00:00:11 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:00:57 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-117-93.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:06:39 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:06:44 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:07:38 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-222-46-130.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:07:38 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 00:08:11 Bike [~Glossina@71-222-46-130.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:52 krsree [~krsree@106.51.143.23] has joined #lisp 00:09:02 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-185-201-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has commenced electric sheep tracking protocol.] 00:14:26 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-222-46-130.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:15:34 Bike [~Glossina@71-222-46-130.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:16 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 00:17:32 -!- Watcher7 is now known as Watcher7|off 00:17:48 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 00:19:28 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:19:45 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:21:01 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:29:22 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-222-46-130.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:29:52 arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:30 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:31:25 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:12 -!- jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:40:00 -!- zacts [~zacts@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:41:23 zacts [~zacts@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #lisp 00:41:31 Corvidium [~cosman246@nat60-100.net.kcls.org] has joined #lisp 00:43:25 -!- ericmathison [~ericmathi@66-192-9-62.static.twtelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:43:38 ericmathison [~ericmathi@66-192-9-62.static.twtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:43 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 00:45:18 jeremyheiler [~jeremyhei@cpe-72-230-245-1.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:47:12 -!- krsree [~krsree@106.51.143.23] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:49:08 -!- Watcher7 [~w@87.98.156.77] has quit [Quit: ded] 00:49:12 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@nat60-100.net.kcls.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:49:45 -!- Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has quit [Quit: Ack! Hans, run! It's the lhurgoyf!] 00:52:19 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 00:54:38 Bike [~Glossina@71-222-46-130.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:19 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-72-66-105-188.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:34 -!- setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@119.201.52.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:58:43 estebistec [~estebiste@72.133.228.205] has joined #lisp 00:59:01 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:02:22 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:57 -!- Jubb [~Jubb@pool-72-66-105-188.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:03:05 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-222-46-130.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:04:23 -!- chturne [~charles@host81-157-142-137.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:07:14 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 01:08:06 -!- ryankarason is now known as rk[boom] 01:09:32 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 01:10:29 -!- Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Quit: Life is too short] 01:11:12 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has commenced electric sheep tracking protocol.] 01:11:16 Is there a way to turn off presentations after they have been loaded? 01:12:56 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 01:13:18 -!- Oberon4278 [~dcrooksto@38.113.0.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:14:39 Watcher7|off [~w@87.98.156.77] has joined #lisp 01:14:49 Xach: Presentations? 01:15:07 slime repl presentations 01:15:37 Oh. 01:15:39 I never used those 01:15:42 Are they useful? 01:16:47 -!- Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:17:43 -!- ericmathison [~ericmathi@66-192-9-62.static.twtelecom.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:17:52 Codynyx [~cody@c-75-72-187-16.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:19:00 I don't find them very useful, but they are part of slime-fancy. I'd like to turn them off without changing my slime setup. 01:20:40 -!- Nisstyre-laptop is now known as Nisstyre 01:20:43 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 01:21:19 Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-1279267682.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:22:03 Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 01:24:46 -!- tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:25:03 -!- Watcher7 is now known as Watcher7|off 01:26:20 -!- bitonic` [~user@90.205.181.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:28:18 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 01:29:26 Guest81853 [~user@113.119.141.122] has joined #lisp 01:30:29 -!- harish [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:31:49 fridim_ [~fridim@65.93.78.88] has joined #lisp 01:32:04 -!- Guest81853 [~user@113.119.141.122] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:32:15 -!- dsevilla [~user@66.Red-79-151-177.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:34:29 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:18 Bike [~Glossina@71-222-46-130.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:26 fenton [~fenton@49.231.97.26] has joined #lisp 01:35:43 Xach: I don't see anything bad in them. Is this about memory consumption? 01:37:01 presentations kind of get in the way of doing things like selecting, copying, etc 01:38:00 Ah, I use evil mode so I don't usually select stuff with mouse. =P 01:38:31 well i usually don't either but sometimes i cannot resist, and i am not sure what evil mode has to do with it 01:39:02 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:39:13 ISF [~ivan@187.106.24.203] has joined #lisp 01:39:49 It adds lots of vim-like things to emacs. Vim allows you to select text with keyborad combinations. 01:40:09 well... so does emacs proper, so, confusion. 01:41:03 CrLF0710 [~user@218.246.107.87] has joined #lisp 01:42:13 Bike: but I still need my fingers! 01:43:20 you don't want beautiful piano fingers that emacs gives you? 01:44:02 hitecnologys: it mixes up the state of my repl sometimes. and i don't use them so i don't want them turned on. 01:44:12 Quadrescence: I'm not musucian. 01:44:20 neither am I! 01:45:22 It's impossible to use emacs unless you have ctrl remapped to ctrl. Why do people still place capslock on place where ctrl or esc should be? 01:45:40 hitecnologys: "people" don't use either control nor caps lock 01:46:08 loke: anyway, I can't understand why capslock is better than holding shift. 01:46:21 hitecnologys: it 01:46:27 Actually, it's better, yeah. For cchanging layouts. 01:46:37 hitecnologys: it's a holdover from the bad old days (mechanical typewriters) 01:46:43 s/cchanging/changing/ 01:47:03 hitecnologys: also, in my business, some users tend to have caps lock on all the time. In finance, there is a lot of uppercasing going on 01:48:16 I'm pretty sure big companies can make special keyborads with capslock and remove it from normal ones. 01:48:30 hitecnologys: you think wrong 01:49:18 loke: how's the spec wrestling going? 01:49:22 hitecnologys: it's easier to just keep doing what they've done so far (i.e. keep the keyboard layouts). We are unfortunately a very minor minority, and most of us already remap caps lock to control 01:49:23 are you a texpert now? 01:49:44 Xach: Well, I was messing with it on my vacation. I'm back now and haven't touched it in a couple of weeks 01:49:46 whatever, I just remap it every time I reinstall my OS. 01:49:51 Will look in to it again soon 01:50:11 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.147.140.40] has joined #lisp 01:50:13 Xach: I know TeX pretty well, but this has nothing to do with TeX. :-) 01:50:35 At least I tokenised everything and I can extract the major sections 01:50:47 My goal is to create a single sexp from the entire spec 01:51:01 Oh, I'm learning TeX too now. It's going well, I know what does {\latex} mean. 01:51:02 wow 01:51:03 theseb [~cs@74.194.237.26] has joined #lisp 01:51:15 loke: i thought it had something to do with tex. what does it have something to do with? 01:52:17 newbie question....function invocation (A B C ...)....I know A must be a *function* but can it also be *an expression that evaluates to a function*? (This will only work if lisp is guaranteed to ALWAYS evaluate the 1st element of a list) 01:52:35 ...rather than ASSUME it is a function 01:52:36 theseb: it can't be in CL, use funcall. 01:52:39 Xach: Oh it does. It's written in TeX. But it could be written in anything. The first thing I do is to extract the relevant stuff and throw away the rest. The only TeX-stuff that remains after that are the math formulas. I intend to keep them as-is though. There are various renderers for it that could be used, for example this one for HTML: 01:52:52 http://www.mathjax.org/ 01:53:09 hitecnologys: thanks! what about in scheme? 01:53:24 theseb: it Scheme you could write ((create function stuff) arguments), but it CL you can't. 01:53:25 -!- ASau [~user@p4FF9759B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:53:40 hitecnologys: i see 01:53:49 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host235.200-117-34.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:53:54 hitecnologys: hmmm...now i'm wondering why CL doesn't allow that 01:54:06 theseb: SICP shows this pretty well, I strongly recommend to read it even if you don't plan to write on Scheme. 01:54:08 hitecnologys: seems it wouldn't be that big deal to evaluate the 1st elem already 01:54:23 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:54:25 hitecnologys: i have SICP right here in front of me 01:54:31 hitecnologys: i just STARTED to read it :) 01:54:47 CL doesn't have one becasue of standard. 01:55:33 hitecnologys: ok....presumably they had their good reasons for not allowing that 01:55:40 For more explainations we have to summon lisp expert ITT. 01:55:50 ((lambda (x) (1+ x)) 4) => 5 01:55:50 ITT? 01:56:01 theseb: in this thread 01:56:13 DataLinkDroid: it's only allowed for lambdas, yes. 01:56:19 theseb: It can't be a function evaluation because of the fact that there are separate namespaces for functions and variables 01:56:50 aha! ok...so it is the collateral damage from using namespaces...ok..thanks for clearing that up 01:56:51 DataLinkDroid: but if you write (let ((func (lambda () 1))) (func)) it will throw an error. 01:57:02 theseb: Consider the following: (defun foo () 1) (let ((foo #'(lambda () 2))) (foo)) what does that return? 01:57:12 loke: and scheme doesn't do namespaces so everything is coming together now 01:57:17 theseb, i would highly recommend using scheme if you are reading SICP 01:57:23 The_third_man: Right 01:57:25 -!- zmyrgel [~zmyrgel@a91-153-150-75.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:57:34 I mean theseb 01:58:03 Quadrescence: my impression is that Scheme is "to learn" and CL is for "real work" with the walls of separation slightly blurred 01:58:35 zmyrgel [~zmyrgel@a91-153-150-75.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 01:58:40 Scheme is clear and nice if you use it wisely. 01:58:44 theseb, that is true to some people but scheme can and has been used for real work, especially if you have a good implementation such as Chicken Scheme or Guile. 01:59:18 Is there any standard for Scheme? 01:59:26 yes there is, and the new one is just being finalized 01:59:27 Quadrescence: yes and i have no doubt one could do a decent programming intro course in CL 01:59:33 they are called R5RS and R7RS 01:59:35 wow, cool 01:59:48 R5RS is currently the most popular, and it's 50 pages long. 02:00:05 Quadrescence: if I was wedded to CL i would simply use a SUBSET in an intro course 02:00:23 CL subset is essentially creating a clean scheme-like core from CL 02:00:38 everyone wins 02:00:58 in an ideal world Scheme would just be a subset of the CL standard 02:01:00 Well, I just got an achievement: 4h of stable wifi connection. 02:01:04 theseb, might as well use scheme if that's your goal, and it's not the # of functions/macros, it's the weird distractions like FLET/FUNCALL/LABELS/DEFVAR/PARAMETER/etc 02:01:34 theseb, and no, in an ideal world, they would be separate 02:02:12 scheme and cl have really different... lots of stuff. 02:02:34 In ideal world there wouldn't be any CL and things, only pure machine instructions. 02:02:58 presumably in the future Scheme will keep its clean core and keep adding more industrial strength libraries....at some point it competes with CL for "real work" and wins 02:03:16 then Scheme becomes the new "common" lisp 02:03:20 theseb, Chicken Scheme or Guile or Racket already compete with Common Lisp. 02:04:50 Chicken Scheme, especially, adopts the good pieces of Common Lisp, and includes them cleanly. 02:05:07 clos? 02:05:34 Bike, there is TinyCLOS and COOPS, which are CLOS-like. I can't say how closely they follow the standard. 02:06:23 It's quite easy to write a copy of CL CLOS for Scheme, CLOS is not that complicated. 02:06:34 Haha 02:06:38 I think CLOS is pretty complicated. :S 02:06:47 Not like sbcl. 02:06:57 ASau [~user@p4FF9759B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 02:08:16 Bike, http://wiki.call-cc.org/eggref/4/coops 02:08:26 Quadrescence: wait...if Scheme already has the "real work" potential of CL...then where does CL win? 02:08:46 theseb, it's just different. Scheme and CL aren't really competing. 02:09:02 harish [~harish@119.234.174.41] has joined #lisp 02:09:08 Quadrescence: i'm trying to figure out, besides legacy support, anyone would choose CL over Scheme 02:09:16 why* 02:09:19 CL is generally more portable across implementations. (But it won't remain portable for sufficiently advanced applications.) 02:09:31 Oberon4278 [~dcrooksto@209-6-246-54.c3-0.wrx-ubr1.sbo-wrx.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 02:09:44 It has a lot more built in. Its standard is older and some people like that. It has good emacs support. 02:10:26 make-class is a macro, huh... 02:10:46 Bike, a bit odd :) 02:11:04 (the naming) 02:11:13 theseb: scheme has a reputation for varying massively across implementations, making writing portably difficult. i don't know if it's warranted. 02:11:28 Bike, it's definitely true. 02:11:54 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 02:11:55 Bike: now that is odd.....considering Scheme has this nice standard they keep updating religiously 02:11:58 R7RS small/big standards should solve that a lot since they standardize lots of the unportable things. 02:12:03 Bike: and disappointing for schemers 02:12:19 theseb, If you stick to the Scheme standard, it's generally portable. 02:12:26 theseb: r5rs does not have much in it. 02:12:30 But people want to do more than what the standard specifies, like modules, OO, etc. 02:12:46 ah 02:12:50 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 02:13:42 CL can have that problem too. There's no standard networking stuff, no standard MOP (but somewhat alleviated by closer-mop), no standard multiprocessing (but somewhat alleviated by bordeaux-threads), etc 02:13:49 Starting with 6, RxRS's look like industrial standards 02:13:55 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:13:57 R6RS should be ignored. 