00:02:28 -!- natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 00:03:25 arademaker [~user@177.142.17.109] has joined #lisp 00:05:43 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:06:23 if you POP a list that was passed as a function argument, only the function's local reference to that list is mutated, correct? (in other words, the external list that was passed remains unmodified). 00:06:39 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 00:07:28 yes, it only changes the variable. 00:07:39 thanks 00:09:22 I am looking for good tutorials about DSLs. Any point? 00:09:57 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 00:13:40 knob5312 [~knob@adsl-64-237-232-27.prtc.net] has joined #lisp 00:14:37 -!- knob3212 [~knob@adsl-64-237-232-27.prtc.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:17:08 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.130.32.57] has joined #lisp 00:23:39 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 00:25:16 is there a canonical implementation of stacks and queues, or should I put my personal mini-library up and request it to be added to quicklisp 00:25:33 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:25:40 there is QUEUES from froydnj 00:25:40 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:25:42 iirc 00:26:33 i see 00:27:18 this is what I'd contribute: https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/lisp-random/raw/b8c1d1b1632ca0b952294c879480a230e841cbab/stack-queue.lisp 00:27:23 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-53-240.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:27:27 -!- Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@201.164.190.172] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:28:03 I've duplicated it in three projects, but if there is something better/faster, I will use it. 00:30:08 -!- gensym [~timo@85.158.178.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:30:36 -!- harish [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:31:46 Bike [~Glossina@174-25-53-240.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:32:23 Bike_ [~Glossina@174-25-53-240.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:33:18 Quadrescence: I actually like nreverse queues better: they do mpsc for free (or almost). 00:33:21 -!- ldionmarcil [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:34:09 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-53-240.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:34:13 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 00:36:29 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.130.32.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:37:08 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:38:23 -!- hwiersma [~hwiersma@S0106602ad08e475a.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:38:51 gensym [~timo@85.158.178.76] has joined #lisp 00:41:01 JasonFelice [~jfelice@152.160.30.10] has joined #lisp 00:42:05 what's the simplest way to split a list into n-tuples? such as '(a b c d e f g h i j k) ==> '((a b c) (d e f) (g h i) (j k)) for n=3 00:42:49 robot-beethoven, use quickutil's SUBDIVIDE :) 00:43:33 QSOLVE> (qtl:subdivide '(a b c d e f g) 3) 00:43:34 ((A B C) (D E F) (G)) 00:43:34 QSOLVE> (qtl:subdivide #(a b c d e f g) 3) 00:43:34 (#(A B C) #(D E F) #(G)) 00:44:32 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.225.6] has joined #lisp 00:44:44 -!- ozialien [~ernest@ip98-167-217-56.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:46:29 ozialien [~ernest@ip98-167-217-56.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:34 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 00:52:32 svs_ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has joined #lisp 00:52:38 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 00:52:56 dumb internet. robot-beethoven, did you get my messages? 00:53:15 we saw them, assuming you stopped at splitting an array. 00:53:23 yes i did 00:53:25 thanks 00:54:08 seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has joined #lisp 00:54:17 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:07 -!- bitonic [~user@90.205.181.109] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:55:37 Sigh, the problem with being picky - no command-line options library I like. 00:55:38 Quadrescence: thanks -- had been ignoring irc to read about quickutil 00:55:56 did you make it? 00:56:04 a friend and I, yes 00:56:27 lduros` [~user@pool-108-52-158-77.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:57:18 hwiersma [~hwiersma@d50-92-237-119.bchsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 00:57:25 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 00:58:59 bobbysmith007 [~russ@firewall-dcd1.acceleration.net] has joined #lisp 00:59:07 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:59:21 Quadresce_ [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 00:59:28 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:59:36 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:59:48 -!- Quadresce_ is now known as Quadrescence 01:00:53 -!- weie [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:00:53 weie_ [~eie@softbank221078042071.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 01:00:53 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:00:53 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:00:54 -!- ericmathison [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:00:54 ericmath1son [~ericmathi@172-15-249-133.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:01:00 -!- gensym [~timo@85.158.178.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:01:14 Bike_ [~Glossina@174-25-53-240.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:01:15 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:02:24 -!- bobbysmith0071 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:02:34 maxm- [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has joined #lisp 01:02:38 -!- seangrove [~user@208.80.69.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:03:20 Quadrescence: quickutil is exciting -- nice idea! 01:03:30 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-53-240.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:03:31 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 01:03:46 Shozan [~shozan@fsf/member/shodan] has joined #lisp 01:04:22 GuilOooo_ [~GuilOooo@178.20.70.196] has joined #lisp 01:04:53 asdf systems are ortogonal to packages right? 01:04:56 chu_ [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 01:04:59 aajmakin_ [aajmakin@kosh.org.aalto.fi] has joined #lisp 01:05:10 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:05:12 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 01:05:35 quazimod1 [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 01:05:46 z0d [~z0d@q.notresp.com] has joined #lisp 01:05:46 -!- z0d [~z0d@q.notresp.com] has quit [Changing host] 01:05:46 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 01:05:54 gensym [~timo@85.158.178.76] has joined #lisp 01:06:13 jsnell_ [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:19 PuercoPop: yes. You can have lots of packages in a single system, and lots of systems using the same package 01:06:23 rotty_ [rotty@yade.xx.vu] has joined #lisp 01:06:32 Mandus_ [~aasmundo@oro.simula.no] has joined #lisp 01:06:44 breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:06:54 purentity [~entity@c-50-136-180-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:59 brighid_ [~krinn@69.46.88.22] has joined #lisp 01:07:12 -!- BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:07:19 jdoles_ [~jdoles@unaffiliated/jdoles] has joined #lisp 01:08:18 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:08:24 efftee [efftee@oldshell.chaostreff-dortmund.de] has joined #lisp 01:08:24 -!- ft [efftee@195.160.168.8] has quit [Disconnected by services] 01:08:32 -!- efftee is now known as ft 01:08:32 lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:08:34 -!- ivan [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:09:04 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:09:08 -!- JasonFelice [~jfelice@152.160.30.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:09:15 JasonFelice [~jfelice@152.160.30.13] has joined #lisp 01:09:17 So systems, packages and files are all orthogonal to each other. Good to know, wanted to be sure I was not understanding concepts incorrectly 01:09:27 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:10:33 -!- svs_ [~svs@104-252-AGAVEBB-NM.abq.nm.agavebb.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:10:33 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:10:33 -!- jrajav [~jrajav@71-82-124-223.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:10:33 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:10:34 -!- kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:10:34 -!- Tarential [~Tarential@li421-205.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:10:34 -!- nightshade427 [~nightshad@li436-101.members.linode.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:10:34 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.135.192] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:10:34 -!- entitativity [~entity@c-50-136-180-20.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:10:34 -!- GuilOooo [~GuilOooo@178.20.70.196] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:10:35 -!- jdoles [~jdoles@unaffiliated/jdoles] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:10:35 -!- sauerkrause [~krause@cpe-24-55-25-199.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:10:35 -!- loke [~loke@203.127.16.194] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:10:35 -!- Mandus [~aasmundo@oro.simula.no] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:10:35 -!- aajmakin [aajmakin@kosh.org.aalto.fi] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:10:35 -!- brighid [~krinn@69.46.88.22] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:10:36 -!- maxm [~user@unaffiliated/maxm] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:10:36 -!- MrWoohoo [~MrWoohoo@pool-108-38-175-139.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:10:36 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@erudite.anarchism.is] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:10:36 -!- fmu [~^fmu@unaffiliated/fmu] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:10:36 -!- rotty [rotty@yade.xx.vu] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:10:36 -!- jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:10:36 -!- SHODAN [~shozan@fsf/member/shodan] has quit [*.net *.split] 01:10:43 -!- jdoles_ is now known as jdoles 01:10:43 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:10:50 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:10:54 ivan [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 01:11:10 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.164.190.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:11:58 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:12:32 -!- brighid_ [~krinn@69.46.88.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:12:36 fmu [~^fmu@unaffiliated/fmu] has joined #lisp 01:12:40 sauerkrause [~krause@cpe-24-55-25-199.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:12:53 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:13:06 -!- Mandus_ [~aasmundo@oro.simula.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:13:20 is there a way to make slime-sync-package-and-default-directory work with quicklisp in other to find the package? 01:13:24 brighid [~krinn@69.46.88.22] has joined #lisp 01:13:42 Mandus [~aasmundo@oro.simula.no] has joined #lisp 01:14:19 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 01:14:26 PuercoPop: what do you mean? 01:14:43 krsree [~krsree@106.51.152.74] has joined #lisp 01:15:33 Hydan [~hydan@ip-89-103-110-5.