00:05:50 -!- foom [jknight@nat/google/x-txpygwjytydkbeik] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:06:31 daat418 [~daat418@mobile-166-137-185-252.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 00:09:22 foom [jknight@nat/google/x-nfwyiltaivbteiti] has joined #lisp 00:10:35 is there a good C compiler written in CL? or maybe a C-->CL compiler that allows you to then (compile (read ...)) what you get? 00:12:06 In other news, PostgreSQL 9.3 has support for "Background Worker" so we could start an "embedded" lisp image when PostgreSQL starts and have PL/CL (procedural language) that would actually run the lisp code in the already available image, or something, I don't know yet how to best articulate thoughs around that 00:14:46 -!- setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@119.201.52.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:14:57 -!- agr [~agr@189.38.143.46] has quit [Quit: agr] 00:16:58 Cheery [~cheery@boxbase.org] has joined #lisp 00:17:08 hi 00:17:37 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:19:33 I remember the discussion about whitespace/indent sensitive syntax for lisp. 00:22:47 just wondering how many compilers/parsers/languages/syntaxes there are, which are good for lisp? 00:23:45 I wrote my own for a compiler project I had, but it has few fringes that could introduce terrible errors. 00:24:24 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@199-7-156-157.eng.wind.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:25:25 i'm not exactly sure what you're asking. Are you asking for good lisp implementations? 00:26:21 fenton [~fenton@ppp-115-87-57-61.revip4.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 00:27:14 I'm not. I'm asking for alternative syntax, anything goes. 00:27:49 I tried to write one alternative syntax, but I'm not happy to it. 00:27:52 compilation and parsing are completely different processes 00:29:47 it's vague question, because I'm looking for vague things. 00:30:55 well i've seen http://readable.sourceforge.net/ before, but i don't really see the point 00:31:38 that's exactly something I was looking for 00:31:40 http://draketo.de/light/english/wisp-lisp-indentation-preprocessor 00:31:58 as well as this. 00:33:57 http://brianwill.net/blog/2012/02/07/animvs-lisp-for-people-who-dont-like-lisp/ 00:34:43 ehaliewicz: as long as I'm writing code with text editor, I see the point. 00:34:46 the thing is that syntax is kind of boring. 00:36:07 Bike: do you love more verbose syntax? 00:36:32 i don't have emotions concerning syntax nearly as strong as love. 00:36:45 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-50-162.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:36:54 i wonder how well paredit would work with indentation-based syntax 00:37:15 if you want you can write your own syntax for lisp programs. CL supports this with reader macros, and other than that you could just use a preprocessor. 00:37:30 this is a reasonably solved problem, with parser generators and all. 00:37:46 I guess I'll go and pick the paredit up as well. 00:38:13 paddymahoney [~patrick@199.119.232.221] has joined #lisp 00:39:49 -!- fenton [~fenton@ppp-115-87-57-61.revip4.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:40:20 Bike: that's why I thought I'd find some help here. :) and I see I found. 00:40:28 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@199.119.232.221] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 00:40:59 I weren't just smart enough to look into it before writing my own parser. 00:41:07 CADD [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has joined #lisp 00:42:27 paddymahoney [~patrick@199.119.232.221] has joined #lisp 00:42:34 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:42:42 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:42:53 catmtking [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:43:27 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@199.119.232.221] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 00:44:24 paddymahoney [~patrick@199.119.232.221] has joined #lisp 00:44:31 -!- catmtking [~catmtking@108-224-122-111.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:45:08 that compiler project I told about. It's bit of python code using LLVM and libclang bindings. 00:45:35 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@171.216.154.167] has left #lisp 00:47:08 it isn't very interesting, might be you won't hear about it again. 00:48:08 I've got one older version which compiled calls to C-functions and automaticly figured out function signatures. 00:48:37 and newer version which is able to compile small factorial program without subroutines/functions/closures 00:50:08 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:50:10 next I'll implement parametric types, type inferencing, generics and memory structures. 00:51:31 pitkali [~Adium@h-123-172-59.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 00:54:23 ngk [~nicolai@50.157.193.191] has joined #lisp 00:54:25 it was just some fiddling at first, but I got addicted to compilers. not going to leave project until I can compile small games. 00:55:54 -!- daat418 [~daat418@mobile-166-137-185-252.mycingular.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:56:33 hey, if I have source directories linked symbolically into something registered in ASDF source-registry, than ASDF should be able to find system definitions there, right? 00:57:45 I'm asking because it looks as if on my CCL 1.9 asdf did not follow symbolic links when searching for definitions in the registry... 