02:14:27 R7RS-small remains true to the Scheme name. But they also have a strict superset, R7RS-big which includes the more "industrial" features that have previously been non-standard. 02:14:53 Oh, that's nice. 02:15:29 And I see this as "mistakes finally get corrected in a future version" :) 02:17:15 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.147.140.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:18:13 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:19:39 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 02:22:06 -!- harish [~harish@119.234.174.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:24:37 is it just me, or is there no library for common lisp that's just a collection of different kinds of sorts? 02:24:47 -!- ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:25:29 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-72-66-105-188.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:25:29 ZombieChicken [~weechat@unaffiliated/forgottenwizard] has joined #lisp 02:26:24 *dlowe* should release his collection. 02:26:41 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@89-178-158-95.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:28:36 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 02:31:15 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 02:36:48 Myk267 [~myk@unaffiliated/myk267] has joined #lisp 02:37:19 harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-sivlqadycrhxixox] has joined #lisp 02:38:49 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.171.221.131] has joined #lisp 02:40:02 michaeljmcd [~michael@ip70-178-95-137.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:11 rationalrevolt [~rationalr@ool-4579bc0f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:41:06 setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@119.201.52.138] has joined #lisp 02:41:14 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 02:43:07 -!- Watcher7 is now known as Watcher7|off 02:50:14 redSnow [~Thunderbi@112.96.168.64] has joined #lisp 02:50:41 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@101.171.221.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:51:22 Triclops256 [~Triclops2@Powder/Developer/Triclops200] has joined #lisp 02:55:38 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.31.12] has joined #lisp 02:57:25 -!- davazp [~user@187.Red-88-8-246.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:00:04 Does anyone have thoughts about a "compile time system": an ASDF system that gets used only at compile time, but at run time, it's not needed and so it's "uninstalled" by then? 03:00:07 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 03:00:52 (noob question:) can CL really be staged like that? 03:01:15 i think so if you do your bookkeeping right 03:01:30 delete-package? 03:01:38 What I am thinking about doing is loading an ASDF system, generating some code at compile time, and somehow unloading it (deleting packages? i'm not sure) 03:01:42 oops, bold 03:02:19 -!- redSnow [~Thunderbi@112.96.168.64] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:03:41 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 03:09:27 -!- zacts [~zacts@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:10:46 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:11:42 does anyone know if quickutil is on its way into quicklisp? 03:12:16 DataLinkDroid, it will be when the API is finalized 03:12:40 that's good. it certainly looks cool :) 03:12:49 I was thinking it'd be in the next release, but after some discussions, I'm not so sure anymore. (see https://github.com/tarballs-are-good/quickutil/issues/19 for such discussion) 03:13:22 Of course it can be cumbersomely downloaded and put somewhere Quicklisp can see it, if you want to try it out. 03:14:31 My fear of getting it in Quicklisp is that it might vastly change by the second release of it, which users typically don't like. It'd be ideal to get it mostly right the first time. :) 03:15:41 Quad: Are you familiar with 'tree shaking'? 03:15:42 barglfargl [~brglfrgl@66-168-203-39.dhcp.gsvl.ga.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:15:51 Yes. 03:16:39 Quadrescence: I'm having a look at that link 03:19:12 -!- rationalrevolt [~rationalr@ool-4579bc0f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: rationalrevolt] 03:19:45 -!- Oberon4278 is now known as Oberon_IsA_Geek 03:20:07 DataLinkDroid, have you been able to install and use the client? 03:20:47 cdidd [~cdidd@176.14.150.186] has joined #lisp 03:20:56 labels is to flet as ? is to let 03:21:48 rk[boom], let* very roughly corresponds to let in that way. But there isn't an answer to such an analogy. What does it mean to have mutually dependent, non-function values? 03:22:15 Quadrescence: I'm sure I'm able to, but have only just finished reading about it... :) I'm at work, but will probably try it out on my personal stuff at home first. 03:22:49 DataLinkDroid, well, if you need help installing, let me know. You just need to unzip the directly somewhere, and tell your lisp where it is. At that point you can just quickload it 03:23:16 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.60.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:23:17 Quadrescence: well labels allow you to create a local function which can refer to itself or any function in the labels list. how to create a local paramter that you can refer to a previous local paramter ? 03:23:27 let* 03:23:38 hmm, maybe i mispelled 03:23:38 yeah, i can just put it with the rest of my local projects 03:23:51 rk[boom], (let* ((x 1) (y (1+ x))) (+ x y)) 03:23:54 DataLinkDroid, right 03:24:15 ~/quicklisp/local-projects is a GOOD place, though 03:24:39 k0001 [~k0001@host153.186-109-104.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 03:25:07 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 03:25:13 Quadrescence: for some reason what i wrote is failing. 03:25:30 i should probably write in a text editor and load into interpreter to make sure i am matching things 03:25:35 -!- barglfargl [~brglfrgl@66-168-203-39.dhcp.gsvl.ga.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:25:49 oh wait let* != let 03:26:13 Quadrescence: THANK YOU! 03:26:18 you're welcome 03:27:42 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:28:04 victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:3686:aac0:a8df:5a3:fbb6:d224] has joined #lisp 03:30:08 -!- __main__ [~main@50.240.201.241] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:30:13 redSnow [~Thunderbi@112.96.168.64] has joined #lisp 03:31:20 __main__ [~main@50.240.201.241] has joined #lisp 03:32:02 -!- estebistec [~estebiste@72.133.228.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:32:43 estebistec [~estebiste@72.133.228.205] has joined #lisp 03:37:41 -!- estebistec [~estebiste@72.133.228.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:38:55 estebistec [~estebiste@72.133.228.205] has joined #lisp 03:39:55 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.60.238] has joined #lisp 03:42:58 -!- Triclops256 is now known as Triclops256|away 03:43:42 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 03:44:43 Quadrescence: finally got to the end of the issue thread. funny how the conceptually simple can turn out to have all sorts of practical problems to overcome. 03:45:31 Quadrescence: i guess that is also the reason you were asking here about unloading stuff 03:45:56 Yes, I was wondering if it's a practical pursuit. I think it possibly is, and am prototyping something now. 03:47:07 Quadrescence: re qtlc: warning: it's going to grow to be as big as one (Quetzalcoatlus) lol 03:49:38 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Bed-time...? o/] 03:50:27 :))) 03:51:43 -!- setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@119.201.52.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 03:52:38 -!- redSnow [~Thunderbi@112.96.168.64] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:57:58 -!- breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 03:59:54 My problem now: If system A depends-on B, I want an operation to occur after A is loaded, but I want that operation specified along with system B, which doens't know about A. 04:03:05 rationalrevolt [~rationalr@ool-4579bc0f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:09:43 -!- fenton [~fenton@49.231.97.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:10:24 -!- syrinx_ [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:11:07 doomlord [~doomlod@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 04:12:34 Why do you want that operation specified along with system B? 04:14:15 Zhivago, the use case is what I described previously. If someone is consuming my library, I would like to temporarily use a package during compile-time, and delete the package after compilation is finished. That is, once A is done compiling, I want components of B to get deleted. But I don't want it to be the responsibility of every consumer of the library (i.e., of A) to make sure B gets deleted. 04:14:37 -!- rationalrevolt [~rationalr@ool-4579bc0f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: rationalrevolt] 04:15:04 Well, you're building a graph -- wouldn't that hang off an edge from A to B, rather than on A or B? 04:17:11 I believe so yes, and what happens during "edge traversals" are ASDF operations, e.g. compile-op and load-op. The closest thing I think there is, is the operation "parent-load-op" 04:18:42 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:19:21 rationalrevolt_ [~rationalr@ool-4579bc0f.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:24:15 fenton [~fenton@49.231.97.213] has joined #lisp 04:26:32 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:27:06 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 04:27:30 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 04:29:36 -!- rationalrevolt_ [~rationalr@ool-4579bc0f.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: rationalrevolt_] 04:30:25 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.31.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:30:51 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-151-128.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 04:32:22 kpreid_ [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 04:33:32 -!- doomlord 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[~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:30:57 -!- stardiviner_ [~quassel@122.236.243.119] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:35:23 zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has joined #lisp 06:38:44 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:39:32 -!- mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:43:22 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@123.208.242.69] has quit [Quit: Bye] 06:46:15 zRecursi` [~czsq888@171.216.98.20] has joined #lisp 06:47:13 hkBst [~marijn@80.120.175.18] has joined #lisp 06:47:13 -!- hkBst [~marijn@80.120.175.18] has quit [Changing host] 06:47:13 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 06:49:13 chr [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 06:50:12 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@171.216.98.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:50:51 Good morning, any links to tutorials/blog posts on using auxillary tables for attributes specific to a subset of elements? I guess my data insertion could be more elegant... 06:51:48 *chr* should talk in #postgres, sorry guys. 06:52:30 -!- Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-1279267682.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:53:03 -!- milosn_ [~milosn@user-5af507ad.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:54:25 zophy_ [~sy@host-30-23-2-96.midco.net] has joined #lisp 06:55:29 doomlord [~doomlod@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 06:55:57 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-xamioumdvcmrbake] has joined #lisp 06:56:22 edgar-rft [~GOD@HSI-KBW-149-172-63-75.hsi13.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 06:57:32 -!- zophy [~sy@host-30-23-2-96.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:01:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.218.138.60] has joined #lisp 07:01:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.218.138.60] has quit [Changing host] 07:01:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:02:42 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:08:30 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:08:48 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 07:09:15 drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 07:09:48 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 07:10:59 jack_rabbit [~kyle@c-98-253-60-75.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:13:51 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:15:06 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:16:36 -!- zRecursi` [~czsq888@171.216.98.20] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:17:11 kiuma [~kiuma@78-134-82-178.v4.ngi.it] has joined #lisp 07:18:47 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-77-150.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:19:56 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.149.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 07:19:56 -!- Watcher7 [~w@87.98.156.77] has quit [Quit: ded] 07:20:08 Watcher7 [~w@silly.tabby.cat] has joined #lisp 07:21:33 Teratogen [leontopod@unaffiliated/teratogen] has joined #lisp 07:22:38 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-222-46-130.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:24:01 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 07:26:45 -!- jeremyheiler [~jeremyhei@cpe-72-230-245-1.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 07:28:01 naryl [~weechat@46.182.24.168] has joined #lisp 07:28:55 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 07:31:52 -!- ASau [~user@p4FF9759B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:34:59 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-147-162.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:35:38 agumonkey [~agu@194.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 07:35:45 ASau [~user@p4FF9759B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:38:21 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754b85.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:38:21 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:38:32 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:38:48 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:39:12 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 07:40:56 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:41:32 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:42:28 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@95-24-242-52.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:43:40 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 07:44:08 jewel [~jewel@105-236-178-139.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:45:19 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:45:35 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.106.192] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:45:44 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754b85.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 07:49:50 DELETE-PACKAGE is not sufficient to actually clean up symbols and their definitions, I believe. (That is, free available memory.) Is there a way to delete a package and clean up anything that was defined in it? 07:50:58 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:51:06 s/available/what-should-now-be-available/ 07:51:09 nha_ [~prefect@koln-4d0dc20e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:51:39 milosn [~milosn@user-5af507ad.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 07:51:42 pavelpenev [~quassel@85.130.70.65] has joined #lisp 07:52:33 codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has joined #lisp 07:53:00 shouldn't garbage collection eventually reclaim all the stuff that is no longer accessible? 