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 01:15:42 -!- ozialien [~ernest@ip98-167-217-56.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:15:56 -!- SquidTamer [~s@198.23.138.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:16:08 for example I start slime and I do C-c C-~ and it says that the package in the in-package statement at the start of my file is not found. But if I quickload the system that has the package then C-c C-~ it works perfectly. Is there a way to make slime find the packages defined on each quicklisp system? 01:16:21 Squid_Tamer [~s@198.23.138.21] has joined #lisp 01:16:34 loke [~loke@203.127.16.194] has joined #lisp 01:17:04 Tarential [~Tarential@li421-205.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 01:17:49 -!- chu_ is now known as chu 01:17:53 C-c C-~ is undefined in my slime, what does it do? 01:18:20 slime-sync-package-and-default-directory 01:18:39 which is basically so I don't have to type the (in-package :blah) in the repl 01:19:20 -!- brighid [~krinn@69.46.88.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:19:49 brighid [~krinn@69.46.88.22] has joined #lisp 01:19:53 but what does it sync your slime with? 01:20:13 PuercoPop: that data could be gathered, but hasn't been, yet 01:20:17 i only used ,cd a few times 01:20:32 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 01:20:39 sid_cypher: It only works in lisp file buffers. it syncs the lisp working directory and the repl value of *package* with the file being edited 01:20:54 -!- knob5312 [~knob@adsl-64-237-232-27.prtc.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:21:00 Xach: i see, thanks. i'll try it out 01:21:32 robot-beethoven, did you figure it out/get what you need? 01:22:45 zRecursive [~czsq888@110.188.70.167] has joined #lisp 01:23:21 -!- zRecursive [~czsq888@110.188.70.167] has left #lisp 01:23:41 *PuercoPop* nods 01:24:26 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:24:56 I assume it would be problematic due to more than one system contributing the the package hence the order would be ambiguous 01:25:12 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:25:31 oh cool, slime-sync-package-and-default-directory worked 01:25:32 joast [~rick@76.178.135.192] has joined #lisp 01:25:33 leo2007 [~leo@182.48.101.29] has joined #lisp 01:25:46 nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has joined #lisp 01:25:54 PuercoPop: usually only one system is involved in defining a package. however different systems might define packages with the same name. 01:26:06 but different contents and purposes. 01:26:27 ikki [~ikki@187.208.219.191] has joined #lisp 01:26:29 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:27:17 -!- gf3 [~gf3@aether.gf3.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:28:02 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 01:28:24 -!- net4all [~net4all@bacon.lysator.liu.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:28:32 net4all [~net4all@bacon.lysator.liu.se] has joined #lisp 01:28:41 -!- chturne [~charles@host81-157-142-137.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:28:51 -!- Kenjin_ [~kenjin@gw-isr.deec.uc.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:29:13 Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 01:30:03 gf3 [~gf3@aether.gf3.ca] has joined #lisp 01:33:46 Xach but wouldn't they still be the same package both where to be loaded? 01:34:11 or is that where the using uninterned symbols as package names comes into play? 01:35:29 estebistec [~estebiste@cpe-72-133-228-205.kc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:36:39 PuercoPop: if they were both loaded, it would likely cause some damaging clobbering 01:36:47 or big warnings 01:37:08 -!- nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:39:13 nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has joined #lisp 01:39:15 -!- nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:39:52 -!- fsmunoz [~fsmunoz@bl9-58-126.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 01:40:38 nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has joined #lisp 01:40:53 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-168-113-48.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:41:08 -!- nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has quit [Client Quit] 01:42:21 nightshade427 [nightshade@2600:3c02::f03c:91ff:feae:fb24] has joined #lisp 01:42:39 *PuercoPop* nods 01:45:03 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 01:45:36 james111111 [~james1111@50-81-225-6.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 01:46:44 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.225.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:47:19 -!- lduros` [~user@pool-108-52-158-77.phlapa.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:47:50 ISF [~ivan@187.106.24.203] has joined #lisp 01:48:37 Z_Mass [~zmassia@bas1-cornwall24-1279267682.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:54:43 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 01:57:34 paddymahoney [~patrick@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 01:57:53 kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 02:05:38 lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:28 -!- james111111 [~james1111@50-81-225-6.client.mchsi.com] has left #lisp 02:06:31 -!- krsree [~krsree@106.51.152.74] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:06:39 -!- JasonFelice [~jfelice@152.160.30.13] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:08:02 Xach: thanks for quickdocs.org. 02:08:25 DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.7.51] has joined #lisp 02:08:36 How much more joy can a Commercial implementation such as lispworks bring to lisp hacking? 02:08:53 I am thinking of getting lispworks in near future. 02:09:31 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 02:10:39 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:13:14 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 02:13:44 leo2007: knowledgeworks and capi are pretty cool. 02:13:52 leo2007: I didn't make quickdocs.org, I'm just a fan. 02:16:38 FlyingBobaldi [~ryan@63-153-69-21.hlna.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:11 Hello everyone. Does anyone have any video footage of a real Lisp machine? I'd be interested in learning more but there is very little footage of them. 02:19:32 Bike_ [~Glossina@174-25-52-232.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:11 Like a horror-movie monster, the lispm legend is probably more effective the less you see of them. 02:20:21 -!- hashcat [~chatzilla@106.107.133.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:20:22 zophy [~sy@host-30-23-2-96.midco.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:53 -!- Bike [~Glossina@174-25-53-240.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:22:41 michaeljmcd [~michael@ip70-178-95-137.ks.ks.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:34 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 02:25:38 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xx6QPgi7RSQ Here is ... something but it is not in English. 02:27:38 Xach: thanks for that. How does LW compare to Franz's? 02:28:35 FlyingBobaldi: there is open genera and some people have gotten it to run on a virtual machine. 02:30:17 @leo2007, thanks. Hopefully I can make a Debian virtual Lisp Machine 02:30:29 jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:12 ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:03 james111 [~james1@50-81-225-6.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 02:32:04 kanru [~kanru@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:33:16 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 02:34:49 -!- jlongster [~user@pool-96-238-181-209.rcmdva.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:36:14 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 02:37:06 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 02:37:18 -!- ebobby [~fms@173.228.63.34] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:38:13 leo2007: quickdocs is from fukumachi and the Japanese CL hackers. They are doing also some interesting webframeworks. 02:39:32 PuercoPop: thanks 02:42:25 -!- james111 [~james1@50-81-225-6.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:42:34 zRecursive [~czsq888@110.188.70.167] has joined #lisp 02:42:44 -!- Hydan [~hydan@ip-89-103-110-5.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:43:58 -!- DataLinkDroid [~DataLinkD@1.148.7.51] has quit [Quit: Bye] 02:45:02 jdtw [~user@50.46.149.185] has joined #lisp 02:46:23 -!- jdtw [~user@50.46.149.185] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:47:38 -!- arademaker [~user@177.142.17.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:48:04 kvsari [~kvsari@119-173-227-3.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:49:31 Does anyone one has a particular pattern for running fiveam tests from the command-line? 02:49:58 PuercoPop, leo2007, I'd say it's almost exclusively from Fukamachi. He write quickdocs, clack/caveman/etc 02:50:41 Hi, I have a very basic question to ask. I'm a lisp newbie. Is there a newbie channel or is this one it? 02:50:54 go ahead 02:51:03 PuercoPop: uh, I just call run! I guess 02:51:13 Thanks, I can't get lispbuilder-sdl working. I have the library loaded with quicklisp and initializing SDL works but calling (sdl:window 800 600) results in Required argument is not a symbol: (LISPBUILDER-SDL:WINDOW 800 600) 02:51:14 kvsari: people here are always very friendly to lisp newbies ime 02:51:49 Using SBCL by the way. 02:52:51 Quadrescence: yeah, I am a big fukumachi fan. Coming from a flask background I find ningle very easy to understand, plus he writes a lot of documentation. Quite more than the average in the CL community 02:53:20 PuercoPop, he also wrote most of the web stuff for quickutil 02:53:31 *zRecursive* i want to like SBCL but i have been used to CLISP :) 02:53:58 kvsari: calling where? just (sdl:window 800 600) on the repl? 02:54:02 Bike: that thing is that I can't reference suites I get a variable unbound 02:54:08 I initially learnt using CLISP but opted to use SBCL on changing to stumpwm 02:54:36 doomlord [~doomlod@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 02:54:37 Bike: I tried on the repl and from loading from a file 02:54:55 PuercoPop: the suite name is quoted isn't it 02:55:26 james111111 [~james1111@50-81-225-6.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 02:56:40 -!- james111111 [~james1111@50-81-225-6.client.mchsi.com] has left #lisp 02:56:47 Not in inside the lisp files. IIRC 5am sets up some data-structres to keep track of the suites and tests that are opaque to the user. 02:57:03 -!- breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 02:57:11 i mean, in run!, which is just a function after all 02:57:34 leo2007: I have never used allegro CL 02:57:55 Here is the file I'm loading http://paste.lisp.org/+2YE8. 02:58:02 Any lisp source code that you are particularly fond of? 02:58:07 Xach: OK. 02:58:20 kvsari: your defun is wrong. 02:58:37 kvsari: (defun fnname args ...body...) 02:58:59 ok... 02:59:36 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 02:59:36 Bike: now no tests ran, I think I am going to defined a test-runner function and exported it as I did previously 02:59:53 Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 02:59:55 Bike: Thanks. Got it. 03:03:13 That did it. 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are there any hooks to run some code when a particular asdf system is loaded, aside from just adding an :around or :after method to some asdf GF? and if :around/:after is the right way, which GF should it be added to? 07:54:40 -!