pain). They both have something like fwrappers, and Allegro has ADVICE implemented with fwrappers... 19:02:37 jeff280 [~Jeff@199-83-220-56.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:48 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.47.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:03:14 rpg: I don't know of one. 19:03:51 -!- travisr [~travisrod@17.223.151.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:03:55 IIRC pjb has one 19:04:34 ADVICE turns out to have been a poor name for use in a world of keyword search! ;-) 19:05:00 elisp names it `defadvice' 19:05:00 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for names it `defadvice'. 19:05:04 no blog there 19:05:12 There's a defadvice in some old library, clocc or something. 19:05:16 I find lots of requests for, and responses with, advice about using SBCL! Not so much about ADVICE in SBCL! 19:05:38 minion: advice on advice? 19:05:38 You can't expect automated advice for everything. 19:05:47 when I wanted to implement a defadvice for sbcl I couldn't find a good way to do it 19:06:11 Could you find a bad way to do it? 19:06:17 Vivitron: I did some things with the function wrappers in SBCL a while ago, but alas have mostly garbage-collected what I knew about them. 19:06:25 Anyways, it's easier to re-implement it and faster than the time since the quesion was asked above here. 19:06:41 -!- ggole [~ggole@203-59-109-57.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [] 19:07:09 well, I didn't know about fwrappers so maybe I'll have a look at that 19:07:26 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:07:37 ltbarcly_ [~textual@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 19:07:41 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-109-67-150-3.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:07 pie1 [~other@94.25.229.38] has joined #lisp 19:08:10 hi 19:08:43 can you recommend fast graph library? 19:09:00 nyef: well, it was easy enough to get code to run around a function, but it didn't play well with redefinitions. I suppose it was a terrible way to do it 19:09:08 it'll be cool also if there is a benchmarking for that library too 19:09:27 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:03 Vivitron: Unfortunately, I have forgotten the name that is used in SBCL. Fwrapper is the ACL terminology. WRAPPER is used pervasively throughout the SBCL source. 19:10:11 *rpg* looks.... 19:10:45 CMUCL uses the term fwrapper 19:11:04 ed_g [~quassel@c-50-139-71-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:09 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@mobilenet1-4-159-148.bulk.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:11:31 -!- pie1 [~other@94.25.229.38] has quit [Client Quit] 19:12:44 developernotes [~developer@173-18-189-145.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 19:14:27 bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 19:14:29 Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 19:14:38 Note from Nikodemus sketching an API for SBCL: 19:14:56 http://paste.lisp.org/display/3362 19:15:06 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:17:47 zos [~user@80.174.53.186.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 19:18:32 Looks like SB!IMPLE::ENCAPSULATE is what I was thinking of. ISTR someone telling me I was playing with fire using this, though. 19:18:46 Is this something like ADVICE in CCL? 19:20:21 (Or rather ADVISE, actually) 19:20:55 sb-impl is pretty firey in general 19:21:14 gleag: http://www.franz.com/support/documentation/9.0/doc/operators/excl/defadvice.htm 19:22:01 Is ADVICE and fwrappers similar to methods and standard method combination? 19:22:46 a bit 19:22:57 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:23:02 they work with functions, though, rather than methods or gfs or whatever 19:23:20 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:23:20 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-180-111.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:23:34 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 19:23:54 Interesting... 19:24:01 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:24:02 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:24:06 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:25:45 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 19:26:57 emacs has a defadvice too 19:27:19 sbcl uses encapsulation for tracing and profiling, i think 19:27:22 lotsa stuff like that 19:27:26 Ya I can use fwrappers to modify a library function possibly, without having to modify the original function? 19:27:26 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 19:27:37 i'd just redefine it 19:27:39 if i were you. 19:28:18 -!- ltbarcly_ [~textual@216.113.168.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:28:22 I thought redefining functions from libraries was dangerous because of inlining etc? 19:28:54 fwrapping wouldn't fix inlining problems either. 19:29:02 Ahh, ok 19:29:12 and i mean, just patch the source and recompile. 19:29:38 or, in the likely case that the function isn't inlined anyway, just redefine it 19:29:45 did that for cl-irc once, worked fine 19:29:45 That what is point of them then? If wrapping is bad as well and doesn't solve unlined issue? 19:29:55 for tracing, and profiling, and stuff! 