07:53:19 ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-226-213.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:53:22 no. consider for instance defined methods 07:53:36 that's not particularly package related, though 07:53:51 -!- stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.243.119] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:54:31 Quadrescence: but in general, there is no way to do that. if you want to, you have to do the bookkeeping yourself, and then clean up whatever you have there. 07:55:05 pierpa [~user@host204-228-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 07:55:07 bitonic` [~user@90.205.181.109] has joined #lisp 07:56:01 -!- milosn [~milosn@user-5af507ad.broadband.tesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 07:58:47 jdz, Even in this case, the memory will not be freed? http://paste.lisp.org/display/137910 07:58:56 My initial tests say it's not getting freed. 07:59:47 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:59:57 interesting. even after triggering a gc? 08:00:19 doomlord [~doomlod@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 08:00:21 -!- nha_ [~prefect@koln-4d0dc20e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 261 seconds] 08:00:29 Quadrescence: it should. are you sure you're not keeping a reference to the symbol in your REPL? 08:00:30 with the extra quote of course after the delete-package 08:00:53 jdz, maybe I am, let me double check 08:01:05 try without SLIME 08:01:30 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-178-139.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:02:26 milosn [~milosn@user-5af507ad.broadband.tesco.net] has joined #lisp 08:02:26 Quadrescence: for a better test (more controllable), you could use MAKE-PACKAGE and INTERN 08:03:05 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-26-159-207.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 08:04:38 here's non-slime: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137910#1 08:04:45 killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has joined #lisp 08:07:24 peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has joined #lisp 08:08:05 -!- ASau [~user@p4FF9759B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:10:36 Quadrescence: I'm not sure it's a very good test... you may want to try calling gc more times 08:10:36 Quadrescence: not in SBCL, no. 08:11:16 ASau [~user@p4FF9759B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:11:22 Quadrescence: at the point you call sb-ext:gc, you still have the symbol in *** 08:11:29 -!- zophy_ [~sy@host-30-23-2-96.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:11:46 jdz, i evaluated '1' 10 times, and it still didn't do it 08:12:30 Quadrescence: makunbound before delete-package might be good enough for you (assuming the symbol isn't referenced by live functions) 08:12:53 [well, even if it is, never mind] 08:13:57 pkhuong, well that was just a small test case. I was hoping there would be some magic that Did The Right Thing (for whatever value of "Right"), because I'd like to avoid bookkeeping 100s of symbols 08:14:25 Quadrescence: do-symbols. 08:15:45 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:15:58 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-sivlqadycrhxixox] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:15:59 pkhuong, is the memory still pegged by something? What's keeping it from being freed? 08:16:02 (in SBCL) 08:16:40 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:17:04 infodb is my guess. Making that thing weak on key (fsvo key) would be a nice project ;) 08:17:45 ;) 08:19:38 Joreji [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 08:19:48 ffilozov [~user@186.6.22.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 08:24:08 Quadrescence: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137910#2 08:27:12 on a second thought, i don't think it's generation related 08:28:20 I have a list like this (1 2 ... N) and I need to print it to string like this "1 2 ... SOME-CUSTOM-STUFF N". Is this possible with only format? (format nil "~{~A ~}STUFF~A" (butlast list) (last list)) looks pretty ugly and inefficient. 08:29:14 hi Quadrescence :) 08:29:32 fe[nl]ix, hey 08:30:09 -!- Joreji [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:30:21 Joreji [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 08:31:35 here's code for pkhuong's suggestion, which seems to work: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137910#3 08:32:23 hitecnologys, (last list) is also wrong, you want (first (last list)) 08:32:46 Quadrescence: ah, yeah, it was just an example. 08:32:48 hitecnologys, I suggest writing a recursive loop. that would be the clearest to me. 08:33:00 Quadrescence: and concatenate? 08:33:24 hitecnologys, how much is efficiency a concern? 08:34:30 Quadrescence: not that much to count processor ticks, but (coerce (coerce (coerce (list #\H #\e #\l #\l #\o) 'string) 'list) 'string) isn't good. 08:35:21 hitecnologys, if you don't mind performance too much, then sure, you can concatenate each loop 08:36:47 Quadrescence: anyway, that isn't solution because I didn't find out anything new. I'm supposed to learn something from each question I ask. 08:37:09 how would you write the recursive solution? 08:38:32 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 08:39:36 (defun make-chain (list) (if (> 2 (length list)) (format nil "> ~A" (write-to-string (first list))) (concatenate 'string (write-to-string (first list)) (make-chain (rest list))))) 08:40:27 But I'm pretty sure I can do this better if I think more. 08:40:28 hitecnologys: could use mapl and with-output-to-string 08:41:50 hitecnologys, there is a better way to write that 08:43:10 doomlord [~doomlod@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 08:45:01 (with-output-to-string (result) (mapl #'(lambda (list) (unless (cdr list) (princ "> " result)) (princ (first list) result)))), probably the best I can write 08:45:14 -!- Watcher7 is now known as Watcher7|off 08:45:25 doomlord_ [~servitor@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 08:45:35 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:45:46 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-77-150.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:46:05 how time-consuming do you think it would be to add perl's "branch reset" pattern -- (?|pattern) -- to cl-ppcre? (try "man perlre" for details) 08:47:32 hitecnologys: (format nil "~{~@{~A~1,#^ ~} STUFF ~A~}" '(1 2 3 4)) 08:47:35 easy! 08:48:26 hitecnologys: could also use loop ;) 08:48:39 adeht: yeah, I already figured that out. 08:49:05 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@99-136-83-34.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:49:18 stassats: thanks a lot. All magic is in ~1,#^, right? 08:49:24 yes 08:49:33 what an unreadable mess 08:49:46 Quadrescence: you just can't read format! 08:49:47 Joreji_ [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 08:49:54 it's short and elegant 08:50:00 uh huh 08:50:05 weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 08:50:19 Guest48189 [~michealyx@218.74.36.10] has joined #lisp 08:50:41 -!- Joreji [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:50:48 -!- Guest48189 [~michealyx@218.74.36.10] has left #lisp 08:50:48 I still can't understand why do you need to nest ~@{ loop inside ~{ to make things work. Is this some kind of special construction? 08:50:50 Joreji [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 08:51:08 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:51:19 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:51:25 it doesn't work in some cases.. e.g., (1) 08:51:45 adeht: add ~^ before stuff 08:51:49 harish [~harish@203.117.38.130] has joined #lisp 08:52:23 stassats: I try to stay away from complex format strings ;) 08:52:24 hitecnologys: @ maeks { to use the elements at the same level 08:52:46 i.e. (format t "~@{~a~}" 1 2 3) vs (format t "~{~a~}" '(1 2 3)) 08:52:59 stassats: oh, I see 08:53:02 so, you need to use @ inside ~{, because it already "entered" into the list 08:53:29 stassats: btw it's still adds a space after the 1 08:54:03 Ok, thanks you a lot guys. 08:55:23 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:55:34 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has left #lisp 08:55:50 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 08:56:01 rudi_ [~rudi@1x-193-157-247-189.uio.no] has joined #lisp 08:57:42 setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@119.201.52.138] has joined #lisp 08:57:55 adeht: "~{~@{~A~#,1,1^ ~}~^ STUFF ~A~}" 08:58:02 easy! 08:58:32 -!- rudi_ is now known as rudi 08:59:02 I can't find ~1, ~#, etc definitions in clhs. Could someone give me some clues? 08:59:30 -!- stassats changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: SBCL 1.1.9, CFFI 0.11.2 08:59:46 1 and # are just parameters 08:59:57 # has a special meaning 08:59:58 clhs 22.3 08:59:58 Formatted Output: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/22_c.htm 09:00:47 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.149.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:01:00 Beetny_ [~Beetny@ppp118-208-52-205.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:01:30 Oh, thanks a lot again. 09:02:11 ~#,1,1^ means stop iterating if the number of remaining elements in a list is less than 1 09:03:16 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-147-162.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:03:16 -!- Beetny_ is now known as Beetny 09:03:27 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has joined #lisp 09:04:29 and yesterday i discovered that ~^ also works for ~(, which is a bit strange 09:05:13 only if you pass an arbitrary number of arguments to the format string 09:08:37 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:15:57 -!- 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[~jdz@85.254.212.34] has joined #lisp 09:39:23 Tarential [~Tarential@li421-205.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 09:39:38 ered [~ered@75-101-56-39.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 09:39:42 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 09:40:25 mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 09:41:01 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 09:45:32 Joreji [~thomas@178-055.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 09:46:00 One more question: how can I place parameter in the middle of ~{~}, I mean what if I need to pass v to ~T inside loop? Concatenate format string? 09:46:54 arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 09:47:11 in general, you can't 09:47:24 l_a_m [~l_a_m@94.124.130.19] has joined #lisp 09:47:41 you can make the list contain the necessary argument 09:49:18 Ok, thanks. 09:49:38 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 09:49:55 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 09:54:53 -!- easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:55:21 easye [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 09:55:44 -!- aoh_ is now known as aoh 09:55:56 -!- aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has quit [Changing host] 09:55:56 aoh [~aki@unaffiliated/aoh] has joined #lisp 09:56:24 (you can't make up a format-string, because it can include format directives) 09:56:29 newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has joined #lisp 09:57:25 -!- fenton [~fenton@49.231.101.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:58:57 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:00:56 sbcl now has asdf 3.0.2 (are we conservative or what?) 10:06:10 Thra11 [~Thra11@109.110.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:22 xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-yftodgjlnwkqmrbe] has joined #lisp 10:06:23 BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 10:07:48 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:08:15 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 10:10:12 -!- bitonic` is now known as bitonic 10:10:23 fenton [~fenton@49.231.103.123] has joined #lisp 10:12:43 ugh. time to unfuck my programs, then. 10:14:06 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 10:15:38 rking1 [~rking@unaffiliated/rking] has joined #lisp 10:15:53 -!- rking1 [~rking@unaffiliated/rking] has quit [Client Quit] 10:17:09 *stassats* expects asdf 3.0.3 to surface in the next hour with a critical issue 10:19:36 Xach: or to complain loudly :-/ 10:19:51 it is deliberately early in the month to see what the pushback is this time 10:20:12 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 10:20:34 jewel [~jewel@105-236-178-139.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:21:46 or that would be too easy, i expect the issue with asdf to surface an hour after 1.10 is released 10:21:57 s/the/an/ 10:22:28 Krystof: For a while I treated ASDF as an unchanging thing & frobbed internals. Time to update. 10:22:44 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-77-150.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:22:48 *Xach* has some free time today 10:23:26 i treated asdf like plague and avoided using it, except inside .asd 10:23:50 and even inside .asd, without using any of the fancy features 10:24:06 consequently, i've been spared by asdf updates breaking my things 10:24:32 -!- harish [~harish@203.117.38.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:25:28 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-178-139.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:25:54 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:26:23 -!- ASau [~user@p4FF9759B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:31:04 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:31:53 -!- ffilozov [~user@186.6.22.95.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:32:53 ASau [~user@p4FF9759B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:35:38 -!- Harag [~Thunderbi@41-135-132-52.dsl.mweb.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:36:37 -!- Dalek_Baldwin [~Adium@71-84-34-33.dhcp.mtpk.ca.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:41:04 -!- mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:42:57 -!- redSnow [~Thunderbi@112.96.168.64] has quit [Quit: redSnow] 10:43:08 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 10:47:28 -!- bitonic [~user@90.205.181.109] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:47:53 bitonic [~user@90.205.181.109] has joined #lisp 10:48:01 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 10:48:22 smugmeter pegging 10:49:07 (incidentally, that doesn't help when your dependencies are broken by asdf) 10:49:12 no escape from misery! 10:50:20 -!- bitonic [~user@90.205.181.109] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:50:32 zRecursive [~czsq888@110.188.69.98] has joined #lisp 10:51:21 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:58:03 only in the sweet release of gc 10:59:44 NickLevine [~chatzilla@ravenbrook.nsdsl.net] has joined #lisp 11:00:04 -!- CrLF0710` [~user@218.246.107.87] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:07:09 nialo- [~yaaic@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 11:07:22 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.60.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:09:11 nabax [~nabax@84.88.33.150] has joined #lisp 11:09:54 hi, does anyone know what the "p" stands for in oddp or evenp? 11:10:08 "predicate" 11:10:22 p_l, thanks :) 11:10:32 more "modern" equivalent would be "odd?" and "even?" 11:12:08 -!- codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:12:42 -!- yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:15:02 modern like mlisp 11:15:45 like scheme? 11:15:45 Consider: cons vs consp, list vs listp 11:17:06 They might have gone for cons? list? happy-today? -- but it turns out they didn't 11:17:38 scheme is "modern"? 