00:00:44 Sorry, I don't know Lisp, but let's say (define (dawg) (dawg)) (if (= 0 0) 42 (dawg)) 00:01:11 this won't get to infinite recursion, as far as I understand. 00:01:46 that is scheme 00:01:49 not common lisp 00:01:57 fisxoj [~fisxoj@192-0-131-151.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 00:02:14 but you won't get infinite recursion, correct 00:04:09 stassats: as I said, I don't know much about Lisps, please don't be mad at me, but thanks for correcting me. Thing is that I just got mindblown by the question how to write IF in Lisp? Anyway, I don't want to waste your time, so I'll take IF is not a function as a direction to research. 00:05:01 magbo: It's a 'special form' if I remember correctly. 00:05:18 no need to remember, it can always be looked up 00:05:19 clhs if 00:05:19 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_if.htm 00:05:47 you can't really write IF without using it somewhere under the hood 00:06:14 you can use lambda calculus, but then everything will have to be lambda calculus 00:07:27 http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/MetaCircular.html has some thoughts on the matter 00:08:40 how can you implement GET without IF? 00:09:01 stassats: cool, thanks, that's more or less the idea I had. But then I read somewhere that special forms are syntax sugar in Lisps and failed to imagine to what does if expand then. I guess that the Internet is full of lies :( 00:12:03 I thought special forms where form which had normal order instead of applicative order. 00:12:40 and what is that? 00:13:36 nilsi [~nilsi@183.245.65.242] has joined #lisp 00:13:45 -!- DalekBaldwin [~Adium@12.145.136.107] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:16:10 i don't see why you ought call it some fancy thought up names, when it can be easily described as "functions evaluate their arguments from left to right before being called", and "special operators and macros do whatever they like" 00:16:14 that's why they're named "special" 00:17:18 kingless [~user@108-65-61-54.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:18:10 but i guess computer science is all about giving terms which doesn't have any meaning 00:18:28 -!- knob5312 [~knob@66-50-3-27.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:21:10 PuercoPop: i looked up this "normal" thing, and no, special operators don't do that 00:21:11 I'd imagine macros as being lisps macros as being it's "syntax sugars". Lisp's special forms are more like the statements other languages 00:21:29 *of other languages 00:21:40 PuercoPop: special operators may do things like modify the environment, transfer the control, and so on 00:22:06 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:10 only IF can be described as being a lazy function, LET cannot be 00:23:20 -!- andreh [~andreh@177.133.52.29.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 00:23:41 andreh [~andreh@177.133.52.29.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 00:24:55 stassats: saying applicative order is shorter 00:25:11 stassats: because I'm a lazy typist. I don't have a CS background nor like to cast a shroud on my own ignorance by hiding it under terms I can't explain in layman terms (Not that they aren't a lot I don't such as special operators apparently) 00:25:18 magbo: if it provokes 10 more questions, it isn't 00:25:33 -!- WarWeasle [~brad@162.72.14.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:25:41 why do we have terms group, ring, lattice? 00:26:10 magbo: to confuse the newcomers and keep the ivory tower to yourself? 00:27:04 So special operators have nothing in common except that they don't behave in the regular order? So they are the operators with which we define they rest of the language? 00:27:24 right 00:30:54 though given only the set of special operators you still can't implement the full common lisp 00:31:13 for example, special operators won't help you to define OPEN or PRINT 00:31:25 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 00:33:21 -!- Aramur [~arare@135.Red-79-148-14.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Aramur] 00:33:23 -!- arare [~Aramur@153.68.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: arare] 00:33:40 and magbo the way wikipedia describes "Applicative order", common lisp doesn't have that 00:33:43 should have been "magbo: and" 00:35:48 -!- breakds [~breakds@c-24-0-146-43.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:36:59 stassats: interesting. I'll try to fix my misconceptions about Common Lisp by reading things when I've got time :) Thank you so much for providing context, sir. 00:38:54 (as for ivory towers  in mathematics they have to grow abstraction level, ritght? and to do that they label things creating (mental) shortcuts and building terminologies) 00:39:55 group, ring and lattice are much more well defined 00:40:16 as opposed to evaluation orders, on some of which people can't even agree 00:42:43 agreed. More than that, I guess that I understand your bitter i guess computer science is all about giving terms which doesn't have any meaning. as far as I understand it  there is a branch of mathematics which is called theory of computation and derivatives of it in theoretical computer science and the mysterious computer science where the terms like evaluation strategy come from. 00:43:19 it was more a comment about "normal", there's nothing normal about it 00:43:30 Normal? 00:43:45 magbo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaluation_strategy#Normal_order 00:44:01 Ah, this second evaluation strategy. 00:44:10 what makes it normal? more common? it isn't? maybe more perpendicular? 00:44:44 and the word "applicative" is not very descriptive either 00:44:55 "eager" and "lazy" are far more easier to remember 00:45:06 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-180-26-144.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:46:45 stassats: notes and references are also interesting btw  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evaluation_strategy#Notes 00:47:44 anyhow, it's not really relevant to common lisp 00:47:44 hmm, I wonder where did I pick this English term? (not my first language, obviously). 00:48:08 sure. is there offtopic channel for #lisp? 00:48:40 and for short, you can call it "the common-lisp order" 00:48:48 there's #lispcafe, but i hear it's dead 00:48:51 ish 00:50:57 DalekBaldwin [~Adium@75-142-59-12.static.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:52:55 -!- DalekBaldwin [~Adium@75-142-59-12.static.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:59:51 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 01:00:56 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@183.245.65.242] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:00:58 zerowaitstate [~dwaites@75.23.43.147] has joined #lisp 01:01:07 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.154.97.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:01:34 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.154.97.132] has joined #lisp 01:01:54 nilsi [~nilsi@183.245.65.242] has joined #lisp 01:05:11 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@183.245.65.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:05:50 nilsi [~nilsi@183.245.65.242] has joined #lisp 01:10:39 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:11:22 ssqq [~perlvim@58.253.216.135] has joined #lisp 01:12:20 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@183.245.65.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:12:43 -!- zerowaitstate [~dwaites@75.23.43.147] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:13:18 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:14:29 Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.232.30.93] has joined #lisp 01:14:55 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:16:15 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.37.145] has joined #lisp 01:16:22 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.37.145] has quit [Changing host] 01:16:22 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 01:18:37 LiamH [~none@96.231.222.26] has joined #lisp 01:21:18 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.79] has joined #lisp 01:24:48 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 01:30:43 -!- kingless [~user@108-65-61-54.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: too embarrassed to say] 01:32:17 -!- ssqq [~perlvim@58.253.216.135] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:42:24 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 01:45:02 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host5.186-125-116.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:49:47 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 01:51:11 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 01:52:56 SrPx [~SrPx@177.133.128.167] has joined #lisp 01:53:50 k0001 [~k0001@host5.186-125-116.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 01:54:37 lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has joined #lisp 01:57:18 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.154.97.132] has quit [Quit: Disconnecting -- bye] 01:57:39 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.148.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:58:07 Hmm, is there a way in sbcl to get the existing environment as a list, suitable for passing as an argument to run-program via :environment? 01:59:10 (sb-ext:posix-environ) 01:59:39 Thanks. 01:59:52 makes sense only if you want to append something to it 02:01:18 there probably could be :augment-environment 02:01:22 Or prepend? (Or otherwise augment/modify?) 02:01:47 that could be cheaper than encoding the whole environment if you only just want to add something, not replace everything 02:01:54 chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:02:07 I just want to add one thing, and this seems like the best way to do it. 02:02:17 currently, yes 02:02:26 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 02:02:40 i'm looking into making it better 02:03:53 -!- zacharias_ [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:03:54 ikki [~ikki@187.208.148.93] has joined #lisp 02:04:15 OK! cool. 02:06:08 __stdout_ [~Nico@p549F6FC8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 02:06:14 and we don't protect against "Conforming multi-threaded applications shall not use the environ variable to access or modify any environment variable while any other thread is concurrently modifying any environment variable." 02:06:17 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 02:06:21 so, if you pass :environment, beware about this 02:06:38 gmcastil [~user@ip-64-134-27-168.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:53 no :environment doesn't touch environ anymore 02:07:26 -!- __stdout [~Nico@p549F688B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:07:26 -!- __stdout_ is now known as __stdout 02:07:52 Uh oh. I was hoping to do something like that. 02:08:40 nevermind, it only happens in the fork 02:08:49 Hmm, well, what I'm really doing is doing a lot of sb-ext:run-programs in parallel, each with a unique value for a particular environment variable. 02:09:15 should be ok, after all 02:12:27 good good 02:14:47 :augment-environment will also help with character decoding errors in the existing environment 02:14:51 besides just consing less 02:15:01 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-043-120-047.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:15:15 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:16:48 -!- Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has left #lisp 02:19:10 interesting, (sb-ext:run-program "uname" () :search t) is quite slower than (ccl:run-program "uname" ()) 02:21:54 Gosh, sb-ext:atomic-incf is much more complicated to use than I thought it might be. And the semantics are different from regular incf. 02:22:41 -!- quasisane [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:22:46 Not just the modular arithmetic, but returning the old value vs. new value seems ripe for accidents. 