- |3b|` is now known as |3b| 07:54:52 *|3b|* thought i'd done that before, but can't find it now 07:58:44 -!- lyanchih [~lyanchih@202.39.219.19] has quit [Quit: lyanchih] 08:00:09 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:01:11 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@h081217181184.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: fsvehla] 08:01:45 lyanchih [~lyanchih@118-163-141-228.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 08:02:17 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 08:10:46 -!- Vutral [~ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has quit [Excess Flood] 08:13:44 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755b66.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:16:41 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abok15.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:16:50 Vutral 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[~fsvehla@178.115.250.136.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has joined #lisp 08:42:17 przl [~przlrkt@p5B29816D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 08:42:31 -!- paddymahoney [~patrick@198-84-186-52.cpe.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:44:25 -!- fsvehla [~fsvehla@178.115.250.136.wireless.dyn.drei.com] has quit [Client Quit] 08:45:22 -!- AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@99-136-83-34.lightspeed.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:46:06 CrazyEddy [~plantless@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 08:48:10 -!- CrazyWoods [~nowolfer@117.30.35.130] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:51:06 -!- nug700_ [~nug700@174-26-159-207.phnx.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 08:52:39 -!- codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:59:09 protist [~protist@69.172.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 08:59:55 dotemacs [uid801@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jrhufvifevvguvmd] has joined #lisp 09:03:09 -!- protist [~protist@69.172.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:07:54 -!- ski [~md9slj@t-2020-07.studat.chalmers.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:09:45 agumonkey [~agu@194.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 09:12:15 -!- coder` [~user@dslb-094-217-175-215.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:12:19 protist [~protist@139.172.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 09:16:17 ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has joined #lisp 09:17:57 -!- protist [~protist@139.172.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:18:56 Hello! 09:19:56 I have strange problem with UTF characters in lispworks + slime. Test: (let ((x #\)) (break) (print x)) 09:20:17 in backtrace, I see: system::x = #> 40100B09B1> 09:22:27 Does anyone know how can I fix this? Is this because of any missing configuration on my side? 09:22:59 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.218.153.105] has joined #lisp 09:22:59 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.218.153.105] has quit [Changing host] 09:22:59 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:29:54 -!- zophy [~sy@host-30-23-2-96.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:30:03 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 09:32:26 mrSpec: Yes, I know how to fix that 09:32:59 loke: cool! Could you tell me? ;) 09:33:42 It was a slime setting. Hang on 09:36:22 (setq slime-net-coding-system 'utf-8-unix) before slime-setup 09:36:30 right, that's the one 09:36:43 hum I have it already 09:36:50 I'm not sure why I don't have it in my init.el anymore, and even more confused as to why it works for me. :-) 09:36:50 I dont have this problem with SBCL+Slime 09:37:03 ok, can't help with lispworks-specific problems, sorry 09:37:47 Isn't LW using UTF-8 by default perhaps? 09:39:27 codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has joined #lisp 09:39:40 hah, I think here is the problem. I've just googled that lw chars are base-char by default and dont support utf-8. 09:40:21 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:41:30 that doesn't sound like a sane thing to google 09:42:20 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-vlzkpieserlddwjq] has joined #lisp 09:42:21 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-vlzkpieserlddwjq] has quit [Changing host] 09:42:21 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 09:46:09 mrSpec, did you do this already: http://symbo1ics.com/blog/?p=1270 09:47:01 yup, thanks 09:47:10 I've just found: (lw:set-default-character-element-type 'lw:simple-char) 09:47:27 looks like it solves the issue. testing 09:49:07 I don't have that, yet 09:49:08 CL-USER> (code-char 1078) 09:49:08 #\ 09:50:11 this example works for me too 09:50:51 Quadrescence: how about (let ((x (code-char 1078))) (print x)) ? Does it work for you? 09:51:57 yes 09:52:33 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-46-172.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:52:47 and, CL-USER> (let (( 2)) (*  )) 09:52:47 4 09:52:54 :) thx 09:53:11 so something is wrong in my config not in lispworks :( 09:55:51 BeLucid [~belucid@cpe-066-057-034-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:56:26 mrSpec, What OS/version? 09:57:25 monokai [~monokai@217-67-201-252.itsa.net.pl] has joined #lisp 09:57:43 kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has joined #lisp 09:58:14 Debian, lw 6.1 09:59:36 -!- harish [harish@nat/redhat/x-zntlbvcbledbevyc] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:59:52 I'd like to start learning lisp, but I'm on a Windows machine. Is it a better idea to use Windows releases of SBCL and Emacs, or set up Ubuntu in VirtualBox and use SBCL & Emacs in a linux environment? 10:00:42 oki, for now problem is mostly solved. everything works except print to standard-output ;) 10:00:43 monokai: it depends on how comfortable you are with working in a virtual linux environment. in general, things work smoother on linux. 10:01:05 Quadrescence: so (let (( 2)) (*  )) works for me too! 10:01:48 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:02:21 *|3b|* finds windows emacs + msys to be close enough to unix to not bother with a VM (i'd probably reboot to linux for any long term work though) 10:03:05 *|3b|* might go with ccl on windows over sbcl at the moment though, windows sbcl doesn't like my system 10:03:07 |3b|: i did not have many problems with clozure cl and emacs on windows either. 10:03:29 mrSpec, so this fails? (write-string (make-string 1 :initial-element (code-char 1078) :element-type 'character)) 10:03:43 statl [~statl@dslb-094-218-238-196.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:03:50 Quadrescence: yes 10:03:59 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.218.134.161] has joined #lisp 10:04:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.218.134.161] has quit [Changing host] 10:04:00 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:04:08 but without #'make-string its ok. 10:07:39 char-code-limit ? 10:11:18 Huh, solved. after lw:set-default-character-element-type was set, I should have restarted slime! 10:11:27 all works fine now. Thanks guys! 10:12:17 Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has joined #lisp 10:14:17 Thra11 [~Thra11@87.115.247.39] has joined #lisp 10:16:35 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:17:50 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:20:17 setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.138] has joined #lisp 10:20:46 -!- codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:35:57 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:39:07 dim: your blog is 404 10:43:04 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 10:46:56 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:47:24 codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has joined #lisp 10:47:56 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:48:19 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 10:49:21 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 10:49:24 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:50:06 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 10:56:07 miql [~miql@ip68-98-19-126.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 10:56:42 foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has joined #lisp 10:56:48 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:58:17 -!- ``Erik_ is now known as ``Erik 11:02:09 ouch. 11:02:12 should be ok now 11:02:18 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-178-139.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:02:37 just switched to a new publishing software and forgot to cl.xml -> common-lisp.xml when pushing it live 11:03:14 zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has joined #lisp 11:03:22 btw, that's content for another article on the planet, as it's a website thing written in CL with both a dynamic rendering and a static website compiler :) 11:03:30 Xach: is it working now? 11:04:23 -!- codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:09:26 nialo [nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 11:13:52 harish [~harish@cm32.zeta224.maxonline.com.sg] has joined #lisp 11:15:28 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-77-150.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:21:28 tankrim [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/tankrim] has joined #lisp 11:21:34 -!- ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:24:40 jewel [~jewel@105-236-178-139.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:26:33 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 11:26:45 I'll have to check a little later 11:27:56 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 241 seconds] 11:28:42 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.119.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:30:17 sure, thanks already for the heads up 11:31:53 peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has joined #lisp 11:45:37 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B29816D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:55:37 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 11:56:57 breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:59:53 -!- rvchangue [~rvchangue@unaffiliated/rvchangue] has quit [Quit: ] 12:05:46 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755b66.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 12:13:00 codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has joined #lisp 12:13:02 przl [~przlrkt@p5B29816D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 12:17:19 -!- zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:20:48 knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has joined #lisp 12:22:28 Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 12:23:28 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 12:29:45 `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has joined #lisp 12:31:38 -!- michaeljmcd [~michael@ip70-178-95-137.ks.ks.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:34:00 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-10-232.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:35:30 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c2431.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:42:19 pierre1 [~pierre@5070B880.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has joined #lisp 12:42:23 Hi all 12:42:45 I have a strange problem, seems I cannot catch an error within print-unreadable-object: 12:42:49 http://paste.lisp.org/+2YEC 12:43:20 have I missed something, or can't error be caught in some cases? 