11:17:48 i find it rather baroque, but that is just me. 11:22:24 hi NickLevine 11:22:46 hiya fe[nl]ix 11:23:59 hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.60.238] has joined #lisp 11:25:30 -!- aeth_ is now known as aeth 11:29:41 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@110.188.69.98] has left #lisp 11:32:44 Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 11:34:42 -!- krsree [~sreekumar@125.16.89.134] has left #lisp 11:35:11 inkjetunito [~hf999@unaffiliated/inkjetunit] has joined #lisp 11:36:18 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-77-150.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:38:30 -!- agumonkey [~agu@194.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:40:50 is sbcl faster than gnu clisp? 11:41:01 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 11:41:40 Not to start up, I suspect. 11:41:47 peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has joined #lisp 11:42:21 ok. thanks 11:46:29 davazp [~user@187.Red-88-8-246.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:48:58 <|3b|> sbcl can generate pretty fast code, but has one of the slower compilers 11:53:57 "cons?" makes it hard to talk about 11:55:51 Just raise an eyebrow. 11:55:54 -!- walter [~walter@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:56:07 Zhivago: and on irc? 11:56:24 is "irc?" a predicate? 11:56:33 wut u tlkn abort on irc? 11:56:53 I suspect that it causes almost no problems in text. 11:56:57 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.119.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:57:00 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.149.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 11:57:07 if you quote it 11:57:10 But you could ask #scheme about it. 11:57:12 *|3b|* failed to parse the ""cons?" makes it hard to talk about" line, even quoted 11:57:13 codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has joined #lisp 11:57:26 i experienced confusion many times 11:57:27 <|3b|> initially read it as quoting a question 11:57:27 or just use punctuation consistently. Is that irc?? 11:58:07 but what if you're not making a question? 11:58:16 That is irc?. 11:58:45 <|3b|> good thing we only talk about predicates at the end of a sentence 11:59:27 |3b|: ? usually ends a sentence, so even if it's in the middle, it'd become two sentences 11:59:36 not all people capitalize everything on irc 11:59:39 <|3b|> stassats: that was my point 11:59:51 is there an efficient way to iterate through a number sequence 1...n? i copy-pasted some generator from stackoverflow but it's very slow. 12:00:11 (loop for i from 1 to n) 12:00:26 thanks 12:01:03 <|3b|> and if you are using gnu clisp, make sure to compile code before benchmarking it (or switch to sbcl) 12:01:07 Amazingly, people seem to manage with parentheses :) 12:01:16 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 12:01:20 It's all just a matter of what you're accustomed to and expect. 12:01:23 (?- (like ?who consp)) => ?who = me. 12:01:34 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has left #lisp 12:01:36 <|3b|> Zhivago: actually, parentheses are annoying too 12:02:46 *|3b|* overuses them, and frequently has to adjust for places where it would be easily confused for code 12:08:30 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-52-205.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:09:47 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:11:23 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-77-150.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:11:48 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:13:52 -!- codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:15:33 -!- davazp [~user@187.Red-88-8-246.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:15:33 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:18:32 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-006-071.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:27:45 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-006-071.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:30:46 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-014-046.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:32:09 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:37:31 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 12:39:31 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:46:01 hajovonta [~user@173.248.133.249] has joined #lisp 12:46:05 hello 12:50:58 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.149.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:51:22 Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192042.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has joined #lisp 12:52:06 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@ool-18bbb124.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:52:21 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 12:56:15 Zhivago: FYI, CLISP startup on my system is more than 2x slower than SBCL. 12:56:35 Xach: ... SSD? 12:56:40 No, an old Sempron. 12:56:48 with a spinning disk. 12:56:56 huh 12:57:01 must be warm cache 12:57:13 SBCL used to be slower, but a few years ago it got faster. 12:57:22 How Warm Was My Cache 12:57:49 Xach: I have observed SBCL load speed be hamstrung not by its own performance, but by the fact that it had to load more data from disk 12:57:56 p_l: how can i encolden my cache to compare that? 12:58:14 Xach: ... I actually forgot at the moment o_O 12:58:37 probably because I don't think my system has the option of dropping caches anymore 12:58:53 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:59:14 usually first time after boot should have cold cache (though there's stuff that might end up preloading SBCL) 12:59:23 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c1b34.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:00:18 Maybe I'll spin up a VM to test it. 13:01:30 Xach: I never really noticed it though till the one time I've got to play with SBCL on a laptop with SSD 13:01:56 and noticed that there was *zero* lag between my finger leaving enter key and SBCL giving me prompt 13:04:34 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 13:08:35 -!- hajovonta [~user@173.248.133.249] has quit [Quit: end of day] 13:10:02 *rudi* recommends ABCL for ye olde multi-second startup times 13:10:46 rudi: Clojure manages worse 13:10:55 but isn't CL 13:13:17 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 13:15:45 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ojmtrjicepwlhdyi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:16:06 zdx0q94 [43c22dde@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.194.45.222] has joined #lisp 13:16:26 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 13:16:40 -!- zdx0q94 [43c22dde@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.194.45.222] has quit [Client Quit] 13:17:19 -!- Joreji [~thomas@178-055.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:22:03 krsree [~krsree@106.51.144.211] has joined #lisp 13:24:23 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 13:29:59 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-162-112.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:31:55 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@089144192042.atnat0001.highway.a1.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 13:32:13 -!- fenton [~fenton@49.231.103.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:33:10 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 13:36:53 davazp [~user@187.Red-88-8-246.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:53 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:42 then try ABCL, I guess 13:41:21 Xach: echo 3 > /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches 13:41:53 that will prune the whole cache though (pagecache, dentries and inodes) 13:42:16 dim: on most systems, yes. And sometimes even then not :/ 13:42:38 (doesn't work at all on mine, since my caches got a case of split-brain syndrome) 13:46:11 hmm. my simple program is still slow, but maybe it's just the (non-fixed) integer keeping it from going faster 13:46:27 There are so many possibilities! 13:46:29 codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has joined #lisp 13:46:36 fenton [~fenton@49.231.99.145] has joined #lisp 13:48:22 -!- davazp [~user@187.Red-88-8-246.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:49:18 protist [~protist@80.172.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 13:56:29 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.149.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 13:58:17 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 13:59:55 -!- hitecnologys [~hitecnolo@109.120.60.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:59:59 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 14:03:18 -!- rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-247-189.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Client exciting.] 14:04:33 -!- michaelj1cd [~michael@ip70-178-95-137.ks.ks.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:05:17 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:07:28 michaeljmcd [~michael@ip70-178-95-137.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:45 -!- codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:08:37 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-77-150.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:09:33 inkjetunito: what does your program do? 14:10:01 paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has joined #lisp 14:10:02 tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has joined #lisp 14:11:48 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 14:12:03 jeremyheiler [~jeremyhei@cpe-72-230-245-1.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:13:09 teggi [~teggi@123.20.119.146] has joined #lisp 14:14:10 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:18:30 -!- Oberon_IsA_Geek [~dcrooksto@209-6-246-54.c3-0.wrx-ubr1.sbo-wrx.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:20:30 -!- michaeljmcd [~michael@ip70-178-95-137.ks.ks.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:20:49 codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has joined #lisp 14:22:46 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:28:31 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:29 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-yftodgjlnwkqmrbe] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:30:18 ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has joined #lisp 14:31:23 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:31:52 paradoja [~paradoja@85.Red-213-4-35.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:32:24 -!- krsree [~krsree@106.51.144.211] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:37:25 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.149.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:40:32 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 14:40:47 *Xach* is so excited to install bzr and hg and darcs for quicklisp updates! 14:42:25 _d3f [~gnu@94.242.252.66] has joined #lisp 14:45:27 -!- nabax [~nabax@84.88.33.150] has left #lisp 14:46:34 CrazyEddy [~presswoma@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 14:47:04 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-77-150.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:47:43 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:48:06 -!- CrazyEddy [~presswoma@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 14:48:18 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:48:39 BitPuffin_ [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 14:48:50 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 14:48:58 CrazyEddy [~chylific@113.52.233.162] has joined #lisp 14:49:37 -!- CrazyEddy [~chylific@113.52.233.162] has quit [Changing host] 14:49:37 CrazyEddy [~chylific@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 14:50:05 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:50:21 joast [~rick@76.178.135.192] has joined #lisp 14:51:23 eerlkrc4 [~eerlkrc4@183.39.27.61] has joined #lisp 14:52:37 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:56:41 -!- Watcher7|off is now known as Watcher7 14:57:46 yati [~yati@122.169.64.236] has joined #lisp 14:58:04 syrinx [~quassel@ip68-1-175-223.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:07 -!- syrinx [~quassel@ip68-1-175-223.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:58:07 syrinx [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 14:58:38 -!- syrinx is now known as syrinxHupUSA 14:58:41 przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has joined #lisp 14:59:17 -!- BitPuffin_ is now known as BitPuffin 15:03:25 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 15:03:45 -!- eerlkrc4 [~eerlkrc4@183.39.27.61] has quit [] 15:04:05 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:04:15 yati_ [~yati@122.169.94.179] has joined #lisp 15:04:18 -!- yati [~yati@122.169.64.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:04:19 -!- yati_ is now known as yati 15:04:30 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 15:06:14 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 15:07:49 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-41-40.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:07:54 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:06 -!- fenton [~fenton@49.231.99.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:14:24 What's the proper way to eval something after a system :S is loaded? I've tried (defmethod operate :after ((o load-op) (s (eql (find-system :S))) &key &allow-other-keys) ), but it didn't seem to get triggered 15:15:08 estebistec [~estebiste@72.133.228.205] has joined #lisp 15:16:17 the proper way is to make a system which depends on the former and put your code inside 15:16:53 <|3b|> how do you do that when :s is loaded as a dependency of something else? 15:17:01 k0001 [~k0001@host153.186-109-104.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 15:17:02 *|3b|* was wondering the same thing recently 15:17:25 don't monkey-patch ASDF 15:18:37 *|3b|* doesn't see how that solves the problem 15:19:45 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:19:55 I'm not sure what the problem is 15:20:34 <|3b|> wanting to evaluate code when a specific system is loaded 15:20:43 <|3b|> (or immediately if it is already loaded) 15:21:00 why do you want that ? 15:21:33 |3b|, I think fe[nl]ix is suggesting to make a shell system, which the user loads, which contains a file that does the post-work, and then :depends-on your main system. Maybe I'm wrong. 15:21:38 <|3b|> last time, it was due to wanting to add a library search path to cffi, without loading cffi in my rc files 15:22:08 |3b|: similar for me 15:22:12 I personally need to do what |3b| is suggesting because I want to do some clean-up stuff after compilation. 15:22:18 Quadrescence: that's correct 15:22:53 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 15:22:54 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 15:22:54 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 15:23:08 <|3b|> or better, add the library path before loading the specific system that loads the library 15:23:36 fenton [~fenton@49.231.113.51] has joined #lisp 15:23:43 (defmethod perform :after ((op load-op) (system (eql (find-system "frob")))) ...) ?? 15:23:55 that is what I said above 15:24:04 it may or may not be a design issue, but with ASDF one only specifies pre-constraints not post-constraints 15:24:18 Ah, so it is (almost) 15:24:37 but I might be doing it wrong, since it doesn't appear to do what I mean :D 15:25:22 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 15:25:39 How not? 15:25:43 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:26:03 arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:18 in ASDF3 perform no longer works what way 15:26:27 Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 15:28:24 Yah, that rings a bell. There's some new official way of doing it 15:28:36 maybe 15:30:01 hmm 15:30:07 it works here 15:30:30 (defmethod asdf:perform :after ((op asdf:load-op) (system (eql (asdf:find-system :alexandria)))) (error "HAHAHA")) 15:31:32 Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has joined #lisp 15:31:51 the doc (section 5.2) suggests this is still OK 15:32:27 i will try again 15:32:29 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 15:33:32 fe[nl]ix, did you do &key &allow-other-keys ? 