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00:58:39 oh yes thanks! wow! 00:58:54 changes to sb-vm::map-allocated-objects broke hu.dwim.debug 00:59:12 serves right for using internal functions 00:59:18 is there a way to see the path of the current file? 00:59:38 clhs *load-truename* 00:59:38 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_ld_pns.htm 00:59:43 clhs *compile-file-truename* 00:59:44 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/v_cmp_fi.htm 00:59:44 thanks 01:00:01 if that's what is meant by "current file" 01:01:12 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:11 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:02:13 nowhere_man [~pierre@5070B859.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #lisp 01:03:59 pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has joined #lisp 01:04:22 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:05:07 ldionmarcil [~maden@195-77.162.dsl.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 01:05:17 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@195-77.162.dsl.aei.ca] has quit [Changing host] 01:05:18 ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #lisp 01:05:34 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abog84.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 01:06:11 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:06:41 cscorp [~csorp@c-98-230-174-67.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:19 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:49 -!- ltbarcly_ [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:08:42 kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has joined #lisp 01:08:57 -!- petrounias [~petrounia@ppp-2-85-57-46.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Quit: petrounias] 01:09:19 petrounias [~petrounia@ppp-2-85-57-46.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 01:09:42 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:10:37 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:14:16 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-157-62.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:16:39 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:16:53 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:19:32 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 01:19:44 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 01:21:41 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:22:06 -!- harish [~harish@175.156.118.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:27:14 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:32:16 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:35:42 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:39:19 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-76-180-168-166.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:40:26 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:40:54 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:48:16 harish [~harish@119.234.163.228] has joined #lisp 01:54:07 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-76-180-168-166.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:59:58 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.232.25.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:03:42 -!- harish [~harish@119.234.163.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:13:43 -!- Tarential [~Tarential@li421-205.members.linode.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 02:14:06 Tarential [~Tarential@li421-205.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 02:32:24 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-vxwxxtkcsgivbjsm] has joined #lisp 02:33:09 Ryan_Burnside [~user@63-153-64-115.hlna.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:33:39 Is the best way to clear a list simply calling setf and assigning it nil? 02:33:40 Ryan_Burnside, memo from pjb: of course 'lisp' is still taught at MIT, but not for newbies or non-CS students: http://web.mit.edu/alexmv/6.S184/ 02:33:53 Oh hello minion. I'll take a look. 02:34:22 Ryan_Burnside: what do you mean by "clear"? 02:34:32 you mean the best way to disentangle a variable from a list? 02:38:11 Simply make it blank once more. With no items inside. 02:38:33 you can't do that 02:38:45 "blank"? these words don't make sense. 02:38:48 minion: don't they use it exclusively at the MIT AI lab? 02:38:49 what is ``it''? 02:38:51 at least the way you're describing 02:38:56 or more or less exclusively 02:39:26 but i presume that you're using wrong terminology or just confused 02:40:52 I want to make all cons cells dissapear and be garbage collected from the list. :) 02:41:11 then don't reference any of them 02:41:16 you are confused. but you should just setf the variable to nil. 02:41:28 walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:41:41 only if it's a long-live variable 02:42:23 -!- cory786 [~cory@adsl-75-22-101-128.dsl.bumttx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:42:27 I'm not used to garbage collection just yet. So I making sure I don't leave huge chunks of data sitting in memory. I assume once a structure has nothing pointing to it the memory is freed. 02:42:34 boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:42:43 not "once" 02:42:43 not immediately, but yes, that's the general idea. 02:43:01 you don't generally need to think about it. 02:43:40 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@171.217.23.142] has left #lisp 02:43:46 holycow [~holycow@69.172.160.27] has joined #lisp 02:43:52 only long running functions or global variables should require any attention 02:44:02 I can't imagine how hard that is to impliment when writing a lisp interpreter. 02:44:15 it's pretty trivial 02:45:52 Oladon [~Oladon@c-98-245-40-6.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:46:07 Anyway it is good to see them using traditional Lisp languages at MIT. I read the book "Hackers Heroes of the Computer Revolution" and gained appreciation for oldschool MIT hackers. Then read about lisp, then watched the videos of Sussman on youtube. 02:48:36 Ryan_Burnside: I recommend this if you're interested in writing interpreters http://cs.brown.edu/~sk/Publications/Books/ProgLangs/ 02:49:11 here is the actual book http://cs.brown.edu/courses/cs173/2012/book/ 02:50:42 Cool, might have to hold off on that until I get more projects done though. 02:51:32 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:52:14 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.227.252] has joined #lisp 02:52:14 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.227.252] has quit [Changing host] 02:52:14 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 02:53:25 -!- walter|r [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:54:04 resttime [~rest@adsl-99-135-190-144.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:16 -!- kvda [~kvda@unaffiliated/kvda] has quit [Quit: z____z] 03:00:06 -!- jangle_ [~jimmy1984@c-98-233-111-131.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:07:02 -!- cscorp [~csorp@c-98-230-174-67.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: cscorp] 03:12:49 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-180-28.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:13:40 -!- tolk [~user@host225.190-226-91.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:13:58 jangle_ [~jimmy1984@c-98-233-111-131.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:14:59 kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:23 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-72-66-105-188.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:16:37 coder`` [~user@p5491B9F7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 03:17:25 -!- moto9 [~ml@p3E9E3DB5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:19:24 FORMAT is a cool function, easily write hex codes for my graphics. :) 03:20:12 Ryan_Burnside: WHat do you mean "hex codes for your graphics"? 03:20:16 -!- coder` [~user@p5491A702.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:20:57 I use red, green, blue triplets in my code but when I export .svg it is nice to have triplets such as "#FF0000" 03:21:48 Okay... How does FORMAT help with that? You are using ~/ to call a tranformation function? 03:22:07 format has ~x 03:22:53 stassats`: Right, but that's no different from C's printf(). I thought there were some unique features of Lisp he was referring to. 03:23:15 evidently not, and that's ok. 03:23:44 I've not done much with printf, mostly just fiddled with more ugly C++ style printing. 03:24:16 You can use printf with C++ I believe but it is not encouraged. 03:24:29 Hence my lack of initial understanding. :) 03:24:31 it's not encouraged to use C++ 03:25:00 -!- Tarential [~Tarential@li421-205.members.linode.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 03:25:22 Tarential [~Tarential@li421-205.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 03:25:45 Given it or Java I'd take the lesser of two evils. 03:25:48 loke: but does printf have (format t "#~@{~2,'0x~}" 1 2 3)? 03:26:31 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-153-72.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:26:43 I'm not convinced that format ought to have that, myself. :) 03:26:57 it ought to have more 03:27:28 stassats`: you know as well as I the asnwer to that question. It's not an ideal example in this particular case though... 03:28:00 *loke* thinks format should be customisable. It should be possible to install something similar to readtables for the format strings 03:28:34 just ~/ is not enough? 03:28:42 stassats`: No. 03:28:53 -!- holycow [~holycow@69.172.160.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:28:55 stassats`: It's usually acceptable though 03:29:09 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 03:29:10 holycow [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has joined #lisp 03:30:05 moto9 [~ml@p3E9E07B3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 03:30:22 To a certain point, magic is fine, but beyond a certain level of complexity, there's no good reason to have a separate language for formatting strings, imho. 03:33:10 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:35:16 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:35:38 Otherwise it would be Perl? 03:36:35 i think it would be nice if you could do everything in format with the proper functions/macros. as far as i can see you can do most but not all things. 03:36:38 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:38:29 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has joined #lisp 03:39:00 -!- pnq [~nick@unaffiliated/pnq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:39:17 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-180-26-144.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:39:49 -!- fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317871.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:43:28 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:44:41 antgreen [~green@216.254.163.111] has joined #lisp 03:47:24 -!- quazimod1 [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:52:15 -!- Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:55:31 -!- blar1 [~corey@cpe-107-10-62-241.neo.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 03:56:51 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 04:01:25 persizzl [~twosizes@c-98-246-47-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:30 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:11:33 maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has joined #lisp 04:11:40 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:11:53 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:13:14 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has joined #lisp 04:15:56 -!- sykopomp` is now known as sykopomp 04:20:41 nilsi [~nilsi@116.228.29.66] has joined #lisp 04:20:42 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@116.228.29.66] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:21:10 nilsi [~nilsi@5.254.135.23] has joined #lisp 04:22:07 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:24:59 -!- boogie [~boogie@ip68-101-218-78.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:29:16 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 04:31:29 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-171-200.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 04:33:59 -!- persizzl [~twosizes@c-98-246-47-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: persizzl] 04:34:40 -!- holycow [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:35:56 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-101-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 04:36:24 holycow [~holycow@69.172.160.27] has joined #lisp 04:39:52 Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has joined #lisp 04:40:01 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-153-72.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 04:41:26 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:42:14 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 04:43:21 Bike_ [~Glossina@wl-nat100.it.wsu.edu] has joined #lisp 04:43:26 -!- Bike [~Glossina@wl-nat100.it.wsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:44:35 http://i.imgur.com/8jAlpaP.png Little recursion fractal from my Lisp routines. I did this with my shoddy svg writer and logo lib... 04:45:04 -!- youlysses [~user@24-217-211-79.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:47:17 youlysses [~user@24-217-211-79.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:51:11 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@5.254.135.23] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:52:47 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:53:37 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:54:26 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 04:56:49 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 04:59:26 -!- Ryan_Burnside [~user@63-153-64-115.hlna.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:09:43 tsbelanger [~user@72-53-137-158.cpe.distributel.net] has joined #lisp 05:10:36 -!- joe9 [~user@ip70-179-153-227.fv.ks.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:10:41 -!- tsbelanger [~user@72-53-137-158.cpe.distributel.net] has left #lisp 05:13:30 -!- sergey [~sergey@93.171.170.161] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 05:24:43 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:24:55 zmoney [~zmoney@94.200.220.210] has joined #lisp 05:25:19 -!- zmoney [~zmoney@94.200.220.210] has quit [Client Quit] 05:29:24 veer [~veer@pool-96-254-154-127.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:29:47 -!- veer is now known as Guest7774 05:30:30 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:34:21 lurch_ [~lurch_@94-224-16-101.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 05:35:37 nilsi [~nilsi@116.231.2.83] has joined #lisp 05:36:06 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@116.231.2.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:36:38 nilsi [~nilsi@5.254.135.46] has joined #lisp 05:38:29 ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:42:40 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:43:04 oleo [d4b81ecd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.184.30.205] has joined #lisp 05:43:39 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 05:54:44 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-212-106-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 06:00:52 -!- GuilOooo [~GuilOooo@178.20.70.196] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:01:10 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 06:01:41 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:01:50 - 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It helped me simplify the struct form and return a proper value. 07:52:24 peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has joined #lisp 07:53:24 -!- holycow [~holycow@69.172.160.27] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:53:29 nilsi_ [~nilsi@116.231.2.83] has joined #lisp 07:57:01 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@5.254.131.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:57:39 -!- nilsi_ [~nilsi@116.231.2.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:58:05 nilsi [~nilsi@5.254.135.19] has joined #lisp 07:59:05 -!- ghard [~ghard@2001:980:53f7:1:396b:cc14:f119:ac92] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:01:22 ffilozov [~user@46.Red-88-0-184.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:01:33 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:01:56 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-144-236.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 08:04:59 jewel [~jewel@41-133-109-236.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:05:46 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@5.254.135.19] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:09:14 doomlord [~doomlod@host86-180-26-144.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 08:09:20 nilsi [~nilsi@116.231.2.83] has joined #lisp 08:11:19 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 08:13:25 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:13:25 -!- yacks [~py@103.6.159.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:13:35 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@116.231.2.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:18:42 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 08:19:26 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-180-26-144.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:20:59 round-robin [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has joined #lisp 08:21:24 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:22:29 -!- Munksgaard [~philip@80-71-132-106.u.parknet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:24:53 weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 08:25:26 -!- vnz [~vnz@unaffiliated/vnz] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 08:25:29 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: lifetime expired because experience stopped] 08:25:39 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:26:32 vnz [~vnz@unaffiliated/vnz] has joined #lisp 08:29:47 ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has joined #lisp 08:32:40 -!- mpstyler [5e64ed81@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.100.237.129] has left #lisp 08:33:22 DalekBaldwin1 [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 08:33:28 -!- scoofy [~scoofy@catv-89-135-71-167.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:33:48 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 08:34:11 -!- DalekBaldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:36:44 -!- weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:36:44 -!- round-robin [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:37:10 arnsa [~arnsa@78-63-18-208.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 08:40:19 -!- lurch_ [~lurch_@94-224-16-101.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: lurch_] 08:41:45 lurch_ [~lurch_@94-224-16-101.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 08:41:50 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:42:21 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.212.34] has quit [Quit: Byebye.] 08:46:06 jdz [~jdz@85.254.212.34] has joined #lisp 08:46:52 GuilOooo [~GuilOooo@178.20.70.196] has joined #lisp 08:48:37 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:48:46 -!- jdz [~jdz@85.254.212.34] has quit [Client Quit] 08:48:59 weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 08:49:26 jdz [~jdz@85.254.212.34] has joined #lisp 08:49:54 Does anyone know of a library that provides functions to validate things like email addresses, date strings and so on? 08:50:30 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:50:48 ph88 [5597cc14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.151.204.20] has joined #lisp 08:55:14 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:55:44 Shinmera: there are several different libraries. Use http://cliki.net to search for them. 08:56:14 I couldn't find anything, but I'm probably searching wrong. 08:57:53 weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 08:58:07 harish [~harish@175.156.118.29] has joined #lisp 09:00:38 -!- weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:00:41 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:01:30 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:03:58 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 09:04:41 kennyd_ [~kennyd@78-1-157-62.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 09:05:50 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:10:04 -!- kennyd_ [~kennyd@78-1-157-62.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:14:51 -!- lurch_ [~lurch_@94-224-16-101.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: lurch_] 09:15:07 weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 09:16:40 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:19:02 lurch_ [~lurch_@94-224-16-101.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 09:19:25 -!- Guest7774 [~veer@pool-96-254-154-127.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 09:19:26 Guest7774 [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 09:19:29 -!- Guest7774 is now known as _veer 09:31:28 AeroNotix [~aero@nat/hp/x-dkszgsxtpytniswm] has joined #lisp 09:45:36 anaumov_ [~an@bane.agnitas.de] has joined #lisp 09:46:15 Google's lisp koans are really fun :) 09:46:29 Zhivago, there's a nice approach i've tried in haskell which is composing formatters e.g. format ("Hello " . str . ", you are " . int . " years old") "Dave" 23, where `str' and `int' and any other formatter are built from two combinators `now' and `later': `now' (e.g. now "hello") is used to put something in the output immediately (like the strings), `later' (e.g. later id) makes the format call accept more arguments of the correct type. i like 09:46:29 it because it's type-safe but also extensible 09:47:36 ircbrowse: I do find that to be much more annoying to read than a normal format pattern though 09:47:39 but to each his own 09:47:45 loke, indeed, that's the drawback 09:48:27 -!- gjord [~gjord@ool-18babf32.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 09:48:53 -!- anaumov [~an@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:48:55 loke, although as a +1, it means you have editor support for free. i don't think anyone (or do they?) has editor support for FORMAT's format string 09:49:00 persizzl [~twosizes@c-98-246-47-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:49:10 mpstyler [5e64ed81@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.100.237.129] has joined #lisp 09:49:10 ircbrowse: true that :-) 09:49:35 It could, at least theoretically, be aprtially implemented though. If anyone cared enough. 09:50:11 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:50:37 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 09:50:49 lamida [~androirc@39.209.82.194] has joined #lisp 09:55:21 -!- krfantasy [~user@li584-22.members.linode.com] has left #lisp 09:57:24 kennyd_ [~kennyd@78-1-157-62.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 09:57:26 -!- lamida [~androirc@39.209.82.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:57:38 lamida [~androirc@39.209.82.194] has joined #lisp 10:01:22 -!- lamida [~androirc@39.209.82.194] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:08:37 naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has joined #lisp 10:12:48 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2-dev] 10:17:05 -!- kennyd_ [~kennyd@78-1-157-62.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:19:23 fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317871.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 10:21:56 -!- maxter__ [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:23:24 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-166-190.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 10:26:16 How relevant is Guy Steele's "Common Lisp - The Language" 10:26:18 ? 10:27:23 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-26-144-236.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 10:28:57 AeroNotix: The second edition is slightly outdated, but if you already know lisp, you might find it an interesting read. 10:29:49 -!- lufu [~user@5.254.129.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:30:15 I wouldn't say I know lisp 10:30:20 BitPuffin [~quassel@c80-216-147-180.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:30:29 I've read PCL, going again through it 10:30:55 I rarely get to use Lisp, so I go through phases of using it for personal project etc 10:35:10 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@c80-216-147-180.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:35:45 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:36:11 In many ways CLTL2 was what CL ought to have been, before all of the compromises ... 10:36:34 Zhivago: we meet again 10:36:37 -!- hyperboreean [~none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:36:59 Life is like that. 10:37:22 Fate? 10:38:06 Repetitive. 10:39:17 hahaha 10:40:01 :) 10:45:20 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 10:45:20 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 10:45:20 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 10:45:54 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:46:06 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 10:48:28 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-166-190.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:53:02 BitPuffin [~quassel@c80-216-147-180.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:53:24 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-47-98.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 11:02:39 -!- AeroNotix [~aero@nat/hp/x-dkszgsxtpytniswm] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:04:21 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 11:05:40 hyperboreean [~none@unaffiliated/hyperboreean] has joined #lisp 11:08:05 patrickwonders_ [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 11:08:31 yacks [~py@103.6.159.100] has joined #lisp 11:09:02 -!- clog [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:09:03 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:09:03 -!- patrickwonders_ is now known as patrickwonders 11:09:10 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 11:11:02 -!- fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317871.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:12:51 -!- milosn_ [~milosn@user-5af507e0.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:13:25 danlentz: hi! read your comments a couple of weeks ago... I don't know about any customized reporting for stefil 11:14:05 danlentz: I think there's a *some-stream* used for printing test output, you can hijack that to mute the dots 11:14:29 peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has joined #lisp 11:15:33 round-robin [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has joined #lisp 11:17:22 -!- youlysses [~user@24-217-211-79.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:18:29 milosn [~milosn@user-5af507e0.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 11:18:32 lufu [~user@5.254.129.14] has joined #lisp 11:23:14 gleag [~gleag@71.175.broadband2.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 11:23:58 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 11:31:52 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 11:31:53 -!- pavelpenev [~quassel@melontech.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:42:28 ASau` [~user@p5797EA21.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:42:56 -!- lufu [~user@5.254.129.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:43:07 walter 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mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:17:00 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 13:22:09 codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has joined #lisp 13:34:40 -!- jewel [~jewel@41-133-109-236.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:39:51 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-145-126.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:04 G'morning all. 13:42:24 nyef: did you and pkhuong get any sbcl hacking done? 13:43:08 No, we mostly just talked about how the system works and what the opportunities for excellence are. 13:46:13 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:47:42 what was the occassion? 13:48:24 hi nyef 13:48:55 foom: pkhuongs in boston 13:49:07 foom: pkhuong was in the Boston area for a few days, so we arranged to meet IRL. 13:49:18 ah, cool. 13:51:12 jlongster [~user@pool-72-84-229-181.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has 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has quit [Quit: ampersand27017] 15:50:55 -!- antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-rzoyfhvsghrenhoh] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:51:13 -!- smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:51:49 dkordic [~danilo@178-222-84-9.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:52:01 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:52:39 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 15:53:10 turbopape [~turbopape@41.230.34.248] has joined #lisp 15:54:47 resttime [~rest@adsl-99-135-190-144.dsl.chcgil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:24 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:01:41 round-robin [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has joined #lisp 16:04:53 -!- joneshf-laptop [~joneshf@c-98-208-36-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:05:14 ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.141] has joined #lisp 16:05:58 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-235-135.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:08:28 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:08:39 antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-jnagtlvwrblmhtaf] has joined #lisp 16:09:06 -!- Munksgaard [~philip@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:09:20 Munksgaard [~philip@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 16:10:17 is there a way to map over the multiple return valu? 16:10:20 *values? 16:10:46 -!- codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:11:35 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:12:29 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:12:37 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@83-103-19-212.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:13:27 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:44 found it nvm 16:13:44 clhs values-list 16:13:45 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_vals_l.htm 16:13:54 thanks 16:14:07 rather 16:14:10 clhs m-v-l 16:14:10 Matches: multiple-value-list, multiple-values-limit. 16:14:17 clhs multiple-value-list 16:14:18 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_mult_1.htm 16:14:24 always mix them u[ 16:14:58 but it's better not to iterate, of course 16:16:45 is map iterative? 16:17:03 it is 16:17:18 but i find it hard to imagine why would you want to map over multiple values 16:18:17 Yeah not decided on it yet. I could make the method return a list of objects also which makes more sense. 16:18:45 http://blog.nullspace.io/apple-2-lisp-part-1.html 16:19:33 k0001_ [~k0001@200.117.218.29] has joined #lisp 16:19:36 AeroNotix [~xeno@abok235.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:20:55 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:21:06 mpstyler [5e64ed81@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.100.237.129] has joined #lisp 16:21:43 doomlord_ [~servitor@host86-180-26-144.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:22:14 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host130.190-226-198.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:23:23 -!- tolk [~user@host225.190-226-91.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:24:38 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 16:24:56 -!- turbopape [~turbopape@41.230.34.248] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 16:26:35 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 16:30:43 -!- k0001_ [~k0001@200.117.218.29] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:30:51 k0001 [~k0001@200.117.218.29] has joined #lisp 16:31:51 -!- ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:32:57 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:33:08 is there anything more satisfying in all of programming then seeing the dramatic simplification that results from the investment of effort it takes to build a macro 16:33:52 getting a paycheck 16:34:03 *fe[nl]ix* agrees 16:34:14 -!- lurch_ [~lurch_@94-224-16-101.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: lurch_] 16:34:27 smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has joined #lisp 16:34:43 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-022-050.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:52 human [~happy@106.215.140.254] has joined #lisp 16:35:09 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:35:14 -!- human is now known as Guest85659 16:35:57 ha yeah that would improve the afterglow i'd say 16:36:06 -!- _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:36:33 -!- shridhar [Shridhar@nat/redhat/x-ycmtndeprkzawwxn] has quit [Quit: shridhar] 16:36:58 Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 16:37:17 -!- Guest85659 [~happy@106.215.140.254] has quit [Client Quit] 16:38:22 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 16:40:43 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 16:40:50 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ejohnson] 16:41:42 everywhere else it seems the more time you work on a thing the tendency is that complexity accumulates 16:45:15 -!- lufu [~user@5.254.129.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:45:27 drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 16:45:41 on an unrelated topic is there any rationale to why cl:substitute-if does not take the predicate in the first position? 16:46:13 (substitute-if 0 #'null .) looks ass-backwards to me 16:47:28 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:47:43 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p4FE6450A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:50:04 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:50:45 because SUBSTITUTE is that way 16:51:15 but you seriously care about such things? 16:52:02 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-243-229-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:52:34 -!- ffilozov [~user@46.Red-88-0-184.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:52:49 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:53:09 not overly it just seems to read poorly 16:53:57 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-167-125.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:56:03 not symmetric with remove-if so I wondered if there was some other rationalle 16:56:21 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:57:21 sohail [~sohail@69-196-176-38.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 16:57:22 -!- sohail [~sohail@69-196-176-38.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 16:57:22 sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 16:57:28 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.235.4] has joined #lisp 16:57:28 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.235.4] has quit [Changing host] 16:57:28 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 16:57:28 remove-if doesn't have an argument with which to substitute 16:58:41 segv- [~mb@95-91-243-229-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 16:58:56 <_death> it's because the arguments should follow common english usage 16:59:14 <_death> *argument order 16:59:53 -!- loke_ [~elias@bb115-66-249-26.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:00:19 loke_ [~elias@bb115-66-249-26.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 17:02:20 Odyessus [~odyessus@213.47.71.36] has joined #lisp 17:02:40 <_death> danlentz: "substitute new for old".. you could have a "replace" version (forget for a moment cl:replace) which would go "replace old with new".. so replace-if could have the first argument be a predicate 17:03:06 -!- Kaisyu [~Kaisyu@183.109.111.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:03:43 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 17:05:17 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:07:11 -!- _death is now known as adeht 17:08:33 i've been trying to eliminate similar kinds of inconsistencies of api i sometimes find in my own code that bug the shit out of me 17:10:16 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 17:11:28 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 17:11:57 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@213.47.71.36] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 17:13:30 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 17:13:52 -!- k0001 [~k0001@200.117.218.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:14:23 przl [~przlrkt@p4FE6450A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:14:43 qaseem [~qaseem@139.190.152.86] has joined #lisp 17:14:55 koi hain 17:14:57 koi hain 17:14:58 koi hain 17:14:58 koi hain 17:14:58 koi hain 17:14:58 koi hain 17:14:59 koi hain 17:14:59 koi hain 17:15:17 -!- antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-jnagtlvwrblmhtaf] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:15:35 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o p_l 17:16:24 qaseem: yes there are people here. Please ask your lisp-related question in English. 17:17:53 -!- luis [~luis@kerno.org] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 17:18:21 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has joined #lisp 17:18:31 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:18:43 -!- drmeiste_ is now known as drmeister 17:19:50 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:22:26 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:23:06 matko [~matko@ip82-139-123-169.lijbrandt.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:34 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:24:08 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2-dev] 17:25:19 -!- Blaster [~Baster@S0106602ad080cdaa.ok.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 17:26:06 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:19 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:29:10 jangle_ [~jimmy1984@dsl-164.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:47 -!- qaseem [~qaseem@139.190.152.86] has left #lisp 17:31:48 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:31:56 antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-hzjbgogytliksrjw] has joined #lisp 17:32:00 -!- loke_ [~elias@bb115-66-249-26.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:32:09 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@24.130.9.50] has joined #lisp 17:32:46 loke_ [~elias@bb115-66-249-26.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 17:34:32 maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:31 nexus-- [~nexus@li545-142.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 17:37:07 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:37:31 -!- loke_ [~elias@bb115-66-249-26.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:38:06 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 17:38:17 loke_ [~elias@bb115-66-249-26.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 17:39:20 slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.156] has joined #lisp 17:46:03 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:46:05 stassats`: nope. Getting a paycheck is not satisfying, if it's for having written badly bad programs in bad programming languages running on bad OSes, for bad users. 17:46:16 or only some of those conditions. 17:46:59 At least until they have the same memory erasing device as in "Paycheck". 17:51:15 pnpuff [~Op125@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 17:52:13 -!- pnpuff [~Op125@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 17:55:10 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p4FE6450A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:59:40 speaking of paychecks, anyone hiring inexperienced devs? 17:59:53 i doubt it but i wonder what a job as a lisp programmer would be like 18:00:22 the same as in for non-lisp programmer, just writing in a different language 18:01:20 i guess i should reword that as "i wonder what a job as a programmer would be like" 18:02:38 i want to level up with some job XP 18:03:54 it's been so long since I started, any advice I gave would probably be hopelessly outdated 18:04:32 Were I hiring, though, I would give strong preference to those people who had worked on lots of open-source projects. 18:04:54 Even as a contributor. Possibly especially as a contributor instead of main author 18:05:22 There's no resume like a github resume 18:06:34 i wish one could go to the government "here's my github page, give me money to work on open source project, for the betterment of mankind" 18:06:55 s/project/projects/ 18:07:03 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-212-106-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 18:07:31 -!- mpstyler [5e64ed81@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.100.237.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:07:45 dlowe: i am trying to follow that approach for learning and experience but i think it's still challenging on what project you choose and how you get involved. at the moment, i am going with building things that uses open source libraries and hoping that along the way, i might come across ways to contribute to those projects 18:08:31 choosing the most popular ones is usually the best 18:09:01 -!- aftershave [~textual@h-123-168-44.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 18:10:30 i actually never chose anything, it's just "this bug is bugging me, i better try to fix it" or "i want this feature badly", and eventually by accumulating a lot of such things you become acquainted with the code base, start hacking more and more and receive commit access 18:11:26 resttime: few startup or small company can hire inexperimented developers. 18:12:22 resttime: either you find a job in a big company, or you have to start building experience thru a contractor. 18:13:42 But in the later case, you may still have difficulting landing missions, even with a inflated resume, if you get to work for a small company final customers: they will soon see if you're not competent, and reject you asking for another more experimented consultant. 18:14:14 resttime: now if you add to the equation lisp, the result is that there's no such jobs. 18:15:06 interesting, thanks for the advice everyone 18:15:10 resttime: you have basically two choices: freelance, and find a customer who don't mind what technologies you use to build the solution to their problem. Or start up your own company, and being the CEO, you will be able to impose Lisp (just like other startup CEO impose Ruby or Python). 18:15:53 stassats`: you wish for the minimum revenue. (or as I call it, Citizen Dividends). I'm for it too. 18:17:07 how does one start a company? i imagine you need lots of members 18:17:21 have something to sell 18:17:48 resttime: Edi Weitz has a presentation about it but basically says the same thiing that pjb said: http://weitz.de/files/Genoa.pdf 18:17:51 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 18:18:31 if you want to program computers, you probably don't want to start a company 18:18:40 find someone else who actually wants to start a company 18:19:34 resttime: it's actually the same problem as being freelance: you need paying customers. 18:20:07 the difference is whether the work required to satify the paying customer(s) can be done by one person (free lance) or requires more people (start up company). 18:20:39 przl [~przlrkt@p4FE6450A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:20:41 resttime: The company I (used) to work started as two friends. One designer that did html and one python guy. 18:20:59 and they weren't friends by the end? 18:21:08 they are still friends 18:21:29 no up 7 employees. 18:21:35 *now 18:21:57 -!- BitPuffin_ [~quassel@c80-216-147-180.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:22:05 if I've used quicklisp slime helper to install slime, can I used the emacs package manager to update slime? or do I need to do something different? 18:22:26 jangle_: use quicklisp to update it 18:22:47 stasats`: ok thans 18:22:56 -!- snowylike [~sn@91-67-169-148-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Nettalk6 - www.ntalk.de] 18:24:05 -!- ltbarcly [~textual@216.113.168.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:24:15 alright, making connections 18:24:43 something to do when i start college 18:25:30 presently I've got a meager github: https://github.com/resttime 18:25:36 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 18:25:37 resttime: Making connections is something that you can start at any time, really. 18:25:52 1 FFI, 2 API implementatins in niche languages, and 1 android app 18:26:14 (Like, about half an hour ago. That looks like an okay start.) 18:26:39 -!- Nisstyre-laptop is now known as Nisstyre 18:26:56 *stassats`* makes neuron connections 18:27:01 resttime: There's MoCL, a CL implementation targetting iOS and Android. 18:28:04 and yes, nowadays, one can find customers indirectly, thru Android or iOS appstores. 18:29:50 i've heard of MoCL, though it costs major $ for a student like me 18:30:05 if it were free i would be all over it 18:30:30 As always, if you can find 200 customers for a $1 app on an appstore, you can buy ti. 18:30:31 it 18:31:18 gadjo [~gggg@109.102.72.188] has joined #lisp 18:32:54 btw I just found out there is a slime-extras on quicklisp, any idea what it does? 18:33:12 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 18:33:23 Now would be a good time to have a look at the sources. 18:34:09 PuercoPop: where? i don't see it 18:34:15 whew, this is a lot of info to take in 18:34:21 the prospect of profit seems so foreign 18:34:51 are you a commmie? 18:35:18 don't think so lol 18:35:30 stassats`: https://gist.github.com/PuercoPop/5ca8fad82cbc2dad64bf the arnesi ones 18:35:49 that's just for arnesi 18:36:24 -!- petrounias [~petrounia@ppp-2-85-57-46.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:37:40 resttime: well, otherwise indeed one can live with very little money. If all you want is to program, all you need is some shelter against sun and rain, some electricity, some IP connection, a computer and a few tomatoes a day. 18:38:00 You can always move to Perú ;) 18:38:21 Or some scandinavia forest. 18:38:52 the heating bill will be enormous in the winter 18:39:30 petrounias [~petrounia@ppp-2-85-57-46.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 18:39:58 Motivates you to finish the project early. 18:40:47 Which is the right thing when you're in a Finish forest. 18:41:26 finland is not in scandinavia, though 18:42:00 it's considered part of the culture. 18:42:12 What about the north end of Finland? 18:42:41 What the natives? 18:43:01 photex [~photex@192.241.224.216] has joined #lisp 18:43:22 -!- gadjo [~gggg@109.102.72.188] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:43:40 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-29-158.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:43:48 great, i'm feeling pumped to do some programming and reply to job oppurtunities with a funny letter 18:44:37 eh... I wouldn't try to be funny. 18:45:06 -!- jangle_ [~jimmy1984@dsl-164.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Quit: jangle_] 18:45:18 well i found this company http://careers.stackoverflow.com/jobs/38077/soulless-corp-seeks-software-engineer-that-s-catincan 18:45:27 -!- persizzl [~twosizes@c-98-246-47-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: persizzl] 18:45:52 resttime: you can try Vooza too. 18:46:46 BitPuffin [~quassel@c80-216-147-180.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:46:48 http://vooza.com/about/ http://vooza.com/videos/ 18:47:25 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-197-66.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 18:47:28 cool, never heard of them 18:50:24 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-24-173-184-38.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:53:26 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p4FE6450A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:55:39 shridhar [~Shridhar@116.75.33.146] has joined #lisp 18:57:05 I was just checking thoughtworks has an a program to get people with little programming experience functionally operational 18:57:47 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 19:00:14 otw but on the same vein as soulless corp is Dijkstra's reply to a 'business opportunity' 19:04:04 -!- loke_ [~elias@bb115-66-249-26.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:04:12 PuercoPop: checked out thoughtworks and what's this about Dijkstra's reply? 19:07:44 jewel [~jewel@105-237-24-51.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:09:36 A funny reply to a business venture. But Thoughtworks seems very good. I've been trying to get a job, should probably apply when the summer ends. 19:13:04 -!- shridhar [~Shridhar@116.75.33.146] has quit [Quit: shridhar] 19:13:40 -!- ASau [~user@p5797EA21.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:20:13 przl [~przlrkt@p4FE6450A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:20:52 loke_ [~elias@2001:470:36:b4a:589f:e2d2:cf5a:264f] has joined #lisp 19:21:58 -!- round-robin [~bubo@91.224.149.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:23:04 -!- Munksgaard [~philip@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:26:44 ASau [~user@p5797EA21.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:31:59 -!- callen [~callen@unaffiliated/callen] has left #lisp 19:33:45 yakov_ [~yakov@95-24-18-220.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 19:37:23 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 19:39:26 persizzl [~twosizes@c-98-246-47-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:12 -!- sohail [~sohail@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:43:07 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-144-236.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:30 -!- ASau [~user@p5797EA21.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:46:31 -!- edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: experience lost because computer sucks] 19:46:31 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-121-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:46:45 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:46:57 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@c80-216-147-180.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:47:43 -!- _d3f [~gnu@46.183.216.234] has quit [Quit: ! !] 19:48:19 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:48:19 sdemarre [~serge@70.122-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 19:50:22 ASau [~user@p5797EA21.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:51:10 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 19:52:18 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-121-164.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:52:58 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:54:20 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p4FE6450A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:54:55 luis` [~luis@kerno.org] has joined #lisp 19:56:35 Munksgaard [~philip@80-71-132-106.u.parknet.dk] has joined #lisp 19:57:41 -!- antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-hzjbgogytliksrjw] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:57:47 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-24-173-184-38.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 20:00:48 -!- ASau [~user@p5797EA21.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:53 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:02:30 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-237-24-51.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:04:38 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:05:30 -!- Lord_DeathMatch [Lord_Death@dav1d.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:07:26 Lord_DeathMatch [Lord_Death@dav1d.de] has joined #lisp 20:07:34 ASau` [~user@p5797EA21.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:10:27 arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 20:11:31 Shinmera [~linus@80.77.87.239] has joined #lisp 20:11:47 Which def-style form do I want to define a global function which is the return of another function? 20:13:57 In CL the functions like READ let you specify an eof-value and eof-error-p to indicate the end-of-file. Then there is the function LISTEN which returns true if there is a character available in the stream and false if at the end-of-file. 20:14:08 Are there any other functions involved in detecting end-of-file of streams? 20:15:24 maybe look at the end-of-file condition 20:16:57 file-position and file-length may do that in some cases 20:17:52 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 20:17:52 -!- `fogus is now known as fogus|out 20:18:30 tolk [~user@host225.190-226-91.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 20:18:46 AeroNotix: I believe defun is always global no matter where it's called 20:19:48 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:19:53 resttime: why are score-twos et al erroring by saying they're not defined? 20:19:54 https://gist.github.com/AeroNotix/6214745 20:20:11 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@248.152-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 20:20:11 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@248.152-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Changing host] 20:20:11 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 20:20:13 przl [~przlrkt@p4FE6450A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:20:32 defun doens't work like that. use (setf fdefinition) if you must 20:21:33 Hmm, sure I tried setf 20:24:15 Bike: yeah I don't follow what you mean, here. 20:24:16 sorry 20:24:31 well this is sntactically wrong (defun score-twos (basic-score 2)) 20:24:36 (setf (fdefinition 'score-twos) (basic-score 2)) 20:26:08 can I name the slot the same of an accessor? 20:26:16 is the a common naming idiom ? 20:26:28 ngz [~user@91.224.148.150] has joined #lisp 20:26:29 you can do that, yes 20:26:58 *PuercoPop* nods 20:27:18 Bike: will try that 20:28:20 antonv_ [5d7d2a74@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.125.42.116] has joined #lisp 20:29:03 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 20:32:06 joe9 [~user@ip70-179-153-227.fv.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:51 -!- spion 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