12:43:37 <|3b|> did you mean to do something with the error? 12:43:41 (try (make-instance 'foo) ) 12:44:13 pierre1: it just calls your constantly and then proceeds to invoke the debugger 12:44:27 <|3b|> don't think return value of handler does anything, you need to call a restart or do a non-local exit 12:44:28 if you want to prevent that, you need to do a non-local exit 12:44:45 Okaaaay 12:44:49 <|3b|> (or 'invoke' or whatever it is you do with restarts) 12:44:53 alternatively, use handler-case, if that's what you want 12:45:20 pierre1: you might want to avoid unbound slots instead. 12:45:29 stassats: actually, my first try used handler-case and didn't work either 12:45:47 pierre1: you didn't use it right then 12:45:53 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 12:45:54 but it's best to call slot-bound-p 12:45:59 lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has joined #lisp 12:46:11 slot-boundp 12:46:26 clhs is bloody consistent 12:46:39 BTW, is there maybe a best way to know about non-direct ancestors apart from using typep on an instance? 12:47:10 using mop, class-precedence-list 12:48:54 aaaand I read the functions list too quickly 12:48:57 thanks a lot 12:49:14 I was expecting I'm trying to fix a problem I don't need to have 12:49:18 (mop is best accessed through closer-mop) 12:49:26 yeah, that's the one I use 12:52:15 Lefeni [~Lefeni@c-d24be555.143-16-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 12:56:44 natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:59:01 -!- nialo [nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:00:39 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:07:12 chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has joined #lisp 13:07:21 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 13:08:00 -!- natechan [~natechan@c-71-56-124-186.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ["Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com"]] 13:08:34 -!- codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:11:01 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:12:31 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:13:33 <|3b|> what was the library for extracting various sized/endian values from an octet vector? 13:13:59 nibbles? 13:14:06 <|3b|> yeah, that sounds right 13:14:44 chturne [~charles@host81-157-142-137.range81-157.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:15:49 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:17:20 *Xach* is your personal quickdocs.org 13:18:02 bobbysmith007: what's the name of your version again? 13:18:10 *|3b|* will try to remember to look there next time 13:18:16 AlbireoX [~AlbireoX@99.136.83.34] has joined #lisp 13:18:26 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 13:19:18 *|3b|* likes how it classifies ironclad as a 'graphic' library :) 13:19:35 |3b|, it categorizes based off of cliki 13:19:49 *|3b|* suspects it just matched off 'cryptographic' 13:22:11 codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has joined #lisp 13:22:17 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:22:38 I updated http://quickutil.org according to a good amount of user feedback. (e.g., let us specify our own package! advertising UTILIZE as the main functionality is a Bad Idea!) 13:23:12 fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:23:36 (which entailed rewriting all of the manual) 13:24:04 BitPuffin [~quassel@s193-13-104-175.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 13:24:47 victor_lowther [~victorlow@143.166.116.80] has joined #lisp 13:26:59 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 13:28:13 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-170-146.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:37:42 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:38:19 -!- daem0n [popoki@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:38:58 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has joined #lisp 13:41:04 billstclair [~billstcla@p-69-195-59-108.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 13:41:04 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-69-195-59-108.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:41:04 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:45:49 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:47:20 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-77-150.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:47:45 -!- segv- [~mb@95-91-241-75-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:48:21 -!- ahungry [~null@99-40-10-216.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:48:43 ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has joined #lisp 13:48:43 nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@129.10.166.144] has joined #lisp 13:48:53 Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has joined #lisp 13:49:04 hi 13:49:15 -!- Kruppe [~user@CPE602ad0938e9a-CM602ad0938e97.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:49:52 daem0n [popoki@2607:f5a0:0:162:225:90ff:fe57:5e05] has joined #lisp 13:49:53 hello 13:49:55 paddymahoney [~patrick@24.137.221.230] has joined #lisp 13:50:06 -!- daem0n is now known as Guest8742 13:50:18 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:51:09 -!- ISF [~ivan@187.106.24.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:52:12 segv- [~mb@95-91-241-75-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:54:57 ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has joined #lisp 13:54:58 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:56:19 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@c-24-143-118-11.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:56:42 -!- kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:58:10 arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-krctudmrqskkuphv] has joined #lisp 13:59:03 xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has joined #lisp 14:00:13 Nisstyre [~yours@oftn/member/Nisstyre] has joined #lisp 14:01:24 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:01:47 -!- bitonic [~user@90.205.181.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:01:49 -!- xaxisx [~xaxisx@24.137.208.218] has quit [Client Quit] 14:01:59 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 14:02:39 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:40 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B29816D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:05:14 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:05:38 przl [~przlrkt@p5B29816D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:07:29 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:07:34 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:07:51 spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 14:09:07 teggi [~teggi@123.20.119.146] has joined #lisp 14:09:52 -!- fridim_ [~fridim@65.93.78.88] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:10:10 -!- hamroctopus [~user@moat3.centtech.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:10:37 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:11:38 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:12:48 Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has joined #lisp 14:13:19 bitonic [~user@90.205.181.109] has joined #lisp 14:13:41 stardiviner [~quassel@122.236.243.119] has joined #lisp 14:15:44 natechan [~natechan@50-192-61-45-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:22 -!- pierre1 [~pierre@5070B880.static.ziggozakelijk.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:19:18 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:19:55 aftershave [~textual@h-123-168-44.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 14:20:02 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:20:33 what is better to have an optimized code? DECLAIM out of the function? DECLARE inside? Both? 14:21:16 declaim usually extends to the code which calls the function 14:21:36 *|3b|* usually mostly uses declare, possibly with some declaim inline 14:22:21 and it's hard to declare the return type with declare 14:22:43 <|3b|> yeah, wasn't sure which sorts of declare/declaim qualities were being asked about 14:23:02 and declaim only works for arguments and results 14:23:11 so, they're not at all equivalent 14:23:24 I'm asking this because of this comment: http://nklein.com/2009/06/optimizing-lisp-some-more/#comment-116 14:24:33 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:24:35 *|3b|* avoids (safety 0) in general 14:25:18 Denommus: the difference there is that Clozure (at that time at least) didn't pay attention to the argument types in the (DECLAIM (FTYPE )) line 14:25:39 patrickwonders: now it does? 14:26:06 SBCL did. So, for SBCL, the DECLARE lines inside were redundant for SBCL. 14:26:51 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2-dev] 14:26:54 I don't think CCL pays attention to the argument types in the (DECLAIM (FTYPE )) line but I haven't followed exactly what's changed and there have been two releases of CCL since that post. 14:27:00 (at least two) 14:27:12 in general, you can't optimize code equally well for multiple implementations 14:27:16 y5h [~textual@116.36.42.92] has joined #lisp 14:27:27 *patrickwonders* nods 14:27:34 hm. I don't really use Clozure, I'm asking more because I want the most standard option 14:27:51 *|3b|* would use declare to start with 14:28:10 *patrickwonders* agrees with |3b| 14:28:16 <|3b|> if nothing else you are less likely to change it and forget to recompile the separate declaim 14:28:24 ok, the two implementations I use the most are SBCL (for scripts) and ECL (for embedded code). What problems would I have with ECL? 14:28:44 Though the (DECLAIM (FTYPE )) does help in places your function gets called. 14:28:57 <|3b|> all implementations are free to completely ignore (most) declarations 14:29:02 |3b|: I could put declaim and the function inside of a progn to make sure I always compile both. But... yeah, that would be ugly 14:29:10 -!- zolk3ri [~zolk3ri@unaffiliated/zolk3ri] has left #lisp 14:29:44 *|3b|* usually inlines stuff where the ftype would matter anyway 14:29:47 even if you redefine the declaim, call sites won't be recompiled 14:29:56 so, you need to recompile everything 14:30:20 *|3b|* admits that makes the justification of not needing to recompile the declaim less valid :) 14:30:38 stassats: got it 14:30:59 will declaim work if I call SBCL with the --script option? 14:30:59 anyway, the less declarations, the better 14:31:02 *patrickwonders* has often thought the arcana of optimizing for different compilers would be a good topic for an ebook... 14:31:29 stassats: why? 14:31:54 Denommus: fewer opportunities to be wrong. 14:31:55 -!- spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has left #lisp 14:32:15 the code is more clear 14:32:29 and some implementations have good type inference 14:33:22 sbcl has a sb-ext::*derive-function-types* switch for enabling some more 14:34:16 I didn't know SBCL had type inference. sb-ext::*derive-function-types* enable it? 14:35:09 -!- xificurC [xificurC@nat/ibm/x-ukowzsdwtsocnutt] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 14:35:26 no, it's always enabled 14:35:43 sb-ext::*derive-function-types* does what its name suggests 14:35:48 _d3f [~gnu@94.242.252.66] has joined #lisp 14:35:56 and its docstring explains 14:36:32 zeroish [~zeroish@135.207.174.50] has joined #lisp 14:36:35 drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:55 I will check it. Thanks 14:38:02 patrickwonders: yes, it would be a great topic 14:38:18 there's not that much compiled info about that 14:41:28 *patrickwonders* misspoke before Clozure has had 6 releases since that post, not 2 as I said before but still don't think it uses the argument types in the (DECLAIM (FTYPE )) as if they are (DECLARE (TYPE ))'s inside the function 14:41:32 patrickwonders: well. I try to do my part, for SBCL. 14:41:42 sometimes using THE can make a significant difference as well BTW, where it's needed 14:41:46 patrickwonders: the two aren't equivalent. 