02:22:53 quasisane [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:10 (sb-sys:enable-interrupt sb-unix:sigchld :default), which commonqt happens to do, seems to affect sb-ext:run-program 02:24:43 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:3b84:aca0:897:df24:98ac:4d94] has joined #lisp 02:24:52 munge [~user@cpe-098-024-201-145.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:25:33 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:29:27 ggoes [~user@fsf/member/ggoes] has joined #lisp 02:29:35 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:3b84:aca0:897:df24:98ac:4d94] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:32:55 -!- loke [~loke@203.127.16.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:35:01 loke [~loke@203.127.16.194] has joined #lisp 02:41:23 teggi [~teggi@123.20.116.221] has joined #lisp 02:48:54 Harag [~Thunderbi@41.27.93.37] has joined #lisp 02:51:28 -!- hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:56:09 przl_ [~przlrkt@p5B298D8B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 02:56:09 motionman [~motionman@unaffiliated/motionman] has joined #lisp 02:58:08 sabra [~sabra@67.174.222.215] has joined #lisp 02:58:38 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B29804E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 02:59:08 konr [~user@179.99.186.240] has joined #lisp 03:01:42 -!- LiamH [~none@96.231.222.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:07:48 -!- Dawgmatix [~user@pool-100-1-31-214.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:11:16 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host5.186-125-116.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:15:22 -!- ggoes [~user@fsf/member/ggoes] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:17:34 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@ip68-99-254-231.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:17:59 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@musicbrainz/user/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 03:25:24 -!- ikki [~ikki@187.208.148.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:25:42 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:30:24 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-043-120-047.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 03:36:20 Anybody been able to build latest GCL release on MacOS 10.8.4? 03:37:12 Running as Lisp one of the first times in generating a Lisp image, it bus errors and then deletes the executable it just ran. 03:39:30 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:41:52 -!- tiksa [~tiksa@93-87-107-94.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Pozdrav] 03:42:29 ikki [~ikki@201.165.170.26] has joined #lisp 03:43:15 k0001 [~k0001@host241.190-226-194.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 03:43:29 patrickwonders: Why are you trying to build GCL? 03:43:45 GCL is obsolete, incomplete and hasn't been updated in a decade 03:44:04 It was updated twice in the last month. I wanted to check it out. 03:44:15 they just adapted it for newer compilers 03:44:18 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@192-0-131-151.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:45:55 autom8tr [autom8r@192.94.73.30] has joined #lisp 03:46:15 Okay I still have an old cmucl around, ecl, abcl, ccl, sbcl, clisp, and a trial version of allegro. I don't intend to use it for development, but I want to know if any of my libs don't run on it. 03:46:53 patrickwonders: not much runs on gcl anyway :-) 03:47:29 So your answer then is that you haven't tried it ;) 03:47:36 patrickwonders: I have 03:47:43 On Mac OS 10.8.4? 03:47:53 Not the latest though, but there are no functional changes in it, so I fail to see th epoint. 03:48:08 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-24.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 03:48:10 No. I'm running 10.7 on my macs 03:48:11 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 03:48:25 But who cares, gcl hasn't changed functionally in 10 years 03:49:15 I care. I want to build it. I just don't want to waste energy figuring out what's going wrong in the build if someone already has. 03:49:40 To each his own, I guess. 03:50:00 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:50:04 arrsim [~user@128.250.116.164] has joined #lisp 03:50:07 alezost [~user@128-70-203-176.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 03:50:19 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:50:45 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.165.170.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:51:09 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-043-120-047.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: conversation closed by nothing] 03:53:02 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:56:09 DalekBaldwin [~Adium@75-142-59-12.static.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:56:55 -!- void64 [~luke@178.122.126.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:57:18 -!- autom8tr [autom8r@192.94.73.30] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:59:18 -!- gmcastil [~user@ip-64-134-27-168.public.wayport.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:01:16 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-21-121-73.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:02:02 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@120.154.115.156] has joined #lisp 04:02:35 namtsui [~user@c-76-21-121-73.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:29 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 04:05:02 itwasntme [~itwasntme@unaffiliated/itwasntme] has joined #lisp 04:05:27 its wrong to make fun of people with speech impediments 04:05:30 -!- itwasntme [~itwasntme@unaffiliated/itwasntme] has left #lisp 04:08:36 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.232.30.93] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:15:22 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:18:59 -!- fogus|gone [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:23:52 -!- przl_ [~przlrkt@p5B298D8B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:25:44 -!- swflint-tab [~swflint@fsf/member/swflint] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:25:59 swflint-tab [~swflint@fsf/member/swflint] has joined #lisp 04:27:30 -!- ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:34:04 ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:40:00 ingvar [~Adium@63.229.10.54] has joined #lisp 04:41:30 Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has joined #lisp 04:45:21 Munksgaard [~philip@80-71-132-106.u.parknet.dk] has joined #lisp 04:49:29 -!- ingvar [~Adium@63.229.10.54] has left #lisp 04:50:56 przl [~przlrkt@p5B298D8B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 04:52:15 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:54:55 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-132-113.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:56:05 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-84-44-209-29.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 05:01:02 -!- ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:10:19 -!- karswell [~user@87.112.183.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:11:49 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.99] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:11:58 -!- Codynyx [~cody@75.72.187.16] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:12:32 -!- eeezkil [~eeezkil@unaffiliated/eeezkil] has quit [Quit: ^D] 05:13:46 yacks [~py@103.6.159.99] has joined #lisp 05:16:18 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:24:24 sdemarre [~serge@109.134.165.148] has joined #lisp 05:30:08 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-196-161-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 05:32:30 kslqs [6570abb6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.101.112.171.182] has joined #lisp 05:32:35 Here is a challenge: http://pastebin.com/pBJByC75 05:32:55 *** - READ from #: an object cannot start with #\) 05:33:06 wtf is up with the cryptic error messages 05:33:24 sounds like it's saying you have more )s than (s. 05:33:40 Bike: i assume its something like that 05:35:05 ok i fixed the parenthese 05:35:15 now theres a new error :/ 05:35:45 oh this also has to do with parentheses 05:36:41 -!- sdemarre [~serge@109.134.165.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:36:45 it won't be cryptic if you tried reading it 05:37:39 stassats: it makes it seem like it has something to do with (read) 05:37:56 try renaming your file to .lisp 05:38:09 it won't fix your problem but it'll make me respect you more. 05:38:31 now there is an infinite loop :P 05:39:33 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d011a25.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 05:41:01 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.99] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:42:12 ok fixed it 05:43:18 congratulations 05:43:27 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:44:00 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 05:45:32 oleo_ 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Unicode, threads, windows support, new architectures, new concurrency libs... 09:18:30 ^ sbcl 09:19:10 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o fe[nl]ix 09:19:22 grubnik: SBCL and CMUCL, unlike GCL, are fairly compliant (there are possibly some minor differences, but I have never encountered anything real) 09:20:03 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:20:05 grubnik: Please inform me where SBCL fails ANSI complicance 09:20:12 i use lw, always had problems with sbcl and ansi stuff.. 09:20:39 p_l, loke: stop feeding the troll 09:21:11 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:21:31 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 09:21:53 on unrelated note, it's interesting that someone apparently decided to pick up GCL again 09:22:00 grubnik: "always had problems". Then it should be easy to explain what the problem is, no? 09:22:10 fe[nl]ix: Yeah, you're right. I'll stop 09:22:18 loke: alas, i don't have time or get paid for fixing sbcl stuff. 09:22:48 lw has far better support anyway 09:22:59 p_l: Isn't it the same guy? He's always maintained it, patching problems as they are reported. No development has been done though, and as far as I can tell, none has been done this time either. 09:23:33 hiroakip [~hiroaki@p54A6A380.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:23:45 grubnik: Fair enough. I was, however, merely asking for an example. Something that should be easy enough if it is, as you say, so wholly incompatible with the spec. 09:24:03 loke: 2.6.8 seems to have a bunch of changes that are a bit bigger than just bugfixes 09:24:25 p_l: I read through it. I didn't see any functional changes at all. Did I miss something? 09:24:34 loke: several things related to LOOP 09:25:22 Wouldn't surpise me. My GCL standards, LOOP is very new. It was one of the last features to be added before development dies. 09:25:23 died. 09:25:51 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:26:25 fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has joined #lisp 09:26:27 loop should never have been added to CL ... and it is probobly one of the oldest cruftiest parts of the language. 09:26:44 *easye* loves me some LOOP. 09:27:09 grubnik: You're in the minority, but everyone is entitled to an opinion. 09:27:17 >still being mad about the standard now 09:27:19 oh jeez 09:28:23 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 09:28:31 alezost` [~user@128-70-205-38.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 09:28:31 loke: in the minority of what? that loop is a crufty construct? 09:28:32 -!- alezost` [~user@128-70-205-38.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:28:40 it is... a wonderful construct, but crufty 09:28:47 grubnik: Yes. Your opinion is in the minority 09:29:08 grubnik: How would you want to see it improved? 09:29:36 loke: i wouldn't. it doesn't change the fact that it is crufty. 09:29:43 grubnik: you made your opinion known, you may stop now 09:31:26 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-207-154.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:31:33 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-26-134-102.