00:58:18 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:58:40 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:3686:f3e0:c11d:a96c:8e73:d206] has joined #lisp 00:58:40 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:59:58 pitkali: is it configured as a tree? 00:59:58 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:00:06 yes 01:00:10 it works on sbcl 1.1.9 01:00:20 *Xach* doesn't know what's supposed to work 01:00:30 the definitions are found 01:00:48 say I have cloned iolib's master into ~/Sources 01:01:33 and then did ln -sf ~/Sources/iolib ~/.local/share/common-lisp/source 01:02:00 on sbcl 1.1.9 this will result in loading iolib from ~/Sources/iolib, but not on ccl 1.9 01:02:17 both on stock ASDF's, and newest release that reports itself as 3.0.2 01:03:07 daat418 [~daat418@mobile-166-137-187-244.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:08 ASDF manual specifically talks about linking directories, so I'm confused, if it's bug in ASDF or some special feature of sbcl, or whatever 01:03:31 I could not figure out asdf configuration so I use ~/quicklisp/local-projects/ usually 01:03:53 I bet that if I linked into there, it's still not going to work 01:04:08 or wait, I'll check that too 01:04:20 stardiviner [~quassel@218.74.179.178] has joined #lisp 01:05:09 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@199.119.232.221] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:05:40 hmm 01:05:49 actually linking into that directory works 01:05:55 curious 01:06:24 I need to see how quicklisp interacts with asdf to make this work 01:06:39 quicklisp adds its own system-definition search function 01:06:54 it doesn't use the new-style system registration configuration thing 01:07:16 prxq_ [~mommer@mnhm-590c312a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:33 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:09:57 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c173a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:12:51 yeah, I can see 01:13:04 I'm going to just file a bug for ASDF 01:13:28 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has commenced electric sheep tracking protocol.] 01:14:10 thanks anyway 01:14:22 -!- pitkali [~Adium@h-123-172-59.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has left #lisp 01:15:20 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:17:15 bitonic [~user@ppp-243-184.27-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 01:19:02 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:25:51 barglfargl 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[~quassel@cpe-70-112-159-86.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:56:16 -!- CADD [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:57:55 -!- ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:58:08 -!- daat418 [~daat418@c-67-180-90-80.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 02:58:54 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:01:40 -!- barglfargl [~barglfarg@24-197-167-134.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:04:09 -!- Tribal [tribal@rcfreak0.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:07:21 hey guys 03:07:40 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:07:56 havin an issue here https://github.com/ahungry/pseudo/blob/master/pseudo.lisp#L79 03:08:32 When first loading the file, the parenscript in my (ps tag isn't recognizing a macro defined with (defmacro+ps of that name maps-to-js on initial quickload of the project 03:08:44 but if I then re-compile the web-assets function it works 03:09:00 is there a call I can use to force a re-compile of a function on load? 03:10:01 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:12:24 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:14:14 Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:16 fridim_ [~fridim@184-8-248-180.dr01.glvv.ny.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:49 doesthiswork [~Adium@174-31-178-247.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:21:28 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 03:21:52 -!- doesthiswork [~Adium@174-31-178-247.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:23:54 Tribal [tribal@rcfreak0.com] has joined #lisp 03:28:45 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:3686:f3e0:c11d:a96c:8e73:d206] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 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07:55:35 sdemarre [~serge@38.166-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 07:57:57 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:00:05 -!- sdemarre [~serge@38.166-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:01:03 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 08:01:26 jewel [~jewel@105-236-120-81.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:03:17 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:04:28 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 08:06:32 jagaj_ [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:07:50 -!- jagaj [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:07:51 -!- jagaj_ is now known as jagaj 08:10:46 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-26-137-145.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 08:13:47 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@124.79.136.212] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:13:53 ph88 [5597cc14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.151.204.20] has joined #lisp 08:15:08 nilsi [~nilsi@124.79.136.212] has joined #lisp 08:15:59 Teratogen [leontopod@unaffiliated/teratogen] has joined #lisp 08:17:47 protist [~protist@64.172.