14:42:16 pierre1 [~pierre@samuel.wi.th.vu.nl] has joined #lisp 14:42:19 The former only refers to the arguments passed to the function, and the latter to all values bound to the variables. 14:42:24 Indeed, pkhuong, I love reading your posts on optimizing different things and SBCL does do a great job even without decls.... 14:43:40 *patrickwonders* nods 14:43:41 how do I declare a custom class? 14:43:54 Denommus: what do you mean? 14:43:56 Denommus: what's a custom class? 14:44:08 and declare what? 14:44:25 I have a function that has a sqlite:sqlite-handle argument 14:44:37 but if I put it in the declaim, I have an error 14:44:41 if you're talking about type declarations, then they're only for types, but, classes also double as types 14:44:49 Denommus: class names are types. What is the error? 14:45:00 unknown type specifier: (SQLITE:SQLITE-HANDLE) 14:45:05 Yes but a (DECLAIM (FTYPE )) could potentially cover all of the (DECLARE (TYPE )) lines that would go on the first line after a function's docstring (except maybe for &AUX and &KEY vars, right?) 14:45:35 patrickwonders: not with assignment 14:45:45 should I eval the (ql:quickload 'sqlite3) at compile time? 14:45:48 Denommus: why did you add parentheses? 14:45:55 pkhuong: that shouldn't matter 14:46:06 pkhuong: not sure what you mean "with assignment" 14:46:08 Also, yes, the class should be defined for that to work well 14:46:19 patrickwonders: (lambda (x) (setf x 42) ...) 14:46:32 pkhuong: because I still don't know exactly how the syntax works. Shame on me 14:46:40 or it may matter, it doesn't matter for compound types 14:47:20 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@78-134-82-178.v4.ngi.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:48:21 in any case, they are superfluous 14:48:50 pkhoung: either way though.. would it make a difference whether you said (DECLAIM (FTYPE (FUNCTION (FIXNUM) FIXNUM) FOO) or (DEFUN FOO (X) (DECLARE (TYPE FIXNUM X)) (SETF X 42))? 14:49:43 there's a distinction between SSC and TRC (the real compiler) 14:50:16 patrickwonders: the difference is I can declaim (ftype (function ((not (eql 42))) ...) ...). 14:50:46 but you can't declare that? 14:51:30 zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has joined #lisp 14:51:33 patrickwonders: 42 is clearly not of type (not (eql 42)). 14:51:54 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:52:16 Yes but you can't put a DECLARE right after the SETF anyway, right? There are only certain legal places for it. 14:52:37 clhs locally 14:52:37 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_locall.htm 14:52:44 Or does the declare indicate that X will have that type as long as it's in scope? 14:53:50 Is DECLARE a statement about X then and DECLAIM  FTYPE just a declaration about what X will initially be? 14:55:13 -!- Cymew [~user@fw01d.snowmen.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:56:19 -!- y5h [~textual@116.36.42.92] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 14:56:19 "an ftype declaration for a function describes calls to the function, not the actual definition of the function." 14:56:22 protist [~protist@6.172.69.111.dynamic.snap.net.nz] has joined #lisp 14:57:09 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:57:22 Yes but I thought a DECLARE only made a statement about the type currently bound not the type that it will be for the rest of its scope... 14:58:28 you could read the clhs 14:58:41 "In particular, values assigned to the variables by setq, as well as the initial values of the vars must be of the specified typespec" 14:58:47 In which case, I don't see the difference between (declaim (ftype (function (fixnum) t) foo)) (defun foo (x) (setf x 42) ) and (defun foo (x) (declare (type fixnum x)) (setf x 42) )) 14:59:41 stassats: just re-skimmed the declare/declaim/proclaim/locally pages and didn't catch the line you quoted. 14:59:43 Thanks... 15:00:01 right, knowing where to look is important too 15:00:04 clhs type 15:00:04 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/d_type.htm 15:00:10 for the setq one 15:00:19 clhs type/d 15:00:20 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for type/d. 15:00:55 clhs function/t 15:00:55 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/t_fn.htm 15:01:05 for ftype 15:01:29 -!- hugod [~user@76.65.143.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:01:58 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.218.149.0] has joined #lisp 15:01:58 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.218.149.0] has quit [Changing host] 15:01:58 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:02:10 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:02:50 I see the maintaining type information across setq wasn't something that I noticed before now I'm wondering how many "chances to be wrong" I've blown with that. 15:03:24 good thing setq is not needed often 15:03:32 i only use it inside loops 15:03:41 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-185-201-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:06 It doesn't seem like something I would stylistically do declare something a particular numeric type and then later use that var to hold a string or something but maybe I've cheated on the range of a number 15:04:50 if you want only the initial value to be affected, use (the type initial-value) 15:05:14 that's for let, not for parameters 15:05:31 and if you want to turn your code into a fruit salad 15:05:53 *patrickwonders* nod 15:06:17 (THE TYPE ) is slightly better looking than (COERCE  'TYPE) though... 15:06:34 patrickwonders: also totally different. 15:06:37 and it's different 15:06:46 *patrickwonders* yes... 15:07:01 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@158.127.31.162] has quit [Quit: Must not waste too much time here...] 15:07:22 redSnow [~Thunderbi@112.96.168.64] has joined #lisp 15:07:25 Both end up appearing in code that's trying to be strict about types though and both feel like a hundred-pound weight around the neck when trying to read the code. 15:07:45 coerce is usually used only for coercions, so it's required 15:08:05 unlike the, which is optional and can be ignored by the compiler 15:08:22 *patrickwonders* nods 15:08:59 declaim didn't do much for my code. So I just generated an image of it and called it a day 15:09:24 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has joined #lisp 15:09:49 *stassats* doesn't see the connection 15:10:17 stassats: there isn't a connection. I'm just saying that I generated an image of my code as it is and called it a day 15:10:40 krishnak [~krishnak@63.251.54.158] has joined #lisp 15:13:00 zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 15:13:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:13:38 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-77-150.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:13:40 -!- aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:14:08 -!- pierre1 [~pierre@samuel.wi.th.vu.nl] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.1] 15:14:21 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.218.149.0] has joined #lisp 15:14:21 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.218.149.0] has quit [Changing host] 15:14:21 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:14:28 aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 15:15:39 JasonFelice [~jfelice@198.208.72.254] has joined #lisp 15:16:38 -!- Guest8742 is now known as daem0n 15:16:39 -!- daem0n [popoki@2607:f5a0:0:162:225:90ff:fe57:5e05] has quit [Changing host] 15:16:39 daem0n [popoki@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has joined #lisp 15:16:49 for some reason, calling SBCL with --no-linedit makes me unable to --eval SB-EXT:SAVE-LISP-AND-DIE 15:16:59 So, it's neat in CL that you can (setf (aref a 1) 10), but is there a way to (some-kind-of-let ((loc (aref a 1))) (setf loc 10))? 15:17:12 clhs symbol-macrolet 15:17:12 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_symbol.htm 15:18:29 Hrmm. OK, that makes sense. But you can't actually pass around the reference, huh. 15:18:56 no, it's resolve at compile-time 15:18:57 Is SETF a macro which figures out things like AREF itself, rather than evaluating them? 15:18:59 resolved 15:19:02 you can pass closures 15:19:15 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:20:10 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 15:20:58 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:21:31 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@195.225.68.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:22:11 JasonFelice: yes. 15:24:20 morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755b66.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:30 hiato [~hiato@105-236-187-147.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:25:16 phf [~phf@mail.rslstoploss.com] has joined #lisp 15:25:46 Xach: W00t. Level up. 15:25:54 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:26:05 <|3b|> more like setf is a macro which can be told about things like aref, rather than trying to figure them out on its own 15:26:39 |3b|: That was next question. But I'm not there yet. :) 15:26:47 -!- zickzackv [~faot@port-92-198-30-130.static.qsc.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:27:22 -!- arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-krctudmrqskkuphv] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:28:56 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.119.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:29:04 -!- phf [~phf@mail.rslstoploss.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:29:07 -!- Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:31:51 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@50-196-148-102-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 15:31:57 phf [~phf@75.150.171.217] has joined #lisp 15:33:04 -!- ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:33:24 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 15:33:30 Is there a recommended place to go and read about optimizing common lisp, or is the information scattered around the web? 15:34:11 Mon_Ouie [~Mon_Ouie@subtle/user/MonOuie] has joined #lisp 15:34:45 bejer: scattered. the techniques vary by implementation, too. the way you'd get e.g. fast SBCL code won't necessarily get you fast code elsewhere. 15:34:53 -!- hiato [~hiato@105-236-187-147.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Quit: Nothing so gives the illusion of intelligence as personal association with large sums.] 15:35:33 it can sometimes be helpful to post code and explain what your goals are and solicit feedback. 15:39:00 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 15:39:26 bejer: Actually, Paradigms of AI Programming has some broadly-applicable and timeless CL optimization tips 15:39:52 http://norvig.com/Lisp-retro.html -- see "What lessons are in PAIP?" 15:40:19 smazga [~acrid@64.55.45.194] has joined #lisp 15:40:21 usually it's "write lots of optimized code" 15:40:46 my favourite optimization technique is improving the compiler 15:43:28 -!- iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:44:14 -!- phf [~phf@75.150.171.217] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:45:17 mine is deleting code. 15:45:27 iLogical [~iLogical@unaffiliated/ilogical] has joined #lisp 15:45:31 okay, thanks 15:46:14 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@138.23.57.82] has joined #lisp 15:47:05 bejer: Are you down to needing constant-time improvements (meaning, no algorithmic improvements available?). I love optimizing (but am a CL noob.) 15:50:59 *patrickwonders* used cl-optima for the first time yesterday can't wait to go back through and get rid of a bunch of ugly nested cond or cond+destructuring-bind constructs... 15:51:38 yati [~yati@122.169.67.54] has joined #lisp 15:52:01 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:52:09 loke_ [~elias@42.60.166.6] has joined #lisp 15:54:12 -!- ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:57:22 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:57:32 mmmm...cl-optima might be nice to use in cl-6502. i wonder how it would effect performance... 15:59:12 ogamita [~t@77.104.4.54] has joined #lisp 15:59:40 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 16:02:07 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:04:51 redline6561: cl-6502? OMG, you just made my day. 16:05:25 -!- monokai [~monokai@217-67-201-252.itsa.net.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:05:50 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.4.2-dev] 16:06:18 -!- mhi^ [~mhi@mhi.sanctioned.net] has left #lisp 16:09:16 ericmathison [~ericmathi@66-192-9-62.static.twtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:24 chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:10:55 k0001 [~k0001@host153.186-109-104.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 16:11:34 -!- codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:14:02 zophy [~sy@host-30-23-2-96.midco.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:15 codeburg [~folker@194.6.195.43] has joined #lisp 16:17:30 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:18:33 -!- JasonFelice [~jfelice@198.208.72.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:20:31 patrickwonders: did you use fare-quasiquote-optima too? :) 16:20:51 -!- codeburg 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[~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:15 -!- yati_ is now known as yati 17:05:47 :o so many equality tests 17:06:42 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:06:46 Hey guys, how do I fork a function call/run it in the background? 17:06:56 use threads 17:07:03 minion: bordeaux-threads 17:07:04 bordeaux-threads: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/bordeaux-threads 17:07:07 I'd like to make something that runs every 30 seconds inside a hunchentoot instance, is bordeaux threads the prime threader 17:07:14 ok looks like it, thanks stassats 17:07:24 bordeaux-threads is just a wrapper, mostly 17:07:32 minion: lparallel 17:07:32 lparallel: No definition was found in the first 5 lines of http://www.cliki.net/lparallel 17:11:38 eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-211-11-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has joined #lisp 17:12:40 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@201.164.190.199] has joined #lisp 17:13:15 kliph [~user@unaffiliated/kliph] has joined #lisp 17:13:49 JasonFelice [~jfelice@198.208.72.254] has joined #lisp 17:14:33 Vutral [ss@mirbsd/special/Vutral] has joined #lisp 17:16:26 -!- ck`` [~ck@dslb-094-219-226-213.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:16:58 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:17:11 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:18:42 -!- banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:21:49 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:12 -!- sellout is now known as Guest16775 17:22:19 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 17:22:31 -!- Guest16775 is now known as sellout- 17:22:37 well that was easy, make-thread, can't beat that 17:22:40 thanks again stassats 17:22:46 -!- Corvidium [~cosman246@D-173-250-182-86.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:22:53 is there any big disadvantage to using a recursive threaded function call vs an infinite loop? 17:23:38 ahungry: not that I know of 17:24:53 -!- nahiluhmot [~nahiluhmo@129.10.166.144] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:26:04 -!- zacharias [~zacharias@unaffiliated/zacharias] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:26:06 thanks Denommus 17:27:31 *|3b|* isn't sure what you mean by 'recursive threaded function call' 17:28:31 mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has joined #lisp 17:29:09 ahungry: blowing your stack is one of the disadvantages 17:30:57 banjara [~Adium@unaffiliated/banjara] has joined #lisp 17:32:42 rszeno [~rszeno@79.114.106.192] has joined #lisp 17:36:28 -!- redSnow [~Thunderbi@112.96.168.64] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:45:01 -!- ph88 [5597cc14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.151.204.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:45:20 Corvidium [~cosman246@D-173-250-202-161.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 17:45:33 -!- gko 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[~ericmathi@66-192-9-62.static.twtelecom.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:45 -!- zophy [~sy@host-30-23-2-96.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:22:10 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-77-150.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:24:05 mephisto [~mephisto@66.212.187.10.tor.pathcom.com] has joined #lisp 18:25:14 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.218.140.141] has joined #lisp 18:25:14 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.218.140.141] has quit [Changing host] 18:25:14 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 18:25:23 bhyde: no I didn't :) 18:25:40 zophy [~sy@host-30-23-2-96.midco.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:43 ejohnson [~Thunderbi@c-67-181-201-173.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:06 bhyde: ppcre in one package just plain optima in the other... 18:28:41 -!- nialo- [~yaaic@66-87-132-68.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:28:42 -!- seangrove 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Connection reset by peer] 18:43:18 -!- breakds [~breakds@cpe-74-79-147-26.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:45:13 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 18:45:15 Juanito-Jons [~jreynoso@187.208.216.55] has joined #lisp 18:46:48 -!- j_king_ is now known as j_king 18:48:09 -!- yrk [~user@pdpc/supporter/student/yrk] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:48:46 -!- zophy [~sy@host-30-23-2-96.midco.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:48:57 -!- mephisto [~mephisto@66.212.187.10.tor.pathcom.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:49:19 -!- mcsontos_ [~mcsontos@77.240.184.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:49:49 zophy [~sy@host-30-23-2-96.midco.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:27 ph88 [5597cc14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.151.204.20] has joined #lisp 18:50:38 -!- lduros [~user@fsf/member/lduros] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:50:40 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:51 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[nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:00:47 Guessing it's not common to break up a project into a bunch of packages. 19:02:19 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 19:06:15 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-2-105.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:06:31 JasonFelice: some lispers have a package for each file. 19:09:20 felideon: and not a file for each package? 19:09:58 -!- aftershave [~textual@h-123-168-44.a336.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: www.textualapp.com] 19:10:12 the possibilities are endless! 19:11:12 -!- chu [~user@unaffiliated/chu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:12:38 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 19:14:29 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:18:06 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:19:09 -!- Gooder [~user@38.155.200.192.client.dyn.strong-in144.as13926.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:19:19 OffsetGoose [46a7dff7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.167.223.247] has joined #lisp 19:20:32 Is this a good place to talk about lisp in general? 19:20:43 no 19:21:40 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 19:21:42 Is this a support channel? 19:22:19 stassats: Or only for CommonLisp? 19:24:43 -!- chameco [~samuel@cpe-67-241-240-138.stny.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:26:07 are you new to IRC? 19:26:55 _malicious [~cs@elderberry.cs.swarthmore.edu] has joined #lisp 19:27:51 dim: Only a few weeks. I'm new to #lisp 19:28:48 jeremyheiler [~jeremyhei@cpe-72-230-245-1.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:29:01 hint: have a look at the topic 19:29:25 barglfargl [~brglfrgl@66-168-203-39.dhcp.gsvl.ga.charter.com] has joined #lisp 19:30:41 -!- barglfargl [~brglfrgl@66-168-203-39.dhcp.gsvl.ga.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:31:15 -!- zophy [~sy@host-30-23-2-96.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:32:02 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:32:17 -!- jewel [~jewel@105-236-178-139.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:32:52 -!- eldariof [~CLD@pppoe-211-11-dyn-sr.volgaline.ru] has quit [] 19:33:54 What's a good CommonLisp compiler/interpreter (multi-platform, Unix-like&Windows, open source preferably)? I've used PLTScheme/Racket, but never CLisp. I have the manual though 19:34:19 sbcl 19:34:51 yeah apparently it's either SBCL or CCL given your requirements, these days, even though you might like ABCL if you need to inter-operate with Java 19:35:30 beware than scheme is very different from Common Lisp, and Racket not the same thing as a scheme 19:36:12 OffsetGoose: it's usually has a space, "Common Lisp" 19:36:15 or just CL 19:36:15 sbcl is 6-10 times faster then any lisp and scheme i tryed. No idea about ccl 19:36:51 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B29816D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:37:13 CCL is generally not as fast as SBCL (in my poor testing at least, and also from what I've been told here), but it's not that far from it either 19:37:15 dim, rszeno, stassats: Thanks. dim: I know there are tons of forks of the lisp-like languages, but what is the explicit difference between a LISP and a Scheme? 19:37:22 well, depends, do your own benchmarking 19:38:00 OffsetGoose: we're not talking about "a lisp" not even about LISP, but about Common Lisp, the one that's been standardized 19:39:41 OffsetGoose: the main difference is that Common Lisp is good and Scheme is bad 19:39:43 -!- Joreji [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:39:46 I know, perhaps I should be more specific, what are the major differences between CLisp and Scheme? Is it just libraries, or...? 19:40:14 przl [~przlrkt@p5B29816D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:40:22 CLisp is an implementation of the CL standard, Scheme is another completely different standard with many many implementations 19:42:18 stassats: x) dim: alright, thank you! What are some good starting projects to get familiar with the CommonLisp standards? 19:42:29 Besides factorial and the simple stuff? 19:42:31 there's only one 19:42:32 Like sockets? 19:42:53 a good way is just to write programs 19:43:19 yeah find yourself a project you want to implement and just implement it 19:43:27 avoid sockets and network stuff untill later is confusing 19:44:00 I began (very recently at that) with translating programs I read about on blog posts into CL to have a taste of it, then solved daily job problems with CL 19:44:02 and avoid listening to rszeno, if you need networking, use it 19:44:11 seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:20 yes true if you need not if you learn. listen to stassats who state that scheme is bad by default, :) 19:46:21 if it's off-topic, then it means that it's bad, simple as that 19:46:35 -!- inkjetunito [~hf999@unaffiliated/inkjetunit] has quit [Quit: qQQQ] 19:46:54 Haha will do, thank you all 19:47:29 I have a background in C#, C, Haskell, and Racket, so difficult projects shouldn't be too difficult 19:47:57 Hehe. 19:48:03 I think I just figured out what I sound like. 19:50:35 OffsetGoose, since Racket is pretty different in scheme world and the rest are imperative, try to not import style programmming from them in lisp because will make your life difficult. 19:51:31 Haskell is purely functional! Is functional/recursive the preferred CommonLisp paradigm? 19:51:58 no 19:52:03 and it's Common Lisp, not CommonLisp 19:52:24 So... what is Common Lisp's preferred paradigm? 19:52:32 the preferred cl paradigm is "get stuff done" 19:52:50 -!- seangrove [~user@c-69-181-197-122.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:53:03 what's the quote about lisp being only used in already? 19:53:09 which includes functional, imperative, declarative, meta, oo, or what tickles your fancy 19:53:15 http://bc.tech.coop/blog/041027.html -- found it 19:53:27 statssats is right, is more about abusing things and missconceptions 19:54:39 OffsetGoose: and it's a scientific fact that if lispers are the smuggest of them all 19:54:49 s/if// 19:55:09 -!- s00pcan [~chris@108-208-64-149.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:55:39 you will look smart and admired if you learn it 19:55:42 also, hip and cool 19:55:53 s00pcan [~chris@108-208-64-149.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:08 but you can't find a job, :) 19:56:09 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:56:24 you aren't looking hard enough 19:56:33 -!- zacts [~zacts@unaffiliated/zacts] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:56:33 Joreji [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 19:57:34 -!- s00pcan_ [~chris@108-208-64-149.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:57:37 I think I have a pretty good idea of what LISP can do. Flexible lists allows you to easily mutate data, like a list of list of points for a snake in the game snake, easy to declare functions allow you to build complexity off of preexisting functions 19:57:56 Oberon4278 [~dcrooksto@38.113.0.254] has joined #lisp 19:58:11 oh man, can you stop using all the wrong names 19:58:31 it's not LISP, it's either Lisp, or Common Lisp, or CL 19:58:45 -!- `fogus [~fogus@freedom.d-a-s.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:58:53 by lisp usually meaning common lisp, especially in this channel 19:58:55 Once again, I joined this channel 15 minutes ago. 19:59:00 lispy 19:59:16 jagaj_ [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:17 Joreji_ [~thomas@89.204.135.8] has joined #lisp 19:59:34 -!- jagaj [~AdmiralBu@pool-71-99-141-240.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:59:35 -!- jagaj_ is now known as jagaj 19:59:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.218.188.38] has joined #lisp 19:59:38 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@37.218.188.38] has quit [Changing host] 19:59:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 19:59:57 jtza8 [~jtza8@105-236-77-150.access.mtnbusiness.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:00:20 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:46 -!- przl [~przlrkt@p5B29816D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:01:12 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 20:01:20 -!- OffsetGoose [46a7dff7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.167.223.247] has left #lisp 20:02:30 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@46-65-36-47.zone16.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:06:01 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:06:27 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 20:06:28 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 20:06:49 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:07:15 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@89.204.135.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:07:37 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 20:08:00 Joreji_ [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 20:08:08 -!- Joreji [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:09:01 -!- JasonFelice [~jfelice@198.208.72.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:09:02 Joreji [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 20:09:17 -!- Karl_dscc [~localhost@ipdsw03.informatik.fh-schmalkalden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12:51 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:15:21 jangle [~jimmy1984@136.160.167.31] has joined #lisp 20:15:28 dsevilla [~user@66.Red-79-151-177.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:00 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.149.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 20:17:29 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 20:19:03 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-36-247-174.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:04 -!- Joreji [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:19:11 Joreji [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 20:21:31 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-25-205-111.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:21:39 -!- krishnak [~krishnak@63.251.54.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:21:47 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 20:21:54 nialo [nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:55 i'm trying to redefine a generic-function, and its associated methods, with consistently altered parameter lists, but keep running into the error: "The lambda list (...) is incompatible with existing methods of #<...>." 20:24:03 you may want to either delete all the methods first, or just fmakunbound the thing 20:24:09 (fmakunbound 'your-function) 20:24:28 i've tried a combination of the cumbersome (remove-method #'method (find-method #'method nil (list mapcar #find-class '(...)))) for each known method, but still get the error 20:24:28 deleting is best accomplished in the slime inspector 20:26:17 paul0 [~paul0@189.114.205.127.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 20:27:08 -!- Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:28:31 barglfargl [~brglfrgl@66-168-203-39.dhcp.gsvl.ga.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:28:47 krishnak [~krishnak@63.251.54.158] has joined #lisp 20:29:30 robot-beethoven: the gf knows its lambda-list, so simply removing all methods won't work. 20:30:09 billstclair: usually it will allow for redefinition 20:30:29 and ccl presents nice restarts 20:30:34 sbcl should do too 20:30:38 MusangKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 20:30:39 Yes. I use those restarts a lot 20:31:03 who wants a quick sbcl hack idea? add such restarts! 20:31:17 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@abok15.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:31:44 -!- DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:31:44 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:31:44 -!- Denommus [~user@gateway/tor-sasl/denommus] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:31:44 -!- CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@138.23.57.82] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:31:59 AeroNotix [~xeno@aboq51.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:33:30 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 20:33:30 Drone[02] [nitrodex@host86-129-250-80.range86-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:34:41 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-88-224.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:37:45 inkjetunito [~hf999@unaffiliated/inkjetunit] has joined #lisp 20:37:54 -!- inkjetunito [~hf999@unaffiliated/inkjetunit] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:37:54 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.149.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:37:54 -!- dsevilla [~user@66.Red-79-151-177.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:37:54 -!- joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:37:54 -!- s00pcan [~chris@108-208-64-149.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:37:54 -!- Oberon4278 [~dcrooksto@38.113.0.254] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:37:54 -!- bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:37:54 -!- nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-185-201-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:37:55 -!- hpd [~hpd@hpdeifel.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:37:55 -!- j0ni [~j0ni@tomos.lollyshouse.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:37:55 -!- jasom [~aidenn@ip70-191-80-19.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:40:29 -!- MusangKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:40:39 CatMtKing [~CatMtKing@ed-uluka.dyn.ucr.edu] has joined #lisp 20:40:59 s00pcan [~chris@108-208-64-149.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:03 inkjetunito [~hf999@unaffiliated/inkjetunit] has joined #lisp 20:41:18 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: Zzzz] 20:42:05 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.149.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 20:42:05 dsevilla [~user@66.Red-79-151-177.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:05 joneshf-work [~joneshf@mail.concordusapps.com] has joined #lisp 20:42:05 Oberon4278 [~dcrooksto@38.113.0.254] has joined #lisp 20:42:05 bananagram [~bot@c-76-30-158-226.hsd1.tx.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:05 nbouscal [~nbouscal@c-67-185-201-65.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:05 hpd [~hpd@hpdeifel.de] has joined #lisp 20:42:05 j0ni [~j0ni@tomos.lollyshouse.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:05 jasom [~aidenn@ip70-191-80-19.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:49 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-2-105.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:44:35 nug700 [~nug700@174-26-159-207.phnx.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:01 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:47:40 -!- Joreji [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:47:47 Joreji [~thomas@89.204.139.60] has joined #lisp 20:48:12 -!- jangle [~jimmy1984@136.160.167.31] has quit [Quit: jangle] 20:48:15 Joreji_ [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has joined #lisp 20:49:18 what are some of your favorite ways to do the inverse of CL-PPCRE:SPLIT? 20:49:36 format? 20:50:08 do you usually just use format directly, or define JOIN in terms of it? 20:50:16 is that just concatenating strings? 20:50:44 basically, but adding an optional delimiter between components 20:50:57 Of course if you mean what I think you mean then I wholeheartedly recommend SEPARATED-STRING-APPEND: http://quickutil.org/list?q=separated-string-append 20:51:39 why not SEPARATED-STRING-CONCATENATE? 20:52:16 -!- heuhheuhalways [~lilabe@static-50-43-53-200.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: bye] 20:52:25 stassats, some lisps have decided that STRING-APPEND is a thing, and it's not unreasonable, even though APPEND in Lisp is for lists. 20:52:40 I do not think STRING-APPEND is confusing or ambiguous at all. 20:52:56 why string then? 20:53:22 -!- drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:53:37 drmeister [~drmeister@S010610ddb1c81950.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:38 just separated-concatenate 20:53:46 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-170-146.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:54:16 are you suggesting for sequences in general, which follows the same sort of API as CONCATENATE? 20:54:20 yes 20:54:25 sure, maybe. If you write the code, I'll be happy to include it. :) 20:54:44 i won't be happy, since i don't get the idea behind quickutil 20:55:27 contributing doesn't necessarily mean you support the idea. If anything it means now a useful function exists in a place where someone could find it. 20:55:42 so someone like robot-beethoven doesn't have to rewrite it. 20:55:48 DrCode [~DrCode@gateway/tor-sasl/drcode] has joined #lisp 20:55:51 why would i contribute to something i don't use and don't support? 20:56:00 for the reason I said above. 20:56:02 -!- nha_ [~prefect@koln-5d8160d2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:56:36 supporting robot-beethoven! 20:56:58 i don't use robot-beethoven either 20:57:05 i'm more of robot-bach fan 20:57:47 *robot-beethoven* bows at mention of his robot-master 20:57:56 *jasom* just uses (format "~{~A~}") 20:58:00 -!- morphling [~stefan@gssn-5f755b66.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:58:25 stassats, already there must have been at least 10 instances of people in here asking how to write something, and someone suggesting how to go about writing it, as opposed to saying "it is already written, go get it here". 20:58:37 jasom: now, how do you make it use an arbitrary separator? 20:58:39 quick-quiz 20:58:40 unless for pedagogical reasons, I find the latter much more helpful than the former 20:59:19 stassats: I rarely need a non-constant separator 20:59:36 that's a no way to answer the quiz! 20:59:49 for a constant separator I use (format "~{~A~^ ~}") with space as the example separator here 21:00:47 for non-constant separator, I suppose I would use loop 21:01:35 can't you use the function format specifier 21:01:39 -!- knob [~knob@76.76.202.244] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:01:40 ~/f/ or whatever it is 21:01:51 where's fun in that? 21:04:12 most people seem to thing something like (format stream (format nil "~~{~~A~~^~A~~}" separator)) is bad 21:04:57 it is, what if the separator has a ~ 21:06:26 I've also seen people do something like (mapcar (lambda (x) (list x separator)) ...) to still use format, but that seems odd to me; you are working harder to get format to do what you want then to just do it manually with loop 21:07:01 -!- ahungry [~null@66.184.106.97] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:07:45 jasom: i'd use cl-interpol for the format-technique (format stream #?"~{~A~^$(separator)~}" strings), but it doesn't solve ~ in delimiters 21:08:09 Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:35 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@internet2.cznet.cz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:08:43 jason: out of curiosity, how would you use LOOP to do it? 21:09:00 clhs w-o-t-s 21:09:01 with-output-to-string: http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_w_out_.htm 21:09:40 -!- ph88 [5597cc14@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.151.204.20] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:10:22 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 21:12:52 the source code for exactly that was in the link I gave 21:13:18 ehu [ehu@ip167-22-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 21:15:18 -!- inkjetunito [~hf999@unaffiliated/inkjetunit] has quit [Quit: qQQq] 21:15:23 -!- sondr3 is now known as away_sondr3 21:16:37 -!- Sagane [~Sagane@177.100-226-89.dsl.completel.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:18:28 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:19:56 -!- barglfargl [~brglfrgl@66-168-203-39.dhcp.gsvl.ga.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:20:19 -!- devoutful06 [~devoutful@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:20:51 robot-beethoven: (with-output-to-string (s) (when list (loop for item on list do (write-string (car item) s) while (cdr item) do (write-string separator s))) 21:21:02 robot-beethoven: or something like that; I wrote it directly in IRC so it probably has bugs 21:21:52 why does it have car and cdr instead of for (car . cdr) on list? 21:22:05 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 21:22:37 -!- nialo [nialo@ool-44c53f01.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [] 21:22:45 stassats: because I didn't think of that at the moment; that is indeed a better solution 21:24:04 devoutful06 [~devoutful@c-67-182-147-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:43 like I said, I hardly ever need to do this; I typically know what the separator is and use a literal format string 21:25:10 francogrex [~user@218.97-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has joined #lisp 21:26:26 does anyone know of a good library interface for oracle dbms ? (clsql sucks because it relies on uffi which by itself sucks) 21:27:58 -!- Kruppe [~user@j2petkovich.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:29:01 doesn't seem like any RDBMS, except for postgres, are loved around here 21:29:04 -!- Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:29:16 Patzy [~something@lns-bzn-51f-81-56-151-137.adsl.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:26 *Xach* has been reasonably happy with CommonSQL's Oracle interface 21:29:59 where can i get it for SBCL? 21:31:16 Is a good idea (defun new-node (value &optional &key (left nil) (right nil)) os is it better to &allow-other-keys and search for those two specifically? 21:31:16 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-151-128.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:31:59 better just use :left or :right 21:32:08 (new-node value :left) 21:32:37 I fail to grap what you mean stassats 21:32:52 too bad 21:33:03 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@145-017.eduroam.rwth-aachen.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:34:03 :( I'm trying to use write a constructor to make an instance of either branch on leaf depending is there is another value 21:34:45 -!- kcj [~casey@unaffiliated/kcj] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:35:09 my answer still stands 21:35:27 but, i don't understand the question anymore 21:35:44 what's wrong with &key left right? 21:36:42 -!- runningskull is now known as zz_runningskull 21:37:51 CommonSQL ok but only for lispworks it seems 21:38:31 PuercoPop: so, what do you really want to do? 21:38:36 I want to be able to say (new-node 3) => (make-instance 'leaf :value 3) but if it s (new-node 3 :right 2) => (make-instance 'leaf :value 3 :left +empty-node+ :right 2). I'm not saying there is something wrong with your answer, probably there is something wrong with my understanding of common lisp. 21:39:56 I'm working through Okasaki's book, faking my way which dispatching on types instead of pattern matching. I want to have a unified interface for creating leaf or branches (a subclass of node) for the insertion of nodes. 21:40:40 does (defun new-node (value &key (left +empty-node+) (right +empty-node+)) (make-instance 'leaf :value value :left left :right right)) not work? 21:41:17 if it doesn't, then (defun new-node (value &rest args &key left right) (declare (ignore left right)) (apply #'make-instance 'leaf :value value args)) will 21:41:22 -!- boogie [~boogie@wsip-98-172-168-236.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:42:01 zRecursive [~czsq888@171.216.98.20] has joined #lisp 21:42:42 or your example is wrong it should be (make-instance 'leaf ...) and (make-instance 'branch ..)? 21:42:55 Bike [~Glossina@71-222-46-130.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:42:57 It doesn't due to the way I have created my classes: http://paste.lisp.org/display/137904 But not really sure if appropiate 21:44:13 So leaf has only elements. But when it makes less sense to create a +empty-node+ to dispatch with eql-specializer either. 21:44:57 -!- foreignFunction [~niksaak@ip-4761.sunline.net.ua] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:45:10 okay then, (defun new-node (value &rest args &key left right) (declare (ignore left right)) (apply #'make-instance (if args 'branch 'leaf) :value value args)) 21:45:29 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:47:21 I'm going to try it, thanks stassats! 21:47:28 -!- Joreji [~thomas@89.204.139.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:47:47 -!- quazimod1 [~quazimodo@c27-253-100-110.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:48:01 PuercoPop: or http://paste.lisp.org/display/137904#1 21:48:05 Kabaka [~Kabaka@botters/kabaka] has joined #lisp 21:48:07 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 21:48:07 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-222-46-130.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:48:13 Bike_ [~Glossina@71-222-46-130.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:16 (i'm going to exhaust all the possibilities of what you want sooner or later) 21:49:14 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 21:50:43 I am curious, what happens if left is used and we have asked the compiler to ginore it? Btw the last one looks like a perfect match! 21:50:56 anything happens 21:51:19 but in my example it's not used 21:53:56 *PuercoPop* nods 21:54:29 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 21:58:24 youlysses [~user@75-132-28-10.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:59:17 -!- AeroNotix [~xeno@aboq51.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:59:42 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@178.138.96.121] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:02:55 -!- fortitude [~mts@rrcs-24-97-165-124.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:03:48 -!- francogrex [~user@218.97-200-80.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:04:32 -!- doomlord [~doomlod@host86-145-105-238.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:04:43 -!- zz_runningskull is now known as runningskull 22:07:31 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.134.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:08:21 -!- Thra11 [~Thra11@87.115.247.39] has quit [Ping 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has quit [Excess Flood] 23:26:25 -!- sovn [~sovn@c-76-122-40-117.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #lisp 23:26:47 copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has joined #lisp 23:26:48 -!- copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:27:06 I remember there was a blog series about the Python compiler but I can't seem to find it 23:28:17 copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has joined #lisp 23:28:18 -!- copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:28:47 copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has joined #lisp 23:28:48 -!- copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:29:17 copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has joined #lisp 23:29:18 -!- copec [copec@schrodbox.unaen.org] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:29:32 -!- soz [~user@87.114.254.94] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:29:56 PuercoPop: maybe http://web.archive.org/web/20130703232925/http://insidelisp.blogspot.com/ (blog appears to have been removed) 23:30:38 -!- cdidd [~cdidd@176.14.36.221] has 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