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 09:33:14 -!- benkard [~benkard@2a01:198:6d5:0:9c5e:7e08:f3c4:5e73] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:33:23 fe[nl]ix: if having worked on the original mit loop macro which later became the one in cl is opinion, well sure by me... kids these days 09:35:02 re 09:35:02 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-98-217.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:35:07 benkard [~benkard@2a01:198:6d5:0:9c5e:7e08:f3c4:5e73] has joined #lisp 09:36:42 Kvaks [~kvaks@148.5.200.37.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 09:36:46 grubnik: Using LOOP, I can efficiently transcribe procedural code from an Algol-like language (C, Java, etc.) into a much more concise, maintainable representation. 09:36:57 How do you see it as crufty? 09:37:23 -!- Kvaks [~kvaks@148.5.200.37.customer.cdi.no] has left #lisp 09:37:50 grubnik: if being a kid means bitching less, then good :) 09:38:11 -!- ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:38:23 alezost [~user@128-70-205-38.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 09:38:53 kladk: I've been meaning to them for a while but I haven't. 09:40:43 I would restrict LOOP to reasonably simple cases. 09:41:25 LOOP is inextensible, and can easily turn into incomprehensible gibberish if care is not taken. 09:41:41 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:42:14 -!- Munksgaard [~philip@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:44:47 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:45:58 easye: if transcription is important, then i would change the reader to accept the language in question. 09:46:50 Harag [~Thunderbi@41.13.68.196] has joined #lisp 09:49:12 grubnik: Well, yes if I trusted the source is question. 09:49:37 Zhivago: why would you want to do that? The problem with LOOP is that it has some annoying restrictions, not that it's restricted enough. 09:50:03 grubnik: ITER is LOOP without the insane parts where it pretends to be a broken dialect of English 09:50:08 But it is more that I use the C as "pseudo-code" as I transcribe the alogrithim. Afterwards, I maintain it a piece of Lisp rather than the transcription. 09:50:36 mathrick: mm... from my experience, which is not alot with ITER is that it is just LOOP with parens.... i couldn't see the benefit over it 09:50:41 and drewc made a sketch of reimplementation of ITER without treewalking, which avoids certain edge cases you can run into in ITER given its extensible treatment of macros 09:50:57 mathrick: nice 09:51:35 grubnik: it removes many cases which are ill-conceived in LOOP; many of them because it has explicit mechanisms to do things LOOP tried to do with abuse of its "English" 09:51:50 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:52:03 http://common-lisp.net/project/iterate/doc/Differences-Between-Iterate-and-Loop.html#Differences-Between-Iterate-and-Loop 09:52:26 mathrick: i might be just used to LOOP :-) didn't see ITER as being that much better ... 09:52:26 grubnik: overall, I'm pretty happy with ITER, and I should take up that reimplementation and finish it one day 09:53:43 grubnik: it's nothing fundamental at any point (aside from extensibility, I guess. That one's pretty big compared to CL LOOP, not so much MIT LOOP), but a lot of warts and stupidities that add up to an unpleasant experience with LOOP 09:55:22 yakov__ [~yakov@lagarm-9.ip.PeterStar.net] has joined #lisp 09:55:23 i wish they would have skipped LOOP in CL ... it can be implemented as a library, and one could have used MIT LOOP as a basis... oh well 09:55:34 it's easier to write because ordinary CL indentation works, easier to read because it has mostly the same rules as ordinary CL and not some bizzaro dialect that's neither CL nor English. Because it doesn't have contorted syntax, it doesn't have a whole host of gotchas related to what binds to what and where you need PROGN. It removes quirks of implicit shadowing and just gives you variables for previous and next iterator value 09:55:40 it has generalised drivers 09:55:57 nod 09:56:14 might try using ITER again ... 09:56:53 and it's extensible too, which is not something you absolutely need every day, but it can come handy when you have a particularly heavy user in your code somewhere 09:57:15 void64 [~luke@37.212.119.97] has joined #lisp 09:58:42 bitonic [~user@cust.static.81-63-183-2.swisscomdata.ch] has joined #lisp 09:58:43 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:59:04 -!- DalekBaldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:59:11 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 09:59:18 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:59:31 -!- yakov__ [~yakov@lagarm-9.ip.PeterStar.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:02:30 -!- benkard [~benkard@2a01:198:6d5:0:9c5e:7e08:f3c4:5e73] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:02:51 -!- bitonic [~user@cust.static.81-63-183-2.swisscomdata.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:03:24 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@185.3.146.222] has joined #lisp 10:04:35 yakov__ [~yakov@lagarm-9.ip.PeterStar.net] has joined #lisp 10:04:37 ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 10:04:54 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 10:05:16 benkard [~benkard@2a01:198:6d5:0:9c5e:7e08:f3c4:5e73] has joined #lisp 10:05:57 Okasu [~1@94.25.229.98] has joined #lisp 10:05:57 -!- Okasu [~1@94.25.229.98] has quit [Changing host] 10:05:57 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #lisp 10:08:14 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-98-217.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 10:08:23 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 10:09:06 -!- matko [~matko@ip82-139-74-40.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:09:29 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 10:11:54 Don't SBCL's extensible sequences work with LOOP? 10:12:12 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:13:09 mathrick: when it comes to performance critical code, i just use cffi or such ...but we do hft so different rules apply than what the rest of the planet needs :-) 10:13:28 grubnik: hft? 10:13:35 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 10:13:36 high frequency trading 10:13:39 ah 10:13:56 well yeah, HFT is allowed to do whatever it wants if needed 10:14:19 GrayMagiker [~Steve@c-67-164-129-95.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:15:02 grubnik: I didn't necessarily mean "heavy" in the sense of performance, though, only syntactically heavy. Extensible iteration clauses do nothing you couldn't do by hand, just like macros in general simply write your code for you 10:15:13 What exactly is the point of CFFI for "performance critical code"? 10:16:09 gleag: you call out to Fortran or C when you really need to do something that is particularly well-suited for being done in C or Fortran and needs to be fast 10:16:25 exactly 10:16:33 FPGAs are still better ;) 10:16:40 which doesn't have to be often; SBCL can be scarily fast 10:16:41 p_l: oh definitly 10:16:49 mathrick: I'd expect that to have to go through a foreign calling convention. 10:17:09 That's good for using libraries, but doen't sound like a good idea for high frequency calls. 10:17:11 gleag: that's why you normally code the whole inner loop in C/Fortran 10:17:11 that was of course a nod towards NovaSparks that uses CL and FPGAs for HFT :) 10:17:26 mathrick: eww! :/ 10:17:29 so that your callout has little overhead compared to the volume of work one 10:17:31 *done 10:17:50 hydan [~hydan@ip-89-103-110-5.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 10:18:01 So the quesion becomes "what does C offer for doing high performance code that Lisp doesn't"? 10:18:06 gleag: dunno, not more eww than just saying "damn it, gotta redo in C" 10:18:17 gleag: cheap programmers 10:18:31 æh, you don't want cheap programmers to be writing your perf-critical code 10:18:42 mathrick: it was a joke :-) 10:18:47 oh heh 10:19:31 In the past weeks, I've given a serious thought to the idea of "why rewrite high performance code in C when C forces you to lower your high-lever operators and C compilers are lousy at recovering the high-level invariants"? 10:19:32 gleag: as I said, a lot of the time nothing, if you hit one of SBCL's sweet spots it can be scarily fast and actually speedier than C (probably not Fortran, though, because Fortran has a sane type system without aliasing) 10:19:38 s/\?/./ 10:19:44 yeah 10:19:55 gleag: sometimes C is better suited since the compiler can do a better job, we are talking about shaving anything that can be shaved 10:19:59 sometimes ... lisp. 10:20:11 specially if you instrument the compiler a bit 10:20:13 if I really had speed-critical numerical code, I'd probably bite the bullet and learn Fortran 10:20:15 grubnik: actually, it can't. At least in some areas. 10:20:29 gleag: depends on what "it" is 10:20:58 mathrick: we use some fortran too ... 10:21:02 if it's densely-packed byte-level structures, C has an edge because it has no other tools than byte-level structures, so there's nothing else in the language to interfere 10:21:07 grubnik: I 10:21:12 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:21:12 'd fully expect you to! 10:21:23 :-) 10:21:24 For example, the specific case I was thinking about was "if APL-style operators contain information necessary for cheap vectorization, why not use a library of macros and compiler macros to directly generate LAP". 10:21:28 though it still amazes me that F90 *added* dynamic memory allocation 10:21:36 as in, F77 and below had none? 10:21:55 gleag: that is, in general, a better approach to optimisation 10:21:57 Instread of having a C compiler trying to "intelligently" recover the dependencies and invariants from nested loops. 10:22:06 C is a terribly lousy language for optimised code 10:22:21 *gleag* really seriously considers a native APL-style array library for CL. 10:22:36 (For image processing and stuff.) 10:22:39 mathrick: old fortran had only static allocation 10:22:40 seriously, the fact that C happened has set back compiler research some 20 years 10:22:51 p_l: and no library mechanism 10:22:52 ? 10:23:09 mathrick: define "library mechanism" 10:23:26 malloc(), or other kind of vendor extension 10:23:45 mathrick: vendor extensions were definitely possible 10:23:47 gleag: go for it 10:24:01 (and C programmers are quite cheap compared to a lisp programmer ...) 10:24:13 Sure, once I decipher CCL's LAP. 10:24:15 mathrick: originally, there was even no recursion that could be done without tricks 10:24:25 Which I need for other reasons anyway. 10:25:03 Anyway, I'd expect today's C-like folks to go for OpenCL instead. 10:25:31 With the possible exception of very large in-memory datasets. 10:25:51 peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has joined #lisp 10:25:54 gleag: depends what you actually need 10:25:55 -!- andreh [~andreh@177.133.52.29.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 10:26:00 Said exception perhaps having an expection in AMD's hUMA. 10:26:23 gleag: nope 10:26:50 p_l: context-free nope isn't often thst useful. :) 10:27:25 gleag: huma doesn't change the nature of GPU's processors, only removes some steps from moving data to/from 10:28:08 p_l: it also means that the memory accessible to GPU is identical with memory accesible to CPU. 10:28:12 and while they are again scalar, I suspect they are still rather optimized toward processing of vector data 10:28:47 Hi, is it possible to feed inferior-shell through *standard-input* (or any CL stream); that is, without having to do something like (inferior-shell:run/ss (format nil "echo ~A | some-command" some-data)) 10:29:05 gleag: for very large datasets you could have already streamed the data at quite high rates 10:29:22 gleag: in fact, huma seems to optimize *small* datasets 10:29:43 Streamed...I'd be more interested in (semi-)random access data structures. 10:30:02 gleag: gpus don't do random access well, afaik 10:30:26 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:30:36 p_l: that's one of the reasons for hUMA, if I understood it correctly. 