15:33:49 no, I evaluated exactly what I pasted 15:34:25 zophy_ [~sy@host-30-23-2-96.midco.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:41 maybe it's because this is ASDF 2.26 :S 15:35:01 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-41-40.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:35:35 I'm on sbcl-1.1.9-1-gb4fa259, with stassats's merge of 3.0.2 15:36:17 I get an incongruency error. 15:37:23 -!- antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-105-245.tor.primus.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:40:30 michaeljmcd [~michael@ip70-178-95-137.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:40:37 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:43:23 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-77-150.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:45:58 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@d50-92-237-119.bchsia.telus.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:46:18 just so I maintain sanity, if a defsystem form, :depends-on ("x") :serial t :components ((:file "f")), "f" should not be read until "x" is loaded, yes? 15:46:28 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:48:03 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:48:28 bitonic [~user@90.205.181.109] has joined #lisp 15:48:32 that's correct 15:50:13 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 15:50:18 okay, good, I thought it wasn't doing that but it turned out I did something else wrong. 15:51:25 -!- away_sondr3 is now known as sondr3 15:52:14 I'm going to guess using the shell system is going to be more portable across ASDF versions/lisp impls than that defmethod stuff 15:53:16 yes 15:55:16 Hi. Is there any difference between car(cdr) and first(rest) - apart from the fact that the former have a very long history and are meant for cons-cells? 15:56:07 no difference at all 15:56:38 Bike [~Glossina@71-222-46-130.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:39 cool :) first/rest is much readable than car/cdr. 15:56:51 I'm going to use them, hence 15:57:06 quirky to use first/rest when you suspect what you have in your hand is a binary tree rather than a proper list 15:57:56 NickLevine, please elaborate, I'm new. 15:58:19 yati, FIRST/REST are for proper lists. CAR/CDR are for conses. 15:58:56 If you think you're operating on a list, then use FIRST/REST. If you think you're operating on something that is not a list but rather perhaps a collection of conses, use CAR/CDR. 15:59:01 if you have binary trees / general clumps of conses that don't come out as neat lists... 15:59:31 whoa. I used to think conses is what makes up any list! 15:59:32 hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106602ad08e475a.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:32 (like quadrescence just said) 15:59:46 -!- zophy_ [~sy@host-30-23-2-96.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:00:00 But if you _know_ the conses form a list 16:00:11 and not a generalised clump of stuff 16:00:21 then be kind to the reader and use first/ rest 16:00:53 I mean (cons 4 (cons 3 nil)) gives me (4 3). What's an example of a collection of conses that does not give a list? 16:00:53 If on the other hand you've got something that isn't really a list 16:00:55 yati, they do. It's a semantic difference. Lists are just puns. @what NickLevine said 16:01:12 then first/rest confuses the (human) reader 16:01:58 s/@what/and what/ 16:02:47 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-77-150.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:03:24 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:04:01 I'm sorry, but I still don't get it :\ what is an example of a generalized clump of stuff that is not a list in the end? 16:04:13 yati, if you were working on binary trees with a left and right branch, you might have (defun left-branch (tree) (car tree)) (defun right-branch (tree) (cdr tree)). In this case, LEFT/RIGHT-BRANCH are just more readable, and give a hint to the reader that you're operating on something intended to be a binary tree, and not individual conses, even though they're represented as conses. 16:04:24 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 16:04:50 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 16:04:51 Ah 16:04:54 -!- estebistec [~estebiste@72.133.228.205] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:05:39 yati, (cons (cons 1 2) (cons 3 (cons 4 5))) is a tree containing 5 leaves, and none of it are lists 16:05:52 like that. Sorry NickLevine I missed the "human" in parens. I thought you were asking to be kind to the Lisp reader :D 16:05:54 jewel [~jewel@105-236-178-139.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:06:11 no, I'm happy to let that suffer 16:07:10 -!- sondr3 is now known as away_sondr3 16:07:39 NickLevine, I'm giving you a cons-in-the-reader allowance of 5,000 conses/day. 16:08:07 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:08:18 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has left #lisp 16:08:28 Ha! That's why my image crashed then? (I'm sure I'll burn through that much compiling a very small file...) 16:09:03 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@99-136-83-34.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:11:42 maybe that'll teach you to be more respectful to the reader ;) 16:11:42 Oh. now what is this period in between 1, 2 and 4,5 --> ((1 . 2) 3 4 . 5) ? I've only seen conses with the right sides being either NIL or another cons 16:11:55 ^ yeah :D 16:11:55 yati, do (cons 1 2) 16:12:01 I did 16:12:05 (1 . 2) 16:12:09 what is the period? 16:12:11 well that is what a cons looks like 16:12:19 clhs ( 16:12:19 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/02_da.htm 16:12:35 yati, if there was no period, it would be (1 2), but (1 2) means (1 . (2 . nil)) 16:13:01 and it's called "a dot" 16:13:30 So (1 2 3 . 4) is a dotted list 16:13:35 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:15:08 zophy_ [~sy@host-30-23-2-96.midco.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:18 yup. (1 . (2 . (3 . 4))) 16:16:24 yati: you should understand well cons cells to understand lisp lists, since lists are just that 16:17:58 Denommus, Yeah I am trying to :) I am reading through the PCL, and after learning about macros(conses aren't covered yet) I decided to some problems from here: http://www.ic.unicamp.br/~meidanis/courses/mc336/2006s2/funcional/L-99_Ninety-Nine_Lisp_Problems.html 16:18:51 I got stuck with flatten. 16:19:29 Now it's more or less clear. The CLHS is remarkably readable for a spec! 16:19:52 macros are before conses? is that really so? 16:19:57 yeah :) 16:21:03 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:21:12 but nobody stops you from looking ahead 16:21:13 I'm enjoying this book like anything. Last chapter was building a unit-test framework which opened my eyes to how powerful can macros be. 16:21:17 -!- codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:21:19 stassats, right :) 16:21:42 -!- zophy_ [~sy@host-30-23-2-96.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:23:09 -!- przl [~przlrkt@62.217.45.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:23:38 stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has joined #lisp 16:23:55 gusainhimanshu [~chatzilla@120.58.191.68] has joined #lisp 16:26:07 stassats, would you like to rewrite the quickutil docs for me, since i changed how it works entirely again? i'm a little tired of rewriting docs :) 16:26:24 Oberon_IsA_Geek [~dcrooksto@209-6-246-54.c3-0.wrx-ubr1.sbo-wrx.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 16:27:08 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-211-11-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 16:27:57 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-162-112.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 16:28:29 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-162-112.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:29:06 Quadrescence: you write docs. there's your problem 16:29:16 ha! 16:30:48 Quadrescence: sure, i'd be glad to help, here are the steps: rm -rf quickutil 16:30:53 no quickutil, no docs needed 16:31:02 ;) 16:31:03 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 16:31:44 fwiw, there's no network aspect to it anymore, so it looks/feels a lot more like a regular library. 16:33:07 that makes more sense 16:34:09 (but "yet another util library" doesn't) 16:34:48 fortunately it is not "yet another util library"! it still maintains the piecemeal aspect, and still allows one to generate a utils file for bootstrapping 16:34:50 though, i liked the part where you can see its code, since documentation is written in some human language and it's hard to understand what it actually means 16:35:46 mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 16:37:32 (by "piecemeal aspect", i mean that still only the functions you want, and their dependencies, are actually compiled and loaded) 16:38:04 do people really care about such things? 16:38:23 i mean, not like it's going to make things smaller by a large margin 16:39:37 showmethemoney [~androirc@221.166.128.145] has joined #lisp 16:40:13 Do people care about the piecemeal aspect? It seems like some people do. "Why do I have to load all of Alexandria when all I really wanted was IOTA?" 16:40:15 (unless you load 25 different util libraries) 16:40:34 Quadrescence: those people really need a tree-shaker 16:41:14 also, full-program compilation 16:41:20 and class sealing 16:41:31 yes having all of those would be nice 16:43:39 stassats, What about projects like SBCL or Quicklisp, which really can't afford to load entire ASDF systems? Could they benefit from a la carte utilities? 16:44:17 M-. C-M-h M-w works fine 16:45:47 Copy/paste the definitions into the project? That sounds like a managed, good way of doing things and keeping them up-to-date. 16:46:50 -!- sad0ur [~sad0ur@ip-89-102-144-158.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:47:01 better than using some arcane tools 16:47:24 sad0ur [~sad0ur@ip-89-102-144-158.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 16:47:39 and utils rarely change 16:48:02 bhyde: a happy bloggin' fourth to you! 16:49:04 *stassats* waits till Xach notices that slime-tips haven't been updated in months and purges it 16:49:21 fwiw, it's not going to be ever updated 16:49:23 stassats: all will be forgiven if you can tip me off to how to disable presentations after loading them 16:49:57 you mean entirely? 16:50:17 I don't know what that means. I don't want them active in the repl. 16:50:26 and in the inspector? 16:50:28 If they are inactive there and active elsewhere, I might be ok. 16:50:33 I don't know about the inspector. 16:51:32 ok, no easy way, but i can paste you some code 16:52:16 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@78-134-82-178.v4.ngi.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:52:54 Xach: actually, the easy way: (setq slime-write-string-function 'slime-repl-write-string) 16:53:10 stassats: thanks. 16:53:30 and why? 16:54:10 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 16:54:44 ph88 [5597cc14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.151.204.20] has joined #lisp 16:55:27 are you around bulls and they are suspicious of the red color of the presentations? 16:55:47 if so, you can change the color! 16:56:06 I am ashamed to give the reason so I will just say thanks for now! 16:57:14 ok, i'll keep in mind to add such an option to my yet-unnamed-and-not-worked-on-in-months-slime-successor 16:57:22 and then write about it to yet-unnamed-and-not-worked-on-in-months-slime-successor-tips 16:59:29 I am very excited about the concept 16:59:43 May I suggest the name "asdf-emacs". 17:00:05 or "quicklispcode" 17:00:52 _malicious [~none@dhcp-130-58-195-191.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 17:00:52 Xach: what keyboard layout are you using? i can't find "emacs" on mine 17:03:03 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-77-150.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:04:35 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.119.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:05:59 ffilozov [~user@84.77.187.252] has joined #lisp 17:06:47 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:08:10 -!- ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:10:26 AeroNotix [~xeno@aboq51.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:11:12 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@99-136-83-34.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:46 zophy_ [~sy@host-30-23-2-96.midco.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:39 -!- syrinxHupUSA [~quassel@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:14:18 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:14:19 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:14:59 cddr [~user@c-66-30-116-130.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:07 -!- rk[boom] is now known as ryankarason 17:16:25 Has anyone noticed that https://github.com/nablaone/slime seems to have stopped tracking CVS slime? Is there another git mirror now? 17:17:20 google suggests https://github.com/antifuchs/slime 17:17:59 i actualyl don't know what's going on with slime, since the wonderful cl.net migration broke the daily changelog diffs 17:18:54 and the magnificent cl.net migration is probably the reason why that mirror doesn't work as well 17:19:05 Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-1279267682.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:19:25 -!- Jubb [~Jubb@pool-72-66-105-188.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:23:17 Thanks xach 17:24:06 that cl.net migration is quite a trainwreck 17:25:06 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:25:26 Anything we can do to help? 17:25:44 -!- gusainhimanshu [~chatzilla@120.58.191.68] has left #lisp 17:26:42 not really 17:26:50 Is there a list somewhere of all the stuff that it broke? 17:27:30 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:28:22 There was a presentation about it at ECLM, and I think one slide had a list like that. 17:29:12 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@99-136-83-34.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:31:45 -!- protist [~protist@80.172.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:32:15 Jubb [~Jubb@pool-72-66-105-188.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:32 -!- yati [~yati@122.169.94.179] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:33:00 antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-dgbbmzikwejvomdg] has joined #lisp 17:33:04 agumonkey [~agu@194.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:09 -!- ryankarason is now known as rk[ 17:35:58 -!- youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:39:10 I mostly remember the bullet point about mailing list web interfaces. They're gone. 17:39:20 sdemarre [~serge@91.180.99.116] has joined #lisp 17:40:52 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 17:41:35 That doesn't sound like it's too hard to fix 17:42:49 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:53 -!- cddr [~user@c-66-30-116-130.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:43:24 -!- Thra11 [~Thra11@109.110.112.87.dyn.plus.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:43:34 Regenaxer [~Baldur@pd9568a7a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:44:53 -!- Regenaxer [~Baldur@pd9568a7a.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 17:45:28 cddr [~user@c-66-30-116-130.