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 08:19:04 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@46.78.150.98] has joined #lisp 08:19:54 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@124.79.136.212] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:21:14 tolk [~user@host243.190-226-93.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 08:23:08 how to calculate (2 ^ 64 -1) ? 08:23:41 what problem do you have with doing it? 08:23:57 do you know how to subtract? 08:24:10 i forget the function name :) 08:24:13 or you don't know how to exponentiate? 08:24:14 clhs expt 08:24:14 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_exp_e.htm 08:24:33 stassats: thx 08:31:02 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:53:07 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:55:33 -!- JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-210-215.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:59:04 zRecursive: another way is: (ldb (byte 64 0) -1) 08:59:17 yet another (mask-field (byte 64 0) -1) 08:59:30 ehu [~Erik@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 09:02:55 great 09:05:39 milosn [~milosn@user-5af50bca.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 09:05:58 -!- NickLevine [~chatzilla@ravenbrook.nsdsl.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.90.1 [Firefox 22.0/20130618035212]] 09:06:00 -!- CrazyEddy [~superserv@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Quit: .] 09:06:29 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:06:53 CrazyEddy [~noninstru@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 09:10:07 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-180-26-144.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:11:07 doomlord 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quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:08:27 seangrov` [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:08:52 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 10:08:52 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:12:50 Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5B2B0118.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:15:19 JPeterson [~JPeterson@s213-103-210-215.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 10:20:35 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-196-60-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 10:27:22 CADD [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has joined #lisp 10:27:37 -!- CADD is now known as Guest31302 10:28:06 -!- Guest31302 [~CADD@12.227.104.109] has quit [Client Quit] 10:29:15 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-131-74.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:35:24 if someone needs more ways: (lognot (ash -1 64)) 10:35:50 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 10:43:50 -!- protist [~protist@46.172.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 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0.4.1] 12:48:28 -!- pnpuff [~ln@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has quit [] 12:51:24 -!- ndrei [~avo@mtl93-2-82-66-118-59.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:53:46 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 12:54:45 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 12:55:25 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-91-232.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:55:42 ehu` [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 12:56:44 agumonkey [~agu@117.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 12:57:45 nialo [~nialo@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:25 i need fewer ways 13:04:45 Xach: then 18446744073709551615 is the best one 13:07:02 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 13:07:13 hi 13:07:26 hello 13:12:15 stardiviner [~quassel@218.74.181.124] has joined #lisp 13:15:35 nilsi [~nilsi@124.79.136.212] has joined #lisp 13:18:24 antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-91-232.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 13:19:02 -!- maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 13:19:26 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-131-74.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:20:08 syrinx [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 13:28:25 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 13:31:42 xificurC [~user@adsl-dyn121.78-99-138.t-com.sk] has joined #lisp 13:32:21 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-91-232.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:33:39 -!- xificurC [~user@adsl-dyn121.78-99-138.t-com.sk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:36:06 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:36:12 sdemarre [~serge@50.124-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 13:37:40 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 13:42:12 -!- Aramur [~Aramur@102.Red-79-154-74.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Aramur] 13:43:18 -!- sdemarre [~serge@50.124-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:44:58 -!- ryankarason is now known as rk[pyOhio] 13:49:35 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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(lambda, begin, define, set!, if) 15:17:19 ykm [~ykm@38.snat-111-91-51.hns.net.in] has joined #lisp 15:19:43 theseb: that's not common lisp forms 15:21:35 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-137-145.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:19 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.68.98] has joined #lisp 15:22:19 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.68.98] has quit [Changing host] 15:22:19 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:24:37 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-131-74.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:28:53 theseb, http://ep.yimg.com/ty/cdn/paulgraham/jmc.lisp 15:33:28 Aramur [~Aramur@102.Red-79-154-74.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:25 dcguru [~chatzilla@66.129.60.130] has joined #lisp 15:45:38 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-26-137-145.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 15:48:52 -!- ykm [~ykm@38.snat-111-91-51.hns.net.in] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:49:36 ykm [~ykm@38.snat-111-91-51.hns.net.in] has joined #lisp 15:50:07 -!- ignas 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Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@46.78.150.98] has joined #lisp 17:44:50 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5B2B0118.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:50:10 Ragnaroek_ [~chatzilla@46.78.150.98] has joined #lisp 17:50:51 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:51:53 -!- coreytrevor [~ma@95.211.140.99] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:54:42 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-163-191.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:56:00 Viaken2 [~Viaken@184.90.154.164] has joined #lisp 17:58:39 josemanuel [~josemanue@94.202.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:00:21 -!- sykopomp` is now known as sykopomp 18:00:49 -!- dim [~dim@91.121.37.122] has left #lisp 18:00:49 dim [~dim@91.121.37.122] has joined #lisp 18:05:38 protist [~protist@55.172.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 18:07:14 -!- sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:07:55 rszeno: a lot of things can be defined in terms of lambda, because of lambda calculus. But it does not mean that it is the best approach 18:08:27 -!- dsevilla [~user@174.Red-83-54-235.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:09:03 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-251-178.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:10 rszeno: I meant theseb, sorry 18:09:15 -!- Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-251-178.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:09:28 best approach for what? i think depend of what you want to do, :) 18:09:31 petrounias [~petrounia@ppp-2-85-43-174.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 18:09:32 Bike_ [~Glossina@67-5-251-178.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:18 rszeno: for a lisp implementation. And yes, it depends on what you want (performance, readability, etc.) 18:10:20 implementing things in terms of lambda calculus is the best way to not do anything 18:10:48 while pretending something is being done 18:11:53 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-36-8.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:11:56 true, is a formalism, can help on the theoretical side 18:13:23 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 18:14:11 -!- Aramur [~Aramur@102.Red-79-154-74.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Aramur] 18:15:11 Aramur [~arare@102.Red-79-154-74.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:26 -!- protist [~protist@55.172.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:17:29 stassats: it is useful if you don't have another way of defining things. Making an implementation that runs on top of the C preprocessor, for instance. 18:18:06 things which run on top of the C preprocessor are extremely useful, yes 18:18:37 stassats: haha, ok, forget what I said 18:21:16 namtsui [~user@76.102.34.148] has joined #lisp 18:24:10 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-163-191.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:28:46 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:53 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2-dev] 18:33:42 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:34:31 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-163-191.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:36:15 klltkr [~klltkr@unaffiliated/klltkr] has joined #lisp 18:45:30 macdice [~user@46-65-10-191.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:52:53 Longlius [~Longlius@68.170.238.146] has joined #lisp 18:52:54 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:56:50 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:59:44 -!- ykm [~ykm@38.snat-111-91-51.hns.net.in] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:01:31 -!- oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-177-70.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:02:02 oleo [~oleo@xdsl-78-35-164-53.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:03:17 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 19:08:19 -!- goodmanio [k3VB6u4d@gateway/shell/ircrelay.com/x-htpykdxlddfjrdts] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:11:22 -!- macdice [~user@46-65-10-191.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: mlah] 19:11:39 k3VB6u4d [k3VB6u4d@gateway/shell/ircrelay.com/x-azbpkkvzdmnmlmbx] has joined #lisp 19:15:26 ikki [~ikki@201.164.188.51] has joined #lisp 19:20:55 -!- Aramur [~arare@102.Red-79-154-74.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Aramur] 19:22:22 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.164.188.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:22:47 -!- capisce_ [~srodal@ti0063a380-0987.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:25:11 jaccarmac [3fc86515@gateway/web/freenode/ip.63.200.101.21] has joined #lisp 19:25:16 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-131-74.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:28:40 -!- gleag [~gleag@71.175.broadband2.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:33:04 gleag [~gleag@71.175.broadband2.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 19:37:04 ikki [~ikki@201.164.188.51] has joined #lisp 19:46:48 drmeister [~drmeister@pool-71-185-168-200.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:55 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04dcfd.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:53 -!- sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 269 seconds] 19:48:54 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 19:50:27 nialo [~nialo@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:34 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:56:33 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 20:00:15 -!- Shinmera_ [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:01:41 -!- Shinmera [~linus@xdsl-188-155-176-171.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:04:54 -!- Ragnaroek_ [~chatzilla@46.78.150.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:07:53 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@46.78.150.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:08:01 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04dcfd.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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ZZZzzz] 20:43:15 ndrei [~avo@mtl93-2-82-66-118-59.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:28 -!- cscorp [~csorp@c-98-230-174-67.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: cscorp] 20:52:19 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04dcfd.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:06 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04dcfd.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:02:10 pnpuff [~ln@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 21:02:46 -!- pnpuff [~ln@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 21:04:22 -!- sdemarre [~serge@50.124-64-87.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:06:16 jsn [~user@c-50-156-35-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:45 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04dcfd.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:26 cscorp [~csorp@c-98-230-174-67.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:25 Aramur [~arare@102.Red-79-154-74.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:19 -!- maxter [~maxter@gaffeless.chaperon.volia.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:32:20 -!- sabra [~sabra@67.174.222.215] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:32:47 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 21:34:29 kilophoton [~kilo@ip68-226-57-206.om.om.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:47 -!- cscorp [~csorp@c-98-230-174-67.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: cscorp] 21:36:06 pnpuff_biber [~ln@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has joined #lisp 21:36:55 -!- pnpuff_biber [~ln@unaffiliated/pnpuff] has left #lisp 21:39:44 -!- bitonic` [~user@ppp-243-184.27-151.libero.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:40:19 bitonic` [~user@ppp-243-184.27-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 21:43:05 arare [~Aramur@153.68.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 21:43:33 -!- jsn [~user@c-50-156-35-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 21:43:35 Does anyone besides me have problems with (ql:quickload :lquery)? It says that "buildnode-20130615-git/src/xhtml1-transitional.dtd" contains illegal character #\ at position 19." 21:43:53 jsn [~user@c-50-156-35-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:42 agr [~agr@189.38.143.46] has joined #lisp 21:46:04 gleag: which implementation? 21:46:11 gleag: it's loading normally on SBCL, here 21:46:26 SBCL and CCL, both at x86/Win32 21:46:41 bitonic`` [~user@ppp-243-184.27-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 21:47:24 Ooops, I'm blind. 21:47:25 -!- agr [~agr@189.38.143.46] has quit [Client Quit] 21:47:43 That was a parsing error in PURI. 21:47:49 -!- bitonic` [~user@ppp-243-184.27-151.libero.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:48:07 Anyone know if it is possible to implement eq and atom operators with lambda and how? 21:48:22 But it does raise the question of why it fails at a path including spaces. 21:48:33 theseb: why do you want to do that? 21:48:54 theseb: the answer to your question is yes, it is possible to implement them with lambda. 21:49:15 theseb: the proof is that lambda calculus is Turing complete, therefore you can implement any program in it. 21:49:16 gleag: is it in a string or is it a lone character? 21:49:18 Denommus: http://norvig.com/lispy.html <-- Norvig claims here that quote, if, set!, define, begin and lambda are enough to implement lisp 21:49:26 pjb: yikes..you are right 21:49:54 pjb: i can't see how 21:49:54 theseb: the more interesting questions is whether it's easier to implement eq and atom in lambda calculus, or in Turing machines? 21:50:36 theseb: it's not trivial or easy. Simply possible 21:50:40 Denommus: apparently it's the first space in the path, between "Documents" and "and". 21:50:45 It is trivial and easy. 21:51:19 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@94.202.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 21:51:20 The thing is that lambda calculus is "untyped": you don't have any introspection functions, only functions and the only thing you can do with the is calling them. 21:51:51 Once I detemporize (as in, install Linux@AMD64) my temporary machine, it will be fine, but I'm puzzled by the sensitivity to spaces. 21:51:54 But you can trivially and easily build a layer above that, where you have types of objects with type tags, so you can easily test for atoms. 21:52:28 gleag: hm. I guess it's an issue with how Windows handles pathnames 21:52:36 You can also trivially and easily build a layer of addresses for those objects, and test if two objects are "stored" in the same address, therefore eq. 21:52:45 gleag: have you tried to use "\" And it's as easy to write that in lambda calculus as it in is in lisp, which cannot be said of Turing Machines 21:53:10 Denommus: are you sure about it? Something like this shouldn't be necessary in the first place. 21:53:32 gleag: no, I don't understand that much about Windows 21:53:40 weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:13 gleag: but it is probably an issue with how Windows handles pathnames, and SBCL not being able to handle that properly 21:54:18 Denommus: the OS has nothing to do with this. If PURI can't parse a path with a space in it, then it shouldn't be handed one in the first place. 21:54:58 As in, the spaces can be replaced by %20, as can any other characters allowed in path names but invalid in URI paths. 21:54:59 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:55:03 gleag: what is the code that is going wrong, exactly? 21:55:12 Denommus: ok 21:55:19 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-180-237.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:24 The "code" was (ql:quickload :lquery) :D 21:55:44 gleag: I mean, when it went wrong, it entered a condition, right? 21:56:03 gleag: what is the line of code that broke the loading, exactly? 21:58:34 Denommus: I'll switch to Slime and diagnose it from there. 21:58:56 -!- bitonic`` [~user@ppp-243-184.27-151.libero.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:59:03 theseb: do you know how to write cons,car,cdr in lambda calculus? 21:59:07 let me knwo 21:59:35 bitonic`` [~user@ppp-243-184.27-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 22:03:06 pjb: in SICP I've seen where they do those in lambda 22:03:11 sohail [~Adium@69-165-138-8.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 22:03:12 -!- sohail [~Adium@69-165-138-8.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Changing host] 22:03:12 sohail [~Adium@unaffiliated/sohail] has joined #lisp 22:03:17 pjb: those are covered....it is eq and atom i have no idea on 22:03:27 agr [~agr@189.38.143.46] has joined #lisp 22:03:33 Do you know Church numerals? 22:04:05 pjb: yes...i've implemented my own lambda cal 22:04:15 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-131-74.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:04:26 pjb: i'm looking for the minimal lisp in which I can implement the rest of "practical" lisp 22:04:35 pjb: i know lambda cal is enough but i mean.... 22:04:52 pjb: i want minimal in which i can "sanely" implement rest of a practical lisp i guess 22:04:59 -!- bitonic`` [~user@ppp-243-184.27-151.libero.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:05:44 theseb: therefore you can write (cons 0 42) instead of 42 and you can write (cons 1 (cons 1 2)) instead of (cons 1 2), and therefore you can write (atom x) = (zerop (car x)) 22:07:07 pjb: hmmmm...ok.....i think I see.....maybe i should pursue that and not give up on this...there might be hope 22:07:17 theseb: therefore you can write an a-list ((0 . a) (1 . b) (2 . c)  (65536 . z)) with the letters being of the form (type . value), and you can write (eq addr1 addr2) == (= addr1 addr2). 22:07:43 -!- ehu_ [~ehu@31.138.173.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:08:30 tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has joined #lisp 22:08:36 You'd define (car2 addr) = (if (= 1 (car (cdr (assoc addr meme)))) (car (cdr (cdr (assoc addr meme)))) (error)) of course. 22:08:43 pjb: wow. 22:09:16 <|3b|> theseb: are you sure that wasn't a list of forms that need special evaluation rules, as opposed to an exhaustive list of primitives of any sort? 22:09:45 |3b|: no i am not..Norvig didn't really define "special forms"...I just assumed that meant you could define all in them 22:10:02 |3b|: that was implied to me when he quoted lisp as being the "Maxwell's Equations of software" 22:10:06 i could be wrong 22:10:10 -!- gleag [~gleag@71.175.broadband2.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:10:16 <|3b|> "A list such as (set! x y) with a special keyword in the first position is called a special form in Scheme; the beauty of the language is that we only need six special forms," 22:11:10 |3b|: yup.....that sentence is the one whose definition needs to be confirmed 22:11:44 a special form is just something special-cased by the evaluator. hopefully you've written an evaluator by now. 22:12:15 Bike: nope 22:12:22 Bike: just a lambda cal implementation 22:12:29 ok, well, write an evaluator then. 22:12:36 Bike: say..thanks for y combinator help the other day 22:12:39 <|3b|> as pjb mentioned, you /could/ implement everything including numbers with just lambda, but that would be pretty silly if you want a 'practical' lisp 22:12:46 |3b|: i think you nailed it 22:13:00 and there's not too much point in going for "minimal". 22:13:02 lambda without an evaluator? 22:13:08 <|3b|> you could write all your logic with just NAND too 22:13:22 |3b|: i think those 6 are the only ones that have weird evaluations.....Norvig intends you to implement the next zillion operators by hand and be happy they are all "typical" 22:13:26 sirdancealot [~sirdancea@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 22:13:27 or subtract and branch if negative. 22:13:41 rszeno: oh..well if you count my lambda cal eval then yes I've done an eval...just not a lisp eval 22:13:41 so many "minimal" possibilities! 22:13:50 <|3b|> theseb: right, everything else is just a function call 22:13:57 |3b|: it is not silly, because it's so easy to reach a level where the system you'd get could be called a lisp. 22:14:15 Compared to Turing machines or usual processors. 22:14:16 |3b|: thanks.....this is the first time this has been cleared up 22:14:24 <|3b|> pjb: how many lisp implementations do you use implemented that way? 22:14:27 |3b|: now i get it...thanks a million.. 22:14:40 |3b|: this is irrelevant. 22:14:47 We're not here to win popularity contests. 22:14:51 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:14:53 Bike: i got that "lisp enlightenment" about 2 weeks ago so i'm still in that "honeymoon" period :) 22:14:59 |3b|: I don't think this is a matter of "why", but "why not" 22:15:25 theseb: try to get to the stage where you're comfortable with your "partner" without putting them on a creepy pedestal, to stretch the metaphor 22:15:40 Bike: lol 22:16:37 |3b|: and yes, you could as well write all your logic with NAND. Perhaps the point in common with NAND and lambda calculus, compared to turing machines, is that you can easily build abstractions and soon enough you're not working with NAND gates or lambda calculus anymore, but it's harder to build abstractions with Turing machines. 22:17:26 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:18:20 <|3b|> right, you aren't working with lambda calculus, you are just working with an unusably slow lisp that uses ram proportional to the size of each number you use 22:18:34 <|3b|> which sounds quite 'practical' 22:18:59 -!- agr [~agr@189.38.143.46] has quit [Quit: agr] 22:21:04 Soon enough, we'll have so much memory, we won't have to garbage collect it anymore. 22:21:10 I don't think this is about practicity, but that's me :P 22:21:22 Do the NSA or Google garbage collect the data it collects about us? Nope. 22:21:51 will never be enough, programs will grow, was proved before, :) 22:22:21 Instead of spending time=money erasing old files to make free space, it's cheaper to buy a new 2 TB HD. 22:22:27 rszeno: 8 GB is pretty enough for me 22:22:53 40 years ago 256 bytes was enough, :) 22:23:03 4 TB HD costs less than one day programmer work. 22:23:41 Think about that next time somebody asks about a tree shaker. 22:23:42 rszeno: 40 years ago we didn't have Deus Ex: Human Revolution :P 22:26:13 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:27:21 jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has joined #lisp 22:28:22 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-180-26-144.range86-180.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:30:38 nialo [~nialo@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:55 -!- jerryzhou [~jerryzhou@58.245.253.218] has quit [Client Quit] 22:32:01 Ralt [~Ralt@89-92-204-200.hfc.dyn.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 22:32:09 <|3b|> pjb: 4tb HD that fit in a phone are a bit more expensive, as is 4tb of data sent through a phone 22:34:35 <|3b|> also not everyone lives somewhere where programmers get paid more than 4TB/day 22:34:54 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04dcfd.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. ZZZzzz] 22:36:11 Karl_dscc [~localhost@p5B2B0118.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:36:52 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: brb?] 22:37:22 dsevilla [~user@77.211.153.182] has joined #lisp 22:37:55 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:38:48 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 22:39:10 |3b|: that's true, but again, 90% of the programmers do live where they're paid more than 4TB/day. 22:39:19 Or else, why would there be so many H1B? 22:40:20  as a definition of "normal" :-) 22:41:04 <|3b|> well, if you want to limit your market to the small % of people who are programmers living somewhere that pays well... 22:41:46 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04dcfd.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 22:43:05 -!- corni [~corni@drupal.org/user/136353/view] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:44:13 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:45:02 -!- ndrei [~avo@mtl93-2-82-66-118-59.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:45:51 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.79.90] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:48:36 -!- _d3f [~gnu@94.242.252.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:49:44 -!- ehu` [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:51:33 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04dcfd.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: My MacBook Pro has gone to sleep. 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