10:30:49 gleag: no. huma doesn't impact that aspect at all 10:31:19 p_l: That it allows for making systems in which GPU accesses regular DRAMs with lower bandwith but also with lower latency 10:31:20 because that's an issue with the processing units, not memory controller unit 10:31:26 DalekBaldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 10:31:34 compared to GDDR which are better for coherent access. 10:32:04 gleag: they already had that in APUs 10:32:45 huma simply integrates the GPU into ccHT fabric instead of being "off to the side" using only the memory controllers like it was before, as well as integrates MMUs for the whole socket 10:33:39 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@185.3.146.222] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 10:33:54 this means that you don't have to do explicit DMA transfers for every bit of data between GPU and CPU, because GPU will see the same memory map, including cache coherence control 10:35:26 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:35:44 grubnik: http://tinyurl.com/last-commit-six-month-ago http://tinyurl.com/monthly-commits http://tinyurl.com/last-commit-yesterday http://tinyurl.com/last-commit-before-VCS-existed 10:36:03 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:36:49 (the first two would actually be commits every six+ months, commit every day). 10:37:12 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:3b84:aca0:897:df24:98ac:4d94] has joined #lisp 10:38:27 p_l: I know, but my understanding was that hUMA ought to allow for having large systems with a mixture of different memory chips for the unified address space. 10:39:02 Obviously, without having an API for saying "place my trees into DDR and my matrices into GDDR", that would be pointless. 10:39:09 gleag: That's an old thing on AMD 10:39:13 I have no idea what they are planning in that area. 10:39:23 also, HUMA is for APUs, not external GPUs 10:39:41 no GDDR for you ;) 10:40:21 although new APUs supposedly have memory controllers that are compatible with both DDR3 and GDDR5 protocol (the latter changes some semantics of DDR3 and that's all, iirc) 10:40:23 I don't see a reason why an APU chip couldn't have a heterogeneous mix of memories. 10:40:38 Especially in an era of ARM mobile chips with a heterogeneous mix of cores. 10:40:59 gleag: because costs of making custom boards and packaging 10:41:26 The worst thing, though, is that attempting to write a heterogeneous Lisp compiler will hit the brick wall of silly drivers. ;/ 10:41:52 p_l: I'm pretty sure that HPC people are doing that anyway. 10:42:18 gleag: HPC people can order things like AMD Horus and such 10:42:58 and in general had access to things that could be considered "huma" since 2005 or earlier 10:43:35 p_l: Nifty! Now if only AMD also had good CPU execution units. ;) 10:43:41 in general, GPU is this big specialized DSP with tons of cruft 10:43:55 gleag: there's a strong suspicion that GPUs are the reason AMD stalled with CPUs 10:44:40 because of the effort needed to integrate GPU and CPU stuff, leading to loses in terms of how well the CPU parts could be optimized 10:45:14 p_l: which would limit the performance of this Horus stuff, I suppose? 10:45:42 Talking of speed, I had noticed that ACL compiler is actually really good, even compared to SBCL. ;/ 10:45:55 gleag: Horus is old stuff, but probably the easiest to find example of just what can be done with AMD chips 10:45:55 ACL's compiler... 10:46:27 basically, Horus was what allowed 64 socket computers back with first-gen opterons 10:46:56 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:47:16 yacks [~py@103.6.159.99] has joined #lisp 10:47:23 extra routing chips + infiniband interconnect between nodes 10:47:32 dkordic [~danilo@93-87-124-217.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 10:49:28 Then why you're saying that HPC would order it? I'd assume that recent AMD chips are better even without the custom glue. 10:49:34 HPC people... 10:49:46 gleag: these days there are newer parts 10:49:53 (the basics of the tech are the same, though) 10:50:05 also, if you violate the AMD spec a bit, you can get interesting results 10:50:06 Here is a fun challenge: http://pastebin.com/VAhXUEj5 10:50:27 (some of the Sun storage servers did, getting twice the I/O bandwidth) 10:51:43 antonv_ [5d7d2a42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.66] has joined #lisp 10:55:07 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-98-217.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:55:22 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-98-217.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 10:56:01 gleag: quite recently I've seen a bunch of 2U servers modded with custom interconnect that connected the ccHT fabrics of the Opterons inside into one big computer, all over infiniband 10:56:21 the original Horus might be outdated, but the tech didn't disappear :) 10:57:02 What's the latency of that stuff? I've had a thought about a Lisp impl. with a distributed heap. :) 10:57:16 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-180-111.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:57:26 gjcross [~gjcross@ppp118-209-22-58.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:59:00 gleag: a Lisp running on top of it would automatically have distributed heap, actually 10:59:12 it looks like normal computer with a lot of cores 10:59:51 kladk: "unknown paste id" 11:00:02 Ah, I thought that was userspace stuff. Sounds eve cooler. 11:00:07 distributed heap like heap per task? like rust? 11:00:27 or shared objects 11:00:46 Shared, I guess. 11:01:02 gleag: however, there are probably ways to manage locality of various parts of address space (as there is for task affinity) 11:01:18 Should play well with generational GC, though. I assume most GCs today lock the tenured space pages against writes. 11:01:18 just remember, that distance in NUMA is important 11:01:54 I guess that depends on the language. 11:02:25 Fortran programs works with the memory in a somewhat different way. 11:02:39 Does the system allow for local copies of write-protected pages? 11:03:08 gleag: http://i.imgur.com/FBbUIy8.png <--- (in)famous screenshot of htop. CPUs are Opteron 6174, two of them in each host. Pretty much a stack of normal 2U x86 servers. 11:03:29 grubnik: http://pastebin.com/qNaPkPdX 11:03:42 nilsi [~nilsi@183.245.65.242] has joined #lisp 11:03:49 gleag: technically such a thing is possible, don't know about practical cases. Though write-locked pages exhibit better cache behaviour 11:04:04 If so, then the largest portion of the heap shouldn't be significantly different to work with than the heap of a generationally GC'd Lisp. 11:04:16 hello, is it possible to use reduce with and (reduce #'and list)? 11:04:35 -!- void64 [~luke@37.212.119.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:04:44 hiroakip: It ought to be. 11:05:52 hiroakip: Also, http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/f_everyc.htm 11:06:03 joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:06:14 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@TK212017097035.teleweb.at] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 11:06:30 hiroakip: no 11:06:37 o.k. i'll have a look 11:06:38 hiroakip: AND is a macro 11:06:58 w0rm_x [~dd@41.223.160.170] has joined #lisp 11:07:46 o.k. and macros can't be used there? why is it like this? 11:07:51 Oh, bummer. I forgot that one. 11:07:55 hiroakip: because macros are not functions. 11:08:31 hiroakip: What you probably want is (remove nil list) 11:08:57 But (every #'identity list) probably does what you want. 11:09:10 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ctqnsdkojydbirrz] has joined #lisp 11:09:24 gleag: same result, although the remove is likely to be faster 11:10:40 ahh, i get it thank you very much! 11:10:58 Are you sure it gives the same result? 11:11:47 Try (every #'identity '(t t nil t)) (every #'identity '(t t t t)) 11:12:26 ah, yes. silly me 11:12:38 -!- yakov__ [~yakov@lagarm-9.ip.PeterStar.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:12:43 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@183.245.65.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:13:17 nilsi [~nilsi@46.165.220.223] has joined #lisp 11:13:48 hm, i think it wasn't wath i thought of. i just wanted to get nil if any part of the list is nil 11:14:24 hiroakip: That's exactly what (every #'identity list) does. 11:14:28 hiroakip: Anyway, the reason you can't use macros as predicates is that they are (or can be) evalutaed at compile time, at which point you don't know how it will be called. 11:14:35 nilsi_ [~nilsi@183.245.65.242] has joined #lisp 11:14:36 (every #'identity '(t t t t)) -> t 11:14:40 (every #'identity '(t t nil t)) -> nil 11:15:09 i am trying this at the moment, thanks :) 11:16:40 ahh, great. this is what a wanted 11:17:56 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@46.165.220.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:18:05 kladk: doing your homework? 11:18:20 grubnik: no 11:18:51 arnsa [~arnsa@78-63-18-208.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 11:19:54 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:22:06 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:22:29 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41.13.68.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:23:44 eff_ [~quassel@123.122.71.85] has joined #lisp 11:24:15 -!- antonv_ [5d7d2a42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:24:24 ahh i get it loke. thanks! and this works great for me gleag :) 11:27:14 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-44-67.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:27:56 arare [~Aramur@153.68.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 11:29:10 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.37.145] has joined #lisp 11:29:10 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.37.145] has quit [Changing host] 11:29:10 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 11:29:25 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 11:30:10 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 11:31:37 -!- kladk [65708896@gateway/web/freenode/ip.101.112.136.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:32:11 bitonic [~user@cust.static.81-63-183-2.swisscomdata.ch] has joined #lisp 11:37:13 -!- bitonic [~user@cust.static.81-63-183-2.swisscomdata.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:41:36 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.116.221] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:41:58 teggi [~teggi@123.20.116.221] has joined #lisp 11:44:27 ASau` [~user@p4FF96E41.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:45:18 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@62-165-243-178.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 11:45:18 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@62-165-243-178.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 11:45:18 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:46:04 -!- maxter_ [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 11:46:11 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 11:46:53 davazp [~user@178.167.171.178.threembb.ie] has joined #lisp 11:47:23 -!- ASau [~user@p4FF969B1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:47:41 ejbs [~user@h-30-80.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 11:48:17 -!- DalekBaldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:55:51 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@p54A6A380.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:56:05 cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has joined #lisp 11:58:44 -!- GrayMagiker [~Steve@c-67-164-129-95.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: I don't want to miss a thing] 11:59:34 clmsy_ [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 11:59:35 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:00:04 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:00:20 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 12:01:02 -!- gleag [~gleag@71.175.broadband2.