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:08 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:21 A lot of things that are not hard to fix in isolation can become difficult because of context. 17:51:22 jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:51:54 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@31.29.21.24] has joined #lisp 17:51:54 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@31.29.21.24] has quit [Changing host] 17:51:54 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:54:56 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:48 I guess I have few days over the holidays and it would be cool to help in some way. Lispland seems like it's in a bit of a funk (although everyone in the ECLM 2013 photo looks pretty happy) 17:56:06 Hmm, I hadn't noticed a funk. 17:56:15 Maybe that's because I was at ECLM! 17:57:56 drmeiste_ [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:00 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:58:09 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:58:54 -!- paul0_ [~paul0@177.96.170.229] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:59:51 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host153.186-109-104.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:00:06 Thra11 [~Thra11@146.90.165.193] has joined #lisp 18:00:31 Xach: it was like for x in range 1...n: add to sum if divisible by blah. i don't know which part is slow, the 1...n or the modulus test 18:01:05 why divide when you can just add? 18:01:30 and there should be a constant time formula 18:01:47 k0001 [~k0001@host154.181-1-202.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 18:01:59 inkjetunito: did you actually cons up the range? 18:02:44 stassats: that would be a better algorithm, yes, but the problem was that the same alg was slower on gnu clisp that what it did on another language. 18:02:54 Xach: one moment, i'll put it online 18:03:12 gnu clisp is not particularly fast, and you need to compile the thing before doing any measures 18:04:26 stassats: yeah. i did compile. i'll probably switch to sbcl when speed gets more important. 18:04:39 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 18:05:38 inkjetunito: looking forward to it 18:05:57 be sure to not have dangling parenthesis! 18:06:14 it makes it about 10 times faster 18:06:41 Xach: improvements welcome. haven't spent more than a few evenings with lisp yet http://paste.lisp.org/+2YEY 18:07:00 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 18:07:23 that's the whole code? no wonder, it's probably using special variables 18:08:03 try (loop for n from 1 to 999999999 when (or (zerop (mod n 3)) (zerop (mod n 5))) sum i) 18:08:05 yeah, the compiler did warn about something indeed :) 18:08:10 cabaire [~nobody@p5DCD2F0E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:08:42 sum n 18:09:31 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:02 stassats: thanks. looks less c-like already :p 18:13:43 so, how fast is it? 18:13:44 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754b85.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:17 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-159-207.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:41 Bike: there is a newbie channel: #clnoobs ! 18:14:59 stassats: a little bit slower than the original, but the structure looked cleaner 18:15:12 (defun sum-to-n (n) (/ (+ (* n n) n) 2)) (defun sum-multiples (n limit) (* n (sum-to-n (floor limit n)))) (+ (sum-multiples 3 whatever) (sum-multiples 5 whatever) (- (sum-multiples 15 whatever))) 18:15:20 Bike: have a look a http://cliki.net/IRC 18:15:31 pjb: i have no idea why you're telling me this, sorry 18:15:54 inkjetunito: well, clisp is just slow 18:15:54 Probably something you said 13 hours ago. 18:15:55 <04:50:35> Hi, I have a very basic question to ask. I'm a lisp newbie. Is there a newbie 18:15:55 channel or is this one it? 18:15:55 <04:50:48> go ahead 18:15:55 18:16:26 well, newbie questions are fine here, aren't they 18:16:46 This is a good place to ask questions of all kinds. The problems arise when there is a clear lack of effort and progress. 18:16:56 #clnoobs has been created to better serve their needs. 18:17:13 I think that is a pretty dumb idea. 18:17:17 Good luck with it! 18:19:25 stassats: oh well. i suppose it's fast enough for learning purproses 18:19:38 I thought that too at first. But it has the advantage of assuming different knowledge on the part of the asker. 18:20:44 inkjetunito: it's better to learn with something you're going to use eventually 18:23:16 -!- samebcha1e is now known as samebchase 18:23:28 billstclair [~billstcla@68.237.143.207] has joined #lisp 18:23:28 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@68.237.143.207] has quit [Changing host] 18:23:28 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 18:24:14 i guess with mine in general you'd have to get all multiples out, might be an annoying combinatoric problem 18:25:12 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:28:47 Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 18:33:10 -!- arubin [~arubin@99-114-192-172.lightspeed.cicril.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 18:33:12 <|3b|> inkjetunito: don't use EQ to compare numbers 18:33:25 What is the easiest way to install libfixposix? 18:34:15 |3b|: thanks 18:34:42 -!- petekaz [~user@99-99-189-187.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:34:44 ASau` [~user@p5797EC29.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 18:34:45 I don't have a new enough autoconf to build from git. 18:34:48 <|3b|> inkjetunito: if you need to compare numbers to things that might not be numbers, use EQL, or if you know you only have numbers, use = 18:34:52 oh, what am i thinking, you don't even need a call stack. 18:36:11 paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has joined #lisp 18:36:18 |3b|: ahh. i need to re-read the chapter about equality testing 18:37:37 -!- cddr [~user@c-66-30-116-130.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:37:38 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-178-139.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:37:49 cddr [~user@c-66-30-116-130.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:26 -!- Odyessus [~odyessus@chello080109062130.15.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 18:38:27 -!- ASau [~user@p4FF9759B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:39:00 -!- ASau` is now known as ASau 18:39:04 stassats: looking much better now with sbcl (including the homepage of it) 18:39:29 now, that's not something you hear often 18:39:35 nha_ [~prefect@koln-4d0dc20e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:29 -!- Amadiro [jonathri@dalvik.ping.uio.no] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:44:25 -!- ffilozov [~user@84.77.187.252] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:45:12 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:45:45 ehu [~Erik@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:46:26 Amadiro [jonathri@dalvik.ping.uio.no] has joined #lisp 18:46:57 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-211-11-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:46:59 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 18:47:22 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-226-213.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:51:32 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 18:51:48 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 18:54:24 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-77-150.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:55:06 -!- Nisstyre-laptop is now known as Nisstyre 18:59:33 These slashes in asdf system names are causing me a huge headache. 18:59:58 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:00:09 tell me about it 19:00:24 i really dislike the gazillion of packages 19:00:36 tab completion now entirely useless for asdf 19:00:41 I use the filesystem to store metadata about systems, and the pathname-name is the system name. 19:00:54 Now that is broken. 19:02:01 *stassats* read that as asdf package names 19:02:13 That is merely annoying. 19:03:05 i'm curious, which build system gnu make uses to build itself? 19:03:20 asdf uses make 19:04:32 stassats: bsdmake XD 19:04:33 -!- paradoja [~paradoja@85.Red-213-4-35.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:05:22 looks like it just uses make 19:05:50 -!- _malicious [~none@dhcp-130-58-195-191.swarthmore.edu] has left #lisp 19:06:07 yacks [~py@180.151.36.168] has joined #lisp 19:06:19 yes. Like Linux is programmed in Linux machines, SBCL can be compiled in SBCL, git is versioned in git... 19:06:39 better not give ideas to ASDF 19:06:41 but I guess there existed a "make" utility before the gmake 19:06:56 which worked similarly 19:07:44 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:09:31 slartiba` [~user@p5488B17A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:09:54 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 19:10:50 -!- slartiba` [~user@p5488B17A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 19:17:39 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:21:03 ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:05 I think we need a #reddit-lisp 19:21:15 "we" 19:21:42 I want to comment the fact that /u/AnotherLisper posted something that is not about Clojure 19:22:02 loke: hitecnologys is pretty right! <03:48:08> I'm pretty sure big companies can make special keyborads with capslock and remove it from normal ones. 19:22:37 that's the reason why there's this capslock in place of control: IBM wanted to sell PCs to big companies, and the had them put it there. 19:22:56 -!- _d3f [~gnu@94.242.252.66] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 19:24:29 minion: memo for theseb: Have a look at (intersection common-lisp emacs-lisp scheme) http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/com/informatimago/small-cl-pgms/intersection-r5rs-common-lisp-emacs-lisp/ 19:24:29 Remembered. I'll tell theseb when he/she/it next speaks. 19:25:19 => (# 19:25:21 err 19:25:29 => (\#( #\)) 19:27:06 -!- ASau [~user@p5797EC29.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:30:04 -!- fenton [~fenton@49.231.113.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:30:34 pjb, what motivated you to abbreviate "programs" as "pgms" 19:30:52 ASau [~user@p5797EC29.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:31:00 maybe it's short for "paulgrahams" 19:31:13 hahaha 19:31:32 Denommus, why not just use #lispcafe 19:31:45 nevermind, i see you're there 19:31:54 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:32:38 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-162-112.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:33:26 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-153-115.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:34:18 rszeno [~rszeno@86.125.230.20] has joined #lisp 19:34:54 KingNato_ [~isildur@c-e9eee253.012-31-73746f43.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:36:00 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 19:36:44 pok_ [~pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has joined #lisp 19:37:24 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-222-46-130.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:37:26 chu_ [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 19:37:47 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 19:37:57 dtw- [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 19:38:19 ozzloy_ [~ozzloy@ozzloy.lifeafterking.org] has joined #lisp 19:38:33 tessier_ [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 19:38:39 ineiros_ [~itniemin@bayesianconspiracy.org] has joined #lisp 19:38:53 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:38:55 Octothorpe [~nobody@p5DCD2F0E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:38:58 cross_ [cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:09 l_a_m_ [~l_a_m@94.124.130.19] has joined #lisp 19:39:20 -!- chu_ is now known as chu 19:39:32 antoszka_ [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 19:39:38 isomorph1smes [~ubuntu@ec2-54-243-213-161.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 19:39:44 Bike [~Glossina@71-222-46-130.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:47 labels is to flet as recursive-let is to let: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137918 19:40:19 -!- jdoles [~jdoles@unaffiliated/jdoles] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:40:19 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:40:19 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@c-68-37-70-235.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:40:19 -!- KingNato [~isildur@c-e9eee253.012-31-73746f43.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:40:34 -!- ozzloy [~ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:40:35 -!- pok [~pok@tarrant.klingenberg.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:40:35 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:40:35 -!- cabaire [~nobody@p5DCD2F0E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:40:35 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:36 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:40:42 (lambda (x) (declare (float x)) (* x 1)) generates code to coerce 1 to a float at runtime. i'm not good with float weirdness, is that necessary? 19:40:53 -!- bejer [~bejer@1508892794.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:41:02 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 19:41:03 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:41:05 -!- l_a_m [~l_a_m@94.124.130.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:41:05 -!- maxm- [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:41:05 -!- dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:41:05 -!- cross [cross@spitfire.i.gajendra.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:41:06 -!- ineiros [~itniemin@bayesianconspiracy.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:41:06 -!- schoppenhauer [~quassel@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:41:06 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:41:06 -!- tycho [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:41:06 -!- expez [~expez@expez.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:41:07 -!- spacebat [spacebat@50.56.189.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:41:28 -!- isomorphismes [~ubuntu@ec2-54-243-213-161.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:41:45 Bike, what if you decl'd as single-float instead? 19:42:14 Bike: even 1d0 will do that in sbcl 19:42:28 thlteam [anasboulkh@adsl196-96-23-206-196.adsl196-1.iam.net.ma] has joined #lisp 19:42:33 you have to use (load-time-value 1d0 t) 19:42:36 spacebat [spacebat@core.ubermonkey.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:41 -!- thlteam [anasboulkh@adsl196-96-23-206-196.adsl196-1.iam.net.ma] has left #lisp 19:42:46 that's uh, nasty 19:42:50 fenton [~fenton@49.231.96.68] has joined #lisp 19:42:58 expez [~expez@expez.com] has joined #lisp 19:43:02 p_l: Common Lisp is more modern than scheme. scheme: 1975; Common Lisp: 1994. 19:43:18 what a sensible comparison 19:43:42 pjb, it is really useful to talk about scheme standards. the latest scheme standard is 2013. 19:43:51 s/scheme standards/standards/ 19:44:01 i thought it was more baroque 19:44:04 jdoles [~jdoles@unaffiliated/jdoles] has joined #lisp 19:44:05 -!- banjara1 [~Adium@172-7-148-12.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:44:13 nug700_ [~nug700@174-26-159-207.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:25 dented42 [~dented42@opengroove.org] has joined #lisp 19:44:29 Quadrescence: generated code for single-float doesn't involve a full call to float, at least 19:44:39 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:44:46 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:47 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:44:50 single-floats are immediate on x86-64 19:45:06 i am surprised at what stassats said though 19:45:08 my computer is ancient, not -64 :( 19:45:29 bejer [~bejer@1508892794.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 19:45:42 so, 1s0 will be fine on sbcl-x86-64, but in your original case, it may do inline conversion 19:46:09 -!- antgreen [green@nat/redhat/x-dgbbmzikwejvomdg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:46:31 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:33 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:46:52 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:46:59 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:47:01 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:01 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:47:11 -!- surrounder [~surrounde@095-096-032-026.static.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: "latuh"] 19:47:37 -!- nug700 [~nug700@174-26-159-207.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:47:38 -!- yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:47:48 Quadrescence: I'm French. pgm is an old French abreviation for programme. 19:47:55 actually, 1s0 won't use a constant (just avoid consing), so, (load-time-value 1s0 t) may still be faster 19:48:03 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 19:48:03 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:48:03 yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has joined #lisp 19:48:07 -!- trigen- [~MSX@cppse.nl] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 19:48:34 pjb, la petite pgm 19:49:10 Un petit programme. 19:49:16 Le petit programme. 19:49:31 "la programme", n'est-ce pas? 19:49:35 Nope. 19:49:37 Le programme. 19:49:37 trigen [~MSX@cppse.nl] has joined #lisp 19:49:44 wow, news to me! 19:49:51 La poésie, la lettre, le courier, le programme. 19:50:02 Bike: and indeed, in your original case, it doesn't know which float to coerce it 19:50:30 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:50:33 surrounder [~surrounde@095-096-032-026.static.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 19:50:40 *rszeno* le travail, :) 19:50:46 Une application, un logiciel, un algorithme. 19:50:49 -!- dtw- is now known as dtw 19:50:52 rszeno: une tache ;-) 19:50:59 das Programm 19:51:00 tâche. 19:51:28 l'util! 19:51:42 pjb, I mistook, because in spanish, it's "programa", and I actually thought (logically) that it was "la programa", and generally gender matches up with French. But in reality, it's "el programa" in Spanish too. :) 19:51:46 l'utils 19:51:49 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:49 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:52:07 how to say "off-topic" in french? 19:52:16 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:17 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:52:26 -!- antoszka_ [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:53:01 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:53:25 irrelevant ?! 19:53:26 Quadrescence: but in Spanish there's a lot of false friends too. Hence the famous No problemo. 19:53:40 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 19:53:49 Lo correcto seria: no problema. Un problema. Un programa. 19:53:59 pjb, :) 19:54:01 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 19:54:03 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:54:04 el sacapuntas 19:54:17 ¡el non-topica¡ 19:54:20 ! 19:54:22 :-) 19:54:46 doomlord [~doomlod@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:55:00 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:55:04 I speak Portuguese. Yet, I have lots of difficulties with Spanish 19:55:19 -!- drmeiste_ [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:55:24 drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:16 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:46 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@247.47-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 19:56:46 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@247.47-244-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Changing host] 19:56:46 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 19:56:57 oh well. lisp doesn't have gendered objects at least 19:57:19 ya don't be afraid, do them all! 19:57:22 lol 19:57:47 -!- Tribal [tribal@rcfreak0.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:57:47 -!- benny [~user@maidenhead3.tunnelr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:57:48 -!- sauerkrause [~krause@cpe-24-55-25-199.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:59:07 Tribal [tribal@rcfreak0.com] has joined #lisp 19:59:11 sauerkrause [~krause@cpe-24-55-25-199.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:00:20 rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has joined #lisp 20:00:53 Denommus: well, there's a dissociate between Portuguese speach and write. I can read Portuguese, I could probably write it correctly too, with some learning, but speaking or understanding it is very hard 20:01:14 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:01:27 people say we speak too quickly 20:01:47 inkjetunito: and that's interesting because that's one place where perl can do easily enough something that's much harder to integrate with lisp. Have a look at perligata. Of course, it doesn't make sense in lisp (we could parse something like that with reader macros, but it's useless). 20:02:06 Denommus: I've got the impression of hearing Russian often :-) 20:02:50 russian? it's clearly polish! 20:03:14 no problema is incorrect, it would be no hay problema. 20:04:14 in Portuguese that would be "sem problema" 20:04:28 "sem" is like "without" 20:04:49 ¡sem topicana! 20:05:00 well you can say sin problemas too in spanish. 20:05:09 -!- Octothorpe [~nobody@p5DCD2F0E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:05:41 ehu` [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:06:22 "não há problema" seems awkward to me 20:06:36 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has left #lisp 20:07:13 -!- jeremyheiler [~jeremyhei@cpe-72-230-245-1.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 20:08:05 -!- ASau [~user@p5797EC29.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:09:13 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12:06 -!- pierpa [~user@host204-228-dynamic.51-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:13:53 -!- fenton [~fenton@49.231.96.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:16:23 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.180.99.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:21:22 drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:01 ASau [~user@p5797EC29.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:23:37 -!- arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:26:01 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c1b34.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:26:49 fenton [~fenton@49.231.98.139] has joined #lisp 20:28:36 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 20:29:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:30:58 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-222-46-130.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:32:29 [ot] searching for some info on swank, I got this headline in results: Charlie Sheen Blames 'Lisp' for Gay Slur at Swank Bar Opening ... 20:33:05 ... wat 20:34:13 I think that's more than enough information 20:34:21 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aboq51.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:35:33 back on-topic, as a newb to CL with far too much attachment to vim for my own good, I'm trying to get slimv (vim plugin emulating slime) talking to swank on ECL: it loads & connects, but on any error the swank server exits. Any tips on debugging this? 20:36:19 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-77-150.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:36:59 Just use evil? 20:37:22 what is evil? 20:37:54 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 20:37:56 aspect: an Emacs mode that implements vi in Emacs 20:38:01 http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/Evil 20:39:52 might be worth a shot ... I'm pretty sure my attachment to vim runs deep enough that emulation isn't going to cut it, but I'll give it a try 20:40:34 is there anything I can do on the swank side to try and figure out why it's exiting? 20:42:09 I'm wondering also if ECL is a poor choice to start with - I like the implementation model & have some plans to use it embedded, but wondering if swank on sbcl is more likely to Just Work 20:42:48 ECL is more raw than SBCL at many things 20:42:52 Including swank & library support 20:43:17 cool, that's what I needed to hear 20:44:37 -!- ASau [~user@p5797EC29.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:44:38 is there any reason for someone new to CL to not use sbcl? 20:46:04 i don't know one, maybe his preference for something else 20:46:07 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: (signal 'dtw:sleep)] 20:46:14 I'm asking for myself actually :) 20:46:14 jagaj: my only reason is trying to make my path to CL more gentle .. ECL's FFI and embeddability put it on much more familiar ground for me 20:46:23 jagaj: two hours after switching to sbcl: no 20:46:34 jagaj, fast bignums 20:46:42 arbitrary precision floats 20:46:47 ARM 20:46:52 SBCL has fast bignums. 20:46:52 usability on Windows 20:46:58 SBCL is usable on windows. 20:47:00 Xach, they are not fast 20:47:07 In a relative sense, they are. 20:47:12 relative to what? 20:47:16 Other CL implementations. 20:47:17 Quadrescence: hmm what implementation would you advocate? 20:47:36 aspect, i advocate sbcl, but you use the right tool for the right job 20:47:37 AeroNotix [~xeno@aboj133.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:47:40 jagaj: If you want to write GUI CL applications and you can pay for tools, LispWorks is pretty great. 20:48:16 It's something people use when they write programs to sell that have GUIs. 20:48:17 Xach: that is actually what I am doing, moving a GUI project over to CL 20:48:19 *aspect* fwiw has a decent amount of experience with other lisps, notably schemes & Tcl, but I've managed to avoid CL so far 20:48:33 jagaj: If you don't make money from the project, LispWorks might not be a great choice. 20:49:23 Xach, clisp's bignums are fast, GMP is fast. There are many a bignum program in CL that take 8 seconds that should take 800 ms. That stark difference in magnitude makes SBCL's bignums slow. 20:49:26 ASau [~user@p5797EC29.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:49:38 Bike [~Glossina@71-222-46-130.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:49:44 Xach: 20:49:50 oops 20:50:27 how about creating GUIs without forking out cash ... is mcclim the go-to? 20:50:55 aspect: If I was doing that, I think I would look into Ltk (seems simple to try) or commonqt (seems more complicated to try) 20:51:19 aspect, I will jokingly advocate mcclim, and I wish it got more attention, but it is not exactly production ready. 20:51:52 for me at least, clim is/was fun to write 20:53:10 Ltk looks appealing, since I already know Tk quite well 20:53:22 Ltk does indeed look simple and clean 20:53:32 I didn't see that at all when i was searching 20:53:58 part of my excitement on finding ECL was the prospect of building ECL+Tcl into a common runtime and using both worlds :-) 20:56:31 -!- statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-014-046.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:56:54 ltk's model of communication with wish also looks quite nice .. better than chicken-tk was back when I tried that :-) 20:58:34 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 20:58:36 I liked STkLOS. 21:00:04 iirc that was r4rs at the time, which put me off 21:03:20 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 21:03:39 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 21:05:44 -!- inkjetunito [~hf999@unaffiliated/inkjetunit] has quit [Quit: qQQQQQQq] 21:10:20 -!- Oberon_IsA_Geek is now known as Oberon4278 21:10:48 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:13:07 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:14:03 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 21:14:17 -!- ph88 [5597cc14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.151.204.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 21:14:57 -!- Thra11 [~Thra11@146.90.165.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:15:18 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Client Quit] 21:15:40 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-77-150.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:17:42 Xach: https://github.com/xach/release-wrangler/blob/master/project.lisp over here is there any particular reason why you're using def(generic)|(method). I mean the project class looks fairly simple and you aren't inheriting from it. What are the advantages of using defgeneric/defmethod over defstruct/defun 21:19:32 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f754b85.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:22:13 -!- agumonkey [~agu@194.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:24:03 samebchase: extensability 21:24:33 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:25:02 samebchase: also, polymorphism. He may do another method with another class that uses the same generic function 21:27:01 okay 21:30:03 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 21:30:04 JasonFelice [~jfelice@cpe-107-10-62-199.neo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:31:44 -!- Watcher7 is now known as Watcher7|off 21:32:35 -!- ASau [~user@p5797EC29.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:34:49 -!- showmethemoney [~androirc@221.166.128.145] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:34:58 clhs force-output 21:34:58 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_finish.htm 21:36:10 ASau [~user@p5797EC29.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 21:36:14 -!- copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has quit [Quit: checkity check out.] 21:38:52 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:41:30 -!- cddr [~user@c-66-30-116-130.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:41:45 cddr [~user@c-66-30-116-130.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:48 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 21:49:00 Quadrescence: "a staunch opposer" 21:49:07 i like that 21:49:12 am i wrong? :) 21:49:15 if so i will change it 21:49:53 (it wasn't meant to be antagonistic, btw) 21:50:01 no, it's fine 21:50:06 i had a chuckle 21:50:29 after all, that's why i try to do, to oppose staunchly anything in my path! 21:51:06 it's true :) 21:51:07 -!- ehu` [~ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:51:51 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 21:51:58 samebchase: I thought a project might be an object with state at first. I wrote the defgenerics first. then as i got around to implementing things I realized the project could just be a string. 21:52:17 In the future I could have a more complex thing as a project. 21:52:29 In that case it's kind of a project release protocol that is satisfied by strings. 21:54:29 Nisstyre-laptop [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 21:54:45 -!- cddr [~user@c-66-30-116-130.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:55:02 cddr [~user@c-66-30-116-130.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:02 Xach: did you solve the slash problem with asdf? 21:55:33 -!- Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:55:35 stassats: Which problem? 21:55:38 Yours, or mine? 21:55:47 yours 21:55:53 i'm just curious 21:56:42 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:59 I think I know how I can work around it. It will require a client update. 21:57:14 are you now storing it in an Oracle DB? 21:57:45 close. knowledgeworks facts. 21:57:47 after all, adding weird dependencies is now in vogue 21:58:07 what weird deps ? 21:58:22 stassats: You don't need to add weird deps if you subsume the deps into your project. 21:58:26 See ASDF and XCVB/cl-launch. 21:58:59 quickdb 21:59:00 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 21:59:05 -!- nha_ [~prefect@koln-4d0dc20e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:59:29 -!- zophy_ [~sy@host-30-23-2-96.midco.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:59:52 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:00:27 zophy_ [~sy@host-30-23-2-96.midco.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:52 Quadrescence: and regarding copy-pasting, utils are usually small, simple and don't change often 22:01:51 if they are not simple, then they shouldn't be named "utils" 22:01:52 i agree, but that doesn't make everyone copying utils around any better 22:02:06 some write from scratch 22:02:14 yeah, horrible 22:02:37 since there's usually more than one aspect of code 22:02:44 time-efficient vs space-efficient 22:03:00 good thing we have POLICY-COND so we can write both versions 22:03:40 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 22:04:29 and more efficient code can be written for a particular implementation 22:04:47 and for a particular implementation using dirty-tricks-which-will-break-next-month-but-who-cares 22:04:53 and lisp doesn't have a way of discriminating implementations? 22:06:07 no, it just favors writing a thing from scratch for a particular purpose for a particular implementation 22:07:06 it sounds like a better idea to me to share the best/fastest implementation of something with everyone, instead of having only implementation gurus use their weird compiler tricks, and have everyone else write their simpleminded implementation that isn't quite as fast 22:07:30 i'm fine with the latter 22:07:38 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aboj133.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Uploading hax.....] 22:08:13 and it sounds better for me to have people assume they can get the best implementation of something and not spend an hour figuring out the best way to write something for a particular implementation. also it would be nice if that sort of "institutional knowledge" was easily shared 22:11:22 so, is there something like "discover utilities", but for CL functions? 22:11:38 since i see people often don't know all the 978 symbols by heart 22:12:53 mulf, divf, half, here i thought that half is surely (setf x (hal x y)) 22:13:00 :) 22:13:10 shouldn't it be halve? 22:13:12 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 22:13:28 copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has joined #lisp 22:13:28 -!- copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:13:53 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:13:56 copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has joined #lisp 22:13:57 -!- copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:13:59 stassats, do you think it should be? halve is more verby, maybe it's a good idea to change 22:14:26 copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has joined #lisp 22:14:27 -!- copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:14:48 it's not "more", it is a verb 22:14:48 stassats, and I don't know anything like "discover utils" but for CL functions. I was thinking about mixing them in, actually, and having a "cl" category 22:14:56 copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has joined #lisp 22:14:57 -!- copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:15:26 copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has joined #lisp 22:15:27 -!- copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:15:33 depends on which convention are you using, verbs for actions, or nouns for results 22:15:56 copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has joined #lisp 22:15:57 stassats, it's more because "take half of" is a verb phrase, but only 33% of those words are actually words, whereas "halve" is a 100% verb, and 33% < 100% 22:15:57 -!- copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:16:01 double and square double as both 22:16:27 copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has joined #lisp 22:16:27 -!- copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:16:57 copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has joined #lisp 22:17:07 though, you'd never find my doing (hal[f|ve] x) instead of (/ x 2) 22:17:22 -!- victor_lowther [~victor.lo@2602:306:3686:aac0:a8df:5a3:fbb6:d224] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:17:38 stassats, I originally used "half" a couple years ago for numerical code. When I had some huge mathematical expression, having the dangling '2's were annoying. 22:17:45 It was also useful enough as a first class function 22:17:59 *aspect* would spell that /2 22:18:41 and writing positivep and negativep instead of plusp and minusp 22:18:54 that's not utils, that's "let's rename CL functions" 22:19:03 Quadrescence: in the light of that, i recently discovered the methodfinder gem for ruby. you basically give it an input and an output, and it will return the functions which yield that result. such a thing for lisp could be helpful for newcomers. 22:19:10 +p and -p, duh 22:19:11 stassats, that is why they are categorized as "synonyms" 22:19:20 stassats, click "synonyms" to see more of them 22:19:49 the coolest function search thing i'm aware of is hoogle, but CL types aren't first class enough for that, i think 22:20:17 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Quit: Emacs must have died] 22:20:19 Quadrescence: by synonyms you mean, "let's make the code unreadable for unfamiliar with quickutils"? 22:20:37 if someone finds "positivep" unreadable, well, I'm not sure. 22:20:51 stassats, positivep and negativep have better symmetry with non-positive-p and non-negative-p, and all four of those are names that mathematicians use. 22:21:10 i guess it's probably not very helpful for "how do i use X web protocol", though 22:21:15 Bike: for seasoned lispers, that would work. i didn't know most of the types by heart when i started out. 22:21:59 it makes me think of "is-it-sure-p" 22:22:01 or "did-you-fail-a-drug-test-p" 22:22:31 Bike: many of the functions in the spec are typed. i doubt it'd work as good for non-standardized code 22:23:24 Quadrescence: that's why i would use (not (minusp x)) 22:23:29 "look ma, no utils!" 22:24:18 -!- zacts [~user@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:24:33 stassats, more discussion can be found here: http://lists.common-lisp.net/pipermail/alexandria-devel/2012-April/000710.html 22:26:36 -!- MoALTz [~no@host86-142-160-187.range86-142.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:27:13 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host154.181-1-202.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:27:26 there's a type in the docstring for integral-length 22:27:36 i won't say where, since that's would be too helpful 22:28:05 as in "integer-length" it is meant to say 22:28:48 and (integral-length 99) => 3 22:29:00 which is wrong, in my book 22:29:29 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:29:58 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:31:22 agumonkey [~agu@194.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 22:32:08 and integral-length is named really similar to integer-length, can lead to subtle bugs 22:32:19 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.99.45] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:32:44 perhaps the second argument should be required then to avoid those bugs 22:33:20 what about count-digits 22:33:23 or digit-count 22:33:26 or digit-number 22:34:50 that sounds like a good idea, either count-digits or digit-count 22:35:43 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:48 torzrs [d9e77990@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.231.121.144] has joined #lisp 22:36:37 What is Lisp for? Is it still used for artificial intelligence or are there any other usecases for the language? 22:36:52 for everything 22:37:12 nope, AI is dead and lisp was way too specialised to use in any other domain 22:37:17 For the life, the universe and everything? 22:37:18 -!- JasonFelice [~jfelice@cpe-107-10-62-199.neo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:37:34 yes it's used for repetitive nerd jokes as well 22:37:42 :) 22:38:03 dsevilla [~user@66.Red-79-151-177.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:07 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 22:39:14 well...I am somewhat interessted in the lisp, because it is so much different from the languages I am using these days(C, python)...but I don't know which advantages I would have when I knew more about lisp... 22:39:30 -!- ASau [~user@p5797EC29.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:40:28 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:40:29 Quadrescence: and surely (nth-value 0 x) is better written as (values x) 22:40:47 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:40:49 stassats, why do you think it is better written that way, except that it is shorter? 22:41:04 ASau [~user@p5797EC29.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:41:05 -!- torzrs [d9e77990@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.231.121.144] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:41:06 because it is shorter 22:41:11 and idiomatic 22:41:28 i never really thought it conveyed the intent as clearly 22:42:48 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-77-150.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:42:49 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:43:17 wow, they already left, huh 22:43:54 Quadrescence: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137920 22:44:43 stassats, i changed it to (1+ (floor (log n) (log base))) 22:44:56 still wrong 22:45:05 why is it wrong? 22:45:14 what is a counterexample? 22:45:15 (1+ (floor (log 999999999999999999) (log 10))) => 19 22:45:31 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 22:45:38 paddymahoney [~patrick@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 22:45:50 is that because of rounding? 22:45:59 9999999 is enough here :) 22:46:03 yes 22:46:15 Bike: 999999999999999999 is enough for (log 10d0) 22:47:05 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 22:47:10 stassats, my test is showing yours has an error, i think 22:48:09 stassats, digit-count 1 4 ==> 0 22:48:16 right 22:48:45 maybe i'll just avoid floats altogether and just do division 22:50:40 should be (expt base (1- approx)), not (1- (expt base approx)) 22:51:07 k0001 [~k0001@host154.181-1-202.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 22:51:08 maybe there's some clever nastiness in hacker's delight 22:51:37 Bike: if only for word-sized 22:51:49 with binary search or similar 22:52:01 yeah, probably doesn't care aboug bignums 22:52:09 stassats, that looks right 22:52:19 Quadrescence: now prove it! 22:52:22 -!- ehaliewicz [~user@50-0-51-11.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:53:07 jfe [~jfe@ool-18bfe75c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:53:09 the proof sounds relatively simple 22:54:12 there is one tiny bug though in that it doesn't work for 0. :) 22:54:28 and using integer-length is better than (1+ (floor (log n) (log base))), because it won't overflow 22:54:53 what if i put in a base of 1e16 and the log loses too much precision, huh! 22:55:28 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:06 drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:42 i wonder if we can reliably calculate the bound of BASE which it fails at 22:56:56 at which point just rely on division then 22:57:52 you can still use the approximation as the starting point 22:58:10 Quadrescence: by the way, is there some criterion for what is a "utility" and what's not? like, modular exponetiation is like five lines with the squaring algorithm, but it's "mathy" 22:58:12 just do more checks than one digit off 22:59:29 Bike, I personally don't really have a criterion, except the 4 listed here: http://symbo1ics.com/blog/?p=1936 23:00:00 or other digity things like crz 23:00:13 arguably factorial is a "mathy" function too 23:00:22 same with random-gaussian and variance 23:01:54 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:01:59 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:33 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:02:50 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 23:02:57 stassats, the improvements should be live now: http://quickutil.org/list?q=digit-count 23:07:57 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host154.181-1-202.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:15:24 -!- Drone[02] [nitrodex@host86-129-250-80.range86-129.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:16:56 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 23:17:53 antgreen [~green@dsl-173-206-105-245.tor.primus.ca] has joined #lisp 23:20:13 k0001 [~k0001@host154.181-1-202.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 23:21:26 Joreji [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 23:21:35 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 23:25:23 -!- k0001 [~k0001@host154.181-1-202.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:27:52 Quadrescence: better digits: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137920#1 23:28:54 stassats, is it faster? 23:30:59 oughta be if there's no tail recursion, for one 23:31:25 Quadrescence: and why is it in reverse order? 23:31:36 and why is the order not specified? 23:31:54 (nth digits n) refers to the coefficient of base^n 23:32:21 clearly (digits 0) oughta be nil for parity with integer-length 23:33:09 Bike, I'm not sure, I'd expect (0) to be returned if I was asked for the digits of the integer 0. You're right that integer-length returns 0 for 0. 23:35:36 -!- cddr [~user@c-66-30-116-130.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:35:53 cddr [~user@c-66-30-116-130.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:21 i'm not sure i've wanted the digits of a number ever, honestly, just iterating over them at best 23:36:23 -!- rszeno [~rszeno@86.125.230.20] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:36:58 Bike, maybe MAP-DIGITS should be written :) 23:37:01 what does it mean, a digit of a ratio number? 23:37:37 stassats, decimal expansion of the ratio, positive indexed digit is to the left of the decimal point, negative to the right 23:39:09 Quadrescence: here's a better one: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137920#2 23:39:30 Quadrescence: so should it go forever for 1/3 or what 23:39:49 Bike, this is for NTH-DIGIT, not DIGITS 23:39:54 oh. 23:40:32 it should return (0 \. (3)) 23:41:39 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.24.193] has joined #lisp 23:41:48 Bike, http://paste.lisp.org/display/137921 23:43:28 i have no idea why i'd need that but it's kinda neat. 23:44:46 weird number theory manipulations, recreational math 23:46:30 stassats, if you want a little puzzle (not that difficult), write BIT-VECTOR-INTEGER/INTEGER-BIT-VECTOR to take an extra parameter to allow twos complement representation of negative numbers. (two's complement N-bit integer) 23:47:00 i'm not helping you, i'm just shaming you! 23:47:13 ;) 23:48:13 you have made me feel so ashamed. :) 23:48:33 barglfargl [~brglfrgl@66-168-203-39.dhcp.gsvl.ga.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:52:31 -!- barglfargl [~brglfrgl@66-168-203-39.dhcp.gsvl.ga.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:53:14 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 23:53:36 k_89 [~k@182.68.187.161] has joined #lisp 23:58:50 Quadrescence: really better nth-digit: (mod (floor number (expt base n)) base) 23:59:30 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds]