00:00:14 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:00:14 stassats`, http://paste.lisp.org/display/137986 00:01:18 that's boring 00:02:01 oh, sorry, i didn't realize "interesting" was a requirement for bad implementations of adjoin 00:02:02 michaeljmcd [~michael@ip70-178-95-137.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:16 -!- romcgb [romcgb@ip-83-101-43-154.customer.schedom-europe.net] has quit [] 00:04:17 -!- eXhumd [~papercut@141.0.35.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:05:58 pjb: Really? I get strange looks from lots of people whenever they see it. 00:08:27 zRecursive [~czsq888@118.112.156.180] has joined #lisp 00:08:30 (remove-duplicates (cons 'x '(1 2 3 4)) :test (let ((one (list t))) (lambda (x y) (and (eq x y) (pop one))))) 00:08:36 i like that one 00:09:37 s/(list t)/'(t)/ 00:10:34 stassats`: don't think that preserves the order. 00:10:51 it does 00:11:27 right, nice. 00:11:45 if only there was also COUNT parameter 00:12:33 stassats`, i don't think CLHS guarantees the order in which things are compared 00:12:53 s/CLHS/the spec/ 00:15:01 -!- devoutful06 [~devoutful@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:15:09 arrsim [~user@mail.fitness2live.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:15:34 -!- michaeljmcd [~michael@ip70-178-95-137.ks.ks.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:16:39 Quadrescence: there's no other sensible way to ensure the specified result 00:16:50 -!- krishnak [~krishnak@63.251.54.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:16:56 i.e. that the first element is discarded and that the order is unchanged 00:20:54 what does that have to do with the fact that the first element might not be the first possible duplicate found? 00:21:06 stassats`, it also fails with (cons 'x '(1 1 2 3)) 00:21:34 just add a comparison with 'x 00:21:47 mericarp71 [~mericarp7@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:56 that still doesn't solve the order issue 00:22:47 surely there's a RESTful web service for this 00:22:48 michaeljmcd [~michael@ip70-178-95-137.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:15 Quadrescence: the first one is guaranteed to be discarded 00:23:31 how about serialising the list as json and attempting to insert it in mongodb? 00:23:48 aspect: i was thinking more about Oracle 00:24:53 stassats`, the first what? Are you saying REMOVE-DUPLICATES is guaranteed to compare the first element of the sequence (if there is one) with the second element of the sequence? Does the spec say it can't start comparing the second element with the rest of the sequence first if it so chooses? 00:29:02 yes i am saying that 00:29:41 What guarantees that? 00:29:51 who! i do! 00:30:06 Does the spec guatantee it? 00:30:11 -!- jeremyheiler [~jeremyhei@38.98.105.130] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:30:18 it implies it 00:31:33 i don't press you into using the pasted functio 00:31:48 stassats`, It just says the elements are compared pairwise, and you have the option to choose which element gets discarded. 00:31:56 -!- v0yager [~v0yager@c-67-167-165-38.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:32:07 I don't see how that implies "the order in which the elements are compared is fixed" 00:32:47 normanrichards [~normanric@216-80-70-2.c3-0.alc-ubr4.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:36:37 For example, I could see the following optimization to make it O(n*log n) for some kinds of sequences: sort the list (n log n), run through it pairwise collecting any elements that match test, run through the original sequence with the list of elements to be deleted, or something along those lines 00:37:39 -!- agumonkey [~agu@156.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:38:15 Quadrescence: that depends on the test. Might as well use a hash function then. 00:40:50 pkhuong, what do you mean it depends on the test? it only seems to depend on whatever order could be imposed (which might be hash-ordered) 00:42:07 REMOVE-DUPLICATES links to "Section 3.6 (Traversal Rules and Side Effects)", which talks about "object-traversing", which, which is defined as "object-traversing adj. operating in succession on components of an object." 00:42:13 which implies from left to right 00:42:18 clhs 3.6 00:42:18 Traversal Rules and Side Effects: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/03_f.htm 00:42:23 clhs glossary/object-traversing 00:42:23 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_o.htm#object-traversing 00:42:32 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:42:39 -!- pierre1 [~pierre1@179.218.154.208] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:44:19 Quadrescence: you can't perform the sorting step without knowing that the equality test and the order predicate are compatible. If you can dispatch on the equality test, you might as well go for a hash set. 00:45:49 stassats`, i think the object traversing probably refers to the actual deletion, especially when you look at the examples in the glossary, which don't do this cross-comparison stuff 00:46:19 pkhuong, yes i agree 00:47:20 jeremyheiler [~jeremyhei@pool-173-68-5-126.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:32 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:49:04 stassats`, SORT links to it too, but I'd be hard-pressed if the standard requires something like bubble sort. 00:52:26 ldionmarcil [~maden@dsl-216-221-59-161.mtl.aei.ca] has joined #lisp 00:52:37 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@dsl-216-221-59-161.mtl.aei.ca] has quit [Changing host] 00:52:37 ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #lisp 00:53:46 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106602ad08e475a.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:55:21 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-162.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Quit: jangle] 00:56:44 -!- krishnak` [~krishnak@50.11.87.144] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:56:58 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@216-80-70-2.c3-0.alc-ubr4.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:57:30 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:59:07 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 00:59:32 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:02:17 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:04:46 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has commenced electric sheep tracking protocol.] 01:04:57 drmeister [~drmeister@184.71.117.234] has joined #lisp 01:05:31 normanrichards [~normanric@216-80-70-2.c3-0.alc-ubr4.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 01:05:57 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 01:06:35 wuyun [~wuyun@61.173.89.178] has joined #lisp 01:06:39 -!- breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 01:12:07 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Quit: Life is too short] 01:12:29 Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:48 fentontravers [7c791b00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.121.27.0] has joined #lisp 01:14:58 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 01:18:39 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:26:08 hwiersma [~hwiersma@d50-92-237-119.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 01:27:39 -!- fentontravers [7c791b00@gateway/web/freenode/ip.124.121.27.0] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:28:27 -!- archonix [~unknown@78.90.30.16] has quit [Quit: Read error: Connection reset by beer] 01:28:27 -!- harish [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:34:08 Bike_ [~Glossina@75-175-71-68.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:39 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:36:19 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-94-86.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:37:03 paul0 [~paul0@177.132.174.55] has joined #lisp 01:39:44 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@216-80-70-2.c3-0.alc-ubr4.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:46:39 -!- theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:46:43 -!- ASau [~user@p5797E401.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:47:43 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 01:49:39 ASau [~user@p5797E401.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 01:51:57 normanrichards [~normanric@216-80-70-2.c3-0.alc-ubr4.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 01:55:47 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-77-150.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:56:02 i'm trying to get the uiop package...but... when i try to upgrade asdf with quicklisp, hoping to find uiop inside the asdf code...no luck. I've got SBCL and as part of the distribution (arch) package it includes asdf...though not sure the version of asdf...any pointers? 01:57:25 just quickload uiop? 01:57:27 doomlord [~doomlod@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 01:57:29 DalekBaldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:57:41 harish [~harish@119.234.175.17] has joined #lisp 01:58:20 ok lemme try that... 01:58:44 Bike_ [~Glossina@75-175-71-68.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:58:46 Bike: :) thx 01:58:57 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-175-71-68.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:59:02 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 02:00:09 estebistec [~estebiste@72.133.228.205] has joined #lisp 02:09:44 -!- harish [~harish@119.234.175.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:11:27 galactic_pretty_ [~aaa@221.166.128.145] has joined #lisp 02:12:49 -!- fenton [~fenton@ppp-124-121-27-0.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:14:13 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@216-80-70-2.c3-0.alc-ubr4.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 02:19:43 -!- walter [~walter@97-88-38-33.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:19:53 -!- NiceOneBrah [~niceonebr@173.247.206.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:21:55 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@192-0-129-82.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: xaxisx] 02:25:26 breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:31:16 time to set up all my lisp stuff on my new machine! 02:31:31 my least favorite thing to do! 02:32:03 there's nothing like setting up a new computer without all the cruft and cargo-cult config files that cluttered up the old one 02:32:33 I just forget the order I should do everything in 02:33:21 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-aerzziuexrsmvatt] has joined #lisp 02:33:35 quicklisp first, then slime? 02:34:40 yeah, using slime helper 02:38:33 -!- arrsim [~user@mail.fitness2live.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:38:55 I used to dread new CL setups. Now I mostly dread elisp setups. 02:39:20 elisp is way worse, esp. across OSs 02:39:20 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for is way worse, esp. across OSs. 02:39:33 :) 02:40:25 I'm sure I'll run into plenty of snags 02:42:10 when I open up a piece of hardware or something in my car to mess around with stuff I take pictures of every step, because otherwise some screw falls out of somewhere and you have no idea where it came from and you stay awake every night wondering if it's going to come back and bite you 02:42:33 I'm not yet smart enough to apply that kind of technique to software installation 02:47:55 well you can use a vcs to do help you track the steps? 02:48:33 normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-147-103-098.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 02:49:09 -!- seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:49:16 DalekBaldwin: sometimes i work on VMs, and I like to use snapshots a lot, at least early on. 02:51:03 well, there are other things higher up on my to-learn list 02:51:55 this is part of the reason I'm quitting my programming job, it's getting in the way of becoming a better programmer 02:52:19 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 02:52:29 I was going to quit today but my boss wasn't in 02:52:48 I will accept your resignation and relay it to him. No need to come in tomorrow. 02:54:46 great, because I should use my current burst of enthusiasm to stay up all night and get everything set up for maximum productivity before I become complacent and unwilling to break anything 03:00:55 -!- p_nathan [~vlion@174-21-140-82.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:01:27 Fade [fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 03:01:46 -!- michaeljmcd [~michael@ip70-178-95-137.ks.ks.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:02:27 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.185.123] has joined #lisp 03:02:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.47.185.123] has quit [Changing host] 03:02:28 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 03:03:05 -!- Triclops256|away is now known as Triclops256 03:07:54 michaeljmcd [~michael@ip70-178-95-137.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:08:09 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:09:29 mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 03:09:55 -!- mcspiff [~user@bas16-ottawa23-1242330134.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:11:11 mcspiff [~user@bas16-ottawa23-1242330134.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:12:38 -!- jeremyheiler [~jeremyhei@pool-173-68-5-126.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 03:14:48 -!- galactic_pretty_ [~aaa@221.166.128.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:15:34 seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has joined #lisp 03:18:54 jeremyheiler [~jeremyhei@pool-173-68-5-126.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:02 -!- seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:20:33 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:20:34 -!- mcspiff [~user@bas16-ottawa23-1242330134.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:22:41 -!- Watcher7 [~w@silly.tabby.cat] has left #lisp 03:22:46 mcspiff [~user@bas16-ottawa23-1242330134.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:23:59 nymo [~user@c-76-17-216-101.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:25 DalekBaldwin: imle all nighthers are counter productive to the medium term goals 03:24:33 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:24:48 dlowe: finally got a chance to test your alphabet maker code... works as expected although still feels a little bit like magic 03:24:50 azathoth99 [~g@cpe-75-83-12-120.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:27:42 youlysse` [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:28:31 fisxoj [~fisxoj@c-24-12-190-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:29:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:30:41 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 03:30:46 -!- ckoch786__ [~quassel@cpe-98-27-140-191.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:31:07 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:31:26 redSnow [~Thunderbi@113.96.155.176] has joined #lisp 03:31:32 p_nathan [~vlion@174-21-140-82.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:32:25 I'm working on my first project using the MOP, and I find myself wanting to add a slot to classes declared with my metaclass. Is there a good way to do that? 03:32:27 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.54.9] has joined #lisp 03:32:28 -!- mcspiff [~user@bas16-ottawa23-1242330134.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:33:02 don't you just want to inherit it? 03:33:25 pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.174.33.130] has joined #lisp 03:33:25 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@122.174.33.130] has quit [Changing host] 03:33:25 pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has joined #lisp 03:33:26 svs_ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has joined #lisp 03:35:26 Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has joined #lisp 03:36:41 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@d50-92-237-119.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:38:39 -!- Triclops256 is now known as Triclops256|away 03:39:18 -!- Triclops256|away is now known as Triclops256 03:39:24 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:40:23 -!- michaeljmcd [~michael@ip70-178-95-137.ks.ks.cox.net] has quit [Ping 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[~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:03:30 -!- EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:04:14 EvW [~Thunderbi@a82-92-190-215.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 06:10:07 DalekBaldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 06:12:37 chord [322f5788@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.47.87.136] has joined #lisp 06:12:45 -!- chord [322f5788@gateway/web/freenode/ip.50.47.87.136] has left #lisp 06:14:39 Joreji [~thomas@191-184.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 06:15:36 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:17:26 banjara1 [~Adium@106.51.171.205] has joined #lisp 06:18:01 -!- paul0 [~paul0@177.132.174.55] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:18:04 agumonkey [~agu@156.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 06:21:22 -!- DalekBaldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:23:29 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 06:23:34 DalekBaldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 06:24:31 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 06:27:32 -!- banjara1 [~Adium@106.51.171.205] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:32:55 -!- Joreji [~thomas@191-184.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:34:34 Joreji [~thomas@89.204.135.130] has joined #lisp 06:34:52 -!- estebistec [~estebiste@72.133.228.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:35:47 lemme check this browse-url i found 06:37:36 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:37:55 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:38:21 it does the browse-url-at-point and -at-mouse 06:38:58 but i guess you'll have to add your own highlite/clickable-text bind 06:40:56 capisce [~srodal@ti0063a380-1257.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 06:44:00 Joreji_ [~thomas@191-184.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 06:44:03 jxriddle [~jxriddle@74-132-175-208.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 06:44:06 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.54.9] has joined #lisp 06:44:33 -!- Joreji [~thomas@89.204.135.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:47:18 -!- capisce [~srodal@ti0063a380-1257.bb.online.no] has quit [Changing host] 06:47:18 capisce [~srodal@oftn/member/capisce] has joined #lisp 06:47:31 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 06:48:42 -!- Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-1279267718.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:49:02 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 06:51:40 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@94.137.54.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:51:51 -!- DalekBaldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:53:42 reading http://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/elisp/Clickable-Text.html 06:54:20 gah, apparently i'd need to get Org and use the hyperlink type from there 06:54:20 -!- r0rschach [~r0rschach@cpe-66-108-114-156.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:54:24 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-txogjbjlvhvpgpfx] has joined #lisp 06:55:45 DalekBaldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has joined #lisp 06:57:24 -!- adnap [~adnap@cpe-70-112-164-154.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:57:58 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@191-184.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:01:56 bondar [~rukugu@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 07:02:07 -!- bondar [~rukugu@197.156.132.62] has quit [Excess Flood] 07:02:17 spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 07:02:19 bondar [~rukugu@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 07:02:21 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 07:02:23 -!- bondar [~rukugu@197.156.132.62] has quit [Excess Flood] 07:02:26 -!- DalekBaldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:02:34 bondar 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[~rukugu@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 07:08:44 -!- bondar [~rukugu@197.156.132.62] has quit [Excess Flood] 07:08:56 bondar [~rukugu@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 07:08:56 -!- bondar [~rukugu@197.156.132.62] has quit [Client Quit] 07:09:18 Joreji [~thomas@191-184.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 07:09:48 bondar [~rukugu@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 07:09:48 -!- bondar [~rukugu@197.156.132.62] has quit [Client Quit] 07:10:04 hi 07:10:42 -!- robgssp [~user@cpe-24-93-28-218.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:11:57 can't find emacs text property for underlining 07:12:05 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-226-213.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:12:13 italic and bold are in examples 07:13:38 oh, it's :underline t, cool 07:14:59 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@184.71.117.234] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:15:27 drmeister [~drmeister@184.71.117.234] has joined #lisp 07:16:01 okay, so (make-text-button point-begin point-end :underline t) makes a clickable link 07:16:28 and (browse-url-at-point) opens browser 07:17:29 now just gotta regexp the the ranges of urls in the visible part of the buffer and assign b-u-a-t to the buttons 07:17:56 sid_cypher: cool story, bro; except nobody cares. 07:18:11 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@118.112.156.180] has left #lisp 07:20:19 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@184.71.117.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:20:54 jdz: thanks for your support! hajovonta posted an interesting question, and the channel was sleepy 07:21:10 :) 07:21:22 when? 07:21:30 it was yesterday 07:22:17 hajovonta: lol sorry i misread/mistyped. i meant not your question, but ahungry with clickable urls in slime 07:22:46 sid_cypher: #emacs is ---> that way 07:23:31 jdz: oh, sorry 07:23:34 sid_cypher: I guess jdz is missing the context in this case. Anyway, the right approach would be to look into SLIME's presentations and creating them from SWANK 07:23:55 -!- loke_erc [~user@42.61.218.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:24:07 (and to be more On-Topic - I've been tempted for some time to try making SWANK-based "GUIs" in Emacs :)) 07:24:24 clickable links in emacs? i thought it was meant to be a keyboard-only editor. 07:25:05 prip [~foo@95.233.14.8] has joined #lisp 07:25:41 p_l: i know little about slime internals - is swank a server, or a protocol, or both? if yes, then which? 07:26:00 swank is the CL side of SLIME + the protocol it speaks 07:26:10 (it had been also adapted for few other languages) 07:27:00 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-149-137.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:27:08 p_l: i once did a node.js repl with slime, and it had js-swank, yeah 07:27:17 -!- ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:28:35 the reason i ask is that i don't quite get how a swank would serve a gui or url-hilites 07:29:10 -!- wuyun [~wuyun@61.173.89.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:29:16 protocol extention with support on slime/emacs side? 07:29:40 sid_cypher: SLIME, on the emacs side, has the concept of presentations (similar to CLIM's/DynamicWindows' ones), which is how you can have those clickable "objects" on the REPL (like copy-paste an object from a result somewhere else etc.) 07:30:03 what you'd need to do is to instruct SLIME to build apropriate presentation, I guess 07:33:24 p_l: oh okay. does slime-inspect use those presentation to make deletion links? 07:33:57 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:34:21 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 07:34:48 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:35:20 codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has joined #lisp 07:35:37 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@d50-92-237-119.bchsia.telus.net] has 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[Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:04:11 arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-oyqfcrkmbbraztzt] has joined #lisp 08:04:38 -!- s_c [839f0aaf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.131.159.10.175] has left #lisp 08:05:05 jewel [~jewel@105-237-9-188.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:05:32 przl [~przlrkt@p5B2980FD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:05:35 -!- loke [~loke@203.127.16.194] has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:06:03 loke [~loke@203.127.16.194] has joined #lisp 08:06:20 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B2980FD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:08:29 przl [~przlrkt@p5B2980FD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:09:29 brandwe [~brandwe@c-67-160-117-15.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:10:22 join #gaygeeks 08:10:26 sid_cypher: I don't think so 08:11:32 -!- loke_ [~loke_@42.61.218.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:11:49 bitonic [~user@ppp-93-137.27-151.libero.it] has joined #lisp 08:11:52 loke_ [~loke_@42.61.218.195] has joined #lisp 08:11:54 i guess we'd have to read slime.el or smth to find out for sure 08:14:05 -!- brandwe [~brandwe@c-67-160-117-15.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 08:19:19 pierpa [~user@host204-228-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 08:22:28 segv- [~mb@95-91-241-41-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:25:17 mskou72 [~mskou72@91.144.254.250] has joined #lisp 08:27:28 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 08:29:55 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-237-9-188.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:30:42 rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-247-189.uio.no] has joined #lisp 08:33:25 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-aerzziuexrsmvatt] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:33:30 turbopape [~turbopape@41.230.44.101] has joined #lisp 08:36:36 schoppenhauer [~quassel@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 08:39:52 Thra11 [~Thra11@87.113.175.245] has joined #lisp 08:45:21 ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has joined #lisp 08:45:54 -!- turbopape 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240 seconds] 11:07:44 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.9.72] has joined #lisp 11:07:44 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.9.72] has quit [Changing host] 11:07:44 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:08:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 11:08:29 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.9.72] has joined #lisp 11:08:29 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.9.72] has quit [Changing host] 11:08:29 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:08:55 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-77-150.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:09:21 -!- codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:10:44 doomlord [~doomlod@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:12:09 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 11:14:35 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:14:47 what is your opinion on the book "Let over Lambda" ? 11:16:47 -!- ASau [~user@p5797E401.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Excess Flood] 11:18:46 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B2980FD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:22:41 hajovonta: did you see the reviews on Amazon? 11:26:54 minion: ctx 11:26:55 Sorry, I couldn't find anything in the database for ``ctx''. 11:26:55 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 11:27:01 -!- wuyun [~wuyun@199.68.198.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:28:37 ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:29:38 samebchase: not yet. why? 11:30:44 There are about six reviews for the book. 11:31:16 AeroNotix [~aero@nat/hp/x-bndvfqowvdycjxzc] has joined #lisp 11:32:08 shadow_prince [~sp@46.211.126.75] has joined #lisp 11:34:50 as i look at them now, i remember i have read them already. 11:35:13 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:35:35 -!- redSnow [~Thunderbi@113.96.155.176] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:35:46 redSnow [~Thunderbi@113.96.155.176] has joined #lisp 11:36:05 *NickLevine* dares to stick his neck out 11:36:08 I didn't like it. 11:36:46 I don't recommend writing production code like that. Nobody (even yourself in 6 months time) will be able to maintain it. 11:37:45 *NickLevine* goes to look for office copy. Oh dear., looks like we threw it out. 11:37:46 i had the same feeling, even if i thought "this is cool" 11:38:53 I'm not saying I'm not a great fan of macros and closures and all that. I just believe in leaving something readable behind when you're done. 11:40:14 v0|d [~user@95.9.238.159] has joined #lisp 11:40:17 NickLevine: is that the point of the book though? 11:40:41 breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:41:02 NickLevine: what do you think about improving readability of this kind of code with comments? the examples are mostly uncommented in the book. 11:41:03 Memory hazy, it's a while since I read it. So I'm prepared to be corrected as to its contents and "point". 11:41:22 there is no point. i just asked your opinion. 11:41:31 Sure 11:41:41 i.e. is the book claiming to present code suitable for production? 11:42:09 -!- redSnow [~Thunderbi@113.96.155.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:42:11 The thing is: if every macro you write has an impenetrable purpose, and then you netx them five deep, who on earth knows what's going on? 11:42:33 luis: for a certain extent, yes. because i think the author makes attempts to avoid dangerous situations and explains them 11:42:46 "netx" --> "nest" 11:42:48 luis: maybe not, but a newbie might assume that 11:43:02 Luis: if it isn't, then why bother? 11:43:03 Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 11:45:19 My macro of the day (so far) is pdolist -- dolist with parallel threads. Nice performance boost and the code doesn't look bad. 11:45:34 NickLevine: maybe this can be improved by properly commenting the code 11:45:41 wuyun [~wuyun@61.173.89.178] has joined #lisp 11:45:48 _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:45:49 -!- _veer [~veer@pool-71-100-236-211.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 11:45:49 _veer [~veer@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 11:45:58 przl [~przlrkt@p5B2980FD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:47:20 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-77-150.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:47:23 As I said, a while since I saw the book. But a bunch of nested macros and reader macros with short ultra-enigmatic names wants throwing out. A readable alternative would be shorter than the comment -- good code tends to speak for itself -- and you could tell from looking at it what it was supposed to do, whether it was going to work, etc. 11:48:22 But please note: I am not against macros and closures, indeed I'm a heavy user of both. 11:50:19 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 11:51:37 what are some major production systems in use today written in common lisp? 11:53:32 I know emacs has emacs lisp 11:53:36 codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has joined #lisp 11:54:13 and autodesk is written mostly in lisp 11:54:46 http://www.lispworks.com/success-stories/ ... for just one of the dozen or so CL implementations 11:54:55 the beaten horse would be ITA's QPX (air fare search engine). There's SISCOG's ERP/MRP/whatever-exactly-it-counts-as system, There are various intranet applications that aren't exactly public, some company in Norway I believe still uses their system for building blueprint analysis, Piano/Piano X (a tool for analysis of airliners) is fully Common Lisp product (and in use, among others, by Airbus) 11:55:08 http://www.franz.com/success/ for another 11:56:07 Almost anything ever presented at the European Common Lisp Meeting series http://weitz.de/eclm2013/ 11:56:13 From Franz, an important thing would be AllegroGraph, being apparently in the higher tiers of huge graph databases (though probably KnowledgeGraph's backend has bigger scale) 11:57:20 iirc in terms of RDF stores, AllegroGraph has top spot on at least one important industry benchmark? 11:57:31 Hello teratogen 11:57:33 long time 11:57:51 nilsi [~nilsi@37.250.150.216.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 11:58:11 hi loke =) 11:58:15 -!- d4gg4d [uid7020@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jwzmgbsjybosrxfi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:01 NickLevine: i'm thinking if good readability somehow relates to using common patterns and features. so if you start doing unusual things to elegantly solve an usual problem, you inherently start producing unreadable code. 12:01:26 Dunno. All I was trying to say was that bad readability isn't clever. 12:01:54 and if a solution gets popular, it gets more readable as people recognize the pattern and it becomes common 12:02:00 You can do unusual and elegant things, and still procuce beautiful code. 12:02:26 You can do standard and boring things and still produce ugly code 12:02:30 Well, I'm backing out of this. Let me know when LoL's style becomes popular. 12:02:34 It is the great mystery of life! 12:02:47 Xach: :) 12:05:14 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.9.72] has joined #lisp 12:05:14 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@92.46.9.72] has quit [Changing host] 12:05:14 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 12:07:09 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 12:11:32 What is LoL? 12:12:30 walter [~walter@97-88-38-33.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 12:13:08 Let over Lambda 12:13:20 Ah 12:13:37 or Land of Lisp. or Lisp on Lines. 12:13:55 minion: what does LoL stand for ? 12:13:55 Liveliness Overdazzle Laical 12:14:05 or that 12:14:25 minion: you're too kind 12:14:25 what's up? 12:15:36 d4gg4d [uid7020@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-taygyigbqfgmutel] has joined #lisp 12:16:30 Joreji [~thomas@160-076.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 12:19:55 -!- knob [~knob@adsl-64-237-232-189.prtc.net] has quit 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13:25:28 redSnow [~Thunderbi@113.96.155.55] has joined #lisp 13:25:49 -!- wuyun [~wuyun@61.173.89.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:26:09 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 13:26:47 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:27:33 -!- rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-247-189.uio.no] has quit [Quit: rudi] 13:31:45 doomlord [~doomlod@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:32:34 lmj` [~lmj`@c-71-192-49-13.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:32:36 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 13:33:10 antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-mvzzwuwrgddjnaxf] has joined #lisp 13:33:34 Franz says that :bar is not a package designator unless package BAR exists. 13:33:34 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:54 That is, implementations which define a package designator as (or package string symbol character) are non-conformant. 13:34:42 That is, (intern "FOO" :bar) should signal a type error unless BAR exists. 13:34:52 lmj`: support@franz.com? 13:35:01 H4ns: yes 13:35:04 davazp [~user@112.Red-88-15-121.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:12 (that's where I'm getting the info) 13:35:31 Allegro is the only implementation which has this behavior, from what I've checked so far. 13:35:54 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41-135-132-52.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Quit: Harag] 13:37:05 hwiersma [~hwiersma@d50-92-237-119.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:47 Well cmucl has it too. 13:37:54 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-197-56.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:38:02 what do the other implementations do? 13:38:10 A type error, really? So when I (funcall 'does-not-exist), does ACL fail with a type error? 13:38:53 I can see a condition for missing package, but that the spec *mandates* a *type* error is a strange interpretation. 13:39:03 wuyun [~wuyun@103.6.85.29] has joined #lisp 13:41:37 Is there some principle that the type of :bar should not change in a single lisp image? According to Franz, its type changes as more packages are defined. 13:42:45 well... is :bar still of type KEYWORD if I unintern it? 13:42:56 j_king [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has joined #lisp 13:43:24 pkhuong: well, then it's no longer :bar :) 13:43:31 lmj`: it's the same object. 13:43:59 Harag [~Thunderbi@41-135-132-52.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:44:03 Right, but the code (intern "FOO" :bar) hasn't changed. 13:45:06 segv- [~mb@95-91-241-41-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:45:07 I don't follow. You asked if the type of a symbol can change in a single lisp image. I gave a smaller instance of the same question. You decide what you prefer; I can see merits to both positions. 13:46:13 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:29 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:35 ahungry_ [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:41 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:47:50 -!- ahungry_ [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:48:03 normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-147-103-041.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:11 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:27 but still, a type error for designators that don't designate anything seems strange to me. Do they also signal a type error for unfbound symbols? 13:50:36 pkhuong: I was referring to the type of ":bar" as it appears in code. I'm trying to find some counter-argument, like maybe the ftype of a function should not be dependent upon the state of packages. 13:52:04 pkhuong: funcall says that undefined-function should be signaled, so I suppose that would be their defense, even though undefined-function is not a type-error. 13:52:30 -!- redSnow [~Thunderbi@113.96.155.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:57:02 fridim_ [~fridim@65.93.78.88] has joined #lisp 14:00:04 peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has joined #lisp 14:00:45 -!- antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-mvzzwuwrgddjnaxf] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:01:05 redSnow [~Thunderbi@113.96.155.55] has joined #lisp 14:02:33 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has quit [Client Quit] 14:04:02 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B2980FD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:04:15 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:05:29 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:06:12 There is something unsettling about this response from Franz saying they have the One True Interpretation, with everyone else being wrong. 14:06:39 paul0 [~paul0@177.132.174.55] has joined #lisp 14:09:26 and you can say "i can take my money elsewhere" 14:10:35 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:11:10 przl [~przlrkt@p5B2980FD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:11:16 stassats`: I'm not a customer so I can't really complain. I thought I was being helpful alerting them to the special treatment that Allegro requires in my code. 14:11:44 lmj`: I don't quite get it. What do you want to happen instead? 14:11:57 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-225-105.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 14:12:10 a package-error, i presume 14:12:32 Xach: All other implementations signal package-error, which is useful for knowing the offending package. 14:12:41 package-error-package 14:13:51 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:14:34 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:15:51 antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-tivdonmhaumhypwg] has joined #lisp 14:16:47 -!- shadow_prince [~sp@46.211.124.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:17:58 Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has joined #lisp 14:18:01 -!- loke [~loke_@42.61.218.195] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:20:58 -!- mc40 [~mc@host109-157-95-168.range109-157.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: mc40] 14:22:08 -!- cibs [~cibs@118-163-170-73.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:24:16 -!- arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-snioodidzscatjlf] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:24:54 mc40 [~mc@host109-157-95-168.range109-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:24:58 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 14:25:12 drmeister [~drmeister@184.71.117.234] has joined #lisp 14:25:18 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:24 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:25:58 -!- adeht [void@al.islaam.com.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 261 seconds] 14:26:13 -!- antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-tivdonmhaumhypwg] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:26:13 tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-250-21.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:16 cibs [~cibs@60-251-40-253.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:27:25 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 14:27:43 _death [root@al.islaam.com.ar] has joined #lisp 14:31:09 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Quit: Life is too short] 14:31:33 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-225-105.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:33:27 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 14:33:41 -!- zc00gii [~zc00gii@99-182-117-167.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:34:52 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 14:35:21 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has commenced electric sheep tracking protocol.] 14:35:39 -!- mc40 [~mc@host109-157-95-168.range109-157.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: mc40] 14:35:41 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 14:36:16 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-176-205-30.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:37:45 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:39:33 antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-pbpcnpodvhigydyd] has joined #lisp 14:42:44 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has joined #lisp 14:45:16 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 14:46:09 oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.54.37] has joined #lisp 14:47:56 ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has joined #lisp 14:49:52 is there anything like (asdf:output-files (make-instance 'asdf::fasl-op) (asdf:find-system SYSTEM)) that will return the lisp files instead of the fasl files? 14:50:24 hi 14:52:11 -!- ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:53:06 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #lisp 14:53:19 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:55:08 ooh nice concatenate-source-op 14:55:08 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-txogjbjlvhvpgpfx] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:55:18 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:55:19 bondar [~rukugu@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 14:55:19 -!- bondar [~rukugu@197.156.132.62] has quit [Client Quit] 14:55:21 any idea if that will be portable between lisps? 14:55:27 bondar [~rukugu@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 14:55:35 -!- bondar [~rukugu@197.156.132.62] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:56:06 jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-164.7-238.gtb.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:37 PuffTheMagic: the way of finding this out is to test it :) 14:56:47 ;) 14:57:41 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-230-175.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:58:23 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-147-103-041.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 15:01:07 _d3f [~gnu@50.7.242.122] has joined #lisp 15:02:11 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2-dev] 15:03:46 arrdem [~user@173.226.190.118] has joined #lisp 15:04:15 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:06:44 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:08:27 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:09:58 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 15:11:29 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 15:13:57 -!- ehu [~Erik@109.32.188.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:13:59 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@c-24-218-27-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:14:52 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@99-136-83-34.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:15:44 normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-147-103-041.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 15:17:30 hey guys what does this mean 15:17:32 (SB-KERNEL:TWO-ARG-- 5 "1") 15:18:20 it means that you're invoking the function #'- with a number and a string somewhere 15:18:55 thanks Blkt, I have found the function it references but don't see where I'm calling it in that manner 15:19:23 well, the stack trace may help 15:19:33 ahungry: where did you find the function? not in backtrace? 15:19:35 but that's as far as I can get with only the line you wrote 15:19:59 dump it on lisp paste 15:20:00 If anyone can view gpl code, my code is at github.com/ahungry/ahungry-tactics 15:20:10 problem function is ai-choose-target 15:20:42 only thing I hvae in there is a sort on the cadddr 15:20:50 that is passed via #' style call 15:20:55 and the < predicate 15:21:07 harish [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 15:21:19 (slot-value target 'y)? 15:21:22 direct link is https://github.com/ahungry/ahungry-tactics/blob/master/lisp/ahungry-tactics.lisp 15:21:34 shouldn't slot value return fine even if it is a string though? 15:21:48 if it's a string, it returns a string 15:22:02 check how you initialize the instance 15:22:09 thanks Blkt 15:22:38 I don't know if that's the problem though :D 15:23:07 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:23:27 calling it manually returns a proper alist with no strings, but somehow when called during the game a "1" slips through for the Y, still not sure how that is happening 15:23:36 guess I have to do some better debug 15:23:44 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756ed2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:01 (- 5 "1") produces the backtrace :) 15:24:06 -!- AeroNotix [~aero@nat/hp/x-bndvfqowvdycjxzc] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 15:24:30 ahungry: generate the error again and look up the stack trace for the value of target 15:24:43 mach [~mach@106.200.134.75] has joined #lisp 15:25:29 Oh, the TWO-ARG-- was indicating the function (-) 15:25:34 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 15:25:36 DUH moment, thanks sid_cypher :) 15:26:10 by the way, using slot-value directly instead of a proper accessor is bad style 15:27:00 yea, I am still pretty new to CL, is the slot-accessor just called via (slot-accessor object 'name)? and requires I define an :accessor in my class? 15:27:01 krishnak [~krishnak@50.11.87.144] has joined #lisp 15:27:18 where's your class definition? 15:27:25 the defclass for what target is 15:28:24 you can define :reader :writer or :accessor 15:28:28 check the hyperspec 15:28:30 It's hidden in the macro: GAME-DATASET on line 51 15:28:48 -!- mach [~mach@106.200.134.75] has quit [Client Quit] 15:28:54 But, I'm failing to see where/how it gets values set. 15:28:55 yea that was because I was mapping these classes and functions to convert them into json output to how my mysql db was structured when I started 15:29:17 Do they come from JSON, too, or do they come from the database? 15:29:23 so when I call (game-dataset unit hp mp x y name), it makes the defclass for me, a global *units* and some other things like (units-to-json function 15:29:40 then the json is containing a string 15:29:42 input from the json resopnses sent into the usocket server 15:29:46 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Client Quit] 15:29:51 or you read it wrong 15:29:56 inkjetunito [~hf999@unaffiliated/inkjetunit] has joined #lisp 15:29:59 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 15:29:59 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Client Quit] 15:30:40 -!- krishnak [~krishnak@50.11.87.144] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:30:45 Curious that the problem was on the 'y slot but not the 'x slot on the line above compiler re-ordering? or something different in the two slots? 15:32:14 I suppose it's just data 15:32:18 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 15:32:36 krishnak [~krishnak@63.251.54.158] has joined #lisp 15:33:10 ah I love combined technologies - my javascript was failing to have a parseInt on something sent in 15:33:34 although the real issue I guess is I need a better way to confirm my class slot values are what they should be 15:34:09 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Client Quit] 15:34:23 thanks guys 15:34:25 If only there was a loop that read some form, evaluated it and printed the result. 15:34:30 I've been told to override initialize-instance for the defined class to ensure data types of slots 15:34:36 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 15:34:41 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:34:52 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 15:34:55 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:34:56 i'm totally going to use parenscript for my lispwebapps 15:35:04 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 15:35:04 but I think you'd need a far more complex class definition system than the macro you wrote to have it automatically defined 15:35:06 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:35:19 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 15:35:25 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:35:31 i may just write a wrapper for the json decode 15:35:35 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 15:35:38 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:35:39 and make a hash table of key names and then their expected types 15:35:49 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 15:35:51 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:35:54 so, like my hash would have "x" as 'int' and on the json encodes/decodes, ensure it is that type 15:36:30 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 15:36:35 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:36:40 do you control the json you use or you get it from "something"/"someone" else? 15:36:48 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 15:36:49 bobbysmith0071 [~russ@firewall-dcd1.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:50 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:37:02 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 15:37:06 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:37:41 smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has joined #lisp 15:37:43 i do 15:38:18 then I'd go for metadata instead 15:38:26 put type information in the json 15:38:57 otherwise you have to define all the slots and their types in the hashmap before evaluating your macros 15:39:58 by having {"type":"int", "x":1} you can just dispatch the second part of the JSON based on the first part 15:40:06 oh good idea 15:40:09 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 15:40:09 I'd recommend extending the game-object macro to let you define a field either as a name or as a list where the first thing is 'name' and the rest of the list is additional slot options. 15:40:14 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:40:17 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 15:40:25 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 15:40:29 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:40:36 if anyone wants to peek at the game itself (no sign up needed), its at http://tactics.ahungry.com/play/ 15:40:42 if you aren't working or anything 15:41:08 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@37.250.150.216.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:41:42 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:42:44 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-144-97.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:56 G'morning all. 15:43:17 at first i wanted to fork it and run it, but then i noticed that it's a web project running in apache 15:43:25 nyef: moin^^ 15:43:33 hi 15:44:45 Just run into a bit of a problem with postmodern that I'm at a partial loss as to how to debug. I'm selecting a fairly large bytea column from my database, and it's giving me a variety of errors depending on which row I try to read. 15:45:26 (fairly large, in this case, is between 1.5 and 8 megabytes) 15:46:11 hi nyef :) 15:46:16 I'm running a 2013-03-12 snapshot that was installed via quicklisp. 15:46:21 Hello fe[nl]ix. 15:46:31 How's the job going? 15:46:47 Allegrograph is fascinating 15:47:23 :D 15:47:46 you mean for its nosql nature or something else? 15:48:02 its being a graph database 15:48:09 and using prolog for querying 15:48:25 :D 15:48:36 fe[nl]ix: full-blown prolog, not some restriction like datalog? That's an interesting choice. 15:49:04 I don't know if it's full-blown prolog 15:49:14 I'm quite ignorant about it 15:49:23 but for the moment I like what I see 15:49:55 krishnak` [~krishnak@50.11.87.144] has joined #lisp 15:50:06 sdemarre [~serge@109.134.145.29] has joined #lisp 15:50:26 What's an example of a type that depends upon mutable state? Franz's interpretation of a package designator is one such animal -- if BAR is not a package then :bar is not a package designator. 15:51:08 lmj`: CONS types. 15:51:22 KEYWORD. 15:51:29 Hi, is there a way to get all the args to a function as a list? 15:51:30 -!- john-mcaleely [~jhm@nat/canonical/x-ibduwbsqiizustus] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:51:34 ARRAY types (adjust-array) 15:51:42 the actual lambda-list which is passed in 15:51:45 gendl: like &rest? 15:52:18 nilsi [~nilsi@37.250.150.216.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 15:52:21 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-185-201-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:52:26 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@184.71.117.234] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:52:27 let's say I have (defun respond-with-new-html-sections (req ent respondent &key js-to-eval-stati)  ) 15:52:40 gendl: &rest keys &key ... 15:52:41 now in the "" part, I want to just refer to all the args together 15:52:55 drmeister [~drmeister@184.71.117.234] has joined #lisp 15:53:12 but i need the non-key args as well 15:53:12 pkhuong fe[nl]ix from franz.com: "Allegro Prolog does not intend to be an ISO-compliant Prolog, nor does it implement the entire Prolog language." 15:53:26 gendl: (list* req ent respondent keys) 15:53:34 http://www.franz.com/support/documentation/current/doc/prolog.html 15:53:47 Oh, hell. Not using SSL for the database connection clears up the error instantly. 15:53:53 AeroNotix [~xeno@abov3.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:53:56 I'm REALLY starting to get annoyed with CL+SSL. 15:53:56 ok but i have to literally repeat the actual arg names? 15:54:00 -!- rk[zzz] is now known as rk[wrkwrkwrk] 15:54:12 no magic operator just to give everything as a list, so it can be done generically for any function 15:54:22 that relates to AllegroCL 8.0 though... 15:54:53 gendl: sure. Have an &rest lambda list and destructuring-bind inside. You get useless completion info as a bonus. 15:55:30 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-147-103-041.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: normanrichards] 15:55:38 First LISTEN doesn't work properly on SSL streams, now READ-SEQUENCE can return "early"... 15:55:40 yeah, the useless completion info is a reason i want to avoid going there 15:55:42 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 15:55:52 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 15:56:18 i don't want to have to touch these function signatures i just want to pass all the args on to a generic handler 15:56:34 gendl: alexandria has lambda list parsing code that should make this macroable. 15:57:07 the thing is, I don't even need to parse any lambda list 15:57:16 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@184.71.117.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:57:25 i just want to swallow the whole lambda list as-is 15:57:45 fine. find a way to do that without parsing any lambda list. 15:57:52 (Admittedly, the "correct" behavior for LISTEN wasn't useful to me, and the "broken" behavior was almost useful, but required handling a condition the name of which isn't exported...) 15:58:12 nyef: I've had a lot of trouble with cl+ssl 15:58:18 well i mean the parsing happens downstream already 15:58:26 "someone" should make a pure cl ssl implementation 15:58:54 dlowe: I don't mind an FFI-based implementation, I just want one that WORKS, that's WELL DOCUMENTED. 15:59:05 benkard [~benkard@ppp-188-174-69-28.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 15:59:21 That has all of the symbols that you need in order to work with it EXPORTED. 15:59:23 nyef: I don't mind an FFI-based implementation either, except that OpenSSL is batshit insane even if you're using C 16:00:08 *patrickwonders* seconds the OpenSSL-crazy 16:00:15 dlowe: why? 16:01:05 dlowe: nacl, or whatever the djb-approved project is called? 16:01:41 I think that my best course of action for the time being is to be grateful that I have a VPN and that my servers have a private network on their own dedicated switch, and just disable SSL for the database connections. 16:03:19 -!- Triclops256 is now known as Triclops|lunch 16:03:54 pkhuong: KEYWORD is a good example, but I don't see how CONS fits. By state I don't mean type parameters. 16:04:09 pkhuong: i see what you mean. If I can obtain the lambda list as such, then of course I have to parse it in order to turn it into the actual list with evaluated values. 16:04:43 -!- sdemarre [~serge@109.134.145.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:04:59 lmj`: (typep x '(cons (eql 42))). rplaca. oups. 16:05:28 pkhuong: That's mutating an object, not mutating the TYPE. 16:05:41 nyef: and that's what lmj` is asking about. 16:05:51 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-jnavolgnpqxqexpu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:05:59 The specific example given earlier was for package designators and DEFPACKAGE. 16:06:11 cl:function-lambda-expression may or may not return the relevant information. 16:06:28 swank-backend:arglist will probably return relevant information, but depends on swank-backend being there.. 16:06:53 pkhuong: no, I switched to mutable types above. 16:07:33 (what nyef said) 16:07:34 The distinction is fuzzy, but sure. 16:07:52 anything other than KEYWORD? 16:08:06 So KEYWORD might be a good example, and any composite type can contain a "mutable" type. 16:08:35 I'm not convinced about KEYWORD, though. 16:09:44 ... Okay, now I am, as you can have a SYMBOL that isn't a KEYWORD, and then INTERN it into the KEYWORD package, at which point it becomes a keyword. 16:10:34 lmj`: probably. I only listed those that I'm aware of because they cause obvious issue in practice. 16:11:16 I thought I read Pitman saying that he wished :this-syntax had better static treatment. 16:11:31 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@37.250.150.216.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:12:09 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:12:18 nyef: I don't see how INTERNing a symbol is fundamentally different from RPLACAing a CONS. 16:13:07 pkhuong: interning a symbol changes the definition of the KEYWORD type. 16:13:24 Mmm... You may be right. 16:13:47 lmj`: It doesn't actually. It changes the membership, but not the definition. 16:14:13 And we can make the same argument about package designators and DEFPACKAGE. 16:14:43 nyef: but the membership test is the definition? 16:15:17 The membership test is "those symbols whose SYMBOL-PACKAGE is the KEYWORD package". 16:16:06 drmeister [~drmeister@184.71.117.234] has joined #lisp 16:16:11 The TEST and DEFINITION are unchanged, as they're based on properties of the symbol. 16:17:04 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@95.35.54.37] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:17:11 for extra hilarity, construct things that are typep keyword but not keywordp 16:17:16 -!- benkard [~benkard@ppp-188-174-69-28.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:17:57 Heh. Yeah, I remember working out how to do that within the bounds of the CL spec. 16:18:10 do any of you know how to use asdf's monolithic-concatenate-source-op 16:18:18 ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has joined #lisp 16:18:26 Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 16:18:36 PuffTheMagic: i've experimented with it a bit 16:18:38 Creating a symbol that is public in the keyword package, but whose symbol-package is something else. 16:18:47 nyef: but I can equally define KEYWORD as "those symbols currently belonging to this bucket". 16:19:10 gendl: got any tips on joining the source of a few packages? 16:19:11 you pretty much just call it with (asdf:operate 'asdf:monolithic-concatenate-source-op :) 16:19:38 just one system name? 16:19:48 how is that different than concatenate-source-op 16:20:07 oh wait am I getting confuse? 16:20:20 maybe i experimented with concatenate-source-op 16:20:38 whatever I was trying, it tries to make one huge .lisp file out of a system. 16:20:52 benkard [~benkard@ppp-188-174-69-28.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has joined #lisp 16:20:55 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:20:58 the main issue I ran into was need for additional (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute)  ) 16:21:27 wrapped around various things which don't need it when compiled & loaded from separate files 16:21:53 i don't think defpackage would give that kind of issue because iiuc defpackage is already wrapped in an implicit (eval-when () ...) 16:22:16 oh the monolithic one includes all dependencies. 16:22:46 -!- ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:22:52 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@d50-92-237-119.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:23:00 so if you are depending on 3rdpty libraries, you'll find yourself on a tour through their sources, likely discovering that they are missing eval-when's in various places 16:24:27 My sources aren't missing eval-when forms, they're implemented with the explicit assumption that they're in separate compilation units. 16:25:24 -!- srcerer_ is now known as srcerer 16:26:26 -!- patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: patrickwonders] 16:27:25 mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 16:27:35 -!- mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:27:40 of course, they're not "missing" with respect to normal expectations. when I say "missing" i mean in terms of wanting to do a monolithic-concatenate-source-op which I suppose is a bit of a specialized requirement. 16:27:40 mcsontos__ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 16:28:52 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@184.71.117.234] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:28:56 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-159-207.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:25 drmeister [~drmeister@184.71.117.234] has joined #lisp 16:29:31 gendl: that op returns a list of files 16:30:00 patrickwonders [~patrickwo@user-38q42ns.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 16:30:37 it may return a list as its return-value, but as a side-effect it creates a --all-systems- source file somewhere 16:31:21 you can see where that file will/did end up with (asdf:output-file 'asdf:monolithic-concatenate-source-op :) 16:31:34 ph88 [5597cc14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.151.204.20] has joined #lisp 16:33:46 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@184.71.117.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:36:18 gendl: right, I was using asdf:input-files. Actually concatenating them all doesn't seem like a useful operation. 16:36:31 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B2980FD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:36:43 -!- mcsontos__ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:36:45 przl [~przlrkt@p5B2980FD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:37:01 Joreji [~thomas@160-076.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 16:39:16 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:40:02 -!- victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has quit [Quit: Leaving IRC - dircproxy 1.2.0] 16:40:07 i just keep getting The assertion (UIOP/UTILITY:LENGTH=N-P ASDF/ACTION::FILES 1) failed 16:40:16 when i try using monolithic on my package 16:41:18 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:23 hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106602ad08e475a.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:37 jewel [~jewel@105-237-9-188.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:41:47 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:42:35 Kaisyu [~Kaisyu@183.109.111.173] has joined #lisp 16:42:57 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@c-24-218-27-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:44:25 uiop? Next to be bundled with asdf: quit writing egregious rubrics (qwer) 16:44:27 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-176-67-133.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:31 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@c-24-218-27-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:01 -!- Joreji [~thomas@160-076.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:45:31 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@88-149-239-139.v4.ngi.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:46:17 ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has joined #lisp 16:47:38 nilsi [~nilsi@37.250.150.216.bredband.tre.se] has joined #lisp 16:48:48 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:49:32 must have been a weird file in my working dir 16:49:37 i cleaned it out and now its happy 16:50:30 Joreji [~thomas@160-076.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 16:52:42 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 16:52:46 -!- nilsi [~nilsi@37.250.150.216.bredband.tre.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:52:57 -!- davazp [~user@112.Red-88-15-121.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:53:21 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B2980FD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:53:52 -!- walter [~walter@97-88-38-33.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:55:43 -!- lmj` [~lmj`@c-71-192-49-13.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:57:58 nymo [~user@67.137.177.90] has joined #lisp 16:58:53 -!- benkard [~benkard@ppp-188-174-69-28.dynamic.mnet-online.de] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 16:59:15 -!- Triclops|lunch is now known as Triclops256 17:00:47 -!- jeremyheiler [~jeremyhei@38.98.105.130] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:01:39 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f756ed2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 17:04:23 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04:46 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 17:05:40 _malicious [~cs@elderberry.cs.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 17:06:23 theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has joined #lisp 17:06:59 michaeljmcd [~michael@ip-64-134-196-230.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:49 There are advantages to having cons cells (pairs) as the basic data structure and building lists from that.....However, I can see Paul Graham's point in his Roots of Lisp that it may sometimes be attractive to just make *lists* the fundamental data structure and avoid the lists vs. cons cells distinction....is that ok? 17:08:21 i mean.....anyone agree that lists are simple in their own right and throwing nested cons cells at a beginner may SOMETIMES not be way to go? 17:09:32 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:09:48 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:38 -!- breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:10:54 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@c-24-218-27-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:11:05 in my experience, cons cells have been invaluable to understand recursive definitions and algebraic data structures 17:11:29 -!- Joreji [~thomas@160-076.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:12:19 Joreji [~thomas@160-076.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:12:48 lisp became a lot more comprehensible to me once I stopped thinking of lists as nested cons cells and as just ordinary linked lists 17:13:05 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:13:21 I don't know why every intro book insists on this 17:13:32 what's the difference you found? 17:13:47 -!- Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:13:57 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:15:56 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-230-138.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:24 Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has joined #lisp 17:17:28 -!- redSnow [~Thunderbi@113.96.155.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:19:41 robgssp [~user@cpe-24-93-28-218.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:21:35 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:22:23 mrSpec [~Spec@77-254-151-81.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #lisp 17:22:23 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@77-254-151-81.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Changing host] 17:22:23 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 17:22:23 prip [~foo@95.233.14.8] has joined #lisp 17:23:07 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-176-67-133.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:27:42 Corvidium [~cosman246@D-173-250-173-10.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 17:27:55 what client do you guys use for IRC? 17:28:16 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:29:06 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 17:29:47 *Xach* uses irssi 17:31:46 seems interesting 17:31:49 I'll give it a try 17:31:52 weechat is best client ever 17:32:41 ERC, it allows for easier writing of lisp 17:33:03 stassats`: what do you mean? 17:33:18 *_death* uses erc as well 17:33:19 it's an emacs IRC client 17:33:25 I know, I'm using it too 17:33:28 ah, damn, emacs 17:33:38 Blkt: so, it's easier to use it for writing code 17:34:07 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-226-213.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:34:29 you can even go as far as adding tab-completion and arg-list display, but i didn't bother 17:34:47 I follow "one program for each task" rule, maybe I'm too crazy about this UNIX way but it works 17:34:58 *nicdev* is trying to use emacs for everything including erc 17:35:03 hitecnologys: ERC is one program 17:35:06 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-176-67-133.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:19 hitecnologys: do you use a new window manager for every gui process? 17:35:25 one program does not exclude the same program for many tasks :D 17:35:43 -!- Joreji [~thomas@160-076.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:36:02 anyway, I'm having problems with erc + screen via ssh 17:36:14 jagaj: nope, window manager manages windows, why am I supposed to use new one for each window? 17:36:29 and its customary for lispers to hate Unix, since it killed their beloved lisp machines 17:36:29 why wouldn't you use emacs for ' 17:36:33 'more than one thing' then? 17:36:44 characters keep flying around 17:37:11 idk, I's just me =P 17:37:29 s/I's/it's/ 17:37:52 jagaj: your logic is unsound 17:37:58 it's not logic. 17:38:02 that was probably incorrect sentence 17:38:13 hitecnologys is using one program, the window manager, for its only purpose 17:38:28 I'm suggesting treating emacs as a pseudo-wm 17:38:34 hitecnologys: have you read the unix haters handbook? 17:38:43 I get that 17:39:16 stassats`: I wanted to read it a few months ago but then I forgot about it, that's how it works 17:40:37 normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-147-102-246.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 17:40:49 -!- michaeljmcd [~michael@ip-64-134-196-230.public.wayport.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:41:44 -!- jagaj [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: jagaj] 17:42:50 Joreji [~thomas@160-076.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:43:52 at this point someone should ask about operating systems... 17:44:30 jeremyheiler [~jeremyhei@38.98.105.130] has joined #lisp 17:45:18 Xach: does irssi use some kind of config file? 17:45:21 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-88-68.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:45:26 I can't find anything in its documentation 17:45:55 -!- ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:46:26 Blkt: it has one but imo irssi has poor documentation 17:46:52 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-80-15.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:23 drmeister [~drmeister@184.71.117.234] has joined #lisp 17:47:45 -!- Joreji [~thomas@160-076.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:50:35 I need to go, goodbye everyone. 17:50:39 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@46.233.241.78] has quit [Quit: hitecnologys] 17:51:21 I use xchat with the znc bouncer 17:51:21 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:53:18 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-80-15.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:54:40 can't use xchat, I need something accessible via shell 17:54:42 Joreji [~thomas@160-076.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 17:54:50 remote shell 17:54:53 I use irssi on a terminal 17:54:59 (with the znc bouncer) 17:55:10 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-90-184.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:13 I don't understand why people love it so much 17:55:51 for its motto I think 17:56:19 BitchX ftw 17:56:38 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:56:41 *stassats`* waits till wbooze says how great beirc is 17:59:46 dlowe: aha..thanks 18:01:57 -!- wuyun [~wuyun@103.6.85.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:03:03 lol 18:03:20 it is 18:03:49 the feature set and screenshot aren't very compelling. 18:04:01 -!- nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-144-97.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 18:04:06 sorry, the advertised feature set 18:04:29 i'd prefer a lispdb tho to mysql/pg 18:04:46 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:04:58 with transchangeable formats..... 18:05:11 gavin schuette would too. 18:05:55 I used rucksack for a project and it wasn't bad 18:05:55 -!- pranavrc [~pranavrc@unaffiliated/pranavrc] has quit [Quit: Ping timeout: ] 18:06:13 anyone ever have an issue with slime/emacs where it prints "Polling /tmp/slime.123" .. (Abort with `M-x slime-abort-connection'.) at the bottom 18:06:33 Using that slime-abort-connection doesn't stop that message from appearing, only a slime-restart-inferior-lisp does 18:06:47 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@184.71.117.234] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:07:16 drmeister [~drmeister@184.71.117.234] has joined #lisp 18:08:03 ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has joined #lisp 18:09:05 puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:09:29 ahungry: I had it once, but only because I was trying to invoke slime-mode multiple times or similar 18:09:53 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:59 irssi rules. i run it 24/7 in a shell account and it sends notifications on my phone 18:10:46 that must be annoying 18:10:51 yes, but WHY does it rule? 18:11:28 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@184.71.117.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:11:38 specifically, why is it better than other terminal irc clients? 18:11:42 dlowe: it is full features, very mature and very extensible with perl scripts 18:11:49 that's, like, all of them. 18:11:55 drmeister [~drmeister@184.71.117.234] has joined #lisp 18:12:01 Blkt_ [~pi@82.84.149.56] has joined #lisp 18:12:07 -!- Blkt [~user@82.84.149.56] has quit [Quit: brb] 18:12:13 i use irssi as well 18:12:21 anyway, this should probably be discussed in #lispcafe 18:12:51 unless we're going to solve the problem with the Amazing Power of Lisp [tm] 18:13:13 oh, community and support are often listed as lisp's problem 18:13:42 well irssi has those. 18:14:29 support :o 18:14:53 lisp's "problem" is lack of corporate backing or unfilled niche. I've had no problems getting support or community here. 18:15:07 ok, got irssi working 18:15:12 -!- Blkt_ is now known as Blkt 18:15:26 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:15:30 shadow_prince [~sp@46.211.180.194] has joined #lisp 18:16:09 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:21 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-211-11-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 18:19:10 `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has joined #lisp 18:19:40 so I have a stream object, and I want to pass its contents out to functions that take char arrays (that ultimately get sent over sockets) but the stream .c_srt() only returns const pointers (I think), so how do I tie everything together? Do I make my own functions accept const pointers? If I do that, and I later want to use these funcitons with normal char arrays that I've modified myself, so I then "const cast" them as I pass them to my functions? 18:20:06 wrong channel? 18:20:24 przl [~przlrkt@p5B2980FD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:20:26 whoops 18:20:27 yes 18:20:36 ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:20:55 get the torches and pitchforks 18:21:08 i just though that you could write c++ in lisp just as well 18:21:15 *thought 18:21:23 rosario [~rosario@fsf/member/rosario] has joined #lisp 18:21:34 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-176-67-133.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:22:15 sid_cypher: I can see you're not here because you actually want to write programs 18:22:31 -!- rosario [~rosario@fsf/member/rosario] has left #lisp 18:22:44 dlowe: true for now. 18:25:51 cl-locatives make awesome pointers. don't know any uses for them except translating code 1-to-1 18:27:41 you can use a cons cell for the same effect. 18:29:50 I take that back. That's pretty neat. 18:30:45 setf'able places you can carry anywhere^^ 18:30:52 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@193.137.28.184] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:31:50 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:32:16 closures? 18:33:52 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-176-67-133.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:53 fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 18:34:24 closure make new things, not access to existing things 18:34:41 eh? 18:34:51 they can make new things that access existing things. 18:35:52 ...apparently so. but they make accessors and not places, right? 18:36:42 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:36:59 places are just syntax. (defun box (box) (funcall box)) (defun (setf box) (value box) (funcall box value)). (setf (box closure) 42) now works. 18:37:11 terminology. accessor like getter-setter functions 18:38:03 -!- maxm [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:39:08 yeah, i'm too sleepy and stupid right now to look for caveat differences between closures and locatives :) 18:39:35 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 18:40:35 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:54 -!- theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:43:26 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:44:02 pkhuong: locatives allow you to, say, store a reference to the 5th element of an array without having to explicitly pass 4 and the array 18:44:04 mishoo [~mishoo@93.113.190.121] has joined #lisp 18:44:19 it's a neat hack 18:44:41 dlowe: I know. 18:45:44 heh. okay. 18:46:23 -!- codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:46:36 Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-1279267718.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 18:49:53 an argument for the case http://www.cawtech.demon.co.uk/lisp/locative.txt 18:50:40 corni [~corni@HSI-KBW-134-3-31-179.hsi14.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 18:50:40 -!- corni [~corni@HSI-KBW-134-3-31-179.hsi14.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Changing host] 18:50:40 corni [~corni@drupal.org/user/136353/view] has joined #lisp 18:51:04 bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has joined #lisp 18:58:23 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-176-67-133.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:00:32 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 19:00:49 v0yager [~v0yager@ip-64-134-182-165.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:55 -!- _d3f [~gnu@50.7.242.122] has quit [Quit: And buff he was gone$] 19:04:43 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B2980FD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:07:20 -!- pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-8-101.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:07:44 pjb [~t@AMontsouris-651-1-8-101.w90-46.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:08:54 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:10:04 ASau [~user@p4FF97755.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:10:40 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-237-9-188.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:11:38 rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:00 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-10-119.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 19:13:05 -!- krishnak` [~krishnak@50.11.87.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:14:08 przl [~przlrkt@p5B2980FD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:15:14 emacs-dwim [~user@rrcs-72-43-236-2.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:15:39 Anyone know if cl.net is healthy? Just tried to send email to admin@common-lisp.net and got a bounce. Also getting 404 from mailman URL. 19:19:17 it is unhealthy 19:19:50 it's "avoid if at all possible" 19:19:58 can't rely on anything these days 19:20:21 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-84-111-168-71.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:46 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:21:29 seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has joined #lisp 19:22:02 -!- v0yager [~v0yager@ip-64-134-182-165.public.wayport.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:22:20 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@dsl-164.7-238.gtb.net] has quit [Quit: jangle] 19:23:27 stassats`: why is it a feature that we can't get at the mailing list archives, etc? 19:23:42 rpg: beats me! 19:23:59 weren't you the one who said it was? 19:24:13 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 19:24:18 but i don't know the reasons 19:24:33 Ah. It's just proclaimed to be a feature. 19:24:38 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:24:45 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:24:51 How does one subscribe, then? 19:25:34 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 19:25:38 I think you send mail to asdf-devel+subscribe or maybe asdf-devel-subscribe or something 19:25:51 i assume so, i'm not involved with cl.net, but seeing as the mailing list software was changed, and replaced with an incompatible one, i can only assume that it was intended by those who did so 19:26:13 because otherwise it wouldn't be the case 4 months after 19:26:30 kiuma [~kiuma@2-230-138-74.ip202.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 19:26:37 "to unsubscribe send a message to cdr-discuss+unsubscribe@common-lisp.net 19:26:40 " 19:26:46 rpg: but i'm mostly unhappy and sarcastic 19:26:48 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-185-201-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has commenced electric sheep tracking protocol.] 19:28:55 Krystof: I saw the unsubscribe direction, but nothing about subscribing.... 19:29:37 I assume that I'm one of the people who would need to moderate subscription requests for ASDF-DEVEL. No idea how I would do that..... 19:29:39 ABCL moved away from cl.net after the "migration" 19:29:53 rpg: send mail to asdf-devel+help@ ? 19:30:11 I mean, I don't know either. I am particularly not pleased about every single archive suddenly going dark 19:30:16 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@184.71.117.234] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:30:42 it's as if a zillion RSS readers also decided to take a few mailing list archives with them 19:30:44 drmeister [~drmeister@184.71.117.234] has joined #lisp 19:32:07 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: phunq, sandwich store loop, WHAT NO UNIVERSE] 19:33:10 -!- _malicious [~cs@elderberry.cs.swarthmore.edu] has left #lisp 19:35:19 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@184.71.117.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:39:02 drmeister [~drmeister@184.71.117.234] has joined #lisp 19:41:14 -!- TristamWrk is now known as TristamWork 19:41:45 -!- TristamWork is now known as TristamWrk 19:41:51 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@c-24-218-27-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:06 asdf-devel+help@common-lisp.net it is.... 19:42:11 Thanks, Krystof 19:42:13 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-133-34.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 19:42:28 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B2980FD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:42:54 -!- bondar [~bondar@197.156.132.62] has quit [] 19:42:56 hahaha -- we can get the Nth message in the mailing list archive using asdf-devel+get-N@common-lisp.net. 19:43:11 If I know what the Nth message is, I bet I don't need to email away to get a copy ;-) 19:43:18 that... is quite something 19:43:30 nth? i thought it was for N messages 19:43:48 anyhow, you can send K mails with N from 0 to K 19:45:53 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:46:17 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:48:17 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 19:48:38 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:10 -!- normanrichards [~normanric@mobile-166-147-102-246.mycingular.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:49:43 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-185-201-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:05 jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has joined #lisp 19:50:08 przl [~przlrkt@p5B2980FD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:50:10 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B2980FD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:52:07 stassats`: Marginally more likely: I could slam my head in a door n times..... 19:52:40 you mean K times? 19:53:25 rpg_ [~rpg@23-25-144-220-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:27 ahungry: I haven't really figured out how to play the game, but it looks like you put a lot of effort into it. 19:53:48 -!- rpg_ [~rpg@23-25-144-220-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:53:55 rpg_ [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:58 peccu2 [~peccu@KD106179020073.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 19:54:06 -!- rpg [~rpg@23-25-144-217-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:54:42 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:54:43 gak-pdx [~GKlimowic@gw0-cust-threeoaks.com.ptle.eli.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:08 hwiersma2 [~hwiersma@S0106602ad08e475a.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:31 -!- Triclops256 is now known as Triclops256|away 19:56:32 NickLevine_ [~chatzilla@ravenbrook.nsdsl.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:48 lusory_ [~lusory@42.60.25.228] has joined #lisp 19:57:03 chu_ [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 19:57:23 zfx- [~zfx@ec2-176-34-198-128.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 19:57:42 arademaker [user@nat/ibm/x-bafpnsyqpttyacyf] has joined #lisp 19:57:53 Blkt_ [~pi@82.84.149.56] has joined #lisp 19:58:18 chameco_ [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:58:24 -!- felipe [~felipe@unaffiliated/felipe] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:58:30 arubin [~arubin@216-80-70-2.c3-0.alc-ubr4.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 19:58:44 I am trying to use a C++ library called FreeLing from ABCL (using the library JAVA API). I have just posted a question in http://stackoverflow.com/questions/17556912/calling-freeling-java-api-from-abcl. Does anyone know of any limitation of ABCL to deal with the System.load of Java? 19:59:12 Joreji_ [~thomas@160-076.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 19:59:33 arademaker: I don't know, but if I wanted help with ABCL I do know they have a really great mailing list. 19:59:37 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:59:40 ttm [~The_third@irc.tocards.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:43 -!- chu_ is now known as chu 19:59:44 People often answer ABCL questions here, too, but the mailing list is very good. 20:00:16 -!- Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-1279267718.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:00:20 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:00:25 -!- peccu1 [~peccu@KD106179020073.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:00:30 -!- `fogus is now known as fogus|gone 20:01:01 tensorpuddin [~tensorpud@108.87.20.106] has joined #lisp 20:01:35 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:35 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-133-34.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:36 -!- Blkt [~pi@82.84.149.56] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:36 -!- Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:36 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106602ad08e475a.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:36 -!- lusory [~lusory@42.60.25.228] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:36 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:36 -!- NickLevine [~chatzilla@ravenbrook.nsdsl.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:37 -!- spacebat [spacebat@core.ubermonkey.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:37 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:37 -!- xristos [x@ns3.suspicious.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:37 -!- tvaalen [~r@kinda.sorta.maybe.going.postal.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:37 -!- joshe [~joshe@2001:470:e862::1:1] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:38 -!- tensorpudding [~tensorpud@108.87.20.106] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:38 -!- The_third_man [~The_third@irc.tocards.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:38 -!- cruxeternus [cruxtech@secspeed.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:38 -!- clog [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:38 -!- mal___ [mal@ks24170.kimsufi.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:38 -!- Zhivago [~lys@unaffiliated/zhivago] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:01:39 -!- NickLevine_ is now known as NickLevine 20:01:43 -!- tensorpuddin is now known as tensorpudding 20:01:43 see also: #abcl 20:02:18 lduros` [~user@pool-108-52-158-77.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:21 samebchase: thanks, still need some work, hope you liked the concept 20:02:22 cruxeternus [cruxtech@secspeed.com] has joined #lisp 20:02:35 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-26-159-207.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:03:05 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-159-207.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:03:21 Xach: thanks. 20:03:43 stassats`: thanks. I posted at #abcl the same question too. 20:04:09 ahungry: have fun :-) 20:04:43 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:06:45 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 20:06:45 Myk267 [~myk@adsl-71-149-252-38.dsl.mtry01.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:45 spacebat [spacebat@core.ubermonkey.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:45 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 20:06:45 xristos [x@ns3.suspicious.org] has joined #lisp 20:06:45 tvaalen [~r@kinda.sorta.maybe.going.postal.se] has joined #lisp 20:06:45 joshe [~joshe@2001:470:e862::1:1] has joined #lisp 20:06:45 Zhivago [~lys@unaffiliated/zhivago] has joined #lisp 20:08:16 -!- arubin [~arubin@216-80-70-2.c3-0.alc-ubr4.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:08:33 mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:05 -!- Karl_dscc 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quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:42:32 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@160-076.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:43:21 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-175-69-243.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:44:14 Bike [~Glossina@75-175-75-20.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:10 nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-128-24.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:07 -!- iig00cz is now known as anarchostalin 21:50:36 -!- AeroNoti1 [~xeno@abos217.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:50:47 -!- anarchostalin is now known as iig00cz 21:51:48 redscare [~Adium@rle-12-037.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 21:51:53 Joreji_ [~thomas@160-076.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 21:52:04 is there a way to have a macro expand to something like `,@(something...) 21:52:35 so i want to write a macro that writes the code ,@(something) 21:53:09 '`,@(something...)? 21:53:42 -!- bjorkintosh [~bjork@ip68-13-229-200.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:54:53 doesn't work, comma not inside backquote... 21:55:44 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 21:56:04 -!- fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:56:09 -!- Kaisyu [~Kaisyu@183.109.111.173] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:56:28 oh right, `,@ is undefined, what am i thinking 21:56:34 if you want a macro to return multiple forms, just use progn. 21:57:51 Bike: i want a macro that i can use in other macros to either insert something if a predicate is true, or insert nothing 21:57:52 -!- rk[wrkwrkwrk] is now known as ryankarason 21:58:25 redscare: sounds like it'd be better as a function that returns a list. 21:58:34 so to avoid writing things like ,@(if test (list test)) 21:59:36 i.e. `(defgeneric ,name ,args ,@(if docstring (list :documentation docstring))) 21:59:45 this will only include a docstring if it is defined 21:59:53 otherwise will be blank 22:00:01 you have to use ,@ in any case 22:01:48 -!- arademaker [user@nat/ibm/x-bafpnsyqpttyacyf] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:02:46 -!- Bike [~Glossina@75-175-75-20.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:03:21 sellout1 [~Adium@c-98-245-83-250.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:38 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@198.179.137.210] has quit [Quit: I tend to be neutral about apples] 22:03:44 Bike [~Glossina@75-175-75-20.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:04:06 redscare: that macro sounds like it should just be a function. 22:04:33 tenq [~tenq@199.19.116.207] has joined #lisp 22:05:16 -!- sellout [~Adium@74-93-231-142-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:05:16 -!- tenq [~tenq@199.19.116.207] has left #lisp 22:05:58 -!- sellout1 [~Adium@c-98-245-83-250.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:06:40 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@160-076.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:07:48 to be clear, i would like to be able to write (defmacro (name args docstring) `(defgeneric ,name ,args (insert-when docstring))) 22:08:25 sorry, (defmacro (name args docstring) `(defgeneric ,name ,args (insert-when docstring (list :documentation docstring)))) 22:08:31 Joreji_ [~thomas@160-076.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 22:08:36 well that's not gonna work, it's quoted 22:09:00 sorry last time :) (defmacro (name args docstring) `(defgeneric ,name ,args ,(insert-when docstring (list :documentation docstring)))) 22:09:46 -!- nymo [~user@67.137.177.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:10:28 ,@(when docstring (list :documentation docstring)) 22:10:31 redscare: what if you want more things besides the docstring? 22:10:40 you stil need ,@, and how's that better than what you had originally? 22:11:36 Alexulter [~Alexulter@89-178-178-111.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 22:12:15 stassats`: purely aesthetic, i wouldn't have to remember to use ,@ :) 22:12:25 you can't not use it, though 22:13:16 yeah, you're trying to splicing unquote. 22:13:45 felipe [~felipe@unaffiliated/felipe] has joined #lisp 22:13:51 ,@ happens at read time, your macros or functions won't help you 22:15:20 <[SLB]> are there builtin functions as member and assoc that would work for lists instead of atoms? for example to work with something like (member '(1 2) '((1 1) (1 2)))? 22:15:32 :test #'equal 22:15:41 -!- Alexulter [~Alexulter@89-178-178-111.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Client Quit] 22:16:21 <[SLB]> thanks 22:18:53 -!- Triclops256 is now known as Triclops|away 22:19:18 -!- Triclops|away is now known as Tirclops2|away 22:25:06 -!- mgile [~mgile@74-92-220-177-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Parting is such sweet sorrow...] 22:26:11 -!- redscare [~Adium@rle-12-037.mit.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:32:52 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:33:11 BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 22:33:41 -!- madMonkey 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[~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has joined #lisp 23:13:47 -!- Denommus [~user@unaffiliated/denommus] has quit [Changing host] 23:13:47 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus/x-89635553] has joined #lisp 23:16:49 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:20:18 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@69.196.221.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 23:25:25 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-225-105.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:28:46 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:29:17 hygienic macros: overrated? 23:29:31 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:04 work-aroundable 23:32:15 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:32:30 robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:06 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@D-173-250-173-10.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:33:39 "what's that?" 23:34:13 -!- seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:34:45 not programming for years and then jumping back into lisp and using emacs again is a real pain in the ass 23:34:52 I'm so lost, don't remember any emacs bindings anymore :p 23:35:46 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:55 arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:01 fenton [~fenton@ppp-110-168-33-15.revip5.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 23:41:21 -!- jxriddle [~jxriddle@74-132-175-208.dhcp.insightbb.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:41:52 -!- fenton [~fenton@ppp-110-168-33-15.revip5.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 23:41:57 -!- namtsui [~user@c-76-102-34-148.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:42:54 -!- pr [~pr@unaffiliated/pr] has quit 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