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:01:03 -!- clmsy_ [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:01:26 Would it be a sound idea with implementing a meta-class that ensures that all the slots of the objects created from that class locks w/ bordeaux-threads? 12:01:30 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 12:01:49 Are there any glaring faults in doing that? 12:01:58 tiksa [~tiksa@77-46-233-197.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 12:03:09 -!- naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.0] 12:03:25 void64 [~luke@37.17.115.92] has joined #lisp 12:03:32 naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has joined #lisp 12:04:32 gleag [~gleag@71.175.broadband2.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 12:06:04 BTW, does anyone here use GNU Maxima? Specifically on SBCL? 12:08:02 Oh, there seems to be a #maxima channel here. :) 12:09:13 DalekBaldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:10:37 -!- DalekBaldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:10:58 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:12:03 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.116.221] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:12:06 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@185.3.146.222] has joined #lisp 12:16:09 hiyosi [~skip_it@247.94.30.125.dy.iij4u.or.jp] has joined #lisp 12:18:18 knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has joined #lisp 12:21:58 -!- gjcross [~gjcross@ppp118-209-22-58.lns20.mel4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:23:37 bitonic [~user@xdsl-188-155-179-93.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 12:31:23 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@176.62.116.16] has joined #lisp 12:34:07 -!- bitonic [~user@xdsl-188-155-179-93.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:34:59 ltbarcly [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:51 bitonic [~user@xdsl-188-155-179-93.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 12:36:37 -!- ltbarcly__ [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:37:18 -!- w0rm_x [~dd@41.223.160.170] has quit [Quit: ...] 12:37:19 -!- hydan [~hydan@ip-89-103-110-5.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:38:20 Aramur [~arare@28.Red-81-32-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:39:50 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:45:00 -!- bitonic [~user@xdsl-188-155-179-93.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:45:27 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 12:46:35 -!- nipra [~nipra@61.12.27.114] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:46:52 -!- Aramur [~arare@28.Red-81-32-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Aramur] 12:48:16 Aramur [~arare@28.Red-81-32-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:50 -!- oleo_ [5098faa7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.152.250.167] has quit [] 12:51:06 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:51:57 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 12:52:18 -!- dunk [uid16@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hzckxrqvukbpjxta] has left #lisp 12:52:45 maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has joined #lisp 12:55:09 diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has joined #lisp 12:55:39 -!- xan__ [~xan@80.174.78.227.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:01:11 -!- GuilOooo [~GuilOooo@178.20.70.196] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:08:03 -!- ejbs [~user@h-30-80.a176.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:09:25 GuilOooo [~GuilOooo@178.20.70.196] has joined #lisp 13:09:30 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.238] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:12:28 Odyessus [~odyessus@guest-wlan.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 13:12:52 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.227.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 13:16:18 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-180-111.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:17:14 pavelpenev [~quassel@melontech.com] has joined #lisp 13:22:28 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:25:00 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@guest-wlan.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - 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A hand crafted IRC client] 14:24:25 yakov__ [~yakov@lagarm-9.ip.PeterStar.net] has joined #lisp 14:24:48 francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has joined #lisp 14:24:58 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 14:27:57 -!- gleag_ is now known as gleag 14:28:33 vansloot [~mncoder@c-107-2-68-72.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:52 -!- vansloot [~mncoder@c-107-2-68-72.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:32:19 vansloot [~mncoder@c-107-2-68-72.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:32:40 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:32:55 -!- vansloot is now known as mncoder 14:35:35 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 14:35:48 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:37:03 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@201.165.170.26] has joined #lisp 14:38:43 turduks [~ghfdgfdqg@bzq-79-179-206-224.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 14:38:59 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:26 -!- turduks [~ghfdgfdqg@bzq-79-179-206-224.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:40:05 http://paste.lisp.org/display/138703#1 14:41:03 -!- void64 [~luke@37.17.115.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:41:46 turduks [~ghfdgfdqg@bzq-79-179-206-224.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 14:42:01 -!- turduks [~ghfdgfdqg@bzq-79-179-206-224.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:44:36 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-018-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:39 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:46:06 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:46:23 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192036.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 14:47:13 Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192036.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:32 yacks [~py@103.6.159.99] has joined #lisp 14:51:48 minion: memo for ejbs: Are there any glaring faults in doing that? <-- it seems like ensuring the proper order of locks to avoid priority inversion and deadlocks would be tricky. If you go for locks, you have to ensure you have a method for enforcing ordering 14:51:49 Remembered. I'll tell ejbs when he/she/it next speaks. 14:54:45 Harag [~Thunderbi@41.13.52.14] has joined #lisp 14:55:40 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:56:07 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:46 lukego [~lukego@adsl-84-227-1-191.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 14:57:03 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:57:53 -!- antonv_ [5d7d2a42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:59:41 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@183.245.65.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:17 nilsi [~nilsi@46.165.220.223] has joined #lisp 15:03:00 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 15:05:36 ebw [~user@g230134095.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:08:52 normanrichards [~normanric@63.98.50.138] has joined #lisp 15:10:32 _d3f [~gnu@46.183.216.234] has joined #lisp 15:11:36 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192036.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - 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(directory dir) returns nil. Any hints? 16:04:59 The directory is not empty, just to clarify that. 16:05:40 have you specified *.*? 16:06:44 ikki [c98684ba@gateway/web/freenode/ip.201.134.132.186] has joined #lisp 16:06:50 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@183.245.65.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:07:06 You mean like (directory /dir/*)? Yeah, I forgot to mention that. 16:08:36 -!- j0ni_ is now known as j0ni 16:08:41 (com.gigamonkeys.pathnames:list-directory directory) 16:08:43 no, *.* 16:09:13 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:09:39 -!- goodmanio [k3VB6u4d@gateway/shell/ircrelay.com/x-jgzccebfesfhcvve] has left #lisp 16:10:05 daimrod, I'll look at that, thanks. 16:10:15 stassats, then, no. I don't know what that is. 16:10:47 bioevolgenec: don't tell you're using ECL 16:11:21 stassats, no, Common Lisp with SBCL. 16:11:48 emontes [~Hemp@fiona.ipv6.montes.co] has joined #lisp 16:11:57 -!- emontes [~Hemp@fiona.ipv6.montes.co] has left #lisp 16:12:17 daimrod: that would be at leas fad:list-directory 16:12:24 not com.gigamonkeys.pathnames 16:12:57 then you're just using DIRECTORY wrong 16:14:34 me? 16:14:42 fisxoj [~fisxoj@192-0-131-151.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 16:14:48 stassats: I'll go read the documentation again. For now though, cl-fad:list-directory works correctly. 16:16:27 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:16:38 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@176.62.116.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:17:57 bioevolgenec: it just calls DIRECTORY 16:18:34 stassats, then I'll see how it calls it and see what I did wrong. 16:18:52 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:39 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@63.98.50.138] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 16:20:00 it does (directory #p"/directory/*.*") 16:20:21 gleag [~gleag@71.175.broadband2.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 16:20:30 Harag [~Thunderbi@41.13.52.14] has joined #lisp 16:21:33 but cl-fad list-directory may work better on lisp with brain damaged pathnames, like clisp 16:21:37 or ecl 16:21:49 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:22:30 stassats: Uh huh, thank you! I'm intending to redistribute the application as a binary with sbcl, so I shouldn't need to care for clisp or ecl. 16:24:03 -!- sjl_ is now known as sjl 16:24:10 and ecl can't understand unicode in pathnames 16:24:55 To avoid reinventing the wheel is there a library for thread-safe cache with expiration? 16:27:26 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@185.3.146.222] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 16:28:01 -!- bulibuta [~bulibuta@irofti.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:31:48 -!- compcube [~compcube@pdpc/supporter/student/compcube] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:33:14 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 16:34:15 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 16:34:31 seangrov` [~user@24.249.153.178] has joined #lisp 16:34:36 -!- gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:35:51 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41.13.52.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:37:22 Harag [~Thunderbi@41.13.0.220] has joined #lisp 16:38:11 -!- ndrei_ [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:38:24 naryl: have you seen function-cache? https://github.com/AccelerationNet/function-cache 16:38:46 haven't tried it, but it looks like what you need 16:38:48 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.99] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:38:56 yacks [~py@103.6.159.99] has joined #lisp 16:40:00 -!- recycle [~recycle@2600:1013:b02c:3f89:893c:5931:f902:59bd] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:40:35 How do I specify a function type? 16:41:15 -!- ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:41:30 -!- yakov_ [~yakov@78.25.120.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:42:01 ebw: http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/d_ftype.htm 16:42:49 -!- Lefeni [~Lefeni@c-0941e555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:43:52 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192036.