19:30:14 usually you don't trace inlined functions, anyway 19:30:24 Ohh I see, okay. Thanks for clearing that up. 19:31:01 patching the source will work if it's inlined, since you're recompiling everything 19:31:59 ltbarcly_ [~textual@216.113.168.141] has joined #lisp 19:32:06 Ya I have been forking any changes I need to make and putting inside local-projects 19:32:26 Which so far is only 1 project :) 19:33:09 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:33:52 advice is for overloading things that you cannot modify (e.g., bits of the guts of emacs, adding instrumentation for transient debugging needs -- like tracing!, etc.). 19:34:11 Also ADVICE is more powerful than :AROUND methods because you don't get multiple around methods. 19:34:23 (you could with a nonstandard combination :p) 19:34:40 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-136-122.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:10 Bike: Yeah, but let's say I want to debug generic function FOO -- my need to debug it should not force me to modify it. Advice lets you instrument it in a transient way, like TRACE, but more general. 19:35:20 -!- diadara_ [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 19:35:28 yeah, i know, i'm just foolin' 19:35:39 the transience is a nice way of thinking about it. 19:35:56 though you can do that with methods too. not quite as convenient, but eh 19:36:12 Let's say I want to see what the value of a function is when called with a particular argument, I can do that very easily with advice, without monkeying with the function itself. Note that some trace functions may be able to do this, too. 19:36:14 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@178.172.234.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:36:20 ... Which reminds me, does anyone here use TRACE :ENCAPSULATE NIL on SBCL these days? 19:36:31 It's incredibly useful in emacs lisp. 19:36:50 i do not need to be convinced, it's alright 19:36:51 yes, suppose I wanted to add ansi color codes to trace output, I could use an advice system instead of trace 19:36:54 i don't know of any portable version, though. 19:36:56 I know that it doesn't work on some platforms, and is probably not threadsafe, but... 19:43:18 rpg: Just learning clos, but, you can't have multiple around methods? I thought you could? 19:43:33 you can't have multiple around methods on the same specializers 19:43:35 in standard combination 19:43:51 Ahh, I see, good to know 19:43:55 Thanks 19:45:12 chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:45:16 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 19:48:41 STilda [~AlexandrK@188.162.167.10] has joined #lisp 19:50:44 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [] 19:51:30 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 20:01:22 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:28 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-161-13.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12:34 -!- paddymahoney [~paddymaho@24.137.221.230] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:12:41 -!- jeff280 [~Jeff@199-83-220-56.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has quit [Quit: jeff280] 20:16:26 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-203-73.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:16:50 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 20:16:56 francogrex [~user@239.163-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 20:17:39 andreh [~andreh@177.205.105.53.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 20:19:11 this seems like an interesting project: https://github.com/rpav/cl-autowrap 20:19:25 jeff280 [~Jeff@199-83-220-56.PUBLIC.monkeybrains.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:44 it uses c2ffi though, isn't c2ffi sort of obsolete? 20:25:38 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26:40 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-180-111.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:27:31 -!- maxpeck [~a@unaffiliated/maxpeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:28:07 <|3b|> i think c2ffi is part of it or a related (new) project, so probably not the same c2ffi as any obsolete one 20:28:52 maxpeck [~a@unaffiliated/maxpeck] has joined #lisp 20:29:50 -!- Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:29:55 normanrichards [~normanric@adsl-99-18-226-170.dsl.aus2tx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:26 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-173-53-114-190.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:33:08 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-14-77.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 20:33:43 ah yes true, it's by the same author 20:33:55 -!- maxpeck [~a@unaffiliated/maxpeck] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:10 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@201.165.168.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:35:39 maxpeck [~a@gateway/shell/freebnc/x-voptweqskkvvvrvs] has joined #lisp 20:36:38 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@adsl-99-18-226-170.dsl.aus2tx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:39:37 -!- maxpeck [~a@gateway/shell/freebnc/x-voptweqskkvvvrvs] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:39:51 the "other" c2ffi is here: http://common-lisp.net/project/c2ffi/ 20:41:16 -!- Karl_dscc 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21:52:21 ltbarcl__ [~textual@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 21:54:57 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: ZzzZ] 21:55:04 -!- ltbarcly_ [~textual@216.113.168.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:56:23 laura123 [~laura@79.117.236.236] has joined #lisp 21:56:28 hi 21:56:35 as 21:56:38 fvgvgb 21:57:46 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 21:57:50 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:58:17 -!- ipmonger [~IPmonger@pool-72-94-39-57.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ipmonger] 21:58:43 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:01:14 -!- laura123 [~laura@79.117.236.236] has quit [] 22:01:52 -!- Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:03:16 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has joined #lisp 22:07:19 -!- par [~owls@unaffiliated/lordlicorice] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:08:01 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@adsl-99-18-226-170.dsl.aus2tx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 22:09:35 -!- bgs100 [~nitrogen@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:11:38 -!- smazga [~Adium@li336-165.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:15:14 -!- ltbarcl__ [~textual@216.113.168.135] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:16:23 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r186-52-132-107.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:17:46 hmmmm 22:17:48 lol 22:18:09 smazga [~Adium@li336-165.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 22:19:38 A cat named laura123. 22:19:53 ltbarcly_ [~textual@216.113.168.135] has joined #lisp 22:20:09 feep 22:21:18 chirp chirp chirp 22:21:49 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:22:26 par [~owls@unaffiliated/lordlicorice] has joined #lisp 22:23:19 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has joined #lisp 22:23:39 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 22:33:01 -!- gleag [~gleag@71.175.broadband2.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:33:21 ISF [~ivan@187.64.222.94] has joined #lisp 22:33:41 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@mobilenet1-4-159-148.bulk.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:33:50 -!- zos [~user@80.174.53.186.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:35:32 johan` [~user@h-30-80.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 22:35:54 -!- johan` is now known as ejbs 22:43:55 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@37.83.118.205] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:47:19 why does SBCL call it a "style warning" if you call a function that doesn't exit? 22:47:21 exist 22:47:38 isn't it more than a "style" warning? isn't it broken? 22:47:43 <``Erik> because it might exist later 22:47:47 relaxed condition 22:47:48 because you can define a function and then your stylewarned function will work fine 22:47:50 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:47:51 without recompile or whatever 22:47:53 define the function* 22:47:59 -!- francogrex [~user@239.163-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Quit: asm rules] 22:48:51 well it would suck if it did "hayyzzzz don't get you! to the bugger with you!" 22:48:53 if you can't define the function (like if the name is reserved in the CL package) it's a full warning 22:48:57 everytime.... 22:48:58 lol 22:49:37 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 22:49:47 http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/TInference.html 22:49:54 that one is helluva interesting... 22:50:18 i suppose it must be necessary to allow that if you want to be able to write mutally recursive functions 22:50:22 -!- igorww is now known as igorw 22:50:35 -!- ltbarcly_ [~textual@216.113.168.135] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:50:41 nice math there too.... 22:50:45 geez 22:50:52 well, if you evaluate it one at a time instead of in a file, i guess. 22:52:10 ltbarcly_ [~textual@216.113.168.141] has joined #lisp 22:53:27 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has joined #lisp 22:53:32 so i guess it's not possible to write the textbook corecursive 'odd' and 'even' functions without getting the warning when you compile them... 22:54:08 if you have them in a file it's fine, since the're in the same compilation unit 22:54:59 -!- ejbs [~user@h-30-80.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has left #lisp 22:55:03 ejbs [~user@h-30-80.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 22:55:19 oh, i'm allowed to define them in any order in one .lisp file, and i won't get warnings? 22:55:33 yes 22:58:38 thanks. ok another newbie question: is there any point in using inline declarations, or are modern compilers smart enough to figure it out for themself? 22:59:20 (i should be able to verify this myself by reading disassembled code, but it hurts my eyes) 22:59:42 (i mean, i had difficulty following assembly language...) 22:59:47 macdice: There is a point to it. SBCL can ensure some inlining, such as inlining of functions defined with LABELS or FLET 22:59:56 yes, it has a point. 22:59:59 But the thing is, Common Lisp is *extremely* dynamic 23:00:22 So it's often impossible for the compiler to know if it can inline a function unless you explicitly tell it that that's ok 23:00:27 figuring out when to inline is a hard problem. 23:00:48 (impossible can also mean "very hard" ;) ) 23:01:01 ejbs: well, it's allowed to inline functions in the same compilation unit, isn't it... that's not so hard 23:01:04 do you mean that it will never inline the function unless you say it can, because you're allowed to redefine it? 23:01:18 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-109-67-150-3.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:01:30 <|3b|> compilers can't in general inline things that might be redefined without your permission (by inline declarations), except when they are in the same compilation unit 23:01:52 just because it's in the same compilation unit doesn't mean you can't redefine it later, does it? 23:01:53 <|3b|> unless they want to recompile everything where it was inlined when it gets changed 23:02:01 macdice: it does 23:02:09 r__ [~r@209-6-67-155.c3-0.abr-ubr1.sbo-abr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:02:16 <|3b|> you can redefine it, but compilers are specifically allowed to inline things in same compilation unit 23:02:18 macdice: well, the consequences are undefined, anyway 23:02:26 for other functions in the unit 23:02:33 <|3b|> (or generally compile them differently, like use specialized calling conventions) 23:02:40 ok, so translation units (a word i'd only heard in the context of .c/.cpp before) seem to be more important than i thought 23:02:43 *|3b|* isn't sure how many actually take advantage of that though 23:02:59 Bike: I actually don't know what a compilation unit is! 23:03:03 <|3b|> "compilation unit" is the specific CL term 23:03:08 clhs with-compilation-unit 23:03:09 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_w_comp.htm 23:03:14 <|3b|> which doesn't apply for example to just LOADing 23:03:14 -!- maxpeck [~a@unaffiliated/maxpeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:03:15 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:03:17 walter [~walter@c-98-216-15-111.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:41 I actually ran into an oddity yesterday, using SBCL. I had a stub function that I was dynamically replacing with another implementation for testing purposes, but was getting errors relating to the derived return type of the stub function. 23:05:12 The limits of what's allowed in a compilation unit can be more broad than expected, sometimes. 23:05:24 were you defining the stub function in the same compilation unit as the code that called it? 23:05:24 nyef: |3b|: Yeah, I'm too sick/ill to be able to understand that atm 23:05:50 ejbs: basically compile-file establishes a compilation unit and with-compilation-unit establishes a compilation unit. 23:08:34 echo-area [~user@111.196.1.152] has joined #lisp 23:08:51 Is (namestring (truename _pathname_)) to get the true name of a file as a string the appropriate idiom? 23:09:22 drmeister: sssssssort of. 23:09:37 Xach: What would you recommend? 23:09:59 I love that answer. It says "yes, but there's an awful lot more that you need to know before you consider using it". (-: 23:10:13 drmeister: well, it depends on what you want to use that string for. for giving to the same CL implementation for reparsing, it is pretty good. 23:10:25 -!- r__ [~r@209-6-67-155.c3-0.abr-ubr1.sbo-abr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:10:34 drmeister: for passing to some other process to give it a reference to a file CL knows about, not very portable or reliable. 23:10:35 I'm working within C++ - calling Common Lisp functions and I need C-strings that I can pass to fopen. 23:10:43 -!- smazga [~Adium@li336-165.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:11:03 drmeister: since you're writing the CL, you could demand that your namestrings are the same as the C notion of file name strings. 23:11:08 davazp [~user@48.Red-79-150-239.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:39 drmeister: other CLs provide a non-standard API for getting pathname strings to pass to foreign code, e.g. SBCL has SB-EXT:NATIVE-NAMESTRING and CCL has something similar. 23:11:55 -!- davazp [~user@48.Red-79-150-239.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:12:33 fridim__ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317559.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:12:57 Hmmm, I think I should be using coerce_to_posix_filename with that in mind. 23:14:01 I stole a lot of code from ECL to process pathnames and interact with the unix file system - it's not clear to me when to use which functions. 23:15:06 I don't think it's bad to use an internal function for getting that kind of string 23:15:39 It could be nice if name strings were de facto suitable for passing to foreign code, other processes, etc, but it's not (and not de jure) 23:15:46 namestrings, that is 23:16:00 -!- Bike [~Glossina@gannon-wless-gw.resnet.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:16:14 Of course, you would have to give up VAX network share syntax maybe 23:16:32 But all the world's a VAX! 23:16:39 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 23:16:55 i am a child of init 23:17:43 So... your VAX is running BSD? 23:18:00 I heard that about ten years ago most of the surplus Vax machines were purchased by Scientology - they wanted computers that couldn't be hacked. 23:19:20 Did they also go for the Alphas, given that they also run OpenVMS? 23:20:23 nyef: It's been too long - I don't recall. 23:21:38 nyef: waiting for DEC Thetas 23:21:46 -!- Gooder [~user@125.37.172.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:22:30 maxpeck [~a@unaffiliated/maxpeck] has joined #lisp 23:23:03 stardiviner [~stardivin@112.10.119.126] has joined #lisp 23:23:27 Yeah - it's described in the book: "Blown for Good: Behind the Iron Curtain of Scientology" although they don't mention hacking - their system for keeping tabs on their members was all Vax based. 23:24:09 -!- paul0 [~paul0@187.112.88.37] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:24:41 Gotta run - back later. 23:24:43 the logic seems flawed. the source code can be studied, and new patches are not forthcoming 23:25:02 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25:31 macdice: What logic? 23:25:35 -!- stardiviner [~stardivin@112.10.119.126] has quit [Client Quit] 23:26:48 Okay, to change the subject a bit, has anyone here tried working with sb-cover or any other code-coverage reporting tool for SBCL? 23:30:52 i was reading about a company called ravenpack that is doing market sentiment analysis and other finance industry voodoo with common lisp 23:31:17 does anyone know the backstory to that, how they came to be using lisp, is there some famous old lisp guru behind it? 23:31:30 Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 23:31:57 I talked to Jason Cornez at ELS this year and I think he gave the background. But I can't remember. 23:32:26 macdice: I think it was one of those "really smart founders learned lisp at university and started a company after that", but there are so many stories like that I might be mixing them up. 23:33:55 ok that description reminds me of ITA software, which was described in an email from one of the founders that paul graham published on his website 23:34:03 -!- antonv_ [5d7d2a42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:35:08 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-98-217.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:35:08 ok i see that the Jason Cornez you mentioned is the CTO 23:36:32 from their page, it says he was at MIT and "and is responsible for the design and implementation of the RavenPack software platform" 23:36:45 gmcastil [~user@ip-64-134-156-78.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:49 desophos [~desophos@n138h11.dhcp.oxy.edu] has joined #lisp 23:37:01 i guess he did the famous scheme/sicp course at mit 23:37:11 mikeit [~mikeit@net-93-65-150-84.cust.dsl.vodafone.it] has joined #lisp 23:42:01 how can i automatically find defuns that are not referenced by any other code? 23:42:44 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:43:00 duggiefresh [~duggiefre@c-71-192-255-114.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:35 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.125] has joined #lisp 23:43:51 You're looking for unreferenced defined functions? 23:44:33 -!- walter [~walter@c-98-216-15-111.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:44:35 yeah, well i did a bunch of refactoring work and i think i now have some functions that i could delete, and wondered if there were an automatic way to find them 23:44:51 There's probably some way to do it by starting from a package, finding a list of symbols in that package that define functions, then use xref information to determine which ones have no callers, and that won't be absolutely reliable but will be a good start. 23:47:50 nilly [~nil@c-71-231-216-136.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:48:25 Hrm. That gives me a couple of ideas for some of my own code analysis needs. 23:49:36 what sort of analysis are you wanting to work ok? 23:49:57 nyef: http://paste.lisp.org/+2Z83 23:50:00 To start with, I'm wanting better coverage analysis for my test suite... 23:53:01 breakds [~breakds@c-24-0-146-43.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:22 fe[nl]ix: excellent! 23:54:34 That's not completely reliable, of course, but the way that I have found to break it involves a bit of... indirection. 23:55:16 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.86.9] has joined #lisp 23:55:27 well, it found me some dead code i can delete. tidy 23:55:31 scottj [~scott@206.212.250.58] has joined #lisp 23:55:46 writing () instead of nil takes me back to scheme hacking days 23:56:00 Another angle for finding dead code is to fire up a code coverage tool, run your test suite, and look at the coverage results. 23:56:00 well, it would be quoted in scheme i guess 23:56:11 heh. yeah. my test suite 23:57:24 i'll be honest: i write mountains and mountains of unit tests in my day job, today i saw that i had 5 times more lines of tests than code under test, in c++. my lisp hacking is still in hobby phase, late at night, i don't even know the name of a unit test library... 23:58:27 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:36c6:d400:75af:49fb:9a39:4dec] has joined #lisp 23:58:36 -!- Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat99.it.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:58:48 also, if i had code that i wasn't using, except that i had tests for it, i would still want to delete it, but it would show up as having test coverage 23:59:07 -!- ejbs [~user@h-30-80.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds]