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Anywhere.] 00:30:05 mlamari [~quassel@cpe-70-112-159-86.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:32:56 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 00:41:50 -!- cory786 [~cory@75-22-101-128.lightspeed.dblnoh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:44:43 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:45:05 scoofy [scoofy@catv-89-135-71-167.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 00:46:48 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:51:54 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-18bc97c4.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 00:52:05 -!- joe9 [~user@ip70-179-153-227.fv.ks.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:59:52 NihilistDandy [~ND@c-24-128-161-213.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:04:29 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:16 prxq_ [~mommer@95.117.198.88] has joined #lisp 01:08:34 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c1ca7.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:16:36 ampersand27017 [~ampersand@76.91.115.14] has joined #lisp 01:19:21 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:20:14 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:20:52 -!- quazimod1 [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:21:39 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 01:22:49 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:30:07 normanrichards [~normanric@70.114.215.220] has joined #lisp 01:30:58 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 01:37:02 -!- ampersand27017 [~ampersand@76.91.115.14] has quit [Quit: ampersand27017] 01:41:30 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abol45.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 01:45:25 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-76-180-168-166.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:50:11 karswell` [~user@31.1.125.91.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 01:51:45 -!- karswell [~user@46.208.103.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:52:30 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-180-26-144.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:53:53 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 01:59:01 nilsi [~nilsi@124.79.138.223] has joined #lisp 02:01:51 zacharias_ [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 02:01:56 Ryan_Burnside [~user@63-153-66-53.hlna.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:53 -!- tolk [~user@host182.190-30-206.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:04:14 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:06:22 przl_ [~przlrkt@p4FE64FFC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 02:07:16 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:07:44 I don't suppose sbcl 1.1.0 can load a 1.1.10 image? 02:08:31 quazimodo [~quazimodo@60-241-66-29.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:09:52 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B298CEB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:11:40 milosn_ [~milosn@user-5af5015d.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 02:12:41 With Common Lisp, is it possible to add a numerical offset to a char as one might do in C? 02:12:51 JuanDaugherty: fasls are not compatible, no 02:12:57 Ryan_Burnside: yes 02:13:04 loke,thx 02:13:26 Good, I'm making a light encryption and need to do just that when reading from and writing to files. 02:13:53 Ryan_Burnside: note that characters (just like in C) ar enot guaraneted to use a specific charset, although most CL's these days use Unicode, so making that assumption is usually ok 02:14:03 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@60-241-66-29.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:14:14 Ryan_Burnside: To do it, you want to look up the functions CHAR-CODE and CODE-CHAR 02:14:16 -!- milosn [~milosn@user-5af50dc7.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:14:37 These convert characters to and frm numbers 02:14:56 Much appreciated loke. 02:18:31 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:18:34 -!- Oladon [~Oladon@c-76-120-105-105.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:18:47 OK, bit more tricky question, is there a safe way to find what the max numerical range is for the current system? So I can safely add my offset without it crashing? 02:19:26 -!- youlysses [~user@24-217-211-79.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:20:05 Ryan_Burnside: not really. It seems to me to be a pretty weird requirement though. Remember that not all characters in a range 0 to n are valid 02:20:16 so just knowing what n is, is not enough 02:20:51 Ryan_Burnside: That said, no one should make his own encryption. It's bound to fail. You are supposed to use existing implemenations 02:21:25 Ryan_Burnside: You want to be looking at the libraries IRONCLAD and CL+SSL 02:21:29 It was just to test an idea. Essentially my idea was to call a random number for each char, add that value on. Then do the reverse by using the same seed and subtracting it off... 02:22:23 Ryan_Burnside: Just ise IRONCLAD. That's essentially what encryption algorithms do, but taking into account the millions of things that may go wrong 02:22:54 In either case, IRONCLAD or not, what you do is that you convert the string to a binary sequence of bytes first, before encrypting 02:23:52 You want to be using one of several libraries that can help with that: ICONV, FLEXI-STREAMS, TRIVIAL-UTF-8, etc.. 02:24:32 loke: even proven encryption libraries can fail if you have poorly implemented hardware running them 02:24:35 Ok, it was just for a programming exercise but it is good to know there are industrial solutions should I need them. 02:24:43 loke: since many encryption libraries assume things about the hw 02:24:52 or even the OS 02:24:55 Ryan_Burnside: sbcl uses mersenne for random number generation, and you only need a little over six hundred observed iterations to figure the seed, to give you an idea of what can go wrong here. 02:25:10 Nisstyre-laptop: of course. or if the libraries have bugs... Point is, however, that using them is a hell of a lot safer than trying to do it one self. 02:25:45 loke: yeah of course 02:26:11 I doubt the average programmer understands the intricacies of sidechannel attacks 02:26:32 just reading about them makes my head hurt 02:27:12 -!- Nisstyre-laptop is now known as Nisstyre 02:27:56 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@124.79.138.223] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:29:16 I'm just trying to find something interesting to do with CL as a weekend project. Something that doesn't require a lot of external libs. I'm still learning. Maybe a vt100 output library... 02:29:50 Ryan_Burnside: off the top of my head, you could implement a replay gain program for mp3 files 02:30:01 that was something I wanted to do but never got around to 02:30:23 just to learn how mp3s work more in-depth 02:31:13 Hmmm a little forum system might be cool, Lisp has multi threading and can connect to databases I hear... 02:31:22 Text based ofcourse. 02:31:28 Ryan_Burnside: well, that will require some dependencies 02:31:42 -!- cscorp [~csorp@c-98-230-174-67.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: cscorp] 02:31:47 you did say you wanted few libraries involved 02:31:49 Ah right, for the database stuff. 02:31:51 You're right. 02:32:07 not that using libraries is a bad thing 02:33:16 My concern is having the library downloaded on other people's computer. Don't they have to download the source? 02:33:23 Just thinking about the average dummy user. 02:33:41 Ryan_Burnside: no, they don't have to have the source available 02:34:46 Ryan_Burnside: and if you're making forum software in lisp then anyone using it will probably not care either way 02:35:10 I see, I'm still peddeling around on a tricycle using "A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation" 02:36:45 Ryan_Burnside: btw, if you plan on storing passwords, it looks like ironclad supports scrypt, which is the best choice for a KDF (Key-derivation function) 02:40:43 nilsi [~nilsi@124.79.138.223] has joined #lisp 02:42:19 arquebus [~frath@c-107-3-164-239.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:47:22 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@124.79.138.223] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:49:36 Oladon [~Oladon@c-98-245-40-6.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:50:06 sabra [~sabra@67.174.222.215] has joined #lisp 02:54:19 ldionmarcil [~maden@dsl-66-36-136-170.mtl.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 02:54:30 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@dsl-66-36-136-170.mtl.aei.ca] has quit [Changing host] 02:54:30 ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #lisp 02:56:03 I know I asked this before but what is the most mature, stable, cross platform GUI library for Common Lisp? I'd like to get some visual forms going if possible... 02:56:17 I didn't take note after asking and forgot. 02:57:50 -!- arquebus [~frath@c-107-3-164-239.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:58:09 I think there are QT bindings available 02:59:33 I see, I'm not totally sure where Common Lisp stands in areas of strength and weakness as a language. 03:01:22 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 03:06:14 weakness? What's a weakness? 03:06:15 :P 03:07:07 An important strength/weakness is it's extendibility. You can write macros that can extend the language. Which means understanding and using code written by other people can have high cognitive load with having to keep in mind the extensions that libraries x, y, and z came with. 03:12:03 nilsi [~nilsi@124.79.138.223] has joined #lisp 03:14:08 -!- moto9 [~ml@p3E9E1F32.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:14:27 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 03:16:51 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-21-121-73.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:19:44 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:20:42 I see. :D 03:22:32 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 03:23:38 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:23:53 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-59-121.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:26:02 Bike [~Glossina@174-25-59-121.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:28:20 zoek1 [~zoek1@187.135.13.94] has joined #lisp 03:28:36 moto9 [~ml@p3E9E0F86.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 03:31:18 Denommus [~Denommus@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 03:31:25 Hi 03:33:05 m104 [~m104@c-67-169-151-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:36:11 I think I'll just make a basic SVG library, then I can impliment a logo-like turtle drawing thing. Don't know if anyone recalls LOGO. 03:37:03 My first exposure to programming was on an Apple ][e using Logowriter and moving the turtle around. Might be fun to translate some of that to Common Lisp with a custom SVG output lib. 03:37:53 holycow [~holycow@216.251.135.194] has joined #lisp 03:38:07 hi 03:38:41 did logo let you draw arcs? i forget. 03:40:55 Well I'm not sure, but I do know you could probably make the little turtle move at a very slight angle many times. I believe there was no standard LOGO many implimentations. 03:41:13 Just a lot of "rt 90" "forward 100" etc. :) 03:41:56 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.30.226] has joined #lisp 03:41:56 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.164.30.226] has quit [Changing host] 03:41:56 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 03:42:55 ltbarcly [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:45:12 If I'm not mistaken I believe there was a version that used nested s-expressions. Only they were [] instead of (). 03:45:33 yeah, logo was based on lisp. 03:46:53 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-223-199-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 03:50:14 Perhaps kids need a chance to play with LOGO once more. It might be within my current skillset to make a LOGO varient with .svg output. 03:53:16 LiamH [~none@pool-74-96-2-44.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:59:38 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:59:45 -!- m104 [~m104@c-67-169-151-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 04:02:20 ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:02 -!- bananagram [~bot@76.30.158.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:05:48 -!- djinni` [~djinni@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 04:05:51 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@124.79.138.223] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:06:15 -!- ivan [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:07:01 -!- ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:10:58 -!- LiamH [~none@pool-74-96-2-44.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:11:11 I have some data like this: ("BEGIN:A" "1" "2" "3" "4" "END:A" "BEGIN:B" "3" "8" "2" "END:B") and I'd like to get it into the form (("1" "2" "3" "4") ("3" "8" "2")) -- I've been trying to do it with loop but can't seem to get it. Any ideas? 04:12:56 (loop for (x . xs) on (cdr list) until 04:13:04 nevermind. it should be simple though. 04:13:14 That's what I keep telling myself 04:13:21 But it hasn't helped so far :P 04:13:31 quazimodo [~quazimodo@60-241-66-29.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 04:15:11 (loop with lists = '(()) for x in list when (is-end x) do (setf (car lists) (nreverse (car lists))) when (is-begin x) do (push nil lists) else (push x (car lists)) finally (return (nreverse lists))) or so 04:15:13 -!- hiroakip [~hiroaki@ip-78-94-251-132.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:15:30 howdy Bike 04:17:58 maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has joined #lisp 04:18:04 The Parens are strong with this one (Bike) :D 04:18:23 quazimod1 [~quazimodo@60-241-66-29.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 04:19:49 hello. 04:20:34 ampersand27017 [~ampersand@76.91.115.14] has joined #lisp 04:21:15 Bike: Ahh, thanks... hrm. I'm getting "syntax error after else", but I don't see an issue. I'm probably missing something silly, but would you mind taking a look? 04:21:50 -!- przl_ [~przlrkt@p4FE64FFC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:22:07 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 04:23:04 oh, it should be else do. 04:23:04 Nevermind, I got it. 04:23:09 Yep! :) 04:23:40 Sweet! Only issue now is that it's including the end string. Hrm. 04:25:03 nilsi [~nilsi@124.79.138.223] has joined #lisp 04:25:44 make it else when rather than when for the second one 04:26:34 and make it lists = '(). hopefully you've learned a lesson about coding on irc 04:26:44 -!- ampersand27017 [~ampersand@76.91.115.14] has quit [Quit: ampersand27017] 04:26:47 Heh, I'm not copying anything. Yeah, I had already made it '() 04:26:58 Or rather, I'm copying and then giving it a working over before asking 04:27:24 The else doesn't work, though, because it needs that second condition there, and else doesn't seem to allow a form 04:27:33 (replacing the second when with else, rather) 04:27:46 oooh 04:27:49 I got it! 04:27:51 not replacing, adding 04:27:58 Well 04:28:09 but if you did something else and it worked, i ain't complainin 04:28:13 I tried combining them, but that wasn't working, but now I've got it working with else if 04:28:30 Sweet, thank you Bike! 04:31:46 m104 [~m104@c-67-169-151-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:31:51 ampersand27017 [~ampersand@76.91.115.14] has joined #lisp 04:32:01 -!- m104 [~m104@c-67-169-151-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 04:32:35 m104 [~m104@c-67-169-151-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:32:50 -!- m104 [~m104@c-67-169-151-146.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 04:35:31 m104 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08:28:36 -!- CADD [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 08:28:53 -!- ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:29:12 nostoi [~nostoi@12.Red-79-157-251.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:30:05 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@110.185.16.237] has left #lisp 08:31:28 zorkmoid [c2ed8e0a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.194.237.142.10] has joined #lisp 08:31:42 hi guys 08:31:48 ;Good morning. 08:31:57 :D 08:34:38 ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:35:49 splittist [d4cb4e8a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.203.78.138] has joined #lisp 08:35:54 morning 08:36:16 -!- ltbarcly [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:39:10 -!- ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:46:21 hello 08:49:27 harish [~harish@119.234.129.139] has joined #lisp 08:51:32 Harag 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host closed the connection] 09:18:39 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:18:40 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:19:41 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:19:54 quazimod1 [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:23:44 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 09:23:59 Ulysses22222 [~daniel@109.226.23.50] has joined #lisp 09:36:27 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 09:43:26 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@12.Red-79-157-251.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 09:52:24 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-26-137-145.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 09:53:10 hmmm 09:53:17 question about the if conditional 09:53:35 answer about the if conditional 09:53:39 hehe 09:53:54 pastebinning .. sec 09:55:20 http://paste.lisp.org/display/138340 09:55:53 your parenthesis are screwed up 09:55:59 don't ever write them on new lines 09:56:15 oh, i thought something was weird. 09:56:47 time to fire up paredit 09:56:53 and what is the question? 09:56:57 Wow. that's... unreadable 09:57:09 and there are also too many of them. (if form1 form2 form3) there's no implied progn anywhere. 09:58:01 well, up and down are identical loops, one positive, one negatie. the problem seem semms that the down loop runs normally but the up loops gets one execution only. 09:58:19 the entire thing is in a big main loop that runs over this perpetually 09:59:33 then don't put the call to UP inside an IF guarded by the (= blah 150) condition 09:59:39 i fail to understand the problem 10:00:25 holycow: you have not provided enough context for anyone to do anything but guess at your problem 10:00:44 CADD [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has joined #lisp 10:00:58 yeah you are right 10:01:24 i am having trouble actually putting it in words 10:01:30 both functions are idential loops 10:01:35 -!- CADD [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has quit [Client Quit] 10:01:43 down runs perpetually, which is correct, that is what is supposed to do 10:01:53 if you can't put it in words, how can you write a program to do it? 10:01:55 up, seems to be only run once and then dissapears. 10:02:23 have you considered pasting the entire function? 10:02:25 i wanted to confirm that the if conditional did not have some behaviour that would prevent one from looping indefinately 10:02:53 you seem to be quite confused 10:03:02 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-121-175.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:03:37 Maybe taking a step back and doing something else to return to the problem later would help you clear your mind? 10:03:49 probably, i will do that. 10:04:00 -!- benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-84-221.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:09:53 CADD [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has joined #lisp 10:10:16 -!- CADD is now known as Guest66946 10:10:40 -!- Guest66946 [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has quit [Client Quit] 10:22:19 Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-205-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:23:35 davazp [~user@92.251.198.148.threembb.ie] has joined #lisp 10:35:52 jerryzhou [~gururui@119.55.126.123] has joined 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arbscht_ [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:03:49 thanks for the suggestions guys, made some progress by working on something else first 12:03:59 nite 12:04:00 -!- holycow [~holycow@216.251.135.194] has left #lisp 12:10:16 rurufufuss [~rurufufus@115-64-27-246.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 12:10:45 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@m37-198-44-214.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:12:53 BitPuffin [~quassel@m37-198-44-214.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 12:13:04 -!- fogus|away [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:13:42 jewel [~jewel@41-133-109-236.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:14:26 fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317871.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 12:15:34 arbscht_ [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 12:16:39 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 12:19:07 -!- fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317871.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 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timeout: 256 seconds] 12:51:19 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:53:53 -!- oleo [d4b81ecd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.184.30.205] has quit [] 13:00:02 -!- rondon27Cuba [~the_one@aba3.ignorelist.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:01:26 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.50] has joined #lisp 13:03:42 ehu [~ehu@089144206110.atnat0015.highway.bob.at] has joined #lisp 13:03:59 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:32 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@105-236-205-79.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:11:01 -!- benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-84-221.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:11:02 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:11:08 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@187.206.85.179] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:14:04 hello 13:16:18 -!- tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:16:32 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:17:09 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 13:20:00 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:21:23 benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-84-221.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 13:22:00 -!- danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.50] has quit [Quit: danielszmulewicz] 13:23:08 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:25:14 cscorp [~csorp@50-192-42-94-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:29:35 -!- ehu [~ehu@089144206110.atnat0015.highway.bob.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:30:39 Wolfor [d9c5e70c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.197.231.12] has joined #lisp 13:35:24 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-155-33.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:36:44 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-155-33.netcologne.de] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:37:35 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-155-33.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:39:37 -!- davazp [~user@92.251.198.148.threembb.ie] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:41:14 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 13:42:00 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 13:42:18 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 13:42:21 hi 13:43:57 hi Denommus. What brings you to #lisp today? 13:44:30 the eventual good discussions? 13:48:14 erc auto-reconnect brings me to #lisp 13:50:41 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:50:54 -!- knobo [~knobo@81.175.44.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:51:42 stassats: I think I should do that 13:53:03 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 13:54:46 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-001-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:49 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.107.161] has joined #lisp 14:04:52 -!- elkng [~elkng@unaffiliated/elkng] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:04:59 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2-dev] 14:06:29 elkng [~elkng@unaffiliated/elkng] has joined #lisp 14:09:51 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:10:34 Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has joined #lisp 14:14:47 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 14:15:26 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@m37-198-44-214.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:16:06 -!- jewel [~jewel@41-133-109-236.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:19:16 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:21:23 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:24:14 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.135.192] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:24:37 m104 [~m104@mobile-166-137-184-180.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:36 bitonic` [~user@catv-80-99-254-250.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 14:30:36 _d3f [~gnu@46.183.216.234] has joined #lisp 14:34:48 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 14:34:59 jangle_ [~jimmy1984@dsl-164.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:54 Denommus` [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus/x-89635553] has joined #lisp 14:36:41 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:37:15 joe9 [~user@ip70-179-153-227.fv.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:41 ehu [~ehu@089144206243.atnat0015.highway.bob.at] has joined #lisp 14:39:30 -!- mns [~mns@c-24-63-187-147.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:46:48 -!- m104 [~m104@mobile-166-137-184-180.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 14:48:56 -!- Denommus` [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus/x-89635553] has quit [Quit: restarting] 14:50:02 -!- joe9 [~user@ip70-179-153-227.fv.ks.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:51:23 -!- agr [~agr@200-170-124-141.corp.ajato.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:53:51 Hi all. Say there is a Linux (ubuntu) guy (me) who just got a copy of Seibel's "practical common lisp" and would like to install lisp on his machine. What interpreter is my go-to choice ? 14:53:53 -!- arbscht_ [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:54:10 ASau [~user@p4FF97D53.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:54:39 *ggherdov* RTFM + link is wellcome 14:57:30 ggherdov: I'd be inclined to recommend SBCL, especially if you want to get advice and help here. OTOH, IIRC, the Debian SBCL packages are all gunked up with the "common lisp controller," which is nasty. 14:57:50 it's called "an interpretation" and the go-to one is SBCL 14:57:52 err 14:57:56 an implementation 14:57:56 rpg: thanks 14:58:00 stassats: thanks 14:58:01 So I suggest you download and install the tarball yourself from the SBCL web site. 14:58:06 ok 14:58:09 ggherdov: I've been using SBCL for that book and it's been working well so far (I'm on OSX though) 14:58:21 ok sjl 14:58:45 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:59:07 The standard "IDE" is emacs, using the SLIME library. Probably the easiest way to get going with libraries you need, including SLIME, will be to install quicklisp (google for "quicklisp Xach"). 14:59:29 there's http://random-state.net/files/nikodemus-cl-faq.txt 14:59:42 nice ! will check 14:59:59 don't forget quicklisp 15:00:04 ok 15:00:26 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 15:00:35 slime is not a library! it's a program 15:01:18 stassats: it's an emacs plugin! ;-) 15:01:24 sohail [~Adium@69-165-156-190.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 15:01:24 -!- sohail [~Adium@69-165-156-190.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 15:01:24 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 15:02:13 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-155-33.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:02:44 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Client Quit] 15:03:05 not a plugin either 15:03:36 joe9 [~user@ip70-179-153-227.fv.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:36 rpg: it's not. Lots of it are written in CL 15:04:17 joast [~rick@76.178.135.192] has joined #lisp 15:04:19 I will leave it to you to hash out a jargon of your choice. 15:04:50 _tca [~user@h151.25.91.207.static.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:23 arbscht_ [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 15:07:45 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:08 mns [~mns@c-24-63-187-147.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:58 oloe [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-140-37.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:13:16 Harag [~Thunderbi@41-132-83-33.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:14:13 mhi^ [~mhi@cable-158-181-76-15.cust.telecolumbus.net] has joined #lisp 15:19:33 -!- mns [~mns@c-24-63-187-147.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:19:34 tolk [~user@host182.190-30-206.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 15:23:30 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 15:23:50 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:27:04 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:27:05 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-wuefrnzjtrwafoea] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:29:08 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-34.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:29:31 boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:13 agr [~agr@200-170-124-141.corp.ajato.com.br] has joined #lisp 15:32:29 rkrish [~rkrish@192.241.167.136] has joined #lisp 15:32:31 mns [~mns@c-24-63-187-147.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:00 nilsi [~nilsi@124.79.138.223] has joined #lisp 15:37:55 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:38:06 -!- oloe [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-140-37.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:38:20 -!- mns [~mns@c-24-63-187-147.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:38:40 jagaj [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:40:12 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 15:43:36 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.107.161] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:43:50 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:44:20 ykm [~ykm@38.snat-111-91-51.hns.net.in] has joined #lisp 15:45:41 is alexandria still the reference for things like alist to plist? 15:45:59 -!- jagaj [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 15:46:21 yes 15:46:43 thx 15:46:43 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 15:47:17 oloe [~oleo@xdsl-87-79-252-91.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:47:19 -!- benkard [~benkard@dhcp-138-246-84-221.dynamic.eduroam.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 15:48:12 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@201.165.169.73] has joined #lisp 15:48:38 -!- hugoduncan is now known as hugod 15:50:58 -!- harish [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:51:12 -!- oloe [~oleo@xdsl-87-79-252-91.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 15:51:21 smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has joined #lisp 15:51:49 mns [~mns@c-24-63-187-147.hsd1.vt.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:52:09 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 15:56:19 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@107.200.11.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:57:31 mncoder [~mncoder@72.166.95.2] has joined #lisp 15:59:30 wbooze [~oleo@xdsl-84-44-153-182.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:00:16 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-233-110.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:00:23 -!- wbooze [~oleo@xdsl-84-44-153-182.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:00:30 -!- joe9 [~user@ip70-179-153-227.fv.ks.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed 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17:14:44 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 17:17:50 -!- oleo [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-195-171.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:19:16 Bike [~Glossina@75-175-67-103.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:18 -!- yakov [~yakov@81.3.129.2] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:22:12 -!- Bike_ [~Glossina@75-175-67-103.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:24:56 bitonic`` [~user@catv-80-99-254-250.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 17:25:47 -!- _d3f [~gnu@46.183.216.234] has quit [Quit: \o/] 17:26:24 -!- bitonic` [~user@catv-80-99-254-250.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:26:28 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:27:04 so I created a package, am in-package that package, and I want to create a class called LIST, but it keeps saying that is an error? 17:27:10 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-223-199-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 17:27:30 Lock on package COMMON-LISP violated when proclaiming LIST as a 17:27:31 class while in package builtins. 17:28:07 splittist [~splittist@192-39.63-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 17:28:27 oh, that looks stupid, the class I'm trying to define is |List| 17:29:41 this is correct 17:30:16 clhs 11.1.2.1.2 17:30:17 Constraints on the COMMON-LISP Package for Conforming Programs: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/11_abab.htm 17:30:28 right, but |List| should be ok? 17:30:59 well, |List| actually works. what I'm actually doing is setting the readtable to be case sensitive and defining List 17:31:23 which shouldn't conflict with anything in the CL package because at that point all the stuff in the CL package is all caps, and everything is case sensitive 17:32:49 -!- ykm [~ykm@38.snat-111-91-51.hns.net.in] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:33:26 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:34:17 oleo_ [542c9bfb@gateway/web/freenode/ip.84.44.155.251] has joined #lisp 17:36:33 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:53 it's a good way to cause confusion, having different types just because the case is different 17:38:23 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-155-251.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:39:02 case insensitivity is so 1985 17:39:12 ffilozov [~user@84.77.187.252] has joined #lisp 17:39:30 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-155-251.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:39:53 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-155-251.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:40:04 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-155-251.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:40:06 that's what i say everytime i use win/osx filesystems heh 17:40:14 *rszeno* messing things is so 2013 17:40:16 in CL i can deal because the naming convention isnt' case-oriented anyway 17:40:25 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-001-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:41:02 so if the readtable is set to :preserve case, List is the same symbol as |List| 17:41:04 right? 17:41:05 (insert splitting hairs about CL actually being case sensitive etc here) 17:42:03 in fact no, they aren't... wth 17:42:06 zacharias_ [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 17:42:21 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:42:24 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 17:44:57 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:45:10 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:45:16 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-155-251.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:45:42 chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:45:42 ltbarcly: then you aren't using :perverse readtable-case 17:45:43 or is it :preserve, same thing 17:46:35 hmm, binding *readtable* should change it immediately, right? 17:46:54 as in the next form should be read with the option set? 17:47:22 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:47:46 are you binding it in the same code you're reading? that's not going to work 17:48:36 yea, so it seems 17:48:39 ok, hmm 17:48:45 home sweet home! 17:48:47 lol 17:49:19 you either modify the current readtable, with a separate top-level form, or bind it around the call to READ or LOAD 17:49:59 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 17:50:11 -!- zacharias_ [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:50:36 hmm 17:50:43 http://paste.lisp.org/display/138353 17:50:55 if it's LOAD, you can do (setf *readtable* (copy-readtable)) (setf (readtable-case *readtable*) :preserve) 17:51:26 since LOAD does (let ((*readtable* *readtable*)) ...) 17:51:31 so here is what I am doing: I'm writing a compiler and targetting CL 17:51:32 ltbarcly: that form is READ first 17:51:36 -!- svs_ [~svs@rrcs-74-87-71-162.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: svs_] 17:51:52 so I want to set the readtable to :preserve for files I have compiled, but leave it alone for every other lisp file 17:52:02 executed after it's read 17:52:38 -!- bitonic`` [~user@catv-80-99-254-250.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:53:00 -!- arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-ndsrhqlnorpfjpht] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:53:04 ok, I guess I get it 17:53:05 bind it around your COMPILE-FILE and/or LOAD equivalent functions 17:53:09 better yet, if it's a different language, use your own reader 17:53:38 right, for some reason I thought that *readtable* could be swapped out mid file 17:54:12 damn lag 17:54:43 mid-file, yes, not mid current top-level form 17:54:49 .. oh 17:56:02 ok, crap 17:56:11 now I'm doubly confused, here is what I had originally that didn't work: 17:56:29 well, I was just setf'ing it at the top of the file after making a copy 17:57:17 maxter_ [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:19 does changing packages effect the readtable? 17:58:02 -!- maxter_ [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:58:06 http://paste.lisp.org/display/138353#1 17:58:17 that is the output of my compiler, and it craps out 17:58:20 you need to use EVAL-WHEN if you want that to work with compile-file 17:58:34 hmm 17:58:43 -!- maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:59:15 so if I LOAD this, it's fine 17:59:49 and you're using sb-c? what for? 18:00:03 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:00:14 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:00:14 yes, LOAD just evaluates one form at a time, whereas compile-file won't evaluate anything unless there's eval-when 18:00:20 Whitesqu_ [~notwhites@95.107.26.209] has joined #lisp 18:00:21 probably because I don't know what I'm doing 18:00:28 I wanted to implement a subclass of SEQUENCE 18:00:43 you don't need sb-c for that. 18:00:47 ok, removing 18:00:52 sb-c is the compiler of SBCL, using it in anywhere but sbcl is strange 18:00:57 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:01:35 ok, I fixed it 18:01:44 anyway, it looks like I can load that file fine 18:01:54 clhs eval-when 18:01:54 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_eval_w.htm 18:01:56 but not REQUIRE the package it is in 18:02:05 and you'll be able to use it with compile-file 18:02:11 mncoder_ [~mncoder@72.166.95.2] has joined #lisp 18:02:16 require? package? 18:02:20 require as in cl:require? that's got nothing to do with packages 18:02:38 a) don't use require unless you know what it will do b) what Bike said 18:03:28 the eval-when fixed it up 18:03:31 thanks guys!! 18:04:14 -!- mncoder [~mncoder@72.166.95.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:04:21 -!- Whitesquall [~notwhites@109.225.43.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:04:32 if you want to use your own language, don't use CL either, prefix all the symbols you want to use 18:04:44 use as in :use 18:05:11 ltbarcly: you can also shadow CL:LIST, or avoid using it altogether. 18:05:15 prefixing the symbols is hard, because then you have to track where they came from 18:05:30 ltbarcly: you're already printing them in uppercase 18:05:47 I'm printing lisp symbols in uppercase 18:05:50 ltbarcly: because you use random operators without knowing where they come from perhaps? 18:05:51 cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-30-148.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 18:06:02 -!- mncoder_ [~mncoder@72.166.95.2] has left #lisp 18:06:09 mncoder_ [~mncoder@72.166.95.2] has joined #lisp 18:06:17 ltbarcly: how much harder would it be to prefix them too? 18:06:26 -!- mncoder_ is now known as mncoder 18:06:26 pjb: in my little language, you can use lisp operators by using all-caps, and avoid conflicts by not using all-caps 18:06:37 do you mean prefix all the CL symbols? 18:06:40 That's a way to do it indeed. 18:06:55 ltbarcly: that's a weird language 18:06:56 I thought you meant prefix the symbols I was creating, yes, prefixing all cl symbols seems like a good idea 18:06:57 ltbarcly: not necessarily all of them. You can shadow each symbol individually. 18:07:10 how do you uppercase +? 18:07:23 stassats: that is not a valid symbol in my language 18:07:41 actually it is, but only if you apply escaping 18:08:06 (defpackage "MINE" (:use "CL") (:shadow "LIST")) (in-package "MINE") (defclass list () ()) (and (not (subtypep 'list 'cl:list)) (not (subtypep 'cl:list 'list))) 18:09:19 mmathis [~surya@198.199.68.171] has joined #lisp 18:09:27 here is an example of the language (note, this is a file that interacts with CL, so it is full of escaped symbols and that makes it kindof ugly): https://github.com/justinvanwinkle/mule/blob/master/src/lib/builtins.mule 18:10:28 here is a mundane example where you can see the all_caps thing in action: https://github.com/justinvanwinkle/mule/blob/master/src/test/test_class.mule 18:11:13 and here is the lisp code my compiler produces: https://github.com/justinvanwinkle/mule/blob/master/build/test/test_class.lisp 18:12:35 -!- sdi90 [~ase@ip56583baa.direct-adsl.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:14:02 oh, this has been bugging me 18:14:06 why is equalp case insensitive? 18:14:16 because equal isn't 18:14:44 yea, but equal won't compare integers and floats 18:14:50 or cast them or whatever 18:14:54 incorrect 18:15:08 you mean together, then yes 18:15:16 right 18:15:22 that's the same as being case insensitive 18:15:25 so that is kindof a pain in the butt 18:15:30 not really 18:15:34 clhs = 18:15:34 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_eq_sle.htm 18:15:36 I mean, it is akin to it 18:15:37 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@124.79.138.223] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:15:47 yea, but = can only compare numbers 18:16:37 do you have a problem with that? 18:16:46 not a personal problem 18:16:51 but it does make things harder 18:16:56 harder? 18:17:02 sure, I'm writing a compiler 18:17:09 it make take two lines instead of one, but that's not harder by any means 18:17:13 -!- splittist [~splittist@192-39.63-188.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:17:13 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:17:15 two lines? 18:17:33 it's not that easy 18:17:45 for example, lots of things let you pass an equality operator 18:17:50 (if (and (numberp x) (numberp y)) (= x y) (equal x y)) 18:17:54 -!- sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:18:07 but many times you can't pass an arbitrary one, just one of eq, eql, equal, equalp 18:18:07 you're complaining that the language you have has different semantics from CL? 18:18:18 yati [~yati@223.239.192.117] has joined #lisp 18:18:47 I'm not complaining, I just don't know how to get around it 18:18:59 that's only for hashtables 18:19:45 so I think SBCL will let me create a new equality function for hash-tables 18:19:53 it will 18:20:02 it's a nonportable extension, but I don't plan on targetting anything else for the time being 18:20:05 it's called a hash-function 18:20:19 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:20:20 Hi. How can a function find the actual name of another function passed to it? as in -> (defun outer (f) (format nil "you gave me ~a" (??? # 18:20:24 minion: advice on portable? 18:20:25 #12017: It doesn't need to be portable, it just needs to work on your system. 18:20:39 clhs f-l-e 18:20:39 function-lambda-expression: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_fn_lam.htm 18:20:59 sorry (defun outer (f) (format nil "you gave me ~a" (??? f))) 18:20:59 yati: usually works, but may just return NIL 18:21:41 (or (and (functionp f) (nth-value 2 (function-lambda-expression f))) f) 18:23:14 -!- mncoder [~mncoder@72.166.95.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:23:42 stassats, awesome :) thanks! Also, is multiple return values the same as returning a list? I've seen people using multiple-value-bind for getting values from functions returning multiple values 18:23:48 like f-l-e 18:23:57 it's not the same 18:24:01 mncoder [~mncoder@72.166.95.2] has joined #lisp 18:28:03 -!- rurufufuss [~rurufufus@115-64-27-246.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:29:11 -!- ndrei [~avo@mtl93-2-82-66-118-59.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:30:43 ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:18 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 18:34:43 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-025-059.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:25 -!- mmathis [~surya@198.199.68.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:37:10 -!- ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:37:59 mmathis [~surya@198.199.68.171] has joined #lisp 18:38:46 ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:46 -!- Praise- is now known as Praise 18:39:27 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 18:39:36 Quadresce_ [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 18:39:41 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:39:42 benny [~user@maidenhead3.tunnelr.com] has joined #lisp 18:39:49 -!- Quadresce_ is now known as Quadrescence 18:40:35 rurufufuss [~rurufufus@115-64-27-246.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 18:43:04 sirdancealo2 [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 18:47:13 -!- ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:47:39 knobo [~knobo@81.175.44.217] has joined #lisp 18:48:15 ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:39 yati: see: http://paste.lisp.org/display/132174#1 18:50:33 yati: i really hope you wouldn't use that 18:51:19 It will work more often than function-lambda-expression. 18:52:35 still doesn't make it a good idea 18:52:53 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@201.165.169.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:53:36 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 18:54:39 and why is it using list-all-packages and do-symbols instead of do-all-symbols? 18:56:01 seangrove [~user@173-164-213-29-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:15 stassats: annotate the paste! 18:59:28 (Well you should have when I posted it, annotations are time limited :-() 18:59:36 why would i? that way is a bad idea 18:59:43 That's a very good idea. 18:59:48 It's conforming. 18:59:58 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 19:00:03 And it will return ALL the names of a function. 19:00:19 even if it takes a minute? 19:00:41 stassats: don't you realize that what's wrong is not this function, but asking for this function? 19:01:03 it is not wrong 19:01:05 (setf (symbol-function 'premier) (symbol-function 'first)) 19:01:18 It is a wrong question. 19:02:05 by which metric is it wrong? 19:02:32 in that there's no a 100% guaranteed way? which means that you should abandon it even if it works in 98% of the cases? 19:02:35 functions don't have names. 19:04:09 and that technical quibble stops you from solving a real problem? 19:04:20 My function works 100% of the time, at collecting all the symbols that are fbound to that function. 19:04:26 That's all you can ask and all you can get. 19:05:31 The point is that asking that is as good an idea as asking to append iteratively elements to the end of a list. 19:06:08 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Parting is such sweet sorrow...] 19:07:17 -!- ltbarcly_ [~textual@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:07:52 which is not the same thing 19:08:31 f-l-e works, works in constant time, when it doesn't work, you can just print the function 19:09:15 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:23 whoa - thanks pjb - I think I can see what it is doing. f-l-e works like a charm in my case(I should have given more background, it looks like) - I was learning about monads(excellent link: http://blog.sigfpe.com/2006/08/you-could-have-invented-monads-and.html) and wanted to translate it to CL just for the heck of it. Not bad so far :) 19:13:44 you need function names for monads? 19:13:45 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-137-145.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:00 doing (time (function-names #'list)) takes about a second here, which is prohibitive if you're doing it more than once or interactively 19:16:19 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-121-175.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:16:42 -!- ffilozov [~user@84.77.187.252] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:17:28 -!- yati [~yati@223.239.192.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:17:37 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 19:19:09 If I use DEFSTRUCT is there a way to export all of the symbols that DEFSTRUCT generates? 19:19:14 so, I am up to the point where I have to implement some kind of ability to import from other modules in my language. the model I am thinking of is something like ruby, where you can either load a file (pulling it's top level forms into the current top level), or you can 'require' a module, which is the same as load but won't load something that is already loaded. any thoughts on this model and how you would do it with CL? 19:19:26 drmeister: by hand, yes 19:19:29 -!- mncoder [~mncoder@72.166.95.2] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:19:45 drmeister: or you can employ slime to do that for you M-x slime-export-structure 19:19:47 oh, I mean 'require' wouldn't re-read the file, otherwise it would have the same effect as 'load' 19:20:07 REQUIRE doesn't have defined semantics 19:20:13 yati, you could be interested in this http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/v_pl_plp.htm#PLPLPL 19:20:24 stassats: right, the lingo is confusing here, I meant like ruby require 19:20:29 stassats: function-names works also in constant time.e 19:20:37 stassats: Thanks. 19:20:49 I have to implement this for my language, that the actions have the same names as common-lisp actions is coincidental 19:20:52 in general, not a lot of new symbols are interned at run-time usually. 19:21:04 therefore it's O(10000) = O(1). 19:21:23 you can't know ahead of time the number of symbols 19:21:37 my system may have 1 symbol, drmeister's can have a million 19:21:46 Well, in any case it's bound by the size of the memory. 19:21:53 and he maybe running on a low-powered smartphone 19:22:20 ok, you're just being facetious 19:22:25 I would be more worried about running in a distributed environment of some kind 19:22:36 not that it exists 19:22:56 drmeister: there's a @export annotation that let you do that. Similarly, you can wrap your defstruct in a macro that will compute the symbols generated by the defstruct and export them. 19:22:56 ltbarcly: you can name it "employ" 19:23:24 drmeister: but in general, the programmer doesn't want to export ALL the symbols defined by defstruct. 19:23:47 pjb: Got it - thanks, I see that it could lead to problems. 19:24:25 and there's no @export annotations, or any kind of annotations in CL 19:24:55 Yes, somebody implemented them! 19:24:55 you can bastardize your CL with cl-annot 19:25:23 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-30-148.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:25:27 next time, suggest that you can just write python code 19:25:34 somebody wrote cl-python 19:25:45 stassats: is that directed to me? 19:25:51 ltbarcly: to pjb 19:26:04 It's a java thing :-) 19:26:06 even worse. 19:26:11 ltbarcly: and his useful suggestions 19:27:26 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 19:27:55 pjb: having a way to do export annotations is relevant to my interests for this project I'm working on, I'm not sure if you where here when I was bitching about XCVB 19:29:21 so anyway, I think I can get away with this for load: just map it to CL load 19:30:05 for "require", I can either use CL:REQUIRE, or I can write it as a wrapper that calls load but remembers what files it has already loaded 19:30:21 you can't use cl:require for anything sensible 19:30:23 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:30:25 stassats: you seem to think that CL:REQUIRE is cancer? 19:30:28 cdidd [~cdidd@128-68-15-213.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 19:30:31 yea, can you tell me what the story is there? 19:30:42 is it that it's not specified, so nonportable? 19:30:54 is there a tutorial for a codewalker? I'm trying to open a file determine if the form is a setq and if it is add it is pair to an alist. I don't even know where to start. (It is for emacs lisp btw). Is a codewalker even necessary to achive my gaol? 19:31:05 ltbarcly: anything can happen when you call it 19:31:20 well, not anything, what kind sof things :) 19:31:30 like monkeys won't fly out of my butt 19:31:32 if you just want to load a file, there's LOAD 19:31:38 ok, so that covers LOAD 19:31:59 so what if I want LOAD but like a fast version that doesn't re read the forms in the file? 19:32:10 PuercoPop: you don't need a code-walker 19:32:10 think if import in python, for example 19:32:31 PuercoPop: are you making some sort of a config file? 19:32:33 -!- ehu [~ehu@089144206243.atnat0015.highway.bob.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:32:37 I mean think of import 19:32:41 ehu` [~ehu@089144206243.atnat0015.highway.bob.at] has joined #lisp 19:32:53 XCVB is only a proof of concept. 19:32:58 ltbarcly: compile it first 19:33:10 I'm loading my passwords to an alist as to present them in a 1password style interface. 19:33:10 -!- CrazyEddy [~vitrescen@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Quit: .] 19:33:33 PuercoPop: why don't you just load the file? 19:33:52 with load-file, it will execute it, set the variable and you will be able to use it then 19:34:12 We don't even use it at ITA, at least for now. It's a grand experiment, and if it's going to go anywhere, someone new needs to take up the torch, because Fare is probably not gonna be doing it anymore. 19:34:31 araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has joined #lisp 19:34:31 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.45.171] has quit [Changing host] 19:34:31 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 19:34:58 CrazyEddy [~steradian@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 19:35:29 foom: as far as I can tell, basically nobody is using it. The build has at least two bugs, including a hard-coded path to sbcl in like /ita/opt/bin 19:35:48 so you can't even build it without mucking with it to take out ita specific stuff, and if ita isn't using it, I'm not sure who that leaves 19:36:19 benkard [~benkard@tmo-107-119.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lisp 19:36:55 ltbarcly: i think not "basically nobody", but probably actually nobody. 19:37:04 I tried pretty hard 19:37:11 An hour isn't that hard. :) 19:37:24 to compile something? 19:38:23 Right, it's definitely not off-the-shelf ready-to-use software, it's a project with a great idea, but in need of a developer. 19:38:54 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:38:54 stassats: because then I wouldn't know which variables it setted. Right now that is why I am using and from accessing them from emacs is perfect. I want an interface to list them and allow be to copy them to the clipboard so I can use them outside of emacs 19:39:25 so you have a random form in a file? 19:39:38 and there's a chance that it will look like what you might expect? 19:39:44 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:39:59 that's quite fuzzy 19:40:21 chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:41:09 well the form is just a setq with different variables such as freenode-username gmail-password, etc 19:41:26 do you write that file? 19:41:31 yes 19:41:52 then you can write it in a particular way which can be easily parsed 19:42:26 i myself have such a file with passwords, to avoid checking them into my emacs config git repository 19:42:27 -!- agr [~agr@200-170-124-141.corp.ajato.com.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:42:33 yes I can use a prefix for all variables but I wanted to make it general as so other people could benefit from it 19:42:37 -!- knobo [~knobo@81.175.44.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:42:44 and it just sets the variables i later use 19:43:11 yeah same here. I took the workflow from the emacs-fu guy. 19:43:49 (setq erc-password "EGs[mqzt)XKbC8b") etc., and then use that erc-password 19:44:16 PuercoPop: you're over-thinking, nobody will even consider using such a complicated system 19:45:04 -!- ehu` [~ehu@089144206243.atnat0015.highway.bob.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:46:06 certainly it has not mass appeal but the idea is to not complicate the users so they just say this is my passwords module. 19:46:26 it's a config file, if you spend more than a minute making this, you're doing it wrong 19:47:00 yes, just loading a file will do wonders and can be used by anybody else 19:47:29 i don't see how parsing it will make it somehow better, people still would need to refer to that saved password 19:47:45 and setting a variable and later using it is the best solution 19:48:16 and i'm already spending more time than warranted for such a problem writing this 19:48:35 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:48:42 to make it available to emacs. But say I want to login to tumblr and github and my passwords is stored in emacs. I have to either open the file and copy it of C-h v it. 19:48:43 *PuercoPop* nods 19:49:49 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:49:56 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-164-232.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:20 -!- sellout is now known as Guest39655 19:50:27 and your system will magically know which of the passwords you want to copy now? 19:51:20 if you present a list of passwords, well, then you can do (setq puercopop-passwords '(github "123456" twitter "tw1tter")) 19:51:22 the idea is it will present the user with a sequence of buttons from the password file I configure it to load 19:52:13 if you really want to parse and hate the idea of having to use SETQ, you can always read that form 19:52:29 how: i will leave this as an exercise to the reader 19:54:03 normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:54:26 -!- Guest39655 is now known as sellout- 19:55:31 *PuercoPop* nods. I am aware of forward-sexp and read. just not of a way to do is-sexp-setq-p 19:56:10 PuercoPop: this is not #emacs, again 19:56:50 but if you're aware of READ, then answering is-sexp-setq-p is trivial in both CL and elisp 19:56:53 *PuercoPop* nods 19:57:13 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 19:57:33 and if you're going to be parsing it, why do you have to use SETQ? 19:57:46 setq only makes sense if you're executing it 19:58:39 because I execute it to make available to emacs and use it the same way you do. 20:00:03 well then, you have everything you need in READ 20:01:17 I think many of life's problems can be solved if people would just read 20:02:09 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:05:27 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:08:20 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-223-199-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:08:44 see what I did there? it was a pun! 20:09:03 *ltbarcly* steps into traffic 20:09:15 if you have to explain it, then it probably wasn't funny 20:09:45 what are you trying to say? 20:10:15 I slightly smirked, if that means anything to you. 20:10:36 ok ok, a 1-lisp and a 2-lisp walk into a bar 20:10:57 are you sure it's not lisp-1 and lisp-2? 20:11:07 hard crowd 20:11:43 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-34.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12:20 so, where's the rest of the joke? lisp-2 drinks his drink, while lisp-1 drinks his drnk? 20:13:06 oh, I didn't have a real joke, give me 1 minute and you might want to go to the bathroom, because it's going to be so funny you pee your pants 20:13:59 my improv coach says "always set expectations as high as possible" 20:14:02 but he drinks a lot 20:16:05 lisp-1 and lisp-2 walk into a bar. lisp-1 says, "can you ask the bartender to get me a coke" and lisp-2 says, "The variable ASK-BARTENDER is unbound." 20:16:27 fuck yea 20:17:17 because asking you to ask someone is almost enough like passing a function as an argument to a function that it would cause humorous feelings in the listener 20:17:47 I bet nobody else is responding because they all died of laughter. 20:18:22 a ruby programmer and a python programmer walk into a bar. they proceed to drink heavily and over the course of the night become friends. the ruby programmer is still a dirty hippy 20:18:27 was unbound because the evaluations is broken, the variable name should be ASK-THE-BARTENDER 20:18:31 ltbarcly: if lisp-1 is doing the asking, that means he calls the function, and the arguments are evaluated before calling the function 20:18:44 I love you guys 20:18:46 so, there will no unbound variable problem 20:19:31 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-175-67-103.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:19:32 stassats: to communicate they sent serialized representations of their internal mental model to each other 20:21:19 and lisp-1 can't ask the bartender itself because it's to pure and can't do side-effects 20:21:21 ? 20:21:26 s/to/too/ 20:21:40 Joreji [~thomas@ip-213-135-245-76.static.luxdsl.pt.lu] has joined #lisp 20:21:59 oh, in my mind lisp-1 was going to go to the bathroom and wanted his drink when he got back 20:22:19 but your way is as much funner as is possible within the confines of this joke universe 20:22:44 actually, I like that 20:22:54 lisp-1, lisp-2, and haskell walk into a bar 20:22:57 Bike [~Glossina@75-175-67-103.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:12 implying lisp-1 is scheme, it doesn't have to go the bathroom, it can just call the continuation where his bladder is empty 20:25:08 lisp-1, lisp-2 and haskell walk into a bar, (joke setup here), and then nobody uses haskell for anything 20:25:54 the bar is in france, haskell orders lemonad 20:27:05 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-175-67-103.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:28:12 Bike [~Glossina@75-175-67-103.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:38 -!- CrazyEddy [~steradian@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:30:54 -!- benkard [~benkard@tmo-107-119.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:31:34 lisp-1, lisp-2 and haskell walk into a bar. The bartender is called foo 20:32:33 a shell command walks into a bar, and wakes up all the way on the other side of grep 20:34:44 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: (invoke-restart 'dtw:sleep)] 20:36:27 foo is nickname of footender? :) 20:36:47 I just noticed that paste.lisp.org hyperlinks every function and macro to the hyperspec. Nice 20:37:08 zoek1 [~zoek1@189.128.241.21] has joined #lisp 20:37:37 nha [~prefect@koln-4d0b1162.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:27 -!- sdemarre [~serge@109.134.135.77] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:38:38 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-121-175.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:39:07 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@70-89-202-126-invergrove-mn.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: patrickwonders] 20:40:21 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49:41 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 20:50:49 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 20:52:01 -!- cscorp [~csorp@50-192-42-94-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: cscorp] 20:53:29 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 20:55:28 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@CPE-58-164-70-6.lns1.ken.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Bye] 20:57:13 Is there anything like slime-who-references thatll include packages that export the symbol? 20:58:36 that's trivial to write 20:58:41 stassats: But its not there? 20:58:47 it isn't 21:02:31 - 21:03:00 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:03:40 CrazyEddy [~Corinthia@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 21:04:07 -!- elkng [~elkng@unaffiliated/elkng] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:04:30 AeroNotix [~xeno@abov93.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:05:35 elkng [~elkng@unaffiliated/elkng] has joined #lisp 21:05:50 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:05:55 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.193.178.224] has joined #lisp 21:08:54 -!- Joreji [~thomas@ip-213-135-245-76.static.luxdsl.pt.lu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:11:31 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 21:11:57 -!- prxq_ [~mommer@95.117.198.88] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:13:59 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:15:52 -!- MrRacoon_ [suthere@reaver.cat.pdx.edu] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:15:56 -!- nitefli [sage@reaver.cat.pdx.edu] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.9] 21:26:47 Vicfred [~Vicfred@187.206.72.203] has joined #lisp 21:30:29 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-175-67-103.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 21:30:36 Bike [~Glossina@75-175-67-103.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:04 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2-dev] 21:32:14 -!- CrazyEddy [~Corinthia@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:33:21 tidux [~jon@c-24-61-183-110.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:12 -!- tidux [~jon@c-24-61-183-110.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has left #lisp 21:34:29 yakov [~yakov@176.14.91.199] has joined #lisp 21:37:56 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:38:36 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 21:39:25 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:40:44 -!- arbscht_ [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:46:34 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:41 CrazyEddy [~Sarcoptid@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 21:56:25 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@farnsworth.chem.temple.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:57 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 22:06:23 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-025-059.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:07:18 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Parting is such sweet sorrow...] 22:08:03 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-121-175.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 22:08:43 -!- jangle_ [~jimmy1984@dsl-164.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Quit: jangle_] 22:08:45 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 22:13:10 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abov93.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 22:15:08 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:16:33 Joreji [~thomas@ip-213-135-245-76.static.luxdsl.pt.lu] has joined #lisp 22:17:22 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@rrcs-108-178-120-144.sw.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 22:22:40 drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.87.193] has joined #lisp 22:23:28 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:23:45 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:27:37 nialo [~nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:06 jaccarmac [~Adium@c-67-182-91-1.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:25 -!- jaccarmac [~Adium@c-67-182-91-1.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:38:04 fridim_ [~fridim@bas2-montreal07-2925317871.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:38:14 -!- Whitesqu_ [~notwhites@95.107.26.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:38:16 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 22:44:40 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:45:49 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:50:02 -!- arnsa [~arnsa@78-63-18-208.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:51:30 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52:06 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 22:52:15 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@166.137.87.193] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52:23 -!- Joreji [~thomas@ip-213-135-245-76.static.luxdsl.pt.lu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:53:00 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 22:56:04 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:59:29 is there a reasonable way to determine the 'important' symbols in a package? for example, if I do (loop for s being each present-symbol ... I get the symbols 'for 's 'being 'each etc etc as symbols 23:00:05 clhs do-external-symbols 23:00:05 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_do_sym.htm 23:01:02 ohhhhh 23:01:10 from the name I thought that meant exported symbols 23:01:27 Yes, that's what it means. 23:01:37 Those are the imporatnat symbols in a package. 23:02:05 Or do you mean your bowels are more important to your girfriend than your eyes and skin? 23:02:21 It's not quite what it means? 23:02:35 I just ran it on a package with no external symbols, and it gave me the function and the parameter defined in it 23:02:37 ahem 23:02:39 damn it 23:02:41 no exported symbols 23:02:48 it had no exported symbols, it had 2 external symbols 23:02:53 Adeon_ [~makrillit@109.73.169.52] has joined #lisp 23:02:53 (Well, depends on the circumstances of course. If you crash in the Himalaya, your liver will indeed become more important to her survival than your skin :-)) 23:03:11 ltbarcly: what does "exported" mean if not "external"? 23:03:20 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@99.148.203.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:03:22 -!- Subfusc [~Subfusc@tjenen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:03:30 alls I'm saying is, there are some symbols, they are not exported, they are external 23:03:45 -!- Squid_Tamer [~s@198.23.138.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:03:55 "export makes one or more symbols that are accessible in package (whether directly or by inheritance) be external symbols of that package." 23:04:01 Subfusc_ [~Subfusc@tjenen.de] has joined #lisp 23:04:03 crap 23:04:04 exported = external. 23:04:06 nm 23:04:10 -!- mtd [~martin@ops-13.xades.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:04:10 -!- Adeon [~makrillit@109.73.169.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:05:04 mtd [~martin@82.68.80.108] has joined #lisp 23:05:14 what I meant to say was of course you are correct and nevermind 23:05:22 Squid_Tamer [~s@198.23.138.21] has joined #lisp 23:05:41 -!- |3b| [bbb@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:5b65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:07:53 -!- zoek1 [~zoek1@189.128.241.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:08:24 tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.18.110] has joined #lisp 23:08:58 holycow [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:27 so I had this theory that I could somehow iterate over the symbols of a package, and just export all the symbols that are defined in that package if they don't start with a _ 23:10:27 but if that is possible, it looks like the solution might be complicated 23:10:43 because I don't want to export things like "in" just because it's used in a loop macro somewhere in the package 23:10:46 -!- ltbarcly [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:10:48 danielszmulewicz [~danielszm@109.226.23.50] has joined #lisp 23:10:49 probably would get you a lot of variables and crap 23:11:15 ltbarcly [~jvanwink@pool-71-116-73-196.snfcca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:17 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:19 you could take everything bound or fbound or class names or whatever 23:11:20 Denommus` [~user@201.75.85.68] has joined #lisp 23:11:40 sorry, did I miss anything? the last thing I see is me saying because I don't... 23:11:52 there are public logs 23:11:57 fair enough 23:13:11 Bike: but won't I also see any symbols that came from packages :use'd by my current package? 23:13:45 no, those aren't in the package, just accessible from it 23:15:50 nha_ [~prefect@koln-4d0dc129.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 23:16:32 -!- mhi^ [~mhi@cable-158-181-76-15.cust.telecolumbus.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:18:20 -!- nha [~prefect@koln-4d0b1162.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:20:12 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:28 -!- Denommus` is now known as Denommus 23:20:34 -!- Denommus [~user@201.75.85.68] has quit [Changing host] 23:20:35 Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 23:20:54 -!- nha_ [~prefect@koln-4d0dc129.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:23:17 Bike: does this seem to cover all the bases? (loop for s being each present-symbol in *package* when (or (fboundp s) (boundp s) (find-class s nil)) do (print s)) 23:23:44 the find-class one makes me a little nervous 23:23:52 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:24:00 why? and i don't know, try it and see if it gets what you want 23:24:14 no 23:24:38 because the class can be defined anywhere and find-class will still find it 23:24:46 just checked 23:24:54 i'm not sure what you mean? class names are still packaged. 23:24:59 hmm 23:25:39 besides keywords, what else isn't packaged? 23:25:49 keywords are in the keyword package. 23:26:06 http://paste.lisp.org/display/138356 23:26:20 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:26:26 Bike: yes, I know, I just meant to say... what else won't be packaged on the current package? 23:26:36 so if you run that paste, you get XXX printed out 23:26:54 and *x*, surely? 23:26:56 if I take away the (print 'XXX), you don't get it printed out 23:27:10 no, look closely, *x* is defined in test, I'm printing out test2's stuff 23:27:31 *y* does though 23:29:18 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.193.178.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:29:20 I don't think I understand the problem. XXX is printed or not printed because of your print call. If it was printed in the loop as well, you'd see it twice. 23:30:35 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 23:30:54 ok, I'm going to go over here 23:30:57 sorry to waste your time 23:31:01 yea, that was dumb 23:39:50 tolk` [~user@host23.190-225-91.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 23:41:50 -!- tolk [~user@host182.190-30-206.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:45:08 -!- rurufufuss [~rurufufus@115-64-27-246.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:45:17 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@201.165.169.73] has joined #lisp 23:46:34 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 23:48:01 arbscht_ [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 23:49:54 |3b| [bbb@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fedf:5b65] has joined #lisp 23:50:16 bitonic`` [~user@catv-80-99-254-250.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 23:53:59 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 23:54:19 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:54:20 -!- arare [~Aramur@153.68.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: arare] 23:54:51 chameco [~samuel@cpe-74-69-188-107.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:55:04 -!- tolk` is now known as tolk 23:57:14 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 23:57:49 -!- holycow [~holycow@host-216-251-135-194.bchsia.skywaywest.net] has left #lisp 23:58:26 KDr2 [~KDr2@123.122.105.19] has joined #lisp