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 16:44:05 gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:29 recycle [~recycle@70.42.240.30] has joined #lisp 16:44:51 ThePhoeron: The only downside I see is that it needs to iterate over whole cache to purge expired entries. Shouldn't be a problem. Thanks. 16:45:13 If I try (declare (ftype (function (integer) boolean) arg1)) in a defun-Body, i get an error, that a function arg1 isn't known? 16:46:32 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:47:50 -!- Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:48:35 davazp` [~user@178.167.171.178.threembb.ie] has joined #lisp 16:48:46 -!- recycle [~recycle@70.42.240.30] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:49:02 -!- capisce [srodal@rs5.risingnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:49:06 usually you'd do it outside of the function 16:49:19 -!- davazp [~user@178.167.171.178.threembb.ie] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:49:21 Ah, it is (declare (type (function (integer) boolean) arg1) I have to use. 16:49:24 oh, wait, you mean you want to declare the type of an argument to be a function? 16:49:25 yeah 16:49:36 ftype is for the function namespace. 16:49:46 But now, I wonder, why slime can't show me the type of arg1 16:49:52 capisce [srodal@rs5.risingnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:09 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 16:52:02 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 16:53:18 (describe 'test) shows the declared type of arg1 as derived type, are there other ways to get this information? 16:53:28 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 16:55:51 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:56:00 przl [~przlrkt@p5B298D8B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:56:03 -!- shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-jzcrplnhoykkyglx] has quit [Quit: shridhar] 16:58:03 nilsi [~nilsi@183.245.65.242] has joined #lisp 16:59:02 Okasu [~1@unaffiliated/okasu] has joined #lisp 17:03:02 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 17:05:15 -!- capisce [srodal@rs5.risingnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:05:58 capisce [~srodal@rs5.risingnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:02 -!- gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:11:36 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B298D8B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:11:40 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:14:45 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 17:15:58 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-196-161-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 17:20:09 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.116.221] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29:18 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:32:25 chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:32:30 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:34:49 -!- davazp` [~user@178.167.171.178.threembb.ie] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:36:18 nipra [~nipra@122.177.243.235] has joined #lisp 17:37:26 bitonic [~user@xdsl-188-155-179-93.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 17:37:33 yacks [~py@103.6.159.99] has joined #lisp 17:37:34 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 17:37:39 turduks [~hddddhd@bzq-109-64-173-32.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:02 -!- turduks [~hddddhd@bzq-109-64-173-32.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:41:54 turduks [~hddddhd@109.64.173.32] has joined #lisp 17:42:11 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 17:42:39 klltkr [~klltkr@host86-136-52-25.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:43:02 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-84-44-209-29.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:43:53 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-143-154.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:44:18 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:44:58 Lefeni [~Lefeni@c-0941e555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:45:24 k-stz [~user@HSI-KBW-095-208-250-187.hsi5.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 17:46:58 -!- tiksa [~tiksa@77-46-233-197.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:48:11 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@host86-136-52-25.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:49:52 ebw: (function-lambda-expression 'test) 17:49:56 gfdgfdg [~hddddhd@109.64.173.32] has joined #lisp 17:50:02 ebw: (documentation 'test 'function) 17:50:09 ebw: (disassemble 'test) 17:51:26 And of course, implementation specific APIs. SWANK may provide a portability layer: swank-backend:arglist 17:51:40 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 17:52:00 -!- gfdgfdg [~hddddhd@109.64.173.32] has quit [Client Quit] 17:52:19 gfdgfdg [~hddddhd@bzq-109-64-173-32.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:52:39 -!- gfdgfdg [~hddddhd@bzq-109-64-173-32.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:53:30 tiksa [~tiksa@77-46-233-197.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 17:53:35 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 17:53:46 pjb: I'm using sbcl (documentation 'test 'function) returns nil and doesn't print anything. Is that supposed to be that way? 17:54:35 It can happen. It's implementation dependant whether docstrings are kept. Check the implementation manual to see on what condition they're kept. 17:54:50 same for function-lambda-expression. 17:55:05 -!- turduks [~hddddhd@109.64.173.32] has quit [] 17:55:09 function-lambda-expression works as expected. 17:55:13 See ibcl if you want to keep the sources in the image. 17:55:33 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-24.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:55:40 http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/com/informatimago/small-cl-pgms/ibcl/ 17:57:26 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:36 pjb: Thanks. Actually I'm searching for a method to display the type of a callback function used as a function parameter in slime. To be clear, typing the call of function1, which expects a callback of certain type, I want slime to display that type in the minibuffer. 17:57:47 -!- nipra [~nipra@122.177.243.235] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:57:50 As I see it, I will have to read the swank/slime source. 17:58:10 Yes, slime and swank should provide what you need. 17:58:44 as far as it is available, that is. 17:59:44 recycle [~recycle@2602:304:b2eb:e570:dda6:5a21:6eca:4e8c] has joined #lisp 18:04:04 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:04:10 -!- recycle [~recycle@2602:304:b2eb:e570:dda6:5a21:6eca:4e8c] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:04:42 zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 18:07:15 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-187-226.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:08:07 -!- lukego [~lukego@adsl-84-227-1-191.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: lukego] 18:08:45 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:09:06 bioevolgenec1 [~dgkontopo@ppp-2-84-43-191.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 18:09:09 -!- bioevolgenec1 [~dgkontopo@ppp-2-84-43-191.home.otenet.gr] has left #lisp 18:10:26 -!- bioevolgenec [~dgkontopo@unaffiliated/bioevolgenec] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:10:50 knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has joined #lisp 18:12:05 yacks [~py@103.6.159.99] has joined #lisp 18:12:06 peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c02b-45.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 18:13:00 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:17:06 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c02b-45.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:18:19 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-httckyfnypraidrm] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:18:20 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:19:53 peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c02b-45.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 18:20:26 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 18:22:31 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:25:12 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-146-135.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:25:22 ubikation [~ubikation@c-67-168-252-238.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:24 join #abcl 18:25:33 whoops 18:27:07 no problem, you may join #abcl ;-) 18:27:19 yacks [~py@103.6.159.99] has joined #lisp 18:29:19 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 18:29:31 DalekBaldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:48 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:33:59 -!- DalekBaldwin [~Adium@ip68-4-133-159.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:34:34 yakov_ [~yakov@128-69-12-163.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 18:34:43 -!- Aramur [~arare@28.Red-81-32-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Aramur] 18:38:32 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@dsl-hkibrasgw3-58c02b-45.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 18:40:07 Vivitron [~Vivitron@c-50-172-44-193.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:56 yakov [~yakov@128-69-12-163.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 18:43:35 ebw` [~user@g226193093.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:45:13 -!- ebw [~user@g230134095.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:46:58 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:47:13 -!- seangrov` [~user@24.249.153.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:51:04 didi` [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 18:52:49 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:52:56 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:53:59 -!- diadara [~diadara@115.249.18.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:58:05 -!- ivan4th [~user@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00:59 -!- yakov_ [~yakov@128-69-12-163.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:02:28 jewel [~jewel@105-236-146-135.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:02:38 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:3b84:aca0:897:df24:98ac:4d94] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:03:08 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 19:03:22 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 19:03:58 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 19:04:41 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.99] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:05:30 gendl [~gendl@c-98-250-10-50.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:03 yacks [~py@103.6.159.99] has joined #lisp 19:07:20 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 19:07:31 Is there a forum software written in CL? 19:08:54 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@72.241.76.188.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:09:57 -!- tiksa [~tiksa@77-46-233-197.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Pozdrav] 19:10:48 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-078-043-120-047.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: lifetime finished because of unexpected error] 19:12:38 -!- milosn [~milosn@user-5af50f1f.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:13:23 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 19:16:05 fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 19:16:08 yakov_ [~yakov@128-69-12-163.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 19:16:42 antonv_ [5d7d2a42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.66] has joined #lisp 19:17:18 abeaumont [~abeaumont@72.241.76.188.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:19:31 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:22:20 is macro-function the right way to test if a symbol is defined as a macro? 19:22:49 -!- yakov [~yakov@128-69-12-163.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:23:38 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@72.241.76.188.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:23:46 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:24:28 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:41 lukego [~lukego@adsl-84-227-1-191.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 19:26:10 I think I'd use fboundp 19:26:36 milosn [~milosn@user-5af50b07.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 19:27:23 WarWeasle [~brad@162.72.14.206] has joined #lisp 19:30:39 ltbarcly: does it seem to work for you? 19:34:18 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-196-161-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:37:07 abeaumont [~abeaumont@95.63.52.205] has joined #lisp 19:37:43 -!- ubikation [~ubikation@c-67-168-252-238.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:41:43 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@185.3.146.222] has joined #lisp 19:42:40 ehu [~ehu@109.32.151.21] has joined #lisp 19:43:52 I'm trying to run Slime on Windows 7, and Emacs is giving: "apply: Spawning child process: invalid argument" 19:43:54 any ideas? 19:44:11 cfdm [~user@c-71-235-86-108.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:19 I'm using CCL, I used quicklisp to download quicklisp-slime-helper and added the suggested lines to ~/.emacs 19:44:25 Adlai: usually, this means that you've not set inferior-lisp-program correctly. 19:45:13 H4ns: It's set to the path to wx86cl.exe, and when I copy+paste that path into cmd, it runs CL 19:45:30 Adlai: backslashes in the path maybe? 19:46:31 I'm using backslashes, but they also work for the path to slime-helper.el before that and Emacs loads that alright... 19:47:38 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-98-217.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:47:42 -!- cfdm [~user@c-71-235-86-108.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has left #lisp 19:48:40 quazimodo [~quazimodo@27.253.98.217] has joined #lisp 19:48:42 switched to double forward slashes (for the emacs string escaping), same error 19:55:10 Aramur [~arare@28.Red-81-32-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:48 milosn_ [~milosn@user-5af50b8a.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:02 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@201.165.170.26] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:57:00 -!- ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:57:05 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-187-226.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:57:06 -!- milosn [~milosn@user-5af50b07.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:58:04 sdemarre [~serge@109.134.165.148] has joined #lisp 19:58:09 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:58:54 ndrei [~avo@83.142.149.227] has joined #lisp 20:00:25 -!- WarWeasle [~brad@162.72.14.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:00:58 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:32 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:32 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41.13.0.220] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:08:38 -!- lukego [~lukego@adsl-84-227-1-191.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: lukego] 20:09:36 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:09:39 lukego [~lukego@adsl-84-227-1-191.adslplus.ch] has joined #lisp 20:11:33 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:25 tiksa [~tiksa@77-46-233-197.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 20:15:31 -!- lukego [~lukego@adsl-84-227-1-191.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: lukego] 20:17:19 hiroakip [~hiroaki@p54A69B52.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:19:47 tried setting the windows environment variable HOME, still didn't help 20:21:47 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-180-111.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:22:14 chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:22:53 -!- ikki [c98684ba@gateway/web/freenode/ip.201.134.132.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 20:23:21 (merge-pathnames (make-pathname :name ".emacs" :case :local) (user-homedir-pathname)) 20:23:45 trello [~user@2.121.97.187] has joined #lisp 20:23:55 quicklisp is awesome 20:24:14 francogrex [~user@109.133.132.91] has joined #lisp 20:24:16 Adlai: this may help (or not, it's for cygwin): http://www.rhinocerus.net/forum/lang-lisp/700351-using-ccl-ms-windows-emacs-cygwin-slime-swank.html 20:24:22 pjb ? 20:24:31 ? 20:24:35 and abandoned project that has/had good potential: https://github.com/shikantaza/lisp-compiler 20:25:01 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-146-135.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:25:55 not sure about suffixed things 20:26:10 sometimes they go with :type rather than :name tho.... 20:26:38 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:54 github changed their interface to prevent displaying abandoned projects and show only the active ones! most of the abandoned projects are good seeds for newer projects even more intersting that the popular ones 20:27:16 pjb: my .emacs is getting loaded, the problem is in running the inferior-lisp... I'll check that link 20:27:18 oleo: right, we may as well use #P"~/.emacs" there, since ccl understands ~ 20:27:30 ah you on ccl ok 20:27:34 Adlai: it will give you at least a framework to solve the problem. 20:28:02 well i was working with beirc on sbcl where i noticed that 20:28:16 someone tried to use it, but not portable enough it seems 20:28:17 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 20:28:34 yes, as expected indeed. 20:28:36 it errored here....so i changed the make-pathname thing in it locally.... 20:28:46 ubikation [~ubikation@c-98-246-194-189.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:49 heh 20:29:05 after looking at pathname oddities..... 20:29:11 fewwwww 20:31:32 pjb: ah, I'm not using Cygwin though... 20:31:55 should I? I was hoping for the most minimal setup to get slime going for a friend 20:32:27 I don't really understand the whole system.asd and system-test.asd. What's up with that? 20:32:42 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:32:44 having a different system for the system and for the test scaffolding around it, that's all 20:33:23 Adlai: you're lucky, my windows machine happens to be up. 20:33:25 but how do I get it running? I've been trying to imitate the testing in fare-matcher because I want to use stefil 20:33:27 Let me see. 20:33:54 (ql:quickload :system) (ql:quickload :system-test) 20:34:27 Adlai: ok, so first observation, I use windows clisp under windows emacs using inferior-lisp :-/ 20:34:27 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 20:36:01 I have ntemacs-24. It takes both "C:\\path\\file.exe" and "c:/path/file.exe" 20:39:11 -!- mncoder [~mncoder@c-107-2-68-72.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mncoder] 20:41:13 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@185.3.146.222] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 20:41:29 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:03 Adlai: ok, so what's your problem? Using (load(expand-file-name "c:/Users/pjb/quicklisp/slime-helper.el")) and (setf inferior-lisp-program "c:/gnu/clisp-2.49/clisp.exe -ansi -q") it works nicely. 20:42:21 ehu` [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:42:35 Even though %HOME% is c:/Users/pjb/AppData/Roaming/ 20:44:00 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44:11 -!- ehu [~ehu@109.32.151.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:44:15 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:44:38 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.227.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:45:47 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@185.3.146.222] has joined #lisp 20:46:15 Adlai: err, in ccl-1.7, the script doesn't seem to take into account windows, only cygwin. 20:46:18 -!- _d3f [~gnu@46.183.216.234] has quit [Quit: ~ Hack you later ~] 20:46:47 The name of the archive for ccl-1.9 is more promizing. 20:48:45 pjb: sorry, I'm back 20:49:09 thanks for helping... I ended up just installing the "latest" Lispbox for him 20:49:14 and it worked out of the box! 20:50:05 milosn [~milosn@user-5af50c69.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 20:50:46 Yes, otherwise ntemacs24 (I got it from ftp.gnu.org, and ccl-1.9-windowsx86 works well too. 20:50:58 -!- alezost [~user@128-70-205-13.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:51:45 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@62-165-243-178.pool.digikabel.hu] has joined #lisp 20:51:45 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@62-165-243-178.pool.digikabel.hu] has quit [Changing host] 20:51:45 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 20:51:50 -!- milosn_ [~milosn@user-5af50b8a.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:53:13 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:53:30 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 20:55:36 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:59:08 gmcastil [~user@75-145-122-2-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:03:50 -!- benkard [~benkard@2a01:198:6d5:0:9c5e:7e08:f3c4:5e73] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:06:05 hey can somebody mention http://lispinsummerprojects.org/ in the irc greeting thingy? it's weird that I learned about that from #emacs first 21:08:21 -!- arnsa [~arnsa@78-63-18-208.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:12:02 summer is gone 21:14:30 :'( 21:15:12 also I can't seem to get my exported function run to work after I quickload the test: https://github.com/ubikation/chemicalambda/blob/master/chemicalambda-test.lisp 21:15:27 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@p54A69B52.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:15:42 -!- sdemarre [~serge@109.134.165.148] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:17:06 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:18:28 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 21:23:04 -!- tiksa [~tiksa@77-46-233-197.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:24:06 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:25:31 -!- ehu` [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:26:34 -!- francogrex [~user@109.133.132.91] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:57 am I exporting it correctly? 21:28:08 jangle_ [~jimmy1984@c-98-233-111-131.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:04 Yes. 21:29:40 in what fashion it doesn't work? 21:29:50 He didn't say. 21:31:32 I'm trying (ql:quickload "chemicalambda-test") and (chemicalambda-test:run) and I get https://gist.github.com/ubikation/6417455 21:32:28 Well, we can play like that all night long. 21:32:34 shifty [~user@114-198-26-180.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 21:32:41 ? 21:32:44 You didn't show what chemicalambda-test.asd contains, what chemicalambda.asd contains etc. 21:33:21 -!- matko [~matko@ip82-139-74-40.lijbrandt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:33:27 sorry! my bad. the repo is https://github.com/ubikation/chemicalambda and the asds are https://github.com/ubikation/chemicalambda/blob/master/chemicalambda.asd and https://github.com/ubikation/chemicalambda/blob/master/chemicalambda-test.asd 21:33:56 The file test.lisp doesn't contain a in-package form. 21:34:17 and it's the only file loaded by chemicallambda-test.asd 21:35:11 Let's forget about the blob and just watch the repo, right? 21:35:21 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-018-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:35:31 pjb: ah thank you! 21:35:32 tiksa [~tiksa@212-200-212-78.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 21:36:24 but it seems that I cannot use the functions exported by stefil without doing the stefil:call? I am already saying :use :stefil... 21:36:44 ql:quickload only loads. 21:37:01 It's up to the file you load to define packages and intern symbols in them. 21:38:06 If you want test.lisp to be read in the chemicalambda-test package, then you need a in-package for at the beginning (you should have one at the beginning of each file in general). 21:38:48 Since you will have several files with in-package the same package, it might be good to put the defpackage form in a separate package.lisp file, on which both files depend. 21:39:03 or test-package.lisp 21:39:04 -!- prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-5f75c469.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:41:04 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@185.3.146.222] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 21:42:19 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:42:30 -!- yakov_ [~yakov@128-69-12-163.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:43:09 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:44:25 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:44:54 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 21:45:28 -!- __stdout [~Nico@p549F6FC8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: __stdout] 21:45:45 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:46:17 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 21:47:30 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 21:48:47 -!- trello [~user@2.121.97.187] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51:11 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54:41 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:59:15 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 22:01:47 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@185.3.146.222] has joined #lisp 22:02:55 francogrex [~user@109.133.132.91] has joined #lisp 22:04:06 Hi, if someone with experience has a few minutes please look at this project http://common-lisp.net/viewvc/cl-x86-asm/cl-x86-asm/?sortby=date and tell me what it is supposed to do. It seems to compile a work fine, especially the x86asm-test.lisp but then what? 22:04:06 -!- macrobat [~beep@h-199-47.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:05:22 just to print the assembled segment, ok - but that's not useful is it? 22:05:50 "Portable X86 assembler in Common Lisp" it says. 22:07:03 Xach: is there a way to know where a quicklisp package comes from? (git/svn/cvs/hg repository, tarball url?) 22:07:54 yes Bike but can you see from the code how to actually do something useful beside printing a so called segment as in the test file ? 22:08:20 pjb: is it in the metadata repo on github? i thought i twas 22:10:12 francogrex: rather worryingly imperative, there... 22:10:25 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-180-111.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:10:41 Ah right, quicklisp-projects 22:10:54 Thanks. 22:11:45 me imperative? too much coffee maybe and desperatly trying to understand and get smethuing useful out of it. sorry 22:12:04 francogrex: no, the test file, i meant 22:12:20 francogrex: hidden state in the "current segment" and such 22:14:43 what are we supposed to do with that segment? I see that print-segment prints opcodes ... 22:15:01 it's a pity there is no complete example 22:15:24 the package doesn't seem to export anything else really 22:17:32 assemble-forms and print-segment ... what is a segment anyway? 22:18:27 haven't you been doing assembly stuff for weeks 22:19:51 months even ... 22:24:07 -!- gmcastil [~user@75-145-122-2-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:24:29 gmcastil [~user@75-145-122-2-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:31 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:29:26 -!- gmcastil [~user@75-145-122-2-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29:48 gmcastil [~user@75-145-122-2-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:26 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:30:44 pjb: https://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-projects has the list 22:30:52 pillton [~user@140.253.50.147] has joined #lisp 22:31:27 -!- cory786 [~cory@adsl-75-22-101-128.dsl.bumttx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:31:44 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:34:36 -!- bitonic [~user@xdsl-188-155-179-93.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:38:45 yakov_ [~yakov@128-69-12-163.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 22:41:34 holycow [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has joined #lisp 22:41:39 hi guys 22:41:43 -!- ubikation [~ubikation@c-98-246-194-189.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:42:30 -!- didi` [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:42:33 anyone here familiar hunchentoot want to help me understand how to get forms to work proeprly on a tiny framework called hh-web? Willing to pay for your time. 22:43:03 -!- yakov_ [~yakov@128-69-12-163.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:43:55 I hadn't heard of hh-web before 22:44:38 https://github.com/hargettp/hh-web <-- super small and simple 22:45:04 component based, code everything in lisp, no html/js/css/etc, unless you want to define your own tags 22:45:40 https://github.com/hargettp/hh-web/wiki/_pages <- wiki has 4 pages which pretty well describe its whole functionality 22:46:03 -!- tiksa [~tiksa@212-200-212-78.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Pozdrav] 22:46:51 i think i understand most of it, in have a form and some pages working, i just don't understand how the form data gets passed to a .lisp file that would take the input and put it into sqlite it self 22:47:09 I was listening to an interesting talk about the React javascript frameworth recently, its another facebook opensource project 22:47:25 if i could get over that hump i could dig in deeper and try it out at a more interactive level 22:47:53 its component based but forgoes the two-way data binding of angularjs in order to support functional composition of components 22:48:10 personally, i don't ever want to see js/html/css 22:48:21 I can relate 22:48:54 if i could do (ui :var value :var vale ... etc) or do something like that algorythmically, that would just be dandny 22:48:57 dandy even 22:52:48 docs though brief make a lot of sense 22:53:08 he made it so that the framework really has no overhead 22:53:24 it kind just hides the html/css/js from you and you can do whatever you want. 22:53:40 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:53:50 i don't really understand hunchentoot so ... kinda don't get how forms pass data to scripts yet 22:54:31 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:39 -!- francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 22:54:52 what i like about is that you can just go in and efine your own html tags 22:54:57 mired daily as I am in blub language web applications, I like the idea of abstracting away the different syntaxes 22:55:13 if you wanted to create your own document format, you could do it easily 22:55:17 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:55:47 -!- fenton [~fenton@ppp-124-122-54-104.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 22:55:47 the component approach fits well with the shadow DOM stuff coming for HTML5 22:56:17 sort-of sub-pages that are lighter-weight and more integrated than iframes 22:56:33 yeah, that is what i liked about this as well. i also like weblocks but i need to know how to program in lisp a little better to be able to use that 22:57:33 francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has joined #lisp 23:02:41 -!- francogrex [~user@109.133.132.91] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:04:39 -!- Aramur [~arare@28.Red-81-32-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Aramur] 23:06:16 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-180-26-144.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:06:32 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:11 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Zzz] 23:12:33 -!- zacharias [~aw@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:13:10 ubikation [~ubikation@c-67-168-252-238.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:13:16 well I'll be looking into hh-web, but right now its not working - I need it to run on a different port, it doesn't want to do that despite me having changed *httpd-port* in the package 23:14:06 really? 23:14:14 let me check, never tried anything but 8000 23:14:21 it keeps trying to open on 8000 23:16:42 Aramur [~arare@28.Red-81-32-228.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:28 right, its not enough to just change the package var and then start the server 23:18:53 -!- gmcastil [~user@75-145-122-2-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:19:13 because start-httpd-server is a closure over a lexical that needs to be redefined - not ideal, to change the port I had to slime-eval-buffer 23:19:24 aha! 23:20:06 well I have a page up now 23:20:18 and its time to go to $DAYJOB 23:20:20 spacebat: if you are interested in helping me i will pay you 23:20:35 before you go pm me your rate 23:20:50 I'm just interested in the framework 23:21:03 oh okay :) good enough haha 23:21:37 if I do end up being of help I created a gittip account a few days ago and you could tip me whatever you feel like 23:22:10 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 23:22:19 holycow: so what exactly is your issue with the forms? do you just need to know how to get at the post-data? 23:22:22 my dayjob is enough obligation, lisp is for fun 23:22:22 cool, that will work. i can provide you my test package with the form and various bits and pieces. that might help you get on the same page as me 23:22:34 ThePhoeron: pretty much 23:22:42 -!- Nisstyre-laptop is now known as Nisstyre 23:23:24 the writer of the framework says that i need to create a handler and use that to pass the data from the form 23:23:45 i thought i did create a handler, but the hunchentoot docs are a little overy my head right now so i don't know what that means exactly 23:23:49 (hunchentoot:post-parameter "field-name") is pretty convenient too 23:24:33 assuming your form uses POST 23:24:45 i am yes 23:24:52 okay i can google that, that might help 23:24:57 also, there's the package formlets 23:25:28 it's pretty convenient because it includes validation, error messages, etc 23:25:53 aha! 23:26:12 https://github.com/Inaimathi/formlets 23:26:30 also in quicklisp 23:26:37 okay well that is more concrete information, i was not even sure what question to ask 23:29:18 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@123.208.155.173] has joined #lisp 23:29:26 clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has joined #lisp 23:29:59 -!- jangle_ [~jimmy1984@c-98-233-111-131.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: jangle_] 23:31:19 holycow: yeah, fair enough. formlets is handy because then you can just refer to the field value by name, drop it into your sql-handling code 23:31:25 no mess 23:31:32 oh wow 23:31:43 that feels like cheating. the right kind of cheating 23:31:58 damnit i gotta go. i will DEFINITELY look into that, that sounds really great. 23:32:02 good practice to wrap it in (cl-who:escape-string-all field-name) though 23:32:11 chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:33:16 got that into the notes as well. 23:33:20 thanks again ThePhoeron 23:33:22 -!- holycow [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has left #lisp 23:34:04 hmmm doesn't look like hh-web includes cl-who 23:34:18 -!- clmsy [~clmsy@212.57.9.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:37:31 jangle_ [~jimmy1984@c-98-233-111-131.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:38:16 -!- francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client] 23:40:45 francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has joined #lisp 23:45:15 -!- antonv_ [5d7d2a42@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:46:26 WarWeasle [~Kaltara@162.72.14.206] has joined #lisp 23:48:38 -!- guyal [~anonymous@108-235-117-64.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: guyal] 23:52:56 -!- francis_wolke [62cf9ba1@gateway/web/cgi-irc/kiwiirc.com/ip.98.207.155.161] has quit [Quit: http://www.kiwiirc.com/ - A hand crafted IRC client]